| Pali | wiki is slooooow | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| FIQ | at least I can now look at cssu changelog | 00:01 |
| FIQ | in an organized place | 00:01 |
| merlin1991 | :D | 00:02 |
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| Pali | merlin1991, do you have space on server for backup? | 00:02 |
| merlin1991 | Pali: run df -h | 00:02 |
| Pali | seems yes :-) | 00:03 |
| Pali | I will mirror above repositories | 00:03 |
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| Pali | BROADCAST: I updated wiki page https://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror for diablo & chinook PLEASE backup needed new repositories | 00:11 |
| -FIQ- Pali> BROADCAST: I updated wiki page https://wiki.maemo.org/Apt-mirror for diablo & chinook PLEASE backup needed new repositories | 00:12 | |
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| WizardNumberNext | two questions: | 00:15 |
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| WizardNumberNext | 1. what do I have to do to migrate cssu-stable -> cssu-thumb (in anything apart from changing repos) | 00:16 |
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| Pali | WizardNumberNext, only click on thumb install file | 00:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | 2. can I create private mirror of RMO? I am unable to make it public at the moment, if I can. | 00:16 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, where's that one | 00:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | and anyway I cannot access RMO at the moment | 00:17 |
| WizardNumberNext | tried multiple times in last hour | 00:17 |
| Pali | look here for thumb: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84829 | 00:18 |
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| Pali | WizardNumberNext, yes you can create mirror of any apt maemo repositories | 00:18 |
| Pali | read that wiki page how to configure apt-mirror for that | 00:18 |
| FIQ | hmmmmm | 00:18 |
| WizardNumberNext | Pali, again link ould save me time, thanks | 00:19 |
| Pali | see BROADCAST message in irc ^^^^^ | 00:19 |
| WizardNumberNext | true | 00:22 |
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| grummund | hi all | 00:33 |
| grummund | i have an n900 charging via nokia dc psu and a CA-146C adaptor... | 00:34 |
| grummund | but via usb cable to a Win XP PC it does not charge | 00:35 |
| grummund | any ideas? | 00:35 |
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| pewter_tao | any idea how to get the local email drafts to sync? I'm using the default email client on maemo/n900 | 00:36 |
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| WizardNumberNext | grummund I had such problem, while I was using CA-146C | 00:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | and bad quality USB data cable | 00:38 |
| FIQ | hmm, repositories seems back online? allbeit being a bit slow | 00:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | get yourself original DATA cable (CA-101D) | 00:39 |
| grummund | WizardNumberNext: i mean with the CA-146C it works | 00:39 |
| grummund | but USB to PC it does not charge | 00:39 |
| grummund | so i can charge from the mains but not from PC, does that make sense? | 00:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | I know - it is surprising, but I had exactly same situation - CA-146C worked, but data cable didn't charge | 00:40 |
| WizardNumberNext | only data on it | 00:40 |
| grummund | hmm | 00:40 |
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| WizardNumberNext | if you can - get yourself original AC-10X Nokia walcharger - that is working just perfectly | 00:41 |
| grummund | it was charging to another PC but not with this one. :/ | 00:41 |
| WizardNumberNext | as soon as I got it (AC-10X) and data cable (CA-101D) it started to work from data cable as well - it does charge now from data cable | 00:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | but that is original | 00:42 |
| grummund | how can a usb cable be special? | 00:42 |
| WizardNumberNext | try waiting few seconds, before you will make choice for device on nokia | 00:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | it is ordinary usb cable, but it definitely working one | 00:43 |
| WizardNumberNext | most usb cables are crap | 00:43 |
| grummund | but there is no popup to choose from (i think i have that disabled in XP) | 00:43 |
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| WizardNumberNext | same with chargers - you get some original and it works, you try some cheap rubbish and it doesn't | 00:44 |
| WizardNumberNext | no, I mean on nokia itself - ity should ask you if you want to use it as usb storage or pc suite | 00:44 |
| grummund | ah, yeah i see what you mean | 00:45 |
| WizardNumberNext | both works same in terms of charging | 00:45 |
| grummund | it usually does that but not on this PC | 00:45 |
| WizardNumberNext | just don't switch immediately - give USB host time to settle down with new devic | 00:45 |
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| WizardNumberNext | then you have either broken data wires in cable or broken host | 00:46 |
| grummund | neither pc or n900 give any indication that a usb connection has been made | 00:46 |
| WizardNumberNext | I mean the pins in usb socket might go bad or hardware is damaged | 00:46 |
| WizardNumberNext | there is problem with data somewhere | 00:47 |
| WizardNumberNext | CA-146C have data wires connected and that is reason why it charges | 00:47 |
| grummund | hmm, the n900 was connecting to another pc as mass storage, and charging fine. | 00:48 |
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| WizardNumberNext | if n900 cannot see either host on other side of cable or data cables connected, then it allows only 100mA | 00:48 |
| WizardNumberNext | because, before enumeration you cannot take more from any usb port | 00:48 |
| grummund | i see | 00:48 |
| WizardNumberNext | after enumeration you can draw 500mA | 00:49 |
| grummund | so does the CA-146C have +/- data pins shorted? | 00:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | so it is either cable or USB socket or hardware or OS, which doesn't work properly | 00:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | afaik not exactly shorted | 00:49 |
| WizardNumberNext | but they are connected | 00:49 |
| grummund | maybe XP needs a driver installed? the working PC was Win 7. | 00:50 |
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| * grummund should carry a spare battery really. | 00:51 | |
| grummund | too easy to be caught out. | 00:51 |
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| WizardNumberNext | not exactly - USB enumeration is OS independend - as long as USB hub on host is running it would enumerate | 00:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | you do not to load driver for it - all you need is enumeration, which even BIOS of our days can do | 00:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | my N900 charges happily under BIOS | 00:52 |
| WizardNumberNext | I had 5 spare batteries | 00:53 |
| WizardNumberNext | now I have 4 spare | 00:53 |
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| WizardNumberNext | one got top snipped off | 00:53 |
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| grummund | just tried with same cable in a Linux PC and still no joy. | 00:57 |
| grummund | heh. what happened to the battery? | 00:57 |
| WizardNumberNext | the top plastic bit simply fell off | 01:00 |
| WizardNumberNext | cable is bad | 01:00 |
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| grummund | could be the cable but i noly have the one here to test. | 01:01 |
| grummund | will try again tomorrow | 01:02 |
| grummund | thanks for the help WizardNumberNext | 01:02 |
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| WizardNumberNext | there big possibility it is cable's fault | 01:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | if you have some wallcharger which have usb socket, then try it out and see if charges | 01:03 |
| grummund | it was a different cable on the working PC so yeah. | 01:03 |
| WizardNumberNext | that explains a lot | 01:04 |
| grummund | i just grabbed a new cable from the box (still in sealed bag) | 01:04 |
| WizardNumberNext | they differ greatly in quality - some are really good - some are crap | 01:04 |
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| WizardNumberNext | from experience - most are crap | 01:05 |
| grummund | well these were CHEAP. :-P | 01:05 |
| grummund | and we have a box of 20 :p | 01:05 |
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| WizardNumberNext | I have something like 5 USB cables for N95 and only works on EHCI | 01:05 |
| WizardNumberNext | I have USB wireless cards and only original N95 cable makes it working properly | 01:06 |
| WizardNumberNext | other drops wireless card to OHCI 12mbps | 01:06 |
| WizardNumberNext | I bet I would see 20 brand new USB cables on eBay soon | 01:07 |
| grummund | :D | 01:08 |
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| jacekowski | WizardNumberNext: enumeration will not happen without os running | 01:21 |
| WizardNumberNext | jacekowski - wrong - it happens on BIOS | 01:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | as well | 01:22 |
| WizardNumberNext | I see my mouse, my bluetooth and my card reader in bios and I even have booted of card reader | 01:23 |
| WizardNumberNext | as soon as you would initialize USB properly it would enumerate and it doesn't need any OS for it | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | well, OS was wrong word | 01:23 |
| jacekowski | it does need some kind of driver software | 01:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | I got my N900 enumerated on switched off computer! | 01:24 |
