IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2013-07-07

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DrathirDocScrutinizer51: thanks, thats looks stay only graphical bell...02:58
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: check bash manual, there might be a way to assign a command to ^G02:59
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: ok thanks i check that03:02
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Drathirbind -x '"^G":"playsound /usr/share/sounds/chat-msg_in_bg_3.wav"' but dont really working...03:22
Maceri don't see the directory it says to place the xml03:23
* Drathir very like avidemux...03:24
Maceri don't understand where i am supposed to put this xml03:24
Macerthe directory in the maemo wiki isn't there03:24
Luke-JrDrathir: dead03:28
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Macerthe handbrake presets don't work either03:30
Macerand i don't think this ancient xml on the wiki works03:30
Macersince it seems to use a method that isn't consistent with avidemux03:31
MacerIn Windows: put this file in Application Data/avidemux/x264/03:31
Maceri'm not seeing the dire03:32
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Macerblah i give up03:40
Maceri'll just remove avidemux and try to make a base profile with handbrake for windows03:41
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: maybe that only works when you *type* ^G, but not when a program *prints* ^G03:54
DocScrutinizer05       bell-style (audible)03:56
DocScrutinizer05              Controls  what  happens  when readline wants to ring the terminal bell.  If set to none, readline never rings the bell.  If set to visible, readline uses a visible bell if03:56
DocScrutinizer05              one is available.  If set to audible, readline attempts to ring the terminal's bell.03:56
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DrathirMacer: yoy care about file size?04:17
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Drathiranyway should work with default avc but adjust a video size...04:20
Macernot really heh04:27
Macerthat's what i just did04:27
Maceri am sure i can tweak it to make the files smaller04:28
Macerbut i managed to get a good video :) and save the preset04:28
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Macerin handbrake04:30
Maceri still would rather use tablet-encode tho. it manages to give me 60fps04:30
Maceron 1 core :) handbrake is giving me 70fps with 404:30
Macergo figure04:30
DocScrutinizer05Name: module-x11-bell04:35
DocScrutinizer05Argument: display=:0 sample=bell.ogg04:35
DocScrutinizer05Usage counter: n/a04:35
DocScrutinizer05Properties:04:35 = "Lennart Poettering"04:35
DocScrutinizer05module.description = "X11 bell interceptor"04:35
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: pactl upload04:35
DocScrutinizer05not tested04:35
DocScrutinizer05alas it seems maemo PA is missing module-x11-bell04:40
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DocScrutinizer05there's /usr/bin/maemo-xinput-sounds running, but it's unclear to me what exactly it does. Might do touchscreen clicks and keybd clicks, probably no bell04:48
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DocScrutinizer05anyway pactl list  can give you nausea05:07
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Maceri tried sending a song with fmms05:41
Macerdidn't seem to turn out so well :)05:42
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SpeedEvil'we are calling you as you have breached your credit card limit and owe us $878395 for sending 3.5 million SMSs.05:59
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MacerSpeedEvil: lol06:09
Maceri can see it now... doors getting kicked in for massive mms song distribution06:09
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Macerhm. i'm goign to test out this handbrake thing a few more times and try to export it so someone can put it on the wiki to replace the ancient plist that is on there now06:10
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Maceralthough for whatever reason i can only get handbrake to do 848x48006:10
Macerit doesn't seem to want to use 854.. i'm sure you can force it but i doubt those 11 pixels matter much :)06:10
Macerer... 606:10
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Macercould be due to cropping too but who knows. you would think that the default video player could at least stretch :)06:11
RST38hThe Adam generates a surge of electromagnetic energy on startup, which can erase the contents of any removable media left in or near the drive.06:14
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GI_JackSpeedEvil, is it possible to send that many mms>06:20
GI_Jackor sms even06:20
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GI_Jackmacer - I've had better luck with transmageddon06:21
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MacerGI_Jack: i would rather use the tablet-encode mencoder wrapper06:30
Macerbut sometimes the subs and audio tracks get a little messed up especially with anime heh06:30
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DocScrutinizer05RST38h: what?06:53
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DrathirMacer: propabbly try to keep aspect ratio... oh if you want small files you need avc use in avidemux...11:43
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DrathirDocScrutinizer05: where you find that module-x11-bel in pactl -list i dont see them.11:51
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DrCodeany one using megan power battery, I am thinking to buy it12:00
DrCodehi dockane12:00
