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| blackthorne | For instance, Skype | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * lardman prepares for the abuse from GAN900 | 00:00 | |
| lardman | and others no doubt | 00:00 |
| GAN900 | See, if you hadn't highlighted me I'd never have noticed. | 00:00 |
| thomasjfox | lardman: I'll add a link from the wiki to TMO - better than nothing | 00:00 |
| GAN900 | Now I'm going to read the scrollback. :P | 00:00 |
| lardman | GAN900: :) | 00:01 |
| lardman | thomasjfox: yep, how big is the file? | 00:01 |
| lardman | e.g. lines? | 00:01 |
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| thomasjfox | lardman: 298 lines / 10 kb | 00:01 |
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| lardman | bloody long lines then! | 00:01 |
| dan2003 | thomasjfox: vibrate does work when call is ongoing :( | 00:01 |
| dan2003 | thomasjfox: does/does not | 00:02 |
| lardman | 10kb!? really? | 00:02 |
| thomasjfox | lardman: Well, it contains documentation due to the lack of official documentation | 00:02 |
| lardman | ok | 00:02 |
| GAN900 | lardman, the armour just leads to more dementia. | 00:03 |
| lardman | GAN900: :) | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | dan2003: duh! | 00:03 |
| blackthorne | lardman: So Ryan Giggs is the person of the year? | 00:03 |
| lardman | GAN900: Just delays the effect of the head injuries, or allows you to keep playing when you would normally have given up I guess | 00:03 |
| lardman | blackthorne: he's Welsh afaiu? | 00:04 |
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| lardman | and he's a Soccer player, rubbish sport imnsho | 00:04 |
| GAN900 | lardman, makes you think you're invicible, so harder hits, which leads to more brain damage. | 00:04 |
| lardman | nod | 00:04 |
| lardman | only feel invicible once per game playing rugby | 00:04 |
| blackthorne | lardman: here it is just football | 00:05 |
| thomasjfox | dan2003: Do some dbus monitoring on the session/system bus, if you are lucky you'll catch the signal to generate the beep | 00:05 |
| lardman | my mother is an Aussie, so football has many meanings | 00:05 |
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| lardman | and the camp game in which people fall over clutching their ankles doesn't really count | 00:06 |
| lardman | perhaps it's the beer making me vocalise, but it's still how I feel :) | 00:07 |
| blackthorne | lardman: I like an english player called Lampard and Gerard | 00:07 |
| blackthorne | I think they are english though | 00:07 |
| lardman | I know the names, but really don't follow "football" at all | 00:07 |
| blackthorne | dinner and concert time, leaving | 00:08 |
| blackthorne | bye | 00:08 |
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| lardman | bye | 00:09 |
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| slonopotamus | so. any n8x0 users are still there? | 00:17 |
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| * javispedro 's N810 is at this moment in a reboot cycle due to bad battery and bme's bug, hopefully will eventually snap out of it. | 00:18 | |
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| makulkar_laptop | MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer got it!! i was trying to connect from usb3 port used usb2 port and ssh just worked! | 00:25 |
| makulkar_laptop | thanks for all the help! | 00:25 |
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| javispedro | *sigh* | 00:32 |
| javispedro | so, my stupid ISP does this every two years: 1) send a PR telling how much they care about IPv6 2) register a new domain like "$providerName-ipv6-rules.com" or "ip6-its-time-$providerName.com" 3) advertise lots of services on the domain (4to6, 6to4, get your free ipv6 router, you name it), 4) let it rot for a year, 5) rinse repeat | 00:34 |
| slonopotamus | my grandma said they're out of ipv4 adresses | 00:34 |
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| javispedro | that's the reason they've shortened the cycle today and went from 5 to 1 in a year instead of two. | 00:35 |
| javispedro | they did not even let the previous ipv6-rules.com domain expire | 00:36 |
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| Loveable_rouge | this IRC is strange | 01:56 |
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| psycho_oreos | maybe you're strange | 01:56 |
| Loveable_rouge | not even sure i understand it lol | 01:56 |
| arp | irc is simple, clean and beatiful :) | 01:57 |
| toresbe | you have to type in your credit card details in order to ask questions. They will be used for, er, age verification. | 01:57 |
| Loveable_rouge | @toresbe haha funny wasnt born yesterday !! | 01:58 |
| villager | not yesterday? sounds like a good enough age verification | 01:59 |
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| toresbe | good enough for me | 02:00 |
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| wazd | damn, android on n900 is totally sick :) | 02:06 |
| wazd | Wi-Fi is not working though :( | 02:06 |
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| Sc0rpius | it seems that N900 weren't sold at this side of the world | 06:58 |
| Sc0rpius | because when I'm awake, you all are sleeping | 06:58 |
| Sc0rpius | and you all are talking here, I'm sleeping | 06:58 |
| Sc0rpius | this sucks | 06:58 |
| Ken-Young | Sc0rpius, Where are you? | 06:59 |
| Sc0rpius | Venezuela | 06:59 |
| Ken-Young | Well, some of us up north are still awake. | 06:59 |
| Sc0rpius | and it's 12:30 am here | 06:59 |
| Ken-Young | 12:00 AM here. | 06:59 |
| Sc0rpius | oh so you are in the east coast | 07:00 |
| *** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo | 07:00 | |
| Ken-Young | I didn't know there were any 1/2 hour from GMT timezones in the western hemisphere. | 07:00 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah blame our stupid president | 07:00 |
| Ken-Young | Yes, Cambridge, MA, USA | 07:00 |
| Sc0rpius | we were GMT-4 before | 07:00 |
| Sc0rpius | and he woke up one day and said: "when kids get awake is still dark out there" | 07:00 |
| Sc0rpius | and he moved half an hour | 07:00 |
| Ken-Young | My clock has a snooze button for that. | 07:01 |
| Sc0rpius | and now at 5:00 pm is dark | 07:01 |
| Sc0rpius | hahaha | 07:01 |
| Sc0rpius | funny, but I guess kids can't be late for school | 07:02 |
| Sc0rpius | anyway it didn't solve anything, now at 5:00 pm is dark | 07:02 |
| Ken-Young | When I was a kid, I lived in Iowa, and the farmers protested against the establishment of Daylight Savings Time because they thought the extra hour of sunlight would hurt their crops. | 07:02 |
| Sc0rpius | haha | 07:02 |
| Sc0rpius | unbelievable | 07:02 |
| Sc0rpius | people are stupid like that. When the time was moved people thought the had to work half an hour more a day | 07:04 |
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| Ken-Young | Sc0rpius, By the way, thanks for the subsidized home heating oil. | 07:07 |
| Sazpaimon | so, I'm afraid of getting an N900 so close to the MWC | 07:08 |
| Sazpaimon | should I be? | 07:08 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Well, there's a chance the first Meego phone will be introduced around the time of MWC. | 07:08 |
| Sazpaimon | indeed, but even then, the time between announcement and launch averages on like, 5 or 6 months | 07:09 |
| Sazpaimon | 8 or 9 if you're nokia | 07:09 |
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| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Nokia *claims* they are trying to reduce the time between anouncement and availability. | 07:09 |
| Sc0rpius | I though N900 was EOL already | 07:10 |
| Sc0rpius | and only a few percentage of people in the planet, like us, are lucky to have one | 07:10 |
| Ken-Young | Sc0rpius, Well, you can still but new units on, for example, Amazon. | 07:10 |
| Sazpaimon | n900 EOL wasn't announced yet i believe | 07:11 |
| Ken-Young | If Noikia drops Meego in favor of Android or WM7, I'll immediately buy another N900. | 07:11 |
| Sazpaimon | they just kind of abandoned the platform | 07:11 |
| Ken-Young | That's the Nokia way. | 07:12 |
| Sazpaimon | [00:09] <Ken-Young> Sazpaimon, Nokia *claims* they are trying to reduce the time between anouncement and availability. | 07:12 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah, the N8 sure shows that! | 07:12 |
| Sc0rpius | Nokia dropping Meego? now that would be stupid | 07:12 |
| Sazpaimon | nokia would never drop meego because that would be financial suicide for them | 07:12 |
| Ken-Young | It might be good in the short term, but I agree it would be terrible in the long term. | 07:13 |
| Sazpaimon | anyway, what's the concensus? should i snatch this N900 i can secure on ebay? or wait for MWC | 07:14 |
| johnx | Sazpaimon, how much on ebay? | 07:14 |
| Sazpaimon | $260 | 07:14 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, All I can say is the hardware is a little old fashion these days, but I'm very glad I have mine, and if I lost it I'd replace it with another N900. | 07:14 |
| johnx | if the new one comes out in May and costs $550, will you be able to buy it at that price/time? | 07:15 |
| Ken-Young | You have to enjoy fiddling with the software, though. | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon | that's a good point | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon | only new nokia device i could afford was the E71 | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon | and at the time i didnt even know it just launched | 07:15 |
| Ken-Young | It's nowhere near as smooth an ownership experience as iPhone or even Android. | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon | i saw it at best buy, needed a phone, and snagged it | 07:15 |
| Sc0rpius | E71 is a good phone | 07:15 |
| Sazpaimon | Sc0rpius, i still have mine :) | 07:16 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Are you familiar with linux, or interested in learning about it? | 07:16 |
| Sazpaimon | Ken-Young, I run 3 linux dedicated servers | 07:16 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Well, we'll check off that box then! | 07:16 |
| Sazpaimon | i know if there's a program I need I can apt-get -b source it if it isn't in the repo | 07:16 |
| johnx | Ken-Young, not from the start, but once you get it working exactly how you want, the interactions are rather streamlined (typical linux-y situation :) | 07:17 |
| Sazpaimon | i'd prefer a portage system though, but compiling everyhthing on a phone is silly | 07:17 |
| Sc0rpius | nobody does that | 07:17 |
| Sc0rpius | unless you modify the software for a reason and anyway you don't compile it on the phone but somewhere else hehe | 07:17 |
| Sazpaimon | well yeah there's that | 07:18 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Yes, I compile my N900 code on my linux laptop. There's an SDK. | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | i actually messed with the SDK a few times | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | i ported gnash to the N900 | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | it "works," but it's still gnash | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | still, I wanted to see if I could get an open source flash player working | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | gnash, by the way, has very poor flash 9 suppor | 07:19 |
| Sazpaimon | t | 07:19 |
| Sc0rpius | I just implemented tree view in my Modest | 07:20 |
| Ken-Young | johnx I agree. | 07:20 |
| Sazpaimon | anyway, maemo isn't what's bothering me about the N900. It's the hardware | 07:20 |
| Sc0rpius | with collapsable/expandable subfolders | 07:20 |
| Sc0rpius | what's wrong with the hardware | 07:20 |
| johnx | Sc0rpius, the fact that it will be obsoleted whenever the N9 or whatever comes out | 07:21 |
| Sazpaimon | the CPU is still great, even by today's standards. A 500Mhz OMAP cpu blows the N8's ARM11 out of the water any day | 07:21 |
| Sc0rpius | 600 MHz | 07:21 |
| Sazpaimon | the RAM is my biggest concern | 07:21 |
| Ken-Young | There are lots of reports about broken microUSB ports on the N900, but that's the only quality issue I'm aware of. | 07:21 |
| Sc0rpius | yeah that's what you should worry: the USB port | 07:22 |
| Sc0rpius | and maybe it's a little heavy | 07:22 |
| Sc0rpius | and not having multitouch kinda sucks | 07:22 |
| Sc0rpius | everything else is fine | 07:22 |
| Sazpaimon | Sc0rpius, i own an E71, that's heavy | 07:22 |
| Sazpaimon | esepcially for such a tiny tiny phone | 07:22 |
| Sc0rpius | the N900 is heavier | 07:22 |
| Sazpaimon | that's good, as long as it isn't bulky | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | E71: 127 g, N900: 181g | 07:23 |
| Sazpaimon | i like knowing what pocket my phone is in without patting myself down | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | it IS bulky | 07:23 |
| johnx | The RAM can be a bit restricting sometimes depending on the situation | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | it feels like a brick | 07:23 |
| johnx | some apps are just RAM hogs | 07:23 |
| johnx | like an *awesome* brick | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | I still love it though | 07:23 |
| Sazpaimon | i kind of want to experiment with very high quality microsd cards as alternat swap space compared to the internal space | 07:23 |
| Sazpaimon | it might perform faster | 07:23 |
| johnx | it really is an "everything and the kitchen sink" phone | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | it's way too powerful to even compare it with another phone | 07:23 |
| Sc0rpius | it has to be compared with laptops | 07:23 |
| Sazpaimon | i havent looked at any internal shots of the phone. Is the RAM stacked on top of the CPU (or vice versa) | 07:24 |
| Sc0rpius | no clue | 07:24 |
| Sc0rpius | but why would that be an issue | 07:24 |
| johnx | same die I think | 07:24 |
| Sazpaimon | if it is it means upgrading the ram chips is pretty much completely out of the question | 07:24 |
| johnx | errrr, nah. it's stacked Package-on-Package or something | 07:25 |
| Sc0rpius | battery life is what worries me, and I'm not sure if CSSU has someting to do with it 'cos I think it worsen it | 07:25 |
| Sc0rpius | and flash updates | 07:25 |
| Sc0rpius | heh | 07:25 |
| Sazpaimon | johnx, eugh, i hate that | 07:25 |
| johnx | yeah. no upgrades. :) | 07:25 |
| Sazpaimon | i thought there might be a possibility of replacing the ram chip with something with the same schematic but with more space | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon | not gonna happen :/ | 07:26 |
| Sc0rpius | 256 MB is fine | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon | maybe my microsd as swap idea could work | 07:26 |
| Sc0rpius | most people do that, I do it | 07:26 |
| Sc0rpius | but not in the microsd | 07:26 |
| Sc0rpius | in the internal flash memory | 07:26 |
| Sc0rpius | 32 GB | 07:27 |
| Sazpaimon | i dont know the speed of the internal space, but i bet there are microsd cards that could be faster than it | 07:27 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, If you want to mess around with the chips, an Openmoko gt04 (new!) might be better for you. It's based on the Beagle Board. | 07:27 |
