IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-02-06

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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: okay, I finished the code cleanup and also pushed to Gitorious.00:11
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: now building the package00:11
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: this is a fresh scratchbox installation so it could take a while to install the dependencies :(00:13
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: see
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: most notable changes are perf improvements and some bux fixes, plus it now remembers the images you select00:34
vi_did anyone see that dickbag trying to sell his 'optomise n900 script'?00:35
Venemovi_: no, why?00:36
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vi_made me rofl all over my corn flakes00:36
Venemolol vi_00:37
Venemovi_: yeah, some guys are thinking they can sell crap :D00:37
DocScrutinizer51Venemo: to keep up the myth I never go sleep, I just answer 'I'll check it later'00:38
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: what? you never go to sleep! :P00:38
vi_doc doesnt sleep...he bides his time.00:38
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SpeedEvilFun - - how to snoop on your citezens!00:48
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MrBawbKen-Young: - check /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/key-actions/preset_shift_ctrl01:01
Ken-YoungMrBawb, Yes, thanks.   Someone pointed me to the solution on T.M.O.01:02
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MrBawbthe schema file is /usr/share/gconf/schemas/hildon-desktop-keys.schemas01:03
Ken-YoungDocScrutinizer, It was a Community SSU issue:
povbotBug 11813: All shortcut keys, for example screenshot with Ctrl + Shift + P broken01:05
DocScrutinizer51meh, really scary01:06
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DocScrutinizeractually I'd hate to see this nice feature break:
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MrBawbyeah, that was broken for me till I registered the schema01:15
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Sc0rpiusthat was already fixed01:21
Sc0rpiusthe keys problem01:21
Sc0rpiusand Ctrl-Backspace works as well01:21
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Sc0rpiusas Alt-Tab simulation (though I don't really like that)01:21
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DocScrutinizer51btw there are some 'hidden features' with that one: keeping bs pressed and clicking ctrl rotates backwards. releasing bs last doesn't select the window so the taskswitcher view keeps open. with tasksw open, you can select which task goes foreground wit qweasd and even *close* with shift-qweasd01:22
Sc0rpiusthat's right01:22
Sc0rpiusand if a notification is open, hildon-desktop crashes01:22
Sc0rpiusbut we'll fix that eventually01:22
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DocScrutinizeronly thing painfully missing is a way to escape to appstarter menu01:30
DocScrutinizervia kbd01:30
DocScrutinizerand then select apps to start there01:30
DocScrutinizerbut - as much as I like the qwerasdf positional shortcuts - this will prolly fail for appstarter, and also it's quite err, special. A highlighting frame moving around with up/down/left/right to select the item to activate with e.g ENTER, would be more mainstream, GUI concept wise01:33
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DocScrutinizeralso extremely missing: global shortcut for opening menu in an app01:35
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DocScrutinizerN810 had a dedicated hw-button for this. N900 / fremantle doesn't even support a keyborad shortcut :-((01:35
DocScrutinizera triple cheers on the usability&GUI-design tram @ Nokia :-S01:36
DocScrutinizererr, ¡¡¡01:37
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DocScrutinizermy emoticon parser segfaulted on ;o01:40
DocScrutinizerNFC what it might mean01:41
VenemoDocScrutinizer: so, could you test the app for me?01:41
DocScrutinizerVenemo: sorry, not the right mood right now01:41
DocScrutinizerI'll do it tomorrow, I promise01:42
Venemookay DocScrutinizer :)01:43
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* DocScrutinizer starts to understand why M. Jackson used propofol01:43
GAN900DocScrutinizer, 'cause he was killed by the mob?01:43
DocScrutinizerthat's not exactly what I thought01:44
MohammadAG<DocScrutinizer> a triple cheers on the usability&GUI-design tram @ Nokia :-S01:45
MohammadAGplease, thank the iPhone first01:45
VenemoMohammadAG: elaborate please01:46
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MohammadAGthe iTeam made one button for the iPhone to make it easy to use01:47
DocScrutinizeryou forgot the "" tags01:47
MohammadAGNokia used the idea and backfired = no buttons01:48
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DocScrutinizeryeah, prolly01:48
DocScrutinizergashead move01:48
MohammadAGthough really, the N900 isn't simple to use for the average iJoe01:49
DocScrutinizerthey simply forgot the N900 has a full hw kbd01:49
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MohammadAGeven if they added a button01:50
MohammadAGthough i have to credit apple01:50
MohammadAGthe one button can have three functions01:50
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MohammadAGhome / double c: multitasking BS / triple: accessibility01:51
DocScrutinizerthis is a much worse and fundamental crime: they forgot to implement full support for hw kbd. it's starting with ctrl-fn special char vkbd, and doesn't stop at things like missing menu-key-shortcut01:52
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DocScrutinizereven redond understood they need key shortcuts for *everything*, or more precisely: mouse is an alternative IM, and you should be able to completely operate the device without mouse and only using kbd, as you should even have a full vkbd to operate device with mouse only and no hw kbd attached01:54
DocScrutinizerthey even have two complementary key-shortcut schemes, the alt and the ctrl level01:56
DocScrutinizermaemo otoh has *none*01:56
javispedronot to worry, apple plans to remove its button too01:56
javispedrothey want to replace it with a seven-finger-required gesture01:56
javispedrounfortunately, us humans are not born with seven fingers per hand. steve jobs answer's "your parents shouldn't have you raised you that way".01:57
Venemolol javispedro01:57
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MohammadAGjavispedro, so we're all retarded in steve's eyes?02:00
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* javispedro tries the android sdk. the first thing I write "whoami", returns: "whoami: permission denied". And they say Android is open...02:01
DocScrutinizer51meh, I'm not argueing about iPhone's single button concept here. N900 and maemo have/are supposed to work with a full qwerty kbd02:02
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DocScrutinizer51and it's not acceptble there are no kbd shortcuts for virtually anything02:02
DocScrutinizer51esp since this is a massive regression from diablo to fremantle02:03
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stevomanuany 1 help im trying to mount m900 on ubuntu10.10 but it aint happening an im lost02:10
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BCMMstevomanu: is it in mass storage mode?02:11
stevomanuyes , but i need the whole system to mount as im trying to create flashable image02:12
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BCMMstevomanu: you can't mount the whole system as USB mass storage. what are you trying to do exactly?02:12
stevomanucreate an image of my rootfs so i can create a flashable image for maemo flasher02:13
BCMMstevomanu: i have no idea whether that's possible or a good idea, but if it is, you need SSH.02:13
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stevomanuits based on this
stevomanubut robinthe1st from maemo changed code a little here
stevomanubut none work02:15
BCMMstevomanu: yeah, you can use SSH to get at the full filesystem02:16
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stevomanuwell got that installed so will set it up see if it helps02:16
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stevomanublagged now thou lol02:16
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BCMMstevomanu: i have no idea what you just said.02:17
stevomanunever mind02:17
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stevomanumy mind is lost in all this code !!!02:18
BCMMstevomanu: if you aren't quite sure what's going on, i suggest not blowing stuff up.02:19
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stevomanuwell i need to learn thou as it would be so usefull to master02:19
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VenemoMohammadAG: can I ask you to test a new version of puzzle-master?02:23
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MohammadAGVenemo, no, you know why?02:24
MohammadAGcause you already did :P02:24
VenemoMohammadAG: what are your findings, if any? :)02:25
