IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2011-02-04

VenemoMohammadAG: :)00:00
hajShadowJK: what model is it? I'd feel more safe using a "certified" charger ;)00:00
MohammadAGI put it in the N900 and it said error initializing card00:01
MohammadAGN95 said Memory Card Password:00:01
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC00:02
ieatlintit the card actually encrypted, or is it just some sort of lock file that symbian honours?00:02
*** dos1 has quit IRC00:02
*** briglia has quit IRC00:02
SpeedEvilstrings /dev/mmc1blk100:03
ieatlintah.. security..00:03
SpeedEvilsee if it's actually crypted00:03
SpeedEvilIn principle they may use the SD features that nobody ever uses.00:03
SkyscraperMohammadAG: try
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo00:04
MohammadAGI already removed the pass00:04
MohammadAGit was 123400:04
*** jrocha has joined #maemo00:05
Skyscraperah ok O:-)00:05
*** swc|666 has quit IRC00:05
Proteousjust like my luggage00:05
ieatlintwas just about to make that joke00:05
ieatlintbastard :P00:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: nice00:06
*** rd has joined #maemo00:06
*** VladNistor has quit IRC00:07
DocScrutinizernow if only we could *force* OCers to read and try to wrap their head around all that00:07
DocScrutinizerOTOH who cares00:07
*** larsivi has quit IRC00:08
Skyscraperhow big is the maemo sdk? oO00:08
ShadowJKi thought intel's sata3g issue wasn't e-migration?00:08
DocScrutinizerdamage done already. I'll never buy a used N900. And I cba any longer to try and educate all those fools that brag with 1.2GHz in their tmo signature00:08
DocScrutinizerSkyscraper: some 5GB iirc00:08
Skyscraperhm i have 5GB left... its running on step 500:09
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC00:09
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo00:09
DocScrutinizerSkyscraper: at least that's what the /scratchbox folder bites out of my HDD here00:09
Skyscraperits "5/11 Installing SDK targets"00:09
VenemoDocScrutinizer: reacting to your used N900 comment, I actually realized that buying a separate phone and a tablet costs less than buying one device that's both00:10
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I don't really understand the reason behind this though.00:10
SkyscraperVenemo: iPhone and iPad together is cheaper than n900? :D00:10
*** _NIN has quit IRC00:11
*** rd has quit IRC00:12
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC00:13
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo00:13
*** pcacjr has quit IRC00:15
*** zap has quit IRC00:15
VenemoSkyscraper: hehe, not really00:16
SkyscraperVenemo: ^00:17
*** rcg has quit IRC00:17
VenemoSkyscraper: but a phone that is just a phone, plus an Archos tablet are.00:17
VenemoSkyscraper: Archos 43 can do everything that N900 can, except the phone functionality00:18
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I've had that several times, like 6210 + palmpilot-V00:19
VenemoI don't own one, but next time I'll buy some devices, I'll look around the tablet market more00:19
DocScrutinizerVenemo: always found it's missing the point00:19
VenemoDocScrutinizer: what's missing the point?00:19
SkyscraperVenemo: is it linux based?00:19
VenemoSkyscraper: yes00:20
VenemoSkyscraper: it uses crapdroid, but MeeGo is ported to it00:20
DocScrutinizerto have a tablet that can't manage your contacts so you got phone call integration. A phone that can access internet but only does WAP00:20
SkyscraperVenemo: armel?00:20
haltdefDocScrutinizer, was it you i was talking to about stereo channels getting swapped?00:20
VenemoSkyscraper: yep00:20
haltdefwell, confirmed00:20
VenemoDocScrutinizer: mhm. yeah, the N900 is a great all-round device :)00:20
VenemoDocScrutinizer: I actually like the concept of the old NITs00:21
SkyscraperVenemo: is ubuntu possible?00:21
haltdefscared the shit out of me when it swapped, quickly fired up my left/right wav to confirm00:21
VenemoSkyscraper: I didn't research ubuntu00:21
DocScrutinizerwhich app?00:21
DocScrutinizerwhat user action to trigger swap?00:21
*** tackat has quit IRC00:21
SkyscraperVenemo: ubuntu runs on n900 from sd :)00:21
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo00:22
VenemoSkyscraper: I don't care about ubuntu00:22
SkyscraperVenemo: ubuntu is very nice00:22
VenemoSkyscraper: it probably is, but it's not designed to be used on tablets00:22
VenemoSkyscraper: for tablet/netbook experience, I'd rather just use MeeGo00:22
SkyscraperVenemo: theres a netbook version from ubuntu00:23
*** javispedro has joined #maemo00:24
VenemoSkyscraper: yes, I saw their Unity UI. it isn't bad, but I didn't really like it.00:24
SkyscraperVenemo: works very nice on n90000:25
*** jacktheripper has quit IRC00:25
felluSkyscraper, have any video of ubuntu on900?00:25
VenemoSkyscraper: well, I'm one of those people who actually like the Hildon UX :)00:25
*** davyg has quit IRC00:25
javispedroMohammadAG: heh, I have a Nokia uSD that works anywhere except on the N8x0/N900.00:26
javispedro.. where it shows read errors all over the place.00:26
* javispedro will make a point to find one symbian thing to test such card on it.00:27
*** choppa has quit IRC00:27
Skyscraperfellu: no but view the thread in maemo forum00:28
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC00:28
*** obarron|dx has joined #maemo00:29
*** zap has joined #maemo00:29
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC00:30
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo00:31
Skyscrapersdk wont start?00:32
*** lardman|home has joined #maemo00:34
Skyscraperbrowserd[26227]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - cannot open display: :2 browserd mafw-dbus-wrapper[26221]: GLIB WARNING ** mafw-gst-renderer - Could not initialize hal maemo-launcher: child (pid=26206) terminated due to signal=1100:34
*** obarron|dx has quit IRC00:35
MohammadAGjavispedro, has any company ever locked cards to its devices?00:37
MohammadAGI thought all cards followed a spec00:37
MohammadAGSandisk, Nokia, etc, they all follow the same spec00:37
MohammadAGand aren't all (well, most) chips in memory cards from Samsung, which makes the whole argument I had invalid on the guy's side00:38
*** N900addikt has quit IRC00:39
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo00:41
*** diegohcg has quit IRC00:41
Skyscraperwhats that?/usr/bin/ line 302: 26899 Aborted                 /usr/bin/hildon-home /usr/bin/ line 302: 26917 Segmentation fault      (core dumped) $TRACKER /usr/bin/ line 302: 26919 Aborted                 (core dumped) mafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/mafw-plugin/ /usr/bin/ line 302: 26920 Aborted                 (core dumped) mafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/mafw-plu00:41
*** GNUtoo|laptop has quit IRC00:47
*** merlin1991 has joined #maemo00:48
*** mirsal has joined #maemo00:51
*** millenomi has quit IRC00:51
jacekowskiSkyscraper: memory problems in worst case00:55
MohammadAGSkyscraper, if you're on ARMEL, switch to X86, also, export DISPLAY=:000:55
jacekowskiMohammadAG: samsung and toshiba00:55
MohammadAGerr, :200:55
MohammadAGand start a xephyr window if you have none00:55
Skyscraperjacekowski: hm i have problems with my ram in windows... dont know why... memtest says all ok00:56
SkyscraperMohammadAG: its x86 target... why DISPLAY=:0?00:56
MohammadAG:2, my bad00:56
jacekowskiMohammadAG: there are 3 manufacturers of flash chips00:56
MohammadAGmake sure you have the right Xephyr window open00:56
SkyscraperMohammadAG: already done that00:57
MohammadAGjacekowski, anyway, I proved him wrong, which is good enough :P00:57
*** chx_ has quit IRC00:57
jacekowskiMohammadAG: and if you go by numbers toshiba is bigger00:57
jacekowskijavispedro: microsd can be encrypted/locked/drmed00:57
jacekowskijavispedro: well, SD in general00:58
MohammadAGsymbian's locking mechanism is retarded00:58
jacekowskijavispedro: and then if you don't have correct password it will just fail miserably00:58
MohammadAGyou NEED a symbian device to unlock it00:58
javispedroyeah, but this is on what they sell as blank cards00:58
jacekowskithese cards are locked00:58
jacekowskiyou can reset them some way00:59
jacekowskibut it wipes everything on it00:59
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo00:59
javispedrothen again I never put much thought on that card as I guess I would find it out it was counterfeit.00:59
MohammadAGjacekowski, just format the card00:59
MohammadAGwhat if I need the data on them though01:00
jacekowskijavispedro: as i said there are only 3 manufactureres of flash chips01:00
Skyscraperi started reinstalling sdk... go to sleep... good night01:00
jacekowskion top of flash chip01:00
jacekowskiyou need controller01:00
jacekowskiand there is lot of manufacturers of them01:00
jacekowskiand that's what makes card an SD card or compact flash or memory stick or whatever01:00
javispedroand usually what makes it crap.01:00
*** Svavel has quit IRC01:01
jacekowskisame flash chips are in your usb memory sticks and your sd and microsd card01:01
jacekowskiand internal emmc01:01
javispedroeither way I'd say there's more than 3.01:02
*** FireFly has quit IRC01:02
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC01:02
jacekowskiit's sandisk toshiba and samsung01:03
javispedromicron does01:04
*** MadViking has quit IRC01:05
*** zap has quit IRC01:05
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo01:05
*** MadViking has joined #maemo01:06
jacekowskias far as i know they only license technology from toshiba01:07
DocScrutinizer gives a lot of deep insight01:07
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC01:08
*** chigga has quit IRC01:14
*** norayr has joined #maemo01:14
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC01:16
*** Dialekt has quit IRC01:17
*** mardi has joined #maemo01:18
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC01:18
*** johnsq has quit IRC01:18
anidelanyone with PR1.2 or PR1.3 on the N900 can send me a screenshot of the Send window in the Modest client ? Particulary with the lower bar visible (with the second SEND button). Thanks01:20
*** etrunko has quit IRC01:21
*** nox- has joined #maemo01:23
*** Tuco11 has joined #maemo01:25
* GeneralAntilles got a sequence of a blue heron horking up a load of dead fish onto some poor guy's boat.01:27
*** Tuco1 has quit IRC01:28
*** smackpotato has joined #maemo01:30
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo01:30
*** zap has joined #maemo01:30
*** smackpotato has left #maemo01:31
Venemobye-bye guy01:31
Venemobye-bye guys01:31
*** Venemo has quit IRC01:31
*** florian has quit IRC01:32
*** florian has joined #maemo01:33
*** florian has joined #maemo01:33
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo01:33
*** thuttu77 has quit IRC01:34
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC01:36
*** thuttu77 has joined #maemo01:36
*** florian has quit IRC01:46
*** Ayu`_ has joined #maemo01:48
*** florian has joined #maemo01:49
*** OkropNick has quit IRC01:51
*** Ayu` has quit IRC01:51
*** Ayu`_ is now known as Ayu`01:53
*** Ayu` is now known as Guest2317501:53
*** trbs has quit IRC01:55
*** retro|cz has joined #maemo01:56
*** auenf has quit IRC01:56
norayrThis is post I've just made about photo light meter for maemo/fremantle
norayrI'll prepare a version for Diablo as well later01:57
norayrgoing to sleep, bye bye01:58
*** norayr is now known as norayr^off01:58
*** auenf has joined #maemo02:01
*** jrocha has quit IRC02:02
*** LjL has quit IRC02:02
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo02:07
*** haltdef has quit IRC02:08
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC02:09
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC02:10
*** edisson has quit IRC02:11
*** SouBE has quit IRC02:15
*** BCMM has quit IRC02:20
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo02:20
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo02:21
*** florian has quit IRC02:21
*** ssspeq has quit IRC02:25
*** mybluevan has quit IRC02:25
lardman|homenight all02:28
*** lardman|home has quit IRC02:28
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo02:29
*** rm_work has quit IRC02:37
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo02:38
*** lxp has joined #maemo02:39
*** mybluevan has quit IRC02:40
*** lxp1 has quit IRC02:42
*** haltdef has joined #maemo02:42
*** xnt14 has quit IRC02:45
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC02:48
*** toniher has quit IRC02:48
*** javispedro has quit IRC02:50
anideltrumee, thanks!02:51
*** anidel has quit IRC02:56
*** merlin1991 has quit IRC02:57
*** Diod has quit IRC02:57
*** Extends_ has quit IRC02:58
*** MadViking has quit IRC02:59
*** MadViking has joined #maemo02:59
*** geaaru has quit IRC03:03
*** Mousey has quit IRC03:05
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC03:07
*** achipa has quit IRC03:07
*** zap has quit IRC03:14
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo03:18
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo03:27
*** hd has quit IRC03:34
*** hd has joined #maemo03:34
*** hd has quit IRC03:34
*** hd has joined #maemo03:34
*** rm_you has quit IRC03:38
*** swc|666 has quit IRC03:38
*** noodles900 has quit IRC03:44
*** xnt14 has joined #maemo03:47
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo03:47
*** guerby_ has joined #maemo03:55
*** guerby has quit IRC03:56
*** valdyn has quit IRC04:02
*** jevin has joined #maemo04:03
*** jonwil has joined #maemo04:05
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo04:05
ieatlintok, i need someone who knows a bit of c++ ... what's the difference between MyClass, MyClass* and MyClass& ?04:07
*** Gyjf has quit IRC04:07
ieatlintor really, MyClass and MyClass&, as i know MyClass* is a pointer to it, but the other two are causing me a headache04:07
wmaronea postfix &?04:10
jonwilMyClass& is a reference04:10
* ieatlint misses c, where he understood pointers04:11
*** valdyn has joined #maemo04:12
wmaronenow I get it04:12
wmaronethat's... bleh04:13
*** sid_ has quit IRC04:13
*** silanus_ has joined #maemo04:13
*** silanus has quit IRC04:15
*** valerius has joined #maemo04:16
*** hardaker has quit IRC04:18
*** nox- has quit IRC04:20
*** zpol has joined #maemo04:21
*** noodles900 has quit IRC04:23
*** lopz has quit IRC04:24
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo04:24
*** renatofilho has quit IRC04:25
*** lmoura_ has quit IRC04:26
*** sid_ has joined #maemo04:27
jonwilheh, there are rumors that Nokia is going to switch to Windows Phone...04:28
jonwilIMO switching to Windows Phone would really hurt Nokia04:29
*** chigga has joined #maemo04:31
wmaronethere have been rumors of that for weeks04:31
wmaronethe hiring postings lend no creedence to it04:32
ieatlinteverything i've heard from nokia employees has been firmly without question or vagueness, that meego is nokia's future04:32
*** noodles900 has quit IRC04:34
ieatlintalso, nokia spent $3.9bn US on R&D in 2010 (apple comparatively spent less than $1bn on phones)... if they spent that only to use MS software, their shareholders would also be very upset04:34
ShadowJKthe argument is that they'd save a large part of that 4bn by letting MS spend it on Windows phone :P04:35
jonwilI think the rumors partially come because the new head of Nokia is ex-MS04:36
ShadowJKThe general idea seems to be that Nokia with its name could put windows phonew into consumers' pockets.04:36
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo04:37
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC04:37
ShadowJKAnd hey, windows phone is stupidly crippled in many areas. It'd follow some of the tradition of symbians :)04:38
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC04:38
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC04:41
