IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-02-05

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blackthorneFor instance, Skype00:00
* lardman prepares for the abuse from GAN900 00:00
lardmanand others no doubt00:00
GAN900See, if you hadn't highlighted me I'd never have noticed.00:00
thomasjfoxlardman: I'll add a link from the wiki to TMO - better than nothing00:00
GAN900Now I'm going to read the scrollback. :P00:00
lardmanGAN900: :)00:01
lardmanthomasjfox: yep, how big is the file?00:01
lardmane.g. lines?00:01
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thomasjfoxlardman: 298 lines / 10 kb00:01
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lardmanbloody long lines then!00:01
dan2003thomasjfox: vibrate does work when call is ongoing :(00:01
dan2003thomasjfox: does/does not00:02
lardman10kb!? really?00:02
thomasjfoxlardman: Well, it contains documentation due to the lack of official documentation00:02
GAN900lardman, the armour just leads to more dementia.00:03
lardmanGAN900: :)00:03
DocScrutinizerdan2003: duh!00:03
blackthornelardman: So Ryan Giggs is the person of the year?00:03
lardmanGAN900: Just delays the effect of the head injuries, or allows you to keep playing when you would normally have given up I guess00:03
lardmanblackthorne: he's Welsh afaiu?00:04
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lardmanand he's a Soccer player, rubbish sport imnsho00:04
GAN900lardman, makes you think you're invicible, so harder hits, which leads to more brain damage.00:04
lardmanonly feel invicible once per game playing rugby00:04
blackthornelardman: here it is just football00:05
thomasjfoxdan2003: Do some dbus monitoring on the session/system bus, if you are lucky you'll catch the signal to generate the beep00:05
lardmanmy mother is an Aussie, so football has many meanings00:05
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lardmanand the camp game in which people fall over clutching their ankles doesn't really count00:06
lardmanperhaps it's the beer making me vocalise, but it's still how I feel :)00:07
blackthornelardman: I like an english player called Lampard and Gerard00:07
blackthorneI think they are english though00:07
lardmanI know the names, but really don't follow "football" at all00:07
blackthornedinner and concert time, leaving00:08
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slonopotamusso. any n8x0 users are still there?00:17
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* javispedro 's N810 is at this moment in a reboot cycle due to bad battery and bme's bug, hopefully will eventually snap out of it.00:18
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makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, DocScrutinizer  got it!! i was trying to connect from usb3 port used usb2 port and ssh just worked!00:25
makulkar_laptopthanks for all the help!00:25
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javispedroso, my stupid ISP does this every two years: 1) send a PR telling how much they care about IPv6 2) register a new domain like "$" or "ip6-its-time-$" 3) advertise lots of services on the domain (4to6, 6to4, get your free ipv6 router, you name it), 4) let it rot for a year, 5) rinse repeat00:34
slonopotamusmy grandma said they're out of ipv4 adresses00:34
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javispedrothat's the reason they've shortened the cycle today and went from 5 to 1 in a year instead of two.00:35
javispedrothey did not even let the previous domain expire00:36
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Loveable_rougethis IRC is strange01:56
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psycho_oreosmaybe you're strange01:56
Loveable_rougenot even sure i understand it lol01:56
arpirc is simple, clean and beatiful :)01:57
toresbeyou have to type in your credit card details in order to ask questions. They will be used for, er, age verification.01:57
Loveable_rouge@toresbe haha funny wasnt born yesterday !!01:58
villagernot yesterday? sounds like a good enough age verification01:59
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toresbegood enough for me02:00
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wazddamn, android on n900 is totally sick :)02:06
wazdWi-Fi is not working though :(02:06
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Sc0rpiusit seems that N900 weren't sold at this side of the world06:58
Sc0rpiusbecause when I'm awake, you all are sleeping06:58
Sc0rpiusand you all are talking here, I'm sleeping06:58
Sc0rpiusthis sucks06:58
Ken-YoungSc0rpius, Where are you?06:59
Ken-YoungWell, some of us up north are still awake.06:59
Sc0rpiusand it's 12:30 am here06:59
Ken-Young12:00 AM here.06:59
Sc0rpiusoh so you are in the east coast07:00
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Ken-YoungI didn't know there were any 1/2 hour from GMT timezones in the western hemisphere.07:00
Sc0rpiusyeah blame our stupid president07:00
Ken-YoungYes, Cambridge, MA, USA07:00
Sc0rpiuswe were GMT-4 before07:00
Sc0rpiusand he woke up one day and said: "when kids get awake is still dark out there"07:00
Sc0rpiusand he moved half an hour07:00
Ken-YoungMy clock has a snooze button for that.07:01
Sc0rpiusand now at 5:00 pm is dark07:01
Sc0rpiusfunny, but I guess kids can't be late for school07:02
Sc0rpiusanyway it didn't solve anything, now at 5:00 pm is dark07:02
Ken-YoungWhen I was a kid, I lived in Iowa, and the farmers protested against the establishment of Daylight Savings Time because they thought the extra hour of sunlight would hurt their crops.07:02
Sc0rpiuspeople are stupid like that. When the time was moved people thought the had to work half an hour more a day07:04
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Ken-YoungSc0rpius, By the way, thanks for the subsidized home heating oil.07:07
Sazpaimonso, I'm afraid of getting an N900 so close to the MWC07:08
Sazpaimonshould I be?07:08
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Well, there's a chance the first Meego phone will be introduced around the time of MWC.07:08
Sazpaimonindeed, but even then, the time between announcement and launch averages on like, 5 or 6 months07:09
Sazpaimon8 or 9 if you're nokia07:09
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Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Nokia *claims* they are trying to reduce the time between anouncement and availability.07:09
Sc0rpiusI though N900 was EOL already07:10
Sc0rpiusand only a few percentage of people in the planet, like us, are lucky to have one07:10
Ken-YoungSc0rpius, Well, you can still but new units on, for example, Amazon.07:10
Sazpaimonn900 EOL wasn't announced yet i believe07:11
Ken-YoungIf Noikia drops Meego in favor of Android or WM7, I'll immediately buy another N900.07:11
Sazpaimonthey just kind of abandoned the platform07:11
Ken-YoungThat's the Nokia way.07:12
Sazpaimon[00:09] <Ken-Young> Sazpaimon, Nokia *claims* they are trying to reduce the time between anouncement and availability.07:12
Sazpaimonyeah, the N8 sure shows that!07:12
Sc0rpiusNokia dropping Meego? now that would be stupid07:12
Sazpaimonnokia would never drop meego because that would be financial suicide for them07:12
Ken-YoungIt might be good in the short term, but I agree it would be terrible in the long term.07:13
Sazpaimonanyway, what's the concensus? should i snatch this N900 i can secure on ebay? or wait for MWC07:14
johnxSazpaimon, how much on ebay?07:14
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, All I can say is the hardware is a little old fashion these days, but I'm very glad I have mine, and if I lost it I'd replace it with another N900.07:14
johnxif the new one comes out in May and costs $550, will you be able to buy it at that price/time?07:15
Ken-YoungYou have to enjoy fiddling with the software, though.07:15
Sazpaimonthat's a good point07:15
Sazpaimononly new nokia device i could afford was the E7107:15
Sazpaimonand at the time i didnt even know it just launched07:15
Ken-YoungIt's nowhere near as smooth an ownership experience as iPhone or even Android.07:15
Sazpaimoni saw it at best buy, needed a phone, and snagged it07:15
Sc0rpiusE71 is a good phone07:15
SazpaimonSc0rpius, i still have mine :)07:16
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Are you familiar with linux, or interested in learning about it?07:16
SazpaimonKen-Young, I run 3 linux dedicated servers07:16
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Well, we'll check off that box then!07:16
Sazpaimoni know if there's a program I need I can apt-get -b source it if it isn't in the repo07:16
johnxKen-Young, not from the start, but once you get it working exactly how you want, the interactions are rather streamlined (typical linux-y situation :)07:17
Sazpaimoni'd prefer a portage system though, but compiling everyhthing on a phone is silly07:17
Sc0rpiusnobody does that07:17
Sc0rpiusunless you modify the software for a reason and anyway you don't compile it on the phone but somewhere else hehe07:17
Sazpaimonwell yeah there's that07:18
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Yes, I compile my N900 code on my linux laptop.   There's an SDK.07:18
Sazpaimoni actually messed with the SDK a few times07:18
Sazpaimoni ported gnash to the N90007:18
Sazpaimonit "works," but it's still gnash07:18
Sazpaimonstill, I wanted to see if I could get an open source flash player working07:18
Sazpaimongnash, by the way, has very poor flash 9 suppor07:19
Sc0rpiusI just implemented tree view in my Modest07:20
Ken-Youngjohnx I agree.07:20
Sazpaimonanyway, maemo isn't what's bothering me about the N900. It's the hardware07:20
Sc0rpiuswith collapsable/expandable subfolders07:20
Sc0rpiuswhat's wrong with the hardware07:20
johnxSc0rpius, the fact that it will be obsoleted whenever the N9 or whatever comes out07:21
Sazpaimonthe CPU is still great, even by today's standards. A 500Mhz OMAP cpu blows the N8's ARM11 out of the water any day07:21
Sc0rpius600 MHz07:21
Sazpaimonthe RAM is my biggest concern07:21
Ken-YoungThere are lots of reports about broken microUSB ports on the N900, but that's the only quality issue I'm aware of.07:21
Sc0rpiusyeah that's what you should worry: the USB port07:22
Sc0rpiusand maybe it's a little heavy07:22
Sc0rpiusand not having multitouch kinda sucks07:22
Sc0rpiuseverything else is fine07:22
SazpaimonSc0rpius, i own an E71, that's heavy07:22
Sazpaimonesepcially for such a tiny tiny phone07:22
Sc0rpiusthe N900 is heavier07:22
Sazpaimonthat's good, as long as it isn't bulky07:23
Sc0rpiusE71: 127 g, N900: 181g07:23
Sazpaimoni like knowing what pocket my phone is in without patting myself down07:23
Sc0rpiusit IS bulky07:23
johnxThe RAM can be a bit restricting sometimes depending on the situation07:23
Sc0rpiusit feels like a brick07:23
johnxsome apps are just RAM hogs07:23
johnxlike an *awesome* brick07:23
Sc0rpiusI still love it though07:23
Sazpaimoni kind of want to experiment with very high quality microsd cards as alternat swap space compared to the internal space07:23
Sazpaimonit might perform faster07:23
johnxit really is an "everything and the kitchen sink" phone07:23
Sc0rpiusit's way too powerful to even compare it with another phone07:23
Sc0rpiusit has to be compared with laptops07:23
Sazpaimoni havent looked at any internal shots of the phone. Is the RAM stacked on top of the CPU (or vice versa)07:24
Sc0rpiusno clue07:24
Sc0rpiusbut why would that be an issue07:24
johnxsame die I think07:24
Sazpaimonif it is it means upgrading the ram chips is pretty much completely out of the question07:24
johnxerrrr, nah. it's stacked Package-on-Package or something07:25
Sc0rpiusbattery life is what worries me, and I'm not sure if CSSU has someting to do with it 'cos I think it worsen it07:25
Sc0rpiusand flash updates07:25
Sazpaimonjohnx, eugh, i hate that07:25
johnxyeah. no upgrades. :)07:25
Sazpaimoni thought there might be a possibility of replacing the ram chip with something with the same schematic but with more space07:26
Sazpaimonnot gonna happen :/07:26
Sc0rpius256 MB is fine07:26
Sazpaimonmaybe my microsd as swap idea could work07:26
Sc0rpiusmost people do that, I do it07:26
Sc0rpiusbut not in the microsd07:26
Sc0rpiusin the internal flash memory07:26
Sc0rpius32 GB07:27
