IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2012-06-23

ds3i mean for the contest00:00
DocScrutinizer05because I would win all the prices, except the one for blueled and his pimped N81000:00
freemangordonwell, I remember that guy on #beagle that told me to replace the SoC :D:D:D00:00
ds3what's wrong with the idea of replacing the SoC?00:01
freemangordonyeah, to put a new one to have stable thumb2 :D00:01
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freemangordonds3: nothing?00:01
ds3esp. if the new one is a GP part00:01
DocScrutinizer05nothing really, except our most experienced engineers at openmoko killed 3 out of 4 devices by doing just that, on quite easy prototypes that had no crowded motherboard00:02
freemangordonmhm, and especially if you don;t need phone calls00:02
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ds3DocScrutinizer05: were they doing it themselves?00:02
DocScrutinizer05no, they used tools00:02
ds3but they were doing it themselves00:03
ds3vs having folks who are familiar with the process do it00:03
vi__ds3: themselves where qualified engineers.00:03
ds3vi__: soldering folks are different from design folks00:03
vi__Not imaginary wizards who can reball a chip.00:03
DocScrutinizer05WTF do you thin professional EE staff at a phone manuf company is "used to do"??00:03
vi__ds3: I know, we look down on them!00:04
ds3I have had 100% success swapping out POP's with my CM00:04
DocScrutinizer05or "familliar with"?00:04
ds3there is a certain knack/practice needed to swap out POPs00:04
ds3if this is their first POP rework, 1/4 isn't too bad00:04
DocScrutinizer05hell, ATM we get around 50% yield on professional reflow, for GTA0400:05
ds3and builds of a certain other open project had yeilds of like 40% at one point00:07
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ds3what might be more interesting is getting Harmatten or Freemantle going on the Galaxy Nexus00:07
ds3the extra memory on there would be nice00:08
DocScrutinizer05the extra complexity on cellmo too00:08
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DocScrutinizer05and on power management, and on GFX00:09
ds3the stock android stuff seems to do okay on the PM00:09
DocScrutinizer05then use android!00:09
ds3Linux GFX support for that chip is available... tricky with the version but available00:09
ds3android blows00:09
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DocScrutinizer05I know one thing for sure: there's no RIL availale for maemo00:10
DocScrutinizer05since that's not how maemo works00:11
DocScrutinizer05so have fun with RE of libisi and stuff00:11
ds3the source for the RIL might be available00:12
ds3haven't searched the whole tree00:12
DocScrutinizer05there IS NO RIL00:12
DocScrutinizer05on maemo00:12
ds3I know00:12
ds3the sources for the RIL should provide hints as to what needs to be poked to setup calls, etc00:12
ds3worse comese to worse, it be comes more like the N800 but faster CPU. I can live w/o a local 3G modem00:13
DocScrutinizer05and that helps how? when you don't know the API of the lib?00:13
DocScrutinizer05fine, so now we're from N900-it's-NOT-a-phone maemo to "android sucks" to N800-like ubuntu, or what?00:14
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ds3I have never used the N900 voice capabilities.00:15
DocScrutinizer05that's clearly *your* problem00:15
ds3so lack of phone just isn't an issue as far as I am concern00:15
DocScrutinizer05I'd not invest my time to port 60% of maemo to another phone, to use it as PDA00:16
ds3I just want a decent UI with code behind it that isn't design to steal information.00:16
infoboti guess ril is Remain in Light, a Talking Heads album featuring them at the peak of their Eno-ness00:16
vi__DocScrutinizer05> there IS NO RIL00:16
vi__^DAFUQ this means?00:16
vi__ds3: have you tried symbian?00:17
ds3vi__: no, no interest.00:17
ds3I just want a UI on a tablet that works.00:17
ds3and android doesn't cut it. let along all the questionable code in there written to allow outside intrusions00:18
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vi__ds3: then there is literally nothing else available.00:20
vi__ds3: Have you tried wp7?00:20
ds3vi__: think so... at stores. not useable.00:20
Macerds3: that's india's doing!00:20
Macerandroid does suck... i have a transformer :-/00:21
ds3the n900 UI is the only one that is useable00:21
Macerit's awful00:21
Maceryeah.. it sure is00:21
Maceri wish i could put maemo on my transformer00:21
Maceror something.. anything else other than android00:21
Maceri was making the attempt a while back but couldn't figure it out00:21
SiceloWP8 maybe00:21
Maceri should look into mer and see00:21
ds3on Fremantle, is the UI a customized matchbox or ?00:21
Maceri think it's just windows 8 ;)00:21
* ShadowJK was thinking of getting a transformer00:22
SpeedEvilI was idly wondering about
DocScrutinizer05ds3: yes, matchbox, iirc00:24
ds3DocScrutinizer05: Hmmm. I'll need to debug more then. I made a copy of the filesystem and running matchbox from a chroot gives me something very different00:25
Macerthe transformer sucks00:26
Macerunless you get an older one and figure out how to put kde active on it00:26
Macerwhich from what i understand IS possible but i just don't have the skills :-/00:26
Maceri'm waiting for an easy image or something to do it00:27
Sicelods3: of course it's different. it's hildon on maemo, not matchbox per se .. although the concept is the same00:27
Maceri'd give anything to put something other than android on this transformer00:27
Sicelowhere matchbox doesnt' allow multiple visible windows00:27
SpeedEvilThen there is the thorny issue of do you still want to run android apps on it.00:27
Maceri don't00:28
Macerif i can run xterm, ssh, and chromium, and have a gtalk client... i'm sold00:28
Maceri'm more curious how it would manage the power tho00:28
DocScrutinizer05  >>It uses the Matchbox window manager, and the GTK-based Hildon framework as its GUI and application framework.<<00:28
Macerwhich seems to be .... usually what breaks ;)00:28
Macerwhen not running a stock OS00:28
Siceloyeah, DocScrutinizer05, agreed00:28
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MacerHildon (c)00:29
MacerShadowJK: get an old tf101 and put active on it and tell me how you did it00:29
Macerbonus points if you get maemo on it00:29
Macerbut i think the screen is a tad too big for maemo's 1 window a a time system00:30
vi__DocScrutinizer05: but matchbox gets shutdown before HD starts...?00:32
DocScrutinizer05I'd think I've seen sth like that,yes. But i'd assume HD is just another tweaked matchbox incarnation00:33
vi__bootup stuff->matchbox(request password/leave offline mode?)->close matchbox->HD.00:34
vi__I have NFC what HD REALLY is so yeah.00:34
DocScrutinizer05:nod: seems familar00:34
freemangordonthat is what hidon-desktop is using (i.e. libmatchbox2)00:35
freemangordonwhatever the difference with matchbox 1 is00:35
DocScrutinizer05aiui HD is the windows manager while matchbox is... err... X ??00:35
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: aiui HD is the desktop manager while matchbox is... err... X ??00:36
freemangordonno, h-d (along with libmatchbox2) is a window manager00:36
freemangordonmatchbox is WM too00:36
freemangordonand xserver-xorg is X00:36
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DocScrutinizer05I've no projects that need this detail in their wiki ATM00:37
freemangordonCSSU? :P00:37
DocScrutinizer05not really, for now00:37
DocScrutinizer05I guess you'll come up with some nifty plan that will make me learn all about that stuff, next week00:38
freemangordonnext week? no, it was planned for the weekend ;)00:38
DocScrutinizer05duh, your link.00:39
DocScrutinizer05my laptop froze and needed a reboot :-S00:39
freemangordonaah, yes. though I won;t be able to do any maemo related stuff till sunday00:39
ShadowJKMacer, how does running multiple apps work, does it work, can you have more than one browser window or tab or something?00:39
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: so lets leave it for Sunday or next week, hopefully Pali will appear too00:40
DocScrutinizer05too late: here you are ->
Macerin android?00:41
Maceryes heh00:41
Macerit works somewhat similar to maemo... all apps are full screen and multitask and are allowed background processes00:42
Macerat the very least i can say that android does multitask unlike ios and wp700:42
ShadowJKdoes flash on youtube work, do you get 720 or 1080?00:43
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Viltzuzeq_laptop: I'm just wondering when you exactly are going to write the how to? I'm just wondering. There's no hurry.00:46
vi__Is ssh over wifi broken is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?00:48
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vi__Is ssh over wifi under harmattan broken?00:49
vi__is what I meant.00:49
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DocScrutinizer05is what01:00
vi__Is using ssh, over a wifi connection on the harmattan operating system 'broken'?01:01
DocScrutinizer05vi__: it wasn't (and isn't) for the OS rev I got here01:02
DocScrutinizer05nfc about "newer" versions01:03
DocScrutinizer05ssh bp; is what I do all the time. I never ever physically toucht those devices01:03
DocScrutinizer05(bp like burning-platform)01:04
DocScrutinizer05which actually is the N95001:04
DocScrutinizer05thanks to MohammadAG for the christianizing01:05
DocScrutinizer05christening actually01:06
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DocScrutinizer05however I *seem* to recall I had to tweak something in sshd config eventually. Dunno if it was for adopting the local class-C, or for allowing remote login from larger internets01:08
DocScrutinizer05anyway it seems fact the IP range allowed to log in is restricted01:09
DocScrutinizer05vi__: but maybe ask that on #harmattan ?01:09
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DocScrutinizer05jr@HaleBopp:/btr77G> ssh -l root
DocScrutinizer05BusyBox v1.19.0.git (Maemo 3:1.19-7+0m6) built-in shell (ash)01:12
DocScrutinizer05Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.01:12
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: duh, wait. You'r enew to HARM, are you?01:15
DocScrutinizer05I think first of all you'll need to enable developer mode in settings, and install a bunch of tools01:17
DocScrutinizer05(will get installed the moment you enable DM)01:17
DocScrutinizer05then the joy of forgetting all you knew about linux/unix starts. Since nothing works like you'd expect, when it comes to rootshell on HARM01:18
DocScrutinizer05there's no sudo and su anymore, but devel-su and develsh01:19
DocScrutinizer05(still haven't wrapped my head around when you need which of them)01:19
DocScrutinizer05but hey, on fremantle we got root and sudo gainroot ;-P01:20
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DocScrutinizer05then you'll notice that root doesn't have *any* special powers at all, since all the permissions are linked to the executable now, not to the user01:21
DocScrutinizer05so root can't even kill user processes, or write to user's homedir01:21
DocScrutinizer05then you'll learn there are a shitload of files (in etc/ et al) that will cause MALF, a nasty way the system teaches you to never touch those files01:22
DocScrutinizer05edit /etc/init.d/$whatever ? don't even think about it!01:23
NIN101summary: ham sucks if you care about usual linux experience.01:24
DocScrutinizer05but yeah01:25
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vi__DocScrutinizer05: wait, I cannot even edit the config files in /etc/?01:28
vi__DocScrutinizer05: what do you lose when you put it in 'open' mode?01:29
infobotmayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }01:29
DocScrutinizer05use dirs on this function, like /etc01:29
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: there's only one true openmode, and that will kill several of the deemed security-critical things like password storage etc01:31
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vi__This is sounding like an epic ballache,01:31
DocScrutinizer05mount|grep aegis01:31
DocScrutinizer05soory but my pastebin doesn't work yet, on this laptop, so...01:32
vi__So does inception totally blow aegis out of the water?01:32
DocScrutinizer05RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# mount|grep aegis01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/.positioningd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/.mms/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/.odnp-fpcd/private type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /var/cache/timed/aegis type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:32
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /home/user/.slpgwd/layer type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:33
DocScrutinizer05aegisfs on /etc/ssl/certs type fuse.aegisfs (rw,nosuid,nodev,relatime,user_id=30007,group_id=30010,allow_other)01:33
DocScrutinizer05vi__: not really01:33
DocScrutinizer05as you still have checksum-hashes on immutable/untouchable files01:33
DocScrutinizer05but you could install a new/edited version of a /etc/events.d/$whatever, with inception plsu the right tools, whatever those might be01:34
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: are you fluent in any script language besides bash?01:36
DocScrutinizer05hmm, not really fluent01:36
merlin1991I've been thinking of building a sb based "autobuilder" just in case01:37
