IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-11-29

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NeutrinoPowerhave anyone a recommendation for a podcast-player?00:17
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DocScrutinizer05NeutrinoPower: you know package interface?00:53
NeutrinoPowerawesome :)00:54
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NeutrinoPowerah, thank you00:54
DocScrutinizer05gpodder gPodder Podcast Client00:55
DocScrutinizer05panucci Panucci resuming audiobook and podcast player00:55
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tadzikis it that hard to get a new N900 as tmo seems to indicate?01:17
tadzikI checked a few days ago and there was like 5 auctions of new N900s with warranties on Polish eBay equivalent01:17
SpeedEvilnew old stock is uncommon01:17
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DocScrutinizer05tadzik: beware of hongkong stuff, it's refurbished at best01:22
DocScrutinizer05there are occasional display-N900 without original packaging but usually mint condition, for 180..250EUR01:24
DocScrutinizer05I bought 2 of them, both OK01:24
SpeedEvilalso, warranty is extremely unlikely to be with Nokia01:26
SpeedEviland if it is, is almost meaningless01:26
DocScrutinizer05but in EU you got 6 month seller's waranty01:26
SpeedEvilwell, yes.01:27
SpeedEvilif they are a legit business01:27
DocScrutinizer05so if they send you a lemon, you send it back01:27
DocScrutinizer05yep, of course01:27
SpeedEvildistance selling rules are also good01:28
DocScrutinizer05call them by phone, google their addr01:28
tadzikI got a year of warranty with mine, I guess it's gone now that I've fixed it myself01:28
Drathirtadzik: new or only look like new? the best is one who want sell new for 1.2k pln...01:32
tadziknew what?01:32
Drathirtadzik: n900 i mean01:32
tadzikwell, mine was sold as new. It looked new and smelled new too :)01:33
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DocScrutinizer05alas it seems hard to order to abroad from those Polish sellers01:49
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DocScrutinizer05my 2 N900 were origin Duesseldorf, and that's been fine for me being German customer01:50
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mcamaretdoes anyone know whether telepathy-theonering is still functional?04:45
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wmarone_does anyone have a link to a Qt SDK installer for Linux with a Maemo 5 target?06:19
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Jay_BEEblah... it appears that droppin my N900 has totally obliterated by eMMC as I do not see /dev/mmcblkp1 nor /dev/mmcblkp207:07
RST38heMMC ran away, look under furniture.07:08
Jay_BEEi tried to no avail... she's not coming back07:08
Jay_BEEfor what it's worth i can mount maemo root07:09
SpeedEvilit is in principle possible to set it up to use SD07:15
SpeedEvilbut that's tricky07:15
SpeedEvilsimilarly, reflowing the emmc can reportedly help07:15
DocScrutinizer05eMMC chip footprint is quite unfortunate07:16
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DocScrutinizer05though I first would try to reformat and partition it07:20
DocScrutinizer05btw there is07:22
DocScrutinizer05brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179,  8 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk007:22
DocScrutinizer05brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179,  9 1970-01-01 01:00 /dev/mmcblk0p107:22
DocScrutinizer05not /dev/mmcblkp107:22
DocScrutinizer05depending on uSD present or not, I guess it as well might be minor:0 instead of minor:807:24
DocScrutinizer05btw in /sys you still see original names of mmc:07:36
DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc1/slot_name07:36
DocScrutinizer05cat /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc0/cover_switch07:37
DocScrutinizer05Jay_BEE: I'd first of all check dmesg07:45
Jay_BEEi can check that via rescueOS?07:45
DocScrutinizer05well, you could try what's in there when you try to mount mmc07:46
DocScrutinizer05also /sys/class/mmc_host/mmc?/* should give some info, if it exists at all07:47
DocScrutinizer05kernel should probe for mmc, even if it doesn't mount the device07:47
DocScrutinizer05and when it probes mmc, it shall display diagnostic output of that process in dmesg07:48
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DocScrutinizer05modprobe -r mmc_block; modprobe mmc_block07:52
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Jay_BEEnothing... i don't even see a dmesg file07:59
Jay_BEEI only see /var/run07:59
DocScrutinizer05dmesg is a command07:59
DocScrutinizer05sth like08:01
Jay_BEEa bunch of stuff scrolled by.... can't scroll back in rescueOS08:01
DocScrutinizer05[    7.505737] mmc1: new high speed MMC card at address 000108:01
DocScrutinizer05[    7.508178] mmcblk1: mmc1:0001 MMC32G 29.8 GiB08:01
DocScrutinizer05[    7.508483]  mmcblk1: p1 p2 p308:01
DocScrutinizer05use grep08:01
DocScrutinizer05dmesg|grep mmc08:02
Jay_BEEI don't see a key for | , in busybox I press the arrow followed by the Sym key to select the |08:03
kerioJay_BEE: do you have a working usb port?08:03
Jay_BEEyes i do08:04
Jay_BEEit's connected to my win xp lappy as we type08:04
keriouse usb networking to get a real shell08:04
kerioah crap, win xp08:05
DocScrutinizer05nin101 for sure mapped stuff like | to some fn+key08:05
kerioyeah, i think it's fn+[zxc]08:05
Jay_BEEzxc looks like 3 keys to me08:06
DocScrutinizer05I usually hold FN and type all the char keys until I found the right one, then enter or ^C and retype08:06
keriointuitive interfaces!08:06
kerioJay_BEE: even with a nonexistent eMMC, maemo is still *kinda* usable08:09
kerioif you're willing to tinker a lot08:09
kerioand have a uSD that you'll never be able to remove08:09
Jay_BEEall I want to do is be able to copy my pictures to a media card08:10
DocScrutinizer05forget it08:10
keriono emmc = no pics08:10
Jay_BEEoh ok... my job is done here then.08:10
* Jay_BEE sits in a corner and cries08:10
DocScrutinizer05even if you could recover eMMC, it would be by reformating and partitioning it08:11
kerioddrecover and then an undeleter08:11
Jay_BEEi'm sending her back for a replacement08:11
DocScrutinizer05might actually work08:11
kerioJay_BEE: figure out if the emmc is at least accessible from rescueos08:11
DocScrutinizer05if partition table got nuked, it might even suffice to repartition it, to recover MyDocs08:12
Jay_BEEkerio: executing resulted in some error on the device and xp08:12
DocScrutinizer05screw mass storage08:13
DocScrutinizer05that's way too dull a sword for this problem08:13 works and I can see stuff under /mnt/maemo08:14
DocScrutinizer05well, I almost expected that08:14
DocScrutinizer05honestly, I got another 5 min to help. Up to you if you wanna tell us about mounting NAND, or rather do analysis of dmesg08:15
kerioJay_BEE: you don't need the maemo root, you need the emmc08:16
