IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2011-03-15

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* MohammadAG stabs undocumented shit00:00
MohammadAGI don't want the damn email notification ruining my media player00:01
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ZogGMohammadAG how does it ruines00:05
MohammadAGit silences it00:05
lofty306popping up in the middle of a movie00:05
MohammadAGnah, solved that with DND00:06
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MohammadAGbut the audible notifications suck00:06
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MohammadAGlibplayback, gotcha00:07
vi__is there a reason why my video files suddenly stop and media player says unsupported format00:07
MohammadAGI'd guess heavy dependencies on dbus00:08
MohammadAGso when swap is taxed, dbus can't send replies00:08
MohammadAGthe stock mediaplayer simply returns a random error00:08
lofty306is there a better media player i get this too sometimess00:09
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nox-MohammadAG, eww00:10
nox-that sounds almost microsoft-ish...00:10
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MohammadAGthe usual error is "No connection to server"00:11
MohammadAGI think I'll have to cheat by disassembling the stock player00:12
MohammadAGnow if only I knew how to do that...00:12
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* vi__ nudges mo his copy of IDA00:12
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nox-heh i was just thinking of that too00:13
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MohammadAGheh, no use in something if I can't use it00:16
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SpeedEvilWhat was my ping out message?00:16
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lofty306 SpeedEvil has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)00:17
* SpeedEvil wonders why nmap did that.00:18
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SpeedEvilHow do i get to see stored passwords on microb?00:57
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SpeedEvilI've lost the little sticker that came with my new router.00:58
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javispedropossibly same way than on desktop firefox01:01
javispedroafaik I remember, passwords are stored crypted with a per-profile symmetric key01:01
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SpeedEvilpreferences menu, then security, but I've never seen prefs menu01:02
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javispedroyeah, I was thinking "same way as on GUI-less desktop Firefox ;) "01:03
javispedrovia manipulation of profile files01:03
SpeedEvilI'll tcpdump it when I wake up.01:04
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javispedrobaah, easy way.01:05
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DocScrutinizer51I bet there's a nifty way to enter some cryptic URL01:08
jogaoff topic but cool
DocScrutinizer51wasn't there sth about that on MWKN even01:08
joganot sure, I don't follow it01:09
DocScrutinizer51vme fires up microb bookmarks01:09
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DocScrutinizer51joga: was targeted at SpeedEvil / javispedro01:09
jogaheh k01:09
SpeedEvilI had a prototype USB connector using that.01:11
SpeedEvilMagnets with field so it'd clamp on one way.01:11
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remco_Hi everyone. I have a question. I'm afraid my touchscreen is broken. I really dont know why because one moment it worked and the other it started acting weird. No its not working anymore. My problem is that i flashed it to check if it was a software faillure, but it wasnt. Now i cant access my phone again because i get the 'welcome / time settings screen' which i cant skip. Does anyone know a solution to get acces to the commandline?01:20
remco_I'm already trying to access is for two days01:20
remco_touchscreen of my N90001:20
jacekowskiget new touchscreen01:21
jacekowskiit's like £2001:21
remco_Yes but i dont know if this is broken, so i want to check this by installing VNC or something to see if i can control it from my computer01:21
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remco_I dont believe in hardware that just stops without external involvement01:22
remco_Phone is not that old01:22
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remco_Is there no switch to TTY or something to get 'behind' Maemo?01:24
jacekowskinot really01:24
jacekowskiyou can compile your own kernel01:24
jacekowskiand play with initrd01:25
remco_:-) HMmm, this costs more than buying a new touchscreen01:25
jacekowskicompiling your own kernel is free01:26
remco_Yes, but it costs time :)01:26
orlokremco_: configuring it costs time...01:27
orlokyou dont have to compile it by hand :)01:27
remco_Sometimes my screen responds a bit, it seems to need recalibration01:27
orlokremco_: and it has an xterm.. unless you wanted a serial console while booting?01:27
remco_So this is the strange thing. I think that if the touchscreen is broken, nothing will work at all01:27
orlokand ESD can kill hardware01:28
remco_Is there a way to access the serail console?01:28
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orlokstatic zaps01:28
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orlokbut i'd hope a phone, unopened, would be protected01:28
lolcatYes, I got a $1000 refund on a computer :D01:29
orlokmy N900 camera doesnt work :-(01:29
orlokfsckd the filesystem01:29
lolcatI have had it for almost a year!01:29
Psiif its just the filesystem then atleast its fixable01:32
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lardmanevening chaps01:39
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* lardman is happy to see at least one more confirmed Council nomination01:41
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* lardman wonders whether X-Fade is watching his countrymen playing cricket... :)01:43
lardmanand quite well at that01:43
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lardmanhmm, apparently not so great, /me is watching the highlights01:44
lcukn900hey lardman \o01:44
DocScrutinizer51moo lardman01:45
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lardmanhi guys01:46
* lcukn900 notes busy calendar this next week01:46
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* lardman notes a week off this week :)01:49
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GAN900lardman, yeah, not a council I'm going to envy.01:51
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lardmanGAN900: no, quite01:51
lardmanI feel a bit bad for not volunteering, but really no time (other than this week off!)01:52
* lardman curses the N900's web browser01:53
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trxi am trying to create a library deb package, how do i make "postinst" script to be included?01:56
trx(sorry for the off topic)01:57
lcukn900trx, my library has a basic debian folder which should show you nicely where postinst shold be :) libliqbase01:57
trxthank you01:58
lardmanif the file exists is it automatically included, or do you need to list is somewhere?01:58
trxit exists01:59
trxbut it doesnt get into .deb01:59
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lardmansee what lcukn900 does then, I guess it needs to be listed in some file in debian/02:00
lardmane.g. debian/files or something like that02:00
trxyeah, probably02:00
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* lardman heads for bed, catch you all tomorrow02:02
trxoh, it needs to be named mypackagename.postinst02:02
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trxi'll test that out02:02
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: .hi02:09
DocScrutinizer51GeneralAntilles: o/02:09
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* DocScrutinizer51 is kinda happy to see somebody at SHR finally is intereted in the ALSA-only alternative he invernted in 2009, to PED end similar crap02:11
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lolcatIf I was going to store a N900 for a longer period without using it, how should I do it?02:25
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GeneralAntillesIn oil.02:25
GeneralAntillesIt'll keep it lubricated.02:25
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cehtehlol .. but the thin foils in the screen will suck it up and damage it02:27
cehtehask Treibholz :)02:27
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cehtehlolcat: remove the battery, put it into a dry plastic bag .. maybe with some drying gel. seal it store it dark at average not too much varying temperature02:29
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cehtehhow long do you want to store it? 20 years? :)02:29
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SpeedEvillolcat: Discharge to 40%, put in a baggie in the fridge.02:30
SpeedEvilWill last at least a decade like that. Charge and discharge to 40% every couple of years02:30
lolcatThe whole device?02:31
cehtehthe battery02:31
lolcatI am afraid the internal battery will die02:31
cehtehnot the whole device02:31
cehtehinternal battery? .. it has none02:32
SpeedEvilIt does02:32
SpeedEvilHave an internal battery02:32
cehtehiirc its only a cap02:32
SpeedEvilIIRC it's a battery.02:32
SpeedEvilI' need to recheck the schems though.02:32
cehtehwhy does it hold the clock only a few minutes then?02:32
SpeedEvilcehteh: If you replace the SIM, you get the date setting dialog, even if the time is corrrect02:33