Sazpaimoni dont know the speed of the internal space, but i bet there are microsd cards that could be faster than it07:27
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, If you want to mess around with the chips, an Openmoko gt04 (new!) might be better for you.   It's based on the Beagle Board.07:27
Sc0rpiusI think internal is faster than a class 10 microsd external, but that's just me07:27
SazpaimonSc0rpius, class has nothing to do with random read/write speed07:27
Sazpaimonunfortunately class 10 cards can have very poor random access speeds07:28
Sazpaimonmicrosoft is pushing for microsd cards with very high quality random access speeds for their phones07:28
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Sazpaimonbecause cards sold today can fry on a windows phone due to how windows phone handles external space (it treats it as additional space to the internal memory)07:29
Sazpaimonthe key is cards with good random access speeds, that's why microsoft is doing the "certified for windows phone" microsd cards. I figure cards with that certification might work well as swap space on an N90007:29
Sazpaimoni've done some research and found a few class 6 cards that users claim work great in their windows phones07:30
Sazpaimonthat's of course if I get an N90007:31
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RobbieThe1stHey guys - Anyone here messed with Gimp on EasyDebian?07:41
luke-jrKen-Young: WHAT07:41
Ken-Youngluke-jr, What are you asking about?07:41
luke-jrOpenMoko new phone⁇07:41
Ken-Youngluke-jr, Not from the company.07:42
Ken-Youngluke-jr, There's a community effort that will plae a respun version of the Beagle Board in an Openmoko gt02 case, and use the original Openmoko display hardware.07:43
Ken-YoungI'll look for the link.07:43
luke-jrugh I missed out07:44
Ken-YoungI should have been saying gta04, not gt04.07:45
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Ken-Youngluke-jr, It should be even more of a geek wet dream than the Freerunner was.07:46
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SazpaimonKen-Young, except Openmoko cases are ugly08:02
Ken-YoungSazpaimon, Hey - the whole thing's gonna be ugly.   But it's extremely cool.08:03
Ken-Youngacellermonet, compass, gyroscope, altimeter...08:03
SazpaimonI would rather see someone make a beagle board that fits in a more contemporary case08:03
Sazpaimonyou know, like the N90008:03
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Ken-YoungSazpaimon, If you care how it looks, you're not the target audience.08:04
Ken-YoungTry finding another phone with expansion cables for peripherals and data collection.08:06
Ken-YoungAnd JTAG08:06
Ken-YoungTry finding another phone that you can order today, even though the manufacturer hasn't figured out how much RAM it will end up having.08:08
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johnxheh. well it wasn't a phone, but the pandora was like that :)08:13
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DocScrutinizertell you what - it's a brilliant plan to get their gta02 out of the shelf, those otherwise would collect dust forever. And hey, a 5$ ugly plastic case plus 60$ display for just 260$, that's a real bargain08:19
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Ken-YoungI wonder how many they still have on the shelf.08:20
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DocScrutinizerGoldelico prolly a dozen or two - "we" some thousands08:21
Ken-YoungWell, I still use my Freerunner - it's a very nice GPS unit, IMHO.08:22
johnxActually though, I'm not sure the lack of knowing the RAM size is that huge an issue. AFAIU, on the OMAP3 different pin-compatible packages with different amounts of memory are available, so it's not something that need major rework to change the memory size (hope I'm not too far off ...)08:22
Ken-Youngjohnx, Well, I plan on buying one if they ever really go on sale.08:23
jacekowskiyou would have to change xloader08:23
jacekowskinolo xloader08:24
jacekowskisigned part08:24
Ken-YoungI've got two gta02s and a gta01, so I might as well convert one.08:24
johnxjacekowski, errr, but this isn't for the N900 ...08:24
jacekowskias it's xloader that's setting up memory maps and stuff08:24
Ken-Youngjacekowski, Sorry, I'm off-topic.08:25
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DocScrutinizerKen-Young: when I cnnect all my gta02 to a beowulf they are way faster than gta04 :-P08:30
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, How many of them do you have, personally?08:30
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DocScrutinizerlast time I ztied to count them, It's been sth ~one dozen08:31
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: last time I tried to count them, It's been sth ~one dozen08:31
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, I'm jealous - do you still use any of them?08:32
DocScrutinizerdepends which pile of junk and wreck you count in or not :-P08:32
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Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Has anyone looked into trying to make an extremely secure software stack for the Freerunner - something with full volume encryption?08:34
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DocScrutinizersome 2 or 3 are even 850/1800/1900 - quite useless here08:35
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Ken-YoungMight be a viable niche product.08:35
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DocScrutinizerI fail to see the usecase and target user group08:38
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Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, Our marvelous department of Homeland Security has begun confiscating cell phone at the border.08:40
DocScrutinizerI guess the main usage will be for some openBB hackers for a long time still08:40
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johnxKen-Young, and they'll tell you to hand over the keys or stand in contempt of court08:40
DocScrutinizerlol, those print-out-the-internet fools08:41
Ken-Youngjohnx, It's not clear - the courts have not ruled uniformly about whether or not you can be forced to reveal keys.08:41
johnxTell me how it works out for you then :)08:42
Ken-Youngjohnx, And in any event,, a truly secure phone would allow you to have a separate hidden volume.08:43
DocScrutinizernobody can force you to reveal keys, as nobody can prove existence of data in a well done crypted virtual volume or stegano-file08:43
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DocScrutinizerlast time I checked, the cryptvolume solutions for linux did rather smart things like deleting with random bitnoise, and encoding both startpoint into volume and cypher key with the passphrase, so you can have arbitrary number of independent "volumes" in one physical volume, and nobody can tell if there's any data at all in it08:47
johnxI assume it also has a way for you to prove the key for a 'clean' volume which may appear to be the entire volume?08:47
DocScrutinizernow embed this file into a (number of) .bmp file(s) and here you are08:48
Ken-Youngjohnx, Yes, you can do that.08:48
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DocScrutinizerjohnx: that's the idea08:48
DocScrutinizerbut then they will torture or jail you until you give out the 2nd, 3rd, and 42nd passphrase, so it's better to hide the data completely, inside e.g .bmp08:50
DocScrutinizersee steganography08:50
johnxhilariously, if you give out the keys for the data in the .bmp files as well, they may hold and torture you for keys you don't have :)08:50
johnxdouble edged sword ;)08:51
johnxprotip: don't get detained08:51
DocScrutinizerthat's the meaning in my first statement about 42nd passphrase08:51
johnxah, parsed that as 4th :)08:51
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DocScrutinizerbut the idiots they obviously are, they never will be able to even think about a set of family snapshots stored as .bmp or .png actually holds hidden info08:53
johnxunless there's an episode of CSI like that ;)08:53
DocScrutinizerjust don't publish the original unstegano'ed pictures on your facebook site :-P08:53
DocScrutinizerotherwise they could cmp and find "oops they differ"08:54
Ken-YoungI take a lot of pictures of dirty white walls...08:54
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johnxKen-Young, How fascinating. I take pictures of analog static on televisions :)08:55
DocScrutinizerNB a well embedded stegano info isn't detectable, but also is at least a bloat up of file size by factor 10, compared to netto hidden info08:56
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DocScrutinizerwell, you could get away with factor 4 even. like using the lower bits of 5/6/5 in a 8/8/8 bmp format08:59
RST38hjohnx: you are not taking videos of that static?08:59
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RST38hDoc: Sorry, but if it blows up the file size by x10, how is it undetectable?09:00
johnxRST38h, just to mess with services that have to transcode video :)09:00
RST38hevil =)09:00
DocScrutinizerRST38h: the idea is to replace least significant bits of a real bmp with the split secret data09:01
DocScrutinizerso you're adding some rather unspectacular noise to an arbitrary picture09:01
RobbieThe1stWhich is perfectly believable, these days09:02
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RobbieThe1stY'know, one thing you could easily do - take your data, compress/encrypt it, and name it to a .dll or .so. Most people wouldn't give it a second thought09:03
RobbieThe1stProvided it's in the right folder09:03
johnxC:\My Documents\Bomb plans.dll09:04
RST38hDoc: Yes but if it is 10 times bigger than normal then somethign is wrong, isn't it?09:04
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RST38h"Firefox 4.0 Beta 4 has been released for Android and Maemo - you can download it from this page. This release is the fastest performing Firefox 4 Beta for mobile yet. You will notice faster start-up, page load times and responsiveness to panning and zooming."09:07
RST38hWhy don't I see any of these improvements?09:07
johnxbecause 5% faster than slow is still slow09:07
TermanaNationStates... do I give more spending money to the Department of Defence or give in to the protesters outside my Parliament House that wish to "Disarm now!"?09:08
RST38hIt actually feels slower than before09:08
derfBecause of the checkered backround for areas that aren't rendered yet.09:08
RST38hTermana: I suggest you just buy more bear.09:08
RST38hs/bear/beer mhm09:08
TermanaRST38h, no no, I think you were right09:09
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TermanaMore bear, would protect the nation just fine09:09
RST38hderf: It takes 40+ seconds just to start up09:09
johnxmore bears are the answer to national self defense09:09
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RST38hderf: and hangs for up to 5 seconds at a time when scrolling, checkered background or not09:09
derfI certainly don't remember that the last time I used a recentl build on an N900.09:10
derfIt takes like 3 or 4 second to start on Android.09:10
johnxto be fair, microb gets to run in the background all the time09:10
RST38hjohnx: Yea, but 40 seconds?09:10
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RST38hjohnx: And you pretty much cannot scroll in Firefox, with these hangups09:11
johnxam playing with it now09:11
RST38hTakes 40+ seconds to load and render a web page too09:11
johnxwith just mediaplaye rrunning it seems to take about 10-20s to start09:11
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: (if it is 10 times bigger than normal) you don't get it. The covertext is of course same size it's always been. It just holds hidden info (around 1..20%) in least significant bits, or other uninteresting parts so the original picture, music, whatever covertext LOOKS unaltered09:11
RST38hI have Messages, Phone, and XTerm running09:11
RST38hDoc: Ah ok09:12
RST38hDoc: So, x10 thing was in relation to the efficiency? I.e. you need Nx10 image to store text of size S?09:12
RST38hMaybe we should all switch to Android or something...09:13
johnxRST38h, you first09:14
johnxI'd switch to webos before android, honestly09:14
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RST38hjohnx: How about the latest crackberry devices? =)09:15
