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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, not even strace left me any wiser | 00:15 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer05 | *might* be related to content of /etc/timezone which is a link to a binary | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 33 2013-06-18 05:17 /etc/localtime -> /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, sorry, scrap that | 00:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=463 :-/ | 00:57 |
| povbot_ | Bug 463: Date format should be user defined | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WONTFIX | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems some gasheads compiled in hard date format to some stuff | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36704 | 01:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and, as usual, the *extremely helpful*¡ BS from Nokia forum | 01:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://discussions.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/Nokia-N900-date-formatting-inflexibilities/td-p/625742 | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8291 | 01:08 |
| povbot_ | Bug 8291: Enable CONFIG_LOCALE_SUPPORT in busybox | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8291#c2 RIGHT ON, RIGHT ON | 01:09 |
| povbot_ | Bug 8291: Enable CONFIG_LOCALE_SUPPORT in busybox | 01:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | BWAHAHAHAHA id=8291#c7 | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8291#c13 Eero Tamminen what a bonehead | 01:18 |
| povbot_ | Bug 8291: Enable CONFIG_LOCALE_SUPPORT in busybox | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yessir, queenbeecon for example | 01:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: baseline, pt_PT looks nice, and don't hope for messybox. As usual | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: for bash+gnutils: LC_ALL=sv_SE date +%x | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LC_TIME=sv_SE date +%x works as well | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2013-07-23 | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | however: | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# LC_TIME=sv_SE date | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tis 23 jul 2013 | 01:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I *think* there's a tool around locale to chenge the default time format in a locale | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | i.e. in /usr/share/zoneinfo/Europe/Berlin or whatever is yours | 01:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | localedef comes to mind | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If the second argument to setlocale(3) is empty string, "", for the default locale, it is determined using the following steps: | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1. If there is a non-null environment variable LC_ALL, the value of LC_ALL is used. | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2. If an environment variable with the same name as one of the categories above exists and is non-null, its value is used for that category. | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 3. If there is a non-null environment variable LANG, the value of LANG is used. | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | also see strftime(3) | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ENVIRONMENT | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | The environment variables TZ and LC_TIME are used. | 01:47 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eQLe3iIMN7k | 02:52 |
| Lava_Croft | wauw | 02:52 |
| Lava_Croft | thats one ugly brick | 02:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | I like it. | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | The software has fundamental issues, to a degree. | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | If users need one android app occasionally, they're staying in android. | 02:57 |
| SpeedEvil | The other huge elephant in the room. This thing isn't shipping till next summer, or I'll eat it. | 03:01 |
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| SpeedEvil | I might sort-of-consider one. If it wasn't for the 28 day warranty. | 03:02 |
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| wmarone | heh, inside of my n900's slider is like a keyboard after a few months | 05:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | ? | 05:43 |
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| psycho_oreos | I'm guess all the accrued dust, grease, etc has gathered around the slider, keyboard area. | 05:53 |
| wmarone | oh yes | 05:59 |
| * wmarone blasts it clean | 05:59 | |
| SpeedEvil | ah. right | 05:59 |
| wmarone | potential brain transplant test subject | 05:59 |
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| DrCode | hi all | 07:54 |
| DrCode | I want to format my microsd, what filesystem to use? ext3 or ext2? | 07:55 |
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| psycho_oreos | Don't know, split microSD in half, format one with ext2 and the other with ext3. See which one rubs on you better.. | 08:14 |
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| kerio | DrCode: ext4 | 09:10 |
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| SAiF | ^^ does mamo support ext4? | 10:14 |
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| kerio | kernel-power does | 10:51 |
| kerio | and the automounter from cssu supports anything you throw at it, with kernel support | 10:51 |
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| SAiF | hmm okay... kerio | 11:00 |
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| XATRIX | Hi, i have VERY bad skype video quality... The picture of persion i call is terrible blocked | 13:43 |
| XATRIX | pixelized | 13:43 |
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| XATRIX | My video almost hang on the other side | 13:44 |
| XATRIX | But the tiny window on my screen shows good cam performance | 13:44 |
| XATRIX | What's wrong with it ? | 13:44 |
| XATRIX | I have quite good enough connection | 13:44 |
| DrCode | hi all | 13:44 |
| DrCode | I can't mount ext4 | 13:44 |
| DrCode | has loop | 13:45 |
| DrCode | I got invalid option | 13:45 |
| DrCode | any idea? | 13:45 |
| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: any ideas ? | 13:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: you most probably have either generally flawed poor bandwidth connection to internet, or your carrier (or far end's carrier) do traffic shaping based on SPI, thus violating net neutrality (<-not sure if that's the correct english term) | 13:49 |
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| XATRIX | Hm... | 13:50 |
| XATRIX | I call for my partner that is beside me | 13:50 |
| XATRIX | In the same office | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oh haha | 13:50 |
| XATRIX | :) | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that this usually makes any difference, since... it's internet | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but given the way peer2peer networks like skype work, this particularl situation might introduce special obstacles | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g when you both use same LAN with a router that does no local loopback | 13:52 |
| XATRIX | {v | 13:52 |
| XATRIX | Hmm | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus for reaching your far end next to you, you need a relay somewhere outside your LAN | 13:52 |
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| XATRIX | Can i skype you? | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while everybody else you could reach directly with no intermediate hops | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no skype here | 13:53 |
| XATRIX | :( | 13:53 |
| XATRIX | Anyone can help me to test it ? | 13:53 |
| japa-fi | xatrix make another skype account to your computer and call to that | 13:57 |
| DrCode | Why I can't mound ext4 loop .img? any idea please | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | japa-fi: that's not helping either | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that would still be all local | 13:58 |
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| XATRIX | japa-fi: yes, it doesn't matter, i need to make external call | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | XATRIX: you can use wireshark to analyze the VoIP traffic, I guess | 13:59 |
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| XATRIX | DocScrutinizer05: it's a bit complicated. | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno if wireshark has dissectors for skype | 13:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for sure not for the netto traffic since it's encrypted afaik | 14:00 |
| bef0rd | why don't you call the skype test service? | 14:00 |
