IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-06-23

DocScrutinizer05	dafaq	00:00
ds3	i mean for the contest	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	because I would win all the prices, except the one for blueled and his pimped N810	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	X-P	00:00
freemangordon	well, I remember that guy on #beagle that told me to replace the SoC :D:D:D	00:00
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	00:01
ds3	what's wrong with the idea of replacing the SoC?	00:01
DocScrutinizer05	welll	00:01
freemangordon	yeah, to put a new one to have stable thumb2 :D	00:01
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freemangordon	ds3: nothing?	00:01
ds3	esp. if the new one is a GP part	00:01
DocScrutinizer05	nothing really, except our most experienced engineers at openmoko killed 3 out of 4 devices by doing just that, on quite easy prototypes that had no crowded motherboard	00:02
freemangordon	mhm, and especially if you don;t need phone calls	00:02
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ds3	DocScrutinizer05: were they doing it themselves?	00:02
DocScrutinizer05	no, they used tools	00:02
ds3	but they were doing it themselves	00:03
ds3	vs having folks who are familiar with the process do it	00:03
vi__	ds3: themselves where qualified engineers.	00:03
ds3	vi__: soldering folks are different from design folks	00:03
vi__	Not imaginary wizards who can reball a chip.	00:03
DocScrutinizer05	WTF do you thin professional EE staff at a phone manuf company is "used to do"??	00:03
vi__	ds3: I know, we look down on them!	00:04
ds3	I have had 100% success swapping out POP's with my CM	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	or "familliar with"?	00:04
ds3	there is a certain knack/practice needed to swap out POPs	00:04
ds3	if this is their first POP rework, 1/4 isn't too bad	00:04
DocScrutinizer05	hell, ATM we get around 50% yield on professional reflow, for GTA04	00:05
ds3	shrug	00:05
ds3	and builds of a certain other open project had yeilds of like 40% at one point	00:07
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ds3	what might be more interesting is getting Harmatten or Freemantle going on the Galaxy Nexus	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	sure	00:07
DocScrutinizer05	haha	00:08
ds3	the extra memory on there would be nice	00:08
DocScrutinizer05	the extra complexity on cellmo too	00:08
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DocScrutinizer05	and on power management, and on GFX	00:09
ds3	the stock android stuff seems to do okay on the PM	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	:shrug:	00:09
DocScrutinizer05	then use android!	00:09
ds3	Linux GFX support for that chip is available... tricky with the version but available	00:09
ds3	android blows	00:09
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DocScrutinizer05	I know one thing for sure: there's no RIL availale for maemo	00:10
DocScrutinizer05	since that's not how maemo works	00:11
DocScrutinizer05	so have fun with RE of libisi and stuff	00:11
ds3	the source for the RIL might be available	00:12
ds3	haven't searched the whole tree	00:12
DocScrutinizer05	there IS NO RIL	00:12
DocScrutinizer05	on maemo	00:12
ds3	I know	00:12
ds3	the sources for the RIL should provide hints as to what needs to be poked to setup calls, etc	00:12
ds3	worse comese to worse, it be comes more like the N800 but faster CPU. I can live w/o a local 3G modem	00:13
DocScrutinizer05	and that helps how? when you don't know the API of the lib?	00:13
DocScrutinizer05	tzzz	00:13
DocScrutinizer05	fine, so now we're from N900-it's-NOT-a-phone maemo to "android sucks" to N800-like ubuntu, or what?	00:14
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ds3	I have never used the N900 voice capabilities.	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	that's clearly your problem	00:15
ds3	so lack of phone just isn't an issue as far as I am concern	00:15
DocScrutinizer05	I'd not invest my time to port 60% of maemo to another phone, to use it as PDA	00:16
ds3	I just want a decent UI with code behind it that isn't design to steal information.	00:16
vi__	~ril	00:16
infobot	i guess ril is Remain in Light, a Talking Heads album featuring them at the peak of their Eno-ness	00:16
vi__	wtf	00:16
vi__	DocScrutinizer05> there IS NO RIL	00:16
vi__	^DAFUQ this means?	00:16
vi__	ds3: have you tried symbian?	00:17
ds3	vi__: no, no interest.	00:17
DocScrutinizer05	https://github.com/aferre/u300-ril	00:17
ds3	I just want a UI on a tablet that works.	00:17
ds3	and android doesn't cut it. let along all the questionable code in there written to allow outside intrusions	00:18
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vi__	ds3: then there is literally nothing else available.	00:20
vi__	ds3: Have you tried wp7?	00:20
ds3	vi__: think so... at stores. not useable.	00:20
Macer	heh	00:20
Macer	ds3: that's india's doing!	00:20
Macer	android does suck... i have a transformer :-/	00:21
ds3	the n900 UI is the only one that is useable	00:21
Macer	it's awful	00:21
Macer	yeah.. it sure is	00:21
Macer	i wish i could put maemo on my transformer	00:21
Macer	:(	00:21
Macer	or something.. anything else other than android	00:21
Macer	i was making the attempt a while back but couldn't figure it out	00:21
Sicelo	WP8 maybe	00:21
Macer	i should look into mer and see	00:21
ds3	on Fremantle, is the UI a customized matchbox or ?	00:21
Macer	i think it's just windows 8 ;)	00:21
* ShadowJK was thinking of getting a transformer		00:22
SpeedEvil	I was idly wondering about http://www.wopadusa.com/store/8/wopad-i9-9-7-rk-3066-dual-core-arm-cortex-a9-1-4ghz-cpu-ips-screen-tablet/	00:23
DocScrutinizer05	ds3: yes, matchbox, iirc	00:24
ds3	DocScrutinizer05: Hmmm. I'll need to debug more then. I made a copy of the filesystem and running matchbox from a chroot gives me something very different	00:25
Macer	don't	00:26
Macer	the transformer sucks	00:26
Macer	unless you get an older one and figure out how to put kde active on it	00:26
Macer	which from what i understand IS possible but i just don't have the skills :-/	00:26
Macer	i'm waiting for an easy image or something to do it	00:27
Sicelo	ds3: of course it's different. it's hildon on maemo, not matchbox per se .. although the concept is the same	00:27
Macer	i'd give anything to put something other than android on this transformer	00:27
Sicelo	where matchbox doesnt' allow multiple visible windows	00:27
SpeedEvil	Then there is the thorny issue of do you still want to run android apps on it.	00:27
Macer	no	00:28
Macer	i don't	00:28
Macer	if i can run xterm, ssh, and chromium, and have a gtalk client... i'm sold	00:28
Macer	i'm more curious how it would manage the power tho	00:28
DocScrutinizer05	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo >>It uses the Matchbox window manager, and the GTK-based Hildon framework as its GUI and application framework.<<	00:28
Macer	which seems to be .... usually what breaks ;)	00:28
Macer	when not running a stock OS	00:28
Sicelo	yeah, DocScrutinizer05, agreed	00:28
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Macer	Hildon (c)	00:29
Macer	:-P	00:29
Macer	ShadowJK: get an old tf101 and put active on it and tell me how you did it	00:29
Macer	bonus points if you get maemo on it	00:29
Macer	but i think the screen is a tad too big for maemo's 1 window a a time system	00:30
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: but matchbox gets shutdown before HD starts...?	00:32
DocScrutinizer05	I'd think I've seen sth like that,yes. But i'd assume HD is just another tweaked matchbox incarnation	00:33
vi__	bootup stuff->matchbox(request password/leave offline mode?)->close matchbox->HD.	00:34
vi__	I have NFC what HD REALLY is so yeah.	00:34
DocScrutinizer05	:nod: seems familar	00:34
freemangordon	MB2	00:34
freemangordon	that is what hidon-desktop is using (i.e. libmatchbox2)	00:35
freemangordon	whatever the difference with matchbox 1 is	00:35
DocScrutinizer05	aiui HD is the windows manager while matchbox is... err... X ??	00:35
DocScrutinizer05	s/windows/desktop/	00:36
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: aiui HD is the desktop manager while matchbox is... err... X ??	00:36
freemangordon	no, h-d (along with libmatchbox2) is a window manager	00:36
freemangordon	matchbox is WM too	00:36
freemangordon	and xserver-xorg is X	00:36
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DocScrutinizer05	whatever	00:36
DocScrutinizer05	I've no projects that need this detail in their wiki ATM	00:37
freemangordon	CSSU? :P	00:37
DocScrutinizer05	not really, for now	00:37
DocScrutinizer05	I guess you'll come up with some nifty plan that will make me learn all about that stuff, next week	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	00:38
freemangordon	next week? no, it was planned for the weekend ;)	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	dmmit	00:38
DocScrutinizer05	duh, your link.	00:39
DocScrutinizer05	my laptop froze and needed a reboot :-S	00:39
freemangordon	aah, yes. though I won;t be able to do any maemo related stuff till sunday	00:39
ShadowJK	Macer, how does running multiple apps work, does it work, can you have more than one browser window or tab or something?	00:39
freemangordon	DocScrutinizer05: so lets leave it for Sunday or next week, hopefully Pali will appear too	00:40
DocScrutinizer05	too late: here you are -> http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2012/06/role-linux-kernel-maintainer	00:41
Macer	in android?	00:41
Macer	yes heh	00:41
Macer	it works somewhat similar to maemo... all apps are full screen and multitask and are allowed background processes	00:42
Macer	at the very least i can say that android does multitask unlike ios and wp7	00:42
ShadowJK	does flash on youtube work, do you get 720 or 1080?	00:43
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Viltzu	zeq_laptop: I'm just wondering when you exactly are going to write the how to? I'm just wondering. There's no hurry.	00:46
vi__	Is ssh over wifi broken is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?	00:48
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vi__	Is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?	00:49
vi__	is what I meant.	00:49
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DocScrutinizer05	is what	01:00
vi__	Is using ssh, over a wifi connection on the harmattan operating system 'broken'?	01:01
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: it wasn't (and isn't) for the OS rev I got here	01:02
DocScrutinizer05	nfc about "newer" versions	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	ssh bp; is what I do all the time. I never ever physically toucht those devices	01:03
DocScrutinizer05	(bp like burning-platform)	01:04
DocScrutinizer05	which actually is the N950	01:04
DocScrutinizer05	thanks to MohammadAG for the christianizing	01:05
DocScrutinizer05	christening actually	01:06
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DocScrutinizer05	however I seem to recall I had to tweak something in sshd config eventually. Dunno if it was for adopting the local class-C, or for allowing remote login from larger internets	01:08
DocScrutinizer05	anyway it seems fact the IP range allowed to log in is restricted	01:09
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: but maybe ask that on #harmattan ?	01:09
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DocScrutinizer05	jr@HaleBopp:/btr77G> ssh -l root 192.168.1.49	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	BusyBox v1.19.0.git (Maemo 3:1.19-7+0m6) built-in shell (ash)	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.	01:12
DocScrutinizer05	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~#	01:12
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DocScrutinizer05	vi__: duh, wait. You'r enew to HARM, are you?	01:15
DocScrutinizer05	I think first of all you'll need to enable developer mode in settings, and install a bunch of tools	01:17
DocScrutinizer05	(will get installed the moment you enable DM)	01:17
DocScrutinizer05	then the joy of forgetting all you knew about linux/unix starts. Since nothing works like you'd expect, when it comes to rootshell on HARM	01:18
DocScrutinizer05	there's no sudo and su anymore, but devel-su and develsh	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	(still haven't wrapped my head around when you need which of them)	01:19
DocScrutinizer05	but hey, on fremantle we got root and sudo gainroot ;-P	01:20
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DocScrutinizer05	then you'll notice that root doesn't have any special powers at all, since all the permissions are linked to the executable now, not to the user	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	so root can't even kill user processes, or write to user's homedir	01:21
DocScrutinizer05	then you'll learn there are a shitload of files (in etc/ et al) that will cause MALF, a nasty way the system teaches you to never touch those files	01:22
DocScrutinizer05	edit /etc/init.d/$whatever ? don't even think about it!	01:23
RiD	er	01:24
NIN101	summary: ham sucks if you care about usual linux experience.	01:24
DocScrutinizer05	s/ham/HARM	01:25
DocScrutinizer05	but yeah	01:25
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vi__	DocScrutinizer05: wait, I cannot even edit the config files in /etc/?	01:28
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: what do you lose when you put it in 'open' mode?	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	~may-i-edit	01:29
infobot	mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	use dirs on this function, like /etc	01:29
DocScrutinizer05	/etc/events.d	01:30
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DocScrutinizer05	vi__: there's only one true openmode, and that will kill several of the deemed security-critical things like password storage etc	01:31
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vi__	This is sounding like an epic ballache,	01:31
vi__	^,/.	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	mount\|grep aegis	01:31
DocScrutinizer05	soory but my pastebin doesn't work yet, on this laptop, so...	01:32
vi__	So does inception totally blow aegis out of the water?	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# mount\|grep aegis	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/.positioningd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/.mms/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp-fpcd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /var/cache/timed/aegis type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:32
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /home/user/.slpgwd/layer type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	aegisfs on /etc/ssl/certs type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: not really	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	as you still have checksum-hashes on immutable/untouchable files	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	aiui	01:33
