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| DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL http://www.coolest-gadgets.com/20070521/keep-radiation-out-of-your-pants/ | 00:28 |
|---|---|---|
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| r00t|home | "the mans vital organ"... | 00:30 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ponders a Neo900 special edition with GSM wave converter foil placed inside the case, which filters hazardous components out of the RF radiation emitted by the phone and WLAN and BT | 00:32 | |
| kolp | For clarification re: USB host mode: USB host with boost means the N900 supplies power to the peripheral device, while USB host with charging means the N900 is being charged e.g. through a hub while at the same time acting as USB host. Is that correct? | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, this is 100% correct | 00:36 |
| kolp | Thanks, DocScrutinizer05 | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for using hostmode | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I gave my hair for making it happen | 00:37 |
| kolp | Oh, been using it for a while. I just don't have a usb hub so can't test that. | 00:37 |
| kolp | And now I saw http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1379685#post1379685 | 00:37 |
| kolp | Either I'm misunderstanding him, or he doesn't really have to unplug | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode-charging | 00:38 |
| infobot | somebody said hostmode-powered was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use a Y-cable | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those come with virtually every extrenal USB HDD drive | 00:39 |
| kolp | I had only one, which was broken and didn't even work with the HDD it came with... :) | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use the 2nd "power" plug to not plug it to your PC's 2nd USB port but to plug a USB charger to it, thus providing power to the N900 and whatever got attached to the Y-cable's other end | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you don't need any USB hub for that | 00:41 |
| kolp | Hm, right | 00:43 |
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| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: radiation out my pants? | 01:53 |
| jon_y | I thought the new in-thing was wireless charging? | 01:54 |
| jon_y | radiation in my house!? | 01:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, I don't know wich direction the radiation takes in *your* case ;-) | 01:54 |
| jon_y | there is a cell tower next to my house, so radiation everywhere :) | 01:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and I thought when the radiation is coming out of your pants, the sending tower must be another sort of tower than a cell tower ;-P | 02:51 |
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| jonwil | 'hmmm, interesting, http://mirror.thecust.net/harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan/nokia-binaries/41667a5bd857be02f487c2ce806fbf85/nokia-binaries/p/pulseaudio-nokia/ has debug symbols that might show more about what these proprietary things are doing (even if they are Harmattan not Fremantle. they are still somewhat interesting) | 04:35 |
| jonwil | interesting, some parts of these modules are compiled not with GCC but with the ARM C/C++ compiler | 04:39 |
| jonwil | cant seem to find a suitable tool to dump the dwarf info in a useful format though :P | 04:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang! | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | audiots is an ugly word, my brain refuses to read anything that's not containing the string "idiots" | 04:58 |
| robbiethe1st | Idiots? | 04:59 |
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| jonwil | if I could have any one thing it would be either source code for Fremantle pulseaudio-nokia OR a set of Fremantle binaries that have libcmtspeech as a shared library. | 05:01 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 *loves* .deb¡ particularly changes is a textfile in a gz in a gz in a pseudo-gz | 05:01 | |
| robbiethe1st | heh | 05:01 |
| robbiethe1st | But it's easy to modify, none the less | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hail to kde and konqueror which just opens .gz and .deb when clicking on them | 05:02 |
| robbiethe1st | KDE's nice | 05:03 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 just closed 5 windows, which popped up by following jonwil's URL until visible/readable changes.txt | 05:03 | |
| jonwil | Its a pitty that libcmtspeechdata (either the open one in MeeGo or the closed version in Harmattan SDK repo) has no changelog at all | 05:13 |
| mashina | cell network is down here | 05:13 |
| mashina | feels weird seeing nothing in the signal area | 05:14 |
| mashina | not even no sim | 05:14 |
| mashina | it feels... empty | 05:18 |
| jonwil | hmmm, libcmtspeech in meego is version 2.0.5, in Fremantle its 1.6.2.1, and in Harmattan its 2.1.1 | 05:35 |
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| jonwil | the more I look at pulseaudio-nokia, the more I am convinced that its going to be the hardest part of the Neo900 jigsaw puzzle to solve | 05:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please explain in neo900 thread, so Nikolaus gets to know. I have a hard time convincing him about tlv320aic34 | 06:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, our modem will have differnt interface anyway, and will not need some of the pa-nokia voodoo since it has built-in echo cancellation and noise suppression | 06:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spilling the beans: we plan to open preorder in 1..2 weeks. sth like 100EUR down payment to apply for one of the Neo900. 2000EUR for one of the prototypes. Donations to get your name etched on all PCB otherwise. Aiming at 20k | 06:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we might try to get 50% of the aim via direct preorder, other 50% via kickstarter (which has better PR but is a PITA otherwise). If we reach the aim during 2..4 weeks we will start prototype design. Unclear what we'll do when we miss the aim | 06:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway any dicount will apply only for those who joined the early preorder. later preorders will have regular price | 06:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I', a noob at those marketing details and economics, so that's just how I got it what is a possible business plan for initial phase right now. disclaimer: may change, and maybe I even got it wrong | 06:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway: stay tuned, and keep your purse at reach ;-) | 06:37 |
