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| vi__ | zeq: ping | 00:52 |
|---|---|---|
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| DocScrutinizer05 | povbot_: seen infobot | 01:00 |
| povbot_ | DocScrutinizer05: infobot was last seen in #maemo 4 hours, 48 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <infobot> zeq meant: DocScrutinizer05: maemo-pan doesn't appear to have been updated since OS2008, so I guess I'll look into porting it after reading the tmo topic you also linked if that doesn't point me to something working properly on maemo5 (icd2 plugin; like usb networki... | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | povbot_: seen ChanServ | 01:00 |
| povbot_ | DocScrutinizer05: I have not seen ChanServ. | 01:00 |
| nox- | nickserv is back at least | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SIC! | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ChanServ: help | 01:01 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer05 | 01:01 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least that works | 01:01 |
| nox- | heh | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heh what? | 01:02 |
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| *** DocScrutinizer05 sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer05 | 01:02 | |
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| nox- | povbot didnt see chanserv altho its here... | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freenode in trouble | 01:03 |
| nox- | yeah there was a message earlier, like some $important box had a powerfailure and the ups was awol... | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot got busted during the process | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I hate that | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually freenode crew should offer an account on some freenode server for infobot | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | she's as much services as nickserv ever gets | 01:06 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 heads over to other chan to check what's infobot status | 01:07 | |
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| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: and you keeping op coz of services? | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ZogG_laptop: WUT? plz r-prshe | 01:18 |
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| ZogG_laptop | doesn't matter, read the log. | 01:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | was taking about freenode services down | 01:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | too complicated | 01:20 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, Hostmode for N950/N9 died? | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I stopped cardiopulmonary support | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | I see. Why so, was it een more complicated than in Maemo 5? :) | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I dispise HARM and I find no cooperate support for hostmode on that unbearable OS | 02:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, aegis spoiled the game pretty much | 02:29 |
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| nox- | i just hope jolla wont use it... | 02:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm willing to fight kernel. I'm however *NOT* willing to fight bullshoit that stps me from tweaking kernel | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, absolutely understandable | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp for no good reason at all | 02:30 |
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| Estel_ | and You know what? even from user perspective, it's same feeling (fighting Os and it's additions) | 02:30 |
| Estel_ | of course support for N950 would be great, but I feel Your pain | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I know, I gave up when I realized it's not just me | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | tried normal linux way of modifying some files. Once. | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, BTw, is it about aegis as in Harmattan, or ARm TrustMyAssComputing as whole? | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | i.e Mer under N950/N9 - maybe it would be more bearable for hostmode? | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | Nemo is loosing dumb'icity and becoming better and better every day. sure, aegis kills much fun of using device with other stack (closed CAL etc), but how much it is related to hostmode too? | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | BTW, someone somewhere is asking why "people who worked on hostmode for harm abandoned it". Won't You mind, if I quote You from IRC here, using literal quotation? | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | I feel it's great sumamry of why ;) | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | s/sumamry/summary/ | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: for all I heard, once mer would be a reality, it might host h-e-n without problems | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | nice to hear, but isn't it reality. now? | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | one that is jsut expanding? | 02:39 |
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| Estel_ | DocScrutinizer05, ^^^ | 02:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, i'm not following, supporting and pushing more than 2...3 distros. Sorry too few hours in a day, and nobody from mer/nemo approached me about it | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems hostmode has at least as low priority to those projects as has bme-replacement | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and, I knowit's silly, I got a lil bitter and bored over the years | 02:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | so if they think they can get hostmode from plain upstream (a rather sane assumption, since sane hw on N9(50)), it's fine with me. If they fail, they have to think about incentive as I'm not interested in HARM, nor in hw-kbd-less devices at large | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my N9(xx) devices came to me as lead Nokians felt I should receive an sample, no matter what I do with it | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I feel no obligation to fulfill any contract | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and as things are right now, HARM is extremely unpleasant and annoying to me, whenever I deal with it | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mer/nemo has to talk me in yet | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I git no debt to bring | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | got* | 03:00 |
