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| alex- | RiD: hai | 00:50 |
|---|---|---|
| RiD | alex-, lol | 00:50 |
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| RiD | the hell? that guy must be a stalker | 00:51 |
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| * RST38h moos evilly | 01:12 | |
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| Macer | game of thrones season 2 was awesome | 01:13 |
| Macer | especially the ending with the dragon girl | 01:13 |
| RST38h | Macer: lots of HBO-style fan service, right? | 01:13 |
| Macer | yeah | 01:13 |
| Macer | but it has a great story | 01:13 |
| RST38h | Sex, gore, gays lesbians and midgets! | 01:13 |
| Macer | at least better than most of the tv trash out there | 01:13 |
| Macer | yeah haha | 01:13 |
| RST38h | indeed | 01:14 |
| Macer | the midget makes it worthwhile | 01:14 |
| Macer | you forgot dragons ;) | 01:14 |
| * RST38h somehow made it through the last Fringe season | 01:14 | |
| SpeedEvil | The midget was more awesome in the books. | 01:14 |
| RST38h | fucking shit, they could do better by using SCP articles as scripts | 01:14 |
| Macer | i stopped watching x-fringe after season 1 | 01:14 |
| Macer | it was meh | 01:14 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: The midget appears to be the only decent character in the whole cast | 01:14 |
| Macer | the alternate universe crap was lame | 01:14 |
| Macer | out of episodes tho :( | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | I was introduced to the books by hearing a naked girl read it. | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | the internet does wonderful things for literacy. | 01:15 |
| RST38h | The whole thing? | 01:15 |
| Macer | hahahhaa | 01:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Just the first couple of chapters. | 01:15 |
| Macer | aren't they like 800 pages? :) | 01:15 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, the whole book appears to be one huge Shakespearean fanfic | 01:17 |
| RiD | RST38h the last Fringe season is ... uninteresting. | 01:17 |
| RST38h | Not necessarily in the bad sense though | 01:17 |
| Macer | anything past the 1st season sucked | 01:17 |
| Macer | oh wow... lots of undead walking about | 01:18 |
| Macer | this poor bastard hahaha | 01:18 |
| RiD | i liked the episode with the girl that teased men to their car. then ate them | 01:18 |
| * SpeedEvil wishes there were some decent sci-fi. | 01:18 | |
| SpeedEvil | I've just been rereading Garret P.I. | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Err | 01:18 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Try Dan Simmons | 01:18 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: Also try China Mieville | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't like Ms Meiville. | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Too depressing. | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean on TV | 01:19 |
| Macer | wow.. that has got to be about the worst cg ever | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | The Dresden Files got murdered | 01:19 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: He is a guy | 01:19 |
| Macer | hahaha | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Oops | 01:19 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: And never been on TV afaik | 01:19 |
| Macer | the end of season 2 of game of thrones looked like a ps1 game | 01:19 |
| * SpeedEvil points to Babylon 5 CGI. | 01:19 | |
| Macer | yeah haha | 01:19 |
| SpeedEvil | It was good at the time. | 01:20 |
| Macer | babylon5 probablay did better | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | But - it's looking kinda dated now. | 01:20 |
| Macer | but the end of game of thrones was awful cg | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - Galaxy On Fire almost beats it at times. :) | 01:20 |
| Macer | hey.. back in the day they had to use model trickery ;) | 01:20 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, I wish there were some recent sci-fi- | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | B5 was entirely CG | 01:20 |
| Macer | look at the old star wars movies... all that puppet and model trickery | 01:20 |
| Venemo | I mean, they killed all sci-fi series.... | 01:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: you mean on TV? | 01:21 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: it was one of the first to do it wasn't it? | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: Pretty much. | 01:21 |
| Macer | i thought that was a big deal when b5 was out | 01:21 |
| RiD | the hell is b5 | 01:21 |
| SpeedEvil | Babylon 5. | 01:21 |
| Macer | a 5s scene probably took like 3 weeks to render | 01:21 |
| Macer | lol | 01:21 |
| Macer | using sgi based stuff :) | 01:21 |
| Macer | you can see they reused a lot of it | 01:22 |
| RiD | 93-98 | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: sounds about right. | 01:22 |
| Macer | i liked babylon 5 | 01:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Me too. | 01:23 |
| Macer | other than the cheesy acting sometimes .. it was a good storyline | 01:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | More than just episodes, and then back to the original condition. | 01:23 |
| RiD | i liked shameless | 01:23 |
| RiD | but that's no sci-fi | 01:23 |
| Estel_ | equlibrium is msotly unknown, and good sci-fi - although cinema, not serial | 01:23 |
| Raimu | I didn't like Equilibrium that much. | 01:23 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: babylon 5 started to go downhill after the shadow war ;) | 01:23 |
| Raimu | Then again, I was just recovering from my "hate The Matrix" phase. :D | 01:24 |
| Macer | and dont even get me started on that season 5 abortion | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: Crusade | 01:24 |
| Macer | crusade sucked so bad | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 01:24 |
| Raimu | B5 Crusade was pretty darn abysmal. | 01:24 |
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| Macer | although.. if you watched west wing | 01:24 |
| RiD | there are glitches i nthe matrix | 01:24 |
| Macer | it was bingo bob :) | 01:24 |
| Estel_ | But, but, as per historical - I enjoyed Pillars of the earth much. i know, I'm not casual tv viewer, so it's probably too mainstream for You :D | 01:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It took what was worst in star-trek, and what was worst in B5, then added them. | 01:24 |
| Macer | that's the only other show i ever saw him in haha | 01:24 |
| Macer | Estel_: they only had 1 season :-/ | 01:25 |
| Macer | it didn't rate well | 01:25 |
| Raimu | Estel_, there's a series adaptation of that? | 01:25 |
| Macer | i thought it was ok.. not great but good | 01:25 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: yeah haha... that was crusade in a nutshell | 01:26 |
| Macer | as bad as bad gets ... it would have been good to see more technomage stuff | 01:27 |
| Macer | i always wished they popped back up in the original series but they never did | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | hey, i'm glad pillars of the earth was one series! | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | i don't like never-ending-series | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | if it's like up to 13 parts, it's ok, like longer cinema | 01:27 |
| Macer | yeah but it's like they cut it off half way :) | 01:27 |
| Estel_ | other become lost :P | 01:27 |
| Macer | omg lost was awful | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | Macer, where Pillars of the earth was cut? 0_o | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | it wa sbase don novel | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | next aprt of this novel was 200 years later | 01:28 |
| Macer | yes. unless i missed something | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | I hope you don't want to see 200 years of kingsbridge history :P | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | in screen:p | 01:28 |
| Macer | i saw up to the part where she gave birth to the bastard child after the church collapsed | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | BTw, they're making adaptation of continuation too | 01:28 |
| Macer | were there more episodes or something? | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | so you haven't seen whole | 01:28 |
| Estel_ | missed 2 parts IIRC | 01:29 |
| Macer | oh.. i guess that explains it haha | 01:29 |
| Macer | i was like.... wtf? they cancelled it? | 01:29 |
| RiD | Estel_ a good example of never ending series, Smallvile | 01:29 |
| RiD | ugh | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | no, it was both financial and critic sucess ;P | 01:29 |
| RiD | smallville* | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | haha, i'm glad I didn't saw it | 01:29 |
| Estel_ | as said, i'm verypicky about seriales | 01:29 |
| Macer | i watched like 4 episodes of smallville | 01:29 |
| RiD | 10 friggin seasons! | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | Cinema - yes, series - no, most of the time. Except for exceptional ones | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | (see Twin peaks) | 01:30 |
| Macer | i couldn't do repeating stories | 01:30 |
| *** delphi is now known as trx | 01:30 | |
| RiD | one series i liked very much was The Finder | 01:30 |
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| Macer | i never watched twin peaks either heh | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | well, they've abused House unsanely | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | i'm glad he told them GTFO | 01:30 |
| Macer | gtfo? house | 01:30 |
| Macer | ? | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | Macer, must see it, it's not only classic - it still keeps those things :D | 01:30 |
| Estel_ | actor playing main character ;) | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | they wanted to do at leas6t 23547623573275672 seazons more, but he resigned | 01:31 |
| Macer | house did??? | 01:31 |
| Macer | wow | 01:31 |
| Estel_ | so they cancelled :P | 01:31 |
| RiD | he was getting od | 01:31 |
| RiD | old* | 01:31 |
| * Macer stares at NCIS | 01:31 | |
| Estel_ | actually, quite time ago | 01:31 |
| Macer | heh | 01:31 |
| Macer | i got up to the one where he was going back to jail over toilets or something | 01:31 |
| Macer | i guess that explains why they were killing wilson haha | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | RiD, no diea about the Finder, what was that? | 01:32 |
| RiD | Estel_, http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1943524/ | 01:32 |
| Estel_ | ah, some supernatural | 01:32 |
| RiD | not really lol. I found it very nice to watch, it's a shame fox cancelled it | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | honestly though, have anyone played Heavy Rain? I haven't as it got released only for awful consoles, but it looks like perfectly realized serie in a nutshell ;) | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | Rid, i'm not criticizing, haven't seen it as said | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | I just commented that he got supernatural powers | 01:33 |
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| Macer | i didn't know they cancelled house | 01:33 |
| Estel_ | Macer, it was overdue few years, already :P | 01:34 |
| RiD | the only thing i remember of heavy rain was the squared stroller | 01:34 |
| RiD | (on heavy rain) | 01:34 |
| Macer | Estel_: i suppose | 01:34 |
| Macer | i need to watch the last one then.. i never went back to it ;) | 01:34 |
| Estel_ | Macer, as per Pilalrs, You've missed transforming kingsbridge into semi-fortress and villagers fighting back ;0 | 01:35 |
| Macer | Estel_: i totally forgot the entire storyline by now | 01:35 |
| Estel_ | wort re-watching, from beginning to end. BTw, I msut refresh twin peaks | 01:35 |
| Macer | other than the family trying to become rich after their father was killed as a trator.. etc | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | althohgh this one is quite unforgetable | 01:36 |
| Macer | and the bastard baby | 01:36 |
| RiD | i can't rewatch anything | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | Macer, witch and her son was mroe interesting :D | 01:36 |
| RiD | or re read books | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | were* | 01:36 |
| Macer | isnt twin peaks like.. a soap opera? | 01:36 |
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| Estel_ | Macer, lol? | 01:36 |
| Macer | like dallas or something? | 01:36 |
| Raimu | :D | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | I would risk to say that 90% of people doesn't get twin peaks plot at all, so probnably not ;) | 01:36 |
| Macer | i always thought it was one of those everybody is rich 90s types of shows | 01:36 |
| Estel_ | it's quite psychodelic | 01:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Twin peaks had a plot? | 01:36 |
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| Macer | SpeedEvil: LOL | 01:37 |
| Raimu | :DDD | 01:37 |
| Raimu | How's Annie? Good night. | 01:37 |
| RiD | *spam mode* any mechanical keyboard user? | 01:37 |
| Macer | i have my old ibm keyboard still :-P with mechanical keys | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm using an old IBM trackpoint keyboard. | 01:37 |
| SpeedEvil | But it's not properly mechanical | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | whatever You mean by mechanical keyboard | 01:38 |
| Macer | the clickyclacky ones | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | it is something that write without computer use? :D | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | In the usual sense. | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It's similar to a thinkpad laptop | 01:38 |
| Macer | that thing can get ran over by a car and still work haha | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | heh, I got keyboard with big buttons. | 01:38 |
| RiD | I'm not of those times. I'm post 90. | 01:38 |
| RiD | But erm, I want one | 01:38 |
| Estel_ | no, keyboards with big buttons are much better and more comfortable for writing ;) | 01:38 |
| Macer | all newer keyboards use that lame plastic/rubber circuit board thing | 01:38 |
| RiD | ^ exactly why i want to change | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | At the moment, I'm using the keyboard under the blankets. | 01:39 |
| Macer | made in china | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | The trackpoint is awesome for this. | 01:39 |
| RiD | my microsoft have had it's time | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | Macer, I bought mine for 5 $, It even got USB 1.1 HUB :D | 01:39 |
| Macer | the ibm had actual mechanical keys | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | and it's USB! :P | 01:39 |
| RiD | SpeedEvil that looks perv | 01:39 |
| Macer | Estel_: because it's made in a sweatshop ;) | 01:39 |
| Macer | probably cost them $0.10 to make | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | RiD: I got into the habit over the winter, with no heating | 01:39 |
| Raimu | I have a buckling spring IBM keyboard, but I just shelved it a couple of weeks ago 'cause my spouse had a problem with the noise. | 01:39 |
| Macer | slave labor helps | 01:39 |
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| Estel_ | no no, my keyboard got big buttons and it's "old style" for mopst, yet, it'sUSB with hub :P | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | and got one awesome feat: | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | *fanfares* | 01:39 |
| Macer | Raimu: heh.. eyah.. they clack really loud | 01:39 |
| Estel_ | '\' key below 'Return' | 01:40 |
| Macer | but they'll never mess up on you | 01:40 |
| RiD | I don't care if the keyboard is loud | 01:40 |
| RiD | all I want is to make it easier for me to type faster | 01:40 |
| Estel_ | (and above ctrl) | 01:40 |
| RiD | 120WPM and bottoming out every key sometimes is not cool | 01:40 |
| Macer | RiD: then just type more heh | 01:40 |
| Raimu | Macer: I loved the clickety-clack and the tactile perfection, but this generic USB keyboard is all right for now. | 01:40 |
| Macer | believe it or not i found that the MS ergo keyboards were actually pretty good | 01:40 |
| Macer | cheap overpriced made in china crap... but still good :) | 01:40 |
| Macer | but that's everything post 1990 | 01:41 |
| Raimu | Yeah, it's kinda hilarious that a 1988 keyboard still works fine. | 01:41 |
| RiD | and *better* | 01:41 |
| Raimu | Yes! | 01:41 |
| Macer | Raimu: my parents have a stereo receiver from the 70s that still works.. and is better | 01:41 |
| SpeedEvil | I hated the MS natural keyboard | 01:41 |
| Macer | anything you buy nowadays lasts 5 years | 01:41 |
| Macer | then mysteriously dies | 01:41 |
| Macer | china keeping its business going | 01:41 |
| RiD | https://dl.dropbox.com/u/1536586/overclock.net/20120624_002.jpg | 01:42 |
| RiD | i hate that thing | 01:42 |
| Macer | that's not an ergo keyboard | 01:42 |
| RiD | I'm not saying it is | 01:42 |
| RiD | that's my keyboard | 01:42 |
| Macer | i still use a logitech keyboard from like 2000 heh | 01:42 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/IBM-Computer-Keyboard-US-English-PS-2-with-UltraNav-NEW-/190690477732?pt=PCA_Mice_Trackballs&hash=item2c6609c6a4 | 01:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Though I have the one with the big enter | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | my one have big enter | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | and \ below enter and above ctrl :D | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | it's epic for games, if someone doewsn't use WSAD | 01:43 |
| Estel_ | I was using cursors for ages | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | and writing on "mechanical" one is great | 01:44 |
| RiD | every recent mechanical keyboard is so $ :( | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | funny, because as said, I bought mine for 5$ | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | and it's still USB interface | 01:44 |
| Estel_ | of course it was used | 01:44 |
| Macer | SpeedEvil: wow that thing is ugly | 01:44 |
| RiD | USB doesn't mean it's better anyways | 01:44 |
| Raimu | These guys bought the rights to the old IBM design, by the way: http://www.pckeyboard.com/ | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | its BTC, mine | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Macer: Meh. Works well for my use-case. | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | Rid, USb mean I can connect it to notebook or N900 | 01:45 |
| Raimu | Theirs are replicas, apparently workable but a little cheap on the materials. | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | while Ps/2 can't | 01:45 |
| Macer | like i said .. ihave one of those giant ibm ones | 01:45 |
| RiD | Estel_ well, you're right there | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | except for adapters, that doesn't work on more than 2 keys pressed at once | 01:45 |
| Macer | with the clacking keys heh | 01:45 |
| Estel_ | or even 1 | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I have the above - with a USB adaptor. | 01:45 |
| RiD | look at that website and their products | 01:45 |
| Macer | the ones where you can remove the keys | 01:45 |
| Macer | :) | 01:45 |
| RiD | everything above 80 dollar | 01:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Which works fine for multi-keys | 01:45 |
| Macer | those things are classic | 01:45 |
| merlin1991 | anybody know how to dump the tracker mime mapping database to a human readable format | 01:45 |
| merlin1991 | or where it is even located? | 01:46 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, finding correctly working adaptor wasn't possible for me, so I was glad like hell when found my one | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I've got abotu 5 I think. | 01:46 |
| Macer | merlin1991: hey... with talk like that you might win a dev award and get a free device! | 01:47 |
| * Macer hides | 01:47 | |
| merlin1991 | Macer: good one :D | 01:47 |
| RiD | hiding isn't enough, RUN!! | 01:47 |
| Macer | get on the council and you win automatically! woooo!! | 01:47 |
| Macer | (HIGH FIVES!) | 01:47 |
| RiD | http://pckeyboard.com/page/category/KBDCFG | 01:47 |
| Macer | heh | 01:47 |
| RiD | custom keyboard 0$ :D | 01:47 |
| merlin1991 | nah honestly I'm trying to debug why a cssu update for tracker removed the ogg/flac dataminig | 01:47 |
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| merlin1991 | and my bet is on it got lost in the db, but I can't know for sure without actually checking that :D | 01:48 |
| Macer | merlin1991: you should worry more about maemo.org going down .. hope people moved all that stuff by now :) | 01:48 |
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| Macer | pretty sure a penny pincher at nokia will notice it sooner or later | 01:48 |
| merlin1991 | *not sure if mocking me* | 01:49 |
| RiD | every keyboard i search on amazon with blue or brown switches are over 70 dollar | 01:49 |
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| vi__ | I would like to bump the ban abill_uk thread. Would this be in bad taste? | 01:50 |
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| Macer | OMG.. i'm watching the last house | 01:50 |
| Macer | wtf happened to kumar.. he is a fatass | 01:50 |
| RiD | kumar is cool on Harold&Kumar | 01:50 |
| RiD | too bad the last one ( A Very H&K Christmas ) sucked | 01:50 |
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| Macer | i only saw the white castle one | 01:51 |
| Macer | merlin1991: half mocking. half true. ;) | 01:51 |
| RiD | the 2nd one has bottomless party and obama binladen bottom beard | 01:51 |
| RiD | Interested enough? | 01:51 |
| RiD | http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81ajUqtGOCL._AA1500_.jpg what's wrong with that keyboard | 01:53 |
| robbiethe1st | The win button? | 01:53 |
| Macer | heh | 01:54 |
| trx | win button is not a problem | 01:54 |
