| DocScrutinizer05 | and I'd assume this will bite our ass (away) for H-D | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ZogG_laptop | if you take blue pill you 'll find out how deep the rabbit hole is, it you take red pill ... | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as definitely some idiot did "if (a == b) {..." in there | 00:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | for reals the == comparator is forbidden | 00:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | ~H-D | 00:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | is it hildon or what? | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | s/reals/floats/ | 00:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05 meant: for floats the == comparator is forbidden | 00:04 |
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| cehteh | forbidden isnt really true .. but some people may be surprised by the results | 00:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | to make things worse, N900 CPU is really really weak on floats | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and I wonder WTF for you need a float accuracy on a screen with 800*480 | 00:15 |
| zeq_laptop | N900 isn't weak on floats if you use NEON | 00:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | damn, a gifted coder handles that stuff with int16 | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq_laptop: are you sure, yes? | 00:15 |
| zeq_laptop | it's just that the VFPLite is insanely slow | 00:15 |
| zeq_laptop | Absolutely sure | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then tell me why qt got abyssmally slow when using floats for gfx | 00:16 |
| zeq_laptop | because it wasn't using neon? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know how math coprocs work? | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you know the diff in CPU cycles between a R3 / R4 vs a div_float( R4, R3)? | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer51 trolls oldschool =0) | 00:18 |
| zeq_laptop | actually no, I don't. I'd have to look it up. But yes simple integer math is going to be much slower | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you, Sir, made it off my /ignore for very unknown reasons | 00:19 |
| zeq_laptop | faster* | 00:19 |
| zeq_laptop | typo | 00:20 |
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| zeq_laptop | I know back in the early days FP was handled through a trap handler | 00:20 |
| zeq_laptop | on ARMs | 00:20 |
| zeq_laptop | in those days using floats was crazy insane | 00:21 |
| zeq_laptop | yet people still did, because it made coding much easier | 00:21 |
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| zeq_laptop | even though for every float op the cpu had to generate an illegal instruction and have the OS execute a handler to perform the op before restoring normal excecution | 00:22 |
| zeq_laptop | am I on ignore? | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not you | 00:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think me | 00:23 |
| zeq_laptop | oh ok | 00:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | i just think people can advise and suggest instead beeing "O RLY?" or "IT's STUPUD" =) | 00:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | s/i/DocScrutinizer51,i/ | 00:25 |
| infobot | ZogG_laptop meant: DocScrutinizer51,i just think people can advise and suggest instead beeing "O RLY?" or "IT's STUPUD" =) | 00:25 |
| zeq_laptop | It doesn't worry me, I respect Doc, I just not as ignorant about ARM CPUs as he might have thought | 00:26 |
| zeq_laptop | it's an interesting topic | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I asked | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm actually not absolutely sure myself, so I asked if you have hard numbers | 00:27 |
| zeq_laptop | The thing about ARMs is there's really never been a standard FP coproc | 00:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't have any clue in this topic as the most DocScrutinizer51 is an expert, it just amuse the way he react =) and not in the bad way, as i just know him for a while here =) | 00:27 |
| vi__ | "I did absolutely nothing for Harmattan and I don't plan to." --freemangordon on winning an N950. | 00:27 |
| vi__ | Trollmode highest level. | 00:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | vi__: yeah i saw it, he made my day | 00:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: sanest statement ever ;-D | 00:28 |
| zeq_laptop | that is funny | 00:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq_laptop: honestly, I think your post "yet people still did, because it made coding much easier" was absolutely to the point and still valid nowadays. And your other considerations regarding speed of int32 math vs neon accelerated float math are as well, though maybe not as extreme as they been a few years and CPU generations ago | 00:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ARMv4(?) not even had a hw-div | 00:37 |
| zeq_laptop | nope. ARM1 didn't even have hw-mul! | 00:37 |
| zeq_laptop | not that many used an ARM1 ;) | 00:38 |
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| zeq_laptop | kind of wanted one at the time though | 00:39 |
| zeq_laptop | second CPU for BBC Micro tube bus | 00:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | freemangordon: man, you are on fire on that thread, but you as well flooding it with arguing =\ | 00:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | nowanyway afaik you still need to shove your 64bit operands to the NEON, and after executing the math op you need to pull the result from there | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | -now | 00:46 |
| vi__ | well THAT thread is escalating quickly. | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | am I missing another lesson why I usually don't read tmo? ;-P | 00:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | DocScrutinizer51: there are nice thing there too btw | 00:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh i forgot you ignore me | 00:48 |
| zeq_laptop | DocScrutinizer05: if you want to rewrite hildon-desktop to use integer math... :) | 00:49 |
| zeq_laptop | anyway it seems to be working ok :) | 00:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd actually suggest that | 00:49 |
| zeq_laptop | it isn't a bad idea, but it is quite a project | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | shouldn't be too hard | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if it's coded with floats it needs a tough code review anyway ;-) | 00:50 |
| zeq_laptop | true :) | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | as devels using floats usually do it the wrong way | 00:51 |
| zeq_laptop | there are probably easier targers for float elminination in the stack though | 00:51 |
| zeq_laptop | s/targers/targets/ | 00:51 |
| infobot | zeq_laptop meant: there are probably easier targets for float elminination in the stack though | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | qt comes to mind, but then otoh that's probably a really heavy project | 00:52 |
| zeq_laptop | I'd be all for removing any usage of vfp at all | 00:52 |
| zeq_laptop | at least that way neon optimized code has a chance of running properly without stalls | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah stalls | 00:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 needs to switch to 64bit OS on his 8GB RAM laptop | 00:54 | |
| zeq_laptop | yes you do :) | 00:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd bet it are the malloc() that cause these nasty 30s stalls | 00:55 |
| zeq_laptop | 30s!?! | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 00:55 |
| zeq_laptop | ouch | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *might* be the graca as well | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (lenovo T500 with external gfx card) | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a combination of both | 00:57 |
| zeq_laptop | external? dockingstation? displaylink? | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, this dual-graca thing | 00:58 |
| zeq_laptop | hybrid | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chipset intl graca plus dedicated | 00:58 |
| zeq_laptop | never heard of it and google doesn't seem to help | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess this AMD graca driver has maybe problems with 8GB RAM | 00:59 |
| zeq_laptop | ATI HD5870? | 00:59 |
| zeq_laptop | what OS do you use doc? | 01:00 |
| zeq_laptop | on the laptop | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Suse12.1 | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV635 [Mobility Radeon HD 3650] | 01:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | plus the standard intel chipset integrated gfx | 01:03 |
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| ShadowJK | latencytop? | 01:03 |
| ShadowJK | btw, on Cortex a8, neon can execute in parallell with arm :) | 01:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | windows7 allegedly can switch on the fly | 01:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: doesn't help much when ARM doesn't have anything to do meanwhile ;-D | 01:04 |
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| zeq_laptop | hildon-desktop definite feels snappier | 01:05 |
| zeq_laptop | maybe placebo though :) | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with NEON? | 01:05 |
| zeq_laptop | app menu in particular | 01:05 |
| zeq_laptop | yes | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or what exactly got changed so it snaps now? | 01:06 |
| ShadowJK | It hardly does anything, dunno how it could be snappier :P | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: scrolling does a bit | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | scaling prolly too | 01:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and transitions... DUH | 01:07 |
| zeq_laptop | I rebased this https://gitorious.org/~arcean/community-ssu/arceans-hildon-desktop-float on top of the thumb-testing version | 01:08 |
| zeq_laptop | then compiled with -fmpu=neon | 01:08 |
| zeq_laptop | I wasn't actually expecting a perceptable difference | 01:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and arceans-HD-float does what? as compared to std hd | 01:08 |
| zeq_laptop | elimitates unnecessary usage of double | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 01:09 |
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| zeq_laptop | VFP and NEON don't really do double | 01:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, not wasting 2 registers for one var for sure makes a hellufalot of diff | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | compiler tries to pass function args in registers | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this limits args to functions to 4 * 32bit iirc | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise stack | 01:10 |
| zeq_laptop | yup | 01:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | using 64bit vars obviously defeats the strategy | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let alone the math | 01:11 |
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| ShadowJK | hm, I thought hardfp was about passing float/double in registers? And currently the ABI passes float/double on stack? | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: yup, but aiui NEON regs | 01:12 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 01:12 |
| jacekowski | it doesn't really matter that much | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | stack is cache backed anyways | 01:13 |
| * ShadowJK vaguely recalls meego people saying it gave speed boost | 01:13 | |
| jacekowski | yeah, maybe | 01:13 |
| jacekowski | i can't see it being huge | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but you need to push before gosub (err branch), and pop afterwards | 01:14 |
| jacekowski | i would say it's somewhere between minimal and immeasurable | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | avoiding uselass doubles in vars makes a lot of sense | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | every day | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: on x86 x86 can execute in parallel with x86 | 01:15 |
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| ShadowJK | :) | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: and well, on arm is parallel with arm | 01:15 |
| jacekowski | it's not exactly sequential execution | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | massively | 01:16 |
| jacekowski | instructions are executed in parallel with each other | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 01:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, past midnight already | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | now that we have a nice bunch of savvy people here, discussing interesting stuff | 01:17 |
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| ShadowJK | tomorrow is public holiday here | 01:18 |
| ShadowJK | midsummer :) | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | haha, you're late | 01:18 |
