IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-10-29

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BCMM_actually, does anyone know a single difference between the UK and USA version of maemo?00:00
ruskieprobably wifi firmware00:00
BCMM_oh, permitted bands...00:01
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BCMM_if i use the wrong region, i'm still not going to get in anyone's way unless someone is operating an AP on the wrong band though, right?00:01
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TurskiDoes someone have usable FM transmitter on PR1.3?00:01
Turskior working boost00:02
BCMM_heh, as it happens my router can do that band they only use in Japan00:02
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MohammadAGTurski, boost was patched in kernel00:02
MohammadAG(cc PaulFertser)00:02
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: right00:02
ruskieMohammadAG, as in not possible any more?00:02
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MohammadAGruskie, reverse kernel patches and compile, then replace module00:03
MohammadAGshort answer, not on stock00:03
Turskidamn ;S00:03
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BCMM_so what does global permit? all wifi bands, or just wifi bands that are OK everywhere?00:03
Turskithe transmitter is totally unusable with 1.300:03
wmaroneBCMM: most can, they just disable it in software00:03
DocScrutinizerlong answer: needs kernel module reloading00:03
ruskieI guess I'll need to bother rolling my own kernel-sane build or something... will see00:03
Turskihad to bring N900 just 2cm from the radio antenna to be able to hear something from radio00:04
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BCMM_so, short of me accidentally creating an ad-hoc wireless network on a band which interferes with something, can anyone think of a way that using the wrong region could actually be antisocial?00:04
Turskiit hasn't been that sucky with PR1.2 even without boost00:04
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, or replacing, then rebooting00:05
PaulFertserTurski: just rmmod and modprobe again the fmtx driver.00:05
BCMM_ruskie: i'm not bothered about that, unless it's illegal enough for me to get caught00:05
TurskiPaulFertser: how would that help? do i need a patched module?00:05
PaulFertserTurski: the driver remembers lock only until after a reload.00:05
Turskioh :O00:06
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PaulFertserTurski: i've no idea who exactly locks it though, but i guess if you start boost right after module reloading, it'll work.00:06
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Turskii also complained yesterday about weird 2 seconds freeze on audio when pressing power button, but that has disappeared O_o00:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: replacing is a nice permanent fix. Reloading is just fixing the blown write-once fuse00:07
MohammadAG+  * Fixes: NB#155346 - FMTX power level setting & FMTX disabling00:08
MohammadAG+    settings to be more robust00:08
MohammadAGnice wording00:08
ruskiehmm boost works for me00:09
ruskieatleast that I can tell00:09
tybolltlook i didnt ask you that, you're taking it all out of context fuckhead00:09
ruskiewithout it need to basically move it to the antena00:09
DocScrutinizerknow what? this reminds me of core-wars00:09
ruskietybollt, ???00:09
tybolltehr that was NOT the correct window, sorry00:09
Turskiruskie: doesn't work for me00:09
ruskiebut when I enable boost I can be up to half a meter away or so00:09
Turskiruskie: it had awesome range when connected a charger and enabled boost after that :P00:10
Turskirange of many meters at least00:10
Turski(yeah, probably not legal :P )00:11
Turskibut now it just doesn't work00:11
DocScrutinizerTurski: see MohammadAG ^^^00:11
DocScrutinizerand PaulFertser of course, he found it00:12
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Turskineed to try that reloading next time00:12
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* MohammadAG built the 1.2 module against 1.3 headers00:13
Turskii'm not really familiar with compiling stuff on/for maemo00:13
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TurskiMohammadAG: would probably want to share that module if it's working fine?00:14
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: don't worry! worries are antisocial00:14
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MohammadAGhave not tested it00:15
MohammadAGbut I don't see why it shouldn't work00:15
DocScrutinizerBCMM_: just listen to Frank Zappa, Joe's Garage00:15
TurskiMohammadAG: ok, thanks00:15
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: VERMAGIC correct?00:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, same VERMAGIC, PR1.3 didn't change it00:16
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MohammadAGTurski, so, does it work?00:17
kwtmQuestion for all of you: if I am fine with Maemo PR 1.2 on my N900, is it worth upgrading (OTA) to PR 1.3?00:18
GAN900kwtm, it's mostly neutral.00:18
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so any PR1.2 *.ko should still work? :-o00:19
kwtmI see some of you said PR 1.3 but would like various opinions.00:19
GAN900I'm not entirely convinced they did anything but make us download 84MBs of packages.00:19
TurskiMohammadAG: can't test right now00:19
TurskiMohammadAG: but will try tomorrow00:19
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, might say invalid module format or something about symbols, different headers00:19
kwtmGAN900: I see.  Okay, will see how things go first.  I'll stay with 1.2.  (I recall some people went from 1.1 to 1.2 and some things broke)00:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: then Nokia FAILWALE00:19
* MohammadAG prefers the term FAILCHERRY00:20
DocScrutinizerkwtm: wise. *me* same00:20
ruskiewell managed to build a bootable kernel00:21
DocScrutinizer>>GIVE NOKIA YOUR CHERRIES!<<00:21
ruskienow just need to configure it and rebuild again00:21
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DocScrutinizer...and make the new config actually work as expected ;-P00:22
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andre__GAN900: Well, the 84MB included some fixes (see Bugzilla query link on ) and a few new bugs as usual. You know the game...00:22
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DocScrutinizerandre__: yes. A nice new one: SMS disappears00:22
andre__DocScrutinizer: yupp. see workaround in 1145600:23
DocScrutinizerooh, there's a workaround?00:23
DocScrutinizerbug 1145600:23
povbotBug History of every conversation (SMS, IM) empty after update to PR1.300:23
ruskieDocScrutinizer, that's what worries me yes... work as expected... but then I don't have much... I want a fb console, pptp support, iptables, possibly some other things...00:23
andre__it's actually not even a new bug. has happened before, but now more people run into it. weird.00:23
ruskieanyway sleep00:23
DocScrutinizerheh! andre__ : >>Please don't close as FIXED when there's no software fix involved...<<    :->00:24
DocScrutinizerandre__: is WONTFIX appropriate then? ;-P00:25
andre__WONTFIX is appropriate when Nokia says that it's a WONTFIX. so far they have not said to me.00:25
GAN900andre__, boy do I ever.00:25
andre__however their usual silence on some reports sucks even more00:25
GAN900Welcome to 2006.00:25
DocScrutinizera quite unexpected statement of you anyway00:25
andre__DocScrutinizer, hmm? what exactly?00:26
DocScrutinizerthe "Don't close..."00:26
andre__well. it's simply not FIXED just because there is a workaround. it's fixed when it does not happen anymore.00:26
DocScrutinizernothing wrong with it, just was puzzled and read it 3 times00:26
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andre__GAN900, hmm?00:27
MohammadAGNokia-N900:/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063# echo 118 > power_level00:27
MohammadAGNokia-N900:/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063# cat power_level00:27
DocScrutinizerthumbs up, MohammadAG00:27
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MohammadAGNokia-N900:/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063# cat power_level00:27
MohammadAGeven better00:27
renatoMohammadAG51, ping00:27
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DocScrutinizerrenato: he's here00:28
DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: kudos for spotting this madness (fmtx)00:28
renatoMohammadAG, I saw your application VertSMS, btw is a great app00:29
PaulFertserMohammadAG: without compiling anything:
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DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: ??00:29
renatoMohammadAG, but looking in the code I saw you are using QString from PyQt400:29
DocScrutinizercopy of pr1.2 *.ko?00:29
PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: it's not me spotting, i just looked at the code after someone hinted it might do that.00:30
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PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: no, plain stock module, just reloaded.00:30
renato do you have any special reason for use that? why not use only PySide?00:30
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MohammadAGrenato, read the description :)00:30
MohammadAGossipenna's the dev, I'm the maintainer00:31
DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: I see00:31
PaulFertserProbably need "echo fuck > lock" after that to make the stock firmware unable to downplay the power level back :)00:31
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renatoMohammadAG, ok sorry, I will ask him later, thanks00:32
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MohammadAG#define DEFAULT_POWER_LEVEL88 <-- is this ignored by FMTXD?00:33
DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: wtf is that "0" and crap printing to terminat *on a CAT*00:33
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DocScrutinizererr, nevermind00:33
* DocScrutinizer hopes for coffe to kick in finally00:34
keriothe DEFAULT_POWER_LEVEL...00:34
kerioIT'S OVER 80!!!00:34
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DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: still there's some weird differences between your first and your 2nd try00:34
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PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: first try is after a regular boot. I guess some app in the process first sets power level to 118, then locks it.00:35
DocScrutinizer1 118 118  vs 0 0 12000:36
DocScrutinizerany hint about semantics of that?00:36
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DocScrutinizeron/off, actual, limit?00:37
PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: lock, power_level before trying to change, power_level after trying to change.00:37
MohammadAGhow do I force module unloading00:37
DocScrutinizeror locked instead of on/off?00:37
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DocScrutinizermodprobe -r00:38
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^00:38
MohammadAGit's in use00:38
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MohammadAGnevermind, it got freed up00:38
DocScrutinizerrhen unload the modules that use it, and close the apps that open it00:38
DrWilkenmodprobe -rf00:38
DocScrutinizerusually doesn't work afaik00:38
DocScrutinizerjust like umount -f00:39
MohammadAGumount -l*00:39
DrWilkendidn't know that one ;)00:40
DocScrutinizerfor modprobe there's not even a -f mentioned in --help00:40
DrWilken"Lazy unmount"00:40
BugBluermmod -f / insmod -f00:40
DrWilkenDocS: there is on ubuntu00:40
DrWilkenman page00:41
DocScrutinizerDrWilken: but -f is just to ignore modversion and vermagic00:42
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DrWilkenaaah so it probably won't work when unloading anyway00:43
DocScrutinizermodprobe [ -r ] [ -v ] [ -n ] [ -i ] [ modulename ... ]00:43
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DocScrutinizerBugBlue: hmm, though modprobe is supposed to be the replacement for rmmod, it seems rmmod has some nice features unsupported by modprobe00:48
DrWilkenrmmod -f?00:49
DrWilkenjust googled it too :D00:49
DocScrutinizerBugBlue: thanks for that00:49
BugBluehth - hand *gone for now*00:49
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nomis... to safely force ...00:50
DrWilken-f (or --force) forces a module unload, and may crash your machine.  This requires the Forced Module Removal option when the kernel was compiled.00:50
nomis"I really want you to unload. But in a safe manner, so don't break anything..."00:50
DrWilken... pretty please00:51
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DocScrutinizernomis: exactly my thoughts :-D00:53
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D-manGuys, which rc.d folder is proper one to put in macchanger command?01:18
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MohammadAGX-Fade, ping01:22
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KaffeeJunky123Termana: it isn't morning everywhere on this planet01:30
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djszapishould my phone work with no mmc image flashing ?01:31
djszapijust the fiasco.01:31
KaffeeJunky123doesn't the new eMMc image fix some gps issues?01:33
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TermanaKaffeeJunky123, you are obviously unfamiliar with proper IRC etiquette. It is always good morning when you enter and always good night when you leave01:35
MohammadAGwhy would the eMMC be related to the GPS...01:35
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KaffeeJunky123Termana: that's a rather strange etiquette01:36
KaffeeJunky123Termana: and probably nothing general01:36
MohammadAGwe are strange people ;)01:37
KaffeeJunky123aka strangers01:37
ieatlinti resent being called strange01:38
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pupnikanybody want to tell me what i'm doing crappily here?01:39
KaffeeJunky123pupnik: what's that supposed to be =)?01:39
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pupnikplaying with low-cost pixel-effects KaffeeJunky12301:40
SpeedEvilWhat's it supposed to do?01:41
pupnikfor e.g. how do i subtract a number from an int01:41
KaffeeJunky123I see pixels01:41
pupnikand not allow the value to ebcome negative01:41
pupnikwithout an if-then01:41
KaffeeJunky123unsigned integer?01:41
SpeedEvilpupnik: unsigned int01:41
pupnikif(src[i+odest*4]<3) dst[i+o*4]=0; else dst[i+o*4]=src[i+odest*4]-301:41
SpeedEvilThe conditional operator can also be useful.01:41
KaffeeJunky123it's C run for your lives!01:42
pupnikis there something i can mask the negative number with to make it zero iff negative?01:42
KaffeeJunky123also horrible coding style01:42
pupnikdoes that assume dangerous stuff about how signed ints are represented?01:42
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KaffeeJunky123pupnik: I'd have to look up that one in the standard, but I only have one for C++01:43
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ieatlintuh, an unsigned integer will prevent negative numbers, but that doesn't prevent negative operations on it01:44
KaffeeJunky123pupnik: but my crappy book claims it's implementation defined01:44
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pupnikunsigned int foo,bar=3; bar=foo-2*foo; printf("%i",bar); ==> ?01:47
Turskipupnik: how about if(x<y) a = y - x; else a= 0;01:47
ieatlintpupnik: foo is undefined01:47
ieatlintwell, that doesn't assign 3 to foo01:48
KaffeeJunky123it does assign an unassigned value to foo01:48
ieatlintbut if foo is 3, then bar is -301:48
KaffeeJunky123fail is fail01:48
KaffeeJunky123ieatlint: C does calculate from left to right iirc01:48
ieatlintKaffeeJunky123: no01:49
ieatlintorder of operations01:49
ieatlint* is higher than -01:49
Turskiieatlint: that's not true...01:49
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ieatlintTurski: try it01:50
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ieatlint for the full chart01:51
ieatlinton that chart, multiplication is #5, and subtraction is 601:52
keriofoo=bar=3 assigns (bar=3) to foo01:52
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kerioin the evaluation of (bar=3), assigns 3 to bar, and the result of the evaluation is 301:53
ieatlintok, that seems dirty to me, but i stand by my initial comment that foo was undefined when i said it :P01:53
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keriono, foo *was* possibly undefined01:56
kerioit's now very well defined01:56
Turskiieatlint: ok, remembered wrong then :(01:56
keriofoo is 301:56
ieatlintno worries... i was beaten with a stick over the order of operations01:56
Turskiactually i have never even used C in pc programming01:57
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ieatlintkerio: yes, i was wrong there :)01:57
Turski(had to google what was the include for printf -_- )01:57
kerioC is... bad01:57
Turskii use C only for AVR and python on PC01:57
keriobad, bad, bad01:57
kerioreeeeeeeeeeeally bad01:57
Turskikerio: not probably that bad...01:58
kerioreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally bad01:58
ieatlintkerio: :P01:58
ieatlintjava fan?01:58
ieatlintbecause most people with a vendetta against c seem to be01:58
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Turskijava is much more bad01:59
keriohahaha java01:59
kerioare you kidding01:59
keriothe flexibility of compiled languages with the speed of interpreted languages01:59
kerioall in a generic VM01:59
ShadowJKand the bloat of openoffice and mozilla, combined01:59
Shapeshifterjava ain't that bad01:59
Shapeshifterfor certain purposes01:59
KaffeeJunky123ShadowJK: Depends on the implementation as well02:00
ieatlintwoo... programming language fight02:00
KaffeeJunky123Java doesn't mean its java02:00
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keriopython obviously wins02:00
nomisin fact c++ is the worst of the all. (to chime in)02:00
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: aww02:00
KaffeeJunky123if you're just refering to the programming language with a vm, then it's fine02:00
KaffeeJunky123but the framework...02:00
kerioKaffeeJunky123: a fan of clojure?02:00
keriopython/ruby/haskell > else02:00
FauxFauxOr Scalaaa.02:00
ShapeshifterKaffeeJunky123: I mean the language. So many of the java libs are horrible ._.02:01
KaffeeJunky123kerio: C++02:01
keriooh please02:01
Shapeshifteractually, I revert my opinion. Java really is that bad02:01
keriounless you're a masochist, ofc02:01
KaffeeJunky123was about to come up with that02:01
ShapeshifterC++ is broken02:01
ieatlintkerio: i prefer c :)02:01
KaffeeJunky123already typed it in but then I thought, that would probably sound mad02:01
KaffeeJunky123but now I might as well do it02:01
ieatlintand it's less that i'm a masochist, and more that i'm just that fucking pedantic02:02
KaffeeJunky123I'm a masochist02:02
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internetishardanyone use a bluetooth keyboard here? Why are they so expensive?02:02
* nomis vaguely points to
KaffeeJunky123and I'll recurse the templates until the compiler breaks02:02
Shapeshifternomis: I was just looking up that02:03
SpeedEvilinternetishard: they aren't.02:03
tripzerointeallahonsen, law of supply and demand02:03
nomisOracle of course now is in the process of killing Java completely.02:03
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tripzeroand iirc, they aren't any more expensive than RF keyboards02:03
tripzeronomis, don's spread FUD02:03
KaffeeJunky123guess who02:04
KaffeeJunky123I give you a small hint02:04
keriointernetishard: i have a stowaway/iGo ultraslim bt kbd02:04
ieatlinti'm sure oracle bought sun so they could just kill off java, solaris and mysql... makes sense to me02:04
nomistripzero: they are on a very good way towards that. Although they might not intend that actually.02:04
internetishardNokia SU-8W bluetooth keyboard is the one I was checking out I gues02:04
keriocurrently unused, but always handy when i'm using my laptop as a htpc02:04
keriojust looking at it unfold makes me happy :302:04
kerioi didn't pay it that much02:05
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: that looks awful to type on02:05
internetishardThat think looks terrible02:05
internetishardlol ^^yes02:05
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KaffeeJunky123the heck02:06
internetishardkerio, how is the iGo?02:07
keriointernetishard: not that bad to type on02:07
kerioand small02:07
SpeedEvilDX has lots of random stuff.02:07
internetishardmad expensive02:07
kerioif you're expecting a model M, you're looking at the wrong product02:08
internetishardyeah yeah02:08
internetishardI just want something that is light and folding and keys spaced similar to regular - and under $4002:08
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SpeedEvilAnd I want a supermodel to cook me breakfast.02:08
Shapeshifterunder $4002:09
internetishardhahah, these demands do not seem equally far-fetched02:09
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SpeedEvilI would be very, very surprised if you could get a working, reliable bluetooth folding keyboard at under $8002:09
ieatlintSpeedEvil: with a bit of money, that's very possible02:09
internetishardindeed, but like $200002:09
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internetishardmight as well spend $2000 on one of those "pickup" bootcamps, and learn how to attract women you like... than you get that shit for free as much as you want02:10
SpeedEvilBut I can dig a cellar for lots less than that, and chloroform is not expensive.02:10
tripzeroi want a supermodel to cook me breakfast and buy me cool bluetooth keybaords02:11
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ieatlintSpeedEvil: cellars are pretty expensive actually02:11
internetishardI wonder if the bluetooth ipad keyboard would work....02:11
internetishardI could probably find one of those cheap02:12
SpeedEvilFoldable - tick - bluetooth - tick - keyboard - tick - under $40 - tick02:13
SpeedEvilActually - cheaper!02:14
internetishardwonder if it is easy to type on these silicon keyboards at all02:14
ieatlintis the store that sells those illegal laser pointers that can set things on fire?02:14
ShadowJKillegal in some countries02:15
ShapeshifterI want one02:15
internetishardlol, play nice kids02:15
SpeedEvil - for small values of on fire.02:15
ShadowJK"Massive" 10-meter range02:15
* alterego yawns02:16
Termana_WHAT THE FUCK02:16
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ShadowJKYou can also get gps jammers, cellphone jammers, spy cameras, tools for picking locks, gunmount laser and scope, and other random gear one migght need for personal warfare02:17
TermanaNow I've seen it all. A web store selling lazers that can set stuff on fire02:17
SpeedEvilThough I have a 50mW unitr coming from them to upgrade my laser-level from a 1mW red barely visible to easily visible plane.02:17
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SpeedEvilThey also do n900 knockoffs.02:17
SpeedEvilOh - also.02:17
ieatlintthe spy cameras and lock picks are the only legal ones here i think, hehe02:17
TermanaProbably illegal to import into Australia. You would get done for importing weaponry.02:18
SpeedEvilA bluetooth ODBII adaptor.02:18
SpeedEvilFor connecting my n900 to my car02:18
ieatlintyeah, the bt OBDII adapter is awesome02:18
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TermanaSo, who wants to help start integrating that laser into the N900?02:18
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ShadowJKtermana: they also have tripple flame butane jet torch02:19
KaffeeJunky123no one02:19
SpeedEvil- BT car dongle.02:19
ieatlinthaha, that page for the laser claims that US citizens are forbidden from purchasing it even outside of the US02:19
ieatlintsomehow i doubt that's enforceable02:20
ShadowJKflip the lid and you get not one, but 3 flames each hot enough to melt copper. sets your tobacco on fire for sure02:20
SpeedEvilieatlint: Well - the US government in general believes strongly in extraterratoriality.02:20
SpeedEvilIn that all citezens of the US are bound by most US laws, even overseas.02:20
ieatlintSpeedEvil: indeed...02:20
SpeedEvilAnd sometimes, non-US02:21
TermanaSpeedEvil, a lot of countries have laws about overseas child exploitation02:21
TermanaBut not fire lasers02:21
pupniknicer version of the shader
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ShadowJKI wonder if still sells Uranium02:22
ieatlintthe US laws on "child exploitation" are so crazy, that if you go from one state with an age of consent at 16 to another state with an age of consent at 16 to have sex, you're committing child trafficking -- even if you're both the same age02:23
KaffeeJunky123they switched to plutonium already02:23
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ieatlintbut i want a laser to set fire to planes damnit02:23
ShadowJKI guess that just shows that their radiation meters suck bad now if they're selling plutonium to test them with02:24
* SpeedEvil has a radioactive vial next to his genitals.02:24
SpeedEvil(well - similar to)02:24
* ShadowJK guesses tritium before clicking02:24
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ieatlintyeah, so dangerous that the plastic casing shields the radiation02:25
ShadowJKAmazon still has Uranium :)02:25
ShadowJK"Radioactive minerals are for educational and scientific use only."02:26
ShadowJKmandatory disclaimer :)02:26
ieatlintjust go buy a pallet of smoke detectors02:26
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ieatlintthey have more radioactive materials02:27
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ShadowJKAmazon helpfully also suggests I might want to buy: "The Making of the Atomic Bomb"02:27
KaffeeJunky123and dictators for dummys?02:28
ShadowJK"Complete idiot's guide for dummies", almost02:29
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ShadowJK"How to Rule the World: A Handbook for the Aspiring Dictator"02:30
ShadowJKno idea whatsoever where to get the sharks from though02:31
ShadowJK(for the lasers)02:31
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ieatlintwe've got them off the coast here02:33
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MohammadAGCommunity SSU ready, just need to test it more02:43
DocScrutinizer51150mW is poor anyway, but I paid a 10th02:44
DocScrutinizer51nevertheless want that 500mW02:44
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* DocScrutinizer51 scares pub ith 150mW green spot at ceiling02:45
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ieatlintyes, we all want the 500mW laser :P02:46
Shapeshifterdug up my scratchbox, wanted to do apt-get update: E: The method driver /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/lib/apt/methods/https could not be found.02:47
Shapeshifteroh i give up. I know nothing about anything -.-02:48
