| smegheadz | gonna bookmark it this time. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| fusi | dunno why its highlighting the word battery tho :p | 00:00 |
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| fusi | heheh | 00:00 |
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| smegheadz | :P | 00:00 |
| smegheadz | u have any of the older symbian fones fusi? | 00:01 |
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| smegheadz | like the 7610? | 00:01 |
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| fusi | nope soz, was a winmo fool before i migrated | 00:01 |
| fusi | think ive got a 3210 kicking arounhd somewhere.. does that count ^^ | 00:02 |
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| * Sicelo_ has 2 Nokia N-Gages :P One has WSOD | 00:02 | |
| timeless | X-Fade: ping | 00:02 |
| timeless | anyone here familiar w/ ALS? | 00:02 |
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| fusi | not with that acronym nope :p | 00:02 |
| timeless | fusi: http://www.rohm.com/us/ALS.html | 00:03 |
| smegheadz | just i've been thinking the last few days about my old 7610 i have here | 00:03 |
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| fusi | ooh i wasnt expecting a link how kind! :) | 00:03 |
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| smegheadz | i got a little program on it from nokia that i think would be fun now. | 00:03 |
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| fusi | :) | 00:03 |
| smegheadz | i think the problem with the app was it was at the wrong time. | 00:04 |
| fusi | mm ambient light sensors! sorry i know nothing ^^ | 00:04 |
| Sicelo_ | n-gage & 7610 are basically one phone | 00:04 |
| smegheadz | i know a tiny bit about them timeless | 00:04 |
| fusi | smegheadz: whats the app? | 00:04 |
| Sicelo_ | what app is that? | 00:04 |
| timeless | smegheadz: so,... the n810 and n900 have transflexive displays | 00:04 |
| fusi | yar | 00:05 |
| timeless | i just want to know if the behavior one experiences when taking one out into the sun is solely due to the transflexive display | 00:05 |
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| smegheadz | i can't remember the name. but the point of it was you could make a 3 page mini profile with a pic and anyone who had the app could look at your profile and send a txt over bluetooth. it worked over bluetooth | 00:05 |
| smegheadz | but it also allowed you to message anybody over bluetooth | 00:05 |
| fusi | timeless: the als does dim the screen afaik | 00:05 |
| smegheadz | the fun i had on busses or public places sending random people bluetooth txt's | 00:05 |
| timeless | or whether the ALS needs to be operating in order for the screen to work outside | 00:05 |
| timeless | fusi: it does or rather can | 00:06 |
| fusi | but if in direct sunlight most of what u see will be reflected sunlight | 00:06 |
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| timeless | fusi: right.. | 00:06 |
| fusi | ie - play with the brightness and see if u notie any diff | 00:06 |
| fusi | in direct sunlight u wont see much if any diff | 00:06 |
| timeless | but that works without ALS, right? | 00:06 |
| fusi | yea its just the screen reflecting sunlight back through itself | 00:06 |
| timeless | i'm dealing with a rather stupid "user requirement" | 00:06 |
| fusi | nothing to do with als | 00:06 |
| timeless | (I feel like I'm at Nokia again) | 00:06 |
| fusi | althought he als is used to dim the creen | 00:06 |
| timeless | fusi: right, thanks | 00:06 |
| fusi | based on ambient light levels | 00:07 |
| fusi | hth | 00:07 |
| timeless | sure | 00:07 |
| fusi | ^ lol | 00:07 |
| timeless | sufficient for my response to silly querent | 00:07 |
| fusi | (: | 00:07 |
| timeless | querent makes silly request, i need very limited confirmation for silly parameter | 00:07 |
| smegheadz | timeless, i'm not sure on the product but with some products i work on we have issues with sunlight and to fix this we loop the als so it has the screen at full brightness | 00:07 |
| timeless | result: <smack> | 00:07 |
| fusi | mmk :) | 00:07 |
| timeless | smegheadz: would it be fair to say that such a thing is a bug in your product and / or that integrating ALS is an implementation detail | 00:08 |
| timeless | ... and that there should be no need for anything beyond your product to read the ALS in order for this to *just-work* [tm] | 00:08 |
| timeless | ? | 00:08 |
| timeless | basically there's a "customer" "requiring" "direct access to ALS" | 00:08 |
| timeless | claiming this scenario (being outside in sun) as a "use case" | 00:09 |
| smegheadz | and is there a use case | 00:09 |
| timeless | my claim is that "the system should do the right thing, you don't need to read the ALS for this case" | 00:09 |
| timeless | that's more or less the use case... | 00:09 |
| fusi | what, like reading lux values? | 00:09 |
| timeless | i.e. "no" | 00:09 |
| timeless | fusi: yeah | 00:09 |
| fusi | only if they arent on a transfletive display | 00:10 |
| fusi | c* | 00:10 |
| fusi | yer | 00:10 |
| smegheadz | whats the product | 00:10 |
| timeless | basically... i'm ok with saying "a camera should consider embedding the lux value into its Exif data so that something can consider doing something with it" | 00:10 |
| fusi | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transflective_liquid_crystal_display | 00:10 |
| timeless | smegheadz: arbitrary web browsers or related software | 00:10 |
| timeless | fusi: that link is already purple | 00:11 |
| timeless | (it's footnote [1] in my email) | 00:11 |
| fusi | heh | 00:11 |
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| fusi | jolly good | 00:11 |
| fusi | im off for a smoke | 00:11 |
| fusi | bbl o/ | 00:11 |
| smegheadz | well timeless, if you have software that adjusts the brightness levels already and it's configurable. there is no need for aditional software to access it | 00:12 |
| smegheadz | if the products are being used in the street eg ATM's kiosks etc | 00:13 |
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| smegheadz | ALS is to adjust the screen when it's dark and when it's bright. | 00:15 |
| smegheadz | most complaints i've had about screens are when it's dark and they can't see it because the ALS is faulty. | 00:15 |
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| smegheadz | i'm not sure its a bug in software that directing sunlight on the screen makes it unreadable. is that what your asking? | 00:18 |
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| x29a | does anybody know of a repo providing a newer (>1.4.x) version of subversion for scratchbox? | 01:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: go out in the sun, cover ALS with finger, profit. To answer the result of that execise: screen's properties are not changed by ALS | 01:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: transflexive screens like the N900's are "just working" (more or less) in sunlight. No switch of mode or anything | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | timeless: so no reading of ALS needed | 01:35 |
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| cehteh | in really bright sunlight, the screen light are turned off ... really nokia did something right :) | 01:43 |
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| ShadowJK | I don't think it's switched off | 01:48 |
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| ShadowJK | But in bright sunlight you dont notice the difference | 01:48 |
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| ShadowJK | not until you shade part of the screen | 01:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: I'm not sure about that. I know they switch off kbd bl | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's not at all implemented right | 01:49 |
| ShadowJK | hm? | 01:50 |
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| timeless | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 02:17 |
