IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-07-26

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X-FadeMohammadAG: No, he doesn't even have admin there.00:00
X-FadeNor do I for that matter.00:00
MohammadAGmy profile took a stroll, that's the only explanation :P00:00
PaliDocScrutinizer: and do you know how bme get capacity percentage?00:00
DocScrutinizerby magic ;-D00:00
X-FadeMohammadAG: And meego.com accounts have never worked there, they are separate.00:00
DocScrutinizeror call it wild guessing :-)00:01
DocScrutinizerPali: actually nobody knows how bme does the calculation of capacity, but it's known to yield rather incoherent results00:01
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MohammadAGPali, three shots of vodka and division of two random numbers00:02
DocScrutinizer:->00:02
Paliok :)00:02
Paliproblem with bq is that ILMD is not set correctly?00:03
MohammadAGX-Fade, weird, must've been me then :P00:03
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MohammadAGshould start drinking coffee methinsk00:03
DocScrutinizerfor bq27200 however the algo is absolutely clear and documented and you *can* understand what's going on, and get a decent notion about whether the values are good or not00:03
MohammadAGX-Fade, any ideas how to create a public repo that everyone can access?00:03
ShadowJKpali: yes, it,s set for 2000+ mAh battery00:03
DocScrutinizerPali: basically, yes00:03
DocScrutinizer205600:04
DocScrutinizerwhile it should be 135000:04
ShadowJK1300 would be sane00:04
DocScrutinizerwhatever00:04
X-FadeMohammadAG: Your home repo is open.00:05
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Paliin datasheet is written that ILMD register is R/W00:05
Palidid somebody try to rewrite it?00:06
DocScrutinizerbtw about build.pub.meego.com login: EEEEK JS00:06
ShadowJKYou need 40V or something to erase the eeprom00:06
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DocScrutinizer18V ?00:06
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ShadowJKwhich is not available on n90000:06
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: the relevant oins are NC and reachable00:06
ShadowJKI forget exactly what, but it was alot more than 5V :)00:06
DocScrutinizer*pins00:07
MohammadAGX-Fade, can anyone push to it?00:07
X-FadeMohammadAG: Yes, but you need to accept it of course.00:08
DocScrutinizersratch my JS comment, when JS is disabled, it works just as expected00:09
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X-FadeMohammadAG: But anybody can do a SR to our project home.00:09
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PaliDocScrutinizer: I did not read full bq datasheet, but there is really no way how to decrease/fix LMD?00:16
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khertanX-Fade, anyway it doesn't seems to be blocking00:17
DocScrutinizerno, except doing a learning cycle00:17
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Paliand how to do correct learning cycle?00:17
DocScrutinizerwhich means fully charging battery, then discharge to some 3200mV00:17
DocScrutinizerdepending on bme's mod you'll need to stop bme or your device will shit down before even reaching 3200mV00:18
DocScrutinizermood*00:18
DocScrutinizerI keep the shit down :-P00:19
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Paliok00:19
DocScrutinizerCI = 1 says you never had a valid learning cycle during the last 30 cycles00:20
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DocScrutinizercycles total is number of cycles since battery insert, and there's also "number of cycles since last valid learning cycle" (OWTTE)00:20
PaliCycle Count since Learning: 1 Total Cycle Count since last full reset: 100:21
DocScrutinizer:nod:00:21
DocScrutinizeryou managed to do a valid learning cycle on your first cycle after inserting battery.00:22
DocScrutinizerDo another 4 or 5 and your LMD will slowly approach reasonable values00:22
ShadowJKNo, if those two are same number, means no learning cycle has taken place00:22
DocScrutinizerooops, right00:23
DocScrutinizerthen CI = 100:23
ShadowJKyes00:23
DocScrutinizerCI means "Calculations Invalid"00:23
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DocScrutinizerPali: the crux with bq27200 is it's never been meant to be detachable from battery cell00:24
DocScrutinizer*should* sit in battery pack, not in device00:25
SpeedEvilAnd it's meant to be setup so that the voltage at termination is set to 6% below the 'low' state00:25
SpeedEvilSo it's wrong00:25
DocScrutinizerthat's why each removal of battery completely resets and messes up things00:25
SpeedEvilAs it doesn't learn00:26
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: indeed00:26
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MohammadAGX-Fade, can acceptance be scripted?00:26
ShadowJKCharge full. Check vdq=1. Use phone until bme gives battery low. Dont charge. When bme gives battery low, 'stop bme', check vdq=1. './bq27200 5' in an xterm to monitor stuff. When voltage goes below 3248, EDV1 column should turn to 1, if VDQ was 1, a learning cycle completes. Insert charger (a functioning original wallcharger, no shitty usbs) , 'start bme', screen turns off, some jogging of lock slider brings it back.00:26
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DocScrutinizerwell, actually it depends on bme's mood as mentioned above00:26
MohammadAGpoint is, having a home similar to -devel00:26
MohammadAGno QA, all packages in one place00:26
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: prepare for bashing :-D00:27
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DocScrutinizer""will you accept now!!! lazy lad!""00:27
Paliok, thanks for info00:27
DocScrutinizerPali: yw00:27
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DocScrutinizerPali: question: what's status of PK47? regarding e.g iso9660 kernel drivers for hostmode00:28
ShadowJKLMD 1227, cycle count since learning 7, cycle count since last reset 152 :)00:28
PaliCONFIG_ISO9660_FS=m00:29
PaliCONFIG_JOLIET=y00:29
PaliX-Fade: Do you know where is problem why kernel-power is not shown in maemo.org package interface?00:31
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kerioDocScrutinizer: ?00:32
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DocScrutinizersorry for the noise00:33
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DocScrutinizerPali: thanks00:35
PaliI'd like to release v48, but I have some problems with rebooting and problem with maemo.org/packages (it does not see v47)00:36
SpeedEvilShadowJK: 1174/3/28 - If this was the 'real' capacity it'd be fine, but impedence is a problem (I need to kill BME or it keeps beeping almost after I uplug it from the charger00:37
ShadowJKYeah I have a battery measuring 1054mAh, low cycle count, it mostly sat empty in my spare N900 for half a year.00:38
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: this is kown to kill LiIon00:39
DocScrutinizeryou can bin it right away00:39
ShadowJKIt was 4.2V when I put it in, a month later it lit up emergency charge led :)00:39
ShadowJKparasitic drain in "off" seems somewhat high :s00:40
DocScrutinizerN900 seems to not always exactly switch off completely00:40
DocScrutinizertoo many subsystems without a proper main breaker switch to kill them00:40
ShadowJKYeah, MeeGo switched off seems to drain battery in <24h00:41
DocScrutinizerLOL00:41
DocScrutinizercool shit man00:41
DocScrutinizerI guess modem still in stanbay while main APE off00:42
DocScrutinizerstandby00:42
DocScrutinizero.O00:42
DocScrutinizerbye00:42
DocScrutinizero/00:42
ShadowJKProblem is it lasts longer when switched ON than when switched off...00:42
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PaliDocScrutinizer: What is status of project jrbme?00:49
DocScrutinizerbasically binned00:49
DocScrutinizerthere's no real win in implementing all the crap so it would integrate nicely and keep the rest of system working00:50
DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1006716&postcount=80600:51
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ShapeshifterDocScrutinizer: thanks for the modest hints00:54
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chem|styawn00:59
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* SpeedEvil notes that the 'seeekrit IP' in BME doesn't inclue anything that notices it's bootlooping ue to power starvation, and bump up the threshold 50mV01:08
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DocScrutinizerthere IS NO secret IP in BME, it's simply a system maintained by subcontractors and Nokia has neither (C) nor inhouse competence about it. My 2 cents01:09
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DocScrutinizerand those who actually had a look at it and told me about it claimed it "makes your eyes bleed"01:11
SpeedEvilyes01:11
SpeedEvilI know.01:11
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DocScrutinizerwhich is plausible ( quote mythbusters ) regarding it acesses some register #48 of a chip that only has some 5 or 6 registers01:12
DocScrutinizeractually I think bme works by mere incisence01:13
DocScrutinizerincidence*01:13
DocScrutinizerand maybe Nokia even got it independently evaluated and then got an assurance against all doom that might arise from LiIon cells, so this would at least explain why they are completely horrified about anybody touching it01:15
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DocScrutinizeror, even more plausible, the cell manufacturer made this bme and also took responsibility about the bme&cell system behaving01:17
DocScrutinizerwhich also would explain why fremantle bme seems designed to reduce lifetime of battery ;-D01:18
DocScrutinizerharmattan bme is way more sane it this regard01:19
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fusi^ very interesting stuff03:57
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fusimy batt apparently holds 1309mah when full..03:57
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SpeedEvilfusi: It learns at a maximum of 1/8th per clcle04:03
SpeedEvilSo if it's learned up or down 1/8th from ILMD - don't believe it04:03
DocScrutinizer1309 sounds absolutely sane04:04
SpeedEvilyeah04:05
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fusionly tak emy battery out when i get really angry at it :p04:05
DocScrutinizerlol04:06
fusiim like RIGHT you deserve this!04:06
fusihehe04:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: pondering about a script that monitors bq27200, tears down bme just in time to hinder it shutting down system, then continue monitoring bq27200 until learning cycle complete, and re-enabling bme04:09
SpeedEvilI question the point04:10
DocScrutinizererrr, isn't that obvious? :-)04:11
SpeedEvilIn practice - just remember when it hits LMD (of your code) + BMEthreshold+20mV04:11
SpeedEvilThen learn LMD (bq) -NAC = real capacity04:11
DocScrutinizersure, but that's not taking care about one time calibration of bq04:11
SpeedEvilIndeed.04:12
DocScrutinizeronly works if you're running this script of yours constantly04:12
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SpeedEvilSo does the BME teardown script04:12
DocScrutinizerwhile mine just takes care about automatic calibration run that otherwise needs attendance04:13
SpeedEvilah04:13
DocScrutinizerit's a one-shot thing04:13
SpeedEvilOr B)04:13
DocScrutinizerB) is?04:14
SpeedEvilPoke jonwil to haxxor BME to get it to turn off at 3148mV04:14
SpeedEvilNo script needed - just works04:14
DocScrutinizerhahaha exactly what I pondered 10 min ago, though I didn't think exactly about jonwil04:14
DocScrutinizeryeah04:15
DocScrutinizerI already tried to figure what doom might come from this - worst case04:15
DocScrutinizerunadvertised modem shutdown?04:16