johnxugh. I'd easily switch to N800+dumbphone first09:16
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johnxor zaurus with console-only PIM+motorola startac (sp?)09:16
RST38h"...Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint."09:17
RST38hjohnx: hell, where would you finda functioning zaurus?09:17
johnxtwo on my desk :P09:17
TermanaRST38h, ebay09:18
johnxI almost wish I picked up an extra last time I saw some in a store ...09:18
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RST38hjohnx: the one I have seen was pretty beaten =)09:19
johnxmine are too :) Only real problems are battery related09:19
johnxand lack of recent kernel in the case of the SL-550009:19
TermanaWhat do you guys think of the OQO? Besides it's bulkyness obviously09:20
RST38hIt is a PC.09:20
TermanaI could see myself picking up one of those... and RUNNING MINIX09:20
johnxDidn't they go bankrupt?09:20
Termanajohnx, sure, but you can still find some around, especially on ebay09:20
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johnxRST38h, If I wanted another one, I'd just stop by here;
TermanaOr, 11 on ebay at the moment to be precise09:21
RST38hjohnx: Instant gadget orgasm.09:22
johnxThat was an awesome shop :)09:22
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DocScrutinizerakihabara at night is so weird09:32
DocScrutinizerno cars, and gibberish signs painted on the road09:33
johnxAh, on sunday they used to close the street09:33
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johnxand yeah, I never did end up driving there ... so I still have no clue WTF some of the road signs mean09:34
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wazd__DocScrutinizer: heya10:31
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n900-spacehey all10:53
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n900-spacecan anyone tell me if there is a way to flash n900 even if the "keep pressing u key while connecting the usb cable to the n900 and the computer" doesnt work?10:57
n900-spaceif "u" key doesnt not result in the small usb icon on the top right10:57
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wazdn900-space: you should press and hold :)11:00
wazduntill it appears11:00
n900-spaceyes but its not working :(11:00
n900-spaceit never does, not for the last 3 days !!11:00
wazdhmm, let me check11:00
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n900-spaceit gives steady yellow light, a dim nokia screen shows up and nothing, it restarts after few seconds11:01
n900-spaceI wanna know onw thing11:01
n900-spacethe flasher document shows a "--usb-device" option, it says "Specify USB device to use (bus:device address)"11:02
wazdso, you are holding "u" and plugging n900 in?11:03
wazdcause that definitely works for me :)11:04
n900-spaceyea i know11:04
n900-spaceit has always worked11:04
n900-spacebut not now11:04
n900-spaceits messed up11:04
n900-spacei installed meego and things got messed up11:04
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n900-spacenow half the things of maemo r flashed and half are not :$11:05
n900-spaceand i'm sure its not the battery drain problem as well11:05
wazdsorry, then you need smarter guy than me :(11:05
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n900-spacecuz when the device is off, and i press and hold power button, the bright white light comes up after which the whitescreen with nokia logo comes up11:06
n900-spaceseems like everyone is away11:06
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Sicelon900-space: can you please try to search the irc logs... your problem has been discussed before11:20
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Sicelo(just a pity that i don't really remember how it was solved, but all I remember is that it is possible to flash without the U key)11:21
n900-spaceok cool Sicelo , i will search11:21
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Siceloand if your device is really bricked, you may want to search for NOLO as well in the logs11:24
Siceloyou will probably also find Jebba's work useful,
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DocScrutinizermeh, drive-by askers11:44
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover11:44
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DocScrutinizernever try flashing if your battery isn't COMPLETELY charged. If battery gets too low to convince NOLO entering flashing mode (USB icon on holding 'u'), and your system (as in OS, maemo) is not correctly working to charge up the battery, you're cought in a deadlock11:46
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DocScrutinizeronly (end user) solution: get a freshly charged battery, by whatever means. Thi smight involve buying an external charger, buying a new battery, or charging the battery in a compatible Nokia phone (see
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DocScrutinizernota bene ~flatbatrecover DOES NOT work when device doesn't correctly boot up into maemo!12:01
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alteregoUrgh, my brain12:13
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RST38halterego: more drugs?12:13
alteregoOr non compatible phone DocScrutinizer12:13
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alteregoI charged it in an N81012:13
alteregoRST38h: yeah, alcohol.12:13
DocScrutinizeralterego: might work, when you're not too lefthanded12:14
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DocScrutinizeralterego: users running into flat bat deadlock probably aren't hardcore maemo addicts though, so it's not likely they got a "non-compatible" device that actually could be used to charge the BL-5J12:16
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DocScrutinizeranyway, for completeness' sake:
pupnikthose are the good phones12:19
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pupnikdoes nokia have a more powerful battery?12:19
* alterego wonders if his download rate is being killed by IO speed.12:19
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: to replace bl-5j? nope12:20
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DocScrutinizerwhatever, seems neither n900-space nor Sicelo (for blaming him for broken link) are here, so never mind12:21
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VenemoMohammadAG: ping12:22
DocScrutinizerwhen one of them re-joins, you might want to point them to
DocScrutinizermoo lardman|gone12:24
DocScrutinizero/ Venemo12:24
Venemohi DocScrutinizer :)12:25
RST38hmoo wazd12:25
RST38h(in case you are alive)12:25
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keriopupnik: buy a MUGEN battery12:28
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pupniki bought a 3g card for my thinkpad tablet12:29
pupniknow i need power :)12:29
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DocScrutinizerMOAA POWAAA12:30
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mc_teoim getting a SIM error12:32
mc_teocan someone have a look at my dmesg output?12:32
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DocScrutinizererr, is this a sequel?12:32
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mc_teoa sequel as in happened before?12:33
mc_teothen no12:33
mc_teois the dmesg log12:34
pupnikDocScrutinizer: how come i don't see more people with modified battery packs for their laptops?  from what i've read, you can hook up cells (same type) in parallel12:34
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: you actually can. Make sure they are all charged to same level (I.E. full) prior to doing so12:35
lardmanpupnik: heavy12:35
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Venemoachipa: ping12:35
lardmanand there are plugs everywhere these days12:35
lardmansockets even12:35
DocScrutinizerand steampunk12:35
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Venemoachipa: why are the links broken on ?12:36
lardmansteampunk everywhere? :)12:36
Venemoachipa: see
pupniki wonder if you could build a portable laptop battery charger that was placed under the feet (desk, coffeetable) and pumped/driven by user12:36
DocScrutinizermc_teo: sequel as in
pupnikhowever generating even 10w power with legs is noticeable work12:37
lardmanI read an article about piezo fabrics in New Scientist a while back iirc12:38
DocScrutinizerpupnik: SpeedEvil is planning a similar dynamo device12:39
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: well i get like a big error, saying like all emergency calls are disabled, etc and a reboot might fix it12:39
mc_teo10 reboots later, no joy12:39
DocScrutinizerumm, lemme check the pastie12:39
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DocScrutinizernothing in dmesg12:41
DocScrutinizertry removing your SIM and see if then emergency calls are enabled12:42
mc_teorighto, brb12:43
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mc_teoDocScrutinizer: just tried that12:55
mc_teosame error, even with SIM card out12:55
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mc_teotakes unusually long time to reboot too12:55
DocScrutinizerreflash cmt12:55
lcukx200damn autobuilder12:56
DocScrutinizeri.e reflash :-D12:56
mc_teoemmc too?12:56
mc_teoand to pr1.3?12:57
DocScrutinizeryep, international version. US version is notorious to create issues with cmt12:57
mc_teoi am from ireland12:58
mc_teoi got it here12:58
DocScrutinizerhm, ok then :-D12:58
mc_teoso it could be uk version?12:58
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DocScrutinizerI'd use global version12:58
alteregoI'm in the UK and I always use global version ..12:59
mc_teoand should i like back up all my stuff, like applications, etc, or would this replicate the error12:59
DocScrutinizernobody ever found a difference not to mention a reason for UK / US / foo version12:59
alteregoYou should always back stuff up.12:59
alteregoIs there even a UK pr1.3?12:59
alteregoI thought they stopped the UK variant ..12:59
mc_teoi think so13:00
DocScrutinizermc_teo: you should backup and restore, but test prior to restore13:00
mc_teoi read something on it earlier13:00
lcukx200alterego, \o13:00
* lcukx200 waits for autobuilder to know whether it worked13:00
mc_teowould my /home/user/* be safe?13:00
alteregoHey lcukx200 :)13:00
Venemomc_teo: make a backup13:00
mc_teoor should i move that to MyDocs?13:01
lcukx200if a build on autobuilder FAILS13:01
mc_teoits a lot of stuff13:01
lcukx200can I up a new version with same number?13:01
lcukx200I kinda like the one I am using13:01
alteregolcukx200: I'd increment a packaging version number like: 1.0.0-113:01
ShadowJK/home/user isn't safe13:01
alteregoThe 1.0.0-213:02
lcukx200alterego, I always bump package version13:02
Venemolcukx200: you can upload a fix with the same version, yes13:02
lcukx200I am just seeing13:02
Venemolcukx200: but if it succeeded, then you must increment the version number13:02
lcukx200yes of course13:02
lcukx200published etc13:02
alteregoNothing is ever safe :)13:02
DocScrutinizermc_teo: it's not explicitly erased on flashing rootfs, but it's not 'safe' as in 'safe backup storage'13:03
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: creating a copy of complete /home/user (minus the MyDocs fs of course) is a good idea anyway13:05
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DocScrutinizermc_teo: if you want to do even more, you can use backupmenu "app" to create a full logical image of / and /home13:06
alteregoAlways good to make regular backups, you never know what may happen.13:07
alteregoFlashing is one good reason, but so is using your phone, you may drop it in a puddle tomorrow etc ..13:07
DocScrutinizerheh, I got a cron job on my PC, to rsync13:07
alterego(I hear of this all the time, people completely breaking their phones then bitching when Nokia Care wont retrieve their data.)13:08
alteregoDocScrutinizer: lazy :P13:08
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SpeedEvilpupnik: Planning a similar device may be a bit strong.13:08
SpeedEvilpupnik: I assume you're aware of car foot-pumps?13:08
lcukx200now I have not tested this13:08
lcukx200but if I push 2 interdependent packages to autobuilder without waiting for building will they both work13:09
pupniknope SpeedEvil13:09
lcukx200(assuming code has no bugs)13:09
pupnikwhat are those for13:09