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| RiD | Hi everyone :) | 02:47 |
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| jiero | Hi, I just installed 2 python game | 02:50 |
| jiero | and they works! | 02:50 |
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| jiero | on the other hand, I do want to ask somebody can compile another game for me to test, vodovod http://home.gna.org/vodovod/ | 02:51 |
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| Guest14180 | good morning | 05:24 |
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| Guest14180 | shit | 05:24 |
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| Termana | good morning :p | 05:25 |
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| fredrin | hai | 05:37 |
| fredrin | fuckers | 05:37 |
| fredrin | work | 05:37 |
| fredrin | !!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111111111unooneen | 05:37 |
| fredrin | move it | 05:37 |
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| jiero | I want people aware of good pygame and port to N900... | 05:59 |
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| updateme | Hey guys, what's new in terms of the next n900 and its openness? | 06:46 |
| updateme | I'm tired of compromising so much for openness, without actually having openness | 06:47 |
| jiero | next n900 not for sale | 06:47 |
| updateme | yeah, the dev version | 06:47 |
| updateme | right? | 06:47 |
| jiero | so nvm, it end up with nobody own it - they all placed in Nokia history museum | 06:48 |
| jiero | updateme: the current user will have to send them back to Nokia if I read the right Article | 06:48 |
| updateme | yeah, but the device they're releasing to everyone won't be... But I hear it doesn't have a keyboard | 06:49 |
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| jiero | no keyboard on N9 but bluetooth keyboard still can be used. | 06:50 |
| updateme | that sucks | 06:51 |
| updateme | It uses MeeGo, right? | 06:51 |
| updateme | Which means it isn't very open, once again? | 06:51 |
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| jiero | How much OpenNess can you expect from an already existing large international corporation ? | 06:54 |
| updateme | I don't know. I'm only trying to compare the openness of meego to maemo, I guess | 06:55 |
| Hurrian | harmattan and openness? | 06:55 |
| Hurrian | lol | 06:55 |
| updateme | Since there were so many things with dampered functionality, like the address book and calendar in maemo | 06:55 |
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| updateme | ug | 06:56 |
| Hurrian | jiero, you can keep the device if you want to | 06:56 |
| updateme | well when will there be a powerful phone that runs shit as open as a real OS | 06:56 |
| Hurrian | updateme, aava phone | 06:56 |
| Hurrian | again, we need the community to start our own "GTA04" | 06:57 |
| Hurrian | newer board for the RX-51 | 06:57 |
| Hurrian | let's call it the RX-52 | 06:57 |
| updateme | hardware is hard (no pun), which helped openmoko to fail | 06:58 |
| Hurrian | the only problem would be design, manufacture and distribution | 06:58 |
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| updateme | but if we can get a mass produced powerful device, which allowed for a non-crippled OS to run, then we can win | 06:58 |
| Hurrian | oh, and it would cost $$$ to produce boards | 06:58 |
| updateme | lol @ "the only problem" | 06:58 |
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| updateme | well I don't know anything about the Aava | 06:59 |
| Hurrian | updateme, we can probably pay someone to make the PCB design files, and have some chinese factory churn the boards out | 06:59 |
| Hurrian | do note that we'll have a hard time acquiring OMAP3630 parts | 06:59 |
| Hurrian | likely need to buy them in lots of >1000 | 06:59 |
| updateme | I know some people who have done startups with their own touch screen devices succesffuly | 07:00 |
| Hurrian | so unless we get ALL of TMO together, we're pretty stuck in the mud | 07:00 |
| updateme | But it seems there is a bottleneck other than hardware | 07:00 |
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| updateme | Like support, maybe | 07:00 |
| updateme | "yeah, Tmo, I've a nokia phone" "okay no problem, here's a sim" ....etc | 07:00 |
| Hurrian | good news though, as omap is very opensource friendly | 07:00 |
| Hurrian | xloader etc are freely available | 07:00 |
| Hurrian | oh right, the problem would be in a baseband | 07:01 |
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| Hurrian | transferring a nokia BB5 chip would be illegal wrt what IMEI really is | 07:01 |
| updateme | so | 07:01 |
| Hurrian | updateme, LOL SUPPORT | 07:01 |
| updateme | yeah | 07:02 |
| Hurrian | tmo's suddenly supporting devices not made by nokia | 07:02 |
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| Hurrian | anyways, that's beside the point | 07:02 |
| updateme | What is the point? | 07:02 |
| Hurrian | making the board | 07:02 |
| updateme | That doesn't seem like the bottleneck | 07:02 |
| Hurrian | then what is? | 07:03 |
| updateme | It seems like it would be easier to support and develop an OSS solution for the most powerful established phone/hardware out there already | 07:03 |
| updateme | instead of trying to build one from scratch | 07:03 |
| updateme | since they put their R&D into it, if it is open enough, then can't it be "hi-jacked"? | 07:03 |
| Hurrian | you mean linux? | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | see meego | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | +cordia | 07:04 |
| updateme | Spell it out please | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | MeeGo CE + Cordia UX | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | looks like Fremantly | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | *Fremantle | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | the only thing that makes the N900 shine is the multitasking | 07:04 |
| Hurrian | so why not take just that? | 07:05 |
| updateme | Take the n900? | 07:05 |
| updateme | I am/have one | 07:05 |
| Hurrian | take the user interface of the N900 | 07:05 |
| Hurrian | also known as fremantle's Hildon | 07:05 |
| Hurrian | put it on a linux distro with glibc and gtk+ | 07:06 |
| Hurrian | there, no more nokia dependency, plus we can use it on any phone | 07:06 |
| Hurrian | the problem is, what phones properly support meego | 07:06 |
| updateme | And it would have enough support to be a full smartphone OS on the n900 before the entire userbase starts using/supporting a new phone? | 07:06 |
| updateme | I have a feeling I'd rather use the n900 with meego than aara | 07:07 |
| Hurrian | updateme, would meego CE have enough support -- a widely accepted Fremantle replacement before only 2 N900s on Earth still work? | 07:07 |
| Hurrian | face it, a replacement OS is still just a replacement OS | 07:08 |
| Hurrian | the HTC HD2 is the ONLY exception to that rule | 07:08 |
| updateme | So what are you saying? | 07:08 |
| updateme | You support my argument and not yours? | 07:08 |
| updateme | lol | 07:08 |
| Hurrian | uh wut? | 07:08 |
| updateme | That's what I was hinting at - just a replacement OS | 07:08 |
| updateme | So you're in agreement | 07:08 |
| Hurrian | <Hurrian> the problem is, what phones properly support meego | 07:09 |
| Hurrian | i think we were agreeing before a slight language slip ;) | 07:09 |
| Hurrian | i mean, who's going to make a meego phone? | 07:09 |
| updateme | hmm | 07:09 |
| Hurrian | the world is on Android | 07:10 |
| Hurrian | there's a massive ecosystem there | 07:10 |
| updateme | indeed | 07:10 |
| updateme | N900 has advantages still | 07:10 |
| Hurrian | N900 has it's advantages for US people | 07:10 |
| updateme | some of them due to its openness, but at the same time is hurt significantly by not being open enough | 07:10 |
| Hurrian | not the other plebians | 07:10 |
| updateme | at first I read "united states" people | 07:11 |
| updateme | lol | 07:11 |