| pronto | FYI: blackhat 2012 usa videos: http://dc.pronto185.com/blackhat/ | 03:03 |
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| ShadowJK | biggest problem with infobot is that it's poorly written perl mess | 03:26 |
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| ShadowJK | and it was only written for "sane" irc networks, and with a certain netiquette in mind. Apart from just plain bad network code, freenode's funny antics often get interpreted as "I'm banned", and it doesn't try to engage in any ban evasion | 03:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | aah perl, yes | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | friggin biggest problem though is that I got no direct account to retsart it when it's offline | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Tim anyway uttered "I wish somebody would help on improving the scheduler" | 03:37 |
| robbiethe1st | Set it to restart by itself! | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not that *I* had any idea what the bot scheduler does, or how all that magic works | 03:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | robbiethe1st: I suggested that constantly since 18 months | 03:38 |
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| robbiethe1st | heck, I did that in my PHP bot, so... | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I also suggested Tim should set up a IRC script, linux account with login: "killall infobot", or even mail filter to do the same - alas to no success so far | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so no way I can do anything when bot is completely offline, other than mail Tim and ask for "/etc/init.d/infobot force-reload" | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this might take from 30 min to 4 days for any response | 03:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway it seems due once more to send such mail | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sometimes I doubt Tim understands what importance and relevance "his" bot has acquired meanwhile | 03:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think there are around 5k unique users in ~150 chan that rely on the factoid database | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even if only eventually and occasionaly | 03:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could any of you replace ~flashing with the proper URL in 10 seconds? | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or quote ~flatbatrecover ? | 03:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I nagged freenode staff about it, but they are still reluctant to appreciate value of the bot, and act accordingly (i.e. offer "official" hosting in services domain) | 03:48 |
| * ShadowJK had a script that ran in a loop in screen | 03:52 | |
| ShadowJK | then you have script which runs on another box, that sshs in and checks for that screen session periodically | 03:56 |
| ShadowJK | as bonus, on first box the script checking infobox sshs to second box to check for screen session too :P | 03:57 |
| ShadowJK | As long as both machines don't reboot simultaneously, they'll poke eachother back to life | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | (ghetto way of doing autostart when you dont have root access) | 03:58 |
| jacekowski | @reboot in cron | 04:00 |
| jacekowski | that's the right way of doing it | 04:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sure thing, but I'd already be happy with Tim creating an account for me on his infobot box, with login shell "/etc/init.d/infobot restart" | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I could do sam ething any time by sending ~die, but obviously only if friggin bot is logged in | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | under any of its 4 personalities at least | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and if bot refuses to connect to freenode at all (due to whatever fsckup), the only path to recover is to mail/ping/pester Tim to do "/etc/init.d/infobot restart" manually | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw: | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-23 03:16:08] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on apt (account apt): | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [2012-08-23 03:16:08] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Aug 16 21:01:06 1999 (13 years, 1 week, 3 days, 04:15:02 ago) | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | [ | 04:16 |
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| brzys | och my god, i slept on keyboard few sec ago... time to go sleep ;D | 04:32 |
| brzys | nite nite guyz | 04:34 |
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| Estel_ | good night! | 04:37 |
| Estel_ | everybody | 04:37 |
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| whsailing | hi,everybody,i got a problem. when i install python2.5-qt4,the terminal return the follow message: | 04:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yay, down to 266, INCL chanServ | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (btw that terminal msg is a tad terse ;-D) | 05:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | whsailing: seems your connectivity got flawed and thus some of your posts missing? see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-08-23.log.html#t2012-08-23T04:42:29 | 05:06 |
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| BCMM | is there anything like xclip available on maemo, without going the whole easy debian route? | 10:44 |
| BCMM | i just want to send something to the clipboard over ssh | 10:45 |
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| Lava_Croft | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85200 | 12:08 |
| Lava_Croft | aw bcmm left | 12:08 |
| Lava_Croft | combined with http://whereswalden.com/2009/10/23/pbcopy-and-pbpaste-for-linux/ | 12:08 |
