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| Tsuyo | Is there a way to change the wlan-power? In the connection settings you can change the power-save mode. Is there a way to change it via python/dbus? | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| Shapeshifter | mh. that's too bad, urxvt with perl from debian got compiled with 'libafterimage' support. | 00:05 |
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| DMRC86 | hi.. could someone help me with packaging app to maemo (N900)? | 00:09 |
| DMRC86 | i can make deb package, install goes successfully but app binary is missing | 00:09 |
| DMRC86 | when i try to test it with simulator, I get this: "chmod: /opt/usr/bin/App: No such file or directory" | 00:10 |
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| RichiH | is there a way to extract WI-FI passwords from a stock N810? | 00:18 |
| DMRC86 | can anybody help me? | 00:18 |
| ShadowJK | hm, what would be trying to run chmod? | 00:20 |
| DMRC86 | No such file or directory | 00:21 |
| DMRC86 | i make this at QtCreator @ Windows | 00:21 |
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| DMRC86 | ShadowJK, here's compile.. http://pastebin.com/Xgf4bJDC | 00:23 |
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| giardia | hi all | 00:26 |
| ShadowJK | I'm not familiar with qt creator, but it looks almost like it failed due to missing perl? That's wtf | 00:27 |
| giardia | im trying to installa the last version of Kasvopus on my N900, but it request libqtm-11-declarative e mcsp . how to solve this? | 00:28 |
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| * ShadowJK doesn't see kasvopus in extras | 00:29 | |
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| Shapeshifter | so I just installed the maemo sdk again. now, after the sbox_ctl start and login, it says You dont have active target in scratchbox chroot. and that I should run sb-menu. Runnig sb-menu just hangs, and doing sb-conf select FREMANTLE_ARMEL like the wiki says gives me sb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | <ShadowJK> I'm not familiar with qt creator, but it looks almost like it failed due to missing perl? That's wtf | 00:36 |
| MohammadAG | Windows, think it's mingw | 00:37 |
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| ShadowJK | giardia, in that case you need to manually install the dependencies with apt-get first, I guess.. | 00:38 |
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| ShadowJK | The reason for having repositories is that dependencies are figured out automatically, and a convenient place to find everything :) | 00:41 |
| Shapeshifter | Or is it normal that sb-menu just makes python eat some cpu for half an eternity? | 00:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | Oh there we go. Had to prepend TERM=xterm. They even reported it as a bug... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8258 terrible. | 00:45 |
| povbot | Bug 8258: sb-menu freezes with an unknown TERM | 00:45 |
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| Shapeshifter | argh and the wiki doesn't say anything about what to pick when creating a target | 00:48 |
| Shapeshifter | and I can't even remember doing this last time. | 00:48 |
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| hawai`i | Anybody discussing the N9 seconds video clues? | 01:49 |
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| O_NunoPereira | in<< | 01:53 |
| hawai`i | Okay. | 01:53 |
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| hawai`i | Well, actually let's go into #n9seconds | 01:53 |
| hawai`i | I'm sure nobody here cares. | 01:54 |
| O_NunoPereira | lol, i bet some do | 01:54 |
| hawai`i | Whenver the dashboard is shown, monocle.com is always an open browser window. | 01:55 |
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| edheldil_ | Hi, how should I create finger-scrollable controls(QTextEdit) with Qt? | 02:15 |
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| Shapeshifter | oh for crying out loud, what a piece of garbage scratchbox is | 02:31 |
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| Shapeshifter | a normal 'dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot' to build rxvt-unicode gives me some crap about '/scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a: could not read symbols: File in wrong format'. Then I read that it has something to do with speed optimizations in crapbox... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1954 All they suggest, including SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE simply doesn't work. So it uses ... | 02:35 |
| povbot | Bug 1954: Scratchbox makes building extensions to target Perl, Python etc awkward | 02:35 |
| Shapeshifter | This is incredibly messed up and useless. | 02:35 |
| Shapeshifter | ... /scratchbox/tools/bin/perl which is "This is perl, v5.8.4 built for i686-linux-thread-multi", which is useless for building for armel. But there's /usr/bin/perl, which is "This is perl, v5.8.3 built for arm-linux-gnueabi-thread-multi", yet if I simply do export PATH=/usr/bin:$PATH so that this comes first, then configure complains "checking for /usr/bin/perl suitability... configure: error: no working perl found, or perl not ... | 02:35 |
| Shapeshifter | ... version >= 5.8" which is bullshit anyway, as it's clearly 5.8.3 | 02:35 |
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| infobot | Okay, I'm here. (courtesy of docscrutinizer) | 02:43 |
| nox- | ~docscrutinizer | 02:44 |
| infobot | methinks docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 02:44 |
| Mousey | infobot: asl? | 02:44 |
| infobot | Old enough, yes please, my place. | 02:44 |
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| Termana | good morning | 02:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Termana: morning | 03:00 |
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| Shapeshifter | scratchbox is killing me. | 03:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait til you have the pleasure to fight aegis | 03:30 |
| Shapeshifter | what's that? | 03:30 |
| nox- | heh | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 03:31 |
| infobot | methinks aegis is http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism | 03:31 |
| jiero | Is here anybody porting python games? | 03:31 |
| Shapeshifter | sounds great. Though "luckily", Nokia won't sell me an N950 and I'm not at all interested in the N9, so I'll never experience the joy. | 03:32 |
| Shapeshifter | though that's great, tc in a mobile phone, that's really something we need, isn't it. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | Shapeshifter: it's the thing that, when you edit a python script on device that's been installed with a manifest (list of required permissions), simply nukes your system | 03:32 |
| Shapeshifter | Fun | 03:33 |
| Shapeshifter | Fun for many hours I assume | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, extreme fun | 03:33 |
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| nox- | looks like n900 is the first and last nokia smartphone that doesnt need to be `jailbroken'... :/ | 03:33 |
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| Shapeshifter | though I have to say, developing for the iphone is a lot less painful | 03:34 |
| Shapeshifter | well, I mean the SDK part. | 03:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and even more fun there's not even a proper manpage or anything explaining if and how you could query if a file is protected that way. Just edit it and either it works or you get a "please reflash!" requester after the instant reboot | 03:34 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: oh wow. | 03:35 |
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| nox- | tho that wouldnt be the first undocumented linux thing :P | 03:37 |
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| * nox- feels evil linking to another rant: http://www.shiningsilence.com/dbsdlog/2010/04/09/5713.html | 03:42 | |
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| Shapeshifter | But seriously, how am I supposed to compile this now | 03:43 |
| Shapeshifter | it's impossible | 03:44 |
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| Shapeshifter | either this happens http://pastie.org/2282229 (trying to use arm perl) or this happens http://pastie.org/2282237 (default, using host perl) | 03:48 |
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| villager | Shapeshifter: what does config.log say then? | 03:53 |
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| villager | urxvt apparently wants to link to libperl, so the arm perl is probably the one to work on | 03:55 |
| Shapeshifter | villager: what from config.log do you need to know? It says a bunch of stuff about perl, such as PERLLIB='-Wl,-E -L/usr/local/lib /scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/auto/DynaLoader/DynaLoader.a -L/scratchbox/tools/lib/perl5/5.8.4/i686-linux-thread-multi/CORE -lperl -lnsl -ldl -lm -lcrypt -lutil -lpthread -lc' | 03:57 |
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| Shapeshifter | in the host perl case. let me switch to the other | 03:57 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: I assume the arm libperl-dev actually is installed? | 03:58 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: since it needs to link to libperl, you can't use the host one | 03:58 |
| Shapeshifter | villager: yes, everthing listed by apt-cache search extutils is installed, including that one | 03:58 |
| Shapeshifter | well then config.log just says configure:11803: error: no working perl found, or perl not version >= 5.8. it doesn't get any farther than that. | 03:59 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: anything before that? perhaps you can put the config.log on that pastebin | 03:59 |
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| Shapeshifter | villager: http://paste.xinu.at/eAj/ here's config.log | 04:01 |
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| villager | hmm | 04:01 |
| Shapeshifter | here's configure http://paste.xinu.at/ejDt/ somewhere around line 11644 it starts detecting perl | 04:02 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: can I get the source code from somewhere? | 04:02 |
| Shapeshifter | in 11729 it does if $PERL -MExtUtils::Embed -e "use v5.8" which is the reason it fails | 04:02 |
| villager | configure.ac is usually slightly easier to read than configure | 04:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | villager: I got the source from here http://packages.debian.org/lenny/rxvt-unicode (right side, all three source packages, extracting the dsc) | 04:03 |
| Shapeshifter | http://paste.xinu.at/i4ED/ configure.ac | 04:03 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: okay, and if you use that command manually in scratchbox, does it say anything interesting? | 04:03 |
| Shapeshifter | villager: Can't locate ExtUtils/Embed.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .). | 04:04 |
