IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2012-06-22

DocScrutinizer05and I'd assume this will bite our ass (away) for H-D00:00
ZogG_laptopif you take blue pill you 'll find out how deep the rabbit hole is, it you take red pill ...00:00
DocScrutinizer05as definitely some idiot did "if (a == b) {..." in there00:01
*** paroneayea has joined #maemo00:01
*** dos1 has joined #maemo00:01
DocScrutinizer05for reals the == comparator is forbidden00:01
ZogG_laptopis it hildon or what?00:02
*** D has joined #maemo00:02
*** D is now known as Guest6817300:02
*** Guest68173 has quit IRC00:03
*** android_user has joined #maemo00:04
infobotDocScrutinizer05 meant: for floats the == comparator is forbidden00:04
*** r00t|n900 has quit IRC00:05
cehtehforbidden isnt really true .. but some people may be surprised by the results00:05
*** dos1 has quit IRC00:06
*** dos1 has joined #maemo00:06
*** Venemo has quit IRC00:07
*** messerting has quit IRC00:08
*** cuppsy has quit IRC00:10
*** schen has joined #maemo00:11
*** cuppsy has joined #maemo00:11
DocScrutinizer05to make things worse, N900 CPU is really really weak on floats00:14
DocScrutinizer05and I wonder WTF for you need a float accuracy on a screen with 800*48000:15
zeq_laptopN900 isn't weak on floats if you use NEON00:15
*** robink has quit IRC00:15
DocScrutinizer05damn, a gifted coder handles that stuff with int1600:15
DocScrutinizer05zeq_laptop: are you sure, yes?00:15
zeq_laptopit's just that the VFPLite is insanely slow00:15
zeq_laptopAbsolutely sure00:16
DocScrutinizer05then tell me why qt got abyssmally slow when using floats for gfx00:16
zeq_laptopbecause it wasn't using neon?00:17
DocScrutinizer05you know how math coprocs work?00:17
DocScrutinizer05you know the diff in CPU cycles between a R3 / R4 vs a div_float( R4, R3)?00:18
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer51 trolls oldschool =0)00:18
zeq_laptopactually no, I don't. I'd have to look it up.  But yes simple integer math is going to be much slower00:19
DocScrutinizer05you, Sir, made it off my /ignore for very unknown reasons00:19
*** cyborg-one has quit IRC00:20
zeq_laptopI know back in the early days FP was handled through a trap handler00:20
zeq_laptopon ARMs00:20
zeq_laptopin those days using floats was crazy insane00:21
zeq_laptopyet people still did, because it made coding much easier00:21
*** trbs has quit IRC00:22
zeq_laptopeven though for every float op the cpu had to generate an illegal instruction and have the OS execute a handler to perform the op before restoring normal excecution00:22
zeq_laptopam I on ignore?00:22
DocScrutinizer05not you00:23
ZogG_laptopi think me00:23
zeq_laptopoh ok00:24
ZogG_laptopi just think people can advise and suggest instead beeing "O RLY?" or "IT's STUPUD" =)00:24
infobotZogG_laptop meant: DocScrutinizer51,i just think people can advise and suggest instead beeing "O RLY?" or "IT's STUPUD" =)00:25
zeq_laptopIt doesn't worry me, I respect Doc, I just not as ignorant about ARM CPUs as he might have thought00:26
zeq_laptopit's an interesting topic00:26
DocScrutinizer05I asked00:26
DocScrutinizer05I'm actually not absolutely sure myself, so I asked if you have hard numbers00:27
zeq_laptopThe thing about ARMs is there's really never been a standard FP coproc00:27
ZogG_laptopi don't have any clue in this topic as the most DocScrutinizer51 is an expert, it just amuse the way he react =) and not in the bad way, as i just know him for a while here =)00:27
vi__"I did absolutely nothing for Harmattan and I don't plan to." --freemangordon on winning an N950.00:27
vi__Trollmode highest level.00:28
ZogG_laptopvi__: yeah i saw it, he made my day00:28
DocScrutinizer05vi__: sanest statement ever ;-D00:28
zeq_laptopthat is funny00:29
*** robink_ has joined #maemo00:31
DocScrutinizer05zeq_laptop: honestly, I think your post "yet people still did, because it made coding much easier" was absolutely to the point and still valid nowadays. And your other considerations regarding speed of int32 math vs neon accelerated float math are as well, though maybe not as extreme as they been a few years and CPU generations ago00:36
*** dos1 has quit IRC00:36
DocScrutinizer05ARMv4(?) not even had a hw-div00:37
zeq_laptopnope. ARM1 didn't even have hw-mul!00:37
zeq_laptopnot that many used an ARM1 ;)00:38
*** dos1 has joined #maemo00:38
zeq_laptopkind of wanted one at the time though00:39
zeq_laptopsecond CPU for BBC Micro tube bus00:39
ZogG_laptopfreemangordon: man, you are on fire on that thread, but you as well flooding it with arguing =\00:40
*** nox- has joined #maemo00:41
*** habmala has quit IRC00:44
*** ferdna has quit IRC00:44
*** android_user has quit IRC00:45
DocScrutinizer05nowanyway afaik you still need to shove your 64bit operands to the NEON, and after executing the math op you need to pull the result from there00:45
vi__well THAT thread is escalating quickly.00:46
DocScrutinizer05am I missing another lesson why I usually don't read tmo? ;-P00:47
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer51: there are nice thing there too btw00:48
ZogG_laptopoh i forgot you ignore me00:48
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer05: if you want to rewrite hildon-desktop to use integer math... :)00:49
zeq_laptopanyway it seems to be working ok :)00:49
DocScrutinizer05I'd actually suggest that00:49
zeq_laptopit isn't a bad idea, but it is quite a project00:50
DocScrutinizer05shouldn't be too hard00:50
DocScrutinizer05if it's coded with floats it needs a tough code review anyway ;-)00:50
zeq_laptoptrue :)00:51
DocScrutinizer05as devels using floats usually do it the wrong way00:51
zeq_laptopthere are probably easier targers for float elminination in the stack though00:51
infobotzeq_laptop meant: there are probably easier targets for float elminination in the stack though00:51
DocScrutinizer05qt comes to mind, but then otoh that's probably a really heavy project00:52
zeq_laptopI'd be all for removing any usage of vfp at all00:52
zeq_laptopat least that way neon optimized code has a chance of running properly without stalls00:52
DocScrutinizer05aaah stalls00:53
* DocScrutinizer05 needs to switch to 64bit OS on his 8GB RAM laptop00:54
zeq_laptopyes you do :)00:54
*** robink_ has quit IRC00:54
*** piggz__ has quit IRC00:54
*** peetah has joined #maemo00:55
DocScrutinizer05I'd bet it are the malloc() that cause these nasty 30s stalls00:55
DocScrutinizer05*might* be the graca as well00:56
DocScrutinizer05(lenovo T500 with external gfx card)00:57
DocScrutinizer05maybe a combination of both00:57
zeq_laptopexternal? dockingstation? displaylink?00:57
DocScrutinizer05nah, this dual-graca thing00:58
DocScrutinizer05chipset intl graca plus dedicated00:58
zeq_laptopnever heard of it and google doesn't seem to help00:59
DocScrutinizer05I guess this AMD graca driver has maybe problems with 8GB RAM00:59
zeq_laptopATI HD5870?00:59
zeq_laptopwhat OS do you use doc?01:00
zeq_laptopon the laptop01:00
*** dos1 has quit IRC01:01
DocScrutinizer0501:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV635 [Mobility Radeon HD 3650]01:01
*** jrocha has quit IRC01:02
DocScrutinizer05plus the standard intel chipset integrated gfx01:03
*** guampa has joined #maemo01:03
ShadowJKbtw, on Cortex a8, neon can execute in parallell with arm :)01:04
DocScrutinizer05windows7 allegedly can switch on the fly01:04
*** robink_ has joined #maemo01:04
*** kerio has quit IRC01:04
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: doesn't help much when ARM doesn't have anything to do meanwhile ;-D01:04
*** Scorcerer has quit IRC01:05
zeq_laptophildon-desktop definite feels snappier01:05
zeq_laptopmaybe placebo though :)01:05
DocScrutinizer05with NEON?01:05
zeq_laptopapp menu in particular01:05
DocScrutinizer05or what exactly got changed so it snaps now?01:06
ShadowJKIt hardly does anything, dunno how it could be snappier :P01:06
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: scrolling does a bit01:07
DocScrutinizer05scaling prolly too01:07
DocScrutinizer05and transitions... DUH01:07
zeq_laptopI rebased this on top of the thumb-testing version01:08
zeq_laptopthen compiled with -fmpu=neon01:08
zeq_laptopI wasn't actually expecting a perceptable difference01:08
DocScrutinizer05and arceans-HD-float does what? as compared to std hd01:08
zeq_laptopelimitates unnecessary usage of double01:09
*** Venusaur has quit IRC01:09
zeq_laptopVFP and NEON don't really do double01:09
DocScrutinizer05well, not wasting 2 registers for one var for sure makes a hellufalot of diff01:10
DocScrutinizer05compiler tries to pass function args in registers01:10
DocScrutinizer05this limits args to functions to 4 * 32bit iirc01:10
DocScrutinizer05otherwise stack01:10
DocScrutinizer05using 64bit vars obviously defeats the strategy01:11
DocScrutinizer05let alone the math01:11
*** dhbiker has quit IRC01:11
ShadowJKhm, I thought hardfp was about passing float/double in registers? And currently the ABI passes float/double on stack?01:12
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: yup, but aiui NEON regs01:12
jacekowskiit doesn't really matter that much01:13
jacekowskistack is cache backed anyways01:13
* ShadowJK vaguely recalls meego people saying it gave speed boost01:13
jacekowskiyeah, maybe01:13
jacekowskii can't see it being huge01:13
DocScrutinizer05but you need to push before gosub (err branch), and pop afterwards01:14
jacekowskii would say it's somewhere between minimal and immeasurable01:14
DocScrutinizer05avoiding uselass doubles in vars makes a lot of sense01:14
DocScrutinizer05every day01:15
jacekowskiShadowJK: on x86 x86 can execute in parallel with x8601:15
*** OkropNick has quit IRC01:15
jacekowskiShadowJK: and well, on arm is parallel with arm01:15
jacekowskiit's not exactly sequential execution01:16
jacekowskiinstructions are executed in parallel with each other01:16
*** etrunko has quit IRC01:16
*** Venusaur has joined #maemo01:17
DocScrutinizer05dang, past midnight already01:17
DocScrutinizer05now that we have a nice bunch of savvy people here, discussing interesting stuff01:17
*** ferdna has joined #maemo01:18
ShadowJKtomorrow is public holiday here01:18
ShadowJKmidsummer :)01:18
DocScrutinizer05haha, you're late01:18
zeq_laptopyes, it's a good discussion, but I'd better get to bed!01:18
DocScrutinizer05zeq_laptop: I'd appreciate continuing this discussion next day01:19
zeq_laptopsounds good DocScrutinizer05. night all!01:20
*** Dibblah has quit IRC01:20
*** robink_ is now known as robink01:22
*** robink has joined #maemo01:22
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: wasn't longest day like 4:34 last night?01:22
DocScrutinizer05or even the night before??01:23
ShadowJKmaybe, but public holiday in middle of week is pointless01:23
ShadowJKyou need a long weekend to get rid of hangovers01:24
DocScrutinizer05aah well, I guess you celebrate midsummer on 22nd of June each year01:24
*** florian has quit IRC01:24
DocScrutinizer05or do you actually celebrate on first Friday after astronomical event?01:25
ShadowJK"Since 1955, the holiday has always been on a Saturday (between June 20 and June 26). Earlier it was always on June 24. Many of the celebrations of midsummer take place on midsummer eve, when many workplaces are closed and shops must close their doors at noon."01:25
GeneralAntilles /Must/?!01:25
DocScrutinizer05sooooo, did no "letter" arrive at yours today?01:26