| DrCode | hi all | 06:39 |
| DrCode | I have install android in n900 | 06:39 |
| DrCode | nitraid | 06:39 |
| DrCode | fro meamo | 06:39 |
| DrCode | any one using it? | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: btw Option is PCM master, not slave like BB5. So any alsa soundcard device for option modem will be a very natural behaving soundcard, not some weird stuff like that ISI timing adjustment message shite | 06:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: condolences | 06:40 |
| DrCode | hi DocScrutinizer05 | 06:40 |
| DrCode | It load android ok but I have some issue about voice call , any idea? | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, no | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never touched *droid, and prolly never will | 06:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Android is a decent OS; better than the alternatives, but nowhere in the same class as Maemo | 06:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *if* I ever do, then on a genuine android device | 06:41 |
| robbiethe1st | Which -- I'm thus far convinced -- is the best mobile phone OS ever designed. | 06:42 |
| DrCode | ok | 06:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: ack | 06:42 |
| DrCode | meamo is the best os , but I have missing apps like waze | 06:42 |
| DrCode | that I am using in my car | 06:42 |
| robbiethe1st | N900 has maps, doesn't it? | 06:43 |
| robbiethe1st | also: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79860 | 06:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked that a zillion times now, so this time I don't care I again forgot what's waze. I seem to better not know, otherwise I would recall | 06:43 |
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| robbiethe1st | I had to google for it, too | 06:44 |
| robbiethe1st | but hey, it apparently already has a port for Maemo 5 | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 06:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it's worth using it, it has a maemo5 port | 06:44 |
| robbiethe1st | Yup | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it has no maemo5 port, rather forget about it | 06:45 |
| DrCode | I know there is qtwaze | 06:45 |
| robbiethe1st | Eh, not sure... Is there a port for the Arduino IDE? | 06:45 |
| DrCode | witch is not updated and dosn't work well | 06:45 |
| DrCode | can I run backupmenu with u-boot? | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 06:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | completely unentangled domains | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just kinda annoying that both check for kbd slider open/closed | 06:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd prefer one of both to check for a different indication to pop up | 06:47 |
| DrCode | but what will load before? u-boot or backupmenu? | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course uBoot load first since it's a bootloader | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | backupmenu is a linux userland app | 06:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | though a special one | 06:47 |
| DrCode | I see | 06:48 |
| DrCode | I see | 06:48 |
| DrCode | i will find it in u-boot? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you will find what? | 06:48 |
| DrCode | or after I boot it will load backupmenu? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 06:48 |
| DrCode | in u-boot list? | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no | 06:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you boot standard maemo, and when kbd open, first app to get started is BM | 06:49 |
| DrCode | ok | 06:49 |
| DrCode | thnku | 06:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 06:49 |
| jonwil | anyone know what omap mcbsp is? | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Multi Channel Bidir Serial port | 06:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or sth like that | 06:50 |
| jonwil | ok, but whats connected to it on the N900? | 06:51 |
| jonwil | audio chip? Cellular audio interface? | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask freemangordon, maybe others just call it MIPI HSI | 06:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: there are like 3 or 4 McBSP interfaces on OMAP2420 | 06:52 |
| jonwil | ok | 06:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3430* | 06:52 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: DSP, AUDIO, CMT :) | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ola fmg | 06:53 |
| freemangordon | hi | 06:53 |
| jonwil | ok, so /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2 would point to what exactly? | 06:53 |
| jonwil | Audio chip? | 06:53 |
| jonwil | CMT audio? | 06:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | McBSP == HSI? | 06:53 |
| jonwil | what? | 06:53 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no | 06:53 |
| freemangordon | it is used for... sideband audio | 06:54 |
| freemangordon | or whatever it was called | 06:54 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: ^^^ | 06:54 |
| jonwil | ok | 06:54 |
| jonwil | so its part of the audio chip? | 06:54 |
| jonwil | or the CMT? | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: mompls, need to check schem | 06:54 |