Jay_BEEls /dev/mmc* only displays mmcblk0 and mmcblk0p108:16
kerioJay_BEE: that's the uSD then08:16
DocScrutinizer05you got a uSD inserted?08:17
DocScrutinizer05then kerio is right about that08:17
keriomy final diagnosis is that the emmc is thoroughly fucked08:17
DocScrutinizer05still no reason to ignore dmesg diagnostic08:17
keriodata = very no08:17
* Jay_BEE agrees with kerio08:17
keriobut you could still bring up a full fremantle system! :D08:17
DocScrutinizer05I agree with me that I have sth else on my schedule now08:18
Jay_BEEi can send her back and get another n90008:18
kerioyep, i'm kinda going too08:18
Jay_BEEi was just hoping to recover some pictures and maybe the contacts but no worries at this point08:18
Jay_BEEthx for the help08:18
DocScrutinizer05I gave advice where to find the ultimate info (dmesg) and I helped how to display it, and how to find the key08:18
DocScrutinizer05could've saved my time08:19
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r00t|d430$ wget
r00t|d430Connecting to (||:443... connected.09:09
r00t|d430HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 403 Forbidden09:09
r00t|d430what's this retardedness?09:09
kerior00t|d430: uses auth09:10
freemangordon_r00t|d430: you need to supply user and password. aslo you have to do wget on the device09:10
kerioand it also checks the... user agent? idk09:10
r00t|d430this is retarded?09:10
keriofreemangordon_: the last thing makes no sense whatsoever09:10
kerior00t|d430: yep09:10
r00t|d430i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it09:10
freemangordon_kerio: it makes, because of the keys09:10
keriofreemangordon_: wget doesn't necessarily know about them09:11
kerio...hold on, which keys?09:11
r00t|d430also: 403 does not mean auth required, that would be another status code09:11
r00t|d430so which user-agent do i need to spoof?09:11
freemangordon_r00t|d430: you need to do ^^^09:11
keriofreemangordon_: he doesn't have a working n90009:12
freemangordon_or ask someone else to so it for you09:12
freemangordon_kerio: understood, but it is not me that made it that way09:12
r00t|d430freemangordon_: there server does not ask for auth, so no use supplying any...09:13
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freemangordon_r00t|d430: as you wish09:13
keriofreemangordon_: still forbidden for me09:13
r00t|d430freemangordon_: and what's the point in doing wget on the device? the server only sees the U-A09:13
keriowget from the device09:13
freemangordon_kerio: disable certificate valdation09:13
r00t|d430freemangordon_: this is also net a certificate error09:13
keriofreemangordon_: not a cert error09:14
freemangordon_kerio: user user@pass from /etc/apt/auth09:14
kerioi just used apt09:14 i have no way to send it to r00t|d430 though09:14
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freemangordon_kerio: some of the irc clients support file transfer09:15
r00t|d430kerio: could you apt-get install --reinstall --download-only osso-suw-l10n-dadk osso-suw-l10n-dede osso-suw-l10n-engb osso-suw-l10n-enus osso-suw-l10n-eses osso-suw-l10n-esmx osso-suw-l10n-fifi osso-suw-l10n-frca osso-suw-l10n-frfr osso-suw-l10n-itit osso-suw-l10n-ruru osso-suw-l10n-svse osso-suw-l10n-nono osso-suw-l10n-nlnl osso-suw-l10n-ptpt osso-suw-l10n-plpl osso-suw-l10n-mr0 osso-startup-wizard09:15
r00t|d430kerio: and send me the packages from the cache?09:15
kerior00t|d430: i'm with my n900 only right now09:16
kerioso i'll leave that to someone with an actual keyboard :)09:16
freemangordon_r00t|d430: do you have scratchbox?09:17
r00t|d430kerio: you can just do: rsync /var/cache/apt/archives
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r00t|d430ok, i'll just buy a windows mobile phone later today09:22
r00t|d430if nokia "linux" is that retarded09:23
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kerior00t|d430: cool story bro09:24
freemangordon_That will be a wise move. And yes, linux is that retarded :)09:24
kerios/linux/nokia/ actually09:24
freemangordon_r00t|d430: BTW why did you remove those packages?09:24
keriootoh, it's a non-free, non-redistributable component09:25
r00t|d430freemangordon_: vi____ said it was ok!09:25
keriovi____ says a lot of things09:25
r00t|d430so what's the credentials to use?09:25
freemangordon_r00t|d430: hold on09:26
r00t|d430freemangordon_: wget --auth-no-challenge https://<>:<>
r00t|d430works, on my notebook09:28
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freemangordon_well, then I am wrong re certificate09:28
kerior00t|d430: don't you also have to disable the ssl verification?09:29
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r00t|d430freemangordon_: where would one get that user/password, other than by running strings on /usr/bin/* ?09:30
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freemangordon_cat /etc/apt/auth09:30
r00t|d430could've done that myself from backupmenu09:31
r00t|d430packages reinstalled, let's see if it boots again09:33
freemangordon_<r00t|d430> i removed a package and phone stopped booting, i just want to reinstall it09:34
freemangordon_how am I supposed to know you have access to fs judjung from ^^^?09:34
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r00t|d430freemangordon_: if i can install packages, i obviously have fs access09:35
r00t|d430freemangordon_: i booted backupmenu shell, mounted root and opt, chrooted into it09:35
r00t|d430it's still hanging... so must be something else09:35
r00t|d430but thanks, btw09:36
freemangordon_not so obvious, you can extract and copy09:36
freemangordon_instead of dpkg -i09:36
r00t|d430one can even apt-get after stuffing the files into the cache09:36
freemangordon_for example you may have booted nemo and mounted rootfs09:37
freemangordon_so thing that are obvious to you because you see them, are not so obvious if at all to those hanging on IRC09:38
freemangordon_r00t|d430: check what breaks in syslog09:38
r00t|d430will do after i am out of obvious changes to revert09:40
r00t|home<vi____> To replace startup wizard (SUW) edit /etc/X11/Xsession.d/30osso_startup_wizard09:40
r00t|homejust putting 'exit' in there did not work09:40
freemangordon_r00t|home: I still fail to see the reason for removing all those packages09:42
r00t|d430it's just startup wizard and it's language files09:42
r00t|homewell, getting rid of it is not as easy as vi____ said, it seems...09:49
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r00t|n900the problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session...10:08
tadzikdoes anyone know if there's a reason to receive bluetooth files without pairing with the other device?10:10
DocScrutinizer05r00t|n900: LOL10:10
tadzikevery time someone sends me stuff n900 rejects it, until I explicitely pair it up with the sender's device10:10
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DocScrutinizer05r00t|n900: what we learnt from that? ;-D10:11
tadzikoh, I used this trick on the university so many times10:11
