IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-02-03

javispedromight be.... ie it might intercept call to true and run a builtin?00:00
anidelunless our sysadmins agree :)00:00
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DocScrutinizeror wait, probably bash is using internal true, even when you ask for /bin/true00:00
anideljavispedro, probably.. how ` is called? ' is a quote, " is a double-quote and ` ?00:00
javispedrobacktick00:00
anidelDocScrutinizer, thought about that as well..00:00
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anidelshould be weird.. /bin/true is one thing.. .true is another00:00
javispedroyeah, it would be news if it was builtin-ing a call to /bin/true..00:01
anidelif I specify a path, it's because I want to be sure you run whatever is on the FS00:01
DocScrutinizerwhatever, I'm sure your condept has worse problems than that00:01
DocScrutinizernever heard you need to trap SIGCHLD to get kbd input00:01
* javispedro goes watch some TV for a change00:01
Sc0rpiusI still don't get it why can't you choose your own shell, even if you're not root00:01
anidelDocScrutinizer, well it was just to get all "weird" signals, 1, 3, 15, 16, 1700:01
Sc0rpiusif you can edit the script, you can use whatever you want00:01
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anidelSc0rpius, I can, but this is work related.. some constraints on the way we do things in here... we can , but we should branch off the script we're using00:02
anideland in our team we don't want that.. so.. was trying to understand what's the real issue here00:02
anidelthat's why I asked for a bash guru :)00:03
DocScrutinizerwhatever, SIGCHLD gets sent from child to parent process when child quits. child may be any arbitrary process started by parent00:03
anidelyep, that's why I think BASH is doing something particular with `/bin/true`00:04
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DocScrutinizerthat's why *I* think SIGCHLD is not the correct signal for any usecase faintly resembling yours00:04
Sc0rpiuscan I install a previous version of any software using apt-get ?00:05
Sc0rpiusand not the latest one?00:05
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VenemoSc0rpius: if the previous one is still present in the repo then yes00:05
anidelDocScrutinizer, we are also wondering that.. and we'll think about it... let's assume we need it.00:05
VenemoSc0rpius: 'apt-get install thepackage=version'00:05
anidelit's now a curiosity..00:05
Sc0rpiusand how can I browse versions available in the repo using apt-cache?00:05
VenemoSc0rpius: that I don't know.00:06
VenemoSc0rpius: you can use the maemo.org package interface though00:06
DocScrutinizerwhen you need it, you must be happy with the way it works. Where's the problem then?00:06
anidelit works differently in bash and dash .. I wanted to understand why00:06
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DocScrutinizerwell, read the source of bash and dash and you'll know for sure00:07
anidel:D00:07
anidelthanks :p00:07
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Sc0rpiusapt-cache showpkg <package>00:07
DocScrutinizerbash might implement monitoring of childs by its own00:07
DocScrutinizerdash might not00:08
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anidelit might...00:08
Sc0rpiusthank you Venemo it worked00:08
DocScrutinizerSIGCHLD isn't usually meant to be used in trap00:08
anidelwhy not? if I want to monitor my childs why shouldn't I use it in trap?00:09
DocScrutinizerit's simply not explicitly masked out as there's nothing *bad* happening if you use a trap on SIGCHLD00:09
DocScrutinizerbecause there are better ways to monitor subshells. And monitoring child processes is a meaningless effort00:10
anidelyou can't possibly now all the cases one need to do something00:11
anidelI might agree on this very specific case00:11
anidelbut I wouldn't rule it out a priori for all the cases out there00:11
DocScrutinizeranidel: bash: help wait00:11
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DocScrutinizerit's completely academic00:12
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anidelindeed00:12
DocScrutinizerno purpose to learn about it, in RL00:12
anidelno I know what you mean00:13
anidelbut in this case I am , as said, under constraints.. I didn't write the script, but I need to use it as is.. on the client machine sh -> bash and there's fine... on our test boxes sh -> dash and it doesn't even enter the loop.00:13
anidelUnderstanding what exactly is different, helps and it's also academic00:14
anidelno matter what one thinks about how things are done00:14
DocScrutinizermeh, find a way to make nonsense behave nonsensical on all shells then. Not my problem00:15
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Sc0rpiusI'd still change the first line of the script and that's it00:15
anideloh come on...this was just a question of why the two shells behave differently, if you don't care  then yeah it's not your problem...00:15
Sc0rpiusn need to be rude but come on00:16
Sc0rpiusnow that's a STUPID question00:16
Sc0rpiusdash is a TOTAL different shell00:16
Sc0rpius,like csh, ash, ksh00:16
Sc0rpiusTOTALLY differents00:16
Sc0rpiusyou should NEVER expect to behave them identically00:16
Sc0rpiusif you program for bash YOU HAVE TO USE BASH00:16
corecodehi00:16
Sc0rpiusthen go out and learn dash and program for that00:16
corecodeanybody know how i can tell fmms to scale the images it displays?00:17
anidelThings are goind wrong here :)00:17
anidelgoing..00:17
anidelif you write a script that could work on different shells00:17
anidelwouldn't you learn these differences?00:17
anidelI would.. and that's what I am trying to do here.00:17
DocScrutinizerthis usecase is so bizzare not even bash manual writers bothered to explain it00:17
DocScrutinizerso why should you?00:17
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anidelI'm not offending.. you guys are pusshing in different directions and don't get that I just asked what could be different in invoking `/bin/true` in dash and bash.00:18
corecodeanidel: what are you trying to do?00:18
Sc0rpiusit's hard to write a script that works on different shells, that's why they invented, decades ago, the #! command in the first line.00:18
DocScrutinizerit's a completely useless command sequence, and when it works different in another shell, so be it00:18
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anidelI KNOW it's HARD.. that's why I went here , thought it would be something nice that would help understand a behaviour00:19
DocScrutinizerbash uses builtins frequently00:19
corecodeso what is this about?00:19
anidelcorecode, nothing fancy.. I have a trap that traps SIGCHLD and a while loop on `/bin/true`. The trap callback is called in dash when true exits, while in bash it is not. Trying to understand why00:19
DocScrutinizeralso bash has quite sophisticated subprocess management00:19
DocScrutinizersee `help coproc`00:20
anidelI know perfectly, when bash was born I was there.00:20
DocScrutinizerdash prolly hasn't00:20
DocScrutinizerand doesn't00:20
DocScrutinizerand that's why00:20
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corecodeanidel: are you calling "true" or "/bin/true" or "command true"?00:21
anidel/bin/true00:21
corecodeand bash replaces it with a builtin?00:21
Sc0rpiuswell if you read the mans00:21
Sc0rpiusyou can see that dash and bash implement command substitution differently00:21
Sc0rpiusthat is using `command`00:21
Sc0rpiusin bash, it escapes to the current shell, execute the command00:22
Sc0rpiusin dash (from the man): The shell expands the command substitution by executing command in a subshell environment00:22
Sc0rpiusso when the subshell exits, you're fucked00:22
Sc0rpiusin bash, it's the same shell all the time00:22
corecodefwiw, my linux bash will run the binary00:22
DocScrutinizerwhat I said00:22
Sc0rpiusbecause SIGCHLD... what DocScrutinizer said, it's for ANY child process00:23
Sc0rpiusnot the one you want00:23
anidelSc0rpius, THAT is what I was looking into the MAN ... which section is that?00:23
anidelI know about CHLD00:23
Sc0rpius"Command substitution" look it up in both mans (bash & dash)00:23
Sc0rpiusin bash equals to escape to current shell00:23
Sc0rpiusin dash equals to fork to a subshell00:24
corecodeanidel: my bash will call the trap00:24
corecodewell, does00:24
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corecodeonly if i use /bin/true tho00:24
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anidelhttp://www.gnu.org/software/bash/manual/bashref.html#Command-Substitution ?00:25
DocScrutinizeralias /bin/true true00:25
DocScrutinizerMEH00:25
Sc0rpiusnow compare that to dash00:26
DocScrutinizerwho would EVER EVER EVER care about when a shell receives a SIGCHLD? o.O00:26
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corecodeDocScrutinizer: i do00:26
anidelwait.. here it just says that it executes COMMAND and substitutes it.. doesn't say how it executes it00:27
corecodeDocScrutinizer: i have scripts that use it00:27
DocScrutinizernow THAT script sure has to be interesting00:27
corecodei don't know what you are arguing about00:27
javispedroand you have read about the wait statement? ;)00:27
corecodeyes, i use that too00:27
corecodeand job control00:27
corecodeDocScrutinizer: just because you can't think of a use doesn't mean that there are infinite very reasonable uses of that00:28
Sc0rpiusyou know what I would do?00:28
Sc0rpiusinstead of $COMMAND &00:29
Sc0rpiusI would write a wrapper00:29
Sc0rpiusa .sh that runs $COMMAND (without the &) and then send a trap when it's finished00:29
DocScrutinizerI tend to use my wetware cycles better than trying to figure differneces between shells for usecases that *might* be imaginable but I never ever will run into them00:29
corecodeanidel: so why doesn't it trap?00:30
corecodeDocScrutinizer: yea, you rather rant about it on irc00:30
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keriobuuuuuuurn00:30
anidelso let say: ASSUMING you are FOR WHATEVER reason FORCED (or die) to use trap 17 (or trap CHLD)...and you run into this issue, WOULD you go and look at the difference between dash and bash? I would and went here to ask as I couldn't find it. After complaining about SOMETHING else, you guys finally gave me the answer "Command Subistitution". Thanks :)00:30
DocScrutinizerI suggested that before, Sc0rpius00:30
corecodeanidel: i would try it on both to make sure it works00:30
DocScrutinizerSIGUSR100:30
corecodebut i'm sure it will00:31
corecodebecause this is basics00:31
anidelcorecode, I am not sure yet.. even if bash doesn't create a subshell it should still have a child to run /bin/true I guess it won't trap SIGCHLD00:31
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corecodeanidel: i keep telling you, my bash traps SIGCHLD when i run /bin/true00:31
Sc0rpiuswell I haven't tried that00:31
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corecodeyou can also just force a child00:32
corecodeby using ()00:32
corecode(true) will send a sigchld as well00:32
DocScrutinizerlet's say I have an icepick and a bag of feathers, and I MUST smoke a pipe using those... what would I do..................00:32
anidelcorecode, u tested like this: trap 17 then while `/bin/true` ; do sleep 1000; done00:32
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anidelsorry00:32
corecodeanidel: no, i test it like this:00:32
anidelfunction bail_out () { echo bailed; exit}  then trap bail_out 1700:33
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DocScrutinizerbye folks, that's getting too weird here00:33
Sc0rpiusheh00:33
anidelDocScrutinizer, yes because you guys insisted in forcing your own opinions00:33
corecodetrap 'echo o hi' SIGCHLD00:34
anideland don't listen.. I said I AM FORCED to do that.00:34
DocScrutinizerno, because you insist in using a hammer to cook a chicken00:34
corecode/bin/true00:34
anidelI AM FORCED00:34
corecodeprints "o hi"00:34
Sc0rpiusfirst time I heard somebody is forced to use a specific shell00:34
ProteousMmm, hammer cooked chicken00:34
Sc0rpiusat work00:34
anidelah.. come on now :)00:34
DocScrutinizerBS, I'll force you to walk on water00:34
anidelI explained before00:34
corecodeanidel: i don't think these folks here are useful00:34
anidelamazing :)00:35
corecodeanidel: tell me which other # you're in and i can chat with you there00:35
DocScrutinizergo to your boss and ask how to do it00:35
anidelit's so simple...00:35
corecodeanidel: or do you prefer convincing the internet that they are wrong?00:35
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DocScrutinizer"boss, I *MUST* walk on water, I'm FORCED to do it. Why doesn't it work when it's above 0°C?"00:35
anidelthis is a old script that we are using EVERYWHERE and don't want to change unless we need to.. is it so difficult to undestand that? :)00:35
corecodei see00:35
anidelok.. anyway time to go home.. corecode thanks for your support00:35
corecodeit works here, that's all i can say00:36
Proteouscorecode gives it the "works on my machine" seal of approval00:36
anidelwait I'll paste you in pastebin corecode00:36
javispedroDocScrutinizer: "you don't have enough SYNERGY!!" <runs away>00:36
anidelcorecode, http://pastebin.com/j1E4ieX500:37
anidelworks?00:37
Proteousyeah, if only you moved this to the cloud you'd be fine00:37
corecodethat's /bin/sh00:37
corecodenot bash00:37
corecodewhy are you using backticks?00:38
anidelDocScrutinizer, Sc0rpius I understand your point but it's like saying "don't use Linux then and use Windows"00:38
anidelif you don't get a reason behind something, just accept it... that was it00:38
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm just getting angry when somebody comes with a borked to the bones concept and wants help to put it to work, rather than fix the BS in foundation00:38
anidelcorecode, I'm not.. that's the script :)00:38
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anidelanyway.. running ttyl00:38
Sc0rpiuswell I always say to everybody to use Windows.00:39
Sc0rpiusless headaches00:39
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corecodeanidel: you need set -m00:39
corecodeanidel: you need to switch on job control to get the traps00:40
DocScrutinizeranidel: if you'd ask me how to make foobar-shooter-win7 work, then yes, you'd get exactly that answer00:40
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DocScrutinizer"use windows for a wndows game"00:41
corecodeDocScrutinizer: nothing is broken.  works within the specifications00:41
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corecodeDocScrutinizer: shell can trap.  shell can trap!  shell can trap.00:41
DocScrutinizerI see, that's why he came here00:41
Sc0rpiusIT'S A TRAP00:41
DocScrutinizerit's a troll00:41
corecodewell, i came here to wonder how i can zoom in on a mms image00:41
corecodeand also how to get the animation shown00:42
javispedrocorecode: it was clearly a trap then00:42
Sc0rpiussave it and preview it with another software?00:42
corecodeSc0rpius: you have an idea which software to use?00:42
Sc0rpiuswell, no00:42
corecodeoh wow.  gtk can't show animated gifs by default00:43
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DocScrutinizerin my old flat I found stomping on the floor opened the door of the living room. I'm aware that's not supposed to work anywhere, but now we moved to a new flat and my boss err wife got used to it. So how would I make the door in new flat behave?00:45
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corecodeplonk00:46
Venemoalterego: what was the command to install something on MADDE sysroot?00:46
corecodeis it okay to set a password for user or will that break the system?00:48
DocScrutinizerbtw while true; do $COMMAD&; done # o.O isn't that the genuine forkbomb? WTF??00:49
corecodethat is, yes00:49
corecodenot bomb00:49
corecodebut close00:49
DocScrutinizerdepends on content of $COMMAD :-P00:50
