IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2017-07-28

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ollieparanoid[m]could you guys please allow tor IPs to access the maemo homepage? I'd greatly appreciate it00:37
ollieparanoid[m](also someone told me, that the tls certificates are broken, and he can't even reach the site from chrome now)00:37
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, wtf? kicks me to "login"00:46
DocScrutinizer05and seems to forward to https which makes my browser complain about cert00:47
DocScrutinizer05for though!!?!!!?!?!!00:47
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DocScrutinizer05WTF honestly
L29Ahfacilitate plz00:50
sixwheeledbeast^The offical word is Tor isn't blocked as such. It's just so happens that most Exit Node IP's are on the forum spam blacklist.00:50
DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: stfu if you got no better 'jokes'00:50
DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast^: this isn't Tor00:51
sixwheeledbeast^I was answering above Doc.00:52
L29Ahit's not a joke00:52
sixwheeledbeast^"please allow tor IP's"00:52
DocScrutinizer05aaah damn, no glasses. Tor IP, not for IP00:52
MartijnBraamHmm yeah I can't seem to access through RFC 254900:53
DocScrutinizer05do you expect we look up rfc2549 now?00:54
DocScrutinizer05xes: warfare ^^^00:54
ollieparanoid[m]sixwheeledbeast^: thanks for your answer. could someone remove the blacklisted nodes then? because in my experience all exit nodes are blocked. at least for read only it would be super useful00:54
MartijnBraamDocScrutinizer05: I expect at least 50% of the people here to not have to look it up00:55
DocScrutinizer05ollieparanoid[m]: that's a recurring topic and I'm with you but it seems the maintainers in charge feel it's impossible to allow read-only00:55
DocScrutinizer05MartijnBraam: good luck with this then00:56
ollieparanoid[m]DocScrutinizer05: who are the maintainers in charge?00:56
DocScrutinizer05me? warfare? xes?00:57
DocScrutinizer05I admit the latter two might know 254900:57
ollieparanoid[m]sorry that I didn't know you, I don't hang out much in the maemo forums, I just click on a link once a while, that leads me there, because you have some quite useful information00:57
DocScrutinizer05ooh, for Tor blacklist. I guess that's chem|st00:58
ollieparanoid[m]DocScrutinizer05: yeah, so is there anything I could do to change the situation?00:58
DocScrutinizer05for yourself, see the message you get on which suggests to send an email00:58
sixwheeledbeast^It depends on what part of the site.00:58
ollieparanoid[m](or @chem|st then)00:58
infobotwell, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see, or contact tmo maintainer chem|st in here00:59
ollieparanoid[m]DocScrutinizer05: it says:00:59
ollieparanoid[m]Sorry, it seems that you are using an IP address or a proxy that is listed in the forum anti spam blacklist.00:59
ollieparanoid[m]Feel free to contact our staff on irc freenode #maemo channel.00:59
ollieparanoid[m]so here I am :)00:59
DocScrutinizer05ok, ping chem|st00:59
sixwheeledbeast^Well you are most likely to get a quick response from one of the ~150 people idling here.01:00
DocScrutinizer05though aiui techstuff moved the 'wall' from tmo to maemo firewall01:01
ollieparanoid[m]it's fine, I'll be offline soon anyway. chem|st, would be nice if you could answer me about the (indirect) tor blockage issue01:02
DocScrutinizer05xes: you around?01:02
DocScrutinizer05warfare: ping01:02
DocScrutinizer05I'm way more worried about
DocScrutinizer05wtf is orderno,com?01:03
MartijnBraamIt hosts the big image on the homepage01:03
DocScrutinizer05and what it got to do on webpages01:03
ollieparanoid[m]maybe you guys could consider let's encrypt01:04
DocScrutinizer05how would that help for third party URLs?01:05
DocScrutinizer05als we need a wildcard cert and LE offers those starting next year. Even then I'd go for a decent commercial cert any day01:05
sixwheeledbeast^This thread covers the Tor issue. If you can access it.