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| zeq1 | Having another N900 has given me a really crazy idea: Port LinuxPMI to ARM... :P | 12:13 |
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| zeq1 | for those who don't know LinuxPMI is the successor to OpenMosix. | 12:32 |
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| fomg-optimize | Issue with linuxpmi is that it is outdated | 13:00 |
| fomg-optimize | Mosix is actually up to date but sadly closed source | 13:00 |
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| fomg-optimize | (by outdated i mean not supporting any recent kernels) | 13:01 |
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| fomg-optimize | When I get the time for it I hope to get moisx up and running on a bunch of old half broken laptops i have here :) | 13:01 |
| zeq1 | fomg-optimize: we don't have a recent kernel ;) | 13:03 |
| fomg-optimize | Well true hehe | 13:04 |
| fomg-optimize | SIngle system image is just such an awesome way to have a cluster none the less :). So creds for taking interest :) | 13:05 |
| zeq1 | actually what I was thinking after discussing it on #linuxpmi was re-using some of the code here: https://github.com/virtualopensystems/linux-kvm-arm/commits/beagleboard-2.6.29-kvm to provide the infrastructure for the ARM port | 13:05 |
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| fomg-optimize | Aah, interesting! | 13:05 |
| fomg-optimize | misox can run as a virtual machine by the way | 13:06 |
| fomg-optimize | *mosix | 13:06 |
| fomg-optimize | Not efficient at all but still :) | 13:06 |
| fomg-optimize | Seems you have thought about it properly though :) | 13:08 |
| zeq1 | came to me in a dream ;) | 13:08 |
| zeq1 | spurred on by receiving my devel device :P | 13:09 |
| zeq1 | I should get back to fennec first though ... | 13:09 |
| fomg-optimize | I have consideret quite a few times to just happen to plug in a few hundred usb stick on all of the universities computers running a single system image solution as a protest to us running windows on all of them, | 13:10 |
| fomg-optimize | Hopefully finding a research project that needs to work through a lot of data | 13:10 |
| fomg-optimize | To prove a pint | 13:10 |
| fomg-optimize | *point | 13:10 |
| fomg-optimize | And of course run that | 13:11 |
| fomg-optimize | To show that we have a super computer on campus not being used | 13:11 |
| fomg-optimize | Of course cerating an event of it all | 13:11 |
| fomg-optimize | *creating | 13:11 |
| zeq1 | It always has struck me as an awful waste | 13:12 |
| fomg-optimize | Very much, the bigger the network, the more waste, unless they are running thin clients, but that is not a given | 13:13 |
| fomg-optimize | Especially schools/unis are slow to adopt thin clients | 13:14 |
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| jon_y | fomg-optimize: IT is a heavy weight, it's not going to budge | 13:15 |
| jon_y | conservatively MS :) | 13:15 |
| jon_y | and probably understaffed | 13:15 |
| jon_y | they're not going to risk their hide to hippies :) | 13:15 |
| fomg-optimize | Yeah, sigh | 13:16 |
| jon_y | nobody gets fired for buying IBM/MS/whatever Enterprise-ish | 13:16 |
| fomg-optimize | Especially since every single computer club on every single campus in the world pretty much all run *nix | 13:16 |
| fomg-optimize | They have free wisdom and knowdledge there not being used as free slavery | 13:16 |
| jon_y | I had a hard time convincing the IT people that SSH isn't a hacking software | 13:17 |
| jon_y | I gave up and put my server on tcp 443 | 13:17 |
| jon_y | also, they think Cygwin is some sort of Virtualization software, which policy disallows | 13:17 |
| fomg-optimize | Yeah oh, by the way | 13:18 |
| fomg-optimize | WE have on campus IT support free for all | 13:18 |
| fomg-optimize | That is paid by the Uni | 13:18 |
| zeq1 | clueless | 13:18 |
| fomg-optimize | Let me just say quite a lot of the time is being spent on fixing malware/adware | 13:18 |
| jon_y | do they need you to install crapware on your machine to use the campus network? | 13:18 |
| fomg-optimize | Of course | 13:18 |
| jon_y | lol | 13:19 |
| fomg-optimize | THough i do believe the printing solution is the only thing needed as such now | 13:19 |
| zeq1 | People have come to accept MS (and now Apple) as the way IT should be. Anything else is just wrong. | 13:19 |
| fomg-optimize | Well, at least there is one new player | 13:20 |
| jon_y | also, the crapware only supports Windows | 13:20 |
| jon_y | Macs and Linux is out | 13:20 |
| fomg-optimize | Could possibly, maybe in the future make people open to more change | 13:20 |
| fomg-optimize | Ok, nvm then ;) | 13:20 |
| jon_y | there was that virus rampage a few years ago | 13:21 |
| zeq1 | fomg-optimize: no new players in established markets. It seems in recent years the effort has been for companies to withdraw from markets pre-emptively. | 13:21 |
| jon_y | I can't blame them for n00b users overrunning everything | 13:21 |
| jon_y | maybe they could isolate each node to disallow peer communication | 13:21 |
| jon_y | it probably breaks some warcraft3 lan party or something | 13:22 |
| fomg-optimize | I thought about joing the customer support team to get some extra cash, then I realized that supporting windows would decrease my life span, thus costing me more in the end. I would much rather considering being a lab rat | 13:22 |
| jon_y | heh, customer support is hated by customers, vice versa is also true | 13:22 |
| zeq1 | the mobile space was still relatively immature until Apple and Android divided it up, mature established markets are almost impossible to break without disruptive technology emerging | 13:23 |
| jon_y | Nokia had it's chance but blew it | 13:23 |
| fomg-optimize | Not nokia, a certain ceo rather perhaps? | 13:23 |
| jon_y | yeah, that guy | 13:23 |
| fomg-optimize | Not to be mentioned by name | 13:23 |
| zeq1 | it had disruptive tech, but lost its nerve | 13:23 |
| fomg-optimize | I'd say that the mobile space still is rather iamture | 13:24 |
| fomg-optimize | But openings for new tech is being closed by the day | 13:24 |
| zeq1 | It becomes increasingly difficult for established players to dare rock the boat | 13:25 |
| fomg-optimize | I really wonder though, is there actually any chance for maemo/meego/tizen/mer any more to actually take any market share? | 13:25 |