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DocScrutinizerCOMMAD=$0; #forkbomd armed00:50
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DocScrutinizerand no trap on SIGCHLD will get that moster back into the bottle00:53
DocScrutinizerthe boss really must hate anidel00:55
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DocScrutinizercorecode: I set a password for root00:57
DocScrutinizercorecode: dunno about user00:58
DocScrutinizeraah no, actually I have set the password for user as well, but it's mostly useless (except for ssh)00:59
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DocScrutinizerso yes, you can set user password00:59
corecodeok00:59
corecodeyes, i ment to ssh in00:59
corecodeto hack on fmms00:59
DocScrutinizerand you can fix sudoers.conf to put root password to purpose00:59
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DocScrutinizers/.conf//01:00
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and you can fix sudoers to put root password to purpose01:00
DocScrutinizers/.conf/.d*/01:01
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: and you can fix sudoers.d* to put root password to purpose01:01
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SargunIs there an easy way to sync my maemo contacts with my online contacts?01:03
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Sarguns/online/outlook01:04
Proteousfrom an exchange server?01:04
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Sargunto would be better01:05
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SargunI imported a bunch on contacts in using some nifty little python script01:05
Venemoalterego: hey01:05
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Proteouswith the built in email client you can sync your contacts with exchange but I don't know if it will use existing contacts on your phone. I didn't use that feature01:06
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Proteousto be more clear, I don't know if it will sync existing contacts on your phone up to the exchange server01:07
SargunI had it sync down my gmail contacts, but now I'd like to add all (new) contacts to outlook01:07
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DocScrutinizerif nothing else helps, exporting the contacts to a vcf file might01:14
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corecodehow large is the user section of the display?01:38
corecodecan i find that somehow with gtk?01:38
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wokihi guys, my connection to my n900 keeps timing out from shell and qtcreator02:22
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wokieven with mad developer running02:22
wokiany ideas why?02:23
DocScrutinizerwho's wiki admin? SPAM ALERT! http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Talk:USB_host_mode&diff=next&oldid=3603502:27
lardmannight chaps02:28
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: how do you know it's spam02:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: do you speak russian?02:37
DocScrutinizerI can tell from the formatting easily02:38
DocScrutinizeralso from the URLs02:38
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DocScrutinizerI really doubt the point of enabling anonymous (unregistered) wiki edits02:42
wokiwhen i deploy an app i'm developing on my n900, where is the executable copied?02:44
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DocScrutinizerplease rephrase02:44
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wokito see if i was doing right ( following the meego examples ) i deployed the qt examples to my n90002:45
wokiusing the "release" mode in qtcreator02:45
wokiso what i want to know is "where does qtcreator copy the executable of my app to my n900 to be able to execute it"?02:46
wokidid you understand my question?02:48
DocScrutinizeryes02:48
* DocScrutinizer suggests "find"02:48
Sc0rpiusyou just wanna know where the executable file is?02:48
wokiand what files it deploys to the device to make the app run02:50
wokiso i can clean it up when i've finished developing02:50
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Sc0rpiusI thought it built a .deb package02:50
Sc0rpiusso you could easily uninstall it02:51
DocScrutinizerfind / -mmin 9002:52
DocScrutinizerfind / -mmin 90 -ls02:52
DocScrutinizeror 5 instead of 90, if you're 'fast' ;-)02:53
DocScrutinizermaybe even -cmin02:54
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wokidon't know what debian does. I use another distro02:55
Sc0rpiusheh :) .deb packages are what N900 use02:56
woki??? packaging error?02:56
wokiwhat the?...02:57
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wokianyone ever get this error?03:06
wokihttp://pastebin.com/yB84VQ6903:06
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* corecode nods03:13
corecodenow fmms will show animated gifs03:13
corecodeand zoom them03:13
corecodehow do you find which gettext strings exist for maemo?03:18
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blackthornehi04:58
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ebzzryIf I want my bluetooth keyboard to work with N900, what should I read?05:00
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tank-manebzzry, what is there to read? just sync it05:05
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ebzzrytank-man: it pairs easily?05:06
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tank-mani have a n800 and it was easy to do05:06
ebzzrytank-man: As easy as 1) Turn on BT on N900, 2) Pair with keyboard?05:06
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tank-maneasy as goto control panel and pick bluetooh and add device then use it05:07
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tank-manso easy to do, you wouldn't know you were using a linux system :)05:08
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ShadowJKi dont think that works on n900 anymore05:12
ShadowJKit did work on n800 though05:12
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ShadowJKor maybe that was just su-8w that didn't work anymore05:14
* ShadowJK shrugs05:14
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ebzzrytank-man: Are these applicable for the N900?05:15
tank-manif it was working in n800, why would nokia change the way it works and break it in n900?05:16
tank-mani used a apple bt keyboard05:16
ebzzrytank-man: You can't make that kind of generalization, I'm afraid.05:17
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tank-mandoes nokia have a history of breaking things ?05:19
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ebzzry(Not to be rude, tankman) But either you're trolling or you are ignorant, I'd assume the former.05:21
ShadowJKshort answer: pressed on time the device specs were removed of things deemed unnecessary like bluetooth file browsing (because apparently when n900 is both phone and tablet you dont have phone to browse anymore) and bt keyb (since you have builtin keyb) and bluetooth outgoing interwebs (since n900 has cellular internets builtin)05:22
ShadowJKand those untested things were disabled in the configuration files05:22
ShadowJKi think there are issues with keyboard layouts if you just enable the bt keyboard functionality, there's most likely a thread on t.m.o., I remember seeing one...05:26
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ShadowJKdon't remember the thread topic/name though05:26
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[q^_^p]hi for all i want some i can not connect my bt mouse to phone some help please05:46
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jonwilbah, its been almost a week since I dropped my N900 off at Nokia Care and its still not back (they claim they are waiting for a replacement and its not here yet :(  )07:44
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ShadowJKI think I'm on week 2 or 307:45
ShadowJKI forget07:45
jonwiland I thought Nokia was the best in the industry when it came to repairs and warranty07:46
ShadowJKlol :)07:46
jonwilMy previous Motorola phone was fixed fairly quickly in both times it was broken (once at the official Motorola warranty place)07:48
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jonwilI guess it depends on where the replacement phone is comming from as to how long it should take to get there08:35
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DocScrutinizerlow absolute number of N900 sold (compared to popular phones of Nokia) causes repair facilities being a sparse resource. Then the "complex" OS aka firmware is likely to cause a huge number of false positives, so they won't hand out replacements easily, and retail shows don't have competence to "fix" soft errors09:22
DocScrutinizerand mooo09:22
DocScrutinizers/shows/shops/.09:24
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johnxm00f09:24
DocScrutinizerGerman repair shops all have a "usually 2 weeks, sometimes longer" policy for N900 repairs09:25
DocScrutinizerthey all send in almost every N900 - i.e. if it's not fixable by any semi-talented tech user as well09:26
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DocScrutinizerthe special tools (fixtures, jigs, tools, spare parts) needed for N900 are simply too expensive for the half a dozen N900 they might see coming in for repair during a year09:28
DocScrutinizer(the bane of too many service centers :-P)09:30
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RobbieThe1stWhile I might agree with you, I have to say that if -I- can fix one with the tools I have lying around :\09:30
johnxRobbieThe1st, then you're worth more per year than a service tech earns09:31
DocScrutinizersure, but then you got "infinite" time resources and surely better knowledge about the device, than a nokia care center09:32
RobbieThe1stI suppose. Yea, 2 hours might be considered high.09:32
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DocScrutinizerwhen I asked about my power button they fscked up at Nokia repair facility, the shop told me they either *need* to send in again as it's been Nokia that broke it. OR they can repair "ambulant" but that will cost *me* ~40EUR09:34
johnxthe problem is invariably that after someone passes a certain skill level, their time is better spent doing something else than working in a repair center09:35
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DocScrutinizernow that's been about a very simple SMD switch that either got loose and needs 30s with the hot iron, or needs a complete replacement of switch (10min) or even a swap of whole PCB (send in to Nokia anyway)09:37
DocScrutinizerbut incl all the dis- and re-assembling and bureaucratic shit they are easily hitting the 1h mark09:39
DocScrutinizerand it's unclear how much Nokia is willing to pay them for an ambulant fix - probably nothing at all in this case09:40
RobbieThe1stWell, I guess that's why you keep a soldering iron yourself - makes things a -lot- faster when things break09:40
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DocScrutinizerthat's an option I keep for the time when the switch breaks completely :-)09:41
DocScrutinizerI'm too scared by the one device that ceased working after I disassembled it (and I'm for sure no less skilled than any arbitrary repair shop dude, so that's another problem they have to count in and deal with)09:43
johnxyeah, taking these things apart is always a roll of the dice09:44
DocScrutinizer"sorry dead customer, when we disassembled it, the self destruct got trigered. Too bad..." - usually won't fly09:44
DocScrutinizerdear* :-P09:44
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johnxdead is because that's how long it takes to come back with the news ...09:45
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DocScrutinizeryeah :-D09:45
johnxdearest next of kin: ...09:45
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DocScrutinizerno wonder, with *these* news I'd be reluctant as well :-P09:46
DocScrutinizerplan: wait til summer holiday. Instruct trainee to call customer during my offtime and tell him the device magically disappeared09:47
DocScrutinizerthen order a new N900 "for display", send to customer, and shredder the documents about the whole case09:49
* johnx has a 'display' n800 :)09:50
DocScrutinizerblame shop lifters09:50
johnxeh? No, I mean I bought the floor demo unit09:50
DocScrutinizerAnd I completed the repair shop employee's plan by point 309:51
johnxthe store was going out of business and I convinced them to give me the demo unit, just a bare N800 and charger09:51
johnxah09:51
johnxgot it09:51
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DocScrutinizerI'm actually wondering where to get vmware for maemo09:54
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNo6pn-dnSQ09:54
johnxWas there even a beta or anything? I thought it was just a vaporous demo09:55
DocScrutinizernot like I've really searched a single minute yet09:55
jonwilwell in my case they said first thing monday morning "device being looked at by Nokia technician" followed soon after by "waiting for replacement Nokia handset"09:56
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jonwilso its clear that they looked at it and then decided straight away that it was better to replace the phone than to attempt a repair09:56
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jonwilThe only question is where the replacement phone has to come from (e.g. eastern states, Asia, Europe) and how long its going to take to get here from there :(09:57
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johnxnext door, and 3 weeks09:58
jonwilGiven the likely small # of N900s in Perth, I doubt Nokia Care would have one locally09:59
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jonwilMy guess is that its either comming from some central warehouse in Sydney or Melbourne09:59
jonwilor its comming from somewhere in Asia where the phones get made and packaged09:59
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DocScrutinizerNokia most likely has one "service and repair facility" (probably 3 employees) for whole aussiland10:10
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DocScrutinizerdepending on holiday schedules, floods, and random nature of # of repair requests/week, this may get processed same day or the other month10:12
jonwilnope, they definatly have a local repair center10:13
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jonwilThey definatly have a "nokia care" facility in Perth10:13
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jonwilthat does actual repairs10:13
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DocScrutinizerwhat's "local"? like "on southern hemisphere"? then yes10:13
jonwilLocal as in ~1-1.5 hours away10:14
jonwilI saw it first hand when I dropped my phone off10:14
DocScrutinizerwell, that's not contradicting my assumptions it's the only one in Perth10:14
jonwiland it was clear that it was an actual repair center10:14
jonwiland yes its the only one in Perth10:14
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DocScrutinizerPerth is the only one, sorry10:15
jonwilnope, they have others in other states10:15
jonwilI have seen the Brisbane one from the outside10:15
DocScrutinizeramazing10:15
jonwilor was that the Melbourne one10:15
jonwilI forget10:15
DocScrutinizerso they have 3 centers with one employee rather than one with 3 of them?10:15
jonwilin any case given how fast they took to make the "replace rather than repair" decision, the number of repair people they have doesn't matter in this case10:16
jonwilThey had at least 3 employees sitting there front-of-house dealing with customers. Plus several technicians that I saw in the back room through the open door10:16
DocScrutinizerthat decision was a statement of the shop where you sent in the device. It only means "we can't do anything as it's more complicated than batery swap. We send it in"10:17
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DocScrutinizerjonwil: I guess you still know IMEI and ser# of your original device. Compare that to the 'swapped' 'new' one you get10:19
