IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2013-10-10

*** Kabouik has joined #maemo00:03
*** jrocha has quit IRC00:05
*** Kabouik_ has quit IRC00:05
*** NIN101 has quit IRC00:08
*** Kabouik has quit IRC00:19
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo00:20
*** xes has joined #maemo00:29
*** nox- has joined #maemo00:29
r00t|home"the mans vital organ"...00:30
* DocScrutinizer05 ponders a Neo900 special edition with GSM wave converter foil placed inside the case, which filters hazardous components out of the RF radiation emitted by the phone and WLAN and BT00:32
kolpFor clarification re: USB host mode: USB host with boost means the N900 supplies power to the peripheral device, while USB host with charging means the N900 is being charged e.g. through a hub while at the same time acting as USB host. Is that correct?00:34
DocScrutinizer05yes, this is 100% correct00:36
kolpThanks, DocScrutinizer0500:36
DocScrutinizer05thanks for using hostmode00:36
DocScrutinizer05I gave my hair for making it happen00:37
kolpOh, been using it for a while. I just don't have a usb hub so can't test that.00:37
kolpAnd now I saw
kolpEither I'm misunderstanding him, or he doesn't really have to unplug00:38
infobotsomebody said hostmode-powered was
DocScrutinizer05use a Y-cable00:38
DocScrutinizer05those come with virtually every extrenal USB HDD drive00:39
kolpI had only one, which was broken and didn't even work with the HDD it came with... :)00:40
DocScrutinizer05use the 2nd "power" plug to not plug it to your PC's 2nd USB port but to plug a USB charger to it, thus providing power to the N900 and whatever got attached to the Y-cable's other end00:40
DocScrutinizer05you don't need any USB hub for that00:41
kolpHm, right00:43
*** tzafrir has quit IRC00:49
*** e-yes_ has quit IRC00:54
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo00:57
*** andre__ has quit IRC01:03
*** guerby has quit IRC01:08
*** guerby has joined #maemo01:08
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo01:10
*** tzafrir has quit IRC01:16
*** Martix has joined #maemo01:24
*** divVerent has quit IRC01:28
*** xes has quit IRC01:32
*** robotanarchy_ has joined #maemo01:37
*** robotanarchy has quit IRC01:39
*** robotanarchy_ is now known as robotanarchy01:39
jon_yDocScrutinizer05: radiation out my pants?01:53
jon_yI thought the new in-thing was wireless charging?01:54
jon_yradiation in my house!?01:54
DocScrutinizer05well, I don't know wich direction the radiation takes in *your* case ;-)01:54
jon_ythere is a cell tower next to my house, so radiation everywhere :)01:55
*** florian has quit IRC01:55
*** Hurrian has quit IRC01:57
*** zammy has quit IRC02:03
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo02:05
*** jonwil has joined #maemo02:10
*** rcg has quit IRC02:10
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:11
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo02:12
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC02:18
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo02:18
*** goldkatze has quit IRC02:29
*** hardfalcon1 has quit IRC02:32
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC02:37
*** andre__ has joined #maemo02:41
*** e-yes has joined #maemo02:46
DocScrutinizer05and I thought when the radiation is coming out of your pants, the sending tower must be another sort of tower than a cell tower ;-P02:51
*** trx has quit IRC03:05
*** trx has joined #maemo03:06
*** trx has quit IRC03:06
*** trx has joined #maemo03:06
*** Martix has quit IRC03:08
*** andre__ has quit IRC03:15
*** DrCode has quit IRC03:18
*** kolp has quit IRC03:21
*** DrCode has joined #maemo03:29
*** e_or_m has joined #maemo03:41
*** Kabouik has quit IRC03:46
*** DrCode has quit IRC04:05
*** DrCode has joined #maemo04:09
*** nox- has quit IRC04:13
*** e_or_m has quit IRC04:18
*** Defiant has quit IRC04:23
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo04:23
*** Defiant has joined #maemo04:23
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo04:24
*** dos1 has quit IRC04:31
jonwil'hmmm, interesting, has debug symbols that might show more about what these proprietary things are doing (even if they are Harmattan not Fremantle. they are still somewhat interesting)04:35
jonwilinteresting, some parts of these modules are compiled not with GCC but with the ARM C/C++ compiler04:39
jonwilcant seem to find a suitable tool to dump the dwarf info in a useful format though :P04:43
*** mschlens_ has quit IRC04:56
DocScrutinizer05audiots is an ugly word, my brain refuses to read anything that's not containing the string "idiots"04:58
*** mschlens has joined #maemo05:00
jonwilif I could have any one thing it would be either source code for Fremantle pulseaudio-nokia OR a set of Fremantle binaries that have libcmtspeech as a shared library.05:01
* DocScrutinizer05 *loves* .debĀ” particularly changes is a textfile in a gz in a gz in a pseudo-gz05:01
robbiethe1stBut it's easy to modify, none the less05:01
DocScrutinizer05hail to kde and konqueror which just opens .gz and .deb when clicking on them05:02
robbiethe1stKDE's nice05:03
* DocScrutinizer05 just closed 5 windows, which popped up by following jonwil's URL until visible/readable changes.txt05:03
jonwilIts a pitty that libcmtspeechdata (either the open one in MeeGo or the closed version in Harmattan SDK repo) has no changelog at all05:13
mashinacell network is down here05:13
mashinafeels weird seeing nothing in the signal area05:14
mashinanot even no sim05:14
mashinait feels... empty05:18
jonwilhmmm, libcmtspeech in meego is version 2.0.5, in Fremantle its, and in Harmattan its 2.1.105:35
*** LauRoman has quit IRC05:35
*** triggerhappy_ has joined #maemo05:36
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC05:36
