IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2012-08-23

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vi__zeq: ping00:52
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DocScrutinizer05povbot_: seen infobot01:00
povbot_DocScrutinizer05: infobot was last seen in #maemo 4 hours, 48 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <infobot> zeq meant: DocScrutinizer05: maemo-pan doesn't appear to have been updated since OS2008, so I guess I'll look into porting it after reading the tmo topic you also linked if that doesn't point me to something working properly on maemo5 (icd2 plugin; like usb networki...01:00
DocScrutinizer05povbot_: seen ChanServ01:00
povbot_DocScrutinizer05: I have not seen ChanServ.01:00
nox-nickserv is back at least01:00
DocScrutinizer05SIC!01:00
DocScrutinizer05ChanServ: help01:01
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer0501:01
DocScrutinizer05at least that works01:01
nox-heh01:01
DocScrutinizer05heh what?01:02
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nox-povbot didnt see chanserv altho its here...01:02
DocScrutinizer05freenode in trouble01:03
nox-yeah there was a message earlier, like some $important box had a powerfailure and the ups was awol...01:04
DocScrutinizer05infobot got busted during the process01:04
DocScrutinizer05I hate that01:04
DocScrutinizer05actually freenode crew should offer an account on some freenode server for infobot01:05
DocScrutinizer05she's as much services as nickserv ever gets01:06
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* DocScrutinizer05 heads over to other chan to check what's infobot status01:07
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: and you keeping op coz of services?01:17
DocScrutinizer05ZogG_laptop: WUT? plz r-prshe01:18
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ZogG_laptopdoesn't matter, read the log.01:18
ZogG_laptopwas taking about freenode services down01:19
DocScrutinizer05too complicated01:20
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Estel_DocScrutinizer05, Hostmode for N950/N9 died?02:26
DocScrutinizer05I stopped cardiopulmonary support02:27
Estel_I see. Why so, was it een more complicated than in Maemo 5? :)02:27
DocScrutinizer05I dispise HARM and I find no cooperate support for hostmode on that unbearable OS02:28
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DocScrutinizer05yes, aegis spoiled the game pretty much02:29
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nox-i just hope jolla wont use it...02:29
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DocScrutinizer05I'm willing to fight kernel. I'm however *NOT* willing to fight bullshoit that stps me from tweaking kernel02:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer05, absolutely understandable02:30
DocScrutinizer05esp for no good reason at all02:30
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Estel_and You know what? even from user perspective, it's same feeling (fighting Os and it's additions)02:30
Estel_of course support for N950 would be great, but I feel Your pain02:31
DocScrutinizer05I know, I gave up when I realized it's not just me02:31
Estel_tried normal linux way of modifying some files. Once.02:31
Estel_DocScrutinizer05, BTw, is it about aegis as in Harmattan, or ARm TrustMyAssComputing as whole?02:32
Estel_i.e Mer under N950/N9 - maybe it would be more bearable for hostmode?02:32
Estel_Nemo is loosing dumb'icity and becoming better and better every day. sure, aegis kills much fun of using device with other stack (closed CAL etc), but how much it is related to hostmode too?02:33
Estel_BTW, someone somewhere is asking why "people who worked on hostmode for harm abandoned it". Won't You mind, if I quote You from IRC here, using literal quotation?02:34
Estel_I feel it's great sumamry of why ;)02:34
Estel_s/sumamry/summary/02:34
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: for all I heard, once mer would be a reality, it might host h-e-n without problems02:38
Estel_nice to hear, but isn't it reality. now?02:39
Estel_one that is jsut expanding?02:39
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Estel_DocScrutinizer05, ^^^02:47
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DocScrutinizer05well, i'm not following, supporting and pushing more than 2...3 distros. Sorry too few hours in a day, and nobody from mer/nemo approached me about it02:51
DocScrutinizer05seems hostmode has at least as low priority to those projects as has bme-replacement02:52
DocScrutinizer05and, I knowit's silly, I got a lil bitter and bored over the years02:53
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DocScrutinizer05so if they think they can get hostmode from plain upstream (a rather sane assumption, since sane hw on N9(50)), it's fine with me. If they fail, they have to think about incentive as I'm not interested in HARM, nor in hw-kbd-less devices at large02:56
DocScrutinizer05my N9(xx) devices came to me as lead Nokians felt I should receive an sample, no matter what I do with it02:57
DocScrutinizer05I feel no obligation to fulfill any contract02:58
DocScrutinizer05and as things are right now, HARM is extremely unpleasant and annoying to me, whenever I deal with it02:59
DocScrutinizer05mer/nemo has to talk me in yet03:00
DocScrutinizer05I git no debt to bring03:00
DocScrutinizer05got*03:00
prontoFYI: blackhat 2012 usa videos: http://dc.pronto185.com/blackhat/03:03
