IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2010-10-27

ShadowJK	yeah and before you had to use usb cable to tell nolo to load the meego kernel	00:00
MohammadAG	mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ echo Test \| pastebinit	00:00
MohammadAG	http://pastebin.com/VmraM9N5	00:00
MohammadAG	package needs an update	00:00
jacekowski	grrr	00:00
jacekowski	it's not working	00:00
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: yup	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: UPDATE IT! :-P	00:00
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DocScrutinizer	nah, first prepare that kernel for me	00:01
TiagoTiago	hi	00:01
DocScrutinizer	hi, sad man	00:01
DocScrutinizer	err, ooops	00:01
TiagoTiago	lol	00:01
DocScrutinizer	mental etab	00:01
MohammadAG	Nokia-N900:/# echo test \| pastebinit	00:02
MohammadAG	http://pastebin.com/SEGrRPqR	00:02
MohammadAG	LOL	00:02
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, the maintainer's lazy	00:02
MohammadAG	took me less than 3 minutes	00:02
Scelt	MohammadAG: I wanna be able to choose to run maemo or meego at the boot without flash loading the meego kernel. is that possible at the moment?	00:02
jacekowski	Scelt: yes	00:03
MohammadAG	oh	00:03
MohammadAG	maintainer retired :/	00:03
MohammadAG	qwerty12	00:03
jacekowski	yeah	00:03
jacekowski	he fucked off	00:03
Scelt	jacekowski: url to instructions?	00:03
jacekowski	and posted quite a big rant	00:03
jacekowski	inside of one of packages	00:03
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MohammadAG	yes, I know	00:04
MohammadAG	Maintainer requested for Pastebinit	00:04
TiagoTiago	any idea how many days untill Maemo.org stops being DDoS'd by people trying to go there about the Maemo update?	00:04
djszapi	jacekowski: so do you have any idea for opengl problem ?	00:05
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djszapi	still pending.	00:05
jacekowski	djszapi: not at the moment	00:05
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djszapi	kinda shame I cannot use opengl on maemo	00:06
jacekowski	hmm, it looks like there is no ssu for UK	00:06
jacekowski	no packages in latest version	00:06
djszapi	header file simply just sucks.	00:06
jacekowski	nothing is there	00:06
MohammadAG	pastebinit should be in?	00:07
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG for presid.. err, pastebinit maintainer :-D	00:07
MohammadAG	user/system/user/utilities?	00:07
DocScrutinizer	WHAT??	00:07
TiagoTiago	any benefit on using the UK version vs flashing the global one?	00:07
MohammadAG	which user/ section...	00:07
DocScrutinizer	/usr/bin, or maybe /usr/local/bin I'd say	00:07
DocScrutinizer	ouch, section	00:08
MohammadAG	user/utilities I'd say	00:08
timeless_mbp	TiagoTiago: you'll get updates slower	00:08
timeless_mbp	possibly missig updates entirely	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	I won't give a f.. f... about sections - they are useless anyway	00:08
* timeless_mbp kicks DocScrutinizer		00:08
TiagoTiago	I mean, any benefit of using the UK version?	00:08
timeless_mbp	they're used by catorize	00:08
timeless_mbp	TiagoTiago: that's the bneefit!	00:09
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, CLI	00:09
TiagoTiago	lol	00:09
timeless_mbp	you get to wait longer for some idiot to do an extra useless round of testing	00:09
timeless_mbp	which won't do anything	00:09
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, uploaded, wait 30 minutes	00:09
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: :-D	00:10
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TiagoTiago	heh	00:10
DocScrutinizer	it'll install. Seems friggin 1.3 & Qt borked virtually everything once again. Lart *4-m05	00:11
timeless_mbp	TiagoTiago: it's very valuable!	00:11
timeless_mbp	don't pass up your opportunity to wait longer for the same software	00:11
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TiagoTiago	~pr1.3	00:12
infobot	methinks pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	00:12
merlin1991	http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, 404	00:12
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merlin1991	ah because xchat thought the , is part of the link	00:12
merlin1991	lol	00:12
DocScrutinizer	I promise this time I won't give up silently and migrate to a borked most recent version just because repos are fubar and no more downloads possible for older PR versions. This time I'm going to become a nightmare for the dude in charge of it	00:13
TiagoTiago	why we shouldn't do apt-get -dist-upgrade! ?	00:13
ShadowJK	because it breaks stuff	00:14
TiagoTiago	lol	00:14
DocScrutinizer	err, where's my "hope" in front of "it'll install" ?	00:14
ShadowJK	the repositories aren't set up to do it	00:14
TiagoTiago	that is lame	00:15
TiagoTiago	why didn't they do it?	00:15
* n900-dk wonder how to solve qt conflicts to update to 1.3..		00:15
jacekowski	well dist-upgrade doesn't work at all	00:16
jacekowski	at least not here	00:16
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crashanddie	jacekowski: told you.	00:16
ioan	is maemo.org down again? anyone knows what's up with that site?	00:16
jacekowski	crashanddie: it just doesn't work	00:16
crashanddie	ioan: if it's down, i don't think much is "up"	00:16
DocScrutinizer	¡ /topic !	00:17
ShadowJK	Someone forgot to patch apt-get to say "Unknowm command dist-upgrade"	00:17
TiagoTiago	i'll probably wait till maemo.org stops being DDoS'd before installiong pr1.3 myself anyway	00:17
ioan	crashanddie :-)	00:17
crashanddie	is mo being DDoS'd?	00:17
jacekowski	i'll end up flashing it	00:17
ioan	is apple ddos-ing maemo?	00:18
ioan	:-)	00:18
TiagoTiago	i imagine it is, 'cause of all the people trying to go there about pr1.3	00:18
DocScrutinizer	I couldn't bother less to install that friggin PR1.3 right now - regarding all the new bugs it gets us	00:18
ioan	I'm trying to get there for the games from webos... where should I look for those games? I want to try some too	00:19
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CreamyG	i hid them in your back yard	00:20
DocScrutinizer	webos appstore?	00:20
TiagoTiago	didn't somthing like this also happened when pr1.2 came out?	00:20
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:20
DocScrutinizer	even worse	00:20
CreamyG	man doing my timesheets sucks	00:20
CreamyG	wandered around talking to ppl = meeting	00:20
TiagoTiago	I'm surprised this channel isn't overcrowed as well	00:20
CreamyG	fell asleep at desk = analsys & design	00:21
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CreamyG	ate doughnut = test execution	00:21
TiagoTiago	whar's your job?	00:21
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: it is, you are here :-P	00:21
CreamyG	uhhh a government, somewhere	00:21
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: do you have mp-fremantle-203-pr or just mp-fremantle installed?	00:21
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: it has been pretty busy for the past few days	00:21
jacekowski	MohammadAG51: or something similiar?	00:21
DocScrutinizer	yep, absolutely	00:22
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: also, "overcrowded" on FreeNode is quite different from other networks	00:22
crashanddie	most networks would kill to have a channel this big (500+ users)	00:22
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crashanddie	Well, I guess Hans Reiser actually did, kill somebody. After that, #reiserfs was unbearably big.	00:22
DocScrutinizer	been a while since last 500+	00:23
TiagoTiago	i mean, at least enough people to have too many people talking simultaneouslly to be easy to follow any given convo	00:23
DocScrutinizer	maybe in 2 minutes again :-P	00:23
jacekowski	i can invite some people	00:23
CreamyG	yeah since tmo won't stay up, ppl flood this chan now	00:23
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TiagoTiago	lol	00:23
jacekowski	499	00:23
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CreamyG	help help i need to complain, urgently	00:23
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jacekowski	498	00:23
jacekowski	499	00:23
DocScrutinizer	we got one minute	00:23
DocScrutinizer	left	00:24
TiagoTiago	but for these few minutes iMve been here, it hasn't been too noisy at all	00:24
Aranel	Does kernel-power work on pr1.3? It conflicts with kernel-maemo and kernel-maemo-modules, should I remove them? I need it to do fsck.	00:24
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jacekowski	500	00:24
* brik is so tempted to leave now		00:24
DocScrutinizer	\o/	00:24
fi9o	lulz	00:24
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CreamyG	it's below feezing and snow outside here :(	00:25
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* DocScrutinizer wonders how many users fired up a second identity just for the fun of it		00:25
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* TiagoTiago hands Creamy a cup of hot cocoa		00:26
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, qwerty12 accepted my request	00:26
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crashanddie	well, we can be proud, with 500 users, we're representing 0.8% of freenode :)	00:26
TiagoTiago	lol	00:26
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: duh!	00:26
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: what request?	00:26
MohammadAG51	pastebinit	00:27
DocScrutinizer	aah, your request to become king	00:27
MohammadAG51	http://maemo.org/packages/view/pastebinit/ expected him to take time	00:27
* crashanddie sets mode +k MohammadAG51		00:27
TiagoTiago	what percentage of channels also have 500+ people?	00:27
* MohammadAG51 sets mode +b crashanddie		00:27
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CreamyG	1/1000	00:29
sjk	hello!	00:29
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: #maemo is Freenode's 22nd channel.	00:29
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CreamyG	theres like 20 / 26k over 500	00:29
jacekowski	wow	00:29
DocScrutinizer	guess where's #ubuntu	00:29
jacekowski	i disabled all repos except ssu repo	00:29
jacekowski	and it's working	00:30
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TiagoTiago	it wouldn't mean much if channels from 23 to 700 had about 499 people on each	00:30
chem\|st	has anyone windows here?	00:30
DocScrutinizer	CreamyG: there's like 20k / 26k virtual or dead channels too	00:30
TiagoTiago	lol	00:30
CreamyG	we tie if you add qt + meego + maemo :D	00:30
CreamyG	althogh its probalby the same 500 ppl in each	00:31
Aranel	Does kernel-power work on pr1.3? It conflicts with kernel-maemo and kernel-maemo-modules, should I remove them? I need it to do fsck.	00:31
lardman	fcrochik: you about?	00:31
crashanddie	TiagoTiago: first channel with under 400 users is 36	00:31
jacekowski	Aranel: it doesn't	00:31
Aranel	jacekowski: d'oh :\| thanks. :)	00:32
TiagoTiago	would there be a way to do the update using commandline and t(temporarilly) redirecting the tmp folder to the bigger partition to not need to clean up rootfs?	00:32
lardman	Aranel: no, don't remove them	00:32
TiagoTiago	i see	00:32
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: please read backscroll!	00:32
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jacekowski	TiagoTiago: i did it like that	00:32
jacekowski	TiagoTiago: to do 1.1 ->1.2	00:32
jacekowski	but it was tricky	00:32
lardman	fcrochik: was just wondering what you had encoded in that 1x1" business card qrcode of yours?	00:32
crashanddie	lol, #maemo has 120 more users than #windows! woohoo!	00:33
TiagoTiago	lol	00:33
MohammadAG51	lol	00:33
sjk	Does the N900 have the ability to detect movement (eg. tilting the phone), like the iphone?	00:33
jacekowski	sjk: yes	00:33
crashanddie	sjk: yes, it has an accelerometer	00:33
MohammadAG51	what doesn't	00:33
crashanddie	sjk: it doesn't have a giroscope, like the iphone 4 does, however.	00:33
crashanddie	gyroscope?	00:33
CreamyG	we don't have a compass either	00:33
crashanddie	indeed	00:34
MohammadAG51	magnetometer crashanddie	00:34
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Scelt	periscope?	00:34
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crashanddie	stfuscope	00:34
CreamyG	stylus = periscome	00:34
CreamyG	uhhh	00:34
sjk	gyroscope, yes	00:34
CreamyG	u know what i meant	00:34
sjk	I see	00:34
sjk	Thanks!	00:34
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DocScrutinizer	colloscope	00:34
MohammadAG51	crashanddie, gtfoscope	00:34
lardman	dragly: Did you manage to test a home build? I've just re-built the pythonqt plugin and it won't load	00:35
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: lemonparty.oscope	00:35
* MohammadAG51 runs		00:35
crashanddie	I WIN	00:35
* MohammadAG51 gets butcher's knife and runs back		00:35
* crashanddie throws banana peels on the floor		00:36
* CreamyG goes back to doing timecards		00:36
* MohammadAG51 trips and throws knife towards crashanddie		00:36
MohammadAG51	matrix slowmo	00:36
* DocScrutinizer sets mode +stfukids *		00:36
* crashanddie evades but sustains -5 charisma from being hit in the face with a wiped out banana peel		00:37
lardman	in an SB upgrade, should I see packages which have been "kept back"?	00:37
crashanddie	depends if the movers took them or not, check the attic, lardman.	00:37
MohammadAG51	new pastebinit in repo	00:37
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MohammadAG51	cc DocScrutinizer	00:37
* chem\|st casts white rabbits all over the place and cries REVENGE		00:37
DocScrutinizer	apt-g.. err	00:38
MohammadAG51	wfm	00:38
MohammadAG51	apt-get update :P	00:38
crashanddie	I want infobot to understand apt-get	00:38
crashanddie	so that we can apt-get remove $ircUsername	00:38
crashanddie	and apt-get remove $ircUsername --purge	00:38
MohammadAG51	LOL	00:38
MohammadAG51	wrong syntax	00:39
crashanddie	yeah yeah, you get the idea	00:39
chem\|st	~silence	00:39
crashanddie	I didn't say I implemented apt :P	00:39
DocScrutinizer	meh, fail	00:39
MohammadAG51	it'll try to remove --purge	00:39
MohammadAG51	which fails	00:39
D-man	Guys, do you think it's possible to disable autostart of the cammera if lens cover is opened?	00:40
crashanddie	well, it shouldn;'t	00:40
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: linux specification says that if an argument	00:40
crashanddie	crap	00:40
DocScrutinizer	omg apt-get update, though it worked nevertheless, but pastebinit doesn't	00:40
lardman	D-man: yes	00:40
MohammadAG51	dsmetool -k /usr/bin/camera-ui	00:40
chem\|st	D-man: do you think that bananas can go brown?	00:40
D-man	i don't know.. do they?	00:40
MohammadAG51	or edit file in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/17camera-ui	00:40
MohammadAG51	iirc	00:40
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: linux specification says that if a data argument starting with one or two hyphens is expected, it should be passed along as --	00:40
chem\|st	D-man: what MohammadAG51 said!	00:41
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: as in: ./test -- --foo	00:41
D-man	ok.. will look at it, thanks!	00:41
MohammadAG51	apt is retarded in terms of arguments	00:41
* DocScrutinizer <<-- idiot. replaced pastebinit with same version		00:41
MohammadAG51	it has to be before the command	00:41
MohammadAG51	apt-get update && apt-get install pastebinit :p	00:41
MohammadAG51	without the smiley	00:41
chem\|st	D-man: tweakr prevents the slide from unlocking the screen	00:41
crashanddie	by the way	00:42
crashanddie	MohammadAG51: I'm learning... rpm	00:42
chem\|st	D-man: and anotherone makes a configurable button out of it	00:42
GAN900	crashanddie, does it hurt?	00:42
jacekowski	failed in buffer_write(fd) (10, ret=-1): backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so': No space left on device	00:42
jacekowski	oi	00:42
crashanddie	GAN900: well, less than deb :D	00:42
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crashanddie	GAN900: I have to say, building a .rpm is a lot less painful than building a .deb	00:42
GAN900	Huh	00:43
lardman	dragly: was apparently my lack of a dist- in my apt-get command	00:43
trumee	can pidgin do file transfer for gtalk?	00:43
crashanddie	trumee: nope	00:43
crashanddie	trumee: not on ubuntu, last I checked	00:43
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* DocScrutinizer stares at fremantle-1.2/free Packages [2781kB] fremantle/free Packages [6014kB]		00:43
trumee	is there any way to send a file to a gtalk user via IM?	00:44
jacekowski	nope	00:44
trumee	crap	00:44
lardman	+1	00:44
lardman	just broke my sb somehow	00:44
TiagoTiago	just email it?	00:44
DocScrutinizer	NOOOOOOoooo	00:44
DocScrutinizer	The following extra packages will be installed:	00:45
DocScrutinizer	python-configobj	00:45
juozapas	after upgrade grr uses black bakcground so its impossible to read text if font color is also black (and it happens mostly). maybe u know any solution?	00:45
trumee	TiagoTiago, yes guess no workaround	00:45
DocScrutinizer	FSCKNG FREAKIN SCARY SHIT	00:46
crashanddie	juozapas: more information required. What application are you talking about?	00:46
TiagoTiago	it would be great if someone released a Hildon, GTK, qt etc that automaticly detects and fixes when text and background colors are the same	00:47
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crashanddie	TiagoTiago: it would be great if someone released a python interpreter, and also gcc/g++ compilers that automatically detect when you made a typo, and fix it.	00:47
* ZogG hugs DocScrutinizer		00:47
D-man	um.. there's no 17camera-ui in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ ...	00:48
juozapas	crashanddie: grr. progam to read rss from google reader	00:48
TiagoTiago	lol	00:48
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: is pastebinit depending on python-configobj?	00:48
crashanddie	juozapas: what's the name of the app? Can you take a screenshot?	00:48
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lardman	What do you lot get by way of include paths when building in scratchbox? I'm getting some wierd paths turning up i.e. the full path to the dir from outside of SB	00:48
lardman	http://maemo.pastebin.com/fFqdJBsz	00:48
juozapas	crashanddie: sorry i dont know how to make a ss via n900 :)	00:49
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crashanddie	~screenshot	00:49
infobot	well, screenshot is 'import -window root screenshot.jpg' (requires imagemagick), or The Gimp's 'acquire -> screenshot' feature. The package scrot does a nice job too, command line, date & size shot at and png format. or man xwd	00:49
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crashanddie	wtf	00:49
wmarone	hmm	00:49
TiagoTiago	control-shift-P	00:49
wmarone	I'm surprised at how responsive pr1.3 is under heavy CPU load	00:49
TiagoTiago	it goes where photos go i think	00:50
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, i think so, yes	00:50
ZogG	there is screenshot dir	00:50
ZogG	but it goes there	00:50
TiagoTiago	oh, ok	00:50
TiagoTiago	lol	00:50
juozapas	TiagoTiago: yea thx	00:50
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: and will python-configobj in turn mess up and rape my whole system?	00:50
ZogG	there is command package for maemo too	00:50
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MohammadAG51	why should it	00:51
lcuk	TiagoTiago, ZogG ~/MyDocs/.images/Screenshots	00:51
jacekowski	grr	00:51
DocScrutinizer	dependencies on fsckit-4-m05	00:51
jacekowski	i just upgraded modem	00:51
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG51 maybe wgetpaste can be installed too	00:51
nox-	ok powerkernel got lost it looks like, kismet is now broken	00:51
DocScrutinizer	for example	00:51
TiagoTiago	~kismet	00:51
infobot	hmm... kismet is http://www.kismetwireless.net/	00:51
TiagoTiago	ah	00:52
DocScrutinizer	nox-: please read backscroll	00:52
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DocScrutinizer	of course a kernel update will replace power kernel (only if you're lucky)	00:52
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nox-	so i could just reinstall it?	00:53
DocScrutinizer	nox-: please read backscroll	00:53
FIQ	rootfs 227.9M 226.6M 0 100% /	00:53
FIQ	do I win? :P	00:53
jacekowski	FIQ: i just had same thing	00:54
TiagoTiago	i had it go 100% full some days ago, couldn't even create temp files	00:54
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: winners start at 250 of 227.9MB used	00:54
FIQ	Why doesn't anything happen when i sudo apt-get clean? D:	00:54
FIQ	lol	00:55
FIQ	how do you use that much	00:55
FIQ	120%	00:55
FIQ	:p	00:55
DocScrutinizer	use the power	00:55
DocScrutinizer	the force	00:55
TiagoTiago	lol	00:55
DocScrutinizer	dark side...	00:55
* nox- only found <DocScrutinizer> Aranel: please read backscroll! - i think my backscroll doesnt go back far enough...		00:56
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DocScrutinizer	FIQ: rootfs is ubifs, it won't immediately free up space of deleted files	00:56
FIQ	k	00:56
FIQ	interesting	00:56
trumee	crashanddie, pidgin seems to have file transfer support	00:57
TiagoTiago	"the force is like ducktape, it has a light and a dark side and it keeps universe together"	00:57
nox-	haha	00:57
crashanddie	trumee: hmm, does it depend on target support of file transfer?	00:57
crashanddie	lcuk: http://www.ted.com/talks/pranav_mistry_the_thrilling_potential_of_sixthsense_technology.html	00:57
FIQ	Whatever, can i do somethingg or am i screwed? :p	00:57
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FIQ	As, for example, apt-get seems to do nothing	00:57
FIQ	er	00:58
FIQ	apt-get clean*	00:58
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juozapas	crashanddie: http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5075/screenshot2010102623523.png	00:59
trumee	crashanddie, no idea. i have yet to send a file.	00:59
DocScrutinizer	nox-: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T23:50:55	01:00
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nox-	ah ok, thx	01:00
juozapas	crashanddie: oh update just came of grr	01:00
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: usually reboot will free up space, if you deleted some files previously	01:01
TiagoTiago	be back in a bit, pizza is here	01:02
FIQ	I performed the PR upgrade, as the application manager refused to show me the upgrade, doesn't apt free up some temp space when it encounters an error?	01:02
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DocScrutinizer	errr...	01:04
DocScrutinizer	~flashing	01:04
infobot	i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	01:04
DocScrutinizer	to answer your next question	01:04
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FIQ	Heh, so i guess i'm screwed then. :p	01:05
DocScrutinizer	see /topic	01:05
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FIQ	But i've done it before, np	01:05
chem\|st	FIQ: no... you ran into a nice little nokia present...	01:05
* FIQ\|n900 tries reboot as last hope but is not optimistic		01:06
crashanddie	FIQ: apt isn't related to app manager	01:06
chem\|st	FIQ: did you have some fancy 3D games installed?	01:06
juozapas	crashanddie: after grr update everythings ok	01:06
crashanddie	cool	01:06
FIQ	no	01:06
FIQ	i hadn't	01:06
chem\|st	dont reboot!	01:06
FIQ	ok	01:06
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FIQ	i've storage usage installed, can check what takes space. :p	01:07
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chem\|st	does apt-get upgrade tell anything special?	01:07
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DocScrutinizer	answer NO!	01:07
chem\|st	FIQ: healthcheck?	01:08
FIQ	uuuuhm	01:08
DocScrutinizer	...to apt-get upgrade	01:08
FIQ	usr 267MB	01:08
FIQ	chem\|st: nope	01:09
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chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: does apt-get upgrade still ask to confirm?	01:09
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DocScrutinizer	dunno, it did in former times	01:09
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FIQ	lib 186MB bin 75.2MB	01:09
FIQ	...why does php take up that much space	01:10
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* FIQ attempt to remove it		01:10
chem\|st	FIQ: what is df -h telling about / and /home?	01:10
DocScrutinizer	du -x /\|sort -n	01:10
FIQ\|n900	/dev/mmcblk0p2 26.6G 7.2G 18.0G 29% /home	01:10
FIQ\|n900	rootfs 227.9M 224.1M 0 100% /	01:10
chem\|st	lol	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	HAHAHAHA 26G /home and 100% /	01:11
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DocScrutinizer	this repartitioning was a real success story	01:12
FIQ	Hm, yeah, that thing worked just fine	01:12
chem\|st	might be not enough space... mv locales archive to home and slink it for a few minutes then uninstall some crap and mv it back where it was	01:12
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chem\|st	I doubt it will even uninstall in this state	01:13
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DocScrutinizer	100% / == full stop deadlock	01:13
chem\|st	does apt-get autoclean do anything (that was on another partition since 1.2 isnt it?)	01:13
FIQ	Yay	01:13
FIQ	2.7M free	01:13
FIQ	in root	01:14
chem\|st	DocScrutinizer: he has the root backupspace left...	01:14
chem\|st	3MB lol	01:14
FIQ	3.6M	01:14
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chem\|st	you need to free at least 50...	01:14
DocScrutinizer	check var/ for bogus shit	01:15
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jacekowski	50M is not even close to what it needs	01:15
jacekowski	packages take up 70	01:15
jacekowski	or more	01:15
FIQ	You're talking about temporary space now, aren't you?	01:15
chem\|st	jacekowski: I thought the package cache has left / and moved somewhere /home?	01:15
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FIQ	Because, then a simple symlink would probably do it if you do it right	01:16
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DocScrutinizer	I witnessed microB/mediaplayer spooling mediastreams to /var/foo* and filling up rootfs for example	01:16
jacekowski	chem\|st: nope	01:16
FIQ	var is just 19MB	01:16
jacekowski	not on mine anyways	01:16
FIQ	it's usr that is the problem	01:16
nox-	DocScrutinizer, :(	01:16
FIQ	...	01:16
FIQ	Now storage usage shows 302MB usage there	01:16
FIQ	325*	01:17
chem\|st	ouh nice youtube now recognizes n900 as mobile and streams as default and mediaplayer has no decoder...	01:17
* DocScrutinizer cackles satanically		01:17
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: NOW you're a winner	01:17
FIQ	The biggest problem seems to be my locale dir	01:18
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: try sync	01:18
FIQ	23M there	01:18
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DocScrutinizer	heard it triggers garbage collector on ubifs	01:18
chem\|st	FIQ: that is the locale-archive...	01:18
nox-	btw is the gps `compass' totally unreliable for you guys too?	01:19
nox-	points in all kinds of directions here...	01:19
DocScrutinizer	there's no such thing like a GPS compass	01:19
jacekowski	nox-: you have to move	01:19
jacekowski	nox-: at quite high speed	01:19
chem\|st	nox-: move	01:19
nox-	jacekowski, oh	01:19
chem\|st	jacekowski: walking is enough	01:19
trumee	funny i pull out the wall charger and get the usuall mass storage dialog box.	01:20
orospakr	argh, modest (is that what it's called?) seems bad at handling mail with a text/html part, even if a text/plain version is available. It will require me to scroll around horizontally to read the text as if it was rendering in a HTML window like you might see on a desktop.	01:20
DocScrutinizer	still it shows the vector of your movement, which is NOT == oreintation of device	01:20
chem\|st	nox-: there are no magnetic compass in no n900's world..	01:20
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nox-	i c...	01:20
jacekowski	WOW	01:21
jacekowski	it's working	01:21
orospakr	That is a pretty spectacular fail. Is there at least a setting I can change to make it prefer text/plain?	01:21
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DocScrutinizer	magnetic compass aka orientation and GPS vector aka movement direction are unrealted compementary data	01:21
DocScrutinizer	unrelated complementary*	01:22
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FIQ	Now usr is just 244M as storage-usage says	01:22
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: won't make us feel any better	01:23
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FIQ	19N free :d	01:24
FIQ	M*	01:24
DocScrutinizer	enough for a reboot	01:24
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orospakr	man stupid little niggles like this make me wonder if I was so wise in ditching Android after all. :(	01:24
orospakr	I hope Meego does better.	01:24
DocScrutinizer	eh?	01:24
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jacekowski	seems little bit faster	01:25
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orospakr	mail app brokeness, hard to access phone functionality (missing hard buttons), Conversations bugs, etc.	01:25
jacekowski	hmm, no	01:25
jacekowski	i take that back	01:25
DocScrutinizer	stay with android! it won't allow to install extras-devel pkgs until device bursts	01:25
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DocScrutinizer	ooh, this.	01:25
jacekowski	WOW	01:25
flexxxxv	~1.3	01:25
orospakr	DocScrutinizer, oh, I am well aware. I absolutely love having a real community repository of actual free software. That's the part Android gets spectacularly wrong.	01:25
jacekowski	modest is fast	01:25
jacekowski	ish	01:25
jacekowski	it's not as bad as it used to be	01:25
flexxxxv	~pr1.3	01:26
jacekowski	i'm amazed	01:26
infobot	somebody said pr1.3 was the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	01:26
FIQ	And, now i've 27M free, so now reboot. :p	01:26
orospakr	Also, why didn't Nokia publish an actual changelog for PR1.3?	01:26
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: check your conversations	01:26
zap	What incantation I must chant after installing a icon file into /usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/apps to see it on my app (referenced in .desktop file) rather than just a blue square?	01:26
zap	gtk-update-icon-cache seems bogus now	01:26
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: particularly SMS	01:26
FIQ	And, about people filling up root with crap, they have just themself to punish. :3	01:26
flexxxxv	btw whats going on with talk? all day connection probs. now database error	01:26
jacekowski	i don't care about that	01:26
jacekowski	nobody sends me smses	01:26
jacekowski	and i don't send smses as well	01:27
crashanddie	flexxxxv: pr1.3 has brought in the masses	01:27
FIQ	I wouldn't really classify me as smart when using Maemo, and i've never done anything in the right way really	01:27
DocScrutinizer	zap: the incantation is like "reboot"	01:27
crashanddie	jacekowski: either	01:27
orospakr	I have a feeling that if I want a free software mobile OS that is actually useful, my only hope is to contribute to meego.	01:27
zap	DocScrutinizer: that doesnt work	01:27
DocScrutinizer	hmm	01:27
crashanddie	orospakr: glwt	01:27
DocScrutinizer	let's blame tracker :P	01:27
FIQ	(changing shell with /etc/passwd, force read of my .bashrc with modding profile.d, always having -devel on because of laziness, etc, etc)	01:27
orospakr	But that is a little dumb because as a customer I play companies like Nokia to make the software work well when I buy a phone from them.	01:27
orospakr	s/play/pay/	01:28
infobot	orospakr meant: But that is a little dumb because as a customer I pay companies like Nokia to make the software work well when I buy a phone from them.	01:28
FIQ	I expected my root being full some day, np	01:28
orospakr	on that note, is there documentation yet on how to use the "dual boot" feature of PR1.3 to run dev builds of Meego?	01:29
jacekowski	hmmm, something is broken	01:30
jacekowski	i don't have feedback from screen	01:30
jacekowski	it's not vibrating	01:30
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zap	check your senses	01:30
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: jacekowski: so does that mean you're supporting Nokia when they close that friggin "SMS vanish" ticket with another WONTFIX?	01:30
chem\|st	orospakr: I use (not own) the n900 now for about 8 month and apart of some bugs (most have workarounds or communitypatches) I am glad to not be an iPrank or google addict	01:31
jacekowski	DocScrutinizer: no	01:31
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: I was correcting his english	01:31
* DocScrutinizer nods, shaking fist		01:31
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crashanddie	DocScrutinizer: he used "as well" instead of "either"	01:31
jacekowski	hmmm, i think i'll flash it	01:31
chem\|st	orospakr: google kexec-tools	01:31
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zap	flash and burn	01:32
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TiagoTiago	lol	01:32
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jacekowski	yeah	01:32
jacekowski	no sound	01:32
jacekowski	no vibrations	01:32
jacekowski	something went wrong	01:32
chem\|st	jacekowski: ouch	01:32
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DocScrutinizer	PR-1.3-666	01:33
TiagoTiago	are mo and tmo in different servers?	01:34
DocScrutinizer	yup, afaik	01:34
* DocScrutinizer points TiagoTiago to the nice cmds dig and host		01:34
TiagoTiago	are those cmds avaiable on the N900's xterm?	01:35
crashanddie	night all	01:35
DocScrutinizer	good question, next question please	01:35
DocScrutinizer	night crashanddie	01:35
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FIQ	52M free in root	01:36
FIQ	how much do i need for PR1.3 upgrading work flawless?	01:36
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TiagoTiago	+infinity	01:37
chem\|st	TiagoTiago: not even the same continent mo and tmo	01:38
jacekowski	hmm, no uk variant for 1.3	01:38
chem\|st	jacekowski: I do not even know why there is one for 1.2...	01:39
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TiagoTiago	wow	01:39
E0x	~pr1.3	01:40
infobot	pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	01:40
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E0x	~flashing	01:41
infobot	hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	01:41
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TiagoTiago	I wish there was some automated poll showing how popular each theme for the N900 is	01:42
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E0x	i feel that themes make the device more slow ( using it )	01:43
E0x	because of that i come back to the original everytime	01:43
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: >>lookup - A gckraphical DNS lookup utility that supports DNSSEC.<< if you give it a try, then please report ba	01:43
DocScrutinizer	ck	01:43
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chem\|st	TiagoTiago: dallas.tx.ibone.comcast.net for tmo and heltli1.fi.elisa.net for maemo.org	01:44
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TiagoTiago	interesting	01:44
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chem\|st	TiagoTiago: tmo is internettablettalk.com hosted in dallas	01:45
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* DocScrutinizer curses this touchpad and the bloody xserver switch that broke all touchpad tools		01:45
TiagoTiago	hm, any idea why i am not getting any response when i try to ping maemo.org?	01:45
E0x	dns problems ?	01:45
TiagoTiago	it loads with the browser	01:45
E0x	or icmp block	01:45
chem\|st	TiagoTiago: not all servers respond to pings	01:45
TiagoTiago	why?	01:46
DocScrutinizer	to annoy you	01:46
E0x	hehe	01:46
ShadowJK	mostly that, yeah	01:46
