IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2012-09-12

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GGonwhat was the common way to mount a directory into another one as though it were mounted locally?03:12
GGoncan't remember03:12
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diegojsRWHi. I won a N810 this weekend, and a another tablet (BlackBerry PlayBook). I tried to share files by Bluetooth to the BlackBerry, without success (because PlayBook doesn't support FTP protocol over Bluetooth). I tried then, to share files over network (SAMBA, NetBIOS). I found "samba" at Maemo repositories, and tried to install, I got it. As I didn't found a applet to control what folders I want to share, I tried to install "smbfs", but it requires "samb03:15
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DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff03:42
DocScrutinizer05diegojsRW: your post got trunkated03:44
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.03:44
diegojsRWHi. I won a N810 this weekend, and a another tablet (BlackBerry PlayBook). I tried to share files by Bluetooth to the BlackBerry, without success (because PlayBook doesn't support FTP protocol over Bluetooth). I tried then, to share files over network (SAMBA, NetBIOS).03:44
diegojsRWI found "samba" at Maemo repositories, and tried to install, I got it. As I didn't found a applet to control what folders I want to share, I tried to install "smbfs", but it requires "samba-common 3.0.22-3maemo2". However, I didn't found it at repositories. I googled for "samba-common", but I don't find it to download. Where I find "samba-common" to download? If it was discontinued, how can I share files over SAMBA protocol?03:44
DocScrutinizer05hmm, I'm not sure it will search diablo repository03:47
diegojsRWDocScrutinizer05: I found samba-common 3.0.23c-1osso11, and samba-common 3.4.3-maemo2, but smbfs requires "samba-common 3.0.22-3maemo2". It will recognize and will run with another version?03:48
DocScrutinizer05I see it actually searches diablo as well, see
DocScrutinizer05for example03:48
DocScrutinizer05I don't think it will work with a version such different. It even sounds like it's for another platform03:50
DocScrutinizer05seems maemo2 are for fremantle, while osso11 are for diablo03:53
DocScrutinizer05here maemo2 is diablo :-o03:54
diegojsRWSamba I already installed by the repository03:54
diegojsRWAnd It is working, apparently (I found "admin" and "IPC" folders)03:55
diegojsRWBut I want to choose what folders I want to share03:55
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no clue03:55
diegojsRWI have this version: samba 3.0.22-6 (Diablo Extras-devel free armel)03:56
merlin1991diegojsRW: you should have a config for samba in /etc/samba/smb.conf04:08
merlin1991where you can set what samba shares04:08
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: thanks. I was too busy to look this up04:10
diegojsRWmerlin1991: I don't need of samba-commons installed?04:12
merlin1991diegojsRW: if you installed samba from the repository you should also have samba-common on your device04:13
merlin1991just edit the file in /etc/samba/smb.conf it's pretty straight forward04:14
diegojsRWNo, i haven't04:14
diegojsRWI only have the "samba"04:14
merlin1991what does dpkg -l samba-common tell you?04:14
diegojsRWPackage installation, I suppose04:16
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diegojsRWNokia-N810-43-7:~# dpkg -l samba-common04:18
diegojsRW| Status=Not/Installed/Config-files/Unpacked/Failed-config/Half-installed04:18
diegojsRW|/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad)04:18
diegojsRW||/ Name           Version        Description04:18
diegojsRWii  samba-common   3.0.23c-1osso1 Samba common files used by both the server a04:18
diegojsRWIt doesn't appears on Application list of N81004:18
merlin1991so you do have samba-common installed to be exact you have version 3.0.23c-1osso104:18
merlin1991that's probably due to the fact that it isn't an "aplication" but rather a set of helper files for samba04:19
merlin1991also next time you need to paste more than lets say 2 lines of text please use a pastebin service, ie debian.paste.net04:19
diegojsRWOk, sorry by flooding04:20
