IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2012-06-25

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alex-RiD: hai00:50
RiDalex-, lol00:50
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RiDthe hell? that guy must be a stalker00:51
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* RST38h moos evilly01:12
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Macergame of thrones season 2 was awesome01:13
Macerespecially the ending with the dragon girl01:13
RST38hMacer: lots of HBO-style fan service, right?01:13
Macerbut it has a great story01:13
RST38hSex, gore, gays lesbians and midgets!01:13
Macerat least better than most of the tv trash out there01:13
Maceryeah haha01:13
Macerthe midget makes it worthwhile01:14
Maceryou forgot dragons ;)01:14
* RST38h somehow made it through the last Fringe season01:14
SpeedEvilThe midget was more awesome in the books.01:14
RST38hfucking shit, they could do better by using SCP articles as scripts01:14
Maceri stopped watching x-fringe after season 101:14
Macerit was meh01:14
RST38hSpeedEvil: The midget appears to be the only decent character in the whole cast01:14
Macerthe alternate universe crap was lame01:14
Macerout of episodes tho :(01:15
SpeedEvilI was introduced to the books by hearing a naked girl read it.01:15
SpeedEvilthe internet does wonderful things for literacy.01:15
RST38hThe whole thing?01:15
SpeedEvilJust the first couple of chapters.01:15
Maceraren't they like 800 pages? :)01:15
RST38hOn the other hand, the whole book appears to be one huge Shakespearean fanfic01:17
RiDRST38h the last Fringe season is ... uninteresting.01:17
RST38hNot necessarily in the bad sense though01:17
Maceranything past the 1st season sucked01:17
Maceroh wow... lots of undead walking about01:18
Macerthis poor bastard hahaha01:18
RiDi liked the episode with the girl that teased men to their car. then ate them01:18
* SpeedEvil wishes there were some decent sci-fi.01:18
SpeedEvilI've just been rereading Garret P.I.01:18
RST38hSpeedEvil: Try Dan Simmons01:18
RST38hSpeedEvil: Also try China Mieville01:18
SpeedEvilI don't like Ms Meiville.01:19
SpeedEvilToo depressing.01:19
SpeedEvilI mean on TV01:19
Macerwow.. that has got to be about the worst cg ever01:19
SpeedEvilThe Dresden Files got murdered01:19
RST38hSpeedEvil: He is a guy01:19
RST38hSpeedEvil: And never been on TV afaik01:19
Macerthe end of season 2 of game of thrones looked like a ps1 game01:19
* SpeedEvil points to Babylon 5 CGI.01:19
Maceryeah haha01:19
SpeedEvilIt was good at the time.01:20
Macerbabylon5 probablay did better01:20
SpeedEvilBut - it's looking kinda dated now.01:20
Macerbut the end of game of thrones was awful cg01:20
SpeedEvilI mean - Galaxy On Fire almost beats it at times. :)01:20
Macerhey.. back in the day they had to use model trickery ;)01:20
VenemoSpeedEvil, I wish there were some recent sci-fi-01:20
SpeedEvilB5 was entirely CG01:20
Macerlook at the old star wars movies... all that puppet and model trickery01:20
VenemoI mean, they killed all sci-fi series....01:20
SpeedEvilVenemo: you mean on TV?01:21
MacerSpeedEvil: it was one of the first to do it wasn't it?01:21
SpeedEvilMacer: Pretty much.01:21
Maceri thought that was a big deal when b5 was out01:21
RiDthe hell is b501:21
SpeedEvilBabylon 5.01:21
Macera 5s scene probably took like 3 weeks to render01:21
Macerusing sgi based stuff :)01:21
Maceryou can see they reused a lot of it01:22
SpeedEvilRiD: sounds about right.01:22
Maceri liked babylon 501:22
SpeedEvilMe too.01:23
Macerother than the cheesy acting sometimes .. it was a good storyline01:23
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SpeedEvilMore than just episodes, and then back to the original condition.01:23
RiDi liked shameless01:23
RiDbut that's no sci-fi01:23
Estel_equlibrium is msotly unknown, and good sci-fi - although cinema, not serial01:23
RaimuI didn't like Equilibrium that much.01:23
MacerSpeedEvil: babylon 5 started to go downhill after the shadow war ;)01:23
RaimuThen again, I was just recovering from my "hate The Matrix" phase. :D01:24
Macerand dont even get me started on that season 5 abortion01:24
SpeedEvilMacer: Crusade01:24
Macercrusade sucked so bad01:24
RaimuB5 Crusade was pretty darn abysmal.01:24
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Maceralthough.. if you watched west wing01:24
RiDthere are glitches i nthe matrix01:24
Macerit was bingo bob :)01:24
Estel_But, but, as per historical - I enjoyed Pillars of the earth much. i know, I'm not casual tv viewer, so it's probably too mainstream for You :D01:24
SpeedEvilIt took what was worst in star-trek, and what was worst in B5, then added them.01:24
Macerthat's the only other show i ever saw him in haha01:24
MacerEstel_: they only had 1 season :-/01:25
Macerit didn't rate well01:25
RaimuEstel_, there's a series adaptation of that?01:25
Maceri thought it was ok.. not great but good01:25
MacerSpeedEvil: yeah haha... that was crusade in a nutshell01:26
Maceras bad as bad gets ... it would have been good to see more technomage stuff01:27
Maceri always wished they popped back up in the original series but they never did01:27
Estel_hey, i'm glad pillars of the earth was one series!01:27
Estel_i don't like never-ending-series01:27
Estel_if it's like up to 13 parts, it's ok, like longer cinema01:27
Maceryeah but it's like they cut it off half way :)01:27
Estel_other become lost :P01:27
Maceromg lost was awful01:28
Estel_Macer, where Pillars of the earth was cut? 0_o01:28
Estel_it wa sbase don novel01:28
Estel_next aprt of this novel was 200 years later01:28
Maceryes. unless i missed something01:28
Estel_I hope you don't want to see 200 years of kingsbridge history :P01:28
Estel_in screen:p01:28
Maceri saw up to the part where she gave birth to the bastard child after the church collapsed01:28
Estel_BTw, they're making adaptation of continuation too01:28
Macerwere there more episodes or something?01:28
Estel_so you haven't seen whole01:28
Estel_missed 2 parts IIRC01:29
Maceroh.. i guess that explains it haha01:29
Maceri was like.... wtf? they cancelled it?01:29
RiDEstel_ a good example of never ending series, Smallvile01:29
Estel_no, it was both financial and critic sucess ;P01:29
Estel_haha, i'm glad I didn't saw it01:29
Estel_as said, i'm verypicky about seriales01:29
Maceri watched like 4 episodes of smallville01:29
RiD10 friggin seasons!01:30
Estel_Cinema - yes, series - no, most of the time. Except for exceptional ones01:30
Estel_(see Twin peaks)01:30
Maceri couldn't do repeating stories01:30
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RiDone series i liked very much was The Finder01:30
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Maceri never watched twin peaks either heh01:30
Estel_well, they've abused House unsanely01:30
Estel_i'm glad he told them GTFO01:30
Macergtfo? house01:30
Estel_Macer, must see it, it's not only classic - it still keeps those things :D01:30
Estel_actor playing main character ;)01:31
Estel_they wanted to do at leas6t 23547623573275672 seazons more, but he resigned01:31
Macerhouse did???01:31
Estel_so they cancelled :P01:31
RiDhe was getting od01:31
* Macer stares at NCIS01:31
Estel_actually, quite time ago01:31
Maceri got up to the one where he was going back to jail over toilets or something01:31
Maceri guess that explains why they were killing wilson haha01:32
Estel_RiD, no diea about the Finder, what was that?01:32
Estel_ah, some supernatural01:32
RiDnot really lol. I found it very nice to watch, it's a shame fox cancelled it01:33
Estel_honestly though, have anyone played Heavy Rain? I haven't as it got released only for awful consoles, but it looks like perfectly realized serie in a nutshell ;)01:33
Estel_Rid, i'm not criticizing, haven't seen it as said01:33
Estel_I just commented that he got supernatural powers01:33
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Maceri didn't know they cancelled house01:33
Estel_Macer, it was overdue few years, already :P01:34
RiDthe only thing i remember of heavy rain was the squared stroller01:34
RiD(on heavy rain)01:34
MacerEstel_: i suppose01:34
Maceri need to watch the last one then.. i never went back to it ;)01:34
Estel_Macer, as per Pilalrs, You've missed transforming kingsbridge into semi-fortress and villagers fighting back ;001:35
MacerEstel_: i totally forgot the entire storyline by now01:35
Estel_wort re-watching, from beginning to end. BTw, I msut refresh twin peaks01:35
Macerother than the family trying to become rich after their father was killed as a trator.. etc01:36
Estel_althohgh this one is quite unforgetable01:36
Macerand the bastard baby01:36
RiDi can't rewatch anything01:36
Estel_Macer, witch and her son was mroe interesting :D01:36
RiDor re read books01:36
Macerisnt twin peaks like.. a soap opera?01:36
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Estel_Macer, lol?01:36
Macerlike dallas or something?01:36
Estel_I would risk to say that 90% of people doesn't get twin peaks plot at all, so probnably not ;)01:36
Maceri always thought it was one of those everybody is rich 90s types of shows01:36
Estel_it's quite psychodelic01:36
SpeedEvilTwin peaks had a plot?01:36
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MacerSpeedEvil: LOL01:37
RaimuHow's Annie? Good night.01:37
RiD*spam mode* any mechanical keyboard user?01:37
Maceri have my old ibm keyboard still :-P with mechanical keys01:37
SpeedEvilI'm using an old IBM trackpoint keyboard.01:37
SpeedEvilBut it's not properly mechanical01:38
Estel_whatever You mean by mechanical keyboard01:38
Macerthe clickyclacky ones01:38
Estel_it is something that write without computer use? :D01:38
SpeedEvilIn the usual sense.01:38
SpeedEvilIt's similar to a thinkpad laptop01:38
Macerthat thing can get ran over by a car and still work haha01:38
Estel_heh, I got keyboard with big buttons.01:38
RiDI'm not of those times. I'm post 90.01:38
RiDBut erm, I want one01:38
Estel_no, keyboards with big buttons are much better and more comfortable for writing ;)01:38
Macerall newer keyboards use that lame plastic/rubber circuit board thing01:38
RiD^ exactly why i want to change01:38
SpeedEvilAt the moment, I'm using the keyboard under the blankets.01:39
Macermade in china01:39
SpeedEvilThe trackpoint is awesome for this.01:39
RiDmy microsoft have had it's time01:39
Estel_Macer, I bought mine for 5 $, It even got USB 1.1 HUB :D01:39
Macerthe ibm had actual mechanical keys01:39
Estel_and it's USB! :P01:39
RiDSpeedEvil that looks perv01:39
MacerEstel_: because it's made in a sweatshop ;)01:39
Macerprobably cost them $0.10 to make01:39
SpeedEvilRiD: I got into the habit over the winter, with no heating01:39
RaimuI have a buckling spring IBM keyboard, but I just shelved it a couple of weeks ago 'cause my spouse had a problem with the noise.01:39
Macerslave labor helps01:39
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Estel_no no, my keyboard got big buttons and it's "old style" for mopst, yet, it'sUSB with hub :P01:39
Estel_and got one awesome feat:01:39
MacerRaimu: heh.. eyah.. they clack really loud01:39
Estel_'\' key below 'Return'01:40
Macerbut they'll never mess up on you01:40
RiDI don't care if the keyboard is loud01:40
RiDall I want is to make it easier for me to type faster01:40
Estel_(and above ctrl)01:40
RiD120WPM and bottoming out every key sometimes is not cool01:40
MacerRiD: then just type more heh01:40
RaimuMacer: I loved the clickety-clack and the tactile perfection, but this generic USB keyboard is all right for now.01:40
Macerbelieve it or not i found that the MS ergo keyboards were actually pretty good01:40
Macercheap overpriced made in china crap... but still good :)01:40
Macerbut that's everything post 199001:41
RaimuYeah, it's kinda hilarious that a 1988 keyboard still works fine.01:41
RiDand *better*01:41
MacerRaimu: my parents have a stereo receiver from the 70s that still works.. and is better01:41
SpeedEvilI hated the MS natural keyboard01:41
Maceranything you buy nowadays lasts 5 years01:41
Macerthen mysteriously dies01:41
Macerchina keeping its business going01:41
RiDi hate that thing01:42
Macerthat's not an ergo keyboard01:42
RiDI'm not saying it is01:42
RiDthat's my keyboard01:42
Maceri still use a logitech keyboard from like 2000 heh01:42
SpeedEvilThough I have the one with the big enter01:43
Estel_my one have big enter01:43
Estel_and \ below enter and above ctrl :D01:43
Estel_it's epic for games, if someone doewsn't use WSAD01:43
Estel_I was using cursors for ages01:44
Estel_and writing on "mechanical" one is great01:44
RiDevery recent mechanical keyboard is so $ :(01:44
Estel_funny, because as said, I bought mine for 5$01:44
Estel_and it's still USB interface01:44
Estel_of course it was used01:44
MacerSpeedEvil: wow that thing is ugly01:44
RiDUSB doesn't mean it's better anyways01:44
RaimuThese guys bought the rights to the old IBM design, by the way:
Estel_its BTC, mine01:45
SpeedEvilMacer: Meh. Works well for my use-case.01:45
Estel_Rid, USb mean I can connect it to notebook or N90001:45
RaimuTheirs are replicas, apparently workable but a little cheap on the materials.01:45
Estel_while Ps/2 can't01:45
Macerlike i said .. ihave one of those giant ibm ones01:45
RiDEstel_ well, you're right there01:45
Estel_except for adapters, that doesn't work on more than 2 keys pressed at once01:45
Macerwith the clacking keys heh01:45
Estel_or even 101:45
SpeedEvilI have the above - with a USB adaptor.01:45
RiDlook at that website and their products01:45
Macerthe ones where you can remove the keys01:45
RiDeverything above 80 dollar01:45
SpeedEvilWhich works fine for multi-keys01:45
Macerthose things are classic01:45
merlin1991anybody know how to dump the tracker mime mapping database to a human readable format01:45
merlin1991or where it is even located?01:46
Estel_SpeedEvil, finding correctly working adaptor wasn't possible for me, so I was glad like hell when found my one01:46
SpeedEvilI've got abotu 5 I think.01:46
Macermerlin1991: hey... with talk like that you might win a dev award and get a free device!01:47
* Macer hides01:47
merlin1991Macer: good one :D01:47
RiDhiding isn't enough, RUN!!01:47
Macerget on the council and you win automatically! woooo!!01:47
Macer(HIGH FIVES!)01:47
RiDcustom keyboard 0$ :D01:47
merlin1991nah honestly I'm trying to debug why a cssu update for tracker removed the ogg/flac dataminig01:47
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merlin1991and my bet is on it got lost in the db, but I can't know for sure without actually checking that :D01:48
Macermerlin1991: you should worry more about going down .. hope people moved all that stuff by now :)01:48
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Macerpretty sure a penny pincher at nokia will notice it sooner or later01:48
merlin1991*not sure if mocking me*01:49
RiDevery keyboard i search on amazon with blue or brown switches are over 70 dollar01:49
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vi__I would like to bump the ban abill_uk thread.  Would this be in bad taste?01:50
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MacerOMG.. i'm watching the last house01:50
Macerwtf happened to kumar.. he is a fatass01:50
RiDkumar is cool on Harold&Kumar01:50
RiDtoo bad the last one ( A Very H&K Christmas ) sucked01:50
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Maceri only saw the white castle one01:51
Macermerlin1991: half mocking. half true. ;)01:51
RiDthe 2nd one has bottomless party and obama binladen bottom beard01:51
RiDInterested enough?01:51
RiD what's wrong with that keyboard01:53
robbiethe1stThe win button?01:53
trxwin button is not a problem01:54
trxf1 - f4 is :)01:54
RiDi don't see how people even like those keyboards01:55
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merlin1991hm the win button is the only one that makes sense01:59
merlin1991because it most probably toggles the mod4 or however the key is for the windows signed button01:59
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kerioswollen battery. throw away immediately? (y/n)02:06
SpeedEvilkerio: yes02:06
Estel_kerio, could You elaborate?02:06
keriogoddammit this is my second battery02:07
kerioand i need to swap them to charge them02:07
SpeedEvilkerio: wrap it in something, there is a nonzero chance it may catch fire.02:07