sleepeequestion to anybody that can help, if i may:  why isn't it possible to do an over-the-air update of maemo on nokia n900?  is there any other alternative other than using nokia pc suite?02:26
felluo.o i never use pc suite to update my n90002:27
Venemosleepee: there is over-the-air, it's callied SSU (seamless software update)02:27
BCMMsleepee: maybe you don't have enough free disk space?02:27
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sleepeei should have enough free space.. my hard drive isn't even half full.  i can update apps, but i can't upgrade to pr 1.302:28
Venemosleepee: see
BCMMis nokia pc suite the same thing as Maemo Flasher, or is it like the windows equivalent or something?02:28
BCMMsleepee: you have a hard drive?02:28
MohammadAGhardcoded GUI02:28
sleepeei'm sorry, i meant memory on my n900 isn't full02:28
MohammadAGit's for symbian devices, I'm not sure how they glued in maemo support02:29
sleepeeeverytime i try to upgrade maemo 5, it tells me i must use nokia pc suite and i can't move forward fro there..02:29
VenemoMohammadAG: ?02:29
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sleepeei'm going to try to do a video capture of what i mean and upload it to youtube or something...02:30
villagersleepee: quite common problem... a maemo update requires a whole lot more space than updating apps... try some of the stuff on
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stevomanusleepee how much rootfs do you have free ?02:32
stevomanufree rootfs soz02:32
sleepeehmm.. i'm going to check and see how much rootfs space i have02:32
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sleepeelol!!!  wow.. i only have 28.8 mb free..02:33
sleepeei guess that's why i can't update02:33
sleepeemaemo 5 update is 80 something mb02:33
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stevomanugutted , looks like its a reflash then02:34
sleepeeso if i free up at least 90 mb or so i should be able to do an ota update?02:34
Venemosleepee: correct02:35
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sleepeeok... i'll try to clear up some memory and i'll come back and let you know what happens...  it would've been nice if the maemo updater mentioned this though..02:36
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sleepeethanks... i hope i don't delete too much stuff  lol02:38
stevomanunext time flash a bigger rootfs image give you more space for installing apps02:40
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sleepeei'd love to do that, but i'm a novice at this and i can't risk to mess up my phone :(02:41
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sleepeei don't trust myself to partition up my phone like that just yet02:42
stevomanuits just a case of changing code when you reflash , but if you aint sure leave it02:42
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DocScrutinizersorry, nonsense02:55
stevomanuim runnging this command tar xf 20110201-0838-rootfs.tar -C ./rootfs/    an result is tar: rootfs: Cannot chdir: No such file or directory02:55
stevomanuits defo in right place02:55
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villagersleepee: sometimes rebooting also helps... oh, and according to this page you may need 42MB or so of free rootfs space:
sleepeei think i also have some apps i installed from extras-devel so i may have to uninstall those too..03:02
sleepeethis might take a while...03:02
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sleepeedoes debian chroot take up a lot of space on rootfs?03:13
villagerthat is placed on the emmc, not on rootfs03:13
sleepeehmmm.. i thought so.  i'm just uninstalling random apps hoping to free some space.  especially the ones from extras-devel03:14
villagermost apps are optified, which means designed to not use rootfs space, so unless you've installed something that isn't optified, that won't help much03:15
sleepeeoh...  guess i was wasting my time  lol03:16
villagerdisabling extras-devel in the application manager, though, may help because the app catalog itself is stored on the rootfs03:16
villagerand that can be done without uninstalling anything03:17
sleepeei disabled a few repos and it didn't seem to free up any space...  i think i'll restart and see if that makes a difference03:17
stevomanuhave you not created a backup using backupmenu ??03:19
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sleepeeyea, i think i created a backup on my computer using nokia pc suite.03:20
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sleepeei was hoping i wouldn't need to use it though..03:20
stevomanucheck out this post app is called backupmenu v2 an it creates a backup of every thing no need to download apps again03:21
stevomanuwhen you have a working system you like back it up then if any thing goes wrong just use app to restore it all /. , saves so much time03:22
sleepeeso the only thing it doesnt back up is the MyDocs data?   it saves everything else?03:24
stevomanuyep thats correct03:24
sleepeehmmm... good call.  i think i better do that now before i do something stupid.  lol03:25
stevomanujust as you left it , its probly my best app for n90003:25
sleepeeyou made it?03:25
stevomanuwell no point now if your system is flawed as you will just have same problems after restore my advice is flash it fresh then get you device as you want an backup03:26
sleepeewell.. my phone's not really messed up.  i just have to free up some space on rootfs so i can update maemo.03:27
stevomanuye but a reflash gets rid of the junk you no longer need , but its up to you of course03:27
sleepeebut it would probably be a good idea to backup before i keep messing around in root...03:28
stevomanudoesnt matter cause its dead easy to reflash if you do kill it !!03:28
sleepeelol!  i feel really stupid because i barely know what flashing means.. more reason to backup.  lol03:29
stevomanujust have a read here all the info you need
sleepeeseems i was right...  rebooting after uninstalling some apps freed up some space..03:29
sleepeeyea, i have a fair bit of reading to do tonight  lol03:30
stevomanuonce you have done it , nothing to it03:30
stevomanumy irc says i have missed 44 unread messages why i cant see then03:31
nox-i think you can /msg memoserv help03:31
stevomanunew to irc i am its all a bit strange03:32
nox-im not sure maybe its also more a freenode thing than an irc one03:32
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VenemoMohammadAG: pingping03:33
sleepeei'm new too as you can probably guess..03:33
villageryeah, freenode is doing all sorts of crap that's not standard irc03:33
stevomanuok cool03:33
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BCMMvillager: it's not exactly violation of standards, just implementation of extra stuff that isn't standard03:34
BCMManyway, aren't all services non-standard extensions?03:35
villagerBCMM: I know, I didn't say it was a violation03:35
doc|homehe didn't say you said it was a ... etc etc03:35
BCMMthis is why there isn't a reliable way to automate nickserv identification that works with all networks03:35
BCMMif nickservs where standardised, an IRC client could wait for nickserv to confirm login before /joining03:36
BCMMas it is, they don't know how nickserv will do that03:36
villager(but I did say it was crap... and I'll stick to that...)03:36
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BCMMvillager: having a nickserv is crap?03:37
BCMMoh wow, you aren't identified...03:38
villagerprobably... but having a memoserv is worse03:38
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* Dhraakellian enables -devel ever so briefly to install aptitude04:59
* Dhraakellian would, of course, prefer zypper, but that's probably in a large part because he's an openSUSE user and is used to it04:59
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daxtHow many of you have accidently put your N900 into a bucket of water ?05:30
daxtmine felled last night05:32
daxtand now its struggling to boot up :(05:32
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Dhraakelliandaxt: remove battery immediately, let sit for a couple days?05:33
sleepeethat sux..  i've gotten mine wet, but not completely wet like that05:33
sleepeei saw a youtube vid of some guy that stuck his n900 in a bucket of rice for a few hours.  the phone worked after that05:33
daxtits already removed , camera lense has some moisture inside05:33
daxti am sure that PCB in the phone is intact05:34
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sleepeerice soaks up moisture05:34
sleepeeraw rice, of course.  not cooked  lol05:34
* Dhraakellian does not like HAM05:35
GeneralAntillesdaxt: stick it in a bag of desiccant or if you don't have any on hand, rice.05:39
GeneralAntillesdaxt: trying to power it on while it's wet will mess stuff up.05:40
daxtit tries to boot up05:40
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daxti see the 4 white dots05:40
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daxtand suddenly fone turns off05:41
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sleepeea few years ago i jumped into a pool with my phone in my pocket. lol!  but what i did was wrap up the phone with some clothes and stuck in the dryer for an hour or so..05:49
