IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-06-15

DocScrutinizerI doubt as well a messed up half-flashed maemo system will charge00:00
MohammadAGMeeGo will00:00
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DocScrutinizernah that friggin r-initrd has NUTTIN, it has Terminal and Network-on/of, for whatever purpose00:03
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DocScrutinizerso either the network cranks up ttyACM and cdc_ether+sshd, and you missed to set up networking correctly (didn't I say you should ping the N900 first?), or you're supposed to start whatever sshd from whatever storage you mounted from somewhere00:05
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mrselloutI noticed from the log that you were trying to get access to the device using intrd00:18
mrsellout(hi btw)00:18
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mrselloutthere's a script for installing meego to the emmc that uses  the recovery intrd/kernel00:19
mrselloutit uses netcast to do so look here:
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mrselloutsorry netcat not netcast00:21
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user0damn internet connection00:22
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user0MohammadAG : possible to go back to the old kernel ?00:24
user0the system is back as it was now(still asking for the damn lock code)00:25
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user0but the way it boot up isnt the same00:25
user0btw while flashing the rootfs and the emmc again there was this status bar on the n900 :P00:26
user0pointless but cute00:27
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user0-really poor connection today00:48
user0-nothings working today00:48
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user0MohammadAG : did you get any pm from me ?00:51
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user0even the 3g router stopped working :)01:24
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MohammadAGhmm, why is there a Mohammad-02:50
ThreeMcause your name issn`t unique enough ;)02:56
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MohammadAGThreeM, and my real name?03:02
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ThreeMfor me, unique enough :)03:05
user0hello again :)03:05
user0DocScrutinizer : im trying to flash it with phoenix atm03:06
user0you think that would work ?03:07
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, sure you didn't fire up my ZNC?03:18
MohammadAGcause I can't find a reason there's another Mohammad-03:18
MohammadAGuser0, no reason to use pheonix, flasher does it better03:19
MohammadAGanyway, night03:19
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you'd be able to tell by hostname, user realname...03:21
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: /whois03:24
DocScrutinizer[671] Mohammad- is using a secure connection is using a secure connection03:24
user0DocScrutinizer : why did you suggest that i take it to some shop that has pheonix ?03:26
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Jef91Anyone know if there is an easy way to get debian squeeze running on the n900? Easy Debian is using lenny still03:38
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DocScrutinizerbecause the phenix flashing software is what Nokia is using in their service manual to e.g. reset lock code03:39
DocScrutinizerso it's obviously the only "official" way to reflash CAL partition that has the lock key hash, among other system parameters03:41
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DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: seems there's been a netsplit03:44
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Sazpaimondoes the n900 support wireless broadcast mode for wifi tethering04:14
Sazpaimonnot adhoc mode04:14
Sazpaimonbroadcast aka infrastructure mode04:15
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GeneralAntillesJames Shields, complete game shutout against the Red Sox.05:05
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* timeless looks for a finnish speaker05:20
timelessKertoiko sinua palvellut Ifin asiantuntija mahdollisista puutteista vakuutusturvassasi05:20
timelesscan someone translate that?05:20
timelessthe best i can get from google is:05:20
timelessDid you served as an expert of If possible deficiencies in their insurance cover?05:20
DocScrutinizersounds like hiring spam05:26
timelessit's a customer satisfaction survey05:27
DocScrutinizeryou got expertise in consulting customers about possible deficiencies in their insurance coverage05:27
DocScrutinizerTHEN JOIN OUR TEAM YEAH!05:28
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DocScrutinizerpumpgun and steel shoes for free - every police over 50 a day gets you a special remuneration05:30
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DocScrutinizerunsolicited spam  ahead (duck and cover):
ds3now if we can get all the opensource hardware to support that protocol...05:39
* timeless pokes sp300005:39
SazpaimonGeneralAntilles, Roy Halladay is still better05:39
Sazpaimonjust throwing that out there05:40
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timelesshrm, you're probably asleep05:40
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timelessluke-jr: ipv6 irc?05:40
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DocScrutinizerds3: huh? I wonder if you're read the page05:44
ds3yes, I did read the page05:44
ds3did I miss something?05:45
DocScrutinizerds3: you can even build yourself if you want05:45
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ds3I mean designed in05:45
ds3and have multivendor support... I think the old chipcon stuff can do it too05:45
DocScrutinizeraiui Wolfgang plans to build it in to next Ben palmtop device05:45
DocScrutinizerwith an itsy bitsy help from me05:46
ds3that's one device05:46
ds3want more things supporting it05:46
ds3maybe a watch ;)05:47
DocScrutinizer~seen alterego05:50
infobotalterego is currently on #meego. Has said a total of 85 messages. Is idling for 4h 28m 54s, last said: 'I should probably head to bed soon.'.05:50
ds3i wish the ben palmtop thing was an ARM based device05:51
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DocScrutinizerds3: /join #qi-hardware and discuss it05:52
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luke-jrtimeless: ?06:42
luke-jrtimeless: I've only been connecting over IPv6 for like 2 years now…?06:42
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: shall I kick your alter ego?07:34
GeneralAntillesSazpaimon, considering his salary is $20 mil, he damn well better be. :rolleyes:07:36
GeneralAntillesSazpaimon, otherwise I'd say you guys are getting ripped off.07:37
SazpaimonGeneralAntilles, sallary doesn't mean much in terms of performance07:44
Sazpaimonhow a player jives with a team means a lot more07:45
Sazpaimonlook at jayson werth07:46
Sazpaimonhe's a great player, but $126 millon?07:47
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Sazpaimonhe also can't singlehandedly hold up a terrible team like the nats07:49
DocScrutinizerwhere's located?07:51
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GAN900Sazpaimon, that's why the Rays are so awesome. :)08:03
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: are you running a ZNC?08:04
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* DocScrutinizer wonders who's faking MohammadAG, in connect-i-cut08:04
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Jef91Anyone know where easy debian mounts it's chroot to by default?08:09
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GAN900irssi proxy08:10
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Frampishi guys08:10
FrampisI have a weird problem on maemo on N900, I was playing Doom and it crashed and now my keyboard layout is messed up08:10
Frampiseverywhere, not just in the game08:10
Frampis. works as left, left works as down and ä works as up08:11
SpeedEvilreboot, or start doom and stop it08:11
SpeedEvilat a guess08:11
FrampisI've got the Finnish unit so I've got a scandinavian layout08:11
Frampisrebooted, didn't fix it08:11
Frampisrestarted the game and closed it08:11
Frampiswithout it crashing08:11
Frampisdidn't fix it08:12
Frampisis there some command for resetting the keyboard layout or something?08:12
DocScrutinizertry settings - keyboard - layout08:14
dm8tbrFrampis: sounds like you have the intl or US layout now08:14
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DocScrutinizerand obviously doom is doing something *NASTY*08:14
dm8tbryes, same thought. sounds like a bug08:14
DocScrutinizerlike storing current keymap and restoring it on normal quit08:15
DocScrutinizerthat's a bug for sure, but a fubar bug08:15
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Frampisthanks guys08:16
DocScrutinizerrestarting doom won't help as it backup-stores his own mess of last segfault08:16
Frampisyeah I was overthinking this, forgot to check the actual GUI settings menu :D08:16
FrampisI found the setting and had to change it back08:17
DocScrutinizerinsane idiocy to load a new keymap to deal with key meanings08:17
DocScrutinizerFrampis: so you did what doom is supposed to do on quit: restore the keymap that's been there on doom-start08:19
Frampisseems that way, yes08:19
DocScrutinizer~lart doom and its devels08:19
* infobot drops a truckload of VAXen on doom and its devels08:19
DocScrutinizerthat should cure it08:19
Frampisthe port is actually called PrBoom08:19
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FrampisI was trying to get a doom 2 wad to work but it just crashed08:19
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Frampiswhatever, I wasn't gonna play it anyway.08:20
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Sazpaimonwhy does the N900 need a custom doom port08:26
Sazpaimoncouldnt someone just compile boom or zdoom?08:26
Sazpaimonunless you wanted to turn using the touchscreen and shoot by tapping08:27
Sazpaimonbut that'd be awkward08:27
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robbiethe1stHey guys. Does anyone know if we can modify the usb-connection screen? The one with "mass storage" and "PC suite" modes?09:15
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Frampiswhat do you want to do with it?09:19
Frampishost mode gui or something?09:19
robbiethe1stI was thinking in terms of adding a couple extra buttons, allowing for only the SD card OR MyDocs to be chosen for mass storage09:20
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robbiethe1stand also, see about a mode that would allow for *both* mass storage mode as well as USB networking09:21