ShadowJK(referring to the old classical: if you're a hip consumer you don't get to have any RAM memory at all, storage memory that fills up and crashes phone after installing one app. If you're a "business" person you get RAM and stainless steel or aluminium, but no multimedia)04:42
*** jonwil has quit IRC04:44
*** jonwil has joined #maemo04:45
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo04:47
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC04:50
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo04:51
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has joined #maemo04:54
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC04:55
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC04:55
*** ZZzzZzzz1 has quit IRC04:57
ieatlinti really do believe we'll see nokia push meego phones... i'm hoping at the MWC in a week05:00
*** Titogelo has quit IRC05:02
jonwilI hope that whatever they push, it has ARM05:05
ieatlinthah, yeah, that one rumour claiming an intel chip in the n9... unlikely05:06
*** APTX has quit IRC05:13
*** APTX has joined #maemo05:13
GeneralAntillesIt's gonna be an iPhone05:15
GeneralAntillesNokia is going to be the new iPhone manufacturer.05:16
MohammadAGof course, it's the master plan to ruin iOS!05:16
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo05:20
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo05:20
*** vblazquez has quit IRC05:21
*** Guest23175 has quit IRC05:26
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo05:30
*** maybeWTF has joined #maemo05:30
*** maybeHere has quit IRC05:34
*** rm_you has joined #maemo05:37
*** ferdna has joined #maemo05:38
*** ferdna has quit IRC05:43
*** rm_you has quit IRC05:43
*** arp_ is now known as arp05:44
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:48
*** [q^_^p] has joined #maemo05:48
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:48
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:48
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:48
[q^_^p]hi for all05:49
*** Ssspeq has joined #maemo05:49
[q^_^p]any one know how i get the remote code for tv on irreco05:50
[q^_^p]lcd lg 32ld33005:51
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC05:51
*** hurbu__ has quit IRC05:54
*** [q^_^p] has quit IRC05:54
*** dockane has quit IRC06:02
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away06:05
*** dockane has joined #maemo06:05
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo06:07
*** hurbu__ has joined #maemo06:07
*** KMFDM has quit IRC06:07
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC06:08
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo06:09
*** Gadgetoid has quit IRC06:13
*** NishanthMenon has joined #maemo06:17
johnxthoughts on the engadget/aava thing?06:23
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC06:23
johnxlinkage if anyone's interested:
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo06:24
ShadowJKI'd be surprised if aava ISN'T showcased with every possible OS :)06:24
*** rm_you has joined #maemo06:25
johnxm00f rm_you06:25
*** moshee has quit IRC06:26
*** moshee has joined #maemo06:26
*** trupheenix has quit IRC06:26
rm_youwas setting up a new Asus RT-n16 with tomato06:26
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo06:27
johnxworking out well?06:27
rm_youstupidly easy06:29
johnxyeah, tomato is nice for the routers it supports06:29
*** SmilybOrg has quit IRC06:30
johnxand the polish is all there06:30
rm_youalso, as to timezones.... i'd point to routers that have a simple "select your timezone from this list based on the GMT offset, and check a DST box", or windows, which has the same setting06:32
johnxit's always a thin line to walk in terms of whether you'd confuse a lot of people or piss off a smallish number06:32
*** Rhoruns_ has quit IRC06:34
rm_youi still feel like the people who designed the tz system deserve a good strangling T_T06:34
*** Sc0rpius has quit IRC06:34
rm_youas, in this case, M$ got it right...06:34
*** Rhoruns has quit IRC06:34
rm_youjust bitching about having to randomly guess a city in my time zone that's on the other side of the country from me, instead of saying "GMT -6, with DST"06:35
ShadowJKWhich DST?06:36
rm_youso i just click around on random cities until i get one that says GMT -606:36
ShadowJKSince the dates vary depending on where you are06:36
rm_youeveryone keeps saying that06:36
rm_youbut there are obviously systems that manage somehow06:36
ShadowJKAnd yeah, guessing cities sucks.06:36
rm_youlike... Windows 95/98/2000/NT/XP/Vista/7?06:36
rm_youand most router software?06:37
rm_youand a ton of other devices?06:37
ShadowJKWindows always made me pick a city iirc06:37
rm_youeven fscking wristwatches and alarm clocks?06:37
johnxthere are systems that choose to piss off a small number of people, by not listing there situation06:37
ShadowJKit says "Helsinki/Athens/Teheran" iirc :P06:37
*** radic has quit IRC06:37
*** radic_ has joined #maemo06:37
ShadowJKThough I doubt Iran has DST on same dates as Greece and Finland..06:37
rm_youfrom my computer, right now, win706:39
johnxuhm, does canada really start DST at the same time as the states?06:39
ShadowJKah it has offset AND city, that's okay06:40
rm_youand imgur isn't loading or i'd show the part that was hidden06:40
rm_youwtf my internet06:41
rm_youWTB some06:41
rm_youam i still online>06:41
ShadowJK"These limitations have caused problems. For example, before 2005, DST in Israel varied each year and was skipped some years. Windows 95 used rules correct for 1995 only, causing problems in later years. In Windows 98 Microsoft marked Israel as not having DST, forcing Israeli users to shift their computer clocks manually twice a year. The 2005 Israeli Daylight Saving Law established predictable rules using the Jewish calendar but Windows zone files cannot06:42
ShadowJK represent the rules' dates in a year-independent way. "06:42
* ShadowJK lols06:42
rm_youlol, so the rest of the world's population suffers because Israel can't make up their damn minds06:43
johnxyeah, and the US and Canada *would* have had different DST rules *except* that Canada chose to pass the same law as the US about changing it06:43
johnxthe US can't either06:43
johnxDST changed on 2007 for no good *#&$ing reason06:43
johnxLook, let's save time and just have the general form of this argument: Is it better to provide options that fit 99% of peoples' situations, or to purposefully leave out 20% of people to make things easier for the remaining 80%?06:45
*** rm_you| has joined #maemo06:45
rm_you|that little tickbox06:45
rm_you|anywho, it's dumb06:46
johnxDST is dumb06:46
johnxand any 'solution' can't be 100%06:46
GeneralAntillesBut we're all farmers relying on lamps!06:46
rm_you|yeah but they chose the worst one06:46
johnxso you like the 80%/20% idea?06:46
*** Scorpius has joined #maemo06:47
rm_you|cater to the 80% and let the 20% change the time on their computer *twice per year* manually?06:47
rm_you|erm, sure06:47
rm_you|why not06:47
johnxgreat. buy a mac. come back when you have one06:47
rm_you|except i think it's more like 98% and 2%06:47
*** rm_you has quit IRC06:48
rm_you|and obviously windows is working somehow06:48
*** rm_you| is now known as rm_you06:48
ShadowJKThis farmer's argument is kinda weird, because every farmer I know don't give a shit about the time, they follow the sun06:49
johnxIIRC, the popular story about DST is that it was a joke made by Ben Franklin taken out of context06:50
ShadowJKIt probably makes more sense for factories and offices that typically have strict slavery to the clock - if lights weren't on in daylight anyways :P06:51
rm_youjohnx: so, on sqeeze, which xen packages do i want to install06:51
rm_youxen-hypervisor-4.0-amd64 ?06:54
rm_youah, xen-linux-system-2.6.32-5-xen-amd6406:55
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo07:00
*** Ssspeq has quit IRC07:05
*** dRbiG has quit IRC07:06
*** dRbiG has joined #maemo07:08
jonwilYAY, "Your Nokia product has been serviced and will shortly be available for collection."07:09
jonwilLets hope that means I can go and pick it up today07:10
jonwilor failing that tommorow07:10
*** n6pfk has quit IRC07:11
*** hd is now known as jd07:11
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo07:13
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC07:16
jonwilof course that may mean "07:18
jonwilmean "your handset is in the post and will take the best part of a week to get here"07:18
*** nicu has quit IRC07:23
*** Sc0rpius has joined #maemo07:23
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo07:24
*** Scorpius has quit IRC07:24
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has quit IRC07:25
*** ZZzzZzzz_ has joined #maemo07:25
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo07:32
*** MacMiller has joined #maemo07:32
*** MacMiller has quit IRC07:32
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:33
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo07:33
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo07:38
*** Necc has joined #maemo07:39
*** Malin_ has quit IRC07:42
*** trupheenix has quit IRC07:47
*** Gorroth has quit IRC07:53
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo07:56
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo07:59
*** Gorroth has joined #maemo08:00
*** Necc has quit IRC08:01
*** Skyscraper has quit IRC08:02
*** lucent_ has quit IRC08:04
*** Termana has joined #maemo08:04
Termanagood morning08:05
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo08:08
*** ebzzry has joined #maemo08:10
ebzzryWhere does Modest store its data?08:10
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo08:19
*** mybluevan has quit IRC08:20
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo08:21
*** RobbieThe1st has joined #maemo08:25
*** mybluevan has quit IRC08:26
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo08:27
*** piggz has joined #maemo08:37
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo08:37
xkr47I started my n900 but forgot to enter pin code08:37
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo08:38
xkr47now when I picked it up, there are icons and title bars covering the pin code entry screen at strange locations08:38
johnxebzzry, probably /home/user in a hidden directory08:38
xkr47now I got it into a state where I see the hildon app manager and all icons are along a vertical line in the middle of the screen08:39
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC08:40
*** tank-man has quit IRC08:43
*** tank-man has joined #maemo08:43
*** ebzzry has quit IRC08:44
*** RobbieThe1st has quit IRC08:44
*** ebzzry has joined #maemo08:44
*** RobbieThe1st has joined #maemo08:44
*** ftrvxmtrx has quit IRC08:44
*** piggz has quit IRC08:45
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo08:46
*** Termana has quit IRC08:48
*** villev has joined #maemo08:51
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC08:52
DocScrutinizerheh >>Please kindly note: We are on Chinese New Year Holiday from 28th, Jan, 2011 to 10th, Feb, 2011. All orders in holiday, we will start to ship out on 11th, Feb, 2011. Sorry for any inconvenience.<<08:52
johnxyay. Chinese new year. The one year week of the year where China reminds all companies that there is a potential single point of failure in their supply chain :)08:54
johnxs/year week/week of the year/g08:54
infobotjohnx meant: yay. Chinese new year. The one week of the year of the year where China reminds all companies that there is a potential single point of failure in their supply chain :)08:54
* johnx fails08:54
*** geaaru has joined #maemo08:55
RST38hmoo, johnx08:55
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo08:55
*** ftrvxmtrx has joined #maemo08:56
*** avs has joined #maemo08:57
xkr47bah it forgot the locations of icons during reboot08:58
DocScrutinizerjonwil: or they tagged a sticker on it "FUBAR - happy CNY"08:58
* slonopotamus really wonders why his n800 doesn't see mmc card when running 2.6.22-omap1 + diablo patches08:59
*** nicu has joined #maemo08:59
*** mairas has joined #maemo09:00
* DocScrutinizer yawns09:00
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC09:01
johnxDocScrutinizer, stop taking my oxygen >:P09:03
*** lucent_ has joined #maemo09:03
*** script has quit IRC09:04
DocScrutinizerI'm an anaerobic lifeform09:05
johnxwhat purpose does yawning serve? Just to make the locals comfortable?09:05
*** mece has joined #maemo09:06
*** script has joined #maemo09:06
*** kthomas has joined #maemo09:06
*** Guest29841 has joined #maemo09:06
DocScrutinizernah, it's a signal that it's time for coffee09:08
jonwilI am sure Nokia are going to return my N900 in working order. About the only reason they wouldn't do it is if it was both a.Unfixable and b.Not covered under warranty09:08
*** calvaris has joined #maemo09:08
slonopotamusit's always time for coffee (otherwise it's time for sleep)09:08
*** kthomas_vh_ has quit IRC09:08
DocScrutinizerjonwil: or they are chinese09:09
jonwilNokia are Finnish, not Chinese09:10
*** chx_ has joined #maemo09:13
RST38hThank you, Cpt Obvious09:13
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo09:15
DocScrutinizerjonwil: HAH, >>Made in Korea<<09:15
*** guerby_ is now known as guerby09:15
*** trx2 has joined #maemo09:16
*** geaaru has quit IRC09:16
johnxDocScrutinizer, just FYI, China != Korea09:17
RST38hDoc: Or Hungary09:17
DocScrutinizermeh, for me it's just close enough09:17
johnxin the same way that Ukraine != Germany09:18
johnxheh, your sense of geography is almost ... American :>09:18
johnxyup. I wen there09:18
RST38hjohnx: To Ukraine or toGermany? =)09:19
DocScrutinizerI always thought Korea and China were neighbours, btw unlike Germany and Ukraine09:19
*** ayanes has joined #maemo09:20
*** ayanes has quit IRC09:20
*** ayanes has joined #maemo09:20
RST38hDoc: Don't worry it is fixable, just take over Poland (again!)09:20
*** geaaru has joined #maemo09:20
johnxone pair separated by quite a bit of water, the other by a country09:21
DocScrutinizerhmm, not as long as you don't specifically say "SOUTH Korea"09:21
RST38hjohnx: The correct wording in this case is "*currently* separated by a country"09:21
*** gomiam has joined #maemo09:22
johnxand for all you know the Chinese gov't might just start some project to fill in the East China Sea :P09:23
johnxDocScrutinizer, you specified it in the 'made in Korea' line09:24
RST38hwith Chinese you mean?09:24
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC09:24
*** tekojo has joined #maemo09:25
DocScrutinizertekojo: morning09:25
tekojomorning DocScrutinizer09:26
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo09:31
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC09:31
DocScrutinizerRST38h: we got any idea how many (in %) of the N900 were made in Hungary, and if there's and relation between "made in..." and e.g. USB-off issues?09:31
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo09:33
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC09:35
* DocScrutinizer idly mentions he'd be much more excited by Nokia announcing a N900i than by any anticipated N909:36
*** Wikier has joined #maemo09:37
*** Guest29841 has quit IRC09:37
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: troll :P09:37
luke-jrdid anyone here per chance just buy a Sandy bridge motherboard right before the recall?09:38
DocScrutinizerfix USB issue, add a dunno 1000MHz SoC with 512MB ram - profit09:38
DocScrutinizertested known design, no huge PV tests...09:39
luke-jrI'd want at least 1 GB RAM09:39
luke-jrand AFAIK changing the SoC is non-trivial09:40
luke-jrthey really should fix the keyboard too09:40
DocScrutinizerit actually is fsckng trivial09:40
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: OpenPandora lies then09:40
DocScrutinizermeh, openpandora09:40
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo09:40
johnxtrivial for a 5 person company is not the same as trivial for a company that spends Nokia's R&D budget09:41
DocScrutinizerTI won't even bother to sell them what they want if it were an existing SoC09:41