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| bef0rd | In your Contact list, select Skype Test Call. It may also be called Echo / Sound Test Service or Skype Test Call (echo123). | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I was about to suggest that, but then thought it might not help for video | 14:00 |
| bef0rd | oh video | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, and "oh, skype" | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | skype is a nightmare | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and beware! some corporate LANs may have a policy that earns you losing your employment when using skype on the company's LAN | 14:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | skype is pretty hard to impossible to manage on a network admin level, since it acts unpredictably | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so even when a network admin would try to block it, there are no reliable firewall rules to establish that | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | likewise assigning QoS priority to the skype traffic is basically impossible | 14:07 |
| bef0rd | sometimes skype video sucks without reason | 14:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I wonder what's up with the $internet* | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many sites are down for maintenance, or simply don't work anymore | 14:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and then even this: [2013-07-22 21:21:58] [Notice] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, some of you may have been experiencing some temporary issues relating to SSL whilst we updated our certificates. Unfortunately this update was necessary for security reasons, you can read a bit more about the issues at http://blog.freenode.net/2013/07/server-hosting-and-trust/ - we apologise for the inconvenience and for the issue arising in the first | 14:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | place. Thank you for using freenode! | 14:15 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: just freenode? | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, no. It seems to me something particularly nasty is going on - but then that might just be me | 14:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw I don't think that the ubuntuphone looks any particularly ugly | 15:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but again it has no hw keyboard | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and - duh- a sapphire glass screen? that means capacitive I'd think | 15:38 |
| DrCode | strange , I have .img file (ext4) , in ubuntu I can mount it but not in maemo | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Mr Shuttleworth, show me how to use a sketching program on you rphone | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: you have KP? | 15:39 |
| DrCode | what is KP ? | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~kp | 15:39 |
| infobot | [kp] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85665 | 15:39 |
| jon_y | kernel Power | 15:39 |
| DrCode | I am using cssu | 15:39 |
| jon_y | oh it is then | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that doesn't mean anything | 15:40 |
| DrCode | hmm 051r1 | 15:40 |
| DrCode | yes | 15:40 |
| DrCode | I hope its ok | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | should | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lsmod | 15:40 |
| jon_y | maybe ubuntu has some proprietary ext4 extensions | 15:40 |
| DrCode | I also load isofs.ko | 15:40 |
| DrCode | but same results | 15:40 |
| DrCode | I see | 15:41 |
| jon_y | ext4 should be autoloaded if you try to mount the image | 15:41 |
| jon_y | -t ext4? | 15:41 |
| Wizzup | wtf are propietary ext4 extensions | 15:41 |
| DrCode | invalid option it say | 15:41 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: ask ubuntu | 15:41 |
| Wizzup | no, I'm asking you | 15:41 |
| jon_y | iirc there is a mount option to set fs | 15:41 |
| Wizzup | All the ext4 code is gpl, how can it be proprietary | 15:41 |
| DrCode | well, I can convert it in ubuntu to standart ext4? | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modinfo ext4 | 15:42 |
| jon_y | DrCode: I was just kidding about the extensions | 15:42 |
| jon_y | -t is an option for mount | 15:42 |
| DrCode | ok | 15:42 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: gpl or not, violations going to happen | 15:42 |
| DrCode | I did "-o loop -t ext4" | 15:42 |
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| Wizzup | jon_y: you sounds nuts :) | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -o loop is deprecated iirc | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | modprobe ext4 | 15:43 |
| Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: Is it? Don't think so -- what is the new syntax for loop devices? | 15:43 |
| DrCode | seems to be ok modinfo ext4 | 15:43 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: actually, it happens all the time, just look at android and all the proprietary mods :) | 15:43 |
| DrCode | I did | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | losetup? | 15:43 |
| jon_y | kernel blobs | 15:43 |
| Wizzup | jon_y: you still haven't linked me to ubuntu's proprietary ext4 extensions | 15:43 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: I am trying to say that GPL doesn't mean anything anymore to some developers | 15:44 |
| DrCode | what is losetup | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rtfm! | 15:44 |
| jon_y | just another license to run over | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | man losetup | 15:44 |
| Wizzup | jon_y: Ah, you're working for the FUD company...? | 15:44 |
| jon_y | nope, I am strongly pro GPL | 15:44 |
| Wizzup | then stop the FUD :) | 15:44 |
| Lava_Croft | which implies you are anti freedom | 15:44 |
| jon_y | to the point of being a GPL nazi | 15:44 |
| Wizzup | If people violate the gpl, you can act upon it | 15:44 |
| Lava_Croft | GPL sucks because it violates my freedom | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | Lava_Croft-- | 15:45 |
| jon_y | just that I given up trying to fight BSD people that like freedom in chains | 15:45 |
| Lava_Croft | freedom is chains is exactly the GPL | 15:45 |
| DrCode | it say invalid argument | 15:45 |
| Wizzup | jon_y: sure, but the thing is, there's no need to bash ubuntu -- they aren't violating the gpl here | 15:45 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: I know, I was kidding at first | 15:45 |
| DrCode | mount -o loop -t ext4 my.img /mnt | 15:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: modinfo ext4 !!! | 15:46 |
| Wizzup | and sure, people violate the gpl, just like they violate other licenses, and then you can go after them | 15:46 |
| Wizzup | if you wish | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | DrCode: rtfm ! losetup | 15:46 |
| DrCode | it show 2.6.28.10-power51 | 15:46 |
| jon_y | sure, I cared once, but now I only look after software that I have stake in | 15:46 |
| jon_y | some are GPL | 15:46 |
| jon_y | others I just contribute | 15:47 |
| DrCode | DocScrutinizer05, It seems to be ok | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | then check proper syntax for losetup | 15:47 |
| jon_y | Wizzup: also, bashing ubuntu is kind of the in-thing now | 15:48 |
| DrCode | I didn't use losetup | 15:48 |
| jon_y | sticking it to the man | 15:48 |
| DrCode | why do I need losetup? | 15:48 |
| Wizzup | jon_y: ya, I don't use it either, but still | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | do you even read what I write here? | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mount -o loop is deprectaed and obsolete | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it might still work | 15:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno | 15:49 |
| DrCode | ok | 15:49 |
| DrCode | I miss it | 15:49 |
| jaska | hmm, obsolete how? it just implicitly losetups on mount and deletes on unmount? | 15:49 |
| DrCode | sorry | 15:49 |
| DrCode | losetup do I need to use -o ? | 15:50 |
| DrCode | or just losetup dev/loop0 my.img? | 15:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | This type of mount knows about three options, namely loop, offset and encryption, that are really options to losetup(8). (These options can be used in addition to | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those specific to the filesystem type.) | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If no explicit loop device is mentioned (but just an option ‘-o loop’ is given), then mount will try to find some unused loop device and use that. If you are not | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so unwise as to make /etc/mtab a symbolic link to /proc/mounts then any loop device allocated by mount will be freed by umount. You can also free a loop device by | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hand, using ‘losetup -d’, see losetup(8). | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | << | 15:53 |