cehtehbut without replacing sim .. just replacing battery and be slow with that resets the clock02:33
cehtehand a freezer wont be good for the display and the electrolyte caps02:34
DocScrutinizer51cehteh: because of that battery is crap and brolen after 6 months02:34
cehteherr fridge should work .. but be very careful about humidity02:34
cehtehDocScrutinizer: uh02:34
SpeedEvilI diddn't realise the discussion was on the whole device. Above was only for thebattery02:34
cehteh[01:25] <lolcat> If I was going to store a N900 for a longer period without using it, how should I do it?02:35
DocScrutinizer51ahhh thanks02:35
cehtehhow long do we expect the batteries available? .. prolly for some years or?02:35
SpeedEvilFor what?02:36
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DocScrutinizer51at least 5 years02:36
SpeedEvilfor n900 easy02:36
cehtehi'd consider to store the device without battery (main battery) and buy a new one when reanimating the device02:36
cehtehwell he didnt saied how long he wants to store it02:36
lolcatI am concidering to buy 3 batteries02:36
lolcatUntill my other N900 dies02:36
SpeedEvilIIRC new phones are still being sold with teh n900 battery02:36
cehtehlolcat: liion batteries age even without using them .. only buy as much you need02:37
SpeedEvilOr discharge to 40% and put in the freezer.02:37
lolcatcehteh: I need a spare battery, and I have to buy three if I need one02:37
cehteh3 seems reasonable :)02:37
cehtehi should buy another one too02:37
lolcatThey would be a lot cheaper if I buy 1000 though...02:38
cehtehbut just dont plan to store then .. use them02:38
lolcatI will02:38
cehtehhaha you can give me 1 then :P02:38
lolcatI need a external charger for it though02:38
lolcat3 batteries, plus 1 for each n900 I own02:38
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lolcatI am seriously considering getting another N90002:41
lolcatOnly worry is that the N950 is pure awesomeness02:41
lofty306i think bout it now and then02:41
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lolcatI probably will want it less when they are done fixing the usb plug02:41
cehtehi doubt that the n950 will be that awesome02:42
lofty306they got me in a like do i but this that or wait and see if it actualy comes out02:42
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lolcatcehteh: Dual core arm, 512megs ram. It has the potentialto be awesome02:42
cehtehmore megapixels maybe ... maybe sleeker design .. but less geek gadgets like radio transmitter, ir transmitter ..02:42
lolcatYou think?02:42
cehtehyeah more cpu and ram02:43
cehtehyes i think02:43
lolcatIr transmitter I dont care about02:43
lolcatFM transmitter is cool02:43
cehtehlets see02:43
cehtehmaybe hdmi ..02:43
cehtehbiggier display02:43
lofty306full output02:43
cehtehanyways ... prolly not worth the upgrade for me02:44
lofty306that they said 4"02:44
lofty3063.7" actuall02:44
lofty306screen bout the size of 770 would be good02:45
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Macerdon't get sucked in02:45
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lolcatWhen is it scheduled?02:46
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lofty306they say by the end of the year but they say alotta things02:46
Macerit is just nokia sucking suckers into another wasted gadget they will not support02:46
orlokHmm. fsck'd the filesystems on my N90002:47
orlokcamera still doesnt work02:47
lolcatI know, but new harware02:47
lofty306reflash it?02:47
orloki wonder how Intel's Meego devices will work02:47
lolcatI would love it if they kept the N900 and just replaced the cpu, gpu and ram02:47
orloklofty306: what will that do?02:47
Macerlolcat: what is the poing if you are stuck with an os that will never be updated?02:48
lofty306reloads the os start over.... back up settings ect to sd card reload os  start over02:49
lolcatMacer: You can install your own os even02:49
Macermaybe twice then dumped as ms muscles all other OSes off nokias02:49
Macerlolcat: sure if you dont want a functional device02:49
Maceror a device that is half functional :)02:49
lolcatI think Maemo works bether than an upadted Android02:50
cehtehexcept for email the n900 works reasonable well meanwhile02:50
Maceri do too but what you have now is what you are stuck with02:50
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lolcatI love the N900, it is the most perfect phone I have ever used02:50
Macersince maemo has for all intents and purposes been dropped02:51
* nox- just ssh's to a bsd box with mutt for email :)02:51
Maceri love maemo :)02:51
orloklolcat: same here02:51
Macerjust wish it had a future02:51
orloklolcat: but, i've been a linux sysadmin for 15 years02:51
Macerwish i could see my n900 being useful in 4 years02:51
orloklolcat: so i must be one of the few people that can use it via terminal without thinking02:51
Macerwhich it could have been if nokia wasnt ran by idiots02:51
lolcatI wish I could see any phone being a potential replacement for my N900.02:51
orlokMacer: i can - telescope control unit :)02:52
* mtnbkr loves his N900 too (and has also been *nix sysadmin for +-15 years!)02:52
lolcatI have only used linux for about 4 years02:52
mtnbkrstupid stupid Nokia02:52
lolcatCan't say I miss the Windows days02:52
* mtnbkr is sad they abanoned maemo/meego for Winphone7 (ack!)02:53
lofty306that word hurts my ears lolcat02:53
Macerlolcat: yeah. it is an awesome os :) maemo had the potential but didn't have the proper direction applied to it02:53
orlokmtnbkr: its microsoft sending in an assasin02:53
Macerand now nokia has a few years before bankruptcy02:53
Macernobody likes winmob phones02:53
Macerthey should have gone a custom android route02:53
mtnbkrwell, it was an Ex-microsoft exec that was working for nokia now that made this deal... Go figure02:53
orlokhmm.. is strace available for N900?02:54
lolcatMacer: Vanilla Android is bether02:54
* orlok wants to get to the bottom of this camera issue02:54
Macerlolcat: maybe ;) depends02:54
orlokreflashing without understanding is the windows way out!02:54
lolcatMacer: I hate the Sony Ericsons version of it02:54
orlokmtnbkr: same thing happened to HPUX and Irix02:54
Macerorlok: i had a prob using the power kernel02:54
lolcatI don't really like it at all, it was OK on my N900 though02:54
lofty306didnt know youur leveel orlok02:54
Macerlolcat: the g2 one is pretty good02:54
orlokmtnbkr: some dickhead killed their unix systems in favor of NT/Itanium, and after he crippled HP and SGI02:54
orlok's workstations02:55
orlokhe got a n\ice cushy job at microsoft02:55
* mtnbkr is SOOOOO tired of Microsft and their illegal and immoral business activities (and their shitty software)02:55
Macerlolcat: if nitdroid had fully working hardware i think i would use it over maemo now tbh02:55
lofty306i havent reflashed my 900 yet either02:55
orlokMacer: hmm.. ok, i had the drivers loaded on the new kernel.. but it will try that02:56
lolcatMacer: There is about two android apps I would want, but Id rather see a dalvik implentation on N900 than running the whole os02:56
Macerorlok: i had to go back to the standard kernel02:56
orlokyay, just got an email02:56
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orlok"Meeting cancelled due to investment celebration"02:56
Macerlolcat: maybe. i would rather have the os with a gnu base added02:56
mtnbkrorlok: haha02:56
Maceri always wished android had a gnu base02:57
orlokwe were worried the party poppers were going to set off the smoke alarm02:57
mtnbkrorlok: make sure to download the attachment!02:57
Macerwith gnu apps built in :)02:57
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orlokmtnbkr: nah, it came from one of the most hardcore OSS/linux geeks i know02:57
orlokhe dont do that shit02:57
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mtnbkrorlok: or.....   It came frome an infected windows machine that used his email addrss in the FROM: field. :)02:58
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orlokheh.. windows.. whats that? :)02:58
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mtnbkrorlok: It is the bane of the Internet age02:58
orlokoh, Xwindows.. :)02:58
infobotmtnbkr meant: orlok: It is the bane of the Computing age02:59
orloki confess. i run a windows desktop at home02:59
orlokbut the only game i have been playing is minecraft02:59
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orlokso i may as well just go back to linux02:59
orlokthough.. i still play L4D202:59
orlokMacer: ok, camera works now03:00
Maceri was a big fan of kubuntu03:00
orloki like ubuntu for a desktop03:00
Maceri usually run it on everything as far as a desktop goes03:00
Maceri hate gnome03:00
mtnbkrin 1990 or 1991, I made Microsft give me a refund for windows 3.0 (Desqview blew it away, and then OS/2 and then linux)  I sent the box, they sent a chack and I am a "Happy Microsoft customer" never bought another Microsoft product since03:00
Macerid rather use kde403:00
orloki use it on my laptop/work desktop and my robots03:01
orlokthe window manager i dont care about03:01
orloki use apps and xterms03:01
orlokthe rest is just stuff for positioning those03:01
Macerorlok: i used blackbox for years03:01
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Macerbut kde4 is awesome03:01
Macerenlightenment was good03:01
orlokhe turns up here!03:02
Maceri hated xfce03:02
Macerreminded me og gnome03:02
orlokmkandrake or rasterman, i forget which03:02
orlokhe has an N900, but cant use it03:02
orlokhe's working for samsung on the new galaxy iirc03:02
Macerkde4 is great tho03:02
* orlok is happy with a serial console usually03:02