| Shapeshifter | BEGIN failed--compilation aborted. | 04:04 |
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| Shapeshifter | but ExtUtils/Embed.pm is in no maemo package. | 04:04 |
| Shapeshifter | or at least I can't find it. | 04:04 |
| Shapeshifter | and I tried installing it through cpan but it asked me a billion questions I wasn't able to answer. | 04:05 |
| villager | hmm | 04:05 |
| wblaze | Shapeshifter: can't you just accept the defaults? | 04:05 |
| wblaze | usually, if you don't know the answer, the default works for you :p | 04:05 |
| Shapeshifter | wblaze: I tried that but it doesn't work. | 04:05 |
| wblaze | ...strange | 04:05 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: should be in the perl-modules package | 04:05 |
| Shapeshifter | nah with scratchbox, it kinda gets values from the host system and it's all messed up | 04:05 |
| Shapeshifter | villager: mh you are right | 04:06 |
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| Shapeshifter | /usr/share/perl/5.8.3/ExtUtils/Embed.pm | 04:06 |
| Shapeshifter | that explains it | 04:06 |
| Shapeshifter | @INC contains: /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.8.3 /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.8 /usr/share/perl/5.8 /usr/local/lib/site_perl | 04:06 |
| Shapeshifter | mh. no it doesn't. @INC contains /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 yet it can't find it | 04:07 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: in my scratchbox there's a symlink from 5.8.3 to 5.8, do you have it? | 04:07 |
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| villager | lrwxrwxrwx 1 ovek 1000 5 Nov 21 2010 5.8 -> 5.8.3 | 04:08 |
| Shapeshifter | mh, the problem is the 'local' | 04:08 |
| villager | nah, the /usr/share/perl/5.8 in the @INC should match it if that symlink exists | 04:08 |
| Shapeshifter | @INC contains /usr/local/share/perl/5.8.3 but all the stuff is in /usr/share/perl/5.8.3 | 04:09 |
| Shapeshifter | well /usr/local/share only contains man and no symlinks. | 04:09 |
| villager | you should be looking in /usr/share/perl, not in /usr/local | 04:09 |
| Shapeshifter | I didn't define that INC | 04:10 |
| villager | I know, it's compiled-in default | 04:10 |
| villager | you can't and shouldn't change it | 04:10 |
| villager | so you should just ensure things are as it expects - i.e. like I said, that /usr/share/perl/5.8 is a symlink that points where it should | 04:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | lrwxrwxrwx 1 shapeshifter wheel 5 Jul 28 00:06 /usr/share/perl/5.8 -> 5.8.3 yes I have that symlink | 04:12 |
| villager | okay | 04:12 |
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| Shapeshifter | /usr/share/perl/5.8.3/ExtUtils/Embed.pm exists, /usr/share/perl/5.8 is in INC and the symlink exists. | 04:13 |
| villager | I'll try it here, let's see | 04:14 |
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| Shapeshifter | villager: The only changes I made to the debian package is in debian/rules, I replaced --enable-afterimage by --disable-afterimage and I removed the afterimage dependency from debian/control | 04:16 |
| Shapeshifter | I also replaced xutils by xutils-dev in debian/control | 04:16 |
| villager | it works in my scratchbox at least | 04:18 |
| villager | hmm, why not in yours then | 04:18 |
| Shapeshifter | oh that is strange. | 04:18 |
| Shapeshifter | http://pastie.org/2282355 something in my env? | 04:19 |
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| villager | of course I might have a newer scratchbox because I installed the harmattan sdk, but I don't think it should matter that much | 04:19 |
| Shapeshifter | mh, I just installed the maemo 5 sdk freshly now | 04:20 |
| villager | the fremantle target should still work as before for me I think | 04:20 |
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| villager | at least I've still managed to compile stuff with it since | 04:20 |
| Shapeshifter | The question is, why does perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e "use v5.8.3" give the Can't locate ExtUtils/Embed.pm in @INC error | 04:21 |
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| Shapeshifter | did you also set export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/perl in etc/profile? | 04:21 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: let's just make sure: ls -l /usr/share/perl/5.8/ExtUtils/Embed.pm gives? | 04:21 |
| Shapeshifter | lrwxrwxrwx 1 shapeshifter wheel 39 Jul 28 00:06 /usr/share/perl/5.8/ExtUtils/Embed.pm -> /opt/share/perl/5.8.3/ExtUtils/Embed.pm | 04:22 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: nah, just did it in my shell before starting perl | 04:22 |
| Shapeshifter | ls: /opt/share/perl/5.8.3/ExtUtils/Embed.pm: No such file or directory | 04:22 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: ok, and that /opt thing also exists? | 04:22 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: guess not... it's there for me | 04:22 |
| villager | Shapeshifter: try apt-get install --reinstall perl-modules | 04:22 |
| Shapeshifter | well... | 04:23 |
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| villager | though I suppose other things might be missing too | 04:23 |
| villager | if that file's not there, who knows what else is gone | 04:24 |
| Shapeshifter | I think I know why they're not there. The wiki told me to rm -rf /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/opt; mkdir /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/opt http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#On_x86_and_x86_64_Debian-based_systems | 04:24 |
| villager | it does? | 04:24 |
| Shapeshifter | find rm -rf on that wiki page, the first 2 occurences | 04:25 |
| Shapeshifter | villager: thanks man. | 04:26 |
| villager | still waiting for the webpage to load... this computer is apparently heavily loaded right now | 04:26 |
| villager | or maybe the wiki is slow | 04:26 |
| villager | must be the wiki server, everything else on my computer seems to work fine | 04:27 |
| villager | hm, hitting reload seemed to fix it | 04:27 |
| villager | ah I see | 04:28 |
| villager | I'd rather they suggest using mv to move /opt rather than delete it... | 04:29 |
| Shapeshifter | well it works. yay. | 04:29 |
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| villager | well, maybe they ask you to reinstall the rootstraps afterward?... that sb-conf might do that | 04:29 |
| Shapeshifter | now finally I can go on with some tweaks to make it usable on the n900. or rather, time to go to bed. half past 3 in the morning. | 04:29 |
| Shapeshifter | yes I should reinstall everything | 04:30 |
| Shapeshifter | tomorrow... | 04:30 |
| villager | you did that sb-conf rs for both x86 and armel afterwards? | 04:30 |
| villager | if not it might explain stuff | 04:30 |
| Shapeshifter | afterwards? no that comes before the rm -rf | 04:30 |
| Shapeshifter | first it's the whole thing for X86, then rm -rf, then again for ARMEL | 04:31 |
| villager | there's one after it too | 04:31 |
| Shapeshifter | I see that mkdir /targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/opt is the last thing in that chapter | 04:31 |
| Shapeshifter | the other one is mkdir /targets/FREMANTLE_X86/opt followed by sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL which is the other target | 04:31 |
| villager | hmm, guess those instructions ought to be clarified | 04:32 |
| Shapeshifter | I don't really understand the explanation for that rm -rf, so I'd be the wrong person to do it. | 04:32 |
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| Shapeshifter | I gotta go to bed :< good night. | 04:33 |
| Shapeshifter | and thanks | 04:33 |
| villager | hmm, those instructions seem a bit messed up... things are done in what appears to be an illogical order... | 04:37 |
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| villager | or... maybe they're just outdated, this was written before perl-modules started using /opt, I bet | 04:40 |
| fusi | maemo@maemo-desktop:/scratchbox/users/maemo/home/maemo/workspace/sharedlib$ make | 04:46 |
| fusi | make: *** No rule to make target `prpltwtr_api.c', needed by `prpltwtr_api.o'. Stop. | 04:46 |
| fusi | i am about to explode from anger | 04:46 |
| fusi | anyone good with makefiles here? | 04:46 |
| fusi | ;( | 04:46 |
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| cehteh | fusi: is there a prpltwtr_api.c? | 05:23 |
| fusi | thanks for replying - yea there is | 05:24 |
| fusi | im a bit further along now | 05:24 |
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| fusi | learning as i go | 05:24 |
| fusi | :/ | 05:24 |
| cehteh | correct dir? | 05:24 |
| fusi | ive got it to find the files now, tit was the dir yea | 05:24 |
| fusi | had to move stuff around | 05:25 |
| cehteh | ok | 05:25 |
| fusi | just gotta coax it into seeing glib.h now | 05:25 |
| fusi | its quite happily ignoring my include dits | 05:25 |
| fusi | :( | 05:25 |
| cehteh | heh | 05:25 |
| cehteh | plain make or automake? | 05:26 |
| cehteh | most often this are path bugs | 05:26 |
| fusi | nfi, im writing a file called Makefile and executing make in its dir | 05:26 |
| cehteh | going the manual way :P | 05:27 |
| fusi | dont know of any other o_O | 05:27 |
| fusi | im a total linux noob | 05:27 |
| fusi | \o/ | 05:27 |
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| fusi | out of my warm and cozy wwin32 comfort zone | 05:28 |
| cehteh | windows uses nmake :P | 05:28 |
| cehteh | at least i did when i used it .. which ich 10+ years ago | 05:28 |
| fusi | hidden behind useable gui's | 05:28 |
| cehteh | and nmake is really crap | 05:28 |
| fusi | mmm | 05:29 |
| cehteh | well all build systems suck somehow | 05:29 |
| fusi | just takes time to learn | 05:29 |
| cehteh | is yours project a qt project? | 05:29 |
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| fusi | im trying to make the twitter plugins for conversations work again | 05:29 |
| fusi | -s | 05:30 |
| cehteh | if not you may consider autoconf/automake wich is de-facto standars (but sux too) | 05:30 |
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| cehteh | plain make is nice for small things which you dont want to be portable across platforms | 05:30 |
| fusi | aye thats what i want | 05:31 |
| cehteh | but it easily becomes complicated and stretches the limits when it starts to grow 'historically' | 05:31 |
| fusi | mmm | 05:31 |
| fusi | yea thats what ive got here | 05:31 |
| cehteh | ok | 05:31 |
| fusi | i took the old codebase that works on maemo | 05:31 |
| cehteh | :) | 05:31 |
| cehteh | well go on rtfm :P | 05:31 |
| fusi | and took somme newer source from mikeage (he's updating it for pidgin) | 05:31 |
| fusi | and stuck it togeter into an unholy mess of woe | 05:32 |
| fusi | heheh yea | 05:32 |
| fusi | have been all night | 05:32 |
| cehteh | prolly not a good idea to tamper to much with it while you not know what you do :P | 05:32 |
