IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2011-06-16

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Sazpaimonthere sure are a lot of people on tmo with very little grasp of english lately00:06
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piggzSazpaimon: politeness and courtesy too most likely ;)00:07
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Sazpaimonthere's a few dedicated n8x0 users on the forum00:11
ggoebelgood to hear00:12
ggoebeljust picked my first n800 up off ebay00:12
* lcuk ponders requesting maintainers for n8x000:13
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ggoebellooking for a website or instructions which will bring me quickly up to speed.00:14
ggoebellooking for maintainers is hard when dealing with old hardware and volunteer projects00:15
ggoebelappears like it may have stalled...00:15
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ggoebelwas hoping being a linux device the support might be long lived00:16
Sazpaimoni thought meego has a 256MB minimum00:16
Sazpaimonor is that for x8600:16
Sazpaimonfor ram that is00:16
user0hello :)00:17
user0hows everyone today?00:17
andre__ggoebel: it is linux based, but if those parts that are closed source don't receive updates by its owners those parts are stuck.00:17
javispedro"a few" is, like, 3.00:17
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Sazpaimonjavispedro, more than a couple00:18
ggoebelandre__: <nod>00:18
Sazpaimonunless you swing that way00:18
user0MohammadAG, DocScrutinizer , how are you guys doing today?00:18
user0just sent my n900 back to the shop for them to deal with the problem00:19
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jacekowskiggoebel: linux has shorter support than windows00:20
rm_worklcuk: yeah, i *hope* ABL is still functioning properly and availble from extras00:20
jacekowskiggoebel: lot shorter00:20
jacekowskiggoebel: unless you can do it yourself00:20
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Sazpaimonyeah, usually when a new version of a linux OS comes out the old one is quickly abandoned00:21
Sazpaimonwindows at least has a long term support cycle00:22
derfWindows also has a much longer release cycle.00:22
ggoebelnice... found
rm_workwindows also has fairly tight-fisted control over what happens at the OS level :P00:23
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derfThey've already dropped support for the version two versions ago, it's just that was released in 2001.00:23
ggoebeljacekowski: depends on whether you're talking about driver support or programming apis00:23
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Sazpaimonderf, windows xp was a special exception00:23
jacekowskiggoebel: both00:23
Sazpaimonin microsoft's defense they created a new OS, canned it, and then made another while XP was out00:24
ggoebeljacekowski: beg to differ... but suppose we beg off the usual back and forth and agree to disagree?00:24
Sazpaimontalking about longhorn -> vista00:24
rm_workggoebel: also
ggoebelrm_work: thanks00:25
jacekowskiggoebel: get any linux app that was made 10 years ago, and try to run it now00:25
lcukrm_work, :)
lcukstill needs wiring up correctly!00:26
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rm_workit's the wiring up that was annoying as @#&$ originally00:26
rm_workwhich is why i had to do it :P00:26
rm_workotherwise i feel like it would have been done00:26
rm_workoh, and figuring out how to make a GTK statusbar applet actually LOOK right00:26
lcukheh yeah00:27
lcuki think it took several weeks to find a single define function00:27
rm_workand's first successfully paid bounty :P00:27
* rm_work bought jott a bear00:27
rm_workNOT A BEAR00:27
rm_workOH GOD00:27
* rm_work is mauled00:28
jacekowskilcuk: why not link it at compile time?00:28
lcukjacekowski, complex00:28
lcukjust needs a switch() statement really00:28
rm_worklcuk: ROFL: "// from the bowels of abl"00:29
lcukbut had other things work related sidetracking00:29
lcukrm_work, ;)00:29
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rm_workwas gonna say you needed to set the scaling factors properly, but then saw your comment at the top when looking for the defines :P00:31
rm_workbecause the system method is like... WTF00:31
rm_workthe formula for that number is retarded00:31
rm_workhave you looked at autodetection for choosing the method yet?00:31
rm_workthe way we did it was based on the hardware revision >_> which is... bleh00:32
rm_workbut works00:32
lcukrm_work, not looked in that file for ages00:32
rm_worki tend to write hacky code to get the job done at first and then go back to fix things once it actually WORKS end to end, doing regression testing as I go00:32
lcukI did however find all the sketches relating to its design00:32
rm_workthat's one of those things we never really found a better method for00:33
rm_worklol yeah00:33
rm_worki remember, you linked them :P00:33
rm_workwould like to see the end product at some point00:33
rm_workit sounds like it'd work nicely00:33
rm_worki'm imagining putting my finger at the top, dragging left/right and also down, then getting to the next level and repeating, and again00:34
rm_workwonder if it actually works that smoothly in reality00:34
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rm_workthough you have to meter the requests because otherwise you spam DSME and it goes whacko00:34
lcukit would work today if it was wired up00:36
lcukI however dunno which to do, send me a patch00:36
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lcukrm_work, disco brightness ;)00:37
lcukshould have noise whilst you wiggle00:37
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rm_worklol yeah00:37
rm_worklcuk: what do you need a patch for? your file looked good, besides the scaling00:37
rm_workwhich is only really necessary for the sys method, i believe00:37
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rm_workwhich is only on 770 <_<00:37
lcuki am currently setup on ideapad00:38
lcukmy n900 is in user mode and scratchbox isnt running00:38
rm_worki never got HAL support functioning00:38
rm_workdoes Meego use HAL?00:38
rm_workor DSME still00:38
rm_workif it still uses DSME... well, you have the code00:38
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rm_workABL was super useful for getting a real job BTW... I got to say things like "have experience with translation of applications using l10n :P00:40
lcukhehe indeed00:40
lcukI am heading to London this weekend00:41
rm_workI'm not :(00:42
rm_workI wish I was00:42
rm_workthat'd be awesome00:42
lcukgoing to this:
rm_workalso a long and expensive flight <_<00:42
lcukyou would fall asleep in the mcdonalds :P00:42
rm_workpartnered with Nokia :P00:42
rm_worklcuk: lol00:42
rm_workat least I didn't VOMIT in the mcdonalds00:42
lcukyes, true00:43
rm_worki'm holding on to that :P it's all I've got00:43
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lcukthe collective will of every McDonalds employee is also pleased00:43
lcukrm_work, Nokia are supporting part of it sure00:43
lcukbut they say:00:44
rm_worki just think thats funny00:44
rm_worki was really impressed with them before, for supporting the community the way they did00:45
rm_workbut now with Elop and all the crap thats going on, it's just "wtf"00:45
rm_worklike, are they supporting us, or dropkicking us into the nether?00:45
rm_workI can't tell <_<00:45
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lcukrm_work, meh00:46
rm_worklcuk: yes, "meh" describes how I feel right now about that00:46
rm_workbut i guess for now i'll say "it's still cool that they're supporting the community like that"00:47
lcuknot sure where the balance is coming from00:47
lcukbut the first revisions of that and the paperwork I have talks about being platform agnostic00:47
lcukbut does not specify a toolkit00:47
lcukso I can stand up and talk about liqbase bits00:48
lcukin context of liqbase00:48
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user0-something just came to mind00:50
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rm_workuser0-: OH NO00:50
rm_workquickly, forget everything!00:51
* rm_work is in a jovial mood today00:51
user0-hmm they've done it already00:51
user0-its just not everything works00:52
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DocScrutinizerwhat? that's obviously SHR00:55
DocScrutinizerof course we did it00:55
DocScrutinizerlike 9 months ago00:55
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user0-DocScrutinizer : i sent the damn phone back to the shop00:56
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DocScrutinizeruser0-: probably best yu can do00:57
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user0-DocScrutinizer : i could have installed meego on an sd card and got the code00:58
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ShadowJKah, bought device with lock code? :-)00:59
user0-but this shouldn't happen so let them deal with the problem00:59
DocScrutinizersure you could, but that doesn't explain why it is acting up like it did00:59
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user0-ShadowJK : it started asking for one after flashing it00:59
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yep, plus it wasn't resettable as it's supposed to be, according to MohammadAG00:59
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ShadowJKmmm supposed to be trivial to crack, but it takes effort i guess01:01
user0-DocScrutinizer : i was expressing how useless the rescue initrd was moments ago at #meego  :P01:01
DocScrutinizernot trivial when system refuses to boot01:01
DocScrutinizerI guess reply was .....01:01
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user0-that i was right and that the wiki page is missing a lot :P01:02
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user0-they were asking each other what was the point of usb networking01:02
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: if you got the opportunity eventually, you'd not want to miss to test enabling lockcode prior to rootfs reflash, to see if it gets reset01:02
DocScrutinizerlol @ user0-01:03
ShadowJKUh, i'm pretty sure it doesn't get reset?01:03
user0-the info online regarding that was mixed01:03
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user0-i ended up translating sites from Arabic and Chinese to know the answer yesterday01:05
ShadowJKisn't lock code stored with CAL and stuff..01:05
user0-didn't even get it, worked for some people, didn't for others01:06
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: MohammadAG claims the fact it shall get queried is in gconf, and gconf gets reset on flashing rootfs01:07