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ShadowJKbiggest problem with infobot is that it's poorly written perl mess03:26
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ShadowJKand it was only written for "sane" irc networks, and with a certain netiquette in mind. Apart from just plain bad network code, freenode's funny antics often get interpreted as "I'm banned", and it doesn't try to engage in any ban evasion03:28
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DocScrutinizer05aah perl, yes03:36
DocScrutinizer05friggin biggest problem though is that I got no direct account to retsart it when it's offline03:36
DocScrutinizer05Tim anyway uttered "I wish somebody would help on improving the scheduler"03:37
robbiethe1stSet it to restart by itself!03:38
DocScrutinizer05not that *I* had any idea what the bot scheduler does, or how all that magic works03:38
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DocScrutinizer05robbiethe1st: I suggested that constantly since 18 months03:38
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robbiethe1stheck, I did that in my PHP bot, so...03:39
DocScrutinizer05I also suggested Tim should set up a IRC script, linux account with login: "killall infobot", or even mail filter to do the same - alas to no success so far03:39
DocScrutinizer05so no way I can do anything when bot is completely offline, other than mail Tim and ask for "/etc/init.d/infobot force-reload"03:41
DocScrutinizer05this might take from 30 min to 4 days for any response03:41
DocScrutinizer05anyway it seems due once more to send such mail03:42
DocScrutinizer05sometimes I doubt Tim understands what importance and relevance "his" bot has acquired meanwhile03:44
DocScrutinizer05I think there are around 5k unique users in ~150 chan that rely on the factoid database03:45
DocScrutinizer05even if only eventually and occasionaly03:45
DocScrutinizer05could any of you replace ~flashing with the proper URL in 10 seconds?03:46
DocScrutinizer05or quote ~flatbatrecover ?03:47
DocScrutinizer05I nagged freenode staff about it, but they are still reluctant to appreciate value of the bot, and act accordingly (i.e. offer "official" hosting in services domain)03:48
* ShadowJK had a script that ran in a loop in screen03:52
ShadowJKthen you have script which runs on another box, that sshs in and checks for that screen session periodically03:56
ShadowJKas bonus, on first box the script checking infobox sshs to second box to check for screen session too :P03:57
ShadowJKAs long as both machines don't reboot simultaneously, they'll poke eachother back to life03:58
ShadowJK(ghetto way of doing autostart when you dont have root access)03:58
jacekowski@reboot in cron04:00
jacekowskithat's the right way of doing it04:00
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DocScrutinizer05sure thing, but I'd already be happy with Tim creating an account for me on his infobot box, with login shell "/etc/init.d/infobot restart"04:12
DocScrutinizer05I could do sam ething any time by sending ~die, but obviously only if friggin bot is logged in04:12
DocScrutinizer05under any of its 4 personalities at least04:13
DocScrutinizer05and if bot refuses to connect to freenode at all (due to whatever fsckup), the only path to recover is to mail/ping/pester Tim to do "/etc/init.d/infobot restart" manually04:14
DocScrutinizer05btw:04:16
DocScrutinizer05[2012-08-23 03:16:08] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on apt (account apt):04:16
DocScrutinizer05[2012-08-23 03:16:08] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Aug 16 21:01:06 1999 (13 years, 1 week, 3 days, 04:15:02 ago)04:16
DocScrutinizer05[04:16
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brzysoch my god, i slept on keyboard few sec ago... time to go sleep ;D04:32
brzysnite nite guyz04:34
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Estel_good night!04:37
Estel_everybody04:37
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whsailinghi,everybody,i got a problem. when i install python2.5-qt4,the terminal return the follow message:04:42
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DocScrutinizer05yay, down to 266, INCL chanServ05:03
DocScrutinizer05(btw that terminal msg is a tad terse ;-D)05:04
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DocScrutinizer05whsailing: seems your connectivity got flawed and thus some of your posts missing? see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-08-23.log.html#t2012-08-23T04:42:2905:06
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BCMMis there anything like xclip available on maemo, without going the whole easy debian route?10:44
BCMMi just want to send something to the clipboard over ssh10:45
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Lava_Crofthttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8520012:08
Lava_Croftaw bcmm left12:08
Lava_Croftcombined with http://whereswalden.com/2009/10/23/pbcopy-and-pbpaste-for-linux/12:08
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zeq1Having another N900 has given me a really crazy idea: Port LinuxPMI to ARM... :P12:13
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zeq1for those who don't know LinuxPMI is the successor to OpenMosix.12:32
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fomg-optimizeIssue with linuxpmi is that it is outdated13:00
fomg-optimizeMosix is actually up to date but sadly closed source13:00