| DrCode | ok | 15:54 |
| DrCode | thankyou | 15:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically you first mount a image file to a *device* (the loop device) - then mount the loop device like a usual partition to a mountpoint | 15:55 |
| jon_y | ooh offsets, interesting | 15:56 |
| jon_y | I can mount partitions in whole disk images | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, you might need correct offset to mount an image file | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you frequently need to deal with that stuff when loopmounting a xen diskimage | 15:57 |
| jon_y | 63 sectors to first partition or something, I can't remember | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to access the VM disk content without starting the VM | 15:57 |
| jon_y | need dd to make sure | 15:58 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: oh, to access a disk image with a mbr? | 15:58 |
| kerio | i always wondered how to do that, actually | 15:58 |
| win7mac | guys, get out, enjoy the sun! ;) | 15:58 |
| jon_y | kerio: yes | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | offset might largely depend on your image file - was it a raw disk image incl all MBR and stuff? and was the disk partitioned? | 15:58 |
| jon_y | win7mac: sun got bought by oracle | 15:58 |
| jon_y | DocScrutinizer05: likely everything including mbr | 15:59 |
| jon_y | whatever qemu raw uses | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from our blade-b history: | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 151 20130723 - 15:00:05 dd if=/dev/zero of=www.img bs=1 count=1 seek=30G | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 152 20130723 - 15:00:05 losetup -f www.img | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 153 20130723 - 15:00:05 losetup | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 154 20130723 - 15:00:05 losetup -a | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 155 20130723 - 15:00:05 mkfs.ext4 /dev/loop1 | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 156 20130723 - 15:00:05 mount /dev/loop1 /mnt | 16:02 |
| jon_y | seek=30G nice | 16:04 |
| jon_y | now if I need to find out if my workstation at work is recent enough to support it | 16:05 |
| jon_y | Linux 2.6.8 is the cutting edge system there | 16:05 |
| jon_y | so cutting edge that software migration is still on going after 2 years | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1350 20130314 - 19:17:12 losetup -f www.img | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1351 20130314 - 19:17:15 losetup -a | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1352 20130314 - 19:17:28 fsck -yv /dev/loop5 | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1353 20130314 - 19:17:38 mount /dev/loop5 /mnt | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1354 20130314 - 19:17:40 cd /mnt | 16:06 |
| jon_y | does loop actually have much overhead? | 16:07 |
| jon_y | or is it negligible? | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1361 20130314 - 19:18:12 umount /dev/loop5 | 16:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1362 20130314 - 19:18:17 losetup -d /dev/loop5 | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 483 20130722 - 19:43:47 losetup -f monitor.img | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 484 20130722 - 19:43:47 losetup -a | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 485 20130722 - 19:43:47 kpartx -a /dev/loop3 | 16:10 |
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| Pali | WARNING: Somebody pushed new version of libx11-data *system* package to extras-devel | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | URL? | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I gonna nuke that package immediately | 16:29 |
| Pali | version at downloads.maemo.nokia.com is 2:1.1.99.6+0m5 and pushed version to extras-devel is 2:1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb | 16:29 |
| Pali | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libx11-data/1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb/ | 16:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: is nuking it the right thing to do? | 16:29 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: I do not know, but system packages should not be pushed to extras(devel/testing) | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ye | 16:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 16:30 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: it is possible to remove it from extras-devel to prevent some problems? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so hurry, I'm about to leave for an appointment i'm already late | 16:31 |
| Pali | can be autobuilder configured to reject system packages? | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I have "remove this package. package will be removed from repository automatically. ONLy FOR AFMINS. USE WITH CARE!" | 16:32 |
| kerio | i think he meant automagically | 16:33 |
| kerio | like, every system package | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | c'mon "DELETE? yes no" | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm one click from deleteing it and one second from leaving | 16:34 |
| Pali | now I tried to do apt-get upgrade on n900 | 16:35 |
| Pali | and: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libx/libx11/libx11-data_1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb_all.deb Size mismatch | 16:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | meh! | 16:35 |
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| kerio | close enough | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Package has been removed from the repository. Go back to the package instance page. | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | o/ | 16:36 |
| Pali | so delete it is also broken in apt repository | 16:36 |
| Pali | btw, on this page http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/libx11-data/1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb/ is missing who uploaded that package | 16:37 |
| Pali | when will be package removed from apt repository? | 16:42 |
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| Pali | it is still in extras-devel apt repo | 16:42 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: is this normal? http://maemo.org/packages/view/modrana/ | 16:47 |
| Pali | try to open above page | 16:47 |
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| marcosx86 | Hello all, I have a defected N900, can anyone help me solve my issue? Here is a demonstration: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOMQR6FZuek on 8:30 I managed to make it boot, even for some seconds. | 17:17 |
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| SpeedEvil | Unfortunately, it's a decidedly non-trivial fix | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | You likely - if it turns out not to be a connector issue - need to re-work some joint on the motherboard. | 17:42 |
| SpeedEvil | This will involve at best a high chance of damaging it - even if you're skilled in SMT rework. | 17:43 |
| Pali | package is still in repository: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libx/libx11/libx11-data_1.1.99.6+0m5+withxcb_all.deb | 17:45 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05: ^^^ | 17:45 |
| Pali | apt-get still show me new version | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Pali: sorry, on the road | 17:48 |
| Pali | merlin1991: ping | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | package promotion to repo said flawed/broken, so I guess is deleting | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ask merlin1991 | 17:48 |
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| yokotest | needed some help for using scratchbox2 with qemu. but having hardtime understanding the difference in the commands while initializing the sb2-init(scratchbox2) target. | 18:19 |
| yokotest | what is the difference between sb2-init armel $HOME/path-to-arm-linaro-cross-toolchain/bin/arm-gnueabi-gcc | 18:20 |
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| yokotest | and sb2-init -c qemu-arm ARM /opt/arm-2011.03/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc | 18:20 |
| yokotest | ignoring the toolchain path | 18:20 |
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| yokotest | anyone? | 18:25 |
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| FIQ | hi | 18:28 |
| FIQ | regarding that python issue | 18:28 |
| FIQ | today, earlier when booting up the phone, I got the issue with slow mounts again | 18:29 |
| FIQ | however, this time, after waiting a few minutes - nothing happened | 18:29 |
| FIQ | Just to make sure it wasn't just delayed even further, I just played a game meanwhile | 18:29 |
| FIQ | but after 30 minutes, it had yet to mount | 18:29 |