tadzikwhenever someone left the screen unlocked, echo "echo <Random swear word>; exit" >> ~/.bashrc10:12
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: that r00t|n900 will buy a windoze phone later today. Aah, nokia linux suck, too :P10:12
DocScrutinizer05I'd suggest you learn that a hideme(){ ... ... ... } (or a if false; then ... ... ... fi;) is better than a exit10:14
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r00t|n900freemangordon: the reason i will buy a windows phone is that maemo package repos are password protected10:21
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r00t|n900DocScrutinizer05: the real problem is that the file has a shebang for no good reason10:23
DocScrutinizer05r00t|n900: you think windows "repos" are free for jeti and breti?10:23
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r00t|n900DocScrutinizer05: can't be much worse than maemo, especially when i'm being told that i can only download packages to the device directly for inexplicable reasons10:24
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DocScrutinizer05I think that's called ssl10:25
DocScrutinizer05and in former times it actually been correct that you needed either the cert on N900 or a token in SB, to download stuff. Seems sth changed though, since I didn't install that token to my SB prior to installing all the stuff10:27
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DocScrutinizer05the download URLs this graphical installer used were rather weird though10:28
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r00t|n900DocScrutinizer05: then the answer would be, i have to copy the client-cert from the device first - but i'd be upgrading to windows anyway10:29
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freemangordonr00t|d430: "upgrading"?10:31
DocScrutinizer05you had to, 3 years ago. You don't have to nowadays it seems10:31
DocScrutinizer05and good morning and good night10:31
infobotrumour has it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
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DocScrutinizer05from SB-install: >>10:44
DocScrutinizer05***NOKIA BINARIES***10:44
DocScrutinizer05In order to obtain Nokia-closed binaries, visit10:44
DocScrutinizer05 to accept the End User10:44
DocScrutinizer05License Agreement. You will be given a token to access the Nokia10:44
DocScrutinizer05binaries repository with further instructions.10:44
vi____ freemangordon_: r00t|home: I still fail to see the reason for removing all those packages10:45
vi____freemangordon: The point of getting rid of SUW is it is a massive pain in the dick to have to swipe out the time and date after each hard reboot.10:46
DocScrutinizer05that's no reason to get rid of the packages10:46
vi____DocScrutinizer05: what packag in particular?10:47
r00t|d430vi____: you broke my phone, i'll sue for damages!10:47
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vi____r00t|d430: You ended up in a bott loop?10:47
vi____fffs, my typing.10:48
r00t|d430vi____: see above10:48
* vi____ reading10:49
DocScrutinizer05tbh I'd have renamed the greeter binary and replaced it with a (empty) script10:49
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vi____he problem was: the session script i edited had a shebang on top, which had me assuming it's being executed... but it's being sourced, and putting 'exit' in there exits the session...10:52
vi____Well that was crazy.10:52
vi____All you had to do was comment out the line about /usr/sbi/osso-startup-wizard10:53
vi____Or whatever it is called.10:53
r00t|d430iirc i even told you i put exit there, and you didn't warn me!!11110:53
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r00t|d430well, the rest of the script is pointless too... deleting the whole script would be the best solution10:53
vi____r00t|d430: I concour.10:53
vi____Have you fixed it?10:53
vi____How can I assist you?10:53
r00t|d430how do i deleted script?10:55
r00t|d430i fixed it10:55
vi____do you have backupmenu?10:55
r00t|d430just that i initially thought it was caused by removing the package, and in the process of reinstalling it had to find out how retarded maemo repos are10:56
vi____r00t|d430: So all you have to do is edit/delete that file.10:56
vi____Do you have backupmenu?10:56
r00t|d430i already fixed it...10:57
r00t|d430have backupmenu, even mounted the maemo fs and chrooted into it to install packages10:57
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DocScrutinizer05r00t|d430: maemo repos are not retarded. Not doing any protection against download by non-n900-owners, while asking for IMEI on downloading fiasco images, THAT would be really retarded10:58
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vi____Is the meego wiki going to be included in the great backup of 2012?11:00
DocScrutinizer05the non-free binaries include stuff that Nokia licenced for distribution on N900 only. They'd face severe problems with (C)-holders of that stuff if they would indiscriminately share via internet11:01
DocScrutinizer05indeed OMG why i'm wasting my time to explain that stuff to you11:04
DocScrutinizer05go get your windows phone, please!11:05
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HurrianDocScrutinizer05, b-b-but some packages are only available on-device11:41
Hurrianyou still can't build a complete Fremantle by using rootstock, for example11:41
HurrianIMO, there should be work on cleaning the Fremantle fiasco images, such as removing Flash, the facebook/foreca/DTG etc. installers and cherry.11:42
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vi____Hurrian: Dem is troll words Hurrian12:07
Hurrianvi____, would that be more prone to licensing issues?12:08
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vi____I agree with you, however creating 'alternative' rootfs images is apparently frowned upon.  To the point that you will be actively moderated if tell anyone about one you have made.12:09
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vi____BRB COFFEE12:13
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vi____It seems a reset ACTUALLY sets the date to year 2000.12:18
vi____It is only SUW that thinks it is 2009!12:19
vi____Stupid SUW!12:19
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vi____aka, 'the dick puncher'.12:22
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vi____Hurrian: Does the n9 have dos2unix command?12:59
Hurrianvi____, it has unix2dos (with a switch it does the reverse), but I'm running busybox-power13:00
vi____Do you know if it has that on the n9 stock busybox?13:00
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Hurrianvi____, no clue, lemme check the diverted binary13:01
vi____cheers buddy13:01
Hurrian: /bin/busybox.distrib dos2unix: dos2unix: applet not found13:02
HurrianI guess not.13:02
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vi____what about tr?13:03
vi____hurrian ^13:03