infobotmerlin1991 meant: also next time you need to paste more than lets say 2 lines of text please use a pastebin service, ie paste.debian.net04:20
merlin1991typos :S04:20
diegojsRWThen I have to install a smb-client which depends of 3.0.23c-1osso1, right?04:20
merlin1991why do you need an smb client anyway? smb client allows to to access shares from other pcs on your n81004:21
diegojsRWYes, I need it also.04:21
merlin1991the normal samba package is the one that makes it possible to share files from the n810 to other pcs04:21
diegojsRWI need to install either smbfs and smb-client04:22
diegojsRWAnd swat (samba web wizard)04:22
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diegojsRWThanks. I got configure Samba server at N81007:20
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Paliin harmattan sdk is i386 version of bme, seems same as armel12:39
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Palimaybe this version can be used in ida...12:39
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Arkenoicould anyone please remind me, if i get non-functioning cameras and "APMD disconnected" after massive update which includes power kernel, which packages should I reinstall?13:21
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kerioArkenoi: APMD is advanced power monitor13:43
kerionon-functioning cameras... weird, did you have fcam installed?13:43
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Arkenoi"fcam-drivers is already the newest version"13:50
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Arkenoiand how do i repair apmd?13:55
keriouninstall fcamera fcam-drivers hdrcapture lowlight13:55
keriothen reinstall those13:55
kerioi don't know about apmd, sorry13:55
keriomaybe uninstall and reinstall13:56
kerio(purging the config files in the meantime, so do the uninstall with --purge)13:56
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Arkenoiok. camera works now, but i still have no idea how to fix or diagnose apmd14:00
Arkenoibatterygraph works properly meanwhile14:01
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vi_which would be better for P2P voice chat; bluetooth or wifi?14:12
SpeedEvilat Bluetooth ranges, just put the phone down.14:14
vi_Motorcycle to motorcycle.14:15
LaoLang_coolI'm sshing from pc to my n900 via putty on windows, but I find the speed is slow14:15
LaoLang_coolwhat's wrong?14:15
keriovi_: power-wise?14:15
LaoLang_coolI have disabled power saving mode14:15
kerioi think the audio quality could be better via wifi14:15
kerioLaoLang_cool: cpu, maybe?14:16
kerioLaoLang_cool: try usb networking14:16
LaoLang_coolkerio, you mean n900's cpu is slow?14:16
kerioLaoLang_cool: is it just a bit of lag in the shell?14:16
vi_LaoLang_cool: It is a common problem.  No one knows why it is sometimes slow as shit.14:16
LaoLang_coolkerio, yes, a bit of lag14:16
kerioor are you trying to push data through it?14:16
LaoLang_coolmy english is poor ;p14:17
kerioeeh, wifi "problem"14:17
fluxlaolang_cool, try disabling powersaving on n900 wifi14:17
kerioflux: he did14:17
SpeedEvilWiFi may well be longer range14:17
kerioLaoLang_cool: try usb networking14:17
LaoLang_coolkerio, yes, my networking is a wifi enviroment14:17
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fluxin any case, doing that will destroy battery life, so better turn it back on if it didn't help :)14:17
vi_I have piss ssh performance over wifi when on top of my access point sometimes.14:17
vi_Running dd-wrt.14:17
keriovi_: use two walkie talkies14:17
vi_with the power cranked cranked illegally high.14:18
fluxvi_, so it's probably saturating the radio14:18
LaoLang_coolflux, oh! thank your for reminder, I will enable it14:18
vi_also, n900 version off sshd is fucking ancient.14:18
keriovi_: i've found that increasing the tx power only makes the connection worse :(14:18
fluxI seriously doubt sshd has anything to do with this14:18
fluxthe same can probably be observed with ping14:18
keriothat said, i increased it a bit from the default14:18
vi_flux: nope.14:18
vi_flux: run a constant ping in the background and performance still sucks asses.14:19
LaoLang_coolssh to maemo is useless at all, so much lag14:25
SpeedEvillag is solely due to power save in my experience14:26