| trx | f1 - f4 is :) | 01:54 |
| RiD | i don't see how people even like those keyboards | 01:55 |
| Macer | lol | 01:56 |
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| merlin1991 | hm the win button is the only one that makes sense | 01:59 |
| merlin1991 | because it most probably toggles the mod4 or however the key is for the windows signed button | 01:59 |
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| RiD | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0-X1-1lk-Q&feature=g-all-u | 02:03 |
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| kerio | swollen battery. throw away immediately? (y/n) | 02:06 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: yes | 02:06 |
| Estel_ | kerio, could You elaborate? | 02:06 |
| kerio | goddammit this is my second battery | 02:07 |
| kerio | and i need to swap them to charge them | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: wrap it in something, there is a nonzero chance it may catch fire. | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 02:07 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: it's not *that* swollen | 02:07 |
| Estel_ | You mena that it become "bigger" thicker, than it should? | 02:07 |
| kerio | Estel_: yeah | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: Well - as long as you're happy with it gushing fire next to your genitals. | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | from rpactice, I would except no more than decreased capacity, but if it becomes bigger and bigger, SpeedEvil is right, it may catch fire/explode/whatever | 02:08 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: i'm at home | 02:08 |
| kerio | it's far away from my genitals | 02:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | You don't keep Your genitals at home? | 02:08 |
| kerio | Estel_: i don't keep them on my desk | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | sounds reasonable :) | 02:08 |
| Estel_ | the problem is with it seeding fire to Your house/desk, then | 02:09 |
| kerio | stupid cheap batteries | 02:09 |
| SpeedEvil | kerio: you should get an ergonomic desk, so you can. | 02:09 |
| kerio | haha | 02:09 |
| kerio | i don't think "ergonomic" means that | 02:09 |
| Estel_ | docking station ;0 | 02:09 |
| kerio | anyway | 02:09 |
| kerio | this means that my phone is unusable during the night | 02:10 |
| kerio | fun stuff | 02:10 |
| kerio | i can either buy a new battery or a new phone, i suppose | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 02:11 |
| kerio | SpeedEvil: i have no way to repair mine | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | I would not be very worried if it was a nokia battery | 02:11 |
| kerio | the usb port is broken since like two years now | 02:11 |
| kerio | it's not | 02:11 |
| SpeedEvil | but a third party battery is a bad thing. | 02:11 |
| Estel_ | kerio, why not sending device for fix somewhere? | 02:11 |
| kerio | the nokia battery i have is *vaguely* firmer than it was | 02:11 |
| kerio | Estel_: like where? | 02:11 |
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| Estel_ | kerio, from time to time, I have very good/ideal condition devices for 180 euro, WITH reinforced USB port | 02:12 |
| kerio | hm | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | all with foil on screen | 02:12 |
| kerio | but the galaxy s3 just came out! | 02:12 |
| robbiethe1st | Get a couple of those Japod/scud replacements; the ones with the same real capacity as the Nokia ones | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | kerio, who care about android shit, lol? | 02:12 |
| kerio | Estel_: i know, i know | 02:12 |
| kerio | but it's a fucking quad core | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | robbiethe1st, scuds and japods got bigger capacity | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | kerio, nice, they can use fuckin quad core to encrypt spying on You | 02:12 |
| Estel_ | and You can use fuckin quad core to play nagry birds and browse we b | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | web* | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | and check mail | 02:13 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, slightly. | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | sounds like a deal | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | ... | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | robbie, scud was 1530 mAh | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | it's no longer manufactured, though | 02:13 |
| kerio | Estel_: i'll probably end up buying a new n900, yeah | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | well, the one I have from time to time are use,d by in very good/ideal condition. I'm reinforcing their usb ports myself. | 02:13 |
| Estel_ | + checking every sensor, etc | 02:13 |
| kerio | Estel_: shipping from where? | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | Poland | 02:14 |
| kerio | huh, it's not even that far | 02:14 |
| kerio | i'm in italy | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | yea, postal inside EU, should be quite fast :) | 02:14 |
| kerio | Estel_: never had to deal with the italian mail service, huh | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | at leats you know that it doesn't contain hidden malfunctions | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | kerio, same for polish :P | 02:14 |
| merlin1991 | Estel_: unless customs fucks you up again :D | 02:14 |
| Estel_ | still, it's better than sending to USA or australia | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | merlin1991, I'm bulletproof now :P | 02:15 |
| merlin1991 | how? :D | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | experienced earned :p | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | I'm sending documents to customs every time I send package :p | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | could kiss my ass now | 02:15 |
| merlin1991 | hehe | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | in fact, it seems that they've started to forward my packages without chercking, lol | 02:15 |
| merlin1991 | srly with the eu and everything it should be easier | 02:15 |
| Estel_ | maybe I should start smuggling opium | 02:15 |
| kerio | hm, there's a used n900 for 31,50€ on ebay.it | 02:16 |
| kerio | with "software problems", he says | 02:16 |
| robbiethe1st | Get it! | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | kerio, lol, so go and buy it. then report back what is it :P | 02:16 |
| kerio | the auction ends in like 10 hours | 02:16 |
| kerio | hm | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | I suspect broken USb OR non workling modem OR it's not N900 :p | 02:16 |
| robbiethe1st | I've fixed a couple through reflashing. | 02:16 |
| kerio | nah | 02:16 |
| kerio | it's probably been overclocked into shit | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | whats problem with it | 02:16 |
| Estel_ | overlocking danger is a myth, unless someone keep it at 1000 or more. | 02:17 |
| kerio | "it locks up sometimes" | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | haha | 02:17 |
| kerio | sold as not working | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | speedpatch, probably | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | well, i rather expect gsm modem going retardish | 02:17 |
| robbiethe1st | I'd say it's likely fixable by reworking the voltage if it crashes at a certain frequency. | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | robbie, either it's crap in software, or malfunctioning hardware | 02:17 |
| robbiethe1st | ...Or just swap issues | 02:17 |
| Estel_ | kerio, could You spare link? | 02:18 |
| kerio | ugh, what link do i have to copy? | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | url? | 02:18 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, seems to me that if you had a borderline N900 CPU, you might fix it by overvolting it slightly, to get it stable again. | 02:18 |
| kerio | http://www.ebay.it/itm/170862551308 | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | robbiethe1st, kp50 does it for You (in fact, 49 too) | 02:18 |
| Estel_ | Sr stable for up to 900 mhz | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | BTw, congratz on won N9 :) | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | won/awarded, whatever | 02:19 |
| robbiethe1st | Yeah, I saw that a couple days ago. | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | :) | 02:19 |
| kerio | i could probably sell mine for like 100€ | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | welcome to the club of undeserving bastards :) | 02:19 |
| kerio | broken usb port, but everything else works | 02:19 |
| robbiethe1st | What surprised me was the lack of interest overall... there wasn't a whole lot of names on the applicants list | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | kerio, quite possible | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | then only 90 to get perfectly working one :p | 02:19 |
| Estel_ | 80* | 02:19 |
| kerio | Estel_: interested in a swap? | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | robbie, TF | 02:20 |
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| Estel_ | kerio, no way :D | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | robbiethe1st, wtf? | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | la;ck of interest? | 02:20 |
| kerio | ok fine, a swap and a bit of money | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | we got spammed to heil by applications | 02:20 |
| robbiethe1st | I only saw like 60-80 names on the wiki | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | kerio, no way, sell it somewhere :P | 02:20 |
| robbiethe1st | for like 60 devices? | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | robbie, for 25 devices | 02:20 |
| robbiethe1st | Oh, well, still, same thing | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | rest 75 was divided between qt5, nokia store, and CC | 02:20 |
| Estel_ | 60-80 is too much for me. | 02:21 |
| robbiethe1st | I recall the N950 giveaway... there was a /lot/ of applicants | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | it was prize for god damnit contributions | 02:21 |
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| robbiethe1st | Yeah. | 02:21 |
| kerio | Estel_: let's say i wanted to buy a n900 from you | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | well, we've dropped some idiots registered 4 months ago and doing 1 project, scavenged from javispedro work... | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | and demanding N950 | 02:21 |
| Macer | jesus | 02:21 |
| kerio | hypothetically | 02:21 |
| Estel_ | it even started little flamewar on TMO ;0 | 02:21 |
| Macer | they didn't just cancell house | 02:21 |
| Macer | they totally killed him haha | 02:21 |
| robbiethe1st | wow, yeah | 02:22 |
| kerio | they did what? | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | killed House (not actor playing him :P ) | 02:22 |
| robbiethe1st | (also, I'm definitely in the undeserving bastard list. And I know it) | 02:22 |
| Macer | yeah haha | 02:22 |
| kerio | oh, the finale of season 8? | 02:22 |
| Macer | didn't see that happening | 02:22 |
| Estel_ | kerio, so what about hyphotetical situation? | 02:22 |
| kerio | yeah, it was unexpected | 02:22 |
| Macer | yeah.. they totally killed him haha | 02:22 |
| kerio | Estel_: do you have one to sell now? | 02:22 |
| Macer | his mail order bride was hot | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | I can have in few days to two weeks max | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | Macer, wtf bwas that about mail order bride? saw about 15 seconds of this episode | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | when he was getting maried | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | and said to her, that he don't sleep with married women | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | nothing else | 02:23 |
| kerio | Estel_: for how much? | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | 180 euro + shipping | 02:23 |
| Macer | Estel_: yeah haha... he mail ordered her | 02:23 |
| kerio | hm | 02:23 |
| Estel_ | with reinforced USB, and every aprt chercked as thoroughly as possible | 02:24 |
| Macer | that was pretty funny | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | Macer, I though she's immigrant or whatever | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | getting married to get green card or smth | 02:24 |
| kerio | Estel_: not anymore, she's got a green card now :D | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | :p | 02:24 |
| kerio | Macer: saw the whole episode? | 02:24 |
| Estel_ | erm, afraid to ask, but why he mail ordered bride? | 02:24 |
| kerio | it wasn't a mail order bride | 02:24 |
| kerio | it was... huh, right after he broke up with cuddy? | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | nice to know that he was with cuddy at all ;) | 02:25 |
| kerio | she was a prostitute, i think | 02:25 |
| Macer | kerio: yeah haha | 02:25 |
| Macer | kerio: no i'm still watching it | 02:25 |
| Estel_ | still, why getting married? weedings suxx. | 02:25 |
| Macer | he faked his own death ahhaa | 02:25 |
| kerio | Estel_: she gets a green card, he gets a housemaid+benefits in the time it takes for her to get the green card | 02:26 |
| kerio | and, like, money | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | kerio, sounds nice, but afaik he dropped benefits. I know better ways to get housemaid than getting married | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | not to mean doing cleanming on Your own :P | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | I still think I preffer first 3 seazons :P | 02:26 |
| kerio | how should i dispose of this battery? | 02:26 |
| Estel_ | eat it. | 02:27 |
| kerio | my first instinct is to throw it out of the window | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | give it away to any shop selling batteries | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | in EU, they're supposed to take it back | 02:27 |
| kerio | second instinct is the general garbage | 02:27 |
| Macer | he fell in love with her | 02:27 |
| Macer | she's hot | 02:27 |
| Macer | heh | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | Macer, watching last episode? | 02:27 |
| kerio | Estel_: never had to deal with *anything* in italy, huh? | 02:27 |
| Macer | at the end he found out like she was soviet scientist smart :) | 02:27 |
| Estel_ | Macer, 0_o? | 02:27 |
| Macer | i miss the cold war | 02:28 |
| Macer | i'm still watching it | 02:28 |
| Macer | last episode now | 02:28 |
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| Estel_ | Macer, you know watching Tv eats Your brain? | 02:28 |
| Macer | so are they going to start up Chase MD now? :-P | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | listen to Radio instead :P | 02:28 |
| kerio | so... new n900 or dumbphone+openpandora? | 02:28 |
| Estel_ | kerio, openpandora sounds like machine for gaming, mostly. And if You can have something of this size... | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | You could as good buy notebook/netbook | 02:29 |
| Macer | just don't get a chromebook | 02:29 |
| kerio | hehe | 02:29 |
| Estel_ | anyway, if You're interested more than hyphoteticaly, don't forget to tell me, so I can start searching for it ;0 | 02:29 |
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| kerio | i'll get to you tomorrow | 02:30 |
| kerio | well, today, but after i sleep | 02:30 |
| Macer | haha... the black dude knows he faked his death | 02:30 |
| Macer | he left his id in his office on purpose | 02:31 |
| *** SmilybOrg is now known as Guest53022 | 02:31 | |
| kerio | Macer: wow, you really know the characters well huh | 02:31 |
| Macer | i'm bad with names.. foreman? | 02:31 |
| Estel_ | and what happened to soviet green card hottie ;) | 02:31 |
| kerio | eyup | 02:31 |
| Macer | i remember wilson because hes awesome ;) | 02:31 |
| kerio | hmm, there's an auction for a n900 ending in two days | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | well, i liked sense of humour of staff themselves | 02:32 |
| kerio | wasn't there a revision where they made the usb port stronger? | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | when hot redhead turned blonde, and asked house about new look... | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | he answered that she looks like prostitute now | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | which was, in fact, entirely true | 02:32 |
| Macer | no | 02:32 |
| Macer | haha | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | I bet someone from staff got this idea ;) | 02:32 |
| Estel_ | kerio, in facty no revisions | 02:33 |
| Macer | the soviet russian mail order bride was gorgeous | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | some got it normal, i.e. can fell off | 02:33 |
| Macer | is gorgeous | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | and some got it fucked up i.e. cold solder point i.e. it will definitelly break | 02:33 |
| kerio | "yay" | 02:33 |
| vi__ | kerio: not really, they all sucked. | 02:33 |
| Estel_ | Macer, i don't care, just tell me what happened to her :P | 02:33 |
| kerio | goddammit nokia | 02:33 |
| Macer | that was a lame ending still tho haha | 02:33 |
| Macer | Estel_: er... she is fine i suppose | 02:33 |
| Macer | they split up | 02:34 |
| *** SmilyOrg has quit IRC | 02:34 | |
| Estel_ | no nuclear war starting? :( | 02:34 |
| kerio | Macer: did cuddy appear at all? i forgot | 02:34 |
| Estel_ | what a shame | 02:34 |
| Macer | no :( | 02:34 |
| Macer | kerio: no heh | 02:34 |
| Macer | she was the only one | 02:34 |
| Macer | wonder what happened to that woman.. even his ex wife popped up .. the one from like the first seasons | 02:34 |
| kerio | stacy | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | BTw, I just bought genuine, perfectly working BH-214 (in ideal condition) for ~10$ including shipping | 02:35 |
| kerio | meh, lisa edelstein probably just got bored | 02:35 |
| Macer | she was pretty hot for an older woman | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | I wonder why people ever buy more expensive ones | 02:35 |
| Estel_ | it got everything You expect from bluetooth adapter, heh | 02:35 |
| Macer | lisa edelstein isn't that good of an actress to just be "bored" | 02:35 |
| Macer | heh | 02:35 |
| kerio | Estel_: i have a pair of behind-the-neck earbuds | 02:35 |
| Macer | she was in what? west wing for like 4 episodes.. then house for like 5 years? | 02:35 |
| kerio | hehe | 02:35 |
| Macer | in west wing she was a whore :) | 02:35 |
| kerio | anyway, definetely going to sleep right now | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | definitelly good night ;) | 02:36 |
| kerio | thanks for your advice, guys | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | no problem, just doesn't throw Your batgtery into general garbage :p | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | battery* | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | vi_, you old scum, welcome to club of undeserving bastards :D | 02:36 |
| *** retro|cz has quit IRC | 02:36 | |
| Estel_ | we should found our own piratebay | 02:36 |
| Estel_ | sail ho! | 02:37 |
| Macer | is vi__ part of the N950 thieving council? | 02:37 |
| * Macer hides again | 02:37 | |
| Estel_ | yes! he is supreme Councilor! | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | Palpatine! | 02:37 |
| Estel_ | or was he chancellor, in fact | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | anyway | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | when vi_ rises his hand, lighning sparks come out | 02:38 |
| Estel_ | Macer, btw, you're joking, or really believing those BS?;) | 02:39 |
| Macer | i'm teasing | 02:39 |
| *** retro|cz has joined #maemo | 02:39 | |
| Estel_ | ~striptease | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | damn, infobot doesn't listen to me :( | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | s/doesn't/does/ | 02:39 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: damn, infobot does listen to me :( | 02:39 |
| Macer | heh | 02:39 |
| Estel_ | heh, sometimes, it does | 02:39 |
| Macer | only to correct you | 02:39 |
| *** Estel_ is now known as muhomozor | 02:39 | |
| muhomozor | ~striptease | 02:40 |
| infobot | Hoogah Hoogah wah wah *takes of the box* *dances around showing of the cpu and memory* Ah yeah you likey my little HD no? | 02:40 |
| *** muhomozor is now known as Estel_ | 02:40 | |
| Macer | i'm just messing with them.... i'd scam free N950s too if i could :) | 02:40 |
| Macer | power to them | 02:40 |
| Macer | not like those other developers are going to do much with them anyways | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | the funniest thing, is that councilors applying folr devicews were discutted at april | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | and everyone encouraged them to | 02:40 |
| Estel_ | then, it was raised at TMo, and only geneven made some on liner about it, others were "OK" | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | then, when some 4 months old "members" diden't receive device, 4 other people started shitstorm on forum | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | quite funny | 02:41 |
| Macer | heh.. i thought the awards were for development contribution? | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | not to mention ZogG, who said that annoucement on mailinglist, TMO, wiki, and IRc is not enough, as not everyone is supposed to know what is hap[pening inside Community, LOL | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | Macer, nope. | 02:41 |
| Macer | is there some way to quantify it? like... is it lines of code? | 02:41 |
| Estel_ | Ca was for community Contributions | 02:41 |
| Macer | or like... someting else? | 02:41 |
| *** vi__ has quit IRC | 02:42 | |
| Estel_ | 75 devices were for coders | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | 25 for community contributors, as per general involvement | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | aka Community Awards | 02:42 |
