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| DocScrutinizer05 | wow, that's some strange and incorrect syntax and nonsensical function that something injects into my standard PC bash environment: http://privatepaste.com/3afb019331 | 01:45 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least it lacks the ":" between "1" and "+" | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and nevertheless works | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://privatepaste.com/d7f23996ea | 01:49 |
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| Maxdamantus | weirdness? in bash? can't be. | 02:28 |
| Maxdamantus | I recently pointed out something that seems crazy on the bash-bug mailing list .. the developers are convinced it's correct, expected behaviour. | 02:29 |
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| Maxdamantus | echo "$(echo '!!')" | 02:29 |
| Maxdamantus | in bash 3 or greater, that will expand the !!, even though it's within single quotes. | 02:30 |
| Maxdamantus | before bash, the problem manifests in: echo "'" !! "'" | 02:30 |
| Maxdamantus | er, before bash 3 | 02:30 |
| Maxdamantus | (Maemo normally has bash 2, so that one's relevant there) | 02:31 |
| Maxdamantus | it doesn't expand the !!, even though it's not quoted. | 02:31 |
| Maxdamantus | Basically, the history expansion uses a finite state machine to determine whether it should expand a ! construction. | 02:31 |
| Maxdamantus | before bash 3, it only changed state because of a backslash or a single quote. | 02:32 |
| Maxdamantus | since bash 3, it changes state also because of double quotes, but it doesn't know that double quotes can be inlined (that would require an infinite state machine) | 02:33 |
| Maxdamantus | which leads to even weirder things: echo "$(echo "$(echo '!!')")" | 02:33 |
| Maxdamantus | it sees "$(echo " as one double-quoted string, and ")" as another. | 02:34 |
| Maxdamantus | and '!!' is a single-quoted string | 02:34 |
| Maxdamantus | so it doesn't expand | 02:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | fun | 03:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | I got bash3 at least | 03:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Maxdamantus: actually I'm not sure about precedence of ( over " | 03:50 |
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| Maxdamantus | The $ is important. | 03:51 |
| Maxdamantus | $(..) runs the .. command and expands to its output. | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, yeah, prolly that $( ) should have precedence over any " | 03:52 |
| Maxdamantus | when quoted, it's not split by IFS. | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless it's enclosed in " " :-S | 03:52 |
| r00t^home | Maxdamantus: just disable history expansion, that's what i do | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha | 03:53 |
| * Maxdamantus often uses history expansion. | 03:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I only use completion from jistory, and get pissed when it's not mapped to page-up | 03:54 |
| Maxdamantus | most uses could be done with an extra up, ctrl-a, something, ctrl-e, something though. | 03:54 |
| Maxdamantus | find . -name foo.c | 03:54 |
| Maxdamantus | vim $(!! | tail -1) | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wow | 03:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | -n 1 | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 03:55 |
| r00t^home | i suck, i use copy/paste | 03:55 |
| * Maxdamantus is planning on creating a new shell atm | 03:56 | |
| Maxdamantus | one that's statically typed. | 03:56 |
| Maxdamantus | with higher-kinded polymorphism and type classes. | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I found find finds own manpage nonsense | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for mtime or mdate or whatever | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | according to manpage you should use negative values when in fact you need positive ones, and vice versa | 03:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Maxdamantus: and an unambiguous syntax please :-) | 03:58 |
| * Maxdamantus hasn't tried using `find` with mtimes. | 03:58 | |
| Maxdamantus | Yes, that too. | 03:58 |
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| Maxdamantus | It won't be inherently expansion-based. | 03:59 |
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| Maxdamantus | which means it will probably have pointers. | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kinda sounds good | 04:00 |
| Maxdamantus | (not that expansion-based systems can't support pointers) | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bash knows ${!foo} - that's it | 04:00 |
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| Maxdamantus | What does ${!foo} do? | 04:01 |
| Maxdamantus | Nothing to do with history expansion? | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | double-expansion | 04:01 |
| Maxdamantus | if you do it with history expansion enabled, it will find the last `foo` command and put that int ${..} | 04:02 |
| Maxdamantus | into* | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | foo=bar; bar=X; echo $!foo -> X | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | foo=bar; bar=X; echo ${!foo} -> X | 04:02 |
| Maxdamantus | foo=(1 2 3) | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | foo [1] | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | echo ${!foo} | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | should echo 2 | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | afaik | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> foo=bar; bar=X; echo ${!foo} | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> !! | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | with history expansion enabled. | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | foo=bar; bar=X; echo ${!foo} | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X | 04:03 |