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Guest12410i am very new with using N900 . i have just run simpletest program written using  ARToolkit APIs on my PC ubuntu10.10 . i want to port this program on my N900 mobile.Can anybody help me in process of installing and running this program or can provide me some useful link10:18
Guest12410please help... I am really stuck at this point10:18
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Guest12410please provide me some useful link regarding above stated problem.10:21
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Appiah Guest1241010:21
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Guest12410@appiah - thank you for helping me out. I just wanted to know that if i want to port a sample porgram written using ARToolkit APIs on my N900 then i have to do learn maemo 5 also10:23
ruskie <-- hmm10:23
AppiahI have no idea on what ARToolkit APIs is so I wouldn't know10:24
jogaI've tried it...I don't think there is an arm port of it but not sure10:25
AppiahTried just compiling your software for arm and just running it on n900?10:25
Guest12410@joga-- Can  you tell me  which are the libraries i need to port on my N900 mobile so that my porgram  runs fine10:26
jogaGuest12410, no, I don't know sorry, you need to find it out on your own and if you feel capable of porting it, finding it out wouldn't be hard in comparison10:26
Guest12410ok thank you both of you.10:27
Guest12410thank you very much.10:28
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RST38hHELO ladies and gentlemen10:36
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cloudyLights~seen khertan10:54
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 18h 7m 13s ago, saying: 'cloudyLights, what your app does ?'.10:54
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mecehello maemonians11:15
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_trinemece, we are a dying race11:15
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* RST38h moos at crashanddie11:34
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RST38hcrash: I have done the impossible by making sound work in Android!11:35
gomiam(yes, what am I doing getting into a cownversation?)11:35
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cloudyLightskhertan: hi there11:35
cloudyLightskhertan: remember me from yesterday?11:35
crashanddieRST38h, sound didn't work in Android?11:35
crashanddieRST38h, I figured that was kindof a useful feature for a phone11:35
crashanddieOh, you mean on the N900?11:36
RST38hcrash: Oh it does work11:36
khertancloudyLights, yep ... did you successfully package your app ?11:36
cloudyLightskhertan: in I see the line:11:36
RST38hcrash: But the native API is OpenSL, brought to you by the same mentally ill people ad OpenGL11:36
cloudyLightsp["/usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages"] = files11:36
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RST38hOk, not entirely mentally ill, just crazy =)11:37
cloudyLightskhertan: what does that line mean and waht should I change it to?11:37
cloudyLightsis there a command to post a file from the N900 to a pastebin?11:37
RST38hThe 800-page pdf never explain how to play normal, pcm sound11:37
khertancloudyLights, hum ... i most of the time put my python package in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages11:37
khertanand files is what os.walk found in the folder11:38
khertanp is a dictionnary11:38
khertanwith install path as key, and current local path as value11:38
khertanexemple : you want to put and in /opt/myuberscript11:39 are located in the same folder as your pypackager script11:39
khertanp['/opt/myubserscript'] = ['','', '']11:40
cloudyLightsmhow can I pastebin my from my N900 now?11:41
cloudyLightsI want to show you11:41
khertanuse your n900 browser :)11:41
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cloudyLightsI didnt put any files in /usr/lib/python2.5/site-packages as I didnt understand why11:48
cloudyLightsmy files are at /usr/lib/switchProfByMeeting11:48
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crashanddieRST38h, yeah, I have a bit of experience with massively big pdf files "explaining" how to implement something -- I feel for you11:48
RST38hcrash: Oh, you cannot imagine...11:49
crashanddieWell, I spent last night trying to understand the g723, g726, g727 and g729 codecs, so yeah, I can imagine :P>11:49
RST38hcrash: These maniacs have redefined all the basic types, created their own COM-like framework, added support for media streaming, media metadata, special effects, etc11:49
khertancloudyLights, so you can comment also the things below #src11:49
khertancloudyLights, and you should enable binary build at last line11:50
RST38hcrash: All that in order to implement an audio API.11:50
crashanddieok, that is pretty bad.11:50
RST38hcrash; And the PDF is not really explaining anything, it is just listing endless interfaces11:50
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khertancloudyLights, there will be only one file writen, as you overwrite the dict key value on line 41 and 4211:51
khertanps ubuntu pastebin suck you can't correct and reply11:51
cloudyLights ?11:54
cloudyLightso ok11:55
cloudyLightslet me see11:55
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edheldilRST38h:  OpenGL is not *that* bad11:58
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cloudyLightskhertan: ok your lines helped and now I see switchProfByMeeting_0.0.1-1_armel.deb12:20
cloudyLightshow can I ask dpkg to list the files without installing it12:20
khertancloudyLights, dpkg -c {.Deb package}12:21
cloudyLightswant to try?12:23
cloudyLightsits very simple and shoulndt kill your N90012:23
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khertancloudyLights, i'm currently trying to implement theme to qt in meego de12:25
khertanso didn't have too much time for this :)12:25
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cloudyLightskhertan: thanks a lot12:27
cloudyLightscan I also run it on a pc?12:27
cloudyLightsI assume I can12:28
khertanyep you should be able to install it with the python setup tools12:29
khertan(easy_install install pypackager)12:29
khertanas it s availble on the pypi index12:29
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MohammadAGkhertan, yay, a Qt theme12:39
khertani ve got so many problem that i didn't think it ll work one day12:41
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ShapeshifterSo, I want to watch this episode, the built-in player is completely ignorant and tells me the file has an invalid type or something, while mplayer reports that it's an 848x480 H264, 900kbps avi with an mp3 audio track. If I want to play it I hear the first half second of audio and the then audio disappears, while the video is stuttery but close to smooth. How do I get it to play smoothly?12:46
RST38hShapeshifter: Find it in a different format on the torrent?12:47
robbiethe1sttried with mplayer?12:47
Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: I'm saying mplayer above.12:47
robbiethe1stSo use it?12:47
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robbiethe1stThat's odd, then...12:47
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Shapeshifter"Unable to play media. Media format not supported" is what the built-in player says. That player is terrible anyway.12:52
ShapeshifterI even have decoders-support12:52
T-Co_Is there a navigation software for N900 that would have voice guiding?12:53
robbiethe1sthm... Try with kmplayer12:53
robbiethe1stIt seems to be good at wrapping mplayer and selecting good options to play something12:54
nid0mappero sortof has it12:54
T-Co_sort of?12:55
nid0well its there, but takes some manual setup to get working12:55
HRH_H_Crabmy biggest gripe with the built in media player is lack of gapless mp3 playback.12:55
HRH_H_Crabi always expect i might have to do a bit of transcoding of video12:56
HRH_H_Craband that actually happens pretty raarely12:56
T-Co_nid0, Ok, care to give some pointers, a good howto perhaps, if you know. (I can google too, of course :))12:57
crashanddieHRH_H_Crab, have you tried the community media player?12:57
crashanddieHRH_H_Crab, it's a drop-in replacement for the built-in media player, graphically identical, with some extra features12:57
HRH_H_Crabhmm i wasnt aware of that12:57
HRH_H_Crabill have to check it out12:58
HRH_H_Crabthanks for the tip12:58
crashanddieplus, it's open source, so we can add features12:58
RST38hcrash: does it support themes already?12:58
nid0T-Co_: your best bet would be the mammoth mappero thread on TMO, it should all be documented there. Sygic is another option, but isnt free12:58
crashanddieRST38h, no idea, I haven't looked at it in months12:58
T-Co_nid0, Thanks12:58
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Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: thanks. kmplayer is an improvement, the sound at least plays constantly. too stuttery though.13:00
T-Conid0, I tried Marble and it works great, expect that it wont play the voices...13:00
robbiethe1stHm, there ought to be a way to play it. you may need to, perhaps, use a converter to switch the container format13:00
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robbiethe1stto, say, mp4 or maby mkv13:01
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Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: the cpu is at 100%, I would assume the n900 is simply to slow for this13:02
robbiethe1stShapeshifter: Yes. But we've got hardware-decoding for a couple of formats, if you can get the right codecs to decode it13:02
robbiethe1sth264 is one of them13:02
MohammadAG<RST38h> crash: does it support themes already?13:03
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robbiethe1stIf you can get the stock player to play it, it'll work, I think13:03
MohammadAGit supported themes from the start since it loads the same images13:03
Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: but not mplayer iirc. mplayer cannot use the hw-acceleration is what I thought13:03
MohammadAGcrashanddie, gapless playback is something to  be implemented in mafw-gst-renderer13:03
* RST38h wonders if the volume control bug is gone then =)13:03
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robbiethe1stCorrect, though it may be possible with some very convoluted options.13:03
MohammadAGRST38h, what bug?13:04
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Shapeshiftercrashanddie: what's the name of that community player?13:04
RST38hMohammad: the volume control in the original media player always shows up with the gray background of fixed color13:04
RST38hMohammad: they forgot to make it themeable13:04
cloudyLightsShapeshifter: gi13:06
cloudyLightsShapeshifter: hi13:06
ShapeshiftercloudyLights: hi there13:06
Shapeshifterrobbiethe1st: thanks13:06
robbiethe1stI wonder...
