IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-09-10

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ShadowJKN900 bluetooth range is somewhat impressive01:44
ShadowJK45 meters before my headphones started cutting out01:44
SpeedEvilwhich phones?01:56
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil; some peltor bluetooth ones02:19
SpeedEvilI've been wondering about getting some, but I have conflicting needs.02:20
ShadowJKws2 oe something02:20
* ShadowJK wears them at work02:20
SpeedEvilmaybe I should just stick with regular in ear and a convertor box02:20
ShadowJKI went to fetch the less sucky dmm and only noticed when I went into the machine shop that I had forgotten phone02:20
ShadowJKthen I checked range :)02:21
SpeedEvilI'm finding in ear phones mostly OK for nuisance noise attenuation02:22
SpeedEviland then slap some cheap ear defenders on top for really decent02:23
ShadowJKI've been temoted to try Shure's in-ear, their (now historical) published specs indicated noise isolation almost as good as real hearing protection02:23
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SpeedEvilI've been using the n900 phones02:23
ShadowJKI find I need really tiny in-ear ones to fit underneath, and the types with rubber or silicone earcanal seal are uncomfortable like that, the foam varieties are better, they prevent differential air pressure from building up02:24
ShadowJKheh, I've never even tried those, but the driver part, and the strain relief looked too big, iirc02:25
SpeedEvilyeah, you need properly fitted silicone.02:25
SpeedEvilI was pondering casting my own. but the stock ones work OK02:26
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ShadowJKNo I mean when the silicone properly fits, it gets uncomfortable with additional cups on top02:28
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DocScrutinizer05there are some senheiser(?) in-ear with custom-made ear-fittings03:03
DocScrutinizer05for like 300EUR03:03
DocScrutinizer05takes 2 weeks to deliver from the mould they take from your ear03:03
DocScrutinizer05on a sidenote, my friggin LG TV needs more volume each other month, I wonder if it's speakes wearing out, or my ears wearing out03:05
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DocScrutinizer05that's probably age when you can't see closer than 50cm and ears go deaf03:06
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DocScrutinizer05it's never been that true: I'm getting too old for that shit03:06
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ShadowJKI have some sennheisers that have really tiny drivers and strain reliefs, fits good under peltor cups. But, for some reason, when the seal is perfect. it gets really uncomfortable, and it's like there's no attenuation of noise in the low range, say 150Hz and down04:36
robbiethe1stShadowJK, you've got a N900 right?04:38
robbiethe1stGrab this:
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robbiethe1stWorks nicely, gives you a proper EQ for the stock media player(and possibly others)04:39
ShadowJKThat's unrelated.04:41
ShadowJKI'm talking about external noise04:41
ShadowJKlike say in an airplane or a car04:41
ShadowJKBoosting bass with eq to bring it above noise is just going to ruin your hearing too, which is counter to the entire point :P04:41
robbiethe1stI thought your problem was too much bass; figured you could turn it down04:42
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freemangordon~seen zeq10:49
infobotzeq <~s_j_newbu@2a01:348:1e3:1:e6ec:10ff:fe9a:d418> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo-ssu, 6d 14h 16m 45s ago, saying: 'I guess that could work'.10:49
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vi_~seen your butt11:14
infobotvi_: i haven't seen 'your butt'11:14
freemangordonvi_: hmm, strange11:15
infobotbutt is, like, not to be confused with but11:15
infoboti heard music is essential for hacking -- especially calming music for debugging so you don't throw the damn machine out the nearest window  Available from magnatune, a company that isn't evil.11:15
vi_~seen hugh gass11:17
infobotvi_: i haven't seen 'hugh gass'11:17
vi_freemangordon: I know, I am exposing my butt all the time.11:17
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freemangordonvi_: yeah, that's why it seems strange infobot has never seen it11:19
vi_freemangordon: I am changing over to embedded systems role at my job today.11:20
vi_freemangordon: After 2 years I am starting C again.11:20
freemangordonwow, sounds great11:20
vi_The project I am taking over is...11:20
vi_made of nightmares11:20
freemangordonwell, saying it is written in C should be enough :D11:21
vi_There have been 6 people working on this for the past 8 years.11:21
vi_The last 2 only lasted 1 year each.11:21
freemangordonyeah, I know what you mean11:21
vi_They did not know C and learned 'on the job'.11:21
vi_This firmware is an abomination.11:21
freemangordonI can bet the code is like spaghetti11:21
vi_freemangordon: At least spaghetti is not tied end to end.11:22
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Wizzuprewrite it in golang ;)11:22
vi_They only started including 'version' numbers inside the code in the last year.11:22
freemangordonWizzup: not always possible, imagine you have a deadline ;)11:22
vi_The guy added it to THE END of 'print.c'11:23
vi_freemangordon: I did not lol. :|11:23
jaskawhy not lol, existence is but a bad joke.11:23
freemangordonvi_: is the situation with developers that hard where you are?11:24
vi_freemangordon: No, my company is just so fucking stupid and cheap.11:24
vi_For example the goon that just left was getting paid 25% more than me.11:25
vi_They are expecting me to take over his job on my current salary.11:25
vi_I have not had a pay rise in 3 years.11:25
vi_In fact I have taken a pay cut if you consider inflation.11:26
freemangordonvi_: well, it is economic crisys after all11:26
vi_For skilled people it is not so much.11:26
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vi_I shall use this opportunnity to get back into embedded systems and coding (I have not really done any for 3 years) and then find a new job in a couple of months.  Fuck 'em.11:28
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Wizzupmeh, you should able to get a decent pay somewhere if you don't mind loosening your ideals (say, android or ios coding)11:30
vi_Wizzup: I am more about embedded systems as oppose to appz development.11:30
WizzupI understood that11:31
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teotwakivi_: how's your networking skills?11:34
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vi_teotwaki: With people or embedded systems?11:35
teotwakivi_: also, where are you based and do you mind travelling?11:35
vi_teotwaki: Edinburgh11:35
vi_teotwaki: (scotland)11:35
teotwakiYes, I know where the brugh is11:36
vi_Why, do you know somone who is hiring?11:36
teotwakivi_: and, do you mind travelling?11:36
vi_depends what exactly you mean by travelling.11:36
vi_I.e a long commute or relocating country?11:37
teotwakigoing to the other side of the planet for customer meetings.11:37
vi_teotwaki: that sounds awesome.11:37
teotwakinot relocation, just regular travels to meet up with the team.11:37
teotwakihow's your multithreading skills?11:37
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vi_non-existant. I have not done any real coding for ~3 years.  Back then it was firmware for 8051 microcontrollers.11:38
vi_Now it is firmware for freescale 56F30011:39
teotwakiWell, if embedded is what you like (set top boxes, tvs, mobiles), you may want to check out ZMQ11:40
teotwakiThe company that powers ZMQ is looking for solid recruits11:40
teotwakiYoung, available (as in, not tied down by girlfriend/wife), ready to work stupid hours.11:40
teotwakiBut the pay is good, and you get to become a public figure ;)11:41
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vi_teotwaki: interesting...11:41
Luke-Jrso they want slaves..11:41
vi_teotwaki: Thank you for the tip.11:41
teotwakiLuke-Jr: that's one way of looking at it, but seeing they'd probably double or triple my salary, I'm OK with that.11:42
teotwakiAnd I am *very* well paid for my geographical area.11:42
Luke-JrI'm relatively underpaid, because I weigh pay with other important factors <.<11:43
Luke-Jrlike working from home, not signing NDAs, etc11:43
vi_In this project they have run out of flash memory to hold the code.11:44
vi_The flash memory is 64k.11:45
vi_This is a simple gas measuring device.11:45
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teotwakiYeah, I work from home two or three days a week, I don't have any NDAs, I get 7 weeks of (paid) vacation, I'm a shareholder, and I'm currently negotiating to start my own company within the holding.11:45
vi_with 4 buttons and a tiny monochrome LCD display.11:45
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teotwakivi_: let me guess, they compile with -O6?11:45
vi_teotwaki: I like where you are at, how old are you?11:45
