IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2012-06-24

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infobotsomebody said tmo was, or, or It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.00:49
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vi___~tmo trolls, morons, oxen.00:49
infobotit has been said that tmo is, or, or It's *not* T-MO (see ~T-MO) or trolls, morons, oxen.00:49
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Hurrianvi__, I assume it's regarding the Community Awards?00:51
vi___uh huh.00:52
vi___that thread has really bummed me out.00:52
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Hurrianman, is it such a hot potato.00:53
Hurrianpersonally, I think we should back off from discussing it until everybody's cooled down.00:53
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vi___I would tend to agree.00:54
Estel_what, 1660 lines to read on #maemo since yesterday? are you kidding me?00:54
Estel_ah, I see, CA discussion migrated here ;)00:54
vi___however a non-winner would suggest our opinion is biased.00:54
* Estel_ just finished reading log00:55
Estel_vi_, OTOH, non-winners are biased too, as they haven't won.00:55
vi___Estel_: well it seems wrong to discuss it in the thread.00:55
Estel_I jsut did it - posted my loast post in this thread00:55
Estel_I've quoted Felipe - as addition to other respectable people posts - and unsubscribed00:55
Estel_let them root there00:56
Estel_after all, this whole mess imade by 4 - sometimes 5 angry people00:56
Estel_that shout loudly like they're an army ;)00:56
vi___Anything that is said is seen as a threat, a troll move, a flounce announce or a good old fashioned spam war.00:56
Estel_(4 when not counting abil, that is idiot anyway)00:56
HurrianEstel_, who let abill_uk back in?00:56
Estel_well, people have their warzone, let them enjoy00:56
Estel_Hurrian, no one, he was never banned00:56
Estel_it's beyond me why chem|st or reggie let him be00:57
HurrianI swear he's been stirring the pot again recently00:57
Estel_they're probabl;y afraid that he will return under 5 different names00:57
vi___Estel_: it is beyond chem|st control.00:57
Estel_No idea, i'm ignoring him for ages00:57
Estel_well, arie sounds like abil 2.0, so00:57
Estel_this guy got about ~16 votes during election, yet, he p[roclaimed himself  "oner and only harmattan councilor" LOL :D00:58
HurrianEstel_, meh, it just disturbs me - I personally prefer to have no one on Ignore list00:58
Estel_BTw, I LOl'ed while reading DocScrutinizer messages here, before. He've made few good points00:58
Hurriangotta fix that problem on the forum00:58
Estel_it's a pity, that he.s douchebag and went into calling lava_croft names, jsut because the latter didn't agreed on photos thing00:58
Estel_Well, whole Doc. He's ignoring me on irc for same reason so... His right to do, anyway *shrugs*00:59
Estel_Hurrian, abil was, probably, fiorst one on my list00:59
Estel_then some idiot, james bondage or whatever, hes absent for ages00:59
Estel_IDK, haven't che3cked ignore list for ages00:59
Estel_or how is he called00:59
Estel_every single one earned it by hard trolling work :p01:00
vi___I have no-one.01:00
Estel_honestly, we have much more im portant things to do, consider lack of Nokia's funding, nthat is coming01:00
Estel_vi_, I jsut don't have time to read through they useless posts01:00
Estel_preffer to jump straight into useful things01:00
Estel_Hurrian, honestly, I would let "Ca results announced" thread alone01:01
Estel_belive me, it will die itself very quickly, without feed for trolls01:01
Estel_what they're gonna do? quote themselves and answer?01:01
vi___but it will not die.01:01
Estel_everything that was worth saying, we've written at least 15 times, already01:02
Estel_it will, You'll see ;)01:02
vi___there is some very bad feelings.01:02
Estel_it was living, because we've replied, unnecessary, about same thingsd, over and over01:02
Estel_stop feeding troll -> troll goes somewhere else01:02
Estel_everyone who got brain made up own mind already - be it "I think it's ok" or "they're corrupted fellas!", whatever01:03
Estel_the other ones are there just for trolling purposes01:03
vi___well i have read enough to feel bad about winning now.01:03
Estel_be it long-time trolls like abil or Arie (who advance din trolling art quite quickly), or newbie-trolls like ZogG, who still think that he got some merit01:03
Estel_vi_, honestly, almsot no one would expect that from You01:03
Estel_so serious mode on:01:03
Hurrianagreed, it's become a toxic topic on TMO, and needs to be left alone for the time being01:04
Estel_Your award is well earned, and anyone trying to disregard it should be slapped into face by rusty fork01:04
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Estel_BTW - have You read Felipe Chrochik mail?01:04
Estel_the one, where he said, that he wanted to donate device to someone, but cxhecking lsit, everyone deserving reward was awarded already?01:04
Estel_it was really nice to read such thing from one of gurus01:05
Estel_not to mention freemangordon, jacispedro, lma etc01:05
Estel_BTW, freemangordon, thanks for taking aprt in that warzone, i know You don't like writing in shitstorm threads01:05
Estel_now, there is only CC running :D01:06
Estel_expect another, much smaller round of whinning by arie and co then01:06
Estel_especially, when Maemo program will be awarded by harmattan device01:06
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Estel_program = application, here01:06
Estel_but, honestly, who care?01:06
Estel_I'm absolutely sure CC will be held next year too, really, those aries/abil/zog pack isn't worth so much worrying. We've had worse flamewars already01:07
vi___the maemo coding competiton is judged by all TMO right?01:07
Estel_vi_, real;ly, don't feel bad about Your win - in other case, prize would be jsut forwarded to CC.01:07
Estel_vi_,, not only TMO01:07
Estel_basically, something like election01:07
Estel_karma minimum of 10, etc01:08
Estel_BTw, have You seen Saera project (topic on TMO)?> It's very promising01:08
Estel_I know, I know, it's only basic AI, but having something like that in N900...01:08
vi___so all eyes and INABT will still get their devices.01:09
Estel_...and teching few hundreds of smart conversation lines...01:09
Estel_vi_, , i doubt it01:09
HurrianEstel_, yup, finally a complete, pre-packaged PocketSphinx implementation01:09
Estel_maybe e-yes01:09
Estel_inabt would need to do somewthing useful, actually...01:09
Estel_instead of scavenging javispedro work01:09
Estel_Hurrian, yea01:09
Estel_I'm going to teach her polish.01:09
Estel_not polish thing01:10
Estel_but Polish language :p01:10
HurrianI really think it needs a rework to avoid stepping on Apple's toes.01:10
vi___Estel_: kto?01:10
Estel_next step - virtual sexc emulator, to give aries something to do instead of writing :P01:10
Estel_vi_, ja01:10
Estel_Hurrian, agreed01:10
Estel_MohammadAG, what you had in mind by "Estel_, please fix it"01:10
Estel_My photo is already on site01:11
HurrianEstel_, interface a USB masturbator using libusb?01:11
Estel_Hurrian, haha01:11
Estel_and connect him to it permanently01:11
Hurrianiirc some japanese dating simulator videogames include those01:11
Estel_or even better, to N9 with aegis error01:11
MohammadAGHurrian: With an x64 compatibility layer!!!01:11
vi___now now chaps, no need to get personal.01:11
Estel_Hurrian, why they clal it dating?01:11
MohammadAGEstel_: I'm not sure why I pinged you then :p01:11
Estel_it'sd all about last part ;001:11
MohammadAGMust've made a mistake cause I remember actually seeing it01:12
Estel_I see, np.01:12
Estel_MohammadAG, any plans to move cssu-thumb to cssu-testing or -devel, actually?01:12
Estel_it seems to be more mature than current cssu-devel01:12
Estel_AFAIK it's up to You or merlin01:13
Estel_(as maintainers)01:13
MohammadAGNo, we have oppositions about forcing everyone to thumb01:13
Hurrian...speaking of libusb, did anyone get the memo that it's deprecated by libusbx? I think that finally means developing 0xFFFF as main priority flasher should be higher now01:13
MohammadAGI'll leave you to discuss that with DocScrutinizer in your own time frame01:13
Estel_MohammadAG, LOL? CSSu is forcing many other things, already01:14
MohammadAGNote: requires at least 2 hours01:14
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Estel_and I'm not talking about oeprator widget only ;)01:14
Estel_MohammadAG, discussing with DocScrutinizer is futile01:14
MohammadAGEstel_: Not as big as thumb01:14
MohammadAGThis has a potential ABI break01:14
HurrianMohammadAG, let's wait for another two releases of cssu-testing before pushing it into CSSU Main01:14
Estel_well, so point single meritocratic argument of any con caused by thumb.01:14
Hurrianside note: CSSU thumb forces you to use k-p, and not the nokia kernel01:14
Hurrianso nokia kernel purists who use cssu may bitch01:14
Estel_Hurrian, yea. But that's later about cssu and cssu-kp01:14
MohammadAGEstel_: Camera ui and the oerator widget while indeed forced do not cause some sort of ABI break01:15
Estel_Hurrian, lets leave them non-kernel variant of CSSu, but it shouldn't be main01:15
Estel_MohammadAG, what is broken by thumb now?01:15
MohammadAGThumb does, it needs a new kernel and thus we need to ensure that all kernels support it and we nee to ship our own kernel for those not using kernel power01:15
