IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-07-31

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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, how goes your impedance/ir meter?00:07
SpeedEvilShadowJK: I ended up working on flooring in the spare room. Just got a sketch done. Hopefully tomorrow.00:08
ShadowJKa sketch?00:09
SpeedEvilOutline of code, on a bit of A400:10
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, MohammadAG is still having problems opening sites00:15
MohammadAGand my buffer goes back to ask MohammadAG00:15
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: solved, was sth about a patch to modest in cssu that turned out to be never applied00:21
DocScrutinizerso the whole story was a non-issue00:21
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so let me open DHL for you once more :-D00:21
DocScrutinizer12  Clearance delay   TEL AVIV - ISRAEL   21:4600:22
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, TLV, delayed there00:24
MohammadAGprobably cause it's a saturday00:25
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mase76MohammadAG:Hi! Did you notice the bug in phone-control?00:36
MohammadAGI was in TLV today00:38
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: do you have a fitting sound for the don't panic vid? :D00:40
MohammadAGmase76, "the" bug?00:40
MohammadAGwhat bug00:40
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mase76I posted last week. The ifconfig part is wrong. And unloading and loading the wifi driver causes a mac change.00:41
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: nope00:41
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merlin1991MohammadAG: read #maemo-ssu00:43
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MohammadAGmerlin1991, <MohammadAG> DocScrutinizer, MohammadAG is still having problems opening sites00:47
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merlin1991opening sites00:57
merlin1991what does that have todo with channels?00:58
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DocScrutinizermerlin1991: I gather he meant he's not able to open chanlog01:03
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: MohammadAG uses a bouncer, and afaik a history buffer that's defeating the purpose of keeping backscroll in that bouncer and get it via playback01:05
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DocScrutinizerthat's so short so it's defeating...01:05
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: wtf is wrong with your internet?01:36
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* SpeedEvil manages to confuse himself majorly.01:43
SpeedEvilGetting accurate measurements of current consumption is hard when you've got the USB lead plugged in.01:43
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jieroHi,  there, I found this game was written purely in Lua. But my limited knowledge cannot allow me to run it on N900. Anybody can test it out?01:49
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer ShadowJK - 0th cut -
SpeedEvilI get 450mR on a old cell, and 220 on one I got on ebay a couple of days ago. Both at 3.7V02:46
SpeedEvilCharge state is probably important02:46
SpeedEvilv1.1 uploaded - minor bug.02:47
ShadowJKYeah elaborate a bit on that02:48
SpeedEvilThe current measurement updates every 5.12s. You can't change that.02:48
SpeedEvilSo polling more often than 2* that risks non-isolated measurements02:49
ShadowJKOne of the biggest annoyances I encountered, was that voltage is sampled by bq every second (?), while current is sampled every 5s, and often times I'd see high current use for a second or two, during that 5s period, so unless I oversample voltage to not miss anything, it becomes a bit unreliable to load variations02:49
SpeedEvilvoltage every 2.5s02:50
SpeedEvilI think02:50
SpeedEvilAnd yes02:50
SpeedEvilThis assumes idle, with screen off for best use02:50
ShadowJK(overpoll and discard non-stable readings)02:50
* SpeedEvil checks if it actually matters02:50
ShadowJKI only tried to do this on paper, and then I did it with a .8A drain and compared to .8A charge :)02:51
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ShadowJKwhen I did it on "paper" it was more of analyzing large amounts of logs :/02:54
ShadowJKbut this is cool02:54
SpeedEvilSeemingly 10% out of the idle figure when on and doing stuff02:54
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SpeedEvilfor the average02:54
SpeedEvilHmm - my newest battery looks like 220mR02:55
ShadowJKwhy am I getting negative mR02:55
SpeedEvilIt's meant to do that!02:55
SpeedEvilIt means it's discharging02:55
SpeedEvil(or I can't be bothered to read the sign bit)02:55
ShadowJK3652mV starting, 271, 259, 299, 385, 209 301, 233, 234, 359, 306: 29602:56
ShadowJK(10% SOC)02:57
SpeedEvilFairly old?02:57
ShadowJK155 cycles02:57
ShadowJKlet me find my "fairly old" battery..02:58
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SpeedEvilInteresting - it gives fairly consistent results when plugged in03:01
SpeedEvil(not if charged of course)03:01
ShadowJKplugging it in prevents cpu from sleep03:02
SpeedEvilBut it can still measure delta-I03:02
ShadowJKit's a bit more complicated, because there's the max current limit from powersupply, and the phantom resistance between bq24150 and rest of system03:04
SpeedEvilI know03:04
SpeedEvilIt's in the 'sort of works' category03:04
* ShadowJK can get somewhat accurate estimates of system load while charging by the voltage drop across that phantom resistance03:04
SpeedEvilAs long as it's far from v_taper03:04
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ShadowJK751 for the fairly worn :)03:10
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ShadowJK(I calculated 1000 for that one with 900mA charge/discharge difference03:14
ShadowJK+900 / -900, so 1.8A delta03:15
ShadowJKionic diffusion, and all that voodoo, I guess.03:15
ShadowJKMugen 2.4Ah, among the first produced, ~100 cycles before I stopped using it: 25903:20
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SpeedEvilSeems sane03:23
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SpeedEvilThe newest one I have is from ebay - but I suspect it's a knock-off. 25003:24
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ShadowJKEastmaze, ~70 cycles: 22003:30
DocScrutinizernow if bme was sane, it probably should adjust shutdown threshold by a function(AI) to account for the voltage drop in battery and parasitic R of circuit03:31
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ShadowJKor adjust battery meter03:31
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SpeedEvilThe one I just got came flat.03:32
SpeedEvilIt may also havebeen in storage ages I guess.03:33
ShadowJKhow flat?03:33
DocScrutinizersend back03:34
ShadowJKtoo flat03:34
SpeedEvilNot actually 0v03:34
SpeedEvilactually - no - I think I measured it03:34
ShadowJK250 seems good though03:34
SpeedEvilit was at 2.8 or so03:34
SpeedEvilBut too low to turn on03:34
DocScrutinizer<3V is a dead nut03:34
ShadowJK2.8 is hard shutdown threshold for gaia, maybe it's second hand :-)03:34
nox-battery off ebay?03:35
SpeedEvilPondering if I can be bothered doing the RMA dance.03:35
SpeedEvilnox-: yes03:35
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nox-fake ebay batteries are not uncommon it seems...03:35
SpeedEvilThe one I have - the label is somewhat distressed03:36
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SpeedEvilI wonder if it's a real label03:36
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ShadowJKSpeedEvil, might've been more sensible to get a battery off of dr_frost's list :)03:36
DocScrutinizerI still haven't disassembled an original BL-5J yet, to see what protection they got for it03:36
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SpeedEvilShadowJK: Well - yes.03:37
SpeedEvilIt was cheap though. :/03:37
SpeedEvilI was wondering on saving the money on the bat, and spending on or similar03:38
DocScrutinizerrecently I learned some batteries just exploit the Vvlow cutout of protection for overcurrent protect as well, relying on internal Z before protection circuit03:38
ShadowJKjapod from DX, unused: 23203:38
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SpeedEvilThis reminds me - I need to find the bq* chips I bought on ebay03:39
SpeedEvilI need to hook some up as solar cell monitors03:40
SpeedEvilto log some data before I put my panels together03:40
SpeedEvilGot 600W of cells to solder up. :)03:41
ShadowJKyou can get bq* on ebay?03:42
SpeedEvilYou can get _everything_ on ebay03:42
