IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2013-10-11

kolpAy, that was about the pixies...00:00
kolpHey, I was just trying to suggest *something* instead of watching it die. If it's a b*llshit idea, fine with me00:01
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DocScrutinizer05please see the council rules which got installed by COMMUNITY REFERNDUM00:01
DocScrutinizer05it's really more terse than your parking rules00:02
DocScrutinizer05and it worked since 4 years00:02
DocScrutinizer05almost 500:02
DocScrutinizer05and one rule is that those rules can get changed by referendum only00:03
DocScrutinizer05which is a GOOD thing00:03
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DocScrutinizer05but for any referendum we also need a working voting infra, and right ATM we lack that, so we can't determine electroate and thus can't send out tokens and thus no elections will happen00:05
DocScrutinizer05electorate defined as: all maemo community members with a garage(!) account older than 3 months, and a (correctly calculated) karma >=1000:07
DocScrutinizer05we can determine garage accounts and their age. We CANNOT determine proper karma, due to tmo karma broken00:07
DocScrutinizer05council chair and tmo maintainer is shrugging it away00:08
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DocScrutinizer05we have one more week to fix that00:11
DocScrutinizer05dunno if chem|st plans to calculate karma for 60k tmo users by hand00:12
kolpWhen/how did karma calculation break?00:12
DocScrutinizer05with migration#100:14
DocScrutinizer0510 months ago00:15
kolpI'd offer to look into it... But like I said before, I'm not a 'trusted community member'...00:19
DocScrutinizer05prerequisites for mainainer status in techstaff are: trusted by ME00:20
kolpOh dear...00:20
DocScrutinizer05I'd like to keep this discussion public for a little longer, so other interested parties might have easy access to the info ... eventually you'll get invited into admin IRC channel where we manage accounts on the servers etc00:22
DocScrutinizer05~seen woody1461900:23
infobotwoody14619 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 28d 3h 29m 48s ago, saying: 'odd... Time to reboot. :)'.00:23
DocScrutinizer05he looked into karma and how it works, some 4..5 months ago00:23
DocScrutinizer05basically aiui some php script on (aka midgard CMS) polls all karma from tmo and attaches it to user records in midgard or garage00:25
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DocScrutinizer05this script *should* get invoked by cron00:25
DocScrutinizer05I neither know the script nor its name00:25
DocScrutinizer05ask woody, warfare, xes, merlin1991, **chem|st**, GeneralAntilles(?), or even me and fatphil, about details00:29
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DocScrutinizer05woody fixed the wiki karma00:39
DocScrutinizer05he "promised" to fix tmo karma before we will need it on next elections00:39
DocScrutinizer05alas he's abroad now afaik, and not available. And he was too busy to fix tmo karma during last 5 months00:40
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FatPhilso is it just a case of sucking a whole lot of data from one server, and squirting it into another server?00:41
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DocScrutinizer05basically yes, and then pipe it thru a number of filters and into some midgard php function calls on destination server00:42
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DocScrutinizer05on tmo server there must be some (protected by htaccess?) webpage that provides all that info in one chunk, aiui00:43
DocScrutinizer05on www server it will get piped thru midgard into the db (which is a mysql living on its own VM)00:44
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DocScrutinizer05all disclaimer "AFAIK"00:45
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DocScrutinizer05(ask...) freemangordon might also be able to help, he has some insight into the infra by now00:47
DocScrutinizer05actually it's probably a tad more complicated procedure, but maybe more simple process: since tmo accounts need to get "linked" to garage accounts since the nicks may differ, I guess the (php?) script on www goes across all garage users, checks if a tmo account is linked, and simply fetches karma for that particular user and writes it to the user record in midgard (or garage)00:50