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fomg-optimize(by outdated i mean not supporting any recent kernels)13:01
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fomg-optimizeWhen I get the time for it I hope to get moisx up and running on a bunch of old half broken laptops i have here :)13:01
zeq1fomg-optimize: we don't have a recent kernel ;)13:03
fomg-optimizeWell true hehe13:04
fomg-optimizeSIngle system image is just such an awesome way to have a cluster none the less :). So creds for taking interest :)13:05
zeq1actually what I was thinking after discussing it on #linuxpmi was re-using some of the code here: https://github.com/virtualopensystems/linux-kvm-arm/commits/beagleboard-2.6.29-kvm to provide the infrastructure for the ARM port13:05
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fomg-optimizeAah, interesting!13:05
fomg-optimizemisox can run as a virtual machine by the way13:06
fomg-optimize*mosix13:06
fomg-optimizeNot efficient at all but still :)13:06
fomg-optimizeSeems you have thought about it properly though :)13:08
zeq1came to me in a dream ;)13:08
zeq1spurred on by receiving my devel device :P13:09
zeq1I should get back to fennec first though ...13:09
fomg-optimizeI have consideret quite a few times to just happen to plug in a few hundred usb stick on all of the universities computers running a single system image solution as a protest to us running windows on all of them,13:10
fomg-optimizeHopefully finding a research project that needs to work through a lot of data13:10
fomg-optimizeTo prove a pint13:10
fomg-optimize*point13:10
fomg-optimizeAnd of course run that13:11
fomg-optimizeTo show that we have a super computer on campus not being used13:11
fomg-optimizeOf course cerating an event of it all13:11
fomg-optimize*creating13:11
zeq1It always has struck me as an awful waste13:12
fomg-optimizeVery much, the bigger the network, the more waste, unless they are running thin clients, but that is not a given13:13
fomg-optimizeEspecially schools/unis are slow to adopt thin clients13:14
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jon_yfomg-optimize: IT is a heavy weight, it's not going to budge13:15
jon_yconservatively MS :)13:15
jon_yand probably understaffed13:15
jon_ythey're not going to risk their hide to hippies :)13:15
fomg-optimizeYeah, sigh13:16
jon_ynobody gets fired for buying IBM/MS/whatever Enterprise-ish13:16
fomg-optimizeEspecially since every single computer club on every single campus in the world pretty much all run *nix13:16
fomg-optimizeThey have free wisdom and knowdledge there not being used as free slavery13:16
jon_yI had a hard time convincing the IT people that SSH isn't a hacking software13:17
jon_yI gave up and put my server on tcp 44313:17
jon_yalso, they think Cygwin is some sort of Virtualization software, which policy disallows13:17
fomg-optimizeYeah oh, by the way13:18
fomg-optimizeWE have on campus IT support free for all13:18
fomg-optimizeThat is paid by the Uni13:18
zeq1clueless13:18
fomg-optimizeLet me just say quite a lot of the time is being spent on fixing malware/adware13:18
jon_ydo they need you to install crapware on your machine to use the campus network?13:18
fomg-optimizeOf course13:18
jon_ylol13:19
fomg-optimizeTHough i do believe the printing solution is the only thing needed as such now13:19
zeq1People have come to accept MS (and now Apple) as the way IT should be.  Anything else is just wrong.13:19
fomg-optimizeWell, at least there is one new player13:20
jon_yalso, the crapware only supports Windows13:20
jon_yMacs and Linux is out13:20
fomg-optimizeCould possibly, maybe in the future make people open to more change13:20
fomg-optimizeOk, nvm then ;)13:20
jon_ythere was that virus rampage a few years ago13:21
zeq1fomg-optimize: no new players in established markets.  It seems in recent years the effort has been for companies to withdraw from markets pre-emptively.13:21
jon_yI can't blame them for n00b users overrunning everything13:21
jon_ymaybe they could isolate each node to disallow peer communication13:21
jon_yit probably breaks some warcraft3 lan party or something13:22
fomg-optimizeI thought about joing the customer support team to get some extra cash, then I realized that supporting windows would decrease my life span, thus costing me more in the end. I would much rather considering being a lab rat13:22
jon_yheh, customer support is hated by customers, vice versa is also true13:22
zeq1the mobile space was still relatively immature until Apple and Android divided it up, mature established markets are almost impossible to break without disruptive technology emerging13:23
jon_yNokia had it's chance but blew it13:23
fomg-optimizeNot nokia, a certain ceo rather perhaps?13:23
jon_yyeah, that guy13:23
fomg-optimizeNot to be mentioned by name13:23
zeq1it had disruptive tech, but lost its nerve13:23
fomg-optimizeI'd say that the mobile space still is rather iamture13:24
fomg-optimizeBut openings for new tech is being closed by the day13:24
zeq1It becomes increasingly difficult for established players to dare rock the boat13:25
fomg-optimizeI really wonder though, is there actually any chance for maemo/meego/tizen/mer any more to actually take any market share?13:25
zeq1disruption can aversely affect their revenue streams13:26
fomg-optimizeNo matter how good it would be13:26
zeq1not directly IMO13:26