peb_	no, probably a filter on the routers. There have been ping-based Denial of Service attacks ...	01:46
TiagoTiago	i can ping google. com for example, so its probably not an issue on my side	01:46
TiagoTiago	hm	01:47
E0x	TiagoTiago: some DoS attack make use of the icmp reply	01:47
TiagoTiago	i see	01:47
ShadowJK	it's kinda silly	01:47
ShadowJK	it's not even apmplifying	01:47
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peb_	shit, I'm lurking here instead of finishing the presentation due tomorrow morning ..	01:48
DocScrutinizer	it's almost as silly as hidden SSIDs are	01:48
DocScrutinizer	but really just almost	01:48
chem\|st	TiagoTiago: few years ago google.org was requested to move IP by a random person and it did proceed...	01:48
ShadowJK	or magnetic fuel optimizers on cars	01:48
DocScrutinizer	hrhrhrrrr	01:49
kerio	ddoses are scary	01:49
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chem\|st	s/move/change	01:49
ShadowJK	chem: route change icmp request isn't same thing as icmp echo	01:49
TiagoTiago	is there any other way to prevent the ping reply DDoS other than crippling the ping functionality all over the web?	01:49
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: ack	01:49
E0x	nokia software QA team are scary ( or i think it is )	01:49
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chem\|st	ShadowJK: thats not what I am talking about	01:50
TiagoTiago	lol	01:50
chem\|st	it was a full stated dns change	01:50
TiagoTiago	who owned google.org?	01:51
ShadowJK	the stupid way is to ignore all icmp, which breaks stuff. then you can just drop icmp route thingy, which is kinda half smart. or you could like do source route checking so that people can't spoof source IP anymore	01:51
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: aiui there's no such thing like a ICMP ECHO aka ping based DDoS	01:51
ShadowJK	chem\|ist: ok so that has nothing to do with icmp then	01:51
chem\|st	the admin excused it with that he never believed anyone would try that and put the request through	01:51
TiagoTiago	sounds plausible	01:51
E0x	DocScrutinizer: not now	01:51
chem\|st	ShadowJK: nope just with google...	01:51
E0x	i remember one in 1996	01:52
DocScrutinizer	there's been a ping of death in former times	01:52
ShadowJK	I'm absolutely shocked that it's 2010 and I can send out packets with arbitrary source IPs over the internet and watch them arrive at a server on a different isp in a different country	01:52
TiagoTiago	send lots of ping requests for thousands of servers spoofing the origin and the responses will hit the target in weight	01:52
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: so what?	01:52
ShadowJK	TiagoTiago's example ;p	01:53
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: or send all those pings directly to the target :-P	01:53
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TiagoTiago	That is kinda an essential functionality for mobile IP, no?	01:53
ShadowJK	mobile IP is a myth	01:53
TiagoTiago	lol	01:53
ShadowJK	besides, replies wont go anywhere	01:53
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ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer, iirc one kind of death ping involved setting source address to the broadcast address ;p	01:54
DocScrutinizer	HOORAY - no "meh, pr1.3 doesn't upgrade for me" foo for >5min	01:54
nox-	haha	01:55
jacekowski	meh it did upgrade but phone got fucked up	01:55
chem\|st	ShadowJK: thats why routers deny that	01:55
jacekowski	chem\|st: bs	01:55
jacekowski	chem\|st: routers have nothing to do with it	01:55
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: yup, a nice one	01:55
jacekowski	chem\|st: broadcasts are not passed between broadcast domains	01:55
nox-	at least for me it seems to have worked, i only have to wait for an updated power kernel now...	01:55
ShadowJK	oh also, /ctcp #channel +++ATH0 was fun back in the days	01:56
jacekowski	chem\|st: and it's routers that separate broadcast domains	01:56
nox-	haha	01:56
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: LOL	01:56
chem\|st	jacekowski: pardon	01:56
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jacekowski	00:55 < chem\|st> ShadowJK: thats why routers deny that	01:57
kerio	but pr1.3 doesn't upgrade for me!	01:57
ShadowJK	jacekowski, there's a missing detail in it, it was possible to set computers inside a broadcast domain off from the outside, to start generating pakctes which made other machines reply to broadcast which made other machines reply, etc	01:57
DocScrutinizer	hah, kerio lost the game	01:57
DocScrutinizer	:-P	01:57
jacekowski	ShadowJK: but that's bug in implementation	01:57
jacekowski	ShadowJK: that's why it was working at all	01:58
ShadowJK	sure	01:58
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jacekowski	is HAM any faster in 1.3?	01:58
DocScrutinizer	ping storm	01:58
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DocScrutinizer	NY primetime, Asia early morning, let's see if we hit the 500 again in a few minutes	02:00
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* DocScrutinizer yawns		02:01
E0x	hmmm i can remain the emmc untouch and just flash the fiasco ?	02:01
DocScrutinizer	yes	02:01
E0x	look like the same	02:01
GuySoft	hi all, running maemo4 nokia N810 here, and i am getting memory leaks from multiple maemo-launcher processes, any way to fix this?	02:01
E0x	good	02:01
jacekowski	E0x: not the best idea as it leaves some crap	02:02
DocScrutinizer	meh	02:02
E0x	i will anyway reflash emmc too , for some real testing	02:02
E0x	jacekowski: yes , that is what i think too	02:02
ShadowJK	GuySoft: every thing you start is a maemo-launcher process	02:02
GuySoft	ShadowJK, ok, so is there a way to find which are the bad ones?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	E0x: jacekowski: odds are you're going the same crap again after upgrade, so implicitly cleaning up	02:03
GuySoft	Shadikka, they are really getting it stuck	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/gioing/going to install/	02:03
E0x	DocScrutinizer: :D	02:03
ShadowJK	guysoft: i forget but maybe htop shows the true name	02:03
DocScrutinizer	s/going/going to install/ whatever	02:03
ShadowJK	ah it does	02:04
E0x	i stop using extra-testing since 1.2	02:04
E0x	i think package in extra that not work in lasted update need downgrade to testing	02:04
E0x	or something	02:04
DocScrutinizer	E0x: pkgs that don't work aren't supposed to be in extras anyway	02:05
* GuySoft installing htop		02:05
GuySoft	ShadowJK, ok, thanks, ill use that to monitor whats causing the havoc	02:06
* E0x hungry		02:06
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FIQ	Yay, done freeing up root space	02:10
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TiagoTiago	i'm heading off, cya	02:11
FIQ	ended up with 71.8M when i uninstalled random applications, symlinked locales to home, and moved dpkg's temporary download directory (why is it still in root per default...?)	02:11
FIQ	by	02:11
FIQ	e	02:11
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jacekowski	what was name of that better menu app?	02:13
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FIQ	catorize?	02:14
SpeedEvil	f something	02:14
jacekowski	other one	02:14
FIQ	or do you mean the one who let's you make directories?	02:14
DocScrutinizer	apmefo	02:14
FIQ	because, then i dunno	02:14
jacekowski	yeah	02:14
jacekowski	that one	02:14
jacekowski	apmefo	02:14
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FIQ	...	02:15
FIQ	Why didn't i move apt's directory way ago?	02:15
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SpeedEvil	yeah - that on	02:15
FIQ	This seems to make my life easier, now my root doesn't go low everytime i install something	02:15
Pillum	is there a power kernel for pr 1.3 already available?	02:16
FIQ	is there some drawbacks with having it on MMC, or do Nokia fail?	02:16
jacekowski	Pillum: no	02:16
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Pillum	FIQ: which folder did you moved?	02:17
FIQ	/var/lib/dpkg	02:17
Pillum	and whats in there?	02:17
FIQ	(and symlinked the old one, obviously)	02:17
FIQ	Temporary downloaded .deb's, info about installed packages (iirc?)	02:17
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Pillum	with MMC u mean SD card?	02:18
Pillum	or emmc?	02:18
FIQ	No, eMMC	02:18
FIQ	the 32GB one	02:18
Pillum	the disadvantage is that your maemo os cannot have access to it, while your phone is connected to pc via mass storage or pc suite mode	02:19
Pillum	and its slower	02:19
Pillum	then the root	02:19
FIQ	The first thing don't apply for me as I've repartitioned	02:19
lcuk	FIQ, where did you move the folder to?	02:20
lcuk	/home/opt/* ?	02:20
FIQ	yes	02:20
lcuk	good	02:20
FIQ	/opt/var/lib/dpkg	02:20
lcuk	thats not part of the 29gb FAT partition of mydocs	02:20
FIQ	About the fact that eMMC is slower, I don't really think that would be such a high disadventage for something like dpkg	02:20
FIQ	Yeah, i know	02:20
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lcuk	for what its worth, afaik the debs are downloaded in the /var/cache/apt folder	02:21
lcuk	dpkg knows nothing of downloading ;)	02:21
lcuk	you moved the database to there though	02:21
FIQ	Ah, ok	02:22
FIQ	...Wouldn't that mean that the PR upgrade would take rootspace as crazy?	02:22
FIQ	Because everything is downloaded atm, and it's installing	02:22
FIQ	and i still have 73.8M free	02:22
lcuk	/var/cache/apt is already moved to opt - it was something specific in 1.2	02:23
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FIQ	Oh, ok	02:23
DocScrutinizer	lo lcuk	02:23
lcuk	hi doc	02:23
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: isn't HAM using a completely different location for cache anyway? sth like /user/MyDocs/.cache	02:25
lcuk	probably, but the apt cache is still an issue for people who use console	02:27
DocScrutinizer	yep	02:27
DocScrutinizer	that's one of the reasons why apt-get --foobar is deprecated, I'd guess	02:28
FIQ	Hm	02:30
FIQ	Kernel update it were	02:30
* FIQ reboot		02:30
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FIQ	~pr1.3	02:33
infobot	it has been said that pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	02:33
FIQ	Meh, no wiki link to a changelog	02:33
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Pillum	does PR 1.3 include a new kernel or can i still use the old power kernel?	02:40
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DocScrutinizer	hehe, I got the most expensive remote control ever, for my TV. A N900 for handset, and a N900 in front of my TV, sending the IR cmds it receives from other device via WiFi	03:05
DocScrutinizer	works like a charm	03:05
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spinningcompass	DocScrutinizer: Would you like to invest in properties in Fresno, CA (since you have money to burn)? :)	03:06
rysiek\|pl	ah... if only the FreeRunner had IR...	03:06
rysiek\|pl	hmmm	03:06
DocScrutinizer	all I did was loading and starting same matching irreco remote on both, and replacing "localhost" by <IP of TV relay N900> on the other, in controller config	03:06
rysiek\|pl	by the way, how's the usb host mode going on n900?	03:07
DocScrutinizer	~hostmode	03:07
infobot	rumour has it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197	03:07
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rysiek\|pl	ah, infobot,old pal	03:07
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joshyyz	Hello	03:11
joshyyz	anyone in here that has a Nokia N900?	03:12
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SpeedEvil	There may be several people with one.	03:13
SpeedEvil	Some with two.	03:13
joshyyz	that's nice :D	03:13
joshyyz	I'm thinking about getting one myself but I would like to know abit about it first	03:14
SpeedEvil	What questions do you have?	03:15
DocScrutinizer	dumdidum	03:18
joshyyz	I'm pretty new to smartphones and to maemo so I would like to know what's the main difference between maemo and symbian	03:18
DocScrutinizer	maemo is a linux, and so the N900 a real computer in your pocket, while symbian is, errr... just symbian	03:19
joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: ok .. is maemo based on debian?	03:20
DocScrutinizer	yes, I'd say so	03:20
DocScrutinizer	remotely	03:20
joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: ok thx.. so does that meen that I can open up the xTerminal and use apt-get to install software?	03:20
DocScrutinizer	sure, doing that all the time	03:21
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joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: ok that's nice, I really like that	03:21
DocScrutinizer	though "for regular users" the package manager is the recommended way to install sw	03:22
joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: ofc :)	03:22
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joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: do you know if there are any phones out on the market right now that actually can compete with the n900 I meen it's already "1" year old	03:23
DocScrutinizer	nope, not for my requirements profile	03:23
DarkdowN	Howdy folks	03:24
DocScrutinizer	for sure there are more shiny spyPhones, and cheaper andridiots, but that's not what I want	03:24
joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: ok...I'm pretty much a "geek" I like to do alot of things but I dont use facebook or twitter and stuff like that. But I like to use IRC and stuff like that on the phone	03:24
DocScrutinizer51	that's irc via N900	03:25
DarkdowN	I'm missing the liblocation.so.0 file can somebody send it to me?	03:25
* n900evil waves from n900/xchat.		03:25
joshyyz	:)	03:26
DocScrutinizer	DarkdowN: hmm, I guess you'd need the exactly matching modversion	03:26
joshyyz	I actually like like the design of the N900, and since it	03:26
DarkdowN	Man it's been a long time since I (actively) used irc, there sure are a lot of people here!	03:26
joshyyz	200 € less now than 1 year ago i'm seriously thinking about getting it	03:27
DarkdowN	DocScrutinizer51: as long as its fremantle armel would be fine	03:27
DocScrutinizer	DarkdowN: o.O	03:28
DarkdowN	?	03:28
joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: I watched an old video review about the n900 and they said that it did not support MMS is this thing fixed already?	03:29
DarkdowN	Ohh oops BitchX automatically autocompleted to the wrong username, heh	03:29
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DarkdowN	(that's 2 autos in a row, redundant, err.. :)	03:29
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DocScrutinizer	nevermind	03:29
DocScrutinizer	joshyyz: yes, aiui frals gave fmms to the community :-D	03:30
DocScrutinizer	frals: thanks!	03:30
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joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: good :)	03:31
DarkdowN	I can't seem to find it anywhere in the SDK or on maemo.org	03:31
DocScrutinizer	DarkdowN: your *.so won't load unless either VERMAGIC is correct or you do nasty hacks like forcing modprobe etc.	03:31
DocScrutinizer	DarkdowN: aiui it's one of Nokias blobs :-/	03:32
DocScrutinizer	so in SDK there are just the header files, and on maemo.org it will be inside fiasco image which you flash to device	03:33
DocScrutinizer	but I could be completely wrong here	03:33
joshyyz	How about the browsing experience when there is alot of flash, will it become were sluggish?	03:33
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DarkdowN	It should work, if you can toss me one, that'd be great.	03:34
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DocScrutinizer	flash isn't exactly the strongest discipline of N900	03:34
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DocScrutinizer	DarkdowN: I mustn't	03:35
DarkdowN	aiui? there were a lot of libraries in the SDK I just downloaded, just not that one. And flashing a device is much more than i'm trying to do right now, i just need some libraries	03:35
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DarkdowN	D: ?	03:35
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joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: okey well I dont like flash, is it possible to get ad-block hehe? :D	03:36
DocScrutinizer	yes, I think there's a plugin for microB	03:36
timeless_mbp	extension	03:36
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DocScrutinizer	yeah, ask microB developer timeless_mbp - he should know better :-)	03:37
Pillum	app manager doesnt show pr1.3 ota update :/	03:37
Pillum	what should i do	03:37
timeless_mbp	Pillum: be patient?	03:37
Pillum	why patient? thought its already released?	03:37
timeless_mbp	has the OTA part rolled out?	03:37
DocScrutinizer	yes	03:37
timeless_mbp	Pillum: did you break the package seal?	03:38
Pillum	package seal ? :D	03:38
timeless_mbp	if you removed the fremantle metapackage then ham won't recognize the update	03:38
Pillum	hm	03:38
Pillum	how do i know?	03:38
DocScrutinizer	exactly why it doesn't pester me so far :-P	03:38
timeless_mbp	well, ideally you'd remember having uninstalled it	03:39
timeless_mbp	someone can use dpkg -l to find the package name	03:39
DocScrutinizer	or look at HAM uninstall, if it shows up (I guess)	03:39
timeless_mbp	and you can then use dpkg -l to find out if it's present	03:39
Pillum	pkg name is?	03:40
* DocScrutinizer hears joshyyz drooling :-D		03:40
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Pillum	or better, how do i reinstall it?	03:41
DarkdowN	I'm also having trouble downloading the skype package for the n900	03:42
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DocScrutinizer	apt-get install mp-freamntle-generic-pr=10.2010.19-1	03:42
DocScrutinizer	apt-get install mp-freamntle-generic-pr	03:42
DocScrutinizer	even	03:42
joshyyz	is there a specific skype package for the n900?	03:42
bef0rd	skype is preinstalled	03:43
DocScrutinizer	and that's actually fremantle	03:43
DocScrutinizer	shame on you MohammadAG51	03:43
joshyyz	I think i'll have to buy it tomorrow :)	03:43
bef0rd	get it today !	03:44
DarkdowN	skype's not preinstalled on all the n900s unfortunately	03:44
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joshyyz	what's the original internet browser on the phone?	03:44
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bef0rd	microB, gecko based	03:44
dolp	microb	03:44
dolp	:P	03:44
bef0rd	there is a webkit browser too on Extras I believe, also Opera	03:45
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timeless_mbp	you can install Chromium	03:45
DarkdowN	I'm trying to get Opera to work, but I'm missing liblocation.so.0	03:45
timeless_mbp	it doesn't support HTTPS	03:45
joshyyz	Ok.. I would like to know one thing .. I have a Ampache music server @ home and I would like to know if it's possible with the n900 using the browser to stream from the server	03:45
timeless_mbp	hrm, opera worked for me a few hours ago	03:45
dolp	firefooooox	03:45
SpeedEvil	killall pidgin;killall pppd;ro expensive	03:45
SpeedEvil	argh	03:45
timeless_mbp	joshyyz: the browser doesn't really do video/audio	03:46
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timeless_mbp	you either use the media player or the flash plugin	03:46
Pillum	apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr gives me	03:46
Pillum	following packages have unmet dependencies:	03:46
timeless_mbp	Pillum: that generally means you broke the seal at some point	03:46
joshyyz	timeless_mbp: maybe it's possible to install "rythmbox" ? or maybe that's way too heavy	03:46
Pillum	mp-fremantle-generic-pr: Depends: libsdl-mixer1.2	03:46
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DarkdowN	I'd _really_ like to get Opera and Skype running on my Pre. Turns out that not only can ya'll run WebOS apps, but they can run n900 apps! Exciting no?	03:47
Pillum	wut now?	03:47
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Pillum	libsdl-mixer1.23 is already the newest version	03:47
timeless_mbp	joshyyz: how do you expect a browser to do what you're trying to do?	03:48
bef0rd	DarkdowN, cool, I would like to give a try to preenv	03:48
bef0rd	DarkdowN, I dont think you can get Skype that easy though, I believe it's very telepathy/GTK centric on the n900	03:48
timeless_mbp	joshyyz: usually media player will "just work ™"	03:49
DarkdowN	I will have to look at preenv, I wonder if that will give me clues on how to easily get n900 apps to work	03:49
DocScrutinizer	bef0rd: I join that bet	03:49
joshyyz	timeless_mbp: can the mediaplayer play flash audio?	03:49
timeless_mbp	? no, but the browser supports flash, so that'd probably work in the browser	03:50
joshyyz	timeless_mbp: sry for my dumbness	03:50
timeless_mbp	sorry, when people talk about "browser" and audio/video they're usually confused	03:50
bef0rd	joshyyz, also flash audio is probably just h264 or whatever flv uses	03:50
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DarkdowN	bef0rd: telepathy? hmm, will look that up.	03:50
SpeedEvil	Also - mplayer	03:50
DarkdowN	bef0rd: opera I think is a more reasonable goal, that's probably a more direct linux-port rather than a ground-up write..	03:51
DocScrutinizer	~xyawn	03:51
infobot	rumour has it, xyawn is nice coffee	03:51
DocScrutinizer	k	03:51
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	03:51
infobot	DocScrutinizer: :)	03:51
joshyyz	yeah i'm almost confusing myself, the thing is that I have this ampache music server which music I always stream via the webbrowser using the flash	03:52
joshyyz	I hope it works the same way on the phone	03:52
SpeedEvil	Can you punch a hole in a firewall, so someone can check it?	03:52
DocScrutinizer	almost everything browser related works on the phone	03:52
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joshyyz	SpeedEvil: talking to me?? :)	03:53
DocScrutinizer	sure	03:53
SpeedEvil	yes	03:53
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: PR1.2 browser does audio for me	03:53
timeless_mbp	luke-jr: html5 <audio>?	03:54
joshyyz	SpeedEvil: I would but the server is downstairs and it's turned off because it's 3:54 AM here where I live	03:54
SpeedEvil	:)	03:54
luke-jr	timeless_mbp: I think <object>	03:54
bef0rd	joshyyz, I believe I have used ampache and the UI was not flash based, but if you can show us we can see it right now	03:54
luke-jr	no, <audio>	03:55
luke-jr	not sure if HTML 5 compliant	03:55
DocScrutinizer	anyway N900 plays media my linux desktop just says "??????"	03:56
SpeedEvil	Also, there are ohter solutions, for example you might NFS mount the filesystem	03:56
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DocScrutinizer	and I heard mediaplayer knows uPnP	03:57
DocScrutinizer	dunno if that's correct	03:57
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bef0rd	n900 sometimes pickups media shares from some Windows 7 machines on my network, never tried to play from them though	03:58
DarkdowN	i	04:01
joshyyz	how's the N900 Battery? how many ours do you usually get from heavy use?	04:02
Pillum	7h heavy	04:02
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joshyyz	Pillum: ok thx	04:03
jdphone	~pr1.3	04:03
infobot	it has been said that pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	04:03
Pillum	joshyyz: but they say, that with pr 1.3 the battery life time got extended	04:04
Pillum	by a lot!	04:04
joshyyz	Pillum: well that would be nice :	04:04
joshyyz	:)	04:04
joshyyz	Pillum: I'm already drooling for the phone but my wallet is not as excited as I am :D	04:05
Pillum	:D	04:05
jdphone	~flashing	04:05
infobot	hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	04:05
DarkdowN	If anyone can help me with my n900env project it'd be greatly appreciated!	04:06
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Pillum	~maemo	04:07
infobot	from memory, maemo is http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml	04:07
Pillum	~infobot	04:07
infobot	i guess infobot is better than wowbot	04:07
DocScrutinizer	~tell Pillum about query	04:09
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DocScrutinizer	joshyyz: 7h is for really heavy use. On GPRS and xchat (8chan) idle, I usualy see >>24h	04:10
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joshyyz	DocScrutinizer: nice	04:10
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lcuk	DarkdowN, talk to javispedro	04:11
lcuk	he would appear to be your yang	04:12
DarkdowN	lcuk: I'm already on the preenv page :)	04:12
DarkdowN	yang?	04:13
lcuk	yin	04:13
DarkdowN	oh, heh	04:14
DarkdowN	yeah for sure	04:14
luke-jr	Pillum: no way you could get 7h from heavy use	04:14
luke-jr	maybe without networking	04:14
luke-jr	with networking, you'll be lucky to see 4h :/	04:15
luke-jr	even if idle most of the time	04:15
Pillum	lol	04:16
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joshyyz	Well guys I'm going to sleep now and tomorrow I'll go out and buy the N900 so I might come here again for some help. thx	04:19
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SpeedEvil	:)	04:21
DarkdowN	libtime.so.0 and liblocation.so.0 are the only things keeping me from running Opera on my phone, if someone could send them to me that'd be _GREATLY_ appreciated!!	04:22
SpeedEvil	ls -l /usr/lib/liblocation.so.0*	04:25
SpeedEvil	does what	04:25
luke-jr	go out and buy N900? just like that?	04:25
luke-jr	N900 is actually retail somewhere?	04:25
Pillum	wheres the menu for backupping ?	04:26
Pillum	~update	04:26
infobot	dselect update, grabs the Packages.gz files from their sources and refreshes the available packages. Use before an apt-get upgrade, or you can use apt-get update instead of dselect update	04:26
Pillum	~update fw	04:26
DarkdowN	lcuk: Can't seem to find a 'send message' function from maemo.org, gah..	04:28
Pillum	~backup	04:29
infobot	methinks backup is described at http://www.handhelds.org/handhelds-faq/filesystems.html	04:29
DarkdowN	someone had accessed the update info earlier. I can't scroll.. oh yess i can.. they typed ~pr1.3	04:30
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DarkdowN	~flashing	04:32
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	04:32
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Pillum	thx	04:32
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DarkdowN	how do you get a copy of the firmware without having a device?	04:35
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SpeedEvil	they want the IMEI, so you can't.	04:37
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DarkdowN	SpeedEvil: Yeah I know that's pretty unbelievable. huh	04:41
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b-man_	hmm	04:43
b-man_	"Twitter is over capacity." lmao	04:43
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SpeedEvil	DarkdowN: why?	04:44
DarkdowN	ok off to an OS/2 ("BayWarp") users group meeting now	04:44
SpeedEvil	DarkdowN: There is non-free software in tehre.	04:44
DarkdowN	SpeedEvil: Yeah, same with Android, Palm, and others, but the ROMs are out there	04:44
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DarkdowN	ttfn..	04:46
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Jaizuke	Hey Mohammad, are you there?	05:08
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orlok	~pr1.3	05:10
infobot	i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	05:10
orlok	~flashing	05:10
infobot	i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	05:10
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orlok	wow	05:55
orlok	theres a name i havent seen in.. over 10 years now?	05:55
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orlok	raster: i remember when e17 or so was the most incredible desktop i'd seen on a PC heh	05:57
raster	boo	05:58
orlok	raster: i remember when you were still down under heh	05:58
orlok	coopers!	05:59
orlok	or was that the other guy?	05:59
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fredrin	1.3 installfest?	06:03
fredrin	or not	06:03
raster	well i have been in au	06:04
raster	on and off	06:04
raster	depends when :)	06:04
fredrin	good for you :P	06:05
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fredrin	raster, you have an n900?	06:11
orlok	fredrin: according to his website, yes	06:11
fredrin	thanks	06:11
fredrin	bot	06:11
raster	fr i do.	06:12
raster	fredrin: i do	06:12
fredrin	as your main phone?	06:12
DocScrutinizer	lol	06:12
fredrin	running shr :P	06:12
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* fredrin wants to run shr on his n900		06:13
raster	fredrin: no. for many reasons. 1. n900 was unstable as anything. would barely last 5 mins without rebooting. it self-bricked itself 2 or 3 times.	06:14
raster	its stable now with latest firmware	06:14
raster	or mostly	06:14
DocScrutinizer51	so what's stopping you?	06:14
raster	still gles driver bugs - several of them	06:14
raster	but i moved country	06:15
raster	and n900 is useless here	06:15
raster	korea network locks phones	06:15
raster	ie	06:15
fredrin	in the north?	06:15
raster	if phone ime is NOT ap approved imei that the telco sold u - sim card wont work.	06:15
raster	no	06:15
raster	south	06:15
fredrin	ok	06:15
raster	the reverse of simlocking	06:15
raster	so u cant buy a phone and just use a korean telco sim card	06:16
fredrin	so no skype then?	06:16
fredrin	or wifi	06:16
fredrin	:P	06:16
raster	there is wifi	06:16
fredrin	bluetooth?	06:16
raster	but why would i be that silly to make my phone only work where there is wifi	06:16
raster	?	06:16
orlok	my N900 seems to keep loosing its SIM connection	06:16
raster	as such most of my day - in the office, there is no wifi i can use for an n900	06:16
raster	security reasons.	06:17
raster	network is locked down - wifi is for testing only.	06:17
orlok	raster: lucky you, the bosses here complained until i was forced to install an AP	06:17
fredrin	sounds boring	06:17
raster	also firewalls will niceyl make things like skype impossible if not problematic :)	06:17
raster	so anyway	06:17
DocScrutinizer51	raster: better than the insanity we had in TPE :-P	06:17
raster	point is - n900 is largely useless here - it just is a toy on my desk at home i use to see how much worse the sgx530 is and how many things are not implemented right in the n900 gles stack :)	06:18
raster	either way	06:18
raster	my regular phone is a glaaxys	06:18
raster	galaxy-s	06:18
raster	much much much much nicer hw than the n900	06:19
raster	by a country mile	06:19
slingr	raster> can't you use a SIM that will masq a given IMEI	06:19
fredrin	north korea is crazy	06:19
fredrin	:P	06:20
wmarone	raster: well yes, it's how many months newer?	06:20
wmarone	though it's using pentile, which kills any joy for SAMOLED I might have :(	06:20
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raster	slingr: well other than the fact that you just dont have any such things here - you cant just buy a sim. in korea the networks are hevily locked down. much worse than the usa or even japan. masquing an imei would be illegal in korea. it'd be hacking a telco network - or classed as such.	06:24
raster	you do know that in jp and kr - reflashing a phone for example is illegal	06:25
raster	doesn't matter if it runs linux	06:25
raster	android	06:25
raster	or whatever gpl says	06:25
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raster	when you buy a phone from a telco here or in jp	06:25
raster	u are only allowed to make telco approved modifications to the software on that phone	06:25
raster	anything else is illegal	06:25
orlok	heheh	06:26
raster	same actually with any transmitting equipment	06:26
orlok	raster: i will keep that in mind	06:26
raster	that includes firmward on wifi cards etc.	06:26
raster	firmware	06:26
wmarone	raster: in Japan, actually, the telcos bluster big but nothing comes of it	06:26
raster	people have actually been put in jail for doing these things in japan i believe	06:26
orlok	raster: i work for a company that makes an ambedded device running linux that does data over GSM	06:26
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raster	wmarone: the law agrees with them :)	06:26
wmarone	plenty of people use N900s and other android devices on Softbank / DoCoMo	06:26
raster	elsewhere in the world its different	06:26
raster	wmarone: japan doesnt network lock	06:27
raster	it simlocks	06:27
wmarone	no they don't	06:27
wmarone	I know	06:27
raster	it doesnt network lock	06:27
raster	korean netowkr locks	06:27
raster	network	06:27
wmarone	well aware of that	06:27
wmarone	I read what you said :)	06:27
wmarone	Japan's got a lot of strange controls on their networks, mostly all enforced by the carriers	06:28
raster	in jp if you go buy a phone that happens to work on their frequencies and the network of your telco - your sim card from the phoneu bought from them shoudl work	06:28
wmarone	yup	06:28
raster	you may have trouble getting keitai mail	06:28
raster	but it will work	06:28
raster	in korea	06:28
raster	u do that and u will end up with a device that has "no network"	06:28
raster	until you go to the telco	06:28
raster	find the right person to talk to	06:28
raster	pay them like a $500 fee to do "testing" of your phone	06:29
wmarone	I was over there back in august, used a data-only sim that cost me $30 for a month of unlimited 3.5G access	06:29
orlok	anybody else have any problems with the N900 loosing connection to the sim?	06:29
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raster	and then they will register your phones imei number as "allowed"	06:29
orlok	or is that just my slightly bent microsim?	06:29
wmarone	orlok: microsim?	06:29
raster	orlok: lots of such devices around :) (linux, embedded, uses gsm for data) :)	06:29
raster	fredrin: south korea is also crazy :)	06:30
orlok	wmarone: ipad style, so its a normal size sim with a chuink missing so you can p[op out the microsim	06:30
wmarone	raster: yeah, sucks that places actually screw people -harder- than they do in the US :/	06:30
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DocScrutinizer51	orlok: yes, there are reports of such problems	06:31
raster	wmarone: well fyi galaxy-s is maybe about 7 months newer, but from a hw point of view - the cpu will come in at about 2-2.5x the performance of the n900, the gpu totally eclipses the n900. it's got quite a chunk more ram - admittedly less sotrage (16gb emmc vs 32gb emmc) and no physical kbd	06:31
orlok	i'm using a bit of paper as a shim	06:31
orlok	it didnt have the problem for weeks	06:31
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raster	the screen - yes its pentile, but frankly.. its much nicer than the n900. the pentile is a downside, but black is pure black, colors are much more vibrant... and its bigger (4" vs 3.5")	06:32
raster	and frankly.. i know DocScrutinizer51 disagrees.. resistive ts... no thanks.	06:32
raster	:)	06:32
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: paper is probably suboptimal solution	06:32
raster	wmarone: yeah. it really pissed me off... but whatever. i'll get around to rooting my galaxy-s some day	06:32
raster	regardless of the laws	06:32
raster	then fix the os	06:33
orlok	DocScrutinizer51: some cellophane then?	06:33
raster	luckily for me.. thats the easiest bit	06:33
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: the concept is odd	06:33
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raster	as i already have proepr linux os images running on the same hw	06:33
wmarone	raster: proper?	06:33
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DocScrutinizer51	orlok: either try to straighten your SIM, or slightly + gently bend out the golden contact springs of holder	06:34
fredrin	jje, nait	06:35
raster	wmarone: not android :)	06:35
DocScrutinizer51	paper wont bend the SIM into shape, but eventually will destruct the flimsy metal holder door	06:35
raster	(kernel, glibc, xorg, dbus, blah blah blah)	06:35
wmarone	ahh	06:35
wmarone	with 3D?	06:35