| jacekowski | BS | 01:24 |
| WizardNumberNext | I had USB powered from 5VSB | 01:24 |
| merlin1991 | jacekowski: there are those weird off charge boards that do some crap even if "turned off" but under power | 01:24 |
| r00t|home | jacekowski: well, many PCs support power up via key on usb keyboard, so they have to keep devices powered | 01:24 |
| r00t|home | and enumerated | 01:25 |
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| WizardNumberNext | as long as you would give power to initialized USB host it would enumerate | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | no | 01:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | yes | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | if you plug in a device it will send events up to the root hub | 01:26 |
| jacekowski | and then to host controller | 01:26 |
| WizardNumberNext | it is done by hardware | 01:27 |
| jacekowski | no it's not | 01:27 |
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| WizardNumberNext | ok, I know there only one hardware solution right now - it is called CPU and even CPU have soft, which runs soft | 01:27 |
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| jacekowski | hub.c in linux kernel source code | 01:28 |
| WizardNumberNext | so at the moment there is no real hardware as such | 01:28 |
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| WizardNumberNext | ok, should I remove RAM and flash from my motherboard and try to enumarate some devices? | 01:28 |
| WizardNumberNext | there would be no soft then | 01:29 |
| WizardNumberNext | I can even remove CPU | 01:29 |
| WizardNumberNext | still does it | 01:29 |
| jacekowski | well, some motherboards have weird platform controllers | 01:29 |
| jacekowski | that handle USB stack when main cpu is not running | 01:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | I know, because it was annoying me, when I was putting my PC back together after both RAM and CPU upgrade | 01:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | and I was swapping flash as well, because I made upgrade | 01:30 |
| jacekowski | but as such, USB host controller depends fully on software | 01:30 |
| WizardNumberNext | some - now most | 01:30 |
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| WizardNumberNext | that was biggest part of whole innovation - it did a lot in hardware | 01:31 |
| jacekowski | but in first place it's against ATX spec | 01:31 |
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| jacekowski | 5vsb is not supposed to be used to power any external devices | 01:31 |
| WizardNumberNext | I agree | 01:31 |
| WizardNumberNext | 5vsb is not supposed to run hardwae | 01:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | if PSU is off, everything should be off | 01:32 |
| jacekowski | and another thing, to handle usb keyboard you need complete usb stack not just enumeration | 01:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | maybe apart of keyboard and mouse on PS/2 | 01:32 |
| jacekowski | you have to handle fairly complex HID part of the usb spec | 01:32 |
| WizardNumberNext | and that is why I never was able to wake up PC from USB kb, but with PS/2 there's no problem at all | 01:33 |
| jacekowski | and normally when PC is running and you want to use dos with usb keyboard | 01:34 |
| WizardNumberNext | yeah with rawly milion buttons (ok say around 105-130) | 01:34 |
| WizardNumberNext | don't remind me dos with usb kb | 01:34 |
| jacekowski | it's using SMM to emulate old PS2 keyboard | 01:34 |
| WizardNumberNext | I never was going this way | 01:35 |
| WizardNumberNext | that is actually quite a surprise for me - SMM for USB kb | 01:35 |
| WizardNumberNext | what a idea - that's sounds do ridiculous | 01:35 |
| WizardNumberNext | anyway, I cannot believe I ever had computer without USB | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | well, there is no other "easy" way to do it | 01:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | now it would be completely unthinkable | 01:37 |
| jacekowski | something has to handle USB stack while DOS has full control | 01:37 |
| WizardNumberNext | but it still should be possible in BIOS | 01:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | why SMM | 01:38 |
| jacekowski | BIOS is just a piece of code | 01:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | DOS uses BIOS for everything | 01:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | I know | 01:38 |
| WizardNumberNext | more of initialization, then usefull code | 01:39 |
| WizardNumberNext | but it changes | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | thing is, BIOS code is not executed unless DOS wants something | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | like keypress or some stuff from HDD | 01:39 |
| jacekowski | because back then there was dedicated keyboard controller with it's own buffer | 01:40 |
| orlok | grr | 01:40 |
| orlok | my N900 started failing bigtime last ight | 01:40 |
| orlok | it made a weird noise, like the startup sound, but corrupted | 01:40 |
| orlok | then it turned off and wouldent turn on for an hour or two, i had to try like a dozen times | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | now, with USB host controller can interrupt main cpu, but then you would need an interrupt handler | 01:41 |
| orlok | it would show the startup pulsating dots and crap out halfway | 01:41 |
| jacekowski | but DOS has full control over those | 01:41 |
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| jacekowski | BIOS could set up those initially, but there would be no guarantees with regards to what happens after that | 01:42 |
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| jacekowski | so that would work 9 times out of 10 | 01:42 |
| * orlok ponders what to do | 01:42 | |
| jacekowski | orlok: flash it | 01:42 |
| orlok | jacekowski: ... Whats the problem? | 01:42 |
| jacekowski | only thing that OS (DOS/windows/linux) cannot touch is SMM | 01:42 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | user guide icon now goes to swipe.nokia.com | 01:46 |
| sixwheeledbeast | don't remember that the other day | 01:46 |
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| RST38h | Hehe: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/24/canonical-ubuntu-smartphone-core-apps/ | 08:30 |
| * RST38h wonders when the "you develop - we say thanks and sell" business model has become so popular | 08:30 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | suckers | 08:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | became popular when Shuttleworth decided to order his Canonical to build that me-too-windows | 08:40 |
| RST38h | Hasn't THAT started with Gnome though? | 08:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as if Canonical had invented linux desktop | 08:41 |
| khm | RST38h: gnome wasn't always awful | 08:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the me-too-windows, yes. That's been g*UULP | 08:41 |
| RST38h | khm: I do not mean awful, I mean me-too-windowsness part | 08:41 |
| khm | ingo molnar brought the microsoft cloning mission | 08:41 |
| RST38h | Doc: Canonical did invent the first practically usable linux desktop | 08:42 |
| khm | no, not ingo | 08:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~lart RST38h | 08:42 |
| * infobot says "boot to the head" and knocks RST38h over | 08:42 | |
| RST38h | Doc: Without having to endlessly fiddle with it and/or squint at twm windows | 08:42 |
| khm | miguel de icaza | 08:42 |
| khm | he's the microsoft follower | 08:43 |
| khm | RST38h: also not really true. there were a few before ubuntu. | 08:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 used KDE when it was still | 08:43 | |
| RST38h | khm: Not really | 08:43 |
| khm | ubuntu just had the money to market it | 08:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | OK and gnome never been heard of outside those mothern countries | 08:43 |
| * RST38h tried many linux distros. Ubuntu was the firstone that installed and worked. | 08:43 | |
| khm | RST38h: yes, really. | 08:43 |
| khm | ok | 08:43 |
| khm | I guess we'll just take your experience as global fact | 08:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | s/mothern/northern/ | 08:44 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: OK and gnome never been heard of outside those northern countries | 08:44 |
| RST38h | khm: My experience is the basis of my personal opinion | 08:44 |
| khm | thanks for letting me know | 08:44 |
| khm | meanwhile, other people had different experiences. | 08:44 |
| RST38h | khm: You can, of course, argue against it, but it is usually not fruitful | 08:44 |
| RST38h | khm: Yeah, I am familiar with linuxoids' "it works for me, and your hands are growing out of your ass" clause | 08:45 |
| khm | of course not. I have nothing to gain by showing you that you're wrong. | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SuSE installed just fine since Rev6 here, maybe since Rev5 | 08:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with KDE | 08:45 |
| khm | now you're attacking a straw man. | 08:45 |
| RST38h | Doc: I have been getting official boxed SuSE kits from SuSE itself since version 1 | 08:46 |
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| RST38h | Doc: NONE of them EVER worked on my laptop(s). And I even know why, but it does not make things right. | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | RST38h: there never been a ver1 | 08:46 |
| khm | DocScrutinizer05: RST38h has used every piece of software released by every human being since the Altair 8800 | 08:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they started with 4.4 iirc | 08:46 |