MohammadAGignore it02:48
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DocScrutinizer51hooray hildon-thumbnailer eating my cpu and battery03:21
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DocScrutinizer51was keen enough to shoot ONE photo :-/03:22
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: I got 2, might consider pimping up one of them03:35
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DocScrutinizerdamn, Mentalist Traceur - what a cool nick03:41
DocScrutinizerfine for tmo, not IRC compatible03:42
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* sivang just arrived to find privmsgs in backlog from long ago :/03:53
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KaffeeJunky123that's why I don't keep any logs03:58
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internetishardDo any of you use iptables in maemo?04:12
internetishardAlso, why is fennec so so to *start* loading (opera isn't)?04:12
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sivangJaffa: The idea first came into existence when I saw some ideas for talks, one of them was "building a healthy community" and it evolved a bit to building a health community *and* project given community is involved.04:28
nox-internetishard, i may be wrong but istr iptables need power kernel, which there isnt yet for pr1.304:30
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djszapi'Hardware problem with MMC:' -> Failed to mount /home/user/MyDocs partition05:29
djszapiand my device keeps rebooting after pressing the green tick in a loop, kinda useless device now.05:30
djszapiwhat can I do ?05:30
infoboti heard flashing is
SpeedEvilBut it is also possible that you have a hardware problem with the mmc05:31
SpeedEvilwhich means you need to return it05:31
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djszapiI doubt that.05:32
djszapisince with other images it just works.05:32
SpeedEvilWell - you never said that05:33
djszapiand this problem occured after flashing in image..05:33
djszapiI have not flashed any MMC image since that is not available for my device.05:33
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djszapiany idea ?05:39
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infobothmm... flashing is
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djszapimmh, I am not sure you know I would not like to use maemo505:40
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DocScrutinizersorry, I seem too tired to follow your thoughts05:40
djszapiseems so05:41
rasterDocScrutinizer: dooooooooooooook05:41
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rasterDocScrutinizer: how goes it over in .de?05:43
DocScrutinizertoo cold05:43
DocScrutinizerand that's just starting05:44
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DocScrutinizerhooray, some smart dude found a harmattan img to flash on his device, "months ago"05:45
DocScrutinizerdoesn't that imply he's one of the cracks at Nokia developing that harmattan thing? So why does he ask me about errrr. yeah about what?05:47
DocScrutinizermeh, night peeps05:47
djszapiany idea ?05:48
DocScrutinizerabout broken MMC drivers in harmattan? I doubt anybody does05:49
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djszapiyeah, you know everybody :)05:50
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djszapijust because you do not have the faintest idea :)05:50
DocScrutinizerI know ONE thing, I *don't know* you05:50
rasterthaaaaaaaaats better05:51
djszapiyou can answer on the internal channel as well ofc...05:51
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rastergod damned... unicode  needs 23bits these days05:53
rasterthats nuts05:53
rasterooh look05:53
rasterthey added the japanese keitai mail emoticons to it05:54
raster1F3E3;JAPANESE POST OFFICE;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;05:54
rasteri recognise those emoticons05:55
* DocScrutinizer ponders about sushi05:55
rasterwill that do?05:55
rasteror to distract you05:55
raster1F45A;WOMANS CLOTHES;So;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;;05:56
* DocScrutinizer also feels temped to /kick, still :-/05:56
rasteraaah there it is!05:57
rasteri knew it'd be there05:57
rasterhere u do DocScrutinizer ...05:57
rastersome sushi for you05:57
ds3is raster encoding everything as a .HEX file? ;)05:58
rasterit's just entires from the unicode standard05:58
DocScrutinizerhow dull can you be, to go foggy like ""<djszapi> mmh, I am not sure you know I would not like to use maemo5""   ""<djszapi> any idea ?"" ""<djszapi> just because you do not have the faintest idea :)""05:58
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DocScrutinizerand then spam me in a query and tell about harmattan waiting since months to get flashed to his device06:01
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* raster hands DocScrutinizer a cookie06:02
rastercheer up. unicdeo has cookies06:03
rasterand doughnuts06:03
rasterit's got candy too06:04
DocScrutinizerraster image was yesterday, now we get unicode image :-D06:04
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DocScrutinizerRGB raster image has problems with turquoise, Unicode image has problems with large hotdogs06:07
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DocScrutinizero/ zzzZZZzzz06:09
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DocScrutinizerplease can somebody with a PR1.3 with stock kernel run powertop, on a device hooked up to walcharger and screen locked07:15
DocScrutinizerand post the corresponding values to those of a stock PR1.2 here:07:16
DocScrutinizer     C0 |  25.4% |          |   600 MHz |  39.2% |07:16
DocScrutinizer     C1 |   0.2% |    0.1ms |   550 MHz |   4.2% |07:16
DocScrutinizer     C2 |   4.9% |    6.5ms |   500 MHz |   1.3% |07:16
DocScrutinizer     C3 |  37.1% |  146.7ms |   250 MHz |  55.2% |07:16
DocScrutinizer     C4 |  32.4% |  607.5ms |07:16
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DocScrutinizer(above values from a PR1.2 with xchat and a xterm active, powertop via ssh+WLAN)07:20
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DocScrutinizernox-: :-) thnx07:25
nox-is the segfault to be expected?07:26
DocScrutinizerno, LOL at segfault07:26
* nox- only just installed it07:26
Termananox-, you're suppose to run it as root07:27
DocScrutinizerI'm getting similar insane values here, with a tweaked PR1.3 hostmode kernel (esp 100% @ 500MHz)07:27
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DocScrutinizeronly while on charger07:28
DocScrutinizerC1 |  98.8% |  262.7ms |   550 MHz |   0.0% |07:28
DocScrutinizer C2 |   0.0% |    0.1ms |   500 MHz | 100.0% |07:29
TermanaDocScrutinizer, what is the last Ratio column about? The first one is obvious, but the last one doesn't seem to fit in with any of the values at all07:29
DocScrutinizeraah, it's % of cpu@<freq>07:30
DocScrutinizerof the active (c0..c3?) state07:30
DocScrutinizerbasically aiui cols 1..3 are unrelated to col4,507:31
TermanaOh I see now, thanks. I'd wondered for quite some time what it was about07:31
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DocScrutinizeryeah, twisted07:32
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DocScrutinizernox-: this was with screen black?07:33
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DocScrutinizerI can tell from powertop07:33
DocScrutinizertoo much gfx07:33
nox-ah hm07:34
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ebzzryHi! Is curl available, in any form, in Fremantle?07:35
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DocScrutinizercompare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen:
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nox-next try with a sleep 40 in front:
DocScrutinizerthe most annoying thing is it spins cpu for nothing, and thus burns quite large amounts of power07:41
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TermanaDocScrutinizer, well isn't that a side effect of having userspace charging (BME)07:42
DocScrutinizerwhich in turn causes charging of battery never trips the charge end current threshold07:42
ieatlintebzzry: i believe libcurl is a stock library, and curl i think is in the repos07:42
ieatlintextras or extras-devel07:42
DocScrutinizerTermana: PR1.2 also has "userspace charging"07:42
ebzzryieatlint: OK07:43
TermanaDocScrutinizer, was yours PR 1.2 or 1.3?07:43
nox-oh well mine still got the green leds07:43
DocScrutinizer[2010-10-29 06:40:24] <DocScrutinizer> compare yours to a PR1.2 system, on wallcharger, with nothing but ssh session running, locked screen:
nox-so it did know (or think?) when it was fully charged07:43
TermanaOh righto.07:43
DocScrutinizernox-: LED goes green, but it never stops pulling current from charger07:44
DocScrutinizerand so keeps battery floating at max voltage, which is killing batteries07:45
nox-`na da hamse uns ja n ei ins nest gelegt...'  :P07:45
DocScrutinizeralso cpu spinning void @ 500MHz which doesn't exactly meet Nokias own recommendations07:45
TermanaDocScrutinizer, so, good time for jrbme then? :p07:45
DocScrutinizernox-: yep07:46
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* nox- unplugs charger07:46
nox-and i was just getting used to simply letting it plugged on charger overnight... :(07:47
Termananox-, you can always.... downgrade! DUN DA DAAAA07:47
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DocScrutinizerI'm doing this all the time, but then I don't care much about LiIon deteriorating, I just buy a new one when I found out how fast it will age07:48
DocScrutinizerbut CPU aging @ 500MHz isn't exactly irrelevant to me07:48
nox-yeah at least this isnt apple where you cant easily change batteries...07:49
fluxdoes anyone know why it ups the MHz when USB is connected?07:49
flux(whatever the reason must be, I doubt they are releavent when charging only?)07:49
DocScrutinizeralso it seems doesn't happen like that on PR1.207:50
DocScrutinizeraah, and the "PR1.3" values I got here are - as mentioned above - on a hostmode kernel based on PR1.3, but rootfs still is pr1.1.1 (yes!)07:51
nox-ah well i at least did a `normal' upgrade07:51
DocScrutinizerso this is clearly a kernel thing, not caused by rootfs system components, like e.g bme07:52
nox-(after manually upgrading perl that it didnt like)07:52
DocScrutinizernox-: my figures on 1.3 kernel are same as yours07:52
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nox-without charger:
DocScrutinizersame as before, but with title, so nobody gets confused :-)
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TermanaHa. Ha.08:07
TermanaIt was so funny you made nox- quit08:07
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ebzzryieatlint: Do you have it confirmed that 'curl' exists on extras-devel?08:13
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ieatlintuh, no, i'd need to look it up08:15
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ebzzryieatlint: OK08:17
ebzzryI don't think it is present in any of the extras- repos. Has anyone written a working binary of curl for Fremantle?08:19
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ieatlintlooks like you may be right... thought it was, but appears to be just libcurl08:19
ebzzryIt is also listed at that curl only exists in Maemo 5 as a library, and not a binary.08:19
ieatlintthere should be no reason someone can't compile curl for arm...08:20
ebzzryieatlint: that's a bold statement08:21
ieatlintno, i'm just using the standard geek definition of "should work" which differs from "will work"08:21
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ieatlintgiving it a quick try right now08:22
ruskieebzzry, I have it in my own repo08:24
ebzzryruskie: Where is your repo?08:24
* Jucato bumps ruskie08:24
ebzzryruskie: Going08:24
ieatlintthere you go, simpler even :)08:25
ieatlintand it did compile without issue in scratchbox08:25
JennaHiyall. I flashed my N900 with the PR 1.3 firware (global). I flashed it without restarting or pressing "U" . But nevertheless the firmware got updated. (Shows in the about box in the settings). Anyway my question is should I re-flash it  or I dont need to. ?08:25
ruskieieatlint, exactly what my package is ;) just a compile in the scratchbox ;)08:26
ebzzryruskie: Thanks. I'll test it as soon as I get back from the meeting08:27
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Jennau guyz ? n900 no /08:30
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ruskieif it works don't see any reason why reflash08:30
ruskiedid you reboot it yet?08:30
ebzzryruskie: BTW, what should I put under "Distribution" and "Components"? Where should I put "opt"?08:31
ruskielemme check08:31
ruskiecomponents is blank08:32
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ruskieopt/ goes under distribution08:32
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ebzzryruskie: FAM doesn't like it that way.08:32
ruskie and opt/08:33
ruskienote the https://08:33
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ebzzryruskie: URL:, Distribution: opt, Components: <blank>08:33
ruskienot opt08:33
Jennaruskie, yeah. I did reboot it & installed lots of software as well. It works. fine. but I did expereinced once bloated graphics when I minimize/maximize the running application. only once.08:33
ebzzryruskie: Gah. That tripped me.08:33
ruskieJenna, sounds like no issue then08:34
slonopotamusslonopotamus_: leave me alone08:34
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RobbieThe1sthi all08:35
Jennaruskie, was just concerned since the official documentation at said "You ought to reboot the device & press "U"  thats all. Dont know why would they say something like that. If it works the other way as well.08:35
ruskieJenna, because sometime it doesn't08:35
Jennahey RobbieThe1st08:35
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ruskieJenna, specifically U forces it to some specific mode08:35
Jennaruskie, okay. I guess no harm done.08:35
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Jennaruskie, IC. Btw I didn't flashed eMMC thing. whatever that is. Is it okay. ?08:36
RobbieThe1st...Y'know, I'm still not sure why they have that in the documentation: I find it easier and better to set the Flasher to "waiting", then reboot the device. It'll automaticly start and flash easily08:36
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RobbieThe1steMMC flashing is (more or less) optional.08:36
ruskieRobbieThe1st, I had to atleast once or twice use the U trick08:37
ruskieJenna, emmc is your data on the device ;)08:37
RobbieThe1stReally? why?08:37
ruskiebecause flasher didn't pick it up otherwise08:37
ruskieit can happen08:37
Jennaruskie, I had the data all backed up. Would I gain anything positive in flashing eMMC thing ?08:38
RobbieThe1stemmc wise, not quite: Its two things: 1, your MyDocs folder/partition, and 2, your /home/ and /opt/ folders.08:38
RobbieThe1st /home has your user profile on it - all program configuration etc. /opt has 3rd-party programs in it, mainly.08:39
Jennaoh and the GasBalls hanged on me once too. Is that normal. (I had to pkill them)  ?08:39
JennaRobbieThe1st, but If you do a backup & then restore after flashing. Shouldn't everything be okay ?08:40
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RobbieThe1stat least, "ok" to the point at which you installed everything - If there's a glitch in a program, it's not (usually) going to fix that08:41
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RobbieThe1stWhat I -will- say though is that, because you didn't flash the eMMC, when you restore your programs, you may find that settings you set before -didn't- get erased. Savegames being one example08:42
Jennaand another thing that I noticed was that When I log onto OVI account it shows that I have downloaded some of the applications which were installed before flashing the new Firmware (and are removed after flashing ofcourse). Shouldn't the cookies be removed after flashing. ?08:44
Jennahmm. IC.08:44
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JennaAnyway I wonder If anyone has ever cloned the whole n900 filesystem with clonezilla & restored it ala Ghost.08:46
ruskieshould be possible08:46
RobbieThe1stHeh, funny you should mention that08:46
RobbieThe1st's sort of what I'm doing with BackupMenu08:46
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RobbieThe1stOnly, for safety reasons, I do backups and restores with most of the OS not running08:47
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JennaRobbieThe1st, is there a how-to doc in the offing ? :)08:48
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RobbieThe1st Would that be helpful?08:48
RobbieThe1st... t.m.o's down again.08:50
Jennayeah. was wondering what it is taking ages to open08:51
RobbieThe1stGive it a few minutes08:51
Jennait been flaky since yesteraday08:51
RobbieThe1stLonger than that - It's been going off and on for a couple months now, though usually only at a specific time08:52
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Jennaits running on rhel5. not sure whats the issue with them ?08:54
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JennaAnyway care to suggest/share you novel/best apps for n900 ?08:54
TermanaYes, cause RedHat makes it absolutely fault proof08:54
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AppiahJenna: the media player :)08:55
JennaTermana, the is running of debian . and its been like that as well.08:56
JennaAppiah, check. what else ?08:56
AppiahWhatever you need08:56
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AppiahDont install a bunch of apps just because... install when needed08:57
JennaI don't know the novelty kinda apps. e.g n900fly or angleometer etc.. they are nice & usefull08:57
psycho_oreosI generally suggest some powersaving stuff like autodisconnect and some widgets like dataplan monitor, 3g/2g switcher08:57
Appiahflashlight is usefull08:58
psycho_oreosssh switcher and status viewer is useful if you use ssh a fair amount08:58
psycho_oreosload applet that can take screenshots and video recording comes in very handy08:59
* ruskie just runs ssh all the time08:59
Jennayeah I have all those. but I think have more apps shouldn't matter as long as those are not always (read backgroud) running kinda tasks. I think widgets come in that category. (hence eating up ur battery)09:00
DocScrutinizersimple brightness applet and load applet09:00
* psycho_oreos is paranoid and uses mobile broadband nearly all of the time.. the last thing he wants is to leave ssh open on n90009:00
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ruskiepsycho_oreos, you actually have open ports on that mobile connection?09:00
Jucatonew app: N900Bounce - measures how hard the N900 bounces off a hard surface (like a floor) :D09:00
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ruskiepsycho_oreos, as in incoming?09:00
psycho_oreosruskie, well if you ran sshd for instance it would be declared as open otherwise I believe it will be filtered09:01
JennaJucato, no thanx. :) I'll give that a pass.09:01
ruskiepsycho_oreos, not what I'm talking about ;)09:01
ruskiepsycho_oreos, I can't directly connect to my n900 over the internet...09:01
ruskiethe cellco has all INCOMING ports blocked09:01
Jennafor sshd you can always hasve fail2ban or denyhost running.09:02
psycho_oreosJenna, most of the apps are really based on personal preferences.. there aren't much else for apps to recommend apart from general things such as widgets and stuff like maybe categorise for example09:02
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psycho_oreosruskie, heh I haven't tried that but I'm a little paranoid as always09:02
ruskiepsycho_oreos, well I'm paranoid as well... just give it a try ;)09:03
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Jennapsycho_oreos, I seem to suffer from bad battery life. simple wifi (Adhoc mode) runs it dry after ~1.5 hours.09:03
ruskieanyway I generally need to establish a vpn connection to my home network from it before I can ssh in over 3g09:03
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ruskieJenna, adhoc is not simple wifi09:03
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psycho_oreoscategorise is less work than apmefo if and when it works. For me it has always worked until I removed it to try out apmefo.. then removed that and reinstalled categorise which fails to work09:03
ruskieit's the most power hungry of all modes09:03
* ruskie has a new kernel built and is scping the modules and it to the device atm...09:04
psycho_oreosruskie, I'll do it when me quota resets :) right now I ran a nice bit of bill on mobile broadband09:04
ruskiewhat's your limit?09:04
ruskieand how much is it costing you09:04
Guest77323what's the deal with talk.maemo? it's up, it's down.09:05
psycho_oreosJenna, hmm one can enable stuff like powersaving mode, and using stuff like autodisconnect, minor tweaks such as making brightness to as low as possible + backlight/screen timeouts09:05
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Jennapsycho_oreos, I always make sure to tone down the cpufrequency09:06
psycho_oreosruskie, puny, 7GB and AUD$49 a month.. right now I've pretty much racked up roughly 5 times that amount09:06
psycho_oreosJenna, using titan's kernel?09:06
ruskieJenna, adhoc wifi is power hungry... simple as that09:06
ruskiealways was always will be09:06
ruskiepsycho_oreos, hmm ouch... I pay 10eur for 2gb but I could be paying 18eur for 20gb09:07
Jennaruskie, In PR 1.2  there was a bug that any certificates used to work/even if they are expired (I think). Besides I haven't checked-up if this new firmware has WPA-2 support added.09:07
ruskieJenna, it's Adhoc wifi09:07
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ruskieit behaves differently than in managed mode09:07
JennaGuest77323, Its been like that for quite some time09:07
psycho_oreosruskie, where I live is basically the land of oligopolies' paradise.. all there to milk money out of consumers09:08
Jennapsycho_oreos, no. the plain kernel. it that (titan kerne) any good on battery etc.. ?09:08
ruskiepsycho_oreos, well not that different here... though atleast here we have some regulators that will step on their fingers09:08
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Guest77323I know. ever since 1.3 a few days ago the website goes offline sometimes. Just looking for why, I guess.09:09
psycho_oreosJenna, hmm titan's kernel imo won't be that much more of power saving imo (since it doesn't have 128MHz clock for phone calls or something) but I get around 10 or so hours usage (no adhoc)09:09
psycho_oreosruskie, which is good, here the regulator is quite lax about it all09:10
Jennaruskie, Im using ubuntu 10.04 to with my n900. not sure which doesnot support which. I guess I need to digg deep a little more.09:10
Guest77323can't seem to find the twitter status  for it either. I thought htey had an account09:10
ruskiepsycho_oreos, of course there's only 2mio of us and we have 2 real and 3 or 4 virtual cellcos ;)09:10
ruskienow to see what I can break(with my own build of the kernel)09:11
psycho_oreosruskie, out here there's more but you won't find nice deals especially for wireless broadband, they'll just rip you off if you exceed over your monthly quot rather than shaping you.09:12
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JennaAnyway since you can't hook a RJ-45 with it . I wonder if anyone of have tried USB as an network interface with this. (not sure but in maemo speak its called usb tethering.)09:13
psycho_oreosJenna, yeah USB networking, I've done it09:13
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Jennapsycho_oreos, I gather you have to add lots of non-standard stuff to get it going (u know modified kernel n stuff). is that true. ?09:15
ruskieworks out of the box09:16
ruskiehookup the usb cable... select phone mode... setup local usb0 and modules... ssh in09:16
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psycho_oreosJenna, for USB networking you don't need to hack that much :) but otherwise yes I have some non-standard stuff running on my n900 now09:17
* Jenna prefers ruskie's method09:18
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Jennaruskie, the doc link for RT*M please !09:18
ruskieto be precise09:19
Jennahmm. lots of typing. But I guess I can write a onetime script for this.09:21
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JennaAnd I suppose you guyz have not given meego 1.1 a try yet ?09:23
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psycho_oreosnope, 1.1 doesn't have the features I want yet (I would love to have a complete maemo sort of alternative) plus my holdovers with RPM still exist09:24
ruskiegah... forgot to run the depmod on the modules dir...09:24
psycho_oreossymbol errors? ;)09:25
ruskieno... simply no module loading09:25
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Jennapsycho_oreos, meego is not debian based ?09:25
chxwell, look, the N900 sucks as a phone so on earth would you want to install an even more broken phone stack on it :) ?09:25
chxit's an awesome little Linux computer, of course.09:26
chxbut Meego helps little there as htere are few apps09:26
psycho_oreosJenna, no, it uses RPM package management system as opposed to maemo's DEB package management system09:26
chxis this a good assesment?09:26
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psycho_oreosN900 may suck as a phone but that doesn't mean that one can't use N900 as a phone anyway :)09:27
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chxof course, i just gave a reasoning why meego 1.1 makes no sense09:27
Jennaoh. I have been in love with debian eversince I moved over to it after using rpm based distros for 7 years09:27
Jucato1.1 isn't meant for end-user/daily usage yet anyway09:28
psycho_oreosthough meego's approach is technically to be open as opposed to maemo's current proprietary stuff here and there09:28
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psycho_oreosphone control for example under maemo is proprietary whereas under meego for n900 is open09:28
chxi will believe that when i see an open source wifi driver...09:28
Venemo_N900psycho_oreos: meego's approach is to be as open as possible09:29
psycho_oreoswl1251 is open :)09:29
kwtmraster: Hey, you are back!09:29
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chxpsycho_oreos: if that's so then what's all this problems with using it in master mode?09:29
Stskeepschx: wl1251 fw is redistributable (like on pc), wifi driver is open in kernel09:29
psycho_oreosVenemo_N900, which is good but I still have my grudges with its use of RPM (it'll eventually be over once I do give meego a proper run)09:29
Jucatowifi != phone control afaik. so open source wifi driver is not (directly) related to open source phone control09:30
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Venemo_N900psycho_oreos: well nothing's wrong with rpm09:30
