IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2011-05-07

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rm_youI AM BACK01:32
rm_youfscking windoze01:33
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pupnik_Homeland security seizes domains. Firefox provides add-on that circumvents this. Homeland security demands that Firefox remove the add-on. Firefox responds to demand with list of  inconvenient questions
pupnik_hey rm_you01:39
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rm_youhey pupnik_01:39
cehtehDocScrutinizer:  3.9GB btw01:40
cehteh(anyone else here using monav?)01:41
SpeedEvilcehteh: what's that?01:42
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cehtehvector maps and insanely fast routing01:42
SpeedEvilThat sounds too large.01:42
cehtehquote from christoph: "the bad thing about it is, that you dont even notice when you took the wrong way because it instantly reroutes"01:43
cehtehtoo large for what?01:43
SpeedEvilcehteh: Is that in PBF?01:44
cehtehthats the german OSM maps with a very big windows into its neighbour countries01:44
cehtehmonav format (thats a some dirs with a lot preprocessed files)01:44
cehtehi just squashfs'ed it01:44
pupnik_nice cehteh01:45
pupnik_works on n900?01:45
cehtehnormally unpacked its about 6GB01:45
SpeedEvilSeems large -as all of europe in PBF is 5.6G01:45
cehteh(needs power kernel for squashfs and loopback)01:45
SpeedEvil(8G in bz2)01:45
cehtehSpeedEvil: can that insanely fast route?01:46
SpeedEvilIt's the raw data format.01:46
cehtehso thats something completely different01:46
cehtehmonav uses some new algorithm which packs the routing logic into the file data and then the device can just access the file in some special way to *have* the routes without expensive computations01:47
nox-cehteh, 40301:47
SpeedEvilCompurtations are not that expnsive with properr heirarchies.01:47
cehtehtry now01:47
cehtehSpeedEvil: yes but i am not aware of any other software for the n900 which does that01:48
cehtehany other mapping thing on the n900 uses either online routing or sucks01:49
cehtehpossibly both01:49
cehtehyou dont have good bike or pedestrian routing01:49
SpeedEvilTo be fair, germany is probably unusually well served with OSM01:50
cehtehwell works for me :)01:50
pupnik_wonderful stuff cehteh01:50
SpeedEvilThere seems to be something in the German mapper that is a little bit completist.01:51
cehtehwell thank the monav people, not me, i only had the idea to squashfs the german map because i dont want to conserve some space on my sd card01:51
cehtehchristoph also saied that there may be file format changes in the future, internet updates and so on .. lets see01:52
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cehtehi wonder how big a europe map would be compressed :P01:53
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DocScrutinizercehteh: thanks. Still wondering if I really need it01:57
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nox-oh yeah and thanx cehteh :)01:58
cehtehhehe dunno .. i just made it available for fun and because you have to install a backported squashfs gor compress it01:58
cehtehof course you can d/l the maps from the official site and use them uncompressed or squash them by yourself01:58
DocScrutinizercehteh: should I mirror it on my box?01:59
cehtehthats my hetzner box so traffic isnt a big problem02:00
DocScrutinizerI'd do that "just for you" to have a second source you can link to02:00
cehtehno need02:00
DocScrutinizer(hetzner) I know02:00
cehtehit will prolly be outdated sometime soon when the monav people provide newer maps02:00
cehtehi then generate a new one for me personally and if anyone asks me i can upload it again02:01
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DocScrutinizerhow about generating the new one on your box ;-)02:01
cehtehif you want to .. feel free02:01
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cehtehyou saied you played with monav .. how about a whole europe map?02:02
cehtehand canary islands please :P02:02
DocScrutinizernah, just thought your box probably idles anyway, and you'd have to dl it locally anyway as well, while your box has a better backbone probably02:02
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cehtehi am very lazy at this and will only care as much i need it by myself02:03
DocScrutinizerjust was suggesting about a way to avoid dog slow upload02:04
cehtehi also asked christoph about putting the squashed maps on the osm server, but he replied that they then have to do that for all maps and for all squashfs versions which is a maintenance burden as well as the format will likely change soon02:04
cehtehthat was my fault, otherwise i try to work on the server and only download then02:04
cehtehbittorrent on the hetzner server rocks ... getting a (free!) movie in 5 minutes down :P02:05
DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant :-D02:05
cehtehyeah i can do that on my server too02:05
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cehtehi just had the idea about squashing the cruft after i downloaded it to my home box, squashed it there and then uploaded it over serveral days :P02:06
DocScrutinizerhetzner backbone indeed rocks02:06
DocScrutinizerwhen I did a wget of some MB, I thought "wtf went wrong??" when the cmd returned in NO time02:07
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DocScrutinizerfaster than my local HDD ;-D02:08
DocScrutinizeranyway, booztime02:10
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jacekowskicehteh: 5 minutes?02:23
jacekowskicehteh: i can do it in less than 60s02:24
jacekowskicehteh: in ovh in france02:24
jacekowskicehteh: on gigabit link02:24
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lcukMohammadAG, on your poll, the "Other" entries have 17%, are they listable somewhere?03:52
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MohammadAGlcuk, they violate facebook's rules, so I didn't include them03:54
MohammadAG(and one violates Apple's rules) :P03:54
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MohammadAGalso, I'll include the iOS icons for now04:06
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MohammadAGhopefully some designer will help me replace them asap04:06
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lolcatMohammadAG: Cisco iOS or Apple iOS?04:08
MohammadAGApple iOS04:09
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lolcatI think it is confusing they named them the same04:13
lolcatThey should have made a better name04:13
lcukthey need a poll to choose names! :P04:14
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lolcatlcuk: Nah, their name would just end up being: "Other" every single time04:15
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MohammadAGlcuk, nope, they can sue cisco04:22
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fusi[n900]oh crap04:32
fusi[n900]just overwrote /etc/modules accidentally04:33
fusi[n900]copypasta from website and copied terminating >04:33
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fusi[n900]so ended up executing nano > /etc/modules04:34
fusi[n900]would someone mind pastebinning what the contents of this file should like please04:34
SpeedEvilEmpty is functioanlly equivalent.04:35
SpeedEvilIt's got nothing but comments04:35
fusi[n900]ah jolly good04:35
fusi[n900]thank you04:35
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MohammadAGGoogle forced me to change my Youtube password due to suspicious activity04:40
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I wouldn't have expected anything else than suspicious activities when *you*'re using youtube ;-D04:47
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DocScrutinizerjust make sure it's not been this request that was the real suspicious activity - I.E. a phishing hoax04:50
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DocScrutinizerhey, that's cool! freenode now filters your password, so you can't type it accidentally, like '****'04:52
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DocScrutinizerwhenever I type my password ******, it comes to channel as ****04:53
DocScrutinizernow please change your facebook password, there's been suspicious activity!04:53
DocScrutinizerold password:04:54
DocScrutinizer<facebook> Please enter your old password:04:55
fusi[n900]wannawrite a script to make the n900 keyb leds do a knightrider thing when slid out :)04:56
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DocScrutinizerduh, isn't that just *too* simple?04:56
nox-i doubt its single leds under each key...04:56
fusi[n900]there are 604:57
DocScrutinizerno, but 6 LEDS04:57
fusi[n900]doc im a shell noob :)04:57
lcukfusi[n900], easy is making the script to do it.  hard is integrating it into a complete app to make use of it - MohammadAG will show you the scripts to do KR04:57
fusi[n900]was hoping there was smt like init.d but for keyb events or smt04:58
DocScrutinizerfor I in 1 2 3 4 5 6; do echo 100 >LED$I/brightness; sleep 1; echo 0>LED$I/brightness; done04:58
fusi[n900]i have little grasp of linux :(04:58
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lcukso to light a single led you have a bit of a learning curve!04:59
* lcuk understands that dilemma04:59
DocScrutinizerfor linking to slider-open, search tmo for keyword playswoosh04:59
fusi[n900]cool thanks doc04:59
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DocScrutinizerfusi[n900]: anyway you'll run into race problems with mce, which is controlling kbd LEDS05:02
fusi[n900]could i pause/block mce?05:02
DocScrutinizeryou may want to assume all leds are 'on' and rather temporaray set /current to 0 and then back to it's original value05:03
DocScrutinizerfusi[n900]: stopping mce is possible but highly troublesome05:03
fusi[n900]are the led levels readable?05:03
DocScrutinizersure, just cat kb-led$I/brightness05:04
DocScrutinizeror /current for this purpose05:04
fusi[n900]im thinking mce would only turn them on/off when ambient light thesh is passed05:04
DocScrutinizerbut also only when slider opened05:05
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fusi[n900]i could just store them, do the lil anim then restore05:05
fusi[n900]im seeing things about dbus05:05
DocScrutinizerso whenever ambient light is low enough so you see your KR light, it will just get ramped up by mce the moment your slide open trigger fires05:05
fusi[n900]aye thers only 1 tevent05:06
DocScrutinizerexactly, wait 1s for mce to finish its cruft, store values, do your thing, then restore values to original05:06
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MohammadAGbut first, he'll paste a link to his facebook app
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fusi[n900]ill have a play and let u know :)05:07, good times,
fusi[n900]thanks for the help :)05:07
MohammadAGlcuk, I actually modified the vumeter app to pulsate the keyboard, just never released it (I think?)05:08