jonwilthe more I look at pulseaudio-nokia, the more I am convinced that its going to be the hardest part of the Neo900 jigsaw puzzle to solve05:50
*** lxp has joined #maemo06:01
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo06:02
*** lxp1 has quit IRC06:04
DocScrutinizer05please explain in neo900 thread, so Nikolaus gets to know. I have a hard time convincing him about tlv320aic3406:24
DocScrutinizer05sure, our modem will have differnt interface anyway, and will not need some of the pa-nokia voodoo since it has built-in echo cancellation and noise suppression06:25
DocScrutinizer05spilling the beans: we plan to open preorder in 1..2 weeks. sth like 100EUR down payment to apply for one of the Neo900. 2000EUR for one of the prototypes. Donations to get your name etched on all PCB otherwise. Aiming at 20k06:28
*** maybeHere has joined #maemo06:30
DocScrutinizer05we might try to get 50% of the aim via direct preorder, other 50% via kickstarter (which has better PR but is a PITA otherwise). If we reach the aim during 2..4 weeks we will start prototype design. Unclear what we'll do when we miss the aim06:31
*** maybeArgh has quit IRC06:33
DocScrutinizer05anyway any dicount will apply only for those who joined the early preorder. later preorders will have regular price06:34
DocScrutinizer05I', a noob at those marketing details and economics, so that's just how I got it what is a possible business plan for initial phase right now. disclaimer: may change, and maybe I even got it wrong06:36
DocScrutinizer05anyway: stay tuned, and keep your purse at reach ;-)06:37
DrCodehi all06:39
DrCodeI have install android in n90006:39
DrCodefro meamo06:39
DrCodeany one using it?06:39
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: btw Option is PCM master, not slave like BB5. So any alsa soundcard device for option modem will be a very natural behaving soundcard, not some weird stuff like that ISI timing adjustment message shite06:39
DocScrutinizer05DrCode: condolences06:40
DrCodehi DocScrutinizer0506:40
DrCodeIt load android ok but I have some issue about voice call , any idea?06:41
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no06:41
DocScrutinizer05never touched *droid, and prolly never will06:41
robbiethe1stAndroid is a decent OS; better than the alternatives, but nowhere in the same class as Maemo06:41
DocScrutinizer05*if* I ever do, then on a genuine android device06:41
robbiethe1stWhich -- I'm thus far convinced -- is the best mobile phone OS ever designed.06:42
DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: ack06:42
DrCodemeamo is the best os , but I have missing apps like waze06:42
DrCodethat I am using in my car06:42
robbiethe1stN900 has maps, doesn't it?06:43
DocScrutinizer05I asked that a zillion times now, so this time I don't care I again forgot what's waze. I seem to better not know, otherwise I would recall06:43
*** tzafrir has quit IRC06:43
robbiethe1stI had to google for it, too06:44
robbiethe1stbut hey, it apparently already has a port for Maemo 506:44
DocScrutinizer05if it's worth using it, it has a maemo5 port06:44
DocScrutinizer05if it has no maemo5 port, rather forget about it06:45
DrCodeI know there is qtwaze06:45
robbiethe1stEh, not sure... Is there a port for the Arduino IDE?06:45
DrCodewitch is not updated and dosn't work well06:45
DrCodecan I run backupmenu with u-boot?06:45
DocScrutinizer05completely unentangled domains06:46
DocScrutinizer05it's just kinda annoying that both check for kbd slider open/closed06:46
DocScrutinizer05I'd prefer one of both to check for a different indication to pop up06:47
DrCodebut what will load before? u-boot or backupmenu?06:47
DocScrutinizer05of course uBoot load first since it's a bootloader06:47
DocScrutinizer05backupmenu is a linux userland app06:47
DocScrutinizer05though a special one06:47
DrCodeI see06:48
DrCodeI see06:48
DrCodei will find it in u-boot?06:48
DocScrutinizer05you will find what?06:48
DrCodeor after I boot it will load backupmenu?06:48
DrCodein u-boot list?06:48
DocScrutinizer05you boot standard maemo, and when kbd open, first app to get started is BM06:49
jonwilanyone know what omap mcbsp is?06:50
DocScrutinizer05Multi Channel Bidir Serial port06:50
DocScrutinizer05or sth like that06:50
jonwilok, but whats connected to it on the N900?06:51
jonwilaudio chip? Cellular audio interface?06:51
DocScrutinizer05ask freemangordon, maybe others just call it MIPI HSI06:51
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: there are like 3 or 4 McBSP interfaces on OMAP242006:52
freemangordonjonwil: DSP, AUDIO, CMT :)06:53
DocScrutinizer05ola fmg06:53
jonwilok, so /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2 would point to what exactly?06:53
jonwilAudio chip?06:53
jonwilCMT audio?06:53
DocScrutinizer05McBSP == HSI?06:53
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no06:53
freemangordonit is used for... sideband audio06:54
freemangordonor whatever it was called06:54
freemangordonjonwil: ^^^06:54
jonwilso its part of the audio chip?06:54
jonwilor the CMT?06:54
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: mompls, need to check schem06:54
freemangordonBSP is a bus, he same way SSI is06:54
DocScrutinizer05MCBSP2: audio codec tvl320aic3406:55
freemangordonjust mind you it is 5 to 7 here and I just started my first coffee :)06:55
DocScrutinizer05I just wonderd if I should have my last coffe or rather a nap, since you know... it's 5:56 here06:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: check McBSP106:56
freemangordoniirc CMT uses it06:57
DocScrutinizer05McBSP4 : RAPU06:57
DocScrutinizer05McBSP1 : WLAN06:57
freemangordonhmm, no, this is muxed to SSI06:57
freemangordonMcBSP4 that is06:57
DocScrutinizer05McBSP3 : BT06:58
DocScrutinizer05RAPU == ISI06:58