DocScrutinizera big hoax, but comes handy when overriding a forgotten lockcode01:08
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ShadowJKwas it MohammadAG or someone else who stared at disassembly of NOLO and stuff..01:08
MohammadAGgconf should be stored on ~ imo01:08
DocScrutinizeralas I never heard anybody actually *testing* it, that's why I asked if you... eventually... (I'm rarely ever flashing rootfs)01:09
MohammadAGwhat does NOLO have to do with this?01:09
MohammadAGand no, it was probably jacekowski01:09
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: jacekowski01:09
ShadowJKiirc he found the lock code in CAL, and figured out the default code is stored in plain text, and when setting code it gets stored as hash(code+salt), where salt is constant01:10
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ShadowJKbut my memory isn't that reliable :P01:10
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: (should be stored in ~) maybe it is, partially, and that's why you need to nuke both, rootfs AND eMMC01:10
DocScrutinizerwould make a lot of sense01:10
MohammadAGno need to nuke eMMC to clear gconf actually :p01:11
MohammadAGjust rootfs01:11
MohammadAGand setting a gconf value as root or user does the same01:11
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: (figured default) that's been me :-)01:11
ShadowJKah ok01:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: please TRST it01:11
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MohammadAGtest what?01:12
MohammadAGit's 12345 on the other N900 here01:12
DocScrutinizerwe all know how to *simulate* it with gconftool01:12
MohammadAGplain text01:12
MohammadAGI don't want to change that :P01:12
DocScrutinizeryes, that means you never changed it01:12
MohammadAGyeah, not my personal N900 so no reason to do so01:12
user0-DocScrutinizer : you remember the flashers output that was something like ( x kb of  y kb ) yesterday ?01:13
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user0-you made a geekish joke back then with something regarding the speed of light..01:13
DocScrutinizer(simulate) and I believe in your tests with gconftool regarding the lockcode disabling. Nevertheless there *might* be more to it01:13
user0-y was 0 on windows01:13
DocScrutinizeruser0-: yes01:13
user0-on linux x=y01:14
DocScrutinizertransmitting arbitrary amount of data in 0 seconds is speed-of-light for flashing01:14
MohammadAGhow it should be01:14
ShadowJKI wonder if the gconf key is written to on boot01:14
MohammadAGShadowJK, DocScrutinizer qwerty12 lost his key and had to recover, he found out flashing recovers access to the device01:15
DocScrutinizerwell, if *anybody* dares to enable lockcode prior to next flash...01:15
DocScrutinizerwe'd know for sure01:15
user0-i'll be flashing it if it comes back with an older firmware tomorrow01:15
DocScrutinizerno problems as long as you know your own lockcode01:16
user0-so i'll do whatever testing you have in mind01:16
user0-thats for sure :)01:16
MohammadAGfirst post here
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ok, I'll look into it, but it might have changed, no?01:17
DocScrutinizerI can tell it's an old post, just from the URL ;-P01:17
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user0-perhaps i'll get SHR running on an sd card before flashing tomorrow01:19
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: also he doesn't state WHAT he had to flash, maybe >>let me remind you that I had to reflash the phone and blasted all of the files I had on here along with all my settings and applications<< implies he flashed eMMC too?01:23
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, extra research shows
DocScrutinizerstill I'm worried nobody succeded in actually doing it recently01:25
user0-MohammadAG : i read his/her posts yesterday01:26
DocScrutinizerI'd feel a WHOLE LOT better when talking users like user0- thru all of it, when I got some recent confirmation of the process working with PR1.301:26
MohammadAGhis, saying her in the maemo community wouldn't be sexism imo :p01:27
MohammadAGerr, him*01:27
DocScrutinizerit's just so simple to change the cruft that checks lockcode on boot01:27
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DocScrutinizerso nobody knows if Nokia fixed that vulnerability in PR1.3 or not01:27
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DocScrutinizerif I were to implement that, I'd place a cookie to ~user/ as well, and only ignore lockcode if both rootfs and ~user got nuked01:29
DocScrutinizerso all your data is safe, and you recover by lockcode loss via FULL reflash (root&eMMC)01:30
DocScrutinizerclean solution - and so easy01:30
user0-DocScrutinizer : have you been getting many users with the problem?01:31
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user0-DocScrutinizer : if i find the time tomorrow i'll be flashing it a few times to see what was causing it01:35
DocScrutinizercool, thanks01:35
DocScrutinizerdon't forget your lockcode ;-)01:35
DocScrutinizerjust in case01:36
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DocScrutinizerbtw, *which* process actually deals with lockcode?01:44
MohammadAGwait for it, wait for it, mce01:45
MohammadAGstop mce; sleep 1; start mce prompts for the code01:45
DocScrutinizergonna strace the sucker ;-)01:45
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DocScrutinizersee where it looks for secret bits about asking lockcode or not01:45
MohammadAGgconf :p01:46
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MohammadAGjust string the library with the UI in control panel01:46
DocScrutinizerwhy not ~user/.gnome/letslockit as well?01:46
MohammadAGit's libcpdevlock I think01:46
MohammadAGit's in /usr/lib/hildon-control-panel01:46
MohammadAGcause Nokia didn't think an average crook can flash rootfs01:47
DocScrutinizerI'll jus see if it touches eMMC when *enabling* lockcode01:47
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MohammadAGnope, sure it doesn't :p01:48
DocScrutinizeras it would need to flip both toggles if there's one in rootfs *and* one somewhere hiding on eMMC01:48
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: how do you know?01:48
DocScrutinizergiven I had source of mce, I'd "fix" this vulnerability in ~5min01:50
DocScrutinizerrefer what they did with cherry ;-)01:51
MohammadAGI dug around a lot when looking for something for chem|st01:52
MohammadAGnot sure what it was01:52
DocScrutinizer-- if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK)01:55
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DocScrutinizer++ if get-gconf(GCONFKEY_USE_LOCK) or fstat(PATH_TO_LOCKCOOKIE_IN_HOME, void)01:55
DocScrutinizercan go to mce any time, for any past or future mce update Nokia ships01:56
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DocScrutinizerunless somebody compares md5 for mce in PR1.0 with what we got today and oesn't find a diff, we don't know for sure01:57
DocScrutinizeror somebody *demonstrates* flashing rootfs is sufficient for PR1.301:58
DocScrutinizerarguably the option to boot meego or rescue-initrd and access eMMC data this way somewhat completely defeats the purpose of a lockcode01:59
DocScrutinizerbut you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device02:01
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DocScrutinizerNokia could even fix NOLO and completely protect the device this way02:03
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DocScrutinizerNOLO: if I'M_FLASHING_ROOTFS and check-cal-key(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "yes") then {set-cal-key(LOCK-CODE, "invalid); set-calkey(MCE-HAS-SET-LOCKCODE, "reflash-emmc-too-to-unlock")};02:09
Sceltnolo means ackward in Finnish02:09
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DocScrutinizerand FIASCO means... errhm02:10
SceltI guess the developers of Nolo also knew it ;)02:10
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DocScrutinizerbtw my approach as sketched above still has vulnerabilities, but definitely it would spoil the day for joe random-lifter interested in your data02:13
rm_youjoe random-lifter will say "hrm, this looks like a cellphone. sell to pawn-shop."02:19
rm_youi think you may be overestimating the majority of the criminal element02:20
rm_you"but you never know if they didn't think they at least should fix the unprotected MyDocs from simple rootfs flashing which is what every noob would try first to unlock the device"02:20
rm_youevery noob wouldn't even know what maemo is02:20
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DocScrutinizerthis doesn't really matter here, does it?02:29
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rm_youjust saying02:30
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rm_youyou make it sound like any random person on the street might pick up my cell phone and immediately think "AH, I know, I'll just flash the rootfs and that way i'll have easy access to his data" >_>02:31
rm_you90% of people on the street will be like "durrr, cellphone" and the rest will be like "cool, smartphone... wait, this isn't android. LAME."02:31
DocScrutinizeras long as the average service shop finds the MyDocs data gets exposed despite lock code, on a regular flashing of "firmware", this might just be sth Nokia feels the should change02:32
rm_youyour point is still valid though if you're legitimately concerned with security02:32
rm_youhopefully you understand my point tho :)02:33
DocScrutinizerI simply didn't bother to elaborate in it02:33
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rm_youi'm just poking fun mostly, as it seems you're the pedantic person in this channel most often :P02:34
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DocScrutinizeras it's about what Nokia might wnat to do or have done already, not about actually implementing sth community driven to improve security02:34
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smharI have lost my N900 -actually stolen- and after using another phone for a month I am dying to get an N900 again, so I am checking ebay for used ones. what is a good price for  a used N900 in good-condition?02:36
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wblazesmhar: I paid $300CAD recently02:37
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wblazeand watched a brand new phone sold for the same price02:38
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DocScrutinizeron a random shop I've seen two used ones sold for 240EUR02:39
DocScrutinizerI think it's too much though02:39
DocScrutinizers/sold/on sale/.02:40