sleepeeafter that it worked fine...  of course, it was a simple flip phone.. i don't know if that's a good idea with the n90005:50
daxtwithout Electricity in it , N900 shud be water proof05:51
daxtas long as there is no current in it , metals are water proof for short period of time :D05:54
sleepeei don't know what it's called, but sometimes some products are shipped with little balls that look like they're made of gel or silicone...  i think those are for moisture.05:54
sleepeeif you happen to have a lot of those lying around maybe you could stick your phone in some of that05:55
sleepeewhy can i not update maemo ota?  i keep getting this message:  "To update your device to this version of the operating system you must use Nokia PC Suite on your PC.  Connect the device to your PC via a USB cable and launch the application."05:57
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sleepeethis sucks.  i deleted a whole bunch of stuff from the rootfs thinking it was because there wasn't enough space to do the update. apparently it's not because of that. :(05:59
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Xithulusanybody else having repository issues with
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ShapeshifterHey, haven't been around for a while. Does anyone know if tweakr is pretty much obsolete and replaced by ProfileX?10:37
Shapeshifterjust because it's relevant to one of my packages10:37
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johnxShapeshifter, I googled a bit and got the same impression10:44
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johnxah, then I found this: and this
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noodles900my browser crashes often if there are more than 2 windows open - especially if it's showing scripty pages like gmail :(10:49
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johnxnoodles900, it might be worth trying the the 'smartphone' version:
johnx(this is for gmail at least)10:53
noodles900johnx: is that not just the "plain html" page?10:55
johnxnope. It's the "iphone and android" version10:55
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noodles900ok - let's see ;)10:55
johnxit has a bit of JS for things like collapsible conversations, but it doesn't have much10:56
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* noodles900 waits for gprs.....10:58
noodles900loaded in about 2 minutes :)10:59
johnxSeemed insanely fast on my desktop11:00
* johnx shrugs11:00
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noodles900johnx: thanks - I'll play with that for a while. Looks strange but we'll see11:00
johnxA lot of other sites have 'iphone' or 'android' versions that might be worth looking into11:01
johnxOn the N900 they usually detect the N900's browser as firefox (since it's based on firefox) and they feed it the heavy desktop site11:01
johnxAlso, it's worth seeing if turning off flash helps11:01
johnxFlash ads can be a killer on performance/battery life/responsiveness11:02
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noodles900where's the "off" switch for flash?11:04
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johnxuhm, disable the plugin11:06
johnxI don't have my phone in front of me11:06
johnxI think you can get flashblock as well.11:06
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RobbieThe1stThere;s a nice userscript in the repos that acts like Flashblock11:07
noodles900yea looking for flashblock ...11:07
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noodles900RobbieThe1st: what's it called?11:08
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noodles900RobbieThe1st: tks :)11:09
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RST38hwell. moo.11:16
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PhonicUKhey all, is there a good Neo Geo emu for the N900?11:56
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: meego talk on fosdem12:08
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: still nothing about maemo12:08
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alteregoWhy would there be anything about maemo?12:18
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Venemogood morning12:21
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lardmanis there any online stream of the talks?12:25
Venemolardman: if you mean the channel log, then yes12:26
Venemomorning DocScrutinizer12:26
lardmanno I meant the Fosdem talks12:26
lardmanunless there's someone furiously typing away transcribing the proceedings :)12:27
Venemooh, I dunno12:27
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lardmanhmm I really could do with a double height task bar12:31
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MohammadAGDebian Squeeze is out12:34
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Venemomorning MohammadAG :)12:35
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MohammadAGmorning Venemo12:36
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VenemoMohammadAG: I'm now adding portrait support to puzzle-master :)12:38
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer51: stskeeps is doing that talk about meego12:59
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: well, that's not any surprise, no?13:00
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jacktheripperif I touch the screen, lift my finger and quickly touch the screen somewhere else, the touch is still registered at the old position. Is this tweakable ?13:16
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jacktheripperby quickly I mean really really quickly.13:24
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Venemojacktheripper: worksforme13:29
jacktheripperoh I think it's so fast it doesn't notice the lift. It averages, but on preenv games for example it uses only the first touch position. nevermind :)13:30
Venemoalterego: ping13:32
Venemojacktheripper: maybe you have a faulty n90013:32
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jacktheripperVenemo, no no, it's the application supporting capacitive touch only I think. as I said, only happens on preenv.13:33
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Venemojacktheripper: mhmm13:33
jacktheripperor the game just doesn't sense movement. (doesn't need to)13:33
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Smharis there a web page explaining how/what to free in rootfs?13:41
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VenemoSmhar: yes, in the wiki13:42
SmharI only have 37mb free and I want to upgrade to PR1.313:44
Smharbtw. is there a way to make N900 activate bluetooth when a call is made or answered and disconnect blue toth when a call is ended, thus saving battery life13:45
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Salmansorry, got disconnected13:48
Salmanbtw. is there a way to make N900 activate bluetooth when a call is made or answered and disconnect blue toth when a call is ended, thus saving battery life13:48
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VenemoSalman: if you want to save battery life, then don't enable bluetooth at all13:55
SpeedEvilAlso - most bluetooth devices will go to sleep once disconnected for a few mins13:56
SpeedEvilRequiring you to press a button to re-pair13:56
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alteregoVenemo: pong14:07
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Venemoalterego: I'm making progress14:12
Venemoalterego: all thanks to your help yesterday :)14:13
alteregoIn regards to your performance issues, it's more about spreading the load across gpu/cpu14:13
alteregoAlso, are you running fullscreen?14:13
Venemoalterego: not yet, but I will be soon14:14
alteregoWell, gl works like crap when not fullscreen14:14
alterego(on the N900)14:14
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Venemoalterego: it works very well now that I eliminated the overhead14:16
alteregocool, bbiab14:16
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Venemoalterego: I would need some help with something though14:26
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JaffaMohammadAG: Didn't you do something like which rotated any app?14:29
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VenemoJaffa: are you referring to 'rotatedaemon' in -devel?14:30
trxthats not a problem, setting a rotation flag14:30
trxproblem is the app layout14:30
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Venemotrx: yeah.14:31
MohammadAGJaffa, nope14:32
JaffaVenemo: Yeah, guess so14:32
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alteregoVenemo: what's that then?14:39
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Venemoalterego: I'd like to find an algorythm to place the pieces to a reasonable place when the app is resized [eg. via autorotation]14:41
MohammadAGVenemo, rotatedaemon works with xrandr directly I think14:41
MohammadAGcc Jaffa ^14:41
VenemoMohammadAG: correct14:41
MohammadAGw00t_ daemonized it iirc14:41
alteregoVenemo: well, you want them in random positions and not overlapping too much right?14:42
MohammadAGI need some help with a shell script14:42