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DocScrutinizerfusi[n900]: just don't mess with current too much. It's unclear how much current the LEDs really can cope with. So you might kill them by setting ledN/current to a too high value05:08
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fusi[n900]they really do give you full controldont they :D05:09
DocScrutinizersometmes they do, yes :-P05:09
lcukon the plus side, the hot leds will be nice finger warmers05:09
fusi[n900]i came from a winmo touchpro >.<05:09
DocScrutinizerlcuk: not really05:09
MohammadAGlcuk, a better finger warmer; get kernel sources, while true; do make -j 9 && make clean; done05:10
DocScrutinizerlcuk: the flash LEDs will, not the kbd LEDs though05:10
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: exactly05:10
MohammadAGI use it as a room heater more than a finger warmer though05:11
MohammadAGit's cheaper than gas these days05:11
fusi[n900]yer savecpu is warning me regularly05:11
MohammadAGmy laptop goes up to 80C when compiling05:11
MohammadAGI'm pretty sure that shortens its life span, but by the time it dies I'm sure we'll have i12s and i20s around05:12
fusi[n900]i had a p3 1ghz that i topped 100c with :D05:12
fusi[n900]aah the good ol days05:12
fusi[n900]abit vp6 mobo <305:12
GAN900P3 pff05:13
GAN900I had a dual G505:13
GAN900One of the liquid cooled models.05:13
GAN900So hot Apple had to replace it with a Mac Pro for fear of lawsuits. *g*05:14
fusi[n900]i had a stock fan Mwah05:14
fusi[n900]oh dear05:14
GAN900What was everybody's takeaway from Intel's "3D" chip process announcement?05:14
fusi[n900]wasnt listening ;o05:15
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: next week meego meeting in Paris??05:16
fusi[n900]i can has to write script me go now byebye!05:16
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 00:44:26] <khorben> I'll be at their dev event next week in Paris05:17
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DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 00:44:53] <khorben> yeah during solutions linux05:17
GAN900Dunno. Is it an AppUp thing?05:18
DocScrutinizera wut?05:18
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 00:45:00] <khorben> intel appup05:19
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paulyhi i have n90005:47
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Natanaielcan u open ? it tells me Access Denied!09:20
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vldcnst403 here, too.09:27
Natanaiel3 of my catalogues are unavailable for this reason09:29
Natanaielnokia SSU, nokia applications & OVI09:29
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pupnik__   Homeland security is an illegal organization10:08
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Termanagood morning11:26
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pupnikPupnik "Evil Ram" version:
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rcgpupnik: i got no clue what this is.. looks pretty damn nice though ;)12:59
pupnikthat artist has a whole website full of amaaazing miniatures13:00
pupnik    about the size of a bottle cap13:01
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rcgsweet.. must be a hell of a lot of work.. gotta hit the road though... bbl13:03
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Natanaielcan anybody open ?14:00
NatanaielAccess denied for me!14:00
NatanaielI cant's access to Nokia SSU, Nokia applications & OVI14:00
NatanaielI don't know what's wrong with thease catalogues?!14:01
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ShadowJKyou always get access denied with the browser14:14
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NatanaielShadowJK: I always get access denied! with or without browser!14:33
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SpeedEvilyou're trying to download it how?14:34
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Natanaielthoses catalogues don't upgrade & I always get error 403 for them14:35
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Natanaielthey failed to refresh14:39
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cityLightshi, I am tring to use gobject.timeout_add in a python script and somehow it all loops14:46
cityLightscan anyone pls explain what I did wrong?14:46
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otwieraczIs available, to communicate from PC with my n810 through virtual com ports by usb cable?14:56
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robbiethe1stotwieracz: Yes, I think. How, I dunno.14:58
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otwieraczI want use mapping program basing on NMEA data send from PC.15:00
otwieraczusbserial at n810, I think.15:01
otwieraczBut what at Windows?15:01
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VenemoMohammadAG, ping15:21
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Guest73711So I'm about to reflash my phone as it's stuck in a reboot loop. I'm wondering what's the latest and greatest that I should flash? The forum has become quite a mess with the 200+ page long threads. How is the community version coming?15:41
otwieraczHow to get /dev/ttyUSB0 at n810?15:41
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VenemoGuest73711, see15:41
infobotflashing is probably
Venemoafter the reflash, you can install the Community SSU, but I'd recommend not to until a recent issue with Qt will be solved15:41
Guest73711Ok, see that's the type of thing I'd have no clue about.15:42
Guest73711So PR 1.3 then?15:45
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VenemoGuest73711, PR 1.3 Global Combined15:45
Guest73711Venemo: how usable is the community SSU? I'd image a problem with qt is going to cause pretty big dependency issues but assuming that gets resolved how workable is it?15:46
VenemoGuest73711, it is very nice stuff15:46
Guest73711Hmm I don't see "Global Combined" under
VenemoGuest73711, the only problem is that the updated Qt version (4.7.2) has a borked raster graphics system15:47
VenemoGuest73711, RX-51_2009SE_20.2010.36-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin 200174197 PR 1.3 version 20.2010.36-2 Latest Maemo 5 Global release for Nokia N90015:47
Guest73711Ok, cool.15:47
Guest73711And what eMMC should I use?15:48
VenemoRX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin 262090105 eMMC content 10.2010.13-2 Latest Vanilla version of the eMMC content for Nokia N90015:48
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Guest73711Ok, any current issues with the Power Kernel?15:50
Venemoif there are, I don't know about 'em15:51
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Guest73711Cool, thanks. I know last time I flashed there were issues with fcamera15:52
pupnikhey are there any more dev units for n900?15:53
pupniki have some people who deserve developer n900s15:53
pupnikX-Fade: Jaffa15:53
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markinfois there Obex server installed in n900?15:58
markinfoI get always in Blueman from my Notebook - Failed to open "obex://[5C:57:C8:77:DD:69]/"16:00
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Venemo[14:53] <pupnik> i have some people who deserve developer n900s -> contact qgil16:12
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pupnikwhere can i upload a mp316:24
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otwieraczHow to enable virtual COM communication between PC and n810 through bluetooth?16:42
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cityLightsSpeedEvil: do you use python?16:46
cityLightsI seek help16:46
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Jaffapupnik: The Council manage the Developer Device Queue, for which there is a wiki page17:10
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: what devices are you managing there?17:14
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pupnikJaffa: BE PART OF THE17:14
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK17:15
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pupniki hate the doofus murderers17:17
pupniki have so much awesome music to share17:17
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: you gotta hear my music17:19
pupnikdoc|home: you suck israeli cock17:19
cityLightsDocScrutinizer: was waiting17:19
cityLightscan you pls look at
DocScrutinizerpupnik: next one is a kickban17:19
pupnikjew ?17:20
DocScrutinizerthis is a worksafe channel17:20
pupnikreality free?17:20
cityLightsright, and I need gobject help17:20
DocScrutinizerand insults are not tolerated17:20
DocScrutinizeras I know you for ages now, I'll help you...17:21
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pupnikDocScrutinizer: i'll discuss things with you17:21
*** DocScrutinizer sets mode: +q pupnik!*@*17:21
DocScrutinizerping me if you got sober again17:22
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cehtehuhm .. popcorn time?17:24
DocScrutinizerdunno, my backscroll visible is like 30 lines17:25
DocScrutinizerand I'm just looking at it fist time since hours17:25
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 16:15:32] <pupnik> DocScrutinizer: DO YOU SUCK THE COCK17:26
DocScrutinizeris the first thing somebody says to me, before I even got my morning coffee17:26
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lolcatWhy is Android so flashy?17:33
lolcatThe N900 is the best communications device I know17:33
lolcatBut android looks so SLICK17:33
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: afaik there are no more devel devices available from Nokia. Quim last time said "this is the last devdev shipping ever" - ask GAN90017:35
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lolcatI didn't get a device from Nokia :(17:36
cehtehhaha .. nice hack17:36
DocScrutinizerlolcat: you're applying for a /nokia/troll cloak, you can't get both17:37
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DocScrutinizercehteh: SD card slot is good for a lot of things17:38
lolcatDocScrutinizer: Who is our GC?17:38
cehtehbut in many devices you have only one to fry :P17:38
dm8tbrthat's because it's simply SDIO :)17:38
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dm8tbrwifi is often connected by SDIO17:38
lolcatX-Fade: May I have a /nokia/opensourcesomething cloack?17:38
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DocScrutinizerlolcat: this is maemo, not nokia17:39
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: exactly17:40
lolcatIs there any issues in buying display N900's?17:40
DocScrutinizerthe dummy devices?17:41
DocScrutinizerI think SpeedEvil found they're largely useless, except for the stylus17:41
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lolcatNo, there is a shop in Norway who has two real N900eds used as display models17:44
lolcatTHey use real models so you can try them out in the shop17:44
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lolcatThey apparently have two17:45