DocScrutinizer05I think I could hack up sth in python, though it'll look like my dog's arse01:37
merlin1991since I have everything that's needed on my server already :DS01:37
DocScrutinizer05sure thing01:37
vi__Fuck those TMO haterz.01:38
DocScrutinizer05if only javispedro would show up every now and then01:38
DocScrutinizer05vi__: eh?01:38
merlin1991yeah, he showed up to quite a few of the obs meetings though01:38
DocScrutinizer05~seen javispedro01:38
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 2h 34m 30s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.01:38
merlin1991I guess if X-Fade finishes the obs work we could copy paste that to any server farm01:38
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: infobot is not in #maemo-meeting01:39
jacekowskimerlin1991: i've had an autobuilder01:39
vi__DocScrutinizer05: the CA thread on TMO is now getting personal.01:39
* DocScrutinizer05 neither :-P01:39
infobotsomebody said tmo was, or, or It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.01:39
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: thankfully I never read the tmo thread :D01:40
merlin1991jacekowski: any code you can share to build on?01:40
DocScrutinizer05hi jacekowski :-901:40
merlin1991I guess for a proper replacement we need a good web integration01:40
merlin1991jacekowski: also in general I'm interested how you did that :)01:41
vi__merlin1991: or a gun.01:41
jacekowskimerlin1991: with a lot of effort01:41
merlin1991vi__: I don't follow01:41
vi__merlin1991: sorry, too much polish special brew.01:42
merlin1991hehe :D01:42
vi__merlin1991: I shall proceed to lurk.01:42
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merlin1991vi__: input is always welcome, though I prefer clear input ;)01:42
jacekowskimerlin1991: buildme + reprepo01:42
merlin1991reprepro is awesome, though it only keeps one version01:43
jacekowskii don't think so01:43
merlin1991which would break the old repo systen01:43
infobotmerlin1991 meant: which would break the old repo system01:43
jacekowskireprepo can do multiple versions01:43
merlin1991I asked over in #reprepro yesterday and the devs said no :D01:43
jacekowskidunno then01:44
jacekowskii think it worked on mine01:44
jacekowskibut i've got no way of testing it01:44
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merlin1991dpkg-scanpackages doesn't do multiple versions either01:44
DocScrutinizer05vi__: when things get personel on tromoox, we got chem|st to fix this battle01:44
jacekowskii've tried using apt-ftparchive as well01:44
merlin1991and there ends my knowledge about apt-repo tools01:44
merlin1991did you have any kind of implementation for user uploads of source?01:45
jacekowskibut it was only for me and few trusted users01:45
merlin1991jacekowski: I'm thinking about web form ...01:45
jacekowskiand i didn't have to track it01:45
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: got a link to the flame thread?01:46
jacekowskimerlin1991: there are standard tools that use ssh01:46
DocScrutinizer05me? nah01:46
jacekowskimerlin1991: dput01:46
jacekowskimerlin1991: and dput is used all across other distros and stuff01:46
DocScrutinizer05I guess vi__got some01:46
merlin1991jacekowski: yeah, though that hardly would represent the known interface :/01:46
merlin1991(but I use it for cssu uploads ;))01:47
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: are you in mood for popcorn, eh?01:47
jacekowskimerlin1991: maemo uses dput01:47
merlin1991jacekowski: we've got the webinterface aswell01:47
merlin1991which is even better documented01:47
jacekowskiyou don't need a lot of documentation for dput01:48
merlin1991yeah :D01:48
merlin1991though would you be interested to develop a similar autobuilder based on any language?01:48
merlin1991I don't feel like doing it completely alone01:48
DocScrutinizer05why can't we use the original one?01:49
merlin1991*just in case*01:49
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: funding isn't fixed for the future, and the maemo future doesn't look good01:49
DocScrutinizer05the autobuilder script01:49
merlin1991aswell as the whole midgard system is a bit overkill for the average self paid root server01:50
merlin1991it incorporates *everything* has :/01:50
merlin1991as far as I can tell it doesn't look quite modular01:50
DocScrutinizer05midgard does autobuilds?01:50
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: for a proper replacement I'd like to have a running builder and at least hte package interface01:51
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merlin1991the builder scripts might be independent, though they are heavily adjusted by X-Fade thus not exactly freely avaiable, and everything else is midgard01:51
DocScrutinizer05thought as much, modulo I don't see why X-Fade wouldn't want to share the autobuilder scripts01:52
merlin1991ture :D01:52
* DocScrutinizer05 invites merlin1991 for a Tschunk01:53
merlin1991I guess X-Fade would be happy to share them, but I fear they are written in something I'm not fluent in01:53
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DocScrutinizer05well, that's the least problem, no?01:53
DocScrutinizer05you can learn ;-)01:53
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merlin1991stufu ;)01:53
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: what's a Tschunk though?01:54
DocScrutinizer05~wiki tschunk01:54
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject|Mixed Drinks|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox | iba = | name = Tschunk | image = Tschunk cropped.jpg | caption = | type = cocktail | flaming = | rum = yes | brandy = no | served = | garnish = | drinkware = | ingredients = *4-6 cl white rum or golden rum *limes *Club-Mate *(if desired): brown sugar *ice | prep = Dice limes, put them ...01:54
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merlin1991omfg contains Club-Mate01:54
merlin1991caffaine ftw :D01:55
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merlin1991we lost her :/01:55
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merlin1991[00:55:27] <-- infobot ( hat das Netzwerk verlassen (Remote host closed the connection)01:56
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infobotDocScrutinizer: infobot joined!01:56
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DocScrutinizer05meh, Tim's hacky hour01:56
infobot:), merlin199101:56
DocScrutinizer05~seen timriker01:57
infobottimriker is currently on #ldstech #infobot, last said: 'hmm. I didn't get the jira email korman sent out. Perhaps I'm not on those lists?'.01:57
merlin1991wtf abill_uk actually has a sane argument on the ca thread01:59
NIN101the ca is popcorn.01:59
DocScrutinizer05seems a good tradition meanwhile: Tim /joins #infobot at Friday 23:00 UTC, and says ~die02:00
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infobot- Uptime for purl -02:00
infobotNow: 5m 5s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux02:00
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201002:00
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200902:00
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200902:00
DocScrutinizer05thanks purl02:01
infobotno worries, DocScrutinizer0502:01
merlin1991NIN101: I can't complain, I got a n95002:01
DocScrutinizer05traitor! ;-D02:02
Sc0rpiusI should have one of those02:03
DocScrutinizer05welcome to #club950 anyway02:03
DocScrutinizer05which probably is the best thing about the whole device02:04
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NIN101you deserve it, others don't (imo). Intransparent decissions and also not sure what to think that council members themselves got a device. I am not saying they don't deserve it, but it is kinda strange, because they are doing the decisions... :-)02:04
Sc0rpiusin the meantime I'm still waiting for a proper replacement for the N90002:04
Sc0rpiusand N9 is not.02:04
Macerdidn't the scientist who developed lsd live to be like 110 or something?02:04
Sc0rpiusand a device with Tizen is not either02:04
MacerSc0rpius: it will never happen :(02:05
Macerthe n900 is a one of a kind02:05
Sc0rpiusa device with Mer isn't either.02:05
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: I'd argue every day that council *needs* a device for reference purposes02:05
Macerwhat's wrong with mer?02:05
Sc0rpiustry it02:05
Sc0rpiusand then ask the question again02:05
Maceri wanted to try to get it on the tf10102:05
Macerand install active02:05
Macerbut don't know how :-/02:05
NIN101DocScrutinizer05: That's probably true.02:06
jacekowskiSc0rpius: there will never be device like that02:06
jacekowskiSc0rpius: there is no market for it02:06
Sc0rpiusI guess02:07
jacekowskiSc0rpius: older people don't buy smartphones02:07
jacekowskiSc0rpius: so those will be happy with anything, maybe symbian02:07
jacekowskiSc0rpius: and kids want iphone02:07
jacekowskimaybe android02:07
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merlin1991n900 was one of a kind, so much hw in one device, a update to todays standards would only include more ram, newer omap and nfc02:07
jacekowskimerlin1991: and capacitive screen02:08
jacekowskimerlin1991: with stylus, like in galaxy note02:08
DocScrutinizer05jacekowski: yeah, and both the elder and the kids already asked my "don't you eventually get yourself a smartphone instead of this thing?" X-P02:08
jacekowskithat would be sweet02:08
Sc0rpiuswell I never use the stylus02:08
vi__jacekowski: nah, multi-touch resistive!02:08
NIN101(and glonass maybe)02:08
Sc0rpiusI think Galaxy S series phones have better screen than the N90002:08
Sc0rpiusbut the only real good thing about the N900 was the OS (the hardware is crap actually)02:08
jacekowskivi__: resistive is soft02:08
jacekowskivi__: and it's easier to scratch than glass capacitive02:09
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Sc0rpiusI hate that N900 doesn't have multitouch for instance02:09
jacekowskiif you can do glass resistive i'll have it any day02:09
jacekowskibut having glass screen is a priority for me02:09
DocScrutinizer05Sc0rpius: what should fremantle do with mt??02:09
jacekowskias i don't use any screen protectors or anything02:09
Sc0rpiusbut I really need an OS with 100% native executables in a phone.02:09
merlin1991well fm transmitter is quite awesome aswell02:10
Sc0rpiusmultitouch is important in games02:10
Sc0rpiusand games are important in this business02:10
jacekowskiSc0rpius: you can do native on android02:10
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Sc0rpiusdo you know how much money the Angry Birds guys made?????02:10
jacekowskiSc0rpius: a lot02:10
JakDaRippais anyone in here using fmms and tmobile in the US? having trouble with my configuration settings.02:10
Sc0rpiusthat's the amount of money I need02:10
jacekowskiSc0rpius: not as much as that farm game on facebook though02:10
DocScrutinizer05I don't give a flying F about AB02:10
DocScrutinizer05and even less about how much money they made with it02:10
Sc0rpiuswell I would love to have JUST ONE SINGLE IDEA for an app/game that I could make that amount of money02:11
jacekowskii wish i would have that kind of money02:11
Sc0rpiusand never ever work again in my life02:11
jacekowskiSc0rpius: it's not a new idea02:11
jacekowskiSc0rpius: games like that existed before02:11
* Woody14619 is off for the weekend..bye! :)02:11
Sc0rpiuswell but it's an very well implemented idea02:11
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Sc0rpiusI didn't say it has to be an innovative idea02:11
merlin1991JakDaRippa: I fear currently this channel is made of old european guys talking about why current smartphones suck ;)02:11
Sc0rpiusjust a good one02:11
DocScrutinizer05seems you forgot N900 been the platform where they rolled out AB iirc02:11
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DocScrutinizer05so don't tell me AB needs mt02:12
Sc0rpiusbut the GOOD games do02:12
jacekowskinot really02:12
Sc0rpiusAB is not a good game, just an addictive one02:12
jacekowskii hate games on phones02:12
jacekowskii've tried02:12
jacekowskibut multitouch control is painful02:12
jacekowskiwhatever you do02:12
Sc0rpiusthey are pretty useful in business meetings02:12
jacekowskiaccelerometer controll isn't perfect either02:12
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jacekowskimouse + keyboard02:13
jacekowskiit's been like that since beggining of the time02:13
jacekowskiand it will never change02:13
JakDaRippamerlin1991, well that sucks. i have a N900 that i will never get rid of. i think it's the best phone ever made. especially once i get everything working correctly.02:14
DocScrutinizer05joystick FTW02:14
DocScrutinizer05JakDaRippa: sorry, no fmms here02:16
DocScrutinizer05~seen frals02:16
infobotfrals is currently on #maemo #harmattan, last said: 'but afaik everything in the script will then be run as root'.02:16
JakDaRippan/p...have a nice day02:16
merlin1991JakDaRippa: frals would be the guy responsible for fmms, thus he might be able to help02:16
DocScrutinizer05JakDaRippa: maybe frals is willing to help02:17
DocScrutinizer05duh, merlin1991 been faster :-D02:17
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DocScrutinizer05frals: ping ^^^02:18
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freemangordonzeq_laptop: I made some more progress with fennec rotation, unfortunately it is still not 100% ok. Will be off for the weekend, so will continue on sunday. If you find some spare time, please upload the source to garage.02:23