Estel_despite saving memory and rootfs space, which is rather pros?01:15
Estel_MohammadAG, see few lines above.01:16
MohammadAGNothing, it's an ABI break01:16
Estel_like enter and kp_enter in terminal?;)01:16
MohammadAGGoogle ABI break of you're not familiar with the term01:16
Estel_honestly, it sounds ratyher ideological.01:16
Estel_I am.01:16
SpeedEvilUmm - isn't thumb deprecated and partially broken on the n900 proc?01:16
Estel_of course it's up to you, but CSSU is now veyr fragmented, which is quite funny for project with so low suer-base01:16
MohammadAGEstel_: It requires recompiled binaries01:16
HurrianSpeedEvil, it's fixed now01:16
SpeedEvilah :)01:16
Estel_(objectively, not subjectively vs Maemo at all)01:16
MohammadAGSpeedEvil: Fixed01:16
SpeedEvilSorry - not been keeping up.01:16
Estel_MohammadAG, no, it doesn't. ARM binaries works fine01:17
Estel_it require recompiling to benefit from thumb01:17
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MohammadAGNo, it's not up to me, I got hammered when I said I don't mind thumb in main branch01:17
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Estel_+ we have kernel-power-settings that depend onw rong thing, but it's rather not CSSU problem01:17
Estel_MohammadAG, so don't let Yourself be hammered so easily, without merit01:17
Estel_DocScrutinizer is stubborn without any merit there01:17
MohammadAGEstel_: Yes, and if someone switches kernels they can't use those binaries01:17
Estel_and his personal ego can't obstruct CSSu development, IMO01:17
MohammadAGResulting in an unstable system01:17
Estel_I agreed with kernel01:18
Estel_I see no rpoblems with CSSU-kernel and CSSU-lite variant01:18
MohammadAGEstel_: I simply give up, less headache01:18
Estel_it's natural, that the lite one will be maintained and featured less.01:18
Hurrianwow, that's fragmented.01:18
vi___I do not believ thumb belongs in cssu-main.01:18
MohammadAGNo personal attacks, please!01:18
Estel_MohammadAG, bad practice, giving up make folk like DocScrutinizer think, that if they shout loudly enough, they will have everything like they like.01:18
Estel_no problem :)01:18
Estel_I'mattacking position, not person.01:18
vi___It does not smell right.01:19
Estel_I jsut don't accept "you won't hijack CSSU" as answer, why thumb is bad, and other changes aren't.01:19
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Estel_now we have CSSu-Stable, being not updated for ages01:19
MohammadAGEstel_: He has valid points, he's entitled to make an opinion01:19
Estel_CSSU-Testing, working as CSSU-main01:19
Hurrianvi___, all that's needed to be done is to prove that thumb code executes properly on CPU01:19
Estel_MohammadAG, I absolutely agree. for opinion, not for blocking.01:19
Estel_Hurrian, it's proved already.01:19
vi___Hurrian: yes, however it is a one way ticket.01:19
Estel_...then, we have CSSU-devel, sue dby almsot no one...01:20
Estel_And CSSu-thumb, acting as -devel01:20
Estel_So, *reral* world looks like:01:20
MohammadAGEstel_: If his opinion is agreed upon by others then I wouldn't argue01:20
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Estel_MohammadAG, I seem to reclal that You said You don't mind thumb in main01:20
Estel_reality is, that we have CSSU-Testing as main, and CSSU-thumb as testing01:20
Estel_mutualy incompatible01:21
MohammadAGEstel_: Yes, but If DocScrutinizer and others suggested not to do that for valid reasons, I won't force it01:21
Estel_then, we have CSSU-Stable as "legacy"01:21
Estel_and CSSu-devel failing to provide.01:21
Estel_OK, no problem. i'm making my points too01:21
Hurrianimo, since our N900s have such limited compute power, it's best that we utilize all it's features when we can01:21
MohammadAGI started the cssu, I could be thought of the main leader of it but with great "power" comes great resposibility01:21
Estel_it's CSSu maintainers responsibility, i'm not stepping in Your shoes01:21
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Hurrianwe /may/ break some programs in corner cases, but it only means it should be fixed and tested more, not roll back01:21
Estel_eh, spidermen quotation again?01:21
MohammadAGThere's a good user base running the cssu, we can't break stuff for them01:21
Estel_I liked times when people were watching original star wars trilogy and lord of the rings, more :)01:22
Estel_MohammadAG, who said about breaking?01:22
Estel_you have CSSU-stable01:22
MohammadAGEstel_: It shows when you run sudo for the first time on Debian01:22
Estel_CSSU-thumb is ready for CSSU-devel, anyway01:22
MohammadAGThat's where I learned it, never seen spidey01:22
Estel_thanks godness ;)01:22
MohammadAGEstel_: Typical situation01:22
MohammadAGUser installs cssu01:22
Estel_anyway, i jsut don't realize why CSSU-devel isn't good place for thumb01:22
MohammadAGUser uses thumb binaries01:22
* Estel_ is listening01:23
MohammadAGUser decided to legally hack a wifi network by using the supported kerne01:23
MohammadAGUser blindly follows tutorial instructing him to use kernel01:23
Estel_so we have user error, already. CSSU problem?01:23
MohammadAGUser installs kernel with WLAN drivers, ends up with unbootable drivers01:24
Hurrianmp-fremantle-community-pr-thumb Conflicts: kernel-power < 5101:24
MohammadAGErr, unbootable or unstable system01:24
MohammadAGSorry, I'm tired01:24
Estel_there are still tutorials, where people are supposeds kp4-wl101:24
Estel_MohammadAG, LOL, thisa way we should use kp5001:24
Estel_cause it break, when user flashed kp46-wl101:24
MohammadAGHurrian: That's not the only kernel and Debian packaging isn't the only way of installing a custom kernel01:24
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MohammadAGYou could use flasher01:24
Estel_not to mention ,that this can be handled easily by dependencies and conflicts.01:24
Hurrianmp-fremantle-community-pr-thumb Requires: kernel-thumb-support01:25
Estel_MohammadAG, if someone use flasher for that, it's his damn responsibility01:25
Estel_to ensure that he isn't dumbie.01:25
Estel_Hurrian, agree01:25
Estel_thinking like that, we would be sittinjg on Nokia kernel without CSSu at all01:25
Hurriananything else is idiot intentionally breaking system01:25
MohammadAGNo, the fact that online guides make it easy doesn't01:25
Estel_anyway, I understand that You're tired MohammadAG,. not keeping You with prolonged discussion01:25
Hurriananyways, user should be able to mount fremantle rootfs from nemo and reinstall correct modules and flash kernel01:26
MohammadAGNo, I'm tired so I will make typing mistakes01:26
Estel_MohammadAG, everyone can use dpkg --force or flasher, no matter what01:26
MohammadAGIt's not my way of leaving a discussion01:26
Estel_ah I see01:26
Estel_no problem, I also do them ;)01:26
Estel_Well, idiot can force installation of kp46-wl1 modules on kp5001:26
MohammadAGEstel_: Flasher is easier to use than dpkg --gorce01:26
Estel_so what?01:26
MohammadAGAccording to online guides01:26
Estel_arguable, but even if...01:26
Maceranybody try a roku?01:26
Estel_we shouldn't give a shit about random online guide.01:26
Estel_If I write guige to do crossover USb cable, plug it into main, and enable hostmode...01:27
Hurrian*shouldn't we simply paint a big, fat banner that idorts need to use modern kernels?01:27
Estel_Should we banish hostmode?01:27
Estel_^^^ yes for what Hurrian said01:27
vi___you cannot do that.01:28
Hurrianactually, fmg's thumb enable patch should be in all kernels built from here on out01:28
Estel_Don't take iot as personal, but IMO DocScrutinizer is jsut pivoting CSSu to his own "vision" suited only for his particular device, which is becoming mroe and more irritating for casual users01:28
vi___You have to make it idiot proof.01:28
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: no, it's not fixed. It has a _amybe_ working workaround in kernel space01:28
Macerlol. well... he put in a lot of work01:28
Estel_honestly, we have so low ammount of devs working on CSSu, that You can't even get bug report acknowledged, when written in one of 6 CSSU threadfs01:28
Estel_CSSu-stable, CSSU-Testing, CSSU-devel, CSSU-thumb...01:28
Estel_Tommorow we will have CSSU-Thumb-testing01:29
vi___Estel_: that is absurd.01:29
Estel_and whole 3 people working on all of them01:29
Estel_+ programmers of other applications, screwing this and writing for compatibility with latest CSSu only01:29
Estel_or even worse, one that they feel fancy most01:29
Estel_DocScrutinizer, is wrong, again01:30
Estel_freemangordon got *absolutely* working workaround in kernel secure mode.01:30
Estel_Judging by that, we have _maybe_ working hostmode, _maybe_ working wifi with injection, and _maybe_ working CSSU01:30
Estel_disrespecting freemangordon work, just because it doesn't suit personal tatse, is just... Well, I'll refrain from naming it.01:31
Estel_BTW, we're talking about CSSU-tumb going into CSSU-devel01:31
Estel_magiv 5 letters01:31
infobotEstel_ meant: magic 5 letters01:31
Estel_no one said that it has to go stable tommorow.01:32
Estel_Just, today's plentora-repo and plentora-topic scenario is absurd.01:32
Estel_tommorow, we will end with 10 CSSu vfariants, everyone used by 5 people. + 3 variants used by devs and maintainers only.01:33
Estel_ah, whatever. Not my cup of tea, anyway01:33
* Estel_ is going to do full-backup and upgrade CSSU-thumb01:33
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Estel_freemangordon, could it be related to compcache?
