IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2012-06-26

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merlin1991no more 4.7?00:04
zeqmerlin1991: there's a bug in 4.7 currently (both mainline branch and Linaro) which prevents qt from building with neon intrinsics00:05
freemangordonmerlin1991: currently there is a neon intrinstics  bug in 4.700:05
merlin1991btw zeq are you building proper scratchbox-gccsomething debs?00:06
merlin1991would be great if we could install the toolchain like the regular maemo sdk target00:06
zeqnot built the deb, but otherwise yes proper sb alien toolchain00:06
merlin1991sb-core sb-devtools sb-gcc rootstrap and ehre we go00:06
merlin1991not untar somewhere, create config :D00:07
freemangordonzeq: give me some idea how to speedup fennec compilation, avery typo takes me 10 minutes :(00:07
zeqnative sb toolchain requires building glibc too00:07
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zeqmerlin1991: I did look into it00:09
merlin1991would have been great to the the full thing00:10
zeqbut decided to use the same glibc binaries as the other toolchains00:10
zeqthe sb toolchain builder also doesn't take into account other dependencies00:11
zeqlike ppl cloog etc00:11
zeqthe ones I've been building do integrate properly though00:12
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zeqfreemangordon: I don't know.  I didn't have that problem... or didn't notice, I'm using a SSD if it makes a difference.00:13
zeqYour full build-time is certainly less than mine!00:14
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DocScrutinizer05if the typos are in same file, then compiling just that file until it's syntactically correct might speed up turnaround time00:17
DocScrutinizer05then step up one step in tree00:17
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DocScrutinizer05run make there00:18
DocScrutinizer05to build one .o00:18
DocScrutinizer05does this make any sense to you?00:18
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zeqtesting qt4 build00:22
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I need the whole think linked00:26
freemangordonand .deb build00:26
DocScrutinizer05linking can't get speeded up afaik. but at link time you shouldn't run into any more typos00:26
freemangordonit is just that fennec is HUGE00:27
DocScrutinizer05I heard current firefox is faster than the old(?) fenec we got for maemo500:28
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zeqlost my net connection, but didn't notice00:40
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zeqfreemangordon: I've encountered any problems with this hildon-desktop. I compiled it with 4.7 + LTO too.00:48
freemangordonzeq: there are problems?00:48
zeqI meant *not* :)00:49
freemangordonis it thumb-compiled?00:49
zeqI merged the double->float conversation, thumb+neon+lto00:50
zeqit is *very* fast00:50
zeqmakes the whole thing feel much more responsive00:51
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zeqbuilt with the linaro-4.700:51
DocScrutinizer05indeed sounds awesome00:53
DocScrutinizer05how's binary size? compared to 'original'00:53
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: 'original' is thumb-compiled too :)00:54
DocScrutinizer05lol, I meant original original00:54
freemangordonthough neon could reduce binary size further00:54
zeqso could lto00:56
DocScrutinizer05wtf lto?00:56
freemangordonlinaro something I guess00:56
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zeq-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root        388012 Jun 24 22:45 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch00:58
zeqlink time optimization00:58
freemangordonaah, yeah :)00:58
freemangordon-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       391152 May 27 14:40 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch00:58
freemangordonor even less. But it is Qt that matters, not h-d00:59
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zeqqt's still building01:02
DocScrutinizer05hmm, not exactly01:02
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DocScrutinizer05-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 482600 2012-04-07 16:16 /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch01:02
freemangordonsome 20%01:03
DocScrutinizer05more like it01:03
freemangordon10% according to that #beagle guru, meh01:04
* zeq is off to bed01:04
zeqnight guys01:05
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you missed our last "discussion" with mra on #linaro01:05
freemangordonit ended up with a statement like:"whatever you say or do, I am right"01:06
freemangordonbut at least this time I was not adviced to change the SoC01:07
DocScrutinizer05well, diplomacy isn't exactly your foremost competence ;-)01:07
freemangordonthat was not my statement ;)01:07
DocScrutinizer05(mine neither, btw)01:07
freemangordonotherwise I agree01:07
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DocScrutinizer05those hardcore kernel gurus are sometimes hard to cope with01:09
DocScrutinizer05ypu've read that link I posted?01:09
DocScrutinizer05it sheds some light on why they are like that, at very least01:10
freemangordonIf most of them are like that guy, it is not a surprise linux is in its current state01:10
freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I opened it, but didn't have time to read it and watch the video. Though I am keeping the link01:10
freemangordonwill read it when have some spare time01:11
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* merlin1991 doesn't see link01:11
DocScrutinizer05I didn't watch the video01:11
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freemangordonmerlin1991: look ^^^01:11
DocScrutinizer05to them we are the tmo trolls01:12
DocScrutinizer05it takes some effort not to sound like a troll to them01:12
DocScrutinizer05in this very case, I'd actually recommend to (re-)read:01:13
infobotsomebody said question was If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, nice to hear that :)01:48
Estel_peace, peace. We should mark this day in the calendars.01:48
Estel_Seriously though01:48
Estel_now I got 1600 lines to read since yesterday, lol01:49
Estel_I just hope that it's not like 50 % of them are about CA AGAIN01:49
Estel_BTW, DocScrutinizer, just small clarification, if You don't mind. You've written that Council failed to ask for guidance. I would like to say that it'01:49
Estel_it's falce, because:01:49
Estel_on april, this issue was rised first time by me, using mailing list. I proposed to make councilors ineglible to get device, by default.01:50
Estel_Communtiy response was 100% in line that Councilors should be eglible, as they're volunteers (unpadi) + we got about 20% of voices like "councilors should *have* devices by default"01:50
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Estel_2. It was rised again, on TMO, during final creation of IRC rules01:50
DocScrutinizer05ok, I might be wrong regarding that01:51
Estel_only one person expressed negative opinion about it, in one liner. Rest of interested Communtiy was, again, positive to idea of councilorsd applying for device. Consensus was that councilor applying can't vote for himself, but wil lwork on reviewing other's people submissions01:51
Estel_it was again announced via mailing lsit, and in TMO. Nobody protested01:51
DocScrutinizer05yep, I know these deteils01:52
Estel_then CA was in run for 3 weeks, with all submissions public, Councilor's ones too. Nobody protested, except for spamming list :P01:52
Estel_then, after results... ah, I see You know the rest :)01:52
Estel_no problem, I just wanted to clarify it, as I haven't had idea how much You were involved in it, beside IRC01:52
DocScrutinizer05I just thought Jaffa or GeneralAntilles would have given advice to not do this CA in exactly this way, if you'd have asked them directly. That's just speculation of me though01:53
Estel_I may be wrong here, because, as said, shaping CA started in April, But I remember, at least Jaffa input on mailing list01:53
Estel_if I'm not wrong01:53
DocScrutinizer05ok, then maybe their answers were different that what I expected they were01:54
Estel_again, don't quote me on that, but I think he was amongst people suggesting, that Council.ors should be eglible to participate. BTW, I really like this Community for acting like that, I.E deciding to review submissions by merit, not by who is which role01:54
Estel_...and I understand better why You've once set (or kept, no idea) TMO as troll,s morons, and oxies :P01:54
Estel_actually, only 4 trolls making noise there,  but enough for 30 pages in 3 days01:54
Estel_BTw, I agree that Your idea of applying devices to Councilor before CA is interesting. Hoever, I'm afraid it would create even more oucry01:55
DocScrutinizer05though only abill_uk qualifies for a real troll in my book01:55
DocScrutinizer05no, probably not01:55
Estel_well, AFAIK Aries is abil equvalent in Harmattan Community...01:55
Estel_and that's real issue why he elft few months ago...01:56
Estel_then returned here as self-proclaimed voice of Harmattan ;)01:56
DocScrutinizer05aries contributed quite a bit to CSSU last time I checked01:56
Macerthe swiss pass out free heroin to addicts01:56
Estel_? Where? isn't it name coincidence?01:56
Macerhow awesome of a society is that?01:56
Estel_Macer, :P01:56
Estel_vi_ ping01:56
Macerseems like a lot of community drama01:57
DocScrutinizer05well, I also wondered about name coincidence first, iirc01:57
Estel_it seems that it ended, anyway01:57
Macerobviously if all these things are issues then there needs to be a solid way to quantify contributions to the community ;)01:57
Estel_for 2 days i don't see this shit in active topics anymore01:57
Macerlike: wiki's written, solutions made... etc01:58
Macersomeone can keep track of this stuff heh01:58
DocScrutinizer05since one day it's closed now ;-D01:58
Estel_DocScrutinizer, it would be extremely hard foro hi mto contribute to CSSU, as he never held N900 in hand, and don't own N9 or N950 for months now, but, maybe...01:58
Estel_DocScrutinizer, haha :D01:58
Estel_Macer, and the, compare grapples to oranges?01:58
Macerhow is that? :)01:59
Estel_i.e. how many thanks on TMO = wiki edit?:P01:59
Macerno.. thanks are lame haha01:59
Estel_and one package is what? 5 articles?:P01:59
Macerheh.. i would say more of a point system01:59
Estel_those things are always subjective01:59
Estel_or we end up with idiotic results01:59
Estel_and, despite this small shitstorm, I must admit - shamelessly - that most people were satisfied by results01:59
Macerarticle = 5 pts.. applied accepted edit = 1 etc ;)01:59
Estel_no matter if they won or not01:59
Macerwell.. i think the problem is that people are selfish and concentrate on the things they do02:00
Estel_I recall 2 people that lost and cried, after all, and 2 that were not involved in any way, but still cried ;002:00
Macerwithout any regard to what others .. nor do they have a quick way to quantify WHY the other person won and not them ;)02:00
DocScrutinizer05Macer: we have a solid way to qualify - as solid as it gets, called karma02:00
Estel_DocScrutinizer, you know that chem|st won one too?02:00
MacerLOL... karma hahaha02:00
DocScrutinizer05only IRC never got into the equation02:00
MacerDocScrutinizer05: lol.. http ruined the world ;)02:01
Estel_^^this, + as You see, it's not even possible to agree on whats qualify02:01
Estel_*this = irc, not http)02:01
Macerirc ruined the world?02:01
Estel_IO would opt for reasonable people doing reasonable choices of winners, and, if not for those 4 people trolling, it seems that everyone agreed02:01
Macerno way.. irc is great ;)02:01
Estel_Macer, no, fire ruined the world :P02:02
Estel_I meant that irc doesn't qualify for karma, though, seriously02:02
DocScrutinizer05nevertheless all is based on karma, or been at least02:02
MacerEstel_: i'd say evolution ;)02:02
Estel_DocScrutinizer, honestly, I'm quite sure that most winners got their karma high02:02
Maceryou are talking of some sort of some webapp or something?02:02
Maceror actual karma? :)02:02
Estel_DocScrutinizer, also, someone may have 328757437854 karma, but been inactive for year02:02
Estel_while Ca was for continous contributions02:02
* Macer starts to spread happy thoughts to people02:02
Estel_Macer, karma is point system in TMO02:03
DocScrutinizer05yep, the karma decay is not completely implemented02:03
Estel_not TMO02:03
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Estel_some points for wiki, some points for edits, apckage testing, uploading, thanks onh tmo...02:03
Macerthere's karma ratings? :) i never really browsed too often02:03
Maceronly for need.. never for interest02:03
Estel_See? That why You were not good candidate for CA :P02:03
Maceri guess02:03
Maceri just hate the web ;)02:04
Macercan't blame me for that02:04
Estel_phone too?02:04