| zeq1 | disruption can aversely affect their revenue streams | 13:26 |
| fomg-optimize | No matter how good it would be | 13:26 |
| zeq1 | not directly IMO | 13:26 |
| zeq1 | *we* have to be more subversive | 13:26 |
| fomg-optimize | Please explain? | 13:26 |
| zeq1 | The players in the established mobile space will leave gaps which can be filled by truly innovative ideas and implementations that can't be achieved commercially by the big players (due to revenue risk) | 13:28 |
| fomg-optimize | Ah, got it | 13:29 |
| zeq1 | it's possible to carve out new applications of technology that the market doesn't provide for currently | 13:29 |
| fomg-optimize | Like the n770 / n800 could have been if it had phone features built in | 13:30 |
| fomg-optimize | THat was the only thing I though about while using it | 13:30 |
| zeq1 | yes | 13:30 |
| zeq1 | but that's now history of course | 13:31 |
| fomg-optimize | Yes indeed | 13:31 |
| zeq1 | maybe a future prospect is mobile mesh networking ? | 13:31 |
| zeq1 | by-pass the carriers completely | 13:31 |
| fomg-optimize | Do you have insight as to why nokie did not combine it with phone feature? | 13:31 |
| fomg-optimize | It seemed so obvious? | 13:32 |
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| zeq1 | ^ as I mentioned above, disruption of their existing revenue stream | 13:32 |
| zeq1 | it was a different part of the company | 13:32 |
| fomg-optimize | Oh, not enough communcation inter department? | 13:32 |
| fomg-optimize | Or competition? | 13:33 |
| zeq1 | IMO | 13:33 |
| fomg-optimize | Meh networking is an interesting approach but then you would have to have someone responsible for getting systematic reception solution, just look at how much trouble all of the free wifi / internet solutions have expanding | 13:34 |
| zeq1 | It was probably seen a quite a coup to the Maemo team to get a cell modem for the N900 | 13:34 |
| zeq1 | fomg-optimize: it would have to be community driven (outside the hackerdom) | 13:35 |
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| fomg-optimize | People consider the hassle of using a mesh network be too high compared to the cost of operators. But do note I am thinking industrialized countries here, not developing ones in which people have a much tighter budget | 13:36 |
| zeq1 | exactly | 13:36 |
| zeq1 | it just needs to be made to "just work" | 13:36 |
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| fomg-optimize | Oh that reminds me of a similar problem a certain free operating system supposedly has ;) | 13:37 |
| fomg-optimize | And which is now gaining market share in that very same market | 13:38 |
| zeq1 | in fairness, in the early days it DID have that problem | 13:38 |
| fomg-optimize | Oh, it VERY MUCH did | 13:38 |
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| fomg-optimize | If I dont recall wrong I believe some country is building their own phone network based on wifi | 13:39 |
| zeq1 | mesh? | 13:39 |
| fomg-optimize | South america perhaps | 13:40 |
| zeq1 | could be | 13:40 |
| fomg-optimize | Let me try to find it | 13:40 |
| zeq1 | it just needs to be proven viable | 13:40 |
| fomg-optimize | ANyways it is due to being much lower licensing cost and more freeom | 13:40 |
| fomg-optimize | And very mountainy so lots of free line of sight from the towers | 13:40 |
| zeq1 | if there's available a cheap commodity router running an OpenWRT variant preconfigured for mesh wifi and voip routing, and handsets preconfigured to integrate with it... | 13:42 |
| zeq1 | it would be interesting | 13:42 |
| zeq1 | perhaps even more-so if some robust MOSIX-style clustering could give each device supercomputer like capabilities ;) | 13:43 |
| mavhc | who do you contact when it doesn't work? | 13:43 |
| zeq1 | the users would have to contact the local deployer | 13:44 |
| zeq1 | how's it any different to any other village service | 13:44 |
| zeq1 | ? | 13:44 |
| zeq1 | the point is decentralisation and an open platform which doesn't limit what the users can do with it | 13:46 |
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| zeq1 | this is mostly just a thought experiment though, right? :) | 13:46 |
| zeq1 | personally, I think the technology exists to implement it | 13:47 |
| fomg-optimize | The only issue for mobile would be battery drain | 13:47 |
| fomg-optimize | But the technology very much exists | 13:48 |
| fomg-optimize | Just look at how well these gaming through internet work | 13:48 |
| fomg-optimize | I cannot remember the service name | 13:48 |
| fomg-optimize | Cloud gaming | 13:49 |
| fomg-optimize | Is the technical term | 13:49 |
| zeq1 | ok | 13:49 |
| zeq1 | similar concept | 13:49 |
| fomg-optimize | yes, but with server client roles solid | 13:49 |
| fomg-optimize | But still, the infrastructure is good enough | 13:49 |
| fomg-optimize | So as long as there is good enough software it is perfectly possible | 13:50 |
| zeq1 | in principle it could be done by a start-up | 13:50 |
| zeq1 | it's just likely to receive a lot of *political* pressure from vested interests | 13:51 |
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| zeq1 | perhaps regulatory difficulties in some places, or special discounts from carriers in targeted markets | 13:52 |
| fomg-optimize | The whole of singapore has free 1mbit wifi | 13:52 |
| fomg-optimize | Now consider how many buildings it has o penetrate | 13:53 |
| fomg-optimize | It would be even easier in open landscapes | 13:53 |
| zeq1 | So that's a city-state scale example | 13:53 |
| fomg-optimize | Yep | 13:54 |
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| fomg-optimize | Macedonia has 95% of population wireless mesh network | 13:58 |
| fomg-optimize | Hard to find info | 13:58 |
| fomg-optimize | The issue still remains though | 14:00 |
| fomg-optimize | Power usage | 14:00 |
| fomg-optimize | Some proper development would have to be done in low power mesh hardware solutions for phones? | 14:01 |
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| zeq1 | don't we have the ideal platform for that? | 14:09 |
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| fomg-optimize | Well true, It's just that I do not know what is already out there | 14:14 |
| fomg-optimize | Hardware wis | 14:14 |