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, yes.01:26
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, or else what?01:26
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, you get fined01:26
GeneralAntillesThat's idiotic.01:27
GeneralAntillesEven, say, grocery stores?01:27
DocScrutinizer05that's Europe01:27
GeneralAntillesEurope is idiotic. :P01:27
DocScrutinizer05nothern Eu actually01:27
DocScrutinizer05in Spain I think they never got such laws01:28
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05, nope, the tracking number doesn't seem active on finnish post yet01:28
DocScrutinizer05use the german website!01:28
ShadowJK"Es ist ein Fehler aufgetreten. Der Administator wurde benachrichtigt und wird sich des Problems annehmen."01:29
*** konelix has quit IRC01:30
*** konelix has joined #maemo01:31
DocScrutinizer05well, that "tracking" is useless anyway. Seems to know two events: delivered to postoffice, and delivered to addressee01:31
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, it depends on the size of the store. A small kiosk or corner shop would be able to stay open. They'd probably have shortened hours too though, the staff is probably anxious to take off their clothes and run off into the forest to celebrate with copious amounts of alcohol01:31
DocScrutinizer05nuttin in between the two01:31
*** rm_work has quit IRC01:32
ShadowJKUsually things show up on .fi post website latest when it has arrived in the country, before it's passed on to customs01:32
DocScrutinizer05sounds like you really have fun over there01:32
*** eijk has quit IRC01:32
ShadowJKI think midsummer is one of the top-3 holidays of the year01:32
DocScrutinizer05take off your clothes and run into the forrest with some bottles of Vodka01:33
RaimuIn Finland, take the vodka and run into a lake01:34
*** int_ua has quit IRC01:34
ShadowJKI think the culture of having a house or cabin retreat in a hard to reach place, with hardly any comforts of civilization available, is a bit confusing to outsiders too01:34
*** konelix has quit IRC01:35
ShadowJKLooks like it'll be nice weather, so I bet there'll be about 40 deaths due to breathing water this year :P01:35
*** konelix has joined #maemo01:35
RaimuSome guys had a deadpool going again - to guess the closest amount of drunken drowning Finn deaths.01:35
*** JakDaRippa has joined #maemo01:36
*** chenca has joined #maemo01:36
*** chenca has quit IRC01:36
DocScrutinizer05how many die from getting eaten by mosquitos?01:37
ShadowJKRadio was doing a "tell us the most stupid thing you've done on midsummer while intoxicated" show yesterday. One guy called in and said he passed out on an inflatable matress, woke up surrounded by water in every direction, and eventually the next day drifted ashore in another city01:37
RaimuVery apocalyptic.01:38
* ShadowJK is mosquito hardened now, took 3 weeks01:38
DocScrutinizer05thick varnish of dirt and bodylotion? ;-)01:39
RaimuExposure therapy. :)01:39
ShadowJKZogG_laptop, half of the bites sting a little bit when they happen, after they happened, none leave any lasting itches marks or anything01:39
ShadowJKYeah, exposure therapy..01:39
*** Dibblah has joined #maemo01:40
DocScrutinizer05probably the best thing I could do withj a mossi bite is drill it out. with a 10mm drill. Would result in easily healing little injury, compared to what those bites do to me otherwise01:41
*** konelix has quit IRC01:42
*** lemonade` has joined #maemo01:42
*** konelix has joined #maemo01:43
freemangordonvi_: you have something to say 'bout my statement :P01:43
DocScrutinizer05well, it's raining here, since 30min. Nice! As I can open up the windows now01:43
RaimuDocScrutinizer05: Drill @_@01:44
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: get an umbrella01:44
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, this android download ate all my 8GB RAM for buffers01:44
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: why?01:44
freemangordonjust in case01:44
DocScrutinizer05I'm sitting in my living room and enjoy the fresh mossi-less air01:45
DocScrutinizer05from open window01:45
DocScrutinizer05been a tad *too* hot and hunid the last 3 days01:45
*** Chiku|dc has quit IRC01:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: and I had several Jacks already, I hope I will be forgiven :)01:45
* DocScrutinizer05 waves and heads out, direction bedroom01:46
ZogG_laptopShadowJK: i was in army last week, we slept outside - i hardly could fell asleep as i left mouth outside of sleep bag to breath (it was to hot) and all lips were bitten =(01:52
ShadowJKI was too tired to care about mosquitos when it eventually was time to sleep, and the southern mosquitos felt benign relative to here01:55
ZogG_laptopShadowJK: i was exosted after training too but still it woke me up all 3 nights =(01:57
ZogG_laptopsomeone told me that mosquito can smell for target for kilometrs01:57
ZogG_laptopcan be true but hard to imagine01:57
ShadowJKI once saw a mosquito trying to bite my N810's display frame, right after I had used it01:58
ZogG_laptophe was drinkingpixel02:00
*** konelix has quit IRC02:00
RaimuThe liquid crystals... they're BLOOD02:01
ZogG_laptopmy friend told me if you quick enuf to stretch sking where it bits you get he tramped and it can't stop drinking so it explode of over blood, i need to check it02:01
ZogG_laptopShadowJK: you should take a pictue and write slogan " n810 is more than a compiuter, he is my soulmate" (to compare to person)02:02
*** konelix has joined #maemo02:06
*** konelix has quit IRC02:17
*** trx has quit IRC02:18
*** PeterWolf has joined #maemo02:18
*** trx has joined #maemo02:18
Woody14619Well.. that was fun... But I'm all out of popcorn (and patience for dealing with blowhards...) :)02:21
GeneralAntillesWelcome to the life of a community council member.02:22
*** konelix has joined #maemo02:24
*** zeq_laptop has quit IRC02:25
*** Vanadis has quit IRC02:28
*** Vanadis has joined #maemo02:29
*** konelix has quit IRC02:30
*** timeless_ has joined #maemo02:30
*** timeless has quit IRC02:30
*** timeless_ is now known as timeless02:30
*** timeless has joined #maemo02:30
*** rcg has quit IRC02:39
*** robbiethe1st has joined #maemo02:43
Woody14619Lol... Thanks GA. ;)02:45
*** GuySoft has quit IRC02:48
*** RiD has joined #maemo03:00
*** uen| has joined #maemo03:01
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo03:04
*** Estel_ has quit IRC03:04
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo03:04
RiD'ssup estel.03:04
*** uen has quit IRC03:04
*** Dibblah has quit IRC03:13
*** GuySoft has joined #maemo03:18
*** RiD has quit IRC03:18
*** Vanadis__ has joined #maemo03:19
*** Vanadis has quit IRC03:23
*** RiD has joined #maemo03:29
*** _federico3 has quit IRC03:30
*** jimmy1980 has quit IRC03:34
*** jimmy1980 has joined #maemo03:40
*** eMHa__ has quit IRC03:43
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo03:43
*** xnt14 has quit IRC03:48
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC03:48
*** brzys has quit IRC03:48
*** brzys has joined #maemo03:49
*** NishanthMenon has quit IRC03:50
*** Scorcerer has joined #maemo03:51
*** Scorcere1 has joined #maemo03:52
*** Scorcere2 has joined #maemo03:52
*** Scorcere3 has joined #maemo03:52
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle03:54
*** DrGrov has left #maemo03:54
*** Scorcere4 has joined #maemo04:10
*** RiD has quit IRC04:13
*** brzys has quit IRC04:13
*** brzys has joined #maemo04:13
*** nox- has quit IRC04:16
*** shamus has quit IRC04:27
*** shamus has joined #maemo04:27
*** RiD has joined #maemo04:29
*** RiD has quit IRC04:31
*** RiD has joined #maemo04:32
*** ALoGeNo has quit IRC04:33
*** RiD has quit IRC04:39
*** guampa has quit IRC04:41
*** xev has joined #maemo05:02
*** lemonade` has left #maemo05:03
*** xev has quit IRC05:04
*** brzys has quit IRC05:08
*** brzys has joined #maemo05:09
*** Scorcere5 has joined #maemo05:10
*** HRH_H_Crab has quit IRC05:16
*** mvp_ has quit IRC05:20
*** xev has joined #maemo05:21
*** Ian-- has joined #maemo05:37
*** Ian--- has quit IRC05:38
*** HRH_H_Crab has joined #maemo05:39
*** jonwil has joined #maemo05:48
*** JakDaRippa has quit IRC05:49
*** xev has quit IRC05:54
*** dockane has joined #maemo06:00
*** xev has joined #maemo06:00
*** robbiethe1st has quit IRC06:01
*** dockane_ has quit IRC06:03
*** Scorcere6 has joined #maemo06:10
*** hardaker has quit IRC06:16
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake06:19
*** PeterWolf has quit IRC06:20
*** kerio has joined #maemo06:24
*** Estel_ has quit IRC06:30
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo06:39
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo06:40
*** ALoGeNo has joined #maemo06:40
*** Scorcere7 has joined #maemo07:10
jonwilbah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N90007:19
*** Scorcere8 has joined #maemo08:10
*** chainsawbike has quit IRC08:17
*** chainsawbike has joined #maemo08:18
*** jimmy1980 has quit IRC08:38
*** ferdna has quit IRC08:44
*** ychavan has joined #maemo08:51
*** habmala has joined #maemo08:58
*** eMHa__ has quit IRC09:00
*** Scorcere9 has joined #maemo09:10
*** ychavan has quit IRC09:28
*** khertan has joined #maemo09:38
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo09:38
*** unoobi has joined #maemo09:41
*** ychavan has joined #maemo09:42
*** unoobi has quit IRC09:43
*** psychologe has joined #maemo09:51
*** psychologe has left #maemo09:51
*** psychologe has joined #maemo09:52
*** psychologe has left #maemo09:53
*** murrayc has joined #maemo10:01
*** murrayc_ has joined #maemo10:01
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC10:03
*** ychavan has quit IRC10:03
*** Saviq_ has joined #maemo10:05
*** Saviq_ has quit IRC10:08
*** Scorcer10 has joined #maemo10:10
*** TriztAway is now known as Trizt10:11
*** Atarii has quit IRC10:12
*** rcg has joined #maemo10:13
*** gomiam has joined #maemo10:14
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle10:16
*** chenca has joined #maemo10:21
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo10:22
*** zeq_laptop has joined #maemo10:24
*** utanapischti has quit IRC10:29
*** utanapischti has joined #maemo10:29
*** xmlich02 has quit IRC10:41
*** jrocha has joined #maemo10:41
*** xmlich02 has joined #maemo10:44
*** ychavan has joined #maemo10:51
*** geaaru has joined #maemo10:55
*** lukasz_gut has joined #maemo10:56
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo10:57
*** florian_kc has quit IRC10:57
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo10:57
*** dhbiker has quit IRC11:00
*** jhb has joined #maemo11:01
*** uen| is now known as uen11:02
*** lukasz_gut has quit IRC11:05
*** OkropNick has joined #maemo11:05
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:06
*** Scorcer11 has joined #maemo11:10
zeq_laptopI'm going to have a go at building 4.7-2012.06 for scratchbox if you don't beat me to it11:11
zeq_laptopdid you see I'd built a new hildon-desktop ^^^11:12
freemangordonno way, I won't have much time till monday11:12
freemangordonyeah, saw that :).11:12
zeq_laptopI'll let you know how I get on.  Is the howto on valid for importing toolchains?11:13
*** norayr1 has joined #maemo11:14
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: re. fennec.  a little research has revealed we need to use the h-d API provided by qtmaemo for rotation support11:14
freemangordonyep, I am in the process of implementing it11:15
zeq_laptopcool! :)11:15