SpeedEvilpupnik: Say 40Kg*10cm = 40J. Once every second - going some - is 40W. Optimistically, you might get 30W out13:09
DocScrutinizerfor inflatng tires13:09
pupnikohhh ok13:09
pupnikyeah but sitting at a desk means only a couple kg on each foot13:10
SpeedEvilpupnik: Indeed13:10
pupnikmaybe the pump could be placed under the butt of the user :)13:10
SpeedEvilpupnik: Basically - 40W - sustained in any manner - is moderately hard work.13:10
SpeedEvilpupnik: It has to involve large movements of big muscles.13:11
DocScrutinizeryou bet13:11
pupniki got my lappy down to about 10watts13:11
pupnikand that still seems a bit much13:11
pupnikbut sometimes i 'sewing machine' my legs (bouncing them up and down)13:11
pupnikseems like usable energy13:11
SpeedEvilpupnik: that's not quite what it seems.13:11
pupnikthat's resonant yes13:11
SpeedEvilpupnik: notice that when you're doing that, it's ...13:12
SpeedEvilso the power you might expect is divided by Q13:12
pupniki didn't think13:12
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SpeedEvilThe 'least bad' highish power output you can do is on a cycle.13:12
RobbieThe1stHm... Anyone know stuff about RTMPdumping and grabbing flash video streams?13:13
SpeedEvilBut that's pretty much required to be quite large.13:13
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: som13:13
pupnikSpeedEvil: how about a flat device with two coasting pads for your feet, and you push them back and forth on the floor?13:13
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I use get_iplayer to grab BBC streams, and also rtmpproxy to grab flash streams when played by the browser.13:13
pupnikforward and backward, alternating13:13
SpeedEvilpupnik: Not impossible, again. It's not going to be easy.13:14
SpeedEvilpupnik: mechanically annoying too, as you pretty much need the base to be as large as the slide13:14
pupniki kind of like that one13:14
RobbieThe1stAlright. I saw this little video on Wired, and decided to download it:
DocScrutinizerlet's face it: 1 or 2W are easy, 10 and up real hard work13:14
SpeedEvilI was hoping to make a footpump class device that folded up pretty much into a n900 shape and size.13:14
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SpeedEvil(though not weight)13:15
SpeedEvilAnd that was able to charge a n900 in 100 steps or so.13:15
RobbieThe1stIt's apparently using 'jwplayer', and has a config file of which links to
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SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I never worked out how to do this.13:15
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: It seemed too hard, and rtmpproxy just worked13:16
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SpeedEvilI mean rtmpsuck13:16
SpeedEvilWith the iptables wrapper13:16
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RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: Hm, how do you use rtmpsuck again?13:22
RobbieThe1stI've got it, but I can't find any instructions13:22
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SpeedEviliptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 1935 -m owner \! --uid-owner proxy \13:22
SpeedEvil -j REDIRECT13:22
SpeedEvil./rtmpsuck --debug13:22
RobbieThe1stJust run that as a command?13:22
SpeedEvilWith rtmpsuck setuid to 'proxy'13:22
SpeedEvilyou probably don't actually need the --debug13:23
* lcukx200 paces13:23
SpeedEvilIt's documented in the README in the rtmpdump source13:24
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lcukx200at the bottom of the build log from autobuilder13:25
lcukx200for diablo, it had:13:26
lcukx200[2011-02-05 13:20:57] liqbook 0.1.0 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository13:26
lcukx200but that line is missing from the fremantle one :S13:26
Venemocould someone tell me the output of 'dpkg -l | grep libqt4' on an N810?13:26
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SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: you possibly won't also have the right iptables modules fot that to work13:27
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pupnikknow of any stealth cameras that fit in a power socket?
RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: It actually -did- work. I'm absolutely amazed13:30
infobotrumour has it, flashing is
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lardman someone doing what I was talking about yesterday13:31
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lardmanusing OpenGL on-device for doing processing rather than graphics stuff13:32
pupnikvery neat, lardman13:32
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lardmanthough having an OpenCL impl would be better13:34
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SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: Great!13:34
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: It would be awesome if it could also spit out what it understood of the negotiation, so you could point rtmpdump to it seperately13:35
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: I want to do a rtmpproxy that transcodes to a lower bandwidth - but I don't have the energy.13:35
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RobbieThe1stWhy'd you want -lower- bandwidth?13:36
RobbieThe1stI mean, most internet streams are low enough already :\13:36
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: My connection sometimes goes down to 160K.13:36
SpeedEvilAt these times, I would like at least audio of some video streams, with maybe a bit of picture, even if I can't get good video.13:37
RobbieThe1stSo you'd run the proxy on a remotely hosted machine?13:37
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: yes.13:37
RobbieThe1stThat does make sense13:37
SpeedEvilAlso good for mobile use of course. In many cases you don't actually need even 240p video, if you're watching video on the train.13:38
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: i have nitdroid installed with multiboot, i presume this will erase it too?13:39
Venemowhat is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and13:43
Venemowhat is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and diablo?13:43
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RST38hJaaksi posted the first message from HP at his blog13:49
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mc_teojust finished flashing13:56
mc_teostill taking a while to boot, therefore i am not too optimistic13:56
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VenemoRST38h: it is the second one actually13:57
MohammadAGwho has a USB 3G modem here?13:58
mc_teoi have it connected to a wireless router, though13:59
alteregoMohammadAG: does two N900s count?13:59
MohammadAGI tried the sim of one in the N900 and it connects to the internet without problems14:00
MohammadAGso why do people want h-e-n drivers for them?14:00
mc_teoive never had a problem14:01
mc_teoif dont want to use laptop with 3g modem14:01
mc_teoi just swap sims, and it works grand14:01
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Some providers lock the SIM.14:01
MohammadAGbut why use a 3G modem on the N900?14:01
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Also, you can't recieve calls on the n900 if you do that.14:01
mc_teoDocScrutinizer: well my SIM works after rebooting, thanks14:02
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, how come?14:02
mc_teolol, greeting by a nokia text14:02
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Because the new SIM hasn't got the same number.14:02
mc_teosince your using 3g modems sim, MohammadAG, rather than regular14:03
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: And in at least one of my SIMs cases, it's only data, no SMS or voice.14:03
SpeedEvilWell - it will do inbound SMS14:03
MohammadAGso 3G modem sims differ?14:03
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: no.14:03
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: different mobile accounts differ.14:03
mc_teoi wouldnt think they differ, just the mobile provider has them marked as data-only14:04
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: They may not offer various services, or be extremely expensive for some, or be locked to one 'phone'14:04
MohammadAGone more question, do two 3G devices affect each other?14:04
mc_teoand will charge tons if used for sms or calls14:04
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: yes, but not much.14:04
MohammadAGI have the N900 and the modem close to each other and they're both connected to 3G14:04
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: if they are right next to each other, and active, you may get some interference.14:05
SpeedEvilIn some modes14:05
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mc_teohaving to flash my phone before breakfast, not the best start to the morning14:05
Venemoso MohammadAG, if I have a main SIM whose phone number everyone knows but I don't have a data plan on it and I have a 3G modem with a SIM which has a data plan but doesn't have a phone plan, then if I swap SIM cards, noone will be able to call me.14:05
MohammadAGVenemo, call diverting :P14:06
VenemoMohammadAG: call diverting also costs money.14:06
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: My mobile data SIM does not actually support voice calls - at all.14:06
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mc_teohmm, when did the n900 get sound effects?14:06
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: so I can't even in principle redirect.14:06
SpeedEvilmc_teo: ages ago14:07
Venemomc_teo: it always had them14:07
mc_teopre pr1.2?14:07
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SpeedEvilmc_teo: The noise when you plug it in, the haptic noise, the explosion in a cymbal factory of battery run out.14:07
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SpeedEvilI think even in PR1.l014:07
Sc0rpius"Enable system sounds" in Settings14:07
Sc0rpiusin profile settings14:07
Sc0rpiussince the phone exists it has that option14:08
mc_teoi flashed pr1.2 and ota to pr1.3 when they first came out, and have never heard them14:08
mc_teoperhaps i had them muted14:08
MohammadAGThe N8 inhertied the battery low and battery empty sounds from the N90014:08
MohammadAGthough battery empty doesn't stutter on the N814:09
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VenemoMohammadAG: it doesn't stutter on my N900 either14:24
MohammadAGVenemo, it stutters on all N900's I've seen14:24
MohammadAGthe multiple beeps at the end of it14:24
MohammadAGthey're only 3, they seem like 9 or something on the N90014:24
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achipaVenemo: thx for the note - will check with the webteam on monday14:51
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Venemoachipa: thx14:52
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mc_teonot the same error15:20
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mc_teobut the sim keeps... i dont know how to describe it15:20
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mc_teoits like it logouts every so often15:20
mc_teoive had trouble before with this sim card15:21
mc_teomy old phone was a sony ericsson w810i15:21
mc_teowhich had a sim holder, where you needed to slide it out15:21
mc_teoit seemed a guarenteed way to break the sim card15:22
mc_teoso perhaps i damaged it there15:22
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ShadowJKI had a problem where I got the crossed out sim icon15:24
frits_I'm experiencing (very) distorted phone calls. I'm running kernel-power (not overclocked). I RMA'd my phone a while ago because of this, but it wasn't fixed when it came back (although they told me they "replaced some parts"). It seems that the distortion happens almost always while connected to a 3G network and frequently while connected to a 2G network. Even the ringing itself when calling someone is distorted and the person I'm calling with is hearing me15:25
frits_(very) distorted as well. Could someone help me with this? Or should I RMA the phone again :( ?15:25
ShadowJKand also notification about all telephony disabled15:25
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isakhello, is it possible to merge conversations from a backup ?15:26