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smhartried local shops here, no new and no used. I felt like I am the only one who is -was- using it :-)02:41
SpeedEvilsmhar: where are you?02:42
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DocScrutinizerI've been amazed when I've seen that pair of N900. Been the first time I've seen one in a shop02:42
smharSpeedEvil, Bahrain02:42
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SpeedEvilI found I'm getting ads from nokia as baner ads, advertising the n900 as still for sale on contract. UK only. And I don't know if it's real.02:43
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wblazethey're still on sale new in canada02:44
smharSpeedEvil, Nokia and their local agent here never ran an ad for N900. it was a very silent comer to the market02:45
wblazestores aren't stocking them though, as far as I have seen - it's special order only02:45
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wblazeprice is rediculous though02:47
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smharI think Nokia discontinued it02:49
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DocScrutinizer(2 N900)02:57
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DocScrutinizerI wonder how long will persist - wasn't it discontinued?03:35
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iluminator101hi when i play certain videos on n900 after i play it once it says file not supported?04:34
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GonzoTheGreatare you overclocking?04:45
GonzoTheGreator undervolting04:46
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DocScrutinizeriluminator101: there's a known issue with some video encoded in some particular format makes the GFX hw accel hang. AFAIK you have to reboot after that to recover. Shouldn't say "file not supported" for just one file then, but doesn't playback any video05:12
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DocScrutinizerthe effect is reproducable with particular "offending" video files05:12
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DocScrutinizerprobably a bug in the hw accel decoder code05:13
DocScrutinizeractually OC and messing with core voltages can also cause a lockup, and in case of OC this can be permanent flaw that causes frequent lockups even when clock is reverted to normal05:15
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SpeedEvilCorrupt files can also wedge the decoder in a state that needs a reboot05:18
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GonzoTheGreatI can reproduce this undervolting. The "gpu" really doesn't like it.05:30
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DocScrutinizersure, otherwise Nokia had chosen lower voltage to make for longer battery endurance05:31
GonzoTheGreatSome people are just lucky. But then again they probably have dodgy usb ports05:32
DocScrutinizerand if OC was without risk and damage, Nokia for sure would not run the device underclocked to give nerds sth they can "add 2 eggs and a glass of milk to bake the cake"05:32
iluminator101DocScrutinizer, exactly have to reboot05:34
DocScrutinizerwarranty is max 2 years afaik. So expect device to break in less than that when you overclock. Of course that's worst case scenario05:34
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GonzoTheGreatThen mine runs quite ok slightly overclocked and undervolted. Just enough to get better battery and play some videos it wouldn't otherwise.05:34
iluminator101DocScrutinizer, how can i fix this05:34
DocScrutinizerdon't play back the killing file05:34
GonzoTheGreatiluminator101: so are you undervolting or not?05:35
iluminator101GonzoTheGreat, no stock didnt make any changes05:35
GonzoTheGreatdid you pause the video?05:36
DocScrutinizerfind which file kills the gfx engine. delete the file05:36
DocScrutinizerget same movie in another encoding or rate or whatever05:36
iluminator101GonzoTheGreat, yea sometimes05:36
GonzoTheGreatSeem to remember it did that for me. It couldn't resume from those points.05:37
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GonzoTheGreatI can't remember where those "bookmarks" are stored.05:37
GonzoTheGreatTry moving it somewhere and rename it and moving it back. It think it is handled by tracker.05:38
* GonzoTheGreat waits for DocScrutinizer to get warmed up05:38
DocScrutinizererr wut?05:39
GonzoTheGreatI mentioned the "t" word05:39
DocScrutinizerit's some particular encoding sequence occasionally occuring in random arbitrary video files. If you run into such a file that has the killer sequence, you can do really little about it05:40
DocScrutinizerthe t word gets eaten for breakfast05:40
SpeedEvilYou can add another media player - mplayer for example - and watch it using that.05:40
DocScrutinizerand actually is unrelated here05:41
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: indeed05:41
DocScrutinizergood point05:41
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GonzoTheGreatDocScrutinizer: could it be that seeking to a "bookmarked point" in certain files could trigger this but not playing "across" this point?05:46
DocScrutinizermight, but unlikely05:47
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe there are special "hints" for searching in such video files, that aren't used for normal playback05:47
DocScrutinizerso if such a hint is flawed... X-[05:48
DocScrutinizerhints like a linked list of forward pointers to next second, minute, etc05:48
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DocScrutinizeryou'd not need that for normal playback, but for searching to a particular point it's useful, and can break things if such pointer is defect05:50
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DocScrutinizerusually the distance between 2 i-frames (full picture) is limited, i.e. there must not be more than x differential frames between 2 i-frames. Sometimes encoders violate that rule. Results may vary depending on decoder05:54
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internetishardIs there a way to make the n900 only connect to one wifi network?06:12
internetishardautomatically that is?06:12
internetishardso it doesn't connect randomly to every network it sees, except for my home network06:13
DocScrutinizererr yes06:14
wblazeisn't that the default behavior?06:14
DocScrutinizerlook on tmo for details06:14
DocScrutinizerI thought as well06:14
wblazeI usually switch off wifi when I am out anyway... but still06:15
DocScrutinizerconnect auto only to known networks06:15
* DocScrutinizer never06:15
wblazemeh, battery life is bad enough without scanning wifi while driving06:16
DocScrutinizerN900 does wlan@home -> GPRS when I leave home, and it goes gprs -> wlan@MyPub when I arrive there06:16
internetishardoh, so you make only one network "known"?06:17
internetishardhow is this done?06:17
wblazesettings->internet connections->connections06:18
DocScrutinizersettings -> internet connections: "automatic coonect"->all , "[x] switch to wlan when available"06:19
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wblazedelete any wifi profiles not your home wifi06:19
DocScrutinizerunder connections -> connections you get the known ones and can delete those you don't like06:20
DocScrutinizerdepending on your needs for battery life and connectivity you may want to use an interval for WLAN search of 5, 10, 30, or 60 min06:21
DocScrutinizerwblaze: how long are you driving?06:22
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DocScrutinizerI'm using a scan interval of 10min and think that's just fine06:23
wblazedepends on the day06:23
DocScrutinizeresp since UMTS fills in the gaps between wifi hotspots and scan intervals06:24
DocScrutinizerwhich I'm going to demonstrate right now06:24
wblazeoften multiple hours06:25
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internetishardthat means I can't save wep keys for connects that I don't want to auto connect to?06:27
internetishardI've dozens of  profiles that will probably come in handy at times06:28
wblazedisable those profiles06:28
wblazeenable when needed06:28
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wblazehm, apparently not06:29
internetishardIndeed, this is annoying functionality06:29
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internetishardThey really need to open up their software so we can fix all the non-sensical stuff06:29
internetishardlike not have groups in the address book06:29
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SpeedEvilinternetishard: indeed06:29
wblazei find it easier to just use wifi switcher, tbh06:30
internetishardI thought they dropped support... why don't they have it open already?06:30
SpeedEvilinternetishard: It's still actually for sale in some markets.06:30
internetishardI'm tired of manually switching to wifi everytime I get home, and forget, and then get a skype call over 3g or something06:30
SpeedEvilBut - logic doesn't work so well.06:31
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* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass07:08
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internetishardHope I can get an easy work around for this soon07:19
internetishardI want to have all of those profiles since they've lots of wep keys saved, but I only want to auto connect to one network (home)07:19
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cloudyLights~seen lardman10:17
infobotlardman <~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 12h 31s ago, saying: ''.10:17
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* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass10:24
DocScrutinizer~smack cloudyLights10:25
* infobot smacks cloudyLights upside the head.10:25
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DocScrutinizerMacer: ?10:38
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DocScrutinizerdo you also want a smack from infobot ?10:39
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DocScrutinizerit's so nicely ambiguous10:40
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Maceri am a cow moo?10:42
Macerwtf? :)10:42
Maceri used my g2 for 2 days before i couldnt take android anymore and swapped back to my n90010:43
Maceri just have had it collecting dust10:44
Macerwish i could put maemo on it :)10:44
Macerthat would be so awesome10:44
Macerthe hardware isn't too bad10:44
Macerflimsy.. but internally it is ok10:45
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DocScrutinizerhmm, confirmation needed (by actual EE)11:27
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DocScrutinizer ...11:29