| fusi | gotta give it time to soak through my thick skull | 05:32 |
| fusi | youre prolly right | 05:32 |
| fusi | biting off too much | 05:33 |
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| fusi | yea | 05:33 |
| fusi | i think ill sleep on it for now | 05:33 |
| fusi | im sweepy | 05:33 |
| fusi | yea | 05:33 |
| fusi | im off | 05:33 |
| fusi | thanks for the advice :) | 05:34 |
| fusi | o/ nn | 05:34 |
| cehteh | cu | 05:34 |
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| thomic | ls | 06:40 |
| thomic | sorry | 06:40 |
| thomic | wrong window ;) | 06:40 |
| luke-jr | http://t.co/ca31My7 | 06:43 |
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| fauxfone | When you boot fresh and open conky for example - are you using any swap? If so, then how much? | 08:08 |
| fauxfone | Is it normal that I'm using just shy of 70megs? | 08:08 |
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| cehteh | fauxfone: likely .. i have about 200MB swap in use usually | 09:26 |
| cehteh | dont care right after a reboot, normal usage matters | 09:27 |
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| fauxfone | cehteh: well, swap isn't supposed to be in use that often, right? I mean, if the design of a device and OS requires swap to be used just to boot.... | 10:06 |
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| robbiethe1st | Erm, IIRC, it's been designed to aggressively swap whatever it can, so there's memory for new programs | 10:07 |
| robbiethe1st | aand the defaults aren't great | 10:08 |
| fauxfone | ah | 10:09 |
| fauxfone | have you changed your swap behavior? | 10:09 |
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| robbiethe1st | Me? yea | 10:09 |
| fauxfone | ah | 10:09 |
| fauxfone | mayb I should | 10:09 |
| fauxfone | you've a thread on it? | 10:09 |
| robbiethe1st | Me? No. Others have | 10:09 |
| robbiethe1st | I've changed swap behavior, transitions, OC'd it... | 10:10 |
| robbiethe1st | it runs *really* nicely now. Only feels sluggish when loading a full topic on Slashdot | 10:10 |
| fauxfone | how big of usability difference? | 10:10 |
| robbiethe1st | Enough, I'd say | 10:10 |
| fauxfone | worried about OC damage? | 10:11 |
| robbiethe1st | I know it will happen sooner or later. But in the short term? Not really | 10:11 |
| robbiethe1st | I did a custom profile, undervolted everything just above crashing | 10:11 |
| robbiethe1st | and it's 100% stable for now. If it stops being stable, I'll know something's failing... | 10:11 |
| robbiethe1st | and well... it'll be time to change stuff and or get a new device. But having done it for ~9 months so far... | 10:12 |
| robbiethe1st | Also, remember, it's not like a desktop: it's only OC'd for literally seconds or minutes each day. So while it might only last a month of constant on time at those speeds... that could easily be 5 years | 10:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless you watch a movie each day | 10:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | or do lots of phonecalls | 10:20 |
| fauxfone | then what happens? | 10:20 |
| fauxfone | why can't it be made to not overclock during over those things? | 10:21 |
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| fauxfone | or something | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | then CPU clocks at full speed | 10:21 |
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| robbiethe1st | Yes | 10:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | browser showing a page with JS in background is also a good way to keep the CPU busy | 10:22 |
| hiemanshu | isnt the CPU OC'ed by default, IIRC the stock speed is 500 | 10:22 |
| robbiethe1st | You can do whatever you want, honestly. Some people set up desktop-widgets with profiles | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: yes | 10:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 10:23 |
| infobot | rumour has it, omap-oc is http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 10:23 |
| robbiethe1st | Well, remember that the CPU will switch between min and max freqs on the fly | 10:25 |
| robbiethe1st | min being 0; it can actually sleep for small fractions of a second | 10:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | not during calls, on video playback, or on browser with JS running mad - AFAIK | 10:26 |
| hiemanshu | yeah, but you dont need to OC unless you are doing something really really cpu intensive for a long while, ex. compiling, and compiling on the phone is a stupid idea anyways | 10:27 |
| robbiethe1st | I, personally found that OCing and dropping the sample-rate to 150ms from 300ms really increased responsiveness | 10:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and on stock kernel attaching USB nails the CPU to always running, tests about CPU clock in this situation, on PK, are still TBD | 10:27 |
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| robbiethe1st | Conky says that it drops to 500mhz min with usb enabled on PK | 10:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so this still isn't fixed yet? | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, fixed for charger | 10:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 10:30 |
| robbiethe1st | Evidently not | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | on charger? | 10:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Yea | 10:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cssu? | 10:33 |
| robbiethe1st | Haven't installed. | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh cssu doesn't do anything to kernel afaik | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ping? | 10:34 |
| * DocScrutinizer loughs while noticing it was him who found that 500MHz CPU on charger idiocy | 10:35 | |
| cehteh | isnt that just some stupid polling which keeps the cpu busy? | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's been like one or two weeks after I switched to PR1.3 ? | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: kernel patch | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | which we all thought should get reverted, iirc | 10:36 |
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| cehteh | yes | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: also see robbiethe1st 's comment, I guess >> it drops to 500mhz min<< means the min CPU clk freq is set to 500 | 10:38 |
| robbiethe1st | well, I dunno about that | 10:38 |
| robbiethe1st | it just never drops below it | 10:38 |
| cehteh | not on usb and charger .. | 10:38 |
| cehteh | well i dont care that much when it is connected | 10:39 |
| cehteh | there are more annoying things | 10:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 10:39 |
| cehteh | someome should get compcache running and packaged | 10:39 |
| cehteh | i wonder if ramz can be backported to the maemo5 kernel | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | just to give fauxfone an idea about OC and what it means when I say ""you have to damn well know what you're doing and why you do OC"" | 10:40 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:40 |
| cehteh | well i have 250 500 and 750 as cpufreq, but anyone must know by himself what he does :P | 10:41 |
| fauxfone | That's confusing because it sounds like there is some mysterious component... I've OC'd many computers in my day, just never a cell phone | 10:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | doing OC for the ImSoGeek and 25% more speed *in some random situations* usually isn't worth it | 10:41 |
| fauxfone | ^agreed | 10:42 |
| cehteh | having 250 500 600 without OC and leaving 550 out is prolly a good idea for anyone who dont want to OC | 10:42 |
| fauxfone | Which is why I asked about the usability experience | 10:42 |
| robbiethe1st | Personally, I find that it doesn't get too hot with 950mhz under max load, so I've got that as my standard max freq; I can go up to 1.15ghz though if I need it | 10:43 |
| cehteh | the 550 state gives only latency when scaling back and is so close to the other frequencies, it makes no sense | 10:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | usability of OC is rather good, modulo the random crashes of gfx core. But damage done is out to anybody's guess | 10:43 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: there are a lot people who fried their devices in some or another way | 10:43 |
| fauxfone | I meant added usability of the phone due to OC | 10:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | that however is marginal | 10:44 |
| robbiethe1st | cehteh: Theoretically. I've seen at best a couple that are definitely CPU related; a number of potential corruption glitches, but nothing that a reflash wouldn't solve | 10:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | things like swappiness etc have WAY more impact | 10:44 |
| cehteh | actually my dsp got hung at 250mhz with too aggressive undervoltage | 10:44 |
| cehteh | robbiethe1st: there are really permantent damaged/destroyed phones .. so beware | 10:45 |
| cehteh | it will happen its just a matter of time and its very specific to any device | 10:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: nope, there are several permanent burnouts reported meanwhile | 10:45 |
| cehteh | for someone it may happen in a few hours, others may survive a few years | 10:45 |
| robbiethe1st | Still, I'm not giving it up. Mainly because it works so well. If things start getting flakey, well, I'll know that there's a problem. it may be too late by then, but... | 10:46 |
| cehteh | 600Mhz is actually OC .. | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | in a sense it is | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | see | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~omap-oc | 10:46 |
| infobot | [omap-oc] http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-08-01.log.html#t2010-08-01T22:16:05 read that!, or and this http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-03-11.log.html#t2011-03-11T03:04:11 | 10:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2nd link | 10:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | power-on-hours allowed at 600 are 23k, while for all other speeds below the chip is specified for 100k h lifetime | 10:47 |
| robbiethe1st | Yes. we all know the theoretical amount | 10:47 |
| robbiethe1st | I'm assuming it'd last about a month if running 100% of the time | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you got a knee from 500->600 = ~1/4 | 10:48 |
| cehteh | well nokia applies also very conservative voltage settings .. i believe that my OC to 750Mhz and much reduced voltage doesnt to more harm than 600Mhz with standard voltage .. but i have absolutely no proof of that | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | 600->800 possibly = 1/10..1/100 | 10:48 |
| robbiethe1st | But, running it for seconds or minutes every day... and I'm undervolting it... | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | of lifetime | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | of lifetime @ 600 | 10:48 |