SpeedEvilThough my search for image intensified CCDs hasn't fired.03:43
SpeedEvilComplex searches are good.03:45
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ShadowJKmy 3S 800mAh heli batteries are (measured with hobby charger) 228 (oldest, shittiest), 160, 81. That's total, so per-cell is a third of that :-)04:02
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SpeedEvilConsiderably larger li-ion04:07
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infobotDocScrutinizer: aw, gee04:55
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fusihow do i get a terminal in the build env in esbox?05:29
fusiso i can install dev packages into it?05:29
fusican i do that through the maemo5 vm?05:29
fusisorry for the questions05:30
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: bantime again?05:34
DocScrutinizerchem|st: two for one: + un_abill05:35
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DocScrutinizerlol, a coward troll, deleting posts 5 minutes after posting offensive vulgar trolling05:42
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paulyhi anyone want to sell me their n8?05:46
hatake_kakashiwhy don't you source them off ebay?05:47
hatake_kakashiand how is this related to maemo anyway :p N8 = symbian powered device05:47
Tronichatake_kakashi: Because you get N8 back when you send N900 for repairs05:48
Tronic=> many N900 users end up with completely useless Symbian device.05:48
hatake_kakashiTronic, indeed, but here is someone wanting to buy a N8, without any trade back for N900 :)05:49
Tronicpauly: So, have a look at auctions, I've seen a lot of warranty replacement N8 and lately E7 being sold there.05:49
paulyon ebay?05:50
hatake_kakashiebay is just an example, there's plenty of other sources05:50
paulywhere tell me!05:50
* hatake_kakashi isn't going to make an exhausive list of potential sources where one can purchase N8. Learn to use google05:51
TronicThe prices, in Finland, are around 150-170 € for used N900, 250 € for N8 in unopened package & two year warranty, 400 € for E7 unopened package & warranty (and nobody will buy these).05:51
paulydo u think $200 range is good used?  i sold my n900 for 18005:51
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Termanagood morning05:52
paulyhatake_kakashi: i dont know of any other auction site?05:52
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hatake_kakashipauly, you can't google? there's plenty depending on which country you are in or which country you may want to source your N8 from05:53
paulyim talking used not new05:54
paulyebay is only auction site i know05:54
hatake_kakashilocal newspapers may also contain second hand goods05:54
hatake_kakashiI never said I was talking about new. If I were to say new, I would have recommended Nokia site :p05:54
hatake_kakashithere's craiglist iirc that's for stateside05:55
paulycraigslist sucks no one uses nokia devices around here05:55
paulymostly htc and apple05:55
hatake_kakashierr I meant local newspapers may also contain a section for people selling, wanting to buy, etc stuff.05:56
paulya nokia phone lol not popular here05:56
SpeedEvilEbay is it then.05:56
Tronicpauly: Yeah, too bad that you cannot buy N950 and N9 will probably not be available in USA either.05:57
paulyhey Speedevil wheres your n8 :)05:57
hatake_kakashiit maybe rare to find one but its not like as if it doesn't exist05:57
DocScrutinizerpauly: haha, still searching an N8?05:57
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SpeedEvilpauly: I don't have one - or want one.05:58
paulymy bad05:58
hatake_kakashiI can't imagine any maemo fanatics would want a symbian powered device05:59
pauly<DocScrutinizer: i still havent backed up my data from the broken n900 lol05:59
paulyi lost the metal`1z06:01
antman8969pauly, out of curiosity, why would you ever want an n8?06:01
DocScrutinizerTronic: wtf?! N9 not available in USA? citation needed - or stop spreading fud please.06:01
antman8969I don't know what that even means. What's to stop us from buying it from Europe and shipping it to the US?06:02
TermanaMy N950 is sitting at my major city waiting to be processed by customs06:02
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TermanaIt so far, yet so near06:03
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DocScrutinizerTermana: drink a cup of tea with MohammadAG ;-D06:03
ML-37hey docc06:04
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DocScrutinizer(not available) I'd be really surprised if Nokia wouldn't sell the first 9-band phone that really can deal with the 3rd world mess in USA exactly there in USA where the 9band makes most sense, and the warranty situation is better for manufacturers than anywhere in Europe06:06
loft306my n900 has created another casualty ... the speakers in   my pick-up are toast... i switched to a patch cable from using the fm tranmitter as there is something on every frequency now and the fm boosted crashed on my device06:06
DocScrutinizero.O what?06:07
loft306great full range output...06:07
loft306oem speakers being better than they used to be but not good eenough06:08
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* DocScrutinizer scratches head and wonders how to parse a single word of loft306 's story06:08
loft306heh  im getting ahead of self again06:09
loft306imm  tired   been in confrences all day06:10
hatake_kakashiseems like his fm booster is the culprit if I read that right06:10
loft306i was hardwired into the line in06:10
SpeedEvilFM booster boosts the output from maybe 30nW to 50nW06:10
SpeedEvilIt's nowhere near the power to damage anything06:10
hatake_kakashithen rephrase what you said about "fm boosted crashed my device"06:10
loft306as i wasnt able to broadcast with enough power to drown out the fm stations06:11
loft306fm booster didnt craash the device it just crashes on startup06:11
loft306cant use it06:11
loft306i had too many thoughts running together06:12
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TronicDocScrutinizer: and other Finnish media. Yes, it is rumors, but it is based on Nokia websites.06:33
TronicGermany, France, UK and USA are missing but a lot of smaller markets are listed.06:34
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TronicBut then, it has been submitted to the FCC, which would suggest that they plan to release, I suppose.06:35
DocScrutinizerTronic: there's a perfectl explanation for that: the online stores will close or already did. That doesn't mean Nokia won't ship N9 thru other channels06:35
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DocScrutinizerlike Amazon06:36
TronicEither way, it is impossible to tell what the company is doing these days. It seems that different parts of it are doing quite the opposite of each-other.06:36
DocScrutinizertrue that06:36
DocScrutinizerbut the "Will not be available in $random-country" is clearly based on a WTF-moment about the short list of countries for availability check *through Nokia webshop*06:37
maybeArghtronic: that has been true for a few years now06:38
DocScrutinizerno more US webshop -> no N9 available *via webshop*. Simple as that06:38
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TimmyTi've downloaded meego for n900, how to install meego beside maemo?08:20
TronicTimmyT: Do you have a MicroSD card?08:21
TronicThat's the place to install it but be aware that it will run very slowly.08:21
hatake_kakashiit highly depends on which class microSD card you used08:21
Tronic(and look ugly as you get the community UX instead of Nokia Swipe or whatnot)08:22
Tronichatake_kakashi: Doesn't really.08:22
TronicClass 10 isn't really any faster on N900 :(08:22
TimmyTwell can't i shrink that 27 GB partition and isnstall meego on that?08:23
hatake_kakashiTronic, and fyi meego was recommended to be installed on microSD, not the internal eMMC08:24
hatake_kakashiyou can in theory08:24
TimmyTand how to bootup that? by nolo? or it is possible to install grup on device?08:24
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hatake_kakashiyou have to use uboot08:25
hatake_kakashinolo > uboot > you choose whether you want to boot maemo or meego08:25
TimmyTy are u saying in theory?08:25
TronicFor good performance you should really use the 200 MB flash chip but then you definitely need to throw away the Maemo.08:26
hatake_kakashibecause installation of meego onto eMMC isn't recommended and afaik nobody covered the idea of repartitioning the eMMC for meego to be installed onto that repartitioned portion08:26
TronicDunno how fast the eMMC is, probably not much better than MicroSD.08:26