| Hurrian | a lot of people still treat their shiny new droid devices as toys | 07:11 |
| Hurrian | what do we do with our devices? | 07:11 |
| updateme | I treat my n900 as an expensive toy | 07:11 |
| Hurrian | massive disconnect there | 07:11 |
| updateme | haha | 07:11 |
| updateme | yeah, I agree | 07:11 |
| Hurrian | again, Mobile Computer vs Smartphone | 07:11 |
| Hurrian | there is a difference | 07:11 |
| updateme | but the gap seems small enough to close without much $$$ | 07:12 |
| updateme | like how much it is worth closing vs how much it costs to close | 07:12 |
| Hurrian | updateme, we'll never know | 07:12 |
| updateme | I'm an optimist I guess | 07:12 |
| Hurrian | the time that N900 was being sold, the N97 was being promoted out the wazoo | 07:12 |
| updateme | I just want an n900v2 | 07:13 |
| updateme | with a fully open OS | 07:13 |
| updateme | So I can go in and change senseless shit | 07:13 |
| Tronic | Why is fully open so important? | 07:14 |
| updateme | It isn't | 07:14 |
| updateme | just open enough to have options | 07:14 |
| Hurrian | the fact that the N95 didnt ship with Maemo proves that Nokia's an old man, afraid to take a leap of faith, to become young once more | 07:14 |
| jonwil | Unfortunatly, carriers and content partners HATE openness on phones | 07:14 |
| Hurrian | and now, they're filled with regret | 07:14 |
| Tronic | I agree that it is nice for software to be open so that you can fix those stupid annoyances. | 07:14 |
| updateme | maemo would keep up better for us if it were open | 07:15 |
| Tronic | Like TomTom car navigators that have shitloads of UI stupidity (mostly in the form of completely useless confirmation prompts) that would be trivial to remove if you had the source code. | 07:15 |
| updateme | fixing all the things that each of us care about | 07:15 |
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| Hurrian | from a technical standpoint, the N95(NAM) would've easily handled OS2007 | 07:16 |
| updateme | Or if the n900 were more open we could sort out more issues with the GPS functionality and replce our TomToms | 07:16 |
| Hurrian | updateme, GPS functionality is mostly because of the crappy antenna | 07:16 |
| updateme | Hurrian: although, it is pretty slow to boot and such on the n900 | 07:16 |
| updateme | Has anyone modded it? | 07:17 |
| updateme | I didn't know that *interested* | 07:17 |
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| Hurrian | updateme, only did external GPS mod on N95 | 07:17 |
| updateme | Also, I think, because it doesn't have a compass | 07:17 |
| updateme | so directionality doesn't work so well | 07:17 |
| Tronic | Btw, isn't N950 supposed to have a compass? | 07:17 |
| Tronic | Doesn't seem to be working in Maps yet :( | 07:17 |
| updateme | I'd care if I could get one | 07:18 |
| fusi | crikey, going from maemo42 to maemo46 just ate 10+mb of my rootfs | 07:18 |
| Hurrian | fusi, if rootfs isn't full, no need to worry | 07:18 |
| updateme | why don't you have 47, fusi? | 07:20 |
| updateme | yeah, turn by turn navigation would be so nice on the n900 | 07:20 |
| updateme | I run with tunes sometimes, and keeping that on during a long run would be fscking sick | 07:20 |
| updateme | "turn right" *hot surreal british chick voice* | 07:21 |
| Hurrian | updateme, arduino + compass shield + USB Hostmode + USB Serial Console + software | 07:21 |
| Hurrian | not the best solution, but it's a solution | 07:21 |
| updateme | it is a solution at home, but if someone wants to be able to have it in pocket or walking without breaking it, then not really | 07:22 |
| updateme | Sorry, I'm more of an elitist user than a dev | 07:23 |
| updateme | hope that can be appreciated | 07:23 |
| Hurrian | agreed | 07:24 |
| Hurrian | well, there isnt much space inside the n900's case for yet another PCB+wires | 07:24 |
| updateme | well, I'm unclear on what is wrong with the GPS antenna | 07:24 |
| Hurrian | it's rather tight from all the very thick plastic and metal cage | 07:24 |
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| updateme | Some of the issues I've dealt with lead me to believe it is partially software... Since some programs say they get signals more quickly than others | 07:25 |
| updateme | Surely, which is why n900v2 could pack it all in tighter and still have more features (moore's law etc) | 07:25 |
| fusi | 5:20 < updateme> why don't you have 47, fusi? | 07:26 |
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| fusi | not as stable i find | 07:27 |
| updateme | Ah, what part of it? | 07:27 |
| updateme | So you update manually instead of with 'the thing pops up'? | 07:27 |
| updateme | heh | 07:27 |
| fusi | :) | 07:27 |
| fusi | dsp overclocking seems unstable | 07:28 |
| fusi | is fine on 46 o_9 | 07:28 |
| updateme | what has dsp overclocking allowed you to do? | 07:28 |
| fusi | well, i dont :) | 07:29 |
| fusi | only the cpu | 07:29 |
| fusi | but i dont like the feeling | 07:29 |
| fusi | :p | 07:29 |
| updateme | Is it night and day? | 07:29 |
| updateme | I already change out my batteries every few hours when I'm carrying, so I don't need to be using anymore power anyway | 07:30 |
| fusi | ~80% @250mhz | 07:30 |
| fusi | get bout 28hrs avg use, just bought 2 of those scud batts :) | 07:31 |
| fusi | im off to bed | 07:31 |
| fusi | 5:30am :s | 07:31 |
| fusi | nn o/ | 07:31 |
| updateme | same, I carry 3 batteries with me where ever I go | 07:32 |
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| updateme | DocScrutinizer: have you tried any turn by turn GPS using the n900? | 07:39 |
| updateme | Also, do you know the the n900s GPS issues are limited by just one thing, or several? | 07:39 |
| updateme | Like, is it just a hardware antenna issue, or softare too, or what? | 07:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mappero and marble | 07:39 |
| rm_you | can three people vote for this please? | 07:40 |
| rm_you | http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pyradio/3.7/ | 07:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | and for me there are no GPS issues. AIUI those are limited to devices without SIM | 07:40 |
| rm_you | need to move it to extras already | 07:40 |
| updateme | mappero? | 07:41 |
| updateme | seriously, can I even get street names with that app? | 07:41 |
| updateme | I feel like I'm in the 90s using that app | 07:41 |
| updateme | I mean 'directions' rather | 07:42 |
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| joga | updateme: modrana does turn by turn | 07:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | joga: the question was if I have tested any. I only tested mappero and marble for turn by turn (voice) guidance | 07:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | monav backend even does offline routing for marble | 07:46 |
| updateme | I thought only sygic did turn by turn - at least that's how it was marketed..... as the only one that could | 07:46 |
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| jonwil | so there is a way to do turn-by-turn on the N900 for zero cost? | 07:48 |
| updateme | torrents | 07:49 |
| updateme | That's what I thought | 07:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | jonwil: marble | 07:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | voice of marble is ueber-new, as in "will arrive tomorrow" | 07:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | only English voice so far, contest for other lang still running | 07:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | or you use tomtom voicefiles, they are compatible | 07:53 |
| jonwil | where does Marble get maps from? | 07:53 |
| jonwil | OpenStreetMap? | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | OSM? | 07:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think you can config several map sources | 07:53 |
| updateme | DocScrutinizer: I heard a story about the cost of capacitive touch screens being based upon the transparent metal they're built with - do you know anything about this? | 07:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 07:55 |