Estel_of course02:04
Estel_i'm just curious02:04
Macerphone too? no way. i love my n90002:04
Estel_You know, landlines got some romantic feel to them, now everyone cvarry phone with him...02:04
Maceri'm still heartbroken it is broken :(02:04
Estel_I'm joking.02:04
Estel_Macer, so repair it?02:04
RiDeyo girl wuss poppin :>02:04
Estel_Or buy new motherboard02:04
Maceryou can buy new n900 motherboards?02:04
Estel_hi blackberry02:04
Estel_Macer, no, You can buy new N90 0and take motherboard from it02:05
Macerthis is my 2nd one ;)02:05
Estel_= you can buy N900 with sad body and screen, then sue it's motherboard to repair Your ideal condition N90002:05
Macerfirst one had the usb break off02:05
Macer2nd one had the sim card reader/modem issue02:05
Maceri think i'm tapped out of will to buy another one02:05
Estel_Well, from time to time I have N900's with reinforced (via soldering, not epoxy...) ports, for sale02:05
RiDi only got one, about to send it to warranty this week lol02:05
Estel_RiD, and then to sue Nokia for trashing it?02:06
Estel_without Your allowance?02:06
MacerRiD: i couldn't they said the phone had to be sent via UK02:06
Macerat least the wifi still works.. i use it time to time02:06
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RiDEstel_ i there is still hope02:06
Macerbut i have att now anyways.. only reason i kept tmob was for my beloved n900 :(02:06
Estel_yea, that someone will finally sue them for criminal "support"02:06
RiDEstel_ and i suck at hardware reparations - and i wouldn't trust repair shops around here. They fix your issue, and add a couple more ones02:06
Macertmobile totally sucks in chicago02:06
Estel_RiD, totally agree02:06
Estel_but be carefull02:06
Estel_and write in bold letters, that you don't accept replacement, and don't allow them to recycle it02:07
Estel_as they seem to do so without asking02:07
RiDI am going to do that02:07
RiDfor sure. Also warn the guy at the nokia care02:07
Maceri wouldn't mind an e7 :)02:07
Maceror an n950 :-P02:07
Estel_yea, to sell it and buy N900 + have cash in hand after whole transaction02:07
MacerEstel_: well.. i'd actually WANT the e7 ;)02:07
Macersymbian doesn't suck02:07
Estel_eh, I already got one idi... guy asking me, if my N950 is for sale02:07
MacerN950s are collectors items02:08
Estel_symbian doesn't suck, it just blowjob Your mind02:08
Estel_he is smartphone, so he is smart, You don't have to.02:08
Maceryeah i guess.. but as long as i have a gtalk/xmpp and ssh client i'm good02:08
Macerthe rest is unnecessary02:08
Estel_he steals being smart from you :p02:08
RiDMacer i can give you a symbian device. N7302:08
Estel_5320 :P02:08
MacerRiD: lol02:08
RiDMacer little use. Missing screen, keyboard, case, speakers. Only motherboard + flex cable02:08
Maceri had an n9502:08
Macerbut i want a newer one ;)02:08
Macerlike an e702:09
RiDMacer no scratches at all. (since it has no case)02:09
Macermostly for the qwerty02:09
RiDMacer want a better option? It's in pristine condition02:09
Macergive me an n900 instead :-P02:09
Estel_seriously, E7 suxx, I want computer with phone function in my pocket02:09
Estel_not phone pretending that it can sshso it's computer :P02:09
MacerEstel_: n900 is the only one ;)02:09
Macerthe rest suck02:09
Estel_sadly, yes02:09
Maceri have a lumia 900.. sucks02:09
RiDMacer i thought about selling mine, took a look at those monster quad cores but erm02:09
Macerandroid sucks. ios sucks02:09
Estel_although, some guys try to chroot into fremantle from harm02:09
Macermaemo was the ONLY ONE02:09
RiDThey all seem so impractical to multitask on02:09
Macerwow i hate nokia02:09
Estel_and have HD working02:09
Estel_(hildon desktop)02:09
Estel_well, Fremantle run from chroot with 1GB of RAM would be somehow nice02:10
Macermaemo was the only true linux distro on a phone02:10
Estel_of course they want to sp;are us closed blobs02:10
* Macer sheds another tear for his n90002:10
Macerit's like the crippled kid02:10
Estel_Macer, Mer is, but fre ui for it - Nemo - is terrible02:10
RiDMore like nowadays music :>02:10
Macerthat's what i hear02:10
Macerbut no ui is no fun02:10
Estel_MAcer, but there is also plasma active, no idea about it02:10
DocScrutinizer05Macer: (karma)
Maceri haen't tried it02:11
Estel_write Your own :p02:11
Maceri want to put plasma on my transformer02:11
Macerjust need to figure out how soon :)02:11
Estel_so do Yourself a favor and make plasma lamp02:11
Macermaybe i will do it this weekend02:11
Estel_like good novice electronic engineer :P02:11
Macerplasma lamps are awesome :-P02:11
Estel_in fact, they are02:11
Macerbut i honestly wouldn't mind an e702:12
Maceri mean it isn't a bad phone.. just not well accepted :)02:12
RiDI also like those green glowing things that you put on your keys02:12
Estel_but, but, plasma as a mean to keep vacuum in penetrable container is even more OP02:12
RiDactually radiactive. but i forgot the name02:12
Macerbut my lumia 900 allows almost no background running02:12
Estel_RiD, androids, probably02:12
Estel_Macer, don't say that name in public :P02:12
Macerbest you can get is an app going while in the foreground with the screen blanked02:12
RiDEstel_ they're not that cool02:12
Estel_try that with wifi on ;)02:12
MacerEstel_: LOL yeah.. the wifi sucks too ;)02:13
Estel_Rid, little green guys to be put into your keys... looks like perfect description of android mascot02:13
Macerwtf is up with turning it off when the screen goes off02:13
Estel_radioactive too02:13
Macerwith no way to keep it on?02:13
Macerand NO wifi settings.. other than connecting with dhcp02:13
Estel_Macer, it's winphonme legacy02:13
Estel_winphone 6 was the same02:13
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Macerthey need to get rid of that02:13
Estel_few years ago I spent few days trying to figure out how to make it On with screen off02:13
Macerthe wifi chipsets probably waste less power than the cell modem :-P02:13
Estel_for my father's smartphone02:13
Maceryou can't02:13
Estel_no, seriously?:P noticed that02:14
Maceryou can't even set an ip or dns or gateway etc02:14
Estel_why you shouldn't, it have to be smart, not You02:14
Macerwhat if you didn't use dhcp?02:14
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Estel_it know better02:14
Maceryou're just screwed unless you use dhcp i guess02:14
Macermaybe if it doesn't find a dhcp server it asks you for the info02:14
Maceri wonder02:14
Estel_honestly, I'm surprised that You don't sell this crap, but, of course, none of my business02:14
Macerit isn't that bad at all tbh.. as far as a phone goes02:14
Estel_Mace,r sure, and what about DHCP servers that servere only pre-defined macs?...02:15
Maceri just miss the n900 luxuries :-/02:15
Estel_Macer, it *is* that bad, esp for that price. i.e. even if they give it for free02:15
Maceryeah hahaha. .it was pretty much free when i got it02:15
Estel_MAcer, I don't have this problem - I use N900 and don't need to miss anything :)02:15
Macerwell.. 2 of my n900s broke02:15
Maceri'm not buying another one unless i find one for like 20$02:15
Estel_*shrugs* solder usb on 3th one and You should be good02:15
Estel_no problem .I can sell you one for 180 euro :p02:16
ds3how did it break?02:16
Macerds3: sim reader problem02:16
Macerwhere it keeps resetting the sim02:16
Estel_his n900? 1st usb port 2nd cell modem failure02:16
Estel_Macer, try hammer method from TMO :P02:16
Macerhammer method? LOL02:16
Macerthat doesn't sound good02:16
Macerdid the person who wrote it get an n950?02:16
Estel_yea, one guy fixed it by using hammer and nails, and it was xnot joke02:16
Macercontribution of the year02:17
Estel_well, I suspect broken solder joints02:17
Macergoes to .. the hammer method02:17
Estel_reflowing would fix it better02:17
Macerbroken solder joints?02:17
Macerwhy not just resolder?02:17
* Estel_ nods02:17
Estel_no idea, I would resolder.02:17
Estel_he preffered hammer.02:17
* Estel_ shrugs02:17
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SpeedEvilreflowing is not particularly trivial02:17
Estel_SpeedEvil, but it's not under chip02:18
Estel_it's only under sim car holder02:18
SpeedEvilSure it is02:18
Maceris it?02:18
SpeedEvilUmm - no.02:18
SpeedEvilSIM card errors are not errors due to the SIM card connector02:18
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Estel_well, if using hammer @ sim car holderhelped him...02:18
Estel_SpeedEvil, sometimes are.02:18
Estel_sometimes it's about gsm modem02:18
SpeedEvilI would go so far as to say almost never.02:18
Macerhow can you tell the difference?02:18
Estel_so, people putting 2nd sim or paper to make pressure?02:18
Maceryeah. mine worked ok putting pressure on it with paper02:19
Macerfor a while.. then it stopped working :(02:19
SpeedEvilIn principle, if spcing the contacts out on the SIM reader, or cleaning them made it work again flawlessly02:19
SpeedEvilPutting paper under it also stresses the board02:19
MacerSpeedEvil: i tried that too02:19
SpeedEvilwhich can change the nature of a bad solder ball.02:19
SpeedEviland make it contact again for a bit02:19
Maceror just hit it with a hammer and bend it back02:20
Estel_SpeedEvil, someone suggested, that heat from battery make sim card holder - and, through it, balls - to heat and cool02:20
Estel_thus errors02:20
Estel_or can be related?02:20
Estel_somehow, I doubt it...02:20
SpeedEvilThere is essentially no heat from the battery that's meaningful.02:20
Macerheat from the battery ? heh02:20
Maceri was about to say02:20
Estel_SpeedEvil, exactly my thoughts02:20
Macerthe battery probably doesn't produce much02:20
SpeedEvilAt most ~20C - with an old battery02:21
Estel_I'vbe never seen it going more than 60 C02:21
Estel_SpeedEvil, no joke, when using 1A of power it's 50c without problem02:21
MacerSpeedEvil: so are the broken contacts simply unreachable with a soldering iron?02:21
Estel_Macer, yes.02:21
DocScrutinizer05simcardholder pins are _not_ under simcard holder02:21
Estel_but ther eis other idea02:21
DocScrutinizer05a plain 8 pins easily resolderable02:21
Macerthat sucks02:21
SpeedEvilMacer: they are under the chips likely02:21
Estel_DocScrutinizer, huh? so why paper between simcard and holder works?02:21
SpeedEvilMacer: A delaminated board.02:22
DocScrutinizer05and gigantic in relation to other such pads02:22
SpeedEvilMacer: Ball02:22
SpeedEvilIn principle resoldering the SIM connector is easy02:22
Estel_well, many people repaired video cards by removing what was possible to be removed...02:22
Estel_and putting it for ten minutes in oven02:22
Estel_250 C02:22
Estel_side effect - plastic aprts on motherboard lose color02:22
Macerin soviet russia we bake phones!02:22
Estel_Macer, it's old, actually, and confirmed to work ion 90 % of cases02:23
SpeedEvilIn principle, that's possible, to a degree.02:23
Estel_(if it doens't work due to bad ball)02:23
Macerwow really?02:23
SpeedEvilIt would however require several test cycles to find a likely profile that will work, and not kill the board.02:23
Maceryou lie :)02:23
Estel_of course. It's all due to crappy, RoHS solder used02:23
Estel_SpeedEvil, true02:23
Estel_wlel, good old Pb solder was more resistant02:23
Macerbut i feel skeptical about doing that02:23
Estel_Macer, |I was surprised to first time :p02:24
Estel_Macer, actually, do it only if You have nothing to lose02:24
Macerhow much would nokia charge to fix it?02:24
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Macerif i sent it in for repair?02:24
Estel_i.e. graphic card, that cost similar ammount to reflowing02:24
Macerand opted to pay?02:24
Estel_Macer, they wouldn't fix it for any ammount of money02:24
Estel_ask them02:24
Macerhow much would their contracted repair place charge?02:24
SpeedEvilMacer: they will not fix it02:25
Estel_DocScrutinizer, BTw, you know that I was able to screw one N900 while strenghtening USb port via solder method?02:25
Macerso my option is to reflow or shove it in an oven?02:25
Estel_somehow, still mystery for me, USB - and V5 got crossed02:25
Estel_no idea why, my soldering iron was far away02:25
Estel_happened to me only, once, I was super carefull from this accident02:26
Estel_the strangest thing was that I wasn't able to see cross looking at pins02:26
Estel_and when connected charger to port, it looked like spark is coming from inside laminate, lol02:26
Estel_just like heat made it to cross under surface02:26
Estel_it was fuckin unrepairable02:27
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Macerso set the oven to 250 and keep it in ther ehow long?02:27
Estel_that made, of course, my charhing chip totally broken, resulting in one N900 inw orld that does work, but doesn't answer for i2c request regarding charging02:27
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Macertoo bad i can't just put it in the microwave02:27
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Estel_siode effect - camera wasn't working too, for reasons unknown, I've scavenged working camera module from it02:28