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alteregoAlso, when rotating you probably want to sub divide them again to make the rows shorter for portrait14:42
alteregoLike 6x4 for landscape and 4x6 for portrait, or something.14:43
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alteregoVenemo: get my last two messages?14:47
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MohammadAG[: 17: =: unexpected operator <-- what does this mean?14:50
alteregoMohammadAG: $answer = "y"14:52
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MohammadAGalterego, already fixed that, sec14:52
alteregoYou should probably quote $answer too14:52
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MohammadAG alterego14:53
MohammadAGY/y/N/n work fine14:53
MohammadAGbut I expect it to default to Y if the user presses enter14:54
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MohammadAG(similar to apt-get)14:54
MohammadAGand it does that, but shows 4 errors14:54
MohammadAG[: 17: =: unexpected operator *414:54
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Venemohey again14:59
Venemoit disconnected again... :(14:59
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Venemoalterego: actually I scale the graphics view very well when rotated15:00
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Venemoalterego: the 'only glitch' is that I want the pieces to appear at better places15:00
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Venemoalterego: I'm also getting a resize event at the beginning of the app in which the size of the graphics view is 100×30...15:01
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alteregoVenemo: yeah, that happens. Part of Qt unfortunately. You should be able to setFixedSize maybe ..15:18
Venemoalterego: nah, I just don't do anything for the first resize event15:18
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Venemoalterego: I'm thinking of linking to your libRXsupport for the fullscreen button15:19
alteregoWell, you only really need the header file ..15:20
alteregoBut it's up to you15:20
Venemoalterego: is it transparent?15:20
Venemoalterego: I'm thinking about where should I put the button on my UI15:20
MohammadAGcan someone confirm that dsme-thermalobject-surface is installed by default?15:21
MohammadAGi.e just check if it's installed on your device15:21
VenemoMohammadAG: yes15:21
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alteregoVenemo: Well, top right is quite consistent I think15:22
Venemoalterego: top right? I haven't seen it there in any apps yet15:22
Venemoalterego: it's bottom right in the browser15:24
alteregoOh yeah15:24
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alteregoWell, it's bottom right in Columbus15:24
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Venemoalterego: problem with bottom right is that the user might click on it accidentally when he wants to grap a puzzle piece15:25
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Venemoalterego: is showFullscreen() enough or I should set something else too?15:34
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MohammadAGit's enough for FS15:41
Venemook, thanks15:41
Venemois this a bug?15:43
Venemoa Hildon banner rotates my app back to landscape15:43
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Venemothis is only true for banners that are system modal15:46
MohammadAGVenemo, if it's parented that shouldn't happen15:47
dan2003Hi, im making a qt based homescreen widget, I want to open a dialog if the widget is pressed, i assume the normal connect signal->slot mechanism should be used, but i dont know which to use, the qtcreator IDE sugests only a few of  which none seem relevant / or work. What should i use?15:47
Venemodan2003: if you want something when a button on the widget is pressed, the use clicked()15:48
Venemodan2003: if you want the entire widget to react to clicks, read up on mousePressEvent() and mouseReleaseEvent()15:48
dan2003Venemo: ah, ok, thanks :) the latter sounds like what i want15:50
VenemoMohammadAG: it doesn't happen when it's parented15:50
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dan2003Venemo: yaay! thx that works :)15:52
Venemodan2003: :)15:52
dan2003hmm.. but with an issue, (which i can work around) it present a dialog, but when i press a button in it it acts as if i have pressed the widget which is underneath (another home screen widget)15:53
dan2003ill move that dialog out of the way for now15:54
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Venemodan2003: well you have to take care of such cases for yourself15:54
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Venemodan2003: what widget will that be, btw?15:54
dan2003i just treid and this happens for both the contact widget, (present the call dialog) and the facebook widget (opens browser)15:55
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dan2003if either are under the area where my dialog comes up, they seem to have mouse focus instead.15:55
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Venemodan2003: interesting15:56
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javispedrooh god, Android does truly suck.16:16
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* javispedro 's downloaded the SDK ...16:16
Venemojavispedro: yeah... I agree16:17
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Venemojavispedro: we learned a bit about android dev (I had a course called mobile Linux applications), and it sucked.16:18
javispedroI couldn't believe a day would come where I would _crave_ for busybox.16:18
javispedroyes, the android builtin shell is that bad.16:18
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javispedroand the libc?16:18
javispedrothe best way to describe it: it's like a deconstruction of unix.16:18
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MohammadAGjavispedro, hah16:19
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MohammadAGI like how most commands fail in the android shell16:20
MohammadAGeither Permission Denied or no output at all16:20
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javispedroyou want to use sysv or posix ipc? sorry! we instead offer you our crappy "Android SHM" with no support for semaphores, mutexes, or anything. We're only single core! For performance!16:21
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* javispedro rants some more, quietly.16:27
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javispedrosymbian is more posixy than this...16:28
javispedrowhich is quite, quite sad.16:29
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ShadowJKI found no hints of posix in symbian :)16:34
MohammadAGI found DBus on Symbian^316:34
korhojoathere's DBus on it?16:34
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javispedrothere's even glibc16:35
korhojoaoh wow16:35
javispedro(see the open C stuff)16:35
javispedroso, symbian implements sysvipc. bionic does not.16:35
pupnikebay germany lists the N900 as having AMOLED screen16:36
ArkenoiIs console io still broken?16:36
korhojoa_o| \o| \o/ |o/ |o_16:36
Arkenoion S^3?16:36
korhojoapupnik: ebay? probably a seller?16:36
javispedroI did not check, but I'm sure they even fully implement pthreads, bionic does not.16:36
pupnikkorhojoa: no, ebay.  not the seller. ebay16:36
javispedropupnik: haha.16:36
korhojoawhaa :D16:36
ShadowJKI haven't seen symbian^3 :)16:37
pupnikor rather, a job filled by the wrong person16:37
ShadowJKMy E75 has s60v3fp2 oe something16:38
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korhojoaShadowJK: i think it's got fp316:38
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MohammadAGthere's no FP3 for V316:38
korhojoareally? :<16:39
korhojoasaddened, I am.16:39
MohammadAGFP2 is the last one16:39
korhojoabut there is one for v116:39
MohammadAGor 216:39
MohammadAGUnannounced Nokia X7-00 and C5-04 Found on Ovi Store <- lol fail16:40
javispedroclearly, those are atom phones!16:40
* ShadowJK wonders about C6-01, does it exist yet16:40
korhojoaMohammadAG: :D16:40
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achipaShadowJK: depends on your country I guess17:08
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achipaand let's not forget that deep down, every phone has an atom or two (or a billion...) in it :)17:10
MohammadAGneed to learn GTK or find a way to start Qt apps faster :/17:11
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achipaboost 'em17:12
javispedrosomething that harmattan will probably already have17:12
javispedroachipa: is the qt booster already one?17:12
Venemoalterego: are you still here?17:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, well, I want to rewrite control panel applets that don't behave17:13
javispedrohum, that is a no go, as the control panel itself acts as a gtk+ booster..17:13
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pupnikdigital-8 camcorders still fetch insane prices17:14
MohammadAGthat's why I want to learn gtk17:14
MohammadAGQt applets work fine, they just hang the UI for 2s or so17:14
MohammadAGwhile gtk applets are instant17:14
MohammadAGshouldn't be too hard, I think17:15
javispedrounfortunately bare gtk+ will mostly slow you down..17:15