DocScrutinizer05LE is a huge PITA01:06
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L29Ahwhat's wrong with LE except the inavailability of wildcard certs?01:07
DocScrutinizer05icing on top: update script auto update01:07
L29Ahget acme_tiny.py01:07
L29Ahit's cca 100sloc01:07
L29Ahthe official client is insane, yeah01:07
ollieparanoid[m]DocScrutinizer05: well, I didn't want to kick off a discussion - use whatever suits you best. but a valid certificate would be nice. but for me the relevant part is the tor thing, I don't care that much if your cert is valid or not, as long as I can read the information01:08
MartijnBraamalso LE doesn't have support for haproxy in their official client01:08
DocScrutinizer05LE completely misses the point of authentication/trust, only dealing with encryption (as the name already implies)01:08
MartijnBraambut enough third party clients01:08
ollieparanoid[m]sixwheeledbeast^: thans for the link01:08
L29Ahx.509 trust model is inherently broken anyway01:08
L29Ahand everyone just checks DNS01:08
L29Ahnot only LE01:08
DocScrutinizer05ollieparanoid[m]: *our* cert seems valid. There's a link to a third party with selfsigned cert on the webpage01:09
DocScrutinizer05which is a huge nogo01:09
povbotBug 647959: was not found.01:09
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DocScrutinizer05"Why don't you use XY?" - "because it's broken by concept" - "so what? the original thing also was almost broken, though not by concept. So you could as well use sth that is decently broken from beginning"   SURE makes SO MUCH sense01:12
L29Ahwhat original thing?01:13
sixwheeledbeast^Doc I get when I look at the cert here. Expires in 5 days. 1 Aug.01:13
DocScrutinizer05feels like "why don't you use whatsapp instead of old obsolete SMS? It's free"01:14
DocScrutinizer05sicelo: here's something for council to take care of, urgently01:15
DocScrutinizer05get a new 2 year wildcard cert01:15
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: ^^^01:16
L29Ahle's certs are cron'able at least01:17
DocScrutinizer05and don't waste everybody's time with "why don't we use LE instead? it is for free while a 2 year *-cert costs some 10 bucks per month" please01:17
L29Ahanswer my questions please01:18
L29Ahalthough i see that you may be too busy facilitating things01:18
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DocScrutinizer05too busy trolling to stay in this channel when he can't continue with that01:21
DocScrutinizer05the time wasted by discussions with LE proponents alone is worth 50 times the cost of a commercial wildcard cert, every month. On top recurring issues with the recurring failing cronjob to renew the LE crap, that cause constant workload for nothing on our admins01:25
DocScrutinizer05for a 9 bucks per month? honestly now?01:26
DocScrutinizer05let alone you can't pin LE-certs since they are ephemeral by concept01:27
DocScrutinizer05donors donated funds exactly for this purpose to make life of our sysops more easy01:29
DocScrutinizer05we don't need "donations" like "why don't you use LE?"01:30
DocScrutinizer05not as if we never heard of it before and need L29Ah to make us aware of such option01:31
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DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast^: ->
DocScrutinizer05sorry, c&p error  - www.maemo.org02:41
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DocScrutinizer05Konqueror doesn't implicitly redirect to https://02:42
DocScrutinizer05and aiui embedding content from foreign sites into a HTTPS page isn't good practice either, and probably will result in a warning in all modern browsers. Aside from that the link is 404 for me, regardless of the self-signed cert.02:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe condolence period is about to expire anyway, though I lack knowledge of what's commonly considered appropriate02:49
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freemangordonparazyd: Wizzup: there is a VM on maemo infra ready for amprolla08:08
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xes'morning ..once a month, full night spent in a bed :)  DocScrutinizer05: I need some coffe before look into backlog08:49
DocScrutinizer05np :-)08:50
DocScrutinizer05I can sum up stuff for you: cert expires in 5 days. And on the pjoto links to something with a self signed cert, maybe the whole website needs rollback eventually, I think it's been up long enough?08:51
DocScrutinizer05via https I get redirected from to login...   And from login I get redirected to http08:53
DocScrutinizer05we should get a 2y wildcard cert08:56
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freemangordonxes: 'morning and thanks for the VM :)08:57
freemangordonxes: I'll be MIA for a week starting tomorrow, please help parazyd and/or Wizzup with giving them (or one of them) access08:58
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xesDocScrutinizer05: i think next week warfare will renew the certificates. The remaining sistuation seems ok with usual (even if weird) redirects10:59
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DocScrutinizer05it doesn't seem right that a user that's not logged in gets redirected from to login page11:02
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DocScrutinizer05and is quite a bit obsolete after 7 months, no? Also has
DocScrutinizer05I'm sorry I can't reproduce it now since there's no way to log out on maemo.org11:05