orlok	DocScrutinizer51: unfortunatly the devices we make here use a slightly different style of holder	06:35
raster	yes	06:35
wmarone	o_O	06:35
wmarone	using what driver?	06:36
raster	a damn side better than the n900 gles drivers	06:36
orlok	DocScrutinizer51: we have rolls of them!	06:36
raster	thats why i moan about them	06:36
raster	as my measuring stick is much better :)	06:36
raster	also sgx - sgx540	06:36
raster	but in-house fixed up drivers	06:36
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wmarone	oh	06:36
raster	so they actually do things right :)	06:36
wmarone	drivers you can't hsare	06:36
wmarone	share*	06:36
raster	yeah	06:36
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: so?	06:36
wmarone	:(	06:36
wmarone	was gonna say, there are people working on MeeGo that would really like to talk to you	06:37
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: couldn't crack the nut with this pound of butter, but you got another 5 metric tons of butter?	06:37
raster	wmarone: i am sure they would :)	06:37
raster	but... not going to happen :(	06:38
wmarone	you work for samsung?	06:38
raster	i do :)	06:38
wmarone	ahh	06:38
wmarone	ha you've probably met some people I work with	06:38
raster	possibly	06:38
wmarone	are you in Gumi?	06:38
raster	tho samsung is a big place	06:38
raster	no	06:38
raster	suwon	06:38
raster	hq	06:38
wmarone	ahh, probably not then	06:38
orlok	DocScrutinizer51:DocScrutinizer51: the SIM is straight as far as i can tell	06:38
orlok	i'll try bending up the fingers	06:39
raster	wmarone: i am in the mobile platform group in suwon. we work on samsungs actual linux platform	06:39
wmarone	ahh	06:39
raster	(as opposed to android, bada, wp7, random featurephones)	06:40
raster	we have a full working debian-based os	06:40
raster	well its not debian-based	06:40
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raster	its a re-implementation of debian	06:40
orlok	.deb based?	06:40
raster	we had-created the whole os just like debian	06:40
raster	yes	06:40
raster	its "pretty much debian"	06:40
raster	same pkg names for most things	06:40
raster	or similar	06:40
orlok	yeah	06:40
orlok	same here for our devices	06:40
raster	but not debian based itself	06:40
raster	this is something we need to fix tho	06:40
raster	it means we are almsot compatible	06:41
raster	but not quite	06:41
raster	a bit of a waste	06:41
raster	anyway	06:41
raster	whats moe fun is - we have a fully productionised os working	06:41
raster	where meego has placeholders	06:41
raster	we have full working complete apps	06:41
wmarone	yes, but no one can use your OS	06:41
raster	where meego seems to launch in 4 seconds	06:41
raster	we launch in 500ms	06:41
orlok	bending the pins seems to have worked	06:41
raster	compositing and drivers all workign pretty solidly	06:42
raster	we are just cleaning up bugs really	06:42
raster	and beating at api's to suck less	06:42
wmarone	and what are you going to do with it?	06:42
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: :-D	06:42
raster	well no one can useit mostly due to some politics of getting it out	06:42
raster	as such io'm allowed to talk about it - it's actually part ofmy job	06:42
raster	:)	06:42
wmarone	welcome to nokia's hole	06:42
raster	the question right now is only how we are going to get it out there	06:42
SpeedEvil	Sell it on ebay.	06:43
raster	hahaha	06:43
raster	well with some ficups in the buildserver being done now we can be sure to be fulyl gpl compliant	06:43
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raster	the goal is to totally play by oss rules and spirit	06:43
raster	we will open source everything we can	06:43
raster	(sgx drivers we can't and 3rd party stuff we can't)	06:44
wmarone	so basically, meego but not meego :)	06:44
raster	pretty much everything gpl/lgpl	06:44
raster	wmarone: yes. but we're already "done" :)	06:44
raster	what we are far behind in is any form of public knowledge that it exists :)	06:44
wmarone	sure	06:44
DocScrutinizer51	well, meego is on 1.1 now	06:45
wmarone	I think that's the big thing though, is it's all been done internally instead of in the open like MeeGo is	06:45
raster	DocScrutinizer51: having looked @ meego - we are actually more like 2.0 or 3.0 if u want to use version # as a measuirng stick :)	06:45
raster	wmarone: yes. and thats bad	06:45
raster	one big problem is changing a whole company and culture	06:46
raster	and that takes time	06:46
raster	but.. the big wigs are on the bandwagon	06:46
DocScrutinizer51	and nobody will love it	06:46
raster	ie extecutves heading this deivision explicitly yell at people to make it open source	06:46
DocScrutinizer51	in community	06:46
raster	just wait a bit	06:47
raster	it will become public soon enough :)	06:47
luke-jr	does it have a name?	06:47
wmarone	I'm confused though, what does Samsung see in it?	06:47
raster	luke-jr: SLP	06:47
luke-jr	wmarone: what does Nokia see in it?	06:48
luke-jr	raster: SLP?	06:48
raster	wmarone: its not android.	06:48
DocScrutinizer51	well, there are other "public" foss distris that people love to hate as they are NIH	06:48
raster	DocScrutinizer51: actually meego is much more nih than SLP	06:48
raster	as such nokia decided to abandon maemo	06:48
wmarone	raster: Ah, higher ups don't like being under google's thumb?	06:48
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raster	and jump onto the meego bandwagon	06:48
raster	i was actually pushing SLP to move to deb	06:48
raster	the reason SLP is deb based is because of my pushing	06:49
raster	wmarone: i can only talk about so much	06:49
raster	:)	06:49
wmarone	hehe	06:49
raster	but as such regardless of what i may have heard or know	06:49
DocScrutinizer51	I don't care about deb	06:49
raster	there is desire AND room for an alternative to android	06:49
luke-jr	raster: does it by any chance have real GPS integration? :P	06:49
raster	see the recent news about european telcos meeting to discuss it	06:49
DocScrutinizer51	but seems a lot of people prefer it over RPM	06:49
raster	them not liking android either	06:50
raster	luke-jr: dunno.. it has gps support	06:50
raster	i dont pay attention to those bits	06:50
raster	DocScrutinizer51: my point is tnhat meego is much more NIH than SLP	06:50
raster	SLP is a nigh debian clone	06:50
SpeedEvil	raster: Can you comment on the size of the orrganisation you're working in? Samsung, or Sparkfun?	06:50
raster	only that the way people do things ended up with it being not quite	06:50
raster	that will be fixed	06:50
orlok	theres no real difference between .deb and .rpm really	06:51
raster	SpeedEvil: ???	06:51
orlok	all the same stuff, different extension	06:51
DocScrutinizer51	raster: aiui it's a clone - yes.	06:51
raster	orlok: they are close. i'd say rpm is by far more packager friendly	06:51
orlok	the real killer was the fact that apt would auto-resolve dependencies	06:51
raster	and it is technically superior imho	06:51
raster	but.. all in all they are close	06:51
SpeedEvil	Yeah. If .01% of actual users care about the package manager, you've _utterly_ fucked up.	06:51
orlok	raster: yeah, i'e built a few RPM's, havent built any /.deb's	06:51
raster	there is apt-rpm too	06:51
raster	so thats kind of moot	06:51
DocScrutinizer51	probably with a licence that allows OEMs to close it down more than even Android	06:52
orlok	raster: yeah, but there wasnt 10+ years ago :)	06:52
raster	orlok: i've doene a fair bit of both (worked at RH in my early years)	06:52
orlok	that i remember, anyway	06:52
orlok	raster: dude, i know :)	06:52
orlok	raster: i was a linux sysadmin in australia in the 90's	06:52
raster	i prefer debian distros	06:52
raster	mostly due to the sheer breadth of stuff already packaged for them	06:52
raster	the apt repos are massive	06:52
orlok	raster: i remember hacking together an old system to try and get E16 or whatever running on it	06:52
raster	rpm is technically nicer	06:53
raster	debian doesnt have rpm -ta. need i say more.	06:53
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* orlok remembers the dependancy nightmares		06:53
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raster	but... be that as it may - SLP is on a debian path. not a meego path	06:53
luke-jr	Gentoo ftw	06:53
wmarone	sounds cool overall	06:53
raster	nokia made a complete left turn and Albuquerque with meego (relative to maemo)	06:53
orlok	who remembers Gentus?	06:53
raster	but we were already on the deb path	06:54
raster	and are not going to join the meego bandwagon	06:54
wmarone	but it all hinges on the hardware, and whether or not I can do what I want :)	06:54
luke-jr	wmarone++	06:54
raster	mostly because meego will proscribe that we must be qt based	06:54
raster	and that is not going to happen.	06:54
orlok	i'm actually running into issues with openbsd's ports	06:55
orlok	first time its happened :-\	06:55
raster	i have no problem in shipping qt packages (unsupported from a 3rd party apt reop - ie just use deb/ubuntu arm repos)	06:55
* luke-jr thumbs-down raster		06:55
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raster	but having all apps, core ui, wm, desktop and all move to qt.. no.	06:56
luke-jr	everything should have been Qt from the start	06:57
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raster	hahahahahhaha	06:57
luke-jr	so it's all just a bugfix	06:57
luke-jr	☺	06:57
SpeedEvil	I'm reminded of OM's perambulations around windowing systems.	06:58
SpeedEvil	Which is not a good thing.	06:58
raster	there's a reason we have 500ms or even better app startup times... one of them is not having a gazillion symbols from c++ to worry about :)	06:58
wmarone	raster: pure GTK?	06:58
raster	wmarone: we do have gtk support	06:58
wmarone	o_O	06:59
raster	but all our apps are EFL based	06:59
luke-jr	raster: never heard of prelinking	06:59
luke-jr	?	06:59
wmarone	ahh, enlightenment	06:59
raster	luke-jr: yes. i have. :) funny that. :) been there. done that. still higher cost than c without prelink :)	06:59
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raster	wmarone: thats hwy i say "proper linux" :)	07:00
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wmarone	close enough for me	07:00
raster	hehehe	07:00
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raster	evas's gl engine has wonderful habits of finding bugs in gl drivers :)	07:00
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DocScrutinizer51	I would be MUCH MORE interested in a proper uniform orthogonal platform indepenent middleware framework - couldn't bother less about GUI details	07:01
raster	DocScrutinizer51: it'll al be gpl/lgpl... so you can happily put it onto your maemo ro meego or whatever device.. if u want	07:02
raster	dont expect us to do it for you :)	07:02
DocScrutinizer51	meh	07:02
DocScrutinizer51	missing the point	07:03
DocScrutinizer51	I don't give a shit about GPL APIs defined in haskell or commented in kanjii	07:04
luke-jr	raster: the 3D driver is GPL/LGPL?	07:04
raster	it's all dbus and/or c	07:04
wmarone	luke-jr: of course not :P	07:04
luke-jr	wmarone: then MEH	07:04
raster	luke-jr: no. out of our hands. talk to imgtec :)	07:04
wmarone	luke-jr: you're gonna be SOL for a long time, seriously	07:05
luke-jr	raster: no it isn't. revive Samsung's own 3D accel.	07:05
luke-jr	wmarone: Samsung's prior generation had open 3D	07:05
raster	luke-jr: out of our hands. thats samsung LSI	07:05
raster	effectively a different company in practice	07:05
raster	they dumped their 3d unit long ago	07:05
raster	it basically is too slow to compete	07:05
luke-jr	slow is better than nothing	07:05
raster	like literally 1/.4 the speed of the n900	07:05
raster	err 1/2	07:06
luke-jr	closed is nothing	07:06
raster	and the n900 (sgx530) is like 1/4 the speed of current gpu's	07:06
raster	open crap is still crap	07:06
wmarone	luke-jr: all or nothing attitudes will get you nothing :P	07:06
raster	thats the reality of it	07:06
luke-jr	if by 'current' you mean 'not really existing in the real world yet' :p	07:06
raster	that gpu is dead	07:06
orlok	Hmm. Did anybody else get a preview clip for the movie "9" on their N900?	07:07
raster	its also controlled by another division entirely	07:07
luke-jr	orlok: yes	07:07
raster	and they have many many many customers	07:07
orlok	luke-jr: I'd never heard of it before!	07:07
wmarone	raster: do you have it running on OMAP4 ?	07:07
raster	most of whom dont care about open or closed	07:07
luke-jr	orlok: me either	07:07
DocScrutinizer51	orlok: s/any/every	07:07
raster	and they cant compete if their gpu isnt at least about as good as everyone else	07:07
orlok	luke-jr: i torrented the full movie heh	07:07
raster	wmarone: no.	07:07
luke-jr	orlok: not what they intended, I'm sure	07:07
wmarone	hmm	07:07
orlok	luke-jr: my GF's a massive burton fan, odd that we'd never heard of it	07:08
wmarone	... now that I think about I realize why not :)	07:08
orlok	actually went to the last day of his exibition here in melbourne a few weeks ago	07:08
raster	wmarone: we focus on samsung SoC's right now.	07:08
wmarone	yeah, that's what occured to me	07:08
raster	as such our current SoC is the same as galaxy-s (hummingbird)	07:08
raster	thats nothing unusual or secret	07:08
raster	whyat an actuall product will ship with is another question entirely	07:09
raster	:)	07:09
wmarone	raster: samsung needs a hummingbirdboard or something :)	07:09
raster	(mayeb same, maybe just a clocked up version, maybe newer soc, maybe omap4.. maybe something else.. who knows)	07:09
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DocScrutinizer51	err huh? samsung SoC got zeroclock now?	07:10
raster	wmarone: http://www.boardcon.com/KIT%20S5PC110%20%28Android%202.1%29.html	07:10
raster	done	07:10
raster	and cheap too	07:10
raster	considering u get what is pretty much the same as a pandora	07:10
raster	just lower res lcd (hvga)	07:10
raster	but why make a board.. when someone did ti already	07:12
raster	over china-ways	07:12
raster	and cheaply	07:13
luke-jr	raster: bad link	07:13
orlok	raster: samsung make their own ARM based chips, correct?	07:13
orlok	Pretty sure thats what our modems use	07:13
raster	and added a whole lcd, capactive touch panel, wifi, accelerometers, battery, and hdmi out to it already	07:13
raster	luke-jr: works for me	07:13
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raster	orlok: yes. s3c* s5pc* good old 2440/2441/2442	07:14
raster	etc.	07:14
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raster	luke-jr: spaces and ()'s in the url	07:14
raster	http://www.boardcon.com/products.html	07:14
raster	liked from there	07:14
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wmarone	o_O	07:15
wmarone	their order link... isn't. It's a blue-colored underline O_o	07:15
wmarone	anyway	07:15
luke-jr	that link is also broken	07:15
SpeedEvil	It's clearly been slashdotted by 800 peps	07:16
raster	yeah	07:16
raster	u actually have to email them	07:16
SpeedEvil	400 peeps	07:16
wmarone	digikey will probably be shipping the pandaboard before long	07:16
raster	they dont actually seem to do credit card orders	07:16
raster	despite what the site says	07:16
raster	u ahve to do a proper order and they issue a proforma invoice	07:16
raster	and u wire xfer etc.	07:16
raster	but u can buy it	07:16
raster	i've asked them about units and pricing	07:17
raster	was looking into a way to make it more accessible to the world	07:17
raster	as people just dont like to do invocies and wire xfers to china	07:17
luke-jr	raster: you are comparing it to pandora or panda?	07:17
wmarone	no, that would make me nervous :)	07:17
wmarone	he said pandora :P	07:17
raster	they want to just enter a cc number, an address and have it turn up at their door a week or 2 or whatever later	07:17
raster	luke-jr: pandora	07:17
raster	luke-jr: as such the s5pc110 is a massively better chip than the omap3x30	07:18
raster	omap4 is netx gen	07:18
raster	next gen	07:18
raster	not out yet as such	07:18
raster	(in products)	07:18
* SpeedEvil doesn't much care.		07:18
SpeedEvil	In many ways.	07:18
raster	but then thats equivalent to the s5pc210	07:18
raster	same gen	07:18
raster	both dual-core cortex-a9	07:18
SpeedEvil	The GPU is quite adequate in n900 for me.	07:18
raster	SpeedEvil: it all depends what u want to do with it	07:19
SpeedEvil	Yes.	07:19
orlok	Wesnoth is ok on the N900	07:19
orlok	screen a bit too small though	07:19
raster	i guess for example	07:20
raster	i can run q3 on the s5pc110	07:20
raster	800x480	07:20
raster	composited (not fullscreen direct to fb)	07:21
DocScrutinizer	all power to the 5GHz SoC phone	07:21
raster	and still get 40-50fps	07:21
DocScrutinizer	:-P	07:21
wmarone	vroom vroom	07:21
SpeedEvil	Or one core can be dedicated solely to running tracker/thumbnailer!	07:21
DocScrutinizer	YESSSS	07:21
DocScrutinizer	or pulseaudio :-P	07:22
raster	just use the lower quality integer resampler	07:23
raster	u wont hear the difference between that an the highq fp one	07:23
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SpeedEvil	It's kinda depressing that a kid in HS implemented - albeit partially - the HW codec speaker protection fitler.	07:24
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DocScrutinizer	yo	07:26
DocScrutinizer	all botches and bandaids, sold to us as hot stuff	07:27
DocScrutinizer	and when you ask for proper -> WONTFIX	07:27
DocScrutinizer	"No we don't open source this, we invented the FFT and the FIR filter, and we want to differentiate" :-/	07:28
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TermanaDesire	Good morning	07:33
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SpeedEvil	are tehere any symbian emus?	07:50
MohammadAG51	no, except the sdk one	07:51
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SpeedEvil	Idly wondering as I'd like to reverse engineer the API my grocery stores app uses	07:52
SpeedEvil	as it might be easier than just raping their website lots.	07:53
SpeedEvil	scraping	07:53
johnx	wow. that's a freudian slip O_o;	07:55
SpeedEvil	It's more a case of it's a keyboard under the covers and me not looking at the screen as I have my eyes closed slip.	08:00
raster	so you're in bed	08:00
raster	hands frantically working away under the covers	08:00
raster	and talking about raping.	08:00
raster	hmmm	08:01
SpeedEvil	Yup.	08:01
raster	waaaaaaaay too much room for innuendo there	08:01
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SpeedEvil	I also have a touch sensitive stick that I play with to control things.	08:01
raster	interesting that that is your... control point	08:02
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orlok	hmm clear skies tonight	08:11
* orlok is tempted to write an app for his phone to act as a telescope controller		08:11
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SpeedEvil	orlok: well - you could just install xephem	08:13
SpeedEvil	I've used it on the n900 IIRC inside easy-debian	08:13
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orlok	SpeedEvil: cool i will check it out	08:14
SpeedEvil	It is very touch-unoptimised	08:14
orlok	SpeedEvil: i need to write the microcontroller - linux interface first though	08:14
SpeedEvil	I need to retry on a clear night my n900 astrophotography eperiments with fcam	08:15
orlok	SpeedEvil: i mean more just something to control positioning/turn tracking on/off	08:15
orlok	SpeedEvil: i've been using a logitech C600 and an eee901	08:15
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orlok	with a telescope, or an EOS40D on the telescope mount, no telescope used though	08:16
SpeedEvil	xephem does 'goto' as I understand it	08:16
orlok	SpeedEvil: i'm converting my mount so i can be completely remotely controlled	08:16
SpeedEvil	Though I have never used it for that.	08:16
SpeedEvil	just used it for locating comets and stuff	08:17
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orlok	ahh	08:17
orlok	i use stellarium, but it doesnt know comets by default i think	08:17
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orlok	SpeedEvil: how are you doing astrophotography with it?	08:17
orlok	long exposures? any sort of tracking?	08:17
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SpeedEvil	Stacking exposures.	08:19
orlok	SpeedEvil: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDoM5q1SWjg	08:19
SpeedEvil	i trued it before, but fcam can do 1s exposures.	08:19
orlok	registax?	08:19
SpeedEvil	no	08:19
orlok	gimp?	08:19
SpeedEvil	netpbm	08:20
orlok	for stacking? hmm, havent looked at that	08:20
SpeedEvil	it's not sensible	08:20
orlok	does it do alignment/registering?	08:20
orlok	heh	08:20
orlok	SpeedEvil: the C600 has a very nice set of controls for exposure, etc	08:20
orlok	i managed to get jupiters red spot	08:20
SpeedEvil	no - it is a simple set of image manipulation tools.	08:21
orlok	i should try and mount the N900 to the scope eyepeice	08:21
orlok	SpeedEvil: if you have a doze PC or wanna fiddle with wine, try registax, its free	08:21
orlok	SpeedEvil: i use guvcview for imaging	08:21
orlok	but probably not relevant to the N900	08:21
orlok	its not a UVC video device, is it?	08:21
SpeedEvil	It's not in a serious attempt to get it working.	08:22
SpeedEvil	And no, thoguh a UVC gadget driver would be lovely	08:22
SpeedEvil	more an effort at getting pigs to fly.	08:22
orlok	SpeedEvil: http://220.233.71.133/20101025/	08:22
orlok	i understand that :)	08:22
SpeedEvil	I also need to get a tracking mount setup for a small green laser, to track ISS.	08:23
orlok	SpeedEvil: will be hard, it moves fast	08:23
SpeedEvil	To see it on nasa-TV as it passes overhead in the external camera shots	08:23
SpeedEvil	:)	08:23
orlok	and the green lasers will piss off any astrophotographers near you	08:24
orlok	ahah :)	08:24
orlok	ok, you probably want to have the laser fixed where the ISS will pass by heh	08:24
SpeedEvil	That's another option, yes	08:24
SpeedEvil	and easier	08:24
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orlok	SpeedEvil: it will be incredibly hard to make a tracking mount fast enough with the correct sort of resolution	08:25
SpeedEvil	I know.	08:25
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orlok	one of the PHD's here made a sat. tracking system at a previous job	08:25
orlok	i've been picking his brains while i modify my mount	08:25
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orlok	somebody said it could not have a second motor added, i've proved them wrong	08:26
SpeedEvil	Is it a v12?	08:26
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SpeedEvil	Sounds like fun. Night.	08:28
RST38h	http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/engadgetpspphone7-1288145212.jpg	08:29
RST38h	photoshop?	08:29
johnx	RST38h, sorry. already read the article :)	08:31
RST38h	hehe	08:31
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johnx	that actually looks pretty hawt	08:32
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TermanaDesire	johnx: as long as you don't mind being arsenic raped by Sony	08:33
orlok	SpeedEvil: v12?	08:33
TermanaDesire	Arse *	08:33
RST38h	[naively] What is arsenic raped?	08:34
RST38h	ah	08:34
RST38h	Termana: don't think of it this way, think of it as your anal adventure (tm)	08:34
raster	some people are into that.	08:36
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johnx	TermanaDesire, there's about a mile of distance between something looking nice and me being willing to spend money on it	08:37
RST38h	But, seriously, Sony is long past the time when it could charge for the brand.	08:37
raster	but tis sony ericsson	08:38
raster	not sony	08:38
johnx	even the playstation name has fallen from the prestige it had at one point	08:39
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raster	so its a scandinavian + japanese frankenstein. :)	08:39
raster	jo i'd say it still has the prestige	08:40
raster	it just has cornered itself in a high end of the market	08:40
raster	where the market moved to be more "cheap mass market"	08:40
* orlok hates sony laptops		08:41
johnx	raster, playstation? I'd say it's been overtaken by 'xbox' for 'hardcore' gamers, and eaten by wii on the other end	08:41
raster	orlok: they are pretty much the only ones that dont look like arse other than app.e	08:41
johnx	sony as a brand? apple killed that.	08:41
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johnx	(note: I'm talking about perception, not some kind of objective comparison)	08:42
orlok	raster: yeah, but the people that insist on buying them for the "shiny" factor also seem to be the sorts to loose the install cd's	08:42
wmarone	speaking of playstation, I still have a pile of games to finish...	08:42
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raster	johnx: dunno - i'd still say that sony is SEEN as the higher end of the market	08:42
orlok	raster: and it makes re-installs a nightmare	08:42
raster	hardcore gamers arent there for higher end	08:42
raster	they are there for hard core games	08:42
orlok	raster: seen as the higher end of the market by people who dont actually know :)	08:42
raster	psp3 pushes to the high end due to things like blueray	08:42
raster	and higher price for nicer design and the features	08:43
* orlok thinks sony cases are generally crap compared to the others		08:43
RST38h	raster: Soneric makes a lot of cheap handsets	08:43
johnx	but bluray players are like $60. it's not the 'value add' it used to be	08:43
raster	RST38h: soney ericsson != sony	08:43
raster	(as i said above)	08:43
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raster	thgey blody well shouldnt have used that name	08:44
raster	it just confuses people	08:44
raster	i've been though many a laptop	08:44
raster	and the sony ones have been the best	08:45
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raster	in design and quality	08:45
orlok	raster: linux on them all though, right?	08:45
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RST38h	raster: And Sony makes stuff like this: http://www.sony.co.uk/product/hfs-cd-music-system/cmt-eh15	08:45
* orlok lokes his eeepc		08:45
RST38h	raster: For something like $100 apiece	08:45
orlok	i prefer a real computer for anything serious	08:46
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orlok	well, real keyboard, real screen, decent speed drive access...	08:46
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raster	orlok: yup. actually i have	08:50
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raster	and everything worked	08:51
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orlok	raster: my core issue with them is no free driver downloads for all the laptops	08:53
orlok	raster: loose the cd and need to reinstall, theres a good chance half your hardware wont work	08:53
orlok	the onyl drivers available from sony are updates	08:53
orlok	and the model numbers, etc are insanely confusing	08:53
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raster	never concerned me	08:54
raster	i didnt bother with windows	08:54
raster	:)	08:54
raster	linux went straight on	08:55
raster	but yes	08:55
raster	model numebrs are confusing	08:55
raster	bnut i have to say it took 10 years for my original sony vaio to die	08:55
orlok	not including battery though	08:55
orlok	most of my laptops the hinges go first	08:55
raster	battery still worked	08:55
raster	:)	08:55
raster	not brilliant	08:55
raster	but still got 30 mins out of it	08:56
orlok	outs dont last 30 seconds, and they are only a few years old	08:56
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orlok	wardriving in a torana will completely stuff laptop hinges	08:56
orlok	i ended up rebuilding a few laptops with gaffa tape and araldyte	08:56
orlok	filled up the corners where the hinges mount with a solid lump of epoxy :)	08:57
raster	the good old pcg 505	08:57
* johnx actually uses linux on a powerbook g4 that someone was down with (hinges are going ...)		08:57
raster	the purple ones back from 1999 or so	08:57
raster	that baby was solid	08:57
raster	and worked well	08:57
raster	my sony x505 happily marches on	08:57
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raster	it sits on my desk as an "embedded-like perfromance testbed" (peitum-m clocked down to 600mhz is pretty much on par to some last gen arms (cortexa8 at about 500-1000mhz)	08:58
orlok	hmm, is anybody using the N900 as a usb host?	08:58
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raster	i've had the x505 now for like.. 5 years or more	08:58
orlok	the only laptops i have bought new are eeepc's	08:59
orlok	i;ve got three heh	08:59
raster	and my current laptop os a 16" vaio fw46	08:59
raster	it works well	08:59
SwedeMike	orlok: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host	08:59
raster	only thing i hate is the radeo gfx	08:59
orlok	one was pretty much incapacitated after i violent incident	08:59
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orlok	an old eee701.. i use it in a robot now	08:59
raster	i've had an asus, clevo, dell, 2 thinkpads along the way	09:00
raster	and sony have been about the best	09:00
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SwedeMike	Sony is a mess to change stuff in, I prefer my Thinkpad X200.	09:00
orlok	i like thinkpads cos they all look the same	09:01
johnx	SwedeMike, got linux on it?	09:01
raster	thinkpads are bicks	09:01
raster	but ugly	09:01
raster	is solid	09:01
raster	but ugly	09:01
orlok	raster: yeah, i have issues with the suits demanding the latest shiny whatever	09:02
orlok	i say give them a black brick and STFU	09:02
raster	thats why i liked sony	09:02
raster	kind of got both	09:02
raster	i will admit apples stuff is these days better than sony	09:02
johnx	orlok, that was my reason too. :D I love the mid-90's look actually. When I get one I think I actually might just go all the way and put bumper stickers all over it	09:02
raster	its about as slick as it gets	09:02
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orlok	raster: yeah, the machining on them is incredible	09:02
raster	sony is - in general, next down on the list of slick	09:03
raster	tho asus is trying hard	09:03
raster	:)	09:03
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orlok	the sony laptops i've spend any amount of time with, the cases just looked like cheap badly bent alloy plate	09:03
raster	hp kind of picked up their game in one of their series	09:03
raster	orlok: may have been the cheap vaios	09:03
raster	the cheapones are actually just oemed off to asus	09:03
raster	:)	09:03
orlok	ahah	09:03
orlok	that may explain it	09:04
raster	so if u are getting a cheap viao - just get an asus	09:04
raster	saves u a few $	09:04
orlok	though i actually like the eee901, plain gloss black finish	09:04
orlok	last of the pure-linux and SSD eee's	09:04
raster	the eee's are ok	09:04
raster	but frankly- netbooks just dont do it for me	09:04
SwedeMike	johnx: yes, ubuntu.	09:04
johnx	SwedeMike, works well? even suspend?	09:05
raster	either give me a real big soldi kbd and real screen (15" or better - 17" preferably)	09:05
raster	or screw it.. i'll just want a smartphone	09:05
raster	then it lives in my pocket nicely	09:05
orlok	yeah, now that i have an N900, i'm thinking the same	09:05
SwedeMike	johnx: yes, I had to do a workaround in 9.04 or 9.10, but after that it works. Don't know if 10.04 and 10.10 works well without it. It's documented in launchpad, but it's been working 100% since then.	09:05
raster	orlok: its a bit crampd .. but the fact that it requrioes no bag/carrier	09:06
raster	and just can lurk in a pocket.. is worth it all	09:06
raster	i suspect the sweetspot for smartphoners is about the 4" screen mark	09:07
raster	5" is probably just over	09:07
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raster	3.5" is on he small side	09:07
raster	so maybe 4l3" is possibly the best middleground	09:07
SwedeMike	yeah, if it's bigger than iphone4, htc desire etc, then it's going to be too big for neatly fitting in the pocket.	09:07
raster	big enough to visibly fit a lot of content	09:07
raster	small enough to still fit in MOSt pockets	09:07
raster	(unless you are a girl with an awesome behind wearing those skintight jeans.. but then u likely cant fit anything in your pockets.. so why bother having any?)	09:08
SwedeMike	though I can still see an additional use for a 7-10" pad for doing some couch/bed surfing on.	09:08
raster	sure	09:08
raster	7-12" or so is "let it sit next to the couch/bed/coffee table for a bit of bigger screen surfing"	09:09
raster	but not portable	09:09
raster	not portable in the smartphone sense	09:09
SwedeMike	exactly.	09:09
xkr47	portable in the NMT450 sense	09:09
SwedeMike	ericsson hotline.	09:09
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andrewfblack	tmo is having a rough night	09:15
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djszapi	from which release does the qtcore module part of the Maemo architecture ? It was shipped already on fremantle if I remember well, I am not sure about Diablo or previous releases.	09:20
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TermanaDesire	raster: I disagree about 4 inch. I personally like 3.5 - it gives me full control of the screen without stretching too much and my n810 was 4.3 and I that was uncomfortable IMO. OTOH I think 3.5 seems to look a little awkward in portrait and 3.7 looks awkward in landscape	09:36
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raster	TermanaDesire: thge n800/810 had a LOT of junk surrounding the screen	09:38
raster	wasted space	09:39
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raster	my galaxy-s is 4"	09:39
raster	and i have to say its about right	09:39
visz	it's not the size of the screen, it's how you utilize it	09:40
TermanaDesire	visz: I see what you did there ;p	09:41
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visz	sorry, i had to =)	09:41
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TiagoTiago	hi	09:51
xkr47	hi	09:52
TiagoTiago	would it be safe to optify /usr/lib/locales ?	09:52
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TiagoTiago	locale*	09:53
kerio	i'd just bindmount / to /home/root/	09:53
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kerio	:3	09:53
kerio	or, rather, the opposite	09:53
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TiagoTiago	i've once again reached zero bytes free on rootfs :(	09:54
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kerio	i've got like 60mb	09:55
kerio	i bet that's why it doesn't let me upgrade to pr1.3	09:55
kerio	:(	09:55
TiagoTiago	:(	09:55
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TiagoTiago	but is it saafe to optify /usr/lib/locale?	09:55
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SwedeMike	I have 75 after upgrade and it went fine.	09:56
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TiagoTiago	and what about /usr/share/locale ?	09:56
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TiagoTiago	anyone?	09:58
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budfive	~pr1.3	10:01
infobot	hmm... pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	10:01
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phellarv	~pr1.4	10:09
infobot	PR1.4 has always been a ban'able subject	10:09
phellarv	;-P	10:10
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RobbieThe1st	~pr1.5	10:11
* infobot beats robbiethe1st with a Nostradamus papercopy 43.8 times. "That's your PR1.5!"		10:11
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crashanddie	morning	10:21
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X-Fade	morning	10:22
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crashanddie	X-Fade, how are the servers holding up to the "OFMG PR1.3"-botnet?	10:29
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X-Fade	Everything in .fi is fine, Reggie's server is quite overloaded.	10:30
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crashanddie	seems to respond well now	10:30