| freemangordon | BSP is a bus, he same way SSI is | 06:54 |
| jonwil | ok | 06:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MCBSP2: audio codec tvl320aic34 | 06:55 |
| freemangordon | just mind you it is 5 to 7 here and I just started my first coffee :) | 06:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wonderd if I should have my last coffe or rather a nap, since you know... it's 5:56 here | 06:56 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: check McBSP1 | 06:56 |
| freemangordon | iirc CMT uses it | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | McBSP4 : RAPU | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | McBSP1 : WLAN | 06:57 |
| freemangordon | hmm, no, this is muxed to SSI | 06:57 |
| freemangordon | McBSP4 that is | 06:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | McBSP3 : BT | 06:58 |
| freemangordon | ok | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RAPU == ISI | 06:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: >>BSP is a bus, he same way SSI is<< dang, tha last few days all your moaning and quoting sources made me think SSI == HSI | 07:00 |
| freemangordon | sure thing, the difference is in speed | 07:00 |
| freemangordon | SSI is up to 110 Mbit | 07:01 |
| freemangordon | not sure about HSI, but it is higher | 07:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/HSI | 07:02 |
| freemangordon | the same thing we have | 07:03 |
| freemangordon | SSI === OMAP3, HSI == OMAP4 and higher | 07:03 |
| freemangordon | "Supports HSI(OMAP4+) and SSI(OMAP3) " | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>HSI link is the recommended IPC for OMAP4 modem connectivity. It offers a high speed multi-channel interface to connect 3G and 4G (up to LTE Category 3) modems. The OMAP HSI driver supports both OMAP MIPI HSI (as defined in MIPI documentation mipi_HSI-PL_specification_v01-01-00a.pdf) and OMAP SSI devices through different device files, and a generic SW driver.<< | 07:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway: http://www.omappedia.com/wiki/Kernel_McBSP | 07:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "buffered", not "bidir" | 07:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: so you say BB5/RAPU is connected via (some of) McBSP4 balls on OMAP, but those balls are ModeN-muxed to SSI instead of McBSP? | 07:26 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 07:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not easy to spot for an EE like me, from schem | 07:26 |
| freemangordon | check the schematic on p.2 | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | makes sense since SSI~=HSI and HSI is THE interface for 3G/4G | 07:27 |
| freemangordon | SSI(7:0) | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 07:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since no datasheets for BB5 I thought McBSP == SSI | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been mistaken | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems McBSP is a glorified PCM/IIS | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's just funny since HSI pretty much matches the description of multichannel buffered serial protocol | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | on a functional level | 07:30 |
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| freemangordon | damn, upstream broke video playback :( | 07:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and since MIPI HSI is (C), I thought this is TI's proprietary name for it, similar to what you often see for I2C | 07:31 |
| freemangordon | framebuffer memory cannot be allocated | 07:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | prolly somebody else already seized it | 07:32 |
| freemangordon | I don;t think so, seems noone is testing :( | 07:32 |
| freemangordon | but me :D | 07:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe | 07:33 |
| freemangordon | they removed VRAM allocation in 3.8 and moved to dma API | 07:33 |
| freemangordon | which uses CMA | 07:33 |
| freemangordon | unfortunatley CMA is not good enough to find a contignious 2 MB block of memory, despite I reserved 64MB for it | 07:34 |
| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142&page=76 | 07:34 |
| jonwil | That last post explains whats up with pulseaudio-nokia and pulseaudio | 07:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (HSI) try to find that friggin mipi_HSI-PL_specification_v01-01-00a.pdf, it's more sekrit than the bootloader seckey | 07:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MIPI is a plague | 07:35 |
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| jonwil | I see what you mean about that pdf, plenty of people who say "read that PDF" but no links to it anywhere | 07:36 |
| freemangordon | I guess we'll just have to revert that, I won;t dive into kernel MM system in an attemt to fiz CMA | 07:37 |
| freemangordon | fix even | 07:38 |
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| jonwil | anyhow, I can say that we will have to identify if pulseaudio-nokia relies on the specifics and characteristics of any parts of the audio system (e.g. does xprot rely on the specifics of the N900 speakers, does pulseaudio-nokia cmt voice bits rely on the specifics of the N900 cellular modem other than the libcmtspeech interface, etc) | 07:40 |
| jonwil | But I do know for a fact that there is a direct tie between pulseaudio-nokia and the tvl320aic34 | 07:41 |
| jonwil | and a direct tie between the statically linked libcmtspeech and the cellular modem | 07:41 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: that could be just "neable" sysfs entry | 07:41 |
| jonwil | Beyond that we need to do some identifying | 07:41 |
| freemangordon | *enable | 07:41 |
| jonwil | and no its more than that | 07:41 |
| freemangordon | damn | 07:41 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: what entry it uses? | 07:42 |
