IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-09-13

DocScrutinizer05(characters were actually planned to be just a predefined special from of the general usage macros definable by user)00:00
kerioooh, so you'd actually just draw vectorized letters?00:00
keriohow fast was it at drawing?00:00
DocScrutinizer05never seen anything but the paper it got designed on00:01
DocScrutinizer05a feasibility study for fun00:01
kerioso... was it feasible?00:01
DocScrutinizer05in theory yes, but if it was economically sensible is another question00:02
kerioanyway, vector videogames were really popular in the 80s00:02
DocScrutinizer05original asteroids been vector graphics00:02
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DocScrutinizer05real vector graphics, down to the tube00:03
DocScrutinizer05no vector graphics lib painting into a matrix framebuffer00:04
kerioand now beautifully antialiased by MAME :)00:05
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DocScrutinizer05oh yeah :-P >>ATI also announced a card under development which would support Unicode gaming. "It's a real chicken or the egg scenario. Do we make a card that supports Unicode gaming before there are games, or will the games appear after we make the card. We hope this announcement gets the game giants in gear."<<00:13
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DocScrutinizer05[GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff04:25
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: [GENERAL NOTICE] when you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff04:26
DocScrutinizer05err, nm04:26
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LaoLang_coolis there a way to run contacts and locate to a specify contact from cli?04:59
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DocScrutinizer05ooh, *run* contacts05:07
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, could you point me the way please?05:07
LaoLang_coolI want to invoke the application of contacts, and locate to a contact05:07
DocScrutinizer05well, if I understood what you said, I suggest you look at desktop shortcuts05:07
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, I want to do it in cli, desktop shortcuts needs to be created before use05:09
DocScrutinizer05I siad "look at"05:09
DocScrutinizer05if they are some sort of .desktop file, they probably have some commandline in them05:10
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, oh! DocScrutinizer05 thank you, will look at it05:10
DocScrutinizer05sorry I got no better hints05:11
LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, it's a smart way to start :)05:11
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LaoLang_cooloh, I'm not clear which dir they are in?05:12
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LaoLang_coolThey aren't at /usr/share/applications/hildon-home/ :(05:14
Skryuse find05:14
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LaoLang_coolSkry, I don't know the file's name :(05:15
LaoLang_coolsay a contact of "Foo Bar"05:15
LaoLang_coolwhat the file name of it?05:15
Skrydont know about that but if you want to find your .desktop files: find / -name "*.desktop"05:17
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DocScrutinizer05another idea: dbus-monitor while you click on such a contact-shortcut. I'd be surprised if dbus wasn't involved in invoking contacts app on a particular contact05:24
DocScrutinizer05you want to monitor session bus for that, not system bus05:25
SkryDocScrutinizer05: dont know if you're interested but found out the cause and fix for the cpufreq/sr issue we talked about05:27
DocScrutinizer05of course there's also documentation about all that, I recall a djungle of objects, called roaster and whatnot else05:27
LaoLang_cooloh, too complicated to me :(05:27
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LaoLang_coolwill use find05:28
SkryDocScrutinizer05: yeah, problem is oscillator frequency used in N900 combined with the fact that frequency rounding was removed from cpufreq at some point so N900 freqs dont match the ones in OPP table05:29
Skryso cpufreq sets frequency, fails but sets voltages nevertheless, and we have a lockup05:30
LaoLang_coolI don't think I have found a .desktop file relative to the shortcuts on desktop :(05:32
LaoLang_coolby find / -name "*.desktop"05:32
LaoLang_coolmaybe the shortcut on desktop is a special case05:33
DocScrutinizer05I think they are widgets handled by hildon-desktop itself05:33
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DocScrutinizer05you could check which files in your home dir were modified exactly the time you created the desktop contact shortcut05:36
DocScrutinizer05and you could use ~# dbus-monitor --session05:38
DocScrutinizer05or search wiki (phonecontrol) and see if something already is mentioned there05:38
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LaoLang_coolDocScrutinizer05, thank you for advice, will do it when have time05:58
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LaoLang_coolHow to usb networking? I'm following the instruction on maemo wiki, don't know how to install usb-otg-plugin, apt-get install can't find it10:09
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kerioSkry: is it fixable?10:27
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LaoLang_coolHello. How to usb networking? I'm following the instruction on maemo wiki, don't know how to install usb-otg-plugin, apt-get install can't find it10:41
keriothose instructions are for the N8x010:43
LaoLang_coolkerio, thank you, will read it10:43
kerioanyway, there's really not much to it, if you just want to make the n900 and the computer communicate10:44
keriomake sure g_nokia is loaded, ifup usb010:44
kerioand then configure the network on the pc side10:44
kerioif you're on windows, HAH10:44
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LaoLang_coolyes, on the windows :)10:45
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LaoLang_coolkerio, I have installed MADDE and edited the files of pcsuite-*.sh11:14
LaoLang_coolhow to load g_nokia and ifup usb0 ?11:14
keriog_nokia is loaded whenever you enter pc suite mode on the n90011:14
kerio(you don't have to *be* in pc-suite mode, just that it should be the last mode you entered)11:14
LaoLang_coolI have connected n900 via pc suite mode, but nothing happened...11:14
keriolsmod | grep g_11:14
kerioit's going to be either g_nokia or g_file_storage11:15
kerio(or g_ether, i think)11:15
LaoLang_coolkerio, yes, it has been loaded11:15
LaoLang_coolg_nokia    30376  611:15
keriothen find a way to kick windows into shape11:15
kerionot sure if there's one11:15
keriothe n900 should appear as a network card on your computer's side11:15
LaoLang_coolkerio, what do you mean "kick windows into shape"?11:16
kerioinstall drivers or something11:16
keriofollow the wiki11:16
keriofrom the n900's side, sudo ifup usb011:16
LaoLang_coolI have installed MADDE and usb networking driver11:16
