IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-09-11

Pali	1272 could be	00:00
freemangordon	Pali: how is that, it should be 1360	00:00
freemangordon	IIRC	00:00
Pali	it is not 1260?	00:00
Pali	or 1270?	00:00
freemangordon	no	00:00
freemangordon	no	00:00
kerio	i just disabled the sdk and nokia-binaries repos :D	00:01
freemangordon	Pali: 1320	00:01
freemangordon	:D	00:01
freemangordon	checked on my second n900	00:01
Pali	I remebmer that I read somewhere that bl5j batteries in n900 was not 13xx but only 12[6\|7]0	00:01
freemangordon	it is written 1320	00:02
freemangordon	and according to what I remember from battery thread on tmo, it is around that value	00:02
freemangordon	th real capacity	00:02
freemangordon	Pali: something is fishy here	00:04
freemangordon	but anyway, that is how bsi-read calculates BSI	00:05
ShadowJK	iirc bme reported capacity for me has been around 1250	00:07
kerio	BSI: 998	00:07
kerio	D:	00:07
ShadowJK	for orig bl-5j	00:07
freemangordon	ShadowJK: but it should be around 1320	00:07
kerio	for original bl-5j	00:07
Pali	freemangordon, bq27200 chip never reported more than 1250 after learning cycles...	00:08
freemangordon	kerio: and what is the output from lshal \| grep design	00:08
freemangordon	Pali: ok, but how old is your battery?	00:09
*** NGNUton-B has joined #maemo		00:09
kerio	1269	00:09
kerio	4200 voltage	00:09
Pali	year 2009	00:09
freemangordon	Pali: see	00:09
kerio	i don't know how old mine is	00:09
Pali	is there any date?	00:09
kerio	but it's still pretty good	00:09
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC		00:09
ShadowJK	freemangordon; i've never seen .design of bl-5j above 1300.. and never seen actual capacities above 1250-ish either :)	00:10
* kerio had an actual capacity of 1312mAh		00:10
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		00:10
freemangordon	ShadowJK: but according to TMO thread the capacity is really around 1315	00:10
kerio	now dropped to 1249	00:10
ShadowJK	actual capacity on all of my Nokia BL-5J are about 1000mAh these days :)	00:11
kerio	should i buy one of those 1500mAh batteries from germany?	00:11
freemangordon	hehe. but this is not the same as design capacity :P	00:11
*** NGNUton-B has quit IRC		00:12
*** GNUton-BNC has joined #maemo		00:12
freemangordon	~1320/998	00:12
infobot	1.322645290581	00:12
Pali	ShadowJK, I still have about 1200	00:13
freemangordon	~1430/1114	00:13
infobot	1.283662477558	00:13
freemangordon	the fuck	00:13
freemangordon	Pali: I think we can use at least 1.28	00:13
freemangordon	~1118.0*1.28	00:14
infobot	1431.04	00:14
freemangordon	perfect	00:14
freemangordon	~1114.0*1.28	00:14
infobot	1425.92	00:14
*** em has quit IRC		00:15
*** setanta has quit IRC		00:15
freemangordon	seems that on original batteries BSI resistor is badly calibrated. Or they are not 1320 mAh :D	00:16
freemangordon	~998*1.28	00:16
infobot	1277.44	00:16
freemangordon	~1002*1.28	00:17
infobot	1282.56	00:17
ShadowJK	or then thry didn't want to order odd value resistors and picked whatever was closest	00:17
freemangordon	yeah, could be	00:17
freemangordon	but 1.28 gives the correct capacity for my 1430 mAh BL5J	00:18
freemangordon	~1114*1.32	00:18
infobot	1470.48	00:18
*** reenignEesreveR has quit IRC		00:22
*** florian has quit IRC		00:22
ShadowJK	what resistance does that work out to?	00:23
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		00:23
freemangordon	ShadowJK: not sure I understand, would you rephrase?	00:23
ShadowJK	I'm more familiar with resistance to mAh rather than adc reading?	00:25
freemangordon	ShadowJK: don;t know, never measuer it	00:25
freemangordon	measured*	00:26
*** konelix has quit IRC		00:28
ShadowJK	anyway, I have a vague memory that the relationship of resistance to capacity wasn't linear, and then when we're measuring the voltage of a voltage divider where bsi forms one part, the voltage reading isn't linear either	00:28
ShadowJK	so I'd think there's atleast a + or - term missing somewhere :P	00:29
*** konelix__ has joined #maemo		00:29
freemangordon	ShadowJK: well, (1200*bsi_raw)/(1024-bsi_raw) is EXACTLY what bsi-read does	00:30
freemangordon	don't know about BME though	00:30
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		00:31
freemangordon	though x/(a-x) is not exactly linear :)	00:31
freemangordon	(IIRC)	00:31
freemangordon	too lazy now to fire matlab to get the exact graphic :)	00:33
*** konelix has joined #maemo		00:33
ShadowJK	what does that return for bl-5j 1320?	00:35
*** konelix__ has quit IRC		00:35
freemangordon	around 1000	00:35
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		00:35
freemangordon	Pali's is 990, while doc's is 1002	00:36
freemangordon	kerio has 998	00:36
Pali	982-990	00:37
*** konelix has quit IRC		00:38
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		00:40
*** konelix has joined #maemo		00:40
*** hardaker has quit IRC		00:42
* ShadowJK forgets if it was BL-5J or BP-4L that measures 100kR		00:45
ShadowJK	1.2V = 1200, 1024 for 10 bit ADC?	00:46
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		00:46
freemangordon	http://tinypic.com/r/95pz68/6	00:47
*** beford has quit IRC		00:47
freemangordon	deffinitely not linear	00:48
*** piggz has quit IRC		00:48
ShadowJK	i dont remember the schematics	00:49
ShadowJK	but bsi-read might be trying to read the resistance of the bsi resistor, and probably makes no attempt at converting it to mAh?	00:49
freemangordon	ShadowJK: deffinitely, it gives some BSI: value, whatever it means	00:50
ShadowJK	and I suspect for mAh it's going to be something like mAh = (bsiR + a) * b + c	00:51
*** teotwaki has quit IRC		00:51
freemangordon	ShadowJK: bsiR? raw or resistance	00:51
ShadowJK	resistance	00:52
*** Free-MG has quit IRC		00:52
freemangordon	could be, but why BME reports incorrect values then?	00:53
freemangordon	battery.reporting.design = 1415 here, for 1430 mAh battery	00:54
freemangordon	it is even worse for original batteries	00:54
freemangordon	1250-1270 for 1320 mAh battery	00:55
ShadowJK	As for the original bl-5j, 1250 is more truthful :)	00:56
ShadowJK	but I've seen variation from boot to boot bigger than 1430-1415	00:56
freemangordon	it might be that resistance depends on the temperature, thus variations	00:58
ShadowJK	For purposes of determining optimal charge current, +-100 is sufficient too..	00:58
freemangordon	anyway, I am off for sleep	00:59
freemangordon	night	00:59
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		01:00
ShadowJK	nini	01:00
*** beford has joined #maemo		01:02
jacekowski	freemangordon: well, resistors have tolerances	01:02
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo		01:05
*** Vibe has quit IRC		01:07
*** trx has quit IRC		01:08
*** trx has joined #maemo		01:11
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		01:14
*** chenca has quit IRC		01:15
*** SmilyOrg has quit IRC		01:16
*** trx has quit IRC		01:18
*** thetet has quit IRC		01:19
*** trx has joined #maemo		01:24
*** hardaker has quit IRC		01:29
*** Vib3 has joined #maemo		01:38
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		01:42
*** konelix has quit IRC		01:42
*** Vib3 has quit IRC		01:43
*** rm_work has quit IRC		01:46
*** Ionakka has quit IRC		01:50
Pali	here is source code kernel driver which export voltage, temperature and design capacity: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/rx51_battery.c	01:52
Pali	tested and seems working fine	01:53
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		01:55
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		01:57
*** Pali has quit IRC		02:07
*** mvp_ has quit IRC		02:08
*** loganbr has quit IRC		02:10
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		02:10
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		02:14
*** valerius has quit IRC		02:21
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo		02:22
*** Ex-Opesa has quit IRC		02:23
*** Smily has joined #maemo		02:25
*** Muelli has quit IRC		02:33
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		02:35
*** Kilroo has quit IRC		02:37
*** Jade has quit IRC		02:40
*** otep_ has joined #maemo		02:41
*** otep has quit IRC		02:42
*** valerius has joined #maemo		02:42
*** otep_ is now known as otep		02:45
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo		02:45
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		02:47