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| updateme | man, there is so much crap and misinformation having to do with the pros and cons and functionalities of resistive and capactive touch screens | 07:57 |
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| * jonwil is surprised that the prediction of smartphones + free-as-in-no-cost nav software killing standalone GPS hasn't come to pass | 08:15 | |
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| updateme | jonwil: such easily solutions are possible too | 08:16 |
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| doc|home | early days | 08:16 |
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| jonwil | I think the problem is that the free-as-in-no-cost nav software isn't as good as TomTom/Garmin/etc | 08:17 |
| jonwil | and people question the accuracy of free vounteer-edited map data | 08:17 |
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| updateme | and rightly so | 08:19 |
| updateme | haha | 08:19 |
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| updateme | man, these test and extra apps never really work | 08:23 |
| updateme | just tried GeePS | 08:24 |
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| updateme | wow this is the best gps app I've tried hands down | 08:43 |
| updateme | on the n900 | 08:43 |
| updateme | can't scroll around quickly like you can on android, but I know know what causes that bottleneck... probably not the network though (since it would be the same datarate for map downloads) | 08:44 |
| joga | updateme: what is? | 08:46 |
| cehteh | try monav | 08:46 |
| cehteh | almost perfect routing, vector maps | 08:47 |
| joga | does it speak? | 08:47 |
| cehteh | soon | 08:47 |
| cehteh | christoph has already a private branch with speech support | 08:47 |
| joga | for now I think I'll use modrana, I like its interface | 08:48 |
| cehteh | http://monav.openstreetmap.de/ | 08:48 |
| cehteh | cloudgps is nicely smooth, but has no much functionality besides eye-candy | 08:49 |
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| x29a | argh, why on earth will scratchbox not work no more? it worked fine yesterday, now i get a "/usr/bin/apt-get: Accessing a corrupted shared library" when trying to install new software. fakeroot? the same... | 09:57 |
| ruskie | did you install something odd? | 09:59 |
| x29a | i used the sb-menu to "select" the arm target | 10:00 |
| ruskie | never used that iirc | 10:00 |
| x29a | i probably should have just selected it from the command line | 10:00 |
| ruskie | can still do it ;) | 10:01 |
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| x29a | ruskie: yah, tried it, but doesnt work, i think i must start from scratch | 10:04 |
| x29a | haha, no pun intended :( | 10:04 |
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| jiero | Anybody have a guide to hide X cursor ...? | 10:06 |
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| x29a | ruskie: ok, got it fixed, needed to go through the whole setup process (of sb-menu) again | 10:14 |
| x29a | anybody have an idea on how to get svn 1.6.x on scratchbox? | 10:14 |
| ruskie | last I checked you could use an older version with latest servers easily | 10:15 |
| ruskie | for checkouts iirc | 10:15 |
| x29a | its giving me a warning | 10:18 |
| x29a | svn: This client is too old to work with working copy 'myRepo'; please get a newer Subversion client | 10:18 |
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| ruskie | erm | 10:22 |
| ruskie | working copy? | 10:22 |
| ruskie | you copied in an already checked out working copy? | 10:22 |
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| x29a | yes, was i supposed to check out the repo again? | 10:25 |
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| ruskie | yup | 10:26 |
| x29a | ok, will try that after the ./configure run | 10:27 |
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| x29a | which maemo version does fremantle 1.3 correlate with? | 14:49 |
| x29a | or the other way: how do i verify i have fremantle 1.3? | 14:49 |
| psycho_oreos | osso-product-info | 14:50 |
| x29a | about product, i assume? | 14:50 |
| psycho_oreos | that's the other way | 14:50 |
| x29a | but there, the version states 20.2010.36-2 | 14:51 |
| x29a | ah ok, ima install your package | 14:51 |
| psycho_oreos | and you compare the output versus tablets-dev.nokia.com | 14:51 |
| x29a | good hint, thanks | 14:51 |
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| Arkenoi | how is xmpp messaging for telepathy called on n950? | 16:04 |
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| Robot101 | is there some way to stop the app manager looking for updates when I'm on roaming data? | 16:57 |
| psycho_oreos | you can't stop it, you can extend the time when HAM goes to check for updates | 16:58 |
| xkr47 | while :; do killall .. ; sleep 5 ; done :D | 16:58 |
| xkr47 | isn't there some "check for updates" checkbox anywhere ? :P | 16:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | HAM suck, that's it | 16:59 |
| psycho_oreos | yeah an ugly script would work | 16:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | you need to use this gconftool thing | 16:59 |
| psycho_oreos | there is check for updates box option if one has red pill enabled, however in my case unchecking that has no effect | 16:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | it reminds me of windows registry... | 16:59 |
| FIQ|n900 | <psycho_oreos> there is check for updates box option if one has red pill enabled, however in my case unchecking that has no effect | 17:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | red pill was disabled post-PR1.0? | 17:00 |
| FIQ|n900 | at least i can't access it anymore | 17:00 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, no its not disabled, its made slightly harder to enable | 17:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | oh | 17:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | i liked the previous way :D | 17:01 |
| FIQ|n900 | reminds me of cheatcodes in games lol | 17:01 |
| xkr47 | don't think it's enabled, know it's enabled | 17:01 |
| xkr47 | IDKFA | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | Robot101, http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Disabling_Auto_Updates_Check <-- here's one way | 17:02 |
| psycho_oreos | FIQ|n900, http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode#Activating <--- Re: red pill mode, manual method of activating | 17:03 |
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| edheldil | mbarcode somehow does not process MECARDs | 17:21 |
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| derf | edheldil: Process? | 17:29 |
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| derf | I'm not sure code was ever written to parse out the DoCoMo formats. | 17:30 |
| edheldil | well, it displays some helper in addition to the web search one, but it does not do anything visible when clicked | 17:31 |
| derf | Ah, I didn't even realize it did that much. | 17:32 |
| edheldil | "Open iMode MECARD data" | 17:33 |
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| LarsN | are any of you N900 users have bi-directional calendar sync via CalDav working in Maemo? | 17:48 |
| LarsN | s/are/do | 17:48 |
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| angelox|laptop | May i flash EMMC Image "RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin" using combined "RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin" ? | 17:59 |
| jacekowski | no | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | these are two different images | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | you have to flash both | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | or just combined | 18:00 |
| jacekowski | never flash emmc alone | 18:00 |
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| edheldil | LarsN: I need mere WebDAV + iCal. | 18:05 |