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SpeedEvilfrits_: The mic is distorted, or the speakers?15:32
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mc_teoShadowJK: yes? did you resolve it?15:36
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mc_teoif so how/15:38
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ShadowJKno I tried with several different sim cards15:38
ShadowJKsame thing15:38
ShadowJKso I sent it to nokia for repairä15:39
ShadowJKstill waiting on it to come back15:39
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SpeedEvil - neat. Code deobfuscation by optimisation.15:43
SpeedEvilBasically, automatically eliminate dead paths.15:43
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jacekowskiis there any way to stream N900 camera video to interweb16:03
jacekowskito multiple people16:03
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SpeedEvilIt'd be lovely if flash knew how to work the camera.16:04
SpeedEvilI assume you mean some nice way, not a hack involving mencoder, and netpipes?16:05
frits_SpeedEvil: I'm sorry, I didn't read your respons (timed out). Both are distorted16:06
frits_SpeedEvil: Though I'd check the logs if someone replied and saw you did :)16:07
SpeedEvilfrits_: Does recording auio, or playing back audio suffer from the same distortion?16:07
frits_SpeedEvil: No, only phone calls16:07
SpeedEvilhave you tried recording audio?16:07
frits_Not yet, I'll try16:08
frits_The distortion seems random, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. Also, sometimes both me and the other person are distorted and the other time just one of us16:09
frits_I'm really thinking it is some HW problem, but I hate to RMA it again for obvious reasons16:09
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SpeedEvilI'd try seeing if same issue hits with SIP. Does it happen often?16:10
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infobotrma is, like, Return Materials Authorisation, or the process you go through when you want to return a dead part to a manufacturer in exchange for a new one16:10
frits_SIP? You mean stuff like Skype etc? If so, I'm not subscribed to any of those services :-/16:11
frits_It happens almost alwasy while connected to a 3G network and less frequently while connected to a 2G network (although still often)16:12
BCMMfrits_: skype doesn't use SIP16:13
BCMMfrits_: skype has a propriatary protocol of it's own16:13
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infobotsip is probably Session Initiation Protocol, (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP!16:14
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frits_BCMM: don't know what SIP mean to be honest, I only make 'regular phone calls?16:15
frits_To me it looks like something goes wrong decoding/encoding the phone signal when calling, but I ain't no expert on that16:16
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frits_I got to go now. I'll install recaller and see what it records when calling. I hope I'll get wiser on this issue and if not, I guess I'll have to say goodbey to my phone for a while again. Anyway, thank you for your help16:25
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moinmoin17:44
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RST38hmourning javispedro17:48
RST38hseen a blog post by Ari Jaaksi about how happy he is at HP?17:48
* javispedro googles17:49
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javispedroheh, yet another os poll =)17:50
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* GAN900 facepalms.17:51
GAN900This is gonna be a long Saturday.17:51
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RST38hGAN: Something wrong?17:51
javispedronot for me, I'd _wish_ it was a long Saturday ;)17:51
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RST38hWell, my Saturday is almost over, so a bit late for wishing17:52
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* javispedro laughs slightly at the ari's blog trolls
RST38hsome sad shit is being pointlessly unhappy, indeed.17:53
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* javispedro now finds a proper use for the lenovo: wall mount it.17:55
GAN900RST38h, cosmos are out of alignment again17:55
RST38hjavispedro: on the inside of a restroom door.17:56
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RST38hGAN: the usual then17:57
DocScrutinizerwho is Ari Jaaksi?17:58
javispedroRST38h: running windows media center, on a restroom. brilliant!!17:58
GAN900DocScrutinizer, really?17:59
RST38hjavis: the lenovo can do windows media center? hmmm17:59
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DocScrutinizerjust another Nokia victim18:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i've seen meego posters at fosdem18:00
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javispedroRST38h: it can if you can stand the choppy framerates18:01
* DocScrutinizer waiting for the point18:01
javispedrofor some reason 720p videos play better than the UI.18:01
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hw gfx accel?18:02
javispedronope, the card only does mpeg218:02
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javispedroI guess it's because the UI is written in .NET =)18:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: no maemo posters18:04
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: == more people care about meego18:04
DocScrutinizerit's just we don't care about people :-P18:04
* DocScrutinizer is a late adopter by nature - so doesn't give a flying F about random hype for future developments18:06
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DocScrutinizerI happily stay with desktop linux version of 2008, until some shit *forces* me to upgrade, which is always a PITA day (err week, month) in my life18:08
DocScrutinizerI got 2 N900, one's running PR1.1 with PK47, the other happily works on PR1.2 as my daily phone18:09
DocScrutinizerpowerkernel with uBoot, v4718:09
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DocScrutinizerI'm NOT eager to get a working meego version eventually, finally. Probably final meego sucks same way the very first mickey mouse webpages sucked18:12
johnxever the optimist :)18:13
DocScrutinizerand all I hear of facts reported about meego UI seems to support that notion18:13
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RST38hHey, don't put down the upcoming meego ui18:14
DocScrutinizers/very first micke mouse/ very first mickey-mousey meego/18:14
RST38hI am sure the best UX engineers from Nokia are designing it as we speak18:14
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DocScrutinizerI bet the dresscode in this workgroup is similar to that of disneyland :-P18:15
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Venemoalterego: you lied to me :P18:15
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Venemoalterego: ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); makes it actually slower.18:16
johnxIsnt someone trying to forward port the Maemo 5 window management to Meego?18:16
RST38hDoc:I am sure you mean it in a good, well-natured way!18:16
* RST38h is being positive tonight18:16
Venemojohnx: if you mean hildon-desktop, then yes, smoku and I are18:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: I am well aware Nokia needs to address the *young* audience18:17
Venemoalterego: and I'm not sure if this entire QGraphicsView thing made it any faster at all.18:17
DocScrutinizerthose that never in their life seen a decent desktop18:17
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johnxVenemo, ah, keen. A lot of us might be relying on that depending on that :)18:17
RST38hDoc: Of course!18:17
Venemojohnx: 'that' being what?18:18
DocScrutinizerI'm growing gray and grumpy, and am happy with diablo hildon18:18
johnxthe forwared-ported hildon-desktop18:18
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Venemookay johnx :)18:18
johnxin case the 'native' Meego UI ends up being a regression18:18
DocScrutinizerjohnx: yo da man!!18:19
RST38hjohnx: You will need gtk+ libs then, too18:19
johnxerrr, s/depending/wishing you the best and relying on your work/g18:20
johnxdon't get the wrong idea :)18:20
johnxalso: good morning18:20
DocScrutinizermeego UI *is* a regression by definition18:21
DocScrutinizerI heard...18:21
DocScrutinizersimplified to FUBAR18:22
DocScrutinizeraka Mickey Mouse!!!18:22
RST38hSo, could you give a URL of the definition?18:23
DocScrutinizerand honestly, this goes together well with parts of the core OS systems I looked at18:23
DocScrutinizerRST38h: this definition is kept in a vitrine at home of one of the 4 attendants of that legendary pub meeting18:24
VenemoDocScrutinizer: which systems?18:24
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DocScrutinizerit's the paper towel they scribbled meego foundation on18:24
DocScrutinizerVenemo: e.g sensorfw18:25
DocScrutinizers/vitrine/glass showcase/18:27
Venemookay, I don't get this.18:28
Venemowhy is my app slower with hw acceleration enabled than without it?18:28
DocScrutinizerglamo effect?18:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer: glamo?18:28
infobotsomebody said glamo was, or
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DocScrutinizer(a very poorly built and poorly integrated gfx chip of OM Freerunner)18:29
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DocScrutinizeroverhead to operate the sparse incomplete gfx accel was higher than doing same cmpletely in sw18:30
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Venemowell I can tell that it is indeed hw accelerated as the CPU usage is 018:31
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DocScrutinizeri.e. there's no use in doing one operation on the gfx card, if for the next operation on same dataset you need to transfer everything back to main menory18:31
johnxWell that's good in the long run anyways18:31
Venemohowever the puzzle pieces' movement became a lot slower and clumsy :(18:31
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DocScrutinizersounds exactly like glamo effect18:32
VenemoDocScrutinizer: yeah, but lots of more advanced apps than mine can run ot it smoothly18:33
VenemoDocScrutinizer: so the problem must be with my app18:33
DocScrutinizermaybe with your type of gfx operations18:33
VenemoDocScrutinizer: my type of gfx operations is ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); :P18:33
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DocScrutinizermoving around in memory huge chunks of graphic data tends to slow down everything, while it *looks like* nothing really got any load. DMA for example doesn't actually show up in CPU load18:34
DocScrutinizerand I have NFC what's actual overhead to setup GL18:35
johnxI was about to say it sounds a bit like it could be something like texture swapping, but I didn't want to lead you down the wrong path18:35
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: okkay. but then why can more advanced apps, eg 3D games, run on it well, while my 2D thingy with a bunch of pixmap doesn't?18:35
johnxtoo many pixmaps to fit in graphics memory?18:35
Venemojohnx: I don't think so.18:36
DocScrutinizer3D maybe is doing more GL in a 'non-interruptable' way?18:36
DocScrutinizertoo simple GL operations that do too many callbacks to CPU too frequently?18:36
johnxDocScrutinizer, he was saying CPU usage was sitting around 018:37
DocScrutinizerI know18:37
johnxUhm, this is totally out of left field ... but is the SGX's clock attached to the CPU clock in any way?18:37
DocScrutinizerquite possible CPU gets blocked waiting for GL to finish :-P18:37
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I've got no idea how QGL* works.18:38
* DocScrutinizer neither18:38
VenemoDocScrutinizer: it worked well with some simple 3D demos I tried18:38
DocScrutinizeryou probably want to talk to rasterman about it18:38
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DocScrutinizeralas he got kicked in this chan several times, so won't come back anymore. You need to find him somewhere else18:39
GAN900DocScrutinizer, this channel?18:40
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GAN900Hum, when, by whom and for what?18:40
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: I can /query him anyway. but who is he?18:41