DocScrutinizerjohnx: exactly09:41
johnxthough thermal design might need to be revetted I'd imagine09:42
*** Cy8aer has joined #maemo09:42
johnxelse you get hilarious sheevaplug/guruplug-type issues :)09:43
DocScrutinizernah, prolly not09:43
johnxdouble the MHz on same generation silicon?09:43
*** Cy8aer has quit IRC09:43
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC09:43
johnxI'm assuming you're talking about another OMAP3/A8 part?09:43
DocScrutinizerTI can swap the OneNAND PoP on top of OMAP3430 easily, for a N900i09:44
DocScrutinizerand afaik there are OMAP3430 out in the wild that run @ 800MHz09:45
johnxand the OMAP3440 has the same TDP as the N900's OMAP3 (don't remember it's name)?09:45
*** chx_ has quit IRC09:45
*** FireFly has joined #maemo09:45
*** ppenz has joined #maemo09:45
johnxor rather the same TDP @100MHz that the N900's does at 550MHz (is it 600?)09:45
DocScrutinizerN900 has OMAP343009:45
johnxah, then I'm even more skeptical09:46
*** eMHa has quit IRC09:46
DocScrutinizerTDP is no issue as long as you got a sane management09:46
johnxsoo, potentially be in a situation where you kick the user out of 1000MHz mode after a while?09:47
DocScrutinizereven now it's not just the CPU that heats up the device, and you need to throttle for UMTS data TX heating issues more often than for OCing09:47
luke-jrjohnx: N900 can't even run at 600 MHz constantly.09:48
*** trx2 has quit IRC09:48
*** trx2 has joined #maemo09:48
johnxluke-jr, they didn't vet the design at that. Presumably some employees have had theirs overclocked for years now, testing it :)09:48
johnxAlso, do we have any known OC-related hardware failures documented?09:48
luke-jrjohnx: my understanding is that the chips are known to fail within a year if run constantly at 600 MHz09:49
DocScrutinizersee /topic09:49
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: exactly09:49
* johnx has topic set to hidden, looks09:49
*** larsivi has joined #maemo09:49
*** Svavel has joined #maemo09:49
luke-jrlol @ warranty 4 days ago09:49
luke-jras if Nokia has any obligation to honour warranty when you OC09:49
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo09:49
mecedamn I hate that my n900 is not under warranty any more...09:51
*** Svavel has quit IRC09:51
*** MR-SID has joined #maemo09:51
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC09:51
*** MR-SID has quit IRC09:51
*** kwek has joined #maemo09:52
johnxheh. well I stand corrected09:53
johnxguess they need at least a newer rev to hit 1000MHz stable :)09:53
johnxor better thermal management09:53
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo09:54
*** krutt has joined #maemo09:57
*** krutt has joined #maemo09:57
DocScrutinizerthey would need just the same thermal mgmt they got right now, it's sufficient for 600MHz, will as well deal with 800 or 100009:59
*** slonopotamus has joined #maemo10:00
RobbieThe1stAnyone used Mumble-server recently? I'm having trouble logging in as superuser10:00
DocScrutinizerI.E. limit time at full speed, throttle when overtemp is around the corner10:00
johnxDocScrutinizer, and the OC kernels just ignore this or ... ?10:01
DocScrutinizerjohnx: OC is killing by electromigration, not by overheating. A VERY common annoying misconception10:01
johnxDoesn't it get worse at high temperatures? Or am I misremembering?10:02
johnxAlso, doesn't overvoltage contribute as well?10:02
johnx(been like 10 year since I read that article on overclocking on anandtech or tomshardware or somewhere ...)10:03
*** Termana has joined #maemo10:05
*** norayr^off has quit IRC10:06
*** ab has joined #maemo10:06
*** ab has quit IRC10:06
*** ab has joined #maemo10:06
RobbieThe1stjohnx: Yea, both10:06
DocScrutinizertemperature is a factor, yes. Though not as much as current density (electron wind) is. Overvoltage doesn't apply really for OMAP anyway as SmartReflex has micro regulators for, like, every single gate on chip, so a higher core voltage applied just increases power dissipation of those regulators, while the gates themselves get the voltage they need for the particular clock10:06
johnxwow. that's crazy (WRT the micro-regulators)10:07
*** jpe has joined #maemo10:09
DocScrutinizerin such a system every weird effect is possible, even killing the CPU by UNDERvolting it10:09
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo10:09
*** andrenarchy has left #maemo10:09
DocScrutinizeronly TI knows exactly how their chips behave10:09
johnxfun times10:10
*** incar has joined #maemo10:11
*** SouBE has joined #maemo10:11
johnxah, though speaking of OMAP3@800MHz+512MB of RAM: I've almost convinced myself the next thing to save for is a Nook Color10:12
*** ag0ny has joined #maemo10:15
haltdef4.8" atom+win7 device arrives today :D10:15
johnxwooo ... eh10:15
*** tchan1 has joined #maemo10:15
*** incar has quit IRC10:17
*** trx2 has quit IRC10:17
*** tchan has quit IRC10:17
johnxhaltdef, or were you referring to the Aava phones?10:17
haltdefviliv n510:18
*** gunBoat has joined #maemo10:18
*** chigga has quit IRC10:20
*** KMFDM has joined #maemo10:20
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC10:21
*** trx2 has joined #maemo10:22
*** villev has quit IRC10:22
DocScrutinizerWRT undervolting: imagine one gate output is delivering a degraded signal due to undervolting limiting the voltage range. Now this poor signal might cause a totem pole stage later in signal path to not properly switch from one state to the other, causing *both* transistors opening partially and creating a short from VDD to GND10:22
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC10:22
johnxfun times10:23
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo10:23
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo10:25
*** schasch has joined #maemo10:26
*** svillar has joined #maemo10:27
mybluevananybody know how to set up ssh-agent to persist between bash sessions on maemo?10:27
johnxuse screen?10:27
DocScrutinizerI'm not saying this is likely to happen, I just point to the fact only TI knows how to operate their chips safely, and when TI says "limit operation time @600MHz to 1000h" and also provides a certain voltage regulation profile, then who do those OC fools think they are to know better, and just suggest "undervolting to mitigate OC dangers"10:28
RobbieThe1stI'm pretty sure that no one believes that undervolting mitigates OC dangers.10:29
RobbieThe1stIt can't hurt, though - At the least, it will reduce power usage and heat.10:29
*** dvaske has joined #maemo10:30
DocScrutinizersee above epic length explanation why it doesn't10:30
DocScrutinizerand why it actually CAN hurt10:31
*** mk8 has joined #maemo10:32
RobbieThe1stHm... I wonder what my profile would be considered, then. It's about two clicks above the instability level, and it seems to work perfectly well at that10:33
RobbieThe1stAnd hey - sure, my profile may reduce the total life... but if it lasts two years I'll be amazed - mainly because I'm hard on the exterior of equipment10:33
johnxRobbieThe1st, did you read the topic? :)10:34
RobbieThe1stWhich one?10:35
johnxthe 'epic OC death' or whatever :)10:35
RobbieThe1stProbably not10:35
RobbieThe1stI've read the various wiki pages and the long OC topic, weighted it all appropriately, and made my decision months ago10:35
johnxshort read, 3 pages. guy killed it overclocking. Will have to see if Nokia fixes it for him10:35
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC10:37
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo10:37
*** retro|cz has quit IRC10:38
*** villev has joined #maemo10:38
*** gnuton has joined #maemo10:38
*** eMHa has joined #maemo10:40
RobbieThe1stJohnx: Sorry, I can't find the topic in question10:40
*** FireFly has quit IRC10:40
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo10:40
johnxEpic OC fatality:
*** infobot has quit IRC10:41
*** lxp has quit IRC10:42
*** jd has quit IRC10:44
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo10:44
*** avs has quit IRC10:44
*** mardi has quit IRC10:45
*** trx2 has quit IRC10:45
*** andre_ has joined #maemo10:45
mybluevangot it, you have to put the ssh-agent startup and environment variable stuff in .profile and reboot10:45
*** andre_ has quit IRC10:45
mybluevanthat way the child shells inherit it10:46
DocScrutinizermhm, that's how login and env is supposed to work10:46
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC10:47
mybluevanyeah, but I put it in .bash_profile first which I think messed it up10:47
ebzzryI'm sorry to butt in, but where does Modest store its data (the emails themselves)10:48
*** murrayc has joined #maemo10:48
Termanajohnx, not that they should10:49
mybluevanlooks like ~/.modest10:49
*** trx2 has joined #maemo10:50
ebzzrymybluevan: thanks10:50
johnxTermana, not saying they should, just interested to see the outcome of the thread in a 'watching a train wreck' sort of way10:51
*** achipa has joined #maemo10:51
*** achipa has joined #maemo10:51
*** dazo_afk is now known as dazo10:52
jonwilbah, still no sign of my N900 :(10:53
* SpeedEvil checks the fridge.10:54
SpeedEvilNope, not there.10:54
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC10:54
*** mikki-kun has quit IRC10:55
johnxSoo, I tried the 'incredibly uninspired blocky and dull theme' and I kinda like it. Does that make me a boring person?10:55
jonwilIf the Nokia warranty setup was as good as the Motorola warranty setup, I would have it back by now10:55
jonwilOnly reason I didnt stick with Motorola and buy a Milestone is all the anti-hacking crap Motorola uses10:57
*** Rarok has joined #maemo10:57
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC10:57
*** ebzzry has quit IRC10:57
jonwilHackers have been trying from day one and they STILL cant run a custom kernel on the moto phones :P10:57
*** l13tl3 has joined #maemo10:57
johnxwow. really?10:58
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo10:58
johnxI was sure they would have gotten it by now10:58
SpeedEvilIt's quite possible with todays hardware to make 'uncrackable' devices.10:59
SpeedEvilIt's just that generally the effort isn't put in, or not put in competantly.11:00
keriohardware encryption?11:00
SpeedEvilencryption is one aspect.11:00
SpeedEvilBut signing is a bigger one.11:00
*** millenomi has joined #maemo11:01
*** jhb has joined #maemo11:01
*** murrayc has quit IRC11:01
SpeedEvilFor example - if the processor boots from an internal ROM that will only accept a signed bootloader, and then that signed bootloader will only accept a signed kernel, and ... and it's all been done competantly - you're screwed.11:01
jonwilyeah thats the case for the Motorola phones11:01
SpeedEvilAt least unless you swap the processor.11:01
*** MadViking has quit IRC11:01
jonwilOn the Motorola Z6 (my previous phone) they did that11:01
*** kakashi_ has joined #maemo11:01
jonwilbut there were holes in the bootloader11:02
*** millenomi has quit IRC11:02
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo11:02
jonwilsomething to do with the interaction between the baseband processor and the main processor11:02
jonwilso those holes allowed self-compiled kernels11:02
jonwilbut for the Milestone, no-one has found a hole yet11:02
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC11:03
jonwilThats why I bought the N900, it has no such restrictions11:04
*** booiiing|clone has joined #maemo11:05
*** kuuntelija has joined #maemo11:05
* SpeedEvil points to the cellmo, bluetooth, wifi, gfx.11:05
SpeedEvilBut yes.11:05
*** trx2 has quit IRC11:06
*** zap has joined #maemo11:07
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo11:07
*** booiiing has quit IRC11:07
*** scoobertron has joined #maemo11:09
*** gnuton has quit IRC11:09
RobbieThe1stSpeedEvil: Well, the fact that the wifi can support packet injection with proper drivers makes it open enough, IMHO.11:09
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC11:12
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo11:12
*** florian_kc has quit IRC11:12
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo11:12
*** trx2 has joined #maemo11:13
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:13
*** Natunen has joined #maemo11:15
mybluevanwhen did pack injection come along?11:15
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo11:16
SpeedEvilRobbieThe1st: In some ways yes. But for example, it would be nice to be able to fix some peoples issues ith powersave - or even get more detailed debug as to what's going on - with custom firmware.11:16
RobbieThe1stah, true11:16
*** amigadave has joined #maemo11:17
*** slonopotamus has quit IRC11:17
*** trx2 has quit IRC11:17
SpeedEvilThere are generally valid cases for opening most bits of hardware - even if it seems not at first glance. Of course, just because something is open does not mean that people will be interested enough to develop stuff in a timely manner.11:18
SpeedEvilEnough people.11:18
SpeedEvilFor example - the remaining openmoko distributions are interesting, and would have been compelling if they'd existed 3 years ago. But it's a relatively few people working on them, so progress is slow.11:19
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC11:21
*** mikki-kun has joined #maemo11:21
*** ptl has quit IRC11:23
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo11:24
*** Rarok has quit IRC11:25
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo11:25
*** mikkov has joined #maemo11:26
*** mikkov has left #maemo11:27
*** ptl has joined #maemo11:29
*** Termana has quit IRC11:30
*** trx2 has joined #maemo11:33
*** psycho_oreos has joined #maemo11:35
*** ptl has quit IRC11:36
*** gnuton has joined #maemo11:36
*** tackat has joined #maemo11:37
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC11:39
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo11:40
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC11:43
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo11:43
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo11:45
*** zap has quit IRC11:46
*** krutt has quit IRC11:47
*** MadViking has joined #maemo11:48
*** Sargun has quit IRC11:51
*** petrux has joined #maemo11:53
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC11:55
jonwilThe problem with the OpenMoko stuff and the Freerunner is that the hardware was obsolete even before it went into production.11:56
jonwilThe N900 on the other hand has good hardware IMO11:56
keriohaha what?11:57
kerioit grinds to a halt if you do a tiny bit of IO11:57
psycho_oreosthough mind you openmoko didn't have the budget like nokia had11:57
*** krutt has joined #maemo11:57
SpeedEvilThe problem with OM was software, not hardware.11:57
*** ptl has joined #maemo11:58
*** krutt has quit IRC11:58
*** krutt has joined #maemo11:58
psycho_oreosits more or less the same issue with n900 isn't it? :)11:58
SpeedEvilIn xmas 2007, they could have had a working functional phone stack with X/gtk. It was not very pretty, but it basically worked.11:58
SpeedEvil(based on the march 2007 software stack)11:58
jonwilThe FreeRunner isn't even quad band GSM, let alone EDGE or 3G11:58
jonwilit has no 3G whatsoever11:58
jonwilI mean 3D11:58
psycho_oreosagain it was budgeting constraint :)11:58
SpeedEvilThey then went and changed the software stack several times to make it 'shiny', and did the same with the hardware - that got delayed, and turned out to be not great.11:59
jonwilI think the real problem for FreeRunner people was finding someone willing to let them have the hardware they wanted and to make things open enough11:59
psycho_oreosand again n900 also failed in that path12:00
SpeedEvilIn another universe, they bugfixed the neo1973, and just sold the damn thing with a working phone stack, some basic apps, and little else.12:00
psycho_oreosnot everything inside n900 was open12:00
SpeedEvilAnd use the funds to polish.12:00
SpeedEvilAnd then sold lots more.12:00
jonwilonly things on N900 not open on the linux side are the GPU and GPS AFAIK12:00