| robbiethe1st | I know it's lasted for 9 months so far, so... | 10:48 |
| cehteh | DocScrutinizer: is there a formula taking voltage and frequency into account for expected lifetime? | 10:49 |
| robbiethe1st | Look; we've argued this before. I'm not giving it up. If it fails, it'll be my fault. | 10:49 |
| cehteh | yes | 10:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | see electromigration in wikipedia | 10:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | it smewhat suggests the factors and their multipliers | 10:50 |
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| robbiethe1st | And well, if -- when -- mine fails, I'll go find one with a broken screen, use that, and tell everyone what I got from mine. | 10:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not voltage but current. Note please that current can't get reduced by undervolting | 10:50 |
| robbiethe1st | Um, why not? lower voltage = lower current at the same resistance | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: fair enough | 10:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | robbiethe1st: nope, there's SmartReflex | 10:51 |
| robbiethe1st | Which will limit the maximum voltage, anyway | 10:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | SmartReflex basically implements a miniature LDO for each gate on chip, speaking simplified | 10:52 |
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| cehteh | smart reflex isnt enabled normally | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | so reducing core voltage by profiles just reduces the power and also the regulation headroom for those micro-LDOs | 10:53 |
| cehteh | well temperature comes also into account its not only current or? | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: the core voltage ramping part isn't enabled normally for some good reason. You can't switch off the micro-LDO property of smartreflex | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: yes | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | see second link of ~omap-oc | 10:54 |
| robbiethe1st | Though, um, wait... if that's true, how come overvolting allows for higher frequencies? if the internal LDO is regulating it, you shouldn't see much if any gain at all | 10:55 |
| cehteh | anyways with my current settings the device is very rarely and only for short times on 750 (gave some bias for switching) | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | undervolting definitely doesn't help for better OC | 10:55 |
| cehteh | and without the stinky 550 mhz level it falls directly back to 500Mhz | 10:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it *only* reduces power consumption | 10:55 |
| robbiethe1st | No, overvolting | 10:55 |
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| cehteh | nope but less power means less temperature | 10:56 |
| cehteh | less voltage | 10:56 |
| cehteh | after all i am aware that this is highly nontrival and complex | 10:56 |
| cehteh | but well, so far it works for me :P | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | overvolting gives micro LDOs more headroom so they can regulate to a higher voltage on output. Those are dynamically controlled to deliver optimum voltage to the gate they service, depending an a number of sensor inputs | 10:57 |
| cehteh | battery lasts longer, device is responsive and gets less warm | 10:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cehteh: decent tests or it never happened | 10:58 |
| cehteh | blah :P | 10:58 |
| cehteh | send me a device which i can use to test | 10:59 |
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| Fukakai | hello / bonjour ! | 12:49 |
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| pavi | bonjour Fukakai | 12:53 |
| Fukakai | I want to create a web server with my nokia n900, to access with my windows by 80 port ... do you think is it possible ? have you tutorials ? think you | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | yes, it's possible. | 12:55 |
| Fukakai | i have ever install lighthttpd and it work's in local, but I can't access with the phone IP ... | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah - that's a routing problem then | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | what do you mean by 'by the phone ip' | 12:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Over the phone net? | 12:56 |
| Fukakai | i have a widget where i can see IP gprs0 10.62.27... | 12:57 |
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| Sicelo | NAT :) same boat as i am | 12:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 12:57 |
| SpeedEvil | Fukakai: that's not a real IP | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | 99.999% of phone providers put you behind a NAT. | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | You can never make inbound connections to the phoe. | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | phone | 12:58 |
| Fukakai | I've try with this IP, and with the IP I have find to my www.mon-ip.com/ | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | This is - generally - a good thing - as 'background radiation' from probes ad stuff would eat your battery life. | 12:58 |
| SpeedEvil | But is annoying if you want to. | 12:59 |
| cehteh | openvpn ftw | 12:59 |
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| Sicelo | i can be reached from the www cehteh by using openvpn? | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Sicelo: Sort-of | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Sicelo: you setup a VPN to a server. | 13:00 |
| cehteh | you need some endpoint reachable from www | 13:00 |
| SpeedEvil | Then you make that server route inbound connections down the VPN | 13:00 |
| Sicelo | thanks. :) /me will look into it | 13:01 |
| SpeedEvil | It might be worthwhile at this point to ask what you're trying to do - there may be other ways that are simpler. | 13:01 |
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| Fukakai | XD sorry i don't understand all, it's new for me ^^ | 13:02 |
| Sicelo | well, i always use Reverse SSH for remote access.. but would like to show off an http server ;) | 13:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah. | 13:02 |
| SpeedEvil | You can do webserver over that pipe | 13:02 |
| SpeedEvil | I think | 13:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Can't you make a reverse ssh connection do SOCKS proxying somehow? | 13:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Nevermind the obvious route of simply using a reverse ssh on port 80 | 13:03 |
| Fukakai | ok, i see | 13:04 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be nice if there were some way to 'sign' your accesses. | 13:05 |
| pavi | Fukakai, what about doing it on wireless at home , wireless will give you an ip for sure | 13:05 |
| Sicelo | problem in that case, at least aiui, reverse ssh suffers from fact that the person accessing my webserver will have to have login rights to the server first. :/ | 13:05 |
| SpeedEvil | So that you could have connections only connecting if the connector had your key | 13:05 |
| pavi | and configuring the router should be easy | 13:05 |
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| Fukakai | pavi, i have a router and an ip yes, but i want the server can stay up all the time XD in the street ... | 13:08 |
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| pavi | On the go mobile server , thats ambitious :) | 13:10 |
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| Fukakai | yes XD | 13:10 |
| Fukakai | i'm going to try the reverse ssh solution, thinks for help :D | 13:11 |
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| Sicelo | you will find it on the wiki | 13:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sicelo: Err - no | 13:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Sicelo: You setup ssh to port forward any connection on port 80 to the phoes port 80 | 13:26 |
| SpeedEvil | No auth required | 13:26 |
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| Fukakai | ... but i don't understand, i need to ping my phone to configure ssh, isn't it ? | 13:29 |
| SpeedEvil | You need to configure your phone so it has a ssh tunnel always logged in to the server | 13:30 |
| Sicelo | oh wow! the power of ignorance. thanks SpeedEvil | 13:31 |
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| Fukakai | sorry, i understand, i'm going to do that :) | 13:35 |
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| chem|st | o_O | 13:47 |
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| ruskie | hmm other than the FM chip in the N900 anyone know of any USB FM tuners that work (well?) on linux? | 14:05 |
| robbiethe1st | No clue; I haven't needed any... | 14:07 |
| robbiethe1st | hell, I don't use the one on my N900, let alone anything else | 14:07 |
| robbiethe1st | Why not use your N900 as your FM tuner; route audio over usb network? | 14:07 |
| MohammadAG | wl1271? | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | why would anybod listen to FM radio | 14:07 |
| jacekowski | you can get same stuff over interweb | 14:08 |
| mgedmin | jacekowski, connection drops, media player doesn't retry but goes to new item in the playlist etc. | 14:08 |
| mgedmin | i.e. new tech not as reliable as old tech | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | mgedmin: you can change that | 14:08 |
| jacekowski | i possibly see way how that could sell | 14:09 |
| jacekowski | i'll have to check costs of making something like that and maybe make profit on it | 14:09 |
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| ruskie | jacekowski, lag | 14:12 |
| ruskie | is the main reason | 14:12 |
| ruskie | it has a slight lag compared to radio | 14:12 |
| ruskie | and since the distance of where I would like to run the fm tuner is like 5m away from the other radio this would be highly annoying | 14:12 |
| Sicelo | and some of us don't have access to data that easily :( | 14:12 |
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| ruskie | the one device I found is sadly only a newer revision which is not supported while the older one is | 14:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: maybe because FMRX works like 40h while internet radio over GPRS works maybe 3h ? | 15:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pavi: is bq27200 module still auto-loaded on PK? | 15:47 |
| pavi | DocScrutinizer, wrong person or typo ? | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, aren't you maintaining powerkernel? | 15:47 |
| pavi | I have no idea what PK is or bq* is | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooh pali ? | 15:48 |
| pavi | DocScrutinizer, no way | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 15:48 |
| pavi | I am a dumb newbie | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | mental typo | 15:48 |