kerioSpeedEvil: it's not *that* swollen02:07
Estel_You mena that it become "bigger" thicker, than it should?02:07
kerioEstel_: yeah02:07
SpeedEvilkerio: Well - as long as you're happy with it gushing fire next to your genitals.02:08
Estel_from rpactice, I would except no more than decreased capacity, but if it becomes bigger and bigger, SpeedEvil is right, it may catch fire/explode/whatever02:08
kerioSpeedEvil: i'm at home02:08
kerioit's far away from my genitals02:08
Estel_You don't keep Your genitals at home?02:08
kerioEstel_: i don't keep them on my desk02:08
Estel_sounds reasonable :)02:08
Estel_the problem is with it seeding fire to Your house/desk, then02:09
keriostupid cheap batteries02:09
SpeedEvilkerio: you should get an ergonomic desk, so you can.02:09
kerioi don't think "ergonomic" means that02:09
Estel_docking station ;002:09
keriothis means that my phone is unusable during the night02:10
keriofun stuff02:10
kerioi can either buy a new battery or a new phone, i suppose02:10
kerioSpeedEvil: i have no way to repair mine02:11
SpeedEvilI would not be very worried if it was a nokia battery02:11
keriothe usb port is broken since like two years now02:11
kerioit's not02:11
SpeedEvilbut a third party battery is a bad thing.02:11
Estel_kerio, why not sending device for fix somewhere?02:11
keriothe nokia battery i have is *vaguely* firmer than it was02:11
kerioEstel_: like where?02:11
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Estel_kerio, from time to time, I have very good/ideal condition devices for 180 euro, WITH reinforced USB port02:12
Estel_all with foil on screen02:12
keriobut the galaxy s3 just came out!02:12
robbiethe1stGet a couple of those Japod/scud replacements; the ones with the same real capacity as the Nokia ones02:12
Estel_kerio, who care about android shit, lol?02:12
kerioEstel_: i know, i know02:12
keriobut it's a fucking quad core02:12
Estel_robbiethe1st, scuds and japods got bigger capacity02:12
Estel_kerio, nice, they can use fuckin quad core to encrypt spying on You02:12
Estel_and You can use fuckin quad core to play nagry birds and browse we b02:13
Estel_and check mail02:13
robbiethe1stWell, slightly.02:13
Estel_sounds like a deal02:13
Estel_robbie, scud was 1530 mAh02:13
Estel_it's no longer manufactured, though02:13
kerioEstel_: i'll probably end up buying a new n900, yeah02:13
Estel_well, the one I have from time to time are use,d by in very good/ideal condition. I'm reinforcing their usb ports myself.02:13
Estel_+ checking every sensor, etc02:13
kerioEstel_: shipping from where?02:14
keriohuh, it's not even that far02:14
kerioi'm in italy02:14
Estel_yea, postal inside EU, should be quite fast :)02:14
kerioEstel_: never had to deal with the italian mail service, huh02:14
Estel_at leats you know that it doesn't contain hidden malfunctions02:14
Estel_kerio, same for polish :P02:14
merlin1991Estel_: unless customs fucks you up again :D02:14
Estel_still, it's better than sending to USA or australia02:15
Estel_merlin1991, I'm bulletproof now :P02:15
merlin1991how? :D02:15
Estel_experienced earned :p02:15
Estel_I'm sending documents to customs every time I send package :p02:15
Estel_could kiss my ass now02:15
Estel_in fact, it seems that they've started to forward my packages without chercking, lol02:15
merlin1991srly with the eu and everything it should be easier02:15
Estel_maybe I should start smuggling opium02:15
keriohm, there's a used n900 for 31,50€ on ebay.it02:16
keriowith "software problems", he says02:16
robbiethe1stGet it!02:16
Estel_kerio, lol, so go and buy it. then report back what is it :P02:16
keriothe auction ends in like 10 hours02:16
Estel_I suspect broken USb OR non workling modem OR it's not N900 :p02:16
robbiethe1stI've fixed a couple through reflashing.02:16
kerioit's probably been overclocked into shit02:16
Estel_whats problem with it02:16
Estel_overlocking danger is a myth, unless someone keep it at 1000 or more.02:17
kerio"it locks up sometimes"02:17
keriosold as not working02:17
Estel_speedpatch, probably02:17
Estel_well, i rather expect gsm modem going retardish02:17
robbiethe1stI'd say it's likely fixable by reworking the voltage if it crashes at a certain frequency.02:17
Estel_robbie, either it's crap in software, or malfunctioning hardware02:17
robbiethe1st...Or just swap issues02:17
Estel_kerio, could You spare link?02:18
keriough, what link do i have to copy?02:18
robbiethe1stWell, seems to me that if you had a borderline N900 CPU, you might fix it by overvolting it slightly, to get it stable again.02:18
Estel_robbiethe1st, kp50 does it for You (in fact, 49 too)02:18
Estel_Sr stable for up to 900 mhz02:19
Estel_BTw, congratz on won N9 :)02:19
Estel_won/awarded, whatever02:19
robbiethe1stYeah, I saw that a couple days ago.02:19
kerioi could probably sell mine for like 100€02:19
Estel_welcome to the club of undeserving bastards :)02:19
keriobroken usb port, but everything else works02:19
robbiethe1stWhat surprised me was the lack of interest overall... there wasn't a whole lot of names on the applicants list02:19
Estel_kerio, quite possible02:19
Estel_then only 90 to get perfectly working one :p02:19
kerioEstel_: interested in a swap?02:20
Estel_robbie, TF02:20
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Estel_kerio, no way :D02:20
Estel_robbiethe1st, wtf?02:20
Estel_la;ck of interest?02:20
keriook fine, a swap and a bit of money02:20
Estel_we got spammed to heil by applications02:20
robbiethe1stI only saw like 60-80 names on the wiki02:20
Estel_kerio, no way, sell it somewhere :P02:20
robbiethe1stfor like 60 devices?02:20
Estel_robbie, for 25 devices02:20
robbiethe1stOh, well, still, same thing02:20
Estel_rest 75 was divided between qt5, nokia store, and CC02:20
Estel_60-80 is too much for me.02:21
robbiethe1stI recall the N950 giveaway... there was a /lot/ of applicants02:21
Estel_it was prize for god damnit contributions02:21
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kerioEstel_: let's say i wanted to buy a n900 from you02:21
Estel_well, we've dropped some idiots registered 4 months ago and doing 1 project, scavenged from javispedro work...02:21
Estel_and demanding N95002:21
Estel_it even started little flamewar on TMO ;002:21
Macerthey didn't just cancell house02:21
Macerthey totally killed him haha02:21
robbiethe1stwow, yeah02:22
keriothey did what?02:22
Estel_killed House (not actor playing him :P )02:22
robbiethe1st(also, I'm definitely in the undeserving bastard list. And I know it)02:22
Maceryeah haha02:22
keriooh, the finale of season 8?02:22
Macerdidn't see that happening02:22
Estel_kerio, so what about hyphotetical situation?02:22
kerioyeah, it was unexpected02:22
Maceryeah.. they totally killed him haha02:22
kerioEstel_: do you have one to sell now?02:22
Macerhis mail order bride was hot02:23
Estel_I can have in few days to two weeks max02:23
Estel_Macer, wtf bwas that about mail order bride? saw about 15 seconds of this episode02:23
Estel_when he was getting maried02:23
Estel_and said to her, that he don't sleep with married women02:23
Estel_nothing else02:23
kerioEstel_: for how much?02:23
Estel_180 euro + shipping02:23
MacerEstel_: yeah haha... he mail ordered her02:23
Estel_with reinforced USB, and every aprt chercked as thoroughly as possible02:24
Macerthat was pretty funny02:24
Estel_Macer, I though she's immigrant or whatever02:24
Estel_getting married to get green card or smth02:24
kerioEstel_: not anymore, she's got a green card now :D02:24
kerioMacer: saw the whole episode?02:24
Estel_erm, afraid to ask, but why he mail ordered bride?02:24
kerioit wasn't a mail order bride02:24
kerioit was... huh, right after he broke up with cuddy?02:25
Estel_nice to know that he was with cuddy at all ;)02:25
kerioshe was a prostitute, i think02:25
Macerkerio: yeah haha02:25
Macerkerio: no i'm still watching it02:25
Estel_still, why getting married? weedings suxx.02:25
Macerhe faked his own death ahhaa02:25
kerioEstel_: she gets a green card, he gets a housemaid+benefits in the time it takes for her to get the green card02:26
kerioand, like, money02:26
Estel_kerio, sounds nice, but afaik he dropped benefits. I know better ways to get housemaid than getting married02:26
Estel_not to mean doing cleanming on Your own :P02:26
Estel_I still think I preffer first 3 seazons :P02:26
keriohow should i dispose of this battery?02:26
Estel_eat it.02:27
keriomy first instinct is to throw it out of the window02:27
Estel_give it away to any shop selling batteries02:27
Estel_in EU, they're supposed to take it back02:27
keriosecond instinct is the general garbage02:27
Macerhe fell in love with her02:27
Macershe's hot02:27
Estel_Macer, watching last episode?02:27
kerioEstel_: never had to deal with *anything* in italy, huh?02:27
Macerat the end he found out like she was soviet scientist smart :)02:27
Estel_Macer, 0_o?02:27
Maceri miss the cold war02:28
Maceri'm still watching it02:28
Macerlast episode now02:28
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Estel_Macer, you know watching Tv eats Your brain?02:28
Macerso are they going to start up Chase MD now? :-P02:28
Estel_listen to Radio instead :P02:28
kerioso... new n900 or dumbphone+openpandora?02:28
Estel_kerio, openpandora sounds like machine for gaming, mostly. And if You can have something of this size...02:29
Estel_You could as good buy notebook/netbook02:29
Macerjust don't get a chromebook02:29
Estel_anyway, if You're interested more than hyphoteticaly, don't forget to tell me, so I can start searching for it ;002:29
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kerioi'll get to you tomorrow02:30
keriowell, today, but after i sleep02:30
Macerhaha... the black dude knows he faked his death02:30
Macerhe left his id in his office on purpose02:31
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kerioMacer: wow, you really know the characters well huh02:31
Maceri'm bad with names.. foreman?02:31
Estel_and what happened to soviet green card hottie ;)02:31
Maceri remember wilson because hes awesome ;)02:31
keriohmm, there's an auction for a n900 ending in two days02:32
Estel_well, i liked sense of humour of staff themselves02:32
keriowasn't there a revision where they made the usb port stronger?02:32
Estel_when hot redhead turned blonde, and asked house about new look...02:32
Estel_he answered that she looks like prostitute now02:32
Estel_which was, in fact, entirely true02:32
Estel_I bet someone from staff got this idea ;)02:32
Estel_kerio, in facty no revisions02:33
Macerthe soviet russian mail order bride was gorgeous02:33
Estel_some got it normal, i.e. can fell off02:33
Maceris gorgeous02:33
Estel_and some got it fucked up i.e. cold solder point i.e. it will definitelly break02:33
vi__kerio: not really, they all sucked.02:33
Estel_Macer, i don't care, just tell me what happened to her :P02:33
keriogoddammit nokia02:33
Macerthat was a lame ending still tho haha02:33
MacerEstel_: er... she is fine i suppose02:33
Macerthey split up02:34
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Estel_no nuclear war starting? :(02:34
kerioMacer: did cuddy appear at all? i forgot02:34
Estel_what a shame02:34
Macerno :(02:34
Macerkerio: no heh02:34
Macershe was the only one02:34
Macerwonder what happened to that woman.. even his ex wife popped up .. the one from like the first seasons02:34
Estel_BTw, I just bought genuine, perfectly working BH-214 (in ideal condition) for ~10$ including shipping02:35
keriomeh, lisa edelstein probably just got bored02:35
Macershe was pretty hot for an older woman02:35
Estel_I wonder why people ever buy more expensive ones02:35
Estel_it got everything You expect from bluetooth adapter, heh02:35
Macerlisa edelstein isn't that good of an actress to just be "bored"02:35
kerioEstel_: i have a pair of behind-the-neck earbuds02:35
Macershe was in what? west wing for like 4 episodes.. then house for like 5 years?02:35
Macerin west wing she was a whore :)02:35
kerioanyway, definetely going to sleep right now02:36
Estel_definitelly good night ;)02:36
keriothanks for your advice, guys02:36
Estel_no problem, just doesn't throw Your batgtery into general garbage :p02:36
Estel_vi_, you old scum, welcome to club of undeserving bastards :D02:36
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Estel_we should found our own piratebay02:36
Estel_sail ho!02:37
Maceris vi__ part of the N950 thieving council?02:37
* Macer hides again02:37
Estel_yes! he is supreme Councilor!02:37
Estel_or was he chancellor, in fact02:38
Estel_when vi_ rises his hand, lighning sparks come out02:38
Estel_Macer, btw, you're joking, or really believing those BS?;)02:39
Maceri'm teasing02:39
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Estel_damn, infobot doesn't listen to me :(02:39
infobotEstel_ meant: damn, infobot does listen to me :(02:39
Estel_heh, sometimes, it does02:39
Maceronly to correct you02:39
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infobotHoogah Hoogah wah wah *takes of the box* *dances around showing of the cpu and memory* Ah yeah you likey my little HD no?02:40
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Maceri'm just messing with them.... i'd scam free N950s too if i could :)02:40
Macerpower to them02:40
Macernot like those other developers are going to do much with them anyways02:40
Estel_the funniest thing, is that councilors applying folr devicews were discutted at april02:40
Estel_and everyone encouraged them to02:40
Estel_then, it was raised at TMo, and only geneven made some on liner about it, others were "OK"02:41
Estel_then, when some 4 months old "members" diden't receive device, 4 other people started shitstorm on forum02:41
Estel_quite funny02:41
Macerheh.. i thought the awards were for development contribution?02:41
Estel_not to mention ZogG, who said that annoucement on mailinglist, TMO, wiki, and IRc is not enough, as not everyone is supposed to know what is hap[pening inside Community, LOL02:41
Estel_Macer, nope.02:41
Maceris there some way to quantify it? like... is it lines of code?02:41
Estel_Ca was for community Contributions02:41
Maceror like... someting else?02:41
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Estel_75 devices were for coders02:42
Estel_25 for community contributors, as per general involvement02:42
Estel_aka Community Awards02:42
Macerso whoever kissed the most developer ass? :)02:42
Estel_I don't get You.02:42
Estel_what developers does have to do with it?02:42
Estel_forget developers in conjuction with CA02:42
Estel_developers doesn't exist.02:43
Macerwell... you sai 75 for devs and 25 for... whom exactly02:43
Macerwhat defines contribution?02:43
Estel_well, freemangordon, merlin1991, i02:43
Maceri should have gotten one.. i'm in #maemo all day :)02:43
SpeedEvil25 for mortal men, doomed to die.02:43
Estel_iDont and other like that received it02:43
Estel_due to involvement in Community02:43
Estel_SpeedEvil, yea :D02:43
Estel_Macer, i';ll drop You a link02:43
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Macermaybe i can get one based on irc logs for "most blabbering idiot on irc"02:44
Maceri wouldn't care... as long as i got an N950 someone can call me an idiot :)02:44
Estel_Macer, see this02:44
Estel_everything explained there02:44
Estel_Mace,r it was posted on news, on mailing list, on TMO, on IRc, everywhere. no way You could have missed it :D02:44
merlin1991even in here :D02:45
Macerheh... i was out of it after n900 #2 broke ;)02:45
Macerhow many council members got devices?02:46
Macer4 of... 50?02:46
Macer:) i'm guessing #5 already had like 3?02:46
luke-jrare winners announced?02:47
Macerluke-jr: you didn't get one.. you're not part of the council!02:47
luke-jrMacer: :<02:47
luke-jrwhere's the list?02:47
Macerlol... i think they took you off the list because of gentoo!02:47
Macergo flame!02:47
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RiDmy little clone has left. It's time for me to abandon this ship02:48
RiDwait what i pressed close02:48
Estel_luke-jr, list was announced on news, on TMO, and on mailing list02:48
Estel_i.e. winners02:48
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luke-jrhmm, I missed it somehow02:48
Estel_i.e. anywhere, where communtiy Members tend to hang02:48
Estel_already, 4 days ago02:48
Estel_or 502:48
Macerluke-jr: you might have won02:48