| zeq_laptop | yes, it's a good discussion, but I'd better get to bed! | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq_laptop: I'd appreciate continuing this discussion next day | 01:19 |
| zeq_laptop | sounds good DocScrutinizer05. night all! | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | n8 | 01:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: wasn't longest day like 4:34 last night? | 01:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or even the night before?? | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | maybe, but public holiday in middle of week is pointless | 01:23 |
| ShadowJK | you need a long weekend to get rid of hangovers | 01:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aah well, I guess you celebrate midsummer on 22nd of June each year | 01:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or do you actually celebrate on first Friday after astronomical event? | 01:25 |
| ShadowJK | "Since 1955, the holiday has always been on a Saturday (between June 20 and June 26). Earlier it was always on June 24. Many of the celebrations of midsummer take place on midsummer eve, when many workplaces are closed and shops must close their doors at noon." | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | /Must/?! | 01:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sooooo, did no "letter" arrive at yours today? | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, yes. | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, or else what? | 01:26 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, you get fined | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pff | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's idiotic. | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Even, say, grocery stores? | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's Europe | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Europe is idiotic. :P | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothern Eu actually | 01:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in Spain I think they never got such laws | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer05, nope, the tracking number doesn't seem active on finnish post yet | 01:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | use the german website! | 01:28 |
| ShadowJK | "Es ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Der Administator wurde benachrichtigt und wird sich des Problems annehmen." | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 01:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that "tracking" is useless anyway. Seems to know two events: delivered to postoffice, and delivered to addressee | 01:31 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, it depends on the size of the store. A small kiosk or corner shop would be able to stay open. They'd probably have shortened hours too though, the staff is probably anxious to take off their clothes and run off into the forest to celebrate with copious amounts of alcohol | 01:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nuttin in between the two | 01:31 |
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| ShadowJK | Usually things show up on .fi post website latest when it has arrived in the country, before it's passed on to customs | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like you really have fun over there | 01:32 |
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| ShadowJK | I think midsummer is one of the top-3 holidays of the year | 01:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | take off your clothes and run into the forrest with some bottles of Vodka | 01:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | X-P | 01:33 |
| Raimu | In Finland, take the vodka and run into a lake | 01:34 |
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| ShadowJK | I think the culture of having a house or cabin retreat in a hard to reach place, with hardly any comforts of civilization available, is a bit confusing to outsiders too | 01:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | hmm | 01:35 |
| ShadowJK | Looks like it'll be nice weather, so I bet there'll be about 40 deaths due to breathing water this year :P | 01:35 |
| Raimu | Yes. | 01:35 |
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| Raimu | Some guys had a deadpool going again - to guess the closest amount of drunken drowning Finn deaths. | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | how many die from getting eaten by mosquitos? | 01:37 |
| ShadowJK | Radio was doing a "tell us the most stupid thing you've done on midsummer while intoxicated" show yesterday. One guy called in and said he passed out on an inflatable matress, woke up surrounded by water in every direction, and eventually the next day drifted ashore in another city | 01:37 |
| Raimu | Very apocalyptic. | 01:38 |
| * ShadowJK is mosquito hardened now, took 3 weeks | 01:38 | |
| ZogG_laptop | hardened? | 01:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thick varnish of dirt and bodylotion? ;-) | 01:39 |
| Raimu | Exposure therapy. :) | 01:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | eeew | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | ZogG_laptop, half of the bites sting a little bit when they happen, after they happened, none leave any lasting itches marks or anything | 01:39 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, exposure therapy.. | 01:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | probably the best thing I could do withj a mossi bite is drill it out. with a 10mm drill. Would result in easily healing little injury, compared to what those bites do to me otherwise | 01:41 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:42 |
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| freemangordon | vi_: you have something to say 'bout my statement :P | 01:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's raining here, since 30min. Nice! As I can open up the windows now | 01:43 |
| Raimu | DocScrutinizer05: Drill @_@ | 01:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: get an umbrella | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq, this android download ate all my 8GB RAM for buffers | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: why? | 01:44 |
| freemangordon | just in case | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sitting in my living room and enjoy the fresh mossi-less air | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | from open window | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | been a tad *too* hot and hunid the last 3 days | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | humid* | 01:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: and I had several Jacks already, I hope I will be forgiven :) | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 01:46 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads out, direction bedroom | 01:46 | |
| ZogG_laptop | ShadowJK: i was in army last week, we slept outside - i hardly could fell asleep as i left mouth outside of sleep bag to breath (it was to hot) and all lips were bitten =( | 01:52 |
| ShadowJK | I was too tired to care about mosquitos when it eventually was time to sleep, and the southern mosquitos felt benign relative to here | 01:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | ShadowJK: i was exosted after training too but still it woke me up all 3 nights =( | 01:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | someone told me that mosquito can smell for target for kilometrs | 01:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | can be true but hard to imagine | 01:57 |
| ShadowJK | I once saw a mosquito trying to bite my N810's display frame, right after I had used it | 01:58 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 01:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 02:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | he was drinkingpixel | 02:00 |
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| Raimu | The liquid crystals... they're BLOOD | 02:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | my friend told me if you quick enuf to stretch sking where it bits you get he tramped and it can't stop drinking so it explode of over blood, i need to check it | 02:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | ShadowJK: you should take a pictue and write slogan " n810 is more than a compiuter, he is my soulmate" (to compare to person) | 02:02 |
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| Woody14619 | Well.. that was fun... But I'm all out of popcorn (and patience for dealing with blowhards...) :) | 02:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Welcome to the life of a community council member. | 02:22 |
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| Woody14619 | Lol... Thanks GA. ;) | 02:45 |
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| RiD | 'ssup estel. | 03:04 |
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| jonwil | bah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N900 | 07:19 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: https://wiki.linaro.org/WorkingGroups/ToolChain | 11:10 |
| freemangordon | 10x | 11:11 |
| zeq_laptop | I'm going to have a go at building 4.7-2012.06 for scratchbox if you don't beat me to it | 11:11 |
| zeq_laptop | did you see I'd built a new hildon-desktop ^^^ | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | no way, I won't have much time till monday | 11:12 |
| freemangordon | yeah, saw that :). | 11:12 |
| zeq_laptop | I'll let you know how I get on. Is the howto on scratchbox.org valid for importing toolchains? | 11:13 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: re. fennec. a little research has revealed we need to use the h-d API provided by qtmaemo for rotation support | 11:14 |
| freemangordon | yep, I am in the process of implementing it | 11:15 |
| zeq_laptop | cool! :) | 11:15 |
| zeq_laptop | don't forget vol/zoom :) | 11:16 |
| freemangordon | aaah, lets first finish with the rotation :) | 11:17 |
| zeq_laptop | one thing at a time | 11:17 |
| freemangordon | yeah | 11:18 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: deffinitely we a need of version control for fennec | 11:19 |
| freemangordon | *we need a | 11:20 |
| zeq_laptop | mozilla uses mercurial | 11:21 |
| zeq_laptop | https://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central | 11:22 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: Yes I was highly amused by your comment. Trollmode level 99. | 11:25 |
| zeq_laptop | I guess we should work from http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/mozilla-beta | 11:26 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: I mean a place we can make commits, so we can share the code changes easily | 11:30 |
| freemangordon | vi_: You call me troll ?!? | 11:32 |
| * freemangordon creeps ashamed back under the bridge where he lives | 11:32 | |
| StyXman | freemangordon: what are you planning you two? | 11:33 |
| freemangordon | StyXman: a working and usable fennec for n900 | 11:33 |
| freemangordon | (if you mean me and zeq_laptop) | 11:33 |
| freemangordon | so far it is working, but not easy to use as the screen is rotated ny 90 degrees :D | 11:34 |
| StyXman | yeap | 11:34 |
| freemangordon | *by | 11:34 |
| StyXman | ok, tx | 11:34 |
| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I get that. I suppose we don't need the full history, just a public hosted git repo would do. | 11:36 |
| zeq_laptop | I have an account on github | 11:37 |
| zeq_laptop | StyXman: the officially supported fennec widgets are Android and qt. The gtk widget has been left to bit-rot, that's why we've not had an official fennec build since v7. The Maemo5 support code was only in the gtk widget, the qt widget does have Maemo6 and MeeGo support code however. | 11:40 |
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| freemangordon | yep, unfortunately i have an account on gitorious. Let the battle begin :D | 11:41 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: on the other hand we could setup an account on garage | 11:42 |
| freemangordon | *project | 11:42 |
| zeq_laptop | I need to register on them anyway... | 11:42 |
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| zeq_laptop | Would it be possible to still track upstream mozilla mercurial? | 11:43 |
| zeq_laptop | (as a remote) | 11:44 |
| zeq_laptop | would make it much easier if we decide to get our changes upstreamed | 11:44 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: NFC, most prolly not. I don't know if git could fetch remote mercurial branches | 11:45 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: If you want to make those upstreamed, I am all for it | 11:45 |
| freemangordon | but don't expect me to be of any use but coding, i really don't have the nerves/diplomacy needed to argue on mozilla bug tracker | 11:47 |
| zeq_laptop | I know what you mean... | 11:48 |
| freemangordon | ok, fennec .deb with maemo5 changes ready, lets check if those work | 11:49 |
| zeq_laptop | let me at em :) | 11:49 |