DocScrutinizerlong ago, by crashanddie, one time for writing so fast it looked like pasting, another time for using u instead of you18:41
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: anyway, the first thing I would blame is the lots of fp calculations that the QGraphicsView fw do18:41
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: ~raterman18:43
DocScrutinizerVenemo: ~rasterman18:43
infoboti guess rasterman is the guy that broke the mold with window managers and did stuff that people thought impossible.18:44
Venemoand he's familiar with QGL*?18:44
DocScrutinizer~seen raster18:44
infobotraster <raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 7h 14m 21s ago, saying: 'jonwil: the channel disapproves of you :)'.18:44
Venemo~seen rasterman18:45
infoboti haven't seen 'rasterman', Venemo18:45
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: there is a person with that nick online right now18:45
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: it doesn't say too much.18:46
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DocScrutinizerex OM colleague18:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer: in the news section, there's interesting stuff18:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer: search for 'Image Blend Occlude', 'Image Data ARGB', and 'Image Data ARGB Alpha'18:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo: when I suggest you might want to talk to rater, then you can trust in that suggestion ;-D18:51
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DocScrutinizerraster* darn18:52
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johnxbut what he might convince you is that there's an insanely fast way to do it in software ;)18:53
RST38hNah, raster is all for OpenGL nowadays :)18:53
johnxthat's a bit of a change18:53
RST38hprobably just said "fuck it all" at some point and joined "the revolution"18:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer, johnx: after seeing those benchmarks, I now know what the problem was.18:54
VenemoI knew I'll need to sanitize my code in some time... just didn't expect it to be this soon :P18:55
johnxbetter sooner than later :)18:55
johnx(though I always avoid fixing my own hacks ...)18:56
Venemothing is, sadly what I was doing fell into the categories with negative changes in FPS. but I can fix that.18:56
javispedroVenemo: fullscreen?18:56
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javispedronot to mention that yes, you're very probably doing 2d on software faster than the sgx, unless you're talking bout rotation&zooming of many things18:57
javispedromany things that don't change per frame ;)18:58
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Venemojavispedro: the puzzle pieces were large pixmaps whose area composed of a small actual image and the rest of them were transparent18:58
RST38hVenemo: Still, you have to load that pixmap into PVR18:58
RST38htakes time18:58
Venemojavispedro: now that I removed the transparent parts, performance is acceptable18:59
javispedro"how did you do that"?18:59
Venemojavispedro: plus, the pixmaps are smaller18:59
Venemojavispedro: as I said, by making insane code saner.18:59
javispedroyou probably changed from 32bpp textures to 16bpp18:59
javispedrothereby nearly halfing the bandwidth.19:00
javispedromy suggestion is that if you're interested in the alpha textures experiment with the pvr format19:00
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DocScrutinizermeh, what I said. too simple for GL19:01
DocScrutinizertoo much overhead19:01
Venemojavispedro: no, nothing like that19:01
javispedrothe good thing is that you can mostly estimate the overhead as constant19:02
RST38hDoc: Mostly because PVR does not allow you to have textures in memory, you have to load them19:02
Venemojavispedro: as I said, the pixmaps were large, with most parts simply transparent. now they are small with no transparent parts.19:02
RST38hAnd loading textures is slowwwww19:02
javispedroVenemo: ah, well.19:02
RST38hWhich works pretty well with the MIDP 3D APIs but fails for everything else19:03
johnxhuh. my guess of texture swapping was actually close :)19:03
javispedrotmo: "Has NITDROID project been aborted ?????? " (clearly, all of their developers have been killed, the money reassigned somewhere and their x-files shredded)19:03
RST38hOf cause it has been killed!19:04
RST38hNow, let us all have a funeral service right in that thread!19:04
DocScrutinizerwith champagne and shit19:04
javispedroRST38h: supposedly, you were being positive tonight ;)19:05
DocScrutinizerbut wait, that means tmo... brrrrrr, not in the right mood for that now19:05
RST38hjavispedro: Am I not suggesting a festive celebration of sorts? =)19:05
javispedroheh, touché.19:06
johnxIt'd be more Irish wake style :)19:06
johnxSure, we'd drink and get in fights, but it's because we loved the idea of android on N900 ...19:06
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GAN900johnx, do we?19:11
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johnxGAN900, sarcasm was happening there19:13
johnxI think my IRC client stripped the sarcasm tag ...19:13
javispedroevil non-standard irc clients19:13
johnxIn my case I should just mark things that aren't meant sarcastically ...19:14
johnxor include the sarcmark in my sig and negate it later if I need to19:14
pupnik  synth/tracker for iphone/palm/linux/windows19:15
pupniktry it with preenv19:15
javispedropalm as in palmos, not webos19:15
GAN900johnx, ah, right.19:15
javispedroso, try it with garnetvm19:15
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pupnikoh oops19:16
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javispedroit will probably work on the n8x019:18
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DocScrutinizermeh, no sarcmark here, or do I simply miss the unicode point?19:20
DocScrutinizerbut I got ¡19:20
DocScrutinizerjohnx: not sarcasm obviously is !¡ then ;-)19:20
johnxor a 0 length exclamatory sentence in Spanish :D19:21
DocScrutinizernah, that'd be ¡!19:22
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johnxtrue, true. unless it was backwards day19:23
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DocScrutinizeranyway, infobot needs a new definition of factoid sarcasm¡19:35
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pupnik_considering how useless other phones are, 250 eu isn't bad for a used N90019:40
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LjL250 is about the average price for it, although you can get one for less19:41
LjLused to cost more not too many months ago19:42
chxso. what will Nokia announce Friday? Merger with BlackBerry? Partnership with HP to use WebOS? what else can they do to save themselves? Waving a new handset and showing how cool it is wont cut it19:42
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pupnik_how about saying 'screw the US market'19:43
johnxThey'll announce chx as head of marketing :)19:43
SpeedEvilchx: Nice shiny completely open handset with a partially working OS, sold at cost to devs.19:44
chxpupnik_: that's another strategy. relegate themselves to the mid-to-low end , curb R&D costs and leverage the huge selling network. sure.19:44
chxSpeedEvil: haha19:44
pupnik_it's not a low-end strategy.  the USA is the low end.19:44
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* RST38h sees strategists discussing the strategy@19:45
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pupnik_"I gots a shineyyy smartfoone and it onlyee costed me a hunnred dollars!"  (Says the USian locked-down and enslave by contract)19:46
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RST38hwho cares what the sheep say?19:47
johnxRST38h, the sheep whisperer?19:48
RST38hjohnx: possibly, but what do I know of these...19:48
johnxI think I'm supposed to make some joke about RST38h and sheep now :)19:49
johnxpupnik_, Just so you know, in a lot of cases you don't actually end up with a cheaper plan even if you bring your own phone19:49
RST38hjohnx: also true19:50
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RST38hso, you are fucked either way19:50
derfHence the sheep.19:50
johnxand switching carriers here pretty much means getting a new phone, so a lot of people don't really see a 2-year subsidized deal as all that bad19:50
johnxRST38h, but the Canadians are screwed even worse19:51
chxnot any more19:51
chxwe are now fairly free19:51
RST38hderf: Just because you understand you are among the sheep,does not give you a ticket out of the farm =)19:51
johnxah, did someone do something with the 1700/2100 spectrum?19:51
chxwith Bell/Telus implements a standard HSDPA network (dudee what) second Mobilicty and Wind builds AWS networks19:52
chxjohnx: and
johnxso you can switch companies, but do you actually get better monthly rates by bringing your own phone?19:52
chxjohnx: but, now, really Bell / Telus too in case you do not barf out in the store just to deal with them19:53
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chxjohnx: yes19:53
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chxjohnx: i am running my N900 on Wind and they charged me, i think 10 dollars for the SIM, i pay after and have no contract. Blis.19:53
RST38hwhat are traffic costs?19:54
johnxyeah, no contract, but I mean are the *monthly* rates lower than if you'd gotten a phone on contract?19:54
chxjohnx: there are no contracts. you can't sign one19:54
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johnxah. interesting19:54
RST38hMeanwhile: Nokia reportedly planning 'organizational changes,' mobile phones exec on the outs19:55
RST38hjohnx: similar to here I guess19:55
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chxjohnx: this is the version of "subsized" Wind-style19:55
RST38hjohnx: $5 for the SIM and the money goes to your account.19:55
RST38hjohnx: And then you just fill it up using any cell phone shop or a machine at the street or an ATM19:56
johnxchx, that's fairly recent, isn't it?19:56
chxit is19:56
chxthe only gotcha with Wind is that the mobile data have a limited (but not terribly limited) amount of ports. You need a laptop plan (you can't combine that with a voice plan) to have all ports19:56
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RST38hthe paper stated that Mary T. McDowell, a bigwig in the mobile phones unit, as well as Niklas Savander, the manager of the markets unit, could be on the outs. Moreover, Kai Oistamo (Chief Development Officer) and Tero Ojanpera, the manager responsible for services and mobile solutions, may also be enjoying their final weekends as Nokia employees.19:57
chxjohnx: this is the fair use policy for the unlimited plans. it's not unreasonable.19:57
* RST38h wonders if this will be the only MWC announcement from Nokia =)19:57
johnxand it looks like your ISPs didn't get away with that law they were trying to put through about billing per GB.19:57
chxno, they didnt19:58
RST38hjohnx: I am billed per GB. Nothing wrong with that.19:58
chxyou cant imagine the outrage19:58
RST38hjohnx: Still paying twice less than I would in the US, at much higher speeds19:58
johnxRST38h, Let me find the chart of bandwidth costs in Canada. It would have ended up quite expensive for them if the law had gone through ;)19:59
chx$2 per gigabyte19:59
chxit was not pretty19:59
RST38hjohnx: Cryptosocialists. They cross the border and walk among us unnoticed. (C)Michael Moore20:00
luke-jrthat IS unreasonable20:00
luke-jr5 GB/mo is nothing20:00
chxBashing the Canadians are "socialists" by a nutjub like Michael Moore....20:01
chxI did live in a socialist country20:01
RST38hchx: No, only the second sentence is attributed to him20:01
chxand now, I do live in Canada20:02
RST38hchx: And even that was made *before* he became the dork on a mission he is right now20:02
johnxRST38h, part of the problem is that the ISPs were into the content&telephony game as well, so there was a huge conflict of interest20:02
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chxIf anyone calls Canada a socialist country they do not have the shortest idea of what socialism is20:02
RST38hjohnx: Eh.. Not like you would need a conflict of interest to charge higher rates, as long as customers pay them20:02
chxjust fyi, giving the poor health care is not socialism. It's called "humanity" :P20:03