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cloudyLightsif anyone here care to see this app I wrote13:07
cloudyLightsit switchs the profile according to the calender13:07
ruskieis it this one: ;)13:08
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cloudyLightsI hope to get someone else try it before I post it in the forum13:08
MohammadAGRST38h, oh, haven't seen that in OMP13:09
MohammadAGso who has the C skills to implement gapless playback?13:10
robbiethe1stShapeshifter: Hm, we might be able to use dsp decoding with gstreamer - "gstreamer0.10-dsp" in the repos13:10
crashanddieI do13:10
crashanddieBut... cba13:10
cloudyLightslet me ask: does anyone need an app to silence the phone when in a meeting then bring it back to general?13:10
crashanddieIsn't there "profiles" for that?13:10
crashanddieI'd like something that modifies profiles based on GPS13:11
cloudyLightsbut the profile doesnt change back to general after the meeting ends13:11
cloudyLightsme too13:11
crashanddie(well, if GPS were a viable long-term alternative)13:11
cloudyLightswill soon offer it13:11
crashanddieYou could make a "conference joiner"13:11
cloudyLightsfirst I need it to alert me when I am near my station13:11
crashanddieOr try to add it to the calendar13:12
crashanddieso that the phone automatically joins a phone conference, waits and types the codes required to enter the conference room13:12
JaffaGPS indoors is going to be poor, and battery drain :-(13:12
crashanddieJaffa, which is what I said with "if it were a viable long-term alternative)13:12
MohammadAG<crashanddie> I do <-- and the gstreamer skills?13:13
crashanddiegstreamer isn't that hard.13:13
Shapeshiftergstreamer is a terrible mess13:13
crashanddieShapeshifter, you've never worked in my company I take it ;)13:14
crashanddieCompared to some of our products, gstreamer is a work of art.13:15
Shapeshiftercrashanddie: I used gstreamer once for a project of mine and I've never been more frustrated with a library. A fraction of it is decent, a large part of it is badly documented and awkward, and a good lump of it is just absolutely terrible.13:16
Shapeshifterespecially the documentation is incredibly bad. the whole API...13:16
cloudyLightsI will use tower ID to now I am near my bus station13:17
Shapeshiftercore and base are well documented, but it goes steeply downhill from there13:17
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JaffacloudyLights: Chat to lardman - he's planning a framework (called "Proximus") which would make writing this app easy13:20
cloudyLightsthanks mate13:21
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cloudyLightsas I am not working with maemo and I am at work13:21
cloudyLightsI got so excited with khertan help and having to finally package my program13:23
cloudyLightsthen I had a work amte ask so many cifs questions13:23
cloudyLightsback to work13:23
cloudyLightswish I could do these chats at night13:24
Venemowhat the heck is this? srsly?13:31
VenemoMohammadAG, is gapless playback need to be implemented in MAFW or in gstreamer or in the media player?13:32
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MohammadAGgstreamer already has an about to finish signal13:36
MohammadAGLOL @ the image Venemo13:37
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VenemoMohammadAG, yeah LOL indeed13:38
VenemoMohammadAG, maybe could give a clue13:38
povbotBug 440952: was not found.13:38
VenemoMohammadAG, or this:
povbotBug 130426: was not found.13:38
Venemopovbot, you are stupid13:38
povbotVenemo: Error: "you" is not a valid command.13:38
MohammadAGVenemo, I could do a proof of concept with gstreamer13:40
MohammadAGI think I could at least13:40
MohammadAGjust start playing another file when the old one is about to finish13:40
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MohammadAGthe PS3 does gapless playback best imo13:41
VenemoMohammadAG, start _decoding_ the new file when the old one is about to finish - then you can start playing immediately13:41
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cloudyLightsI just hope that in case the N9 does come out I can see it in the subject here...13:42
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VenemocloudyLights, the news will be full of it13:42
cloudyLightsyet I dont check the news any more13:43
cloudyLightsprefer to make news....13:43
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VenemocloudyLights, for example?13:44
cloudyLightswrite good applications13:44
VenemoMohammadAG, banshee's gapless playback does indeed work13:44
VenemocloudyLights :)13:44
cloudyLightsI mean there is too much text regarding meego/N9 and yet some usefull stuff are missing13:45
VenemoMohammadAG, why don't we just code a mobile GUI for banshee and forget about mafw?13:45
cloudyLightsI still think most of thesmart phones are not so smart13:45
VenemocloudyLights, N9 is mostly rumors13:45
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cloudyLightsbut most ppl NEED some usefull apps13:46
cloudyLightsnot browser and games13:46
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VenemocloudyLights, I agree13:46
cloudyLightsa good calender for example doesnt make a phone smart13:47
cloudyLightsbut it is missing in my N900 and I had such in the palm E313:47
VenemocloudyLights, well, N900's calendar sort of works13:49
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cloudyLightsfor example that program that told what train to take from muenchen was usefull13:49
cloudyLightsusefull app: how to get to that book store from here now13:50
VenemocloudyLights, yeah, mapping apps are useful13:50
MohammadAGVenemo, banshee isn't the best player imo13:50
MohammadAGI recognizes songs by extension rather than mime type for example13:51
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VenemoMohammadAG, do you know that for a fact?13:51
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cloudyLightsa phone is smart if it can tell me where I left it13:54
cloudyLightsor where I left my music on it13:55
cloudyLightsassuming you use 32Gb and dont know where the album is at13:55
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ShapeshiftercloudyLights: :|14:43
cloudyLightsare you the guy that help ppl in mythtv?14:44
cloudyLightsthat mysql wizard?14:44
ShapeshiftercloudyLights: huh, not at all. I dislike relational databases.14:44
cloudyLightso ok14:44
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, using the initrd image to install MeeGo on the eMMC, apparently it doesn't have the mtd blocks at all15:07
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VenemoMohammadAG, or you could go to GimpNet and join #rhythmbox or #banshee to see how they implemented gapless playback15:16
MohammadAGVenemo, cross fade engine afaik15:18
VenemoMohammadAG, it is not crossfading, definitely15:19
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Appiahonly thing I dont like about the music player15:19
Appiahthat gap between songs which ruins some albums15:19
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MohammadAGVenemo, it is in ryhtmbox15:22
MohammadAGthe option says use cross fading15:22
VenemoMohammadAG, yes, rhythmbox uses crossfading, banshee doesn not (seem to)15:22
MohammadAGI'm not sure if banshee uses it15:22
* MohammadAG checks15:22
Venemotheir UI contains an "enable gapless playback" option15:22
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VenemoMohammadAG, I tested it with some Mike Oldfield albums, and it indeed works15:23
MohammadAGnope, there's still a gap for me15:23
MohammadAGnone of the mediaplayers I've used do it like the PS315:23
Venemowhat version is that?15:23
MohammadAGBanshee 2.0 (2.0.0)15:24
MohammadAGthe gap is small, but it's there15:24
VenemoI have 2.0.1, and there is no gap at all15:24
MohammadAGthe PS3 lowers the volume of the first track, merges the second track and raises the volume of that15:24
achipaMohammadAG: heya15:24
Venemonote that some songs do have a gap at their ends15:24
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MohammadAGin effect, the two songs are merged together without any noticeable gap15:24
MohammadAGachipa, hi15:24
achipaMohammadAG: what's the final word on that Qt 4.7.2+ stuff ? did you manage to get a fix for the raster/rendering bug ?15:25
MohammadAGVenemo, nope, works fine on my PS315:25
VenemoMohammadAG, that is called crossfading15:25
MohammadAGachipa, no, but I checked 4.8 and it doesn't have the bug15:25
achipaMohammadAG: oooh, even better15:25
MohammadAGthe CSSU reverted back to 4.7.0 with some patches15:25
Venemoanyway, look at rhythmbox's inspiration15:25
MohammadAGachipa, 4.7.4 has the bug otoh15:25
achipaif 4.8 works, we should take that one15:26
MohammadAGachipa, however 4.8 is a release candidate for now (or a beta, not sure)15:26
MohammadAGit lacks hildonization15:26
Venemoachipa, it requires additional dependencies which are not available on Maemo15:26
MohammadAGyeah, that too15:26
MohammadAGit needs a newer glib to build QtDBus15:26
achipaVenemo: that was the "if"...15:26
