IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-05-08

Venemoyeah, I agree - all the more reason to use something that already exists instead of reinventing the wheel again.00:00
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: SHR is so far down the street of no return, that I'm trying to save cssu from, they don't care about usability, for sure not about "looking good", they have their devel playground to bring another "better component replacing XYZ"00:00
Venemosounds like the complete opposite of meego00:02
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DocScrutinizerbefore they even start to think about 'looking good' they need a new platform as the old one got obsolete00:02
VenemoDocScrutinizer, so, what is it that's got obsolete?00:03
DocScrutinizerthat's why SHR not seen any testing not to mention stable release since ~2 years, afaik00:03
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: May 05 17:14:23 <mickeyl>   in
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DocScrutinizeralso grep 20110507 for antric, mickeyl and DocScrutinizer00:13
DocScrutinizerantrik actually00:13
VenemoMay 05 16:01:42 <antrik> DocScrutinizer: well, if you are willing to do whatever it takes to get it upstream, then *you* should be the one who starts the discussion on LKML...00:13
DocScrutinizerso what, read my answer as well00:14
VenemoI'm reading00:14
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Venemoyeah DocScrutinizer, Linux world is full of stupid politics00:16
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Venemobut the end comment sounds promising00:18
VenemoMay 05 17:28:17 <mickeyl> yo, surely interesting. right now i think they're more pressuring issues, but once we have the connectivity issues sorted out, i'm sure there'll be movements towards that00:18
DocScrutinizerwon't happen - there'll be other more pressing affairs by then00:18
Venemowell, I am not a kernel hacker either00:19
DocScrutinizerdevels' playground, you know. No testing, no stable ever00:19
Venemobut I don't get what's the point in that00:19
DocScrutinizer"let's port the shit to LG now, as N900 is not sold anymore..."00:20
nox-that reminds me of...
DocScrutinizer[9 months later] "\o/ we got modem to connect to GPRS"00:20
Venemowhy is it that all these ports of various projects suck so miserable?00:21
DocScrutinizerbecuase devels take no pride in *finalizing* things00:21
nox-lack of manpower?00:21
SpeedEvilVenemo: Funding.00:21
Venemoand why is the phone modem always the barrier?00:21
ShadowJKMaybe it's actually hard and maybe it takes actual effort? :-)00:21
SpeedEvilVenemo: Maemo probably had well over a thousand paid devs involved.00:22
SpeedEvilVenemo: Lack of documents.00:22
Venemonor meego, nor nitdroid, nor SHR, neither of them manages to actually make a phone call.00:22
SpeedEvilThe many-eyes fallacy.00:22
Venemolack of docs may be a good excuse for Nitdroid or SHR, but not for MeeGo00:22
SpeedEvilThe many eyes hypothesis is that with enough eyes, all bugs are shallow.00:22
SpeedEvilThe problem is that this is only true for 'pure' code.00:22
Venemo"many-eyes" requires "many eyes" who _care_00:22
SpeedEvilOnce you start to get into hardware - the number of devs who would have a clue plummets.00:23
SpeedEvilSo have a clue * care = ~000:23
SpeedEvilAnd progress stalls.00:23
VenemoI see.00:23
ShadowJKMeego makes phonecalls now :-)00:23
VenemoShadowJK, nope, it doesn't00:23
Venemonot for me anyway00:23
DocScrutinizerSHR also does afaik, just sound is missing00:23
Venemophone call without sound is not phone call by definition.00:24
ShadowJKThe phone calls part actually requires some code writing :-)00:24
DocScrutinizermaybe that changed though, during last 12h00:24
Venemoalso, MeeGo can't connect to wifi either, and the handset ux sucks00:24
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Venemothey have made a _VERY_ good job on its performance however00:24
ShadowJKI think the idea of upstreaming everything came from the frustration of all the hw having custom drivers that break with every new release of everything else00:25
Venemoand that's a good point00:25
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (progress stalls) and when somebody with a clue * interest points them to a flaw, to better code, to the problems involved for battery life etc, then it's "duh, we are no kernel hackers, so we gonna use what's upstream"00:25
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ShadowJKBut then you also need people with the passion, attention to detail, motivation, and most of all, time, to write code that gets accepted upstream00:26
SpeedEvilAnd sometimes upstream appear to be ass-hats.00:27
VenemoDocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software is much better destined to succeed than those that target phones. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing)00:27
SpeedEvilIt's really not that.00:27
SpeedEvilWell - not that alone.00:27
VenemoDocScrutinizer, at this point, I think some piece of OSS software which targets _Tablets_ is much better destined to succeed than those that target _phones_. simply because they don't have to hack around the cell modem. (seems that the cell modem is always the most evil thing)00:27
ShadowJKAnd these things are more complicated than you think. For example, I am more than able myself of writing code to control the battery gauge and battery charger hardware of the N900, but I would have no friggin clue about how to get it integrated and working together with the Linux kernel, let alone working together with any operating system ontop of the kernel00:27
DocScrutinizereven worse, you need somebody to "defend the new code, maintain it, and you will have a hard time to explain why the existing driver can't get fixed and API has to change"00:28
SpeedEvilA cellphone is a _fucking_huge_ codebase.00:28
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Venemosorry I typo'd the first one.00:28
SpeedEvilIf you want it to do more than send and recieve texts, and make calls.00:28
SpeedEvilEven then, with the n900, that's a major task.00:28
SpeedEvilEspecially if you want to track upstream.00:29
ShadowJKIt doesn't help that 3g specifications includes reinventing all of Internet up until 2001 or so.00:29
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ShadowJKin a new incompatible-with-the-real-internet way :)00:29
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Venemobut why doesn't anyone actually send that fucking modem driver upstream? why didn't nokia for one do so?00:30
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: lol, yeah00:31
SpeedEvilMuch of the nokia code is not upstreamable in its present state.00:31
VenemoI also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem make a driver for it00:31
VenemoI really need to take a break00:31
SpeedEvilFor example - component_version in /proc00:31
VenemoI also don't understand why the actual manufacturers of the modem _don't_ make a driver for it00:31
SpeedEvilWhy is it not in cpuinfo00:31
SpeedEvilVenemo: not in the contract.00:32
ShadowJKIn this case Nokia is the manufacturer. There's a driver in ofono, that uses phonet in kernel. I've seen phonet patches on linux kernel mailing list.00:32
VenemoI thought phonet is some closed source shit00:32
DocScrutinizerVenemo: the maemo modem driver is closed source, the meego ofono one is still beta, and there are several quirks in RAPUYAMA that are not like what open cellphone specs (or what they're caled) require00:32
Venemowhat's RAPUYAMA?00:32
ShadowJKThe modem in N900 actually consists of a powerful ARM processor too, running its own firmware, with its own SDRAM. On its own it could actually run a low-end cellphone too :-)00:33
DocScrutinizerthe N900 (et all) BB5 modem00:33
DocScrutinizerRAPUYAMA = baseband, GAZOO = PMU00:33
VenemoShadowJK, so the N900 in fact has two processors?00:33
ShadowJKIt depends on how you count processors00:33
DocScrutinizeryes, it actually has some dozen00:33
Venemookay, if I count in the DSP and the others, then yeah00:34
DocScrutinizerLP5523 LED controler engines are almost a cpu00:34
Venemobut ShadowJK said that the modem has its own ARM CPU... not sure why it needs that though :D00:34
ShadowJKBut Symbian handsets used to say "Dual CPU" in their specs. Then Symbian gained hard-realtime capability, after which they could run Symbian and Modem on the same CPU (on N900 it's one CPU for Modem and one CPU for operating system) :-)00:34
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ShadowJKIt was a big costs-saving advantage for Nokia at one point :P00:35
DocScrutinizerVenemo: It needs that for managing the GSM OTA protocol00:35
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, is that protocol so hard that it needs its own CPU?00:35
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DocScrutinizeresp if yu want the user to have full access to "the other" CPU00:35
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Venemowell then no wonder that the cell modem uses up so much power00:36
DocScrutinizerit actually doesn't00:36
DocScrutinizerstandby is like 4mA00:36
DocScrutinizerwhich is pretty decent00:36
Venemowell the device's battery lasts considerably longer in offline mode00:36
ShadowJKYou know, when 3g specs were finalized, the fastest PC processor at the time was too weak to process all the protocols and algorithms required to implement 3g :-)00:36
VenemoI didn't know that00:36
* SpeedEvil checks on
povbotBug 11091: Bug in cpufreq module - exposed in /proc/timer_stats00:37
* SpeedEvil sighs.00:37
DocScrutinizersure Venemo - that's because TX is blasting with up to 0.5W00:37
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ShadowJKMostly power drain happens because of CDMA, your phone has to "join" other phones transmitting. Like a choir singing a chorus. Every phone has to regulate their transmission power accurately and precisely, so that no single one becomes too powerful, and so that the base station can still tell them apart. Once your phone is singing in the choir, it can't exit for a few seconds or so.00:38
ShadowJKSo, every single packet of data transmitted makes your phone transmit for like 5 seconds.00:39
DocScrutinizerVenemo: make sure your GPRS packet radio AP setup is empty, so no way any data gets transfered either way, and watch N900 standby like 250h on GSM00:39
ShadowJKWhich is roughly equivalent to 5 seconds of talk time.00:39
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ShadowJKIf you're transfering data at high speed, the power drain is 2 - 4X that of "talk time" power consumption00:40
VenemoDocScrutinizer, yeah, GSM (even EDGE) also lasts considerably longer than 3G/HSDPA00:40
DocScrutinizerVenemo: see ShadowJK 's nice explanation above. 3G == WCDMA00:40
ShadowJKGSM/EDGE is TDMA. Instead of everyone transmitting at the same time, they all get a small timeslot during which they must attempt to transmit their data. After that, another device gets the chance to transmit.00:41
Venemothanks for explaining ShadowJK :)00:41
DocScrutinizerwhich makes for the 200Hz humm on 2G00:41
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ShadowJKThere's lots of extra overhead because EDGE is a kludge ontop of a kludge ontop of a kludge, etc... so it's actually pretty inefficient overall.. But, for always-on stuff like IRC and instant messengers, it's alot better than 3g00:42
DocScrutinizerwas it 200?00:42
ShadowJKDunno :-)00:42
ShadowJKThe tip-tap-tip-tap in speakers is from the low-rate command channel I think... and then there's the hum at.. yeah, 200-400hz somewhere?00:42