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: It was a friend - but yes.17:47
SpeedEvilIt's 100% custom17:47
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DocScrutinizerlolcat: nothing special with these, except I would get me a fresh battery same time I buy any of those17:48
cityLightswhen I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first?17:50
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ShadowJKI saw display models in a shop. Some cheeky cunt had entered a lock code.17:51
DocScrutinizerlolcat: make sure you get them with original package and accessory, or a decent rabate on price17:51
DocScrutinizerheh, yeah. make sure there's no lockcode as well, or even more substantial down on price17:52
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psycho_oreosmake sure the accessory works and there's no accessory left out17:53
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SpeedEvilMaking sure it's not barred or locked too17:56
psycho_oreosthe display models I saw were all fake (you can easily tell they had silver case for the screen portion). Also the cheeky assistant installed a few things like frozen-bubble, IME input method and few other things (which screwed up the ability to bring up extra chars)17:56
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psycho_oreosfor me, I also make sure that I had the hw rev of 2204 not 210117:58
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DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: that's hard to accomplish18:03
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DocScrutinizeras those salesmen have no clue how to determine hw rev18:03
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psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, I'd demo the device prior to purchasing. They allow you do that when I was in HK (though they were rather amused at me tapping away on the console)18:04
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DocScrutinizerwell, if you can check the device before purchase, then no problem anyway, no?18:05
DocScrutinizerI was thinking along ebay purchase18:05
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psycho_oreosnot always :) but at least you've ruled most of the potential issues with N900 or better yet if they tried to sell you a fake N900 :D18:05
psycho_oreosahh those18:05
DocScrutinizerwasn't there an app called healthcheck or sth? ;-D18:06
lolcatDocScrutinizer: Should I buy both?18:07
DocScrutinizernever tested it, but I'd think it ought to be the exactly right app for this purpose18:07
DocScrutinizerlolcat: how do you think I could possibly answer that question?18:08
psycho_oreosahh yeah I've ran that program before, couldn't understand what was its usefulness when you could pretty much do everything from the console :D18:08
lolcatFirst time I bougth a display model it was without the carger. So I got a usb cable and some converter thing. It had a tiny scratch in the screen, and the stylus was gone (didn't notice the stylus untill afterwards) but I got it quite cheap.18:08
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DocScrutinizerwell, I'd like to get working devices that are <100$ anyway18:09
psycho_oreosmy second n900 didn't come with nokia A/V cable and headset doesn't work with n900 (it worked with n95-1 however on the contrary)18:09
DocScrutinizerI'd stop eating for a week to afford it18:10
lolcatLes than $100? I think that would be hard18:10
psycho_oreoswell with a functional n900 at this rate :)18:10
psycho_oreoslet alone running actual maemo OS not symbian dressed up as maemo18:10
lolcatI love the IM and skype integration18:11
lolcatEverything at one place18:11
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psycho_oreosI liked it because it was an actual linux powered phone, I didn't really care if it was nokia (and not anymore because of Elop).18:12
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lolcatIf only they could get the next one with the latest debian. 1gb ram, 1ghz cpu, a better gpu and I can't think of anything else my N900 needs18:16
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SpeedEvilScreen taking up a bit more orf the bezel might be nice.18:19
psycho_oreosonly time will tell18:19
SpeedEvilSome better solution to usb socket18:20
lolcatWe have USB hostmode, isn't that good enough?18:20
lolcatI just have to figure out where it is18:20
lolcatThe shop with the two N900's18:20
SpeedEvilI mean mechanical.18:20
lolcatThat I agree with. My N900 is dead for the second time because of it18:21
lolcaterr, thrid18:21
SpeedEvilThe 'easy' solution would be to make a low-profile cable18:21
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SpeedEvilThey even make one18:22
lolcatThat is why I am asking for a refund, to buy a 'new' N900 and have a few hundred extra for new batteries and such. And a new 5 year warrant will be nice (if the price is over $400, less and it will be 2 years).18:22
SpeedEvil5r year?18:22
lolcatBy law18:22
lolcatWich is awesome, since only a fraction of phones lasts longer than 5 years18:23
lolcatThey have 2 chances to repair the same error. On the thrid time it appears you can demand a refund / a new device.18:23
lolcatCould I just go into the shop, get a friend to set a lock code, and then demand a huge discount on one of them. THen I buy the other one at $400 so I get the 5 year warranty. Wichever breaks first I return on the 5 year warranty...18:25
lolcator on the two year probably18:25
GAN900You do realize that government-mandated warranty periods are just factored into the product price, right?18:25
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lolcatGAN900: Yes and? Most people don't utilize them. I argue every time, say I work customer support so I need to borrow a smartphone while mine is in for repairs.18:26
lolcatAnd I can have NO cost in having phones for the rest of my life18:27
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DocScrutinizerI *NEED* 8 cores at minimum!!1!111!!!!eleven!!118:29
lolcatDo maemo support dual-core?18:29
cehtehlinux supports smp18:29
lolcatI would think it does if you make a custom kernel18:29
SpeedEvillolcat: In principle if you had a dual-core ARM and kernel18:29
DocScrutinizer~wiki smp18:29
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'SMP' is a three letter abbreviation that can refer to the following: * In computing, Symmetric multiprocessing, the use of multiple CPUs. * In computing, Symbolic Manipulation Program, a computer algebra system and predecessor of Mathematica. * In cryptography, Socialist Millionaire Problem, a protocol for two parties to verify the identity of the remote party through the use of a shared ...18:29
lolcatSpeedEvil: Or just two of the cpu that is in it?18:30
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SpeedEvilYou'd need arbitrartion logic - the ARM does not support that18:30
DocScrutinizerfriggin fools18:30
cehtehwhich was the phone with one slow very power conserving cpu and one high performance core? asymetric multiprocessing18:30
cehtehi think i like this idea18:31
DocScrutinizerthose smp fanboys18:31
psycho_oreosif the kernel can be made SMP you still need apps to take advantage of SMP18:31
GAN900cehteh, sort of pointless with voltage and mhz scaling.18:31
cehtehGAN900: nope its not18:31
cehteheven scaling cant be work as well as a chip explicitly designed to run at slow speed18:31
DocScrutinizercehteh: that's been GTA03-v0.418:31
cehtehDocScrutinizer: i meant some commercial one recently released18:32
lolcatWhy does Nokia repeatedly shoot temselves in the leg?18:32
GAN900At the extremes, but when do you really need a 50MHz CPU running all the time?18:33
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cehtehGAN900: look at the n900 there are plenty of maintenance tasks which wake up the cpu18:33
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cehtehhandling interrupts, caring for watchdogs, sync filesystem, and such18:34
cehtehand you know that the 125Mhz mode isnt really power conserving at the normal cpu18:35
cehtehbut there are arm cores around 100mhz which work *very* power conserving much more than the cortex a718:36
lolcatCan't they do like the SandyBridge where you turn off the cores that isn't needed? That way dual-core won't use more18:36
GAN900lolcat, they do that and way more18:37
GAN900ARM designs have been doing Sandy Bridge powersaving since forever.18:38
DocScrutinizercehteh: we did even way more - our 2nd aux CPU been a really small one that handles all the peripheral things, and it been clocked at some 20NHz afaik18:38
cehtehnanohertz awesome :)18:38
DocScrutinizerit's called SmartReflex18:38
DocScrutinizerM ;-D18:38
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DocScrutinizeridle power consumption in the uW range18:39
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DocScrutinizerwould've served for a better replacement for LP5523 et al18:39
DocScrutinizereven check WiFi for relevant pkgs to wake main CPU18:40
lolcatHow much would it cost to make a new N900? With new debian, and the same features.18:40
* cehteh wonders what powering up a cpu and switching the frequencies alone costs without doing any work18:40
DocScrutinizerlol, only ~53mio18:40
lolcat~$53 millions?18:41
lolcatDid they use THAT much on the N900? Oo18:41
cehtehbtw any news on the gta04?18:42
lolcatI thougth, steal the motherboard, improve the usb port, change cpu/ram, add a new 4G modem. Get a better battery, and a hdmi port. Then you need software, a dialer, modem drivers, skype, and the maemo layout.18:42
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lolcatOh, and a new GPU18:42
lolcatWhat license is Maemo?18:43
GAN900A variety18:43
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cehtehlolcat: the hardware is very tightly integrated you cant just exchange some parts18:44
DocScrutinizerand you'll NEVER get skype18:45
cehtehcpu, dsp, ram are on one die .. the gpu maybe as well i dont know, DocScrutinizer prolly knows18:45
* lolcat is frustrated for the lack of announcments regarding N900'eds sequell18:45
DocScrutinizercehteh: is as wee18:45
cehtehis baseband on another die?18:45
lolcat4G isn't really a big deal18:46
cehtehwith gps ..18:46
DocScrutinizerRAPUYAMA (+ GAZOO) BB5 modem chipser18:46
DocScrutinizerthe main problem is the sourcing18:48
GAN900So, any bets on what the N950 is running?18:48
GAN900If it's not OMAP363018:48
DocScrutinizeryou simply can't buy small amounts of those nice new SOCs18:48
lolcatGAN900: 1GHz dual core, 1GB ram, 60GB ssd, 4G, and mini hdmi18:49
cehtehany bets if the n950 will be withdrawn? :)18:49
GAN900lolcat, good for you.18:49
GAN900cehteh, I wouldn't be surprised at this point.18:49
cehtehhey its nokia ... nothing surprises me18:49
lolcatGAN900: They should have made it like an oQo, they have pretty impressive specs.18:49
GAN900Given the announcements that'd been reversed over the past few years.18:49
DocScrutinizerask timeless18:49