* freemangordon waves02:23
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merlin1991freemangordon: did you change it to the usual listen for resize code, or does it still listen to the accelerometer directly?02:25
DocScrutinizer05for the OT-amusement:
DocScrutinizer05I quite obviously am classified as sysadmin by everybody ;-P02:27
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: a business partner had a quite simlilar pic as a status message in skype :D02:28
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DocScrutinizer05I'm missing the catergory "users"02:30
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: they are usually not wihthin your sw dev company ;)02:30
DocScrutinizer05and can't tell apart devels from QA and sysadmins02:31
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DocScrutinizer05so the "as seen by users" row would probably just need one picture02:32
DocScrutinizer05maybe a group photo, similar to "village people"02:33
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merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to devide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without02:34
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infobotmerlin1991 meant: DocScrutinizer05: but you'd have to divide the user group at least into groups with technical knolwedge and without02:34
Atariihahaha that pic is amzing02:35
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ViltzuI probably shouldn't remove gvfs on n900?02:44
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ViltzuLooks like it kind of impossible to even remove P02:52
Hurrianmeh, fremantle system packaging is messed up, too many things that depend on one another02:56
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DocScrutinizer05Viltzu: afaik it's mandatory03:12
DocScrutinizer05Hurrian: indeed03:13
ViltzuDocScrutinizer05: Yeah I tought that too :P03:13
DocScrutinizer05that's the whole point about HAM03:13
DocScrutinizer05and MPR03:13
ViltzuNow this project thing is just 0.4 version numbers to succeed.03:25
Viltzugcc-4.2 is too old. Need gcc-4.6 :P03:25
Viltzu0.4 version numbers away*03:26
ViltzuOkay that sentence is probably all messed up anyway.03:26
ViltzuJust waiting for the _laptop guy.03:29
ViltzuWhere does sbox have gcc binary? O_o04:03
ViltzuNo matter how I try to delete it it always works when I write "gcc" in terminal...04:03
ViltzuI want it vanished.04:03
DocScrutinizer51chmod -x $(which gcc)04:05
Viltzuuhm? you mean like chmod -x $(gcc-4.2) or what?04:07
ViltzuOh wait hmm04:07
ViltzuOkay not. asd.04:07
DocScrutinizer51no, I meant exavtly ehat I wrote04:08
DocScrutinizer51exactly what*04:08
DocScrutinizer51maybe a-x04:09
ViltzuBut well not working.04:10
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DocScrutinizer51when you're root and it's not working, then a plain gcc neither does04:11
Viltzuin scratchbox I have done apt-get remove gcc gcc-4.204:11
Viltzuit removed them from /usr/bin04:11
Viltzubut when I write "gcc" in terminal it still works and uses 4.2.04:11
ViltzuIt's taking it from scratchbox/compilers/bin? ;U04:12
Viltzuor where. oh gaawd.04:12
DocScrutinizer51well, after # chmod a-x $(which gcc) it wont anymore04:12
Viltzuchmod: too few arguments04:13
DocScrutinizer51unless gcc is a shell alias04:13
Viltzuwell gcc is a symlink or whatever04:14
Viltzugoes to gcc-4.204:14
ViltzuBut yeah chmod says too few arguments04:14
DocScrutinizer51type gcc04:14
DocScrutinizer51and enter04:14
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ViltzuIt runs gcc. (4.2)04:15
DocScrutinizer51type: type gcc<enter>04:15
KaffeeJunky123what's the easiest way to crosscompile qt applications for maemo?04:15
ViltzuSo you don't know what I should do? :)04:15
ViltzuHaven't you asked it already.04:16
Viltzuor deja vu or you are a bot. asd.04:16
DocScrutinizer51~ # type echo04:16
DocScrutinizer51echo is a shell builtin04:16
Viltzugcc is hashed (/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc)04:17
Viltzuso it is taking it from there.. mm.04:17
DocScrutinizer51which gcc04:18
Viltzumm what? gcc runs version 4.2.04:18
DocScrutinizer51type: which gcc<enter>04:18
ViltzuOh so you were serious when you told me to write exactly as you said.04:19
ViltzuWait a sec.04:19
ViltzuOkay now when I did chmod a-x $(which gcc)04:20
Viltzuit says changing permissions of '/scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc': Operation not permitted04:20
ViltzuOh right, as root. Not inside of scratchbox.04:22
DocScrutinizer51type: sudo chroot a-x €(which gcc)04:22
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Viltzualtough outside of scratchbox it would do it to wrong gcc.04:22
DocScrutinizer51noooo, not outside of SB!04:22
Viltzuye ye I got it already.04:22
Viltzusudo is just yelling "must be setuid root"04:23
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DocScrutinizer51aah, messybox04:23
DocScrutinizer51try: su04:24
ViltzuDon't have.04:24
DocScrutinizer51try: root04:24
DocScrutinizer51try: sudo gainroot04:24
Viltzunope (must be setuid root)04:25
DocScrutinizer51try: fakeroot04:25
Viltzuworks. And then?04:25
DocScrutinizer51chmod a-x /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc04:26
ViltzuOkay. which gcc would work too. (returns that path)04:26
Viltzugcc works still.04:27
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ViltzuShould I exit this fakeroot thing somehow?04:27
DocScrutinizer51type: id04:27
Viltzuuid=0(root) gid=0(root) groups=4(adm),20(dialout),24(cdrom),46(plugdev),105,119,122,1000(maemo),100104:28
DocScrutinizer51type: exit04:28
DocScrutinizer51type: id04:28
DocScrutinizer51type: rehash04:29
Viltzuuid=1000(maemo) gid=1000(maemo) and the rest is same.04:29
Viltzucommand not found04:29
DocScrutinizer51type: ls -l $(which gcc)04:29
ViltzuCan't I just remove/rename compilers/bin/gcc as a root outside of sbox?04:29
DocScrutinizer51sb is a chroot04:30
DocScrutinizer51so: no04:30
Viltzulrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Oct 28 2010 /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc -> sb_gcc_wrapper04:30
DocScrutinizer51mv /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc /scratchbox/compilers/bin/gcc_away04:32
DocScrutinizer51maybe need fakeroot again04:32
ViltzuI have a feeling that will not work. Should I fak...04:32
Viltzupermission denied :u04:33
DocScrutinizer51well, anyway you probably should edit sb_gcc_wrapper in the end04:35
Viltzuok.... so what I should do? :>04:35
DocScrutinizer51to point to your new gcc4-604:35
DocScrutinizer51or just wait til somebody with a clue takes over04:36
Viltzuuhm. I'm waiting.04:36
DocScrutinizer51I'm actually lost in this sbox djungle04:36
DocScrutinizer51I'd have tought when you do fakeroot; apt-get remove gcc04:37
DocScrutinizer51in sbox04:37
DocScrutinizer51it should kill your gcc04:37
Viltzuit will remove just /usr/bin/gcc but thats useless :P04:38
Viltzuthough I haven't done it as fakeroot04:38
Viltzuwould that change anything+04:38
DocScrutinizer51I dunno which gcc is used in sbox, some ARM gcc, or some x86    sbox specific gcc, or even your PC's gcc04:42
DocScrutinizer51you should check in sb_gcc_wrapper what that does04:42
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DocScrutinizer51or wait until somebody kicks in here who has a clue already04:43
DocScrutinizer51aiui freemangordon should already have done all this04:43
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DocScrutinizer51he will be back on Sunday iirc04:44
Viltzuk.. ;u04:46
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ViltzuOkay no need to get rid of that thing anymore.05:19
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Macerwayland inc. bought apple06:55
Macerin 2020 when apple was on the brink of bankruptcy06:55
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*** ruskie has joined #maemo07:31 seems that the CA results thread on TMO got pretty ugly07:33
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freemangordonHurrian:become? It's been that way for the past few days.08:37
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MohammadAGmorning, the situation on tmo is bad11:43
Neutron__what do you mean by bad?11:49
NIN101the CA11:50
Hurrianit's awful, really.11:51
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Hurrianside note, I have noticed that abill_uk is back, and stirring up noise (not the good kind) on TMO once again12:00
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jonwilFinally found a repair place that can fix my N900 :)12:37
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jonwilGoing to take a couple weeks for the parts to arrive though12:48
jonwilI will keep using my phone in the mean time12:49
jonwiland just be careful of the broken front bezel12:49
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merlin1991gotta love
NIN101let's see how this mess develops.14:24
vi__It is not pretty. Things are getting personal now.14:26
merlin1991and I still don't see why people are so worked up14:26
vi__merlin1991: because they did not win.14:26
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merlin1991Ie the council members shouldn't get *free* stuff was discussed on the mailing list long before the submission period started14:27
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vi__merlin1991: what was the conclusion to the discussion?14:27
merlin1991it's fine14:27
merlin1991int other words not what the people in the thread claim14:28
merlin1991see and the follow ups14:30
ViltzuWhen I'm doing make it will search headers and why not from /opt/maemo/usr/include when it should be getting them fron /usr/include14:31
ViltzuWhat to do?14:31
merlin1991Viltzu: did you move the hearders there by hand?14:32
merlin1991or did they get installed there?14:32
ViltzuThey were installed there14:32
ViltzuI'm using tanners gcc-4.414:32
NIN101of course the people who got one won't complain. I didn't even apply (so it should be kinda neutral), but my main point of criticism are  the intransparent decisions. For some, it's obvious why they deserve one, but for others, it's not. One sentence in the wiki about the why's is apparently to much to ask for, and no, I am not going to read tons of messed up threads on TMO where a dicsussion took place.  I also doubt the CA will help in saving14:32
NIN101maemo, at least fremantle.14:32
merlin1991also "make" does not search for headers14:32
vi__could you make aegis look at a copy of the file system somewhere else all the while editing the real /etc/?14:33
vi__NIN101: what do you think will be the result of listing why a persons achievments are not good enough?14:34
Viltzumerlin1991: well yeah. But what I should now do? Should I just cp to the right place. I tried to create symlink for the dir to the right place but then it says Too many symbolic links :P14:34
merlin1991which header exactly are you missing?14:34
ViltzuAnd those can be found from /usr/include/c++/4.4/ and so on.14:35
merlin1991Viltzu: build the make file with the verbosity flag from cmake, so that you see the actual call to gcc14:36
NIN101vi_: some kind of transparency.14:36
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Viltzumerlin1991, set(CMAKE_VERBOSE_MAKEFILE on) in CMakeLists.txt?14:40
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merlin1991I'd check what /home/maemo/cbE/src/precomp.h really includes on line 714:44
merlin1991because the gcc call contains no hint to opt14:44
merlin1991unless the gcc itself has fubar opt searchpaths it has to be in the sources14:45
Viltzu#include <map> on line 7.14:45
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merlin1991Viltzu: hm, CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS ?14:47
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merlin1991the environment variables CFLAGS / CPPFLAGS are read by gcc aswell14:48
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ViltzuUhm. That doesn't say really anything to me :)14:49
merlin1991do echo $CFLAGS14:50
merlin1991and echo $CPPFLAGS14:50
merlin1991and see if they contain anything odd14:50
Viltzuis that odd that they are empty?14:50
merlin1991no that is normal :)14:50
merlin1991hm then it has to be your gcc :/14:50
ViltzuI'm using tanners gcc 4.4. Added the repo and installed via apt-get.14:51
merlin1991I've never used it, so I don't have any hands on experience14:51
merlin1991also lunch14:51
vi__NIN101: so if it was published "nitroid has had 0 positive effect on maemo community therefore coder does not win".  Do you think there would be no arguments?14:51
NIN101there would be. But at least we would know the WHYs. WHY someone got one, and why another didn't.14:54
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DocScrutinizer05who cares?15:06
DocScrutinizer05look - *if* I had applied I would know for sure about the true reasons why I wouldn't have received one15:07
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DocScrutinizer05so for the "why not" it's usually very obvious. For the "why anybody at all received this 'Award' ?" I already elaborated yesterday with woody that I fail to see the point of this whole action/mess, and in my opinion council better had kept the whole pool for handing out spare devices on a by-demand basis15:10
NIN101my main point is:  without reasons I can think this is a farce. Why should I believe the opposite?15:11
DocScrutinizer05it is, you don't need to think opposite15:11