teotwakiI'm 26.11:46
vi_teotwaki: I do not even know yet.11:46
vi_teotwaki: FUCK.11:46
vi_teotwaki: 26?????11:46
teotwakiOr 25?11:46
vi_teotwaki: FML.11:46
teotwakiNo, 26.11:46
teotwakivi_: why, how old are you?11:47
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vi_and if it is not to much, who do you work for?11:47
vi_teotwaki: I am 27.  I have a graduate salary and a rusty car.11:47
teotwakiA small company in France, Interact-IV. The website is shite---we don't sell things directly, so we don't need to be known; we have other companies (massive network operators in Europe) who get the clients, and give 'em to us.11:48
vi_And You GET TO LIVE IN FRANCE???11:49
vi_The food!11:49
vi_The hot chicks!11:49
teotwaki90% of our business is "white label", or whatever the terminology is in English.11:49
vi_The language!11:49
teotwakiWell, I'm hoping to leave pretty soon, frankly.11:49
vi_teotwaki: Germany, right?11:49
teotwakiI spent my adolescence here, came back after two years in London, and some time in Australia, the weather's awesome, and the produce is amazing, but the people are just stupid.11:50
teotwakiNo, probably London again for a year or two, then Sweden or Canada.11:50
vi_So this 64k firmware has a whole USB subsystem compiled into it.11:50
vi_...there is no USB interface in the PCB.11:51
vi_Sweden & Canada are appealing,11:51
vi_London is apalling.11:51
vi_fuck my spelling this morning.11:51
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teotwakivi_: isn't there a JTAG-to-USB interface?11:52
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teotwakiLondon is actually seriously cool, I love that place11:52
teotwakiTake the train for 10 minutes, and you cycle your heart out, take the train in the other direction for 20 minutes, and you're at work.11:52
vi_Yes, but why would you need USB in the firmware for it?11:53
teotwakiI don't know, but maybe a physical USB thingie isn't required to use USB?11:53
vi_Also, no one has had the debugger hooked up in about 2 years.11:53
teotwakiYou can fly to literally any place in the world from London, except for maybe London itself, you can even take the train to Belgium/Paris, so holidays and visiting friends/family is no big deal.11:54
jacekowskilondon is horrible11:54
vi_teotwaki: I meant the project, the device has no USB on it.  It does not use the USB hardware of the 56F300, yet the code for it is included in the firmware.11:54
vi_jacekowski: I can confirm this.11:54
jacekowskiteotwaki: you can't fly to paris from london11:54
teotwakivi_: ah, ok.11:54
jacekowskiteotwaki: you have to take the train11:55
teotwakijacekowski: I don't think that's correct11:55
jacekowskiteotwaki: eurostar takes 2h to get to paris11:55
vi_London: filthy, rotten to the core and full of c*nts.11:55
jacekowskiteotwaki: with check-in times of like 10minutes11:55
jacekowskiteotwaki: plane takes about the same and check in times are much longer11:55
jacekowskiteotwaki: so airlines couldn't compete with eurostar on that route11:56
teotwakiEurostar is actually more of a checkin of 30-40 minutes, but ok :)11:56
teotwakijacekowski: Air France 118011:56
jacekowskiteotwaki: i've traveled on eurostar few times and never had any problems11:56
jacekowskiteotwaki: i got there like 20 minutes before train was due to leave and i managed to get something to eat in that time11:57
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teotwakiYes, check in *can* be easy, but I could tell you the same story flying out from Tunisia, or even LHR :)11:58
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teotwakiAnd for the record, the plural of anecdotes isn't data.11:58
jacekowskiit always takes a lot longer to check in on the airport11:59
jacekowski+ you have weight limits11:59
jacekowskiand with eurostar you end up in middle of paris11:59
jacekowskiCDG airport is quite far from it11:59
teotwakiYes yes, you're right, disregard any statement I might provide with new constraints and rules, just so you can keep disregarding my facts :)12:00
teotwakiI said "You can fly to literally any place in the world from London, except for maybe London itself, you can even take the train to Belgium/Paris"12:01
jacekowskiwell yeah12:01
teotwakiand somehow this fucktard is arguing with me that "Eurostar is the only way to to Paris"12:01
teotwakiI mean what the fuck, who gives a flying shit.12:01
teotwakiYou're arguing exactly the same thing as I am.12:01
jacekowskiwell, i'm just saying london is horrible12:01
teotwakiHow is arguing for its excellent transport a way to make that point?12:02
jacekowskiwell, it's not12:02
jon_ysales droid12:03
jon_ysome of them are anyway12:03
jacekowskii've worked in london and wouldn't say that transport is so good12:03
jacekowskievery time i had to take a van into london it was like 2h to get to city from M2512:04
teotwakiAnd try doing the same in Paris, or Moscow, or Kiev, or SF, or NY.12:06
jacekowskithat's why i don't like big cities12:06
teotwakiBut then compare---as a tourist---using the tube in London, Paris, Kiev.12:06
jacekowskiabominations like that shouldn't exist12:06
teotwakiKiev is stupid, nobody speaks English, and you can't read where to get out. The tube is roughly at 250m under ground level, so you spend 10 minutes going down, doooown, dooooooooown.12:07
teotwakiBut it's very funny to see some poor dude in a cabin at the bottom of the escalators, looking up, all day, all the time, to press the single big red button in front of him if someone trips.12:07
teotwakiParis is even more stupid, because most people *could* help you if they wanted to. They just can't be bothered. The indications don't make sense, because they only happen once every 600m, nevermind the fact you just went up and down two escalators, a u-turn, and had to use three tickets because the old ones didn't work anymore.12:09
teotwakiCompare that with London, where every tube train indicates where it's going, and there's maps/boards indicating everywhere where it's come from. There's staff all over the fucking place, in case your ticket doesn't work (you know, that good ol'e right that says that no mechanical authority can hold you prisoner unless there's a human to supervise it---it works!), or in case you need directions.12:11
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vi_can somone suggest a good online c dictionary?12:37
teotwakic dictionary?12:37
DocScrutinizer05<teotwaki> Young, available....12:38
vi_an online reference12:40
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teotwakivi_: of what?12:41
teotwakiYou mean the C Std Lib?12:42
teotwakiMan pages?12:42
vi_no one reads manpages.12:42
teotwakiman stdio12:42
ZogG_laptopthere was some site with functions and the examples12:42
vi_teotwaki: I have to use a windows 7 workstation12:43
ZogG_laptopvi_: actually people do read man pages12:43
tadzikwait, what12:43
ZogG_laptopvi_: there are mans online :P12:43
tadzik"I need a reference" "LOL, no one reads manpages"12:43
tadzikwhat has the world come to12:43
vi_ZogG_laptop: I do not want to know about your online man search.12:43
ZogG_laptopvi_: if you don;t want to know — don't ask!!!12:44
* DocScrutinizer05 idly poonders which jobs an employer may ask for "young" employees without getting sued for discrimination12:44
ZogG_laptopsimple like that, if you ask at public chat, be greatful for any help/reply. otherwise ask privately from who you want to hear12:45
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: sent your CV to jolla?12:45
vi_ZogG_laptop: jesus christ ZogG_laptop, it was a joke.12:45
ZogG_laptopvi_: oh, =*12:45
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: because young people usually don't have as much baggage as more "ancient" devs12:45
vi_teotwaki: cheers.12:45
ZogG_laptopvi_: still didn't wake up12:45
teotwakiDocScrutinizer05: they don't mind working 16 hours per day, as long as the pay is good12:45
vi_baggage==experiance==more money.12:46
teotwakiand they don't mind jumping into a 10 hour work day after a 15 hour flight12:46
vi_Basically you have too much exp to join the graduates guild.12:46
teotwakivi_: no, baggage == holding you down.12:46
teotwakiRelationships: Long-term anchor to keep your feet on the ground, but also daily pain in the ass.12:47
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vi_teotwaki: I know.12:47
ZogG_laptopvi_: - i think that can be usefull12:47
vi_ZogG_laptop: cheers,12:48
ZogG_laptopi'm writting project now in ansi C for school and i wrote a load of shit code :P12:49
ZogG_laptopfound this site while searching for string functions12:50
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ZogG_laptophey Dibblah12:53
vi_mother of god.12:58
vi_In this code they do not check the I2C (smbus) flag for 'ready', they just tell the processor to wait a millisecond or so.12:59
vi_The hammer on regardless.12:59
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vi_It is as shitty as using a slow sampling to de-bounce a button.13:02
DocScrutinizer05coders and hardware13:06