hatake_kakashiand to use meego directly you won't have all the benefits that you normally get on maemo such as accelerated drivers and what not (certain builds of meego has acceleration mode but others are either broken or not working)08:28
hatake_kakashishould I add certain builds of meego images for N90008:29
TimmyTTronic: im saying this because my microSD card is 512 MB08:29
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robbiethe1stMight just want to go buy yourself an 8GB card? they're like $25...08:29
robbiethe1steven 16gb isn't that much08:30
TimmyTrobbiethe1st: well u know it's 1:30 am08:30
robbiethe1stWell, it's not going to happen tonight... even messing with meego is going to be a number of hours08:31
hatake_kakashiit doesn't stop you from ordering one on the internet08:31
TimmyTrobbiethe1st: so it seems i've to choose another plan for tonight :p08:31
hatake_kakashiand desperation will only lead to a stuffed up setup08:32
robbiethe1stWhy not spend tonight improving Maemo?08:32
robbiethe1stInstall a few tweaks, mess with the transitions etc?08:32
TimmyTit's ok, but i just wanted to know that y this is impossible or not recommended to install it on its internal storage08:33
hatake_kakashimaybe a good idea to also backup current setup as well :P08:33
TimmyTrobbiethe1st: i had an idea08:33
TimmyTrobbiethe1st: it was about a new theme08:33
robbiethe1stWhy? Because you've got to re-partition the emmc. You can't access it over USB(only the one partition is exposed)08:33
robbiethe1stYou'll have to do it on-device, which is sort of tricky; you've got no GUI tool to do it for you08:34
hatake_kakashiit isn't impossible, its just not recommended because one bad mistake could mean a complete reflash (especially with a fubared separate partition for meego on eMMC).08:34
robbiethe1stThe people who can figure out how to do it, well... they aren't going to be complaining that "OMG!!! MEEGo BrOKE My PHONE !!111!"08:35
hatake_kakashior `how do i fix this? is broken! HELP!'08:35
hatake_kakashimaybe even add (urgent) as well and hoping their issues will be quickly addressed/attended to08:36
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robbiethe1stExactly. I'd not have any trouble, but then again, I've reflashed a number of times, figured out how to flash on x64 linux, etc. I'm not going to be complaining if things fail.08:36
TronicTook a few attempts to do the repartitioning with Maemo only (I wanted larger /opt). Reflash every time you did something in the wrong order or if you forgot something trivial.08:37
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TimmyTno im not going to say that, :D i was reading installation wiki , i saw it said u must install it on microSD cards, i thought it may has a certain reason, like being not able to bootup or somethin08:37
hatake_kakashithe reasons were stated above08:38
robbiethe1stYou just have to make sure the optfs partition is in the same partition # on the eMMC lest it won't boot08:38
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mintuxmy phone turn off automatically after upgrade08:54
mintuxto 1.308:54
TimmyTgnu nano in maemo doesn't highlight codes but in pc does, why?08:57
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DocScrutinizer(<Tronic> For good performance you should) says who? also I *never* heard meego got installed on NAND09:04
DocScrutinizer(<hatake_kakashi> because installation of meego onto eMMC isn't recommended and afaik nobody covered the idea of repartitioning the eMMC) MohammadAG did exactly that. A number of other meego users too09:05
DocScrutinizer(eMMC speed) class10 is a hoax mostly. ShadowJK found sandisk class4(?) being way faster on real OS performance than random class1009:06
TimmyTDocScrutinizer: so u r sayin it is ok?09:06
DocScrutinizereye m ! say in t s ok09:08
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: what part of the code has the partition table hard coded into it?09:09
DocScrutinizerwhich code?09:09
hiemanshu(I am assuming you have seen it)09:09
hiemanshufor maemo09:09
hiemanshuto add support for fstab09:09
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DocScrutinizercheck preinit09:10
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hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, indeed, for those who know what they are doing :). I guess sandisk mobs knows what they are doing when it comes to performance on a chip/s. Though they are expensive piece of equipment, they don't offer class 10 32GB microSD (well not as far as I know of down here where I live) and that they are rather expensive. I should note too at one stage they marketed 32GB USB sticks with fairly low read/write performance (I can't remember wh09:20
hatake_kakashiich, it was either one, the other or both) and many 32GB owners complained (source maybe obtained from sandisk website)09:20
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hatake_kakashiinevitably the speeds can never be compared from a microSD to a NAND chip. a NAND chip may be far larger in size and has more connections to the physical board compared that to of microSD09:22
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TronicDocScrutinizer: (NAND install) Me neither but it is the only fast piece of non-volatile memory on the device, right?09:37
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hatake_kakashiinteresting bit of article there on fake and real microSD09:37
TronicShould be much more tolerant for system disk use (repeated writes on the same location) than memory cards.09:38
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TronicBut just to be clear, I definitely don't recommend trying to install MeeGo on the integrated memory of the N900.09:39
DocScrutinizerTronic: I don't think it's so much faster than uSD or eMMC. None of them deviates on even factor 2 from average over all 309:39
TronicIt would be nice if it were hacked to run on some affordable but new Android device (haven't heard of anyone doing this yet).09:40
DocScrutinizerfor anti-vendor ports I'd possibly prefer SHR over meego09:40
DocScrutinizerin my book meego's main (if not only) advantage is vendor support09:41
TronicWhat's SHR?09:41
infobotshr is, like, The Stable Hybrid Release (SHR), intended to be a community driven distribution composed of the FSO and some basic applications, that can be configured to use several different graphical toolkits, for example GTK or EFL. SHR is based on the FSO build. At first, SHR was introduced in order to use the Openmoko2007.2 GTK software in combination with the new FSO, but things have changed.09:42
hatake_kakashiin my case, testing with what seems to be a genuine TopRAM microSD 32GB microSD memory card, it seems the internal Toshiba 32GB is somewhat slightly faster (using fff to compare09:42
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infobotmethinks fso is the mobile devices middleware.09:42
TronicOpenMoko may have been even more confusing than Nokia.09:43
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reenignEesreveRHardware Question: is there an externally powered USB OTG which charges the phone as well as powers the other usb device?09:43
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TronicI mean that "last minute" toolkit change.09:44
DocScrutinizeris there a what?09:44
DocScrutinizera cable, a PSU, a mode?09:44
cehtehcan you charge while in hostmode?09:44
infobotsomebody said hostmode-powered was
cehtehif yes, then a modified hub will do09:45
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DocScrutinizernote please hostmode is NOT OTG09:45
DocScrutinizerI'll rename h-e-n to shino09:46
DocScrutinizershino hostmode is not otg09:46
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reenignEesreveRwell ... whether hostmode or OTG ... as far as it connects another device :)09:47
reenignEesreveRwhat i wanna do is connect a 3G EVO USB Dongle ... its going to leech the phone's battery qiuckly09:48
reenignEesreveRlooking for a remedy09:48
DocScrutinizerit's not going to work at all with embedded power09:49
reenignEesreveRso hostmode-powered will work? has anyone already done that?09:49
DocScrutinizerdone what?09:49
DocScrutinizerconnect 3G dongle?09:50
DocScrutinizernot really afaik09:50
DocScrutinizerthough the photo I linked in ~hostmode-charging shows my 3G dongle, with the Y-cable it shipped with, and I powered it *in initial storage mode* from N90009:51
hatake_kakashiat this point in time I'm thinking h-e-n is more of POC concept rather than the OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG really is meant to be on N90009:52