DocScrutinizeraiui he's no Nokian anymore18:50
lolcatWhere can you chat to Nokia people?18:50
GAN900DocScrutinizer, oh?18:50
cehtehis stefan kost still at nokia?18:50
GAN900The MeeGo Devices team is actually making commits to WP7, they just don't realize it.18:50
DocScrutinizermaybe I mixed sth, but I seem to recall sth that's not been a dream18:51
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GAN900"Man, this Qt stuff looks a lots like .NET. . . ."18:51
DocScrutinizercehteh: who's Stefan Kost?18:51
cehtehi dont care about nokia .. and my next smartphone will be a free linux again, if not from nokia then from someone else (not sony :P)18:51
cehtehDocScrutinizer: gstreamer guy18:52
lolcatDoes Nokia own the trademark N950?18:52
lolcatcehteh: Wich one?18:52
cehtehlolcat: i dont plan to buy one soon, my n900 still works18:52
cehtehi decide when the n900 falls apart18:52
GAN900cehteh, that's the problem. Who is the someone else?18:52
cehtehgta05 :)18:52
lolcatI can't wait to get my new N900 back18:52
DocScrutinizerI plan to buy a 3rd N900 to make sure this doesn't change next time18:52
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DocScrutinizerI already dropped it one time, and one time dropped, saved from falling into street drain but then stepped on it. Still works but a scary statistic for 18 months usage18:54
bekozwho else makes good free linux phones?18:55
cehtehhehe mine dropped on the stree while biking18:55
cehtehmy self build case worked, prevented any damage18:56
bekozthat just bites18:56
lolcatbekoz: N900 is free?18:56
DocScrutinizerphoto or it didn't happen18:56
SpeedEvilcehteh: Was thisthat wierrd polycarbonate one?18:56
bekozyeah I have one18:56
cehtehSpeedEvil: yes18:56
bekozJust wondering18:56
lolcatI don't know any other real linux phones that are usable18:57
bekozI couldn't find any others18:57
cehtehfor now the n900 is certainly the best18:57
SpeedEvilThere are open-source phones - but not linux.18:57
bekozti will be a shame if this one ever dies on me and I can't replace it18:57
cehtehthere are some expensive niche products18:57
DocScrutinizerthere are open-source linux phones, but obsolete ;-D18:58
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SpeedEvilOpen-source phone.18:58
SpeedEvilNot linux though.18:58
DocScrutinizerthere are also anti-vendor ports18:58
bekozyeah but how long will they stay open-source18:58
DocScrutinizere.g on palm pre, HTC dunnowhat, milestone iirc18:59
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cehteh is ROAD still alive?18:59
DocScrutinizerduh, it ever been?18:59
bekoz - LOL SpeedEvil18:59
cehtehyes i seen them18:59
bekozhard to carry18:59
cehtehtheh had real working hardware18:59
cehtehbut underpowered and too expensive18:59
DocScrutinizeryeah, for 9999 gold19:00
cehtehon the good side they wanted to make a very rugged phone for workers and so on19:00
dangergrrli know people who are very happy with their ols openmoko phones19:00
fluxrecently I discussed with friends, that it would be great to have a rotary voip phone19:00
cehtehbut i dont know how they progressed19:00
dangergrrlbut openmoko is old now19:00
fluxyou could rotate in the ip digits..19:00
DocScrutinizerobsolete as I said19:00
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: ^^^19:00
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer19:00
infobothmm... docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko19:00
cehtehif i had expected the gta04 upgrade path some years ago i would have buyed a openmoko instead a n90019:01
GAN900Portrait phones are useless.19:01
DocScrutinizer"phones" w/o hw kbd are useless as pocket PC19:02
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DocScrutinizerhell, I'd not even like to use a tablet/pad19:02
cehtehaha ... ok19:03
cehtehanother one bites the dust :/19:03
DocScrutinizertry gizmo4you19:03
DocScrutinizerprolly vanished as well19:04
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dangergrrli'm really considering getting a handykey twiddler2 for use with my n900 except i wonder how using usb host mode would effect battery life #1 and #2 when i sit and use the n900 i'm almost always plugged into power so using a usb kb would prevent that19:04
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cehtehthats the problem .. you cant do this business as startup with small series19:04
cehtehyou can not compete19:04
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: NAK for #219:05
dangergrrli'm already having an issue with my planned use for mine in that the fm transmitter won't work while charging19:05
cehtehso over & out19:05
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infobotit has been said that hostmode-powered is
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: there's also a workaround for the FMTX-while-charging issue19:06
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dangergrrli was looking at a 'car cassette adaptor' that lists n810 but not n900 as supported but i'm not sure the 3mm plug is the same19:07
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dangergrrloh, i should look that up19:07
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bekozI just use a generic casette adapter19:08
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: car cassette adapters are plain headsets for all that matters19:08
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bekozworks just fine19:08
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DocScrutinizerbekoz: ack19:08
bekozworks great actually19:08
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DocScrutinizershould work flawlessly with N810 as well as N90019:09
DocScrutinizeras well as any arbitrary "walkman" type device19:10
dangergrrlwell i know the n900 provided headset i get mono if i plug it into the pc, seems it should work, maybe my pc headphone jack is a bit off spec19:10
dangergrrlso i thought there was a slight alignment issue19:10
DocScrutinizerN900 is compatible to standard 3pole 3.5mm plugs for headphones19:10
dangergrrlso the $2 cassette adaptor from amazon should be fine19:11
DocScrutinizerNB there are also "hacks" to make FMTX work "always"19:12
dangergrrli'm gonna try one more time with a charger at radio shack because i'm already $20 invested there, nokia branded chargers actually cost less than what i've spent on a charger that fails19:12
dangergrrlthe fmtx works always hack i would like better19:12
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DocScrutinizerask MohammadAG if we got that in CSSU19:13
dangergrrli like to keep the n900 in my fairing pocket and carry it inside with me when i stop, less wires == better19:13
DocScrutinizerI think it was of the class that can't easily get deployed via extras(-devel)19:13
MohammadAGnah, it's illegal to distributed patched binaries19:14
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DocScrutinizerok then19:14
dangergrrlyou have to hack it yourself?19:14
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you at least got a link?19:14
bekozfor informational purposes ofcourse19:15
DocScrutinizerhail jacekowski19:15
DocScrutinizera fsckng genius19:16
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merlin1991X-Fade: ping19:16
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: it's weekend19:17
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merlin1991there's always a chance :D19:17
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DocScrutinizergetting less of a chance month by month19:17
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DocScrutinizerI'm actually waiting for several of Nokia infra getting orphaned19:18
MohammadAGlol @
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DocScrutinizerbuildhosts, IRC...19:19
merlin1991wtf MohammadAG that ad is fail :D19:19
dangergrrlawesome, i will very much use that, thanks again DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG  :)19:19
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dangergrrlthe jacekowski thing does exactly what i wanted19:20
DocScrutinizerspread the word! maemo not dead, just nobody knows how alive it is19:20
dangergrrlother than not turning the fm transmitter off at random times19:20
dangergrrli'm honest with people when i recommend the n90019:21
dangergrrlmaemo support form nokia is dead19:21
dangergrrlbut the community still lives19:21
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DocScrutinizerbut honestly there's never been too much :-P19:21
DocScrutinizer(maemo support from Nokia)19:22
dangergrrlthe community is what i bought the device for19:22
DocScrutinizerand community is pretty much here on IRC19:23
dangergrrli still don't know if it's just nokia were clueless or there is no way to make money with a device this open19:23
DocScrutinizerhistory will tell19:23
DocScrutinizerNokia forgot they are a HARDWARE manufacturer19:23
dangergrrlamazon is back up to asking $550us for n900, i got mine at $350 from amazon in december19:24
DocScrutinizerthey tried to play the content provider game19:24
DocScrutinizerand failed epically19:24
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GAN900dangergrrl, Nokia is clueless.19:24
GAN900Run by a bunch of arrogant Finnish dinosaurs.19:25
RST38hMoo, ladies and gentlemen19:25
dangergrrli've been using mappero and really see no reason i would use ovi maps instead except maybe for offline mode19:25
dangergrrli like the google router better19:26
DocScrutinizerif you're going to make money with open phones, you won't play the content provider game to add value. Your added value is good documentation of the HW so your customers are really free19:26
dangergrrlthe ovi router has no option for motorcycle routes19:26
dangergrrlgoogle []avoid highways gives nice motorcycle routes19:26
DocScrutinizercustomers will even pay more for same hw, when it comes with a warranty for open docs19:26
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DocScrutinizerof course not joe average-user19:27
dangergrrlthat's my only gripe even going to this is the warantee is basicly useless19:27
DocScrutinizerbut those who are concerned about their freedom19:27
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dangergrrlif you actually use the n900 you are going to void the warantee in under a day19:28
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dangergrrlwhy even say it has one year warantee when the warantee is void if you use the device the way most users will19:28
DocScrutinizernot really, and also that's not what I referred to by "warranty"19:29
DocScrutinizervoiding warranty starts with OCing19:29
DocScrutinizernot with using whatever sw19:29
dangergrrlthe hardware waranee is void if you install the power kernel at all i think even if you don't overclock19:29
DocScrutinizernot really19:29
dangergrrloh, because i have it installed19:30
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dangergrrlbut only oc if something doesn't work19:30