SpeedEvilthat hits at 2940 or so I think04:16
SpeedEvilDropping the voltage 50mV or so leaves plenty of margin04:17
SpeedEvilIt's already marginal that it will occasionally learn04:17
DocScrutinizeryeah, my thoughts04:17
DocScrutinizeractually it does here04:17
DocScrutinizerI think it depends on load, and Z of cell04:17
SpeedEvilIt would also be nice if the voltage where it comes out of ACT_DEAD coul be bumped up a few millivolts too04:18
DocScrutinizerhaha04:18
DocScrutinizerI actually forgot about a few of the goty details of flatbatrecover internals04:19
DocScrutinizermessing with mce.ini for different color for breating light and charging light already helps a lot to understand what's really going on04:20
SpeedEvilI just want someone to come up with a nice fuelcell04:20
SpeedEvilThat I can feed my phone sugarcubes.04:20
DocScrutinizeryoh04:20
DocScrutinizerI'd feed it vodka04:20
DocScrutinizer10 drops for N900, rest for me ;-D04:21
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GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, what happens when you get so many interests you run out of room on your avatar?04:22
DocScrutinizerthere *are* nice fuelcells (though still not the sice of a BL-5J yet), alas not available for mere mortals. Strictly military and costs more than gold04:23
DocScrutinizersize*04:23
SpeedEvilyes.04:23
SpeedEvilSame as I found some truly awesome Li-Ion - specced for 10K charge/discharge cycles04:23
SpeedEvilSAFT - and no, you can't buy them.04:24
DocScrutinizerwell, alkaline also was available for military exclusively for a few years04:24
nox-crazy04:24
DocScrutinizerand DAMN I think the first alkaline were SAFT?!? .oO(???)04:24
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DocScrutinizerhttp://www.saftbatteries.de/04:31
ShadowJKI was toying with the idea of a calibration script that worked kinda like laptop battery calibration procedure. Connect charger, script charges battery full, turns off charger, turns on screen, waits until learning threshold, turns on again04:33
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: http://www.campingplus.de/wbc.php?sid=752637913cd&pid=8211&tpl=produktdetail.html04:38
DocScrutinizer25W 6.5kg04:39
SpeedEvilLeetle heavy.04:39
SpeedEvil39dB@1m!04:40
DocScrutinizererr well, they might get better fans ;-P04:41
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MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, expand, get bigger avatars!!!05:11
MohammadAGSimplify the existing avatar, windows phone 7 logo05:11
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Primeshello, I bought a Nokia N900 this week05:13
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, ooh, resolution independence.05:13
GeneralAntillesgood thinking.05:13
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PrimesHi generalA, I was at a presentation on making HTML5 web apps usable by smartphones today, in the authors code, he was querying the pixel width and dpi of the device, to decide either mobile or not, and if a retina display of iphone4 use double rez bitmaps. Of course he should give the best bitmaps to the N900 too, it has the width! Anyway, my purpose here was to ask about microSD cards05:15
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PrimesFrom what I read, the N900 supports the SDHC standard cards in micro size. It seems to say 16GB maximum, whereas the standard specifies up to 32GB and cards are available. Was it just that when the docs were written nobody released a 32GB card yet, or is there some technical reason that 32GB cards isn't supported?05:18
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jieroPrimes: technically not supported.05:22
jieroPrimes:  I  watched Transformer 3 recently, and felt bad about the betrayal ....05:23
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jieroPrimes: firsly I didn't realize what Prime means and then I remember the translation was quite similar to it - all 他和05:24
jieroHi, is N950/N9 application able to run on N900 with Meego 1.2 community edition05:26
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ShadowJKPrimes, there were no 32G cards available when the docs were written. 32GB cards are supported. Kingston cards (and relatives of Kingston) are glitchy05:31
Primeshi jiero as I understand, I think it should run, but the 1.2 community/developer edition for now looks quite basic (from youtube videos).05:31
PrimesI will run meego as soon as I buy my microSD card to install it on, hence my question about sizes of card 32 > 16GB of course ;-)05:31
ShadowJKHarmattan has APIs and things that don't exist in real MeeGo05:31
jieroomg, It support 32GB?05:32
ShadowJKsure05:32
PrimesThanks shadowjk, I will try avoid the Kingston05:32
ShadowJKThere's a kernel patch on talk.maemo.org somewhere that makes the Kingston cards behave05:32
jierothanks.05:32
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jieroI hope Meego could run on internal card which run faster, it seems.05:34
ShadowJKWell you can for sure get slower MicroSD cards, most Class 10s for example, but you can also get faster MicroSD cards, mostly in the Class 4 and Class 6 range05:35
PrimesIt's recommended to use card class 6 ie min 6 MB/sec write. I don't know the comparative speed of the internal flash?05:35
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ShadowJKiirc the internal is sandisk or samsung/toshiba, it doesn't have a class rating as it isn't *sdhc, but if it was, knowing the manufacturer, it'd probably be rated as class 2 or class 405:36
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casketizeranyone have a binary for ircII (N900) ?05:37
ShadowJKthere's on for irssi in the repos, iirc...05:37
PrimesSo, I know how to install u-boot. This will boot maemo if there is no meego SD installed, but if there is it boots meego. Is it possible to select manually on boot? The guy who used some different bootloader with debian arm, or the NITdroid project seemed maybe to use different method eg keyboard out or not selects boot OS05:37
casketizeryea i know05:37
casketizerim lookin for ircii tho05:38
ShadowJKPrimes, type "run noloboot" on start and it boots maemo05:38
casketizergonna try debian package, cant do much harm with 44mb free rootfs05:38
Primesyes shadow I had read that online. However I was preferring something more like my desktop linux/win dualboot, it let's me select the OS from a menu, or times out to boot the default05:39
ShadowJKI'd get 4G card anyway, they're cheap, and if you end up with a superslow one it's not too expensive to get another brand/model to try again05:39
PrimesThe 16GB cards are reasonable, maybe the sweetspot eg Adata , PNY, Samsung? The 32GB are more than twice the price. However, I also have a local source of used ones that I don't think will have been hammered to much. So used 32GB is similar price to new 16GB, making it tempting05:41
ShadowJKhttp://www.sakoman.com/OMAP/microsd-card-perfomance-test-results.html05:41
* SpeedEvil wishes again for 'raw mode' microSD05:42
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ShadowJKindeed05:42
jierointernal flash speed at 20mb/s05:43
ShadowJKsequential speeds aren't that relevant05:44
jieroo its 20mbits...05:44
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PrimesIt seems different manufacturers measured the speed differently too. Some took the read speed rather than the write, some took the write speed when new, others took the write speed under maximally fragmented situation that it would degrade to.05:45
cehtehif you need performance, dont buy noname .. and kingston is noname :P05:45
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Primesfor storing camera photos sequential is the usage. Running an OS, there will be more random05:45
ShadowJKlook at that link, the Class 10 Patriots that do 7Mbyte/s write 19Mbyte/s read take 6000 seconds to boot this guy's operating system. On the other hand, the Sandisk Class 2 with 4M write 10M read boots it in 1800 seconds.05:45
cehtehyeah05:45
casketizeri found most class 10 cards a frauds. i have serveral class 6 cards that are equal or even faster. fastest card i own is a hama 16gb class 6 doing 8-9mb write and 19mb read. i use it for swap now05:46
cehtehsandisk samsung trancend are names05:46
casketizera=are05:46
ShadowJKPrimes, the cheap ones just run whatever benchmark program that reviewers use, and slap class rating according to that. It's not correct if you look at the definition of class rating, but nobody cares because class is only relevant for digital cameras05:46
cehtehhama is extremely noname :P they just buy and rebrand what they could get, if you are lucky thes found a good charged which dropped on the floor05:47
casketizeri have a sandisk cls 10 which is significantly slower05:47
ShadowJKSandisk doesn't make a class 10 microsdhc05:47
ShadowJK(by extension, if you have one, it's fake)05:47
casketizerhama used to be lowend shit05:47
Primesyes, nobody validates it externally so they claim what they choose to market it as05:47
ShadowJKPrimes, it can not be validated externally05:47
cehtehclass ratings only tell about sequential write speeds .. nothing about random, nothing about reads05:47
ShadowJKBecause you need knowledge of the internal workings of the card05:48
ShadowJKclass rating is not a benchmark result.05:48
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casketizerthe sandisk is a semi-prototype05:48
cehteheven if the class rating is accurate for using it as disk to boot some OS its completely unrelated05:48
PrimesI mean there is no independent certification authority to make the ratings comparable directly, it's just an indication now05:48
casketizeru cant buy it05:48
Primestrue cehteh05:48
ShadowJKSandisk also stopped printing class rating on their microsdhc :-)05:49
casketizeri got it at an expo on the sandisk booth05:49
casketizerthat was when i had n95 still05:49
casketizerso few years ago05:49
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ShadowJKPrimes, by their nature the class rating is not comparable to determine average expected performance05:50
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casketizeri have a brand new sandisk here which has class rating05:50
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casketizerclass 405:50
Primeshowever , one might infer a loose correlation.05:50
cehtehnot really see the results on that page05:50
ShadowJKThe definition is: *minimum* *sequential write* in the *best case*. This is somewhat of a contradiction in itself :-)05:50
Primeslol, and those ratings are roundings, so I prefer to see some actual MB/sec ratings05:51
cehtehand thats the most uncommon access pattern when you boot and run a OS from it05:51
ShadowJKPrimes, more over, these ratings are *minimums*05:51
cehtehPrimes: it wont be static, depending on the wear leveling implementation05:51
ShadowJKnot "it'll go this fast"05:52
cehtehand access patterns05:52
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Primesyes, at one time Sandisk had the best wear levelling, perhaps others are catching up now05:52
cehtehone day you can write 6mb/s the next only only 4.5MB/sec05:52
ShadowJKit's "I need it to go as fast as X, if it doesn't, my video camera specs says I will have framedrop"05:52
cehtehafter some use many cards get much slower, the better ones settle at some level, really bad ones drop dramatically in speed05:53
Primesyes cehteh, just like 2.5 inch flash SSDs, performance usually degrades., controller dependant.05:53
cehtehgood SSD's to idle time maintenance to regain performance .. but i doubt SD card firmware does that05:54
ShadowJKKingston cards are so braindead they always run in slow mode :-)05:54
cehtehmy laptops SSD is very consistent in speed even without TRIM because dmcrypt05:54