achipadoes it really need it (find it hard to believe)15:27
VenemoMohammadAG, does anything stop us from upgrading glib as well?15:27
MohammadAGachipa, it needs one call15:27
MohammadAGVenemo, no, but I'd ask javispedro since I have no idea how glib ties with the rest of the system15:27
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VenemoMohammadAG, basically everything that begins with g depends on glib15:28
achipaI would file a bug against it if it's not abysmally difficult to ifdef it15:28
VenemoMohammadAG, but it's worth a try15:28
MohammadAGlatest MeeGo daily image is quite fast btw15:29
SceltMohammadAG: there has been a lot to improve15:30
T-CoCan it already be installed to N900?15:30
MohammadAGmeh, Kasvopus hanged on it15:30
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MohammadAGk, I'm actually impressed with MeeGo, if only they would settle on a standard UI toolkit (QML isn't standard)15:32
trxMohammadAG do you have MeeGo installed?15:32
* SpeedEvil wants athena widgets.15:33
trxcan you please check if proximity sensor info is in the same location?15:33
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SpeedEvilA nice standard toolkit, that everyone knows.15:33
jaskablood pressure doubled15:33
SpeedEvilLet's put the backwards in backwards compatibility!15:33
MohammadAGbasically, they're pushing QML everywhere15:34
MohammadAGI'm not sure that's the right choice15:34
MohammadAGtrx, same location?15:34
VenemoMohammadAG, QML isn't (won't be?) a bad thing.15:34
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SpeedEvilqml won't be a bad thing if it achieves market success.15:35
MohammadAGall OSs were doing it right at one point15:35
MohammadAGMaemo 5, iOS, Android, Symbian15:35
MohammadAGiOS did it best though15:35
trxMohammadAG, like on maemo there is "sys/devices/platform/gpio-switch/proximity/state"15:35
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trxmy SD card is dead15:35
trxso i cant check myself15:36
SpeedEviltrx: QML isn't getting it right either - for example - the accellerometer driver polls.15:36
MohammadAGthen came QML, and each application has a new UI that needs time to get used to15:36
jhbhi *, I am trying out the omvoiceserver for maps, it seems to recoginize the existance of espeak (which works from cli), but the test button doesn't do anything. Any hints?15:36
trxSpeedEvil it does?15:37
MohammadAGtrx, no SD card in my N900 :p15:37
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, that would be Qt Mobility15:37
VenemoSpeedEvil, accelerometer driver isn't related to QML....15:37
MohammadAGoh cool15:37
SpeedEvilSorry - I'm barely awake15:37
SpeedEvilMy sleep cycle is broken.15:38
trxyeah, qt mobility15:38
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MohammadAGthe new MeeGo terminal has pinch to zoom, remind me how one can pinch on a single touch screen?15:38
trxMohammadAG ok, nevermind then :)15:38
MohammadAGtrx, point is, I have MeeGo on the eMMC :p15:38
VenemoSpeedEvil, MohammadAG, MeeGo's Qt Mobility seems to do the right thing (only MeeGo kernel's accelerometer driver sucks)15:38
SpeedEvilVenemo: probably15:38
SpeedEvilVenemo: I shoul dwake up properly, and ivnestigate things before commenting.15:39
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trxMohammadAG oh :D15:39
VenemoSpeedEvil, I know this for a fact ( DocScrutinizer and myself investigated the matter)15:39
achipaMohammadAG: iOS is not doing that good regarding toolking... cocoa is starting to show it's age and now they have to revamp without breaking stuff... and that's always the most difficult part15:40
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achipaMohammadAG: and of course, the remark that QML is not a UI toolkit15:41
MohammadAGachipa, point is, most apps look the same on iOS15:41
MohammadAGand on Maemo/Android etc15:41
MohammadAGQML is breaking that15:41
achipano it's not15:41
VenemoMohammadAG, not QML, but how people use QML15:41
achipathe (yet) unavailability of components does15:41
achipabut that's soon (TM) to change15:42
MohammadAGVenemo, I don't expect everyone to rewrite hildon for maemo 515:42
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VenemoMohammadAG, they don't need to.15:42
achipayou can see plenty of dumb iOS/Android 'apps' wrapped from web stuff that just looks awful15:42
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Venemoanyway, I think we all agree that QML itself is a good direction, but it isn't yet mature enough15:43
MohammadAGsorry, I don't think it's a good direction15:43
achipaat least it's a better direction than web and what Android does :)15:43
Venemowhy not?15:43
MohammadAGwhat's wrong with QWidgets again?15:44
MohammadAGwhy deprecate those in favor of QML15:44
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VenemoMohammadAG, they will be working still15:46
trxi don't like the fact that they will be deprecated in the first place15:46
MohammadAGVenemo, I don't like working with deprecated APIs15:47
MohammadAGI prefer C++ than some JS-based language, if I wanted that I would've gone for WebOS15:47
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VenemoMohammadAG, think of QML as a declarative GUI language and forget the fact that it's JS based15:48
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MohammadAGhow can you forget it's JS based when the syntax is that of JS15:49
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crashanddieMohammadAG, do you really program in C++ though? :P15:54
crashanddieMohammadAG, I thought you were one of those cool Qt kids.15:54
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, that's C++ :p15:57
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SpeedEvilFind is written in c++?15:57
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trxMohammadAG thanks15:57
MohammadAGno, that was a reply to what he said :p15:57
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crashanddieMohammadAG, Qt is far removed from C++ ;)15:59
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achipaMohammadAG: the biggest problem with QWidgets is that they were essentially a lowest-common-denominator wrappers16:32
achipaand QML has nothing to do with QWidgets, you could have had QML+QWidgets (and it would suck of course :) )16:32
MohammadAGachipa, load average: 15.70, 10.79, 5.41 <-- isn't something that should happen :p16:33
achipaplus QWidgets are not *deprecated*, bud *done*, blah, blah16:33
MohammadAGI always get that they're deprecated on #meego16:33
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achipaMohammadAG: yes, because nobody maintains them on #meego, but that you can keep on using them on other platforms that DO have an interest in them16:34
achipa(wrapper story -> MeeGo doesn't have a native 'way' or 'style' which could be wrapped in QWidgets, so you would actually have to implement stuff, hence the lack of appeal)16:35
achipaThe Maemo5 QWidgets would be also major suckage if they did not plug-in/reuse/integrate stuff from Hildon16:36
achipa(i.e. again, it's not QWidgets that you are missing)16:36
MohammadAGthat's what MeeGo should do then, have a meego touch theme16:36
MohammadAGpoint is, I have to reimplement stuff whether I go with QWidgets or QML on MeeGo16:37
achipaMohammadAG: welcome to MTF16:37
MohammadAGachipa, MTF is deprecated16:37
achipaMohammadAG: yes, been there, done that :)16:38
achipabut eventually somebody realized that reinventing each wheel separately is not a good idea16:38
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MohammadAGand QML isn't reinventing the wheel? :P16:38
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achipaMTF would have been (and sort of is, if you look at Harmattan) a good solution, but it would solve the problem ONLY for MeeGo/Harmattan16:38
achipaQML is a foundation that can (at least theoretically ;) ) solve it for all platforms, and/or make it easier to change16:39
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MohammadAGMTF is a good widget set, except it breaks the whole code once deploy everywhere concept16:39
achipaexactly my point from 2 lines ago :)16:39
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MohammadAGhaving a theme for each system would've been easier :p16:40
achipaI would disagree, but hey, everyone can make an estimate :)16:40
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JaffaAnd *this* is the problem that Qt Quick Components is supposed to address16:41
JaffaExcept on MeeGo. Unless you mean Harmattan.16:41
achipaalso, most of the QML hatred (from C++, python, etc) comes from JS, not QML per se16:41
Jaffa<sigh />16:41
MohammadAGachipa, isn't QML a glorified JS anyway?16:42
javispedroif QML is Qt Quick, QWidgets must be Qt Slow?16:42
achipajavispedro: but true16:42
MohammadAGQWidgets is way quicker than QML :P16:42
MohammadAGespecially at long lists16:42
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achipaMohammadAG: not really, has surprisingly little to do with JS actually16:43