zeq1*we* have to be more subversive13:26
fomg-optimizePlease explain?13:26
zeq1The players in the established mobile space will leave gaps which can be filled by truly innovative ideas and implementations that can't be achieved commercially by the big players (due to revenue risk)13:28
fomg-optimizeAh, got it13:29
zeq1it's possible to carve out new applications of technology that the market doesn't provide for currently13:29
fomg-optimizeLike the n770 / n800 could have been if it had phone features built in13:30
fomg-optimizeTHat was the only thing I though about while using it13:30
zeq1yes13:30
zeq1but that's now history of course13:31
fomg-optimizeYes indeed13:31
zeq1maybe a future prospect is mobile mesh networking ?13:31
zeq1by-pass the carriers completely13:31
fomg-optimizeDo you have insight as to why nokie did not combine it with phone feature?13:31
fomg-optimizeIt seemed so obvious?13:32
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zeq1^ as I mentioned above, disruption of their existing revenue stream13:32
zeq1it was a different part of the company13:32
fomg-optimizeOh, not enough communcation inter department?13:32
fomg-optimizeOr competition?13:33
zeq1IMO13:33
fomg-optimizeMeh networking is an interesting approach but then you would have to have someone responsible for getting systematic reception solution, just look at how much trouble all of the free wifi / internet solutions have expanding13:34
zeq1It was probably seen a quite a coup to the Maemo team to get a cell modem for the N90013:34
zeq1fomg-optimize: it would have to be community driven (outside the hackerdom)13:35
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fomg-optimizePeople consider the hassle of using a mesh network be too high compared to the cost of operators. But do note I am thinking industrialized countries here, not developing ones in which people have a much tighter budget13:36
zeq1exactly13:36
zeq1it just needs to be made to "just work"13:36
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fomg-optimizeOh that reminds me of a similar problem a certain free operating system supposedly has ;)13:37
fomg-optimizeAnd which is now gaining market share in that very same market13:38
zeq1in fairness, in the early days it DID have that problem13:38
fomg-optimizeOh, it VERY MUCH did13:38
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fomg-optimizeIf I dont recall wrong I believe some country is building their own phone network based on wifi13:39
zeq1mesh?13:39
fomg-optimizeSouth america perhaps13:40
zeq1could be13:40
fomg-optimizeLet me try to find it13:40
zeq1it just needs to be proven viable13:40
fomg-optimizeANyways it is due to being much lower licensing cost and more freeom13:40
fomg-optimizeAnd very mountainy so lots of free line of sight from the towers13:40
zeq1if there's available a cheap commodity router running an OpenWRT variant preconfigured for mesh wifi and voip routing, and handsets preconfigured to integrate with it...13:42
zeq1it would be interesting13:42
zeq1perhaps even more-so if some robust MOSIX-style clustering could give each device supercomputer like capabilities ;)13:43
mavhcwho do you contact when it doesn't work?13:43
zeq1the users would have to contact the local deployer13:44
zeq1how's it any different to any other village service13:44
zeq1?13:44
zeq1the point is decentralisation and an open platform which doesn't limit what the users can do with it13:46
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zeq1this is mostly just a thought experiment though, right? :)13:46
zeq1personally, I think the technology exists to implement it13:47
fomg-optimizeThe only issue for mobile would be battery drain13:47
fomg-optimizeBut the technology very much exists13:48
fomg-optimizeJust look at how well these gaming through internet work13:48
fomg-optimizeI cannot remember the service name13:48
fomg-optimizeCloud gaming13:49
fomg-optimizeIs the technical term13:49
zeq1ok13:49
zeq1similar concept13:49
fomg-optimizeyes, but with server client roles solid13:49
fomg-optimizeBut still, the infrastructure is good enough13:49
fomg-optimizeSo as long as there is good enough software it is perfectly possible13:50
zeq1in principle it could be done by a start-up13:50
zeq1it's just likely to receive a lot of *political* pressure from vested interests13:51
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zeq1perhaps regulatory difficulties in some places, or special discounts from carriers in targeted markets13:52
fomg-optimizeThe whole of singapore has free 1mbit wifi13:52
fomg-optimizeNow consider how many buildings it has o penetrate13:53
fomg-optimizeIt would be even easier in open landscapes13:53
zeq1So that's a city-state scale example13:53
fomg-optimizeYep13:54
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fomg-optimizeMacedonia has 95% of population wireless mesh network13:58
fomg-optimizeHard to find info13:58
fomg-optimizeThe issue still remains though14:00
fomg-optimizePower usage14:00
fomg-optimizeSome proper development would have to be done in low power mesh  hardware solutions for phones?14:01
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zeq1don't we have the ideal platform for that?14:09
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fomg-optimizeWell true, It's just that I do not know what is already out there14:14
fomg-optimizeHardware wis14:14
fomg-optimizee14:14