| Macer | so whoever kissed the most developer ass? :) | 02:42 |
| Macer | LOL | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | I don't get You. | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | what developers does have to do with it? | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | forget developers in conjuction with CA | 02:42 |
| Estel_ | developers doesn't exist. | 02:43 |
| Macer | well... you sai 75 for devs and 25 for... whom exactly | 02:43 |
| Macer | what defines contribution? | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | well, freemangordon, merlin1991, i | 02:43 |
| Macer | i should have gotten one.. i'm in #maemo all day :) | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | 25 for mortal men, doomed to die. | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | iDont and other like that received it | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | due to involvement in Community | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, yea :D | 02:43 |
| Estel_ | Macer, i';ll drop You a link | 02:43 |
| *** rcg has quit IRC | 02:44 | |
| Macer | maybe i can get one based on irc logs for "most blabbering idiot on irc" | 02:44 |
| Macer | i wouldn't care... as long as i got an N950 someone can call me an idiot :) | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | Macer, see this | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | http://maemo.org/community/council/device_program-12-community_awards/ | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | everything explained there | 02:44 |
| Macer | 12? | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | 2012? | 02:44 |
| Estel_ | Mace,r it was posted on news, on mailing list, on TMO, on IRc, everywhere. no way You could have missed it :D | 02:44 |
| merlin1991 | even in here :D | 02:45 |
| Macer | heh... i was out of it after n900 #2 broke ;) | 02:45 |
| Macer | how many council members got devices? | 02:46 |
| merlin1991 | 4 | 02:46 |
| Macer | 4 of... 50? | 02:46 |
| merlin1991 | 5 | 02:46 |
| Macer | :) i'm guessing #5 already had like 3? | 02:46 |
| Macer | hehehe | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | are winners announced? | 02:47 |
| Macer | luke-jr: you didn't get one.. you're not part of the council! | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | Macer: :< | 02:47 |
| luke-jr | where's the list? | 02:47 |
| Macer | lol... i think they took you off the list because of gentoo! | 02:47 |
| Macer | go flame! | 02:47 |
| *** GhostRider has quit IRC | 02:47 | |
| RiD | my little clone has left. It's time for me to abandon this ship | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | :P | 02:48 |
| RiD | wait what i pressed close | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | luke-jr, list was announced on news, on TMO, and on mailing list | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | i.e. winners | 02:48 |
| *** RiD has quit IRC | 02:48 | |
| luke-jr | hmm, I missed it somehow | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | i.e. anywhere, where communtiy Members tend to hang | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | already, 4 days ago | 02:48 |
| Estel_ | or 5 | 02:48 |
| Macer | luke-jr: you might have won | 02:48 |
| luke-jr | still don't see it | 02:49 |
| Macer | there were 21 devices left after the council got their fill | 02:49 |
| Macer | for the mere mortals | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | Macer, don't overdo teasing, or someone may took You for serious | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | gor example, ZogG | 02:49 |
| Macer | all 75 developers got theirs ;) | 02:49 |
| Macer | if ever there were that many heh | 02:49 |
| Estel_ | he even tried to beg quil for stopping sending devices, lol. funny guy. | 02:49 |
| Macer | stop sending devices? :) | 02:50 |
| Estel_ | yes | 02:50 |
| Macer | wow... sounds like he was rather butt hurt | 02:50 |
| Macer | where is the tmo announcement for the winners? | 02:50 |
| luke-jr | well, looks like either it wasn't sent to ML or I got unsubscribed somehow…? :/ | 02:50 |
| Estel_ | he assumed that 4 morons on TMO is enough to make Nokia stop sending devices to freeman, merlin1991, iDont, robbiethe1st, me, vi_ , ivgalvez, and others | 02:50 |
| Estel_ | Macer, first post of flamewar | 02:51 |
| Estel_ | then, few people congratulated winners | 02:51 |
| Estel_ | and 4 trolls started breakfast | 02:51 |
| Macer | haha | 02:51 |
| Estel_ | and it got 40 pages in 3 days | 02:51 |
| Macer | meh... i am sure the council members put in quite a lot of work on things | 02:51 |
| Estel_ | You can't imagine how much, imagine trying to do consensus | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | for awarding 25 people | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | with 60 applicants | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | or so | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | 5 people were to agree who should get device, and who not | 02:52 |
| Macer | 21 :-P you can't count awarding yourself haha | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | research their contributions... | 02:52 |
| Estel_ | (many applicants were barely known) | 02:52 |
| Macer | i should have applied :) | 02:52 |
| Macer | damnit | 02:52 |
| Macer | i wouldn't have won but still :) | 02:52 |
| Macer | maybe i'd win the "raffle" phone | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | thin chances, as you're absent on mailing list, TMO, only here, on IRC :) | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | hehe | 02:53 |
| Macer | i hate mailing lists and tmo | 02:53 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: so the voting was biased against IRC? | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | we could award You with Nokia 1100 | 02:53 |
| Macer | http ruined the world | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | luke-jr, not exactly. | 02:53 |
| Macer | luke-jr: LOL | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | I was rather thinking about fact, that Macer didn't have a clue what's happening i nthe Community for last half year or so | 02:53 |
| Estel_ | which he admint on his own :p | 02:53 |
| Macer | tmo is only good to read the actual article... and skipping all the replies :) | 02:54 |
| Estel_ | Macer, some good development is going there to, for example, CSSu or ekrnel power | 02:54 |
| luke-jr | Estel_: PM | 02:54 |
| Estel_ | or saera, lately | 02:54 |
| Macer | Estel_: heh... i guess.. i read a few things and it turns into stuff like the 21 device flame war | 02:54 |
| Macer | only things worth reading were by robbiethe1st | 02:54 |
| Macer | heh | 02:54 |
| Estel_ | that one too | 02:55 |
| Macer | plus.. irc is real time ;) | 02:55 |
| Macer | (usually) | 02:55 |
| Macer | a web browser is for me to buy stuff or look for information.... i rarely use it for interacting with people | 02:56 |
| * luke-jr wonders if all the original N950 loaners are now owned | 02:57 | |
| Macer | i wonder if the most interesting man in the world got an N950 | 02:57 |
| Macer | laughing it up with monks while talking on his N950 | 02:57 |
| Macer | inside jokes with perfect strangers | 02:57 |
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| LaoLang_cool | How to set up a compiling env to compile simple c program on n900? | 02:59 |
| LaoLang_cool | What pkgs do I need? | 02:59 |
| Estel_ | LaoLang_cool, scratchbox | 03:00 |
| Estel_ | Macer, dalaj-lama? | 03:00 |
| Estel_ | ;) | 03:00 |
| LaoLang_cool | I can't compile even the hello.c | 03:00 |
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| LaoLang_cool | Estel_, I'm newbie, don't know scratchbox, do I need to install it? there isn't a pkg named scratchbox | 03:01 |
| LaoLang_cool | I'm learnging programming in C from the beginning | 03:02 |
| Estel_ | no idea, I never used scratchbox :) | 03:03 |
| ShadowJK | do you really mean "on N900"? | 03:05 |
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| ShadowJK | in that case, scratchbox is not the answer | 03:05 |
| LaoLang_cool | ShadowJK, yes, on n900 | 03:05 |
| LaoLang_cool | Not on a pc | 03:05 |
| ShadowJK | build-essential from sdk or sdk tools repo... but it'll eat up diskspace on / like crazy | 03:06 |
| ShadowJK | dunno if there's enough | 03:06 |
| LaoLang_cool | I want to compile the simplest c program, for example, hello.c | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Best to stick int on a chroot | 03:06 |
| SpeedEvil | then it works just fine | 03:06 |
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| LaoLang_cool | I don't need complicated compiling enviroment to built a complicated program | 03:07 |
| LaoLang_cool | I tried to install gcc-4.6, but it warns no stdio.h found | 03:07 |
| ShadowJK | gcc and libc-dev probably | 03:07 |
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| Estel_ | anyone know how to be sure that microSd card is genuine sandisk class 4? | 03:11 |
| Estel_ | or how to determine being genuine or not while buying? | 03:11 |
| LaoLang_cool | ShadowJK, thanks, will install them | 03:11 |
| Estel_ | I would like to finally buy 32Gb class 4 card for N900, but I'm sick of all not genuine ones, priced as genuine | 03:11 |
| ShadowJK | Sandisk class 4 will benchmark like Kingston/Transcend/A-data/etc class 10 :P | 03:12 |
| ShadowJK | atleast from before they bumped the class ratings lol | 03:12 |
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| ShadowJK | Estel_; go to sandisk.com, find a store or where to buy link. | 03:13 |
| ShadowJK | if prices elsewhere are significantly different, it's probably fake | 03:13 |
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| SpeedEvil | Buy from actual vendors. | 03:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Not sellers on ebay or amazon | 03:14 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 03:14 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if sandisk has their own store on amazon | 03:15 | |
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| SpeedEvil | I have my own store on Amazon. | 03:15 |
| RiD | what do you sell. | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Books. | 03:15 |
| RiD | books may contain your private data such as fingerprints that can later be used to accuse you of a crime you haven't commited | 03:16 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, thanks a lot | 03:16 |
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| Estel_ | any way to determine if card is from before they've bumped class ratings? | 03:17 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.amazon.co.uk/shops/Ian-s-Books | 03:17 |
| Estel_ | i'msearching for best card to use for booting different Os'es, and for swap | 03:17 |
| Estel_ | reportedly, SanDisk class 4 were kings | 03:17 |
| ShadowJK | Estel_; the old ones carried no class rating adverising, but the cards with a C4 on them were advertised as "Mobile ultra". The new cards come in "normal" colourscheme and a dual colour scheme, the dual colour being the faster variety. | 03:18 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, any ideas on SDXC performance re random I/O? | 03:18 |
| ShadowJK | nope | 03:19 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, I see | 03:19 |
| ShadowJK | I should order a 4gig of each of the new varieties to see if they suck now | 03:19 |
| Estel_ | :) | 03:20 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, wait, microSDHC with dual-colour scheme? | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | SSD class SD would be awesome | 03:20 |
| Estel_ | or dual-colour is only package? | 03:20 |
| SpeedEvil | with decent random write | 03:20 |
| Estel_ | or adaptor? | 03:20 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, SDXC have unsane adverttised read/write speed, but it's bulk, of course | 03:20 |
| ShadowJK | I do have a "Class 4 32g" on order from a reputable vendor, but it's been back ordered two weeks now, I suspect they dont actually exist | 03:20 |
| Estel_ | I wonder, if it's like class 6 and 10, i.e. at expense of random | 03:21 |
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| ShadowJK | i think card itself is dual colour | 03:21 |
| Estel_ | OK, will search for it | 03:21 |
| Estel_ | I suspect they've also rised price with those "ultra" :/ | 03:21 |
| Estel_ | BTw, isn't SDXC from 64 GB up? | 03:21 |
| ShadowJK | the old C4 were "Mobile Ultra". about 80 bucks for 32g. The old c2 32g were probably half that price | 03:22 |
| Estel_ | Eh, it's pity that we can't use compact flash :P | 03:22 |
| ShadowJK | but i might remember wrong | 03:22 |
| Estel_ | I would put it into mugen-sized cover | 03:22 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, any way to actually determine SD interface max speed (not card max speed)? | 03:23 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if, in "distant future" when one of flash-killer techjnology come to live, we have chance for super fast Sd form factor | 03:23 |
| SpeedEvil | There are already pretty super-fast ones | 03:24 |
| Estel_ | but i suppose that even RAM in microSD form wouldn't work as fast as it should, due to Sd interface limitations | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | 200 megabytes/s IIRC | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | uh, sd interface max speed doesn't change between cards | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | It does somewhat. | 03:24 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, I mean, erm, our sd card "port" | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | Some cards have different numbers of pins | 03:24 |
| RiD | my stupid harddrive barely gets 70MB/s | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | and some support 1.8V mode | 03:24 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 03:24 |
| SpeedEvil | you only get >50MHz clocks at 1.8V mode | 03:24 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, I mean, lets imagine RAM persisting without voltage applied, in form of SD card. Then, what is the limit of our itnerface? | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | RAM would be murderously slow as SD. | 03:25 |
| Estel_ | wut? | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It would make sense for swap | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | but little else. | 03:25 |
| Estel_ | well, swpa is what concerns me, but, why it should be slow for sd? | 03:25 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - compared to system RAM | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I would like a microSD with a gig of RAM and the rest flash | 03:26 |
| ShadowJK | i think my n8x0's sd is overclocked to 48MHz? is that right.. | 03:26 |
| Estel_ | yea. why? sd interface limitations? | 03:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Estel_: Pretty much | 03:26 |
| Estel_ | and how to determine those limits? even rough estimations? | 03:26 |
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| SpeedEvil | Estel_: Even the slowest RAM interface beats the fastest SD by a _large_ margin | 03:26 |
| Estel_ | of course | 03:26 |
| Estel_ | by orders of magnitude | 03:26 |
| Estel_ | that's why I'm asking about actual max speed of Sd interface :) | 03:27 |
| Estel_ | can't find this info anywhere | 03:27 |
| ShadowJK | Also sd has a large command overhead, so you need to transfer in larger blocks | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | I vaguely re,member I read the driver code, and found 25MHz | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Which would equal 12.5mbytes/s or so max | 03:27 |
| LaoLang_cool | ShadowJK, I've installed libc6-dev and gcc-4.6, but gcc-4.6 hello.c says: error trying to exec 'as': execvp: No such file or directory | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | - which I actually hit with one card | 03:27 |
| LaoLang_cool | what's wrong? | 03:27 |
| Estel_ | SpeedEvil, 0_o, so 40 MB/s read/wriote SDXC cards are for nothing? | 03:27 |
| SpeedEvil | Estel_: No, they won't work at that speed | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Estel_: you can never get >50MHz (25M/s) in the n900, as it doesn't support 1.8V SD voltages | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | (from memory) | 03:28 |
| Estel_ | I know that it's for selling them, but I can't belive that they're struggling to make it faster (60 MB/s, etc), without reason | 03:28 |
| Estel_ | I see | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - they work in some things | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Not the n900 though | 03:28 |
| Estel_ | but it at least work in other devices? | 03:28 |
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| Estel_ | any idea to "overclock" this 25mhz limit in N900? | 03:29 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK mentioned about overclocking it in n8x0? | 03:29 |
| ShadowJK | heh, maybe 48MHz patch is why I'm burning up sd cards in my n8x0 on a semi-annual basis.. | 03:30 |
| RiD | something in my head tells me that's going to burn | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: In principle, overclocking can lead to the regulator in the card overheating, or current limiting | 03:30 |
| ShadowJK | http://intr.overt.org/5.2008.43-mmc-kernel/README | 03:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I should read up on that, but I don't have a card that's likely to hit it | 03:31 |
| RiD | We could do a sd barbeque | 03:31 |
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| Estel_ | and what's the all fuzz about Sandisk "extreme" | 03:33 |
| Estel_ | labelled as "1" | 03:33 |
| Estel_ | can't find info if it's faster for both random and bulk, or not, on damn sandisk site | 03:33 |
| Estel_ | http://www.sandisk.com/products/mobile1-memory-products/sandisk-extreme-pro-microsdhc-uhs-i-card | 03:34 |
| Estel_ | looks like bulk read/wrtite nonsense | 03:34 |
| Estel_ | 95 MB/s | 03:34 |
| Estel_ | 16GB max | 03:34 |
| SpeedEvil | That'll go at 12.3M/s or so on n900 as stock | 03:35 |
| ShadowJK | i get about 20Megabytes/sec read speed on n900 emmc | 03:35 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: odd | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | I've never seen >12 | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | 12.4 | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | same as SD | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | - SD+MMC = ~20 | 03:36 |
| ShadowJK | yeah I only get 15-16 on uSD because my swap is there and I can't stop swap activity interfering with read | 03:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Is this n900? | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Have you overclocked this? | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | no | 03:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Odd | 03:37 |
| ShadowJK | it's all stock | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | oh | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | tweaked ioscheduler | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | echo 2048 >/sys/block/mmcblock*/queue/nr_request | 03:38 |
| ShadowJK | +s | 03:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Wacky | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | MMC is reading ~20 on this device | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I am 99.999% sure it was only ~13 on my prior | 03:41 |
| ShadowJK | I was pretty sure it slowed down over time on my prior | 03:41 |
| SpeedEvil | read | 03:41 |
| Estel_ | ndisk website all sdhc ultra re labeled as class 6 actually | 03:42 |
| Estel_ | I wonder if it's boosting class of 4 one | 03:42 |
| Estel_ | or that are crappy class 6 ones with slower random | 03:42 |
| * RST38h moos | 03:43 | |
| RST38h | EHLO ShadowJK | 03:43 |
| luke-jr | LaoLang_cool: Gentoo ;) | 03:43 |
| SpeedEvil | hey RST38h | 03:44 |
| ShadowJK | 11M / 12M on N810. | 03:46 |
| ShadowJK | almost 14M with sceduler tweak and cpu frequency lock (mmc clock or something tied to cpu clock, iirc) | 03:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Not bad. | 03:50 |
| ShadowJK | iirc on N8x0 there's only one sd interface, multiplexed by a nokia chip | 03:50 |
| cehteh | maybe thats why my n900 is so slow on parallel access .. they forgot to remove that code :] | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Mine doesn't slow down at all, oddly | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | well - ~10% | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Or at least the previous one - not benched this one | 03:57 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, SpeedEvil, what You would suggest as standarized, repeatable way of measuring SD card random I/O speeds? | 03:57 |
| Estel_ | on TMO, there is a threrad, that try to gather informations about best practices for testing cards for OUR purposes | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | gnu dd large block sizes | 03:58 |
| Estel_ | I/E bulk speed mentioned only as curiuosity, not determining factor | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:58 |
| Estel_ | random, random :) | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | that's complex | 03:58 |
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| Estel_ | yea | 03:58 |
| Estel_ | that's why I'm asking ;) | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | mount an ext2 partition, and compile gcc on it | 03:59 |
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| Estel_ | 0_o | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | that's a good one:) | 04:01 |
| ShadowJK | i use coffemug rebench with: -t stateless -d 60 -b 4k -s 4k -w rnd -o write | 04:03 |
| Estel_ | thanks a lot | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | will try it | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | BTW | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | http://img04.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/24/44/80/46/2444804622 | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | looks genuine, doesn't it?:P | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | especially this almost-splashed painting | 04:05 |