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MohammadAGI wonder how long it'd take me to make a QML version of Sociality16:43
MohammadAGas a UI only16:43
MohammadAGthe whole app took me 3 days to make it functional16:44
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lcukMohammadAG, long lists of how long16:44
achipaMohammadAG: It's like saying HTML is a glorified JS... they are linked, but just because of historical reasons and inertia16:44
MohammadAGin QWidgets/C++ of course16:44
MohammadAGlcuk, 100+ I'd say16:44
lcukare we talking 10s 100s 1000s16:44
lcuki heard someone complaining that a list with a couple of photos and a label were sluggish and non optimal beyond 6 items16:45
achipaMohammadAG: I can learn to play a piano piece in 3 days, I bet learning it on a flute would take me 100...16:45
achipabecause I don't play a flute16:45
achipathat doesn't mean a piano is easier to play than a flute16:45
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achipalcuk: rubbish or special case16:45
lcukmy cat can play the piano16:45
lcukbut he would not be able to play a flute16:45
lcuki never said he was in tune or anything16:46
lcukbut his mass and inertia can press the keys :P16:46
achipaI guess this is the other way round... you can click around something in QML... but not with QWidgets...16:46
lcukyou should have seen him jump the first time he did it on jakes toy piano16:46
lcukclick around?16:46
javispedroQML is the best toolkit for making WP7-style panorama applications =)16:47
lcukis it?16:47
javispedrolcuk: well, that's all I know to do with it!16:47
lcukjavispedro, I have said this before:16:47
lcukit is not the toolkit, but the IDE which differentiates utility16:48
achipalcuk: there is a little bit of thinking involved in how you make your model - even QGV is fast enough for a 6 item list16:48
lcukbecause the IDE turns your ideas into code16:48
achipalcuk: but if you make a sh!+ model then yes, it will be jerky16:48
lcuki agree achipa16:48
MohammadAGwell, 254 QWidgets each showing an image scrolls through and works well16:48
MohammadAGI don't want to imagine that in QML16:48
lcukit would be nice I expect16:48
javispedrolcuk: you have a point, as the qt creator qml designer resembles the ms wp7 designer much16:48
lcukMohammadAG, qml is rapid (like other things) if you keep the nuimber of layers minimal16:49
lcukeven gtk is16:49
javispedrolcuk: the fact that I was constantly thinking about wp7 while plastering controls on the form probably is the reason I unconsciously made a panorama UI16:49
MohammadAGQt works for long lists16:49
* lcuk wonders why his fish are swimming backwards16:49
MohammadAGQML jerks a bit16:49
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MohammadAGlcuk, Guinness in the pool?16:49
lcukMohammadAG, (2.5mb tiny)16:50
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MohammadAGmeh, I think I'll try QML, but only as a UI16:50
lcuksketches of fish swimming in a liqflow pool :)16:50
achipaMohammadAG: when you say list, are you comparing the same base (i.e. same C++ model) or just stuff thrown in a scrollarea ?16:50
MohammadAGif I like it, I'll back it up with some C++ and make the switch16:51
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MohammadAGachipa, latter16:51
achipaMohammadAG: well yes, of course QML will be slower, because you are not doing the same thing16:51
lcukachipa, hm16:51
lcukhow come scrollarea is slow?16:51
achipaMohammadAG: what people don't realize is that QML is essentially the *SAME* c++ widget code16:52
MohammadAGachipa, shouldn't a QScrollArea behave the same way as a ScrollArea?16:52
lcuktechnically a single moving backpane and showing the items onscreen?16:52
lcukseeing as we are resolution limited, those items will be a fraction of all items16:52
lcukor does qml/qt do extra to render?16:52
achipalcuk: the QML ListView stuff is done with models16:53
achipawhich is actually the more sane way to do it16:54
achipaso that your memory/resource consumption does not depend on the size of the list, etc16:54
MohammadAGso's QListView, but I admit I never used that16:54
lcukachipa, but each visible node on the list has visibilityu check and nothing rendered if it is offscreen etc16:54
lcukachipa, hm16:54
* lcuk just initialises/loads as things come onto screen sometimes16:55
MohammadAGQListWidget is saner imo :p16:55
lcukthis is code. there is no sanity.16:55
achipalcuk: correct, and listview should do the same, in fact it should recycle the elements (so if your list has a million items, you don't get a list with a million c++ objects)16:55
achipayou will only have as many objects as visible and the rest will be created/cached from the model16:56
lcukachipa, what happens if each item is a different size?16:56
lcukyou need to store your data, then a million references to the size of each element then rejig everything anyway to know where in the list you are16:56
achipalcuk: same story - the point being it get killed if it goes too far off screen16:56
achipalcuk: exactly, and that's why you need a fast model16:56
lcukbut to know whether it is onscreen needs to know the history of all proceeding items16:57
Venemoachipa, QML is exceptionally slow, and it uses 10 times the memory the equivalent QWidget solution uses16:57
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lcukVenemo, ignore the memory construct issue16:57
Venemoachipa, part of this could be fixed by translating QML into C++ code (at build time) and compiling it16:57
lcukslowness is more worrysome16:58
lcukwhich aspect is slow16:58
achipaVenemo: I  would disagree but there is a high chance we don't interpret the word 'equivalent' the same way16:58
achipaVenemo: say hello to qtquick 2.016:58
Venemoachipa, QML 2.0 isn't compiled either16:58
Venemoachipa, it just uses a different JS engine16:58
achipathere ws some discussion about this on the SF MeeGo summit and compiled QML was on the table16:59
lcukVenemo, QML and HTML are similar DOM models16:59
lcukand nobody advocates compiling those to c++ first16:59
achipaVenemo: the compilation won't help you much per se, you ARE getting C++ objects16:59
lcukachipa, yeah16:59
MohammadAGshitload of time needed to start a QML app :/16:59
achipaVenemo: what you save on is the initial parsing16:59
lcukright MohammadAG16:59
lcukdid you see the qml performance tool16:59
Venemoachipa, sure, but QML itself is interpreted still. fortunately the new JS engine will have JIT compilation.17:00
lcukinitialisation goes through so many layers17:00
achipathat one I don't dispute at all :)17:00
lcukand so many thousands of times17:00
achipaVenemo: QML is not. JS is17:00
MohammadAGno, but this reminds me of Python17:00
lcukVenemo, HTML is interpreted17:00
lcuksame way17:00
lcuksame level of detail17:00
javispedroa descriptive language, "Interpreted"?17:00
Venemoachipa, will I be able to use the backends of QML from C++? eg. in Qt 5 can I write a C++ app that uses the same things as QML?17:00
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achipaVenemo: you sort-of already can17:01
MohammadAG 4343  4332 root     S    22676  9.2  0.0 /opt/socialityqml/bin/socialityqml17:01
achipaVenemo: it's a very high price to pay just to be able to say 'yay, I did not use JS or QML !'17:01
MohammadAGwhat the f17:01
MohammadAG9.2MBs for a Hello World?!17:01
achipaMohammadAG: AKA debug build17:01
MohammadAGnice memory usage17:01
MohammadAGachipa, Release build17:01
lcukMohammadAG, your qt app uses memory too17:02
achipaalso - the memory usage is somewhat linux-style, we like preloading and preinitializing a lot17:02
MohammadAGlcuk, well duh, but not 9.2MBs for "Hello world"17:02
lcukI am sure microsoft can top that17:02
MohammadAGI don't care about Microsoft17:02
VenemoI'll see how much memory a XAML hello world uses17:02
MohammadAGa QMainWindow with a QLabel saying Hello World takes 4MBs17:02
javispedrobah, just double?17:03
achipaas usual, the question is whether this is incremental or not17:03
lcukwhat the f.   4mb  for a Hello World?!17:03
javispedrothat's a few years of hw only ;)17:03
achipaif at 100MB the difference is 100 vs 105, I don't give a s&&t17:03
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achipathat's like saying python uses 10000x more memory than C17:04
lcukit does.17:04
javispedromy question is why?17:04
achipathe point being that for print "hello world" python will fare bad17:05
javispedroas achipa I understood it was just a way of expressing Qt constructors in a shorter way17:05
javispedroso it would also use the same qobjects, same paint() methods,17:05
MohammadAGI imagine the next device should have 1GB of HW RAM for this kind of stuff17:05
javispedroMohammadAG: otherwise it would look bland when compared to recent devices17:05
lcukjavispedro, most apps have a work part17:06
MohammadAGjavispedro, no, it would suck from all the QML apps17:06
lcukthe bit that is more than glue.17:06
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MohammadAGmost of MeeGo seems QML by now17:06
lcukand that work part is where slowness is17:06