| Maxdamantus | Wait, it's not doing history expansion there. | 04:04 |
| Maxdamantus | How is it not doing history expansion there?{ | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's smaaaart? | 04:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 04:05 |
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| Maxdamantus | I looked at the code and it was stupid, not smart. | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (me snickers | 04:06 |
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| Maxdamantus | can't have a space in an array subscript anyway. | 04:07 |
| Maxdamantus | er, before the subscript bit. | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jr@saturn:~> foo=bar; bar=X; echo $!foo | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | foo | 04:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Maxdamantus: also you're aware bash knows typing? | 04:09 |
| Maxdamantus | foo <<< "$(tr \ \\n <<< 'c 5 c 6 12')" | 04:10 |
| Maxdamantus | What sort of typing? | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least this: >> The declare, local, and readonly builtins each accept a -a option to specify an indexed array and a -A option to specify an associative array. | 04:11 |
| Maxdamantus | Well, I knew it had indexed arrays. | 04:12 |
| Maxdamantus | I had a feeling it had associative arrays. I've never used them though. | 04:12 |
| Maxdamantus | 13:03:19 < Maxdamantus> foo=(1 2 3) | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | declare: declare [-aAfFgilrtux] [-p] [name[=value] ...] | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Set variable values and attributes. | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has help | 04:14 |
| Maxdamantus | I also want my shell to have first-class filesystems. | 04:15 |
| Maxdamantus | but will probably be a later addition. | 04:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | filesystems? | 04:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like... handles, fd ? &1? | 04:19 |
| Maxdamantus | So you can do something like implement a tmpfs in the shell, and perform builtin file operations on things inside it. | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ummm | 04:19 |
| robbiethe1st | wouldn't it be better to just wrap mount? | 04:19 |
| Maxdamantus | but also pass it to an external command, in which case it will be mounted and a filename will be passed down. | 04:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi robbiethe1st | 04:20 |
| robbiethe1st | hi | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | I remember when my irc client had a first-class shell | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi ShadowJK | 04:20 |
| robbiethe1st | My shell has an irc client! | 04:20 |
| robbiethe1st | (or, at least, irssi available) | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | (xchat used to have a "new bash tab" thing :) | 04:20 |
| Maxdamantus | I wrote an IRC server once with a &bash channel. | 04:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, konversation has | 04:21 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 realizes that booze is out since weeks. Sobs | 04:22 | |
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| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: what do you mean by wrap mount? | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | knew I should've gotten a new bottle whe I emptied the last one | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, some Gin left over. But nothing to mix it with | 04:23 |
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| robbiethe1st | I mean, create a command/builtin which would create/destroy your tempfs. And what it does is create a real tmpfs mount somewhere, and handle making sure it's deleted at the end of the script | 04:23 |
| Maxdamantus | The tmpfs should be implementable in the shell. | 04:24 |
| Maxdamantus | so it's not just limited to tmpfs. | 04:24 |
| Maxdamantus | It could be a filesystem with a file that when read executes a command and returns the output. | 04:24 |
| robbiethe1st | why? What would you get that couldn't be done with a system tmpfs? | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | move to plan9? | 04:25 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: tmpfs can't do that. | 04:25 |
| robbiethe1st | I mean, all the hard work has already been done | 04:25 |
| robbiethe1st | So, you emulate that functionality -- with your 'wrapper' functions | 04:26 |
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| Maxdamantus | The closest you could get would probably be to make a FIFO and dnotify it to see when to remove it and replace it with a new one. | 04:26 |
| Maxdamantus | which is full of race conditions. | 04:26 |
| Maxdamantus | and doesn't really have anything to do with tmpfs | 04:26 |
| robbiethe1st | lets say this is a special file that is actually the output. The user attempts to open a file, your script changes that call to be whatever you want | 04:27 |
| Maxdamantus | You should be able to implement an arbitrary filesystem. | 04:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 thinks that function to read afile and execute it so it returns something to stdout already exists. It's called command | 04:27 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;) | 04:27 |
| robbiethe1st | DocScrutinizer05, exactly | 04:27 |