| Sc0rpius | I think internal is faster than a class 10 microsd external, but that's just me | 07:27 |
| Sazpaimon | Sc0rpius, class has nothing to do with random read/write speed | 07:27 |
| Sazpaimon | unfortunately class 10 cards can have very poor random access speeds | 07:28 |
| Sc0rpius | hmm | 07:28 |
| Sazpaimon | microsoft is pushing for microsd cards with very high quality random access speeds for their phones | 07:28 |
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| Sc0rpius | nice | 07:28 |
| Sazpaimon | because cards sold today can fry on a windows phone due to how windows phone handles external space (it treats it as additional space to the internal memory) | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon | the key is cards with good random access speeds, that's why microsoft is doing the "certified for windows phone" microsd cards. I figure cards with that certification might work well as swap space on an N900 | 07:29 |
| Sazpaimon | i've done some research and found a few class 6 cards that users claim work great in their windows phones | 07:30 |
| Sazpaimon | that's of course if I get an N900 | 07:31 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hey guys - Anyone here messed with Gimp on EasyDebian? | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | Ken-Young: WHAT | 07:41 |
| Ken-Young | luke-jr, What are you asking about? | 07:41 |
| luke-jr | OpenMoko new phone⁇ | 07:41 |
| Ken-Young | luke-jr, Not from the company. | 07:42 |
| luke-jr | link! | 07:42 |
| Ken-Young | luke-jr, There's a community effort that will plae a respun version of the Beagle Board in an Openmoko gt02 case, and use the original Openmoko display hardware. | 07:43 |
| Ken-Young | I'll look for the link. | 07:43 |
| luke-jr | ugh I missed out | 07:44 |
| Ken-Young | luke-jr, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GTA04_revisions | 07:44 |
| Ken-Young | I should have been saying gta04, not gt04. | 07:45 |
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| Ken-Young | luke-jr, It should be even more of a geek wet dream than the Freerunner was. | 07:46 |
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| Sazpaimon | Ken-Young, except Openmoko cases are ugly | 08:02 |
| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, Hey - the whole thing's gonna be ugly. But it's extremely cool. | 08:03 |
| Ken-Young | acellermonet, compass, gyroscope, altimeter... | 08:03 |
| Sazpaimon | I would rather see someone make a beagle board that fits in a more contemporary case | 08:03 |
| Sazpaimon | you know, like the N900 | 08:03 |
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| Ken-Young | Sazpaimon, If you care how it looks, you're not the target audience. | 08:04 |
| Sazpaimon | indeed | 08:04 |
| Ken-Young | Try finding another phone with expansion cables for peripherals and data collection. | 08:06 |
| Ken-Young | And JTAG | 08:06 |
| Ken-Young | Try finding another phone that you can order today, even though the manufacturer hasn't figured out how much RAM it will end up having. | 08:08 |
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| johnx | heh. well it wasn't a phone, but the pandora was like that :) | 08:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tell you what - it's a brilliant plan to get their gta02 out of the shelf, those otherwise would collect dust forever. And hey, a 5$ ugly plastic case plus 60$ display for just 260$, that's a real bargain | 08:19 |
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| Ken-Young | I wonder how many they still have on the shelf. | 08:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Goldelico prolly a dozen or two - "we" some thousands | 08:21 |
| Ken-Young | Well, I still use my Freerunner - it's a very nice GPS unit, IMHO. | 08:22 |
| johnx | Actually though, I'm not sure the lack of knowing the RAM size is that huge an issue. AFAIU, on the OMAP3 different pin-compatible packages with different amounts of memory are available, so it's not something that need major rework to change the memory size (hope I'm not too far off ...) | 08:22 |
| Ken-Young | johnx, Well, I plan on buying one if they ever really go on sale. | 08:23 |
| jacekowski | you would have to change xloader | 08:23 |
| jacekowski | nolo xloader | 08:24 |
| jacekowski | signed part | 08:24 |
| Ken-Young | I've got two gta02s and a gta01, so I might as well convert one. | 08:24 |
| johnx | jacekowski, errr, but this isn't for the N900 ... | 08:24 |
| jacekowski | as it's xloader that's setting up memory maps and stuff | 08:24 |
| jacekowski | ahhh | 08:24 |
| Ken-Young | jacekowski, Sorry, I'm off-topic. | 08:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: when I cnnect all my gta02 to a beowulf they are way faster than gta04 :-P | 08:30 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, How many of them do you have, personally? | 08:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last time I ztied to count them, It's been sth ~one dozen | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/zt/tr/ | 08:31 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: last time I tried to count them, It's been sth ~one dozen | 08:31 |
| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, I'm jealous - do you still use any of them? | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends which pile of junk and wreck you count in or not :-P | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | raaaaarely | 08:33 |
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| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, Has anyone looked into trying to make an extremely secure software stack for the Freerunner - something with full volume encryption? | 08:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | some 2 or 3 are even 850/1800/1900 - quite useless here | 08:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno | 08:35 |
| Ken-Young | Might be a viable niche product. | 08:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I fail to see the usecase and target user group | 08:38 |
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| Ken-Young | DocScrutinizer, Our marvelous department of Homeland Security has begun confiscating cell phone at the border. | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess the main usage will be for some openBB hackers for a long time still | 08:40 |
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| johnx | Ken-Young, and they'll tell you to hand over the keys or stand in contempt of court | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, those print-out-the-internet fools | 08:41 |
| Ken-Young | johnx, It's not clear - the courts have not ruled uniformly about whether or not you can be forced to reveal keys. | 08:41 |
| johnx | Tell me how it works out for you then :) | 08:42 |
| Ken-Young | johnx, And in any event,, a truly secure phone would allow you to have a separate hidden volume. | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody can force you to reveal keys, as nobody can prove existence of data in a well done crypted virtual volume or stegano-file | 08:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last time I checked, the cryptvolume solutions for linux did rather smart things like deleting with random bitnoise, and encoding both startpoint into volume and cypher key with the passphrase, so you can have arbitrary number of independent "volumes" in one physical volume, and nobody can tell if there's any data at all in it | 08:47 |
| johnx | I assume it also has a way for you to prove the key for a 'clean' volume which may appear to be the entire volume? | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | now embed this file into a (number of) .bmp file(s) and here you are | 08:48 |
| Ken-Young | johnx, Yes, you can do that. | 08:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | johnx: that's the idea | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then they will torture or jail you until you give out the 2nd, 3rd, and 42nd passphrase, so it's better to hide the data completely, inside e.g .bmp | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | see steganography | 08:50 |
| johnx | hilariously, if you give out the keys for the data in the .bmp files as well, they may hold and torture you for keys you don't have :) | 08:50 |
| johnx | double edged sword ;) | 08:51 |
| johnx | protip: don't get detained | 08:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the meaning in my first statement about 42nd passphrase | 08:51 |
| johnx | ah, parsed that as 4th :) | 08:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but the idiots they obviously are, they never will be able to even think about a set of family snapshots stored as .bmp or .png actually holds hidden info | 08:53 |
| johnx | unless there's an episode of CSI like that ;) | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | just don't publish the original unstegano'ed pictures on your facebook site :-P | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | otherwise they could cmp and find "oops they differ" | 08:54 |
| Ken-Young | I take a lot of pictures of dirty white walls... | 08:54 |
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| johnx | Ken-Young, How fascinating. I take pictures of analog static on televisions :) | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB a well embedded stegano info isn't detectable, but also is at least a bloat up of file size by factor 10, compared to netto hidden info | 08:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, you could get away with factor 4 even. like using the lower bits of 5/6/5 in a 8/8/8 bmp format | 08:59 |
| RST38h | johnx: you are not taking videos of that static? | 08:59 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Sorry, but if it blows up the file size by x10, how is it undetectable? | 09:00 |
| johnx | RST38h, just to mess with services that have to transcode video :) | 09:00 |
| RST38h | evil =) | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: the idea is to replace least significant bits of a real bmp with the split secret data | 09:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you're adding some rather unspectacular noise to an arbitrary picture | 09:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | Which is perfectly believable, these days | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steganography | 09:02 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Y'know, one thing you could easily do - take your data, compress/encrypt it, and name it to a .dll or .so. Most people wouldn't give it a second thought | 09:03 |
| RobbieThe1st | Provided it's in the right folder | 09:03 |
| johnx | C:\My Documents\Bomb plans.dll | 09:04 |
| RST38h | Doc: Yes but if it is 10 times bigger than normal then somethign is wrong, isn't it? | 09:04 |
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| RST38h | "Firefox 4.0 Beta 4 has been released for Android and Maemo - you can download it from this page. This release is the fastest performing Firefox 4 Beta for mobile yet. You will notice faster start-up, page load times and responsiveness to panning and zooming." | 09:07 |
| RST38h | Why don't I see any of these improvements? | 09:07 |
| johnx | because 5% faster than slow is still slow | 09:07 |
| Termana | NationStates... do I give more spending money to the Department of Defence or give in to the protesters outside my Parliament House that wish to "Disarm now!"? | 09:08 |
| RST38h | It actually feels slower than before | 09:08 |
| derf | Because of the checkered backround for areas that aren't rendered yet. | 09:08 |
| RST38h | Termana: I suggest you just buy more bear. | 09:08 |
| RST38h | s/bear/beer mhm | 09:08 |
| Termana | RST38h, no no, I think you were right | 09:09 |
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| Termana | More bear, would protect the nation just fine | 09:09 |
| RST38h | derf: It takes 40+ seconds just to start up | 09:09 |
| johnx | more bears are the answer to national self defense | 09:09 |
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| RST38h | derf: and hangs for up to 5 seconds at a time when scrolling, checkered background or not | 09:09 |
| derf | I certainly don't remember that the last time I used a recentl build on an N900. | 09:10 |
| derf | *recent | 09:10 |
| derf | It takes like 3 or 4 second to start on Android. | 09:10 |
| johnx | to be fair, microb gets to run in the background all the time | 09:10 |
| derf | *seconds | 09:10 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yea, but 40 seconds? | 09:10 |
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| RST38h | johnx: And you pretty much cannot scroll in Firefox, with these hangups | 09:11 |
| johnx | am playing with it now | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Takes 40+ seconds to load and render a web page too | 09:11 |
| johnx | with just mediaplaye rrunning it seems to take about 10-20s to start | 09:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (if it is 10 times bigger than normal) you don't get it. The covertext is of course same size it's always been. It just holds hidden info (around 1..20%) in least significant bits, or other uninteresting parts so the original picture, music, whatever covertext LOOKS unaltered | 09:11 |
| RST38h | I have Messages, Phone, and XTerm running | 09:11 |
| RST38h | Doc: Ah ok | 09:12 |
| RST38h | Doc: So, x10 thing was in relation to the efficiency? I.e. you need Nx10 image to store text of size S? | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 09:12 |
| RST38h | Maybe we should all switch to Android or something... | 09:13 |
| johnx | RST38h, you first | 09:14 |
| Termana | :p | 09:14 |
| johnx | I'd switch to webos before android, honestly | 09:14 |
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| RST38h | johnx: How about the latest crackberry devices? =) | 09:15 |
| johnx | ugh. I'd easily switch to N800+dumbphone first | 09:16 |
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| johnx | or zaurus with console-only PIM+motorola startac (sp?) | 09:16 |
| RST38h | "...Furthermore, if papal organs were donated, they would become relics in other bodies if he were eventually made a saint." | 09:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: hell, where would you finda functioning zaurus? | 09:17 |
| johnx | two on my desk :P | 09:17 |
| Termana | RST38h, ebay | 09:18 |
| johnx | I almost wish I picked up an extra last time I saw some in a store ... | 09:18 |
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| RST38h | johnx: the one I have seen was pretty beaten =) | 09:19 |
| johnx | mine are too :) Only real problems are battery related | 09:19 |
| johnx | and lack of recent kernel in the case of the SL-5500 | 09:19 |
| Termana | What do you guys think of the OQO? Besides it's bulkyness obviously | 09:20 |
| RST38h | It is a PC. | 09:20 |
| Termana | I could see myself picking up one of those... and RUNNING MINIX | 09:20 |
| Termana | :O | 09:20 |
| Termana | :p | 09:20 |
| johnx | Didn't they go bankrupt? | 09:20 |
| Termana | johnx, sure, but you can still find some around, especially on ebay | 09:20 |