DocScrutinizergoogle for GSM timeslice - or slots00:43
DocScrutinizerthink it was 20000:43
ShadowJKI think the chinese are on the right track with their TCDMA based 3g/4g solution. I know they just did it to be different and reduce patent licensing expenses, but hey00:43
ShadowJKoh wait00:43
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ShadowJKI don't know how TCDMA works :)00:44
DocScrutinizerbtw that's also where that nice Timing Advance value comes from - that tells you aout your distance to BTS on a 550m accuracy00:44
ShadowJKYeah :)00:44
GAN900Ah, electronics.00:45
ShadowJKThen we have wifi. Wifi is unique, its spectrum management facility is best described as "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!"00:45
DocScrutinizerGAN900: that's definitely no electronics00:45
VenemoShadowJK, what do you mean by "FUCK ME, FUCK YOU!"?00:46
ShadowJKEvery station shouts, and the one that shouts first or loudest gets to speak, and then shouts until it gets its message across, however long that might take, blocking everyone else.00:46
GAN900DocScrutinizer, close enough for 5:46 on a Saturday. :P00:46
DocScrutinizerGAN900: that's what sw devels think about as "duh electronics, doesn't matter"00:46
VenemoGAN900, what 5:46? where are you? :O00:46
GAN900ShadowJK, makes the hardware rather cheap though, no?00:46
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DocScrutinizerin fact that's basics about how stuff works, and most of it is sw related00:47
GAN900Venemo, in the land of 12-hour time.00:47
VenemoGAN900, it's 23:47 here00:47
DocScrutinizergood (UGT) morning everybody then00:47
GAN90017:47 here, but I was saving digits.00:47
ShadowJKGAN900, no not really. It's actually just someone who copy&pasted bits of the ethernet spec, and then someone had to implement it in hardware.00:48
ShadowJKon wireless, which behaves entirely different to wired.00:48
VenemoGAN900, ah. I thought you meant 5:46 AM :P00:48
VenemoShadowJK, btw, are you an EE too?00:49
ShadowJKCompare to like wimax, which allocates a fixed-length of transmission time (TX and RX) to every station, during which they'll push through as much data as possible. This ensures everyone gets a fair share of spectral bandwidth :-)00:49
ShadowJKVenemo, no00:49
VenemoShadowJK, you sure do know a lot about this stuff00:50
DocScrutinizerVenemo: He's knowledgeable enough to count as junior EE to me00:50
ShadowJKAt this point I'm at best some sort of ad-hoc hybrid of unqualified ME and AE :)00:50
GAN900ShadowJK, ah, interesting.00:51
VenemoI'm having my first year in uni, studying EE00:51
* Sicelo_ is still reading that Torvalds link. good reading imo00:52
VenemoSicelo_, what Torvalds link?00:53
DocScrutinizereeew, knew it - FRENCH00:53
DocScrutinizerouch, that headache....00:54
SpeedEvilIt's not actually a revealing interrview IMO00:54
DocScrutinizerwtf, you all read that?00:54
Sicelo_the one DocScrutinizer gave:
Sicelo_yay :P00:55
DocScrutinizermeh, that's a chanlog00:55
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VenemoSicelo_, how is that a "Torvalds link"?00:55
DocScrutinizeryeah .oO(???)00:55
DocScrutinizerI'm not Linus ;-P00:55
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Sicelo_maybe wrong wording Venemo :-S00:56
DocScrutinizerI guess he did a ECNP00:56
DocScrutinizerc&p ERROR00:56
Sicelo_i'm reading it via lynx, and it looks like an interview to me ;)00:57
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 23:20:45] <nox-> that reminds me of...
DocScrutinizerSicelo_: please quote like 8 words of it00:58
Sicelo_that's the one i meant00:58
VenemoDocScrutinizer, it gives me an error00:58
DocScrutinizerVenemo: forget it, it's friggin froggy french00:58
nox-well there is the original en interview in it too00:58
nox-thats what the #comment tag is00:59
* nox- doesnt speak fr either :)00:59
Sicelo_my bad00:59
SpeedEvil - it's in english01:03
SpeedEvilSo the first and the very negative answer is that I absolutely despise the people who try to push the GPL as being about "ethics".01:03
SpeedEvilI think that's absolute bullshit. Why? Because ethics are to me something private. Whenever you use it as an argument for why somebody_else should do something, you're no longer being ethical, you're just being a sanctimonious dick-head.01:03
Sicelo_that's the one i'm reading01:03
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ruskieguess he has a skewed reality field01:03
Sicelo_i'm here now: LinuxFR : Various people criticized kernel security. Do you think..01:04
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Sicelo_wow.. him comments on openbsd :D01:06
ruskiewasn't that the wanking monkeys one?01:07
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Sicelo_Linus Torvalds : I think that any single-purpose OS project is a failure, and it doesn't matter what the purpose is. Security on its own is not a worthy goal - you need to have users for security to even matter in the first place.01:07
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ruskiewell the point is they have users01:13
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Sicelo_true that01:14
ruskiebut frankly all these charismatic leaders tend to be full of bull anyway ;)01:14
Sicelo_u mean linus?01:15
ruskieamong them yeah01:15
GAN900ruskie, seems so, doesn't it?01:16
GAN900Besides, Linus is an Android supporter. The bastard.01:16
Corsacwell, at least android has users01:16
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Sicelo_yeah.. i noticed his android comments too01:16
GAN900At what cost, though.01:16
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GAN900I think Android has probably stolen a whole generation of open source programmers and enthusiasts.01:18
Venemoandroid is horseshit01:18
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GAN900It's a con job01:20
* ruskie wants to bash head into wall until brain splatters...01:20
GAN900Sounds like fun.01:20
GAN900Or maybe sounds like me trying to get Natty to behave.01:21
ruskiebosses for some insane reason seem to want to developed mobile apps...01:21
ruskieor even do cloud services01:21
merlin1991~seen khertan01:21
infobotkhertan <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 4d 5h 31m 7s ago, saying: 'i didn't think :)'.01:21
Sicelo_i gotta sleep now01:21
* Sicelo_ only wishes he could do something for maemo community01:22
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VenemoGAN900, Natty?01:37
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MohammadAGVenemo, Ubuntu 11.0401:42
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VenemoMohammadAG, aah. you could just say bugbuntu n+101:45
GAN900Yes, that.01:45
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: await a lesson later on01:51
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DocScrutinizeron a last remark: couldn't agree more with Linus01:52
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DocScrutinizerjust he completely ignores most of andidiot folks are dickheads who don't care about anything except their own little thing01:53
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DocScrutinizerseeing where android came from, that's quite natural01:55
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lolcatDocScrutinizer: Linus said something about android?01:58
Venemololcat, yep01:59
VenemoI'm gonna sleep now01:59
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lolcatVenemo: Link?02:00
lolcatVenemo: Are you Torvald Linus?02:00
Venemololcat, scrollback.... voilá:
Venemololcat, it's an inteview with Linux.02:01
Venemololcat, it's an inteview with Linus02:01
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lolcatVenemo: Cool02:18
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MohammadAGwe need a vbulliten app02:21
lolcatWe need a wheater app that shows images of raindrops and a windshield wiper when it is raining02:22
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Sc0rpiusdoes anybody knows how to turn stderr in the console in the N900?02:42
Sc0rpiusbecause it is totally ignored02:42
Sc0rpiusif I run the same program in scratchbox I can see all the stderr output02:43
Sc0rpiusbut none in the device02:43
ShadowJKand you're starting them from a terminal in both cases?02:44
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ShadowJKWell that's very strange then, because when you start it from a working terminal, the stdout and stderr gets connected to the terminal02:45
MohammadAGis there a way to debug an app launched with dbus?02:45
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Sc0rpiusand a echo thing >/dev/stderr works02:46
Sc0rpiusmaybe it's not stderr what I'm looking for02:46
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Sc0rpius[13534]: GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - SaveToDraftsMenu: missing action ActionsSaveToDrafts02:46
MohammadAGmy app crashes when launched with DBus, but not when launched from terminal02:46
Sc0rpiusI want those kind of lines to show in the device02:47
ShadowJKI've seen those when I've launched stuff from xterm02:47
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ShadowJKI don't think that goes to syslog :-)02:47
DocScrutinizer/dev/stderr is quite probably sth different than fileahndle 2 of a process02:48
ShadowJKMohammadAG, if it's your own app, then at the starting of the app I'd just reassign stdout/stderr to a file somewhere if such output is what you're after02:48
DocScrutinizerecho this-goes-to-stderr 2>&1 is02:49
MohammadAGShadowJK, nah, the app is closed for some reason02:49
ShadowJKThere's also easy methods for sending stuff to syslog, not that I rememver what hte functions are called02:49
MohammadAGso I want to debug segfaults02:49
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MohammadAGisn't there a way to prevent the app from closing on segfault?02:50
nox-attach a gdb?02:50
nox-or enable coredumps if that works on n90002:50
MohammadAGnox-, doesn't that prevent the app from doing what it normally does?02:51
nox-well you'd hit c for continue02:51
nox-and maybe tell gdb to pass one or the other signal thru02:51
ShadowJKIf it receives alot of signals normally, you'd tell gdb to ignore those02:51
Sc0rpiusMohammadAG is right, those go to /var/log/messages with syslog02:51
nox-if coredumps work you can also look at those with gdb after a crash02:52
* nox- just never tried that on the device :)02:53
MohammadAGthey work, I just don't know how to enable them :p02:53
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nox-ulimit -c unlimited?02:53
nox-or is there more to it?02:53
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MohammadAGProgram terminated with signal SIGKILL, Killed.02:54
MohammadAGThe program no longer exists.02:54
MohammadAGSIGKILL isn't a segfault02:54
MohammadAGwhy the fuck is it getting killed02:55
nox-might just be oom02:55
DocScrutinizerooops, of course 1>&202:55
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ShadowJKThere's that thing with Maemo, iirc, where you have to reply to something or other to let it know you're alive, or else it kills you02:55
nox-out of memory02:55
nox-(resp swap)02:55
ShadowJKOOM would be in dmesg02:55
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MohammadAGnothing about that02:56
MohammadAGand wtf is it with the [42388.512329] wl1251: ERROR Power save entry failed, giving up errors02:56
DocScrutinizerthere's been that funny stuff that killed apps like 60s after starting them02:56
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, this is it02:56