| FIQ | So I ended up mounting it manually... | 18:29 |
| FIQ | Just fyi | 18:30 |
| FIQ | And I still don't know what the issue is caused by | 18:30 |
| FIQ | Also looked into /etc/fstab before mounting it manually | 18:30 |
| FIQ | it wasn't even listed there | 18:30 |
| FIQ | so when it was auto-generated, they were basically completely missing | 18:30 |
| psycho_oreos | I think this is an issue with dbus, just a hunch. I was recently experimenting on writing upstart scripts and for some reason my script didn't start even though I simply copied and pasted a working upstart script and renamed a few things here and there. | 18:31 |
| FIQ | well, my syslog did tell you when you looked into it that there was some potential issues with dbus | 18:32 |
| FIQ | don't know *what* issues, but yeah | 18:32 |
| psycho_oreos | dbus was lagging according to your old syslog output, it was waiting on something but I'm not too familiar with upstart and how it works. | 18:33 |
| FIQ | neither am I :p | 18:33 |
| FIQ | and I don't know if this is a common issue either | 18:33 |
| FIQ | i.e. you have the same lagging issues, and that it's normal in N900 for it to do that | 18:34 |
| FIQ | (you and everyone else I mean) | 18:34 |
| psycho_oreos | My syslog isn't working (again).. I don't think its normal for dbus to do that, it could be a missing upstart script or something that is causing dbus to be lagging. | 18:36 |
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| psycho_oreos | In theory a properly functional upstart would allow one to be able to write a custom script that would simply show a banner to tell you that upstart has finished. In my case somewhere is broken and I can't understand what or where when even syslogd is failing to output the logs to the right place. | 18:40 |
| psycho_oreos | You probably have a working syslogd, there might be measures available for you to take to try and take. | 18:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | good finds, I'll look into it later | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bbl | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | syslog depends on having write access to $LOGDIR/syslog | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if for whatever reason mounting of /home and even mount -o remount,rw / fails resp takes ages, e.g due to fsck then you shouldn't be surprised to see mounts *to* those filesystems fail | 20:05 |
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| psycho_oreos | Yeah that would be from /etc/event.d/rcS-late or wherever the file resides. Re: syslog issue, the issue seems to be way more complicated than that. When I ran sysklogd manually or even (re)starting it via /sbin/st{art,op} syslogd writes to the aforementioned files. Just not at boot, to make matters even worse, syslogd is started well beforehand and it doesn't seem to have issues from upstart. I | 20:14 |
| psycho_oreos | I'm turning debugging mode on and reading from the output, hoping to get some sense out of it. | 20:14 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: are you talking to me? | 20:17 |
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| psycho_oreos | FIQ, not for what I wrote above. Did you try and do some experimentations to see where the issue lies? DocScrutinizer05 and I sort of gave hints on where the issue may lie. | 20:17 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: if these hints were given after I posted what I did before - I didn't see those | 20:18 |
| psycho_oreos | Actually partially, the first sentence that I wrote was about mounting issue where /home may fail (along others iinm). | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2013-07-23T18:40:19 | 20:19 |
| psycho_oreos | http://privatepaste.com/f1a96cc863 ... bah DocScrutinizer05 beat me to it lol. | 20:20 |
| FIQ | ty DocScrutinizer05 | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /topic is your friend ;-) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and of course mgedmin | 20:23 |
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| FIQ | right | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mgedmin: Tanks Marius for your very long term and pretty much vital support on chanlogging | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks even :-) | 20:25 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: but I've never had issues with mounting /home, and the device boots up (I'm very confident /home needs to be mounted before this) just as fast as it did when I first got the device, i.e. there's no notable slowdown | 20:25 |
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| FIQ | the only slowdown I've had (and even fails) are with those python bindmounts | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | strange | 20:26 |
| FIQ | and when I mounted them earlier manually, it was done instantly | 20:26 |
| FIQ | i.e. no delay | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | gnutils mount? | 20:26 |
| psycho_oreos | Usually if there's issues with mounting, I thought syslogd would have logged that. | 20:27 |
| FIQ | also created a simple script file with those mounts running as a temporary work-around if the mounts refuses to be done in the future... but the optimal solution would be have it working completely | 20:27 |
| psycho_oreos | Particularly for /home for instance. | 20:27 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: well, the one I gave you (regardless of the private info) was one where python bindmounts was significantly slower than it should (but that time it didn't fail as this time) | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /bin/mount | 20:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2012-09-11 15:34 /bin/mount -> busybox | 20:28 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: same output here | 20:28 |
| FIQ | and "which mount" shows it's using /bin/mount | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# busybox | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | BusyBox v1.10.2 (Debian 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso31+0cssu0) multi-call binary | 20:29 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ, yeah, I do recall there was no issues with mounting from that log, At least not for non-binding mounts. I'm still trying to get my syslogd to work properly so that I can see if my device would also show slowdowns from dbus as well. I don't expect that would be a natural behaviour but like I said, my syslogd is refusing to work properly so its hard to say. | 20:29 |
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| FIQ | BusyBox v1.21.0 (Debian 1.21.0power2+thumb1) multi-call binary. | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 20:30 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: do you assume this can be the issue? | 20:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pretty much, YES | 20:30 |
| FIQ | (^ got that earlier due to some features I missed, mostly compression utilities IIRC) | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what I always warned about | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | cassandra | 20:31 |
| FIQ | you did? | 20:31 |
| FIQ | well I guess I can rollback to the default binary | 20:31 |
| FIQ | ...hmm not sure if uninstalling it will simply pull back the old one | 20:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bitched a uncounted number of times "DO NOT mess with init shell!!" | 20:32 |
| FIQ | or if I need to install some package which that one conflicts with | 20:32 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: I did not see this, if you're referring to me :p | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just saying | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not your fault | 20:32 |
| FIQ | oh well | 20:32 |
| FIQ | how to get back to the old busybox? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and after all it might turn out it's _not_ messybox-power fault | 20:33 |
| FIQ | I'm not sure if simply uninstalling whatever provides busybox will work | 20:33 |
| FIQ | as I think that would leave me with *no* busybox | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just say it *may* be, and that's what I always warned might happen | 20:33 |
| FIQ | *uninstalling whatever provides busybox-power | 20:33 |
| FIQ | Well | 20:33 |
| FIQ | That's easy enough to figure out | 20:33 |
| FIQ | fix the default one, do a few boots, and if it doesn't happen again for a week I guess we can conclude that was the error | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: there's a -(imulate) call in apt-get, no? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -s(imulate) | 20:34 |
| FIQ | and once it fails again, conclude the opposite | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just fgure some fool "fixed a bug" in messybox power mount plugin | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or simply linked it against a lib that's not in rootfs | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or whatever | 20:36 |