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MacerDrathir: handbrake made them small enough12:10
Macerturned 500MB files into 100MB12:10
Macerthats good enough. i have a 32GB sd in my n90012:11
Maceri managed to get some awesome looking files going12:11
Macerat a decent size so im happy. the preset actually changes the res too which handbrake was a pain at doing12:11
Macerim sure i can get them to look even better at the expense of time12:12
Macerwow what's up with lol12:13
Macerit's taking like 20mins to download 125K heh12:13
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: might help as well, as usually xterm or console is responsible to play sound:
DocScrutinizer05inz: you know any deatl about beep/bell sound?12:15
DocScrutinizer05detail even12:17
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DocScrutinizer05the classical way to create a beep sound is afaik via IOCTRL to /dev/console:
DrCodeI am thinking to order mugen power for n900 , I know it come from honkkong and it take long time shipping12:23
DrCodeany one using it?12:23
DocScrutinizer05a few do12:23
DocScrutinizer05or did12:23
* win7mac wonders if this is a good solution for audio meetings:
DrCodewin7mac, openmeeting or bbb12:24
DrCodeboth are good, bbb have also html5 support12:24
DrCodebut openmeeting have support more them 100 users in same time12:25
DrCodeit depend what you need12:25
win7macno clue a bigbluebutton12:25
DrCodesearch in google , both are opensource12:25
DrCodeI have investigate both , and I am using bbb12:26
DrCodework great12:26
DrCodeopenmeeting have more secure then bbb, you can manage rooms and so, in bbb its modrator and user12:26
DrCodeI manage to connect bbb to ldap server12:27
win7macWe need a service for HiFo-meetings on a regular basis, preferrably available (through browser) from our N9xxs12:27
DrCodehow money users?12:27
DrCodewin7mac, do u have gtalk or messanger12:28
DrCodei would like to help12:28
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DrCodeor privet chat , its also ok12:28
win7macwell, board is 7, if council joins too then it'd be 12 peeps12:28
win7macboard is 7 at max12:29
DrCodego with bbb12:29
DrCodefor 12 users12:29
DrCodefor small meeting bbb will do great job12:29
win7macI don't use gtalk or messanger. we need audio12:30
DrCodeyou can also record meetings and stream them like in youtube12:30
DrCodebbb support both audio, video, text chat12:30
win7macsounds good, am looking into BBB...12:30
DrCodewin7mac, I meant to chat in privat with you12:31
DrCodesorry about my bad english12:31
DrCodeDocScrutinizer05, I want to buy it (mugen power) but its expensive12:31
DrCodeis it worth this price or there are alternatives?12:32
win7macMy question is also to techstaff if this is desireable and doable12:32
win7macto have it self-hosted12:32
win7macImportant is that it works on N900 and N9 for max. reach12:33
DrCodeU mean the client?12:34
DrCodeif n900 support flash , it will work12:34
DrCodebbb and openmeeting have flash client12:34
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DrCodebbb has also html5 client12:34
DrCodeflash or html512:34
DrCodebtw: n900 have support for html5?12:35
win7macflash is a problem on N9, latest version is 10.112:35
win7macwhich is totally outdated12:35
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sixwheeledbeastwin7mac: what about N900 flash? Last proper version is 912:42
sixwheeledbeastroll along html5 and supporting browsers...12:43
win7macfor N900 there's a flash-tweak:
DrCodeI think it will work win7mac12:45
DrCodeI found this:12:45
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sixwheeledbeastnote I said 'proper version' ;)12:47
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DrCodesixwheeledbeast, n900 have support for html5?12:48
sixwheeledbeastnot fully, but it depends on the browser anyway.12:48
sixwheeledbeastAlopex is the best so far.12:49
sixwheeledbeastmost do html5 but not html5 video12:49
DrCodeI see12:50
DrCodeI am thinking to buy mugen power for n900, is it worth this price? is there other alternarnive?12:50
win7macwhat about html5 on N9, which browser can handle it?12:51
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sixwheeledbeastI found the link :)12:53
win7macJust saw that Firefox for N9 supports Opus audio codec in html512:55
win7macDocScrutinizer05, what do you think about the idea of self-hosted web conferencing?12:57
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DocScrutinizer05I don't like the idea of audio web connferences13:05
win7macMe too, but it's mandatory for HiFo-meetings13:06
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sixwheeledbeastonly for agreement of details/decisions I believe, meeting can be IRC for somethings.13:10
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: thanks a lot i goin to read that links...13:11
win7macIt could be usefull for other use cases too. openmeetings features a calendar too13:11
win7macI'd just prefer it over any other external, proprietory web-service13:13
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DrathirMacer: yes but handbrake quality is much worse than avidemux in that same size...13:14
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DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-04 23:14:22] <DocScrutinizer05> mugen is bulky, costly, and not even pulling the sausage off your hotdog13:22
DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-04 23:14:51] <DocScrutinizer05> for special needs it might be right solution13:23
DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-04 23:00:51] <DocScrutinizer05> on a less facetious note, I can't give any recommendation without info that allows to evaluate whether e.g. mugen will even help on what you want to accomplish13:23