DocScrutinizeranyway my N900 3G is just good enough - why would I want to connect an external 3G dongle?09:52
hatake_kakashiI'm sure one could easily relate to that :)09:52
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reenignEesreveRbecause in my country, 3g is only availabe on evdo dongles :(09:53
DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: eh?? h-e-n never been and wasn't meant to be ""the OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG""09:54
DocScrutinizernevertheless for a PoC it's extremely popular09:54
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, that's what I said :) meant to be POC *rather than* OEM's ideal approach to what USB hostmode/OTG is meant to be09:55
DocScrutinizersorry, I don't get it, and it kinda feels annoying to see you ranting about h-e-n09:56
reenignEesreveRcan i use a CDMA UIM with N900 in the SIM Card holder ?09:56
DocScrutinizerif you think it needs improvements, go ahead and get verbose09:56
* reenignEesreveR is trying to distract a flamewar09:57
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hatake_kakashiI'm not slanting h-e-n. It is a nice functionality for those of us (yes including myself) wants to attach various other USB devices to N900. Afterall the Nokia N tablets had USB OTG (or at least the precedessor did) and N900 didn't have USB OTG which is a fairly dramatic letdown09:57
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hatake_kakashiand I too also agree that PoC is getting rather popular, but sometimes also more often than not it is used in ways it was never meant to be, such as for illicit purposes. Not that in precise terms that USB OTG/hostmode for N900 can be used for illicit purposes but nobody said it was impossible on the contrary :)10:00
DocScrutinizerN900 is first NIT device with USB charging only, and to accomplish that and then also get the cert of USB board, they had to mess with OTG detection and broke some functions in hw. They had no time to run further spins on hw revisions testing and whatnot, so they accepted the fact and binned OTG and hostmode10:01
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DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: sorry, the term "illicit purposes" makes no sense to me - and believe me I had no "illicit purposes" in mind I wanted to exclude from future h-e-n usecases when I waded through making it happen10:03
DocScrutinizerh-e-n came to life to turn N900 into a proper USB host. Nothing less, nothing more10:04
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DocScrutinizerabout charging hostmode nevertheless I thought thoroughly after basic functions worked just so good that my headache started to get better10:06
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, heh I guess I should have been more clearer, I meant illicit purpose that doesn't redefine what the original PoC maker did. Much like Sony PS3's case of jailbreak kit later lead to pirated PS3 stuff. In theory USB hostmode could be used for instance in breaking other people's WEP quicker (notably with pk, aircrack-ng suite and the like)10:06
DocScrutinizererr uhuh10:06
robbiethe1stWell, um... that's the reason you lock down everything, including all ports. Remember, if your pesky users can't use it, they can't /mis/-use it!10:07
DocScrutinizerand what means "original PoC maker" - wouldn't "you" be a shorter term?10:07
hatake_kakashiit is confusing, it isn't directly related but for that instance it is in the slightest hint of the sense made it possible10:07
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hatake_kakashi`original PoC maker' I personally define it as whoever made this crack/flaw possible but never had any illicit intentions in mind10:08
DocScrutinizermade it possible?10:08
DocScrutinizerVolta made it possible when he invented electricity?10:09
hatake_kakashimade it possible as in easing the effect of one having to do it all by hand (which can be a rather cumbersome mode)10:09
DocScrutinizerI was quite a bit involved in gathering the info bits and designing the needed sw bits10:10
DocScrutinizerbut I didn't make it possible10:10
hatake_kakashiagain I'm not saying you had evil intentions, but such PoC like most others can be twisted into dark realms and be used as illicit tools, such as aircrack-ng, nmap, and what not10:10
hatake_kakashiwell you had a UI afaik :)10:10
DocScrutinizermeh, I'm afk10:10
hatake_kakashirather GUI10:10
DocScrutinizerthis gets me dizzy10:11
DocScrutinizerwhat a nonsense10:11
DocScrutinizerenabling USB on a computer can be abused for illicit purposes - OK man10:11
DocScrutinizerimagine! I could attach a relais card and trigger a bomb with it10:12
hatake_kakashiok I'll leave it at that :) I'm not going to argue on the finer specifics (I guess drunkedness is causing me slightly more verbose than usual)10:12
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* DocScrutinizer51 wants to see hatake_kakashi do N900 hostmode "by hand" on a stock kernel :-P10:31
DocScrutinizer51sounds like "doing WLAN by hand" when you are missing the kernel driver10:32
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer51, what's the point in that? as I stated before I'm not against you for the creation of USB host mode in general or even with USB hostmode/OTG :)10:33
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villagerI'm blaming the universe for laws of physics which seem to inadvertently make nuclear bombs, poisons, electrocution, violent video games, and usb host mode possible10:42
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EvanescenceI am using phoneStream, I transfer audio to computer, open with VLC, but how to save that audio into an audio file ?11:02
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kerioEvanescence: tell vlc to do it11:34
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fauxfonedoes the traffic from this channel get saved in some searchable place?11:38
dm8tbrsee topic11:39
infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.11:39
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fauxfonethank you11:39
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Shapeshifter sneaky11:42
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merlin1991 Shapeshifter yes you are ;)12:10
merlin1991but Shapeshifter this log does log lines starting with a space :D12:11
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eikkkahey, i have a question about an email i got from nokia, it says that the IM feature of the Contacts application (on my n900) is going to be "discontinued", and I'd have to get a Chat application from Ovi Store or whatever.. but there is no Chat app for n90012:58
eikkkadoes this thing actually affect my msn and fb IM's?12:59
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merlin1991eikkka: msn and fb im on the n900 are done by a community extension from meamo extras13:01
merlin1991I guess the email is about ovi messaging thing13:01
eikkkaah, i see13:01
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eikkkaso only thing's changing that i can't use Ovi chat through the normal conversations window?13:02
jacekowskieikkka: are you sure it's about n900?13:03
eikkka(not using ovi anyway)13:03
jacekowskieikkka: not about some symbian phones13:03
eikkkano i'm not13:03
jacekowskii doubt that they would be changing anything on n90013:03
eikkkait says that i got the email because i've used the software on my phone13:03
eikkkaYou are receiving this email because you have used instant messaging (IM) from the Contacts application on your Nokia phone.13:04
eikkkabut eh13:04
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eikkkaanyway i guess we'll see tomorrow when it's "discontinued"13:05
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Macergame of thrones was awesome13:09
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MohammadAGOvi Chat will probably break tomorrow for all N900 users13:21
MohammadAGjacekowski, they're breaking the old API13:22
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cehtehanyone used ovi chat?13:24
cehtehfor all n900 users, that means approx 0 users right? :)13:24
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cehteh(it never worked for me when it tried it once)13:25
TimmyThow to disable auto checking feature of email in maemo??13:27
ShadowJKTimmyT, email - titlebar menu - settings - scroll down - uncheck update automatically13:28
TimmyTShadowJK: aa, tnx dear, i think it is a little bit anoying when im using imap,13:30