*** loganbr has joined #maemo		02:49
*** eijk_ has quit IRC		02:49
*** Rantwolf has quit IRC		02:54
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		02:59
*** APTX_ is now known as APTX		03:03
DocScrutinizer05	<freemangordon> seems that on original batteries BSI resistor is badly calibrated. Or they are not 1320 mAh :D #### Or the whole assumption is moot, and BSI isn't really defined in any proper way at all	03:19
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		03:30
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		03:30
DocScrutinizer05	BP-4L: 120kR, nom.cap. 1500mAh. BL-4U: 80.4kR, nom.cap. 1000mAh. BL-5J: 99.1kR, nom.cap: 1320mAh	03:35
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		03:36
DocScrutinizer05	all @23°C	03:39
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers#Can_nokia_phones_use.2Fcharge_gta01.2Fgta02_batteries.3F :: >>BL-6C?? (actual measured value on a cold (25C) battery is 75k, on a slightly warm battery - 82k)<<	03:42
DocScrutinizer05	so it seems BSI is only useful together with proper bat-temp, at least for some battery types	03:43
DocScrutinizer05	and since different NTC/PTC (80kR, 100kR, 120kR) also may have different T/R characteristic, probably BSI formula is more or less undefined on any but a certain nominal temperature (like 22°C)	03:46
DocScrutinizer05	~1000/80.4	03:47
infobot	12.437810945274	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	~1500/120	03:47
infobot	12.5	03:47
DocScrutinizer05	~1320/99.1	03:48
infobot	13.319878910192	03:48
DocScrutinizer05	@-15°C: BP-4L: 120kR	03:49
DocScrutinizer05	@-15°C: BL-4: 80kR	03:50
*** atlas has quit IRC		03:50
DocScrutinizer05	@-15°C: BL-4U: 80kR	03:50
DocScrutinizer05	@-15°C: BL-5J: 99kR	03:52
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC		03:53
DocScrutinizer05	conclusion: for all three types there's no thermistor used, unlike BL-5C. For BP-4L and BL-4U there seems to be a consistent multiplier for BSI_kR * $multiplier_12.5 = Capacity_mAh	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	not though for BL-5J	03:56
DocScrutinizer05	~90.1 * 12.5	03:57
infobot	1126.25	03:57
DocScrutinizer05	for BL-4/5/6D above formula may or may not apply (@22°C), alas no proper genuine Nokia of this model at hand right now	04:00
DocScrutinizer05	noteworthy detail: BL-xD has flat-pad contacts, while the three other types have compatible spring loaded bracket in slot contacts	04:03
DocScrutinizer05	all three marked "(+) (-) ( ) 3.7V"	04:05
DocScrutinizer05	all my BL-5J are marked 1320mAh	04:08
*** totalizator has quit IRC		04:16
*** valerius has quit IRC		04:17
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC		04:19
DocScrutinizer05	dang, now I recall I already did all this some 3 or 4 years ago	04:26
DocScrutinizer05	and seems my today's conclusion is same like back then: There are several different methods/alrgorithms, even concepts (Thermistor) used on this obscure 3rd pin of batteries. And thus it's not really useful for anything, except maybe for differentiating between old and newer improved builds of one particular model of a battery	04:29
*** valerius has joined #maemo		04:36
DocScrutinizer05	hell, we even take assumptions, when we take "Battery SIZE Indicator" for granted. Might just be a unfortunate incorrect wording kept for histroical reasons. Who says this isn't meant to maybe signal allowable charge current, like ShadowJK suggested. If that's the case, this value may loosely correlate to battery capacity but basically is useless for the very purpose to calculate exact capacity from it then, since different cell	04:38
DocScrutinizer05	builds may take different relative max charge current, like 0.5C, 0.7C, 1C, even 2C	04:38
*** nox- has quit IRC		04:38
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		04:48
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo		04:54
*** uen\| has joined #maemo		05:01
*** radic has quit IRC		05:04
*** radic_ has joined #maemo		05:04
*** radic_ is now known as radic		05:04
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		05:05
*** uen has quit IRC		05:05
*** uen\| is now known as uen		05:05
*** fredrinLap has quit IRC		05:23
*** stardiviner has quit IRC		05:28
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo		05:38
*** pcfe` has quit IRC		05:38
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo		05:38
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:42
*** disco_stu_droid has joined #maemo		05:43
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		05:46
*** disco_stu_droid is now known as disco_stu		05:47
ShadowJK	well a rough capacity indication would be useful for setting charge current	05:50
ShadowJK	as for fuel gauging, I'd say a rough indicaion is sufficient because real capacity is way off anyway, especially when you take bme's early shutdown thresholds into account	05:51
ShadowJK	ther's probaly a magic bsi range for signaling "device in jig" too	05:52
*** utanapischti has quit IRC		05:54
*** CodenameStrike-N has joined #maemo		05:55
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC		06:02
*** CodenameStrike-N has quit IRC		06:15
DocScrutinizer05	yes. it's frequently referred to as "test battery" or "service battery"	06:24
*** stardiviner has joined #maemo		06:25
*** hardaker has quit IRC		06:29
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC		06:35
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo		06:35
*** jhb has quit IRC		06:42
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		06:45
*** hardaker has quit IRC		06:50
*** jhb has joined #maemo		06:55
*** em has joined #maemo		07:02
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo		07:08
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC		07:09
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo		07:21
*** psychologe has joined #maemo		07:28
*** psychologe has quit IRC		07:29
*** daniel_1 has quit IRC		07:48
*** daniel_1 has joined #maemo		07:48
*** Ex-Opesa has joined #maemo		08:02
*** Rantwolf has joined #maemo		08:47
*** eMHa has quit IRC		09:26
*** Muelli has joined #maemo		09:31
*** teotwaki has quit IRC		09:47
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo		09:49
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		09:51
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo		09:54
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		09:55
*** MacDrunk has left #maemo		09:55
*** Smily has quit IRC		09:59
*** Smily has joined #maemo		09:59
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		10:03
*** Venemo_N9 has joined #maemo		10:04
*** e-yes has quit IRC		10:15
*** Muelli has quit IRC		10:17
*** Psi_ has quit IRC		10:19
*** beford has quit IRC		10:25
*** Pali has joined #maemo		10:31
*** Psi has joined #maemo		10:31
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo		10:36
*** valerius has quit IRC		10:38
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		10:46
*** andre__ has quit IRC		10:46
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		10:46
*** rcg-work has joined #maemo		10:47
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		10:47
*** pcfe` is now known as pcfe		10:48
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC		10:50
*** andre__ has quit IRC		10:51
*** Venemo_N9 has quit IRC		10:53
*** shadeslayer has quit IRC		10:53
*** valerius has joined #maemo		10:54
*** MacDrunk has joined #maemo		10:55
*** shadeslayer has joined #maemo		10:57
*** Ash786 has joined #maemo		10:58
*** MacDrunk has left #maemo		10:58
freemangordon	Pali: why is temp table only 45 elements?	10:58
freemangordon	Pali: in rx51_battery.c that is	11:00
Pali	because temperature data was between -9°C and 44°C	11:00
Pali	there is 55 values (not 45)	11:00
Pali	for each temperature values there is min raw value in table	11:01
freemangordon	ok, 55, not 45. the point is you should not return EINVAL for temperatures outside the range -9-45	11:01
Pali	and what?	11:02
freemangordon	you either return min/max (i.e. -9/45) or do some approximation	11:02
freemangordon	latter is better. do you have matlab?	11:02
Pali	not now/here	11:03
freemangordon	hmm, ok, do you have graph presenation of the table? I need it to decide on polinomial order that will be used for approximation for values outside the range	11:04
freemangordon	the idea is - for the range -9 - 45 use the table	11:04