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jonwilMy bet is that because no local carrier sells the N900 and there are so few around, they probably dont have the spares on hand/know-how that they would have for a really popular handset like the N9510:19
DocScrutinizerjonwil: iirc your device had that FPC problem. They will swap the flexible board, at central nokia repair facility10:20
DocScrutinizerjonwil: exactly10:20
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DocScrutinizerneither know how, nor spare parts, nor tools10:21
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DocScrutinizerI got NFC as I never been in resales/CustomerCare business, but I guess all hw-manufacturers have a deal with their resellers about repair procedures, that goes like this: "repair it locally and get $xx from us, on sending in documentation about customer and fixed parts. Or send it in to our central repair facility"10:24
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DocScrutinizerhere $xx is rather low10:25
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jonwilThis isn't a reseller or 3rd party, this is clearly a genuine Nokia owned facility10:25
DocScrutinizerand a fixed amount, regardless of what's been defect10:25
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DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter, same procedure10:25
jonwilmaybe they do what I have heard of other manufacturers doing, i.e. provide a replacement handset and then take the broken one, fix it up and use it as a refurb for the next guy who needs a warranty replacement10:26
jonwilI heard of companies like Apple doing that10:26
jonwilmaybe Nokia does it10:26
DocScrutinizerjust level of trust is a little bit higher then, between Nokia global and shoppee local10:26
DocScrutinizerjonwil: (refurb) won't happen. Refurbishing to a level where they could ship it is more expensive than a new device10:27
jonwilApple does refurbs of iPhones10:27
DocScrutinizermanpower is extremely expensive, mass produced hw is cheap10:27
jonwilI know of several people who have received refurb iPhones10:28
DocScrutinizerwell, apple is special in many respects10:28
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DocScrutinizerN900 is on sale for ~300$ now. This means internal value inside Nokia at large is <<100$ for one device. Now guess what they need to calculate for one hour of bench or office time to refurbish a device, and how long that actually might take, to make sure you're not shipping devices that come back for repair later^H^H immediately10:31
jonwilhmmm, good point10:31
jonwilI still think they would have said "handset being repaired" if that's what was happening (regardless of whether it was happening locally or not)10:31
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DocScrutinizerjust check your ser+/IMEI later10:32
DocScrutinizerwe'll all be wiser than10:32
DocScrutinizerthen*10:32
jonwilyeah10:33
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DocScrutinizerfor my repair they weren't even able to tell me what's been done exactly @ Nokia central repair facility, they just knew "it got fixed"10:34
jonwilOh and btw, my phone cost me $541 total10:35
jonwilso it wasnt cheap10:35
jonwilThats AU$ btw10:35
jonwilanyhow I will compare the phone to the serial # on my proof of purchase10:35
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DocScrutinizerI don't think they take it serious to use the correct term about what Nokia will do, esp if they don't know beforehand10:36
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jonwilhmmm ok10:36
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DocScrutinizerin your case they probably will do a flexiboard swap (the thing that is cable as well as PCB holding front cam, LED, ALS, earpiece...)10:38
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.ownta.com/original-nokia-n900-cell-phone-slide-flex-cable-ribbon-with-camera.html  <--this one10:42
johnxgah. soooo much moves in a couple 'patch' releases of the linux kernel10:42
* johnx runs a make oldconfig on 2.6.37 using a .config from 2.6.2810:43
DocScrutinizerthe D shaped brown thingie at end of the dark flat cable is what's usually breaking10:43
DocScrutinizerC-shaped?10:44
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DocScrutinizerLOL @ http://www.ownta.com/brand-new-nokia-n900-unlocked-cell-phone.html  <-- is that a N810-WIMAX? Or why is this one black?10:57
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inzDoc, yes, it's a WiMAX10:58
johnxorange letters on the keyboard = wimax, IIRC10:58
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SpeedEvilThe wimax variant is AIUI rarer than n900s.10:59
RST38h"John Carmack knows how to invoke the *real* console, to enter cheats and set sv_gravity 0. But he isn't telling anyone, as he hates cheaters."10:59
RST38h"John Carmack once invented the lighting model for games that is better than real sunlight and produces good fps on a PentiumII. But he does not release this engine, becuase he loves God and hates showing His incompetence in the matters of lighting."11:01
toresbehehe11:01
RST38h"Most Carmack's games are based on real events that will occur in 2110."11:02
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jonwilmy god that flexboard thing is more expensive than I thought it would be11:25
SpeedEvilIt's not covered under warranty?11:25
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jonwilit should be11:26
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jonwilbut the price on that link from earlier suggests that its more expensive for the part than I thought it was11:26
SpeedEvilah11:27
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RobbieThe1stjonwil: Check ebay.11:41
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jonwilI dont need a replacement part, Nokia is fixing my phone under warranty11:42
RobbieThe1stjonwil: I got a LCD screen for <$50US. Took a while to arrive, but still11:42
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jonwilI am just surprised at how expensive N900 parts can be11:42
SpeedEvilIn volume, they're probably cheaper, but you're not buying 100k.11:43
RST38hjonwil: Expensive as compared to what?11:45
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DocScrutinizeras in compared to price of a whole device vs price of the sum of its parts. Same for every car and whatever11:58
DocScrutinizerLCD + touchpad + flexiboard > complete N900 with mainboard, case, charger and all11:59
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DocScrutinizernot exactly, but you get the picture12:00
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DocScrutinizeroriginal BL-5J: ~45$12:00
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DocScrutinizer(Nokia list)12:01
DocScrutinizerI've seen devices where a single spare part was more expensive than the whole device, new, street sale12:02
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DocScrutinizerbtw I thinks it's extremely poor design Nokia hasn't thought about replacing *just* the flexicable, I.E. make that detachable from the expensive flexiboard with all the components like front camera, LED, ALS, earpiece...12:10
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kerioand add *another* point of failure?12:11
DocScrutinizerhmm12:11
keriomaybe they thought it was fine like this, they weren't expecting it to break so often12:11
kerio(same for the usb :< )12:11
DocScrutinizeryeah, probably12:11
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MohammadAGthey should12:12
alteregode press ed12:12
SpeedEvilAnother point of failure, another assmebly operation, and another $.1 BOM12:13
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* MohammadAG depresses ed12:13
DocScrutinizerfor the USB wait a few weeks/months longer. I bought a bare main PCB, so I'll check out all the undocumented testpads and eventually will come up with a drop-in cradle solution for charging that won't stress USB receptacle by design12:13
MohammadAGalterego, then?12:13
alteregoMy ex wants me to go over to the flat and make cakes with her12:13
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alteregoDocScrutinizer: you bought a N900 main board?12:14
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I keep meaning to make a low-profile right-angle connector.12:14
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DocScrutinizeralterego: yup12:14
SpeedEvilhttp://www.ownta.com/compatible-nokia-n900-cell-phone-pcb-board-without-spareparts.html alterego12:14
alteregoDocScrutinizer: nice, how much did that set you back?12:15
xkr47alterego, uh.-oh12:15
DocScrutinizersee ^^^12:15
alteregoI think I'm more likely to get a spare screen over any other spare part :)12:15
alteregoCheers12:15
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DocScrutinizerfriggin useless part, except for me to check traces12:16
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alteregoOh, right12:16
alteregoIt's just the _board_ :D12:16
DocScrutinizerso please don't bother to buy one even for $10, unless you understand *exactly* what that is12:16
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alteregoStill yeah, that's quite useful, in conjunction with the schematicsa12:17
DocScrutinizeryep12:17
alteregoI don't really have much interest in modding the hardware tbh.12:17
DocScrutinizerI have12:17
MohammadAGyou're an engineer :P12:17
DocScrutinizeralso interested in augmenting the incredibly crippled schematics12:18
alteregoI see the N900 as a platform for me to get seriously into coding Qt apps for the next wave of devices.12:18
alteregoHeh, still I would like a digital compass12:18
MohammadAGinstall one12:18
alteregoI think that's the only mod that'd I'd be interested in for the N90012:18
SpeedEvilalterego: gyro too is useful12:19
DocScrutinizerthis project will help designing a hw-mod, so you get a nicely integrated one12:19
alteregoSo I can do some cool augmented reality stuff.12:19
alteregoYeah12:19
MohammadAGaren't there USB digital compasses12:19
alteregoMohammadAG: probably12:19
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Installed in the actual camera12:19
alteregoI would prefer a micro sd one tbh :)12:19
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, hmm?12:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there's probably no free USB to hook them up though (if you plan to integrate and solder)12:20
MohammadAGalterego, me too, but I doubt they're that small :P12:20
SpeedEvilalterego: I've looked into it, but I can't find a compass chip thin enough to put in the microSD.12:20
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I was thinking removable and portable12:20
alteregoSpeedEvil: oh, I thought I saw someone doing one.12:20
alteregoBut they hadn't "done" it yet.12:20
DocScrutinizerI'm thinking console tty12:20
alteregoAdmittedly it has very limited use (probably only useful in the N900) :D12:21
DocScrutinizeror even something we don't know of yet, like I2C12:21
alteregoYeah, that'd be nice.12:21
DocScrutinizerthere's quite a number of testpads behind battery, which are largely undocumented in schematics12:22
alteregoYeah12:22
alteregoI know there's usb and a tty there12:22
DocScrutinizermight even be possible to develop a solder free "plug" for that12:22
alteregoprobably jtag12:22
DocScrutinizeryup12:22
alteregoDocScrutinizer: it is, I plan on doing something along those lines.12:23
DocScrutinizerfine :-D12:23
alteregoI developed a similar cable for another handset.12:23
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* DocScrutinizer grabs t900, rips out batery and uses caliper rule to see what's headroom for the 'plug'12:24
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DocScrutinizer2.56mm :-D12:27
DocScrutinizerthat's GREAT12:27
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DocScrutinizerI think a acrylic block of that thickness, with holes drilled in, and tiny gold plated springs, might do12:31
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: read the wiki12:35
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: most of these testpads are documented now12:35
DocScrutinizerI'm more interested in VBUS for now, for attaching an alternative charging contact assembly12:35
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: as in half of them12:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, I'm wondering about the other half12:36
jacekowskiwell, i was messing with scope on them12:36
jacekowskiand nothing was there12:36
jacekowskibut hmm12:37
jacekowskii have an idea12:37
DocScrutinizermy next plan had been to use R-meter to check if ther's any VBUS pad. But then I bought that blank PCB today12:37
jacekowskihmm12:37
jacekowskino i don't12:37
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tybolltwheee12:39
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alteregoShould be able to trace the pads back to whaever chip they're connected to and find out what it is12:40
DocScrutinizer vbatt, mod omap, mod cmt serial access and cmt xti and ape xti - those are the signals available on testpads. Unconfirmed and don't ask where from I got this12:40
jacekowskimod omap?12:40
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: useful cheat I've used in the past. Get strip of copper foil. Now, probe one point with an ohmeter probe, and the other one connected to teh foil.12:40
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: now, you can rub the foil over the board, and find where it beeps _lots_ faster12:40
DocScrutinizeryep, thought same12:41
jacekowskiwhat is that "mod omap"12:41
DocScrutinizersorry, no further info available12:41
DocScrutinizerI guess it's modem, or UART12:42
DocScrutinizeror mood of day12:42
SpeedEvilmodem OMAP12:42
SpeedEvilthat is - the serial port of the modem debug12:42
SpeedEvilnot the 'application' port12:42
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DocScrutinizerwell, vbat probably just the batery contact, not actually a testpad12:44
DocScrutinizerit's basically what's written on one of those weird expensive fictures12:45
DocScrutinizermod omap is serial console12:45
jacekowskibtw. do you know that they have nothing inside12:45
DocScrutinizersure12:46
jacekowskiit's just like a plug/connector converter12:46
DocScrutinizeryup12:46
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DocScrutinizer  it has access to vbatt, mod omap, mod cmt serial access and cmt xti and ape xti -- with pins: left-to-right, top, 7 pins, 6 pins, bottom, 3 pins, 8 pins12:47
jacekowskidraw it12:47
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jacekowskiand btw. i never managed to get anything on cmt pads12:48
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jacekowskionly pads that were alive were omap serial12:48
DocScrutinizer XTI eXtended Tracing Interface12:48
DocScrutinizerdebug output of cmt usually needs some enabling command12:49
jacekowskiexternal12:49
DocScrutinizerat least calypso did12:49
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I'm just offering hearsay12:50
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DocScrutinizerand I heard: XTI eXtended Tracing Interface12:50
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lardmanmorning12:51
MohammadAGmorning lardman12:51
DocScrutinizerthis is SF-148T12:51
DocScrutinizernow you got it all, my secret wisdom :-P12:52
DocScrutinizerI don't think it's much of an NDA covered topic anyway, but hard to get that info bits12:53
DocScrutinizernext chapter will be genuine RE results of the bare PCB :-D12:55
DocScrutinizerdonations welcome ;-D12:55
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jacekowskiwell, that's good idea13:01
jacekowskibuy broken n90013:01
jacekowskidesolder it13:01
jacekowskior just blank pcb13:01
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: I ordered a blank PCB today ;-D13:05