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tzafrirbah. I just had my N900 ring non-stop. Had to power it off to stop it from ringing11:31
cloudyLightshi tzafrir11:35
cloudyLightsdidnt know you own a N90011:35
cloudyLightsI am assuming you are that asterisk dev - right?11:36
cloudyLightswant to test this app I wrote?11:36
tzafrirWhat is it?11:36
cloudyLightsswitch the profile according to the meetings in the calender11:37
tzafrirI hardly use meetings, so I'll pass11:38
cloudyLightsalso , did you see the attempt to raise funds to get waze on N900?11:38
cloudyLightsany special code you wrote lately?11:38
tzafrirand no. I hardly care about waze. I like to keep my phone clean11:38
cloudyLightsbtw, I no longer work for VS11:38
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cloudyLightstzafrir: did you write any code for the N900?11:40
tzafrirNo, not really11:40
cloudyLightsany GPL code you published lately?11:40
cloudyLightsjust to know if there is anything new.....11:41
tzafrirMostly asterisk-related things11:44
cloudyLightsyes I know11:44
cloudyLightsI just synced my work calender (exchange) with my N90011:45
cloudyLightsmail for exchange - WORKS11:46
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cloudyLightsI used to try it with google and fial11:46
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cloudyLightshi Khertan_11:53
cloudyLightsI am so new to development in FSF11:53
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Khertan_Morning !12:13
Khertan_cloudyLights: Hi12:13
Khertan_cloudyLights: congrats now you have just to push it to extras devel :)12:13
cloudyLightsI was so happy yesterday , that I finally got a deb file12:13
cloudyLightsI thought about this app 5 years ago12:14
cloudyLightsand promissed to code it on my N900 - when I got it12:14
cloudyLightsactually I bought the N900 to push me to develop for it12:14
cloudyLightsso now after so much time , I got a working program12:15
cloudyLightsthanks you12:15
Khertan_your welcome12:16
Khertan_can i suggest you KhtEditor to code on device ? :)12:16
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cloudyLightshmm, I used vi12:16
cloudyLightsI used ssh to the N900 , but also the N900 keyboard on the bus12:17
Khertan_yep but vim on maemo wasn't compiled with python so cannot syntax check on the flight12:17
Khertan_with pyflakes :)12:17
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cloudyLightspyflakes.... ok12:19
cloudyLightsI wish I had a location lib for python12:19
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Khertan_a location lib ?12:20
cloudyLightsI still need to write a program to deal with profile12:21
cloudyLightsto allow my SO to ring , even if the phone is in silent12:21
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cloudyLightsbut then , I need an application to wake me up in the bus12:22
cloudyLightswhen I am near my stop - wake me up12:22
cloudyLightssay: if the cellular tower changes to X - alert me12:22
Khertan_hum ... you can use QtMobility.Location for gps12:25
Khertan_but not sure you can catch cellular tower12:25
cloudyLightscellular tower info - is cheap on the battery12:25
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Khertan_cloudyLights: could interest you12:28
robbiethe1stBah! Just attach a home-made 3000+mAh battery, never worry about it running out again!12:28
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DocScrutinizercloudyLights: you should look into dwimd12:29
DocScrutinizerI think development stalled at some point, but it did kinda work12:30
cloudyLightsright - I see this12:32
DocScrutinizerI contributed a few ideas and concept bits, so I think this is a rather nice concept12:33
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Khertan_cloudyLights: you could also use agps data only : QGeoPositionInfoSource::NonSatellitePositioningMethods12:39
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ShadowJKin Maemo4 there was location bindings for python12:44
DocScrutinizer~lart qtmobility12:44
* infobot nukes qtmobility with a single large nuke12:44
ShadowJKisn't qtmobility the thing that runs all sensors all the time, eating battery12:45
DocScrutinizerprobably developed on i5 servers for laptops12:46
DocScrutinizerI'm not at all excited about it12:47
DocScrutinizeralas there'll be plenty of apps built on qtm, and then users flame about N900 hw again - "ohnoes it cuts thru 5 batteries a day. This phone is such a piece of ****"12:49
DibblahCool. Load-tested my new battery.12:50
Dibblah1604mAh last measured discharge.12:51
Dibblah(After 3 cycles, last two were the same.12:51
ruskie <-- at a quick glance it looks almost like a maemo device12:51
ShadowJKWhat battery is that?12:51
ShadowJKand cycle count since learning?12:52
Dibblahby "the same" I mean 159212:54
DibblahAbsolutely massive presentation case, though. Almost as big as a VHS box.12:54
DibblahAnd they sent 3 of them.12:54
Dibblah... Admittedly, they sent 3 because I ordered 3.12:55
ShadowJKI'd get one of those but I'm worried about the extra thickness :)12:55
DibblahNot really an issue.12:55
DibblahIt fits just fine.12:55
ShadowJKWorried extra pressure is a contributing factor to the "crossed out sim" plague :)12:56
DibblahThe humorous part to me is it's marked as a 1420mAh cell.12:56
ShadowJKWell, bq27200 measures down to 3248mV and assumes there's 6% left, which isn't necessarily the case..12:57
DocScrutinizershouldn't there be no pressure to SIM holder at all, from battery12:57
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, the sim holder is probably not relevant12:58
DibblahIt is slightly heavier, which I find interesting.12:58
ShadowJKin dmesg it looked like cellmo was crashing or the data lines between cellmo and omap glitching12:59
DibblahNormal cell - 27.13g. New cell - 30.64g.12:59
Khertan_ShadowJK: qtmobility run all sensor if dev do nawak ... else only things asked by the dev13:00
ShadowJKSo typical Nokia soldering + periodic warping/bending + internal temp 60C == cellmo coming loose almost like musb port? :)13:00
* ShadowJK is just guessing13:00
RST38hHow do you BEND the freaking N900 board?13:00
RST38hDuring operation?13:00
RST38h+ N900 rarely exceeds 37oC13:01
Khertan_ShadowJK: nawak ... hum sorry a french argo words ... == stupid things13:01
Khertan_stupid unlogical things13:01
DocScrutinizeroh tepco13:02
ShadowJKRST38h, mine hit 60C in car when on charger, running navigation, streaming internet radio over hspa to car radio over fmtx :-)13:02
ruskieinsane setup13:02
RST38hShadowJK: Uh!13:02
Khertan_RST38h: else if you let it in your car like me ... it hit 70C and battery was killed13:02
infobot'tepco' (1 of 2): sth especially stupid or messed up; "this construction is completely tepco"; "please stop behaving tepco"13:02
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RST38hShadowJK: Mine got really hot only once - getting some torrents overnight, before qwerty12 fixed the throttling13:02
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RST38hKhertan; No way I am leaving the Precious in my car!13:03
ShadowJKit was like 700-900mA power consumption for 3 hours :P13:03
Khertan_using pylint on large source code can also make it hot13:03
Khertan_and drain battery in less than 30min13:03
ShadowJKbtw, it was awesome. The music paused for the naigation instructions, and then resumed. through car speakers :)13:03
robbiethe1stLeaving mbarcode open, at 1ghz can also make it hot ;)13:03
Khertan_RST38h: i ve two precious. ... and i forgot one in the car :)13:04
ShadowJKdraining battery in 30 minutes is kinda impossible13:04
Khertan_ShadowJK: it is !13:04
Khertan_ShadowJK: i do it more than one time13:04
ShadowJKLargest drain I've been able to get was about 1250mA, which still runs for almost an hour13:04
edheldilI have to buy car charger for mine. My old charger is unable to make it charge13:04
DocScrutinizerNO way13:05
Khertan_put large source code on the sd card13:05
Khertan_and use pylint to check it13:05
ShadowJKkhertan, are you aware that battery icon shows full until 50% or so :)13:05
DocScrutinizerbattery has 4.9Wh, which means your device would melt away at ~10W13:05
ShadowJKyour battery probably wasn't full to start with.. or then you have one of those cheap ebay batteries that say 1930mAh but actually have 600mAh13:06
DibblahJust measured. Old cell - 5.56mm x 60.00mm x 37.8mm    New cell - 5.95mm x 60.00mm x 37.8mm13:06
DocScrutinizerI think there's no way to go <90min, unless you find a way to short the battery or make some chips desolder themselves13:06
DibblahSo the only difference is .5mm in thickness.13:07
DibblahThat's including all labels, etc.13:07
ShadowJKDocScrutinizer, I wonder where battery protection chip cuts off for overcurrent?13:07
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DocScrutinizersome 2..3A13:08
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DocScrutinizersome simply cut out on V(vlow) on internal resistance13:09
DocScrutinizerI mean you got internal impedance of cell, plus PTC13:10
DocScrutinizereasy to bomb that down to <3.0V13:11
DibblahPicture of the insane presentation case.13:11
* DocScrutinizer drools over MX... while glaring on the disassembled twin here13:12
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DibblahThat's the GF (not grapefruit)'s MX.13:12
DocScrutinizer~nuke OMRON switches and whole OMRON13:13
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at OMRON switches and whole OMRON ... B☢☢M!13:13
DibblahI now have the Performance MX (Now with Less Features!)13:13
DibblahI was actually expecting the Performance MX to work as a USB mouse when USB tethered :(13:13
DocScrutinizerI mean, how bad is THAT - sell a 80EUR mouse and use 20ct crap switches that are known to break after 2 years of normal use for everybody13:14
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* DocScrutinizer utters curses against logitech13:16
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gomiamDocScrutinizer: hey, if you can spend 80 euros on a mouse now, you can do it again in two years. If you can't you should have bought the 40 euro one :P13:22
Khertan_ShadowJK: i didn't use this ebay cheap battery13:23
Khertan_ShadowJK: and battery was fully charged according to the green led :)13:23
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DocScrutinizer51Khertan_: I used all tricks I could figure to crank up discharging (except overclocking), and I could"mt get down to 1h with normal bat worth of discharge current13:55
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DocScrutinizer5130min for eating 5Wh is mere impossible13:56
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Khertan_DocScrutinizer51: maybe i should check my battery so14:00