jonwilEverything else is open thanks to MeeGo12:00
kerioand the bme12:00
jonwilyeah BME12:01
kerioand rapuyama12:01
psycho_oreosthe other recurring problem with freerunner was also the fullMAC atheros wlan aka ar6xxx12:01
kerioand the camera firmware12:01
psycho_oreosfm transmitter12:01
psycho_oreosetc etc12:01
jonwilCamera and cellmo firmware (and bluetooth and wifi) run on separate CPUs12:01
keriooh you mean just the software12:01
psycho_oreosiirc stskeeps had quite an extensive list of proprietary components including software12:02
keriowell, half of the gps runs on rapuyama, afaik12:02
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo12:02
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC12:02
jonwilWhat I am talking about with closed GPS is that Nokia hasnt documented12:02
*** valerius has quit IRC12:02
jonwilhasn't documented the isi/phonet calls for GPS12:02
jonwilwhereas for many other parts of the cell modem, they have documented it through ofono12:02
jonwiland the n900 driver in ofono12:02
jonwilThats for maemo, meego is a lot more open12:06
*** hannesw has joined #maemo12:06
psycho_oreoscorrect but when you were talking about n900 I thought you were referring to its base OS not the new platform which wasn't included as standard on n90012:07
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC12:09
jonwilFor GPS, hopefully Nokia can publish the specs for the isi/phonet GPS calls. Someone (I forget who) was going to talk to the right person at Nokia. Worst that can happen is that we get a "no, that information wont be made public12:09
jonwilor no response12:09
*** valeriusN has quit IRC12:10
*** niko has quit IRC12:10
johnxnah. the worst response is: "we plan to get around to it soon."12:10
*** ptl has quit IRC12:10
psycho_oreosand never materialises12:10
johnxthen to have that fall through the cracks, thus removing motivation for someone to reverse engineer it12:10
jonwilCan you point me to an example of "12:10
*** wazd has joined #maemo12:10
jonwilof "we plan to get to it soon"?12:10
*** l13tl3 has quit IRC12:10
*** niko has joined #maemo12:11
johnxthe requested open sourcing of a ton of stuff from the Maemo3/4 days12:11
johnxmight just be my imagination, but I think they've been better lately12:12
johnxI don't think they ever claimed they'd open BME12:12
*** valeriusN has joined #maemo12:14
jonwilLooking at the list of closed meego-on-n900 packages here there seem to be logical reasons for most of them remaining closed12:14
jonwilBME has been discussed before12:14
jonwilditto SGX12:15
johnxyup, that's always been straightforward12:15
*** swc|666 has quit IRC12:15
johnxlike I said, they've been better in the N900 era12:15
johnxbut I also haven't been hacking at system-level stuff on the N90012:15
*** petrux has quit IRC12:15
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo12:16
jonwilonly items there that I question the need to keep closed would be the pulseaudio bits, the sysinfod bits, wl1251-cal and maybe libcal or the -dev package for libbmeipc12:17
*** valerius has joined #maemo12:19
*** ptl has joined #maemo12:19
johnxso then the situation is much better than it used to be :)12:19
johnxI'm happy to be wrong :)12:19
jonwilactually, cloning libbmeipc isnt hard, its knowing all the different messages that get sent to BME via libbmeipc12:19
johnxI should mention the situation is better this time around because we have people like you who are happy to roll up their sleeves and jump in :)12:21
DocScrutinizer51meh, bme requirement specs are no way reasonable to keep closed as well12:22
*** petrux has joined #maemo12:23
jonwilwell if we had the libbmeipc source or even -dev package, we would know everything we need to know to build a replacement BME12:23
jonwilwell everything we need to know to make the replacement compatible with the real thihng12:23
DocScrutinizer51and generally Nokia still doesn't really *push* openness. It's more like they tolerate they have to deal with it for linux12:24
*** petrux has quit IRC12:25
DocScrutinizer51they still think they can differentiate via software12:26
jonwiltop of my wishlist for openness would be libbmeipc-dev package, info on ICD policy plugins (preferably code for the stock plugins), info in the IncomingCBS dbus signal and info on the isi/phonet calls for GPS12:26
DocScrutinizer51isi cmt API (a)gps specs, isi cmt SMSCB specs12:27
jonwilwell SMSCB would be covered by the IncomingCBS signal12:28
jonwileverything seems to be in place if someone was able to hook up to that signal and do something with the actual messages12:28
DocScrutinizer51full datasheet of BB5 rapuyama interfacing12:29
DocScrutinizer51jonwil: incoming smscb must get enabled by a command to cmt12:29
DocScrutinizer51the gsm stack changes to an other operation mode12:30
jonwilwell in that case there must be something sent via DBUS to csd-sms plugin12:31
jonwilthats the most logical answer12:31
DocScrutinizer51so you have to tell cellmo chip 'please enable smscb'12:31
jonwilI cant find anything in ofono that handles "enable SMSCB" as such12:31
jonwilor sends such an "enable" packet12:32
DocScrutinizer51yes, maybe. if that's even implemented12:32
DocScrutinizer51see that the point12:32
*** MR-SID has joined #maemo12:34
*** Svavel has joined #maemo12:35
jonwilThere are docs at
jonwilAnything not on ofono is likely to be in there12:35
jonwilbtw, I am sure someone said they were able to see Cell Broadcast messages comming into csd-sms and that the function triggering the IncomingCBS signal was being called12:37
jonwilcant remember who12:37
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo12:38
*** lizardo has joined #maemo12:39
*** chx has joined #maemo12:43
DocScrutinizer51I know these specs. they are .... err12:45
DocScrutinizer51that's why I never bothered to check if they have info about how smscb or gps is supposed to work12:46
jonwilnothing about GPS, definatly info about CBSMS12:49
*** zap has joined #maemo12:49
*** divan has joined #maemo12:51
*** trx2 has quit IRC12:54
*** ohwhyme has joined #maemo12:57
*** trx2 has joined #maemo12:58
*** chx has quit IRC12:59
*** blackthorne_ has joined #maemo12:59
*** blackthorne_ has joined #maemo12:59
*** trx2 has quit IRC13:00
*** chx has joined #maemo13:02
*** gunBoat has quit IRC13:03
*** blackthorne has quit IRC13:03
*** blackthorne_ is now known as blackthorne13:03
*** edisson has joined #maemo13:04
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC13:05
*** svillar has quit IRC13:07
*** netepal has quit IRC13:07
jonwilEverything I have seen inside the n900 stack indicates that CBSMS SHOULD work if we can find out how to talk to the dbus events exported by csd-sms13:07
jonwilevents, signals, methods, whatever it is13:07
jonwilall we need for GPS on N900 is the isi/phonet GPS calls13:08
* SpeedEvil wants psuedoranges.13:09
jonwilpsuedoranges is?13:09
*** netepal has joined #maemo13:10
*** MacDrunk has quit IRC13:10
*** gnuton has quit IRC13:12
*** gnuton has joined #maemo13:18
SpeedEviljonwil: The raw relative ranges between the GPS and the satellites.13:19
SpeedEviljonwil: Using this (and other info) you can - with the aid of another local reciever - correct position to within a meter or so13:20
SpeedEviljonwil: Also - if you have more info to feed into the GPS - for example an accellerometer - then bundling that data in with the raw range data can make a much less noisy position solution.13:20
*** tekonivel has quit IRC13:21
*** tekonivel has joined #maemo13:21
*** etrunko has joined #maemo13:24
*** Rarok has joined #maemo13:27
jonwilI suspect psuedoranges would require support in the cellmo firmware13:27
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC13:27
kerioi read that as pseudo oranges13:27
jonwilthats assuming the GPS chip can do it in the first place13:27
SpeedEviljonwil: yes, they would.13:28
RobbieThe1stYet again were back at the Proprietary vs OSS debate. Proprietary firmware is fine... Until it stops doing what you want.13:28
*** Ssspeq has joined #maemo13:29
jonwilproprietary firmware is a fact of life when you are dealing with cellular standards like GSM, GPRS, UMTS etc13:29
*** ohwhyme has quit IRC13:31
*** Titogelo has joined #maemo13:32
Shadikkakerio: Like, say, a mandarin orange?13:32
*** compengi has left #maemo13:32
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo13:33
*** Malin_ has joined #maemo13:35
DocScrutinizerdarn, pdued oranges13:39
DocScrutinizerpsued even13:39
*** `Ika_Musume has joined #maemo13:41
*** chx has quit IRC13:41
*** ayanes has quit IRC13:41
`Ika_Musumehumm, can i use my n900 as webcam/mic for pc?13:41
DocScrutinizerproprietary firmware is a fact for all peripherals (chips) that have their own 'embedded' cpu13:41
DocScrutinizerI think there's been a wiki page about that, or maybe a tmo thread13:42
`Ika_Musumelink pls13:43
DocScrutinizerthough not exactly what you call webcam usually13:43
*** azkay has joined #maemo13:43
azkayO hi13:43
`Ika_Musumewell n82 had an app for it13:43
DocScrutinizeras in 'it's not a USB attachable peripheral'13:43
`Ika_Musumesame for n82 it was bluetooth13:44
DocScrutinizer...that will register to host as webcam13:44
*** sulx has quit IRC13:44
*** bigbrovar has joined #maemo13:44
*** sulx has joined #maemo13:44
DocScrutinizeryou can stream video data over IP, via e.g gstreamer (note the name!), or probably also remote mount to some device on maemo /dev/video, or vlc, whatever13:45
*** blackthorne has quit IRC13:45
`Ika_Musumevlc for maemo?13:46
`Ika_Musumevideolan right?13:46
mecehey how does one go about making these pro files portable? I use bits of Venemos notification thingamagig and the pri file for that looks like this:
mecewhich is not portable13:46
*** Termana has joined #maemo13:47
*** andrenarchy has joined #maemo13:48
*** andrenarchy has left #maemo13:48
azkayAnyone had success with the USB networking wiki over linux?13:48
*** svillar has joined #maemo13:49
psycho_oreosUSB networking with linux yes13:50
DocScrutinizerRobbieThe1st: proprietary firmware is - a part of a periph subsystem. It's fine as long as the subsystem works as defined and "sold". If it doesn't, well then go for a better peripheral, or ask the manufacturer of that particular peripheral to fsckng fulfill the contract13:50
*** chx has joined #maemo13:50
*** krutt has quit IRC13:51
*** LjL has joined #maemo13:53
azkaypyscho: Think you can help me out? Ive been trying to get it working for the past 3 and a half days. Ive had it working twice and left it alone, next day its stopped working completely.13:53
azkayRunning Arch on my laptop, was connecting with networkmanager as someone suggested to me on the arch channel13:53
azkaythought maybe it was the n900, reflashed it over an hour ago and no change, ive tried restarting networkmanager on arch, ive tried reinstalling, deleted the old settings and reinstalling13:54
psycho_oreosI've toyed around with getting USB networking to work with arch but had failed a few times. It works well under ubuntu however13:55
azkayThe only way I can get the laptop to connect over usb, is if I give usb0 a static ip via networkmanager, which works (sort of), but if I do that it kills the wifi connection on the laptop, no idea why.13:55
azkayOh, damn13:55
*** chx has quit IRC13:55
psycho_oreosahh that's easy13:55
azkayI wouldnt really care as much, but ive been setting up this laptop since monday and im going to bali on tuesday, looking at the progress ive made, everytime I fix something, something else goes wrong13:56
psycho_oreosit kills the connection is because of multiple default gw are defined, you just have to erase the one that sets up USB networking with n90013:56
*** netepal has quit IRC13:56
psycho_oreosand yeah the usual USB networking wiki page recommends static IP anyway :)13:56
DocScrutinizer51RobbieThe1st: you'd not bitch about opensourcing the controller code of your SATA HDD, even if it fails to support SATA3. You either flash a new firmware which comes as a blob from manuf, or you simply swap the HDD for a better one, on warranty13:57
*** chx has joined #maemo13:57
*** svillar has quit IRC13:58
* SpeedEvil reserves the right to bitch about _everything_.13:59
* SpeedEvil wants open-source microwave oven controllers.13:59
azkayoh man13:59
DocScrutinizer51look, quite frequently you'd not understand a single byte of the opened code anyway. Odds are it comes in assembler gibberish, for a processor you never heard about, and is accessing registers to do things you hafe no clue what they are13:59
azkayPyscho, you're my hero.13:59
*** arno0ob has quit IRC14:00
psycho_oreosazkay, that's an easy fix :) interesting how you got it working with networkmanager, I've been trying to get it to work with netcfg under arch but it fails14:00
azkayI was originally using wicd for my wireless because it was the first thing I could get working, couldnt get network manager to work14:01
azkaywent through and uninstalled wicd14:01
azkaythen I yaourt networkmanager network-manager-applet gnome-keyring14:02
azkayedited a few stuff in the rc.conf, I think that was pretty much it then14:02
psycho_oreosI've always used netcfg for both wired and wireless.. but the thing doesn't work well with n900 via USB networking, kinda pissed me off but oh well14:02
azkayI decided to finally stick with linux, for awhile anyway. Got this laptop for $300, had W7 on it for 2 days then convinced myself to try linux again, every previous time ive tried I got angry and got rid of it after the first day. Slowly getting somewhere.14:03
*** BCMM has joined #maemo14:04
azkayalso, its an awesome laptop. Cant believe I found it for $300, bahaha.14:04
psycho_oreosthen again you're using arch, that could be a given why :)14:04
*** ptl has quit IRC14:04
*** ptl has joined #maemo14:05
*** trupheenix has quit IRC14:05
azkayEvery other time I used debian, person I was talking to was using arch, so I decided to try it out14:06
azkayoh well, atleast ive learnt a few more things over the past few days and not broken anything more than usual14:06
azkayNext on the todo list, get gstreamer to stream the camera over at decent quality14:07
azkayall the examples ive seen posted end up looking pretty terrible14:08
*** edisson has quit IRC14:08
*** kuuntelija has quit IRC14:10
*** svillar has joined #maemo14:12
*** markinfo has joined #maemo14:12
*** lindi- has joined #maemo14:14
DocScrutinizerjoin forces with `Ika_Musume14:14
DocScrutinizer[2011-02-04 12:41:53] <`Ika_Musume> humm, can i use my n900 as webcam/mic for pc?14:15
markinfohi. I have new n900. I have setup Skype and SIP phone account - but where are the applications that can be used with this accounts?  For example where are displayed active skype contacts or how to call over sip phone?14:15
DocScrutinizercall over sip phone: pen dialpad, select service "sip" on top14:15
*** baraujo has joined #maemo14:15
*** FIQ has quit IRC14:16
DocScrutinizerskype - nfc, it's EVIL abd I don't use it, esp not on a mobile device14:16
markinfowell - but is it possible to chat with the people on skype?14:17
*** setanta has joined #maemo14:18
alteregomarkinfo: on the N900? Ye14:18
DocScrutinizerfor calls via SIP you have to checkmark the option "use for phonecalls" in setup of that sip account14:18
villagermarkinfo: you use the normal contact and sms apps to find your voip contacts14:19
DocScrutinizerI'm not sure this applies to skype14:19
villagerI think it applied to skype last I checked14:19
DocScrutinizeras mentioned above, skype is EVIL and I discourrage you to use it. It's a betry killer anyeay14:20
villager(but been a while, can't remember for sure)14:20
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo14:21
*** FIQ has joined #maemo14:22
markinfowell SIP works ...but where are online people on skype account, I can chat with them?14:24
*** infobot has joined #maemo14:26
DocScrutinizerI have to admit I never even clicked on that skype icon14:26