DocScrutinizerdonations were meant in $$ or batteries, tools, pizza and beer shipped express13:06
DocScrutinizerthough I appreciated donations of broken N900 as well13:07
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DocScrutinizerJanuary donation balance for h-e-n: ~24EUR :-P13:09
DocScrutinizerthat almost compensates the one battery I killed13:10
MohammadAGremember to split it with Paul :)13:10
DocScrutinizersure13:11
DocScrutinizerI'll send half of the pizza to him :-D13:11
MohammadAGI want 1/0 of all donations13:11
MohammadAG:P13:12
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kerioMohammadAG: so you're going to give infinite money to the cause?13:12
DocScrutinizerwell, that's not hard: 1/0 * (virtually) 0 = 100% of nuttin13:12
kerioDocScrutinizer: nope13:14
kerio1/0 is nothing13:14
kerio0/0 is anything13:14
MohammadAGwhat is +9000/0?13:14
DocScrutinizerx (/0 (*0)) = anything of nothing13:15
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DocScrutinizerx / 0 = infinite. infinite * 0 = ?13:16
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DocScrutinizeror let's just transform:  (x * 0) / 013:17
DocScrutinizer= anything13:18
DocScrutinizerof nothing13:18
keriox/0 is not infinite13:18
keriox/0 is nothing13:18
lardmanit's infinite in MATLAB ;)13:18
keriolardman: then matlab sucks13:18
kerioit should raise an exception13:18
lardmanhmm13:18
DocScrutinizerlimes x/n with n->0 is infinite13:19
keriothe *limit* from the right is +∞13:19
kerioand the limit from the left is -∞13:19
keriothat's why 1/0 is undefined13:19
DocScrutinizerheh, good point13:19
kerioin ieee754 divisions, 1/(+0) == +∞ and 1/(-0) == -∞13:21
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you meant +0 or -0? X-P13:21
DocScrutinizerheh13:21
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lardmanthat works in MATLAB too13:22
keriobut that's because ieee754 floats/doubles don't qualify as a field :)13:22
* DocScrutinizer highfives kerio13:22
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kerio"x^(-1)" is defined on all elements except "0", the null element of the "+"13:23
keriowhere "x^(-1)", "0" and "+" are stuff13:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, + :P13:24
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DocScrutinizeryou're lucky then. Otherwise I'd send you an invoice about ∞, minus 15% discount for immediate payment13:25
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kerioif we're talking about transfinite reals, then ε⁻¹=∞ and13:26
kerio*and it's because they're defined as positive quantities13:27
* DocScrutinizer cackles13:27
keriobut you still can't divide by zero!1!113:27
* DocScrutinizer sucks at math terribly13:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: see? I toldya this donation button isn't really worth it. Too much overhead :-D13:29
kerio(and it's still not really "infinite", it's just bigger than other real numbers)13:29
DocScrutinizernot to mention spam mail from paypal13:29
DocScrutinizeraleph-what?13:30
kerio*real*, not natural13:30
kerioand cardinal numbers only measure the cardinality of sets13:30
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SpeedEvilAh - fun.13:34
SpeedEvilSearching google.13:34
SpeedEvilCardinal (Catholicism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaA cardinal  is a senior (although they are very spunky) ecclesiastical official,  usually a bishop, of the Catholic Church. They are collectively known as  the ...13:34
DocScrutinizerhmm, I don't really understand what's   &#1488;_013:34
SpeedEvilSomeones reverted it though.13:34
kerioDocScrutinizer: it's, by definition, the cardinality of natural numbers13:35
keriothe cardinality of a set is "how many natural numbers can i put this set in a bijective mapping with?"13:36
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DocScrutinizertoldya I suck at math13:36
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DocScrutinizeryou must adore it though13:37
kerioif your set can be put in a bijective mapping with all the natural numbers, its cardinality is aleph-null13:37
keriowhich i can't really write in unicode without a left-to-right forcer ._.13:37
kerioDocScrutinizer: are there more integer numbers or natural numbers?13:38
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DocScrutinizerhard to tell. I guess the simple answer "more natural" is not exactly correct as both aren't limited. Nevertheless natural is more unlimited as there's not en element in int for each element in natural13:40
keriohehe13:42
keriook, imagine this sequence13:42
kerio0 1 -1 2 -2 3 -3 4 -4 5 -513:42
kerioetc. etc.13:42
corecodecan you get a network/serial console to the n900 via the usb cable?13:42
DocScrutinizeryes, sure13:42
corecodeok, how?13:42
keriocorecode: usb networking13:43
DocScrutinizer~usb-networking13:43
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usb-networking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking13:43
kerioDocScrutinizer: going ahead with that sequence will give you all the ints, right?13:43
DocScrutinizeryep13:43
corecodebeauty13:43
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keriof(n) = int(n / 2) * (-1)**n13:44
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keriogive all the natural numbers to that function, and you'll get all the integers13:44
kerio:)13:44
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kerioyou can invert that13:44
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kerio(also make that int(n / 2 + 1) )13:45
ZogG_wanyone willing to help me with qt ui?13:45
DocScrutinizerZogG_w:13:46
DocScrutinizer~ask13:46
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.13:46
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ZogG_wDocScrutinizer: i did13:47
ZogG_w~nuke DocScrutinizer13:47
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at DocScrutinizer ... B☢☢M!13:47
corecode..13:48
kerioDocScrutinizer: A ∨ ¬A == ⊨, ∀ A13:48
alteregoI think he's asking for Qt coders to work on his UI DocScrutinizer13:48
ZogG_walterego: \o/13:48
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ZogG_wthose german people don't understand english =(13:48
DocScrutinizerduh, I thought he's asking for help right here and now13:48
ZogG_wall they know to try to conquer the world =)13:49
corecodefail there too13:49
ZogG_wDocScrutinizer i'm thinking to make some small app for maemo, but i wouldn't be able to make a thing in Qt, tried creator and i'm too stupid =(13:49
ZogG_wcorecode: that's why i said "to try"13:50
ZogG_wbut we do love DocScrutinizer =)13:50
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ZogG_wdo we guys? com'on, don't upset him =\13:50
kerioi hate him!13:50
LjLyeah don't upset me13:50
* ZogG_w gives LjL a good big joint 13:51
SpeedEvilPeople have made apps in python13:51
* LjL chills13:51
keriowoot! python!13:51
alteregoZogG_w: what's your app idea?13:51
RST38hWell. Moo.13:51
ZogG_wSpeedEvil: i want to try to do it in C, but i wouldn't be able to do the Ui13:51
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xkr47vala is nice :)13:51
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ZogG_wxkr47: brainfuck is nice lang too13:52
xkr47in a very different sense13:52
xkr47:)13:52
ZogG_walterego: at the start just remote control for xmms213:52
xkr47nice13:52
alteregoCan't you use lirc for that?13:52
ZogG_wlocal/over local network13:52
xkr47you run xmms2 on n900 or ?13:52
ZogG_wif i would be able than bluetooth and so on13:52
ZogG_wxkr47: no, but there is port to xmms2 by ruskie13:53
alteregoSurely someone has an xmms plugin for lirc13:53
ZogG_wand there is abraca for maemo, not sure n8*0 or n90013:53
ruskieiirc n8*013:53
ruskiexkr47, I run xmms2 on my n900 ;)13:53
xkr47nice13:53
ZogG_wi run ruskie on my n90013:54
ruskiethough only cmd line client and daemon13:54
ruskielol13:54
LjLi'm looking to buy an N810 (or N800, not yet 100% sure) as a present, would like feedback on how much of a terrible idea it is. unfortunately i don't know much about what the person wants, since i want it to be a surprise, but i chose the N810 because she said she fancied an ebook reader and also something like an ipod touch, and i thought the relatively big, transflective screen of the N810 could be a cheap compromise13:54
xkr47in soviet russia, n900 runs ruskie13:54
alteregoOr UPnP13:54
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lardmanLjL: Screen is too small for ebook reading imho13:54
ruskieof course the pkg is an older version... but still does the job..13:54
ZogG_wLjL: than u should buy wimax edition13:54
ruskieZogG_w, and I only packaged it... the porting was done long ago by others of what there was needed to do13:55
LjLlardman: i don't know, i use my phone as an ebook reader and it has a smaller screen... of course i guess it depends on the person a bit13:55
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ZogG_wruskie: you have opt and non-opt right?13:55
lardmanindeed, too small for me then :)13:55
* ruskie uses a 6" eink device for eboox reading...13:55
ZogG_wis your repo still up?13:55
LjLZogG_w: i don't think there's going to be any wimax anytime soon here ;) also, never seen those on ebay13:55
ruskieZogG_w, it's all opt now...13:55
ruskiesince m5 is so sensitive to partitions and crap13:55
LjLanyway what about software? are there good ePub-compatible readers for a start?13:55
LjLwish i could emulate Maemo13:55
SpeedEvilPersonally, I read lots of ebooks on my n90013:55
ruskieZogG_w, and yes it is...13:55
ZogG_wljl i saw someone selling on tmo i think13:55
lardmanWe might see some WiMax in the UK as part of this drive for internet access for all13:56
SpeedEvilLjL: fbreader is on n810 I think13:56
lardmanSpeedEvil: ouch, I can feel my eyes hurting already!13:56
SpeedEvillardman: Works for me.13:56
SpeedEvillardman: I have a kindle. I prefer the n900.13:56
lardmanI know, to each his own13:56
lardmanI have aTab, prefer the Tab13:56
LjLSpeedEvil: oh that's good, i like FBReader on my Android phone13:56
ruskiehanlin v3 running openinkpot ;)13:57
SpeedEvillardman: Simply as I can for example turn the brightness way down, and read in bed. Without needing to screw with the lights.13:57
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LjLwhat about web browsing? last i heard, people said the N810 is quite a bit slow, does that impact web browsing a lot?13:57
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lardmanKindle is e-ink?13:57
SpeedEvilNevrer used one.13:57
SpeedEvillardman: yes13:57
LjLSpeedEvil: yeah that's the main plus of normal screens in my opinion, backlight is lovely13:57
lardmanok13:57
lardmanhow much would an N810 be now? It's old tech13:58
SpeedEvilIt's lots more readable in sunlight of course.13:58
ZogG_wlardman: would you be here in several hours? i wanted to ask you something13:58
kerioDocScrutinizer: hold on, back to natural numbers13:58
ZogG_was i need to go in several mins13:58
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LjLlardman, it depends. i've seen it got for between €70 to €160, and i still cannot explain why13:58
lardmanZogG_w: will be at work all day, but you might have some lag if I have to head to the lab to do anything13:58
SpeedEvilEbay says 60-70 quid13:58
lardmanZogG_w: but ask away13:58
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lardmanok well that's cheap enough to accept the fact that it's old tecj13:59
lardmans/j/h13:59
ZogG_wlardman: ok, than i'll explaine later, just have a nice idea =)13:59
lardmancool13:59
LjLSpeedEvil: ebay.co.uk i guess you mean? i haven't seen it go for that low in a while now13:59
lardmanotherwise drop me a mail13:59
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ZogG_wlardman gmail?13:59
lardmanwork is easier - s dot g dot pickering at bath dot ac dot uk14:00
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* ruskie has been considering getting a few n810 or n800 to put in various places @home14:00
ruskiealways connected to power of course...14:00
ruskiefor stuff like recipie books and music playing14:00
lardmanmmm, home automation and monitoring :)14:01
* kerio feels that DocScrutinizer doesn't really care about natural numbers :(14:01
RobbieThe1stI'd be looking at a SheevaPlug for that14:01
LjLright, music playing - is it good for that?14:01
RobbieThe1stPossibly cheaper too.14:01
ruskieRobbieThe1st, needs to be user friendly ;)14:01
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RobbieThe1stmeh14:01
ruskielol14:01
ruskiefor actual use I'd get an always innovating touchbook v2 or maybe a smartbook14:02
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kerioLjL: music playing? wait for the dreamplug14:03
kerioit has analog and optical out14:03
LjLkerio: no i mean as a portable player14:03
keriohaha14:03
LjLwhether the software is decent14:03
RobbieThe1stCan't you install rockbox on it?14:04
lardmanRobbieThe1st: nice to have a display though to see data, music, etc14:04
RobbieThe1stOfficial software's just about the same as the n900 IIRC.14:04
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ruskiehmm dreamplug looks nice...14:04
RobbieThe1stlardman: I'd use my n900 for that - or something else14:04
LjLRobbieThe1st: not like i know what's available for the n900 either :P14:05
lardmanyeah I guess so14:05
ruskiebut yeah lack of a display is annoying... so would still need atleast one or two n810... as upnp controlers or something...14:05
RobbieThe1stInstant home automation system14:05
ruskieneed to see if gmediarender can build on arm...14:05
ruskiehell could even be usable as a router/firewall with dual ports...14:06
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DocScrutinizerLjL: N810 wired audio is just OK. The player is awkward, compared to whatever standards you might be used to. There's canola though, which I personally hate for being too windowsy a GUI, but it might meet your particular preferences better than the stock player14:14
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DocScrutinizer(home automation) thought about exactly that for quite some time now. N810 even makes for a nice door bellknob plate, with video and control of door lock (as long as you're not threatened by vandalism)14:17
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LjLthanks, i see also Canola is becoming open source now, that's good14:23
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lardmannow?14:23
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lardmanis it even used on anything anymore?14:23
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ShadikkaOh yay. "Unable to establish network connection. Contact support."14:24
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LjLlardman: oh wait whoops. the "news" is from 2008. so i guess it never happened ;(14:24
lardmanit might be open source now, I've no idea14:24
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LjLthere is one link to its supposed source code i have found, but it seems to be down14:25
LjLSource tree @ code.openbossa.org is unavailable (as of 27-Nov-2010)   from http://wiki.maemo.org/Canola14:26
Venemo_N900hi14:26
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xkr47hui14:27
xkr47hi14:27
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ShadikkaAny good suggestions on why my N900 asks for the PIN code, never accepts it nor locks the SIM card after three incorrect attempts and later on just says "Unable to establish network connection. Contact support." while booting.14:30
ShadikkaThe ironic part is that it just got fixed (USB connector broke)14:30
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Venemo_N900Shadikka: does the sim card work correctly in another phone?14:32
ShadikkaIt does. And another SIM card doesn't work in the N900 either.14:32
SpeedEvilI'd firs try flashing.14:32
Titogelodoes anyone know anything about meego and velneo?14:32
SpeedEvil~flashing14:32
ShadikkaI tried reinstalling the software with NSU, next up is probably manual flashing, yeah.14:32