KotCzarnyclear cookies or create new firefox profile11:06
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sicelowhat's that simple pastebin? KotCzarny12:24
KotCzarnydepends, most of them have raw link option12:24
KotCzarnybut not all12:24 has, but by default it's js infested12:24
KotCzarnyand ubuntu or debian pastebin is atrocious because it requires you to login for raw link12:25
sicelonever logged into debian pastebin .. are you sure? i don't even see a login link12:30
KotCzarnythen it might be ubuntu's one12:30
siceloanyway, there's one that i seem to remember you used to post a lot :-)12:30
KotCzarnyin general as long you can paste raw link it's good12:31
sicelocan pastebin to it directly from comdline .. forgot it now12:31
KotCzarnyahm, you mean ?12:31
siceloyes. thanks. that one!12:34
KotCzarnyit's more for files than pastes12:34
KotCzarnyif you want to paste text from cmdline you can use something like that:
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sicelothanks KotCzarny12:41
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ceenewell guys14:27
ceenetoday is friday!14:27
ceeneand we're going on vacation for the whole month14:27
ceeneso i'll be totally offline14:27
ceenei'll some irssi here just so you don't miss me :D14:27
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sicelohi jonwil ,  sslayer14:56
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saltywavelowlifeHi, my n9 was stuck in a bootloop (rebooting after nokia logo) then i did a comprehensive flash, now it simply powers off after the logo, sometimes making it as far as the initial config screen17:31
saltywavelowlifetried a 'zeroize' flash as well with the same result, flasher reports >80% battery, any ideas?17:32
KotCzarnyyou will see more n9 owners on #harmattan17:33
saltywavelowlifesure, looked a little quiet (more than #maemo at least :) though so thought i'd try my luck here17:40
bencohI'd look on TMO for similar reports17:45
siceloThinkpad T430 .. worth buying, or 3rd gen Intel Core not worth it?18:01
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DocScrutinizer05sicelo: cat foo | nc 999920:17
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sicelothanks DocScrutinizer05 :-)20:45
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DocScrutinizer05caveat: I have NO idea who's rinning this and what's the policy with the stuff you upload20:51
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DocScrutinizer05you might feed skynet's AI lessons ;-) Or have an occasional chat with a TLA20:56
DocScrutinizer05but how's that different from arbitrary activities in the internet at large?20:57
siceloi'd be using it for something that doesn't need any privacy at all :-)20:57
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/Dokumente/Neo900/projbin/kicad-et-al/eeshow> as paste20:58
DocScrutinizer05alias paste='nc 9999'20:58
DocScrutinizer05then there's also pastebinit script package but that frequently breaks and needs update20:59
DocScrutinizer05jr@saturn:~/Dokumente/Neo900/projbin/kicad-et-al/eeshow> file `which pastebinit`21:00
DocScrutinizer05/usr/bin/pastebinit: Python script, ASCII text executable21:00
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DocScrutinizer05at least pythin, so simply wget a working version right into your $PATH (then CHECK it for rogue stuff before using it!)21:09
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jogaoh neat... never heard of this one before but some qwerty smartphone in japan that runs win7 :)
jogaold too, heh21:21
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* DocScrutinizer05 reads NTT-Docomo and shudders21:24
DocScrutinizer05notorious for NIH and their completely proprietary 'solutions'21:25
DocScrutinizer05not like US carriers would be any better. Particularly recently21:36
DocScrutinizer05most of them don't invent own modulation mode like NTT does, but they nevertheless 'invent' new band*modulation/RAT combinations that no generic phone supports21:37
DocScrutinizer05as a result some modern modem chipsets are 20 or even 30 Band, with more than 50% of those needed for US carriers only21:39
DocScrutinizer05a 15 years ago, quad band guaranteed worldwide compatibility21:40
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DocScrutinizer05not only a technical nightmare regarding filters for each band etc - also each single band needs its own set of tests in lab *and* field for approval, which multiplies the approval cost significantly22:08
DocScrutinizer05approval cost for an average LTE modem like e.g. ST-E thorium are already in the hundreds of man years22:10
DocScrutinizer05and this, combined with the requirement that the aproved modem hw + radiostack-firmware conbo must not change after aproval are the reasons why there *never* will be a (legal to use) FOSS radio stack for any modem chipset22:12
DocScrutinizer05paradox situation: approval for a non-standard band by the carrier who operates that non-standard band is significantly cheaper since it's up to the carrier to define the approval requirements and finally grant approval22:16
DocScrutinizer05so in markets like USA where carriers are not bound by authorities regarding what they do in the band they own, there's no economic incentive for the carrier to adhere to standards and offer interoperability for their customers' phones22:18
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