| Maxdamantus | Okay, what about a filesystem that maps a command over existing files? | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it has a normal read called syscall() and a special edit call named read() | 04:28 |
| robbiethe1st | Maxdamantus, you don't want a shell or filesystem. What you want is a custom library that is ld_preloaded | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what he wants is an OO shell it seems | 04:29 |
| robbiethe1st | You could then replace standard posix functions for open/read/close with a test?passthrough:run-custom-function | 04:29 |
| robbiethe1st | I've seen this used if you wanted to prevent file deletion -- you can run a wrapper that messes with unlink functionality | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I see extreme trouble around the corner, with silly simple stuff like cp, and mv | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and sed | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | etc pp :-P | 04:30 |
| Maxdamantus | wavs = fsmap(import("/media/music"), () -> #{ ffmpeg -i - -y -f wav }) | 04:31 |
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| Maxdamantus | aplay $wavs:/foo/bar/baz.wav | 04:31 |
| Maxdamantus | with tab completion | 04:31 |
| Maxdamantus | etc | 04:31 |
| Maxdamantus | Don't need an explicit mount. | 04:32 |
| robbiethe1st | Exactly. Your fsmap function handles that | 04:32 |
| robbiethe1st | It would create a tmpfs and a bunch of symlinks as-needed | 04:32 |
| Maxdamantus | symlinks to what? | 04:32 |
| robbiethe1st | To the real files | 04:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves | 04:33 | |
| Maxdamantus | The point is they're not real files. | 04:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Where is the data coming from | 04:33 |
| Maxdamantus | ffmpeg | 04:33 |
| robbiethe1st | So, even easier | 04:33 |
| robbiethe1st | just a tmpfs. Creates it, handles the path... passes that to ffmpeg | 04:34 |
| robbiethe1st | Or, even for that, you could just use /tmp/ | 04:34 |
| Maxdamantus | Handles what path? | 04:34 |
| robbiethe1st | The path to the real storage place | 04:35 |
| Maxdamantus | There is no real storage place. | 04:35 |
| robbiethe1st | whether memory or disk | 04:35 |
| Maxdamantus | The file contents is generated by ffmpeg as you read it. | 04:35 |
| robbiethe1st | And why not just use a pipe? | 04:35 |
| robbiethe1st | That's kind of what the point of a pipe is | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | It is a pipe. | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | but it's a pipe generated from a filesystem. | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | which handles lots of file accesses. | 04:36 |
| robbiethe1st | Sounds like fifo files. which are basically pipes I think? | 04:36 |
| Maxdamantus | so if you had another program that shows a GUI to play wavs in a given directory, you could pass the filesystem to it. | 04:37 |
| Maxdamantus | wavplayer $wavs:. | 04:37 |
| robbiethe1st | So, it /has/ to be a filesystem, | 04:37 |
| Maxdamantus | No. The files don't actually exist. | 04:37 |
| Maxdamantus | They're all transient. | 04:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes, but they exist in memory | 04:37 |
| Maxdamantus | when you read a directory, the fsmap reads the source directory and passes through the results. | 04:38 |
| robbiethe1st | they have to exist somewhere within the scope of /, if a program which uses POSIX functions will use it | 04:38 |
| Maxdamantus | when you open a file, the fsmap invokes the ffmpeg command, given the input of the original file. | 04:38 |
| Maxdamantus | when you read from the fd, the fsmap reads from the corresponding ffmpeg invocation and passes through the result. | 04:38 |
| robbiethe1st | Sounds very much like FIFOs in a tmpfs, perhaps wrapped by a helper function to make it simple to script. | 04:39 |
| Maxdamantus | what has the tmpfs got to do with it? | 04:39 |
| robbiethe1st | the tmpfs exists only in memory(or swap, if needed) | 04:39 |
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| Maxdamantus | If you're using FIFOs, you're not storing anything. | 04:40 |
| robbiethe1st | It handles your backend, much faster than you could, and it's been designed correctly | 04:40 |
| Maxdamantus | unless you're talking about FIFO files, which are horrible. | 04:40 |
| robbiethe1st | You are storing the handles | 04:40 |
| Maxdamantus | FIFO files are the worst things ever. | 04:40 |
| robbiethe1st | why? | 04:41 |
| Maxdamantus | Have you ever tried reading from the same FIFO file with two processes? | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pan9 | 04:41 |
| robbiethe1st | And you think you could do better? | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plan9 even | 04:41 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: yes. Plan 9 has already done better. | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can do same on linux | 04:41 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: it encourages creation of these filesystems. | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man mount | 04:42 |
| robbiethe1st | If you are to read it from two destinations, you need to either synchronize both destinations, or cache the data so that the second reader can catch up | 04:42 |
| Maxdamantus | Linux has v9fs, but you need to be root to use it. | 04:42 |
| Maxdamantus | plan9port has a 9pfuse program though. | 04:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Uh, why is that a problem? Just use sudo, and setup a rule that allows for invocation of the mount command as user | 04:43 |