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infoboti guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware14:33
alteregoTitogelo: you'd do better asking on #meego14:33
Venemo_N900Shadikka: try reflash, if it doesn't work return it to the repair rentre14:33
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Shadikkayeah, they're so gonna love me.14:34
Shadikka"Ohai, I'm back, you broke mah phone ;<"14:34
Venemo_N900alterego: what is the command to install something to the madde sysroot?14:34
alteregoVenemo_N900: mad-admin xdpkg -i14:35
Venemo_N900Shadikka: the correct phrase is "hey, repair your sh*t already"14:35
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Titogelook thanks14:35
Venemo_N900alterego: thanks. I tried with mad dpkg, but it didn't work14:35
ShadikkaHmm, is there something I could try to grep/search for in dmesg concerning the SIM?14:36
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Venemo_N900Shadikka: try asking DocScrutinizer51, he is an expert14:42
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ShadikkaI've noticed that. :) Quickly browsed through the dmesg and there seems to be nothing out of ordinary. i2c_omap controller timed out, but with some googling it seems to be normal.14:43
DocScrutinizerShadikka: grep cmt14:44
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Shadikka"[    6.738739] CMT speech driver v0.2.0" is the only thing found.14:45
DocScrutinizerlooks ok14:45
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Shadikkaoh well, guess I'll break for lunch and then try reflashing14:45
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ShadikkaThanks so far. :)14:46
wokiwhy do i get this? "Could not find mkspecs for your QMAKESPEC(linux-g++-maemo5)"?? i'm new to meamo14:46
DocScrutinizeryou could use pnatd to query for a few SIM related operations. Sorry can't quote the related AT cmds off top of my head14:46
DocScrutinizerAT+CFUN=? might be some14:47
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DocScrutinizeror AT+CFUN?14:49
DocScrutinizerat+cfun?14:49
DocScrutinizer+CFUN: 114:49
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DocScrutinizerShadikka: ask SpeedEvil14:55
SpeedEvilI'm AFK14:55
* lardman is an idiot14:57
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lardmanincremementing the wrong iterator in a for loop14:57
lardmandoh!14:57
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DocScrutinizerShadikka: 1) reflash  2) clean contacts of SIM and SIM holder  3) delete all SMS and contacts on SIM, using another phone (or SIM reader)  4) *carefully* bend the SIM holder contacts a little bit outwards/up, so they give higher pressure to the SIM's contact pads15:02
DocScrutinizerShadikka: (for cleaning contacts a rubber eraser with sand (the blue end :-D) is quite useful)15:03
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LjL-AndChatWhat about games on the N810? I understand there is no graphical acceleration (at all?), but still are there some little arcade games or at least good "non-graphical" games, puzzles and the like?15:06
achipadepends on your numerical interpretation of the word "some"15:07
DocScrutinizernumptyphysics FTW15:07
Venemo_N900LjL-AndChat: yes, there are some15:08
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chem|stdevice recieved, not even an totaly iced city held me back from it...15:09
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Venemo_N900LjL-AndChat: you may get me to compile my Puzzle Master game for the N81015:10
lardmanhmm, impressive, even without moving to CUDA C code is 75/4.13 times faster than MATLAB15:10
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: \o/15:10
Venemo_N900congrats chem|st15:10
chem|styeah, took them a full month...15:10
Venemo_N900lardman: yeah, matlab is slow15:10
Venemo_N900chem|st: what was the problem?15:10
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: you bought some weat ber and coke while you out? :-D15:11
lardmanVenemo_N900: never used to be quite that slow afaicr15:11
Venemo_N900mhm15:11
DocScrutinizer51chem|st: you bought some weat beer and coke while you were out? :-D15:12
chem|stDocScrutinizer51: never and -I keep my friend on distance as he was ordering some bananas-wheat-beer...15:12
DocScrutinizer51eeeeeek15:13
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DocScrutinizer51chem|st: what's been the bill?15:14
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DocScrutinizer51waranty?15:14
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Venemo_N900hm.15:16
* Venemo_N900 has just received his first ever donation for FOSS15:16
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SpeedEvilVenemo_N900: Congratulations!15:20
Venemo_N900thanks SpeedEvil15:21
SpeedEvil(it wasn't me)15:21
SpeedEvilUnless you're really, really not the person I thought you were, and your definition of OSS software is really, really strange.15:21
kerio?15:22
DocScrutinizerlol15:23
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Venemo_N900SpeedEvil: ummm15:23
Venemo_N900lol15:23
DocScrutinizerI guess SpeedEvil meant as long as you're not the guy in tesco supermarket that sold him those soft bananas...15:23
Venemo_N900hehehe15:24
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Venemo_N900no, that wasn't me15:24
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Venemo_N900seems that Nicolai pushed the "Donate" button in Sticky Notes. shame he isn't on irc, otherwise I'd thank him15:25
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: insurance payed 220eur15:34
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chem|stDocScrutinizer51: guess I am out of warranty now...15:35
chem|stso who wants to pay 150eur for a used-beered device?15:35
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ShadikkaI first read that as "user-beered".15:36
chem|stafaik fully functional, the testing shop said the battery is malfunctioning but ok that is a consumable anyways15:36
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maybeHerehuh15:37
maybeHerehttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/visualized-nokia-randd-spending-almost-3-times-its-peers/15:37
DocScrutinizerchem|st: disassemble, and sell case, LCD, touchpannel etc separately15:37
chem|stDocScrutinizer: the idea was to sell the new one's display as "new-bulk" as the current is just fine15:39
DocScrutinizerShadikka: you seen backscroll? I posted some suggestions for you15:39
chem|stthat alone should give me 160eur15:39
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DocScrutinizerI'd not even dare to disassemble the new one. better sell the old one in parts15:40
Venemo_N900chem|st: so you have 2 of 'em now?15:40
Venemo_N900chem|st: lucky you15:41
chem|stDocScrutinizer: another idea would be to buy an n8 cam and test if it is working with the used one and sell the upgrade15:41
chem|stVenemo_N900: no I got one beered and no new yet15:41
DocScrutinizerwon't fly15:41
chem|stI was || this close to just order a new one15:41
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DocScrutinizererr, so what's it you got to sell now?15:42
ShadikkaDocScrutinizer: Yeah, thank you :)15:42
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Shadikkajust downloading the fw image15:42
chem|stDocScrutinizer: the used15:42
chem|stshipping time is 24h for a new one afair15:42
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DocScrutinizermhm15:42
Venemo_N900chem|st: so if the old works, why buy a new one?15:43
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DocScrutinizerso the beered one got repaired and now you're considering to get a new one when you manage to sell the old one?15:43
chem|sthanging "E" and selling it while it is still working makes more sense to me15:43
chem|stDocScrutinizer: no repairs but yes15:44
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DocScrutinizerthe "E" is hanging?15:44
DocScrutinizeroh well15:44
chem|statm I am a bit short so no 160eur15:44
Venemo_N900what is "E"?15:44
DocScrutinizera key?15:44
chem|stnot exactly hanging it is more like no haptics left, I cannot tell from the keyboard wether I pressed or not15:45
DocScrutinizer:nod:15:45
chem|stso sometimes I press twice15:45
DocScrutinizersell the whole device for 160EUR15:45
chem|stbut that is a 30eur fix15:45
SpeedEvilremove, and try cleaning the vibraror15:45
chem|stnew domesheet...15:45
SpeedEvilor the contacts15:45
SpeedEviloh15:45
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SpeedEvilOr remove, wash, replace15:46
chem|stSpeedEvil: the device is fully functional15:46
SpeedEvildunno how that'd work15:46
SpeedEvilit's likely to die further15:46
SpeedEvilif you have not removed the beer15:46
DocScrutinizerhe did afaik15:46
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chem|styes15:46
DocScrutinizersell15:46
chem|stit does not smell anymore and I cleaned the buttons to work again15:47
DocScrutinizer160 seems just fair15:47
chem|stDocScrutinizer: 4 me too15:47
chem|stso I will ask my sister if she wants it for 155...15:47
chem|stif not I will think of keeping or rebuy15:47
chem|st-ing15:47
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DocScrutinizerwell, it's a perfect developer device still15:48
chem|stsure it is15:48
DocScrutinizerI hardly ever touch the kbd of t90015:48
DocScrutinizerjust ssh15:48
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer51: except when you IRC from the device?15:49
DocScrutinizerso yeah, if I had no t900 for that, and had 160, I'd consider...15:49
RST38hhttp://www.engadget.com/2011/02/03/visualized-nokia-randd-spending-almost-3-times-its-peers/15:49
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: that's IroN90015:49
RST38h*Where* does it all go???15:49
chem|stVenemo_N900: even then it is ssh to the device... irssi is your friend...15:49
DocScrutinizert900 never joins IRC15:50
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: wut? I thought DocScrutinizer51 was from the n90015:50
DocScrutinizerit's from IroN900, yes15:50
DocScrutinizerfrom my daily phone15:50
Venemo_N900oh15:51
Venemo_N900so you have 2 n900s?15:51
DocScrutinizert900 though si sittng here, with ssh open15:51
DocScrutinizeryep15:51
Venemo_N900one for dev and one for daily use? nice15:51
sandst1RST38h: it goes to a lot of places. Nokia has around 20% of the patents in H.26415:51
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: why do you call the other one t900?15:52
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: frequently messing around with hostmode kernels and bme, and running days long of endurance tests makes that a requirement15:52
chem|stVenemo_N900: it kind of freaked me out to devel on my daily device... but well I got only one15:52
sandst1and that's a result of the R%D15:52
chem|stand "hello" bootloop15:52
Venemo_N900chem|st: yeah I develop on my daily one too (got only one)15:52
RST38hsandst: who has the remaining 80% and what is he spending? =)15:52
Venemo_N900chem|st: although I don't do such serious stuff as DocScrutinizer15:53
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I was looking for a short name with 900 in it. Maybe I've seen terminator the evening before15:53
chem|stVenemo_N900: kernel patch and BOOOHOOO15:53
Venemo_N900hehe15:53
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chem|stmine is battlestar cassiopeia to fit in my usual namesystem15:54
Venemo_N900mhm15:55
DocScrutinizerfollowing this convention they should be called voyager and huygens15:56
chem|stgalaxies... and the mobile devices fit the colonial nameconvention for battlestars as skypictures15:56
sandst1RST38h: no idea, just an example of what they do with the R&D money. that's another question that where does it ALL go :)15:56
DocScrutinizerlaptop os halley15:57
DocScrutinizeris*15:57
chem|standromeda15:57
DocScrutinizerthat box died 2 years ago :-P15:57
chem|st;)15:57
chem|stthe stationary devices are ships in terms of boats15:58
chem|sttortuga is the router, maryjane is the former server and gwendoline is my desktop15:58
DocScrutinizerlagrange (actually should be lagrange-1) for colocated box15:59
chem|sthehe15:59
chem|stit is always fun15:59
chem|stfriend of mine has fit in his home nameconvention to the company by purpose as the conventions met at one point (cannot remember if it was startrek to galaxies or something)16:01
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Venemo_N900sandst1: I think the entire Maemo development went from the R&D budget16:04
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sandst1Venemo_N900: yeah, quite possible. in that case it's R&D money well spent :)16:05
Venemo_N900sandst1: I don't know this for a fact, but IMO it's likely the case, considering that these devices were never meant for the mainstream16:06
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sandst1Venemo_N900: yeah16:09
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cehtehDocScrutinizer: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Hardware-Upgrade-fuer-Openmoko-Smartphones-geplant-1182783.html .. guess you already know? :)16:24
DocScrutinizercehteh: sure Iknow about gta04 - I guess that'S what it is about - but I've not noticed heise news about it yet16:25
Venemo_N900cehteh: sounds nice16:25
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LjLis there anywhere i can see an acceptably comprehensive list of maemo 2008 games without going through the whole repository and seeing what's a game?16:25
cehtehi wonder how much ram and cpu freq that has16:26
Venemo_N900cehteh, DocScrutinizer: how does such a device look from the exterior?16:26
Venemo_N900LjL: just see the user/games section in the repo16:26
cehtehVenemo_N900: thats only a new mainboard you need the old neo gta02 as device16:26
Venemo_N900LjL: also I liked the preinstalled tetris app16:26
LjLVenemo_N900: erm how do i browse by section (i don't have a N810 yet, right now i'm looking at http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php)16:27
DocScrutinizerwell, I think it's abit weird. Recycle speakers, case, LCD, antenna, battery of GTA02 - exactly the parts that are impossible to get on free market and actually I think are really really sub-par, regarding design etc16:27
Venemo_N900LjL: I don't know, sorry16:28
Venemo_N900LjL: why're you getting N810?16:28
Venemo_N900LjL: you're better off with an N90016:29
Venemo_N900LjL: or if you want just a tablet, there are those from Archos16:29
LjLVenemo_N900: as a relatively cheap birthday present for my sister (and to tinker with a little before her birthday comes :P) - she expressed interest for ebooks on the one hand and things like ipod touch's on the other, so i thought an N810 might be a sorta reasonable choice. N900 is expensive...16:30
DocScrutinizerIf Nikolaus of Goldeico had asked me, I had suggested to use case, LCD, antenna, and battery, of an arbitrary Nokia phone, as you can get those as spare parts easily in ~30 shops of every mid sized town16:30
Venemo_N900LjL: what about an Archos 5 or Archos 43?16:30
DocScrutinizerwhile for the GTA04 you need to kill 200+EUR worth of hardware to recycle the 50EUR screen and the 5EUR case and shit16:30
LjLoh, there is a games list at http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/games/16:31
DocScrutinizerjust to get another shower radio appeal phone16:31
LjLVenemo_N900: well i haven't looked at those with very much attention, but last time i looked on ebay (yeah of course i'm buying the N810 used) i think they were quite expensive, as they are still quite new i think16:31
Venemo_N900LjL: you can get a used archos 5 for ~150€, and it's better than the N810.16:32
AD-N770I vote N810, I'm still using it to read ebooks16:32
Venemo_N900LjL: I'm not familiar with N810 prices. if they're that low, then go for it16:32
Venemo_N900N810 is a fun device :)16:33
LjLVenemo_N900: well, N810 prices are weird. the ones available in my country go from €70 to €160 (and i have no idea why that much difference), while i saw the ones for UK market are as low as £50. but then again i can't buy those, so.16:33