| fomg-optimize | e | 14:14 |
| fomg-optimize | When i run my phone as a hotspot sharing my internet with people my batter drain goes crazy | 14:15 |
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| fomg-optimize | And I often do this, I have unlimited data on my service so as soon as I travel I share my internet for free to everyone unencrypted | 14:15 |
| fomg-optimize | I seem to be very popular on airports :) | 14:16 |
| zeq1 | the 3G modem draws lots of current | 14:16 |
| fomg-optimize | Oh god | 14:19 |
| fomg-optimize | Facepalm | 14:19 |
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| fomg-optimize | Seriously why di I not think of that, I should have tested laptop-phone power usage | 14:19 |
| fomg-optimize | I have also tested running wifi on but with no users | 14:20 |
| fomg-optimize | By checking data transfer | 14:20 |
| zeq1 | wifi should be as bad | 14:20 |
| fomg-optimize | Wifi circuits drain a lot on idle as well | 14:20 |
| zeq1 | shouldn't* | 14:21 |
| fomg-optimize | It pretty much is actually | 14:21 |
| fomg-optimize | If i run my phone on wifi from home the battery is drained just as much as if I were using 3g only | 14:21 |
| zeq1 | depends on signal strength | 14:21 |
| fomg-optimize | It might very well be bad wifi implementation on the phone | 14:21 |
| fomg-optimize | But reviews have not complained | 14:21 |
| fomg-optimize | SO i just figure it is normal | 14:21 |
| zeq1 | could be you have a noisy wifi env? | 14:22 |
| zeq1 | lots of other networks? | 14:22 |
| fomg-optimize | Well not as bad as some people are | 14:22 |
| fomg-optimize | Residential villa area | 14:22 |
| fomg-optimize | Not apartment complex | 14:22 |
| fomg-optimize | So just a few | 14:22 |
| fomg-optimize | Much worse in the student complex i live in during winter | 14:23 |
| zeq1 | Battery seems to last well with wifi only here | 14:23 |
| fomg-optimize | Ah, might be the hardware implementation then | 14:23 |
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| fomg-optimize | I'm just glad if it isnt as bad on other phones | 14:23 |
| zeq1 | N900 here | 14:23 |
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| fomg-optimize | I would love to run my wifi hotspot 24/7 but it is impossible even with a huge expanded battery on xperia x10 | 14:24 |
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| fomg-optimize | I remember the n800 wifi being exemplary | 14:24 |
| fomg-optimize | At least in reception | 14:25 |
| zeq1 | you could try limiting the wifi speed and only using 2G | 14:25 |
| fomg-optimize | My bandwidth on the service is limited to 1mbit | 14:25 |
| zeq1 | hardly worth 3G then :P | 14:25 |
| fomg-optimize | Haha | 14:25 |
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| fomg-optimize | No, trust me Edge vs hsdpa | 14:26 |
| fomg-optimize | Dear god what a difference | 14:26 |
| zeq1 | better latency on 3G | 14:26 |
| fomg-optimize | I shut off 2g because of how god awful the speeds are | 14:26 |
| fomg-optimize | Yes, noticable so even web surfing | 14:26 |
| fomg-optimize | But then perhaps it is the wifi chip in xperia x10 that suck to a great extent | 14:26 |
| zeq1 | it does consume much more power though | 14:26 |
| fomg-optimize | Rather than wifi it self | 14:27 |
| fomg-optimize | *in | 14:27 |
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| zeq1 | maybe it doesn't do wifi power management? | 14:27 |
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| fomg-optimize | But still, with a mesh network, there would have to be a lot of relaying | 14:27 |
| fomg-optimize | that would consume much more power | 14:27 |
| zeq1 | yeah, maybe the devices would need to be "docked" quite often | 14:28 |
| zeq1 | like with a cordless landline | 14:28 |
| fomg-optimize | But I am certain if the interest rises, there will be great technical leaps none the less | 14:28 |
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| fomg-optimize | People are already shutting of wifi to save power | 14:28 |
| fomg-optimize | Bluetooth even | 14:29 |
| fomg-optimize | So there is a demand for lower power useage | 14:29 |
| zeq1 | of course | 14:29 |
| fomg-optimize | So, it might be that the technology will come by itself | 14:29 |
| fomg-optimize | All that has to be ready are standards to make use of it when it arrives | 14:29 |
| fomg-optimize | there are already 70 different ad hoc standards competing | 14:30 |
| fomg-optimize | That number has to decrease or it will be impossible | 14:30 |
| zeq1 | I remember reading about directional semiconductor RF transmitters a few years back | 14:30 |
| zeq1 | I wonder what happened with that? | 14:30 |
| fomg-optimize | Truth be told, I have no idea what so ever :) | 14:31 |
| zeq1 | What I read was the device would transmit directional narrow beam radio signals instead of broadcast, meaning it used far less power. | 14:32 |
| zeq1 | obviously it needed to know where the target device is relative to its orientation | 14:33 |
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| fomg-optimize | Ah, i've thought about how that ought to be a much better soltuion | 14:36 |
| fomg-optimize | My 24dbi 2.4ghz antenna is somewhat cumbersome to attach to my phone | 14:36 |
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| zeq1 | some interesting papers here: http://www.trondeau.com/grc2012-abstracts/ | 14:39 |
| zeq1 | Sounds interesting: "GNU-radio/USRP-based software-defined radio testbed for distributed beamforming" | 14:39 |
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| zeq1 | just conference abstracts so not so many details, I'm sure three's more following the links though. | 14:41 |
| zeq1 | s/three/there/ | 14:42 |
| zeq1 | still no infobot :( | 14:43 |
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| fomg-optimize | Ah, truth be told though, that is way beyond my knowledge level :) | 14:46 |
| fomg-optimize | But it is all really interesting | 14:46 |
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| jon_y | fomg-optimize: forget about proper battery life if you use software radio | 14:47 |
| jon_y | those things are tuned for wideband | 14:47 |
| jon_y | unlike normal cellphones that are tuned to a select few frequencies | 14:48 |
| fomg-optimize | Yeah, but that was probably not the point, rather that it is possible to do | 14:50 |