LaoLang_coolA time wasting thing :)14:26
tadzikmaybe try nice on the sshd?14:26
tadzikwild guess :)14:26
SpeedEvilalso, see
LaoLang_coolI don't know, I set up the ssh connection by wiki step by step, I have no knowledge on ssh at all ;p14:27
* kerio doesn't have a lot of lag14:29
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* DocScrutinizer05 neither15:05
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DocScrutinizer05since I'm using this (otherwise shit from hell) DIR-61515:06
kerioi'm using a sweet, sweet wrt-610n15:14
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff15:19
kerio[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-thumb, you're shit out of luck for multiple reasons15:19
DocScrutinizer05seems in line with my rant yesterday15:20
kerioyep :(15:20
kerioDocScrutinizer05: to be fair if the versioning was done in the correct way (with +foo added at the end) then there would be no problem15:21
DocScrutinizer05>>just in case I'm hit by bus and cssu-t has an important security bugfix << LOL15:21
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hey, the bus factor matters15:22
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I still don't see how such policy wouldn't inadvertedly "downgrade" half of your system to non-thumb versions15:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: wouldn't be a big deal15:22
keriothey still work fine15:23
DocScrutinizer05it's just insane15:23
DocScrutinizer05outright insane15:23
kerioanyway, the weird thing is that now *some* packages are upgradable, and other packages aren't15:23
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keriobecause the versioning is FUBAR because of nokia and other people15:23
DocScrutinizer05no, the concept is insane15:24
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DocScrutinizer05if you want a non-thumbified bugfix version for your thumb system, get it via apt-get install pkg=version15:25
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DocScrutinizer05once the thumb repo got the bugfix as well, you roll back15:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: once the thumb repo gets the bugfix, you *upgrade* :)15:26
DocScrutinizer05that's what I meant15:26
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DocScrutinizer05just apt-get inst pkg=ver will probably break auto-upgrade for that pkg15:27
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hm, are you sure? i don't think it also pins the version15:27
DocScrutinizer05otherwise "upgrade" to old version would kick in the same seconds you finish install via apt-get15:27
kerioi think you have to also echo "packagename hold" | dpkg --set-selections to do that15:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, there's a reason apt asks for confirmation before upgrading :)15:28
keriofreemangordon: DocScrutinizer says (and i might actually agree, weirdly enough) that thumb versions should be higher than any other version, so maybe put "thumb:" as an epoch, before anything else?15:29
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: the thing is, having thumb packages at a higher version than normal ones prevents you from going back to the normal -testing15:31
keriohypothetically, if fmg gets hit by a bus and nobody else picks up the community-thumb project15:32
kerioi know how much you like hypothetical situations that won't happen ;)15:32
vi_thumb rules.15:36
kerioindeed, but the versioning is apparently FUBAR15:36
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keriowe just noticed it15:36
kerioit should've been $version+thumbX, it's $version-thumbX15:36
kerioand that apparently makes apt shit its pants15:36
vi_well who has cssu-t AND thumb repo enabled?15:37
kerio-thumb only has a small number of recompiled packages, the rest come from -testing15:37
vi_well fck testing.  lets just go thumb.15:37
keriothat would be an option, yes15:37
vi_it is the only option.15:38
vi_N900 is a 3 year old device.15:38
vi_Stop getting so hung up about doing things 'proper' and 'the debian way'.15:38
vi_ditch cssu-t15:39
keriovi_: CSSU is also stacked on top of the nokia repos15:39
vi_well idgaf.15:39
vi_fuck everything.15:39
kerioit's repos all the way down!15:39