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fusianyone know of a native (c/c++) oauth lib that doesnt have a bajillion dependancies?18:37
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fusicurrently treying to get liboauth to compile om maemo18:37
fusior is there a way i can call python from c and have it return the result somehow o_O18:38
fusiknow sfa about python ^^18:38
fusipython has an oauth lib -_-18:38
fusidont want no localhost proxies18:38
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ShapeshifterProblem: On my n900 I always see a wlan AP called Free Public WiFi, no matter if I'm in the middle of nowhere. I can't connect to it. How do I get rid of it?19:18
lcukShapeshifter, lol19:21
lcukinternet connections dialog19:21
lcukin settings19:21
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TronicI guess that happens for Ad-hoc networks.19:22
TronicI have one that is "stuck" on mine too.19:23
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Shapeshifterlcuk: mhh that was sufficient. I thought it was something more serious19:54
fusiis there a function equivalent to MessageBox() in mameo?19:56
fusito create a modal dialog with some text in it and a button19:56
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fusiwithout using ie qt19:56
orangeyhello all19:56
orangeyis there such a thing as encrypting my whole maemo phone?19:56
lcukblendtec offer some nice one way encryption devices19:57
fusiaww maaaaan19:59
fusii gotta use hildon to make dialogs19:59
fusiwas kinda hoping for a catch all easy to use no mess function19:59
fusiinstead of YET MORE BLOODY DEPENDANCIES >:[19:59
* fusi grumbles20:00
fusii will keep searching20:00
orangeylcuk: sheesh20:00
orangeylcuk: I'll take that as a "no"20:00
orangeyI find the phone quite terrible security-wise, which is surprising considering the linux20:00
NIN101besides the rootfs20:00
NIN101you can encrypt home, MyDocs, the swap partition...20:00
orangeyNIN101: i'm not getting any love on tmo on how to do it. is there some unified doc on the matter?20:01
fusihmmm dbus20:02
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NIN101home is easy20:03
NIN101eh I meant, MyDocs is easy.20:03
NIN101I would not recommend encryption of the home partition for beginners.20:04
orangeydoesn't seem like the phone can be hardened with any ease20:05
orangeyi guess I'll wipe my n810 and use that20:06
SpeedEvilNot easily, no.20:06
orangeySpeedEvil: can you imagine it with current tools?20:06
orangeyeasy or hard?20:06
SpeedEvilorangey: I can imagine anything!20:06
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SpeedEvilAnd depending on what you want to do - hard20:07
SpeedEvilIf you want the entire device encrypted - contacts and all - you're going to have to go in quite deep.20:07
SpeedEvilIf you want to have teh software encrypted too - it gets lots messier still.20:07
orangeyi'm not asking for much20:07
orangeyjust something that would stand up to a sophisticated state adversary20:08
orangey; )20:08
SpeedEvilYou need to basically start off at the bootloader, and then heavily patch all the startup scripts.20:08
fusii'm just careful with my phone..20:08
fusiseems to do the job20:08
NIN101And an encrypted /home/ is PITA after a reflash.20:08
SpeedEvilIn principle a bootloader that booted, and took a key from a connected USB keydrive.20:08
SpeedEvilWould work20:09
NIN101this is not needed.20:09
DocScrutinizerenrypting is EASY. Just booting starts to get nasty impossible from there on XP20:09
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orangeyXP?  What does that have to do with it?20:10
orangeySpeedEvil: yeah, that would be the ideal.20:10
SpeedEvilI'm sure you get USB keys with 'forget' buttons on.20:10
SpeedEvilI forget where I've seen them.20:10
SpeedEvilorangey: But you'd also need the device to shut off when it gets out of your hands.20:10
orangeySpeedEvil: the other big issue will be locking when it sleeps / laeves me20:11
orangeySpeedEvil: right20:11
fusisd? cant reliably be erased20:11
SpeedEvilIt can't be in a state to take calls - if it's not on your person20:11
fusisaw a paper on that a while ago20:11
SpeedEvilfusi: I said USB drives, not S.20:11
SpeedEvilfusi: SD20:11
DocScrutinizerorangey: you *should* keep your precious data in a special crypted filesystem that you don't need for booting and can loopmount any time20:11
SpeedEvilfusi: And I mean ones specifically designed for security20:11
fusiwell, anything flash based20:12
orangeyDocScrutinizer: as it happens, it's my contacts that would need encryption most20:12
fusibest one ive seen it the one that physically destroys its insides20:12
fusionly way to be safe20:12
SpeedEvilfusi: It's really not20:12
DocScrutinizerorangey: the you have a hard time20:12
SpeedEvilfusi: Low-level flash is quite volatile.20:12
NIN101 but as said, I do not recommend that for beginners, as it's likely that they will mess something up. My setup: I boot, and enter a LUKS key(fbcon console), then after lock code and pin, an autostart truecrypt mount for MyDocs....20:12
orangeyI'm talking about making contact with people while collecting human rights violations in hostile states20:12
SpeedEvilfusi: If a block has been block erase, it's gone.20:12
fusiSpeedEvil: ill see if i can find the article..20:13
SpeedEvilfusi: The hard part is that in many devices, the firmware handles the eraseblocks, and may not quite do that with all data.20:13
orangeyNIN101: I am no newbie20:13
SpeedEvilfusi: The low-level storage media is quite erasable.20:13
fusiso its a controller issue20:13
DocScrutinizerfusi: the data left over in "unused" blocks is a common problem to all fs20:13
kerioSpeedEvil: something something electron microscope blah blah20:14
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SpeedEvilkerio: naah - doesn't help20:14
orangeyi suspect the best way to do this is paper that I light on fire20:15
kerioorangey: or an SD that you light on fire20:15
SpeedEvilfusi: See also
kerioyay data density20:15
orangeykerio: I wouldn't trust an SSD to be destroyed.20:15
orangeyrather, SD20:15
fusiSpeedEvil: heheh was just going to post that from here
kerioorangey: huh?20:15
orangeySpeedEvil: yeah, that was encouraging20:15
* SpeedEvil notes that microSDs can be chomped up in your teeth with only minor damage.20:16
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kerioorangey: very little survives a thermal lance20:16
SpeedEvilfusi: I know - that paper doesn't reveal anything new to me.20:16
fusii drove over one of my sd cards once in a gravel carparl >.<20:16
fusiwas fine ^^20:16
DocScrutinizerNIN101: your setup sounds rather nifty and evolved20:16
orangeykerio: but who knows about all the garbage left behind while manipulating that data20:16
fusi few deep scratches :)20:16
SpeedEvilOnce a microSD is physically damaged - snapped in half - you are not getting any data out.20:16
DocScrutinizerNIN101: do you deal with swap?20:16
NIN101yes I do20:16
SpeedEvilUnless you're willing to invest truly many millions in it.20:16
kerioSpeedEvil: blah blah electron microscope something something20:16
DocScrutinizerNIN101: cool20:17
SpeedEvilkerio: It's really debatable that works even.20:17
orangeySpeedEvil: micro sd is the best thing to use because, of course, it's so easy to hide.20:17
kerios/hide/chomp up and swallow/20:17
orangeyonce found, it has to be assumed completely compromised, though20:17
keriobut again, a thermal lance is preferrable20:17
kerioand if you really care about your data, truecrypt20:17
DocScrutinizerkerio: ouch20:17
keriowith fake data on the upper level20:17
* DocScrutinizer hands kerio salt, pepper, and tabasco sauce20:18
kerioDocScrutinizer: i'm not swallowing a thermal lance20:18
DocScrutinizeruSD is sharp enough20:18
keriothat's why you chomp it20:18
orangeykerio: you have a lead on some pocket thermal lances that won't arouse suspicion in airports?20:19
DocScrutinizerkerio: this is IRC, allow for lags on answers20:19
* SpeedEvil ponders.20:19
SpeedEvilI wonder about selling a microSD reader.20:19
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SpeedEvilWith an added feature that snaps the microSD in half when you press a button20:19
SpeedEvilOr it's pulled off a lanyard20:19
orangeySpeedEvil: god, why?20:19
keriojust use encryption, really20:19
orangeySpeedEvil: that would result 99 times out of 100 in accidental destruction20:19
SpeedEvilorangey: Sometimes accidental destruction is just fine. That's what backups are for.20:20
kerioencrypted backups!20:20
orangeySpeedEvil: you'd have to personally vet every customer20:20