| fomg-optimize | I'm just guessing here :) | 14:50 |
| fomg-optimize | zeql posted the papers | 14:50 |
| zeq1 | I couldn't find anything referring directly to what I mentioned, but I thought there were some interesting projects there. | 14:52 |
| zeq1 | I thought the beamforming could be useful for interconnecting separate mesh networks perhaps? | 14:53 |
| zeq1 | as we were talking about earlier ^ | 14:53 |
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| jon_y | zeq1: mesh network == high latency, think tor :) | 14:56 |
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| fomg-optimize | Dat be true, but it is still really cool to have your own global network to use when internet gets too closed down due to all copyright laws ;) | 14:59 |
| fomg-optimize | And especially a mobile one to say bye bye to operators | 15:00 |
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| jon_y | not sure how routing will work | 15:06 |
| jon_y | or how much battery life will be affected | 15:06 |
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| ShadowJK | it's expensive to set up cell towers :P | 15:53 |
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| jaska | deploy towers with mirv misiles | 15:54 |
| ShadowJK | the thing about mesh networks is that each additional user roughly halves bandwidth ;p | 15:56 |
| ShadowJK | There's only so many times you can do that before not even irc works :) | 15:56 |
| jon_y | ShadowJK: don't forget 2 hour battery life :) | 15:56 |
| jon_y | and random lags and packet loss | 15:57 |
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| teotwaki | ShadowJK: that's only the case if your routing tables are very inefficient. | 16:00 |
| teotwaki | ShadowJK: if you accept the fact that sometimes (just like TCP does), a connection may not reach its destination, and only *then* start looking for a new route, then you shouldn't have bandwidth problems. | 16:00 |
| * ShadowJK just tested long term idle with charge*.sh and wifi running, projected idle time 73 hours with 1320mAh battery | 16:01 | |
| ShadowJK | also cellular modem active in standby on 3g | 16:01 |
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| jon_y | I bet it'll be doing more than idling when routing packets from somewhere | 16:03 |
| ShadowJK | yeah I was just responding to the "wifi eats as much as 3g" from earlier | 16:03 |
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| ShadowJK | and as I accidentally left spare N900 on wifi+3g last night i checked what powerdrain over 16 hours had been | 16:04 |
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| teotwaki | also, the N900 is what, 3 years old now? 4? | 16:06 |
| teotwaki | Hardly the kind of hardware you should be using for these kind of benchmarks. | 16:06 |
| ShadowJK | This is using WRT54GL with tomato firmware. with stock firmware power consumption on n800,n810 and n900 was much much much bigger | 16:06 |
| ShadowJK | It's the newest Maemo phone :P | 16:07 |
| jon_y | how does Andy compare? :) | 16:08 |
| jon_y | hmm, what do I call the iphone... | 16:08 |
| ShadowJK | I can't convince my tablet to idle sufficiently. :P | 16:09 |
| jon_y | yes, Andy and Steve | 16:09 |
| ShadowJK | and havent found any usable way of measuring power consumption reliably | 16:09 |
| ShadowJK | but the percentages drop off faster | 16:09 |
| jon_y | still not sure if there is an android phone that comes close to the n900 in capability | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | not that that's a useful measure. | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | There are little things that annoy on andy. Like opening links in background tab (yay for that feature!), only to discover that when switching to tabs you still have to wait for the page to load, which kinda defeats the point | 16:11 |
| ShadowJK | Oh and also trying to listen to netradio, and it stops if you switch to another app or if screen dims :P | 16:13 |
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| Sicelo | ~israel | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | hmm | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | ~dhl | 16:25 |
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| Sicelo | ~israel-scuks | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | ~israelsuckks | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | ~israelsucks | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | ~israel-sucks | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | ok | 16:25 |
| Sicelo | sorry for spam | 16:25 |
| ShadowJK | ... | 16:26 |
| Sicelo | used to be there .. something to do with MAG & N950 iinm | 16:26 |
| Sicelo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-05-20.log.html#t2012-05-20T00:14:17 | 16:27 |
| jon_y | ShadowJK: what | 16:28 |
| jon_y | when you switch apps? | 16:28 |
| jon_y | no daemonize to taskbar option? | 16:28 |
| ShadowJK | no? | 16:29 |
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| jon_y | ShadowJK: the net radio thing | 16:30 |
| jon_y | it hass to be in your face foreground? | 16:30 |
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| jon_y | s/hass/has/ | 16:30 |
| jon_y | hmm, infobot died | 16:31 |
| teotwaki | Sicelo: infobot ain't here | 16:31 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 16:31 |
| jon_y | so, has anybody written a dalvik vm that runs in dalvik to manage this? | 16:31 |
| jon_y | heh, a user mode context switcher, feels sad | 16:32 |
| ShadowJK | heh | 16:32 |
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| Estel_ | zeq1, what about LinuxPMI cluster of every power user's N900, banded together to bruteforce WPA AES? ;) | 17:34 |
| Estel_ | or, more realistically, to compile something on device | 17:35 |
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| trx | Estel_ better create a cluster of every n900 user's computers and share the cpu power among n900's | 18:01 |
| Estel_ | good idea, too :) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, just copy the 770 beowulf that delivers maemo.org | 18:02 |
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| Pali | I have KDE4 KIO!!! it copy each file like this: open; while read; do write; done; close; | 18:08 |
| Pali | and what happen if I copy big directory which contains some chroot filesystem? | 18:08 |
| Pali | /dev/urandom is really funny | 18:08 |