*** marciom has joined #maemo14:26
villagermarkinfo: like I said... the regular contacts and sms app (contacts/conversations), just like the regular phone14:27
markinfoit is a bit chaotic - at least for newcomers "New IM" a nd then are all contacts mixed .14:28
villagerand like the others said14:28
DocScrutinizerI abandoned skype when they finally managed to get ALSA support, and it turned out the idiots used a hardcoded "default" audio device, so I wasn't able to redirect audio to the dedicated headset audicard on my x8614:28
DocScrutinizerand since ebay bought them for $$*10E9, they are invisible for me14:29
*** mairas has quit IRC14:29
markinfothat's why I have SIP provider. ...but anyway - most of users does not see the problems behind skype technology.14:30
DocScrutinizeryou will however - *definitely*. It's going to suck your battery empty in a matter of hours14:31
villagermarkinfo: you can always put the contacts for your friends on a desktop, then you can see on that desktop which one of them is online...14:31
lindi-I don't use skype but I have to admit that SIP is not very nice14:31
* jonwil hates Skype14:31
* jonwil hates eBay too and PayPal14:31
*** jonwil has quit IRC14:31
*** TeringTuby has joined #maemo14:32
markinfowhat is not "nice" on SIP?14:33
*** hannesw has quit IRC14:33
DocScrutinizerskype isn't optimized for energy conservation - the whole concept of skype is based on the idea of abusing your system and internet bandwidth to relay calls for other parties14:33
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo14:33
villagerI only configured skype because of a couple of friends... not using it otherwise...14:33
DocScrutinizerthat's irrelevant14:33
villagerthat wasn't an answer14:34
DocScrutinizerthat wasn't a question either14:34
*** eijk has joined #maemo14:34
lindi-markinfo: 1) it's a fairly large standard and clients tend to only implement small part of it 2) it kind of assumes an internet with no firewalls or nats (you can workaround them to some extent but it is hard to automate)14:34
villagerit was a "me too" for "I don't like skype"14:34
DocScrutinizerand mine was a "it will kill your battery no matter why you enabled it"14:35
lindi-markinfo: part "1)" includes things like encryption, call forwarding, chat14:35
lindi-markinfo: and also that almost all clients tend to have their own SIP stack instead of using some more generic library for it14:36
villagerDocScrutinizer: like I said, that wasn't an answer... I wrote my line without even seeing yours14:36
DocScrutinizerso what?14:36
villagerDocScrutinizer: it just annoys me that you're talking to me as if I had said a word about the battery14:37
DocScrutinizerI wrote my comment to that line without even bothering if it's a question, a rant, or whatever14:37
lindi-markinfo: SIP is pretty ok for replacing analog phones in an office LAN14:37
DocScrutinizervillager: what makes you think I talked to you?14:37
lindi-markinfo: but there too the phone manufacturer has their own proprietary solution for address book14:38
villagerDocScrutinizer: okay, who?14:38
DocScrutinizervillager: not ok, what?14:38
yacc markinfo: Well, SIP is not exactly a friendly protocol overall, e.g. it's one of the NAT-unfriendliest protocols, (one that comes that is worse would be PPTP, ...)14:38
markinfohm - and SIP with IPv6 ?14:39
villagerDocScrutinizer: who were you talking to when you said "that's irrelevant"?14:39
DocScrutinizerI'm not inclined to argue with you, so why do you start nagging about that?14:40
DocScrutinizervillager: this is a public channel14:40
villagerDocScrutinizer: you implied that you weren't talking to me - is it not reasonable to ask who, then?14:41
*** netepal has joined #maemo14:41
DocScrutinizerif you don't get to whom something is addressed, odds are it's not been addressed to you14:41
villagerDocScrutinizer: and you feel it's easier to argue and evade the question than to simply answer it and prove me wrong?14:41
DocScrutinizervillager: and honestly, that's an utterly silly and useless conversation14:41
villagerDocScrutinizer: yes, that was my point14:42
DocScrutinizerI feel it's easier to ignore you completely14:42
*** chx has quit IRC14:43
keriobut you can't! you're an op14:43
kerioyou can't ignore people14:43
*** `Ika_Musume has quit IRC14:43
*** sar3th|away is now known as sar3th14:44
DocScrutinizerSIP should be rather fine with IPv614:44
DocScrutinizerand honestly SIP isn't as bad as lindi- and yacc claim14:45
*** jhb has quit IRC14:45
yaccDocScrutinizer: yeah because IPv6 is meant to be NAT-free ;)14:45
DocScrutinizerit's just usually porly implemented14:45
lindi-DocScrutinizer: but ipv6 is not here yet14:45
yaccDocScrutinizer: Actually, have you tried to run SIP at some random WLAN with some random NAT-ing router? Not a very reliable experience, ...14:45
*** jhb has joined #maemo14:46
DocScrutinizerand it actually doesn't play nice with NAT14:46
*** chenca has joined #maemo14:46
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo14:46
DocScrutinizerbut that is a common problem for all services you offer on your box14:46
villagerDocScrutinizer: well, the easiest would have been to not answer my lines, since they were not intended for you to answer... yet you insisted on arguing with me largely irrelevant points for no reason, when I gave several reasons not to argue because I had not disagreed with you... I simply don't get it, why do you enjoy arguing so much, then?14:47
yaccDocScrutinizer: So if you just happen to be on one of these common networks where all devices have visible valid IP addresses, you are fine. (Well, visible valid IP addresses from the PoV of your PBX/SIP provider), ...14:47
DocScrutinizeryacc: still it worked like a charm for me, for ~3 years14:47
lindi-DocScrutinizer: also afaik SIP has some "Call-ID" fields that are free form strings with no upper limit in the standard. that makes connection tracking kernel space tricky14:47
yaccDocScrutinizer: Well, it was a PITA to setup even on my home WLAN, ...14:47
lindi-DocScrutinizer: using something like 64-bit identifier would have been nicer14:47
lindi-DocScrutinizer: so that you don't need to strcmp() for every SIP packet ...14:48
lindi-yep SIP does not work to my SIP provider with my WLAN for some reason. it is double-NAT which might have something to do with it but it's hard to debug since I can't see what's on the other side of the outer nat14:49
DocScrutinizerlindi-: how's that going to matter? SIP data volume for a call are some few hundered bytes, to establish and tear down the call. The rest is RTP14:50
lindi-DocScrutinizer: it'd be a lot easier to be able to use fixed lenght identifier14:50
lindi-anyways, my notes on setting up SIP quickly and painlessly are at
DocScrutinizerthe main problem of SIP is it's doing things *right*, I.E. tries to establish a point2point 2way connection between the 2 peers of a call14:52
*** chx has joined #maemo14:52
lindi-DocScrutinizer: depends on who you ask :)14:52
DocScrutinizerwhile skype for example is using relays whenever needed, so you don't have the NAT issue14:52
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I'd very much like to have a more general purpose transport than IP14:53
DocScrutinizereven more general purpose than IP? o.O ;-P14:53
lindi-DocScrutinizer: a library that'd just have "send_data_to("", buf);"14:53
yaccDocScrutinizer: That's a very theoretical PoV, for the last decade or so, establishing a true P2P connection has been only of limited practical value.14:53
lindi-DocScrutinizer: and it'd then use whatever means it needs to use to send that buf to alice14:54
lindi-DocScrutinizer: be it ipv4, ipv6 or decnet :P14:54
lindi-DocScrutinizer: udp, tcp or HTTP proxy14:54
DocScrutinizeryacc: please elaborate14:54
DocScrutinizerlindi-: well, that's SIP ;-D14:55
yaccDocScrutinizer: Well, for at least the last decade we are living with NATing routers being standard. Not as in used by geeks, but by "put in" by ISPs by default at your Grandma's place.14:55
yaccDocScrutinizer: With most ISP standard setup, you get a NATed address even if you have exactly one PC at home, ...14:56
* SpeedEvil waves his static IP back and forth.14:56
DocScrutinizeryeah, and SIP mitigated that by introducing STUN, hosted NAT traversal (even including relays), ICE, and whatnot14:57
yaccDocScrutinizer: Just presuming that you can establish a direct TCP connection to a peer, without planning in a well working workaround that is there by default, is, well, not very practical.14:57
lindi-SpeedEvil: one static IP only helps if you don't move :)14:57
lindi-SpeedEvil: try using it while in cafe, library, university, bus14:57
DocScrutinizeryacc: check N900 SIP advanced setting: you'll find STUN there14:58
lindi-DocScrutinizer: yeah SIP tried a lot but it's not enough unfortunately14:58
yaccSpeedEvil, static IPs are bad, I cannot easily get a new IP either, and that sucks when trying to fetch something from rapidshare or similar services ;(14:58
markinfowhat about Accu for n900?   it seems that it last one day - it is also very small accu.14:58
DocScrutinizerlindi-: it is14:58
SpeedEvillindi-: vpn14:58
lindi-SpeedEvil: that only works for you, not for your grandma14:58
lindi-SpeedEvil: and it's very inefficient to relay all the traffic to your home14:59
DocScrutinizerlindi-: it's users at large that don't put the meassures to purpose correctly14:59
yaccDocScrutinizer: yeah, I had STUN support on my E61 too, and it still took enabling a STUN proxy on my router to make it work :(14:59
GeneralAntillesDamn, NOLO tries for about 10 seconds then dies.14:59
SpeedEvilI would be really, really surprised if my grandma required internet.14:59
lindi-DocScrutinizer: well STUN does not help if the only way out is through a http proxy14:59
GeneralAntillesThat's unfortunate.14:59
DocScrutinizeryacc: now that's completely off14:59
*** RobbieThe1st has quit IRC15:00
yaccDocScrutinizer: But it was so back than, one of the reasons I don't use SIP, I don't need it overly, got a practical mobile package, but it's just a PITA.15:00
*** renatofilho has joined #maemo15:00
markinfowhat about contacts on MSN and ICQ network? Is it necessary to use Pidgin?15:00
DocScrutinizeryacc: STUN "just works" with all but symmetric NAT (which never can work for p2p), and if your router has a SIP ALG that's fsckng broken, then how's SIP RFC going to fix that?15:01
yaccDocScrutinizer: Plus SIP via UMTS (because it's usually NATed, and even non-NATed providers do manipulate traffic, I've found) is about as reliable as roulette ;)15:01
lindi-DocScrutinizer: SIP RFCs are not going to be able to fix things anymore :(15:01
*** drj_cro has quit IRC15:01
*** BCMM has quit IRC15:02
lindi-DocScrutinizer: for example at our university all outgoing udp traffic and incoming tcp connections are blocked15:02
yaccDocScrutinizer: Notice that the broken router as you call it was OpenWRT, and for example Skype just worked. (Well, the common problem for Skype is audio device trouble. The common problem for SIP in my "support family" is how to get the stupid thing to connect).15:02
villagermarkinfo: you can install the conversation plugins to add them to your contacts/conversations same way as sip/skype, but I think I found that some of them slurped up even more battery power than skype did15:02
DocScrutinizerlindi-: so what?15:03
lindi-DocScrutinizer: stun uses udp?15:03
DocScrutinizeryacc: skype "just worked" because it's abusing other peers as relays15:03
lindi-DocScrutinizer: the free alternative could have that as an optional feature15:04
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo15:04
DocScrutinizerlindi-: yes, usually. Though I'm not sure if tcp-SIP would also switch STUN to tcp - it *should* though15:04
lindi-DocScrutinizer: do you want to debug this?15:05
DocScrutinizernot really, why should I15:05
lindi-DocScrutinizer: well I couldn't figure out how to make this work15:05
DocScrutinizermake what work?15:06
lindi-SIP calls from our university15:06
*** drj_cro has joined #maemo15:06
*** ppenz has quit IRC15:06
*** abner` is now known as abner15:06
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone15:06
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I have a SIP subscription from my ISP and ssh -X access to the university machine15:07
DocScrutinizerlindi-: see, if your traffic is blocked, then SIP is not supposed to work. Why should anybody bother to work around this. It's like asking to help on fraud15:07
lindi-DocScrutinizer: not supposed to work?15:08
markinfoThere is no something like systray on Maemo?  Or it is this Surface with 6 squares?15:08
DocScrutinizererr, actually the bar where closk is15:09
lindi-DocScrutinizer: if you put it that way then the problem with SIP is that network administrators do not support it enough15:09
lindi-DocScrutinizer: and this makes SIP unsuitable even if it is not SIPs fault15:09
DocScrutinizerSIP is not designed to work against network config, it's assuming a somewhat sane config15:10
*** mitsutaka has quit IRC15:10
*** GeneralAntilles1 has joined #maemo15:10
mikki-kunmarkinfo: i think there might be though a systray in the repos, but it is iirc not the best implementation15:10
lindi-DocScrutinizer: yeah but since that doesn't exists in many places it kind of isn't designed to work in nowadays networks :/15:10
DocScrutinizerthat's a rather weird notion15:10
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC15:11
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I understand somehwat what you are trying to say but it doesn't really help the users :/15:11
markinfohm - how to autostart applications - like pidgin?15:11
*** mairas has joined #maemo15:11
mikki-kunlindi-: how is the audio-routing working?15:11
*** mece has quit IRC15:11
lindi-DocScrutinizer: my problem with skype is that it is non-free, not that it workarounds "broken" networks effectively15:11
lindi-mikki-kun: hmm? on what hw?15:12
DocScrutinizerwell, would you suggest to include aircrack by default to all WLAN devices, "to help users" with the PITA of passphrases?15:12
mikki-kunon you ssh -X connection15:12
lindi-mikki-kun: I'm happy if I see voice data in tcpdump15:12
mikki-kunDocScrutinizer: how many know how to use aicrack? ;)15:12
DocScrutinizerthat's just a question of paying somebody to make aircrack as automated as skype is15:13
lindi-DocScrutinizer: our university admins are ok with using tcp to send arbitrary data15:13
DocScrutinizerso where's the problem then?15:13
DocScrutinizersymmetric NAT?15:13
*** croppa_ has joined #maemo15:13
lindi-DocScrutinizer: well do you want to debug this or not? ;)15:13
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I only know that it does not work, I hear no voice :P15:14
DocScrutinizeryou said "all traffic blocked"15:14
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I said that udp is blocked and incoming tcp connections15:14
*** compengi has joined #maemo15:14
DocScrutinizerlindi-: if you are willing to use twinkle and enable full trace, then do a few tests and capture a pcap, then I'm willing to look into it15:16
*** Diod has joined #maemo15:16
*** croppa has quit IRC15:16
*** marciom has quit IRC15:16
*** marciom has joined #maemo15:17
lindi-DocScrutinizer: I'll try15:18
*** chx has quit IRC15:18
DocScrutinizermarkinfo: you could use queen-beecon15:18
DocScrutinizerlindi-: fine. One very common problem (maybe even a flaw in that partucular STUNlib implementation) is the 'ping'-test to own IP. Many networks have local-loopback disabled, which means you can't reach your very own public IP though everybody outside your LAN can. STUNlib fails on this, detecting a false positive on symmetric NAT15:21
lindi-DocScrutinizer: "Log debug reports" y/n?15:21
markinfohow to search for some programm like e.g "queen-beecon"   ...there is no Text search window.15:21