crashanddie	it took quite a beating as I understand it?	10:30
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crashanddie	we didn't even break the usercount record.	10:31
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X-Fade	Yeah, probably because of the engadget article. Driving anonymous users to the site?	10:32
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crashanddie	X-Fade, they still count as "users online" as I understand it	10:33
crashanddie	"Paul, the oracle octopus who shot to fame in the World Cup this summer for his uncanny ability to predict the results of Germany's soccer matches, has died at his home in Oberhausen at the age of two."	10:33
Lynoure	Hmm, I wonder if I can get cruft for N900...	10:34
Lynoure	Seems like just the thing to have, on a device where root partition space is at a premium.	10:35
jacekowski	crashanddie: old news	10:35
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jarkkom	well some things you can always depend on	10:40
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jarkkom	nokia qt sdk updater on windows corrupted the installation again when upgrading to pr1.3 components	10:41
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TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale ?	10:56
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TiagoTiago	anyone?	10:57
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SchorschlV6	what the hell is wrong with my n900 :D	10:59
SchorschlV6	> 1008 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.	10:59
SchorschlV6	> Need to get 84,1MB of archives.	10:59
SchorschlV6	this can't be true :D	10:59
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ieatlint	SchorschlV6: that would be pr1.3 update	11:05
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SchorschlV6	ieatlint: how long is pr1.3 released?	11:07
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peb	~pr1.3	11:08
infobot	well, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	11:08
peb	SchorschlV6 ... hey, the infobot still works :-)	11:08
SchorschlV6	uh nice, didn't notice that	11:09
SchorschlV6	hope the mediaplayer bt stream bug is fixed^^	11:09
peb	SchorschlV6 ... don't know, AFAIK there are no (zero) releasenotes	11:10
ieatlint	there are release notes	11:10
ieatlint	they're in infobot's message that you just requested (see the url with "releae notes" in it)	11:10
peb	ieatlint --> ok, so i'm proven wrong on my knowledge. sorry 4 that, but good to know	11:11
ieatlint	and it fixes a bluetooth bug where it continued to play dead audio to bt devices after audio playback had actually stopped	11:11
SchorschlV6	jep, i have the notes here... this was just a hope before reading :D	11:11
TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale?	11:11
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ieatlint	SchorschlV6: if the bluetooth bug you mean is bug #9640 .. it's fixed	11:18
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9640 Huge battery drain because BT-headset sound is not stopped	11:18
maybeArgh	ooh	11:18
maybeArgh	that preenv stuff looks nice	11:18
TiagoTiago	i haven't managed to try it yet, ran out of space on rootfs while installing one of those libgles that a game would need and have been trying to free up space ever since (been at it for at least a few hours already :(	11:20
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TiagoTiago	one of those libgles things*	11:21
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maybeArgh	very stupid question: where would i get pre games? is there any way to buy & download them without actually owning a pre?	11:22
ilius	when updating package "maemo" , i have no enough space (87 MB) in rootfs (the is 85 MB available), i think that needing space is temporary! is it ok if I map /tmp to another storage and update?	11:22
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TiagoTiago	i'm not even close to having so much space avaiable :(	11:23
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TiagoTiago	which brings me back to my question: is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale?	11:24
peb	?: what terminal are you using when on the N900 (for doing stuff on maemo on the cli?)	11:25
TiagoTiago	me?	11:25
peb	yes ... I'm in xterm and missing a couple of files / the SD card ..	11:26
TiagoTiago	i use the one that comes with the N900	11:26
TiagoTiago	i don't have a SD card	11:27
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TiagoTiago	but i can do cd / just fine	11:27
SwedeMike	google latitude on the n900, I don't want to use the browser based version to update my location (uses too much cpu/battery), what are my other options? I'd prefer not to enable devel	11:28
peb	TiagoTiag, ok, then I have a understanding problem, perhaps you can help. what are the device names for the N900 and the SD? /dev/mmc1 (should be N900) /dev/mmc2 should be the SD, right?	11:28
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TiagoTiago	i dunno, lemme check what is present on mine	11:28
Jucato	SD card is /dev/mmcblk1p1 mounted at /media/mmc1	11:30
SchorschlV6	hmh i shouldn't upgrade... 3 month uptime :D	11:30
TiagoTiago	mmcblk0 mmcblk0p1 mmcblk0p2 mmcblk0p3	11:30
Jucato	/dev/mmcblk0p2 is /home	11:30
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TiagoTiago	/dev $ ls mm*	11:30
Jucato	/dev/mmcblk0p1 is ~/MyDocs	11:31
TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale?	11:31
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TiagoTiago	i'm starting to worry i might need to reflash again if i can't figure out how to get the free space in rootfs back to more manageable levels soon :(	11:33
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alterego	~flashing	11:35
infobot	hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	11:35
ShadowJK	my n900 is back from repairs \o/	11:35
\|187\|	3 months SchorschlV6 ? never ran out of bat? :O	11:35
alterego	woo! :D	11:35
\|187\|	thats like impossible for me	11:35
TiagoTiago	I really am not in the mood to reinstall so many programs all over again (last few times i tried batch installing a bunch of programs at once things went bad easilly, i have to install oat most only a few at time, then manujally optify some stuff etc and then repeat)	11:36
ShadowJK	they slapped a crummy screen protector ontop of the old one, and the battery is stone dead so i cant even boot to see if it's repaired	11:36
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alterego	Urgh	11:36
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TiagoTiago	:(	11:36
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\|187\|	ShadowJK: no replacement bat ?	11:37
SchorschlV6	\|187\| : i have a charger at home, in my office, in my car, and a mobile battery charger :D	11:37
\|187\|	ordered a cheap one for that purpose for about 5pounds or so	11:37
ShadowJK	ah, a few minutes of dc-10 car charger and it booted	11:37
TiagoTiago	at least there is a good thing waiting me next time i do a total reflash, i'll keep the original rootfs untouched and will use a copy of it in the internal big memory so i'll never run out of space so easilly	11:38
SchorschlV6	hope the update over air works this time	11:39
alterego	heh	11:39
TiagoTiago	good luck	11:39
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chem\|st	moaning	11:40
SchorschlV6	got 1101 packages^^ lets see what happen now	11:40
* TiagoTiago starts to wonder how safe it would be to stick the stylus up his nostril all the way in......		11:40
chem\|st	SchorschlV6: dont apt-get distupgrade	11:41
SchorschlV6	why i shouldn't do that?	11:42
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TiagoTiago	might hurt your smelling cells?	11:42
ShadowJK	mm, freshly flashed n900, 101.5M free on /	11:44
TiagoTiago	yummy	11:44
auenf	that beats my 60mb	11:46
auenf	altho i havent flashed since i got it...	11:46
SchorschlV6	auenf: you use pr1.1 ?	11:48
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auenf	1.2	11:48
auenf	will throw 1.3 on after this weekend sometime	11:48
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TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale?	11:50
RST38h	ShadowJK: What do you do to keep it that clean?	11:51
RST38h	Never had more than 70MB free	11:51
SchorschlV6	RST38h: you can link /var/cache/apt to the second partition	11:52
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SchorschlV6	upgrade done^^ letz reboot	12:00
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TiagoTiago	how can i find out myself whether it is safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/share/locale, other than trying it and seeing if it fucks up the device?	12:01
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qhubekela	~pr1.3	12:01
infobot	i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	12:01
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Oli```	Could somebody tell me what their repository settings are for the default catalogues (Nokia Applications and Nokia System Software Updates) please?	12:06
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SchorschlV6	upgrade over air seems to be done successfully	12:10
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_trine	whats the difference between the USA PR 1.3 and any UK one that might be released	12:11
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ZogG	_trine go with global	12:14
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_trine	is there any difference you know of between the different firmwares	12:15
TiagoTiago	I did apt-get install libgles-sgx-img cause it said it ould be needed to play Pre's Need for Speed Undercover, but there wasm't enough space left on rootfs and it didn't got all they way thru, i tried clearing up some space and trying tol install again, bad idea, now i can't find what else to optfify and dthere is no space for dpkg to run and its all messy :(	12:16
xkr47	:(	12:17
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SchorschlV6	TiagoTiago: link /var/cache/apt to /home/user/MyDocs/apt	12:18
_trine	is there a link to do the upgrade OTA	12:18
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SchorschlV6	~pr1.3	12:18
infobot	i guess pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	12:18
TiagoTiago	it would be better if this automated reply was sent privatly...	12:19
SchorschlV6	true	12:19
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TiagoTiago	that folder is already optified	12:21
SchorschlV6	with the new kernel it's pretty fast now	12:21
TiagoTiago	dpkg: unable to open/create status database lockfile: No space left on device	12:22
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SchorschlV6	you can try apt-get clean	12:22
TiagoTiago	still not enough free space	12:23
SchorschlV6	outsch	12:23
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Jenna	~pr1.3	12:26
infobot	pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	12:26
phryk	~pr1.3	12:26
phryk	oh	12:26
TiagoTiago	lol	12:26
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phryk	mh	12:26
phryk	nothing i need in that text…	12:26
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phryk	I still don't know how to get root on 1.3… have rootsh installed but sudo gainroot asks me for a pass, and I can't find it. also can't change the user-pw with passwd :/	12:27
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ZogG	phryk just type root	12:30
TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify /usr/lib/locale and /usr/lib/locale?	12:30
SchorschlV6	phryk : have you ssh-server installed?	12:31
becks	what is the difference between nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0 and nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/203 ?	12:31
becks	i have 203, and a friend mr0	12:31
TiagoTiago	or how can i find the answer other than by trying and risking messing things even more?	12:31
ZogG	the version i think	12:32
ZogG	i mean global uk us and so on	12:32
ZogG	TiagoTiago wait for someone who did it to ask	12:32
TiagoTiago	:(	12:32
phryk	SchorschlV6: yes	12:32
phryk	oh mom	12:32
phryk	just assumed it didn't get started	12:33
phryk	nice it's running	12:33
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Jenna	~flashing	12:34
infobot	flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	12:34
lcuk	TiagoTiago, backup and find out. how were you planning on optifying it?	12:34
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SchorschlV6	phryk: you can chmod 4555 /bin/su then you can easy use su to become root	12:34
TiagoTiago	copy to /opt, delete the original, then symlinl the copy back to the original location (would do oit with Midinight Commander)	12:35
TiagoTiago	symlink*	12:35
Almehdi	wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Move_apt_cache_outside_of_rootfs	12:35
phryk	SchorschlV6: i know	12:36
TiagoTiago	i think that one is already optified here	12:36
phryk	SchorschlV6: you did mean +s right?^^	12:36
phryk	at least i did that, just like the last time :]	12:36
phryk	now i can get rid of rootsh :)	12:36
phryk	SchorschlV6: thanks a bunch for pointing out the obvious ^^;	12:36
TiagoTiago	why you want to get rid of rootsh?	12:37
phryk	less risk	12:37
TiagoTiago	heh	12:37
phryk	i can't change the darn pw for user, it is very possibly some weak standard pw documented somewhere	12:37
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ZogG	phryk risk of dinosaurs take your phone and use root?	12:38
TiagoTiago	usually it helps me fix things when they get broken by other means	12:38
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phryk	I also am searching for a way to force a pw-prompt before installing packages, haven't found anything yet :/	12:38
phryk	ZogG: something like that	12:38
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Almehdi	rootsh makes you own the dedvicde... without it the device will own you ;)	12:38
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ZogG	phryk oh, i would give my n900 to see alive dinosaur	12:39
phryk	Almehdi: You know that there is still su?	12:39
Almehdi	sure	12:39
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phryk	Almehdi: so why keep rootsh?	12:39
dneary	Hi	12:39
Almehdi	easier	12:39
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phryk	than su?	12:39
phryk	o_O	12:40
phryk	it doesn't get much easier than 2 letters and a password-prompt…	12:40
dneary	I'm testing out some sample code in some of the tutorials & developer guides	12:40
ZogG	su is not working i thin	12:40
Almehdi	hmm.. havent really thought about it	12:40
phryk	oh it is	12:40
phryk	trust me, i just used it	12:40
TiagoTiago	i thought there wasn't su and sudo on the N900 without it.....	12:40
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dneary	Specifically, I am up to this: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API#OssoABookContactView	12:40
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dneary	The code compiles just fine, but fails in SB	12:41
dneary	Core dump.	12:41
dneary	With errors in gtkrc	12:41
dneary	[sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~/src/maemoexamples/maemo-examples] > ./example_abook2	12:41
dneary	/usr/share/libosso-abook/gtkrc.libosso-abook:33: Invalid symbolic color 'SecondaryTextColor'	12:41
dneary	/usr/share/libosso-abook/gtkrc.libosso-abook:33: error: invalid identifier `SecondaryTextColor', expected valid identifier	12:41
dneary	Segmentation fault (core dumped)	12:41
ZogG	dneary your lost	12:41
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dneary	ZogG, I'm afraid I don't understand	12:41
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phryk	dneary: there is a devel channel for that	12:42
TiagoTiago	HAM crashes when i open it :/	12:42
dneary	gdb also dumps core when loading the core file	12:42
lcuk	TiagoTiago, well, its not the same as full confirmation, but I have /usr/lib/locale optified now	12:42
phryk	i think #maemo-devel (would make sense)	12:42
lcuk	10mb saved	12:42
ZogG	phryk i think he knows better =)	12:42
dneary	phryk, Really? I have always believed this was the dev channel	12:42
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phryk	dneary: https://wiki.maemo.org/IRC <-- #maemo-devel seems abour right^^	12:43
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TiagoTiago	would you mind also trying on /usr/share/locale, and then rebooting to see if it won't mess things up?	12:43
ZogG	dneary have you read of my proposal in community	12:43
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dneary	ZogG, Jog my memory, please? Your proposal about what, and what's your real name?	12:44
granden	Anyone who knows where haze stores the buddy icons?	12:45
TiagoTiago	lcuk, would you mind also trying on /usr/share/locale, and then rebooting to see if it won't mess things up?	12:45
dneary	ZogG, I don't commit IRC nicks to memory much :)	12:45
ZogG	dneary, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63158	12:45
dneary	ZogG, Ah - I assumed you meant maemo-community@maemo.org	12:45
ZogG	dneary i meant proposal for community	12:46
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dneary	ZogG, Nice idea	12:46
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dneary	I would favour sending everyone to one place - preferably transifex - and have translators collaborate	12:47
dneary	Rather than try to adapt Garage, which wasn't really built for the use-case you propose	12:47
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ZogG	dneary it's a mess their as one person in charge for teams and not always grant request	12:48
dneary	But the idea of having users guided to l10ns of apps is a good one	12:48
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ZogG	dneary i'm using english on device but i know russian and little bit hebrew	12:49
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ZogG	so i would like to contribute at least translations	12:49
phryk	maemo made me rediscover bassdrive	12:50
phryk	just plain awesome to sit in the bus/train and listen to one of the best dnb streams available :)	12:51
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* ZogG xmms2> Speech Debelle - Daddy's Little Girl ["Speech Therapy" 2009]		12:56
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ZogG	phryk, ^	12:56
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phryk	that dnb? don't know that artist…	12:56
phryk	Always open for recommendations :)	12:57
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phryk	@ ZogG	12:58
TiagoTiago	well, gonna try rebooting with locale optified	12:59
TiagoTiago	cya (i hope)	13:00
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dneary	timeless*: Allo allo?	13:02
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timeless_mbp	hi	13:02
timeless_mbp	what can i do for you?	13:02
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dneary	timeless_mbp, I hear you know the l10n set-up pretty well	13:02
phryk	btw: is there a generic tabulator keycombo?	13:02
timeless_mbp	for which project?	13:03
phryk	i only found one for the osso-xterm… need it in xchat as well	13:03
timeless_mbp	but yeah, in general i can probably help	13:03
merlin_phone	hey anyone else has the weird bug with the initial browser page (bookmarklist) that it snaps back to the first item if you scroll further than the last item?	13:03
dneary	I would like to know how to go from a string like addr_ap_address_book in a desktop file to a plain string like "Contacts"	13:03
dneary	I have not found any good docs on it	13:03
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dneary	I understand that X-Text-Domain=osso-addressbook is used to refer to where the translations are kept	13:04
timeless_mbp	yep	13:04
dneary	So I did a "locate osso-addressbook" in sb, but it didn't show anything	13:04
timeless_mbp	um	13:05
timeless_mbp	that's unlikely to do the right thing	13:05
dneary	(because locate doesn't work in sb for me)	13:05
timeless_mbp	try installing my pr1.2 package	13:05
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dneary	which one?	13:05
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lardman	morning	13:05
timeless_mbp	well, you have a choice of en-US or en-GB	13:05
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timeless_mbp	as long as you install the one your scratchbox is using you should be happy	13:06
dneary	timeless_mbp, I'm going to need a URL or something	13:06
dneary	I don't know what "my pr1.2 package" might be	13:06
timeless_mbp	i think it's in /query	13:06
dneary	Are you talking about a package that replaces locate?	13:07
dneary	Not anything to do with translations, right?	13:07
dneary	I'm a little lost	13:08
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andre_41	dneary: timeless talks about timeless' private (better) translations	13:09
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timeless_mbp	well, they aren't updated for 1.3, i should try to do that today	13:10
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dneary	andre_41, Ah	13:11
dneary	Where I was looking for information about how translations work	13:11
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dneary	andre_41, Thanks for the illumination	13:12
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dneary	lunch...	13:12
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dneary	No PR 1.3 update in SB SDK yet... is that right? Or do I have to update repos?	13:12
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timeless_mbp	dneary: anyway, for testing purposes you want a decent (i.e. nearly complete) set of strings	13:16
timeless_mbp	the sdk generally doesn't help there	13:16
timeless_mbp	as long as you don't need pr1.3 strings, using mine should be "good enough" for testing	13:16
* timeless_mbp is trying to avoid opening XTerminal to check a .desktop file		13:16
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* timeless_mbp is also trying to poke mercurial		13:16
dneary	timeless_mbp, Does Maemo use gettext?	13:17
timeless_mbp	yes	13:17
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dneary	timeless_mbp, I've never seen a "text domain" before in gettext	13:17
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timeless_mbp	man 3 dgettext	13:18
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dneary	timeless_mbp, So where are the .po files for official apps?	13:19
timeless_mbp	install my package ;-)	13:20
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dneary	Or are only the .mo files shipped?	13:20
timeless_mbp	only mo's are shipped	13:20
dneary	Bummer	13:20
timeless_mbp	but my package lets you deal w/ that	13:20
timeless_mbp	it gives you a ui to review .mo files	13:20
dneary	So there's no way to find out, as a user, which .desktop file corresponds to the "Contacts" application?	13:20
timeless_mbp	install my package	13:21
dneary	(noting that in osso-addressbook, there is no occurrence of the "Contacts" string	13:21
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timeless_mbp	i'll give you steps :)	13:21
ruskie	contacts is osso-addressbook iirc	13:21
timeless_mbp	1. install my package	13:21
timeless_mbp	2. open settings	13:21
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timeless_mbp	3. open american english	13:21
timeless_mbp	4. select advanced options	13:21
dneary	ruskie, Yes, I did notice that :)	13:21
timeless_mbp	5. select the locale you're using and one tiny locale	13:21
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dneary	Should the web browser work inside Scratchbox?	13:22
dneary	I'm starting to think that I missed a step to getting a usable SDK	13:22
timeless_mbp	e.g. en_US.2 and eo	13:22
dneary	Browser doesn't launch	13:22
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timeless_mbp	6. select "Lookup identifier"	13:22
dneary	(so I'm stuck at step 1)	13:22
* ruskie tries to see if he can survive an upgrade without needing to reflash...		13:22
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dneary	Is there a way to manually, locally install from a .install file?	13:23
timeless_mbp	dneary: yeah	13:23
timeless_mbp	you can just read the .install file	13:23
timeless_mbp	it's a human readable format	13:23
timeless_mbp	in theory you can probably try launching the .install file w/ ham, that should work	13:23
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timeless_mbp	anyway, in theory that should work, for some reason lookup identifier seems to be fighting me	13:24
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timeless_mbp	but Search within translations works	13:24
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ruskie	hmm how soon does apt usually report a dependency conflict?	13:25
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timeless_mbp	"can't install"	13:26
timeless_mbp	see log :)	13:26
ruskie	fun	13:26
timeless_mbp	nah, it probably says something, i'm too lazy to check	13:26
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ruskie	I'm checking through ham right now... supposed to list stuff under problems for the update	13:27
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andrewfblack	am I the only person that when you work an hour on a wiki entry and then someone comes back and changes the format or look for it, you get pissed off	13:34
andrewfblack	I've never been able to community enough to like wikis	13:34
kerio	huh? why?	13:35
andrewfblack	I know I shouldn't in fact sometimes it looks better just drives me crasy still lol	13:35
kerio	you're weird	13:35
SpeedEvil	The correct action in that case is always the same.	13:35
Chani	yes, wikis fail at merging.	13:35
kerio	that's the point of wikis	13:35
SpeedEvil	Drive to their house, and bury them under a patio.	13:35
kerio	Chani: no, he's pissed that other people change what he wrote	13:35
Chani	andrewfblack: it would help if you didn't spend an hour working on it without committing :)	13:36
Chani	oh	13:36
Chani	n/m then	13:36
Chani	my usual issue is edit conflicts	13:36
kerio	Chani: especially in wikis, commit early, commit often	13:36
ruskie	or use something like ikiwiki	13:37
andrewfblack	sometimes it reminds me of being in school and your english teacher says you need a . here and a space here. Then again I'm working night shift and get someone pissy for no reason	13:37
kerio	andrewfblack: please get out of the internet then	13:37
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kerio	it's for the best of both	13:37
andrewfblack	kerio: lol but its my internet	13:37
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kerio	it's not your internet	13:38
kerio	unless it's a wiki on your lan	13:38
SpeedEvil	Fork the wiki. :)	13:38
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kerio	ooh, idea for mediawiki	13:39
kerio	branches for each edit	13:39
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ruskie	yay... I can haz all the music I want from ovi music store with pr1.3... to bad it's still not available in my country...	13:39
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ruskie	I'll stick to buying the few CDs that really interest me and skipping all the other junk	13:40
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* SpeedEvil wonders how close you have to zoom in with the camera to pick up the grooves on a CD.		13:41
RobbieThe1st	More than most camera's can handle?	13:41
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SpeedEvil	Indeed.	13:42
SpeedEvil	I think ~.5mm square image would comfortably reveal the grooves	13:43
lcuk	SpeedEvil, the laser tracking for a cd - i recall an analogy of flying a supersonic jet over the central reservation of a motorway and tracking position within 1inch of the barrier	13:43
SpeedEvil	I know.	13:43
lcuk	isn't technology awesome	13:43
SpeedEvil	I know way too much about the encoding of CDs.	13:43
lcuk	SpeedEvil, easier method for picking up the contents of a cd	13:44
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lcuk	take a photo of the label, ocr it then buy it and download contents from digital media store :P	13:44
kerio	i'd love a program like that for the n900	13:44
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: You're missing the point!	13:45
SpeedEvil	:)	13:45
kerio	photograph the cd label, it finds the album name and starts downloading it from what.cd	13:45
lcuk	:D	13:45
SpeedEvil	I want a barcode reader -> product ID map	13:45
SpeedEvil	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/26/tesco_iphone/	13:45
SpeedEvil	Like that - sort-of	13:45
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SpeedEvil	you take pics of the barcode, and it adds it to your list.	13:46
kerio	yeah, i want an application that takes a pic of the barcode and adds it to my transmission-daemon	13:46
SpeedEvil	Can transmission handle cans of beans?	13:47
kerio	if it could, it would be awesome	13:47
nid0	if it can, im looking forward to downloading a new car	13:47
kerio	"What are you doing?" "I'm downloading some bacon"	13:47
kerio	nid0: YOU WOULDN'T DOWNLOAD A CAR	13:48
lcuk	kerio, I already have bacon supplies on my 900	13:48
nid0	too goddamn right i would :(	13:48
lcuk	open keyboard, add rasher, slide keyboard back in and run some intensive grilling process	13:49
kerio	lcuk: never enuff bacon	13:49
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kerio	nid0: http://img.chan4chan.com/img/2009-03-16/1237240452958.jpg	13:49
kerio	nid0: also http://turbo.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2010/07/download-a-bear.png	13:49
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nid0	maybe ill just go back to shooting policemen to steal their helmets	13:50
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jave	hello	14:04
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jave	I'm having trouble upgrading to the latest pushed maemo release on my n900, I'm just wondering if its a) worth the trouble and b) how to do it if my pc uite doesnt work?	14:05
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jave	is there a changelog somewhere?	14:05
chem\|st	jave: hi	14:07
chem\|st	jave: no changelog	14:07
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Scelt	~pr.13	14:07
Scelt	~pr1.3	14:07
infobot	methinks pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	14:07
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jave	Thanks	14:08
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chem\|st	jave: the appmanager should tell you on the details page of the package which package has conflicts with the upgrade	14:08
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jave	well, I followed the on-screen instructions, but failed thoroughly	14:08
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chem\|st	jave: you mean pc-suite?	14:09
jave	yes	14:09
chem\|st	jave: just dont	14:09
andre_41	jave, there is a link to fixed public bugs at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.3	14:09
chem\|st	jave: grab your phone and open the application manager pls	14:09
jave	ok	14:10
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chem\|st	jave: go to updates and tap the maemo5 one	14:10
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chem\|st	there you should find details and at the install tab you should see either libqt4-test or libgles1-sgx-img is conflicting	14:11
jave	its very slow, but I'm doing it	14:11
chem\|st	jave: np	14:11
jave	ive done this previously but never got to a conflict screen	14:12
chem\|st	jave: it is one of your installed packages using one or both of these libraries	14:12
chem\|st	it should be the "installs" screen	14:12
jave	now it says "please connect pc suite" (but in swedish)	14:12
chem\|st	any buttons or tabs?	14:13
jave	it wants to make a backup copy it seems	14:13
jave	and ive already made one previously	14:13
chem\|st	jave: do you have any 3D games installed?	14:14
jave	no	14:14
chem\|st	healtcheck?	14:14
jave	hmm what is that?	14:14
* alterego thinks mad-developer should add /opt/usr/lib to /etc/ld.so.conf		14:14
jave	ok, so now I make a new backup anyway	14:15
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chem\|st	why?	14:15
jave	well it asked me to	14:15
jave	I cant seem to get by the "make backup copy" stage of the upgrade	14:15
pexi	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGLj8_S2WgA	14:15
jave	argh	14:16
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jave	ah! now I find an info screen which says conflict with libgles1	14:18
jave	so I should remove that pkg?	14:18
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nid0	youll also need to remove whatever requires it, itll be a game almost certainly	14:21
nid0	if you apt-get remove libgles1* itll tell you what packages depend on it	14:21
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nid0	you can simply reinstall it after upgrading though	14:22
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jave	yes I'm doing that now. seems there was a 3d game after all.	14:23
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jave	my fault for just asuming the "info" screens containd nothing...	14:25
chem\|st	jave: hehe	14:25
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tobis87	Hi, Anyone else noticed that Pr1.3 changed the way swap works? I noticed a lot of "zero pages" with rzscontrol from compcache. But I have no idea, what this actually does: http://pastebin.com/iJYM4sR5	14:26
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jave	chem\|st: so this is the last update to freemantle=	14:27
jave	?	14:27
FIQ\|n900	the game, everyone	14:27
FIQ\|n900	:D	14:27
FIQ\|n900	...i lost	14:28
chem\|st	jave: it is probably but I wont bet on it as there are still bugfixes on its way	14:28
jave	I'm kind of out of the loop. will there be a meego release for n900 or do I need to get a new device?	14:30
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psycho_oreos	there is already a release for meego on n900	14:30
nid0	there is and will be a mostly working-as-well-as-possible unofficial release	14:30
jave	coolness	14:30
psycho_oreos	its not stable release the last I heard but its still getting worked on	14:30
nid0	there wont be a nokia supported or branded official one with any nokia software on it	14:31
LjL	what about Harmattan, is that going to exist for N900?	14:31
nid0	the chance of the n900 having a nokia supported and supplied new os is probably around 0	14:32
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jave	well I can get a new device np	14:32
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psycho_oreos	don't know and don't think that harmattan is being worked on officially, it maybe is just another stillborn project	14:32
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FIQ\|n900	there's no harmattan anymore	14:33
X-Fade	Words to note there ^^ "don't think" ;)	14:33
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psycho_oreos	much like mer I suppose, partial release and it became quiet I suppose	14:33
nid0	not really	14:33
LjL	no harmattan anymore? but i think just a few days ago here people were discussing whether Harmattan would be officially called MeeGo or Maemo	14:33
psycho_oreos	X-Fade, words of doubt to mark in case there's objections :)	14:34
nid0	the supposed plan has always been that harmattan is what will be on nokia's next tablet device, and it will just be branded as "an instance of meego"	14:34
FIQ\|n900	i've heard the opposite all the time when meego went official	14:34
nid0	with qt support but the debian base still intact	14:34
FIQ\|n900	hm, k	14:34
psycho_oreos	I've pretty much more or less the same when meego was announced, it just seems like nokia has pretty much lost interest peddling their own maemo series	14:35
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tobis87	Mece: Do you have libhildonfm compiled with your patch, http://pastebin.com/R77d7yJQ against Pr1.3?	14:40