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LaoLang_coolmaybe I need a reboot? I will try11:17
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LaoLang_coolI dont understand "This will only work if you got MADDE installed and configured for "Windows network"11:20
LaoLang_coolHow to configure?11:20
LaoLang_coolI just installed MADDE11:20
LaoLang_coolNo gui configure tools...11:20
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LaoLang_coolok, after restart windows, still no luck...11:32
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LaoLang_coolI haven't done this step I think: got MADDE installed and configured for "Windows network"11:37
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LaoLang_coolI have got MADDE installed, but I don't know how to conifgure it11:37
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LaoLang_coolI can ping, but I can't ping, I have set up the resolv.conf11:58
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Palihi, it is possible to get reason why/who stopping init.d/event.d script?13:55
PaliI'd like to add option, if script is stopped by reboot/shutdown command or by user13:55
Palior I'd like to handle SIGINT/SIGTERM command and decide what to do if system is in shutdown/reboot state...13:56
PaliDocScrutinizer05, see ^^^13:56
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Pali/sbin/runlevel is shell script which print only "N 2"14:06
Paliso it is unusable on upstart systems (like maemo)14:06
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keriohm, what's the stuff in /etc/event.replace.d?14:18
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Skrykerio: is what fixable?14:35
kerioSkry: the voltage confusions14:36
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Skrysure, for now it is just a matter of reverting one commit, so cpufreq can round voltages so it can find a match from OPP14:37
keriowhat would that entail?14:37
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kerioSR would be stable?14:37
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SkryNo, SR is still unstable, it just makes cpufreq work without lockin up14:38
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freemangordonSkry: which kernel is that?14:39
Skryfreemangordon: 3.6 and 3.514:40
freemangordonon n900?14:40
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freemangordoni see. well, according to what I know, SR cannot be made stable using what TI has programmed in efuse14:41
freemangordonit is just garbadge14:41
Skrytrue, with, n900 there is one certain voltage value which makes the device lockup14:42
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freemangordonSkry: the problem is that all devices have the same calibrations for OPP3-OPP514:42
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freemangordonSkry: the good news is that calibrations for OPP1 and OPP2 are ok ;)14:43
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aklsis it possible to install rootsh on n900 without internet?14:44
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freemangordonSkry: so the rest can be extrapolated. look at my SR patch in KP if you are interested14:45
kerioakls: yeah14:45
keriobut rootsh is bad14:45
DocScrutinizer05any netsplit detected?14:45
kerioDocScrutinizer05: kinda big netsplit, yes14:45
aklskerio, it's bad? then what should I use?14:45
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Skryfreemangordon: I'm not that interested in SR, got the cpufreq fixed so that should be enough for now14:46
kerioakls: well, to be fair the intended way is to just enter r&d mode14:46
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders whether to reboot infobot14:46
aklskerio, how?14:46
kerioakls: nah, that's a silly thing14:46
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* kerio ponders about making a tiny .deb that installs a file in /etc/sudoers.d/14:46
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aklskerio, sudo flasher --enable-rd-mode ?14:47
freemangordonSkry: well, it is up to you, but SR is very very good thing to have working.14:47
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keriofreemangordon: wait, so is SR usable or not?14:47
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freemangordonkerio: where?14:47
kerioon my n90014:47
freemangordondoes it work?14:48
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!14:48
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kerioit used to14:48
keriothen i disabled it, because everyone says that it's useless and/or instable14:48
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kerioakls: yep14:48
freemangordonkerio: now, who is that "everyone"?14:48
kerio"sudo gainroot" is always doable, but it checks for rd-mode14:49
kerioonce you have a root shell, i'd manually add your own sudoers file14:49
kerioand then disable rd-mode14:49
keriofreemangordon: every sentient being in the universe14:49
kerioor maybe someone on the wiki14:50
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: please stop trolling akl14:51
Skryfreemangordon: I have it enabled in "my" kernel so if user wants to use it he can enable it via sysfs, however, when engineers from both TI and Nokia say it is unstable and broken on 3430, it is unstable. Besides, I dont see any logic of using two separate methods to scale voltages at the same time.14:51
DocScrutinizer05akls even14:51
kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, seriously, it works14:51
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keriocheck /usr/sbin/gainroot and /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo14:52
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: how would you enable r&d flag?14:52
keriothe flasher?14:52
DocScrutinizer05on device???14:52
keriofrom a computer14:53
DocScrutinizer05yeah :-/14:53
DocScrutinizer05everybody got rootsh installed14:53
kerionot me14:53
kerioit's the reason i won't install qtmobilehotspot14:53
kerioit depends on that POS14:53
kerioi really hope it doesn't pipe commands to it14:54
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DocScrutinizer05akls: you might want to sanitize rootsh by enabling proper password query for commands "root" and "sudo gainroot". See14:55
infobotmethinks jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I hope you checked qtmobilehotspot and gave it proper rating in testing so it never makes it into maemo-extras14:56
keriohmm... no i did not14:57
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kerioplenty of packages depend on rootsh14:57
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DocScrutinizer05then plenty of packages deserve demoting14:58
kerioincluding stuff like "optimizen900", "clean900", "nitroid-installer"14:58
* kerio lols14:58
* DocScrutinizer05 pukes14:58
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DocScrutinizer05lrn2sudo, fools!!!14:59
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keriohow do i vote down?14:59