psycho_oreoschx, its because the kernel is ancient on n900, its using 2.6.28.. compat-wireless should give it more edge esp. with injection support09:30
kwtmpsycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from APT?  I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi.09:30
kwtmIt was a long time ago, though.09:30
chxpsycho_oreos: compat-wireless works on the N900??09:30
psycho_oreosVenemo_N900, personal grudges :) had a really bad holdover eversince using rh8 and later on suse pro 809:31
Stskeepskwtm: you can't compare rpm and apt - rpm can be compared to dpkg and apt compared to zypper or yum09:31
Jucatorpm is to dpkg as urpmi/yum/zypper is to apt09:31
Jucatobah Stskeeps beat me :P09:31
chxpsycho_oreos: compat-wireless gave my laptop a new life by allowing power management on the wifi09:31
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kwtmStskeeps: Right, I meant to use the two metonymously to represent the two systems, but you're right --I should have said RPM and DEB.09:31
kwtmOkay, fine, I'll try again:09:31
Jucato"metonymously" ... gotta look that up >.<09:31
psycho_oreoskwtm, had issues with rpm being really really unstable, causes segfaults and I had to reissue rebuilding of rpmdb.. that plus usually botched up installation..09:31
kwtmpsycho_oreos: Are there any technical concerns with RPM other than it's different from DEB?  I used to use Mandrake and don't recall any particular problem with urpmi.09:31
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chxi might be an idiot but arent RPM files a lot harder to create than DEB09:31
Stskeepschx: i actually find deb files harder than rpm nowadays09:32
kwtmpsycho_oreos: Okay, so the rpm system is just not as well done as deb, then.09:32
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psycho_oreoschx, I dunno if compat-wireless works on n900 but in theory one should be able to make it work with n900.. surely09:32
Jucatochx: I haven't tried RPM yet, but I would already beg to differ at this point :)09:32
JucatoI mean, creating RPM pacakges. but from the docs I've read, it's not harder than DEB09:32
chxOK so what should i rtfm on the N900 wifi in master mode?09:32
chxi really need that09:33
psycho_oreoskwtm, that plus some frontend tools.. such as deb-repack and apt-mirror.. I'll admit they are such a hack but where's the equivalent for rpm? none yet09:33
chxright now i am using an option 442 data card in a ctr 500 router for a mobile hotspot09:33
kwtmJucato: metonymy: the use of a part of an object to refer to the entire object.  Like "all hands on deck" (meaning all PEOPLE, not just their hands) or "get your BUTT over here!" (and bring the rest of your body)09:33
chxit's painful to move the SIM card :/09:33
Jennaanyway I hope maemo would allow to run the meego rpm apps thru alien or something.09:33
Jucatokwtm: thanks. I got redirected to many times: metonymously -> metonymically -> metonomy :)09:33
psycho_oreoschx, won't be easy, you'll need compat-wirelesss for starters, then you'll need to somehow build iw with sb.. and then hostapd (which is mandatory for all mac80211 based drivers and that includes wl1251)09:34
* ruskie builds a monolithic kernel to try and rescue his n900 from a reflash09:34
kwtmJucato: Oh, there's no such word as "metonymously"?  Mea culpa. :P09:34
chxpsycho_oreos: so just give up and use ad-hoc? i guess that can work too. is there a free solution? JoikuSpot binds to IMSI and that's unnacceptable, some months I am changing my SIMs more than my socks.09:35
Jucatoruskie: any luck of SMGL on it yet? :)09:35
Jennaruskie, linux is usually monolithic unless you go on the path of GNU Hurd09:35
Jucatokwtm: np, google was kind enough to tell me so :)09:35
ruskieJenna, what I meant is no modules... all built in09:35
psycho_oreoschx, I wouldn't give up easily, I'm tempted to also try and figure out how to get master mode working but it isn't easy for an average joe when there's fair amount of deps one needs. However all is said in theory master mode should work provided one has met all the pre-requisites of setting one up09:36
Jennaruskie, oh. u mean compile the kernel with most of the modules being compiled as "loadable modules".09:37
* kwtm is only academically interested in this talk of Meego while he doesn't even want to upgrade from PR1.2 to PR1.3 (who knows what it will break, knowing Nokia...) :P09:37
ruskiekwtm, I must say nothing broke for a change ;)09:37
ruskieatleast for me09:37
ruskieand I tend to mess with modified init scripts and such ;)09:37
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kwtmruskie: Really!  Well, okay, if more people say that then I might just go ahead and upgrade.  But were there worthwhile improvements?  I'm perfectly happy with 1.2 right now.09:38
Jennaruskie ; But a good amount of thought must have been already put into while building a generic kernel. as to what sort of things would be most frequently used n stuff etc..09:38
ruskiecan't really say09:38
ruskieonly been using it a day or two09:38
psycho_oreosthat reminds me... re: PR1.309:38
fluxapparently it hasn't gone for worse, atleast09:38
Jennakwtm, unless you try n900bounce app. It should surely break it09:39
Guest77323nothing broke for me. but it did make me ditch all the crud I had built up (you have to reinstall apps)09:39
kwtmruskie: I get to claim to be the King of "Mess with Modified Init Scripts".  I found the one-line text file that killed the N900 (reflash or return to store). :P  Not that I'm such an expert on these things; I just stumbled into it and almost gave up on the N900.09:39
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ruskiekwtm, lol... I started messing with them the day I got it...09:39
kwtmJenna: Is that the "n900fly" or something like that?  "How far can you throw your n900"?  I couldn't believe it...09:39
Jucatokwtm: just an app idea. "how hard can your N900 bounce" :)09:40
kwtmJenna: although it would be nice to have an "accelerometer record" app for the car to see how hard I brake/swerve when I drive. :)09:40
RobbieThe1stIt's device-breaking time!09:40
ruskieanyway it's actually sad that the n900 is so easy to break though09:40
chxpsycho_oreos: what's with this?09:40
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: imagine, they were unable to repair my N900 so they replaced it09:40
Jucatokwtm: this would be great for a MeeGo tablet too:
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Guest77323this is why we can't have nice things09:40
Jennakwtm, Im a bit stingy with my spending. so I dont have a big heart to try various altitudes09:40
kwtmruskie: Are you using an Otter Box?  It looks indestructible (not that I've ever tried to test it...)09:41
ruskiekwtm, I meant software wise09:41
psycho_oreoschx, that uses ad-hoc mode.. I have it installed and it isn't particularly great but one should never complain over free lunch :)09:41
kwtmJenna: Ah, unlike you, I bought three N900's in a row.09:41
ruskieevery little thing breaks it... ow you want to mount /usr... sure... breaks... because stuff in /bin needs stuff in /usr/lib09:41
ruskiekwtm, oh wow09:42
* kwtm conveniently omits the fact that he returned the first two because of a defect. Yeah, the one-liner text file that killed the bootup process.09:42
RobbieThe1stRuskie: Sounds to me like you want to be able to make RootFS images to flash when you break things..09:42
* psycho_oreos would be happy if he could afford to another n90009:42
Jennabtw I hear they make alumimum casings for n900 as well. Anyone invested on those ?09:42
chxpsycho_oreos: seems the firmware has a bug09:42
RobbieThe1struskie: Like, say,
ruskieRobbieThe1st, have considered it09:43
kwtmruskie: I can't beat your web page.  I can only offer this:
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psycho_oreoschx, interesting, oh well that looks like it would be seen as TI's fault09:44
chxpsycho_oreos: would this work?09:45
djszapichecking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs. -> How can I avoid it in scratchbox while build the target debian package ?09:46
djszapii386 target, it works with arm target though.09:46
chx source code here.09:46
psycho_oreoschx, I wouldn't know to be honest, plus USB host-mode could bring more potentials into the mix.09:47
chxthats not usb09:48
kwtmAnyway, I am on the verge of mapping a vim keystroke to phone phone numbers highlighted in a text file.  I hate the built-in phone GUI.  It is so clumsy...09:48
ruskiekwtm, interesting issue09:49
psycho_oreoschx, correct it isn't but I'm not sure how will it function under maemo :)09:49
ruskiekwtm, you know you can just type on the desktop and it'll get you to the contact?09:49
kwtmThe contacts database takes forever to search through (not for everybody, it seems, but for me).09:49
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ruskiehow many contacts do you have?09:50
kwtmruskie: Actually, I am trying to avoid using the contact database.  It slows down when I load the Conversations widget (because then it has to look up each phone number to map the phone number to the name).  Same with loading the phone app since it has to load contacts database.09:50
kwtmruskie: Only about 2580 or so.  Other people tell me they have 2000+ with no slowdown.09:50
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ruskiekwtm, last I checked all those were preloaded09:50
RobbieThe1st..Huh, it worked. Great. So, current version of BackupMenu works fine on PR1.309:50
ruskiecontacts, phone, browser, etc...09:51
ruskiekwtm, lol...09:51
Guest77323god I need more friends.09:51
kwtmruskie: AND the contacts app can't import more than 1000 contacts at a time (thanks a lot, Nokia!)09:51
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ruskiedo you actually know all 2580 ppl?09:51
Venemo_N900kwtm: lol09:51
ruskieor are those like fecesbook friends?09:51
kwtmruskie: Why do I need to know all 2580 ppl?  When you have 2580 files on your computer, do people ask, "Do you know what is contained in all 2580 files"?  Do you make sure that you know what is in each of 2580 photos that you took?09:52
ruskiekwtm, generally yes09:52
kwtmruskie: But, to answer you, YES I know all 2580 people.   Why would I put in the contacts database otherwise?09:52
ruskieI sort through them and discard any I don't like09:52
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ruskiehmm I think I have less than 30 contacts in mine09:53
kwtmI think the contacts app was designed by some pathetic Nokia engineer.  "Hey, I tried importing my ENTIRE list of friends, and both of the entries got imported, so it must work!"09:53
ruskieand even there I generally don't use more than 2-3 regulary09:53
ruskiekwtm, tried using syncevolution to sync from a syncml server?09:53
kwtm(apologies if said pathetic Nokia engineer is among present company)09:54
ruskiewell imho I'd call 2000+ a corner case09:54
ruskienot something one would use to test against09:54
kwtmruskie: Hmm... not sure what you are saying about syncevolution.  Is that supposed to start my phone app more quickly because it doesn't have to keep rummaging through my contacts?09:54
JennaRobbieThe1st, I suppose and editing is in the order of that page
ruskieno I meant for importing contacts ;)09:54
ruskieI think the average would be more like 50 maybe 100 contacts09:54
kwtmruskie: Well, I've managed to import all contacts.  Just had to do it 1000 contacts at a time.  But my beef is not just (or even mainly) that it would only import 1000 at a time.09:55
ruskieyes you said so09:55
kwtmMy beef is that it would ONLY import 1000 at a time AND NOT TELL ME.09:55
RobbieThe1stYea, I suppose. I'm developing as I go, and have had to change things multiple times, so... Plus, I probably should go find a proper layout template..09:55
kwtmSo: "Okay, user, I've imported ALL your contacts."  (in an aside whisper) "The first 1000 contacts, anyway.  Why would you need me to import more?"09:56
RobbieThe1stLike, a list of proper sections and all09:56
kwtmAnd then I have to figure out WHICH contacts have been imported and which haven't.  So then I reimport the rest of the file and have duplicate contacts.09:56
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kwtmEver try to merge 1000 duplicate contacts?  (No, *don't* tell me about the "merge duplicate contacts" app which makes you check off 1000 checkboxes to merge the 1000 duplicate contacts)09:56
Venemo_N900kwtm: I only did this with a few hundred, not 100009:57
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kwtmHowever, to get back to what I originally mentioned: I could stick these contacts all in one big 10MB (or 100MB) text file and vim can handle it fine.09:58
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ruskiehmm would be nice to have a smart merge contacts system...09:58
kwtmSo I'll just get a vim command to send some dbus command and dispense with all the contact lookup.09:58
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RobbieThe1stYea, that's true. VIM's frigging awesome09:58
kwtmThe only thing I need is how to generate DTMF tones while in a phone call (e.g. "John is not available right now --press 1 to leave a message" etc.)09:59
kwtmRobbieThe1st: vim is the most-used application I have.  I use it to take notes and look up this huge database of drug info (I'm a doctor; I use this every day)10:00
RobbieThe1stI can imagine. Personally, I use it as my console text-editor on both my N900 and desktop, though I do tend to use a GUI editor when I'm on the desktop. If I'm editing cfg or script files though? vim it is.10:01
keriokwtm: there's probably a doctor-mode in emacs10:01
kwtmSpeaking of text-based apps, is there a text-based browser like lynx, links2 or elinks for the N900 which can replace the built-in MicroB ("B" is for Bloat)?10:02
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kerio(not to mention the org-mode for taking notes, which i'm told is godly)10:02
kwtmkerio: Yeah, but I can't use emacs.  I only have 10 fingers. :)10:02
keriokwtm: you have a weird idea of bloat but... i guess lynx, links2 or elinks10:02
kerioi'd use dillo though10:02
keriolightning fast, and has more features than elinks10:02
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kwtmkerio: Well, I currently use MicroB to load my home page with is a simple text file (okay, it's got one form field for looking up Google).  It takes FOREVER to load!10:02
Jucatokwtm: I just saw links while browsing a while ago. in extras-devel probably10:02
kerioi mean, dillo supports css!10:03
kwtmkerio: Oh, dillo is a text browser?  Haven't heard of it but sounds like I should look it up.10:03
keriono, it's graphical10:03
Jucatokwtm: you should try it on fennec then! FOREVER * FOREVER :)10:03
ruskieno it isn't10:03
keriobut reeeeeeeeeeeeally fast10:03
ruskieit's a gui browser10:03
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ruskieI'll stick to uzbl myself though10:03
kwtmJucato: Ahhh, yes.  Fennec.  Where, instead of taking a coffee break, you can fly to Colombia to pick out the coffee beans yourself while waiting for it to load. :)10:03
ruskiejust wish someone would make a usable port of it for the n90010:03
RobbieThe1stkwtm: How come it takes so long? Heck, even Slashdot takes only around 20s with my 1.5m dsl connection...10:04
Jucatoruskie: didn't you use midori once upon a time?10:04
RobbieThe1stvs around 8s on my desktop10:04
ruskieJucato, nope10:04
kwtmWell, I tried Midori, but it has this weird bug.  When I type some text (e.g. in the URL bar), it replaces whatever I type with the Fn+ key.  For example, I type S, then "S" appears, and then it disappears and is replaced by "+".  D becomes # and F becomes -.  Weird.10:05
kwtmRobbieThe1st: No idea.  It's a built in text file on the N900.  It doesn't even need an internet connect, for crying out loud.  (I just use the text file as a quick way to get to various links, like Google, or my .documents directory, etc.)10:05
keriosunspider ftw10:05
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kwtmMidori doesn't have a file browser.  It chokes on URLs like "file:///home/user/MyDocs/.documents"10:06
keriokwtm: are you aware of the esistance of... you know... bookmarks10:06
keriowhich is what you're supposed to use while browserd loads10:07
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ruskiehmmm anyone got an emergency recovery kernel with an initrd attached?10:07
kwtmkerio: Oh, I'd have to use the bookmarks feature of MicroB instead of having it load a single textonly HTML file from the local file system?  From my experience, bookmarks are even slower (and they have to generate a graphics thumbnail).10:07
keriokwtm: they load fast though10:08
kerioopen Web10:08
kerioit opens up "instantly"10:08
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kerioask timeless_mbp for the reason10:08
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keriohe worked on microB10:08
kwtmkerio: Probably my N900 is slowed down for some reason.  I've seen on threads that some people have very slow N900's and aren't sure why.  There seem to be multiple reasons.10:08
kwtmSometimes a restart will fix it, sometimes not.10:08
ruskieI'd say tracker might be the main issue10:08
rasterkwtm: back from where? i never left10:08
Venemo_N900kwtm: when was your last reflash?10:09
kwtmruskie: Yeah, what *is* this "tracker" thing?  Is it like a built-in gremlin that slows everything down?10:09
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keriowhile also indexing your music10:09
kerioso yeah10:09
ruskiekwtm, indexer10:09
ruskiedocuments etc...10:10
keriothere's also pulseaudio10:10
ruskieyou can edit it's config file somewhere in your ~/ on the device10:10
keriowhich is another built-in gremlin that slows everything down10:10
keriowhile making you listen to shit10:10
Jucatothought PR 1.3 had PA-related fixes?10:10
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RobbieThe1stOh, yea. That reminds me - Time to figure out the setting to disable apt auto-updates10:10
kerioJucato: does it still use pa?10:10
kwtmraster: :) :) that's so funny: "Raster, you're back!"  (40 minutes later) "What do you mean?  I never left" ... uhh... Anyway, what I meant was that I didn't see you the few times that I signed on; I'm eager to hear more news about the Samsung Linux Phone thing.  I know you can't say much, but ... still moving on track?  I'm looking forward to having a choice of Real Linux Smartphones.10:11
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Jucatokerio: afaik yes.10:11
keriothen it's not fixed yet10:11
Jucatodon't think they can replace PA in the middle of a release10:11
rasterkwtm: oh i just lurk. people are just at my desk in real life :)10:11
kwtmkerio: I think that, on my N900, it's PulseAudio and also the swapping.10:11
rasteror i'm off doing code10:11
rasteror something10:11
kwtmraster:  I figured that. :)10:12
rasteras for on track - yes. moving. nicely10:12
kerioteh swapping :(10:12
internetishardDo any of you use iptables in maemo?10:12
internetishardAlso, why is fennec so so to *start* loading (opera isn't)?10:12
kwtmI set "swappiness" to 1 (I think) and when the phone rings, it takes about 15 seconds for the phone app to become usable.  Of course, my phone shunts to voice mail after 15 seconds...10:12
keriointernetishard: because gecko is not exactly light10:13
internetishardoh shpan i was wondering about swappiness on maemo10:13
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kwtminternetishard: You just cut and pasted your question about fennec from before (complete with typo: s/so/slow/2)10:13
internetishardyeah I'm smahsed10:13
internetishardjust checking back irc before i crash10:13
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timeless_mbpkerio: what's the question?10:13
rasterkwtm:  swappiness to 1 or 100?10:13
keriotimeless_mbp: "why do you feel the need to lie to your user regarding the loading time of microb10:14
kwtmIs there some command to check swapping, like "while /bin/true; do am_I_swapping >> swap.log; sleep 5s; done" or something like that?10:14
timeless_mbpkerio: "duh"?10:14
keriowrt bookmarks vs real windows"10:14
kwtmraster: Swappiness to 1, I think.  So it tries not to swap, but when it does swap, it takes forever.  At least that's my impression.10:14
timeless_mbpthe system's dyloader more or less sucks10:14
rasterjust set to 010:14
kwtmraster: I think default is 30?  I tried changing it but it didn't help.10:14
rasterwell it will swap10:15
rasterwhen it runs out of ram10:15
timeless_mbpso loading the engine takes time during which the process can't possibly give any feedback10:15
rasterbut it wont swap anon pages out in favor of disk cache10:15
rasterwhich is what swappiness controls10:15
timeless_mbpimagine you had an app that couldn't possibly browse10:15
kwtmraster: Yeah, I actually think my N900 is so slow because it runs out of RAM.  (And that contacts database must somehow thrash it badly)10:15
timeless_mbpwhat other thing could you *possibly* provide while you waited?10:15
rasterthen swappiness wont help u10:15
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rastercontacts db - depends how its handled10:16
rasterifits mmaped and decoded onthe fly10:16
kwtmraster: Yeah, I found out the hard way...10:16
rasterthen that will be disk cache10:16
dRbiGehh? i agree that tracker is a big mistake, but pulseaudio? in my case when i'm listening to music and someone calls it's almost instantenous that i get the ringtone instead of music and phone app ready to answer, or not10:16
rasterthus swappiness will control it10:16
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rasterif its loaded and kept all in heap.. then no.10:16
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dRbiGkerio: maybe the problem in your case is some other app, not pa10:16
rasterkernel should have an easy (root only) feature to lock pages of a specific process into memory10:17
kwtmdRbiG: I think it is me to whom you address your comment --kerio wasn't having a problem.  But I think it's mainly ram.10:17
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dRbiGoh, sorry10:17
rasterall pages it touches (read or write) should get mlocked by kernel auotmatically10:17
raster(until they are released)10:17
kwtmI can't prove it, but I think I just use vim a heck of a lot and it takes more memory, and then everything else swaps around... :P10:17
kwtmraster: Wow, I am swooning with all these impressive technical terms, but I think what you're saying is that swappiness is not my problem.  But is *swapping* itself my problem?10:18
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rasterswappiness can cause swapping10:18
kwtmMy N900 slowly slows down until it's unusable every week or so.  Then I turn it off and on, and sometimes it's back to normal, sometimes not.10:18
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rasterbut the thing that causes it is disk access10:19
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raster(reading files for example)10:19
dRbiGkwtm: strange10:19
RobbieThe1stHm... Isn't there some setting that forces it to try to keep x KB free most all the time?10:19
dRbiGi have uptimes of weeks10:19
rasterif you set it to 010:19
dRbiGand it never slows down10:19
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rasterthen disk io wont force things to swap out10:19
rasteru still can get swapping due to simply being out of enouhg mem10:19
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rasterand needing more for a process10:19
kwtmdRbiG: Oh, stop being so surprised.  I found out that everyone uses his/her computer differently, so YOU could have no problem, but that doesn't really help ME.10:19
dRbiGkwtm: my bet is that you have some app that doesn't clean up properly10:20
rasterand thats another matter entirely10:20
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rasterthere is a system call called mlock()10:20
rasteronly root can use it10:20
rasterbut u can use it to lock memory in place10:20
dRbiGkwtm: exactly - my 'help' here is that i would rule out pulseaudio as source10:20
rasterthat means it will not be swapped out10:20
kwtmdRbiG: Agreed, but what could it be?  My suspicion is that it's one of the built-ins (or vim) because I don't use the others enough to cause swap flop10:20
rasteruntil released or munlocked()10:20
rasterbut its a system call10:20
rasterand you do it inside your app on ranges of memory10:20
kwtmdRbiG: I say pulseaudio because "conky" shows that pulseaudio will take up 16% CPU at a time when there is not really any sound playing (other than "click" when I tap on an icon).10:21
rasterthis means that a "vital" process that is needed and must react ASPA10:21
rastercan at least avoid swapping itself back in10:21
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rasterit can also mlock pages from its code and shared libs in to avoid paging them in too when it wakes up10:21
kwtmraster: From the standpoint of us non-technical mortals, is there a way to "lock" the phone app in memory, at least?10:21
RobbieThe1stUm... keep it running?10:22
kwtmCan I write a 3-line C program that says "mlock(phone_app);" or something?10:22
rasterit could also be set to a realtime (fifo) priority to ensure it absolutely gets all the cpu it needs (other than cpu used by kernel to service interrupts and kernel services)10:22
rasterso for example.. dialler should/could do that10:22
rasteralong with telephony server10:22
kwtmRobbieThe1st: Hmm, I never thought about that.  It would be really inconvenient on the dashboard, but might be worth a try... wonder if I need to keep the Contacts app running, too.10:22
rasterthough as dialler needs x and compositor and wm to work also for display to happen10:22
rasteru'd need to also mlock/realtime fifo them too10:23
dRbiGkwtm: hmm, does the cpu usage stays high for long or is it just a oneshoot peak?... and i think that conky is more suitable to be the memory and cpu hog it that case :)10:23
rasterto make a sure-fire way to always handle an incoming call "instantly"10:23
rasterfor those not wiritng the code10:23
rasteru're "screwed"10:23
rasterthats what i was getting at10:23
rasterthere is currently no way to tell the kernel to do this for u with a nice /proc/ value10:23
rasteror something10:23
kwtmdRbiG: What do you mean, conky is more suitable?  Conky lists the top 4 apps that use the most CPU, and I can see that PulseAudio is generally 1st or 2nd when my phone slows down.10:23
rasterthat'd be much more convenient10:24
raster(or not last i knew)10:24
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kwtmraster: Ahh, too bad.  But now that you mention "dialler", is that the phone GUI?  Could I (say) use a dbus command to dial a phone, and then only afterward invoke "dialler" so I have a GUI to respond to "Press 1 to leave a message, press 2 to get the operator" etc.?10:25
RobbieThe1stY'know, we all complain about the N900 not being responsive enough... Ubuntu on a similar-spec'd machine(1ghz tablet, 512mb ram) is -so- much worse when running apps that take all available CPU10:25