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| zeq_laptop | Maybe we need to talk to Romaxa | 11:55 |
| StyXman | well, for git/hg interaction there's fastexport/import, but it's a PITA. you could also check Joey Hess' mr, but I barely know that it exists | 11:57 |
| zeq_laptop | there's also git-hg, but I've no experience with it | 11:57 |
| freemangordon | hmm, rotation work as it should, but fennec does not resize when in portrait, lemme check | 12:04 |
| zeq_laptop | ok | 12:05 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: just registered on garage | 12:09 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: great. now we can start a new project and upload the source there | 12:10 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: we should make sure we turn off the official branding before we make this public, unless/until we get it upstreamed. | 12:15 |
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| freemangordon | ok | 12:17 |
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| freemangordon | I'll remember that | 12:17 |
| zeq_laptop | official fennec/qt for Maemo5 bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=566448 | 12:22 |
| povbot | Bug 566448: was not found. | 12:22 |
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| freemangordon | nice | 12:32 |
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| Hurrian | freemangordon, newer firefox builds for Maemo? | 12:35 |
| mgedmin | oh silly povbot, haven't I taught you to ignore bugillas other than bugzilla.maemo.org? | 12:36 |
| mgedmin | apparently not | 12:36 |
| Lava_Croft | poor povbot is doing the best job it can do! | 12:36 |
| * Lava_Croft pats povbot on the shoulder | 12:36 | |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: shall I just re-use fennec as the project "Unix Name"? | 12:39 |
| zeq_laptop | i see "Cannot match the unix name of any other project", so I thought I'd check :) | 12:40 |
| Lava_Croft | zeq_laptop: isnt 'fennec' what they use for firefox mobile | 12:40 |
| zeq_laptop | yes, we're porting Fennec/Qt to fremantle | 12:41 |
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| zeq_laptop | it's the version used on Harm/MeeGo, but currently lacks h-d support etc | 12:42 |
| zeq_laptop | see backscroll | 12:42 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, i was kind affirming your idea | 12:42 |
| teotwaki | Lava_Croft: /nick Lava_Cruft would be funny :) | 12:43 |
| Lava_Croft | but that would ruin the nice story attached to this nickname! | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: it is fennec after all, if someone complains I think we can change the name | 12:43 |
| Lava_Croft | a story of puberty, potsmoking and quakeworld | 12:43 |
| zeq_laptop | I just wanted to check using "fennec" on Garage was okay | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | i think it is | 12:43 |
| freemangordon | who cares after all, mozilla? | 12:44 |
| zeq_laptop | okay, submitted | 12:44 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 12:44 |
| Lava_Croft | mozilla is a tainted brand for a browser anyway, makes me think of slow, fat browsers | 12:44 |
| freemangordon | ok, almost there, rotation is 80% functional :D | 12:45 |
| zeq_laptop | 80%? Off by a few degrees? ;) | 12:45 |
| freemangordon | nah, the resize still not working ok | 12:47 |
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| zeq_laptop | how long does garage registation usually take? | 12:57 |
| freemangordon | less than 24 hours | 12:58 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I'm going to give that linaro toolchain build a go, any tips? | 13:03 |
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| freemangordon | hmm, not any I can think of. lets face a real problem, maybe then i will remember something | 13:05 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: you will try to build it inside SB? | 13:06 |
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| vi_ | If rotation is now 80% functional does that mean it now rotates to within 18 degrees of useable? | 13:07 |
| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: tbh I don't know where to begin... do I just build a cross-toolchain? | 13:08 |
| zeq_laptop | gcc -v output on the gcc-4.6 we're using: | 13:09 |
| zeq_laptop | Configured with: /home/jhakala/cs2007q3-sb7/arm/src/gcc-4.2/configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi --enable-threads --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgomp --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-symvers=gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-nls --prefix=/opt/maemo --with-sysroot=/opt/maemo/a | 13:09 |
| * StyXman sees --host --target, remembers and shudders | 13:09 | |
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| zeq_laptop | I've quite a bit of experience build cross-compilers so that doesn't worry me in itself | 13:10 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: check your current target | 13:19 |
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| * zeq_laptop feels embarrased | 13:19 | |
| freemangordon | :) | 13:19 |
| zeq_laptop | yes, that's what I have :) | 13:20 |
| zeq_laptop | I used /scratchbox/compilers/.../gcc -v from outside scratchbox | 13:21 |
| * freemangordon wonders what "that" is | 13:21 | |
| zeq_laptop | when I run gcc -v from within scratchbox I get the same output as you do :) | 13:21 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 13:21 |
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| freemangordon | nice :) | 13:21 |
| freemangordon | btw is that debianized? | 13:22 |
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| zeq_laptop | so I should build from within scratchbox? | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | I don't think you'll be able | 13:23 |
| zeq_laptop | I didn't think I would | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | I built it from outside | 13:23 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 13:23 |
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| zeq_laptop | I'm on x86_64, I probably should make it for i686 ... | 13:24 |
| zeq_laptop | canadian cross | 13:24 |
| zeq_laptop | hmm | 13:24 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: yeah | 13:28 |
| freemangordon | don't do it 64bit, won't work in wmware images AFAIK | 13:29 |
| teotwaki | 64-bit doesn't work in vmware? | 13:29 |
| freemangordon | teotwaki: vmware SB images prepared by Nokia are 32bit | 13:30 |
| teotwaki | ah | 13:30 |
| LaoLang_cool | I installed gcc-4.6 and want to compile the simplest hello.c, but gcc says there isn't stdio.h | 13:32 |
| LaoLang_cool | how to solve it? | 13:32 |
| zeq_laptop | LaoLang_cool: how did you install gcc-4.6 | 13:33 |
| zeq_laptop | ? | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | main(){puts("hello world");} | 13:34 |
| freemangordon | some TMO member(Aapo?) uploaded it in extras-devel | 13:34 |
| LaoLang_cool | zeq_laptop, apt-get install gcc-4.6 | 13:34 |
| freemangordon | but it is 4.6.1 AFAIK | 13:34 |
| LaoLang_cool | SpeedEvil, gcc-4.6: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory | 13:36 |
| freemangordon | LaoLang_cool: binutils? | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Copy the entire root filesystem to a subdirectory. | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | (one not on the rootfs) | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | chroot into that, install the 'tools' repo, and do apt-get build-essentials | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | that way you don't fill up your / | 13:37 |
| LaoLang_cool | If I use tcc to compile, it says: tcc: file '/usr/lib/crtl.o' not found | 13:37 |
| LaoLang_cool | underfined symbol 'puts' | 13:37 |
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| LaoLang_cool | freemangordon, will install it | 13:46 |
| LaoLang_cool | How to keep a pkg from apt-get upgrade? | 13:46 |
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| LaoLang_cool | freemangordon, now it says: /usr/bin/ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots | 13:48 |
| LaoLang_cool | collect2: ld returned 1 exit status | 13:49 |
| LaoLang_cool | tcc still outputs the same error | 13:49 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: http://fennec.garage.maemo.org/ | 13:53 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: what's your username on garage? | 13:54 |
| zeq_laptop | I'll add you as admin | 13:55 |
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| zeq_laptop | toolchain build is underway, fingers crossed | 14:09 |
| * zeq_laptop wanders off | 14:09 | |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: freemangordon :D | 14:50 |
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| vi_ | who could have guessed a community awards competition could foster so much butthurt and rage? | 15:06 |
| freemangordon | vi_: well, I see only 2 trolling there (3 if you count me :P ) | 15:07 |
| freemangordon | the others look like they are ok with what was decided | 15:07 |
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| vi_ | Or kojacker. | 15:11 |
| vi_ | He is normally a cool guy. | 15:11 |
| vi_ | However I don't take being antagonised easily. | 15:11 |
| vi_ | I wish there was a word in the English language for describing the manner that a person takes when on the surface they would appear to be acting overtly kind however with a little analysis their words can be seen to be an antagonistic wall of fuck. | 15:13 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: done :) | 15:14 |
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| freemangordon | vi_: if you want to make him (and trolls) mad, just post a reference to qgil's statement that those devices will be owned by us, along with all taxes will be paid by Nokia. :D:D:D | 15:16 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: thanks | 15:16 |
| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I'll pull in mozilla-central with git-hg and push it to garage, or would it be too big? | 15:16 |
| MrPingu | Really that CA thread is crazy! | 15:16 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: NFC, but there should be plenty of space on garage | 15:17 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: it is not the thread by itself ;) | 15:17 |
| zeq_laptop | I'd like to do it that way if we can get away with it... | 15:17 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: would you rephrase, i missed the point | 15:18 |
| zeq_laptop | I'm thinking about "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes | 15:19 |
| zeq_laptop | s/out/our/ | 15:19 |
| infobot | zeq_laptop meant: I'm thinking abour "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes | 15:19 |
| zeq_laptop | ^ ? | 15:20 |
| freemangordon | seems reasonable | 15:20 |
| zeq_laptop | my regex went a bit wrong there :P | 15:21 |
| ivgalvez | to me, only two people argueing sounds a success (at least on TMO) | 15:22 |
| freemangordon | yeah, similar to my statement from several weeks ago "damn, this is simple, just some 500 lies of code" :D:D:D | 15:22 |
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| MrPingu | vi_, do idea #1 :D | 15:24 |
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| vi_ | MrPingu: heh. | 15:25 |
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| ivgalvez | idea #2 could be fun, but you should upload a video for confirmation | 15:25 |
| vi_ | "blow the money on being blown by..." | 15:25 |
| teotwaki | vi_: sarcastic hypocrite | 15:25 |
| freemangordon | damn fennec build finallt ended, lets see the result | 15:26 |
| vi_ | teotwaki: are you calling me this or suggesting it as the word(s) I was looking for? | 15:26 |
| teotwaki | vi_: That's for me to know and for you find out. | 15:26 |
| teotwaki | Actually, closer to the second option :) | 15:27 |
| vi_ | phew. | 15:27 |
| chem|st | Woody14619: never ever respond to abill pls | 15:27 |
| vi_ | chem|st: why you have not banned that guy yet? | 15:27 |
| ivgalvez | who wants to respond to abill | 15:27 |
| teotwaki | vi_: because, he's been banned a number of times | 15:28 |
| freemangordon | chem|st: aah, all of the fun n TMO will be gone then | 15:28 |
| teotwaki | We even banned him back in the day I was a forum mod | 15:28 |
| vi_ | ivgalvez: everytime I do I get a nice mail from reggie. | 15:28 |
| teotwaki | chem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from answering to Abill</p"; | 15:29 |
| teotwaki | s/answering/replying/ | 15:30 |
| infobot | teotwaki meant: chem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from replying to Abill</p"; | 15:30 |
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| freemangordon | teotwaki: LOL | 15:31 |
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| chem|st | Woody14619: and you should stop defending something you did not agree with in the firstplace o.O | 15:44 |
| chem|st | vi_: 1st warning then banning, for some reason he just popped up again... | 15:45 |
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| vi_ | chem|st: Just permaban his troll ass. | 15:54 |