| edheldil | but no luck as well | 18:05 |
| LarsN | edheldil: I'm pretty sure I also have funambol available on our SOGo server. | 18:06 |
| LarsN | I guess I could grab the syncevolution client and give that a shot. | 18:07 |
| LarsN | I should likely backup my device, then flash / wipe it clean before starting | 18:07 |
| LarsN | it's full of failed attempts at this point. | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: isn't the queston a bit paradox? | 18:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: lease report any ambiguities or missing bits in | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 18:18 |
| infobot | well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | P*lease | 18:18 |
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| angelox|laptop | because i saw the numbers inside image name are different | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | notice: ~flashing is now -maemo-flashing | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: ooh, that doesn't matter | 18:21 |
| * ShadowJK wonders if ham would behave better with bindmounts instead of symlinks | 18:21 | |
| ShadowJK | because it definitely wasnt this bad in pr1.0 | 18:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: there's only been iirc 2 VANILLA files, but some 4 or 5 COMBINED files | 18:22 |
| angelox|laptop | yes,and old and that one | 18:22 |
| angelox|laptop | s/and/a/ | 18:22 |
| infobot | angelox|laptop meant: yes,a old and that one | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | always use freshest of both | 18:22 |
| angelox|laptop | Understood,thank you DocScrutinizer | 18:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yw | 18:23 |
| gri | Man, anyone ever used the projects.developer.nokia.com thingy? I got a "want to join project" request from some guy but the site has no option to write messages to anyone?!? | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ??? | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | gri: projects.developer.nokia.com feels like it's in beta state | 18:25 |
| gri | That's more than beta state | 18:25 |
| gri | or less, depends on how you see it :) | 18:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/projects.// | 18:26 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: gri: developer.nokia.com feels like it's in beta state | 18:26 |
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| gri | I'm deleting my source there and switch to gitorious, there people atleast have the chance to contact each other | 18:27 |
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| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, I'm wondering if they accidentally stat() the symlink instead of the intended file, and thus pop up "Checking for updates" constantly.. Also notable is that I never noticed the behaviour on PR1.0 brought to 1.3 through SSU, only on flashed-1.3.. | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that might be a reason why I'm missing what you're talking about | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | what popup "Checking for updtaes"? A hildon notifier? how often does that show? | 18:32 |
| LarsN | Has meego been progressing on the N900 or is it still primarily for playing around with? | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: seems to me I never seen such notifier - maybe coffee not yet kicked in | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | LarsN: best place: /join #meego-arm | 18:34 |
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| pauly | anyone want to sell their nokia n8? | 18:35 |
| angelox|laptop | i readed the warning "Never boot up the device between flashing the FIASCO image and the eMMC image",but i'm curious,why we can't do that? remembering,i wan't not to do,but i want know :) | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: though I "can not duplicate the issue", might it be related with updater process is closer checking the connectivity, so maybe the looking-for-update is triggered each time some connectivity state change happens? | 18:36 |
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| edheldil | angelox|laptop: I guess because there is not /usr or something like that | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: first-boot optifies a lot of binaries and files, means they get copied to /opt which will get erased on flashing VANILLA | 18:39 |
| edheldil | ah | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/copied/moved/ | 18:40 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: angelox|laptop: first-boot optifies a lot of binaries and files, means they get moved to /opt which will get erased on flashing VANILLA | 18:40 |
| angelox|laptop | ah ok,understood,thank you :) | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | angelox|laptop: that's why the foolproove way is to flash vanilla first, then combined, as then a intermediate accidental boot won't hurt | 18:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and an accidental boot is happening *really* easily, and esp "noobs" don't even notice it | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | plugging in USB to the device already makes it boot | 18:42 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, a "modal" progress bar in ham. Pops up when tapping download, pops up on returning to main menu, pops up on going to download again, etc | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaaaah that one | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, it feels a bit broken | 18:44 |
| ShadowJK | i dont think it was this broken before ham/apt data got optified | 18:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I hardly can recall that time | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | but probably you *could* flash PR1.0 and first eMMC image, and see what it's like there | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | stat64("/home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update", 0xbeb5d0a8) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 18:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | keep in mind though that extras wasn't enabled by default in PR1.0 | 18:47 |
| ShadowJK | i think enabling it was first thing I did after unboxing and setting clock | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah yes, that's more like it - as HAM ran into "not enough space on /" issues for all the cache and whatnot, it eventually changed to use eMMC to store those things | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | AIUI | 18:49 |
| ShadowJK | lol, i created that file, but ham wrote something to it and then deleted it | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while true; do chmod a-w /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update; ln /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update-STAY; done | 18:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or cp -l /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update-STAY | 18:52 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, actually it writes another file | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | instead ln | 18:52 |
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| ShadowJK | /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHAHA | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | the benefits of hardcoded strings in code, rather than using decent #define | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | or const | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't "/" == Shift+"-", on qwerty? | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | on 104-key qwerty normal kbd | 18:55 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: nope, on qwerty / is next to the right shift key | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: I guess you squished an age-old buf in HAM that made it suck so hard for all of us | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: that doesn't help to clarify my question | 18:57 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: no | 18:57 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: it's just / | 18:57 |