zeq_laptopdon't forget vol/zoom :)11:16
freemangordonaaah, lets first finish with the rotation :)11:17
zeq_laptopone thing at a time11:17
*** ychavan has quit IRC11:19
freemangordonzeq_laptop: deffinitely we a need of version control for fennec11:19
freemangordon*we need a11:20
zeq_laptopmozilla uses mercurial11:21
vi_freemangordon: Yes I was highly amused by your comment.  Trollmode level 99.11:25
zeq_laptopI guess we should work from
*** ychavan has joined #maemo11:27
*** arno0ob has joined #maemo11:28
*** skule has quit IRC11:30
freemangordonzeq_laptop: I mean a place we can make commits, so we can share the code changes easily11:30
freemangordonvi_: You call me troll ?!?11:32
* freemangordon creeps ashamed back under the bridge where he lives11:32
StyXmanfreemangordon: what are you planning you two?11:33
freemangordonStyXman: a working and usable fennec for n90011:33
freemangordon(if you mean me and zeq_laptop)11:33
freemangordonso far it is working, but not easy to use as the screen is rotated ny 90 degrees :D11:34
StyXmanok, tx11:34
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I get that.  I suppose we don't need the full history, just a public hosted git repo would do.11:36
zeq_laptopI have an account on github11:37
zeq_laptopStyXman: the officially supported fennec widgets are Android and qt.  The gtk widget has been left to bit-rot, that's why we've not had an official fennec build since v7. The Maemo5 support code was only in the gtk widget, the qt widget does have Maemo6 and MeeGo support code however.11:40
*** MrPingu has joined #maemo11:41
freemangordonyep, unfortunately i have an account on gitorious. Let the battle begin :D11:41
freemangordonzeq_laptop: on the other hand we could setup an account on garage11:42
zeq_laptopI need to register on them anyway...11:42
*** norayr1 has quit IRC11:42
zeq_laptopWould it be possible to still track upstream mozilla mercurial?11:43
zeq_laptop(as a remote)11:44
zeq_laptopwould make it much easier if we decide to get our changes upstreamed11:44
freemangordonzeq_laptop: NFC, most prolly not. I don't know if git could fetch remote mercurial branches11:45
*** DocScrutinizer05 has quit IRC11:45
freemangordonzeq_laptop: If you want to make those upstreamed, I am all for it11:45
freemangordonbut don't expect me to be of any use but coding, i really don't have the nerves/diplomacy needed to argue on mozilla bug tracker11:47
zeq_laptopI know what you mean...11:48
freemangordonok, fennec .deb with maemo5 changes ready, lets check if those work11:49
zeq_laptoplet me at em :)11:49
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC11:51
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo11:52
zeq_laptopMaybe we need to talk to Romaxa11:55
StyXmanwell, for git/hg interaction there's fastexport/import, but it's a PITA. you could also check Joey Hess' mr, but I barely know that it exists11:57
zeq_laptopthere's also git-hg, but I've no experience with it11:57
freemangordonhmm, rotation work as it should, but fennec does not resize when in portrait, lemme check12:04
*** zap_ has joined #maemo12:07
*** lukasz_gut has joined #maemo12:07
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: just registered on garage12:09
*** Scorcer12 has joined #maemo12:10
freemangordonzeq_laptop: great. now we can start a new project and upload the source there12:10
*** Corsac has quit IRC12:12
*** Corsac has joined #maemo12:12
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: we should make sure we turn off the official branding before we make this public, unless/until we get it upstreamed.12:15
*** norayr1 has joined #maemo12:17
*** trx has quit IRC12:17
freemangordonI'll remember that12:17
zeq_laptopofficial fennec/qt for Maemo5 bug:
povbotBug 566448: was not found.12:22
*** cehteh has quit IRC12:27
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo12:28
*** chenca has quit IRC12:29
*** norayr1 has quit IRC12:34
*** int_ua has joined #maemo12:34
Hurrianfreemangordon, newer firefox builds for Maemo?12:35
mgedminoh silly povbot, haven't I taught you to ignore bugillas other than
mgedminapparently not12:36
Lava_Croftpoor povbot is doing the best job it can do!12:36
* Lava_Croft pats povbot on the shoulder12:36
*** Gh0sty has quit IRC12:37
*** calvaris has joined #maemo12:37
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: shall I just re-use fennec as the project "Unix Name"?12:39
zeq_laptopi see "Cannot match the unix name of any other project", so I thought I'd check :)12:40
Lava_Croftzeq_laptop: isnt 'fennec' what they use for firefox mobile12:40
zeq_laptopyes, we're porting Fennec/Qt to fremantle12:41
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo12:41
zeq_laptopit's the version used on Harm/MeeGo, but currently lacks h-d support etc12:42
zeq_laptopsee backscroll12:42
Lava_Croftyes, i was kind affirming your idea12:42
teotwakiLava_Croft: /nick Lava_Cruft would be funny :)12:43
Lava_Croftbut that would ruin the nice story attached to this nickname!12:43
freemangordonzeq_laptop: it is fennec after all, if someone complains I think we can change the name12:43
Lava_Crofta story of puberty, potsmoking and quakeworld12:43
zeq_laptopI just wanted to check using "fennec" on Garage was okay12:43
freemangordoni think it is12:43
freemangordonwho cares after all, mozilla?12:44
zeq_laptopokay, submitted12:44
Lava_Croftmozilla is a tainted brand for a browser anyway, makes me think of slow, fat browsers12:44
freemangordonok, almost there, rotation is 80% functional :D12:45
zeq_laptop80%? Off by a few degrees? ;)12:45
freemangordonnah, the resize still not working ok12:47
*** |thunder has quit IRC12:48
*** lukasz_gut has quit IRC12:49
*** lukasz_gut has joined #maemo12:52
*** Gh0sty has joined #maemo12:54
zeq_laptophow long does garage registation usually take?12:57
freemangordonless than 24 hours12:58
*** lukasz_gut has quit IRC12:58
*** HtheB has joined #maemo13:00
*** lucas_gut has joined #maemo13:03
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I'm going to give that linaro toolchain build a go, any tips?13:03
*** wmarone_ has joined #maemo13:05
*** wmarone has quit IRC13:05
freemangordonhmm, not any I can think of. lets face a real problem, maybe then i will remember something13:05
freemangordonzeq_laptop: you will try to build it inside SB?13:06
*** dos1 has joined #maemo13:06
*** hazchemix has quit IRC13:07
vi_If rotation is now 80% functional does that mean it now rotates to within 18 degrees of useable?13:07
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: tbh I don't know where to begin... do I just build a cross-toolchain?13:08
zeq_laptopgcc -v output on the gcc-4.6 we're using:13:09
zeq_laptopConfigured with: /home/jhakala/cs2007q3-sb7/arm/src/gcc-4.2/configure --build=i686-pc-linux-gnu --host=i686-pc-linux-gnu --target=arm-none-linux-gnueabi --enable-threads --disable-libmudflap --disable-libssp --disable-libgomp --disable-libstdcxx-pch --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld --enable-languages=c,c++ --enable-shared --enable-symvers=gnu --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-nls --prefix=/opt/maemo --with-sysroot=/opt/maemo/a13:09
* StyXman sees --host --target, remembers and shudders13:09
*** Scorcer13 has joined #maemo13:10
zeq_laptopI've quite a bit of experience build cross-compilers so that doesn't worry me in itself13:10
*** hazchemix has joined #maemo13:12
*** LaoLang_cool has joined #maemo13:12
*** povbot has joined #maemo13:19
freemangordonzeq_laptop: check your current target13:19
*** OkropNick^ has joined #maemo13:19
* zeq_laptop feels embarrased13:19
zeq_laptopyes, that's what I have :)13:20
zeq_laptopI used /scratchbox/compilers/.../gcc -v from outside scratchbox13:21
* freemangordon wonders what "that" is13:21
zeq_laptopwhen I run gcc -v from within scratchbox I get the same output as you do :)13:21
freemangordonaah, ok13:21
*** ArkanoiD_ has quit IRC13:21
freemangordonnice :)13:21
freemangordonbtw is that debianized?13:22
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo13:22
zeq_laptopso I should build from within scratchbox?13:23
freemangordonI don't think you'll be able13:23
zeq_laptopI didn't think I would13:23
freemangordonI built it from outside13:23
*** ivgalvez has joined #maemo13:24
zeq_laptopI'm on x86_64, I probably should make it for i686 ...13:24
zeq_laptopcanadian cross13:24
*** trx has joined #maemo13:26
freemangordonzeq_laptop: yeah13:28
freemangordondon't do it 64bit, won't work in wmware images AFAIK13:29
teotwaki64-bit doesn't work in vmware?13:29
freemangordonteotwaki: vmware SB images prepared by Nokia are 32bit13:30
LaoLang_coolI installed gcc-4.6 and want to compile the simplest hello.c, but gcc says there isn't stdio.h13:32
LaoLang_coolhow to solve it?13:32
zeq_laptopLaoLang_cool: how did you install gcc-4.613:33
SpeedEvilmain(){puts("hello world");}13:34
freemangordonsome TMO member(Aapo?) uploaded it in extras-devel13:34
LaoLang_coolzeq_laptop, apt-get install gcc-4.613:34
freemangordonbut it is 4.6.1 AFAIK13:34
LaoLang_coolSpeedEvil, gcc-4.6: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory13:36
freemangordonLaoLang_cool: binutils?13:36
SpeedEvilCopy the entire root filesystem to a subdirectory.13:36
SpeedEvil(one not on the rootfs)13:36
SpeedEvilchroot into that, install the 'tools' repo, and do apt-get build-essentials13:37
SpeedEvilthat way you don't fill up your /13:37
LaoLang_coolIf I use tcc to compile, it says: tcc: file '/usr/lib/crtl.o' not found13:37
LaoLang_coolunderfined symbol 'puts'13:37
*** HtheB has quit IRC13:38
*** NGNUton-BC has joined #maemo13:42
*** GNUton-BNC has quit IRC13:45
LaoLang_coolfreemangordon, will install it13:46
LaoLang_coolHow to keep a pkg from apt-get upgrade?13:46
*** fuz_ has quit IRC13:47
LaoLang_coolfreemangordon, now it says: /usr/bin/ld: this linker was not configured to use sysroots13:48
LaoLang_coolcollect2: ld returned 1 exit status13:49
LaoLang_cooltcc still outputs the same error13:49
*** wmarone_ has quit IRC13:51
*** wmarone__ has joined #maemo13:51
*** ivgalvez_ has joined #maemo13:54
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: what's your username on garage?13:54
zeq_laptopI'll add you as admin13:55
*** ivgalvez has quit IRC13:56
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo14:05
*** maybeArgh has joined #maemo14:07
*** maybeWTF has quit IRC14:09
zeq_laptoptoolchain build is underway, fingers crossed14:09
* zeq_laptop wanders off14:09
*** jonne has quit IRC14:10
*** Scorcer14 has joined #maemo14:10
*** rcg has joined #maemo14:10
*** dhbiker has quit IRC14:10
*** d1b has quit IRC14:14
*** Dibblah has joined #maemo14:16
*** jonne has joined #maemo14:22
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo14:25
*** xnt14 has joined #maemo14:26
*** ivgalvez has joined #maemo14:27
*** zeq has joined #maemo14:27
*** ivgalvez_ has quit IRC14:27
*** jrocha has quit IRC14:32
*** MrPingu has quit IRC14:33
*** LaoLang_coo_ has joined #maemo14:49
*** Hurrian has quit IRC14:49
*** jpinx has left #maemo14:49
freemangordonzeq_laptop: freemangordon :D14:50
*** LaoLang_cool has quit IRC14:53
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo14:53
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC14:54
*** MohammadAG has joined #maemo14:54
*** ychavan has quit IRC14:55
*** lizardo has joined #maemo14:57
*** Sicelo has quit IRC14:57
*** d1b has joined #maemo14:57
*** MrPingu has joined #maemo15:00
*** ivgalvez has quit IRC15:03
*** norayr1 has joined #maemo15:05
*** ivgalvez has joined #maemo15:05
vi_who could have guessed a community awards competition could foster so much butthurt and rage?15:06