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Khertan_DocScrutinizer51: the battery is inflated .... 2 or 3 mm14:01
DocScrutinizerthere's been a report about somebody killing his battery due to overheating by iirc transcoding a video on OC14:01
DocScrutinizereven that took longer than 30min I think14:02
Khertan_DocScrutinizer: mine probably got some trouble the day i forgot my n900 in the car14:02
DocScrutinizerKhertan_: so dispose it somewhere where explosions won't damage anything (no kidding)14:02
cloudyLightsDocScrutinizer: my freind manage to break his usb connector in his N90014:03
Khertan_DocScrutinizer: i ll give it to seller when i ll buy a new one14:03
Khertan_55Euros ... pfff14:03
cloudyLightsI remeber you gave a lot of advice on how to replace the connector14:03
meceThere's a danger with lithium batteries if they've bloated on overheating while discharging, they might catch fire if you recharge them.14:03
mececareful with that.14:04
Khertan_mece: i know i see some really dangerous things with more powerfull laptop battery14:04
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hajOkay.. Looks like i'm out regarding to N900...14:07
haj"   Please kindly be informed that N900 swap units are not available any more14:07
haj   and the official replacement swap units of N900 is N8. Therefore you14:07
haj   received this model, please do not send back the device."14:07
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DocScrutinizerinsist in a maemo device!14:08
Khertan_haj: ? We didn't have anymore n900 unit available we will send you a Nokia 32114:09
keriohold on, that's just for the time of replace, right?14:09
Khertan_haj: ? We didn't have anymore n900 unit available we will send you a Nokia 321014:09
Juozapashi is it possible to connect n900 to internet cable via "lan port - microUsb" cable or some other way (not wifi)?14:09
kerioi mean, you get your repaired n900 back eventually14:09
DocScrutinizersorry, insuline is out. Here, take some aspirin instead14:09
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: please check  and, both backwards until you find relating posts14:11
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DocScrutinizerhaj: I'd not accept such nonsense14:13
DocScrutinizerthey mustn't steal your N900 :-((14:13
hajI'm calling them already..14:14
JuozapasDocScrutinizer: but it looks like those topics are about connecting n900 to computer via usb cable and then taking internet from him or something like that.. i have only internet cable in my room and want to connect my n900 to the internet, i dont have any other hardware par example14:15
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe if you get a new N8, just maybe you can sell on ebaeh and get enough money to buy a used N900. But then OTOH they should give back your defect N900 plus enough money so you could buy a used one or even new one wherever you find14:15
DocScrutinizerJuozapas: not at all, friend.  not at all. this is about H-E-N14:16
Juozapask i will read it14:16
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JuozapasDocScrutinizer: :D thx14:21
shark_eyeHas anyone tried building apps for maemo using opencv?14:21
hajDocScrutinizer: I can get a new N900 on the web.. thing is it costs 1/3 more than a N8..14:24
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hajand noone wants a N8 so I can't sell it..14:24
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DibblahA "new" N900?14:27
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DibblahI thought production stopped some significant time ago...14:27
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Juozapasone more question... is it possible to download all map of europe (or some region) to use map without internet connection? now im travelling a bit and when i go to new city (that i never tried to look on map program) it shows me only green background because program can't download streets information.. i hope you understand what i'm talking about14:31
cloudyLightsyou can do it with a windows pc14:31
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Juozapasim using default ovi maps14:31
Juozapasf*ck.. i have only ubuntu netbook with me and i left my usb cable at home too14:32
hajstupid fucking assholes..14:35
ruskiethere is some howto for the ovi stuff iirc14:36
ruskiehow to get all the maps for offline use14:36
andre__haj: got problems?14:36
Appiahovi maps? dont think there is a offline feature14:36
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andre__ruskie, see the links in
povbotBug 9542: Pre-download maps without MSWindows machine + Maps downloader14:37
hajandre__: Yes.14:37
hajandre__: If you didn't see it:14:37
haj   Hi14:37
haj   Please kindly be informed that N900 swap units are not available any more14:37
haj   and the official replacement swap units of N900 is N8. Therefore you14:37
haj   received this model, please do not send back the device.14:37
haj   Thank you!14:37
haj   Best regards,14:37
haj   Dóra14:37
Appiahwhere did you buy it?14:38
andre__haj: uh. didn't see. thanks :-/14:38
ruskiehaj, hmm I think I'd go to court for that14:38
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ruskieyou can't replace a device with an inferior product14:39
hajI think I would too..14:39
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hajThe least they could do is promise me a N950 when it's released.. or something..14:39
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hajI can't use a N8 for anything.. it's not even heavy enough for a decent paperweight..14:40
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kerioso tell them to give you a n900 or to stfu14:41
ruskieusually they repair centers atleast around here tend to try and go the path of least resistance14:42
ruskiebut as soon you slam them they'll comply14:42
psycho_oreossome bloke the other day had his N900 swapped for n814:45
psycho_oreoscame into maemo channel posting link to his home made n8 usb hostmode or something14:45
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RST38hDoes'nt N8 have host mode by default?14:46
psycho_oreos*shrugs* its symbian.. enough said :)14:46
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keriodoensn't the N8 have otg?14:50
kerioty MohammadAG14:51
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hajWho cares what the N8 has... it's ruskie said..14:52
MohammadAG<ruskie> haj, hmm I think I'd go to court for that ++14:52
psycho_oreosthat's what I said before to that bloke, I'd sue them14:52
psycho_oreoserr not haj, another person14:52
MohammadAGeither fix my N900 or send it back and I'll fix it myself14:52
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MohammadAGtaking my N900 and sending me an N8 without permission is basically stealing my device14:53
psycho_oreossend it back without any extra charges or damages14:53
MohammadAGI wonder why Nokia dropped the N900's support14:54
MohammadAGthe way they "treated" it is worse than all other device14:54
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nid0legally, you'd need a very friendly judge to get anywhere via court though14:54
psycho_oreosand owners have to cop the blunt end of it ironically.. even though it costs money to purchase the device in the first place14:55
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ruskienid0, it might be enough to simply get a lawyer to nicely phrase something14:55
ruskieno need to actually go to court in the end... they probably don't want the mess anyway14:56
psycho_oreosI'm sure properly phrased terms could easily rule out a win14:56
psycho_oreoserr loss14:56
ruskiehell they might even return it if politely asked14:56
psycho_oreossymbian isn't maemo, nor is it vice-versa. Period14:56
psycho_oreosIts like swapping a Merc for Toyota14:56
nid0they might, but at the end of the day you will still end up with a broken n900 and no fix or replacement14:56
ruskienid0, we aren't talking about getting it fixed or replaced... just that they swapped it out without any consulting really14:57
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ruskienobody said... sure I'll take the N8 as a replacement for the N90014:57
nid0yeah, exactly as the warranty terms agreed-to by sending the device to them undoubtedly say they will14:57
ruskiewell they can swap it out for an equal or better device14:58
nid0if a device is unfixable, theyll replace it with a new one if available, or a pre-approved alternative if not14:58
ruskiewell if it's not the same device I want a call and be consulted14:58
psycho_oreosdepending on the owner's connections (via people), they can either get it fixed by someone else or they'll have to tackle it themselves. Either way, I would never want a n8 as a `swap device', even if it was given to me for free I wouldn't even want it14:58
nid0personally, I wouldnt see the problem in selling the brand shiny new n8, buying myself another n900, and pocketing the difference14:59
nid0win-win for me14:59
RST38hMohammad: To be fair, N900 is not the only handset Nokia has been unwilling to support14:59
ruskienid0, is the N8 pricier than a N900 ?14:59
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ruskiethat would work15:00
psycho_oreosn8 is nowhere near the equivalent of n900: no hardware keyboard, possible locked boot loader, doesn't have 32GB onboard and runs some other OS that one wouldn't generally be happy with if they want linux15:00
ruskiefrankly I'd ask them to refund me for the cost of it being broken and add a bit extra15:00
nid0you can get n900's for like £250 now, new n8's are generally somewhere around £40015:00
ruskieand have a spare n900 for parts15:00
ruskieand considering there is a 2 year warranty period on it I would expect they support it for 2 years15:01
ruskienot start swapping it out for alternatives after 18 months15:01
psycho_oreosalternatives for the equivalent15:01
jaskathey have no equivalent15:02
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: alternatives or the equivalent15:02
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infobotDocScrutinizer: thanks15:03
psycho_oreosjaska, apparently they're claiming N900's equivalent would be n8, or at least when they have to fix user's broken device15:03
ruskiehaj, is this from nokia directly or some official nokia repair center?15:03
DocScrutinizerwell, both start with N, and the first digit is only one apart15:03
jaskapsycho: ok, hope my n900 lasts till something good comes along :)15:03
* ruskie is hoping for 6 years life out of his n90015:04
psycho_oreosor you can also look at n95, starts with N, and is missing one digit :p15:04
* DocScrutinizer honestly considers getting a third device15:04