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| johnx | RST38h, If I wanted another one, I'd just stop by here; http://www.flickr.com/photos/johnxx/452167911/ | 09:21 |
| Termana | Or, 11 on ebay at the moment to be precise | 09:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Instant gadget orgasm. | 09:22 |
| johnx | That was an awesome shop :) | 09:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | akihabara at night is so weird | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | no cars, and gibberish signs painted on the road | 09:33 |
| johnx | Ah, on sunday they used to close the street | 09:33 |
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| johnx | and yeah, I never did end up driving there ... so I still have no clue WTF some of the road signs mean | 09:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MOO | 10:29 |
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| wazd__ | DocScrutinizer: heya | 10:31 |
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| n900-space | hey all | 10:53 |
| n900-space | \o/ | 10:53 |
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| n900-space | can anyone tell me if there is a way to flash n900 even if the "keep pressing u key while connecting the usb cable to the n900 and the computer" doesnt work? | 10:57 |
| n900-space | if "u" key doesnt not result in the small usb icon on the top right | 10:57 |
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| wazd | n900-space: you should press and hold :) | 11:00 |
| wazd | untill it appears | 11:00 |
| n900-space | yes but its not working :( | 11:00 |
| n900-space | it never does, not for the last 3 days !! | 11:00 |
| wazd | hmm, let me check | 11:00 |
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| n900-space | it gives steady yellow light, a dim nokia screen shows up and nothing, it restarts after few seconds | 11:01 |
| n900-space | I wanna know onw thing | 11:01 |
| n900-space | the flasher document shows a "--usb-device" option, it says "Specify USB device to use (bus:device address)" | 11:02 |
| n900-space | brb | 11:02 |
| wazd | so, you are holding "u" and plugging n900 in? | 11:03 |
| wazd | cause that definitely works for me :) | 11:04 |
| n900-space | back | 11:04 |
| n900-space | yea i know | 11:04 |
| n900-space | it has always worked | 11:04 |
| n900-space | but not now | 11:04 |
| n900-space | its messed up | 11:04 |
| n900-space | i installed meego and things got messed up | 11:04 |
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| wazd | aah | 11:05 |
| n900-space | now half the things of maemo r flashed and half are not :$ | 11:05 |
| n900-space | and i'm sure its not the battery drain problem as well | 11:05 |
| wazd | sorry, then you need smarter guy than me :( | 11:05 |
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| n900-space | cuz when the device is off, and i press and hold power button, the bright white light comes up after which the whitescreen with nokia logo comes up | 11:06 |
| n900-space | seems like everyone is away | 11:06 |
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| n900-space | sigh | 11:08 |
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| Sicelo | n900-space: can you please try to search the irc logs... your problem has been discussed before | 11:20 |
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| Sicelo | (just a pity that i don't really remember how it was solved, but all I remember is that it is possible to flash without the U key) | 11:21 |
| n900-space | ok cool Sicelo , i will search | 11:21 |
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| Sicelo | and if your device is really bricked, you may want to search for NOLO as well in the logs | 11:24 |
| Sicelo | you will probably also find Jebba's work useful, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Debrick_without_reflashing.21 | 11:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, drive-by askers | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flatbatrecover | 11:44 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 11:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | never try flashing if your battery isn't COMPLETELY charged. If battery gets too low to convince NOLO entering flashing mode (USB icon on holding 'u'), and your system (as in OS, maemo) is not correctly working to charge up the battery, you're cought in a deadlock | 11:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | only (end user) solution: get a freshly charged battery, by whatever means. Thi smight involve buying an external charger, buying a new battery, or charging the battery in a compatible Nokia phone (see http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bl-5j/compatibility) | 11:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nota bene ~flatbatrecover DOES NOT work when device doesn't correctly boot up into maemo! | 12:01 |
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| alterego | Urgh, my brain | 12:13 |
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| RST38h | alterego: more drugs? | 12:13 |
| alterego | Or non compatible phone DocScrutinizer | 12:13 |
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| alterego | I charged it in an N810 | 12:13 |
| alterego | RST38h: yeah, alcohol. | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: might work, when you're not too lefthanded | 12:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: users running into flat bat deadlock probably aren't hardcore maemo addicts though, so it's not likely they got a "non-compatible" device that actually could be used to charge the BL-5J | 12:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, for completeness' sake: http://europe.nokia.com/find-products/accessories/all-accessories/power/batteries/nokia-battery-bp-4l/compatibility | 12:18 |
| pupnik | those are the good phones | 12:19 |
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| pupnik | does nokia have a more powerful battery? | 12:19 |
| * alterego wonders if his download rate is being killed by IO speed. | 12:19 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: to replace bl-5j? nope | 12:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whatever, seems neither n900-space nor Sicelo (for blaming him for broken link) are here, so never mind | 12:21 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: ping | 12:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | when one of them re-joins, you might want to point them to http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-05.log.html#t2011-02-05T11:44:28 | 12:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | moo lardman|gone | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ Venemo | 12:24 |
| Venemo | hi DocScrutinizer :) | 12:25 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 12:25 |
| RST38h | (in case you are alive) | 12:25 |
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| kerio | pupnik: buy a MUGEN battery | 12:28 |
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| pupnik | i bought a 3g card for my thinkpad tablet | 12:29 |
| pupnik | now i need power :) | 12:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MOAA POWAAA | 12:30 |
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| mc_teo | hey | 12:31 |
| mc_teo | im getting a SIM error | 12:32 |
| mc_teo | can someone have a look at my dmesg output? | 12:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, is this a sequel? | 12:32 |
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| mc_teo | a sequel as in happened before? | 12:33 |
| mc_teo | then no | 12:33 |
| mc_teo | http://paste.villavu.com/show/391 | 12:33 |
| mc_teo | is the dmesg log | 12:34 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: how come i don't see more people with modified battery packs for their laptops? from what i've read, you can hook up cells (same type) in parallel | 12:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: you actually can. Make sure they are all charged to same level (I.E. full) prior to doing so | 12:35 |
| lardman | pupnik: heavy | 12:35 |
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| Venemo | achipa: ping | 12:35 |
| lardman | and there are plugs everywhere these days | 12:35 |
| lardman | sockets even | 12:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and steampunk | 12:35 |
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| Venemo | achipa: why are the links broken on http://www.forum.nokia.com/Devices/Maemo/Documentation/ ? | 12:36 |
| lardman | steampunk everywhere? :) | 12:36 |
| Venemo | achipa: see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=936668#post936668 | 12:36 |
| pupnik | i wonder if you could build a portable laptop battery charger that was placed under the feet (desk, coffeetable) and pumped/driven by user | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: sequel as in http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-02-03.log.html#t2011-02-03T14:30:30 | 12:36 |
| pupnik | however generating even 10w power with legs is noticeable work | 12:37 |
| lardman | I read an article about piezo fabrics in New Scientist a while back iirc | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik: SpeedEvil is planning a similar dynamo device | 12:39 |
| mc_teo | DocScrutinizer: well i get like a big error, saying like all emergency calls are disabled, etc and a reboot might fix it | 12:39 |
| mc_teo | 10 reboots later, no joy | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, lemme check the pastie | 12:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nothing in dmesg | 12:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | try removing your SIM and see if then emergency calls are enabled | 12:42 |
| mc_teo | righto, brb | 12:43 |
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| mc_teo | DocScrutinizer: just tried that | 12:55 |
| mc_teo | same error, even with SIM card out | 12:55 |
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| mc_teo | takes unusually long time to reboot too | 12:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | reflash cmt | 12:55 |
| lcukx200 | damn autobuilder | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | i.e reflash :-D | 12:56 |
| mc_teo | emmc too? | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 12:56 |
| mc_teo | and to pr1.3? | 12:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, international version. US version is notorious to create issues with cmt | 12:57 |
| mc_teo | i am from ireland | 12:58 |
| mc_teo | i got it here | 12:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | hm, ok then :-D | 12:58 |
| mc_teo | so it could be uk version? | 12:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd use global version | 12:58 |
| alterego | I'm in the UK and I always use global version .. | 12:59 |
| mc_teo | and should i like back up all my stuff, like applications, etc, or would this replicate the error | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody ever found a difference not to mention a reason for UK / US / foo version | 12:59 |
| alterego | You should always back stuff up. | 12:59 |
| alterego | Is there even a UK pr1.3? | 12:59 |
| alterego | I thought they stopped the UK variant .. | 12:59 |
| mc_teo | i think so | 13:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: you should backup and restore, but test prior to restore | 13:00 |
| mc_teo | i read something on it earlier | 13:00 |
| lcukx200 | alterego, \o | 13:00 |
| mc_teo | okay | 13:00 |
| * lcukx200 waits for autobuilder to know whether it worked | 13:00 | |
| mc_teo | would my /home/user/* be safe? | 13:00 |
| alterego | Hey lcukx200 :) | 13:00 |
| Venemo | mc_teo: make a backup | 13:00 |
| mc_teo | or should i move that to MyDocs? | 13:01 |
| lcukx200 | if a build on autobuilder FAILS | 13:01 |
| mc_teo | its a lot of stuff | 13:01 |
| lcukx200 | can I up a new version with same number? | 13:01 |
| lcukx200 | I kinda like the one I am using | 13:01 |
| alterego | lcukx200: I'd increment a packaging version number like: 1.0.0-1 | 13:01 |
| ShadowJK | /home/user isn't safe | 13:01 |
| alterego | The 1.0.0-2 | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | alterego, I always bump package version | 13:02 |
| Venemo | lcukx200: you can upload a fix with the same version, yes | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | I am just seeing | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | awesome | 13:02 |
| Venemo | lcukx200: but if it succeeded, then you must increment the version number | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | ./mpackage | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | yes of course | 13:02 |
| lcukx200 | published etc | 13:02 |
| alterego | Nothing is ever safe :) | 13:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: it's not explicitly erased on flashing rootfs, but it's not 'safe' as in 'safe backup storage' | 13:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: creating a copy of complete /home/user (minus the MyDocs fs of course) is a good idea anyway | 13:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mc_teo: if you want to do even more, you can use backupmenu "app" to create a full logical image of / and /home | 13:06 |
| alterego | Always good to make regular backups, you never know what may happen. | 13:07 |
| alterego | Flashing is one good reason, but so is using your phone, you may drop it in a puddle tomorrow etc .. | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, I got a cron job on my PC, to rsync | 13:07 |
| alterego | (I hear of this all the time, people completely breaking their phones then bitching when Nokia Care wont retrieve their data.) | 13:08 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: lazy :P | 13:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Planning a similar device may be a bit strong. | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 13:08 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: I assume you're aware of car foot-pumps? | 13:08 |
| lcukx200 | now I have not tested this | 13:08 |
| lcukx200 | but if I push 2 interdependent packages to autobuilder without waiting for building will they both work | 13:09 |
| pupnik | nope SpeedEvil | 13:09 |
| lcukx200 | (assuming code has no bugs) | 13:09 |
| pupnik | what are those for | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Say 40Kg*10cm = 40J. Once every second - going some - is 40W. Optimistically, you might get 30W out | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | for inflatng tires | 13:09 |
| pupnik | ohhh ok | 13:09 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-25996-Double-Cylinder-Foot-Pump/dp/B0001K9RFI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296904200&sr=8-1 | 13:10 |
| pupnik | yeah but sitting at a desk means only a couple kg on each foot | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Indeed | 13:10 |
| pupnik | maybe the pump could be placed under the butt of the user :) | 13:10 |
| pupnik | lol | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Basically - 40W - sustained in any manner - is moderately hard work. | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: It has to involve large movements of big muscles. | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet | 13:11 |