Estel_from the other barrel of vine - I've read about harmattan view on /etc/event.d and aegis...01:36
Estel_I'm jsut going to throw Mer into N950 as soon as it arrives,even though it isn't and probably never will be fully hardware supported :/01:36
infobotEstel_: thanks01:39
* infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer05 in the darkest corner of the room. :(01:39
infobothostmode is, like, piece of crap written by morons to fry other people's devices! beware!01:40
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/01:40
HurrianEstel_, pm01:45
Estel_Hurrian, on TMO?01:45
infobotit has been said that docscrutinizing is when someone value his ideology, ti the point of trying to force it on others, no matter of cost. Possible use case are a) infobot abuse b) threats for kick on IRC c) calling "idiot" anyone, who doesn't agree. Also, see zealot or pottering.01:51
*** DocScrutinizer05 is now known as DocScrutinizing01:51
DocScrutinizing~forget docscrutinizing01:51
infoboti forgot docscrutinizing, DocScrutinizing01:52
DocScrutinizing~lock docscrutinizing01:52
DocScrutinizing~docscrutinizing is a nonsense invented by estel_ as he's a fool01:52
infobotDocScrutinizing: okay01:52
DocScrutinizing~lock docscrutinizing01:52
infobotlocking factoid docscrutinizing, DocScrutinizing01:52
*** DocScrutinizing is now known as DocScrutinizer0501:53
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Estel_fun things happen on IRC during night, yep? It's almost like minecraft night mode.01:53
DocScrutinizer05Estel_: warning! pending kickban for bot abuse on purpose of personal insult01:53
Estel_Docscrutinizer! warning~pwnding removal of chanop operator, for threatening with power abuse.01:54
Estel_or even of ;001:54
NIN101kids everywhere.01:55
Estel_sure, we have baby-boom.01:55
*** DocScrutinizer05 is now known as DocScrutinizing01:58
M4rtinKhey, I once saw Lennart in person :)01:58
*** DocScrutinizing is now known as DocScrutinizer0501:58
infobotrumour has it, kickban is tool, that was used to manage irc account in good old days. Reportedly, on #maemo, it's only thing some people have to say, when they hypocrytic behavior of pivoting infobot is revealed. Also, see ~pivoting01:58
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Estel_M4rtinK, and how he was like?01:59
Estel_Normal person, I suppose?01:59
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo kickban01:59
infobotkickban -- created by Estel_ <~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-> 1m 7s ago; it has been requested once, last by Estel_, 43s ago.01:59
DocScrutinizer05~forget kickban01:59
infoboti forgot kickban, DocScrutinizer0501:59
nox-re poettering01:59
Estel_BTW, we will need to talk a little abotu 3rd party infobot statyus on IRC02:00
NIN101ah yeah, i was their in RL when he was highjacking this talk.02:00
Estel_it's quiite not Ok, than one, biased person, keep admin rights over this tool.02:00
* nox- only watched the stream02:00
M4rtinKlooked normal :)02:00
DocScrutinizer05a very funny one02:00
M4rtinKI've heard he is not the best moderator in the world :)02:01
* DocScrutinizer05 lols at momentary glance of unfiltered chanlog02:01
infobotwell, infobot is a 3rd party tool, that will transfer into proper channel tool soon, instead of being toy managed by one guy only, and pivoted to his needs.02:02
NIN101OMG it's getting ridiculous Estel_02:02
Estel_NIN101, You're missing fun from TMO Ca thread?;)02:02
NIN101not at all.02:02
DocScrutinizer05for the records: infobot is absolutely completely unrelated to Nokia, #maemo, or any other domain some people here think they have to conquer to increase their self esteem02:02
Estel_~3rdparty is when something is not related to Nokia, @maemo, or whatever02:03
infobotEstel_: okay02:03
infobotmethinks 3rdparty is when something is not related to Nokia, @maemo, or whatever02:03
Estel_for the records ;)02:03
DocScrutinizer05the only relation between infobot and #amemo is it's been invited by chanowner(!)02:03
Estel_nice. Thanks for info, we will contact chanowner about this issue.02:04
Estel_factoids are fun toys, but shouldn't be used to manipulate facts, like02:04
infobotdo ~hostmode  and  ~factinfo hostmode, this is your maemo council :-/02:05
Estel_~manipulation is something like ~h-e-n02:05
infobotEstel_: okay02:05
infobotmethinks manipulation is something like ~h-e-n02:05
Estel_OK fellas, tired of this BS. See ya tommorow02:05
* Estel_ waves02:05
DocScrutinizer05ok, it seems time to tweak her ignore list as well02:05
DocScrutinizer05~forget manipulation02:07
infoboti forgot manipulation, DocScrutinizer0502:07
DocScrutinizer05~factinfo infobot02:08
infobotinfobot -- created by Jupe <> at Wed Nov 16 23:40:52 2011 (219 days); last modified 6m 9s ago  by Estel_!~Estel@Maemo/Community/council/Estel-; it has been requested 81 times, last by Estel_, 5m 53s ago.02:08
DocScrutinizer05~forget infobot02:08
infobotDocScrutinizer05: i forgot infobot02:08
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DocScrutinizer05since overriding factoids like ~infobot is an offensive act and not conforming to supposed good will in using the bot02:16
DocScrutinizer05as generally is deletion or complete redefinition of established factoids, to make them meet personal preferences or channel specific info02:19
MacerYELLOW CARD!02:23
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Estel_DocScrutinizer bitching as usual? See ~h-e-n that You've overwritten yourself, then lockied.02:47
Estel_do what Yuo want, for me You've lost any reasonability and donm't qualify to moderate anything, be it maemo irc channel, or even toy as infobot. I'll do my best, to forward every log of Your abuse to correct authority.02:48
Estel_Of course, when time permits, as we have *much* more important things to do, than one childlish chanop in IRC. Keep that in mind, no one is unremovable.02:49
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GeneralAntillesCan I ban?02:57
GeneralAntillesI want to ban?02:57
GeneralAntillesOr maybe just +q.02:57
RST38hNo, but you can whine02:57
RST38hOr troll. In fact, trolling is morespectacular02:57
GeneralAntillesI haven't trolled in a while.02:57
GeneralAntillesI should get the crew back on Live or something.02:58
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: I'm welcoming any assistance/stand-in, in whatever form02:59
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, but that means I'd have to read scrollback03:00
GeneralAntillesand figure out exactly what happened. :<03:00
DocScrutinizer05well, that's part of the game, yes03:00
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GeneralAntillesBut my eyes are already bleeding.03:01
GeneralAntillesWhy do you two want to make my eyes bleed more?03:01
DocScrutinizer05actually for both, banning and (proper good) trolling03:01
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DocScrutinizer05I'm actually doing very little that I don't feel like mandatory moderation action03:01
DocScrutinizer05when somebody is abusing ibot, I start action to fix this03:02
DocScrutinizer05depending on the main field of impact, either on bot side or channel moderation side (if applicable)03:03
DocScrutinizer05not planning to hurt your eyes :-D03:04
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DocScrutinizer05but actually I hope it's already a closed ticket, so no need for you to take further action - at least that's what I hope is result of some settings tweaking behind the scenes I did03:06
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DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: on a more joyful topic - what do you think about our infra future?03:08
javispedromoo gentlemen!03:09
DocScrutinizer05javispedro: !! :-))))03:09
DocScrutinizer05long time no see!03:10
javispedrohow's #maemo feeling tooday03:11
DocScrutinizer05recently a bit mad, but nothing really unusual03:11
RST38hMoo, javispedro03:11
RST38hWhat brings you here at 3:11 or whatever time it is?03:11
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javispedroso i'm outside enjoying someone else's fireworks03:12
DocScrutinizer05hey, nice03:12
DocScrutinizer05that's Spain the way I like it - fireworks at 2o'clock in the night03:13
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javispedrothough the average rate is already decreasing :)03:14
RST38hDoc: Getting this shit all over the year in Moscow03:15
GeneralAntillesHey, javispedro.03:16
GeneralAntillesHow's life?03:16
RST38hDoc: as every fat pig feelslike buying fireworksfor his birthday03:16
DocScrutinizer05yeah, Moscow is insane, thought as much03:16
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javispedroGeneralAntilles, finely doing03:22
javispedroI am starting my slow descent into apple cult03:22
RST38hno noooooo03:22
* javispedro types from an mba03:22
RST38hgo with the huge green trashcan03:23
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, meh, nothing wrong with their computers (for the time being, at least until they turn them into appliances).03:23
GeneralAntillesIt's the mobile devices where the trouble is.03:23
GeneralAntillesAnyway, glad to hear it, javispedro. :)03:23
RST38hnot that it is good, but at least it is not viral03:23
javispedroone cannot enter an apple store with a $2000 prepaid card and exit empty handled :)03:24
RST38hjavispedro: So, the question "who gave you the first one as a present?" is fully valid?03:25
RST38hhow evil they are, those Apple cultists!03:25
DocScrutinizer052000$ prepaid card - DUH!03:27
Hurrianjavispedro, all my apple stuff are presents/free stuff03:27
RST38hHe can still survive this if he buys a MacBook and instals Win7 on it03:28
Hurrianit's incredible how something I actively avoid buying ends up here03:28
RST38hRitually killing MacOS in its hardware womb!03:28
javispedroRST38h is right in that I'm actually trying to scavenge a w7 license to see how fast it boots :)03:29
GeneralAntillesBoo, W7.03:29
DocScrutinizer05wait, seems I got some stickers under my laptops03:29
GeneralAntillesI'm recently enamored with Linux Mint Cinnamon.03:29
DocScrutinizer05ooh, only xp03:29
javispedroalso, the store was on portland, OR, no tax...03:31
javispedrodon't tell spain's IRS, please :)03:32
* GeneralAntilles phones up the consulate.03:32
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javispedrowell, gotta go!03:33
javispedrocya soon hopefully03:33