peterbjornxi have a problem with my N900, when i try to run something really heavy on the cpu (installing a shitload of debs in a chroot) it just reboots or Xterm closes20:20
SpeedEvilorangey: Why?20:20
DocScrutinizerand spare cards are available thru our omlime shop, at as little as $9920:20
peterbjornxits connected to the charger20:20
orangeySpeedEvil: to save them from themselves20:20
fusipeterbjornx: are you overclocking20:21
SpeedEvilI would have a pay-per-minute support line for data recovery.20:21
SpeedEvilWhere I get paid to laugh at people.20:21
orangey"sorry. you're fucked. 2.99 please"20:21
peterbjornxi tried that, but it also happens at 600Mhz20:21
peterbjornxit does not overheat20:21
orangeyOK, time to show my n810 some love20:21
orangeyit's been a while20:21
kerioreally though, what's wrong with truecrypt20:22
kerioi don't understand20:22
orangeykerio: not comprehensive enough for my use case20:22
SpeedEvilWith truecrypt you can be required to reveal the key.20:22
SpeedEvilIn many legislations.20:22
orangeythe true conclusion is that it is impossible to do what I need technologically with an n90020:22
SpeedEvilOr face contempt of court.20:22
fusizomfg i just compiled liboauth for maemo \o/ o// \\o \o/20:22
SpeedEvilorangey: not quite20:22
SpeedEvilorangey: It's difficult, but quite possible.20:23
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: run: nice <yourcommand>20:23
orangeySpeedEvil: essentially impossible..20:23
kerioSpeedEvil: that's what the upper level with gay foot fetish brazilian fart porn is for20:23
orangeySpeedEvil: I'm speaking practically here.20:23
SpeedEvilorangey: I'd pay $5 say if you can get it done.20:23
SpeedEvilorangey: It's quite practical - there is no software reason it can't be done.20:23
orangeySpeedEvil: to do what I want, we're talking WDE20:23
DocScrutinizerorangey: you missed NIN101 's comments20:23
orangeyDocScrutinizer: I read it all20:24
orangeywhole disk encryption20:24
SpeedEvilIt's not technologically hard. All the parts are there.20:24
SpeedEvilIt's just annoying to put in place.20:24
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: NIN101 approach seems just good enough20:24
kerioif they force you to open the volume, you break down crying, open it, and show the porn while apologizing to no one in particular20:24
orangeySpeedEvil: I use wde with my regular computers and a CD to get the whole thing started20:25
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orangeybut it's true that to do that with a phone more or less is no good.20:25
fusiare you james bond ^^20:26
orangeyfusi: just a super paranoid dude.20:26
SpeedEvilorangey: It's not no good.20:26
NIN101even more than me.20:26
SpeedEvilorangey: It requires some compromises.20:26
peterbjornxdo i need to raise or lower the priority20:26
peterbjornxwhat causes the reboot20:27
DocScrutinizerorangey: why would you need WDE? isn't encryption of $HOME and MyDocs just enough?20:27
peterbjornxis it the program that reboots the device incase Xorg/hildon stops responding?20:27
SpeedEvilorangey: For example, a means to keep the phone on you at all times, and shut off. As well as a boot key that you can destroy the key on.20:27
SpeedEvilThen there are the meta-questions.20:27
orangeySpeedEvil: why compromise, though? so that I can have a shiny phone to play with?20:27
fusinot rly my area all this ^^ gonna go fiddle with liboauth20:28
SpeedEvilorangey: Compromise in terms of operation, not shinyness.20:28
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: nice defaults to increasing niceness aka lowering prio20:28
fusigl on ur quest orangey :)20:28
orangeyDocScrutinizer: without wde, you can never be fully sure somebody hasn't tampered around. then you're playing with something you think is secure,w hich is worse than assuming that your system is insecure20:28
peterbjornxbut why does xterm get killed if it uses 100% CPU20:29
DocScrutinizerorangey: wait for N920:29
DocScrutinizerTHE device for you20:29
orangeyDocScrutinizer: why?20:29
SpeedEvilorangey: All computers today have a boot ROM in the CPU. You don't know what it does.20:29
DocScrutinizerhas full MSSF framework20:29
SpeedEvilorangey: You can't get source.20:29
orangeyDocScrutinizer: I will admit that I'm probably leaving maemo after my n900 dies (in many years, hopefully)20:29
orangeyI love my n900 so much.20:29
orangeyI literally cried when elop did his thing20:29
DocScrutinizer~tell orangey about aegis20:30
orangeyI can't imagine anything even close to maemo's conversations, for example20:30
peterbjornxbut why does xterm get killed if it uses 100% CPU20:30
orangeyand the contact management is unparalleled.20:30
SpeedEvilorangey: In adition, in a PC, every single device on the PCIe bus with firmware (that's all of them) is a vector you have no source for.20:31
DocScrutinizerorangey: obviously this also means *you* (the user) also don't have any more control over the device, as the concept is based on the assumption every user might be rogue20:31
SpeedEvilAnd as I point out to DocScrutinizer every time, in principle, with truste computing, the user can have the keys.20:31
infobotSpeedEvil meant: And as I point out to DocScrutinizer every time, in principle, with truste computing, the owner can have the keys.20:32
SpeedEvilThe fact the owner does not have the keys is the objectionable part.20:32
DocScrutinizerso as the MSSF can't distinguish you from a rogue attacker sneaking in some sniffer to your device, it is based on the concept that *nobody* can do this without certification from Nokia20:32
DocScrutinizerin Nikia we trust ;-P20:32
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peterbjornxcan someone answer me20:33
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: how would you make sure no CIA or Mossad or whatever easily gets your "private key printed on page 0" from their comprehensive database they got from dunno where?20:34
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: shouldn't get killed on 100% CPU usage20:34
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: In principle the key could be writeable.20:34
DocScrutinizerdoesn't get killed here20:34
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orangeyI think we've gone above and beyond here : )20:35
orangeythank you to all, though20:35
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: in principle... we could tweak TC speks until we finally got sth that has nothing in common with current TC/TPM design and concept, and that would finally meet your ideas then20:36
DocScrutinizerthe reality is *different* though20:36
orangeywe've probably more than sufficiently answered two questions: 1) not all that practical to do; 2) we need help. REAL help20:36
DocScrutinizerTPM isn't built to change root key20:36
SpeedEvilCurrent implementations are not, no.20:37
SpeedEvilorangey: It's quite practical to do, if you have the skills.20:37
orangeyand the time.20:37
SpeedEvilorangey: There are no fundamentally very hard bits - all of the heavy lifting has been done - it's just effort and time.20:37
orangeySpeedEvil: there is nothing practical about trying to test and execute a WDE on which people's lives may rely20:37
SpeedEvilorangey: Err - what? The technical implementation is fairly straightforward.20:38
SpeedEvilThe hard part is turning off when you put the device down.20:38
SpeedEvilIn addition - you do kow that the modem will tell the tower its location whenever it's on, if asked from the GPS?20:39
SpeedEvilWithout any software action at all, and you have no security for calls from the telco20:39
orangeySpeedEvil: it will actually try to get a satellite gps lock?20:40
orangeySpeedEvil: or do you just mean through the agps thing?20:40
orangeyanyway, the location security is something I've run into before.20:40
DocScrutinizerGPS has a msg "please get GPS" and modem will try to obbey20:40
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: GSM has a msg "please get GPS" and modem will try to obbey20:41
SpeedEvilAny time the modem is connected to a tower the tower can ask the phone to do lots of stuff.20:41
SpeedEvilEntirely seperate from the linux side.20:41
orangeyit's common enough that I actually physically unplug the battery when I go on these trips20:41
SpeedEvilthe only way you can tell is you might get an instant GPS lock if you turn GPS on20:41
SpeedEvil(and 50mA more draw)20:42
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peterbjornxbut, can we not request the modem firmware source and comment out the code responsible20:44
lcukirony, i can get the device on wallwart to show the usb checking symbol.20:44
peterbjornxor code in bullshit coordinates20:44