| chem|st | teotwaki: nice idea but I wont | 15:54 |
| vi_ | He is currently demanding that the council is diisolved and re-elected after the CA 'scandal'. | 15:55 |
| teotwaki | scandal? | 15:55 |
| vi_ | teotwaki: You do not read TMO do you? | 15:55 |
| teotwaki | nope | 15:55 |
| vi_ | There is a thread about the CA. | 15:55 |
| vi_ | There is a lot of raeg and butthurt. | 15:55 |
| teotwaki | vi_: I left the mod team because I didn't have time, you think if I had the time to read I didn't have the time to moderate? | 15:56 |
| teotwaki | how come? | 15:56 |
| teotwaki | Because some losers didn't get their sparky device? | 15:56 |
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| vi_ | Because most of the maemo council won a device in the CA. | 15:56 |
| teotwaki | Oh really? That's cute. | 15:56 |
| zeq_laptop | is there anything special I need to do to git over ssh working on garage? | 15:57 |
| teotwaki | I would've only applied if GeneralAntilles, MohammadAG and Jaffa were on the council, that way I would've been sure not to get one. | 15:57 |
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| teotwaki | vi_: cute, yet predictable... | 15:58 |
| vi_ | The first thing the ministers of the scottish parliment voted on was... | 15:58 |
| vi_ | ...a pay rise. | 15:58 |
| vi_ | Although it does seem unfair if the council members could not enter for a CA. | 15:59 |
| teotwaki | The first thing Sarkozy did was cheat on his wife, knowing that as the president, nobody could sue him. | 15:59 |
| teotwaki | (and divorce is included in "sue") | 15:59 |
| vi_ | teotwaki: is she the hot one? | 15:59 |
| teotwaki | no, that's the one he cheated with. | 15:59 |
| vi_ | classy guy. | 15:59 |
| teotwaki | Can't blame him though, 10 years, datass. | 16:00 |
| teotwaki | s/years/years ago/ | 16:00 |
| infobot | teotwaki meant: Can't blame him though, 10 years ago, datass. | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | yay, segfault | 16:00 |
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| teotwaki | who wouldn't... http://api.ning.com/files/YXIOUqPIP00BY2A51PuFqhSy8-mvG0rjtZWqXrBKENzIHr*2LXLn65qYf4S8OKA5Ykx2vXkY6NzKWh8pSb-m3Jiy72cCPY5O/CarlaBruni4.jpg | 16:01 |
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| Neutron__ | when you transfer files or tether your N900s over bluetooth, what kind of speeds do you usually get? | 16:01 |
| teotwaki | MohammadAG: it's on line 421 | 16:01 |
| teotwaki | Neutron__: 120KB/s | 16:01 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, even her hair's wet | 16:01 |
| Neutron__ | and your computer has a bluetooth 2.1 EDR dongle? | 16:02 |
| Neutron__ | (or built in, whatever) | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | 0x440d8390 in MWidgetController::model() const () | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | from /usr/lib/libmeegotouchcore.so.0 | 16:02 |
| MohammadAG | :/ | 16:02 |
| jonwil | bah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N900 :( | 16:02 |
| vi_ | jonwil: WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT? | 16:03 |
| vi_ | oops, caps. | 16:03 |
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| teotwaki | Neutron__: in any case, the 2.1 max speed is 260KB/s, isn't it? | 16:04 |
| Neutron__ | it is said to be 3Mbit, which is 384KB/s | 16:04 |
| jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1225158#post1225158 | 16:04 |
| * teotwaki has kicked vi_ ("CAPS") | 16:04 | |
| Neutron__ | while 2.0 is 2.1Mbit, about 260KB/s | 16:04 |
| jonwil | Thats my post where I explain whats wrong | 16:04 |
| teotwaki | Neutron__: actually, I think both have a theoretical limit of 3MBit, but both only achieve 2 Mbits tops. | 16:05 |
| zeq_laptop | I've entered my ssh public key (id_rsa.pub) onto my garage account, but cloning the repo fails with "Permission denied (publickey)"...??? | 16:05 |
| teotwaki | zeq: what happens if you just SSH into it? | 16:05 |
| Neutron__ | well, I get around 50-60KB/s when tethering with a ~5 year old laptop.. I can't find any way to figure out which version of bluetooth that laptop has | 16:05 |
| teotwaki | zeq: ssh -vvv user@host | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | oh f me, I didn't init the pointer :/ | 16:07 |
| jonwil | so can anyone suggest what I should do about my phone? | 16:08 |
| jonwil | I dont want to take it to Nokia Care who may not have the bits and even if they do will probably need to send it away for repairs | 16:08 |
| jonwil | I have seen a site that is selling the parts I need and cheap too | 16:09 |
| chem|st | ~seen ivgalvez | 16:09 |
| infobot | ivgalvez <~ivgalvez@89.140.113.138.static.user.ono.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 42m 9s ago, saying: 'who wants to respond to abill'. | 16:10 |
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| jonwil | but I have no way to know if these parts are legit or not | 16:10 |
| teotwaki | ~ping | 16:10 |
| infobot | ~pong | 16:10 |
| zeq_laptop | teotwaki: I get lots of debug output, not sure what exactly I'm looking for | 16:10 |
| teotwaki | zeq_laptop: basically, check for the part where it talks about public key auth, and see if your key is being used at all | 16:10 |
| zeq_laptop | it seems to be | 16:11 |
| teotwaki | So it's the server refusing your key? | 16:11 |
| zeq_laptop | shall I upload the output to pastebin? | 16:12 |
| teotwaki | sure | 16:12 |
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| zeq_laptop | teotwaki: http://pastebin.com/UzJvB03R | 16:14 |
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| teotwaki | no diea | 16:17 |
| teotwaki | idea | 16:17 |
| teotwaki | everything looks legit | 16:17 |
| jonwil | Looks like I should avoid the crappy repair places in the major shopping centers and hit up some PROPER repair shops :) | 16:17 |
| zeq_laptop | maybe I entered the key incorrectly on garage? | 16:17 |
| zeq_laptop | I used "xclip -sel clip < ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub", then pasted into the textbox | 16:18 |
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| chem|st | Woody14619: would you mind to talk to quim again and ask him if he got 5 n950 loaners for the council so we can close that? | 16:20 |
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| teotwaki | Isn't that going to eat out of the Qt-assigned ones? | 16:21 |
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| chem|st | no additional council-only loaners which need be given to next council | 16:21 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: I remember some note when you're clonning from the garage that you should yse SSL_NO_VERIFY or something | 16:22 |
| * chem|st grabs popcorn | 16:22 | |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: If you experience problems with 'git clone' or 'git push' please try first to set the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY environment variable to 1 (e.g. type export GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=1 in a terminal on Linux using bash). | 16:24 |
| zeq_laptop | ok freemangordon, I'll try it | 16:25 |
| zeq_laptop | nope | 16:25 |
| zeq_laptop | that doesn't apply to ssh afaik | 16:26 |
| freemangordon | there is also a note: Git access via SSH is under development. :D | 16:26 |
| zeq_laptop | I just read it takes 15 mins to update | 16:26 |
| freemangordon | aah, ok | 16:26 |
| zeq_laptop | maybe that's it | 16:26 |
| zeq_laptop | :) | 16:26 |
| zeq_laptop | under development for two years ;) | 16:26 |
| freemangordon | well, thats a complicated stuff, takes time :P | 16:27 |
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| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: i've just uploaded my rublic key in garage, have no problem with ssh git clone | 16:55 |
| freemangordon | *public | 16:56 |
| freemangordon | unfortunately fennec repo is empty :D | 16:56 |
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| vi__ | jonwil: ping | 17:01 |
| jonwil | pong | 17:03 |
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| freemangordon | jonwil: while you're here - you are aware your applet is now a part of CSSU-T? | 17:04 |
| jonwil | nice one | 17:04 |
| freemangordon | *are you | 17:04 |
| jonwil | no I wasnt aware of it but that's cool | 17:05 |
| jonwil | cool that its now in an "official" CSSU release :) | 17:05 |
| freemangordon | yeah, but we need you | 17:05 |
| freemangordon | as it caused a lot of talk @ TMO | 17:05 |
| jonwil | get me a link to whatever this talk is | 17:05 |
| freemangordon | lets switch to #maemo-ssu | 17:06 |
| jonwil | ok | 17:06 |
| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I must be doing something wrong then :( | 17:08 |
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| Viltzu | Is there easy way to install gcc-4.4 or newer to maemo? :) | 17:10 |
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| Viltzu | hmm to scratchbox I mean. | 17:10 |
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| vi__ | jonwil: The metal bezel around the screen is an absolute bitch to replace. | 17:12 |
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| vi__ | If they get bent they never sit on right again. | 17:12 |
| vi__ | Thus, getting one that is not bent is neigh near impossibru. | 17:13 |
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| vi__ | Depending on what country you live in, you MAY be able to convince your local Nokia service centre to get the parts in for the repair but just let you do it. | 17:13 |
| vi__ | They say they are not allowed but you may be able to convince them. | 17:14 |
| jonwil | vi__, I found a few sites that have the needed parts for sale | 17:14 |
| jonwil | few online sites | 17:14 |
| jonwil | I also intend to visit some proper phone repair places (not the shitty ones in the shopping centers) tommorow to see what they have to say | 17:14 |
| vi__ | In my experiance getting parts online can lead to receiving shitty knockoffs. | 17:15 |
| jonwil | well I intend to visit or call these places and see what they can do | 17:15 |
| vi__ | Fortunatley I have a local Nokia care centre that I have kind of built up a rapport with. | 17:16 |
| jonwil | see whether any of em say they can fix it and if so what it would cost | 17:16 |
| vi__ | jonwil: DANGER! | 17:16 |
| jonwil | danger what? | 17:16 |
| freemangordon | to get an N8 as a replacement ;) | 17:16 |
| vi__ | I would'nt let any of those hamfisted chimps near my precious n900 unless you want either: | 17:17 |
| vi__ | 1.stripped screws and knockoff parts | 17:17 |
| vi__ | 2. an N8. | 17:17 |
| jonwil | well one of the shops I will be calling did a keypad replacement on my previous phone (a Motorola Z6) and did a damn good job of it | 17:17 |
| vi__ | jonwil: fair enough. | 17:18 |
| jonwil | Some of em do warranty repairs for various brands (not Nokia) so presumably they must be good | 17:18 |
| jonwil | or else they wouldn't be trusted by makers like Motorola to do warranty repairs | 17:19 |
| jonwil | but yeah I wouldn't use anyone that looked dodgy | 17:19 |
| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: she it matter if my username differs between my local user and garage? I have .ssh/config setup as described. | 17:21 |
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| Viltzu | vi__, they don't give N8s anymore | 17:24 |
| Viltzu | vi__, atleast two of my friends when they sent N900 to repair they got back E7. | 17:24 |
| jonwil | I doubt Nokia would give me an N8 or an E7 or any other phone if I sent my phone in for a non-warranty repair of a N900 with a busted front bezel | 17:24 |
| Viltzu | well that might be true :P | 17:25 |
| vi__ | I got my local nokia store to get me a new kboard for my n900. | 17:25 |
| vi__ | I went to pick it up and they were like, just give us the phone and we will fit it. | 17:26 |
| vi__ | I take one look at the 'engineer' wearing fully sythetic clothes, sitting at there 'ESD zone' bench without a wriststrap and was like. | 17:27 |
| vi__ | 'nah, I will do it my self' | 17:27 |
| vi__ | We then had a short discussion about how it was against policy. | 17:27 |
| vi__ | Now they get some parts for me+charge labour time but let me have the bits. | 17:28 |
| vi__ | It is kinda bull, however at least I know I am getting decent quality parts unlike that piece of shit N900 kboard you can get on ebay. | 17:28 |
| vi__ | Viltzu: that is good. E7 can be sold for more money! | 17:29 |
| Viltzu | vi__, I know. I actually sent my N900 to repair. I had in my mind that I would sell the E7 and buy used N900 again and keep the extra money. | 17:30 |
| Viltzu | :> | 17:30 |
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| Viltzu | But, I got my N900 back. ;u | 17:30 |
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| jonwil | I know from the Nokia service manual exactly which parts need replacement so if someone tries to tell me "the whole screen assembly has to be replaced", I will know they are probably BSing me | 17:32 |
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| Macer | jonwil: yeah. that is what sucks about repair places | 17:32 |
| Macer | they are big bullshitters so they can make a few extra bucks | 17:33 |