luke-jrstill don't see it02:49
Macerthere were 21 devices left after the council got their fill02:49
Macerfor the mere mortals02:49
Estel_Macer, don't overdo teasing, or someone may took You for serious02:49
Estel_gor example, ZogG02:49
Macerall 75 developers got theirs ;)02:49
Macerif ever there were that many heh02:49
Estel_he even tried to beg quil for stopping sending devices, lol. funny guy.02:49
Macerstop sending devices? :)02:50
Macerwow... sounds like he was rather butt hurt02:50
Macerwhere is the tmo announcement for the winners?02:50
luke-jrwell, looks like either it wasn't sent to ML or I got unsubscribed somehow…? :/02:50
Estel_he assumed that 4 morons on TMO is enough to make Nokia stop sending devices to freeman, merlin1991, iDont, robbiethe1st, me, vi_ , ivgalvez, and others02:50
Estel_Macer, first post of flamewar02:51
Estel_then, few people congratulated winners02:51
Estel_and 4 trolls started breakfast02:51
Estel_and it got 40 pages in 3 days02:51
Macermeh... i am sure the council members put in quite a lot of work on things02:51
Estel_You can't imagine how much, imagine trying to do consensus02:52
Estel_for awarding 25 people02:52
Estel_with 60 applicants02:52
Estel_or so02:52
Estel_5 people were to agree who should get device, and who not02:52
Macer21 :-P you can't count awarding yourself haha02:52
Estel_research their contributions...02:52
Estel_(many applicants were barely known)02:52
Maceri should have applied :)02:52
Maceri wouldn't have won but still :)02:52
Macermaybe i'd win the "raffle" phone02:53
Estel_thin chances, as you're absent on mailing list, TMO, only here, on IRC :)02:53
Maceri hate mailing lists and tmo02:53
luke-jrEstel_: so the voting was biased against IRC?02:53
Estel_we could award You with Nokia 110002:53
Macerhttp ruined the world02:53
Estel_luke-jr, not exactly.02:53
Macerluke-jr: LOL02:53
Estel_I was rather thinking about fact, that Macer didn't have a clue what's happening i nthe Community for last half year or so02:53
Estel_which he admint on his own :p02:53
Macertmo is only good to read the actual article... and skipping all the replies :)02:54
Estel_Macer, some good development is going there to, for example, CSSu or ekrnel power02:54
luke-jrEstel_: PM02:54
Estel_or saera, lately02:54
MacerEstel_: heh... i guess.. i read a few things and it turns into stuff like the 21 device flame war02:54
Maceronly things worth reading were by robbiethe1st02:54
Estel_that one too02:55
Macerplus.. irc is real time ;)02:55
Macera web browser is for me to buy stuff or look for information.... i rarely use it for interacting with people02:56
* luke-jr wonders if all the original N950 loaners are now owned02:57
Maceri wonder if the most interesting man in the world got an N95002:57
Macerlaughing it up with monks while talking on his N95002:57
Macerinside jokes with perfect strangers02:57
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LaoLang_coolHow to set up a compiling env to compile simple c program on n900?02:59
LaoLang_coolWhat pkgs do I need?02:59
Estel_LaoLang_cool, scratchbox03:00
Estel_Macer, dalaj-lama?03:00
LaoLang_coolI can't compile even the hello.c03:00
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LaoLang_coolEstel_, I'm newbie, don't know scratchbox, do I need to install it? there isn't a pkg named scratchbox03:01
LaoLang_coolI'm learnging programming in C from the beginning03:02
Estel_no idea, I never used scratchbox :)03:03
ShadowJKdo you really mean "on N900"?03:05
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ShadowJKin that case, scratchbox is not the answer03:05
LaoLang_coolShadowJK, yes, on n90003:05
LaoLang_coolNot on a pc03:05
ShadowJKbuild-essential from sdk or sdk tools repo... but it'll eat up diskspace on / like crazy03:06
ShadowJKdunno if there's enough03:06
LaoLang_coolI want to compile the simplest c program, for example, hello.c03:06
SpeedEvilBest to stick int on a chroot03:06
SpeedEvilthen it works just fine03:06
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LaoLang_coolI don't need complicated compiling enviroment to built a complicated program03:07
LaoLang_coolI tried to install gcc-4.6, but it warns no stdio.h found03:07
ShadowJKgcc and libc-dev probably03:07
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Estel_anyone know how to be sure that microSd card is genuine sandisk class 4?03:11
Estel_or how to determine being genuine or not while buying?03:11
LaoLang_coolShadowJK, thanks, will install them03:11
Estel_I would like to finally buy 32Gb class 4 card for N900, but I'm sick of all not genuine ones, priced as genuine03:11
ShadowJKSandisk class 4 will benchmark like Kingston/Transcend/A-data/etc class 10 :P03:12
ShadowJKatleast from before they bumped the class ratings lol03:12
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ShadowJKEstel_; go to, find a store or where to buy link.03:13
ShadowJKif prices elsewhere are significantly different, it's probably fake03:13
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SpeedEvilBuy from actual vendors.03:14
SpeedEvilNot sellers on ebay or amazon03:14
* ShadowJK wonders if sandisk has their own store on amazon03:15
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SpeedEvilI have my own store on Amazon.03:15
RiDwhat do you sell.03:15
RiDbooks may contain your private data such as fingerprints that can later be used to accuse you of a crime you haven't commited03:16
Estel_ShadowJK, thanks a lot03:16
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Estel_any way to determine if card is from before they've bumped class ratings?03:17
Estel_i'msearching for best card to use for booting different Os'es, and for swap03:17
Estel_reportedly, SanDisk class 4 were kings03:17
ShadowJKEstel_; the old ones carried no class rating adverising, but the cards with a C4 on them were advertised as "Mobile ultra". The new cards come in "normal" colourscheme and a dual colour scheme, the dual colour being the faster variety.03:18
Estel_ShadowJK, any ideas on SDXC performance re random I/O?03:18
Estel_ShadowJK, I see03:19
ShadowJKI should order a 4gig of each of the new varieties to see if they suck now03:19
Estel_ShadowJK, wait, microSDHC with dual-colour scheme?03:20
SpeedEvilSSD class SD would be awesome03:20
Estel_or dual-colour is only package?03:20
SpeedEvilwith decent random write03:20
Estel_or adaptor?03:20
Estel_ShadowJK, SDXC have unsane adverttised read/write speed, but it's bulk, of course03:20
ShadowJKI do have a "Class 4 32g" on order from a reputable vendor, but it's been back ordered two weeks now, I suspect they dont actually exist03:20
Estel_I wonder, if it's like class 6 and 10, i.e. at expense of random03:21
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ShadowJKi think card itself is dual colour03:21
Estel_OK, will search for it03:21
Estel_I suspect they've also rised price with those "ultra" :/03:21
Estel_BTw, isn't SDXC from 64 GB up?03:21
ShadowJKthe old C4 were "Mobile Ultra". about 80 bucks for 32g. The old c2 32g were probably half that price03:22
Estel_Eh, it's pity that we can't use compact flash :P03:22
ShadowJKbut i might remember wrong03:22
Estel_I would put it into mugen-sized cover03:22
Estel_ShadowJK, any way to actually determine SD interface max speed (not card max speed)?03:23
Estel_I wonder if, in "distant future" when one of flash-killer techjnology come to live, we have chance for super fast Sd form factor03:23
SpeedEvilThere are already pretty super-fast ones03:24
Estel_but i suppose that even RAM in microSD form wouldn't work as fast as it should, due to Sd interface limitations03:24
SpeedEvil200 megabytes/s IIRC03:24
ShadowJKuh, sd interface max speed doesn't change between cards03:24
SpeedEvilIt does somewhat.03:24
Estel_ShadowJK, I mean, erm, our sd card "port"03:24
SpeedEvilSome cards have different numbers of pins03:24
RiDmy stupid harddrive barely gets 70MB/s03:24
SpeedEviland some support 1.8V mode03:24
SpeedEvilyou only get >50MHz clocks at 1.8V mode03:24
Estel_ShadowJK, I mean, lets imagine RAM persisting without voltage applied, in form of SD card. Then, what is the limit of our itnerface?03:25
SpeedEvilRAM would be murderously slow as SD.03:25
SpeedEvilIt would make sense for swap03:25
SpeedEvilbut little else.03:25
Estel_well, swpa is what concerns me, but, why it should be slow for sd?03:25
SpeedEvilI mean - compared to system RAM03:26
SpeedEvilI would like a microSD with a gig of RAM and the rest flash03:26
ShadowJKi think my n8x0's sd is overclocked to 48MHz? is that right..03:26
Estel_yea. why? sd interface limitations?03:26
SpeedEvilEstel_: Pretty much03:26
Estel_and how to determine those limits? even rough estimations?03:26
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SpeedEvilEstel_: Even the slowest RAM interface beats the fastest SD by a _large_ margin03:26
Estel_of course03:26
Estel_by orders of magnitude03:26
Estel_that's why I'm asking about actual max speed of Sd interface :)03:27
Estel_can't find this info anywhere03:27
ShadowJKAlso sd has a large command overhead, so you need to transfer in larger blocks03:27
SpeedEvilI vaguely re,member I read the driver code, and found 25MHz03:27
SpeedEvilWhich would equal 12.5mbytes/s or so max03:27
LaoLang_coolShadowJK, I've installed libc6-dev and gcc-4.6, but gcc-4.6 hello.c says: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory03:27
SpeedEvil- which I actually hit with one card03:27
LaoLang_coolwhat's wrong?03:27
Estel_SpeedEvil, 0_o, so 40 MB/s read/wriote SDXC cards are for nothing?03:27
SpeedEvilEstel_: No, they won't work at that speed03:28
SpeedEvilEstel_: you can never get >50MHz (25M/s) in the n900, as it doesn't support 1.8V SD voltages03:28
SpeedEvil(from memory)03:28
Estel_I know that it's for selling them, but I can't belive that they're struggling to make it faster (60 MB/s, etc), without reason03:28
Estel_I see03:28
SpeedEvilOh - they work in some things03:28
SpeedEvilNot the n900 though03:28
Estel_but it at least work in other devices?03:28
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Estel_any idea to "overclock" this 25mhz limit in N900?03:29
Estel_ShadowJK mentioned about overclocking it in n8x0?03:29
ShadowJKheh, maybe 48MHz patch is why I'm burning up sd cards in my n8x0 on a semi-annual basis..03:30
RiDsomething in my head tells me that's going to burn03:30
SpeedEvilShadowJK: In principle, overclocking can lead to the regulator in the card overheating, or current limiting03:30
SpeedEvilI should read up on that, but I don't have a card that's likely to hit it03:31
RiDWe could do a sd barbeque03:31
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Estel_and what's the all fuzz about Sandisk "extreme"03:33
Estel_labelled as "1"03:33
Estel_can't find info if it's faster for both random and bulk, or not, on damn sandisk site03:33
Estel_looks like bulk read/wrtite nonsense03:34
Estel_95 MB/s03:34
Estel_16GB max03:34
SpeedEvilThat'll go at 12.3M/s or so on n900 as stock03:35
ShadowJKi get about 20Megabytes/sec read speed on n900 emmc03:35
SpeedEvilShadowJK: odd03:36
SpeedEvilI've never seen >1203:36
SpeedEvilsame as SD03:36
SpeedEvil- SD+MMC = ~2003:36
ShadowJKyeah I only get 15-16 on uSD because my swap is there and I can't stop swap activity interfering with read03:36
SpeedEvilIs this n900?03:37
SpeedEvilHave you overclocked this?03:37
ShadowJKit's all stock03:38
ShadowJKtweaked ioscheduler03:38
ShadowJKecho 2048 >/sys/block/mmcblock*/queue/nr_request03:38
SpeedEvilMMC is reading ~20 on this device03:40
SpeedEvilI am 99.999% sure it was only ~13 on my prior03:41
ShadowJKI was pretty sure it slowed down over time on my prior03:41
Estel_ndisk website all sdhc ultra re labeled as class 6 actually03:42
Estel_I wonder if it's boosting class of 4 one03:42
Estel_or that are crappy class 6 ones with slower random03:42
* RST38h moos03:43
RST38hEHLO ShadowJK03:43
luke-jrLaoLang_cool: Gentoo ;)03:43
SpeedEvilhey RST38h03:44
ShadowJK11M / 12M on N810.03:46
ShadowJKalmost 14M with sceduler tweak and cpu frequency lock (mmc clock or something tied to cpu clock, iirc)03:49
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SpeedEvilNot bad.03:50
ShadowJKiirc on N8x0 there's only one sd interface, multiplexed by a nokia chip03:50
cehtehmaybe thats why my n900 is so slow on parallel access .. they forgot to remove that code :]03:56
SpeedEvilMine doesn't slow down at all, oddly03:57
SpeedEvilwell - ~10%03:57
SpeedEvilOr at least the previous one - not benched this one03:57
Estel_ShadowJK, SpeedEvil, what You would suggest as standarized, repeatable way of measuring SD card random I/O speeds?03:57
Estel_on TMO, there is a threrad, that try to gather informations about best practices for testing cards for OUR purposes03:58
SpeedEvilgnu dd large block sizes03:58
Estel_I/E bulk speed mentioned only as curiuosity, not determining factor03:58
Estel_random, random :)03:58
SpeedEvilthat's complex03:58
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Estel_that's why I'm asking ;)03:58
SpeedEvilmount an ext2 partition, and compile gcc on it03:59
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ShadowJKthat's a good one:)04:01
ShadowJKi use coffemug rebench with: -t stateless -d 60 -b 4k -s 4k -w rnd -o write04:03
Estel_thanks a lot04:05
Estel_will try it04:05
Estel_looks genuine, doesn't it?:P04:05
Estel_especially this almost-splashed painting04:05
Estel_photo of same card:04:06
Estel_less than 20 usd :P04:06
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SpeedEvilAt that price, you'll want to run badblocks -w over it a few times, and dd random files to fill the space and compare04:09
Estel_of course :p04:10
Estel_I was rather joking04:10
Estel_although, the funniest thing, is that it looks genuine, after all (yet used = probably weared out like hell)04:10
Estel_Sandisk partner vendors have those cards for less than 40 usd04:11
Estel_and that is price shown on 2nd photo04:11
Estel_(99 pln)04:11
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Estel_it seems, that he's just selling used card, with proof of purchase from genuine sandisk parnet (still, expecting wear like hell)04:12
RST38hEstel, you talk too much.04:13
Estel_RST38h, You're silent too much ;)04:14
Estel_whatever You're drinking, enjoy it, anyway04:14
Estel_looks like fake?04:17
ShadowJKi think that's supposed to be genuine04:17
Estel_without number under size? 0_o?04:17
Estel_"serial" or how it'scalled04:17
* Estel_ nod04:18
Estel_refference image04:18
Estel_could be prepared without serials04:18
Estel_the truth is, that chinese folks ave very good at faking serial numbers too04:18
Estel_so look is quite useless :/04:18
Estel_either need to buy from "where to buy" partner (almsot 40 USd for 32 Gb class 4) or half the price, bt with risk04:19
infobotEstel_ meant: either need to buy from "where to buy" partner (almsot 40 USd for 32 Gb class 4) or half the price, but with risk04:19
Estel_anyway, it's quite good price04:19
Estel_even the higher one04:19
Estel_older C4, as you described them, are 40 USd including shipping04:20
Estel_idea for fun project - backcover made (almost) only of 32 Gb cards04:21
Estel_pity, that it can't be paralleled, like batteries ;)04:22
* RST38h yawns04:23
RST38hOk, the 32GB class 2/4 SanDisk uSDs are geniune04:23
RST38hI have no idea about ultras, sorry04:24
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RST38hBut the normal class 2s/4s are present at SanDisk site, they have got part numbers, and I even bought one at RadioShack04:24
ShadowJKclass 4 used to be called ultra04:25
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ShadowJKI have a suspicion they just bumped the ratings, 2->4, 4->604:25
RST38hno, ultras are a different breed04:26
RST38hI have not seen uSD ultras though, just regular SDs04:26
RST38hBut they claim faster-than-class speeds04:26
Estel_the thing is, if bulk speed is gained by sacrificing random I/O speed in ultras04:27
ShadowJKI've seen mobile ultra before, but they were always rare in the period when sandisk didn't advertise or market class ratings on microsd04:27
Estel_(i.e. dual-color ones)04:28
RST38hSHadowJK: Not rare in the US, just expensive and Estel is right about speeds04:28
ShadowJKseems like it's divided into 3 categories now:
RST38hDunno if they actually sacrifice random access speeds, but their claims are mostly about bulk speeds, for photography04:28