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| FIQ | well mount *does* work, after all it can mount non-python bindmounts (including /opt) fine | 20:37 |
| psycho_oreos | hmm, mine has the same version as FIQ (re: busybox-power) and I don't have that issue with python bind mounts. *shrugs* can't hurt to try out standard busybox either way. | 20:37 |
| FIQ | so it can't be the latter | 20:37 |
| FIQ | i.e. making it not work at all | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | virtually any API change or call sequence change can invoke a hidden race condition | 20:37 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: yeah, just said it couldn't be linked to a broken lib as that would make mount fail completely, no? | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably, yes | 20:38 |
| psycho_oreos | Actually correction, mine isn't thumb optimised: BusyBox v1.21.0 (Debian 1.21.0power2) multi-call binary. | 20:38 |
| FIQ | hmm this is strange | 20:38 |
| FIQ | did dpkg -L busybox-power to see if that's what provided the changed /bin/busybox | 20:38 |
| FIQ | and while I have a modified /bin/busybox (given the fact that it gives the above result @version), that package does NOT seem to provide this file | 20:39 |
| Sicelo | dpkg -S <file> will tell you where it came from | 20:39 |
| FIQ | oh, was going to google how to do that lol | 20:39 |
| FIQ | ty | 20:39 |
| FIQ | hm I don't understand this output exactly | 20:40 |
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| FIQ | diversion by busybox-power from: /bin/busybox | 20:41 |
| FIQ | diversion by busybox-power to: /opt/busybox-power/busybox.distrib | 20:41 |
| FIQ | busybox: /bin/busybox | 20:41 |
| FIQ | hmm | 20:42 |
| FIQ | oh, seems like what busybox-power did was to move the original file to that distrib file, and placed its' own file in /bin/busybox | 20:43 |
| FIQ | then I guess I can simply uninstall busybox-power | 20:43 |
| FIQ | and *if* that somehow still gets rid of /bin/busybox, reinstall busybox | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ask kerio, master of dpgk divert | 20:45 |
| Sicelo | yup, kerio ;) | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm quite sure ~50 other users in this channel can teach you about dpkg divert - I can't | 20:47 |
| FIQ | wut | 20:47 |
| FIQ | this doesn't make any sense | 20:47 |
| FIQ | the file in /opt/busybox-power/busybox.distrib is NOT the vanilla busybox version | 20:47 |
| FIQ | but rather another version of busybox-power | 20:47 |
| FIQ | that... doesn't make any sense | 20:47 |
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| FIQ | but rather 1.20.2power4 | 20:49 |
| FIQ | and the removal of busybox-power just made me end up with an older busybox-power version, allthough busybox-power cleaned up its' files | 20:49 |
| FIQ | so I'll have to reinstall busybox now anyway... | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there been incredible mess with messybox-power and cssu updates | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc how that got resolved | 20:51 |
| FIQ | ok | 20:51 |
| FIQ | now I have 3:1.10.2.legal-1osso31+0cssu0 | 20:51 |
| FIQ | don't know if this will solve my issue though, but oh well | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically it boilded down to: cssu did try update to busybox, that conflicted when user had busybox-power installed, and rendered user's system fubar | 20:52 |
| psycho_oreos | According to this: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=busybox-power;a=blob;f=debian/busybox-power.prerm;h=a0d4ea18e79dea8733927588e208f30a1edd8554 original busybox should be in /bin/busybox.distrib, if that doesn't exist it will show an error. | 20:52 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: I have no such file -- allthough this is most likely due to me uninstalling busybox-power | 20:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | FIQ, its supposedly to be part of prerm script. I'm guessing its what dpkg does during removal stages, actually before removing. | 20:54 |
| FIQ | hmm | 20:54 |
| psycho_oreos | Anyway you have original busybox back, so the case is now irrelevant. | 20:55 |
| FIQ | yeah | 20:55 |
| FIQ | well, cssu busyboc | 20:55 |
| FIQ | *busybox | 20:55 |
| FIQ | I've so far encountered 2 issues since optfs restoration | 20:55 |
| FIQ | Let's see if there will be any more | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thinking about it, I could even figure how the fstab patch to cssu-t8 never been tested aganst standard busybox | 20:55 |
| FIQ | seems like I'm running T8.2 | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: I think all that bug hunting on your severely tainted system is not fruitful | 20:57 |
| FIQ | so whatever the patch is, I have it | 20:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we easily could hunt this and another dozen bugs for the next 6 months | 20:58 |
| FIQ | lol | 20:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never being able to reproduce it on a clean system that hasn't suffered massive damage from opt "restauration" | 20:59 |
| FIQ | heh | 20:59 |
| psycho_oreos | Yeah I've pointed out before that the setup you have now (FIQ) is very much a zombified setup. | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually the standard suggestion is: do a osso-backup, do a BM backup just in case, then reflash and restore from osso-backup | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, in your case that's a decent chunk of work | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since you also need to restore PK, CSSU-T and CSSU-thumb (aiui) manually | 21:03 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if FIQ is still "alive" | 21:11 | |
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| FredrIQ | DocScrutinizer05: True | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and, how feels booting with stock busybox? | 21:12 |
| FredrIQ | Worth pointing out that this issue existed before already (the python one), I just didn't bother then -- not sure about the busybox issue | 21:12 |
| FredrIQ | Though, you *are* right in that this restore probably introduces some issues | 21:13 |
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| FIQ | that *might* be possible to solve, but would take very long | 21:13 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: no issue this boot | 21:13 |
| FIQ | allthough it was occasional after all | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I'd love to see you do 2manual bootloop" ;-) | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s/2/"/ | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~status | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 21:14 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: yeah, I'd love to see you do "manual bootloop" ;-) | 21:14 |
| infobot | Since Wed Jul 17 05:38:45 2013, there have been 10 modifications, 332 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 150 commands. I have been awake for 6d 12h 35m 42s this session, and currently reference 119097 factoids. I'm using about 23400 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 1070.09/21.66 child 0/0 | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 21:14 |
| FIQ | as in hard shutdown, or shutting down the right way? | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never do hard shutdown on purpose | 21:14 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: regarding reflashing - how come you didn't ask that from the beginning though? :P | 21:15 |
| FIQ | yes I thought so | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except for very dedicated test case | 21:15 |
| FIQ | just asked, as you put quotes in manual bootloop lol | 21:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: you explicitly said you want to avoid reflashing | 21:16 |
| FIQ | oh I did? | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you had a plan how to avoid it | 21:16 |
| FIQ | ahh | 21:16 |
| FIQ | this was back when I had a corrupted file system | 21:16 |
| FIQ | Well then | 21:16 |
| FIQ | I'll not reflash, unless further issues arise | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's a good plan | 21:16 |
| FIQ | (unless they're minor and I know the problem/solution right away) | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | after all we now have a decent chance to find out if BB-P introduced that mysterious python bindmount issue | 21:17 |
| FIQ | mhm | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we still wouldn't know if BB-P got damaged durng your fs corruption + restore | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but at least we had a clue where to search, or not to search | 21:18 |