Primesyes they are more primitive controllers in the SD, but do they also use some overprovisioning?05:54
ShadowJKYeah, because they don't actually test the flash before or after they put it in a *SD card.05:56
PrimesAh, so , for ability to reject bad sectors yet still work, thus increasing yield from production. I was thinking more for moving stuff around to minimise erases.05:57
ShadowJKIt never moves stuff around05:58
SpeedEvilNot quite.05:58
ShadowJKThere's basically no wear leveling of static data05:58
SpeedEvilThere are always bad sectors in most NANDs05:58
SpeedEvilthere are expectedd to be05:58
cehtehthey have ecc for that05:58
cehtehsame for spinning platters .. errors are expected05:59
PrimesBut when the capacity is full, I think it should be doing intelligent writing and erasing05:59
ShadowJKPrimes, it doesn't know about capacity05:59
SpeedEvilIndeed - the ECC isn't quite for that - it's picking up the errored sectors before they become problematic.05:59
SpeedEvilSo they can reallocate.05:59
cehtehthey dont do write verification but they have enough error correction information to cover almost all expected errors05:59
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cehtehnowadays the read signals (both, ssd and hdd) are quite weak06:00
ShadowJKAll cards I've had that I've worn out have had nasty failure behaviours. One silently corrupted data. One just hangs indefinitely when touching the bad sector. One does the same, except the bad sector randomly moves around (wear leveling the dead sector) :-)06:00
cehtehfor hdds its the magnetic impulse which must be over the noise floor for ssds and MLC its the resistance encoding the data06:00
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ShadowJKAnd yet writing to other areas of it works full speed without problems, so it's not doing bad sector reallocation or wear leveling over the entire area06:01
SpeedEvilThey do it over regions06:01
cehtehtechnology is maxed out there is no marigin for error on the hardware level, that all needs to be compensated by clever software and error correction bits06:01
SpeedEvilOf a thousand blocks or so06:01
Primescehteh, error correction is more overhead, detection can be done by some CRC on a large size area, if it mismatches, just invalidate the whole block I guess.06:02
SpeedEvilAt least according to stuff I've read.06:02
SpeedEvilNot quite.06:02
SpeedEvilEvery block written has ECC along with it.06:03
SpeedEvilIf, on read, the ECC nearly fails to correct the block, then that block is marked bad06:03
cehtehPrimes: when you expect errors to be seen at read time and dont do write verify then you rely on ECC06:03
cehtehotherwise the storage would be leaky ..06:03
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cehtehand this is usually implemented in some hardwired circruits at least partially06:03
ShadowJKIn any case, cards don't do any fancy wear leveling or bad block replacements. They're quite primitive, which only makes SpeedEvil's want for raw mode the more relevant, you could use the powerful host processor for doing something more clever, which would not only boost longevity, but also boost speed by a few magnitudes :/06:04
SpeedEvilIt's expected there is some error rate - the key is that the ECC can 'always' catch it before it goes bad irrecovera bly06:04
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Primescehteh, but ECC can only correct some limited errors, not many bit errors, so it's possible you still could lose data06:04
SpeedEvilPrimes: The ECC is designed so it has enough depth for worst-case degradation of the memory06:04
cehtehShadowJK: well yes .. i sometimes wonder about all this wear leveling .. why dont you use blocks sequentially until they are worn and then replace them06:04
SpeedEvilIn principle06:04
SpeedEvilcehteh: The hard part is remembering which block is which without doing a media-wide scan.06:05
ShadowJKcehteh, you would if you had the CPU and RAM :-)06:05
Primesin some implementation, single bit error detection AND correction, it multibit only detect errors can't correct. like hamming coding used for teletext bit recovery06:05
SpeedEvilHence they 'zone' the disk into thousand block or so.06:05
SpeedEvilPrimes: The ECC can correct and detect multibit errors.06:05
cehtehPrimes: advanced ECC is quite smart and people building this devices know what errors they expect and tie the algorithms to that06:06
Primescehteh, because the overwriting to those sectors will not be the same throughout. Hence a good controller may choose to move stuff around06:06
cehtehfor example when you know that a worn out cell sticks to some bit or so06:06
ShadowJKcehteh, iirc I once calculated that for a sequential log structured filesystem like that, the intel M25 128 or 256 (I forget which) would use all or most of it's declared 64MByte ram "cache" for the datastructures required to keep track of it all :-)06:06
cehtehmaybe :)06:07
PrimesI guess it can speedevil, but when we say multibit, is it 2 or is it 20 bit error run?06:07
SpeedEvilLots06:07
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall it's around 1% ECC bits06:08
Primescaching reads is fine, caching writes is dangerous unless you have a good UPS, battery backed raid controller, ideally battery backed cache ram by power or supercapacitors06:08
Termanagood morning06:09
ShadowJKYeah that's what I'm saying, they're not using that massive ram for caching06:09
SpeedEvilCaching writes being dangerous only makes sense if you have applications that do the right thing.06:09
cehtehi wonder if at least for SSD some big capacitor would work to buffer power glitches and purge some emergency stuff to the flash06:10
SpeedEvilOtherwise, you can't assume that you can simply stop the CPU, and the drive will contain a sane filesystem or files.06:10
DocScrutinizercehteh: sure06:10
cehtehwell at the beginning of this year i made a SSD odyssey .. trying serveral ones each one broken in different ways06:10
cehtehuntil i finally found a reliable (and extra expensive) one06:11
Primescehteh, yes commercial products do this using capacitor, supercapacitor. You're holding up the ram long enough to dump the content to some flash06:11
DocScrutinizercehteh: a 100uF at 350V on a SPSU input that works down to 100V06:11
cehtehi was more thinking about a goldcap directly inside the ssd06:11
cehteh(to dump its own buffers)06:11
cehtehbut prolly that isnt feasible06:12
DocScrutinizercehteh: won't work as those circuits are designed to work with a certain VDD06:12
Primescehteh I have some of those gigabyte i-ram drives, they are DDR ram, with battery backup. But batteries need replacing, whereas supercapacitors don't ;-)06:12
cehtehyeah06:13
DocScrutinizercehteh: you could charge a goldcap with a step-up converter, and on power glitch enable the LDR to provide 5V06:13
cehtehsomething like that .. dunno at what voltage flash runs internally maybe as low as 3.3V nowadays?06:14
SpeedEvil1.8 or lower06:14
Primesyou can shift the voltage pretty easily06:15
DocScrutinizeron whatever voltage it runs, it will get exactly that voltage via the power supply, as you don't have regulators on those components06:15
Primesacard make a nice ANS-9010, it's DDR2 based SSD which is backed by battery. If power fails the battery keeps the content while it copies content onto a compact flash card.06:16
DocScrutinizerso no matter how large your capacitor, it will drop below the regular voltage in no time06:16
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* SpeedEvil holds up a 330F cap.06:16
DocScrutinizerLOL06:16
Primesuse charge pumping to reach and maintain the target voltage ;-)06:17
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Primesalso consider parallel/series configurations. Some people didn't want single point of failure06:18
DocScrutinizerok, allow 2% (assuming the PSU has a precision of +-3% while component tolerates +-5%), then you can calculate how long it takes to make that capacitor drop by those 2% at a given current drawn06:18
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PrimesDocScrutinizer, battery voltage varies over time too06:19
SpeedEvilBattery voltage is decoupled from component voltages by internal PSUs06:19
Primesso, why not just take the capacitor output and regulate it to the target?06:19
DocScrutinizerthat's exactly what I suggested06:20
PrimesIt's funny how a 3.3 or 5v powered device, can derive +12 and -12v to drive RS232. Maybe you could take a similar approach lol06:21
DocScrutinizermax23206:22
DocScrutinizer:-P06:22
Primeslol and it's variants ;-)06:22
ShadowJKand the N900 can produce 5V on USB from its 3.7V battery :P06:23
PrimesIF you hack it for usb host mode ;-)06:23
jierowhat?!06:23
DocScrutinizeryes, with a step-up converter06:23
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DocScrutinizerjiero: what what?06:23
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jieroDocScrutinizer N900 can produce 5V on USB from its 3.7V battery06:24
ShadowJKyes06:24
Primesyes it can ;-)06:24
DocScrutinizerjiero: how else should h-e-n work06:24
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Primesbut they wanted to fasttrack the approvals to get the device to market so it is officially usb slave mode06:25
jieroI have no knowledge about those...06:25
DocScrutinizererrr somewhat, yes06:25
jieroBetter just watch06:25
DocScrutinizer~hostmode06:25
infobotrumour has it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6523206:25
* DocScrutinizer burps06:26
DocScrutinizer~xyawn06:27
infobotfrom memory, xyawn is sleep06:27
DocScrutinizerhmm06:27
DocScrutinizergnite06:27
DocScrutinizer~botsnack06:27
infobotthanks, DocScrutinizer06:27
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PrimesI have a couple more questions about my maemo5. First , on the status item just right of the green battery, I have a bluetooth icon, and TWO level meters that might be for wifi, was it some wifi measuring app I installed?06:36
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ShadowJKprobably06:37
PrimesSecondly, is it possible to get cell tower ID and strength measurements from the phone subsystem, without r and d mode?06:37
SpeedEvilOr cpu-mem applet06:37
SpeedEvilPrimes: you can't get them for unconnected towers06:37
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ShadowJKwith or without rd06:37
SpeedEvilOtherwise - install 'netmon' for connected06:38
PrimesI mean when I turn on GPRS or 3G data, then I'm connected to a cell tower, can't I get some info on it, maybe using a command or app? My 3G wifi mifi dongle gives this in the web interface06:38
SpeedEvilsee netmon06:39
PrimesNetmon is an app?06:40
SpeedEvilyes06:40
SpeedEvilhttp://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/06:40
Primes"Displays Signal Strength in dBm, Cell ID, LAC, RNC, Network Code, etc." yup, that's the stuff06:41
PrimesI worked for several telecomms companies, I thought a hacker phone should have such capability06:42
Primesthe cpu-mem applet I loaded is like a widget showing 3% and 136MB. That seems different to these bars to the right of the battery status. Are those there on yours or is it unusual because I installed something06:44
SpeedEvilno06:45
SpeedEvildisk space?06:45
SpeedEvilGo to app-installer then uninstall06:45
SpeedEvilto see what's there06:45
Primesthere are two of these things. Each one is a grey dot, with two white dots to the right of it. Sometimes it might draw some red also?06:45
SpeedEvilDon't know - look to see what you've installed.06:46
SpeedEvilAFK - sleep06:46
PrimesI looked hard, still working on it06:46
DocScrutinizerLoad applet is the name06:47
DocScrutinizercomes with screenshot in system status menu06:48