| jonwil | there are references to /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_ch0gain, /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_ch1gain, /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable and /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_taps | 07:42 |
| jonwil | as well as to /sys/power/vdd2_lock | 07:43 |
| freemangordon | the last one is easy | 07:43 |
| jonwil | yeah I figured | 07:43 |
| freemangordon | it just makes sure there is enough bandwidth in interconnect | 07:43 |
| jonwil | All the evidence that I have shows that using the same tvl320aic34 chip as the N900 will make it much easier to keep pulseaudio-nokia working correctly | 07:44 |
| jonwil | There may be other bits we want to reuse too, I dont know enough about the other audio hardware of the N900 to say for sure | 07:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we might want to copycat the headset detection | 07:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | everything around N4007 N4008 | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and ECI_AD | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I pointed pali to a ECI (multibutton wired headset) driver for N900 android just a few days ago | 07:50 |
| jonwil | DocScrutinizer05: Does what I wrote help explain to Nikolaus why we need to copy bits of the N900 audio subsystem in Neo900? | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: see my answer :-) | 07:50 |
| jonwil | :) | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: jonwil: we need to come up with a stopgap solution for dialer&audio for Neo900 | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so early adopters can somehow *use* the phone even when PA adaption and RE not yet finished and tested | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I would be willing to completely tear down PA to enable phone operation | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | making phone standby and e.g. MP3 playback mutually exclusive | 07:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't care if this bandaid doesn't support BT headsets, even wired headsets (though those should be easy, once handset audio works for cmt) | 07:55 |
| jonwil | ok, so I wonder if pulseaudio-nokia depends on specifics of speaker amp, speakers, microphone, microphone interface, headphone amp, FMTX, FMRX or Bluetooth audio | 07:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | porting a dead simple dialer form e.g. SHR should suffice | 07:56 |
| jonwil | yeah for all that we could use whatever GTA04 is using | 07:57 |
| jonwil | i.e. GTA04 cellular modem audio | 07:57 |
| jonwil | which is already supporting the Option stuff | 07:57 |
| jonwil | and fsogsmd from GTA04 for cellular modem functionality | 07:57 |
| jonwil | and whatever GTA04 has for calls and SMS | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 07:57 |
| jonwil | that would work for stopgap | 07:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 07:57 |
| jonwil | ok so we need to ID if pulseaudio-nokia references specifics of any of the other audio related components other than the tvl320aic34 | 07:59 |
| jonwil | e.g. if it does audio processing based on the exact characteristics of the microphone or speakers | 07:59 |
| jonwil | or speaker amp | 07:59 |
| jonwil | or whatever | 07:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for your question above: speaker amp 0, speakers well dont worry, mic 0, mic IF 0, HP amp 0, FMTX FMRX needs further investigation since will differ from N900, BT same | 07:59 |
| jonwil | No reason not to use the same N900 speakers (they will fit best in the case if nothing else) | 08:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we will use same speakers | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when we use better speakers, they simply will be better | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no negative impact on PA crap | 08:01 |
| kerio | er... | 08:02 |
| kerio | doesn't PA do some sort of trickery to not blow up the speakers at high volume? | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | worst case XPROT doesn't exploit full capabilities of better speakers | 08:02 |
| kerio | you won't need that with better speakers | 08:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 08:02 |
| kerio | no i mean | 08:02 |
| kerio | that's bad | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | worst case XPROT doesn't exploit full capabilities of better speakers | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but we won't adapt XPROT to work better for better speakers | 08:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we simply nuke it | 08:04 |
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| kerio | anyway | 08:04 |
| kerio | how do you get better speakers that fit in the n900? | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XPROT is a silly dynamic compressor/limiter and a highpass filter | 08:04 |
| kerio | if they existed, someone would've already tried it | 08:04 |
| kerio | *them | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* | 08:05 |
| kerio | *whatever | 08:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nikolaus tells the knowles speakers are same formfactor and footprint, just 36Ohm instead of the 7Ohm of the speakers in N900 | 08:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't worry | 08:06 |
| jonwil | ok, in any case we do have reverse engineering to do on pulseaudio-nokia for cmtspeech if nothing else | 08:06 |
| jonwil | :) | 08:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I thought there is some FOSS cmtspeech which got used in SHR? | 08:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least for basing an own driver on it, which i helped to design a bit | 08:09 |
| jonwil | there is foss cmtspeech in meego repo | 08:09 |
| jonwil | but the problem we have is that libcmtspeech is statically linked into pulseaudio-nokia-voice remember | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmtaspeech is a weird silly thing that feeds chunks of audio to cmt in sync with the timing correction messages that the cmt sends to APE | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, I remember | 08:10 |