Estel_Macer, haha02:28
Estel_Macer, instructions are likely:02:28
Estel_pre-heat oven to 250 C02:28
Estel_dissasemble N900 removing whatever is possible to remove, camera module absolutely necessary02:28
Maceri have to preheat it too? am i baking cookies afterwards? :)02:28
Estel_or it will be screwed02:28
Estel_yes :)02:28
nox-..and your next pizza will taste like? :)02:28
SpeedEvilPreheat for 12 hours at 80C02:28
Macernox-: chinese02:28
Estel_when it's 250 C, put N900 for 7 to 10 minutes02:28
SpeedEvilto avoid the chips popcorning02:28
nox-Macer, :)02:29
Estel_preheat oven only, not N900 :P02:29
Estel_well, it's true, that smell isn't best02:29
MacerEstel_: maybe i'll try it this weekend ;)02:29
Estel_better do it without wife at home02:29
Estel_7-10 minutews02:29
Estel_no longer02:29
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Estel_and remove it quickly02:29
SpeedEvilPreheat the n90002:29
Estel_then, allow it to cool slowly02:29
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Estel_"don't remove it quickly*"02:29
SpeedEvilyou need to dry out any moisture in the chips.02:29
Macercam module is just a detatchable ribbon cable isn't it?02:29
Estel_SpeedEvil, lol, I was told to not pre-heat it02:30
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Estel_Macer, no02:30
SpeedEvilPreheating to 80C.02:30
Estel_Speed evil, and then?02:30
DocScrutinizer05WTF? disconnected02:30
Macerdetatchable part? i forget.. i haven't taken one apart since my usb debacle02:30
Estel_MAcer, to remove camera module You need either camera module removal tool, or two gilletes02:30
Estel_and screwdriver02:30
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Estel_or one gillete broken into two02:30
MacerDocScrutinizer05: the irc council had a vote and decided only they get the irc connections02:31
Estel_and screwdriver02:31
Estel_SpeedEvil, good point about moisture and popcorn02:31
MacerEstel_: honestly. are you from russia? :)02:31
Estel_SpeedEvil, so, after pre-heating N90 0to 80 C, remove it form oven and pre-heat oven to 250, or what?02:31
Estel_Macer, nope02:31
Macertwo half gillettes and a screwdriver? hehe02:31
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Estel_and baking chips was invented in UK02:31
Macersounds like soviet spacecraft work02:31
Estel_MAcer, try to remove module otherwise, without removal tool which is freaking expensive02:31
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Estel_well, for me it sounds like DIOY ;)02:32
Macerwell.. i will try it out this weekend02:32
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Macerworst i'll have is just another broken n90002:32
Maceri'll just send you guys the other parts like the screens etc :-P02:32
Macermaybe i'll get an n950 for my community work02:32
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Estel_SpeedEvil, so, seriously,l after pre-heating N900 to 80C, what next?02:33
Estel_remove it from the oven?02:33
Estel_and heat oven further, to 250 C?02:33
Macerlol.. .C?02:33
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Maceri'd need to convert to F :-P02:33
SpeedEvilleave it for 12 hours02:33
SpeedEvilthen remove02:33
Maceryou wacky EUs02:33
Estel_Mace,r one guy already promsied that he will try to repair broken eMMC balls with it, but he never replied02:33
Macerwith your weird measurements02:33
SpeedEvilI question this is useful though02:33
Estel_SpeedEvil, no no02:34
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Estel_I'm asking how to p[rotect 80 C N900 from moisture02:34
Estel_while pre-heating oven to 250 C02:34
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SpeedEvilDoesn't matter02:34
Estel_and before you put it to 250 C for 6-10 minutes02:34
MacerEstel_: well. like i said.. i'll look it up and try it over the weekend02:34
* Estel_ nods02:34
SpeedEvilit will be dry, and will not absorb moisture meaningfully in the time it's out02:34
Macerwho knows :)02:34
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Estel_Macer, ok, but listen, to notmake fata mistake02:34
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SpeedEvilThe problem is that moisture gets deep into the package02:34
Estel_after 6-10 minutes, immediately open oven and turn it off, but don't remove N90 0from it02:34
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Estel_let it cool down slowly02:35
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Estel_to avoid cracking of balls02:35
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Estel_and, basically, anything02:35
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Macerso don't put it in a pool of water afterwards like i'm smelting iron swords?02:35
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Estel_it should drop quicklyto 150 or 120 C due to opened owen,...02:35
Estel_Macer, yea ;)02:35
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Estel_then report back02:35
Macerwhat do i put it on?02:35
Macera pizza pan?02:35
Estel_and, remember, 8-10 minutes was for graphic cards, which are bigger a little02:35
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Estel_erm, baking paper?02:36
Macerbaking paper?02:36
* Estel_ nods02:36
Estel_it's sold as foil or as paper, both high temperature resistant02:36
Estel_remember to strip n900 motherboard bare as much as possible02:36
Maceryeah will do02:36
Estel_and asny plastic part may lose it's colour02:36
Estel_I'm not sure about keyboard, the internal one, and it's foil02:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer, might have better knowledge if it's removeable02:37
Estel_and re-attachable02:37
Macerthe keyboard has plastic that melts rather easily02:37
Estel_i don't mean black keyboard02:37
Maceri know :-P02:37
Estel_i'm thinking about white thing on motherboard, that cover real keys02:37
DocScrutinizer05it is, when you are extremely carefull02:37
Maceri'm talking the internal white stuff02:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer, how this things is removed and re-attached?02:38
Estel_it's glued, isn't it?02:38
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DocScrutinizer05razotblade otr dentis-pin02:38
Estel_well, i'm very curious what you will cook.02:38
* Estel_ nods02:38
DocScrutinizer05and *carefully*02:38
Macerin soviet russia we bake n900s02:38
Estel_I was able to de-attach digitizer from mask this way02:38
Estel_well, in fact, in USA02:38
DocScrutinizer05yes, sticky02:38
Estel_as You'r one will be first confirmed report of such try02:38
MacerEstel_: some may argue they are the same thing nowadays02:39
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Estel_I'm keeping my thumbs for it ;)02:39
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Estel_well, don't over-cook it02:39
Estel_and it stand chance02:39
Macerheh.. i will do it this weekend02:39
Estel_would be epicly funny to see it repaired this way02:39
Macerif it works that would be awesome02:39
DocScrutinizer05attaching is maybe even more demanding than removing02:39
Maceri'll blog it ;)02:39
Estel_just don't do like thisd last guy who promised to try it and never ever answered again02:39
DocScrutinizer05it has to fit, you know?02:39
MacerDocScrutinizer05: the keyboard?02:39
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Estel_DocScrutinizer, from common sense, what's worse, removing it and re-attaching, or risk of melting it?02:40
Macercan't i just use some sort of air heater?02:40
Estel_I don't think it have chance in 250 C for 7 minutes02:40
Maceron the specific section?02:40
DocScrutinizer05there's a Nokia guiding tool for attaching new domesheet02:40
Estel_Macer, no way02:40
Estel_DocScrutinizer, we need to hire mercenaries and scavenge some tools from Nokia02:40
DocScrutinizer05it will melt and go fubar02:40
Estel_would make life easier02:40
Macerheh ah well02:41
Estel_so, removal is necessary02:41
* SpeedEvil wants a pile of old broken n900 motherboards.02:41
MacerEstel_: mark your calendar02:41
DocScrutinizer05definitely not rewlow'able02:41
Maceri will do it this weekend02:41
Estel_on TMO there is photo on how to remove camera module with gilletes and screwdriver02:41
Macerand bake my n90002:41
Estel_"what's cooking"? :)02:41
Macerif it breaks... i'll blend it02:41
Macerwell.. oven type stuff is more of a bake02:41
SpeedEvil(well, I want a pile of new, working OMAP5 boards, but...)02:41
Macercooking is usually pans02:41
Maceri want a rasberry pi :-/02:42
Macerpeople started getting them and i hear they're actually quite awesome02:42
Estel_Today I got reply that those bastards sent it via royal mail, 2-3 weekls delivery02:42
SpeedEvilMacer: It's a 12 year old laptop - basically.02:42
Estel_and they charged like for DHL02:42
Macerthey have a ver of xbmc that works great on raspi02:42
SpeedEvilMacer: With a decent GPU, that can decode one modern codec02:42
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SpeedEvil'great' varies.02:42
Estel_SpeedEvil, but 12 years old laptop weights 3 KG02:42
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: ping02:42
MacerSpeedEvil: well... he said it plays 1080p mkv just fine running rasbmc02:43
DocScrutinizer05ShadowJK: any mail?02:43
Estel_Macer, but it doesn't play DVD's, i.e. mpeg-202:43
Macerwh the hell uses that anymore? :)02:43
Macermpeg2 is like .. so 1990s02:43
Estel_Macer, DVB-T in some countries, and, of course, good old DVDS02:43
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MacerEstel_: i haven't even touched a dvd in like 5 years02:43
Estel_XBMC without DVD is questionable02:43
Macerthat's what handbrake is for ;)02:43
Estel_don't tell me that You use blue-ray daily ;)02:44
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Maceri usually just encode mkvs02:44
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Estel_encodiong = quality loss02:44
Estel_I'mquality geek02:44
MacerEstel_: i'm not that much of a videophile to care ;)02:44
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Macerand high quality h264/dts works fine02:44
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Estel_for music I either use FLAC or ogg with settings, that make it "transparent encoding"02:44
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Maceryou'd have to have an eagle eye and dog ears to notice it :)02:45
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Estel_which reminds me of idiots who record in 96 KHZ just to down-sample it to 48 later02:45
Estel_because they think it produce better quality02:45
SpeedEvilThey may be right, depending on the filter.02:46
Estel_Macer, hardware improves, I want it to persist ideal for historical reasons too, not be forced to re-encode from loong-lsot originals in 10 years02:46
RiDi hate securom so much :[02:46
Macervinyl is a more true sound02:46
* Macer hides02:46
Estel_SpeedEvil, honestly, if You plan to mix in 48, better record in it02:46
RiDnot if you scratch it :D02:46
MacerRiD: heh02:46
Estel_RiD, exactly02:46
MacerRiD: i saw people arguing over that crap for an hour02:46
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Macertalking about how the analog wave produces a richer sound02:46
RiDand I came here to extend that period02:46
Macerlike someone would even notice that02:47
Macerdigital waves step02:47
Estel_Macer, honestly, it doesn't produce a richer sound,s but sound that they're more used too02:47
Estel_I'm used to my Audigy 2ZS gold sound02:47
Estel_cause every equipment got it own little disortions02:47
RiDi'm used to crap speakers02:47
Estel_that we get used to02:47
Maceri guess... but these fools swore the waves produced by analog as oppsed to digital were better02:47
RiDbecause crap is cheap02:47
Macerbe serious :)02:47
Macernobody can physically hear that02:47
Estel_Macer, what really destroyes effect is loudness war02:47
Estel_*this* is thing everyone can hear02:48
RiDpeople worrying about the vinyl02:48
RiDhow about the actual speakers02:48
Estel_i.e. sacrificing varying sound (sounds range) for just mixing louder02:48
Estel_RiD, in fact, good sounding speakers doesn't have to be expensive02:48
MacerRiD: lol02:48
Estel_many expensive are good ones, but it's not rule02:48
Macerthe best ones are the people with digital turntables :)02:49
RiDEstel_ i know. I am currently using not-good-for-audiophiles old Logitech Z-56002:49
Macerwhich convert the sound to digital anyways02:49
Estel_Macer, lol02:49
Macerdon't newer turntables have lasers?02:49
RiDJust don't feel like spending money on it anytime soon. With a global equalizer to raise the higher pitches it still sounds reasonalbe.02:49
Estel_I would love analog that measures vinyl by laser, not physical needle02:49
Estel_RiD, i don't use equalizers at all, unles on really, really disorted things02:50
MacerEstel_: real time tick and scratch skipping ? ;)02:50
Estel_like mobile speakers02:50