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: >>BSP is a bus, he same way SSI is<< dang, tha last few days all your moaning and quoting sources made me think SSI == HSI07:00
freemangordonsure thing, the difference is in speed07:00
freemangordonSSI is up to 110 Mbit07:01
freemangordonnot sure about HSI, but it is higher07:01
freemangordonthe same thing we have07:03
freemangordonSSI === OMAP3, HSI == OMAP4 and higher07:03
freemangordon"Supports HSI(OMAP4+) and SSI(OMAP3) "07:04
DocScrutinizer05>>HSI link is the recommended IPC for OMAP4 modem connectivity. It offers a high speed multi-channel interface to connect 3G and 4G (up to LTE Category 3) modems. The OMAP HSI driver supports both OMAP MIPI HSI (as defined in MIPI documentation mipi_HSI-PL_specification_v01-01-00a.pdf) and OMAP SSI devices through different device files, and a generic SW driver.<<07:04
DocScrutinizer05"buffered", not "bidir"07:09
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC07:12
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: so you say BB5/RAPU is connected via (some of) McBSP4 balls on OMAP, but those balls are ModeN-muxed to SSI instead of McBSP?07:26
DocScrutinizer05not easy to spot for an EE like me, from schem07:26
freemangordoncheck the schematic on p.207:27
DocScrutinizer05makes sense since SSI~=HSI and HSI is THE interface for 3G/4G07:27
DocScrutinizer05since no datasheets for BB5 I thought McBSP == SSI07:28
DocScrutinizer05been mistaken07:28
DocScrutinizer05seems McBSP is a glorified PCM/IIS07:28
DocScrutinizer05it's just funny since HSI pretty much matches the description of multichannel buffered serial protocol07:30
DocScrutinizer05on a functional level07:30
*** SAiF has quit IRC07:30
freemangordondamn, upstream broke video playback :(07:31
DocScrutinizer05and since MIPI HSI is (C), I thought this is TI's proprietary name for it, similar to what you often see for I2C07:31
freemangordonframebuffer memory cannot be allocated07:31
DocScrutinizer05prolly somebody else already seized it07:32
freemangordonI don;t think so, seems noone is testing :(07:32
freemangordonbut me :D07:33
freemangordonthey removed VRAM allocation in 3.8 and moved to dma API07:33
freemangordonwhich uses CMA07:33
freemangordonunfortunatley CMA is not good enough to find a contignious 2 MB block of memory, despite I reserved 64MB for it07:34
jonwilThat last post explains whats up with pulseaudio-nokia and pulseaudio07:34
DocScrutinizer05(HSI) try to find that friggin mipi_HSI-PL_specification_v01-01-00a.pdf, it's more sekrit than the bootloader seckey07:35
DocScrutinizer05MIPI is a plague07:35
*** Custodian has joined #maemo07:36
jonwilI see what you mean about that pdf, plenty of people who say "read that PDF" but no links to it anywhere07:36
freemangordonI guess we'll just have to revert that, I won;t dive into kernel MM system in an attemt to fiz CMA07:37
freemangordonfix even07:38
*** trx has quit IRC07:39
jonwilanyhow, I can say that we will have to identify if pulseaudio-nokia relies on the specifics and characteristics of any parts of the audio system (e.g. does xprot rely on the specifics of the N900 speakers, does pulseaudio-nokia cmt voice bits rely on the specifics of the N900 cellular modem other than the libcmtspeech interface, etc)07:40
jonwilBut I do know for a fact that there is a direct tie between pulseaudio-nokia and the tvl320aic3407:41
jonwiland a direct tie between the statically linked libcmtspeech and the cellular modem07:41
freemangordonjonwil: that could be just "neable" sysfs entry07:41
jonwilBeyond that we need to do some identifying07:41
jonwiland no its more than that07:41
freemangordonjonwil: what entry it uses?07:42
jonwilthere are references to /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_ch0gain, /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_ch1gain, /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable and /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_taps07:42
jonwilas well as to /sys/power/vdd2_lock07:43
freemangordonthe last one is easy07:43
jonwilyeah I figured07:43
freemangordonit just makes sure there is enough bandwidth in interconnect07:43
jonwilAll the evidence that I have shows that using the same tvl320aic34 chip as the N900 will make it much easier to keep pulseaudio-nokia working correctly07:44
jonwilThere may be other bits we want to reuse too, I dont know enough about the other audio hardware of the N900 to say for sure07:45
DocScrutinizer05we might want to copycat the headset detection07:48
*** xjiujiu has joined #maemo07:49
DocScrutinizer05everything around N4007 N400807:49
DocScrutinizer05and ECI_AD07:49
DocScrutinizer05actually I pointed pali to a ECI (multibutton wired headset) driver for N900 android just a few days ago07:50
jonwilDocScrutinizer05: Does what I wrote help explain to Nikolaus why we need to copy bits of the N900 audio subsystem in Neo900?07:50
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: see my answer :-)07:50
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: jonwil: we need to come up with a stopgap solution for dialer&audio for Neo90007:53
DocScrutinizer05so early adopters can somehow *use* the phone even when PA adaption and RE not yet finished and tested07:53
DocScrutinizer05I would be willing to completely tear down PA to enable phone operation07:54
DocScrutinizer05making phone standby and e.g. MP3 playback mutually exclusive07:54
DocScrutinizer05I wouldn't care if this bandaid doesn't support BT headsets, even wired headsets (though those should be easy, once handset audio works for cmt)07:55
jonwilok, so I wonder if pulseaudio-nokia depends on specifics of speaker amp, speakers, microphone, microphone interface, headphone amp, FMTX, FMRX or Bluetooth audio07:56
DocScrutinizer05porting a dead simple dialer form e.g. SHR should suffice07:56