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FIQ\|n900	Ok, why is the update taking ages?	14:41
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FIQ\|n900	I started it for 1h and 20 mins ago with full battery	14:41
FIQ\|n900	And now i've 20%	14:41
nid0	because theres like 1,000 packages to update and its a tiny weeny little slow processor	14:41
FIQ\|n900	It took faster last time	14:42
FIQ\|n900	but fine then	14:42
psycho_oreos	you could always get the image and flash it lol	14:42
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FIQ\|n900	the progress atm is osso-backup lol	14:43
FIQ\|n900	slow :<	14:43
FIQ\|n900	whatever	14:43
FIQ\|n900	Yeah, i know	14:43
FIQ\|n900	but i'm lazy	14:43
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Termana	LjL, since no one answered your question directly, there is a possibility that Harmattan will be available for the N900, just not from Nokia themselves (Harmattan Hacker's Edition). The other thing is that the hardfp version of 1.2 MeeGo for the N900 should have binary compatibility with Harmattan as well	14:44
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FIQ\|n900	now, tha update is at osso-dsm. :P	14:56
FIQ\|n900	could be 'liiiiittle' faster	14:56
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TiagoTiago	I've just started upgrading to pr1.3 via Synaptic.....how bad of a mistake was that?	14:59
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Termana	TiagoTiago, first let me ask you something	15:01
Termana	How silly do you THINK it was?	15:01
FIQ\|n900	wait, what	15:02
TiagoTiago	Considering i stayed up all night instead of sleeping, i'm guessing it wasn't just a little	15:02
FIQ\|n900	does synaptic even exist for maemo?	15:02
TiagoTiago	Yep, i can even see the OVI store free repo in there :P	15:02
TiagoTiago	I think it became avaiable after i installed EasyDebian	15:03
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Termana	TiagoTiago, ok, so at least we agree - it was silly.	15:03
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Termana	TiagoTiago, I think it's a bad thing to do, and apparently the topic thinks so too. But I think you just need to resolve upgrade conflicts, if you know how to do that you should be fine	15:04
TiagoTiago	I guess lack of sleep shook the balance of chemicals in my brain to make me be a bit more reckless than usual	15:04
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dolppp	alteregoooo :D	15:05
TiagoTiago	Somtimes it feels like i get high on lack of sleep....(it probably kills a similar amount of neurons as many other ways to get high)	15:06
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TiagoTiago	(also probably does some damage on the immune systems)	15:08
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crashanddie	and it also damages our "we don't give a fuck"	15:10
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Termana	:p	15:11
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dneary	Yay! https://bugs.maemo.org/7107	15:18
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BCMM	i'm starting to wonder if i might've updated to pr1.3 without noticing at some point; how can i check my version?	15:22
FIQ	Settings, about the product	15:22
psycho_oreos	probably under about device in settings	15:22
psycho_oreos	bleh	15:22
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FIQ	firmware revision is supposed to be 20.2010.36.1 (maybe i failed at some point, but it should be something like that)	15:23
BCMM	mine is 10.2010 something, so that's 1.2 i guess	15:23
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BCMM	so am i doing something wrong? i still don't have an update to install	15:24
FIQ	yeah, 10.2010 is the old one	15:24
FIQ	(or well, 10.2010.(...))	15:24
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psycho_oreos	10.2010.19-1	15:25
BCMM	i've even got an update for "tweak flash plugin version" waiting that won't install because i don't have 1.3	15:25
BCMM	is it normal to not be seeing the update at this point? (i'm in the UK)	15:26
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MohammadAG51	yes, you're in the UK :P	15:26
psycho_oreos	I believe the package is named as maemo5 or something like that.. or you can issue apt-get dist-upgrade from the console	15:26
BCMM	psycho_oreos: the /topic says not to do that	15:27
BCMM	with an all-caps "DO NOT" and all	15:27
BCMM	is it possible that something is blocking it? would HAM say something if that was the case?	15:28
FIQ	Maemo 5	15:28
dsg	~pr1.3	15:28
FIQ	is the name of FW updates in package manager	15:28
infobot	pr1.3 is probably the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/10/25/new-nokia-n900-software-update-available/ -- see ~flashing for how to update, or http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/Maemo_5_SDK_Release_Notes_v1_7_en.txt, or http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-26.log.html#t2010-10-26T03:02:54	15:28
psycho_oreos	BCMM, bah my bad, though the package should be visible normally afaik	15:28
achipa	DO.. NOT.. INSTALL..	15:28
BCMM	achipa: do not install what?	15:28
FIQ	By the way... you're not the only one that don't see it in the package manager	15:28
achipa	BCMM: there is nothing new in that version there for PR1.2 users	15:28
FIQ	Some guy at planet maemo, and myself, didn't do eihter (but i just did it with the terminal)	15:29
achipa	BCMM: FOR THWEAKFLASHVER	15:29
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achipa	damn caps...	15:29
BCMM	achipa: it's OK, i can't install it	15:29
FIQ	So, try wait if you want, or use USB	15:29
FIQ	flashing	15:29
BCMM	it's always safe to do apt-get update/apt-get upgrade on maemo, right?	15:29
FIQ	update is np, i dunno about upgrade or dist-upgrade	15:30
FIQ	I run it, but I usually do things you shouldn't do. :P	15:30
psycho_oreos	doesn't seem like it is now. I personally do a backup and flash it myself	15:30
BCMM	assuming you meant ~flashing, i know how to flash; i had to do 1.2 with a PC, and i've broken my kernel once	15:30
BCMM	i'd just rather to OTA	15:30
BCMM	i was wondering whether not having the OTA update available yet means that it will never be available	15:30
FIQ	Running dist-upgrade now actually, but it will not check for enough space in rootfs	15:30
FIQ	(I experienced that yesterday)	15:31
BCMM	FIQ: is that the only problem with -dist-upgrade?	15:31
FIQ	As said, i dunno	15:31
FIQ	I do it, but the most safe would be doing it with usb flashing	15:31
psycho_oreos	yeah I meant ~flashing and I believe it is alot cleaner than doing upgrades OTA (I don't put much faith over OTA but not because its maemo and maemo only)	15:31
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BCMM	FIQ: well, surely the worse than can happen is that one has to flash from PC and lose a bunch of stuff, right?	15:32
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FIQ	Yeah, i guess so	15:32
FIQ	It's not like the device will explode, or do a permabrick. :P	15:32
psycho_oreos	someone suggested to me to use dar and to keep a nice backup, which is what I'm doing right now	15:33
BCMM	FIQ: it's pretty hard to permabrick an n900 from software without OCing isn't it?	15:33
BCMM	is it normal to see updates when you do apt-get upgrade, but not when you use HAM?	15:33
FIQ	It's _possible_, but very hard indeed	15:33
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FIQ	Never happened me before the missing PR1.3 in HAM	15:34
Termana	Well you could accidently dd over the bootloader partition	15:34
BCMM	what about minor versions of "boring" packages?	15:34
Termana	Then your up the creek	15:34
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: with a bit of luck you get a semi-permabrick	15:34
BCMM	the sort you can't install from the GUI	15:34
FIQ	"a bit of luck"	15:35
FIQ	lol :p	15:35
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FIQ	anyway, well, how?	15:35
Termana	FIQ: he means BAD luck	15:35
FIQ	Yeah, i know what he meant	15:35
psycho_oreos	yank the cable when its flashing? heh	15:35
DocScrutinizer	low battery	15:35
FIQ	but still, how?	15:35
FIQ	Oh	15:35
DocScrutinizer	plus bootloop	15:35
Termana	Am I on ignore or something?	15:35
Termana	DD over your bootloader	15:36
FIQ	Meh, wouldn't just a reflash help that?	15:36
Termana	:P	15:36
Termana	Do eeet	15:36
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FIQ	Termana: but a dist-upgrade wouldn't do it. :)	15:36
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: low battery blocks flashing	15:36
DocScrutinizer	bootloop blocks loading	15:36
FIQ	Oh	15:36
Termana	FIQ: you didn't ask weather a dist-upgrade would do it. You asked how could it be done	15:37
FIQ	Lucky me, i've an extra battery :D	15:37
BCMM	suppose you had a really old battery that goes flat faster than they expect?	15:37
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Termana	whether*	15:37
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FIQ	Yeah, i know	15:37
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FIQ	My battery is charging atm, as this upgrade seems to take a lot of time	15:37
psycho_oreos	reflash may but I'd hate to be in a semi-permabrick phase.. in theory one isn't able to brick their devices however the case with a truly bricked device and a semi-permabricked device are signs of potential danger	15:37
FIQ	it's on osso-system packages now, and i started the upgrade 2h ago	15:38
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FIQ	lol osso-tutorial	15:38
* FIQ will uninstall that pretty instantly after done installing		15:39
BCMM	what does "semi-permabrick" mean, anyway?	15:39
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psycho_oreos	as DocScrutinizer boot loops.. I agree	15:39
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FIQ	Well, if you haven't enough battery to do a proper flash, I guess	15:39
psycho_oreos	you see nokia logo/screen appearing and reappearing and reappearing	15:39
FIQ	(as, you can be saved without services if you change battery)	15:40
eduardowoj	Hello people	15:40
FIQ	Well, rebootloop with full battery would still let you reflash, wouldn't it?	15:40
eduardowoj	I'm a graduate physics student, and got a N900 quite ago	15:40
eduardowoj	is there any fortran compiler for maemo	15:40
eduardowoj	or is it possible to install gfortran in xterminal?	15:40
BCMM	so does pr1.3 work like a normal debianish system, or is there something unique about how it's implemented	15:40
BCMM	eduardowoj: i'd like a fortran compiler too	15:41
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BCMM	eduardowoj: unfortunately, there isn't really supposed to be even a C compiler	15:41
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: yes	15:41
psycho_oreos	FIQ, yes, I can't recall who said what was the minimum amount of battery power for reflashing.. I think its no less than 20%	15:41
* FIQ checks his batery		15:41
BCMM	eduardowoj: it probably wouldn't be that hard to build fortran stuff to run on the n900 in scratchbox	15:41
FIQ	yay, 50%	15:41
* MohammadAG51 reflashed on 2% once		15:42
DocScrutinizer	not less than what makes NOLO react properly to holding 'u'	15:42
MohammadAG51	it shut down after i saved settings	15:42
Termana	eduardowoj, BCMM, or you could just install a fortran compiler in a debian chroot	15:42
psycho_oreos	I charge mine up in either case, better to be safe than sorry :)	15:42
BCMM	eduardowoj: good point	15:42
BCMM	Termana: ^	15:42
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psycho_oreos	MohammadAG51, lol you're suicidal ;)	15:42
chem\|st	is the upgrade for UK version out yet?	15:42
MohammadAG51	psycho_oreos, if it dies it'll probably be during rootfs reflash, you can reflash it again	15:42
MohammadAG51	psycho_oreos, and I have 3 batteries and 3 external chargers	15:43
BCMM	eduardowoj: you'll find it a bit slow though	15:43
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MohammadAG51	so i haz backup	15:43
psycho_oreos	if you failed at 2% and the device won't charge you're pretty much more or less forced to either whip out spare battery or to take it to nokia care I bet	15:43
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BCMM	eduardowoj: the n900 feels pretty speedy because a bunch of stuff you do from day-to-day isn't really CPU-bound	15:43
BCMM	compiling, approximately, is	15:43
MohammadAG51	psycho_oreos, see above :P	15:43
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psycho_oreos	MohammadAG51, lol lucky, I don't have any spare batteries	15:43
FIQ	I got one by mistake by nokia when my device borked. :P	15:44
BCMM	ok, how is it possible for pr1.3 not to show up for me? if i can't see it yet, should i assume i never will and flash it?	15:44
FIQ	(taked out everything in it and sent it in, i got a new fresh N900, with everything in it	15:44
FIQ	result: 2 batteries	15:44
MohammadAG51	you got a replacement and didn't send the battery?	15:44
MohammadAG51	ha	15:44
psycho_oreos	lol	15:44
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BCMM	don't they ask you for that?	15:44
* MohammadAG51 wants a twitter client		15:45
BCMM	dunno about nokia, but some laptop manufacturers have you remove the battery to save weight	15:45
chem\|st	MohammadAG51: you normaly send nothing but the bare device, so neither backcover nor battery	15:45
chem\|st	or stylus	15:45
MohammadAG51	might start on one and dump the QtBrowser code on git	15:45
FIQ	I forgot to put out my stylus :<	15:45
psycho_oreos	BCMM, afaik the OTA upgrade should be available globally, I can't verify that because I'm doing a mass backup and the flasher images are already available	15:45
MohammadAG51	need to read how APIs work :/	15:45
FIQ	I've 2 chargers, 2 batteries, 2 usb cables, 2 (...) but just 1 pen	15:45
FIQ	But i don't use it, so i /care. :P	15:46
MohammadAG51	external chargers ftw	15:46
DocScrutinizer	BCMM: why should they, they'l usually shredder the returned stuff anyway	15:46
BCMM	psycho_oreos: does it work through the regular debian-based packaging system?	15:46
chem\|st	FIQ: I would too I guess as I bought a Lamy Laptop pen with pencil and ballroller	15:46
MohammadAG51	charge both, use one, empty it, swap batteries, charge empty one, cycle	15:46
psycho_oreos	BCMM, it should.. like I said I've seen it before that it appeared in HAM but I don't normally take OTA routes regardless if its maemo or not.	15:46
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: heh, I got my device back from repair with 2 stylii	15:47
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FIQ	Heh	15:47
MohammadAG51	UK updates are always delayed	15:47
FIQ	Wasn't UK first at PR1.2?	15:47
MohammadAG51	N97 users used to get updates 2 months late	15:47
BCMM	MohammadAG51: i've already seen a UK phone on 1.3, two days ago	15:47
psycho_oreos	in other words its still not available? o.O	15:47
MohammadAG51	UK users that is	15:47
MohammadAG51	BCMM, maybe he reflashed it?	15:47
psycho_oreos	yeah I recall UK was	15:47
BCMM	MohammadAG51: nah, she got it OTA	15:47
MohammadAG51	PR1.1.1, remember that?	15:48
Termana	Why would you use a region specific version?	15:48
MohammadAG51	it was released a month later	15:48
SpeedEvil	Oddly - my UK phone is not OTAd	15:48
eduardowoj	1.3 can run wiicontrol?	15:48
Termana	Use a darn global version	15:48
BCMM	MohammadAG51: it's possible she was incorrect; she did get it fairly recently	15:48
chem\|st	BCMM: not only to save weight... batteries are out of warranty in most countries as it is a consumable	15:48
SpeedEvil	Several people here have said they OTAd in the UK	15:48
MohammadAG51	BCMM, check dpkg -l mp-fremantle*	15:48
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BCMM	Termana: what's the diff?	15:48
MohammadAG51	UK is 203?	15:48
psycho_oreos	heh I don't think I've actually witnessed PR1.1.1 releases, namely because I got my n900 fairly late	15:48
MohammadAG51	BCMM, none, global's just better	15:48
Termana	^	15:49
MohammadAG51	anyways, i have plans for a proper SSU now	15:49
Termana	Also, you don't get delayed	15:49
MohammadAG51	worked a lot on it yesterday	15:49
BCMM	MohammadAG51: what does that mean? surely there wouldn't be seperate versions if they were identical?	15:49
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG51, yeah 203 is UK	15:49
FIQ	I buyed mine in february and got PR1.1	15:49
FIQ	Then, i got a copy when that one borked, that had PR1.0	15:49
Termana	BCMM, I think there is some nitty gritty changes but generally they are all the same	15:49
FIQ	And, my three SIM card didn't work ;_;	15:49
psycho_oreos	lol	15:50
FIQ	Pretty much everything looked different in PR1.0	15:50
eduardowoj	here, in brazil, i got my global n900 for 793 dollars :-( But the brazilian version is about 1180 dollars o_o	15:50
BCMM	Termana: you have to reflash to switch to a global release, right?	15:50
eduardowoj	too many taxes	15:50
psycho_oreos	I got mine around may 2010, so I guess it would have been pr1.1.1 but I didn't confirm it	15:50
Termana	BCMM, yes	15:50
BCMM	Termana: oh i know, it's stuff like default FM power and stuff which various by jurisdiction, right?	15:50
FIQ	PR1.2 were released in May 2010	15:50
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Termana	BCMM, yes	15:50
FIQ	Yay, rtcom	15:51
FIQ	it will be done finally, soon	15:51
BCMM	Termana: so how do you tell which regional version a device is running?	15:51
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BCMM	maybe the one i've seen is actually global	15:51
TiagoTiago	damn crashes	15:51
Termana	Also, I always have flashed mine for updates, so it never bothered me. Plus I think Australia is global default anyway	15:51
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Termana	BCMM, version number will tell you	15:51
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Termana	In Settings -> About Device	15:51
BCMM	hrm, how?	15:51
BCMM	Termana: version number tells you the region?	15:52
Termana	The end number tells you. 0 is global, 203 is UK, the others I don't know	15:52
BCMM	ah	15:52
BCMM	thanks	15:52
psycho_oreos	eduardowoj, I guess its more or less the same everywhere, but I've heard of a story of some bloke here bought n900 before it was officially released locally and the early n900 suffered USB socket problems (pre-releases mainly) and he was a victim of it. He couldn't take it to his local nokia care because he doesn't have a valid warranty (device is purchased overseas)	15:52
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Termana	psycho_oreos, Nokia Care should still repair it. For a cost.	15:52
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* RST38h moos distractedly		15:53
FIQ	10.2010.19-1	15:53
FIQ	is my version	15:53
Termana	Which would be lower than buying a new one, for just the USB port	15:53
psycho_oreos	Termana, yeah the bloke later on didn't bother with it, I guess he lost interest in n900 completely	15:53
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MohammadAG51	pr1.0 had the best conversations app	15:53
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Termana	Good mornign RST38h	15:53
Termana	morning*	15:53
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MohammadAG51	good scrolling, good repainting of widget	15:53
RST38h	Good moorning	15:54
RST38h	Mohammad: Conversations uses MicroB instance + some CSS to render things	15:54
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RST38h	Mohammad: Which, of course, makes it very configurable, but does nothing to improve performance	15:54
TiagoTiago	The only Nokia care around here is on the other side of town, last year when i had to replace the keypad of my N73 i ended up paying a local repair shop to have it done, it was ready the next day (it would have been the same day if they hadn't ran out of black keypads)	15:54
RST38h	Especially when you chat with multiple people	15:54
BCMM	Termana: is there a table of the region codes online somewhere?	15:54
psycho_oreos	pr1.1.1 had the ability to be able to `window-ise' media player and with proper scaling, pr1.2 doesn't have that capability	15:55
MohammadAG51	RST38h, yeah I know	15:55
MohammadAG51	it uses browserd	15:55
psycho_oreos	lol	15:55
RST38h	Tiago: Replacing a keypad takes 30 minutes at a local electronics market	15:55
Termana	BCMM, possibly. Or you could just look at the version numbers on the images on tablets-dev	15:55
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RST38h	Tiago: Doing it through Nokia.... you know.	15:55
ruskie	nice finally an update I didn't need to reflash	15:55
TiagoTiago	lol	15:55
MohammadAG51	CSS sucks though	15:55
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BCMM	Termana: there's one here that came from carphone warehouse, briefly pre-own and reflashed before resale, with a version ending .36-2	15:56
BCMM	Termana: that's a good point, i'll look there	15:56
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RST38h	Mohammad: QML uses CSS	15:56
RST38h	Mohammad: Or CSS-like script, anyway. Maybe it will be faster at rendering then MicroB though	15:56
RST38h	Mohammad: Which brings a nice application idea: Conversations replacement in QML =)	15:56
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asj_	RST38h: it doesn't even look like CSS	15:57
RST38h	I am sure Quim will be ecstatic, as it is fully aligned with his goals	15:57
RST38h	asj: Looks CSS enough to me.	15:57
asj_	RST38h: then you don't know CSS and QML, just becaus esomething is "blah: other" doesn't make it CSS	15:58
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fcrochik	any official "testers" online? I really would like to hear from you why you don't care to check mycontacts...	15:59
BCMM	CSS has {} in it, and therefore is a dialect of C	15:59
* BCMM dugs		15:59
* BCMM ducks		15:59
TiagoTiago	lol	15:59
RST38h	asj: Ok, I do not know CSS or QML :)	16:00
FIQ	then, pretty much every language is a dialect of C :D	16:00
asj_	;)	16:00
psycho_oreos	except for B	16:00
RST38h	CSS is a dialect of JSON!	16:00
* RST38h hides now		16:00
FIQ	yay tablet-browsing-ui	16:00
SpeedEvil	fcrochik: Because today I need to clean the surround to my pond, make a stew, phone my insurance people to correct fuckups, fill out a huge form, pack away some potatos.	16:00
FIQ	almost done	16:00
* asj_ goes to bed		16:00
SpeedEvil	...	16:00
TiagoTiago	Someone should make an esolang based on smileys, that would be fun	16:01
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crashanddie	anyone feeling like defacing a website real quick?	16:01
fcrochik	SpeedEvil: in other words: busy with something more important?	16:01
FIQ	:) :( :@ ;) :O :) :) :(?	16:01
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MohammadAG51	crashanddie, if I knew how to, i would've defaced facebook	16:01
FIQ	:{ :) :) :}	16:01
TiagoTiago	sure, and include asian style ones as well	16:01
crashanddie	MohammadAG51, http://mobilemru.com/meetup/signup.php	16:02
FIQ	^_^	16:02
MohammadAG51	technically, how is defacing done?	16:02
crashanddie	the search box	16:02
SpeedEvil	fcrochik: Pretty much - I'd like to be testing more apps, but it falls off the end of my list.	16:02
crashanddie	MohammadAG51, if you type a specific sql string, you get direct access to his database	16:02
TiagoTiago	hack the server and change the content of files	16:02
psycho_oreos	sql inject? heh	16:02
* DocScrutinizer yawns		16:02
crashanddie	a quick example, in the search box, type ' and 1 = 0; --	16:03
crashanddie	(space after the double dashes, important)	16:03
crashanddie	it should return no results	16:03
FIQ	ehm	16:03
fcrochik	SpeedEvil: I completely understand... and do you think the "process" is still good/works?	16:03
FIQ	last time i checked you can't really change content with SQL if you don't run ASP	16:03
FIQ	and PHP > ASP :<	16:03
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crashanddie	FIQ, well, you can change his homepage blog posts	16:04
crashanddie	MohammadAG51, also, I've noticed he has wordpress installed, so checking if there is a wp_users table: ' or exists(select *from INFORMATION_SCHEMA.TABLES where TABLE_NAME LIKE 'wp\_posts'); --	16:04
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crashanddie	err, that should be wp_users	16:04
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FIQ	er	16:04
FIQ	wouldn't that need quotes?	16:04
FIQ	and, you can use union as well :D	16:05
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FIQ	quotes is more often blocked than just continuing a statement without them (look ?foo=(supposed to be an int here))	16:05
_berto_	someone promote this to extras-testing: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/qstardict/0.13.2-3fb2/	16:06
fcrochik	SpeedEvil: Mycontacts package is on testing since 09/17. Now with PR1.3 even if promoted will not work. I created a new package yesterday that works just fine and now if I decide to promote it to testing will remove the previous one and still may never see the day light....I can't believe people think this makes sense...	16:06
FIQ	Btw, googling ' and 1 = 0; -- gives nothing of interest	16:06
BCMM	google strips punctuation	16:06
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FIQ	even if you quote everything?	16:07
BCMM	yeah	16:07
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FIQ	shame on them	16:07
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BCMM	http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22-%22	16:07
BCMM	it's a pain	16:07
FIQ	happens that i want to search for a site when i know the exact content	16:08
fcrochik	SpeedEvil: this process for me only promotes not getting applications up to date.... It should at least treat initial applications different than upgrades.... as an user after I install one application I pretty much start "trusting" it and want it to be the latest....	16:08
FIQ	but not the site	16:08
FIQ	just googling words don't always help	16:08
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FIQ	BCMM: that's bad	16:08
lcuk	crashanddie, a bit lame, thats sqlinjection, not usually defacement	16:08
FIQ	googling www ftw	16:09
FIQ	gives some results out there :D	16:09
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lcuk	crash, have you worked out how to actually list all users signed up then	16:09
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ebzzry	Hi! Are there Gnutella clients for Fremantle?	16:10
FIQ	yay, the update is pretty much done	16:10
FIQ	it's just setting everything up atm	16:10
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BCMM	ebzzry: heh, that still exists?	16:11
* BCMM hands ebzzry a bittorrent client		16:11
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TiagoTiago	Is there any known ways to use a N900 to prevent a nearby iPhone from connecting to the cell network? (I mean, other than throwing it at the person trying to use the iPhone)	16:12
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Termana	Just chuck their iPhone in the microwave	16:13
dimir	:-D	16:13
Termana	And if they really piss you off, start the microwave	16:13
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: ack. Has been discussed several times, no idea about last common sense if any	16:13
TiagoTiago	lol	16:13
psycho_oreos	lol	16:13
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psycho_oreos	I'd play `iphonefly'	16:14
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psycho_oreos	catch the iphone! smash woops	16:14
BCMM	TiagoTiago: play very loud music?	16:14
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BCMM	use several n900s, overwhelm teh tower	16:14
FIQ	what is n900fly actually?	16:15
TiagoTiago	lol	16:15
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I know it has... It is just that still does not make sense to me and it seems that people are happy with it... so I keep trying to understand....	16:15
FIQ	Is it actually serious about throwing the N900, or is it just simulation? D:	16:15
TiagoTiago	it uses the accelerometers to estimate how high the N900 has been flung	16:15
BCMM	FIQ: you throw the n900; it uses acelerometer data to tell you how high it went	16:15
FIQ	wat	16:15
FIQ	...	16:15
BCMM	i have not installed it	16:15
psycho_oreos	I think you're supposed to throw and catch your n900	16:15
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: stop trying this - it might hurt your brain :-)	16:15
FIQ	Do people actually use that?	16:15
psycho_oreos	neither have I.. wouldn't want to miss catching your n900 :)	16:15
TiagoTiago	I'm waiting eversince i read about it for someone to use it while skydiving	16:16
BCMM	FIQ: i don't know, are there any stats on packages?	16:16
BCMM	you could use it for other things	16:16
BCMM	like	16:16
BCMM	throwing yourself	16:16
BCMM	while holding an n900	16:16
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Termana	FIQ: Yes, just roll it into a sleeping bag	16:16
Termana	lcuk, what did you say your high score was?	16:16
TiagoTiago	i have it on just for kicks, only tried a few <10cm throws over my bed	16:16
fcrochik	DocScrutinizer: I will perfectly happy if people tell me that the applications I created are useless and that is why nobody cares... but it does not seem the case and still I have to see people that have an very old version w/o good reason.	16:17
BCMM	it's a conspiracy by nokia to sell more n900s	16:17
TiagoTiago	lol	16:17
psycho_oreos	so owners can see how far they threw their device in angerness? ;)	16:18
TiagoTiago	If that was the case they should have made a prog for sending morse code by pluging and unpluging the USB charger	16:18
FIQ	lol	16:18
FIQ	@ BCMM	16:18
ebzzry	BCMM: Thanks, but there are still things that are unavailable or difficult to obtain via BitTorrent.	16:18
DocScrutinizer	fcrochik: seems your best bet is to ask for testers here, every once in a while	16:18
FIQ	Hahah	16:18
FIQ	indeed	16:18
achipa	throwing phones is a valid sport in Finland	16:18
FIQ	@ TiagoTiago	16:18
TiagoTiago	PErhaps on tmo too?	16:18
FIQ	Yeah, but that's OLD phones	16:19
FIQ	GSM ones	16:19
* TiagoTiago nods		16:19
psycho_oreos	achipa, on open grounds?	16:19
TiagoTiago	lol	16:19
RST38h	New ones are too light to make it a good sport	16:19
psycho_oreos	except for n900 :\|	16:19
achipa	psycho_oreos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_throwing	16:19
Termana	psycho_oreos, How did I KNOW someone was going to say that	16:19
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TiagoTiago	Someone should wrap a N900 in bubblewrap, start N900fly via VNC/SSH, and place it one one of those trebuchets that fling cars	16:20
DocScrutinizer	FIQ: no, these are aerodynamically optimized heavy phones	16:20
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psycho_oreos	achipa, :\| that's crazy.. I wouldn't dare throw my n900 just for fun	16:20
FIQ	k	16:20
psycho_oreos	Termana, o.O which?	16:20
FIQ	but still not phones you use	16:20
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Termana	psycho_oreos, (How did I know someone would say in response to "new ones are too light") except for n900	16:21
Termana	Someone had to make the "brick" joke	16:21
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psycho_oreos	Termana, lol	16:22
psycho_oreos	I'm sure n900 isn't the only brick :)	16:22
TiagoTiago	N900: The most usefull doorstop you will ever own	16:22
BCMM	it still doesn't feel as solid as a 3410	16:22
psycho_oreos	plus comparing n900 with a brick is kinda moot.. brick is useless, n900 isn't	16:22
TiagoTiago	Not really, with bricks you can build schools, and you can break windows :P	16:23
BCMM	i have literally drop-kicked my 3410 on many occasions	16:23
DocScrutinizer	heh, using 2 of those doorstops I "built" a RF remote for my TV yesterday. Very handy	16:23
pexi	well.. bricks in my house are way more useful than n900 ever :)	16:23
Termana	BCMM, in Soviet Russia, phone drop-kick you!	16:23
psycho_oreos	that's what stones are for, for breaking windows or to crack skulls (with enough velocity)	16:23
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crashanddie	lcuk, those 3 users are the only users	16:24
crashanddie	lcuk, I've deleted the rest	16:24
TiagoTiago	My father had a Nokia (i don't remember the model), he dropped it while riding his bike, ran over it, he only had to replace the screen	16:24
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FIQ	Well, older phones needs more treat to be destroyed :)	16:24
TiagoTiago	heh	16:25
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psycho_oreos	much like cars these days ;) metal bumpers on old cars and plastic bumpers on current cars	16:25
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Termana	psycho_oreos, better at impact absorption. Would you rather you or your car be crippled?	16:26
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TiagoTiago	Except that with cars they are meant to be easilly destroyed; there is no pilot and no pedestrian to be saved by dissipating energy with breaking the hardware of a mobile	16:26
BCMM	TiagoTiago: not a 3410 then; if you did that to a 3410 it would be just a new fascia	16:27
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: you might be interested: just start irreco on both devices, place one directly in front of appliance to IR control, on the other one you replace "localhost" by IP of first device, in irreco edit -> device controllers -> edit	16:27
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BCMM	kinda awesome the way they had a replaceable plastic shield over the screen	16:28
psycho_oreos	Termana, all for the pedestrian sake.. but what if it was you versus a pole? :) metal bumpers can be hammered back into shape, plastic bumpers needs to be completely replaced (you can't even fix it let alone believing a fixed plastic bumper would be deemed safe)	16:28
TiagoTiago	I wonder if by the end of the century cars will still be the thing that is used as analogy or comparison to anything from desktop operating systems to mobile phones to the economy	16:28
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, i thought it was only a transmitter?	16:28
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: err, yes	16:28
BCMM	TiagoTiago: well, it's the complex machine that everyone knows, and most people have at least an extremely vague understanding of hte workings of	16:29
crashanddie	DocScrutinizer, didn't compute then	16:29
DocScrutinizer	not for WiFi though	16:29
psycho_oreos	cars and technology gadgetry stuff are known to be man's usually most tinkered toys	16:29
BCMM	TiagoTiago: in a century, i'd expect a computer to be the thing people use for analogies	16:29
BCMM	^everybody owns	16:29
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DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: lirc on proxy device in front of TV lstening to ....:8765	16:30
TiagoTiago	but computers have bneen changing so fast for such a short span of time, i dunno if they could develop the same zeitgast standard as cars have	16:30
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TiagoTiago	i think i misspelled the german loanword	16:30
psycho_oreos	unfortunately cars are for more expensive to produce compare to say a SOHO router	16:30
divan	Hello, Is there any tool like dpkg-buildpackage or tutorial on the best practice on creating .deb packages for PyQt4 apps?	16:30
BCMM	TiagoTiago: needs moar i and e in the wrong order	16:31
DocScrutinizer	crashanddie: now tell irreco on remote device not to use localhost:8765 but instead <IP-of-proxy>:8765	16:31
psycho_oreos	s/for/far/	16:31
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: unfartunately cars are for more expensive to produce compare to say a SOHO router	16:31
BCMM	TiagoTiago: it's a good rule of thumb for spelling german	16:31
divan	I can create .db with ar and tar, of course, but I think there must be some more right way.	16:31
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TiagoTiago	lol	16:31
psycho_oreos	bot fails	16:31