Estel_Macer, no, just protecting vinyls from scratch02:50
RiDEstel_ i use equalizer because my speakers lack some higher mids and the highs overall02:50
Estel_when laser or diode follows track, not needle02:50
Macerfinding new vinyls is hard sometimes02:50
Estel_Macer, not necessary02:50
MacerEstel_: i thought they had those02:50
Macerlaser needles02:51
Estel_Macer, quite possible, I don't have one, so I'm afraid to run my vinyls :P02:51
Estel_well, actually, I have some vinyls and no adaptor at all :P02:51
Estel_basically, i'm collecting everything related to Tori Amos music02:51
Maceryou should look it up ;)02:51
Macerbest part is when you get the laser needle.. get ready to use it.. pull the vinyl out.. and drop the record onto the floor lol02:52
Estel_...including some pirate things, that she haven't been aware of (existence) while signing it02:52
RiDThe only thing i collect is dust on my table.02:53
Estel_wqell, I do listen to this music, except vinyls, kept for special ocassions02:54
Estel_so, I'm eagerly waiting for Macer report about cxooking, lol. Without high hopes, but...02:55
RiDhell, i hate this securom drm02:55
Estel_RiD, get rid of securom02:56
RiDi have to use it02:56
RiDotherwise i can't play the game02:56
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Estel_RiD, don't play games with securom02:57
Estel_either pirate it on purpose, or screw as whole :)02:57
Estel_Macer, they converted it to F, but they use 200 C02:57
Estel_I recommend more02:57
Estel_maybe 250 is too high for N90002:57
RiD230 is the sweet spot02:57
RiDSecuROM detects the disc emulator software02:58
Estel_from math, or from practice?02:58
Estel_RiD, I know02:58
Estel_but it have been hacked anyway, ages ago02:58
RiDI really need a workaround02:58
RiDYes, but apparently I'm not updated on these areas02:58
Estel_jsut don't playgames with securom02:58
RiDbut then I can't play my favorite game02:58
Estel_tell vendors that release witrrh securom to GTFO02:58
RiDthat i finally legally own lol02:58
Estel_show them middle finger02:58
Estel_so sell it on aftermarket with disgust02:59
RaimuBuy physical copy, leech warez version off the Internet.02:59
Estel_securom is *only* to not allow legal owners to play02:59
RaimuSorry, did I say warez? I meant to say Linux distro!02:59
Estel_RiD, every priating person have no problem with playting securom things downloaded from... erm, linux distro02:59
Estel_securom is special gift for You, from loving developers02:59
Estel_and, even more, from vendor02:59
RiDthe fact is that I don't own the game physically02:59
Estel_You own it mentally?03:00
RiDErm. The game is activated with the serial and so on03:00
Estel_I know it. I feel like owning dizzy collection from amiga03:00
Estel_I know, I know :P03:00
RiDbut since i don't own the disc, I am trying to get a iso / mds working03:00
Estel_I tell you, just screw games with securom. At worst, pirate them, as securom is criminal attack on your rights.03:00
Estel_At best, ignore them as whole03:00
RiDI had it pirated. Then bought it for 0$03:01
Estel_tell us more about buying game with secxurom for 0 usd03:01
RiDnow i'm trying to fool securom into thinking my virtual disc is physic for real03:01
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Estel_run it under linux with wine. problem solved03:01
RiDbut no multiplayer!03:01
Estel_why so?03:02
RiDbecause it needs securom :(03:02
Estel_so download cracked version, if youre piratting it anyway03:02
Estel_or mvoe to better games03:02
RiDI've been playing this game cracked since 2009 or so.03:02
Estel_You know how many FOSS games with great details etc are out there waiting for You?:P03:02
RiDBut I recently got a legit serial key that validated and all.03:03
Estel_so continue to do, if you really bought it03:03
RiDBut i never owned it physically. I want to try multiplayer03:03
Estel_You see? being legal only bring troubles03:03
RiDThat's why I barely have any physical game03:03
Estel_burn images on real disc03:03
Estel_use them03:03
Estel_with Your legal serial03:03
Estel_problem solved.03:03
RiDIt needs specific settings03:03
RiDi guess03:03
RiDi can't get the DPM right03:03
* RST38h yawns, wonders what this conversation is about03:04
Estel_no idea, search in google for it03:04
Estel_RST38h, we jsut ended about cooking N900 in 250 C in oven03:04
Estel_and popcorning chips03:04
Macerfinal fantasy for wp7 :)03:04
Estel_hate thos mangas03:04
* nox- not a gamer but this reminds me of
Macerhey! show ff some respect!03:04
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RiDconflict again!03:05
RiDdamn :(03:05
Estel_nox-, brillant03:06
Estel_especially, that it's true03:06
Estel_dissasemble of matrix dvd :P03:06
Estel_it really looked this way IIRC03:06
RiDi think I found a good fix03:06
RiDat least it works as per 17/08/201103:06
Estel_Rid, throwin it out of window?03:06
RiDsince the game was in 2008 or so, there should be no issue03:06
RiDNo, it involves throwing out the desk03:06
RiDnot window03:06
RiDI'll try it tomorrow. See you all03:06
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RST38h...mass relocation of resources necessitating the purchase of antique railroad tracks...04:10
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Estel_DAFUQ!? Homeworld on N900!04:20
Estel_Never though it's possible, really04:20
Estel_absolutely awesome, heaven for gamers04:20
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kwtm~seen kwtm06:55
kwtmseen kwtm06:55
infobotkwtm is currently on #maemo (21s). Has said a total of 1 messages. Is idling for 3s, last said: '~seen kwtm'.06:55
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Estel_kwtm, missed Yourself?07:14
kwtmI did.  Boy, it's been a long time!07:14
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zeqfreemangordon: qt4 built fine with 4.6.307:49
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zeqqt seems to work fine too :)09:05
freemangordonzeq: I am going to "almost working" stuff, NFC why, but you should rotate twice in order the contene to be redrawn :(09:07
* freemangordon is still having his coffee09:07
freemangordonso, I am going to commit ...09:07
zeqthis is based on the bitmap rotation code or h-d rotation?09:09
zeqcool :)09:10
freemangordonall maemo6 stuff is #ifdef'ed09:10
zeqso it's not picking up on the rotation notification?09:11
freemangordonit is09:11
zeqonly every other time?09:11
freemangordonno, the notification is pcked up every ti, but the following "resize" not, it seems some more code is needed09:12
freemangordonbut it has something to do with Qt, will need some forther investigation09:13
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zeqI'll take a look once it's pushed09:14
freemangordonok, gimme a minute09:14
freemangordonBTW what is strange is that it rotetes even when blacklisted09:15
freemangordonand there is no setAttribute(Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation, true);09:15
freemangordonok, pushed to master09:17
zeqthat shouldn't happen!09:17
freemangordonzeq: I know09:17
zeqI'll get it built and have a look09:18
zeqis the debian/rules setup to just work now?09:18
freemangordonyou'll have to fetch from master to maemo5 branch09:18
freemangordonyep, debian/rules should work, but there are in maemo509:19
freemangordon*it is09:19
zeqyup ok09:19
freemangordonAm I sleepy, heh :)09:19
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zeqwhat time is it there?09:21
zeq07:20 here :)09:21
zeqbeen up since 05:30, breakfast duty09:22
freemangordonit is just very hard to wake me up09:22
freemangordonnot that it is early morning09:22
zeqI think I'll get scratchbox running on the server before starting building09:26
zeqI'll take a look at the code while scratchbox installs...09:29
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freemangordonok. btw I think I found why it rotates when it should not, there is a second process (plugin-container) and it is not blacklisted09:30
freemangordonno, it is not that :(09:32
freemangordonactually the sidebars are ok, just the content (the one in the middle)09:32
zeqchanges look good09:35
freemangordonWTF? blacklisting fennec insted of Fennc fices the things. Hooray09:36
freemangordon*fennec instead of Fennec09:36
freemangordonbut why it rotates in the first place?09:36
freemangordoncould be something with Qt in CSSU09:37
zeqso you've made it not rotate?09:37
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freemangordoni blacklisted it, and now it behaves correctly every time09:37
freemangordonand rotates as it should09:37
zeqI'm confused09:38
freemangordonno, it is not :(. damn, cannot figure out what triggers correct behaviour.09:38
zeqmaybe put it in some debugging output?09:40
freemangordondon't have tim enow, gtg t work in a couple of minutes09:40
zeqI need to test it to understand what's happening09:40
zeqok. I'll see what I can do.09:41
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zeqsee you later :)09:42
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vi__luke-jr: pong10:52
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freemangordonzeq: any aprticular reason to use Qt backeng instead of GTK?11:41
zeqfreemangordon: it's supposed to be much faster, and is now one of only two official fennec backends.11:43
zeqgtk is still there but it's no longer supported11:43
zeqthat's why Mozilla dropped fennec for Maemo11:43
zeqhw accelerated rendering11:44
freemangordonhmm, linking with gtk2 backen, lets see if it will run11:44
freemangordonbut gtk on maem05 has all the hw acceleraed rendering you may wish11:44
freemangordonit is the same one microb is using11:45
freemangordonand it IS fast11:45
zeqyeah, I don't know the rationale for fennec dropping gtk11:45
zeqtoo many backends to maintain?11:46
freemangordonas it is gtk211:46
zeqit's still the default for firefox afaik11:46
zeqdefinitely outdated11:46
freemangordonwell, lets see. Did you look why the hell Qt one behave strangely?11:47
zeqI was reading the Qt examples for Hildon integration, it doesn't look that difficult to hook up.11:47
freemangordonyep, it is not11:47
freemangordonactually it should work oob11:48
zeqIt's taking a while to back up my scratchbox, I forgot to unmount the bind mounts first!11:48
zeq(moving to my server)11:48
zeqI did wonder why it was taking so long11:49
zeqI noticed that a #ifdef MOZ_X11 got #ifdef'd out by the maemo5 block in the resize function11:50
freemangordonyes, but lemme check11:51
freemangordonthat code is used for _MEEGOTOUCH_ORIENTATION_ANGLE11:52
freemangordonwe deffinitely don't need it11:52
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zeqif that's all it was, strange it was MOZ_X11, unless it's abused somewhere else11:53
freemangordonNFC, that code is like spaghetti11:54
freemangordonok, gtk2 .deb ready, lets see how it will behave11:54
zeqit's a wonder it works :P11:54
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freemangordon_damn, cannot connect remotely to may desktop anymore :-(12:07
freemangordon_otherwise gtk fennec works like charm. but is slow :-D12:07
zeqslow, figures12:07
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freemangordon_it is VERY slow12:08
zeqoh well12:08
freemangordon_hmm, seems my desktop appeared12:08
zeqthat's good!12:08
freemangordonyes, it is here12:08
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zeqI wonder why it is so slow12:09
freemangordonmaybe mozconfig options are incorrect12:09
zeqFirefox is pretty quick lately12:09
zeqI think it's an architectural thing12:09
freemangordonI think we shloud do wthat we can to use gtk, it uses 2-3 times less memory than qt version12:09
zeqfirefox doesn't really use much gtk anymore afaik12:10
zeqmostly bypasses it12:10
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zeqjust creates the window and widgets, but then uses other APIs12:10
freemangordonanyway, I am back to work, bbl12:10
zeqok, have fun12:11
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zeqfreemangordon: I'm seeking advice from mozilla devs regarding what to do.12:31
qwazixperformance difference between android xul version / native gui, and fennec / microb suggests the hog maybe xulrunner. How hard would it be to cook up a native qt interface?12:33
qwazixIf i am not mistaken opera uses qt for interface too12:34
zeqqwazix: that's what we've been doing, but it seems the qtwidget uses much more memory12:35
zeqit is fast though12:35
qwazixOh sorry, thought that it was just xul running over qt12:35
zeqqwazix: well, yes it is, but that's how mozilla browsers work, or am I missing something?12:36
zeqit's an accelerated xul engine12:36
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zeqas is the android port. I could well be missing something...12:37
qwazixCheck out v14 on android. They got rid of xul altogether I think, and there is native java dalvik ui, suspect something microb (although microb does still use xul for some windows - addons etc)12:37