freemangordon	otherwise use approximation	11:04
freemangordon	Pali: http://www.mathworks.com/help/techdoc/ref/polyfit.html	11:06
freemangordon	I think that was the correct one to use	11:06
Pali	I draw plot with gnuplot and function raw->°K seems to be exp	11:07
Pali	something like aexp(-xb)+c	11:07
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		11:08
*** Skry has quit IRC		11:10
*** rcg-work has quit IRC		11:10
*** valeriusL has joined #maemo		11:12
*** Skry has joined #maemo		11:13
*** dhbiker has quit IRC		11:14
*** valerius has quit IRC		11:17
*** rcg-work has joined #maemo		11:21
*** norayr has joined #maemo		11:22
*** norayr has quit IRC		11:28
freemangordon	Pali: -0.00000003843332 0.00002923219357 -0.00840590603944 1.20658776300563 -39.86091438724600	11:31
freemangordon	4th order polinomial	11:31
Pali	coefficients are too small	11:32
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo		11:32
freemangordon	don't we have FP?	11:33
*** drussell has joined #maemo		11:33
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		11:33
Pali	is precision is enought?	11:34
freemangordon	lemme upload the graph	11:34
freemangordon	http://i46.tinypic.com/2r26n2t.jpg	11:35
*** valerius has joined #maemo		11:36
freemangordon	yellow stars are table data	11:36
freemangordon	purple is approximation	11:36
*** eijk has joined #maemo		11:37
freemangordon	Pali: ^^^	11:37
*** Pali has quit IRC		11:41
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		11:50
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		11:50
*** totalizator has joined #maemo		11:51
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		11:52
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo		11:55
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		11:56
*** florian_kc has quit IRC		11:56
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo		11:56
*** florian_kc is now known as florian		11:57
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		11:58
*** norayr has joined #maemo		11:59
*** jabis has quit IRC		12:03
*** jabis has joined #maemo		12:04
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		12:05
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		12:06
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		12:08
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		12:09
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		12:09
*** deepy has joined #maemo		12:11
kerio	deepy: ohai	12:12
deepy	heya	12:12
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		12:12
kerio	guys, should deepy buy a N900?	12:12
freemangordon	kerio: why not?	12:12
kerio	perfect	12:13
deepy	valid reasoning	12:13
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		12:13
freemangordon	hehe. jokes aside, n900 is still ok, at least for my needs	12:13
kerio	hah :(	12:13
kerio	i'm in the situation where the n900 is not exactly ok, but everything else is much less ok	12:14
freemangordon	kerio: elabrate please	12:14
kerio	freemangordon: too little ram, too little cpu	12:14
kerio	the usual	12:14
freemangordon	well, you have -thumb on it. CPU is ok	12:14
kerio	it's not the same thing!	12:14
kerio	:c	12:14
freemangordon	it is not slow at all	12:15
freemangordon	cpu that is	12:15
freemangordon	kerio: you'll feel the difference when most of the system is thumb. If not already feeling it	12:15
kerio	(deepy: -thumb is the recompilation of most of the system in a different, smaller instruction set - Thumb2 instead of ARM - that frees a lot of space and ram)	12:16
freemangordon	kerio: what exactly you need more RAM? FireFox? It behaves almost as bad on n950	12:16
freemangordon	*why	12:17
kerio	freemangordon: just for general freshness, i suppose	12:17
tadzik	the UI could be more responsive, although that's probably not ram's fault	12:17
kerio	the n900 is slower and less responsive than my 2x2.8GHz laptop with 4gb of ram, for instance	12:17
freemangordon	kerio: ORLY?	12:17
kerio	freemangordon: YARLY!	12:18
freemangordon	strange, as i is sometimes faster than my 2.8GHz 1GB laptop	12:18
freemangordon	single core P4 that is :P	12:19
*** cityLights has joined #maemo		12:19
freemangordon	kerio: I usually have uptime of 2 weeks or so, it is fast all the time	12:21
freemangordon	-thumb and swap on uSD of course	12:21
kerio	so far my longest uptime has been like three days	12:21
kerio	because i always find an excuse to reboot	12:22
kerio	:D	12:22
freemangordon	:D	12:22
kerio	and i used to have a 4gb swap partition, but then image-viewer yelled at me	12:22
freemangordon	hmm, 1G here, you don;t really need 4GB	12:23
kerio	but i WANTED 4gb	12:23
kerio	i can afford it	12:23
kerio	i make it rain	12:23
Skry	:D	12:23
freemangordon	hehe	12:23
tadzik	is there any advantage for swap on uSD rather than on emmc?	12:23
freemangordon	it makes all the difference	12:23
kerio	tadzik: less congestion on the emmc	12:23
kerio	it doesn't make a lot of difference	12:24
freemangordon	kerio: it makes	12:24
kerio	freemangordon: ;)	12:24
freemangordon	stop trolling and read the appropriate threads on TMO	12:24
*** BCMM has joined #maemo		12:24
freemangordon	tadzik: even if uSD is class 2 it makes n900 lot more faster. you should change other stuff (like swappiness and such)	12:26
freemangordon	but there is swappolube for that purpose	12:26
*** zap_ has joined #maemo		12:26
Skry	does zram give any benefits on n900?	12:27
tadzik	I have class 10	12:27
tadzik	I'll look for the tmo thread	12:27
kerio	tadzik: class doesn't matter for the purpose of swap	12:27
kerio	the class gives you the minimal sequential write speed	12:27
tadzik	ah	12:27
kerio	you need random reads and writes	12:27
tadzik	then it's worthless indeed	12:27
kerio	well, no, it's still good to take pictures and record video :)	12:28
tadzik	:)	12:28
freemangordon	Skry: unfortunately no	12:29
kerio	tadzik: even more important is the sandiskness	12:30
freemangordon	kerio: yeah, exactly	12:30
Skry	freemangordon: yeah, thought so.	12:30
freemangordon	tadzik: the more sandisk it is, the better	12:31
tadzik	heh, then I'm out of luck	12:31
freemangordon	but even sandisk 4 is better than sandisk 10	12:31
kerio	for the purpose of swap	12:32
freemangordon	though I use sandisk 16GB class 10 and it is ok	12:32
freemangordon	kerio: yes	12:32
kerio	for christmas, i want a microsd made of RAM	12:34
freemangordon	I dream of such device for the last 3 years :D. a uSD device with first 1G made of ram and remaining 127G of flash :D	12:39
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo		12:40
kerio	i'd be happy with the first 1G	12:41
freemangordon	unfortunately noone seems to produce such a beast	12:41
* freemangordon goes afk		12:41
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo		12:42
* vi_ considers a 1GB RamSanDisk.		12:43
*** dhbiker has quit IRC		13:00
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo		13:02
*** derpmode has joined #maemo		13:07
derpmode	I just had a weird pop-up on my n900: "You have exceeded the time limit and your reservation has been released. The purpose of this time limit is to ensure that registration is available to as many people as possible. We apologize for the inconvenience"	13:08
derpmode	wtf program is that from?	13:08
derpmode	oh	13:09
derpmode	apparently the browser can make system yellow popups like that	13:09
derpmode	from websites	13:09
*** cyborg-o1e has joined #maemo		13:11
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		13:13
*** shanttu has joined #maemo		13:16
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		13:20
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		13:21
*** murrayc has quit IRC		13:21
*** derpmode has left #maemo		13:24
*** Kilroo has quit IRC		13:25
*** em has quit IRC		13:25
*** em has joined #maemo		13:26
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo		13:27
*** shanttu has left #maemo		13:27
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		13:27
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC		13:27
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #maemo		13:27
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		13:27
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		13:28
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		13:33
*** stardiviner has quit IRC		13:37
*** Kilroo has joined #maemo		13:40
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		13:40