psycho_oreosjaska, only time will tell :/15:04
ruskieI still haven't gotten a second one15:04
ruskieI really should15:04
MohammadAG<RST38h> Mohammad: To be fair, N900 is not the only handset Nokia has been unwilling to support15:04
MohammadAGyeah I can see that, but why?15:04
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, got two already? nice, that makes the third actual person that I know whom owns more than one N90015:04
DocScrutinizerwas it this chan where I told about the 2 N900 I've seen in a shop, used15:04
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DocScrutinizerlast night I passed by same shop, bot were gone15:05
MohammadAGpsycho_oreos, plainly put, the N8 is boring after 2 days15:05
MohammadAGalso the low screen res actually makes a difference15:05
ruskiehmm ~200eur for the cheapest n900 second hame new in box15:05
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ruskiehmm interesting... someone is interested in exchanging a galaxy s for a n900 on an e7215:06
infobotruskie meant: hmm interesting... someore is interested in exchanging a galaxy s for a n900 on an e7215:06
psycho_oreosMohammadAG, n8, better yet its a dead end for any maemo tinkerer :)15:06
RST38hMohammad: They are a hardware company15:06
MohammadAGNokia? Nope, they weren't15:06
RST38hMohammad: They want you to buy phones as often as possible, thus planned obsolenscence15:07
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MohammadAGRST38h, the Nokia 5800 still gets updates every now and then15:07
RST38hMohammad: Besides, stuff like N76 was just so badly design, in such a rush, that they would have to recall all 100% of these15:07
RST38hMohammad: Because Nokia is still selling a shitload of 5800-derived models, the total number is about 815:07
psycho_oreosor that 1100 incident?15:07
RST38hMohammad: 5800 is far from dead. It is their low cost smartphone15:08
ruskiehmm I wonder if I have any spare 250 eur burning in my pocket next month...15:08
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psycho_oreosruskie, still planning to get new one?15:08
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psycho_oreos*nods* probably better that way, I got myself a second hand one (which seller insisted brand new).. was pissed but oh well15:09
ruskiewell second hand new in box15:09
ruskiestuff that people got with their cell phone contracts15:09
ruskieand are now selling15:10
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ruskieI will have to ask to see how much a new one costs though15:10
FIQ|n900I've never liked these "PC suite" stuff for any of my previous phones. or this one15:11
psycho_oreosbe aware or those weird stuff they put in, like for instance a non-genuine USB->uUSB cable (mine lasted me two or so days before it fails to even work properly) and that wired headset with extra buttons15:11
ruskieI never used pc/ovi suite15:11
jaskawc suite15:11
hajruskie: Nokia's main repairshop...15:11
FIQ|n900For some reason - and this count for EVERY SINGLE PHONE OR CARRIER - Internet part of it NEVER works properly15:11
jaskapsycho: yeah15:11
hajruskie: Guess they only have one in Europe15:11
psycho_oreosjaska, lol15:11
ruskiepsycho_oreos, naahh this are official in box everything as bought crap...15:11
FIQ|n900If it works, I'm lucky15:11
FIQ|n900But usually I'm not15:12
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psycho_oreosruskie, *nods*15:12
ruskiehaj, hmm well try contacting them to get your original device back15:12
FIQ|n900It just states "something's wrong, maybe your phone is damaged? :("15:12
FIQ|n900It NEVER states anything useful15:12
hajruskie: it's broken15:12
FIQ|n900like exactly why it fails15:12
FIQ|n900or where15:13
ruskiehaj, or contact your local consumer protection agency... they might be able to advise you if you can do anything15:13
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psycho_oreosthey dumbed it down for the average joe. Gives them the excuse to have joe getting it fixed15:13
ruskieeither legaly or even talk with them15:13
FIQ|n900And reconfiguring the thing never help - if it works, it works, if not, too bad15:13
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ruskiehaj, you could always get it repaired somewhere else15:13
hajokay.. they have told me that I have to contact the dealer that sold the device...15:13
* RST38h finally conquered Android's NativeActivity15:14
RST38hCan now pass arguments to it!15:14
RST38hAny poor souls with 2.3 Androids willing to be my guinea pigs?15:14
MohammadAGqmltube runs so well on a PC15:14
hajthey actually still have N900 in stock.. N8 costs DKR 2.695,-, and N900 costs 3.249,- ..15:14
ruskiehaj, probably to see if the dealer can replace it under warranty(I'm assuming it's still under warranty)...15:15
hajit is...15:15
FIQ|n900haj, they discovered that N900 was useful :)15:15
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hajI don't know if the warranty is reset when they give me a N8 ?15:15
FIQ|n900anyway, is there alternatives to this crappy nokia PC suite?15:15
ruskiehaj, it should be... for the N815:15
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RST38hAlternatives for doing what?15:15
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ruskieFIQ|n900, what are you trying to actually do?15:15
ruskiehaj, since it's a new device the warranty should start from then15:16
FIQ|n900use N900 as a modem15:16
psycho_oreosFIQ|n900, under windows?15:16
FIQ|n900because i'm not home atm, etc15:16
ruskieusb networking under windows...15:16
hajruskie: The N900 (that is proberbly scrap by now) is still under warranty until 12/201115:16
FIQ|n900currently, yes15:16
nid0you can just set it up manually, using bluetooth at least15:16
ruskiethere is a usb network driver for windows as well15:16
nid0i've never gotten usb tethering to work properly though15:16
ruskiehaj, irrelevant for the N900... the warranty is based on the new device... and usually needs to be reissued if the device is replaced15:17
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FIQ|n900ruskie, but it worked just for some weeks ago, it's just... pc suite says i fail D:15:17
ruskiepc suite has always been a broken PoS15:17
nid0yeah pc suite is like that15:17
FIQ|n900well, I'm unable to connect to internet at all with the computers... so drivers, I would have to download manually and transfer over :p15:18
FIQ|n900the computer*15:18
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ruskieFIQ|n900, got linux sources anywhere around?15:18
ruskiethe driver is included15:19
FIQ|n900i have linux as well15:19
ruskiespecifically linux kernel sources15:19
FIQ|n900if that would work better15:19
ruskielinux usb networking should work fine15:19
DocScrutinizertbh I don't understand why Nokia doesn't run another batch of N900. Manuf is cheap, once you got all set up correctly, and I guess they could get all the parts still15:19
ruskieload tho modules15:19
ruskiesetup forwarding on the n900(you'll probably need to do some NATing so iptables)15:20
* FIQ|n900 takes a look15:20
ruskiethere is a wiki page for this as well iirc15:20
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, they probably lost interest.. kinda like a hyperactive kid who gets bored real quickly ;)15:20
DocScrutinizerseems like15:20
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DocScrutinizersure N900 isn't a cashcow for them, but it'd help keep them in business for at least a while15:21
ruskieor some symbian product manager sent out a memo to mess up the maemo team...15:21
MohammadAGif only they pushed maemo and killed Symbian15:22
DocScrutinizeryou typically don't need a team to run a sequel batch15:22
psycho_oreoshowever this is nokia we're talking about :) and they're trying to cut costs whereever they see fit15:22
FIQ|n900if only they didn't throw MeeGo out randomly after spending huge amount of money on it15:23
psycho_oreosditched maemo, killed symbian, watches meego and promises to release wp7... good one nokia15:23
FIQ|n900(sure meego still something for them, but not much)15:23
MohammadAGthey didn't throw it out15:23
ruskiethey relegated it to long term R&D so basically same thing maemo was15:24
psycho_oreosthey're not officially supporting it however it seems15:24
MohammadAGthey should just FOSS'd maemo and continued on that15:24
cloudyLightsMohammadAG: are you also in tel aviv this weekend?15:24
MohammadAGno need for MeeGo15:24
hajruskie: They could replace it with a android device.. that would be less annoying... Even though I like maemo..15:24
ruskiethey don't have those15:24
hajruskie: but since Nokia doesnt do android ;)15:24
MohammadAGcloudyLights, nope, Jerusalem15:24
ruskieseriously though... nokia should have difersified more...15:24
ruskieeven take on android devices15:24
RST38hruskie: you should say that to the board once you become Nokia's CEO15:25
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ruskieit's simple logic... do I want the punter going to HTC/Samsung/etc... for the device with this OS which the punter wants OR do I want the punter to buy MY hardware with that OS...15:25
RST38hruskie: You should tell that to the Marketing department once you become Nokia's CEO15:26
RST38hBTW, 99% of customers do not know what "OS" means15:26
ruskieyet 99% of customers buy that shiny 'droid thing15:27
psycho_oreosits either be the black sheep or follow the herd. Elop chose to follow the herd even though that makes him in an unfavourable position just to satisfy his closest peers. Had he chose to be the black sheep amongst the herd he might have found the winner in the bigger picture15:27
RST38hBecause there are more models to select from and because it works for them15:27
RST38hThey probably do not know what it runs, or want to know15:27
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Khertan_RST38h: no they didn't know what os mean, but they know what is an iPhone and a Android Phone15:27
RST38hKhertan: true, too15:27
psycho_oreosyou can't not know iPhone lol15:28
RST38hElop has chosen the third option and become the black goat.15:28
Khertan_RST38h: it wasn't an option15:28
Khertan_RST38h: he is trying to create the third option ... probably some cashback somewhere15:28
psycho_oreosif he chose the third option, he'd probably be facing a possible sack by the board of directors15:28
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RST38hKhertan: Ok, so he has made Nokia a *sacrificial* black goat.15:29
cloudyLightsMohammadAG: do you need a 2400mAh battary for your N900?15:29
psycho_oreosso far there's no news indicating there's a bounty on Elop's head from board of directors :)15:29