DocScrutinizerdoesn't really matter unless your failure pattern is OC caused19:31
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DocScrutinizerand believe me, EE can tell what's due to OC and what is a clear warranty case19:31
dangergrrli've had one or two video files that have stalls unless i oc19:31
dangergrrlmy copy of lain19:32
dangergrrlwhich i can't read the subs on without using the ntsc out cable anyhow :)19:32
DocScrutinizerso while Nokia probably can tell you installed the PK, they usually won't mind as long as your warranty case is clearly unrelated19:33
dangergrrlthat's fine then19:34
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KilrooWatching some of my friends with their ipads has got me considering both installing nitdroid to my n900 emmc, and shopping around for tablets that can theoretically dual-boot android and meego.19:34
DocScrutinizeryeah, but NB it's easy to kill the device in a number of ways, no matter whether with PK, nitdroid, or plain stock kernel19:35
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dangergrrlnothing at all like a hacked psp then if you send a psp in hacked to sony they won't fix it whether the failure is hacking related or not19:35
GAN900DocScrutinizer, think they've got EEs in their repair centers? :P19:35
nid0dangergrrl: a consideration is also how much the service centres care - if your device is dead and the moisture strips arent flagged and it hasnt clearly been dropped, chances are theyll just bin it and send you a new one19:36
DocScrutinizerGAN900: I think they got instructions at repair center about which falure patterns to send to special care EE department19:36
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DocScrutinizernid0: ^^^ to you as well19:37
dangergrrlsony has a policy to check what firmware is on the device for psp if they can read the flash at all but they actually replaced the water damaged psp i sent them19:37
dangergrrlbut sony obviously does not care about your freedom :)19:38
psychologehas someone know how to use dbus or x-termini command close current application?19:38
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DocScrutinizergood question19:38
nussehi there19:38
cityLightswhen I issue this command gobject.timeout_add(wait_duration,callback) does it issue the callback straight away or does it wait first?19:39
nusseshould the sdk install work on the latest ubuntu? failes for me, eg creating the sbox group19:39
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dangergrrlbut if certain thinks are known to burn up when oc too much it should be easy to look for those19:39
DocScrutinizerthere's a button "close current task" on powerbutton menu. I think investigating there you could find an answer19:39
Kilroo...wouldn't a terminal command to close the current application close
trxhe wants to execute that cmd from the program itself i guess19:40
DocScrutinizercityLights: of course it will wait first19:40
cityLightsthanks, I need to find my bug then19:40
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psychologei want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current,when current on full screen19:41
cityLightsI am three days , trying to understand what is wrong19:41
cityLightsthe program is not that big19:41
dangergrrli actually would like to play with meego, can you install it fully to a microsd and boot it with flasher?19:41
dangergrrli have a 4gb microsd i'm not using19:41
dangergrrl(i know the flasher recovery boot thing is actually a meego kernel)19:42
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: yes19:42
KilrooI wish my 32gb microsd weren't fail.19:42
psychologei want use "shortcutd" set long press focus key to close current application ,when current application on full screen19:42
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dangergrrli should look into that19:43
DocScrutinizerpsychologe: check the powerbutton sub-function that does exactly that19:43
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psychologei think it's quicker faster19:44
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dangergrrland also figure out how best to get madde under gentoo/sabayon but i don't know how to rewrap for portage19:45
KilrooTriple-booting maemo, meego and nitdroid is still a pain in the nether regions, right?19:45
DocScrutinizernitdroid *is* a pain on booting19:45
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KilrooWonder if anything will ever come of that briefly-mentioned idea of making multiboot and uboot play nice together.19:46
dangergrrlnitdroid seems neat but last i checked half the hardware was still unsupported19:46
DocScrutinizeras those lazy ignorant maintainers of nitdroid refuse to care about proper integration into uBoot, and still rely on fsckdup deprecated multiboot that breaks things for everybody else except nitdroid19:47
DocScrutinizersee, meego works with uBoot. Nitdroid could as well, if only they'd care19:48
DocScrutinizerno need for multiboot really19:48
DocScrutinizermultibood is a genius friggin nasty hack19:48
KilrooI thought at one point I saw a post where someone claimed to have gotten nitdroid to boot with uboot...but there was never any explanation of how so I'm assuming I misunderstood.19:48
DocScrutinizerthat's prone to break the whole system and make you have to reflash, on every single boot and even more any update19:49
DocScrutinizerhonestly if you're interested in andidiot, get yourself a decent cheap andridiot device19:50
dangergrrlis this the same multiboot that is the standard grub file format or am i thinking of something else?19:50
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dangergrrlthere seems to be a community thing around the hacked nook color19:51
DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: completely different thing. They FLASH KERNEL on each boot :-O19:51
dangergrrlyes the grub thing is just some tweaks on a standard ELF file iirc19:52
KilrooYeah, I was looking at some information about the nook color to see if it could run meego...I have a friend who was about to root hers the last time I saw her. Apparently the answer is no, though. I'm considering an archos.19:52
DocScrutinizerinterrupt boot (aka kernel flashing) -> borked, reflash.  Update kernel of maemo ) -> borked, reflash.19:53
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bekozdangergrrl: what is google router?19:53
DocScrutinizeruninstall nitdroid -> borked, reflash.19:53
dangergrrlsounds no fun19:53
otwieraczIs this available to use gcc 4.x in Diablo scratchbox SDK?19:53
dangergrrlgoogle router? no clue...19:54
DocScrutinizer boot multiboot (aka flash kernel) -> uBoot borked19:54
bekozweren't yopu talking about it earlier19:54
dangergrrli don't think so19:54
nid0you mean their travel routing?19:55
dangergrrlyou can choose to use the google map router in mappero if you like19:55
bekozKewl thanx19:55
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DocScrutinizerergo -> stay AWAY from multiboot, so stay away from nitdroid! Seriously19:55
dangergrrland if you choose both avoid highways and avoid tolls it gives great cross country routes that avoid superhighways19:56
bekozthat's what I was looking for19:56
dangergrrlideal for motorcycle rides19:56
DocScrutinizer...until those nitdroid fools care to sanitize their boot process so it's in line with what maemo and meego do19:56
dangergrrli HATE the superhighways in cities19:57
dangergrrlon a bike it's no fun19:57
bekozsame here19:57
bekoznothing but concrete19:57
bekozto see19:57
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dangergrrlstop and go on a bike is a pain too19:57
dangergrrlcoming home from the store here i drive 20-30mph through a neighborhood to avoid stop lights19:58
dangergrrlat least i'm moving19:58
dangergrrlthe google router also does bicycle for usa and canada now20:00
bekozHow do you choose Google router ?20:00
bekozor is it just the maps?20:01
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RST38hProper (not Maemo) Ovi Maps also do that20:01
dangergrrlin mappero20:02
RST38hThey are surprisingly good too, tried them on an E7, best GPS I ever had20:02
dangergrrlwhen you click 'find a route to...' after tapping on the map20:02
dangergrrlthe bottom option is 'Router'20:02
dangergrrlthen the button on the right that says options brings up different options for different routers20:03
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dangergrrlodd, didn't list public transport, maybe because i picked a highway destination20:05
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dangergrrlmappero brings in espeak and says it gives voice notifications but i've never heard it do so20:09
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DocScrutinizerI did20:09
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: seems mappero espeak language is related to kbd-mapping you set20:10
DocScrutinizerand a lot of mappings have no matching espeak vocabulary20:10
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Venemo_N900dangergrrl, there was a TMO thread about the developer requesting sound files in various languages20:13
Venemo_N900I'm not sure how far they got at the end20:13
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infobotTomorrow will probably suck too.20:13
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infobotTomorrow will probably suck too.20:14
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DocScrutinizerthere's quite some bits I think should have gathered in mappero - settings - general rather than hardcoded or linked to such nonsense like kbd mapping20:18
dangergrrli flashed from world, no idea which keyboard mapping i have, is "C" a valid answer?  echo $LANG says 'en_US' that's a good sign20:18
Venemo_N900it's open source, feel free to contribute20:19
Venemo_N900I'm talking about contributing, not forking20:20
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N900: I know, but I've not enough clones (aka fork(me) )to contribute to all the projects I have suggestions for20:20
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Venemo_N900yo DocScrutinizer20:20
bekozwish mapero brought in addresses from contacts20:20
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Venemo_N900DocScrutinizer, yeah, sometimes I feel like that too - there should be another me who does the hard stuff and then I could just focus on improving the software I have ideas for20:21
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DocScrutinizeranyway, saturday night fever ("ooops, need to buy some $food...") - l8r20:22
dangergrrli must have something misconfigured20:22
dangergrrli didn't even hear interlingua20:22
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DocScrutinizerlol @ interlingua. What a funny useless idea20:23
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dangergrrli like the idea of lojban but haven't bothered to learn it20:27
dangergrrlit is parsable with lex/yacc though :)20:27
