IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2014-04-23

« Tuesday, 2014-04-22 Index Thursday, 2014-04-24 »
DocScrutinizer05however I'm NOT using (and never did) this Skype abomination00:00
DocScrutinizer05known to eat your battery alive00:00
bencohbones and flesh00:00
bencoh(and heart)00:00
DocScrutinizer05:nod:00:01
chem|sthuuh it wasn't a hotline hoax, I really have a 13eur contract now with 100minutes/sms 50sms and 250MB/quota...and music-flat00:01
chem|stmy sister was always joking about her contract and the ancient computer they need to maintain to keep those contracts alive^^00:04
bencoh?00:04
chem|stbencoh: you know the size of your SIM?00:04
DocScrutinizer05o.O00:05
* DocScrutinizer05 fetches caliper00:05
chem|stthink its 74K now... my sis had a 4K SIM and was wondering why she had no working internet on her n90000:05
DocScrutinizer05.oO(???)00:06
DocScrutinizer05how's APN related to size of user storage for contacts etc on SIM?00:07
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DocScrutinizer05how's APN related to SIM at large? except maybe for storing the credentials ("URL" [pinternet.o2online.de], User [internet], Password [internet])00:12
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DocScrutinizer05the IP stack is running on the modem anyway00:13
chem|ston the 4K SIM was a WAP portal preset only00:13
chem|stand that seemed non-existant those 8 years later00:14
bencohchem|st: mine is quite old00:14
bencohlike 10yo00:14
chem|stand of course it was not activated for UMTS00:15
chem|stno idea what that means but they needed to replace the SIM to get it to work00:15
DocScrutinizer05my SM is from 200000:16
DocScrutinizer05SIM00:16
chem|stwhat size?00:16
DocScrutinizer05mini00:16
DocScrutinizer05err00:16
DocScrutinizer05sorry no idea00:16
chem|stI ahve actually no clue how old it was, it might be back from '98 or 9900:17
DocScrutinizer05there are very few options available to rad out the SIM storage size00:17
DocScrutinizer05read*00:17
DocScrutinizer05maybe the according AT command would work via pnatd00:18
DocScrutinizer05but I ddon't know the AT command by heart00:18
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chem|stthe storage size is written on the SIM, at least on those I got00:18
DocScrutinizer05hmm, last time I looked at my SIM must be two years ago00:19
chem|stmy old one has 72k written on it...00:19
DocScrutinizer05ignoring my own advice I don't even remove it on reflashing the firmware00:19
bencohwhy should you anyway ?00:20
DocScrutinizer05~cherry00:20
chem|stI never removed it if not swapping phones...00:20
DocScrutinizer05for example00:20
chem|stwell the sms...00:20
chem|stdon't care00:20
DocScrutinizer05me neither00:20
DocScrutinizer05they already boobytrapped me with that one00:21
DocScrutinizer05so further SMS just cost me a 9ct or sth00:21
DocScrutinizer05not worth the hassle to remove the SIM for that00:21
DocScrutinizer05on other reports there seem to be cases where a garbled contact record on SIM causes modem to blow chunks, and that could easily stop flashing at all00:22
chem|sthow big is the SIM seed anyways? like 128bit? or 256bit? well three times... but that is not even 1k...00:23
DocScrutinizer05then 3rd you just don't need the SIM for flashing, so it's best practice to remove it, so nothing can happen to it, no matter what00:23
chem|stthen some 512bit APN data so we have 70k left for user's contacts?00:23
M4rtinKSIM toolkit ! :D00:24
DocScrutinizer05SAT/STK doesn't work on maemo/BB500:25
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DocScrutinizer05which mostly is considered a grace rather than a flaw00:25
DocScrutinizer05anyway I dunno of any APN that needs SAT to get access to it00:27
DocScrutinizer05some online banking needs SAT, yes00:27
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DocScrutinizer05I wonder when they swapped name from SAT to STK00:28
DocScrutinizer05http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_Application_Toolkit00:28
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DocScrutinizer05~messybox19:21
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, ...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:21
DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1422335#post142233519:21
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:22
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay19:22
DocScrutinizer05~messybox19:23
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:23
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DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. Best you could hope for: a compatible subset, but not even that is happening. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a19:25
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer0519:25
DocScrutinizer05decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:25
DocScrutinizer05~messybox19:25
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. Best you could hope for: a compatible subset, but not even that is happening. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a19:25
DocScrutinizer05dang19:25
DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, messybox is <reply>messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay19:25
DocScrutinizer05~messybox19:25
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils19:25
DocScrutinizer05not to mention the security threat of such an untestable monster19:27
DocScrutinizer05so really brainwashed users think they learned about unix and set suid busybox :-o19:28
Apiclol19:29
DocScrutinizer05Apic: don't laugh! busybox claims to handle that, by dropping permissions when not needed19:30
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DocScrutinizer05nobody seems to ever have dared to really audit it19:30
NIN101like, I don't know, most code?19:31
Apicic19:31
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: don't ask me19:31
DocScrutinizer05I read a 8-word statement, though "BWAHAHA MEH!" and forgot about it19:32
DocScrutinizer05thought*19:32
NIN101busybox is a useful project and it has its place. just for maemo it's a questionable choice.19:33
DocScrutinizer05yes19:33
DocScrutinizer05exactly19:33
DocScrutinizer05see infobot: lean scripting19:33
DocScrutinizer05on a router with no user accounts and only 16MB of ram I can see why you want messybox19:34
NIN101yes.19:35
DocScrutinizer05nobody would even think about installing mc to a router, no?19:35
DocScrutinizer05and it's not like busybox-power is changing the root problem of messybox19:37
NIN101what root problem?19:37
DocScrutinizer05it's just pushing further out of natural habitat a concept that's not able to scale19:38
DocScrutinizer05like, when you can't cut glass with a hammer, build a larger hammer19:39
DocScrutinizer05all busybox fans urgently should try to find a copy of http://www.amazon.ca/Unix-Toolbox-Pike/dp/013614273719:41
DocScrutinizer05"UNIX in a Nutshell" also19:47
DocScrutinizer05even "Classic Shell Scripting: Hidden Commands that Unlock the Power of Unix" is quite recommendable19:50
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DocScrutinizer05[2014-04-20 Sun 21:42:34] <okias> just listening google http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6BHJspyh6s20:41
DocScrutinizer05[2014-04-20 Sun 21:42:46] <okias> presentation, it could be used to complete "neo900"20:41
DocScrutinizer05is just a rename of https://phonebloks.com/en/goals and that got already the deserved bashing20:42
DocScrutinizer05it is a hoax, it stays to be20:42
DocScrutinizer05you CANNOT plug tiny modules like that20:43
DocScrutinizer05Guess why it's called "System on_a Chip (SoC)"20:44
DocScrutinizer05and recet SoC like e.g that used in Jolla itegrate literally *everything* into one chip, to achieve the power-per-buck and size reduction20:45
DocScrutinizer05dang, 'n' broken20:49
DocScrutinizer05and recent SoC like e.g that used in Jolla integrate literally *everything* into one chip, to achieve the power-per-buck and size reduction20:49
Humpelstilzchenget a Zynq7000, there you can use lots of modules ;)20:50
DocScrutinizer05hmm?20:52
DocScrutinizer05is this sth like a SICOMP M80?20:52
Humpelstilzchenits a SoC with an FPGA20:53
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, kinda... ... ... (missing the right word, yawning while searching for it)20:57
DocScrutinizer05SoC with FPGA for the IO20:58