Macerit is probably the only one i used as far as a desktop ui goes that is worth using03:03
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Maceranyways. going to hook up my laptop. bbl03:03
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mtnbkrJartza: is there "new" news about that site?    Seems like it is prolly going to go full meltdown. :(03:03
Jartzareactorhall number 2 had an explosion too03:04
Jartzaand now there seems to be a leak also03:04
Jartzaradiation went up to 8217 microsieverts03:04
Jartzatepco had a "news conference" where 4 guys just bowed and said they apologize from the people of japan, read something from the papers and didn't actually answer any questions03:05
Jartzathat was a bit strange03:05
* mtnbkr says: building your nuclear reactor on a MAJOR fault line is like building your infrastructure on Microsoft products03:05
Jartza"japanese government has made an official request for assistance to US government"03:06
mtnbkr(only a lot worse actaully)03:06
n900evilJartza: were swords involved?03:06
mtnbkrn900evil: I expect they will be03:06
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Jartzan900evil: looked so suspicious that I was actually waiting for that. but at least they didn't show that live.03:06
Jartzabut it seems the containment vessel has a leak03:07
n900evilJartza: well - US has experience with aftereffects of irradiating japan.03:07
Jartzaand over half of the fuel rods are exposed in reactor 203:07
n900evil8000 is a couple of orders of magnitude higher than I heard before.03:07
Jartzaso quite propably at least we'll see "three mile island"03:07
n900evilbut still pretty low.03:08
orloklead and concrete03:08
orlokthey should start dumping it now03:08
orloki wonder if there will a s.t.a.l.k.e.r.: tokyo03:08
Jartzastalker is a guy that goes to the prohibited zone and transfers from black and white to color around halftime of the movie.03:10
wmarone__hope not, I want to go back next year for the sky tree opening :/03:10
Jartzathey've evacuated the operators from the nuclear plant03:10
chxJartza: url03:14
Jartza"this could be the worst case scenario for nuclear power plants in japan"03:14
Jartzawatching NHK World03:14
chxi have friends , former collegaue who lives about 100km from that crap -- he says he is on another side of some mountain range so they are probably safe.03:19
lofty306so it is looking like the iaea is preparing to prepare to propare apreport ppoon how to respond to japan nuke plants03:20
Jartzathey were extending the evacuation range and they were waking up people in some cities03:20
lofty306wrong channel oops03:20
JartzaI also have few friends in japan, but they are safe in tokyo03:21
Jartzaalthough they complained that tokyo was running out of food and they were thinking of leaving to osaka03:22
lofty306i think all my freinds are in tokyo03:22
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Jartzanow they're telling about the nuclear problems in NHK03:29
doc|homeconnection keeps dying03:30
Jartzaalso some problems with the used fuel reservoir located in reactor building 303:31
doc|homeisn't reactor 3 in some sort of passive shut down now?03:31
Jartzathey're still cooling it with seawater03:32
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Jartzadoc|home: is another url03:39
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doc|homethanks Jartza03:40
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Maceralrighty then03:41
Macerspeaking of kubuntu i just got it going on this laptop :)03:41
DocScrutinizer(<Macer> lolcat: what is the poing if you are stuck with an os that will never be updated?) some of my boxes run on an OS version that's like 5 years old - and they are still useful03:42
DocScrutinizerorlok: yes, strace is available03:42
orlokyeah, if it does the job and theres no bugs..03:42
orlokthats the perfect reason NOT to upgrade03:42
orlokDocScrutinizer: ahh, no need, my camera works now :)03:43
DrGrovSo there is a meltdown going on at the moment?03:43
Jartzapartial, at least03:43
DrGrovJartza: Ok.03:43
Jartzawe just have to wait and see how bad03:43
DrGrovHow often does NHK go live with the news?03:43
DrGrovIt is just recorded now03:43
MacerDocScrutinizer: heh :)03:43
Macerdamn. a little late huh?03:43
DrGrovIs CNN covering it as well in live time?03:43
orlokJartza: It was actually based on a book originally03:43
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lolcatDrGrov: Agreed03:44
Maceri am installing non open software on my kubuntu laptop ! wooooo03:44
orlokJartza: but theres 3 computer cames based on the book, but set around chernobyl03:44
JartzaDrGrov: looks like they roll the news every 30 mins or so03:44
Maceri should call this thing the nokia n900003:44
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DrGrovJartza: Ok, I will switch to cable TV then and get CNN03:44
Jartzaorlok: I know, I've read the book. and watched the original 1972 film many times :)03:44
orlokJartza: me too03:44
DocScrutinizerMacer: I'm not *always* realtime03:44
orlokweird that it was all done _before_ chernobyl happened03:44
MacerDocScrutinizer: ;)03:45
orlokJartza: a few of the actors died due to poisoning...03:45
DocScrutinizerI rarely miss anything though03:45
orlokJartza: the white foamy stuff in the river? that wasnt special effects.. it was chemical runoff03:45
Jartzaorlok: still it's quite powerful movie :)03:45
orloklots of awesome long shots and stuff03:45
Macerugh. i have to restart the computer to activate a driver :)03:45
Jartzalike any other tarkovsky's film03:45
Macerit's like running windows all over again03:45
DrGrovIt is strange that there is not continuous live coverage03:45
Jartzamirror was quite scary too :)03:46
orlokJartza: even got mentioned in gibsons's latest trilogy03:46
Jartzathe movie03:46
DocScrutinizerheh, core melt - the real one now?03:46
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Where?03:46
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Happening now?03:46
chxand if it melts, then what? the primary containment supposedly is built to hold exactly that.03:46
DocScrutinizerdamn you can't leave for two bears without missing 'funny' news about those friggin nuke-plants03:46
JartzaDocScrutinizer: well over half of the fuel-rods are exposed in reactor 203:46
Jartzaand there might be a leak in the primary container vessel03:47
chxnow that i would wonder about that03:47
Jartzame too03:47
DocScrutinizeryou bet there is, as otherwise how would there be explosions03:47
DrGrovAny word from experts that is it going to be a 2nd Chernobyl or smaller?03:47
Jartzabut that was something they said earlier03:47
Jartzait's not going to be chernobyl03:47
chxremember when Sandia driven a fighter jet into a concrete slab to test what the containment can survive?03:47
Jartzachernobyl didn't even shut down03:47
chxthe jet left a , what, 3 inch scratch on the 40 inch thick concrete?03:48
chxChernobyl was a completely different fuckup03:48
Jartzathose reactors have been shut down right after the quake03:48
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chxThis is more Three Mile Island.03:48
Jartzamore or less03:48
chxChernobyl did not even have a containment to boot03:48
DrGrovOk, Three Mile Island is much more relieving news than a Chernobyl.03:48
chxit should be03:48
chxremember: the containment at TMI *did* hold.03:48
Jartzaand in chernobyl the safety-devices were shut down on purpose :)03:49
DrGrovI watched CNN the other night and it seems like US experts are really talking out of their asses03:49
chxthat's the only experiment anyone ever did into the containment , who knows why :P03:49
DocScrutinizerchx: PV isn't built to withstand a coremelt aka 70 tons of whiteglowing gue03:49
Jartzachernobyl was the fuckup of fuckups :)03:49
chxDocScrutinizer: it is. that's what it is built to do.03:49
DocScrutinizerluke-jr: Isn't that the link I posted 12h ago?03:49
DrGrovJartza: Agreed, a real fuck up. I actually remember that day still.03:49
chxJartza: Chernobyl used graphite to moderate and guess what that was a brilliant idea... NOT.03:49
JartzaDrGrov: me too :)03:50
chxI am from Hungary and we were relatively close to Chernobyl :(03:50
DrGrovJartza: I was playing in the sandbox as a child and my father came and pick me up. The radiation reached the west coast easily03:50
luke-jrDocScrutinizer: maybe, but it certainly explains the explosion03:50
JartzaDrGrov: I live less than 1000km from chernobyl :)03:51
DrGrovJartza: DamN :(03:51
DocScrutinizeryeah, sure, except that you don't know why external bottles of pressurized H2 should explode related to some action going on inside PV03:51
Jartzaor around 1000km anyway... in finland :)03:51
chxJartza: ouch. You guys warned the free world what was going on -- but we didnt know :(03:52
Jartzachx: yeah. the burning graphite did spread all the radiating goo all around03:52
DrGrovJartza: Actually about in which part of FInland do you live?03:52
DocScrutinizerso what's the news?03:53
DrGrovchx: My missus is from Hungary as well and she also remembers that day clearly.03:53
Jartzathe chernobyl radiation can actually still be found from finland, for example from mushrooms03:53
JartzaDrGrov: southern finland, nummi-pusula. around 70km from helsinki.03:53
Jartzanorthwest from helsinki03:53
DrGrovJartza: Ok, I live in Vaasa. That is perhaps closer to Chernobyl or?03:53
BCMMJartza: which isotopes? C-137?03:53
DocScrutinizerJartza: sure. here in Bavaria you still can't eat wild boar03:53
doc|homeJartza: they still test in the UK03:54