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| ruskie | lol | 15:48 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, Pali's on | 15:56 |
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| chem|st | andre__: the server cert of b.m.o is popping up as outdated... in my browser... | 16:18 |
| chem|st | Pali: 14:47 < DocScrutinizer> pavi: is bq27200 module still auto-loaded on PK? | 16:19 |
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| Pali | I think yes. I was not removed board-rx51 patch | 16:22 |
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| andre__ | chem|st, okay? file a bug or ping X-Fade or so? | 16:23 |
| andre__ | nothing I can change. | 16:23 |
| chem|st | X-Fade: ping, read above | 16:24 |
| chem|st | andre__: thanks | 16:24 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer: and in KP is this patch (so maybe bme can live together with bq) https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/ggit/browse.php/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/i2c-battery.diff;h=5e59c8920591879683deae6a9ce3e4ce9ae86c3d;hb=HEAD | 16:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: this is an extremely critical patch, that has potential to break a _lot_ of things, if there are any races or reentrance issues or other unforeseen side effects. I'd not dare to use it without review by at least 10 first grade kernel hacker cracks | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: the worst thing about it is you won't know for which symptoms to look, it could be everything from kernel oops to endlessly looping code, to collisions on I2C bus that cause chips to misbehave or even break | 16:39 |
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| Pali | this patch was in KP since v45 | 16:42 |
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| Pali | I and other people dit not report any problems | 16:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, I know of a lot of problem reports with unclear symptoms and unknown reasons | 16:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and for this class of patch not even a problem free use on a million device-hours means anything. Such patch needs source level evaluation and validation, to make sure there are no side effects and possible race conditions | 16:47 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | so I just noticed that my ipv6 isnt working anymore | 16:47 |
| Sazpaimon_ | gprs1 isnt coming up | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to check and proove there can't happen collisions on concurrent access to I2C bus | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to check all systems that access I2C driver that they all don't rely on the -EBUSY behaviour | 16:48 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | uh | 16:49 |
| Sazpaimon_ | what | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus you need to have a concept to make sure nobody in future will run into problems when relying on -EBUSY here | 16:49 |
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| Sazpaimon_ | oh you must not be talking to me | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sazpaimon_: indeed, I was answering to Pali | 16:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | ok | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry for being a bit slow | 16:51 |
| Sazpaimon_ | i wonder if tmobile disabled my ipv6 address | 16:52 |
| Sazpaimon_ | not sure why that would happen though | 16:53 |
| Pali | this kernel patch was added by Matan in v45 and I did not removed any added patch in >=v47 | 16:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: you're changing the API semantics, and you're gambling with hardware management which needs evaluation on an abstract level for correctness, see problem of proof of race condition free design that can't be done by tests | 16:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just urgently suggesting not to keep this patch, it's pretty dangerous | 16:54 |
| Pali | Ok, I ask Matan about his patch | 16:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically this patch seems to allow two processes access the same register in same chip on same I2C bus concurrently, which can never work but is happening rarely but definitely *will* happen eventually. This can cause any arbitrary problem, from garbled transmission on I2C bus causing chip malfunctions and breakage, to kernel panics or whatever | 17:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | any patch implementing this at very least needs to come with an abstract evaluation explaining all the issues that have been considered, what's the way they would happen, and why the author thinks they can not happen. | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bare minimum is a bold warning "not been evaluated and confirmed for any side effects - expect complete system breakdown when using this patch" | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oooh Matan | 17:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | last I heard was Matan gone trolling | 17:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway it's duty of package maintainer to evaluate a patch and decide whether or not to include it to the package (here: to power-kernel). Matan can explain his patch, but it's finally up to the maintainer (which I gather was titan for this patch) to include or reject the patch, ideally after discussing it with some other guys involved | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | and yes, I actually heard reports about weird behaviour of (iirc) bme not working correctly on PK even after rmmod of bq27200 module. Now I see a possible reason | 17:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway note that this patch has impact on *all* I2C subsystems | 17:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | which is enough on its own to reject it | 17:40 |
| Shapeshifter | Does someone know of the top of the head if there's a cli tool packaged for maemo for reading exif data from images? | 17:41 |
| Shapeshifter | also, does someone know which package contains 'file'? | 17:42 |
| ruskie | usually file | 17:42 |
| Shapeshifter | oh, indeed. | 17:42 |
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| Shapeshifter | ah nevermind | 17:43 |
| Shapeshifter | I could just use apt-cache right away next time -.- | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 17:44 |
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| ShadowJK | Also, individual apps can, if they wish, request either exclusive or non-exclusive access, and force override of exclusive access by others... So it's not like there aren't already enough options available to userspace, you don't need more kludges in kernel... | 17:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ack. The bq27200 module is borked, and the patch to i2c-dev tries to fix that (well to bq27200.ko's excuse I have to mention it's basically bme that is borked :-D ) | 18:00 |
| mase_76 | Hi! Anybody repo admins here? A wrong package version went into stable. | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: anyway patching i2c-dev - WTF :-O | 18:00 |
| ShadowJK | Well, in MeeGo bme actually uses the kernel module.. But the kernel module doesn't export everything, so I like to unload bme and kernel module anyway | 18:01 |
| ShadowJK | yes, wtf :) | 18:01 |
| ShadowJK | The headless-chicken tendencies like these are why I've never dared touch powerkernel | 18:01 |
| ShadowJK | or cssu ;) | 18:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I can well feel with you | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | while we are at it, let's patch a special priority for pulseaudio into scheduler ;-P | 18:03 |
| * ShadowJK is reminded of the people complaining their filesystems corrupt in 3 days | 18:03 | |
| ShadowJK | if pulseaudio runs at RT, it's essentially a special priority anyway | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | "I added 87 patches to the fs driver, and still it's not working" ? ;-) | 18:04 |
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| ShadowJK | ah it's not RT | 18:04 |
| mase_76 | The problem is, that a wrong version of ghostscript went into stable. So cups (also in stable) is not installable. | 18:04 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, more like "stupid unstable shit, I overclocked to 1500 and it STILL crashes" ;p | 18:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mase_76: HARD to fix | 18:05 |
| mase_76 | But not impossible I think. | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | mase_76: btw what is "stable"? | 18:05 |
| mase_76 | extras | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | file a ticket, ping x-fade | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ping the maintainer of the buggy package (ghostscript?) | 18:07 |
| mase_76 | I'm from Debian, so I call it stable, sorry! I am the maintainer. | 18:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah even better | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | ping x-fade | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | he can help | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | no need to file a ticket ;-) | 18:08 |
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| ShadowJK | re bme coexistence with other things, if you really want to do that, you probably want to create a LD_PRELOAD library to intercept the i2c requests bme sends, take the data from the kernel module in /sys/ and feed it back to bme. That would be the safe option | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | YEAH! | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | IF anybody would care to untergo this useless exercise ;-D | 18:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | under* | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so *hotfix* - what to do? Copy the old aka stock i2c-dev.ko to powerkernel? | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | prbably won't fly due to vermagic | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless you force it | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh I'd be surprised to find i2c-dev being a module at all :-S | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | as the CPU controls SmartReflex via I2C, so it will be needed pretty early in boot | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | needs a fixed PK version then | 18:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yoh, no *i2c*.ko | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: 2 devels with an idea of kernel suggest this patch MUST go, urgently | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's dangerous to the point of potentially damaging hardware | 18:21 |
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| Pali | ok, I drop this patch | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: you are PK maintainer, so it's up to you to decide. You don't need Matan's or even titan's OK | 18:24 |