javispedro(I mean, as a coder :) )17:15
achipajavispedro: uhm, I think I saw some of that stuff in MTF, not sure how easily transplantable would that be to plain qt17:16
achipajavispedro: and of course something by the name of another well esatblished library is not helping searches...17:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, what do you mean by "bare gtk+"?17:16
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javispedroMohammadAG: "not vala" =)17:16
MohammadAGwhy would it slow me down?17:17
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alteregoVenemo: yeah, what's up?17:17
javispedroachipa: oh. fremantle had a skeleton qt booster module, but it does nothing (apart from NOT preloading gtk+ libs, which is already nice =) ).17:18
MohammadAGvala, I recall qwerty12 mentioned that in one of his sources17:18
Venemoalterego: I managed to do most of what I wanted but I still have a glitch :(17:19
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* javispedro recently develop the theory that Gtk+ applications usually have less featured (aka "simpler") GUIs because it is more time consuming to create and implement a Gtk+ GUI =)17:20
javispedrowhich I'm not sure is a bad or good thing :)17:21
Venemoalterego: accept my invitation to ##puzzle-master17:21
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MohammadAGjavispedro, lol17:22
Venemojavispedro: you can use gtkmm if you want something simpler17:22
MohammadAGjavispedro, the notification light applet is an example17:23
javispedroor vala17:23
Venemoyeah, or vala17:23
MohammadAGit's just 6 checkboxes and a save button17:23
MohammadAGwhich I'm guessing is 6 HildonCheckButtons and a HildonPannableArea17:23
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MohammadAGthe save button's probably a GtkButton right?17:24
MohammadAGand the dialog is a GtkDialog17:24
javispedrothe button is probably managed by the GtkDialog itself17:24
VenemoMohammadAG: probably HildonButton and HildonDialog, not sure about the latter.17:24
javispedrothere's a GtkDialog construct that accepts a set of stock button and their actions17:24
VenemoMohammadAG: but javispedro is right, it may be handled by the dialog itself17:24
javispedroHildonDialog is deprecated in fremantle, use gtkdialog17:24
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jacekowskiuse qt17:29
MohammadAGjacekowski, too slow for control panel applets17:30
MohammadAGstock applets open instantly17:30
javispedrobecause the host app is a gtk+ one, so it just calls the applet's show function. While with a QT applet it has to link with all the Qt libs, then do static, dynamic initialization, etc.17:31
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alteregoHow do I do that?17:33
achipajavispedro: that's not theory, that's fact17:33
jacekowskijavispedro: afaik applets are preloaded17:33
achipajavispedro: and with qml it will become even more apparent17:33
javispedroachipa: hehe :)17:33
jacekowskijavispedro: so you could just make everything ready on load17:33
jacekowskiand then just wait for show17:33
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achipajavispedro: and I would go even further - if QML gains general traction, it can easily be the thing that turns the tide in the now prevalent 'open source apps are sucky (because they look sucky)' view17:36
achipait 'just' needs to survive long enough to mature :)17:37
javispedronote the other part of my theory -- that gnome is actually simpler because of gtk+ is hard.17:37
javispedroI also fear that if doing monstruous, giant UIs suddently becomes easier, we'll have KDE.17:38
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javispedro(and I actually can see this KDEification even in MaemoQT(HildonQt ;) ) apps, but I guess that's because I'm being overly paranoid)17:39
achipajavispedro: was talking mainly in the context of single apps17:39
Venemoachipa: I asked many people, but noone seemed to know the correct answer17:40
Venemoachipa: is QML compiled or interpreted?17:40
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achipaVenemo: neither17:40
achipaor both :)17:40
Venemoachipa: elaborate please17:40
achipahow familiar are you with .ui files ?17:42
achipamaybe it's easier to explain that way17:42
Venemoachipa: sufficently I think. moc generates .h files from them so they are compiled.17:42
achiparight. but not necessarily :)17:42
Venemoachipa: ?17:43
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Venemoachipa: so it's possible to use them in an interpreted way too17:43
achipathe bottom line is - there is no 'interpreter' in the sense of something running and continuously evaluating expressions (except for embedded JS, but let's talk about that separately)17:44
achipait is basically a parser that constructs regular C++ objects17:44
Venemoachipa: well this QFormBuilder seems like an interpreter to me. it interprets a .ui in runtime and constructs objects according to it, doesn't it?17:45
achipayou could equally have a QML to .CPP compiler just as you have for .ui17:45
Venemoachipa: XAML works this way: it's added to the executables as an embedded resource and then it's interpreted in runtime. this makes it that slow17:46
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Venemoachipa: this is why I'm hoping that QML doesn't do such hocus-pocus and it's compiled to native code17:46
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achipathe only way QML affects speed is the initial startup, after the objects are constructed, it doesn't add or detract (again, JS caveat)17:48
Venemoachipa: ookay17:48
Venemoachipa: so it is just as insane as XAML :(17:48
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achipaVenemo: and, I would expect soon enough someone will make a qml->cpp compiler if it becomes such a big problem17:49
Venemoachipa: sadly I don't think anyone will care17:49
achipaVenemo: I have not used xaml, but IIUC it's in a somewhat worse position, as it goes through the .net stuff, plus XML parsing is heavier than what QML does17:52
achipabut otherwise, yes ,the approach does look similar17:53
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Venemoachipa: XAML is translated to BAML so no XML parsing is involved.17:54
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villagerjavispedro: no, gnome is not simpler because gtk+ is hard, gnome is simpler because of ideology - early gnomes actually had more complex UIs, but the Powers That Be worked to eradicate that17:54
Venemovillager: I use Gnome exactly because of its simplicity17:54
villageryes, I use gnome too17:54
javispedroand I used Gnome there as an example only, was the second thing that came to mind.17:55
RST38hEHLO javispedro17:55
Venemovillager: KDE is maybe a bit more eye-candy (with Compiz it's equally as good)17:55
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Venemovillager: however in KDE it's much harder to find any options that I'm looking for. in Gnome, it's just System/Preferences17:55
javispedrohey RST38h17:55
achipaVenemo: but BAML is just an intermediary format, isn't it ? i.e. it's just a more machine friendly representation of the structure17:55
villagerVenemo: I like gnome, I did not say that this ideology is bad, I just tried to present it in a neutral way17:56
Venemookay villager :)17:56
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villagerVenemo: not everyone likes that ideology (kde users for example), though, and I certainly would have liked more options in certain apps...17:57
villagerVenemo: but overall I think it's a good idea if you're going for user-friendliness17:57
Venemoachipa: correct17:58
Venemovillager: yeah, I agree17:58
Venemovillager: some more options would be of course welcome, but I like the overall minimalism of their UI17:58
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* achipa has a flamboyant comment about comparing mac and gnome, but will refrain from it in the name of desktop peace18:02
GuySofthey all, if i want to write a GUI (twitter client) that will work both on N810 and N900, any toolkit you might recommend?18:05
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MohammadAGQt 4.518:05
MohammadAGYATC - Yet Another Twitter Client? x{18:06
GuySoftMohammadAG, it will be the ONLY client for N81018:06
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javispedroNote that Qt on the N8x0 is in a worse shape.18:06
GuySoftso anything else perhaps?18:07
RST38hjavispedro: how is reality tonight?18:08
RST38hsolid enough?18:08
javispedrono, it's more like gruyère18:08
* RST38h has not idea what gruyère is but suspects it is cheese.18:09
javispedroit is =)18:09
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javispedrohave some work to do now, but been trying the Android SDK18:10
javispedroa horrible, horrible experience so far...18:10
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javispedrohad to download nearly 2GiB of git repos to build the ext3 module for the emulator kernel...18:11
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RST38hjavispedro: Ah haha18:12
RST38hjavispedro: I *looked* at the Android stuff but have notinstalled it yet: too much other work that has to be done on a tight schedule18:12