DocScrutinizerwas sth very star02:56
nox-killing it with the big hammer?02:57
MohammadAGI hope this isn't the hildon-desktop hibernate feature02:57
nox-sigkill isnt very nice :P02:57
ShadowJKare you getting killed 60s after start?02:57
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: yeah, seems so02:57
MohammadAGShadowJK, yeah02:58
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: what was that?02:58
ShadowJKthe wl1251 error indicates weak signal or access point with uncooperative power saving features02:58
MohammadAGI didn't time it but02:58
* MohammadAG tarts apt02:58
MohammadAGstarts app* even02:58
DocScrutinizera lot of apps had that eventually02:58
DocScrutinizerwas a weird little bit02:59
ShadowJKIf I remember correctly, there is thing that specifically requires a response (or a message) within X seconds of getting started, or else hildon or libosso or whatever kills it02:59
ShadowJKBut I don't remember the details02:59
DocScrutinizerlike stdout not assigned or whatever02:59
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ShadowJKIIRC, in the N8x0 days it was even on a developer FAQ somewhere.02:59
MohammadAGso it's two minutes actually03:00
DocScrutinizerregistering it with osso-service-name in .desktop to dbus though it's not a dbus aware app03:00
DocScrutinizeryeah, two minutes03:00
DocScrutinizerdbus timeout03:00
ShadowJKIf he's starting it via dbus maybe it implies it should be dbus aware03:00
MohammadAGI've had apps not dbus aware started via DBus03:01
DocScrutinizermaybe then it should also register with dbus03:01
MohammadAGand they never had this03:01
DocScrutinizerno idea really, just handwaving03:01
DocScrutinizerI know it was a nasty little detail03:01
MohammadAGI think it's a line in the .desktop file03:02
DocScrutinizerme too03:02
MohammadAGwe'll know in 10s03:02
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DocScrutinizerthat's the dbus thing I meant03:02
DocScrutinizernah, in 10?03:03
DocScrutinizerrather in 13003:03
MohammadAGnope, killed :/03:03
nox-stupid q: what does osso stand for anyway :)03:03
DocScrutinizeropen source software Oslo03:04
ShadowJKopen source software operations03:04
DocScrutinizersth about Nokia's FOSS software anyway03:04
MohammadAGOpen Source (ha) Software Operations03:05
DocScrutinizerincredible nobody here knows what's that kill-after-120s issue been03:05
MohammadAGwell, psfreedom doesn't get killed03:08
DocScrutinizerohI think if you start an app via dbus, it has to register to dbus under same name, or sth like that03:08
MohammadAGand it's pretty much the same (no DBus awareness etc)03:08
MohammadAGand it uses 13MBs of RAM03:09
MohammadAGI  have to say, for two buttons, that's quite a lot03:09
* MohammadAG criticizes past coding skills03:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: try to make sure your stdin and stdout and stderr are closed or redirected to /dev/null03:09
DocScrutinizermaybe that's the trick03:10
MohammadAGboth apps use qDebug()03:10
MohammadAGnah, that's not it03:10
DocScrutinizeryou *googled* ?03:10
SpeedEvil amused03:11
MohammadAGyes I have DocScrutinizer03:12
lolcatSpeedEvil: What is fun about that?03:12
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SpeedEvillolcat: Note the aquatic flightless bird.03:13
SpeedEvil 1930mAh bl5j!03:13
* SpeedEvil suspects not.03:14
lolcatThere where a thread about a better N900 battery, not the bigger one, but one that had more capacity than it should03:14
SpeedEvilhmm - I can't pick iup the qrcode on that one03:17
SpeedEvilIs it a real qrcode?03:17
SpeedEvil Is this a barred phone?03:19
* SpeedEvil should probably stop linkspamming.03:20
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arvuthow do I check the cpu temp in xterm?03:26
arvutof my n900 ofcourse03:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: at least I now recall Fahrplan had the same problem03:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so maybe in tmo fahrplan thread you find the answer03:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, making a wrapper script and starting it with is a workaround03:36
SpeedEvilarvut: there is no reliably working temperature sensor on the CPU03:37
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: *quit fix  - whatever that means03:38
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nox-osso_context_t *osso_ctx = osso_initialize (PACKAGE, VERSION, FALSE, NULL);03:39
nox-in one of the postings03:40
DocScrutinizeron fahrplan?03:40
MohammadAGI don't want osso at all in my app03:43
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DocScrutinizerwell, starting via dbus IS an osso thing03:44
DocScrutinizerI guess03:45
DocScrutinizerby your wraper script, you get the "osso" in the shell/xterm I'd assume, so the function that waits for some magic on dbus after starting the app gets satisfied by that03:47
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MohammadAGhmm, true03:48
prontommmm cookies03:48
MohammadAGI'm just a bit surprised I didn't notice this till now03:48
DocScrutinizerquite obviously that's the hardcoded timeout of dbus anyway03:48
pronto:( i dont think im allowed in this channel anymore D:03:48
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pronto(i got a new phone today, thats not an n900)03:49
MohammadAGKICK HIM!03:49
MohammadAGoh wait, torture him first03:49
DocScrutinizernot yet, but soon03:49
prontoi still has my n90003:49
prontoi jsut wanted to unlock my phone with my finger print o_o03:49
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MohammadAGbiometric locks are overrated, had them in my Pocket PC03:50
prontoyeah atrix03:50
prontoit was $150 today03:50
MohammadAGI heard the voice quality's crappy (not trolling)03:50
MohammadAGholy shit that's cheap03:50
prontoMohammadAG: it cant be wrose the then n90003:51
prontoand i tested it for about two hours today seemed good enough03:51
MohammadAGnah, the N900's voice quality is superb imo03:51
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DocScrutinizervoice quality is last thing to argue about on N90003:52
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DocScrutinizeris as good as it gets03:53
MohammadAGyeah, the best two phones I've talked on are the N900 and the iPhone 4 (given it has a case on it)03:54
DocScrutinizereven speakerphone is excellent03:54
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DocScrutinizerthough a lil bit more sensitivity on mic would be nice03:55
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DocScrutinizerpronto: if you had poor voice audio on N900, you should ask for a replacement03:58
DocScrutinizerprobably sth is broken03:58
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DocScrutinizeryay, what a statement05:00
DocScrutinizersonyericsson going to teach us how to do it right?05:01
DocScrutinizerI'm somehow reluctant to click this link, dunno why, may sth to do with my adrenaline or my heartburn05:01
psycho_oreossomehow I could think of it as how to install their custom linux that is laden with DRM loving softwares05:02
DocScrutinizernone the better05:03
psycho_oreosa clean linux that doesn't have any of the sony's backdoored or otherwise scms patented crap would be a hell lot better05:04
DocScrutinizermakes me yawn, still not even going to click on that URL05:04
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DocScrutinizerhay, maybe they tell us how to avoid security vulnerabilities in linux servers ;-P05:05
DocScrutinizerso you don't watch somebody downloading 110mio of your customer data records05:06
psycho_oreosand get sued by the millions :)05:06
DocScrutinizerhrhrhr >:-)05:06
DocScrutinizerit's not been a trick, it's just sony05:07
psycho_oreosand then find some lame excuse to blame on.. oh noez! anonymous was ere!05:07
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DocScrutinizerwait, is Sony = Japan as well?05:08
DocScrutinizerseems there's a culture of publishing negative facts late and partially05:09
psycho_oreosSony's headquarters is in Japan yes05:09
DocScrutinizerthen bow down deep and beg for pardon05:09
psycho_oreosthere's lots of hatred on sony and they should continue hating imo :D. They (sony) screwed people around the world several times05:10
DocScrutinizerbut actually do nothing05:10
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, point is, if sony's giving people an unlocked bootloader that's a huge step forwards05:10
psycho_oreosthe question will be: for how long will they momentarily play nice? like how they treated ps3 linux owners with otherOS?05:14
MohammadAGtill geohot the II shows up :P05:14
psycho_oreosI'll be honest here, I really don't see geohot being the culprit, he just likes attention and if sony has a flaw in their system, they should cop it and fix it rather than disabling the whole damn thing thereby pissing their linux community off. On top of that making ostracising comments like,"If you want to keep your OtherOS and don't want to play online with PSN, you don't have to upgrade."05:17
DocScrutinizerI won't give a single thought about Sony05:18
psycho_oreosI wished they rot in hell05:18
DocScrutinizerI'm simply not interested in either Sony hw details nor any Sony sw. I got several Sony devices and always found they are of rather questionable quality hw wise, nifty but flimsy or buggy same time05:20
DocScrutinizerthere's even been a time where you got service manuals for free from Sony05:21
DocScrutinizerbut they didn't help too much as their hw was unserviceable05:21
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DocScrutinizerthe cutest thing ever been their scoopman05:23
DocScrutinizerI never dared to open it, after studying the service manual. seems they used one flexible PCB and folded it to 7 layers, in a device hardly half the size of a pack of cigarettes05:24
Sazpaimonyou guys dont realize how dissapointed I am that I can't play VVVVVV at full speed on my N90005:26
Sazpaimonits a travesty05:26
DocScrutinizeronly scoopman NT-2 there, way larger than my NT-105:28
DocScrutinizeralso what a shit on wikipedia, ""stored memos"" WUT? in stereo-hifi? NT-1 not even had a built-in mic05:30
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Sazpaimonive probably played it about a hundred times since i got it last year05:31
Sazpaimontoo bad it completely chokes on my phone due to lack of hwaccel in flash05:32
Sazpaimonthanks adobe!05:32
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Sazpaimonits definately a great game though05:33
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psycho_oreosSazpaimon, "A Linux version was in development, but eventually cancelled due to technical difficulties." - LOL05:34
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Sazpaimonyeah because its annoying to pack a flash file into a linux executable05:34
Sazpaimontrust me I've tried05:34
psycho_oreosits so adobe for you05:34
DocScrutinizerflash IS annoying05:35
Sazpaimonits not worth the effort and youre better off running the exe in wine05:35
psycho_oreosemulated wine inside qemu05:35
Sazpaimonthat said, I have an swf version of the game05:35
Sazpaimoni extracted the swf from the exe and decompiled it, and removed any security stuff that prevented it from running05:35
DocScrutinizerwhat a friggin weird shit05:36
Sazpaimonit runs perfectly fine on my desktop browser, but my n900 plays it at like half speed05:36
DocScrutinizerobviously done by fools who had more an idea of how to PLAY a agme than how to CODE it05:36
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SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, the AS is pretty solid05:37