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| Pali | solution with LD_PRELOAD for bme sounds good, but who know what all is needed in new library? | 18:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: first question is: why do we need it at all? | 18:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nobody is depending on bq27200 module | 18:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (btw you obviously need to drop this module as well, for autoload on boot) | 18:27 |
| ShadowJK | the module can exist, just can't load it on boot | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | for LD_PRELOAD we need to override the calls that open and read/write to I2C. I gather that'S normal fopen and friends | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: that's what I meant to say | 18:29 |
| ShadowJK | iirc something tries to make use out of the module, I've seen people complain "lshal" has multiple battery voltage measurements | 18:29 |
| ShadowJK | it's all ioctl actually :/ | 18:29 |
| Pali | yes, i know. but I think that bq is usefull hor host mode (when bme is stopped) | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so s/fopen/ioctl/ | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: not really | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least h-e-n itself relies on i2ctools, I.E. it probably will fail when this module is loaded | 18:30 |
| ShadowJK | I wonder how that data was taken from /sys and stuffed into hal | 18:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: MohammadAG 's battery-applet rewrite? | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | not sure | 18:31 |
| ShadowJK | ah well, as I don't use cssu or pk I'm not affected by all the dangerous stuff anyway :P | 18:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Pali: please include a reference to my rant above to the commit dropping this patch, otherwise in 2 weeks somebody else checks it in again | 18:33 |
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| ShadowJK | if this stuff breaks, and two things are bitbanging addresses onto the i2c bus at the same time, and stuff explodes/crashes/dies, they'll have no clue what just happened | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed - LOL | 18:34 |
| chem|st | is this a problem of cssu too? or just KP? | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | just PK | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | KP whatever | 18:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer hates Inverse Polish Notation in natural speech | 18:36 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | the car police fast down drives street empty the | 18:38 |
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| mgedmin | did you learn forth or what? | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | or did you meet yoda? | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | kernel power | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | object:kernel, property:power | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | is just powerkernel for me each day, short PK | 18:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | as kernel-hm is hostmode kernel, and kernel-fremantel-1.3-foo-bla is stock kernel | 18:42 |
| Pali | Ok, I disabled i2c-battery.diff in my git repo and recompiling kernel deb packages | 18:42 |
| Pali | also disabled autoloading bq | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | check for etc/modules (?) to disable auto-modprobing of bq27200 on boot | 18:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, k :-D | 18:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: many thanks for taking care | 18:43 |
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| Pali | bq autoloading was done in board-rx51*.c | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, nfi here | 18:44 |
| Pali | kernel-power (never?) did not touched /etc/modules so users can add/remove lines | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | just stamp the patch "DEPRECATED! breaks API, may kill your hardware" | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | that also explains a bit | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | ( board-rx51*.c ) | 18:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | several weeks ago there were 2 users same day in this channel that has issues with PK, regarding some odd behaviour of bme IIRC. I wasn't able to talk them thru disabling bq27200 :-P | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/that has/ who had/. | 18:48 |
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| Pali | I'm still not maintainer of kernel-power-modules, kernel-power-flasher, ... packages | 18:56 |
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| Pali | I'm still on pending list on maemo.org package interface | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: this has to change, definitely | 18:56 |
| Pali | who can give me permitions? | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | maintainer of kernel should be same as for modules etc | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | how did you receive mainainership for PK? | 18:57 |
| Pali | I got permitions only for package kernel-power and kernel-power-source | 18:57 |
| Pali | I do not know. One day I found my name on the list | 18:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess the process would be the same as for PK | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 18:57 |
| Pali | see: http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power and http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-modules | 18:58 |
| Pali | and also other kernel-power-* packages | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | after 2000 years, another virgin birth :-D | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: ask MohammadAG - I think he knows a friggin lot about it | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: ping ^^^ | 18:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: (10 lines backscoll) | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | o/ bbl | 19:00 |
| Pali | and maemo.org package interface has still bug - it does not see new version v47 of kernel-power | 19:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | x-fade | 19:01 |
| Pali | I tried contact him, but without responce (IRC and mail) | 19:02 |
| Pali | I also reported bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12284 | 19:03 |
| povbot | Bug 12284: kernel-power in maemo.org package interface | 19:03 |
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| NIN101 | the SSL cert expired. | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~seen X-Fade | 19:11 |
| infobot | x-fade is currently on #maemo (9d 16h 28m 30s) #meego (9d 16h 28m 30s). Has said a total of 57 messages. Is idling for 1d 7h 36m 16s, last said: 'arfoll: Hehe, cool stuff.'. | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: recently you need luck to get a hold of X-Fade on IRC, but occasionally it may happen | 19:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless you also got on his ignore list ;-D | 19:14 |
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| TimmyT1 | what things are included in the n900 package? i've bought one, but there is no disc in its package | 19:21 |
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| TimmyT1 | what things are included in the n900 package? i've bought one, but there is no disc in its package | 19:28 |
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| villager | TimmyT1: from memory: n900, battery, usb charger, handsfree, user guide | 19:34 |
| villager | oh yeah, and tv-out cable | 19:35 |
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| villager | TimmyT1: so no disc... any electronic user guide is preinstalled on the n900 itself | 19:37 |
| TimmyT1 | villager: Gh0sty: anything else? this pic shows that it has another thing : http://wapreview.com/images/N900Accessories.jpg | 19:38 |
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| TimmyT1 | under the phone | 19:39 |
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| villager | TimmyT1: let's see... wall charger, usb charger, extra earbuds for handsfree, n900, cleaning cloth, handsfree, manual, adapter for old-style nokia charger to new micro-usb, user guide, tv-out cable | 19:40 |
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| villager | yup I think that's all on that picture | 19:42 |
| Gh0sty | heh lets move here :p | 19:42 |
| Gh0sty | cause I said the same on #n900 :p | 19:42 |
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| mgedmin | how many channels are there???? | 19:42 |
| mgedmin | related to nokia tablets | 19:42 |
| Gh0sty | just #maemo and #n900 afaik? :p | 19:42 |
| TimmyT1 | Gh0sty: thnx | 19:43 |
| Gh0sty | well you also got #meego but thats hardly official | 19:43 |
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| Gh0sty | not that these are in any way original | 19:43 |
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| TimmyT1 | villager: tnx | 19:43 |
| Gh0sty | TimmyT1: if you just bought it perhaps this can give you some clues: | 19:43 |
| Gh0sty | http://www.ugov.be/documents/2010-01-12_N900_and_maemo/ | 19:44 |
| Gh0sty | see the odp file | 19:44 |
| Gh0sty | a small presentation I did for the local linux user group for some people with an n900 | 19:45 |
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| rm_work | there's at least also #harmattan :P | 19:45 |
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| lcuk | and 'meego-arm for other arm related things | 19:46 |
| lcuk | #meego-arm rather | 19:46 |
| hiemanshu | and -handset too | 19:47 |
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| Gh0sty | and on other irc servers theres also a debian on n900 or something channel | 19:48 |
| mgedmin | I'm logging maemo maemo-testing maemo-meeting maemo-bugs maemo-devel maemo-ui maemo-ssu meego harmattan | 19:48 |
| Gh0sty | pkg-n900 thats the name :) | 19:48 |
| mase76 | yes, but there seems to be no activity in that channel. | 19:49 |
| mgedmin | which I think is too much already | 19:49 |
| Gh0sty | anyhow | 19:49 |
| Gh0sty | thirsty | 19:49 |
| Gh0sty | time for beer! | 19:49 |
| * mgedmin hungry | 19:50 | |
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| mase76 | yes, but there seems to be no activity in that channel. what problems appeared? i am highly interrested in pkg-n900. i did some experiments with it. | 19:52 |
| mase76 | i tried pkg-n900, kubuntu-mobile and meego. only meego bootet successfully, but it is unusable slow. and no packages available. | 19:54 |
| mase76 | why was uboot disabled in kernel-power 46? | 19:55 |
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| PEHNEP | Hey, people. | 19:57 |
| SpeedEvil | hey | 19:57 |
| mase76 | hi | 19:57 |
| PEHNEP | Is it okay to ask questions here? | 19:58 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 19:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Unless you're juggling. | 19:58 |