| psycho_oreos | There is another alternative plan to forgo flashing (only temporary), you can use one of those osso scripts (can't remember which) to generate a list of user installed packages. Check and see for each of those packages are still publically available, if not repack the debs (and hope they won't contain broken symlinks, etc). Reflash and restore the list of installed packages that you had along with reconfiguring. | 21:19 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: I don't see how this is avoiding flashing though :P | 21:19 |
| FIQ | just making it less cumbersome | 21:19 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ, its better than fixing up issues as you go along :p lol. | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like a terrible amount of work | 21:20 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: depends | 21:20 |
| psycho_oreos | Either way we've all seemed to learn something in this process. | 21:20 |
| FIQ | Unless the issues are major - I'd rather fix them on the go as they're not really going to make things worse (I think..?) | 21:20 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: another solution to avoid reflashing, *and* fix all the bugs is to simply do a combined BM restore | 21:21 |
| FIQ | i.e. optfs and rootfs | 21:21 |
| psycho_oreos | The issue you had with python in that very first instance was quite interesting. It slowly began to not get mounted and eventually stops mounting it properly. | 21:21 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: well as I said - I've had this issue for a long time, not really bothering with it | 21:22 |
| psycho_oreos | Only if you had a current copy of optfs. | 21:22 |
| FIQ | It could have failed before, I don't know | 21:22 |
| FIQ | as my solution was to simply reboot | 21:22 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: my optfs restore was from 7 months ago | 21:22 |
| FIQ | (not my ~, but the optfs) | 21:22 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ, I thought you had a mismatched copy of rootfs vs optfs tarballs. | 21:22 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: yes, this is the case *now* | 21:23 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: I asked before the restore (when fsck messed up completely) if I was going to do optfs+rootfs or only optfs in here | 21:23 |
| FIQ | either you or doc suggested just optfs | 21:23 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos: the *only* issue I have with a combined is that there might be kernel mismatches | 21:24 |
| FIQ | as some (not all!) of my restores are from vanilla, and some for KP (though possibly an older version) | 21:24 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ, doubt it would be me, I usually do complete restore. I recall you had pk with mismatched kernel version. | 21:24 |
| FIQ | Yes, I have several different kernel version restores | 21:24 |
| FIQ | s/restores/backups/ | 21:24 |
| infobot | FIQ meant: Yes, I have several different kernel version backups | 21:24 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ, yeah hence optfs restoration was adequate enough to forgo bootloops. | 21:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you did a mkfs.ext3 on /home | 21:24 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: yes, allthough this was undone by BM | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you asked whether you need to reflash completely or could just fix /home | 21:25 |
| FIQ | apparently BM actually reformats /home when it restores | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, it usually doesn't | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 21:25 |
| FIQ | well during the restore process, it said "Formatting OptFS" | 21:25 |
| FIQ | as the first step | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OOOH! | 21:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that would mean it erradicates ~user/ | 21:26 |
| FIQ | it did restore /home/user as well yes | 21:26 |
| FIQ | Allthough ~ was restored by me afterwards from the backup tar I did earlier | 21:26 |
| FIQ | before I did fsck | 21:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then I have to open a (virtual) ticket against BM, for fixing the wording in menus | 21:27 |
| FIQ | Should have tar-ed the whole file system eh... | 21:27 |
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| FIQ | Then I wouldn't have a fs mismatch issue (allthough the MH issue would be there still) | 21:27 |
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| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: and, if so, my wording was a bit bad | 21:28 |
| psycho_oreos | More like python issue, hence MH. | 21:28 |
| FIQ | psycho_oreos yeah | 21:28 |
| FIQ | .. because what I really asked was "restore rootfs+optfs or just optfs?" | 21:29 |
| FIQ | @ | 21:29 |
| FIQ | @ (20:25:17) (DocScrutinizer05) you asked whether you need to reflash completely or could just fix /home | 21:29 |
| FIQ | oh wait no | 21:29 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: are you referring to before the fsck? | 21:29 |
| FIQ | because then yeah my wording was that | 21:30 |
| FIQ | DocScrutinizer05: what my point really was was that I would rather avoid reflash aka using flasher-3.5 | 21:30 |
| FIQ | while I would rather avoid rootfs restore too, I see this as far less of an issue | 21:31 |
| FIQ | (nothing against the flasher software, but it really doesn't like to reflash unless you try several times, possibly due to driver issues) | 21:32 |
| FIQ | (20:27:07) (DocScrutinizer05) well, then I have to open a (virtual) ticket against BM, for fixing the wording in menus | 21:32 |
| FIQ | hm... but I got the impression that it did restore the entire optfs (allthough I didn't know if it did reformat or not before I actually tried) | 21:33 |
| FIQ | it was you who pointed out that it probably just restored /opt | 21:33 |
| FIQ | (which was why I created the ~ tarball in first place) | 21:33 |
| kerio | FIQ: that's weird, busybox-power tends to do the right thing | 21:39 |
| kerio | maybe it was an older version | 21:39 |
| FIQ | well I had 1.21 and 1.20 | 21:39 |
| FIQ | binaries | 21:39 |
| FIQ | the 1.20 one appeared when uninstalling busybox-power | 21:40 |
| FIQ | so something went wrong | 21:40 |
| FIQ | perhaps it moved the 1.20 version to /bin/busybox.distrib accidentally? | 21:40 |
| FIQ | when updating to 1.21 I mean | 21:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | FIQ: BM says "backup /opt" afaik | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it actually backups /home, incl /home/opt and /home/user, then this is a severely misleading wording | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | basically there's no such thing like an optfs | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# LANG=en_EN df -h /opt | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /home/opt 2.0G 819M 1.1G 43% /opt | 21:51 |
| psycho_oreos | I somehow doubt BM would say "backup /home" when the created tarball is labelled optfs. | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | localization/i18n ofgnu-df is abysmal btw | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | an indigestable gibberish mix of english and german | 21:52 |
| FIQ | lol | 21:53 |
| FIQ | afk | 21:53 |
| FIQ | will look into the wording when back | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so if we assume optfs has any reasonable meaning as a term, then it would be /home/opt | 21:54 |
| psycho_oreos | "$T2S -s 2 -H left -y $y -T 0 -t " Backing up Optfs with Tar..."; y=$((y+20))" | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | when BM saves /home and not /home/opt then this is wrong, either in wording or in what it actually does | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# df -h ~user | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Dateisystem Size Used Avail Use% Eingehängt auf | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | /dev/mmcblk0p2 2,0G 819M 1,1G 43% /home | 21:57 |
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| Pali | use LANG=C :-) | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since /opt is a bindmount, it basically has no directly associates filesystem at all | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: see above, also note that LANG=C does NOT work on maemo | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I intentionally left out LANG=en_EN to en_passant demonstrate >><DocScrutinizer05> an indigestable gibberish mix of english and german | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you're capable to deduce what the german strings mean, by comparing to above paste | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | psycho_oreos: what does BM use in tar command? /opt? /home? /home/opt? | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even an arbitrary generic mountpoint where /dev/mmcblk0p2 got mounted to? | 22:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sth like "mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/0p2; tar ... /mnt/0p2/opt" ? | 22:06 |