markinfoin programm manager15:21
DocScrutinizerlindi-: log all15:22
DocScrutinizermarkinfo: simply start typing searchstring15:22
DocScrutinizerlindi-: mompls15:23
* GeneralAntilles1 sighs.15:23
GeneralAntilles1UPS is dead, too. Wonderful.15:23
*** GeneralAntilles1 is now known as GeneralAntilles15:24
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo15:24
*** Dialekt has quit IRC15:26
*** Venemo has joined #maemo15:27
GeneralAntillesHoly shit.15:28
GeneralAntillesMy September proto is living again.15:28
*** tekonivel has quit IRC15:28
*** tekonivel has joined #maemo15:29
*** diegohcg has joined #maemo15:30
GeneralAntillesHmm, what do I need to change to get it to use the MicroSD instead of the eMMC?15:31
*** Dialekt has joined #maemo15:31
*** marciom has quit IRC15:31
*** Wikier has quit IRC15:33
SpeedEvilboot to meego/15:35
GeneralAntillesVery funny.15:36
*** avs has joined #maemo15:38
markinfoi have installed Wi-fi signal applet - where can be added applets?15:39
*** Venemo has quit IRC15:40
*** beford has joined #maemo15:41
psycho_oreoson hildon-status-menu/15:42
*** lmoura has joined #maemo15:42
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC15:42
*** svillar has quit IRC15:44
*** chx has joined #maemo15:45
markinfobut it is not "add widget" ?15:45
markinfowhere is "hildon-status-menu"?15:46
*** gomiam has quit IRC15:46
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo15:47
*** Venemo has joined #maemo15:47
markinfoI have installed some Battery programs and now disappeared battery status completely.15:48
psycho_oreosyou probably need to reinstall that package, I believe you installed the advanced battery thingy15:48
markinfoIt was right of 3G symbol?15:48
psycho_oreoshappened to me before, reinstalling necessary apps worked15:49
*** marciom has joined #maemo15:50
*** Termana has quit IRC15:50
markinfoHm - I have denstalled "Advanced power" and the symbol of accu is back.15:53
*** celesteh has joined #maemo15:54
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo15:54
MohammadAGor you could reboot after installing it15:56
markinfoMohammadAG, it does not helped.15:56
markinfoHow to setup that nokia n900 connects automatically to WIFI if there is demand to network and  there is configured network and this network is present?15:56
Sc0rpiusSettings -> Internet connections -> Connect automatically -> WiFi15:57
Sc0rpiusand save your connection15:58
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC15:58
*** tekojo has quit IRC15:58
Sc0rpiusthough I have never tried it15:58
*** infobot has quit IRC15:58
markinfoI have my network configured already and there is "Automatically connect: WLAN", "Search Interval 10minutes",  "on accessibility change to wlan"  but it does not make any connection.15:59
markinfoit waits and must be manually connected.16:00
markinfoand there is a green check box on this connection.16:01
*** gnuton has quit IRC16:02
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC16:02
*** frade has quit IRC16:06
villagermarkinfo: well, "search interval 10 minutes" would mean it might wait up to 10 minutes before discovering it... did you wait that long?16:06
villagermarkinfo: also, does your wifi network work with the wlan power-save features that n900 will use by default?16:07
*** andre__ has quit IRC16:07
*** frade has joined #maemo16:08
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo16:08
markinfoi have have waited quite long - i will try 5minutes - and also othe wlan network later.16:08
*** chx_ has joined #maemo16:09
Sc0rpius10 minutes is way too long16:10
*** chx has quit IRC16:10
*** tackat has quit IRC16:10
*** tackat has joined #maemo16:10
*** xcv has joined #maemo16:11
*** Venemo has quit IRC16:11
*** xcv has quit IRC16:11
*** Venemo has joined #maemo16:12
*** GuySoft has quit IRC16:13
DocScrutinizerit *should* search for available alternative WLAN as soon as the present connection stalls. So 10 minutes is OK usually. It only means you'll swap from GPRS  to WLAN after max 10min, and it may take up to 10min after you come home til WLAN is detected&connected16:13
DocScrutinizerotoh WLAN scan eats quite a bit of power from battery, so you don't want to run this every 60s16:14
Sc0rpiusI suppose...16:15
*** edisson has joined #maemo16:15
Sc0rpiusbut I actually prefer to push a button (widget) in the desktop to connect to a specific WiFi network16:15
DocScrutinizerbtw I thought you're asking about how to switch on/off the "on accessibility change to wlan" thing. If you're interested: I got some buttons on desktop for this now16:16
*** lolloo has joined #maemo16:18
DocScrutinizermeh, here it is (to whom it may concern): gconftool-2 -s /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/change_while_connected -t boolean false16:18
DocScrutinizerand "true", obviously, to switch on16:18
*** mitsutaka has joined #maemo16:20
DocScrutinizeractually tailoring/tweaking queen-beecon so it doesn't look like mickey mouse doodoo was way more hassle than to find out about the gconf-key16:20
*** Sicelo has left #maemo16:21
lollooguys help appreciated, been a while trying to run mms:// on my N900, I couldnt get it to run, I read around ppl got it working, bit i couldnt! help please!!16:21
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo16:21
markinfois there a flash plugin for opera browser?16:22
*** valdyn has quit IRC16:22
*** mairas has quit IRC16:22
lolloomy mms links is video stream not audio ! mind you!16:23
lolloohow can I run it as video?16:23
*** Thierry has quit IRC16:24
*** psycho_oreos has quit IRC16:25
Trewaslolloo: that works with mplayer at least16:25
*** kwek has quit IRC16:25
lolloohow can you do that with mplayer?16:26
Trewaslolloo: run "mplayer mms://" in terminal16:26
lollooand then what should happen? it seems stuck nothing is showing up.16:29
*** briglia has joined #maemo16:29
*** chx_ is now known as chx16:29
Trewasworks for me (shows the video)16:29
lolloohow!? wow16:29
lolloothis is what I get16:29
lolloosolving for AF_INET6...16:29
*** beford has quit IRC16:30
lollooCouldn't resolve name for AF_INET6:
lollooNo stream found to handle url mms://
lollooomg how did it work for you so easily! amazing. am still trying but no go16:31
*** ZogG has quit IRC16:32
*** ZogG has joined #maemo16:32
*** valdyn has joined #maemo16:33
lolloowhat does these errors mean?16:34
lollooNo stream found to handle url mms://
*** Rarok has quit IRC16:35
*** Dialekt has quit IRC16:35
*** GuySoft has joined #maemo16:35
markinfohow to install flash plugin for opera browser?16:37
lolloowhat? did it work for you too?16:37
*** jhb has quit IRC16:38
lolloois it not working for me because am connected to wsireless network?16:41
markinfoeh  probably there is no support for flash in Opera.  ...But I have tested firefox 4.0beta and it plays html5 video an audio nice.16:41
lolloodo I need some kind of forwarding or something or open port?16:41
DocScrutinizerlolloo: Couldn't resolve name for AF_INET6:  is the relevant part I guess16:41
*** Chiku|dc has joined #maemo16:42
DocScrutinizerno clue what AF_INET6 is, sounds a bit odd16:42
lollooyes i tried smplayer also, gave me same message about AF_INET616:42
*** npm_ has joined #maemo16:43
DocScrutinizerI'd try to ping
lollooI tried VLC player too, but it wont show anything just hanged.16:43
Trewasactually that error is irrelevant, mplayer tries to resolve ipv6 address if ipv6 is enabled16:43
DocScrutinizermhm, thought it's IPv616:44
lollooshall I enable it? I am using custom kernel.16:44
DocScrutinizerhmm, that's maybe why16:44
*** sevard_ has joined #maemo16:44
markinfothere is no java plugin support in maemo browsers?16:44
lolloohmmm you mean I should use the normal kernel.16:45
DocScrutinizerprobably in custom kernel there's actually IPv6 support, but it's failing16:45
lollooaha true16:45
DocScrutinizerin normal kernel it just detects IPv6 not supported and happily jumps to IPv416:45
lolloocan I enable IPv6 ?16:45
DocScrutinizeryou should DISable it16:46
*** ckandeler has quit IRC16:46
markinfoit charges over USB very slowly - is it normal?16:46
*** avs_ has joined #maemo16:46
*** chigga has joined #maemo16:46
lolloohow to disbale it without using normal kernel? is there a terminal command to disbale IPv6?16:46
*** MoonTiger has joined #maemo16:46
*** MoonTiger has left #maemo16:46
DocScrutinizermarkinfo: sorry, what's the exact problem?16:47
markinfoif there is java plugin for browser.16:47
*** Chiku has quit IRC16:47
*** npm has quit IRC16:47
*** sevard has quit IRC16:47
*** rmrfchik has quit IRC16:47
DocScrutinizerlolloo: NB all I said is mere handwaving. Maybe it's completely unrelated to the whole IPv6 thing16:47
lolloofair enough16:48
markinfobut no such big problem if java is not supported - maybe support of html5 will be enough.16:48
*** ckandeler has joined #maemo16:49
lolloothere is a way to run java apps on N900, there some post in maemo talk about it16:49
Sc0rpiusin a perfect world when nothing but HTML5 exists, no flash, no java, no anything16:49
*** ckandeler_ has joined #maemo16:50
*** ckandeler_ has quit IRC16:50
lollooand how to install t , sarch for jdownloader posts. you should get the instruction how to java on N900.16:50
markinfowell - nokia n900 is very powerfull. But I had up to now nokia n810 and this is definetely better for handling. It is bigger and have larger keyboard.16:53
*** jo-erlend has quit IRC16:53
PhonicUKI'd love something like an N900, but with a higher resolution screen, slightly bigger keyboard, faster CPU and maybe a tad more RAM16:54
*** BCMM has joined #maemo16:54
PhonicUKnokia better get on the N1000 ;)16:54
alteregoHigh resolution screen? Similar size?16:54
PhonicUKwhy not, higher density screens exist16:55
*** drj_cro has quit IRC16:55
*** rm_you has quit IRC16:55
alteregoPhonicUK: there becomes a point when it's not worth it.16:55
*** rm_you has joined #maemo16:55
alteregoAnd I think 800x480 is pretty much there.16:55
PhonicUKindeed, but 960 by 640 would be nice16:55
PhonicUKbut indeed this is the least of my priorities16:56
PhonicUKmainly I just want the faster CPU and extra RAM16:56
chxbah, these feebles resolutions, 1920x1200!16:56
* chx runs16:56
alteregoI'd prefer a HDMI out with a higher res ..16:56
PhonicUKHDMI out would be nice16:56
PhonicUKsome of the standard 'consumer' handsets nokia do have HDMI out16:56
PhonicUKfrom Mini HDMI16:56
alteregoThe device res is perfect tbh, but a high quality output would be great16:57
PhonicUKi quite like the HDMI out on my netbook :)16:57
PhonicUKsince it can do 1080p playback16:57
*** avs_ has quit IRC16:57
chxi thought micro16:57
PhonicUKfull size16:57
PhonicUKprobably micro16:57
PhonicUKmini is pretty small though16:57
alteregoAnd out-the-box usb keyboard and mouse support.16:57
PhonicUKthat'd be cool, I could live with bluetooth instead16:58
PhonicUKi have a nice bluetooth mouse for my netbook16:58
alteregoYeah, bluetooth would be fine.16:58
*** avs has quit IRC16:58
PhonicUK<3 my netbook ^_^16:58
PhonicUKHP Mini 311c16:58
PhonicUKION chipset :D16:58
PhonicUKtweaked to be a full-on ION instead of an ION-LE (Turns out its just a software restriction)16:59
GAN900alterego, bullshit.16:59
GAN900More DPI is always worth it.16:59
PhonicUKyeah but for the cost/benefit - i'd be quite happy with what we have now16:59
PhonicUKwith just a bit more horsepower behind it16:59
BCMMalterego: meh, who really cares about out-of-the-box?17:00
PhonicUKi've used my bluetooth mouse while in easy debian17:00
PhonicUKthat was cool17:00
*** hardaker has joined #maemo17:00
BCMMit's a rarely-used feature. let users have the choice of whether to use disk space on it17:00
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:00
*** FIQ|n900 has joined #maemo17:00
alteregoGAN900: use a magnifying glass to view your images? :P17:00
*** ZogG has quit IRC17:02
*** TeringTuby has left #maemo17:02
*** ZogG has joined #maemo17:02
*** avs has joined #maemo17:02
*** avs_ has joined #maemo17:03
*** makulkar_laptop has joined #maemo17:03
GAN900alterego, resolution indepence and a PPI high enough so you can smoothly pixel double bitmaps.17:04
GAN900Ugh, gotta configure tab again.17:04
*** FireFly|n900 has quit IRC17:05
*** chx has quit IRC17:10
*** ebzzry has joined #maemo17:10
*** Wamanuz2 has joined #maemo17:10
*** noodles900 has joined #maemo17:12
*** ebzzry has quit IRC17:12
*** Wamanuz has quit IRC17:13
*** Venemo has quit IRC17:14
*** dvaske has quit IRC17:15
*** FireFly has joined #maemo17:16
*** mybluevan has quit IRC17:18
*** FireFly|n900 has joined #maemo17:19
*** Venemo has joined #maemo17:19
*** sevard_ is now known as sevard17:20
*** sevard has quit IRC17:20
*** sevard has joined #maemo17:20
*** larsivi has quit IRC17:23
*** amigadave has quit IRC17:24
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC17:24
*** celesteh has quit IRC17:24
*** chx has joined #maemo17:25
*** noodles900 has quit IRC17:25
*** Venemo has quit IRC17:26
*** trupheenix has quit IRC17:27
*** obarron|dx has joined #maemo17:28
*** trupheenix has joined #maemo17:28
*** BCMM has quit IRC17:29
*** schasch has left #maemo17:30
*** Necc has joined #maemo17:30
*** chx has quit IRC17:32
*** markinfo has quit IRC17:33
*** mybluevan has joined #maemo17:33
*** chx has joined #maemo17:34
*** jhb has joined #maemo17:36
*** chx has quit IRC17:37
*** chx has joined #maemo17:37
*** Titogelo has quit IRC17:39
*** croppa_ has quit IRC17:40
*** obarron|dx has quit IRC17:40
*** netepal has quit IRC17:46
*** celesteh has joined #maemo17:48
*** celesteh has joined #maemo17:48
*** valdyn has quit IRC17:52
*** villev has quit IRC17:53
*** infobot has joined #maemo17:54
jhbis there a list of all the dbus calls / apis for the standard apps?17:54
jhb(me just starts reading dbus docs)17:55
*** calvaris has quit IRC17:59
*** avs_ has quit IRC18:00
*** avs has quit IRC18:00
*** trx has quit IRC18:01
*** zap has quit IRC18:01
*** Ssspeq has quit IRC18:02
*** chittoor has quit IRC18:02
*** valdyn has joined #maemo18:02
*** nicu has quit IRC18:04
GAN900Oof, "Error loading new keyboard description"18:04
*** trx has joined #maemo18:05
*** jpe has quit IRC18:05
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo18:06
*** jhb has quit IRC18:07
*** chx has quit IRC18:07
*** jhb has joined #maemo18:08
*** Necc has quit IRC18:09
*** rcg has joined #maemo18:09
*** chx has joined #maemo18:09
*** trench has quit IRC18:09
GAN900Can somebody pastebin me the last two arrow key definitions from /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51 ?18:11
*** chx has quit IRC18:13
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo18:14
*** felipec has quit IRC18:15
*** Ssspeq has joined #maemo18:15
*** chx has joined #maemo18:16
*** MadViking has quit IRC18:17
*** GNUtoo|laptop has joined #maemo18:17
*** MadViking has joined #maemo18:17
*** MadViking has quit IRC18:18
*** ZogG has quit IRC18:20
*** Venemo has joined #maemo18:22
*** MadViking has joined #maemo18:22
*** netepal has joined #maemo18:22
*** kamui has joined #maemo18:22
*** ZogG has joined #maemo18:23
*** blackthorne has quit IRC18:24
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo18:25
*** Sicelo has quit IRC18:26
*** MadViking has quit IRC18:27
*** davyg has joined #maemo18:27
*** MadViking has joined #maemo18:27
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC18:28
*** jhb has quit IRC18:31
*** FIQ has quit IRC18:33
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo18:33
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo18:33
*** pcacjr has joined #maemo18:33
*** achipa has quit IRC18:35
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC18:37
*** Ssspeq has quit IRC18:37
*** colliery has joined #maemo18:38
*** lxp has joined #maemo18:39
*** FIQ has joined #maemo18:39
*** wazd has quit IRC18:40
*** ab has quit IRC18:40
*** lxp1 has quit IRC18:42
*** voldern has left #maemo18:44
*** sid__ has joined #maemo18:45
*** sid_ has quit IRC18:47
RST38h"When descending upon the carcass of the killed bear, the helicopter pilot failed handling the controls, allowing the bear to lead the score with 4 deaths."18:48