| mase76 | i think so. | 19:58 |
| PEHNEP | D'aww.. | 19:58 |
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| PEHNEP | .. I knew I shouldn't have dropped juggling class in highschool.. I simply knew it.. | 19:59 |
| mase76 | just ask | 19:59 |
| PEHNEP | But how comes I can't use the front camera on my N900? | 19:59 |
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| mase76 | use for what? | 20:00 |
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| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: are you there? | 20:00 |
| vi__ | basically this patch seems to allow two processes access the same register in same chip on same I2C bus concurrently, which can never work but is happening rarely but definitely *will* happen eventually. This can cause any arbitrary problem, from garbled transmission on I2C bus causing chip malfunctions and breakage, to kernel panics or whatever | 20:00 |
| vi__ | the meaning of this^ | 20:00 |
| PEHNEP | Taking photos, mainly. | 20:00 |
| mase76 | what application? | 20:00 |
| PEHNEP | I just want to use my front camera to take photos, is this not possible? | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: You can't tell what the state of the chip is. | 20:01 |
| mase76 | does it work in the mirror package? | 20:01 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: which chip? | 20:01 |
| vi__ | bq? | 20:01 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: arbitrary chips | 20:01 |
| PEHNEP | Yeah, the mirror app works fine.. well.. it seems a bit buggy, but it works nontheless. | 20:02 |
| fusi | is there a keyb shortcut to open the included header file on the current line in eclipse? | 20:02 |
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| vi__ | you don't need to | 20:02 |
| vi__ | well you do | 20:02 |
| SpeedEvil | For example - process 1 wants to set a value to 255, process 2 to 512 | 20:02 |
| TimmyT | hi again, wat is maemo's default root password? | 20:02 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: continue | 20:02 |
| PEHNEP | I've tried taking screenshots when using the mirror app, but it simply ends up without showing the actual camera picture in them, where it's supposed to show what it's recording with the camera it'll just be black. | 20:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Process 1 writes 0 to register 1, gets preemted, process 2 writes 2 to register 1, process 2 writes 0 to register 2, then process 1 gets woken again and writes 255 to register 2 | 20:03 |
| mase76 | TimmyT: does it have one? i used gainroot and set it with passwd. | 20:03 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: ...I2C doesnt work like that | 20:04 |
| SpeedEvil | So the actual value set is 767. And if this was a voltage, your chip may explode | 20:04 |
| mase76 | why don't you use the main camera? | 20:04 |
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| TimmyT | mase76: yes it does, when i enter sudo passwd it asks me for old password | 20:04 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: In what way? | 20:04 |
| hiemanshu | TimmyT: do you have rootsh installed? | 20:04 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: The above is simplified - this can happen with any system where the writes are not atomic. | 20:04 |
| mase76 | not sudo. just type root (gainroot). then type passwd. | 20:04 |
| TimmyT | hiemanshu: dunno, i've just bought this phone | 20:05 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: And/or the registers don't always mean the same thing. | 20:05 |
| hiemanshu | TimmyT: install rootsh, in terminal root, and then passwd | 20:05 |
| vi__ | SpeedEvil: say register 1 is a 2 byte register | 20:05 |
| mase76 | hiemanshu: exactly | 20:05 |
| vi__ | I want to write 2 bytes to it | 20:05 |
| mase76 | passwd is not in sudoers. so sudo passwd cannot work. | 20:06 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 20:06 |
| PEHNEP | Mase76, the problem with the main camera is that I can't take proper pictures of myself, and the front camera somehow appeals to me more for this too. | 20:06 |
| vi__ | I2C master:<target chip address(7bits)><write(1 bit)> <--- loaded into tx buffer | 20:07 |
| vi__ | 8 clcoks later this has been written to the I2C bus | 20:07 |
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| vi__ | the I2C slave with the corressponding address 'istens up' | 20:07 |
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| mase76 | try the package phone-control. there is such a function inside. if it works, yo can create a desktop shortcut. | 20:08 |
| vi__ | I2C master: load byte1 to TX buffer | 20:08 |
| vi__ | 8 clocks later, it is transmitted | 20:08 |
| PEHNEP | Alright, thanks for the tip, let's see if that works. | 20:08 |
| vi__ | I2C master load 2nd byte to tx buffer | 20:08 |
| vi__ | 8 clocks later, it is transmitted | 20:08 |
| vi__ | done | 20:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | This assumes that 2 byte writes are possible. | 20:08 |
| mase76 | phone-control --frontcap <path to file> | 20:08 |
| vi__ | the 2 bytes was just an example | 20:09 |
| vi__ | it might be 1 byte | 20:09 |
| vi__ | it might be 10 | 20:09 |
| vi__ | after this the 'read' address of the slave is tx'd | 20:09 |
| vi__ | and any data is clocked back in | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | The above example is more generic. Imagine if the first register is an index byte, and the second one a register that writes to an internal register depending on the value of the index register. | 20:09 |
| PEHNEP | Where could I get the package, mase76? | 20:10 |
| vi__ | to the rx buffer of the I2C/SMBUS controller whatever of the uC | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Not consecutive bytes, so you can't do 2 byte writes | 20:10 |
| vi__ | well the process would not give up control of the I2C bus | 20:10 |
| vi__ | no other hardware would be able to use it | 20:11 |
| mase76 | it is in extras-devel. it is just a script, that uses mostly dbus. it has a lot of other useful functions. | 20:11 |
| vi__ | in that case | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw most chips don't support bulk writes iirc | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | some support bulk reads | 20:11 |
| SpeedEvil | That too, yes. | 20:12 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: so what? as long as each write is finished, that does not mattt | 20:12 |
| vi__ | ^matter | 20:12 |
| vi__ | no process in control of the I2C controller is going to relinquish control mid operation | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: please check the i2c-dev.c source with patch and then tell me if you think commenting out -EBUSY is a good idea | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhuh | 20:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and what is guaranteeing that? -EBUSY | 20:14 |
| SpeedEvil | vi__: operations may take hours | 20:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Or even the entire power cycle | 20:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: esp bulk writes were particularly prone to break when to concurrent access events happen on same I2C bus | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/n to/n two/ | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: status | 20:23 |
| infobot | Since Sat Jul 16 03:48:26 2011, there have been 67 modifications, 874 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 438 commands. I have been awake for 12d 13h 34m 40s this session, and currently reference 118049 factoids. I'm using about 23212 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 3494.87/100.43 child 0/0 | 20:23 |
| PEHNEP | BTW, path to what file, mase76? | 20:23 |
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| mase76 | where to save the picture. | 20:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | test | 20:23 |
| PEHNEP | Ah, cool. | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/st/xx/ | 20:23 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: texx | 20:23 |
| edheldil | what does the volume rocker actually do? Even though I have volume set to mute with it, my app using phonon still plays a file on full volume | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 20:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | edheldil: that's a problem of the obscure policy management in pulseaudio | 20:26 |
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| PEHNEP | Mase76: it keeps talking about a "pipeline0", what does it mean with that? | 20:26 |
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| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: any reference or suggestion? | 20:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, nope | 20:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I just know play-sound cmd also doesn't care about volume setting | 20:28 |
| mase76 | PEHNEP: i don't now. i never used that function. i only saw, that the function is implemented. | 20:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | never looked into PA API and how a "normal" app manages to get volume control | 20:29 |
| PEHNEP | Alright, well thanks any ways. | 20:29 |
| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 20:30 |
| PEHNEP | I'll just try out the hind camera some more or stop with trying to take pictures as a whole, to save myself massive headache :P | 20:30 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer: And what happen if I will use i2cget without i2c kernel patch when BME is running? Will be loop bq27200.sh script (which use only i2cget) working together with BME? | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | PEHNEP: using either camera to take snapshots is a oneliner, and is well documented in wiki and on tmo | 20:33 |
| mase76 | how can i get uboot to work again with kernel-power 46? | 20:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: yes, modulo an occasional i2cget returning error "device busy" when it collides with bme doing a read | 20:34 |
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| Pali | so we can patch bq27200.sh script to "try again" when device busy | 20:35 |
| Pali | but can BME live if (sometimes) get device busy? | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: I'm doing exactly that all the time (http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/ ) and never (or only once) seen any problem | 20:36 |
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| vi__ | I wish there was a way to purge this BME filth from my system. | 20:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: yes, bme can handle that | 20:37 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: is there anyway to detect if the charger is plugged in with bme stopped? | 20:38 |