| robbiethe1st | with no password etc. | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces.html | 04:43 |
| Maxdamantus | Plan 9 also doesn't have the concept of sudo. | 04:43 |
| Maxdamantus | or a superuser. | 04:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Which is stupid | 04:43 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: no it's not | 04:43 |
| Tekk_ | oh wait | 04:43 |
| Tekk_ | what's stupid? | 04:43 |
| robbiethe1st | Not having a superuser | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | not having superusers. | 04:44 |
| Tekk_ | plan 9 not having sudo/superuser is really good | 04:44 |
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| Tekk_ | least imo | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | resource access is just whatever you can access through the filesystems you see. | 04:44 |
| Maxdamantus | in your namespace and open fds, etc | 04:44 |
| Tekk_ | yeah | 04:44 |
| * Tekk_ has used plan9 a decent amount | 04:44 | |
| robbiethe1st | Having a superuser is great; it means that there is a user which has all privlidges, and actually has authority over everything else. | 04:44 |
| * Maxdamantus hasn't used it much. | 04:44 | |
| * Maxdamantus likes the concepts though. | 04:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's one's sudo is the other's mountpoint | 04:45 |
| Tekk_ | Maxdamantus: I've used it just enough for acme to be my 2nd favorite editor :P | 04:45 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: and that's why it's horrible | 04:45 |
| Tekk_ | you have a single point of failure | 04:45 |
| Maxdamantus | I could probably generally make my way around acme. | 04:45 |
| Tekk_ | if root is owned it's game over | 04:45 |
| robbiethe1st | You have a single way of fixing everything when things break | 04:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Per-login namespaces | 04:46 |
| * Maxdamantus isn't too fond of the mouse orientation though, but maybe people get used to it. | 04:46 | |
| robbiethe1st | Have you ever messed with the N950 or N9? Both are locked down, such that root is not all-powerful | 04:46 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: root is necessary on unix-likes | 04:46 |
| robbiethe1st | Which means that you can't get around blocks just by going root | 04:46 |
| Tekk_ | but plan9 is designed to not have root | 04:46 |
| Tekk_ | so it works :P | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tekk_: now THAT is nonsense. | 04:47 |
| robbiethe1st | How do you deal with the issue of taking ownership of another's files, or administrating someone elses stuff? | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's true, like 2water is wet" | 04:47 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: I've never used plan9 because I haven't worked at bell labs | 04:47 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: depends how the files are stored. | 04:48 |
| Tekk_ | but I imagine that it works vaguely like the user whose stuff you're messing with allows you to mount them :P | 04:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Per-login namespaces | 04:48 |
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| robbiethe1st | And that's kind of a problem, in any managed environment | 04:48 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: how so? | 04:48 |
| Tekk_ | if you really need a superuser, just make it so that by default your "superuser" has access | 04:49 |
| robbiethe1st | Where you A, may not be able to get the use's permission, or B, the user cannot *give* permission etc. | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh | 04:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n8 | 04:49 |
| Tekk_ | n8 DocScrutinizer05 | 04:49 |
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| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: how do you deal with the issue of taking ownership of another's IRC connection? | 04:49 |
| Tekk_ | robbiethe1st: I'm certain that plan9 has something in place to handle this, I just haven't used it myself | 04:50 |
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| robbiethe1st | Wouldn't you either do it as root, or with sudo from another user with the privilidges | 04:50 |
| Maxdamantus | Do what? | 04:50 |
| Tekk_ | probably not | 04:50 |
| Tekk_ | because plan9 doesn't have root or sudo | 04:50 |
| robbiethe1st | I mean in unix-land | 04:51 |
| Tekk_ | oh | 04:51 |
| Tekk_ | yes | 04:51 |
| Tekk_ | in unix you would su to the user then attach to either their X session or their screen/tmux session | 04:51 |
| robbiethe1st | How would you evesdrop/take control of an open socket connection anyway? | 04:51 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: ultimately, the user might be accessing files over an encrypted connection. | 04:52 |
| robbiethe1st | wireshark can do it at the packet level, I think | 04:52 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: in which case I think you'd need to mess with the system's memory to manipulate them. | 04:52 |
| robbiethe1st | Maxdamantus, but with irc? | 04:52 |
| robbiethe1st | I'm actually curious | 04:52 |
| Maxdamantus | (so you either read another process' address space to get the encryption key, or make the kernel reroute fds) | 04:53 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: it's the same with IRC. | 04:53 |
| Maxdamantus | robbiethe1st: it doesn't make a lot of sense for root to claim ownership of another user's IRC connection. | 04:53 |
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| Maxdamantus | you'd need to do messy stuff with other process' namespaces if the connection is encrypted. | 04:53 |
| robbiethe1st | Unless you needed to | 04:53 |