vi__NIN101: Without discussing individual cases we are 'beating around the bush'15:11
jacekowskiif it were up to me, there would be no CA and no problems15:12
jacekowskimaemo is pretty much a dead platform15:12
jacekowskiwho cares15:12
DocScrutinizer05meego is15:12
vi__So is amiga OS, what is your point?15:12
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: on no DDP ever the reasons been discussed in public - we all agreed this would be useless public bashing for all those who failed15:14
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kwtmI've had 2 cases now where I did not get a chance to recharge the N900 before it shut down due to low battery, and now the battery appears useless (tried recharging it via another N900 and from external Nokia charger, with no response).  Is this a known phenomenon or should I expect to be able to have usable batteries after N900 shuts down from battery low?15:16
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jacekowskikwtm: plug it in into usb charger15:17
jacekowskikwtm: and wait few hours15:17
DocScrutinizer05and honestly, you'll *always* find "better" rationale and winners in a public aftermath than those who did the hard job of selecting came up with. and it helps exactly nothing but adds tention and noise to community15:17
kwtmjacekowski: Hmm... I had plugged it into charge for a while, and the charger light even changed to blue from pink, so I thought it was fully charged.  Wonder if it's the N900 itself. Maybe I can try a "universal" charger instead of Nokia's.15:18
DocScrutinizer05err WUT15:18
DocScrutinizer05yeah ?????15:19
kwtmno pink -> blue15:19
vi__wtf even more.15:19
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DocScrutinizer05there's neither blue nor pink involved in charging indication15:19
kwtmAh.  When you say USB charger you mean the N900 itself?  I was talking about an external charger.15:20
DocScrutinizer05the supposed colors are amber (red + green) and green (just green)15:20
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kwtmI'm going to see if I can dig up an alternate battery for my N900, just to prove to myself it's the battery, and then I'll fiddle with the battery.15:21
DocScrutinizer05if you get blue and pink, it seems you got a pre-summit device with messed up indicator LED hardwiring15:22
DocScrutinizer05that got flashed with standard software15:22
vi__DocScrutinizer05: that doesnt exist.15:24
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DocScrutinizer05you can look up the actual swap of colors in lp5523.c for yourself15:24
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vi__Possibly a second hand device with a modified MCE.ini15:24
DocScrutinizer05you can't modify mce.ini in a way that even NOLO would change to pink15:25
DocScrutinizer05not to mention hardwired amber of emergency charging15:25
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, resetting mce.ini to defaults is a sane suggestion :-)15:26
DocScrutinizer05we've seen devices with smoked-up green in 3-color LED15:27
DocScrutinizer05which gave some strange notification colors15:27
DocScrutinizer05of course15:27
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: you shouldn't deplete battery til emergency shutdown15:28
DocScrutinizer05you shouldn't try to reboot device with depleted battery.15:28
DocScrutinizer05and yes, eventually battery will just cease to work in very much the way you descriobed15:29
DocScrutinizer05no, any "universal charger" usually will way more likely kill your battery than treat it nice15:30
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: I dunno what acme-bat-apps and supadupa-kernels incl borked modules you got installed on your N900. I suggest: a) get fresh and charged BL-5J, *FLASH* your N900 to stock kernel and no too 1337 apps, try using it in a normal way, see if that pans out15:32
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DocScrutinizer05b) try charging the supposedly broken battery in external charger and see what operational time it gives you in N900 till shutdown. Use script to produce a nice log of battery current and voltage, come back here and offer that log for analysis15:35
zeq_laptopHi guys!15:39
vi__good morning squire.15:40
zeq_laptopHello vi__15:40
zeq_laptopafternoon here :)15:40
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
zeq_laptopthanks infobot15:42
zeq_laptopdidn't know that15:42
zeq_laptopmornig vi__ :)15:43
infobotzeq_laptop meant: morning vi__ :)15:43
zeq_laptoptyping like it's the morning!15:43
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: in case you missed it, his led colours were not from the n900 but from an external charger :D15:46
DocScrutinizer05damn, was searching WTF this pre-summit-color-swap #ifdef been ;-P15:46
DocScrutinizer05extremely funny detail you can learn from proofreading driver sources15:47
DocScrutinizer05I'm afraid they refctored it out in later upstreamed versions15:48
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RaimuMmm... pink n900...15:50
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DocScrutinizer05maybe was on N81015:54
vi__merlin1991: wait..what?15:55
vi__such a minor piece of information.15:55
vi__We have failed as engineers.15:55
vi__We assumed he was talking about the n900 LED.15:56
vi__You know what they say; when you assume, you make a total cock of yourself.15:56
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DocScrutinizer06dman reconnects15:58
DocScrutinizer06spaming questions relating to a clearly defined hw topic with random shit drawn from unrelated other hw isn't exactly helping15:58
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, vi_ you might enjoy this mxr line ref I posted above16:02
DocScrutinizer0531 #ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG 32 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM                0x04 33 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM                0x02 34 #else 35 #define LP5521_REG_R_PWM                0x02 36 #define LP5521_REG_B_PWM                0x04 37 #endif16:02
vi__#ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG16:02
DocScrutinizer05obviously for some prototypes they swapped red and blue LED16:03
DocScrutinizer05and I *seem* to recall somebody inside NOK told me this been for the pre-summit N900, where maybe they still used lp5521.ko to drive the indicator LED16:05
DocScrutinizer05vi__: your "that doesn't exist" based on hard facts?16:09
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: you know pre-summit device owners always been supposed to NOT flash standard software, and rather wait for the special build that Nokia may or may not provoide for their very special devices16:10
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* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how such bord specific defines belong into $chipdriver.c16:19
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DocScrutinizer05I mean it's not like as the chip had written "RED" to pin4 and "BLUE" to pin5. This may change massively for any other board using LP552316:20
DocScrutinizer05clear case of vendor specific driver sources that aren't exactly fit for upstreaming16:21
vi__DocScrutinizer05: I was partially joking.16:22
DocScrutinizer05not that the LP5523 driver was any good for upstreaming anyway, regarding the very partial implementation of chip properties16:22
DocScrutinizer05LP5523 can do iirc 96 program steps, "partitioned" in arbitrary ways between the 3 engines. lp5523.c allows a mere 16 steps per engine, wasting the other 48 steps16:23
DocScrutinizer05(actually wasting only 47, as they use one step for default LED mapping/muxing)16:24
DocScrutinizer05pretty retarded design for a generic upstream linux LP5523 driver16:25
MohammadAG#ifdef LED_CONNECTED_WRONG <-- lololol16:27
MohammadAGanyway, who wants to fix tmo's community awards thread16:27
MohammadAGit's going downhill, fast16:27
MohammadAGI expect the next meetup to be a riot16:27
* DocScrutinizer05 glances at the dusty yellow end of his ToDo list and spots "fix lp5523.c to allow full use of all chip features, esp. the doubled program step storage space"16:28
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: ping chem|st16:28
HurrianMohammadAG, how do you calm down angry TMOers who want their phones?16:28
zeq_laptopfinally managed to build gcc-linaro-4.7-2012.06 ARM cross-compiler for scratchbox.  (only x86_64 atm, might need an actual x86 distro to build 32bit; canadian-cross doesn't seem to be working...)16:28
MohammadAGthis isn't a mod thing DocScrutinizer0516:29
MohammadAGit needs to be handled well by the council16:29
DocScrutinizer05so what you gonna do now, boy?16:29
MohammadAGHurrian, tbh I see why they're angry16:29
DocScrutinizer05I'm way more concerned about
MohammadAGI'm more concerned about the theme he's using16:30
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DocScrutinizer05no, same here, with my theme16:31
DocScrutinizer05I suspect a fsckup in mysql16:31
MohammadAGHurrian, you don't fix this, you cancel results and change judges16:31
MohammadAGI suspect a fuck up in viewthread.php16:31
MohammadAGor the fact he's french16:31
MohammadAGI kid, I kid16:32
HurrianMohammadAG, probably changed email and didnt confirm16:32
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: so speak up, it's apitty a lot of people do not speak up16:32
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, it's no use16:32
vi__ZogG_laptop: It is no use.  You will get flamed in half.16:32
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: why not?16:32
MohammadAGexactly that16:32
ZogG_laptopvi__: i tried to be general and ask straight question16:33
vi__ZogG_laptop: which was?16:33
MohammadAGregardless this won't be fixed16:33
DocScrutinizer05 works when I post it. same with s/p=1226165/p=1226193/ doesn't16:33
* vi__ gingerly approaches the can of worms.16:33
ZogG_laptopbut i was ignored and council and defenders instead of answering just picked up those who was less reasonable and used it to put all of us in same boat to call all of us trolls =)16:33
MohammadAGI'm thinking of submitting something to the Qt 5 awards16:34
MohammadAGor the app awards16:34
MohammadAGand if I win, give the N9 I won there to someone16:34
DocScrutinizer05I'm thinking of declaring community officially entered lunatic state at 2012-06-2016:34
ZogG_laptopvi__: how it is possible that the same competition can be judged by peple in list16:35
ZogG_laptopvi__: it's not about if they worth or not16:35
DocScrutinizer05maybe even a few weeks before16:35
HurrianDocScrutinizer05, the entire community awards thing has been hectic for maemo.org16:35
ZogG_laptopbut most answeres were personal and about how worth they are... but it's not related16:35
jaskamake a cname for
MohammadAGit's not right16:36
MohammadAGI agree about that16:36
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ZogG_laptopjaska: it's easy to call troll anyone who has his own point of view and try to prove it? than other person is not less troll than first as there are always two sides of coins16:36
MohammadAGwhether they deserve it or not, you can't have judges in a competition16:36
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DocScrutinizer05I stated my "official" POV regarding the whole CA several times, won't repeat16:37
jaskazogg: i wasnt referring to any specific conversation. just think that the name would fit.16:37
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: than speak up, they just say it's only 4 people and they ignore reasonable things and answer for those who just really not releated16:37
DocScrutinizer05council need and always had all hardware for reference purposes16:37
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: what reference?16:38
vi__Easy.  The council win automatically as they have been selected as the community champions.  The rest of the loot goes to whomever they decide should win.16:38
DocScrutinizer05mixing this up with a CA is a terrible idea, but no worries as the whole CA been a rather toxic idea in itself16:38
ZogG_laptopvi__: how is it possible, i didn't choose them as a lot of people who don't want to be in politics16:38
ZogG_laptopas well as i think there are more worthy and reasonable people to be council(not all curent memebers but few)but they understand those resposobilities and don't want to take them, as others who want don't understand them16:40
vi__ZogG_laptop: no, however they were elected fairly.16:40
ZogG_laptoplook at MohammadAG he even don't want to speak up, as he doesn't want to ennter politics here, as a lot of reasonable people don't too. but i just feel if i don't speak up no one will, than it would pass like it was okay16:41
ZogG_laptopvi__: so? how is it related? than lets make community award judged by memebers16:41
ZogG_laptopthose two things that they were elected as council do not related16:41
ZogG_laptopand if, those people to judge16:42
ZogG_laptopi would never say if i'm elected i worth to win in community.16:42
MohammadAGvi_, it was  tough choice, 5 got elected and 5 got chosen16:42
ZogG_laptopit's like your work manager would give price to himself16:42
ZogG_laptopwhat? he is mamanger already means he works harder than others and is promoted so all money prices would go to him automaticaly?16:43
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: hm?16:43
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, we barely got a council this year iirc16:43