| pupnik | i got my lappy down to about 10watts | 13:11 |
| pupnik | and that still seems a bit much | 13:11 |
| pupnik | but sometimes i 'sewing machine' my legs (bouncing them up and down) | 13:11 |
| pupnik | seems like usable energy | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: that's not quite what it seems. | 13:11 |
| pupnik | that's resonant yes | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: notice that when you're doing that, it's ... | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 13:12 |
| SpeedEvil | so the power you might expect is divided by Q | 13:12 |
| pupnik | ty | 13:12 |
| pupnik | i didn't think | 13:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | The 'least bad' highish power output you can do is on a cycle. | 13:12 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... Anyone know stuff about RTMPdumping and grabbing flash video streams? | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | But that's pretty much required to be quite large. | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: som | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | e | 13:13 |
| pupnik | SpeedEvil: how about a flat device with two coasting pads for your feet, and you push them back and forth on the floor? | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: I use get_iplayer to grab BBC streams, and also rtmpproxy to grab flash streams when played by the browser. | 13:13 |
| pupnik | forward and backward, alternating | 13:13 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: Not impossible, again. It's not going to be easy. | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik: mechanically annoying too, as you pretty much need the base to be as large as the slide | 13:14 |
| pupnik | i kind of like that one | 13:14 |
| pupnik | yes | 13:14 |
| RobbieThe1st | Alright. I saw this little video on Wired, and decided to download it: http://www.uncontactedtribes.org/brazilfootage | 13:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's face it: 1 or 2W are easy, 10 and up real hard work | 13:14 |
| SpeedEvil | I was hoping to make a footpump class device that folded up pretty much into a n900 shape and size. | 13:14 |
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| SpeedEvil | (though not weight) | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | And that was able to charge a n900 in 100 steps or so. | 13:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | It's apparently using 'jwplayer', and has a config file of http://assets.uncontactedtribes.org/films/356/config.xml which links to http://assets.uncontactedtribes.org/films/356/streams.rss | 13:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: I never worked out how to do this. | 13:15 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: It seemed too hard, and rtmpproxy just worked | 13:16 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... | 13:16 |
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| SpeedEvil | Err | 13:16 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean rtmpsuck | 13:16 |
| SpeedEvil | With the iptables wrapper | 13:16 |
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| RobbieThe1st | SpeedEvil: Hm, how do you use rtmpsuck again? | 13:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | I've got it, but I can't find any instructions | 13:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | iptables -t nat -A OUTPUT -p tcp --dport 1935 -m owner \! --uid-owner proxy \ | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | -j REDIRECT | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | ./rtmpsuck --debug | 13:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | Just run that as a command? | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | With rtmpsuck setuid to 'proxy' | 13:22 |
| SpeedEvil | you probably don't actually need the --debug | 13:23 |
| * lcukx200 paces | 13:23 | |
| SpeedEvil | It's documented in the README in the rtmpdump source | 13:24 |
| lcukx200 | hrm | 13:24 |
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| lcukx200 | at the bottom of the build log from autobuilder | 13:25 |
| lcukx200 | for diablo, it had: | 13:26 |
| lcukx200 | [2011-02-05 13:20:57] liqbook 0.1.0 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository | 13:26 |
| lcukx200 | but that line is missing from the fremantle one :S | 13:26 |
| lcukx200 | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/liqbook_0.1.0/summary.log | 13:26 |
| lcukx200 | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/liqbook_0.1.0/summary.log | 13:26 |
| Venemo | could someone tell me the output of 'dpkg -l | grep libqt4' on an N810? | 13:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: you possibly won't also have the right iptables modules fot that to work | 13:27 |
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| pupnik | know of any stealth cameras that fit in a power socket? http://static.rp-online.de/layout/fotos/457x325/30210-strom_steckdose.jpg | 13:30 |
| RobbieThe1st | SpeedEvil: It actually -did- work. I'm absolutely amazed | 13:30 |
| mc_teo | ~flashing | 13:31 |
| infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:31 |
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| lardman | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=68714 someone doing what I was talking about yesterday | 13:31 |
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| lardman | using OpenGL on-device for doing processing rather than graphics stuff | 13:32 |
| pupnik | very neat, lardman | 13:32 |
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| lardman | though having an OpenCL impl would be better | 13:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: Great! | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: It would be awesome if it could also spit out what it understood of the negotiation, so you could point rtmpdump to it seperately | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: I want to do a rtmpproxy that transcodes to a lower bandwidth - but I don't have the energy. | 13:35 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Why'd you want -lower- bandwidth? | 13:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | I mean, most internet streams are low enough already :\ | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: My connection sometimes goes down to 160K. | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | At these times, I would like at least audio of some video streams, with maybe a bit of picture, even if I can't get good video. | 13:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | So you'd run the proxy on a remotely hosted machine? | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | RobbieThe1st: yes. | 13:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | That does make sense | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Also good for mobile use of course. In many cases you don't actually need even 240p video, if you're watching video on the train. | 13:38 |
| mc_teo | DocScrutinizer: i have nitdroid installed with multiboot, i presume this will erase it too? | 13:39 |
| Venemo | what is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and | 13:43 |
| Venemo | what is the good practice for packaging something both for fremantle and diablo? | 13:43 |
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| RST38h | Jaaksi posted the first message from HP at his blog | 13:49 |
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| mc_teo | just finished flashing | 13:56 |
| mc_teo | still taking a while to boot, therefore i am not too optimistic | 13:56 |
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| Venemo | RST38h: it is the second one actually | 13:57 |
| MohammadAG | who has a USB 3G modem here? | 13:58 |
| mc_teo | me | 13:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Me | 13:58 |
| mc_teo | i have it connected to a wireless router, though | 13:59 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: does two N900s count? | 13:59 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 13:59 |
| MohammadAG | I tried the sim of one in the N900 and it connects to the internet without problems | 14:00 |
| MohammadAG | so why do people want h-e-n drivers for them? | 14:00 |
| mc_teo | ive never had a problem | 14:01 |
| mc_teo | if dont want to use laptop with 3g modem | 14:01 |
| mc_teo | i just swap sims, and it works grand | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Some providers lock the SIM. | 14:01 |
| MohammadAG | but why use a 3G modem on the N900? | 14:01 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 14:01 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Also, you can't recieve calls on the n900 if you do that. | 14:01 |
| mc_teo | DocScrutinizer: well my SIM works after rebooting, thanks | 14:02 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, how come? | 14:02 |
| mc_teo | lol, greeting by a nokia text | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: Because the new SIM hasn't got the same number. | 14:02 |
| mc_teo | since your using 3g modems sim, MohammadAG, rather than regular | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: And in at least one of my SIMs cases, it's only data, no SMS or voice. | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - it will do inbound SMS | 14:03 |
| MohammadAG | so 3G modem sims differ? | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: no. | 14:03 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: different mobile accounts differ. | 14:03 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 14:03 |
| mc_teo | i wouldnt think they differ, just the mobile provider has them marked as data-only | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: They may not offer various services, or be extremely expensive for some, or be locked to one 'phone' | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG | one more question, do two 3G devices affect each other? | 14:04 |
| mc_teo | and will charge tons if used for sms or calls | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: yes, but not much. | 14:04 |
| MohammadAG | I have the N900 and the modem close to each other and they're both connected to 3G | 14:04 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: if they are right next to each other, and active, you may get some interference. | 14:05 |
| SpeedEvil | In some modes | 14:05 |
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| mc_teo | having to flash my phone before breakfast, not the best start to the morning | 14:05 |
| Venemo | so MohammadAG, if I have a main SIM whose phone number everyone knows but I don't have a data plan on it and I have a 3G modem with a SIM which has a data plan but doesn't have a phone plan, then if I swap SIM cards, noone will be able to call me. | 14:05 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, call diverting :P | 14:06 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG: call diverting also costs money. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: My mobile data SIM does not actually support voice calls - at all. | 14:06 |
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| mc_teo | hmm, when did the n900 get sound effects? | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: so I can't even in principle redirect. | 14:06 |
| SpeedEvil | mc_teo: ages ago | 14:07 |
| Venemo | mc_teo: it always had them | 14:07 |
| mc_teo | pre pr1.2? | 14:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | mc_teo: The noise when you plug it in, the haptic noise, the explosion in a cymbal factory of battery run out. | 14:07 |
| Sc0rpius | yes | 14:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | I think even in PR1.l0 | 14:07 |
| SpeedEvil | 1.0 | 14:07 |
| Sc0rpius | "Enable system sounds" in Settings | 14:07 |
| Sc0rpius | in profile settings | 14:07 |
| Sc0rpius | since the phone exists it has that option | 14:08 |
| mc_teo | i flashed pr1.2 and ota to pr1.3 when they first came out, and have never heard them | 14:08 |
| mc_teo | perhaps i had them muted | 14:08 |
| MohammadAG | The N8 inhertied the battery low and battery empty sounds from the N900 | 14:08 |
| MohammadAG | though battery empty doesn't stutter on the N8 | 14:09 |
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| alterego | Heh | 14:11 |
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| Venemo | MohammadAG: it doesn't stutter on my N900 either | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, it stutters on all N900's I've seen | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | the multiple beeps at the end of it | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | they're only 3, they seem like 9 or something on the N900 | 14:24 |
| alterego | bbl | 14:25 |
| Venemo | hmm | 14:25 |
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| mc_teo | lol | 14:49 |
| achipa | Venemo: thx for the note - will check with the webteam on monday | 14:51 |
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| Venemo | achipa: thx | 14:52 |
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| mc_teo | damn | 15:20 |
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| mc_teo | not the same error | 15:20 |
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| mc_teo | but the sim keeps... i dont know how to describe it | 15:20 |
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| mc_teo | its like it logouts every so often | 15:20 |
| mc_teo | ive had trouble before with this sim card | 15:21 |
| mc_teo | my old phone was a sony ericsson w810i | 15:21 |
| mc_teo | which had a sim holder, where you needed to slide it out | 15:21 |
| mc_teo | it seemed a guarenteed way to break the sim card | 15:22 |
| mc_teo | so perhaps i damaged it there | 15:22 |
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| ShadowJK | I had a problem where I got the crossed out sim icon | 15:24 |
| frits_ | I'm experiencing (very) distorted phone calls. I'm running kernel-power (not overclocked). I RMA'd my phone a while ago because of this, but it wasn't fixed when it came back (although they told me they "replaced some parts"). It seems that the distortion happens almost always while connected to a 3G network and frequently while connected to a 2G network. Even the ringing itself when calling someone is distorted and the person I'm calling with is hearing me | 15:25 |
| frits_ | (very) distorted as well. Could someone help me with this? Or should I RMA the phone again :( ? | 15:25 |
| ShadowJK | and also notification about all telephony disabled | 15:25 |
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| isak | hello, is it possible to merge conversations from a backup ? | 15:26 |
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| RST38h | http://exiledonline.com/war-nerd-spartacus-live-on-al-jazeera/ | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | frits_: The mic is distorted, or the speakers? | 15:32 |
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| mc_teo | ShadowJK: yes? did you resolve it? | 15:36 |