DocScrutinizerflash packed into an exe, cmon05:37
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, its very commonplace actually05:37
Sazpaimonlots of developers pack an swf into an embedded flash player05:37
DocScrutinizeryeah fools and noobs are pretty common, agreed05:37
Sazpaimonflash CS3 and up i believe have that feature included05:37
Sazpaimonbecause believe it or not, not everyone has a standalone flash player installe05:38
Sazpaimonnor do they want to do so to play a game05:38
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DocScrutinizerindeed I don't even want to play any flash based game05:38
DocScrutinizerunless it's maybe some simple shit embedded in a webpage05:39
Sazpaimonso its not unheard of or even bad practice to publish a flash game with an embedded flash player as an exe05:39
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Sazpaimonso it "just works"05:39
psycho_oreos /* the joys of 5th generation programming language is ever more friendly with humans to the point of which people just bury their heads in and forget about its predecessors and how much more friendlier it would have been to the machine rather than to humans.*/05:39
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DocScrutinizeras I said above, fools and noobs...05:39
Sazpaimoni think adobe officially calls it a projector05:40
Sazpaimonyeah thats what they call it05:40
DocScrutinizerI don't give a flying fart what Adobe calls it05:40
DocScrutinizeradobe reached the point where they're on par with M$ on my hate-list05:41
Sazpaimoni detect some mad here05:42
Sazpaimonare you.. mad05:42
DocScrutinizerI suggest you publish your games as .xls (win7 format) rather than flash05:43
DocScrutinizerway less proprietary05:43
Sazpaimonyes, definately some mad going around here05:44
Sazpaimondon't worry, doc, I'm here for you05:44
Sazpaimoncome here, I'll hold you05:44
Sazpaimonthere there, its okay05:44
Sazpaimonthe adobe monsters can't hurt you anymore05:44
* DocScrutinizer heads out to find a hooker to beat him with a whip written adobe on it05:45
DocScrutinizerall hail to apple for banning flash from their phones05:47
GeneralAntillesOk, how do I unload the Intel GPU driver to see if it's the source of resume problems?05:48
DocScrutinizerunload like in? modprobe -r ?05:48
GeneralAntillesYeah, that.05:48
* GeneralAntilles has lost all brain capacity tonight pounding his head against multiple technical barriers.05:49
DocScrutinizerwell, lsmod and pick your fav05:49
* GeneralAntilles just wants a working laptop.05:49
DocScrutinizerI doubt the system will like that though05:49
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DocScrutinizerooh, buntkuh?05:50
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GeneralAntillesGood, inflicting suffering on Ubuntu? Yes.05:50
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DocScrutinizerthere's some advice about how to unload drivers prior to suspend and load it after resume05:51
DocScrutinizerthere are means for that, to deal with drivers not behaving05:52
DocScrutinizeryou don't want to do that manually05:52
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xd13can i remove the ovi and system updates repos ? because i realized today the other nokia repo is quite important for deps06:28
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paulyhi anyone want to buy a n900 with broken usb port?06:48
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doc|homehow would a person charge it in that case? o.O07:11
DocScrutinizerhow much?07:12
doc|homehe left07:13
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lsolanoHi. After installing any app on my n900, app icon is not show, until reboot. Is there any other way to see the icon without rebooting?08:45
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etorix_hi shitheads!09:53
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etorix_your dumb ass brain is full of shit!09:56
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kerioetorix_: that's mean :(10:31
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lbtX-Fade: ping ... pmo down ?11:05
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etorix_who owns the federal reserve, doc|home ?11:36
etorix_you CUNT11:36
etorix_you COCK SUCKER11:36
etorix_you BITCH11:37
etorix_suckers of satan's cock deserve no better11:37
etorix_that means you kerio11:37
etorix_sperm slurper11:37
etorix_you are a fucking idiot11:37
etorix_doc|home's throat is too full of satan's sperm to type anything11:37
etorix_jizm gobbler11:37
etorix_lol at fuckheads11:37
etorix_how the fuck are we going to kill these shits at nokia11:37
etorix_especially this elop demon11:37
etorix_there are a lot of good poisons11:37
etorix_that motherfucker needs to go DOWN11:37
etorix_like BIN LADEN11:37
etorix_and doc|home11:37
etorix_hows the sperm slurping going for you doc|home11:37
etorix_gobble gobble gobble11:37
etorix_smack smack11:37
etorix_dribble dribble11:37
etorix_doc|home, lapping up satan's cum11:37
kerio2/10 for the effort11:37
etorix_like a cunt11:37
etorix_a fucking cunt11:37
etorix_hi shit11:38
etorix_doc|home sucks jew cock11:38
etorix_doc|home: is a CUNT11:38
etorix_'fuck me, i'm yours'11:38
etorix_satanic baby eaters11:38
etorix_that's who this motherFUCKER serves11:38
etorix_and several of them are involved11:38
kerioDocScrutinizer: *poke*11:38
etorix_in open source projects11:38
etorix_so you need to learn who is who11:38
etorix_do you understand shitheads11:38
etorix_evil people have a motive to infect open source11:38
etorix_you dumb idiots11:38
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HRH_H_Crabhello all11:39
HRH_H_Crabi wonder if someone can give me some guidance,11:39
HRH_H_Crabmy phone tells me that it wants to upgrade "Linux kernel for power user (boot image)" but the upgrade fails because of the "3rd party package policy" or something like that.11:40
HRH_H_Crabim not sure whether i should be doing something to remove a block so that it can install, or whether i have to do something to stop it from trying to install that.11:40
robbiethe1sttry opening a terminal, typing 'sudo gainroot', then 'apt-get upgrade'  and tell me what it says?11:51
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HRH_H_Crabrobbiethe1st: yeah i found this thread:
HRH_H_Crabdid a manual install and it looks like its all behaving now.12:05
HRH_H_Crabthe package manager freaks me out sometimes12:07
HRH_H_Crabit can be a bit clunky.12:07
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HRH_H_Crabalso, i find it confusing to understand what some of these packages are sometimes. i suspect that i might not even need that one. i experimented a bit with dual booting maemo / android but i didnt think much of android.12:08
robbiethe1stHRH_H_Crab: I always use the command-line tool; can't stand the slow gui one12:08
robbiethe1stYou can always google the name of a package; it'll let you know12:08
robbiethe1stpower-kernel's the "custom kernel" various people have come up with; it's always a good thing even if you don't want to OC12:09
HRH_H_Crabi use it for stuff like ipv612:09
HRH_H_Crabbut im not sure what the "boot image" part is. i would think that would actually install the new kernel and sort out the bootloader and all but it doesnt reboot the phone or anything when it installs.12:10
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robbiethe1stHm... Well, the kernel's got it's own partition on the disk12:13
robbiethe1stcould be something to do with that12:13
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iPeter-I got some issues with my n90013:22
iPeter-i did remove everything from /13:23
iPeter-including /user/MyDocs13:23
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iPeter-i tried to reflash my n900 emmc and firmware, but when booting up i get "Missing image" and some square boxes. Help!13:24
SpeedEvilThat happens if you've got a screwed up emmc I think13:24
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iPeter-SpeedEvil: That happened already when mydocs etc did get removed..13:25
SpeedEvilWhat did you do?13:25
iPeter-Have tried flashing emmc 2 times and getting successfully flash..13:25
iPeter-mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /and13:26
iPeter-cd /and/13:26
iPeter-rm -rf *13:26
* SpeedEvil ponders13:27
SpeedEvilSorry - not awake enough13:27
iPeter-i was installing nitdroid to my device, triple checked that mmcblk is right but then i did do something wrong and then it werent righ.13:28
iPeter-SpeedEvil: Any ideas?13:28
* DocScrutinizer votes for banning nitdroid13:28
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DocScrutinizerif I haven't missed some, this been the 5 complaint about nitdroid killing N900 in 24h13:29
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Can you help me?13:30
DocScrutinizerreflash, first rootfs-COMBINED, then emmc-VANILLA13:30
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Is this correct: Rx-51 2009SE 20.2010.36-2 pr combined mr0 arm.bin13:32
DocScrutinizerlooks about right13:32
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DocScrutinizererr, sorry - first vanlla, then combined, is the more safe method13:33
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Tried that few times, still nothing.13:33
DocScrutinizeryou're missing the vanilla image13:33
iPeter-multiboot is coming etc, i select maemo, it boots up but has squares and no images13:33
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: I have flashed emmc vanilla and then firmware combined13:34
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DocScrutinizerhmm, then sth went wrong, otherwise you should be back to facotry state13:34
RST38hDoc: Is it just me, or are we really getting a flood of newbies with bricked devices lately?13:35
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: I do: flasher-3.5 -F emmc.bin -f when finished i do flasher-3.5 -F firmware.bin -f -R, correct?13:35
DocScrutinizernot unhappy about that13:36
DocScrutinizerlooks about right, iPeter-13:36
iPeter-RST38h: ?13:36
RST38ht this mean there might have been a rogue package bricking those devices?13:36
DocScrutinizernitdridiot always been rogue13:37
DocScrutinizeractually multiboot13:37
RST38hah, these are nitroid/multiboot victims...13:38
RST38hYea, you are right: "Go to first new post [How To] Nitdroid-Installer: install GingerBread N12 UMay" <== at the top of tmo topics13:38
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Its writing tow the emmc.bin and its done. Image(s) flashed successfully in 26.976 s13:39
DocScrutinizerI repeat, I suggest banning nitdroid13:39
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DocScrutinizerok, now flash rootfs13:40
DocScrutinizeraka fiasco / COMBINED13:40
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iPeter-DocScrutinizer: I did, it was almost instantly done13:44
DocScrutinizeryeah, is rather quick13:44
DocScrutinizerdunno, like 8s or sth13:44
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DocScrutinizer(been a while since... ;)13:45
DocScrutinizernext boot should take noticably longer than usual13:45
iPeter-this asks what to boot maemo or nitdroid13:46
iPeter-i select maemo13:46
iPeter-it rebooted and got alot squares13:46
iPeter-and 2 buttons with squares13:46
iPeter-with grey background13:47
DocScrutinizeryour flashing of rootfs went wrong13:47
iPeter-well i did as i said13:47
DocScrutinizertell iPeter- about flashing13:48
DocScrutinizer~tell iPeter- about flashing13:48