*** calvaris has quit IRC		13:41
*** geaaru has quit IRC		13:45
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		13:45
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		13:45
*** polemo has joined #maemo		13:47
*** Pali has joined #maemo		13:51
*** maybeArgh has joined #maemo		14:05
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC		14:09
*** lizardo has quit IRC		14:09
*** RP_ has quit IRC		14:09
*** norayr has quit IRC		14:11
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		14:12
*** thetet has joined #maemo		14:12
*** lizardo has joined #maemo		14:22
*** RP_ has joined #maemo		14:25
*** norayr has joined #maemo		14:25
*** teotwaki has quit IRC		14:32
*** gomiam has joined #maemo		14:39
*** cyborg-o1e has quit IRC		14:39
*** gomiam has quit IRC		14:40
*** cyborg-one has joined #maemo		14:41
*** etrunko has quit IRC		14:45
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		14:47
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo		14:53
*** chainsawbike has quit IRC		15:08
*** chainsawbike has joined #maemo		15:11
*** jhb has quit IRC		15:14
*** jhb has joined #maemo		15:21
*** guerby has quit IRC		15:22
*** Smily has quit IRC		15:22
*** Hurrian has quit IRC		15:25
*** guerby has joined #maemo		15:37
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		15:37
*** NishanthMenon has joined #maemo		15:39
*** Smily has joined #maemo		15:43
*** etrunko has quit IRC		15:43
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		15:46
*** dhbiker has quit IRC		15:46
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		15:50
*** X-Fade has quit IRC		16:02
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo		16:02
*** setanta has joined #maemo		16:04
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		16:06
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		16:07
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		16:07
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		16:08
*** lardman has joined #maemo		16:10
*** lardman has quit IRC		16:10
*** lardman has joined #maemo		16:10
*** fredrinLap has joined #maemo		16:10
RST38h	moo,lardman	16:11
lardman	hey RST38h	16:11
*** konelix has joined #maemo		16:12
*** Hoolxi has quit IRC		16:15
*** Hoolxi has joined #maemo		16:16
lardman	hmm, after having used a Windows mobile device and an Android device for a while and now coming back to my N950, I'm struck by just how nice the interface is (even if slightly half baked in places), and how poor the signal strength is	16:17
vi_	and how sexually the aluminium case glides through your fingers.	16:21
lardman	it's plastic isn't it?	16:23
*** andre__ has quit IRC		16:23
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		16:24
* lardman curses Fenix		16:25
kerio	<lardman> ooh look at me i'm so cool, i have a N950	16:27
kerio	I HATE YOU >:C	16:27
*** konelix has quit IRC		16:27
lardman	oh	16:27
lardman	sorry about that kerio, why the anger?	16:28
jon_y	BECAUSE WE WANT ONE TOO	16:28
lardman	shouting won't help you, nor will abusing me, even if it makes you feel better	16:30
Luke-Jr	how about asking how much yours costs? ;)	16:30
lardman	lol	16:30
Luke-Jr	I mean, you're obviously not using it <.<	16:30
lardman	well I am now :p	16:31
lardman	though without mail working, it's pretty painful	16:31
jon_y	no email?	16:32
* kerio looks at modest		16:32
kerio	i can deal with that	16:32
lardman	nah, just keeps asking me to setup accounts, then I see the subject lines on the status bar as mail is delivered, just can't read it	16:32
*** dimw1t has joined #maemo		16:32
lardman	I'd even swap and have Modest back :)	16:32
*** dimw1t is now known as a7145		16:33
lardman	How functional is Nemo these days?	16:34
tadzik	not really	16:34
tadzik	it looks nice, but too many things just don't work yet	16:34
tadzik	even stuff like importing contacts from .vcfs, unless you import them one by one	16:34
tadzik	you can call and text with it though, and browse the web	16:35
lardman	I could live with that, or write something to do it for me	16:35
jon_y	let's make something like iTunes so we can sync it with our proprietary desktop systems :)	16:35
tadzik	it's worth taking a look at, imho	16:35
lardman	tadzik: cool thanks	16:36
jon_y	does the Nokia Phone program thing that sits on the desktop actually work like itunes?	16:37
* lardman wonders if/when Jolla will see the light of day		16:37
lardman	jon_y: the sync tool?	16:37
*** Smily has quit IRC		16:37
jon_y	the PC suite thing	16:37
lardman	iirc it syncs contacts with e.g. Outlook, but didn't do much more than that	16:38
jon_y	ok	16:38
jon_y	nemo needs to work with that :)	16:38
lardman	contact sync'ing is terrible, mine are knackered after going through Google + Hotmail and being merged all over the shop	16:38
lardman	not the Nokia sync program, just the whole process in general, and the way things don't automerge	16:39
tadzik	lardman: oh, if you decide to hack on it, and if you're able to compile qmlcontacts, drop me a note ;)	16:39
jon_y	iirc there's an sqlite dump tool or something for the N900	16:39
jon_y	to grab contacts	16:39
lardman	tadzik: what's the problem with compiling it?	16:40
jon_y	maybe that was android	16:40
lardman	jon_y: it will also allow you to sync over BT iirc	16:40
tadzik	lardman: probably a PEBKAC on my side, linking fails for me in the mer SDK	16:40
lardman	which is how I moved my contacts from N900 to N950 originally	16:40
jon_y	ok, BT to transfer contacts	16:40
lardman	tadzik: never did any userspace Mer work, was only ever kernel stuff trying to get powervr accel on the Galaxy tab, but will try to get back into it now my daughter is old enough that we can all get some sleep	16:41
tadzik	heh :)	16:41
*** hardaker has joined #maemo		16:41
lardman	amazing how I used to love coding into the early hours, now I would like to be asleep by 9 ;)	16:41
tadzik	heh. I stopped staying up late when I started waking up to work at ~7	16:42
lardman	understandable	16:43
lardman	For those with N9(50), is Nokia drive terrible?	16:43
lardman	I used it yesterday and on a few occasions along my route it would suddenly create roads that looked somewhat like a major trainstation terminus (with suitable instructions to turn left/right every 10s), very odd	16:44
jon_y	you all need an annoying alarm clock to tell you to go to bed	16:44
lardman	jon_y: I just fall asleep on the sofa, usually before my daughter does	16:44
jon_y	GPS? I've seen cheapo GPS asking the driver to hop off an overhead bridge into the highway beneath :)	16:45
jon_y	yeah, shortest way indeed	16:45
lardman	this was just random roads suddenly appearing, driving along the side of a field, so not even in a town/city	16:46
lardman	right, meeting to go to, catch you all soon	16:46
*** lardman has quit IRC		16:47
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		16:53
vi_	You can buy my n950 for 1000 euros.	16:59
*** xmlich02 has joined #maemo		17:04
Sicelo	lol	17:04
*** rm_work has joined #maemo		17:05
*** rm_work has joined #maemo		17:05
*** Zahra has joined #maemo		17:11
*** calvaris has quit IRC		17:13
*** solofight has joined #maemo		17:14
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		17:14
solofight	people - i have nokia n900 and trying to connect my bluetooth headset - when i switch on bluetooth onboth and search for new device in my n900 it aint showing the headset	17:15
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		17:15
solofight	but the same headset works with my samsung galaxy	17:15
solofight	the headset is a samsung make - HM1200 which came with the galaxy mobile	17:16
*** teotwaki has joined #maemo		17:19
*** thetet has quit IRC		17:19
solofight	people - am i in the wrong room ?	17:21
solofight	if yes please point me to the right direction	17:22
merlin1991	solofight: you're in the right channel :)	17:22
merlin1991	though irc is a slow medium, people sometimes answer days later	17:22
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo		17:23
merlin1991	anyway, do you still have the stock obexd? or did you play with the bluetooth stack?	17:23
solofight	stock obexd ?	17:24
solofight	merlin1991: ^	17:24
merlin1991	nokia provided :D	17:24
*** kraft has quit IRC		17:25
kerio	solofight: are you sure you're following the pairing instructions for your headset?	17:25