jonwilyeah for all that we could use whatever GTA04 is using07:57
jonwili.e. GTA04 cellular modem audio07:57
jonwilwhich is already supporting the Option stuff07:57
jonwiland fsogsmd from GTA04 for cellular modem functionality07:57
jonwiland whatever GTA04 has for calls and SMS07:57
jonwilthat would work for stopgap07:57
jonwilok so we need to ID if pulseaudio-nokia references specifics of any of the other audio related components other than the tvl320aic3407:59
jonwile.g. if it does audio processing based on the exact characteristics of the microphone or speakers07:59
jonwilor speaker amp07:59
jonwilor whatever07:59
DocScrutinizer05for your question above: speaker amp 0, speakers well dont worry, mic 0, mic IF 0, HP amp 0, FMTX FMRX needs further investigation since will differ from N900, BT same07:59
jonwilNo reason not to use the same N900 speakers (they will fit best in the case if nothing else)08:00
DocScrutinizer05we will use same speakers08:01
DocScrutinizer05when we use better speakers, they simply will be better08:01
DocScrutinizer05no negative impact on PA crap08:01
keriodoesn't PA do some sort of trickery to not blow up the speakers at high volume?08:02
DocScrutinizer05worst case XPROT doesn't exploit full capabilities of better speakers08:02
kerioyou won't need that with better speakers08:02
keriono i mean08:02
keriothat's bad08:03
DocScrutinizer05worst case XPROT doesn't exploit full capabilities of better speakers08:03
DocScrutinizer05but we won't adapt XPROT to work better for better speakers08:03
DocScrutinizer05we simply nuke it08:04
*** otep_ is now known as otep08:04
keriohow do you get better speakers that fit in the n900?08:04
DocScrutinizer05XPROT is a silly dynamic compressor/limiter and a highpass filter08:04
kerioif they existed, someone would've already tried it08:04
DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus tells the knowles speakers are same formfactor and footprint, just 36Ohm instead of the 7Ohm of the speakers in N90008:06
DocScrutinizer05I don't worry08:06
jonwilok, in any case we do have reverse engineering to do on pulseaudio-nokia for cmtspeech if nothing else08:06
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I thought there is some FOSS cmtspeech which got used in SHR?08:08
DocScrutinizer05at least for basing an own driver on it, which i helped to design a bit08:09
jonwilthere is foss cmtspeech in meego repo08:09
jonwilbut the problem we have is that libcmtspeech is statically linked into pulseaudio-nokia-voice remember08:10
DocScrutinizer05cmtaspeech is a weird silly thing that feeds chunks of audio to cmt in sync with the timing correction messages that the cmt sends to APE08:10
DocScrutinizer05yep, I remember08:10
jonwiland also the foss cmtspeech is quite a few versions ahead of the one Fremantle has08:10
DocScrutinizer05well, it seems to work for BB508:11
jonwilit does but the interface to the rest of the pulseaudio stuff has likely changed08:11
DocScrutinizer05which interface, when in fremantle it's linked08:12
DocScrutinizer05you mean the function calls available?08:13
DocScrutinizer05I don't think they changed08:13
jonwilI mean the interface we need to know so we can rip parts out of pulseaudio-nokia-voice and replace with something new08:13
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: the Options have built-in echo cancellation and noise suppression. And a way cleaner protocol than the BB5. I suggest to replace pulseaudio-nokia-voice by a plain bridge interface to a alsa soundcard that represents the Option PCM audio08:18
DocScrutinizer05ISI has no way to do proper realtime PCM or other audio, thus it does time adjust messages and cmtspeech sends 5ms chunks (burst) on a pace it adjusts according to those time adjust msgs08:21
DocScrutinizer05Options are PCM master, thus a pretty standard soundcard basically08:22
DocScrutinizer05you have a dedicated PCM interface that pulls frame by frame realtime from a IIS interface on the OMAP08:22
DocScrutinizer05pulseaudio-nokia-voice doesn't need to do much, basically it doesn't need to do *anything* for Option08:23
DocScrutinizer05at least that's what I think right now08:24
jonwilpulseaudio-nokia-voice does a lot more than it looks at first glance08:25
DocScrutinizer05maybe it should convert whatever input it gets to a mono signal @ 8kHz08:25
DocScrutinizer05so we need to find out what it does08:26
DocScrutinizer05pulseaudio-nokia-voice that is08:26
jonwilyes we do08:26
jonwilits got xprot, agc, drc, temprature read from BME, aec and more08:27
jonwilas well as cmtspeech08:27
DocScrutinizer05ooh, for inbound audio08:28
DocScrutinizer05agc, aec, drc(?) are already in Option08:28
DocScrutinizer05nfc what for it needs temperature08:29
DocScrutinizer05aah xprot08:29
DocScrutinizer05cmtspeech is a slave<->master converter basically08:30
DocScrutinizer05which we don't need for Option either08:30
jonwilalso, it does stuff with voip08:30
DocScrutinizer05wel NO!08:31
jonwilthe source filenames I can see in the .so file include voice-voip-source.c, voice-voip-sink.c, voice-util.c, voice-temperature.c, voice-sidetone.c, voice-raw-source.c, voice-raw-sink.c voice-optimized.c, voice-mainloop-handler.c, voice-hw-source-output.c, voice-hw-sink-input.c, voice-event-forwarder.c, voice-cs-call-sink-input.c, voice-cmtspeech.c, voice-aep-sink-input.c, timestamp.c,...08:31
jonwil...module-nokia-voice.c and eq_fir.c08:31
DocScrutinizer05our Option *IS* identical to a VoIP connection, basically08:31
jonwildoes it do sidetone?08:31
*** DrCode has quit IRC08:31
DocScrutinizer05dunno, sidetone is overrated08:31
*** Timmy has joined #maemo08:32
DocScrutinizer05sidetone is a silly -18dB feedback from mic to earpiece, to comfort the user by hearing his own voice silently in hte earpiece08:32