| Pali | 15GB of something random eat my hdd... | 18:09 |
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| infobot | DocScrutinizer: infobot joined! | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ | 18:09 |
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| Pali | who was able to write this stupid copy algorithm in KDE4? | 18:12 |
| teotwaki | infobot: welcome back! | 18:13 |
| infobot | Welcome to the party, back!! | 18:13 |
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| Pali | I did not belive that there is developer which can write this copy code for block/character devices... | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: those who wrote whole KDE4 >:-( | 18:13 |
| Pali | do you know any working file manager for linux? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~welcome teotwaki | 18:14 |
| infobot | teotwaki, Sup yo? | 18:14 |
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| Pali | all kde apps using KIO, so every kde file manager is buggy | 18:14 |
| Pali | mc is bad too, there is no *proper* for ftp | 18:15 |
| teotwaki | ~welcome infobot | 18:15 |
| Pali | and no working smb or ssh... | 18:15 |
| infobot | infobot, Sup yo? | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ssh in mc should work, no? | 18:16 |
| Pali | it using some kind of fish... | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err, yep. seen sth like that | 18:17 |
| Pali | it writing all stdout/stderr to terminal | 18:17 |
| Pali | and damange mc curses gui | 18:18 |
| Pali | and ftp implementation of ftp except that ftp ls command has format of ls -l | 18:19 |
| Pali | smb is for some reason disabled in some distributions | 18:19 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, ping | 19:42 |
| Estel_ | Pali, who ported compat-bluetooth as optional modules for kernel-power (separatae package in past, and integrated currently) | 19:42 |
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| Estel_ | MrPingu, are You aware, that free N900 is awaiting for You?:) | 19:43 |
| MrPingu | Estel_: Yes, I even replied ;) | 19:43 |
| Estel_ | nice to hear | 19:43 |
| MrPingu | Had seen it earlier but didn't have to time write a reply :P | 19:44 |
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| inkbottle | hi, would there be something like an emergency terminal, or a terminal without X? in case the device has gone really bad | 20:05 |
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| MrPingu | inkbottle: only if you installed recoveryboot or backupmenu before... | 20:07 |
| Estel_ | inkbottle, backupmenu and it's recovery shell | 20:07 |
| Estel_ | or what MrPingu said :) | 20:07 |
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| Estel_ | freemangordon, Pali, broadcom claims, that model of bluetooth adaptor we have in N900 is able to upgrade to bluetooth 3.0 via software, IF device have also access to 802.11 one, too (Wifi) | 20:09 |
| inkbottle | I don't think i've installed those. But a recovery shell would be great | 20:09 |
| Estel_ | as bluetooth 3.0 is nothing else than 2.1 + high-speed data transfer over 802.11, negotiated by bluetooth 2.1 | 20:09 |
| Estel_ | bluetooth stack in N900 is bluez, from mainstream | 20:09 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if using newest bluetooth-compat and wireless-compat for our wifi, could we convince our bluetooth stack to gain 3.0 capabilities? | 20:10 |
| Estel_ | hardware-wise seems possible, and mainstream bluez even have some "agent" to "interrogate" chip's firmware, if it can accept firmware upgrade | 20:10 |
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| Estel_ | maybe updating bluez would be a way to go? Is it related to bluetooth-compat drivers, available from KP, at all? | 20:11 |
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| MrPingu | That would be great, an upgrade to BT 3.0 :P | 20:17 |
| Estel_ | it seems that by all means, hardware-wise it's possible. I just wonder if some closed source bloat doesn't prevent us from that | 20:21 |
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| Estel_ | if no, it's just matter of someone who would like to take it, and have skills (or will and time to gain them) necessary - which isn't entirely easy in our world, where everyone is overprojected :P | 20:21 |
| Estel_ | be it software or hardware wise | 20:22 |
| Estel_ | even me, who isn't skilled coder at all - I'm doing replacement body, things around Ed and truecrypt, etc, etc, and result is that 2 raspberry Pi's are lying on my desk for 3 weeks, untouched | 20:22 |
| Estel_ | it's great to have "fresh blood", especially as talented as zeq, for example, who out-of-nowhere (almost) joined our KP_CSSU team :) | 20:24 |
| Estel_ | any idea about it, anyone? | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1255008#post1255008 | 20:33 |
| Estel_ | it's kinda dumb, with allt hings we can do, not being able to auto-save photos to encrypted partition (or any other than mmcblk0p1) | 20:33 |
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| Estel_ | chem|st, might delete this topic? | 20:50 |
| Estel_ | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1254684 | 20:50 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I see no reason why not. | 20:51 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | There isn't a fragment of useful information there | 20:52 |
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| RiD | hello guys... guess what, my phone's microUSB broke! i knew this day was coming | 20:57 |
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| RiD | now errr | 21:00 |
| RiD | the microusb female thingy is attached to the charging cable | 21:00 |
| RiD | so i didn't pull it out yet, but it's 100% loose inside, so not glued anymore | 21:00 |
| MrPingu | :( | 21:00 |
| RiD | err how do i pull that thing without #%(/ even more? | 21:00 |
| RiD | its a sad day for penguin | 21:00 |
| RiD | I already got it out.... oh well | 21:04 |
| RiD | at least the phone is not broken | 21:04 |
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| Sicelo | ~usbfix | 21:05 |
| infobot | it has been said that usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater) | 21:05 |
| Sicelo | RiD: ^^ | 21:05 |
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| RiD | Sicelo oh well | 21:10 |