| Maxdamantus | if it's unencrypted, in Linux you can open /proc/<pid>/fd/<fd>, kill the IRC process and continue talking. | 04:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Thing is, there's occasional need | 04:54 |
| Maxdamantus | if the files are on a disk you basically own, you're probably the one providing the filesystem, and the filesystem will probably provide a way to do extra stuff with it when you mount it. | 04:55 |
| Maxdamantus | eg, Plan 9 usually uses fossil, which has some fossilcons system. | 04:56 |
| Maxdamantus | Yeah, so it provides the interface through /srv/fscons | 04:56 |
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| Maxdamantus | but /srv/fscons is local to some process' namespace, sort of like a chroot. | 04:57 |
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| Maxdamantus | or processes' | 04:57 |
| Maxdamantus | if you're allowing other people the ability to run programs on the same machine, you'd create a new namespace without /srv/fscons | 04:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Per-login namespaces | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces.html | 05:02 |
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| Maxdamantus | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_X | 05:46 |
| Maxdamantus | Successor to Plan 9? | 05:46 |
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| Apic | A wonderful splendid fine Morning (UGT) on this gorgeous Prickle-Prickle! | 11:15 |
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| wizbit | how can i upgrade my Nokia N900 with v21.2011.38-1 firmare? | 21:47 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: which version you have currently installed? | 21:54 |
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| wizbit | freemangordon: Maemo 5 10.2010.19-1 | 22:02 |
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| freemangordon | wizbit: change the year in clock-ui to 2009, start HAM and click update | 22:03 |
| freemangordon | ~ham | 22:03 |
| infobot | methinks ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does | 22:03 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: the other option is to flash | 22:03 |
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| wizbit | freemangordon: so i dont need to flash at all? just do it from software update HAM? | 22:04 |
| freemangordon | yep | 22:04 |
| wizbit | ace | 22:04 |
| wizbit | is that the application manager in settings? | 22:04 |
| freemangordon | changing the year is because of the expired Nokia certificates | 22:05 |
| wizbit | or is HAM a 3rd party app manager? | 22:05 |
| freemangordon | in settings? | 22:05 |
| wizbit | i found 'App manager' in settings | 22:05 |
| wizbit | is that the tool i should be using? | 22:05 |
| freemangordon | this is not "settings", but applications, however, this is what you have to run | 22:06 |
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| freemangordon | yep, that is the tool | 22:06 |
| wizbit | ace ill set the date now to 2009 | 22:06 |
| freemangordon | the "settings" is the wrench in the "applications" :) | 22:06 |
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| wizbit | ok phone set to April 24th 2009 | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | good | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | now start HAM | 22:07 |
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| freemangordon | and have a beer(coffee, tee), whatever you want | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | it takes some time | 22:07 |
| freemangordon | :) | 22:08 |
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| wizbit | i selected App manager and my screen says | 22:08 |
| wizbit | 'Uninstall Download Update' | 22:08 |
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| freemangordon | click "Update" | 22:08 |
| wizbit | do i need to edit any repo settings before i update? | 22:08 |
| freemangordon | I guess no, if you haven't messed them up | 22:09 |
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| wizbit | i havent touched anything so ill click update :) | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 22:09 |
| wizbit | it says (no updates available) | 22:09 |
| freemangordon | give it some time | 22:09 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | about 3-5 minutes | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | if there are still no updates, click on the menu and select "refresh" | 22:10 |
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| wizbit | i better plug this beast in :) | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | you'll need that anyway | 22:10 |
| wizbit | wow | 22:11 |
| wizbit | it says maemo 5 security update | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | see :P | 22:11 |
| wizbit | ill click that | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 22:11 |
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| freemangordon | wizbit: anyway, I'd recommend you to install CSSU | 22:11 |
| wizbit | excellent :D | 22:11 |
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| freemangordon | as 38-1 breaks A-GPS | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu | 22:12 |
| infobot | [cssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 22:12 |
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| wizbit | shall i continue what im doing now and do that after? | 22:12 |
| freemangordon | sure | 22:12 |
| wizbit | do i need to flash it to get cssu on it? | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | having 38-1 installed won't break CSSU installation | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | no | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | it is againOTA | 22:13 |