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RST38hrun for the board!03:34
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RST38hMghm...why board? Border.03:43
* RST38h wonders how this particular mistake has been made03:43
GeneralAntillesMuscle memory is an awesome thing.03:44
Estel_Hello GeneralAntilles! nice to see Your writings again03:45
DocScrutinizer05GeneralAntilles: there's ever before been such flamewar against any maemo council?03:47
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer05, the ITT -> Talk changeover was pretty toasty.03:47
DocScrutinizer05who's been driving that, back when?03:49
DocScrutinizer05(just out of interest)03:50
GeneralAntillesDriving the changeover?03:50
GeneralAntillesIt was part of the overhaul.03:50
GeneralAntillesMostly it was Reggie, I think.03:50
GeneralAntillesDon't recall entirely.03:50
GeneralAntillesThat was, what, 2009?03:50
GeneralAntillesLike, 30 years ago.03:50
DocScrutinizer05I more asked about proponents03:50
DocScrutinizer05who came up with the suggestion, who thought it's a good (or bad) idea?03:51
GeneralAntillesMost of the core people thought it was a good idea03:51
GeneralAntillesI don't recall where the suggestion originated.03:51
GeneralAntilleser03:51 and ITT core people03:51
GeneralAntillesMost of the whining came from people whose names I don't recall.03:52
DocScrutinizer05and the usual suspects rushed in whining and shouting, I guess03:52
GeneralAntillesCan't blame us for not communicating, though! :P03:52
DocScrutinizer05yeah :-)03:52
DocScrutinizer05what a crazy world this has become03:53
GeneralAntillesMixed up muddled up shook up world03:54
* DocScrutinizer05 feels like inspecting fridge for a beer now03:54
RiDi wonder what would happen if suddenly every technological device stopped wokrking03:54
RiDwe'd all probably die03:54
merlin1991inspecting as if it has been there since years?03:54
DocScrutinizer05damn sure we would - trolls on tmo first03:55
GeneralAntillesOh damn03:55
GeneralAntillesThat reminds me03:55
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: yep, exactly03:55
GeneralAntillesI've got about 2 glasses left in a REALLY GOOD bottle of wine.03:55
DocScrutinizer05:-D yay03:55
RiDin the literal way03:55
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: hi, btw :-)03:55
DocScrutinizer05RiD: sure literally. And trolls literally would die from any mad action they can't keep themselves from doing when they can't troll anymore03:56
RiDDocScrutinizer05, mind if I ask, what IRC client do you use on your n900?03:57
DocScrutinizer05like... running out on the street shouting at next police officer and pointing at him with something that might look like a waepon03:57
GeneralAntillesREALLY GOOD WINE03:57
GeneralAntillesThat is all.03:58
RiDDocScrutinizer05 have you figured out how to autocomplete nicknames? I didn't *cries*03:58
DocScrutinizer05RiD: with proper config ;-D03:58
DocScrutinizer05sure thing03:58
DocScrutinizer05one up03:58
DocScrutinizer05then /xchat03:58
DocScrutinizer05I do autocomplete by shift-space03:59
DocScrutinizer05other minor tweaks in those config and scriptie files there03:59
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DocScrutinizer05I think xchat becomes pretty usable that way03:59
RiDDocScrutinizer05 oh, it works lol. Thanks for the link, definitely going to check out some stuff03:59
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RiDYou know, I once almost got in trouble with a IRC moderator (not on freenode, though) because he didn't believe I wasn't on the computer04:01
RiD"but you are on xchat"04:02
RiDI had to take a print screen to show him I was not lying, lol04:02
merlin1991hm all I have is Slivovitz04:02
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05:  found that beer? :D04:03
DocScrutinizer05dang, there's been something on my task stack....04:03
* DocScrutinizer05 heads out04:03
DocScrutinizer05YEAH \o/04:03
DocScrutinizer05Krug-Brau Lager04:04
RiDI got H20 mixed with some nitrogen to keep it cold04:04
RiDbest fridge I ever had04:05
trxmerlin1991 haha is it Serbian?04:06
merlin1991trx: ofc :)04:06
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DocScrutinizer05RiD: /ctcp DocScrutinizer51 version04:07
DocScrutinizer05not 05, 51!04:08
RiDoh *sigh*04:08
RiDxchat 2.8.604:08
DocScrutinizer05actually I'm a bit confused as I thought it will answer with a clue about "maemo" somehow04:09
DocScrutinizer05but it doesn't it seems04:09
* DocScrutinizer05 blames RST38h ;-P04:10
merlin1991too much information makes it too easy for exploiters ;)04:11
RiDit should say mars :/04:12
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: slivo is really amazing when digested warm (+50°C ++), when you put some pepper into the pot where you warm it up04:12
DocScrutinizer05good black papper, not that tasteless grey dust04:13
DocScrutinizer05pepper even04:13
DocScrutinizer05think I learnt that at a yugoslavian restaurant04:14
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merlin1991they have a different slivo there04:15
DocScrutinizer05*this* might actually be the case04:15
RiDI have to go, see you all04:17
DocScrutinizer05see you, RiD04:17
DocScrutinizer05what's .pt anyway?04:18
* RiD feels offended04:19
RiDPT is PorTugal04:19
RiDnot offended, but I thought Portugal was still in the map04:19
DocScrutinizer05sorry, no clue about FLDs04:19
DocScrutinizer05or TLD?04:19
RiDI don't even know what FLD or TLD is04:19
DocScrutinizer05top level domain04:19
RiDoh, and what is fld then?04:20
DocScrutinizer05the rightmost part of a URL04:20
DocScrutinizer05first level04:20
DocScrutinizer05as iirc things like google in is second level04:20
infobotFirst Level Domain04:21
DocScrutinizer05~wiki fld04:21
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{redirect|FLD|Fisher's linear discriminant|Linear discriminant analysis}} {{Cleanup|date=October 2008}} "Most of the content is verified to be copyright-violation-free. Please edit the article to remove any copyright violation instead of deleting the article." {{Expert-verify|date=October 2008}} 'Ferro Liquid Display' or Ferro-electric Liquid Display (FLD) or Ferro Fluid Display (FFD) is ...04:21
RiDthat bot is way too smart. Anyways, don't stop me from going04:21
merlin1991itsn't it tld04:21
merlin1991as in top level domain?04:22
DocScrutinizer05dafaq, who's fisher and his discriminant? :-o04:22
RiDI can't read that text, my whole vision is getting blurry.04:22
merlin1991~wiki tld04:22
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{redirect|TLD}} {{Redirect|TLDN|Temporary Location Directory Number|Mobile Station Roaming Number}} A 'top-level domain' (TLD) is one of the domains at the highest level in the hierarchical Domain Name System of the Internet.{{cite web | url= | title=Domain Name System Structure and Delegation | accessdate=2011-02-07 | last=Postel | first = Jon | ...04:22
merlin1991hah :)04:22
* DocScrutinizer05 waves at RiD04:22
Estel_damn, almsot two weeks ago I got mail from Farnell, that my RPi was sent04:22
Estel_they've also charged my credit card. Still, no delivery04:22
Estel_I though rPi was sent via quick delivery provider, like DHL or something like that?04:23
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* DocScrutinizer05 cheers at merlin199104:23
Estel_now they FCKD up loging system don't leg me log in - I've tried recovering password, but it requires username. I've tried recovering username, but when I provide my real name and mail (correct, as I've got notification there) it says, that i'm not in client base. WTF?04:24
Estel_anyone here received Rpi? What delivery service they've used?04:24
merlin1991my rpi is still mia04:24
DocScrutinizer05rpi like the berry?04:25
Estel_merlin1991, but they haven't send You notification about shipping it already/haven't charged credit card?04:25
merlin1991dunno a m8 ordered them04:25
Estel_I see04:26
merlin1991afaik the charged some time ago but nothing else ever happened04:26
Estel_well, good way of selling things :P04:26
DocScrutinizer05is that just me or is the slivo already kicking in? ;-D04:26
DocScrutinizer05aaah finally my wetware parser spit out sth about m804:27
Estel_I wonder if Pi is going to be available in larger quantities, whenever04:27
DocScrutinizer05~wtf m804:27
infobotGee...  I don't know what m8 means...04:27
merlin1991I guess we have to tell her about that one :)04:27
Estel_I ordered this one for personal use - ED via miniHDMI in different resolutions, for outside screen...04:28
Estel_But I also liekd to investigate turning it into mediabox, and maybe even buying more and selling mediaboxes04:28
DocScrutinizer05~m8 is mate04:28
* infobot throws a AN/M-8 smoke grenade at is mate04:28
DocScrutinizer05dang wut?04:28
merlin1991Estel_: if you're going for a media box look into openelec04:28
merlin1991they have a rpi build04:29
Estel_thanks, looks good.04:29
DocScrutinizer05aaah, now the convo starts to make even more sense ;-)04:29
Estel_~AK47 DocScrutinizer04:30
merlin1991DocScrutinizer05: had *some* slivo way before I came on here, so if anything my text output is rubbish ever since ;)04:30
DocScrutinizer05nah, I simply got confused by some parts missing, so I lost the context04:31
Estel_~assasinate Farnell04:31
Estel_~murder farnell04:31
Estel_ah, she doesn't liksten to me anymore ;)04:31
Estel_thanks to some egomaniac ;D04:31
Estel_BTW, I wonder if it's just delivery overdue, or...04:32
M4rtinKregarding the Rpi as a media centre - note that it currently doesn't do MPEG-2 due to licensing issues04:35
merlin1991Estel_: I think it's part of their business plan04:36
Estel_currently? i.e. it did it before, or will do later?04:36
merlin1991M4rtinK: it does a few others aswell04:36
merlin1991Also, it does anything you want it to on cpu ;)04:36
merlin1991though that is quite slow04:36
Estel_mpeg-2 isn;t used for DVDs?04:36
M4rtinKDVDs and DVB-T04:37
Estel_DVB-T not everywhere, most countries use MPEG-404:37
M4rtinKandy maybe DivX/X-Vid and similar ?04:37
Estel_only germany and some others incorporate mpeg-204:37
Estel_IIRc, xvid and divx is other cup of tea04:37
Estel_but I may be wrong04:37
Estel_anyway, what about those licensing issue?04:37
* Estel_ is going to read rPi page04:37
merlin1991Estel_: the software to offload the decoding to the gpu is closed04:38
merlin1991and gay04:38
Estel_yea, was aware of that...04:39
M4rtinKthere is the discussion about it:
Estel_but mpeg-2, from all standards?04:39