vi_cssu-thumb is the way it is going to be.15:39
vi_if you do not want it, go suck a fuck.15:40
vi_And use pr 1.1 or something.15:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i think estel stole vi_'s account15:41
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vi_N900 is out of developers and out of time.15:41
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: (well fck testing.  lets just go thumb.) that's nonsense unless you meant that as a policy for your local device. cssu-t is trsting for cssu-s, and cssu-s never will go thumb just for the leeteness15:43
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keriovi_: still doesn't help the versioning issue15:58
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KaffeeJunky123Does anyone here use the qtcreator for maemo application development?17:07
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vi_in C, dafuq this means:18:02
vi_a &= b18:02
vi_a |= b18:02
vi_a &= ~b18:02
vi_a |= ~b18:02
merlin1991last one is easy :D18:05
merlin1991actually all those make sense if I'm right about ~18:05
merlin1991a &= b would store in a the bitwise and of a and b, a |= b is bitwise or18:05
merlin1991a &= ~b would be bitwise and of and inverted b18:06
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kerioPali: how fast is M32G?18:08
Palikerio, it is usable18:08
keriobut slower than the normal mtd install?18:09
Palisomebody wrote that no, somebody yet18:09
PaliI installed a lot of apps and I have a lot of files here, it is slower on my n90018:09
Palibut still usable18:09
kerioPali: you probably know this better than me - is there a sensible way to mount /usr from the eMMC early in the boot process?18:10
Palikerio, not easy18:10
kerioi figured18:10
Paliwhy you need it?18:10
keriothe "easiest" way would be to unconditionally mount it right before init is launched, but then i screw up bootmenu18:11
kerioPali: because the rootfs situation in fremantle on the n900 is absurd18:11
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Palikerio, this is very hard... I think you never got fully working solution...18:11
Paliuse then M32GB18:12
Paliit is what you want18:12
kerioPali: eeh, not quite18:12
keriobut yeah18:12
PaliM32GB load maemo from /home/user/maemo518:12
Palialso /opt is in /home/user/maemo518:12
keriothe thing is, with /usr out of the way then it's possible to disable ubifs compression18:13
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Paliubifs compression is ok18:13
kerioit's really not18:13
kerioit's a kludge made to help with the little space18:13
Paliit is faster then eMMC18:13
keriobut slower than it could be18:13
kerioor something18:13
kerioPali: a good way of doing M32G would be a separate partition on the eMMC18:14
Palikerio, also possible18:14
Palijust create new partition and edit "copy" script and bootmenu item18:15
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Paliand you need to edit /etc/init.d/rcS-late which mount & generate /etc/fstab18:15
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vi_merlin1991: thank you!18:28
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jonne|reconnectei'm confused about the cssu update process20:10
jonne|reconnecteit asks to create a backup, i create backup, then the whole update process starts again20:11
jonne|reconnecteand it won't let me update without backing up20:11
shanttujonne|reconnecte, read this
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jonne|reconnecteah, conflict with operator name widget20:17
DocScrutinizer05((<kerio> but slower than it could be)) not necessarily - if CPU (de)compression can keep up with, or is even faster than IO20:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: fire up another general notice pls20:18
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff20:19
keriojonne|reconnecte: ^20:24
jonne|reconnecteyeah, tnx20:24
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i'm not convinced the CPU can, actually20:24
jonne|reconnectei upgraded the widget seperately, doing the full update now20:25
jonne|reconnecteyes, saw it the first time :)20:28
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's different20:31
DocScrutinizer05actually it's my answer on the one I referred to in general notice20:32