javispedrobig time sink...18:15
javispedroAlso, I wonder who had the idea to ship the emulator configured with less than 90MiB of RAM.18:15
javispedrorunning busybox meant the system started OoM killing the UI...18:15
javispedro(busybox as a static binary.... otherwise you don't even get a sane mount command)18:16
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MohammadAGwho's on PR1.0? :P18:17
MohammadAGnaw crap18:19
MohammadAG3h to download one image for a 100kb file...18:19
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DocScrutinizerHello, hei joerg_rw!18:25
DocScrutinizerMake a resolution to simplify your life this year with the sleek new Nokia Ovi Suite. Browse Ovi's massive music library to put together the perfect playlist, download free street maps to your phone, get recommendations for the best mobile apps, share photos and videos with family and friends, and much more.18:25
RST38hjavispedro: Sounds almost like these guys did not know what Linux was =)18:25
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RST38hDoc: Guess at which point of this message I threw up.18:26
javispedroRST38h: see a few hours ago for my rantins about their pure crap c library.18:26
javispedroI keep it that it resembles more a deconstruction of unix than anything else.18:26
VenemoMohammadAG: what file?18:26
RST38hjavispedro: For unknown reasons, too18:26
RST38hjavispedro: Why the hell would they need to rewrite libc???18:26
MohammadAGVenemo, lock screen18:27
MohammadAGthe PR1.0 had transitions18:27
MohammadAGPR1.0 one18:27
VenemoMohammadAG: hmm :)18:27
javispedrooh well they try to go to great lengths to explain their decisions, but usually, it comes down to both points: they thought multicore phones where far away, AND, they didn't know how to use ulimit.18:27
DocScrutinizerRST38h: with the very first 'i'?18:27
MohammadAGI'd say at Ovi18:28
RST38hMohammad <-- correct18:28
* javispedro usually stops reading at "your life".18:29
RST38hjavispedro: and not knowing how to use ulimit made them rewrite libc??? Hmmm18:29
VenemoDocScrutinizer: where does that come from?18:29
DocScrutinizerNokia <>18:30
javispedroRST38h: well to be fair they would have to introduce new limits, like sysv ipc keys, that they seem to think as the evil reincarnated.18:30
MohammadAGRST38h, yay, what do I win?18:30
DocScrutinizer~dict hei18:30
infobotcould not find definition for hei18:30
RST38hMohammad: an Ovi Suite install package!18:32
* MohammadAG pukes18:32
javispedroRST38h: though I also fear the real reason is the usual one: Bionic is BSD. They used BSD code for the trivial libm/math.h functions, etc.18:32
javispedroand avoided anything they would probably need to pull code from a GPL lib.18:33
javispedrothen made the appropiate excuses and shipped it.18:33
DocScrutinizerandridiot? meh!18:34
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RST38hjavispedro: they are already using Linux kernel. What difference will using gnu libc make?18:37
RST38hjavispedro: furthermore, if they absolutely hate gnu libc, why not use BSD libc, as a whole?18:37
RST38heither will be fine, I guess18:37
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javispedroprolly the bsd libc would need some work under Linux, as for the other question, ask them..18:38
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RST38hjavispedro: On the other hand, after suffering Symbian libc, nothing can make me flinch.18:54
javispedroat least it implements sysv ipc ;) in fact seems to be enough to run gnome's glib.18:55
MohammadAGhow do I change branches after cloning?18:56
MohammadAGshouldn't it be git checkout branchname?18:57
RST38hthere should be a special command to change the pbranch in the existing tree18:57
javispedroRST38h: I was getting scared that the symbian libc actually seemed more posix to me than bionic. Symbian at least is trying...18:57
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RST38hjavispedro; Not on their own accord though. They had to implement libc when porting MIDP to Symbian :)18:58
javispedroMohammadAG: (git checkout) yep, should, unless it is remote.18:58
javispedroRST38h: that one (OpenC) is the one I'm talking, seems complete. But didn't had the "pleasure" to use it.18:59
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VenemoMohammadAG: correct18:59
VenemoMohammadAG: if it's remote, then you'll need git fetch too18:59
RST38hjavispedro: Oh, I had to use the one that came before19:00
Venemojavispedro: I haven't seen any updates for OpenTTD. what's up with it? :)19:00
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RST38hjavispedro: estlib.lib19:00
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javispedroVenemo: less free time than last year. Also, still waiting for someone/upstream to reflow the dialogs..19:01
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RST38hRS232-to-USB driver crashed, completely fucking up Win7 USB subsystem.19:02
RST38hRebooting. =(19:02
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Venemojavispedro :(19:02
pupnikpeople still trying to sell nokia e61s for 119 euro >_<19:03
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MohammadAGVenemo, so how do I switch to a remote one?19:07
RST38hpupnik: given that some people are trying to sell virginity, on eBay, I do not find E61 offers amusing19:09
javispedroVenemo: just bumping version should be easy enough, however there are many other things I had on the queue (music, dialogs, upstream kinetic scrolling..)19:10
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RST38hjavispedro: bionic has at least one virtue, that I can see19:12
RST38hjavispedro; *No STL*19:12
* javispedro actually kinda likes STL, at least the basic parts of it..19:13
javispedrobasically containers and char strings... the rest...19:13
RST38hYou can throw together a string class in a matter of hour19:15
RST38hAnd reuse it later in all your projects19:15
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RST38hContainers will take a bit longer but at least you will know for sure how they work :)19:15
javispedroi used to do that, but string is fine enough19:15
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MohammadAGjavispedro, git fetch branchname should get me the branch?19:18
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javispedroI usually use git branch -r19:19
javispedrogit checkout --track -b <local> <remote> should work19:20
javispedrofor ex. if git branch -r shows origin/my-branch-119:20
javispedrogit checkout --track -b my-branch-1 origin/my-branch-119:20
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pupnikwhat's the cheapest umts/3g phone for tethering?19:39
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stevomanuBasically any 3G phone will support "tethering".19:41
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sean_wHi. What is the best way to sync contacts and use my Google Voice caller ID?20:01
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toresbe       /win 7820:08
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trumeeIs it possible to automatically run openvpn when i connect to a specific ssid?20:20
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trumeeguess poking /etc/network/if-up.d would do the trick20:25
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MohammadAGwhat's a space in regexes?20:28
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kerioMohammadAG: is that the start of a pun?20:37
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Proteousa regex and a perl script walk into a bar20:38
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* kerio doesn't get it20:38
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trumeeis there any way to get the ssid of the wlan connection?20:51
trumeei want to invoke openvpn/change sip connections Before a certain wlan gets connected. I was thinking of putting some script in if-up.pre.d20:52
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ShadowJKare if-up if-down scripts executed at all on maemo?20:53
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trumeeShadowJK, are they not?20:53
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ShadowJKI'd assume a pessimistic outlook before proven wrong :-)20:54
trumeethat will be a bummer.20:54
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DocScrutinizer51Venemo: your puzzle-master killed my phone :-P20:59
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DocScrutinizer5111 year old tester thought he'd like to have a 33 * 33 puzzle XD20:59
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: yay! :P21:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: don't worry, 15×15 is the max in my current builds21:00
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: although I wouldn't try that size on the N900 either21:00
DocScrutinizer51though it's probably mainly fremantle's swap and OOM to blame, you still should ulimit your app21:01
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: well I may set different limits according to platforms21:01
DocScrutinizer51took 30min of patience to recover, via 'doesn't react. Kill?'21:02