| Estel_ | photo of same card: | 04:06 |
| Estel_ | http://img04.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/24/44/80/46/2444804622_1 | 04:06 |
| Estel_ | less than 20 usd :P | 04:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | At that price, you'll want to run badblocks -w over it a few times, and dd random files to fill the space and compare | 04:09 |
| Estel_ | of course :p | 04:10 |
| Estel_ | I was rather joking | 04:10 |
| Estel_ | although, the funniest thing, is that it looks genuine, after all (yet used = probably weared out like hell) | 04:10 |
| Estel_ | Sandisk partner vendors have those cards for less than 40 usd | 04:11 |
| Estel_ | and that is price shown on 2nd photo | 04:11 |
| Estel_ | (99 pln) | 04:11 |
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| Estel_ | it seems, that he's just selling used card, with proof of purchase from genuine sandisk parnet (still, expecting wear like hell) | 04:12 |
| RST38h | Estel, you talk too much. | 04:13 |
| Estel_ | RST38h, You're silent too much ;) | 04:14 |
| Estel_ | whatever You're drinking, enjoy it, anyway | 04:14 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.jimms.fi/imagecache/2/4/62924_800x600_1.jpg | 04:16 |
| Estel_ | looks like fake? | 04:17 |
| ShadowJK | i think that's supposed to be genuine | 04:17 |
| Estel_ | without number under size? 0_o? | 04:17 |
| Estel_ | "serial" or how it'scalled | 04:17 |
| Estel_ | called* | 04:17 |
| ShadowJK | http://www.jimms.fi/imagecache/3/1/62931_800x600_1.jpg | 04:18 |
| * Estel_ nod | 04:18 | |
| Estel_ | refference image | 04:18 |
| Estel_ | could be prepared without serials | 04:18 |
| Estel_ | the truth is, that chinese folks ave very good at faking serial numbers too | 04:18 |
| Estel_ | so look is quite useless :/ | 04:18 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 04:19 |
| Estel_ | either need to buy from "where to buy" partner (almsot 40 USd for 32 Gb class 4) or half the price, bt with risk | 04:19 |
| Estel_ | s/bt/but/ | 04:19 |
| infobot | Estel_ meant: either need to buy from "where to buy" partner (almsot 40 USd for 32 Gb class 4) or half the price, but with risk | 04:19 |
| Estel_ | anyway, it's quite good price | 04:19 |
| Estel_ | even the higher one | 04:19 |
| Estel_ | older C4, as you described them, are 40 USd including shipping | 04:20 |
| Estel_ | idea for fun project - backcover made (almost) only of 32 Gb cards | 04:21 |
| Estel_ | pity, that it can't be paralleled, like batteries ;) | 04:22 |
| * RST38h yawns | 04:23 | |
| RST38h | Ok, the 32GB class 2/4 SanDisk uSDs are geniune | 04:23 |
| RST38h | I have no idea about ultras, sorry | 04:24 |
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| RST38h | But the normal class 2s/4s are present at SanDisk site, they have got part numbers, and I even bought one at RadioShack | 04:24 |
| ShadowJK | class 4 used to be called ultra | 04:25 |
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| ShadowJK | I have a suspicion they just bumped the ratings, 2->4, 4->6 | 04:25 |
| RST38h | no, ultras are a different breed | 04:26 |
| RST38h | I have not seen uSD ultras though, just regular SDs | 04:26 |
| RST38h | But they claim faster-than-class speeds | 04:26 |
| Estel_ | the thing is, if bulk speed is gained by sacrificing random I/O speed in ultras | 04:27 |
| ShadowJK | I've seen mobile ultra before, but they were always rare in the period when sandisk didn't advertise or market class ratings on microsd | 04:27 |
| Estel_ | (i.e. dual-color ones) | 04:28 |
| RST38h | SHadowJK: Not rare in the US, just expensive and Estel is right about speeds | 04:28 |
| ShadowJK | seems like it's divided into 3 categories now: http://www.sandisk.com/consumer-products/mobile-memory?utm_source=Cons_land_Mobile&utm_medium=Hyperlink&utm_campaign=ConsumerPageTracking | 04:28 |
| RST38h | Dunno if they actually sacrifice random access speeds, but their claims are mostly about bulk speeds, for photography | 04:28 |
| * Estel_ nods | 04:28 | |
| Estel_ | fun thing is that they claim it for android toys too, as per hd recording and such stuff | 04:29 |
| Estel_ | everything bulk | 04:29 |
| RST38h | don't see why not | 04:29 |
| Estel_ | well, it's about fact, that once again i'm searching for *older*product, because all available new ones focused on everything except usability for real stuff | 04:30 |
| Estel_ | same apply for mobile computer with Phone function - had to replace my N900's motherboard two days ago... | 04:31 |
| ShadowJK | seems like they claim the extreme version is good for multitasking | 04:31 |
| Estel_ | cause even N950 coming to me, let alone N9, is close to be half-as usable | 04:31 |
| Estel_ | ShadowJK, noticed that, but I don't belive it @ 40 MB/s speeds | 04:31 |
| Estel_ | good benchmark above everything, unfortunately, nowhere to be found. | 04:32 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK; Whatever they optimize, it still comes down to 48MHz over 4 wires | 04:32 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: So, I would take their claims with a grain of salt | 04:32 |
| Estel_ | well, i'm negotiating with that guy with used one - if he sell it to me for 15 USd, I'm taking the risk, for 32GB card its ok. After all, he is local one, and give guaranty on, at least, lack of bad blocks | 04:32 |
| RST38h | MMC+ will give you 8 wires and 96MHz though, but we are not talking MMC+ here | 04:33 |
| Estel_ | and what about CF and it's claims? | 04:33 |
| Estel_ | reportedly, faster ones, but of course bulky and I've no idea about random I/O there | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | Well I'd be happy with 1M/s random write | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | more than happy | 04:34 |
| Estel_ | of course. | 04:34 |
| Estel_ | it would be heaven | 04:34 |
| ShadowJK | currently it's about 16k/s on my sandisk mobile ultra card | 04:34 |
| Estel_ | BTw, lately, I did sd card mod for my wrt54gl over GPIO, and i'm happy with 800 KB/s of bulk speed :D | 04:35 |
| ShadowJK | which is about 4 times faster than Kingston class 6 card... | 04:35 |
| Estel_ | heh | 04:35 |
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| RST38h | meh | 04:35 |
| Estel_ | it's much easier, when it comes to hard drives | 04:36 |
| Estel_ | rotating speed, buffer speed and size, + size overall, and You're done... | 04:36 |
| ShadowJK | seagate for crunch crunch crunch, samsung for chukka chukka chukka, wd for whirrrrrrRRRR buzz buzz | 04:37 |
| ShadowJK | atleast maxtor supported the "please be quiet" and "please go fast" commands | 04:38 |
| ShadowJK | (but really needed a "please don't die" command more) | 04:38 |
| * RST38h always preferred Quantum | 04:39 | |
| RST38h | for whuuuuuuuuuuuuush | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fh6sd-kdFFg | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | My first hard drive. | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | (not actually mine, but same model) | 04:39 |
| SpeedEvil | - wierd noises | 04:41 |
| utanapischti | <--- st205 | 04:44 |
| Estel_ | lol, ShadowJK, nice one | 04:47 |
| Estel_ | It reminds me of someone who written program for amiga... | 04:47 |
| Estel_ | To play "el condore di pasa" on Amiga's floppy drive | 04:47 |
| cehteh | haha yes i had that :) | 04:47 |
| Estel_ | ...including some sounds being generated by actually *hitting* head at the border. Prolonged usage resulted in de-calibration of head :) | 04:48 |
| Estel_ | (floppy head, not user one) | 04:48 |
| Estel_ | cehteh, heh, I had amiga, but not this program | 04:48 |
| Estel_ | Amiga 600, actually | 04:48 |
| Estel_ | well, people who destroyed commodore - does they remind You of someone? :) | 04:48 |
| Estel_ | or maybe Commodore remind some company?:P | 04:48 |
| cehteh | i made a program that when you slapped with the hand on the desk it made the screen shake | 04:49 |
| Estel_ | even there, whole world =- despite lack of common internet, etc - known that they're killing it | 04:49 |
| Estel_ | 0_o | 04:49 |
| Estel_ | and it sensed it by what? | 04:50 |
| cehteh | took mouse input from the hardware and randomly repositioned the screen start positions on the hardware too | 04:50 |
| Estel_ | AFAIk amiga's havent' had accelerometer? | 04:50 |
| Estel_ | ah | 04:50 |
| Estel_ | lol | 04:50 |
| Estel_ | pre-accelerometer :) | 04:50 |
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| cehteh | that was around '90 ;) yes people where baffed | 04:50 |
| Estel_ | yea, i remember those fools using atari, and wasting 30 minutes to load game from TAPE, lol | 04:51 |
| cehteh | and shifting the screen was damn simple as the whole amiga was in sync with video hardware | 04:51 |
| Estel_ | killer-joke - accidentaly plug the power cable, when they were on 29 minute | 04:51 |
| * Estel_ nods | 04:51 | |
| cehteh | dont worry at 29:30 comes the read error anyways :) | 04:52 |
| Estel_ | :) | 04:52 |
| Estel_ | well, i had my amiga without HD, and I remember programs written in Amos | 04:52 |
| * cehteh remembers his first amiga harddrive | 04:52 | |
| Estel_ | I remember changing 12 diskettes of a program ;) | 04:52 |
| Estel_ | due to lack of hd | 04:52 |
| cehteh | 40MB .. came with 512KB RAM extension | 04:52 |
| Estel_ | well, i had 2MB of RAM extension for amiga itself, but not HD | 04:52 |
| cehteh | and costed 2500 german marks .. | 04:52 |
| Estel_ | 0_o | 04:53 |
| Estel_ | go back in time, and show Yourself N900 with 32GB +32Gb on microSD card | 04:53 |
| cehteh | maybe it was 2MB ram extension or 1MB .. cant remember | 04:53 |
| Estel_ | amiga 600, 500, or 120? | 04:53 |
| Estel_ | 1200* | 04:53 |
| cehteh | 500 1000 and later 3000 | 04:53 |
| Estel_ | :) | 04:54 |
| cehteh | cant really remember | 04:54 |
| Estel_ | well, someone booted open amiga Os version on RPi | 04:54 |
| cehteh | i have an old 320MB harddrive in the cellar which may hold some old work i did on the amiga then .. if it still works | 04:55 |
| Estel_ | it's a pity, that amiga emulator doesn't work well on N900 | 04:55 |
| cehteh | but i dont have a scsi controler for that | 04:55 |
| Estel_ | either too slow, or, like UAE-4ALL doens't support changing disk, lol | 04:55 |
| Estel_ | unfinished, as everything, what's touched by Smoku | 04:55 |
| Estel_ | heh, SCSI :) | 04:56 |
| Estel_ | almsot forget about that | 04:56 |
| Estel_ | and those mouse connectors, resembling VGA computer video one | 04:56 |
| Estel_ | hm, i remember vagule some adaptor to use PS/2 mouse too, or maybe it was other way around? | 04:56 |
| SpeedEvil | you may mean serial mice | 04:57 |
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| robbiethe1st | Hey guys, does anyone know about ReplayGain on the N900? | 06:55 |
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| robbiethe1st | Like, some way to provide a volume-compensation value on a per-track basis to the stock media player(potentially with a custom module/addon) | 06:57 |
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| kerio | does anyone actually use the date picker you get after removing the battery for too long? | 09:05 |
| kerio | i mean, i just tap "ok" and then connect to the internet and run ntpd -d | 09:07 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: The fennec repo is now at https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5 | 09:19 |
| zeq | freemangordon: When you have your account setup let me know and I'll add you as a collaborator. I've pushed the SetHighAccuracy and QtSensors prefix patches. | 09:20 |
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| zeq | freemangordon: something's wrong with the libstdc++ in my toolchain build :( (missing symbols) | 10:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: I recall FMG had a problem with malformed symbols in latest gcc, [when compil(ing|ed for) thumb] | 11:57 |
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| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: You can build gcc --with-mode=thumb which results in the toolchain libs etc being built as thumb, default is to build as ARM, which is what I did. Something went wrong with the linking of stdc++, I'm investigating... | 12:02 |
| zeq | Generating a sb-linaro-4.6-2012.06 toolchain now, maybe I'll have more luck with that | 12:03 |
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| zeq | 4.6-2012.06 seems ok | 12:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-06-07.log.html#t2012-06-07T19:33:31 | 12:08 |
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| zeq | looks like a different bug | 12:10 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: I think something must have just gone awry with th 4.7 build | 12:11 |
| zeq | I can't believe linaro would release a broken g++ compiler! | 12:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 12:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | here's another link: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-ssu-irclog/%23maemo-ssu.2012-06-07.log.html#t2012-06-07T01:08:31 | 12:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no clue if it's even related, just felt like pointing you at it | 12:13 |
| zeq | It's probably because I used the sb-toolchain-extras from the darcs repo (following the scratchbox guide) rather than the (much newer) latest stable tarball. | 12:15 |
| zeq | which is what I just did for the working 4.6 build | 12:15 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: two logs you are pointing to are one and the same problem, but with reverse order, i.e. first link is the solution, second - the problem :) | 12:16 |
| zeq | freemangordon: hi | 12:16 |
| freemangordon | hi | 12:16 |
| zeq | as just mentioned ^^ I have a working linaro-4.6 toolchain, the 4.7 one from yesterday isn't working for c++ | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: quite possible, and hi! | 12:17 |
| freemangordon | g++ abends or what? | 12:17 |
| zeq | libstc++ is missing symbols somehow | 12:17 |
| zeq | exact same config (except imported with a different sb-toolchain-extras) built 4.6 fine | 12:18 |
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| vi_ | Goodmorning gentlemen. | 12:18 |
| zeq | I'm trying 4.7 again now | 12:18 |
| freemangordon | zeq: which symbols? | 12:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: another topic: do you feel like I'm generally averse about your thumb hacking? | 12:18 |
| zeq | freemangordon: I think most of them | 12:19 |
| freemangordon | wait for google to translate averse :) | 12:19 |
| zeq | std::istream for example | 12:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~dict averse | 12:19 |
| infobot | Dictionary 'averse' (1 of 4): abhorrent, afraid, allergic, anti, antipathetic, at odds, averse to, backward, balky, contrary, cursory, differing, disaffected, disagreeing, disenchanted, disgusted, disinclined, disobedient, displeased, forced, fractious, hating, hesitant, hostile, ill-disposed, indisposed, indocile, involuntary, loath, loathing, mutinous, not charmed, opposed, perfunctory, perverse, put off, quailing, recalcitrant, recoiling, ... | 12:19 |
| vi_ | I think infobot dictionary is full of shit. | 12:20 |
| vi_ | He meant: | 12:20 |
| zeq | freemangordon: the fennec repo is ready for when you give me your github username :) | 12:20 |
| freemangordon | vi_: yeah, got it | 12:21 |
| vi_ | 'Do you think I ama hating when you be rolling on the thumb2 blunt homey?' | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | zeq: thanks | 12:21 |
| freemangordon | unfortunately I have to suspend fennec for a while, until I fix some packages (KPS and wireless-compat) | 12:22 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: TBH I don't know what to think | 12:22 |
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| freemangordon | But in general I assume you are | 12:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I adore your work, I'm just playing advocado diaboli when it comes to deploying stuff to generall unwashed masses | 12:23 |
| freemangordon | yeah, i know that | 12:23 |
| zeq | KPS? | 12:23 |
| vi_ | So much bromance in here. | 12:23 |
| zeq | ~KPS | 12:24 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: your second name is The Negatron Man :P | 12:24 |
| freemangordon | kerel-power-settings | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe :-D | 12:24 |
| vi_ | zeq: Kernel-power-settings. | 12:24 |
| zeq | ah ok | 12:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can live with that, you need those old farts as well | 12:24 |
| vi_ | zeq: A script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. | 12:24 |
| zeq | yup | 12:24 |
| vi_ | ^frequencies | 12:24 |
| zeq | I use it to undervolt ;) | 12:25 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I can live with you being a negatron man too, after all I am doing whatever I want :devil: | 12:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~KPS is kerneöpower-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. | 12:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 12:26 |
| vi_ | zeq: I do not use it. It has a funky bug that is very hard to trigger that most do not believe in the existence thereof. | 12:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dafaq | 12:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. | 12:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay | 12:26 |
| freemangordon | vi_: I was thinking to enable SR for kernel-cssu by default (in /etc/pmconfig) | 12:27 |
| zeq | freemangordon: if you push your fennec patches I can work on it when I have a little more time | 12:27 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how typos creep in on c&p | 12:27 | |
| freemangordon | zeq: I don't anything usable so far :( | 12:27 |
| freemangordon | s/ anything/ have anything/ | 12:28 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: zeq: I don't have anything usable so far :( | 12:28 |
| zeq | freemangordon: whatever you have is something to work from, email me it if it's easier | 12:28 |
| freemangordon | I was on the seaside during the weekend, so nothing changed | 12:28 |
| freemangordon | zeq: ok | 12:29 |
| freemangordon | will do it in the evening | 12:29 |
| zeq | steve<at>snewbury<dot>org<dot>uk | 12:29 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: but i'd rater clone that on github and do a MR | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~no, KPS is kernel-power-settings, a script to configure clocking frequecies, voltages etc. | 12:30 |
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| freemangordon | I don't know how to ask git to email a patch and not interested to learn :) | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal no, KPS | 12:31 |
| zeq | freemangordon: whatever suits | 12:31 |
| freemangordon | ok | 12:31 |
| * freemangordon is afk | 12:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsback | 12:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~botsnack | 12:31 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer05: thanks | 12:31 |
| zeq | vi_: so what's the KPS bug? | 12:32 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: I think that may be unwise without considering if KPS sets it to 0 before applying new settings. | 12:32 |
| zeq | fwiw I'm using SR without problems | 12:32 |
| vi_ | If someone were to set 250->1000 with SR@1 there be instareboots. | 12:32 |
| vi_ | ^insta-reboot. | 12:32 |
| zeq | vi_: probably for the best ;) | 12:33 |
| vi_ | zeq: Sometimes KPS will spazz out and start causing ~7000 wakeups per second and keeping the CPU out of C4. This kills the battery in ~6 hours. | 12:34 |
| vi_ | Only some people have reported this happening though. | 12:34 |
| zeq | how weird | 12:34 |
| vi_ | The only way to stop it from happening is to apt remove KPS. | 12:34 |
| zeq | My battery is getting worn out but it still lasts all day | 12:35 |
| vi_ | Admitedly this was KPS from ~1 year ago. Things MAY have changed since then. | 12:35 |
| vi_ | Either way, I prefer not to use KPS and just 'echo' my values to the relevant /sys/ entry. | 12:35 |
| vi_ | And set most stuff from /etc/pmconfig. | 12:35 |
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| vi_ | zeq: Yeah I use SR all the time as well. | 12:36 |
| vi_ | zeq: It rulez. | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd really like to see hard numbers | 12:37 |
| zeq | Advantage of KPS though is it does allow a fallback if a stupid value was set to default | 12:37 |
| vi_ | zeq: But there again, 'xterm' is my favourite app! | 12:37 |
| vi_ | zeq: correct. | 12:37 |
| zeq | mine too | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | how much in mA avg it does, on a 'normal' system | 12:37 |
| vi_ | zeq: My soultion: | 12:37 |
| vi_ | Dont be stupid. | 12:37 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: We do not agree on this one remember. | 12:37 |
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| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: Do you believe in undervolting? | 12:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you might not agree on me liking to see numbers :-D | 12:38 |
| Lava_Croft | its not a religion | 12:38 |
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| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: That is less volts==less power used. | 12:38 |
| GhostRider | fail | 12:38 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: Ok, I guess a good test would be: | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: yes, that's absolutely right | 12:39 |
| vi_ | 1. Read mAH | 12:39 |
| vi_ | 2. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes | 12:39 |
| vi_ | 3. Read mAH | 12:39 |
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| vi_ | 4. Enable SR | 12:39 |
| vi_ | 5. Play mp3 with mplayer for 30 minutes | 12:39 |
| vi_ | 6. Read mAH | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SAME mp3, at SAME volume | 12:40 |