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iPeter-and no errors during flashing.. i have done it few times but this time seems to be little hard..13:48
iPeter-using laptop eee 901 and ubuntu 11.0413:48
Sicelo_hi evryne13:49
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: If i install openssh and make account for you etc, could you do it?13:49
DocScrutinizersorry, no13:53
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DocScrutinizeriPeter-: please look carefully at the part >>If you cannot establish a connection with N900, do following steps:<< in the wiki page13:53
infoboti guess flashing is
infobotSicelo_ meant: /s/everyone/everyone13:55
DocScrutinizeriPeter-: reading that passage also will tell you why I can't do that for you, even with a ssh account13:57
iPeter-DocScrutinizer: Now it did flash it, had to remove battery after emmc flash13:58
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DocScrutinizerSicelo_: you didn't know this infobot fun? :-D14:10
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Wissoanyone around?14:21
Wissois it possible to run the flasher on slitaz?14:22
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SpeedEvilon what?14:23
WissoSlitaz OS14:23
Wissobootable live unix operating system14:23
SpeedEvilIt should work like on any other linux14:24
SpeedEvilthe flasher doe s not require any more than just hte flasher itself.14:24
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Wissook got it running14:27
DocScrutinizerseems it's up to anybody's guess how many linux distros are around today^H this minute14:27
WissoDocScrutinizer it was the smallest unix os i could get to boot live14:28
Wisso30MB only14:28
DocScrutinizeraah, ok. That reduces the crop to sth like maybe 2014:28
Wissoi cannot install unix on my system14:29
DocScrutinizerDSL, knoppix...14:29
* DocScrutinizer changes wallpaper of fedora desktop to pink and call that shelux, new distro \o/ ;-D14:30
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DocScrutinizerno offense to you, Wisso14:30
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kerioknoppix is big14:31
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: that's the ubuntu way, change the desktop theme and call it a new distro14:31
DocScrutinizeryeah but nobody else got such a cute name for his distro ;-P14:31
* DocScrutinizer runs to (R) shelux trademark14:32
DocScrutinizer"only genuine with the pink theme"14:34
DocScrutinizerdon't mess this one with hanna barbera14:34
dm8tbrask Myrtti for some tips. she's got the whole pink linux thing figured out :)14:35
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DocScrutinizererrr hanna montana of course14:37
* DocScrutinizer wondes who's hanna barbera - prolly a p0rnstar somebody mentioned here14:39
DocScrutinizeraaah toons14:39
DocScrutinizerwilliam hanna, joseph barbera14:40
DocScrutinizernow you all know what I do in me off-time :-P14:41
WissoDocScrutinizer SpeedEvil: im getting an error "Unable to enumerate USB buses!" when running the flasher14:47
Wissowhat does that mean14:47
DocScrutinizererrr, sth is interferring the data transmission. Prolly a driver (modprobe -r *usb*), but may also be a USB hub, bad cable, poor hardware in PC...14:49
DocScrutinizerfor all I know14:49
Wissook ill check14:49
DocScrutinizersometimes dmesg/syslog helps a lot14:50
DocScrutinizeron linux :-D14:50
Wissoill join back from the unix station14:51
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tux_ok i ran modprobe -r *usb*14:53
tux_module *usb* not found14:54
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WiSsoDocScrutinizer u still there15:00
DocScrutinizersorry, this been a pattern15:00
WiSsowhat does that mean15:01
DocScrutinizerthe modules are cdc_ether, phonet, g_ether, dunno what else15:01
DocScrutinizeresp phonet is notorious15:02
DocScrutinizerofono as well, if there's such a module with ofono in its name15:02
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DocScrutinizerany module that *uses* some module realted to USB is suspicious15:04
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DocScrutinizerand especially those that get loaded when you plug in the N90015:04
DocScrutinizerthose are definitely rogue (in this context)15:05
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DocScrutinizersince a module usually stays loaded once it got loaded, you'd have to start over with a freshly booted system, lsmod, then plug in N900 for flashing, lsmod again, then compare which new modules15:06
DocScrutinizeralso 64bit linux is known to cause trouble frequently (but not always)15:07
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cehtehrofl   .. didnt i yesterday explicitly exclude sony from the list of my next phone vendors :P15:21
BCMMi kinda want details on that15:21
BCMMi mean, as a valid alternative, or as a neat trick where you reboot if you want to actually make calls?15:21
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DocScrutinizeror as a marketing trick, I mean it's a Sony15:27
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SpeedEvilcehteh: I think it's just the android patched kernel they're using + how to boot it, and nothing else.15:45
SpeedEvilcehteh: Which is positive - but not a working phone system15:45
SpeedEvilThough you can possibly put android on it.15:45
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BCMMSpeedEvil: where "it" is stuff they've released?15:54
BCMMso, no xorg...15:55
SpeedEvilBCMM: See the above blog15:55
BCMMSpeedEvil: what, slashdot?15:55
SpeedEvilAs I understand it the official release is simply how to get your kernel (provided source) booting.15:55
SpeedEvilAnd nothing more.15:55
SpeedEvilThe blog15:56
BCMMwhy can't i find it?15:56
BCMMah, there it is15:56
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DocScrutinizerhonestly, I for a short while considered to get the Sony P1 (long time ago) - I was just lucky I didn't rush so it became obvious they need a reboot every 24h before I got trapped by that shit16:01
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nussei'm trying to compile the example data-sharing plugin and receive ' error: possibly undefined macro: AC_ENABLE_SHARED', any hints how to survice the autotools-hell? whats missing here?16:16
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nussefor the record: install libtool and the correct automake version should fix it17:00
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BCMMi have a slight problem with the packaging guide - what's the correct way to make the next version of your application?17:07
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BCMMi have a checklist-0.1 dir and can successfully create and install checklist_0.1-4_armel.deb17:08
BCMMdo i just cp -r checklist-0.1 checklist-0.2, modify the sources, and rerun dh_make?17:08
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CorsacBCMM: no, you run dch -i, update the changelog entry, then run dpkg-buildpackage17:20
BCMMCorsac: gah, sorry - messed up dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage17:24
BCMMand yeah, i know i need to fix the changelog too17:24
BCMMi was really asking, is it sufficient to copy the directory, make modifications to sources, dch -i for the changelog and then build the package, or does one need to do dh_make or something?17:25
Corsacwhy copy the directory?17:25
Corsac(no need for dh_make)17:25
DocScrutinizerfor archive17:25
BCMMCorsac: well, copy or move17:25
Corsacnot needed anyway17:25
BCMMi'm not using any kind scm yet17:25
Corsac might give you some help on debian packaging17:25
Corsacit'd be worth it17:26
BCMMoh my, there's a lot of that...17:26
BCMMi'll have a stab at it anyway17:26
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BCMMCorsac: actually, i already had a look at that. it kind of assumes there is an upstream...17:27
BCMMi'm wondering if there's anything wrong with basically working in the directory i build packages in17:28
BCMMi mean, for a new version, cp the directory and edit the sources where they are17:28
BCMMor is there a reason to not do that?17:28
BCMM(or a more common way of doing something similar)]17:28
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BCMMoh i see, i don't really need to keep the old dir because it's been stored in the .orig for me...17:31
CorsacBCMM: if there's no upstream you can make a native package17:31
BCMMyes, just got to that bit17:31
Corsacbut in the usual case there's an upstream, even if he's the same person as the packager17:31
DocScrutinizercp -al17:32
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: link instead of copying?17:32
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DocScrutinizerquite nice, saves all the space for the unaltered files17:33
DocScrutinizerjust make sure your editor etc doesn't modify files, rather renames/deletes the old copy and creates a new file17:33
DocScrutinizerI think most editors do17:34
BCMMthat sounds unpredictable...17:34
DocScrutinizerI'm using this scheme to get snapshots of my rsync'd copy of N900 on PC17:35
BCMMstill not sure i let it know i'm moving from version 0.1 to 0.217:35
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BCMMdch -i has filled in (0.1-6) for me (up from -5 for the last one)17:35
DocScrutinizeryeah, I think there's some catch for that17:36
BCMMah, --fromdirname, -d17:37
DocScrutinizerask somebody who really knows about that stuff17:37
* DocScrutinizer doesn't17:38
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BCMMthanks, think i've worked out making new version now17:38
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BCMMwhat about building but not bothering with packaging?17:38
BCMM(so i can just scp the binary to the device to check it works)17:39
DocScrutinizerthere's no problem with that, no?17:40
* DocScrutinizer afk17:41
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BCMMah, debian/rules build17:44
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mootalk to me about bme18:18
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Guest82429if i stop it what are the consequances?18:18
SpeedEvilmoo: See
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moo_what will happen if i plug in the charger with bme stopped.18:19
SpeedEvilmoo: te device gets confused as to battery state, does not charge, and will not shut down till the hardware cutroff hits18:19
SpeedEvilNothing - unless rthe battery voltage is very low - in which case it will enter a slow hardware charge mode.18:19
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SpeedEvilWhich is not fast enough to charge the device if it's used at all.18:20
SpeedEvilAnd will take about 14 hours to charge, if idle.18:20
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SpeedEvil(But won't charge beyond about 10%)18:20
moo_is voltage updatedok18:21
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moo_is voltage info provided anywhere else? i.e will lshal still work?18:22
SpeedEvilI'm unsure. Yoiu can query the battery voltage direcytly over I2C18:22
SpeedEvilWhy are you asking?18:22
moo_becuse i just found out what is irq 56 that is responsible for over 40% of my hw wakeups18:24
moo_it is bme btw18:24
moo_if it provides nothing more than 'reporting' battery charge...18:24
moo_fuck it18:24
jacekowskiit's charging battery18:24
moo_I can monitor dbus for 'charger connected' message18:25
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moo_then start dbus when charger is connected, stop it when disconnected18:25
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moo_I have the script that i think was written by dr scrutiniser18:26