DocScrutinizer05I'm tempted to roll a new version of rootsh that does things proper, incl asking for password, and then watch all that crap go down epically15:00
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DocScrutinizer05once stuff is in extras, you can't15:00
vi_chinese li-ion charger==USB 5V charger with 0.8v Zener across the output.15:00
DocScrutinizer05stuff in testing has rating buttons15:00
kerioqtmobilehotspot is in extras-testing and extras-devel15:00
freemangordonSkry: well, we have at least 2 proves that what YI and Noika say is not alwasy true - USB hostmode and thumb215:00
vi_Relying on USB port maximum current to control current.15:01
DocScrutinizer05vi_: /o\15:01
keriovote down plskthx15:01
DocScrutinizer05kerio: then go to extras-testing, add comment explaining why you give it thumbs-down15:01
freemangordonSkry: what is the other method to control voltages?15:01
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Skryfreemangordon: cpufreq does both15:02
DocScrutinizer05kerio: I first need to check it before voting it down15:02
kerioDocScrutinizer05: Depends: [...] rootsh [...]15:02
freemangordonSkry: aah, I see. But SR does a totally different thing15:02
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: in that page15:03
kerioqtmobilehotspot 0.3.515:03
kerio>Promotion unlocked, waiting for maintainer to promote15:03
keriooh hell naw15:03
vi_I am late to the party, what is the argument?15:03
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keriovi_: packages that depend on rootsh15:03
vi_Also, SR and is stable and thumb rules.15:03
vi_In addition to this, rootsh works fine.  Deal with it.15:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: qradio depends on rootsh too, and that's in extras15:04
freemangordonvi_: just a note: SR is stable with KP ;)15:04
keriovi_: rootsh is a massive kludge15:04
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vi_freemangordon: Thats what I meant!15:05
vi_kerio: IDGAF.15:05
vi_Maemo5==A MASSIVE KLUDGE.15:05
Skryfreemangordon: yeah, I know that, k hilman just convinced me that when cpufreq does the voltage scaling itself, benefits from SR would be minimal -> not worth the instability. Anyways, you were saying that problems with SR are caused by the same reason I had trouble with cpufreq?15:06
aklsguys, I've just bought my phone15:06
aklsand wireless is not working out of the box15:06
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kerioakls: it should15:06
kerioakls: anyway, have you installed the latest PR from nokia yet?15:06
aklsI simply can't see any networks. My friend bought a phone with me - everything is fine on his phone15:06
aklskerio, yes.15:06
vi_akls: Is that supposed to be a question or an allusion to disgruntlement?15:07
keriovi_: oh shush15:07
kerioakls: which region is your n900 from?15:07
DocScrutinizer05friggin testing pages always make me want to click "send" again, after 60s of waiting15:08
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vi_akls: Re-flash to stock pr1.3 firmware to eliminate the possibillity of software and try again.  If it still does not work, take it back.15:08
kerioakls: tried rebooting already?15:08
aklskerio, how could I know, bought it from ebay15:08
aklskerio, of course!15:08
kerioakls: have you done a full reflash?15:08
aklskerio, what's a "FULL" reflash?15:09
kerioflashed both VANILLA and COMBINED with flasher-3.515:09
DocScrutinizer05any supertester around to vote down ?15:09
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: ^^^?15:09
kerioDocScrutinizer05: how did rootsh end up in extras anyway?15:11
kerioit has all the signs of a bad, bad, bad package15:12
DocScrutinizer05that's historical15:12
DocScrutinizer05see who did it, and when15:12
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kerioMaintainers: Faheem Pervez, Pali Rohár15:13
kerioPali: oh you15:13
DocScrutinizer05tbh there's worse crap around: sudser etc15:13
Paliyes, I promoted new patched version to extras15:13
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: pali kinda fixed worst borkage of it15:13
Paliin extras was old version which has broken postrm15:13
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: Pali: damage done by Faheem Pervez. All we can do now is roll a better-rootsh that also secures HAM via hildon-su and thus allows to really kinda get some little bit of sanity & security back on fremantle15:16
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DocScrutinizer05hell, it can even conflict with rootsh (original)15:17
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Palioriginal rootsh is not packages15:17
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Palioriginal rootsh is only in FIASCO rootfs image15:18
DocScrutinizer05you mean it's not a proper package with uninstall etc?15:18
Palipreinst script moving existing rootsh to new location15:18
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Paliand postrm moving old roosh back15:18
DocScrutinizer05I mean the rootsh from repo15:18
kerioDocScrutinizer05: you mean gainroot?15:18
Palithis doing extras rootsh package15:18
DocScrutinizer05the package called rootsh15:19
Palirootsh is package which provide gainroot15:19
kerionot really, gainroot is provided by sudo15:19
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DocScrutinizer05I'd really appreciate some help on creating a clean way to secure HAM, preferrably in a generic way by using some hildon-su15:21
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: are we allowed to modify HAM?15:21
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DocScrutinizer05why not15:21
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DocScrutinizer05cssu already did it, hell - pali did it15:22
kerioDocScrutinizer05: we need a better sudo15:22
DocScrutinizer05I want a fremantle system with proper root password, and no way to install shit like rootsh that neuters it15:23
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: better sudo with askpass support (and maybe sudoers.d support so we don't need update-sudoers)15:23
DocScrutinizer05I'm all for getting better (newer) sudo, that relieves us from pita of update-sudoers abomination15:23
kerioand then make HAM call sudo -A appropriate-graphical-password-asking-program apt-worker whatevs15:24
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kerioso proficient users can remove the passwordless sudo on apt-worker, and then it'll just ask for the password15:24
DocScrutinizer05Pali: you're still with us? :-)15:24
RST38hAh, fun, fun15:25
DocScrutinizer05moo RST38h15:25
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: actually it can be done without modifying HAM15:25
keriowe do need a password-asking binary though15:25
DocScrutinizer05call that hildon-su15:25
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: no, just a password asking15:26
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RST38hpassword asking, email sending binary15:27