JartzaDrGrov: helsinki is closer to chernobyl :)03:54
Jartzavaasa is quite more to north03:54
JartzaDocScrutinizer: yeah :(03:54
DrGrovJartza: Yes it is. Ah, I was reading the fucking map the wrong way LOL03:54
JartzaBCMM: don't know that specifically :)03:54
doc|homethis is supposedly a webcam of the power plant is that steam?03:54
DocScrutinizerJartza: actually all shot boar go to the special dump, for toxic waste etc03:54
DrGrovJartza: The winds were badly turning this way though03:54
Jartzayeah I think finland got quite a shitload of that goo from chernobyl03:55
DrGrovJartza: I remember the sky turning black03:55
Jartzabut not that bad of course as the local people did03:55
DrGrovNo of course not but still we got a lot of that shit coming our way.03:55
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Jartzaactually finland noticed that the radiation levels were rising, but at first they thought it was a faulty meter :)03:56
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: if that's actually fuckishima then that's seawater evaporated at a partial core meltdown03:56
Jartzaof course the russians didn't tell anything03:56
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: that's what I thought, but is that especially bad or just expected?03:57
doc|homeobviously a continuing core meltdown is bad, but is this acceptable?03:57
DocScrutinizerit's both03:57
Jartzaunfortunately they still use chernobyl-type reactors in russia03:57
chxJartza: there's worse, there's one in Bulgaria, what it is called, i always forget, if they still did not show that one down, it can be the doom of the world03:58
JartzaBCMM: ok, I had to check the finnish radioactivity authority. it's cesium-137 that's still found from the mushrooms and berries03:59
DocScrutinizerthis steam will carry all the decay isotopes with it, and deploy them all across the globe, or at least to where the wind blows in 1000 or 3000 or 30,000ft altitude03:59
chxoh good, Kozloduy was taken offline in 2004. phew.03:59
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: what's the half-life of those?03:59
nox-the problem reactors were supposed to be taken down 10 yrs ago too...04:00
DocScrutinizerand of course in seawater there's also lots of Iodine etc that gets charged up with radiation while passing thru the core04:00
Jartzachx: well, in russia there is still 16 of those graphite-reactors on full run :(04:00
Jartzaok, prime minister will give a special message to japanese people04:00
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: from what I've been reading it's pretty short in released steam. No info about the current status04:00
chxJartza: yes i know but Kozloduy was big enough for a China Syndrome thrice over :/ good that shit has been stopped.04:00
nox-live news conf on nhk world04:01
Jartzahalf of the russias nuclear power comes from RBMK reactors... the same shit04:01
Jartzayes, have to check this NHK out now04:01
doc|homeget to the point ...04:02
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: halflife of H and O probably is irrelevant, but it carries all the Cs137 and Iodine and whatnot decay products fro then broken fuel rods, plus the minerals of seawater that get charged up in core radiation04:02
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: meaning?04:02
DocScrutinizermeaning that's almost as bad as it gets04:03
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javispedromeaning nothing, unless you plan to take your vacation on there in few minutes.04:04
doc|homejavispedro: hmm?04:04
Jartza"we would like to ask you to stay indoors"04:04
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd be interested in the upper cut-away 4/5 of that photo04:05
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DocScrutinizeralso for all I know wind is taking that shit to Tokyo right now04:05
javispedrowhat photo?04:05
Jartzaso they are basically telling that some radioactive shit has already been leaked, but they don't know the amount or the cause.04:05
doc|homejavispedro: allegedly that's the plant now - webcam04:06
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: I'd not know anything else on this globe that might look like that04:06
javispedroso what it's that? apart from vapor water.04:06
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: I see that every day on my way to work from factories, just steam...04:07
DocScrutinizerdecay products of broken rods04:07
DocScrutinizernot that size04:07
Jartzawell it depends quite a lot about the condition of the reactor vessel itself04:08
doc|homewtf, fire in no 4 reactor?04:08
luke-jrif people want certain answers, we could just drop a nuclear bomb on it04:08
doc|homethat wasn't even operational04:08
luke-jrthen everything is clear04:08
Jartzaand number 4 reactor is on fire.04:08
DocScrutinizerthat's sea water that passed by a partially molten core that is constantly releasing decay products and radiation04:08
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DocScrutinizerdoc|home: who said it wasn't operational?04:09
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DocScrutinizerit might have been shut down prior to the quake, but that doesn't mean they may stop to cool it04:09
doc|home3 of the reactors were shut down before the quake even hit04:10
doc|homefully shut down afaik04:10
DocScrutinizerfully shut down is BS04:10
doc|homeeverything is bs with you04:10
doc|homealmost as bad as fox :)04:10
JartzaDocScrutinizer: the released steam isn't that highly active, and the half-time is quite short04:10
DocScrutinizeryeah, because that'S all they tell04:10
Jartzawe're talking about seconds04:10
doc|home2nd reactor holed04:11
Jartzaas long as the reactor vessel itself is intact04:11
DocScrutinizerJartza: says who?04:11
doc|homeoh, on the outer containment04:11
doc|homenot the inner one04:11
JartzaDocScrutinizer: quite many sources04:11
Jartzaiaea for example04:12
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: there was a spike in radioactivity, that's from when the building exploded. Went back down again.04:12
DocScrutinizermeh, you think they can cool down a core melt by sparying the PV with water? LOL04:12
doc|homeit's going INTO the reactor, not the outside04:12
DocScrutinizeruhuh, so why is the steam clean then?04:13
Jartzait's not clean04:13
DocScrutinizersorry that doesn't make sense04:13
lcukn900lardman the "select image" ui on mbarcode is a bit funky,  how would you link a "send to mbarcode" sharing plugin?04:13
lcukn900doh earlypaste04:13
DocScrutinizerdon't you notice all the bullshit they tell you?04:13
Jartzathat's actually quite a good explanation04:14
JartzaI notice they don't tell us all, but I'm still not that paranoid :)04:14
DocScrutinizerJartza: well, I posted that some 12h ago04:14
DocScrutinizerI'm not paranoid at all. I'd even work there, as I'm so old I can't get hurt except with megaRAD04:15
JartzaI've been inside a nuclear power plant many times :)04:16
Jartzaseen it in action04:16
JartzaI've walked over the nuclear core!04:16
javispedrowho hasn't!04:17
Jartzaalthough there were few floor levels between :)04:17
Jartzaactually, in Finland the nuclear plants are open to public04:17
doc|homejavispedro: I was in a peat burning power plant? :(04:17
javispedrothat is even better!04:17
javispedroand more dangerous!04:17
Jartzaif you want to visit a nuclear power plant, just call them.04:17
DocScrutinizerbut there's no reasonable explanation how such steam can get produced without water passing by the fuel rods directly. And even Japan gvmt admittted tere's probably a partial core melt at all 3 blocks04:17
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: like has been explained, the half life is in seconds04:18
doc|home(from what I've read anyway)04:18
doc|homefor most of it that is04:18
DocScrutinizernot for the decay products of the rods that got freed04:18
DocScrutinizersure most of it is just H2O which doesn't matter, but there's tons of that every minute04:19
DocScrutinizerplus a few grams of cs137 and Pu04:19
DocScrutinizerand Iodine and Strontium04:20
DocScrutinizerthat bleeds out of the broken fuel rods04:20
Jartzaanyway, the radiation levels have been going down again04:20
DocScrutinizerdon't get fooled by what they tell you04:20
doc|homeI'd be worried about the fire, potentially radioactive ash and all that...04:21
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: actually I don't see any radioactive substance involved in any fire04:21
DocScrutinizerso probably harmless04:21
Jartzaexcept the reactor 4?04:21
Jartzawhich still has used fuel in it04:21
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DocScrutinizerJartza: all 6 blocks have fuel04:22
Jartza3 blocks were under maintenance04:22
DocScrutinizerand all 6 need cooling04:22
Jartzasure, unless they were already subcritical04:23
doc|homewhich I think they were04:23
DocScrutinizermaybe one or two of the "off" blocks actually chilled down to safe levels since weeks or months04:23
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: less speculation would be nice04:23
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: less faith in what Tokyo Power Company publsihes would be reasonable04:24
doc|homein comparison to?04:24
orlokAre the reactors powered by N900's?04:24
doc|home"some dude in #maemo"?04:24
DocScrutinizerthey've been lying from the very beginning, shit since years04:25
orlokor running Maemo on the control systems?04:25
doc|homeorlok: yes04:25
orlokWE ARE ALL DOOMED!04:25
DocScrutinizerorlok: you for sure are DOOMED04:25