DocScrutinizer05for this to work, no overly complex and special webpage on tmo is needed00:51
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kolpWell, all that should be in place, mor or less, since it used to work before, didn't it?00:51
kolpIf it broke whil moving it might be as simple as a permissins prob or some wrong IP somewhere00:52
DocScrutinizer05it's just it broke during migration#1, for whatever reason (changed IPs, somebody deactivated cronjob, whatever)00:52
DocScrutinizer05tmo vBulletin seen a frsh install from scratch during its bery own migration00:53
DocScrutinizer05so maybe some special page on tmo is missing as well00:53
DocScrutinizer05chem|st *should* be able to help. Or even Reggie00:54
DocScrutinizer05sorry I'm out of info and ideas regarding that topic now00:55
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DocScrutinizer05I shared all that came to mind00:56
DocScrutinizer05and I'll not follow and control and push on this issue any more00:56
DocScrutinizer05just available for questions, if any arise. Rest up to whom it may concern. I'm sick from it00:57
DocScrutinizer05I already declared that this time I will bail out from organization of election00:57
DocScrutinizer05I whooped the last 2 elections00:58
DocScrutinizer05that's enough for one lifetime00:58
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LLckfanI am looking to speed up my computer and get all the crude off of it. What channel do I need for that06:21
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: you missed the idea to speed it up by deleting stuff. However futile06:23
Hurriantoo tired to optimize my system nowadays, threw everything on a 128GB SSD and it all 'just works' now.06:24
DocScrutinizer05optimize my system... lemme think! maybe get rid of friggin polypaudio?06:25
DocScrutinizer05any damn tracker, however it's called (akonadi prolly, nowadays)06:25
DocScrutinizer05but honestly with an i5 and a 250GB SSD and a 2TB HD I don't feel like I need much "optimization" either06:27
DocScrutinizer05 ;-P06:30
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Hurrianfwiw even a 32GB SSD to keep / on is way, way more than enough, just keep /home on a rust drive06:31
DocScrutinizer05saturn:/ # df -h ~jr06:32
DocScrutinizer05Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on06:32
DocScrutinizer05/dev/sdc3       867G  193G  673G  23% /home06:32
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DocScrutinizer05saturn:/ # df -h /06:33
DocScrutinizer05Filesystem      Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on06:33
DocScrutinizer05/dev/sda2        79G   17G   59G  23% /06:33
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DocScrutinizer05saturn:/ # time du -xsh /06:36
DocScrutinizer0516G /         real    0m1.305s           user    0m0.132s       sys     0m0.633s06:36
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DocScrutinizer05the latter one is quite impressive, eh? ;-)06:37
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DocScrutinizer05btw I don't think you can find any good fast 32GB SSD nowadays06:40
DocScrutinizer05prolly starts at 16006:40
DocScrutinizer05ooh, I missed read06:41
DocScrutinizer05saturn:/ # time dd of=/dev/null if=/ssd-aux/x bs=50M count=10006:42
DocScrutinizer05100+0 records in06:42
DocScrutinizer05100+0 records out06:42
DocScrutinizer055242880000 bytes (5.2 GB) copied, 12.6627 s, 414 MB/s06:42
DocScrutinizer05funny how write is faster than read06:44
DocScrutinizer05might have one GB of write buffer06:45
DocScrutinizer05how much NAND would you want on Neo900?06:50
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HurrianDocScrutinizer05: ideally? 1x32/64GB PCIe SSD06:59
Hurrianrealistically? probably 32GB of SATA MicroSSD07:01
Hurrianif this could be done by interleaving 2x16GB chips, better.07:01
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HurrianDocScrutinizer05: what display connector is Neo900 planning to use, by the way?07:04
Hurriansame as on N900 or is the design free to use something new?07:05
jonwilSince the intent is to use the same display then one would be using the same display connector I would have thought07:07
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, I asked for NAND, not for eMMC07:12
jonwilhow much does the N900 have?07:13
DocScrutinizer05err 256MB, no?07:13