| vi_ | 7. Compare | 12:40 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: obviously. | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 12:40 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: It would be an invalid test if ANYTHING other than SR was changed. | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously | 12:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 12:40 |
| vi_ | Yay science. | 12:40 |
| Lava_Croft | somewhere, there is someone who just knows this shit | 12:41 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05> vi_: yes, that's absolutely right | 12:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, we still fail to agree on disagreement | 12:42 |
| vi_ | ^either you are playing the longtroll or you must concede taht as less volts==less power used therefore; less power used==a lower mA. | 12:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm just interested in quatity of the effect | 12:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | qantity | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody doubts the basic effect is true | 12:43 |
| vi_ | I do not have numbers at the moment but surely you must acknowledge:a=b AND b=c therefore a=c. | 12:44 |
| Lava_Croft | is it that simple? | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think I don't need to comment this | 12:44 |
| vi_ | That was not a bollean AND by the way. | 12:45 |
| vi_ | ^boolean. | 12:45 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders if enabling SR might cause CPU overhead for switching regulators | 12:46 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 ... and/or increased power consumption for transfer of commands via McBSP2(?) | 12:47 | |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | but that's not exactly been my question | 12:47 |
| vi_ | Fine. | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just said, I'd like to see numbers, so we all know what we're talking about. No need for believe and religion in here | 12:48 |
| vi_ | FINE. | 12:48 |
| vi_ | I will write a bloody script to do this. | 12:48 |
| vi_ | You get your numbers see. | 12:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-D | 12:48 |
| vi_ | The numbers wont lie | 12:49 |
| vi_ | Then you will | 12:49 |
| vi_ | see | 12:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks! | 12:49 |
| vi_ | YOU WILL ALL SEE> | 12:49 |
| zeq | :D | 12:49 |
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| vi_ | N900 will be in offline mode, screen off at half volume with headphones plugged in. | 12:50 |
| vi_ | No other programs running. | 12:50 |
| Lava_Croft | reboot inbetween? | 12:50 |
| vi_ | 1 hour MP3. | 12:50 |
| zeq | just for fun, and to get the numbers since that seems to be the theme, I'm thinking about building a multilib softfp+hard glibc. | 12:51 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: I cannot see a need for a midway reboot. | 12:51 |
| Lava_Croft | never hurts to reboot inbetween two benchmarks | 12:51 |
| zeq | assuming I can fit it on my rootfs | 12:51 |
| Lava_Croft | run both mp3s after a clean boot and system has eased down | 12:51 |
| vi_ | zeq: have you not heard? eMMC is the new rootfs! | 12:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: oh yes, please keep screen off, it's controlled by ALS, this will spoil results | 12:52 |
| zeq | vi_: wouldn't that require a reflash? | 12:52 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Sure, Ok. The MP3 will be played 10 minutes after a reboot in offline mode. | 12:52 |
| vi_ | zeq: Nah, just a shitload of symlinks! | 12:53 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: not to annoy you, but just to make sure nobody can point a finger at anything:) | 12:53 |
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| Lava_Croft | make sure the planets are aligned too | 12:53 |
| Lava_Croft | and cut up a goat | 12:53 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: There WILL be pointing, but I assure you it will not be fingers. | 12:53 |
| Lava_Croft | looking at TMO, theres not much boners there to point with | 12:54 |
| Lava_Croft | ok, getting silly | 12:54 |
| vi_ | The scripcantation will be performed in a pentagram of N900s joined by a token ethernet ring. Each point shall be lit with the flaming candle of an N810 notification LED. | 12:55 |
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| vi_ | Lava_Croft: are you Lava_Croft from tremulous forums? | 12:56 |
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| Lava_Croft | used to be, yes | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Lava_Croft: if we want to go for the real thing, then you need a reboot before *each* test. Or we assume the system has reached a steady state regarding any such effects, after 2 or 3 days uptime, and playing 60min mp3 won't change it much. If you want to make sure you can do A, B, A, B tests and confirm your numbers for A1,2 and for B1,2 match | 12:56 |
| Lava_Croft | im tremulous furniture | 12:56 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: tremulous forums are a bit of a dark place tho | 12:56 |
| Lava_Croft | no idea what it looks like nowadays, i must admit | 12:56 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Hellish. | 12:57 |
| vi_ | The whole game went to shit. | 12:57 |
| vi_ | There are no decent servers anymore and all the admins are f****** | 12:57 |
| Lava_Croft | the game is fine, ive been with it nearly since its inception | 12:57 |
| Lava_Croft | and servers and admins are not the game | 12:57 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: agreed, | 12:57 |
| vi_ | ^,/. | 12:57 |
| Lava_Croft | ever heard of SatGNU? | 12:57 |
| vi_ | That is a US server innit? | 12:58 |
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| Lava_Croft | we ran a rather gestapo-administrated server from 2006 | 12:58 |
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| vi_ | I recognise the name. | 12:58 |
| Lava_Croft | games were fine there, but you had to act like a goddamn gestapo officer to keep people in line | 12:58 |
| Lava_Croft | tremulous is kind of dead tho | 12:58 |
| vi_ | tyup | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: oh, and please disable phone | 12:59 |
| Lava_Croft | none of the original devs really care anymore, and if they care, its only because they are annoyed with tremulous | 12:59 |
| vi_ | bwahaha, just thinking about trem made me press 't' in order that I may 'speak' | 12:59 |
| Lava_Croft | sad story tho, tremulous gameplay is still unique for a free game | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | network/recamping can massively spoil your power consumption numbers | 12:59 |
| Lava_Croft | heh, pressing T to talk has been an annoying 'error' since Quake | 12:59 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: obviously, phone will be in offline mode. | 12:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 12:59 |
| Lava_Croft | tYou always end up like this | 13:00 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: Doing NOTHING but playing the MP3. | 13:00 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: I may appear to be totally green but I am no cabbage. | 13:00 |
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| Lava_Croft | cabbage comes in several colours | 13:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: just an idea: maybe playing mp3 is more workload on DSP than on CPU | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SR might have more impact on e.g. numbercrunching | 13:01 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: he's using mplayer, don't worry :) | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | depending on whether DSP profits from SR same way as CPU does, or not | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 13:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: ok :-) | 13:02 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: I got banned from my favourite server in the end anyway. | 13:03 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: I stole all the admin GUIDs and started 'fixing' things. | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: never tought you're a vegetable. Just trying to pick up the pieces, to help | 13:04 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: oh, you are that person? | 13:04 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: twas a joke. | 13:04 |
| Lava_Croft | bad behaviour to wreck people's house after they decide they dont want you in their house:< | 13:04 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: yup, THAT person. (unless of course you are referring to the only other person to have done that) | 13:04 |
| Lava_Croft | i could be | 13:04 |
| Lava_Croft | i dont know who that other person is | 13:04 |
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| Lava_Croft | vcxzet? | 13:04 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Oh god, You should at least know the story before you condemn. | 13:05 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: was it your server | 13:05 |
| Lava_Croft | where you got banned from | 13:05 |
| vi_ | No. | 13:05 |
| Lava_Croft | case closed then. | 13:05 |
| Lava_Croft | lets not discuss shit like this anyway, i mean come on | 13:05 |
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| Lava_Croft | those people dont deserve the attention :D | 13:05 |
| vi_ | Well I WAS left in charge by the server admin. | 13:05 |
| vi_ | WHo went absent. | 13:05 |
| Lava_Croft | i have a simple rule: If its not your server, then dont bother | 13:06 |
| vi_ | He also left another kid with the same admin lvl. | 13:06 |
| Lava_Croft | what server was it | 13:06 |
| vi_ | into the wild. | 13:06 |
| vi_ | The other people get power mad. Rise up and remove the admins. | 13:07 |
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| Lava_Croft | i solved that by just handing out the max admin level to everybody | 13:08 |
| Lava_Croft | on the official servers | 13:08 |
| Lava_Croft | you had friends giving admin status to friends etc etc | 13:08 |
| vi_ | Then you have kickban wars. | 13:09 |
| Lava_Croft | i never stuck around for that shit | 13:09 |
| vi_ | Well, I was a victim if the kickban wars. SHould have walked away. | 13:10 |
| vi_ | The only other guy to do this was a guy from the 'one' clan. He is possibly the one you are thinking of, he went around fucking things up for everyone on EVERY server. | 13:10 |
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| Lava_Croft | well, there was a multitude of ways to fuck shit up on tremulous servers | 13:11 |
| Lava_Croft | like spamming the servers with fake clients | 13:11 |
| Lava_Croft | trem's original dev also is an n900 lover | 13:12 |
| Lava_Croft | almost got him to port trem to n900 | 13:12 |
| Lava_Croft | but thankgod he didnt bother | 13:12 |
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| vi_ | heh, it has been suggested that it could be played as a ioquake3 mod with GLES. | 13:12 |
| vi_ | I even offerd a $50 bounty for the first person to do it once. | 13:13 |
| Lava_Croft | probably wont run that well | 13:13 |
| vi_ | Back when I gave a fuck. | 13:13 |
| Lava_Croft | same goes for Darkplaces, the Quake engine port | 13:13 |
| Lava_Croft | tremulous would also be unplayable on n900 | 13:13 |
| Lava_Croft | oh boy, dear tremulous | 13:15 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: you could be a builder. | 13:15 |
| Lava_Croft | i wonder why i still regularly play that game | 13:15 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: yes, the only option basically | 13:15 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Every team needs a good builder. | 13:15 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Also fucking cheaters. | 13:15 |
| Lava_Croft | i can say that without question there is no tremulous player who has been building longer than i have :) | 13:15 |
| Lava_Croft | questionable honour | 13:15 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: The other reason I no longer play that shit. | 13:15 |
| Lava_Croft | oh, barely any cheaters | 13:16 |
| Lava_Croft | and if they cheat but still suck, i dont mind | 13:16 |
| Lava_Croft | these days people play GPP, the 1.2 GamePlay Preview | 13:16 |
| Lava_Croft | 'these days' meaning past 2 years orso | 13:16 |
| Lava_Croft | vi_: you are a euro, right? | 13:18 |
| vi_ | UK | 13:18 |
| Lava_Croft | nice, a briton | 13:18 |
| Lava_Croft | what server did you always play on? | 13:18 |
| Lava_Croft | dont think the servers we/you used to play on still exist | 13:19 |
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| vi_ | TBase->pornserv->various unnamed russian servers->POC clan server->into the wild (25 ping!) | 13:19 |
| Lava_Croft | ah yes | 13:19 |
| Lava_Croft | the Twins' server | 13:19 |
| vi_ | I suspect... | 13:19 |
| Lava_Croft | these days there's two 'official' servers | 13:20 |
| vi_ | ...They were not really twins. | 13:20 |
| Lava_Croft | i know | 13:20 |
| Lava_Croft | T-Base was the place where all the drunk polish people went to after they got banned from SatGNU | 13:20 |
| Lava_Croft | chances are we played together quite a few times, heh | 13:21 |
| Lava_Croft | small world, small world | 13:21 |
| vi_ | More than likely. | 13:21 |
| Lava_Croft | you might have even been using my builder binds! | 13:21 |
| vi_ | In fact certainly, I have seen your name. | 13:21 |
| Lava_Croft | well, my nickname is 'old' | 13:21 |
| vi_ | Not likely broski. | 13:21 |
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| Lava_Croft | aw, you should have | 13:21 |
| Lava_Croft | selecting buildables with mousewheel is good | 13:21 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: I had the MOST convuluted badass binds setups ever created in trem. | 13:22 |
| Lava_Croft | most folks just copied my binds | 13:22 |
| Lava_Croft | and edited those:) | 13:22 |
| vi_ | http://intothewild.tremulous.ro/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31&view=previous | 13:22 |
| Lava_Croft | the whole thing with binds was a whoefully unbalancing affair anyway | 13:22 |
| vi_ | read this and weep. | 13:22 |
| zeq | 4.7 is good now :) | 13:23 |
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| Lava_Croft | vi_: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=qlkuv5t30dbdiko0d8vejur9p2&topic=1038.0 | 13:23 |
| Lava_Croft | :) | 13:23 |
| zeq | I'll put up both 4.6 and 4.7 | 13:23 |
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| Lava_Croft | 5 year older post than yours, heh | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: call for topic? | 13:24 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: are you asking what I'm on about? | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: or rather - call "OT"? | 13:25 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: Older, certainly. Insanely over comlicated, definatley not! | 13:25 |
| Lava_Croft | well, they were complicated probably because you were new to quake configs | 13:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: no, I'm asking if you mind the OT convo | 13:25 |
| Lava_Croft | my Quakeworld configs also were ridiculous | 13:25 |
| vi_ | Sorry guys, we awere just getting a collective nostalgia boner. | 13:26 |
| zeq | oh, I'm happy to leave them to it | 13:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | no problem | 13:26 |
| Lava_Croft | hey, i still play tremulous! but we shall stop now:) | 13:26 |
| Lava_Croft | i was getting a somewhat questionable feeling about it anyway:) | 13:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | no, go ahead unless somebody calls "OT" | 13:26 |
| zeq | it's better than the seemly never-ending saga about CA | 13:26 |
| Lava_Croft | at least its no negative whining about whatever is happening on TMO | 13:26 |
| Lava_Croft | yes, haha zeq | 13:26 |
| Lava_Croft | i think OT should matter the moment someone has something OT to talk about | 13:27 |
| Lava_Croft | so that actual OT talking does get littered with random stuff | 13:27 |
| vi_ | ~tmo is trolls, morons and oligarchs. | 13:27 |
| infobot | cannot alter locked factoids, vi_ | 13:27 |
| Lava_Croft | tmo is like any open source-ish community | 13:27 |
| Lava_Croft | a lot of religious people with a lack of ability to see things from any other POV than their own | 13:27 |
| vi_ | Lava_Croft: But with more butt-hurt. | 13:27 |
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| zeq | new toolchains are up: http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.6-2012.06-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 | 13:31 |
| zeq | http://www.snewbury.org.uk/maemo/linaro-4.7-2012.06-fremantle-armv7a.tar.bz2 | 13:31 |
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| zeq | be warned, they're big | 13:32 |
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| zeq | not sure why they're as big as they are actually... ?? | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: please add a line what's the supposed new properties and purpose of those toolchains | 13:33 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: principally, they contain lots of bugfixes. also they have working LTO,graphite,vectorization,improved thumb support | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are like 270 users here wondering "should I download those instantly now?" | 13:34 |
| zeq | LOL | 13:34 |
| Lava_Croft | its newer so it must be better | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly | 13:34 |
| zeq | it is better ;) | 13:35 |
| vi_ | HIGHER NUMBERS MEAN MORE BETTERER. | 13:35 |
| zeq | exactly! | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but WHO will use them, for WHAT? | 13:35 |
| zeq | for CSSU-T | 13:35 |
| zeq | if nothing else | 13:35 |
| zeq | the current CSSU-T toolchain was rather hacked together, no offense freemangordon | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for *building* CSSU-T | 13:35 |
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| zeq | can be used for non-thumb too obviously | 13:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 hears 250 users switching chan | 13:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) | 13:37 |
| zeq | they can be dropped straight into /scratchbox/compilers | 13:37 |
| zeq | after unpacking | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ok, that's nice background info | 13:37 |
| zeq | create a fresh target and away you go | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: thanks | 13:38 |
| zeq | just looking into why they're soooo big | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually missing strip | 13:38 |
| zeq | okay 26M of docs, doesn't help | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LOL | 13:39 |
| Lava_Croft | haha | 13:39 |
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| petteri | so will cssu be faster with the new toolchain, or what? | 13:40 |
| zeq | anything you build with the new toolchain *might* be faster :) | 13:40 |
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| zeq | a lot of things *probably* will be | 13:40 |
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| petteri | in a way that me as user notices some improvments? | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that depends | 13:41 |
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| zeq | there's also the issue that some software just won't build with the old compiler anymore | 13:42 |
| zeq | 4.2 is getting pretty old | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | common sense in that discipline is "it needs a over-all speed improvement by factor 2 until user notices" | 13:42 |
| zeq | that's not impossible | 13:42 |
| zeq | I read that Android saw a I think it was a 40% improvement just switching to linaro | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless you're talking about hard realtime like video playback, where 2% speed increase make the difference between nice video and dropped frames | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a valid usecase for overclocking | 13:43 |
| zeq | actually mplayer would be a pretty nice test for it... vi_ ... | 13:44 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: better to have faster code than an overclock though, anyday :) | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyday | 13:44 |
| zeq | the only thing about mplayer is it tends to have the most critical parts in assembler anyway | 13:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm the most notorious OC-hater all around | 13:45 |
| vi_ | No shit, I hate orange county as well. | 13:45 |
| zeq | LOL | 13:45 |
| zeq | a lot of the size is just due to the static binaries, no choice there though | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | staically linked? | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I bet that explains a lot | 13:47 |
| zeq | it's necessated by scratchbox | 13:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe, dunno | 13:47 |
| zeq | I tried with a dyn-linked toolchain first, didn't work | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 13:48 |
| zeq | plus it'd only work with my system probably, anyway | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't care too much about size of SB tools | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | SB itself is like 5GB | 13:48 |
| zeq | yeah | 13:49 |
| zeq | I'll probably leave them as they are | 13:49 |
| zeq | let users delete the docs if they need the space | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 13:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sane idea | 13:49 |
| zeq | dear god, cc1plus is 72MB! | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :shrug: | 13:50 |
| zeq | cc1 68M, lto1 66M | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look at libboost ;-P | 13:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 49160113 Apr 5 2008 /home/jr/halley/jr/Desktop/twinkle-1.2/src/gui/twinkle 3497348 30. Okt 2011 /usr/bin/twinkle | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's not even been static linking | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually I forgot what caused this explosion | 13:57 |