BCMM	well, it's convincing, if not always actually correct	16:31
TiagoTiago	lol	16:32
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DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: you fail	16:32
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psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, no bot fails :) there's two instances of words matching for but the bot replaced one	16:33
MohammadAG51	divan, see how healthcheck does it	16:33
MohammadAG51	or psfreedom 0.3, not 0.5	16:33
DocScrutinizer	psycho_oreos: so what? it's exactly what you asked for	16:33
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DocScrutinizer	s/a/A/g	16:33
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: psycho_oreos: so whAt? it's exActly whAt you Asked for	16:33
MohammadAG51	man sed :P	16:34
psycho_oreos	DocScrutinizer, meh	16:34
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MohammadAG51	psycho_oreos, no /g makes it replace the first instance	16:34
divan	MohammadAG51, thanks.	16:35
psycho_oreos	MohammadAG51, I thought it was per line basis without /g	16:35
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FIQ	replaces every instance	16:35
mgedmin	which regex dialect does infobot implement?	16:35
FIQ	er	16:35
FIQ	ups	16:35
FIQ	/g means global	16:35
FIQ	replaces every instance	16:35
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MohammadAG51	mgedmin, sed	16:35
* FIQ failed there and executed /g as a command		16:35
mgedmin	that means POSIX basic regexs, right?	16:36
MohammadAG51	FIQ, it happens :P	16:36
inz	Has it been upgraded, last I tried it was not a regex engine, but a string replacer.	16:36
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: a crippled string search/replace, without special chars or wildcards allowed	16:36
FIQ	hmm	16:36
FIQ	foo bar	16:36
psycho_oreos	s/^/meh\,/	16:36
FIQ	er	16:36
FIQ	foo/////test////////AAAAAAAA	16:36
psycho_oreos	lol	16:36
FIQ	s/\//\\/g	16:37
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FIQ	;_;	16:37
RST38h	http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/27/bus-that-travels-over-traffic-longs-for-us-embrace-designer-see/ <=== Yess, please!	16:37
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TiagoTiago	Would using the cell data conection with the N900 look like using a laptop + a mobile phone as modem from the point of view of the carrier?	16:38
sx0n	yep	16:38
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sx0n	s/.+/dunno/	16:38
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: exactly	16:38
mgedmin	hmm	16:39
* MohammadAG51 wants to make a homescreen widget that properly controls the media player		16:39
mgedmin	s/./=/	16:39
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DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: no, it doesn't work with any special chars	16:39
DocScrutinizer	s/o,/o, /	16:39
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: mgedmin: no, it doesn't work with any special chars	16:39
TiagoTiago	I wonder if i'll have to go to court over this....,the carrier says you are only allowed to use that data plan with the mobile itself, not tethering	16:40
DocScrutinizer	hmm , is no special char yet	16:40
KMFDM	TiagoTiago, did your provider disconnect you claiming you tethered?	16:40
FIQ	YAY	16:40
FIQ	finally	16:40
FIQ	PR1.3 upgrading done	16:40
FIQ	Took more than 3 hours	16:40
TiagoTiago	i havcen't subscribed to the dataplan yet, but i'm considering	16:40
dreamer	FIQ: wow, slow connection?	16:40
FIQ	no	16:40
KMFDM	TiagoTiago, most providers do not aggressively check that	16:40
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FIQ	actually the download took just 5-10 minutes	16:41
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: forget it, they can't even check	16:41
FIQ	it unpacked every package in like 20 secs	16:41
KMFDM	because it requires quite intense deep packet inspection to tell the difference	16:41
DocScrutinizer	they just do heuristics about data volume, ports/services used etc	16:41
FIQ	dunno why	16:41
KMFDM	yeah	16:41
TiagoTiago	it's a nice dataplan, i can have it while still having a prepaid, it's only 50 cents (of my country) per day (or fraction) of use	16:42
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TiagoTiago	but if you use more than the quota of bytes on a day, or for the month, it will automaticly drop the speed	16:42
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dreamer	so, why are there all these different kernels going around? next to the default this poweruser kernel, and if you want to use the wifi hotspot app a different custom kernel	16:42
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dreamer	ah, now I see the hotspot needs the poweruser kernel .. but still the app doesn't work here ..	16:43
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TiagoTiago	so i'm wondering if besides the automatic byte counter they might have somthing that analyzes the dataflow using some simple heuristics to determine if it isn't tethering	16:43
DocScrutinizer	dreamer: nope, hotspot is using powerkernel. It is because stock kernel doesn't support a number of features, like netfilters etc	16:43
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FIQ	mobilehotspot that is?	16:44
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dreamer	DocScrutinizer: yeah I just saw, but the app still isn't working (I thought I needed yet another kernel for this)	16:44
FIQ	because, i installed power kernel only because of that	16:44
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FIQ	but still nothing	16:44
TiagoTiago	any idea how long untill the power kernel is updated to keep up with pr.1.3?	16:44
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: ask titan	16:44
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TiagoTiago	Those buses must be a bitch to be under on turns and near exits	16:44
DocScrutinizer	TiagoTiago: err wut?	16:45
TiagoTiago	The bus on that engadget post someonementioned here a few minutes ago	16:45
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dreamer	I just get 'HotSpot failed to start'	16:47
DocScrutinizer	dreamer: you'll need a pr1.3 compatible version, I guess	16:47
lcuk	TiagoTiago, RTFA, traffic lights and flow control	16:48
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TiagoTiago	~RTFA	16:48
* lcuk saw that a couple of weeks ago		16:48
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lcuk	read the fine article ;)	16:48
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TiagoTiago	ah	16:48
dreamer	DocScrutinizer: ah yes, I see from the commandline that maybe it needs a newer kernel	16:48
dreamer	so we'll have to wait for that ..	16:48
TiagoTiago	they don't say much on that page....	16:48
MohammadAG51	i think t-tan retired	16:49
MohammadAG51	don't see him around a lot	16:49
DocScrutinizer	yep	16:49
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DocScrutinizer	lcuk: ???	16:51
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TiagoTiago	:(	16:51
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GAN900	Talk seems less reactionary than would be normal to PR1.3	16:53
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TiagoTiago	what do you mean?	16:54
MohammadAG51	bbl, maybe 3 hours or so	16:55
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Termana	GAN900, haven't you heard?	16:56
GAN900	Termana, what?	16:56
Termana	GAN900, PR1.4 is where it's at!	16:56
GAN900	TiagoTiago, not enough anger	16:56
Termana	:p	16:56
GAN900	Termana, jokes on you, there aint gonna be one!	16:57
DocScrutinizer	pr1.5 ftw	16:57
TiagoTiago	PErhaps all the people that were gonna jump the gun gave up during the period tmo was not managing the load	16:57
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TiagoTiago	pr2;0 is what i'm waiting for	16:57
TiagoTiago	2.0*	16:57
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RST38h	GAN900: They did not fix the phone app bug :)))	16:59
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TiagoTiago	i'm confused, i thought i had seen the article, but now i see another article that might be the same but is different...	17:02
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: ping	17:04
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DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: what's been the story around bootloader updates in PR1.3?	17:05
DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: ^^^	17:05
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DocScrutinizer	anybody else? NOLO in PR1.3?	17:08
TiagoTiago	Would be fun to have those monsters on OpenTTD	17:08
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GAN900	RST38h, what bugs DID they fix.	17:11
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GAN900	Good news is we can ship our own updates now	17:11
GAN900	Since there's zero chance Nokia will be shipping more.	17:11
TiagoTiago	lol	17:11
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TiagoTiago	From what i've heard it seems like they didn't fix and add enough to satisfy many people, i have a feeling we will still see a .4 and .5 is still in the realms of possibility even if with much lower probability	17:13
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crashanddie	TiagoTiago, Say hi to Santa for me, will ya?	17:16
TiagoTiago	will do	17:16
javispedro	morning gentlemen	17:17
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* javispedro is back to normal and hating tmo, after the PM storm.		17:17
RST38h	rehello javispedro	17:18
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TiagoTiago	lol, can't handle being famous for beinging webos games tot he N900?	17:18
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TiagoTiago	bringing*	17:18
javispedro	I cannot handle idiots.	17:18
sivang	javispedro: PM?	17:18
javispedro	quality of error reports has been steadily decreasing. Right now I get "does not work" (without any attach information)-style reports.	17:19
RST38h	javispedro: Ignore them.	17:19
javispedro	Previously, I got attached _invented_ error messages.	17:19
RST38h	If you ignore them, they will at some point disappear and what you have left are semi-normal users	17:20
javispedro	Far from the high quality reports that made me say a few days ago that "tmo was worth it".	17:20
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RST38h	It also helps to switch from tmo to a moderated google group	17:20
TiagoTiago	Is there somewhere a checklist of thigns i should try after installing pr1.3?	17:20
X-Fade	javispedro: That is the engadget effect probably ;)	17:20
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javispedro	X-Fade: very probably	17:21
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DocScrutinizer	lo javispedro	17:25
GAN900	TiagoTiago, not based on what I've heard.	17:26
javispedro	hi	17:26
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lcuk	TiagoTiago, [X] Everything you are interested in.	17:27
TiagoTiago	lol	17:27
* X-Fade points GAN900 to #maemo-ssu		17:28
DocScrutinizer	lcuk: javispedro: X-Fade: what's been the story around bootloader updates in PR1.3?	17:28
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: No changes afaik.	17:28
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javispedro	if there has been any change, not documented.	17:28
javispedro	why you ask, DocScrutinizer?	17:28
DocScrutinizer	I seem to remember buzzwords like kexec, m-shield	17:29
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PaulFertser	javispedro: it's me installing pr1.3 on a pre-production device.	17:29
TiagoTiago	I think i read somewhere that its ready for doing the dualboot with meego, but it isn't doing it as it is, you gotta make it do it yourself	17:29
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X-Fade	NOLO has always been able to start uboot.	17:29
DocScrutinizer	that's all known	17:30
X-Fade	So that is the way to start meego ;)	17:30
PaulFertser	javispedro: and there're "2nd", "secondary" and "xloader" embedded in the fiasco image, and i've no idea if i should flash them and if yes, then which version (that fiasco image has several of every).	17:30
X-Fade	Just a package in extras-devel which set the bootmenu and boot from sd?	17:30
javispedro	PaulFertser: no idea, never got a preprod device.	17:31
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javispedro	PaulFertser: I'd search and/or ask -devel, maybe a Nokian can pick the story up	17:31
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PaulFertser	javispedro: somebody should know why those BL parts are included in the fiasco image for update...	17:31
DocScrutinizer	and jacekowski I seem to recall mentioned some fixes needed in m-shield handling in xloader, to make either security framework or kexec work	17:31
PaulFertser	javispedro: i'm afraid to join -devel as i'm supposed to be always distracting the developers from the real work by useless rants.	17:32
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: no, kexec does not need nolo work	17:32
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javispedro	well, that I know of..	17:32
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: thanks, finaly one decent bit of info	17:33
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: as I am no insider I can't be 100% sure.	17:33
PaulFertser	I'd be actually surprised if it did.	17:33
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DocScrutinizer	tbh me too	17:33
DocScrutinizer	prolly mixed it up with security framework	17:33
DocScrutinizer	jacekowski: PING!!	17:33
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javispedro	security framework might need, but... this was implemented in PR1.3? O.o	17:34
X-Fade	There is no security framework.	17:34
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: isn't there any documentation of the basic operation scheme of N900 booting (early stages, like xloader, NOLO etc) ?	17:34
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Why would one care?	17:34
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: see above, see uBoot & meego, see security framework for meego	17:35
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: uboot lives in kernel.	17:35
DocScrutinizer	err?	17:35
X-Fade	No need for bootloader support.	17:35
X-Fade	Well attached to kernel.	17:36
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: the security framework nightware^W^W stuff lives in Harmattan, not Meego	17:36
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X-Fade	uboot - a little bit of padding - kernel, all flashed to the kernel partition.	17:36
DocScrutinizer	yes, but otherwise quite unrelated	17:37
DocScrutinizer	they share one partition, that's all basically, aiui	17:37
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PaulFertser	X-Fade: (why one should care) how to e.g. make a backup of a currently flashed kernel? How to flash anything without proprietary apps? I'd say these questions are imprortant and practical enough.	17:38
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javispedro	0xFFFF	17:39
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: there's zero documentation about coldflash, how it's done, and what it does, for example. Beyond what's in flasher --help and what jacekowski gathered from disassembling BL and testing it	17:39
PaulFertser	javispedro: i do use that. Unfortunately, the support is incomplete.	17:39
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Well yes, F and M-bus are not public either.	17:39
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PaulFertser	javispedro: works for flashing via USB but not for making backups or (probably) flashing from the userspace of the device itself.	17:40
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PaulFertser	X-Fade: but F and M buses are supported by free software since long (gnokii).	17:40
Stskeeps	lo PaulFertser	17:40
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: hi, i'm glad to see you again :)	17:41
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: they are no secret nevertheless, so I'd expect at least one sentence somewhere, like "coldflashing on N900 is done via USB, on N8x0 it needs a jig connecting to F-Bus"	17:41
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: was that sarcasm? ;p	17:41
X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Afaik you need the pads on the back.	17:41
maybeHere	hehehe, F-Bus	17:41
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: jacekowski claims he coldflashed via USB on N900	17:42
DocScrutinizer	he further claims there's proper code in ROM bl to do this	17:43
GAN900	PaulFertser, there's no such thing as a "FIASCO image for an update"	17:43
GAN900	PaulFertser, think of it like a recovery disc.	17:43
DocScrutinizer	THAT is the kind of info I expect Nokia is sharing to community, rather than a hazardeur trying it by risking his device	17:43
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X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Well, I'll bet you'll never see that.	17:44
DocScrutinizer	yeah, I fear you're right :-/	17:45
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, consumer device. :P	17:45
DocScrutinizer	MUHAHA	17:45
* GAN900 needs to poke timsamoff about camera kit recommendations for Dublin.		17:46
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DocScrutinizer	means recovery is a service (not) offered at Nokia Care Centers - as those dudes have NFC about coldflashing and things	17:46
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: nah, i'm really glad.	17:47
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: central does have a coldflashing machine, though, at least here.	17:47
PaulFertser	GAN900: yes, ok, i meant fiasco image corresponding to pr1.3.	17:47
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: first thing they do when you sent one there is put it into the cradle and coldflash it	17:47
DocScrutinizer	yes, they have that jig, and shit. But NFC what is going on when they use it	17:48
javispedro	true.	17:48
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DocScrutinizer	who'd recover a not booting device with invaluable precious info stored to rootfs somewhere?	17:49
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DocScrutinizer	let's say when CSI comes asking for it?	17:49
javispedro	hah	17:49
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javispedro	csi does not exist	17:49
javispedro	seriously.	17:50
erani	hmm. at Rovio they commented the delay of Angry Bird on Android because of the fragmentation of the OS. isn't this actually where MeeGo/Maemo/Symbian + Qt fights better than Android?	17:50
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peb	DocScrutinizer, you need a screwdriver, some cables and a microscope ... anyone can do, I bet ..	17:50
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DocScrutinizer	ok, s/csi/Bundeskriminalamt/	17:50
DocScrutinizer	peb: BS	17:50
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peb	:-)	17:50
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: any country's "csi" would only request such a thing if it was very, very, very serious stuff. the kind that you _bring in_ the engineers from nokia hq	17:50
DocScrutinizer	isn't that SAD	17:51
javispedro	possibly	17:51
jarkkom	at least in finland police have outsourced most of data recovery stuff like that to specialist companies/contractors	17:51
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DocScrutinizer	what's about Nokia's "this is FOSS" attitude?	17:51
TiagoTiago	i wonder why i keep getting disconnected...	17:52
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GAN900	DocScrutinizer, good marketing?	17:52
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: getting worse with every device =)	17:52
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erani	oh well that conversation died at the very beginning sentence :L	17:52
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GAN900	"A challenger approaches" is the sound I want to hear.	17:53
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javispedro	ohhh... Luigi!	17:53
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DocScrutinizer	so they shouldn't feel surprised about community getting angry and calling names on them	17:53
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GAN900	erani, theoretically, but not so great in execution.	17:53
DocScrutinizer	it's been kinda promise, and not published once but many times	17:53
nid0	so heres an odd one	17:53
GAN900	DocScrutinizer, I love that they were surprised that people reacted badly to them dropping support.	17:53
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GAN900	The worst part about Nokia's behavior is that there are still no better alternatives.	17:54
nid0	installed preenv, tried to extract an ipk using dpkg to /home/user, halfway through it dies with a no space left on disk, and it seems my device's rootfs is now at 100% used	17:54
javispedro	nid0: you didn't use "dpkg -i" don't ya?	17:55
nid0	no, tried to extract it with dpkg -x	17:55
nid0	thing is, I cant see where the space has actually vanished to, bizzarely the device reboots fine but comes back up with 0 free space on rootfs still	17:56
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DocScrutinizer	nid0: if you can manage to rm some crap prior to next boot, you still have a chance to avoid reflashing :-)	17:57
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DocScrutinizer	err, sorry. missed the last post	17:57
nid0	it already reboots - I figured dpkg had just been caching the extract somewhere i wasnt expecting so was hoping a reboot would clear it out	17:57
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javispedro	so, strace it and look what files it creates	17:58
nid0	strace isnt currently installed	17:58
nid0	and neither dpkg or apt currently work, with rootfs having 0 space	17:58
TiagoTiago	javi, any chance of a gui to do everything being released anytime soon?	17:59
DocScrutinizer	nid0: rm is your friend	18:00
javispedro	TiagoTiago: not planned.	18:00
nid0	DocScrutinizer indeed, need to find *what- to rm though :p	18:00
TiagoTiago	i see	18:00
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javispedro	nid0: use du -sh /*	18:00
DocScrutinizer	du -x /\|sort -n	18:00
javispedro	:)	18:00
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: nice! it even works in messybox	18:01
nid0	oh. /usr/palm/applications	18:01
TiagoTiago	Thigns would be a bit easier if you had StorageUsage installed	18:01
nid0	seems dpkg tried to extract the whole ipk to there :\	18:01
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javispedro	I doubt dpkg would do that, so... possibly -x requires a "where_to_extract" argument	18:02
nid0	i gave it one :\	18:02
nid0	possibly wrongly formatted though, im more familiar with rpm tbh	18:02
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DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: for example it'd be mad useful to know about silly things like kernel cmdline passed by NOLO, and maybe even how to change it permanently. Implementing meego uBoot is a PITA without such info	18:05
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MohammadAG51	cmdline is passed by kernel	18:05
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: that is known afaik	18:05
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DocScrutinizer	it is RE'd	18:05
MohammadAG51	can be edited from .config file	18:05
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X-Fade	DocScrutinizer: Just look at serial console?	18:05
DocScrutinizer	but not documented for all I know	18:05
mc_teo	how come media player cant play .flvs anymore	18:06
MohammadAG51	CONFIG_DEFAULT_CMDLINE i think	18:06
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: kernel code is entirely open	18:06
MohammadAG51	that's normal linux kernel	18:06
MohammadAG51	stuff	18:06
mc_teo	does it need a package of its own now?	18:06
MohammadAG51	decoders-support	18:06
mc_teo	i already had that	18:06
mc_teo	before pr1.3	18:07
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* MohammadAG51 tests		18:07
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: I can give a "just do x, then y" for every single question that arises regarding xloader & NOLO, but the point is you don't always want or are not always equipped to do that particular thing. It needs an official doc	18:07
mc_teo	they dont even show up in the player	18:07
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: I know kernel code is open	18:08
TiagoTiago	The ring of fire is horseshoe shaped pouts	18:08
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DocScrutinizer	and I know kernel does or can be patched to do logging of bootloader passed cmdline parameters	18:08
javispedro	MohammadAG51 says that the default boot cmdline is stored on the kernel itself, so what's only missing is the NOLO protocol for passing a cmdline that has been send through flasher's -b	18:10
DocScrutinizer	but I dunno how to change those, in NOLO. can it be done? by binary patching if nothing else helps - or will this break some checksum xloader runs over NOLO?	18:10
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MohammadAG51	jacekowski, might know	18:10
javispedro	and there's at least an open implementation of the receiving part of that protocol: the kernel.	18:10
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MohammadAG51	javispedro, changed it to boot from mmc once	18:11
MohammadAG51	and meego does that too afaik (cc Stskeeps)	18:11
PaulFertser	There's a standardized way of supplying data to the kernel from bootloader (on ARM): ATAGs.	18:11
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: that's my point. Everybody should be able to get to know	18:11
javispedro	PaulFertser: somehow I'm sure standarized!=Nokia ;P	18:11
javispedro	(but did not check it)	18:11
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, badly maintained wikis	18:11
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, lack of contributors, we lost Jebba for example	18:12
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: Nokia core development and wiki are different universes	18:12
sivang	MohammadAG51: where did he go?	18:13
MohammadAG51	nice, bug 10613 i+ back	18:13
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613 screen glitches on incoming call	18:13
MohammadAG51	sivang, he left, free vs non-free stff	18:13
MohammadAG51	stuff	18:13
MohammadAG51	fucking hildon-im long press shit	18:13
sivang	MohammadAG51: went to work for Nokia?	18:13
sivang	DocScrutinizer: offical docs problem is terrible	18:13
DocScrutinizer	sivang: ack	18:13
MohammadAG51	err, what?	18:13
DocScrutinizer	that's my point	18:13
sivang	DocScrutinizer: the SAD thing for me	18:13
sivang	DocScrutinizer: well, for "US" or MeeGo i that regard	18:14
MohammadAG51	sivang, you put words into other people's mouths :P	18:14
sivang	MohammadAG51: hehe	18:14
MohammadAG51	i said he left, how could he now work for nokia	18:14
sivang	MohammadAG51: that's what we do, we're Isralies :-)	18:14
MohammadAG51	he left cause he was pissed at non-ree	18:14
sivang	MohammadAG51: ah okay	18:14
sivang	MohammadAG51: yes I can understand	18:14
MohammadAG51	non-free	18:14
MohammadAG51	GRRR	18:14
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, how do i disable this piece of shit again?	18:14
DocScrutinizer	which?	18:15
sivang	DocScrutinizer: take this as an example, it feels warm and welcoming: http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html	18:15
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MohammadAG51	loading the wiki to find the gconf line to do it is time consuming	18:15
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, long press	18:15
MohammadAG51	something symbian users like	18:15
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DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	18:15
sivang	DocScrutinizer: documentation is the first line in bringing in more community....:....-(	18:15
DocScrutinizer	gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/inputmethod/ext_kb_repeat_enabled --type boolean true	18:16
javispedro	the issue with documentation is that autogenerated documentation is usually NOT what I want.	18:16
mc_teo	MohammadAG51: they show up or play?	18:16
MohammadAG51	mc_teo, yes, though i used the cli dbus command	18:17
MohammadAG51	cba to use file manager	18:17
javispedro	autogenerated (usually) requires more to decide the function I'd like to use first	18:17
sivang	javispedro: the android docs seem to you like something autogenerated? :)	18:17
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javispedro	sivang: no, they're clearly not. More concerned about Maemo's ;)	18:17
sivang	javispedro: ah :)	18:17
javispedro	also check the Apple ones for good ones	18:17
javispedro	they do not start listing the functions of a class	18:18
MohammadAG51	and the Qt ones	18:18
javispedro	the start by listing the USES of the class	18:18
sivang	we have even a closer example	18:18
sivang	QT !	18:18
javispedro	IMHO the Qt ones could be a bit better	18:18
sivang	can't we get some QT documentor to start SERIOUSLY working on meego?	18:18
javispedro	but yes, they're very good when compared to everything we have here	18:18
sivang	javispedro: bettere than any other offering at that ecossytem	18:18
MohammadAG51	more examples would be great	18:18
sivang	the best	18:18
sivang	IMHO	18:18
MohammadAG51	but i like hem	18:18
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sivang	me too	18:18
MohammadAG51	i still consider myself a newbie to C++	18:18
DocScrutinizer	it all boils down to Nokia's "consumer device" mindset, though this is clearly marketed as a FOS device, which to me seems antinom	18:19
sivang	MohammadAG51: but sitll you can get along with the Qt docs?	18:19
MohammadAG51	yet i've rewritten py code to C++	18:19
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MohammadAG51	(with the help of people here of course)	18:19
MohammadAG51	yeah	18:19
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sivang	so, I'm a veteran developer, and I have embedded experience under my belt	18:19
sivang	still with what's on the meego wiki, I am not sure how to follow	18:19
sivang	maybe I'm stupid	18:19
sivang	and google's is your best friend,	18:20
Corsac	sivang: btw there are lists and irc channel for meego development	18:20
DocScrutinizer	in Nokia's dictionary consumer == closed&proprietary, so how are they going to produce a FOSS consumer device?	18:20
MohammadAG51	Maemo 6 won't be open	18:20
TiagoTiago	the pilot could have opted for an enhanced patdown	18:20
mc_teo	MohammadAG51: how?	18:21
DocScrutinizer	sivang: full ack	18:21
MohammadAG51	Maemo will never be open	18:21
MohammadAG51	MeeGo is	18:21
MohammadAG51	and MeeGo != Harmattan	18:21
* MohammadAG51 should study, bbl		18:21
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: we all know this (kind of saying)	18:21
achipa	and wiki != reference	18:21
DocScrutinizer	and reference == foundation of any project like meego	18:22
javispedro	IMHO Good wiki content could be good docs.	18:22
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javispedro	linking to even generated docs for more in-depth stuff.	18:22
sivang	I like how the andriod docs hae a drill down or a link to every term they use, like the qt one has	18:23
DocScrutinizer	and who's in charge of reference/specs? Nokia, when it comes to Nokia devices	18:23
javispedro	but the missing parts of generated docs, AKA "Topics: Drawing things to Screen. Sound & Video. Placing calls." could be put on a Wiki	18:23
javispedro	and updated generously	18:23
sivang	we need a documentation user story :)	18:23
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mgedmin	John is a user. He wants documentation.	18:24
javispedro	end of story	18:24
javispedro	hehehehe	18:24
sivang	would you guys be able to provide this input in meego-communty ML if I fire off a thread?	18:24
sivang	this is related to the fact I am trying to gather information for that talk of mine	18:24
sivang	my threads about documentation has been so far mostly, sort-of ignored :)	18:25
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Stskeeps	sivang: take a talk with townxelliot at some point and try to meet up with ronan maclaverty in dublin	18:25
sivang	Stskeeps: I will :)	18:25
sivang	Stskeeps: again I'm not bashing, I'm in true concern for the projct	18:25
sivang	I love them both, maemo and meego	18:25
Stskeeps	the best kind of concern	18:25
Stskeeps	:P	18:25
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sivang	hehe	18:26
sivang	Stskeeps: the road to hell is full of good concerns?	18:26
sivang	:)	18:26
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sivang	mgedmin: LOL	18:26
mc_teo`	MohammadAG51: how?	18:26
mc_teo`	whats the dbus command?	18:26
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TiagoTiago	Did Nokia really loose money on each N900 sale?	18:28
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kerio	"loose"?	18:28
kerio	dude	18:28
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Myrtti	TiagoTiago: how the hell would we know?	18:29
TiagoTiago	ok, "lost"	18:29
TiagoTiago	I dunno, i thought this type of thing leaked to the public, at least the type of public that frequents this channel	18:29
TiagoTiago	oh, wait,hm, i think loose was correct	18:30
DocScrutinizer	I am on the loose now	18:30
Stskeeps	this channel is really horribly void of any NDA discussions	18:30
Stskeeps	:P	18:30
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DocScrutinizer	Stskeeps: err? please rephrase	18:30
* javispedro is going to violate a hundred NDAs by saying the following:		18:30
javispedro	42	18:30
KaffeeJunky123	So I got my nokia n900 today, now where do I insert the sim card XD?	18:31
TiagoTiago	i'm not sure now, lol, somtimes little details of english grammar and stuff get mixed up in my head	18:31
kerio	no, goddammit	18:31
TiagoTiago	under the battery there is a metal thing you slide and flip open	18:31
kerio	loose is not right there	18:31
Stskeeps	DocScrutinizer: as in, people never (or rarely) leak anything here	18:31
DocScrutinizer	hmm, so who's to blame?	18:31
TiagoTiago	i didn't meant they leak it here, but that the leaks eventually reach people that come here	18:32
KaffeeJunky123	TiagoTiago: I guess I'll setup wlan first	18:32
TiagoTiago	suit yourself :)	18:32
Myrtti	TiagoTiago: and most people treat them as unsubstantiated leaks, and perhaps due to their NDA's decide not to spread them	18:32
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Myrtti	if not unsubstantiated, then rumours with no official backing	18:33
TiagoTiago	menwhile, check the manual just in case you guess how to do it slightly wrong and bend somthing or break a nail or whatever	18:33
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TiagoTiago	how many people have to have heard the rumour before people here feel confortable talking about it?	18:34
steinex	how to get kernel-power back after upgrade to PR1.3?	18:34
chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: willkommen in der welt der micro computer!	18:34
KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: Danke ^^	18:35
* javispedro sighs		18:35
javispedro	http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-maemo-4.7/qml-intro.html	18:35
javispedro	such nice EMPTY documentation.	18:35
DrWilken	steinex - reinstall it	18:35
chem\|st	steinex: titans is a downgrade at the moment... apart of ipv6 is there anything special in titans?	18:35
DocScrutinizer	steinex: I think I told you yesterday: you'll have to wait for a matching ipdate of powerkernel	18:36
javispedro	"The basic syntax of an element is: <empty>. We can implement this Rectangle this way: <empty>."	18:36