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: ah, nand, as in what comes with a OneNAND?07:13
Hurrianwell, guess we could get the cheapest stuff you can get your hands on07:13
Hurrianand dump fremantle into the emmc/sd/usb otg/etc07:14
HurrianRAM would be the big elephant in the room - put savings from lower NAND storage to buy a OneNAND unit with more memory07:15
DocScrutinizer05we can't get OneNAND with >512MB RAM07:16
jonwilSo 512MB is the most the Neo900 can possibly have?07:16
DocScrutinizer05so I guess we'll use a 1GB of RAM-only PoP chip, and place a discrete NAND chip next to SoC07:16
jonwiloh ok07:16
jonwilsounds good07:16
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: does the planned SoC support DDR3/DDR3L memory?07:17
DocScrutinizer05thus I asked "how much NAND would you consider OK?"07:17
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DocScrutinizer05well, I dunno if it *works* with DDr3, but it *supports* LPDDR1 only07:18
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: 32MB sounds healthy for NAND07:19
DocScrutinizer05meh, nope07:19
Hurriankernel/bootloader + tiny command line system?07:19
DocScrutinizer05that's a regression from N90007:19
Hurrian512MB (N9/50 size)?07:20
DocScrutinizer05sounds better07:21
x29atoo bad that adding more RAM is so hard :/ 2GB like the blackberry q10 would be awesome07:21
DocScrutinizer05omap37xx has an addr space for RAM of only 1GB07:22
DocScrutinizer05by no means we can get any higher than that07:22
DocScrutinizer05unless we go for omap507:23
DocScrutinizer05which we prolly won't do07:23
jonwiland going for omap5 would defeat the purpose of the Neo90007:23
jonwilthe purpose is to be backwards compatible with the N900 as much as possible07:23
DocScrutinizer05otherwise I wouldn't even stabd up in the morning to work on this07:24
DocScrutinizer05stand up*07:24
DocScrutinizer05since when we lose fremantle compatibility, we are competing with every other crappy android/whatever device out there07:25
DocScrutinizer05and *I* for one would refuse to spend _any_ money on such a device, when it doesn't come with a promise of a proper fremantle07:26
DocScrutinizer05porting debian could've done on shamgung galaxy9 since years07:27
DocScrutinizer05fremantle binary compatibility is the single unique selling point of this platform07:28
jonwilI wont consider Neo900 "done" until the stock Fremantle dialer app and messaging app function 100% on Neo900.07:28
DocScrutinizer05as well as any other app fresh from original extras repo07:29
DocScrutinizer05aka "HAM working as well"07:29
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jonwilok, so regarding Neo900 audio, do we know if we can even get the TLV320AIC34 (same audio chip as N900) for use in Neo900?07:34
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DocScrutinizer05Nikolaus is still pretty reluctant, but I'll convince him since we need that mixer/codec. Or did I get your question wrong?07:44
jonwilwhat I meant is, is there a supplier that we could buy it from07:45
jonwilI know for example that we wont be able to get the WL12xx wifi chip because we are too small07:45
DocScrutinizer05sure, check digikey: ~12EUR07:45
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jonwilok, thats good to know07:46
jonwilSeems like the hardest chips to get hold of tend to be wireless chips (cellular, bluetooth, WiFi etc)07:46
DocScrutinizer05and 1GB PoP07:46
DocScrutinizer05in the end we might not be able to source anything better than 512/51207:48
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DocScrutinizer05compatibility of 156p PoP 1GB RAM not yet checked07:48
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DocScrutinizer05unless we find the magic supplier of N9 spare parts ;-)07:49
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# du -hs /opt08:10
DocScrutinizer05575M    /opt08:10
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: Nikolaus lists WL1271-TiWi as option08:28
DocScrutinizer05( "LS Research" ?)08:28
DocScrutinizer05WL1271-typeTN would look beeter though ( "Murata" )08:29
DocScrutinizer05better even08:29
DocScrutinizer05 BT4.0BLR08:29
DocScrutinizer05BLE, dang08:30
DocScrutinizer05TiWi has just BT2.1EDR08:30
DocScrutinizer05well, but it says "software upgrade to BLE"08:33
DocScrutinizer05UGH typeTN is HUUUGE08:37