* Estel_ nods04:28
Estel_fun thing is that they claim it for android toys too, as per hd recording and such stuff04:29
Estel_everything bulk04:29
RST38hdon't see why not04:29
Estel_well, it's about fact, that once again i'm searching for *older*product, because all available new ones focused on everything except usability for real stuff04:30
Estel_same apply for mobile computer with Phone function - had to replace my N900's motherboard two days ago...04:31
ShadowJKseems like they claim the extreme version is good for multitasking04:31
Estel_cause even N950 coming to me, let alone N9, is close to be half-as usable04:31
Estel_ShadowJK, noticed that, but I don't belive it @ 40 MB/s speeds04:31
Estel_good benchmark above everything, unfortunately, nowhere to be found.04:32
RST38hShadowJK; Whatever they optimize, it still comes down to 48MHz over 4 wires04:32
RST38hShadowJK: So, I would take their claims with a grain of salt04:32
Estel_well, i'm negotiating with that guy with used one - if he sell it to me for 15 USd, I'm taking the risk, for 32GB card its ok. After all, he is local one, and give guaranty on, at least, lack of bad blocks04:32
RST38hMMC+ will give you 8 wires and 96MHz though, but we are not talking MMC+ here04:33
Estel_and what about CF and it's claims?04:33
Estel_reportedly, faster ones, but of course bulky and I've no idea about random I/O there04:34
ShadowJKWell I'd be happy with 1M/s random write04:34
ShadowJKmore than happy04:34
Estel_of course.04:34
Estel_it would be heaven04:34
ShadowJKcurrently it's about 16k/s on my sandisk mobile ultra card04:34
Estel_BTw, lately, I did sd card mod for my wrt54gl over GPIO, and i'm happy with 800 KB/s of bulk speed :D04:35
ShadowJKwhich is about 4 times faster than Kingston class 6 card...04:35
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Estel_it's much easier, when it comes to hard drives04:36
Estel_rotating speed, buffer speed and size, + size overall, and You're done...04:36
ShadowJKseagate for crunch crunch crunch, samsung for chukka chukka chukka, wd for whirrrrrrRRRR buzz buzz04:37
ShadowJKatleast maxtor supported the "please be quiet" and "please go fast" commands04:38
ShadowJK(but really needed a "please don't die" command more)04:38
* RST38h always preferred Quantum04:39
RST38hfor whuuuuuuuuuuuuush04:39
SpeedEvilMy first hard drive.04:39
SpeedEvil(not actually mine, but same model)04:39
SpeedEvil- wierd noises04:41
utanapischti<--- st20504:44
Estel_lol, ShadowJK, nice one04:47
Estel_It reminds me of someone who written program for amiga...04:47
Estel_To play "el condore di pasa" on Amiga's floppy drive04:47
cehtehhaha yes i had that :)04:47
Estel_...including some sounds being generated by actually *hitting* head at the border. Prolonged usage resulted in de-calibration of head :)04:48
Estel_(floppy head, not user one)04:48
Estel_cehteh, heh, I had amiga, but not this program04:48
Estel_Amiga 600, actually04:48
Estel_well, people who destroyed commodore - does they remind You of someone? :)04:48
Estel_or maybe Commodore remind some company?:P04:48
cehtehi made a program that when you slapped with the hand on the desk it made the screen shake04:49
Estel_even there, whole world =- despite lack of common internet, etc - known that they're killing it04:49
Estel_and it sensed it by what?04:50
cehtehtook mouse input from the hardware and randomly repositioned the screen start positions on the hardware too04:50
Estel_AFAIk amiga's havent' had accelerometer?04:50
Estel_pre-accelerometer :)04:50
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cehtehthat was around '90 ;) yes people where baffed04:50
Estel_yea, i remember those fools using atari, and wasting 30 minutes to load game from TAPE, lol04:51
cehtehand shifting the screen was damn simple as the whole amiga was in sync with video hardware04:51
Estel_killer-joke - accidentaly plug the power cable, when they were on 29 minute04:51
* Estel_ nods04:51
cehtehdont worry at 29:30 comes the read error anyways :)04:52
Estel_well, i had my amiga without HD, and I remember programs written in Amos04:52
* cehteh remembers his first amiga harddrive04:52
Estel_I remember changing 12 diskettes of a program ;)04:52
Estel_due to lack of hd04:52
cehteh40MB .. came with 512KB RAM extension04:52
Estel_well, i had 2MB of RAM extension for amiga itself, but not HD04:52
cehtehand costed 2500 german marks ..04:52
Estel_go back in time, and show Yourself N900 with 32GB +32Gb on microSD card04:53
cehtehmaybe it was 2MB ram extension or 1MB .. cant remember04:53
Estel_amiga 600, 500, or 120?04:53
cehteh500 1000 and later 300004:53
cehtehcant really remember04:54
Estel_well, someone booted open amiga Os version on RPi04:54
cehtehi have an old 320MB harddrive in the cellar which may hold some old work i did on the amiga then .. if it still works04:55
Estel_it's a pity, that amiga emulator doesn't work well on N90004:55
cehtehbut i dont have a scsi controler for that04:55
Estel_either too slow, or, like UAE-4ALL doens't support changing disk, lol04:55
Estel_unfinished, as everything, what's touched by Smoku04:55
Estel_heh, SCSI :)04:56
Estel_almsot forget about that04:56
Estel_and those mouse connectors, resembling VGA computer video one04:56
Estel_hm, i remember vagule some adaptor to use PS/2 mouse too, or maybe it was other way around?04:56
SpeedEvilyou may mean serial mice04:57
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robbiethe1stHey guys, does anyone know about ReplayGain on the N900?06:55
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robbiethe1stLike, some way to provide a volume-compensation value on a per-track basis to the stock media player(potentially with a custom module/addon)06:57
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keriodoes anyone actually use the date picker you get after removing the battery for too long?09:05
kerioi mean, i just tap "ok" and then connect to the internet and run ntpd -d09:07
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zeqfreemangordon: The fennec repo is now at
zeqfreemangordon: When you have your account setup let me know and I'll add you as a collaborator.  I've pushed the SetHighAccuracy and QtSensors prefix patches.09:20
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zeqfreemangordon: something's wrong with the libstdc++ in my toolchain build :( (missing symbols)10:50
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DocScrutinizer05zeq: I recall FMG had a problem with malformed symbols in latest gcc, [when compil(ing|ed for) thumb]11:57
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zeqDocScrutinizer05: You can build gcc --with-mode=thumb which results in the toolchain libs etc being built as thumb, default is to build as ARM, which is what I did.  Something went wrong with the linking of stdc++, I'm investigating...12:02
zeqGenerating a sb-linaro-4.6-2012.06 toolchain now, maybe I'll have more luck with that12:03
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zeq4.6-2012.06 seems ok12:08
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zeqlooks like a different bug12:10
zeqDocScrutinizer05: I think something must have just gone awry with th 4.7 build12:11
zeqI can't believe linaro would release a broken g++ compiler!12:11
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DocScrutinizer05here's another link:
DocScrutinizer05no clue if it's even related, just felt like pointing you at it12:13
zeqIt's probably because I used the sb-toolchain-extras from the darcs repo (following the scratchbox guide) rather than the (much newer) latest stable tarball.12:15
zeqwhich is what I just did for the working 4.6 build12:15
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: two logs you are pointing to are one and the same problem, but with reverse order, i.e. first link is the solution, second - the problem :)12:16
zeqfreemangordon: hi12:16
zeqas just mentioned ^^ I have a working linaro-4.6 toolchain, the 4.7 one from yesterday isn't working for c++12:17
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: quite possible, and hi!12:17
freemangordong++ abends or what?12:17
zeqlibstc++ is missing symbols somehow12:17
zeqexact same config (except imported with a different sb-toolchain-extras) built 4.6 fine12:18
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vi_Goodmorning gentlemen.12:18
zeqI'm trying 4.7 again now12:18
freemangordonzeq: which symbols?12:18
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: another topic: do you feel like I'm generally averse about your thumb hacking?12:18
zeqfreemangordon: I think most of them12:19
freemangordonwait for google to translate averse :)12:19
zeqstd::istream for example12:19
DocScrutinizer05~dict averse12:19
infobotDictionary 'averse' (1 of 4): abhorrent, afraid, allergic, anti, antipathetic, at odds, averse to, backward, balky, contrary, cursory, differing, disaffected, disagreeing, disenchanted, disgusted, disinclined, disobedient, displeased, forced, fractious, hating, hesitant, hostile, ill-disposed, indisposed, indocile, involuntary, loath, loathing, mutinous, not charmed, opposed, perfunctory, perverse, put off, quailing, recalcitrant, recoiling, ...12:19
vi_I think infobot dictionary is full of shit.12:20
vi_He meant:12:20
zeqfreemangordon: the fennec repo is ready for when you give me your github username :)12:20
freemangordonvi_: yeah, got it12:21
vi_'Do you think I ama hating when you be rolling on the thumb2 blunt homey?'12:21
freemangordonzeq: thanks12:21
freemangordonunfortunately I have to suspend fennec for a while, until I fix some packages (KPS and wireless-compat)12:22
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: TBH I don't know what to think12:22
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freemangordonBut in general I assume you are12:23
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I adore your work, I'm just playing advocado diaboli when it comes to deploying stuff to generall unwashed masses12:23
freemangordonyeah, i know that12:23
vi_So much bromance in here.12:23
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: your second name is The Negatron Man :P12:24
DocScrutinizer05maybe :-D12:24
vi_zeq: Kernel-power-settings.12:24
zeqah ok12:24
DocScrutinizer05I can live with that, you need those old farts as well12:24
vi_zeq: A script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc.12:24
zeqI use it to undervolt ;)12:25
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I can live with you being a negatron man too, after all I am doing whatever I want :devil:12:25
DocScrutinizer05~KPS is kerneöpower-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc.12:26
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay12:26
vi_zeq: I do not use it.  It has a funky bug that is very hard to trigger that most do not believe in the existence thereof.12:26
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DocScrutinizer05infobot: no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc.12:26
infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay12:26
freemangordonvi_: I was thinking to enable SR for kernel-cssu by default (in /etc/pmconfig)12:27
zeqfreemangordon: if you push your fennec patches I can work on it when I have a little more time12:27
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how typos creep in on c&p12:27
freemangordonzeq: I don't anything usable so far :(12:27
freemangordons/ anything/ have anything/12:28
infobotfreemangordon meant: zeq: I don't have anything usable so far :(12:28
zeqfreemangordon: whatever you have is something to work from, email me it if it's easier12:28
freemangordonI was on the seaside during the weekend, so nothing changed12:28
freemangordonzeq: ok12:29
freemangordonwill do it in the evening12:29
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freemangordonzeq: but i'd rater clone that on github and do a MR12:30
DocScrutinizer05~no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc.12:30
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freemangordonI don't know how to ask git to email a patch and not interested to learn :)12:31
DocScrutinizer05~literal no, KPS12:31
zeqfreemangordon: whatever suits12:31
* freemangordon is afk12:31
infobotDocScrutinizer05: thanks12:31
zeqvi_: so what's the KPS bug?12:32
vi_freemangordon: I think that may be unwise without considering if KPS sets it to 0 before applying new settings.12:32
zeqfwiw I'm using SR without problems12:32
vi_If someone were to set 250->1000 with SR@1 there be instareboots.12:32
zeqvi_: probably for the best ;)12:33
vi_zeq: Sometimes KPS will spazz out and start causing ~7000 wakeups per second and keeping the CPU out of C4.  This kills the battery in ~6 hours.12:34
vi_Only some people have reported this happening though.12:34
zeqhow weird12:34
vi_The only way to stop it from happening is to apt remove KPS.12:34
zeqMy battery is getting worn out but it still lasts all day12:35
vi_Admitedly this was KPS from ~1 year ago.  Things MAY have changed since then.12:35
vi_Either way, I prefer not to use KPS and just 'echo' my values to the relevant /sys/ entry.12:35
vi_And set most stuff from /etc/pmconfig.12:35
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vi_zeq: Yeah I use SR all the time as well.12:36
vi_zeq: It rulez.12:36
DocScrutinizer05I'd really like to see hard numbers12:37
zeqAdvantage of KPS though is it does allow a fallback if a stupid value was set to default12:37
vi_zeq: But there again, 'xterm' is my favourite app!12:37
vi_zeq: correct.12:37
zeqmine too12:37
DocScrutinizer05how much in mA avg it does, on a 'normal' system12:37
vi_zeq: My soultion:12:37
vi_Dont be stupid.12:37
vi_DocScrutinizer05: We do not agree on this one remember.12:37
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: Do you believe in undervolting?12:38
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DocScrutinizer05you might not agree on me liking to see numbers :-D12:38
Lava_Croftits not a religion12:38
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vi_DocScrutinizer05: That is less volts==less power used.12:38
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Ok, I guess a good test would be:12:39
DocScrutinizer05vi_: yes, that's absolutely right12:39
vi_1. Read mAH12:39
vi_2. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes12:39
vi_3. Read mAH12:39
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vi_4. Enable SR12:39
vi_5. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes12:39
vi_6. Read mAH12:40
DocScrutinizer05SAME mp3, at SAME volume12:40
vi_7. Compare12:40
vi_DocScrutinizer05: obviously.12:40
vi_DocScrutinizer05: It would be an invalid test if ANYTHING other than SR was changed.12:40
vi_Yay science.12:40
Lava_Croftsomewhere, there is someone who just knows this shit12:41
vi_ DocScrutinizer05> vi_: yes, that's absolutely right12:41
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DocScrutinizer05yeah, we still fail to agree on disagreement12:42
vi_^either you are playing the longtroll or you must concede taht as less volts==less power used therefore; less power used==a lower mA.12:42
DocScrutinizer05I'm just interested in quatity of the effect12:43
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DocScrutinizer05nobody doubts the basic effect is true12:43
vi_I do not have numbers at the moment but surely you must acknowledge:a=b AND b=c therefore a=c.12:44
Lava_Croftis it that simple?12:44
DocScrutinizer05I think I don't need to comment this12:44
vi_That was not a bollean AND by the way.12:45
* DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if enabling SR might cause CPU overhead for switching regulators12:46
* DocScrutinizer05 ... and/or increased power consumption for transfer of commands via McBSP2(?)12:47
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DocScrutinizer05but that's not exactly been my question12:47
DocScrutinizer05I just said, I'd like to see numbers, so we all know what we're talking about. No need for believe and religion in here12:48
vi_I will write a bloody script to do this.12:48
vi_You get your numbers see.12:48
vi_The numbers wont lie12:49
vi_Then you will12:49
DocScrutinizer05many thanks!12:49