rasterwel conceptually its the dialling/calll handling gui process10:25
rasteractually dont know what it is on maemo10:25
rasterRobbieThe1st:  hehehehe10:25
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kwtmRobbieThe1st: >sigh< Okay, we can all complain about Ubuntu, then, too.  The point is: when you have a phone, it's not enough for the computer to be just a computer.  When my patient calls don't come through because I can't answer the call in time, it doesn't help to say, "But Ubuntu is even slower!"10:26
rasterthat reminds me10:26
rasterneed to check on something10:26
rasterthanks for the reminder :)10:26
RobbieThe1stthe -obvious- thing to do then, is to call the N900 a "Mobile computer", with a sim-card-slot. Problem solved. :P10:27
kwtmI think (in my limited technical knowledge) that what we need is RTlinux.  The phone gets to be a RT process.  Everything else is just an idle process that executes in the background.  WHen the phone rings, I don't care if the entire computer locks up and freezes while the phone app pops up.10:27
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kwtmRobbieThe1st: Yeah, that's what someone else said, too (but in a much less friendly way than you): "It's not a phone!  It's a computer --with phone capabilities!"  Meanwhile, it's being marketed worldwide as a phone.  (Otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.)10:28
crashanddieactually, it's been marketed worldwide as a computer in your pocket10:28
RobbieThe1stHeck, I'd like a bit more than that - Give the phone RT priority, sound high priority, whatever app's in the foreground high priority. Everything else gets low priority.10:28
kwtmI guess Nokia can say, if Maemo runs slow, "It's not a computer!  It's a paperweight --with computing and SD card IO and wifi capabilites"10:28
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dRbiGkwtm: yes, it's a computer and phone is additional feature. anyway, i still think that you have some app or something that does something bad to pa when you get a call10:29
crashanddiekwtm, read the title of that page "Nokia N900 Mobile Computer"10:29
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dRbiGso pa is suddenly taking more resources that it should10:29
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crashanddiewrong focus10:29
kwtmRobbieThe1st: Agreed!  Can't we expand nice from the -10to+10 range to -100to+100?  I'm *almost* longing for the non-multitasking Treo650 that I had --"background" tasks have zero priority.  They simply don't get executed at all! :)10:29
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jacekowskikwtm: there is something like that10:30
jacekowskikwtm: nice 1910:30
kwtmcrashanddie: Oh, THERE you are!  Was wondering when you'd pop up.  Anyway, we had this discussion before.10:30
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dRbiGkwtm: on the other hand - did you have such problems when your n900 was bare to the factory settings?10:30
crashanddieerhm, no10:31
crashanddieyou probably had this discussion with someone else10:31
kwtmdRbiG: Oh, don't even talk about bare-to-factory.  It crashed on the second day (yeah, one-line text file again).  But to answer your question: yes.10:31
crashanddieyou know, one of the other few hundred geeks10:31
crashanddiewho are... right10:31
kwtmcrashanddie: No, it was you.10:31
Myrtticrashanddie: DENY TO THE LAST BREATH!10:31
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jacekowskikwtm: apps with nice 19 only are scheduled on to a processor if there are resources left from other apps10:31
kwtmOh, er, right!  Yeah, it must have been some other geek.  Yeah.10:31
kwtmjacekowski: Really!?  Okay, will try that.10:32
jacekowskikwtm: and/or you can SIGSTOP and SIGCONT apps as needed10:32
kwtmjacekowski: Is there a corollary: nice -19 will get whatever resources are available?  Would love to renice -19 the phone.10:32
jacekowskikwtm: yes10:32
jacekowskikwtm: there is10:32
jacekowskikwtm: and phone app already has quite high nice10:32
kwtmjacekowski: Very interesting... okay.  Will try that.10:32
jacekowskikwtm: and pulseaudio as well10:33
kwtmjacekowski: I figured the phone app would be negative-niced, which is why I am postulating that it's the contacts app that's slowing it down.10:33
dRbiGand both of them work for other people10:33
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dRbiGso guess is that the problem is actually somewhere else10:33
jacekowskikwtm: but if you have low nice app telling pulseaudio to do something strange it's not going to help10:33
jacekowskibecause it will be pulseaudio with high nice using lot of resources10:33
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kwtmdRbiG: Hmm, so you think it may be related to pulseaudio, but not directly the way pulseaudio is written.  You think it may be some other app using pulseaudio in a non-optimal way.10:34
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dRbiGkwtm: exactly that was my guessing10:34
jacekowskipulseaudio is suboptimal by design10:34
PaulFertserjacekowski: hi :) do you probably know the answer to my question if i should flash "secondary", "2nd" and "xloader" and if yes, then which version (as pr1.3 has several bundled).10:34
jacekowskiand it was obsolete at the moment of writing10:34
kwtmjacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -1910:35
jacekowskikwtm: renice10:35
kwtmjacekowski: I don't suppose there's an equivalent of "swapnice -19" where the app is never swapped out, as raster was implying?10:35
jacekowskithere is10:35
jacekowskibut it has to be done by app10:35
jacekowskiand it's blocked on most systems10:35
jacekowskibecause it has potential for abuse10:36
jacekowskibecause it's messing up with memory overcommit10:36
dRbiGa lot of potential for it10:36
dRbiGlike a memory leaking app locked in ram... bye bye10:36
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rasterkwtm: not swapnice - not prioritising swapping in and out10:37
rasterbut there is a way to NOT swap ever10:37
rasteror mlockall() to be specific10:37
jacekowskii just said tht10:37
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dRbiGor disable swap10:37
rasterjav was getting to the mlockall bit :)10:38
kwtmraster: Oh, sorry .. mlock is a command-line command, or a C library function?  My impression was the latter.10:38
rastercsystem call10:38
raster(c lib func)10:38
rasterthe process has to call it10:38
rasterie u dant do it10:38
rasterwell actually10:38
rasteri lie10:38
jacekowskiyou can do it with gdb10:38
rasteru could use an ld_preload10:38
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jacekowskior ptrace10:38
rasteror gdb10:38
rasterbut now we're getting silly :)10:38
kwtmOkay, from the point of a C language klutz, could I instead assign more memory to RAM and less to the virtual disk?  I mean, the N900 has THIRTY-TWO gigs of RAM, and all but less than a gig goes to virtual disk!?10:38
jacekowskikwtm: no it doesn't10:39
rasterno it doesnt10:39
jacekowskikwtm: n900 has only 256M of ram10:39
rasterit has 256m of ram10:39
rasterthere's an echo in here10:39
kwtmWow, I'm getting answers in stereo. :)  But it only confirms that you two are right --please go on.10:39
jacekowskikwtm: that 32G is just an eMMC10:39
rasterturn off swap10:39
jacekowskikwtm: flash memory10:40
rasterand it'll work better10:40
jacekowskikwtm: it's really slow10:40
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rasterthats your user clutz control10:40
kwtmAwww... 32G of snail-RAM!?  Geez...10:40
jacekowskikwtm: it's not a ram10:40
rasterits not ram10:40
rasterits disk10:40
jacekowskikwtm: it's like a soldered on memory card10:40
raster(well nand flash behind an mmc wear leveling controller soldered onto the board as a chip and wired up to the emmc interface)10:40
jacekowskikwtm: same like the one you can change yourself10:40
rastererr emmc interface10:41
kwtmNo wonder I'm swapping!  My drug info itself is 11Gig...10:41
jacekowskikwtm: that has nothing to do with it10:41
rastern900 comes with 768m partition of disk AVAILABLe for swap10:41
kwtmNot that I mind vim swapping the text file.  But ... 256M ram... I am so disappointed...10:41
rasterit can be turned on and off10:41
rasterthis allows ram to be written out to flash (disk) when its not used much10:41
jacekowskikwtm: that's more than any other phone on the market10:41
rasterto make room for new data that needs active ram10:42
kwtmraster: Please tell me the Samsung Linux Phone has at least 1G of RAM.  Like, *real* RAM....10:42
jacekowskikwtm: up until couple months ago10:42
jacekowskikwtm: because new iphone has 512M10:42
rasterswap is LOTs LOTS LOTs LOTs slower than ram10:42
jacekowskikwtm: nope it doesn't10:42
rasterlike 100's of times slower10:42
rasterram is costly10:42
kwtmjacekowski: Oh, are you on the Samsung Linux Phone team, too?  Great!10:42
rasterit makes the phone more expensive10:42
rasterbut it also makes power drain worse10:42
jacekowskikwtm: no but i read the news10:42
jacekowskikwtm: it's not yet released10:43
rasterjacekowski: whatever we have wont be in the news :)10:43
jacekowskikwtm: so it's just all marketing10:43
kwtmraster: "More expensive"!?  I paid 3 times the cost for the N900 compared to the other dummfones --it had BETTER have a bit more RAM in it! :P10:43
rasteror marketing10:43
kwtmoh, baby crying b ack soon10:43
jacekowskikwtm: n900 was designed over year ago10:43
rasterkwtm: n900 is cheapish10:43
raster$500 or so is good10:43
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jacekowskikwtm: and had 3-4 times more ram than any other phone10:43
jacekowskikwtm: at the time10:43
rasterdumbphones will still cost $200 or so10:43
rasteri've seen enough dumbphones cost > $100010:46
jacekowskisat dumbphones?10:46
rasterjust overpriced trendy ones10:46
rasterand just after release10:47
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MyrttiNokia 5230's are a tad over 100€ in Finland10:48
Myrttithey're crappy, plastic but in theory they're smartphones10:48
dRbiGgosh, i guess that if you wanted a fancy phone you should've went with an iphone10:48
dRbiGits fancy, it works10:48
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dRbiGyou can buy a shitload of apps for it and if they happen not to work you always have the right to complain10:49
rasteri wouldnt spend $1k on a dumbphone10:50
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jacekowskiraster: sat phone10:51
rasterwouldnt buy one of them either10:51
ruskiefun flasher doesn't want to flash my device10:52
rmrfchikdamn, recaller still wash away widgets from desktop10:53
JaffaMorning, all10:54
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rmrfchikand in PR1.3 ringtond (from custom ringtones) used to die.10:54
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: just flash whole image10:56
ebzzryruskie: I always get "SSL connection timeout" errors10:56
jacekowskiPaulFertser: or flash device specific version10:56
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: i'm not sure which version of phone you've got10:56
PaulFertserjacekowski: i've got a pre-production model.10:56
PaulFertserjacekowski: HWID: 2001 Build: F410:57
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: hmm, that's a bit tricky then11:03
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PaulFertserjacekowski: i couldn't find _any_ source describing the pre-production models, neither do i know _anything_ about that cryptic bootloader scheme, so i have no idea which parts and why might i need to flash.11:04
jacekowskiPaulFertser: why aren't you flashing full fiasco image?11:04
PaulFertserjacekowski: i can't because the bootloader parts do not match some "versions" or something like that.11:05
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X-FadePaulFertser: You need a legacy image then.11:05
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X-FadePaulFertser: As your contact at nokia for that?11:05
PaulFertserX-Fade: i want to be on the PR1.3, not on the legacy image11:05
X-FadePaulFertser: You have a legacy device, you need PR1.3 legacy.11:06
jacekowskiX-Fade: you can leave old bootloader11:06
jacekowskiand just flash rootfs11:06
X-FadePaulFertser: That is a different fiasco packaged for legacy devices.11:06
jacekowskiand possibly rapuyama11:06
PaulFertserX-Fade: why do you think there exist any? Also i'm told this particular version is not far from the production models (probably nothing different at all).11:06
X-FadeYeah, that too. But there is an easy solution too ;)11:06
X-FadePaulFertser: I run it :)11:07
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ruskieebzzry, hmm tried opening it in a browser?11:07
jacekowskiPaulFertser: just flash rootfs11:07
PaulFertserX-Fade: eh, sorry, what do you run?11:07
jacekowskiPaulFertser: and see how it goes11:07
jacekowskiPaulFertser: it may work11:07
PaulFertserjacekowski: what about the kernel?11:07
jacekowskiand kernel11:07
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jacekowskikernel and rootfs11:07
PaulFertserjacekowski: that's exactly what i did.11:07
jacekowskiand leave rapyuama and bootloader intact11:07
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: does it work?11:07
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PaulFertserjacekowski: at least i see no oddities. But since pr1.3 has other parts bundled, that made me wonder why they included those.11:08
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: they always do11:08
jacekowskiPaulFertser: fiasco image can be used for coldflash of dead device11:09
PaulFertserjacekowski: always reflash bootloader even if there're no changes and zero need?11:09
jacekowskiPaulFertser: they sometimes fix some bugs11:09
PaulFertserjacekowski: that's exactly what i'm worried about.11:09
jacekowskilike 1.2 bootloader had blocked hardware encryption acceleration11:09
ebzzryruskie: Yes, but the page doesn't load.11:09
PaulFertser(that my old BL version has some unfixed bugs)11:09
jacekowskibut as far as i looked at new and old bootloder11:09
jacekowskithere is nothing there11:10
ebzzryruskie: Do you have a .deb of curl instead?11:10
PaulFertserjacekowski: are you a community member with some nice reversing skills or do you have some information from nokia?11:10
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ebzzryruskie: Error code: sec_error_unknown_issuer11:11
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: nah, i reversed it myself11:16
PaulFertserjacekowski: that's rather cool. Do you think it might make sense that you share some of your knowledge so that proper support of backing up (and flashing from the device) kernel would be added to 0xFFFF (as it doesn't seem to be functional now).11:17
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: i could11:19
jacekowskiPaulFertser: but it's complicated from legal side11:19
PaulFertserjacekowski: i mean e.g. debian folks would be glad to be able to reflash the kernel.11:20
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PaulFertserjacekowski: isn't it legal if you just outline some "specs" and e.g. i provide a patch for 0xffff?11:20
jacekowskiwho's the person writing 0xffff?11:21
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: i can't write ANY code for it to be legal11:21
ebzzryruskie: ?11:21
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jacekowskispecs are only acceptable way11:21
PaulFertserjacekowski: so do not write it, just write some specs.11:21
jacekowskiand even then it's scratching surface of copyright breach11:22
PaulFertserjacekowski: "pancake" is the author, whoever that is.11:22
jacekowskibut i personally don't get idea why rewrite something that's working11:22
PaulFertserjacekowski: i do not think memory layout and stuff like that (header etc) can be copyrighted at all.11:22
jacekowskiPaulFertser: but software itself is copyrighted11:23
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PaulFertserjacekowski: well, the thing is: it doesn't work. I do not know any way to backup currently used kernel. And i know no way to flash the kernel in some, say post-inst script for a debian package.11:23
jacekowskiPaulFertser: and writing same software based on reverse engineered software is very illegal11:23
jacekowskiPaulFertser: and doing it by passing specs between person doing RE and writing code11:23
PaulFertserjacekowski: software is copyrighted but as long as you do not post some disassembled source, you're not breaching anything afaict11:23
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: is just moving it from very illegal to barely legal11:24
* RST38h sighs11:24
PaulFertserjacekowski: there're plenty of examples when people did that (clean-room reimplementation) and nobody ever complained.11:24
RST38hHave we got two uberlawyers in the room, gentlemen? =)11:24
_trinePhiladelphia lawyers I think11:25
PaulFertserRST38h: do you know a way to flash a new kernel automatically after apt-get upgrade on the device?11:25
jacekowskiPaulFertser: anyways, thing is that you can get kernel directly from mtd11:25
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jacekowskiPaulFertser: yes11:25
jacekowskiPaulFertser: nokia flasher11:25
PaulFertserjacekowski: doesn't work for _debian_..11:25
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jacekowskibut i think on device flasher works differently to usb flasher11:26
RST38hPaul: I do not, but it is possible apparently11:27
RST38hPaul: PR1.2 did it, afaik11:27
PaulFertserjacekowski: (dump from mtd) for that i'd need to know the right offsets and header format (how much should i dump). And for flashing one should provide some data structures so the bootloader would be happy.11:27
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RST38hAfter it restarted the device, it showed a slightly different Nokia logo and a progress bar underneath11:27
PaulFertserRST38h: not in a way suitable for Debian, as they've used the proprietary nokia flasher.11:27
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RST38hScrew Debian11:28
RST38hYou are using Maemo not Debian11:28
PaulFertserBut i care about those who does use Debian.11:28
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PaulFertserAnd i care for functional 0xFFFF.11:28
Venemo_N900does ringtoned work on PR 1.3?11:29
RST38hWell, then you can continue caring about those who use Debian and their funny legal issues11:29
PaulFertserRST38h: btw, i think that the logo and "progress bar" come from some other parts, not from the kernel.11:29
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jacekowskihmm that's possible11:29
RST38hPaul: I think they come from some flasher program that PR install has scheduled to run at startup and update the kernel11:30
jacekowskithat flasher writes kernel to some staging area11:30
jacekowskiand nolo flashes it to wherever required11:30
PaulFertserRST38h: please notice how that's _you_ calling things that are very important for many honourable people "funny legal issues".11:31
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Stskeepsare we talking about debian-legal being honourable people? ;)11:31
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jacekowskibecause these are funny legal issues11:32
PaulFertserGuys, i came to get some support wrt bootloader. Not to be bullied again for being (relatively) sane and honest.11:33
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jacekowskithing is that we don't believe that debian-legal issues are sane11:34
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X-FadePaulFertser: Why don't you take my advice and ask your contact at Nokia for a PR1.3 legacy image.11:35
X-FadePaulFertser: A lot easier and it will work :)11:35
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PaulFertserjacekowski: you're dragging me into a conversation about "this world is so insane that you even can not notice it anymore" etc etc. Sorry, i'd prefer to discuss specs or mtd layout or anything not so flamous.11:36
PaulFertserX-Fade: i have no contact at Nokia, only Quim, but he doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about BLs.11:36
Stskeepsjust say 'firmware image matching the prototype, ie, a LEGACY image' and he'd probably know what to do..11:37
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PaulFertserStskeeps: i guess he'll get me the original pre-MP image if i ask him.11:37
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PaulFertserStskeeps: also it makes zero sense to bother him about full image when i only need some _info_ about the bootloader.11:37
X-FadePaulFertser: No, he is not dumb ;) This is a well known thing inside.11:37
StskeepsPaulFertser: well, the legacy has bootloader/cmt support for those particular hardwares11:38
X-FadeAnyway, good luck ;)11:38
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PaulFertserX-Fade: i never implied he's dumb. I'm sure he's not. But i hasn't seen a single line of code from him either.11:39
StskeepsPaulFertser: and easiest way to get those is well, asking for a legacy image11:39
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iksaifanyone with some time to test an app ? lugdulov (0.3, in extra-dev, need PR 1.3) seems to crash on some devices, but I can't reproduce it. If anyone could reproduce that and give me a backtrace it would be great !11:50
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PaulFertseriksaif: let me try11:53
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PaulFertseriksaif: yes, reproduced here.11:54
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PaulFertseriksaif: i'll provide you with BT soon.11:55
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CokeHey guys. Trying to get the latest update in, but it says I need some PC suite yada. I'm on 64-bit linux so that shit ain't gonna happen, how do I get past this backup nonsense?11:55
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CokeIs there a workaround or can I just ignore all future upgrades?11:55
iksaifPaulFertser: thanks :)11:56
PaulFertseriksaif: here it is:
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CokeReading forums I see mixed replies. Some say it has to do with rootfs being full, uninstall all custom apps and continue from there. Some other says there's no need and that it "just worked" without PC suite and backups.11:57
iksaifhum this seems to come from QtLocation/liblocation11:57
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iksaifPaulFertser: could you send me a dpkg -l | grep -i location ?11:57
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iksaifhum, same version :/12:00
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PaulFertseriksaif: bike sharing? sounds interesting :)12:00
iksaifyeah .. but also sounds broken :p12:01
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iksaifbut bike sharing like "city bike sharing services", most big cities have one12:02
PaulFertseriksaif: hey, i started "nokia maps" and then lugdulov and it didn't segfault this time.12:03
iksaifyep ... this seems to be a bug related to QtLocation  / liblocation12:04
iksaifbut I don't know why it works on my device :/12:04
fralsCoke: it should say what the update conflicts with if you click details12:05
Cokei dont have that option12:05
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CokeI only have "Create backup" or cancel12:05
PaulFertseriksaif: after stopping nokia maps same sefgault.12:06
Cokewait. I uninstalled all extra apps and it actually continues12:06
fralscancel it and go to app manager and long tap on the update -> details12:06
CokeWhat is the disk size on the N900, less than 2Gb ?12:06
fralsdf -h will tell you12:06
frals256mb rootfs or something, 2gb /opt, i *think*12:06
CokeHm, no wonder it's such a pain, only 256m12:07
Cokewell, I just uninstalled everything not necessary12:07
iksaifPaulFertser: do you have any other app using qtm-location ?12:07
CokeSeems to be downloading OK now.12:07
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PaulFertseriksaif: i've no idea :)12:07
PaulFertseriksaif: btw, can this be related: ?12:07
Cokefrals: any easy way of increasing the rootfs size?12:08
iksaifPaulFertser: the backtrace looks the same, but the issue wasn't here on PR 1.2 :/12:09
fralsCoke: unless you want to resolder a new nand chip, i dont think so? could probably hack around it with mountpoints, i think theres a wiki page about it12:09
Cokefrals: nah. i guess i'll just have to get used to not having apps on it12:10
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CokeI guess the old iPhone4 mantra "it has apps" is finally paying of for the Apple fanboys12:10
PaulFertseriksaif: still that discussion looks related. Well, i'm open to do more tests, feel free to ping me.12:10
iksaifok thanks12:11
Cokefrals: hm, perhaps I can simply change the place where dpkg puts cached packages12:11
fralsCoke: most apps should be installed to /opt/ so its not really an issue12:12
fralsunless someone fucked up, but then it shouldnt be in extras/ovi :p12:12
fralsand if its not in extras/ovi its not supproted, etc ;)12:12
Cokefrals: i use extras12:13
Cokebut I just assume they use /opt as well12:13
CokeOVI, I wouldn't touch it.12:13
CokeHaving a full linux system on your phone and still insisting on running non-free apps just seems counter productive to me. :)12:13
Cokethe package manager is getting on my last nerve tho. never seen a system with so few packages installed so incredibly slow. not sure if it's a problem with the disk or if someone put sleep(3000) syscall in some loop12:14
iksaifPaulFertser: just a question, before the crash: do you see any gps related message ? is the icon blinjing ?12:15
PaulFertseriksaif: i'm not looking at the screen, i'm using ssh over wifi :)12:15
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fralsCoke: if you have some experience using debian id suggest using apt instead, thats what i do :P12:15
PaulFertseriksaif: this might give more clues:
Cokefrals: is it faster than the app manager?12:16
Cokefrals: and, yes, while we are trying to migrate away from debian here we still have two boxes. I was a devout Debian fan, maybe 4-5 years ago.12:16
fralsyes, it skips a bunch of extra checks that ham does and well, you dont get the ui annoyance :P12:16
sivangmorning all12:17
iksaifPaulFertser: thanks, I'll try to investigate using your bt12:17
sivanghey frals, others12:17
Cokefrals: luckily, Maemo only use the package manager, not the package maintainers. :)12:18
sivangCoke: is this about the PR1.3 conflict upgrade?12:18
Cokesivang: i think that's taken care of, actually.12:19
* sivang apologizes to jump into the discussion12:19
CokeI just uninstalled everything I had installed from extra12:19
sivangCoke: It was?12:19
Cokesivang: yes. I pressume I just had to free up some rootfs space12:19
sivangCoke: and it work? I hear a lot of reports about 1.3 breaking many things so I was a bit scared to try it12:19