*** beford has joined #maemo		17:25
solofight	merlin1991: no - i bought n900 from n guy and the hm1200 headset from another	17:26
solofight	kerio: switch on and search and connect ! isnt that it ! ?	17:26
solofight	theres anything else involved generally ?	17:27
solofight	tis is the one	17:27
solofight	http://www.wirelessground.com/samsung-hm1200-bluetooth-headset.html	17:27
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		17:28
*** plwweasel has joined #maemo		17:28
solofight	when i click on new device - the circle spins on and on and on and on	17:29
*** xmlich02 has quit IRC		17:29
solofight	though i have the headset next to it	17:29
kerio	solofight: there's usually a "hold a certain key while turning on" or something like that	17:30
kerio	to avoid people randomly connecting to your headsets	17:30
*** plwweasel has quit IRC		17:30
*** plwweasel has joined #maemo		17:31
*** plwweasel has quit IRC		17:32
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		17:32
*** norayr has quit IRC		17:36
*** kraft has joined #maemo		17:37
solofight	kerio: :) muaahh	17:38
solofight	kerio: love you - thanks	17:38
solofight	worked like a charm	17:38
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC		17:41
Sicelo	:P	17:41
Sicelo	connected to the Samsung without using the button though?	17:41
*** dir has joined #maemo		17:43
*** valeriusL has quit IRC		17:44
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		17:45
kerio	Sicelo: auto pairing on first power on? idk	17:45
kerio	freemangordon: neither HAM nor apt will willingly downgrade packages, and moving from -thumb to +thumb is a downgrade, in dpkg's eyes	17:46
Pali	there is really iptables disabled by default on n900?	17:47
kerio	and dropping the -testing to only add -thumb still wouldn't solve the problem	17:47
kerio	Pali: i thought it wasn't even installed	17:47
Pali	also none config file for persistent configuration?	17:47
Pali	kerio, so this should be fixed on my n900 :-)	17:48
*** valerius has quit IRC		17:48
Pali	what is good solution for persistent iptables rules? (on maemo)	17:48
Pali	debian has package iptables-persistent	17:48
*** xmlich02 has joined #maemo		17:50
*** geaaru has quit IRC		17:51
Pali	ok, ubuntu package iptables-persistent is simple, it has init.d script which call iptables-restore < /etc/iptables/rules.v4 (and also ip6tables) when file exists	17:54
Pali	script is called on startup	17:54
solofight	Sicelo: yeah thats what i was said	17:54
Pali	going to repackage it and push to extras-devel	17:55
kerio	Pali: neat	17:57
*** arno0ob has quit IRC		17:57
kerio	Pali: what are you using iptables for?	17:57
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo		17:57
Pali	against brute force ssh attact	17:57
*** brzys has joined #maemo		17:58
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		17:59
solofight	how do i connect my n900 to my computer and send sms from PC ?	18:01
Sicelo	Pali: we're lucky to have NAT, or unlucky :-/	18:02
Sicelo	:P	18:02
*** toxaris has joined #maemo		18:03
solofight	how do you people send sms from PC by connecting you n900 to PC ?	18:05
*** geaaru has quit IRC		18:07
*** valerius has joined #maemo		18:07
*** konelix has joined #maemo		18:09
*** penguinbait has joined #maemo		18:09
*** penguinbait has joined #maemo		18:09
*** cityLights has quit IRC		18:10
*** NishanthMenon__ has joined #maemo		18:10
*** BCMM has quit IRC		18:11
*** toxaris has quit IRC		18:13
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC		18:13
*** cyborg-o1e has joined #maemo		18:14
*** toxaris has joined #maemo		18:14
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC		18:18
DocScrutinizer05	solofight: see wiki page phonecontrol	18:18
solofight	DocScrutinizer05: thank you n it	18:19
solofight	on it*	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	solofight: or you go for vnc in any of it's flavours that works with slightly modified Hildon	18:19
DocScrutinizer05	(I never did vnc this way round, so can't help much)	18:20
*** xmlich02 has quit IRC		18:24
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		18:25
*** zap_ has quit IRC		18:29
solofight	DocScrutinizer05: which is the best free call blocking application for n900 ?	18:35
solofight	i tried call blocker - it neva worked	18:35
*** valerius has quit IRC		18:39
solofight	guys whats the best free call blocker application to use for n900 ?	18:42
*** ale152 has joined #maemo		18:50
*** e-yes has quit IRC		18:50
DocScrutinizer05	I once tried contact ringtones by barisione, dunno if it also does blocking, though I'd think it has everything in place already	18:51
DocScrutinizer05	maybe if it doesn't yet block particular contacts' inbound calls, it could easily be augmented to do that	18:52
DocScrutinizer05	probably a proper GUI integration would be the most trouble in augmenting it	18:53
*** xmlich02 has joined #maemo		18:54
DocScrutinizer05	(unless you do some botch and define a specific virtual ringtone filename to mean "please reject that call")	18:54
*** xmlich02 has quit IRC		18:56
*** Woody14619 has quit IRC		18:59
*** valerius has joined #maemo		18:59
*** Woody14619 has joined #maemo		18:59
*** eMHa has quit IRC		19:02
*** kraft has quit IRC		19:03
*** kraft has joined #maemo		19:03
*** r00t\|home has quit IRC		19:09
*** kraft has quit IRC		19:09
*** r00t\|home has joined #maemo		19:10
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		19:15
*** Zahra has quit IRC		19:16
tadzik	hey, any idea how to make the pictures/audio tracker not index what's on the uSD?	19:18
*** RST38h has quit IRC		19:18
peetah	tadzik: tracker-cfg	19:19
solofight	DocScrutinizer05: oh	19:19
*** kraft has joined #maemo		19:21
*** Jucato has quit IRC		19:22
tadzik	peetah: trying it out, thanks	19:22
peetah	check the NoWatchDirectory list	19:22
*** Jucato has joined #maemo		19:22
*** florian has quit IRC		19:24
tadzik	peetah: could IndexMountedDirectories and/or IndexRemovableMedia just do the job?	19:26
kerio	tadzik: i disabled both	19:27
tadzik	okayo	19:27
peetah	tadzik: i guess so	19:27
tadzik	now, swap on uSD..	19:27
peetah	would'nt disabling IndexMountedDirectory remove indexation of MyDocs ?	19:30
*** kraft has quit IRC		19:30
tadzik	let's see	19:30
tadzik	I wonder how it defines "removable media"	19:31
*** ale152 has quit IRC		19:31
kerio	peetah: sure, but do you really want to index it?	19:32
kerio	it'll always index the nokia directories	19:32
kerio	(but not DCIM, so add that)	19:32
peetah	what about Music and Videos ?	19:33
tadzik	well, I want it to index my music, I don't want it to index nemo mobile data ;)	19:33
kerio	you mean .sounds and .videos	19:33
peetah	yep	19:33
kerio	those are indexed	19:33
*** kraft has joined #maemo		19:33
kerio	they're in the WatchDirectory list or something like that	19:33
*** solofight has quit IRC		19:34
tadzik	oh hm. Seems that nemo moved to some FS that maemo doesn't recognize	19:34
peetah	is there a place somewhere explaining what are the priorities given to all these options ?	19:35
*** Zahra has joined #maemo		19:35
tadzik	I'm afraid to hear "in the source code" ;)	19:35
tadzik	aha, nemo's using ext4 now	19:37
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		19:37
*** ced117 has quit IRC		19:37
*** ced117 has joined #maemo		19:37
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: afaik those options (as well as some aspects of NoWatchDir) are broken in stock trackerd. CSSU has a fix for trackerd (thanks javispedro)	19:41
tadzik	any opinions on swapset (the app)?	19:42
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		19:42
tadzik	DocScrutinizer05: yeah, I'm on CSSU, testing I think	19:42
DocScrutinizer05	good	19:42
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: KP should support ext4	19:43
tadzik	heh, so I'd have to mangle with those tracker settings after I install it back	19:43
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: NOT for rootfs though (it's a loadable module for ext4 afaik)	19:44
*** M4rtinK has joined #maemo		19:44
tadzik	anyway, what are you guys using for swap on uSD business? Manual config mangling?	19:44
DocScrutinizer05	never tried that	19:44
DocScrutinizer05	I hate system crash on removing back cover	19:44
ShadowJK	I just have a startup.sh that I run manually on each boot (once every 2 months?)	19:45
*** brzys has quit IRC		19:45
tadzik	heh, understandable	19:45