fomg-optimizeWhen i run my phone as a hotspot sharing my internet with people my  batter drain goes crazy14:15
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fomg-optimizeAnd I often do this, I have unlimited data on my service so as soon as I travel I share my internet for free to everyone unencrypted14:15
fomg-optimizeI seem to be very popular on airports :)14:16
zeq1the 3G modem draws lots of current14:16
fomg-optimizeOh god14:19
fomg-optimizeFacepalm14:19
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fomg-optimizeSeriously why di I not think of that, I should have tested laptop-phone power usage14:19
fomg-optimizeI have also tested running wifi on but with no users14:20
fomg-optimizeBy checking data transfer14:20
zeq1wifi should be as bad14:20
fomg-optimizeWifi circuits drain a lot on idle as well14:20
zeq1shouldn't*14:21
fomg-optimizeIt pretty much is actually14:21
fomg-optimizeIf i run my phone on wifi from home the battery is drained just as much as if I were using 3g only14:21
zeq1depends on signal strength14:21
fomg-optimizeIt might very well be bad wifi implementation on the phone14:21
fomg-optimizeBut reviews have not complained14:21
fomg-optimizeSO i just figure it is normal14:21
zeq1could be you have a noisy wifi env?14:22
zeq1lots of other networks?14:22
fomg-optimizeWell not as bad as some people are14:22
fomg-optimizeResidential villa area14:22
fomg-optimizeNot apartment complex14:22
fomg-optimizeSo just a few14:22
fomg-optimizeMuch worse in the student complex i live in during winter14:23
zeq1Battery seems to last well with wifi only here14:23
fomg-optimizeAh, might be the hardware implementation then14:23
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fomg-optimizeI'm just glad if it isnt as bad on other phones14:23
zeq1N900 here14:23
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fomg-optimizeI would love to run my wifi hotspot 24/7 but it is impossible even with a huge expanded battery on xperia x1014:24
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fomg-optimizeI remember the n800 wifi being exemplary14:24
fomg-optimizeAt least in reception14:25
zeq1you could try limiting the wifi speed and only using 2G14:25
fomg-optimizeMy bandwidth on the service is limited to 1mbit14:25
zeq1hardly worth 3G then :P14:25
fomg-optimizeHaha14:25
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fomg-optimizeNo, trust me Edge vs hsdpa14:26
fomg-optimizeDear god what a difference14:26
zeq1better latency on 3G14:26
fomg-optimizeI shut off 2g because of how god awful the speeds are14:26
fomg-optimizeYes, noticable so even web surfing14:26
fomg-optimizeBut then perhaps it is the wifi chip in xperia x10 that suck to a great extent14:26
zeq1it does consume much more power though14:26
fomg-optimizeRather than wifi it self14:27
fomg-optimize*in14:27
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zeq1maybe it doesn't do wifi power management?14:27
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fomg-optimizeBut still, with a mesh network, there would have to be a lot of relaying14:27
fomg-optimizethat would consume much more power14:27
zeq1yeah, maybe the devices would need to be "docked" quite often14:28
zeq1like with a cordless landline14:28
fomg-optimizeBut I am certain if the interest rises, there will be great technical leaps none the less14:28
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fomg-optimizePeople are already shutting of wifi to save power14:28
fomg-optimizeBluetooth even14:29
fomg-optimizeSo there is a demand for lower power useage14:29
zeq1of course14:29
fomg-optimizeSo, it might be that the technology will come by itself14:29
fomg-optimizeAll that has to be ready are standards to make use of it when it arrives14:29
fomg-optimizethere are already 70 different ad hoc standards competing14:30
fomg-optimizeThat number has to decrease or it will be impossible14:30
zeq1I remember reading about directional semiconductor RF transmitters a few years back14:30
zeq1I wonder what happened with that?14:30
fomg-optimizeTruth be told, I have no idea what so ever :)14:31
zeq1What I read was the device would transmit directional narrow beam radio signals instead of broadcast, meaning it used far less power.14:32
zeq1obviously it needed to know where the target device is relative to its orientation14:33
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fomg-optimizeAh, i've thought about how that ought to be a much better soltuion14:36
fomg-optimizeMy 24dbi 2.4ghz antenna is somewhat cumbersome to attach to my phone14:36
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zeq1some interesting papers here: http://www.trondeau.com/grc2012-abstracts/14:39
zeq1Sounds interesting: "GNU-radio/USRP-based software-defined radio testbed for distributed beamforming"14:39
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zeq1just conference abstracts so not so many details, I'm sure three's more following the links though.14:41
zeq1s/three/there/14:42
zeq1still no infobot :(14:43
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fomg-optimizeAh, truth be told though, that is way beyond my knowledge level :)14:46
fomg-optimizeBut it is all really interesting14:46
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jon_yfomg-optimize: forget about proper battery life if you use software radio14:47
jon_ythose things are tuned for wideband14:47
jon_yunlike normal cellphones that are tuned to a select few frequencies14:48