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: on UK layout | 18:57 |
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| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: I just answered <DocScrutinizer> isn't "/" == Shift+"-", on qwerty? | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: you did? | 18:58 |
| hiemanshu | DocScrutinizer: <hiemanshu> DocScrutinizer: nope, on qwerty / is next to the right shift key | 18:58 |
| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: and shift+- is _ | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, jacekowski answered it | 18:58 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, it didn't solve anything? | 18:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: HAM is open, no? | 18:59 |
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| ShadowJK | All I found was that it checks in /home/user first, then .hildon-application-manager/last-update, and deletes the one in user/ if it exists, or something | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd bet somebody used inline string constants in several locations, and occasionally used "/home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update" instead of "/home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update" | 19:01 |
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| fusi | ahoy | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Note that /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update looks definitely fishy | 19:02 |
| fusi | only need kernel-power-headers if devving on device right? | 19:02 |
| fusi | DocScrutinizer: i agree that path looks wrong | 19:02 |
| ShadowJK | it stats it twice, deletes it, then opens the "correct" file | 19:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | it stinks like typo, so terribly intense that I can sense it thru internet ;-) | 19:03 |
| fusi | hehe | 19:03 |
| fusi | typo sense is tingling | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | look, kids! That's why you define string (and other) constants in one location | 19:04 |
| fusi | helps with translation too | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's that friggin HAM source? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | mxr? | 19:05 |
| Robot101 | does anyone know why mutt doesn't work properly in osso-xterm? | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmmmm http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?find=/hildon-application-manager/&string=last-update | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ident?i=UFILE_LAST_UPDATE | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | YAY http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-application-manager/src/user_files.c#83 | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ^^^ | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | old_path = g_strdup_printf ("%s-%s", full_state_dir, name); | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly, smells like cruft | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-application-manager/src/user_files.c#44 looks fishy - or I'm not smart enough to see how smart it is | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err I'm not smart enough (unless I look a little closer) | 19:29 |
| fusi | what u lookin for Doc? | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | still this is all so incredibly convoluted | 19:29 |
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| xkr47 | if mkdir fails for some other reason than EEXIST, return failure.. | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | for a bug in HAM that makes it forget timestamp of last update as saved in either /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update or /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update | 19:30 |
| fusi | that code is fugly :( | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | xkr47: yup | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | fusi: extremely | 19:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | migration handling mixed into normal functions for even *reading* the file | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | all that old-fike/new-file cruft should go completely or at very least get called on HAM startup once | 19:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AIUI it's only needed to migrate from old HAM version to "new" HAM version, so exactly one time, and even then it's not really of much help | 19:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | tbh all this cruft with renaming /home/user/.hildon-application-manager-last-update to /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/last-update, creating /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/ dir etc - this should be done in HAM.deb postinstall | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | really insane to do it inside the program, *each time* you run HAM since PR1.1(?) | 19:37 |
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| Shapeshifter | so, is this busybox again or am I doing something wrong? ~ $ echo -n $(( 2>1 )); echo -n $(( 0>1 )); (( 0>1 )) && echo -n y; (( 2>1 )) && echo y | 19:38 |
| Shapeshifter | 10yy | 19:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: what's that?? | 19:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | looks terrible | 19:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | why do both 0 and 1 resolve as true when coming from (( ))? | 19:40 |
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| Shapeshifter | (( 0>1 )) && echo y should'nt print anything | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | $(( 2>1)) evaluates to "1" in my book, $((0>1)) is completely weird I'd think, and wtf is >> echo -n y; (( 2>1 )) <<?? | 19:41 |
| Shapeshifter | huh? | 19:42 |
| fusi | whats this in | 19:42 |
| Shapeshifter | what are you talking about. | 19:42 |
| fusi | c? | 19:42 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: first I'm printing the two, hence the $(()), then I'm using them as tests, hence no $ | 19:43 |
| fusi | afaik the compiler will only evaluatethe first conditional with && | 19:43 |
| fusi | ooh bash | 19:43 |
| fusi | nvm | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo -n $(( 0>1 )) -->0 | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | echo -n $(( 2>1 )); -->1 | 19:44 |
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| fusi | ja | 19:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | $ echo -n $?; (( 2>1 )); echo $? | 19:44 |
| Shapeshifter | 00 | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | but what is >> echo -n y; (( 2>1 )) << meant to do? | 19:44 |
| Shapeshifter | uh wait | 19:44 |
| Shapeshifter | $ (( 0>1 )); echo -n $?; (( 2>1 )); echo $? | 19:45 |
| Shapeshifter | 00 | 19:45 |
| Shapeshifter | here | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: the whole thing looks completely meaningless to me | 19:45 |
| fusi | hehe | 19:45 |
| Shapeshifter | the return values of both are 0 | 19:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# $ (( 0>1 )); | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | /bin/ash: syntax error: unexpected "(" (expecting ")") | 19:46 |
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| fusi | switch the conditions around, do both outputs become 1 | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | ]$ (( 0>1 )); echo -n $?; (( 2>1 )); echo $? | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | 10 | 19:46 |
| Shapeshifter | here's the same in bash on my pc | 19:46 |
| fusi | if they do ur not assigning the second one correctly? | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF is ((2>1)) ????? | 19:47 |
| mgedmin | if you need to compare numbers, what's wrong with the good old POSIX [ 0 -gt 1 ] ? | 19:47 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: a test if 2 is bigger than 1 | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | with (( ? | 19:47 |