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vi_N900 will be in offline mode, screen off at half volume with headphones plugged in.12:50
vi_No other programs running.12:50
Lava_Croftreboot inbetween?12:50
vi_1 hour MP3.12:50
zeqjust for fun, and to get the numbers since that seems to be the theme, I'm thinking about building a multilib softfp+hard glibc.12:51
vi_Lava_Croft: I cannot see a need for a midway reboot.12:51
Lava_Croftnever hurts to reboot inbetween two benchmarks12:51
zeqassuming I can fit it on my rootfs12:51
Lava_Croftrun both mp3s after a clean boot and system has eased down12:51
vi_zeq: have you not heard? eMMC is the new rootfs!12:51
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: oh yes, please keep screen off, it's controlled by ALS, this will spoil results12:52
zeqvi_: wouldn't that require a reflash?12:52
vi_Lava_Croft: Sure, Ok.  The MP3 will be played 10 minutes after a reboot in offline mode.12:52
vi_zeq: Nah, just a shitload of symlinks!12:53
Lava_Croftvi_: not to annoy you, but just to make sure nobody can point a finger at anything:)12:53
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Lava_Croftmake sure the planets are aligned too12:53
Lava_Croftand cut up a goat12:53
vi_Lava_Croft: There WILL be pointing, but I assure you it will not be fingers.12:53
Lava_Croftlooking at TMO, theres not much boners there to point with12:54
Lava_Croftok, getting silly12:54
vi_The scripcantation will be performed in a pentagram of N900s joined by a token ethernet ring.  Each point shall be lit with the flaming candle of an N810 notification LED.12:55
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vi_Lava_Croft: are you Lava_Croft from tremulous forums?12:56
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Lava_Croftused to be, yes12:56
DocScrutinizer05Lava_Croft: if we want to go for the real thing, then you need a reboot before *each* test. Or we assume the system has reached a steady state regarding any such effects, after 2 or 3 days uptime, and playing 60min mp3 won't change it much. If you want to make sure you can do A, B, A, B tests and confirm your numbers for A1,2 and for B1,2 match12:56
Lava_Croftim tremulous furniture12:56
Lava_Croftvi_: tremulous forums are a bit of a dark place tho12:56
Lava_Croftno idea what it looks like nowadays, i must admit12:56
vi_Lava_Croft: Hellish.12:57
vi_The whole game went to shit.12:57
vi_There are no decent servers anymore and all the admins are f******12:57
Lava_Croftthe game is fine, ive been with it nearly since its inception12:57
Lava_Croftand servers and admins are not the game12:57
vi_Lava_Croft: agreed,12:57
Lava_Croftever heard of SatGNU?12:57
vi_That is a US server innit?12:58
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Lava_Croftwe ran a rather gestapo-administrated server from 200612:58
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vi_I recognise the name.12:58
Lava_Croftgames were fine there, but you had to act like a goddamn gestapo officer to keep people in line12:58
Lava_Crofttremulous is kind of dead tho12:58
DocScrutinizer05vi_: oh, and please disable phone12:59
Lava_Croftnone of the original devs really care anymore, and if they care, its only because they are annoyed with tremulous12:59
vi_bwahaha, just thinking about trem made me press 't' in order that I may 'speak'12:59
Lava_Croftsad story tho, tremulous gameplay is still unique for a free game12:59
DocScrutinizer05network/recamping can massively spoil your power consumption numbers12:59
Lava_Croftheh, pressing T to talk has been an annoying 'error' since Quake12:59
vi_DocScrutinizer05: obviously, phone will be in offline mode.12:59
Lava_CrofttYou always end up like this13:00
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Doing NOTHING but playing the MP3.13:00
vi_DocScrutinizer05: I may appear to be totally green but I am no cabbage.13:00
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Lava_Croftcabbage comes in several colours13:00
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DocScrutinizer05vi_: just an idea: maybe playing mp3 is more workload on DSP than on CPU13:01
DocScrutinizer05SR might have more impact on e.g. numbercrunching13:01
zeqDocScrutinizer05: he's using mplayer, don't worry :)13:01
DocScrutinizer05depending on whether DSP profits from SR same way as CPU does, or not13:01
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DocScrutinizer05zeq: ok :-)13:02
vi_Lava_Croft: I got banned from my favourite server in the end anyway.13:03
vi_Lava_Croft: I stole all the admin GUIDs and started 'fixing' things.13:03
DocScrutinizer05vi_: never tought you're a vegetable. Just trying to pick up the pieces, to help13:04
Lava_Croftvi_: oh, you are that person?13:04
vi_DocScrutinizer05: twas a joke.13:04
Lava_Croftbad behaviour to wreck people's house after they decide they dont want you in their house:<13:04
vi_Lava_Croft: yup, THAT person.  (unless of course you are referring to the only other person to have done that)13:04
Lava_Crofti could be13:04
Lava_Crofti dont know who that other person is13:04
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vi_Lava_Croft: Oh god, You should at least know the story before you condemn.13:05
Lava_Croftvi_: was it your server13:05
Lava_Croftwhere you got banned from13:05
Lava_Croftcase closed then.13:05
Lava_Croftlets not discuss shit like this anyway, i mean come on13:05
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Lava_Croftthose people dont deserve the attention :D13:05
vi_Well I WAS left in charge by the server admin.13:05
vi_WHo went absent.13:05
Lava_Crofti have a simple rule: If its not your server, then dont bother13:06
vi_He also left another kid with the same admin lvl.13:06
Lava_Croftwhat server was it13:06
vi_into the wild.13:06
vi_The other people get power mad.  Rise up and remove the admins.13:07
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Lava_Crofti solved that by just handing out the max admin level to everybody13:08
Lava_Crofton the official servers13:08
Lava_Croftyou had friends giving admin status to friends etc etc13:08
vi_Then you have kickban wars.13:09
Lava_Crofti never stuck around for that shit13:09
vi_Well, I was a victim if the kickban wars.  SHould have walked away.13:10
vi_The only other guy to do this was a guy from the 'one' clan.  He is possibly the one you are thinking of, he went around fucking things up for everyone on EVERY server.13:10
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Lava_Croftwell, there was a multitude of ways to fuck shit up on tremulous servers13:11
Lava_Croftlike spamming the servers with fake clients13:11
Lava_Crofttrem's original dev also is an n900 lover13:12
Lava_Croftalmost got him to port trem to n90013:12
Lava_Croftbut thankgod he didnt bother13:12
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vi_heh, it has been suggested that it could be played as a ioquake3 mod with GLES.13:12
vi_I even offerd a $50 bounty for the first person to do it once.13:13
Lava_Croftprobably wont run that well13:13
vi_Back when I gave a fuck.13:13
Lava_Croftsame goes for Darkplaces, the Quake engine port13:13
Lava_Crofttremulous would also be unplayable on n90013:13
Lava_Croftoh boy, dear tremulous13:15
vi_Lava_Croft: you could be a builder.13:15
Lava_Crofti wonder why i still regularly play that game13:15
Lava_Croftvi_: yes, the only option basically13:15
vi_Lava_Croft: Every team needs a good builder.13:15
vi_Lava_Croft: Also fucking cheaters.13:15
Lava_Crofti can say that without question there is no tremulous player who has been building longer than i have :)13:15
Lava_Croftquestionable honour13:15
vi_Lava_Croft: The other reason I no longer play that shit.13:15
Lava_Croftoh, barely any cheaters13:16
Lava_Croftand if they cheat but still suck, i dont mind13:16
Lava_Croftthese days people play GPP, the 1.2 GamePlay Preview13:16
Lava_Croft'these days' meaning past 2 years orso13:16
Lava_Croftvi_: you are a euro, right?13:18
Lava_Croftnice, a briton13:18
Lava_Croftwhat server did you always play on?13:18
Lava_Croftdont think the servers we/you used to play on still exist13:19
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vi_TBase->pornserv->various unnamed russian servers->POC clan server->into the wild (25 ping!)13:19
Lava_Croftah yes13:19
Lava_Croftthe Twins' server13:19
vi_I suspect...13:19
Lava_Croftthese days there's two 'official' servers13:20
vi_...They were not really twins.13:20
Lava_Crofti know13:20
Lava_CroftT-Base was the place where all the drunk polish people went to after they got banned from SatGNU13:20
Lava_Croftchances are we played together quite a few times, heh13:21
Lava_Croftsmall world, small world13:21
vi_More than likely.13:21
Lava_Croftyou might have even been using my builder binds!13:21
vi_In fact certainly, I have seen your name.13:21
Lava_Croftwell, my nickname is 'old'13:21
vi_Not likely broski.13:21
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Lava_Croftaw, you should have13:21
Lava_Croftselecting buildables with mousewheel is good13:21
vi_Lava_Croft: I had the MOST convuluted badass binds setups ever created in trem.13:22
Lava_Croftmost folks just copied my binds13:22
Lava_Croftand edited those:)13:22
Lava_Croftthe whole thing with binds was a whoefully unbalancing affair anyway13:22
vi_read this and weep.13:22
zeq4.7 is good now :)13:23
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zeqI'll put up both 4.6 and 4.713:23
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Lava_Croft5 year older post than yours, heh13:24
DocScrutinizer05zeq: call for topic?13:24
zeqDocScrutinizer05: are you asking what I'm on about?13:25
DocScrutinizer05zeq: or rather - call "OT"?13:25
vi_Lava_Croft: Older, certainly.  Insanely over comlicated, definatley not!13:25
Lava_Croftwell, they were complicated probably because you were new to quake configs13:25
DocScrutinizer05zeq: no, I'm asking if you mind the OT convo13:25
Lava_Croftmy Quakeworld configs also were ridiculous13:25
vi_Sorry guys, we awere just getting a collective nostalgia boner.13:26
zeqoh, I'm happy to leave them to it13:26
DocScrutinizer05no problem13:26
Lava_Crofthey, i still play tremulous! but we shall stop now:)13:26
Lava_Crofti was getting a somewhat questionable feeling about it anyway:)13:26
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DocScrutinizer05no, go ahead unless somebody calls "OT"13:26
zeqit's better than the seemly never-ending saga about CA13:26
Lava_Croftat least its no negative whining about whatever is happening on TMO13:26
Lava_Croftyes, haha zeq13:26
Lava_Crofti think OT should matter the moment someone has something OT to talk about13:27
Lava_Croftso that actual OT talking does get littered with random stuff13:27
vi_~tmo is trolls, morons and oligarchs.13:27
infobotcannot alter locked factoids, vi_13:27
Lava_Crofttmo is like any open source-ish community13:27
Lava_Crofta lot of religious people with a lack of ability to see things from any other POV than their own13:27
vi_Lava_Croft: But with more butt-hurt.13:27
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zeqnew toolchains are up:
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zeqbe warned, they're big13:32
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zeqnot sure why they're as big as they are actually... ??13:32
DocScrutinizer05zeq: please add a line what's the supposed new properties and purpose of those toolchains13:33
zeqDocScrutinizer05: principally, they contain lots of bugfixes.  also they have working LTO,graphite,vectorization,improved thumb support13:34
DocScrutinizer05there are like 270 users here wondering "should I download those instantly now?"13:34
Lava_Croftits newer so it must be better13:34
zeqit is better ;)13:35
DocScrutinizer05yeah, but WHO will use them, for WHAT?13:35
zeqfor CSSU-T13:35
zeqif nothing else13:35
zeqthe current CSSU-T toolchain was rather hacked together, no offense freemangordon13:35
DocScrutinizer05for *building* CSSU-T13:35
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zeqcan be used for non-thumb too obviously13:36
* DocScrutinizer05 hears 250 users switching chan13:36
zeqthey can be dropped straight into /scratchbox/compilers13:37
zeqafter unpacking13:37
DocScrutinizer05ok, that's nice background info13:37
zeqcreate a fresh target and away you go13:37
DocScrutinizer05zeq: thanks13:38
zeqjust looking into why they're soooo big13:38
DocScrutinizer05usually missing strip13:38
zeqokay 26M of docs, doesn't help13:39
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petteri so will cssu be faster with the new toolchain, or what?13:40
zeqanything you build with the new toolchain *might* be faster :)13:40
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zeqa lot of things *probably* will be13:40
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petteri in a way that me as user notices some improvments?13:41
DocScrutinizer05that depends13:41
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zeqthere's also the issue that some software just won't build with the old compiler anymore13:42
zeq4.2 is getting pretty old13:42
DocScrutinizer05common sense in that discipline is "it needs a over-all speed improvement by factor 2 until user notices"13:42
zeqthat's not impossible13:42
zeqI read that Android saw a I think it was a 40% improvement just switching to linaro13:43
DocScrutinizer05unless you're talking about hard realtime like video playback, where 2% speed increase make the difference between nice video and dropped frames13:43
DocScrutinizer05a valid usecase for overclocking13:43
zeqactually mplayer would be a pretty nice test for it... vi_ ...13:44
zeqDocScrutinizer05: better to have faster code than an overclock though, anyday :)13:44
zeqthe only thing about mplayer is it tends to have the most critical parts in assembler anyway13:45
DocScrutinizer05I'm the most notorious OC-hater all around13:45
vi_No shit, I hate orange county as well.13:45
zeqa lot of the size is just due to the static binaries, no choice there though13:46
DocScrutinizer05staically linked?13:47
DocScrutinizer05I bet that explains a lot13:47
zeqit's necessated by scratchbox13:47
DocScrutinizer05maybe, dunno13:47
zeqI tried with a dyn-linked toolchain first, didn't work13:48
zeqplus it'd only work with my system probably, anyway13:48
DocScrutinizer05I don't care too much about size of SB tools13:48
DocScrutinizer05SB itself is like 5GB13:48
zeqI'll probably leave them as they are13:49
zeqlet users delete the docs if they need the space13:49
DocScrutinizer05sane idea13:49
zeqdear god, cc1plus is 72MB!13:50
zeqcc1 68M, lto1 66M13:50
DocScrutinizer05look at libboost ;-P13:51
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DocScrutinizer0549160113 Apr  5  2008 /home/jr/halley/jr/Desktop/twinkle-1.2/src/gui/twinkle           3497348 30. Okt 2011  /usr/bin/twinkle13:56
DocScrutinizer05and that's not even been static linking13:56
DocScrutinizer05actually I forgot what caused this explosion13:57
zeqquite impressive13:58
DocScrutinizer05might just be debug symbols / stripping13:59
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zeqI'm writing a quick guide to setting it up on tmo14:09
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zeqWhat's going to happen about the EULA repos? Are we going to be able to make puplic mirrors, or what???14:10
zeq"Post rejected. As a new member, you are only allowed to post a minimum number of links in your post. Hit the back button on your web browser and edit your post. Thanks."14:11
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zeqSo, not having checked my webserver log, has anybody tried out the new toolchains?14:15
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* zeq checks log14:17
zeqSome of you have" :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask.14:18
infobotzeq meant: Some of you have! :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask.14:18
vi_zeq: I do not know, however I will be hosting the global 1.3 firmware on my webserver indefinatley.14:19
MohammadAGnot sure I'm comfortable with the new council14:19
MohammadAGrecent behaviour makes it seem childish14:19
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, read the quote, the reply is a given
DocScrutinizer05the term "childish2 is actually a euphemism14:22
MohammadAGnot sure the community's still the same14:22