| RST38h | Doc: On the desktop, SuSE worked but required about 2-3 times more fiddling than FreeBSD, for Tentacled's sake | 08:47 |
| khm | what he is saying now is the absolute unfiltered truth and anyone who disagrees with him is a lying elitist terrorist. | 08:47 |
| RST38h | Doc: Well, whatever first boxed edition they started selling. Still have 5-6of those boxessomewhere | 08:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shhh kids | 08:47 |
| khm | anyway | 08:47 |
| khm | the point is | 08:47 |
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| khm | ubuntu wasn't the first, and my favorite part of gnome will always be gconf | 08:47 |
| khm | they loved the windows registry so much they made their own | 08:48 |
| khm | and rubbed some xml on for good measure | 08:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 08:48 |
| RST38h | Doc: [do abstain from starting me on Redhat or some other abomination, as I got to enable Redhat bootup on some upcoming Intel chips] | 08:48 |
| khm | RST38h: please post a complete list of things nobody should mention | 08:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shhh kids | 08:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | daddy had no breakfast coffee yet | 08:50 |
| RST38h | don't you have an iv? | 08:50 |
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| RST38h | Moo, MohammadAG | 08:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: It Lives!!!! | 08:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 08:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | philhug: thanks for your mail | 08:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | SpeedEvil: could you please find that link about the voltage/Amperes and waveshape for that electric painkiller again? | 08:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 needs it | 08:55 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | talk.maemo.org. 26619 IN A 188.117.59.209 | 09:45 |
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| kgu | any one who uses dyndns on the n900? | 09:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yay | 10:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | interesting idea, never occurred to me | 10:00 |
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| kgu | as long as you are not behind NAT, it would be nice | 10:02 |
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| RST38h | Doc: So, what is the current deal about maemo repositories? The official one no longer answers. | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Is there a replacement now? | 10:30 |
| tadzik | ~mirrors | 10:30 |
| infobot | mirror is, like, http://maemo-archive.wedrop.it/ http://maemo.merlin1991.at/apt-mirror/ http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1315143#post1315143 | 10:30 |
| tadzik | there's a TMO post which explains all the things | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Is there a PERMANENT repository now? | 10:30 |
| RST38h | Not a mirror of the old repository, I mean? | 10:30 |
| tadzik | that I do not know | 10:31 |
| RST38h | That is why I have been asking DocScrutinizer | 10:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? | 10:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~repo-down | 10:32 |
| infobot | methinks repo-down is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-20.log.html#t2013-01-20T02:08:42 | 10:32 |
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| RST38h | Aha, thanks. This has been 4 days ago though. Any news since then? =) | 10:34 |
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| RST38h | Too many users then...hmm | 10:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we seen FW again crumpling on the ground this morning, we took down stage.m.o again and gave FW a boot, since then *.m.o excl repo is back to normal | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plans are to expose repo.m.o directly to the internets now | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | without FW, or with dedicated traffic shaping | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so it will no longer tear down whole *.m.o | 10:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | we tweaked FW yesterday, but this changed situation only from "instantly down as soon as stage gets enabled" to "down after 90min" | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | first crash after 90min got "fixed" by a reboot, seems Eero kept stage.m.o up and eventually it again crashed reso came to a grinding halt | 10:41 |
| RST38h | Ok, the summary then: Still messed up beyond any use ? | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | repo yes | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rest should be fine right now | 10:42 |
| warfare | DocScrutinizer05: how many connections do you expect to r.m.o per second? | 10:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except the other usual problems, with mail delivery, login/account-creation, autobuilder-down, etc | 10:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: honestly, nfc | 10:43 |
| warfare | :] | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: there are 40k devices out there, allegedly | 10:43 |
| warfare | Any way I can help with anything server related? | 10:43 |
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| kgu | DocScrutinizer05: You have done a perfect job, thx. Looking forward to see how repos will survive wild internet :) | 10:44 |
| warfare | 40k connections shouldn't kill a firewall, as apt on maemo serializes connections. | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | If Eero was seeking for help, I guess he would come here and ask. So all I can do is occasional forward of terse but brilliant remarks to him | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-24 08:57:24] <mashiara> anyway, I need to get back to my usual duties, we'll see about the best way to bypass that cranky FW as soon as fesible | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2013-01-24 08:58:01] <mashiara> at least repository alone should be easy to move to the public side (and rate limit just that one port) | 10:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: since for now it's not "our" call to manage the whole stuff, I hope for Nemein to get things sorted asap | 10:47 |
| warfare | DocScrutinizer05: Ok :) | 10:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | btw 15min ago I fired up a mail about general login/register problems in *.m.o, ML delivery issues, autobuilder/drop | 10:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | please evrybody check http://wiki.maemo.org/Migrating_to_Community-driven_Infrastructure and holler resp /query me, if you know about any maintainer in duty. We urgently need to gather that info and contact maintainers | 11:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Yes, I know it's a bit strange that not even council has an idea who's maintaining what | 11:16 |
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| narcos | Hi maemoers. Does anyone have advice on interacting with Bluetooth from an N900 via Python? | 12:02 |
| narcos | I can use hcitool, and parse the output, but would be neater to use some APIs | 12:02 |
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| trekky | hola | 12:05 |
| merlin1991 | narcos: thp might know, but he's not on the channel, but you can try to /msg him | 12:06 |
| narcos | merlin1991: Cool, thanks | 12:07 |
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| freemangordon | narcos: afaik bluemaemo is written in python, you may want to get the sources and check | 12:10 |
| Pali | merlin1991, freemangordon: look at irc log about mce | 12:10 |
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| Pali | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-01-23.log.html#t2013-01-23T23:22:27 | 12:11 |
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| narcos | freemangordon: Checking it out now, thanks | 12:12 |
| freemangordon | Pali: do we really need mce rewritten now? | 12:12 |
| freemangordon | Pali: i.e. are there any bugs to be fixed? | 12:13 |
| Pali | I want to remove /proc/component_version from full maemo system | 12:13 |
| Pali | to use upstream kernel | 12:13 |
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| Pali | also mce has hardcoded some /sys paths which was changed in upstream kernel | 12:13 |
| freemangordon | Pali: did you boot maemo with upstream? on the device? | 12:13 |
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| Pali | not yet | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | well, I think mce is your last problem :) | 12:14 |
| freemangordon | what about GSM and GPS? | 12:14 |
| Pali | GPS is not hard problem if we have working phonet0 interface | 12:15 |
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| Pali | there is gpsd plugin for that | 12:15 |
| Pali | also simple console application which print gps packets from phonet0 | 12:16 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: I'd rather focus on glibc/kernel in CSSU. Now when wiki is up (?) again. And leave upstream kernel for a better times :) | 12:16 |
| Pali | look at gps2.c: https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_GPS_Reverse_Engineering | 12:17 |
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| freemangordon | nice :) | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | does ssi/hsi work? | 12:18 |
| Pali | On maemo with 2.6.28 kernel it worked | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | I mean with upstream | 12:18 |
| Pali | it using AF_PHONET | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | I know | 12:18 |
| Pali | not tested | 12:18 |