Myrtti	TiagoTiago: I personally don't trust any of these assholes without an official source backing them up ;-)	18:36
steinex	chem\|st: mobilehotspot - wifi tethering	18:36
steinex	DocScrutinizer: nope, that wasnt me :)	18:36
TiagoTiago	lol	18:37
Trewas	TiagoTiago: it doesn't sound plausible to me that nokia sold them at a loss, given that n900 was just as expensive as any other comparable cellphone	18:37
steinex	DocScrutinizer: but it would work?	18:37
DocScrutinizer	what? waiting?	18:37
Myrtti	(but I've got a background in Wikipedia stuff)	18:37
DocScrutinizer	depends	18:37
DrWilken	Is there a list of changes to the Maemo kernel available somewhere?	18:37
Myrtti	{citation needed}	18:37
chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: before you setup anything but wifi make sure to upgrade to latest firmware (some programs have conflicting dependencies to the upgrade from yesterday)	18:38
TiagoTiago	I've read a few times that Nokia didn't put so much effort on the N900 as they were expected to because they sold it at a loss and didn't expect it to be such a success	18:38
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: brilliant	18:38
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chem\|st	steinex: I have only one aditional wifi device and thats prepared for ad-hoc...	18:38
Myrtti	TiagoTiago: and I'd question their sources and check if the articles are referring to each other	18:38
chem\|st	s/aditional/additional/	18:39
infobot	chem\|st meant: steinex: I have only one additional wifi device and thats prepared for ad-hoc...	18:39
mc_teo`	oh youve got the sed bot?	18:39
TiagoTiago	i see	18:39
mc_teo`	who's is it	18:39
javispedro	TiagoTiago: sold a $600 device at a loss?????????????'	18:39
chem\|st	~sed	18:39
infobot	methinks sed is the GNU Stream Editor. URL: ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/ MANPAGE:http://www.gnu.org/software/sed/manual/	18:39
Myrtti	once upon a time Skype did sed too	18:40
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KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: it's a used device, maybe it's better to reinstall maemo completly	18:40
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TiagoTiago	yeah, because the hardware they put in it was too expensive already, mostly meant just for testing and stuff	18:40
DocScrutinizer	~tell chem\|st about query	18:40
chem\|st	KaffeeJunky123: yeah maybe you need	18:40
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javispedro	expensive... hardware???	18:40
KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: I found that midnight commander is installed, no Idea what else could be installed	18:40
DocScrutinizer	~tell mc_teo` about query	18:40
chem\|st	~tell KaffeeJunky123 about flashing	18:40
Myrtti	TiagoTiago: do you know how much Aava device is sold for at the moment?	18:40
DrWilken	Could someone using the stock kernel do an uname -a for me	18:40
TiagoTiago	no idea	18:41
javispedro	~tell infobot about infobot	18:41
KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: and there are onl 1.6gb left for applications, so either its a strange partition setup or there are loads of programms installed	18:41
mc_teo`	s/sed/heh/; s/other/stuff	18:41
KaffeeJunky123	chem\|st: thansk for that info page	18:41
mc_teo`	"docscrutinizer wants you to know: talk dirty to me!"	18:41
mc_teo`	lolol	18:41
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TiagoTiago	lol	18:42
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merlin1991	hm I wonder if this works	18:42
merlin1991	~the answer to life, the universe and everything	18:42
Myrtti	TiagoTiago: "At €1900 (roughly $2393) per unit, the dev handset isn't exactly cheap..."	18:42
merlin1991	where's my 42?	18:42
javispedro	where's my free aava device?	18:43
javispedro	I could make with some x86.	18:43
mc_teo`	~tell mc_teo` about the answer to life, the universe and everything	18:43
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DocScrutinizer	~tell mc_teo` about 42	18:43
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merlin1991	~42	18:44
infobot	i guess 42 is the answer to life the universe and everything, see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/the_answer_to_life,_the_universe,_and_everything	18:44
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TiagoTiago	that is also the number of minutes a trip on a gravity train from anywhere to anywhere (on Earth) would take	18:44
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mc_teo`	~lol	18:46
infobot	somebody said lol was stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.	18:46
mc_teo`	heh	18:46
Myrtti	are you done with the bot now?	18:47
DocScrutinizer	again	18:47
DocScrutinizer	~tell mc_teo` about query	18:47
mc_teo`	i am	18:47
mc_teo`	just it was funny	18:47
sivang	~alot	18:47
infobot	well, alot is raping the English language, or http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html	18:47
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DocScrutinizer	WTF?	18:48
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		18:48
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mc_teo`	~can you solve my problem about .flv files not showing up in my media player?	18:48
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q infobot!@		18:49
sivang	hehe	18:49
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Myrtti	srsly	18:49
DocScrutinizer	mc_teo`: stop that BS!	18:49
mc_teo`	what bs?	18:49
mc_teo`	in the query window? or here?	18:50
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DocScrutinizer	HERE	18:50
mc_teo`	i asked two things	18:50
TiagoTiago	Does anyone else got green vignetting with the face camera?	18:50
MohammadAG51	sigh, you quiet the person, not the bot	18:50
DocScrutinizer	and probably in query as well, as you obviously got NFC	18:50
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mc_teo`	sorry for thinking you had a sense of humour	18:51
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		18:51
DocScrutinizer	mc_teo`: /join ##humour	18:51
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MohammadAG51	calm down kids :P	18:51
mc_teo`	rage quit tiem	18:52
* MohammadAG51 wants to port 2.6.35 to maemo 5		18:52
GAN900	MohammadAG51, that'd be nice.	18:52
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MohammadAG51	if bme dies, we rip the meego one	18:53
MohammadAG51	if mce dies, we... panic and rewrite an open source one	18:53
sivang	hehe	18:53
sivang	MohammadAG51: is there explenations what they are on maemo wiki ? those names continue to confuse me everytime	18:54
GAN900	"We're open sourcing DSME!"	18:54
sivang	MohammadAG51: but the dsme ...	18:54
MohammadAG51	and if 2.6.35 fairs well, we have vsync	18:54
sivang	GAN900: they sort of did	18:54
MohammadAG51	dsme?	18:54
DocScrutinizer	could you start rewriting mce foss anyway, please. Friggin piece o' sh...	18:54
javispedro	MohammadAG51: vsync is not a kernel-only thing	18:54
MohammadAG51	pull the plug	18:54
jacekowski	dsme is open source	18:54
MohammadAG51	javispedro, driver	18:55
jacekowski	i mean, old version	18:55
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jacekowski	latest version isn't	18:55
sivang	jacekowski: ah, the one for meego?	18:55
MohammadAG51	javispedro, meego has vsync, not exactly stable, but still	18:55
jacekowski	but it's compatible	18:55
jacekowski	ish	18:55
sivang	dsme == vsync?	18:55
javispedro	MohammadAG51: nope. Nokia would have fixed it if it was so simple, it's not like they haven't upgrded the SGX driver in every PR release so far	18:55
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* MohammadAG51 facepalms		18:55
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MohammadAG51	javispedro, it needs a new kernel, and a new driver	18:55
javispedro	MohammadAG51: it requires changes in the entire pipeline, from the kernel right down to individual apps	18:55
javispedro	apps/toolkits, ofc.	18:56
MohammadAG51	wait, so why does libhildon work better on a pc?	18:56
* DocScrutinizer burps		18:56
TiagoTiago	lol	18:56
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javispedro	MohammadAG51: it works better on a PC?	18:56
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MohammadAG51	a lot less tearing on my pc, and the SDK isn't graphically accelerated	18:56
javispedro	I have a lot of tearing on mine, and it is graphically accelerated.	18:57
MohammadAG51	even my old laptop, which was 1.7GHz (clocked at 600MHz)	18:57
TiagoTiago	perhaps the graphical acceeration is what is causing the tearing?	18:57
MohammadAG51	javispedro, the sdk isn't accelerated	18:57
javispedro	MohammadAG51: mine is. http://depot.javispedro.com/vmgl/	18:57
MohammadAG51	TiagoTiago, yeah sure, install Mer and find out	18:57
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TiagoTiago	isn't that a whole different thing?	18:58
caotic	so, ovi backups for the n900 dont restore application lists ?	18:58
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DocScrutinizer	caotic: should	18:58
MohammadAG51	javispedro, oh, nice	18:58
DocScrutinizer	err ovi??	18:58
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TiagoTiago	brb, i'll see if lunch is ready	18:58
GAN900	sivang, except they gutted it first	18:59
GAN900	moved all of the relevant stuff to MCE.	18:59
caotic	DocScrutinizer: ovi suite as well than pc suite ?	18:59
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TiagoTiago	not yet :/	18:59
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TiagoTiago	but soon :)	18:59
macmaN	just posted a question/some thoughts about LUKS on N900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=853744 perhaps some of you smart peeps over here would also like to chirp in	19:00
javispedro	my old workstation was so underpowered that not having acceleration made it unusable ,P	19:00
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javispedro	bbl	19:00
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caotic	I just updated the firmware on my n900, and after going to the hole process ( that includes a restore) I dont have my applications installed, only contacts, pictures, and standar phone settings, I didnt made an internal (n900) backup since I thought the ovi suite will back up everything, (ovi suite != pc suite)	19:01
sivang	GAN900: hmm, so they took out the good parts to still keep them concealed?	19:01
sivang	GAN900: was that what you were implying with 'gutted' </not-native-speaker>	19:01
sivang	removing the gut, though makes sense :)	19:02
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mgedmin	gutted = eviscerated	19:02
caotic	also ovi suite doesnt seem to have sms sincronization	19:02
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caotic	I am scared of what I may have done :(	19:02
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caotic	also Im accounts seems lost	19:03
TiagoTiago	:(	19:03
TiagoTiago	The stuff sayiung what type of backup keeps what data safe is not very good, specially with the N900 :(	19:05
DocScrutinizer	what is ovi suite?	19:05
TiagoTiago	lunch's ready, brb	19:05
TiagoTiago	its the new pc suite	19:06
TiagoTiago	alright, i'm gone	19:06
merlin1991	caotic, if you backed up im accounts, they happen to magically reappear as soon as you sintall the protocol plugins gain	19:06
merlin1991	they did for me at least :)	19:06
caotic	DocScrutinizer: ovi suite the new pc suite, (actually pc suite didnt let me apply the firmware upgrade with pc suite)	19:07
caotic	err: pc suite told me to upgrade to ovi suite	19:08
caotic	to apply the upgrade	19:08
DocScrutinizer	hmm, I heard this suite needs stuff from Redmond, so never touched it	19:08
Mece	what's redmond?	19:09
caotic	DocScrutinizer: yeah, well I didnt wanted to take risks with user error while upgrading my firmware	19:10
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caotic	DocScrutinizer: perhaps the other way was safer	19:10
caotic	Mece: microsoft	19:10
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dneary	Am I the only one really happy about http://bugs.maemo.org/7107	19:11
dneary	?	19:11
DocScrutinizer	bug 7107	19:11
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7107 Add http://bugs.maemo.org/[bug-id] redirection	19:11
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DocScrutinizer	obviously not even povbot cares :-P	19:12
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DocScrutinizer	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7107	19:12
povbot	Bug 7107: Add http://bugs.maemo.org/[bug-id] redirection	19:12
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mgedmin	do those aliases work now?	19:12
DocScrutinizer	http://bugs.maemo.org/7107	19:12
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sivang	well, nice to have	19:13
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mgedmin	so, who wants to patch supybot's Bugzilla plugin to know about shortened urls?	19:14
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DocScrutinizer	hehehe	19:14
sivang	hrm	19:14
mgedmin	because the only config option for that is "url", and it's already set to "https://bugs.maemo.org/"	19:14
dneary	mgedmin, Where's the source?	19:14
TiagoTiago	gah, i hate my router doesn't allow static IPs and fucks up DNS lookup :(	19:14
mgedmin	google knows, I forgot	19:14
mgedmin	bzr://bzr.everythingsolved.com/supybot/Bugzilla/	19:15
DocScrutinizer	https://bugs.maemo.org/7107	19:15
mgedmin	do I dare run 'bzr update' there?	19:15
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sivang	bug 7107	19:15
sivang	bug #7107	19:15
dneary	sivang, What did you break? :)	19:16
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: used up, guard time needs to expire	19:16
MohammadAG51	it probably ignored a dupe	19:16
MohammadAG51	bug 1	19:16
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1 test - ignore it	19:16
MohammadAG51	etc	19:17
DocScrutinizer	bug 1	19:17
DocScrutinizer	QED	19:17
MohammadAG51	indeed	19:17
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DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	19:18
infobot	aw, gee, DocScrutinizer	19:18
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crashanddie	mgedmin, "Service Temporarily Unavailable"	19:19
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sivang	~botsnack	19:22
infobot	sivang: thanks	19:22
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sivang	it is a female right?	19:22
sivang	~botsnack	19:23
infobot	sivang: aw, gee	19:23
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sivang	;)	19:23
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McFlurrey	hi :)	19:25
DocScrutinizer	sivang: yes, usually she's female (~attack), but sometimes seems to forget (~rape)	19:26
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DocScrutinizer	hi	19:27
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McFlurrey	does anyone have an idea how i could send an sms via shell on maemo?	19:28
dneary	McFlurrey, I'm sure the answer to that question is yes.	19:28
dneary	(sorry not to be more helpful)	19:28
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McFlurrey	i guess ;)	19:29
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McFlurrey	but id be verrry happy if that someone who has that idea could tell me how to do it :P	19:29
dneary	McFlurrey, slightly less unhelpfully: you should be able to do it over dbus	19:29
dneary	http://tpsession.garage.maemo.org/MaemoTelepathy.html	19:30
dneary	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control	19:30
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McFlurrey	hmmmm thanks	19:31
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dneary	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=438487&postcount=14	19:32
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dneary	http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=444572&postcount=19 <- Python code	19:32
McFlurrey	ugh .. very hackish x/	19:32
McFlurrey	but thanks !	19:33
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dneary	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS	19:33
sivang	McFlurrey: hacks is what we live for :)	19:33
* SpeedEvil lives for bacon.		19:33
kerio	BACON!	19:34
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SpeedEvil	Especially with fried apples.	19:34
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McFlurrey	toastt	19:34
McFlurrey	sick :D thx. thats more usefull for me	19:35
mgedmin	bug 1	19:35
McFlurrey	cuddle	19:35
Venemo	MohammadAG51: ping	19:35
mgedmin	oh no please don't cache	19:35
mgedmin	bug 2	19:35
MohammadAG51	pong	19:36
KaffeeJunky123	is the global bin from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php for europeens?	19:36
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: you killed it!!!11!!	19:36
mgedmin	NonExistentRegistryEntry: short_url is not a valid entry in supybot.plugins.Bugzilla.bugzillas.bmo	19:36
mgedmin	how do I bloody declare available config options for bloody supybot plugins?	19:36
mgedmin	the 'url' was not declared anywhere in the source	19:36
mgedmin	oh, it was, just not in config.py	19:37
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vnepo	hey	19:38
vnepo	anyone do dual boot yet?	19:38
* MohammadAG51 sighs at overhyped dualboot		19:39
* SpeedEvil wants dualboot.		19:40
jpinx-eeepc	wtf would anyone dual boot ?? A vm I might understand...	19:40
SpeedEvil	I want green slip-on ones, made of rubber, size 10.5UK	19:40
SpeedEvil	My existing pair split. :/	19:40
SpeedEvil	http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dunlop-Unisex-Gardening-Clog-Wellington-Shoes-UK-3-11-/250654806463?pt=UK_Clothing_Menswear_MensShoes_GL&var=&hash=item800f0a4f62 _much_ more useful than a VM.	19:41
KaffeeJunky123	MohammadAG51: can't you just install a bootloader and boot stuff?	19:41
MohammadAG51	KaffeeJunky123, yes, but a small 1.3 kexec patch to the kernel was overhyped	19:42
MohammadAG51	people think it's a new hidden magical bootloader	19:42
* DocScrutinizer wants snowboot		19:42
mgedmin	bug 1	19:42
povbot	Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/1 test - ignore it	19:42
* MohammadAG51 wants to make a lite, no-X OS for recovery purposes only		19:42
mgedmin	yay	19:42
* mgedmin hates supybot		19:42
MohammadAG51	cool	19:43
vnepo	ok	19:43
MohammadAG51	err	19:43
MohammadAG51	http://bugs.maemo.org/2	19:43
DocScrutinizer	https://bugs.maemo.org/7107	19:43
MohammadAG51	meh, nvm	19:43
KaffeeJunky123	MohammadAG51: how about not starting X, you just have to edit some config files	19:43
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KaffeeJunky123	MohammadAG51: or boot scripts	19:43
MohammadAG51	KaffeeJunky123, not useful as a recovery system	19:43
MohammadAG51	ideally, the recovery OS would allow ssh over usb, and would have a working busybox	19:44
MohammadAG51	or a bash shell	19:44
ruskie	ssh over usb or any openned wifi	19:44
sivang	dneary: valuable resources you pasted here	19:44
dneary	sivang, Thanks!	19:45
sivang	dneary: worth a couple of good expansive beers	19:45
sivang	:)	19:45
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd	19:45
dneary	There's a lot of useful information in the wiki ;)	19:45
sivang	yes, there is , I like the Mameo wiki	19:45
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, it's meh	19:45
sivang	who did the development guide btw?	19:45
DocScrutinizer	yes, but it's a start	19:45
dneary	It could be better organised, but as wikis go, it ain't bad	19:45
MohammadAG51	kb doesn't work properly	19:45
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MohammadAG51	source is shit to get	19:45
dneary	sivang, Nokia	19:45
dneary	Mostly Jarmo & his team	19:45
dneary	sivang, Why?	19:46
MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, you can't type numbers	19:46
sivang	dneary: we need them to go over to wiki.meego.com :)	19:46
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TiagoTiago	They should make a postapocaliptic movie were a guy has a refurbished N900 wrist mounted and a small army of robots	19:46
sivang	dneary: do the same	19:46
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dneary	sivang, That was migrated from a LaTeX source	19:46
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MohammadAG51	DocScrutinizer, and you need to have a pc	19:46
sivang	dneary: I see	19:46
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dneary	sivang, The Nokia documentation team unfortunately never engaged with me aout using the wiki	19:46
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG51: I know	19:46
sivang	dneary: for meego you mean?	19:47
vnepo	you guys notice anything better on 1.3	19:48
ruskie	vnepo, well seems to be a bit more responsive	19:48
sivang	dneary: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide -> migrated from latex?	19:48
ruskie	MohammadAG51, we need a better keymap built into the kernel... that can handle all the keys properly	19:48
TiagoTiago	one thing that is clearly better with pr1.3 is there is no more waiting for pr1.3	19:48
sivang	anyway	19:48
sivang	I've left, cheers all	19:48
vnepo	hehe	19:48
MohammadAG51	ruskie, i need a better meego.gitorious.org	19:49
KaffeeJunky123	I've some questions about flashing an n900, what is the eMMc images and what is the FIASCO image?	19:49
dneary	Yes	19:50
KaffeeJunky123	Should I first flash the PR1.3 thing and the eMMc directly afterwards?	19:50
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dneary	sivang, Almost everything under /Documentation was migrated from latex	19:50
ruskie	are there any more recent demos for meego for phones?	19:50
dneary	sivang, Jarmo insisted that high quality print documentation was a requirement. I disagreed with him :)	19:50
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SpeedEvil	...	19:51
SpeedEvil	Print documentation.	19:52
SpeedEvil	You mean like written on parchment, or whatever they used to do in prehistory?	19:52
SpeedEvil	How can you grep that?	19:52
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mgedmin	https://bugs.maemo.org/1	19:54
povbot	Bug 1: test - ignore it	19:54
mgedmin	yay!	19:54
MohammadAG51	mgedmin++	19:54
jacktheripper	is it possible to fool an application into portrait ?	19:55
jacktheripper	it's a pre application actually, running through preenv	19:55
ruskie	gah I see meego still hase the 'droid like UX... guess I'll stick to m5	19:56
vnepo	you don't like meego?	19:56
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ruskie	the ux no	19:56
vnepo	yea	19:56
ruskie	it's a ripoff of the android one	19:56
ruskie	which I don't like as well	19:56
ruskie	I didn't get the n900 to be a fancy smartphone...	19:57
ruskie	for me it's primary role is a computer	19:57
ruskie	a phone ux does not lend itself to that	19:57
vnepo	yea i see what you mean	19:57
ruskie	don't get me wrong... for someone like my mom meego would be great... or for some of the ppl I know...	19:58
ruskie	but hopefully there'll be alternatives	19:58
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vnepo	yea i know i like maemo but you can theme meego from the screenshots i saw so it should be ok	19:59
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GAN900	sivang, yes.	20:00
GAN900	sivang, they moved all of the useful code to mce, which basically made opening dsme pointless.	20:01
ruskie	vnepo, theming will not change the feel	20:01
ruskie	a full replacement of the WM on the other hand would... but still the apps would behave the same	20:02
vnepo	yea well its ok	20:02
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GAN900	Android PlayStation phone	20:09
GAN900	How depressing	20:09
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ruskie	GAN900, seriously?	20:12
MohammadAG	android?	20:12
MohammadAG	playstation?	20:12
MohammadAG	LOL	20:12
vnepo	i saw that lol	20:12
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vnepo	engadget	20:12
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GAN900	ruskie, yes.	20:15
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lardman	night chaps	20:18
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Noobmonk3y	hmmm QT creator no-longer connects to my n900 after flashing............	20:22
Noobmonk3y	(SSH + Madde installed)	20:22
MohammadAG	static IP?	20:22
MohammadAG	and use gitorious! :P	20:22
Noobmonk3y	same ip as b4	20:22
Noobmonk3y	when they allow me to upload after creating the project i will!	20:23
MohammadAG	hmm?	20:24
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: because after reflash, it forgot your SSH key, maybe	20:25
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orospakr	I'm looking for documentation describing the functionality of the dual-boot feature in PR1.3, since I'm keen to look at some Meego dev builds. Alas, I am not having any luck finding it.	20:27
Venemo	orospakr: maybe the guys at #meego may be of better help	20:29
orospakr	fair enough. :)	20:29
jacekowski	orospakr: there is no dualboot in pr1.3	20:29
Venemo	orospakr: also look at http://thehandheldblog.com/2010/10/27/demo-the-n900-dual-booting-maemo-meego/	20:29
jacekowski	orospakr: it's just kexec support	20:29
Venemo	orospakr: this stuff is in no way related to PR 1.3 afaik btw	20:29
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orospakr	ahh, I see.	20:30
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lcuk	dual boot prototype instructions: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/U-Boot_from_scratch	20:31
Noobmonk3y	Venemo: i reset the developer password	20:31
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: did you also set up USB networking both on your PC and your N900?	20:32
lcuk	\o Noobmonk3y	20:32
Noobmonk3y	but surely it would give me a user or password error?	20:32
Noobmonk3y	venemo, using wifi	20:32
Noobmonk3y	hey lcuky	20:32
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guille_	hi	20:33
guille_	Does anyone have managed to get PyQt4.QtMedia.	20:33
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guille_	sorry, to play sound? QAudioDeviceInfo.availableDevices(`output') is empty and i've seen a bug ticket about it.	20:34
guille_	(it seems they could make it work from c++, is it a well known bindings' issue or am i missing something?)	20:36
Venemo	Noobmonk3y: hm, I dunno then	20:37
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Venemo	Noobmonk3y: is SSH installed on the device correctly?	20:37
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RST38h	lcuk: Do you still need to flash custom kernel in PR1.3?	20:38
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mgedmin	Noobmonk3y, and what error does it give you now?	20:39
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Noobmonk3y	sry back	20:41
* DocScrutinizer aims MTHELs at creator of PR1.3-dualboot nonsense		20:41
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Noobmonk3y	Venemo: hmmmm how do i check it is installed correctly, rather then just installed? (I did do an apt-get install (ssh and madde) --reinstall)	20:42
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: fire up PuTTY and ssh in ?	20:42
Noobmonk3y	mgedmin: Device configuration test failed:	20:43
Noobmonk3y	Could not connect to host.	20:43
MohammadAG	try PuTTY, as DocScrutinizer suggested	20:43
Noobmonk3y	aghhhhhhhh	20:43
Noobmonk3y	winscp cant connect as developer	20:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, MeeGo blog :P	20:43
Noobmonk3y	hmm, can i recreate the developer user?	20:43
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n900-dk	Does update by Ovi Suite work as flasing the device?	20:46
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, did you install MADDE on the device?	20:46
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Noobmonk3y	tis still on there	20:47
Noobmonk3y	and i --reinstalled it	20:47
MohammadAG	hmm	20:47
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: you need to know 1) which user on your originating PC is trying to connect to N900 2) by using which user name for N900 if any different 3) what's the sshkey used - then create a user on N900 according to the username used on PC for the ssh session, and copy over pubkey from PC to N900 as usual	20:48
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I wonder if the /home/developer directory is there, but no actual user	20:48
Noobmonk3y	1) yes, 2) yes, 3) no ssh (doesnt work on qtcreator in this way, tis documented)	20:48
Noobmonk3y	will uninstall madde, and reinstall	20:49
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I got NFC what this whole MADDE thing looks like, and whether it logs in to N900 by ssh user@n900 or root@n900 or developer@n900 or yourAccountName@n900	20:50
MohammadAG	it creates a new user	20:50
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: developer@n900	20:50
Noobmonk3y	in my case	20:50
DocScrutinizer	so go ahead do that	20:50
Noobmonk3y	trying but it aint working	20:50
MohammadAG	called developer, then it scps over a deb, then installs that deb into /usr/local/bin	20:50
Noobmonk3y	hence my last question	20:50
Noobmonk3y	hmm, can i recreate the developer user?	20:50
Noobmonk3y	^^	20:50
DocScrutinizer	the create /home/developer/.ssh	20:51
MohammadAG	yes, useradd	20:51
Noobmonk3y	thanks Mo	20:51
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, chances are, the user isn't there, only the homedir	20:51
DocScrutinizer	and move your sshkey to authorized_keys there	20:51
Noobmonk3y	ok, well that is already created	20:51
Noobmonk3y	bah	20:51
Noobmonk3y	and still not using keys	20:51
Noobmonk3y	using a password DocScrutinizer	20:51
n900-dk	hmm, now with communication error and no network connections after PR13 update :/	20:51
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y,	20:52
MohammadAG	uninstall mad-developer	20:52
Noobmonk3y	doing it now :p	20:52
MohammadAG	userdel developer	20:52
MohammadAG	rm -rf /home/developer	20:52
MohammadAG	then reinstall it, and start from there	20:52
Noobmonk3y	thanks Mo :)	20:52
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MohammadAG	test on my device:	20:53
MohammadAG	Device configuration test failed:	20:53
MohammadAG	Could not connect to host.	20:53
DocScrutinizer	Noobmonk3y: anyway if you're using password then you might want to do >>root; passwd developer<<	20:54
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: i did ;)	20:54
Noobmonk3y	hehehe	20:54
Noobmonk3y	thankyou for trying though :)	20:54
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DocScrutinizer	try connecting to developer@n900 !	20:55
Noobmonk3y	DocScrutinizer: i am ;)	20:55
MohammadAG	Device configuration successful.	20:56
MohammadAG	Hardware architecture: armv7l	20:56
Noobmonk3y	lol	20:56
MohammadAG	fixed it, ha!	20:56
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Noobmonk3y	thankyou DocScrutinizer / MohammadAG all working now :)	20:58
DocScrutinizer	\o/	20:59
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* DocScrutinizer stops trying to create a syslog line for >ssh idiot@n900<		21:00
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Noobmonk3y	lol	21:00
crashanddie	GAN900 & timeless: you guys tried firesheep on osx?	21:02
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mece	gaddamn kde!	21:04
mece	grr	21:04
* mece is done. Installing gnome distro.		21:04
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MohammadAG	gnome ftw	21:04
mece	yep.	21:04
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mece	I had such an ancient distro that I needed an upgrade. people kept saying yay kde is super.	21:05
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mece	but it went from everything just works to nothing just works.	21:05
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GAN900	crashanddie, no.	21:07
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ZogG	MohammadAG xfce4 > gnome	21:13
jacekowski	kde > xfce4+gnome	21:13
ZogG	anytgibd >kde	21:13
ZogG	anything*	21:13
ZogG	kde is such a mess	21:13
ZogG	let's leave it that it's a such mess	21:14
FauxFaux	Aero. \o/	21:14
* MohammadAG pukes		21:14
ZogG	seriously what people like about that bright shinny peice of ...	21:14
ZogG	all dependies	21:14
ZogG	you want a wallpaper - you need kde-libs	21:15
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BugBlue	kmail is the only functional not sucky GUI mailclient	21:15
ZogG	you want to open txt file - you need kde-lib	21:15
ZogG	you want to drink a glass of water you need kdelib	21:15
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ZogG	BugBlue claws ?	21:15
ZogG	MohammadAG, show me your screenies	21:16
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ZogG	FauxFaux and aero is like old websites, with a huge mass of unwanetd and not functional, useless pretty things ( i don'ty find anything pretty actually about all those round coners and transperenty)	21:17
* ZogG is on the path of holywar		21:17
BugBlue	ZogG: threaded 'background' imap support?	21:17
Aranel	Anyone know a guide to resize partitions (/home/user to precise) on N900? 2gb is not enough for preenv :\|	21:17
kerio	xfce ftw	21:17
ZogG	Aranel, ?	21:17
kerio	xfce+rox-filer ran great on my old debian box	21:18
ZogG	Aranel just make folder and symlink it	21:18
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ZogG	kerio i use xfce4 as it is	21:18
kerio	it had a REALLY bad file browser at the time	21:18
Aranel	ZogG: but chmod +x is not working on MyDocs? It doesn't execute anything. Resizing /home/user to 4gb would be great.	21:19
MohammadAG	ZogG, http://i52.tinypic.com/2ury3jd.jpg :P	21:19
chem\|st	kerio: rxvt...	21:19
* MohammadAG would symlink datafiles to MyDocs		21:19
MohammadAG	keep the executable in /home/user	21:19
Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmmmmmm qt layouts are a real pain in the ass!	21:20
ZogG	MohammadAG netbook? and why it's so default gnome?	21:20
chem\|st	Aranel: MyDocs is vfat and does not know anything about attributes	21:20
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MohammadAG	ZogG, no, i5 laptop	21:20
ZogG	all those temp values and all other stuff is not needed	21:20
ZogG	MohammadAG i5? damn - where do you get money man =)	21:20
RST38h	woooohooo, another "I am switching from n900 to android" post!	21:20
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kerio	:(	21:21
ZogG	MohammadAG anyway but it's too small on my home screen	21:21
* Noobmonk3y has an i5 tablet pc infront of me atm lol - it aint that great		21:21
ZogG	i have due core laptop	21:21
ZogG	and Q6600 desctop	21:21
ZogG	desktopp	21:21
ZogG	DAMN	21:21
kerio	nokia dun goofed	21:21
ZogG	desktop*	21:21
Noobmonk3y	:)	21:21
RST38h	dual	21:21
Noobmonk3y	kerio: no bacon in the update :(	21:21
ZogG	and i have arm phone btw =)	21:21
RST38h	an armphone	21:21
MohammadAG	ZogG, it was cheap, bought it from Jordan :P	21:22
* RST38h feels like a grammar nazi tonight, for a change		21:22
MohammadAG	was even cheaper than all other lappies, which felt kinda weird	21:22
ZogG	RST38h i dyslectic and russian, so suck mine huge ....	21:23
ZogG	=*	21:23
Aranel	chem\|st: looks like It doesn't allow me to execute binaries there too.	21:23
ZogG	MohammadAG hmm, maybe you buy me stuff Jordan Jordan???	21:24
RST38h	ehhehehe	21:24
ZogG	Aranel than use SD card with ext2	21:24
Aranel	MohammadAG: so you didn't repartition your device? Is it because it's not possible/no one knows to do that or another reason?	21:24
Aranel	ZogG: tried on my MMC card, didnt work too.	21:24
MohammadAG	Aranel, my /home is 3GBs	21:25
ZogG	RST38h is it really snowing now in mama russia?	21:25
* MohammadAG used sed on the vanilla image		21:25
Aranel	MohammadAG: how did you that -	21:25
ZogG	Aranel did you formay it too ext2?	21:25
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RST38h	ZogG: Nah. Raining here, in the Little Mordor	21:25
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MohammadAG	sed -i s/2048/3072/g vanillaimage.bin	21:25