DocScrutinizer05	but you could install a new/edited version of a /etc/events.d/$whatever, with inception plsu the right tools, whatever those might be	01:34
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: are you fluent in any script language besides bash?	01:36
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, not really fluent	01:36
merlin1991	I've been thinking of building a sb based "autobuilder" just in case	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	I think I could hack up sth in python, though it'll look like my dog's arse	01:37
merlin1991	since I have everything that's needed on my server already :DS	01:37
merlin1991	-S	01:37
DocScrutinizer05	sure thing	01:37
vi__	Fuck those TMO haterz.	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	if only javispedro would show up every now and then	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: eh?	01:38
merlin1991	yeah, he showed up to quite a few of the obs meetings though	01:38
DocScrutinizer05	~seen javispedro	01:38
infobot	javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 2h 34m 30s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.	01:38
merlin1991	I guess if X-Fade finishes the obs work we could copy paste that to any server farm	01:38
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: infobot is not in #maemo-meeting	01:39
jacekowski	merlin1991: i've had an autobuilder	01:39
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	01:39
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: the CA thread on TMO is now getting personal.	01:39
* DocScrutinizer05 neither :-P		01:39
DocScrutinizer05	~tmo	01:39
infobot	somebody said tmo was http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TMO, or http://talk.maemo.org, or http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrestrial_Trunked_Radio#TMO. It's not T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.	01:39
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: thankfully I never read the tmo thread :D	01:40
merlin1991	jacekowski: any code you can share to build on?	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	hi jacekowski :-9	01:40
merlin1991	I guess for a proper maemo.org replacement we need a good web integration	01:40
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	01:40
merlin1991	jacekowski: also in general I'm interested how you did that :)	01:41
vi__	merlin1991: or a gun.	01:41
jacekowski	merlin1991: with a lot of effort	01:41
merlin1991	vi__: I don't follow	01:41
vi__	merlin1991: sorry, too much polish special brew.	01:42
merlin1991	hehe :D	01:42
vi__	merlin1991: I shall proceed to lurk.	01:42
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merlin1991	vi__: input is always welcome, though I prefer clear input ;)	01:42
jacekowski	merlin1991: buildme + reprepo	01:42
merlin1991	reprepro is awesome, though it only keeps one version	01:43
jacekowski	i don't think so	01:43
merlin1991	which would break the old maemo.org repo systen	01:43
jacekowski	hmm	01:43
merlin1991	s/en/em/	01:43
infobot	merlin1991 meant: which would break the old maemo.org repo system	01:43
jacekowski	reprepo can do multiple versions	01:43
merlin1991	how?	01:43
merlin1991	I asked over in #reprepro yesterday and the devs said no :D	01:43
jacekowski	hmmm	01:44
jacekowski	dunno then	01:44
jacekowski	i think it worked on mine	01:44
jacekowski	but i've got no way of testing it	01:44
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merlin1991	dpkg-scanpackages doesn't do multiple versions either	01:44
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: when things get personel on tromoox, we got chem\|st to fix this battle	01:44
jacekowski	i've tried using apt-ftparchive as well	01:44
merlin1991	and there ends my knowledge about apt-repo tools	01:44
jacekowski	anyways	01:44
merlin1991	did you have any kind of implementation for user uploads of source?	01:45
jacekowski	ssh	01:45
jacekowski	but it was only for me and few trusted users	01:45
merlin1991	jacekowski: I'm thinking about web form ...	01:45
jacekowski	and i didn't have to track it	01:45
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: got a link to the flame thread?	01:46
jacekowski	merlin1991: there are standard tools that use ssh	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	me? nah	01:46
jacekowski	merlin1991: dput	01:46
jacekowski	merlin1991: and dput is used all across other distros and stuff	01:46
DocScrutinizer05	I guess vi__got some	01:46
merlin1991	jacekowski: yeah, though that hardly would represent the known maemo.org interface :/	01:46
merlin1991	(but I use it for cssu uploads ;))	01:47
DocScrutinizer05	merlin1991: are you in mood for popcorn, eh?	01:47
jacekowski	merlin1991: maemo uses dput	01:47
merlin1991	jacekowski: we've got the webinterface aswell	01:47
merlin1991	which is even better documented	01:47
jacekowski	you don't need a lot of documentation for dput	01:48
merlin1991	yeah :D	01:48
jacekowski	http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#dput	01:48
merlin1991	though would you be interested to develop a maemo.org similar autobuilder based on any language?	01:48
merlin1991	I don't feel like doing it completely alone	01:48
DocScrutinizer05	why can't we use the original one?	01:49
merlin1991	just in case	01:49
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: funding isn't fixed for the future, and the maemo future doesn't look good	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	meh	01:49
DocScrutinizer05	the autobuilder script	01:49
merlin1991	aswell as the whole midgard system is a bit overkill for the average self paid root server	01:50
merlin1991	it incorporates everything maemo.org has :/	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	wut?	01:50
merlin1991	as far as I can tell it doesn't look quite modular	01:50
DocScrutinizer05	midgard does autobuilds?	01:50
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: for a proper replacement I'd like to have a running builder and at least hte package interface	01:51
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DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	01:51
merlin1991	the builder scripts might be independent, though they are heavily adjusted by X-Fade thus not exactly freely avaiable, and everything else is midgard	01:51
DocScrutinizer05	thought as much, modulo I don't see why X-Fade wouldn't want to share the autobuilder scripts	01:52
merlin1991	ture :D	01:52
merlin1991	ture	01:52
merlin1991	arf	01:52
merlin1991	true	01:52
DocScrutinizer05	lol	01:52
* DocScrutinizer05 invites merlin1991 for a Tschunk		01:53
merlin1991	I guess X-Fade would be happy to share them, but I fear they are written in something I'm not fluent in	01:53
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DocScrutinizer05	well, that's the least problem, no?	01:53
DocScrutinizer05	you can learn ;-)	01:53
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merlin1991	stufu ;)	01:53
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merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: what's a Tschunk though?	01:54
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki tschunk	01:54
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschunk (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject\|Mixed Drinks\|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced\|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox \| iba = \| name = Tschunk \| image = Tschunk cropped.jpg \| caption = \| type = cocktail \| flaming = \| rum = yes \| brandy = no \| served = \| garnish = \| drinkware = \| ingredients = 4-6 cl white rum or golden rum limes Club-Mate (if desired): brown sugar *ice \| prep = Dice limes, put them ...	01:54
Raimu	Yum.	01:54
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merlin1991	omfg contains Club-Mate	01:54
merlin1991	caffaine ftw :D	01:55
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merlin1991	we lost her :/	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	?	01:55
DocScrutinizer05	whomß	01:55
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DocScrutinizer05	?	01:55
merlin1991	infobot	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	o.O	01:56
merlin1991	[00:55:27] <-- infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)	01:56
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infobot	DocScrutinizer: infobot joined!	01:56
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v infobot		01:56
DocScrutinizer05	meh, Tim's hacky hour	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	~wb	01:56
infobot	thx	01:56
merlin1991	~botsnack	01:56
infobot	:), merlin1991	01:56
DocScrutinizer05	~seen timriker	01:57
infobot	timriker is currently on #ldstech #infobot, last said: 'hmm. I didn't get the jira email korman sent out. Perhaps I'm not on those lists?'.	01:57
merlin1991	wtf abill_uk actually has a sane argument on the ca thread	01:59
NIN101	the ca is popcorn.	01:59
DocScrutinizer05	seems a good tradition meanwhile: Tim /joins #infobot at Friday 23:00 UTC, and says ~die	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	;-)	02:00
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DocScrutinizer05	~+uptime	02:00
infobot	- Uptime for purl -	02:00
infobot	Now: 5m 5s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux	02:00
infobot	1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010	02:00
infobot	2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009	02:00
infobot	3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009	02:00
DocScrutinizer05	thanks purl	02:01
infobot	no worries, DocScrutinizer05	02:01
merlin1991	NIN101: I can't complain, I got a n950	02:01
DocScrutinizer05	traitor! ;-D	02:02
Sc0rpius	I should have one of those	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	welcome to #club950 anyway	02:03
DocScrutinizer05	which probably is the best thing about the whole device	02:04
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Macer	heh	02:04
NIN101	you deserve it, others don't (imo). Intransparent decissions and also not sure what to think that council members themselves got a device. I am not saying they don't deserve it, but it is kinda strange, because they are doing the decisions... :-)	02:04
Sc0rpius	in the meantime I'm still waiting for a proper replacement for the N900	02:04
Sc0rpius	and N9 is not.	02:04
Macer	didn't the scientist who developed lsd live to be like 110 or something?	02:04
Sc0rpius	and a device with Tizen is not either	02:04
Macer	Sc0rpius: it will never happen :(	02:05
Macer	the n900 is a one of a kind	02:05
Sc0rpius	a device with Mer isn't either.	02:05
DocScrutinizer05	NIN101: I'd argue every day that council needs a device for reference purposes	02:05
Macer	what's wrong with mer?	02:05
Sc0rpius	try it	02:05
Sc0rpius	and then ask the question again	02:05
Macer	i wanted to try to get it on the tf101	02:05
Macer	and install active	02:05
Macer	but don't know how :-/	02:05
NIN101	DocScrutinizer05: That's probably true.	02:06
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: there will never be device like that	02:06
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: there is no market for it	02:06
Sc0rpius	I guess	02:07
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: older people don't buy smartphones	02:07
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: so those will be happy with anything, maybe symbian	02:07
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: and kids want iphone	02:07
Sc0rpius	yeah	02:07
jacekowski	maybe android	02:07
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merlin1991	n900 was one of a kind, so much hw in one device, a update to todays standards would only include more ram, newer omap and nfc	02:07
jacekowski	merlin1991: and capacitive screen	02:08
jacekowski	merlin1991: with stylus, like in galaxy note	02:08
DocScrutinizer05	jacekowski: yeah, and both the elder and the kids already asked my "don't you eventually get yourself a smartphone instead of this thing?" X-P	02:08
jacekowski	that would be sweet	02:08
Sc0rpius	well I never use the stylus	02:08
vi__	jacekowski: nah, multi-touch resistive!	02:08
NIN101	(and glonass maybe)	02:08
Sc0rpius	I think Galaxy S series phones have better screen than the N900	02:08
Sc0rpius	but the only real good thing about the N900 was the OS (the hardware is crap actually)	02:08
jacekowski	vi__: resistive is soft	02:08
jacekowski	vi__: and it's easier to scratch than glass capacitive	02:09
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Sc0rpius	I hate that N900 doesn't have multitouch for instance	02:09
vi__	true	02:09
jacekowski	if you can do glass resistive i'll have it any day	02:09
jacekowski	but having glass screen is a priority for me	02:09
DocScrutinizer05	Sc0rpius: what should fremantle do with mt??	02:09
jacekowski	as i don't use any screen protectors or anything	02:09
Sc0rpius	but I really need an OS with 100% native executables in a phone.	02:09
merlin1991	well fm transmitter is quite awesome aswell	02:10
Sc0rpius	multitouch is important in games	02:10
Sc0rpius	and games are important in this business	02:10
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: you can do native on android	02:10
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Sc0rpius	do you know how much money the Angry Birds guys made?????	02:10
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: a lot	02:10
JakDaRippa	is anyone in here using fmms and tmobile in the US? having trouble with my configuration settings.	02:10
Sc0rpius	that's the amount of money I need	02:10
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: not as much as that farm game on facebook though	02:10
Sc0rpius	yeah!!	02:10
DocScrutinizer05	I don't give a flying F about AB	02:10
Sc0rpius	true	02:10
DocScrutinizer05	and even less about how much money they made with it	02:10
Sc0rpius	well I would love to have JUST ONE SINGLE IDEA for an app/game that I could make that amount of money	02:11
jacekowski	i wish i would have that kind of money	02:11
Sc0rpius	and never ever work again in my life	02:11
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: it's not a new idea	02:11
jacekowski	Sc0rpius: games like that existed before	02:11
* Woody14619 is off for the weekend..bye! :)		02:11
Sc0rpius	well but it's an very well implemented idea	02:11
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Sc0rpius	I didn't say it has to be an innovative idea	02:11
merlin1991	JakDaRippa: I fear currently this channel is made of old european guys talking about why current smartphones suck ;)	02:11
Sc0rpius	just a good one	02:11
DocScrutinizer05	seems you forgot N900 been the platform where they rolled out AB iirc	02:11
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DocScrutinizer05	so don't tell me AB needs mt	02:12
Sc0rpius	no	02:12
Sc0rpius	but the GOOD games do	02:12
jacekowski	not really	02:12
Sc0rpius	AB is not a good game, just an addictive one	02:12
jacekowski	i hate games on phones	02:12
jacekowski	i've tried	02:12
jacekowski	but multitouch control is painful	02:12