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: in fact, with a good sudo that knows about the graphical askpass we don't need *any* modifications to HAM apart from the removal of NOPASSWD15:27
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RST38hwhat can be better than that?15:28
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: we discussed all this some days ago. There's zenity for now, and we concluded we'd need some modifications to HAM (to include -a, no hildon-su parameter needed since that can get passed by ENV), and we need sudo that supports -a15:28
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keriocan zenity ask for a password?15:28
DocScrutinizer05even hides input15:29
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DocScrutinizer05zenity --help-entry15:30
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kerioit's trivial to make a zenity-askpass that does what sudo expects, yes15:30
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DocScrutinizer05zenity --entry --hide-text --text="please enter root password"15:30
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Hurriankerio, ham alternative that directly uses apt?15:31
DocScrutinizer05what sudo *would* expect - if sudo wasn't prehistoric crap15:31
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DocScrutinizer05but you already remarked a few days ago that this method would ask for root password on each new interactive operation user does on HAM15:32
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: nope15:33
keriowe exploit sudo's timeout15:33
DocScrutinizer05and it still needs HAM to use "sudo -a apt-worker" instead of "sudo apt-worker"15:33
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DocScrutinizer05kerio:  ok, feasible15:33
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: modern sudos automatically call askpass if they're not on a tty15:34
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kerioand you can specify askpass in sudoers15:34
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kerioit's just an envvar15:34
DocScrutinizer05sorry I confused that with ENV15:34
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DocScrutinizer05so who's going to provide sudo update for cssu?15:35
DocScrutinizer05meh, cssu is a project. it doesn't magically breed new packages15:36
keriook, the last person to say "not me" on irc15:36
kerionot me15:36
DocScrutinizer05we need somebody willing to create and maintain new sudo15:36
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DocScrutinizer05we also need further review of that concept. I'm not that self-confident to claim I already figured each possible security flaw it might hide15:38
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: you already mentioned things like direct invocation of sudo apt-worker when I pondered to run HAM under root permissions, with hildon-su wrapper15:39
kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, it would be the same15:39
kerioso at worst we have the same security15:40
DocScrutinizer05we need proper review of our concept, by a few other sensible devels15:40
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I'm not going to mess with all that shit to end with "same security as before", you know ;-)15:40
kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, the security will increase if the user removes NOPASSWD15:41
DocScrutinizer05the purpose of this effort is to improve security15:41
kerioyeah but there's not even the *concept* of a user password in fremantle15:41
kerioby default15:41
DocScrutinizer05root password15:41
kerioyeah but there's not even the *concept* of a password in fremantle15:42
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DocScrutinizer05in hildon, right15:42
DocScrutinizer05in fremantle, sure there is15:42
kerioDocScrutinizer05: not as presented to the user15:42
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keriotoday on #maemo: DocScrutinizer learns about sshd15:47
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* DocScrutinizer05 goes getting a coffee15:47
keriothere's not even a /root/.ssh/15:47
kerioi don't have it, i never ran ssh as root \_o_/15:48
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l ~root/.ssh/15:48
DocScrutinizer05insgesamt 815:48
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DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1115 2007-11-15 21:07 authorized_keys15:48
DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2136 2012-04-22 12:50 known_hosts15:48
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keriosure, but that's unrelated to what sshd does15:48
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DocScrutinizer05sure, that's why the folder is named .ssh15:49
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DocScrutinizer05guess where sshd will look for authorized_keys when I log in a s root15:49
kerioguess how related *that* is to the identification of the server by ssh15:50
keriossh's identification goes both ways15:50
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DocScrutinizer05guess where sshd will look for authorized_keys when I log in a s root15:54
DocScrutinizer05you're right that's not the host authentication key15:54
DocScrutinizer05 [Notice] -christel- [Global Notice] Hi all, not only would it seem that Christmas came early this year, we must also have been much nicer than we thought! We're receiving a steady stream of packets at present and apologise for any inconvenience whilst we try work around the issue! Again, sorry and thank you for using freenode!15:54
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jaskaxmas packets15:56
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, kicked me out15:58
DocScrutinizer05kerio: still alive?15:59
kerionope :(15:59
kerioa sniper killed me15:59
kerionow i inhabit my laptop15:59
* DocScrutinizer05 sends hypersnyper15:59
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kerioanyway, yeah, you were wrong :316:00
DocScrutinizer05yeah, publicly admitting you were right about auth key16:00
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infobotyou are probably <DocScrutinizer> [...] kerio is correct [...]16:00
keriothe power of ellipses!16:01
DocScrutinizer05you however were wrong about ~/.ssh being unrelated to sshd16:02
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keriowell of course, authorized_keys is to login with a keypair16:02
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DocScrutinizer05since ~/.ssh/authorized_keys evidently is used by sshd16:02
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DocScrutinizer05now for something completely new and different: hildon-su and contemporary proper sudo binary16:03
DocScrutinizer05for sudo binary I bet any increase in size will be ballanced by reduced size of /etc/sudoers messed up file16:04
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DocScrutinizer05I already told you (and you noticed it) that hildon-askpass has no option to switch it to only one password textbox16:05
DocScrutinizer05shall I scan the chanlog?16:06