| Macer | but i suppose that is everybody huh? | 17:33 |
| Macer | you don't pay for the work.. you pay for the knowledge.. since most people are ignorant as to the ease of repair.... they just pay | 17:33 |
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| jonwil | in my case I know exactly what parts are needed and what work needs doing, what I am paying for is someone who can get quality parts and who has the specialist tools and skills to open up the phone and repair it without damaging it | 17:38 |
| jonwil | damaging it further that is | 17:38 |
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| vi__ | HOLY. | 17:42 |
| vi__ | SHIT. | 17:42 |
| vi__ | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nokia-N950-dev-phone-/280896512893?pt=UK_Mobile_Phones&hash=item4166bca37d#ht_500wt_943 | 17:42 |
| vi__ | There is a compelling reason to sell your new N950. | 17:42 |
| vi__ | £920 | 17:43 |
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| Hurrian | whoa, these things go fast | 17:44 |
| vi__ | Sell 5 N950s | 17:45 |
| vi__ | Enough funding for internettablettalk for the next 5 years. | 17:45 |
| MohammadAG | it's kind of a dick move tbh | 17:47 |
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| MohammadAG | you don't want it you send it to some other dev, not ebay | 17:48 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, it is a dick move, but it sure as hell is easy money | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | he's a nokia employee though | 17:48 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, I kinda need money but I'm not selling any of the DDPs I have | 17:48 |
| Macer | a disgruntled nokia employee heh | 17:48 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: tbh he probably wants to ebay them to show people how awesome the n950 was | 17:49 |
| Hurrian | Macer, I heard it's not that cool as a phone | 17:49 |
| Macer | keeping it within the dev circle doesn't show the general population what nokia screwed them out of ;) | 17:49 |
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| Macer | Hurrian: a phone is just for talking ;) | 17:49 |
| MohammadAG | The N9 is kinda sexier :P | 17:49 |
| Macer | i'm sure it does well as a computer in a pocket tho | 17:50 |
| Macer | it has xterm | 17:50 |
| Macer | that makes it superior | 17:50 |
| Hurrian | meh, I'll probably just grab a BT keyboard when my N9 arrives | 17:50 |
| Macer | i mean really.. as a PHONE.. what does it need? the ability to talk and txt and mms i suppose | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG | or just get an iPhone | 17:50 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: i did.. it's called a lumia 900 heh | 17:51 |
| Macer | the microsoft iphone | 17:51 |
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| MohammadAG | the iPhone is more capable than the Lumia | 17:51 |
| Macer | i use my n900 every now and then | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | plus it's kinda... supported | 17:51 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: yeah.. it probably does cool things like... properly use wifi | 17:51 |
| Macer | :) | 17:51 |
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| MohammadAG | no, it just doesn't suck :P | 17:51 |
| MohammadAG | Lumias are the new 3310 | 17:52 |
| Macer | nokia wants me to send my phone in because their software is only using the att dns when it swaps back to wifi | 17:52 |
| Macer | so now i have to rma the phone | 17:52 |
| Macer | just to get a new one back | 17:52 |
| Macer | that has the same problem | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | seriously, dump the Lumia and get an iPhone | 17:52 |
| Macer | it's probably some lame C# script | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | I for one stayed with Nokia not because they're Nokia | 17:52 |
| Macer | that doesn't refresh the dns | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | the moment they announced the Lumia I started considering other things | 17:52 |
| Macer | plus there is no way to manually set wifi settings | 17:52 |
| MohammadAG | that's why I have an iPhone | 17:52 |
| Macer | you HAVE to use dhcp | 17:52 |
| Macer | heh | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | I haven't left Harmattan cause I like it, not because it's Nokia | 17:53 |
| Macer | i wouldn't mind an e7 still | 17:53 |
| Hurrian | Macer, aside from the UI, WP7 blows | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | +1, Metro's about the only good thing | 17:53 |
| Macer | Hurrian: what else is there on a wp phone? ;) | 17:53 |
| Hurrian | heh | 17:53 |
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| Macer | honestly other than the wifi issue.. it works great | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | I even paid the 99$/yr for Apple's dev program | 17:53 |
| Macer | i have an ssh client and a gtalk client .. i'm done ;) | 17:53 |
| MohammadAG | wonder how good the app store sells | 17:53 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, put up a semi-decent app for $1.99 | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | deb http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian squeeze main | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | apt-get update | 17:54 |
| Macer | MohammadAG: well they had a good showing as far as sales | 17:54 |
| Hurrian | your dev sub will fund itself | 17:54 |
| Macer | even more so that they are selling them for $50 :-P | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, I already have a semi decent app | 17:54 |
| Macer | mine was pretty much free | 17:54 |
| MohammadAG | not sure it's useful for everyone, it's useful for me at least | 17:54 |
| Macer | they actually... PAID ME to buy it haha | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | in Scratchbox | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | Why? | 17:54 |
| Hurrian | Viltzu, fakeroot apt-get update | 17:54 |
| Macer | you got $100 off your first bill.. .and $100 in free accessories | 17:54 |
| Viltzu | I'm root. | 17:55 |
| Macer | and the phone was $100 :) | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, http://i39.tinypic.com/n3w50k.jpg | 17:55 |
| Macer | wtf? | 17:55 |
| Hurrian | oh wait, why are you using squeeze repos? | 17:55 |
| Macer | att must be paying an arm and leg to sell these. they want their next iphone | 17:55 |
| Viltzu | There is packages what I need :) | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, http://i39.tinypic.com/wa599g.jpg | 17:55 |
| Viltzu | And I'm pretty sure that repo worked in N900 | 17:55 |
| Viltzu | but not working in scratchbox... | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | It shows facebook checkin locations on a map | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | for stuff that isn't on a map, it's useful | 17:55 |
| MohammadAG | or just use it to stalk people who checkin at their homes | 17:56 |
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| Viltzu | Hurrian, to be more specific, I need gcc 4.4 or newer. | 17:56 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, that's nice - the facebook app for mobile is only semi-done | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | I was planning foursquare too, but I got bored with using VM | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | and a Mac is 15000 NIS | 17:56 |
| MohammadAG | about $4000 | 17:57 |
| Viltzu | Oh wait hmm... | 17:57 |
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| Hurrian | MohammadAG, hackintosh does wonders | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, I only have 500GBs | 17:57 |
| Hurrian | it boots fine from a 16GB USB stick | 17:57 |
| Hurrian | install macfuse/tuxera-ntfs and you're set | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | I cba to use sticks | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | thinking of getting a 1TB drive | 17:58 |
| Hurrian | meh, it's how I ran it until I got off my ass and repartitioned my drives to GPT | 17:58 |
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| MohammadAG | Hurrian, http://i49.tinypic.com/35mqnfn.jpg | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | GPwhat? | 17:58 |
| beford | with a bootloader like chameleon no GPT is needed afaik | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | afaik you just need a GUID (?) partition table | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | which seems to be the norm now | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | or not, msdos partition table | 17:59 |
| Hurrian | interesting, i'll go clone ML to a USB HDD later. | 17:59 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, dealing with OS X in a VM is a PITA | 18:00 |
| Hurrian | software transitions are terrible | 18:00 |
| MohammadAG | I usually don't condone piracy but Macs are an exception | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | there seems to be a modified copy that allows MBR installations | 18:02 |
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| beford | win a mac on a contest, problem solved | 18:03 |
| Hurrian | MohammadAG, it's simply an OSInstall.mpkg patch | 18:04 |
| Hurrian | also, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon | 18:05 |
| Hurrian | anyways, I have a whole drive for OS X, so I just let it do it's GPT thing. | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | <Hurrian> also, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | from who? | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian, I'm at uni, so I can only use a laptop | 18:05 |
| MohammadAG | otherwise I would've bought a mac mini | 18:05 |
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| Hurrian | MohammadAG, it's a thing in the hackintosh community that installing from untouched ISO is preferred | 18:07 |
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| teotwaki | What's you guys' take on the EUFI secure boot thingie? | 18:27 |
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| hiemanshu | teotwaki: Fedora found a way to get the OS working with secure boot, other distro should too | 18:58 |
| teotwaki | their way was to buy the right from Microsoft | 18:58 |
| teotwaki | not really "a way" | 18:58 |
| * zeq_laptop just finished an emergency remote server rescue for a client, nice to get some paid work :) | 19:03 | |
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| beford | secure boot can be disabled afaik | 19:05 |
| beford | if you are able to change boot order to install linux I suppose you can disable that | 19:05 |
| teotwaki | beford: you won't be able to disable it on ARM platforms | 19:07 |
| beford | oh right arm is locked, i was thinking about x86 | 19:07 |
| zeq_laptop | such a wonderful technology | 19:09 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: yeah, FOSS is a good think, unfortunately can't be eaten | 19:10 |
| freemangordon | *thing | 19:10 |
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| hiemanshu | teotwaki: nope, it was from verisign, microsoft gets no money from that, and well $99 isnt too much | 19:11 |
| teotwaki | hiemanshu: whether it's verisign or microsoft doesn't really matter now, does it? | 19:12 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: not actually sure how much to charge, it without any notice, needed the servers back up ASAP. | 19:12 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: you're a freelancer? | 19:13 |
| zeq_laptop | should have taken the time to negotiate rate first :P | 19:13 |
| zeq_laptop | yeah | 19:13 |
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| beford | not sure how microsoft gets away with that | 19:13 |
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| Jaffa | Woody14619: Interesting log from last week's council meeting | 19:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | teotwaki, we'd have voted to mail you a bag of rusty nails instead. :P | 19:21 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: BTW, copied over the stub issue to edit.mwkn.net for any partial enrichment over the next few days. And thanks again for your efforts whilst I was away | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, good, Sunday evenings just aren't a high-productivity time for me. | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | And no problem. You deserve a vacation more than most. ;) | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | morning | 19:33 |
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| * DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ShadowJK already is swimming drowned in a lake, naked and intoxicated | 19:37 | |