zeqqwazix: you could well be right12:38
zeqhang on12:38
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zeqyup you are12:38
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zeqthat said the qt xul widget is fast12:39
zeqqwazix: we kind of do already have a native port ofc, microb12:40
qwazixmaybe that's why microb is faster even with the aging 1.9 gecko12:41
zeqthe tricky part is updating the engine, since we don't have all the sources12:42
qwazixif microb's ui was open it would be the end of all our troubles. The N8xx microb is fully open AFAIK12:42
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zeqI don't suppose it exposes the same interface...?12:43
SpeedEvilqwazix: Maybe we could kick in some cash for it. I've got 28 pence. That should buy a substantial part of nokia these days.12:44
qwazixDon't know really12:44
qwazixSpeedEvil: haha, add 2eur from me too12:44
zeqSpeedEvil: I think you're onto something :)12:44
freemangordongoing to try it with --enable-egl-xrender-composite12:51
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zeqfreemangordon:  ok, sounds fast :)12:54
zeqbtw I asked on the mozilla mobile dev channel about it, they suggested I wait 8hr for romaxa to wake up12:57
vi__is /tmp on maemo just a regular directory on rootfs (n900)?12:57
chem|sttmpfs on /tmp12:59
SpeedEvilNokia-N900-42-11:~# df12:59
SpeedEvilFilesystem           1k-blocks      Used Available Use% Mounted on12:59
SpeedEvilrootfs                  233344    149788     79272  65% /12:59
SpeedEvilubi0:rootfs             233344    149788     79272  65% /12:59
SpeedEviltmpfs                     1024        76       948   7% /tmp12:59
vi__So it would be safe to delete /tmp and replace it with a symlink to /opt/tmp?12:59
vi__This would survive reboots?12:59
SpeedEvilAs I understand it - tmpfs in the above example is using (about) 76K of RAM13:00
SpeedEvilthat's questionable13:00
chem|stvi__: tmpfs is ramdisk13:00
SpeedEvilI'm unsure if symlinks will work13:01
vi__how odd.13:01
chem|stvi__: so no it is not, to answere your question13:01
keriowhy would you want to preserve /tmp :S13:01
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vi__I do not, but some scripts, programs etc dump lots of data in tmp.13:01
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* japh dumps vi__ in /tmp.13:07
vi__japh: whaa....?13:08
StyXmanjargon-: reboot, fast!13:09
SpeedEvilruskie: Just a teeny step above accusing him of molesting ducks.13:09
StyXmanjaph: ^^^^^^13:09
SpeedEvilruskie: Not that I don't agree13:09
japhvi__, hi! you know that n950 I wanted to sell13:10
japhI'm still having issues with navigating the thing, I think there's something wrong with my fingers and not the phone, but other than that I've started to like it a lot. I'm glad I didn't just throw it away like I was going to do ...13:11
vi__japh: one sold on ebay in the last month for £920 GBP13:12
vi__That is around 1150 euros.13:12
japhoh dear that's insane13:12
vi__japh: that is how insanely rare they are.13:13
vi__you could even sell abroken one for a couple of hundreds.13:14
japhI read an article on one of the maemo/meego news sites yesterday that nokia was going to hand out a bunch of n9{,50}s this summer?13:14
vi__Oh wow.13:14
japhI'm not really seeing why they would do that since I thought they had left us to rot13:14
vi__You do not keep up with TMO do you?13:14
SpeedEviljaph: yesterday?13:14
vi__The main forum for maemo.13:14
SpeedEvilthere was a recent round of giveaways13:14
vi__People there would trade you their left nut for that n950.13:14
japhI'm not that fond of forums, I prefer mail13:15
vi__There is so much rage and butthurt WRT people who did not win you can almost cut it.13:15
japhI'd wanted the n950 since I first read about it but I gave it up when I realized this wasn't something I could buy for money13:16
vi__Fortunatley, I was awarded one.13:16
japhand then all of a sudden when I was thinking about if I should go grab that damn n9 anyway, despite it not having a keyboard, someone came along 'hey want this?'13:17
vi__It was controversial.13:17
japhare you a dev?13:17
japhor was it your charm?13:17
vi__what is a dev?13:17
* SpeedEvil dreams of a world in which nokia decides to release specs for all of its non-lumia handsets, and enable community dev.13:17
* vi__ drools at speedevils phantasm.13:17
japha special character13:17
vi__I have been hanging around the forum daily for ~ 2 years now.13:18
vi__I generally fix peoples problems.13:18
Hurrianjaph, nokia's currently handing them out right now.13:18
vi__write scripts.13:18
japhyou're a fixer!13:18
vi__push fremantle as far as it can go.13:18
japhhurrian, okay. surely not to me13:18
japh.oO(or should I try?)13:18
vi__japh: you are too late.13:19
japhthat's what the girls always say :(13:19
Hurrianvi__, apparently the fires have spread all over the forum c/o certain characters13:20
japhwell what do you think, is the n9 even worth not having a real keyboard, or should I instead buy more n900's like I was going to in the first place?13:20
Hurrianjaph, moar N900s13:20
japhreally love this device.13:20
vi__MOAR N900s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!13:20
japhI just wish it had 2 x ram13:20
Hurrianjaph, compcache and 805MHz fixes most lack-of-ram problems13:21
vi__Hurrian: It would be fine if 1 member of the council could to learn to keep his fucking outh shut sometimes.13:21
japhplease don't laugh but I haven't overclocked my device13:21
Hurrianother than that, you can't really expect to run crazy shit quickly on the phone13:21
chem|stjaph: they are working on thumb2 alternatives which frees some ram13:21
AliasXZ|awabout the ram, i have swap on microsd only, seems to of improved performance quite a bit13:21
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japhI tried for 2 hours getting that damn sd card into the phone13:22
japhagain - my fingers are not compatible13:22
SpeedEvil2 hours?13:22
vi__you tried to fit a SD card into a uSD slot?13:22
SpeedEvilI'm pretty sure I could do it with my nose in that time.13:22
japhit's insanely small!!13:22
japhvi__, :p13:22
japhspeedevil, great, come on over13:22
Hurrianjaph, you probably literally have sausage fingers13:23
japhI can let you touch my n95013:23
vi__japh: that means you have one of the first n950s.  The prototypes.13:23
japhhurrian, yes13:23
SpeedEvilActually - I'm wrong.13:23
chem|stcan I have a video of the nose part?13:23
japhvi__, o.o13:23
SpeedEvilI can't push the slider over with my nose13:23
vi__AFAIK the first n950s had a uSD slot and a 12MP camera.13:23
japhvi__, no, I tried to get the microsd card into my n90013:23
vi__later they had none+8MP camera.13:24
japhso are there 2 models? I haven't seen that13:24
japhwhat I've read however is that there's supposed to be an fm transmitter, but I for sure can not find it13:24
SpeedEvilMy n950 has a 18MP camera*.13:24
Hurrianvi__, that was the Jessie's Girl N950, right?13:24
Hurrianthe silver one?13:24
SpeedEvil*(may be a lie)13:24
chem|stvi__: it was discussed that 8MP/ws must be 12MP 4:3....13:24
vi__japh: o0 Maybe you should seek medial attention if you cannot manipulate somthing like an uSD card.13:24
Hurrianjaph, it's said that they have fm chips, just missing antennas iirc13:25
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vi__chem|st: yeah, so the hardware is capabale of 12MP but it is crippled in software.13:25
japhhurrian, hms :s13:25
japhwhat's the leasy sucky alternative to the n9xx's if we're looking at nonnokia stuff? I guess there's still nothing that plays in the same league?13:27
japhI've learned that android I do not want13:27
vi__japh, nothing.13:27
Hurrianjaph, lol13:27
Hurrianall the keyboard droids suck13:28
japhyou know what $vendors seem to focus on is new shiny wallpapers13:28
japhI don't want wallpapers.13:28
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vi__My eyes were opened to android when I asked My friend tp play a video on a uSD card from my video camera.13:28
japhI want my terminal and a keyboard13:28
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vi__First he had to reboot the device to put the uSD in the phone.13:29
Hurrianvi__, yep, vold is fucked up13:29
japhit's a bit like for every new ubuntu release. The number one most important change is new theme, new font or new wallpapers13:29
vi__Then spent the next 20 minutes trying to find a 'mediaplayer' that would work.13:29
vi__Pro this, lite that; they were all shit and had adverts on them.13:30
japhoh man I almost started crying yesterday when I found someone had been kind enough to build mplayer for n95013:30
japhI was about to give up13:30
vi__What a squalid arse train.13:30
Hurrianthe android media scanner is the only indexer more broken than tracker on the N90013:30
vi__Why does everyone rag on tracker?13:30
vi__It works fine!13:31
japhis it that damn thing that's like locate?13:31
vi__japh: tracker indexes all the media on the N900.13:31
Hurrianvi__, it simply needs to be able to incrementally update indexes13:31
Hurrian100% CPU for a few minutes is not acceptable13:32
vi__Hurrian: It does.13:32
japhhmm. right.13:32
japhnot sure why I'd ever need that13:32
zeqfreemangordon: finally got my scratchbox setup and building fennec13:32
* japh go checks for the power off switch13:32
zeqmuch quicker :)13:33
vi__tracker starts to suck when people put it into low memory mode and renice it to 2013:33
japhbut where does its indexing come into use? when you use that default crappy filemanager?13:34
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Hurrianvi__, yup, it uses an absurd amount of CPU in lowmem and highmem, so I said fuck it, and let it run in highmem instead of waiting hours in lowmem13:34
vi__japh: It is used for the media player and search features.13:35
zeqit should be ionice'd not renice'd13:35
zeq(re. tracker)13:35
japhthe media player isn't particulary userfriendly and there's lots of that it's having problems with playing13:36
Hurrianjaph, meh, the lack of gapless is the only showstopper for me13:37
japhmaybe that's because I'm certainly one of the few people who haven't overclocked :p13:37
japhbut mplayer works really nicely13:37
Hurrianinstall OMP, it definitely works quire nicely for music playback13:37
vi__japh: It sounds to me like smartphones are not for you.  I have a dusty 486DX here with a terminal emulator.13:37
vi__If you want it.13:37
japhnot sure where did came from13:37
vi__japh: wait I thought we were talking about the n950?13:37
japhvi__, I'm still using the n900 at work, and if there's no way to get the fm transmitter going in the n950 I'll continue doing so13:38
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LantiziaLo anyone familiar with the background image sets?13:39
LantiziaI can see each image set in MyDocs/.images has a .desktop file - so I'm thinking without this .desktop file - the image set won't show up in the list of those available13:40
japhI've found that buggy as hell13:40
LantiziaThe only exceptions are digital_nature5_0*.jpg (4 files) which are used by a theme ... and nseries_0*.jpg (also 4 files) for another theme13:41
japh is what I do13:41
japhas you might notice I'm not an sh guy13:41
Lantiziabut I've noticed there are 3 unaccounted for files in .images that come on the eMMC ... 40_stripes1.jpg  40_stripes2.jpg  and  40_stripes3.jpg  (only 3 files)13:41
Lantizialike it's an unfinished image set13:42
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zeqfreemangordon: I need to bump the kernel-headers in the toolchains13:42
japhwant wallpapers?13:42
zeqfreemangordon: what kernel-header pkg fixed the procinfo.h dependency with mozilla?  I rootstrapped a new target the other day and obviously ended up with the wrong headers...13:44
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Lantizia40_stripes4.jpg is essentially missing - as is it's .desktop file13:46
Lantiziaon all N900's13:47
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kaaweeHello! Is it possible to get a framebuffer console using "kernel-power" on the N900?14:00
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freemangordonzeq: kernel-cssu-headers14:02
zeqI seem to have broken python :/14:02
freemangordonbut lenux-kernel-headers from SDK repo should do the job too14:03
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zeqI probably forgot to use fakeroot when installing python2.514:05
zeqseems to have fixed it14:06
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vi__kaawee: Yes it is!14:07
vi__Modprobe fb-con!14:07
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zeqfreemangordon: wtf? it's still dying on procinfo.h14:15
zeqfreemangordon: what's your linux/version.h version?14:18
LantiziaWould there be any issues with packaging the image sets that come on the eMMC as seperate debian packages?14:18