merlin1991the backend is openmax04:39
M4rtinKbasically, it would cost some 2 dolars more per unit04:39
merlin1991why exactly has it "open" in the name?04:39
M4rtinKlike the Open Group ? :)04:40
merlin1991M4rtinK: also: Two licensed codecs will be provided at launch, MPEG4 and h.26404:40
M4rtinKor Open Handset Alliance ? :)04:40
M4rtinKyeah, IMHO they paid the licence for MPEG-4 and h.26404:40
M4rtinKbut not MPEG-204:40
merlin1991oh I mixed up does and doesn't04:41
M4rtinKthe hardware is certainly capable04:41
M4rtinKbut there are no drivers :)04:42
M4rtinKwell, for MPEG-204:42
M4rtinKstill, I'm quite optimistic in this one04:42
DocScrutinizer05merlin1991: h.264 is licenced?04:42
merlin1991they claim high profile decode runs fine04:43
merlin1991the famous 1080p line04:43
M4rtinKthere are just too many developers with the boards in their hands :)04:43
cehtehDoc you dont have a pi yet? :)04:44
cehtehhah :) i do04:44
DocScrutinizer05not even pondered to get one04:44
M4rtinKI don't have one either (yet)04:44
DocScrutinizer05don't make me feel envy04:44
cehtehwell i didnt used mine past week .. too busy04:45
M4rtinKbut I should get a 3D printed case for it soon from a friend :)04:45
DocScrutinizer05what for do you all (plan to) use it?04:45
cehtehnot finally settled .. have to much ideas but only one device :P04:46
cehtehthis first one is for experimenting and testing04:46
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: hi, btw :)04:46
M4rtinKprobably a media box & GPIO fun04:47
cehtehand will either end as kitchen computer, mediaplayer or some other home appliance (web-controllable sockets or so)04:47
cehtehi'll bring mine to froscon04:47
cehtehalso planned to integrate it in my monitor but it cant do its full resolution (which is slightly out of spec)04:48
cehtehor autonomous flying qadcopter. .. whatever there are many ideas :)04:48
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cehtehthis binary blobs suck .. but the rest is way freeer .. build mostly up to date kernels, no (much) ugly patches, zram performs well for example04:50
cehtehunlinke the n900 where nokia patched the mm code04:50
Estel_heh, after reading this whole bullshit...04:51
Estel_(i.e. forum rPi about mpeg-2)04:51
cehtehyes that sux04:51
Estel_I really doubt they haven't go with something that use hardware Theora decoding ;)04:51
Estel_heck, I even sue theora in my N900, I don't care that it's running on CPU only04:52
cehtehdunno, but there is a so big community they may reverse engineer the graphics core :P04:52
Estel_"If Yuo decode mpeg-2 to mpeg-4, Yuo should pay license fee" was my best part04:52
cehtehor broadcom may become convinced to release its specs04:52
Estel_wa sbets part*04:52
Estel_it's like "if You're getting rid of windows and installing linux, You should pay to redmond"04:52
cehtehthere is a completely unused DSP on the rpi too04:52
RST38hhw theora is like hw skype04:53
Estel_and only one camera interface connected ;004:53
Estel_RST38h, what do you mean exactly?04:53
cehtehthey just hunted for a cheap arm .. sadly its just the stepchild of that SOC :)04:53
RST38hthe format is so messed up by cool eleet software people that doing it in hw is problematic04:53
Estel_with the difference, that Theora is open and well documented, while Skyp is equally opposite04:54
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Estel_but overall, i get the point04:54
RST38hdoes not matter how well it is documented, unfortunately04:54
Estel_it's messe dup so much?04:54
RST38hwhat matters is whether they use snippets of their own C code in the format description document04:54
Estel_oh damn, i think i'm tired04:54
Estel_I mean "It's messed up *so* much?"04:55
RST38hlike Google does04:55
RST38hIf you cannot describe format without resorting to your particular source code, this means your "standard" is messed up04:55
Estel_so, AIUI, hardware decoding is hard because it would require work = money paid for programmers, not that it's undoable anyway?04:56
Estel_i.e. "standard" ahrd to follow?04:57
Estel_damn, hard04:57
RST38hSorry, but I am going to leave it to you to figure out why implementing arbitrary C source code in hardware is hard04:57
RST38hMake it your homework for today, ok?04:57
Estel_sure, I admit that I'm not specialist in this :)04:57
Estel_instead, I wouldn't ask, so I'll google for it with pleasure.04:58
DocScrutinizer05cehteh: n804:59
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Estel_o fuck, gcompris on Pi!05:01
Estel_Why i haven't though about that05:01
Estel_well, i know who will occupy my Pi when not used for HDMI out :)05:02
Estel_in fact, I'm starting to regret that we can't buy two, for now. Sounds like first computer for my son ;)05:02
Sc0rpiustwo ?05:07
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Estel_Sc0rpius, yea05:41
Estel_one for my 3 years old Son, and one for me. Both to play with, but in different areas ;)05:41
Estel_he is already using my N900 quite much, and - to say at least - dissapointed, when I have to do something on n900 at the same time ;)05:42
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Kowalczykhi. Ive seen a lot of screenshots with those 15 30 and this one with 15 30 60 in the bottom right corner: what is that?12:16
Kowalczykfrom N90012:17
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Kowalczykcant figure out what app or what it is12:28
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vi__Kowalczyk: it is a QBW (queen beecon widget).12:46
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vi__What it does, I have NFC.12:46
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Kowalczykok... thanks.. will check it out. need to figure out how to create icons and stuff. want to change the taskbar icon etc..12:49
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jon-khaKowalczyk that is sleeper widget
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zeq_laptop merlin1991: I'm seriously struggling to get a statically linked gcc cross-compiler built for scratchbox.  Do you have any pointers? Using "-static" in CFLAGS or CC fails to link ppl properly, so I tried using the --with-boot-ldflags=-static, but that seemed to have no effect. :(13:20
merlin1991zeq_laptop: freemangordon might have some pointers13:21
zeq_laptopyeah, he should be back around some time today13:21
zeq_laptopI spent a large part of yesterday setting up a 32bit chroot, and building the toolchain prerequistites.  It's a long process...13:22
zeq_laptopfrustrated at the end!13:23
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zeq_laptopfreemangordon: ping13:24
zeq_laptopI also seem to have somehow broken the garage git repo for the fennec project!?!  It was working, I was pushing the source tree, but it got stuck, since then git just sits there.  I tried cloning from the repo, but... silence.13:26
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TofeHi !13:33
zeq_laptopTofe: Good morning!13:33
TofeYep, it's 1:34PM in the morning here :)13:34
zeq_laptopIt's a Sunday, morning all day13:34
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Tofeexactly !13:34
Kowalczykjon-kha: aha.. thank you :D13:37
Kowalczykany good guide for changing icons? example for the menu/taskswitcher?13:37
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Tofehow does one debug a hildon status area plugin ? debugging directly on N900 seems a *bit* risky...13:39
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merlin1991Tofe: sb?14:06
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zeq_laptopis there a way to reinitialise the git repo of a garage project? do I need to email an admin, is there anybody here?14:07
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hiemanshuzeq_laptop: you want to do what exactly?14:14
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Tofemerlin1991: ah, yes, of course. With some printf, that could work well.14:18
zeq_laptophiemanshu: I can't pull/push to the remote repo since it got stuck.  I've no idea why.  It was working.  But there's nothing in the remote repo atm, so I thought it might be best just to reinitialise it and start again.14:18
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hiemanshuzeq_laptop: best speak to an admin then14:19
zeq_laptopmerlin1991: fixed the build, I needed to use " --with-host-libstdcxx="-lstdc++ -lsupc++ -lm"14:19
Tofebut does hildon-desktop load everything that is located in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop, or is there a config file to activate specific plugins ? I didn't find anything clear about that14:20
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merlin1991Tofe: there are .desktop files in /usr/share/ ... afaik14:25
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Tofeah ok, so I guess activating a plugin would mean "put the .desktop the right way"... I'll investigate that. Thanks !14:27
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Macerneed to find something to put ecomstation on14:42
Macer:) in soviet russie os/2 runs missiles14:43
merlin1991hehe half os, classic :D14:43
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Venemohi everyone14:46
VenemoEstel_: ping14:46
Venemoso, I hear the council had quite a party?14:47
Macermerlin1991: heh14:48
Venemois it true that they seized the community awards devices for themselves?14:48
Macerecomstation = os/2 ;)14:48
merlin1991Venemo: dunno how 5 guys could seize 25 devices14:48
Macerthere is a council?14:48
zeq_laptopI seem to have broken my scratchbox.  Is it normal for targets to get "mixed-up"; I have files from my "HOST" target in /lib along with my ARM libs...?14:48
Macermerlin1991: LOL!!14:48
merlin1991that't would require quite some explaining :D14:48
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Venemowell, 4 of the 5 guys applied for devices, and what surprise, they all got them too. at least this is what ZogG told me14:49
VenemoI'm unsure about the details.14:50
merlin1991so, uhm, we came to think of, yeah all in all it's better for the community if each and everyone of us gets 5 devices, you see, we're by the community and for the community so it has to be right? ...14:50
Macer25 N950s for 5 guys would be awful14:50
Macertotal soviet takeover haha14:50
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DocScrutinizer05damn, if only Quim had passed them their working tools prior to declaring the rest as awards14:51