jacekowski	whatever you do	02:12
Sc0rpius	they are pretty useful in business meetings	02:12
jacekowski	accelerometer controll isn't perfect either	02:12
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jacekowski	mouse + keyboard	02:13
jacekowski	it's been like that since beggining of the time	02:13
jacekowski	and it will never change	02:13
JakDaRippa	merlin1991, well that sucks. i have a N900 that i will never get rid of. i think it's the best phone ever made. especially once i get everything working correctly.	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	joystick FTW	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	literally	02:14
DocScrutinizer05	JakDaRippa: sorry, no fmms here	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	~seen frals	02:16
infobot	frals is currently on #maemo #harmattan, last said: 'but afaik everything in the script will then be run as root'.	02:16
JakDaRippa	n/p...have a nice day	02:16
merlin1991	JakDaRippa: frals would be the guy responsible for fmms, thus he might be able to help	02:16
DocScrutinizer05	JakDaRippa: maybe frals is willing to help	02:17
DocScrutinizer05	duh, merlin1991 been faster :-D	02:17
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DocScrutinizer05	frals: ping ^^^	02:18
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freemangordon	zeq_laptop: I made some more progress with fennec rotation, unfortunately it is still not 100% ok. Will be off for the weekend, so will continue on sunday. If you find some spare time, please upload the source to garage.	02:23
* freemangordon waves		02:23
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merlin1991	freemangordon: did you change it to the usual listen for resize code, or does it still listen to the accelerometer directly?	02:25
DocScrutinizer05	for the OT-amusement: http://adiz0r.soup.io/post/193593866/Developers-designers-project-managers-QA-and-sysadmins	02:26
DocScrutinizer05	I quite obviously am classified as sysadmin by everybody ;-P	02:27
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: a business partner had a quite simlilar pic as a status message in skype :D	02:28
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm missing the catergory "users"	02:30
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: they are usually not wihthin your sw dev company ;)	02:30
DocScrutinizer05	sure	02:30
DocScrutinizer05	and can't tell apart devels from QA and sysadmins	02:31
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DocScrutinizer05	so the "as seen by users" row would probably just need one picture	02:32
DocScrutinizer05	maybe a group photo, similar to "village people"	02:33
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merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to devide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without	02:34
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merlin1991	s/devide/divide/	02:34
infobot	merlin1991 meant: DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to divide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without	02:34
Atarii	hahaha that pic is amzing	02:35
Atarii	amazing*	02:35
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Viltzu	I probably shouldn't remove gvfs on n900?	02:44
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Viltzu	Looks like it kind of impossible to even remove P	02:52
Hurrian	meh, fremantle system packaging is messed up, too many things that depend on one another	02:56
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DocScrutinizer05	Viltzu: afaik it's mandatory	03:12
DocScrutinizer05	Hurrian: indeed	03:13
Viltzu	DocScrutinizer05: Yeah I tought that too :P	03:13
DocScrutinizer05	that's the whole point about HAM	03:13
DocScrutinizer05	and MPR	03:13
Viltzu	Now this project thing is just 0.4 version numbers to succeed.	03:25
Viltzu	gcc-4.2 is too old. Need gcc-4.6 :P	03:25
Viltzu	0.4 version numbers away*	03:26
Viltzu	Okay that sentence is probably all messed up anyway.	03:26
Viltzu	Just waiting for the _laptop guy.	03:29
Viltzu	zeq_laptop	03:30
Viltzu	Where does sbox have gcc binary? O_o	04:03
Viltzu	No matter how I try to delete it it always works when I write "gcc" in terminal...	04:03
Viltzu	I want it vanished.	04:03
DocScrutinizer51	chmod -x $(which gcc)	04:05
Viltzu	uhm? you mean like chmod -x $(gcc-4.2) or what?	04:07
Viltzu	Oh wait hmm	04:07
Viltzu	Okay not. asd.	04:07
DocScrutinizer51	no, I meant exavtly ehat I wrote	04:08
DocScrutinizer51	exactly what*	04:08
DocScrutinizer51	maybe a-x	04:09
Viltzu	what?	04:10
Viltzu	But well not working.	04:10
DocScrutinizer51	errr	04:10
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DocScrutinizer51	when you're root and it's not working, then a plain gcc neither does	04:11
Viltzu	in scratchbox I have done apt-get remove gcc gcc-4.2	04:11
Viltzu	it removed them from /usr/bin	04:11
Viltzu	but when I write "gcc" in terminal it still works and uses 4.2.	04:11
Viltzu	It's taking it from scratchbox/compilers/bin? ;U	04:12
Viltzu	or where. oh gaawd.	04:12
DocScrutinizer51	well, after # chmod a-x $(which gcc) it wont anymore	04:12
Viltzu	chmod: too few arguments	04:13
DocScrutinizer51	unless gcc is a shell alias	04:13
Viltzu	well gcc is a symlink or whatever	04:14
Viltzu	goes to gcc-4.2	04:14
Viltzu	afaik.	04:14
Viltzu	But yeah chmod says too few arguments	04:14
DocScrutinizer51	type gcc	04:14
Viltzu	and?	04:14
DocScrutinizer51	and enter	04:14
Viltzu	and?	04:14
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Viltzu	It runs gcc. (4.2)	04:15
DocScrutinizer51	type: type gcc<enter>	04:15
KaffeeJunky123	what's the easiest way to crosscompile qt applications for maemo?	04:15
Viltzu	So you don't know what I should do? :)	04:15
Viltzu	Haven't you asked it already.	04:16
Viltzu	or deja vu or you are a bot. asd.	04:16
DocScrutinizer51	~ # type echo	04:16
DocScrutinizer51	echo is a shell builtin	04:16
Viltzu	ah	04:17
Viltzu	gcc is hashed (/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc)	04:17
Viltzu	so it is taking it from there.. mm.	04:17
DocScrutinizer51	which gcc	04:18
Viltzu	mm what? gcc runs version 4.2.	04:18
Viltzu	:u	04:18
DocScrutinizer51	type: which gcc<enter>	04:18
Viltzu	Oh so you were serious when you told me to write exactly as you said.	04:19
Viltzu	Wait a sec.	04:19
Viltzu	Okay now when I did chmod a-x $(which gcc)	04:20
Viltzu	it says changing permissions of '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc': Operation not permitted	04:20
Viltzu	Oh right, as root. Not inside of scratchbox.	04:22
Viltzu	:>	04:22
DocScrutinizer51	type: sudo chroot a-x €(which gcc)	04:22
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Viltzu	altough outside of scratchbox it would do it to wrong gcc.	04:22
DocScrutinizer51	noooo, not outside of SB!	04:22
Viltzu	ye ye I got it already.	04:22
Viltzu	sudo is just yelling "must be setuid root"	04:23
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DocScrutinizer51	aah, messybox	04:23
Viltzu	what?	04:23
Viltzu	:D	04:23
DocScrutinizer51	try: su	04:24
Viltzu	Don't have.	04:24
DocScrutinizer51	try: root	04:24
Viltzu	nope	04:24
DocScrutinizer51	try: sudo gainroot	04:24
Viltzu	nope (must be setuid root)	04:25
DocScrutinizer51	dang	04:25
DocScrutinizer51	try: fakeroot	04:25
Viltzu	yes.	04:25
Viltzu	works. And then?	04:25
DocScrutinizer51	chmod a-x /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc	04:26
Viltzu	Okay. which gcc would work too. (returns that path)	04:26
DocScrutinizer51	might	04:27
Viltzu	gcc works still.	04:27
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DocScrutinizer51	dafaq	04:27
Viltzu	Should I exit this fakeroot thing somehow?	04:27
DocScrutinizer51	type: id	04:27
Viltzu	uid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),105,119,122,1000(maemo),1001	04:28
DocScrutinizer51	type: exit	04:28
DocScrutinizer51	type: id	04:28
DocScrutinizer51	type: rehash	04:29
Viltzu	uid=1000(maemo) gid=1000(maemo) and the rest is same.	04:29
Viltzu	command not found	04:29
DocScrutinizer51	type: ls -l $(which gcc)	04:29
Viltzu	Can't I just remove/rename compilers/bin/gcc as a root outside of sbox?	04:29
DocScrutinizer51	sb is a chroot	04:30
DocScrutinizer51	so: no	04:30
Viltzu	lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Oct 28 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc -> sb_gcc_wrapper	04:30
DocScrutinizer51	dang	04:30
DocScrutinizer51	mv /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc_away	04:32
DocScrutinizer51	maybe need fakeroot again	04:32
Viltzu	I have a feeling that will not work. Should I fak...	04:32
Viltzu	yes.	04:32
Viltzu	permission denied :u	04:33
DocScrutinizer51	o.O	04:33
DocScrutinizer51	well, anyway you probably should edit sb_gcc_wrapper in the end	04:35
Viltzu	ok.... so what I should do? :>	04:35
DocScrutinizer51	to point to your new gcc4-6	04:35
DocScrutinizer51	or just wait til somebody with a clue takes over	04:36
Viltzu	uhm. I'm waiting.	04:36
DocScrutinizer51	I'm actually lost in this sbox djungle	04:36
DocScrutinizer51	I'd have tought when you do fakeroot; apt-get remove gcc	04:37
DocScrutinizer51	in sbox	04:37
DocScrutinizer51	it should kill your gcc	04:37
Viltzu	it will remove just /usr/bin/gcc but thats useless :P	04:38
Viltzu	though I haven't done it as fakeroot	04:38
Viltzu	would that change anything+	04:38
Viltzu	?*	04:38
DocScrutinizer51	sure	04:38
Viltzu	Nope.	04:38
DocScrutinizer51	I dunno which gcc is used in sbox, some ARM gcc, or some x86 sbox specific gcc, or even your PC's gcc	04:42
DocScrutinizer51	you should check in sb_gcc_wrapper what that does	04:42
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DocScrutinizer51	or wait until somebody kicks in here who has a clue already	04:43
DocScrutinizer51	aiui freemangordon should already have done all this	04:43
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DocScrutinizer51	he will be back on Sunday iirc	04:44
Viltzu	k.. ;u	04:46
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Viltzu	Okay no need to get rid of that thing anymore.	05:19
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Macer	wayland inc. bought apple	06:55
Macer	in 2020 when apple was on the brink of bankruptcy	06:55
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Hurrian	...it seems that the CA results thread on TMO got pretty ugly	07:33
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freemangordon	Hurrian:become? It's been that way for the past few days.	08:37
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MohammadAG	morning, the situation on tmo is bad	11:43
Neutron__	what do you mean by bad?	11:49
NIN101	the CA	11:50
Hurrian	it's awful, really.	11:51
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Hurrian	side note, I have noticed that abill_uk is back, and stirring up noise (not the good kind) on TMO once again	12:00
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jonwil	Finally found a repair place that can fix my N900 :)	12:37
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SpeedEvil	:)	12:44
jonwil	Going to take a couple weeks for the parts to arrive though	12:48
jonwil	I will keep using my phone in the mean time	12:49
jonwil	and just be careful of the broken front bezel	12:49
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merlin1991	gotta love http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226087&postcount=283	14:19
Sicelo	Lol.	14:22
NIN101	let's see how this mess develops.	14:24
vi__	It is not pretty. Things are getting personal now.	14:26
merlin1991	and I still don't see why people are so worked up	14:26
vi__	merlin1991: because they did not win.	14:26
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merlin1991	Ie the council members shouldn't get free stuff was discussed on the mailing list long before the submission period started	14:27
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vi__	merlin1991: what was the conclusion to the discussion?	14:27
merlin1991	it's fine	14:27
merlin1991	int other words not what the people in the thread claim	14:28
Viltzu	hurr	14:30
merlin1991	see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-May/005259.html and the follow ups	14:30
Viltzu	When I'm doing make it will search headers and why not from /opt/maemo/usr/include when it should be getting them fron /usr/include	14:31
Viltzu	What to do?	14:31
merlin1991	Viltzu: did you move the hearders there by hand?	14:32
merlin1991	or did they get installed there?	14:32
Viltzu	They were installed there	14:32
Viltzu	I'm using tanners gcc-4.4	14:32
NIN101	of course the people who got one won't complain. I didn't even apply (so it should be kinda neutral), but my main point of criticism are the intransparent decisions. For some, it's obvious why they deserve one, but for others, it's not. One sentence in the wiki about the why's is apparently to much to ask for, and no, I am not going to read tons of messed up threads on TMO where a dicsussion took place. I also doubt the CA will help in saving	14:32
NIN101	maemo, at least fremantle.	14:32
merlin1991	also "make" does not search for headers	14:32
vi__	could you make aegis look at a copy of the file system somewhere else all the while editing the real /etc/?	14:33
vi__	NIN101: what do you think will be the result of listing why a persons achievments are not good enough?	14:34
Viltzu	merlin1991: well yeah. But what I should now do? Should I just cp to the right place. I tried to create symlink for the dir to the right place but then it says Too many symbolic links :P	14:34
merlin1991	which header exactly are you missing?	14:34
Viltzu	http://viltzu.kapsi.fi/output.out	14:34
Viltzu	And those can be found from /usr/include/c++/4.4/ and so on.	14:35
merlin1991	Viltzu: build the make file with the verbosity flag from cmake, so that you see the actual call to gcc	14:36
NIN101	vi_: some kind of transparency.	14:36
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Viltzu	merlin1991, set(CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE on) in CMakeLists.txt?	14:40
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Viltzu	http://viltzu.kapsi.fi/output	14:43
Viltzu	örh.	14:44
merlin1991	I'd check what /home/maemo/cbE/src/precomp.h really includes on line 7	14:44
merlin1991	because the gcc call contains no hint to opt	14:44
merlin1991	unless the gcc itself has fubar opt searchpaths it has to be in the sources	14:45
Viltzu	#include <map> on line 7.	14:45
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merlin1991	Viltzu: hm, CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS ?	14:47
Viltzu	wa?	14:48
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merlin1991	the environment variables CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS are read by gcc aswell	14:48
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Viltzu	Uhm. That doesn't say really anything to me :)	14:49
merlin1991	do echo $CFLAGS	14:50
merlin1991	and echo $CPPFLAGS	14:50
merlin1991	and see if they contain anything odd	14:50
Viltzu	is that odd that they are empty?	14:50
merlin1991	no that is normal :)	14:50
Viltzu	ok.	14:50
merlin1991	hm then it has to be your gcc :/	14:50