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LjLVenemo_N900: now i was trying to get one for about €10016:33
Venemo_N900LjL: which country?16:34
LjLitaly16:34
LjLmind, i don't mean i'm only buying ones sold from italy16:34
LjLi'm perfectly willing to buy from abroad, but the cheap ones aren't shipping abroad :P16:35
Venemo_N900LjL: usually you can ask the seller to ship to you.16:35
LjLthat's a good point, i should try asking some of them. so far, i had only looked at ebay.it, without really considering other countries' sites - didn't realize they could be this much cheaper16:37
Venemo_N900LjL: I usually look at ebay.de when looking for such stuff - a lot cheaper than prices in my country (Hungary)16:37
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Venemo_N900LjL: anyway, if I was looking for a tablet right now, I'd go for either a new archos 43 for €200 or a used archos 5 for €100-150.16:39
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Venemo_N900LjL: of course, an N810 below €100 could also be a good deal16:40
LjLi'm looking them up a little now (and the prices on ebay do seem reasonably low, although which one is the "Archos 5"? Wikipedia says it could be two things http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archos_5 )16:40
LjLi do have to look them up quickly as the N810 auction i'm trying to get now is ending in 30 minutes or so :\ (although i'll probably lose it)16:41
Venemo_N900LjL: I referred to the "archos 5 internet tablet" (the newer)16:41
Venemo_N900LjL: http://shop.ebay.de/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A12%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1%257C72%253A4669&rt=nc&_nkw=nokia+N810&_dmpt=Handy_Zubeh%C3%B6r&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_sop=3&_sc=116:42
Venemo_N900LjL: http://www.archos.com/products/ta/archos_5it/index.html?country=hu&lang=en16:44
Venemo_N900LjL: don't confuse this with the older "internet media tablet", that one is crap16:44
LjLVenemo_N900: the archos seems a bit big, but perhaps it's just an impression, the specs are quite impressive16:44
Venemo_N900LjL: it's 5"16:45
LjLVenemo_N900: this completed listing for instance seems pretty cheap... http://cgi.ebay.it/ARCHOS-5-Internet-Table-16-Gb-/290525844886?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_23&hash=item43a4b09596#ht_2639wt_114116:47
LjLdamn now i don't know what to do :P16:48
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Venemo_N900LjL: if you can get an N810 below €100 and you don't mind it being unsupported, then go for it16:48
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Venemo_N900LjL: if you want higher spec hw, then go for archos 516:49
Venemo_N900LjL: also important difference that N810 has a hw keyboard16:49
LjLi do have this fear the N810 hardware is going to be too slow for things like web browsing16:49
LjLtrue16:49
LjLbut then Android has a number of software input methods available16:50
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LjLand with a 5" screen they shouldn't be too annoying to use16:50
Venemo_N900LjL: yeah, and smoku ported MeeGo to archos 5 too :)16:50
LjLVenemo_N900: to go very offtopic for this channel - how rootable is the archos?16:50
DocScrutinizera new N810 for <100€ *is* a good deal16:50
Venemo_N900LjL: well ask someone who actually has one. I heard it's good16:51
Venemo_N900LjL: it can run angstrom and meego too besides android16:52
LjLwell i'd probably prefer to keep Android on it, but you have a point in that if you can flash other OS's, then obviously you should be able to root its Android too..16:53
DocScrutinizerlilfor an occasional web browsing N810 is just fine. Even music from youtube works fine16:53
DocScrutinizerLjL: ^^^16:54
DocScrutinizerthe browser of diablo is a bit clumsy to operate, comparing it to microb of fremantle, but it's absolutely usable16:55
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LjLis fennec available btw? i guess not16:57
Venemo_N900LjL: it is.16:57
DocScrutinizer(clumsy like in no kinetic scrolling, no touch zoom just VOL+/-, sometimes on zoom 120% you get rendering errors at screen borders so you have to scroll up and down to repaint page)16:58
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DocScrutinizerstill I used it a lot to play youtube music and local mp3 to my home stereo16:59
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DocScrutinizeror as an absolutely smart little quite good sounding internet radio17:00
sandst1They're gone. http://twitter.com/ipv4countdown17:00
DocScrutinizermeh17:01
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DocScrutinizerwe decided to recycle those of Egypt :-P17:01
Venemo_N900lol DocScrutinizer :P17:02
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: the problem with N810's microb is that it doesn't support new web standards well.17:02
DocScrutinizersisn't that the problem of all browsers - and of course of the new webstandards first of all?17:03
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DocScrutinizertbh it's the problem of those friggin gashead "web programmers"17:04
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: hehe17:04
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: it had some problems with jquery too.17:04
DocScrutinizerlike "WTF?! why does this page need FLASH for the idiotic menu??"17:04
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I'm talking about css3 and jquery here, not flash17:05
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: N810 microb had problems with css3 last time I checked :(17:05
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DocScrutinizertbh I've not noticed visiting any page using the first, and actually never heard of the second17:06
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DocScrutinizerwhy exactly would I want and/or need those?17:07
DocScrutinizerplease don't tell me "to visit homepage of fartapp"17:07
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: well css3 fixes some idiotic limitations of css's previous versions17:09
DocScrutinizermy mantra still is like "if you can't use the site with lynx, then it's not worth visiting it"17:09
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: :)17:10
DocScrutinizerso go ahead web-""programmers", use flash and javascript and html5 and whatnot, as long as the site stays usable by lynx I have no objections. If not - FSCKOFF learn yer job!!17:11
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: :)17:12
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I do some occasional web dev for acquitances17:13
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: it's hard to keep a site looking good in all browsers17:14
LjLVenemo_N900, DocScrutinizer: i bought the N810 for €87, seems goodish...17:14
Venemo_N900LjL: that's good price for it17:15
DocScrutinizerI give a shit about looking good. I prefer it being AVAILABLE to *all* users, rather than _looking good_ to some of them17:15
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DocScrutinizerLjL: \o/17:15
LjLVenemo_N900: consider also it comes with some nice accessories. http://cgi.ebay.it/Nokia-N810-Internet-Tablet-computer-/18061788145017:15
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: yes, that is why I prefer to use "graceful degradation" where possible17:15
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I personally agree with you, but you'd be surprised how many users care about eyecandy.17:16
Venemo_N900LjL: if you want, I can port puzzle master to the N810 :P17:17
DocScrutinizerI *know*, and I also know how tedious it may be to teach them17:17
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DocScrutinizerbtw this problem absolutely isn't lmited to webpage design17:18
LjLVenemo_N900: it does sound like a game my sister could like :)17:18
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Venemo_N900yeah DocScrutinizer17:18
DocScrutinizeryou face it with every second app that thinks it's ok as long as the 3GHz machine does run goodish when only no other process is running concurrently17:18
DocScrutinizer..and of course make that 9 out of ten, for games17:20
Venemo_N900LjL: it's a jigsaw puzzle which you can play with your own pics too :)17:20
LjLVenemo_N900: yep i googled it earlier17:20
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DocScrutinizeryeah it's lovely17:20
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: yeah. there are some that care about older hw though. and some that care about working on Linux too (even if under wine)17:21
DocScrutinizersimple, lean, nice, fast, and still fun17:21
Venemo_N900nah, my battery is low so I'll quit now. have a nice day guys :)17:22
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I think I gave you thumb-up for testing?17:22
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: it isn't in testing yet :(17:22
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: cya17:22
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: but I'll tell you when it gets there :)17:22
Venemo_N900bb17:22
DocScrutinizer:-)17:22
DocScrutinizero/17:22
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JartzaThe number of allocatable IPv4s just dropped to zero. \o/17:23
DocScrutinizeryeah, see backscroll17:23
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Jartzatoo much noise in bs17:24
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DocScrutinizerI grabbed a million from Egypt, for my daily requirements17:24
MrBawbI hope everyone has IPv6 plans :)17:24
DocScrutinizerseems they don't need it anymore17:24
DocScrutinizermeh, I got a fixed IPv417:25
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DocScrutinizerand my provider seems has a pool of some million, so they won't run short in near future17:25
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DocScrutinizerI just wonder how to update the router-modem FW to work with IPv6 evetually17:27
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* DocScrutinizer pokes ZyXEL17:27
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denohi there17:27
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alteregoHrm, angle meter doesn't seem to work for me.17:29
DocScrutinizerreboot17:30
DocScrutinizerlis302 seems to lockup17:30
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alteregoYeah, not the first time this has happened.17:31
DocScrutinizeror what is anglemeter?17:31
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DocScrutinizeryou might try stop mce, modprobe -r lis302dl, start mce17:32
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DocScrutinizeryou even might try stop mce, modprobe -r lis302dl, <send I2Cset reset cmd to lis302>; start mce17:32
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DocScrutinizerbe careful with i2cset and lis302, some registers are marked "reserved, do not write, may cause hardware failure"17:34
DocScrutinizerOWTTE17:34
SpeedEvilThen there are the awesome registers that only nokia knows about off the end of the published register map.17:35
kerioAND YOU CAN'T DISTINGUISH THE TWO... MWAHAHAHAHA17:38
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ZogGlardman, ping17:40
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lardman|homeZogG: pong17:55
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ZogG_laptoplardman|home, hey =)17:55
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lardman|homehi17:56
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DocScrutinizernah, that's been bq24150. Or have they same secret registers in mce and for lis302 as wel now?18:00
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SpeedEviloops18:03
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makulkarI'm getting issues while pushing changes to origin18:08
makulkar I cloned from https:// link and push throws up error "Cannot find URL.. return code 22 error"18:08
makulkar I tried to change in .git/config of my repo, URL from https to git@.... after that any git clone/push throws up error "Permission Denied (publickey)"18:08
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ZogG_laptopthp, ping18:25
thpZogG_laptop: pong18:26
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ZogG_laptopthp can i PM you18:38
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b-mani think i'm starting to push the integrity of this ipod's A4 - compiling llvm while browsing iFile while installing python xD18:44
esaym153anyone know how to increase the internal mic volume on the n810?18:45
b-manffs wron channel :P18:45
b-man*wrong18:45
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SpeedEvilb-man: Only if you're not compiling maemo.18:46
thpZogG_laptop: yep18:46
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b-manSpeedEvil: that would be evil xD18:47
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b-manMohammadAG said he'd kill me if i put meego on this thing :)18:49
VladNistortalking about meego, has anyone been able to tripple-boot maemo-meego-nitdroid?18:50
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ZogG_laptopVladNistor, sounds like threesome18:57
ZogG_laptop~ping18:57
infobot~pong18:57
VladNistori like threesomes :P18:57
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ZogG_laptopVladNistor, 2 dudes and you? =)18:57
VladNistorZoG_laptop, ahahhahah18:57
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SpeedEvilmaemo-meego-nitdroid-shr18:58
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ZogG_laptopSpeedEvil, it's cold orgy man =)18:58
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SpeedEvilUmm. Did mer ever get close to booting?19:00
b-manhmm19:00
* SpeedEvil forgets.19:00
VladNistorSpeedEvil, ist there a particular order you need to go at this?19:00
VladNistorand is it really so that meego dual-booting only works with stock kernel?19:01
b-manis the NITDroid project still insistent to sticking with multiboot? :P19:01
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N900addiktSo what will elop say on feb 11....any scoop here?19:08
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SpeedEvilfeb 11?19:08
N900addiktWhens his speech?19:09
SpeedEvilI'm taking the bin out to the end of the road so it can be picked up.19:09
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N900addiktCmon theres some nokia insider dudes here speak man i am listening whats elop got for us?19:10
andre__ask elop.19:11
N900addiktNobody know what he gonna do?19:12
andre__no.19:13
ShadowJKSo, if there were anyone here with inside information, you'd assume they got to where they are by being smart. Yet you think they'd be stupid enough to leak classified information in a public channel?19:13
andre__sure, we all love to get fired!19:14
ShadowJK:)19:14
N900addiktim not sayin that but maybe just a hint or some speculation no?19:14
andre__N900addikt, for speculations there's enough on the interwebs. go there.19:14
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SpeedEvilSometimes, you can tell as much by what is not said, as what is.19:14
ShadowJKthe stock markets yesterday sure did anticipate something cool19:15
SpeedEvilandre__: Do you deny that Nokia is in fact buying licences to Ios, so they can install it on all their phones?19:15
N900addiktCmon share some shit man why all this secrets19:15
ShadowJKrofl19:15
lardman|homeah bollocks, this new N9 is crap, bloody Atom kills the battery in no time flat19:16
N900addiktMaemo is dead and symbian same old stale shit i want some exciting fones whats wrong with that?19:16
lardman|homeoops, wrong channel19:16
andre__SpeedEvil: now if I had the slightest idea what Ios is I could at least come up with something :-P19:16
ShadowJKandre__, iphone os :P19:16
andre__heh. I thought of Greek goddesses19:17
lcuklol lardman|home19:17
SpeedEvilN900addikt: #meego is where all the cool people of the future hang out.19:17
lardman|home:)19:17
andre__I really hate how the nuclear processor of my N3000 prototype sometimes glows at night so I cannot sleep.19:17