dangergrrlprobably a silly idea for a language for humans to speak but i like it (the idea)20:28
* DocScrutinizer kicks own ass for checking another detail rather than hurrying for shopping20:28
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DocScrutinizergeneral advice regarding maemo-OS:
DocScrutinizerbye, now for real20:36
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DocScrutinizer(also a funny way to hide files)20:41
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DocScrutinizeronly way to access this -rw-r--r--    1 root     root            0 Jan  2  2009 x   is to umount the MyDocs20:42
DocScrutinizerif espeak/mappero is going to install voice files to MyDocs/* (a sane concept) that this will fail epicaly if N900 is in ass-rage mode20:43
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derfThough that'll cause lots of fun if mappero is running while you plug the device into your PC.20:44
derfI enjoyed Android's solution, which was to forcibly unmount the SD card when you do that, causing any programs using a file on it to crash.20:45
MohammadAGmy X keeps disappearing every now and then :/20:47
DocScrutinizerderf: that's exactly what maemo in fact does with MyDocs20:47
DocScrutinizersee that pastebin20:47
psychologemappero has a defect , can't search place used google data20:47
DocScrutinizernah, not exactly, it fails to umount then20:47
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derfThough one thing that can be said for the Android approach: it's easy to find out what programs were using the SD card when you want to mount it on the PC.20:48
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derfI've given up and rebooted my N900 before.20:49
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DocScrutinizerok, too late :-S20:57
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GAN900Usually tracker is the culprit20:59
DocScrutinizerfuser     -k        kill processes accessing the named file (not on messybox shit)21:00
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DocScrutinizeractually I'm missing psmisc-gnu21:12
jacekowskii've seen domebody mentioned me21:13
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DocScrutinizerThe following packages will be REMOVED:21:15
DocScrutinizer  busybox-symlinks-psmisc cell-modem-ui21:15
DocScrutinizerThe following NEW packages will be installed:21:15
DocScrutinizer  psmisc21:15
DocScrutinizero.O  D-:21:15
chxcell-modem-ui does not sound good21:16
DocScrutinizerand I wonder how the heck installing psmisc can cause cellmodem-ui do vanish21:17
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ShadowJKapt-cache show on both psmisc and cell-modem-ui?21:18
ShadowJKIt's probably because one is installing debian package in maemo :P21:18
DocScrutinizerjust doing that21:18
DocScrutinizerdidn't help other than giving me headache21:20
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DocScrutinizerapt-cache show cell-modem-ui is unbearable21:21
DocScrutinizer*I HATE MESSYBOX*21:22
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ShadowJKI can't even see a psmisc21:31
DocScrutinizeractually I can't figure how to use messybox fuser for *anything*21:32
renatohi guys I have already uploaded the pyside package twice to the fremantle builder, I have received the e-mail with the OK log, but the package did not appear on repository21:32
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# apt-cache policy psmisc21:33
DocScrutinizer  Version table:21:34
ShadowJKcell-modem-ui depends on busybox-symlinks-psmisc, so whoever packaged psmisc fucked up if he didn't put it elsewhere to avoid conflicts, or tested it functional with the system so that you could have had a Replaces21:34
DocScrutinizer     22.6-1 021:34
DocScrutinizer        500 fremantle-1.3/free Packages21:34
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 20:12:39] <DocScrutinizer> actually I'm missing psmisc-gnu21:34
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DocScrutinizerrenato: are you maintainer of pyside pkg?21:37
kwtmquick question: it says PR 1337 version 7 has "Landscape orientation lock".  Does this include "Portrait orientation lock"?  If not, does a subsequent version have it?  (I am at v6.5, trying not to upgrade too quickly, in order to avoid usability bugs)21:40
DocScrutinizermy 7 doesn't have portait lock21:41
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Jaffakwtm: THere is no portrait orientation lock yet, no.21:41
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Jaffakwtm: is accurate and up-to-date21:41
DocScrutinizerjust this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set21:41
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kwtmOk, thanks.  Wanted to make sure I didn't misunderstand.21:42
DocScrutinizerI'd actually love to keep things with portrait like they were in maemo stock21:43
DocScrutinizerwell, I know I'm not exactly mainstream with this notion21:43
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kwtmWait, so "this friggin useless icon in status bar when landscape lock is set" means that when I rotate from portrait to landscape, it will rotate (since it's unlocked) into landscape mode, whereupon it locks since it is now landscape-locked?  That would actually be useful to me.21:43
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DocScrutinizersorry you lost me21:44
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DocScrutinizergood idea indeed21:45
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kwtmJaffa: WHen you say that wiki "is accurate and up-to-date", it still doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, including about bugs.  I notice, in version 8, a note that "Fixed bug #11831: Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover ", so now I'm leery of version 9 coming out with "Fixed bug: N900 no longer explodes when you double-tap."  Right now v6.5 seems fairly usable except for this ridiculous tendency to rotate when21:48
povbotBug Removal of mp-fremantle-*-pr breaks apt autoremover21:48
kwtmthe device is still 20 degrees from the horizontal21:48
Jaffakwtm: You should look at the bug reports: "breaks apt autoremover" has been in there since the first version21:48
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kwtmJaffa: Ok, so now I need to look at bug reports.  How long to go through 11831 of them, since there are apparently that many?21:49
Jaffakwtm: If you're not willing to test, don't test. Wait for the stable version - and, indeed, start a conversation on maemo-developers about how and/when that could be21:49
Jaffakwtm: Those are all the Maemo bugs. You're extrapolating from a line in a changelog that a bug in the CSSU is fixed, and assume it was introduced in the previous version. That's almost certainly not true in the majority of cases.21:50
kwtmJaffa: I have already asked maemo developers about that.  In the meanwhile, I wanted to see if the landscape lock included portrait lock.21:50
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Jaffakwtm: And if it did, it'd say "landscape/portrait orientation lock" or just "orientation lock"21:51
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Jaffakwtm: "asked maemo developers about that"?21:51
kwtmJaffa: You are right that it would mention "portrait lock", but I wanted to see if the portrait lock had already been introduced in an earlier version, or otherwise was somehow subsumed into that.21:51
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kwtmJaffa: Meanwhile, what I meant about the Changelog is that there may be changes not listed in the log.21:52
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kwtmJaffa: I continue to be wary about the text highlighting bug that DocScrutinizer mentioned, for which he (and now I) has been avoiding going beyond v7.21:53
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Jaffakwtm: Well, it doesn't look like the Qt upgrade is going to be reverted so it's a question of drumming up Qt developers to investigate & fix.21:54
kwtmDocScrutinizer: I see that v7, which you have, is listed as having "Improved press effect " whereas in the next version, it says "Reverted improved zoom on press effect. "   Is the "press effect" the same as "zoom on press effect"?  If yes, then what is this "press effect" which the developers decided to revert in the next version?21:55
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DocScrutinizerno idea, seems you had to enable it in transitions.ini or sth, which is fine for me21:56
kwtmJaffa: Ok. I will hold off on anything beyond v7 then, till a fix is in.21:56
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Thanks.  That's good news.  Up to v7 I go, then.21:56
Jaffakwtm: Kinda breaks the covenant of being able to test the damned thing and get it stabilised, but <shrug/>21:57
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kwtmJaffa: Well, I do believe that further testing of versions that are not the newest is also of value, partly because not all features are updated in the next version, and partly because I seem to have a knack for digging up bugs in the darndest places.22:00
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DocScrutinizerin my notion cssu is already halfway down the "introduce new bleeding edge feature, fix one bug, introduce 4 new ones - nobody cares about a testing not to mention stable branche due to missing manpower" road of no return22:03
kwtmIn an unrelated question, how would I tell HAM to check for updates every 30 years instead of the default which is too frequent for my taste (and connection and battery)?22:04
DocScrutinizersee cistomizing-maemo wiki22:04
kwtmwill search. thx22:04
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RST38hSomebody should really downgrade Modest in the CSSU: it crashes way too often22:07
DocScrutinizer(road of no return) that's the path that SHR is following since like 2 years now, and it started quite like cssu does right now22:07
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kwtmDocScrutinizer: thanks, got the auto updates frequency tweak.22:07
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SazpaimonOops! Google Chrome could not connect to talk.maemo.org22:08
Sazpaimonoh bou22:08
kwtmSHR, DocScrutinizer?22:08
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DocScrutinizerthe most popular OM FR distro22:09
kwtmDocScrutinizer: Useful info!  Thanks.22:09
kwtmOkay, I'm off.  Bye all!22:10
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compengiwhat's the sudo password on maemo?22:11
Guest24091So I installed a crud load of software on my n900 about a month ago. Bad idea, it crashed and went into a reboot loop. Since then I've reflashed 5 times. Every time I reflash it works until I reboot and then it goes back into a reboot loop. Any ideas what would cause this?22:11
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Sicelo_multiboot, perhaps Guest24091 ?22:13