Viltzu	I'm using tanners gcc 4.4. Added the repo and installed via apt-get.	14:51
merlin1991	I've never used it, so I don't have any hands on experience	14:51
merlin1991	also lunch	14:51
Viltzu	k.	14:51
vi__	NIN101: so if it was published "nitroid has had 0 positive effect on maemo community therefore coder does not win". Do you think there would be no arguments?	14:51
NIN101	there would be. But at least we would know the WHYs. WHY someone got one, and why another didn't.	14:54
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DocScrutinizer05	who cares?	15:06
DocScrutinizer05	look - if I had applied I would know for sure about the true reasons why I wouldn't have received one	15:07
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DocScrutinizer05	so for the "why not" it's usually very obvious. For the "why anybody at all received this 'Award' ?" I already elaborated yesterday with woody that I fail to see the point of this whole action/mess, and in my opinion council better had kept the whole pool for handing out spare devices on a by-demand basis	15:10
NIN101	my main point is: without reasons I can think this is a farce. Why should I believe the opposite?	15:11
DocScrutinizer05	it is, you don't need to think opposite	15:11
vi__	NIN101: Without discussing individual cases we are 'beating around the bush'	15:11
jacekowski	if it were up to me, there would be no CA and no problems	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	exactly	15:12
jacekowski	maemo is pretty much a dead platform	15:12
jacekowski	who cares	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	meego is	15:12
vi__	So is amiga OS, what is your point?	15:12
DocScrutinizer05	NIN101: on no DDP ever the reasons been discussed in public - we all agreed this would be useless public bashing for all those who failed	15:14
NIN101	well.	15:15
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kwtm	I've had 2 cases now where I did not get a chance to recharge the N900 before it shut down due to low battery, and now the battery appears useless (tried recharging it via another N900 and from external Nokia charger, with no response). Is this a known phenomenon or should I expect to be able to have usable batteries after N900 shuts down from battery low?	15:16
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jacekowski	kwtm: plug it in into usb charger	15:17
jacekowski	kwtm: and wait few hours	15:17
DocScrutinizer05	and honestly, you'll always find "better" rationale and winners in a public aftermath than those who did the hard job of selecting came up with. and it helps exactly nothing but adds tention and noise to community	15:17
kwtm	jacekowski: Hmm... I had plugged it into charge for a while, and the charger light even changed to blue from pink, so I thought it was fully charged. Wonder if it's the N900 itself. Maybe I can try a "universal" charger instead of Nokia's.	15:18
DocScrutinizer05	err WUT	15:18
vi__	blue->pink???	15:19
DocScrutinizer05	yeah ?????	15:19
kwtm	no pink -> blue	15:19
vi__	wtf even more.	15:19
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DocScrutinizer05	there's neither blue nor pink involved in charging indication	15:19
kwtm	Ah. When you say USB charger you mean the N900 itself? I was talking about an external charger.	15:20
DocScrutinizer05	the supposed colors are amber (red + green) and green (just green)	15:20
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kwtm	I'm going to see if I can dig up an alternate battery for my N900, just to prove to myself it's the battery, and then I'll fiddle with the battery.	15:21
DocScrutinizer05	if you get blue and pink, it seems you got a pre-summit device with messed up indicator LED hardwiring	15:22
DocScrutinizer05	that got flashed with standard software	15:22
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: that doesnt exist.	15:24
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DocScrutinizer05	you can look up the actual swap of colors in lp5523.c for yourself	15:24
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vi__	Possibly a second hand device with a modified MCE.ini	15:24
DocScrutinizer05	dafaq	15:24
DocScrutinizer05	you can't modify mce.ini in a way that even NOLO would change to pink	15:25
DocScrutinizer05	not to mention hardwired amber of emergency charging	15:25
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, resetting mce.ini to defaults is a sane suggestion :-)	15:26
DocScrutinizer05	we've seen devices with smoked-up green in 3-color LED	15:27
DocScrutinizer05	which gave some strange notification colors	15:27
DocScrutinizer05	of course	15:27
DocScrutinizer05	anyway	15:28
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: you shouldn't deplete battery til emergency shutdown	15:28
DocScrutinizer05	you shouldn't try to reboot device with depleted battery.	15:28
DocScrutinizer05	and yes, eventually battery will just cease to work in very much the way you descriobed	15:29
DocScrutinizer05	no, any "universal charger" usually will way more likely kill your battery than treat it nice	15:30
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: I dunno what acme-bat-apps and supadupa-kernels incl borked modules you got installed on your N900. I suggest: a) get fresh and charged BL-5J, FLASH your N900 to stock kernel and no too 1337 apps, try using it in a normal way, see if that pans out	15:32
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DocScrutinizer05	b) try charging the supposedly broken battery in external charger and see what operational time it gives you in N900 till shutdown. Use bq27200-detail.sh script to produce a nice log of battery current and voltage, come back here and offer that log for analysis	15:35
zeq_laptop	Hi guys!	15:39
vi__	hello.	15:39
vi__	good morning squire.	15:40
zeq_laptop	Hello vi__	15:40
zeq_laptop	afternoon here :)	15:40
vi__	~UGT	15:42
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html	15:42
zeq_laptop	thanks infobot	15:42
zeq_laptop	didn't know that	15:42
zeq_laptop	mornig vi__ :)	15:43
vi__	:)	15:43
zeq_laptop	s/mornig/morning/	15:43
infobot	zeq_laptop meant: morning vi__ :)	15:43
zeq_laptop	typing like it's the morning!	15:43
zeq_laptop	;)	15:43
merlin1991	DocScrutinizer05: in case you missed it, his led colours were not from the n900 but from an external charger :D	15:46
DocScrutinizer05	aaah	15:46
DocScrutinizer05	damn, was searching WTF this pre-summit-color-swap #ifdef been ;-P	15:46
DocScrutinizer05	extremely funny detail you can learn from proofreading driver sources	15:47
DocScrutinizer05	I'm afraid they refctored it out in later upstreamed versions	15:48
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Raimu	Mmm... pink n900...	15:50
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DocScrutinizer05	http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source/drivers/i2c/chips/lp5521.c#31	15:53
DocScrutinizer05	maybe was on N810	15:54
vi__	merlin1991: wait..what?	15:55
vi__	such a minor piece of information.	15:55
vi__	We have failed as engineers.	15:55
vi__	We assumed he was talking about the n900 LED.	15:56
vi__	You know what they say; when you assume, you make a total cock of yourself.	15:56
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DocScrutinizer06	dman reconnects	15:58
DocScrutinizer06	spaming questions relating to a clearly defined hw topic with random shit drawn from unrelated other hw isn't exactly helping	15:58
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DocScrutinizer05	anyway, vi_ you might enjoy this mxr line ref I posted above	16:02
DocScrutinizer05	31 #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG 32 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM 0x04 33 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM 0x02 34 #else 35 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM 0x02 36 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM 0x04 37 #endif	16:02
vi__	#ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG	16:02
DocScrutinizer05	obviously for some prototypes they swapped red and blue LED	16:03
DocScrutinizer05	and I seem to recall somebody inside NOK told me this been for the pre-summit N900, where maybe they still used lp5521.ko to drive the indicator LED	16:05
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: your "that doesn't exist" based on hard facts?	16:09
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DocScrutinizer05	vi__: you know pre-summit device owners always been supposed to NOT flash standard software, and rather wait for the special build that Nokia may or may not provoide for their very special devices	16:10
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how such bord specific defines belong into $chipdriver.c		16:19
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DocScrutinizer05	I mean it's not like as the chip had written "RED" to pin4 and "BLUE" to pin5. This may change massively for any other board using LP5523	16:20
DocScrutinizer05	clear case of vendor specific driver sources that aren't exactly fit for upstreaming	16:21
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: I was partially joking.	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	not that the LP5523 driver was any good for upstreaming anyway, regarding the very partial implementation of chip properties	16:22
DocScrutinizer05	LP5523 can do iirc 96 program steps, "partitioned" in arbitrary ways between the 3 engines. lp5523.c allows a mere 16 steps per engine, wasting the other 48 steps	16:23
DocScrutinizer05	(actually wasting only 47, as they use one step for default LED mapping/muxing)	16:24
DocScrutinizer05	pretty retarded design for a generic upstream linux LP5523 driver	16:25
MohammadAG	#ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG <-- lololol	16:27
MohammadAG	anyway, who wants to fix tmo's community awards thread	16:27
MohammadAG	it's going downhill, fast	16:27
MohammadAG	I expect the next meetup to be a riot	16:27
* DocScrutinizer05 glances at the dusty yellow end of his ToDo list and spots "fix lp5523.c to allow full use of all chip features, esp. the doubled program step storage space"		16:28
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: ping chem\|st	16:28
Hurrian	MohammadAG, how do you calm down angry TMOers who want their phones?	16:28
zeq_laptop	finally managed to build gcc-linaro-4.7-2012.06 ARM cross-compiler for scratchbox. (only x86_64 atm, might need an actual x86 distro to build 32bit; canadian-cross doesn't seem to be working...)	16:28
MohammadAG	this isn't a mod thing DocScrutinizer05	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	16:29
MohammadAG	it needs to be handled well by the council	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	so what you gonna do now, boy?	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	LOL	16:29
MohammadAG	Hurrian, tbh I see why they're angry	16:29
DocScrutinizer05	I'm way more concerned about http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226178&postcount=298	16:30
MohammadAG	I'm more concerned about the theme he's using	16:30
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DocScrutinizer05	no, same here, with my theme	16:31
DocScrutinizer05	I suspect a fsckup in mysql	16:31
MohammadAG	Hurrian, you don't fix this, you cancel results and change judges	16:31
MohammadAG	I suspect a fuck up in viewthread.php	16:31
MohammadAG	or the fact he's french	16:31
DocScrutinizer05	haha	16:31
MohammadAG	I kid, I kid	16:32
Hurrian	MohammadAG, probably changed email and didnt confirm	16:32
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: so speak up, it's apitty a lot of people do not speak up	16:32
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, it's no use	16:32
vi__	ZogG_laptop: It is no use. You will get flamed in half.	16:32
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: why not?	16:32
MohammadAG	exactly that	16:32
ZogG_laptop	vi__: i tried to be general and ask straight question	16:33
vi__	ZogG_laptop: which was?	16:33
MohammadAG	regardless this won't be fixed	16:33
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/post_thanks.php?do=post_thanks_add&p=1226165&securitytoken=1340453078-7065ec7e993a2f6813761f1f7b1d8c8415 works when I post it. same with s/p=1226165/p=1226193/ doesn't	16:33
* vi__ gingerly approaches the can of worms.		16:33
ZogG_laptop	but i was ignored and council and defenders instead of answering just picked up those who was less reasonable and used it to put all of us in same boat to call all of us trolls =)	16:33
MohammadAG	I'm thinking of submitting something to the Qt 5 awards	16:34
MohammadAG	or the app awards	16:34
MohammadAG	and if I win, give the N9 I won there to someone	16:34
DocScrutinizer05	I'm thinking of declaring maemo.org community officially entered lunatic state at 2012-06-20	16:34
ZogG_laptop	vi__: how it is possible that the same competition can be judged by peple in list	16:35
ZogG_laptop	vi__: it's not about if they worth or not	16:35
DocScrutinizer05	maybe even a few weeks before	16:35
Hurrian	DocScrutinizer05, the entire community awards thing has been hectic for maemo.org	16:35
ZogG_laptop	but most answeres were personal and about how worth they are... but it's not related	16:35
jaska	make troll.maemo.org a cname for talk.maemo.org?	16:35
MohammadAG	it's not right	16:36
MohammadAG	I agree about that	16:36
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ZogG_laptop	jaska: it's easy to call troll anyone who has his own point of view and try to prove it? than other person is not less troll than first as there are always two sides of coins	16:36
MohammadAG	whether they deserve it or not, you can't have judges in a competition	16:36
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DocScrutinizer05	I stated my "official" POV regarding the whole CA several times, won't repeat	16:37
jaska	zogg: i wasnt referring to any specific conversation. just think that the name would fit.	16:37
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: than speak up, they just say it's only 4 people and they ignore reasonable things and answer for those who just really not releated	16:37
DocScrutinizer05	council need and always had all hardware for reference purposes	16:37
ZogG_laptop	DocScrutinizer05: what reference?	16:38
vi__	Easy. The council win automatically as they have been selected as the community champions. The rest of the loot goes to whomever they decide should win.	16:38
DocScrutinizer05	mixing this up with a CA is a terrible idea, but no worries as the whole CA been a rather toxic idea in itself	16:38
ZogG_laptop	vi__: how is it possible, i didn't choose them as a lot of people who don't want to be in politics	16:38
ZogG_laptop	as well as i think there are more worthy and reasonable people to be council(not all curent memebers but few)but they understand those resposobilities and don't want to take them, as others who want don't understand them	16:40
vi__	ZogG_laptop: no, however they were elected fairly.	16:40