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Khertan_did there us also ex ms people at the board ?15:29
cloudyLightsI ordered two by mistake15:29
MohammadAGMugen? nah, I have 4 1320 ones :p15:29
RST38hKhertan: At the end of the year, they will slash its throat, let it bleed, collect the booty and leave15:29
MohammadAGoh, how much?15:29
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Khertan_the only thing we can hope is a failure of WinPhone15:30
Khertan_and few sell15:31
cloudyLightsa freind of a freind bricked his N900 while trying to put android on it15:31
psycho_oreosRST38h, and nokia's board of directors would have stupidly agreed to sacrifice the brand itself?15:31
cloudyLightsdid anyone here use jtag to revive an N900?15:31
ruskiepsycho_oreos, for enough money I think most would15:31
cloudyLightsthis may be a chance to buy it for less15:31
cloudyLightshow to un-brick a N900?15:32
RST38hpsycho: Dunno, depends on who elects them there15:32
Khertan_cloudyLights: ^^Topic15:32
psycho_oreosruskie, true, money buys them almost anything these days.. even power :|15:32
RST38hEldar Murtazin, in the meantime, has switched to loud denials of any quality problems with Samsung SGS2 phones15:32
RST38hI wonder why such an abrupt change of direction =)15:32
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psycho_oreosRST38h, I don't know who votes them there but if it wasn't for the money I'm sure the board of directors wouldn't have been that boring to axe the long established brand name *shrugs*15:33
ruskieI thought the board is voted in by stockholders?15:33
cloudyLightso ok15:34
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Khertan_psycho_oreos: except with some cash15:34
Khertan_the me me me syndrom15:34
ruskiesadly the me me me syndrom is spreading lately :(15:34
psycho_oreoskhertan, portion, but yes ruskie pointed that out earlier. Money just walks the walk15:34
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hajI wonder what they tell people that have paid for software for their N900's when they replace it with a N8?15:35
psycho_oreosunapologetically sorry? ;)15:35
ruskiehaj, probably something along the line of: suck it15:35
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ruskieI always tend to go to the shop where I bought the device for warranty15:36
ruskiea lot of times they'll just replace it for a new unit and send the old one to be repaired15:36
hajruskie: I guess so... Sygic doesn't offer replacement licenses15:36
hajfor one15:36
psycho_oreossure enough, not all maemo users are average joe who'd only use a phone as it is. Have a look at what Sony had to face for pissing its own clientele off15:36
Khertan_ <<< doesn't seem uptodate15:36
ruskiepsycho_oreos, frankly Sony hasn't really pissed me off15:36
ruskiebut I'm probably in the minority15:37
Khertan_ruskie: you are15:37
* Khertan_ boycott sony products15:37
psycho_oreosruskie, in general Sony's PS3 lines were the ones that pissed that niche linux community off :). Those are the ones I'm talking about. They are essentially the worker bees that Sony decided to axe their hive and think they could get away with it15:38
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ruskieKhertan_, due to?15:38
* ruskie is interested in such reasons15:38
cloudyLights~seen lardman15:39
infobotlardman <~lardman@Maemo/community/contributor/lardman> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 17h 21m 47s ago, saying: ''.15:39
Khertan_ruskie: products dying one month after warranty, repairing a camera take 6 month without compensation15:39
e0525417I'm running kernel-power's "ideal". When I just do "kernel-config limits 500 900" and save as new profile, will the voltages be adjusted to the recommended values accordingly?15:39
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psycho_oreosin some cases I'd like to think that its more or less the same scenario here. There's already a small hacker community on maemo customising maemo in ways that nokia probably never thought possible. Nokia decides to behead the development, hopefully nokia will get its dosage of pissed off hackers ;)15:40
ruskieKhertan_, products dying after warranty is intentional by all manufacturers15:40
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ruskieKhertan_, the 6 month thing though most consumer laws have a max due date by which repair needs to be done or a replacement offered15:40
ruskieKhertan_, but you need to be the proactive party15:40
Khertan_ruskie: yeah ... pro active mean engage a lawyer15:41
ruskieit just means go bug them until they do it15:41
ruskieif they ignore you bring in the consumer protection organisation(s)15:41
ruskieif they ignore that various trade inspectors work15:42
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Khertan_ruskie: i already do that ... to contact them ... pay by minutes number15:42
Khertan_ruskie: haha ... consumer protection organisations ?15:42
ruskieI always handle this stuff in person15:42
Khertan_in france ?15:42
Khertan_they help you to engage a lawyer15:42
ruskieKhertan_, you don't have that?15:42
Khertan_but you have to finance it15:42
ruskiearound here if you are a member you get free legal advice... ani they will deal with them on your behalf15:43
Khertan_they give you free advice ... with adresses of specialized lawyer15:43
ruskieahh so nothing like our own15:43
ruskieours tend to annoy people even when not asked to15:44
ruskiethey're actually usefull to have15:44
Khertan_the best way to fight against problem is boycotting company you know have poor customers services and quality product15:44
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ruskiethough for me usually it helps if I'm getting crap from the service to get their director and talk to him15:44
ruskieKhertan_, well I haven't had such issues with sony products yet15:45
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ruskieand I have like a 12 year old sony crt tv and a near 20 years old sony mini component hi-fi15:45
Khertan_i got a camera which died without reason, a hifi, and a home cinema sound system15:46
ruskieyes both had to be repaired but it was wear and tear not something that was deffective15:46
ruskieand I have a ps3 since a little over a year ago15:46
ruskieand bought 2 flatscreen tvs this january15:46
ruskiewith 5 year warranty on those flatscreens15:46
Khertan_my neightboor is still fighting with sony warranty for his ps315:46
ruskiewhat happened?15:47
Khertan_since january15:47
ruskiewhen did he buy it?15:47
Khertan_ruskie: died ...15:47
Khertan_11.99 month before15:47
ruskiesucks :(15:47
ruskiehmm that definately should be fixed under warranty15:47
Khertan_so they claim than when they receive it wasn't under warranty15:47
ruskiedid he fire off an email to them?15:48
Khertan_even if he call them before the end15:48
ruskiesomething that is documented15:48
Khertan_and got a return number15:48
FIQ|n900i found this wikipage - - but it's about Maemo 415:48
Khertan_in fact the problem is more complex15:48
Khertan_they return it one time saying it s repaired15:48
Khertan_but didn't15:48
Khertan_and when he wan't to return it again, they say that warranty is over15:49
* SpeedEvil reads backscroll, and realises he should have sent his device off for repair before now.15:49
ruskieKhertan_, sucks I guess for such things...15:49
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, you have broken USB port?15:50
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: I have somewhat dodgy modem that sometimes forgets it has a SIM installed15:50
ruskieKhertan_, well I tend to always do any warranty stuff in person since they are less likely to try and get around things...15:51
Khertan_"Nokia announced on March 11, 2011 that it had paid Elop a $6 million signing bonus, “compensation for lost income from his prior employer," on top of his $1.4 million annual salary" <<< oh ... i found the R&D budget for MeeGo Handset at Nokia15:51
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, you're not telling me this is N900? :( My N95-1 has a very similar issue15:51
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: yes15:51
FIQ|n900oh, mine does that as well15:52
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, happen to know which CPU rev is that?15:52
FIQ|n900though it was just my sim card that had small problems15:52
ruskiethough had to threaten the local irobot repair&distribution director that I'll do everything in my power to get rid of their license if they don't fix an error that irobot accepts as an issue... I probably couldn't do it but I would cause so much bad publicity that they wouldn't be able to shift ...15:52
ruskie... much units15:52
ruskieKhertan_, fun15:52
FIQ|n900but fiddling with it usually helps, or does i mis-understand the problem?15:52
RST38hKhertan: Elop is actually more important to the corporate hierarchy than a bunch of weird geeks working on an obscure research project for years15:53
RST38hKhertan: Elop brings change!15:53
RST38hWhile geeks only bring negativity with their petty technical squabbles15:53
Khertan_RST38h: :)15:53
* RST38h trolls on15:54
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SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: 210115:54
ruskiegeeks make the world go round15:54
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Khertan_RST38h: hum ... be carreful the server you are using for chatting is made by geeks15:54
psycho_oreosFIQ|n900, if I'm not mistaken, it sounds like there's a fault with SIM area :( My N95-1 had that problem, often more than not it randomly says "Insert SIM car" and you can't do anything else apart from pulling battery out, reinserting SIM, replace battery and turn it back on again.15:54
ruskieor as someone commented... geeks are meant to get the general public interested in various gadgets so they sell15:54
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: exact same fault.15:55
RST38hKhertan: I am bringing them enlightenment!15:55
Khertan_psycho_oreos: most time i got this problem with device it s a defect sim card.15:55
SpeedEvilpsycho_oreos: I need to reboot.15:55
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, hmm.. I think that's also the same rev as ones that reported uUSB socket falling out15:55
psycho_oreosKhertan_, but then what if it was working fine before without any hitches before all of the sudden you get prompts like that?15:56
psycho_oreosSpeedEvil, yeah that'd also work but not always for me in the case of N95-1.. I haven't had the same issue with my N900s15:56
* Khertan_ have problably one of the first revision of n900 ... i got some error too like that. I think my n900 was the problem, and since i change the sim card i didn't get them anymore15:56