DocScrutinizerI always thought load applet should come per default, as it's as important to understand your phone as is the motor temperature and RPM display in your car06:50
Primescpumem-applet uninstalled. one of those bar things is gone now, one remains06:50
Primesthat's what htop is for lol06:51
DocScrutinizerload applet - keep it!06:51
PrimesI like the one showing the little microchip, it's those little mini bars I don't like06:51
DocScrutinizerBS, whe your device becomes unresponsive, the you won't start htop to find out why - you can't06:52
ShadowJKLots of cars lack rpm display :)06:52
Primesif I already had it running, I don't need to start it06:52
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PrimesI drove the nissan leaf electric car recently, it can be remote startup heater and diagnostics from a smartphone06:53
ShadowJKMy biggest issue with load applet was that it didn't distinguish between CPU use and iowait. People stare at it and said "ZOMG i need to overclock!!"06:54
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ShadowJKmaybe it was fixed06:59
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Primesok I got rid of the second tickbar thing. It was the load applet that can do screenshots. I like the screenshot capability but don't want those bars things.07:02
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ShadowJKctrl-shift-p takes screenshot07:12
DocScrutinizerand unlike harmattan, it works any time07:12
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DocScrutinizerI mean how terribly must they have messed up things to get a formerly global shortcut neutered to only work in MTF apps07:14
cehtehhow do you ctrl-shift-p  on a virtual keyboard? .. hey how does one work with emacs on a virtual keyboard? :)07:15
ShadowJKwell keyboard shortcuts aren't that relevant on harmattan ;p07:16
DocScrutinizerBS07:16
ShadowJKOne could even argue that any function or feature that is only sanely accessible from hwkb is a bug in harmattan07:17
Primesok thanks for the tip, I wrote down CTRL shift p07:17
DocScrutinizerbullshit!!!07:17
PrimesMaybe call it a "feature" rather than a bug07:17
ShadowJKAs there wont be a keyboard, requiring a keyboard is a bug ;p07:18
DocScrutinizernext you'll declare HID profile of BT a bug07:18
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DocScrutinizerseriously, sometimes it pisses me off07:20
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DocScrutinizergnite07:20
ShadowJKThe lack of keyboard pisses me off more, and then I'll really get pissed off if there's lots of shit that needs the nonexistant keyboard07:20
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DocScrutinizeroh yeah, so better keep the shit but disable the kbd shortcut - get a brain!!07:21
ShadowJKAnd dragging a table, phonestand and bt keyboard with you isn't only very slow way of accessing hwkb, it's also not very practical :)07:22
Primes"to access advanced screen capture features using obscure keyboard combinations, please attach your usb or bluetooth keyboard" Simples07:22
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Primesthose laser projection bluetooth keyboards do look rather cool though07:23
* ShadowJK would make a bet that bt hid wont be supported and Aegis will make sure it'll never be supported ;p07:23
Primeswho can tell me where in the app manager is located nano text editor I don't seem to find it now07:24
ShadowJKI think you need to apt-get it07:25
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ShadowJKbin app manager I'd just view the everything category and start typing nano07:25
Primeswell shadow, it appeared before, but would not install said it was missing some file, which I guess I need apt get to obtain that file, but I can't say what file because now I can't locate the app install??07:26
ShadowJKuh07:26
PrimesAh it is under GNU nano07:27
PrimesProblems: Application packages missing: libncursesw5 (>=5.7+20081213-1.maemo1+0m5)07:28
PrimesI like nano, it's easy to use, unlike vim07:28
Primesand whereas leafpad looks a little too simple for me07:29
cehtehthere is a emacs for the n900 :P07:29
cehtehbut you have to remap some keys to make it useable07:29
PrimesI remember the days of IBM Xedit under VM/CMS07:29
SpeedEvilI remember the days of programming using diode arrays.07:30
SpeedEvil(it was 1988, I had lots of diodes)07:30
PrimesI had a machine with 1Kbyte ram, in 198107:31
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SpeedEvilzx81 here too07:31
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PrimesTwo zx81s, and a 16k rampack. And a schoolfriend who built a zx80 from kit form07:31
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jonwilI think the closest I have come to development for anything funky would be the time I did some 65816 ASM07:32
* jonwil waits for people to ask what a 65816 is :P07:32
PrimesI did z80A, 6502, 6809, 8086, PIC assembler07:32
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jonwilThe 65816 was the 16-bit sequal to the 650207:32
PrimesWhat is this number of which you speak?07:32
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jonwilIt was used in, among other things, the Apple IIGS07:33
PrimesI can haz Arduino?07:33
jonwiland the Super Nintendo07:33
jonwilwhich is where my interest came in07:33
Primesright , I have an old super nintendo, NTSC version07:34
jonwilthe 65816 is the CPU in the SNES07:34
PrimesI bought a PS3, as a "cheap" cell development system (cheaper than the 20K Mercury). Unfortunately Sony removed the other linux OS option.07:34
jonwilThere are hacks out there that let you bring OtherOS back07:35
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jonwilnot authorized by Sony obviously07:36
jonwilbut usable07:36
Primesyes, but I miss out on other features maybe like gaming , 3d blueray playback. The better FP version of cell is now used in some IBM bladecenter blade07:37
jonwilNo you dont miss out on the other features07:37
jonwilYou can install the hack and keep your games and bluray07:37
Primesbut now, with the help of FPGAs and opencores, we can just make our own cpus07:37
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PrimesI think recent games try to update/validate the firmware, or gaming on the PSN may also07:38
jonwilI think the 65000 is the nicest architecture I have experienced with07:38
jonwiland ARM is the worst07:38
Primestransputer: ahead of its time07:39
Primesclearspeed accelerators, nice07:39
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* jonwil wishes IBM had picked the 65000 instead of the 8086 for the PC07:40
Primeshey even Xilinx making an FPGA combined with a cortex A9.07:40
Primesjust thinking of the savings of documentation textbooks. If IBM chose the Z80A, I could have just kept with my Rodney Zacks bible07:41
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PrimesI'm in the local linux user group, my preferred distro is opensuse where we have YAST. But can I install libncursesw5 from apt get?07:42
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PrimesI blame Geohot as well as Sony for the removal of OtherOS. He is not innocent, he should have kept to hacking iphones if he could not keep his mouth shut and think of the consequences07:44
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ShadowJKit'd be installed automatically if available07:47
PrimesThis should be PR1.3 like most. Installing GNU nano says "Unable to install GNU nano. Some application packages required for the installation are missing.07:48
PrimesSo does anyone have nano installed and working? If the ncurses is missing, can I get it?07:49
PrimesI'm not Debian person (yet)07:49
ShadowJKTry enabling sdk tools repo07:50
PrimesAnd this is done in app manager: application catalogs: NEW .....07:51
cehtehPrimes: n900?07:52
Primesyes n90007:52
cehtehi have nano installed and no problems07:52
cehtehsince some days i also have a chroot on the device with the sdk .. nice feel :P07:52
cehtehnano is secondary editor after emacs :P07:53
ShadowJKhttp://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/sdk free non-free07:53
Primesfor now I only have nokia apps, nokia system software updates, ovi, maemo.org catalogs07:54
cehtehyou do it in a chroot right?07:54
cehtehsdk on the main installation likely will break because the sdk isnt optified07:55
Primesyou're "loosing" me07:55
cehtehuh oh :P07:56
ShadowJKcehteh, he just wants to have nano07:56
cehtehah ok07:56
ShadowJKafaik07:56
PrimesLater I will try all the sdk wizardry07:56
cehtehwherent there 2 nano packages (or more)07:56
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ShadowJKthey all seem to depend on libncurses in sdk tools?07:57
PrimesI only see "GNU nano" in the app manager, with a missing dependency. Yes I want to fix this to get nano. It's a learning exercise. Something else had something missing too, so if I can learn how to find and get, then I can overcome that too07:57
cehtehnano-opt - GNU nano - an enhanced clone of the Pico text editor.07:57
Primesyes I like pico and nano on desktop linux07:58
cehtehPrimes: you need extras enabled07:58
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dm8tbrhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Extras07:58
cehteh(i think?... dunno i always have :P)07:58
cehtehthere where/is an older broken nano package07:59
Primesand, when adding the catalogue (repository) what should I enter for the distribution name?08:00
ShadowJKhe wouldn't see nano at all in ham if he didn't have extras enabled08:00
cehtehShadowJK: there are about 3 or more nano packages08:01
cehtehi dont know from which repo they all comme08:01
cehtehextras testing tools .. wtf :P08:01
ShadowJKall the ones i see have same dependencies08:01
cehtehi just can assert that i have a working nano here08:01
Primesno, that's not it, EXTRAS is already as one of my 4 catalogs08:01
Primesthankyou for your assertion cehteh, it gives me hope08:02
cehteh(working since 1 year or longer ...)08:02
cehtehin the beginning there was a nano which segfaulted when you used the search function08:02
cehtehPrimes: maybe enable testing and tools too08:03
Primeslol but the option to show line numbers is nice and useful08:03
Primescehteh, so you have more than 4 catalogs configured?08:03
cehtehdeb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free08:03
cehtehi am just checking .. only 408:04
cehtehi once had more (wtf, where did they go)08:04
ShadowJKcommunity-testing? wtf is that?08:04
cehtehhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Repository08:04
cehtehShadowJK: somehow i ask myself how that made it into that08:05
PrimesI think it goes into devel the raw stuff then approved into testing, then migrates into the production version08:05
cehtehalso i dont know if fapman using those08:05
cehtehlemme check fapman08:05
cehtehyeah in fapman i have extras-testing08:06
cehtehand devel08:06
cehtehextras-devel08:06
ShadowJKit's not listed on the wikipage08:07
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cehtehstrange .. i dont know where that comes from .. i rarely use HAM08:07
cehtehbut it exists :P08:08
casketizerisnt that the cssu repo?08:09
ShadowJKthis seems relevant http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo508:09
cehtehcould be08:09
casketizerthe installer installs it in ham08:09
cehtehah yes08:09
casketizerfap has seperate repo list, it dont use apt's08:09
casketizerham uses apt's08:09
cehtehwhere does fapman keep its configs?08:10
casketizerin /root/.fapman08:10
Primesdo you have devtools repository loaded? Looks like nice things like traceroute there for me08:10
cehtehah08:10
cehtehthanks08:10
casketizertraceroute is in sdk repo08:11
casketizeri have added sdk repo in fapman for stuff like it and gawk08:11
ShadowJKlooks like this devtools repo is a sanitized version of sdk tools?08:11