| Shapeshifter | (( )) is like [[ ]] for numbers | 19:47 |
| Shapeshifter | yes | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 19:47 |
| fusi | could just write 1 :p | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, not feeling like obfuscated bash contest | 19:48 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: just try (( 0>1 )); echo -n $?; (( 2>1 )); echo $? in both ash and bash. | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | why? | 19:48 |
| Shapeshifter | why is it obfuscated, it's completely normal | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's nonsense | 19:48 |
| Shapeshifter | why | 19:49 |
| fusi | im not saying anything lol | 19:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | echo "10" | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | done | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no defined purpose of this whole exercise | 19:50 |
| Shapeshifter | what? | 19:50 |
| fusi | i get 01 too | 19:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | mywiki.wooledge.org/ArithmeticExpression | 19:52 |
| fusi | one can only assume ash lacks some of the functionaliy required to correcrlt parse that statement | 19:53 |
| fusi | as the outputs are different | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | is it even POSIX? | 19:53 |
| fusi | 00 under ash, 10 under bash | 19:53 |
| fusi | no idea tbh | 19:53 |
| Shapeshifter | I just wonder what DocScrutinizer meant | 19:54 |
| fusi | prolly that this stuff is somewhere in the ash documentation maybe | 19:55 |
| fusi | cant speak for Doc :) | 19:55 |
| mgedmin | I think DocScrutinizer's point was "please give us your real use case, not a toy example of comparing two integers where we already know the answer" | 19:55 |
| fusi | anyweh i need a reboot | 19:56 |
| fusi | tally bai | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: exactly | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | missing the whole point | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's well known that bash behaves differently to ash, that's why we use bash whenever we can | 19:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more so for using rather strange unusual syntax | 19:57 |
| GNUtoo|laptop | yes bash is better, specially with ctrl+r but ash is included in busybox | 19:57 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah, I was just asking about this. and I wasn't aware that this is strange or unusual syntax as I've encountered it plenty of times | 19:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | actually I learned it from #bash in the first place | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never heard of (( | 19:58 |
| ruskie | doesn't busybox have a broken ash? | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 19:58 |
| mgedmin | broken how? | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 19:58 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 19:58 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: now you have \o/ | 19:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't expect messybox shell understand all the more exotic syntax elements bash knows to handle | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | when debian switched /bin/sh from bash to dash, there were lots of cries of pain | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp calling subshells in messybox shell isn't exactly what you'd think it is | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | but people learned to write shell scripts that only depend on POSIX shell features, or correctly specify #!/bin/bash when they use bash-only extensions | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: the problem is messybox still replaces all the coreutils etc by useless crippled broken versions | 20:02 |
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| mgedmin | yeah, it's a pain | 20:02 |
| mgedmin | especially for interactive use | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | 100% | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the whole idea to use messybox for interactive is so ill-minded... :-( | 20:03 |
| mgedmin | (I don't think interactive shell usage was a big use case in the designer's minds when they were designing a *phone*) | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and debian seems have lost their mind | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | Debian uses bash for interactive shells, in case you got confused | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | they switched to dash is for shell scripts because it's much faster | 20:04 |
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| mgedmin | it sped up things like ./configure and /etc/init.d/* | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for init dash/messybox is perfect | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you ponder editing the initscripts ;-P | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | lennart pottering would disagree :) | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | and suggest rewriting everything in C | 20:05 |
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| * Tronic <3 systemd | 20:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: you're aware fremantle enetered bootloop when replacing busybox by a decent shell plus coreutils, as the busybox syntax was not compatible to "regular" bash & corutils results | 20:07 |
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| mgedmin | I heard about problems from installing bash, never knew the details | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's where busybox shell (incl all the builtin) is actually broken | 20:07 |
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| mgedmin | interesting; I assumed ash supported a strict subset of bash features | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it doesn't | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | some cmds behave incompatible | 20:08 |
| ruskie | dash can be taken as a reasonable posix shell | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | (don't ask me about details, freudian slip) | 20:08 |
| ruskie | ash from busybox... useless for everything | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ruskie: ACK | 20:09 |
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| Tronic | I have a dream and in it is a Linux system with no shell scripts nor even a shell installed. Avoids the tcsh vs. bash war too. | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | Tronic, how can I ssh into it if it doesn't have a shell? | 20:10 |
| ruskie | bash for scripting zsh for interactive FTW | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | what use is a Linux system if I can't ssh into it? | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | go for firefox OS then ;-P | 20:11 |
| ruskie | mgedmin, well you can do things like someone did it... used python for init and shell | 20:11 |
| mgedmin | sounds awkward | 20:11 |
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| ruskie | well his system was rather hosed at the time | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I bet it was - ROTFL | 20:12 |
| Shapeshifter | maybe do it in lua, be original | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | excel with adobe extensions for kernel!!! | 20:13 |
| ruskie | or ruby or perl or brainf*ck | 20:13 |
| Tronic | mgedmin: X forwarding and run a desktop. | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | whitespace! what a nice *CLEAN* system | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 20:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, o/ | 20:14 |
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| RST38h | http://lurkmore.ru/images/e/ef/Attention_Norway.png | 20:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | texrat -> "Champion of the Month: Randy Arnold" | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | recent Nokia developers newsletter | 20:35 |