fomg-optimizeYeah, but that was probably not the point, rather that it is possible to do14:50
fomg-optimizeI'm just guessing here :)14:50
fomg-optimizezeql posted the papers14:50
zeq1I couldn't find anything referring directly to what I mentioned, but I thought there were some interesting projects there.14:52
zeq1I thought the beamforming could be useful for interconnecting separate mesh networks perhaps?14:53
zeq1as we were talking about earlier ^14:53
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jon_yzeq1: mesh network == high latency, think tor :)14:56
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fomg-optimizeDat be true, but it is still really cool to have your own global network to use when internet gets too closed down due to all copyright laws ;)14:59
fomg-optimizeAnd especially a mobile one to say bye bye to operators15:00
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jon_ynot sure how routing will work15:06
jon_yor how much battery life will be affected15:06
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ShadowJKit's expensive to set up cell towers :P15:53
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jaskadeploy towers with mirv misiles15:54
ShadowJKthe thing about mesh networks is that each additional user roughly halves bandwidth ;p15:56
ShadowJKThere's only so many times you can do that before not even irc works :)15:56
jon_yShadowJK: don't forget 2 hour battery life :)15:56
jon_yand random lags and packet loss15:57
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teotwakiShadowJK: that's only the case if your routing tables are very inefficient.16:00
teotwakiShadowJK: if you accept the fact that sometimes (just like TCP does), a connection may not reach its destination, and only *then* start looking for a new route, then you shouldn't have bandwidth problems.16:00
* ShadowJK just tested long term idle with charge*.sh and wifi running, projected idle time 73 hours with 1320mAh battery16:01
ShadowJKalso cellular modem active in standby on 3g16:01
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jon_yI bet it'll be doing more than idling when routing packets from somewhere16:03
ShadowJKyeah I was just responding to the "wifi eats as much as 3g" from earlier16:03
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ShadowJKand as I accidentally left spare N900 on wifi+3g last night i checked what powerdrain over 16 hours had been16:04
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teotwakialso, the N900 is what, 3 years old now? 4?16:06
teotwakiHardly the kind of hardware you should be using for these kind of benchmarks.16:06
ShadowJKThis is using WRT54GL with tomato firmware. with stock firmware power consumption on n800,n810 and n900 was much much much bigger16:06
ShadowJKIt's the newest Maemo phone :P16:07
jon_yhow does Andy compare? :)16:08
jon_yhmm, what do I call the iphone...16:08
ShadowJKI can't convince my tablet to idle sufficiently. :P16:09
jon_yyes, Andy and Steve16:09
ShadowJKand havent found any usable way of measuring power consumption reliably16:09
ShadowJKbut the percentages drop off faster16:09
jon_ystill not sure if there is an android phone that comes close to the n900 in capability16:10
ShadowJKnot that that's a useful measure.16:10
ShadowJKThere are little things that annoy on andy. Like opening links in background tab (yay for that feature!), only to discover that when switching to tabs you still have to wait for the page to load, which kinda defeats the point16:11
ShadowJKOh and also trying to listen to netradio, and it stops if you switch to another app or if screen dims :P16:13
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Sicelo~israel16:25
Sicelohmm16:25
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Sicelo~israel-scuks16:25
Sicelo~israelsuckks16:25
Sicelo~israelsucks16:25
Sicelo~israel-sucks16:25
Sicelook16:25
Sicelosorry for spam16:25
ShadowJK...16:26
Siceloused to be there .. something to do with MAG & N950 iinm16:26
Sicelohttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2012-05-20.log.html#t2012-05-20T00:14:1716:27
jon_yShadowJK: what16:28
jon_ywhen you switch apps?16:28
jon_yno daemonize to taskbar option?16:28
ShadowJKno?16:29
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jon_yShadowJK: the net radio thing16:30
jon_yit hass to be in your face foreground?16:30
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jon_ys/hass/has/16:30
jon_yhmm, infobot died16:31
teotwakiSicelo: infobot ain't here16:31
ShadowJKyes16:31
jon_yso, has anybody written a dalvik vm that runs in dalvik to manage this?16:31
jon_yheh, a user mode context switcher, feels sad16:32
ShadowJKheh16:32
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Estel_zeq1, what about LinuxPMI cluster of every power user's N900, banded together to bruteforce WPA AES? ;)17:34
Estel_or, more realistically, to compile something on device17:35
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trxEstel_ better create a cluster of every n900 user's computers and share the cpu power among n900's18:01
Estel_good idea, too :)18:01
DocScrutinizer05damn, just copy the 770 beowulf that delivers maemo.org18:02
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PaliI have KDE4 KIO!!! it copy each file like this: open; while read; do write; done; close;18:08
Paliand what happen if I copy big directory which contains some chroot filesystem?18:08