javispedrolcuk: not hello world =)17:06
achipaMohammadAG: not really... the N900s 256 is small, it works just fine with 512... with 1gb it fliesssss17:06
Venemoachipa, are you referring to the rumoured harmattan devices?17:07
lcuk:D more ceiling17:07
achipajavispedro: that is what happens17:07
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MohammadAGachipa, I'd imagine 512 is way too low17:07
javispedroachipa: but why does it seemingly use more RAM?17:07
MohammadAGhildon-desktop, home, status-menu etc probably take up 8MBs of RAM together17:08
javispedroonly 8?17:08
MohammadAGnow I'd compare the Intel QML UI to that, but cba17:08
achipaVenemo: I have all sorts of hardware running all sorts of Qt versions if that's you mean... the exopc for example has 1gb, beagleboard 512mb... no ieda what harmittan stuff you're talking about ;)17:08
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Venemoachipa :)17:08
VenemoMohammadAG, right now, hildon-desktop uses 3.5 MB and puzzle-master uses 9.8 MB17:09
achipajavispedro: yes it does, but much of that overhead is simply from (at this point) focusing more on features than saving memory17:09
achipajavispedro: you will never ever see intel stuff below 1gb17:09
Venemolet's hope that QML will be better in Qt 517:10
MohammadAGVenemo, puzzle master is a game17:10
SpeedEvilWhich will mean that caring about memory gets left behind.17:10
lcuki have a 486 that proves you wrong.17:10
MohammadAGwhen you compare, do it with apps that do the same17:10
lcukachipa, ^17:10
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achipaso IMHO it's understandable that most of the time is spent on making stuff work, esp with regard to scenegraph, than battling QGV and QtScript memory usage17:10
MohammadAGi.e compare hildon-desktop with whatever desktop meego uses17:10
SpeedEvilAlso - RSS is a lie!17:10
achipalcuk: RECENT Intel stuff, as in Atoms, etc, etc17:10
lcukI am sure the 486 is made from atoms too17:10
SpeedEvilRSS counts - for example - the address space libc is mapped into17:11
achipabut not Atoms17:11
VenemoMohammadAG, well yeah, but p-m shouldn't use 9.8 MB either...17:11
Venemolcuk, :):)17:11
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MohammadAGVenemo, Qt is loaded into memory17:11
MohammadAGcompare Qt apps together to cancel out differences17:11
lcukwhat is the memory stuff in top as17:12
lcukwhat does VIRT/RES/SHR mean17:12
MohammadAGfor example, puzzle master takes up 9MBs, my mediaplayer takes up 7-ish17:12
achipatop is not the best way for gauging memory usage17:12
lcukjust roughly17:12
RST38huse htop17:12
lcukdo I add up all those?17:12
achipavirt is pointless, forget it17:12
achipares is kinda it17:12
lcukwhat is it though?17:12
RST38hSHR - shared with other apps (such as shared libraries)17:12
achipashr is shared17:12
RST38hVIRT - swapped out to disk17:13
achipanot necessarily swapped out... allocated17:13
RST38hRES - actual memory amount currenty owned by the app17:13
MohammadAGbtw, KDE's way of showing memory usage is nice17:13
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achipadoesn't mean it's used or swapped...17:13
VenemoMohammadAG, memory usage is irrelevant when VirtualBox uses 103% of my CPU17:13
achipaas we know our beloved linux loves to overcommit :)17:13
Venemoaccording to top17:13
javispedrohelo RST38h17:13
RST38hehlo javispedro17:13
lcuk2439 lcuk      20   0 86852  18m 3988 S  3.3  1.9   0:05.58 liqbase-playgro17:14
achipathat's just top's silly way of saying 'more than one core/hyperthread'17:14
nid0Venemo whats wrong with that17:14
Venemonid0 :)17:14
lcukto be fair to it, it does have every sketch ever created since day1 available and prelisted17:14
nid0genuine question17:14
Venemonid0, how can you use more than 100% of a CPU?17:14
nid0Venemo: top cpu % is / by number of cores/threads available17:14
achipaVenemo: by having multiple cores/threads17:15
nid0if you're using a quad core hyperthreaded cpu, thats 13%17:15
VenemoI use a dual-core non hyperthreaded cpu17:15
achipait LOOKS better to say 103% than to divide all values b the number of cores/HTs17:15
achipaimagine the server folks17:16
Venemoachipa, looks better indeed :)17:16
achipacringing why is my system hardly going over 10% !17:16
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Venemoachipa, because you don't run windows in VirtualBox17:17
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* MohammadAG doesn't get the concept of widgets in QML17:18
Venemoanyway, I will go and get some food now17:19
Venemobye-bye guys :)17:19
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cloudyLightskhertan: how can I add a sudo line in my package?17:28
achipaMohammadAG: think about QML as .ui files if you have to17:28
achipaMohammadAG: what does it matter where QLabel comes from17:28
MohammadAGachipa, sorry, I can't do that, ui files are compiled, QML files aren't17:29
achipalet's pretend for a moment that they are17:29
MohammadAGk, so instead of a QPushButton I need to implement a Button.qml file17:30
achipaMohammadAG: no, you get that from qt components17:30
MohammadAGachipa, is Qt components on maemo17:30
MohammadAGand on all systems with 4.7.2+?17:30
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achipayes, though some might lack color styling or lack particular components (say, 20footDatePicker)17:31
achipabut the idea is that they would be omnipresent17:31
cloudyLightsdoes anyone knows how to add a sudo line in a package I write17:32
achipaand yes, it's a shame the recent work on them is not (yet) available, but soon TM that obstacle will go away too17:32
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achipaMohammadAG: and where QML components kick ass compared to QWidgets is that most of the time they have very little native code, so you can swap them around17:34
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MohammadAGachipa, how do I get Qt Components? do I just copy the qml files into my project?17:35
* javispedro ponders creating the wp7 pivot control in qml for a start17:35
achipaMohammadAG: that is the ugliest way (but nonetheless works)17:35
achipaon a linux system that hasn't forsaken dependencies you would depend on them like any other package17:36
achipabut they are certainly more mobile (in terms of code) than the binary libQtGui stuff17:36
lcuka big question: qml is not directly reliant upon qt is it?17:37
javispedroGML+ ;P17:37
lcukwell, like we have various browsers17:37
lcukeach parsing html17:38
achipalcuk: define directly...17:38
lcukit would be feasible (for instance) for google to produce qml parser17:38
lcukfor direct use in android17:38
achipathere is nothing preventing you from making your own declarative engine if that's what you mean17:38
achipabut that would be sort of like what gnash is trying to do with SWF, that sort of doesn't really work in practice17:39
achipa(sort of)17:39
lcuki understand17:39
lcukare there any other declarative languages?17:40
achipabut then again, Google got away by snatching Java and violating it into a form that is nowadays more popular than the original :)17:40
lcukis html5 and css3 close?17:40
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achipaclose... maybe, better... IMHO not (and the gap is widening and HTML standardization is snail-paced)17:41
RST38hNOK at 6.0317:41
javispedrobuy buy buy!17:42
javispedro(please! ;P )17:42
javispedrolast one out at nok please shutdown the lights17:42
achipathe light are already off, it's summer time (it does get a bit darker around 1AM on the south)17:44
javispedropft, same as here, no money left even for A.C17:44
javispedroit's also the end of public universities here =)17:45
javispedrobut I have to wonder how Nokia investors are going to congratulate Elop for chopping share value in half17:46
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Jaffajavispedro: They'll be "happy" waiting to see the reaction to the WP devices :-/17:51
MohammadAGwhat's all the talk about the 21st being something big17:52
javispedroaccording to J. random blogger invitations have been distributed for a nokia event17:53
javispedrowhich would map to the fcc expiration date nicely17:53
achipaMohammadAG: June 21st is the biggest day in 201117:53
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achipaquite literally, it is the longest day in the northern hemisphere17:54
Venemo_N900hey again17:54
* achipa ducks for cover17:54
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MohammadAGjavispedro, well, yeah, the 24th, though I'm not sure if the new "disruptive" device is the N917:56
Venemo_N900achipa, really? this is the longest day?17:56
achipaVenemo_N900: yessiree, in 2011 it's the 21st17:57
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, I'm not sure how disruptive it will be, if at all17:57
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, it will lower stocks by 90%17:57
Venemo_N900achipa :)17:58
Venemo_N900MohammadAG, why?17:58
javispedroMohammandag: who knows. I am putting my finger on this one though.17:58