freemangordonvi_: well, I see only 2 trolling there (3 if you count me :P )15:07
freemangordonthe others look like they are ok with what was decided15:07
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo15:09
*** Sicelo has quit IRC15:09
*** Sicelo has joined #maemo15:09
*** Scorcer15 has joined #maemo15:10
vi_Or kojacker.15:11
vi_He is normally a cool guy.15:11
vi_However I don't take being antagonised easily.15:11
vi_I wish there was a word in the English language for describing the manner that a person takes when on the surface they would appear to be acting overtly kind however with a little analysis their words can be seen to be an antagonistic wall of fuck.15:13
*** lizardo has quit IRC15:14
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: done :)15:14
*** willer_ has quit IRC15:15
freemangordonvi_: if you want to make him (and trolls) mad, just post a reference to qgil's statement that those devices will be owned by us, along with all taxes will be paid by Nokia. :D:D:D15:16
freemangordonzeq_laptop: thanks15:16
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I'll pull in mozilla-central with git-hg and push it to garage, or would it be too big?15:16
MrPinguReally that CA thread is crazy!15:16
freemangordonzeq_laptop: NFC, but there should be plenty of space on garage15:17
freemangordonMrPingu: it is not the thread by itself ;)15:17
zeq_laptopI'd like to do it that way if we can get away with it...15:17
freemangordonzeq_laptop: would you rephrase, i missed the point15:18
zeq_laptopI'm thinking about "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes15:19
infobotzeq_laptop meant: I'm thinking abour "cloning" mozilla from mercurial then creating a git branch with out changes15:19
zeq_laptop^ ?15:20
freemangordonseems reasonable15:20
zeq_laptopmy regex went a bit wrong there :P15:21
ivgalvezto me, only two people argueing sounds a success (at least on TMO)15:22
freemangordonyeah, similar to my statement from several weeks ago "damn, this is simple, just some 500 lies of code" :D:D:D15:22
*** chenca has joined #maemo15:24
MrPinguvi_, do idea #1 :D15:24
*** murrayc has quit IRC15:24
vi_MrPingu: heh.15:25
*** croppa has quit IRC15:25
ivgalvezidea #2 could be fun, but you should upload a video for confirmation15:25
vi_"blow the money on being blown by..."15:25
teotwakivi_: sarcastic hypocrite15:25
freemangordondamn fennec build finallt ended, lets see the result15:26
vi_teotwaki: are you calling me this or suggesting it as the word(s) I was looking for?15:26
teotwakivi_: That's for me to know and for you find out.15:26
teotwakiActually, closer to the second option :)15:27
chem|stWoody14619: never ever respond to abill pls15:27
vi_chem|st: why you have not banned that guy yet?15:27
ivgalvezwho wants to respond to abill15:27
teotwakivi_: because, he's been banned a number of times15:28
freemangordonchem|st: aah, all of the fun n TMO will be gone then15:28
teotwakiWe even banned him back in the day I was a forum mod15:28
vi_ivgalvez: everytime I do I get a nice mail from reggie.15:28
teotwakichem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from answering to Abill</p";15:29
infobotteotwaki meant: chem|st: hack the forum source code, if (/quote.*abill/gi) $_errors = "<p>Please refrain from replying to Abill</p";15:30
*** FIQ has quit IRC15:30
freemangordonteotwaki: LOL15:31
*** valdyn has quit IRC15:33
*** gomiam has quit IRC15:33
*** etrunko has joined #maemo15:35
*** FIQ has joined #maemo15:38
*** valdyn has joined #maemo15:39
*** tearms has quit IRC15:40
chem|stWoody14619: and you should stop defending something you did not agree with in the firstplace o.O15:44
chem|stvi_: 1st warning then banning, for some reason he just popped up again...15:45
*** Macer has quit IRC15:46
*** chenca has quit IRC15:48
*** dhbiker has quit IRC15:52
vi_chem|st: Just permaban his troll ass.15:54
chem|stteotwaki: nice idea but I wont15:54
vi_He is currently demanding that the council is diisolved and re-elected after the CA 'scandal'.15:55
vi_teotwaki: You do not read TMO do you?15:55
vi_There is a thread about the CA.15:55
vi_There is a lot of raeg and butthurt.15:55
teotwakivi_: I left the mod team because I didn't have time, you think if I had the time to read I didn't have the time to moderate?15:56
teotwakihow come?15:56
teotwakiBecause some losers didn't get their sparky device?15:56
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo15:56
vi_Because most of the maemo council won a device in the CA.15:56
teotwakiOh really? That's cute.15:56
zeq_laptopis there anything special I need to do to git over ssh working on garage?15:57
teotwakiI would've only applied if GeneralAntilles, MohammadAG and Jaffa were on the council, that way I would've been sure not to get one.15:57
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #maemo15:57
*** hardaker has joined #maemo15:57
teotwakivi_: cute, yet predictable...15:58
vi_The first thing the ministers of the scottish parliment voted on was...15:58
vi_...a pay rise.15:58
vi_Although it does seem unfair if the council members could not enter for a CA.15:59
teotwakiThe first thing Sarkozy did was cheat on his wife, knowing that as the president, nobody could sue him.15:59
teotwaki(and divorce is included in "sue")15:59
vi_teotwaki: is she the hot one?15:59
teotwakino, that's the one he cheated with.15:59
vi_classy guy.15:59
teotwakiCan't blame him though, 10 years, datass.16:00
teotwakis/years/years ago/16:00
infobotteotwaki meant: Can't blame him though, 10 years ago, datass.16:00
MohammadAGyay, segfault16:00
*** Neutron__ has joined #maemo16:00
teotwakiwho wouldn't...*2LXLn65qYf4S8OKA5Ykx2vXkY6NzKWh8pSb-m3Jiy72cCPY5O/CarlaBruni4.jpg16:01
*** DocScrutinizer2 has quit IRC16:01
Neutron__when you transfer files or tether your N900s over bluetooth, what kind of speeds do you usually get?16:01
teotwakiMohammadAG: it's on line 42116:01
teotwakiNeutron__: 120KB/s16:01
MohammadAGyeah, even her hair's wet16:01
Neutron__and your computer has a bluetooth 2.1 EDR dongle?16:02
Neutron__(or built in, whatever)16:02
MohammadAGProgram received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.16:02
MohammadAG0x440d8390 in MWidgetController::model() const ()16:02
MohammadAG   from /usr/lib/
jonwilbah, I am still no closer to figuring out what to do about my broken N900 :(16:02
vi_jonwil: WHAT IS WRONG WITH IT?16:03
vi_oops, caps.16:03
*** ivgalvez has quit IRC16:03
teotwakiNeutron__: in any case, the 2.1 max speed is 260KB/s, isn't it?16:04
Neutron__it is said to be 3Mbit, which is 384KB/s16:04
* teotwaki has kicked vi_ ("CAPS")16:04
Neutron__while 2.0 is 2.1Mbit, about 260KB/s16:04
jonwilThats my post where I explain whats wrong16:04
teotwakiNeutron__: actually, I think both have a theoretical limit of 3MBit, but both only achieve 2 Mbits tops.16:05
zeq_laptopI've entered my ssh public key ( onto my garage account, but cloning the repo fails with "Permission denied (publickey)"...???16:05
teotwakizeq: what happens if you just SSH into it?16:05
Neutron__well, I get around 50-60KB/s when tethering with a ~5 year old laptop.. I can't find any way to figure out which version of bluetooth that laptop has16:05
teotwakizeq: ssh -vvv user@host16:05
MohammadAGoh f me, I didn't init the pointer :/16:07
jonwilso can anyone suggest what I should do about my phone?16:08
jonwilI dont want to take it to Nokia Care who may not have the bits and even if they do will probably need to send it away for repairs16:08
jonwilI have seen a site that is selling the parts I need and cheap too16:09
chem|st~seen ivgalvez16:09
infobotivgalvez <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 42m 9s ago, saying: 'who wants to respond to abill'.16:10
*** Scorcer16 has joined #maemo16:10
jonwilbut I have no way to know if these parts are legit or not16:10
zeq_laptopteotwaki: I get lots of debug output, not sure what exactly I'm looking for16:10
teotwakizeq_laptop: basically, check for the part where it talks about public key auth, and see if your key is being used at all16:10
zeq_laptopit seems to be16:11
teotwakiSo it's the server refusing your key?16:11
zeq_laptopshall I upload the output to pastebin?16:12
*** SmilyOrg has joined #maemo16:12
*** norayr1 has quit IRC16:13
*** vblazquez has quit IRC16:15
*** norayr1 has joined #maemo16:16
*** Smily has quit IRC16:16
teotwakino diea16:17
teotwakieverything looks legit16:17
jonwilLooks like I should avoid the crappy repair places in the major shopping centers and hit up some PROPER repair shops :)16:17
zeq_laptopmaybe I entered the key incorrectly on garage?16:17
zeq_laptopI used "xclip -sel clip < ~/.ssh/", then pasted into the textbox16:18
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake16:19
chem|stWoody14619: would you mind to talk to quim again and ask him if he got 5 n950 loaners for the council so we can close that?16:20
*** HtheB has joined #maemo16:20
teotwakiIsn't that going to eat out of the Qt-assigned ones?16:21
*** vblazquez has joined #maemo16:21
chem|stno additional council-only loaners which need be given to next council16:21
freemangordonzeq_laptop: I remember some note when you're clonning from the garage that you should yse SSL_NO_VERIFY or something16:22
* chem|st grabs popcorn16:22
freemangordonzeq_laptop: If you experience problems with 'git clone' or 'git push' please try first to set the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY environment variable to 1 (e.g. type export GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY=1 in a terminal on Linux using bash).16:24
zeq_laptopok freemangordon, I'll try it16:25
zeq_laptopthat doesn't apply to ssh afaik16:26
freemangordonthere is also a note: Git access via SSH is under development. :D16:26
zeq_laptopI just read it takes 15 mins to update16:26
freemangordonaah, ok16:26
zeq_laptopmaybe that's it16:26
zeq_laptopunder development for two years ;)16:26
freemangordonwell, thats a complicated stuff, takes time :P16:27
*** cuppsy has quit IRC16:30
*** Macer has joined #maemo16:34
*** peetah has quit IRC16:35
*** dhbiker_ has joined #maemo16:35
*** florian has quit IRC16:35
*** dhbiker_ has quit IRC16:35
*** peetah has joined #maemo16:36
*** dhbiker has quit IRC16:36
*** cuppsy has joined #maemo16:37
*** snoopy_ has joined #maemo16:40
*** jhb has quit IRC16:46
*** Chiku|dc has joined #maemo16:50
*** lxp has joined #maemo16:52
*** lucas_gut has quit IRC16:54
*** lxp1 has quit IRC16:55
freemangordonzeq_laptop: i've just uploaded my rublic key in garage, have no problem with ssh git clone16:55
freemangordonunfortunately fennec repo is empty :D16:56
*** eijk has joined #maemo16:59
vi__jonwil: ping17:01
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo17:03
freemangordonjonwil: while you're here - you are aware your applet is now a part of CSSU-T?17:04
jonwilnice one17:04
freemangordon*are you17:04
jonwilno I wasnt aware of it but that's cool17:05
jonwilcool that its now in an "official" CSSU release :)17:05
freemangordonyeah, but we need you17:05
freemangordonas it caused a lot of talk @ TMO17:05
jonwilget me a link to whatever this talk is17:05
freemangordonlets switch to #maemo-ssu17:06
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I must be doing something wrong then :(17:08