Venemowell, the thing is that it feels bad when you are the judge of something that you also applied in.14:51
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merlin1991Macer: I think you'd enjoy aswell14:51
DocScrutinizer05they wouldn't have to apply for award "competition" and no harsh words14:51
VenemoI don't personally have anything against the council, but please get my point.14:52
MacerDocScrutinizer05 must be one of them :)14:52
zeq_laptopMacer: 25 didn't go to 5 guys.  There is dispute whether council members contributed to the community...14:52
Macerstalin's inner circle14:52
DocScrutinizer05Macer: ehß14:52
Macerwhile mother russia starves14:52
DocScrutinizer05Macer: elaborate!14:53
Macermerlin1991: LOL!14:54
ZogG_laptopVenemo: merlin1991 i suggest you to read the thread14:54
merlin1991ZogG_laptop: I read it, but at this point I'm only in for the comedy14:54
Macerso if 4 guys got them where did the other 21 go?14:54
DocScrutinizer05Macer: elaborate!14:54
MacerDocScrutinizer05: ?14:54
DocScrutinizer05[24.06.2012 13:52:10] <Macer> DocScrutinizer05 must be one of them :)14:55
DocScrutinizer05Macer: elaborate!14:55
VenemoMacer: you joking, or you really don't understand?14:55
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: the thing it's not funny14:55
MacerDocScrutinizer05: you are part of the council that horded all the N950s from awards?14:55
ZogG_laptopMacer: i know council is hard work but is not to mocl in faces that they are council, especially when it's pasted only month and they were choosen 5/7. But even this is not a point, they might deserve the devices, but not the way it was done14:56
Macerthere are no devices... the council just didn't want the community to know14:56
ZogG_laptopMacer: he is more reasonable than that =)14:56
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MacerZogG_laptop: in soviet russia phones are bourgeoisie14:57
Macerso the govt keeps them14:57
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it would be nice if you read at least parts where they answer us in thread (not personal attacks on each other with Arie and other guy)... it's quite amazing how they do that14:57
DocScrutinizer05Macer: please shut up! this whole topic is messed up enough without your nonsense14:57
Macerto protect the society14:57
VenemoZogG_laptop: link pls14:58
MacerDocScrutinizer05: don't get mad at me. i didn't "steal" awards and devices from the communuity :)14:58
DocScrutinizer05I'm stealing q from you if you continue14:58
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it's a long post with a lot offtopic as well =)14:58
MacerZogG did have a point. seems wrong that the judges were allowed to choose amongst themselves15:00
merlin1991hm whatabout "/topic $TOPIC | no more CA discussions, it's over" ?15:00
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i and few guys made nice point before but i would sugest to read from where itsnotabigtrucnk jumped in15:01
merlin1991I mean honestly it's too late to complain15:01
DocScrutinizer05that's quite obviously absolutely wrong practice15:01
ZogG_laptopMacer: than speak up, they just used that most people got silent15:01
Maceroh no need... i am not a developer and quite honestly have contributed nothing to the maemo community tbh15:01
DocScrutinizer05that's why I say "quim should have given them their 5 devices that traditionally belong to council, to do their 'job'"15:02
Macerother than using it ;)15:02
Macerbut yeah... judges who put their names in ... that seems a bit shady15:02
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: why would it be too late, i think if half community speak up, even if they do not go back, at least community would know how people are against. just now they think it's 3 people so they call us trolls and other use political oral skills to speak around problem with no straight answer. But we need people to see what actually happened there15:03
Macerespecially for someone who worked endless nights making somthing and didnt get one15:03
merlin1991ZogG_laptop: no we need to get a proper plan for post nokia so people one year in the future can actually care what happened here15:03
infobotmerlin1991 meant: ZogG_laptop: no we need to get a proper plan for post nokia so people one year in the future can actually read what happened here15:04
ZogG_laptopMacer: i think rzr itsnotabigtrunck or e-eyes deserve it more than self nominated people. as well as you can see for example e-eyes wanted n950 to support it with nitroid and there is no way he can buy one15:04
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zeq_laptopnitroid != maemo15:05
NIN101but tbh, nitroid isn't maemo.15:05
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: with no present we can't have future. it's wrong to let it go. you let it go once, it would happen again. check Russia situation now =) even meetings are forbidden =P15:05
vi__ZogG_laptop: nitroid is nothing but rouble,15:05
vi__N950 nitroid support? Wtf for?15:05
vi__It is barely supported by harmattan.15:05
vi__You are whinging like a butthurt child.15:06
ZogG_laptopzeq_laptop: actually dual boot that give you opportunity to run android apps on n9, as well as parts of bme he reverse ingineered =)15:06
ZogG_laptopvi__: you see, the way you talk and i talk are different15:06
vi__HOW could the council have won?  They were told by quim to choose winners.15:06
vi__ZogG_laptop: Yes, I don't hide my true meaning with platitudes.15:07
vi__If they are not alowed to enter the competiton then they could not win.15:07
ZogG_laptopvi__: everyone even those who want to let it go see that it's wrong, even council knew when they decided to participate, but still they wanted phones more to give a f15:07
ZogG_laptopvi__: let's say they were allowed and they were there, and i think inception made a lot of more contribution last year =)15:08
DocScrutinizer05vi__: please no offense15:09
zeq_laptopZogG_laptop: it was bad politics for sure, but the council members certainly had merit.  How can anything different be claimed?15:09
zeq_laptopThe wouldn't be the council if they weren't recognised as community leaders!15:10
Venemoso anyway15:10
ZogG_laptopzeq_laptop: my point was politics, but if we got personal. i see 5 councils choosen from 7 for 1 month, and people who worked all last year on harmattan and helped a lot on #harmattan as well and TMO15:10
VenemoZogG_laptop: go and have a part in the coding competition15:10
ZogG_laptopVenemo: it's not about me, i won in other competition, and i never told i deserve community award =)15:10
zeq_laptopanyway, I think I've managed to finish the linaro-4.7 scratchbox toolchain integration :)15:11
Macerdoes ecoach REQUIRE a net connection to track gps speed/distance?15:12
Maceri don't have a sim in it and haven't gotten a new arm band for my lumia 90015:12
ZogG_laptopVenemo: i don't feel doing anything after this... so last thing i'll do is wiki post i promissed woody and few guys and this is it ... =\15:12
merlin1991zeq_laptop: just watch out if you use qt with newer gcc, freemangordon ran into some bumps, but I don't remember the fix anymore15:12
DocScrutinizer05a) council *always* needs devices, otherwise they don't know their core topic b) sure throwing their hats into a competition they are the judges as well waqs a terribly bad practice c) NOW we can't do ANYTHING about it, as the incorrect behaviour already happened, damage done. d) when council acts stupid, it is useless to discuss merits and criteria of the award selection, we need to discuss why council didn't ask for **guidance**15:13
Macerguess i will find out by myseld15:14
zeq_laptopmerlin1991: I'll be sure to test it before letting it out in the wild :)15:14
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: they do ask in maillist, after there were few people on TMO telling it's not right. By telling that reasonable people on maillist and not at TMO. And i see the problem if you let it happen once it would happen more times15:15
zeq_laptopDocScrutinizer05: as I said, bad politics15:15
DocScrutinizer05council acted idiotic15:16
zeq_laptopone might even wonder whether the whole point of the "competition" was to sow seeds of division15:16
DocScrutinizer05it feels like15:16
ZogG_laptop/s/they/as you ignore me i'll send tru bot =). They/15:16
ZogG_laptop/s/they/as you ignore me i'll send tru bot They/15:16
NIN101" council *always* needs devices, otherwise they don't know their core topic " well, maybe N9 for all of them, or max 1. would have been a better choise, as there not more than 500 people with an N950, iirc. But meh.15:17
ZogG_laptophmm doesn't matter than15:17
Venemodamm. the council should've asked the community: "hey, is it a problem if we choose ourselves too?" the community would have voted: "no problem, sure" + everyone would've been happy that they're so honest and everything.15:17
Venemoend result would be the same, except we wouldn't bash them now15:17
DocScrutinizer05NIN101: debatable, yes15:18
ZogG_laptopVenemo: they mentioned it btw, but noone follows everything15:18
vi__Venemo: did you read the mailing list?15:18
VenemoI used to, but unsubscribed about a year ago due to it being kinda boring and unconstructive15:18
DocScrutinizer05Venemo: they should have told community "there Quim gives us 25 devices. 5 we'll keep for reference purposes at council, and use them. 10 we keep in a pool to hand out in case of "emergencies" to projects (e.g. when a device breaks and project gets stuck without replacement). The rest will be handed out to users we feel have merits and deserve it" period15:20
Venemothat would've been good too.15:21
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i think nokia decided what the award would be for15:21
DocScrutinizer05I don't think so15:21
ZogG_laptopi need to go now. =\15:21
Venemoanyway, this whole shit is exactly the reason why I didn't even care about community awards.15:21
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: few of awards are managed by qgil15:21
ZogG_laptopVenemo: that's why it's important as less devs would care about community =\15:22
VenemoI didn't participate in the community because I wanted a device. so anyway, that's ok with me.15:22
vi__Venemo: well a lot of people do and now they are saying some really shitty things on the forum.15:22
DocScrutinizer05not the award is the problem, the extremely stupidly acting council is15:22