Cokesivang: Oh, it isn't finished yet12:19
CokeEven though it's upgrading, the package system is just horribly slow12:19
sivangCoke: there was reported to be a conflicting packages, qt tests something etc.12:20
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CokeBeen about 30 minutes of just "checking for updates", "downloading" and "installing"12:20
sivangCoke: I forgot what it was but lbt_ had to remove it to have it run12:20
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Cokesivang: ill continue to install and get back to you in like 30 minutes with the results12:20
sivangCoke: Yes, same here, I just stopped it in the middle reading the comments on #maemo about what upgrade did to several folks, I'll wait for a fix12:20
lbt_a recent post on maemo-planet found some others12:21
sivanglbt_: I would say we should have a page on the wiki with all pitfalls of the upgrade and strong warning12:21
sivanglbt_: just because the update manager blinks that yellow icon does not mean peeople should blindly upgrade I guess :)12:21
lbt_well, it should also report the apps that depend on things that conflict :)12:22
sivanglbt_: like
povbotBug 11480: PR1.3 broke libclutter-1.4, bug in file libGLESv2.so12:22
lbt_one should be able to do a root-cause (in deb-land) as you have the concept of 'auto-installed-to-satisfy-dependencies'12:23
chem|stCoke: I got 100+ apps installed and 68.8MB 69%used at /12:23
sivanglbt_: yes, or those that are going to possibly 'break'12:23
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sivanglbt_: I hope this will be better for MeeGo12:23
* sivang adds HAM to discussion points at talk12:23
lbt_sivang: not sure ... but the feature is important12:23
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chem|stCoke: unoptified devel will fill that up pretty fast sure12:24
lbt_of coursr meego compliance means that apps can't have deps12:24
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lbt_so the app mgr doesn't have to deal with them12:24
lbt_so it won't12:24
lbt_so it'll all break horribly12:24
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* lbt_ is such a realist ;)12:24
X-FadeYeah, that is bad/sad.12:24
sivanglbt_: hehe12:24
chem|stlbt_: it does in info (tell what conflicts)12:25
sivangX-Fade: At least it will *prevent* release managers from releasing breaking/broken stuff12:25
sivangor at least, so I hope.12:25
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sivangIt is getting harder and harder to defend Maemo/N900 with this sort of things happening. My N900 fan boss recently left for iPhone... he said "I need a phone that works". :-/12:26
PaulFertseriksaif: heh, is that liblocation0 proprietary?12:26
sivanganyway- enough ranting, on to productive work!12:26
* sivang is sure 1.3 will get some maintainance fixes soon12:27
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Robot101lbt_: meego... apps... no... deps... what?!12:27
sivangwhen they will be out, I'll tell him to upgrade- he waits for my word on it and my half educated advice was to wait with it, given the reports12:27
Robot101lbt_: because that works so well on macos?12:27
sivangRobot101: Surprised as you12:27
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lbt_Robot101: read the backlog... :)12:27
lbt_you mean compliance?12:28
sivanglbt_: so everything has to be slef contained and use only what's already installed on the device?12:28
lbt_yeah... you can only depend on stuff on the device12:28
Stskeepsif you want to be compliant..12:28
lbt_which means theres' no conflicts12:28
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Stskeepsdoesn't mean it doesn't work12:28
X-FadeSo you can have 20 times the same lib on your device. :)12:28
lbt_and no conflict resolution required for an app-mgr that only deals with "compliant" apps :)12:28
PaulFertserRST38h: now you might want to explain to iksaif how to debug a segfault inside a library for which "apt-get source" doesn't work. :|12:29
fralsuh, what kind of issues with 1.3? not encountered any at all since i installed it12:29
lbt_which is what the feature will be12:29
lbt_so the bug fixes will be marked "wishlist"12:29
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lbt_Robot101, Stskeeps... at least, I can see that as being a knock-on effect of the compliance issue.12:30
sivangX-Fade: why 20 times?12:30
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X-Fadesivang: Each app has to pack it's own 3rd partly libs then.12:30
lcukwill we see soft dependencies and dlsym!12:30
lcuk? even12:31
sivanghmm.... feels like, feels like..... Symbian? :-P12:31
X-Fadesivang: So if you have something that is really common, but not in meego, you will have it a lot of times on device.12:31
sivangX-Fade: and then rootfs will be out of space and I will need to do manual seasoned linux admin space freeing?12:31
sivangnice :)12:31
X-Fadesivang: Well, I guess that app storage and root will be separated. If they have thought it through ;)12:32
sivangX-Fade: Can this be made sure?12:32
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X-FadeDon't look at me ;)12:32
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lbt_there are definite +ves to having a category of "will work" apps... the problem is that the wording is hugely antagonistic to all other categories12:33
sivangwell, at least this means we still have a world of work to do :)12:33
lbt_it strongly suggests that all othe apps are "not meego compliant" ... when a marketing/product manager sees that they will immediately dismiss such apps.12:34
PaulFertseriksaif: in fact i'm not fair enough, it seems its QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper::start gives wrong address (0x08) to gpsd_start.12:34
lbt_and *that* screws the pooch12:34
PaulFertseriksaif: to location_gpsd_control_start12:34
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sivanglbt: right12:37
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sivanglbt: and for an app to be deemed compliant it has to pass the compliance tests as in the acceptance testing of images?12:38
sivanglbt: or just be scanned for its deps, and rejected if deps are outside of system's runime?12:38
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Jucatois there a sort of recovery (terminal) mode for the n900? :D12:39
X-Fadesivang: That depends, but checking deps is easy.12:39
sivangX-Fade: true12:39
* sivang moves this to #meego-dev12:39
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sivangerr, to #meego, preferably12:40
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chem|stdoes for anyone the automatic time update work? my clock is about 7minutes ahead12:41
phellarvchem|st: ntpdate?12:42
phellarvor ntpd12:42
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jacekowskichem|st: use gps12:42
sivangfrals: there were some12:43
sivangfrals: messaging ui borking, clutter stuff, broken deps :)12:43
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chem|stjacekowski: how does the clock automatic update work without gps?12:43
sivangSabach El Noor MohammadAG :)12:44
MohammadAGmorning sivang :)12:44
sivangMohammadAG: although it is almost noon :)12:44
MohammadAGit's IRC, isn't it :)12:44
sivangit is :)12:44
jacekowskichem|st: it doesn't12:44
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jacekowskichem|st: it needs gsp12:45
chem|stjacekowski: so only gps...12:45
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tybolltanyone successfully sent contacts via sms from N900 to a android phone?12:45
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chem|stwell my last use was about 6 days ago makes 1 minute off a day12:45
PaulFertseriksaif: the problem is rather somewhere in QtMobility::LiblocationWrapper that supplies some wrong pointer instead of the result of the liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default()12:46
chem|sttybollt: nope12:46
chem|sttybollt: but afair BT did work12:47
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PaulFertseriksaif: in fact liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default is not getting called at all.12:47
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tybolltI sent this contact to missus android several times - every single sms was received (receive verification) but she says her phone didn't receive anything...12:48
chem|sttybollt: don't know realy but I think it is an android problem as you send std vcards with n90012:48
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chem|sttybollt: have you tried detail and card?12:49
tybolltprobably android12:50
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tybolltI bet; the vcard is detected and redirected verbatim by Googlers to googlers.12:50
chem|stas detail sends maximum a single sms but card might be 212:50
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chem|sttybollt: google it ;)12:51
PaulFertseriksaif: do you like this trick? ;)
chem|stjacekowski: ok gps is on and time is still ahead (for minutes), is there a way to trigger it?12:54
jacekowskiit should update as soon as it gets lock12:56
chem|stok then there is something wrong!12:56
chem|stI tried Nokia maps, gps-testing env from nokia, gpsjini and so on...12:57
chem|st12:04 still12:57
ieatlintthe phone can update its clock via gps?12:58
lcuko_O tracy just came to me after a google image search for "scary pumpkin faces" with a really dodgy site from the !first! image result o_O12:58
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ieatlinti didn't know it had support for using that... awesome12:59
ieatlintthought it could only use the cell tower's clock12:59
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chem|stieatlint: no it cant! grml12:59
chem|stieatlint: cell tower would be a good idea but mine does not update anything... I am 7 minutes off and dont know why13:00
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ieatlintwell, i know it works with the cell tower13:00
ieatlintperhaps your cell tower is 7 minutes off, heh13:00
chem|stjust trying that... but a friend of mine, about 400m away has exact time13:01
chem|stok time is not getting updated at all13:02
chem|stset to 11:57 now13:02
ieatlinthuh, well, i can find nothing that supports the idea that maemo 5 does support updating system time from gps13:02
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PaulFertseriksaif: do you ever call QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ?13:02
ieatlintbut apparently ntp is in the repos, and it's definitely possible to find or write an app that will get a gps lock and set the time from it13:03
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ieatlintif you have data, ntp is easier/faster/more reliable13:03
ieatlint(by reliable, i mean you can't always get a gps lock)13:03
iksaifPaulFertser: sorry I was afk13:03
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iksaifPaulFertser: this function should by called by QtMobility13:05
iksaifall I do is ask QtLocation  for the default localisation device13:05
ieatlintPaulFertser: i'm curious, you reference QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo::init ... i've been using qtmobility 1.0 on the n900, and there is no maemo specific class to my knowledge (and QGeoPositionInfoSource has no init() method)13:06
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PaulFertserieatlint: hm, so that might well be the reason.13:07
PaulFertserieatlint: look at
ieatlinti'm pulling up the qtmobility 1.1 docs... suppose i should be looking at them now13:08
PaulFertserieatlint: nah, the source is better ;)13:08
ieatlinthah, right :P13:08
MohammadAGX-Fade, pin13:08
ieatlintanywhere in particular in that file?13:08
iksaifPaulFertser: qt-mobility git is 1.2, maemo use 1.0.213:08
ieatlintah, i see it referencing QGeoPositionInfoSourceMaemo13:08
X-FadeMohammadAG: pong13:08
PaulFertseriksaif: too bad for maemo :)13:09
ieatlinti'd guess that's the maemo implementation for qtmobility location services...13:09
ieatlintmeant to be only used by qtmobility, and not by app devs13:09
iksaifI should fill a bug report, but first I need to be able to reproduce the issue on a small test case13:09
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MohammadAGX-Fade, I got the repository set up, but HAM's ignoring community-ssu-enabler13:10
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iksaifand I'm not able to reproduce the crash on lugdulov .. maybe you have some special settings for your gps?13:10
PaulFertseriksaif: the strange thing is that some other apps (maemo maps) are able to somehow influence this process and they call proper functions.13:10
PaulFertseriksaif: not that i know of.13:10
infoboti guess xyawn is big coffee13:10
X-FadeMohammadAG: Is it in a user/* section?13:10
iksaiftime to eat, be back later13:10
MohammadAGSection: user/system13:11
MohammadAGnot that it should matter13:11
ieatlintPaulFertser: ah, i actually only just now scrolled up to see the full details of what you're talking about13:11
MohammadAGit says ignoring version from wrong domain13:11
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ieatlintyou're issue is that on maemo5, sometimes using qtm-location will cause a segfault, sometimes it will never launch liblocation and even try to get a lock, and sometimes it will work perfectly13:12
MohammadAGX-Fade, can you see if the .install file works for you?13:12
PaulFertserieatlint: not exactly, iksaif wrote an app on his own that tries to use location services.13:12
PaulFertserieatlint: the 1.0 branch looks the same13:13
ieatlintany of that match?13:14
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chem|stopenntp installed...13:14
PaulFertserieatlint: hm, what do you mean?13:14
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ieatlinti mean when you try to get a lock, with QGeoPositionSource::createDefaultSource() and then the startUpdates() method, it does not reliably start the gps device13:16
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jarkkomhmm, that seems weird, I've written couple of apps and didn't see anything like that13:18
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ieatlintwere they tiny apps?13:18
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jarkkomthough I had some interesting bugs when I was drawing map and GPS location fix too its time, apparently if you're drawing ellipse that is waaaaayyy offscreen device gets permanently stuck in QT rendering code :)13:19
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jarkkombecause of uninitialized variables13:19
ieatlintok, doesn't sound like it then, hehe13:19
PaulFertserieatlint: looks like that, in the failing case the liblocation method to get default source is never called.13:19
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jarkkomhow are you initializing your positionsource though?13:20
ieatlintPaulFertser: ah.. well, i've had similar experience13:20
jarkkomI mean maybe if you give it a parent QObject that then gets deleted and location source gets deleted as well?13:20
PaulFertserjarkkom: localisation = QGeoPositionInfoSource::createDefaultSource(this);13:20
jarkkomyeah but what is "this" in that case?13:20
PaulFertserjarkkom: MainWindow13:20
jarkkomshouldn't be a problem then13:21
PaulFertserjarkkom: i'm telling you, i used gdb to place breakpoint on liblocation_gpsd_control_get_default and it's never called on the failing case.13:22
ieatlintjarkkom: is my test app13:22
ieatlintcan provide the .h if you'd like13:22
ieatlint(and the project file and main.cpp)13:22
PaulFertserieatlint: do you mean you can reproduce too?13:23
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ieatlintPaulFertser: yes, but not always13:23
ieatlinti wrote an app, then tried to add a gps feature to it... and it would only work about half the time13:23
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ieatlintso i took the gps code, and made that test app, that just starts the gps device and prints out the lat/lon it gets13:24
ieatlintto help with debugging13:24
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jarkkomthat code looks ok though13:25
ieatlintthat app works for me about 80% of the time, and the other 20% it will never start location-daemon (and no gps icon appears in status bar).  it will send "updates" from the gps -- but the QGeoPositionInfo is always empty13:25
PaulFertserjarkkom: probably LibLocationWrapper instance gets unreferenced somehow or something...13:26
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* alterego just found the stylesheet stuff in QML to allow you to theme stuff sort of natively :D13:26
DocScrutinizer +++ , anybody?13:27
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ieatlinti haven't actually tested it since the pr1.3 update... but i know i was already running qtm-location 1.0.2, so i doubt anything was changed13:27
Cokesivang: still here?13:28
Cokesivang: the update was installed and after a reboot everything seems to work just fine.13:29
PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: how to run it if the screen is locked?13:29
Cokesivang: at a glance, I would say that the update is safe.13:29
PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: ah, nvm, but i'm not really on stock kernel though changes are minimal and unrelated.13:29
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DocScrutinizerPaulFertser: via ssh, or simply lock the screen after firing the cmd13:30
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MohammadAGyay, two N8s incoming13:31
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* MohammadAG ponders taking the OTG adapter, his dad won't use it13:31
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PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: sorry, running a kernel modified enough here, i hope someone else will easily do that.13:33
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ieatlintDocScrutinizer: do you care if the phone is not fully charged?13:34
ieatlintas in, plugged into wall charger; currently charging13:34
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PaulFertserDocScrutinizer: btw, looks like the command for boostoff i use is incorrect, it doesn't cut power immediately.13:34
CokeIs there some application similar to mirror that will allow me to record/snapshot/view from the front camera, but that does not require 22M of Python stuff?13:34
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: we seem to have confirmed plugging charger makes pr1.3 kernel run CPU @ 500MHz *all the time*, while PR1.2 kernel is ok13:35
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ieatlintyes, my results support that13:36
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ieatlintnot charging, 94% at 250mhz, whereas when on wall charger, 99% at 500mhz13:37
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, isn't that the same but with a USB cable on PR1.2?13:37
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DocScrutinizeresp 0% in C413:38
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ieatlintDocScrutinizer: is this the same when connected on usb?13:41
DocScrutinizerieatlint: I haven't tested yet13:42
ieatlintgrabbed my usb cable, testing now13:45
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Venemohi guys13:47
Venemohow is it possible to make the tracker script not to index pictures in my .sounds folder on the N900?13:47
Venemoit annoys me to see the album arts in the photos app13:47
MohammadAG+1 on that13:47
lcukin the tracker config you can blacklist folders13:48
Venemook, where's that config?13:48
MohammadAGbut that blacklists all media from them lcuk13:48
mgedmin~curse tracker13:48
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, tracker !13:48
Venemo~nuke tracker13:48
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at tracker ... B☢☢M!13:48
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mgedminsanest solution would be to have a .trackerignore in each directory, listing filename patterns13:49
mgedminsort of like .gitignore13:49
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mgedmindoes VFAT support filenames that start with a dot?13:49
lcukwindows does not though!13:49
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: yeah... on usb, also appears to be always at 500mhz13:49
ieatlintidentical to wall charger13:49
DocScrutinizerieatlint: it's just 2(and a half) things I'm concerned about: it seems under PR1.3 kernel A) LiIon cell is kept floating at maximum charge voltage, which is said to kill the cell, and B) the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz, which according to Nokia HW guy (Igor?) is an absolute NoGo. Plus the half thing is about hostmode where this seems to bite us as well13:50
Venemoanyways, can I do this in a sane ways right now?13:50
* mgedmin edits ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg13:50
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, so on a hostmode PR1.3 kernel, it always runs @ 500?13:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer: "the CPU spinning empty at 500MHz" where did you get this from?13:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: probably on a pr1.3 kernel with vboost, yes it does13:51
DocScrutinizerno matter if hostmode kernel or not13:51
MohammadAGdid you track down the line in kernel diff?13:51
mgedminI do not understand tracker13:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo: from powertop13:51
SpeedEvilon bat you mean too?13:51
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alteregoIf only Qt included an RDF parser13:52
mgedminit has WatchDirectoryRoots listing MyDocs/.sounds, .documents etc.13:52
ruskiemgedmin, only need to understand enough of it to disable it ;)13:52
VenemoDocScrutinizer: interesting13:52
mgedminbut tracker indexes images under MyDocs/Books even though that's not listed in WatchDirectoryRoots13:52
alteregoAnd I had access to it in QML js13:52
ruskiemgedmin, Watch isn't what you think it is13:52
lcukmgedmin, does it have MyDocs/ as a root itself13:52
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: not yet tested, but it feels like a good explanation for MohammadAG 's reported powerhog in PR1.3 with hostmode13:52
Venemomgedmin: how do I block it from indexing images from .sounds?13:52
mgedminlcuk, no13:52
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: that sounds awesome ... :(13:53
ruskieiirc by default it will index the entire device13:53
mgedminruskie, that's what I think too13:53
Venemomgedmin: keep in mind that I still want it to index sounds from .sounds13:53
ruskiethere's allowed and denied stuff iirc13:53
SpeedEvilVenemo: you can13:53
SpeedEvilVenemo: read the tracker config file13:53
ruskieatm can't check since my n900 is in limbo13:53
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SpeedEvilexcludedroots will tell it what roots not to index13:53
SpeedEvilthen you can include dirs and subdirs explicitly13:54
DocScrutinizerand still it seems to index stuff that shouldn't - but maybe that's me and my rotten brain13:54
VenemoSpeedEvil: no match for the word 'excluded' in that file13:54
SpeedEvilI would suggest reading it then.13:54
SpeedEvilIt's not exactly long.13:54
mgedminthere's NoWatchDirectory13:55
mgedmin"NOT to index and NOT to watch"13:55
VenemoSpeedEvil: there is WatchDirectoryRoots=$HOME/MyDocs/.sounds/;$HOME/MyDocs/.documents/;$HOME/MyDocs/.videos/;$HOME/MyDocs/.images/;$HOME/MyDocs/.camera/;13:55
VenemoSpeedEvil: however if I take out .sounds, it won't index music files from there either13:55
SpeedEviltake out sounds13:56
SpeedEviladd the directory in sounds you want to index13:56
mgedminbloody ukeyboard tells me (with a f%@#ing modal dialog) that I can select new keyboard layouts in the settings app every f%$#ing time on upgrade13:56
VenemoSpeedEvil: ok. so you don't understand13:56
VenemoSpeedEvil: if I copy any album of any artist to the device, there is an album art image in there, in every folder13:57
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VenemoSpeedEvil: those files are created by Windows for its convenience and it regenerates them all the time so I can't delete all of 'em13:57
ruskieanyone managed to load the  meego-handset-armv7l-n900 1.1 successfully?13:58
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ruskieI dded the raw to the microsd card13:58
ruskiebut it says it can't find any supported FS when booting on the phone13:58
mgedminthis trackerũbereagerness wouldn't bother me if the Images app started with "filter: Camera folder" by default, instead of "All images"13:58
ruskieusing: flasher-3.5 -k meego-handset-armv7l-n900- -l -b   to boot13:58
infobotmgedmin meant: this trackerübereagerness wouldn't bother me if the Images app started with "filter: Camera folder" by default, instead of "All images"13:59
chem|struskie: yes and it's not worth it yet13:59
SpeedEvilthat's thumbnailer, which is seperate from tracker I think.13:59
ruskiechem|st, I need it atm13:59
ruskiemy base kernel is dead13:59
ruskieand can't restore other than booting into a secondary os13:59
ruskiebut I can't boot into a secondary os since it says no root device14:00
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chem|struskie: ouch14:00
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chem|stare you within linux or windows14:00
ruskiedid you do anything special to get it to work?14:00
ruskieI followed this:
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MohammadAGI think you'll get better answers in #meego14:01
chem|stok the partition table should show 2 partition I think it was one logic and one extended14:01
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ruskieone is swap14:01
ruskiethe other btrfs14:01
ruskiecan mount the btrfs one here normaly14:02
chem|stok no idea go ==> #meego ...14:02
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CokeAny ideas why the front camera is showing a green video in mplayer?14:02
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chem|stCoke: you mean greenish or a lighting green?14:03
Coketinted, sort of14:04
chem|stCoke: it gets better with enough light but I don't know, in PR1.2 it was just fine afair14:04
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chem|stCoke: maybe adjusting settings will help14:05
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Cokechem|st: it's daylight here with the sun streaming in, no less than 4 flourescent tubes also14:06
chem|stare there settings for tv: in mplayer is a good question...14:06
lcukmerlin1991, whats this bug you noticed in browser?14:06
Cokechem|st: basically, mplayer has worked fine with every v4l2 video device I ever tested it on14:06
chem|stCoke: make a screenshot pls I'd like to compare with mine14:07
merlin1991if the n900 is up for some time the first window with the favourites list glitches in a way that you can't scroll to the last entry, it jumps back to the 1st all the time14:07
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Venemomerlin1991: go to and report it14:07