| ShadowJK | not quite | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so I'll try to do some of the duties on your behalf now ;-P | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Feel free to copy it over yourself if you get bored during the week and have some time. No reason we should be rushing around at weekends ;-) | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, did you get my email from last week? | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | at least the alcohol elimination I'm going to try and help | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: I gather no parcel service today? | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1225816&postcount=227 | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | What am I supposed to do with guys like that one ?!? | 19:42 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: I think the garage ssh problem I'm having is with my ssh config. Just tried it on my server, it worked fine! | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | freemangordon, mail him a notarized apology letter? | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | zeq_laptop: yeah, same here | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | GeneralAntilles: hmm, good idea :D | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Although that might be construed as admitting guilt | 19:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | which would be undesirable if he sues you in small claims court. | 19:43 |
| ShadowJK | I havent checked, but I doubt there's even regular mail today | 19:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Off to work. | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: nand-erase, statically linked | 19:45 |
| freemangordon | hmm, you mean nolo? | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | and x-loader | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | I mean erase mtd* | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | yeah, the same | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | I've done once by mistake here, cold-flashing fus a fun | 19:47 |
| freemangordon | *was | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah | 19:47 |
| freemangordon | givven there are no instructions how to be done | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | then just tell him he needs to cool down N900 to <10K for coldflash to work | 19:48 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | (no instructions) I thought somebody added a jacekowski quote to ~flqshing wiki? | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~coldflash | 19:51 |
| infobot | somebody said coldflash was http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-31.log.html#t2010-10-31T23:09:54 and next ~200 posts, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware/Cold_Flashing | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | freemangordon: GeneralAntilles: kp50 breaks? | 19:51 |
| freemangordon | luke-jr: It does not have errata workaround | 19:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes, but only if cold and under severe pressure | 19:51 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | otherwise it just deforms elastically | 19:52 |
| freemangordon | LMAO | 19:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: pali: got a link for you, just need to dig it up again when at home | 19:55 |
| freemangordon | good, what is at the other end of the link? | 19:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | a kernel devfel's blog post | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | with more nice links | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | good | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | you have thumb errata upstreaming in mind? | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | :P | 19:57 |
| freemangordon | s/errata/errata workaround/ | 19:58 |
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| MrPingu | freemangordon: That cow, is really a cow? How hard is it to read the first post? | 20:38 |
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| Viltzu | Tell me how to get gcc-4.4 or newer in scratchbox :| | 20:42 |
| freemangordon | MrPingu: unfortunately, yes :( | 20:42 |
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| BCat2000 | hellos | 20:46 |
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| zeq_laptop | freemangordon: Viltzu: I'll write that scratchbox/thumb/gcc-4.6+ howto as soon as I've finished building linaro-gcc. | 20:47 |
| Viltzu | ok. ;u | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | chem|st: While I agree, I'm not defending... I'm simply noting that the rules were followed. | 20:48 |
| Woody14619 | Jaffa: In what way? | 20:48 |
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| Woody14619 | chem|st: I'm confused by your last reply. 5 N950 loaners for what? | 20:49 |
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| Macer | haha | 20:59 |
| Macer | give me an n950 loaner! | 20:59 |
| Macer | does the n950 support the att freq for 4G? | 20:59 |
| Macer | *4G | 21:00 |
| Macer | * might not get 3G speeds | 21:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | freemangordon: sure | 21:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | ShadowJK: you inow tschunk? | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | know* | 21:29 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 21:30 |
| Sicelo | meh .. non-booting N900 here :( | 21:31 |
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| Viltzu | asdf rootfs full again... | 21:32 |
| Viltzu | Sicelo, reflash? | 21:33 |
| Sicelo | lol | 21:33 |
| Sicelo | not so fast :D | 21:33 |
| Viltzu | :D | 21:33 |
| Sicelo | been wanting to do that since a while ago .. but i'm sure it will boot before i go that far | 21:33 |
| Viltzu | What to do when rootfs is full and not sure what to delete.. | 21:35 |
| Viltzu | /usr/lib takes 166M | 21:35 |
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| NIN101 | basically there ways to move "not-so-important" stuff to /home/ and symlink... | 21:44 |
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| NIN101 | Viltzu: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space | 21:45 |
| Viltzu | Yes symlinking would be good. | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~optification | 21:46 |
| infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" | 21:46 |
| NIN101 | how true. | 21:47 |
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| Sicelo | an, NIN101 is here :) | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway it's probably a sane thing to do a df -h *before* and after installation of any suspicious crap | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and have a BM backup for easy + complete rollback | 21:50 |
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| Sicelo | i think mine has been possibly corrupted by the ungraceful shutdowns i have these days. loose battery :( | 21:51 |
| Lava_Croft | just bend the metal pins a bit | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | now that you're already fsckd by 0% free on /, I guess a reflash is your best option | 21:52 |
| Lava_Croft | or use some paper or whatever to make sure the batttery dont come loose | 21:52 |
| NIN101 | or boot rescue os and nuke crap away. anyway, bbl. | 21:52 |
| Sicelo | DocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 05 free from | 21:52 |
| Sicelo | s/05/0%/ | 21:53 |
| infobot | Sicelo meant: DocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 0% free from | 21:53 |
| Viltzu | wut? | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *I* pulled that from "not booting" and "usr/lib needs 188MB" | 21:54 |
| Sicelo | that's not my N900 | 21:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | aah | 21:54 |
| Sicelo | yeah. i believe my problem is related to unexpected shutdowns (due to battery). what i've now done is put some kitchen foil in the battery contacts to 'improve' conductivity | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | WUT?? | 21:57 |
| Sicelo | :P | 21:57 |
| Sicelo | bending the pins doesn't seem to be helping me | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | pins? | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | battery contacts | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you mean the spring brackets? | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | yeah | 21:58 |
| Sicelo | on battery, not n900 | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | they should touch | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | almost | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or actually | 21:59 |
| Sicelo | exactly ..mine don't .. they don't seem to be springy enough :? | 21:59 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe you broke them? | 21:59 |
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| Sicelo | they still look fine. | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bnding both sides in with a pin seems to help, usually | 22:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the two "balls" should almost touch | 22:01 |
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| Sicelo | just one quick thing.. btw what's the file in which i can enable fbcon? | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you need to go behind the sring latch to bend it inwards | 22:01 |
| Sicelo | i'll try that DocScrutinizer51 | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | devconfig? | 22:02 |
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| Sicelo | ah, got it. /sbin/preinit , it seems | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | mhm | 22:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | thanks, didn't know | 22:03 |
| Sicelo | at least my debian still runs happily :P | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | if only... | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | with the future of our repos looking bleak, i wonder | 22:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | meh, other devices never had any repo | 22:08 |
| Sicelo | looks like it's dsme that requests a shutdown of my n900 | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and we already got 25 dozen mirrors | 22:09 |
| Sicelo | DocScrutinizer51: are those mirrors open to the public? | 22:09 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | usually | 22:09 |
| Sicelo | got the cause of my problem .. unknown battery something | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 22:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | your BSI contact borked | 22:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or your BME got nausea for some reason | 22:11 |
| Sicelo | i'm checking bsi right now | 22:11 |
| Sicelo | those repos.. they will be public? | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | you don't modprobe bq27k.ko for any reason? | 22:11 |
| Sicelo | nah, not bq27.. | 22:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | (repos) ask jacekowski, merlin1991 | 22:12 |
| Sicelo | i know for sure my Maemo is relatively sane atm. it's just my battery that's mad :D | 22:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | seems we're rapidly heading towards even more 'official' alternatives for repos | 22:13 |
| Sicelo | ah, that's a great development :) | 22:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | anyway, got me two Tschunk, now I'm fine. Anf off | 22:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | And* | 22:14 |
| Sicelo | cya | 22:15 |
| Sicelo | ;) | 22:15 |
| * Sicelo doesn't like the battery & contacts combo of N900 as similar ones. | 22:17 | |
| Sicelo | the old types, eg BL-5C were so much better | 22:18 |
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| Sicelo | lol, so we're already using itt 0.o | 22:28 |
| Sicelo | ~itt | 22:28 |
| infobot | [itt] the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) | 22:28 |
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| NIN101 | "Paul Sleggs (vi_) will receive N950. " joke? | 22:41 |
| hiemanshu | NIN101: where? | 22:42 |
| NIN101 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards#Winners | 22:43 |
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| Raimu | Why'd it be a joke? | 22:44 |
| NIN101 | well, I may be wrong, but the self-nomination itself read like a joke. Also I don't remember much technical contributions. | 22:44 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I couldn't care l4ess to comment on a Community Award that's so much community driven that even nominations are only allowed in form of self-nomination | 22:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it's also totally obscure to me what's the expected "return of inverstment" of that CA | 22:50 |
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| NIN101 | no offense, but I could basically name a few people who would deserve it more than some winners (and yes, they applied). But anyway, I know why I didn't even tried to get free aegis fun. Even if can be turned off now more or less (not folling the whole story anymore), I have principles :P. | 22:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 22:52 |
| Sicelo | principles \m/ | 22:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp when I take into account the incredibly poor adaption of HARM to N950 with hw kbd | 22:53 |
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| Woody14619 | NIN01: You need to read what the CA was about. It was not about technical input, coding, or the like. Nor is there any expected "return" on any of it. It was about PAST accomplisments in building community. | 22:55 |