| zeq | quite impressive | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | might just be debug symbols / stripping | 13:59 |
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| zeq | I'm writing a quick guide to setting it up on tmo | 14:09 |
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| zeq | What's going to happen about the EULA repos? Are we going to be able to make puplic mirrors, or what??? | 14:10 |
| zeq | "Post rejected. As a new member, you are only allowed to post a minimum number of links in your post. Hit the back button on your web browser and edit your post. Thanks." | 14:11 |
| zeq | LOL | 14:11 |
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| zeq | So, not having checked my webserver log, has anybody tried out the new toolchains? | 14:15 |
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| * zeq checks log | 14:17 | |
| zeq | Some of you have" :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask. | 14:18 |
| zeq | s/"/!/ | 14:18 |
| infobot | zeq meant: Some of you have! :D If anybody needs help setting it up just ask. | 14:18 |
| vi_ | zeq: I do not know, however I will be hosting the global 1.3 firmware on my webserver indefinatley. | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | not sure I'm comfortable with the new council | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | recent behaviour makes it seem childish | 14:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooh | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, read the quote, the reply is a given http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1226784&postcount=394 | 14:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 14:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the term "childish2 is actually a euphemism | 14:22 |
| MohammadAG | not sure the community's still the same | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | my thoughts | 14:22 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: estel is visible only as such, powerhungry and childish | 14:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MohammadAG: I already posted my only comment on very same thread | 14:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nothing more to add | 14:23 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer05, I'm not sure where the thread is going too | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | staight into doom | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | the winners won't be changed, the council can't be changed, it's just taking tmo downhill | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: could you find a reason to close it? | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | Not that I have a problem with SD69 | 14:24 |
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| vi_ | Closing the thread can only be seen as an agressive act of censorship by the 'powers that be'. | 14:25 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer05: as my popcorn is gone... I might should find one yes | 14:25 |
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| MohammadAG | vi_, mods aren't council, council can't control mods and vice versa | 14:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's the way it should be | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | for tmo, irc, whatnot | 14:26 |
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| FIQ|n900 | would anyone that flame the thread care? | 14:26 |
| FIQ|n900 | @ MohammadAG | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | esp since council isn't our emperor | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG | FIQ|n900, the thread raises valid points | 14:26 |
| vi_ | If you shut that thread, then you stoke the fire. | 14:27 |
| MohammadAG | there are no possible solutions | 14:27 |
| MohammadAG | don't close it abrubtly | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: I leave that to tmo mods' discretion | 14:27 |
| vi_ | Abill will get excited again then BAM the whole thing blows up again. | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | vi_: since I actually dunno | 14:27 |
| MohammadAG | abill_uk's just adding oil to the fire | 14:27 |
| freemangordon | zeq: no offence taken, I am the first to admit it was hackish :) | 14:28 |
| chem|st | uh quims post made a good point to close the thread at this point | 14:29 |
| vi_ | It is merely my opinon and I trust the mods will do the right thing. However if you shut it, it can be seen as suffocating legitimate protest. If you post in it, it only stirs things up again. | 14:29 |
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| vi_ | As far as I can tell you must simply let it burn out. | 14:30 |
| MohammadAG | vi_, already shut | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all legitimate protest seems to have been mentioned over and over again | 14:30 |
| freemangordon | I agree with vi_, leave it die alone | 14:30 |
| MohammadAG | chem|st, I hope closing it that way won't backfire | 14:31 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, it won't die alone | 14:31 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: what has happened with fixed CSSU-t? | 14:31 |
| MohammadAG | not until council is replaced or awwards are reconsidered | 14:31 |
| freemangordon | leave that fcking thread | 14:31 |
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| freemangordon | MohammadAG: What I care of, is that right now we have a bunch of devices with oss-gnome-vfs thumb2-compiled, without kernel support for it, and you are discussing some bullshit thread. WTF? | 14:32 |
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| freemangordon | It's been some 2 weeks and nothing is happening. At least I am not aware of | 14:33 |
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| freemangordon | I don't give a shit about how much arie, itsnotabigcar etc are frustrated, when we have CSSU-t users with broken SW on their devices | 14:34 |
| freemangordon | Why should you? | 14:35 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: ^^^ | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chem|st: thanks a lot, pal! | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you saved my day (and maybe council) | 14:36 |
| Hurrian | freemangordon, nokia shipped thumb binaries on the N900? | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon: Ill push a recompiled gnome-osso-vfs now | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | Hurrian: No, latest cssu t did | 14:37 |
| chem|st | freemangordon: exactly! | 14:37 |
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| freemangordon | Hurrian: yes, Nokia pushed thumb2 binaries, so did MohammadAG | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, freemangordon ++ | 14:38 |
| freemangordon | facebook-upload-applet being one of them (pushed by Nokia) | 14:38 |
| zeq | I guess this is a good reason to get the fixes into the kernel | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which in turn exploded into our face a lot? | 14:39 |
| freemangordon | zeq: :nod: | 14:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | probably Nokia anticipated FMGs thumb-fix ;-P | 14:40 |
| freemangordon | you can bet on that :P | 14:40 |
| freemangordon | on fixed SR too, that is why the battery is only 1320 mAh | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: nope, that's a reason to get fixed libs, without thumb | 14:40 |
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| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I will be glad to hear about your plan to fix the libs that are in OVI store | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-S | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | touche | 14:41 |
| freemangordon | have in mind thumb2 compiled one is not some 10k lib like the one I REd | 14:42 |
| freemangordon | it is much bigger IIRC | 14:43 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, git down | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | which would mean we are missing stuff in the REd one? | 14:43 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: gitorious is up here, could be your network | 14:44 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05:which means REd one is a piece of a puzzle, which consists of about 7-8 libs | 14:44 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, network's fine | 14:44 |
| MohammadAG | freemangordon, can you give me the ssh URL for osso-gnome-vfs2? | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aaah the RE is way bigger, sorry I got that wrong | 14:45 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG:just a second | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nobody going to need that lib in early boot | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: git@gitorious.org:community-ssu/osso-gnome-vfs2.git | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | MohammadAG: have in mind that you need to check EVERYTHING in the last update for being thumb-compiled | 14:46 |
| freemangordon | also libxml2 dependencies in mp- are incorrect | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | how come? | 14:47 |
| zeq | how did thumb binaries get through? | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | (libxm2?) | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: a *very* good question | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | zeq, apparently stock scratchbox builds thumb2 bins | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with no answer yet | 14:47 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: WTF early boot has to do with thumb2? | 14:47 |
| MohammadAG | which isn't causing any problems (yet) | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it has nothing to do with thumb, but with facebook-upload-lib | 14:48 |
| freemangordon | so? | 14:48 |
| zeq | yes, gcc-4.2 can do thumb | 14:48 |
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| zeq | it shouldn't be default though | 14:48 |
| MohammadAG | zeq, DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS has thumb | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | zeq: but SB installer turns it on by default | 14:49 |
| MohammadAG | or whatever the env variable is | 14:49 |
| freemangordon | by FREMANTLE_ARMEL.environment file | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | <freemangordon> it is much bigger IIRC <DocScrutinizer05> well, nevermind, will live in /opt happily forever nobody going to need that lib in early boot | 14:49 |
| zeq | so it odes | 14:50 |
| zeq | s/odes/does/ | 14:50 |
| infobot | zeq meant: so it does | 14:50 |
| zeq | wtf? | 14:50 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it lives in /opt even now, that does not change the fact it is loaded in memory when there is FB widget or photo uploader active | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 14:51 |
| freemangordon | thumb errata could hit in both arm/thumb code | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what's your point? | 14:51 |
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| freemangordon | what zeq said is the correct think to do | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just said "don't worry about size of your RE'd FB-upload-lib" | 14:51 |
| freemangordon | (i.e. fixed kernel) | 14:51 |
| zeq | even if it's very slightly slower | 14:52 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: sorry misunderstan what you were saying | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems you're in a mood to argue today | 14:52 |
| freemangordon | The problem is not the size but complexity | 14:52 |
| freemangordon | The one I REd is not thumb2 compiled one | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I got that much | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | So I don't get your question then, sorry. | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I thought the original lib was way larger than your RE | 14:53 |
| freemangordon | aaah, no :) | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then I learnt what you said, and said "don't worry" | 14:54 |
| freemangordon | they are about the same size, some 8-9k | 14:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind then my comments | 14:55 |
| freemangordon | yup :) | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I'm afk now | 14:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems I have to ignore the ibuprofen not kicking in, and go to daywork anyway | 14:57 |
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| * DocScrutinizer05 sighs "if only council had claimed 5 devices for council tasks right away, instead of putting themselves on benchmark of a contest/award" | 15:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer05 | silly | 15:04 |
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| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: ACK | 15:09 |
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| vi_ | But now we will never get nitroid for the n950 :( | 15:44 |
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| Lava_Croft | time to see how much nicer daily life is using a n900 instead of a n9 | 15:52 |
| Lava_Croft | (not that i ever forgot) | 15:52 |
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| mase76 | MohammadAG, there is a small problem with omp since the "resume on headphone connect" feature. | 16:19 |
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| mase76 | there is a problem with the gpodder interaction, which worked fine before. if i want to play an audio podcast, omp often opens in videomode. if i repeat this, omp opens correct in audiomode, but the podcast starts from beginning then. | 16:22 |
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| zeq | looks like qt is a pretty good test-case for g++ compilers! Both the 4.6 and 4.7 linaro compilers hit known (but different) ICEs, both targeted to be fixed for the next Linaro release (2012.07) | 17:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~ice | 17:28 |
| infobot | ice is probably Intrusion Countermeasures Electronics. In Circut Emulator. Internal Compiler Error | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mase76: you'll probably have to linger on here for a while, until MohammadAG will respond | 17:30 |
| mase76 | i will | 17:30 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: which qt are you trying to build? as the one in the thumb repo should have everything ready for gcc 4.4+ compiler | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | thesource I mean | 17:34 |
| freemangordon | mase76: I think OMP development/maintainership was transferred to gidzzz@TMO, you'd better throw a post in OMP thread on TMO | 17:37 |
| mase76 | MohammadAG no longer develops it? | 17:37 |
| freemangordon | AFAIK | 17:38 |
| freemangordon | its been like that for some time | 17:38 |
| zeq | freemangordon: qt4-x11-4.7.4~git20110505+cssu6 | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | duh | 17:40 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: where did you get that from? thumb-tesing branch in CSSU? | 17:40 |
| freemangordon | zeq: did you do git checkout thumb-testing? | 17:41 |
| zeq | freemangordon: I did add a patch for gcc-4.7 from debian, but the actual bugs I'm hitting are from fixes for other bugs upstream. The gcc-4.7 bug is actually a gcc mainline bug, while the 4.6 bug is Linaro specific. | 17:41 |
| zeq | Let me check apt-cache policy | 17:42 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: where did you get Qt sources? | 17:42 |
| zeq | http://maemo.merlin1991.at fremantle/free Packages | 17:42 |
| freemangordon | thumb repo? | 17:43 |
| zeq | yup | 17:43 |
| freemangordon | aah,ok. so, none of your toolchains builds Qt? damn | 17:43 |
| zeq | bummer | 17:43 |
| zeq | That's not entirely true, I could probably turn off neon | 17:44 |
| zeq | I was trying with neon enabled | 17:44 |
| zeq | qt does have explict neon support | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | makes sense | 17:44 |
| freemangordon | does it? | 17:44 |
| zeq | Just unlucky with the bugs | 17:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if he recalls something about "neon doesn't work on N900 maemo" | 17:44 | |
| zeq | yeah, it uses neon intrinsics | 17:44 |
| zeq | DocScrutinizer05: LOL | 17:45 |
| zeq | neon works fine | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | so next 4.7 should be OK with neon and Qt? | 17:45 |
| zeq | freemangordon: well, who knows. Fix one thing here, and it breaks another thing somewhere else... | 17:45 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: never ever trust anything on "not working on n900" if the source is not /me :P | 17:45 |
| zeq | It *should* | 17:45 |
| zeq | The OE folks are onto it | 17:46 |
| freemangordon | ok | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq: I'm absolutely unsure if I ever heard such rant, but maybe there's a reason they didn't use it? might be compiler based reason though | 17:46 |
| freemangordon | so, lets stick with my toolchain until the bug is fixed, ok? | 17:46 |
| zeq | gcc-4.2 based reason probably | 17:46 |
| freemangordon | even if it is hackish :) | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yup | 17:47 |
| zeq | I could knock together a new toolchain based on the same upstream source as you | 17:47 |
| zeq | shall I? | 17:47 |
| freemangordon | zeq: what is the rationale? | 17:47 |
| zeq | I've got the hang of it now :) | 17:47 |
| zeq | it installs more cleanly | 17:47 |
| freemangordon | :) | 17:47 |
| freemangordon | but if you are going to make a new build in a week or two, that will be a time that will be lost | 17:48 |
| zeq | I've built a toolchain base without gcc, which I compile gcc against, then use sb-toolchain-extras to sandboxize it. | 17:49 |
| freemangordon | I mean it does not make sense to use it for a week and to throw it in favor of gcc 4.7 | 17:49 |
| freemangordon | but it is up to you :) | 17:49 |
| zeq | what was it vanilla 4.6.2? | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | yep | 17:50 |
| freemangordon | from gcc mirror | 17:50 |
| * freemangordon is heading on his way home, bbl | 17:50 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 waves | 17:50 | |
| zeq | freemangordon: https://bugs.launchpad.net/gcc-linaro/+bug/1013209 | 17:51 |
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| zeq | I've lost the other one | 17:52 |
| zeq | found it: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=53135 | 17:56 |
| povbot_ | Bug 53135: was not found. | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | ~pet povbot_ | 18:03 |
| * infobot reaches over and pets povbot_ on the head, saying "There, there! It'll all be ok!" | 18:03 | |
| zeq | poor povbot :( | 18:06 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Woody14619: post is in apps.formeego.org thread on TMO | 18:17 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: I am on my way to register on github, will ping you whne ready | 18:35 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: freemangordon@github :) | 18:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | Estel_: since your PM promised you'll stop insulting me (and I gather, also stop insulting generally the chanops in here), I'll like to promise I'll also try to not use harsh words and I deleted you from my ignore list. Peace! :-) | 18:44 |
| zeq | freemangordon: you should now have commit access. | 18:45 |
| zeq | I've just committed my changes to master, if you want to create a branch, do so. | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | zeq: thanks. where the repo is? | 18:46 |
| zeq | https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5 | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | nah, I would prefer not to branch | 18:46 |
| freemangordon | I will commit only working code | 18:46 |
| zeq | ok | 18:46 |
| zeq | I've gotta go for a bit, I'll be back later if the gf doesn't ban me from my laptop ;) | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | :D | 18:47 |
| freemangordon | ok, bb | 18:47 |
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| RiD | keep the negative energy out of the channel. Let it flow to where it belongs | 18:49 |
| RiD | I didn't write that | 18:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's no such thing like negative energy ;-) | 18:50 |
| freemangordon | "dark" fits better | 18:51 |
| vi_ | DocScrutinizer05: Not even from a 7905??? | 18:52 |
| freemangordon | :D | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, that's negative voltage | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | energy is a scalar | 18:52 |
| freemangordon | yepm you beat me to it | 18:52 |
| freemangordon | P*t | 18:53 |
| vi_ | Damn, your good. | 18:53 |
| * GeneralAntilles hands DocScrutinizer05 and freemangordon some metaphysics. | 18:53 | |
| vi_ | ... How many volts are required to drive an LED? | 18:53 |
| freemangordon | depends on the technology | 18:53 |
| vi_ | HAH! Trollmode unlocked. It is a current device. | 18:54 |
| freemangordon | usually in the range 1.8-4 (iirc) | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | correct | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some might go up to 6 | 18:55 |
| freemangordon | vi_: bullshit, it is PN, don't tlee me diode is a current device | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you need a certain voltage to start current flowing thru it | 18:56 |
| freemangordon | the current (and luminocity) depends on the voltage, though not linearly | 18:56 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 18:56 |
| freemangordon | (it ws some quantum barrier, but for the gods sake i can't remember its name) | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually called Vfwd | 18:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | or U(fwd) | 18:57 |
| freemangordon | vi_: any other questions :P | 18:57 |
| vi_ | ...an LED is a current device. | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | WTF is a "current device"? | 19:00 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: Yes, 1. | 19:00 |