SpeedEvilmoo_: It's monitoring the charge process - it means little.18:26
SpeedEvilmoo_: Check it with the USB lead off18:26
moo_check what?18:27
SpeedEvilUnplug the USB lead.18:27
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SpeedEvilYou should see several seconds between wakes - average c4 residence time - with all radios off18:27
paulyany one want to buy n900 with broken usb port and no stylus18:27
moo_what country?18:27
Sicelohey ya pauly18:27
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moo_SpeedEvil: I was suggesting ONLY running bme when plugged into charger.  start and stop of bme controlled by the charger plugged/unplugged dbus message.18:29
paulysicelo want to buy it18:29
moo_SpeedEvil: you understard.18:29
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moo_or even better...18:31
SpeedEvilmoo_: BME does nothing when unplugged - pretty much18:31
SpeedEvilmoo_: It does not significanrtly wake the device.18:31
moo_it does18:31
moo_it generates around 250 hw wake ups over 30s18:31
SpeedEvilPastebin powertop please.18:31
SpeedEvilThis is with the screen off?18:32
paulySicelo: ?18:32
SpeedEvilPastebin your powertop output18:32
moo_i am not asking help with power issues18:32
SpeedEvilDo you have any battery monitoring software running?18:33
moo_there is nothing wrong with my setup just now18:33
SpeedEvilmoo_: There is.18:33
moo_battery is fine18:33
SpeedEvilBME should not b significantly active when device is unplugged.18:33
moo_ok, il give you a ptop then18:34
SpeedEvildevice unplugged - offline mode - with device locked18:34
moo_with device unplugged, offline mode+ locked i get around 500wakups/s with around 2seconds in c418:35
moo_which is about the same as a freshly flashed n90018:36
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moo_which is normal18:36
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SpeedEvilWakeups/second is misleading.18:36
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SpeedEvilYou almost don't care about it.18:36
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SpeedEvilYou care about wakeups from C4 lots more than you care about wakeups from C118:37
SpeedEvilBut they are all reported the same18:37
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moo_ok here is what im gonna do18:41
moo_when the dbus inactivity message is sent i will underclock, undervolt and stop bme.18:43
moo_when the phone is unlocked bme starts again.18:43
moo_bme will only be stopped IF the charger is unplugged.18:43
moo_that way when phone is in pocket (most of the time) bme will not be running18:44
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moo_thus saving me ~250 hw w/s18:45
SpeedEvilI've had 8 days battery life, with logged into wifi, with BME running.18:45
SpeedEvilAnd cell modem on18:46
moo_8 days?18:46
HukkaSpeedEvil: How?18:46
moo_i dont believ you!18:46
HukkaIs your phone just magical?18:46
SpeedEvilLeave the device idle - have a properly powersaving AP.18:46
SpeedEvilAnd not have any software that's doing bad stuff.18:46
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moo_don't believe 8 days though18:47
* SpeedEvil checks.18:47
SpeedEvilIt was around that.18:47
Corsacwell, if you leave the device idle battery life doesn't really matter, you could switch it off and it would last weeks :)18:47
moo_n900 sucks a paperweight18:47
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kerioi didn't know paperweights needed a battery18:48
SpeedEvilI regularly get power consumption rates in the 6-8mA range. This equates to about 8 days.18:48
SpeedEvilAnd I did a test over about 6 days of minimal usage18:48
moo_if i wanted crazy batterylife i would have a monochrome nokia18:48
SpeedEvilInstalling powerrtop again to check.18:49
moo_pt doesnt tell you the discharge current18:49
SpeedEvilNo. it doesn't.18:50
moo_where are you getting that 6-8 figure from.18:50
SpeedEvilRead that - which I mostly wrote.18:50
moo_that looks like an interesting read SpeedEvil18:52
moo_thank you18:52
DocScrutinizer100% same page with SpeedEvil18:54
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SpeedEvilWhat would be truly awesome would be a powertop that gave the pid/activity/name chart - but *12 - for each state to each other state18:55
SpeedEvilWhat you really care about is what woke it from C4.18:55
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SpeedEvilNot what the system chose to do while it was awake.18:55
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: there are no 12 state transitions. The state machine diagram has pointers *from* c1..c5 ->c0 only18:57
DocScrutinizerthere's never a c5->c3 transition18:57
derfI've always found powertop to be mostly useless.18:57
SpeedEvilI suppose so.18:57
SpeedEvilObvious really.18:57
SpeedEvilderf: It's mostly uselss - if you read it like top.18:58
SpeedEvilderf: You need to understand what it means.18:58
derfAs the vast majority of the wakeups it reports are "kernel timer", and doesn't give any obvious way to associate those with processes, or even any specific activity.18:58
SpeedEvilAlso see the comedic 'awk' reference.18:58
* Sicelo never knew there is screen for N900. wow!19:00
trxdamn i lost my stylus :/19:00
trxi dont even use it but i hate looking at the empty slot :/19:00
Hukkatrx: Bubble gum :?19:02
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moo_trx: go on deal extreme they are lie $119:02
trxhaha :)19:02
trxmoo_ tnx19:02
moo_DocScrutinizer: what ever became of jr_bme?19:02
HukkaThough if color matters, I'm sure there's children's molding wax too19:02
moo_DocScrutinizer: what like fruit?19:03
DocScrutinizermore like brandy19:03
moo_so i gotta wait for jr_bme XO edition?19:04
DocScrutinizerlook at
moo_I have seen the script19:04
DocScrutinizerthere are details in bme that are a pita to emulate, like hal_addon_bme for proper battery charge reporting19:05
DocScrutinizermonitoring of sysfs for detecting plug in of charger without polling19:05
moo_charger has a dbus signal19:06
moo_no polling required19:06
DocScrutinizeronly when bme is running ;-P19:06
DocScrutinizerafaik yes19:06
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moo_gotta check this...brb19:07
DocScrutinizercharger plugin is detected in musb_hdrc.ko (the part where you can find the "some asshole called chargerdetect" comment in hostmode enabled kernel) and that's what bme does and why we needed to stop it (among other reasons) for h-e-n to work properly19:09
ShadowJKbme is the one that generates the dbus signal19:09
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DocScrutinizeractually that function in musb_hdrc gets called when you read /sys/*/charger19:11
DocScrutinizerbme does that19:11
DocScrutinizeranyway, what you want to detect is /sys/*/vbus19:12
DocScrutinizerdunno who does that, guess it's bme as well19:12
moo_there is a dbus message there19:12
DocScrutinizerof course there's hulda as well19:13
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DocScrutinizermaybe it plays the game19:13
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gn00banyone have an N900 that suddenly won't charge? i've always used the usb > computer to charge my phone, but now it doesn't work. tried the wall charger and that doesn't work either.19:15
HukkaHas the usb socket come off the board?19:15
DocScrutinizerbad news19:15
gn00bdoes nokia make a charger just for the battery?19:15
* RST38h yawns widely19:15
gn00bHukka, no. it works for other devices19:15
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DocScrutinizergn00b: we're talking bout N900 USB receptacle19:16
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HukkaTime to ask again: Does anyone know if there's a way to programmatically disable the proximity sensor? More precisely I'd like calls to be visible and enable the touchscreen even when in a pocket19:16
DocScrutinizerthat's a function of dialer I guess19:17
DocScrutinizercan't get changed easily19:17
MohammadAGunless you disable it in mce19:17
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HukkaMohammadAG: Could you elaborate?19:17
DocScrutinizergood point19:17
MohammadAGedit /etc/mce/mce.ini19:18
DocScrutinizerhead /etc/mce/mce.ini19:18
MohammadAGline Modules=19:18
MohammadAGremove callstate19:18
MohammadAGstop mce && sleep 1 && start mce19:18
MohammadAGthat will also keep ts vibra active during calls19:19
DocScrutinizernice :-P19:19
MohammadAGright now haptic feedback is disabled in calls, for some reason...19:19
HukkaI do get vibra when called19:19
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MohammadAGHukka, after answering19:20
DocScrutinizertouchscreen feedback kick19:20
MohammadAGduring calls, you don't get vibra feedback when you touch the screen19:20
MohammadAGof course, you could have that disabled all in all19:20
HukkaAh, yeah I have touch vibra off all the time19:20
HukkaHaven't ever noticed :)19:20
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MohammadAGso it shouldn't matter to you :p19:20
HukkaHm? FAM want's to remove my flac support in upgrade19:21
HukkaI wonder why19:21
DocScrutinizerbut watch your earlobes then :-D19:21
* MohammadAG ponders removing the homekey module19:21
MohammadAGit's not like we have a homekey19:21
HukkaDocScrutinizer: ?19:21
MohammadAGhe means touchscreen will be active in call19:21
HukkaAh, doesn't matter19:22
MohammadAGtbh, Nokia's current solution sucks19:22
HukkaI'll use handsfree or speaker19:22
MohammadAGthey could just disable the screen19:22
MohammadAGrather than turn it off19:22
HukkaMohammadAG: Sorry, what's the difference?19:22
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: it makes for 35% increased call time19:22
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MohammadAGecho 1 > /sys/devices/platform/omap2_mcspi.1/spi1.0/disable_ts19:23
MohammadAGthat disables the touchscreen19:23
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MohammadAGbut keeps it on19:23
DocScrutinizerdidn't know19:23
MohammadAGthere's also keypad disable somewhere19:24
MohammadAGbasically, that's what mce does19:24
HukkaI was hoping for something like that for the proximity sensor, but I'll try the mce thing19:24
MohammadAGit disables the screen and blanks it19:24
MohammadAGthat's the "lock"19:24
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HukkaMohammadAG: You woudln't happen to know if there's a way to change the autolock feature from command line?19:25
HukkaI'd also like the screen to react to touch after blanking in two minutes19:25
HukkaBut would like to make a small applet on home screen  that can change this, so I wouldn't have to go to the settings all the time19:26
MohammadAGisn't there an option for that?19:26
MohammadAGyeah, gconf19:26
HukkaAny hints where to find the right toggle?19:26
MohammadAGyou can find the gconf keys here
HukkaOk, thank you19:26
MohammadAGunder src, should be in the #define-s19:26
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HukkaGreat, I think this should cover it19:27
DocScrutinizermoo_: ??19:27
moo_will turning off watchdog timers reduce number of hardware wakups.19:27
DocScrutinizernot significantly19:28
DocScrutinizeractually not at all19:28
HukkaMohammadAG: I have a transparent pocket in my bikes handlebar bag, but it prevents access to the side keys, and proximity sensor doesn't think it's that transparent. Now I can create a "bikemode" applet that in one click makes the phone operatable through the pocket plastic19:28
HukkaAnd once I'm done, another press would make it work ok in my trouser pocket again19:29