RST38hGuest: Have you installed any dual loaders, nitroid, meego, etc?22:13
GAN900flash emmc?22:14
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DocScrutinizermeh, don't install nitdroid/multibot22:14
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Guest24091At one point I think I installed nitroid, but that was many flashes ago (both eMMC and FIASCO)22:14
Guest24091If that's the problem is there something else I have to do to get rid of it?22:15
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DocScrutinizerreflash, then on restoring your "data" from backup-app make sure you don't install nitdroid/multiboot again22:16
DocScrutinizerthere's a comfortable per-app selection option in backup-restore22:16
Guest24091I actually haven't been restoring anything from the backup app. Just using exchange to sync all of my google contacts, installing fcamera and a few widgets.22:17
DocScrutinizerso you should try to reboot before you do that22:17
DocScrutinizerand see if that works22:17
Guest24091This time it crashed in the middle of installing apps via fast app manager and then went into a reboot loop.22:18
renato_filhoDocScrutinizer, yes I'm the maintainer  of PySide pkg22:18
Guest24091Worth a try.22:18
DocScrutinizeryou as wel might do wrong by flashing eMMC after fiasco/rootfs, and so destroying /opt22:18
DocScrutinizerwell, it wouldn't boot out of flashing mode after you do that22:19
Guest73711No, I'm definitely flashing the eMMC first.22:20
DocScrutinizerso check if you can boot a 'virgin' system several times22:20
Guest73711(I can follow directions once I've been bitten by not following them)22:20
DocScrutinizerthen come back and report22:20
Guest73711Ok, just rewiped and am doing that.22:20
DocScrutinizerone of your widgets may make hildon reboot22:21
DocScrutinizerI had that once22:21
Guest73711(App search and Touch search?)22:21
compengiwhat's the sudo password on maemo?22:22
compengii want to issue apt-get22:22
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DocScrutinizer#~> root22:22
JaffaDocScrutinizer: And what's your proposal to fix that situation, then? :-p22:22
DocScrutinizerJaffa: hard to give good advice. By al means care about a testing branch that's focused on usability/stability rather than bleeding edge22:23
compengiDocScrutinizer, i want to issue apt-get update, what should i do?22:23
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DocScrutinizercompengi: type `root>ENTER>whatever-apt-get-you-like....'22:24
DocScrutinizeris the magic word22:24
DocScrutinizernot sudo22:24
compengiit says not found22:24
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Guest73711Wait, seriously? No need to install gainroot or rootsh?22:25
DocScrutinizerroot is kinda short for "sudo gainroot"22:25
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DocScrutinizercompengi: install rootsh pkg22:25
DocScrutinizertry sudo gainroot first22:25
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DocScrutinizerif it says "enable R&D to brick your ..." then you need to install rootsh pkg22:26
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: I don't disagree, but it's a question of trying to steer people towards the goal of releasing something stable.22:26
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renato_filhoDocScrutinizer, Who I can ask for more info about these packages? Only the i386 package was uploaded to repository22:26
DocScrutinizeryou need to have milestones and developers assigned to the task22:26
DocScrutinizeryou need feature freeze dates22:27
DocScrutinizeryou even might need to freeze -devel work until -testing is done22:27
compengiDocScrutinizer, my package manager is hallucinating, it says there are no protocols configured and it happened when i stopped updating portage process22:28
DocScrutinizerumm, no idea22:28
DocScrutinizercompengi: disable all catalogs except extras (and the Nokia catalogs of course)22:29
MohammadAGZogG, ping22:29
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: for now probably 7 is a good base for a testing or even stable release to easy users' access to cssu22:30
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: No-one's volunteered to organise and pitch that though, AFAICT.22:31
DocScrutinizerthat's the problem that will kill cssu if not tackled NOW22:31
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: If no-one's got the itch enough to scratch, maybe it'll stay niche then because the community is really too small to sustain any such project.22:33
DocScrutinizercssu will become the playground of the devels rather than a valid option for all users22:33
DocScrutinizeryeah, exactly that'll going to happen22:34
DocScrutinizeras it did on SHR22:34
DocScrutinizerthere are so many users not even aware of IRC or CSSU and just disappointed about bugs in maemo5proper22:36
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 21:08:51] <DocScrutinizer> http://shr-project.org22:36
DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 21:09:12] <DocScrutinizer> the most popular OM FR distro22:36
DocScrutinizerCSSU is targeted to give hope to those users, instant relieve22:37
DocScrutinizerthey don't care about FOSS replacement for cam or mediaplayer, first instance22:37
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I've been trying to get the people who can help polish it to help, but little repsonse22:37
DocScrutinizerwhat they care about is broken enter key in shell, CPU rape on catorize22:38
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Both of which are fixed, of course22:38
DocScrutinizeryeah, in CSSU they are of course22:38
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DocScrutinizerbut nobody of those 'noobs' will go for an unstable cssu that gives them more new problems than it fixes22:39
DocScrutinizerand FUD is another big factor here22:39
DocScrutinizerthey won't even go for ANY cssu as long as it's labled '-devel'22:40
MohammadAG the only two critical bugs that need to be resolved ASAP are the QTBUG 18720 and the modest crashes22:40
DocScrutinizerlot of N900 users NEED a working phone22:40
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: fine, them make a roadmap: fix those two bugs, feature freeze, test, move to stable22:40
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's not like I'm not trying to get it fixed22:42
Venemohey again guys22:42
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: the feature freeze is the key bit22:42
VenemoDocScrutinizer ++ ++ ++22:43
trxis TMO down?22:43
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, can I make phone calls with SHR?22:43
DocScrutinizerfeature freeze NOW, make a milestone for stable-rc0, fix the known bugs, test, publish22:43
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: on some devices yes22:44
VenemoDocScrutinizer, N900?22:44
DocScrutinizernot yet, but we're close22:44
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DocScrutinizertook like 5 months to get shit sorted, but last 2 weeks there's been great progress22:44
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I fully agree, but the fact is, Qt bugs seem to be assigned to /dev/null22:45
DocScrutinizerthen go for 722:45
DocScrutinizerdeclare that version your feature freeze22:45
VenemoDocScrutinizer, btw, is SHR an abbreviation?22:45
DocScrutinizerreview, fix things that need to be fixed, then test and publish that one22:45
DocScrutinizerStable Hybrid Release22:46
Venemo"Hybrid release"?22:46
DocScrutinizerhybrid like meego22:46
DocScrutinizerunion of old OM2008 and FSO22:46
infobotwell, iirc is "if I recall correctly"22:47
infobotfud is probably Fear, uncertainty, doubt. Originally invented by IBM, but now used by many others. or YAFA. or Fscking Useless Data or otherwise known as false information or mindless facts with no backup facts or
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DocScrutinizertrx: yeah, tmo down or dog slow22:48
MohammadAGdown for me too22:49
DocScrutinizeranyway, RL is calling22:49
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DocScrutinizergo CSSU crew, goooo, GOOOOOOO!! :-D22:50
RST38hMohammad:Please, do something about Modest22:50
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RST38hMohammad: If it is impossible to fix, downgrade it: right now it coredumps on many emails22:50
DocScrutinizerdeclare rev7 the base for stable feature freeze. Modest been ok in 7 afaik22:51
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MohammadAGSc0rpius, thoughts?22:51
SpeedEvilOr if it reliably coredumps - do the bisect thing22:51
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* Sc0rpius readsa23:01
* Sc0rpius reads23:01
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cityLightsI need help23:02
cityLightsI wrote this program23:02
cityLightsand somehow it loops23:02
Sc0rpiusand what RST38h needs exactly in Modest?23:02
cityLightsand I just cant find why23:02
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cityLightsI got no clue as to why timer_callback is called every time23:03
Sc0rpiusRST 38H as in the 8080 instruction? hehe23:03
cityLightsI tried adding debug messeges23:03
cityLightsbut just dont understand it23:03
DocScrutinizercityLights: are you sure yu give correct value for timeout to qtimerfoo?23:04
DocScrutinizerit might as well be millisec, even microsec23:04
DocScrutinizercheck that23:04
RST38hSc0rpius: I want it not to crash when viewing seemingly random emails23:04
Sc0rpiussince exactly when that is happening to you? since CSSU, or since a specific version of CSSU?23:05
cityLightsyou can also see this in the plot near the bottum23:05
RST38hSc0rpius: Since a few last iterations of CSSU23:05
RST38hSc0rpius: Ok, since CSSU started including Modest :)23:06
Sc0rpiusCSSU has always included Modest23:06
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Sc0rpiussince the very first one23:06
Sc0rpiusbut I noticed a few crashes since 14.223:06
Sc0rpiusand the other day I was thinking it was very weird since the last commit I made to Modest it was working fine and severely tested23:07
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: prepare a conveniently installable version7, declare that -test23:07
RST38hSc0rpius: I do suspect the crashes were in whatever version got imported into CSSU23:07
DocScrutinizerno fixing, nuttin23:07
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RST38hSc0rpius: So it is unlikely to be your personal changes but the damn thing still crashes, which is hardly tolerable =(23:08
Sc0rpiusa downgrade from 3.90 to 3.4 (stock Maemo) will not be considered23:08
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: please test on 1337-7-rc0 soon to come23:09
Sc0rpiuswell gitorious isn't helping me right now to see what was the last changes in Modest and who made them23:09
paulyn900i have n900 and.23:09
DocScrutinizer1337-7-testing-rc0 even23:09
Sc0rpiusRST38h: it crashes viewing mails?23:09
paulyn900want to restore it to default factory but my usb is broken? any ideas?23:10