DocScrutinizer05you probably wouldn't even notice when sidetone missing08:33
*** DrCode has joined #maemo08:34
DocScrutinizer05maybe pulseaudio-nokia-voice also creates comfort noise that's for givibg user a audio feedback during silence periods, so user doesn't think the call stalled08:34
DocScrutinizer05when far end doesn't talk at all, no data gets transferred to save bandwidth and traffic. receiver side fills in confort noise (mute pink noise or whatever) during those periods08:35
DocScrutinizer05I haven't checked Option datasheets yet, but I guess Option doing *all* this on-board08:36
* DocScrutinizer05 wishes konttori was around, to ask him about that stuff regarding BB508:37
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: think of BB5 like a raw data transceiver which happens to have a GSM codec in datapath. everything else audio processing is done on APE, probably because N900 product specs specified that the audio is APE centric08:40
DocScrutinizer05Option otoh is a self-conprised complete phone08:41
DocScrutinizer05that just has PCM for mic and speaker08:41
jonwilyeah I suspect option modem was designed in part for use in usb cellular data sticks and things08:41
*** Timmy has quit IRC08:41
DocScrutinizer05we really don't need much of whatever pulseaudio-nokia-voice might do08:41
DocScrutinizer05but for maemo an option module PCM and a SIP PCM is absolutely identical08:42
DocScrutinizer05maybe this gives you some ideas ;-)08:43
DocScrutinizer05we could pretend Option speaks RTP08:43
DocScrutinizer05and wrap it into a VoIP account08:44
DocScrutinizer05pulseaudio-nokia-voice shouldn't notice any difference08:45
DocScrutinizer05I actually think Option talks 711a08:45
DocScrutinizer05or sth *very* similar08:46
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: our problem is ped and the audio routing and switching of the same08:49
*** valerius has quit IRC08:52
*** DrCode has quit IRC08:59
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC09:00
*** DrCode has joined #maemo09:01
*** goldkatze has joined #maemo09:02
jonwil`yeah we need to deal with closed  alsa-policy-enforcement09:03
jonwiland also closed policy-settings-rx5109:03
jonwilwell policy-settings-rx51 has been partially decompiled09:03
jonwilbut not completly09:03
jonwiland I dont know if the decompile we have is or isn't a 100% decompile09:03
freemangordonjonwil: I think we should trust Pali it is09:04
freemangordonand it is in CSSU since ages09:04
jonwilok, but its not completly decompiled09:04
jonwilthe dresc file09:04
* DocScrutinizer05 starts to wonder if we could kick ped and PA and all that crap completely, and replace it by sth we designed... but... will be rather a long term project09:07
*** freemangordon_ has joined #maemo09:07
*** freemangordon has quit IRC09:07
jonwilI think we can figure out partially what module-nokia-voice is doing by comparing earliest module-meego-voice to binary of module-nokia-voice and matching up functions09:07
DocScrutinizer05question is if we need to do it at all09:08
jonwilI think we do09:08
*** valerius has joined #maemo09:08
jonwilIts doing things not just for cellular audio but for other things09:08
DocScrutinizer05so just keep it?09:09
jonwilwe could try and run the Neo900 without that module and see what happens09:09
DocScrutinizer05we could try to create a SIP call via alsacard cmt rather than via telepathy and RTP09:10
DocScrutinizer05whatever RTP interface SIP is using/creating that pulseaudio-nokia-voice is connecting to and piping audio data to it and from, we could just hijack it and redirect it to cmt PCM09:12
DocScrutinizer05don't you think we could?09:13
*** node00 has quit IRC09:13
DocScrutinizer05aiui this would need zilch patching or RE on pulseaudio-nokia-voice09:14
*** tom has quit IRC09:18
*** Timmy has joined #maemo09:30
*** tom has joined #maemo09:39
*** DrCode has quit IRC09:41
*** DrCode has joined #maemo09:42
*** MartinK_N9 has joined #maemo09:44
*** HylianSavior has quit IRC09:50
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo09:51
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo09:52
*** XATRIX has joined #maemo09:55
*** tzafrir has quit IRC09:56
jonwilwe have no clue what pulseaudio-nokia-voice will do if it cant find /dev/cmt_speech or if it cant properly talk to it09:59
freemangordon_we ave, this is what was happening before we had SSI driver running :)10:00
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC10:00
jonwilok, what happens?10:02
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo10:02
freemangordon_it just spits some errors in syslog10:03
freemangordon_you can test it easily10:03
freemangordon_just "stop pulseaudio;rmmod cmt_speech;start pulseaudio"10:03
*** Timmy has quit IRC10:04
ApicA wonderful good Pungenday Morning (UGT) to You all!10:06
*** MartinK_N9_ has joined #maemo10:09
*** MartinK_N9 has quit IRC10:11
*** jmlich has joined #maemo10:14
*** tom has quit IRC10:17
*** tom has joined #maemo10:17
*** utanapischti has quit IRC10:29
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo10:29
*** zammy has joined #maemo10:33
*** Martix has joined #maemo10:38
*** LauRoman has quit IRC10:41
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo10:42
*** florian_kc has quit IRC10:42
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo10:42
*** florian_kc is now known as florian10:42
*** eMHa_ has joined #maemo10:43
*** Pali has joined #maemo10:49
*** MartinK_N9_ has quit IRC10:49
*** MartinK_N9_ has joined #maemo10:49
DocScrutinizer05 FPTF mantra10:53
*** Martix has quit IRC10:53
DocScrutinizer05btw how would the situation on Neo900 differ form a N900 with broken cmt?10:54
DocScrutinizer05afaik you can still use such phone to do SIP calls10:54
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo11:03