| RiD | 2 years and 2 months... | 21:11 |
| RiD | "plugged in, doesn't work. Hmm weird, let me try to plug out and plug in back" | 21:17 |
| RiD | "doesn't work. Meh i'll plug out" | 21:17 |
| RiD | and then the female came with it | 21:17 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | RiD: I suggest you file your charger plug down too as per post 2 on that thread, seems to help reduce issues. | 21:24 |
| RiD | it's already too late, but i surely will do if i manage to fix it | 21:25 |
| RiD | (the phone usb) | 21:25 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I gather that it's a bit late now but it's worth doing IMO, good luck with repairing | 21:26 |
| RiD | my father will try to repair it as he's quite used to fixing electronic devices, etc. | 21:27 |
| RiD | The problem is that his eyesight isn't that good anymore, and the usb thing is tiny | 21:27 |
| RiD | first thing to do is to open it without breaking anything, haha | 21:28 |
| sixwheeledbeast | This maybe helpful too ... http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=547991&postcount=20 | 21:32 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | Have you seen this "Frankeinsteinian arrangement" yet lol. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=86279 | 22:16 |
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| Estel_ | sixwheeledbeast, lol | 22:38 |
| Estel_ | what a demolition | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | honestly, I would never do something like that to save 2$ on port... | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | and trade carrying female-to-female hostmode adaptor for carrying male-to-male cable for normal connection and charging :P | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | sounds like bad trade-off, but if it works for him... | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | funny, for hostmode with charging, he need Y-cable with 3 male ends | 22:39 |
| Estel_ | must be looking fine | 22:40 |
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| sixwheeledbeast | I couldn't believe it, when I looked at the pictures | 22:41 |
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| samator | hhello! | 23:24 |
| samator | i need ideas for what to do with an old retired n900. | 23:26 |
| sixwheeledbeast | use it? | 23:26 |
| samator | not sure if i wana sell it, so still thinking of how this device could be useful | 23:26 |
| samator | sixwheeledbeast : using an iphone 4s atm | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | samator, considering that You're using inferior device now, and it suits your taste | 23:27 |
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| Estel_ | no idea what You may do with n900 :) Is it still working fine? | 23:27 |
| Estel_ | for example, I'm pentesting my network now, with ettercap, sniffing own router password... Kind of practice.... ;) | 23:28 |
| Estel_ | I'm not entirely sure if Your use case match features of N900, though :D | 23:28 |
| samator | well in that case yes it is inferior | 23:29 |
| samator | but the apps are of better quality in general | 23:29 |
| Estel_ | I wouldn't call anything written for apple "a better quality", at all | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | but thats philosophical dispute :) | 23:30 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I don't agree, more of them but not better quality | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | I don't see much reason or way to convince You that using Debian programs via easy debian on N900, on full LXDE desktop, is better... | 23:30 |
| Estel_ | or even normal Maemo ones | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | in any type. Games? try running Homeworld (real one, not some mobile pseudo-port) on iphone | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | or jagged alliance ;) | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | or X-Plane | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | or... | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | office suite? LibreOffice. Dot. :P | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | GIMP | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | TrueCrypt | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | hostmode for usb devices | 23:31 |
| Estel_ | resistive screen with pressure sensitivity, so You can paint better than on wacom painting tablet (see TMO thread for drawings) | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | etc etc | 23:32 |
| Estel_ | surre, apple's garden have 234236567325462385 "apps", but msot of them do the same thing, in 5-6 groups. They have apps, we have programs, I use to say :) | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | so if You preffer iphone, well, sell Your N90 0to someone who will be using it hapilly. No idea what you could do, otherwise, if You already exchanged it for inferior device | 23:33 |
| Estel_ | IDK, maybe voip phone? | 23:34 |
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| Estel_ | no much reason to not use n900 all the tiem + benefit from real voip capabilities, but... Some people used N800 as voip phone for his parents, You could do the same with n900, despite fact that it's big waste for such amazing device. | 23:34 |
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| RiD | lol | 23:37 |
| RiD | i'll go to nokia idon't*care* once again and see for how much they would fix my n900 issues | 23:38 |
| sixwheeledbeast | I think he's gone to check the apple store for hostmode... :) | 23:38 |
| RiD | ^haha | 23:38 |
| RiD | i was actually setting up some stuff to make use of hostmode when the usb suicided so | 23:38 |
| RiD | no hostmode 'till it's fixed | 23:39 |
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| merlin1991 | hehe, I once used hostmode to play a video file form my external hdd to my tv, turned out that was too much processing and it stuttered all the time | 23:47 |
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| merlin1991 | though after copying it to the emmc it played fine | 23:47 |
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| Estel_ | merlin1991, strange | 23:48 |
| Estel_ | it shouldn't be much processing to read file form external hd, even if our hostmode is indeed limited to 4MB/s | 23:48 |
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