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doc|homeanyone figured out what direction that steam is heading?04:27
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doc|homeinland or out to sea?04:27
DocScrutinizeras metioned before I simply don't care anymore, I'm too old. It's just I don't get it how everybody's eating the bullsh*t the authorities are feeding us04:27
DocScrutinizerans even says "thank you!"04:27
DocScrutinizermeanwhile should be south, which means it's hitting Tokyo today04:28
* javispedro watches DocScrutinizer his own paranoidness grave04:29
DocScrutinizerthat's old news we get in german TV weather forecast every hour since 2 days04:29
javispedro*dig his own...04:29
DocScrutinizerI'm as calm as can get04:29
DocScrutinizerjust cackling about your excitement04:30
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DocScrutinizercloud most likely never will reach Europe, and even when it does, I survived Chernobyl and I was young and susceptible to cancer inducing isotopes back when. Now I just think "meh!"04:31
JartzaI survived chernobyl also04:32
DocScrutinizerbut ist's actually funny how all of you try to talk down the obvious04:32
JartzaI was 14 then :)04:32
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javispedrohm.. why does everyone mention chernobyl here? Was the russian woodpecker involved in the earthquake?04:32
orlokjavispedro: nah.. stalker is a cool game04:32
doc|homejavispedro: paranoia and misunderstanding of the tech involved04:33
GeneralAntillesorlok: yes.04:33
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: maybe because it ewas the only comarative event ever happening?04:33
GeneralAntillesjavispedro: did council nominations close?04:33
doc|homeexcept it's not comparative... 3 mile island is...04:33
JartzaI'm still comparing this to three mile island more than chernobyl :)04:33
GeneralAntillesand 3 Mile Island did exactly . . . nothing.04:34
DocScrutinizerdoc|home: that's arguable04:34
doc|homechernobyl was still working at full capacity when it went pop04:34
javispedroGeneralAntilles: no msg yet, but I'd guess so.04:34
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: for you maybe...04:34
GeneralAntillesjavispedro: damn, I was thinking about tossing one of my Undeclinable Nominations on you. :P04:34
javispedroGeneralAntilles: achipa sneaked in the last minute.04:34
doc|homewhat's more, chernobyl is an different type of reactor04:34
DocScrutinizerno, for everybody. Actually you can't compare any of those past events04:34
GeneralAntillesDid he?04:34
GeneralAntillesThat man has his shit together.04:34
GeneralAntillesw00t_ still sucks, though.04:35
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: you suck! stand for voting04:35
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: I'm almost as jaded and bitter as you. No need for me to make it worse. :P04:36
* javispedro 's forgot about the full candidate list04:36
GeneralAntillesand everybody should vote for Felipe.04:36
javispedroeither way, if there's less than 5 there's no election04:36
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* javispedro is suddenly reminded of Elaine Marley04:37
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GeneralAntillesAye, but at least we'll have a council.04:39
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DocScrutinizerwell, do I really need to quote local TV N24 (asociated to CNN I guess)? >>Radiation increased *massively*, Japan Auth and Tokyo power corp say "extremely 'difficult' situation" (actually they used the term "fatally"), explosion in block2, fire in block4, ... errr I'm getting bored to parrot this while here we're arguing about halflife of sea water steam04:43
javispedrowake me up when a meteor crashes on it ;)04:44
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DocScrutinizerface it: the core meltdown is under way on several of those blocks, and things won't get better, only much much worse. A pity and I'm not happy about that, but also I'm not in panic, it's just the bitter truth04:45
Jartzayeah, they talked about 400 millisieverts already04:45
mtnbkrDocScrutinizer: agreed04:46
Jartzabut it's a pity they use microsieverts and millisieverts04:46
javispedroso what04:46
javispedroa core meltdown means the reactor is ruined, something one could already guess when they pumped in water into it (which tends to, well, ruin it)04:46
javispedroso I guess they're now debating wheter they will be able to dismantle it the normal way, or the fugly way.04:47
Jartzawhat I understood is that it's better to stop pumping the water in when it's melting?04:47
javispedronormal way as in "dangerously but normal fuel cycle", fugly way as in "bury everything, wait a few hundred years, unbury"04:48
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I guess htey are now discussing how to evacuate Tokyo04:48
javispedroyes, they're surely going to expand a 20km evacuation area into 300km04:49
DocScrutinizerwhich obviously isn't an option04:49
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DocScrutinizernah, they expanded it to 30 for now04:49
DocScrutinizerbut for mere feasibility reasons, more doesn't make sense as it's not doable04:50
Jartzaevacuation area is 20km, for 20-30km they asked people to stay inside, close air conditioning and windows04:50
Jartzamaybe it's time to start pumping the lead in the reactor :)04:50
DocScrutinizernot much of a difference though04:50
javispedroand I guess that's where the "this evacuation it's a friggin nuisance" vs "this evacuation is a nice gesture" line is.04:50
Jartzaor "this evacuation is just impossible"04:51
Jartza"let's just be polite" :)04:51
DocScrutinizerexactly Jartza04:51
DocScrutinizertheir last option failed. The prognostics of several *experts* about how such an event happens on such a type of reactor are just in time. It's about time for the real core meltdown, after the hydrogen explosions happened04:53
DocScrutinizernow that last one was a bit over the top04:54
DocScrutinizerbut actually, I can't see why everybody here is talking down the event while even tenco and gvmt are admitting it got as bad as it could04:55
javispedrobecause "it gets as bad as it can" is a complete nonstory04:55
DocScrutinizerthat's my words to quote their statements04:55
DocScrutinizerwell, meh04:56
javispedrowell, they were too quick to say "as bad as it could" then.04:56
javispedrobecause I can think of a few ways it could get way worse... and still be a nonstory...04:56
DocScrutinizerif you're not interested in truth but rather want to deny. I don't feel urged to report here04:56
JartzaI don't think I've denied the meltdown at any point :)04:57
Jartzaactually I already thought two days ago that most propably they'll get a meltdown as too many systems fucked up04:58
Jartzayou just can't cool down nuclear reactor with firetrucks04:58
Jartzaor maybe you can ONE, but not multiple at the same time04:58
DocScrutinizerJartza: ++05:00
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doc|homehydrogen explosion on reactor 4 allegedly05:04
nox-and fire...05:04
nox-(was on nhk world so official enough)05:04
doc|homethey mentioned a fire, had they mentioned an explosion? I'm guessing the outer containment again?05:05
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nox-i think they also talked about hydrogen explosion05:05
nox-(or am i mixing this up now?  its late here... :)05:06
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doc|home<******> Again, doing the math, a relative comparison suggests Fukushima is 0.00002% of the Chernobyl levels of radiation. These 'meltdowns' have nothing in common, unless you believe .000002% - below the mSv of a CT scan - is a public health threat.05:06
doc|home<******> that's a bit old, but CT scan is ~2mSv05:07
doc|homenow at 400mSv of course05:07
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doc|homeBREAKING NEWS: Fire at No.4 reactor apparently put out: Tokyo Electric05:19
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lofty306they did something rite05:24
lofty306the rest of this has been plaauged by the HomerSimpson effect05:25
doc|homeI don't remember homer having to deal with an 8.9 earthquake05:26
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doc|homewas that in one of the later, crappier, episodes?05:26
lofty306it did the quake fine  it was the flooding of the generators that did it in05:28
lofty306to think if they didnt scram with the quake the;d probably be fine ... but all nuke plants are set to scram at a quake05:29
DocScrutinizerwell, anyway allegedly the PV of #2 is broken05:30
lofty306yep thats what thee thinnking05:30
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DocScrutinizeralso they called out nuke emergency on Fuckishima-II plus 2 other plants05:31
lofty306crap so 5 & 6 are having issues now?05:31
DocScrutinizerI already wondered why we don't hear about Fukushima-II05:31
javispedrothe entire country is on a state emergency, in case you did not know...05:32
lofty306its rite next to plant #1 it has 2 reactors05:32
lofty306plant #1 has 4 reactors05:32
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: go debate the correct translation with somebody else05:32
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DocScrutinizererr, Fukushima Daiichi has 6 blocks, Fukushima Daini has 405:35
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DocScrutinizeraiui Daiichi commonly referred to as Fuku-I05:35
lofty306hmmm totaly confusing05:36
lofty306daiichi is where all the probs are?05:37
JartzaIsn't fukushima II daniee? :)05:37