| Pali | there is problem with ssi/hsi on 3.8 | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | because it was not in 3.5 | 12:19 |
| Pali | ssi driver oopsing | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | hmm, what problem? | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | oops :) | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | Pali: which patch? | 12:19 |
| Pali | when loading omap_ssi.ko | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | that was working with 3.5, no oopses. at least with the patches I used | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | but userspace was giving errors | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | it was unable to open/init/whatever the modem | 12:20 |
| Pali | also it oopsing when loading g_nokia driver | 12:21 |
| Pali | but usb network working | 12:21 |
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| Pali | also mass storage | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | is g_nokia upstream? | 12:21 |
| Pali | yes | 12:22 |
| Pali | but problem is in musb | 12:22 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, strange then | 12:22 |
| Pali | or somewhere in usb code | 12:22 |
| Pali | btw I have patch which adding mass storage mode to g_nokia | 12:22 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: did you build it as module? (musb) | 12:22 |
| Pali | no | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:22 |
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| Pali | when I tried that it not worked | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | that is why ask | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | *I ask | 12:23 |
| Pali | patch for g_nokia was rejected because only nokia can update g_nokia.ko driver in upstream | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | what? why? | 12:23 |
| Pali | read https://lkml.org/lkml/2013/1/19/165 | 12:23 |
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| * narcos finds http://hackgnar.com/article/slides-libraries-and-tutorials-from-my-defcon-and/ | 12:27 | |
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| freemangordon | Pali: :( | 12:28 |
| freemangordon | BTW it seems all of the kernel maintainers own n900 :D | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | which is good | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | Pali: so, what do you try to do? Push 3.8 (or 3.9) in CSSU? elaborate please. | 12:31 |
| Pali | no, to cssu we can push only some subset of kernel-power | 12:32 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 12:32 |
| Pali | to not break other parts | 12:32 |
| Pali | freemangordon, I will push kernel-power git repo to garage | 12:32 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:32 |
| Pali | last deb packages are on TMO thread | 12:32 |
| Pali | autobuilder still not working | 12:32 |
| freemangordon | Pali: BTW any signs when autobuilder will be up again? | 12:33 |
| Pali | I did not received any message | 12:33 |
| Pali | nice, git push to garage not working... | 12:33 |
| Pali | remote: sudo: no tty present and no askpass program specified | 12:33 |
| Pali | ! [remote rejected] master -> master (pre-receive hook declined) | 12:34 |
| Pali | error: failed to push some refs to 'ssh://drop.maemo.org/git/kernel-power' | 12:34 |
| freemangordon | damn | 12:34 |
| freemangordon | Pali: move to gitorious | 12:34 |
| Pali | I will push it to cssu kernel to kernel-power branch | 12:34 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:34 |
| freemangordon | sounds sane | 12:35 |
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| narcos | Hmm, can we get Python 2.7 on Maemo? | 12:38 |
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| Pali | freemangordon, pushed: https://gitorious.org/community-ssu/kernel-cssu/trees/kernel-power | 12:41 |
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| Pali | freemangordon, now I merged kernel-power to kernel-cssu master | 13:03 |
| Pali | look if merge is ok | 13:03 |
| Pali | then we can start selecting patches for kernel in cssu | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: here you are, pal! | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: many thanks for your excellent answer re GPG key | 13:04 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, so? | 13:04 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, do we need updated GPG key? | 13:05 |
| Pali | tablets-dev is down | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to forward or even publish it to the general community | 13:05 |
| Pali | catalogue is down too | 13:05 |
| Pali | so downloads.maemo is comming too.... | 13:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's unfortunate but completely out of our range of responsibility | 13:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess we have backups, not much more we can do for now | 13:06 |
| Pali | ok | 13:06 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, can nokia change expiration of GPG key? | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems the can, and have, on their repo | 13:06 |
| Pali | and can nokia release new FW via PC-suite? | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they didn't answer that | 13:07 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, I looked at well know public gpg keyservers and nokia gpg key was not updated | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | rather they asked how to update key on device as well, and if that would "re-establish chain of trust and put repo back to work" | 13:07 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, updating public gpg key on devic need user interaction | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, we for sure can suggest to them to update the key on gpgkeyserver | 13:08 |
| Pali | $ apt-key adv blabla... | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, *I* know that | 13:08 |
| Pali | but they should also update DEB packages which has that gpg key included | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm swamped with work so haven't found the time yet to forward your last answer to them | 13:09 |
| Pali | because if somebody reinstall that DEB packages from repository, new key can be deleted... | 13:09 |
| Pali | all deb packages are in that mail | 13:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: did you discuss with other guys over at #maemo-ssu about that magic never-expiring key on our devices? | 13:10 |
| Pali | no | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please do | 13:10 |
| Pali | but maemo repositry has that key | 13:10 |
| Pali | also I think maemo cssu-stable repo has never expiring | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nokia might use that key to sign the repo, and thus put everything back to operation "magically" - or not | 13:11 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, nokia should not change gpg key on their repository | 13:11 |
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| Pali | it can be bigger problem | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | please discuss it with other guys, I don't want to send Nokia incomplete info | 13:11 |
| freemangordon | Pali: why? | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can we move that to ssu chan please? | 13:12 |
| Pali | freemangordon, because updating HAM config file is hard | 13:12 |
| Pali | but in HAM are no expiration dates | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | can we move that to ssu chan please? | 13:12 |
| freemangordon | Pali: we have a non-expired key on the devices, why resigning the repo with it should bring problems? | 13:12 |
| Pali | only fingerptints of gpg keys | 13:12 |
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| freemangordon | sure | 13:12 |
| Pali | ok | 13:13 |
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| kerio | fun stuff, the cheap chinese battery vi____ recommended states that [something in chinese]: >2400µAh | 13:15 |
| kerio | Pali: the key used for maemo extras won't work for ssu/mr0 and ssu/apps | 13:16 |
| kerio | different trust level | 13:16 |
| kerio | they need to use the maemosw key | 13:16 |
| Pali | kerio, move to #maemo-ssu | 13:16 |
| vi____ | wut wut. | 13:19 |
| vi____ | my ears are burning | 13:19 |
| kerio | vi____: your 1600mAh battery | 13:19 |
| kerio | the weird orange one | 13:19 |
| vi____ | aaah yes. the orange monster. | 13:19 |
| kerio | i bought it too, just arrived | 13:19 |
| kerio | if it's really 1600mAh, i'll be impressed | 13:19 |
| vi____ | Ah, the last I looked they seemed to have dissappeared. | 13:19 |
| vi____ | ^spelling | 13:19 |
| vi____ | well, unless my bq chip lies...that is what I got. | 13:22 |
| kerio | how many times have you calibrated? | 13:23 |
| vi____ | about 3 | 13:23 |
| kerio | fair 'nuff | 13:23 |
| vi____ | first reading was ~1700 | 13:23 |
| vi____ | second dropped to about ~1620 | 13:23 |
| vi____ | third ~1602 | 13:24 |
| vi____ | or there abouts. | 13:24 |
| kerio | hm | 13:24 |
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| ShadowJK | When reaching calibration threshold, bq assumes there's still 6% remaining. For Japod atleast it's more like 1%, so you get 5% "lie" in there | 14:46 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, did you got my email about garage? | 14:49 |
| Pali | now I found another problem: I cannot push to git kernel-power garage repository | 14:50 |
| Pali | error message is here: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2013-01-24T12:33:58 | 14:50 |
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| Pali | ~seen romaxa | 14:52 |