*** chx has quit IRC18:50
*** colliery has quit IRC18:50
*** PhonicUK has quit IRC18:52
*** Ssspeq has joined #maemo18:56
villagerGAN900: there's a copy of it at
GAN900villager, thanks.18:58
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC18:59
*** Svavel has quit IRC19:03
*** GNUtoo|laptop has quit IRC19:05
*** kuru has joined #maemo19:07
*** Venemo has quit IRC19:08
*** achipa has joined #maemo19:09
*** achipa has joined #maemo19:09
*** zap has joined #maemo19:18
*** ag0ny has quit IRC19:18
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo19:18
*** digitalsurgeon has joined #maemo19:20
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo19:20
*** digitalsurgeon has quit IRC19:20
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo19:21
*** arno0ob has quit IRC19:23
RST38hwell. moo.19:24
*** azkay has quit IRC19:24
*** b0unc3 has quit IRC19:24
*** thomasjfox has joined #maemo19:25
*** Venemo has joined #maemo19:26
*** sid_ has joined #maemo19:26
*** lardman has joined #maemo19:27
*** lardman has quit IRC19:27
*** lardman has joined #maemo19:27
lardmanevening all19:27
*** dRbiG has quit IRC19:27
DocScrutinizereven I ng19:28
*** sid__ has quit IRC19:28
*** FIQ has quit IRC19:30
*** FIQ|n900 has quit IRC19:30
*** crashanddie has quit IRC19:31
*** dRbiG has joined #maemo19:31
*** frade has quit IRC19:31
lardmanso OpenCL19:32
lardmanand more importantly implementations on SGX 5xx19:32
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo19:33
*** PhonicUK has joined #maemo19:33
lardmanI've seen some Nokia presentations, and from the ImgTech bumpf it is obviously possible, but is there anything usable about?19:33
*** eMHa has quit IRC19:34
*** ZogG has quit IRC19:38
*** ZogG has joined #maemo19:39
*** javispedro has joined #maemo19:39
lardmanjavispedro: you'll know about this type of thing19:39
lardmanand hi too :)19:40
javispedrohi there19:40
javispedrohmpf. never used it :P19:40
lardmannor have I, but apparently implementations for the sgx 5xx exist19:40
javispedroif they, I don't have them. I only have GL + VG here.19:40
lardmanyou've used opengl though?19:40
lardmanImgTech tout the SGX as having an OpenCL implementation, assuming you pay for it19:41
* lardman is doing CUDA stuff at work, wondering whether to move to OpenCL instead, and that made him think of mobile dev stuff and whether there were any applications for our hw19:42
*** lcuk has quit IRC19:44
javispedroas usual, this all depends on wheter you can convince TI/Nokia to give you the libs...19:44
javispedroafaik the sgx is capable of it.19:44
lardmanindeed, I was also thinking about looking at the old-school ways of mapping useful work into OpenGL code19:45
lardmannot that graphics isn't useful ;)19:45
javispedrothen there's some pdf around talking about the precisions the sgx uses in shader math, lemme google it19:45
javispedroah, it's on the SDK19:45
lardmanah ok I should grab that really19:46
javispedroyou have the imgtech n900 sdk?19:46
lardmanno is there a specific version?19:46
javispedrothere's a n900 specific one19:46
lardmanI've only got the N8x0 versions19:46
javispedroit's slightly older, but doesn't matter.19:46
lardmanok, I'm registered so I'll see if I can grab it19:46
*** _berto_ has quit IRC19:49
javispedrobtw, anyone coming to mwc?19:49
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC19:52
lardmanthanks javispedro19:52
*** b0unc3 has joined #maemo19:52
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo19:55
*** b0unc3_ has quit IRC19:56
*** trench has joined #maemo19:57
*** em has quit IRC19:58
* trip0 ran apt-get dist-upgrade and apt uninstalled everything...19:58
*** em has joined #maemo19:58
javispedrofirst lesson on apt on a n900: never run apt-get dist-upgrade while having extras-{devel,testing} enabled19:59
javispedrothere's just too many ... "mispackages" =)19:59
* GAN900 doesn't know why he's going to read Engadget comments on the MS/Nokia rumors.19:59
* lardman curses imgtec for not actually bothering to send him a password reminder19:59
trip0GAN900, don't do it19:59
trip0that rumor is the stupidest thing i've heard in a long time20:00
* javispedro types engadget.com20:00
javispedroyet another engadget rumour? =)20:00
trip0it'd be like saying: "Qt, yeah, you know... that thing that we are developing to unite the world...  Yeah, that's a bunch of crap.  Silverlight FTW!!!11"20:01
trip0engadget didn't start the rumor this time20:01
derfI don't know, this is Nokia20:01
derfThat actually sounds pretty plausible.20:01
javispedrowell companies make stupid moves from time to time, you know.20:01
trip0it came from an "Analyst"20:01
javispedroI still remember Palm buying Be Inc, then splitting it, then trying to get their OS designers to build a Web Browser.20:02
trip0idk, Qt's been the story for nokia for more than a few years now20:02
trip0that at least it pretty consistant20:02
javispedrofew years = 220:02
infobotwell, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update20:03
trip0sorry, just wanted the link :P20:03
infobotmethinks flashing is
javispedrotrip0: not to mention that Microsoft in the picture doesn't mean Qt no longer fits.20:05
trip0javispedro, wp7 bans opengl20:05
trip0idk if qt has a directX layer does it?20:05
*** Flipi|BNC is now known as Flipi20:05
javispedronot more than a few days work...20:05
* trip0 giggles20:05
javispedroin fact something that a hacker could do on his spare time =)20:06
trip0changing out an entire rendering system for something like Qt makes me shiver20:06
*** rm_work has joined #maemo20:07
javispedronot to mention that Ballmer would probably sell his grandmother to get WP7 on Nokia phones.20:07
trip0but still.20:07
trip0nokia won't go with wp7 for the same reason they won't go with android20:08
trip0they want to run the show20:08
javispedrowith the man that said that out of the company, I hope that is still the case.20:08
trip0they don't want google/microsoft to control their destiny20:08
*** thmarkus has joined #maemo20:09
compengihello all, does the wifi still having issues described on this link?
povbotBug 6615: Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use (Static IP?)20:09
javispedrowell it says "FIXED"20:10
trip0i can't for the life of me find a link to the pr1.3 firmware download20:11
*** Venemo has quit IRC20:13
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: problem is: nobody would buy Balmer's granny :-P20:13
trip0or Balmer20:14
compengiand no body faced something similar?20:14
*** tackat has quit IRC20:14
trip0javispedro +120:14
*** tackat has joined #maemo20:14
*** odin_ has quit IRC20:15
DocScrutinizerthe link is there:
GAN900"CanPeeWhilstStanding" predicted it months ago lol20:15
*** chx has joined #maemo20:17
* javispedro gets to practise his english formal letter skills20:17
javispedrolet's see20:18
javispedroTo whom it may concern...20:18
*** sid__ has joined #maemo20:19
*** dvaske has joined #maemo20:20
RST38hjavispedro, mooo20:20
RST38hjavispedro: Start it with Dear Sirs!20:20
*** trupheenix has quit IRC20:20
GAN900javispedro, "Towards whomsoever"20:20
*** sid_ has quit IRC20:21
javispedrotowards whomsoever? =)20:21
javispedromoo RST38h20:21
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC20:22
trip0n900 not returning from b0rkage...20:22
GAN900"Dear Sirs or Ma'am!" is good20:23
trip0seyz "Nokia" on the screen when plugging into usb (no usb icon).20:23
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo20:23
trip0just hangs out there for a while20:23
RST38hDear Robotic Overlords!20:24
trip0...screen flickers, amber light turns off.  nokia logo still remains20:24
RST38h0xE1 0x38 0xAA 0x00 0x3E20:24
trip0...screen flickers, amber light turns back on20:24
RST38hBest regards20:25
RST38h  Drone 12:AE:1E:3720:25
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC20:25
*** nicu has joined #maemo20:25
*** githogori has quit IRC20:25
trip0ahh, maybe my batter is too low20:27
*** odin_ has joined #maemo20:27
*** chx has quit IRC20:28
* trip0 swaps battery with other n90020:28
javispedroYours faithfully,20:29
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo20:29
trip0w00t, it's booting!20:30
trip0all my data should still be there right?20:30
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC20:30
RST38hYours internally20:30
* lardman worries about low batter20:30
lardmanI mean how will the fish and chips turn out?20:31
GAN900lardman, burnt.20:32
trip0probably not very good20:32
RST38hNot "burnt", "well done"!20:32
javispedroDear Robotic Overlords, I hereby announce that the fish and chips will turn out not very good. Yours internally, a battery.20:32
trip0data still lives!20:32
lardmantrip0: glad to hear it inspite of the burnt f&c20:33
lardmansorry, well done20:33
*** divan has quit IRC20:44
GAN900javispedro, clearly you have a future in letter writing.20:46
lardmanaaaargh, curse MATLAB's 1-based arrays20:46
*** isak has joined #maemo20:49
derfBlame FORTRAN.20:50
derfIt's all their fault.20:50
lardmanindeed, and the column-wiseness20:50
javispedroGAN900: it's all this channel's fault :)20:50
*** florian has quit IRC20:52
derfThe column-wiseness I am actually okay with.20:52
derfA lot of matrix algorithms really should operate on columns.20:53
lardmanconfusing for C though as that assumes rows, though it really depends how you do it in your head20:54
*** jhb has joined #maemo20:54
*** eMHa has joined #maemo20:55
derfWell, C and mathematics do not agree, but that's more C's fault.20:56
derfBut there's no excuse for 1-based indexing, even given mathematics, because then the language and the _machine_ don't agree.20:57
lardmanyeah, makes all sorts of things annoying20:57
lardmanIt's only taken me a day to move the MATLAB code to C, mainly as I wrote the MATLAB stuff as 0 based +120:58
*** tackat has quit IRC20:58
lardmanbut there are still issues, probably caused by for loop indicies20:58
lardmanagain a difference in how the for loop limits are calculated20:59
*** celesteh has quit IRC20:59
*** piggz has joined #maemo21:00
javispedroyou know, a company would probably get rich with matlab->c translator21:00
javispedroprobably already exists21:00
derfI solve this problem by writing it in C to begin with, but I undertand I am unusual in this respect.21:00
derfjavispedro: You can call Matlab code from C.21:01
derfIt is extraordinarily painful to set up, though, and still just as slow as Matlab.21:01
lardmanMATLAB is far easier to debug while testing your algos though21:02
piggzi sent my faulty n900 for had an fm transmitter....i got it back with basically new board/internals, and no fm it a firmware thing???21:02
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC21:04
*** JakDaRippa has quit IRC21:04
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo21:05
blackthorneanyone tried pyside with maemo?21:05
blackthorneTrying to make an hello world...21:05
lardmanpiggz: why do you think it has no transmitter?21:05
lardmanblackthorne: yes21:05
piggzlardman: no options in settings anymore21:05
*** kthomas_vh_ has joined #maemo21:07
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo21:08
blackthornelardman: can you make your code work on the simulator?21:08
lardmanpiggz: which image do you have flashed, some regions don't allow fm transmitters21:08
blackthornedid you designed it in some visual tool or manually?21:08
*** kthomas has quit IRC21:09
lardmanblackthorne: never used a simulator, just write it by hand21:09
piggzlardman: just what it came with, so probably uk...i used to have the global one21:09
blackthornelardman: do you have any source of guidance to write something like an hello world for maemo?21:09
lardmancheck, uk does now afaiu allow fm transmitters21:09
lardmanblackthorne: pretty much identical to the pyqt examples, just substitute the import line21:09
*** scoobert1on has joined #maemo21:10
lardmanotherwise there's some stuff on the pyside site, or in the repo at least (which has a web browsing function so you can see the code)21:10
piggzlardman: how do you check which region is on it....i checked the version which is 1.321:11
lardmanpiggz: I can't imagine that they took the transmitter out basically21:11
lardmanhmm, not sure21:11
lardmananyone else?21:11
* lardman heads for food, bbiab21:11
blackthornelardman|gone: you didn't had to replace QApplication by QtGui.QApplication21:11
blackthorneand things like that Qtcore.21:12
*** scoobertron has quit IRC21:12
*** thmarkus has left #maemo21:12
*** florian has joined #maemo21:13
*** florian has joined #maemo21:13
*** mece has joined #maemo21:20
*** Spookje has quit IRC21:21
javispedroMicrosoft to license S40 =)21:21
javispedro</more rumours>21:21
*** lsm5 has joined #maemo21:24
*** larsivi has joined #maemo21:26
*** Spookje has joined #maemo21:26
*** sar3th is now known as sar3th|away21:27
makulkar_laptopjavispedro, ru serious?21:28
*** lsm5 has quit IRC21:29
makulkar_laptopjavispedro, missed your next line ;)21:29
makulkar_laptopneed helP! I setup ubuntu on my laptop and i try to connect my n900 using21:29
makulkar_laptopsudo ssh root@
makulkar_laptopssh: connect to host port 22: No route to host21:29
*** Ulukai has joined #maemo21:30
*** lsm5 has joined #maemo21:30
*** n6pfk has quit IRC21:33
marciomblackthorne: this may help you:
*** n6pfk has joined #maemo21:34
*** javispedro has quit IRC21:35
*** dazo is now known as dazo_afk21:38
*** bigbrovar has quit IRC21:39
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo21:39
*** githogori has joined #maemo21:40
*** `Ika_Musume has joined #maemo21:41
*** jhb has quit IRC21:41
*** pcacjr has quit IRC21:41
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo21:42
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC21:44
*** blackthorne has left #maemo21:44
*** `Ika_Musume has quit IRC21:45
*** davyg has quit IRC21:46
MohammadAGmakulkar_laptop, Maemo 5? ifup usb0 in a root shell on the N90021:47
MohammadAGsee the wiki article on USB networking21:48
makulkar_laptopIm able to ssh on my desktop same device not on my laptop wihch i just installed ubuntu21:48
makulkar_laptopboth computers are connected on same LAN network21:49
MohammadAG192.168.2.15 is USB networking by default21:49
MohammadAGYour LAN network doesn't matter in this case21:49
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, how do i login to rootshell on device? su - complains21:51
MohammadAGinstall rootsh21:52
makulkar_laptopI havent set any rootpassword? what will be the default one21:53
MohammadAGthere isn't one21:53
MohammadAGinstall rootsh or openssh-server21:53
*** netepal has quit IRC21:54
MohammadAGrootsh gives you a root shell with `root`, openssh-server allows you to set a root password without rootsh21:54
makulkar_laptopbecause I can ssh from desktop for same device, it mean the USB is up and running?21:54
MohammadAGerr, if you can ssh into your device then you know your root password21:54
MohammadAGin that case, ssh root@localhost21:55
makulkar_laptopssh not found :(21:55
MohammadAGinstall openssh-client21:56
DocScrutinizeris the N900 USB connected to your desktop PC or to your laptop?21:57
makulkar_laptopDocScrutinizer, it works when i connect to desktop but not laptop. SSH login i mean21:57
*** sid_ has joined #maemo21:58
*** thomasjfox has quit IRC21:58
MohammadAG192.168.2.15 is USB networking, it won't work on two PCs at once21:58
DocScrutinizerwell, your desktop has a route to N900, your laptop doesn't21:58
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, oh! so I can delete .ssh/known_hosts from device?21:58
MohammadAGwhy would you do that?21:59
DocScrutinizeryou frequently want to do that21:59
makulkar_laptopi want device to connect to laptop. I dont care about desktop21:59
MohammadAGI edit mine21:59
MohammadAGthen connect the device's USB to the laptop and follow the USB networking guide21:59