kerio	tadzik: /sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk1p2 \|\| /sbin/swapon /dev/mmcblk0p3	19:46
kerio	in /etc/event.d/rcS-late	19:46
kerio	instead of /sbin/swapon -a \|\| echo "Swap failure" or whatever	19:46
tadzik	kerio: how does it work out with the "removing back cover"issue?	19:46
tadzik	iirc n900 doesn't see the uSD if backcover's off	19:47
kerio	tadzik: i have an otterbox	19:47
kerio	=D	19:47
tadzik	otterbox?	19:47
ShadowJK	it crashes if swap is enabled on usd and backcover is removed	19:47
kerio	tadzik: http://www.geardiary.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/geardiary-otterbox-nokia-n900-commuter-series-case-10-700x676.jpg	19:47
kerio	the case around the n900 in this pic	19:47
tadzik	crashes as in "doing a kernel picnic"?	19:48
kerio	tadzik: maybe!	19:48
tadzik	let's check	19:49
kerio	i have a sheevaplug with swap on a usb drive, and disconnecting the drive causes awful stuff	19:49
kerio	tadzik: make sure you have lots of stuff in swap	19:49
tadzik	ah, so it won't crash otherwise? Then it's not much of an issue	19:49
kerio	it will	19:49
kerio	you basically deleted a bunch of stuff in ram	19:49
tadzik	right	19:50
tadzik	so one should just swapoff before removing it	19:50
kerio	yeah	19:50
tadzik	sounds easy to forget :	19:50
tadzik	:)	19:51
*** thuttu77 has quit IRC		19:51
kerio	how often do you people open the backcover anyway?	19:51
ShadowJK	seldom :)	19:51
DocScrutinizer05	tadzik: it will PANIC	19:51
ShadowJK	I always assumed it was random processes crashing with Bus Fault, and watchdogs resetting device	19:52
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: are you sure it's a proper panic and not just a bunch of atrocious errors when the kernel tries to recover the swapped pages?	19:52
*** rcg-work has quit IRC		19:52
DocScrutinizer05	I guess [kswapd ] will trow error	19:52
DocScrutinizer05	->PANIC	19:53
kerio	tadzik: have you checked?	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	maybe even too heavy for proper PANIC ;-P	19:53
*** thuttu77 has joined #maemo		19:54
*** arno0ob has quit IRC		19:54
DocScrutinizer05	simple test, kerio: open ssh over WLAN, do tail -f /var/log/syslog, then remove back cover	19:54
tadzik	kerio: not yet	19:54
ShadowJK	Actually once upon a time a server I managed had the harddrive ripped out by a dc technician for unexplainable reasons. alot of crap stopped working, but the main server process kept living because it was already memory resident, and didn't do much I/O	19:55
tadzik	uh wtf, swap on nemo seems to be 8 MBs?	19:55
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: probably kswapd will barf up next time it tries to access swap	19:55
DocScrutinizer05	whenever that happens	19:55
ShadowJK	iirc anything needing a swapin just gets killed	19:56
ShadowJK	so phys ram gets freed up at an astonishingly fast rate :-)	19:56
DocScrutinizer05	:shrug:	19:56
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i have an otterbox, i need a team of engineers to remove the backcovercover first	19:56
* DocScrutinizer05 hands kerio a magnet		19:57
ShadowJK	does keyboard slide out with otterbox?	19:58
kerio	ShadowJK: yup	19:58
kerio	it's divided in two parts	19:58
kerio	otherwise it would be kinda useless	19:58
tadzik	I have a similar thing, came with my N900 in the Nokia box	19:58
tadzik	it's pretty shitty though, too loose	19:58
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: maybe "55:23:99 kernel: [kswapd] OOOPS! IO error on <dev> swap! ... bla dump dump bla ...	19:59
kerio	ShadowJK: it even has a tiny crevice on the part that ends up over the keyboard, so your fingers can fit better on the top row of the keys	20:00
DocScrutinizer05	NB system "stays up" after OOPS	20:00
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		20:00
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: is there a way to make it panic after OOPS?	20:00
DocScrutinizer05	yes, afaik there's a kernel parameter you can set, like panic-on-oops or sth	20:01
kerio	echo "30000 30001 30002 30003" > /proc/sys/vm/lowmem_allowed_uids wait, what	20:01
kerio	# 30000 is messagebus, 30001 could be used by Matchbox	20:02
kerio	my highest PID is 1757	20:02
DocScrutinizer05	could be?	20:02
kerio	:s	20:02
DocScrutinizer05	check friggin files in /etc!	20:02
kerio	this is rcS-late	20:02
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: it's UID, not PID	20:02
kerio	oic	20:03
kerio	30001 is haldaemon here	20:03
kerio	and 30003 is sshd	20:03
kerio	wow, that's actually pretty neat, sshd will work even in stupid memory conditions	20:03
DocScrutinizer05	it won't get killed by OOM	20:04
kerio	no, that's "never denied allocation in lowmem"	20:04
DocScrutinizer05	doesn't mean it will work flawlessly	20:04
kerio	(apart by lack of memory, i mean)	20:04
DocScrutinizer05	what do you think does "deny allocation" mean?	20:05
kerio	below a certain threshold of free ram, malloc() returns NULL?	20:06
DocScrutinizer05	I'd guess it rather triggers OOM, since many apps don't behave on malloc() fail	20:06
DocScrutinizer05	maybe not	20:07
DocScrutinizer05	whatever, doesn't matter	20:07
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: no real need to OOM kill those, they'll just blow up with a sigsegv :)	20:07
DocScrutinizer05	also OOM kicks in way earler than malloc() fail, since OOM tries to keep important stuff alive, while malloc() fails for everybody once there's not enough memory left	20:08
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		20:09
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo		20:09
DocScrutinizer05	no, many progs are poorly written and will spin in an endless loop trying to allocate enough mem	20:09
kerio	...wat	20:09
*** toxaris has quit IRC		20:10
*** githogori has quit IRC		20:10
DocScrutinizer05	typical case: install global error handler to catch all errors. In that error handler a) forget to disable error-handler, and b) instantiate an object	20:13
*** Free-MG has joined #maemo		20:13
tadzik	kerio: just checked. It does a Surprise REboot	20:13
DocScrutinizer05	(or b) do any other malloc() )	20:13
kerio	tadzik: immediately?	20:13
tadzik	kerio: when I launched Opera. It may have not noticed before	20:13
tadzik	there were like 2 MBs taken of 1024	20:13
kerio	tadzik: well, now you know what happens if you remove a stick of ram from a live computer	20:14
kerio	:)	20:14
tadzik	yeah :)	20:14
kerio	tadzik: what's bootreason now?	20:14
kerio	cat /proc/bootreason	20:15
DocScrutinizer05	hmmpf	20:15
DocScrutinizer05	what might it be? really I can't guess ;-P	20:15
tadzik	kerio: rw_rst	20:15
tadzik	erm, sw	20:15
DocScrutinizer05	OOOH surprise!	20:15
tadzik	sounds like "software reset"	20:15
tadzik	or Supwise Reset	20:16
DocScrutinizer05	now what do we know?	20:16
tadzik	computers don't like having ram taken away	20:16
DocScrutinizer05	it's neither been hw_watchdog nor powerbutton that caused boot	20:17
kerio	hw_watchdog is dsme?	20:17
DocScrutinizer05	no	20:17
DocScrutinizer05	dsme is sw_rst	20:17
kerio	yeah but "reboot" is also sw_rst	20:17
DocScrutinizer05	exactly ;-P	20:17
kerio	what about kernel panic?	20:17
DocScrutinizer05	sw_rst	20:17
kerio	ok, so we know nothing	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	;-P	20:18
DocScrutinizer05	try sp-oops-extract /dev/mtd2	20:19
DocScrutinizer05	anybody know if Volkswagen used meego for their back-seat-entertainment systems?	20:21
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i don't have sp-oops-extract	20:22
kerio	which package is it in?	20:22
DocScrutinizer05	hmmpf	20:22
DocScrutinizer05	apt-cache search sp-oops-extract	20:22
kerio	oh, it's apparently sp-oops-extract	20:22
kerio	how convenient	20:22
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: i can't authenticate packages from the tools repo, is it a known problem?	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	dunno	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	If I been able to conveniently ignore the warning, then maybe it's "known"	20:24
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		20:24
tadzik	is there any particular reason why http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 stuff is not in repos?	20:25
*** Darkchaos has joined #maemo		20:25
*** Zahra has quit IRC		20:25
kerio	tadzik: ask Pali	20:26