*** bef0rd has quit IRC11:06
*** croppa has joined #maemo11:16
*** githogori has quit IRC11:19
troulouliou_devDocScrutinizer05, can i disable the rotating deamon in cssu ; it bugs too much for me11:26
*** SmilybOrg has joined #maemo11:28
*** SmilybOrg is now known as Guest9701511:29
*** jeverling has quit IRC11:31
*** jeverling has joined #maemo11:31
infobotfrom memory, jrtools is
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC11:32
DocScrutinizer05some gconf keys11:32
DocScrutinizer05gui-may-rotate=no or sth like that11:33
DocScrutinizer05beware! touching the rotation-lock systray/menu button will revert that, so you need to set those keys again11:34
DocScrutinizer05thus I made me a 2liner bash script11:34
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo11:35
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat `which no-portrait-gconfkey`11:36
DocScrutinizer05gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false11:36
DrCodehi all11:36
DrCodeI want to reflesh n90011:36
DrCodeI have u-boot installed11:36
DrCodeWhen I poweron and press u it go directly to u-boot, any idea please?11:36
DocScrutinizer05your battery isn't charged11:37
*** croppa has quit IRC11:37
*** dhbiker has quit IRC11:38
DocScrutinizer05when battery charged, and holding 'u' then plugging to charger, it must stay on NOKIA screen with usb symbol upper right. If it doesn't, your battery is not fully charged, or your charger or USB is broken11:39
DrCodeI see11:39
DrCodeok, thankyou11:39
DrCodeI am charging it now11:40
*** tzafrir has quit IRC11:40
DocScrutinizer05or the 'u' key ;-P11:42
DocScrutinizer05or you're the one who just developed a new NOLO bootloader11:42
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo11:43
DrCodeif I connect usb cable and make boot with u key , it can work ?11:44
DrCodeor I will need to full charge battery first11:44
DocScrutinizer05first charge your battery11:45
DrCodeI have played with niroaid11:45
DocScrutinizer05unless your charging is broken, in which case you got a problem11:45
DrCodeThank You11:46
*** freemangordon_ is now known as freemangordon11:49
*** Timmy has joined #maemo11:49
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo11:52
*** Gost_16287 has joined #maemo11:55
*** Gost_16287 is now known as trx11:55
*** trx has joined #maemo11:56
*** Timmy_ has joined #maemo11:56
*** Timmy has quit IRC11:57
*** MartinK_N9_ has quit IRC11:58
*** trx has quit IRC12:03
troulouliou_devDocScrutinizer05, ok thanks12:03
troulouliou_devihave a bug with freemantle that i aleady had inthe past but it seems more oftensince i switched to cssu; randomlyafter somehours of usingthe phone, i can not "click" any buttn/wifdget onthe desktop12:05
troulouliou_devi need to launch the start menu and launch application or reboot th ephone12:05
troulouliou_dev(sorry backspace broken on netbook)12:05
troulouliou_devi have a bug with freemantle that i aleady had in the past but it seems more often since  i switched to cssu; randomly after some hours of using the phone, i can not "click" any button/widget on the desktop12:06
*** trx has joined #maemo12:10
*** trx has joined #maemo12:10
*** lexik has joined #maemo12:18
*** trx has quit IRC12:19
*** lbt has quit IRC12:23
*** trx has joined #maemo12:23
*** lexik has quit IRC12:24
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo12:26
*** trx has quit IRC12:28
*** lexik has joined #maemo12:28
*** lbt has joined #maemo12:28
*** lbt has quit IRC12:28
*** lbt has joined #maemo12:28
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC12:32
*** lbt has quit IRC12:32
*** lbt has joined #maemo12:32
DrCodeWhen My charger is connected, I can't boot n900?12:35
*** Timmy_ has quit IRC12:37
chem|stthedead1440: "such BS"(talk report) ... you have to live with dumb people and doc replied properly, it's not like spamming the thread with posts12:37
*** pcfe has joined #maemo12:40
chem|stthedead1440: want moderation rights in Maemo5?12:40
*** kolp has joined #maemo12:43
*** triggerhappy_ has quit IRC12:52
*** andre__ has joined #maemo12:52
jogaDrCode, if you ran out of battery it might not boot through until it has been charged enough, I usually let it charge for a few minutes, disconnect charger, turn it on until I see the code entry keypad and then plug it back12:57
*** triggerhappy has joined #maemo12:59
*** Pali has quit IRC13:09
*** tzafrir has quit IRC13:12
*** utanapischti has quit IRC13:14
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo13:26
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo13:26
*** lizardo has joined #maemo13:37
*** SAiF has joined #maemo13:38
*** e-yes has quit IRC13:47
*** Hurrian has quit IRC14:02
chem|stkolp: an admin team is asigned, community representatives need to be voted on - councils BoDs etc - and the active userbase is >100 so yes {(Currently Active Talk Users: 676 (69 members and 607 guests)}14:05
*** tzafrir has quit IRC14:05
*** lexik has quit IRC14:10
*** woodong50- has joined #maemo14:14
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo14:14
*** Apic is now known as GNUApic14:16
*** GNUApic is now known as Apic14:16
jonwilhmmm, what to reverse engineer next...14:18
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo14:19
SAiFI wonder whether there be any copyright issues?14:19
jonwilcopyright issues with what?14:20
Apicjonwil: You could build a GPS-Driver for NITDroid. *duck&run*14:20
jonwilI refuse to touch the abomination that is NITDroid14:20
jonwiland I have already given up messing with the GPS for now, its too complex :P14:20
SAiFusing nokia casing14:22
SAiFI am totally misunderstanding i think14:22
jonwilI think Nokia doesn't care so much unless you are producing devices that claim to be Nokia devices but which arent14:23
jonwili.e. trademark violation14:23