*** zeq_laptop has quit IRC17:08
*** Scorcer17 has joined #maemo17:10
*** steve__ has joined #maemo17:10
ViltzuIs there easy way to install gcc-4.4 or newer to maemo? :)17:10
*** steve__ is now known as zeq_laptop17:10
Viltzuhmm to scratchbox I mean.17:10
*** dos1 has quit IRC17:11
*** dos1 has joined #maemo17:11
*** lofty306 has joined #maemo17:11
vi__jonwil: The metal bezel around the screen is an absolute bitch to replace.17:12
*** psychologe has joined #maemo17:12
vi__If they get bent they never sit on right again.17:12
vi__Thus, getting one that is not bent is neigh near impossibru.17:13
*** dhbiker has quit IRC17:13
*** dos1 has quit IRC17:13
vi__Depending on what country you live in, you MAY be able to convince your local Nokia service centre to get the parts in for the repair but just let you do it.17:13
vi__They say they are not allowed but you may be able to convince them.17:14
jonwilvi__, I found a few sites that have the needed parts for sale17:14
jonwilfew online sites17:14
jonwilI also intend to visit some proper phone repair places (not the shitty ones in the shopping centers) tommorow to see what they have to say17:14
vi__In my experiance getting parts online can lead to receiving shitty knockoffs.17:15
jonwilwell I intend to visit or call these places and see what they can do17:15
vi__Fortunatley I have a local Nokia care centre that I have kind of built up a rapport with.17:16
jonwilsee whether any of em say they can fix it and if so what it would cost17:16
vi__jonwil: DANGER!17:16
jonwildanger what?17:16
freemangordonto get an N8 as a replacement ;)17:16
vi__I would'nt let any of those hamfisted chimps near my precious n900 unless you want either:17:17
vi__1.stripped screws and knockoff parts17:17
vi__2. an N8.17:17
jonwilwell one of the shops I will be calling did a keypad replacement on my previous phone (a Motorola Z6) and did a damn good job of it17:17
vi__jonwil: fair enough.17:18
jonwilSome of em do warranty repairs for various brands (not Nokia) so presumably they must be good17:18
jonwilor else they wouldn't be trusted by makers like Motorola to do warranty repairs17:19
jonwilbut yeah I wouldn't use anyone that looked dodgy17:19
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: she it matter if my username differs between my local user and garage? I have .ssh/config setup as described.17:21
*** wmarone__ has quit IRC17:21
*** psychologe has quit IRC17:21
*** cpt_nemo has quit IRC17:22
*** dm8tbr has quit IRC17:23
Viltzuvi__, they don't give N8s anymore17:24
Viltzuvi__, atleast two of my friends when they sent N900 to repair they got back E7.17:24
jonwilI doubt Nokia would give me an N8 or an E7 or any other phone if I sent my phone in for a non-warranty repair of a N900 with a busted front bezel17:24
Viltzuwell that might be true :P17:25
vi__I got my local nokia store to get me a new kboard for my n900.17:25
vi__I went to pick it up and they were like, just give us the phone and we will fit it.17:26
vi__I take one look at the 'engineer' wearing fully sythetic clothes, sitting at there 'ESD zone' bench without a wriststrap and was  like.17:27
vi__'nah, I will do it my self'17:27
vi__We then had a short discussion about how it was against policy.17:27
vi__Now they get some parts for me+charge labour time but let me have the bits.17:28
vi__It is kinda bull, however at least I know I am getting decent quality parts unlike that piece of shit N900 kboard you can get on ebay.17:28
vi__Viltzu: that is good.  E7 can be sold for more money!17:29
Viltzuvi__, I know. I actually sent my N900 to repair. I had in my mind that I would sell the E7 and buy used N900 again and keep the extra money.17:30
*** LaoLang_coo_ has quit IRC17:30
*** Hurrian has joined #maemo17:30
*** guampa has joined #maemo17:30
*** wmarone has joined #maemo17:30
ViltzuBut, I got my N900 back. ;u17:30
*** florian has joined #maemo17:31
jonwilI know from the Nokia service manual exactly which parts need replacement so if someone tries to tell me "the whole screen assembly has to be replaced", I will know they are probably BSing me17:32
*** FIQ has quit IRC17:32
Macerjonwil: yeah. that is what sucks about repair places17:32
Macerthey are big bullshitters so they can make a few extra bucks17:33
Macerbut i suppose that is everybody huh?17:33
Maceryou don't pay for the work.. you pay for the knowledge.. since most people are ignorant as to the ease of repair.... they just pay17:33
*** luke-jr has quit IRC17:34
*** luke-jr has joined #maemo17:35
jonwilin my case I know exactly what parts are needed and what work needs doing, what I am paying for is someone who can get quality parts and who has the specialist tools and skills to open up the phone and repair it without damaging it17:38
jonwildamaging it further that is17:38
*** lizardo has joined #maemo17:38
*** willer_ has joined #maemo17:39
*** lofty306 has quit IRC17:39
*** konelix has joined #maemo17:39
vi__There is a compelling reason to sell your new N950.17:42
*** int_ua has quit IRC17:43
Hurrianwhoa, these things go fast17:44
vi__Sell 5 N950s17:45
vi__Enough funding for internettablettalk for the next 5 years.17:45
MohammadAGit's kind of a dick move tbh17:47
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle17:47
MohammadAGyou don't want it you send it to some other dev, not ebay17:48
HurrianMohammadAG, it is a dick move, but it sure as hell is easy money17:48
MohammadAGhe's a nokia employee though17:48
MohammadAGHurrian, I kinda need money but I'm not selling any of the DDPs I have17:48
Macera disgruntled nokia employee heh17:48
MacerMohammadAG: tbh he probably wants to ebay them to show people how awesome the n950 was17:49
HurrianMacer, I heard it's not that cool as a phone17:49
Macerkeeping it within the dev circle doesn't show the general population what nokia screwed them out of ;)17:49
*** beford has joined #maemo17:49
MacerHurrian: a phone is just for talking ;)17:49
MohammadAGThe N9 is kinda sexier :P17:49
Maceri'm sure it does well as a computer in a pocket tho17:50
Macerit has xterm17:50
Macerthat makes it superior17:50
Hurrianmeh, I'll probably just grab a BT keyboard when my N9 arrives17:50
Maceri mean really.. as a PHONE.. what does it need? the ability to talk and txt and mms i suppose17:50
MohammadAGor just get an iPhone17:50
MacerMohammadAG: i did.. it's called a lumia 900 heh17:51
Macerthe microsoft iphone17:51
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo17:51
MohammadAGthe iPhone is more capable than the Lumia17:51
Maceri use my n900 every now and then17:51
MohammadAGplus it's kinda... supported17:51
MacerMohammadAG: yeah.. it probably does cool things like... properly use wifi17:51
*** florian has quit IRC17:51
MohammadAGno, it just doesn't suck :P17:51
MohammadAGLumias are the new 331017:52
Macernokia wants me to send my phone in because their software is only using the att dns when it swaps back to wifi17:52
Macerso now i have to rma the phone17:52
Macerjust to get a new one back17:52
Macerthat has the same problem17:52
MohammadAGseriously, dump the Lumia and get an iPhone17:52
Macerit's probably some lame C# script17:52
MohammadAGI for one stayed with Nokia not because they're Nokia17:52
Macerthat doesn't refresh the dns17:52
MohammadAGthe moment they announced the Lumia I started considering other things17:52
Macerplus there is no way to manually set wifi settings17:52
MohammadAGthat's why I have an iPhone17:52
Maceryou HAVE to use dhcp17:52
MohammadAGI haven't left Harmattan cause I like it, not because it's Nokia17:53
Maceri wouldn't mind an e7 still17:53
HurrianMacer, aside from the UI, WP7 blows17:53
MohammadAG+1, Metro's about the only good thing17:53
MacerHurrian: what else is there on a wp phone? ;)17:53
*** calvaris has quit IRC17:53
Macerhonestly other than the wifi issue.. it works great17:53
MohammadAGI even paid the 99$/yr for Apple's dev program17:53
Maceri have an ssh client and a gtalk client .. i'm done ;)17:53
MohammadAGwonder how good the app store sells17:53
HurrianMohammadAG, put up a semi-decent app for $1.9917:54
Viltzudeb squeeze main17:54
Viltzuapt-get update17:54
MacerMohammadAG: well they had a good showing as far as sales17:54
Hurrianyour dev sub will fund itself17:54
Macereven more so that they are selling them for $50 :-P17:54
ViltzuThe package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened17:54
MohammadAGHurrian, I already have a semi decent app17:54
Macermine was pretty much free17:54
MohammadAGnot sure it's useful for everyone, it's useful for me at least17:54
Macerthey actually... PAID ME to buy it haha17:54
Viltzuin Scratchbox17:54
HurrianViltzu, fakeroot apt-get update17:54
Maceryou got $100 off your first bill.. .and $100 in free accessories17:54
ViltzuI'm root.17:55
Macerand the phone was $100 :)17:55
Hurrianoh wait, why are you using squeeze repos?17:55
Maceratt must be paying an arm and leg to sell these. they want their next iphone17:55
ViltzuThere is packages what I need :)17:55
ViltzuAnd I'm pretty sure that repo worked in N90017:55
Viltzubut not working in scratchbox...17:55
MohammadAGIt shows facebook checkin locations on a map17:55
MohammadAGfor stuff that isn't on a map, it's useful17:55
MohammadAGor just use it to stalk people who checkin at their homes17:56
*** Arkenoi has quit IRC17:56
ViltzuHurrian, to be more specific, I need gcc 4.4 or newer.17:56
HurrianMohammadAG, that's nice - the facebook app for mobile is only semi-done17:56
MohammadAGI was planning foursquare too, but I got bored with using VM17:56
MohammadAGand a Mac is 15000 NIS17:56
MohammadAGabout $400017:57
ViltzuOh wait hmm...17:57
*** zeq_laptop has quit IRC17:57
HurrianMohammadAG, hackintosh does wonders17:57
MohammadAGHurrian, I only have 500GBs17:57
Hurrianit boots fine from a 16GB USB stick17:57
Hurrianinstall macfuse/tuxera-ntfs and you're set17:57
MohammadAGI cba to use sticks17:57
MohammadAGthinking of getting a 1TB drive17:58
Hurrianmeh, it's how I ran it until I got off my ass and repartitioned my drives to GPT17:58
*** ced117 has joined #maemo17:58
*** ced117 has quit IRC17:58
*** ced117 has joined #maemo17:58
befordwith a bootloader like chameleon no GPT is needed afaik17:58
MohammadAGafaik you just need a GUID (?) partition table17:59
MohammadAGwhich seems to be the norm now17:59
MohammadAGor not, msdos partition table17:59
Hurrianinteresting, i'll go clone ML to a USB HDD later.17:59
HurrianMohammadAG, dealing with OS X in a VM is a PITA18:00
Hurriansoftware transitions are terrible18:00
MohammadAGI usually don't condone piracy but Macs are an exception18:02
MohammadAGthere seems to be a modified copy that allows MBR installations18:02
*** zeq_laptop has joined #maemo18:03
befordwin a mac on a contest, problem solved18:03
HurrianMohammadAG, it's simply an OSInstall.mpkg patch18:04
Hurrianalso, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon18:05
Hurriananyways, I have a whole drive for OS X, so I just let it do it's GPT thing.18:05
MohammadAG<Hurrian> also, not installing from vanilla source is looked down upon18:05
MohammadAGfrom who?18:05
MohammadAGHurrian, I'm at uni, so I can only use a laptop18:05
MohammadAGotherwise I would've bought a mac mini18:05
*** rm_work has joined #maemo18:06
*** rm_work has quit IRC18:06
*** rm_work has joined #maemo18:06
HurrianMohammadAG, it's a thing in the hackintosh community that installing from untouched ISO is preferred18:07