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if such design makes any sense for a smartphone. Maybe for a router with smart SPI FW and high throughput / low latency20:59
DocScrutinizer05splitting out e.g. the GPU from the SoC makes even the SoC *more expensive* thanks to the higher number of IO you need to dedicate to interface between SoC and GPU21:01
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DocScrutinizer05or you accept that your device *has no* GPU and thus cna't do all that 3D and highspeed 2D stuff, and no way to upgrade it21:02
Humpelstilzchenyes, Zynq7000 is more in use in network devices, cameras with integrated processing etc21:03
DocScrutinizer05honestly, read the resppnse to phonebloks, it's a completely silly idea and will never fly the way they suggest it should21:03
DocScrutinizer05response*21:03
DocScrutinizer05it's just a flypaper idea for the technologically ignorant21:04
Apic~SoC21:06
infobotsoc is, like, System On Chip - many embedded cpus include a variety of peripherals as well which makes them more than just a CPU.  Send Out Cards - http://www.sendoutcards.com/  Summer of Code (a google project)  U of U's School of Computing (http://www.cs.utah.edu/)21:06
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DocScrutinizer05[2014-04-23 Wed 19:44:32] <DocScrutinizer05> Guess why it's called "System on_a Chip (SoC)"21:12
DocScrutinizer05check out what TO did with PoP (Package on Package) for N900 OMAP SoC. Then ponder *why* they did this. You'll eventually come to the conclusion that phonebloks is a brainfart21:16
DocScrutinizer05s/TO/TI/21:16
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: check out what TI did with PoP (Package on Package) for N900 OMAP SoC. Then ponder *why* they did this. You'll eventually come to the conclusion that phonebloks is a brainfart21:16
DocScrutinizer05OMAP and PoP is as much phonebloks as it gets, EVER21:17
RaimuI'll be interested to see what the hell Google is going to do with that though21:17
RaimuI wouldn't be surprised if they just stick all the functionality into the core component and all the customization are just dongles for enabling21:19
DocScrutinizer05yep, prolly X-P21:19
RaimuSell the core component super cheap anyhoo and think nobody will crack them21:19
DocScrutinizer05as usual21:19
DocScrutinizer05they already did that with VAXen in 1980 ;-P21:19
DocScrutinizer05"for running this or that, you need this dongle plugged in to your VAX machine's left foobar port!"21:20
DocScrutinizer05btw seems that's exactly what Jolla plans to do with their TOH21:26
DocScrutinizer05at least I can't see any other real purpose, unless eventually a real hw extension rolls out21:27
DocScrutinizer05enable skins by attaching another backcover - _really_ now?21:28
RaimuYeah, so far they're just using those things to appeal to trendy people21:30
DocScrutinizer05yep21:30
RaimuI mean, get a fuchsia TOH and the device skins the UI fuchsia too, clever!21:31
DocScrutinizer05a silly gimmick21:31
DocScrutinizer05and I wonder how much energy they waste by keeping a tag constantly in vicinity of the RFID reader21:32
DocScrutinizer05on each poll for devices in vicinity, the reader needs to read out the TOH tag, to notice "ah, it's _you_ again"21:33
DocScrutinizer05seems they already had to roll out a patch thanks to that21:34
keriobut DocScrutinizer, phoneblocks is the future21:34
DocScrutinizer05yeah, like all future it's uncertain and possibly never will happen21:34
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DocScrutinizer05this is a lil bit less uncertain though ;-P21:35
DocScrutinizer05it definitely will not happen21:35
DocScrutinizer05but who cares, it's the future anyway21:35
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fk_lxDocScrutinizer05: hi, how's going?22:29
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DocScrutinizer05come ci come ca22:34
DocScrutinizer05(pardon my french)22:35
fk_lxdon't ask me to speak German, it would be even worse ;)22:36
fk_lxso how is the Neo900 going?22:36
fk_lxhaven't traced the progress22:36
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, been afk. Neo900 is on track, I'm on "holiday" (hope to make that a *real* holiday for at least a few days to come)23:45
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