*** pcfe has quit IRC14:23
kolpjonwil: How about that plugin that shows the wifi icon in the status bar (connui-*?)?14:24
kolpIt'd be great to have a wifi strength indicator there, like in the menu if you tap the sttausbar14:25
jonwilAlready tried that one before, couldn't get anywhere with some of the stuff in libconnui that it was using14:25
kolpchem|st: Yes, I know about the admin team, council, BoD. I was just wondering if the council was still needed.14:26
kolpjonwil: Hm, too bad14:26
kolpneeded and/or necessary14:26
kolpjonwil: What about that lib that's responsible for corrupting the events database? (rtcom-*)14:30
jonwilrtcom-eventlogger is already foss14:30
kolpHas anyone attempted to fix that bug?14:33
jonwilno idea14:35
chem|stkolp: true14:36
kolpGiven that there is (1) no voting infrastructure, (2) (so far) no one running for council, it might be worthwile to consider liquidating the council in a controlled way before it collapses14:40
kolp(3) questionable need (IMHO)14:41
kolpjonwil: rtcom-accounts-ui? :)14:43
kolpHm, probaly it's already possible to clone that14:43
kolpBased on telepathy14:43
jonwilnope, might take another look at connui-statusbar-internet (widget for data status)14:45
jonwilWhat I wouldn't give for the chance to pick the brain of some Nokia pulseaudio people and find out just what things like mudrc, stw and some of these other strange terms actually mean14:47
jonwilbut thats never going to happen so maybe I should give up on PulseAudio for good14:48
* jonwil looks at connui-statusbar-internet14:51
* jonwil sees all the undocumented libconnui calls14:52
* jonwil remembers why he gave up on trying to figure that mess out14:52
*** r00t|home has quit IRC14:56
*** SpeedEvil_ has joined #maemo15:01
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC15:01
*** r00t|home has joined #maemo15:03
jonwilAll of the interesting/useful bits of the N900 system are too hard to reverse engineer :(15:04
*** uen| has joined #maemo15:04
*** uen has quit IRC15:08
*** uen| is now known as uen15:08
Macerlike conversations?15:11
Macerremember when nokia was trumpeting the "open community" when that was en vogue?15:12
MohammadAGI actually miss conversations15:16
MohammadAGI don't miss its slowness though15:17
zammy...n900 with arch? possible?15:18
zammy uhm...15:18
*** pcfe has joined #maemo15:20
*** e-yes has joined #maemo15:22
*** Pali has joined #maemo15:25
*** Hurrian has quit IRC15:25
*** tzafrir has quit IRC15:26
*** e-yes has quit IRC15:34
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo15:35
*** e-yes has joined #maemo15:36
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo15:39
*** guerby has quit IRC15:42
*** guerby has joined #maemo15:53
*** guerby has quit IRC16:07
*** SAiF has quit IRC16:09
*** guerby has joined #maemo16:10
*** e-yes has quit IRC16:11
freemangordonMohammadAG: slowness? compared to what, apple phone?16:14
*** e-yes has joined #maemo16:16
*** RiD has joined #maemo16:19
*** RiD has quit IRC16:24
*** RiD has joined #maemo16:28
*** RiD has quit IRC16:33
*** RiD has joined #maemo16:35
*** SpeedEvil_ has quit IRC16:39
*** RiD has quit IRC16:40
*** SpeedEvil has joined #maemo16:42
*** SpeedEvil has quit IRC16:49
*** SpeedEvil_ has joined #maemo16:49
*** rcg has joined #maemo16:51
*** frafl has joined #maemo16:52
*** frafl has quit IRC17:07
*** shentey has joined #maemo17:09
*** japa-fi has quit IRC17:15
*** japa-fi has joined #maemo17:15
*** dos1 has joined #maemo17:17
*** japa-fi has quit IRC17:26
*** SpeedEvil_ is now known as SpeedEvil17:30
*** xjiujiu has quit IRC17:32
*** pcfe has quit IRC17:39
*** pcfe has joined #maemo17:39
*** japa-fi has joined #maemo17:41
*** andre__ has quit IRC17:57
MohammadAGfreemangordon, just about anything really18:05
MohammadAGusing browserd instead of a native list was a sloppy mess18:05
MohammadAGreminds me of Samsung18:06
*** jonwil has quit IRC18:19
*** troulouliou_dev has quit IRC18:27
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo18:28
*** sr71 has quit IRC18:31
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo18:31
*** XDS2010 has quit IRC18:33
*** sr71 has joined #maemo18:33
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC18:34
*** lenoch has joined #maemo18:35
*** HylianSavior has joined #maemo18:36
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo18:39
*** tzafrir has quit IRC18:40
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo18:48
*** pcfe has quit IRC18:52
*** e-yes has quit IRC19:01
*** tzafrir has quit IRC19:01
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo19:13
*** node00 has joined #maemo19:13
DefiantAny recommendation for a n900 charger?19:19
keriothe nokia one19:19
kerioand that's about it19:19
mashinai use a nexus 4 one fine19:19
freemangordonAC10 (what cerio said)19:20
Defiantaah thats what its called19:20
*** triggerhappy has quit IRC19:26
mashinaisn't the n800 one ac4?19:27
*** tzafrir has quit IRC19:28
Defiantn800 or n900? ac4 doesn't sem to have micro usb19:28
DrCodeI don't replace my n90019:29
DrCodeI even bout two now19:29
DrCodetwo new bare phone19:29
*** piggz has quit IRC19:44
*** piggz has joined #maemo19:44
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo20:13
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo20:18
*** jagadaga has joined #maemo20:20
*** piggz has quit IRC20:30
*** XDS2010 has joined #maemo20:35
*** jrocha has joined #maemo20:39
*** jagadaga has left #maemo20:56
*** Guest97015 is now known as Smily21:10
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC21:11
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo21:15
*** florian has quit IRC21:18
*** sr71 has quit IRC21:18
*** XATRIX has quit IRC21:18
*** japa-fi has quit IRC21:21
*** piggz has joined #maemo21:24
*** at1as has quit IRC21:25
*** at1as has joined #maemo21:28
*** sr71 has joined #maemo21:31
*** LauRoman has quit IRC21:32
*** Kabouik has joined #maemo21:33
*** bef0rd has quit IRC21:38
*** japa-fi has joined #maemo21:39
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo21:41