ZogG_laptop	look at MohammadAG he even don't want to speak up, as he doesn't want to ennter politics here, as a lot of reasonable people don't too. but i just feel if i don't speak up no one will, than it would pass like it was okay	16:41
ZogG_laptop	vi__: so? how is it related? than lets make community award judged by memebers	16:41
ZogG_laptop	those two things that they were elected as council do not related	16:41
ZogG_laptop	and if, those people to judge	16:42
ZogG_laptop	i would never say if i'm elected i worth to win in community.	16:42
MohammadAG	vi_, it was tough choice, 5 got elected and 5 got chosen	16:42
ZogG_laptop	it's like your work manager would give price to himself	16:42
ZogG_laptop	what? he is mamanger already means he works harder than others and is promoted so all money prices would go to him automaticaly?	16:43
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: hm?	16:43
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05, we barely got a council this year iirc	16:43
DocScrutinizer05	I honestly think we need a way to vote "void"	16:44
DocScrutinizer05	if amount of void votes > amount of votes for a candidate, the candidate won't get elected	16:44
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MohammadAG	then typedef Sam void; typedef Jill void, typedef John void and we have a new council	16:45
DocScrutinizer05	if that results in _no_ council at all, after elections, so be it	16:45
ZogG_laptop	vi__: for example few people think you don't deserve, but i don't really care, as this is their choice and always someone will think it's not right, so i'm neutral here whenever i think you have right or not. But self judging is something different	16:45
MohammadAG	tbh, itsnotabigtruck should get one	16:46
MohammadAG	inception, although hated by some, was useful	16:46
DocScrutinizer05	yep	16:46
MohammadAG	plus he's helpful on IRC	16:46
FIQ\|n900	hm... a council with 1 attending	16:46
DocScrutinizer05	yep	16:46
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MohammadAG	I usually don't vote people up, but since he's not here :P	16:46
DocScrutinizer05	anyway, this cheese is eaten	16:46
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MohammadAG	e-yes might have helped with NITDroid, but I'm not sure if that merits a device	16:47
MohammadAG	nothing personal, it's just not the _maemo_ community	16:47
DocScrutinizer05	indeed	16:47
MohammadAG	and without referencing names, closed source people shouldn't get a device	16:47
ZogG_laptop	DocScrutinizer05: today when everything falling down we need few people to lead community, but here i mean dids and not talking and showing how important them. it's mostly come from people that don't show themselve too much and not seen too much. I think a good example is X-Fade. i don't see him active lately in communication, but i know he makes a lot contribution with repos and cobs and other stuff	16:47
MohammadAG	it's COMMUNITY!! awards	16:47
vi__	ZogG_laptop: what a load of shit.	16:48
vi__	The employees do not CHOOSE the manager.	16:48
MohammadAG	they get fired if they don't? :P	16:48
vi__	Nokia, yeah.	16:48
vi__	NOKIA decided who would choose the winners.	16:49
vi__	The people who provided the prizes.	16:49
ZogG_laptop	vi__: sometimes people change after they got promoted btw and in normal company the promoting people gather data about person from co-wokers	16:49
vi__	ZogG_laptop: the analogy is invalid. Drop it.	16:49
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, there's nothing you could do now	16:50
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MohammadAG	if anything would make you feel better, submit an app to the app awards and give your N9 to someone else	16:50
ZogG_laptop	vi__: it's make me angry and amusing, that you think i'm less stuborn than you, as i think it is the same example	16:50
MohammadAG	I'm actually thinking of doing that for itsnotabigtruck	16:50
MohammadAG	nothing personal, his shit helped me, his shit can't be submitted to those awards	16:51
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: actually i thought of it, as i should recieve N9 soon on other award	16:51
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MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, you won in community awards?	16:51
MohammadAG	I never memorized the list tbh	16:51
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: nope	16:52
MohammadAG	the only problem is I can't submit for an N950 in the Qt awards	16:52
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i don't worth it	16:52
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, then keep the device if you win it	16:52
MohammadAG	I'd give it away cause I have one	16:52
MohammadAG	and itsnotabigtruck has an N9	16:52
MohammadAG	no use in giving him anothero ne	16:52
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i read Estel submition, i'm in the same position as ± Estel position, when there are those who worth way more	16:52
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: you can take n9 and send n950 as well	16:53
MohammadAG	again, I don't like saying X doesn't deserve something	16:53
ZogG_laptop	but the problem you want it as dev kit and not phone	16:53
MohammadAG	barely use it as a phone tbh	16:53
MohammadAG	have an iPhone for that	16:54
MohammadAG	or a Lumia, which I barely use	16:54
MohammadAG	I wonder if anyone needs an N900	16:54
MohammadAG	considering sending one away	16:54
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i know i don't. i think i helped a bit and tried to be always helpful and straight, but it's should come from any community memeber. Just their knowledge is different and they can't always code. But there are people like you or pali or itsnotthatbigtruck, who just deserve it, and they do not only a lot but opens source and for free. that's who deserve	16:55
DocScrutinizer05	it's incredible how such a silly giveaway is poisoning maemo.org community. In my book all the free stuff in apps and knowledge is 10000 times more precious and appreciable than those 2 dozen devices that everybody gets worked up about now. a sad perspective on state of this community in those tough days	16:55
ZogG_laptop	they don't search for glorry or something	16:55
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: i want n900	16:55
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ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: mine got broken	16:56
ZogG_laptop	but on other hand if you leave maemo.... o_O	16:56
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: send it to robbiethe1st please!	16:56
MohammadAG	I have two N900s	16:56
* ZogG_laptop is scared with less people like MohammadAG left in community =(		16:56
MohammadAG	one's mine and one's a DDP	16:56
MohammadAG	the DDP one is in near new condition	16:57
MohammadAG	well, technically it's just opened from the box and used for three months	16:57
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: than if you don't send to robbiethe1st, i'll be more than glad as mine is broken	16:57
DocScrutinizer05	there are a few really valuable developers that recently got hurt by their N900 breaking	16:57
ZogG_laptop	i would have a chance to finish the very first app i started and didn't finish	16:57
MohammadAG	but never left my desk, I don't take it out or anything since I don't _own_ it	16:57
FIQ\|n900	speaking of new N900s, I should go and get one from second-hand soon as mine is starting to fall apart	16:58
vi__	ZogG_laptop: If you cannot for a second consider the notion that you are wrong, then it is pointless to discuss anything.	16:58
DocScrutinizer05	FIQ\|n900: good plan :-D	16:59
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DocScrutinizer05	I'm doing that since several months now	16:59
ZogG_laptop	vi__: but again you think i'm wrong and i think i'm right. why do you think you are the right one here =)	16:59
vi__	ZogG_laptop: That is not what I said bro slice.	16:59
kwtm	Can anyone point me to how to send a text message (SMS) by command-line? Presumably it starts with "dbus-send -bla bla bla MyTextMessage" or something ...	16:59
vi__	kwtm: N900?	17:00
kwtm	vi__: Sorry, yes, talking about the N900 here.	17:00
FIQ\|n900	there's a dedicated application for this	17:00
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kwtm	Not the external battery charger.	17:00
vi__	kwtm: there is a program (python script) called sms-send.	17:00
FIQ\|n900	whatever it was named	17:00
vi__	It is in the repos.	17:00
FIQ\|n900	ohh, that	17:00
kwtm	Ok. I will check it out. But I actually want to put the command into my shell script (actually my vimscript calls it but that's a minor detail).	17:01
kwtm	I suppose I can look over the python script to figure out how they did it. Thanks for the pointers.	17:01
vi__	kwtm you can invoke sms-send through bash.	17:01
FIQ\|n900	isn't that kinda the point with sms-send? :P	17:02
vi__	i.e. sms-send <telephone number> <your message here>	17:02
vi__	^/bash/sh	17:03
kwtm	I see. Ok, will look into that. I am trying to get my repositories set up, actually, via command line so I will do that first ...	17:03
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ZogG_laptop	vi__: that is exactly what. as you say If you cannot for a second consider the ....	17:06
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ZogG_laptop	i do considered both sides and took mine	17:07
vi__	ZogG_laptop: how corrupt of you.	17:09
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: ~phone-control	17:09
* FIQ\|n900 see flames		17:09
FIQ\|n900	s/see/sees/	17:09
vi__	To chose your argument over anothers. For true transparency you should have automatically discounted your own argument.	17:10
kwtm	DocScrutinizer05: Thanks; I found that page on http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS . Do I understand correctly that the entire Python program is there and I don't need to install anything else? Because I'm in the middle of configuring my new N900 I can't install packages like sms-send without messing with /etc/sources.list.d right now.	17:12
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DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	yes :-D	17:12
DocScrutinizer05	the 3rd one seems most complete and nice one	17:13
DocScrutinizer05	>>There's also a python script that uses D-Bus instead from http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=558430&postcount=57:<< <- this one	17:16
DocScrutinizer05	at least I already used this one and tweaked it for SMSCB rcv, tested to work	17:16
kwtm	god I LOOOOVE this N900!	17:17
kwtm	Disclaimer: it's still a piece of crap. But it's the BEST piece of crap there is in the world! :) :)	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	lol	17:17
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: wazzup buddy?	17:17
kwtm	Looking over the phone control thing, I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the things I haven't had a chance to make my phone do.	17:18
kwtm	Holy cow, remote control my phone by SMS!? (And not that "make it play some music" crap from the Android app store.)	17:18
vi__	kwtm you wait till you discover dbus-scripts and dbus cron. You are going to shit yourself.	17:18
DocScrutinizer05	there's an app for that	17:18
DocScrutinizer05	;-d	17:18
kwtm	Yeah, I'm going to have to look into that cron thing ... I'm going to have to use anacron because my phone keeps shutting off by accident (delays in locking screen due to swapping, before I slip it in my pocket and have something bump the "turn off phone" onscreen button)	17:19
vi__	kwtm: You are now starting to understand why for maemo 'appz' are mostly redundant.	17:19
vi__	kwtm: dbuscron is...different.	17:20
kwtm	Yeah. I spent a lot of time on this last year when I got my phone, and finally managed to dump the built-in contacts app and just make phone calls from within Vim.	17:20
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kwtm	Then I couldn't spend more time on it and the programming got left by the wayside.	17:20
DocScrutinizer05	and anacron is... :-/. Use alarmed for those purposes	17:20
vi__	kwtm: you can monitor dbus-system/session for program/hardware events and trigger scripts.	17:20
kwtm	Now my wife has an iPhone where Siri can read out her text messages. And I'm thinking, "big deal. I have espeak for that."	17:21
kwtm	Can't wait to start using vimscript text processing to send sms. :)	17:21
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vi__	kwtm: You want to have the time in russia spoken to you in chinese through espeak whenever you cover the proximity sensor WHILE the keyboard is open AND it is past 3AM? You can use dbus-scripts/dbuscron.	17:21
kwtm	vi__: I'll start with just reminding me there's a SMS waiting. There's an app for that, so I need to get my act together and set up the repositories on this thing.	17:22
DocScrutinizer05	dbus cron - a really poor naming for this dbus-scripting epigone	17:22
vi__	kwtm: you are thinking of sms-notify.	17:22
kwtm	vi__: Yeah ... I don't suppose that's a simple Python program I can cut and paste, is it? (I guess it needs to access cron or something ... is that built-in?)	17:23
vi__	kwtm: just bear in mind, when you start loading the N900 up with all this 'stuff' you will chip away at the battery life.	17:23
vi__	kwtm: sms-notify is a pythin script.	17:23
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: there is no cron on maemo, that's called alarmd	17:24
kwtm	Yeah, don't rub it in about the battery life. I can't believe I have 4 batteries and 2 of them may possibly be completely useless. And I can't find the 3rd. I have to get stuff from my old N900 transferred to the new.	17:24
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kwtm	DocScrutinizer05: Right, I remember reading about alarmd. Same syntax as cron or something else I should read up on?	17:24
LaoLang_cool	What packages do I need to compile the simple C program on n900?	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: there's an app called alarmed that interfaces to libalarmd and gives you cron-alike cmdline API	17:24
kwtm	vi__: I meant whether I can paste in the script for sms-notify, or do I need to install the package.	17:24
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: ... plus a nice GUI API on top, as alternative way to handle stuff	17:25
kwtm	The other thing I want to do, if possible, is to have the status icons (e.g. battery charging, on 3g network, etc.) show an icon for when Fn or Shift is pressed. Why wasn't that already built in? :P	17:25
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: that's why I deprecated anacron and suggested you look into alarmed app	17:26
kwtm	DocScrutinizer05: Thx for the tips.	17:26
DocScrutinizer05	yw	17:26
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vi__	kwtm: for maximum battery life:	17:28
vi__	1. purchase a 1500mAH battery.	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	meh	17:29
vi__	2. Install a kernel with smart reflex supported.	17:29
ZogG_laptop	vi__: it's easy for me as my argument was the first one =) as i pointed out the fact of 4/5 got phone	17:29