| psycho_oreos | It mounts /dev/mmcblk0p2, and "gtar p"$backupOptCompress"cf $backupOptLocation ./ --ignore-failed-read --numeric-owner 2> /tmp/tarstatus & pid=$!" | 22:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pondering how BMrev1 did a dd to do volume images, I guess I can understand how this wording and this way to do the backup evolved | 22:08 |
| psycho_oreos | Mounts /dev/mmcblk0p2 to /tmp/mnt/optfs | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's where naming confusion starts | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I gather it then does a "cd /tmp/mnt/optfs" | 22:11 |
| psycho_oreos | Yes and tarballs that directory. | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | before tar-ing up ./ | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, /dev/mmcblk0p2 is _not_ optfs | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even when you mount it to a mountpoint dir called optfs, it stays /home volume (ext3fs) | 22:13 |
| psycho_oreos | Even grepping the output of the (old) compressed tarballs gives /home/user/* files. | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (there's a bit of widespread confusion here about filesystems and volumes. While a volume can have only one filesystem...) | 22:14 |
| psycho_oreos | Rather partitions than filesystem :) | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, LVM defeats the notion of partitions | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's "volume" | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | funny enough I'm not aware of a proper german translation of the term, other than filesystem/dateisystem | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a loopmounted image also hardly is a partition, though it might consist of several virtual partitions | 22:18 |
| psycho_oreos | Heh, not everyone has LVM setup :D. | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but everybody has volumes | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not everybody has partitions | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least on this visible level | 22:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc e.g. mysql could even use raw devices without any MBR and partition table | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a floppy has no partitions, yet it's a volume | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (usually doesn't have partitions...) | 22:20 |
| * psycho_oreos recalls of that windows naming convention, where volumes are used to refer for each hard disk connected regardless of the partitions the volume has or if the whole setup was even in LVM/RAID/JBOD/etc. | 22:20 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that are devices aka drives | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's how I understand all those terms, and try to use them like that | 22:22 |
| psycho_oreos | Was it called devices? o.O I somehow recalled it was named volumes. Even some of the complex areas like when dealing with something like recovery console or maybe even registry editor where certain portions contain the reference "Vol0". | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno about windows | 22:23 |
| psycho_oreos | Ahh, well yeah they tend to have mixed/dubious term usages. | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | windows starts naming confusion by calling itself an OS | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which evidently it wasn't until at least win-xp | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or was it win-nt | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ? | 22:25 |
| psycho_oreos | I actually thought you were referring to windows before, heh. I'm guessing when it comes to LVM, each device or devices connected together are called volume regardless of what medium/density/etc they are. | 22:25 |
| psycho_oreos | *shrugs* they created standards which throw people of other platform users off :) Remember that issues with MB/Mb usage with hard disk manufacturers had to make amends? | 22:27 |
| psycho_oreos | s/es// | 22:27 |
| infobot | psycho_oreos meant: *shrugs* they created standards which throw people of other platform users off :) Remember that issu with MB/Mb usage with hard disk manufacturers had to make amends? | 22:27 |
| psycho_oreos | lol :x | 22:28 |
| * win7mac points to this beauty of a shy flower, taken with N9+macro-lens: https://dl.dropbox.com/lightbox/home/maemo-stuff/N9-macro and like me here if you dare ;) http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1361459#post1361459 | 22:28 | |
| psycho_oreos | pebkac haha.. s/es/e/ | 22:28 |
| psycho_oreos | *ahem* -> #harmattan ;) j/k | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Error (404 ) We can't find the page you're looking for. | 22:32 |
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| GogoPogo | hello everybody... quick question, does the Skype implementation within Maemo core mean there was an agreement between the community and Microsoft? If that's the case is there any document about it? | 22:58 |
| Sicelo | no | 22:59 |
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| Sicelo | maemo had skype long before it was acquired by M$ | 22:59 |
| Sicelo | als, skype parts of maemo were not provided by community | 23:00 |
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| GogoPogo | were they provided by Skype itself? | 23:00 |
| Sicelo | Nokia | 23:01 |
| win7mac | shit, sorry, correct link (I hope): https://www.dropbox.com/s/fl8au9zjdh1yguo/13070049_3x2_LQ.jpg | 23:02 |
| Sicelo | and you're more likely to get hit by a plane than see any of those docs GogoPogo. | 23:02 |
| win7mac | err... https://dl.dropbox.com/s/fl8au9zjdh1yguo/13070049_3x2_LQ.jpg | 23:03 |
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| GogoPogo | Sicelo: I got the idea. But it's still not very clear to me how much of maemo's core comes from the community and how much comes from Nokia.. Believing linux meant free community development I believed that an agreement with Skype or Microsoft would make quite not much sense.. | 23:05 |
| Sicelo | everything comes from Nokia. | 23:05 |
| GogoPogo | I'm not very linux-literate so it's better for me to ask the savvy | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | read your N900 manual. | 23:06 |
| win7mac | or this even: http://i.imgur.com/JbCKKWE.jpg | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | first pages | 23:06 |
| GogoPogo | Sicelo: thanks for the advise, hope asking didn't irk you | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | GogoPogo: N900 was not developed by community. | 23:06 |
| Sicelo | nop, not irked :P | 23:06 |
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| GogoPogo | advice* | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed | 23:07 |
| infobot | [closed] http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | GogoPogo: ^^^ | 23:07 |
| Sicelo | N900 is just great because it is almost standard enough linux (Debian).. but that's as far as it goes. | 23:08 |
| Sicelo | hence, the link DocScrutinizer05 just pointed you to | 23:08 |
| GogoPogo | thanks Doc, thanks Sicelo.. I guess the maemo.org wikis should be dumped for Evopedia | 23:09 |
| Sicelo | ? | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | huh? | 23:09 |
| GogoPogo | Evopedia, you know.. the application enabling you to read Wikipedia dumps | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, there been such plans several times | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I donno if anybody actually compöeted on them | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | completed | 23:10 |
| Lava_Croft | german keyboard layout-owned | 23:11 |
| GogoPogo | Lava_Croft: he's more likely to have pressed Alt+0246 | 23:11 |
| GogoPogo | :D | 23:11 |
| Lava_Croft | ;) | 23:11 |
| GogoPogo | anyway, DocScrutinizer05 is there a way to find out? | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pkg | 23:12 |
| infobot | i heard pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/ | 23:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we now can provide whatever raw and cooked dumps of wiki you'd need for such project, thanks to community now managing the infra | 23:12 |
| GogoPogo | that's wonderful | 23:13 |
| GogoPogo | I'd love to have Maemo wiki with my while I'm on the go... | 23:13 |
| GogoPogo | with me* | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure, a very sane rationale | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you *might* look into openmoko wikireader project, which did sth aiui similar to evopedia which I dun't know yet | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zecke did a huge job compressing complete wikipedia | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and re-rendering images to 4bit grayscale ;-) | 23:16 |