*** guampa has quit IRC18:09
*** Scorcer18 has joined #maemo18:10
*** Hurrian is now known as Hurrian|asleep18:15
*** eMHa__ has quit IRC18:16
*** norayr1 has quit IRC18:17
*** MrPingu has quit IRC18:17
*** calvaris has joined #maemo18:25
teotwakiWhat's you guys' take on the EUFI secure boot thingie?18:27
*** NishanthMenon has joined #maemo18:35
*** kimitake_idle is now known as kimitake18:41
*** shadeslayer has joined #maemo18:45
*** zap_ has quit IRC18:46
*** guampa has joined #maemo18:46
*** cpt_nemo has joined #maemo18:55
*** dm8tbr has joined #maemo18:56
*** FIQ has joined #maemo18:56
hiemanshuteotwaki: Fedora found a way to get the OS working with secure boot, other distro should too18:58
teotwakitheir way was to buy the right from Microsoft18:58
teotwakinot really "a way"18:58
* zeq_laptop just finished an emergency remote server rescue for a client, nice to get some paid work :)19:03
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo19:05
befordsecure boot can be disabled afaik19:05
befordif you are able to change boot order to install linux I suppose you can disable that19:05
teotwakibeford: you won't be able to disable it on ARM platforms19:07
befordoh right arm is locked, i was thinking about x8619:07
zeq_laptopsuch a wonderful technology19:09
freemangordonzeq_laptop: yeah, FOSS is a good think, unfortunately can't be eaten19:10
*** Scorcer19 has joined #maemo19:10
*** geaaru has quit IRC19:11
hiemanshuteotwaki: nope, it was from verisign, microsoft gets no money from that, and well $99 isnt too much19:11
teotwakihiemanshu: whether it's verisign or microsoft doesn't really matter now, does it?19:12
*** paroneayea has quit IRC19:12
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: not actually sure how much to charge, it without any notice, needed the servers back up ASAP.19:12
freemangordonzeq_laptop: you're a freelancer?19:13
zeq_laptopshould have taken the time to negotiate rate first :P19:13
*** paroneayea has joined #maemo19:13
befordnot sure how microsoft gets away with that19:13
*** aloril has quit IRC19:13
JaffaWoody14619: Interesting log from last week's council meeting19:14
GeneralAntillesteotwaki, we'd have voted to mail you a bag of rusty nails instead. :P19:21
*** githogori has quit IRC19:23
JaffaGeneralAntilles: BTW, copied over the stub issue to for any partial enrichment over the next few days. And thanks again for your efforts whilst I was away19:24
GeneralAntillesAh, good, Sunday evenings just aren't a high-productivity time for me.19:25
GeneralAntillesAnd no problem. You deserve a vacation more than most. ;)19:26
*** aloril has joined #maemo19:28
*** FireFly has quit IRC19:31
*** FireFly has joined #maemo19:32
*** florian has joined #maemo19:36
* DocScrutinizer51 wonders if ShadowJK already is swimming drowned in a lake, naked and intoxicated19:37
ShadowJKnot quite19:37
DocScrutinizer51so I'll try to do some of the duties on your behalf now ;-P19:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Feel free to copy it over yourself if you get bored during the week and have some time. No reason we should be rushing around at weekends ;-)19:39
GeneralAntillesJaffa, did you get my email from last week?19:39
DocScrutinizer51at least the alcohol elimination I'm going to try and help19:40
*** zeq has quit IRC19:41
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: I gather no parcel service today?19:42
freemangordonWhat am I supposed to do with guys like that one ?!?19:42
*** zeq has joined #maemo19:42
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: I think the garage ssh problem I'm having is with my ssh config.  Just tried it on my server, it worked fine!19:42
GeneralAntillesfreemangordon, mail him a notarized apology letter?19:43
freemangordonzeq_laptop: yeah, same here19:43
freemangordonGeneralAntilles: hmm, good idea :D19:43
GeneralAntillesAlthough that might be construed as admitting guilt19:43
GeneralAntilleswhich would be undesirable if he sues you in small claims court.19:43
ShadowJKI havent checked, but I doubt there's even regular mail today19:44
GeneralAntillesOff to work.19:45
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: nand-erase, statically linked19:45
freemangordonhmm, you mean nolo?19:46
freemangordonand x-loader19:46
DocScrutinizer51I mean erase mtd*19:46
freemangordonyeah, the same19:46
freemangordonI've done once by mistake here, cold-flashing fus a fun19:47
freemangordongivven there are no instructions how to be done19:47
*** fionno has joined #maemo19:48
DocScrutinizer51then just tell him he needs to cool down N900 to <10K for coldflash to work19:48
*** zeq has quit IRC19:50
DocScrutinizer51(no instructions) I thought somebody added a jacekowski quote to ~flqshing wiki?19:50
infobotsomebody said coldflash was and next ~200 posts, or
luke-jrfreemangordon: GeneralAntilles: kp50 breaks?19:51
freemangordonluke-jr: It does not have errata workaround19:51
DocScrutinizer51yes, but only if cold and under severe pressure19:51
DocScrutinizer51otherwise it just deforms elastically19:52
*** fionno has quit IRC19:53
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: pali: got a link for you, just need to dig it up again when at home19:55
freemangordongood, what is at the other end of the link?19:55
*** arno0ob has quit IRC19:56
DocScrutinizer51a kernel devfel's blog post19:56
DocScrutinizer51with more nice links19:57
freemangordonyou have thumb errata upstreaming in mind?19:57
freemangordons/errata/errata workaround/19:58
*** andre__ has joined #maemo19:58
*** ivgalvez has joined #maemo19:58
*** rcg has quit IRC20:01
*** eMHa__ has joined #maemo20:02
*** cuppsy has quit IRC20:05
*** cuppsy has joined #maemo20:07
*** jargon- has quit IRC20:07
*** mardi has joined #maemo20:09
*** Scorcer20 has joined #maemo20:10
*** andre__ has quit IRC20:11
*** rcg has joined #maemo20:21
*** githogori has joined #maemo20:24
*** krayon has joined #maemo20:26
*** ponyofdeath has quit IRC20:33
*** erstazi_ has quit IRC20:36
*** MrPingu has joined #maemo20:37
*** erstazi has joined #maemo20:38
*** erstazi has quit IRC20:38
*** erstazi has joined #maemo20:38
MrPingufreemangordon: That cow, is really a cow? How hard is it to read the first post?20:38
*** NIN101 has quit IRC20:41
ViltzuTell me how to get gcc-4.4 or newer in scratchbox :|20:42
freemangordonMrPingu: unfortunately, yes :(20:42
*** ponyofdeath has joined #maemo20:43
*** Atarii has joined #maemo20:44
*** Atarii has quit IRC20:44
*** Atarii has joined #maemo20:44
*** valeriusN has joined #maemo20:44
*** BCat2000 has joined #maemo20:46
*** mvp_ has quit IRC20:46
zeq_laptopfreemangordon: Viltzu: I'll write that scratchbox/thumb/gcc-4.6+ howto as soon as I've finished building linaro-gcc.20:47
Viltzuok. ;u20:48
Woody14619chem|st: While I agree, I'm not defending... I'm simply noting that the rules were followed.20:48
Woody14619Jaffa: In what way?20:48
*** Guest34370 has joined #maemo20:49
Woody14619chem|st: I'm confused by your last reply.  5 N950 loaners for what?20:49
*** dos1 has joined #maemo20:51
*** rcg has quit IRC20:52
*** hazchemix has quit IRC20:52
*** ponyofdeath has quit IRC20:54
*** ponyofdeath has joined #maemo20:54
*** dhbiker has quit IRC20:54
*** NIN101 has joined #maemo20:57
*** ivgalvez has quit IRC20:58
Macergive me an n950 loaner!20:59
Macerdoes the n950 support the att freq for 4G?20:59
Macer* might not get 3G speeds21:00
*** shadeslayer has quit IRC21:03
*** shadeslayer has joined #maemo21:05
*** Guest34370 has quit IRC21:08
*** _federico3 has joined #maemo21:08
*** FireFly has quit IRC21:09
*** FireFly has joined #maemo21:09
*** jargon- has joined #maemo21:10
*** Scorcer21 has joined #maemo21:10
*** Guest34370 has joined #maemo21:14
*** Jade has quit IRC21:16
*** FIQ has quit IRC21:16
*** Jade has joined #maemo21:16
*** Jade has joined #maemo21:16
*** hurbu has joined #maemo21:18
*** beford has quit IRC21:20
DocScrutinizer51freemangordon: sure21:20
*** calvaris has quit IRC21:21
*** Guest34370 has quit IRC21:21
*** Guest34370 has joined #maemo21:26
*** HtheB has quit IRC21:27
*** nsuffys has joined #maemo21:28
DocScrutinizer51ShadowJK: you inow tschunk?21:29
Sicelomeh .. non-booting N900 here :(21:31
*** willer_ has quit IRC21:32
Viltzuasdf rootfs full again...21:32
ViltzuSicelo, reflash?21:33
Sicelonot so fast :D21:33
Sicelobeen wanting to do that since a while ago .. but i'm sure it will boot before i go that far21:33
ViltzuWhat to do when rootfs is full and not sure what to delete..21:35
Viltzu/usr/lib takes 166M21:35
*** cehteh has joined #maemo21:37
*** _federico3 has quit IRC21:38
NIN101basically there ways to move "not-so-important" stuff to /home/ and symlink...21:44
*** _federico3 has joined #maemo21:44
ViltzuYes symlinking would be good.21:45
infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"21:46
NIN101how true.21:47
*** willer_ has joined #maemo21:49
Siceloan, NIN101 is here :)21:49
DocScrutinizer51anyway it's probably a sane thing to  do a df -h *before* and after installation of any suspicious crap21:50
DocScrutinizer51and have a BM backup for easy + complete rollback21:50
*** dhbiker has joined #maemo21:51
Siceloi think mine has been possibly corrupted by the ungraceful shutdowns i have these days. loose battery :(21:51
Lava_Croftjust bend the metal pins a bit21:51
DocScrutinizer51now that you're already fsckd by 0% free on /, I guess a reflash is your best option21:52
Lava_Croftor use some paper or whatever to make sure the batttery dont come loose21:52
NIN101or boot rescue os and nuke crap away. anyway, bbl.21:52
SiceloDocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 05 free from21:52
infobotSicelo meant: DocScrutinizer51: i don't know where Viltzu pulled that 0% free from21:53
DocScrutinizer51*I* pulled that from "not booting" and "usr/lib needs 188MB"21:54
Sicelothat's not my N90021:54
Siceloyeah. i believe my problem is related to unexpected shutdowns (due to battery). what i've now done is put some kitchen foil in the battery contacts to 'improve' conductivity21:57
Sicelobending the pins doesn't seem to be helping me21:58
Sicelobattery contacts21:58
DocScrutinizer51you mean the spring brackets?21:58
Siceloon battery, not n90021:58
DocScrutinizer51they should touch21:58
DocScrutinizer51or actually21:59
Siceloexactly ..mine don't .. they don't seem to be springy enough :?21:59
DocScrutinizer51maybe you broke them?21:59
*** kimitake is now known as kimitake_idle21:59
Sicelothey still look fine.22:00
DocScrutinizer51bnding both sides in with a pin seems to help, usually22:00
DocScrutinizer51the two "balls" should almost touch22:01
*** cuppsy has quit IRC22:01
Sicelojust one quick thing.. btw what's the file in which i can enable fbcon?22:01
DocScrutinizer51you need to go  behind the sring latch to bend it inwards22:01
Siceloi'll try that DocScrutinizer5122:02
*** hazchemix has joined #maemo22:02
Siceloah, got it. /sbin/preinit , it seems22:03
DocScrutinizer51thanks, didn't know22:03
Siceloat least my debian still runs happily :P22:05
Siceloif only...22:05
Sicelowith the future of our repos looking bleak, i wonder22:06
*** cuppsy has joined #maemo22:06
DocScrutinizer51meh, other devices never had any repo22:08
Sicelolooks like it's dsme that requests a shutdown of my n90022:09
DocScrutinizer51and we already got 25 dozen mirrors22:09
SiceloDocScrutinizer51: are those mirrors open to the public?22:09
Sicelogot the cause of my problem .. unknown battery something22:10