ShadowJKif it isnt the same08:11
casketizerits a subset i think08:12
casketizernot sure08:12
casketizeri aded sdk and sdk tools in fap08:12
cehtehbe careful with sdk .. there are huge not optified packages08:13
casketizeron 2nd thot i think devtools is sdk tools08:13
casketizerceteh yeah i know08:14
casketizeri only use it for small things like gawk, tracert etc08:14
cehtehthats why i saied, put it in a chroot ..08:14
casketizeri have 44mb free rootfs08:14
cehtehwell i just installed ful blown stuff08:15
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cehtehgit self-build, ccache, linux .git checkout ...08:15
casketizeri manually optified and MyDocsified tons of stuff08:15
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casketizeri had gcc and tcc running without chroot and 34mb free rootfs before last flash08:16
casketizerhavent reinstalled it yet tho08:16
cehtehhow is tcc on the n90008:16
PrimesI will be planning on gcc sooner or later, just taking baby steps now08:16
cehtehi tried once on the main but devel libs where missing :P08:16
casketizertcc linker sux08:16
cehtehok08:17
SpeedEvilThere is only one sane solution to cross-compiling the kernel.08:17
SpeedEvilhttp://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html08:17
cehtehhaha08:17
casketizerif u write stuff with math functions or so u need to link with gnu linker08:17
cehtehok08:17
cehtehwell i have gcc anways now08:17
casketizertcc linker doesnt handle the arm fpu stuff08:17
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cehtehalso i tried to compile luajit which worked with little efforts08:18
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cehtehnext time i make that ready to push it upstream08:18
Primes"it can compile and run a typical Linux kernel in less than 15 seconds on a 2.4 GHz Pentium 4", was the kernel less verbose back in 2004?08:19
cehtehluajit would be awesome  .. its so much faster than python08:19
cehtehhuh08:19
casketizerif i dont get my linux box back soon and with it scratchbox ill reinstall gcc too08:19
cehtehi can remember kernel compiles in 90 seconds on my dual p2 back in time08:19
casketizeri can remember kernel 2.0.29 taking 10min on a P6608:20
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casketizererr P6008:20
cehtehheh my first pentium was a 133 or so08:21
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cehtehbefore i had an amiga08:21
casketizerthat was my second08:21
casketizeri had a 486/33 later upgraded to dx4-100 before the p6008:22
casketizerbefore that amiga08:22
casketizerbefore that c64 and c12808:22
cehtehwhat a shock .. amiga with a 8mhz cpu worked more responsive than windows nt 3.51 on a pentium1 with 133Mhz08:22
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cehtehcant even remember how much ram my first pentium had .. 32MB? .. no idea08:23
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casketizeri had nt4 for a while on a p2 300 @ 45008:23
casketizeri had one of those 450 relabled as 300 due to 300 shortages, lucky :)08:24
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casketizeri think my p60 had 32 gb08:24
casketizermy 486 had 16 and much later 6408:25
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casketizeri used that 486 til 200608:26
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casketizerran linux ipcop from 2000-0608:26
casketizerbut then my line got too fast for it08:27
Primeswell I think I got the devtools repo setup in app manager. Now to have the traceroute app, I need to xterm, sudo gainroot, apt-get install traceroute ? ?08:35
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casketizeryep08:42
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casketizeror simply download it and dpkg -i it08:42
Primeswhen I apt-get install traceroute, I get warning: the following packages cannot be authenticated! traceroute. Install these packages without verification Y/N ....... would this be a good idea?08:42
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casketizerits no prob08:43
Primesso it is normal to say yes?08:43
casketizeryea08:43
Primesis it result of some key or codesigning?08:44
casketizeryea08:44
Primesand this is not result of some version mismatch?08:44
casketizerif u check fapman logs u see it all the time in extras-dev08:44
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casketizerits some broken ssl certificate08:45
PrimesI never ever heard of fapman I have no clue what it does. I used yast in suse, occasionally stuff from rpm08:45
casketizerfaster application manager08:45
Primesapt-get seems closer to my experience08:45
casketizerbtw i dont recommend leaving devtools enabled in ham08:45
casketizerjust enable it when u need it08:45
PrimesI know to temporarily enable, load uboot then disable when heading towards meego dualboot08:46
casketizerjust uncheck the enabled thing in ham08:46
casketizerafter u installed tracert08:46
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casketizerneed to go bbl08:46
PrimesI now have a working traceroute command. This rocks08:47
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slonopotamuscssu camera app always says there's no free space when trying to make a shot. any workarounds/fixes?08:48
ruskiebut there is?08:49
slonopotamussure08:49
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PrimesThanks for your help casketizer, I disabled the new repo for now.08:58
Primesnano is working, that was my objective08:58
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robbiethe1stOoh, cool! http://www.dealextreme.com/p/i-smartsim-2008-sim-card-unlock-attachment-for-nokia-and-most-other-cell-phones-1216710:51
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psycho_oreosN95 was listed as unsupported (no signal/cellular connectivity), I'm guessing N900 would probably do the same11:00
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robbiethe1sthuh11:01
Mekare there any simlocked n900's in existence? Okay, there will probably be plenty of N9's simlocked11:01
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dm8tbrthe size of this sim thing is 'mini' so it won't work with 'micro' e.g. N911:04
psycho_oreoshave a look at some of the user's/reviewers comments on the same page :)11:04
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Mekah yeah11:05
Mekso seems rather useless for anything maemo :)11:05
psycho_oreoswhat?11:06
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RST38hhttp://cordiatab.com !11:10
psycho_oreosseems like there's a fair few areas of that wiki (belonging to cordiatab) site needs to be fleshed out :p there's SIM slot but no specifications on bands it could operate, and 802.11b/g ? wtf...11:17
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dm8tbrRST38h: yeah, smoku's baby :)11:21
RST38hsmoku is good, very good =)11:22
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B4byh4ckHi12:11
nicofsDoes anyone know how to create a custom image for easy debian?12:12
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lcuknicofs, qole does12:17
nicofslcuk, how can i talk to him...?12:18
lcuknicofs, he is asleep most likely now12:21
lcuk(based in Canada)12:21
lcukemail I guess would work12:21
lcuk:)12:21
lcukor start a thread12:21
lcukand mail him the link12:21
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nicofslcuk, that thread thing would be best in case others want to do the same...12:22
Hurrianhmm, anyone used ramz on power48?12:23
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Siceloi've just been reading my logs here... Load Applet displays cpu and mem usage on the left of the camera things. if i click that icon, i get some kind of menu in the background, with Item 1 to Item 4. this doesn't seem to work. anything i'm doing wrong, or it works this way for everyone else?12:55
Corsachmhm, was there any news about n9 during the last two weeks (was in vac)12:56
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SpeedEvilCorsac: no13:21
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SpeedEvilSicelo: screenshot?13:21
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Sicelojust a sec13:23
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ruskiehttp://www.reghardware.com/2011/07/26/mozilla_plans_open_source_mobile_os/ <-- and finally it's revealed...13:27
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SiceloSpeedEvil: http://ssh.bombshellz.net/~qhubekela/load_applet.jpg13:32
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Hurrianohai Pali13:51
Palihello13:51
HurrianPali , how do I get compcache working in power48?13:52
PaliI do not know - I did not tested it yet13:52
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Hurrianah13:52
PaliI only integrated kernel patch13:53
Hurriani'll ask tigerite then13:53
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Hurrianhmm, what's broken about multiboot is not wearing out rw cycles, it's about NOT WRITING THE KERNEL to the MTD partition PROPERLY13:57
Hurrianonenand has so many rw cycles per EB, more kernels than you would ever normally flash13:57
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vi__hello14:12
Cor-Aiolleh14:13
vi__is there ANY PDF reader that allows for FULLscreen reading on the n900?14:13
Siceloevince14:13
vi__evince: cannot get rid of scrollbar14:13
Arkenoi(..and remembers the file position)14:14
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SpeedEvilSicelo: Look at the apps you have installed14:19
SpeedEvilSicelo: Read the about pages of all of them14:20
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vi__so there is literally NO PDF reader that can go fullscreen?14:27
vi__fucking hell.14:27
Arkenoiand no decent reflow either14:27
Arkenoiand no position saving14:28
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Siceloi think i see my mistake. maemo5-load-applet vs. load-applet14:31
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DocScrutinizermoo, or not: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1058571&postcount=7216:11
DocScrutinizerun_abill OMG16:11
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Hurrianowch16:13
DocScrutinizernail varnish cleaner - SUUUURE, as this crap has 30% oil and 70% acetone, the oil is to keep your nails alive16:15
Hurriandocscrutinizer , wrong channel?16:16
DocScrutinizerand telling somebody wo *completely messed up* due to incompetence (no accuse, just a fact) to clean up and start all over in a better way... DANG what a sound rationale16:16
DocScrutinizerHurrian: why?16:17
DocScrutinizeris tmo bashing not allowed here anymore?16:17
Hurriani meant about the nail varnish cleaner16:17
Hurriandidnt see that in the thread16:17
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DocScrutinizerread the today's last 3 pages of that thread I linked above and you'll get the context16:18
DocScrutinizermaximuscool suggested to use nail varnish remover to clean the PCB16:19
DocScrutinizer:-O16:19
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HurrianLOL WUT16:19
Hurrianhow are you supposed to apply that, a cotton tip (BAD IDEA)16:20
DocScrutinizertwo fools talking a third err noob (maybe too harsh to call him a fool as well) into completely destroying his N90016:20
Hurrianabill_uk: I will not share my mods for a few reasons because they are not easy and would never want people to destroy the pcb alltogether.16:20
Hurrianuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh16:20
DocScrutinizerUHUH16:21
Hurrianinstructions on how to destroy your {INTERNET_TABLET_DEVICE} have been out on maemo.org for a very very long time16:21
DocScrutinizerROTFL16:21
Hurrianin fact, let's call it forum.internettablettalk.com16:21
serkamil_hi16:21
Hurrianconstant exposure to F.ITT can also cause damage to your brain16:22