javispedrodaiichi meaning the first, daini meaning the second =)05:37
Jartzaok :)05:37
DocScrutinizer to cure a bit of your confusion05:37
Jartzaso it's FFFFFUUUUUU and Fukushima II05:38
GeneralAntillesYou Europeans are up too late.05:40
* lofty306 was pppretty shure reactors 1-3 and a fire at 4 at plant 1 were having the issuess.05:41
javispedrotbh yes, doing stupid stuff as usual.05:41
Jartzayeah, going to sleep soon :)05:42
Jartzait's soon 6am :)05:42
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GeneralAntillesLeiberman needs to die already.05:45
Jartzaso nights everyone :)05:46
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doc|homeBREAKING NEWS: Small amounts of radioactive substances detected in Tokyo05:47
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lofty306anythng matching what was released from the reactors?05:50
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GeneralAntillesThat's better.05:50
doc|homelofty306: no more info than that05:52
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doc|homenikkei down 1000pts05:55
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lofty306did i just see rite nother blast at the nuke plant? or ther repeatiing themselves?05:57
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doc|homethere's been a 3rd one, then a fire which is now supposedly out05:58
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lofty306that is where i am for a few hours now06:03
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* DocScrutinizer yawns06:11
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DocScrutinizerI really wish they had "better weather" in Japan06:11
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DocScrutinizerthe sequence of events at Fukushima basically was inevitable once it was clear the mobile generators wouldn't make it, but the weather... :-/06:13
chxi just found The tsunami wave that hit the plant measured at least 7 metres in height, compared to the maximum 6.5 metre case the plant was designed to cope with.06:16
doc|homeyou know there's a guy with a hardhat, standing there, watching it saying "I fucking knew we should have built it higher"06:17
lofty306yep aand the quake was stronger than designed for though than didnt directly cause this06:17
doc|homethere's another plant even closer which had no issues :/06:18
lofty306and another saying " i told them to put the generators on the roof"06:18
doc|homeoh shit06:20
lofty306like highrise buildings put the dc generator for the elevator motors on the roof regardless of weather the elevator motors are in the basement or the tower06:21
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lofty306below it is either the floor of containment vessel or the coolant loop for the core and the heat exchanger to the 2nd loop06:23
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doc|homethat's 8mSv, right? not so bad06:24
doc|homelooks like this might not be that bad, relatively speaking06:25
doc|homeunless the shtf on this too06:25
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lofty306it was prob ond of the cooling loops that went06:26
lofty306if #2 not so bad cause it couldnt cool anything already  they were directlly ppumping seawater into the core06:27
lofty306byppassing the reg cooling setup06:27
doc|homewas already supposed to be off06:27
lofty306that too but they got that going again     after the explosiion in #206:28
lofty306the last explosion06:28
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DocScrutinizerdoc|home: consider the wind now directly transports from Fuku to Tokyo. Don't expect they miss to accidently insert a "m" if it wasn't milliS but Sievert. A panic in Tokyo would cause way more fatalities than whatver radiation might come from over there07:08
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: wind is moving west07:10
DocScrutinizerhmm, my weatherude shows forecasts that exactly hit Tokyo, with a little detour over inland, as wind will take some 10..20h to transport, and it's moving again counter clockwise during that period07:12
DocScrutinizerweather dude*07:12
luke-jrread the last post07:15
luke-jrwhat kind of idiot OCs to 1150 MHz and leaves it maxing out CPU?07:15
doc|homethe kind named Gokhan?07:15
doc|homehe'll have no battery life either07:15
luke-jrwell, that will only be a problem for a month or two07:16
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RST38hSooo, have we got another explosion?07:42
lofty3063 total sofar07:43
lofty306unless another in the last 30m or so07:43
RST38hthere are news that the 4th reactor exploded around 5:53MSK07:45
derfNot so much a new explosion as melty fuel rods in reactor 2.07:45
RST38hthat will be 3 hours ago07:45
derfRST38h: Just a fire, I think, not an explosion.07:45
RST38hAh, ok. A bit later then...07:45
lofty306fire on #4 they put that out  #2 exploded07:46
lofty306but internaly the outter buildiing is intact07:46
RST38hThe whole thing feels like a really cheap Japanese horror movie07:46
derfI assure you it's very expensive.07:47
lofty306they thought the inner coontainment may be effected and expanded the evacuation area07:47
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RST38hderf: Yea, I mean, it is not1.5 hours long!07:47
doc|homethis horror movie is going to last a LONG time... they're staring down the barrel of 7-8+ aftershock in the next couple of days, like incorporating another tsunami07:48
RST38hdoc: no way...07:48
doc|homeseemingly that's how these things play out07:48
doc|homelike any cheap horror movie07:48
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doc|homesame plot07:48
doc|homenight :(07:49
RST38hExcept there should be Godzilla comingout of the Tokyo bay any time now.07:49
derfI don't think aftershocks in Chile last year got aout 6.6.07:49
lofty306look at christs church it took a moonth or more for the big aftershoockk07:50
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vkvrajuI really feel sorry for whats happening to Japan now07:50
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Dantonichey how do I avoid the SASL identification with this server when trying to connect from my 3G network?07:50
lofty306after shooocks can be upto 1 whole number less than the orrigioonal07:50
Dantoniccan't connect to freenode from my 3G network07:51
lofty306use the web chat  ssh to another linbox not on tmo  , figure out how to install the sasl script07:52
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lofty306then tell me07:52
lofty306freenode has sasl scripts for irssi and xchat07:53
lofty306doont remember where they are07:54
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lofty306as i remember xchat on the n900 doont have python or perl installed07:55
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pupnik07:20 <+pupnik> "the cooling system failed"08:21
pupnik07:20 <+pupnik> is not an explanation of why the cooling system failed08:21
pupnik07:20 <@maggijo> yes it is08:21
pupnikpeople are stupid08:21
ds3failure of the cooling system could cause further failure of the cooling system ;)08:23
ds3recursive failures!08:23
RST38hstack overflow!08:23
pupnikthis was offered as an 'explanation' by two women seperately08:24
lofty306then coredump08:24
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ds3has anyone did a radiological survey to see how high the effected area is?08:27
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lofty306probaby but not telling us08:28
RST38hds3: 20km right now08:28
* ds3 goes to look up how high the jetstream is08:28
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lofty306they got geiger counters about the plant08:28
lofty306and outside08:29
ds3doh.. they start at 16km08:29
lofty306the uss reagan detected radiation 160miles off the coast and steemed outta the area08:29
ds3has anyone detected particles in the EU yet?08:29
pupnikTokyo Electric Power Company says radiation levels reached 8,217 microsieverts per hour near the front gate of the Fukushima No.1 nuclear power station at 8:31 AM Tuesday.08:30
pupnikbackground level there is around 0.035 mSv08:30
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ds3does the bot here convert from sieverts to curies?08:31
* RST38h detects a particle, catches it into a glass jar08:31
ds3think it is time to find a geiger counter and keep fresh batteries around :/08:32
lofty306wheres raster when you need him08:33
RST38hprobably digging a shelter08:33
ds3now if there was only a bluetooth geiger counter and have the N900 generate alerts based on that08:34
lofty306they did detect rads  in tokyo but didnt elaborte08:34
lofty306HONG KONG (MarketWatch) -- Radiation levels in Tokyo surged to 23 times normal on Tuesday, according to reports that cited readings released by the Tokyo metropolitan government.08:36
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timeless_w7ipSpeedEvil: did you find the password manager?08:37
timeless_w7ipstart adding a bookmark08:38
timeless_w7ipchange the name to Password Manager08:38
timeless_w7ipchange the url to chrome://passwordmgr/content/passwordManager.xul08:38
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lofty306 this may help ds308:41
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ds3I've seen charts like that before in curies08:44
lofty306put one next to other?08:45
lofty306im loosing it08:45
ds3or was that rads08:45
* timeless_w7ip kicks lofty30608:47
pupnikFound it:  "The problem, Mr Wilson said, was that the hook-up is done through electric switching equipment that is in a basement room flooded by the tsunami."