Pali/dev/urandom is really funny18:08
Pali15GB of something random eat my hdd...18:09
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!18:09
DocScrutinizer05\o/18:09
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Paliwho was able to write this stupid copy algorithm in KDE4?18:12
teotwakiinfobot: welcome back!18:13
infobotWelcome to the party, back!!18:13
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PaliI did not belive that there is developer which can write this copy code for block/character devices...18:13
DocScrutinizer05Pali: those who wrote whole KDE4 >:-(18:13
Palido you know any working file manager for linux?18:14
DocScrutinizer05~welcome teotwaki18:14
infobotteotwaki, Sup yo?18:14
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Paliall kde apps using KIO, so every kde file manager is buggy18:14
Palimc is bad too, there is no *proper* for ftp18:15
teotwaki~welcome infobot18:15
Paliand no working smb or ssh...18:15
infobotinfobot, Sup yo?18:15
DocScrutinizer05ssh in mc should work, no?18:16
Paliit using some kind of fish...18:17
DocScrutinizer05err, yep. seen sth like that18:17
Paliit writing all stdout/stderr to terminal18:17
Paliand damange mc curses gui18:18
Paliand ftp implementation of ftp except that ftp ls command has format of ls -l18:19
Palismb is for some reason disabled in some distributions18:19
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Estel_freemangordon, ping19:42
Estel_Pali, who ported compat-bluetooth as optional modules for kernel-power (separatae package in past, and integrated currently)19:42
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Estel_MrPingu, are You aware, that free N900 is awaiting for You?:)19:43
MrPinguEstel_: Yes, I even replied ;)19:43
Estel_nice to hear19:43
MrPinguHad seen it earlier but didn't have to time write a reply :P19:44
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inkbottlehi, would there be something like an emergency terminal, or a terminal without X? in case the device has gone really bad20:05
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MrPinguinkbottle: only if you installed recoveryboot or backupmenu before...20:07
Estel_inkbottle, backupmenu and it's recovery shell20:07
Estel_or what MrPingu said :)20:07
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Estel_freemangordon, Pali, broadcom claims, that model of bluetooth adaptor we have in N900 is able to upgrade to bluetooth 3.0 via software, IF device have also access to 802.11 one, too (Wifi)20:09
inkbottleI don't think i've installed those. But a recovery shell would be great20:09
Estel_as bluetooth 3.0 is nothing else than 2.1 + high-speed data transfer over 802.11, negotiated by bluetooth 2.120:09
Estel_bluetooth stack in N900 is bluez, from mainstream20:09
Estel_I wonder if using newest bluetooth-compat and wireless-compat for our wifi, could we convince our bluetooth stack to gain 3.0 capabilities?20:10
Estel_hardware-wise seems possible, and mainstream bluez even have some "agent" to "interrogate" chip's firmware, if it can accept firmware upgrade20:10
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Estel_maybe updating bluez would be a way to go? Is it related to bluetooth-compat drivers, available from KP, at all?20:11
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MrPinguThat would be great, an upgrade to BT 3.0 :P20:17
Estel_it seems that by all means, hardware-wise it's possible. I just wonder if some closed source bloat doesn't prevent us from that20:21
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Estel_if no, it's just matter of someone who would like to take it, and have skills (or will and time to gain them) necessary - which isn't entirely easy in our world, where everyone is overprojected :P20:21
Estel_be it software or hardware wise20:22
Estel_even me, who isn't skilled coder at all - I'm doing replacement body, things around Ed and truecrypt, etc, etc, and result is that 2 raspberry Pi's are lying on my desk for 3 weeks, untouched20:22
Estel_it's great to have "fresh blood", especially as talented as zeq, for example, who out-of-nowhere (almost) joined our  KP_CSSU team :)20:24
Estel_any idea about it, anyone?20:33
Estel_http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1255008#post125500820:33
Estel_it's kinda dumb, with allt hings we can do, not being able to auto-save photos to encrypted partition (or any other than mmcblk0p1)20:33
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Estel_chem|st, might delete this topic?20:50
Estel_http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=125468420:50
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sixwheeledbeastI see no reason why not.20:51
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sixwheeledbeastThere isn't a fragment of useful information there20:52
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RiDhello guys... guess what, my phone's microUSB broke! i knew this day was coming20:57
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RiDnow errr21:00
RiDthe microusb female thingy is attached to the charging cable21:00
RiDso i didn't pull it out yet, but it's 100% loose inside, so not glued anymore21:00
MrPingu:(21:00
RiDerr how do i pull that thing without #%(/ even more?21:00
RiDits a sad day for penguin21:00
RiDI already got it out.... oh well21:04
RiDat least the phone is not broken21:04
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Sicelo~usbfix21:05