HurrianUsage: tr [-cds] STRING1 [STRING2]13:04
vi____I was just about to post an adblock script for the N9 on tmo then thought 'wait, does the n9 even have therse commands'?13:05
Hurrianvi____, too lazy to pull out that fancy N950 you got?13:05
vi____Hurrian: heh.13:05
Hurrianor too annoyed?13:05
vi____I do not have it anymore.13:05
vi____Do not worry, I am not a total asswipe.  I sent it to a good home.13:05
vi____At no personal profit.13:06
Hurrianah. well, considering how much you dislike Harmattan's workings, it's understandable13:06
vi____Hurrian: Not so much that.  I could not use it.13:06
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HurrianUse it as you did with Fremantle? It's annoying for me too.13:07
vi____As there are no spare parts, I could not see it lasting me more than a couple of months as a main device.13:07
vi____If I am not using it as a main device, it is not worth my time.13:07
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Hurrianah. concerned about damaging the screen/screen damaging itself, then?13:07
vi____correct, why invest effort into making an uttterly obsolete device my main device when it will only fail very shortly.13:08
vi____I am to old to hang onto old hardware for sentimental reasons.13:09
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Hurrianvi____, "why invest effort?" : for masturbation to yourself for getting a rare device even marked not for sale13:09
Hurriancertain tmo-ers are certainly in it for that13:09
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Lava_CroftDo I sense some envy13:10
vi____I posessed it.13:10
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vi____I felt the brush of its svelt aluminium body against mine.13:10
vi____It was beautyful.13:10
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infobotvi____ meant: It was beautiful.13:11
vi____However life is to short.13:11
HurrianLava_Croft: A little. But I am contented with my N9, and I don't think a keyboard and being OCD about it's non-gorilla glass failing screen would've enhanced my experience.13:11
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vi____Harmattan is not designed for keyboards.13:11
Lava_CroftIt's certainly not a 'faster N900'13:11
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vi____not even close.13:11
vi____it is like an n900 ubermensch, castrated.13:12
Hurrianvi____, in the sense that it'll never reproduce?13:13
vi____Hurrian: do you want to test my hosts file adblock 'script' on your n9 before I paste it on TMO?13:13
vi____wget -O ~/hosts && echo " rm696 localhost" > /etc/hosts && cat ~/hosts | tr -d '^m'  >> /etc/hosts && cat /etc/hosts;13:13
Hurrianvi____, I'll have to pass, I stay away from system-wide host blocking.13:13
vi____in the sense it has so much potential wasted on that silly swipe interface.13:14
vi____Hurrian what is the contents of your hosts file?13:15
Hurrianvi____, kotoko localhost13:17
Hurriankotoko being my manually set hostname, IIRC it's RM696 stock13:18
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vi____busybox cat command is stripping windows ^M newline characters?13:29
vi____tr cannot 'see' ^M?13:36
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vi____Hurrian: Does stock n9 busybox come with strings command?13:41
jon_yI thought strings is from binutils13:42
Hurrianvi____, apparently not13:42
vi____GOddamn fuck busy box crippled ass shit.13:42
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vi____tr -d "\015"13:44
jon_ytry xxd?13:44
vi____^ the only way on stock barfbox to strip ^M from a 'dows file.13:44
jon_yI wonder when busybox will come with to boot win9513:45
jon_yor using sed13:45
vi____Or somehow just replace all that busyboxbullshit with REAL gnu tools.13:45
jon_ywhat does the N9 require busybox for?13:47
jon_ycan't real stuff just replace it?13:47
vi____Knowing nokia, there will be some specific kludge in the boot process that will depend on a particular bug in a particular version of a particular tool in a particular in house compile of a specific busybox binary.13:49
vi____am I missing something?13:58
vi____chmod 000 myfile13:58
vi____means NO ONE has permission to even read the file.13:59
vi____Yet on the n900, I can still echo values to it as root.13:59
vi____try it.13:59
jaskaroot in general can just ignore discretionary access control13:59
vi____Well that is fucking dumb.14:00
fizzieThe thing that I always do for removing CRs, tr -d '\r', does seem to work just fine with the busybox tr on my N900.14:07
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jon_yvi____: root is a super user14:23
jon_yit can do whatever it wants14:23
jon_ywhich is why using it for everyday stuff is discouraged14:24
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keriovi____: root is chuck norris17:48
keriodo you think that unix perms would stop chuck norris?17:48
kerioi think that the only way it could be doable would be with a readonly bind mount on itself17:49
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keriomaybe not, actually17:50
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felipecminicom /tty/ACM0 should work... right?18:05
felipecer, /dev/ttyACM018:05
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vi____kerio: what was your magic automatic calibration script?18:06
vi____I need to test my new 2300mAh bl-5j.18:08
vi____Before I flame the seller as a scammer.18:09
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cjdaviesright, sat here in a hotel in s'Hertogenbosch with a 3G SIM that I bought at the airport18:12
vi____south africa?18:13
cjdavieswhat is the easiest way to use the N900's Internet connection on my laptop?18:13
cjdaviesvi____: Netherlands...18:13
vi____Afrikaans kinda looks the same.18:13
mgedmincjdavies, usb cable18:13
T_Xcjdavies: oh - I' m currently trying something similar and wanted to ask about that18:13
vi____There is a program in the repos called hotspot.18:13
mgedminit should show up as a regular USB 3G modem18:14
cjdaviesyup, I found hotspot but it requires installing a custom kernel18:14
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vi____either use that or use the n900 as a dial up modem.18:14
mgedmin(if you choose the right option in the menu on the N900 itself)18:14
cjdaviesanybody know if the usb works in linux?18:14
vi____do you mean use USB dial up network on linux?18:14
cjdaviesmy E6 has something similar with usb but I only ever got it to work in windows18:14
felipecit used to work for me18:14
vi____If so, yes.18:14
vi____wvdial /dev/ttyACM018:15
felipecI'm having problems right now: ttyACM0<*1>: ATQ0 V1 E1 -- and failed too at 115200, giving up.18:15
mgedmin(ubuntu, network manager: just plug in and use)18:15
T_Xcjdavies: oh, no, had to read again. I'm trying the reverse. I want to use my laptops internet connection for my n90018:15
mgedminthere were some bugs and regressions that eventually got fixed, iirc18:15