DocScrutinizer05[2013-07-04 23:03:15] <DocScrutinizer05> when you want 24h of maemo-hotspot operation, mugen will hardly be the right choice. When you want to do geocaching, then probably an external powerpack is a poor advice13:23
Drathirwin7mac: looks like ts server :p13:28
win7macts server?13:29
Drathirwin7mac: teamspeak13:31
win7macah, thanks. But that does not work on N9xx :(13:33
DocScrutinizer05why not?13:34
Drathirinteresting if is any plugin to pidgin connected with ts...13:34
Drathirbut good idea i check if ts is avaible for alarm...13:34
Drathirand how it works throught chroot13:36
Drathirin maemo mumble is avaible if good see13:37
Drathirmumble is similar alternative to teamspeak13:40
Drathirserver i think can be easly run on one of maemo server...13:41
DocScrutinizer05anyway I guess every maemo devel is free to port and build TS-client, no?13:41
DocScrutinizer05TS-server can run anywhere13:42
Drathiryes i think por oft will be good too...13:42
DocScrutinizer05por oft?13:42
Drathirbut can be something why also ts isnt avaible on alarm :/13:42
Drathirport of* letters running im sorry...13:43
DocScrutinizer05well, that's maybe intriguing but not really any new13:45
DocScrutinizer05there been more useful concepts to locate WiFi clients in buildings on sub-meter precision, using modified "normal" accesspoints13:46
Drathirbut there isnt needed 3 recivers of signal to calculate vailid data?13:49
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Drathirchecking strehght of signal and time answer of device should give not good calculated values i think...13:53
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DocScrutinizer05yes, this indoor WiFi localization works with multiple AP that precisely evaluate signal travel time from WiFi client to AP13:57
SpeedEvilIn principle, one signal may give you information.13:59
DocScrutinizer05there are also other concepts that use reflections and interferences13:59
SpeedEvilThis is ...13:59
SpeedEvilReflections and multipath contain information too. One signal source, and one reciever can't ideally be located. But - once you move outside of the ideal world with no objects, and reflections, it's not inconcievable something can be done.14:00
SpeedEvilFor example, bounces off other objects effectively add other 'receivers'.14:00
DocScrutinizer05basically the "fingerprint" method14:01
SpeedEvilAnd obstructions do similar - in principle determinable things.14:01
SpeedEvilIt's basically then the fun question of - can you make this a functional location system, not a laboratory curiosity'.14:01
DocScrutinizer05for GSM I was a little fuzzy mixing both concepts in my GSM-positioning_revisited post14:01
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SpeedEvilIn principle, 60GHz APs may make this even easier. As multi-antenna synthetic apatrure antennas become smaller.14:03
SpeedEvilBut this is some time away.14:03
DocScrutinizer05In first post I elaborated a bit about fingerprint, while in follow-up post I focused on signal-delay methos14:05
win7macerr, is this related to audio confernce?14:06
SpeedEvilWell - not directly14:07
SpeedEvilIt is sort-of-related to echo cancelling which is important for audio conferencing.14:07
SpeedEvilAnd, indeed, audio positioning is another possible technology14:08
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Drathirand this also should works with waves secured cages rooms if someone can get network acces to inside the room,and when from outside cant track with this method thats change...14:18
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* DocScrutinizer05 still feels ignored on this deemed brilliant contribution to GSM based positioning done in 200814:19
DocScrutinizer05(audio postioning) I already suggested that for SIRI14:19
DocScrutinizer05(... the apple thing)14:20
DocScrutinizer05there's a friggin LOT you can do with a huge number of microphones distributed across an area14:20
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Drathir*from crazy/stupid ideas* audio positioning will be good in case with phone loud speaker to auto adjust mic sensivity...14:22
DocScrutinizer05with as little as 5..10 mics in an area of 500..1000^2 meter^m, you can not only do time correlation of non-realtime signals of those 10 mics, you also can build a audio-based environment image of the whole scene, by locating all other sound sources in relation to all the mics14:23
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: well, mic sensitivity is rather precisely known, my usecase for this is to adjust speaker volume according to environment noise14:24
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DocScrutinizer05another patent pending I never seen implemented in any phone14:25
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DrathirDocScrutinizer05: that will be good with connection of city cams to trscking a car accidents faster i think and also detect a crines faster with localisation...14:25
DocScrutinizer05e.g for ringtone that is hush in a silent environment but max volume in noisy environment14:25
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DrathirDocScrutinizer05: yes thats also will be great idea...14:26
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: yes, absolutely feasible14:26
Drathiranyway if good remember in one episode of nscsi they tracking wit mic very sensitive and little diversion a sniper location when shut they calculate where sound come and catch the shuter - that can be fiction only but think its is possible to implement in real world...14:29