| jonwil | and also the foss cmtspeech is quite a few versions ahead of the one Fremantle has | 08:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it seems to work for BB5 | 08:11 |
| jonwil | it does but the interface to the rest of the pulseaudio stuff has likely changed | 08:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which interface, when in fremantle it's linked | 08:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you mean the function calls available? | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think they changed | 08:13 |
| jonwil | I mean the interface we need to know so we can rip parts out of pulseaudio-nokia-voice and replace with something new | 08:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: the Options have built-in echo cancellation and noise suppression. And a way cleaner protocol than the BB5. I suggest to replace pulseaudio-nokia-voice by a plain bridge interface to a alsa soundcard that represents the Option PCM audio | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ISI has no way to do proper realtime PCM or other audio, thus it does time adjust messages and cmtspeech sends 5ms chunks (burst) on a pace it adjusts according to those time adjust msgs | 08:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Options are PCM master, thus a pretty standard soundcard basically | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you have a dedicated PCM interface that pulls frame by frame realtime from a IIS interface on the OMAP | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pulseaudio-nokia-voice doesn't need to do much, basically it doesn't need to do *anything* for Option | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what I think right now | 08:24 |
| jonwil | pulseaudio-nokia-voice does a lot more than it looks at first glance | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe it should convert whatever input it gets to a mono signal @ 8kHz | 08:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so we need to find out what it does | 08:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pulseaudio-nokia-voice that is | 08:26 |
| jonwil | yes we do | 08:26 |
| jonwil | its got xprot, agc, drc, temprature read from BME, aec and more | 08:27 |
| jonwil | as well as cmtspeech | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | xprot? | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, for inbound audio | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | agc, aec, drc(?) are already in Option | 08:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what for it needs temperature | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah xprot | 08:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cmtspeech is a slave<->master converter basically | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which we don't need for Option either | 08:30 |
| jonwil | also, it does stuff with voip | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | UGH | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FFS | 08:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wel NO! | 08:31 |
| jonwil | the source filenames I can see in the .so file include voice-voip-source.c, voice-voip-sink.c, voice-util.c, voice-temperature.c, voice-sidetone.c, voice-raw-source.c, voice-raw-sink.c voice-optimized.c, voice-mainloop-handler.c, voice-hw-source-output.c, voice-hw-sink-input.c, voice-event-forwarder.c, voice-cs-call-sink-input.c, voice-cmtspeech.c, voice-aep-sink-input.c, timestamp.c,... | 08:31 |
| jonwil | ...module-nokia-voice.c and eq_fir.c | 08:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | our Option *IS* identical to a VoIP connection, basically | 08:31 |
| jonwil | does it do sidetone? | 08:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, sidetone is overrated | 08:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sidetone is a silly -18dB feedback from mic to earpiece, to comfort the user by hearing his own voice silently in hte earpiece | 08:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you probably wouldn't even notice when sidetone missing | 08:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe pulseaudio-nokia-voice also creates comfort noise that's for givibg user a audio feedback during silence periods, so user doesn't think the call stalled | 08:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when far end doesn't talk at all, no data gets transferred to save bandwidth and traffic. receiver side fills in confort noise (mute pink noise or whatever) during those periods | 08:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I haven't checked Option datasheets yet, but I guess Option doing *all* this on-board | 08:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wishes konttori was around, to ask him about that stuff regarding BB5 | 08:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: think of BB5 like a raw data transceiver which happens to have a GSM codec in datapath. everything else audio processing is done on APE, probably because N900 product specs specified that the audio is APE centric | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Option otoh is a self-conprised complete phone | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that just has PCM for mic and speaker | 08:41 |
| jonwil | yeah I suspect option modem was designed in part for use in usb cellular data sticks and things | 08:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we really don't need much of whatever pulseaudio-nokia-voice might do | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but for maemo an option module PCM and a SIP PCM is absolutely identical | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe this gives you some ideas ;-) | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we could pretend Option speaks RTP | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and wrap it into a VoIP account | 08:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pulseaudio-nokia-voice shouldn't notice any difference | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I actually think Option talks 711a | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or sth *very* similar | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: our problem is ped and the audio routing and switching of the same | 08:49 |