* timeless_w7ip slit's lofty306's tongue08:47
* timeless_w7ip lets loose some blood08:47
* lofty306 glues it back on and typoes timeless_w7ip to insanity08:48
timeless_w7ipdo not use a loose tongue, you will lose respect of your peers08:48
lofty306well put timeless_w7ip08:48
timeless_w7iplofty306: i just got a reply from a game designer who was shipping a game w/ "You Loose" (i.e. "You [female] Slut")08:48
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timeless_w7ipit seems to be a common mistake08:49
timeless_w7ipbut it's rather unfortunate08:49
timeless_w7ipin some parts of the world >50% of the audience is female08:49
RST38hMeanwhile in Brunei:!5781866/the-sultan-of-bruneis-rotting-supercar-collection08:49
timeless_w7ipand in your average game, "Game Over" is the standard end case08:50
timeless_w7ipwhich means everyone will see it08:50
RST38hHow many people will interpret "loose" as "slut"?08:51
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RST38hGoogle dictionary lists this meaning as item #11 =)08:52
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timeless_w7iphit two is disturbing: [NSFW]08:55
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lofty306oh geez caNT STop laughing08:59
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timeless_xchatwell that sucked08:59
timeless_xchatmy ideapad started chirping09:00
timeless_xchati was afraid it was having a heart attack09:00
timeless_xchati started recording it with my n90009:00
timeless_xchatand then it blue screened09:00
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lofty306you can always count on a blue screen at soome ppoinnt09:01
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lofty306timeless_xchat, any ideas for a decent touchpadd? not to expensive?09:03
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lofty306prob atom cpu09:03
timeless_xchatso, most of the ones i've seen suck09:04
timeless_xchati have a lenovo s10-3t because it was a give-away to meego conf dublin attendees09:04
lofty306imlooking exopc but its like $70009:04
lofty306but it seems whimpy spec wise to others i see but cant find09:05
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* timeless_xchat goes off to install ie909:09
timeless_xchateww, that's scary09:10
lofty306haha just clicked install ie909:10
timeless_xchatmse claims the ie9 installer turned it off09:10
lofty306and it is now pushing ie8 on me09:10
lofty306i clickked to d/l ie909:11
timeless_xchatbtw, are you using ie to trigger the download?09:12
lofty306geuss its for w709:12
timeless_xchatdid it offer w32/w64 or just one flavor?09:12
lofty306ijust put xppro in a vm it not like that09:12
timeless_xchatyeah um, xp is kinda on an EoL process09:13
lofty306never got to dl it it saw xp and said install ie8 that is already installed09:13
timeless_xchatit'll get there around 2014 iirc09:13
lofty306heh i just need win for one activ x site i gotta use09:14
timeless_xchatyou have my sympathies09:14
lofty306tell me about it  havent got the mouse speed to cooperate yet in the vm09:15
lofty306modiified it in controll panel but its still screwie09:16
lofty306aatleast i doont gotta boot into it anymore09:17
timeless_xchatit's equivalent to running Red Hat 7.2 (Enigma) today09:17
timeless_xchatdo you remember Enigma?09:17
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lofty306i never did rhh09:17
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timeless_xchatfor perspective, 7.2 was roughly RHEL2.109:18
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lofty306started on suse8.2 that lasted a month till i installed gentoo been there ever since though i got ubuntubbies on my laptops now09:19
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timeless_xchatthe debian equivalent was Potato09:20
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timeless_xchatit was released in 2000 and EoL was 200409:20
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timeless_xchatcan someone tell me if Slink is really still supported?09:21
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lofty306now watching your blue screen of death09:24
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timeless_xchatthe suse equivalent is 7.3 and its EoL was in 200309:25
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timeless_xchatthe equivalent OS X is 10.1 Puma09:37
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lofty306crap dd of a cd to an .iso and humming away at top speed driiving me nutss09:37
timeless_xchatapple doesn't announce EoLs, but it was effectively dead mid 200209:37
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timeless_xchatand was definitely dead in 200409:38
timeless_xchat... people really don't appreciate microsoft's long support periods09:39
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lofty306618061824 bytes (618 MB) copied, 239.456 s, 2.6 MB/s09:39
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timeless_xchatfor some reason, my favorite windows program has decided to show strings in random languages09:41
timeless_xchati've seen one cjk, a romanian, and i think a spanish and a german09:42
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timeless_xchatit appears to have been the c of cjk09:45
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timeless_xchatanyway, the app is Soluto09:49
timeless_xchatfwiw, microsoft isn't quite alone09:50
timeless_xchatSolaris 8 was released in 2000 and its EoL is 201209:50
timeless_xchatSolaris 9 was released 2002/2003 and its EoL is 201409:51
ruskiewell but then sun boxes tend to be... drop it in and never think about it again...09:51
ruskieatleast from what I've heard09:51
ruskievery solid build quality and so on09:51
ruskiefew failures09:51
Veggenruskie: depends on usage.09:51
ruskieso it would make sense to have long support periods09:51
timeless_xchatgenerally yeah09:52
timeless_xchatmy solaris box was living in the basement at work for a long time09:52
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timeless_xchatsadly it got stuck and i forgot how to configure networking09:52
timeless_xchatso now it's in my office waiting for me to poke it09:52
ruskienever really know how to do it so always had to look up stuff when I did set it up09:53
timeless_xchatthe hazard of a box that's too stable... you don't remember how to use it09:53
* timeless_xchat nods09:53
ruskiebut we sold those on to the main office09:53
chxruskie: well dont drop it in from too high and then yes they go for 10-20 years without a tick09:54
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ruskiechx, that's generally the info I got09:55
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timeless_xchatpoor Windows 2000 reached EoL last year09:57
timeless_xchatand i was using that in '99 or thereabouts09:57
lofty306my sun was installed with solaris 10 like 2-3 of more years ago and i forgot how to do anythign on it but use it it never goes haywire09:57
timeless_xchat(starting w/ nt5b2 iirc)09:57
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lofty306though i did at the time add  root and bash to maake life simple09:58
lofty306though i did at the time i did add  root and bash to maake life simple09:59
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lofty306i was still using w2k last week till i needed activX10:00
lofty306after  i blew up xp on my netbook not un turboing the boot while installing another os10:02
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timeless_xchatmy desktop here still runs w2k, but it has hardware issues and i rarely use it10:03
timeless_xchatit's from '9810:03
lofty306so i put w2k in a vm see if i can flash things from the vm10:04
lofty306and yeah you geeussed it linux devices that only give you a loader to flash them from windows10:05
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timeless_xchatgrr, the windows os page on wikipedia is locked10:06
lofty306hehe M$ prob wewrites it  glorifying it to often10:07
DocScrutinizerlofty306: you're telling gibberish10:07
DocScrutinizerlofty306: what's that ""linux devices that only give you a loader to flash them from windows""?10:08
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DocScrutinizeryeah is a linux device?10:09
lofty306embedded linux and they only give me a loader that runs on windows10:09
DocScrutinizerthat's really poor product support10:10
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lofty306hmm i cant seem to get controll of the usb port from the vm10:14
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DocScrutinizerlofty306: that's a known problem. IIRC there are suggestions how to solve that, but generally USB support in a VM is different to the real thing, and differs from VM to VM10:48