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: but imagine that 33×33 involves the creation of 1089 pixmaps.21:02
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DocScrutinizer51I'm aware of that21:02
VenemoDocScrutinizer51:  :)21:02
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: also, it's virtually unplayable in that size in such a small screen :P21:03
DocScrutinizer51another suggestion: aliases for the resolutions, and also for the pictures21:04
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: aliases?21:05
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: what do you mean by aliases?21:05
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DocScrutinizer51sorry, roaming21:11
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DocScrutinizer51a better name than /home/user/foo/bar/acme.jpg21:11
DocScrutinizer51plus preset sets like 'name=my_simpleJR; x=6; y=5; accel=false'21:11
Venemothat's a good idea21:13
Venemoand how would you give any name to /home/user/foo/bar/acme.jpg? should it be user-settable or what?21:13
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DocScrutinizerideally yes21:20
DocScrutinizerwith defaulting to basename21:20
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Venemohm DocScrutinizer, okay21:21
DocScrutinizerfor the profiles - you might want to store these with the pictures21:22
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DocScrutinizers/profiles/preset sets(.21:22
DocScrutinizerso one picture is a 4*4, while the other is 6*821:23
DocScrutinizerediting the x*y in settings would just change that one picture then21:23
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DocScrutinizerbut that's not seamless with current UI paradigma, so it might need further thinking to file off rough edges21:24
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DocScrutinizertge accel has been considered funny useless cheating21:25
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* javispedro is stocking popcorn for mwc21:26
DocScrutinizerand it doesn't notice when all tiles fell in place, you need to touch screen and slightly move one tile so the game is solved21:26
DocScrutinizer(has been considered - by my tester :-D )21:27
DocScrutinizer(that's why he thought he wants to cheat with 33 * 33)21:27
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: this is by design21:29
VenemoDocScrutinizer: you have to assemble the pieces by yourself, the game won't solve itself with the accel :P21:30
DocScrutinizerbut that 11 yo boy preferred puzzle master over his 5222(?) music xpress marble rollercoaster game, so it's actually of a certain attractiveness21:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer:  :)21:31
DocScrutinizerVenemo: (by design) my tester didn't understand that21:31
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: tell your tester, "you have to solve your puzzle, it won't solve itself"21:32
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I'll give you a newer build soon, it has some more eyecandy21:32
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DocScrutinizerI did, still it took him 30s and then some tries to solve the ceated one21:32
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: hm21:33
DocScrutinizeractually it's a rather useless option21:33
VenemoDocScrutinizer: you mean, what is a rather useless option?21:33
Venemowell it isn't supposed to be cheating.21:34
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DocScrutinizerit is though. A blind person could solve arbitrary puzzles21:34
Venemoaccel moves the pieces with supposedly random speed, I don't really know why it cheats21:35
Venemoalthough I noticed it myself21:35
DocScrutinizerflip the device left/right and up/down 6 times, and the puzle is solved, you just need to touch screen21:36
DocScrutinizerit's like filling a pill tablet21:36
DocScrutinizer(if you wonder: those boards with 100 holes. you move power ower them until all holes are filled, then press 100 pills with a 2nd board with matching bolts21:37
VenemoDocScrutinizer: yes, I noticed, but I don't know the reason.21:38
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I want it to be random.21:38
DocScrutinizerthen that's a bug21:38
DocScrutinizeranyway, don't make it default21:38
DocScrutinizerand make your app call ulimit to avoid swap-killing whole system, no matter what21:39
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: what is ulimit?21:40
DocScrutinizerumm, a shell comand which I have nfc what's the c equivalent for21:43
VenemoDocScrutinizer: and what does it do?21:44
DocScrutinizerjust learned it's not a system function obviously, at least for memusage etc21:44
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DocScrutinizerfor shell it limits the usage of memory, the count of file handles, filesize, etc, of childs21:45
DocScrutinizerbash: help ulimit21:46
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well the limitation of puzzle sizes should fix this21:46
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: also now there's auto rotation in the newest build21:49
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: umm, seems I missed to update to newest puzzlemaster prior to "testing" it?21:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer: no, the newest build is not packaged21:55
DocScrutinizerthere's no version info in "about" :-/21:55
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: will put it in there21:56
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DocScrutinizerso, gimme some ahdjkpffz to click on, to update!21:57
Venemoookay, just wait a moment :P21:58
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: do you prefer a binary package or building from source yourself?22:05
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piggzwhats new in the hildon-desktop update i just got?22:20
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Venemopiggz: probably the community SSU?22:21
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piggzVenemo: i know that, just wondered what the change was :)22:21
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Venemopiggz: I dunno, ask on #maemo-ssu22:22
VenemoDocScrutinizer: so?22:23
MohammadAGsee debian/changelog or gitorious22:23
MohammadAG~seen merlin199122:23
infobotmerlin1991 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 1h 39m 25s ago, saying: 'time I finally read that opengles book I own :)'.22:23
piggzMohammadAG: ok22:23
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piggzooo, desaturation....lets try it out22:27
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VenemoBCMM: instead of blurring22:29
BCMMi, was wondering if it was for that22:30
BCMM(as the modal-parent effect, right?)22:30
BCMMalso, is this an ssu thing? are we discussing this in the wrong place?22:30
unixSnobanyone know how to get ahold of the gpg key E40DC434616730BD?22:30
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VenemoBCMM: it's a configurable option22:31
BCMMVenemo: in what?22:31
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MohammadAGyou need a custom hildon-desktop22:32
MohammadAGthe next CSSU update will include it and make it configurable, thanks to thp22:32
BCMMMohammadAG: that's what i was wondering, thanks22:32
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BCMMMohammadAG: next as in  the one i'm installing now, or the one after that?22:33
MohammadAGthe one after it22:33
MohammadAGi'll hopefully upload it today22:33
piggzah, i thought it was in already as it was comitted22:34
piggzmy error22:34
BCMMit's always bugged me that one can't read the parent window other than in short snatches while switching windows22:35
MohammadAGI'd upload it, but my laptop lacks WoL :P22:35
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BCMMtalking of how it's annoying having to actually physically go to where a device is sometimes, what's the simplest way to make sound some from a shell, even if the n900 is on silent?22:36
BCMM(for when i am SSH'ed in, but can't find the damn thing)22:37
BCMM(yes this actually happens quite a lot)22:37
MohammadAGI use my script22:37
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MohammadAGphone-control --volume 100, then i use mplayer22:37
BCMMMohammadAG: so what does phone-control do? convenient command-line access to stuff which doesn't otherwise have convenient command-line access?22:38
MohammadAGBCMM, I can't remember dbus paths and I hate having to browse the wiki to look up the dbus command for something22:39
VenemoDocScrutinizer: see
MohammadAGso I merged all (or most?) commands from the Phone Control wiki in one script22:39
VenemoDocScrutinizer: now I'll start with your latest recommendations22:39
BCMMMohammadAG: splendid!22:40
SpeedEvilplay-sound /usr/share/sounds/game-chess_checkmate.wav22:41
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, doesn't work in silent afaik22:42
BCMMnah, it's the other half of the problem22:42
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: ah22:43
unixSnobFor the logs => To properly get around the missing key error "NO_PUBKEY E40DC434616730BD", run this: gpg --keyserver hkp:// --recv-key E40DC434616730BD && gpg --armor --export E40DC434616730BD | apt-key add -22:43