infobotit has been said that usbfix is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=75920 - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)21:05
SiceloRiD: ^^21:05
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RiDSicelo oh well21:10
RiD2 years and 2 months...21:11
RiD"plugged in, doesn't work. Hmm weird, let me try to plug out and plug in back"21:17
RiD"doesn't work. Meh i'll plug out"21:17
RiDand then the female came with it21:17
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sixwheeledbeastRiD: I suggest you file your charger plug down too as per post 2 on that thread, seems to help reduce issues.21:24
RiDit's already too late, but i surely will do if i manage to fix it21:25
RiD(the phone usb)21:25
sixwheeledbeastI gather that it's a bit late now but it's worth doing IMO, good luck with repairing21:26
RiDmy father will try to repair it as he's quite used to fixing electronic devices, etc.21:27
RiDThe problem is that his eyesight isn't that good anymore, and the usb thing is tiny21:27
RiDfirst thing to do is to open it without breaking anything, haha21:28
sixwheeledbeastThis maybe helpful too ... http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=547991&postcount=2021:32
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sixwheeledbeastHave you seen this "Frankeinsteinian arrangement" yet lol. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=8627922:16
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Estel_sixwheeledbeast, lol22:38
Estel_what a demolition22:39
Estel_honestly, I would never do something like that to save 2$ on port...22:39
Estel_and trade carrying female-to-female hostmode adaptor for carrying male-to-male cable for normal connection and charging :P22:39
Estel_sounds like bad trade-off, but if it works for him...22:39
Estel_funny, for hostmode with charging, he need Y-cable with 3 male ends22:39
Estel_must be looking fine22:40
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sixwheeledbeastI couldn't believe it, when I looked at the pictures22:41
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samatorhhello!23:24
samatori need ideas for what to do with an old retired n900.23:26
sixwheeledbeastuse it?23:26
samatornot sure if i wana sell it, so still thinking of how this device could be useful23:26
samatorsixwheeledbeast : using an iphone 4s atm23:27
Estel_samator, considering that You're using inferior device now, and it suits your taste23:27
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Estel_no idea what You may do with n900 :) Is it still working fine?23:27
Estel_for example, I'm pentesting my network now, with ettercap, sniffing own router password... Kind of practice.... ;)23:28
Estel_I'm not entirely sure if Your use case match features of N900, though :D23:28
samatorwell in that case yes it is inferior23:29
samatorbut the apps are of better quality in general23:29
Estel_I wouldn't call anything written for apple "a better quality", at all23:30
Estel_but thats philosophical dispute :)23:30
sixwheeledbeastI don't agree, more of them but not better quality23:30
Estel_I don't see much reason or way to convince You that using Debian programs via easy debian on N900, on full LXDE desktop, is better...23:30
Estel_or even normal Maemo ones23:31
Estel_in any type. Games? try running Homeworld (real one, not some mobile pseudo-port) on iphone23:31
Estel_or jagged alliance ;)23:31
Estel_or X-Plane23:31
Estel_or...23:31
Estel_office suite? LibreOffice. Dot. :P23:31
Estel_GIMP23:31
Estel_TrueCrypt23:31
Estel_hostmode for usb devices23:31
Estel_resistive screen with pressure sensitivity, so You can paint better than on wacom painting tablet (see TMO thread for drawings)23:32
Estel_etc etc23:32
Estel_surre, apple's garden have 234236567325462385 "apps", but msot of them do the same thing, in 5-6 groups. They have apps, we  have programs, I use to say :)23:33
Estel_so if You preffer iphone, well, sell Your N90 0to someone who will be using it hapilly. No idea what you could do, otherwise, if You already exchanged it for inferior device23:33
Estel_IDK, maybe voip phone?23:34
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Estel_no much reason to not use n900 all the tiem + benefit from real voip capabilities, but... Some people used N800 as voip phone for his parents, You could do the same with n900, despite fact that it's big waste for such amazing device.23:34
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RiDlol23:37
RiDi'll go to nokia idon't*care* once again and see for how much they would fix my n900 issues23:38
sixwheeledbeastI think he's gone to check the apple store for hostmode... :)23:38
RiD^haha23:38
RiDi was actually setting up some stuff to make use of hostmode when the usb suicided so23:38
RiDno hostmode 'till it's fixed23:39
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merlin1991hehe, I once used hostmode to play a video file form my external hdd to my tv, turned out that was too much processing and it stuttered all the time23:47
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merlin1991though after copying it to the emmc it played fine23:47
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Estel_merlin1991, strange23:48
Estel_it shouldn't be much processing to read file form external hd, even if our hostmode is indeed limited to 4MB/s23:48
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