teotwakiOne of our direct customers has been harassing me for a couple of months.13:19
teotwakiThe issue they have is related to configuration, I've told them on day one. We don't provide support for configuration issues. But the guy insists it's a bug, so I connect to their VPN, and check what's what.13:19
teotwakiI notice that one of the processes has a weird configuration line. We enable to "name" different networks, so that they can route specific types of media streams over different networks.13:20
ZogG_laptopteotwaki: where is punch line?13:20
teotwakiThe guy added the configuration <network address="" mask="" server_address="">13:21
teotwakiI told him "It doesn't look like that network address is the correct one. Could you double check that?"13:21
teotwakiHe replied "No, is the correct address for that server"13:21
teotwakiI replied, "I'm sorry, I meant the address field, it points to, which isn't a network your server has access to, maybe you copied the file from production, and only updated the server_address field?"13:22
teotwakiHe replied, "No, I insist that that address is correct."13:22
teotwakiThere's no such network on the server, for clear conscience, I connected to their production servers, and sure enough, their network is
teotwakiSo I sent an email with nice red and green colours, just to display what fields I'm talking about, because that numbnuts is incapable of reading my email without visual clues.13:24
teotwakiAnyway, going home, too much construction noise at the office.13:24
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fastaAfter upgrading to the latest stable community edition, my usb ethernet connection doesn't work anymore. Why not?14:05
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vi_fasta: Because, gnomes.14:10
fastavi_: I had to do a manual ifup usb014:11
fastavi_: but that wasn't the case before.14:11
fastaSo, someone changed something.14:11
fastaOr gremlins14:11
fastaI am going for the former.14:11
keriofasta: autoifupping usb0 isn't something that used to be in cssu14:12
fastakerio: no, but it's something I put in /etc/network/interfaces14:12
kerioso put it there again14:12
fastakerio: it's still there, but it just doesn't work now.14:13
kerioask Pali14:13
fastakerio: do you happen to know how I can enable boot messages to show when it is starting?14:15
keriomaybe install syslog14:15
kerioor rsyslog14:15
fastakerio: because I basically cannot really see sometimes whether it's booting, shutting down again, etc.14:16
fastakerio: no, I mean during boot.14:16
fastakerio: that I can see visual boot messages.14:16
fastakerio: this is a problem when the usb cable is connected, because the usb cable is also used for firmware upgrades.14:16
fastaSo, sometimes there are delays, etc., so it's not clear as to what it is doing.14:16
keriobtw, make sure g_nokia is loaded14:17
kerioand not g_file_storage14:17
DocScrutinizer05>><fasta> kerio: this is a problem when the usb cable is connected, because the usb cable is also used for firmware upgrades.<<< err wut?14:28
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DocScrutinizer05sounds like PK boot issue to me14:29
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: PK?14:30
keriohe means KP14:30
keriofor kernel-power14:30
fastaDocScrutinizer05: I am running stock kernel.14:30
DocScrutinizer05I'm not speaking reverse polish notiation14:30
DocScrutinizer05fasta: so what's your boot problems then?14:31
DocScrutinizer05there are no boot problems known, and for sure CSSU doesn't mess with that14:31
fastaDocScrutinizer05: mostly that I don't know whether after pressing the start button whether it is really booting or not.14:32
fastaDocScrutinizer05: it would be nice if it would give some indication that yes, it's really booting.14:32
DocScrutinizer05CSSU didn't change a thing on that14:32
fastaDocScrutinizer05: sure, but that doesn't make it less of a problem.14:32
DocScrutinizer05it's always been like "press button, watch indicator LED, waaaaait"14:33
fastaDocScrutinizer05: yes, but sometimes the indicatator LED is not fully white.14:33
fastaDocScrutinizer05: but I do see the Nokia logo.14:33
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fastaIn that case, it's in some state where AFAIK, you can also do a firmware upgrade.14:33
DocScrutinizer05sorry I don't get it what's your problem14:33
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DocScrutinizer05too fuzzy description, no use in me trying to make a story out of it14:34
DocScrutinizer05and assumptions that don't help14:35
fastaDocScrutinizer05: never mind then. Perhaps I should make a video out of it, if I care more about the problem.14:36
DocScrutinizer05maybe your confusion arises from the fact that device actually boots to a state called act_dead as soon as you apply power to USB14:36
keriobtw, act_dead is stupid14:36
DocScrutinizer05this can take like 15 seconds, during which the device might not respond to you trying to "boot" it14:37
DocScrutinizer05and no, firmware update is absolutely unrelated to this14:38
DocScrutinizer05the firmware update state is a transient state in very early boot (boot triggered by plugging in USB, as well as "manual" boot via power button, though on the latter you won't notice it usually)14:39
DocScrutinizer05it's the NOLO bootloader that shows NOKIA screen without backlight that handles firmware update. You can keep it in that state when you press and hold "u" key while plugging in USB14:40
DocScrutinizer05(unless your battery is too depleted, which will cause NOLO to abort firmware update state and go straight to booting into linux)14:41
keriocan we even talk about "firmware" in the n900's case?14:41
DocScrutinizer05but all that is irrelevent you you should never mind. It got nothing to do with what you probably think is meant by "booting"14:42
DocScrutinizer05kerio: good point, I always thought we can't really14:42
DocScrutinizer05but firmware is a rather fuzzy term, poorly defined14:42
DocScrutinizer05it had a precise meaning for microcontrolers etc that never can change their own "firmware" during runtime14:43
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jaskaeven cpu microcode can be updated runtime now :)14:44
DocScrutinizer05jaska: though I'd tend to call THAT firmware still14:45
DocScrutinizer05firmware of the CPU core, changed by larger SoC14:46
DocScrutinizer05generally firmware isn't self-modifying14:46
DocScrutinizer05and usually installed at fab production time, or later during special firmware update process, but generally doesn't alter/change in the times of normal usage in between those special events14:48
DocScrutinizer05but I guess that doesn't help to relieve fasta's confusion and grief14:49
DocScrutinizer05fasta: a general suggestion: after plugging device to USB, *wait* for 30s before "booting" it14:50
fastaDocScrutinizer05: ok (although, I am also not the most patient of people) ;)14:50
fastaThe act_dead comments above seem to apply.14:51
DocScrutinizer05I recall I suffered quite similar confusion in my early N900 times ;-D14:51
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DocScrutinizer05if you're in a hurry, *first* boot and only *then* plug in USB14:52
DocScrutinizer05takes considerably shorter and less patience14:52
fastaIs there a way to increase the 32GB storage on the device?14:55
DocScrutinizer05(rationale: when booted by power button [I.E. without USB plugged in] the device will enter normal active mode [run level], not act_dead)14:55
DocScrutinizer05fasta: yes, plug in a 32GB microSD card ;-)14:55
fastaDocScrutinizer05: so there's an open slot still somewhere?14:56
DocScrutinizer05err, under battery cover14:56
fastaYes, sure.14:56
DocScrutinizer05if you're asking about "internal stoage upgrade": no such thing supported on N90014:57
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fastaDocScrutinizer05: I already have 32GB currently.14:58
DocScrutinizer05not like on 8GB N9 which allows to swap the 8GB flash chip for a 64GB chip14:58
fastaDocScrutinizer05: as such, is there an extra space to get to 64GB?14:58
DocScrutinizer05fasta: N900 has 32GB internal "fixed"(soldered) storage (plus the 'core' 256MB NAND storage), and it has a uSD slot that can take uSD-cards up to 32(64?)GB15:00
DocScrutinizer05no other options beyond that15:00
DocScrutinizer0532GB internal + 32GB uSD = 64GB total storage capacity15:01
fastaIt appears that even 64GB does work (talk.maemo)15:01
fastaThat is, a 64GB uSD.15:02
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I think I haven't seen 64GB uSD cards yet15:02
DocScrutinizer05ooh, so they are finally available?15:03
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DocScrutinizer05isn't it puzzling some of you as well sometimes, to look at that tiny uSD and figure it can hold like 100 CD worth of data15:10
DocScrutinizer051TB in a volume the size of a sugar cube :-D15:11
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DocScrutinizer05for storage moore's law itself seems to follow moore's law15:12