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| mc_teo | if so how/ | 15:38 |
| mc_teo | ? | 15:38 |
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| ShadowJK | no I tried with several different sim cards | 15:38 |
| ShadowJK | same thing | 15:38 |
| ShadowJK | so I sent it to nokia for repairä | 15:39 |
| ShadowJK | still waiting on it to come back | 15:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MBWTqfCFd0&feature=related - neat. Code deobfuscation by optimisation. | 15:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Basically, automatically eliminate dead paths. | 15:43 |
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| jacekowski | is there any way to stream N900 camera video to interweb | 16:03 |
| jacekowski | to multiple people | 16:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | It'd be lovely if flash knew how to work the camera. | 16:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I assume you mean some nice way, not a hack involving mencoder, and netpipes? | 16:05 |
| frits_ | SpeedEvil: I'm sorry, I didn't read your respons (timed out). Both are distorted | 16:06 |
| frits_ | SpeedEvil: Though I'd check the logs if someone replied and saw you did :) | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | frits_: Does recording auio, or playing back audio suffer from the same distortion? | 16:07 |
| frits_ | SpeedEvil: No, only phone calls | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | have you tried recording audio? | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/packages/view/recaller/ | 16:08 |
| frits_ | Not yet, I'll try | 16:08 |
| frits_ | The distortion seems random, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't. Also, sometimes both me and the other person are distorted and the other time just one of us | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 16:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd. | 16:09 |
| frits_ | I'm really thinking it is some HW problem, but I hate to RMA it again for obvious reasons | 16:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | I'd try seeing if same issue hits with SIP. Does it happen often? | 16:10 |
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| Sicelo | ~rma | 16:10 |
| infobot | rma is, like, Return Materials Authorisation, or the process you go through when you want to return a dead part to a manufacturer in exchange for a new one | 16:10 |
| frits_ | SIP? You mean stuff like Skype etc? If so, I'm not subscribed to any of those services :-/ | 16:11 |
| frits_ | It happens almost alwasy while connected to a 3G network and less frequently while connected to a 2G network (although still often) | 16:12 |
| BCMM | frits_: skype doesn't use SIP | 16:13 |
| BCMM | frits_: skype has a propriatary protocol of it's own | 16:13 |
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| frits_ | ~sip | 16:14 |
| infobot | sip is probably Session Initiation Protocol, http://www.cs.columbia.edu/sip/ (see RFC 3261) It's HIP to be SIP! | 16:14 |
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| frits_ | BCMM: don't know what SIP mean to be honest, I only make 'regular phone calls? | 16:15 |
| frits_ | *means | 16:15 |
| frits_ | To me it looks like something goes wrong decoding/encoding the phone signal when calling, but I ain't no expert on that | 16:16 |
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| frits_ | I got to go now. I'll install recaller and see what it records when calling. I hope I'll get wiser on this issue and if not, I guess I'll have to say goodbey to my phone for a while again. Anyway, thank you for your help | 16:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: moinmoin | 17:44 |
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| javispedro | morning | 17:45 |
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| RST38h | mourning javispedro | 17:48 |
| RST38h | seen a blog post by Ari Jaaksi about how happy he is at HP? | 17:48 |
| javispedro | oh | 17:48 |
| * javispedro googles | 17:49 | |
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| javispedro | heh, yet another os poll =) | 17:50 |
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| * GAN900 facepalms. | 17:51 | |
| GAN900 | This is gonna be a long Saturday. | 17:51 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Something wrong? | 17:51 |
| javispedro | not for me, I'd _wish_ it was a long Saturday ;) | 17:51 |
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| RST38h | Well, my Saturday is almost over, so a bit late for wishing | 17:52 |
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| * javispedro laughs slightly at the ari's blog trolls https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=16130344&postID=6981172879459598430 | 17:52 | |
| RST38h | some sad shit is being pointlessly unhappy, indeed. | 17:53 |
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| * javispedro now finds a proper use for the lenovo: wall mount it. | 17:55 | |
| GAN900 | RST38h, cosmos are out of alignment again | 17:55 |
| RST38h | javispedro: on the inside of a restroom door. | 17:56 |
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| RST38h | GAN: the usual then | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | who is Ari Jaaksi? | 17:58 |
| javispedro | RST38h: running windows media center, on a restroom. brilliant!! | 17:58 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, really? | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah | 17:59 |
| RST38h | javis: the lenovo can do windows media center? hmmm | 17:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just another Nokia victim | 18:00 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: i've seen meego posters at fosdem | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ... | 18:01 |
| javispedro | RST38h: it can if you can stand the choppy framerates | 18:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer waiting for the point | 18:01 | |
| javispedro | for some reason 720p videos play better than the UI. | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hw gfx accel? | 18:02 |
| javispedro | nope, the card only does mpeg2 | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm | 18:02 |
| javispedro | I guess it's because the UI is written in .NET =) | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 18:02 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: no maemo posters | 18:04 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: == more people care about meego | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | taadaaaa | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's just we don't care about people :-P | 18:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer is a late adopter by nature - so doesn't give a flying F about random hype for future developments | 18:06 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | I happily stay with desktop linux version of 2008, until some shit *forces* me to upgrade, which is always a PITA day (err week, month) in my life | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got 2 N900, one's running PR1.1 with PK47, the other happily works on PR1.2 as my daily phone | 18:09 |
| jacekowski | PK47? | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | powerkernel with uBoot, v47 | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc | 18:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm NOT eager to get a working meego version eventually, finally. Probably final meego sucks same way the very first mickey mouse webpages sucked | 18:12 |
| johnx | ever the optimist :) | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and all I hear of facts reported about meego UI seems to support that notion | 18:13 |
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| RST38h | Hey, don't put down the upcoming meego ui | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/very first micke mouse/ very first mickey-mousey meego/ | 18:14 |
| RST38h | I am sure the best UX engineers from Nokia are designing it as we speak | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I bet the dresscode in this workgroup is similar to that of disneyland :-P | 18:15 |
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| Venemo | alterego: you lied to me :P | 18:15 |
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| Venemo | alterego: ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); makes it actually slower. | 18:16 |
| johnx | Isnt someone trying to forward port the Maemo 5 window management to Meego? | 18:16 |
| RST38h | Doc:I am sure you mean it in a good, well-natured way! | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | suuuure | 18:16 |
| * RST38h is being positive tonight | 18:16 | |
| Venemo | johnx: if you mean hildon-desktop, then yes, smoku and I are | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: I am well aware Nokia needs to address the *young* audience | 18:17 |
| Venemo | alterego: and I'm not sure if this entire QGraphicsView thing made it any faster at all. | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | those that never in their life seen a decent desktop | 18:17 |
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| johnx | Venemo, ah, keen. A lot of us might be relying on that depending on that :) | 18:17 |
| RST38h | Doc: Of course! | 18:17 |
| Venemo | johnx: 'that' being what? | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm growing gray and grumpy, and am happy with diablo hildon | 18:18 |
| johnx | the forwared-ported hildon-desktop | 18:18 |
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| Venemo | okay johnx :) | 18:18 |
| johnx | in case the 'native' Meego UI ends up being a regression | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: yo da man!! | 18:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: You will need gtk+ libs then, too | 18:19 |
| johnx | errr, s/depending/wishing you the best and relying on your work/g | 18:20 |
| johnx | don't get the wrong idea :) | 18:20 |
| johnx | also: good morning | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego UI *is* a regression by definition | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard... | 18:21 |
| Venemo | hehe | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | simplified to FUBAR | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka Mickey Mouse!!! | 18:22 |
| RST38h | So, could you give a URL of the definition? | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and honestly, this goes together well with parts of the core OS systems I looked at | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: this definition is kept in a vitrine at home of one of the 4 attendants of that legendary pub meeting | 18:24 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: which systems? | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's the paper towel they scribbled meego foundation on | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: e.g sensorfw | 18:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/vitrine/glass showcase/ | 18:27 |
| Venemo | okay, I don't get this. | 18:28 |
| Venemo | why is my app slower with hw acceleration enabled than without it? | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | glamo effect? | 18:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: glamo? | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~glamo | 18:28 |
| infobot | somebody said glamo was http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Alists.openmoko.org+glamo+raster, or http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/gta03/2009-April/000114.html | 18:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (a very poorly built and poorly integrated gfx chip of OM Freerunner) | 18:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | overhead to operate the sparse incomplete gfx accel was higher than doing same cmpletely in sw | 18:30 |
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| Venemo | :D | 18:31 |
| Venemo | well I can tell that it is indeed hw accelerated as the CPU usage is 0 | 18:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e. there's no use in doing one operation on the gfx card, if for the next operation on same dataset you need to transfer everything back to main menory | 18:31 |
| johnx | Well that's good in the long run anyways | 18:31 |
| Venemo | however the puzzle pieces' movement became a lot slower and clumsy :( | 18:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sounds exactly like glamo effect | 18:32 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: yeah, but lots of more advanced apps than mine can run ot it smoothly | 18:33 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: so the problem must be with my app | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe with your type of gfx operations | 18:33 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: my type of gfx operations is ui->graphicsView->setViewport(new QGLWidget()); :P | 18:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | moving around in memory huge chunks of graphic data tends to slow down everything, while it *looks like* nothing really got any load. DMA for example doesn't actually show up in CPU load | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I have NFC what's actual overhead to setup GL | 18:35 |
| johnx | I was about to say it sounds a bit like it could be something like texture swapping, but I didn't want to lead you down the wrong path | 18:35 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: okkay. but then why can more advanced apps, eg 3D games, run on it well, while my 2D thingy with a bunch of pixmap doesn't? | 18:35 |
| johnx | too many pixmaps to fit in graphics memory? | 18:35 |
| Venemo | johnx: I don't think so. | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3D maybe is doing more GL in a 'non-interruptable' way? | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | too simple GL operations that do too many callbacks to CPU too frequently? | 18:36 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, he was saying CPU usage was sitting around 0 | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know | 18:37 |
| johnx | Uhm, this is totally out of left field ... but is the SGX's clock attached to the CPU clock in any way? | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite possible CPU gets blocked waiting for GL to finish :-P | 18:37 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I've got no idea how QGL* works. | 18:38 |
| * DocScrutinizer neither | 18:38 | |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it worked well with some simple 3D demos I tried | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | you probably want to talk to rasterman about it | 18:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alas he got kicked in this chan several times, so won't come back anymore. You need to find him somewhere else | 18:39 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, this channel? | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 18:40 |