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, actually Nikolaus says "TiWi5 like in pandaboard" - don't see how that relates to twl1271-TiWi08:39
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DocScrutinizer05we could use W2CBW0015 instead of W2CBW003, comes with b/g/n and BT3.0, significantly smaller than 003 (9.5*9.5*1.3  instead 12*12*1.5), based on 878708:41
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders: 802.11bgn+BT3.0 = 9.5*9.5*1.3mm; LTE modem: 30*37*2.1mm08:54
DocScrutinizer05AAAH TiWi5:
DocScrutinizer05k, 13*18*1.909:00
* DocScrutinizer05 ifdly wonders how the 2.4GHz WiFi antenna will perform on 5GHz09:10
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jonwilseems like getting a better WiFi chip than the GTA04 isn't out of the question then09:38
jonwilbetter WiFi and bluetooth09:39
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DocScrutinizer05real hard sourcing is modem module09:48
DocScrutinizer05the Option with 2.1mm is already most flat module you can find09:48
DocScrutinizer05and it's still 0.6mm too high09:49
jonwilEven finding Option modem would have been nearly impossible if it wasn't for that one shop09:49
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Timmyhow can I access stored SMSes in SIM card ?10:12
Palion n900? no normal way10:14
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Timmyyes, on n900. then what is the difficult method?10:14
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PaliRE isi/phonet library10:15
PaliI do not know about any way to access it now10:16
Timmywell, I'm going to find my Nokia 331010:17
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jonwilI dont know if the cellmo even supports accessing SMS on the SIM10:26
jonwilOh wait it does10:26
jonwilor appears to10:26 exists10:26
jonwilLet me grep the codebase and see if anyone actually uses it10:27
jonwilgrep the filesystem I mean10:27
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Palijonwil: maybe creating program for access sim sms could be usefull!10:27
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jonwilok so yes it looks like the cellular services daemon does support reading SIM SMS10:41
jonwilbut nothing else on the system uses that functionalty10:41
jonwilAnd I dont know how to decode the SMSs as returned by the relavent dbus call10:41
DocScrutinizer05why would any10:41
FatPhilBinary noise?10:41
DocScrutinizer05jonwil: check smscb10:42
FatPhiljonwil pastebin a few, see if any patterns drop out.10:42
jonwilMaybe its a standard SMS PDU10:43
DocScrutinizer05there won't be any patterns, it's 7/810:43
DocScrutinizer05yes, it is10:43
DocScrutinizer05at least afaik10:43
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DocScrutinizer05there's a standard SMS "codec" on ~phonecontrol10:48
infobotsomebody said phonecontrol was
DocScrutinizer05modem can buffer SMS locally, store them to SIM, or directly and synchronously deliver them to APE10:49
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DocScrutinizer05and - also theoretically - you can read the local buffer and the SIM SMS storage10:50
DocScrutinizer05and I guess that's exactly what CSD does. All three of them10:51
DocScrutinizer05probably from SIM it will read only SMS marked as "unread"10:51
jonwilCSD has specific dbus calls for SIM SMS10:54
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jonwiland I dont think it feeds SIM SMSs to anything else in the AP stack, just regular incoming SMSs10:54
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jonwili.e. the only way to read SIM SMSs is by calling manually
FatPhilDocScrutinizer05: that was my reasoning: packed 7-bits is simple to decide10:57
FatPhildecode, even10:57
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DocScrutinizer053gpp AT command lists give some inspiration how a modem *might* handle that stuff11:33
jonwilI bet if I wanted to I could probably write something and use some code from ofono to decode the SMS (same as I did to decode the cell broadcast SMSs)11:40
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DocScrutinizer05jonwil: SMs from modem are always same encoding, no matter if realtime or read from SIM11:52
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joshgillieshey Pali is 0xffff able to flash emmc yet?12:36
joshgilliesnoticed some activity in on the repo12:36
Palino, 0xFFFF has no eMMC support12:36
joshgilliesseems to be progressing nicely12:36