| * Woody14619 gets tired of people whining about "what are they promising" and "they're not coders". | 22:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | __\m/__\m/__\m/__ | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ( ^^ barbwire) | 22:56 |
| Woody14619 | You want a coding awards, go to CC, QT5, or other coding competitions. | 22:56 |
| Woody14619 | Lol. :) Cute doc. :) | 22:57 |
| Woody14619 | Is that to keep me out, you in, or both? ;) | 22:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's to secure my principles | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | putting money into sth you don't expect *anything* from, seems ... absolutely fool action | 22:59 |
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| NIN101 | Woody14619: Ok. But the way vi_ talks with people (esp. newbies) let's me think that he doesn't deserve one, to put it bluntly. | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even millionairs giving away their whole fortune do that as they hope to at least feel better afterwards | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this CA has *no* visible benefit, in my book | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | except maybe for Nokia, to pollish their image a tiny itsy teeny bit | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and to clean out their rubbish store | 23:01 |
| Woody14619 | Someone else said something similar.. about how giving bonuses at work for past work is also foolish. Do you agree on that? | 23:01 |
| Woody14619 | Frankly, it's the same thing... an award for past performance.... | 23:01 |
| Woody14619 | But companies do that all the time... | 23:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no, I think that's a sane thing to increase moral in your employee crew, and to strengthen identification | 23:02 |
| Woody14619 | And it seems to work pretty well in some areas. | 23:02 |
| Woody14619 | And you don't see that working here in the same way? | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no way | 23:02 |
| vi__ | So you think I am a jerk? | 23:02 |
| vi__ | Thats ok. | 23:02 |
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| Woody14619 | That giving a "bonus" to those that promoted community will not inspire them to continue that work, maybe even in the new community their new device gives them access into now? | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: don't try to be jerkish, that's my domain ;-P | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: for now it doesn't seem like council at large sees GARM as any significant part of community at all | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HARM even | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | I think it has a better chance than not... given the recipients (minus one or two, but then I was 100% on with my votes vs the final count. ;) | 23:04 |
| NIN101 | Woody14619: Can we see the rationals behind each decision? | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NIN101: I doubt council is fully aware of that | 23:04 |
| Woody14619 | doc: Do you think that will change, now that 4 of 5 council have a harmattan device? | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | honestly? no | 23:05 |
| Woody14619 | Nin101: Can I see you tax return? | 23:05 |
| NIN101 | aha. ok. cool. | 23:05 |
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| Woody14619 | Frankly, the process we uses was laid out in the mess of a thread on TMO... | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: particularly since HARM is waaaay more a walking dead than maemo will ever be | 23:06 |
| Woody14619 | If you're interested in process, and lists, and what not, go read that. | 23:06 |
| *** perlite has quit IRC | 23:06 | |
| *** perlite_ is now known as perlite | 23:07 | |
| Woody14619 | In some ways, that could be argued. But even the black sheep of the family is still family... | 23:07 |
| _|Nix|_ | Hey! I'm trying to get host mode working on my N810. I have a Nokia CA-157 cable and a USB stick. I tried to install usb-otg-plugin and place the device into host mode using it. However, when I plug the stick into the cable, nothing happens. | 23:07 |
| * Sicelo is also rather surprised that no return at all is expected from CA programme. Then again, it's done :P | 23:07 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: ...and luring devels away from maemo5 towards and into HARM already did incredible damage to maemo5 community | 23:07 |
| _|Nix|_ | Don't I need some kernel modules or something? Like, usb_storage or something? | 23:08 |
| * Woody14619 knows.... trust me... There are TMO threads full of me screaming about just that. | 23:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I'm basically fine with council ignoring HARM, and I don't see this changing anyway | 23:08 |
| _|Nix|_ | Also, I'm not convinced that usb-otg-plugin is doing its job, because /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode reads "UNDEFINED". | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: try PC connectivity manager, or USB hostmode | 23:09 |
| Woody14619 | I'll note, on TMO I said as much.. That I was excited and sad to give N9 to top devels. Excited to see what becomes of it (and how it could unite the communities), and sad because we are losing some resources (even if they split time, it's still a loss over all) | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: I don't think automatic switching to host mode works on N810 | 23:09 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: I'm trying to switch manually with usb-otg-plugin. | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of that | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | who said we're going to sue harm there? | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | I'm going to put Mer as soon as I receive it | 23:10 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: OK ... I've heard of "hostmode" - where do I get it? | 23:10 |
| Estel_ | even considering that Mer adaptation for N9/50 isn't as good as for N900 ;) | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | mompls | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | seriously though, harmattan is just another branch of Maemo Community | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | as BNF kernel was | 23:11 |
| Estel_ | or CSSU is | 23:11 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 snatches his N810 | 23:11 | |
| Estel_ | or CSSU-thumb is | 23:11 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for helping ... | 23:11 |
| Woody14619 | Estel_, Mer, Harmattan, reguardless and N9/N950 can't run Fremantle. Attention will be diverted. | 23:13 |
| vi__ | People are pretty upset that these 'dev kits' are being squandered on scum like me. | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | vi_, honestly, not very much | 23:13 |
| vi__ | Has no one realised the N9 is the ultimate N9 dev kit? | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | we've, literally, 4 jerks | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | screaming loudly | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | on TMO | 23:13 |
| Woody14619 | And is it me, or does using the abbriviation "harm" for harmattan seem more fitting, given Aires rants in TMO recently? | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | and pretending that they're an army. | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: I got "advanced power settings" which is a battery icon in systray. It has a switched "host"/"OTG" under "USB" menu item | 23:13 |
| vi__ | Which you can request from noka as a developer. | 23:13 |
| Estel_ | yea | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | vi_, You got x votes out of x council members, so rest assured ;) | 23:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "Advanced Power 0.4.1-6" "Advanced Power Monitor 0.5.1-6" | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, Aries is really hopeless | 23:14 |
| vi__ | Estel_: shhhh. I do actually feel a little guilty. | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | guy leaving harmattan as soon as Nokia announce it's really dead... | 23:14 |
| Estel_ | ...but running for Council 3 weeks ago | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | and claiming that by insulting him I'm insulting the community... I know.. :P | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | ...that seems to be absolutely unpenetrable by simple answer "Ca doesn't have anything to do with future promises"... | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | yea | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | He got quite a bit of ego, I'll give him that much. | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | BTw, in Harm world, he is barely known | 23:15 |
| Woody14619 | lol | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | sounds like harm have their own abil_uk | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: you're still here? | 23:15 |
| Estel_ | vi_, no worries, You're going to pay for receiving N950 :P | 23:16 |
| Woody14619 | and with that.. I'm back to doing minutes so I can avoid it on the weekend. ;) | 23:16 |
| vi__ | Can the council not get abill permabanned? | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | I've already written, that any bastard complaining, that he havem't got device, can write Pm to You... | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | and you will volunteer to reply him where he can put his complains and how to smoke it | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | vi_, we can't. TMO is Reggie thing | 23:16 |
| Estel_ | ask chem|st about that, he is supermoderator | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | he got device too, he could at least do one favor for the communitym and ban abil :P | 23:17 |
| Estel_ | Woody14619, take Your time | 23:17 |
| Raimu | vi__: Hey, congrats on winning. Your text was humorous. I do notice you blast a lot of memes over at TMO, but mostly it's all good by me. :3 | 23:17 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Rebooting as requested by the installation of advanced-power. | 23:17 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: ... Nokia hands ... | 23:17 |
| vi__ | Raimu: Thank you. | 23:18 |
| Sicelo | qgil has been asking for a while now for a vision/direction of where we want to go. /me wonders if he has got any responses yet | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | Sicelo, where we want to go with what? | 23:18 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: back to internettablettalk domain with debian style repos for all the devices. | 23:18 |
| Raimu | Nokia hands is much nicer when you kill the sound from the video file and make it play at 60FPS. :D | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | I can suggest him few` new employers, but I'm sure he will manage to do it himself | 23:18 |
| Estel_ | It starts to look like one hand open and another showing middle finger? | 23:19 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Mine says "Unknown mode" under USB and it's grayed out. Do I need some kind of special kernel? | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: in PC Connectivit ymanager in settings panel you find - under "network manager" "USB" a menu with "mass storage", "network", and "Host Mode" | 23:19 |
| Raimu | vi__: Also, you're definitely much more help than hindrance by all accounts, so by all means a prize deserved. | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: (special kernel) not afaik | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | vi_, Reggie isn't interested in hosating forum for independent community without big company paying bills. | 23:19 |
| Estel_ | ironically, Nemein is much more willing to participate | 23:19 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: What is "PC connectivity manager"? | 23:20 |
| vi__ | who is reggie? | 23:20 |
| vi__ | I know of him but who is his employer? | 23:20 |
| *** jhb has quit IRC | 23:20 | |
| vi__ | Is he a volunteer? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: an app | 23:21 |
| vi__ | Is it his webserver? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 23:21 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: So I probably need to install that. | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | afaik | 23:21 |
| vi__ | Nokia pay him to use it? | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think Nokia pays some of the expense | 23:21 |
| vi__ | Who pays the rest? | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NFC | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who cares? | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | vi_, | 23:22 |
| vi__ | HAH! | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | Reggie is guy who formed internettablettalk | 23:22 |
| vi__ | Estel_: I assumed that. | 23:22 |
| vi__ | Will he let is have the domain name? | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | vi_, he, rfeportedly, gets ncioe contract with Nokia | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | i.e. he get more than needed to pay bills ;) | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | but, not to clal him full time worker | 23:22 |