MohammadAGah, should be easy19:29
DocScrutinizerHukka: sounds good19:29
moo_how can i have right click with prox sensor covered?19:30
HukkaThough when I asked before I only got the usual "Why do you want to use it in a pocket? Make a hole in the pocket or something. I hear that some fabrics can make the sensor think it's outside"19:30
DocScrutinizerhmm, nice idea19:30
moo_DocScrutinizer: me?19:30
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HukkaAlso I think the applet should change the status lights so that I don't leave it on accidentaly and make pocket calls19:31
DocScrutinizerHukka: np, you can change mce.ini for that19:31
moo_finally, everyday i spend literally minutes inventing schemes to suggest in here under different user names just to impress you doc.19:31
HukkaDocScrutinizer: Yeah, that I already knew19:31
moo_now i can sleep19:32
MohammadAGwell, he can't change mce.ini dynamically :P19:32
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: huh, he can't?19:32
HukkaI can't?19:32
moo_you have to restat mce AFAIK19:33
DocScrutinizerpattern editor can19:33
HukkaBut is that a problem?19:33
MohammadAGhe has to restart it19:33
HukkaMohammadAG: Any downsides?19:33
MohammadAGno, but do it over 5 times quickly and it locks for 5 minutes19:33
HukkaOh, why?19:34
DocScrutinizernot really, except losing any special state of indicator light, like blue blinking19:34
MohammadAGstupid upstart safety feature19:34
jacekowskiyou probably can modify patterns live19:34
HukkaHow quickly is quickly?19:34
jacekowskii mean it's all in memory19:34
MohammadAG5 times under a minute19:34
HukkaMohammadAG: No problem at all19:34
moo_so which driver detects touchscreen input? and how is a 'click' detected?19:34
jacekowskiand there is nothing stopping you from modyfying of process memory19:34
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MohammadAGI guess19:35
HukkaMoving on in the list of "perfect cycle phone", is there a good portrait mode clock application?19:35
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: evil hax0r19:35
HukkaUsing the alarm clock app is a bit annoying, since the phone pocket is in portrait19:35
MohammadAGthe touchscreen is a glorified mouse19:35
MohammadAGHukka, not that I know of, but one should be easy to make with Qt19:36
RST38h"To access HBO GO^(SM), you must reside within the fifty states of the United States of America.19:36
RST38hIf you reside in this area and are still experiencing difficulties, please contact your television provider."19:36
RST38h(and then they complain about people using torrents...)19:36
HukkaHm, although maybe a talking clock would be even better...19:37
HukkaI'll check that app too19:37
DocScrutinizernow THAT is simple19:37
moo_where is the source? and is it feasible to put a condition that reports the click 'check proxitity sensor, if 1, right click. else left.19:37
HukkaMohammadAG: Does the order of modules in mce.ini matter?19:37
HukkaWould be easier to programmaticly add the callstate back as the last in line.19:37
HukkaOk, great19:37
MohammadAGmoo_, not sure how easy that'd be19:38
jacekowskimoo_: not so easy19:39
MohammadAGyou'd need to connect two drivers together, or modify X's config19:39
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DocScrutinizerhmm layering issues19:39
moo_my dreams of a rightclick evapourate like spirit of christmas past@3am19:39
MohammadAGI also think there's a way of modifying UX toolkits19:40
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MohammadAGyou might be able to modify Qt and Gtk's sources to do that19:40
HukkaMohammadAG: Hm, removing the callstate module didn't really do what I was hoping for...19:40
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MohammadAGthey're already modifed to have hold to right click19:40
MohammadAGHukka, hmm?19:40
HukkaMohammadAG: If the screen is blanked, it won't activate it at all, no matter what the proximity sensor says19:40
MohammadAGyou mean when a call comes in?19:41
HukkaI'd like the screen to get activated all the time, no matter whether it thinks it's in a pocket or not19:41
HukkaMohammadAG: Yes19:41
DocScrutinizerit's not aware of callstate anymore ;-P19:41
MohammadAGmake a quick script for it19:41
MohammadAGjust listen to dbus19:41 or something19:41
HukkaOk, and how to activate the screen?19:41
MohammadAGthen tie that to unlock the screen with mce19:41
MohammadAGdbus-send --system --type=method_call /com/nokia/mce/request string:"unlocked"19:42
HukkaIs there a howto page on the mce somewhere?19:42
MohammadAGdbus-scripts can help, but I suck at it so I'd rather make a Qt daemon19:42
DocScrutinizerbut we got source of *something* \o/19:42
Hukkadbus-scripts is an app, or something?19:43
DocScrutinizera nice app19:43
moo_hey mo, what is gps callback in 'phone-control'?19:43
HukkaHow would the Qt daemon differ, it needs to bind to the dbus anyway?19:43
DocScrutinizerto monitor dbus for certain patterns and then start arbitrary scripts19:43
MohammadAGit ties dbus events to dbus methods afaik19:43
moo_Hukka: dbus-scripts is the n900 swiss chainsaw19:43
moo_Hukka: of scripting19:44
HukkaMaybe I'll see that first19:44
DocScrutinizerI strongly recomend to do that19:44
HukkaMight be that I never even bother to make a desktop app, instead just run the mode change from terminal every time ;)19:44
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MohammadAGphone-control --gps?19:44
moo_Hukka: dbus-scripts-settings is also useful for getting started too.19:44
HukkaWould it make sense to have my script to change the indicator colors "manually", or would it be better to use another app for that (I know there are some for changing the colors)?19:45
DocScrutinizerHukka: queen-beecon widget?19:45
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HukkaDocScrutinizer: Never heard of that, I'll check it19:45
moo_MohammadAG: in the source for PC there is an 'experimental' function for gps that is not listed19:45
DocScrutinizermoo_: dbus-scripts-settings is kinda PITA and buggy19:46
HukkaDocScrutinizer: Seems like it might be nice too19:46
moo_i was wondering what it does19:46
pupnikwhat's the command to make a screenshot19:46
pupnikon n90019:46
moo_DocScrutinizer: agree, however it helped me understand what was going on19:46
moo_with dbus-scripts19:46
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HukkaWhere can I find the dbus-scripts? FAM doesn't find it19:47
DocScrutinizeryeah, I think I looked at an own homemade example of -settings, then edited the file to match what I needed19:47
HukkaHm, found the wiki page19:47
HukkaWeird, I thought I still have extras-devel on19:47
HukkaYeah, I do. Still no hit19:48
DocScrutinizeruse HAM!19:48
SpeedEvilHukka: I would try putting a small bit of foil and black insulation tap over the sensor, and see if it doesn't see either19:49
HukkaSpeedEvil: I'm more of a sw than hw hacker ;)19:49
SpeedEvilIs there a 'right' way to stop dsme?19:49
pupnikThe air attacks lasted 20 minutes, concentrating on the ship's electronic antennas and dishes. The 'Liberty' was left afire, listing sharply. Eight of her crew lay dead, a hundred seriously wounded, including the captain, Commander William McGonagle.19:49
DocScrutinizerstop dsme? err no, maybe not19:49
HukkaSpeedEvil: But I don't quite get it, the foil reflects so isn't that exactly what the sensor sees as the pocket?19:50
SpeedEvilI only know that name from:
SpeedEvilHukka: I don't know19:50
HukkaAt least someone said that it uses reflections19:50
DocScrutinizerHukka: yes19:50
SpeedEvilBEAUTIFUL Railway Bridge of the Silvery Tay !19:51
SpeedEvil     With your numerous arches and pillars in so grand array19:51
SpeedEvil     And your central girders, which seem to the eye19:51
SpeedEvil     To be almost towering to the sky.19:51
DocScrutinizeryou could try black velvet or similar19:51
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DocScrutinizerthis time and today for real19:52
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moolol random reboot due to all my crap scriptz19:53
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moo_what is the entry in /sys/ that details charger?19:54
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nussewhere do the ULOG_DEBUG_L() logs go to?20:17
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MohammadAGwho knows curl?20:26
nussenever heard of it20:27
nusseULOG_* goes to syslog, btw.20:27
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nusseis there a special maemo-dev channel?20:28
MohammadAGvariable= {variable2=value, variable3=anothervalue }20:28
MohammadAGwhat do the {} brackets do?20:29
DocScrutinizerrather dead over there at -devel20:29
nusseruskie: thx20:29
nusseDocScrutinizer: i didn't receive any answers here either20:30
DocScrutinizerwell, maybe because nobody knew an answer?20:30
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: looks like python?20:31
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nah, curl20:32
DocScrutinizerno idea20:32
DocScrutinizerI think it's caled curl because of the curly brackets20:33
nussei'm wondering if the sharing-infrastructure always needs an account, i receive "sharing_account_store_add_account need to create new last added id"20:33
DocScrutinizerlooks like a definition of a dict/struct instance20:34
DocScrutinizerwhat makes you all think anybody here knows what you're talking about?20:35
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DocScrutinizerfeels like20:36
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DocScrutinizershall I use a better word for 'people' in line 7 of this letter?20:36
nussewell, this is the #maemo channel and i'm asking maemo questions20:39
kerioDocScrutinizer: python uses : to delimit keys and values in dict literals20:39
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RST38hDoc:using "puny humans" always makes it sound more official20:41
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infobotmethinks question is If you have a question and want people to give useful answers, make sure you have read this first:
dashavooanybody have problems tethering N900 in the latest Ubuntu?20:42
nussedashavoo: pand didnt work for me but it might be a problem on my laptop20:43
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dashavoonusse: I can't tether using USB on the latest Ubuntu.. I knew I should have installed alongside my old version insead of a fresh install... now I have no software, and no internet cconnection20:44
dashavooI would be really screwed if I didn't have my laptop20:44
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kr1shnakhi. I have an old N800 device which I would like to so some hobbyist hacking on. I just want to play around, not spend a lot of time on any particular language or APIs. Could anyone recommend tools, libraries for this kind of fun hacking?21:05
kr1shnakbasically I want to put the minimal amount of time into this, but want to make use of the hardware. Maybe create some kind of pimped out alarm clock from it or something like that21:06
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pupnikuse it21:09
dangergrrlhey DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG thanks for the pointer on the modified fmtxd, i can transmit on illegal freqs while charging now :)21:10
dangergrrlof course the xmit on illegal freqs part isn't all that useful i only have legal receivers :)21:11
pupnikdangergrrl: did you download the guantanamo detainee list21:11
pupnikfrom google spreadsheets?21:11
dangergrrlno, why should i look for myself in case they think i am there? :)21:11