keriono, that's maemo-ask-password or something16:06
DocScrutinizer05for hysterical raisins that class of programs is named <desktop>-su, or <desktop>su: KDEsu16:07
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keriocan't we just get gksu compiled for maem?16:07
kerioi still don't get which toolkit we're supposed to use on the n90016:08
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Skryi'd like to know that too16:09
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DocScrutinizer05obviously on fremantle we're free to use gtk or qt or qtm16:10
Skryyeah but which is the recommended one16:11
DocScrutinizer05with each of them supported by a number of toolkits, like pyqt16:11
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DocScrutinizer05recommended? seems qt is most preferred one, generally16:11
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: would you see any chance you throw "new" sudo into maemo make machine?16:15
Palisorry, no time for other project16:15
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if it will work to simply scp user@oldbox/scratchbox /16:17
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DocScrutinizer05rather, if scratchbox will work on new machine16:17
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DocScrutinizer05(given both machines use basically same distro)16:18
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dhbikerjust updated my n90016:23
dhbikerand now it doesnt want connect to internet16:23
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dhbikersays No connections availible16:27
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keriodhbiker: reboot?16:31
dhbikeralready did16:31
DocScrutinizer05updated from ? to ?16:32
dhbikercssu testing to 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.116:33
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: you observerd [general notice]?16:33
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DocScrutinizer05 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff16:34
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DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: your "settings -> about_CSSU" shows 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo5.1?16:35
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dhbikeri did so16:37
dhbikeropername widget16:37
dhbikerthen cssu16:37
dhbikerand yes16:37
vi_so, after dis-assembling this chinese USB charger I have found the 5V output is wired backwards.16:39
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keriovi_: lol16:39
vi_Yes, wired backwards.16:39
vi_What 'engineer' comes up with this shit?16:40
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dhbikerDocScrutinizer05: so this means restore the backupmenu backup ? -.-16:40
keriothe PRC didn't get this far by double-checking the connectors16:40
vi_How can they look their wives in the face and say, 'yes, I had a good day today honey'.16:40
keriodhbiker: not really16:40
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kerioi have no idea how to diagnose an ICD2 problem16:41
dhbikerprobably the easiest wa16:41
DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: I don't see why your system has problems16:41
DocScrutinizer05anyway restoring BM backup and restarting all over again seems a sane idea16:41
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dhbikercopying the backup to phone16:42
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DocScrutinizer05dhbiker: you know this should be done in BM as well?16:42
vi_I just threw out a rattly 18650 cell.16:42
dhbikeroh ?16:42
vi_Yes, rattly.16:42
vi_They had put a tiny battery in an 18650 size tube.16:43
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DocScrutinizer05seen similar crap every now and then16:43
DocScrutinizer05very popular: use AAA NiMH cell in a A case16:44
keriovi_: that's hilarious16:44
vi_I knew these batteries were utter shit as soon as I saw the '3800mAH' written on the side.16:44
vi_But this?16:45
vi_My brain cannot handle bullshit of this magnitude.16:45
ShadowJKthey used to wrap it in paper to avoid rattling16:46
kerioDocScrutinizer05: backupmenu only charges with .5A, right?16:46
vi_There is an economic depression on you knw.16:46
vi_Cannot waste good paper these days.16:46
DocScrutinizer05kerio: probably16:46
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kerioyeah, otherwise there would be no way to use usb MSM and stuff like that16:46
ShadowJKvi_; some people would argue anyone buying a "3800 mAh" 18650 deserves to have it blow off their hand16:47
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: your brain refuses to acknowledge they pulled a fast one on you16:47
* kerio buys an AAA in a 18650 case marked as "very original fusion power infinite battery"16:47
vi_I did not specifically buy it, it came with some random tat I bought from China.16:48
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vi_But I do recognise them as the batteries that have exploded from a thread on a flashlight forum.16:49
vi_In that case the flashlight had 3 18650 in series.16:49
vi_One cell had reversed polarity.16:49
DocScrutinizer05err the one that nuked the balkony?16:49
vi_DocScrutinizer05: No, it nuked some old guys hands.16:49
keriopoor dude16:49
vi_Severe burns, nothing more.16:50
DocScrutinizer05vi_: link?16:50
vi_let me try.16:50
teotwakiWhenever I see something like that in a forum, I'm reminded of the alleged samsung s3 that exploded16:53, sftp oldbox /scratchbox to newbox. oldbox /scratchbox: 4.7G. newbox /scratchbox: 5GB and counting :-/16:53
teotwakiwhen really, the guy dunked it into the water.16:53
kerioDocScrutinizer05: i heard you like symlinks16:53
teotwakiAND THEN thought it would be a good idea to connect it to a powerline16:53
jaskaor hardlinks16:53
jaskaand bindmounts :)16:53
vi_teotwaki: Seriously?16:53
teotwakiHe accused samsung of selling faulty devices16:54
teotwakiblogged about it16:54
teotwakiSamsung sent a VP over to give him a new one16:54
DocScrutinizer05no bindmounts, scratchbox not started16:54
teotwakiAnd then, samsung, looking closely at the device, said "Wait a minute, this device didn't explode"16:54
vi_I know people in general do not have a clue about electronics but you think they would grasp electricity+water==mega fail.16:55
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DocScrutinizer05and >> -r      Recursively copy entire directories when uploading and downloading.  Note that sftp does not follow symbolic links encountered in the tree traver-             sal.16:56
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dhbikerthere we go16:56
dhbikerrestored backup16:57
dhbikernow to the update part again xD16:57
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: \_o_/17:02
keriotransparent compression?17:03
DocScrutinizer054.7gb -> 6.5GB and counting17:03
DocScrutinizer05how many hardlinks could be in there that du actually notices?17:04
kerioa lot, apparently17:04