DocScrutinizer05"storage capacity increases every two years by a factor that doubles every two years"15:14
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kerioPALI IS BACK15:29
kerioDocScrutinizer05: "ultra" uSDs suck for random read/writes15:30
DocScrutinizer05Pali: hi! :-D15:30
PaliI'm here and know implicit function theorem :)15:30
kerioPali: there's a number of problems with your bq24k module15:30
kerioit leaves gaia in a weird state15:31
kerioluckily we found a way to reset it without removing the bupbat15:31
Palikerio, first look at:
Palisee if it is fixed or not15:31
kerioooh, Disable charger in none mode15:31
keriocould be that15:31
PaliI fixed some problems (it reported bad values in sysfs)15:32
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Paliand hald-addon-bme is working now!15:32
kerioi don't know if i'm a bad enough dude to test it15:33
kerioPali: are you?15:33
Paliand now I rewritten dsme-thermalobject-surface to use bq27200 temperature:
Palidsme-thermalobject-surface it not tested yet15:34
kerioPali: eventually i got to a weird state where twl thought the charger was connected15:34
Palihald-addon-bme with patched bq2415x_charger working without problem on my n90015:34
Paliit correctly detect when charger is connected and when disconnected15:35
Paliand I have something about adcin0 temperature conversion15:36
Palinothing from nokia devs, but from some public bme hearder files15:36
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Palisearch for file bmeisa.h and here is: "unit conversion data for logarithmical channel" and "struct { gain, b, t_ref }" and "unit: 1 Kelvin"15:38
PaliI think that this is used for temperature formula, and function will be some logarithm approximation...15:39
PaliDocScrutinizer05, see ^^^^15:39
PaliI created small code which ask libbmeipc for data about temperature and bme returns me: 64 00 34 0D 2A 0115:41
Paliand 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 I found in CAL15:41
Palicalvaria show me: -- BME-PMM area -- group 1, element 8: [0000]:  05 03 03 00 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 00 00 00 00 00 00  |....d.4.*.......|15:42
PaliI also written small program which ask bme (via bmeipc) for adcin0 value and temperature value (returns in kelvin)15:43
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Paliand adcin0 value I checking with raw value from /dev/twl-adc... and both are same...15:44
DocScrutinizer05sounds like some great success :-)15:44
Paliso we can collect more raw values and converted temperatures, we have some hint that convert function can be logarithm and some data from cal (which can be some adjust constant)15:45
PaliI think we can count that conversation formula15:45
Palior at least create some mapping table15:45
DocScrutinizer05mapping table with some 8 support points and linear interpolation should be just good enough15:46
DocScrutinizer05maybe 1615:46
DocScrutinizer05after all this sensor is pretty inaccurate by hw design15:47
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DocScrutinizer05and given the purpose of that temperature value for system (or any other possible usecase) we are probably fine with an accuracy of +-3°C, maybe even worse15:48
DocScrutinizer05ooh, Pali, have you looked into L3_4 manual and searched for calibration of battery temperature? It *might* have info about that, if there's actually any such thing like fab side calibration of that sensor15:52
Palithere is nothing about battery calibration (in L34)15:57
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DocScrutinizer05Yep, I just checked whole manual for both "temperature" and "NTC" ->nuttin16:04
teotwakiwhat about "temp"?16:04
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DocScrutinizer05not the usual language in L3_4 manual: "the battery temp sensor will check the temp at a point..."16:05
DocScrutinizer05WTF?!!?!! "no copying of text from this L3_4 manual due to DRM"16:08
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DocScrutinizer05~lart ocular16:08
* infobot changes ocular's permissions to 0777 and tells the world16:08
DocScrutinizer05somehow infobot must have a AI to always pick the matching ~lart16:09
teotwaki~lart DocScrutinizer0516:09
* infobot blames DocScrutinizer05 for all the evil in the world16:09
teotwakiindeed it does16:09
infobotteotwaki meant: indeed she does16:09
DocScrutinizer05anyway only "calibration" mentioned in L3_4 is for ALS16:10
DocScrutinizer05nothing (relevant) for "temp" either16:12
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: duh, you mean okular (the KDE thing) does that?16:12
tadzikor even retarded16:12
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tadzikit's like "you can't send this image via bluetooth" on some old nokias16:12
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: you might want to ask stskeeps about his knowledge and work regarding bmeipc16:14
Palido you really think that he wrote us some info about bme?16:15
DocScrutinizer05he investigated quite a bit of that stuff for mer16:15
DocScrutinizer05leme see if I can dig up a bookmark in my mess16:15
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I have done collecting data program16:16
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keriotadzik: my 6120c had that for .mp3s16:16
keriofor some stupid-ass reason16:16
kerioit was just a stupid check on the file extension, too16:16
Palisource: arm binary:
PaliI also looked at meego n900_libbme source and it contains maemo libbmeipc source code16:19
Paliat least library has same exported functions and my programs working with both (closed in maemo and open in meego) without problem on maemo16:19
PaliDocScrutinizer05, that info is old16:20
Paliand not for maemo5 (n900)16:20
DocScrutinizer05so is bme16:20
kerioPali: so does your hald-addon-bme work properly? how much have you tested it'16:20
Palikerio, one day - but needs new bq2415x charger driver (from git) and you must disable BME and load bq driver before HAL is starting16:21
keriowell, i assume the driver is going to be in KP5216:22
kerioand that the replacement package will add the appropriate16:22
kerio*will add the appropriate upstart scripts16:22
PaliI will rewrite hal addon to not exit if bq drivers are not loaded16:23
Paliso you will be able to load bq modules yourself via xterm16:23
kerioPali: can't you just replace the actual hald-addon-bme binary?16:23
Palino, because my does not working without bq drivers16:24
kerioso load those16:24
kerioalso, can't you just make it pretend nothing is happening without the bq drivers?16:24
PaliDocScrutinizer05, see:
keriowhat starts bme in maemo5?16:24
Palisecond one is patched for maemo bme16:24
Palikerio, upstart /etc/event.d/16:25
Palibut there are scripts which depends on "start on started bme"16:25
kerioso change the bme script16:25
Paliso you cannot remove bme package16:25
kerioto load the modules16:25
keriosure you can16:25
Palikerio, I will fix it one day16:25
Paliit is not simple as you can write!16:25
keriostarted bme is an upstart thing, it doesn't check for the actual running binary16:25
Palineed to test in qemu16:26
PaliI already created non working system in qemu because I dpkg -P bme...16:26
DocScrutinizer05Pali: thanks16:27
kerioPali: hell, easiest way: ln -s /bin/true /usr/sbin/bme_RX-5116:27
Palikerio, not16:27
Pali/bin/true is not daemon16:28
keriooh good point16:28
Paliit will exit immediately16:28
Paliand you got MALF16:28
* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to have a look into other weird packages like opneSuse sysinit5 package that nukes systemd. Might give some ideas how to do such massive changes inb system config16:28
Palikerio, again, it is not simple!16:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: in unix, how do you make a process wait indefinetely?16:28
Paliraise signal pause maybe16:29
Palior sleep very big number16:29
kerioPali: does dsme complain if you stop bme?16:29
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Palikerio, do not know16:30
kerioPali: i mean, if you initctl stop bme16:30
keriodsme stops checking for it16:31
Palinot dsme but upstart16:31
Paliupstart is handling bme respawning...16:31
Palikerio, but I will create working solution16:32
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PaliI have already needed steps in head...16:32
Palibut now I need temp data16:32
DocScrutinizer05kerio: suspend16:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: >> help suspend suspend: suspend [-f]    Suspend shell execution.        Suspend the execution of this shell until it receives a SIGCONT signal.16:34
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: i suppose it would work if you put "suspend" in place of "exec /usr/sbin/bme_RX-51" in /etc/event.d/bme16:35
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PaliDocScrutinizer05, this is only in bash16:36
DocScrutinizer05I don't know upstart too much16:36
Palisuspend is bash command not executable16:36
kerioPali: we just make something similar16:36