RST38hchx: Notice the Crypto- prefix20:03
RST38hIt should have rung a bell or two...20:03
chxeven Crypto- is a faaaaar overshot20:03
chxi find it... hilarious? sad? when people from the first world throw that world around20:03
johnxRST38h, the thought being that they'd ramp up the bandwidth cost to push people away from streaming movies from a 3rd party, then offer their own overpriced movie-streaming plan that was bandwidth exempt20:03
chxtry to live in one first, dude.20:03
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* GAN900 chuckles.20:04
RST38hchx <-- suddenly detonated20:04
RST38hjohnx: Torrent it is.20:04
RST38hjohnx: And lawyers fighting over a service that only a few people are interested in, they are hilarious20:05
johnxRST38h, uhm, see the part about insanely high per GB bandwidth costs + throttling20:05
chxyeah that was the plan up until the point when people have flooded Mr. Clement's office with such an amount of mail that even the prime minister needed to stand up and say "we wont let this happen"20:05
johnxRST38h, netflix has gotten somewhat popular in the US&Canada20:06
RST38hjohnx: yes but that was since the DVD mailing time20:06
GAN900johnx, the problem of monopolies.20:07
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RST38hGAN: Telcos are natural monopolies, there is only a few wires going into your home and telcos own 'em20:08
GAN900RST38h, sort of.20:08
RST38hGAN: Hence their protests against municipal WiFi20:08
RST38hWhich they apparently managed t kill almost everywhere in the US, right?20:08
johnxRST38h, article from last year says: 15 million subscribers of which 60% stream content20:08
GAN900That combined with the crazy regulatory requirements imposed by the FCC makes it impossible for small companies to compete20:09
RST38hjohnx: Wow20:09
johnxit's admittedly a pretty slick service20:09
RST38hjohnx: do they still charge the same as they charged for mail-in DVDs?20:10
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johnxRST38h, they just added the streaming part free. Then later they bumped the plan by $1/month and offered a 'streaming only' plan at the old price20:10
RST38hGAN: You mean, nobody has figured they can wire a neighborhood with CAT5 and share the same account with an ISP?20:11
RST38hGAN: Or place a few WiFi access points, with the same effect?20:11
GAN900chx, out of interest. Do you see the flaws with an emotion-based argument like that?20:11
chxand then the ISP disables you  because sharing is not allowed.20:12
RST38hjohnx: Hmm, so basically it is unlimited movies for a flat monthly fee?20:12
chxyou need a "leased line" for that which, of course, is hideously expensive.20:12
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RST38hchx: Howdo they know?20:12
chxRST38h: this has been so since forever?20:12
chxRST38h: unlimited movies for a flat fee, yes, but you cna't watch on Linux20:13
johnxRST38h, yeah, but they don't put the newest stuff online, and sometimes they don't get streaming deals with studios20:13
RST38hchx:So, how do they know, since forever? =)20:13
chxRST38h: what, read any ISP ToS20:13
RST38h(btw, leased lines were something like $700/mo and that was 13years ago)20:13
RST38hchx: You are not answering the question20:13
chxRST38h: oh, how woudl the ISP know it?20:14
RST38hjohnx: Torrent then.20:14
johnxbut really, it's a pretty great deal and the reason that I get away without having cable TV or even an antenna to receive OTA broadcasts :)20:14
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chxRST38h: that's a good question... deep packet investigation? i dunno, it could be your home NAT, right?20:14
RST38hjohnx: On the other hand, I have to admit I haven't used Torrent for anything more than downloading a season of Dr Who20:14
johnxRST38h, exactly. Netflix lets me cut down on my torrents ;) It's great for the "I want to watch something right now" mindset20:14
RST38hchx: So, there is no answer.20:14
RST38hjohnx: Still takes time to start streaming I guess20:15
chxRST38h: so let's put this way -- putting down CAT5 is expensive ('cos digging the street is epxneisve) and investing money on the hope the ISP won't catch is not the best business plan.20:15
RST38hchx:No, wrong answer.20:15
johnxRST38h, 30s? Probably longer to get a DVD off the shelf20:15
compengihello all, how do i check the currect firmware and maemo version? and does the software updater upgrades to the newest version and firmware or i should manually flash it?20:15
RST38hjohnx: Can'ttake 30s20:16
johnxcompengi, Settings -> About product20:16
RST38hjohnx: Probably takes a couple of minutes at least, to fill up the buffer20:16
johnxcompengi, Current is: 20.2010.36-220:16
johnxRST38h, want me to test it?20:16
RST38hchx: Don't need to dig it in, really20:16
RST38hjohnx: If you have the service, yes20:17
RST38hjohnx: Also, does it have hiccups?20:17
compengijohnx, aha, so i have the latest, and what about the firmware?20:17
RST38h'cause it is either fast startup or possibility of hiccups20:17
johnxRST38h, I think it's "more possibility of hiccups early" and then it keeps building a buffer20:17
RST38hjohnx: Depends on your connection I guess20:18
johnxI have a good connection ;)20:18
johnxand netflix has good connectivity20:18
RST38hjohnx: All attempts at streaming I have seen in the States (mostly Comcast) were PAIN20:18
johnxNetflix has some serious geopgraphic diversity, deals with multiple backbone providers20:19
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johnxcompengi, what about it? It's the latest. Did you want to reflash?20:20
johnxRST38h, IIRC, their plan from the beginning was the streaming stuff, even when they were getting it jump started with the mailing DVDs thing.20:20
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RST38hjohnx: Doubt it: when they came up to be, video streaming was a pie in the sky20:22
johnxabout 13s to moving video20:22
RST38hPretty good20:22
johnxmaybe it buffers in the background as soon as I pick a video?20:22
compengijohnx, i see, so the maemo software is the firmware20:22
johnxcompengi, yeah. people sometimes use both words interchangeably20:23
GAN900Netflix is great when it works20:23
RST38hjohnx: As longas your download speed is faster than play back, why not20:23
johnxRST38h, they might be doing some terribly 'clever' stuff for all I know, but the effect is that it works well from a user point of view20:23
compengijohnx, good to know :)20:23
RST38hjohnx: Nah, cannot cheat the information theory20:23
RST38hjohnx: It either looks like shit (see Youtube) or requires long startup, or hiccups, or (most often) all the above20:24
johnxRST38h, err, I mean there's a screen when you select a movie, before you hit 'play' for that movie. The might already be streaming it before I even confirm my choice20:24
compengibtw how much time does it usually take to fully charge the phone when it's turned off? i left the phone on till it went off and now charging it for ~2.5h, is it usual?20:25
RST38hprebuffering? should be easy to detect by watching network activity =)20:25
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johnxcompengi, Are you charging from USB? or a wall charger?20:25
compengifrom the wall charger20:25
johnxRST38h, or fast startup with higher probability of hiccups early on, then fill the buffer aggressively. They also do tricks with different quality levels to suit different bandwidth20:26
johnxcompengi, it's probably almost charged20:26
RST38hjohnx: again that requires the bandwidth20:27
compengijohnx, btw it's charging while it's on, i misinterpret myself20:27
RST38hjohnx: on the other hand, you may have the bandwidth given good connectivity in the US20:27
RST38hjohnx: As there is just a handful of pipes between here and the US, I do not have the same here :)20:27
johnxRST38h, yeah, but "see also: adaptive bitrate" :)20:27
johnxand they only offer it in the US and Canada anyways20:28
johnxyou'd need to do some clever proxying20:28
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RST38hjohnx: Torrent.20:29
johnxRST38h, whatever floats your boat :)20:29
RST38hjohnx: [un]funny thing is, I haven't downloaded a single US blockbuster movie, ever20:30
RST38hjohnx: It is always some weird, old, usually european stuff20:30
RST38hjohnx: and it is quite possible that I am not alone in this20:31
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derfThe internet is a great repository of things you cannot buy in any store.20:31
derfI was sad to find the link to Borland Turbo C 2.0 is dead.20:32
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RST38hderf:YOu can still get WatcomC though, it is better! =)20:33
RST38hFor those times when you absolutely need to write a Novell driver or an OS/2app20:34
derfRST38h: That is actually what I did.20:34
johnxgrrrr, is there anything I can do to make "make modules_install" install to a $PREFIX?20:34
johnx(linux kernel)20:34
derfThey even have a Linux version, but it won't build for x86-64.20:34
derf"Unknown architecture"20:34
johnxnevermind. $INSTALL_MOD_PATH20:35
DocScrutinizercompengi: iirc the specs say it needs 3.5h20:35
lindi-johnx: O=$PREFIX?20:35
* johnx needed to RTFMakefile20:35
DocScrutinizerthough it is reaching some 90% after 90min20:35
RST38hderf: Hack it!20:36
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derfThe goal of the exercise was to get something working fast.20:36
pupnik_wow, n900 just sold with english kb for 190 euro on ebay.de20:36
pupnik_and a few minutes before 290 euro20:36
pupnik_crazy price range20:36
derfI just needed to be able to test that some code worked with a 16-bit int, and real-mode DOS was the easiest platform to do that in.20:36
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compengiDocScrutinizer, wow.. my n79 with 1200mAh used to charge in ~1.25h lol20:38
compengiDocScrutinizer, 3.5h while the phone is on or off?20:39
DocScrutinizercompengi: it's easy to make N900 tell you "charging finished" after 60min :-P20:39
DocScrutinizercompengi: that's largely irrelevant20:39
DocScrutinizerit's the pretty slow topping charge at end of charging that takes lots of time20:40
compengiDocScrutinizer, well.. i hope n79 didn't fool me20:40
compengii know20:40
DocScrutinizerit'S a question how you define "charging finished" - nothing to do with fooling20:40
johnxDocScrutinizer, except for emergency charge, is it ever really charging while off?20:40
johnxI mean, don't they use X11 to display the charging screen?20:41
jacekowskijohnx: no20:41
jacekowskijohnx: phone is running when charging20:41
jacekowskijust with minimal os20:41
DocScrutinizerit's entering a different init-state, like init 1 maybe20:41
DocScrutinizercalled ACT_DEAD20:42
DocScrutinizerit can even run sw-updates OTA during that :-D20:42
johnxah, on the N800 it booted all the way into X to display the charging icon20:42
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compengii wonder why nokia decided to use a 1320mAh battery on such a power consuming phone :/20:42
johnxit's already brick-sized :)20:43
DocScrutinizerprobably it was the best fit20:43
compengii've seen phones with 1800mAh20:43
DocScrutinizerform factor wise20:43
compengiwell.. n900 is already huge :P20:43
SiceloDocScrutinizer: sw-updates while charging in off state? :-O20:43
DocScrutinizerbtw N900 by no means is power hungry20:43
DocScrutinizerpoorly written apps are, though20:44
DocScrutinizerSicelo: yep20:44
jacekowskiwell, they could have used bigger battery anyways20:44
compengiif they would have added +1x1x1 cm it wouldn't make much of a difference, would it? :D20:44
jacekowskido it like in nokia 511020:44
DocScrutinizerthat'd be much more of a brick than even N81020:44
jacekowskiwhere battery was a back cover at the same time20:44
jacekowskiso you have bit more space20:45
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compengii've seen such phones20:45
compengi6310i or so20:45
compengimy dad uses it till now20:45
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DocScrutinizermy 6210 is pretty lean, compared to even the N90020:45
DocScrutinizeranyway, dinnertime20:46
DocScrutinizercya o/20:46
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compengisee ya20:46
SiceloEnjoy it DocScrutinizer :)20:47
Sicelothanks for the info20:47