cjdaviesah well, I'll fire up the laptop & see18:15
vi____cjdavies: what distro?18:15
vi____I do not know arch.18:15
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vi____But I assume you at least have wvdial.18:16
cjdaviesworst case scenario, I've got a windows xp vm ;)18:16
felipecyeah, Arch has wvdial, and NetworkManager18:16
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cjdavieswtypical, I'm using wicd18:18
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kerioT_X: usb networking?18:18
keriovi____: hold on a sec18:18
T_Xhm, I've setup the ip addresses and routes manuall on usb0. and the internet connection for the n900 seems to work fine, pinging internet addresses is fine. but it still shows a "network error" message for the voip accounts18:18
T_Xkerio: yes18:18
kerioT_X: have you installed libicd-network-null?18:18
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cjdaviesso when I plug the n900 in I get the choice between mass storage & pc suite, no use phone as modem option18:19
vi____cjdavies: pcsuite mode18:19
vi____The n900 needs the g_nokia module loaded.18:20
vi____(which is what pcsuite mode does)18:20
cjdavieswhich I don't have...18:20
vi____You do not have what?18:20
T_Xkerio: no, I haven't. let me check what it is supposed to do18:20
kerioT_X: it makes a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog18:21
cjdaviesyou mean the laptop needs to have g_nokia loaded?18:21
vi____cjdavies: No, the n900 needs g_nokia loaded.  g_nokia is loaded automatically when you select 'pc-suite mode'.18:21
vi____kerio: cheers mate.18:22
cjdaviesso how does one go about using the n900 in pc suite mode as a modem in linux?18:22
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cjdaviesor should I just fire up the xp vm?18:22
freemangordonvi____: are you sure? as I would load g_ether on n900, install linux ethernet RNDIS adapter and do an ICS18:22
keriocjdavies: i'd use usb networking18:23
kerioyou have to do things "manually", though18:23
freemangordonkerio: ^^^18:23
T_Xkerio: ah - okay, thanks, that might work better than connecting to wifi and deleting its default route18:23
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cjdaviessounds like it'll be quicker to just do it the vm way18:23
vi____T_X you need network null so you can trick ICD (the network manager)  into believing you are connected to the net. Because you have connected it via the backend, n900 appz think you are actually disconnected(because ICD did not do the connecting).  You understand?18:23
keriocjdavies: hahahahahaha18:24
vi____cjdavies: just plug in the usb, select pc-suite mode.18:24
kerioyou've never tried to install ovi suite on a windows pc, have you18:24
vi____cjdavies: It is all you have to do.18:24
cjdaviesvi____: ... obviously it's not all you need to do in linux18:24
vi____freemangordon: possibly, I forget.  I should not have said, I seem to have confused the issue.18:24
cjdavieswindows maybe18:24
cjdavieshence the vm I am starting18:24
vi____1. plug in usb18:25
vi____2. select pc-suite mode.18:25
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vi____3. Use the dialer of your choice.18:25
keriooh right, there's that too18:25
cjdaviesyes, but I don't neccessarily have a dialer18:25
cjdaviesnor can I get one... obviously18:25
keriowhich distro are you using?18:25
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freemangordoncjdavies: new dial-up connection18:26
vi____but you are on the net RIGHT NOW.18:26
vi____arch must have SOMETHING built in.18:26
freemangordongnome ppp dialer18:26
freemangordonor something18:26
vi____I do not believe arch does not come with some kind of dialer.18:27
cjdavieskay, wvdial is there18:27
cjdaviescrash course in wvdial kthnx ;P18:28
vi____dmesg, look to see what tty the n900 is on18:28
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vi____probably /dev/ttyACM018:28
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vi____well you need to disconnect from the net in order to use wvdial18:29
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vi____wvdial /etc/wvdial.conf18:29
vi____wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf18:30
vi____^do that to create your .conf file18:30
cjdaviesyou me disconnect the phone's internet?18:30
vi____not yet18:30
vi____plug in phone.18:30
vi____choose pcsuite mode18:30
vi____type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial18:30
kerioyou don't necessarily have to, i think18:30
vi____oh well18:31
cjdaviesdone, but that wvdial command fails18:31
vi____type in wvdialconf /etc/wvdial.conf18:31
vi____once you have run wvdialconf18:31
cjdaviesshit it did stuff18:31
vi____you then need to disconnect the phone from the net, then type18:31
vi____wvdial /dev/ttyACM018:32
vi____assuming your phone is on ttyACM018:32
vi____and it should work.18:32
T_Xvi___: well, in my case ICD did make a connection. I simply replaced the wifi default route with a default route via usb0. but that didn't seem to work though. I've installed libicd-network-null now. how do I select this dummy connection?18:32
cjdavieshm, I should probably kill wicd/networkmanager/whatever else?18:32
keriocjdavies: so you *do* have something like that18:33
vi____cjdavies: what?18:33
cjdavieswicd is like networkmanager18:33
vi____on the n900 1. connect phone. 2. select pcsuite mode. 3. wvdial /dev/ttyACM018:33
cjdaviesgui to wpasupplicant essentially18:33
vi____IS ALL YOU HAVE TO DO.18:33
vi____wpasupplicant?? wtf are you talking about?18:34
cjdaviesnot if there is a daemon like wicd controlling the entire networking system...18:34
vi____I assume you mean on arch, not the n900.18:34
kerioT_X: hm, do you see a "dummy connection" in the Internet Connection dialog?18:34
* mgedmin laughs at people who do not use network manager18:34
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''18:35
keriomgedmin: networkmanager is definetely poettering18:35
tadziklaughs... through tears?18:35
cjdaviesmy point is if I try to wvdial while wicd/networkmanager think they are in control, bad things may happen18:35
vi____cjdavies: perhaps.18:35
cjdaviesanyway, going to disconnect & see what happens18:35
cjdaviesback in a few minutes18:35
T_Xkerio: hm, don't think so, I only see the wifi connections in my neighborhood18:35
vi____cjdavies: There is an arch wiki page on wvdial.18:35
vi____if you search for archwiki wvdial you will find it.18:35
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vi____nice clear instructions.18:35
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kerioT_X: hold on, there's some gconftool magic to do18:39
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cjdavieswvdial failed because the conf doesn't have the username/password18:39
cjdaviesfor some reason I can't access the wiki page18:39
cjdaviessome https error18:40
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kerioT_X: dbus-send --type=method_call --system /com/nokia/icd string:DUMMY uint32:018:40