ZogG	RST38h there is snow in moscow	21:25
Aranel	MohammadAG: d'oh, reflashing :\| I would prefer trying it without reflash first.	21:25
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RST38h	ZogG: Not where I am	21:25
RST38h	There is green grass though	21:26
* ZogG printed MohammadAG screenshot and put it on wall		21:26
MohammadAG	Aranel, cfdisk, I'm not an expert	21:26
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Aranel	ZogG: dunno if it's ext or vfat, is it possible to check it?	21:27
ZogG	Aranel did you format sd card to ext2???????????	21:27
ZogG	Aranel fdisk -l	21:27
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ZogG	Aranel, do you have laptop with sd card reader?	21:27
Aranel	ZogG: ~sh: fdisk: not found , nope I don't have one.	21:28
ZogG	as in maemo there is cfdsk or how is it call and it's not that simple as fdisk	21:28
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Myrtti	how about "mount"	21:29
ZogG	Myrtti, right	21:29
Myrtti	to state the obvious...	21:29
Aranel	MohammadAG: how about this: http://sumoudou.org/%E7%9B%B8%E6%92%B2%E5%A4%96%EF%BC%9ARepartition%20the%20Nokia%20N900.html	21:29
Myrtti	if we were talking about checking the filesystem	21:30
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ZogG	Aranel do not change your partition you end up bricking and flashing device	21:30
Aranel	MohammadAG: sorry for the messed up link, It has kinda weird japanese/chinese (i guess?) characters.	21:30
ZogG	if you don't know what you are doing	21:30
ZogG	Aranel just use mount command to check	21:31
MohammadAG	Aranel, sfdisk should also work, I use cfdisk since it has a UI (sorta)	21:31
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Aranel	ZogG: :\| I know that It's not a great idea to mess up with partition tables, but I don't have enough space to install new apps or pre games on it. MyDocs is sitting there with lots of empty space.	21:31
johnsq	Hi	21:32
Aranel	ZogG: here's my sfdisk -l http://pastebin.com/ix4YuNSC	21:32
Myrtti	minimalism ftw, uninstall unused old ones...	21:32
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ZogG	Aranel, /dev/mmcblk1p2	21:33
Aranel	In fact my filesystem is acting weird, I don't see any errors on dmesg output, anyway according to Storage Usage I'm using 1.6 GB, but df -h says I have 100~ megabytes, I cannot free up space :\|	21:33
ZogG	MWHAHAH	21:34
Aranel	ZogG: one of them is Android, other one is for general use.	21:34
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ZogG	Aranel android one is ext2 i think	21:34
ZogG	Aranel pastebin mount	21:34
Aranel	ZogG: http://pastebin.com/aDrFxxJs	21:35
ZogG	Aranel, go to /media/mmc1	21:36
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Noobmonk3y	wb lcuky	21:36
ZogG	Aranel, mkdir /home/user/MyDocs/temp && cp /media/mmc1* /home/user/MyDocs/temp	21:36
Aranel	ZogG: I don't have anything valuable there. skipping this step?	21:37
ZogG	umount /media/mmc1 && mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk1p1	21:37
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ZogG	Aranel photos are going there by default	21:37
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Aranel	ZogG: I changed it lately and moved them to built-in memory.	21:38
Aranel	ok now doing the second step.	21:38
ZogG	Aranel umount /media/mmc1 && mkfs.ext2 /dev/mmcblk1p1	21:38
Aranel	ZogG: umount: cannot umount /media/mmc1: Device or resource busy	21:39
Aranel	ZogG: oops. ok corrected =)	21:39
ZogG	Aranel you have it opened somewhere	21:40
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ZogG	cd ..	21:40
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Aranel	ZogG: done, looks like successful: http://pastebin.com/bvLGSr6V	21:41
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ZogG	Aranel now mount it	21:42
Aranel	ZogG: off-topic question: does kernel-power work on PR1.3? I need it to forcefsck /home/ partition (and rootfs too if possible)	21:42
ZogG	Aranel, better you change the rules to automount it to /media/	21:42
ZogG	Aranel never OC device =)	21:43
Aranel	ZogG: how can I mount/change the rules?	21:43
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: I bet yur missing-free-space problems are caused by fubar apps that don't adhere to ~optification	21:43
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Aranel	ZogG: nope, I would never OC mine, I want it for its forcefsck feature which is not implemented by default.	21:43
ZogG	Aranel mount /dev/name-device /some/foler/to/mount/to	21:43
ZogG	DocScrutinizer fubar?	21:44
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: the question is "does PR1.3 run on power-kernel"	21:44
Aranel	ZogG: mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 failed: Invalid argument	21:44
DocScrutinizer	~fubar	21:44
infobot	fubar is F*cked Up Beyond Any Recognition, e.g. "This whole operation is fubar, soldier" (gay lisp included), or a bar addon like Titan Panel and Telo's InfoBar. and everything.	21:44
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: the answer probably is "running PR1.3 on a PR1.2 based power-kernel isn't going to end happy"	21:45
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: I got enough rootfs space (80 megabytes atm) because I symlinked microb, nokia-maps and locale folders, problem is, storage usage reports 1.6gb in use on /home/user but I only have 100~ free.	21:45
ZogG	Aranel mkdir /home/user/games && mount /dev/mmcblk1p1 /home/user/games -t ext2	21:46
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: then some of your apps didn't follow rules of ~optification	21:47
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DocScrutinizer	~optification	21:47
infobot	it has been said that optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3	21:47
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: Isn't optification about creating symlinks on rootfs to /opt/ ?	21:47
DocScrutinizer	notice the "_and_MyDocs" part in first URL	21:47
Aranel	ZogG: done and now I can see it on File Manager ^^	21:48
Aranel	ZogG: how can I make it auto-mount now? fstab?	21:48
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DocScrutinizer	Aranel: yes, but also about creating symlinks to MyDocs for huge amounts of data, like textures/maps/other-random-non-ELF stuff	21:48
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: I understand your point, but If Storage Usage is not mistaken (It's possible ofc) I've removed kroll (about 190~) but I got only 100 megabytes free. 1.6gb is in use but I only got 100~ free on /home/	21:50
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: nope, you have to edit initscripts and most likely will break your system on doing so	21:50
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DocScrutinizer	for automount	21:50
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DocScrutinizer	and there's still rumour about system parts breaking on missing VFAT partiton	21:51
Aranel	DocScrutinizer: hmm. what you do if you make your device unbootable? Possible to do something outside (like using livecds on broken ubuntu installations, maybe multibooting?) or you just flash it?	21:51
ZogG	Aranel just make small script to umount and re-mount it and put somewhere	21:51
DocScrutinizer	Aranel: no	21:52
DocScrutinizer	reflash	21:52
ZogG	DocScrutinizer meh he formated SD	21:52
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, don't scary him	21:52
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Aranel	DocScrutinizer: :\| I remember something named rescue-boot, doesn't it work if device is bricked?	21:53
DocScrutinizer	ZogG: If he's not yet scared by mere fact some silly packages ate 1.6GB of his /home, I guess I'll have a hard time to scare him at all	21:53
* Aranel sorry If I'm asking TONS of questions, It's because I have tons of questions :\|		21:53
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Aranel	DocScrutinizer: only thing scares me is some packages ate 1.6gb of my /home but I have only 100megabytes free space. I wonder what happened to 300~ megabytes.	21:54
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DocScrutinizer	rounding error and inodes	21:55
DocScrutinizer	maybe	21:55
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Aranel	means I have to do fsck. since kernel-power is not working, I cannot.	21:55
DocScrutinizer	a 10 byte file nevertheless needs a full 512byte block plus directory entry	21:55
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KaffeeJunky123	why does maemo not ask for my root pw when I do sudo gainroot?	21:56
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DocScrutinizer	KaffeeJunky123: because it's braindamaged. See http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools for a fix	21:56
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KaffeeJunky123	thanks a lot	21:57
DocScrutinizer	yw	21:58
KaffeeJunky123	I don't like gaining root privileges without pw ^^	21:58
DocScrutinizer	me neither :-D	21:58
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newbie007	hi, I'm getting an icon on the system menu. It's an image of a paper with 1 & 0's on it. And there is a red slash through that	22:00
newbie007	can anyone tell me what that means?	22:00
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slonopotamus	newbie007, that it doesn't have a better icon for that filetype?	22:02
mece	gnome <3	22:02
erani	is there a way to remove an individual appointment from a repeating appointment in calendar? due to e.g. some kind of exception in lecture arrangements	22:04
zap_	Anybody had problems with NFS mounts on N900? I remember I had the same problem ~a few month earlier, but don't remember the solution	22:04
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newbie007	It's a system error message of some sort	22:04
newbie007	if I plug headphones into the n900 I get an icon of headphones	22:05
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newbie007	in the same area I'm getting a message that something is off or disabled. but what?	22:05
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newbie007	It looks like the icon indicates that "Binary" is turned off	22:05
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DocScrutinizer	newbie007: means 'no SIM'	22:07
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newbie007	SIM ?	22:08
DocScrutinizer	it's actually a SIM, no paper :-)	22:08
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newbie007	DocScrutinizer: my phone card thing ?	22:09
newbie007	that sounds bad...	22:09
DocScrutinizer	you see cut corner on upper right ;-D	22:09
newbie007	yeap that's it, thank you	22:09
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DocScrutinizer	PR1.3 changelog courtesy PaulFertser : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=h-e-n;a=commitdiff;h=a2abd51199b9e61542a24ae9086ac1c6263106c4#patch9	22:12
Myrtti	that happens almost with every phone	22:12
Myrtti	it's not unusual or unheard of	22:12
newbie007	Myrtti: what does?	22:12
PaulFertser	Kernel changelog only, referenced from git comparing to the previous version.	22:12
PaulFertser	(just diff for debian/changelog in fact)	22:12
Myrtti	newbie007: that the sim card is dislodged, has some dust or just gets a slow kickstart	22:13
newbie007	getting a different boot up now.. asking for language	22:13
newbie007	Myrtti: I cleaned the contacts and rebooted	22:13
newbie007	looks good now	22:13
Myrtti	newbie007: if the problem is persistant, then I'd be worried, perhaps get a new sim from the operator	22:13
newbie007	I've noticed that a lot of my linux problems (few and far between though they be) are typcially hardware related.. not saying linux is bad on hardware. I'm saying that when I do have a problem it's usually not the software	22:14
Myrtti	Windows is good in hiding problems	22:14
newbie007	Myrtti: I think I'll stop using the phone in the shower so often	22:15
Myrtti	then when the problems appear, then the situation is usually unrecoverable	22:15
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PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer: added the link to Maemo_5/PR1.3, i hope that's enough for those interested in details.	22:15
DocScrutinizer	PaulFertser: thanks :-D	22:16
KaffeeJunky123	sshing into the n900 is pretty comfortable	22:17
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DocScrutinizer	KaffeeJunky123: try this link in your favourite browser :-D sftp://root@192.168.1.32/home/user/MyDocs/.documents (you might want to adjust the IP addr)	22:20
MohammadAG	do I see an IO patch in that kernel?	22:20
MohammadAG	block/cfq-iosched.c	22:20
MohammadAG	+ * Fixes: NB#164090 - Rover is violating SD card specification victimizing	22:21
MohammadAG	+ few (Sandisk) SD cards	22:21
MohammadAG	WTF?	22:21
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: that's not that	22:21
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: 'raping' is a better word	22:21
KaffeeJunky123	DocScrutinizer: that one doesn't work ^^	22:21
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: SD card specifications is more probably about omap_hsmmc.c changes	22:21
Myrtti	actually it's not	22:21
DocScrutinizer	Fixes: NB#149752 - kernel oops after lots of IO	22:21
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KaffeeJunky123	DocScrutinizer: probably haven't installed sftp on this machine	22:22
frals	omfg, a bug! IN THE KERNEL! THIS CAN NOT BE!	22:22
PaulFertser	"Big SD cards (16GiB) are prohibited from switching voltage regulator to asleep because of high current consumption"	22:22
MohammadAG	PaulFertser, yes I know it's not that	22:22
MohammadAG	oh, nvm	22:23
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MohammadAG	lol Stskeeps	22:23
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DocScrutinizer	cya peeps, dinner time	22:23
MohammadAG	why is this a kernel bug :/	22:24
MohammadAG	+ * Fixes: NB#147449 - Joikuspot slows device down	22:24
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: i'm more puzzled about "Dual boot for MeeGo", i see no related changes in the patchset.	22:24
Stskeeps	kexec's there	22:24
MohammadAG	PaulFertser, kexec?	22:24
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: probably Stskeeps knows why we see only debian changelog without actual patches.	22:24
* MohammadAG wonders if Stskeeps has all channels open in separate windows		22:24
Stskeeps	MohammadAG: irssi, baby	22:25
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: kexec seems to be enabled in the previous patchset as well, i see no related changes.	22:25
Myrtti	irssi ♥	22:25
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: there was a bug in ARMv7 .. sec	22:25
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DocScrutinizer	+ * Fixes: NB#170888 - Dual boot in kernel for enabling MeeGo	22:25
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: ah, so it's just about backporting some important low-level change, not about "enabling kexec".	22:26
MohammadAG	hmm	22:27
Stskeeps	kexec was =y all the time, but it wasnt working.. give me a minute	22:27
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MohammadAG	patches to musb_core	22:27
MohammadAG	this is interesting...	22:27
Stskeeps	http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Install/kexec#Building_and_installing_your_own_kernel	22:27
DocScrutinizer	duh!!	22:27
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, may I ask why the sources on meego.gitorious.org are as clear as fog?	22:27
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: ok, thanks, didn't thought of that possibility :) It's quite surprising (every time) to see nokia using that _ancient_ version as a base.	22:28
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: we're on .35 and loving it	22:28
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i'm sure there're some downsides; that was the same with n810 :(	22:28
PaulFertser	s^was^is^ even :\|	22:29
Stskeeps	n900 might be the first device that's well supported upstream	22:29
PaulFertser	Because n810 is still cool and still not really usable :\|	22:29
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: well, can you recommend n910 users to switch to .35 now, is it actually "production-ready"?	22:30
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: if you want to run maemo, no, but we're increasingily supporting more and more	22:31
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: ok, i see, thanks for the info.	22:31
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, now, answer my question :P	22:31
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Stskeeps	MohammadAG: the kernel?	22:34
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, initrd would be one, kernel would be another	22:34
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Stskeeps	ok, the n900 kernel we have, it's constructed as a rpm package, cos it simply makes it easy to build and follow kernel builds	22:35
Stskeeps	kernel is upstream + patches, because we shouldn't have 'the meego kernel source tree' and divert from upstrema	22:35
MohammadAG	so, the patches should apply against the latest upstream?	22:36
MohammadAG	aka bleeding edge	22:36
Stskeeps	again 2.6.35 atm yes	22:36
Stskeeps	there's two tracks	22:36
Stskeeps	-dev and stable	22:36
MohammadAG	I'm thinking 2.6.35.7	22:36
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, and the initrd?	22:37
Stskeeps	look at the .spec, it's obvious how it's put together..	22:37
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PaulFertser	Folks, they seem to be doing a strange trick in new kernel: once some userspace app writes anything that's not "0" to the "lock" sysfs node of the si4713 driver, changing FM transmitter power becomes impossible until after module reload.	22:40
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PaulFertser	And it's "locked" on my device indeed.	22:43
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Stskeeps	regulatory needs maybe	22:44
Stskeeps	if it's a problem, hack it	22:44
PaulFertser	Module reload helps :)))	22:44
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i mean the trick seems to be really inconsistent.	22:45
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PaulFertser	(probably just plain stupid even)	22:45
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DocScrutinizer51	probably really just meant to avoid accidental messing	22:47
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ShadowJK	Some people do say that if you turn up power beyond the max in the datasheet, the frequency starts drifting after a few minutes :-)	22:48
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PaulFertser	Some people (inside Nokia) should learn to fucking talk to their users explaining what and why's going on.	22:49
DocScrutinizer51	hehe	22:49
DocScrutinizer51	and again hehe	22:50
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: we discuss the kernel stuff in meego in the open and on mailing list	22:50
Stskeeps	maemo, well, dunno	22:50
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: that's very nice of you indeed.	22:50
DocScrutinizer51	see backscoll, search for consumer	22:50
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i really hope MeeGo will become the system you dreamed off.	22:51
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frals	users = idiots, sorry but its usually true :P	22:51
Stskeeps	i hope so too - i mean, i am in charge of making it so	22:51
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: my new role is nokia n900 hardware adaptation maintainer in meego, so	22:51
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i know you (and many other folks in the team) are well-intended. But nokia's behaviour is still offending me.	22:51
DocScrutinizer51	is there a ole for Nokia FOSS hardware evangelist?	22:52
DocScrutinizer51	role*	22:52
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: pr1.3 released but goddamn "cherry" is still there. That's what i can't really tolerate, uber-offensive.	22:52
DocScrutinizer51	yeah	22:53
MohammadAG	frals, sadly, we're all users in a way	22:53
DocScrutinizer51	know mega annoyance	22:53
DocScrutinizer51	+n	22:53
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PaulFertser	Asking for IMEA to download the firmware is also both offensive and meaningless (as everything is there in the repos anyway) at the same time!	22:55
DocScrutinizer51	not really aiui	22:55
ShadowJK	Some of the repos aren't downloadable from a desktop PC btw :)	22:56
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: i'm happy to see the meego images not requiring that anymore	22:56
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, they are ;)	22:56
ShadowJK	With key from the device..	22:56
MohammadAG	cough/etc/apt/authcough	22:56
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: if i decide to not use Nokia devices because they keep offending me, i'd not have much choice to run those nice meego images on. :\|	22:57
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: help the beagleboard effort :)	22:57
ShadowJK	that'd bring touchbook with it almost, i guess	22:58
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Stskeeps	yeah	22:58
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PaulFertser	Stskeeps: well, we'll never fully agree about these matters, we both know that. I do not feel like i can say anything new. I passed the link to the kernel changes to the guys, i think it's now obvious that one should update to the PR1.3 kernel.	22:59
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Stskeeps	:nod:	22:59
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Noobmonk3y	hmmmmmmmmmmm is there a way to wrap cells in a qt gridlayout?	23:00
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achipa	PaulFertser: the IMEI-for-firmware is a licensing pain-in-the-butt, not a preference	23:01
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PaulFertser	achipa: how can it make sense when all the same components of the firmware are freely downloadable from the repository?	23:02
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achipa	PaulFertser: they aren't (as in not ALL components)	23:02
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DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: so I look forward for PR1.3 kernel plus sarahn's patches plus mine :-)	23:02
achipa	and even if they were, that would be the error (sadly)	23:02
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PaulFertser	achipa: then why not remove those misterious components from the image? What are they?	23:03
achipa	achipa: Flash, Skype, driver blobs, that sort of stuff	23:03
achipa	PaulFertser: ^^	23:03
nid0	im sure people wouldnt much appreciate software like ovi/skype getting removed just so the odd couple of people who get really irritated by the imei prompt could be happy	23:03
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PaulFertser	achipa: those can be downloaded separately by the user if he wants shit in his device i guess.	23:04
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ZogG	achipa flash - samsh, skype - pipe, blobs - pops, stuff - puff	23:04
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achipa	PaulFertser: no, they cannot. That's why we are pissing blood with !$%&@$^ Flash 10.1	23:04
DocScrutinizer51	PaulFertser: alas a few of thise are mandatory for a working device - e.g. bme	23:05
PaulFertser	achipa: and wifi driver firmware is redistributable anyway.	23:05
PaulFertser	DocScrutinizer51: isn't bme in the repos?	23:05
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DocScrutinizer51	dunno	23:05
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DocScrutinizer51	wouldn't think so	23:05
zap	Anybody can tell me where I can get libwmf0.2-7 package? It's in Nokia repository, but I need it in scratchbox	23:05
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achipa	PaulFertser: hey, I'm just saying that there is at least one component that is limited by some licensing idiocy and so most be tied to a device	23:06
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PaulFertser	achipa: let it be downloaded automatically from the internet then.	23:07
zap	ah, its in -testing	23:07
valdyn	PaulFertser: that graphic driver blob?	23:07
valdyn	PaulFertser: end users supposed to run n900 in tty mode?	23:07
PaulFertser	achipa: or the devs could have spent 30 minutes (!) to make the script build two kind of images: redistributable and non-redistributable.	23:08
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MohammadAG	Posts: 1,337 \| Thanked: 3,128 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Jerusalem, PS/IL	23:08
MohammadAG	I'm 1337 :P	23:08
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MohammadAG	PaulFertser, bme is in the repos, and the latest (MeeGo) one is redistributable	23:08
achipa	PaulFertser: sadly, that doesn't work like that (again, nothing to do with technical stuff, pure procedural-legal drain bramagery)	23:09
DocScrutinizer51	PaulFertser: sure things could 've done better. But imei is one of the minor itches	23:09
PaulFertser	valdyn: the graphic driver blob can be made independent of imea registration (if it's not already).	23:09
PaulFertser	achipa: sadly, i feel a personal offense when anyone's doing that to me.	23:09
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MohammadAG	why personal?	23:10
achipa	PaulFertser: I suggest you write a heartfelt letter to vendors providing driver blobs or components that require such licensing	23:10
achipa	PaulFertser: (and in this case, it's not just Nokia)	23:10
PaulFertser	MohammadAG: i'm kinda solipsist, so i'm not assuming anyone else exists ;)	23:10
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* Arkenoi observed 1.3 incoming call screen glitch, well, compared to 1.2 it is non-issue, i surely can live with it		23:11
PaulFertser	achipa: it's nokia not negotiating with the vendors enough. I'm sure nokia could push them if it wanted.	23:11
Stskeeps	we have SGX redistributable, which is nice	23:11
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* MohammadAG wants rythmbox on the N900		23:12
achipa	PaulFertser: in the corporate world, that often tran$late$ to pu$h :)	23:12
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valdyn	PaulFertser: we dont know if the "vendor" has the rights to "free" its stuff, most probably hes also using 3rd party restricted code...	23:12
PaulFertser	achipa: i guess it's rather about nokia's managers not caring much. Even one man can change a lot you know.	23:12
MohammadAG	Arkenoi, we're working on a proper community SSU, you can expect not to wait till it's fixed officially	23:12
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MohammadAG	this time, it'll be proper	23:13
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: what hw bits are you missing redistributability for? (let's not talk open source, that's another big discussion)	23:13
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PaulFertser	valdyn: it's not about freeing, it's just about sane requirements for distribution (and requesting IMEI is just stupid as it doesn't really work for the "intended" purpose).	23:13
djszapi	can I install cmake on the target device (not inside scratchbox)	23:13
djszapi	?	23:13
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: i'm not sure, achipa's telling me that nokia has to ask me for imei because of some restrictions.	23:14
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Stskeeps	PaulFertser: hw bits we're actively trying to get redistributable, at least	23:14
achipa	Stskeeps: the point is, the firmware has components to which Nokia has only license to distribute linked to a particular device	23:14
PaulFertser	Stskeeps: thanks again for that :)	23:14
PaulFertser	achipa: but asking for imei doesn't link it anyhow.	23:15
Arkenoi	MohammadAG, will there be modest that starts directly in default inbox? ;-)	23:15
Stskeeps	PaulFertser: DSP codecs are on a liberal license too, it looks like	23:15
MohammadAG	Arkenoi, patches welcome :P	23:15
PaulFertser	achipa: it's just hipocrisy on the nokia's side.	23:15
PaulFertser	And that stinks!	23:15
achipa	PaulFertser: hipocrisy how ?	23:15
MohammadAG	SSU modest already has 2 community patches from two bug reports	23:15
ShadowJK	how do you determine default inbox	23:15
ShadowJK	or how would you set it	23:16
ShadowJK	is it a server thing?	23:16
PaulFertser	achipa: asking for imei doesn't work. It doesn't tie the firmware to the device. That's just a (silly) way to restrict downloading from the nokia's site. I can publish my IMEI and whoever will be able to download the image.	23:16
Arkenoi	ShadowJK, manual setting would be ok	23:16
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achipa	PaulFertser: the point is severability - then it's not Nokia's problem - they can say they provided user of device X, whatever he did later, who cares	23:17
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DocScrutinizer51	PaulFertser: IMEI works exactly as intended - think about it	23:18
PaulFertser	achipa: that's what i call hypocrisy. It's not about doing anything properly but about playing a silly game: "-- you know this component can't be freely distrubuted. -- Oh, why, of course, we won't allow that". That's all dirty games and lies, don't you see that?	23:18
achipa	PaulFertser: and what do you want ? That they not provide firmware images and require to go to flashing points ?	23:19
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achipa	because that's pretty much the alternative	23:19
PaulFertser	achipa: yes!	23:19
PaulFertser	achipa: that would be honest!	23:19
GAN900	Ha	23:19
achipa	PaulFertser: ooookay... consult with other users before requesting this from Nokia Care...	23:19
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nid0	at the end of the day, "honesty" has to make way for usability.	23:19
DocScrutinizer51	PaulFertser: when I played silly games with publishing black blobs on schematics, you were"mt that upset	23:19
GAN900	Can we stop having this particular argument?	23:19
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PaulFertser	achipa: ROTFL, Nokia Care never cares :) That's part of the hypocrisy (remember "newspeak", eh?).	23:20
DocScrutinizer51	can we stop the whole discussion now please?	23:20
nid0	the n900 is a product, and from a business point of view your argument that nokia should make life insanely difficult for users who buy it just to satisfy your personal distaste of a little bit of hipocrisy is nuts	23:20
PaulFertser	Sure, i'm stopping	23:20
achipa	~stop	23:20
infobot	PLEASE STOP!	23:20
nid0	anyway. im still amazed my device rebooted fine earlier with 0 rootfs space :\	23:21
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ioan	when I ssh in my n900, I'm root. How do I get to be user and not root?	23:22
tybollt	su $USER	23:23
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tybollt	remember to create this user first though :)	23:23
* Noobmonk3y burps bacon		23:23
MohammadAG	or ssh user@IP	23:23
kerio	BACON!1!1!1	23:23
MohammadAG	change pass for user first	23:24
ioan	ok, I'll try	23:24
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ioan	ssh user@IP worked, thanks	23:26
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* lcuk runs over to Noobmonk3y and smells his bacony breath		23:27
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ZogG	lcuk, hey man	23:27
* lcuk isnt stopping, called for smokes - i am downstairs atm		23:28
ZogG	lcuk i wondered to ask somethin	23:28
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lcuk	after tv, couple of hours	23:29
ZogG	short one	23:29
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lcuk	ask everyone here and if you still dont know after i return i will have a go	23:30
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ZogG	i wondered as you was hired by nokia there were almost no or no fmms updates, is it because of no time or nokia don't want you ?	23:30
lcuk	fmms was written by frals the great	23:31
lcuk	we just pushed him on	23:31
ZogG	oh damn	23:31
ZogG	lcuk, right, i'm little bit high =(	23:31
* Noobmonk3y giggles		23:32
ZogG	what you mean pushed him on?	23:32
ShadowJK	lcuk was hired by nokia?	23:32
Noobmonk3y	evening lcuk - hope you are well? :)	23:32
ZogG	no frals was	23:32
ShadowJK	oh	23:32
Noobmonk3y	ShadowJK: Lcuk is nokia, he owns them, its penny change to him ;) lol	23:32
Noobmonk3y	frals: is just his gimp kiddy ;)	23:32
* Noobmonk3y cuddles frals ;)		23:32
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ioan	the webos games don't have a quit, close, exit... how do you close them? just task manager and close?	23:33
Noobmonk3y	ctrl backspace? :P	23:34
ioan	yes, it's what I'm doing. I was thinking that maybe there is another way	23:34
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nid0	press power button, end current task is another optiob	23:35
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ZogG	power button	23:36
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pigeon	i use shortcutd to assign the camera button to do what ctrl-backspace does, which is very useful in situation like that too	23:38
* Noobmonk3y grumbles		23:38
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* DocScrutinizer51 is still amazed by the flying little windows every time he pushed BSp while holding CTRL		23:40
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* DocScrutinizer51 wonders if that transition has been one of the 1000 easter eggs in maemo (here hildon) or if matan implemented that		23:42
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer51, I think it was matan	23:43
DocScrutinizer51	dude	23:43
MohammadAG	something like move_windows()	23:43
MohammadAG	sec	23:43
DocScrutinizer51	smokes compiz in a pipe	23:44
MohammadAG	+void hd_task_navigator_rotate_thumbs(void) {	23:44
MohammadAG	in his patch ^	23:44
DocScrutinizer51	~hail matan	23:44
* infobot bows down to matan and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"		23:45
MohammadAG	as well as +void hd_task_navigator_sort_thumbs(void) {	23:45
wmarone	man, fedora's such a fucking piece of garbage	23:50
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MohammadAG	debian ftw!	23:50
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wmarone	oh no, can't update packages because for some reason the proxy config isn't actually being set!	23:50
wmarone	despite having set it	23:51
wmarone	in multiple places ;-;	23:51
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achipa	Fresh from the oven - pr1.3 friendly tweakflashver now working and available for download	23:55
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* MohammadAG puts in fridge :P		23:56
MohammadAG	hmm, opera doesn't have tearing in fullscreen mode, desktop composition?	23:56
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ioan	weird how well the webos games run on n900... why weren't this game available earlier from the companies that made the games? :-)	23:57
ioan	*those games	23:57
MohammadAG	it's not development difficulties, I assure you	23:57
MohammadAG	see the N8, it got tons of games today from gameloft	23:57
ioan	yeah	23:58
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ioan	probably nokia said	23:58
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achipa	ioan: the pre was originally lower-clocked than the N900	23:58
ioan	"forget n900, give us games for n8	23:58
ioan	"	23:58
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MohammadAG	it's not Nokia's decision	23:59
MohammadAG	it's the developers'	23:59
MohammadAG	the N900 has a fail DRM system	23:59
MohammadAG	why? cause it doesn't exist	23:59

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