SpeedEvilKhertan: I've changed SIMs, and it still happens15:57
psycho_oreosI can't replicate the problem as the SIM card that I got was a prepaid and it was expired not long ago15:58
e0525417 does "kernel-config limits 500 1000" automatically set the appropriate volatages?15:58
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psycho_oreoshmm that reminds me... about first revision of N900. Yesterday I was playing with 0xFFFF extracting FIASCO images, when I targeted N900's FIASCO image, it writes out the filename along with all the possible revision numbers that came with N900 for files like secondary and xloader16:00
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Khertan_there is so much revision ?16:01
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psycho_oreosor maybe a group I suppose16:03
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Khertan_2nd-RX-51 ?16:05
Khertan_there is a first ?16:05
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Khertan_psycho_oreos: 210116:06
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Khertan_psycho_oreos: didn't know there is different keyboard texture16:09
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psycho_oreosKhertan_, I don't know if that's actually the first or are these sub-versions refer to something else completely different. My N900 are rev: 2204 and I can't find that number on pastebin16:09
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FIQTried another thing first, and it worked16:09
psycho_oreosdifferent keyboard texture? *shrugs* this is global PR1.3 firmware btw16:09
FIQ(tried to use mobile hotspot -- allthough it loves the battery, it works)16:09
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psycho_oreosso your N900 needs to be sucking off your computer's power through USB port ;)16:10
psycho_oreosthat and its insecure (uses WEP)16:10
Khertan_psycho_oreos: rev 2204 ? cat /proc/component_version ?16:10
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psycho_oreosKhertan_, haven't tried /proc/component_version, I did /proc/cpuinfo however16:11
psycho_oreosyeah hw-build is the same as /proc/cpuinfo's revision.. 220416:11
Khertan_indeed cpuinfo give me the same rev number16:11
FIQ(15:09:13) (psycho_oreos) so your N900 needs to be sucking off your computer's power through USB port ;)16:12
FIQnah, I use wall charger :P16:12
psycho_oreoshehe we're on the same page :) but I wonder what's those numbers are for.. I can't find 2204 in that or in the information 0xFFFF dumped so it must be basing off something else16:12
psycho_oreosFIQ, much better :)16:13
Khertan_psycho_oreos: i found this number in the image :
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Khertan_2204 seems to be a german variant16:14
psycho_oreosKhertan_, different fiasco?16:15
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GNUtoohow do I kill Xorg16:15
GNUtooI want to do some ts_test16:15
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Khertan_psycho_oreos: don't think16:19
psycho_oreosKhertan_, just wondering where you got that from though :)16:21
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Khertan_psycho_oreos: i got that from my flasher log16:26
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psycho_oreoskhertan, :o ... same file right? global fiasco firmware16:30
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mr_jrtRandom query: Is there another source of documentation for Maemo5's telepathy API? (other than - I'm using QtCreator and that doesn't provide the headers for telepathy-qt4, meaning I'm stuck with telepathy-glib, and the version provided doesn't even so much as list the Dbus properties available. Given that is my first attempt at any direct Dbus interaction via coding...thi17:34
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watersHello guys ... I have a problem with my N900, while browsing the web using my TP-Link TD-W8920G Router the N900 seems to crash the whole network18:41
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MoonTigerhey guys18:43
MoonTigerwould you say its better to use c or c++ for developing stuff on maemo?18:44
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jacekowskiwaters: i had same shit on iphone with similiar router18:57
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watersjacekowski: okay ...did u get a new router or did u fix it?19:00
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jacekowskiwaters: i got rid of iphone19:07
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mr_jrt@moontiger In my ridiculously limited experience, maemo is hevily gtk-based, so you're going to be doing C-style coding regardless of the API you choose at some point.19:12
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watersjacekowski: hmm well i dont wanna get rid of my N900 :)19:14
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rm_workMoonTiger / mr_jrt: well, I believe you can also use Qt now, which is C++ (in my equally limited experience)19:22
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MoonTigerthnx guys ... i think i'll stick to c19:22
MoonTigerim just playting with writing a simple identica client19:22
watersdoes anyone else know why the n900 could cause my router to crash?19:23
MoonTigerwaters ... is your laptop on the same router?19:23
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watersMoonTiger: yes19:26
MoonTigerwhat are you doing on the router in total?19:26
watersMoonTiger: laptop and desktop computer all on the same router19:26
SpeedEvilwaters: How close is your n900 to the router?19:26
MoonTigerany torrents going?19:26
watersMoonTiger: well let's say about 10 meters and no torrents going on19:27
MoonTigerwhat do you do on the n900 that causes the issue?19:27
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MoonTigerand keep it decent pls!19:27
watersMoonTiger: well usually just downloading a app from the app manager or browsing the web which both then causes the router to crash19:28
MoonTigerwhat router is it?19:28
SpeedEvilwaters: Ok - my thought was that the phone part is disturbing the router - but not at that distance19:29
watersTP-Link TD-W8920G19:29
MoonTigerare you sure there is no ip clashes?19:29
watersI have manually entered the IP for both my Laptop and Desktop computer19:30
MoonTigerand they are outside of the dhcp pool?19:30
watersMoonTiger: brb19:31
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hillbickshey everyone21:10
hillbicksanyone knows if sygic is no longer selling mobile maps for the n900?21:10
SpeedEvilHave you looked on their site?21:11
hillbicksi just get 404's with the old links and can't find anything on their page21:11
SpeedEvilwell - that would tend to indicate...21:11
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hillbicksi know, right? but i thought _maybe_ someone in here has some insight21:12
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hillbicksmrsellout: thanks for the bad news.  ;)21:23
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BluesLeehi, what to do if the emmc partition for MyDocs gets a read-only filesystem? why this happens?21:25
BluesLeethe file /etc/fstab contains a "rodir" entry, can i remove that?21:26
BluesLeethe file looks the same as on my second n900 ... reboot did not help21:31
BluesLee2nd reboot did it21:33
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ioananyone interested in a cheap N900? I wonder if I should buy it :-)
jacekowskiwell, if it's stuck in rebootloop then you may have a problem22:22
jacekowskibecause why he didn't fix it?22:22
jacekowskiit's 60s with flasher22:22
ioanprobably the owner doesn't know how to flash it? who knows what os version he has on it22:23
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jacekowskii would be cautious22:23
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ioannever heard of the reboot loop problem that doesn't fix with a reflash... did you?22:24
jacekowskinope, but i know that there are some hardware faults that may cause it22:24
ioanmaybe I should charge the person 25$ if I can fix it :-))22:25
rm_workioan: i had a rebootloop once that required me to send my device back to qgil22:27
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rm_workthat brings up a good question22:29
ShadowJKI've heard of emmc breaking, rootfs breaking, bad cpu and bad ram..22:29
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rm_workwho is alterego's main ego? :P22:29
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ioanrm_work: I sent an email to the seller to ask what OS version does he have, and when he reflashed last time. If he doesn't know what I'm talking about... then probably it's an easy fix22:31
rm_workgood call22:31
rm_workthough if he uses reverse psycology on you, he'll play dumb ^_^22:31
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NIN101Can anyone say something in regards to the compromised comodo SSL certificates in microb? Are they marked as "untrusted" now? Or are we doomed to trust OSCP servers on the N900? Just can't check this issue myself for a time, so if anyone cares...22:57
MohammadAGmicroB shows the same security exception as in firefox22:59
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ShadowJKIn general, no settings or software or certificates have changed since october 2010 on N90022:59
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NIN101:-). And also gecko vulnerabilities since this time could be possibly exploited, as nobody updates microb, right?23:04
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ShadowJKNIN101, right23:17
GNUtoohi, I'd like to kexec a maemo kenrel, but I don't really like the overclocking of kernel-power23:17
GNUtoodoes the kernel-power overclocks by default?23:17
SpeedEvilkernel-power does not do overclocking unless you set it up23:17
GNUtoothanks a lot23:17
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jacktheripperhas anyone tried compiling GTK3 on maemo ?23:18
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MoonTigerhi guys23:26
MoonTigeris there a libgrss package available?23:27
NIN101well we could probably stem the problems if they grow bigger in the future a bit with SElinux (should be available and working, though don't like it), ACLs etc. We also could run the applications in question as seperate users (but then we should remove the "sudo gainroot" etc. stuff :-)) and then hope for the best. Also there some issues with package signing IIRC, but anyway.23:29
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SpeedEvil hehe23:32
RST38hMoo all23:34
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