joshgilliesgood to know, thanks for the info :)12:38
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jonwilStill getting nowhere with pulseaudio stuff16:06
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jonwilI still cant figure out what tells pulseaudio-nokia-voice "hey, feed this audio through the cellular audio pathway and libcmtspeech"16:14
jonwilI also cant figure out just what processing is applied to VoIP (or to cellular) audio and whether we will need that same processing on the Neo900 or not16:17
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DrCodehi all17:13
DrCodefor some resone cssu crashed in install, I will need to reflush meamo or Is it possible to reinstall it?17:14
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Defiantuhm..this is bad17:24
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DefiantWhat is wrong when my n900 does not charge from AC-10E anymore? Tried a new charger => same problem. It still charges from USB17:25
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FatPhilDrCode: I would hope that the install is just a sequence of apt commands, so should be relatively stateless, and capable of being rerun. Emphasis on "hope".17:28
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DrCodehi faari-ddr17:39
DrCodehi FatPhil17:40
DrCodeI will reflaush it again17:40
DrCodeI am waitting till  my battery recharge17:41
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Defiantuhm does nokia still repair n900s?18:13
wmaronesince they're probably all out of warranty by now18:13
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Defiantlooks like I have to try fixing the usb myself then? :(18:19
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DocScrutinizer05I guess in 35 min there's another council meeting? I hope this time all council members ahve a chance to join in, we got urgent need to discuss and coordinate elections20:26
DocScrutinizer05thedead1440: sixwheeledbeast: chem|st: merlin1991: qwazix: ^^^20:27
DocScrutinizer05~seen woody1461920:27
infobotwoody14619 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 28d 23h 34m 33s ago, saying: 'odd... Time to reboot. :)'.20:28
sixwheeledbeastFYI on holiday for a week starting now, lift just arrived. TTFN o/ Laters, DocScritinizer0520:28
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qwazixDocScrutinizer05, present!20:31
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DocScrutinizer05warfare: kolp: FatPhil: freemangordon: we'll need you there too, since I hope for discussion of karma as a mandatory prerequisite for elections20:51
kolpI'm (t)here, but can only pay attention tothe chat with half an eye20:52
sonoare processes suspended when switching tasks?20:53
FatPhilDocScrutinizer05: meeting where?20:55
kolpsono: In maemo? No.20:55
FatPhilheaven forfend!20:55
sonomust have been a freak incident20:56
sonoi am downloading the debian image and switched to a second running xterm20:56
sonoand when i switched back, the download was in a stall20:56
sonoa nice device for its time21:00
* sono never owned one before21:00
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sonoi hope to make it my primary phone, perhaps21:01
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sonosorry, i am talking about an n900 of course.21:03
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DrCodehi all21:09
DrCodeI try to flash again21:09
DrCodeIt worked21:10
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DrCodehi all21:47
DrCodeI have strange problem in n90021:48
DrCodewhen I am using 3g data, I can ping to wan address, but it can't resolve names21:48
DrCodeany idea?21:48
Wizzupdns not working?21:48
DrCodeI tryid to had goole dns , nameserver
DrCodeand it dosn';t work21:49
DrCodeput ping work ok21:49
DrCodelike somthing blocking udp port 5321:49
DrCodeWizzup, any idea?21:50
Wizzupnot really, beyond no name server being set21:51
DrCodeI will check it again21:51
DrCodeI use those flash: RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin21:52
DrCodeis it ok?21:52
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sonohmm it appears that xcb has an endianness bug resulting in a failed assertion at xcb_io.c:24923:48
* sono doesn't have a build toolchain up yet23:49
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Paliendianess bug??23:59

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