DocScrutinizerpaulyn900: you're pretty much fsckd23:10
Sc0rpiusRST38h: are you using tree view mode or normal list mode?23:10
paulyn900i cant reflash23:11
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DocScrutinizerN900 with broken USB is a semi-brick, a zombie23:11
paulyn900i know23:12
paulyn900u think someone would buy it in its condition?23:12
JaffaBUg 11961?23:12
povbotBug Random email application (modest) crashes with CSSU23:12
JaffaThere are stack traces and stuff on there, and a comment which may link it to a widget or something23:13
DocScrutinizerpaulyn900: under battery is a single pair of 2 gold dots, these are USB D+/-23:13
paulyn900i think im goona move away from maemo / nokia23:13
JaffaAlthough I've got the widget enabled and don't have any Modest crashes at all23:13
JaffaSc0rpius: ^^^23:13
paulyn900ahhh really23:13
paulyn900i have a spare usb cable23:14
SpeedEvilpaulyn900: Where in the world ar eyou?23:15
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DocScrutinizerwhen those 2 dots are upper left, counting down the rows, vbus 5V is on 2nd row down, leftmost dot23:15
SpeedEvilpaulyn900: Also - it's possible that there is debris in the connector - look carefully nder a strong light23:15
DocScrutinizergnd is everywhere ;-D23:15
RST38hOMG they have found a videotape of Osama watching TV feature about himself!23:15
paulyn900baltimore, md usa23:15
RST38hHow cute!23:15
SpeedEvilpaulyn900: Ah - EU has 2 year warranties - guess that doersn't help.23:15
paulyn900no worries23:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: wait til you see the awesome rest23:16
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RST38hRU has walk-in electronics repair shops - guess that doesn't help either23:16
paulyn900lol im using a t mobile my touch 3g slide i found at the mall23:16
RST38hDoc: Will there be Osama porn?!?!?23:16
paulyn900feel bad for whoever lost it23:17
RST38hpaul: Have you tried returning it to whoever lost it?23:17
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: yeah, coloring his beard, pondering if he looks alright for taking a video23:18
paulyn900no awnser23:18
paulyn900so its mines now23:18
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paulyn900Android is quite nice for end user but i cant figure out how to close a program quite odd23:19
RST38hDoc:Playing with his golden AK-54!23:19
MohammadAGJaffa, I found pointers to the QTBUG23:19
MohammadAGremember that it also made the fcamera manual focus circle disappear?23:19
MohammadAGI dug around fcamera's sources23:19
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* Sc0rpius is trying to reproduce the bug scrolling fast or viewing mails or anything that ppl have reported to cause the crash23:20
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paulyn900anyone want to buy n900 with broken usb? in usa23:20
RST38hSc0rpius: it is not from scrolling, for sure23:20
RST38hSc0rpius: For me, it consistently crashes when OPENING certain emails23:21
DocScrutinizermay be a friggin detaol in mails23:21
Sc0rpiusRST38h, do you use MfE?=23:21
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RST38hGod, no23:21
Sc0rpiusjust IMAP accounts?23:21
RST38hA GMail account and a POP3 account23:21
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Sc0rpiusdoes it crash viewing a gmail mail?23:22
RST38hGood question...I *think* I only saw it crash with POP3 emails23:22
RST38hMay be wrong though: not receiving a lot of GMail stuff23:22
paulyn900i think maemo shoud have used webkit browser its so quick23:22
DocScrutinizerRST38h: shame on you. You should know how to open tickets23:22
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DocScrutinizerand provide proper info23:22
Sicelo_paulyn900: i would be wary of putting my sim card in an unknown phone.. if owner reports it as could find yourself answering stupid questions :/23:22
paulyn900midori port is alright23:23
Sc0rpiusdo you autodownload images in your emails or you press the image button to download them after viewing emails? also, does it crash in texts emails or heavy HTML with images mails'23:23
paulyn900its okay ill just say i bought it from someone23:23
Sicelo_too bad i'm in southern africa.. i'd certainly buy your n90023:23
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RST38hDoc: Looks like the ticket is already open23:23
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RST38hDoc:And I am not yet pissed off enough to open a ticket and insist on maintainers' attention to it23:24
DocScrutinizernevertheless you are the one who can dissect the issue and track it down23:24
Sc0rpiusanyway I would be the one with the ticket :P23:24
RST38hDoc: Lack any time =(23:25
Sc0rpiusbut wow I haven't creashed the Modest and I'm vieweing and scrolling mails like crazy23:25
DocScrutinizersend the offending mail to somebody else who's interested23:25
RST38hDoc: I mean, literally. Don't have enough time to sleep even.23:25
Sc0rpiusmaybe it's kinda of private but do you have an email that always crashes?23:25
derfRST38h: As long as you have time to IRC.23:26
RST38hSc0rpius: I think I had. Once I catch another one, I will keep it there and contact you.23:26
DocScrutinizersounds like a plan23:26
RST38hderf: Yea, but this is happening in parallel with some development23:26
paulyn900n900 needs like an external portable power source for it to last one day23:27
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: don't mess with modest bugfixing, make a 1337-7-testing release - NOW23:27
paulyn900and i canf even charge it my external charger take 3hours to fully charge23:28
Sc0rpiusI wish I could reproduce the crash :(23:28
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t_s_ohow much free space is recommended to ensure diablo-turbo installs cleanly?23:28
DocScrutinizerthose were the times :-)23:29
* Sicelo_ understands DocScrutinizer's point23:29
paulyn900i love maemo just frustrated with my broken device bbl23:29
Sicelo_how much u selling it for?23:29
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DocScrutinizerpaulyn900: get "your" hw fixed23:30
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, modest isn't "assigned" to me23:30
paulyn900i know23:30
MohammadAGand downgrading Qt means downgrading hildon-desktop23:30
DocScrutinizeryeah, all doesn't matter23:31
DocScrutinizereven good, so you don't have to bother with it23:31
DocScrutinizerget 1337-7 and move it to a testing branch23:31
DocScrutinizerprepare a way for normal mortals to install it, and publish the news cssu got a testing now23:32
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DocScrutinizerafter one or two weeks, decide whether to call it stable now23:32
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MohammadAGyou do realize that up to maemo7, nothing new was there?23:33
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MohammadAGwithout fixing the Qt bug in one way or another, I won't push a stable release23:34
DocScrutinizeryeah I realize, and that's exactly why this version is OK for a first testing that is exclusively targeted at fixing maemo bugs23:34
paulyn900sicelo_ 250 usd23:34
MohammadAGalso, I'd appreciate it if extras-devel got new versions of Qt Mobility, the current ones suck23:34
DocScrutinizerwtf, which Qt bug - in 1337-7???23:34
MohammadAGmameo7 doesn't have any new features23:35
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DocScrutinizerI never heard of mameo723:35
MohammadAGFeatures frozen on current release23:35
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DocScrutinizer51I'm talking about 2010.36-2maemo1323:37
DocScrutinizer51aka 1337-723:37
Sc0rpiuswow I can't crash this23:37
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MohammadAGSc0rpius, I only encountered a modest crash once23:39
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Sc0rpiusit crashed on me yesterday actually23:40
DocScrutinizerthis version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from23:40
Sc0rpiusjust once too23:40
Sc0rpiusI'm downloading the core dumps somebody posted in the bug23:40
DocScrutinizerthe whole point of a testing version *is* it's *not* bleeding edge23:41
DocScrutinizerthat's why I say let's use  2010.36-2maemo1323:41
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Sc0rpiuswhat you don't like about cssu 14?23:42
DocScrutinizerall the bugs that MohammadAG thinks he has to fix before he can release that one for a testing version23:42
DocScrutinizersimple as that23:42
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DocScrutinizer[2011-05-07 22:40:33] <DocScrutinizer> this version has actually been tested at very least by me for several weeks, maybe months, and it kinda works. No use in moving bleeding edge to testing after fixing most annoying recently known bugs, there'll be no better version to backport bugfixes from23:43
* Jaffa also thinks that the new Qt version could perhaps use more in-depth testing, and having the first CSSU release out would alleviate the pressure on that23:43
DocScrutinizerhey, it's a testing(!!!) release23:44
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DocScrutinizermeans we're rather sure we fixed all the bugs we knew, but we expect some more to appear23:44
* Sc0rpius just wants to crash Modest23:44
DocScrutinizerkill -SIGSEGV $(pidof modest)23:45
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DocScrutinizerso pretty please go for 1337-7 for first testing release, and do it *now*23:47
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DocScrutinizerfixing bugs in <bleeding edge> isn't like preparing a testing release, it's the contrary23:48
kerioi think bleeding edge is a pretty cool guy23:50
kerioeh introduces new features and bugs and doesn't afraid of anything23:50
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: I see what you were talking about23:52
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, I've looked at the SHR video23:56
DocScrutinizerit's quite some months old23:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer, seems that the GUI was designed by two persons - one who knows about usability and one who doesn't.23:56
DocScrutinizerthe N900 one23:56
DocScrutinizermight be right23:56
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Venemowhy do you make your own UX anyway? you could use an existing one23:57
DocScrutinizerdon't ask me23:57
DocScrutinizerI think much of that stuff based on raster's illume23:57
DocScrutinizerenlightenment, whatever23:58
Venemowell I don't really care what it's based on. and it really doesn't matter23:58
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DocScrutinizerbut, as always, there are some gifted devels, and some not so gifted, and if your team is short on manpower, you're happy about every helping hand23:59
Venemowhat really matters is how good it looks ans how comfortable it is to use.23:59

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