| infobot | romaxa is currently on #maemo (1d 13h 50m 10s), last said: 'freemangordon: no via browser-eal interface'. | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: [2013-01-24 09:59:48] <DocScrutinizer05> btw 15min ago I fired up a mail about general login/register problems in *.m.o, ML delivery issues, autobuilder/drop | 14:53 |
| M4rtinK | DocScrutinizer05: thanks ! :) | 14:54 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer05, problem is that it is not possible to change project members permission on garage | 14:56 |
| Pali | I forwared you mail about it | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: [2013-01-24 09:59:48] <DocScrutinizer05> btw 15min ago I fired up a mail about general login/register problems in *.m.o, ML delivery issues, autobuilder/drop | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | guess what it been about, and what I attached | 14:57 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders when check comes through and if they will pay me good for that stuff. Turned into a 60h/week job recently | 14:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meh, actually more like 90 | 15:00 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/24/nokia-microsoft-payments/ | 15:39 |
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| kerio | Pali: time_to_empty_now isn't accessible if bq27k isn't calibrated, is that intended? | 16:15 |
| Pali | kerio, yes time_time_empty reported by bq27x should be reported only if chip is calibrated | 16:16 |
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| freemangordon | Pali: BTW did you fix the applet bars when BME is used? | 16:16 |
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| Pali | I did not look at it yet | 16:16 |
| freemangordon | ok | 16:16 |
| kerio | Pali: BTW did you fix the version check that has been mistakenly implemented instead of a check on the existance of bme_RX-51? | 16:18 |
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| pavi | I added the merlin mirror , but when I run apt-get update I get hash sum mismatch error . What am I doing wrong ? | 16:28 |
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| thedead1440 | pavi: use skeiron mirror instead... | 16:29 |
| pavi | thedead1440: ok | 16:29 |
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| pavi | some repo's are just named as fremantle while some as fremantle-1.3 , why differ? | 16:35 |
| pavi | My N900 is GSM dead while I am trying to download the stardict to atleast use it as a dictionary ;) | 16:36 |
| merlin1991 | pavi: if you're looking just for extras-devel then this should be the best option: http://extras-devel.merlin1991.at/ | 16:36 |
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| pavi | merlin1991: ahh the merlin of the mirror , thanks Yeah I was looking for extras-devel | 16:36 |
| kgu | repos still behind the busy firewall? | 16:37 |
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| khm | pavi: some packages work on all versions of fremantle. some require specific versions of libraries that differed between releases. | 16:40 |
| pavi | khm: ok | 16:40 |
| kerio | pavi: histerical raisins, pretty much | 16:40 |
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| RST38h | Ho ho ho http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MjI | 16:44 |
| RST38h | And then... http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/alan-cox-leaves-intel-linux-105279 | 16:44 |
| RST38h | Lenart KILLED ALAN COX! | 16:46 |
| Pali | lennart?? | 16:47 |
| Pali | poettering?? | 16:47 |
| RST38h | There is only one | 16:47 |
| RST38h | I mean, only one whomade it into verbs | 16:48 |
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| kerio | freemangordon: is locking at 500MHz harmful? | 17:04 |
| Pali | garage.maemo.org is down? | 17:05 |
| Pali | No route to host | 17:07 |
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| Pali | also wiki is down | 17:19 |
| Pali | DocScrutinizer05 ^^^ | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; not significantly, but why? Omap3 switches freq so fast, not like Omap2 :) | 17:20 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: to use as much energy as possible | 17:21 |
| kerio | although i'd also need a busyloop | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WAAAAAH! >>Couldn't authenticate against garage. (DB problem)<< | 17:22 |
| kerio | ShadowJK: what the hell, the power consumption is going *down* :s | 17:24 |
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| kerio | i'm calibrating the orange battery | 17:24 |
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| ShadowJK | while true: do A=1 ; done | 17:35 |
| ShadowJK | busyloop in busybox | 17:35 |
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| Pali | while true; do true; done | 17:38 |
| Pali | or sleep 10000 | 17:38 |
| jaska | while :; do true; done | 17:38 |
| jaska | for some reason busybox shell wont take shorter forms than that it seems | 17:39 |
| kerio | and now i'm worried about overheating :s | 17:39 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: what was your test of a good battery again? | 17:45 |
| kerio | because i'm not entirely sure that this battery will last for long | 17:45 |
| romaxa | Pali: pong | 17:45 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: Pali: btw we have made irc channel related to embedlite on irc.mozilla.org #embedlite | 17:46 |
| Pali | romaxa, last month I sent you email about microb, did you received it? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] garage.maemo.org down, other services (except tmo) operational as long as you don't try to log in | 17:48 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: why don't you send it as an actual NOTICE? | 17:48 |
| romaxa | Pali: just found it, I guess I read it and forgot to answer ;( | 17:49 |
| jonwil | Can anyone tell me what work is being done to improve microb and who is doing it? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: e.g. because of several users have notices on ignore, and those who watch my nick won't get highlighted as well | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it probably doen't even show up in chanlog | 17:50 |
| romaxa | Pali: is that about tablet-browser-ui redistro/ | 17:51 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you can notice the channel | 17:51 |
| Pali | romaxa, yes | 17:51 |
| kerio | some clients don't like that, though | 17:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: ORLY? | 17:51 |
| jonwil | what does redistro mean? | 17:51 |
| kerio | actually, only mIRC, that i know of | 17:51 |
| romaxa | Pali: I think you can distribute new binary, no sources :( | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile: http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/533687/2adb64ca055d936a/ | 17:53 |
| kerio | niiiice | 17:53 |
| jonwil | I thought tablet-browser-ui was closed source and therefore something we couldn't change | 17:53 |
| Pali | romaxa there is problem with binaries too, we had cssu meating abou t it | 17:53 |
| jonwil | and therefore didn't need to redistribute | 17:53 |
| jonwil | i.e. we change tablet-browser-engine (the open bits | 17:53 |
| romaxa | Pali: for browser with sources I would suggest to join to embedlite development with QML in order to make everything fine | 17:54 |
| jonwil | and redistribute that | 17:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] garage.maemo.org down, other services (except tmo) operational as long as you don't try to log in. ETA 90min | 17:54 |
| jonwil | but leave the UI as-is unless someone wants to reverse engineer all that mess | 17:54 |
| kerio | jonwil: it's not that easy, with the most recent gecko | 17:54 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 has some RL affairs pending, and waves | 17:54 | |
| jonwil | So is the issue that we need to write a new UI that is capable of talking to the newest gecko? | 17:55 |
| kerio | jonwil: more likely, a wrapper | 17:55 |
| kerio | but really, tablet-browser-ui needs a rewrite | 17:55 |
| jonwil | Remember though that anything we do has to remain compatible with the other things that use the browser | 17:57 |
| jonwil | rtcom-messaging-ui in particular | 17:57 |
| jonwil | Or are you saying we rewrite that beast too? | 17:58 |
| kerio | we'd still need a compatibility wrapper or something similar to make those work as they did | 17:58 |
| kerio | keeping two geckos in ram at the same time is not feasible | 17:58 |
| jonwil | yeah true | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 17:59 |
| freemangordon | but latest coomit for embedlite is something "make gtk build finaly work" | 17:59 |
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| freemangordon | I am building that right now and will check, yesterday it was segfaulting | 18:00 |
| freemangordon | I guess it is possible to rewrite microb-eal and use new gecko | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | though according to romaxa it is not that easy :) | 18:01 |
| SpeedEvil | :-) | 18:01 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: Seems there are some changes in fremantle browser, I built dummy-eal and tried to start browser it dummy as engine. | 18:03 |
| freemangordon | It was not loaded | 18:03 |
| freemangordon | is microb-eal usage somehow hardcoded? | 18:03 |
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| jonwil | ok, so the way to go for the short term (IMO) is to keep the dbus interface exposed by tablet-browser-daemon (aka browserd) exactly the same and replace all the bits underneath it. That should keep tutorial-home-applet, rtcom-messaging-ui and tablet-browser-ui 100% working as-is | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: in theory, yes | 18:05 |
| freemangordon | though we need to find how exactly all these parrts interact as the info on garage seems outdated | 18:06 |