DocScrutinizer05I honestly think we need a way to vote "void"16:44
DocScrutinizer05if amount of void votes > amount of votes for a candidate, the candidate won't get elected16:44
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MohammadAGthen typedef Sam void; typedef Jill void, typedef John void and we have a new council16:45
DocScrutinizer05if that results in _no_ council at all, after elections, so be it16:45
ZogG_laptopvi__: for example few people think you don't deserve, but i don't really care, as this is their choice and always someone will think it's not right, so i'm neutral here whenever i think you have right or not. But self judging is something different16:45
MohammadAGtbh, itsnotabigtruck should get one16:46
MohammadAGinception, although hated by some, was useful16:46
MohammadAGplus he's helpful on IRC16:46
FIQ|n900hm... a council with 1 attending16:46
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MohammadAGI usually don't vote people up, but since he's not here :P16:46
DocScrutinizer05anyway, this cheese is eaten16:46
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MohammadAGe-yes might have helped with NITDroid, but I'm not sure if that merits a device16:47
MohammadAGnothing personal, it's just not the _maemo_ community16:47
MohammadAGand without referencing names, closed source people shouldn't get a device16:47
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: today when everything falling down we need few people to lead community, but here i mean dids and not talking and showing how important them. it's mostly come from people that don't show themselve too much and not seen too much. I think a good example is X-Fade. i don't see him active lately in communication, but i know he makes a lot contribution with repos and cobs and other stuff16:47
MohammadAGit's COMMUNITY!! awards16:47
vi__ZogG_laptop: what a load of shit.16:48
vi__The employees do not CHOOSE the manager.16:48
MohammadAGthey get fired if they don't? :P16:48
vi__Nokia, yeah.16:48
vi__NOKIA decided who would choose the winners.16:49
vi__The people who provided the prizes.16:49
ZogG_laptopvi__: sometimes people change after they got promoted btw and in normal company the promoting people gather data about person from co-wokers16:49
vi__ZogG_laptop: the analogy is invalid.  Drop it.16:49
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, there's nothing you could do now16:50
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MohammadAGif anything would make you feel better, submit an app to the app awards and give your N9 to someone else16:50
ZogG_laptopvi__: it's make me angry and amusing, that you think i'm less stuborn than you, as i think it is the same example16:50
MohammadAGI'm actually thinking of doing that for itsnotabigtruck16:50
MohammadAGnothing personal, his shit helped me, his shit can't be submitted to those awards16:51
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: actually i thought of it, as i should recieve N9 soon on other award16:51
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MohammadAGZogG_laptop, you won in community awards?16:51
MohammadAGI never memorized the list tbh16:51
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: nope16:52
MohammadAGthe only problem is I can't submit for an N950 in the Qt awards16:52
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i don't worth it16:52
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, then keep the device if you win it16:52
MohammadAGI'd give it away cause I have one16:52
MohammadAGand itsnotabigtruck has an N916:52
MohammadAGno use in giving him anothero ne16:52
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i read Estel submition, i'm in the same position as ± Estel position, when there are those who worth way more16:52
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: you can take n9 and send n950 as well16:53
MohammadAGagain, I don't like saying X doesn't deserve something16:53
ZogG_laptopbut the problem you want it as dev kit and not phone16:53
MohammadAGbarely use it as a phone tbh16:53
MohammadAGhave an iPhone for that16:54
MohammadAGor a Lumia, which I barely use16:54
MohammadAGI wonder if anyone needs an N90016:54
MohammadAGconsidering sending one away16:54
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i know i don't. i think i helped a bit and tried to be always helpful and straight, but it's should come from any community memeber. Just their knowledge is different and they can't always code. But there are people like you or pali or itsnotthatbigtruck, who just deserve it, and they do not only a lot but opens source and for free. that's who deserve16:55
DocScrutinizer05it's incredible how such a silly giveaway is poisoning community. In my book all the free stuff in apps and knowledge is 10000 times more precious and appreciable than those 2 dozen devices that everybody gets worked up about now. a sad perspective on state of this community in those tough days16:55
ZogG_laptopthey don't search for glorry or something16:55
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i want n90016:55
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: mine got broken16:56
ZogG_laptopbut on other hand if you leave maemo.... o_O16:56
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: send it to robbiethe1st please!16:56
MohammadAGI have two N900s16:56
* ZogG_laptop is scared with less people like MohammadAG left in community =(16:56
MohammadAGone's mine and one's a DDP16:56
MohammadAGthe DDP one is in near new condition16:57
MohammadAGwell, technically it's just opened from the box and used for three months16:57
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: than if you don't send to robbiethe1st, i'll be more than glad as mine is broken16:57
DocScrutinizer05there are a few really valuable developers that recently got hurt by their N900 breaking16:57
ZogG_laptopi would have a chance to finish the very first app i started and didn't finish16:57
MohammadAGbut never left my desk, I don't take it out or anything since I don't _own_ it16:57
FIQ|n900speaking of new N900s, I should go and get one from second-hand soon as mine is starting to fall apart16:58
vi__ZogG_laptop: If you cannot for a second consider the notion that you are wrong, then it is pointless to discuss anything.16:58
DocScrutinizer05FIQ|n900: good plan :-D16:59
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DocScrutinizer05I'm doing that since several months now16:59
ZogG_laptopvi__: but again you think i'm wrong and i think i'm right. why do you think you are the right one here =)16:59
vi__ZogG_laptop: That is not what I said bro slice.16:59
kwtmCan anyone point me to how to send a text message (SMS) by command-line?  Presumably it starts with  "dbus-send -bla bla bla  MyTextMessage" or something ...16:59
vi__kwtm: N900?17:00
kwtmvi__: Sorry, yes, talking about the N900 here.17:00
FIQ|n900there's a dedicated application for this17:00
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kwtmNot the external battery charger.17:00
vi__kwtm: there is a program (python script) called sms-send.17:00
FIQ|n900whatever it was named17:00
vi__It is in the repos.17:00
FIQ|n900ohh, that17:00
kwtmOk.  I will check it out.  But I actually want to put the command into my shell script (actually my vimscript calls it but that's a minor detail).17:01
kwtmI suppose I can look over the python script to figure out how they did it.  Thanks for the pointers.17:01
vi__kwtm you can invoke sms-send through bash.17:01
FIQ|n900isn't that kinda the point with sms-send? :P17:02
vi__i.e. sms-send <telephone number> <your message here>17:02
kwtmI see.  Ok, will look into that.  I am trying to get my repositories set up, actually, via command line so I will do that first ...17:03
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ZogG_laptopvi__: that is exactly what. as you say  If you cannot for a second consider the ....17:06
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ZogG_laptopi do considered both sides and took mine17:07
vi__ZogG_laptop: how corrupt of you.17:09
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: ~phone-control17:09
* FIQ|n900 see flames17:09
vi__To chose your argument over anothers.  For true transparency you should have automatically discounted your own argument.17:10
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Thanks; I found that page on  .   Do I understand correctly that the entire Python program is there and I don't need to install anything else?  Because I'm in the middle of configuring my new N900 I can't install packages like sms-send without messing with /etc/sources.list.d right now.17:12
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DocScrutinizer05yes :-D17:12
DocScrutinizer05the 3rd one seems most complete and nice one17:13
DocScrutinizer05>>There's also a python script that uses D-Bus instead from<<  <- this one17:16
DocScrutinizer05at least I already used this one and tweaked it for SMSCB rcv, tested to work17:16
kwtmgod I LOOOOVE this N900!17:17
kwtmDisclaimer: it's still a piece of crap.  But it's the BEST piece of crap there is in the world!  :) :)17:17
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: wazzup buddy?17:17
kwtmLooking over the phone control thing, I can't even begin to wrap my mind around the things I haven't had a chance to make my phone do.17:18
kwtmHoly cow, remote control my phone by SMS!?  (And not that "make it play some music" crap from the Android app store.)17:18
vi__kwtm you wait till you discover dbus-scripts and dbus cron.  You are going to shit yourself.17:18
DocScrutinizer05there's an app for that17:18
kwtmYeah, I'm going to have to look into that cron thing ... I'm going to have to use anacron because my phone keeps shutting off by accident (delays in locking screen due to swapping, before I slip it in my pocket and have something bump the "turn off phone" onscreen button)17:19
vi__kwtm: You are now starting to understand why for maemo 'appz' are mostly redundant.17:19
vi__kwtm: dbuscron is...different.17:20
kwtmYeah.  I spent a lot of time on this last year when I got my phone, and finally managed to dump the built-in contacts app and just make phone calls from within Vim.17:20
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kwtmThen I couldn't spend more time on it and the programming got left by the wayside.17:20
DocScrutinizer05and anacron is... :-/. Use alarmed for those purposes17:20
vi__kwtm: you can monitor dbus-system/session for program/hardware events and trigger scripts.17:20
kwtmNow my wife has an iPhone where Siri can read out her text messages.  And I'm thinking, "big deal.  I have espeak for that."17:21
kwtmCan't wait to start using vimscript text processing to send sms. :)17:21
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vi__kwtm: You want to have the time in russia spoken to you in chinese through espeak whenever you cover the proximity sensor WHILE the keyboard is open AND it is past 3AM?  You can use dbus-scripts/dbuscron.17:21
kwtmvi__: I'll start with just reminding me there's a SMS waiting.  There's an app for that, so I need to get my act together and set up the repositories on this thing.17:22
DocScrutinizer05dbus cron - a really poor naming for this dbus-scripting epigone17:22
vi__kwtm: you are thinking of sms-notify.17:22
kwtmvi__: Yeah ... I don't suppose that's a simple Python program I can cut and paste, is it?  (I guess it needs to access cron or something ... is that built-in?)17:23
vi__kwtm: just bear in mind, when you start loading the N900 up with all this 'stuff' you will chip away at the battery life.17:23
vi__kwtm: sms-notify is a pythin script.17:23
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: there is no cron on maemo, that's called alarmd17:24
kwtmYeah, don't rub it in about the battery life.  I can't believe I have 4 batteries and 2 of them may possibly be completely useless.  And I can't find the 3rd.  I have to get stuff from my old N900 transferred to the new.17:24
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kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Right, I remember reading about alarmd.  Same syntax as cron or something else I should read up on?17:24
LaoLang_coolWhat packages do I need to compile the simple C program on n900?17:24
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: there's an app called alarmed that interfaces to libalarmd and gives you cron-alike cmdline API17:24
kwtmvi__: I meant whether I can paste in the script for sms-notify, or do I need to install the package.17:24
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: ... plus a nice GUI API on top, as alternative way to handle stuff17:25
kwtmThe other thing I want to do, if possible, is to have the status icons (e.g. battery charging, on 3g network, etc.) show an icon for when Fn or Shift is pressed.  Why wasn't that already built in? :P17:25
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: that's why I deprecated anacron and suggested you look into alarmed app17:26
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Thx for the tips.17:26
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vi__kwtm: for maximum battery life:17:28
vi__1. purchase a 1500mAH battery.17:29
vi__2. Install a kernel with smart reflex supported.17:29
ZogG_laptopvi__: it's easy for me as my argument was the first one =) as i pointed out the fact of 4/5 got phone17:29
DocScrutinizer05or a good *real* 1320mA genuine BL-5J Nokia battery17:29