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| GAN900 | Hum, when, by whom and for what? | 18:40 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I can /query him anyway. but who is he? | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | long ago, by crashanddie, one time for writing so fast it looked like pasting, another time for using u instead of you | 18:41 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: anyway, the first thing I would blame is the lots of fp calculations that the QGraphicsView fw do | 18:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: ~raterman | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: ~rasterman | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~rasterman | 18:44 |
| infobot | i guess rasterman is the guy that broke the mold with window managers and did stuff that people thought impossible. | 18:44 |
| Venemo | and he's familiar with QGL*? | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen raster | 18:44 |
| infobot | raster <raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 5d 7h 14m 21s ago, saying: 'jonwil: the channel disapproves of you :)'. | 18:44 |
| Venemo | ~seen rasterman | 18:45 |
| infobot | i haven't seen 'rasterman', Venemo | 18:45 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: there is a person with that nick online right now | 18:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=Me | 18:45 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it doesn't say too much. | 18:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://www.rasterman.com/index.php?page=Main | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ex OM colleague | 18:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: in the news section, there's interesting stuff | 18:50 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: search for 'Image Blend Occlude', 'Image Data ARGB', and 'Image Data ARGB Alpha' | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: when I suggest you might want to talk to rater, then you can trust in that suggestion ;-D | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster* darn | 18:52 |
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| johnx | but what he might convince you is that there's an insanely fast way to do it in software ;) | 18:53 |
| RST38h | Nah, raster is all for OpenGL nowadays :) | 18:53 |
| johnx | that's a bit of a change | 18:53 |
| RST38h | probably just said "fuck it all" at some point and joined "the revolution" | 18:54 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, johnx: after seeing those benchmarks, I now know what the problem was. | 18:54 |
| Venemo | I knew I'll need to sanitize my code in some time... just didn't expect it to be this soon :P | 18:55 |
| johnx | better sooner than later :) | 18:55 |
| johnx | (though I always avoid fixing my own hacks ...) | 18:56 |
| Venemo | thing is, sadly what I was doing fell into the categories with negative changes in FPS. but I can fix that. | 18:56 |
| javispedro | Venemo: fullscreen? | 18:56 |
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| javispedro | not to mention that yes, you're very probably doing 2d on software faster than the sgx, unless you're talking bout rotation&zooming of many things | 18:57 |
| javispedro | many things that don't change per frame ;) | 18:58 |
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| Venemo | javispedro: the puzzle pieces were large pixmaps whose area composed of a small actual image and the rest of them were transparent | 18:58 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Still, you have to load that pixmap into PVR | 18:58 |
| RST38h | takes time | 18:58 |
| Venemo | javispedro: now that I removed the transparent parts, performance is acceptable | 18:59 |
| javispedro | "how did you do that"? | 18:59 |
| Venemo | javispedro: plus, the pixmaps are smaller | 18:59 |
| Venemo | javispedro: as I said, by making insane code saner. | 18:59 |
| javispedro | you probably changed from 32bpp textures to 16bpp | 18:59 |
| javispedro | thereby nearly halfing the bandwidth. | 19:00 |
| javispedro | my suggestion is that if you're interested in the alpha textures experiment with the pvr format | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, what I said. too simple for GL | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | too much overhead | 19:01 |
| Venemo | javispedro: no, nothing like that | 19:01 |
| javispedro | the good thing is that you can mostly estimate the overhead as constant | 19:02 |
| RST38h | Doc: Mostly because PVR does not allow you to have textures in memory, you have to load them | 19:02 |
| Venemo | javispedro: as I said, the pixmaps were large, with most parts simply transparent. now they are small with no transparent parts. | 19:02 |
| RST38h | And loading textures is slowwwww | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 19:02 |
| javispedro | Venemo: ah, well. | 19:02 |
| RST38h | Which works pretty well with the MIDP 3D APIs but fails for everything else | 19:03 |
| johnx | huh. my guess of texture swapping was actually close :) | 19:03 |
| javispedro | tmo: "Has NITDROID project been aborted ?????? " (clearly, all of their developers have been killed, the money reassigned somewhere and their x-files shredded) | 19:03 |
| RST38h | Of cause it has been killed! | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hoooooray! | 19:04 |
| RST38h | Now, let us all have a funeral service right in that thread! | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | with champagne and shit | 19:04 |
| RST38h | rrright | 19:04 |
| javispedro | RST38h: supposedly, you were being positive tonight ;) | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | but wait, that means tmo... brrrrrr, not in the right mood for that now | 19:05 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Am I not suggesting a festive celebration of sorts? =) | 19:05 |
| javispedro | heh, touché. | 19:06 |
| johnx | It'd be more Irish wake style :) | 19:06 |
| johnx | Sure, we'd drink and get in fights, but it's because we loved the idea of android on N900 ... | 19:06 |
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| GAN900 | johnx, do we? | 19:11 |
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| johnx | GAN900, sarcasm was happening there | 19:13 |
| johnx | I think my IRC client stripped the sarcasm tag ... | 19:13 |
| javispedro | evil non-standard irc clients | 19:13 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jan/20/rise-of-the-sarcmark | 19:14 |
| fellu | :D | 19:14 |
| johnx | In my case I should just mark things that aren't meant sarcastically ... | 19:14 |
| johnx | or include the sarcmark in my sig and negate it later if I need to | 19:14 |
| pupnik | http://www.warmplace.ru/soft/sunvox/ synth/tracker for iphone/palm/linux/windows | 19:15 |
| pupnik | try it with preenv | 19:15 |
| javispedro | palm as in palmos, not webos | 19:15 |
| javispedro | =) | 19:15 |
| GAN900 | johnx, ah, right. | 19:15 |
| javispedro | so, try it with garnetvm | 19:15 |
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| javispedro | pupnik^^ | 19:15 |
| pupnik | oh oops | 19:16 |
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| javispedro | it will probably work on the n8x0 | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, no sarcmark here, or do I simply miss the unicode point? | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I got ¡ | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | johnx: not sarcasm obviously is !¡ then ;-) | 19:20 |
| johnx | or a 0 length exclamatory sentence in Spanish :D | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, that'd be ¡! | 19:22 |
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| johnx | true, true. unless it was backwards day | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, infobot needs a new definition of factoid sarcasm¡ | 19:35 |
| pupnik_ | :) | 19:37 |
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| pupnik_ | considering how useless other phones are, 250 eu isn't bad for a used N900 | 19:40 |
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| LjL | 250 is about the average price for it, although you can get one for less | 19:41 |
| LjL | used to cost more not too many months ago | 19:42 |
| chx | so. what will Nokia announce Friday? Merger with BlackBerry? Partnership with HP to use WebOS? what else can they do to save themselves? Waving a new handset and showing how cool it is wont cut it | 19:42 |
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| pupnik_ | how about saying 'screw the US market' | 19:43 |
| johnx | They'll announce chx as head of marketing :) | 19:43 |
| chx | LOL | 19:43 |
| SpeedEvil | chx: Nice shiny completely open handset with a partially working OS, sold at cost to devs. | 19:44 |
| chx | pupnik_: that's another strategy. relegate themselves to the mid-to-low end , curb R&D costs and leverage the huge selling network. sure. | 19:44 |
| chx | SpeedEvil: haha | 19:44 |
| pupnik_ | it's not a low-end strategy. the USA is the low end. | 19:44 |
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| * RST38h sees strategists discussing the strategy@ | 19:45 | |
| RST38h | ! | 19:45 |
| pupnik_ | heheh | 19:45 |
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| pupnik_ | "I gots a shineyyy smartfoone and it onlyee costed me a hunnred dollars!" (Says the USian locked-down and enslave by contract) | 19:46 |
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| pupnik_ | +d | 19:47 |
| RST38h | who cares what the sheep say? | 19:47 |
| johnx | RST38h, the sheep whisperer? | 19:48 |
| RST38h | johnx: possibly, but what do I know of these... | 19:48 |
| johnx | I think I'm supposed to make some joke about RST38h and sheep now :) | 19:49 |
| johnx | pupnik_, Just so you know, in a lot of cases you don't actually end up with a cheaper plan even if you bring your own phone | 19:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: also true | 19:50 |
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| RST38h | so, you are fucked either way | 19:50 |
| derf | Hence the sheep. | 19:50 |
| johnx | and switching carriers here pretty much means getting a new phone, so a lot of people don't really see a 2-year subsidized deal as all that bad | 19:50 |
| johnx | RST38h, but the Canadians are screwed even worse | 19:51 |
| chx | not any more | 19:51 |
| chx | we are now fairly free | 19:51 |
| RST38h | derf: Just because you understand you are among the sheep,does not give you a ticket out of the farm =) | 19:51 |
| johnx | ah, did someone do something with the 1700/2100 spectrum? | 19:51 |
| chx | with Bell/Telus implements a standard HSDPA network (dudee what) second Mobilicty and Wind builds AWS networks | 19:52 |
| chx | johnx: http://mobilicity.ca/ and http://www.windmobile.ca/ | 19:52 |
| johnx | so you can switch companies, but do you actually get better monthly rates by bringing your own phone? | 19:52 |
| chx | johnx: but, now, really Bell / Telus too in case you do not barf out in the store just to deal with them | 19:53 |
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| chx | johnx: yes | 19:53 |
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| chx | johnx: i am running my N900 on Wind and they charged me, i think 10 dollars for the SIM, i pay after and have no contract. Blis. | 19:53 |
| RST38h | what are traffic costs? | 19:54 |
| johnx | yeah, no contract, but I mean are the *monthly* rates lower than if you'd gotten a phone on contract? | 19:54 |
| chx | johnx: there are no contracts. you can't sign one | 19:54 |
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| johnx | ah. interesting | 19:54 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Nokia reportedly planning 'organizational changes,' mobile phones exec on the outs | 19:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: similar to here I guess | 19:55 |
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| chx | johnx: http://www2.windmobile.ca/en/Pages/WINDtab.aspx this is the version of "subsized" Wind-style | 19:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: $5 for the SIM and the money goes to your account. | 19:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: And then you just fill it up using any cell phone shop or a machine at the street or an ATM | 19:56 |
| johnx | chx, that's fairly recent, isn't it? | 19:56 |
| chx | it is | 19:56 |
| chx | the only gotcha with Wind is that the mobile data have a limited (but not terribly limited) amount of ports. You need a laptop plan (you can't combine that with a voice plan) to have all ports | 19:56 |
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| RST38h | the paper stated that Mary T. McDowell, a bigwig in the mobile phones unit, as well as Niklas Savander, the manager of the markets unit, could be on the outs. Moreover, Kai Oistamo (Chief Development Officer) and Tero Ojanpera, the manager responsible for services and mobile solutions, may also be enjoying their final weekends as Nokia employees. | 19:57 |
| chx | johnx: http://www2.windmobile.ca/WIND%20Docs/Fair-Usage-Policy.pdf this is the fair use policy for the unlimited plans. it's not unreasonable. | 19:57 |
| * RST38h wonders if this will be the only MWC announcement from Nokia =) | 19:57 | |
| johnx | and it looks like your ISPs didn't get away with that law they were trying to put through about billing per GB. | 19:57 |
| chx | no, they didnt | 19:58 |
| RST38h | johnx: I am billed per GB. Nothing wrong with that. | 19:58 |
| chx | you cant imagine the outrage | 19:58 |
| RST38h | johnx: Still paying twice less than I would in the US, at much higher speeds | 19:58 |
| johnx | RST38h, Let me find the chart of bandwidth costs in Canada. It would have ended up quite expensive for them if the law had gone through ;) | 19:59 |
| chx | $2 per gigabyte | 19:59 |
| chx | it was not pretty | 19:59 |
| RST38h | johnx: Cryptosocialists. They cross the border and walk among us unnoticed. (C)Michael Moore | 20:00 |
| luke-jr | that IS unreasonable | 20:00 |
| luke-jr | 5 GB/mo is nothing | 20:00 |
| chx | Bashing the Canadians are "socialists" by a nutjub like Michael Moore.... | 20:01 |
| chx | erm... | 20:01 |
| chx | I did live in a socialist country | 20:01 |
| RST38h | chx: No, only the second sentence is attributed to him | 20:01 |
| chx | and now, I do live in Canada | 20:02 |
| RST38h | chx: And even that was made *before* he became the dork on a mission he is right now | 20:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, part of the problem is that the ISPs were into the content&telephony game as well, so there was a huge conflict of interest | 20:02 |
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| chx | If anyone calls Canada a socialist country they do not have the shortest idea of what socialism is | 20:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: Eh.. Not like you would need a conflict of interest to charge higher rates, as long as customers pay them | 20:02 |
| chx | just fyi, giving the poor health care is not socialism. It's called "humanity" :P | 20:03 |
| RST38h | chx: Notice the Crypto- prefix | 20:03 |
| RST38h | It should have rung a bell or two... | 20:03 |
| chx | even Crypto- is a faaaaar overshot | 20:03 |