keriounsigned int sleep(unsigned int); int main() { while (1) sleep(3600); }16:37
DocScrutinizer05kill -SIGSTOP $$16:37
PaliI will create upstart script which will be upstart task (so send "bme started") and there will be no respawn because it will be task16:37
Paliand this script replace bme16:37
kerioPali: /usr/event.d/bme does other stuff too, though16:38
Palikerio, no16:38
Paliit is inly bme stuff16:38
kerioPali: there's some led-related stuff16:38
Palikerio, again, do not spam channel16:38
Palikerio, it is bme related16:39
DocScrutinizer05I can't see anybody spamming channel16:39
keriowhatever, sorry for trying to be helpful16:39
kerio...the grammar there doesn't sound correct16:39
Palifor help, send me temperature data16:40
DocScrutinizer05kids, play nice! we're all just hackers trying to improve our beloved baby16:41
DocScrutinizer05Pali: for helping you with temperature data, please provide proper instructions how to do that16:45
Pali1. download c source and compile it or download arm compiled binary16:46
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Pali2. run it on n900 (as normal user)16:46
Pali3. upload somewhere terminal output16:46
PaliCTRL+C terminate program16:46
Paliit collecting data infinity16:46
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Palioutput is I think self explaining16:47
DocScrutinizer05sounds good, just it's missing any real URLs for download16:47
DocScrutinizer05or simply [2012-09-10 15:18:28] <Pali> source: arm binary:
Paliok :-)16:48
Palikerio, Internal Server Error16:48
keriofpaste does that sometimes16:48
keriotry again16:48
Palinot working...16:49
DocScrutinizer05kelvin raw16:49
DocScrutinizer05   304  5416:49
keriohighlights: 304 54, 305 5316:49
keriowhat the fuck16:49
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DocScrutinizer05even worse16:51
PaliDocScrutinizer05, raw value 54 = 304°K16:52
DocScrutinizer05   304  5516:52
DocScrutinizer05   304  5416:52
DocScrutinizer05   305  5516:52
DocScrutinizer05   303  5516:52
Palithere can be problem that bme not reporting current temperature but some average...16:52
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: why do we have the same temperature?16:57
kerioget out of my house bro16:58
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I quoted your pastebin16:58
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timmayis this the channel for nokia n9 help?17:06
keriotimmay: #harmattan17:06
tadzikplease read the topic17:06
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Palivery bad, here are my data (about 1 hour) | sort -u :
Palikerio, DocScrutinizer05, see ^^^17:33
kerioPali: btw, what are the sources for the numbers?17:35
Palikerio, bme17:35
Palikerio, I tested and raw (adcin0) value is reported same as directly from kernel17:41
kerioso... how does bme calculate the other value?17:41
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Palikerio, nobody know what doing bme...17:52
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: unless you place the N900 in frige eventually, the tables from this tool won't give enough data to conclude anything from them17:55
DocScrutinizer05I mean, the Kelvin value just differs by 4° between min and max17:56
PaliI see from my logs...17:57
Palibut when I ask bme for reading CAL data for adc *temp* channel, I got raw data: 00 64 00 34 0D 2A 01 0017:57
Paliif it is data for logarithm function, then it is: gain=25600=0x6400; b=13312=0x3400; t_ref=10765=0x2A0D17:58
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: judging from L3_4 there's no such thing like factory calibration data for bat-temp. I rather guess that's some self-adjusting parameters of a PID filter18:01
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DocScrutinizer05or something completely different, like last known good impedance of battery, or even voltage vs capacity data18:02
kerioget someone good with ARM assembler to figure out what's going on18:02
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I asked bme devs for formula and they wrote me that formula depends on data from CAL, and they cannot share it with me...18:02
DocScrutinizer05we already did, but they gave up ;-P18:02
DocScrutinizer05Pali: whatever, do we really care?18:03
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keriodon't we have other temp monitors in the n900?18:03
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keriotemp monitors that don't need magic data in CAL18:04
DocScrutinizer05if those "bme devels" are so numb they can't even share a general description of what that formula does in plain english18:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: no18:04
keriowhy do we need a temp monitor anyway?18:04
DocScrutinizer05Pali: I suggest you never mind what those "bme devels" told you18:06
kerioDocScrutinizer05: because what?18:06
kerioif it's just a matter of "omg shut down everything" then we don't need accuracy18:07
DocScrutinizer05could mean everything from "I was too bored to look up what that's all about", to "the whole source got lost and we can't find it anymore" to "this is a verbatim copy of some (C) code used in cmt"18:07
DocScrutinizer05kerio: see my post above18:07
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-10 14:47:23] <DocScrutinizer05> after all this sensor is pretty inaccurate by hw design18:08
DocScrutinizer05[2012-09-10 14:48:50] <DocScrutinizer05> and given the purpose of that temperature value for system (or any other possible usecase) we are probably fine with an accuracy of +-3°C, maybe even worse18:08
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: Pali: >>charging allowed between -25°C..+50°C<< (L3_4)18:10
Paliyes, I saw it18:10
DocScrutinizer05just giving a rationale why we "need" that friggin sensor at all18:11
keriowhat happens if we charge below -25°C?18:12
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DocScrutinizer05it simply won't charge (with bme) or break the cell (when forcing charging)18:12
keriobreak the cell? D:18:12
kerioman, i sure hope i'll never try to charge while i am IN A FUCKING ICEBERG18:13
DocScrutinizer05well, cell manufs aren't vebose on what will happen if you disobey their abs max ratings18:13
kerioDocScrutinizer05: over 50°C is riskier, because that's actually kinda believable18:13
DocScrutinizer05NB that's ambient temp18:14
keriooh, then it's not believable either18:14
keriothe insides of my laptop reach 10018:14
keriothe insides of my laptop reach 100+ °C, when playing minecraft18:15
DocScrutinizer05not your battery ;-P18:15
kerioi certainly hope so18:15
DocScrutinizer05your battery is toast on 100°C18:15
keriomy battery is toast already18:15
kerio1696 cycles18:15
kerioso far18:15
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kerioand it still survives two or three hours18:15
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DocScrutinizer05not bad18:16
keriofuck yeah apple18:16
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, place your friggin N900 into fridge (NOT freezer!) next time you do such a test with that listing-proggie18:17
DocScrutinizer05a temperature change range of less than 10°C during test will not produce anything useful18:18
DocScrutinizer05(well, you even *might* try freezer, shouldn't harm device)18:18
jon_ywater condensation!18:19
DocScrutinizer05start logging, place into freezer for 15min, get it out again and continue logging for another 15min18:19
keriojon_y: in a plastic bag?18:20
DocScrutinizer05better not18:20
PaliDocScrutinizer05, I think I have formula18:20
DocScrutinizer05you migt want to wrap it into a cloth, with screen facing down, after freezer18:20
Palilog(13312, 10765)*(ADCIN0+256)+718:21
kerioyay, magic numbers18:21
DocScrutinizer05whatever that means18:21
Palilog(base, t_ref)*(ADCIN0+gain)+718:22
Palibase, t_ref and gain is from CAL18:22
kerioyou see, log is the inverse function of the exponential function18:22
DocScrutinizer05sounds like utter BS18:22
DocScrutinizer05since log(13312, 10765) is a constant18:22
PaliDSME doing real_temp = bme_temp-718:22
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Palibase, t_ref and gain I got via libbmeipc request18:23
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, I can't map this formula to my EE knowledge about NTC and ADC in any possible way18:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: clearly, you're not as good as the BME devs18:25
DocScrutinizer05and log(base, t_ref) still is a constant value based on two constant values18:25
DocScrutinizer05makes no sense18:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: those are values in CAL18:25
DocScrutinizer05kerio: yes, thanks. Seen that18:26
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keriomaybe they didn't want to store the result for convenience?18:26
keriomaybe storing two ints is easier than a float18:26
DocScrutinizer05maybe you entered trolling mode again?18:26
keriomaybe ;)18:27
keriobut seriously, if that crap fits the data...18:27
DocScrutinizer05GET DATA!18:27
DocScrutinizer05unless nothing to fit to18:27