DocScrutinizer05it has recovery "instruction"20:32
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keriois anyone following the iphone 5 announcement?20:42
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jonne|reconnectesort of20:45
jonne|reconnecteit's meh20:45
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merlin1991also as usuall DocScrutinizer05 recovery strategy is a tad overkill21:04
keriohm, no microusb port compatibility in the iphone 521:05
merlin1991quit ham wait 5 min start ham wait, do update opername wait update cssu is enough21:05
keriowasn't that required, in europe?21:05
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jonne|reconnectenot sure about that, kerio21:07
jonne|reconnectei think it's weird too21:07
jonne|reconnectethen again, iphone connector does way more than can be done with microusb, so they'd need to either drop that feature or put 2 ports in their phone21:08
jonne|reconnecteneither of which are an attractive option21:08
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DocScrutinizer05USB charging is mandatory in Europe and China. Micro-USB is mandatory by USB-cert21:15
DocScrutinizer05there's no such thing like mini-USB anymore, officially21:15
DocScrutinizer05NFC about devices that don't ahve *any* USB connector21:16
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess neither USB-cert nor any EU-commission or China Gvmt can force a manufacturer to build a USB port to his product just for charging21:18
DocScrutinizer05if however it already _has_ any USB, it's mandatory that this can do charging too21:19
DocScrutinizer05(btw that's what basically fucked up N900 hostmode)21:20
keriowait, why?21:20
jonne|reconnectei guess for future-proofing21:21
DocScrutinizer05(since, to allow charging from fastcharger, they had to swap PHY chip to allow D+/- detect, which in turn broke hostmode/OTG)21:21
kerioi see21:21
jonne|reconnectebecause otherwise manufacturers would be stuck adding usb ports on phones that are perfectly capable of wireless charging + data exchange21:21
jonne|reconnectein 10 years21:22
keriooh, the previous NITs couldn't charge from usb?21:22
jonne|reconnecteUSB isn't going to last forever21:22
DocScrutinizer05that's why flashing instructions for N8x0 differ from those for N90021:22
keriowell, that's convenient21:22
DocScrutinizer05N8x0 won't power up on plugging in USB21:23
jonne|reconnectehmm, upgrade's been stuck on my n900 for a while now21:23
jonne|reconnectewonder what's going on21:23
DocScrutinizer05so you flash N8x0 entirely while running from battery21:24
* jonne|reconnecte ssh's into phone21:24
* DocScrutinizer05 suspects jonne|reconnecte used something other than HAM for update on CSSU21:25
jonne|reconnecteHAM == app manager?21:25
jonne|reconnecteis what i used21:25
jonne|reconnectei do have fapman installed, though21:25
DocScrutinizer05well, it can take like 5 minutes of timeout21:25
kerioDocScrutinizer05: do you still have to boot to charge?21:26
jonne|reconnectessh can't connect21:26
DocScrutinizer05kerio: ^^^21:26
kerioDocScrutinizer05: in the N8x021:26
DocScrutinizer05even worse than N90021:27
DocScrutinizer05completely sw-controlled21:27
DocScrutinizer05by bme21:27
keriono flatbat recovery? D:21:27
DocScrutinizer05a nasty legacy we still suffer from, on N90021:27
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I think it has some flatbatrecover means21:28
DocScrutinizer05or capabilities21:28
DocScrutinizer05not really nice though21:28
DocScrutinizer05I guess it's just that N8x0 can actually boot with flatbat, since power is from dedicated charger that is known to provide 1A21:29
DocScrutinizer05charging however needs CPU21:29
DocScrutinizer05unlike N900 where bq24150 can do that autonomously21:30
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Spark25xhello guyd22:38
Spark25xwhy the new SSU update ask for connection to pc?22:39
Spark25xis this mandatory?22:39
wmarone_ask in #maemo-ssu22:40
Spark25xwmaarone_ tnx22:40
fredrinLapiphone5 omg omg omg omg22:41
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff22:44
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keriofredrinLap: it's a 16:9 iphone22:50
keriowith a new MAGICAL extra row for icons22:50
kerioand LTE22:50