cjdavies'unable to complete secure transaction'18:40
* cjdavies opens it on the server using lynx18:40
vi____cjdavies: then you are going to have to edit /etc/wvdial.conf18:41
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vi____and add the user name and password.18:41
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vi____look up the provider for the sim card you have just bought.  The information is usually freely available.18:41
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cjdaviesthe apnsettings for the provider say to leave user/pass blank18:42
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cjdaviesthey provide the apn uri18:42
cjdaviesbut no user/pass18:43
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cjdaviesis the phone number the number of the actual sim?18:43
vi____if there is no user password, then leave them blank18:44
vi____or use user:password.18:44
cjdaviesbut the phone number?18:45
vi____you have to disconnect the n900 from the net before you use wvdial.18:45
vi____I do not know about the phone number.18:45
vi____wvdial usually just works by magic.18:45
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cjdaviesdoesn't allow blank user/password18:47
cjdaviesscrew it, windows18:47
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cjdavieseven windows didn't work D:18:51
cjdavieswill have to switch to E6 later tonight & try that18:52
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cjdaviesbut now time for a meeting18:52
felipecanybody using Nokia N9 as USB modem with a recent kernel?18:53
mgedminI don't remember18:53
mgedminI think I did18:53
mgedminno -- I used the N9 as a wifi hotspot18:53
mgedminI hate cables18:53
mgedminI could try if you want, assuming 3.5 is recent enough kernel for you18:53
felipecmgedmin: yeah, that's recent :)18:54
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felipecI've tried everything, I think it just doesn't work18:56
mgedminit tells me it connected to GSM, it shows me the IMEI18:56
mgedminbut the settings button is greyed out18:56
mgedminmy operator name is not shown18:56
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felipecmgedmin: NetworkManager?18:57
mgedminyeah, in gnome-shell18:57
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felipecmgedmin: yeah, I tried minicom /dev/ttyACM018:57
felipecdoesn't even respond18:57
T_Xyaiy, that seems to have worked now. thanks kerio, thanks vi____!18:58
mgedminsudo screen /dev/ttyACM018:58
mgedminat<enter> -> I get OK18:58
vi____cjdavies: If you look at the gprs access point on the n900, you will see the settings.18:58
tadzikbtw, what is the reason that none of the mobile hotspots for n900 have wpa2 available?18:59
felipecmgedmin: hmm, which kernel?19:00
keriotadzik: no hostap19:01
kerioand ad-hoc wifi only supports wep19:01
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mgedminLinux platonas 3.5.0-18-generic #29-Ubuntu SMP Fri Oct 19 10:26:51 UTC 2012 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux19:01
tadzikkerio: is that a wifi chip fault, or the driver?19:02
keriotadzik: yes19:02
felipecmgedmin: thx19:02
tadzikis that the driver's fault?19:02
kerioi don't know, i think it's the chip19:02
vi____The best thing to do is no encryption and mac address white listing.19:03
keriovi____: the best thing to do is usb networking19:03
vi____kerio: oh yeah, that is better.19:03
felipecusb networking is quite difficult19:03
keriovi____: second best is... idk, bluetooth PAN19:04
keriothe range is awful, though19:04
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myname24Can the digitizer of N900 malfunction because of software installed or overclocking ?19:40
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jacekowskithough overclocking related fault is unlikely19:50
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myname24Last month i have been in my village and weather was cold . It may have been moisture20:10
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myname24But yesterday it worked for a while after rice and sun therapy and I decided to revert to stock speed and disable smart reflex . Now it work flawlessly :D20:11
DocScrutinizer05RICE!!! waaah!20:14
freemangordonъеах, рице20:14
infobotrice is probably good for you20:14
freemangordonyeah, rice20:14
DocScrutinizer05but not for your electronics20:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is. it acts like silicagel20:15
freemangordonyeah, sure20:15
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* SpeedEvil grrs.20:16
DocScrutinizer05rice is stored at "open air" for months or years, and suddenly when your N900 is near, it starts hygroscopic properties? BWAHAHA20:16
SpeedEvilI need to do a proper video demonstration that rice is not magic20:16
freemangordon"open air" moisture is less than that of the device dropped in water20:17
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: maybe rice is like silica gel. But then it is like silica gel that been stored in open air for 3 years20:17
DocScrutinizer05*completely* saturated20:17
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DocScrutinizer05err wut???20:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: so, salt is not hygroscopic, because it is stored on open air?20:18
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DocScrutinizer05no, it's not hygroscopic because it's NaCl20:21
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DocScrutinizer05yeah fine, so wrap it in paper, same effect as salt20:26
DocScrutinizer05probably beans are also "hygroscopic"20:27
freemangordonand rice grains are used to keep table salt from moisturing20:27
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: well, at least thats what we use here. And it works20:27
kerioDocScrutinizer05: where could i buy some silica gel, btw?20:28
kerioi've only seen it in shoe boxes20:28
kerioin those tiny paper bags20:28
freemangordonkerio: buy lots of shoes :P20:28
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ask someone living near the see how they keep table salt from moisturing, and be my guest to say "BULLSHIT!!!!" again20:29
DocScrutinizer05rice in salt is a mechanical effect20:30
DocScrutinizer05you as well could use small polystyrene balls20:30
freemangordonNo matter what effect is, the end result is that the salt is dry20:30
keriono, the end result is that the salt falls down the shaker20:31
DocScrutinizer05do you think industry would use expensive silica gel if rice had *any* effect, even when using ten times the amount of silica gel?20:31
freemangordonI am not saying that rice is as effective as silica gel is20:31
DocScrutinizer05no, the slat isn't 'dry', it's just not agglomerating20:32
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: bullshit20:32
freemangordonit is dry, try it somday20:32
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DocScrutinizer05listen buddy, take a dish with 20ml water and a dish with 50g of salt and place them under a cheese cover20:33