tadzik	Pali: question: is there any particular reason why http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 packages are not in the repos?	20:26
Pali	yes 2 problems	20:26
Pali	1) more apps depends on kernel-feature-something and these "provides" are only provided by kernel-*-flasher packages	20:27
*** konelix has quit IRC		20:27
Pali	u-boot replacing existing kernel	20:27
Pali	2) needs proper packaging	20:28
Pali	problem 2) should be fixed (it conflicts all old u-boot packages)	20:28
Pali	and problem 1): I have not tested patch which ask user if really want to flash kernel...	20:28
Pali	when I finish 1) I will push u-boot to extras-devel	20:29
Pali	tadzik, but now I do not have time for u-boot...	20:29
tadzik	okay, understood	20:29
DocScrutinizer05	Pali: let me know if that patch actually works both in apt-get and HAM, I'd love to fix this problem on tsome other pkgs	20:30
Pali	Doc, it patching fiasco-image-update	20:30
Pali	it is shell script	20:30
Pali	but I did not tested it yet...	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	>>patch which ask user if really want to flash kernel...	20:30
Pali	yes, because -flasher packages using that fiasco- script for flashing...	20:31
DocScrutinizer05	either it rises a hildon-Requester which goes unnoticed on remote ssh, or it tries to read from stdin which doesn't work in HAM obviously	20:32
Pali	files: http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/fiasco-image-update.patch http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/zimage-get-version.c	20:32
DocScrutinizer05	one of the main reasons why some packages are supposed to get installed by HAM only, while some others will fail terribly when not installed via apt-get (none of latter class known yet)	20:33
*** calvaris has left #maemo		20:34
DocScrutinizer05	NB the problem could get fixed easily, if we could find out whether we are in interactive shell or not	20:36
kerio	the problem could get fixed easily if HAM supported debconf	20:37
DocScrutinizer05	or climb up the parent tree and check for any of "HAM" \| "apt-get"	20:37
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: while I got no friggin clue what's debconf, I doubt HAM is supposed to support it. If it actually should and that would help for this (and other) problem(s), you're free to open a ticket or even provide a patch	20:39
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: it's the debian way of asking stuff to the user while installing	20:41
kerio	you can use different frontends	20:41
DocScrutinizer05	no, debconf IS a frontend	20:42
kerio	"debconf is a backend database, with a frontend that talks to it and presents an interface to the user"	20:43
DocScrutinizer05	debconf runs any special program that talks debconf-protocol via stdin/stdout	20:43
kerio	those are the frontends!	20:44
DocScrutinizer05	man 1 debconf	20:44
DocScrutinizer05	bs, those are called backend	20:44
DocScrutinizer05	frontend is the "GUI"	20:44
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		20:44
kerio	anyway, nobody uses the debconf binary, it's mostly ran by dpkg/apt/whatever	20:45
kerio	it's neat because the same package can get a text-mode configuration interface while installing from apt-get, and a GUI when installing from, say, synaptic	20:46
DocScrutinizer05	and how TF is debconf supposed to know the difference? when called by apt-get or synaptic?	20:48
DocScrutinizer05	unless told about the fact by either of both explicitly	20:49
DocScrutinizer05	we wouldn't need any debconf to tell our pre-install script via $env to either use a requester or stdin/readline to query user's choice	20:50
DocScrutinizer05	we just could try to find an $env that is unique to interactive shell	20:51
DocScrutinizer05	or check if stdin and stdout are like they should on interactive shell	20:52
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: apt-get already tells debconf :)	20:53
DocScrutinizer05	or, alternatively, find any $env that's unique to HAM's child processes	20:53
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: don't create noise, suggest a patch!	20:54
DocScrutinizer05	evidently on fremantle apt-get doesn't tell debconf since we don't have debconf	20:55
DocScrutinizer05	and I still fail to see how debconf would open a proper hildon requester when run under HAM	20:56
*** florian has joined #maemo		20:56
*** florian has joined #maemo		20:56
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: well, HAM would tell debconf to use a graphical frontend	20:57
*** Canseco has joined #maemo		20:58
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		20:59
DocScrutinizer05	and how's that compatible with our current pre-install scripts and why we need that at all, instead of implementing it into HAM instead of an interface to debconf?	20:59
kerio	it's compatible with our current pre-install scripts because those will just keep working as they do now	20:59
kerio	and we should do that because debconf is The One True Way to do stuff like this	20:59
*** piggz has joined #maemo		21:00
DocScrutinizer05	go ahead, damn! provide a patch!	21:00
DocScrutinizer05	don't forget to evaluate size increase of binary vs benefit it brings	21:00
piggz	lo *	21:00
*** Canseco has quit IRC		21:04
DocScrutinizer05	kerio: btw all our pre-install scripts that request user interaction do that via hildon requester already. I don't see how implementing some debconf monster into HAM will "fix" that or just guarantee compatibility. It's apt-get from terminal/shell that needs a fix for the requester showing up on device screen and not via stdout/stdin. Can debconf do this? how? (no, it can't since it got no clue about how our pre-inst scripts call that	21:06
DocScrutinizer05	requester)	21:06
*** kraft has quit IRC		21:06
kerio	hm, how is the requester called?	21:06
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, why do you ask that just now, instead of before you start spamming?	21:07
kerio	oh, just maemo-confirm-text?	21:10
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		21:12
*** kraft has joined #maemo		21:12
*** piggz has quit IRC		21:15
*** rcg has joined #maemo		21:26
*** RST38h has joined #maemo		21:31
kerio	freemangordon: poke	21:31
*** Zucca has quit IRC		21:34
*** Vanadis has quit IRC		21:35
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo		21:35
*** hardaker has quit IRC		21:41
*** eMHa has joined #maemo		21:42
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		21:50
*** lxp1 has joined #maemo		21:50
DocScrutinizer05	[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only then go update the rest	21:51
*** lxp has quit IRC		21:52
RST38h	what is -T?	21:53
kerio	-testing	21:53
RST38h	and why is it making us jump through loops?=)	21:53
*** wmarone_ has joined #maemo		21:56
*** konelix has joined #maemo		21:56
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		21:57
*** dir has quit IRC		21:57
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		21:57
*** jhb has quit IRC		21:57
*** Psi has quit IRC		21:57
*** wmarone has quit IRC		21:57
*** yosafbridge has quit IRC		21:57
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC		21:57
*** infobot has quit IRC		21:57
*** Sicelo has quit IRC		21:57
*** jjo_ has quit IRC		21:57
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo		21:58
*** dir has joined #maemo		21:58
*** Dragnslcr has joined #maemo		21:58
*** jhb has joined #maemo		21:58
*** Psi has joined #maemo		21:58
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo		21:58
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo		21:58
*** jjo_ has joined #maemo		21:58
kerio	RST38h: because HAM is silly and there's been a mistake in the packaging of a package	21:59
*** Dragnslicer has joined #maemo		21:59
*** Dragnslcr has quit IRC		21:59
*** yosafbridge has joined #maemo		22:00
*** infobot has joined #maemo		22:01
infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	22:01
kerio	yaaaaaay	22:01
kerio	~botsnack	22:01
infobot	:), kerio	22:01
kerio	(:, infobot	22:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot		22:01
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		22:02
*** ced117 has quit IRC		22:03
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		22:05
*** konelix_ has joined #maemo		22:06
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		22:06