pupnikthere are still people locked in that dungeon21:11
pupnikwe should free them21:11
dangergrrlyes and usa and uk and the others need to leave afghanistan21:12
pupnikthis needs to be forcefully said21:12
dangergrrlosama bin laden was the goal, he is reportedly dead21:12
dangergrrlfait accompli21:12
pupniki agree21:12
pupniknow is the excuse to go home21:13
dangergrrlwell, i voted for the guy who promised those things21:13
dangergrrlso far he hasn't kept his word21:13
pupnikshould have supported ron paul21:13
dangergrrlbut i did my part21:13
pupnikyou have another chance21:13
pupnikto not be stupid this time21:13
dangergrrland i voted for my gay congresscreep21:13
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dangergrrlso i don't bother writing him letters to repeal DOMA21:14
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pupnikthere is one good man in congress21:14
dangergrrlyou would think he knows his constituents support that21:14
pupnikhe is only there21:14
dangergrrlrol paul?21:14
pupnikbecause he delivered most of his constitutents21:14
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dangergrrli voted for him for president on the libertarian ticket21:15
pupniksuddenly i love you21:15
dangergrrlif i hadn't been scared stiff of sarah palin i would have voted for nader last time tbh21:15
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dangergrrli believe in the green party agenda21:16
dangergrrlbut mccain/palin was scary21:16
dangergrrlmccain is OLD21:16
pupniki agree21:16
pupnikplease check out scott horton's show every day21:16
pupnikhe is truly great21:17
dangergrrli should listen to a recent art bell or alex jones show21:17
dangergrrlboth of them are certifiable crackpots21:17
pupnikdumb dumb21:17
pupnikscott horton21:17
dangergrrlbut some of what they say has to be true21:17
pupniksmart smart21:17
pupnikdon't waste your time21:17
pupnikhow the hell do you not know antiwar radio21:18
pupnikhow are you so... uninformed21:18
dangergrrli don't buy the orbital mind control satellites21:18
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dangergrrlor the reptiallian shadow government conspiracy21:18
pupniki am angry and dismayed at you21:18
pupnikyou are talking about stupid things21:18
dangergrrlsomeone would know if our leaders were secretly snakes21:18
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pupnikshut the fuck up21:18
dangergrrlbut the govt is feeding 9/11 conspiracy theory by not releasing proof of obl's death in a timely fashion21:19
pupnikdumb bitch21:20
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dangergrrli like the www he linked21:21
dangergrrli still believe there is value in listening to nutjobs21:22
trxyou shouldn't talk about topics that can lead to exactly this anyways..21:22
dangergrrli think mentioning illegal broadcasting led to this :)21:23
dangergrrlin practice the part of the band that my n900 can now transmit to is being used for greyspace internet in some cities21:24
dangergrrli wouldn't want to interfere with those signals21:24
MohammadAGbut FM stations already interfere with your music, so the effects' downsides are canceled out :P21:25
dangergrrlif i had another n900 it could be useful for point to point21:25
dangergrrli'm wanting a way to enable the mic and fm transmitter from ssh if it's stolen21:26
trxwhy the transmitter?21:27
dangergrrlso you can hear around the n900 from a fm radio if you are nearby21:27
trxhaha, the small chance that you will be in 3 meters of your stolen n90021:28
dangergrrli think the n900 may make a fairly handy spy device also other than short battery life21:28
trxits a*21:28
dangergrrlmaybe not :P21:28
dangergrrlactually it only works for about a meter on my bike radio21:29
dangergrrldidn't think of that21:29
trxeven better :)21:29
dangergrrlnever mind21:29
dangergrrli'm a blonde21:29
trxit would be easier to just play music via the speakers :)21:29
dangergrrlbut i'm guessing that's partially the ignition rf noise21:30
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dangergrrln900 works on the motorcycle if it's closer to the radio than my spark plugs21:31
dangergrrlprobably in my head21:31
trxprobably :)21:31
iluminator101Hey, How Do I Import Public Holidays to n900 main calender?21:31
dangergrrli bet they are in cal format somewhere21:32
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dangergrrloh wow21:33
dangergrrlthe bl-5j stores 1320 mAh21:33
dangergrrlmy new jump pack 12Ah21:33
dangergrrlso it should be able to fully charge n900 like 9 times21:34
dangergrrlbut it's usb port won't charge n900, have to use a car charger with it21:34
SpeedEvil'jump pack' ?21:35
SpeedEvilIf that's 12V@12Ah - that is more like 25 times.21:35
dangergrrlportable battery booster for starting a car or motorcycle21:35
dangergrrl25 times... even better21:35
dangergrrli was thinking of buying a powermonkey extreme solar charger for camping at the beach21:36
dangergrrlthis thing needs a vehicle or grid power to recharge21:37
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dangergrrlbut it was only $60us, powermonkey extreme isn't shipping for several weeks and costs 100gbp21:38
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SpeedEvilYou can get solar thingies that will recharge it21:42
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dangergrrlit's one of these:
dangergrrlnice camping equipment but i wish i had a trailer21:46
SpeedEvilCaveats - if you discharge it deeply, and then leave it, it's probably wrecked. It needs to be recharged promptly if you discharge it under 10.6V21:47
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dangergrrlif i use it camping i'll be hiking to charge it when it gets low21:47
dangergrrli bought it because i was stranded with a dead battery yesterday21:48
dangergrrlit was a jump pak or cables and sit around looking dumb holding cables21:48
dangergrrli'd have gotten a jump i'm sure but the jump pak is more useful21:48
SpeedEvil - or similar - would charge it in 2-3 days of good sun21:49
dangergrrli presume it's a dry cell battery or there would be warnings about charging it indoors21:49
dangergrrllooking at that one lustfully21:50
SpeedEvilIt's not.21:50
SpeedEvilIt'll be a sealed lead-acid.21:50
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dangergrrlbeen shopping for an agm one for my motorcycle i think the walmart lead acid one i have is dieing21:52
dangergrrlbut i guess if i carry a jump pack i won't care that much21:53
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SpeedEvilAs context - the battery you have is 4-5 times that capacity.21:53
SpeedEvil(though admittedly a bit heavier than 5*)21:53
dangergrrl4-5* the powermonkey extreme?21:54
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dangergrrlbut the powermonkey comes with the solar charger21:54
RST38hNo, you cannot charge your car or bike battery with solar power.21:55
dangergrrland it's rated better than the solio21:55
RST38h-- Sincerely Yours, Cpt Obvious21:55
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SpeedEvilRST38h: Err - yes, you can.21:55
RST38hSpeed: Ok, theoretically you can/21:56
SpeedEvilSee the above link21:56
RST38hPractically, you are screwed there21:56
dangergrrlactually i bet i could charge this jump box enough to get er started if i were camping anyhow21:56
dangergrrlmight take a day or three21:56
SpeedEvilThe above panel will work - if in good sun and pointed right - to charge it in about a day or two21:56
dangergrrlthat panel with what i already have would be a great combo for camping at the beach21:57
RST38hOr a week, yes21:57
RST38hForget it, it is snake oil21:58
SpeedEvilA week of bad weather, yes21:58
RST38hmonth of bad weather21:58
jacekowskiis official repository blocked in iran or something?21:58
dangergrrloh hai jacekowski21:59
jacekowskii've had recently quite a lot of traffic to my repo mirror from iran21:59
dangergrrlthanks for the fmtx hack21:59
jacekowskiwho are you?21:59
ShadowJKYeah I think it's blockdd in iran22:00
dangergrrlsomeone who was referred to your page yesterday when i lamented not being to charge my n900 with using the fm transmitter22:00
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dangergrrlgetting ready for an epic motorcycle trip, need my pandora on the road :)22:01
SpeedEvilIf you're on a motorbike trip - driving lots - then you can tap the bike power22:02
trxwhat motorcycle do you have?22:02
dangergrrla gold wing gl150022:02
trxnot a fan of those bikes tho22:03
dangergrrli was gonna hack my own secondary power system22:03
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dangergrrlbut i think the jump pak is a superior solution if i have room for it22:04
trxbikes usually get 12V from their generator22:04
trxwhy don't you use that?22:04
jacekowskidangergrrl: are you a female?22:05
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dangergrrlkey cylinder is blown and it's supereasy to take the key out in on position22:05
jacekowskihmm, unusual22:05
dangergrrlbattery drains and you can't start22:05
jacekowskido you have any photos to prove it22:06
jacekowskilike you holding a piece of paper with text like "maemo ftw"22:06
jacekowskiand current data22:06
* SpeedEvil notes jacekowski wants pics of a loose cylinder.22:06
RST38hcurrent datE, jacekowski22:07
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jacekowskiRST38h: i've corrected myself in next line22:07
RST38hand something is telling me, you are not getting one22:07
* RST38h laughs satanically22:08
dangergrrlmaybe i'm ugly and self conscious :P22:08
RST38hor REALLY interested in loose cylinders!22:08
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nussecan anyone point me out how to debug sharing-plugsin?22:32
nussewhere do they go to?22:32
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RST38hwherever you direct them to22:33
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nussei'd like to use ULOG_ then22:34
nusseor gdb22:34
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RST38hYou can use GDB if you figure out the PID of the process that runs your plugin22:36
RST38hI.e., use printfs :)22:37
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Arkenoi wow, aren't that drugs on controlled substances list? or do those guys have a prescription?22:39
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RST38hArkenoi: Lawyers. They have all got prescriptions.22:41
MohammadAGdidn't this channel have about 500 users last year?22:42
nusseRST38h: i don't even know which methods are being called and i don't see why i shouldn use ULOG22:42
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RST38hnusse:ULOG will probably work22:43
nussemaybe i have to define OSSOLOG_COMPILE22:44
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mc_teoany html/css peeps here?22:52
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ArkenoiRST38h, they invested $25M in SCO! I wonder who owns that money and how do they feel about it.23:01
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RST38hArkenoi: Some mutual funds. And they do not "feel" about it.23:06
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ArkenoiRST38h, something is damn wrong with economics if things like that are allowed and no one cares or questions the competence of people who manage other people's investments23:12
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RST38hArkenoi: people who care do not invest into mutual funds.23:14
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norayrX-Fade: hey?23:17
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