DocScrutinizer05you honestly suggest that ~30 grains of rice could take the moisture that you suppose would constantly be aggregated by your salt in your salt dispenser? for how long? why?20:35
DocScrutinizer05you as well could claim that the water molecules in air are scared by the rice and do not enter the salt dispenser20:36
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what I say is that the salt remains dry for much longer compared to without rice20:38
freemangordonof course it moistures at the end20:39
DocScrutinizer05a very obvious and evident consideration: what are you buying for rice in supermarket? a paper bag with 500g rice. Do you think this paper bag will weigh 600g after standing there for 4 weeks in your seaside village?20:39
kerionot if it's vacuum-sealed!20:40
* kerio flees20:40
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: 100 ml of water is waaay too much. On room temperature20:41
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freemangordonBTW you could try to explain the effect - salt remains dry, without anyone shaking the saltier every now and then20:42
DocScrutinizer05my salt stays dry without rice20:42
DocScrutinizer05here we got huge sheds where literally hundereds of tons of salt are stored for de-icing the streets. Nobody ever seen this salt getting wet or to agglutinate20:44
DocScrutinizer05unless the roof leaks and rain comes in20:44
RST38hThe land of order!20:45
myname24It depends on the climate20:45
Lava_Croftand the kind of salt20:45
Lava_Crofthere in NL the salt for de-icing is treated20:45
RST38hMoscow apparently uses sand this winter.20:45
Lava_Croftwith whatever20:45
Lava_CroftSand is quite common to use in scandinavia too, iirc20:46
Lava_Croftyou just suck it up with a snorting machine when spring arrives20:46
DocScrutinizer05dang, you must be rich over there in Netherlands, treating your de-icing salt20:46
DocScrutinizer05here we pick it directly from the saline20:47
Lava_Croftwe mostly use a kind of 'open asphalt concrete'20:47
Lava_Croftfor better water drainage20:47
Lava_Croftthis does pose problems when putting shit on the road against ice, since it goes all into the asphalt20:47
Lava_Croftapparently that requires some kind of treatment for the salt20:48
Lava_Croftand rules out the use of sand20:48
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: my salt stands dry here in Sofia too, but Sofia far from the see.20:52
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freemangordon*is far20:52
DocScrutinizer05probably the use of rice instead of silica gel for keeping sealed goods dry is patented, that's why nobody in industry dares to use that alternative method despite it's "green" and 1000 tmes cheaper20:53
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myname24Well after 7 hours of working normally now it stopped for some reason ( digitizer )20:55
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myname24And also right now original state restored . What could be wrong ?20:57
DocScrutinizer05FPC defect. Or digitizer defect20:58
DocScrutinizer05honestly. Place 50.00g rice together with a dish full with water under a cheese cover or in a tupperware box for 24h. Then weigh the rice21:00
DocScrutinizer05make sure you don't spill water over the rice directly21:00
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vi_ShadowJK: ping.21:04
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DocScrutinizer05or place one dish with 10ml water under a cheese cover together with a dish with 100g rice, and an identical dish with 10ml water directly next to the cheese cover under open air. See which dries faster21:05
vi_aaah the old 'leave it in a bag of rice hoax'.21:05
DocScrutinizer05I offer a bet: 100 bucks on the open air21:06
DocScrutinizer05vi_: yep21:06
vi_someone drop their phone in a toilet?21:06
DocScrutinizer05tbh I didn't follow the original issue, just read "drying it with the rice patent" OWTTE21:07
vi_leave it in a tub with some silica gel crystals.21:07
DocScrutinizer05instantly made me start ranting21:07
keriovi_: where can i get those? :O21:07
vi_or strip it down to parts and leave it in the air for a couple of days.21:07
vi_kerio: a tub? i dunno, ebay or somthing.21:08
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: google "buy silica gel"21:12
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: rice withdrawing moisture is not an urban legend21:22
freemangordonI gave you the salt example.21:23
freemangordonAnd I can witness it works (for salt)21:23
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: you proved one urban legend with another example of wild guessing and not knowing about the facts21:23
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DocScrutinizer05I told you why it works21:24
DocScrutinizer05you ignored that21:24
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: rice keeping salt dry IS NOT an urban legend21:24
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DocScrutinizer05evidently 20 grains of rice CAN NOT bind all the water that you assume the salt would aggregate in weeks and months of storing it in open air21:25
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: not 20, but 3. And who talks about open air? saltiers are usually close, with just a few tiny holes on top21:26
DocScrutinizer05if rice would work in salt like you suggested, it would 'expire' and need swapping for 'fresh' rice after a few weeks21:26
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sure21:27
freemangordonbut by that time the salt in the saltier needs to be "changed" too21:27
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freemangordonthe point is that without rice it gets wet in 2 days. with rice - in 2 weeks21:28
freemangordongot it?21:28
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what is wrong with you?21:28
freemangordontake your pills, please21:28
DocScrutinizer05I don't take shit21:28
DocScrutinizer05I explained several scientific approaches to prove your claims. Until then you at best make it on my ignore list if you don't stop spreading baseless bogus claims21:30
DocScrutinizer05I even offered a rather attractive bet to you, you ignored it and instead continue to try to convince me by spreading BS here21:32
cjdaviesjesus tittyfucking christ21:34
cjdaviesgot the wvdial thing working21:34
cjdaviesthis is so fucking convenient21:34
cjdaviesturns out I just needed to randomly copypasta a random phone number string from some random pastebin21:34
cjdaviesalso, glad this was the right channel when I started typing that21:34
keriothat's like standard21:34
cjdaviessomething like that21:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you may call it bullshit or whatever, but rice keeping the salt dry(in saltier) is a fact of life. Ask whoever you want and who lives in a place with high humidity. I am out of that conversation, as it is pointless21:35