*** dos1 has quit IRC21:42
*** piggz has quit IRC21:43
*** LauRoman has joined #maemo21:44
*** LauRoman has quit IRC21:46
*** Vlad_on_the_road has joined #maemo21:47
*** piggz has joined #maemo21:47
*** florian has joined #maemo21:58
*** SAiF has joined #maemo21:58
*** lenoch has quit IRC22:02
*** qwazix_ has joined #maemo22:07
*** qwazix_ has quit IRC22:07
*** sq-one has joined #maemo22:08
*** tzafrir has quit IRC22:12
*** sq-one has quit IRC22:30
*** sq-one has joined #maemo22:32
*** johnsu01` has joined #maemo22:32
*** johnsu01 has quit IRC22:32
*** piggz has quit IRC22:33
*** johnsu01` has quit IRC22:36
*** xes has joined #maemo22:37
*** johnsu01 has joined #maemo22:42
*** Omegamoon has joined #maemo22:43
*** johnsu01 has quit IRC22:45
*** johnsu01 has joined #maemo22:45
*** Omegamoon has left #maemo22:46
*** tzafrir has joined #maemo22:55
*** Ken-Young has joined #maemo23:07
Ken-YoungPlease forgive this off-topic message, but folks lucky enough to live in Europe will be able to see three *simultaneous* total solar eclipses on Jupiter tomorrow night from  4:32 to 5:37 UT.   You'll need at least a 5 cm diameter telescope to see it.23:10
*** valerius has quit IRC23:13
*** tzafrir has quit IRC23:14
*** florian has quit IRC23:19
*** perlite has quit IRC23:21
*** florian has joined #maemo23:22
*** perlite has joined #maemo23:23
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo23:23
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo23:23
*** perlite has quit IRC23:25
*** perlite has joined #maemo23:25
*** eMHa_ has quit IRC23:27
*** perlite has quit IRC23:28
*** perlite has joined #maemo23:28
*** bef0rd has quit IRC23:29
*** Ken-Young has quit IRC23:31
*** florian has quit IRC23:35
DocScrutinizer05((<kolp> (3) questionable need (IMHO))) you will reconsider when infra goes down since no entity is taking care of administrative issues. but then it's too late23:35
*** florian has joined #maemo23:36
kolpDocScrutinizer05: Nah, you misunderstood :)23:36
kolpI'm not saying all this should be abandoned. I was just wondering if a voted-in council is necessary23:37
kolpOf course someone has to look after the infra23:37
DocScrutinizer05what else if not a voted council? a council of dictators self-appointed for lifetime?23:37
kolpBut a appointed-by-the-BoD (e.g.) might do, too23:38
*** zammy has quit IRC23:38
kolps/might/admin team might/23:38
infobotkolp meant: But a appointed-by-the-BoD (e.g.) admin team might do, too23:38
DocScrutinizer05since that is what you basically will get when council vanishes and HiFo takes over (not that HiFo in itself was any dictatorship, but there's no provision of re-elections in HiFo when council vanishes)23:39
*** zammy has joined #maemo23:40
kolpYes, and I was wondering if it made sense to take down the council in a controlled way before it falls apart by itself by non-vote23:40
DocScrutinizer05that's incredibly insane and silly and rogue when an institution like HiFo appoints their own controlling entity23:40
DocScrutinizer05kolp: please read the bylaws and rules. Council CANNOT self-abolish23:41
DocScrutinizer05and technically council >> HiFo23:41
DocScrutinizer05IOW HiFo is council's (and thus community's) treasurer23:42
DocScrutinizer05council is community's (YOUR!) only channel into participating in decisions about maemo23:43
*** Pali has quit IRC23:44
DocScrutinizer05it's like suggesting parliament self-abolishes and ministry of finance appoint a new parliament23:44
*** Vlad_on_the_road has quit IRC23:46
DocScrutinizer05HiFo not even supposed to have competences in deciding e.g. which packages need to get removed from extras, or which sysops get appointed for techstaf23:46
DocScrutinizer05now they shall appoint a new council that does this job for them? why? because of community too lazy to vote?23:47
kolpMaybe I'm not quite up2date with what the council does or is supposed to do. But given that there is seemingly little interest in the upcoming votes so I was just wondering if tze council is something that could be streamlined a bit. Perfectly fine with me if it stays :)23:47
DocScrutinizer05there's nothing to streamline in the duties of council23:48
*** xes has quit IRC23:48
DocScrutinizer05there's a lot to fix in maemo infra that is broken now and is needed for proper votes23:50
DocScrutinizer05kolp: you where in here when we discussed the whole thing 2 days ago:
kolpYes, I'm aware of the issues23:52
kolpWhich is partly the reason for my musings23:53
kolpYes, and to be honest that list looks a little outdated23:54
DocScrutinizer05meh, i'm not going to justify wha YOU WANT a council. I just sit back and watch the whole shit die. i'm fed up23:55
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:55
DocScrutinizer05actually it seems more and more users hope for pixies taking care about maemo23:56
DocScrutinizer05I just wait and see how faces turn scared when they find out there is no such thing like pixies23:57
kolpWell, I'm not suggesting to "the whole shit die". That's why I said "in a controlled way". Maybe I should have used the term "transition" instead of "take-down" ;)23:58
DocScrutinizer05you'll stop laughing when maemo infra goes down23:58
kolps/to/to let/23:59
infobotkolp meant: Well, I'm not suggesting to let "the whole shit die". That's why I said "in a controlled way". Maybe I should have used the term "transition" instead of "take-down" ;)23:59
kolpNobody is laughing...23:59
DocScrutinizer05transition to WHAT? management by anarchy?23:59
DocScrutinizer05[2013-10-10 22:57:25] <kolp> Hehe23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!