DocScrutinizer05	or a good real 1320mA genuine BL-5J Nokia battery	17:29
kwtm	vi__: It would have been ok if N900 shut down before the battery got to 0%. I had 4 batteries to swap between, and an external charger.	17:29
kwtm	I do have a real 1320mA battery with the hologram on it. I hope it can be rescued ...	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: numbers please! I have no smartrelflex and get pretty decent standby times	17:30
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: We shall have to disagree on this. We will not agree. I am a HEAVY N900 user. I know what works for me.	17:30
DocScrutinizer05	odds are with any special kernel you import other battery hogs without even noticing	17:31
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: Powertop is a great tool.	17:31
Raimu	I have a genuine Nokia battery that came with the phone, but it only gives something like 1050mA.	17:31
DocScrutinizer05	still no hard numbers on smart reflex	17:31
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: do you 'believe' in undervolting?	17:31
Raimu	Haven't ever gotten good standby times on any configuration, though.	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	tbh no I don't	17:32
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: You are an electronic engineer.	17:32
vi__	P=CFV^2	17:32
DocScrutinizer05	yes, and thus I know exactly that undervolting will make a difference only for the times when CPU is active	17:33
DocScrutinizer05	for a decent standby time you want to minimize those time periods	17:33
DocScrutinizer05	both in duration and frequency	17:33
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: definatley, however the CPU MUST awaken from time to time.	17:34
vi__	So for maximum battery life I must leave my n900 switched off?	17:34
Raimu	DocScrutinizer05: I've been wondering -- what sort of a thing can you remove from a stock configuration of a n900 with nothing l33t installed to lessen the amount of CPU wakes?	17:34
DocScrutinizer05	for the times when cpu is NOT in C5, you still save maximum maybe 10% of CPU(!) power consumption, while a lot of the total device power consumption is for things not related to CPU at all	17:35
Raimu	I get the part where one doesn't install suspicious widgets or script.	17:35
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: we are arguing for different cases here.	17:35
Raimu	*scripts	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	Raimu: some nonsensical desktop widgets maybe	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	skype !!	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	any other IM app	17:35
Raimu	Yeah, Skype is a complete hog when it's on.	17:36
vi__	Raimu: If you are online: skype, nokia messaging, IM etc.	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	vi__: you stated SmartReflex as number one measure to get a decent standby time - that's plain wrong	17:37
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: No I did not.	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	right, your 1500mAh battery been #1	17:37
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: I included it in a list of things to 'use/do' to get long battery life.	17:37
vi__	number 3 on the list would have been:	17:37
vi__	3. Minimise junk that wakes up the CPU.	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	which actually is #1 in priority and effectiveness, by far	17:38
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: I did not state the list was organised by importance.	17:38
DocScrutinizer05	:nod:	17:39
vi__	DocScrutinizer05: I said we will not agree!	17:39
vi__	But doc is right. The most important one is minimise junk that keeps the cpu awake.	17:39
DocScrutinizer05	well, if you like to disagree, I'm fine with that ;-P	17:40
DocScrutinizer05	let's agree we don't agree to disagree	17:41
vi__	I do not agree with this.	17:41
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kwtm	Ok, all, let's just disagree about disagreeing with this.	17:43
Raimu	That's too conformist. I'll agree.	17:43
kwtm	Instead you should all help me with this Really Weighty Problem: what command line can I call to make the N900 make a short beep?	17:43
kwtm	I've gotten it to send a text message but I want to indicate that it was done, hence a short beep/click or something. Is it "play click.wav" or something?	17:44
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DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: playsound </full/path7to/yourwav>	17:45
Raimu	Actually play-sound.	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	yep	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	~jrtools	17:46
infobot	methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	17:46
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/xchat/notify.sh	17:47
vi__	aplay	17:48
vi__	mplayer yoursound.wav	17:48
vi__	gstreamer	17:48
vi__	screen notification	17:48
vi__	i.e. a pop-up balloon thing.	17:48
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DocScrutinizer05	all way too much overhead to establish the playback stack, imho	17:50
DocScrutinizer05	play-sound is (almost too) lightweight	17:50
DocScrutinizer05	downside: no volume control	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	iow it's unclear which policy play-sound is using	17:51
DocScrutinizer05	and quite obviously play-sound has no option to choose the policy for playback of your sound	17:52
DocScrutinizer05	if anybody knows better detail on that topic, I'd appreciate to listen and learn	17:53
DocScrutinizer05	I actually haven't investigated if you maybe can control play-sound volume via system-signal-volume setting, or anything else	17:54
DocScrutinizer05	I just know it doesn't follow the generic volume control, just mutes on profile "silent"	17:55
DocScrutinizer05	kwtm: nevertheless hope that helps	17:56
kwtm	DocScrutinizer05: Thanks. I tried play-sound, but it keeps saying "ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt"	17:56
kwtm	mplayer works, so I'll use that for now. I'll deal with the startup delay later.	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	hmm, you try to play non-.wav ?	17:57
kwtm	DocScrutinizer05: Oh, the built-in ringtones, and also .mp3. SHould I be using sox instead? I do have mplayer installed already so I guess I'll just use that.	17:57
DocScrutinizer05	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=900108&highlight=playswoosh	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	try: /usr/bin/play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav	17:59
DocScrutinizer05	cranking up mplayer is a heavy operation	18:00
DocScrutinizer05	I'd guess	18:00
Raimu	DocScrutinizer05: Ever did the "ramp up brightness slowly" script?	18:02
Neutron__	does anyone have any experience with cheapo chinese 3G antennas?	18:02
DocScrutinizer05	Raimu: nope	18:02
Viltzu	Why glxinfo doesn't give anymore info when setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose	18:03
Viltzu	:\|	18:03
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DocScrutinizer05	Raimu: the flaw in this concept: pushing lockswitch already enables screen backlight instantly	18:05
DocScrutinizer05	so I'd have to deal with that, in a way that I ramp down screen brightness to zero whenever screen gets locked/dimmed	18:06
DocScrutinizer05	and that's the point where mce and its plugins being closed starts pissing me	18:06
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DocScrutinizer05	the insane bug of indicator LED breathing light getting dimmed to nearly invisible brightness whenever you lock the device in bright sunlight being another such point	18:09
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DocScrutinizer05	I mean, which insane crazy rationale might have resulted in THAT?	18:10
DocScrutinizer05	tbh all ALS related stuff feels rather "green" and incomplete beta state	18:11
DocScrutinizer05	I actually already pondered several times to kill the ALS driver all together	18:12
Raimu	Yeh, that's dumb.	18:14
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Raimu	I actually originally thought there's something wrong with the n900 before I realized there's some adaptive lighting scheme playing with the screen, for instance.	18:15
Raimu	Sitting in some random room and then the screen goes darker, brighter, darker again.	18:16
Raimu	ffs	18:16
vi__	I thought MCE was more or less exposed in meego?	18:16
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DocScrutinizer05	nope, it's a crippled version Nokia disclosed for meego's /mer's sake	18:26
DocScrutinizer05	like they did so many times. For mer/meego they disclosed things within 5 days after stskeeps asking for it, while same stuff been on a "please disclose" list for fremantle since literally years	18:29
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DocScrutinizer05	then they disclose stuff they think will suffice for meego, and don't care about fremantle and the disclosure-request there, not even to the point of letting us know they just disclosed (parts of) the stuff for meego purposes. We had to spot the rocks on gittorious by random finding	18:30
* RST38h yawns		18:31
RST38h	EHLO, gentlemen	18:31
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DocScrutinizer05	quite a nasty way to treat your community	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	hi RST38h	18:31
RST38h	Whazzup, Doc? Some source code got disclosed?	18:31
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DocScrutinizer05	nah, just rant about age old mce "disclosure"	18:31
DocScrutinizer05	nevermind, actually	18:32
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: I'm just still missing the sources for our mce, so I could finally fix some annoying bugs the easy way	18:33
DocScrutinizer05	like the "dim notifications LED, after locking device in bright sunlight" bug	18:34
DocScrutinizer05	I'm not all that alarmed about it since I learnt about the root cause, but it's still annoying silly a bug	18:35
RST38h	Sure it is because of sunlight?	18:36
DocScrutinizer05	and fixing it would mean RE of mce binary, and patching in some bytes	18:36
* RST38h is more annoyed about device going out of locked state every time it is plugged in		18:36
DocScrutinizer05	not exactly	18:36
DocScrutinizer05	why that?	18:37
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DocScrutinizer05	well, I agree it should be a user config option in mce.ini	18:37
RST38h	No idea, this misfeature has been introduced around PR 1.2	18:37
DocScrutinizer05	but after all you could fix it via a tiny scriptie for dbus-scripting	18:38
RST38h	I plug it into charger for a night and do not want it to wake up at that time	18:38
RST38h	heh	18:38
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: probably some designer opened a ticket "doesn't unlock screen on plugin to charger, so chargeing notification goes unnoticed"	18:39
DocScrutinizer05	and you know, design is sacrosanct. when they demand sth, it gets done that way	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	no matter if developers thing "what a pile of BS!"	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	think*	18:40
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DocScrutinizer05	developers otoh won't do a sane requirements spec including some config key, when such a change request from design dept. comes in	18:42
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DocScrutinizer05	somebody is picking the ticket, hacks some 5 lines of code, tests and delivers it, and next PR it gets rolled out	18:42
DocScrutinizer05	you probably dafely could roll back to previous mce version	18:43
DocScrutinizer05	safely	18:43
RST38h	Doc: Yeah, designers are of course the final decision makers on everything	18:45
RST38h	and the middle management	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: are you sure it's not related to your setting of "keep backlight on when on charger"?	18:45
RST38h	I have this option off	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	mhm	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	I don't, so I didn't even notice this change when pr1.2 update came	18:46
Corsac	hmhm, I didn't know there was such an option	18:46
Corsac	(or is it on Maemo 5?)	18:47
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DocScrutinizer05	sure on maemo5	19:09
DocScrutinizer05	what else?	19:10
DocScrutinizer05	I fail to recall if it's a standard display settings option, or in tweakr, or just in mce.ini	19:11
DocScrutinizer05	but definitely on fremantle/maemo5	19:11
* RST38h remembers disabling it but does not remember where		19:11
DocScrutinizer05	T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -< display -> "backlight during charging"	19:13
DocScrutinizer05	s/-</->/	19:13
infobot	DocScrutinizer05 meant: T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -> display -> "backlight during charging"	19:13
DocScrutinizer05	2nd checkbox from top	19:13
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DocScrutinizer05	and yes, I think it's been there since very beginning of maemo5	19:15
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* DocScrutinizer05 lols @ CA thread. Council hardly came into existence at all, nobody sane would have expected it to perform in an extraordinarily perfect way. Now it shows this expectations were all justified, and a few go nuts about that fact?		19:18
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DocScrutinizer05	you elected them, you got them. You didn't run for council yourselves. There's not been a way to vote void as I suggested last time a few minutes ago. That's what you get, live with it, or do sth about it. discussing in aftermath how this CA thing got handled is plain futile and poisonous to community at large	19:21
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DocScrutinizer05	(unless of course you hope for "educating the council members how to do it right" - something at least the most agressive and annoying one of the bunch already refused to ever do)	19:23
DocScrutinizer05	(to change own behaviour that is)	19:24
NIN101	to me it seemed (and seems still) council doesn't have real power anyway, so it doesn't matter.	19:25
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vi___	wtf is aries damage?	19:26
vi___	or is he just a mad jelly butthurt bellbag?	19:26
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vi___	everyone is carefully trying to avoid listing the negative points of entrants in order to save a 'public bashing'	19:28
DocScrutinizer05	NIN101: the more I'm feeling tempted to kick in and argue when e.g. FMG claims "council supposed to lead the community for the next 6 months" (owtte)	19:28
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DocScrutinizer05	fsck NO! they are meant to represent us, not to lead and govern us	19:29
DocScrutinizer05	nobody will govern and "lead" the community	19:29
NIN101	yep.	19:29
DocScrutinizer05	alas it seems quite a number of people incl most of council staff got it wrong on that minor detail	19:31