lcukwhen i use usb on any computer it will not come on20:45
DocScrutinizerbut then, if the phone is connected to any BTS, they already got your location to a precision of ~+/-250m20:45
SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: No20:45
SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: The GSM code is on a seperate core20:45
peterbjornxi know it is20:45
SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: It is not bound by the GPL.20:45
peterbjornxok, then cantwe disassemble it20:45
SpeedEvilYou can dissasemble it.20:46
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: the modem firmware is hash-signed20:46
SpeedEvilBut not flash it, as it's cryptographically secured.20:46
peterbjornxdarn, i hate such things20:46
peterbjornxbut, what (besides low battery and overheat) will cause a n900 to spontaneously reboot20:47
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: pretty difficult to answer20:47
peterbjornxas on multiple attempts at running apt-get install kde in a chroot it just reboots20:48
DocScrutinizerusually some basic system process (e.g. bme) will act up, and dsme fails on restarting it, so dsme says "time for a reboot!"20:48
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peterbjornxso, "nice" should indeed work20:49
peterbjornxat the cost of slowing the process even more20:49
DocScrutinizermaybe apt-get install is executing an offending preinstall script or sth like that20:49
DocScrutinizeror simply is eating up 100% of rootfs space20:49
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peterbjornxneither, its a chroot20:49
peterbjornxbut before the reboot all GUI components freeze20:49
DocScrutinizerooh, the apt-get running *inside* chroot?20:50
SpeedEvilpeterbjornx: You've probably run out of swap - I guess20:50
peterbjornxxterm and the whole desktop env freeze20:50
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DocScrutinizerand not using bindmounts to e.g /tmp etc20:50
peterbjornxthat might be it20:50
peterbjornxim using ezchroot20:50
peterbjornxtrying a normal chroot now20:51
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DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: you looked at syslog?20:51
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DocScrutinizeralso SpeedEvil 's suspicion about running short on mem/swap has some point20:53
peterbjornxbut, does that really cause a restart20:53
DocScrutinizeryes, sure20:54
peterbjornxi guess it would just kill dpkg20:54
DocScrutinizereventually it will20:54
DocScrutinizeryeah, you'd think it should just kill dpkg, but reality is different20:54
lardman|laptopwas there an ocr package available for fremantle?20:54
peterbjornxill create a 2 gig swapfile on emmc20:55
DocScrutinizerOOM will not detect the multiple dpkg processes each eating "only" a few xx MB of RAM20:55
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: you're doing sth nasty, I don't think 2GB additional swap are the answer20:56
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DocScrutinizerNB there are already 0.8GB swap20:56
DocScrutinizerlook, 2 days ago I visited a webpage that had ~400 URLs pointing to files that I planned to download. I was naive enough to use KDE kget's "add all URLs to list of downloads" function, and that pretty much killed my 2GBram 6GB swap 2GHz Intel pentium duo laptop21:00
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DocScrutinizerjust saying: check your procedures, rather than trying to add swap space21:01
peterbjornxok, but installing kde is done on desktops all the time, without problem21:01
peterbjornxive installed kde on desktop with 3 gig total ram (real+swap)21:01
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: how's that on topic now?21:02
DocScrutinizerI was talking about your dpkg calls maybe get parallelized, or you are installing a package that has 500 dependencies that get auto-installed to dpkg ram usage explodes, or sth like that21:03
peterbjornxas i expect a n900 with (im adding 3 gig swap) 3,8GB swap and 0,2GB ram should be able to do that21:03
peterbjornxim installing the metapackage so yes a lot of deps21:03
DocScrutinizeryou can not do that21:03
DocScrutinizeron virtually no system21:04
DocScrutinizerget a list of dependencies and install then one by one, like >># for f in `cat list-of-depends`; do dpkg -i $f; done21:05
peterbjornxor i could use debootstrap --include to create  the chroot with it21:05
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DocScrutinizererr wut?21:06
peterbjornxyou do know what debootstrap is right?21:08
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peterbjornxits a tool to create a chroot21:08
DocScrutinizerand I'm not really interested in learning it right now21:08
peterbjornxit doesnt use apt get and does dependencys like you said21:09
fusiwhats he keyb shortcut to restart x? (in sdk)21:12
fusiscreensaver has come on and it wont go away :/21:12
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DocScrutinizerkillall xephyr ?21:14
fusicant get to a console21:14
DocScrutinizererrr wut? your SDK locked the host system?21:14
fusithe vm image21:15
DocScrutinizerthere's still a host system21:16
fusiyea the vurtial host is bork21:16
DocScrutinizerxephyr just a process on host system, and inside that your emu is running21:16
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fusiyea, this is the host that has esbox in it21:17
fusithe screensaver came on21:17
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fusiresizing the window it 'looks' like its still running because its a bit slow repainting21:17
fusiand i can see the dt bg21:17
fusiin xp atm, with maemo sdk vm image in a vmware21:18
fusinever mind ill just go back to a snapshot21:19
DocScrutinizerso inside vm click the close button of the xephyr window21:19
fusidid u see the link i posted21:19
DocScrutinizerI'm filteriung random links21:19
fusiok dont worry bout it21:20
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DocScrutinizeror rather
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DocScrutinizerthere's still xephyr.close(maemo), and vmware-linux.kill(xephyr)21:25
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TimmyT1how to use xmpp/jabber to login into yahoo? (yahoo transport)21:38
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villagerpeterbjornx: if the problem is swapping, which I'm pretty sure it is, adding more swap will only make it worse.22:00
peterbjornxcan i disable DSME?22:01
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peterbjornxso my n900 wont reboot22:01
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villagerin my experience, when I used to try that stuff, it must be the hardware watchdog timer triggering, not sure if there's a way to turn that off22:04
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villagerlooks like enabling R&D mode allows you to kill the watchdog22:07
villagerother than that, I haven't found anything beyond just trying not to give the system that much system load for more than a minute at a time22:09
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qknighthihi. i have a maemo phone here and i need to find the wpa2 key i have set. i lost it but i probably could somehoe recover it. but it seems that maemo is not using wpa_supplicant22:13
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qknightany idea where the plaintext password could be saved?22:14
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peterbjornxinstall the app22:15
peterbjornxgconf editor22:15
peterbjornxit should be in there somewhere22:16
peterbjornxi stumpled upon my pw in there22:16
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peterbjornxthen one of the entries is your wlan22:18
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qknightsigh, it seems i damaged the app cataloge by moving from fremantle 1.2 to 1.322:21
qknightright now i have only 10apps in the cataloge22:21
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qknightpeterbjornx: thanks for your idea anyway22:23
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qknight < i found this about IM passwords, but i need the one wlan password...22:23
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qknight < i think this is what you were referring to22:24
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internetishardever do three way call?22:30
internetishardstupid question, but how do you do it?22:30
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internetishardIs it phone or provider dependent?22:30