| wizbit | awesome, i could of bricked it if i didnt speak to you :) | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | ~ota | 22:13 |
| infobot | it has been said that ota is ssu | 22:13 |
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| wizbit | ill follow what you say | 22:13 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: it is not that easy to brick n900, if possible at all :) | 22:13 |
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| wizbit | this is my first smartphone, after researching this seems the best around | 22:14 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, no, you're wrong, n900 is not a smartphone ;) | 22:14 |
| wizbit | its a computer :D | 22:14 |
| freemangordon | exactly | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | :) | 22:15 |
| wizbit | is it possible to run ssh server on it so i can ssh into it? | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | sure | 22:15 |
| wizbit | wow :D | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | just install openssh from the repos | 22:15 |
| wizbit | simple as apt-get install openssh-server? | 22:15 |
| freemangordon | you'd better use ham | 22:16 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:16 |
| freemangordon | I know, it is slow, but it does more than what apt-get does | 22:16 |
| wizbit | doesnt matter | 22:16 |
| bencoh | hm ? | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | once you're a bit of experienced with maemo, you can apt-get as well | 22:17 |
| wizbit | google shows lots of people 'weaponizing' the n900, should i avoid things like that? | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: hmm? | 22:17 |
| wizbit | and use clean repos instead | 22:17 |
| wizbit | people offer sets of packages for download from various sources | 22:17 |
| freemangordon | WTF is 'weaponizing' supposed to mean | 22:17 |
| wizbit | im not sure | 22:17 |
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| freemangordon | you'd better stick to the 'official' repos, I bet you can find there everything you'll need | 22:18 |
| wizbit | i sure will | 22:18 |
| wizbit | google doesnt show the correct advice sometimes | 22:19 |
| Tekk_ | freemangordon: loading it up with pen test stuff maybe? | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | isn't that a different firmware? | 22:19 |
| Tekk_ | could be | 22:19 |
| * Tekk_ is just guessing | 22:19 | |
| freemangordon | me too | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | (the firmware part) | 22:19 |
| freemangordon | Tekk_: but AFAIK the only thing that is useful and is not in the extras/cssu repos is thumbified OMP | 22:20 |
| freemangordon | and Pali's bme replacement | 22:20 |
| Tekk_ | bme? | 22:21 |
| freemangordon | ~bme | 22:21 |
| infobot | bme is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Software_BME | 22:21 |
| Tekk_ | ah | 22:22 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: how it's going on? | 22:24 |
| wizbit | freemangordon: bar going across, says its updating to 21.2011.38-1 | 22:24 |
| freemangordon | good | 22:24 |
| wizbit | i will do the CSSU update after :) | 22:25 |
| wizbit | then install some stuff like maybe BASH4 and ssh server | 22:25 |
| wizbit | if they are on repo | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: I'd recommend you to install cssu-thumb, but I am biased :) | 22:26 |
| wizbit | ok ill test that out, what is it | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb | 22:26 |
| infobot | well, cssu-thumb is <DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 22:26 |
| wizbit | right, so it will make things run smoother | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | yep | 22:27 |
| wizbit | i sure will install it | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: also, move your swap partition to uSD | 22:27 |
| freemangordon | it makes lots of a difference | 22:27 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:27 |
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| freemangordon | and... | 22:28 |
| wizbit | soon i will be able to ssh into my box and launch a screen session right from the phone | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | tweak IO scheduler a bit, I'll pastebin my settings | 22:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal cssu-thumb | 22:28 |
| infobot | "cssu-thumb" is "<DocScrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb" | 22:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 22:29 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 22:29 |
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| freemangordon | wizbit: http://pastebin.com/PgryaYts | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | make sure to swapon the correct uSD swap partition :) | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | if you decide to use that | 22:31 |
| wizbit | freemangordon: phone just rebooted :D | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | pray :P | 22:31 |
| wizbit | back up :D | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | good | 22:32 |
| wizbit | ill see what version it says now | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | however, /me gtg | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | hight | 22:32 |
| wizbit | updated successfully :D | 22:32 |
| wizbit | ill do the CSSU update when your around next | 22:33 |
| wizbit | if you dont mind | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | wizbit: you don;t really need me | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | just follow the instructions | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu | 22:34 |
| infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | or | 22:34 |
| freemangordon | ~cssu-thumb | 22:34 |
| infobot | i guess cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb | 22:34 |
| wizbit | ace ok | 22:35 |
| wizbit | thanks for your help :D | 22:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I suggest to install BM!! | 22:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and *use* it! | 22:36 |
| wizbit | i will use stable CSSU not testing | 22:36 |
| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: what is BM? | 22:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: honestly!!!! shame on you! >>/sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3 && /sbin/swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p3<< | 22:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm | 22:39 |
| infobot | backupmenu is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975 | 22:39 |
| wizbit | good thinking | 22:39 |
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| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU BM is no.1 in the docs | 22:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I put it there :-) | 22:40 |
| wizbit | heh | 22:41 |
| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: do i need to edit my repo before i can download BM? | 22:41 |
| wizbit | i havent touched any of the settings on my phone so far | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or click http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 22:42 |
| infobot | hmm... jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 22:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Additional_Repositories | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | disable test immediately in HAM "catalogs" | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after you installed what you wanted, DISABLE extras-devel!!! | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NEVER run an "update all" when extras-devel is enabled | 22:45 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:45 |
| wizbit | ill type this on the n900 browser : http://maemo.cloud-7.de/repositories.install | 22:45 |
| wizbit | then disable what you said | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | go ahead | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you can type http://maemo.cloud-7.de the click on repositories.install | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? | 22:46 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | what is wrong with my swapoff/on? | 22:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | missin && | 22:46 |
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| freemangordon | oh, i see | 22:46 |
| freemangordon | anyway, it is like that for the last 3 years or so | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc if friggin uostart knows && | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | so I don;t think it is much of a problem | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | upstart | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | yes, it knows it | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | well, it knows || | 22:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it IS a problem for those who lack the partition on uSD | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | so I guess it knows && as well | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | oh, wait, this is *mine* script :P | 22:48 |
| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: clicked on repositories.install it added the repos and it checking for updates ( i wont install any updates yet) | 22:48 |
| freemangordon | or *my*? | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not a showstopper class of problem, since you'd be amazed how well HD handles RAM shortage | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wizbit: good. click on "install", on "all" then type "backup" on kbd | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if nothing got messed up during last years, you shall see "backup-menu" app among others in the selection | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wizbit: you'll notice HAM taking *ages* when extras-devel catalog/repo got enabled | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | give it 15min of time to comlete | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ham | 22:53 |
| infobot | hmm... ham is Hildon Application Manager. Slow as molasses. Anticipate you got time for a beer or two until it finishes whatever it does | 22:53 |
| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: i am in the catalogues screen, and i think its waiting to update | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what are you up to do? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dosable extras-testing? | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dis* | 22:53 |
| wizbit | DocScrutinizer05: i am in App manager > catalogues as i thought you need to disable some repos first? | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | find extras-testing, click on it | 22:54 |
| wizbit | it says | 22:54 |
| wizbit | Maemo Extras-DEVEL | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | checkmark "disable" | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that one | 22:55 |
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| wizbit | ok | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err nope | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | stop | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-extras-TESTING | 22:55 |
| wizbit | ok ill disable that one instead | 22:55 |