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Hurrianabill_uk: you MUST have as long as possible a pointed round tip16:23
Hurrianwut16:23
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DocScrutinizerthis guy is so completely off any rail: >>abil_uk: Well done luketanti for showing how the N900 can be kept standard without the need for wireing mods that involve software limitations.<<16:25
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Hurriansoftware limitations?16:26
Hurrianoh what the16:27
DocScrutinizerchem|st: PLEASE ban this abil_uk!!! He's again in same thread as me - mayor offense!!16:27
Hurrianabill_uk's gone deeper down the crapper after the community rant thread16:27
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* DocScrutinizer fetching popcorn and waiting for ""SOB! it fell off *AGAIN*""16:28
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DocScrutinizeralso "HLP PLZ! flasher *always* quits with -101 transmission error"16:29
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Hurriana lot of people really don't know how to read, don't they?16:29
Hurrianfirst, windows is shit for flashing (lol libusb)16:30
Hurriansecond, emmc and rootfs -- the order doesn't matter, as long as you -R after the second image16:30
Hurrianthird, unless you damaged MTD EB or wiped mtd1, it never bricks16:31
Hurrianheck, even if you wipe mtd1 you can still bring it back16:31
DocScrutinizerin this particular case though I'm *not* going to answer "get a _good_ USB cable! What? Oh too bad then, get a better _internal_ USB wiring"16:31
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Hurriandocscrutinizer, even better -- make everyone use the flashing-jig-battery-thing for flashing16:32
DocScrutinizerHurrian: (wipe mtd1/CAL) you verified that? you ever recovered from that?16:32
Hurriandocscrutinizer, nope, just assuming, as someone said the omap3 SOC ROM always pulls code from USB16:33
Hurrianthen again, no one knows how to make a mtd1/CAL area from scratch16:33
DocScrutinizerit does, yes. But it seems impossible for flasher to restore CAL as CAL is unique per device16:34
DocScrutinizerthere's probably a reason why newest flasher-3.5.11(?) has --cal-restore <file> option16:35
Hurrianyup, found it interesting16:35
Kaadlajkharmattan flasher can backup all the certs16:35
Hurriansomeone needs to finish up that open flasher16:35
DocScrutinizerHurrian: you seen my comments about mtd_debug command?16:35
DocScrutinizerKaadlajk: indeed, keeping/getting 0xFFFF up to date was a nice plan, alas it seems nobody is picking up on it16:36
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DocScrutinizererr16:37
DocScrutinizerHurrian: ^^^16:37
Hurrianuhh, not yet16:37
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jonwilThe question is, can you actually read CAL area via bootloader/flasher interface on N900?16:42
GNUtoo|laptopyes, 0xFFFF even decodes it16:44
GNUtoo|laptopbut not totally16:44
x29ahey folks, whats the dealio with long double on arm (alias l-functions from math.h on fremantle for the n900)? im trying to port some software which heavily uses fabsl and so on16:44
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GNUtoo|laptopit only shows the different sections16:44
x29ais there a way to get long double support into the toolchain or do i have to alter the sourcecode?16:44
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DocScrutinizerx29a: just out of interest - what's that app that needs long double datatypes to do those extremely nifty high precision calculations?16:52
DocScrutinizernavigation on board of next voyager deep space probe?16:53
x29afirst 3 words are correct16:54
x29aits a navigation software16:54
DocScrutinizeror maybe just orbiter simulation16:54
ShadowJKI'd be somewhat shocked if nasa used floating point16:54
ShadowJKiirc long double has resolution on the metres scale in solar system scale16:55
lcukNASA use orbital point.16:55
x29adocscrutinizer: from your reaction i read, its not possible? i assume the arm processor just cant handle more? is there a wrapper or pseudefunction or something i could introtruce so i dont have to alter all the source?16:55
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: way better I guess16:55
DocScrutinizerx29a: I just know you're supposed to convert your real/float based audio processing to 32bit integer, for handheld, for performance reasons16:56
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x29ai fear the consequence: rewriting the code16:57
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ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, not only that, but floating point gives you different results everywhere16:58
ShadowJKSo if you want bit-exact you need integer16:58
crashanddie_A few months ago, I explained another dev at the company that comparing floats was a bad idea. You can't know for sure that (1.5 * 10) == 15.16:59
crashanddie_I just had to explain to him again. He forgot.16:59
DocScrutinizerwell, if the original author was lazy or incompetent enough to not consider how much precision he actually needs on each single arithmetic operation, and also wasn't familiar with fixed-point arithmetic, then yes you probably need to clean up the lazy approach he took that only works due to recent processors implementing floating point coprocessors for the lazy coders16:59
ShadowJK"long double is only guaranteed to be as long as double, but may be16:59
ShadowJKlonger.  Even on i386 it is really only 80 bits, even though you'd16:59
ShadowJKthink it should be 128 bits.  On ARM we use soft floating point, so16:59
ShadowJKlong double is folded into double.  There may be away to have 128-bit16:59
ShadowJKfloating point support, but nobody has climbed that hill for ARM or16:59
ShadowJKfor MIPS.16:59
ShadowJK"16:59
ShadowJKoops16:59
x29aShadowJK: can you name the source for that quotation?17:00
ShadowJKoh it was in some freebsd mailing list17:00
crashanddie_http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arm/2010-March/002323.html17:00
x29athanks17:01
ruskiehttp://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/26/allot_annual_data/ <-- hahahaha so basically they don't want people using mobile data in the end...17:01
DocScrutinizerwe (my IT possee) always claimed "if you can't do it in fixed point integer arithmetic, it's most probably not worth getting done at all"17:02
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DocScrutinizerwhich on a meta level means: if you don't know how to do it in integer, you have a lack of knowledge, as every task can get solved with fixed point (simplified rule of thumb)17:03
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ShadowJKWell I always thought that if I wanted to do something where I need a precision of X, like millimetres on a global scale, I'd look at how many millimeters there are on a global scale, and use an integer big enough...17:05
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+2^64+millimeter+to+lightyears17:06
DocScrutinizerresult: 1.95ly17:07
ShadowJKhttp://www.christian-seiler.de/projekte/fpmath/17:07
Corsachttp://blog.cihar.com/archives/2011/07/26/first-meego-application/17:08
Corsacnice17:08
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: your N900 died?17:09
DocScrutinizerno, why?17:09
hiemanshusaw a post about it, so was wondering17:09
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DocScrutinizerluketanti was about to kill his N900, to practice SMT soldering17:10
DocScrutinizerand to find out a mix of 30% castor oil 1% pantenol and 69% acetone is not suited to clean PCBA prior to soldering17:11
DocScrutinizerun_abill_uk and maximuscool helping him with suggesting such weird stuff like nail varnish remover17:13
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, more fun: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+%28%28%282^10%29^10%29^10%29^10+femtometer+to+astronomical+unit17:13
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, look at the "diameter of the observable universe" figure.17:13
crashanddie_I wonder how many libraries of congress that is.17:13
DocScrutinizercrashanddie_: what's the rationale behind that calculation? a binary integer datatype with 10^10^10^10 aka 10,000 bit?17:15
crashanddie_None whatsoever.17:16
x29ais there a different way to port a qt based application to the n900 then using the QtSDK? is the sandbox approach still up2date?17:16
crashanddie_still what, sorry?17:17
DocScrutinizerwell, with a 32bit unsigned integer you get cm precision on earth surface coords17:17
crashanddie_Yet it can't count over a century worth of seconds.17:18
chem|stDocScrutinizer: link please17:18
DocScrutinizerx29a: yes17:18
chem|stcrashanddie_: DocScrutinizer hello btw!17:18
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=convert+2^32+centimeter+to+kilometer&asynchronous=false&equal=Submit17:18
chem|stoh and ShadowJK and ruskie ar around aswell^^17:19
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: ooh, about abill_uk :-D just kidding17:19
DocScrutinizerchem|st: and hi! :-)17:19
x29acrashanddie_: up to date17:19
chem|stDocScrutinizer: I was already pissed as he was the first report I read after a while..17:19
DocScrutinizerchem|st: anyway: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71414&page=817:20
CorsacDocScrutinizer: http://www.google.com/search?q=speed+of+light+in+angstrom+per+fortnight is nice too17:20
DocScrutinizertwo fools talking a third fool into foolish things17:20
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: and abill_uk starting to spread nonsense about USB hostmode once again. But now the whole thread went completely mad, nobody getting a bit of what other persons really said17:21
DocScrutinizerabill_uk is really champion on this discipline17:22
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DocScrutinizerI can't even bother to answer and correct him17:22
DocScrutinizerCBA is the correct term I guess17:23
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DocScrutinizerbasically this i**ot teaches me about things I said in similar more detailed word myself a few posts before, and he claims I dod the opposite and that I've been wrong on it - *sigh* what a nut17:26
DocScrutinizerdid*17:26
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1058637#post105863717:26
chem|stmy answer17:26
DocScrutinizer:-D17:27
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, actually, you could probably store to pretty good odds something's cm location on the planet with a single 32bit unsigned, indeed. Something like absolute_distance + ((2^32 | 4007504000) + 2^quadrant)17:27
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DocScrutinizerhah, seems this post of yours took down tmo, chem|st :-P17:33
DocScrutinizerstalls on F517:33
DocScrutinizerooh, it finished17:33
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DocScrutinizer>>Please remember this is not the kind of device you can handle when wiring mods such as the ones your potraying people do as it is meant to be a mobile phone and tacking wires to those pads is far more difficult than soldering the port itself under any circumstances.<< (un_abill) really, what a nut17:35
DocScrutinizernobody else succeeds in packing that many lies/incorrect_assumptions into one sentence17:36
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: they do, they are called 'Microsoft' :P17:37
DocScrutinizerlol - you made my day - thanks17:38
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: lol17:39
ysssThey shouldn't be wiring up the psyche wards just to provide 'communication' and online entertainment to the patients..17:39
DocScrutinizerchem|st: is there a way to access history of edited tmo posts, or even deleted posts? I seem to recall seeing such a thing once, and also it seems to me a lot of abill_uk's more trolling or offensive posts simply vanished17:43