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| jonwil | `yeah we need to deal with closed alsa-policy-enforcement | 09:03 |
| jonwil | and also closed policy-settings-rx51 | 09:03 |
| jonwil | well policy-settings-rx51 has been partially decompiled | 09:03 |
| jonwil | but not completly | 09:03 |
| jonwil | and I dont know if the decompile we have is or isn't a 100% decompile | 09:03 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: I think we should trust Pali it is | 09:04 |
| freemangordon | and it is in CSSU since ages | 09:04 |
| jonwil | ok, but its not completly decompiled | 09:04 |
| jonwil | the dresc file | 09:04 |
| freemangordon | ok | 09:04 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 starts to wonder if we could kick ped and PA and all that crap completely, and replace it by sth we designed... but... will be rather a long term project | 09:07 | |
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| jonwil | I think we can figure out partially what module-nokia-voice is doing by comparing earliest module-meego-voice to binary of module-nokia-voice and matching up functions | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | question is if we need to do it at all | 09:08 |
| jonwil | I think we do | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | why? | 09:08 |
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| jonwil | Its doing things not just for cellular audio but for other things | 09:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so just keep it? | 09:09 |
| jonwil | we could try and run the Neo900 without that module and see what happens | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we could try to create a SIP call via alsacard cmt rather than via telepathy and RTP | 09:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever RTP interface SIP is using/creating that pulseaudio-nokia-voice is connecting to and piping audio data to it and from, we could just hijack it and redirect it to cmt PCM | 09:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't you think we could? | 09:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aiui this would need zilch patching or RE on pulseaudio-nokia-voice | 09:14 |
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| jonwil | we have no clue what pulseaudio-nokia-voice will do if it cant find /dev/cmt_speech or if it cant properly talk to it | 09:59 |
| freemangordon_ | we ave, this is what was happening before we had SSI driver running :) | 10:00 |
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| jonwil | ok, what happens? | 10:02 |
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| freemangordon_ | it just spits some errors in syslog | 10:03 |
| freemangordon_ | you can test it easily | 10:03 |
| jonwil | ok | 10:03 |
| freemangordon_ | just "stop pulseaudio;rmmod cmt_speech;start pulseaudio" | 10:03 |
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| Apic | A wonderful good Pungenday Morning (UGT) to You all! | 10:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1372710#post1372710 FPTF mantra | 10:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw how would the situation on Neo900 differ form a N900 with broken cmt? | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik you can still use such phone to do SIP calls | 10:54 |
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| troulouliou_dev | DocScrutinizer05, can i disable the rotating deamon in cssu ; it bugs too much for me | 11:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools | 11:32 |
| infobot | from memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 11:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | some gconf keys | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gui-may-rotate=no or sth like that | 11:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | beware! touching the rotation-lock systray/menu button will revert that, so you need to set those keys again | 11:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus I made me a 2liner bash script | 11:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat `which no-portrait-gconfkey` | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | #!/bin/sh | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gconftool-2 -s /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/ui_can_rotate -t bool false | 11:36 |
| DrCode | hi all | 11:36 |
| DrCode | I want to reflesh n900 | 11:36 |
| DrCode | I have u-boot installed | 11:36 |
| DrCode | When I poweron and press u it go directly to u-boot, any idea please? | 11:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | your battery isn't charged | 11:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | when battery charged, and holding 'u' then plugging to charger, it must stay on NOKIA screen with usb symbol upper right. If it doesn't, your battery is not fully charged, or your charger or USB is broken | 11:39 |
| DrCode | I see | 11:39 |
| DrCode | ok, thankyou | 11:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 11:40 |
| DrCode | I am charging it now | 11:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or the 'u' key ;-P | 11:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or you're the one who just developed a new NOLO bootloader | 11:42 |
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| DrCode | if I connect usb cable and make boot with u key , it can work ? | 11:44 |
| DrCode | or I will need to full charge battery first | 11:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first charge your battery | 11:45 |