keriomost importantly, how many hardlinks are in there that you're not remaking here?17:04
DocScrutinizer05aiui sftp doesn't even know about hardlinks17:05
DocScrutinizer05hardlinks are pretty hard to handle17:05
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DocScrutinizer05there's no pointer on inode entry A->(somefile) to tell about arbitrary B->(samefile)17:06
DocScrutinizer05basically you have to check *all* inode entries on that volume, for those that have same data inode number17:07
DocScrutinizer05only clue is counter about total number of inode entries pointing to that file17:07
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DocScrutinizer05so, to copy, your program needs to enter each inode number of a file that has inode count >1 to a list, and before that check if the list already has same inode number for another file17:09
DocScrutinizer05in that case don't copy data but rather create hardlink to the already existing other file17:09
keriodoes scp do that?17:11
jaskatar knows about them17:12
PaliFAIL, maemo system can be unbootable after calling reboot/halt/poweroff/shutdown17:13
Paliproblem is that dsme is exited abnormal if is killed by init in shutdown process17:13
kerioDocScrutinizer05: btw, why are you using scp?17:13
keriothis is a local transfer, right?17:14
PaliI saw this problem, sometimes when I called sudo reboot phone was rebooted and then somebody turned it off before X started17:14
kerioPali: damn, are you sure about that?17:14
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Palidsme sending broadcast messages that system going offline17:14
DocScrutinizer05kerio: sftp17:15
Paliand some processes like hildon-* doing some stuff on it17:15
Paliand dsme storing STATE file17:15
kerioDocScrutinizer05: what happened to tar jv dir | nc foo 31337?17:15
Paliwhen soembody tell that DSME should shutdown system17:15
kerioby the way, why isn't /tmp a tmpfs?17:15
DocScrutinizer05it fell apart due to lack of inner coherence17:16
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: (tmpfs) maybe because we're already short on free memory?17:17
PaliI'm suggesting to create wrapper around UPSTART /sbin/shutdown utility which will call DSME reboot/shutdown function17:17
kerioDocScrutinizer05: and we can't spare 100K?17:17
iluminator105how do you enable front facing camera to be on for surveillance17:17
kerioright now my /tmp is 84K17:17
DocScrutinizer05open a pdf in browser and see what your tmp is like, then17:18
Lava_Croft1349 < divVerent> in busybox it's a forkbomb too17:18
Lava_Croft1350 < divVerent> change the 1024 to 1048576 for nice forkbomb effect ;)17:18
Lava_Croft1356 < divVerent> #!/bin/busybox sh17:18
Lava_Croft1356 < divVerent> S=`yes | head -n 32769`; while :; do exec <<EOF; done17:18
Lava_Croft1356 < divVerent> $S17:18
Lava_Croft1356 < divVerent> EOF17:18
Lava_Croft1356 < divVerent> here it is, the busybox forkbomb :P17:18
DocScrutinizer05hmm, nice, but... what it's good for now?17:20
DocScrutinizer05and which 1024 to change?17:20
vi_I like my forkbomb better17:23
DocScrutinizer05sftp finished at du -sh /scratchbox ->6.5GB17:23
keriowtf is /sys/kernel/debug17:24
keriowhat's nodev?17:24
jaskano device nodes allowed17:24
PaliDocScrutinizer05, what do you think? /sbin/shutdown is upstart ELF utility. We can move this program to /sbin/shutdown.real and implement wrapper which call dsme shutdown/reboot function only once. Next time will be called real ulility17:24
keriojaska: nodev on /sys/kernel/debug type debugfs (0)17:24
jaskayou cant make things like tty1 or sda etc there17:24
jaskadebugfs is used for some twiddling of kernel stuff, not sure of the use on n900 myself17:25
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DocScrutinizer05fsckng sftp has a bug17:26
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DocScrutinizer05<tab< filename expansion doesn't work, it's dropping one (next) char17:26
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DocScrutinizer05but kinda true17:39
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders what type of touchpanel digitizer they use on hooker92017:39
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jargon-it's driving me nuts.trying to update the cssu and i can't seem to get passed making a backup. then when i go back to the update,it prompts me to make a backup17:55
tadzikread GENERAL NOTICE :)17:55
tadziktl;dr: update the operator name widget first17:55
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jargon-tadzik: thanks17:57
tadzikyou're welcome17:57
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DocScrutinizer05 [GENERAL NOTICE] if you're using CSSU-T, do NOT use "update all" in HAM, you need to first install/update the opername widget, only *then* go update the rest. Read ff18:04
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* tadzik wonders if the trailing "ff" is related to "ffs"18:05
DocScrutinizer05it's a common (latin?) tla(?)18:05
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DocScrutinizer05f: the one that follows. ff: the following (more than one)18:06
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DocScrutinizer05it's of same class like etc, et al ...18:07
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DocScrutinizer05>>This abbreviation is used in citations to indicate an unspecified number of following pages following, Example: see page 258ff.<<18:10
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keriotadzik: "ffs" is "for fuck's sake"18:17
keriocompletely unrelated to pages18:17
Skryalso fast file system, completely unrelated too18:18
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Palithis should fix reboot requests:
Palidsme will see reboot request and send broadcast signal18:24
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tadzikkerio: I know what it is, I wondered if "ff" is related to it18:50
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: ???19:24
DocScrutinizer05your last 2 posts19:24
Palipatch for that dsme19:24
DocScrutinizer05((<Pali> this should fix reboot requests...))19:24
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Palisee my previous posts in log19:25
DocScrutinizer05I didn't know there's anything wrong with reboot19:25
Paliproblem is that DSME storing state to state file19:25
Paliand if dsme got SIGINT/TERM signal then it does not store state19:25
Paliand then you call reboot then dsme does not handle it and init daemon will kill dsme19:26
Paliwhen you use dsmetool -b or other hildon method for reboot, it tell DSME that system going to shutdown/restart19:27
Palidsme will send broadcast messages to all client to save data and prepair for shutdown/reboot19:27
DocScrutinizer05reboot command is deprecated19:27
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Palireboot/poweroff/halt are still used on unixes19:28
DocScrutinizer05not on fremantle19:28
DocScrutinizer05it's known that reboot does a hard reboot19:30
DocScrutinizer05that's why it's called mini-reboot I guess19:32
DocScrutinizer05err minishutdown19:32