DocScrutinizermaybe my tmo theme just doesn't show the "edit history" buttons?17:43
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ysssjoerg: like versions/revisions? I don't think the list of deleted posts are publicly accessible17:50
DocScrutinizerI've once seen edit history / old versions of a post. Maybe my own post though17:51
ysssYou can edit or delete your own post, but I don't remember ever seeing an option to see old version of your posts.... short of on wikis.17:51
DocScrutinizerwas sth along the line "click on edit reason"17:51
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ysssthat sounds like the 'delete this post' option, you can see that if you 'go advanced' after clicking edit17:52
DocScrutinizerhttp://talk.maemo.org/posthistory.php?p=105857117:52
ysssah, i can't see that page. no permission to do so.17:53
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DocScrutinizergood17:53
DocScrutinizerso is there a similar thing for deleted posts?17:54
ysssprobably just for mods17:54
DocScrutinizer:nod:17:54
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yssslol abill's goodbye post may be his most thanked post ever17:54
yssshttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1058652#post105865317:54
DocScrutinizerI should thank too :-P17:54
ysssit's the least we can do :D17:55
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DocScrutinizeris this the news of the day? abill_uk says "Goodbye" http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1058653#post1058653 - nah, maybe just another nifty trick, he knows lots of such tricks17:58
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DocScrutinizerbut according to his reaction to chem|st I guess he will mean it this time - without or with help form mods17:58
chem|stDocScrutinizer: yeah I can see anything, I also see deleted posts and their hist17:59
ysssThe average blood pressure of TMO users will certainly go down if this is really happening17:59
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DocScrutinizerchem|st: I just recall I tried to search one of the lengthy original USB hostmode threads for abill_uk's post where he started rant about hostmode never working without hw mod, and I wasn't able to get any hits on the author name abill_uk, and also didn't find the post I searched for18:00
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: myself and other mods have tried to clean the rubbish... so you might not find all rants and discussions with abill... I deleted about 30pages of a 60 pages thread once... or moved it in offtopic18:02
DocScrutinizerso I wondered if he or a mod had deleted all abill_uk posts or sth, and if those posts wouldn't be there nevertheless hidden behind a link18:02
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DocScrutinizerit's kinda hard to proove tmo users behaved nasty in the past when their posts where they did get erradicated18:03
DocScrutinizer(pondering forim theory ;-D )18:04
chem|stmods still see them...18:04
DocScrutinizerforum*18:04
DocScrutinizerwhatever, a day starting with abill_uk always is a wasted day. So I'll try to rescue what's left over and get a walk o/18:05
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mgedminDocScrutinizer, have you tried looking at archive.org?18:13
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: actually not, thanks for reminding me18:14
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lardmanhmm, is it just me or is there a typo in the Qt 4.7 docs: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qdbus.html18:20
lardmanI don't seem to be able to include <QDbus> and need to include <QtDbus>18:20
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lardmanor perhaps it's changed and I'm not on the latest of course18:21
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mgedminthe desktop fbreader helpfully tries to build a maemo flavour too, and depends on things like libhildon1-dev and libosso-dev...18:25
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Jadehi18:40
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yssshi18:44
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Cor-Aihello18:54
DocScrutinizerLOL, following un_abill's posts *of course* inevitably guides you to find other similar trolls on tmo ;-P    A quite funny one: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1058671#post105867118:55
DocScrutinizerCor-Ai: hi18:55
DocScrutinizerchem|st: if you feel like making this a banning day: see Cod3rror :-P18:55
Cor-AiDocScrutinizer: hi :)18:56
edheldilwhat is h-e-n anyway?18:58
chem|stDocScrutinizer: not now gotta run^^ but nice idea!18:58
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ysssusb hostmode enabler19:00
edheldilah, suspected omething like that. Thanks19:00
ysssbut you may need a uk engineer to certify your n900 for it first (jk)19:00
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yssshttp://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2011/07/mozilla-eyes-mobile-os-landscape-with-new-boot-to-gecko-project.ars19:09
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DocScrutinizeredheldil:19:15
DocScrutinizer~hostmode19:15
infobotsomebody said hostmode was http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=6523219:15
ShadowJKysss, great, now we only have to wait for quad core 2GHz cellphone CPUs and 8Gbyte low-power DDR! :)19:15
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DocScrutinizer~h-e-n19:18
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging19:18
ysssheh... that may very well be their target platform19:18
DocScrutinizererr wut? "my OS is FF" ?19:19
edheldilDocScrutinizer:  thanks19:20
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DocScrutinizerysss: now mozilla goes google? dang! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Chrome_OS19:26
DocScrutinizertook then 2 years to catch up, while google obviously had a better idea called android meanwhile19:27
ruskieI thought it was android first... chrome os second19:27
ysssit's like a committee trying to mash "All mobile platform has to be cross compatible"... "These good web standards gotta be better used"... and "Let's app-ify the web"19:28
DocScrutinizerwhat a utterly ill-minded concept19:28
* ruskie starts kicking all these "smart" ideas19:29
DocScrutinizereven apple noticed their online contacts database sucks as you *are not* always online19:30
ysssi read through apple's latest os' features.. .and i think they stole chrome OS' idea as their emergency boot disc :) it creates a 400mb partition on the hdd and if your main boot drive fail, that partition boots up with a web browser... supposedly so you can google for help or whatever. oh, the os can be installed over the net too.19:31
ruskieso basically stole linux ideas from the last decade?19:32
ysssheh19:33
DocScrutinizeraiui iPhone's very first concept been "all is just a web app" until they noticed this sucks donkey balls19:33
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ysssif apple's original 'web app store' took off, then they would have a library of apps compatible with any other phones w/ browsers19:35
ysssexcept the games would suck balls19:35
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edheldilI have just noticed you can't set someone's birthday in contacts app before 1900. It does not hurt me in this case, but I wonder where else it's not possible to enter date before 190019:35
ruskiebrains of Nokia engineers?19:36
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DocScrutinizerthe datepicker is completely broken19:40
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DocScrutinizerslotmachine datepicker - mule shit19:40
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DocScrutinizerfor harmattan MTF they fixed that, while for these Qt* widgets it's back again once more. Incredible19:42
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DocScrutinizernevertheless harmattan birthdays also start at January 1900 :-P - regardless of the better datepicker concept19:45
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DocScrutinizer(this concept also isn't perfect, as it's a PITA to scroll thru even as little 100 years a` 12 months - gives me lame fingers from scrolling)19:46
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qknight_i would like to know how the n900 can be used as a 'usb client' (like an usb stick) regarding the technical low level suff20:18
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qknight_is that part open source or accessable?20:19
qknight_i don't find any specification only 'usb host mode' discussion which is exactly what i NOT want20:19
NIN101qknight_: the g_file_storage.ko kernel module might be interesting for you, for mass-stroage stuff at least.20:20
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qknight_NIN101: thanks20:23
NIN101yw.20:24
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GeneralAntillesThe Humble Bundle donation spreads always crack me up.20:28
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: eh?20:34
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, Windows users average about $2-3 dollars, Mac users manage about $5-6 and the Linux crowd usually runs around $12-$15.20:37
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DocScrutinizerfor what?20:38
DocScrutinizer$random donating?20:38
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DocScrutinizerif that's the topic, then it's quite obvious: windows users are used to getting everything "for free" as the redmond crap comes with their hardware. Apple users know they usually have to pay for software. And Linux crowd knows the developers never get paid for software20:40
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ysssThat's the perspective from a single participant... but as a whole, they seem to add to to approximately similar nominal amount for each slice of the cake20:42
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DocScrutinizeryou could as well say windows=cheap,paid-all-when-buying-hw, apple=don't-care-as-hw-and-sw-was-expensive, linux=buy-the-devel-so-he-continues20:44
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mtnmanhello20:46
mtnmanis there a way to do direct pc-to-pc sip calls? (i.e. connecting via ip address without a service provider)20:47
mtnmanon the n900, that is20:47
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DocScrutinizermtnman: alas not, seems telepathy/nokia didn't think about it20:48
mtnmanhmm... perhaps with a different sip client?20:48
DocScrutinizerat least afaik20:48
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DocScrutinizerI'd not know of any different sip client20:49
mtnmana couple came up on a search i did20:49
DocScrutinizerand the one on N900 seems to refuse to work completely as long as it couldn't register to SIP registrar20:49
DocScrutinizerhow did you do that search?20:50
mtnmanthat is very unfortunate.20:50
mtnmanuh the usual search engine20:50
DocScrutinizerwhich is?20:51
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DocScrutinizergoogling for "sip nokia n900"?20:51
DocScrutinizeror HAM?20:51
DocScrutinizeror what?20:51
mtnmani saw one called "fring"20:52
mtnmanhaven't looked into it very carfully though20:52
mtnmanjust looked up their site... looks to be a commercial venture20:53
DocScrutinizerhttp://www.google.de/search?q=fremantle+fring gets me to the fringe20:53
mtnmantry fring.com20:54
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DocScrutinizertry http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=90893920:56
mtnmanalso just found this with apt-cache search:20:58
mtnmansflphone-client-gnome - GNOME client for SFLphone20:58