peterbjornxdoes anyone in here know how to get chroot + sudo to work in scratchbox22:31
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jacekowskipeterbjornx: you can't22:35
peterbjornxwhy not?22:36
peterbjornxi gave up on trying to create that chroot img on my n90022:36
jacekowskibecause chroot requires you to be root22:36
peterbjornxcant that be fixed?22:36
jacekowskisudo won't work in scratchbox22:36
jacekowskiunless that would be x86 scratchbox22:36
jacekowskibut that defeats the purpose22:36
cehtehwhats wrong with fakeroot?22:37
peterbjornxjust did22:39
jacekowskifakeroot won't make chroot work22:39
jacekowskichroot is a kernel syscall that requires you to be root22:39
cehtehthere is a fakechroot too, dunno if thats ported to scratchbox22:39
peterbjornxbut would it fix dpkg22:39
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jacekowskifakeroot fixes dpkg22:39
jacekowskiif that's what you need22:39
qknightyepee found it!22:40
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qknightgood that the n900 has a shell with grep :-)22:40
qknightcya! and thanks a lot22:41
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DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: when you're running out of RAM then no stopping watchdogs/DSME will help you out22:44
peterbjornxits not ram22:46
peterbjornxi had conky running22:46
peterbjornxcpu at 100%22:46
peterbjornxswap at 20%22:46
DocScrutinizerpeterbjornx: once the kernel kswapd is busy with swapping for more than 60s, I gather there's nothing really that can help you out of this situation than a very welcome hw watchdog, or just pulling battery. Unless you are willing to wait for weeks or months for your process to finish while it swaps 4GB in and out permanently22:47
peterbjornxok then how the hell do i do this22:48
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i once left my old PC for few days22:48
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it took it 4 days before OOM killer decided to do it's job22:48
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: yoh22:49
peterbjornxhow do i do this install22:49
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: been there, seen that22:49
r4ph431hi, I'm doing my j2me "hello world!" (with microemulator), does one knows about the possible reasons for " Unable to find class ... URL" ?22:50
Jaffar4ph431: The reasons would vary depending on if it's your class or one of microemulator's/JRE's which is wrong22:51
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DocScrutinizerjacekowski: once your linked list of data objects exceeds the size your system can keep in ram, each walk down the list will slow down from n microseconds to nnn milliseconds due to swapping hell. Such huge linked lists are especially likely to be seen in package managers when dealing with huge trees of dependencies in packages22:54
DocScrutinizeryast of first opensuse version was notorious to act like that, probably because of that friggin red carpet thing they tried to plumb on and also due to mono (UGH!! :-o)22:56
DocScrutinizeror was it last suse suse version before they went opensuse? can't remember22:57
DocScrutinizersame effect occured on OM opkg when doing an upgrade22:59
DocScrutinizerwell the device was really short on RAM ;-D22:59
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DocScrutinizerthe solution always is the same: get a list of missing/updateable pkgs, then install/update each pkg without caring about dependencies. Once you're thru with all the single-pkg-install, you start up your "smart" pkg manager again to check the dependencies once more23:01
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DocScrutinizerhoping there aren't any unmet left, or if there are then so few that the pkgmanager can deal with the size of the resulting data object list23:02
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internetishardSo are three way calls dependent on the phone or carrier?23:12
DocScrutinizeractually freeing up one MB or even a few kB of ram, e.g. by kiling another process, can speed up such a package manager in a critical situation by factor 10^6, if it's just the amound of RAM that is missing to keep the complete list resident23:13
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DocScrutinizershorting the list of objects by kicking one package out of the repository can have the same speedup effect23:14
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internetishardjacekowski: ok, how do you do it on the n900?23:19
internetishardIt does call waiting when I try23:20
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DocScrutinizerinternetishard: if you fail to do it via dialer gui, there's always the service codes you enter via touchtone keypad.23:23
DocScrutinizerdunno if it really works on N900, it's supposed to work at least23:24
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jacekowskii don't think n900 can do conference calls23:29
DocScrutinizerwhy not?23:30
tank-mancause i have the patent on it!23:31
DocScrutinizerconference call is a service established in the exchange of your provider, you only need the right signalling to control that feature23:31
DocScrutinizeriirc the codes are along **0 to **3 (0 usually ending sth, 3 entering conference mode) 1 and 2 is for switching between first and second call iirc23:32
SpeedEvilConference call with the different people coming out of different speakers would be cool23:33
internetishardThey're both long distance if that matters23:34
DocScrutinizerso: ** put on hold; 0 reject waiting call, 1 accept another call waiting23:34
internetishardyou just type 1 when you've an incoming call you want to add?23:34
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: technically your phone has only one established call23:35
SpeedEvilI know.23:35
DocScrutinizerso you can't split the 2 far ends to different audio destinations23:35
SpeedEvil(barring SIP/...)23:35
DocScrutinizerSIP does it differently, yes23:35
DocScrutinizeras there's no exchange at all23:36
Shapeshifteryay PAN tethering23:36
Shapeshifterdecently fast, too. 1.5 down, 0.5 up. not too bad.23:37
* SpeedEvil is doing pan tethering in the kitchen23:37
SpeedEvilCurrently working out hte right height for the shelves.23:37
ShapeshifterBut this was a bit of pain, setting it up. It was easy in the end but finding exactly the right info was difficult23:37
ShapeshifterThis kind of thing should work out of the box at the touch of a button.23:37
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: :D23:38
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: get your provider's howto about 3-way via network service codes23:38
DocScrutinizerusally all just follow the 3GPP recommendations23:38
SpeedEvilShapeshifter: This is to what device?23:39
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: an archlinux lap top.23:39
ShapeshifterSpeedEvil: n900 providing.23:39
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: p16 >> 6.5.5 Handling of supplementary services within a call23:40
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SpeedEvilShapeshifter: ah - neat23:42
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DocScrutinizerinternetishard: please report if it works for you. I can't test this as my provider doesn't support call-waiting etc23:44
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internetishardcan't believe I didn't see it on the forums... Seems like something common and necessary23:45
SpeedEvilThat 99.9% of people don't use I suspect.23:47
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ShapeshifterAnd sip also works great. good stuff. I can hardly believe how badly android performes with sip.23:49
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: please note you probably may want to have *#-ena installed, just in case it makes a difference on how N900 modem is processing the codes. Also IIRC some carriers may require a leading * or ** or a trailing # attached to the numeric codes, to distinguish them from simple DTMF sent to the far end23:52
DocScrutinizerso the sequence to accept a waiting call is either "2<send>" or "*2<send>" or "**2<send>" or "2#<send>"23:54
internetishardthanks for the clarification23:55
DocScrutinizerif neither works on a N900 with *#-ena installed, then we're out of luck23:55
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DocScrutinizerI'm afraid the dialer doesn't support any of all this, as you got no "normal" keypad during established call, and the DTMF dialpad has no <send> aka "green button"23:58

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