| GogoPogo | including images :O | 23:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I completely lost track of this project, but it's FOSS as well | 23:17 |
| GogoPogo | but how can Openmoko be compatible with maemo? | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not at all | 23:17 |
| Sicelo | heh | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but the code is pretty plain common c | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the core is platform agnostic I'd say | 23:18 |
| GogoPogo | I'm more interested in the dumps than in the app.. I already have Evopedia which works flawlessly within maemo's browser | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 23:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, then it should be simple | 23:19 |
| GogoPogo | So if you have dumps for wiki.maemo.org we can download them.. | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tell me what sort of dump you need, and how it#s supposed to get prepared | 23:19 |
| GogoPogo | ok, let me check inside my n900 | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's probably a howto somewhere on evopedia pages, eh? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wiki.m.o is mediawiki | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you might want to ask ashley about details and help to get the dump | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ashley is our wiki maintainer | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can facilitate | 23:22 |
| GogoPogo | I'm checking evopedia's website and it seems to be able to read wikipedia and wiktionary-like dumps only, | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, I got a not-too-recent "dump" of wiki on my box: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wiki/ | 23:24 |
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| FIQ | hi | 23:24 |
| FIQ | 4th power cycle, no issue @bindmounts so far | 23:24 |
| FIQ | (20:53:56) (FIQ) will look into the wording when back | 23:24 |
| FIQ | looked into backupmenu | 23:24 |
| FIQ | it never mentions /opt specifically, it calls the fat partition "MyDocs" (where it's mentioned, i.e. in fsck), and the /home partition "OptFS" | 23:25 |
| GogoPogo | that's a 706MB .xml, I guess there may be others way to open it if Evopedia failed.. | 23:25 |
| FIQ | and the root one "rootfs" | 23:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and o/ | 23:27 |
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| ashley | yes, I know, I've been goofing off a bit >.> I should come up with an upgrade plan, publish it, get folks to comment on it and go ahead with it by...the end of August or September or something like that | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: for now your expertise regarding mediawiki and evopedia would already help a lot | 23:33 |
| GogoPogo | agreed | 23:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc over here | 23:34 |
| GogoPogo | it would be really helpful | 23:34 |
| ashley | alright, what's up? | 23:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GogoPogo has a thing called evopedia running on his N900, and we all think it's a great plan to have wiki.m.o locally on device | 23:35 |
| GogoPogo | it's just Evopedia can read wikipedia and wiktionary-like dumps, is there a way to have mediawiki dumped the same way? | 23:35 |
| ashley | sure; there a script called dumpBackup.php in the wiki's maintenance/ directory (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:DumpBackup.php) that can be used to create a(n) .xml dump of the wiki (admittedly it's been a long while since I've had to use it) | 23:37 |
| GogoPogo | ashley: I see from the dumps provided by Evopedia that the dumps formats should be .idx and .dat | 23:38 |
| GogoPogo | the dumps files onto your device* | 23:38 |
| ashley | huh? no idea how such dumps are created, I'm aware only of MediaWiki's standard .xml dumps (generated with the script mentioned above) as well as SQL dumps | 23:39 |
| GogoPogo | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wiki/ | 23:40 |
| GogoPogo | wikimedia dumps are like this one right? | 23:40 |
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| ashley | Wikimedia Foundation (the instance hosting Wikipedia etc.) offers various database dumps (http://dumps.wikimedia.org/), but the standard MW dump format is .xml; I have no idea what could be used to create .idx/.dat files and those definitely are not MediaWiki standard DB dump formats (also, MediaWiki != Wikimedia, MW is the software and Wikimedia is the instance hosting Wikipedia) | 23:41 |
| GogoPogo | I think a .xml dump file is just fine too, there must be more than one way to open and browse a .xml file on maemo.. I just believe Evopedia is a very popular application for maemo users and it would make things easier | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet as soon as you get more info about data structure of .idx and .dat, it can get converted from xml to those formats | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously .idx is an index file and .dat is the database file | 23:45 |
| GogoPogo | yes, and there's a metadata.txt file indexing the .idx files too | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | find the howto page on evopedia homesite | 23:46 |
| GogoPogo | ok | 23:46 |
| ashley | DocScrutinizer05: also, it's probably worth noting that the supermajority of "files" at http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wiki/files/ are broken -- the files with a filesize of 8.6K are actually HTML pages (MediaWiki's file description pages instead of the actual images) | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there jas to be some instruction how to create those .idx and .dat | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ashley: DAMN! | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't do that download | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks for letting me know | 23:47 |
| ashley | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wiki/files/Wm-niels%20breet.png for example is a HTML dump of Special:FilePath and I guess so are the others with the same size | 23:47 |
| ashley | but for example http://maemo.cloud-7.de/wiki/files/Wazapp-group-create.png seems to be OK | 23:47 |
| ashley | no idea what method's been used to dump the files, but obviously it wasn't the ideal one :-/ | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sth went wrong with the job that downloaded that stuff. it been an incredible manual work | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some guys were creating a bashscript from special:allpages and special:files or twhatever | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's from a time where we had no access to the wiki on an administrative level | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so any sed command or shellscript command in the created bashscript could have blown chunks on whatever particular property of the filename or file to download | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, we now have direct access to wiki db | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so just you guys tell techstaff what you want to get done, and we do it for you - just don't come and ask for pink pony or "I want a .dat file, nfc how you create that" | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | GogoPogo: do you think you can spot the documentation/howto on evopedia? | 23:55 |
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| GogoPogo | there's none, only downloaded the client to contribute to dumps and see what I can make out of it | 23:56 |
| GogoPogo | but I found other useful info elsewhere | 23:56 |
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| GogoPogo | wikitravel.org has an offline reader option and on its explaination article Evopedia is listed as one of the target formats. Here's what they say about it: | 23:57 |
| GogoPogo | Evopedia http://evopedia.info/ Free open source offline dump reader and browser for MediaWiki wikis using devices default web browser to display results. Target devices include Linux tablets and smartphones using Nokia Maemo OS, OpenMoko SHR, and devices and computers running Ubuntu and Arch Linux distros. Evopedia requires processed dumps available at their website or custom databases which... | 23:57 |
| GogoPogo | ...can be made with free tools | 23:57 |
| GogoPogo | so it says MediaWiki is supported by Evopedia but they're the only ones to say so | 23:57 |
| GogoPogo | so I went and check here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Data_dumps | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-18.log.html#t2010-10-18T19:34:40 | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Linux tablets and smartphones using Nokia Maemo OS, OpenMoko SHR -- \o/ :-D | 23:59 |
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