Drathirbad side is that goverment can easier listen anything what need :p14:30
SpeedEvilCSI is basically fiction.14:30
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SpeedEvilBut audio detection of shots are real.14:30
SpeedEvilAnd location.14:30
DrathirSpeedEvil: the best for me is eureka is mostly a fiction but a lot of things and teories used in that are true...14:31
DocScrutinizer05(NCSI) yes, and that was one of the few absolutely (scientifically) correct details in this series14:31
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DocScrutinizer05I don't agree on EUREKA though14:33
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: yes misstype correct is NCIS14:33
DocScrutinizer05not a single detail I seen in this series been based on anything realistic14:33
DocScrutinizer05not even faintly14:34
Drathirbozon pice and bridge ainstein rozen if good remember theory in real life is the same...14:34
win7macmumble seems an option, I found a client for N900, but not for N9 though. Could someone port it?:
Drathirwin7mac: for n900 is inside repo, n9 using new ones?14:36
* DocScrutinizer05 has a funny idea for an iPhone and/or android app: playback of live audio via speakers with parametric centrally controlled delay (ms-range up to some seconds) plus equalizer. In a scene like e.g a football stadium this might create an awesome versatile audio playback machine with very unique properties14:36
win7macDrathir, I have no clue14:37
DocScrutinizer05iPhone/android due to number of devices out in the wild / out in a football stadium14:37
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: yea live streming at phone with change of camera angle and zoom...14:37
DocScrutinizer05you probably could create multiple hotspots with a dedicated audio signal audible only on this 2*2m area14:38
DocScrutinizer05while the "speakers" (iPhones) are all more than 50m away from that hotspot14:39
DocScrutinizer05WOW, what a fiction14:40
win7macyou probably could help find a solution for our real life problems too :p14:40
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DocScrutinizer05walk thru a field of a few thousand speakers that seemings only emit a hush white noise signal, and in one precise location you suddenly hear a very clear and loud voice or other meaningful audio, while 10m further you get yet another equally loud and crisp other audio signal14:41
Drathiralso nanobots technology in theory also would ba a possible to make, in now can programming a cells to attack only cancer changed cels but this is a experimental methods... that eureka have more things that are rally close real life things r correct with real life one theory about something... but strictly is a sf serial...14:41
DocScrutinizer05win7mac: I don't see any recent real life problems14:42
win7macwe still need a solution for our audio-meetings14:43
Drathiranyway wifi nework with very useful to FEMA ? with critical situations i think... is most decentralised high avaible site on the planet...14:43
Drathirwith = can be *14:44
win7maca long-term solution and one for next meeting ~next week14:44
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DocScrutinizer05(massive multi speaker audio system, MMSAS:) for that app I mentioned above, you'd probably want to receive and delay&EQ&mix multiple RTP streams, one for each audio signal hotspot14:45
DocScrutinizer05or you'd need one dedicated RTP stream for each speaker/phone14:46
DocScrutinizer05with a 32kbps (half of ISDN) a single beefy server still could stream up to 1000 or 2000 such RTP clients14:47
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Drathirbut in theory if anny attack happend the main satelities and other communications sources should be on the target but isnt possible to shut off all avaible wifi routers exclude emp, but emp also have a area only usage...14:49
DocScrutinizer05smart algos to dither the particular RTP streams so for each hotspot the distortions of the single onbe of 1000s of speakers would get leveled out by the other 999, could help to reduce bandwidth needs even further14:49
Drathiryea with corection of position that system could be better than sorruond on stadium, but first bateries in phones should evolued...14:50
DocScrutinizer05but you got a point there, each phone needs a very precise idea about own position in relation to other phones and to scene14:51
DocScrutinizer05so we probably need a realtime calibration means as well14:51
Drathirthat be really better than few big sound speakers when thousen of small ones was using with synchronised way with correction of where sound placed...14:52
Drathirandecologic way stadium will be using a less of power :p14:52
DocScrutinizer05which isn't that hard to implement, since it's irrelevant when a single phone stops playback for a 5s and listens with own mic to environment, which gives precise location according to previous idea of audio positioning :-D14:53
DocScrutinizer05dman, such a system is a *dream* to play with14:54
DocScrutinizer05cloud computing looks like stone age against it14:54
Drathirbut interesting for me is that battery evolue is stopping by *big daddy* or we real dont have any technologic possibilities to improve a battery life time...14:55
DocScrutinizer05next step in battery technology will come from nano technology probably14:56
DocScrutinizer05carbon nanotubes etc14:56
Drathiryes cloud have a big power and i think its a future of all... not one place but decentralised data with strong encryption to specified device sending of data...14:56
DocScrutinizer05in battery all is about active surface of anodes14:56