Cokechem|st: that would be too much work. first snapshot image, transfer to my PC, upload to a location you can access.14:07
CokeNah. I'll just settle with the fact that it doesn't work.14:07
chem|stCoke: send an email...14:08
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Venemohm... what surprises me is that the N900 is thicker than the N81014:08
Cokechem|st: no, but thanks for the help14:08
chem|stCoke: ok ;)14:08
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mgedminheavier, too, iirc14:08
Cokechem|st: as a sidenote, v4l2 is rubbish. Half the controls never work and no UVC14:09
chem|stCoke: the greenish here is more like a tinte14:09
SpeedEvilI want UVC14:09
SpeedEvilUVC would be nice.14:09
CokeSpeedEvil: you can always use the external uvcvideo driver14:09
Cokeand libuvc14:09
SpeedEvilPlug it in, and two cameras, and a mic pop up.14:09
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Cokebut it won't work with any normal v4l2 software14:09
Venemomgedmin: yeah, heavier too, because it is loaded with more tech14:09
SpeedEvilI mean gadget UVC14:09
mgedminsweet sweet tech14:10
SpeedEvilIt looks like a camera to PCs you plug it into14:10
lcukVenemo, extra camera required in base unit14:10
CokeLinux in general sucks big time when it comes to webcams, most of it because webcam vendors dont care about standards that much.14:10
mgedminwhat's uvc?14:10
mgedminah, usb video14:10
Cokeuniversal video control or something14:10
mgedminon one hand it would be nice to have the n900 act as a web cam14:10
mgedminon the other hand, video quality is kinda crap14:11
Cokemgedmin: no, not for that. :)14:11
Venemolcuk: yeah, probably that's the reason14:11
Cokeit was just a side note, that Linux generally suck with webcams, in particular UVC14:11
chem|stSpeedEvil: that is what I mentioned month ago, wouldn't it be nice to export all those fancy gadgets to your PC?! like GPSmouse UVC and so on just by USBdevice handling?!14:11
alteregoIs it safe to create /home/user/.profile?14:11
chem|stCoke: true14:11
alteregoI vaguely remember people complaing about infinite reboots when they messed with shell initialization ...14:11
mgedminalterego, I have a ~/.profile on my n90014:11
chem|stCoke: at least for most webcams I know, the one in my netbook is doing fine with v4l2 and/or uvc14:12
Cokemgedmin: while it would be a fun experiment to use N900 as a webcam, a normal webcam costs about $40, so...14:12
mgedminI was always afraid my nokia would start boot-looping if I screwed it up, so I never screwed it up14:12
alteregomgedmin: cool, just want a few aliases :)14:12
Cokechem|st: I get really bad results from apps using v4l214:12
alteregomgedmin: sure14:13
chem|stalterego: me too14:13
Cokechem|st: except mplayer and ffmpeg, they just rock the socks out of any device14:13
chem|stCoke: my desktop crashes on v4l2plugins for firefox(iceweasel)14:14
Cokechem|st: v4l2 needs to become v4l3. better hw support and less insane API14:14
chem|stthe netbook is just working (ootb)14:14
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VenemoI simply love the 32 GB space on the N90014:14
CokeYeah, I have a clevo stylenote and a logitech usb cam, both work nicely.14:14
CokeVenemo: I have 32G ????14:15
VenemoI no longer need to think about what music should I copy to it... I copy everything I like14:15
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VenemoCoke: I'm sorry?14:15
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chem|stCoke: my logitech is the one not working since april14:15
alteregoVenemo: got yours back now? :D14:15
CokeVenemo: I recently upgraded my N900, it required me to uninstall loads of shit to get space for the 85M download.14:15
rasteraaaah good sammy14:15
CokeWhy the fuck would I uninstall anything with 32G?14:15
rasteropensourcing gpu drivers14:15
VenemoCoke: the 32GB is not the rootfs. :)14:15
CokeVenemo: no, but does it matter?14:16
Venemoalterego: no, they couldn't fix it... so they replaced it14:16
CokeVenemo: I mean, they could have put the rootfs anywhere they want14:16
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VenemoCoke: yes, it does. the 32G is a build-in memory card14:16
CokeI'd gladly give up 16G to get just 1G of more rootfs14:16
chem|stCoke: in case of speed they cannot do14:16
CokeWhat speed?14:16
CokeIt takes about 10 minutes to update the lists in the package manager.14:17
alteregoVenemo: even better ;)14:17
SpeedEvilrootfs is a seperate 256M device14:17
chem|stCoke: thats HAM if you apt-get update it takes a few seconds14:17
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CokeObviously, the rootfs device is too small anyway.14:17
Venemoalterego: yeah. this one seems a bit different though14:17
Cokechem|st: noted. I've stopped using the app manager now14:17
VenemoCoke: yeah, that's what optification is for14:18
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Coke256M + 32G. What a waste. 32G of space I will NEVER use14:18
chem|stCoke: to store there stuff yes, for a / file system no14:18
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Cokeand 256M that will constantly be full14:18
alteregomgedmin: that's pretty much exactly what I've done, though I've also added a . ~/aliasrc14:18
alteregowhich has a load of aliases14:18
alteregomostly ssh -t user@host screen -D -RR14:19
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chem|stvar should be anywhere else14:19
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Cokehave a nice weekend dudes and dudettes14:20
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chem|stalterego: -D -RR? -rd for servers for me...14:21
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Venemoalterego: next week I'll start looking through your stuff in depth14:21
Venemoalterego: not in the weekend though, cause I'm going home to my family and I won't bring with me my computer14:22
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Venemo~seen Khertan14:22
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 8m 19s ago, saying: 'someone have the right to admin maemo builder ? seems he didn't want to build my package :)'.14:22
Venemoalterego: do you remember the thingy that we figured out? the trick to open the main menu of the app in a Maemo app?14:23
alteregoYes, it's in that code14:24
lcukandre__, re bug 11485 its possible he could have bad bookmarks, i don't experience this problem on my device can someone confirm if it happens on theirs?14:25
povbotBug favourites list scrolling jumps back to first entry14:25
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chem|stlcuk: uptime 20h and no jumpback, I will try again 2morrow14:28
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Venemoalterego: k :)14:30
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alteregoLook at the Maemo5MenuButton code, it's basically a button to open the menu when in fullscreen.14:31
Venemoalterego: okay14:31
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lcukthanks chem|st - my feeling too, i wonder where the bookmarks are stored so he can test clearing them and seeing if it was some kind of bad one14:32
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kthomas_vhMohammadAG,  any chance you're still interested in the N810W?14:35
VenemoMohammadAG: is the community SSU _S_SU now?14:35
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MohammadAGkthomas_vh, short on money, or actually, I need the money for something else14:36
MohammadAGsorry :|14:36
MohammadAGVenemo, yes, sort of, I still don't get why the terminal window isn't launched from postinst14:36
kthomas_vhnp,  I have to fly on Sunday and was looking to lower my weight :)14:36
MohammadAGVenemo, other than that, yes, it is SSU and not on an external site14:36
VenemoMohammadAG: ok, I'll try it now from PR 1.314:37
MohammadAGVenemo, see channel14:37
VenemoMohammadAG: k14:37
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kthomas_vhotherwise, it is easy to sell in the US14:37
Kaadlajklcuk: i believe bookmarks are in /home/user/.mozilla/microb/places.sqlite14:38
lcukthanks Kaadlajk \o14:38
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iksaifPaulFertser: could you try "Zouba" it also uses libqtm-location ?14:41
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PaulFertseriksaif: hm possibly14:42
iksaifand PaulFertser could check your gps settings ? (if netowrk localisation if enabled, and if gps is enabled)14:43
PaulFertseriksaif: yes, yes, yes14:43
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PaulFertseriksaif: hm, zouba seems to start nicely every time (with sat receiver icon blinking etc)14:47
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iksaifbut it was built against PR 1.2 .. so it doesn't necessary tell us something14:47
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PaulFertseriksaif: ldd output looks limilar14:50
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PaulFertseriksaif: sorry, no idea about the actual difference between the two apps...14:59
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fcrochikhi...can anybody help me with two questions on linux: can any think of a reason why "/opt/crochik/geeps > /home/user/MyDocs/geepslog.txt" would not work? the file is created but I still see the output on the screen :(15:03
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achipafcrochik: stderr instead of sdout ?15:03
fcrochik2nd: is there a simple "script" I can run that will find a line "Backend=maemo5-crochik" and replace it with "Backend=maemo5" w/o messing with the other lines?15:04
fcrochikachipa: should be stdout ( qDebug() << ...)15:04
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PaulFertserfcrochik: sed -i 's/^Backend=maemo5-crochik$/Backend=maemo5/' file-you-want-to-change15:05
fcrochikPaulFertser: I will give a try....thanks!15:05
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mgedminfcrochik, "The Qt implementation of these functions prints the text to the stderr output under Unix/X11 and Mac OS X."15:08
mgedminabout qDebug()15:08
fcrochikmgedmin: the funny thing is that it used to work... is it possible that has changed with qt4.715:09
mgedminwhile qInstallMsgHandler says that the default handler "prints the message to the standard output under X11 "15:09
mgedminyay for self-contradictory documentation15:09
* mgedmin hates Qt15:09
chem|sthas anyone managed to cast sound with pulse? (rtp-sink)15:09
fcrochikmgedmin: oh...wait a minute... I think the application that used to work actually "install a handler" and this one doesn't15:09
fcrochikmgedmin: so my question should be how do I redirect the stderr ? :)15:10
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fcrochikmgedmin: great! works like a charm!15:13
ieatlintyou can also redirect stdout and stderr to the same file with: "./app > output.txt 2>&1" :P15:13
fcrochikPaulFertser: thank you. It did the trick...15:13
PaulFertserfcrochik: that's unix for you15:13
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fcrochikPaulFertser: great! I will add to the belt... sure it will be handy many times15:15
PaulFertserfcrochik: "man sed" is even more useful15:17
ruskieomg... managed to save my install through meego15:19
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crashanddie"A private telecom firm took high speed Internet facilities to the top of the world on Thursday when it launched Nepal's first 3G services at the base camp of Mount Everest."15:29
* crashanddie predicts future tweets: "LOL, Took this picture at top of Evrst with new White #iPhone 4"15:30
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fcrochikPaulFertser: not on the n900 :)15:31
PaulFertserfcrochik: one of the first things i did is apt-got the manpages and the man toolset.15:32
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mgedminso, anybody tried meego 1.1 on the n900 yet?15:33
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phellarvmgedmin: Yes15:33
mgedminis it fast?15:33
phellarvmgedmin: HAHAHA - No.15:34
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pigeonanyone knows where i could download this package?
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phellarvmgedmin: Perhaps with a Class 12 MicroSD...15:34
Venemogoodbye guys15:34
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Sceltphellarv and mgedmin: the first boot is slow15:34
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phellarvScelt: Slow first boot is expected, but the UI and user experience feels sluggish.15:35
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Scelta little but don't think it's about the sd speed15:36
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phellarvScelt: You got a class 6 or better?15:36
phellarvMmm - class 2 is slooooow.15:36
phrykWhat is the grps/gsm device's name in /dev ?15:36
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alteregophryk: I don't think there is one15:41
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alteregomaybe ttyGS?15:42
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phrykdon't have ttyGS, just tty, tty0-63 and ttyS0-315:43
fluxdo I break my system if change user's shell to bash or zsh?15:43
phryknope i don't think so15:43
phrykfrom /etc/passwd15:44
phrykstill works for me15:44
fluxso now it's a matter of only compiling zsh for it, because it appears not to have it :) (unless bash suffices)15:44
fluxphryk, great, thanks!15:44
phrykno problem15:44
fluxphryk, do you have package bash or bash3 installed?15:45
phrykfrom what i have heard, zsh is pure bullshit, codewise15:45
fluxwell, my miles-long initialization files are for zsh ;)15:45
fluxfortunately I haven't taken a look at its source15:45
jacekowskizsh is for sad people15:45
jacekowskii used to use it15:45
fluxzsh has for example approximate path completion, which I imagine could be nice on n90015:46
phrykWhy does the filemanager take the name set for the bluetooth as the name of the device, instead of the hostname?^^15:46
jacekowskiphryk: because hostname is always maemo15:46
phrykjacekowski: nope?^^15:47
phrykhostname for me was "Nokia-N900" or so, and I changed it…15:47
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infobotpr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or, or
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mgedminzsh has a bunch of nifty stuff, and lacks a different bunch of nifty stuff that I'm used to, from bash15:50
mgedminzsh drives me mad15:50
MohammadAGjacekowski, hostname is /etc/hostname15:51
MohammadAGI have it changed15:51
pupnik  clamped 15-bit color subtraction15:51
fluxmgedmin, so, basically, zsh isn't bash..15:51
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mgedminflux, more precisely, zsh is not a superset of bash15:52
mgedminI think zsh is a clone/fork/descendant of ksh15:53
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flashn_its more like the other way around15:53
fluxwell, bash has been busy adding features as well. maybe it's been good for zsh to simply atleast exist15:53
fluxat the time when bash was at 2.0, zsh had all kinds of cool stuff15:53
mgedminzsh still has cool stuff15:54
fluxbut I don't really know what bash nowadays has15:54
mgedminlots of different cool stuff15:54
mgedminmaybe less cool than zsh15:54
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fluxwell, it's not cool if it's in bash. you know, it's the defacto 'vanilla' shell of linux distributions ;-)15:55
mgedminsome things (like putting the name of the running command in xterm title) are _painful_ to do in bash15:55
mgedminbash-completion eats 600ms on startup15:55
mgedminthen again I just measured that zsh also eats 600ms on startup for something15:56
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MohammadAGlol bshno_highlight15:58
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pupnikwe found a great pixel-shader algo.  who can get it running on n900?16:00
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pupnikaha!  clamping integers without conditionals
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rmrfchikmobilehotspot want kernel-power. is it safe for PR1.3?16:13
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jacekowskiphryk: yeah, but you are not a "normal" user16:23
jacekowskiphryk: you can change it, but name that can be changed from gui is only bluetooth name16:23
phrykAh okay16:23
phrykare there… "normal" maemo users?^^16:23
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crashanddieanyone fancy a "Ironette", female iron man costume for halloween?16:26
crashanddieor a bumblebee transformers chick costume?,1200,1,0,016:27
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stef_204hi guys, quick question re. email client in maemo 5 20.2010.36-2 on N900.  The default email client always downloads the full body of email AND any attachments16:29
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stef_204which is a drag on people that have a plan based on data quantity per month16:30
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stef_204anyone knows if 1) can change any settings to make it only download header until email is requested/selected? OR 2) another email client that could be used which wold not have this behavior?16:31
stef_204I tried using "Claws" but still too much in early development and not working well16:31
stef_204I am talking about IMAP btw16:31
phrykIf you are not gui-dependant, you could setup an account with mutt on your machine home and just ssh in there16:33
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phrykBut curses usability is… limited with the little keyboard16:33
mgedminso it's good that most mutt commands are alphabet-based16:34
mgedminj/k etc.16:34
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mgedmin<enter> being <esc>OM in osso-xterm mucks things up a bit16:34
mgedminctrl-j is not a snice16:34
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psYchoticgood day everyone16:36
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stef_204phryk: too complex for me, i'd have to ssh in there all the time, the home machine not always on, etc.16:36
psYchoticI have a question: is there any reason why I don't get a message telling me I can update to PR1.3?16:36
psYchoticI've checked for updates for the past couple of days, but I don't get PR1.316:37
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phrykstef_204: nothing else coming to my mind, sory16:37
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stef_204phryk: fine--there's got to ba a solution--hopefully not hacking in source code of default email client16:38
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mgedminpsYchotic, firmware updates to some locales (especially UK) have been delayed16:40
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psYchoticmgedmin: aha, perhaps that's why16:41
psYchoticany reason why it would be delayed for some locales?16:41
mgedminnokian's haven't built/debugged them yet, would be my guess16:41
mgedmineek, what's that apo'strophe doing there in my 'sentence?16:42
psYchoticit's kinda weird though, what kind of differences are there really between US and UK locales?16:42
psYchoticI'm not even sure what locale my N900's setup for16:43
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ebzzryruskie: Are you there?16:44
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Jef91Anyone here use dropn900 (for dropbox)?17:14
Jef91I installed it yesterday and it refuses to load for me17:15
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Jef91It starts to load when I press the icon and then it just crashes out17:15
MohammadAG51run it from terminal17:15
Myrttithat is always a good start if it's available17:18
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Jef91what is the command mohammadAG51?17:21
Jef91I went to do that but "dropn900" is not a command :-/17:21
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MohammadAG51idk, don't have it, it's probably in /opt/drop something17:22
MohammadAG51use tab17:22
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Jef91wonderful just a general seg fault when I run it :-/17:26
Jef91odds are pr1.3 broke it17:26
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Jef91drat! it was terribly useful too :-/17:27
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alecjwhi, how can i make my media player update my library? at the moment, its only registering my MP3 files17:30
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DocScrutinizerhahaha, I *love* Adobe. Reliably gives my my monthly WTF:
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: nice!17:39
infobotVenemo_N900: aw, gee17:40
DocScrutinizeralecjw: please elaborate17:40
alecjwDocScrutinizer, only my mp3 audio files show up in the media player. the vorbis files dont. i have vorbis extentions installed and i can play them if i search for them via the file browser17:42
DocScrutinizeralecjw: "update" is done by tracker-daemon, not by mediaplayer.17:42
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alecjwit worked perfectly until last night, when i upgraded the maemo OS17:42
alecjwsudo /etc/init.d/tracker-daemon restart or something then?17:42
DocScrutinizerhmm, delete or copy or rename one single file there, it should trigger trackerd to recreate index17:43
MohammadAG51reinstall decoders-support17:43
MohammadAG51or rerun the postinst17:43
DocScrutinizerI hate trackerd! DIE! crap, BURN IN HELL!17:44
MohammadAG51alecjw, /var/lib/dpkg/info/decoders-support.postinst17:45
MohammadAG51as root17:45
Venemo_N900~burn trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you!17:45
* infobot pours gasoline all over trackerd, because DocScrutinizer hates you!, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze17:45
kerio~nuke trackerd17:47
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at trackerd ... B☢☢M!17:47
kerio~nuke pulseaudio17:47
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at pulseaudio ... B☢☢M!17:47
Venemo_N900kerio: on my device, nothing's wrong with PA17:47
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Venemo_N900kerio: I dunno what you have against it17:49
keriotakes more cpu than the decoding of the mp317:49
Venemo_N900how can you tell that?17:50
keriohuh... top17:50
Venemo_N900on my device, cpu usage is on the min when playing mp3s17:50
keriomeh, it could be because i'm using a2dp17:50
alecjwDocScrutinizer, MohammadAG, still nothing. but i have to go now. thanks for your help, ill try again later17:51
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Venemo_N900also, the cpu is not supposed to decode 'em, there's a dsp for that17:51
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crashanddieVenemo_N900, only if it makes sense17:52
Venemo_N900maybe a2dp is what takes your cpu, kerio17:52
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Venemo_N900crashanddie: what do you mean makes sense?17:52
kerio1/0 never makes sense17:53
keriosqrt(-1) makes sense, some times17:53
Venemo_N900kerio: sqrt(-1) = i17:53
kerioVenemo_N900: which doesn't exist on the real axis17:54
keriothat's why i said "some times"17:54
Venemo_N900kerio: yeah :)17:54
_trineI just tried the Nokia BH-905 Stereo Bluetooth Headphones17:54
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_trinethey are very good17:54
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kerioi'm using a pair of sony bt headphones17:55
keriogood battery life, good sound17:55
_trinethe Nokia BH-905 with noise cancelling is fantastic17:56
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_trineeven with no music if I switch on noise cancelling the computer fan noise from my computer completely disappears17:57
_trineand silence reigns17:57
Venemo_N900_trine: sounds nice17:57
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_trineand the range of the BT is impressive17:58
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_trinebefore I tried them I was worried the sound over BT would be crap,,, I was wrong17:59
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GNU\caustichi! i'm trying to update by running apt-get upgrade, but it spits out a list of >1000 packages which are held back. i cannot figure out why they are held back though.18:01
* DocScrutinizer glares at *BURP*18:01
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hrwVenemo_N900: I prefer sqrt(-1) to be 'j' then 'i'18:02
andre__don't use apt-get upgrade...18:02
Venemo_N900hrw: why?18:02
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Venemo_N900andre__: why not?18:03
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GNU\caustichow should i update then without reflashing or using the nokia suite?18:03
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: over the air18:03
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Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: what's the problem with reflashin?18:04
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andre__Venemo_N900: it's not supported, it's not tested, it circumvents h-a-m checks,
povbotBug 6014: apt-get upgrade can result in non-bootable device18:04
GNU\caustici don't have a bigger interest in reconfiguring and reinstalling stuff18:04
hrw|udsVenemo_N900: "i" is used my mathematics. 'j' is used by electrotechnics because for us 'i' is other thing already18:04
DocScrutinizerisn't it strange how it turns out tracker starts with a g*? I should have known, by the hate I feel for trackerd, it can not be anything else than g*18:05
Venemo_N900andre__: well it has always worked for me18:05
* hrw|uds upgraded to pr1.3 with apt-get but I would not say that it was easy ;D18:05
Venemo_N900hrw|uds: yeah, I heard about that18:05
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: does SSU work for you?18:06
hrw|udsVenemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "w+3j"18:06
hrw|udsVenemo_N900: so "2+i3" is "2+3j"18:06
GNU\causticwhy can't stupid apt-get tell why it holds back packages?18:06
DocScrutinizeris there any locale on this earth where g=w ?18:06
DocScrutinizeras it seams gnome shit always been the poor clone of windows philosophy18:06
Venemo_N900hrw|uds: as I'm gonna be an electronic engineer myself, could you tell me what you use i for?18:07
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: why? kde isn't?18:07
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hrw|udsVenemo_N900: I do not remember now after all those years. temporary amperage?18:07
mgedminDocScrutinizer: you're absolutely right, except it's KDE that clones Windows; GNOME tends to clone Mac OS X18:07
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: has KDE an abomination like gconf?18:08
Venemo_N900hrw|uds: I dunno, this is my first year in uni18:08
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: I dunno of its inner workings18:08
DocScrutinizerwhere gconf is an exact copy of registry18:08
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* mgedmin ♥ gconf18:09
mgedminwhat's the icon for hate?18:09