| wizbit | should i disable developers tools (**DOOM!**) | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | later | 22:56 |
| wizbit | so at the moment i have this: | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please don't past all catalogs you got. It's most likely ok anyway | 22:56 |
| wizbit | Maemo Extras-DEVEL - ENABLED Maemo Extras-TESTING - DISABLED developers tools - ENABLED | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just close catalogs menu (click into blurred area) | 22:57 |
| wizbit | ok its checking for updates now | 22:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 22:57 |
| wizbit | right finished | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | will take a while, then you click "download" or "install" or whatever the middle one is called | 22:58 |
| wizbit | ok | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | click "all" upper left | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | type "backup" | 22:58 |
| wizbit | screen has gone black at the moment | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np, will take a while | 22:59 |
| wizbit | maybe its updating something | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it takes AGES | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl+backspace on kbd will allow you to swap to another task to do something more funny while HAM works | 23:00 |
| wizbit | ok :) | 23:01 |
| wizbit | right its finished | 23:01 |
| wizbit | gonna click all | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while you're at it, after installing BM you could straight proceed to installing openSSH(server+client) | 23:01 |
| wizbit | found backup menu :D | 23:02 |
| wizbit | excellent | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and load applet, simple brightness applet | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then disable maemo-extras-devel and close HAM | 23:03 |
| wizbit | install 'applet' ? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | install "load applet" | 23:04 |
| wizbit | ok | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | install "Simple Brightness Applet" | 23:04 |
| wizbit | should i install openssh after CSSU or doesnt that make a difference? | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no diff | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so rather install it right away, an option to open a shell session to phone from PC is invaluable | 23:05 |
| wizbit | good diea | 23:07 |
| wizbit | idea | 23:07 |
| wizbit | right going to install Simple Brightness Applet now | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you think a shell should be confortable, get bash3 | 23:07 |
| wizbit | i am comfortable with shell | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and diffutils-gnu, since messybox diff sucks donkeyballs | 23:08 |
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| wizbit | simple brightness app installed, time for openssh server | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox | 23:08 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got load applet? I consider it indispensable since it gives you an instant idea *why* your device is slow, or eating battery | 23:10 |
| wizbit | nope will install that next | 23:10 |
| wizbit | waiting for app list to pop up again | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's a tiny CPU load and memusage display in systray | 23:10 |
| wizbit | installing :) | 23:11 |
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| wizbit | is messybox bash3 ? | 23:11 |
| wizbit | or a fork of it | 23:12 |
| sixwheeledbeast | AFAIK Upstart will ignore the whole file if there was no 1p3 to swap to. | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after your're done with all that (and didn't forget your root password you've set while installing openSSH), it's time to disable extras-devel and extras-testing and tools repo, then quit HAM, wait 2 minutes (HAM takes time, even to properly quit), then reboot with kbd slide open, to enter BM and do a backup already | 23:13 |
| sixwheeledbeast | upstart runs everything with -e | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | messybox is ... messy err busybox. Bash3 is bash, a proper interactive shell | 23:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is cursed with busybox in stock config | 23:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but you can start a *decent* shell in xterm by simply typing "bash" | 23:14 |
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| wizbit | should i install dropbear ssh server | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 23:14 |
| wizbit | openssh is not listed | 23:15 |
| wizbit | maybe i typed it wrong | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OpenSSH | 23:15 |
| wizbit | found it :D | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | bbl, cya | 23:16 |
| wizbit | thanks for help :D | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, and welcome to the maemo universe. I'm 100% sure you'll fall in love | 23:17 |
| wizbit | i already am :D | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just keep in mind maemo is not exactly debian. Particularly never trus apt or any other installer than HAM. Ask here if you wanna do sth with apt-get on cmdline! | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | l8r | 23:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wizbit: https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2014-04-22.log.html#t2014-04-22T16:02:13 | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2014-04-22.log.html#t2014-04-22T21:20:36 ff | 23:27 |
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