kerioi would have to explain too many things to my parents18:27
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: otherwise nothing to fit to18:27
kerioPali: put your phone in the fridge!18:28
Palibetter is to charge phone18:28
Paliwhen charging temperature is increasing...18:28
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: what's that ^^^? binary? dpkg?18:30
PaliDocScrutinizer05, armel elf18:30
DocScrutinizer05sissies! ;-P18:30
Pali$ mad gcc temp_collect.c -o temp_collect18:31
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keriowtf is mad18:32
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kerioPali: btw, you've lost an opportunity to install a rootkit in my phone18:33
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Palimad is part of MADDE18:33
kerioPali is here!18:33
vi_kerio: mad is what you are, bro.18:34
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: wtf doesn't piping output of temp_collect work?18:34
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kerioit does?18:35
kerioor maybe
DocScrutinizer05I'm sure *my* N900 will enjoy a short chill-out18:36
kerioDocScrutinizer05: does wifi work from inside the fridge?18:37
DocScrutinizer05yes, obviously18:37
freemangordonPali: hi. sorry I didn;t answer your mail, but I was on holiday18:37
DocScrutinizer05down from    305  52   to     301  5818:38
Palihald-addon-bme is now working with bq2415x and bq27200 modules18:38
freemangordonPali: anyway, I was thinking to add BCI driver to monitor backup battery voltage and battery temperature18:38
freemangordonPali: great, how do you get battery temp?18:38
Paliread log18:38
freemangordonPali: ok18:39
DocScrutinizer05   299  6318:39
keriooh lawds18:39
DocScrutinizer05nah, wtf == your-formula18:39
Paliok, so it does not working...18:39
DocScrutinizer05   297  7018:40
DocScrutinizer05   295  7518:40
freemangordonPali: why not use libmeipc for dsme-thermalobject-surface?18:41
freemangordonor I am missing something18:42
DocScrutinizer05 293  8118:42
Palifreemangordon, because open libbmeipc is not ready yet18:42
freemangordonPali: but it only needs temp reading, everything else is in place18:42
DocScrutinizer05   292  8418:42
DocScrutinizer05  291  8718:42
Palifreemangordon,  we can always use old unpatched dsme-... it is opensource18:43
DocScrutinizer05   290  9318:43
freemangordonPali: I know, the point was that it is not the only one to use libmeipc IIRC18:43
PaliDocScrutinizer05, thanks for data18:44
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: what has happened with our "conclusion" about thermistor type?18:44
DocScrutinizer05   288 10118:44
freemangordonPali: there is a formula in kernel to calculate battery temp in bci_???? driver18:45
freemangordonit only needs a table specific for the thermistor used18:45
Palifreemangordon, show link18:45
DocScrutinizer05   287 10618:45
freemangordonand by looking in datasheets it seems that thermistor MIGHT be THP0518:46
freemangordonPali: jus a minute18:46
DocScrutinizer05   285 11318:46
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DocScrutinizer05   284 11918:47
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: we get it18:47
kerioit's not the formula that you said it wasn't18:48
DocScrutinizer05sure, you get it as long as I post it, since friggin pali's temp_reader doesn't work when piping output to a file or less or whatever18:48
DocScrutinizer05I'm delivering proper data for a LUT or binimail formula18:49
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freemangordonPali: we should be able to get LUT by using BME temp readout and calcualted resistance18:51
freemangordonBut I was planning a driver who is a subset of twl4030_bci_battery and exports temp and backup battery voltage througe /sys/power/...18:52
freemangordons/ througe/through/18:52
infobotfreemangordon meant: But I was planning a driver who is a subset of twl4030_bci_battery and exports temp and backup battery voltagethrough /sys/power/...18:52
Palisounds good18:53
freemangordonthat way libbmeipc will get battery temp from kernel18:54
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freemangordoninstead or returning hardcoded 35 deg as of now :D18:54
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PaliI already have formula for converting ADCIN12 (raw battery voltage) to mV18:54
Palidisassembled from bsi-read maemo armel binary18:55
freemangordonPali: the whole formula is in the kernel, look ath the link I posted18:55
freemangordonvoltage is not sufficient18:55
freemangordonyou need current too :)18:55
DocScrutinizer05  281 133;     280 138;  279 144;   278 151;   277 160;   276 169;  275 175;   274 182;   273 187;18:55
freemangordonPali: is that supposed to be Kelvin/Celsius?18:56
freemangordonthe values doc is posting18:56
Palikelvin raw18:56
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wait, your fridge gets to 0°C?18:57
DocScrutinizer05   272 194;freezer18:57
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Paliwe can patch twl-adc kernel driver to report our raw value and then ask bme for converted :D18:59
jacekowskikerio: mine goes to under 0C18:59
keriojacekowski: but your milk will be frozen!18:59
jacekowskikerio: i can leave stuff in it on bottom shelf and it will freeze18:59
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freemangordonPali: why, we have a fully functional BCI driver, we just need to strip (or #if BCI_BATTERY_FULL) what is unneeded19:03
freemangordonPali: I've already have a working backup battery voltage reading driver19:03
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infobotfreemangordon meant: Pali: I already have a working backup battery voltage reading driver19:04
freemangordonPali: But I want new -thumb out before doing it19:04
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freemangordonwhich reminds me...19:05
DocScrutinizer05   271 208;   270 218;   269 227;   268 236;   267 248;   266 259;19:05
kerioDocScrutinizer05: put it in the oven now!19:06
Palinow other question: have all N900 same thermal chip?19:07
Paliare these values correct for all N900 or only for DocScrutinizer05 one?19:07
freemangordonPali: elborate please, as battery temp is read using adcin219:07
Palifreemangordon, no, battery temperature is adcin019:08
freemangordonyeah, right, my bad19:08
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freemangordonPali: can you rework your tem_read (or whatever the name is) to output the values for the resistance according to the formula in the kernel?19:09
freemangordonin parallel with BME temp reading?19:10
freemangordonPali: so we will be able to find what R/T LUT is19:10
DocScrutinizer05can you inport as CSV to a spreadsheet and calculate it there?19:10
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: we dont have BME temp there AIUI19:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^19:11
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DocScrutinizer05AIUI it's bmetemp/ADCIN0_raw tuples19:12
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ADCIN0 is not enough, we need resistance19:13
freemangordoni.e. we need current too19:13
DocScrutinizer05no, we don't since that's not anything we can readout19:13
DocScrutinizer05it's a constant19:13
DocScrutinizer05or rather, even a function of resistance of NTC19:14
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^19:14
DocScrutinizer05you expect a EE to read C sourcecode to gather what non-EE figured how a resistive divider works?19:15
freemangordon"/* Getting and calculating the supply current in micro ampers */"19:15
freemangordonthat ^^^19:15
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DocScrutinizer05Uout==ADC-result==Uin(const) * NTC / (R1(const) + NTC)19:16
freemangordonnot the code, but what it does. Reads the current :)19:16
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: get off your high and beautifully engineered horse19:16
DocScrutinizer05NTC => Negative_Temperature_Coefficient --> the lower the temperature, the higher the NTC resistance in Ohms, in above formula19:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no matter if the current is constant, we still need to find it. Though we can use voltage only (when the current is constant) it looks ugly. And you're not guaranteed it is really constant19:18
DocScrutinizer05argo: lower temperature -> higher ADCIN0 reading19:18
freemangordonwe don;t know what happens on suspend/resume, etc19:19
DocScrutinizer05current is NOT constant19:19
freemangordonthat is why we need to read it19:19
DocScrutinizer05Ivar = U(const) / (R1(const) + NTC(var))19:20
DocScrutinizer05you CAN NOT read current19:20
freemangordonthough IIRC ADCIN0 is current generator (or whatever the english term is)19:20
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DocScrutinizer05it's a function of NTC and it has no other input to read it than ADCIN019:20
DocScrutinizer05afaik it's not19:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: lemme check in datasheet19:21