| freemangordon | yeah, define it | 19:00 |
| vi_ | freemangordon: Why does it hurt when I pee? | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'd like to quote good ole FZ | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got it from the toilet seat | 19:01 |
| freemangordon | vi_: you have stones in your (place the english word here, ass?) | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it jumped right up and grabbed your meat | 19:01 |
| vi_ | mmm. My balls do feel like a pair of maraccas. | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you got the gono kakakakus | 19:02 |
| freemangordon | you sure there is no some monster living in your toilet smashing your balls? | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you're sure that's still on topic in any way? | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P | 19:03 |
| * freemangordon is afk going to chase fennec's rotation | 19:04 | |
| * freemangordon turns trollmode off | 19:04 | |
| * DocScrutinizer05 is off taking a warm bath to stop that damn shaking | 19:04 | |
| qwazix | I just read the thread about fennec rotation, maybe it just needs to be blacklisted? | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess he rather wanna make it work, than block rotation | 19:05 |
| qwazix | Qml apps handle their own rotation (and AFAIK fennec does that too) and CSSU rotates it again thus the 90° problem | 19:05 |
| merlin1991 | qwazix: you should see it on harm | 19:06 |
| freemangordon | qwazix: it is a bit more complicated, Nokia (in their ethernal wisdom) made fennec listen to orientation sensor | 19:06 |
| merlin1991 | there it's also quite funky | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's the root cause then. Fennecd not supposed to do anything "on its own" | 19:06 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 19:06 |
| qwazix | but on harmattan it does rotate 4 ways | 19:06 |
| qwazix | so definitely does something by itself | 19:06 |
| freemangordon | and it uses pixmap rotation for that | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | GL pixmap rotation, which is sloooow | 19:07 |
| qwazix | I'm not sure what that is but if it's what I think (rotating pixel by pixel) no wonder it's slow | 19:07 |
| freemangordon | and NO software should decide on its own when to rotate. And no other software rotates 4 ways | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least it MUST NOT use accelerometer raw data to do whateveer it does | 19:08 |
| freemangordon | yep | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ~2119 | 19:08 |
| infobot | The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119. | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | qwazix: dunno the build I have on my n9 rotates 4 ways | 19:08 |
| merlin1991 | BUT jumps back a split second later | 19:08 |
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| qwazix | merlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i haven't noticed that earlier. | 19:09 |
| qwazix | s/haven't/hadn't/ | 19:10 |
| infobot | qwazix meant: merlin1991: indeed. Must be 13 because i hadn't noticed that earlier. | 19:10 |
| qwazix | Now i'm upside down for at least 20 seconds so it's not consistent | 19:11 |
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| merlin1991 | qwazix: for me it works approximately 1 time out of 10 | 19:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure who does rotation on N900(-CSSU), but I'm absolutely sure it needs to listen to display aspect ratio, and we want to control that in a central location, to have a hook where orientation lock (switch) could attach | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | apps listening to raw accelerometer data have no waay to learn about system global orientation lock, since there's no such thing defined in stock maemo | 19:18 |
| qwazix | Most probably that is what qt-components apps do, but I suppose we could change that in qt? | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | we should, if needed | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | btw apps constanly listening to accelerometer data as well introduce problems regarding CPU usage, power consumption and a couble of other domains. since that's not a recommended way to deal with accelerometer at all | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | lis302 got an IRQ line and internal thresholds for a reason | 19:24 |
| SpeedEvil | And of course they can't do stuff like setting thresholds. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | that's why they need to read data constantly, several times per second | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and do sw based thresholds | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a huuuge cpu and energy hog | 19:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and common practice in Qt afaik | 19:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, can't type anymore... afk | 19:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | right way: lis302 accelerometer chip senses rotation -> engages IRQ -> mce detects IRQ, reads current orientation -> signal to dbus about orientation chage -> 57 apps wake up, receive dbus signal, act accordingly, go to sleep again | 19:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | wrong way: 57 apps poll lis302 10 times a seond, compare (in CPU) to their local thresholds, act accordingly, go to sleep for 01s second | 19:34 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: is the IRQ way implemented? | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes, basically | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | ok | 19:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dunno about mce though | 19:35 |
| freemangordon | should be, otherwise we would've seen it in powertop | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in lis302.ko it's semi-implemented | 19:36 |
| freemangordon | ? | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | only detects upright and flat iirc | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | not using highpass filter as it should | 19:37 |
| freemangordon | and polls for the others? | 19:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nah, odds are some orientation chages pass unnoticed | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | ok | 19:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since lis302 won't trigger on them | 19:38 |
| freemangordon | yeah, got it | 19:39 |
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| freemangordon | shuldn't be a big problem though | 19:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | e.g flat->portait iirc won't trigger IRQ | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | it triggers | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | ok, at leas h-d rotates | 19:39 |
| freemangordon | *least | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look into lis302.ko src, you'll spot what I mean | 19:40 |
| freemangordon | ok, will do it some day | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | it *should* use highpass and set threshold rather low, and do this on 2 instead of just one axis | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this way *any* orientation chanke aka move would cause IRQ to fire | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | change* | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | you mean a filter per axis? | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | damn | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 19:42 |
| freemangordon | x(t)=x(t-1)+a*dx/dt+b? | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | would that do the job? | 19:43 |
| freemangordon | or we would need a higher order? | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc you got 2 comparators and 2 filters, and a summarizer. you set filters to 3 axis, add the results, and set one comparator so it fires when output is greater than x, which means any of the axis values changed more than y per timeframe | 19:44 |
| freemangordon | aah, the chip has those filters build in? coll, then i will deffinitely take a look at it some day. Though I am afraid mce is closed source and noone knows how will it act when thinks work in a way they have to | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 19:45 |
| freemangordon | *things | 19:46 |
| freemangordon | :) | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lis302.ko disables the filters, and no way to set them | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia thought it's not needed, so driver doesn't support it | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there's even a comment in it on words to the effect | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/hwmon/lis3lv02d.c?v=2.6.32#L45 outright "I didn't get it, so we don't use it" | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's *not* mameo implementation though | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's the BS meego etc are using | 19:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | aka "upstream" | 19:53 |
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| freemangordon | "we poll the sensor only at 20Hz..." | 19:54 |
| freemangordon | WTF? | 19:54 |
| * RST38h moos | 19:57 | |
| RST38h | Doc <-- segregates by OS version =) | 19:57 |
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| Guest63653 | libqtm provides an orientation API, that's what fennec is using to determine when to rotate. No reason it should be of course, I'm pretty sure the API was provided for apps with a specific need to know which way is up, for things other than UI rotation. | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | :nod: | 19:59 |
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| zeq | oops, that was me ;) | 19:59 |
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| freemangordon | you still have a GF? | 19:59 |
| freemangordon | :P | 19:59 |
| zeq | at the moment :) | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/i2c/chips/lis302dl.c#165 here you are | 20:00 |
| freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: will look at it some day, now i am clonning fennec and will play a little bit with it | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | WOW 730 MB | 20:01 |
| freemangordon | (fennec sources + git info) | 20:02 |
| zeq | mozilla has a long history | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 187 /* Enable interrupt wakeup on x and y axis */ | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Z axis not monitored (can't be done as we have only 2 comparators aiui) | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: for a proper accelerometer API we'd need to define a whole new concept. One based on app requesting for a certain "resolution" and a central entity unifying all the requests - much like in liblocation | 20:07 |
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| MrPingu | Hmm, is it normal that X consumes most of CPU time? | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | usually | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | unless screen locked, when it probably shouldn't consume all that much | 20:09 |
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| MrPingu | Then it's me | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 877 716 root S < 15540 6.3 2.5 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nolisten tcp -noreset -s 0 -core | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1578 1177 user S 8296 3.3 1.3 /usr/bin/hildon-status-menu | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 14328 14173 root R 732 0.3 0.7 top | 20:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2226 2224 root S 572 0.2 0.7 /bin/sh /root/bin/bq27200.sh 60 | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | top 4 top | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and no, this shell displayed on my laptop, not on device screen/X | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless screen not locked | 20:12 |
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| MrPingu | ah I see :) I checked conky and it showed xorg as most CPU time consuming process | 20:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | same top 4 with screen locked: | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 14415 14173 root R 736 0.3 0.5 top | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 10 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.5 [omap2_mcspi] | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 550 2 root SW 0 0.0 0.3 [wl12xx] | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 2248 1177 user S 5172 2.1 0.2 /usr/bin/image-viewer | 20:15 |
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| MrPingu | I couldn't remember I had seen xorg that high in that list before :P | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wtf image-viewer?? | 20:16 |
| MrPingu | 869 712 root S < 38736 16.4 14.6 /usr/bin/Xorg -logfile /tmp/Xorg.0.log -logverbose 1 -nol | 20:17 |
| MrPingu | ystem --nofork | 20:17 |
| zeq1 | conky isn't exactly a low overhead monitor | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | conky does a friggin lot of gfx iirc, ... on and via X | 20:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | actually X is working harder for the gfx than the monitor | 20:19 |
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| zeq1 | jus accounting doc | 20:20 |
| zeq1 | s/jus/just/ | 20:20 |
| infobot | zeq1 meant: just accounting doc | 20:20 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: no debian/ and no mozconfig? | 20:20 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: it's a fork of mozilla-central. It's the recommended tree for working against. We need to decide whether to include debian/ in the repo or .gitignore it. | 20:22 |
| zeq1 | I thought we could decide that once you got your account. | 20:23 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: if it is called maemo5... then we either do maemo5 branch and put those there or put them in master | 20:23 |
| freemangordon | hmm, branch maemo5 should be ok | 20:24 |
| zeq1 | I don't have a problem having it in the repo, it just makes it slightly more work if we push it upstream. | 20:24 |
| freemangordon | we don;t need it upstream | 20:24 |
| zeq1 | true enough | 20:24 |
| zeq1 | I just wanted to keep our options open :) | 20:24 |
| MrPingu | Yeah, it seems conky pushes X to about 15 percent | 20:25 |
| zeq1 | at least it's easy to keep it up to date | 20:25 |
| zeq1 | since it's tracking upstream | 20:25 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: ok, I will branch and put maemo5 stuff there, pull it afterwards and compare it with yours (debian and mozconfig) | 20:25 |
| zeq1 | okay | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: (options) +1 | 20:26 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: but other changes will go to master | 20:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if only nokia had upstreamed lis302.ko | 20:27 |
| zeq1 | so anything packaging specific in a branch, fixes in master | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | yep | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | you already put some in master | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | i will do the same | 20:27 |
| zeq1 | just build fixes | 20:27 |
| freemangordon | I know, but still | 20:28 |
| zeq1 | I'm happy with the plan :) | 20:28 |
| zeq1 | should HARM be using the same rotation framework? | 20:29 |
| zeq1 | does it have qtmaemo? | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | it is some meegotouch stuff ther AFAIK. But I am not much into harm | 20:30 |
| zeq1 | so the manual rotate stuff is some weird fallback? | 20:30 |
| freemangordon | or ugly hack/workaround, yes | 20:31 |
| zeq1 | are both the ugly hack and meegotouch getting enabled on harm, hence the weird behavour mentioned | 20:31 |
| zeq1 | ? | 20:31 |
| freemangordon | NFC | 20:32 |
| freemangordon | could be | 20:32 |
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| zeq1 | can't easily look at the code atm, making dinner | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: (re orientation) yes, and qt in turn is using this polling joystickj upstream driver, last I asked | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since that's the "generic2 one they found upstream | 20:35 |
| zeq1 | weird | 20:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | lis3lv02d.ko is polling the chip, sensorfw is polling /dev/accel, and qt is polling sensorfw | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's raouhgly their system architecture | 20:37 |
| zeq1 | probably because apps are registered with libqtm orientaion api | 20:37 |
| zeq1 | it's the wrong layer though | 20:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's the wrong concept | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: the first i did is to remove qtorientationsensor :) | 20:38 |
| zeq1 | haven't they heard of layering violation? | 20:38 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: will see in the commits in a couple of minutes | 20:38 |
| zeq1 | ok | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc qtorientationsensor has a pollingrate parameter | 20:40 |
| zeq1 | I'm sure there are valid use-cases for the API, can't think of one though | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | spirit level | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | is a valiud usecase for polling | 20:40 |
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| zeq1 | nope, the api reports top-up, top-down,... etc | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | pissibly at VSYNC framerate | 20:40 |
| zeq1 | not raw readings | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the typos become hillarious | 20:41 |
| zeq1 | LOL | 20:41 |
| zeq1 | my N900 is so nice with this hildon-desktop build :D | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: (API) right, there are two | 20:42 |
| zeq1 | smooth | 20:42 |
| zeq1 | yup | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | orientation and real degrees or g | 20:42 |
| zeq1 | totally separate APIs | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | both working rather same way though | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: do wer really need +ac_add_options --enable-tests | 20:43 |
| zeq1 | neither should be used for rotation | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:43 |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: no not really | 20:43 |
| freemangordon | ok | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since rotation is a virtual thing loosely related to orientation only | 20:44 |
| zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: at least not by apps | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 20:44 |
| zeq1 | WM could reasonably use it | 20:44 |
| zeq1 | I guess | 20:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | zeq1: I always come with my usecase "orientation by detection of user eye horiuzon, via front cam" | 20:45 |
| zeq1 | nice, not low power though | 20:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, but a killer for orientation based rotation, and too tight coupling to accel | 20:46 |
| zeq1 | it's always bugged me, rotation when lying on my side :) | 20:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | clearly shows the concept is flawed | 20:46 |
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| zeq1 | yup | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | and polling parameter in Qt* widgets shows their sensor concept is flawed, usually | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | since sensors need to _create_ events, not react on them | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's IRQ driven hw/sw design. Only valid approach for embedded | 20:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a device that doesn't do anything, has to do exactly that: NOTHING | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NOT poll sensors | 20:51 |
| zeq1 | agreed | 20:51 |
| zeq1 | you should have to register a notifier | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | meego folks always uttered "we'll deal with those minor details later - first we need to make it work at all" | 20:52 |
| zeq1 | to be fair, they wanted to get a device out for a deadline | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then they were shocked by their idle power consumption and abyssmal standby time | 20:53 |
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| zeq1 | only to be expected | 20:53 |
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| zeq1 | libqtm is still in development at least | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | once you implemented qt and sensorfw on a fundamentally wrong architecture, you never will "fix it later" | 20:54 |
| zeq1 | there is a chance it will be fixed | 20:54 |
| zeq1 | I don't know, as long as you depreciate the broken way with nice noisy warnings | 20:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | until I start to see that chance, I stick to my staement that meego never will get decent standby time | 20:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | well, meego is dead, so who cares | 20:55 |
| zeq1 | mer is going pretty strong though | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I just don't like to see qt spoiling maemo standby time | 20:56 |
| zeq1 | I don't now how much they've stuck to the broken bits | 20:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if stskeeps is no squarehead, he had a close look into at least this very topic, as I explained to him several times | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | in epic length | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so if they kept this arch for mer, I dunno | 20:57 |
| zeq1 | I'm going to ask, Imm on #mer anyway... | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | maybe better not to mention my name ;-D | 20:59 |
| zeq1 | LOL | 20:59 |
| zeq1 | Hopefully I didn't come across too offensive | 20:59 |