| jonwil | I think from memory the only consumers of Gecko are tutorial-home-applet, rtcom-messaging-ui, tablet-browser-ui and nokiamaps | 18:06 |
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| freemangordon | Or I am too stupid to understand it (the info on garage) :D | 18:06 |
| jonwil | nokiamaps links directly to browser-eal and doesn't go through browserd (for reasons I dont understand) | 18:07 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: romaxa said conversations do the same (iirc) | 18:08 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: is it clear to you what browser-eal and microb-eal do? | 18:08 |
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| freemangordon | and what loads what and when? | 18:09 |
| freemangordon | my understanding is that browser (UI) tells browserd (via dbus) to load a specific engine. is that correct? | 18:09 |
| jonwil | Let me check some things and get on that in a sec | 18:10 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: I think last moment we stopped keeping it work with other engines... so possibly something got broken | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; difference between load/idle voltage. Difference in voltage (in Volts) divided by Difference of current (in Amps). < .3 is really good | 18:10 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: I see. But in theory replacing microb-eal would do the job, ain't? | 18:11 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: in theory yes | 18:11 |
| freemangordon | great | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [general notice] garage.maemo.org recovered. ETA 90min been incorrect, sorry ;-) | 18:12 |
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| freemangordon | romaxa: don;t get me wring, I am all for having working qml embedlite on n900, but qml is overkill on top of already memory hog gecko. the best that could happen is if we can somehow built libxul to support both qml and gtk UI and to 1. replace microb-eal and 2. have qml interface for those who don;t like microb | 18:14 |
| freemangordon | *wrong | 18:14 |
| kerio | don't get him wring, too | 18:14 |
| kerio | that's also important | 18:14 |
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| freemangordon | having old gecko connected to one of the most important part of the system (convesation ui) does not leave many choices | 18:16 |
| freemangordon | AIUI | 18:16 |
| ShadowJK | /notice is a really badly named thing. In the RFC, it's described as being same as normal message, except that bots must not respond or take any action to notice, and that bots must use notice and not msg. The rationale being to avoid bots replying to bots and flooding eachother. It's unfortunate that murc started treating it the way it does :) | 18:16 |
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| romaxa | freemangordon: in that case I guess you need to make microb-eal compiling against latest gecko.... I guess that is not extremely hard to do | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: thanks for clarifying | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: with the except it is closed source :D AFAIK | 18:18 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: microb-eal is open | 18:18 |
| jonwil | yes it is | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | is it? great | 18:18 |
| freemangordon | aah, why then I am wasting time with bummy-eal? | 18:19 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: most of the browser stack behind browser-eal is open | 18:19 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: thanks a lot | 18:19 |
| jonwil | AFAIK everything pulled in by tablet-browser-daemon (including tablet-browser-daemon itself) is open except for plugins | 18:20 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: even RenderDocument API which microb using for SHMEM rendering still available http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/dom/interfaces/base/nsIDOMWindowUtils.idl#1076 | 18:20 |
| freemangordon | great, will try | 18:21 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: could embedlite be used? | 18:21 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: all sources were available in https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/browser/mozilla/trunk/ but not sure what is going on now | 18:21 |
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| freemangordon | garage/repos/wiki are down afaik | 18:22 |
| Pali | wiki is up again :-) | 18:22 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: no, embedlite with OMTC/IPC stack architecturally doing same thing as whole microb-eal ... daemons async rendering et.c. | 18:22 |
| Pali | and garage seems too.. | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: exactly my point | 18:22 |
| freemangordon | to remove everything not needed and to use newer and supported interface | 18:23 |
| freemangordon | (in microb-eal) | 18:23 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: I guess it is possible | 18:24 |
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| jonwil | From memory at some point browser-neteal and tablet-browser-daemon were available in open source form somewhere but as old code. Then someone updated them to the most recent code patching PR1.3. UI is not open at all | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: it was romaxa | 18:24 |
| freemangordon | :) | 18:24 |
| jonwil | ok | 18:24 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: but problem is that with microb tablet-browser-eal collecting SHMEM updates and compositing it into it's own offscreen.. embedlite using Gecko compositor... same as Android or Firefox OS usies | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: in theory we don;t need UI to be open to replace the engine | 18:25 |
| jonwil | no | 18:25 |
| jonwil | ok, so based on some analysis, what we have is this: 1.Gecko (libgtkmozembed, microb-engine, others) which is used by modest and by the rest of the browser stack | 18:25 |
| freemangordon | doez modest use gtkmozembed? | 18:25 |
| jonwil | 2.microb-eal and browser-eal, only consumers of those are tablet-browser-daemon and nokiamaps | 18:25 |
| jonwil | modest uses microb-engine at least | 18:25 |
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| romaxa | http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/browser_paper.html | 18:26 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: damn, this is like octopus :( | 18:26 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: IPC stack is currently used only in browser.... maps,chats,modest I guess using old style browser-eal with XEmbed | 18:27 |
| jonwil | Modest is open source so we can change it to talk to Gecko however we want | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: the less to change, the better | 18:27 |
| jonwil | true | 18:27 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: but IPC indirectly uses browser-eal through browserd, correct? | 18:28 |
| jonwil | Maps on the other hand is a hard one both because it embeds the browser via browser-eal/microb-eal and because of the components it ads to the browser (the xpt files and matching shared libraries) | 18:28 |
| jonwil | ok, so we have those 2, then on top of that we have tablet-browser-daemon (open source, provides browserd daemon) | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: if those are somehow standart mozilla plugins, I guess they will work. | 18:29 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: some of them yes... IIRC maps don't use IPC stack... conversation use IPC but not tablet-browser-view like interface just XEmbed | 18:29 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: I am trying to find if there is a single module we can replace without losing functionality | 18:30 |
| jonwil | The maps plugins depend on whether Maemo has special stuff in its fork of Gecko and also whether APIs and interfaces the maps plugins use have changed in newer geckos | 18:30 |
| kerio | jonwil: meh, Maps | 18:30 |
| jonwil | modest FYI is not using gtkmozembed, just microb-engine | 18:30 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: that shouldn't be much of a problem, we have the source code (of microb and fennec) | 18:31 |
| freemangordon | so I guess we can forward-port the needed code changes | 18:31 |
| jonwil | ok, so on top of tablet-browser-daemon we have browser-neteal (also open source I believe) | 18:31 |
| romaxa | yep it is | 18:32 |
| freemangordon | finally, latest embedlite for gtk is ready, lets check if it still segfaults :) | 18:32 |
| romaxa | basically browser-EAL it is interface.... daemon+neteal is just version of browser-eal which makes that interface multiprocess | 18:32 |
| jonwil | yeah the interface to browser-neteal and browser-eal are very similar but not the same | 18:33 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: I added some tricks in order to build and run gtk version of embedlite | 18:33 |
| romaxa | jonwil: neteal has some async methods for initializations | 18:33 |
| jonwil | yeah | 18:33 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: the is no problem with the build (besides missing libs in makefile), at least here | 18:34 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: at least with latest embedlite source code I was able to run NO_LOOK_N_FEEL_GTK=1 ./embedLiteViewInitTest | 18:34 |
| jonwil | ok, so browser-neteal is used by tutorial-home-applet, tablet-browser-view, rtcom-messaging-ui, tablet-browser-controls and tablet-browser-ui | 18:34 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: I fied that already... | 18:35 |
| romaxa | fixed | 18:35 |