*** Scorcer22 has joined #maemo22:10
DocScrutinizer51your BSI contact borked22:10
DocScrutinizer51or your BME got nausea for some reason22:11
Siceloi'm checking bsi right now22:11
Sicelothose repos.. they will be public?22:11
DocScrutinizer51you don't modprobe bq27k.ko for any reason?22:11
Sicelonah, not bq27..22:11
DocScrutinizer51(repos) ask jacekowski, merlin199122:12
Siceloi know for sure my Maemo is relatively sane atm. it's just my battery that's mad :D22:12
DocScrutinizer51seems we're rapidly heading towards even more 'official' alternatives for repos22:13
Siceloah, that's a great development :)22:13
*** Arkenoi has joined #maemo22:13
*** jonwil has quit IRC22:14
*** piggz has joined #maemo22:14
DocScrutinizer51anyway, got me two Tschunk, now I'm fine. Anf off22:14
* Sicelo doesn't like the battery & contacts combo of N900 as similar ones. 22:17
Sicelothe old types, eg BL-5C were so much better22:18
*** willer_ has quit IRC22:22
Sicelolol, so we're already using itt 0.o22:28
infobot[itt] the forums on ( )22:28
*** guampa has quit IRC22:29
*** Estel_ has quit IRC22:32
*** Estel_ has joined #maemo22:32
*** migimunz has quit IRC22:36
*** MrPingu has quit IRC22:38
NIN101"Paul Sleggs (vi_) will receive N950. " joke?22:41
hiemanshuNIN101: where?22:42
*** DocScrutinizer05 has joined #maemo22:43
RaimuWhy'd it be a joke?22:44
NIN101well, I may be wrong, but the self-nomination itself read like a joke. Also I don't remember much technical contributions.22:44
*** jhb has joined #maemo22:47
DocScrutinizer05I couldn't care l4ess to comment on a Community Award that's so much community driven that even nominations are only allowed in form of self-nomination22:49
*** snoopy_ has quit IRC22:50
DocScrutinizer05it's also totally obscure to me what's the expected "return of inverstment" of that CA22:50
*** Zahra has quit IRC22:51
NIN101no offense, but I could basically name a few people who would deserve it more than some winners (and yes, they applied). But anyway, I know why I didn't even tried to get free aegis fun. Even if can be turned off now more or less (not folling the whole story anymore), I have principles :P.22:52
Siceloprinciples \m/22:53
DocScrutinizer05esp when I take into account the incredibly poor adaption of HARM to N950 with hw kbd22:53
*** dhbiker has quit IRC22:55
Woody14619NIN01: You need to read what the CA was about.  It was not about technical input, coding, or the like.  Nor is there any expected "return" on any of it.  It was about PAST accomplisments in building community.22:55
* Woody14619 gets tired of people whining about "what are they promising" and "they're not coders".22:56
DocScrutinizer05( ^^ barbwire)22:56
Woody14619You want a coding awards, go to CC, QT5, or other coding competitions.22:56
Woody14619Lol. :) Cute doc. :)22:57
Woody14619Is that to keep me out, you in, or both? ;)22:57
*** willer_ has joined #maemo22:58
DocScrutinizer05that's to secure my principles22:58
DocScrutinizer05putting money into sth you don't expect *anything* from, seems ... absolutely fool action22:59
*** rm_work has quit IRC22:59
NIN101Woody14619: Ok. But the way vi_ talks with people (esp. newbies) let's me think that he doesn't deserve one, to put it bluntly.22:59
DocScrutinizer05even millionairs giving away their whole fortune do that as they hope to at least feel better afterwards22:59
DocScrutinizer05this CA has *no* visible benefit, in my book23:00
DocScrutinizer05except maybe for Nokia, to pollish their image a tiny itsy teeny bit23:01
DocScrutinizer05and to clean out their rubbish store23:01
Woody14619Someone else said something similar.. about how giving bonuses at work for past work is also foolish.  Do you agree on that?23:01
Woody14619Frankly, it's the same thing... an award for past performance....23:01
Woody14619But companies do that all the time...23:01
DocScrutinizer05no, I think that's a sane thing to increase moral in your employee crew, and to strengthen identification23:02
Woody14619And it seems to work pretty well in some areas.23:02
Woody14619And you don't see that working here in the same way?23:02
DocScrutinizer05no way23:02
vi__So you think I am a jerk?23:02
vi__Thats ok.23:02
*** _|Nix|_ has joined #maemo23:03
Woody14619That giving a "bonus" to those that promoted community will not inspire them to continue that work, maybe even in the new community their new device gives them access into now?23:03
DocScrutinizer05vi__: don't try to be jerkish, that's my domain ;-P23:03
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: for now it doesn't seem like council at large sees GARM as any significant part of community at all23:04
DocScrutinizer05HARM even23:04
Woody14619I think it has a better chance than not... given the recipients (minus one or two, but then I was 100% on with my votes vs the final count. ;)23:04
NIN101Woody14619: Can we see the rationals behind each decision?23:04
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: I doubt council is fully aware of that23:04
Woody14619doc: Do you think that will change, now that 4 of 5 council have a harmattan device?23:04
DocScrutinizer05honestly? no23:05
Woody14619Nin101:  Can I see you tax return?23:05
NIN101aha. ok. cool.23:05
*** perlite_ has joined #maemo23:05
Woody14619Frankly, the process we uses was laid out in the mess of a thread on TMO...23:05
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: particularly since HARM is waaaay more a walking dead than maemo will ever be23:06
Woody14619If you're interested in process, and lists, and what not, go read that.23:06
*** perlite has quit IRC23:06
*** perlite_ is now known as perlite23:07
Woody14619In some ways, that could be argued.  But even the black sheep of the family is still family...23:07
_|Nix|_Hey! I'm trying to get host mode working on my N810. I have a Nokia CA-157 cable and a USB stick. I tried to install usb-otg-plugin and place the device into host mode using it. However, when I plug the stick into the cable, nothing happens.23:07
* Sicelo is also rather surprised that no return at all is expected from CA programme. Then again, it's done :P23:07
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: ...and luring devels away from maemo5 towards and into HARM already did incredible damage to maemo5 community23:07
_|Nix|_Don't I need some kernel modules or something? Like, usb_storage or something?23:08
* Woody14619 knows.... trust me... There are TMO threads full of me screaming about just that.23:08
DocScrutinizer05so I'm basically fine with council ignoring HARM, and I don't see this changing anyway23:08
_|Nix|_Also, I'm not convinced that usb-otg-plugin is doing its job, because /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode reads "UNDEFINED".23:09
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: try PC connectivity manager, or USB hostmode23:09
Woody14619I'll note, on TMO I said as much.. That I was excited and sad to give N9 to top devels.  Excited to see what becomes of it (and how it could unite the communities), and sad because we are losing some resources (even if they split time, it's still a loss over all)23:09
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: I don't think automatic switching to host mode works on N81023:09
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: I'm trying to switch manually with usb-otg-plugin.23:09
DocScrutinizer05never heard of that23:10
Estel_who said we're going to sue harm there?23:10
Estel_I'm going to put Mer as soon as I receive it23:10
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: OK ... I've heard of "hostmode" - where do I get it?23:10
Estel_even considering that Mer adaptation for N9/50 isn't as good as for N900 ;)23:10
Estel_seriously though, harmattan is just another branch of Maemo Community23:11
Estel_as BNF kernel was23:11
Estel_or CSSU is23:11
* DocScrutinizer05 snatches his N81023:11
Estel_or CSSU-thumb is23:11
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Thanks for helping ...23:11
Woody14619Estel_, Mer, Harmattan, reguardless and N9/N950 can't run Fremantle.  Attention will be diverted.23:13
vi__People are pretty upset that these 'dev kits' are being squandered on scum like me.23:13
Estel_vi_, honestly, not very much23:13
vi__Has no one realised the N9 is the ultimate N9 dev kit?23:13
Estel_we've, literally, 4 jerks23:13
Estel_screaming loudly23:13
Estel_on TMO23:13
Woody14619And is it me, or does using the abbriviation "harm" for harmattan seem more fitting, given Aires rants in TMO recently?23:13
Estel_and pretending that they're an army.23:13
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: I got "advanced power settings" which is a battery icon in systray. It has a switched "host"/"OTG" under "USB" menu item23:13
vi__Which you can request from noka as a developer.23:13
Estel_vi_, You got x votes out of x council members, so rest assured ;)23:14
DocScrutinizer05"Advanced Power 0.4.1-6" "Advanced Power Monitor 0.5.1-6"23:14
Estel_Woody14619, Aries is really hopeless23:14
vi__Estel_: shhhh.  I do actually feel a little guilty.23:14
Estel_guy leaving harmattan as soon as Nokia announce it's really dead...23:14
Estel_...but running for Council 3 weeks ago23:15
Woody14619and claiming that by insulting him I'm insulting the community... I know.. :P23:15
Estel_...that seems to be absolutely unpenetrable by simple answer "Ca doesn't have anything to do with future promises"...23:15
Woody14619He got quite a bit of ego, I'll give him that much.23:15
Estel_BTw, in Harm world, he is barely known23:15
Estel_sounds like harm have their own abil_uk23:15
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: you're still here?23:15
Estel_vi_, no worries, You're going to pay for receiving N950 :P23:16
Woody14619and with that.. I'm back to doing minutes so I can avoid it on the weekend. ;)23:16
vi__Can the council not get abill permabanned?23:16
Estel_I've already written, that any bastard complaining, that he havem't got device, can write Pm to You...23:16
Estel_and you will volunteer to reply him where he can put his complains and how to smoke it23:16
Estel_vi_, we can't. TMO is Reggie thing23:16
Estel_ask chem|st about that, he is supermoderator23:17
Estel_he got device too, he could at least do one favor for the communitym and ban abil :P23:17
Estel_Woody14619, take Your time23:17
Raimuvi__: Hey, congrats on winning. Your text was humorous. I do notice you blast a lot of memes over at TMO, but mostly it's all good by me. :323:17
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Rebooting as requested by the installation of advanced-power.23:17
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: ... Nokia hands ...23:17
vi__Raimu: Thank you.23:18
Siceloqgil has been asking for a while now for a vision/direction of where we want to go. /me wonders if he has got any responses yet23:18
Estel_Sicelo, where we want to go with what?23:18
vi__Sicelo: back to internettablettalk domain with debian style repos for all the devices.23:18
RaimuNokia hands is much nicer when you kill the sound from the video file and make it play at 60FPS. :D23:18
Estel_I can suggest him few` new employers, but I'm sure he will manage to do it himself23:18
Estel_It starts to look like one hand open and another showing middle finger?23:19
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Mine says "Unknown mode" under USB and it's grayed out. Do I need some kind of special kernel?23:19