kwtmvi__: It would have been ok if N900 shut down before the battery got to 0%.  I *had* 4 batteries to swap between, and an external charger.17:29
kwtmI do have a real 1320mA battery with the hologram on it.  I hope it can be rescued ...17:30
DocScrutinizer05vi__: numbers please! I have no smartrelflex and get pretty decent standby times17:30
vi__DocScrutinizer05: We shall have to disagree on this.  We will not agree.  I am a *HEAVY* N900 user.  I know what works for me.17:30
DocScrutinizer05odds are with any special kernel you import other battery hogs without even noticing17:31
vi__DocScrutinizer05: Powertop is a great tool.17:31
RaimuI have a genuine Nokia battery that came with the phone, but it only gives something like 1050mA.17:31
DocScrutinizer05still no hard numbers on smart reflex17:31
vi__DocScrutinizer05: do you 'believe' in undervolting?17:31
RaimuHaven't ever gotten good standby times on any configuration, though.17:32
DocScrutinizer05tbh no I don't17:32
vi__DocScrutinizer05: You are an electronic engineer.17:32
DocScrutinizer05yes, and thus I know exactly that undervolting will make a difference only for the times when CPU is *active*17:33
DocScrutinizer05for a decent standby time you want to minimize those time periods17:33
DocScrutinizer05both in duration and frequency17:33
vi__DocScrutinizer05: definatley, however the CPU MUST awaken from time to time.17:34
vi__So for maximum battery life I must leave my n900 switched off?17:34
RaimuDocScrutinizer05: I've been wondering -- what sort of a thing can you remove from a stock configuration of a n900 with nothing l33t installed to lessen the amount of CPU wakes?17:34
DocScrutinizer05for the times when cpu is NOT in C5, you still save maximum maybe 10% of CPU(!) power consumption, while a lot of the total device power consumption is for things not related to CPU at all17:35
RaimuI get the part where one doesn't install suspicious widgets or script.17:35
vi__DocScrutinizer05: we are arguing for different cases here.17:35
DocScrutinizer05Raimu: some nonsensical desktop widgets maybe17:35
DocScrutinizer05skype !!17:35
DocScrutinizer05any other IM app17:35
RaimuYeah, Skype is a complete hog when it's on.17:36
vi__Raimu: If you are online: skype, nokia messaging, IM etc.17:37
DocScrutinizer05vi__: you stated SmartReflex as number one measure to get a decent standby time - that's plain wrong17:37
vi__DocScrutinizer05: No I did not.17:37
DocScrutinizer05right, your 1500mAh battery been #117:37
vi__DocScrutinizer05: I included it in a list of things to 'use/do' to get long battery life.17:37
vi__number 3 on the list would have been:17:37
vi__3. Minimise junk that wakes up the CPU.17:38
DocScrutinizer05which actually is #1 in priority and effectiveness, by far17:38
vi__DocScrutinizer05: I did not state the list was organised by importance.17:38
vi__DocScrutinizer05: I said we will not agree!17:39
vi__But doc is right.  The most important one is minimise junk that keeps the cpu awake.17:39
DocScrutinizer05well, if you like to disagree, I'm fine with that ;-P17:40
DocScrutinizer05let's agree we don't agree to disagree17:41
vi__I do not agree with this.17:41
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kwtmOk, all, let's just disagree about disagreeing with this.17:43
RaimuThat's too conformist. I'll agree.17:43
kwtmInstead you should all help me with this Really Weighty Problem: what command line can I call to make the N900 make a short beep?17:43
kwtmI've gotten it to send a text message but I want to indicate that it was done, hence a short beep/click or something.  Is it "play click.wav" or something?17:44
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DocScrutinizer05kwtm: playsound </full/path7to/yourwav>17:45
RaimuActually play-sound.17:46
infobotmethinks jrtools is
vi__mplayer yoursound.wav17:48
vi__screen notification17:48
vi__i.e. a pop-up balloon thing.17:48
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DocScrutinizer05all way too much overhead to establish the playback stack, imho17:50
DocScrutinizer05play-sound is (almost too) lightweight17:50
DocScrutinizer05downside: no volume control17:51
DocScrutinizer05iow it's unclear which policy play-sound is using17:51
DocScrutinizer05and quite obviously play-sound has no option to choose the policy for playback of your sound17:52
DocScrutinizer05if anybody knows better detail on that topic, I'd appreciate to listen and learn17:53
DocScrutinizer05I actually haven't investigated if you maybe can control play-sound volume via system-signal-volume setting, or anything else17:54
DocScrutinizer05I just know it doesn't follow the generic volume control, just mutes on profile "silent"17:55
DocScrutinizer05kwtm: nevertheless hope that helps17:56
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Thanks.  I tried play-sound, but it keeps saying "ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt"17:56
kwtmmplayer works, so I'll use that for now.  I'll deal with the startup delay later.17:57
DocScrutinizer05hmm, you try to play non-.wav ?17:57
kwtmDocScrutinizer05: Oh, the built-in ringtones, and also .mp3.  SHould I be using sox instead?  I do have mplayer installed already so I guess I'll just use that.17:57
DocScrutinizer05try: /usr/bin/play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-charging_started.wav17:59
DocScrutinizer05cranking up mplayer is a heavy operation18:00
DocScrutinizer05I'd guess18:00
RaimuDocScrutinizer05: Ever did the "ramp up brightness slowly" script?18:02
Neutron__does anyone have any experience with cheapo chinese 3G antennas?18:02
DocScrutinizer05Raimu: nope18:02
ViltzuWhy glxinfo doesn't give anymore info when setting LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose18:03
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DocScrutinizer05Raimu: the flaw in this concept: pushing lockswitch already enables screen backlight instantly18:05
DocScrutinizer05so I'd have to deal with that, in a way that I ramp down screen brightness to zero whenever screen gets locked/dimmed18:06
DocScrutinizer05and that's the point where mce and its plugins being closed starts pissing me18:06
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DocScrutinizer05the insane bug of indicator LED breathing light getting dimmed to nearly invisible brightness whenever you lock the device in bright sunlight being another such point18:09
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DocScrutinizer05I mean, which insane crazy rationale might have resulted in THAT?18:10
DocScrutinizer05tbh all ALS related stuff feels rather "green" and incomplete beta state18:11
DocScrutinizer05I actually already pondered several times to kill the ALS driver all together18:12
RaimuYeh, that's dumb.18:14
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RaimuI actually originally thought there's something wrong with the n900 before I realized there's some adaptive lighting scheme playing with the screen, for instance.18:15
RaimuSitting in some random room and then the screen goes darker, brighter, darker again.18:16
vi__I thought MCE was more or less exposed in meego?18:16
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DocScrutinizer05nope, it's a crippled version Nokia disclosed for meego's /mer's sake18:26
DocScrutinizer05like they did so many times. For mer/meego they disclosed things within 5 days after stskeeps asking for it, while same stuff been on a "please disclose" list for fremantle since literally years18:29
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DocScrutinizer05then they disclose stuff they think will suffice for meego, and don't care about fremantle and the disclosure-request there, not even to the point of *letting us know* they just disclosed (parts of) the stuff for meego purposes. We had to spot the rocks on gittorious by random finding18:30
* RST38h yawns18:31
RST38hEHLO, gentlemen18:31
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DocScrutinizer05quite a nasty way to treat your community18:31
DocScrutinizer05hi RST38h18:31
RST38hWhazzup, Doc? Some source code got disclosed?18:31
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DocScrutinizer05nah, just rant about age old mce "disclosure"18:31
DocScrutinizer05nevermind, actually18:32
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: I'm just still missing the sources for *our* mce, so I could finally fix some annoying bugs the easy way18:33
DocScrutinizer05like the "dim notifications LED, after locking device in bright sunlight" bug18:34
DocScrutinizer05I'm not all that alarmed about it since I learnt about the root cause, but it's still annoying silly a bug18:35
RST38hSure it is because of sunlight?18:36
DocScrutinizer05and fixing it would mean RE of mce binary, and patching in some bytes18:36
* RST38h is more annoyed about device going out of locked state every time it is plugged in18:36
DocScrutinizer05not exactly18:36
DocScrutinizer05why that?18:37
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DocScrutinizer05well, I agree it should be a user config option in mce.ini18:37
RST38hNo idea, this misfeature has been introduced around PR 1.218:37
DocScrutinizer05but after all you *could* fix it via a tiny scriptie for dbus-scripting18:38
RST38hI plug it into charger for a night and do not want it to wake up at that time18:38
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: probably some designer opened a ticket "doesn't unlock screen on plugin to charger, so chargeing notification goes unnoticed"18:39
DocScrutinizer05and you know, design is sacrosanct. when they demand sth, it gets done that way18:40
DocScrutinizer05no matter if developers thing "what a pile of BS!"18:40
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DocScrutinizer05developers otoh won't do a sane requirements spec including some config key, when such a change request from design dept. comes in18:42
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DocScrutinizer05somebody is picking the ticket, hacks some 5 lines of code, tests and delivers it, and next PR it gets rolled out18:42
DocScrutinizer05you probably dafely could roll back to previous mce version18:43
RST38hDoc: Yeah, designers are of course the final decision makers on everything18:45
RST38hand the middle management18:45
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: are you sure it's not related to your setting of "keep backlight on when on charger"?18:45
RST38hI have this option off18:45
DocScrutinizer05I don't, so I didn't even notice this change when pr1.2 update came18:46
Corsachmhm, I didn't know there was such an option18:46
Corsac(or is it on Maemo 5?)18:47
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DocScrutinizer05sure on maemo519:09
DocScrutinizer05what else?19:10
DocScrutinizer05I fail to recall if it's a standard display settings option, or in tweakr, or just in mce.ini19:11
DocScrutinizer05but definitely on fremantle/maemo519:11
* RST38h remembers disabling it but does not remember where19:11
DocScrutinizer05T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -< display -> "backlight during charging"19:13
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: T900: (pre-pr1.3) settings -> display -> "backlight during charging"19:13
DocScrutinizer052nd checkbox from top19:13
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DocScrutinizer05and yes, I think it's been there since very beginning of maemo519:15
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* DocScrutinizer05 lols @ CA thread. Council hardly came into existence at all, nobody sane would have expected it to perform in an extraordinarily perfect way. Now it shows this expectations were all justified, and a few go nuts about that fact?19:18
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DocScrutinizer05you elected them, you got them. You didn't run for council yourselves. There's not been a way to vote void as I suggested last time a few minutes ago. That's what you get, live with it, or do sth about it. discussing in aftermath how this CA thing got handled is plain futile and poisonous to community at large19:21
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DocScrutinizer05(unless of course you hope for "educating the council members how to do it right" - something at least the most agressive and annoying one of the bunch already refused to ever do)19:23
DocScrutinizer05(to change own behaviour that is)19:24
NIN101to me it seemed (and seems still) council doesn't have real power anyway, so it doesn't matter.19:25
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vi___wtf is aries damage?19:26
vi___or is he just a mad jelly butthurt bellbag?19:26
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vi___everyone is carefully trying to avoid listing the negative points of entrants in order to save a 'public bashing'19:28
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: the more I'm feeling tempted to kick in and argue when e.g. FMG claims "council supposed to *lead* the community for the next 6 months" (owtte)19:28
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DocScrutinizer05fsck NO! they are meant to *represent* us, not to lead and govern us19:29
DocScrutinizer05nobody will govern and "lead" the community19:29
DocScrutinizer05alas it seems quite a number of people incl most of council staff got it wrong on that minor detail19:31