| Estel_ | anyway, it seems for him, that having Nokia funding is much more profitable than adverts. | 23:23 |
| vi__ | web hosting costs like £60 per year. | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty doon | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | s/doon/soon/ | 23:23 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty soon | 23:23 |
| vi__ | For a 'full fat' service. | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | vi_,, such huge thing little more, but, anyway | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | probably, You need to add one 0 to get sum he's getting ;) | 23:23 |
| Estel_ | (disclaimer - it was pure assumption from my side) | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: in belarus? | 23:24 |
| Estel_ | lol | 23:24 |
| vi__ | Point is, I could host the forum on my webserver. (rented from bluehost) | 23:24 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: wut? | 23:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for 10..15EUR you get a weak vserver here | 23:24 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: Imma fae scotland pal. | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in EU | 23:25 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: I am talking about a full fat, no limits all the bells and whistles web server. | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nozt that tmo was really hardened against any DoS attack | 23:25 |
| *** hurbu has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| vi__ | A client pays me for it to host their site. | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | uhuh, with how many hits per day? | 23:26 |
| vi__ | I dunno, like 10. | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nos: | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tmo might have 10k/d | 23:26 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: so. | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus 100k attacks | 23:27 |
| vi__ | At £60 a year I will expect them to handle it. | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 23:27 |
| vi__ | The point is we have resources. | 23:27 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Well, I found it, but when I click on the PC connectivity icon in the status bar, it still has a checkbox next to USB file storage. | 23:27 |
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| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: And when I look at the advanced power thing, it still says "Unknown mode" under USB. | 23:28 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Maybe I should reboot and try again. | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | _|Nix|_: dunno, I just recall there were like 3 apps, with 2 of them borked after 2008 OS update, and one should still work | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pc connectivity manager has a plugin for settings page | 23:29 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: That's where I went. I chose host mode from the dropdown, save, apply. | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, froze my N810 for ~20s | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I guess it tried to do sth | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I last time played with all that stuff like 3 years ago | 23:31 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: OK - it turned on my USB stick this time, so maybe it did something right. | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 23:31 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Me too, but I'm looking for a cheap Web server until my Raspberry PI arrives ... | 23:31 |
| Venemo_N9 | hey guys | 23:31 |
| Woody14619 | vi__: To clarify, Reggie has noted he's happy to provide us with a dump and full configs for the server TMO runs on. | 23:32 |
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| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Well, slap me around and call me Suzy! It worked! | 23:33 |
| Woody14619 | vi__: The issue is the cost of hosting it. I can tell you for 60lb/year, you'll get about 2 days of service before they cite their usage policy and either boot you or demand more money. :) | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 23:33 |
| _|Nix|_ | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks 1e6 for your help! | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 23:33 |
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| * _|Nix|_ go try it with the real thing now (SATA drive enclosure instead of USB stick). | 23:33 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lol | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not with USB vbus power | 23:34 |
| vi__ | Woody14619: well. I just want to do my bit. | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc the N810 can deliver scarce 100mA | 23:34 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: 100mA!!!! | 23:35 |
| vi__ | DUMP THE WARP CORE. | 23:35 |
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| vi__ | That is too much power, | 23:35 |
| Venemo_N9 | lol | 23:35 |
| vi__ | ^,/. | 23:35 |
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| Woody14619 | Though honestly, bluehost (and others) have lots of options for higher use systems like TMO, and it's not super expensive, all said. | 23:35 |
| vi__ | Some other forums I use have adverts. | 23:36 |
| Woody14619 | We're talking more 30/month vs 60/year, but even that is far less than it was, say 5 years ago.. | 23:36 |
| vi__ | Not shit loads of them, just one at the top and one at the bottom. | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, for 30EUR a month you get a decent server | 23:36 |
| vi__ | I dont mind, I turn ABP off for those forums. | 23:36 |
| * Woody14619 nods. | 23:37 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with real mysql and all the shite | 23:37 |
| vi__ | Is there anyone from the netherlands here? | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I once offered to pay those 30 bucks | 23:37 |
| * Woody14619 stays away from netherlands... (too many crabs) | 23:38 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but some dudes thought it's just a game to administrate, and I should just give them root so they can hand oit to whonmever volunteers | 23:38 |
| vi__ | did 'itsnotabigtruck' create the 'inception' hax? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's never been the deal | 23:39 |
| freemangordon | vi_: yes | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, also you can never give these kind of people access to the reboot button, they press it zillion times a day | 23:39 |
| vi__ | So HE haxed aegis? | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: yep, kinda. Though I'd claim it's been javispedro who actually invented it | 23:39 |
| Woody14619 | Really, keeping TMO afloat would be pretty simple. A paypal account and another mod or two to volunteer, and you're done. | 23:40 |
| * vi__ cracks open a cold can. | 23:40 | |
| Woody14619 | The costly ones to keep up are the builders and the repos. CPU & traffic on those sucks the $$$. | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 23:40 |
| vi__ | Woody14619: can we not move to a local build dydtem? | 23:41 |
| vi__ | ^system | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619: if we are allowed to have what is needed for autobuilder | 23:41 |
| vi__ | have people build packages on their local machine and upload the packages or something? | 23:41 |
| Woody14619 | Sure... but it's a bit more scattered that way. And there's the issue of getting the distributables needed. | 23:41 |
| freemangordon | otherwise what vi__ is saying remains the only option | 23:41 |
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| Woody14619 | We actually have that prett covered in OBS freemangordon... | 23:42 |
| freemangordon | we were discussing something like that with merlin1991, fortunately he has all of the stuff neded | 23:42 |
| Woody14619 | Assuming we can get that off the ground before the mower comes. | 23:43 |
| freemangordon | Woody14619: which is in the same boat as maemo, ain't? | 23:43 |
| vi__ | wait, I thought eyes and itsnotabigtruck already had N9? How else are they devloping there things? | 23:43 |
| vi__ | ^there/their | 23:43 |
| freemangordon | vi__, by using the simulator in Qt SDK | 23:43 |
| freemangordon | :P | 23:43 |
| vi__ | he haxed aegis in the qt simulator?? | 23:43 |
| vi__ | 0_0 | 23:44 |
| Woody14619 | Yes and no... If we get it packaged up, then it's quite portable. Yes, it has the same issue with the EULA, so whomever houses it has to EULA to get the stuff on their local machine to build (same as private build setups are now) | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi__: who gives a shit? | 23:44 |
| freemangordon | vi__: of course not, he has a device | 23:44 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: because the CA shitstorm has me kinda bummed out. | 23:44 |
| vi__ | ^bummed me out. | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | CA pissed me off | 23:44 |
| * Woody14619 avoids that for today... too much else going on, and frankly, it's friday... | 23:45 | |
| vi__ | everything pisses you off. | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp since somebody claimed those who got a loaner may not receive a gift | 23:45 |
| vi__ | liberals, weak pullups, etc. | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly from the very moment it started to feel like the new king is throwing gold on his people | 23:46 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer05: steady on. | 23:47 |
| Woody14619 | Doc, that was a given before the contest even happened. And frankly, people were told that when they applied. Nobody picked was given a device if they had won one (or loaned one) from a previous competition or program. | 23:47 |
| Woody14619 | Those rules came with the CA. | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so what? does it make the rule more sane? | 23:47 |
| Woody14619 | Well, I don't make the rules... just reporting them. :) | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | plus IIRC the rule didn't even mention any excemt when you broke, lost, or gave back your loaner | 23:49 |
| Woody14619 | Personally, I'd have prefered not to been involved in the whole process. :) | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly like me | 23:49 |
| * Woody14619 nods | 23:50 | |
| Venemo_N9 | so, what'll happen to maemo.org | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it will die after two more CA events | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dissolve on e one gigantic troll explosion | 23:50 |
| Venemo_N9 | CA? | 23:50 |
| Woody14619 | That's not a known yet. There's even a slim chance funding will extend to 2013, based on release contracts in India/Asia... | 23:51 |
| freemangordon | aah, not again :P | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Woody14619: that won't stop the trolls raid all over "the community", with useless threads with flamewars about CA rules and how shitty the winners are | 23:52 |
| Woody14619 | But the only thing we know for sure now is through end of the year. Anything after that is crystal ball gazing. | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | two more CA and maemo.org is dead | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the community | 23:52 |
| Woody14619 | Happily, I don't think there will be another. | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pfooooh, God gracious | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you asked what is the added value. | 23:52 |
| freemangordon | for Nokia I mean | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably exactly that? | 23:53 |
| Woody14619 | More shelf space in a warehouse? ;) | 23:53 |
| freemangordon | ;) | 23:53 |
| NIN101 | lol. | 23:53 |
| vi__ | hah. | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and pretty please no more CA at beginning of a council term!!! | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it just feels too much like USA president election funding | 23:56 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: There was no other option AIUI, the previous council was an one man show | 23:56 |
| freemangordon | yuo can imagne the shitload SD69 would'd had if he was to decide the winners alone | 23:57 |
| freemangordon | aah, finally, fennec .deb is ready | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's been a terrible idea all together. Council should've kept the whole pool of devices for handing them out to active developers who need a replacement or a loaner, on council's very own discretion, at any time due | 23:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | even maybe try to swap several of them for new N900, on ebay or where ever | 23:59 |
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| ds3 | and why isn't there a hardware development category? | 23:59 |
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