MohammadAGplay_sound ignores volume, always uses 10022:43
BCMMi'm going to do both in a simple script and call in whereami22:43
BCMM(like whoami, the other command one only types when one's brain has temporarily stopped working)22:43
MohammadAGbut only in general22:43
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MohammadAGsometimes I just echo 255 into the vibra22:44
VenemoMohammadAG: what does that do?22:44
MohammadAGits sound is enough to find the device22:44
BCMMMohammadAG: 255? is the strength of the vibration configurable?22:44
SpeedEvilit's analog22:44
SpeedEvilIt starts at around 19 - varying in temp22:44
SpeedEvilthough at that output, you can;'t feel it22:45
MohammadAGVenemo, start the vibra22:45
VenemoMohammadAG: ah.22:46
MohammadAGecho 255 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness22:46
MohammadAGtry it as root22:46
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MohammadAGtouching the screen will disable it, ideal when doing it over ssh22:47
unixSnobfuck me... The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG E40DC434616730BD Extras repositories (Fremantle Extras) <>22:47
VenemoDocScrutinizer: your tester should test full screen mode and automatic rotation :P22:47
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unixSnobgetting the proper key installed just avoids the first problem22:47
MohammadAGalso if you know a desperate girl and she has an N900....22:47
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BCMMMohammadAG: surely that would void the warranty?22:48
MohammadAGBCMM, depends on the girl22:48
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: sleep 2; echo 255 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness22:48
trxand the vibration FQ22:48
VenemoDocScrutinizer: also the animations are refined, plus the puzzle assembles itself when you surrender22:49
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that's not necessary over ssh22:49
DocScrutinizerI know22:49
DocScrutinizerVenemo: he's asleep now, I guess22:49
MohammadAGtrx, yeah, and what happens after 20 minutes22:49
MohammadAGthe slider might become loose22:49
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well I'll suffice with you then if you wanna test :P22:49
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trxyeah, or strange fluids might make a short..22:50
BCMMwhy does "echo 20 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness" produce a quite beeping noise?22:50
DocScrutinizerwatching news about Egypt, maybe later22:50
DocScrutinizerBCMM: PWM cycle freq22:50
Venemoalso DocScrutinizer, it's now not possible to cover a piece with a bigger piece22:51
SpeedEvilBCMM: PWM frequrncy22:51
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: vib motor gets switched on for 20 parts and off for 235 parts of a 1/4000 second22:52
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DocScrutinizerbtw 255 for vib might be not safe for extended periods of time. And it's useless anyway - I found the effect is even better on lower power for the vib. 255 is simply too fast for such a heavy device to make it vibrate23:00
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DocScrutinizerthough vibrator REALLY behaves extremely strange when echo 100 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness while locked23:05
RST38hvibrator has brightness? =)23:05
DocScrutinizerthere's *definitely* something ODD going on23:05
DocScrutinizeryeah :-S23:05
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trumeeGuys, it it possible to run the Openvpn applet from the command line?23:06
DocScrutinizervib is a LED23:06
VenemoRST38h: according to the kernel, the vibrator is a led23:06
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BCMMRST38h: presumably, it's connected to the same system that does LED brightness23:06
BCMMthe LEDs are definitely PWM, because i can see it23:06
trumeeI can always call openvpn directly in a script, but it will be more useful to have a gui feedback the applet23:06
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DocScrutinizerit's so fsckng hilarious how vib behaves, I just wonder what strange bug that might be. Suspect CPU freq governour23:07
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: nope23:09
BCMMDocScrutinizer: to what?23:09
DocScrutinizerBCMM: LEDs are completely different hw23:09
BCMMheh, so why does it have brightness?23:10
DocScrutinizerbecause of it's a similar type of device?23:10
trxbrightness = voltage is it not?23:11
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DocScrutinizerdamn, could anybody confirm this totally random fsckdup behaviour of vib, for `echo 150 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness` while locked?23:12
BCMMwill my n900 explode?23:12
VenemoBCMM: of course23:13
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DocScrutinizerprobably they'd have been better off calling it intensity rather than brightness, for all devices of class LED23:13
DocScrutinizerBCMM: nope23:13
BCMMDocScrutinizer: what sort of oddness? it just vibrates, loudly23:13
BCMMwhat does yours do?23:14
DocScrutinizermine changes between 255-intesity, 150-intesity, and 0, on a random pattern23:14
trxwierd :D23:14
trxchanges patterns23:15
DocScrutinizertrue random, yes23:15
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DocScrutinizerwell, not true, but at least good enough23:15
DocScrutinizerno pattern23:16
trxno pattern at all23:16
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DocScrutinizerstop mce didn't help23:17
DocScrutinizerseems a true kernel bug23:17
DocScrutinizerI suspect CPU clock freq changes firing back to PWM somehow23:17
DocScrutinizerthe most strange thing is it only happens when locked23:19
DocScrutinizerwell, screen brightness as well has one component controlled by same hw PWM23:20
DocScrutinizerso it might be possible that something gets disabled or misconfig'd when screen goes to sleep (aka dim backlight)23:20
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DocScrutinizerI prolly should check the kernel driver source23:22
DocScrutinizerI guess I could spot the bug23:22
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DocScrutinizer(btw I mentioned this already some 6..9 months ago, seems I should have opened a ticket instead)23:23
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DocScrutinizertrx: so what's the kernel you are using?23:26
trxpower v4623:27
DocScrutinizersame here23:27
DocScrutinizergoing to check with stock kernel, but I thnk I'm sure it happened some 6 months ago as well, on stock23:28
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DocScrutinizerMEH, OK on stock23:29
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DocScrutinizerso my next suspect is this friggin dbrightness patch23:30
DocScrutinizerwhich is cmpletely unclear how it's meant to work anyway23:31
MohammadAGpull the battery23:31
MohammadAGswitching kernels won't help23:31
MohammadAGLED gone?23:32
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MohammadAGor did misinterpret that23:32
MohammadAG= me sounding like an idiot23:32
DocScrutinizerpower kernel buggy23:32
MohammadAGdid I*23:32
VenemoMohammadAG: would you please test the latest puzzle-master?
DocScrutinizerX-( missing pkgs: libhildon-extras1; libhildon1 (>=2.2.22)23:35
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: or just install from -devel23:35
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: could you kick out that dbrightness patch?23:37
MohammadAGnot now, in bed :P23:38
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GAN900MohammadAG, lazy bastard.23:40
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DocScrutinizer51Venemo: no puzzlemaster to install or update, even from -devel23:44
MohammadAGGAN900, got school :P23:44
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: I meant that for the libs23:44
VenemoDocScrutinizer51: puzzlemaster update will go to -devel after you have tested it :)23:44
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VenemoDocScrutinizer51: especially interested in your 11-year-old tester :) so please show it to him(her?) tomorrow :)23:48
DocScrutinizer51I'm reluctant to (try) install those libs23:49
MohammadAGVenemo, where do you store recently used images?23:50
chem|stI think my debian killed my external hdd...23:50
VenemoMohammadAG: QSettings23:51
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VenemoMohammadAG: ~/.conf/Venemo/Puzzle Master/...23:52
xuggsHi. Can someone help figure why this is failing?
MohammadAGVenemo, do you save on exit?23:52
MohammadAGcause I had to delete it, twice :p23:53
xuggsI am trying to use SIP over OpenVPN but it fails to connect23:53
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VenemoMohammadAG: I save it when you add a new one23:54
VenemoMohammadAG: and the app doesn't forget them while it's running23:54
VenemoMohammadAG: I'll add options to maintain the list23:54
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GAN900MohammadAG, no excuse.23:57

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