| RST38h | What is a "champion"? | 20:35 |
| RST38h | Champion of what? What has he done? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, dunno | 20:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I gather it's something pleasant | 20:36 |
| RST38h | like? | 20:36 |
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| slonopotamus | GPG error: https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Release: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY ADB4438160A655EF | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | isn't this a warning? | 21:19 |
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| slonopotamus | DocScrutinizer: "GPG error" doesn't look like a warning | 21:21 |
| slonopotamus | btw, diablo repo is in same state for 2 years approx already :) | 21:21 |
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| ShadowJK | any bugreport filed? | 21:28 |
| slonopotamus | against diablo? sure, in 2009 | 21:29 |
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| ShadowJK | seems it's nonfatal anyway, just disabled all repos (including@ovi) except for Nokia*, and was able to install dataviz | 21:33 |
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| Sicelo | ~hostmode-charging | 21:36 |
| infobot | it has been said that hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 | 21:36 |
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| Sicelo | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-26.log.html#t2011-07-26T14:14:33 | 21:56 |
| Sicelo | my evince install does save position :/ | 21:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 22:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: aah, ok. Well probably evince actually does. seems arkenoi wasn't talking particularly about evince, but about any pdf reader that does both fullscreen and save pos | 22:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sicelo: and why :/ ? | 22:05 |
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| Sicelo | no particular reason.. guess i misunderstood him | 22:06 |
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| Tsuyo | Hay, is there a way to change the Wlan settings via dbus? | 22:58 |
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| Shapeshifter | ruskie: is your repo down? https://repo.codemages.net/ | 23:19 |
| ruskie | hmm | 23:20 |
| ruskie | shouldn't be | 23:20 |
| ruskie | it doesn't do an index though | 23:20 |
| Shapeshifter | ruskie: ah okay. | 23:20 |
| ruskie | hmm | 23:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | ruskie: mh. on your wiki page, rxvt-unicode is not listed as in your repo. Is it still there? if yes, how can I download your source package without using apt? | 23:21 |
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| ruskie | hmm I don't have all sources | 23:22 |
| ruskie | it's basically just a rebuild of the debian package | 23:22 |
| Shapeshifter | ruskie: I wondered about that, since I can't find a debian package that doesn't have dependencies which are way beyond what maemo has. | 23:23 |
| ruskie | don't think I modified it at all | 23:23 |
| ruskie | hmm | 23:23 |
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| ruskie | what is there that shouldn't be? | 23:23 |
| ruskie | note I'm not really using it | 23:23 |
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| ruskie | hmm I might have just ignored the deps | 23:24 |
| ruskie | it was an early package | 23:24 |
| Shapeshifter | ruskie: well even the lenny package http://packages.debian.org/lenny/rxvt-unicode requires libc >=2.7 for example, whereas maemo has 2.5.1. | 23:25 |
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| ruskie | Depends: libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1) <-- that's in mine | 23:25 |
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| ruskie | though sadly I don't have the sources anywhere anymore | 23:26 |
| Shapeshifter | yeah that sounds about right. I can't find any older debian packages than the lenny one which requires newer stuff. | 23:26 |
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| Shapeshifter | ah wait, I found http://snapshot.debian.org/package/rxvt-unicode/ | 23:27 |
| ruskie | deb-src http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/debian/ etch main <-- that's what I have in my apt | 23:27 |
| Shapeshifter | ruskie: do you remember which urxvt version you compiled? | 23:27 |
| ruskie | that's easy ;) | 23:27 |
| ruskie | rxvt-unicode_7.9-2_armel.deb | 23:28 |
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| Shapeshifter | ruskie: thanks | 23:28 |
| ruskie | note though that changing the depend version is easy anyway | 23:29 |
| ruskie | I highly doubt that rxvt-unicode requires anything from a more recent glibc | 23:29 |
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| Shapeshifter | I see what happens. I'm quite clueless but my goal is having perl support. | 23:30 |
| ruskie | ahh | 23:30 |
| ruskie | basically you can edit debian/control file and adjust the dep versions there | 23:31 |
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| mase76 | hi! anybody there, who can help me? | 23:33 |
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| mase76 | i have problems with my mac address. | 23:36 |
| mase76 | it changes every reboot. | 23:36 |
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| Shapeshifter | Mh. Is there some other way to unpack a .deb other than ar? | 23:41 |
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| mgedmin | yes | 23:41 |
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| mgedmin | dpkg-deb -x filename.deb targetdir/ | 23:42 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: yes? I can't find any other way, everyone's suggesting ar on google. Or dpkg -x but that doesn't extract the control files. | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | for manual peeking I like mc, which lets me enter and view a deb's contents when I press Enter on it | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | dpkg-deb -e | 23:42 |
| mgedmin | will extract control files | 23:42 |
| mase76 | no idea for my mac problem? | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | dpkg -e/-x is the same as dpkg-deb -e/-x | 23:43 |
| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: ah thank you | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | for the record, I'd no clue about these options other than a strong suspicion that they must exist | 23:43 |
| mgedmin | so I read the dpkg man page :) | 23:43 |
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| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: which doesn't exist on the n900 :( But yeah I could have googled the man page. thank you. | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | oh, your main computer is not a linux box? | 23:44 |
| Shapeshifter | oh wait. I installed the man-db on the n900. I forgot. | 23:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: yes it is, but it doesn't use deb packaging. | 23:44 |
| mgedmin | hm, but fbreader creates a new ZLQtPaintContext in paintEvent() | 23:48 |
| mgedmin | so it can't be using an old pixmap | 23:48 |
| mgedmin | or does it? | 23:49 |
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| mgedmin | no, I'm wrong, it uses a long-lived paint context | 23:50 |
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| Shapeshifter | mh. How do I tell dpkg-deb to use /usr/bin/gnu/tar instead of busybox gnu? dpkg-deb -b gives me a funny error, tar: unrecognized option `--format=gnu' BusyBox blablabla | 23:51 |
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| mase76 | unloading and loading the wifi module causes the mac change. | 23:53 |
| mgedmin | Shapeshifter, try PATH=/usr/bin/gnu:$PATH dpkg-deb ... | 23:56 |
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| Shapeshifter | mgedmin: thanks, that worked. didn't think of PATH... | 23:56 |
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