MohammadAGjust saying, that's how disruptive it's going to be :p17:58
javispedromaybe whats going to be disruptive is elop and investors commiting collective suicide17:59
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MohammadAGthat would be disturbing, not disruptive! :p17:59
Venemo_N900it wouldn't disturb me at all18:00
javispedroI'd bring in the champagne!18:00
MohammadAGno fine wine?18:00
Venemo_N900javispedro, deal!18:00
lcukachipa, this weekend I am heading to London18:00
lcukwell, I am if I have been paid18:01
lcukto an event called Hacktivate18:01
lcukwhere idea is to describe how you would use technology to change the world18:01
lcukand to try and build prototypes18:02
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Venemo_N900lcuk, I would use nuclear power plants to save the atmosphere18:03
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Venemo_N900unfortunately, one of them blew up and now the stupid masses think that nuclear energy is bad18:03
javispedroi would burn the atmosphere to save the planet18:04
* javispedro --> away18:04
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jacekowskibitcoin fail18:07
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nid0user fail*18:12
nid0who keeps a wallet with $500,000 in it somewhere nickable, regardless of whether its cash, travellers cheques, or bitcoins18:13
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Jaffanid0: But isn't that part of the problem? Most people aren't geared up to store any form of money worth $500,00018:17
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achipalcuk: actually I should have been there myself18:24
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achipalcuk: but there are two countries in the whole of the European continent that require paperwork for me to get in, and the UK is one of those :) thus I passed...18:25
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lcukachipa, cool18:26
lcukdo you know anyone else that is going?18:26
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achipaI know there will be a couple of FN guys there18:27
nid0Jaffa: most people arent, because they arent storing $500,00018:27
nid0if you are, you take care of it18:27
nid0dont you?18:27
achipaor DN or whatever we are called :)18:27
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achipaVenemo_N900: wait until an earthquake brings down the hoover dam or sorts, a hurricane kills the wind plants and some will start advocating that we should not use electricity at all :)18:28
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Venemo_N900achipa, heheh18:29
Venemo_N900achipa, by that time we will need electricity more than ever18:30
Venemo_N900mostly because all fossil fuel will run out18:30
achipaNokia bicycle chargers FTW ! :D18:30
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* user0 is back!18:38
user0DocScrutinizer MohammadAG ,18:39
user0any last suggestions ?18:39
user0before i send this device back to the store :P18:39
jacekowskinuclear cars ftw18:39
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Siceloso much for the topic :/19:08
Jef91anyone know if there is an easy way to make the easy debian image size larger?19:09
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VenemoJef91, ask qole19:12
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khertan <<< nice MeeGo Netbook Bug19:18
cloudyLightskhertan: why do the file I install from the package are forgetting their prmitions?19:25
cloudyLightskhertan: how to make all my .py files have 755?19:26
khertanit s didn't care of permission as it didn't exist on fat drive19:29
khertanso i set the permission in the post install script19:29
cloudyLightsneed I also add a script for uninstall?19:30
khertanif you need to do other action than removing file no19:30
khertanif you didn't need to do other action than removing file no19:31
khertanupdate-sudoers ?19:31
khertanyou modify the sudo file prefs ?19:31
khertanso yes19:31
cloudyLightscan I use p to find any file ending with .py and chmod 755 it?19:32
cloudyLightsI only have a few files..19:33
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khertancloudyLights, yep it s possible19:36
khertan"#!/bin/sh\nchmod 755 "+"\nchmod 755".join(p['/usr/...'] should works ... not tested19:38
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cloudyLightskhertan: help pls19:49
cloudyLightserr. min19:50
cloudyLightsok got my mistake19:52
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HRH_H_Crabcrashanddie: still there? im home now and im looking for that community player you mentioned earlier.19:54
HRH_H_Crabcant seem to find it in my repositories19:54
HRH_H_Crabdo i need to add one?19:54
VenemoHRH_H_Crab, which player are you referring to?19:54
infobotsomebody said cssu was
HRH_H_Crabcrashanddie: thanks.19:54
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RST38hWell. Moo.20:08
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HRH_H_Crabhmmm. is the thing im looking for called "someplayer" ?20:13
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HRH_H_Crabcrashanddie: hmmm. im guessing that the media player you are talking about is the "standard" one that is replaced when you install the cssu stuff?21:05
HRH_H_Crabif so, sadly it still isnt gapless. :(21:06
HRH_H_Crab(or ive done something wrong)21:06
cloudyLightsdoes anyone need a app to silence the phone by the calender?21:07
cloudyLightsI am looking for testers21:07
HRH_H_Crabi suppose the implication is that now i at least have one that is potentially still being improved so might have that feature at some point in the future though, which is a good thing.21:07
cloudyLightsmy app will switch the N900 to silent when a meeting starts , and then switch it back to regular21:07
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DocScrutinizerHRH_H_Crab: just had a discussion in cssu chan about why cssu is enforcing new "replacement" apps that can't switch back to the original ones. It's indeed a flaw in CSSU concept in my book21:19
HRH_H_CrabDocScrutinizer: i havent noticed any problems per se.21:21
HRH_H_Crabits just that in this case the replacement app hasnt fixed the issue with the original one that i hoped it would.21:21
HRH_H_Crabanyway, the cssu stuff makes it quite clear that its for powerusers / testers etc.21:22
HRH_H_Craband in a worse case scenario one could just reflash i guess.21:22
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DocScrutinizerfor all subsystems where that's possible, such replacements should either come as quite normal package in extras(-devel) and provide an interface to user where she can select what's the default "system" app handling e.g. mp3. Or, for sake of conserving space, you get an *optional* package from CSSU-repo that you can install whenever you like, and that package would replace your standard mediaplayer by the new one permanently and free the21:22
DocScrutinizerstorage eaten by the meamo5-stock component21:22
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HRH_H_Crabi dunno. im ot a developer. just a somewhat "geeky" end user. i think their approach seems o.k. in as far as i understand it, but i can see your point of view too.21:24
DocScrutinizerthere's no good rationale for CSSU to permanently replace stock system bits like mediaplayer, camera, whatnot - other than to keep storage footprint small21:25
HRH_H_Crabbut as i see it,21:25
DocScrutinizerjust replace rogue things that kill your system - make the rest optional21:26
HRH_H_Crabthe whole point of installing cssu would be because a user wasnt happy with the status quo (closed source original apps that are no longer being developed / getting bug fixes)21:26
DocScrutinizernot sufficiently a rationale to *force* users of CSSU to permanently irreversibly replace all their stock system components21:28
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DocScrutinizeras long as there's no dependency to the new stuff, make it optional21:28
DocScrutinizerif it needs the special hacks to allow removal of parts of maemo5-metapackage aka system aka MP, get it into CSSU that is about doing exactly that21:29
DocScrutinizerbut still you can make it an optional package to install via HAM from cssu-repo21:30
HRH_H_Crabwell, speaking as an end user, i'll just be happy if one day the "stock" media player has gapless playback.21:31
HRH_H_Crabi have way too many dj mix cds that sound like shit on my n90021:31
DocScrutinizerCSSU isn't meant to be the mutually exclusive alternative to stock PR1.321:31
HRH_H_Craband even albums like "live at folsom prison" by johnny cash have segues between songs that sound crappy when it transitions between them.21:32
DocScrutinizerHRH_H_Crab: completely on same page with you regarding gapless21:32
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MohammadAGMohammad-, mind iding yourself or something...21:45
rm_worklol >_>21:46
rm_workyeah, makes tabcompleting your name confusing :P21:47
MohammadAGit's not me21:47