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freemangordonzeq: #define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 13263614:22
zeq#define LINUX_VERSION_CODE 13263014:23
zeqyou had the same problem before, when I had 13263614:23
freemangordonyeah, yhe same problem i had, just install kernel-cssu-headers14:24
zeqit's worked this time14:25
zeqprobably forgot fakeroot again :S14:25
zeqI'll remember eventually14:26
zeqall problems hopefully now fixed14:26
zeqdid you try a build with egl-render?14:27
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freemangordonstill trying, need to overcome some gcc incompatibilities14:28
zeqwhich gcc are you using?14:29
zeqyou could try one of the ones I've packaged14:30
freemangordon(i.e. i keep the focus in fennec :) )14:30
zeqI'm surprised I didn't get any feedback given people have been downloading14:32
zeq4.7 seems the most popular14:33
zeqeater libc # grep linaro-4.7 /var/log/apache2/access_log| wc -l14:34
zeqeater libc # grep linaro-4.6 /var/log/apache2/access_log| wc -l14:34
zeqeater libc # grep gcc-4.6 /var/log/apache2/access_log| wc -l14:34
zeqeater libc #14:34
zeqactually, there's some dupes14:36
zeqlets try again...14:36
zeqeater libc # grep linaro-4.7 /var/log/apache2/access_log| awk -F" " '{ print $1 " " $7 }' | sort | uniq | wc -l14:38
zeqeater libc # grep linaro-4.6 /var/log/apache2/access_log| awk -F" " '{ print $1 " " $7 }' | sort | uniq | wc -l14:38
zeqeater libc # grep gcc-4.6 /var/log/apache2/access_log| awk -F" " '{ print $1 " " $7 }' | sort | uniq | wc -l14:38
zeqstill quite a few14:39
zeqso, who out there has tried it?14:40
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freemangordonfennec with egl built, lets try it15:03
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merlin1991is the tmo trolling/flaming ever going to stop?15:13
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StyXmanmerlin1991: it's the internet; ergo, no15:14
freemangordonzeq: egl don't help, seems after all Qt is the only way15:14
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merlin1991StyXman: true, but tom used to be at least semi productive :/15:15
infobotmerlin1991 meant: StyXman: true, but tmo used to be at least semi productive :/15:15
zeqI seem to have discovered why the headers keep getting wrong version.  As suspected, it's the version in the toolchain15:15
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ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: it's not about flame and trolling, there is point that was never answered or discussed. i know few people there actually take it in more personal places, but after all there were few question asked and only few got answer15:28
merlin1991ZogG_laptop: it reached a point where it is15:29
merlin1991about 80% of each thread in question is down to non constructive flame/trolling15:29
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ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: yeah most people go personal, but it's sad but most council go this way too, that's why no point rechead and the meeting made it worse. i hope you saw how they called the topic and what was discussed? if no it was few lines how leaders always hated and that Arie is in ignore list. and not why it happened and how to prevent and what lesson was learned15:33
merlin1991could you link me the log?15:33
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: as i said before, you let it go once, it starts to be normal, that's why the second time it was proven that they acted not ethic15:33
merlin1991the really odd thing is that people keep claiming that there are *some* undeserving winners, and name a few *better* candidates, but nobody seems to like to pin point who who shouldn't have gotten a device (besides council)15:38
SpeedEvilI think giving one to Elop was totally misguided.15:39
SpeedEvilEven when it came with illustrated guides as to where to put it.15:39
qwazixwhy not he might just learn there was something called MeeGo around in nokia15:40
qwazixWorst thing could happen is he might like it15:40
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: i don't care about anyone except council, as i'm logical and know that here i can't say anything, even i do have few names. it just wouldn't be fair from me to do it. as it's not about who deserve and who doesn't15:41
ZogG_laptopon other hand if council made this they may gave few friends, but again — less interested in this, more interested in not ethic self nomination and than ignoring it15:41
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ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: just to get clear, there were few posts like — . mostly polite, all info gathered and just to point out something, and most didn't get response, or the same answer all over again while selecting only parts to answer15:44
merlin1991yeah I've read that post, it seemed to be the exception to the rule15:46
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: it's just sums of posts and points before btw15:49
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: you just didn't see them as council mostly answered other posts =)15:50
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer; nope not yet16:10
ShadowJKhaven't even checked tracking16:10
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vi__ZogG_laptop: Funny thing is I have not seen you around TMO, IRC or mailing list.  Ever.  Have you been playing the long troll all along?16:22
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RiDEstel_ I gave SecuROM the middle finger, cracked launcher + real serial. Apparently that worked on MP just fine16:33
sEKIHey Estel, how you doing?16:35
sEKIjust trying xchat on my n90016:40
sEKIanyone's using it too?16:40
infobotrumour has it, xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at or
vi__DocScrutinizer51: ping16:41
vi__geeze there is like 5 docs16:41
sEKImust admit it's rather crap with default settings :D16:42
vi__sEKI: you are enjoying xchat?16:42
sEKIas above ;)16:42
vi__sEKI: Yes it is.  If DocScrutinizer51 turns up at any point he will point you towards his 'config'.16:42
vi__sEKI: It is the de-facto way to use xchat on the n900.16:43
vi__(I prefer irssi)16:43
sEKII'd love to see his config...16:44
Lava_Crofti still have a n900 with a broken camera module16:44
sEKII'll be dead honest, can't see a thing and my eyes hurt...16:44
Lava_Croftthankgod i found a Turk who can fix it forme16:44
Lava_CroftA Turk and his Dremel16:45
sEKII though they only do kebabs ;)16:45
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sEKIwill anyone believe if I say I've never used IRC?!16:48
Lava_Croftbut arent you on irc right now16:49
Lava_Croftbasically invalidating your claim!16:49
sEKI... until today :D was that not obvious? :P16:50
Lava_Croftjust teasing you!16:51
sEKIyeah, don't seem to be going much around here is it?16:52
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Lava_Croftthat depends16:54
Lava_Croftmostly its not that much on-topic here16:54
Lava_Croftbut irc is very much talking with delay16:54
Lava_Croftsay something now and have someone else react in 4 hours16:54
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Lava_Croftbesides, quality beats quantity!16:55
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DocScrutinizer05vi__: the 51 isb't all that bad, only I *forgot my N900 @ home* today :-S17:06
sEKIhey Doc can you share your config for xchat?17:06
infoboti heard jrtools is
DocScrutinizer05one dir up, then ->xchat17:06
DocScrutinizer05copy to your ~/.xchat2/17:07
vi__sEKI: there ya go.17:07
vi__DocScrutinizer05: cheers,17:07
Lava_Croftxchat, for when just text to display text is not enough17:08
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Lava_Croftwhy is it M$17:09
Lava_Croftbecause its a company that wants to make a profit?17:09
Lava_Croftyou do know that you might as well type OMG ROFL I PLAY COD OMG LOL17:09
Lava_Croftand it would look just as intelligent17:09
DocScrutinizer05do you know how much I care?17:09
Lava_Croftenough to react17:10
DocScrutinizer05google for "M$"17:10
DocScrutinizer05you'll find it's a meme or whatever17:10
DocScrutinizer05anyway well established17:10
Lava_Crofthardly an argument that its well established or that its a meme17:11
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Lava_Croftbut good enough for me to let you hide behind it:)17:11
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DocScrutinizer05everybody knows M$, while with ms at the latest you will encounter shrugs17:11
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Lava_Croftyes MS is evil, not Nokia17:11
Lava_Croftnokia doesnt like profit:)17:12
DocScrutinizer05again, I don't give a shit17:12
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Lava_Croftenough to still be talking about it17:12
Lava_Croftbut ill help you out, ill go do something else:)17:12
DocScrutinizer05yeah, while I should ignore you17:12
DocScrutinizer05and continue my daywork17:12
Lava_Croftlets both stop and save the channel!17:12
DocScrutinizer05as you fool don't pay me for chatting with you17:12
Lava_Crofti already finished todays work17:12
Lava_Croft5am til 3pm :<17:12
Lava_Croftgood luck with your work!17:13
qwazix\QUIT going home, see you later17:17
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ShadowJKmegaseconds or megabucks17:25
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Lava_Croftthe council meeting report on my google reader states that some people on TMO are crazy :<17:43
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ZogG_laptopvi__: the funny thing i'm on #harmattan for past year and you can track me on TMO, i'm not the great contributor but i helped here and there and also translated for dev friends and tested and bug reported. and on #maemo i was active about 2 years ago till my n900 died, and few people actually know me. and even after the fight i still stood on my promise and added what i promised for non official council member request for some howto18:01
ZogG_laptopvi__: but still i don't care about me as in CA i don't deserve a device, i won one on other program and i think it's not like i deserve their, just there were not a lot people there and i was enuf comparing to some of others there18:03
ZogG_laptopvi__: but if you want to take it personal i wouldn't defence or attack back, as it's kinda stupid as i might say u in face that i doubt you deserve device more than others, but i don't judge or care of it, as i think it's okay with council if they not perfectly objective as they can't follow everyone and they still human. and there would be always different opinions. so it's more personal and is not relevant while what is relevant c18:05
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infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.18:10
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ZogG_lap1opvi__: i was lagged and didn't get response and don't know if you got my 3 msgs18:12
ZogG_lap1opi see in log they are not there18:13
ZogG_lap1opthan i'll repeat18:13
ZogG_lap1opvi__: the funny thing i'm on #harmattan for past year and you can track me on TMO, i'm not the great contributor but i helped here and there and also translated for dev friends and tested and bug reported. and on #maemo i was active about 2 years ago till my n900 died, and few people actually know me. and even after the fight i still stood on my promise and added what i promised for non official council member request for some howto18:13
ZogG_lap1opvi__: but still i don't care about me as in CA i don't deserve a device, i won one on other program and i think it's not like i deserve their, just there were not a lot people there and i was enuf comparing to some of others there18:13
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ZogG_lap1opvi__: but if you want to take it personal i wouldn't defence or attack back, as it's kinda stupid as i might say u in face that i doubt you deserve device more than others, but i don't judge or care of it, as i think it's okay with council if they not perfectly objective as they can't follow everyone and they still human. and there would be always different opinions. so it's more personal and is not relevant while what is relevant council benefits vs18:13
ZogG_lap1opvi__: and if you want i can get the references from members you know if you want18:15
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sEKIswitched to Joerg's configs... bloody hell what a difference!18:42
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DocScrutinizer51thanks :-D18:44
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sEKIxchat is usable now :D18:44
sEKIwell, time to go home, have some soldering to do, my wifes laptop was on fire yesterday :D18:45
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ZogG_lap1opsEKI: lol18:53