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compengican i switch off the sound while tapping on the touch screen?21:15
RST38hMeanwhile: Hackers Penetrate Nasdaq Computer Networks21:15
sleepeehello everybody.  i have a quick question about the n900 and was wondering if somebody could help me.21:16
SpeedEvilsleepee: maybe.21:17
SpeedEvilsleepee: What is your problem?21:17
sleepeewell, i got my n900 a while ago and am planning to use it with t-mobile, but they need to know where to put the APN.\21:17
compengiwow, that's nasty21:17
SpeedEvilsleepee: Are you in the US?21:18
sleepeethey don't know where to put this nuber21:18
sleepeein puerto rico, but i think it's the same t-mobile21:18
SpeedEvilsleepee: It is - but implementation details differ21:18
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SpeedEvil for example21:19
sleepeehmm.. well, i've been playing with the phone trying to figure out where to put this number but i can't find it21:19
SpeedEvilIt's not a number usually21:19
SpeedEvilIt's an address, like an interenet address, but not really21:19
sleepeeahhh  i see.. so i have to download this app and use that?21:20
DocScrutinizer51APN for internet/data?21:20
sleepeeyes @ DocScrutinizer51 if i'm not mistaken21:20
SpeedEvilsleepee: that's one way to do it - usually your service provider will send you a  special SMS, and it just works.21:21
DocScrutinizer51you put that yourself into settings - internet - new_connection21:21
sleepeei can put the apn into the internet connections settings?21:21
DocScrutinizer51or you get that SMS21:21
sleepeeoh, i see...   well, i'll download that fapn app just in case as well..  the t-mobile people had never seen the n900 and it didn't look like they knew what they were doing with that phone21:22
DocScrutinizer51compengi: check touchscreen click volume, in settings input (iirc, or screen)21:23
SpeedEvilGenerally, if you can get them to send a SMS with settings to the phone, it 'just works'.21:23
sleepeebtw, i don't need anything else to actually use the n900 on the tmobile network as a phone do i?21:23
DocScrutinizer51generally your provider doesn't ask you where to put that21:24
SpeedEvilsleepee: Shouldn't. Though I don't know if it works at all in brazil.21:24
SpeedEvilsleepee: generally, if it can work, it will work.21:24
compengiDocScrutinizer51, i don't have a volume option in the screen settings21:25
sleepeethe way they explained the apn to me, it seemed like just a type of access point or a router..21:25
DocScrutinizer51settings - profile, last setting there21:26
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DocScrutinizer51sleepee: that's correct21:26
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sleepeeok.. well, i just downloaded the fapn app... it seems easy enough for the tmobile people to work with.  thanks for the help guys!21:28
sleepeeoh wait!! i have another question... not related to apn though.  lol21:30
compengiDocScrutinizer51, thanks, found it21:30
sleepeeto update the phone to pr 1.3 it seems like i need ovi suite or something installed on my computer.21:30
DocScrutinizer51sleepee: fapn is for mms21:30
DocScrutinizer51not needed for normal data access21:31
DocScrutinizer51you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN21:31
sleepee@ DocScrutinizer51 idk, that's what the tmobile people told me i needed for internet access21:31
SpeedEvilOops - I thought it was for APN21:32
sleepeeit seems they have different internet apn's for different phones21:32
SpeedEvilThey can't just tell you teh APN? Or you look it up?21:32
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sleepeehmm... i didn't ask.21:33
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sleepeei'll google it though21:33
sleepeei think i mightve found it.. i'll give it a try..21:35
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sleepeehmm..  i added with the fapn app and it tells me to edit the control panel.21:37
DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"21:37
DocScrutinizerDO NOT USE FAPN!21:38
sleepeelol.. ok.. no more fapn21:38
DocScrutinizerfapn is for MMS!21:38
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-05 20:31:58] <DocScrutinizer51> you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN21:40
SpeedEvilOops - sorry, I misundertood what it was for. I've never seen the normal set AP?N thingy21:40
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sleepeeok... i added to the ssid.21:40
DocScrutinizerto WHAT?21:41
SpeedEvilssid is the wrong place21:41
sleepeelol!!!  im confused..21:41
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DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"21:41
DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"21:41
DocScrutinizersettings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint"21:41
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sleepeewhen i tap on new it asks me for the name of the connection.. i just put tmobile.21:42
SpeedEvilIs there an existing cellphone internet connection?21:43
SpeedEvilIf there is, it will do that21:43
SpeedEvilThe icon for an existing cellphone internet connection is like two arrows21:43
SpeedEvilIn a circle21:43
SpeedEvilIf there is one, you need to edit it21:43
DocScrutinizeryep, sorry21:43
sleepeelol!!!  i think i forgot to tell youguys i don't actually have service with tmobile yet21:44
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DocScrutinizerprolly you already have a connection of whatver name that's a GPRS connection, selct that one and 'edit'21:44
sleepeeok.. so when i actually get my cell phone activated with tmobile, i can edit the cell phone internet connection and from there add the apn?21:45
DocScrutinizeryou can only config one GPRS connection for data(internet) - a flaw of the settings and connectivity manager21:45
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sleepeeoh.. that's the cellular connection...21:48
sleepeehmm... i see..  well i was just askin for info for when i actually get my cell activated...  thanks for the help guys!21:50
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SpeedEvilGood luck.21:53
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Ken-YoungCan I talk some kind soul into testing my app (orrery) in the Extras Testing repository?   It's been in QA purgatory for a couple of weeks, and needs one more positive vote to graduate.22:01
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DocScrutinizer51you bet I'll do :-)22:02
DocScrutinizer51orrery is GREAT22:03
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Ken-YoungI didn't know you ever ran it.22:03
DocScrutinizer51I love it since _es22:03
Ken-YoungThat's great to hear.   Please, please let me know of any features you'd like to have added.   I'm afraid I'm adding stuff that nobody but me cares about.22:04
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Ken-YoungLike the new analemma.22:05
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DocScrutinizer51damn, I never before heard of analemma, and it's nice to learn about the data in it22:18
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DocScrutinizer51I always wonder when the sat dishes will incinerate the LNBs, with this data I probably could figure22:19
Ken-YoungI think the analemma may be the science figure that more people have seen and puzzled over, than any other.   Most globes used to print the analemma in the Pacific Ocean for some reason.22:19
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Ken-YoungThe analemma very slowly changes over time, as the earth's orbit changes, and the pole precesses.   orrery properly calculates it for the year you select - that's why it's rather slow, it's doing a very careful calculation that retures nearly 3/4 of a million trig function calls.22:21
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infobotKen-Young meant: The analemma very slowly changes over time, as the earth's orbit changes, and the pole precesses.   orrery properly calculates it for the year you select - that's why it's rather slow, it's doing a very careful calculation that requires nearly 3/4 of a mi...22:21
DocScrutinizer51heh, now I see why it took 2s to open :-D22:22
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Ken-YoungI'm slowly converting the solar system calculations to the VSOP87 package, with is far more accurate than the eorbital elements (and derivitives of orbital elements) that I'm currently using to plot planets.   VSOP87 gives sub-arcsecond accuracy.22:25
* DocScrutinizer51 still tries to wrap his head around the analemma +/-afew minutes 22:25
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Ken-YoungWith VSOP87, I can now do things like calculate the moment when a season starts with high accuracy.22:26
DocScrutinizer51well, if it's optified then I doubt there could be anything fishy in such a professionally done app22:26
Ken-YoungIt's optified.22:26
DocScrutinizer51you should post the link to vote ;-)22:27
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ieatlinti suspect if women had pants with pockets, their key chains wouldn't be so damned huge22:28
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Ken-YoungThanks, Doc!22:31
DocScrutinizerKen-Young: go ahead :-D22:31
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DocScrutinizerthanks for the nice app :-)22:32
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DocScrutinizervoting for it is the least I can do22:33
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DocScrutinizercheers and hooray for another killer app in extras :-D22:42
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GAN900Flickr stats information is bad for my health.22:44
Ken-YoungNow I have to update the wiki...22:44
GAN900Someone is searching for pictures of wazd on Google and ending up on my photostream.22:45
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Ken-YoungI can no longer take screenshots on my N900 by pressing CNTRL+SHIFT+P  this may have started when I downloaded the Community OS Update.   Has anyone else seen this problem?   Could someone else running the Community OS mods try to take a screenshot that way, to see if it still works for you?23:10
VenemoKen-Young: worked for me last time I checked23:11
Ken-YoungVenemo, After enabling Community OS?23:11
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VenemoKen-Young: if you are refferring to the community SSU, then yes23:13
GAN900Somebody needs to code up a rimshot applet.23:13
VenemoGAN900: what's rimshot?23:13
Ken-YoungVenemo, Yes, that's what I meant.   THanks for the info - I've probably messed up my box in some other way, then.23:14
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GAN900Venemo, the drum sequence that plays when somebody makes a stupid pun.23:14
GAN900bad duh-dump tssshh23:15
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VenemoGAN900: :D23:15
VenemoGAN900: get me the sound effect and I may make you such a widget :P23:15 must have something.23:16
Loveable_rougeany body help with queenbeecon command problem23:17
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: wanna test the new version of puzzle-master?23:22
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7?23:23
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DocScrutinizer51let's assume I have23:26
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Venemosorry, this crap connection disconnected me23:29
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7?23:30
DocScrutinizer51let's assume I have23:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: well then you should wait 5 minutes until I commit to git and upload a deb somewhere23:31
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DocScrutinizer51well, what if I don't wait ? :-P23:32
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GAN900I thought gerbick quit.23:33
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DocScrutinizer51GAN900: eh?23:35
GAN900DocScrutinizer51, he posted an "I'm leaving thread", yet he's still out typing up silliness.23:40
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GAN900"I quit" threads never made much sense to me.23:44
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: "well, what if I don't wait ? :-P" -> you can teleport here and try on my N90023:46
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