| vi__ | s/if/when | 20:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: worst thing that could happen is bme segfaulting and get immediately restarted by dsme | 20:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | vi__: I'd think yes, you still can query the relevant sysnodes | 20:39 |
| Pali | Ok. And what about rewrite bq kernel module to not exclusive using i2c bus? | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | may work | 20:39 |
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| Pali | then BME will be happy, bq too and scripts some times get device busy | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's exactly what they get right now as well :-D | 20:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | by using i2cget | 20:40 |
| vi__ | is meego bme open? | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I see the demand for a proper sysfs interface to bq27200 | 20:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | vi__: no way | 20:42 |
| edheldil | DocScrutinizer: I have found it, app.SetApplicationName() was missing. Thanks for the nudge | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Pali: alas bq27200 driver as it's now is crippled on top of the property to lock I2c-dev and thus break bme. It needs quite some love to become a clean sysfs interface exposing *all* bq27200 chip data in a nice format | 20:44 |
| Pali | I think that power-supply interface allow adding module defined additional properties | 20:45 |
| Pali | I commited some patches to upstream linux kernel bq27x00_battery which added more standard power-supply properties | 20:46 |
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| fusi | woohoo -o libpurple-twitter-protocol.so | 20:48 |
| fusi | FINALLY | 20:49 |
| fusi | pita | 20:49 |
| vi__ | DocScrutinizer: with BME stopped, is there anyway to detect the charger being plugged in without polling sysfs? | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 20:49 |
| vi__ | bah | 20:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | long answer: VBUS can create a kevent, and on this kevent you can poll the charger sysfs node | 20:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | this read on /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger will execute a detection function in musb_hdrc USB kernel driver that usually spoils hostmode. That's whe main reason why we need to stop bme in h-e-n | 21:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's also the reason why this isn't an active sysnode that can trigger kevents | 21:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's actually meant to get polled | 21:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | while /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-1/1-0048/twl4030_usb/vbus is active, means it creates a kevent when twl4030 detects 5V on VBUS and fires an IRQ | 21:06 |
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| Pali | DocScrutinizer: I forgot this: In kernel-power v47 is backported bq module from upstream which contain module param poll_interval | 21:31 |
| Pali | So we can load bq module with big poll_interval. Does this fix problem with BME? | 21:31 |
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| ruskie | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/28/microsoft_cloudy_home_heating_idea/ <-- hehe | 21:49 |
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| iluminator101 | this is strange when n900 is locked it also goes offline how come? | 22:47 |
| mgedmin | wifi power savings | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | it's not necessarily "offline" per se | 22:48 |
| mgedmin | but with many APs you'll have problems pinging it from the outside | 22:48 |
| iluminator101 | mgedmin, i am not concerned about the wifi but the phone, people are telling they keep calling me its offline | 22:50 |
| iluminator101 | i am in an area there is always signal | 22:50 |
| iluminator101 | well how do i view load up process in n900 in terminal see some program is loading this is doing this | 22:51 |
| iluminator101 | boot up process in terminal i meant* | 22:51 |
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| NIN101 | instead of the "NOKIA" on bootup, you want to see the output of the bootscripts etc.? | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | oh, wow | 22:55 |
| mgedmin | I'm not using my n900 as a phone, can't say anything about that | 22:55 |
| Sicelo | NIN101: i'd be happy to do what u just said. any pointers? | 22:56 |
| NIN101 | frame buffer console | 22:56 |
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| NIN101 | so either compile a kernel with it included or load it on bootup | 22:57 |
| NIN101 | it is shipped with power kernel v47 | 22:57 |
| iluminator101 | NIN101, yea instead of nokia on bootup i want to see output of bootscripts | 22:57 |
| NIN101 | and if you have it already: Open /sbin/preinit | 22:58 |
| NIN101 | Go to the init_system() function. | 22:58 |
| NIN101 | above of the "}" insert: modprobe fbcon. | 22:58 |
| NIN101 | but /sbin/preinit is dangerous probably, one mistake can prevent your device from booting. | 22:59 |
| NIN101 | so if you don't have power kernel v47, you don't need to edit /sbin/preinit anyway. | 23:00 |
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| Sicelo | oh, i have pk47 | 23:01 |
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| Shapeshifter | gah. stupid outdated maemo packages | 23:02 |
| NIN101 | Sicelo: You can do this: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=0qdr09N3 | 23:02 |
| ShadowJK | iluminator101, that's not normal for N900 | 23:02 |
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| Shapeshifter | This is the main problem with the n900 and maemo. Maemo is not maintained like a normal linux distro, it's even more ancient than debian. | 23:03 |
| Shapeshifter | 'it's just a phone' duh. | 23:03 |
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| NIN101 | of course without the last "." | 23:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: Indeed. | 23:04 |
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| Sicelo | ty NIN101. :) | 23:05 |
| Shapeshifter | in the end, this will probably be the reason for buying a newer 'phone'. | 23:06 |
| NIN101 | np | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 23:06 |
| Shapeshifter | because it becomes more and more difficult to build stuff for it and use it with modern software. | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: I'm hoping to put that off far enought hat something open is released. | 23:06 |
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| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: hopefully. | 23:06 |
| SpeedEvil | At the moment nothing truly important to me on the n900 has broken. | 23:06 |
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| SpeedEvil | This could change if a site were to actually require flash 10, for example. | 23:07 |
| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: well, I know porting debian packages is a short cut, but I'm already struggling because new .dsc source files are unreadable by maemo's dpkg-source. Also, debhelper for maemo is outdated and doesn't work with debhelper 6 scripts. | 23:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | :/ | 23:07 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm currently being annoyed that I can't upgrade much past 2.6.33 or so. | 23:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | err | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | 2.6.37 even | 23:08 |
| SpeedEvil | As the support for my iwl3945 driver powersaving is being ripped out. | 23:09 |
| Shapeshifter | well that's a lot more recent than the stock one at least | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Because it doesn't work on some peoples laptops | 23:09 |
| iluminator101 | did anyone switch to meego on n900 full hardware install? | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | oops | 23:09 |
| SpeedEvil | ^in my thinkpad | 23:09 |
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| Shapeshifter | yeah maybe one day meego runs well enough and is maintained well enough for the n900. but the hardware driver issues will remain. | 23:10 |
| Shapeshifter | SpeedEvil: wait, 2.6.38 and later doesn't have powersaving with iwl3945? | 23:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Shapeshifter: no | 23:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | It got disabled as it was unstable for some people. | 23:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Then it got ripped out wholesale. | 23:11 |
| Shapeshifter | huh. then I guess that's bad for me as well | 23:11 |
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| Shapeshifter | I have that in mine | 23:12 |
| Shapeshifter | I run 2.6.39 | 23:12 |
| SpeedEvil | It's about a watt extra | 23:12 |
| Shapeshifter | mh, if it's a real problem, you could install another wlan card, I think that's not very difficult in lap tops. Or even use a dongle | 23:13 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not difficult if you can find one with compatible leads - true | 23:14 |
| SpeedEvil | And if the BIOS doesn't do annoying things to verify the card | 23:15 |
| Shapeshifter | well, it's true though that linux moves rather quickly. for example video drivers. cards becoming obsolete all the time. | 23:16 |
| Sicelo | kewl NIN101. many thanks :) | 23:17 |
| NIN101 | np, yw. | 23:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I've seen nothing ever becoming "obsolete" on linux. Usually just a matter of .configue; make; make install; | 23:18 |
| Shapeshifter | DocScrutinizer: not really if you want to use a modern kernel | 23:18 |
| SpeedEvil | The ideal gold-standard would be for the corporate to employ adaptation people to continue to push patches upstream, or get the kernel to work with later versions over the life-cycle of the product | 23:18 |
| Shapeshifter | at some point, stuff just gets kicked out and then it becomes really hard to stay up to date | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 23:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Worse if there is a kernel ABI change in the way | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | so, except for system switches like on wifi or audio, what's the API breakage that prevents you from using the old sourcecode? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, occasionally kernel devels love to rename /sys/* on random patterns | 23:21 |
| Shapeshifter | now they changed version numbers just for the lulz | 23:22 |
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| Shapeshifter | well, linus did. | 23:22 |
| Shapeshifter | breakage ensues. | 23:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you go back far enough, you end up pretty much needing to do linux-from-scratch. | 23:24 |
| SpeedEvil | For your package | 23:24 |
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| Shapeshifter | if only debs were easier to handle :< | 23:48 |
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