*** sid__ has quit IRC22:00
*** florian has quit IRC22:00
DocScrutinizerI use ssh -o StrictHostKeyChecking=no -o UserKnownHostsFile=/dev/null22:00
*** lcukn900 has joined #maemo22:01
DocScrutinizermakulkar_laptop: you are aware that when you plug in USB N900 to desktop PC, then the ssh connection is via USB and has *nothing* to do with your possibly existing LAN?22:02
*** thomasjfox has joined #maemo22:02
DocScrutinizerI.E if you want to reach N900 from laptop, you need to plug the N900 USB to laptop22:03
MohammadAGthe N9 should have two USB ports to solve that issue22:03
makulkar_laptopDocScrutinizer, yeah. I mentioned about LAN because to convey IP address range are same. Device has some valid/invalid range22:03
MohammadAGalso useful if one USB breaks22:03
makulkar_laptopDocScrutinizer, I have. first I up the USB0 and then try to ssh to device on laptop which times out.22:04
*** kodomo_ has joined #maemo22:04
MohammadAGis the device connected to the laptop?22:04
MohammadAGvia USB22:04
makulkar_laptopDocScrutinizer, same thing when I reomve USB end from laptop and connect to desktop usb0 up and ssh works fine. I will get root password prompt22:04
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, yes22:04
MohammadAGfollow the USB guide22:05
*** Sicelo has quit IRC22:05
MohammadAGyou need some rules in /etc on the laptop22:05
makulkar_laptopAlso, it tries to mount to camera device fails to mount with "failed to lock" error22:05
MohammadAGyou lost me there22:05
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, can you give me wiki link for USB guide22:06
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, basically when  I connect device to desktop it mounts the device fine but not on laptop22:06
MohammadAGI'm on the N900, so can't check, but I remember the name was USB Networking so I'd guess
*** kodomo has quit IRC22:07
MohammadAGor not22:07
MohammadAGoh, small n22:07
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, almost right! just small n22:07
korhojoaImpressive skills there.22:08
infobothmm... usb-networking is, or
MohammadAGI wonder why ubuntu hibernates my laptop at 60% battery life22:10
MohammadAGthe battery meter shows percentage correctly22:10
DocScrutinizermaybe because ubuntu is BS?22:10
*** chx has joined #maemo22:10
MohammadAGinfobot, ubuntu22:10
*** swc|666 has joined #maemo22:10
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ubuntu is caca from this ass
MohammadAGerr, that changed from the one I remember22:11
MohammadAGnsfw too22:11
DocScrutinizeryou meant22:11
infobot[ubuntu] caca from this ass
DocScrutinizerhas changed?22:12
MohammadAGyes, it was something like22:12
infobot  See
DocScrutinizer~ubuntu MohammadAG22:12
* infobot lovingly explains to MohammadAG in a way that causes MohammadAG to weep with gratitude that MohammadAG must read the fine, friendly manual22:12
DocScrutinizer~debian MohammadAG22:13
* infobot tells MohammadAG to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!22:13
*** lolloo has quit IRC22:13
*** florian has joined #maemo22:13
*** florian has joined #maemo22:13
*** jpe has joined #maemo22:13
*** dan2003 has joined #maemo22:14
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC22:14
DocScrutinizerthere's no change in ~ubuntu22:14
DocScrutinizer~factinfo ubuntu22:15
infobotubuntu -- last modified at Tue Oct 25 18:33:34 2005 by sinplomo; it has been requested 12 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 3m 1s ago.22:15
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo22:15
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo22:15
*** me|kor has joined #maemo22:16
*** chx_ has joined #maemo22:16
dan2003Hi guys, im making a little homescreen widget which monitors a value (obtained via JSON from a server), I am comparing this value with some defineable limits and wish to sound an alarm when it is outside the safe area. I have managed to make a libnotify bubble work, i now wish to make it produce a sound - it must produce this sound eveb of profile is set to silent - this is imeperitve. What would be the best way to do this?22:17
thomasjfoxdan2003: Search for "libplayback"22:17
*** Venemo has joined #maemo22:18
*** chx has quit IRC22:18
dan2003thomasjfox: thx, ill check that out22:19
thomasjfoxdan2003: Which language are you writing in? C?22:19
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo22:20
*** thomasjfox has quit IRC22:21
dan2003thomasjfox: c++ , im actually using Qt22:21
dan2003this looks like it will do what i want22:21
*** renatofilho has quit IRC22:23
dan2003im not sure actually - will need to study and test - the alarm is more important than a phone call, this example seem sto give a phone call higher priority22:24
*** thomasjfox has joined #maemo22:26
*** davyg has joined #maemo22:26
thomasjfoxdan2003: Sorry, X11 just froze. Did you write anything? :)22:27
*** Tu13es has joined #maemo22:27
*** renatofilho has joined #maemo22:28
Tu13esso i've got an n800 on my desk and i have no idea what to use it for22:28
Tu13esis it worth trying to find something to do with it?22:28
Tu13esI have an iPhone which does pretty much everything I want in a mobile device22:28
dan2003thomasjfox: hi, yeah, this looks promissing but im not sure it will do quite what i need, The alarm must take priority over everything - including incoming or established calls22:28
dan2003Tu13es: send it to me :)22:29
Tu13eswhat will you use it for?22:29
Tu13esi wish there was a good clock app for it22:29
dan2003remote controll for media player22:29
Tu13esor something to get growl notifications or something22:29
dan2003my n900 does the job nicely, but when im not in my miss's has to resort to laptop - less than ideal22:30
*** hd has joined #maemo22:30
*** hd has quit IRC22:30
*** hd has joined #maemo22:30
*** chx_ has quit IRC22:30
ProteousI had a nice clock/alarm app on my n81022:30
Proteousdon't remember the name offhand22:30
*** hd is now known as jd22:30
Proteousbut I got it from the repos22:30
Tu13esi have flipclock and mclock i think22:30
ProteousI think it was flipclock22:31
Proteousnot positive though22:31
thomasjfoxdan2003: There are different playback priority groups.22:31
Proteousit was a little wonkey but it worked pretty good22:31
thomasjfoxdan2003: One is alarm IIRC22:31
*** chigga has quit IRC22:32
DocScrutinizerthomasjfox: and how would I select one of those for e.g. playsound cmd?22:33
*** dvaske has quit IRC22:33
*** isak has quit IRC22:34
thomasjfoxDocScrutinizer: Is that a preinstalled cmd line app?22:34
thomasjfoxGuess it doesn't have support for that, right?22:34
DocScrutinizersorry play-sound22:34
thomasjfoxIf it's in C, we could extend it22:34
thomasjfoxWhich reminds me to copy the libplayback example code to the wiki22:35
dan2003thomasjfox: sorry, not sure if u saw answer re language, im using Qt and hence c++.22:38
thomasjfoxdan2003: Perfect as I'm not sure if there a python bindings for libplayback22:38
*** lolloo has joined #maemo22:38
thomasjfoxWhat do you use for audio output?22:38
*** BCMM has joined #maemo22:40
*** makulkar_laptop has quit IRC22:40
Tu13eswow, apparently n800s sell on ebay for like $50-7522:41
Tu13esi guess there's my answer22:41
* DocScrutinizer sighs and wonders why we need this PA cruft, while ALSA been so nice and simple, just use the proper output device as a proxy for any friggin playback priority group22:41
kerioDocScrutinizer: but Doc, that would be the sensible thing to do!22:42
DocScrutinizerooh yes. Sorry22:42
thomasjfoxmay be it has something to do with the forced muting/stop of audio streams on incoming calls22:42
keriothomasjfox: alsa has mixers22:43
*** Tu13es has left #maemo22:44
thomasjfoxkerio: True that22:44
DocScrutinizerALSA has hooks too22:44
DocScrutinizerwhich are really nice, for exactly that purpose to implement such things like playback priority assigned to a audio device22:45
dan2003hmm, so it works in silent profile, which is good :). but makes no sounds at all whilst in a phone call :(.. Even if i could get the ear peice beep that happens if a txt or another call comes , that would be gd22:46
thomasjfoxdan2003: Did you just compile the example code?22:46
thomasjfoxDid you change the audio class?22:47
*** BCMM has quit IRC22:47
*** makulkar_laptop has joined #maemo22:47
dan2003not as yet - need to study it in more deatil to work that out.22:47
thomasjfoxLet me look it up22:47
thomasjfoxHopefully my box doesn't freeze again, it happens more often if I fire up a VM...22:48
*** lcukn900 has quit IRC22:49
*** githogori has quit IRC22:49
thomasjfoxdan2003: Try PB_CLASS_ALARM instead of PB_CLASS_MEDIA ;)22:51
*** scoobert1on has quit IRC22:51
dan2003thomasjfox: ok thx, ill do that22:52
*** cardinalMOS has quit IRC22:54
dan2003nope, still nothing when in call :(22:54
*** setanta has quit IRC22:54
*** n6pfk has quit IRC22:55
*** chx has joined #maemo22:55
*** kthomas_vh_ is now known as onekenthomas22:56
*** sid__ has joined #maemo22:56
*** mc_teo has joined #maemo22:58
*** cardinal has joined #maemo22:58
thomasjfoxwhat does happen with the real alarm clock while you call?22:58
*** sid_ has quit IRC22:58
*** cardinal is now known as cardinalMOS22:59
dan2003thomasjfox: gd Q, ill try and see22:59
*** marciom has quit IRC23:01
*** NIN101 has quit IRC23:01
dan2003thomasjfox: it makes the sutble beep tone u get if a txy/call/email comes in - but that should do, as long as something lets me know i need to look at the screen im happy23:01
*** setanta has joined #maemo23:01
thomasjfoxGuess you have to test the different audio classes then23:02
thomasjfoxPB_CLASS_EVENT might do23:03
thomasjfoxIf that doesn't work, try to combine "PB_CLASS_EVENT|PB_CLASS_ALARM"23:03
thomasjfoxUnfortunately there's no official libplayback documentation23:04
*** baraujo has quit IRC23:04
*** rd has joined #maemo23:06
makulkar_laptopMohammadAG, tried the wiki things same result :(23:06
dan2003thomasjfox: neither of those do it :(, maybe have to call something else altogether?23:06
*** mardi has joined #maemo23:07
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:08
*** briglia has quit IRC23:08
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo23:09
*** tackat has joined #maemo23:09
thomasjfoxdan2003: How did you exactly test the normal alarm clock? Did you set an alarm and when it fired tried to call your phone?23:10
thomasjfoxdan2003: Or was a phone call already active and then the alarm fired?23:10
*** Extends has joined #maemo23:10
*** etrunko has quit IRC23:12
dan2003i set alarm to go off in the next min, and initiated a call, it went off about 20 secs into call23:13
Venemolol dan200323:14
dan2003I know howto controll the led idicator via the /sys/class/leds interface, but wonder if there is some qt/notification API for this also?23:15
dan2003(that might take into account what over applications might be trying to do with it)23:16
thomasjfoxdan2003: If an alarm is currently "playing" and a new call is coming in, the alarm gets muted23:19
*** chenca has quit IRC23:20
thomasjfoxdan2003: Let's try the other way (the one you did)23:20
*** netepal has joined #maemo23:21
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC23:21
*** piggz has quit IRC23:23
thomasjfoxdan2003: I don't hear the alarm at all if a call is active23:23
DocScrutinizerdan2003: you should use mce and dbus to control LEDs23:24
*** rm_work has quit IRC23:24
dan2003u should here a short tone in the ear peice23:24
dan2003DocScrutinizer: thx, ill add that to the list of things to research .23:24
DocScrutinizerit's simple23:25
*** piggz has joined #maemo23:25
*** Rarok has joined #maemo23:25
*** E0x has quit IRC23:28
*** Titogelo has joined #maemo23:29
dan2003DocScrutinizer: so it woul dappear :)23:29
DocScrutinizeractually messing with /sys nodes for LEDs might cause mce to segfault, which isn't what you want to encounter23:32
DocScrutinizerfcam did this boo boo23:33
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo23:35
*** diegohcg has quit IRC23:38
*** Titogelo has quit IRC23:39
*** sid_ has joined #maemo23:40
DocScrutinizerdan2003: maybe you should use vibrator to signal events during call?23:40
DocScrutinizerI found this is a more easy to detect feedback than a beep mixed into whatever currently might be the phonecall inbound audio23:41
*** sid__ has quit IRC23:42
DocScrutinizerat least when far end is sending beeps as well, odds are you won't notice it at all ;-D23:42
*** piggz has quit IRC23:43
*** chx has quit IRC23:43
dan2003DocScrutinizer: thats exactly what im going to do :)23:43
*** chx has joined #maemo23:43
*** blackthorne has quit IRC23:44
DocScrutinizerdamn, I was afraid you'd say that. I'd appreciate to learn how to actually mix in a beep to call audio :-D23:44
*** chx has quit IRC23:44
*** chx has joined #maemo23:45
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo23:45
*** blackthorne has joined #maemo23:45
lardmanblackthorne: you still here?23:46
lardmanadding the QtCore or QtGui bit holds true for either PyQt or PySide, depends how you import the library23:47
lardmanapologies for the slow response, was watching the rugby23:47
blackthornefrom .. import * vs import ..23:47
lardmanyeah and tbh I never get it right either, I should really read the docs ;)23:48
*** stevomanu has joined #maemo23:48
blackthornethat makes sense even though my real experience goes against it. Couldn't make it work with from QtGui, QtCore import *23:49
lardmanit may also be that there's an extra layer in the pyside names23:49
blackthorneanyway, my main focus before leaving pyqt to pyside is to make something work in the maemo23:49
lardmanyou should talk to khertan23:50
*** stevomanu has quit IRC23:50
*** stevomanu has joined #maemo23:50
*** jhb has joined #maemo23:51
thomasjfoxdan2003: I heard it after switching on the speaker. I'm not sure if that beep gets generated by a "real" audio source23:52
thomasjfoxdan2003: Guess there's a special mechanism (on dbus?) to do this23:52
*** stevomanu has quit IRC23:52
*** sid__ has joined #maemo23:53
thomasjfoxis anyone familiar with the structure of the "development section" of the wiki?23:53
thomasjfoxI want to post the libplayback example there but I'm not sure if it's good to have a C file here:
lardmancan you post a link to the file?23:54
lardmanotherwise I can't see a problem with a [code] insert23:54
blackthornelardman: else I want to be able to deploy a full product with no strange dependencies for the users23:55
*** sid_ has quit IRC23:55
blackthornefor both win, mac and Linux23:55
thomasjfoxlardman: It's here:
*** chx has quit IRC23:55
thomasjfoxlardman: The code is rather big23:55
*** chx has joined #maemo23:55
*** edisson has quit IRC23:56
lardmanblackthorne: I don't see weird deps, I was just wondering if you need to import pyside.qtgui.something?23:56
lardmanthomasjfox: can you host it?23:56
thomasjfoxlardman: I wanted to make sure it stays on so it doesn't get removed in one or two years23:57
lardmanI guess TMO should stay there, otherwise add it to e.g. git or svn in  a Garage project?23:57
lardmanthomasjfox: I can't do guarantees, sorry ;) :)23:57
blackthornelardman: Yes, I want to bundle statically pyside being python the only dep23:58
lardmanbut Garage and TMO should stay there23:58
lardmanblackthorne: yuck23:58
blackthornelardman: Rugby, you american?23:58
lardmanwhy not have 2 deps and be more normal?23:58
lardmanblackthorne: double yuck!23:58
lardmanno, English23:58
*** b0unc3_ has joined #maemo23:59
jhbhi *, I know python, but have never done gui development before. Should I go down the qt or the gtk route, also having cross-platform in mind?23:59
blackthorneNormal, most major apps don't have deps23:59
thomasjfoxlardman: TMO is ;)23:59
lardmanthose Yanks have to play with breaks and armour, not the same game at all ;)23:59
lardmanthomasjfox: yep23:59
*** rd has quit IRC23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!