| chx | i find it... hilarious? sad? when people from the first world throw that world around | 20:03 |
| johnx | RST38h, the thought being that they'd ramp up the bandwidth cost to push people away from streaming movies from a 3rd party, then offer their own overpriced movie-streaming plan that was bandwidth exempt | 20:03 |
| chx | try to live in one first, dude. | 20:03 |
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| * GAN900 chuckles. | 20:04 | |
| RST38h | chx <-- suddenly detonated | 20:04 |
| RST38h | johnx: Torrent it is. | 20:04 |
| RST38h | johnx: And lawyers fighting over a service that only a few people are interested in, they are hilarious | 20:05 |
| johnx | RST38h, uhm, see the part about insanely high per GB bandwidth costs + throttling | 20:05 |
| chx | yeah that was the plan up until the point when people have flooded Mr. Clement's office with such an amount of mail that even the prime minister needed to stand up and say "we wont let this happen" | 20:05 |
| johnx | RST38h, netflix has gotten somewhat popular in the US&Canada | 20:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: yes but that was since the DVD mailing time | 20:06 |
| GAN900 | johnx, the problem of monopolies. | 20:07 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Telcos are natural monopolies, there is only a few wires going into your home and telcos own 'em | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, sort of. | 20:08 |
| RST38h | GAN: Hence their protests against municipal WiFi | 20:08 |
| RST38h | Which they apparently managed t kill almost everywhere in the US, right? | 20:08 |
| johnx | RST38h, article from last year says: 15 million subscribers of which 60% stream content | 20:08 |
| johnx | http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/21/netflix-users/ | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | That combined with the crazy regulatory requirements imposed by the FCC makes it impossible for small companies to compete | 20:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: Wow | 20:09 |
| johnx | it's admittedly a pretty slick service | 20:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: do they still charge the same as they charged for mail-in DVDs? | 20:10 |
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| johnx | RST38h, they just added the streaming part free. Then later they bumped the plan by $1/month and offered a 'streaming only' plan at the old price | 20:10 |
| RST38h | GAN: You mean, nobody has figured they can wire a neighborhood with CAT5 and share the same account with an ISP? | 20:11 |
| RST38h | GAN: Or place a few WiFi access points, with the same effect? | 20:11 |
| chx | AHEM | 20:11 |
| GAN900 | chx, out of interest. Do you see the flaws with an emotion-based argument like that? | 20:11 |
| chx | and then the ISP disables you because sharing is not allowed. | 20:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: Hmm, so basically it is unlimited movies for a flat monthly fee? | 20:12 |
| chx | you need a "leased line" for that which, of course, is hideously expensive. | 20:12 |
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| RST38h | chx: Howdo they know? | 20:12 |
| chx | RST38h: this has been so since forever? | 20:12 |
| chx | RST38h: unlimited movies for a flat fee, yes, but you cna't watch on Linux | 20:13 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, but they don't put the newest stuff online, and sometimes they don't get streaming deals with studios | 20:13 |
| RST38h | chx:So, how do they know, since forever? =) | 20:13 |
| chx | RST38h: what, read any ISP ToS | 20:13 |
| RST38h | (btw, leased lines were something like $700/mo and that was 13years ago) | 20:13 |
| RST38h | chx: You are not answering the question | 20:13 |
| chx | RST38h: oh, how woudl the ISP know it? | 20:14 |
| RST38h | johnx: Torrent then. | 20:14 |
| johnx | but really, it's a pretty great deal and the reason that I get away without having cable TV or even an antenna to receive OTA broadcasts :) | 20:14 |
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| chx | RST38h: that's a good question... deep packet investigation? i dunno, it could be your home NAT, right? | 20:14 |
| RST38h | johnx: On the other hand, I have to admit I haven't used Torrent for anything more than downloading a season of Dr Who | 20:14 |
| johnx | RST38h, exactly. Netflix lets me cut down on my torrents ;) It's great for the "I want to watch something right now" mindset | 20:14 |
| RST38h | chx: So, there is no answer. | 20:14 |
| RST38h | johnx: Still takes time to start streaming I guess | 20:15 |
| chx | RST38h: so let's put this way -- putting down CAT5 is expensive ('cos digging the street is epxneisve) and investing money on the hope the ISP won't catch is not the best business plan. | 20:15 |
| RST38h | chx:No, wrong answer. | 20:15 |
| johnx | RST38h, 30s? Probably longer to get a DVD off the shelf | 20:15 |
| compengi | hello all, how do i check the currect firmware and maemo version? and does the software updater upgrades to the newest version and firmware or i should manually flash it? | 20:15 |
| compengi | current* | 20:15 |
| RST38h | johnx: Can'ttake 30s | 20:16 |
| johnx | compengi, Settings -> About product | 20:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: Probably takes a couple of minutes at least, to fill up the buffer | 20:16 |
| johnx | compengi, Current is: 20.2010.36-2 | 20:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, want me to test it? | 20:16 |
| RST38h | chx: Don't need to dig it in, really | 20:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: If you have the service, yes | 20:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: Also, does it have hiccups? | 20:17 |
| johnx | rarely | 20:17 |
| compengi | johnx, aha, so i have the latest, and what about the firmware? | 20:17 |
| RST38h | 'cause it is either fast startup or possibility of hiccups | 20:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, I think it's "more possibility of hiccups early" and then it keeps building a buffer | 20:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: Depends on your connection I guess | 20:18 |
| johnx | I have a good connection ;) | 20:18 |
| johnx | and netflix has good connectivity | 20:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: All attempts at streaming I have seen in the States (mostly Comcast) were PAIN | 20:18 |
| johnx | Netflix has some serious geopgraphic diversity, deals with multiple backbone providers | 20:19 |
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| johnx | compengi, what about it? It's the latest. Did you want to reflash? | 20:20 |
| johnx | RST38h, IIRC, their plan from the beginning was the streaming stuff, even when they were getting it jump started with the mailing DVDs thing. | 20:20 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Doubt it: when they came up to be, video streaming was a pie in the sky | 20:22 |
| RST38h | Unobtainable | 20:22 |
| johnx | about 13s to moving video | 20:22 |
| RST38h | Pretty good | 20:22 |
| johnx | maybe it buffers in the background as soon as I pick a video? | 20:22 |
| compengi | johnx, i see, so the maemo software is the firmware | 20:22 |
| johnx | compengi, yeah. people sometimes use both words interchangeably | 20:23 |
| GAN900 | Netflix is great when it works | 20:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: As longas your download speed is faster than play back, why not | 20:23 |
| johnx | RST38h, they might be doing some terribly 'clever' stuff for all I know, but the effect is that it works well from a user point of view | 20:23 |
| compengi | johnx, good to know :) | 20:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: Nah, cannot cheat the information theory | 20:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: It either looks like shit (see Youtube) or requires long startup, or hiccups, or (most often) all the above | 20:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, err, I mean there's a screen when you select a movie, before you hit 'play' for that movie. The might already be streaming it before I even confirm my choice | 20:24 |
| compengi | btw how much time does it usually take to fully charge the phone when it's turned off? i left the phone on till it went off and now charging it for ~2.5h, is it usual? | 20:25 |
| RST38h | prebuffering? should be easy to detect by watching network activity =) | 20:25 |
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| johnx | compengi, Are you charging from USB? or a wall charger? | 20:25 |
| compengi | from the wall charger | 20:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, or fast startup with higher probability of hiccups early on, then fill the buffer aggressively. They also do tricks with different quality levels to suit different bandwidth | 20:26 |
| johnx | compengi, it's probably almost charged | 20:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: again that requires the bandwidth | 20:27 |
| compengi | johnx, btw it's charging while it's on, i misinterpret myself | 20:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: on the other hand, you may have the bandwidth given good connectivity in the US | 20:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: As there is just a handful of pipes between here and the US, I do not have the same here :) | 20:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, but "see also: adaptive bitrate" :) | 20:27 |
| johnx | and they only offer it in the US and Canada anyways | 20:28 |
| johnx | you'd need to do some clever proxying | 20:28 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Torrent. | 20:29 |
| johnx | RST38h, whatever floats your boat :) | 20:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: [un]funny thing is, I haven't downloaded a single US blockbuster movie, ever | 20:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: It is always some weird, old, usually european stuff | 20:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: and it is quite possible that I am not alone in this | 20:31 |
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| johnx | :) | 20:31 |
| derf | The internet is a great repository of things you cannot buy in any store. | 20:31 |
| derf | I was sad to find the link to Borland Turbo C 2.0 is dead. | 20:32 |
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| RST38h | derf:YOu can still get WatcomC though, it is better! =) | 20:33 |
| RST38h | For those times when you absolutely need to write a Novell driver or an OS/2app | 20:34 |
| derf | RST38h: That is actually what I did. | 20:34 |
| johnx | grrrr, is there anything I can do to make "make modules_install" install to a $PREFIX? | 20:34 |
| johnx | (linux kernel) | 20:34 |
| derf | They even have a Linux version, but it won't build for x86-64. | 20:34 |
| derf | "Unknown architecture" | 20:34 |
| johnx | nevermind. $INSTALL_MOD_PATH | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | compengi: iirc the specs say it needs 3.5h | 20:35 |
| lindi- | johnx: O=$PREFIX? | 20:35 |
| * johnx needed to RTFMakefile | 20:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer | though it is reaching some 90% after 90min | 20:35 |
| RST38h | derf: Hack it! | 20:36 |
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| derf | The goal of the exercise was to get something working fast. | 20:36 |
| pupnik_ | wow, n900 just sold with english kb for 190 euro on ebay.de | 20:36 |
| pupnik_ | and a few minutes before 290 euro | 20:36 |
| pupnik_ | crazy price range | 20:36 |
| derf | I just needed to be able to test that some code worked with a 16-bit int, and real-mode DOS was the easiest platform to do that in. | 20:36 |
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| compengi | DocScrutinizer, wow.. my n79 with 1200mAh used to charge in ~1.25h lol | 20:38 |
| compengi | DocScrutinizer, 3.5h while the phone is on or off? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | compengi: it's easy to make N900 tell you "charging finished" after 60min :-P | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | compengi: that's largely irrelevant | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's the pretty slow topping charge at end of charging that takes lots of time | 20:40 |
| compengi | DocScrutinizer, well.. i hope n79 didn't fool me | 20:40 |
| compengi | :P | 20:40 |
| compengi | i know | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | it'S a question how you define "charging finished" - nothing to do with fooling | 20:40 |
| johnx | DocScrutinizer, except for emergency charge, is it ever really charging while off? | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 20:41 |
| johnx | I mean, don't they use X11 to display the charging screen? | 20:41 |
| jacekowski | johnx: no | 20:41 |
| jacekowski | johnx: phone is running when charging | 20:41 |
| jacekowski | just with minimal os | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's entering a different init-state, like init 1 maybe | 20:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | called ACT_DEAD | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | it can even run sw-updates OTA during that :-D | 20:42 |
| johnx | ah, on the N800 it booted all the way into X to display the charging icon | 20:42 |
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| compengi | i wonder why nokia decided to use a 1320mAh battery on such a power consuming phone :/ | 20:42 |
| johnx | it's already brick-sized :) | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably it was the best fit | 20:43 |
| compengi | i've seen phones with 1800mAh | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | form factor wise | 20:43 |
| compengi | well.. n900 is already huge :P | 20:43 |
| Sicelo | DocScrutinizer: sw-updates while charging in off state? :-O | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw N900 by no means is power hungry | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | poorly written apps are, though | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: yep | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | well, they could have used bigger battery anyways | 20:44 |
| compengi | if they would have added +1x1x1 cm it wouldn't make much of a difference, would it? :D | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | do it like in nokia 5110 | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | that'd be much more of a brick than even N810 | 20:44 |
| jacekowski | where battery was a back cover at the same time | 20:44 |
| compengi | lol | 20:45 |
| jacekowski | so you have bit more space | 20:45 |
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| compengi | i've seen such phones | 20:45 |
| compengi | 6310i or so | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 20:45 |
| compengi | my dad uses it till now | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | my 6210 is pretty lean, compared to even the N900 | 20:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, dinnertime | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | cya o/ | 20:46 |
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| compengi | see ya | 20:46 |
| Sicelo | Enjoy it DocScrutinizer :) | 20:47 |