| DrCode | ok | 11:45 |
| DrCode | thankyou | 11:45 |
| DrCode | I have played with niroaid | 11:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless your charging is broken, in which case you got a problem | 11:45 |
| DrCode | ok | 11:46 |
| DrCode | Thank You | 11:46 |
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| troulouliou_dev | DocScrutinizer05, ok thanks | 12:03 |
| troulouliou_dev | ihave a bug with freemantle that i aleady had inthe past but it seems more oftensince i switched to cssu; randomlyafter somehours of usingthe phone, i can not "click" any buttn/wifdget onthe desktop | 12:05 |
| troulouliou_dev | i need to launch the start menu and launch application or reboot th ephone | 12:05 |
| troulouliou_dev | (sorry backspace broken on netbook) | 12:05 |
| troulouliou_dev | i have a bug with freemantle that i aleady had in the past but it seems more often since i switched to cssu; randomly after some hours of using the phone, i can not "click" any button/widget on the desktop | 12:06 |
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| DrCode | When My charger is connected, I can't boot n900? | 12:35 |
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| chem|st | thedead1440: "such BS"(talk report) ... you have to live with dumb people and doc replied properly, it's not like spamming the thread with posts | 12:37 |
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| chem|st | thedead1440: want moderation rights in Maemo5? | 12:40 |
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| joga | DrCode, if you ran out of battery it might not boot through until it has been charged enough, I usually let it charge for a few minutes, disconnect charger, turn it on until I see the code entry keypad and then plug it back | 12:57 |
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| chem|st | kolp: an admin team is asigned, community representatives need to be voted on - councils BoDs etc - and the active userbase is >100 so yes {(Currently Active Talk Users: 676 (69 members and 607 guests)} | 14:05 |
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| jonwil | hmmm, what to reverse engineer next... | 14:18 |
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| SAiF | I wonder whether there be any copyright issues? | 14:19 |
| jonwil | copyright issues with what? | 14:20 |
| Apic | jonwil: You could build a GPS-Driver for NITDroid. *duck&run* | 14:20 |
| jonwil | I refuse to touch the abomination that is NITDroid | 14:20 |
| jonwil | and I have already given up messing with the GPS for now, its too complex :P | 14:20 |
| Apic | ;-0 | 14:21 |
| SAiF | using nokia casing | 14:22 |
| SAiF | I am totally misunderstanding i think | 14:22 |
| jonwil | I think Nokia doesn't care so much unless you are producing devices that claim to be Nokia devices but which arent | 14:23 |
| jonwil | i.e. trademark violation | 14:23 |
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| kolp | jonwil: How about that plugin that shows the wifi icon in the status bar (connui-*?)? | 14:24 |
| kolp | It'd be great to have a wifi strength indicator there, like in the menu if you tap the sttausbar | 14:25 |
| jonwil | Already tried that one before, couldn't get anywhere with some of the stuff in libconnui that it was using | 14:25 |
| kolp | chem|st: Yes, I know about the admin team, council, BoD. I was just wondering if the council was still needed. | 14:26 |
| kolp | jonwil: Hm, too bad | 14:26 |
| kolp | needed and/or necessary | 14:26 |
| kolp | jonwil: What about that lib that's responsible for corrupting the events database? (rtcom-*) | 14:30 |
| jonwil | rtcom-eventlogger is already foss | 14:30 |
| jonwil | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/r/rtcom-eventlogger/ | 14:31 |
| kolp | Oh | 14:31 |
| kolp | Has anyone attempted to fix that bug? | 14:33 |
| jonwil | no idea | 14:35 |
| chem|st | kolp: true | 14:36 |
| kolp | Given that there is (1) no voting infrastructure, (2) (so far) no one running for council, it might be worthwile to consider liquidating the council in a controlled way before it collapses | 14:40 |
| kolp | (3) questionable need (IMHO) | 14:41 |
| kolp | jonwil: rtcom-accounts-ui? :) | 14:43 |
| kolp | Hm, probaly it's already possible to clone that | 14:43 |
| kolp | Based on telepathy | 14:43 |
| jonwil | nope, might take another look at connui-statusbar-internet (widget for data status) | 14:45 |
| jonwil | What I wouldn't give for the chance to pick the brain of some Nokia pulseaudio people and find out just what things like mudrc, stw and some of these other strange terms actually mean | 14:47 |
| jonwil | but thats never going to happen so maybe I should give up on PulseAudio for good | 14:48 |
| * jonwil looks at connui-statusbar-internet | 14:51 | |
| * jonwil sees all the undocumented libconnui calls | 14:52 | |
| * jonwil remembers why he gave up on trying to figure that mess out | 14:52 | |
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| jonwil | All of the interesting/useful bits of the N900 system are too hard to reverse engineer :( | 15:04 |
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| Macer | heh | 15:11 |
| Macer | like conversations? | 15:11 |
| Macer | remember when nokia was trumpeting the "open community" when that was en vogue? | 15:12 |
| MohammadAG | I actually miss conversations | 15:16 |
| MohammadAG | I don't miss its slowness though | 15:17 |
| zammy | ...n900 with arch? possible? | 15:18 |
| zammy | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCk1iu2Aa60 uhm... | 15:18 |
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| freemangordon | MohammadAG: slowness? compared to what, apple phone? | 16:14 |
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| MohammadAG | freemangordon, just about anything really | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | using browserd instead of a native list was a sloppy mess | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | reminds me of Samsung | 18:06 |