ZogG_laptopthat was my point before they started to attack personally15:23
Venemoso anyway15:23
ZogG_laptopbut they choosed to answer those people who personal attack them =)15:23
VenemoI've read 13 pages of blahblah in that topic, and it has no use at all15:23
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DocScrutinizer05I have no objections whatsoever against council keeping devices - they need them. Alas they decided to put their merit on the benchmark, instead of plain stating "we need them, we keep them"15:23
DocScrutinizer05Venemo: exactly15:24
DocScrutinizer05the whole thread is exacerbating things15:25
DocScrutinizer05it makes _everybody_ feel bad15:25
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DocScrutinizer05triggers name calling, accusations, shouting and whining15:25
DocScrutinizer05and every semi-sane community member turning his back on the thread and possibly the community at large, while silently thinking "WTF?! ¼²¼€¹€@"15:26
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Macerlet me see if ecoach can work without a data connection15:28
DocScrutinizer05instead of asking "the old guys" i.e. the ex-council which are all around and more than willing to help, the recent council in their hybris decided to invent all new, enforce new rules, and do things their very own new stupid way15:28
DocScrutinizer05that's the result they get for that, and well it doesn't come by surprise15:29
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TofeDocScrutinizer05: that would be quite a nice way to organize it next time15:29
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_PanzerSajtHy! Can somebody explain me how TV-out works in N900? I'm interested in the kernel level and sysfs level. I'm asking this because I would like to find out whether TV-works on N900 with Ubuntu installed on SD card.15:34
vi__AN N900 QUESTION!!!!15:35
_PanzerSajtthis channel stands for n900 question, isn't it?15:36
DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: I'm not sure, but _maybe_ javispedro knows a bit about it. alas he's dropping by here really rarely during the last 4+ weeks15:36
Raimuvi__: RING THE NINE BELLS!!!15:36
DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: yes, sure. You're absolutely right in asking this question here15:37
_PanzerSajtok thanks ;)15:37
DocScrutinizer05it's a quite demanding question though15:37
DocScrutinizer05I admit I have no clue15:37
_PanzerSajtyes I know15:37
ShadowJK_PanzerSajt; i suspect it wont be plug and play in ubuntu. It's also interesting to note that when playing videos it's setup differently, as the content displayed on tv doesn't match what's on n900 :)15:38
_PanzerSajtI have already found some clues that it might work "out of the box"15:38
Venemowhy don't you just try?15:38
_PanzerSajtI was trying15:38
DocScrutinizer05yes, there are separate framebuffers and resolutions for TVout and LCD15:38
DocScrutinizer05and I think some worker-thread in kernel that does the scaling/copying15:39
_PanzerSajtso what I have found out already:15:40
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DocScrutinizer05raster knows a friggin lot about it, alas he's really not interested in N900 anymore15:40
_PanzerSajtunder ubuntu: /sys/devices/omapdss/ and there are two displays15:40
DocScrutinizer05yes, 2 displays15:41
_PanzerSajtdisplay 0 is enabled (lcd)15:41
DocScrutinizer052 "framebuffers"15:41
_PanzerSajtbut when I do the same to display1 nothing seems to happen15:41
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_PanzerSajtthere's a file called "enabled"15:42
_PanzerSajtand inside it show 1 for display015:43
_PanzerSajtand nothing for display115:43
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ShadowJKFor video atleast, the scaling and conversion is all hw15:44
_PanzerSajtDSP is working15:44
_PanzerSajtbut the sgx530 isn't15:44
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/15:45
DocScrutinizer05bus  display0  display1  driver  manager0  manager1  microamps_requested_vdac  modalias  overlay0  overlay1  overlay2  power  subsystem  uevent15:45
DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls /sys/devices/platform/omapfb/15:45
DocScrutinizer05bus  driver  graphics:fb0  graphics:fb1  graphics:fb2  modalias  power  subsystem  uevent15:45
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DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: yes, sure it's scaling and copying with the DSP/gfx-accel15:48
Venemook, here's my 20 cents on this mess. now let's move on.15:48
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DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: I suggest you repeat your question in a few (6?) hours. might actually be the wrong time for TZ like US15:52
DocScrutinizer05~seen raster15:52
infobotraster <~raster@enlightenment/developer/raster> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 92d 9h 4m 35s ago, saying: 'open is just a bonus'.15:52
_PanzerSajtDocScrutinizer, thanks for the advise15:53
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DocScrutinizer05I however know he's online. He _might_ be willing to help when you query him with generic OMAP3430 related question, esp when you refer to ubuntu and put no emphasis on N900 (there's beagleboard as well, with omap - btw also a channel where you could ask)15:54
Macerlumia 900 gps lock... 5s15:55
Macern900 gps lock... never15:55
Maceri have to go buy a new armband for my lumia 900.. the n900 just doesn't seem to fair very well without a sim for running15:55
_PanzerSajtDocScrutinizer, thanks for pointing out wider product range instead of only one device15:56
Macercan't work out with the n90015:57
Macerwell... running at least.. i should buy a heart rate monitor while i'm at it15:57
Gh0stywhy not15:57
Gh0styits heavy enough for lifting weights :p15:57
Maceri need it for running15:58
Maceri just took the damn thing outside for 20mins and it never locked for the gps15:58
Maceri just gave up.. i'm going to wait for the stores to open to see if i can find an armband that works with my lumia 90015:58
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_PanzerSajtRegarding GPS. Has anyone ever tried to attach a GPS antenna to the mainboard?
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_PanzerSajtDocScrutinizer, can you provide me some more details about / sys/devices/platform/omapfb/graphics:fb0; fb1; fb2 ?16:04
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DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: I *think* this should work16:06
DocScrutinizer05(attach external GPS ant)16:06
_PanzerSajtthat was my thought also16:08
DocScrutinizer05_PanzerSajt: the question is if you can reach the flimsy receptacle, and if you actually want to test the specified 100 mating rounds16:08
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DocScrutinizer05iirc Estel_is working on a new housing, with connector extenders and proper external receptacles. Maybe ask him16:09
Venemonew housing for what?16:09
Venemolol, for what purpose?16:10
DocScrutinizer05don't ask me, ask him16:10
VenemoEstel_, you've been asked16:10
DocScrutinizer05Venemo: check his tmo 'signature'16:11
VenemoI'd be interested in a thinner housing, without keyboard, and attaching a capacitive touchscreen16:14
DocScrutinizer05get a n9!16:14
VenemoI have one.16:14
Venemobut that way, I could use the N900 for hacking around with mer & nemo16:15
FIQ|n900argh :(16:16
FIQ|n900Venemo: I want the opposite for something like a N916:16
Venemowell, I still could, but it's inconvenient to use the resistive screen anyway.16:16
VenemoFIQ|n900, they have the same hw basically.16:16
FIQ|n900that's why I haven't bought it (no keyboard..)16:16
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer05; in Helsinki yesterday17:01
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infobotrumour has it, usbfix is - and **NEVER** use epoxy (unless you want to seal your device for underwater)17:22
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MohammadAGTwo N950 fatalities?17:25
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: wrong channel :P17:26
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MohammadAGhiemanshu: Oh17:29
MohammadAGhiemanshu: Which channel?17:29
hiemanshuMohammadAG: mhd17:30
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Macergame of thrones!17:46
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Macerdamn the blonde in game of thrones is hot18:06
Macerand i'm not a very big fan of blondes18:06
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merlin1991hm does rsync have any implementation like dd to listen for some signal to give me stats about the transfer?18:28
SpeedEvil  -v, --verbose18:29
SpeedEvil              This option increases the amount of information you are given during the transfer.  By default, rsync works18:29
SpeedEvil              silently. A single -v will give you information about what files are being transferred and a brief  summary18:29
SpeedEvil              at  the  end.  Two  -v  options will give you information on what files are being skipped and slightly more18:29
SpeedEvil              information at the end. More than two -v options should only be used if you are debugging rsync.18:29
merlin1991I was looking for some X mb to transfer left18:30
SpeedEvilrsync --progress18:31
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merlin1991hehe dl with 3,9 MiB/s from my server :D18:33
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Raimuvi__: Hey -- I was to ask, are you still using compcache on n900? What size/params did you settle on?19:09
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zeqFurther to the discussion a couple of days ago, I've been researching the different ABIs/ISAs on the Cortex-a8.  It turns out the performance difference between float-abi=softfp and float-abi=hard is around 40%, with a further 2x-3x(!) improvement of NEON over VFPv3.  An obvious downside of float-abi=hard, is to support it we'd need a multilib glibc build, interesting though, none the less.19:42
jacekowskizeq: well, it's expected for softfp to be slow19:44
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zeqsoftfp is a real FP ABI19:45
jacekowskiyeah, but with slow calling conventions19:45
jacekowskiand ability to fall back in case of lack of fp19:45
zeqin theory19:46
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jacekowskibut i don't see how neon would be faster than vfp319:46