*** konelix has quit IRC		22:07
*** ajf_ has joined #maemo		22:11
*** ArGGu^^ has quit IRC		22:11
ajf_	how do carriers detect tethering which isn't allowed in your plan, and how easy is it for them to do this on my N900?	22:11
*** ArGGu^^ has joined #maemo		22:12
*** konelix__ has joined #maemo		22:12
kerio	ajf_: it's kind of impossible to do on the N900, unless they do DPI	22:13
kerio	and even then...	22:13
ajf_	or check the User-Agent header perhaps, since HTTP does go through some transparent proxy	22:14
ajf_	but I read iDevices phones either report it to the carrier, or they use an alternative APN	22:14
*** konelix_ has quit IRC		22:14
ajf_	so the N900 won't do anything like that?	22:14
*** konelix has joined #maemo		22:15
*** eijk_ has joined #maemo		22:16
*** konelix__ has quit IRC		22:17
*** eijk has quit IRC		22:19
*** konelix has quit IRC		22:19
*** konelix has joined #maemo		22:20
kerio	ajf_: probably not	22:20
*** real-dev has joined #maemo		22:29
*** piggz has joined #maemo		22:31
*** dev has quit IRC		22:31
*** konelix has quit IRC		22:31
*** real-dev is now known as dev		22:31
ShadowJK	Although when you tether through bluetooth dun or through usb cable, the pc itself establishes a new connection through N900. The computwer decides the apn, and if N900 is already connected to mobile internet, a second connection would be noticed, of course :)	22:34
*** Guest45765 has joined #maemo		22:35
ShadowJK	Through wifi mobile hotspot thingy, N900 shares its own connection	22:35
*** Guest45765 has quit IRC		22:37
kerio	if you only do proper forwarding and no "tether" bullshit (which is something that i only began to hear once the iphone was out, because apparently mobile phones in the US are stupidly locked down) then there's really nothing the carrier can say in response to "well, i have a n900"	22:37
*** OkropNick has quit IRC		22:39
ShadowJK	Sometimes you can see shit fly across the network that could only originat from a windows pc :)	22:40
DocScrutinizer05	[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only then go update the rest	22:41
ajf_	oh, I forgot it shows up as a USB modem so you choose the APN in NetworkManager	22:43
*** dev has quit IRC		22:43
*** dev has joined #maemo		22:44
kerio	ShadowJK: qemu	22:45
ShadowJK	DocScrutinizer05; is there no way to make ham do that itself	22:47
DocScrutinizer05	ask merlin1991, it seems the way it's packaged now there's none except postponing cssu-t update rollout (something we should've considered)	22:48
DocScrutinizer05	but as usual merlin1991 was trigger-happy	22:48
ShadowJK	How about adding it in the description then, iirc you can have a "news" thinygy that shows what's new	22:49
merlin1991	ShadowJK: yeah that would have been a good idea	22:49
ShadowJK	in ham	22:49
DocScrutinizer05	yep, nice idea, but I am afraid you have to convince merlin1991 about that	22:49
ShadowJK	And then in next updates also make it fix stuff for people that did update all	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	we even could've implemented a simple abort condition in cssu-t pre-install	22:50
DocScrutinizer05	if only merlin1991 would've allowed testing of release prior to public rollout	22:51
* DocScrutinizer05 now prepares for a nightshift		22:52
ShadowJK	I'd think that priority would be: temporarily disable/remove this, fix it so that it doesn't mess up, put it back, add scripts or whatever is needed to repair situation for people who already upgraded, push out thst?	22:54
DocScrutinizer05	luckily recovery is rather simple: quit ham, wait 5 min, start ham, wait, do update opername, quit ham, wait 5 min, start ham, wait, do cssu-t update	22:54
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: but basically I of course agree with you	22:55
*** chenca has joined #maemo		22:56
DocScrutinizer05	seems general notion is cssu-t users have to cope with minor nuissance like that	22:56
ShadowJK	Oh so it eventually fixes itself with a user pressing update whenever the ! update icon starts flashing?	22:57
DocScrutinizer05	probably	22:57
ShadowJK	and what is it recovering from? Does operator name just vanish while things are "broken"?	22:57
DocScrutinizer05	there's some conflict that doesn't allow cssu-t to install	22:57
DocScrutinizer05	aiui	22:58
ShadowJK	Well yes, as "testing" implies.. But likewise automatic fixes and automatic recoveries of mistakes could be part of it ;)	22:58
DocScrutinizer05	yep, sure. Just merlin1991 is already busy with other 'more imprtant' stuff (uBoot)	22:59
*** penguinbait has quit IRC		22:59
*** konelix has joined #maemo		22:59
*** dhbiker has quit IRC		23:00
*** Free-MG has quit IRC		23:00
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC		23:00
DocScrutinizer05	while I'm trying to clean up the mess... :-S	23:00
merlin1991	ShadowJK: the operator-name package name changes, but in order to update cleanly you need a package of operator name with a version higher than 3.0	23:00
merlin1991	which the dummy update provides	23:01
merlin1991	ShadowJK: the "automated" way would have been to depend on the dummy package aswell, but then the mp would break if someone "as they ususally should" attempts to remove the dummy	23:01
*** janemba has quit IRC		23:01
merlin1991	I had the choice between a 2 step upgrade or a useless pkg on the device	23:01
DocScrutinizer05	or an assert in pre-install "INSTALL OPERNAME FIRST, DUMBASS! RTFM!"	23:02
ShadowJK	Couldn't a future upgrade have removed the useless pkg?	23:03
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo		23:03
DocScrutinizer05	prolly	23:03
DocScrutinizer05	[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only then go update the rest. Read http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1264963#post1264963 ff	23:04
ShadowJK	Dunno, "rtfm" sounds kinda silly when the manual isn't bundled with the update	23:04
ShadowJK	user gets flashing icon	23:04
kerio	DocScrutinizer05: is it an automated message?	23:04
DocScrutinizer05	sure, self augmenting msg	23:05
DocScrutinizer05	no, i'm just bored	23:05
DocScrutinizer05	ShadowJK: was a cooking receipe only	23:06
DocScrutinizer05	I'd never use words like DUMBASS either on such a notice ;-P	23:07
DocScrutinizer05	actually if I wasn't concerned about cssu QA and thus read #maemo-ssu, I'd be one of those dumbass users myself	23:08
*** andre__ has quit IRC		23:09
DocScrutinizer05	[2012-09-11 14:54:37] <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: unfortunate you didn't allow prior testing of testing	23:10
DocScrutinizer05	[2012-09-11 14:55:02] <DocScrutinizer05> merlin1991: I gather copying of repo wasn't that simple	23:10
ShadowJK	what's with dummy pkg anyhow	23:11
kerio	ShadowJK: a wrong initial packaging of connui-home-cellular	23:11
DocScrutinizer05	don't ask me	23:11
*** e-yes has joined #maemo		23:12
*** chenca has quit IRC		23:13
*** chenca has joined #maemo		23:14
*** piggz has quit IRC		23:15
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo		23:16
*** toxaris has joined #maemo		23:19
*** Pali has quit IRC		23:21
merlin1991	NIN101: ping	23:21
NIN101	merlin1991: pong	23:22
merlin1991	NIN101: I'm attemting to use your rescue OS for something, but I'm failing at the step where I ssh / telnet in from my pc, I ran the usbnetworkign enabler script, but when I use telnet to 192.168.2.15 nothing happens	23:23
ShadowJK	so it can't be fixed in steps?	23:23
NIN101	merlin1991: run telnetd	23:23
NIN101	just by typing "telnetd"	23:23
merlin1991	what's the login?	23:24
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		23:25
NIN101	root:rootme	23:25
merlin1991	NIN101: any way to transfer a file back over the networking?	23:27
kerio	merlin1991: is there uuencode/uudecode?	23:28
NIN101	"tcpsvd -v 0.0.0.0 21 ftpd -w" enables anonymous down- and uploads everywhere.	23:28
NIN101	or use netcat or so...	23:28
*** piggz has joined #maemo		23:30
*** toxaris has quit IRC		23:33
*** piggz has quit IRC		23:38
*** disco_stu has joined #maemo		23:40
*** lbt has joined #maemo		23:42
*** lbt has quit IRC		23:42
*** lbt has joined #maemo		23:42
*** Dibblah has quit IRC		23:46
*** spoofy has quit IRC		23:49
*** NIN101 has quit IRC		23:52
*** Smily has joined #maemo		23:54
*** piggz has joined #maemo		23:56
*** lizardo has quit IRC		23:57

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!