| kerio | tutorial-home-applet? really? | 18:35 |
| jonwil | yes it embeds a browser window with a flash movie in it | 18:35 |
| kerio | oh for crying out loud | 18:35 |
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| romaxa | kerio: :D yeah... that would be hardest thing to rewrite | 18:35 |
| kerio | just purge that shite | 18:35 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: I saw татяна pushed some commits today, going to test them | 18:36 |
| kerio | romaxa: extract the flv, lossless conversion to a container that mediaplayer groks, change tutorial-home-applet to a dbus call to open that video in mediaplayer | 18:36 |
| kerio | or something | 18:36 |
| romaxa | yep so maps still using old style non-ipc browser-eal interface | 18:36 |
| freemangordon | good | 18:36 |
| romaxa | kerio: it is interactive | 18:36 |
| kerio | D: | 18:37 |
| kerio | even worse! | 18:37 |
| romaxa | kerio: that is need to be rewritten in html5 ;) | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | can;t we just open a browser? | 18:37 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: yep we can | 18:37 |
| freemangordon | :D | 18:37 |
| jonwil | ok, so browser-neteal is used by tablet-browser-view, the browser UI itself and by rtcom-messaging-ui and tutorial-home-applet | 18:39 |
| jonwil | interestingly tablet-browser-view has a -dev package in the SDK (seems to be one of those oddities that maybe ended up there without the intent for it to be there) | 18:41 |
| Pali | freemangordon, wiki page is updated to match kp52: https://wiki.maemo.org/CSSU_kernel_assess | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | jonwil: iirc there are about 3 dbus ca;;s defined there | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | Pali: great | 18:41 |
| freemangordon | Pali: if only it works :D | 18:42 |
| jonwil | tablet-browser-view-dev is an actual dev package that contains actual APIs for linking to tablet-browser-view (aka libtablet-browser-view.so) | 18:45 |
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| jonwil | it also contains 2 other random .h files that are totally useless | 18:46 |
| jonwil | which is why I suspect it wasn't meant to be in the SDK... | 18:47 |
| Pali | jonwil, do you want to hacking mce? | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~upsidedown татяна | 18:48 |
| infobot | анятат | 18:48 |
| jonwil | I have tried to hack MCE in the past and failed | 18:48 |
| jonwil | so no, I dont want to touch that mess again | 18:48 |
| Pali | I have patched harmattan version with some patches from diablo and some my for fremantle | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~upsidedown dafaq | 18:48 |
| infobot | bɐɟɐp | 18:49 |
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| jonwil | tablet-browser-view is used by the browser UI, also by tablet-browser-view-test (which used to be closed source until I cloned it and made it open source :) and also by rtcom-messaging-ui (although I think rtcom-messaging-ui just links to it and doesn't actually call it) | 18:49 |
| jonwil | tutorial-home-applet does not link to tablet-browser-view at all | 18:49 |
| Pali | I think tutorial-home-applet is useless | 18:51 |
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| Pali | I uninstalled it | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ohyeah! | 18:53 |
| jonwil | btw, if I wasn't flat broke, I would kick some money in the direction of the maemo hosting guys (per the "please donate" icon on t-m-o) | 18:55 |
| kerio | how am i supposed to store a battery again? | 18:59 |
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| kerio | a lithium battery ofc | 18:59 |
| kerio | well, lithium-ion | 18:59 |
| jonwil | so basically if we kept the DBUS interface between tablet-browser-daemon and browser-neteal the same, all we would need to worry about would be:1.Changing modest to talk to whatever new Gecko we bring in. 2.Handling nokia-maps (both the nokia-maps binary and the various plugins/addins it adds to the browser) | 18:59 |
| jonwil | and 3.Dealing with any API/ABI changes that break tablet-browser-mediaplayer-plugin, tablet-browser-default-plugin, adobe-flashplayer, libssoautologin and microb-geolocation. Obviously we also need to remain compatible with the HTML/CSS/etc used by rtcom-messaging-ui etc | 19:02 |
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| jonwil | Given that Flash works with fennec, I dont think we have too much to worry about for the NPAPI plugins | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: at 0°..10°C, charged to 50%..75% | 19:07 |
| kerio | so... fridge? | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 19:07 |
| kerio | it's going to be fun to explain to my parents | 19:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in a sealed bag, for keeping humidity out | 19:07 |
| jonwil | The issue would be more with the extenstions like libssoautologin and microb-geolocation that could have issues if the API/ABI have changed | 19:07 |
| kerio | ofc | 19:07 |
| jonwil | not that I know what libssoautologin is actually for | 19:08 |
| jonwil | or whether we need it or not | 19:08 |
| jonwil | microb-geolocation is important if people want to be able to use mobile websites that take your GPS coordinates | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sso is single sign-on | 19:08 |
| jonwil | ok | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nfc why you need a lib for that | 19:09 |
| jonwil | Its a browser extension actually | 19:09 |
| jonwil | libssoautologin that is | 19:09 |
| jonwil | I assume its there to allow the browser to automatically log into certain things | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia/maemo, yes | 19:09 |
| kerio | log into nokia stuff | 19:09 |
| jonwil | so by far the biggest thorn in our side would be nokia-maps... | 19:10 |
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| jonwil | exactly why it doesn't use browser-daemon and instead embeds its own copy of Gecko I dont know | 19:14 |
| kerio | because of the plugins, probably | 19:15 |
| freemangordon | romaxa: is "1086030672[40d5d0c0]: ###!!! ASSERTION: Using observer service off the main thread!: 'Error', file /home/maemo/workspace/thumb/tmp/embedlite/mozilla-central/xpcom/ds/nsObserverService.cpp, line 156" normal? | 19:16 |
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| freemangordon | the log is full of those | 19:16 |
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| romaxa | freemangordon: not super normal, but could work | 19:20 |
| romaxa | freemangordon: you can break in there and check where it is coming from | 19:20 |
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| kerio | how much is EDV1 again? | 19:26 |
| freemangordon | it works(i.e. OnRenderImage is called), I was just wondering | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 3248? | 19:29 |
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| kerio | DocScrutinizer05: i should try to hit that as low as possible, right? | 19:30 |
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| kerio | to make the calibration as accurate as possible | 19:31 |
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| kerio | heh, i just hit 6% capacity at 3.588V | 19:49 |
| kerio | either bq27k was really pessimistic, or this is a good battery | 19:49 |
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| ShadowJK | that means your previous batt had lower capacity | 19:59 |
| kerio | indeed | 19:59 |
| kerio | hm, it's taking ages to drop below 3636mV | 19:59 |
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| ShadowJK | I just picked a load level that I always use when running calib, "watch video at next highest brightness" | 20:00 |
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| ShadowJK | Because I figured knowing how long I can idle isn't entirely useful, better knowing how long it lasts with useful load | 20:01 |
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| kerio | and now the voltage is at 3633 with a 200mA load, and it's been there for a while | 20:02 |
| Sicelo | is it 'useful' to wait for 3248mV if EDV1 is already 1? | 20:02 |
| kerio | i assume that it's some kind of knee and the voltage will rapidly drop after it | 20:02 |
| ShadowJK | Sicelo; no | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; of course | 20:03 |
| kerio | Sicelo: EDV1 will get set below 3248, though | 20:03 |
| ShadowJK | kerio; http://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png | 20:03 |
| kerio | i see | 20:04 |
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| kerio | hehe, the capacity has been stuck at 6% for a *loooooooooooong* time now | 20:07 |
| ShadowJK | if it's too big a jump upwards, vdq goes to 0 and it wont learn | 20:09 |
| kerio | D: | 20:09 |
| kerio | then what | 20:09 |
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| kerio | well, VDQ is still set | 20:10 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: what am i supposed to do, then? | 20:12 |
| ShadowJK | you said it's still set? | 20:13 |
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| kerio | yep | 20:15 |
| kerio | i'm at 3.5V though | 20:15 |
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| futpib | heh, mugen is japanese for infinity | 20:29 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01/24/nokia_earnings_q4_2012/ | 20:30 |
| Aoyagi | Yeah, too bad it's not thanks to the mobile division. | 20:31 |
| Aoyagi | Or so I heard. | 20:31 |
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| kerio | yay, calibrated | 20:32 |
| kerio | 1398, apparently | 20:32 |
| kerio | it's probably more, though | 20:32 |
| kerio | isn't it | 20:32 |