DocScrutinizer05my thoughts14:22
chem|stMohammadAG: estel is visible only as such, powerhungry and childish14:22
DocScrutinizer05MohammadAG: I already posted my only comment on very same thread14:23
DocScrutinizer05nothing more to add14:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer05, I'm not sure where the thread is going too14:24
DocScrutinizer05staight into doom14:24
MohammadAGthe winners won't be changed, the council can't be changed, it's just taking tmo downhill14:24
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: could you find a reason to close it?14:24
MohammadAGNot that I have a problem with SD6914:24
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vi_Closing the thread can only be seen as an agressive act of censorship by the 'powers that be'.14:25
chem|stDocScrutinizer05: as my popcorn is gone... I might should find one yes14:25
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MohammadAGvi_, mods aren't council, council can't control mods and vice versa14:25
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DocScrutinizer05and that's the way it should be14:25
DocScrutinizer05for tmo, irc, whatnot14:26
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FIQ|n900would anyone that flame the thread care?14:26
FIQ|n900@ MohammadAG14:26
DocScrutinizer05esp since council isn't our emperor14:26
MohammadAGFIQ|n900, the thread raises valid points14:26
vi_If you shut that thread, then you stoke the fire.14:27
MohammadAGthere are no possible solutions14:27
MohammadAGdon't close it abrubtly14:27
DocScrutinizer05vi_: I leave that to tmo mods' discretion14:27
vi_Abill will get excited again then BAM the whole thing blows up again.14:27
DocScrutinizer05vi_: since I actually dunno14:27
MohammadAGabill_uk's just adding oil to the fire14:27
freemangordonzeq: no offence taken, I am the first to admit it was hackish :)14:28
chem|stuh quims post made a good point to close the thread at this point14:29
vi_It is merely my opinon and I trust the mods will do the right thing.  However if you shut it, it can be seen as suffocating legitimate protest.  If you post in it, it only stirs things up again.14:29
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vi_As far as I can tell you must simply let it burn out.14:30
MohammadAGvi_, already shut14:30
DocScrutinizer05all legitimate protest seems to have been mentioned over and over again14:30
freemangordonI agree with vi_, leave it die alone14:30
MohammadAGchem|st, I hope closing it that way won't backfire14:31
MohammadAGfreemangordon, it won't die alone14:31
freemangordonMohammadAG: what has happened with fixed CSSU-t?14:31
MohammadAGnot until council is replaced or awwards are reconsidered14:31
freemangordonleave that fcking thread14:31
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freemangordonMohammadAG: What I care of, is that right now we have a bunch of devices with oss-gnome-vfs thumb2-compiled, without kernel support for it, and you are discussing some bullshit thread. WTF?14:32
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freemangordonIt's been some 2 weeks and nothing is happening. At least I am not aware of14:33
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freemangordonI don't give a shit about how much arie, itsnotabigcar etc are frustrated, when we have CSSU-t users with broken SW on their devices14:34
freemangordonWhy should you?14:35
freemangordonMohammadAG: ^^^14:35
DocScrutinizer05chem|st: thanks a lot, pal!14:35
DocScrutinizer05you saved my day (and maybe council)14:36
Hurrianfreemangordon, nokia shipped thumb binaries on the N900?14:37
MohammadAGfreemangordon: Ill push a recompiled gnome-osso-vfs now14:37
MohammadAGHurrian: No, latest cssu t did14:37
chem|stfreemangordon: exactly!14:37
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freemangordonHurrian: yes, Nokia pushed thumb2 binaries, so did MohammadAG14:38
DocScrutinizer05yeah, freemangordon ++14:38
freemangordonfacebook-upload-applet being one of them (pushed by Nokia)14:38
zeqI guess this is a good reason to get the fixes into the kernel14:39
DocScrutinizer05which in turn exploded into our face a lot?14:39
freemangordonzeq: :nod:14:39
DocScrutinizer05probably Nokia anticipated FMGs thumb-fix ;-P14:40
freemangordonyou can bet on that :P14:40
freemangordonon fixed SR too, that is why the battery is only 1320 mAh14:40
DocScrutinizer05zeq: nope, that's a reason to get fixed libs, without thumb14:40
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I will be glad to hear about your plan to fix the libs that are in OVI store14:41
freemangordonhave in mind thumb2 compiled one is not some 10k lib like the one I REd14:42
freemangordonit is much bigger IIRC14:43
MohammadAGfreemangordon, git down14:43
DocScrutinizer05which would mean we are missing stuff in the REd one?14:43
freemangordonMohammadAG: gitorious is up here, could be your network14:44
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05:which means REd one is a piece of a puzzle, which consists of about 7-8 libs14:44
MohammadAGfreemangordon, network's fine14:44
MohammadAGfreemangordon, can you give me the ssh URL for osso-gnome-vfs2?14:45
DocScrutinizer05aaah the RE is way bigger, sorry I got that wrong14:45
freemangordonMohammadAG:just a second14:45
DocScrutinizer05well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever14:45
DocScrutinizer05nobody going to need that lib in early boot14:46
freemangordonMohammadAG: have in mind that you need to check EVERYTHING in the last update for being thumb-compiled14:46
freemangordonalso libxml2 dependencies in mp- are incorrect14:47
MohammadAGhow come?14:47
zeqhow did thumb binaries get through?14:47
DocScrutinizer05zeq: a *very* good question14:47
MohammadAGzeq, apparently stock scratchbox builds thumb2 bins14:47
DocScrutinizer05with no answer yet14:47
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: WTF early boot has to do with thumb2?14:47
MohammadAGwhich isn't causing any problems (yet)14:48
DocScrutinizer05it has nothing to do with thumb, but with facebook-upload-lib14:48
zeqyes, gcc-4.2 can do thumb14:48
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zeqit shouldn't be default though14:48
MohammadAGzeq, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS has thumb14:49
freemangordonzeq: but SB installer turns it on by default14:49
MohammadAGor whatever the env variable is14:49
freemangordonby FREMANTLE_ARMEL.environment file14:49
DocScrutinizer05<freemangordon> it is much bigger IIRC  <DocScrutinizer05> well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever  nobody going to need that lib in early boot14:49
zeqso it odes14:50
infobotzeq meant: so it does14:50
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it lives in /opt even now, that does not change the fact it is loaded in memory when there is FB widget or photo uploader active14:51
freemangordonthumb errata could hit in both arm/thumb code14:51
DocScrutinizer05what's your point?14:51
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freemangordonwhat zeq said is the correct think to do14:51
DocScrutinizer05I just said "don't worry about size of your RE'd FB-upload-lib"14:51
freemangordon(i.e. fixed kernel)14:51
zeqeven if it's very slightly slower14:52
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: sorry misunderstan what you were saying14:52
DocScrutinizer05seems you're in a mood to argue today14:52
freemangordonThe problem is not the size but complexity14:52
freemangordonThe one I REd is not thumb2 compiled one14:52
DocScrutinizer05I got that much14:53
freemangordonSo I don't get your question then, sorry.14:53
DocScrutinizer05I thought the original lib was way larger than your RE14:53
freemangordonaaah, no :)14:54
DocScrutinizer05then I learnt what you said, and said "don't worry"14:54
freemangordonthey are about the same size, some 8-9k14:54
DocScrutinizer05nevermind then my comments14:55
freemangordonyup :)14:55
DocScrutinizer05anyway I'm afk now14:56
DocScrutinizer05seems I have to ignore the ibuprofen not kicking in, and go to daywork anyway14:57
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* DocScrutinizer05 sighs "if only council had claimed 5 devices for council tasks right away, instead of putting themselves on benchmark of a contest/award"15:02
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zeqDocScrutinizer05: ACK15:09
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vi_But now we will never get nitroid for the n950 :(15:44
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Lava_Crofttime to see how much nicer daily life is using a n900 instead of a n915:52
Lava_Croft(not that i ever forgot)15:52
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mase76MohammadAG, there is a small problem with omp since the "resume on headphone connect" feature.16:19
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mase76there is a problem with the gpodder interaction, which worked fine before. if i want to play an audio podcast, omp often opens in videomode. if i repeat this, omp opens correct in audiomode, but the podcast starts from beginning then.16:22
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zeqlooks like qt is a pretty good test-case for g++ compilers! Both the 4.6 and 4.7 linaro compilers hit known (but different) ICEs, both targeted to be fixed for the next Linaro release (2012.07)17:06
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infobotice is probably Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics.  In Circut Emulator.  Internal Compiler Error17:28
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DocScrutinizer05mase76: you'll probably have to linger on here for a while, until MohammadAG will respond17:30
mase76i will17:30
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freemangordonzeq: which qt are you trying to build? as the one in the thumb repo should have everything ready for gcc 4.4+ compiler17:34
freemangordonthesource I mean17:34
freemangordonmase76: I think OMP development/maintainership was transferred to gidzzz@TMO, you'd better throw a post in OMP thread on TMO17:37
mase76MohammadAG no longer develops it?17:37
freemangordonits been like that for some time17:38
zeqfreemangordon: qt4-x11-4.7.4~git20110505+cssu617:39
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freemangordonzeq: where did you get that from? thumb-tesing branch in CSSU?17:40
freemangordonzeq: did you do git checkout thumb-testing?17:41
zeqfreemangordon:  I did add a patch for gcc-4.7 from debian, but the actual bugs I'm hitting are from fixes for other bugs upstream.  The gcc-4.7 bug is actually a gcc mainline bug, while the 4.6 bug is Linaro specific.17:41
zeqLet me check apt-cache policy17:42
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freemangordonzeq: where did you get Qt sources?17:42
zeq fremantle/free Packages17:42
freemangordonthumb repo?17:43
freemangordonaah,ok. so, none of your toolchains builds Qt? damn17:43
zeqThat's not entirely true, I could probably turn off neon17:44
zeqI was trying with neon enabled17:44
zeqqt does have explict neon support17:44
freemangordonmakes sense17:44
freemangordondoes it?17:44
zeqJust unlucky with the bugs17:44
* DocScrutinizer05 wonders if he recalls something about "neon doesn't work on N900 maemo"17:44
zeqyeah, it uses neon intrinsics17:44
zeqDocScrutinizer05: LOL17:45
zeqneon works fine17:45
freemangordonso next 4.7 should be OK with neon and Qt?17:45
zeqfreemangordon: well, who knows.  Fix one thing here, and it breaks another thing somewhere else...17:45
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: never ever trust anything on "not working on n900" if the source is not /me :P17:45
zeqIt *should*17:45
zeqThe OE folks are onto it17:46
DocScrutinizer05zeq: I'm absolutely unsure if I ever heard such rant, but maybe there's a reason they didn't use it? might be compiler based reason though17:46
freemangordonso, lets stick with my toolchain until the bug is fixed, ok?17:46
zeqgcc-4.2 based reason probably17:46
freemangordoneven if it is hackish :)17:47
zeqI could knock together a new toolchain based on the same upstream source as you17:47
zeqshall I?17:47
freemangordonzeq: what is the rationale?17:47
zeqI've got the hang of it now :)17:47
zeqit installs more cleanly17:47
freemangordonbut if you are going to make a new build in a week or two, that will be a time that will be lost17:48
zeqI've built a toolchain base without gcc, which I compile gcc against, then use sb-toolchain-extras to sandboxize it.17:49
freemangordonI mean it does not make sense to use it for a week and to throw it in favor of gcc 4.717:49
freemangordonbut it is up to you :)17:49
zeqwhat was it vanilla 4.6.2?17:50
freemangordonfrom gcc mirror17:50
* freemangordon is heading on his way home, bbl17:50
* DocScrutinizer05 waves17:50
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zeqI've lost the other one17:52
zeqfound it:
povbot_Bug 53135: was not found.17:56
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DocScrutinizer05~pet povbot_18:03
* infobot reaches over and pets povbot_ on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!"18:03
zeqpoor povbot :(18:06
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ZogG_laptopWoody14619: post is in thread on TMO18:17
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freemangordonzeq: I am on my way to register on github, will ping you whne ready18:35
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freemangordonzeq: freemangordon@github :)18:39
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DocScrutinizer05Estel_: since your PM promised you'll stop insulting me (and I gather, also stop insulting generally the chanops in here), I'll like to promise I'll also try to not use harsh words and I deleted you from my ignore list. Peace! :-)18:44
zeqfreemangordon: you should now have commit access.18:45
zeqI've just committed my changes to master, if you want to create a branch, do so.18:46
freemangordonzeq: thanks. where the repo is?18:46
freemangordonnah, I would prefer not to branch18:46
freemangordonI will commit only working code18:46
zeqI've gotta go for a bit,  I'll be back later if the gf doesn't ban me from my laptop ;)18:47
freemangordonok, bb18:47
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RiDkeep the negative energy out of the channel. Let it flow to where it belongs18:49
RiDI didn't write that18:50
DocScrutinizer05there's no such thing like negative energy ;-)18:50
freemangordon"dark" fits better18:51
vi_DocScrutinizer05: Not even from a 7905???18:52
DocScrutinizer05nah, that's negative voltage18:52
DocScrutinizer05energy is a scalar18:52
freemangordonyepm you beat me to it18:52
vi_Damn, your good.18:53
* GeneralAntilles hands DocScrutinizer05 and freemangordon some metaphysics.18:53
vi_... How many volts are required to drive an LED?18:53
freemangordondepends on the technology18:53
vi_HAH! Trollmode unlocked.  It is a current device.18:54
freemangordonusually in the range 1.8-4 (iirc)18:54
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DocScrutinizer05some might go up to 618:55
freemangordonvi_: bullshit, it is PN, don't tlee me diode is a current device18:55
DocScrutinizer05you need a certain voltage to start current flowing thru it18:56
freemangordonthe current (and luminocity) depends on the voltage, though not linearly18:56
freemangordon(it ws some quantum barrier, but for the gods sake i can't remember its name)18:57
DocScrutinizer05usually called Vfwd18:57
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DocScrutinizer05or U(fwd)18:57
freemangordonvi_: any other questions :P18:57 LED is a current device.18:59
DocScrutinizer05WTF is a "current device"?19:00
vi_freemangordon: Yes, 1.19:00
freemangordonyeah, define it19:00
vi_freemangordon: Why does it hurt when I pee?19:00
DocScrutinizer05I'd like to quote good ole FZ19:01
DocScrutinizer05you got it from the toilet seat19:01
freemangordonvi_: you have stones in your (place the english word here, ass?)19:01
DocScrutinizer05it jumped right up and grabbed your meat19:01
vi_mmm. My balls do feel like a pair of maraccas.19:02
DocScrutinizer05you got the gono kakakakus19:02
freemangordonyou sure there is no some monster living in your toilet smashing your balls?19:03
DocScrutinizer05you're sure that's still on topic in any way?19:03