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: in PC Connectivit ymanager in settings panel you find - under "network manager" "USB" a menu with "mass storage", "network", and "Host Mode"23:19
Raimuvi__: Also, you're definitely much more help than hindrance by all accounts, so by all means a prize deserved.23:19
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: (special kernel) not afaik23:19
Estel_vi_, Reggie isn't interested in hosating forum for independent community without big company paying bills.23:19
Estel_ironically, Nemein is much more willing to participate23:19
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: What is "PC connectivity manager"?23:20
vi__who is reggie?23:20
vi__I know of him but who is his employer?23:20
*** jhb has quit IRC23:20
vi__Is he a volunteer?23:20
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: an app23:21
vi__Is it his webserver?23:21
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: So I probably need to install that.23:21
vi__Nokia pay him to use it?23:21
DocScrutinizer05I think Nokia pays some of the expense23:21
vi__Who pays the rest?23:22
DocScrutinizer05who cares?23:22
Estel_Reggie is guy who formed internettablettalk23:22
vi__Estel_: I assumed that.23:22
vi__Will he let is have the domain name?23:22
Estel_vi_, he, rfeportedly, gets ncioe contract with Nokia23:22
Estel_i.e. he get more than needed to pay bills ;)23:22
Estel_but, not to clal him full time worker23:22
Estel_anyway, it seems for him, that having Nokia funding is much more profitable than adverts.23:23
vi__web hosting costs like £60 per year.23:23
Estel_well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty doon23:23
infobotEstel_ meant: well, it's going to end, anyway, pretty soon23:23
vi__For a 'full fat' service.23:23
Estel_vi_,, such huge thing little more, but, anyway23:23
Estel_probably, You need to add one 0 to get sum he's getting ;)23:23
Estel_(disclaimer - it was pure assumption from my side)23:24
DocScrutinizer05vi__: in belarus?23:24
vi__Point is, I could host the forum on my webserver. (rented from bluehost)23:24
vi__DocScrutinizer05: wut?23:24
DocScrutinizer05for 10..15EUR you get a weak vserver here23:24
vi__DocScrutinizer05: Imma fae scotland pal.23:25
DocScrutinizer05in EU23:25
vi__DocScrutinizer05: I am talking about a full fat, no limits all the bells and whistles web server.23:25
DocScrutinizer05nozt that tmo was really hardened against any DoS attack23:25
*** hurbu has quit IRC23:25
vi__A client pays me for it to host their site.23:26
DocScrutinizer05uhuh, with how many hits per day?23:26
vi__I dunno, like 10.23:26
DocScrutinizer05tmo might have 10k/d23:26
vi__DocScrutinizer05: so.23:27
DocScrutinizer05plus 100k attacks23:27
vi__At £60 a year I will expect them to handle it.23:27
vi__The point is we have resources.23:27
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Well, I found it, but when I click on the PC connectivity icon in the status bar, it still has a checkbox next to USB file storage.23:27
*** Venemo_N9 has joined #maemo23:28
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: And when I look at the advanced power thing, it still says "Unknown mode" under USB.23:28
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Maybe I should reboot and try again.23:28
DocScrutinizer05_|Nix|_: dunno, I just recall there were like 3 apps, with 2 of them borked after 2008 OS update, and one should still work23:28
DocScrutinizer05pc connectivity manager has a plugin for settings page23:29
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: That's where I went. I chose host mode from the dropdown, save, apply.23:29
DocScrutinizer05yeah, froze my N810 for ~20s23:29
DocScrutinizer05so I guess it tried to do sth23:30
DocScrutinizer05sorry I last time played with all that stuff like 3 years ago23:31
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: OK - it turned on my USB stick this time, so maybe it did something right.23:31
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Me too, but I'm looking for a cheap Web server until my Raspberry PI arrives ...23:31
Venemo_N9hey guys23:31
Woody14619vi__: To clarify, Reggie has noted he's happy to provide us with a dump and full configs for the server TMO runs on.23:32
*** habmala has quit IRC23:32
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Well, slap me around and call me Suzy! It worked!23:33
Woody14619vi__: The issue is the cost of hosting it.  I can tell you for 60lb/year, you'll get about 2 days of service before they cite their usage policy and either boot you or demand more money. :)23:33
_|Nix|_DocScrutinizer05: Thanks 1e6 for your help!23:33
*** nsuffys has quit IRC23:33
* _|Nix|_ go try it with the real thing now (SATA drive enclosure instead of USB stick).23:33
DocScrutinizer05not with USB vbus power23:34
vi__Woody14619: well.  I just want to do my bit.23:34
DocScrutinizer05iirc the N810 can deliver scarce 100mA23:34
vi__DocScrutinizer05: 100mA!!!!23:35
*** Chiku|dc has quit IRC23:35
vi__That is too much power,23:35
*** Chiku|dc has joined #maemo23:35
Woody14619Though honestly, bluehost (and others) have lots of options for higher use systems like TMO, and it's not super expensive, all said.23:35
vi__Some other forums I use have adverts.23:36
Woody14619We're talking more 30/month vs 60/year, but even that is far less than it was, say 5 years ago..23:36
vi__Not shit loads of them, just one at the top and one at the bottom.23:36
DocScrutinizer05well, for 30EUR a month you get a decent server23:36
vi__I dont mind, I turn ABP off for those forums.23:36
* Woody14619 nods.23:37
DocScrutinizer05with real mysql and all the shite23:37
vi__Is there anyone from the netherlands here?23:37
DocScrutinizer05I once offered to pay those 30 bucks23:37
* Woody14619 stays away from netherlands... (too many crabs)23:38
DocScrutinizer05but some dudes thought it's just a game to administrate, and I should just give them root so they can hand oit to whonmever volunteers23:38
vi__did 'itsnotabigtruck' create the 'inception' hax?23:39
DocScrutinizer05and that's never been the deal23:39
freemangordonvi_: yes23:39
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, also you can never give these kind of people access to the reboot button, they press it zillion times a day23:39
vi__So HE haxed aegis?23:39
DocScrutinizer05vi__: yep, kinda. Though I'd claim it's been javispedro who actually invented it23:39
Woody14619Really, keeping TMO afloat would be pretty simple.  A paypal account and another mod or two to volunteer, and you're done.23:40
* vi__ cracks open a cold can.23:40
Woody14619The costly ones to keep up are the builders and the repos.  CPU & traffic on those sucks the $$$.23:40
vi__Woody14619: can we not move to a local build dydtem?23:41
freemangordonWoody14619: if we are allowed to have what is needed for autobuilder23:41
vi__have people build packages on their local machine and upload the packages or something?23:41
Woody14619Sure... but it's a bit more scattered that way.  And there's the issue of getting the distributables needed.23:41
freemangordonotherwise what vi__ is saying remains the only option23:41
*** dos1 has quit IRC23:42
*** dos1 has joined #maemo23:42
Woody14619We actually have that prett covered in OBS freemangordon...23:42
freemangordonwe were discussing something like that with merlin1991, fortunately he has all of the stuff neded23:42
Woody14619Assuming we can get that off the ground before the mower comes.23:43
freemangordonWoody14619: which is in the same boat as maemo, ain't?23:43
vi__wait, I thought eyes and itsnotabigtruck already had N9?  How else are they devloping there things?23:43
freemangordonvi__, by using the simulator in Qt SDK23:43
vi__he haxed aegis in the qt simulator??23:43
Woody14619Yes and no... If we get it packaged up, then it's quite portable.  Yes, it has the same issue with the EULA, so whomever houses it has to EULA to get the stuff on their local machine to build (same as private build setups are now)23:44
DocScrutinizer05vi__: who gives a shit?23:44
freemangordonvi__: of course not, he has a device23:44
vi__DocScrutinizer05: because the CA shitstorm has me kinda bummed out.23:44
vi__^bummed me out.23:44
*** nox- has joined #maemo23:44
DocScrutinizer05CA pissed me off23:44
* Woody14619 avoids that for today... too much else going on, and frankly, it's friday... 23:45
vi__everything pisses you off.23:45
DocScrutinizer05esp since somebody claimed those who got a loaner may not receive a gift23:45
vi__liberals, weak pullups, etc.23:45
*** mvp_ has joined #maemo23:45
DocScrutinizer05and particularly from the very moment it started to feel like the new king is throwing gold on his people23:46
vi__DocScrutinizer05: steady on.23:47
Woody14619Doc, that was a given before the contest even happened.  And frankly, people were told that when they applied. Nobody picked was given a device if they had won one (or loaned one) from a previous competition or program.23:47
Woody14619Those rules came with the CA.23:47
DocScrutinizer05so what? does it make the rule more sane?23:47
Woody14619Well, I don't make the rules... just reporting them. :)23:49
DocScrutinizer05plus IIRC the rule didn't even mention any excemt when you broke, lost, or gave back your loaner23:49
Woody14619Personally, I'd have prefered not to been involved in the whole process. :)23:49
DocScrutinizer05exactly like me23:49
* Woody14619 nods23:50
Venemo_N9so, what'll happen to maemo.org23:50
DocScrutinizer05it will die after two more CA events23:50
DocScrutinizer05dissolve on e one gigantic troll explosion23:50
Woody14619That's not a known yet.  There's even a slim chance funding will extend to 2013, based on release contracts in India/Asia...23:51
freemangordonaah, not again :P23:51
DocScrutinizer05Woody14619: that won't stop the trolls raid all over "the community", with useless threads with flamewars about CA rules and how shitty the winners are23:52
Woody14619But the only thing we know for sure now is through end of the year.  Anything after that is crystal ball gazing.23:52
DocScrutinizer05two more CA and is dead23:52
DocScrutinizer05the community23:52
Woody14619Happily, I don't think there will be another.23:52
DocScrutinizer05pfooooh, God gracious23:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you asked what is the added value.23:52
freemangordonfor Nokia I mean23:53
DocScrutinizer05probably exactly that?23:53
Woody14619More shelf space in a warehouse? ;)23:53
DocScrutinizer05and pretty please no more CA at beginning of a council term!!!23:55
DocScrutinizer05it just feels too much like USA president election funding23:56
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: There was no other option AIUI, the previous council was an one man show23:56
freemangordonyuo can imagne the shitload SD69 would'd had if he was to decide the winners alone23:57
freemangordonaah, finally, fennec .deb is ready23:58
DocScrutinizer05I think it's been a terrible idea all together. Council should've kept the whole pool of devices for handing them out to active developers who need a replacement or a loaner, on council's very own discretion, at any time due23:59
DocScrutinizer05even maybe try to swap several of them for new N900, on ebay or where ever23:59
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:59
ds3and why isn't there a hardware development category?23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!