| kerio | i was expecting more like 1600 :c | 20:33 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: do you have a graph for the charging? | 20:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | what charging? | 20:42 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: voltage/time while charging a bl-5j | 20:42 |
| kerio | kinda like http://enivax.net/jk/n900/volt.png , but charging | 20:42 |
| SpeedEvil | it's pretty much a standard lithium charging protocol | 20:42 |
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| kerio | btw, what's the reason for limiting the charge at 900mA? | 20:50 |
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| trekky | hi | 21:24 |
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| trekky | anyone using n900 for voip calling ? | 21:24 |
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| kerio | trekky: just ask your question or state your problem :) | 21:25 |
| kerio | pretty much anything that can be done with a n900 has been done by someone here | 21:25 |
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| trekky | in my case sip - starts to stotter after a few of minutes | 21:25 |
| kerio | on wifi? | 21:25 |
| trekky | this seems tobe a known problem - read it on some other forum | 21:26 |
| trekky | over wifi | 21:26 |
| Lava_Croft | http://ircimg.net/1357531142564.gif | 21:26 |
| kerio | well yeah, over | 21:26 |
| trekky | its fine with skype is ok | 21:26 |
| kerio | SIP is a little bit flakier, so issues that won't affect skype may affect it | 21:26 |
| trekky | i have my e71 at the same time - same server and never have issues | 21:26 |
| kerio | try to disable the wifi powersaving | 21:27 |
| kerio | (only do this to test, it'll drain your battery like hell) | 21:27 |
| kerio | also, don't use bluetooth and wifi together | 21:27 |
| trekky | i had a ping running during sip conversation and as soon it start stuttering | 21:28 |
| trekky | the ping response rate goes up and eventually times out | 21:28 |
| trekky | and after a few seconds it comes back | 21:28 |
| trekky | does not matter which wifi access point i use | 21:28 |
| trekky | this is an issue on orginal firmware, cssu test or thumb - all vanilla without extra software installed | 21:29 |
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| trekky | wonder where to look at to find out the source of problem or maybe tweak something to avoid it | 21:32 |
| futpib | maybe try over usb first | 21:32 |
| trekky | to see it is not the wifi driver ? | 21:33 |
| futpib | to sort of make sure if it is wifi-related problem | 21:33 |
| trekky | an idea ... | 21:33 |
| kerio | i was going to suggest mobile data | 21:33 |
| kerio | or bluetooth PAN | 21:33 |
| trekky | but seems i am allone here with that problem | 21:33 |
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| trekky | will check another network path then | 21:34 |
| kerio | trekky: IRC seems instant, but it's quite asynchronous :) | 21:35 |
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| trekky | anyway is DocScrutinizer05 anytime soon around ? | 21:51 |
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| kerio | trekky: you have to say his name three times | 21:55 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer, DocScrutinizer, DOCSCRUTINIZER! | 21:55 |
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| kerio | ~seen DocScrutinizer05 | 21:59 |
| kerio | infobot: ping | 22:00 |
| infobot | docscrutinizer05 is currently on #maemo (15h 56m 12s) #n9 (15h 56m 12s) #harmattan (15h 56m 12s) #meego (15h 56m 12s) #openmoko (15h 56m 12s) #maemo-ssu (15h 56m 12s) #infobot (15h 56m 12s) #openmoko-cdevel (15h 56m 12s). Has said a total of 132 messages. Is idling for 2h 30m 38s, last said: '3248?'. | 22:00 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:00 |
| kerio | k | 22:00 |
| trekky | tx - have not used irc for a loong time - some 10 years ago :) during university time | 22:01 |
| jacekowski | nokia has announced that there will be no more symbian phones | 22:03 |
| kerio | \o/ | 22:03 |
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| jacekowski | 808 is the last one | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | sigh | 22:04 |
| xes | sigh? | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I am in favour of more platforms in the marketplace | 22:04 |
| Sicelo | because they are now preparing a 38mpix Win-phone, i guess | 22:04 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a search running for smashed screen 808s on eBay | 22:05 |
| jacekowski | thing is, 38mpix in the phone is pointless | 22:05 |
| jacekowski | it's impossible to create a lens with enough resolution to make use of those pixels | 22:05 |
| jacekowski | lens that's small enough to fit in a phone | 22:06 |
| SpeedEvil | that is not quite true | 22:06 |
| jacekowski | and well, symbian is still better than android | 22:06 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, it's not 38mp | 22:06 |
| SpeedEvil | but it's >>10mp | 22:07 |
| Sicelo | jacekowski: +1 | 22:07 |
| Sicelo | for symbian.. | 22:07 |
| SpeedEvil | and the imaher is comparatively huge | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | dual core 1.2GHz galaxy nexus | 22:07 |
| SpeedEvil | imager | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | and it still lags quite often in random places | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | i've never had that happen on symbian | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | on hardware a lot slower | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i want some imatest results | 22:08 |
| SpeedEvil | see preview | 22:09 |
| SpeedEvil | dpreview | 22:09 |
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| jacekowski | yeah it looks like usable resolution is around 10-15mpix | 22:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Bayer makes true 38 a lie, anyway | 22:16 |
| jacekowski | well, that's the thing | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | does 38mpix mean 38M light sensitive elements | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | interpolated to 38m full pixels | 22:17 |
| jacekowski | or 38m x4 (RGGB) elements? | 22:17 |
| SpeedEvil | nobody uses the latter | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | alas | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | well | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | maybe 3 CCD cameras do | 22:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | bit... | 22:18 |
| SpeedEvil | but | 22:18 |
| jacekowski | nobody uses what? | 22:19 |
| jacekowski | everything uses RGGB filters | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | not quite | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | there are some cmy? ones | 22:19 |
| jacekowski | well, GRGB | 22:20 |
| futpib | maybe it is possible to fit in some hacky lens like fresnel | 22:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean, nobody calls four pixels one, if they can get away with it | 22:20 |
| futpib | and then clever software corrects the image | 22:20 |
| jacekowski | futpib: they do fit microlenses on sensors | 22:20 |
| jacekowski | futpib: to gather slightly more light | 22:20 |
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| Estel_ | ShadowJK, I've tested stripe/stride settings you've recommended, + added things like disabled barriers, journal_async_commit, and ensuring, that extents and orlov is used. I've gone soo far, that I've actually not only used it for ED partition, but reformatted my /home/ this way too (dev/mmcblk0p2) | 23:26 |
| Estel_ | For sure it doesn't work worse than before, and I got impression, that device is much snappier, especially during I/O heavy operations. | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | Yet, while I'm quite resistant to placebo effect, I would still like to measure it more scientificaly | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | any idea, how one could test benefits of this specific changes? (raid-like stripes and strides, most likely, as journal_async_commit is hard to measure, for performance gain...) | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | ? | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | btw, of course, I've modified Maemo's boot options to mount home the way it actually benefits from such changes (and don't enable barriers) | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | same for backupmenu and it's way of reformatting /dev/mmcblk0p2, to ensure persistency of tweaked mkfs options (and even mounting for recovering backups, to gain from extents and orlov at time of file creation) | 23:30 |
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| Estel_ | If you have any idea how to measure benefits (to my understanding, simple bulk read/write is quite not what it's all about), I'll be grateful - I would like to present some comparisions | 23:32 |
| kerio | Estel_: i thought those options were stored in the file system, and were honoured by the ext4 driver | 23:32 |
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| Estel_ | extent and orlov probably yes, but I've added it to mount options just to be sure (no idea how outdated maemo's mount is) | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | journal_async_commit need mount option for sure | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | stripe and stride should be honored | 23:34 |
| Estel_ | (although there is mount option for stripe, too - no idea how it's related to partitioner stripe) | 23:35 |
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| mickname | https://developer.spotify.com/blog/2013/01/22/libspotify-12-hardfloat-beta/ | 23:53 |
| mickname | oh, nevermind, libspotify is premium only | 23:54 |
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