MohammadAGunless I have another XChat instance up, but that would show my IP21:47
rm_workHRH_H_Crab: also, you could just... install a different media player and use that21:48
rm_worki really liked mediabox, not sure about gapless but it's open, soo21:48
MohammadAGZNC is clean, no duplicate users21:49
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HRH_H_Crabrm_work: ive tried several of the other ones but i don't like them much.21:52
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HRH_H_Crabiirc some (none?) of them would pause correctly if there was an incoming call.21:53
HRH_H_Crabmaybe i should try trawling through the various options again.21:53
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rm_workyeah dunno21:58
rm_workono my home internet appears to have hiccuped21:58
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GAN900Tick tick tick22:24
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vi__howto launch an command in osso-xterm from osso-xterm.22:48
vi__i.e. osso-xterm -e ping
vi__any o' you bro's know?22:48
vi__MohammadAG: for example?22:49
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MohammadAGosso-xterm "ping"?22:53
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that Mohammad- is a ZNC instance running on == using secure connection. I recall you used this "account" quite some time ago. I don't think pinging it and asking to "id" does help - you should contact the sysop of the server at and ask hin to get your account out of that ZNC for good22:56
DocScrutinizerseems the server is located in Connecticut, USA - if that helps you remember who might be owner of this ZNC22:57
MohammadAGOnly server I know of in the US is in New York22:58
DocScrutinizerlocateIP isn't reliable22:58
MohammadAGZNC can only run once22:58
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vi__MohammadAG: 'osso-xterm ping' causes an instance of osso-xterm to start, however it crashes immediatley22:58
vi__crashes or stops22:59
MohammadAGZNC can only have one instance with the same config22:59
MohammadAGvi__, probably cause ping needs root privs22:59
DocScrutinizern one server, yes22:59
MohammadAGyeah, that's the only server with the config22:59
DocScrutinizerprobably you're right about that22:59
DocScrutinizeras there can't be two ZNC listening to same port for clients connecting23:00
MohammadAGjust checked a full list of processes, only one23:00
DocScrutinizeranyway evidently that gone-mad ZNC is on
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DocScrutinizerbyebye mohammad-23:01
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DocScrutinizerhi again Mohammad-23:02
rm_workit's definitely yours, it took over your name :P23:02
vi__no, no program will run when invoked this way23:02
vi__funnily though23:02
vi__if i type23:02
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DocScrutinizerhi MohammadAG5123:03
vi__what is the script for?23:03
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DocScrutinizervi__: to allow root to access user session dbus23:03
rm_workvi__: IIRC running things without having to deal with connecting to dbus23:03
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rm_workbecause otherwise the system will kill whatever you run after a few seconds23:04
vi__thank you23:04
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MohammadAGis there a way to find out all users who have * ?23:05
DocScrutinizeralas not23:05
DocScrutinizeron my client23:05
RST38hHack OptOnline, get their customer records23:05
DocScrutinizerirssi users know of ways to do23:05
vi__echo "ls" | osso-xterm does not work either23:05
RST38hSomething like /who * with a filter will do23:06
DocScrutinizervi__: osso-xterm doesn't take stdin23:06
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you know about chat to ZNC by /querying *status ?23:07
vi__then how do I invoke an instance of osso-xterm running a particular program?23:07
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, yes, but it's not the ZNC I'm on23:07
MohammadAGvi__, add a read at the end to see why it exists23:07
MohammadAGusing osso-xterm obviously doesn't spawn a shell, so when the process exits, the terminal closes23:08
DocScrutinizervi__: you might have a look into mc.desktop23:08
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: exactly23:08
DocScrutinizerto the point23:08
DocScrutinizerosso-xterm ash -c "ls -l"23:09
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MohammadAGor osso-xterm "ls -l && read foo"23:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: netstat is your friend, regarding weird phantom ZNC instances ;-)23:10
MohammadAGthat's not working btw23:10
MohammadAGfor some reason23:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: && is shell syntax23:10
MohammadAGosso-xterm "ash -c 'ls -l && read foo'"23:11
MohammadAGoh and use ; not &&23:11
DocScrutinizerxterm can't spawn "ls -l && read foo" : file not found23:11
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vi__why is this so annoying?23:12
MohammadAGvi__, osso-xterm "ash -c 'ping; read foo'"23:12
DocScrutinizereven osso-xterm "ash -c 'ping; read foo; exit'"  ;-D23:13
vi__that does work, however I am HUNGRY to understand why23:14
vi__what is the parameter -c do?23:14
vi__what is the 'read foo' for?23:14
DocScrutinizerxterm just loads and executes ONE binary23:14
NIN101obviously -c = command, read read some stuff from stdin to a environment variable, but here it just prevents the closing of osso-xterm23:15
vi__I see the ping is essentially a 1 line script (terminated by ;)23:15
DocScrutinizer-c is telling this binary which happens to be shell to execute the -commmand23:15
MohammadAGread foo reads the keypress into the variable $foo23:15
MohammadAGof course, pressing anything will return23:16
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MohammadAGso something at the end of a script like echo "Press any key to continue or press any other key to exit" && read keypress would work23:16
DocScrutinizerthen exit closes the shell which in turn makes xterm quit23:16
MohammadAGthere's no need for that afaik23:16
vi__I love you guys, teach me your ways.23:17
MohammadAGcould be wrong, but my battery ran out23:17
MohammadAGisn't -c supposed to exit the shell when all commands return?23:17
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DocScrutinizernah just a moment23:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: what did you do then to make Mohammad- quit and re-appear, a few minutes ago?23:19
DocScrutinizer[2011-06-15 22:01:36] <DocScrutinizer> byebye mohammad-23:20
DocScrutinizer[2011-06-15 22:02:12] <rm_work> heh23:20
DocScrutinizer[2011-06-15 22:02:14] <DocScrutinizer> hi again Mohammad-23:20
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you obviously have control over that ZNC instance23:21
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nah, it connected faster than my proper ZNC23:21
MohammadAGMohammad- didn't quit23:22
MohammadAGwhen I quit, it immediately changed nicks, that's how ZNC works23:22
DocScrutinizernetstat is your friend, find the processes that keep connections to freenode23:22
MohammadAGhere's an example23:23
MohammadAGactually sec, need to do something first23:23
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I could do that for you, using netstat ;-)23:24
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I could do that for you, using nmap ;-)23:24
DocScrutinizerbut I guess netstat is faster and more informative23:24
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DocScrutinizerhi javispedro23:27
* DocScrutinizer waves23:28
* DocScrutinizer heads out23:28
MohammadAGmoo javispedro23:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: clear your nicknames module in ZNC23:29
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, my ZNC has this IP23:29
javispedrotoday the bme rebooting bug is specially ... damnable23:29
MohammadAGerr, hostmask23:29
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javispedroas I'm trying to copy a few files and it keeps rebooting23:29
MohammadAGthat's the only one I have root access to23:30
* javispedro curses23:30
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javispedroanyone remembers if a fixed n810 bme was released by nokia? I kinda remember the story..23:31
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: *** Mohammad- is now known as MohammadAG  [23:01]23:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I don't have access to that23:32
DocScrutinizerI see, find owner of that server23:32
SpeedEviljavispedro: I don't think so23:32
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SpeedEvilThough I haven't been paying that close attention23:32
DocScrutinizersomebody who granted you ZNC some 12 months ago23:33
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MohammadAGmy only ZNCs were yours and the one I'm currently on23:36
MohammadAGso unless someone's moving servers, I have no idea where that's from23:36
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