DocScrutinizer05and about ion transport14:57
DocScrutinizer05both might massively improve by using nanotubes, buckyballs, etc14:58
SpeedEvilThat's discharge capacity.14:58
SpeedEvilWhich is already good enough.14:58
Drathirsadly and iraccionally most clean energy will be forom atomic or hydra source...14:58
SpeedEvilYou can buy li-ion rated for 40C discharge14:58
SpeedEvilThe next revolution is the one that makes batteries cheaper.14:59
DocScrutinizer05sure, but you can't make anode active material 3 times thicker and get 3 times the capacity14:59
rikaneeSpeedEvil: how cheap, exactly?14:59
SpeedEvilYou cannot buy a battery that will store more than its purchase price in normal electicity14:59
rikaneeah, energy density?14:59
Drathirchina ones are cheap , but noone guarantire that dont explode you when charging them... :p15:00
SpeedEvilIf that changed - so that the integrated price / (charge * cycle count ) was a fifth of grid electricity - then disconnecting from the grid would be feasible for a _large_ number of people.15:00
SpeedEvilIt needs of the order of a tenfold drop to make practical in sunny places.15:01
Drathiranyway sadly sunenergy is still so badly using to charging :/15:01
DocScrutinizer05there are some exotic battery chemistry that have better joule/buck on large scale, like e.g sulfur battery. Alas sulfur battery needs ~400°C operating temp iirc15:01
rikaneeDocScrutinizer05: 400C internal temp, or ambient?15:02
DocScrutinizer05interbal of course ;-P15:02
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DocScrutinizer05"operating temperatures of 300 to 350 °C"  sorry I was 100..50° off15:04
Drathiratomic source should be the best one i think, but should have a very stable and non distroyable box to contain that battery...15:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer05: Well - not quite. There have been recent advances in wierd sodium-sulphur  batteries at room temperature.15:04
SpeedEvil - aha15:06
SpeedEvilinitial capacity was 700 mA h g-1 and coulombic15:07
SpeedEvileffeciency was more than 95%.'15:07
Drathirthat knnd atomic battery in theory dont need be exchange throught years and if amount of place used for battery will be possibly small that can be universal source of power... but now is more possible solar+wireless energy ones...15:09
SpeedEvilDrathir: This is never going to happen until all wars are eliminated, and all people are nice.15:09
Drathiri read sonething in china or japan they made a wireless power distributon source and working...15:09
SpeedEvilRadioisotope power sources are pretty much inherently very dangerous if you disperse them.15:10
Drathirbut for now for little range of use that...15:10
DocScrutinizer05>>In March 2011, Sumitomo Electric Industries and Kyoto University announced that they had developed a low temperature molten sodium ion battery that can output power at temperatures under 100 °C. The batteries would have double the energy density of Li-ion and considerably lower cost. Sumitomo Electric Industry CEO Masayoshi Matsumoto indicated that the company aimed to begin production in 2015. Initial applications would be buildings15:15
DrathirSpeedEvil: yes but strange to say that is most clean source of energy without any accidents the ime of work is much more than nedded, and main problem is ho to make it works in small box and how to secure that box to not be able to destroy it in any kind of way... solar+wireles also looks clean but is something needed to make the energy in second and in first source is shared from sun avaibility...15:15
DocScrutinizer05and buses.<<15:15
SpeedEvilDrathir: There are basically no 'indestructable' boxes possible.15:15
SpeedEvilDrathir: Other than casually deterring people without tools.15:16
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SpeedEvilDrathir: Or delaying an attack for a few moments while security can stop the attacker.15:16
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: but question is what will be a size of that hot batteries, sadly maybe need to place for get out the warming temperature?15:16
SpeedEvilDrathir: If the battery is a cubic meter - you don't care about the time to warm it - you simply wrap it in insulation so it stays warm.15:17
DocScrutinizer05vacuum (dewar) isolation15:17
Drathiroh in that way...15:17
* SpeedEvil almost bought a 200l dewar on ebay.15:18
SpeedEvilI'm sorry I diddn't in a way.15:18
SpeedEvilIt'd have made an excellent hot-water cylinder.15:18
DocScrutinizer05but those dewar containments are kinda pita to handle15:18
SpeedEvilIn principle, yes.15:19
DocScrutinizer05there are vacuumized silica sealed isolation plates for buildings nowadays15:19
SpeedEvilWhich are annoyingly expensive - also small ones suck - the edge leak is quite significant.15:20
DocScrutinizer05allegedly they keep vacuum for at least 10 years15:20
SpeedEvilIn some places they are worth it - simply as if you have 100m^2 of wall, and you can make the walls 10cm thinner - bingo - 10m^2 of extra space that you can sell.15:21
DocScrutinizer05well, nothing an additional 20cm of polystyrene foam couldn't realistically solve15:21
SpeedEvilAnd in some places land prices make that worth it.15:21
DocScrutinizer05in a car or bus I think dewar/vacuum is also a great choice, due to volume15:22
DocScrutinizer05for a hot water storage inhouse though...15:22
SpeedEvilWith insulation in houses - especially for high temperature stuff - you run into fundamental limits.15:23
SpeedEvilIf you have an isotropic insulator, then if you put more than about a couple of diameters of insulation on a pipe - you're not going to get any improvement15:23