jacekowskiunless you are doing something that can be optimised for simd19:46
zeqcortex-a8 doesn't have a real vfp319:46
zeqjust a cut down version, NEON being the primary FPU19:47
jacekowskiwell, i could understand a bit of difference19:47
jacekowskibut not 2-3x19:48
jacekowskiwhat is your benchmark exactly19:48
zeqSome devices such as the ARM Cortex-A8 have a cut-down VFPLite module instead of a full VFP module, and require roughly ten times more clock cycles per float operation.[32] Other floating-point and/or SIMD coprocessors found in ARM-based processors include FPA, FPE, iwMMXt. They provide some of the same functionality as VFP but are not opcode-compatible with it.19:49
zeqfrom wikipedia19:49
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zeqGenesi USA, Inc. did a proof-of-concept rebuild of Ubuntu karmic (9.10)'s armel port with the hard-floating. They noticed important wins (in the order of 40% performance improvement) in floating-point heavy applications/libraries such as mesa, with a Cortex-A8 CPU.19:50
zeqfrom the debian link ^^^19:50
zeqIt is also possible to use NEON instructions for regular scalar floating point code, and this can give significant (2-3x) speedup on Cortex-A8 hardware. However GCC does not currently implement this, and it is not always applicable as NEON instructions are not fully IEEE compliant.19:51
jacekowskihmm, if they are saying that vfplite is 10x slower than vfpv319:51
jacekowskiand you are saying that vfplite is 3x slower than neon19:51
jacekowskithen vfpv3 has to be 3x faster than neon19:51
jacekowskiwell but question remains19:52
zeqthat's the thing about benchmarks19:52
jacekowskiis it really important thing19:52
jacekowskihow many things use fp19:52
jacekowskion real phone19:52
zeqqt ;)19:52
jacekowskiif you have hardware 3d19:52
jacekowskithen mesa argument is gone19:52
zeqhildon-desktop is pretty heavy on FP, though as DocScrutinizer05 says, it probably shouldn't be.19:53
jacekowskisaying that19:54
zeqhtml rendering engines19:54
jacekowskii've got to go19:54
zeqdunno why though19:54
zeqok jacekowski, bye19:54
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Raimuzeq: Interesting.19:58
zeqRaimu: it'd be a major ABI break to support it20:01
zeqRaimu: it'd be a major ABI break to support it20:01
Raimuzeq: Yes, I can see that.20:03
zeqit's not at all viable to have everything multi-lib20:03
zeqnot on an N900 anyway!20:03
RaimuYep. Hence "interesting", not "dancing the jig in the rain".20:03
zeqshame Nokia didn't make it float=hard from the start20:04
RaimuProbably wasn't thought viable then.20:05
zeqmaybe it was for compatibilty for 3rd-party packages20:06
zeqsuch as the flashplayer20:06
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ShadowJKI think meego was one of the first to move to hardfp abi20:20
infobot[abi] Application Binary Interface20:21
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ShadowJKI think the biggest hw constraint on N900 is the ram size, so multilib type things are pushing it in that area20:23
ShadowJKand also having both gtk and qt is already pushing ram :/20:23
zeqfor maemo hardfloat is a non-starter.  it would work with easy-debain though.20:24
Estel_yea, but of course, best solution, would be to have device with more ram ;)20:24
zeqthumb is helping a lot with RAM20:24
Raimuvi_: API is app programming interface.20:24
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zeqmer should be quite a bit quicker than maemo then20:28
zeqthere is an experimental Hildon-Desktop Mer20:29
zeq(for the N900)20:29
zeqanybody tried it?20:29
Estel_Cordia, but it's going to be in beta stage around 2157, earlier20:29
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Estel_AFAIk 2 people work on them, and are quite uninterested in getting more help :)20:30
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Estel_sounds quite low for creating UI20:30
ShadowJKI think overall meegoce/nemo uses more ram :/20:30
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Estel_Nemo got many quierks, witohut any disrespect for people working on it20:30
Estel_IMO, it's less usable than hildon not only by advancement, but by design20:31
Estel_feel "dumbed down"20:31
zeqI've not tried it20:31
Sc0rpiusI agree20:31
zeqonly got the one devic20:31
Sc0rpiusNemo is not good.20:31
rzrEstel_, u're trying to make friends :)20:31
infobotzeq meant: only got the one device20:31
Estel_well, Mer hardware adaptation for N900 is better than for N9/N950 (!), but user itnerface is optimised for multitouch (!!)20:31
Sc0rpiusthe browser is unusable20:31
Estel_rzr, whatever You mean?20:31
Sc0rpiusyou can't zoom20:31
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Sc0rpiussince you don't have multitouch20:31
Estel_Honestly, Nermo feels like smartphone Ui, not mobile computer one. I.e "symbianish"20:32
rzrnothing personnal but the way you're kinda agressive  sometimes :)20:32
rzrwell nevermind , I was just teasing you20:32
Estel_rzr, I preffer word "sharp to the merit" ;)20:32
Estel_I know, noticed :DF20:33
rzrno problem20:33
rzrEstel_, are u in contact w/ xfade for obs ?20:38
rzrcan you estimate when meego's obs will be shut off ?20:39
rzrhaving a obs up and running for m5 would be awsome20:41
rzrbut this will cost lot of time and/or money20:41
rzri know someone who might be interested setting up a build farm20:41
hiemanshuzeq: thats the toolchain?20:41
zeqyep, that's what I've been working on20:43
zeqtesters welcome20:47
Macercontinuing game of thrones20:49
Macerepisode 5! wooo!20:49
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jacekowskirzr: question is, do you need a farm21:14
jacekowskirzr: i mean, for most of maemo building needs a single decent server will suffice21:14
jacekowskimaybe amazon cloud or something21:15
merlin1991since we were nemo bashing earlier, i totally agree that it feels dumbed down, it essentially is mer core + qt apps, but no desktop widgets or anything integrated deeply into the system21:19
merlin1991in other words iphone + concurrent processes21:20
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: does it run on n9?21:22
merlin1991afaik it does21:22
merlin1991I only ever used it on the n900 though21:22
merlin1991but as far as I understand it the only difference is orientation / resolution for the whole ui experience21:22
Estel_+ N9/N950 isn't fully supported by Mer (underlying deeper than Nemo, which is UI), at hardware adaptation level21:25
Estel_ironically, N900 is more supporte dby Mer than any device existing, yet, support from Nemo - aka UI - is worse21:25
Estel_I've been talking with Stskeeps about it, and I msut say that You can hardly blame Mer or Nemoi devs for that21:26
Estel_it's about Nokia ADHD and Intel betrayal, to say at least ;)21:26
ZogG_laptopbecause mer was reborn between maemo5 and meego =)21:28
ZogG_laptopand than after meego got dumped21:28
Estel_not exactly, but it's off-topic anyway, so I won't elaborate21:29
Estel_fact is, that now we have N9/N950 supported quite well, yet not fully, and supported by Nemo (despite being dumbed down interface)21:29
ZogG_laptophow is it offtopic? but whatever you want21:29
Estel_and N900 supported incredibly at hardware level, yet painful to use with Nemo21:29
ZogG_laptopas well as maemo5 and n900 have more open parts than harmattan and n9 and aegis =)21:30
Estel_no offense ZogG, dont ruffle feathers. i was just saying that whole story about why it's like that is tooo long to re-tell here21:30
Estel_ZogG, of course, but Maemo and Harmattan is quite unrelated to Mer21:30
Estel_generally, Mer developers were able to work on Mer on working hours...21:30
ZogG_laptopi don't care actually =) and no offense taken21:30
Estel_until apocalypses appeared in Nokia21:30
Estel_and Intel changed plans21:31
ZogG_laptopEstel_: as far as i know mer goes back in before n900 i think21:31
Estel_due to this, we're probably never going to see full hardware adaptation of Mer to N9 and N95021:31
Estel_sure, but it was quite different project21:31
ZogG_laptopand than again it was left and than developed again few times21:31
Estel_only once ;)21:31
ZogG_laptopyeah i know the current one has a lot of meego AFAIK21:31
Estel_well, technically, Mer is better than Maemo and it should work better. The problem is about higher level things, and overall, situation21:32
Estel_many people left after frebruary, etc21:32
ZogG_laptopthe problem is all about man power and patents =\21:32
Estel_brb, goin to buy some food ;)21:32
Estel_less patents, more man power :P (although, patents are PITa in many other cases)21:33
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ZogG_laptoppatents is like communism, it's good idea, but never comes true21:34
ZogG_laptopas people are still people21:34
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freemangordonwazzup guys21:50
ZogG_laptopguly: nice pic on your site =)21:54
freemangordonzeq: you've build gcc 4.7.1?21:55
freemangordondoes it work?21:56
freemangordonin CB21:56
freemangordonin SB21:56
zeqbetter than the 4.6 build21:56
freemangordonaah, so I noeed to follow the same procedure?21:56
freemangordonbetter as in?21:56
zeqthere were some problems with the 4.6 toolchain sb integration21:57
gulyZogG_laptop: self accredited artist :))21:57
zeqin particular with fakeroot21:57
freemangordonzeq: aah, yes21:57
freemangordonI am glad you are more knowledeable than me on toolchain builds, I done it by trial/error method :D21:58
zeqcan't stay around though... football21:59
zeqfreemangordon: one other thing, there was/is a problem on garage with the git repo being stuck, they're working on it.22:01
zeqI think i broke it attempting to push mozilla :/22:02
freemangordonmaybe after all it is better to use gitorious/github, garage will disappear in a couple of months22:02
zeqhas that been announced?22:02
freemangordonit is a part of maemo.org22:02
freemangordonyes, it has been announced22:03
freemangordonin one way or another22:03
zeqanother thing there needs to be a plan for22:03
zeqI'll set it up on github later22:05
freemangordonok. I'll make an account on github later22:05
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zeqfreemangordon: I forked an exisiting github mirror of mozilla-central.  Nice and easy :)23:43
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Macerwhy is the queen such a bitch to the princess? lol23:47
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