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| Defiant | Any recommendation for a n900 charger? | 19:19 |
| kerio | the nokia one | 19:19 |
| kerio | and that's about it | 19:19 |
| mashina | i use a nexus 4 one fine | 19:19 |
| Defiant | k | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | AC10 (what cerio said) | 19:20 |
| freemangordon | *kerio | 19:20 |
| Defiant | aah thats what its called | 19:20 |
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| mashina | isn't the n800 one ac4? | 19:27 |
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| Defiant | n800 or n900? ac4 doesn't sem to have micro usb | 19:28 |
| DrCode | I don't replace my n900 | 19:29 |
| DrCode | I even bout two now | 19:29 |
| DrCode | two new bare phone | 19:29 |
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| Ken-Young | Please forgive this off-topic message, but folks lucky enough to live in Europe will be able to see three *simultaneous* total solar eclipses on Jupiter tomorrow night from 4:32 to 5:37 UT. You'll need at least a 5 cm diameter telescope to see it. | 23:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ((<kolp> (3) questionable need (IMHO))) you will reconsider when infra goes down since no entity is taking care of administrative issues. but then it's too late | 23:35 |
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| kolp | DocScrutinizer05: Nah, you misunderstood :) | 23:36 |
| kolp | I'm not saying all this should be abandoned. I was just wondering if a voted-in council is necessary | 23:37 |
| kolp | Of course someone has to look after the infra | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what else if not a voted council? a council of dictators self-appointed for lifetime? | 23:37 |
| kolp | But a appointed-by-the-BoD (e.g.) might do, too | 23:38 |
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| kolp | s/might/admin team might/ | 23:38 |
| infobot | kolp meant: But a appointed-by-the-BoD (e.g.) admin team might do, too | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that is what you basically will get when council vanishes and HiFo takes over (not that HiFo in itself was any dictatorship, but there's no provision of re-elections in HiFo when council vanishes) | 23:39 |
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| kolp | Yes, and I was wondering if it made sense to take down the council in a controlled way before it falls apart by itself by non-vote | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's incredibly insane and silly and rogue when an institution like HiFo appoints their own controlling entity | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kolp: please read the bylaws and rules. Council CANNOT self-abolish | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and technically council >> HiFo | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW HiFo is council's (and thus community's) treasurer | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | council is community's (YOUR!) only channel into participating in decisions about maemo | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's like suggesting parliament self-abolishes and ministry of finance appoint a new parliament | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | HiFo not even supposed to have competences in deciding e.g. which packages need to get removed from extras, or which sysops get appointed for techstaf | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now they shall appoint a new council that does this job for them? why? because of community too lazy to vote? | 23:47 |
| kolp | Maybe I'm not quite up2date with what the council does or is supposed to do. But given that there is seemingly little interest in the upcoming votes so I was just wondering if tze council is something that could be streamlined a bit. Perfectly fine with me if it stays :) | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's nothing to streamline in the duties of council | 23:48 |
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| kolp | Ok | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's a lot to fix in maemo infra that is broken now and is needed for proper votes | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kolp: you where in here when we discussed the whole thing 2 days ago: https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-10-08.log.html#t2013-10-08T16:02:58 | 23:52 |
| kolp | Yes, I'm aware of the issues | 23:52 |
| kolp | Which is partly the reason for my musings | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>DocScrutinizer05kolp: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Council_work<< | 23:53 |
| kolp | Yes, and to be honest that list looks a little outdated | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, i'm not going to justify wha YOU WANT a council. I just sit back and watch the whole shit die. i'm fed up | 23:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | actually it seems more and more users hope for pixies taking care about maemo | 23:56 |
| kolp | pixies? | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just wait and see how faces turn scared when they find out there is no such thing like pixies | 23:57 |
| kolp | Hehe | 23:57 |
| kolp | Well, I'm not suggesting to "the whole shit die". That's why I said "in a controlled way". Maybe I should have used the term "transition" instead of "take-down" ;) | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you'll stop laughing when maemo infra goes down | 23:58 |
| kolp | s/to/to let/ | 23:59 |
| infobot | kolp meant: Well, I'm not suggesting to let "the whole shit die". That's why I said "in a controlled way". Maybe I should have used the term "transition" instead of "take-down" ;) | 23:59 |
| kolp | Nobody is laughing... | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | transition to WHAT? management by anarchy? | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-10-10 22:57:25] <kolp> Hehe | 23:59 |
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