kerioand a new MAGICAL camera22:51
fredrinLapkerio: :) I know22:52
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fredrinLapjust joining in on the mass hysteria22:52
fredrinLapwhile fighting my n90022:53
kerionoo :(22:53
keriodon't fight your n90022:53
fredrinLapfor some reason it dont replies to ping22:53
keriohe loves you22:53
keriofredrinLap: pings where?22:53
keriowlan or gprs?22:53
kerioiptables -L?22:53
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fredrinLapno rules there22:54
jonne|reconnecteah, looks like the new version of HAM doesn't have the weird error message any more22:55
jonne|reconnectethat's good for next time then22:55
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fredrinLapnot sure what it is all about :(22:56
keriofredrinLap: reboot?22:57
kerioit's kind of a bad advice to diagnose the problem, but it could actually work22:57
kerioalso check your router isn't stupid22:57
fredrinLapkerio: been like this for a long time22:58
fredrinLapbut not the end of the world. will try to update things to see if that helps22:58
keriomaybe your access point has been stupid for a long time :)22:58
DocScrutinizer05jonne|reconnecte: correct22:58
kerioalso try an ad-hoc network22:59
fredrinLapis it custom-operator-name-widget i need to install?22:59
fredrinLapi am on thumb22:59
jonne|reconnectealso, upgrade wasn't really stuck, it rebooted normally after a while22:59
keriofredrinLap: oh, thumb is a whole different bag of bullshit22:59
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff22:59
keriofredrinLap: keep calm and don't upgrade23:00
fredrinLapi am following that link now23:00
keriofredrinLap: if you're on thumb, that link won't help you23:00
kerioif you upgrade, you'll lose a lot of thumb packages23:00
Psotnick I need to display a lot of data rows and they don't fit the screen, and I can't make gtk_label pannable. There's too much rows for N900 screen, how can display it or make gtk_label pannable?23:00
keriobut regardless, it won't actually work due to a slightly major mistake in the versioning of thumb packages23:00
keriowe're working on it :)23:01
DocScrutinizer05fredrinLap: cssu-thumb is a completely different domain, basically. You don't generally want to update cssu-t when you're on cssu-thumb23:01
fredrinLapah, thought cssu-t was cssu-thumb....23:01
keriocssu-t is cssu-testing23:01
DocScrutinizer05fredrinLap: NB cssu-thumb is very bleeding-edge and experimental23:02
DocScrutinizer05(though freemangordon will argue that)23:02
DocScrutinizer05fredrinLap: anyway you need to live with beta-tester user experience when using that sort of bleeding-edge23:03
keriocssu thumb is a recompilation of cssu-testing, so it's as bleeding-edge and experimental23:03
kerioit's just slightly less rigorously tested :323:03
fredrinLapHAM wants me to do: Community SSU enabler, Linux Kernel Community SSU (even though I uses thumb-kernel), Linux kernel for Community SSU (boot image for u-boot and multiboot) and Operator Name Widget....23:03
DocScrutinizer05and slightly less confortably maintained23:03
kerio"Linux Kernel Community SSU" should be the thumb kernel23:04
tadzikHAM wanted me to do nothing today. "No updates", and I'm clearly on the old CSSU23:04
kerioboot image for uboot and multiboot is wrong, wrong, wrong23:04
keriotadzik: cssu-stable?23:04
tadzikkerio: no, testing23:04
* tadzik rechecks23:04
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: cssu-t or cssu-s23:04
tadzik-t I think23:04
tadzikI'm not sure now :)23:04
tadzikhow to easily check?23:04
DocScrutinizer05settings, about CSSU23:05
fredrinLapwhat should I do....23:05
DocScrutinizer05fredrinLap: wait23:05
tadzikthat's the old one alright23:05
* tadzik tries HAM again23:05
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fredrinLapI am on 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo4-thumb1623:06
DocScrutinizer05actually very old, since I thought last one been T4.123:06
keriofredrinLap: that's right23:06
keriofredrinLap: just wait a couple of days23:06
keriofmg needs time to recompile everything23:06
kerioand besides, there's the versioning issue to sort out23:06
fredrinLapI'll wait, want to have ssh working though23:07
keriotadzik: the latest was 4.1, are you sure the repos are set correctly?23:07