hrw|udsDocScrutinizer: KDE uses .ini style files18:09
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: but at least, when I tried both, I liked gnome's ux more18:09
DocScrutinizerlately somebody started wining as he couldn't make gnome edit .desktop files X-P18:09
DocScrutinizerhrw|uds: I know18:09
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GNU\causticVenemo_N900: whats SSU? :)18:11
infobotrumour has it, ssu is
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Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: seamless software update18:12
GNU\causticyeah, that one doesn't work18:12
GNU\causticit wants to be connected to the nokia suite18:12
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: why not?18:12
GNU\causticdon't have a nokia suite18:12
mgedminGNU\caustic, there's a library, something opengl-related, that prevents SSU upgrades18:13
mgedminif you remove apps that depend on that library (e.g. CloudGPS), you can then upgrade18:13
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: you misunderstand18:14
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: ask maemo conversations, maybe it gives you an emoticon for XP next to the one for :-P18:14
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: it is done by the N900's os automatically18:14
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: aaaah...18:14
Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer: :)18:14
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Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: ssu is ssu because it doesn't need an external software or computer for it18:15
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Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: you must have enough space on the rootfs and you must not have package conflicts though18:16
GNU\causticthe update thing pops up a dialog telling that it wants to be connected to the nokia suite18:16
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Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: it tells you that because you have either package conflicts or not enough space on rootfs18:17
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GNU\caustica brilliant error message18:17
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Venemo_N900well it is intended for users who don't know what these things mean18:17
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: bring up a root terminal and type 'df -h', then please tell us how much space you got on your rootsf18:18
mgedminwhen I didn't have enough free space, the app manager told me so18:18
mgedminso "you must use pc suite" must mean you've got packaging conflicts18:18
Venemo_N900'df -h | grep rootfs'18:18
mgedminam I wrong? have things changed in later versions?18:18
GNU\caustici uninstalled the gles thing and trying again18:18
Venemo_N900mgedmin: well I dunno, maybe you're right18:19
GNU\caustici guess it works, its starting to download now18:19
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: hooray :)18:19
SpeedEvilAnyone in the UK with n900 and t-mo? Specifically if you've opted into orange network - do you get it appearing as 'orange' ?18:19
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ?18:22
DocScrutinizerhow can you opt in to orange?18:23
SpeedEvilt-mo/orange merger in the UK18:23
SpeedEvilyou can opt in on a per phone basis by texting18:23
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DocScrutinizerthere are (at least) 3 sources for network name: a table with netcode->name tupels in OS/cellmo, an name written to SIM config, and a short and long name coming OTA18:24
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DocScrutinizersometimes, on some phones during sign-in, you see all three popping up in sequence18:27
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DocScrutinizerlike "Vodafone"->"O2"->"Loop"18:28
SpeedEvilI suppose I should check syslog18:28
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DocScrutinizerfor what?18:29
DocScrutinizerto check if you roamed to another network? use netmon18:29
DocScrutinizerto find out about your accounting details? ask interwebs18:30
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MohammadAG51DocScrutinizer, how do i find powerhogs, as you call them18:34
MohammadAG51my battery's getting raped18:34
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DocScrutinizerplus SpeedEvil incredible invaluable wiki pages on the topic18:34
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pupniko2 seems to work ok for me in .de18:35
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DocScrutinizererr, yes. Why shouldn't it?18:35
iksaifPaulFertser: I think I found the bug :)18:35
PaulFertseriksaif: really?18:36
iksaifin QtLocation liblocationwrapper.cpp18:36
iksaifthey use a flag18:36
PaulFertserYes, seen that18:36
iksaifto see if the service is started18:36
Venemo_N900iksaif: what bug?18:36
iksaifbut .. the flag is not set to 018:36
iksaifwhen the class is constructed18:36
iksaifso .. sometime the var is 0, sometime it's just some random crap18:36
PaulFertseriksaif: lol, i assumed it's some static variable.18:36
iksaifit's a member of LiblocationWrapper18:37
DocScrutinizernoob oops18:37
iksaifso it may works with some apps because they have some memory pattern that make this flag be 0 on load18:37
PaulFertseriksaif: if you have that "scratchbox" shit handy, feel free to ask me to test your recompiled package for that.18:37
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* DocScrutinizer still wonders why there isn't a SPANK function in gcc for fools using vars right side before left side18:38
iksaifI think I'll fill a bug repport first18:38
iksaifI hop this will be fixed soon :/18:38
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PaulFertseriksaif: well, for the testing purposes it might worth to build a custom package. Also probably that bugreport will be there waiting for the devs for months, but you'd be able to provide a fixed version in extras-devel already.18:39
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GNU\caustic"operating system successfully updated" \o/18:40
Venemo_N900GNU\caustic: hooray! :)18:40
iksaifPaulFertser: the fix has to be made in QtMobility anyway, I can't fix it in my app right ?18:40
iksaifyou mean, a custom qtm-location package ?18:41
PaulFertseriksaif: sure you can't that's what i'm talking about.18:41
Venemo_N900iksaif: even if they fix it tomorrow, the fix will only be in the next fw upgrade... :(18:41
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iksaifPaulFertser: so what should I do ? provide a custom qtm-location package ?18:43
iksaifhow to make such a package available in extra-devel/extra-testing ?18:43
PaulFertseriksaif: yes, to me for testing first :)18:44
iksaif(and could anyone confirm my guess before I fill a bug report ? see / and locationState variable)18:44
PaulFertseriksaif: i'm sure the folks here know the answer, i'm totally clueless about all this maemo distro business.18:44
iksaifok, I'll do that18:44
iksaifare you always on the chan ?18:44
PaulFertseriksaif: (ah, so it's even in the master 1.2 branch, heh)18:44
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PaulFertseriksaif: I might quit any second as i'm not comfortable being here, but i'm almost always on freenode, so just ``/query PaulFertser'' whenever you feel like.18:45
iksaifok, great18:46
iksaifthanks for your help btw,18:46
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rblankHello everyone. I see a system update is available on my N900. Any issues I need to be careful with? My device hasn't been "heavily" hacked.18:47
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PaulFertseriksaif: lol, even basic gdb knowledge seems to be somewhat the majority of this > 500 members lack, i'm glad i was of help.18:47
mgedminrblank, no, no issues; creating a backup is recommended on general principles18:48
ruskiePaulFertser, why aren't you comfortable around here?18:49
Venemo_N900nah guys, goodbye now :)18:49
iksaifPaulFertser: do you confirm that the bug is related to the flag not being set ?18:50
rblankmgedmin: Thanks.18:50
PaulFertserruskie: if this is not another attempt to drag me into argument for some folk's lulz, please query in private, i'll explain.18:50
PaulFertseriksaif: it looks very much like that, this flag is something i've thought about myself but somehow i decided its getting cleared somewhere.18:50
iksaifPaulFertser: instead of doing a new build, maybe you could set the flag to zero by hand using gdb18:51
iksaifadding a breakpoint in LibLocationWrapper::inited()18:51
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PaulFertseriksaif: i'll try in few minutes.18:52
iksaifif you have the time to do so of course18:52
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rblankHow can I convince my N900 to do the system update *without* the "Nokia PC Suite"?18:54
Venemo_N900rblank: get rid of the dependency problems, make enough room on rootfs18:55
infobotfrom memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or, or
mgedminrblank, make sure you've enough free disk space in your rootfs, and remove any conflicting packages18:55
mgedmine.g. try apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img18:56
rblankRootfs has 69M room. I assume that's not enough?18:56
rblankHow do you find conflicting packages?18:56
MohammadAG51it is i think18:56
MohammadAG51apt-get --dist-upgrade18:57
MohammadAG51see what it says, then ctrl+c18:57
rblankThe size of the update was given as 83M18:57
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mgedmin69M is plenty of space18:57
rblank# apt-get --dist-upgrade18:57
rblankE: Sense dist is not understood, try true or false.18:57
GNUtoo|laptophi, in supertux for maemo there is that in the changelog:18:57
mgedminapt-get dist-upgrade failed to give me any useful information18:57
mgedminpeople on this channel suggested apt-get remove libgles1-sgx-img, which helped18:58
GNUtoo|laptopsupertux-stable (0.1.3-1.1maemo6) stable; urgency=low  * Enable access to the pause menu using SDLK_BACKSPACE and touching the screen18:58
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GNUtoo|laptophow do I extract a patch of that18:58
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rblankapt-get dist-upgrade gives me lists of packages that will be removed, installed, and upgraded.18:59
PaulFertseriksaif: btw, i do not exactly like /opt/lugdugov/bin/ for the binary, that seems inconsistent and violating usual pathname policies.18:59
rblank45MB of additional space will be used. That seems ok. Nothing about dependencies, though.19:00
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mgedminPaulFertser, have you read the FHS?19:00
mgedmin"Programs to be invoked by users must be located in the directory /opt/<package>/bin"19:01
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PaulFertsermgedmin: yes.19:01
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PaulFertsermgedmin: ah, ok, let it be so. I'm not sure how i'm supposed to add all those to PATH tough.19:01
mgedmingood question19:01
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rblank"apt-get check" says that everything is ok.19:02
mgedminsymlinks like /usr/bin/progname -> /opt/package/bin/progname ?19:02
iksaifmgedmin: the program is launched using the application/<package>.desktop which specify the absolute binary path19:03
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iksaifbut it's not really clean ..19:03
mgedminwhy do you say so?19:03
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iksaifoups PaulFertser not mgedmin19:03
PaulFertseriksaif: i prefer when i can start programs easily from my shell prompt.19:03
mgedminso do I19:04
mgedminbut maemo doesn't make that easy19:04
iksaifme too, I should add a symlink maybe19:04
iksaifbut it's maemo rules :p19:04
mgedminall those dbus-jumping hoops to make startup faster/etc.19:04
iksaifyou can install lugdulov on your std linux box if you want, it will be in /usr/bin :)19:04
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wazdHeya all19:05
PaulFertseriksaif: mgedmin read and it's written "Packages may provide "front-end" files intended to be placed in [/opt/bin]"19:05
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iksaifhum PaulFertser I think they tought the flag would be zeroed because the instance is allocated using Q_GLOBAL_STATIC19:10
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iksaifbut when threads are enabled19:10
Chanianyone remember what the problem was with getting a data plan for an n900?19:10
iksaifQ_GLOBAL_STATIC call new19:10
iksaifand doesn't use a real static var19:10
iksaif(which would be zeroed)19:10
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* Chani remembers there being some sort of problem in canada, and is hoping it doesn't apply to european networks19:11
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PaulFertseriksaif: btw, zeroing it in debugger is not exactly easy, i've no debug packages for it installed.19:12
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iksaif ah19:13
JucatoChani: dare I repeat dfaure's reply in here :)19:13
iksaifhum right19:13
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Jucatooh wait, wrong channel lol19:13
PaulFertseriksaif: i'll try in assembyl though, doesn't seem too hard.19:13
iksaifthe var should be on the stack .. somewhere :p19:13
iksaifon the heap19:13
iksaifif it was on the stack, it would be zeroed19:14
iksaif(static storage is on the stack right ?)19:14
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mgedminafair static storage is in the bss section (neither stack nor heap), and is zeroed on startup19:16
TiagoTiagoI forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly?19:16
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PaulFertseriksaif: yes, helps here. Need gdb log?19:17
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iksaifPaulFertser: yep please19:18
iksaifneed to go, but I'll get the log later in my irc logs19:19
iksaifthanks for your help19:19
iksaifSee for the reported issue19:19
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MohammadAG51Sigh, so many Internal errors19:31
MohammadAG51on 1.319:32
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TiagoTiagoI forgot, where do i find the setting for which connections can be connected automaticly?19:41
chem|stTiagoTiago: GUI or shell?19:41
chem|stand are you looking for the general setting autoconnection?19:42
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TiagoTiagoon the N90019:43
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TiagoTiagoit was a file somewhere i think19:43
chem|stwhat a surprise in #maemo19:43
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ShadowJKsettings - internet?19:44
chem|stfor GUI ^^19:44
TiagoTiagoI'm looking for this list that had the connections that shhould be connected when avaiable (or perhaps it was the opposite, the connecttions that shouldn't be connected automaticly)19:44
chem|stTiagoTiago: I honestly don"t know which of all the connection settings you are looking for19:44
TiagoTiagoi remember learning about it when i was reading somthing about creating "dummy" connections19:45
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DocScrutinizerTiagoTiago: there's a "autoconnect to WLAN if available"19:46
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ShadowJKthat's switch to wlan19:46
DocScrutinizerand AIUI it will use all the WLANs you previously used and thus configured19:46
TiagoTiagoi'm looking for the setting for individual connections19:46
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DocScrutinizerI'm in doubt there's such a setting19:47
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MohammadAG51i get a weird vibration when i click the calendar widget19:48
TiagoTiagoyou can use that setting to prevent dummy connections and adhoc from autoconnecting19:48
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TiagoTiagoit's cursed19:48
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* MohammadAG51 ponders if the community SSU should hold latest stock or latest stock + matan patches19:50
TiagoTiagowhats the point in having a comunity SSU if its just the same as the manufacturer's ?19:51
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG51: if not both then matan19:51
rblankOoh, the "Updating" tab of the "Application details" for the update actually tells which package conflicts. Here it was "libqt4-test", installed by PyQt4. Uninstalling the latter allows the upgrade to proceed.19:52
TiagoTiagobtw, what about the improvements avaiable n the power kernel?19:52
MohammadAG51TiagoTiago, PR1.3 has old packages19:52
MohammadAG51i won't try to add kernel-power, it change too many things from stock19:53
MohammadAG51while mhd is pretty much the same if not configured19:53
chem|stTiagoTiago: gconftool-2 -a /system/osso/connectivity/network_type19:53
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MohammadAG51X-Fade, does the SSU allow community patches like Matan's?19:54
MohammadAG51they're very stable19:54
DocScrutinizerall the power to mhd until it actually ats up and breaks anything19:54
TiagoTiagohow do i use that to define which connections can and can't autoconnect?19:54
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DocScrutinizergconftool c'mon it's self explaining XP19:55
DocScrutinizer~nuke g*19:56
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... B☢☢M!19:56
MohammadAG51gnome ftw19:56
chem|stTiagoTiago: you set it vie settings->internet connections->connect automatically19:56
DocScrutinizer#DEFINE tracker gtracker19:56
DocScrutinizer~nuke g*19:56
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at g* ... B☢☢M!19:56
ZogGDocScrutinizer do you want it to come?19:58
chem|stvalues are empty for no auto, WLAN_INFRA for wifi, * for any and GPRS for mobile inet19:58
ZogGthat you point all your missles to G dot =)19:58
* DocScrutinizer gets nostalgic about the times where real hackers and not gnomes coded real unix tools19:58
TiagoTiagothat setting doesn't deal with individual connections19:58
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DocScrutinizernot to say KDE4 is *any* better20:00
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* MohammadAG tries unity20:01
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DocScrutinizerMUHAHA >> --break-key              Torture-test  an  application by setting and unsetting a bunch of values of different types for keys on the              command line.20:02
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DocScrutinizerfrom man gconftool-2 XP20:03
ZogGgnome sucks as kde20:03
RST38hkde sucks as gnome too, no doubt20:03
DocScrutinizernoooo, it is master of sucking20:03
MohammadAGunity's nice, for a low res screen20:04
MohammadAGmeh-y on a full size laptop20:04
DocScrutinizergnomes are windows kinks that thought "We can do THAT, on linux"20:05
MohammadAGthat's kde :P20:06
RST38hDoc: Same goes for kde people20:06
MohammadAGKDE4 looks like windows 720:06
RST38hAs to "graphical shells" they suck by definition20:06
MohammadAGor windows 7 looks like KDE420:06
DocScrutinizernope, KDE was an alternative for cde, and it had *none* of the windows principles under the hood when they started20:06
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RST38hReplacing functional desktop metaphore with crappy menu systems20:07
RST38hDoc: yea, right20:07
DocScrutinizerthen original team abandoned ship, and KDE4 jumped in, which is another bunch of... *beeep*20:07
DocScrutinizergnome was invented when people thought KDE2 wasn't windowish enough for them20:08
DocScrutinizertoo complex, too configurable, too few requesters and wizards20:09
DocScrutinizerso they invented gnome20:09
DocScrutinizerthat's history as I like to think about it20:10
* RST38h uses gnome20:10
DocScrutinizerdunno if it's all the facts20:10
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RST38hWhatever you like to think of history, it is a bit different :)20:10
sivangKDE has gone a long way,I think it is a much of a saner choice for folks who want to really use their computers to fullest20:11
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RST38hallyou need is google for "gnome wiki" and read the history section20:11
DocScrutinizersivang: has been true until and excluding KDE420:11
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sivangDocScrutinizer: what happened there?20:14
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sivangI've recently checked what it give on a desktop, so sure you need fairly strong machine to carry it20:14
sivangbut everybody are doing this, including ubuntu wuth UNity limiting users to have acelerated graphics support20:14
DocScrutinizersivang: KDE4 is a stinking pile of segfaulting shit, as they did a complete rewrite it seems20:14
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GNUtoo|laptopDocScrutinizer, hi20:16
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GNUtoo|laptopwrong channel20:16
DocScrutinizerhi nevertheless20:16
sivangDocScrutinizer: hmm, isn't this a bit harsh ;) ?20:16
RST38hSeattle investigators have discovered a cache of heavy explosives beneath a new cruise ship terminal.20:16
TiagoTiagowhat would happen if i tried installing ofono on the N900?20:17
derfChaos in the streets. Dogs and cats, living together.20:17
TiagoTiagowere there also fuses or the explosives were just stored there?20:17
maybeArghoh yeh mighty n900 community20:18
maybeArghwhat's a good bluetooth headset for a cheapskate like myself?20:18
infobotTiagoTiago meant: were there also detonators or the explosives were just stored there?20:18
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SpeedEvil np: It ain't heavy, it's my C4.20:22
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iksaifPaulFertser if you're still here, could you try with :
sivangSpeedEvil: hehehe20:23
PaulFertseriksaif: sure20:23
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PaulFertseriksaif: yep, works here all right.20:28
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iksaifI'm going to do a very ugly thing20:29
iksaifship a fixed libQtLocation in /opt/lugdulov/lib/20:29
iksaifand LD_LIBRARY_PATH the thing :p20:29
iksaifjust to lazy to link it statically20:29
TiagoTiagoi'm seeing ofono avaiable in Synaptic, will it mes things up if i ttry installing it on my N900?20:31
lcukiksaif, have you offered a bug/patch/MR to fix the issue upstream?20:31
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sjki bought a n900 today!20:32
jacktheripperdoes multiboot support btrfs ?20:32
TiagoTiagoyay! :D20:32
iksaiflcuk: I'm doing it20:32
jacktherippercongrats! xD20:32
lcuk:) iksaif great stuff20:33
iksaifbug report sent, mail with patch sent to .deb maintainers, merge request will be sent later.20:33
sjkspent twenty minutes talking to the guy in the shop... got a 170 eur discount :)20:34
lcukwhich tracker did you file bug with? (link?)20:34
dsgjacktheripper: No, FAT16 only (not even FAT32).20:35
jacktheripperdsg: multiboot supports ext3..20:35
dsg(if by multiboot you mean u-boo)20:35
jacktheripperdsg: I mean the multiboot package, don't know if it's also called u-boot.20:36
dsgjacktheripper: Oh sorry, no, that's something different. Ignore me then. :)20:36
jacktheripperdsg: haha np :D20:36
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TiagoTiagodo i have to change the repos' settings relacing 1.2 with 1.3 when present?20:37
TiagoTiagoi mean, would there be any benefit in doing that?20:37
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AranelAnyone tried this yet?:
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, I think21:03
MohammadAGwell, repartitioning /home and MyDocs anyways21:04
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Aranelyup, without reflashing, if it works ok =)21:05
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ruskieAranel, I did some similar stuff21:07
ruskie/dev/mmcblk0p2         21G   14G  5,8G  71% /home21:07
ruskie/dev/mmcblk0p4        3,7G 1002M  2,5G  29% /home/opt21:08
ruskie/dev/mmcblk0p1        4,9G  3,0G  1,7G  65% /home/user/MyDocs21:08
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Aranelruskie: so It went good? yay! ^^ Did you do it on a fresh install or "dirty" one?21:09
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ruskieAranel, see solution #3 on that page.. just under it's title ;)21:10
ruskiethis was more or less the first thing I did when I got the n90021:10
svuorela /win 3321:10
ruskieand that will be a year in a little over a monh21:11
ponyofdeathhi I am getting an pkg error about python2.5-minimal depends on pymaemo-optify any ideas how to fix?21:11
Aranelruskie: If I rsync / from N900 to my Ubuntu box, can I return to it If I brick my precious? :)21:12
ruskieAranel, using this most likely:
Aranelruskie: thank you! ^^21:12
ruskietough that's probably overkill for what you want21:13
ruskieunless you have data you want to backup21:13
Aranelruskie: I'm using the same installation from the day I bought N900 (PR1.0 ~ nearly a year ago)21:14
ruskieI've reflashed it atleast a dozen time since then21:14
Aranelruskie: so I would be happy to backup some data :P21:15
ruskieI should probably do a backup sometime21:15
Noobmonk3ywow Aranel !21:16
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Aranelruskie: It's a pretty stable OS. Before N900 I was using Symbian and I reflashed it at least 2 times in 6 months, I didnt do any hacks, anything bad.21:16
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ruskieAranel, yeah mine was heavily hacked first21:16
ruskiethen with pr1.2 reflash I toned down the hacks21:16
AranelNoobmonk3y: sup? :)21:16
ruskiesince it's not such a stable OS21:17
ruskieit's very very fragile21:17
ruskieall the hacks I did on m5 should be survivable on any other distro...21:17
Noobmonk3yhehe was just wowing the still on 1.0  part ;) - evvvvening!21:17
Aranelruskie: what about meego rescue initrd? It looks like a solution to "bricked" situations.21:17
ruskieAranel, I used that today ;)21:17
dRbiGi'm still suprised that maemo actually holds together :)21:17
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ruskieafter I forgot to run a depmod for the new kernel ;)21:18
ruskietook me most of the day to work it out21:18
AranelNoobmonk3y: nope I'm not on 1.0, upgraded it to 1.1.1, then 1.2 and now 1.3. It's still working ^^21:18
ruskiesince how to access ubifs is different than the rest21:18
Noobmonk3yahh cool :P21:18
ruskieand then had to roll my own busybox with the ubiattach applets as well21:18
MohammadAG1.0 is awesome21:18
SamsunixEny idea how to get live-wallpaper working on maemo ?21:19
ruskiewhat's that?21:19
Samsunixmmm... it's like aero on windows 7 (living wallpaper)21:19
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG: Trout 1.0 was better ;)21:20
Samsunixandroid has one21:20
Aranelruskie: It would be great If you write a HOWTO document for it :)21:20