DocScrutinizer05	like if 10% of "community" elected a dictator quintett to rule the other 90% to obey to what those 10% of douchebags (usually very new to community as well) think things should be like	19:32
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DocScrutinizer05	"we rule! be with us or be under us"	19:33
DocScrutinizer05	no Sir!	19:33
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Lava_Croft	testosteron powers so many great things	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	lol	19:35
DocScrutinizer05	I got my very own idea why most of council refused to publish a photo of themselves	19:36
Lava_Croft	people want the council to show a photo of themselves?	19:37
Lava_Croft	thats a great idea, certainly on the internet	19:37
DocScrutinizer05	well, I'm doing this even while I'm not a council candadate	19:37
Lava_Croft	posting a photo of yourself?	19:38
DocScrutinizer05	and I expect that from anybody asking for my vote, on any role whatsoever	19:38
Lava_Croft	you do?	19:38
Lava_Croft	how is their physical appearance in any way related	19:38
utanapischti	"18:35:25 Lava_Croft \| testosteron powers so many great things" >>> hair loss	19:38
Lava_Croft	utanapischti: tell me about it	19:38
Lava_Croft	hair loss in the wrong places!	19:38
utanapischti	which place is wrong?	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	16 year old teenies with skinhead heircut and very special tatoo on their forehead?	19:39
Lava_Croft	who cares?	19:39
Lava_Croft	how is their physical appearance related?	19:39
DocScrutinizer05	i for one am interested in physical appearance	19:40
jacekowski	council doesn't exist	19:40
Lava_Croft	then you probably arent the right kind of person to participate in the voting	19:40
jacekowski	it's all just a computer program	19:40
Lava_Croft	pizzatime!	19:40
jacekowski	that's why there is no photo of it	19:40
DocScrutinizer05	as I won't vote for somebody that looks, smells, and talks like an old Nazi for example	19:40
DocScrutinizer05	as odds are he actually is an old nazi	19:41
jacekowski	i thought most germans are	19:41
DocScrutinizer05	and a 16 year old grumpy teenager with "conquer the world" phantasies will somehow expose this on a photo as well, if only his age	19:42
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utanapischti	18:41:51 jacekowski \| i thought most germans are <<<< most germans are too young to know what a nazi was	19:42
DocScrutinizer05	and after all it's good practice since at least 100 years you get faces of your electable candidates, no matter what's the election	19:43
utanapischti	most non-germans dont know what they are talking about too	19:44
DocScrutinizer05	if you're considering running for council but are afraid to publish a shitty photo of your nose, just rethink! maybe council is not the role for you	19:44
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DocScrutinizer05	but this council is all about redefining council from publicly known representatives to hidden acting dictatorship	19:45
DocScrutinizer05	and not liking to see your face published is all in line with that	19:46
jacekowski	shadow council	19:46
DocScrutinizer05	hell, were some of them even reluctant to disclose their real life names?	19:47
DocScrutinizer05	http://wiki.maemo.org/images/8/82/3D03C5DC-655D-418C-98F0-919B1EAF4FAB.JPG is actually a laugh	19:48
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Lava_Croft	the problem with demanding pictures is that inevitably it will turn into a discussion about quality of the photos, the physical appearance of the subjects and what not	19:49
jacekowski	well, when people ask for my photo i give them that	19:49
Lava_Croft	and if this was a modelling contest, that would be great	19:49
jacekowski	http://gallery.jacekowski.org/main.php?g2_itemId=1266	19:49
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: bullshit	19:49
Lava_Croft	you must be new to the internet	19:50
jacekowski	+ people would be wanking to female phtos	19:50
Lava_Croft	that too, but i was trying to avoid porn	19:50
Lava_Croft	:)	19:50
DocScrutinizer05	no, you must. http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council tells the whole sad story, at a glace. indeed	19:50
Lava_Croft	i dont see why you make such a fuss about portrait photos	19:51
Lava_Croft	they could be physically attracting to both sexes and still be horrible people	19:51
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: and no, there's never been any beauty contest or complaint about poor photo quality going on for any council except last and current one	19:51
jacekowski	tbh. i don't know those names	19:51
Lava_Croft	so thats not never	19:52
Lava_Croft	look, i personally always enjoy people's portrait pictures, but i just dont see how its so important to this	19:52
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Lava_Croft	same with real life names	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: they could be snake people from mars, in disguise. Still no reason to tell community "F U, you won't get a photo of _me_, suckers"	19:53
Lava_Croft	it is	19:53
Lava_Croft	why does the community have a right to know what you look like	19:53
Lava_Croft	how is it important to this matter	19:53
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: simply because it's how community elected ... (counting) 4(?) councils befor the abysmally poor last and incredibly arrogant current one	19:54
DocScrutinizer05	5 actually	19:54
DocScrutinizer05	at least	19:54
Lava_Croft	i think "we always did it like this in the past" is a weak argument	19:54
Lava_Croft	and thats to put it mildly	19:54
DocScrutinizer05	I think THIS is the wrakest argument	19:55
Lava_Croft	and i dont know about you, but arrogance is something you can easily fake either way in a picture	19:55
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DocScrutinizer05	so what?	19:55
Lava_Croft	please dont tell me that you link their pictures to their possible arrogant personalities	19:55
DocScrutinizer05	meh	19:55
Lava_Croft	hey, thats what you are saying	19:55
DocScrutinizer05	you are obviously one of the douchebags	19:56
Lava_Croft	eh?	19:56
Lava_Croft	i dont agree, so i must be a douchebag	19:56
DocScrutinizer05	the 10% to define new rules	19:56
Lava_Croft	this is hardly the right way to take on a discussion like this	19:56
MohammadAG	I see the arguing is moving to irc	19:56
DocScrutinizer05	to conquer the other 90%	19:56
Lava_Croft	well, the arguing is over now	19:56
MohammadAG	Well, at least freenode isn't funded by Nokia	19:56
MohammadAG	What's this about photos	19:57
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council	19:57
DocScrutinizer05	tells the whole story	19:57
Lava_Croft	someone is making a lot of fuss about some missing portrait photos	19:57
Lava_Croft	because that is one of the real problems this community faces in these times	19:57
Macer	i have my plasma tv open trying to tap test where the hell the problem is	19:57
Lava_Croft	that is really a subject that you want to argue about on both the forums and irc	19:58
Macer	the left side of it keeps flickering and going blank	19:58
DocScrutinizer05	yes, and that one are you, Sir	19:58
Lava_Croft	and then when someone does not agree, you just fall into petty insulting	19:58
Macer	then sometimes it will pop back up... sucks heh	19:58
Lava_Croft	like a really, really bad salesperson	19:58
Lava_Croft	good luck with it, DocScrutinizer05	19:58
DocScrutinizer05	I just said the photo issue is in line with other bad practice and notion we see on current council	19:58
MohammadAG	So what if photos are missing	19:59
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MohammadAG	I'm both of those guys with different nicks and I did that to have 3 N9s	19:59
DocScrutinizer05	then that shows the one is not bothering	19:59
MohammadAG	Nothing wrong there, carry on	19:59
MohammadAG	Its a simple cosmetic issue on the wikis	20:00
Lava_Croft	Not just that, I dont see what one should should express so much negativity over a subject like this	20:00
DocScrutinizer05	not willing to follow best practice of former councils	20:00
Lava_Croft	I mean, there's surely other subjects you can direct it at, more productive things	20:00
MohammadAG	Estel_: Fix it, please, kthxbai	20:00
MohammadAG	See? Problem solved	20:01
MohammadAG	No need for personal attacks	20:01
MohammadAG	Also the other guy, he's usually on irc, ping him about it	20:01
Lava_Croft	i know a good way to change the subject	20:02
Lava_Croft	MohammadAG: what is up with the n9 camera	20:02
Lava_Croft	is it the GPS (settings?) that cause it to take ages to startup?	20:02
Lava_Croft	or just not start up at all	20:02
MohammadAG	Lava_Croft: No, it's something added in between beta2 and pr1.2	20:03
Lava_Croft	something unknown?	20:03
Macer	the N9 camera?	20:03
DocScrutinizer05	MohammadAG: things started around http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2012-06-23T19:29:10 - read that and you'll se how we came to this silly photo topic now	20:03
MohammadAG	Idk, but it was very fast on prelease software	20:03
Lava_Croft	it does seem related to the GPS, but that might just be decieving	20:03
Macer	you're running maemo on an n9?	20:03
Lava_Croft	the n9 does run maemo :)	20:04
MohammadAG	VERY FAST	20:04
MohammadAG	no, we had geotagging in beta1	20:04
Lava_Croft	it seemed very fast at first too	20:04
zeq_laptop	I don't think it really has anything to do with the council. A lot of people on tmo wanted to buy an N950 or similar updated N900 type device. There's a lot of frustration (at Nokia) but now being directed at those they see getting what they wanted.	20:05
Lava_Croft	zeq_laptop: i backspace'd a message of the same nature a while agoD	20:05
Lava_Croft	:D*	20:05
zeq_laptop	I'm not paying enough attention, just seeing the discussion roll by...	20:05
zeq_laptop	:)	20:05
Lava_Croft	i didnt actually send it to the server:)	20:06
Macer	haha	20:06
zeq_laptop	I'm trying to get the Linaro 4.7.2 toolchain working in sb	20:06
MohammadAG	Don't judge a book by its cover	20:06
MohammadAG	16 year olds aren't bad :p	20:06
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MohammadAG	The way they act is what matters	20:06
Lava_Croft	when i was 16yo, i had a sea of time	20:06
zeq_laptop	Lava_Croft: ie backspaced - not enough attention :p	20:07
Lava_Croft	:)	20:07
MohammadAG	Lava_Croft: It's global warming that made it disappear, not age	20:07
Lava_Croft	oh geez	20:07
Lava_Croft	i live in the netherlands	20:07
Lava_Croft	less sea is always good here	20:07
MohammadAG	How old are you now?	20:07
Lava_Croft	you want my picture too?	20:08
MohammadAG	Yes, in a bikini please	20:08
Lava_Croft	i turn 31 in august:)	20:08
* RST38h moos at Mohammad		20:08
MohammadAG	Moo RST38h	20:08
Macer	she's on irc... she has to be fat	20:08
* Macer hides		20:08
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RST38h	Lava: So you can now officially bitch about 16-year olds, or what?	20:08
Lava_Croft	was i bitching about 16 year old?	20:08
Lava_Croft	i think someone else was	20:08
MohammadAG	Lava_Croft: Don't actually do that, no seriously, please don't	20:08
Lava_Croft	MohammadAG: dont worry, i dont fit im my wife's bikinis anyway	20:08
DocScrutinizer05	Lava_Croft: and again you got it wrong	20:09
NIN101	...	20:09
Lava_Croft	im sorry for breaking the spell :<	20:09
Macer	hahaha!!	20:09
MohammadAG	What I do dislike is 16 year olds with Audis	20:09
Lava_Croft	16 year olds arent allowed to drive cars here	20:09
MohammadAG	Or BMWs	20:09
Macer	16yr olds have audis?	20:09
RST38h	some do	20:09
Macer	you mean the silver spoon kids or are they just that much cheaper in the eu?	20:09
MohammadAG	They have dads with $$$	20:10
Macer	ah ok	20:10
MohammadAG	Well, some of them	20:10
Lava_Croft	audi is like the opel kadett of semi-wealthy people	20:10
RST38h	Mohammad: Lemme guess, PA government functionaries?	20:10
MohammadAG	I had a Nissan GT-R when I was 16	20:10
Lava_Croft	such a lack of personal taste	20:10
MohammadAG	I miss Gran Turismo	20:10
Macer	audis aren't that good.. but then again.. no cars are nowadays	20:10
Lava_Croft	i miss carmageddon	20:10
Macer	they're all made in china parts	20:10
Sc0rpius	Audis are good, well my brother has an Audi A4 and it's great	20:10
MohammadAG	RST38h: No, just fucked up hidden lives	20:11
Macer	is it new?	20:11
Sc0rpius	my sister has a SUV, an Audi Q6	20:11
Lava_Croft	audi is nice, but its also ver standard	20:11
Sc0rpius	yeah 2012	20:11
Lava_Croft	very*	20:11
MohammadAG	I like the RS3	20:11
* RST38h yawns and notices that when he was 16 years of age, Carmageddon has not been written yet		20:11
Macer	wait until the chinese knobs start breaking off ;)	20:11
Lava_Croft	i like the S* series tho	20:11
Macer	the $100 plastic chinese knobs	20:11
Lava_Croft	stationwagon S* series is just ridiculous	20:11
RST38h	Mohammad: ah! mafia!	20:11
Sc0rpius	well mys sister's husband used to have an S4 and now that was a car	20:11
Macer	a4 is zippy tho	20:11
Sc0rpius	now drives a Chevrolet :S	20:11
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Macer	i still have a 1994 caprice classic	20:11
* Sc0rpius drives a 2012 Mitsubishi Lancer		20:11
Macer	rides like a champ still :)	20:11
Macer	awesome shape for its age	20:12
MohammadAG	There's some 17 year old with an '12 Audi, he leaves it on and unlocked when he stops for a quick thing at the market	20:12
Lava_Croft	i drive a 49cc Yamah Neo's	20:12
Lava_Croft	more like ride	20:12
Macer	i do need to get a new set of tires and a new paint job for it	20:12
MohammadAG	Too much money on his dad's hands, and apparently he doesn't appreciate it	20:12
RST38h	Mohammad: Won't be doingit for lonh	20:12
RST38h	long	20:12
Macer	MohammadAG: that's how all rich kids are lol	20:12
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RST38h	and I hope corporal punishment is still in effect where you live	20:12
Macer	maybe once in a while rich kids aren't little spoiled brats	20:12
MohammadAG	Well he lives in a neighborhood filled with car thieves	20:12
Macer	but most are just assholes with money	20:13
MohammadAG	I drive a '00 golf	20:13
Macer	MohammadAG: like i said. i still have a 1994 caprice classic i bought in 2005	20:13
Sc0rpius	ah Volkswagen :)	20:13
Macer	the thing runs like it is brand new heh	20:14
MohammadAG	2.0 engine, so I try not to drive it a lot, at least not with gas prices now	20:14
Macer	so far i've only spent like 2000 on it	20:14
* RST38h just bought a 2012 Honda CRV		20:14
Macer	:-P mine is 4.3	20:14
MohammadAG	How much is a litre of gas?	20:14
Macer	it actually sips gas quite well for being a small v8 with lots of weight to mvoe around	20:14
Macer	we go by gallons here	20:14
Macer	$3.79/gal	20:14
RST38h	Probably makes me a spoiled something, but the 1997 one had too many miles on it	20:14
Lava_Croft	haha Macer wtf	20:15
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Macer	that's actually cheap now :-P	20:15
Lava_Croft	1.68e per liter here	20:15
Macer	it got up to like $4.30	20:15
Macer	+	20:15
MohammadAG	$3.1ish per litre	20:15