DocScrutinizer05actually, if anything, dsme -b should call minishutdown (after finishing whatever dsme does), not the other way round19:34
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Palidsmetool -b doing "proper" reboot19:42
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Palireboot tell upstart to start killing running daemons (like on desktop)19:43
Palibut dsme badly handle SIGTERM and SIGINT signals19:43
Paliand more application depends on dbus broadcast signal sent by dsme19:44
Palimini-reboot/mini-shutdown is called when reboot application cannot talk to upstart19:44
Paliwe only need to handle situation when somebody call reboot/shutdown to tell this also dsme19:45
Paliand my patch fixing it for reboot19:45
Palireboot calling telinit 6 and here is added line dsmetool -b19:45
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Palidsmetool does not have flag for "shutdown", but we can find dbus menthod which is used by "power off" button19:46
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DocScrutinizer05reboot is deprecated19:57
DocScrutinizer05on fremantle19:57
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Palithis patch should fix it19:57
DocScrutinizer05the hierarchy is dsme > upstart > init19:57
DocScrutinizer05reboot is *meant* to do hard shutdown19:58
kerioDocScrutinizer05: but upstart *is* init!19:58
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DocScrutinizer05kerio: I meant init.d/* scripts19:58
kerioi see19:58
Palidsmetool -b doing this: change dsme state to reboot, send application dbus signal, tell upstart to reboot system19:59
Palireboot doing this: tell upstart to reboot system19:59
kerioPali: is upstart smart enough to ignore the command to reboot while it's already rebooting?20:00
DocScrutinizer05yes, it's one level lower in hierarchy20:00
Palikerio, new upstart20:00
DocScrutinizer05upstart is not aloowed to kill dsme20:00
Paliupstart killing dsme20:00
DocScrutinizer05unless you actually *want* hard shutdown20:00
DocScrutinizer05Pali: yes, and a kill -SIGKILL 1 is even more hard than dsme getting killed by upstart. Yet it's not the recommended way to do things, like using reboot command is not recommended to do polite reboot20:03
Palino, hard shutdown is /etc/init.d/minishutdown20:03
keriowait, i can't "sudo reboot" and have it do a clean reboot?20:03
Paliyou can test my patch20:04
DocScrutinizer05kerio: reboot is deprecated20:04
DocScrutinizer05use dsme -b20:04
kerioDocScrutinizer05: it's fscking **reboot**20:04
keriois shutdown the same thing?20:04
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SkryI find it somewhat sick that you need a patch to make reboot work like it should20:04
DocScrutinizer05it's pretty much same as on any desktop20:04
DocScrutinizer05KDE won't handle nice any init 6 call20:05
DocScrutinizer05or reboot, for that matter20:05
entitledkill, kill 'em all!20:06
DocScrutinizer05it's aways 'highest' system that's supposed to do gentle shutdown/reboot. NOT low level systems like init/upstart telling KDE/dsme/hildon-desktop to fsckng quit now20:06
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kerioDocScrutinizer05: at the very least i expect KDE not to refuse to launch correctly after it's been SIGTERMed/SIGKILLed by init20:08
DocScrutinizer05haha, good luck20:08
DocScrutinizer05that's exactly what will NOT happen, if you for example configured KDE to restore last session20:09
keriowhat will happen?20:09
DocScrutinizer05init sends all processes sigint, then after 10s kills all porcesses hard. Whataver state they reached meanwhile20:10
DocScrutinizer05err sigterm?20:11
DocScrutinizer05depends on your session what KDE got done during that time20:11
DocScrutinizer05it's not meant to be the normal usecase anyway20:11
DocScrutinizer05and you won't see much appreciation for fixing init to wait for KDE to finish20:12
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DocScrutinizer05       halt, reboot, poweroff - stop the system.20:26
DocScrutinizer05       Halt notes that the system is being brought down in the file /var/log/wtmp, and then either tells the kernel to halt, reboot or poweroff the system.20:26
DocScrutinizer05nuttin else, nuttin beyond, no  gentle bells & whistles20:27
DocScrutinizer05the way this got implemented changed slightly with upstart and then again with systemd, the semantics stay the same20:27
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DocScrutinizer05also see man 8 shutdown: >>... All processes are first notified that the system is going down  by  the  signal  SIGTERM.       This gives programs like vi(1) the time to save the file being edited, mail and news processing programs a chance to exit cleanly, etc. ...<< NB there's NO feedback about any of those programs actually finished their thing to die. There's no (official) way to stop shutdown from killing all processes hard after 520:35
DocScrutinizer05or 10 seconds, or actually just shut down telinit20:35
DocScrutinizer05that's why KDE calls shutdown, not shutdown quits KDE, if you're trying to use recommended way to shutdown system. Same for fremantle and dsme/hildon/whatever20:37
DocScrutinizer05dsme invokes lower level where initctl and reboot live, NOT reboot tells dsme and waits for it to finish20:38
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DocScrutinizer05and hildon-home/whatever GUI in turn invokes dsme -b (or similar high level function) when you select "power down" or "reboot" on desktop in menu22:34
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aklsHello! I have exactly the same problem:
aklsbut there's no fix...22:35
aklsis there a way to see if a wlan chip is broken or something else is causing it?22:36
aklsAs it is stated in the thread22:36
aklsit's a brand new phone22:36
aklsI bought it from ebay so sending it back may cost a lot, so I'm looking for a way to fix it22:36
kerioakls: ouch :c22:38
keriodoes dmesg say something?22:38
aklsit says a lot22:39
aklswhat should I look for?22:39
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keriothe very end22:39
kerioanything related to wlan22:39
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aklsthe worst part is that I got two phones22:40
aklsanother one is working :(22:40
DocScrutinizer05make sure you did a _successful_ _full_ reflash, and maybe don't use ifconfig to play with wlan, rather use settings->internet-connections22:40
dreamerh, wrong discussion :P22:41
aklshmm, no, nothing in dmesg22:41
dreamerignore everything I said in the last few lines ^_^22:41
aklsDocScrutinizer05, there's nothing in these settings22:42
aklsnothing useful at leas22:42
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aklsbluetooth is not working as well22:42
aklsabout reflashing... I will reflash as soon as I get another battery or charger, because my charger stopped working somehow22:43
aklsand it doesn't want to charge from usb22:43
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aklsso, is there any way to confirm that my wireless chip is broken?22:44