ysssanyone use vmware or xen on a vt-d system20:58
DocScrutinizermtnman: probably for this particular usecase installing asterisk on N900 and configuring it to serve as local registrar is the sanest thing to do20:59
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mtnmandoc: i had thought of that, but it seems like it would be like trying to kill a fly with an elephant gun, when a flyswatter would be the ideal solution21:00
mtnman(asterisk being the elephant gun)21:00
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DocScrutinizerthough asterisk isn't really meant to get used this way and is quite an overkill, it might be the most straight forward fix for telepathy borkedness regarding direct-IP2IP voip21:00
mtnmanbut it seems like it would be kind of nice to have asterisk running on the n900, but i would imagine it would tax the system pretty heavily and run rather slowly21:01
mtnmani would think that one of the other linux sip clients would be ideal, since telepathy does not handle this use.21:02
DocScrutinizermtnman: also note that SIP VoIP always is direct peer to peer, it's only the signalling that runs over a registrar21:02
mtnmanlike linphone or something like that21:02
DocScrutinizer(well, modulo special cases like relaying)21:02
mtnmandoc yes true about peer to peer.  and correct, it is the registrar we are trying to avoid here.21:03
DocScrutinizerget your own registrar on some box in the visible net21:04
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mtnmanwith linphone i was able to connect between 2 linux boxes by just specifying user@ip.address.  i realize i could set up a registrar, but that is a more complicated situation.21:04
DocScrutinizerit will satisfy telepathy/dialer registration needs and also happily forward your invite to a direct IP21:04
mtnmani realize that it would work, but it still requires the recipient to register to whatever registrar i would set up.21:06
mtnmani'm not trying to argue here, just looking for something that *is* supported by the sip protocol, however, seemingly not by telepathy.21:06
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mtnmani will look for one of the linux sip clients that may have been packaged for maemo, or else maybe i will try to install one of them manually.21:07
DocScrutinizermtnman: (requires the recipient to register) definitely not21:07
DocScrutinizermtnman: hell, I can call $random-IP even via my sipgate.de account21:08
mtnmandoc: yes but you can't call a random ip which is an n900 endpoint21:08
DocScrutinizerwhy not? because of NAT etc? that's inevitably true no matter what you do. You need a path to the endpoint and to establish that you need either a public IP or a proxy read registrar21:10
mtnmandoc: what i have been saying is that with two linux boxes, i can call from one to the other by entering "user@ip.address"21:11
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mtnmanif the recipient is an n900, it doesn't connect.21:11
mtnmanif it is, say, a debian box running linphone or similar, it connects just fine.21:11
mtnmanyou have told me that telpathy doesn't suppor this.  i accept that.21:12
mtnmannow i am looking to an alternative linux sip client that i can install on my n900 to gain this functionality.21:13
DocScrutinizermtnman: N900 SIP client *should* accept inbound INVITEs21:13
mtnmandoc: you say "should" and i say "does not"21:13
mtnmanthis is on a my lan so there is no nat issue.  i can ssh between the two boxes no problem21:14
DocScrutinizerthe question is how to get sip client into a state where it accepts the INVITE (read: registered, green dot showing up), and how to find the public IP of N900 to know where to send the INVITE to21:14
mtnmanread above, i am testing this on a lan.21:14
DocScrutinizeryes, so what?21:15
mtnmanin a situation where i know full well the ip address of each box.   the concept of "registered" is what i'm trying to avoid.  the green dot is not relevant.21:15
mtnmanlike i said, i'm not trying to argue.  seems that telepathy does not support this, although other linux sip clients do.  so i will look to another client. that is all.21:16
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DocScrutinizersorry I really got no clue how borked telepathy is. Usually SIP RFC says you should send the INVITE to th URL/IP directly when you got no proxy (read sip provider) configured21:16
DocScrutinizersame for inbound INVITEs21:17
DocScrutinizershould always succeed when addressed to correct USER@ADDR21:17
GeneralAntillesysss, that's the average per-platform.21:17
mtnmandoc: yes i am able to make that type of connection on other linux boxes, but not with the n900 as recipient.  seems there could be some way to configure that, but it may be simpler to just install an alternative sip client on the n900.21:18
DocScrutinizermtnman: sorry I can't help then21:18
mtnmanthanks anyhow.  sometimes just having a conversation in-channel sparks a conversation where someone else will chime in...21:19
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DocScrutinizerif you're able to read German, you may want to install twinkle on your PC, start it with German locale, and read the evry verbous explanations (almost a tutorial) I turned the F1 helptexts of each config item into21:21
* mtnman does not understand german 21:21
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DocScrutinizerthen reading the manual on twinkle.com still may help to shed some light on a few details in a very concise way21:23
mtnmandoc: i think i have a fairly good handle on the situation.  seems the issue is with telepathy or some component thereof.21:24
DocScrutinizertwinkle has user name, registrar, outbound proxy. Usual clients mix up and simplify this21:24
mtnmandoc: as i said, on a normal linux box i can get the functionality i have described.  not so with telepathy.21:24
DocScrutinizerand I'm reading it the err 7th time21:25
DocScrutinizerso it starts getting boring21:25
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mtnmansometimes one has to repeat onesself to get a point across.  it seems i have done so.  thank you for your time.  good day.21:26
DocScrutinizerI explained to you that N900 default SIP is built to work only when registered to a service provider21:26
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* mtnman wanders off to seek an alternative sip client21:27
DocScrutinizerand I dunno if it's part of telepathy or in dialer21:27
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mtnmani wouldn't imagine its part of the dialer, since that would be for outgoing, and we are discussing incoming21:28
mtnmanbut i am not an expert on the n900, just a neophyte21:28
mtnmanperhaps the issue lies with telepathy-sofiasip (the connection manager)21:29
ysssGA: yes, i understand. my comment was directed to joerg. judging by the delay in response, i'm guessing we were desynched (or something... i haven't been on irc for quite sometime heh)21:31
DocScrutinizerysss: I missed that21:32
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DocScrutinizeraah no, seen it21:32
ysssnvm, just a social commentary of win vs osx vs linux ;)21:33
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DocScrutinizerwhich is a non-rewarding topic anyway21:33
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* DocScrutinizer just recalls he missed reporting about last 5 months h-e-n donations to co-devels. Which were exactly zero for each month21:34
ysssaye21:34
yssswhere is that21:35
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yssswe need to have a consolidated thread that lists all ongoing project with a clickable donation button21:35
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DocScrutinizerwhy would anybody wan to donate to a project he doen't know the "frontpage" of?21:36
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Siceloi'm one of those who donated $0.0021:36
Sicelono credit card, paypal, etc.. but willing to donate21:37
Sicelo:(21:37
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ysssa little bit of extra exposure doesn't hurt21:38
DocScrutinizersure, Mohammad once had the idea to integrate a donation button to the "about" page of h-e-n GUI. This could probably have doubled the flood of money coming in, so we all could have gotten 2 times eating pizza instead of one time ;-)21:40
DocScrutinizer(all = the core "devel" team of h-e-n)21:41
ysssi'd be interested to hear about the logistics of buying a pizza and splitting them up to the distributed team members ;)21:42
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DocScrutinizeror let me put it this way: it costs more than the available amount of donated money to manage the donations21:42
ysssi'd imagine so21:43
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Sicelobut h-e-n is the greatest thing to have happened to my 3-week old N900. \0/ to the team21:57
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OkropNickwhat is h-e-n?21:59
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Sicelohostmode, allowing connection of usb devices on your N90022:00
OkropNickthanks for explanation22:01
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Siceloyw..22:04
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DocScrutinizer~h-e-n22:05
infobot[hostmode] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode-charging22:05
DocScrutinizerSicelo: thanks for the positive feedback :-)22:06
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Sicelo:)22:14
DocScrutinizerysss: :-)))))22:15
ysssyo22:15
yssspizza arrived? :D22:15
DocScrutinizernot yet22:15
DocScrutinizeron my way to get one, literally22:15
yssshaha22:16
ysssw22:16
ysssell you've earned it22:16
ruskieaww /me wanted to deploy a wormhole to redirect the delivery guy22:16
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fusiyou know...22:51
fusii take back what i said bout my hsf22:51
fusisort of22:51
fusitook a straw and a bit of lung power to it22:51
fusiand im idling back down at ~45c22:51
fusihehe22:51
fusiit was *slightly* gunked ^^22:51
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fusii really need to get a better one22:54
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DocScrutinizerhsf?22:56
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fusiheatsinkfan23:06
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DocScrutinizeraah23:26
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smegheadzhowdy guys23:54
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Sicelo_hey smegheadz23:55
smegheadzwhats up23:56
smegheadzi'm not much of an IRC user lil rusty23:56
fusijust bought 2 of those scud batteries :)23:57
smegheadzwhat are they?23:57
NIN101http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1022505 did this actually work for somebody recently? With the summer edition kernel of meego and the modules from it it does not work for me (from debian, but shouldn't be a difference actually). While mounting & reading works, I'm getting "error -74 while writing...". I don't have any bad PEB and also maemo works very fine. Could it be related to CONFIG_MTD_ONENAND_VERIFY_WRITE=y?23:57
fusihttp://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/601765/209996492-436082429/Lithium-ion-Battery-for-Nokia-BL-5J-5230-5800XM-5233-N900-1420mAh-Free-Shipping.html23:57
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smegheadzjust had a look fusi. there's a thread on tmo where someone is testing alt batteries for the n900 and posting what they really give.23:59
fusiyer, i got that link to that batt from there (:23:59
fusihttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65568&highlight=battery23:59
smegheadzthats the one.23:59

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