* freemangordon is afk going to chase fennec's rotation19:04
* freemangordon turns trollmode off19:04
* DocScrutinizer05 is off taking a warm bath to stop that damn shaking19:04
qwazixI just read the thread about fennec rotation, maybe it just needs to be blacklisted?19:04
DocScrutinizer05I guess he rather wanna make it work, than block rotation19:05
qwazixQml apps handle their own rotation (and AFAIK fennec does that too) and CSSU rotates it again thus the 90° problem19:05
merlin1991qwazix: you should see it on harm19:06
freemangordonqwazix: it is a bit more complicated, Nokia (in their ethernal wisdom) made fennec listen to orientation sensor19:06
merlin1991there it's also quite funky19:06
DocScrutinizer05well, that's the root cause then. Fennecd not supposed to do anything "on its own"19:06
qwazixbut on harmattan it does rotate 4 ways19:06
qwazixso definitely does something by itself19:06
freemangordonand it uses pixmap rotation for that19:07
freemangordonGL pixmap rotation, which is sloooow19:07
qwazixI'm not sure what that is but if it's what I think (rotating pixel by pixel) no wonder it's slow19:07
freemangordonand NO software should decide on its own when to rotate. And no other software rotates 4 ways19:08
DocScrutinizer05at very least it MUST NOT use accelerometer raw data to do whateveer it does19:08
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.19:08
merlin1991qwazix: dunno the build I have on my n9 rotates 4 ways19:08
merlin1991BUT jumps back a split second later19:08
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qwazixmerlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i haven't noticed that earlier.19:09
infobotqwazix meant: merlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i hadn't noticed that earlier.19:10
qwazixNow i'm upside down for at least 20 seconds so it's not consistent19:11
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merlin1991qwazix: for me it works approximately 1 time out of 1019:13
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DocScrutinizer05I'm not sure who does rotation on N900(-CSSU), but I'm absolutely sure it needs to listen to display aspect ratio, and we want to control that in a central location, to have a hook where orientation lock (switch) could attach19:16
DocScrutinizer05apps listening to raw accelerometer data have no waay to learn about system global orientation lock, since there's no such thing defined in stock maemo19:18
qwazixMost probably that is what qt-components apps do, but I suppose we could change that in qt?19:20
DocScrutinizer05we should, if needed19:21
DocScrutinizer05btw apps constanly listening to accelerometer data as well introduce problems regarding CPU usage, power consumption and a couble of other domains. since that's not a recommended way to deal with accelerometer at all19:23
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DocScrutinizer05lis302 got an IRQ line and internal thresholds for a reason19:24
SpeedEvilAnd of course they can't do stuff like setting thresholds.19:24
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DocScrutinizer05that's why they need to read data constantly, several times per second19:25
DocScrutinizer05and do sw based thresholds19:25
DocScrutinizer05a huuuge cpu and energy hog19:25
DocScrutinizer05and common practice in Qt afaik19:26
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DocScrutinizer05sorry, can't type anymore... afk19:28
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DocScrutinizer05right way: lis302 accelerometer chip senses rotation -> engages IRQ -> mce detects IRQ, reads current orientation -> signal to dbus about orientation chage -> 57 apps wake up, receive dbus signal, act accordingly, go to sleep again19:33
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DocScrutinizer05wrong way: 57 apps poll lis302 10 times a seond, compare (in CPU) to their local thresholds, act accordingly, go to sleep for 01s second19:34
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: is the IRQ way implemented?19:35
DocScrutinizer05yes, basically19:35
DocScrutinizer05dunno about mce though19:35
freemangordonshould be, otherwise we would've seen it in powertop19:36
DocScrutinizer05in lis302.ko it's semi-implemented19:36
DocScrutinizer05only detects upright and flat iirc19:37
DocScrutinizer05not using highpass filter as it should19:37
freemangordonand polls for the others?19:37
DocScrutinizer05nah, odds are some orientation chages pass unnoticed19:38
DocScrutinizer05since lis302 won't trigger on them19:38
freemangordonyeah, got it19:39
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freemangordonshuldn't be a big problem though19:39
DocScrutinizer05e.g flat->portait iirc won't trigger IRQ19:39
freemangordonit triggers19:39
freemangordonok, at leas h-d rotates19:39
DocScrutinizer05look into lis302.ko src, you'll spot what I mean19:40
freemangordonok, will do it some day19:40
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DocScrutinizer05it *should* use highpass and set threshold rather low, and do this on 2 instead of just one axis19:41
DocScrutinizer05this way *any* orientation chanke aka move would cause IRQ to fire19:42
freemangordonyou mean a filter per axis?19:42
freemangordonwould that do the job?19:43
freemangordonor we would need a higher order?19:44
DocScrutinizer05iirc you got 2 comparators and 2 filters, and a summarizer. you set filters to 3 axis, add the results, and set one comparator so it fires when output is greater than x, which means any of the axis values changed more than y per timeframe19:44
freemangordonaah, the chip has those filters build in? coll, then i will deffinitely take a look at it some day. Though I am afraid mce is closed source and noone knows how will it act when thinks work in a way they have to19:45
DocScrutinizer05lis302.ko disables the filters, and no way to set them19:47
DocScrutinizer05Nokia thought it's not needed, so driver doesn't support it19:47
DocScrutinizer05there's even a comment in it on words to the effect19:48
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DocScrutinizer05  outright "I didn't get it, so we don't use it"19:52
DocScrutinizer05that's *not* mameo implementation though19:52
DocScrutinizer05that's the BS meego etc are using19:52
DocScrutinizer05aka "upstream"19:53
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freemangordon"we poll the sensor only at 20Hz..."19:54
* RST38h moos19:57
RST38hDoc <-- segregates by OS version =)19:57
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Guest63653libqtm provides an orientation API, that's what fennec is using to determine when to rotate.  No reason it should be of course, I'm pretty sure the API was provided for apps with a specific need to know which way is up, for things other than UI rotation.19:59
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zeqoops, that was me ;)19:59
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freemangordonyou still have a GF?19:59
zeqat the moment :)20:00
DocScrutinizer05 here you are20:00
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: will look at it some day, now i am clonning fennec and will play a little bit with it20:01
freemangordonWOW 730 MB20:01
freemangordon(fennec sources + git info)20:02
zeqmozilla has a long history20:02
DocScrutinizer05187         /* Enable interrupt wakeup on x and y axis */20:02
DocScrutinizer05Z axis not monitored (can't be done as we have only 2 comparators aiui)20:02
DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: for a proper accelerometer API we'd need to define a whole new concept. One based on app requesting for a certain "resolution" and a central entity unifying all the requests - much like in liblocation20:07
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MrPinguHmm, is it normal that X consumes most of CPU time?20:08
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DocScrutinizer05unless screen locked, when it probably shouldn't consume all that much20:09
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MrPinguThen it's me20:09
DocScrutinizer05  877   716 root     S <  15540  6.3  2.5 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nolisten tcp -noreset -s 0 -core20:10
DocScrutinizer05 1578  1177 user     S     8296  3.3  1.3 /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu20:10
DocScrutinizer0514328 14173 root     R      732  0.3  0.7 top20:10
DocScrutinizer05 2226  2224 root     S      572  0.2  0.7 /bin/sh /root/bin/ 6020:11
DocScrutinizer05top 4 top20:11
DocScrutinizer05and no, this shell displayed on my laptop, not on device screen/X20:11
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless screen not locked20:12
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MrPinguah I see :) I checked conky and it showed xorg as most CPU time consuming process20:14
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DocScrutinizer05same top 4 with screen locked:20:15
DocScrutinizer0514415 14173 root     R      736  0.3  0.5 top20:15
DocScrutinizer05   10     2 root     SW       0  0.0  0.5 [omap2_mcspi]20:15
DocScrutinizer05  550     2 root     SW       0  0.0  0.3 [wl12xx]20:15
DocScrutinizer05 2248  1177 user     S     5172  2.1  0.2 /usr/bin/image-viewer20:15
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MrPinguI couldn't remember I had seen xorg that high in that list before :P20:16
DocScrutinizer05wtf image-viewer??20:16
MrPingu 869   712 root     S <  38736 16.4 14.6 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nol20:17
MrPinguystem --nofork20:17
zeq1conky isn't exactly a low overhead monitor20:18
DocScrutinizer05conky does a friggin lot of gfx iirc, ... on and via X20:18
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DocScrutinizer05actually X is working harder for the gfx than the monitor20:19
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zeq1jus accounting doc20:20
infobotzeq1 meant: just accounting doc20:20
freemangordonzeq1: no debian/ and no mozconfig?20:20
zeq1freemangordon: it's a fork of mozilla-central. It's the recommended tree for working against.  We need to decide whether to include debian/ in the repo or .gitignore it.20:22
zeq1I thought we could decide that once you got your account.20:23
freemangordonzeq1: if it is called maemo5... then we either do maemo5 branch and put those there or put them in master20:23
freemangordonhmm, branch maemo5 should be ok20:24
zeq1I don't have a problem having it in the repo, it just makes it slightly more work if we push it upstream.20:24
freemangordonwe don;t need it upstream20:24
zeq1true enough20:24
zeq1I just wanted to keep our options open :)20:24
MrPinguYeah, it seems conky pushes X to about 15 percent20:25
zeq1at least it's easy to keep it up to date20:25
zeq1since it's tracking upstream20:25
freemangordonzeq1: ok, I will branch and put maemo5 stuff there, pull it afterwards and compare it with yours (debian and mozconfig)20:25
DocScrutinizer05zeq1: (options) +120:26
freemangordonzeq1: but other changes will go to master20:26
DocScrutinizer05if only nokia had upstreamed lis302.ko20:27
zeq1so anything packaging specific in a branch, fixes in master20:27
freemangordonyou already put some in master20:27
freemangordoni will do the same20:27
zeq1just build fixes20:27
freemangordonI know, but still20:28
zeq1I'm happy with the plan :)20:28
zeq1should HARM be using the same rotation framework?20:29
zeq1does it have qtmaemo?20:30
freemangordonit is some meegotouch stuff ther AFAIK. But I am not much into harm20:30
zeq1so the manual rotate stuff is some weird fallback?20:30
freemangordonor ugly hack/workaround, yes20:31
zeq1are both the ugly hack and meegotouch getting enabled on harm, hence the weird behavour mentioned20:31
freemangordoncould be20:32
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zeq1can't easily look at the code atm, making dinner20:33
DocScrutinizer05zeq1: (re orientation) yes, and qt in turn is using this polling joystickj upstream driver, last I asked20:35
DocScrutinizer05since that's the "generic2 one they found upstream20:35
DocScrutinizer05lis3lv02d.ko is polling the chip, sensorfw is polling /dev/accel, and qt is polling sensorfw20:36
DocScrutinizer05that's raouhgly their system architecture20:37
zeq1probably because apps are registered with libqtm orientaion api20:37
zeq1it's the wrong layer though20:37
DocScrutinizer05it's the wrong concept20:38
freemangordonzeq1: the first i did is to remove qtorientationsensor :)20:38
zeq1haven't they heard of layering violation?20:38
freemangordonzeq1: will see in the commits in a couple of minutes20:38
DocScrutinizer05iirc qtorientationsensor has a pollingrate parameter20:40
zeq1I'm sure there are valid use-cases for the API, can't think of one though20:40
DocScrutinizer05spirit level20:40
DocScrutinizer05is a valiud usecase for polling20:40
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zeq1nope, the api reports top-up, top-down,... etc20:40
DocScrutinizer05pissibly at VSYNC framerate20:40
zeq1not raw readings20:40
DocScrutinizer05the typos become hillarious20:41
zeq1my N900 is so nice with this hildon-desktop build :D20:42
DocScrutinizer05zeq1: (API) right, there are two20:42
DocScrutinizer05orientation and real degrees or g20:42
zeq1totally separate APIs20:42
DocScrutinizer05both working rather same way though20:43
DocScrutinizer05I guess20:43
freemangordonzeq1: do wer really need +ac_add_options --enable-tests20:43
zeq1neither should be used for rotation20:43
zeq1freemangordon: no not really20:43
DocScrutinizer05since rotation is a virtual thing loosely related to orientation only20:44
zeq1DocScrutinizer: at least not by apps20:44
zeq1WM could reasonably use it20:44
zeq1I guess20:44
DocScrutinizer05zeq1: I always come with my usecase "orientation by detection of user eye horiuzon, via front cam"20:45
zeq1nice, not low power though20:45
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DocScrutinizer05indeed, but a killer for orientation based rotation, and too tight coupling to accel20:46
zeq1it's always bugged me, rotation when lying on my side :)20:46
DocScrutinizer05clearly shows the concept is flawed20:46
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DocScrutinizer05and polling parameter in Qt* widgets shows their sensor concept is flawed, usually20:49
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DocScrutinizer05since sensors need to _create_ events, not react on them20:49
DocScrutinizer05that's IRQ driven hw/sw design. Only valid approach for embedded20:50
DocScrutinizer05a device that doesn't do anything, has to do exactly that: NOTHING20:51
DocScrutinizer05NOT poll sensors20:51
zeq1you should have to register a notifier20:51
DocScrutinizer05meego folks always uttered "we'll deal with those minor details later - first we need to make it work at all"20:52
zeq1to be fair, they wanted to get a device out for a deadline20:52
DocScrutinizer05then they were shocked by their idle power consumption and abyssmal standby time20:53
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zeq1only to be expected20:53
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zeq1libqtm is still in development at least20:54
DocScrutinizer05once you implemented qt and sensorfw on a fundamentally wrong architecture, you never will "fix it later"20:54
zeq1there is a chance it will be fixed20:54
zeq1I don't know, as long as you depreciate the broken way with nice noisy warnings20:54
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DocScrutinizer05until I start to see that chance, I stick to my staement that meego never will get decent standby time20:55
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DocScrutinizer05well, meego is dead, so who cares20:55
zeq1mer is going pretty strong though20:56
DocScrutinizer05I just don't like to see qt spoiling maemo standby time20:56
zeq1I don't now how much they've stuck to the broken bits20:56
DocScrutinizer05if stskeeps is no squarehead, he had a close look into at least this very topic, as I explained to him several times20:57
DocScrutinizer05in epic length20:57
DocScrutinizer05so if they kept this arch for mer, I dunno20:57
zeq1I'm going to ask, Imm on #mer anyway...20:57
DocScrutinizer05maybe better not to mention my name ;-D20:59
zeq1Hopefully I didn't come across too offensive20:59