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's an isotropic isolator15:24
DocScrutinizer05but I guess I see what you say15:25
DocScrutinizer05tmperature gradient in isolator vs surface15:25
DocScrutinizer05makes thick isolation of tubes a futile effort15:25
SpeedEvilAn insulator that is the same in all directions15:25
SpeedEvilSame with insulation of hot water tanks.15:25
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, rather get a perfect ball as containment15:26
DocScrutinizer05to minimize surface15:26
DocScrutinizer05a cube might be almost as good15:27
SpeedEvilEven then - you're faced with a pretty stark limit if you need to store - say - 10l of water.15:27
SpeedEvilIt's admittedly not so bad for 100l.15:27
DocScrutinizer05only ratiometric though, the absolute loss still is higher15:29
DocScrutinizer05IOW it doesn't make sense to store 100L when you only need 1015:30
DocScrutinizer05err right?15:30
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DocScrutinizer05of course right15:30
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's more efficient: one 100L ball or 10 * 10L balls, given you "empty/fill" them one after the other completely, rather than taking 10% out of each15:32
DocScrutinizer05a tower of 10 10L balls might be more economic if you usually have a "filling" of 50%, I guess. Compared to one large ball with a hot upper and a cold lower half that are not isolated against each other15:35
DocScrutinizer05getting worse for less filling, on 10% fill it becomes obvious15:37
SpeedEvilStoring 100l loses more heat than 10l. But not that much more heat.15:38
DocScrutinizer05a battery of 20 usual 10L warm water boilers that only 1 or 2 of them are hot beats your dewar 200L hands down15:38
SpeedEvilProportionately - the 10l container loses a _lot_ more heat faster.15:38
SpeedEvilAnd off to the garden to finish making a fruit-cage before the birds eat all my blackcurrants15:40
DocScrutinizer05hey! hurry15:40
Lava_Croftthe strawberries too!15:41
DocScrutinizer05and don't forget my 2013-raspberry marmelade please! :-D15:41
DocScrutinizer05best raspberry marmelade I ever had15:41
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SpeedEvilNo raspberries this year16:41
SpeedEvilVirus issues - I pulled them, and will be replanting next year.16:41
* ShadowJK 's hotwater tank is some 300l16:47
ShapeshifterAny alternatives to modest that are any better?16:52
ShapeshifterWith large inboxes, modest is eating up my battery and for a few days now I can't access gmail accounts anymore (wrong user name or password)16:52
Lava_CroftI think the only alternative would be webmail or that Claws port16:53
Lava_Croftcant really tell you how good or bad it is though16:55
ShapeshifterI tried claws a while ago and it was pretty shit. not well optimized for mobile use16:55
Lava_Crofti guess you are out of luck then16:56
Lava_Croftbut not sure16:56
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Shapeshifterawe man... I don't want either an android nor a windows phone but the n900 is getting increasingly annoying to use every day16:56
Lava_Croftyeah, ive even gone as far as overclocking to make it bearable16:57
Lava_Croftand buying an n9 thats now mostly unused16:58
Lava_Croftim just silly and i keep hoping for some jolla thing16:58
Lava_Croftso far i can manage fine with n900 and n916:58
DocScrutinizer05insider secret tip: reflash completely, incl your user data. Will work wonders for speed16:59
ShapeshifterHow far is jolla? Last I checked they only had some personalization thing going on with interchangeable covers. totally irrelevant17:00
Lava_Croftwell, that apparently is the start17:00
Lava_Croftit seems its up to jolla and 3rd parties to make me a HW keyboard other halgf17:00
Lava_Croftand proper landscape support17:00
DocScrutinizer05and for mail, you shouldn't be surprised when poor little N900 gets kinbda exhausted when you try to manage an imap account with zillions of mails on it17:01
Lava_Croftbut after two maemo devices that got zero support apart from replacing broken devices, im a bit weary17:01
Lava_Croftnot really wanting to get a 3rd device that ends up being unsupported17:01
Lava_Croftunsupported by the company that produced it, of course17:01
Lava_Croftcommunity is special :)17:01
DocScrutinizer05wtf means "unsupported"?17:02
ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer05: any ensible mobile client caches and retrieves only a reasonable amount of mails. with indexing, pretty much any size database can be managed by arbitrarily weak devices. modest is simply quite shit17:02
DocScrutinizer05when the bricklayers leave your newly built house after it finally got finished, do you consider your house "unsupported"?17:03
DocScrutinizer05Shapeshifter: reality proves you false17:03
DocScrutinizer05not even my desktop mailer can handle really huge amounts of mail17:04
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* Drathir <3 strawberries... mmmmm....17:05
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Venemo_N9hey guys17:08
DrathirLava_Croft: BB dont forget about user who want hw kb...17:08
DocScrutinizer05and on the initial topic of N900/fremantle getting slow: /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger/el-v1.db growing to insane size is a notorious problem for device speed17:09
DocScrutinizer05if that db is size>1MB you for sure have a problem17:10
DrathirDocScrutinizer05: can handle but performance of fast using it will be poor database search take a time...17:10
DocScrutinizer05hey Venemo_N917:11
Venemo_N9what is the way to deal with an N900 with a broken USB port? my brother successfully broke my old N900 :(17:12