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DocScrutinizer05whatever it is, it's pretty simple to calculate proper values for R1, Uin and NTC curve, from above pasted table I just created19:21
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DocScrutinizer05if it's actually claiming to be constant-current-source, you're fine with assuming Uin=200V and R1=200kR19:22
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: if I read the doc correctly adcin1 is "current source"19:22
DocScrutinizer05or whatever you like to use for that19:22
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DocScrutinizer05in the end it all just doesn't matter19:23
freemangordonyeah, but it is better to read what the curent si (or expected to be), than hardcoding the table as U/T19:24
DocScrutinizer05I strongly suggest to use a LUT for true ADCIN reading vs temperature in Kelvin, and interpolate between the maybe 32 support points19:24
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: disagree, it is better to build a R/T LUT, no matter the number of points19:25
freemangordonas "current source" can have several settings for current19:25
DocScrutinizer05if you really had understood the formula, you'd also see it's pretty simple to convert that LUT for whatever you like19:27
freemangordonsure, what I am saying is we should use R/T from the start19:27
DocScrutinizer05and there's no sound rationale to use a LUT and then process that via a formula that only uses constants19:27
DocScrutinizer05everybody would go "WTF? why didn't they do this calculation pre-compiletime??"19:28
freemangordonbecause the current is not known by the time of compilation19:28
DocScrutinizer05IT IS!19:28
freemangordongimme a minute to find adcin1 current source register in docs19:29
DocScrutinizer05there's only one sane setting for current, with this NTC and this temperature range19:29
DocScrutinizer05I don't give a shit about it19:29
DocScrutinizer05I'm pretty sure Nokia already used optimal setting19:29
DocScrutinizer05and we don't need to use any other than that19:29
freemangordonwell, if you don't give a shit about docs, I don;t see a point continuing that conversation with you :). And I am pretty sure TI know how their chips work way better than Nokia19:30
freemangordonnot to say I don;t see a pint to make yet another BME19:31
DocScrutinizer05I'm pretty sure I know about resistive devicers better than you19:31
DocScrutinizer05as is your bitching about current19:31
kerioDocScrutinizer05: ad auctoritatem?19:31
freemangordonno, it is not. what I am saying is that it can be done in your way (voltage reading only), but it will be ugly19:32
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: you appear to be leaking air from somewhere19:32
DocScrutinizer05obfuscated c contest or what?19:32
DocScrutinizer05it will be ugly to use sophisticated formula for calculating current that **has only one usable setting for this circuit**19:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: we are talking about kernel driver here :S19:35
DocScrutinizer05any other setting will result in ADC range at the limits for the temperature range we're interested in19:35
DocScrutinizer05so what?19:35
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DocScrutinizer05the rationale of particular circuit/NTC-type needs ONE particular R1 or current setting to operate ADC in proper range is universal19:36
freemangordonI won't save 5 instructions if I can do it in the "right" way. Hardcoding wor a particualr setup is deffinitely not that "right" way19:36
DocScrutinizer05no reason to add cruft to allow runtime parameters for that, not even in kernel drivers19:37
freemangordondid you look at the code?19:37
DocScrutinizer05no, runtime calculating boarb-parameter specific stuff is not the right way19:38
freemangordonthen it should go in board specific files, not in the main driver19:38
freemangordonas it is bci_battery, not rx51_bci_battery19:39
DocScrutinizer05there's exactly one setting for current, in every hardware. No way to switch that for whatever reasons during runtime. So pretty please don't use this setting as a input var for runtime calculations19:39
freemangordonstill don't get why. larger code or what?19:40
DocScrutinizer05since it *will never cahnge* at runtime19:40
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DocScrutinizer05such things get calculated at compile time19:40
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: see, the way I write code is something like: write it in a way so you can reuse it in the future. Feel free to write that driver according to your understandings19:41
DocScrutinizer05if your friggin code isn't reusable when you can't do calculations on target that belong into #define, then I dunno what your code looks like19:42
freemangordonanyway, I am losing too much time arguing19:43
DocScrutinizer05yeah, better write crappy code than do crappy arguing19:44
DocScrutinizer05that's what I thought19:44
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DocScrutinizer05of course you can calculate Uout==ADC-result==Uin(const) * NTC / (R1(const) + NTC) at runtime, alas I think nobody will understand the reason why this has to eat up any CPU cycles, since NTC->temp  comes from a LUT anyway, and it's the only vatiable in that formula, since R1 is CONSTANT!19:48
DocScrutinizer05aka board-parameter-specific19:48
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you can do that calculation *once* though19:48
Paliseems that bci-battery code is not in upstream kernel...19:49
Palidriver is only in maemo kernel19:49
* DocScrutinizer05 wonder why ;-P19:49
freemangordonPali: yes, there are several patches sent to lkml, like bci_charger, etc. Seems none have made it19:50
Palibci_charger is upstreamed19:50
Palibut there is no therm_tbl table19:51
freemangordonPali: it is board specific19:51
freemangordondriver gets it through platform data19:51
Paliin maemo kernel there is code for therm_tbl, but not in upstream kerne19:51
freemangordonhmm, is there temp readout at all?19:52
Palibci_charger do not get any these data19:52
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Palithere is no temperature code19:53
freemangordonhmm, clever :)19:53
freemangordonPali: madc-hwmon?19:53
freemangordon(or whatever the driver name was)19:54
Paliit reading only raw value, but from adcin1 channel19:54
Palinot usable on n900 too19:54
freemangordonyes, that is the correct channel19:54
Palino, n900 has adcin019:55
freemangordoncould that be the reason your temp_input fails?19:55
freemangordonPali: no, it is adcin119:55
freemangordonlemme check once again19:55
Palisee Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf19:55
PaliADCIN0 - temp19:55
PaliBME also using ADCIN019:56
freemangordonfrom TRM:19:56
freemangordonADCIN0 External Battery type (BTYPE)19:56
freemangordonADCIN1 External BCI: Battery temperature (BTEMP)19:56
DocScrutinizer05Pali: one is BSI (often used as in-battery temperature sensor, NOT on N900 though), the other is true battery temp sensor19:56
PaliI asked BME for raw value of temperature and it returns me same value as twl4030 adcin0 kernel driver19:57
freemangordonPali: NFC, that is what is written in TPS65950 TRM19:58
PaliADCIN4 is BSI (from Nokia_N900_RX-51_Schematics.pdf)19:58
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: according to my scheamtics ADCIN0 is "Bettry Temeprature Sensor"  BTEMP R1110 on ball H420:02
DocScrutinizer05ADCIN4 is BSI20:03
PaliI already wrote this20:03
DocScrutinizer05ADCIN1 isn't used20:03
DocScrutinizer05yes, you wrote that20:04
freemangordonwell, something does not make sense here, in all TI docs it is ADCIN1 that is used for battery temp sensor, while ADCIN0 is either Battery Type or GP20:04
Palihm, ADCIN1 returns value 34 or 3520:04
Palion my n90020:04
Palinote that TI docs are for GP devices, not HS20:05
Palimaybe some stupid changes for Nokia or by Nokia...20:05
freemangordonPali: it is for TWL4030, it does not matter GP/HS AIUI20:05
DocScrutinizer05Pali: the "stupid change" is called schematics, or design20:06
DocScrutinizer05Nokia is free to use the chip in whatever way they feel may fit their needs20:06
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: makes no sense, all of the monitoring is done on ADCIN120:06
Paliother question, do we know how to get design battery capacity from BSI raw value?20:07
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: why? iirc it is some resistor there20:07
freemangordon(if connected)20:08
Paliwe have armel binary bsi-read and it show me: raw BSI: 463, BSI: 99020:08
PaliI already looked at that binary for BSI and is using some tables for conversation20:08
DocScrutinizer05so this binary at least pretends to 'know'20:08
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Palibut what BSI: 990 means?20:08
keriohehe, a table for conversation20:09
DocScrutinizer05and obviously it's quite off with its "knowledge", since battery isn't 990mAh20:09
DocScrutinizer05neither Ohm nor kOhms20:09
DocScrutinizer05maybe Nokia internal battery product number ;-P20:10