N900addiktBut mego aint ready yet19:17
ShadowJKSpeedEvil, N900addikt/MeegoBoy has been kicked out of there already I think :P19:17
N900addiktNo me19:18
andre__N900addikt: if you want exciting phones, found a company and build them.19:18
N900addiktI never been kicked here never man19:18
SpeedEvilA phone unfortunately costs a large slice of a million or several to develop - just the hardware side.19:19
N900addiktBut nokia has resources no? Why they have nothing in the top end market?19:19
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andre__N900addikt: have you asked Elop? He could tell you maybe19:20
SpeedEvilThere is one very simple, and rather prosaic way to work out what happens on Feb 11.19:20
SpeedEvilI recommend it to you.19:20
N900addiktWhic is what?19:21
SpeedEvilWait a week.19:21
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slonopotamuswtf is http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/pool/diablo/free/source/k/kernel-diablo/ ?19:23
andre__a kernel?19:23
slonopotamus... 16kb?19:24
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N900addiktI aint good at waitin for stuff you know what im sayin?19:25
lardman|homepractise makes perfect19:26
N900addiktLol...you boys cranky today19:26
SpeedEvilN900addikt: I suggest ketamine then.19:26
andre__N900addikt: there's another easy workaround for that: Buy a timemachine, or a crystal ball.19:26
lardman|homeN900addikt: nobody kniows, that's the issue19:27
lardman|homeand I can't type19:27
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* lardman|home has to vpn to work, bbl19:29
N900addiktOk i understand19:29
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N900addiktI have another question how do i start writing cool apps and stuff on maemo or mego or is maemo dead now?19:29
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JartzaN900addikt: learn qt19:30
andre__N900addikt: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/  or  http://meego.com/developers19:30
slonopotamus~curse binary packaging19:31
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, binary packaging !19:31
N900addiktThat link is a lotta stuff where do i go first? Any quick solutions? If i write in maemo will my app work in mego in case new fones come out?19:32
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N900addiktHow i learn meamo?19:33
andre__N900addikt, if you don't want to read anything you will not learn anything.19:33
andre__problem solved? :)19:33
N900addiktI wanna read but i thought maemo was easier than the rest of em no?19:34
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N900addiktSkype is bad on n900 no? Small screen grainy video sucks man19:36
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lcukN900addikt, what other handhelds do you run Skype on currently?19:37
N900addiktCan i f**k around with skype app to make video larger...is this app open source19:37
slonopotamusmaemo is dead, forget about it.19:37
N900addiktLcuk: i have n900 and E90 commi19:38
N900addiktI kno19:38
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N900addiktI bought n900 coz i thought fone had promise but nokia forgot about it and no new apps anyways suck man19:39
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JartzaN900addikt: the quick solution: learn Qt19:43
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lcukN900addikt, a correctly written app should work happily on maemo and meego and depending on apis used also symbian :)19:44
ShadowJKit's not like nokia ever wrote many apps to begin with...19:46
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RST38hIn reality, it will probably only work with #ifdefs...19:48
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ShadowJKthp wrote a blog article on it iirc :P19:48
lcukRST38h, use qt to write it for your platform, #ifdefless then accept patches down the line :)19:48
RST38hShadowJK: Yes, I saw it19:48
RST38hShadowJK: Looks like Avkon is still alive and well, qt or not qt.19:49
RST38hlcuk <-- a dreamer19:49
thpRST38h: ShadowJK: it should get better with QML and Qt Quick Components, hopefully19:49
lcukRST38h, always :)19:49
thpat least in qt creator 2.1 the screen rotation code (still ugly avkon stuff) is at least auto-generated19:49
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RST38hAuto-generation is PITA19:50
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lcukso RST38h - how do you do crossplatform code without ifdefs19:51
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slonopotamusRST38h: lex/yacc users think you're crazy19:51
ShadowJKlcuk, he was describing lazy approach :P19:52
RST38hslono: are there any lex/yacc users left?19:52
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RST38hlcuk: I completely abstract the platform, then program using the abstraction layer19:53
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RST38hlcuk: +POSIX.19:53
* DocScrutinizer51 throws a +q behind him, like a wedding flowers19:53
slonopotamusRST38h: sure. that's the only sane way to do parsing of anything more complex than CSV19:54
DocScrutinizer51vme instructs chanserv to +o random users, to make this chan more funny19:54
ZogG_laptopwhen i build in qt creator where do i change build parametrs to add other libs config pkg?19:55
RST38hslono: except that lex/yacc is totally unsuitable for anything that does not read data straight from stdin19:55
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slonopotamusRST38h: lies19:56
* DocScrutinizer51 throws another 20 crystal balls and 5 tons of tealeaves to random directions19:56
ZogG_laptopi'll just ban myself19:56
ZogG_laptopu can't do it19:56
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DocScrutinizer51mow for the c+p of a schwitters poem...19:57
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slonopotamusRST38h: after all, any compiler is an auto-generator :)19:58
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DocScrutinizer51gimme that magic pill to become super warthog and write even bewtter poems myself in 23s19:58
DocScrutinizer51damn, fingers frozen19:59
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DocScrutinizeryo dawg, no new aps sucks! tellya it sucks so bad20:02
DocScrutinizerOMG20:03
ZogG_laptopok i'll repeat, how do i add any parametrs to gcc in qt creator to build an app?20:05
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ZogG_laptop<DocScrutinizer> what is your nick on 4chan?20:05
ZogG_laptopDoc51-kun?20:05
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* javispedro shudders at the mention of 4chan20:06
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DocScrutinizerwould you like your kickban stirred, or sunny side up?20:06
ZogG_laptopwhat would you suggest?20:07
DocScrutinizerbtw, you should know... I AM KNOWN BY MANY NAMES hrhrhrrrrhrr20:08
DocScrutinizerAnd meego boy made me feel rather kick-happy :-P20:08
ZogG_laptopyou can kick me if ti would help you =)20:09
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DocScrutinizerbtw WTF is an elop? can I eat that? Maybe smoke it to get high?20:10
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: I think it's what you do when you run off to get married.20:10
ZogG_laptopit is that guy who sould say something about n9, isn't he?20:11
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles, i think i saw u on TMO but never saw u talk here20:11
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop: on GAN900 more than this these days.20:11
ZogG_laptopbtw texrat ditched TMO and switched to meego forums?20:12
JartzaDocScrutinizer: Elop is just one ARM more than Flop :)20:12
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ZogG_laptopJartza, than give me Blop20:12
ZogG_laptop3 ARM's more than Flop20:13
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Jartza:)20:13
ZogG_laptopso GAN900 is GeneralAntilles ? i was fooled all the time long?20:13
DocScrutinizeroooh, and I thought it's the name of the tea leaves meego boy was shouting at to answer and tell him the future20:13
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DocScrutinizeranother cup of elop, Sor?20:13
DocScrutinizerSir*20:14
RST38hheya javispedro20:14
javispedrohi RST38h20:14
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* DocScrutinizer suggests public listening FZ Mytery Man20:15
DocScrutinizerdamn, my fingers die20:15
DocScrutinizerMystery Man20:15
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DocScrutinizerno elop for me20:17
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕20:17
ZogG_laptopRST38h, http://www.kakashka.org/index.php20:17
ZogG_laptoplol20:17
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RST38hZogG: http://urina-ru.narod.ru/20:19
* RST38h sighs20:19
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: GAN900 vs GeneralAntilles is the hidden test to tell apart the alert from the smart20:19
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DocScrutinizerBURP20:29
DocScrutinizerwho claimed there's no more IPv4 addr now?20:30
DocScrutinizerseems my GSM provider ran out of addresses just 70min ago :-P20:30
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ieatlintheh, my provider got clever and switched their phones over to the 25.0.0.0/8 address range in 200820:33
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ieatlintand just use it as an internal range like 10.0.0.0/8..20:34
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kerio25?20:38
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ieatlint"whois 25.0.0.0" .. "descr:          DINSA, Ministry of Defence"20:39
ieatlintuk20:39
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ieatlintthey weren't using them anyway :P20:41
ieatlintor, at least, here the 25.0.0.0/8 range has no routes at all20:41
DocScrutinizer51there's a fsckng lot of unused /1620:42
ArGGu^^Does anyone know that is there any problem with ovi store and GPLv2 apps?20:42
DocScrutinizer51and /8 as well20:43
ieatlintyeah, but even recovering those ips would be a short-lived extension20:43
DocScrutinizer51check out MIT20:43
ArGGu^^I mean Can I put GPLv2 app to ovi store?20:44
ieatlintor apple... i doubt they're using their class that much20:44
keriothey should do an iVPN20:44
DocScrutinizer51kerio: how's a VPN going to free IPs?20:46
kerioit won't20:46
keriobut apple has IPs20:46
ieatlinthttp://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-address-space.xml ... just look at the list of class a companies...20:46
ieatlintford motors?20:46
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ieatlintgeneral electric..20:47
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keriowho assigns IPv6s?20:47
ieatlintreally doubting they use 16m+ addresses20:47
ieatlintuh, iana/regional i think20:47
ieatlintARIN/APNIC/RIPE20:47
Trewasat least it is nice that 240.x.x.x - 255.x.x.x "future use" addresses were never needed for anything20:48
ieatlinteven if the ip address space were all recovered, it'd all just delay the inevitable20:49
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Trewasthat's true, not that ipv6 will become widely used anytime soon even now20:50
DocScrutinizer51yeah, the end of the world, err wait, what?20:50
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ieatlinteh, i could see places like china making a successful push for it20:52
DocScrutinizer51I guess when IPs aren't free anymore, we'll see a flourishing market like we seen for URLs20:52
* ShadowJK has like 8 IPs20:52
ShadowJKand I need them all, muahhahahahah20:52
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ieatlinti have ipv6 on my n90020:53
* DocScrutinizer51 owns 0.0.0.020:53
ieatlintfrom my provider20:53
* ieatlint owns 127.34.2.1320:53
DocScrutinizer51wow cool20:53
DocScrutinizer51and always has ping times <5ms :-P20:54
ieatlintyeah, no matter where i am :P20:54
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ieatlintat some point i'll get off my ass and set up ipv6... my dsl provider offers free ipv6 tunnelling20:56
ieatlintcan get a bunch of free public ips with it20:57
E0xnice20:58
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SpeedEvilA few years back, my UK ISP was offering 8 IPs, if you just wrote to them, for free.21:00
SpeedEvilI diddn't, so only have one. :(21:01
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GeneralAntillesle sigh21:04
GeneralAntillesKnocked the phone into the sink.21:04
ieatlint:(21:05
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GeneralAntillesFirst device I've ever water damaged.21:06
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* GeneralAntilles goes to buy cheap rice.21:06
javispedroTHE N900 on the sink?21:07
ieatlintaww, the n900 was your first21:08
kerioi currently have 62.10.74.PROTECTED21:08
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keriobut it's dynamic :(21:08
keriofreeeeeeeeeenodeeeeee21:08
ieatlintthat's enough for me to localise which country and region you're in though21:09
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b0unc3hello, someone can help with this : http://bit.ly/evCv1f ?21:09
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vi_tremulous!!21:27
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piggzin the contact app, if i have various IM accounts, they each have their own group....i noticed in the merge contacts plugin, i can select the group 'Cellular' to only show normal contacts added to the phone...is it possible to show this group in the contacts app somehow, as it isnt shown as an option when selecting a group...ie, image adding a fb account with several hundred people21:28
E0xexclude some group ?21:29
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GeneralAntillesvi_: hell yes!21:33
GeneralAntillesjavispedro: September proto is long dead. This is my Amazon device.21:34
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vi_whos gonna port it and earn the 50$ bounty???21:34
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GeneralAntillesvi_: is 1.2 out yet?21:34
vi_lol harharharhar21:36
vi_i hear 1.2 is gonna come with a demo of duke nukem forever on floppy disk21:37
vi_what is your trem tag?21:38
GeneralAntillesvi_: GeneralAntilles.21:39
GeneralAntillesHaven't played in at least a year, though.21:39
GeneralAntillesDon't know if you've ever heard of NULL.21:39
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vi_i remember some chap named /dev/null21:41
vi_but that was long ago on tbase21:42
GeneralAntillesUsed to run on DretchStorm and MG21:43
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blackthorneHi22:02
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RST38hEvery year, more and more Americans are dying in deserts and wildernesses because they rely on their GPS units (and, to some degree, their cellphones) to always be accurate.22:07
trxwe here in serbia cant die like that22:08
trxwe can only afford maps :)22:08
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RST38hI believe RPGs are cheaper in Serbia.22:08
trxRPGs?22:09
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wmaroneI believe RST38h's information on Serbia is out of date22:12
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johnsqHi22:21
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trxyeah, some 20 years22:24
trxand even then, rpgs were not used..22:24
trxor very little22:24
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trxanyways22:25
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trxdoes qt automaticaly convert mouse down + move to scrolling when QScrollArea?22:26
trxcant get it to work, i assign a widget and it just does nothing22:27
trxcustom widget tho...22:27
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col0urDocScrutinizer, stop being a fuck22:55
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b-manO_o22:56
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DocScrutinizernice to hear you try to stop being a fuck22:56
b-manthat wasn't necessary...22:57