infobothmm... usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)17:12
win7macVenemo_N9, you're the dev of IRC chatter?17:14
Venemo_N9win7mac, indeed I am :)17:14
GeneralAntilles(How much for a BB10 port?)17:15
Venemo_N9I wanted to do it17:16
Venemo_N9I don't have a BB10 device, that's the thing17:16
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Venemo_N9and now BB said they won't update the playbook either17:17
Venemo_N9GeneralAntilles, that being said, I could do it given some free time :)17:18
win7macVenemo_N9, I use IRC chatter and have a bouncer for 3 channels. On startup/playback the app hangs and asks to be closed. Usually, when I hit no it works, but not always...17:19
DrathirGeneralAntilles: BB isnt cheap but warrianty is if nothing changed great... also when you buy you sell with good price add little money and hew new one higher model...17:19
Venemo_N9win7mac, I'd appreciate if you could give me details in email17:20
Drathirhew = have*17:20
win7macHave you set a timeout for app response - if so please allow more time to load playback17:20
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Venemo_N9win7mac, I didn't17:20
Venemo_N9win7mac, but as I said, if you give me some details in email, I'd gladly look into it17:21
win7macAn error msg appears: "the app is not responding, would you like to close it?"17:21
win7macbasically, that's it17:22
Venemo_N9that's coming from the operating system17:22
Venemo_N9the question is, what are you doing with the app when that message appears?17:22
Drathirwin7mac: that show without touching a screen?17:22
win7macDrathir, yes, that show without touching a screen17:23
win7macVenemo_N9, I simply open IRC chatter and assumingly during loading of playback it hangs17:24
win7mac... and the error msg appears17:24
Venemo_N9what is 'playback'?17:24
Drathiroh that worse, because i show that most of the apps with high using of ram can do this pressing multiple times on screen in app or pressing fast fews times on close button...17:24
win7macVenemo_N9, a bouncer to save the chat while you're offline. It loads to client when opening that17:25
Drathirif that make it without any accion looks like high resource usage system reaction on...17:25
Drathirwin7mac: maybe huge amount of data trying to load to ram?17:26
Venemo_N9win7mac, hm, I understand17:26
Venemo_N9win7mac, which version are you using?17:27
DocScrutinizer05Venemo_N9: ZNC playback17:27
Venemo_N9DocScrutinizer05, yeah I get it17:27
DocScrutinizer05Venemo_N9: basically just usual IRC traffic, though high load17:28
win7macVenemo_N9, I'm using 0.3.217:28
Drathirim not sure maybe im wrong but maybe good idea will be to store bufer on disk and load only part of them ?17:28
DocScrutinizer05Drathir: that's not how it works17:28
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Venemo_N9I probably know what the problem is, then17:29
win7mac...meaning you can fix it?17:29
DocScrutinizer05your event loop doesn't service whatever OS watchdog, as long as inbound IP packages pile up17:29
DocScrutinizer05also ZNC might use some throttling of buffer playback I guess17:30
Venemo_N9possibly the problem is that the GUI becomes non-responsive because of the high load17:30
win7macthat's what I think17:31
Venemo_N9the app was not designed with receiving too many messages at once, so it tries to update the GUI upon every sigle message17:31
GeneralAntillesVenemo_N9, I'm desperate for a decent IRC client.17:31
DocScrutinizer05actually I think there must be some throttling already, since it was insane to blast out IRC posts at max speed of a i5 system17:31
Venemo_N9GeneralAntilles, thanks for saying that mine is decent :)17:32
DocScrutinizer05via a connection that's prone to pkg-loss17:32
GeneralAntillesVenemo_N9, I really like it.17:32
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Venemo_N9GeneralAntilles, would you like to see it in cascades or would it be fine with a custom UI?17:32
win7macI like it too since it's the only available for N9... :p17:33
DocScrutinizer05maybe you want to ask in #znc about the issue17:33
GeneralAntillesForced to use a Yaaic "port"17:33
GeneralAntillesVenemo_N9, Cascades would be /nice/, but custom UI doesn't bother me.17:33
GeneralAntillesMight be a good excuse for me to figure out Cascades later if I have a project I can play with it for.17:33
Venemo_N9GeneralAntilles, the thing is that it's written with meego components but now I also have a custom Qt5 gui in the works17:34
Venemo_N9so that would be the easiest to use on BB1017:34
win7macI already limited the playback to only bounce the last 500 lines/per channel17:35
win7macthat helped a bit (was 2000)17:36
Venemo_N9win7mac, I'll look at it tomorrow17:36
Venemo_N9right now I don't have a computer17:36
win7macgreat, many thanks Venemo_N917:36
GeneralAntillesIsn't scrollback limited to 300 lines?17:38
jon_yirc client?17:38
jon_ytry irssi?17:38
win7macVenemo_N9, while your at it, sometimes IRC chatter does not reconnect to server after powersaving mode kicks in. I then have to close and restart it17:39
win7macjon_y, IRC client for N9... irssi is fremantle only17:41
jon_ywell, you could build it yourself17:42
Lava_Croftrun irssi remotely17:42
Lava_Croftlogin over ssh17:42
jon_ythat works too17:43
jon_yssh + screen17:43
Lava_Croftmosh works too i guess17:43
Lava_Croftthat works better over iffy connections, for some17:43
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jon_ystill, key bindings are funny on a N9 glass screen17:43
Lava_Croftto be honest, i was surprised at how well meego term works though17:44