ruskieagain what's that21:20
Noobmonk3ythe N900 was just missing gills :(21:20
GAN900Samsunix, install Live Wallpaper.21:20
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ruskieAranel, erm? I'm more thinking of providing an initrd and a kernel to be smart enough to restore21:20
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* MohammadAG wants an electric guitar21:20
MohammadAGanyone feel like giving me one? :P21:20
ruskieI'm also hoping the new dual-boot method that pr1.3 introduces could be usable there21:21
MohammadAGI just a way to write to /dev/mtd5 cleanly21:21
MohammadAGthen we can flash rootfss on device21:21
Noobmonk3y:| ?21:21
Samsunix these ?21:21
Aranelruskie: ^^ I hope so.21:21
Samsunixshit it's booring21:21
Samsunixand dosnt look cool21:21
AranelSamsunix: sorry If I misunderstood you, but why don't you use HAM if  you want to install some app? Doesn't it work?21:22
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MohammadAGthen make uboot boot a recovery OS, that allows me to select an image from a 200MB partition21:22
Noobmonk3yahhh i get it!21:22
Noobmonk3yi likies21:22
Samsunixaranel it does21:22
* MohammadAG ponders nand_write21:22
ruskieMohammadAG, something like that is what I was thinking...21:23
AranelMohammadAG: I'm a huge fan of you. Just wanted to say it. :D21:23
MohammadAGruskie, I know :P21:23
ruskiebut I don't know how to do the uboot magic21:23
MohammadAGlol fanks :P21:23
ruskiethat's what I'd like to have first21:23
MohammadAGruskie, make the SD bootable21:23
ruskiejust to boot into the main OS21:23
MohammadAGbut that's not a difficulty21:23
ruskiebasically want a menu to pick an OS21:24
MohammadAGwriting to the ubifs blocks is harder21:24
MohammadAGdd kills em21:24
* MohammadAG pokes Stskeeps21:24
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ruskiemount /dev/ubi021:24
ruskiewrite to it21:24
MohammadAGthat's not flashing though is it :P21:24
MohammadAGerr, s/technically/actually/21:25
MohammadAGyou have a point21:25
MohammadAGmount /dev/mtd5, you don't need to attach21:25
ruskieyou need to attach21:25
MohammadAGthen tar -xzvf a tar with permissions kept21:25
ruskiecan't mount it directly21:25
MohammadAGruskie, not on device :)21:25
MohammadAGyou can21:25
ruskieI did it on the device21:25
ruskiejust today21:25
ruskieusing meego21:25
MohammadAGmount ubi0:rootfs /mnt21:25
ruskieyeah... but to get that working you need ubifsattach21:26
ruskieelse you don't get ubi021:26
ruskieand the meego busybox lacks that21:26
MohammadAGi got it on ubuntu 9.10 without using ubiattach21:26
MohammadAGkernel differences I suppose21:26
ruskieI'd like to make a full blown recovery initrd that one could put on an sdcard to load it through uboot(which I'm assuming one could enter stuff)21:27
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ruskiebut the uboot kernel should be on the device21:28
MohammadAGor on the SD card21:28
ruskieI don't want it there... atleast not as primary21:28
MohammadAGwhy? uboot boots the kernel from SD21:28
ruskieI want the choice of SD or internal21:28
ruskiein uboot21:29
* MohammadAG wonders how xchat plugins work21:29
mgedminMohammadAG, badly21:29
mgedminon every xchat startup on my laptop I get an error from a plugin: xchat_print called without a valid context.21:30
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MohammadAGmgedmin, works quite well :P21:31
Myrttiirssi ftw ♥21:31
MohammadAGI guess it depends on the script21:31
MyrttiI've tried using xchat couple of times21:31
* mgedmin tried learning irssi a couple of times, felt too old for that21:31
MyrttiI usually end up wanting to stab something, and am happy to have my irssi back21:31
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* MohammadAG felt too young for irssi :P21:33
MohammadAGit annoyed me in some places21:33
Myrtti pink ♥21:33
* MohammadAG keeps forgetting you're a she lol21:34
ruskie <-- that's mine same one for years21:34
mgedminruskie, is that a horrible font, or a horribly scaled image?21:35
ruskiemgedmin, click on the link under the image21:35
slonopotamusMyrtti: ubuntu-offtopi ?!21:35
slonopotamusah, channel name21:35
Myrttislonopotamus: yes, from years gone by21:36
RST38hmooo heffalump, myrtti21:36
RST38hmgedmin too21:36
* slonopotamus mumbles incomprehensively21:39
* RST38h notices that other people present are not old enough farts to compare21:39
Myrttia bit bored, considering continuing on the biography of Alfred Nobel, tipping my toes in some coding or getting a döner21:39
RST38hircii, inside ssh, green-on-black, no colors or highlighting support21:40
MyrttiRST38h: tried that. Wasn't too much fun21:40
* RST38h is kinda used to it, using it since 199121:40
ruskiemgedmin, the font I've been using for years now in terms is Aerial Mono and I love that font... even made the n900 use it now21:40
RST38hactually, I should probably make it 199321:40
MyrttiRST38h: we had the difficult decision back in school to pick between 16-bit and 32-bit mIRC21:41
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Myrttiand that scary trumpet winsock was looming in the background21:41
lcukMyrtti, get the kebab, read a book21:41
RST38hMyrtti: When Mardambey's children laid waste on the IRC, it was already considered the end of the *true* IRC experience :)21:41
* slonopotamus has just reinvented Aho-Corasick algorihm and feels depressed because wanted to name it by himself21:41
MyrttiRST38h: *shrug* I was 16 then21:42
RST38hslono: You can always change your name to Aho Corasick21:42
slonopotamusRST38h: i think that's two people21:42
RST38hMyrtti: Shit. Now I *really* feel like an old fart :)21:42
RST38hslono: Will it matter?21:42
slonopotamusRST38h: meh, easier to invent something different21:44
MyrttiRST38h: I had a revelation today though, a minor celebrity known mainly for being a bad singer, bad striptease act and having poor judgement on men announced she's pregnant and is going to be a wonderful mum at age 32 - I've always thought she was well over 40... I feel a bit relieved and less fretty about my own age now21:44
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MyrttiOMG! how cute
RST38hslono: [state-of-factly] Ahuy Harassick not taken yet.21:44
RST38hMyrtti: Sudden recognition of the character you are talking about made me feel even worse.21:45
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RST38hMyrtti: But there is a redeeming factor there: I have not heard a single song by her. :)21:45
MyrttiRST38h: I doubt you know her really, unless you're a connoisseur of 3rd rate Finnish wannabe celebs21:46
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MyrttiI certainly wish I'd know less21:46
RST38hMariah Carey21:48
Myrttiyeah, not her21:48
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MyrttiMC looks fairly decent21:48
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Myrttiand she can actually sing, even if her music isn't to everyones liking.21:48
RST38hOh, this means they are getting pregnant in droves21:48
RST38hheya javispedro21:49
Myrtti"FireShepherd floods the wireless network with packets to turn off FireSheep" have to agree with Hyppönen, I'm not too sure if that is such a good idea...21:50
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RST38hDepends on the way you construct a packet21:50
Myrttibut Firesheep isn't the problem21:50
javispedrowhy, oh, why gitorious doesn't have a bugtracker21:51
RST38hYea, but they cannot fix the actual problem (no https support by many sites)21:51
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RST38hjavis: so that you cannot bother developers with your petty reports? =)21:51
javispedroRST38h: it is way more easier to ignore a bug report than to ignore a pm storm =)21:52
RST38hMeanwhile:Stopping Malaria By Immunizing Mosquitoes21:52
RST38hjavispedro: both are easy21:52
* alterego contemplates working on mixing QML and GLES 2.021:53
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Myrttidamned flashplugin21:54
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Myrttijust randomly the loads on my lappy skyrocket :-(21:55
javispedroeven Adobe is trying to ditch flash21:55
dionguys, could anybody suggest. For some reason pulseaudio doesn't starts on my n900 during boot. So there is no sound.. where it should start?21:55
dion/etc/event.replace.d/pulseaudio exists.. but who will call it?21:56
javispedroon upstart, the file itself should say when it starts21:56
javispedro(in what I can only call one of the most horrible features ever made)21:56
MohammadAGjavispedro, is there a way to disable desktop composition outside fullscreen?21:57
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javispedroMohammadAG: killing h-d21:57
dionjavispedro: any way to debug it? I've verified that I can start pulseaudio by hands21:57
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javispedroMohammadAG: do touch /etc/no_dsme_reboots or whatever that file is called these days21:57
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MohammadAGI don't have the watchdog enabled anyways21:58
MohammadAGI can run the N900 without X21:58
javispedrodion: nope, but you might want to install syslog and see if it says anthing remotely useful21:59
javispedros/nope/none that I know of21:59
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MohammadAGThe window manager applies compositing for all top-level windows by default. This behavior can be disabled by setting the Qt::WA_Maemo5NonComposited widget attribute on a top-level widget. javispedro what about this?22:02
javispedroprePR 1.1 not even fullscreen windows were composited22:02
javispedroso to get any sane performance drnoksnes had to set that property22:03
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MohammadAGjavispedro, so the app _has_ to be fs to be non composited...22:03
javispedro*were uncomposited, sorry.22:03
ds3is it me or did the latest update made some things faster?22:03
javispedroMohammadAG: obvious reasons: the titlebar is drawn via OpenGL.22:04
dionjavispedro: got it.. it looks like the issue was disk full on /22:04
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javispedroMohammadAG: so, no OpenGL, no title bar.22:04
infobotpr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or, or
MohammadAGds3, yeah, trolls leaving22:04
ds3MohammadAG: no, this is actual use. mail seems to no get wedged as much either22:04
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ds3I just don't have enough run time to find out if it is faster or I haven't pushed it hard enough22:05
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MohammadAGds3, I use Nokia Messaging, so modest was pretty fast for me22:05
MohammadAGbut yeah, I guess it is faster22:05
ds3ah I se22:05
ds3previously I had to killall modest daily to keep receiving mail (I'm on POP)22:06
RST38hds2: that is pre-pr1222:07
ds3RST38h: for me it was 1.2 only... pre1.2 didn't wedge as much22:08
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ds3I was pleasantly surprised when a Maemo upgrade showed up in app mgr AND things felt faster after the reboot22:08
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messertingI don't understand this; I have too little rootfs space to upgrade to 1.3, but after uninstalling about 60MB of apps, I still only have about 30MB free?22:10
RST38hwe do not know. it is magic.22:11
ruskiemesserting, apt-get clean22:11
ruskiemesserting, also try a reboot22:11
javispedroand reboot22:11
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jogamost programs don't go to root22:11
messertingok, will do apt-get clean. Have rebooted22:11
MohammadAGmost apps you uninstalled are probably installed to /opt22:12
maybeArghso i was playing asphalt5... and it was a bit choppy :/22:12
maybeArghbut then i noticed i still had xplane running in the background all the time \o/22:12
MohammadAGasphalt 5?22:12
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jogathere ought to be some oneliner to list package names of all programs that reside on rootfs sorted by size ;)22:13
messertingMohammadAG: ok, that explains it. Will dig around in the filesystem to find what apps are in /22:13
MohammadAGmesserting, du -h in /usr22:13
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MohammadAGI think DocScrutinizer said | sort -n works22:14
MohammadAGso du -h | sort -n | more22:14
messertingMohammadAG: 350.9M  /usr22:14
jogawith -h it's not consistent22:14
MohammadAGcd bin22:14
DocScrutinizerdu -x /|sort -n22:14
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MohammadAGty DocScrutinizer22:14
DocScrutinizer-x for not traversing filesystems22:15
MohammadAGmeh, ignore | more22:15
DocScrutinizersort numeric won't work on du -h22:15
MohammadAGit sorts from smallest to large22:15
jogayou can reverse it with sort -nr22:15
mgedminmesserting, try sync; that used to help22:15
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messertingok, I'll uninstall emacs now ;)22:16
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mgedminalso, best way to free up a dozen megs is to temporarily disable application catalogues22:18
mgedminsuch as extras22:18
mgedmin/var/lib/apt takes a bunch of space22:18
mgedminfor package lists22:19
messertingmgedmin: but apt-get clean fixes that, right?22:19
RST38hyou can move it to mmd22:19
mgedminapt-get clean cleans /var/cache/apt/archives22:19
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messertingwhoa, emacs took 77MB22:19
* mgedmin moved his /var/lib/apt to /opt somewhere22:19
javispedroI just got a "maintainer request" for one package of mine from a guy22:20
javispedroa) I don't know22:20
messertingmy /var/lib/apt/ take only 7.4MB22:20
javispedrob) has 3 karma points22:20
javispedroall of them come from the default garage project22:21
RST38hjavis: does he know what maintaining a packqge is?22:21
javispedroRST38h: no idea, as the "maintainer request" doesn't force users to at least fill a textfield with some explanation22:21
javispedroit's just clickety click, confirm, go22:21
pupnik_heyy javispedro22:22
javispedrohi pupnik_22:22
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javispedroso, getting a Pandaboard?22:22
pupnik_is sdl + gl a way to get portable 3D between n900 and x86?22:22
infobotmethinks flashing is
pupnik_dunno javispedro22:22
javispedropupnik_: you'd also need GLES emulation libraries in x8622:22
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javispedropupnik_: with that, you could patch SDL_gles to use those and build in on x86, then yes.22:23
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pupnik_that could be useful, no?22:23
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javispedrosomething like that is already used by for ex. the palm sdk22:23
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pupnik_  my latest music 'shader'22:23
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javispedropupnik_: as said you should make those winamp or gstreamer visualizations :)22:24
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pupnik_not hard to do22:25
messertingI'm confused: In one of the links given by ~pr1.3, it says I should apt-get dist-upgrade, but in the title here, it says I shouldn't. Is it okay if I do "apt-get update;apt-get install maemo-sdk-opt" first?22:25
javispedrowhat are you trying to update, a sdk or the device?22:26
javispedrofor the sdk, both apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade would be fine22:26
javispedrofor the device, suggested is to use h-a-m22:26
infobotpr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update, or, or
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messertingjavispedro: I'd like to update only the device to pr1.3. I'll go with h-a-m22:27
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MohammadAGjavispedro, how do I graphically accelerate my SDK?22:27
javispedrothat infobot fact should  be changed, sdk release notes can confuse newbs22:27
MohammadAGtried to make what you gave me, got some errors22:27
hrw|udsjavispedro: do that then?22:27
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messertingok, I see now that what I read was for the sdk :)22:28
MohammadAG~no infobot, pr1.3 is not
infobotMohammadAG: okay22:28
infobotpr1.3 is probably not
* MohammadAG facepalms22:28
infobotpr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update22:28
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hrw|udsthx javispedro22:29
javispedrothere's no wiki page for "fixing" h-a-m to link to, though22:29
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update22:30
javispedrolinking to wiki instead of nokia.com22:30
javispedroMohammadAG: I admit it is hard to setup, you should check the original vmgl docs as I did not write any =)22:31
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javispedro... not to mention it's starting to bitrot, I wouldn't be surprised if it does not build in uber recent xorg versions22:32
MohammadAGmeh, nvm then :P22:33
MohammadAGThe SDK runs fast enough on an i522:33
javispedrobtw, if you see the video, you'll note that vmgl does not have support for shaders22:33
javispedroso the background blur effect does not work22:33
javispedrosubtle :)22:33
GAN900PR1.3 is so lame they didn't even bother with a changelog this time.22:34
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chxGAN900: you do realize that QT 4.7 is a huge, huge deal?22:35
hrw|udschx: qt 4.7 was already available for maemo522:35
chxeasier if built in, no?22:35
hrw|udsno big deal, really22:35
GAN900chx, Maemo 5 is only incidental to it and PR1.3, though.22:36
javispedroyes, but not exactly mind boggling work from nokia :)22:36
GAN900javispedro, +++++22:36
chxpfffft, Nokia and mind boggling?22:36
ioanis the power kernel updated to the last version (the one from PR1.3)?22:36
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chxyou are in the wrong decade for that.22:36
GAN900chx, in summary, Nokia still sucks.22:36
chxthere is no doubt to THAT22:36
* javispedro 's wireless mouse batteries run out.. can't focus outside irc, dammit!22:36
GAN900Well, good that we're clear then.22:37
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BCMMis fcam working in 1.3?22:47
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AranelHow can I force fsck? I'm using 1.6 gb of /home but I got only 70meg free, so I wonder where did other 300~ go, I want to do fsck.22:51
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Myrttitraditionally fsck is forced by making a file called forcefsck in the root of the partition22:52
mgedminAranel, have you tried du -x /home yet?22:53
Myrttibut don't know if it works on N90022:53
Aranelmgedmin: saw it on Storage Usage. Wait a min, I'm doing it :)22:53
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AranelMyrtti: yup I know it works on my Ubuntu box but I'm pretty sure it's not working on N900.22:55
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Aranel1873344 /home and 73.0 Free. Hmm, now It's reasonable. Storage Usage confused me. Thanks for the tip ^^22:56
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Aranelbut I'm still curious about can't I run fsck on N900, can I?22:57
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mgedminmaybe you can22:58
mgedminI've no idea how...22:58
mgedminumount /home will likely complain about it being used22:58
mgedmindual-boot meego from sd card, run fsck that way22:59
mgedminfsck on a mounted partition == extremely unhealthy22:59
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lpjhjdhwould a general cross compilation question be kosher here?23:00
Aranelhmm yeah maybe dual-booting can help, so I can fsck rootfs too.23:00
lpjhjdhlibtool is making me cry23:00
lpjhjdhtrying to cross compile glib and since prefix=/usr it's picking up my host libdl rather than my $ROOTFS/lib/libdl despite -rpath-link and -L$ROOTFS/lib/libdl23:01
lpjhjdhany recommendations?23:01
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lpjhjdhI'm also using LIBTOOL=arm-none-linux-gnueabi-libtool23:01
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messertingIt seems I've got every locale installed on my device. Can I uninstall the languages I don't use? 22MB in /usr/lib/locale and 12MB in /usr/share/locale23:03
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infobotflashing is, like,
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BCMMam i right in thinking that "flasher-3.5 -F <firmware-image> -f -R" won't touch the contents of ~/MyDocs?23:12
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TiagoTiagothis can't be a good sign23:21
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makisis someone using man-db package from extras-devel? when I type man ls Im getting error "pager: applet not found. man: command exit with status 256: pager -s"23:21
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TiagoTiagolast boot, whenever i went to or from the apps menu instead of the backgrounf blurring i saw random triangles flashing in the bacckground (like "polygon tearing")23:22
TiagoTiagoi rebooted and it stopped happening, but that it happened at all still worries me23:22
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* Noobmonk3y may have figured out qt layouts!!! -> dont use them!23:23
Noobmonk3y5 days trying to get one thing right23:24
Noobmonk3ytis a bloody mare!23:25
DocScrutinizerBCMM: yep23:25
BCMMdoes it usually take ages to boot right after flashing?23:25
DocScrutinizermakis: install less23:25
BCMMDocScrutinizer: thanks23:25
DocScrutinizerBCMM: yes23:26
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: ?23:26
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: how do you create qt ui?23:26
TiagoTiagohas anyone ever heard of thos happening?23:26
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Noobmonk3yhrw|uds: using the gui :|23:26
Noobmonk3yie qtcreator23:27
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: layout elements are easy23:27
Noobmonk3ynot wiuth what i'm doing supposedlt23:27
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Noobmonk3yand #qt and #qt-maemo are ever so quiet lol23:27
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: you just add widgets, then select few, put them in layout, select next ones, put in layout and finally add layout for whole window23:27
Noobmonk3yok, still not gonna help me!! done that for 5 days, tried all types of layouts lol , let me explain23:28
BCMMDocScrutinizer: i was doing something else while it booted, and after a couple of minutes realised it hadn't made any noises with a start and thought i was in the dreaded bootloop23:28
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: show screenshot of ui?23:28
Noobmonk3yon landscape i want 2 sets of columns (label label, label label) - but portrait i want them to wrap to fit the screen, so 1 set of two colums23:29
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Noobmonk3yie (label label) on each line23:29
Noobmonk3ygot it auto rotating fine, but it just seems layouts refuse to either resize, flow or go where i want them23:29
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hrw|udsok, now I uderstand23:30
hrw|udsyou want to reflow UI23:30
DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: this won't ever happen automatically23:30
Noobmonk3ysurely i cant be the first? - as the lscape is wider, and portrait taller lol23:30
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer: why didnt you tell me that monday when asking lol!23:30
Noobmonk3ybut thank you!23:30
DocScrutinizera 4 col layout remains a 4 col layout23:30
Noobmonk3yi'm currently in the process of manually positioning it all23:30
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: NO!!23:31
Noobmonk3yhrw|uds: meh23:31
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DocScrutinizerNoobmonk3y: use two layouts23:31
Noobmonk3yanother four days to figure out a "reflow Ui"?23:31
Noobmonk3yi did23:31
Noobmonk3yand even tried repositioning23:31
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Noobmonk3ythey refused to go where i wanted, one just vanished!23:31
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: does it is label1 label2, label3 label4 and has to be label1 label2\nlabel3 label4 in portrait?23:31
Noobmonk3ypreferably yes!23:32
Noobmonk3y(and well described!)23:32
hrw|udshow you generate labels?23:32
Noobmonk3ycreated in the gui23:32
hrw|udslooks like best would be to have two UI layouts in application23:32
Noobmonk3yas i'm playing with stylesheets etc23:32
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hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: what app does? what are labels?23:32
Noobmonk3yoooo - gonna be a pain, all within a stacked widget with 9 widgets lol23:32
Noobmonk3yhrw|uds: re-invention of healthcheck23:33
Noobmonk3y9 pages *23:33
hrw|udshealthcheck? was it that app with nightmare ui?23:33
Noobmonk3yyup ;)23:33
Noobmonk3yso this time, i'm gonna do it right!23:33
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Noobmonk3yanyway that was my first ever forway into pyqt lol23:33
hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: first of all: drop any css from it23:34
Noobmonk3ythistime, my first ever time into c++/qt - or whatever it is23:34
Noobmonk3yaghhh no! - cos thats what made it shite last time!23:34
hrw|udslet it look like normal application not as some design nightmare23:34
Noobmonk3yand it now looks sexy in landscape23:34
Noobmonk3ymay just keep in in lscape23:34
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hrw|udsNoobmonk3y: we have different definition of 'sexy' look of app23:34
Noobmonk3yvery true :p23:34
* Noobmonk3y autorotation is now leaving the app!23:35
Noobmonk3yyay - battery saving!23:35
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* Noobmonk3y relaxes, looks so much easier now ;)23:37
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jacktheripperhey, for me, sometimes haptic feedback + audio work, and sometimes not. I have to reboot the N900 to get any change, and these two are always coupled23:41
jacktheripperanybody else having that problem ?23:41
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JaizukeHey everyone, is TMO down?23:42
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jacktheripperit is23:43
JaizukeAh I see.23:44
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JaizukeHey mohammad23:44
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* hrw|uds off23:45
hrw|udshave a nice weekend23:45
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Noobmonk3yhey mo23:46
Jaizukeumm, I was wondering if you could help me with your combined modified hildon package?23:46
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infobot[pr1.3] the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update23:56
_llll_a bad day to have left my charger at work, clearlt23:57
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Noobmonk3y_llll_: lol :P23:59

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