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kerioanyway, i suppose people should refer to cssu-thumb as cssu-θ when abbreviating23:07
tadzikkerio: I don't think I modified the repos after enabling cssu-t23:07
tadzikI guess that's Unicode Thumb23:08
kerioit should be U+03B8, GREEK SMALL LETTER THETA23:08
kerioit's the IPA for the voiceless dental fricative23:08
tadzikhuh. I told HAM to update stuff, and it didn't even notice it's offline23:09
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DocScrutinizer05tadzik: you updated with HAM, or used other deprecated methods, before?23:09
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: always with HAM23:10
tadzikwell, I usually update with FAM23:10
tadzikbut not CSSU23:10
keriohere we go23:10
keriotadzik: run apt-get upgrade (without confirming) and tell us what it tells you23:11
tadzikhold on, I clicked "Install" in HAM, and now it demanded the internet and does updates23:11
tadziklet's see where it goes23:11
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't even guess what fapman would think may get autoremoved when you install7update arbitrary stuff with it23:11
kerioDocScrutinizer05: doesn't fapman use the apt algorithms?23:12
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: you're sure you ever did "update catalogs"?23:12
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: IE you maybe set your auto-update period to 57 years or sth?23:13
DocScrutinizer05kerio: nfc23:13
tadzikok, it now noticed23:13
tadzikDocScrutinizer05: yes, I did23:13
tadzikI thought it'd maybe update it anyway if I explicitely say "update stuff"23:14
tadzikapparently not23:14
DocScrutinizer05not reliably at least23:14
DocScrutinizer05I also had to select "update catalogs" from HAM menu yesterday23:15
DocScrutinizer05simply hitting the rightmost huge button in HAM doesn't really cut it23:15
keriofredrinLap: i made this for you :)
tadzikhuh, I have no "update catalogs". Only something along "restore catalogs" (I have Polish translatino)23:16
fredrinLapkerio: :D23:16
tadzikno, "restore applications" even23:16
tadzikand now it says "no catalogs in use", bastard23:16
DocScrutinizer05umm, well, edit catalog or whatever23:16
* kerio looks at aptitude, that installs a .desktop launcher for hildon that just says "sudo aptitude"23:18
* kerio sighs23:18
kerioi don't even23:18
tadzikwell, there's an ncurses app there, maybe23:18
tadzikwith minesweeper and all this23:18
keriono, i mean23:18
kerioit doesn't install a matching file in sudoers.d23:19
kerioso i can't actually launch it23:19
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: I click "catalogs" arbbitrary catalog from list, "strore" and close the requester by clicking background23:19
keriowithout abusing the sudo timeout23:19
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: maybe, when clickung "update" frontpage button, HAM also does hidden update, but it takes a while and until then there's showing "no updates available"23:20
tadzikok, it's pretending to work now23:20
tadzikI ran apt-get update, which complained about some bollocks, but now HAM works23:21
* tadzik shrugs23:21
DocScrutinizer05fair enough23:21
DocScrutinizer05I guess the trick is to keep the "update" screen open for some 5 minutes and wait till the notice "no updates available" gets replaced by the true message23:22
tadzikuh. It now wants me to use Nokia PC Suite?23:22
keriotadzik: read the general notice23:23
tadzikah, the Operator Widget23:23
tadzikmy bad, sorry23:23
DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff23:23
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keriohrmpf, why did i have hildon-desktop-application-shortcuts-mr0 installed23:26
DocScrutinizer05prolly because it comes with maemo?23:27
kerioit's just ovi.desktop23:27
* DocScrutinizer05 bets on this containing the skype installer desktop icon, the guided tour, and other similar useless cruft23:28
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nope, just ovi23:28
keriothe skype installer is in skype-installer23:28
keriohm, no it's not23:29
keriois there even a skype installer?23:29
DocScrutinizer05if there ever been, it got nuked on my device 3 years ago23:29