jon_yI keep my N900, thanks :)17:44
Lava_Crofti was in for a really shitty ride17:44
Lava_Croftbut it turns out it works well, given no HW keyb17:44
jon_yiirc there was some custom terminal emulator17:44
Lava_CroftMesInput lets you switch keyboard layouts with a swipe, so that is handy too17:44
Lava_Croftyeah, but that one isnt as smooth as meego term17:45
Lava_Croftits qml based17:45
jon_ysupposedly better, keyboard doesn't take half the screen17:45
Lava_Croftand theres a fork of meegoterm that doesnt really anything i use17:45
Lava_Croftyeah, keyboard is transparent on that one17:45
Lava_Croftbut keyboard also doesnt always respond well17:45
Lava_Croftwhich is far more annoying than having a tiny screen17:45
jon_ywhich one has the transparent keyboard?17:45
win7macjon_y, well, I can't build anything myself, coding-wise...17:46
Lava_CroftFingerTerm is the qml one with a nice looking transparent keyboard17:46
jon_ywin7mac: perl and glib-217:46
jon_yLava_Croft: ok, your recommendation?17:46
Lava_Croftstick to standard terminal17:47
jon_yhmm, ok17:47
Lava_Crofti used fingerterm for quite a while and recommended it to others too, but in the end i switched back to the stock term17:47
Lava_Croftmaybe it works better for you, its worth a try17:47
Lava_Croftthe application itself is very nicely done17:47
jon_ymy N9 is in cold storage for the last few months17:47
Lava_Croftand the transparent keyboard is smart17:47
Lava_Croftsame here:)17:47
Lava_Crofti just end up grabbing the n90017:48
jon_yhas there been any major/cool updates?17:48
Lava_Croftno clue17:48
* Drathir using ssh+irssi all the time...17:48
Lava_Crofti saw someone was working on something he calls a PowerPack17:48
jon_yyeah, still prefer n90017:48
Lava_Croftand wich is kind of like a CSSU attempt17:48
Drathiramyway pidgin can handle irc...17:48
jon_ydoes it at least have gcc?17:48
jon_ya *nix system witout a working C compiler is kind of pointless17:48
jon_yiirc nokia tried to remove it17:48
Lava_Croftjon_y: and of course stuff like MeeCast still recieves updates17:48
Lava_Croftand billboard17:49
Lava_Croftbut no real big things iirc17:49
jon_yI can't even imagine not being able to program a *nix machine17:49
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jon_yyeah, I have aegis on the N917:50
Lava_Croftim a *nix opportunist17:50
Lava_Crofti only use it when its a better solution17:50
Lava_Croftwhich basically means in my pocket and as my server17:50
jon_ykind of an ass for nokia to implement ACL17:50
jon_yN9 is *nix enough, it feels empty without a compiler17:50
Lava_CroftWell, the N9 was never really meant as a *nix device tho17:51
jon_ybut it is!17:51
Lava_Crofti still think its amazing how  *nix it is, given its supposed to be a mainstream device17:51
jon_yI can forgive it if it was a Lumia phone17:51
jon_yheh, MS promised the phones have unlocked boot loaders and stuff17:52
jon_ynothing seems to be happening on WP17:52
Lava_Croftyeah, its a bit sad17:55
Lava_Croftmy brother has wp7 and 8 devices and to be honest, its not that bad when comparing to ios and android17:55
Lava_Croftand its certainly smoother and better looking17:55
Lava_Croftbut there's just nothing happening17:55
Lava_Croftoverall its as bland as windows17:55
* Lava_Croft chuckles17:56
DocScrutinizer05jon_y: if only it was ACL17:59
DocScrutinizer05it however is more like SE-linux done the wrong way18:00
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infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizer05the last URL I like the most18:02
DocScrutinizer05and it's absolutely to the point, in just 3 sketches18:03
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jon_yDocScrutinizer05: that some doublespeak from nokia18:04
jon_yto make sure that the platform meets the18:05
jon_yrequirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment."18:05
jon_y means we going to let 3rd party be an ass and rape our customers18:05
jon_yand sufficiently drive them away18:05
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Venemo_N9win7mac, most of the time it does for me18:14
win7macVenemo_N9, anything you can do about the reconnection issue?18:16
win7macVenemo_N9, you mean it does reconnect on your device?18:17
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Venemo_N9win7mac, yep18:17
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DocScrutinizer05I talked to some guys in #znc, they do throttling - for *inbound* traffic - MUHAHAHAHA18:32
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win7macDocScrutinizer05, thanks for investigating18:33
win7macdo they throttle outbound traffic too? - does that cause problem for mobile clients?18:34
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DocScrutinizer05no, they don't throttle outbound, and of course they bashed me with "send a patch" and "it's the client's fault, not ZNC's"18:39
DocScrutinizer05anyway throttling *inbound* is as useful as... fighting a flood with tennis bat volleys18:40
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Sc0rpiusYou can throttle inbound with the window size in the IP packets that is how for example bittorrents clients cap their download20:28
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Macerhm. i need to get my bt keyboard working on this n90022:27
Macerbut then again....22:27
Macerevery time i get it working perfectly ... my n900 breaks lol22:27
Macerjust finished installing abiword heh22:28
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DrathirMacer: breaks mean restart?23:37
DocScrutinizer05I think he meant break like "... into two halves"23:48
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