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DocScrutinizernah22:57
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Venemogood evening guys22:57
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Venemois maemo.org down again?22:58
b-manDocScrutinizer: apologies for col0ur being an ass ;P22:58
DocScrutinizerI'm in a kick-happy mood anyway today, and /whois works22:59
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b-manDocScrutinizer: by all means, kick him - he can be an egomaniac at times ;)23:00
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N900addiktHey23:00
DocScrutinizerI'm getting pissed about offense and insult becoming a leisure pursuit here.23:01
N900addiktWhazz up?23:01
N900addiktDid i miss somethin intrestin?23:02
N900addiktFellas?23:02
DocScrutinizernah, just usual idiocy23:02
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DocScrutinizerbut you somewhat seem have started it, some hours ago23:03
Venemohey DocScrutinizer23:03
N900addiktI did? Sorry fellas. I had to leave23:04
VenemoDocScrutinizer: you had some nice feature recommendations for puzzle-master23:04
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ShadowJKyeah you missed the scoop on the future nokia battery. Half fuel cell, half Li-Ion. You fill it with ethanol (imagine filling a lighter), and it charges the Li-Ion battery. Lasts 20 times longer than regular battery23:04
VenemoDocScrutinizer: could you re-post them for me?23:04
* ShadowJK just made that up :D23:04
N900addiktWhat else is left for us forgotten disgruntled n900 owners, we come in and bitch and moan that our goddam given right man23:04
VenemoN900addikt: wut?23:05
N900addiktThats our goddam right man23:05
DocScrutinizerN900addikt: and you earn a +q for it - go ahead23:05
N900addiktWhy?23:05
DocScrutinizerjust because23:05
N900addiktWhat i say?23:05
N900addiktBe gentle with me man23:06
DocScrutinizerthis channel is meant for maemo user and developers, not for maemo haters and general rant about nokia23:06
ShadowJKleave us Happy N900 owners alone :(23:07
DocScrutinizerexactly23:07
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N900addiktI aint hater just pissed bro23:07
DocScrutinizerif you don't like maemo, don't use it, but please go elsewhere to bitch about the fact23:07
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DocScrutinizerI really hoped we put an end to that topic and kind of discussions some 6 months ago23:08
N900addiktyou wrong bro great things get accomplished thru discussion man not through ass kissin know what im sayin?23:09
ShadowJKthere's nobody here to "ass kiss"23:09
DocScrutinizerI know I neither like your diction nor your notion23:09
VenemoN900addikt: what's your problem?23:09
DocScrutinizerthe missing +q23:09
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DocScrutinizerwe can change that easily23:10
Venemo+q=?23:10
DocScrutinizerquiet23:10
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Venemoah!23:10
N900addiktI love maemo and want n900 to suceed but it seems our pleas are falling on deaf ears cause nobody give a damn about n900 no more know what im sayin?23:10
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VenemoN900addikt: not true23:11
VenemoN900addikt: I give a damn.23:11
jacekowskitrue23:11
jacekowskin900 is abandoned almost 2 years old phone23:11
jacekowskiand replacement is couple months away23:11
DocScrutinizerand I don't care23:11
DocScrutinizerand I don't learn anything from N900addikt telling me those notions of him23:12
N900addiktWell xcept for 3 hobbists on this chanel nobody else give a damn and the industry dont give a damn and there aint new apps comming out know what im sayin?23:12
DocScrutinizerSO WHAT????23:12
VenemoN900addikt: not true23:12
ShadowJKYou know if they made a N901 with more ram, and runnig same old Maemo5, I'd buy it :P23:12
VenemoN900addikt: puzzle-master is a new app. so new apps are coming out23:12
VenemoN900addikt: go try it.23:12
DocScrutinizerVenemo: sorry, can't recall what's been my suggestions for puzzle23:13
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: you recommended that it should remember the user-selected images, which I've done today23:13
N900addiktThe apps on maemo are mostly pos wheres the excitment that was promised everybody had a hardon when n900 was announced but then it died slow death why i ask why???23:13
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: however there was something else that I can't recall.23:14
VenemoN900addikt: 'pos'=?23:14
ShadowJKposition?23:14
DocScrutinizerN900addikt: no matter if your rant is true or not - what's your fscking point, man? you know what I'm sayin?23:14
VenemoShadowJK: so what does 'apps on maemo are mostly pos' mean?23:14
N900addiktpos mean piece of s**t you dont know this bro?23:15
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VenemoN900addikt: sorry, I'm no native English speaker.23:15
N900addiktDoc my beef aint with yous man23:15
VenemoN900addikt: however it is a great insult for me that you call my app 'piece of shit'.23:15
N900addiktDocScrutinizer: my beef aint you sorry bout that bro23:16
N900addiktVenemo: what app?23:16
ShadowJKpork too?23:16
DocScrutinizerme neither, and especially not grown up in some rapper posse, yo man23:16
VenemoN900addikt: read scrollback23:16
N900addiktWhy u making fun of the way i speak? No everybody was born english some of us are doin our best23:17
VenemoN900addikt: Doc isn't English either.23:17
VenemoN900addikt: so what is the purpose of your trolling here?23:17
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N900addiktu make fun of way i speak u call me troll....what i do to yous bro?23:18
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trxjust ~q..23:18
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VenemoN900addikt: I didn't make fun of the way you speak, since I've never heard you speaking.23:19
N900addiktGo check the meaning of irc in diktionary bro its where everybody speak man23:19
* DocScrutinizer suspects N900addikt == N900hater == N900lover == the troll that got banned at least 4 times already23:19
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VenemoMohammadAG: ping23:19
DocScrutinizerand I'm 5 seconds from fixing the missing +b23:19
N900addiktDocScrutinizer: no true man i aint been banned23:19
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VenemoN900addikt: can't you locate the apostrophe character on your keyboard?23:20
N900addiktOk....why you so mean bro?23:20
N900addiktI sayed to you i aint english bro capisci?23:20
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Sc0rpius"said"23:20
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N900addiktSaid23:21
Sc0rpiusanyway do you have a question?23:21
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N900addiktwhy was i lied to when i buyed n90023:21
Sc0rpius"bought"23:21
Sc0rpiussell it and buy an Android phone, or an iPhone, and problem solved23:22
VenemoN900addikt: so if you "ain't" English, then go to an English course and learn English first, please.23:22
Sc0rpiusyou don't need to have a hard time with it23:22
VenemoN900addikt: and I'm not your 'bro'.23:22
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N900addiktwe all had a hardon when n900 was announced and then the fizzle died xcept for hobbysts here bro23:23
VenemoN900addikt: I'm not your 'bro'23:23
MohammadAGVenemo, pong23:23
Scorcerergo cry in your bed already, nobody here cares23:23
DocScrutinizerN900addikt: we are not Nokia customer care here, and we're not your personal psychiatrists, and I'm really temped to kick you for offensive speech, trolling, and an IP and diction and nick that damn resembles that of N900hater23:24
VenemoMohammadAG: what was the solution to reach ~/QtSDK/Maemo/4.6.2/bin/mad as simply mad?23:24
N900addiktWhat offensive speech bro?23:24
VenemoMohammadAG: I think it was some kind of alias, but I can't recall how it was23:24
VenemoN900addikt: none of us are your bros here. please don't call us that.23:24
VenemoN900addikt: why don't you simply sell the N900?23:25
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col0urDocScrutinizer, i love you :) <323:25
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b-man....:P23:25
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*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b col0ur!*@*23:25
b-manthank you :P23:25
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N900addiktSorry bros23:26
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N900addiktI m just a victim23:26
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till|bye bye :)23:26
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Venemothanks DocScrutinizer :)23:27
DocScrutinizerping me if you learnt to listen to others asking you not to call them bro, bro23:27
VenemoN900addikt: so, do you get it that we are NOT your bros?23:27
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DocScrutinizeranybody else without a ticket?23:27
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*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +b *!*@wikipedia/Archanamiya23:30
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DocScrutinizerdarn, not even Friday yet23:31
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VenemoMohammadAG: so do you remember how it was?23:35
Skyscraperhi23:35
Skyscrapercan maybe anyone compile "cryptlib" for n900?23:36
VenemoSkyscraper: why don't you?23:36
SkyscraperVenemo: dont know how... tryed to "make" in n900 xterm... but doenst work :D23:36
DocScrutinizermissing 67GB free space for SB?23:36
DocScrutinizer:-)23:36
VenemoSkyscraper: try on your computer23:37
DocScrutinizerVenemo: that's mean23:37
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SkyscraperVenemo: i need maemo sdk i think?!23:37
DocScrutinizeryep23:37
DocScrutinizerand it's a friggin monster23:37
Skyscraperis it possible to install on Xubuntu 10.10 i386 ?23:38
VenemoSkyscraper: yes, it is.23:38
VenemoSkyscraper: there are lots of other things needed usually 'make' is not enough.23:38
Skyscraperokay... because i have my (now running =) ) lazarus+fpc setup for crosscompiling running here too23:38
SkyscraperVenemo: why?23:38
VenemoSkyscraper: we could help you if you gave us the error messages.23:39
Skyscraperi only need this f**** libcl.so23:39
Skyscraperfor n90023:39
Skyscrapermy crosscompiler wants it xD23:39
Skyscraperbecause i'm using cryptlib in my app23:39
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VenemoSkyscraper: mhm23:39
VenemoSkyscraper: so what's the error message?23:39
Skyscraperno error message at this time... only from lazarus... wanting libcl.so ;)23:40
VenemoSkyscraper: so install libcl, whatever that is23:40
Skyscraperlibcl is cryptlib23:40
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VenemoSkyscraper: I mean, what was the error when you tried to compile libcl?23:41
SkyscraperVenemo: i have to download sdk ;)23:41
Skyscraperon the phone itself i have no gcc23:41
MohammadAGretarded question for a retarded person23:42
VenemoMohammadAG: ?23:42
MohammadAGshouldn't a Nokia uSD card work in a samsung phone?23:42
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MohammadAGa Nokia branded uSD card should work in any phone with a uSD slot, right?23:43
VenemoMohammadAG: right.23:43
MohammadAGit isn't23:45
Skyscraperdo i have to start the maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py as root?23:45
Sc0rpiusI wonder if I ever did that23:46
Skyscraperyes i have to :D23:46
Skyscraper./maemo-sdk-install-wizard_5.0.py  Python Qt4 bindings are not found! Do you want to install missing package "python-qt4"? (Type "y" to install) y Executing command: ['apt-get', 'install', 'python-qt4'] E: Sperrdatei /var/lib/dpkg/lock konnte nicht geöffnet werden - open (13: Permission denied) E: Sperren des Administrationsverzeichnisses (/var/lib/dpkg/) nicht möglich, sind Sie root? Automatic installation of package "python-qt4"23:47
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till|try sudo .... ?23:48
Skyscrapertill|: yes thanks... its already running23:48
MohammadAGhow do I recover a microSD password23:48
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Skyscraperwhat is VDSO kernel parameter?23:49
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Sc0rpiusoh :(23:49
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ieatlint"LONDON – Egyptian authorities forced Vodafone to broadcast pro-government text messages during the protests that have rocked the country, the U.K.-based mobile company said Thursday." ... this is why support for SMS-CB really needs to be added to the n90023:51
ieatlintimagine all those users who missed out on these messages :(23:51
Sc0rpiuswhat's SMS-CB?23:51
ShadowJKcell broadcast23:51
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Sc0rpiusthat sounds like "spam" to me23:52
Sc0rpiusactually, what does it has to do with the mobile? SMS-CB is implemented at SMSC level23:52
VenemoSkyscraper: it needs to be turned off in order for the SDK to work23:52
Sc0rpiusthe mobile would just receive a normal SMS.23:52
SkyscraperVenemo: ok good... i have checked the "permanent" checkbox ;)23:52
MohammadAGmeh23:53
VenemoSkyscraper: you need to modify your kernel line23:53
MohammadAGit was password protected23:53
VenemoMohammadAG: you can't recover a microSD password23:53
Proteousformat!23:53
hajI wonder if I'll be able to use a Nokia carcharger to charge my N900 on this old bike I'm "restoring" -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blQg253dr0k23:53
SkyscraperVenemo: installer done that for me i think23:53
hajIt's 6V...23:53
Proteousdo we need to watch a youtube video to answer that question?23:53
hajYou should, it's a nice bike :)23:53
Proteousuh huh23:54
ieatlintSc0rpius: see bug #834723:54
povbotBug https://bugs.maemo.org/8347 Cell Broadcast Feature not available23:54
hajnah.. but I wonder if the 12V charger will do anything at 6 volts :)23:54
Proteousit won't23:54
ShadowJKhaj, probably better to use that 2+3.5mm to musb adapter23:54
ShadowJKCA-146C23:54
ShadowJKif you have one23:54
* Sc0rpius goes to read the bug23:55
Skyscraperanyone already developed an app which does some thinks when n900 registers at GSM CELLID xy23:55
* SpeedEvil tries to remember who here was from egypt.23:55
Skyscraper*things23:55
MohammadAGVenemo, it was 123423:55
MohammadAGI'm close to killing someone23:55
hajShadowJK: and just connect it directly to the 6V battery? problem is that the power goes up to about 7V when running at high revs..23:56
VenemoMohammadAG, lol23:56
ShadowJKhaj, so theoretically it accepts 3-11V23:56
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ShadowJKin practice it goes into meltdown sometimes :)23:56
hajShadowJK: I don't think I'd like meltdown.. :)23:56
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: where from these specs?23:57
hajShadowJK: I guess it should be safe enough when the motor is not running though...23:57
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, 2mm charging system accepts 10V with sufficient input impedance, so..23:57
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DocScrutinizermhm23:58
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ShadowJKhaj, i guess you could try car charger too, one of the ones I have works down to 6-7V or so..23:58
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till|i've used a homebrew charger for my n82 and n800 on my bicycle :)23:58
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SpeedEvilhttp://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4212726/Intel-has-late-metal-fix-for-design-error?cid=NL_EETimesDaily#23:59
till|sometimes charging did stop when going downhill23:59
MohammadAGVenemo, he was arguing about crap I knew was right23:59
SpeedEvilThe perils of electromigration.23:59
MohammadAGlike a Nokia uSD only working in a Nokia phone23:59
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: o.O23:59

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