DocScrutinizer05like if 10% of "community" elected a dictator quintett to rule the other 90% to obey to what those 10% of douchebags (usually very new to community as well) think things should be like19:32
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DocScrutinizer05"we rule! be with us or be under us"19:33
DocScrutinizer05no Sir!19:33
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Lava_Crofttestosteron powers so many great things19:35
DocScrutinizer05I got my very own idea why most of council refused to publish a photo of themselves19:36
Lava_Croftpeople want the council to show a photo of themselves?19:37
Lava_Croftthats a great idea, certainly on the internet19:37
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm doing this even while I'm not a council candadate19:37
Lava_Croftposting a photo of yourself?19:38
DocScrutinizer05and I expect that from anybody asking for my vote, on any role whatsoever19:38
Lava_Croftyou do?19:38
Lava_Crofthow is their physical appearance in any way related19:38
utanapischti"18:35:25 Lava_Croft | testosteron powers so many great things" >>> hair loss19:38
Lava_Croftutanapischti: tell me about it19:38
Lava_Crofthair loss in the wrong places!19:38
utanapischtiwhich place is wrong?19:39
DocScrutinizer0516 year old teenies with skinhead heircut and very special tatoo on their forehead?19:39
Lava_Croftwho cares?19:39
Lava_Crofthow is their physical appearance related?19:39
DocScrutinizer05*i* for one am interested in physical appearance19:40
jacekowskicouncil doesn't exist19:40
Lava_Croftthen you probably arent the right kind of person to participate in the voting19:40
jacekowskiit's all just a computer program19:40
jacekowskithat's why there is no photo of it19:40
DocScrutinizer05as I won't vote for somebody that looks, smells, and talks like an old Nazi for example19:40
DocScrutinizer05as odds are he actually *is* an old nazi19:41
jacekowskii thought most germans are19:41
DocScrutinizer05and a 16 year old grumpy teenager with "conquer the world" phantasies will somehow expose this on a photo as well, if only his age19:42
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utanapischti18:41:51 jacekowski | i thought most germans are  <<<<  most germans are too young to know what a nazi was19:42
DocScrutinizer05and after all it's good practice since at least 100 years you get faces of your electable candidates, no matter what's the election19:43
utanapischtimost non-germans dont know what they are talking about too19:44
DocScrutinizer05if you're considering running for council but are afraid to publish a shitty photo of your nose, just rethink! maybe council is not the role for you19:44
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DocScrutinizer05but this council is all about redefining council from publicly known representatives to hidden acting dictatorship19:45
DocScrutinizer05and not liking to see your face published is all in line with that19:46
jacekowskishadow council19:46
DocScrutinizer05hell, were some of them even reluctant to disclose their real life names?19:47
DocScrutinizer05 is actually a laugh19:48
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Lava_Croftthe problem with demanding pictures is that inevitably it will turn into a discussion about quality of the photos, the physical appearance of the subjects and what not19:49
jacekowskiwell, when people ask for my photo i give them that19:49
Lava_Croftand if this was a modelling contest, that would be great19:49
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: bullshit19:49
Lava_Croftyou must be new to the internet19:50
jacekowski+ people would be wanking to female phtos19:50
Lava_Croftthat too, but i was trying to avoid porn19:50
DocScrutinizer05no, you must. tells the whole sad story, at a glace. indeed19:50
Lava_Crofti dont see why you make such a fuss about portrait photos19:51
Lava_Croftthey could be physically attracting to both sexes and still be horrible people19:51
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: and no, there's never been *any* beauty contest or complaint about poor photo quality going on for any council except last and current one19:51
jacekowskitbh. i don't know those names19:51
Lava_Croftso thats not never19:52
Lava_Croftlook, i personally always enjoy people's portrait pictures, but i just dont see how its so important to this19:52
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Lava_Croftsame with real life names19:53
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: they could be snake people from mars, in disguise. Still no reason to tell community "F U, you won't get a photo of _me_, suckers"19:53
Lava_Croftit is19:53
Lava_Croftwhy does the community have a right to know what you look like19:53
Lava_Crofthow is it important to this matter19:53
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: simply because it's how community elected ... (counting) 4(?) councils befor the abysmally poor last and incredibly arrogant current one19:54
DocScrutinizer055 actually19:54
DocScrutinizer05at least19:54
Lava_Crofti think "we always did it like this in the past" is a weak argument19:54
Lava_Croftand thats to put it mildly19:54
DocScrutinizer05I think THIS is the wrakest argument19:55
Lava_Croftand i dont know about you, but arrogance is something you can easily fake either way in a picture19:55
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DocScrutinizer05so what?19:55
Lava_Croftplease dont tell me that you link their pictures to their possible arrogant personalities19:55
Lava_Crofthey, thats what you are saying19:55
DocScrutinizer05you are obviously one of the douchebags19:56
Lava_Crofti dont agree, so i must be a douchebag19:56
DocScrutinizer05the 10% to define new rules19:56
Lava_Croftthis is hardly the right way to take on a discussion like this19:56
MohammadAGI see the arguing is moving to irc19:56
DocScrutinizer05to conquer the other 90%19:56
Lava_Croftwell, the arguing is over now19:56
MohammadAGWell, at least freenode isn't funded by Nokia19:56
MohammadAGWhat's this about photos19:57
DocScrutinizer05tells the whole story19:57
Lava_Croftsomeone is making a lot of fuss about some missing portrait photos19:57
Lava_Croftbecause that is one of the real problems this community faces in these times19:57
Maceri have my plasma tv open trying to tap test where the hell the problem is19:57
Lava_Croftthat is really a subject that you want to argue about on both the forums and irc19:58
Macerthe left side of it keeps flickering and going blank19:58
DocScrutinizer05yes, and that one are you, Sir19:58
Lava_Croftand then when someone does not agree, you just fall into petty insulting19:58
Macerthen sometimes it will pop back up... sucks heh19:58
Lava_Croftlike a really, really bad salesperson19:58
Lava_Croftgood luck with it, DocScrutinizer0519:58
DocScrutinizer05*I* just said the photo issue is in line with other bad practice and notion we see on current council19:58
MohammadAGSo what if photos are missing19:59
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MohammadAGI'm both of those guys with different nicks and I did that to have 3 N9s19:59
DocScrutinizer05then that shows the one is not bothering19:59
MohammadAGNothing wrong there, carry on19:59
MohammadAGIts a simple cosmetic issue on the wikis20:00
Lava_CroftNot just that, I dont see what one should should express so much negativity over a subject like this20:00
DocScrutinizer05not willing to follow best practice of former councils20:00
Lava_CroftI mean, there's surely other subjects you can direct it at, more productive things20:00
MohammadAGEstel_: Fix it, please, kthxbai20:00
MohammadAGSee? Problem solved20:01
MohammadAGNo need for personal attacks20:01
MohammadAGAlso the other guy, he's usually on irc, ping him about it20:01
Lava_Crofti know a good way to change the subject20:02
Lava_CroftMohammadAG: what is up with the n9 camera20:02
Lava_Croftis it the GPS (settings?) that cause it to take ages to startup?20:02
Lava_Croftor just not start up at all20:02
MohammadAGLava_Croft: No, it's something added in between beta2 and pr1.220:03
Lava_Croftsomething unknown?20:03
Macerthe N9 camera?20:03
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: things started around - read that and you'll se how we came to this silly photo topic now20:03
MohammadAGIdk, but it was very fast on prelease software20:03
Lava_Croftit does seem related to the GPS, but that might just be decieving20:03
Maceryou're running maemo on an n9?20:03
Lava_Croftthe n9 does run maemo :)20:04
MohammadAGVERY FAST20:04
MohammadAGno, we had geotagging in beta120:04
Lava_Croftit seemed very fast at first too20:04
zeq_laptopI don't think it really has anything to do with the council.  A lot of people on tmo wanted to *buy* an N950 or similar updated N900 type device.  There's a lot of frustration (at Nokia) but now being directed at those they see getting what they wanted.20:05
Lava_Croftzeq_laptop: i backspace'd a message of the same nature a while agoD20:05
zeq_laptopI'm not paying enough attention, just seeing the discussion roll by...20:05
Lava_Crofti didnt actually send it to the server:)20:06
zeq_laptopI'm trying to get the Linaro 4.7.2 toolchain working in sb20:06
MohammadAGDon't judge a book by its cover20:06
MohammadAG16 year olds aren't bad :p20:06
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MohammadAGThe way they act is what matters20:06
Lava_Croftwhen i was 16yo, i had a sea of time20:06
zeq_laptopLava_Croft: ie backspaced - not enough attention :p20:07
MohammadAGLava_Croft: It's global warming that made it disappear, not age20:07
Lava_Croftoh geez20:07
Lava_Crofti live in the netherlands20:07
Lava_Croftless sea is always good here20:07
MohammadAGHow old are you now?20:07
Lava_Croftyou want my picture too?20:08
MohammadAGYes, in a bikini please20:08
Lava_Crofti turn 31 in august:)20:08
* RST38h moos at Mohammad20:08
MohammadAGMoo RST38h20:08
Macershe's on irc... she has to be fat20:08
* Macer hides20:08
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RST38hLava: So you can now officially bitch about 16-year olds, or what?20:08
Lava_Croftwas i bitching about 16 year old?20:08
Lava_Crofti think someone else was20:08
MohammadAGLava_Croft: Don't actually do that, no seriously, please don't20:08
Lava_CroftMohammadAG: dont worry, i dont fit im my wife's bikinis anyway20:08
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: and again you got it wrong20:09
Lava_Croftim sorry for breaking the spell :<20:09
MohammadAGWhat I do dislike is 16 year olds with Audis20:09
Lava_Croft16 year olds arent allowed to drive cars here20:09
MohammadAGOr BMWs20:09
Macer16yr olds have audis?20:09
RST38hsome do20:09
Maceryou mean the silver spoon kids or are they just that much cheaper in the eu?20:09
MohammadAGThey have dads with $$$20:10
Macerah ok20:10
MohammadAGWell, some of them20:10
Lava_Croftaudi is like the opel kadett of semi-wealthy people20:10
RST38hMohammad: Lemme guess, PA government functionaries?20:10
MohammadAGI had a Nissan GT-R when I was 1620:10
Lava_Croftsuch a lack of personal taste20:10
MohammadAGI miss Gran Turismo20:10
Maceraudis aren't that good.. but then again.. no cars are nowadays20:10
Lava_Crofti miss carmageddon20:10
Macerthey're all made in china parts20:10
Sc0rpiusAudis are good, well my brother has an Audi A4 and it's great20:10
MohammadAGRST38h: No, just fucked up hidden lives20:11
Maceris it new?20:11
Sc0rpiusmy sister has a SUV, an Audi Q620:11
Lava_Croftaudi is nice, but its also ver standard20:11
Sc0rpiusyeah 201220:11
MohammadAGI like the RS320:11
* RST38h yawns and notices that when he was 16 years of age, Carmageddon has not been written yet20:11
Macerwait until the chinese knobs start breaking off ;)20:11
Lava_Crofti like the S* series tho20:11
Macerthe $100 plastic chinese knobs20:11
Lava_Croftstationwagon S* series is just ridiculous20:11
RST38hMohammad: ah! mafia!20:11
Sc0rpiuswell mys sister's husband used to have an S4 and now that was a car20:11
Macera4 is zippy tho20:11
Sc0rpiusnow drives a Chevrolet :S20:11
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Maceri still have a 1994 caprice classic20:11
* Sc0rpius drives a 2012 Mitsubishi Lancer20:11
Macerrides like a champ still :)20:11
Macerawesome shape for its age20:12
MohammadAGThere's some 17 year old with an '12 Audi, he leaves it on and unlocked when he stops for a quick thing at the market20:12
Lava_Crofti drive a 49cc Yamah Neo's20:12
Lava_Croftmore like ride20:12
Maceri do need to get a new set of tires and a new paint job for it20:12
MohammadAGToo much money on his dad's hands, and apparently he doesn't appreciate it20:12
RST38hMohammad: Won't be doingit for lonh20:12
MacerMohammadAG: that's how all rich kids are lol20:12
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RST38hand I hope corporal punishment is still in effect where you live20:12
Macermaybe once in a while rich kids aren't little spoiled brats20:12
MohammadAGWell he lives in a neighborhood filled with car thieves20:12
Macerbut most are just assholes with money20:13
MohammadAGI drive a '00 golf20:13
MacerMohammadAG: like i said. i still have a 1994 caprice classic i bought in 200520:13
Sc0rpiusah Volkswagen :)20:13
Macerthe thing runs like it is brand new heh20:14
MohammadAG2.0 engine, so I try not to drive it a lot, at least not with gas prices now20:14
Macerso far i've only spent like 2000 on it20:14
* RST38h just bought a 2012 Honda CRV20:14
Macer:-P mine is 4.320:14
MohammadAGHow much is a litre of gas?20:14