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NIN101coming home, starting my mail client, and the maemo mailing list ist full of nonsense.18:58
zeqfreemangordon: hi18:59
zeqI'd got in a bit of a mess on my N900 with libstdc++ versions and partial qt installs19:00
freemangordonany progress with Qt rotation?19:00
zeqjust tested fennec19:00
zeqit's not rotating at all19:00
freemangordonthat's goo19:00
zeqit is?19:00
zeqI suppose ;)19:00
freemangordonseems it is forced rotation then19:00
freemangordongoing to disable it here and try again19:00
zeqjust turned on forced and it crashed19:01
freemangordonyou have forced rotation enabled?19:01
zeqthen I rotated19:01
zeqit rotated, then crashed19:01
freemangordonzeq: not that way19:01
freemangordonedit /etc/share/hildon-desktop/transitions.ini19:01
freemangordonlook at CSSU wiki for instructions19:02
freemangordondo ^^^ first19:02
freemangordonwhile I am re-building qt version19:02
zeqdoesn't ctrl-fn-r have a similar effect?19:02
freemangordonI think that was disabled, but anyway, this is not the way to go19:03
zeqit definitely did something :P19:04
freemangordoncrashed fennec?19:04
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zeqcan you give me a page reference?19:05
freemangordonin short you should set force_rotation to 1 and reboot19:06
zeqdidn't need to reboot19:09
freemangordonhmm, strange19:09
zeqrotation works but resize only works landscape->portrate19:09
freemangordonor portrait->landscape19:09
freemangordonor not at all19:09
zeqthen the screen widgets stop repostioning/resizing19:09
zeqit's sort of working19:10
freemangordonyes, that is the problem. although side pane are always resized correctly19:10
RaimuBah, blessn900 instareboots my phone these days. No idea if it's a cssu-thumb or what. I hate that proprietary piece of sortware.19:10
zeqnotice some elements are respostioning correctly19:10
freemangordonzeq: yep, kinda19:10
freemangordonRaimu: any oopses?19:11
zeqthe off the left and side panel gets resized correctly19:11
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Raimufreemangordon: Oopses? It just blows up at starting the app, can't get logs I think.19:11
freemangordonit is only the page which got screwed most of the time19:11
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zeqactually I think it is working19:11
freemangordonRaimu: /dev/mtd219:12
zeqoh no, what am I talking about?19:12
freemangordonzeq: from time to time it is19:12
zeqok I think I get it19:12
freemangordonbut usually no, still cannot grok it19:12
zeqhorizontal startup -> portrate: ok19:12
infobotzeq meant: horizontal startup -> portrait: ok19:13
freemangordonzeq: no, it is not ok19:13
zeqportrait -> horizontal: main area not resizing horizontally19:13
freemangordonthe startup page is not shown correectly, it is vut at the bottom19:13
zeqhorizontal -> portrait: shifted onto side panel, but actually ok19:14
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zequrl bar shrinks but doesn't regrow19:15
zeqsame as main page area19:15
freemangordonzeq: it is different almost every time19:15
zeqok, I'll restart and try again, see what happens19:16
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zeqthis time screen elements aren't getting resized *at all*19:17
Raimufreemangordon: got it19:18
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zeqI'm going to look at the code...19:18
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freemangordonRaimu: you don't have enough free RAM man, I was getting those while I was experimenting with compcache. remove it. it is not needed wit cssu-thumb ;)19:21
zeqfreemangordon: did you see these: 17:18 < Raimu> freemangordon: got it19:21
zeqcut and paste error19:22
freemangordonand i looked at oops19:22
zeq    mNeedsResize         = false;19:22
zeq    mNeedsMove           = false;19:22
zeq    mListenForResizes    = false;19:22
vi__Raimu: are you using compcache?19:22
Raimuvi__: Yep, 64mb.19:22
vi__Raimu: Did you copy the settings from the forum?19:22
freemangordonzeq: where is that from19:22
Raimuvi__: Pretty much, yeah.19:23
freemangordonaaah, yes, it is vi__ to blame19:23
* vi__ aww shucks.19:23
RaimuI did alter a bunch of them, though.19:23
vi__Raimu: oh god19:23
freemangordonvi__: here is you answer why it hurts when you pee19:23
RaimuI feel like Bruce Campbell having picked up the Necronomicon without saying the right words.19:23
vi__Raimu, you must remove the line about min_free_kb19:23
zeqfreemangordon: I'm just searching through the code for "resize"19:24
freemangordonRaimu: increase that to at least 8M19:24
vi__Raimu: Gort! Klaatu! Barrada! Nikto!19:24
Raimuvi__: Klaatu! Barata! *ahemhem*19:24
* Raimu leers19:24
vi__freemangordon: Just leave it at default and it is fine.19:24
vi__Raimu: Gort! Klaatu! Baracard... necktie...?19:24
vi__Default is 204819:25
vi__Raimu: Do not change the min_free_kb value when you start compcache.19:25
vi__In fact delete it from whatever you are using to set your VM settings.19:25
RaimuYeah, got that. I think I was never dumb enough to make it 32, but I think I did halven it or something.19:25
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vi__...It didnt seem dumb at the time -_-19:26
RaimuYeah, not blaming you.19:26
RaimuI'm to blame for whatever I do to muck up my phone.19:26
RaimuJust if things get fixed in the process, better.19:26
freemangordonzeq: maybe some traces of these will help a lot19:26
freemangordonunfortunately at this point compcache brings only problems19:27
RaimuOh, yeah, I wanted to ask about one of the kernel's VM features.19:27
RaimuWhat use is the "overcommit_memory" feature in the kernel? It sounds like a recipe for disaster, donnit?19:27
vi__freemangordon: WFM.  Needs a little refresh from time to time.19:27
freemangordonvi__: tried thumb?19:28
vi__freemangordon: admitedly no.19:28
vi__I was waiting for the stunt lemmings to find the proiblems first.19:28
Raimufreemangordon: Hey, is there a reason the compcache baked into KP doesn't give out the stats when rzc asks for them?19:28
vi__Raimu: stats is turned off.19:28
freemangordonyep, stats are disabled (by me :P )19:28
RaimuOh, why?19:28
freemangordonperformance reasons19:29
freemangordonthere are several spinlocks there19:29
freemangordonwhich are used ONLY for stats19:29
RaimuAnd why was that backing swap thing incompatible with the kernel-as-we-have-it?19:29
freemangordonvi__: you'd better try thumb, no problems so far19:30
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RaimuAh, I see.19:30
vi__freemangordon: Is that a threat!19:30
freemangordonRaimu: it is, just that performance is horrible19:30
vi__freemangordon: I fully intend to in the next couple of days, I am in the middle of moving houe right now.19:30
freemangordonvi__: well, I can say what I want :P:P:P19:30
freemangordonaah, not the best time19:31
vi__I shall afford you that right!19:31
Raimufreemangordon: The backing swap is sucky in performance?19:31
freemangordonmore than sucky19:31
freemangordonas long as BS is hit, you have to power down19:31
freemangordonwell, not THAt bad, but still19:32
RaimuSo, basically when the BS is hit, BS hits the fan.19:32
vi__freemangordon: is this due to swap thrashing?19:32
vi__Raimu: !!!19:32
freemangordonRaimu: exactly :)19:32
vi__How do I enable backing swap?19:33
freemangordonvi__: it writes one page a time19:33
freemangordonand does that when the system is short in memory19:33
RaimuWasn't it supposed to, for example, put things in the backing swap when things aren't used often or when they aren't compressed well enough?19:34
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RaimuThat's what I read in the zram docs.19:34
RaimuI guess if it's implemented all the way to hell, it's not that nice.19:34
zeqI remember reading lkml a while back when there was a discussion about writing out multiple pages to eMMC19:34
zeqI don't know if a patch ever saw the light of day19:35
zeqit would *really* help out swap performance19:35
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zeqfreemangordon: there seems to be serveral functions in nsWindow.cpp relating to resizing19:36
SpeedEvilThe righ way is a circular buffer swap, with defragmentation19:36
SpeedEvilpretty much19:36
zeqwe may just need to set a flag19:36
SpeedEvilso it's _always_ written in-order.19:36
SpeedEvilAnd defragments as it goes.19:37
zeqno need to listen for rotation events?19:37
freemangordonzeq: it is still building here so there is not much i can do right now but to look at the code19:37
zeqwhat have you changed?19:37
freemangordonzeq: gtk2->qt ;)19:37
zeqah ok19:37
freemangordonzeq: it listens for rotation events19:37
freemangordon#if (MOZ_PLATFORM_MAEMO == 5)19:38
freemangordon        QObject::connect(QApplication::desktop(), SIGNAL(resized(int)),19:38
freemangordon                         mWidget, SLOT(orientationChanged()));19:38
zeqI saw your code, but I wonder if it's needed at all.  Maybe a flag will make it automatic19:39
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zeqfreemangordon: do you want to join me on #mobile @irc.mozilla.org19:45
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zeqI'm going to ask romaxa for advise19:46
freemangordonzeq: sure19:46
zeqI'll wait for you to join19:47
freemangordonwhat is the exact channel?19:47
zeqon the server19:47
freemangordonaah. need to setup that19:48
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freemangordonzeq: damn, even if with forced rotation disabled, fennec still tries to raotate when in task navigator19:59
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zeq1freemangordon: it doesn't really matter if we get it working.20:00
freemangordonzeq1: it matters for me :)20:01
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zeqif the window resizes correctly we want to rotate anyway20:01
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freemangordonwhy stuped facebook opens the mobile version? we have to do something for the user agent20:02
zeqfreemangordon: try about:config20:05
zeqshould be able to set the user agent there I think20:05
freemangordonaaah, yes, it was about: config , stupid me20:08
Wntphony is a great extension to switch between user agents20:09
infobotmethinks zogg is awesome20:09
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ZogG_lap1opi forgot about it20:09
freemangordonWnt: for firefox?20:09
Wntfreemangordon: yes20:09
freemangordonhmm, going to install it20:10
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zeq1romaxa has arrived20:12
zeq1freemangordon: ping20:12
hiemanshuzeq1: stop stalking people :P20:14
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freemangordonzeq1: I think that should be enough20:21
zeq1good hints20:22
freemangordonWnt: thanks for the tip, now FB opens its desktop version20:22
Lava_Croftfennec was slow even on n9 :<20:22
Wntfreemangordon: great, no problem20:22
Lava_Croftvery sadly20:22
freemangordonzeq1: yep, I think we have everything answered20:23
freemangordonwe can ping him again when we have more questions20:23
freemangordonLava_Croft: believe me or not, but it is absolutely usefull. and I am talking about desktop FB. It is only zoom that is slow20:24
Lava_Croftoh, i wasnt in any way dissing its usefulness20:25
Lava_Croftits just too bad that its so slow20:25
Lava_Crofti completely get where they are trying to get to20:25
freemangordonby usefull i menat fast enough to use it20:25
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Lava_Croftfor the stuff i mostly use during the day, opera is the fastest20:26
Lava_Croftbut more complex stuff works better in ff20:26
zeq1Lava_Croft: you might be surprised how fast fennec will be20:26
Lava_Croftzeq1: i already notice how its becoming faster and faster20:26
Lava_Croftthe early stuff from over a year ago was horrible20:26
Lava_Croftif not longer ago20:26
zeq1I mean our port20:26
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Lava_Croftill let myself by awesomely surprised then!20:27
* zeq1 is serving dinner20:27
ThreeMSc0rpius ?20:27
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DocScrutinizer51Raimu: (instareboot) sure thing, camaera kernel modules20:37
Estel_vi__, ping20:37
Estel_DocScrutinizer, you know what? chem|st closed topic You've mentioned, as per Your suggestion, then took few outcry posts, and created new topic for it20:38
Estel_which is 1:1 the same as old one20:38
Estel_I'm confused on this tactic :DF20:38
Estel_but, but, there are real issues. What a morons are Farnel electronic!20:39
Estel_Thyey've charged 17 euro for shipping, and don't even have tracking ID!20:39
Estel_they've sent 200 gram device via normal LETTER and reject to handle ID, even though it's already post 2 weeks since sending20:39
Estel_and I mean raspberry Pi of course20:40
Estel_those idiots are explaining, that they have very high demand for Pi, so they weren't able to log Id of packages sent LOL20:40