Macer	oMG	20:15
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: Petrol?	20:15
Macer	PER LITER??	20:15
Sc0rpius	with $2 I can fill the whoooole tank of my car :)	20:15
Lava_Croft	Macer: yes	20:15
MohammadAG	Lava_Croft: FUUU	20:15
Sc0rpius	that's what you get when you live in a country with oil	20:15
Macer	a gallon is around 4 liters isn't it?	20:15
Lava_Croft	0.264gal is 1 liter	20:15
Lava_Croft	apparently	20:15
MohammadAG	Lemme check actual conversion rates	20:15
Macer	omg	20:16
Macer	that's insane!	20:16
Lava_Croft	3.785l is 1 gallon	20:16
Lava_Croft	Macer: you in the US?	20:16
Macer	so ~$9/gallon??	20:16
RST38h	Sc0rpius: Nah, rur30/litre in Russia, and it has got oil	20:16
Macer	yes. in chicago	20:16
hiemanshu	I pay $1 for a litre of diesel, can drive about 20kms in a diesel	20:16
Lava_Croft	the US really lives in a bubble	20:16
Macer	Lava_Croft: i guess hahaha	20:16
Lava_Croft	Macer: see it as some kind of Matrix dream state	20:16
Lava_Croft	you will be so hurt by gas prices	20:16
Macer	omg almost $10 per gallon is absolutely crazy	20:16
Lava_Croft	just keep thinking of euro gas prices	20:16
Macer	Lava_Croft: the trick is to have all the refineries ;)	20:16
Lava_Croft	Macer: but the US has all the crazy fucking cars	20:17
MohammadAG	2.05	20:17
Lava_Croft	with HUGE engines	20:17
Lava_Croft	its just completely ridiculous	20:17
RST38h	Sooooo?	20:17
Macer	Lava_Croft: not all of them.. the hipsters have hybrids ;)	20:17
Macer	but $10/gallon... we would overthrow our govt if prices got that high	20:17
Lava_Croft	haha, yes	20:17
RST38h	So, US isa ridiculous country? Thanks, Cpt Obvious	20:17
Lava_Croft	but you will get there, one way or the other	20:17
Macer	i swear we would send in mercs to slaughter and take over the middle east if it ever hit$10	20:17
Lava_Croft	you have one pre on europe tho	20:17
Lava_Croft	you are americans	20:17
Lava_Croft	so if the gas prices bother you guys too much, you just invent some new shit	20:18
Macer	Lava_Croft: not our fault we won all the major wars :-P	20:18
Macer	lol	20:18
Lava_Croft	with hesitation	20:18
Macer	yeah	20:18
Macer	we're funny like that	20:18
Lava_Croft	in the eu, that will take a goddamn century	20:18
Sicelo	~owtte	20:18
infobot	somebody said owtte was or words to the effect	20:18
Lava_Croft	too bad we all get beat by china! :D	20:18
Macer	when it becomes a need we will have nuclear plants in corn fields pumping out billions of gallons of ethanol a day	20:18
MohammadAG	Yeah, 2.05/liter	20:18
Macer	no way... china's days are numbered ;)	20:18
Lava_Croft	naw	20:18
Lava_Croft	china will transition	20:18
Macer	they can't sustain themselves forever	20:19
Macer	i doubt it	20:19
Macer	we need another big war soon	20:19
Lava_Croft	naw, chinese empire has always owned this planet	20:19
MohammadAG	I get 200km per 50$	20:19
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Lava_Croft	euromarican empire is just temporary	20:19
Macer	Lava_Croft: they kind of have haven't they? :)	20:19
DocScrutinizer05	in Chine petrol is for free, but in 5 years you'll have to pay for the air your car engine needs ;-P	20:19
Macer	DocScrutinizer05: hahaha!!	20:19
MohammadAG	Fuck American cars	20:19
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: WTF? I get about 700km for $50	20:19
Lava_Croft	'real' american cars always feel cheap and shoddy to me	20:20
Lava_Croft	cheap plastics, bad finish	20:20
MohammadAG	hiemanshu: Engine capacity?	20:20
Macer	DocScrutinizer05: you would think by now someone would find a way to suck it all out the air and squeeze it back together :)	20:20
MohammadAG	Lava_Croft: ++	20:20
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: 35L	20:20
Lava_Croft	and then those engines	20:20
Lava_Croft	i mean seriously	20:20
Macer	Lava_Croft: older ones are better	20:20
jaska	800km, ~95 eur (per week)	20:20
Macer	like pre-gas woes cars	20:20
MohammadAG	hiemanshu: The fuck	20:20
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: oh wait, 1.2L	20:20
Lava_Croft	why do a lot of those cars sport those ridiculous engines	20:20
Macer	60s and 50s heh	20:20
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I read that wrong	20:20
MohammadAG	Oh, makes sense	20:20
Macer	maybe even some 70s	20:20
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I can go upto 170	20:20
MohammadAG	Mine's a 2.0	20:21
Macer	Lava_Croft: penis envy	20:21
DocScrutinizer05	hiemanshu: hiemanshu^	20:21
MohammadAG	260, but that doesn't matter	20:21
Lava_Croft	Fiat makes 1.3l diesel engines	20:21
Lava_Croft	thats the stuff americans should love	20:21
DocScrutinizer05	hi hiemanshu, i meant	20:21
Macer	haha	20:21
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: the roads here are built only for 100kmph :P	20:21
hiemanshu	hey DocScrutinizer05!	20:21
DocScrutinizer05	how's marriage?	20:21
Macer	geo/chevy made 1.3l engines	20:21
MohammadAG	hiemanshu: 110 here	20:21
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer05: good so far :)	20:21
DocScrutinizer05	:-)	20:21
Lava_Croft	Macer: probably Fiat engines:)	20:21
MohammadAG	But there's a private Russian road here	20:21
Macer	no.. suzuki	20:21
Lava_Croft	Fiat engines are in so many cars that its hard to know em all	20:21
Lava_Croft	heh, nice	20:21
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Macer	theh actual car was just a rebranded suzuki swift	20:21
MohammadAG	Max speed is 110, not enforced	20:21
Macer	don't know what was up with that	20:21
MohammadAG	So most people do 160-180	20:22
Macer	i had a geo metro	20:22
Macer	i could drive for days on $5 back then :)	20:22
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hiemanshu	MohammadAG: max speed here most places is 80, but the roads cant handle much more than 140	20:22
Macer	it was like 1996 tho heh	20:22
MohammadAG	I got to 220 on it, then air resistance == force by engine	20:22
MohammadAG	Well, air resistance and friction	20:22
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: the max I have high is 170 constant for 25 mins	20:22
hiemanshu	hit*	20:22
MohammadAG	180 for 63 mins	20:22
MohammadAG	Haifa to Jerusalem :P	20:23
Macer	km/h?	20:23
MohammadAG	Yeah	20:23
hiemanshu	yeah	20:23
Macer	what is that mph?	20:23
hiemanshu	kmph	20:23
DocScrutinizer05	at 220km/h it starts getting boring, in a way it's too demanding	20:23
Macer	like ... 70? heh	20:23
MohammadAG	130?	20:23
Macer	you damn euros with your metric system	20:23
hiemanshu	Macer: India here :P	20:23
Macer	india is just the forgotten UK colony :-P	20:24
MohammadAG	About 120	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	you damn Americans with your reverse logic and screwed units	20:24
Macer	DocScrutinizer05: we still have more money than you :)	20:24
DocScrutinizer05	138seconds/mile	20:24
MohammadAG	Uh, we're the ones with the screwed system?	20:24
Macer	lol	20:24
MohammadAG	Water freezes at 0, not 36!!!'	20:24
Macer	32 :-P	20:24
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: 32 :P	20:24
Macer	honestly for temp we should all be using kelvins	20:25
Macer	both C and F are stupid	20:25
Macer	:)	20:25
Macer	for food we should be using joules	20:25
Macer	not calories.. wtf is a calorie??	20:25
Macer	nutritionist (fake doctor) crap	20:25
RST38h	Macer: I hate having to correct you, but there is no need to send anyone to Middle East	20:26
RST38h	Macer: Most of the place is basically a flatland. Nukes will work perfectly there.	20:26
Macer	RST38h: hahahah.. but we have to get to it still ;)	20:26
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer05 about 220 getting boring, you're right	20:26
Macer	there is still a little fission required for fusion	20:26
MohammadAG	It's fun the first two times	20:26
RST38h	Macer: May require slight modifications to insure the sand around epicenter turns into glass, so that there is less pollution	20:27
MohammadAG	Then it seems to cost more, and you're more likely to day cause of that dumb driver who switches lanes without looking	20:27
MohammadAG	But 400kmph, that's a different story	20:27
DocScrutinizer05	not possible on German highways ;-P	20:27
DocScrutinizer05	I tried XP	20:27
vi__	macer then you should come to the uk.	20:28
DocScrutinizer05	actually most cars are limited hard @ 250 here	20:28
jaska	software :)	20:28
DocScrutinizer05	not the one I used though	20:28
DocScrutinizer05	but it felt like useless stress to me driving at that speeds >>220	20:29
DocScrutinizer05	180 feels like a nice speed to me	20:29
DocScrutinizer05	maybe even 160	20:29
DocScrutinizer05	for more my synapses aren't built	20:30
RST38h	Macer: Why do you need to get to it? In fact, you do not even need to bomb it, just fake the CNN/Fox/etc reporting.	20:30
Macer	haha	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	at least when driving	20:30
RST38h	Macer: 99% Americans will be quite satisfied with the results	20:30
DocScrutinizer05	airplane is a whole different thing	20:31
Macer	RST38h: yeah but you'll have all the eu crybabies pissed we took the oil first ;)	20:31
RST38h	The rest are just serial protesters who want to bankrupt American enterprise for their commie welfare state or somethign	20:31
RST38h	Macer: Not if you do not actually bomb, just fake it for the TV =)	20:31
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rzr	cat fights on tmo :)	20:33
Macer	rzr: aren't there always?	20:33
DocScrutinizer05	ooh, me forgot to hit F5	20:33
Macer	DocScrutinizer05: i thought boeing was testing out a hydrogen/oxygen plane?	20:34
Macer	they say a drone worked quite well :)	20:34
Macer	and it can fly for days without refueling	20:34
Macer	GO BOEING!	20:34
Macer	http://www.boeing.com/Features/2010/07/bds_feat_phantom_eye_07_12_10.html	20:36
Macer	larger airports with smaller planes and better logistics	20:36
Macer	will cut the middle east completely out of the airline business :)	20:36
Macer	AND... pollute less heh... how can boeing NOT sell that?	20:37
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DocScrutinizer05	~seen javispedro	20:55
infobot	javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 21h 50m 58s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.	20:55
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vi__	~seen infobot	21:03
infobot	infobot is currently on #utos (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-doc (19h 6m 32s) #botpark (19h 6m 32s) ##t42 (19h 6m 32s) #maemo (19h 6m 32s) #fredlug (19h 6m 32s) ##ols (19h 6m 32s) #n9 (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-scf-dev (19h 6m 32s) #flyspray (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-dev (19h 6m 32s) #webos-internals (19h 6m 32s) #opensimpad.org (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk (19h 6m 32s) #byumug (19h 6m ...	21:03
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DocScrutinizer05	vi__: there's a smarter way for that	21:07
DocScrutinizer05	~chaninfo	21:07
infobot	123/123 channels, 5020 users, 3624 unique: #debian/1212, #kde/390, #maemo/272, #gsoc/265, #meego/185, #asterisk/181, #harmattan/173, #wowuidev/144, #oe/135, #wowace/114, #webos-internals/113, #openmoko/95, #wowhead/88, #arm-netbook/78, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/69, #n9/67, #htc-linux/61, #utah/61, #bzflag/57, #edev/57, #qi-hardware/55, #curseforge/55, #tomcat/53, #diablofans/51, #asterisk-dev/47, #maemo-ssu/44, #/41, #sc2mapster/39, ...	21:07
DocScrutinizer05	~+uptime	21:07
infobot	- Uptime for purl -	21:07
infobot	Now: 19h 12m 8s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux	21:07
infobot	1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 2010	21:07
infobot	2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 2009	21:07
infobot	3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug 4 17:38:59 2009	21:07
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vi__	I want coffee, but it is too late for caffeine.	21:11
vi__	FML.	21:11
DocScrutinizer05	never too late for a nice coffee	21:12
DocScrutinizer05	esp on saturday	21:12
DocScrutinizer05	~xyawn	21:12
infobot	it has been said that xyawn is strong coffee	21:12
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vi__	~pangalacticgargleblaster	21:12
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki pangalacticgargleblaster	21:13
infobot	I couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=pangalacticgargleblaster&go=Go	21:13
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki pangalactic gargleblaster	21:13
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pangalactic_Gargleblaster (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Hatnote\|This article is about the fictional character. For the Ottawa nightclub, see Zaphod Beeblebrox (nightclub).}} {{Infobox character \| colour = red \| name = Zaphod Beeblebrox \| image = as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation.]] \| caption = Mark Wing-Davey as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation. \| first = Fit the Second (radio) \| last = \| cause = \| ...	21:13
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DocScrutinizer05	works better on non-fictional drinks, like:	21:14
DocScrutinizer05	~wiki tschunk	21:14
infobot	At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tschunk (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject\|Mixed Drinks\|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced\|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox \| iba = \| name = Tschunk \| image = Tschunk cropped.jpg \| caption = \| type = cocktail \| flaming = \| rum = yes \| brandy = no \| served = \| garnish = \| drinkware = \| ingredients = 4-6 cl white rum or golden rum limes Club-Mate (if desired): brown sugar *ice \| prep = Dice limes, put them ...	21:14
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vi__	I think imma.	21:16
vi__	gonna get drunk.	21:16
vi__	brb	21:16
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RST38h	Meanwhile: Sexy Female Scientist Video Draws Fire	23:10
* RST38h notices that more and more headlines draw involuntary "WTF?" reaction from him lately		23:10
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: no worries, this are just short attacks, it comes and goes	23:14
DocScrutinizer05	and eventually levels to a mild but constant wrf-feeling about everything	23:14
RST38h	I guess that is what is known as dementia	23:16
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Macer	lol@claxton missing a 3ft put	23:24
rzr	do u know how to fix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APJG1njtmqk	23:25
DocScrutinizer05	RST38h: nope, that's commonly known as "grumpy old fart"	23:26
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DocScrutinizer05	rzr: I don't think youtube can be fixed	23:27
DocScrutinizer05	(and no, I also don't think everybody in this chan is supposed to watch an arbitrary youtube video to decide if (s)he knows some relevant answer)	23:28
DocScrutinizer05	on a general note:	23:28
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DocScrutinizer05	~ask	23:28
infobot	Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will.	23:28
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