Macerit actually sips gas quite well for being  a small v8 with lots of weight to mvoe around20:14
Macerwe go by gallons here20:14
RST38hProbably makes me a spoiled something, but the 1997 one had too many miles on it20:14
Lava_Crofthaha Macer wtf20:15
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Macerthat's actually cheap now :-P20:15
Lava_Croft1.68e per liter here20:15
Macerit got up to like $4.3020:15
MohammadAG$3.1ish per litre20:15
hiemanshuMohammadAG: Petrol?20:15
MacerPER LITER??20:15
Sc0rpiuswith $2 I can fill the whoooole tank of my car :)20:15
Lava_CroftMacer: yes20:15
MohammadAGLava_Croft: FUUU20:15
Sc0rpiusthat's what you get when you live in a country with oil20:15
Macera gallon is around 4 liters isn't it?20:15
Lava_Croft0.264gal is 1 liter20:15
MohammadAGLemme check actual conversion rates20:15
Macerthat's insane!20:16
Lava_Croft3.785l is 1 gallon20:16
Lava_CroftMacer: you in the US?20:16
Macerso ~$9/gallon??20:16
RST38hSc0rpius: Nah, rur30/litre in Russia, and it has got oil20:16
Maceryes. in chicago20:16
hiemanshuI pay $1 for a litre of diesel, can drive about 20kms in a diesel20:16
Lava_Croftthe US really lives in a bubble20:16
MacerLava_Croft: i guess hahaha20:16
Lava_CroftMacer: see it as some kind of Matrix dream state20:16
Lava_Croftyou will be so hurt by gas prices20:16
Maceromg almost $10 per gallon is absolutely crazy20:16
Lava_Croftjust keep thinking of euro gas prices20:16
MacerLava_Croft: the trick is to have all the refineries ;)20:16
Lava_CroftMacer: but the US has all the crazy fucking cars20:17
Lava_Croftwith HUGE engines20:17
Lava_Croftits just completely ridiculous20:17
MacerLava_Croft: not all of them.. the hipsters have hybrids ;)20:17
Macerbut $10/gallon... we would overthrow our govt if prices got that high20:17
Lava_Crofthaha, yes20:17
RST38hSo, US isa ridiculous country? Thanks, Cpt Obvious20:17
Lava_Croftbut you will get there, one way or the other20:17
Maceri swear we would send in mercs to slaughter and take over the middle east if it ever hit$1020:17
Lava_Croftyou have one pre on europe tho20:17
Lava_Croftyou are americans20:17
Lava_Croftso if the gas prices bother you guys too much, you just invent some new shit20:18
MacerLava_Croft: not our fault we won all the major wars :-P20:18
Lava_Croftwith hesitation20:18
Macerwe're funny like that20:18
Lava_Croftin the eu, that will take a goddamn century20:18
infobotsomebody said owtte was or words to the effect20:18
Lava_Crofttoo bad we all get beat by china! :D20:18
Macerwhen it becomes a need we will have nuclear plants in corn fields pumping out billions of gallons of ethanol a day20:18
MohammadAGYeah, 2.05/liter20:18
Macerno way... china's days are numbered ;)20:18
Lava_Croftchina will transition20:18
Macerthey can't sustain themselves forever20:19
Maceri doubt it20:19
Macerwe need another big war soon20:19
Lava_Croftnaw, chinese empire has always owned this planet20:19
MohammadAGI get 200km per 50$20:19
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Lava_Crofteuromarican empire is just temporary20:19
MacerLava_Croft: they kind of have haven't they? :)20:19
DocScrutinizer05in Chine petrol is for free, but in 5 years you'll have to pay for the air your car engine needs ;-P20:19
MacerDocScrutinizer05: hahaha!!20:19
MohammadAGFuck American cars20:19
hiemanshuMohammadAG: WTF? I get about 700km for $5020:19
Lava_Croft'real' american cars always feel cheap and shoddy to me20:20
Lava_Croftcheap plastics, bad finish20:20
MohammadAGhiemanshu: Engine capacity?20:20
MacerDocScrutinizer05:  you would think by now someone would find a way to suck it all out the air and squeeze it back together :)20:20
MohammadAGLava_Croft: ++20:20
hiemanshuMohammadAG: 35L20:20
Lava_Croftand then those engines20:20
Lava_Crofti mean seriously20:20
MacerLava_Croft: older ones are better20:20
jaska800km, ~95 eur (per week)20:20
Macerlike pre-gas woes cars20:20
MohammadAGhiemanshu: The fuck20:20
hiemanshuMohammadAG: oh wait, 1.2L20:20
Lava_Croftwhy do a lot of those cars sport those ridiculous engines20:20
Macer60s and 50s heh20:20
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I read that wrong20:20
MohammadAGOh, makes sense20:20
Macermaybe even some 70s20:20
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I can go upto 17020:20
MohammadAGMine's a 2.020:21
MacerLava_Croft: penis envy20:21
DocScrutinizer05hiemanshu: hiemanshu^20:21
MohammadAG260, but that doesn't matter20:21
Lava_CroftFiat makes 1.3l diesel engines20:21
Lava_Croftthats the stuff americans should love20:21
DocScrutinizer05hi hiemanshu, i meant20:21
hiemanshuMohammadAG: the roads here are built only for 100kmph :P20:21
hiemanshuhey DocScrutinizer05!20:21
DocScrutinizer05how's marriage?20:21
Macergeo/chevy made 1.3l engines20:21
MohammadAGhiemanshu: 110 here20:21
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer05: good so far :)20:21
Lava_CroftMacer: probably Fiat engines:)20:21
MohammadAGBut there's a private Russian road here20:21
Macerno.. suzuki20:21
Lava_CroftFiat engines are in so many cars that its hard to know em all20:21
Lava_Croftheh, nice20:21
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Macertheh actual car was just a rebranded suzuki swift20:21
MohammadAGMax speed is 110, not enforced20:21
Macerdon't know what was up with that20:21
MohammadAGSo most people do 160-18020:22
Maceri had a geo metro20:22
Maceri could drive for days on $5 back then :)20:22
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: max speed here most places is 80, but the roads cant handle much more than 14020:22
Macerit was like 1996 tho heh20:22
MohammadAGI got to 220 on it, then air resistance == force by engine20:22
MohammadAGWell, air resistance and friction20:22
hiemanshuMohammadAG: the max I have high is 170 constant for 25 mins20:22
MohammadAG180 for 63 mins20:22
MohammadAGHaifa to Jerusalem :P20:23
Macerwhat is that mph?20:23
DocScrutinizer05at 220km/h it starts getting boring, in a way it's too demanding20:23
Macerlike ... 70? heh20:23
Maceryou damn euros with your metric system20:23
hiemanshuMacer: India here :P20:23
Macerindia is just the forgotten UK colony :-P20:24
MohammadAGAbout 12020:24
DocScrutinizer05you damn Americans with your reverse logic and screwed units20:24
MacerDocScrutinizer05: we still have more money than you :)20:24
MohammadAGUh, we're the ones with the screwed system?20:24
MohammadAGWater freezes at 0, not 36!!!'20:24
Macer32 :-P20:24
hiemanshuMohammadAG: 32 :P20:24
Macerhonestly for temp we should all be using kelvins20:25
Macerboth C and F are stupid20:25
Macerfor food we should be using joules20:25
Macernot calories.. wtf is a calorie??20:25
Macernutritionist (fake doctor) crap20:25
RST38hMacer: I hate having to correct you, but there is no need to send anyone to Middle East20:26
RST38hMacer: Most of the place is basically a flatland. Nukes will work perfectly there.20:26
MacerRST38h: hahahah.. but we have to get to it still ;)20:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05 about 220 getting boring, you're right20:26
Macerthere is still a little fission required for fusion20:26
MohammadAGIt's fun the first two times20:26
RST38hMacer: May require slight modifications to insure the sand around epicenter turns into glass, so that there is less pollution20:27
MohammadAGThen it seems to cost more, and you're more likely to day cause of that dumb driver who switches lanes without looking20:27
MohammadAGBut 400kmph, that's a different story20:27
DocScrutinizer05not possible on German highways ;-P20:27
DocScrutinizer05I tried XP20:27
vi__macer then you should come to the uk.20:28
DocScrutinizer05actually most cars are limited hard @ 250 here20:28
jaskasoftware :)20:28
DocScrutinizer05not the one I used though20:28
DocScrutinizer05but it felt like useless stress to me driving at that speeds >>22020:29
DocScrutinizer05180 feels like a nice speed to me20:29
DocScrutinizer05maybe even 16020:29
DocScrutinizer05for more my synapses aren't built20:30
RST38hMacer: Why do you need to get to it? In fact, you do not even need to bomb it, just fake the CNN/Fox/etc reporting.20:30
DocScrutinizer05at least when driving20:30
RST38hMacer: 99% Americans will be quite satisfied with the results20:30
DocScrutinizer05airplane is a whole different thing20:31
MacerRST38h: yeah but you'll have all the eu crybabies pissed we took the oil first ;)20:31
RST38hThe rest are just serial protesters who want to bankrupt American enterprise for their commie welfare state or somethign20:31
RST38hMacer: Not if you do not actually bomb, just fake it for the TV =)20:31
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rzrcat fights on tmo :)20:33
Macerrzr: aren't there always?20:33
DocScrutinizer05ooh, me forgot to hit F520:33
MacerDocScrutinizer05: i thought boeing was testing out a hydrogen/oxygen plane?20:34
Macerthey say a drone worked quite well :)20:34
Macerand it can fly for days without refueling20:34
MacerGO BOEING!20:34
Macerlarger airports with smaller planes and better logistics20:36
Macerwill cut the middle east completely out of the airline business :)20:36
MacerAND... pollute less heh... how can boeing NOT sell that?20:37
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DocScrutinizer05~seen javispedro20:55
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 22d 21h 50m 58s ago, saying: 'the community ML activity can attest to that indeed'.20:55
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vi__~seen infobot21:03
infobotinfobot is currently on #utos (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-doc (19h 6m 32s) #botpark (19h 6m 32s) ##t42 (19h 6m 32s) #maemo (19h 6m 32s) #fredlug (19h 6m 32s) ##ols (19h 6m 32s) #n9 (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-scf-dev (19h 6m 32s) #flyspray (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk-dev (19h 6m 32s) #webos-internals (19h 6m 32s) (19h 6m 32s) #asterisk (19h 6m 32s) #byumug (19h 6m ...21:03
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: there's a smarter way for that21:07
infobot123/123 channels, 5020 users, 3624 unique: #debian/1212, #kde/390, #maemo/272, #gsoc/265, #meego/185, #asterisk/181, #harmattan/173, #wowuidev/144, #oe/135, #wowace/114, #webos-internals/113, #openmoko/95, #wowhead/88, #arm-netbook/78, #openmoko-cdevel/72, #uclibc/69, #n9/67, #htc-linux/61, #utah/61, #bzflag/57, #edev/57, #qi-hardware/55, #curseforge/55, #tomcat/53, #diablofans/51, #asterisk-dev/47, #maemo-ssu/44, #/41, #sc2mapster/39, ...21:07
infobot- Uptime for purl -21:07
infobotNow: 19h 12m 8s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux21:07
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201021:07
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200921:07
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200921:07
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vi__I want coffee, but it is too late for caffeine.21:11
DocScrutinizer05never too late for a nice coffee21:12
DocScrutinizer05esp on saturday21:12
infobotit has been said that xyawn is strong coffee21:12
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DocScrutinizer05~wiki pangalacticgargleblaster21:13
infobotI couldn't find a matching article in wikipedia, look for yerselves:
DocScrutinizer05~wiki pangalactic gargleblaster21:13
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Hatnote|This article is about the fictional character. For the Ottawa nightclub, see Zaphod Beeblebrox (nightclub).}} {{Infobox character | colour = red | name = Zaphod Beeblebrox | image = as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation.]] | caption = Mark Wing-Davey as Zaphod Beeblebrox, from the TV adaptation. | first = Fit the Second (radio) | last = | cause = | ...21:13
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DocScrutinizer05works better on non-fictional drinks, like:21:14
DocScrutinizer05~wiki tschunk21:14
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{Expert-subject|Mixed Drinks|date=October 2009}} {{Unreferenced|date=October 2009}} {{WPMIXInfobox | iba = | name = Tschunk | image = Tschunk cropped.jpg | caption = | type = cocktail | flaming = | rum = yes | brandy = no | served = | garnish = | drinkware = | ingredients = *4-6 cl white rum or golden rum *limes *Club-Mate *(if desired): brown sugar *ice | prep = Dice limes, put them ...21:14
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vi__I think imma.21:16
vi__gonna get drunk.21:16
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RST38hMeanwhile: Sexy Female Scientist Video Draws Fire23:10
* RST38h notices that more and more headlines draw involuntary "WTF?" reaction from him lately23:10
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: no worries, this are just short attacks, it comes and goes23:14
DocScrutinizer05and eventually levels to a mild but constant wrf-feeling about everything23:14
RST38hI guess that is what is known as dementia23:16
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Macerlol@claxton missing a 3ft put23:24
rzrdo u know how to fix
DocScrutinizer05RST38h: nope, that's commonly known as "grumpy old fart"23:26
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DocScrutinizer05rzr: I don't think youtube can be fixed23:27
DocScrutinizer05(and no, I also don't think everybody in this chan is supposed to watch an arbitrary youtube video to decide if (s)he knows some relevant answer)23:28
DocScrutinizer05on a general note:23:28
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.23:28
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