Paliare values for BSI here correct?20:11
freemangordonanyway, AFAIK there is internal resistor in every battery which is related to its capacity20:11
DocScrutinizer05since there are no Nokia alternatives for BL-5J, it's moot to speculate how to derive bat capacity from BSI. There's no real life instance to proof any hypothesis against20:11
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: mine bl5j is 1430 mAh20:12
Palifreemangordon, run bsi-read20:12
Palias root20:12
freemangordonis it preinstalled?20:12
DocScrutinizer05to get what?20:12
freemangordonNokia-N900:~# bsi-read20:13
freemangordonraw BSI ADC reading: 49320:13
DocScrutinizer05the product tolerance of BSI resistor?20:13
freemangordonBSI: 111420:13
freemangordonraw battery level: 63020:13
freemangordonbattery level: 369520:13
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freemangordonPali: bingo20:13
DocScrutinizer05bingo what?20:13
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: BSI resistor should be in linear dependance with capacity20:14
DocScrutinizer05says who?20:14
jacekowskiwell, you can kinda expect that they use same BSI values for all batteries20:15
DocScrutinizer05no you can't20:15
PaliRAW and BSI which are printed by bsi-read are not linear20:15
DocScrutinizer05so what?20:15
PaliI looked into asm code and there is lot of math code for converting20:15
DocScrutinizer05does this leave us any wiser? regarding what ?20:15
freemangordonbattery capacity20:16
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, and it converts to nokia internal virtual birthday of Elop20:16
DocScrutinizer05obviously it's totally wrong even for BL-5J20:16
DocScrutinizer05are you calculating Pi or what?20:17
freemangordonPali: you use 1360 Mah battery, ain't?20:18
Palistandard bl5j20:18
DocScrutinizer05well, like we all do20:18
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: no, as I already told you mine is 1430 mAh20:18
DocScrutinizer05uhuh, and certified by Nokia I assume20:18
freemangordonI took it from asha20:19
freemangordonoriginal Nokia20:19
Palilshal | grep design20:19
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: google a bit, all new bl5j batteries are 143020:19 = 125820:19
freemangordon = 1415  (0x587)  (int)20:20
keriofreemangordon: are those better than a scud blue dream?20:20
freemangordonPali: WTF? why 1258?20:20
DocScrutinizer05ooh, so we actually have a certified Nokia real life instance to test against, fine! then we *might* RE their formula20:20
Palino idea20:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: yes20:20
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: can you run the same bsi-read?20:21
freemangordonit is preinstalled20:21
DocScrutinizer05raw BSI ADC reading: 46620:21
DocScrutinizer05BSI: 100220:21
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: lshal | grep design ?20:22
DocScrutinizer05 = 1276  (0x4fc)  (int)20:22
freemangordonhere it is20:23
freemangordon<freemangordon> = 1415  (0x587)  (int)20:23
freemangordonthough their formule seems a little bit incorrect20:23
Paliwhen I call bsi-read more times, it show me different BSI20:24
Palifreemangordon, better try to disassemble that bsi-read under ida20:25
freemangordonPali: not here, they remain the same20:25
freemangordonPali: hehe20:25
* freemangordon is going to cook some dinner, bbl20:25
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PaliI used objdump and I only disassembled that battery level20:26
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Palibattery level = (((((2099203 - (1LL<<31)) * level * 6000) >> 32) - ((level * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (level * 6000)) >> 9)20:26
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Palino idea what this is, but it is in that armel binary...20:27
kerioquestion: should i buy a polarcell or not?20:27
DocScrutinizer05Pali: bsi-read battery level looks like mV20:28
Paliyes, it could be20:29
Palibut what that formula means???20:29
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DocScrutinizer05~630 * 5.8620:31
Palisome good approximation of that formula could be: battery level = level * 3003 / 51220:31
Palibut it is not same20:31
Paliand about BSI, seems that design_capacity/BSI is 1.2620:32
Pali1415/1114=1.2701 1258/994=1.2655 1276/1002=1.273420:33
Palior 1.2720:33
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DocScrutinizer05IroN900:/home/user/MyDocs/tmp# level=630 echo $(( (((((2099203 - (1<<31)) * level * 6000) >> 32) - ((level * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (level * 6000)) >> 9) ))20:34
FIQ how come this is empty?20:34
DocScrutinizer05~630 * 5.8620:35
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GeneralAntillesFIQ, somebody broke the aggregator.20:35
Pali~(((((2099203 - (1<<31)) * 630 * 6000) >> 32) - ((630 * 6000 << 1) >> 32) + (630 * 6000)) >> 9)20:37
GeneralAntillesMan, I forgot all of my Bugzilla URL kung-fu.20:38
FIQneed account for that apparently20:38
DocScrutinizer05PALI!!! you killed her!20:38
DocScrutinizer05prolly she's still calculating ;-P20:39
Palidead or alive?20:39
Palishe should go back to school :-)20:40
GeneralAntillesActually, this is the one I want.
DocScrutinizer05...and cheers20:42
povbotBug 12663: is missing the news content20:43
GeneralAntilles(if somebody wants to confirm it, that'd be great)20:44
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: just in case you need some more support points for your LUT:
Paliok, thanks21:32
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PaliI started writing simple power supply driver which export temperature and voltage via sysfs21:32
Palivery simple21:32
spoofyHi. Can someone compile postgres for maemo? Anyone solved the problem of postgresql and metasploit?21:34
spoofyI tried to compile postgres (9.2beta) in scratchbox but I can't make .deb package21:38
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freemangordonPali: why not reuse bci_battery?22:07
PaliI do not know why22:07
Paliwhat you can reuse?22:07
freemangordontemp reading and backup battery voltage22:08
freemangordonPali: btw there is nor hexrays for ARM (in IDA i have here)22:09
infobotfreemangordon meant: Pali: btw there is no hexrays for ARM (in IDA i have here)22:09
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Palifor battery voltage we already have formula22:09
freemangordonso not much of a difference between IDA and objdump22:09
freemangordonPali: backup battery ;)22:09
freemangordonPali: and it is integrated as a platform driver with twl403022:10
freemangordonand registers itself as power_supply22:10
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freemangordonjust #ifdef the main battery/charger code , add temp table in rx51_peripherals.c and you're good to go22:12
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timelessfwiw, the answer to my question about Paul Lee Phil or whatever is apparently polyfill and not polyfil22:15
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freemangordonthis is mine stripped down version22:16
timelessand the prize for getting it wrong is awarded to android22:16
freemangordonPali: it reads backup battery voltage22:16
freemangordonPali: you will need also in board-rx51-peripherals.c22:18
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freemangordonPali: and you'll need to add .bci= &rx51_bci_data,22:18
freemangordonin rx51_twldata22:19
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freemangordonPali: though that was quick'n'dirty way to check if backup battery is charged at all22:19
freemangordonso you may find a batter way to integrate it22:19
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ZogG_laptopsup guys22:46
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keriowhat is the nokia-binaries repo supposed to be?23:07
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Sicelobtw, that MyDocs should be named after the Bluetooth name in File Manager seems a weird decision23:35
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keriowell, that's the only "name of the phone"23:43
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freemangordonPali: the formula to convert BSI raw value to BSI value is (1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw)23:51
Palinice :-)23:52
Pali990 is correct23:53
Palisounds good23:54
freemangordonsounds correct :D23:54
Paliso raw bsi to design capacity is: 1.27*(1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw)23:54
freemangordonthough I think 1.27 is a bit incorrect23:54
freemangordona bit too low23:55
Pali1415/1114=1.2701 1258/994=1.2655 1276/1002=1.273423:55
freemangordonPali: are you sure your battery is genuine nokia 1360 mAh?23:55
PaliI did not changed battery23:55
Paliseems that bme using 1.27xxx23:57
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freemangordonPali: yes23:58
freemangordonPali: should be 1.2823:58
freemangordonmy battery is 1430 mAh23:59
freemangordonand I get either 1114 or 111823:59

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