keriooh come on, why does the cssu metapackage depend on skype-ui-l10n-*?23:30
* kerio hrmpfs23:31
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly ponders to get some Here_I_Am_feedback to next cssu-t and cssu-s. Sth that pings somewhere to increase a "global number of installs" counter and then removes itself from system23:31
DocScrutinizer05kerio: :-S23:32
kerioDocScrutinizer05: hehe, a cherry replacement for cssu23:33
DocScrutinizer05MP is EVIL23:33
kerionah, better make our own23:33
DocScrutinizer05kerio: not really, since it neither sends some SMS, nor any privacy data23:33
keriowe need a fruit23:33
kerioit should put itself in MyDocs, that's usually the most resilient place on the n90023:35
kerioi mean, the file that says that it sent the data successfully23:35
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: guided tour is tutorial-home-applet23:36
DocScrutinizer05nah, we're not that evil, we shall open a requester on post-install that asks "send anonymous 'thank you' to CSSU crew to let them know somebody used their stuff?" [yes] [no] [later]23:37
tadzikyay, new cssu abouard23:37
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: congrats23:37
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: and a tiny tiny notice "* thank you in this case means an sms to a 1,4€ number that goes right into docs poket" ? ;)23:38
DocScrutinizer05no not really23:39
kerioi'd donate the shit out of my spare change to the community23:39
kerioif i could23:39
DocScrutinizer05I more thought of an actual ping or wget to a certain URL23:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: nah, something slightly more reliable23:39
DocScrutinizer05we don't need any reliability to get any idea of how many users CSSU actually has23:40
keriowe do23:40
tadzikwell, you could look at the repo server logs, no?23:40
keriotadzik: then we'd get wildly inaccurate figures23:41
DocScrutinizer05what we need though is some PR and maybe a notifier package in maemo-extras23:41
DocScrutinizer05that simply opens the cssu website in browser, on installation23:41
tadzikkerio: how inaccurate? I don't think people update to the same cssu twice _that_ often23:41
keriowhat even *is* updating to a cssu release?23:41
DocScrutinizer05tadzik: we *could*, if we could23:42
tadzikthat says that some user is using CSSU and updating it from time to time, no?23:42
keriodownloading the metapackage? i had to do that like four times while toying between cssu-t and cssu-θ23:42
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: ^^^ asked X-Fade about it?23:43
merlin1991wtf is -θ23:43
DocScrutinizer05some greek crap23:43
kerioin the international phonetic alphabet, a voiceless dental fricative23:43
kerioaka the "th" in thing, or thumb23:44
tadzikshame, that Unicode has "front facing baby chick" but no thumb23:44
keriotadzik: japs are weird23:44
kerio(i assume that's an emoji)23:44
tadzikMiscellaneous Symbols And Pictographs23:45
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jaskatheres also a pile of poop unicode23:45
tadzikI wouldn't be surprised at all23:46
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jaskaeverything and the kitchen sink..23:51
kerioyeah, unicode is supposed to encode **everything**23:51
keriolike, everything that was ever written23:51
SpeedEvilonly that someone has bothered to push for inclusion in.23:52
jaskaits.. a waste of space and human resources, they should have stopped long before adding emoji garbage.23:52
* DocScrutinizer05 already suggested graphics card that doesn't use pixels and a framebuffer, but actually all unicode23:53
jaskalike mda.. but with gigabytes of font space?23:53
SpeedEvilvariable font size is tricky23:53
SpeedEvilas is rotated23:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: as an upgrade to the ATI Radeon 9500 ASC?23:53
DocScrutinizer05actually in the early 80s I 'invented' such a display, based on a scope tube and a lot of analog circuitry, to display arbitrary numbers of elisoids, polygons, bsplines, characters etc, based on parameters stored in a digital sequencer23:58
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keriopff, come on, nobody believes the early 80s actually existed23:59

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