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freemangordonzeq1: Did I tell you I am stupid? I closed irc window, now I don't have the function names anymore :(20:41
freemangordonand #mobile don't have logs20:41
freemangordondo you keep those?20:41
* DocScrutinizer51 snapshots a corn circle in stone20:42
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freemangordonoh, fortunately mirc keeps channel logs, pfew20:45
zeq1I still have it open anyway20:48
zeq1freemangordon: I'm off to visit my gran in hospital.  I'll be back in a couple of hours.20:50
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Estel_freemangordon, is your work on improving fennec to be check anywhere, or not yet?21:15
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freemangordonEstel_: it is not my work ;). Seen as in? video or .deb? I can upload a .deb, but you MUST have cssu-thumb. do you?21:17
Estel_yes, but not in this device :( but, but, is it going to be put into repos, later? Or is it, rather "private" modification? I suspect the former :)21:17
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freemangordonEstel_: I meant that fennec n900 adaptation is not my work only, it is a work split between me and zeq. So, I don't know about zeq, but I don't plan to put fennec on any other place but thumb repo. I doubt that gcc 4.2.1 will be able to compile neon intrinstincs needed for performance it achieves being thumb/neon compiled21:27
Estel_sounds fair enough, I don't mind *any* new work being thumb only. After all, we got thumb working on purpose21:28
Estel_I'm planning to migrate to thumb in my main device too, ASAP21:28
freemangordongood for you, you will feel the difference ;). Do a backup of course, just in case21:28
freemangordonand have in mind that all SW that depends on KP have to be uninstalled21:29
freemangordonok, most of it, like KPS and cleven21:29
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freemangordonEstel_: on the side not I think you are using FUD pretty often, I am not native English speaker, but AIUI it is offensive beyond what you want your statement to be. While I am Slav (just as I suspect you are) and I understand what you're saying, I don't think that holds true for the native Engish speakers and non-slavonic population.21:38
qwazix_hi, trying to build glib from cordia project on harmattan and it complains about gtk-docs, gtk-docs from complains about gtk-docs utils. Is there a way to build glib without docs? I tried --disable-gtk-docs but it doesn't work21:38
freemangordonEstel_: In short: you'd better watch your tone on TMO ;)21:38
freemangordonEstel_: not that I have any problem with what you are saying, just a friendly piece of advice :P21:40
Estel_freemangordon, I understand. If You're reffering to my post aimed @ SD69, i Think it was like it was meant to be, as I felt accussed a little :)21:42
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Estel_+, ust few hours ago, i told him that it isn't true, and provided links. I don't suspect abd will, just being careless on already heated thing21:43
Estel_anyway, i'm done with all post-CA outcry threrads for good21:43
Estel_definitely, much more productive things to do21:43
Estel_I don't care if they're going to ounslaughter themselves. I think you're right, that this thing started to get in my nerves too much21:44
Estel_and You're right, my bad to heat amosphere even more. Eh.21:44
freemangordonyes, that post, but not only. I don't know about you, but I have a lot of contacts with western people and I can assure you, they just don grok our south way of thinking/expressing things.21:44
Estel_ah, true21:45
Estel_yes, you're right, and You're definitely right about fact, that they take it 2x more heavily, than I would take it or mean, even when angered :)21:45
Estel_good catch.21:45
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freemangordonthe same way as we don;t grock whay the hell it takes 5 sentences to say something that can be said with 5 words ;)21:46
Estel_yea :) Well... Thanks for advice, (hoever it sounds), as I msut say that it was one with most merit in it, and I got many "friendly advices" lately :D21:47
Estel_BTw, I suspect, that Scots are either more like us, or vi_ is Slav in disguise :P21:48
ZogG_lap1opfacts are facts in any language21:48
ZogG_lap1opi'm not native too21:48
Estel_ZogG, like fact, that You've applied for Ca Yourself, and started to protest only, when You've lost? :D21:49
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ZogG_lap1opif you accuse or go personal it doesn't matter if you do it too much or less, it's the point of you going personal21:49
Estel_freemangordon, i'm doing better, yep? I've written two-liner.21:49
freemangordonZogG_lap1op: it is not about the language itself, but the wording21:49
ZogG_lap1opEstel_: nope, i lost way before21:49
freemangordonEstel_: sure thing21:49
Estel_I'm starting to get afraid of myself. soon, I'm going to write FU in 3 sentences :(21:50
ZogG_lap1opyou see how it's easy to make a laugth and like you are big guy that i just bug, so you want friends protection as you insecure and you joke with him in the middle21:50
ZogG_lap1opnice touch =)21:50
Estel_ZogG, haven't You though about going for vacation? i've heard, that weather is nice where You live.21:50
freemangordonZogG_lap1op: I don;t know what nationality you are, but there is deffinitely a difference on how western/eastern people understand one and the same sentence21:50
Estel_it's holiday seasons, You know21:51
Estel_(3th sentence) You know that sitting before monitor and writing 3x A4 posts on TMO is unhealthy? Mind taking a short walk?21:51
ZogG_lap1opi actully leaved in few countries and had experience with people from different nations21:51
ZogG_lap1opwait on the phone with GF21:51
qwazix_freemangordon: True, when I'm abroad with friends they keep asking us why are we arguing while we're just having a conversation21:52
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* freemangordon is going off just before GF gets mad, bbl21:52
Estel_(slav mode on) ZogG, i jsut don't give a F***. i'm done with threads full of 4-5 people, that doesn't accept answrs and facts21:52
Estel_see ya, freemangordon21:52
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Estel_fun fact - I moved my ass, and calculated. turned out, that 70% of people protesting for CA have beeb candidates themselves. Whi9ch, of course, isn't any conflict of interest, at all ;()21:53
Estel_especially, e-yes, who praised Community and Council in his submissions, yet, after losing, he posted one-liner about how he hate Council and Community. Hah!21:54
SiceloCA ftw \m/21:54
Estel_qwazix_, yea, it's common21:54
ZogG_lap1opшэь ифсл21:55
ZogG_lap1opi'm back21:55
Estel_qwazix_, it's just difference of temper21:55
Estel_as You can see, we all missed, and waited.21:56
Estel_holding our breath.21:56
Estel_if You haven't decide to get a short summer walk. you know, we wouldn't be able to sleep.21:57
Estel_ok, enough of laughing around.21:57
Estel_time for work!21:57
ZogG_lap1opi'm kinda slovacian related.i;m slavic21:57
ZogG_lap1opEstel_: you talk to much and again insult me21:58
DocScrutinizer05dang commies21:58
SiceloEstel_: what is the latest RE: what qgil asked for a while back .. a direction/vision for us ?21:58
Estel_Sicelo, :D21:58
Estel_yea, he should be carefull with what he wishes for21:58
ZogG_lap1opeven if it's you language, i think you know it insult people as you stated above21:58
Sicelohmm, ok21:58
Estel_ZogG, i'm not insulting You. I just asked if You don't want to enjoy summer walk.21:58
Estel_I'mcarrying about Your health, and You're aggressive? :(21:59
ZogG_lap1opi'll just post the log21:59
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Estel_no, please. We know how to use scrollback, for 4 lines above.21:59
DocScrutinizer05who wants +q ?21:59
Estel_or at least, do it in zerobin and post link21:59
ZogG_lap1opi mean at that thread21:59
Estel_DocScrutinizer, me, I should work, instead of discussing about CA :(21:59
Estel_thanks in advance22:00
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ZogG_lap1opi think it's not the first time here you have problems with that22:00
DocScrutinizer05play nice, kids!22:00
ZogG_lap1opDocScrutinizer05: btw i think you kicked me once for a joke =)22:00
ZogG_lap1opanyway gonna post the log22:00
Estel_yea, it's not the first time I waste my time discutting with ZogG, instead of working :D22:00
Estel_*moment of movie-like tension...*22:01
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* Estel_ is opening popcorn22:01
* Estel_ think that this movie is boring, nothing happen for 2 minutes already22:02
DocScrutinizer05you got no idea *how* boring, for miost of chan members, since at least 10 min22:03
* Sicelo is still trying to parse your reply Estel_ :/22:03
Estel_DocScrutinizer, belive me, I have idea... i'm just trying to be kind, you know22:03
Estel_Sicelo, it's possible that i've missunderstood You22:04
Estel_care to rephrase question about qgil?>22:04
Estel_vi__, ping22:04
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qwazix_M4rtinK: hi, I've got a question if you don't mind...23:41
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M4rtinKqwazix_: no problem, go ahead :)23:42
qwazix_I'm trying to build glib from cordia project for harmattan for some hours now, but it complains that i don't have gtk-docs installed23:45
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ZogG_lap1opM4rtinK: ping23:46
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ZogG_lap1ophmm is he cordia dev?23:46
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ZogG_lap1opqwazix_: ping23:46
qwazix_crap, xchat crashed on me23:47
ZogG_lap1opis M4rtinK or you cordia devs?23:47
qwazix_anyway, I tried --disable-gtk-doc23:47
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M4rtinKI think I just disabled it23:47
qwazix_but it doesn't seem to do anything23:47
qwazix_I also tried to build gtk-doc but I entered dependency hell23:47
M4rtinKIIRC, it was dragging in LaTeX as a dependency :)23:47
qwazix_not me for sure, but I know M4rtinK compiled gtk for harmattan23:48
M4rtinKI actually ended just sublitting the Fremantle GTK package23:48
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qwazix_which brings me to the question, your gtk has MAEMO_CHANGES, would it work if I build hildon desktop against it?23:49
M4rtinKI tried upt to date version first (blew up on Gobject Introspection)23:49
M4rtinKthen tried a less recent one23:49
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M4rtinKand ended with the Fremantle one23:49
M4rtinKI though about that too23:49
M4rtinKI actually tried to build it23:50
ZogG_lap1opso cordia is not related to none of you?23:50
M4rtinKbut Hildon depends on clutter23:50
M4rtinKand Clutter needs some OpenGL stuff23:50
M4rtinKand I never got it to compile23:50
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M4rtinKco If you get clutter23:50
freemangordonZogG_lap1op: what's wrong with you men? You want a flamewar or what? And the most important question: WHY?23:51
M4rtinKyou might succeed with Hildon23:51
qwazix_oh, I've got a hard time ahead. Do you remember how you disabled gtk-doc23:51
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M4rtinKI remember disabling tests by deleting their folder in the makefile somewhere23:51
M4rtinKmight be the same for docs23:52
M4rtinKI think I also hit the same issue, eq. options not taking effect23:52
qwazix_I tried that, also tried deleting the check whether installed23:52
ZogG_lap1opfreemangordon: actually i didnt want, but after no one cared and closed the eyes i wanted to go to end. i say what i think. it wasn't right but than it got worse23:52
qwazix_but I get errors further down the process...23:53
Venemo_N9what's wrong now?23:53
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qwazix_ok I'll try to purge the makefile from every reference to docs and see what happens23:53
ZogG_lap1opVenemo_N9: not much read last posts.23:53
Venemo_N9ZogG_lap1op, where?23:54
ZogG_lap1opVenemo_N9: on TMO23:54
Venemo_N9omg, still talking about the council thing?23:54
M4rtinKqwazix_: BTW, the repositories from my fight with GTK are still online:
M4rtinKhope it helps :)23:57
M4rtinKand good luck ! :)23:57
ZogG_lap1opVenemo_N9: yeah, it was brought up and i can't get passed and than everyone got seek in and than there was something between council that resolved one person somehow responsible for mess23:57
Venemo_N9well, I threw in my opinion already.23:57
M4rtinKZogG_lap1op: what about that translation ? :)23:58
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ZogG_lap1opM4rtinK: oh you can see me now =) i'll do it this week, i promise, but ping me on #harmattan =) btw is my jabber if you want to find me anytime =)23:59
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