| zeq1 | maybe they're all at the pub? :P | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | they don't respond well on too unspecific rant like yours, I guess | 21:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to answer your question if they are still using the broken poll-based approach, they first had to be aware what that actually means | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | while the problem is they aren't even aware of the concept of IRQ/event-driven architecture - at least that's what it seems to me sometimes | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and hell, on several desktop platforms, you don't have any IRQ for that, so you _need_ to use polling, and usually on those platforms you just don't care | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that's probably also why Qt is using this approach - it works on most platforms, while IRQ driven is rather hw specific | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | (you could argue that, if your hardware doesn't provide proper IRQ triggered on events, then at least you implement the polling timers directly into the kernel device driver, so the kernel device API and concept could stay unchanged) | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but when you completely neglect thinking about hw IRQ driven architecture, then of course you implement the timers as close to app as possible, as the app (seems) knows best how often it needs to poll that sensor | 21:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a proper arch would define a way for apps to register to events, and define the "timer" aka resolution/frequency/sensitivity/accuracy in that registering | 21:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | all layers beneath would hand thru the details to lower layers, or handle parts of htese parameters themselves to consolidate multiple requests, in a way when one app requests on datapoint per second, and the other requests 20, the layer below will get asked to provide 20 | 21:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | look liblocation, where this got implemented in a decent way | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | one app wants accuracy based on GSM cells, other wants accuracy based on gps, third wants a-gps. The middleware (here lib) aggregates and consolidates that to meet all requirements | 21:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | exactly what we'd need for accel/orientation/rotation too | 21:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a nd the nice thing: this arch should work on any platform, just the return codes and resulting resource allocations are different for platforms with different capabilities | 21:23 |
| zeq1 | sorry about disappearing gf needing attention ;) | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | np, now I'm disappearing | 21:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | myself needs attention ;-) | 21:24 |
| merlin1991 | an engineers monologue ;) | 21:24 |
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| freemangordon | zeq1: any idea how to test all that gcc thumb/neon efficiency? | 21:30 |
| freemangordon | esp. neon, for thumb the benefit is clear | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Povray? | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | ? | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | whatever it is :) | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | It's the stereotypical heavy FP app | 21:31 |
| SpeedEvil | raytracer | 21:31 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: My idea was how to compare Qt with/out neon | 21:32 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 21:32 |
| M4rtinK | maybe scrolling speed in a long list ? | 21:33 |
| M4rtinK | or some insane qt graphics view demo ? | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | No clue as to what 'normal' stuff uses FP | 21:33 |
| freemangordon | and taking a video with a camera? :) | 21:33 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be interesting to have a 'fpumeter' | 21:34 |
| freemangordon | SpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see when those optimizations kick in | 21:34 |
| SpeedEvil | like the cpu applet | 21:34 |
| freemangordon | s/when/where/ | 21:34 |
| infobot | freemangordon meant: SpeedEvil: yeah, first is to see where those optimizations kick in | 21:34 |
| SpeedEvil | but to break out the opcodes | 21:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: puzzlemaster! | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc it became slow beyond any usability when it used qt for the tile moving | 21:39 |
| freemangordon | but does it use FP? | 21:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, iirc we comcluded that FP in Qt was the culprit | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | ok | 21:40 |
| zeq1 | don't forget it's not just about FP | 21:40 |
| zeq1 | it's also about SIMD | 21:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the nice part: you can scale it easily, simply by number of tiles moving around | 21:40 |
| freemangordon | where the optimisations are? | 21:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | you have to ask original author about details | 21:41 |
| zeq1 | could have a look in the qt code, grep for neon to see what get accelerated | 21:42 |
| freemangordon | ok | 21:42 |
| zeq1 | at least that way we'd know what to test | 21:43 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: btw did Qt compile with neon and "my" toolchain? | 21:43 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 curses his memory, as can't recall irc nick of puzzlemaster author | 21:43 | |
| zeq1 | freemangordon: haven't tried it | 21:43 |
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| freemangordon | ok, i will do that, once STUPID FENNEC ROTATES AS IT SHOULD | 21:44 |
| zeq1 | DocScrutinizer: Stskeeps has replied :) | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's an answer as well | 21:45 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: on #mer? | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: | 21:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the usual answer, "send a patch!" | 21:48 |
| freemangordon | yeah, :( | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ignoring that architecture can't get patched that easily | 21:49 |
| zeq1 | yeah | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | see what I meant? | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | all the same I already seen in #meego | 21:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | "send a patch", "we'll deal with that later, for now it just needs to work" | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and finally "that's the only lis302 driver upstreaqm, if you got a better one, send it upstream and we'll happily use it" | 21:52 |
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| Sicelo | i got a random reboot, and here's my syslog around the time. http://paste.debian.net/176291/ | 22:03 |
| Sicelo | it's not too much of a problem, but maybe someone can shed some light | 22:04 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: /dev/mtd2? | 22:04 |
| Sicelo | hmm, what about it? | 22:04 |
| freemangordon | :) there are the oopses | 22:05 |
| freemangordon | i.e. kernel backtrace | 22:05 |
| Sicelo | in short, HW fail? | 22:05 |
| freemangordon | in short, there is a kernel crash log in /dev/mtd2, pastebinit | 22:06 |
| Sicelo | ah.. let me see | 22:06 |
| Sicelo | hmm, i wonder if this will help :\ | 22:10 |
| Sicelo | that happened about 10 hours ago (i was at work, so didn't have the time to look into it) | 22:10 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: kernel crash backtrace is the only think that can help in case of a kernel oops | 22:10 |
| Sicelo | i'll paste | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | that does not matter, it is a dedicated part of NAND | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | so it persists through rebbots and time | 22:11 |
| freemangordon | *reboots | 22:11 |
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| Sicelo | meh, pastebinit fails on my pc, wtf. did paste.debian.net also change api | 22:19 |
| Sicelo | freemangordon: http://members.bombshellz.net/~sicelo/mtd2 | 22:20 |
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| vi__ | Sicelo: pastebinit on n900 is depreciated. | 22:24 |
| vi__ | N900 version is 1.1 | 22:24 |
| vi__ | current is 1.3 | 22:24 |
| vi__ | fortunatley is is just a glorified script. | 22:25 |
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| Sicelo | actually it's my debian pc that didn't work | 22:25 |
| vi__ | you can wget debian testing version | 22:25 |
| vi__ | deb file and dpkg -i it strait up. | 22:26 |
| Sicelo | kewl. thanks | 22:26 |
| vi__ | Also pastebin.com has changed their API. They are made of fail and should now be avoided. | 22:26 |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:26 |
| Sicelo | that's why i was surprised paste.debian.net didn't seem to work too | 22:26 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: no kernel oops, check if your battery is not loose | 22:27 |
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| Sicelo | eew. i know this battery has been loose for a while | 22:27 |
| Sicelo | :/ | 22:27 |
| vi__ | you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.<YOURPASTEBINHERE>.<WHATEVER> | 22:27 |
| vi__ | you can specify alternative pastebin with pastebin -b "http://www.<YOURPASTEBINHERE>.<WHATEVER>" | 22:28 |
| vi__ | You can list available pastbins with -h | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: that is not a major issue, just poll the contacts (on n900) a bit | 22:28 |
| Sicelo | ah, vi__ my mistake was forgetting the quotes then :/ | 22:28 |
| vi__ | you can set the default in .pastebinit. | 22:28 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: yes, it took me while too! | 22:28 |
| freemangordon | vi__: my English is not good enough, please explain to Sicelo what to do in case of a loose battery | 22:29 |
| Sicelo | i've done it successfully before. slipped my mind | 22:29 |
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| * vi__ reads scrollback | 22:29 | |
| Sicelo | :P | 22:29 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: depending on how your battery is loose. | 22:29 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: n900 right? | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | well, if it's battery, i'm kinda relieved. i know it is loose :\ | 22:30 |
| Sicelo | yes, N900 | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | he has restarts out of the blue, and ther is no kernel oops | 22:30 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: I don't know, that would be getting dangerously close to 'contributing to community' and we know I am nothing but troll. | 22:30 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: actually your n900 is damn stable, the last kernel crash is with KP47 | 22:30 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: put battery in ur ass. | 22:31 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: or not. | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | hmm, yes, you are right. | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | you're a troll | 22:31 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: if it is a loose battery it is generally the connections. | 22:31 |
| freemangordon | :( | 22:31 |
| Sicelo | i've taken rather good care of this piece of electronics, lol. | 22:31 |
| vi__ | The connections on the bl-5j battery. | 22:31 |
| * Sicelo loves this N900. if only.. | 22:31 | |
| vi__ | If you look at the terminals on the bl-5j you will see that they are made of 2 small spring clips. | 22:32 |
| Sicelo | yeah vi__ .. i've tried to bend/unbend the springs .. still seems like i'm not successful | 22:32 |
| vi__ | You see the springs have like a small half sphere on them. | 22:32 |
| freemangordon | I think there is a spring on the opposite side, butting the battery against the contacts, not sure though, lemme check | 22:33 |
| vi__ | The small half speres should be more or less touching. | 22:33 |
| vi__ | ^spheres. | 22:33 |
| Sicelo | i was saying here on friday (iinm) that this battery+contacts design sucks. what was wrong with BL-5C type of contacts.. | 22:33 |
| Sicelo | thanks vi__ & freemangordon | 22:33 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: I do not recall the bl-5c. | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: on the opposite to the contacts side there are two springs, you should extend them VERY CAREFULLY | 22:33 |
| freemangordon | so your battery will be held tighter | 22:34 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: Sicelo what country are you in? | 22:34 |
| Sicelo | lulz vi__ :P | 22:34 |
| Sicelo | swaziland | 22:35 |
| vi__ | mmm, to expensive to mail my spare., | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | atmospheric pressure? ;) | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | oh | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | :D | 22:35 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: is english your first language? | 22:35 |
| Sicelo | i can buy one from Expansys in South Africa. no, english is my 3rd | 22:36 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: holy shit. | 22:36 |
| Sicelo | what? :P | 22:36 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: I feel like the dumbest white guy in the room. | 22:36 |
| Sicelo | reason? | 22:36 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: so you are understanding EXACTLY what we mean by bending the battery terminals so they make better contact? | 22:36 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: Because I only speak 1 language :( | 22:37 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: I studied polish for a while but it is hard as hell. | 22:37 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: ...and the chick I was trying to impress went away. | 22:37 |
| Sicelo | yes vi__ . i've actually done this battery thing a couple of times before.. in fact, DocScrutinizer05 was helping me on friday iirc | 22:37 |
| vi__ | well it sounds to me either: | 22:38 |
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| freemangordon | vi__: I think is is better to first bend the sprongs that hold the battery against contacts. Only if that don;t help, then it is contacts turn | 22:38 |
| vi__ | 1. The battery is totally fecked. | 22:38 |
| vi__ | 2. It is a different problem. | 22:38 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: aaah, I understand. | 22:38 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: is the battery loose in the battery bay? | 22:39 |
| freemangordon | i had the same problem, didn't touch the contacts, only the springs on the opposite side | 22:39 |
| vi__ | freemangordon: That would make sense. | 22:39 |
| Sicelo | it is battery.. i knew it was .. because sometimes when i turn the N900 on, i have to enter the time (which i doubt s/w can require) | 22:39 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: That means the power has been removed. | 22:39 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: which could be the result of several things. | 22:40 |
| Sicelo | poor battery.. still has a lot of life in it :( | 22:40 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: is this an official nokia battery? | 22:40 |
| merlin1991 | Sicelo: what are the other 2 languages you speak? | 22:40 |
| vi__ | not a cheap knockoff? | 22:40 |
| Sicelo | 1240mAh, the last time i checked | 22:40 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: Ok. | 22:40 |
| freemangordon | Sicelo: most probably there's nothing wrong with your battery, it is just loose | 22:41 |
| Sicelo | vi__: yeah, original, came with the N900. the 1240mAh is i'ts current capacity | 22:41 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: I assume you understood what freemangordon said about the springs in the battery bay? | 22:41 |
| vi__ | Sicelo: yes/no? | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | zeq1: wtf? /opt/fennec-16.0a1/ | 22:41 |
| freemangordon | :D:D:D | 22:41 |
| Sicelo | merlin1991: siswati & zulu (well, i cheated, because these two are so close to one another :P) | 22:42 |
| Sicelo | yeah, i understood. thanks | 22:42 |
| vi__ | brb, making dinner. | 22:43 |
| vi__ | also, biltong. | 22:43 |
| zeq | freemangordon: yeah, as I mentioned, it's forked off mozilla-central. | 22:43 |
| zeq | I don't think it'll matter that much | 22:45 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: sure, it is just that I was surprised :) | 22:46 |
| zeq | I could have made a branch of a release tag, but I didn't think it would matter. | 22:47 |
| freemangordon | hmm, now the progress is, that we have reverse-landscape when device is in portrait :D:D:D. cool. anyway, getting closer | 22:47 |
| zeq | probably should have done really. | 22:47 |
| zeq | LOL | 22:47 |
| zeq | how'd that happen??? | 22:48 |
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| freemangordon | I set the rotationangle in MozQOrientationSensorFilter to 270 deg, now will try with 180, that should do the job | 22:48 |
| zeq | Ummm.... why are you using that? I thought we we're not using that code? | 22:51 |
| zeq | s/we're/were/ | 22:51 |
| infobot | zeq meant: Ummm.... why are you using that? I thought we were not using that code? | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | zeq: let me have something working to commit on github, will optimize it afterwards | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | agree? | 22:51 |
| freemangordon | whe you see my commits you will understand why ;) | 22:52 |
| zeq | I don't see the point of fixing the wrong code??? I'll take a look... | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | what we will not use is qtm orientation | 22:52 |
| freemangordon | but fennec needs the angle as it does some matrix/transformation magic. that will be the next think to get rid off | 22:53 |
| zeq | but we just want to respond to resize events through the qtmaemo(?) API, right? | 22:53 |
| freemangordon | zeq, for some reasin it don;t work, that is what I have been trying since a few hours. it is not QWidget, but QGraphicsWidget | 22:54 |
| freemangordon | *reason | 22:54 |
| zeq | it doesn't get rotated with hildon-desktop? | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | zeq: gimme some 20 minutes, trust me , you will see why I do it that way. Getting rid of the rotation will be the next thing to do | 22:55 |
| zeq | ok | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | (GLES rotation that is) | 22:55 |
| freemangordon | plus we can always revert the commits :) | 22:56 |
| zeq | true | 22:57 |
| zeq | btw I'm building gcc-4.6.3, see if that works. | 22:57 |
| freemangordon | :) ok | 22:58 |
| zeq | I'll keep an eye on linaro, when it builds qt again we can switch then. | 22:58 |
| freemangordon | ok | 22:59 |
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| freemangordon | zeq: https://github.com/sjnewbury/fennec-qt-maemo5/commit/1539cc31529613818a4398e2221fbfe7d698a39d | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | this is the commit we should revert for maemo5 | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | AIUI | 23:12 |
| freemangordon | not sure it will be enough though | 23:13 |
| zeq | looking | 23:13 |
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| zeq | revert or #ifdef it's where all the crazy code originates | 23:17 |
| freemangordon | I am adding #if !(MAEMO_PLATFORM == 5) | 23:18 |
| freemangordon | otherwise I don;t think it will be upstreamed :D | 23:18 |
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| zeq | Yeah. By the comments though, it sounds like it was just for MeeGo, should have been #if defined WHAT_EVER_MEEGO_DEFINE_IS | 23:19 |
| freemangordon | yeah :( | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | (MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6) | 23:20 |
| zeq | is it though? | 23:20 |
| freemangordon | nope | 23:20 |
| zeq | didn't think so | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | #ifdef MOZ_ENABLE_QTMOBILITY | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | maybe I misunderstood your question | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | qould you rephrase | 23:21 |
| freemangordon | *would | 23:21 |
| zeq | MeeGo != Harmattan | 23:22 |
| zeq | It doesn't seem qtm gets used anywhere else | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | maemo5 :) | 23:22 |
| freemangordon | but yeah | 23:22 |
| zeq | I mean in the mozilla code | 23:23 |
| freemangordon | which one, MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 6 ? | 23:23 |
| zeq | such as exposed for html5 apps | 23:23 |
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| freemangordon | ok, lets see the new build ;) | 23:23 |
| zeq | isn't MeeGo different UI to Harm? | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | the share meegotouch library | 23:24 |
| freemangordon | *they | 23:24 |
| zeq | but I imagine from the earlier report Harm doesn't need that MeeGo rotation code | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | initially it was open, but nokia closed it IIRC | 23:25 |
| freemangordon | zeq: NFC | 23:25 |
| zeq | I guess we're not trying to fix the harm port ;) | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | no, what makes you think that | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | HARM == MAEMO6 | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | and I am removeing MAEMO6 code | 23:26 |
| freemangordon | *removing | 23:27 |
| zeq | I know. I was just thinking about the report of the strange rotation behaviour ^^ | 23:27 |
| zeq | (with Harm) | 23:27 |
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| freemangordon | aah, I see | 23:29 |
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| zeq | gcc-4.6.3 toolchain will be ready shortly | 23:56 |
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