zeq1maybe they're all at the pub? :P21:01
DocScrutinizer05they don't respond well on too unspecific rant like yours, I guess21:03
DocScrutinizer05to answer your question if they are still using the broken poll-based approach, they first had to be aware what that actually means21:04
DocScrutinizer05while the problem is they aren't even aware of the concept of IRQ/event-driven architecture - at least that's what it seems to me sometimes21:07
DocScrutinizer05and hell, on several desktop platforms, you don't have any IRQ for that, so you _need_ to use polling, and usually on those platforms you just don't care21:08
DocScrutinizer05and that's probably also why Qt is using this approach - it works on most platforms, while IRQ driven is rather hw specific21:09
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DocScrutinizer05(you could argue that, if your hardware doesn't provide proper IRQ triggered on events, then at least you implement the polling timers directly into the kernel device driver, so the kernel device API and concept could stay unchanged)21:11
DocScrutinizer05but when you completely neglect thinking about hw IRQ driven architecture, then of course you implement the timers as close to app as possible, as the app (seems) knows best how often it needs to poll that sensor21:14
DocScrutinizer05a proper arch would define a way for apps to register to events, and define the "timer" aka resolution/frequency/sensitivity/accuracy in that registering21:15
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DocScrutinizer05all layers beneath would hand thru the details to lower layers, or handle parts of htese parameters themselves to consolidate multiple requests, in a way when one app requests on datapoint per second, and the other requests 20, the layer below will get asked to provide 2021:17
DocScrutinizer05look liblocation, where this got implemented in a decent way21:18
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DocScrutinizer05one app wants accuracy based on GSM cells, other wants accuracy based on gps, third wants a-gps. The middleware (here lib) aggregates and consolidates that to meet all requirements21:20
DocScrutinizer05exactly what we'd need for accel/orientation/rotation too21:21
DocScrutinizer05a nd the nice thing: this arch should work on any platform, just the return codes and resulting resource allocations are different for platforms with different capabilities21:23
zeq1sorry about disappearing gf needing attention ;)21:23
DocScrutinizer05np, now I'm disappearing21:23
DocScrutinizer05myself needs attention ;-)21:24
merlin1991an engineers monologue ;)21:24
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freemangordonzeq1: any idea how to test all that gcc thumb/neon efficiency?21:30
freemangordonesp. neon, for thumb the benefit is clear21:31
freemangordonwhatever it is :)21:31
SpeedEvilIt's the stereotypical heavy FP app21:31
freemangordonSpeedEvil: My idea was how to compare Qt with/out neon21:32
M4rtinKmaybe scrolling speed in a long list ?21:33
M4rtinKor some insane qt graphics view demo ?21:33
SpeedEvilNo clue as to what 'normal' stuff uses FP21:33
freemangordonand taking a video with a camera? :)21:33
SpeedEvilIt would be interesting to have a 'fpumeter'21:34
freemangordonSpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see when those optimizations kick in21:34
SpeedEvillike the cpu applet21:34
infobotfreemangordon meant: SpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see where those optimizations kick in21:34
SpeedEvilbut to break out the opcodes21:34
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DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: puzzlemaster!21:38
DocScrutinizer05iirc it became slow beyond any usability when it used qt for the tile moving21:39
freemangordonbut does it use FP?21:39
DocScrutinizer05well, iirc we comcluded that FP in Qt was the culprit21:40
zeq1don't forget it's not just about FP21:40
zeq1it's also about SIMD21:40
DocScrutinizer05the nice part: you can scale it easily, simply by number of tiles moving around21:40
freemangordonwhere the optimisations are?21:40
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DocScrutinizer05you have to ask original author about details21:41
zeq1could have a look in the qt code, grep for neon to see what get accelerated21:42
zeq1at least that way we'd know what to test21:43
freemangordonzeq1: btw did Qt compile with neon and "my" toolchain?21:43
* DocScrutinizer05 curses his memory, as can't recall irc nick of puzzlemaster author21:43
zeq1freemangordon: haven't tried it21:43
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freemangordonok, i will do that, once STUPID FENNEC ROTATES AS IT SHOULD21:44
zeq1DocScrutinizer: Stskeeps has replied :)21:45
DocScrutinizer05well, that's an answer as well21:45
freemangordonzeq1: on #mer?21:47
DocScrutinizer05the usual answer, "send a patch!"21:48
freemangordonyeah, :(21:49
DocScrutinizer05ignoring that architecture can't get patched that easily21:49
DocScrutinizer05see what I meant?21:50
DocScrutinizer05all the same I already seen in #meego21:50
DocScrutinizer05"send a patch", "we'll deal with that later, for now it just needs to work"21:51
DocScrutinizer05and finally "that's the only lis302 driver upstreaqm, if you got a better one, send it upstream and we'll happily use it"21:52
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Siceloi got a random reboot, and here's my syslog around the time.
Siceloit's not too much of a problem, but maybe someone can shed some light22:04
freemangordonSicelo: /dev/mtd2?22:04
Sicelohmm, what about it?22:04
freemangordon:) there are the oopses22:05
freemangordoni.e. kernel backtrace22:05
Siceloin short, HW fail?22:05
freemangordonin short, there is a kernel crash log in /dev/mtd2, pastebinit22:06
Siceloah.. let me see22:06
Sicelohmm, i wonder if this will help :\22:10
Sicelothat happened about 10 hours ago (i was at work, so didn't have the time to look into it)22:10
freemangordonSicelo: kernel crash backtrace is the only think that can help in case of a kernel oops22:10
Siceloi'll paste22:11
freemangordonthat does not matter, it is a dedicated part of NAND22:11
freemangordonso it persists through rebbots and time22:11
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Sicelomeh, pastebinit fails on my pc, wtf. did also change api22:19
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vi__Sicelo: pastebinit on n900 is depreciated.22:24
vi__N900 version is 1.122:24
vi__current is 1.322:24
vi__fortunatley is is just a glorified script.22:25
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Siceloactually it's my debian pc that didn't work22:25
vi__you can wget debian testing version22:25
vi__deb file and dpkg -i it strait up.22:26
Sicelokewl. thanks22:26
vi__Also has changed their API.  They are made of fail and should now be avoided.22:26
Sicelothat's why i was surprised didn't seem to work too22:26
freemangordonSicelo: no kernel oops, check if your battery is not loose22:27
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Siceloeew. i know this battery has been loose for a while22:27
vi__you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.<YOURPASTEBINHERE>.<WHATEVER>22:27
vi__you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.<YOURPASTEBINHERE>.<WHATEVER>"22:28
vi__You can list available pastbins with -h22:28
freemangordonSicelo: that is not a major issue, just poll the contacts (on n900) a bit22:28
Siceloah, vi__ my  mistake was forgetting the quotes then :/22:28
vi__you can set the default in .pastebinit.22:28
vi__Sicelo: yes, it took me while too!22:28
freemangordonvi__: my English is not good enough, please explain to Sicelo what to do in case of a loose battery22:29
Siceloi've done it successfully before. slipped my mind22:29
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* vi__ reads scrollback22:29
vi__Sicelo: depending on how your battery is loose.22:29
vi__Sicelo: n900 right?22:30
Sicelowell, if it's battery, i'm kinda relieved. i know it is loose :\22:30
Siceloyes, N90022:30
freemangordonhe has restarts out of the blue, and ther is no kernel oops22:30
vi__freemangordon: I don't know, that would be getting dangerously close to 'contributing to community' and we know I am nothing but troll.22:30
freemangordonSicelo: actually your n900 is damn stable, the last kernel crash is with KP4722:30
vi__Sicelo: put battery in ur ass.22:31
vi__Sicelo: or not.22:31
freemangordonhmm, yes, you are right.22:31
freemangordonyou're a troll22:31
vi__Sicelo: if it is a loose battery it is generally the connections.22:31
Siceloi've taken rather good care of this piece of electronics, lol.22:31
vi__The connections on the bl-5j battery.22:31
* Sicelo loves this N900. if only..22:31
vi__If you look at the terminals on the bl-5j you will see that they are made of 2 small spring clips.22:32
Siceloyeah vi__ .. i've tried to bend/unbend the springs .. still seems like i'm not successful22:32
vi__You see the springs have like a small half sphere on them.22:32
freemangordonI think there is a spring on the opposite side, butting the battery against the contacts, not sure though, lemme check22:33
vi__The small half speres should be more or less touching.22:33
Siceloi was saying here on friday (iinm) that this battery+contacts design sucks. what was wrong with BL-5C type of contacts..22:33
Sicelothanks vi__ & freemangordon22:33
vi__Sicelo: I do not recall the bl-5c.22:33
freemangordonSicelo: on the opposite to the contacts side there are two springs, you should extend them VERY CAREFULLY22:33
freemangordonso your battery will be held tighter22:34
vi__Sicelo: Sicelo what country are you in?22:34
Sicelolulz vi__ :P22:34
vi__mmm, to expensive to mail my spare.,22:35
Siceloatmospheric pressure? ;)22:35
vi__Sicelo: is english your first language?22:35
Siceloi can buy one from Expansys in South Africa. no, english is my 3rd22:36
vi__Sicelo: holy shit.22:36
Sicelowhat? :P22:36
vi__Sicelo: I feel like the dumbest white guy in the room.22:36
vi__Sicelo: so you are understanding EXACTLY what we mean by bending the battery terminals so they make better contact?22:36
vi__Sicelo: Because I only speak 1 language :(22:37
vi__Sicelo: I studied polish for a while but it is hard as hell.22:37
vi__Sicelo: ...and the chick I was trying to impress went away.22:37
Siceloyes vi__ . i've actually done this battery thing a couple of times before.. in fact, DocScrutinizer05 was helping me on friday iirc22:37
vi__well it sounds to me either:22:38
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freemangordonvi__: I think is is better to first bend the sprongs that hold the battery against contacts. Only if that don;t help, then it is contacts turn22:38
vi__1. The battery is totally fecked.22:38
vi__2. It is a different problem.22:38
vi__freemangordon: aaah, I understand.22:38
vi__Sicelo: is the battery loose in the battery bay?22:39
freemangordoni had the same problem, didn't touch the contacts, only the springs on the opposite side22:39
vi__freemangordon: That would make sense.22:39
Siceloit is battery.. i knew it was .. because sometimes when i turn the N900 on, i have to enter the time (which i doubt s/w can require)22:39
vi__Sicelo: That means the power has been removed.22:39
vi__Sicelo: which could be the result of several things.22:40
Sicelopoor battery.. still has a lot of life in it :(22:40
vi__Sicelo: is this an official nokia battery?22:40
merlin1991Sicelo: what are the other 2 languages you speak?22:40
vi__not a cheap knockoff?22:40
Sicelo1240mAh, the last time i checked22:40
vi__Sicelo: Ok.22:40
freemangordonSicelo: most probably there's nothing wrong with your battery, it is just loose22:41
Sicelovi__: yeah, original, came with the N900. the 1240mAh is i'ts current capacity22:41
vi__Sicelo: I assume you understood what freemangordon said about the springs in the battery bay?22:41
vi__Sicelo: yes/no?22:41
freemangordonzeq1: wtf? /opt/fennec-16.0a1/22:41
Sicelomerlin1991: siswati & zulu (well, i cheated, because these two are so close to one another :P)22:42
Siceloyeah, i understood. thanks22:42
vi__brb, making dinner.22:43
vi__also, biltong.22:43
zeqfreemangordon: yeah, as I mentioned, it's forked off mozilla-central.22:43
zeqI don't think it'll matter that much22:45
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freemangordonzeq: sure, it is just that I was surprised :)22:46
zeqI could have made a branch of a release tag, but I didn't think it would matter.22:47
freemangordonhmm, now the progress is, that we have reverse-landscape when device is in portrait :D:D:D. cool. anyway, getting closer22:47
zeqprobably should have done really.22:47
zeqhow'd that happen???22:48
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freemangordonI set the rotationangle in MozQOrientationSensorFilter to 270 deg, now will try with 180, that should do the job22:48
zeqUmmm.... why are you using that?  I thought we we're not using that code?22:51
infobotzeq meant: Ummm.... why are you using that?  I thought we were not using that code?22:51
freemangordonzeq: let me have something working to commit on github, will optimize it afterwards22:51
freemangordonwhe you see my commits you will understand why ;)22:52
zeqI don't see the point of fixing the wrong code??? I'll take a look...22:52
freemangordonwhat we will not use is qtm orientation22:52
freemangordonbut fennec needs the angle as it does some matrix/transformation magic. that will be the next think to get rid off22:53
zeqbut we just want to respond to resize events through the qtmaemo(?) API, right?22:53
freemangordonzeq, for some reasin it don;t work, that is what I have been trying since a few hours. it is not QWidget, but QGraphicsWidget22:54
zeqit doesn't get rotated with hildon-desktop?22:55
freemangordonzeq: gimme some 20 minutes, trust me , you will see why I do it that way. Getting rid of the rotation will be the next thing to do22:55
freemangordon(GLES rotation that is)22:55
freemangordonplus we can always revert the commits :)22:56
zeqbtw I'm building gcc-4.6.3, see if that works.22:57
freemangordon:) ok22:58
zeqI'll keep an eye on linaro, when it builds qt again we can switch then.22:58
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freemangordonthis is the commit we should revert for maemo523:12
freemangordonnot sure it will be enough though23:13
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zeqrevert or #ifdef it's where all the crazy code originates23:17
freemangordonI am adding #if !(MAEMO_PLATFORM == 5)23:18
freemangordonotherwise I don;t think it will be upstreamed :D23:18
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zeqYeah.  By the comments though, it sounds like it was just for MeeGo, should have been #if defined WHAT_EVER_MEEGO_DEFINE_IS23:19
freemangordonyeah :(23:20
freemangordon(MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6)23:20
zeqis it though?23:20
zeqdidn't think so23:21
freemangordon#ifdef MOZ_ENABLE_QTMOBILITY23:21
freemangordonmaybe I misunderstood your question23:21
freemangordonqould you rephrase23:21
zeqMeeGo != Harmattan23:22
zeqIt doesn't seem qtm gets used anywhere else23:22
freemangordonmaemo5 :)23:22
freemangordonbut yeah23:22
zeqI mean in the mozilla code23:23
freemangordonwhich one, MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6 ?23:23
zeqsuch as exposed for html5 apps23:23
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freemangordonok, lets see the new build ;)23:23
zeqisn't MeeGo  different UI to Harm?23:24
freemangordonthe share meegotouch library23:24
zeqbut I imagine from the earlier report Harm doesn't need that MeeGo rotation code23:25
freemangordoninitially it was open, but nokia closed it IIRC23:25
freemangordonzeq: NFC23:25
zeqI guess we're not trying to fix the harm port ;)23:26
freemangordonno, what makes you think that23:26
freemangordonHARM == MAEMO623:26
freemangordonand I am removeing MAEMO6 code23:26
zeqI know.  I was just thinking about the report of the strange rotation behaviour ^^23:27
zeq(with Harm)23:27
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freemangordonaah, I see23:29
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zeqgcc-4.6.3 toolchain will be ready shortly23:56
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