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kerioakls: was it a used n900?23:00
kerioit's a lot more likely that your usb port is busted23:00
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DocScrutinizer51or system general problem (ram, NAND, fs corruption, swap missing...)23:04
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DocScrutinizer51akls: you should do a full reflash (vanilla and combined), post the protocol of this to pastebin and link here for checking23:06
aklskerio, no, it was a new telephone23:06
aklsDocScrutinizer05, did a full reflash, nothing23:06
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aklsprotocol.. what's a protocol?23:06
DocScrutinizer51then boot up device and pastebin output of dmesg23:07
DocScrutinizer51and linl here23:07
aklsthats a hard task to do without the internet23:07
DocScrutinizer51the complete display on your terminal screen23:08
keriohe might have a point23:08
PaliDocScrutinizer51, I see that BME setting charge current sense voltage to 550mV, but shadowjk script 950mV23:08
Paliit is safe?23:08
Paliand BME set termination current sense voltage to 100mV and 150mV23:08
DocScrutinizer51sorry, can't check right now23:09
PaliDocScrutinizer51, ok write later23:09
nox-akls, copy to microsd card?23:09
DocScrutinizer51I don't know about mV for current23:09
PaliDocScrutinizer51, only these 2 differences are in bme and script23:10
DocScrutinizer51there's no such thing23:10
Palinow bq2415x_charger.ko using same values as charge21.sh23:10
DocScrutinizer51you probalygot confused about the unit uVblabla for termination and charge current23:11
Palihere is small shell script which write bq2415x chip info:
Palicompatible with and without bq2415x kernel driver23:12
DocScrutinizer51see footnote 1 and 2 in datasheet23:12
DocScrutinizer51err sorry thats bq2720023:12
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aklshow to cd to ".documents" folder?23:24
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aklsor any other folder that is visible from "Mass Storage" mode23:27
aklswithout sd card23:27
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nox-that should be in ~/MyDocs23:28
aklsDocScrutinizer05, kerio
aklsanything else?23:34
keriohm, the CMT messages don't sound healthy23:35
aklskerio, and what does it mean?23:36
kerioakls: does the phone work?23:36
Pali"* CMT rst line change detected (0)"23:36
aklskerio, yes, as I stated23:36
aklseverything works except for the wireless23:36
aklsand probably bluetooth, but I'm not sure23:36
Pali"misc iphb: Module registered in 2.6.28-omap1, built Oct 28 2009 15:33:55"23:36
Paliseems like PR1.023:37
aklsPali, yep, that's the oldest one.23:37
aklsI got this phone today, wifi was not working23:37
aklsthen I updated to the latest 1.323:37
aklsstill nothing23:37
aklsnow I reflashed it to the oldest one23:37
aklsand it doesn't work..23:37
aklsanything else I can do?23:38
freemangordonakls: flash the latest FW23:38
freemangordonfor your region23:38
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aklsfor Global, right? :D23:38
freemangordonakls: NFC, you should know :P23:39
aklswell, ok, I'll flash it now23:40
aklsbut still, how can I verify that wifi is totally broken?23:40
aklsifconfig wlan0 shows a mac address but nothing else23:40
Pali[   80.588653] wl1251: loaded23:40
Pali[   80.589416] wl1251: initialized23:40
Palino more about wl125123:40
freemangordonakls: what happens if you try to connect to wifi network?23:41
aklsfreemangordon, oh23:41
freemangordon(i am late to the party)23:41
akls<akls> Hello! I have exactly the same problem:
akls<akls> but there's no fix...23:41
Pali$ iwlist scan23:41
aklsthat guy has 100% same problem23:41
aklsI don't think that I have wireless-tools installed...23:41
freemangordonakls: yeah, I see23:42
aklsbut as stated in the forum thread using "ifconfig wlan0 up" locks and leads to other problems like file manager not working23:42
freemangordonakls: anyway, Pali is more experienced than me re wifi23:43
Palithat problem from TMO post is in hw23:44
freemangordonPali: yeah, seems so23:44
keriowhy does enigma believe it's ok to take 3mb in the rootfs for a fucking game?23:44
Paliifconfig wlan0 up should not freeze system23:44
aklsPali, so it's broken and I can throw it away?23:44
freemangordonakls: connect external wifi :P23:45
freemangordonusb dongle that is23:45
Paliyou can try to reflash pr1.3 + vanilla emmc image23:45
aklsPali, that's what I had23:45
aklssome time ago23:45
freemangordonPali: though I wonder why the phone still works23:45
aklsfreemangordon, yep, it's working just fine for the exception of file manager23:46
aklsand root console23:46
aklsoh, and default console is not working as well..23:46
freemangordonakls: something is wrong there, you should not be able to use phone if you have downgraded from pr1323:46
Paliwhy not?23:46
aklsfreemangordon, why?23:46
freemangordonsomething with CMT23:46
aklsI don't know which firmware I had by default23:47
Palicomplete flash also flash cmt firmware23:47
aklsbut I upgraded it to 1.323:47
freemangordonPali: there is some remnants IIRC23:47
aklsand them completely reflashed to the oldest one hoping that something is going to change23:47
PaliI'm going offline23:47
freemangordonPali: CAL, CMT FW or something which cannot be downgraded23:48
aklsalright, so I'll contact a guy who sold this one to me.23:48
aklsthank you very much for your help23:48
freemangordonakls: try to flash pr13 first23:48
Palifreemangordon, all bme packages are pushed to gitorious project23:48
Palionly libbmeipc is not fully yet23:48
PaliI will done it later23:48
freemangordonPali: gret, unfortunately I am in process of doing a new -thumb update23:48
aklsfreemangordon, alright. But I'll go offline. If it will work - then I'll come back and tell you how happy I am23:48
aklsbut I'm pretty sure that it's not going to happen ;)23:49
freemangordonwon't have time in couple of days :(23:49
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vi__how do i kill browserd?23:51
freemangordonwith a gun?23:51
vi__is it dsme that keeps resurrecting it?23:51
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freemangordonvi__: dsme -k or something23:51
freemangordonor dsmetool -k23:51
* vi__ shoots n900, solves all his problems with 1 bullet.23:51
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freemangordonvi__: a better idea: break it using your n950 as a hammer :P23:52
DocScrutinizer51downgrading on cmt doesn't usually work!23:54
DocScrutinizer51so ffs flash PR1.3 combined  and  latest(!) vanilla23:54
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: yes, that is why I wonder what did he upgrade23:55
DocScrutinizer51sorry dude, support for PR1.0 discontinued23:55
freemangordonDocScrutinizer51: he is not here :D23:55
freemangordonanyway, I am off23:55
DocScrutinizer51night fmg23:55
vi__freemangordon: !23:56
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kerionooo :(23:59

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