DocScrutinizer05F O!21:35
freemangordon~F O21:35
kerio"Even 11.11 oz ( a lot more than those few grains of rice in a shaker) of very dried rice in a very humid day did not absort any noticeable moisture."21:36
DocScrutinizer05fact of life is that a few grains of whatever in salt stop it from agglutinating21:36
keriorice in salt prevents clumping *mechanically*21:37
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keriohell, it probably works well because the salt keeps the rice dry21:37
DocScrutinizer05any relation to humidity yet to prove, and simple applied logic shows it can't be the hygroscopic properties of rice that cause it21:37
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: good point :-D21:38
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DocScrutinizer05and btw even that "fact of life" is not really commonly accepted as true. Several scientists state that the rice is a placebo, and A vs B tests show no clear results21:49
vi_I dunno.21:53
vi_There does apppear to be some papers written on the subject.21:54
DocScrutinizer05and the 'hygroscopic properties of NaCl' are also nonsense. In former times it been Mg and Ca salts in stone salt that are really extremely hygroscopic and rice might suck up the watery solution of CaCl and thus keep the NaCl "dry"21:54
DocScrutinizer05this however doesn't mean that rice is particularly hygroscopic21:56
DocScrutinizer05a few small balls (or stripes) of paper towel in the salt would serve same purpose as the rice21:57
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DocScrutinizer05btw this reasoning pretty much explains why scientific research regarding rice in salt doesn't yiled coherent results. One salt isn't like the other, and it's actually the percentage of CaCl in ordinary salt that's relevant for the results22:07
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DocScrutinizer05  "Because of its hygroscopic nature, anhydrous calcium chloride must be kept in tightly sealed, air-tight containers."   "The anhydrous salt is deliquescent; it can accumulate enough water in its crystal lattice to form a solution."22:11
DocScrutinizer05now that we made that clear, it's hopefully evident that rice is ineffective to dry electronics by just placing them into rice22:12
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DocScrutinizer05placing them into (or rather next to) unrefined stone salt would for sure have better (since _any_) effect22:14
SpeedEvilplace in oven at 70c for a day22:15
SpeedEvilI did this to an entire laptop (minus ram and HD) after washing thouroughky in water.22:16
SpeedEvil( I'd poured quite a lot of coffee through the CPU fan inlet)22:16
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vi_SpeedEvil: niceone22:24
SpeedEvilworks fine several months later.22:25
SpeedEvilalso a lot cleaner22:25
trumeeSpeedEvil: my experience with android,
NeutrinoPowerI want use sipgate with Maemo, what is the adress? or ?22:26
SpeedEviltrumee: quasseldroid22:27
trumeeSpeedEvil: i run znc bouncer, can quasseldroid work with it?22:27
SpeedEvilit's sort of an alternative to bouncers22:28
Sicelo900why not?22:28
SpeedEvilthere os a persistent core, on an always up machine22:28
SpeedEvilclients connect to this.22:28
SpeedEviland act like they were never discojpnnected22:29
trumeeSpeedEvil: doesnt it need a specific quassel client, rather than any generic client?22:29
SpeedEvilqd is a android client22:29
trumeeSpeedEvil: is there a N900 client?22:29
SpeedEvilI vaguely remember one22:29
ShadowJKiirc Luke-Jr uses quassel22:30
Sicelo900yes, there is quassel for N90022:30
SpeedEvilin principle, it's qt22:30
trumeeSpeedEvil: also, is it possible to export a calender from N900 and import it on android Without going through google?22:30
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SpeedEvilno idea22:31
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Sicelo900i think not.22:31
freemangordontrumee: is it possible to do anything on android without google?22:31
trumeeSicelo: what a shame!22:31
SpeedEvilmy calendar at the moment has two events22:31
trumeefreemangordon: i am trying to work that out :)22:31
Sicelo900the few droids i've seen can't import vcals22:31
SpeedEviland one of those is to remjng me to take out the bins22:32
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trumeemaecaltool on maemo doesnt work either for me.22:33
Sicelo900trumee: it might be possible.. now i think of it. if you have access to an ms exchange server, lol22:33
trumeeah, maecaltool works fine now22:35
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trumeeSicelo: android is very limiting on standard things22:35
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Sicelo900today i attached to a cisco router's console via the console cable + usb-serial adapter + h.e.n , and dealth a huge blow to all the techs i work with, who own different types of android & iphone devices22:41
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vi_Sicelo900: fucking nice one!22:47
vi_real(ish) serial port on the n900 is badass.22:47
teotwaki_the fact you don't have a serial terminal in server room big enough to house multiple techs is slightly worrying.22:48
vi_that also.22:49
vi_he probably did, but needed to swag his e-peen.22:49
DocScrutinizer05((<SpeedEvil> place in oven at 70c for a day)) yep, absolutely correct22:49
Sicelo900vi_: exactly.. it was just a 'naughty' gamble,22:49
trumeeseems maecaltool cannot create individal ics files for events22:51
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Sicelo900hmm, 70c for a day... DocScrutinizer05, SpeedEvil we're talking degrees celcius?23:00
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DocScrutinizer05the exhaust fan of your PC or laptop is a pretty good place to dry electronics23:02
Sicelo900i'd have thought that's a bit too high. then again, thanks for this info23:03
SpeedEvilSicelo: consider the temperature of an item left on a car seat in the sun23:03
DocScrutinizer05well, it's kinda upper limit. you shouldn't go any higher than 70°C23:03
SpeedEvilyou need to get water out of .5mm thick gaps that may be 20mm derp23:04
SpeedEvilthat takes a fair amount of drying23:05
DocScrutinizer05rinsing with 98% ethanol is a good idea23:05
DocScrutinizer05it replaces the water23:05
SpeedEvilI diddn't have any to hand.23:05
DocScrutinizer05and evaporates way quicker, and is less conductive23:05
SpeedEvilI was feeling truly crap23:05
SpeedEvilhence wash the whole thing was the only option23:06
SpeedEvildissasembly wasn't an option23:06
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, what happened to the irc cloaks?23:21
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I have to send a mail, didn't get around to it yet. don't hold your breath though, historically it takes weeks to months to process cloak changes23:25
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