| Sicelo | thanks for the info | 20:47 |
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| compengi | can i switch off the sound while tapping on the touch screen? | 21:15 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Hackers Penetrate Nasdaq Computer Networks | 21:15 |
| sleepee | hello everybody. i have a quick question about the n900 and was wondering if somebody could help me. | 21:16 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: maybe. | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: What is your problem? | 21:17 |
| fellu | yea | 21:17 |
| sleepee | well, i got my n900 a while ago and am planning to use it with t-mobile, but they need to know where to put the APN.\ | 21:17 |
| compengi | wow, that's nasty | 21:17 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: Are you in the US? | 21:18 |
| sleepee | they don't know where to put this nuber | 21:18 |
| sleepee | in puerto rico, but i think it's the same t-mobile | 21:18 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: It is - but implementation details differ | 21:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/fapn/ for example | 21:19 |
| sleepee | hmm.. well, i've been playing with the phone trying to figure out where to put this number but i can't find it | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not a number usually | 21:19 |
| SpeedEvil | It's an address, like an interenet address, but not really | 21:19 |
| sleepee | ahhh i see.. so i have to download this app and use that? | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | APN for internet/data? | 21:20 |
| sleepee | yes @ DocScrutinizer51 if i'm not mistaken | 21:20 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: that's one way to do it - usually your service provider will send you a special SMS, and it just works. | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you put that yourself into settings - internet - new_connection | 21:21 |
| sleepee | i can put the apn into the internet connections settings? | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or you get that SMS | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes | 21:22 |
| sleepee | oh, i see... well, i'll download that fapn app just in case as well.. the t-mobile people had never seen the n900 and it didn't look like they knew what they were doing with that phone | 21:22 |
| sleepee | lol | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | compengi: check touchscreen click volume, in settings input (iirc, or screen) | 21:23 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally, if you can get them to send a SMS with settings to the phone, it 'just works'. | 21:23 |
| sleepee | btw, i don't need anything else to actually use the n900 on the tmobile network as a phone do i? | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | generally your provider doesn't ask you where to put that | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: Shouldn't. Though I don't know if it works at all in brazil. | 21:24 |
| SpeedEvil | sleepee: generally, if it can work, it will work. | 21:24 |
| compengi | DocScrutinizer51, i don't have a volume option in the screen settings | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mompls | 21:25 |
| sleepee | the way they explained the apn to me, it seemed like just a type of access point or a router.. | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | settings - profile, last setting there | 21:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | sleepee: that's correct | 21:26 |
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| sleepee | ok.. well, i just downloaded the fapn app... it seems easy enough for the tmobile people to work with. thanks for the help guys! | 21:28 |
| sleepee | oh wait!! i have another question... not related to apn though. lol | 21:30 |
| compengi | DocScrutinizer51, thanks, found it | 21:30 |
| sleepee | to update the phone to pr 1.3 it seems like i need ovi suite or something installed on my computer. | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sleepee: fapn is for mms | 21:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | not needed for normal data access | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN | 21:31 |
| sleepee | @ DocScrutinizer51 idk, that's what the tmobile people told me i needed for internet access | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops - I thought it was for APN | 21:32 |
| sleepee | it seems they have different internet apn's for different phones | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | They can't just tell you teh APN? Or you look it up? | 21:32 |
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| sleepee | hmm... i didn't ask. | 21:33 |
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| sleepee | i'll google it though | 21:33 |
| sleepee | i think i mightve found it.. epc.tmobile.com i'll give it a try.. | 21:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 21:36 |
| sleepee | hmm.. i added with the fapn app and it tells me to edit the control panel. | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint" | 21:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | DO NOT USE FAPN! | 21:38 |
| sleepee | lol.. ok.. no more fapn | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | fapn is for MMS! | 21:38 |
| lcukn900 | lolololol | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-02-05 20:31:58] <DocScrutinizer51> you first should get normal data working, then see about MMS, they usually have a different APN | 21:40 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops - sorry, I misundertood what it was for. I've never seen the normal set AP?N thingy | 21:40 |
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| sleepee | ok... i added epc.tmobile.com to the ssid. | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | to WHAT? | 21:41 |
| SpeedEvil | ssid is the wrong place | 21:41 |
| sleepee | lol!!! im confused.. | 21:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | settings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint" | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint" | 21:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | settings - internet_connections - connections - new - next "name of accesspoint" | 21:41 |
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| sleepee | when i tap on new it asks me for the name of the connection.. i just put tmobile. | 21:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there an existing cellphone internet connection? | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | If there is, it will do that | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | The icon for an existing cellphone internet connection is like two arrows | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | -> | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | <- | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | In a circle | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | If there is one, you need to edit it | 21:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, sorry | 21:43 |
| sleepee | lol!!! i think i forgot to tell youguys i don't actually have service with tmobile yet | 21:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | prolly you already have a connection of whatver name that's a GPRS connection, selct that one and 'edit' | 21:44 |
| sleepee | ok.. so when i actually get my cell phone activated with tmobile, i can edit the cell phone internet connection and from there add the apn? | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can only config one GPRS connection for data(internet) - a flaw of the settings and connectivity manager | 21:45 |
| sleepee | gprs? | 21:46 |
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| sleepee | oh.. that's the cellular connection... | 21:48 |
| sleepee | hmm... i see.. well i was just askin for info for when i actually get my cell activated... thanks for the help guys! | 21:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Good luck. | 21:53 |
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| Ken-Young | Can I talk some kind soul into testing my app (orrery) in the Extras Testing repository? It's been in QA purgatory for a couple of weeks, and needs one more positive vote to graduate. | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you bet I'll do :-) | 22:02 |
| Ken-Young | Thanks! | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | orrery is GREAT | 22:03 |
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| Ken-Young | I didn't know you ever ran it. | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I love it since _es | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ages* | 22:03 |
| Ken-Young | That's great to hear. Please, please let me know of any features you'd like to have added. I'm afraid I'm adding stuff that nobody but me cares about. | 22:04 |
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| Ken-Young | Like the new analemma. | 22:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | damn, I never before heard of analemma, and it's nice to learn about the data in it | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I always wonder when the sat dishes will incinerate the LNBs, with this data I probably could figure | 22:19 |
| Ken-Young | I think the analemma may be the science figure that more people have seen and puzzled over, than any other. Most globes used to print the analemma in the Pacific Ocean for some reason. | 22:19 |
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| Ken-Young | The analemma very slowly changes over time, as the earth's orbit changes, and the pole precesses. orrery properly calculates it for the year you select - that's why it's rather slow, it's doing a very careful calculation that retures nearly 3/4 of a million trig function calls. | 22:21 |
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| Ken-Young | s/retures/requires/ | 22:21 |
| infobot | Ken-Young meant: The analemma very slowly changes over time, as the earth's orbit changes, and the pole precesses. orrery properly calculates it for the year you select - that's why it's rather slow, it's doing a very careful calculation that requires nearly 3/4 of a mi... | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | heh, now I see why it took 2s to open :-D | 22:22 |
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| Ken-Young | I'm slowly converting the solar system calculations to the VSOP87 package, with is far more accurate than the eorbital elements (and derivitives of orbital elements) that I'm currently using to plot planets. VSOP87 gives sub-arcsecond accuracy. | 22:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer51 still tries to wrap his head around the analemma +/-afew minutes | 22:25 | |
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| Ken-Young | With VSOP87, I can now do things like calculate the moment when a season starts with high accuracy. | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, if it's optified then I doubt there could be anything fishy in such a professionally done app | 22:26 |
| Ken-Young | It's optified. | 22:26 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you should post the link to vote ;-) | 22:27 |
| Ken-Young | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/orrery/3.2.3-1/ | 22:28 |
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| ieatlint | i suspect if women had pants with pockets, their key chains wouldn't be so damned huge | 22:28 |
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| Ken-Young | Thanks, Doc! | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ken-Young: go ahead :-D | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks for the nice app :-) | 22:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | voting for it is the least I can do | 22:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cheers and hooray for another killer app in extras :-D | 22:42 |
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| GAN900 | Flickr stats information is bad for my health. | 22:44 |
| Ken-Young | Now I have to update the wiki... | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | Someone is searching for pictures of wazd on Google and ending up on my photostream. | 22:45 |
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| Ken-Young | I can no longer take screenshots on my N900 by pressing CNTRL+SHIFT+P this may have started when I downloaded the Community OS Update. Has anyone else seen this problem? Could someone else running the Community OS mods try to take a screenshot that way, to see if it still works for you? | 23:10 |
| Venemo | Ken-Young: worked for me last time I checked | 23:11 |
| Ken-Young | Venemo, After enabling Community OS? | 23:11 |
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| Venemo | Ken-Young: if you are refferring to the community SSU, then yes | 23:13 |
| GAN900 | Somebody needs to code up a rimshot applet. | 23:13 |
| Venemo | GAN900: what's rimshot? | 23:13 |
| Ken-Young | Venemo, Yes, that's what I meant. THanks for the info - I've probably messed up my box in some other way, then. | 23:14 |
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| GAN900 | Venemo, the drum sequence that plays when somebody makes a stupid pun. | 23:14 |
| GAN900 | bad duh-dump tssshh | 23:15 |
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| Venemo | GAN900: :D | 23:15 |
| Venemo | GAN900: get me the sound effect and I may make you such a widget :P | 23:15 |
| GAN900 | freesound.org must have something. | 23:16 |
| Loveable_rouge | any body help with queenbeecon command problem | 23:17 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: wanna test the new version of puzzle-master? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sure | 23:22 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7? | 23:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | let's assume I have | 23:26 |
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| Venemo | sorry, this crap connection disconnected me | 23:29 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: do you have libqtm-sensors and qt 4.7? | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | let's assume I have | 23:30 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: well then you should wait 5 minutes until I commit to git and upload a deb somewhere | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, what if I don't wait ? :-P | 23:32 |
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| GAN900 | I thought gerbick quit. | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | GAN900: eh? | 23:35 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer51, he posted an "I'm leaving thread", yet he's still out typing up silliness. | 23:40 |
| GAN900 | (Talk) | 23:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 23:41 |
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| GAN900 | "I quit" threads never made much sense to me. | 23:44 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer51: "well, what if I don't wait ? :-P" -> you can teleport here and try on my N900 | 23:46 |
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