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SpeedEviltimeless_xchat: Wow! That's so intuitive! :)10:55
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SpeedEvilA generic 'USB over foo' bridge protocol would be lovely.10:58
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robbiethe1stHm... USB over UDP. That -would- be cool.10:58
ruskieI thought there was USB over TCP already10:58
robbiethe1stWell, that'd work too, I suppose10:58
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timeless_xchatspeedevil: iirc there's a wiki page that talks about it11:03
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timeless_xchatsearch the channel logs for the url11:03
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SpeedEvilNot doing right now - it's pouring with rain, and I'm getting ready to bring in a massive load of insulation that I ordered.11:05
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dashavooMorning all11:09
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DocScrutinizersure there is USBoTCP11:10
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MohammadAGI wonder how I could get the last character from a QString...11:55
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MohammadAGendsWith() o_O11:56
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RST38hMohammadAGL OMG12:02
RST38hA rich API!12:02
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JaffaMorning, all12:29
* SpeedEvil is trying to convince himself he's feeling energetic.12:31
MohammadAGmorning Jaffa12:32
* RST38h hits SpeedEvil on the head with an OS/370 manual12:33
RST38hgood mourning to you too12:33
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achipaRST38h: the proper mispronounciation is "good moaning"12:45
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[DrkGUNMAN-N900]I thought it was 'gooed moening'12:59
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achipanope, definitely moaning
trxso its gooed moaning? :)13:02
achipaI'll leave that to the language experts :P13:02
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viszanyone tried swappolube?13:31
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SpeedEvilMany people, not me.13:32
SpeedEvilIt's just tweaking the kernel tweakables a bit.13:33
viszseems so13:33
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Khertanvisz: i use it why ?13:34
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viszit's not in repository, but i guess it's safe to use13:36
trxits not?13:37
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trxits in extras-testing13:38
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viszah, there was something wrong with my apt-cache13:44
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visznokia shipping the free E714:57
RST38hMine is still on the DHL truck though14:58
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* dashavoo , right now, wishes he could quit his job15:05
dashavooI don't cope with stress well15:05
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marmoutedashavoo: what's your jobs ?15:32
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marmoutechief operator at Tecpo in the north of tokyo ?15:35
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Khertanit s not funny.15:40
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ruskie <-- interesting15:41
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* RST38h hails three copies of javispedro16:16
javispedroblame this multi channel madness =)16:17
javispedroand morning, all.16:17
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javispedroomg qgil at the qradio thread16:22
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javispedroand blaming qtmobility!16:22
RST38hqgil blaming qmobility? omg16:23
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RST38hhe is wearing thin, poor guy! =)16:23
javispedroI guess this is because QtMobility's Maemo radio support being incomplete is not subject to debate nor marketing.16:24
Khertanruskie: indeed ... interesting16:24
Khertanqgil blaming something ? omg :)16:25
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SpeedEvilinteresting indeed ruskie16:27
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dangergrrland clue why tethering would fail?17:02
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lcukdangergrrl, you used a slipknot?17:10
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lolcatCan't I just run Dalvik on my phone?17:17
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javispedroobviously you can!17:21
javispedrojust upload it and execute it.17:22
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rm_workactually, i'm with lolcat, i still don't understand why we can't run dalvik if the team is demoing it and it appears to work... we're just... not allowed? do we have to pirate it or something? >_>17:23
rm_workI thought it had been demo'd ON an n90017:24
javispedroforgive me for not having stolen the poor guy's N900.17:24
alteregoYou can't pirate something that isn't out. And why don't you just wait for them to release it ..17:24
rm_workeveryone keeps telling me that we'll never see it released for n90017:25
alteregoYup, and they're probably right17:25
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rm_workbut it works. I've seen it work (in videos at least)17:25
rm_workso... do i have to go break into the developer's server to get it? :/17:26
javispedrodevelopers tend not to like that.17:26
rm_worki tend to not like people who taunt me with a working solution and then stuff it away on a shelf17:26
rm_workso they can go fuck themselves17:26
rm_workI'd buy it if they let me17:27
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lolcatalterego: Google have released Dalvik17:30
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rm_workwell, i'm at least talking about Alien Dalvik17:31
rm_workpossibly different?17:31
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lolcatrm_work: Who has it? we should beg for them to sell/borrow us the code17:32
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Jaffarm_work: You don't _know_ it was working beyond 3 functions (roughly(17:33
rm_workJaffa: i suppose that's true17:34
rm_workit could be smoke and mirrors17:34
rm_worktheir page uses n900 as their device :P17:34
* lolcat estnt them an email17:34
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lolcatHow much do you think alien dalvik can cost?17:35
lolcatCan't one of the devs here get a job there and leak it?17:36
rm_workJaffa: rewatching the demo video, it appears they are actually running applications and doing stuff in them...17:36
ccookelolcat: I don't think it's currently a consumer product - nor is there an indication they're going to release it as one17:36
lolcatI asked if I could try or buy it17:36
lolcatccooke: That is pure evilness17:37
rm_workthough the demo of googlemaps cuts off really quickly so i wonder if it wasn't working well17:37
ccookeAll they've talked about is licensing it for individual apps17:37
rm_workyeah, it is sad, they are developing it on n900, and then saying "sorry, we won't release this for n900 ever" >_>17:37
rm_workwhich is ridiculous17:37
lolcatYeah, they could release a limited version for the N900 only17:38
ccookerm_work: I suspect it's just ugly to use.17:38
rm_worki'm imagining some doctors come up with a cure for cancer, and then say "sorry, but this isn't for use by anyone, we're just going to show you it works and then put it in a vault"17:38
lolcatSo we could have it17:38
ccookethat is, individual apps work fine, but running the market and using that to install apps is probably badly broken17:38
rm_workdo you think people wouldn't storm the gates with pitchforks then? >_>17:38
lolcatccooke: Who needs the marked? We could make our own marked...17:38
rm_workit's a ridiculous analogy but i think it illustrates the point17:38
ccookerm_work: there's quite a difference, though. Nobody is going to die for lack of android apps on the n90017:39
rm_worki'd be 100% happier with n900 just from running the real google-maps app17:39
lolcatrm_work: We should threathen to make a free open-source version17:39
ccookerm_work: not really. They have no duty or moral imperative to release their software.17:39
rm_worklolcat: i don't think they'd care17:39
lolcatrm_work: They couldn't sell it if we made a free version17:39
lolcatI want Spotify offline on my N90017:40
ccookeI mean, I'm *dissapointed*, but I don't see how we'd have any right to hate them over it17:40
rm_workso instead, they should for some reason just save us the work and make it free because we threaten to possibly make it free in the future? >_>17:40
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rm_worki firmly believe it is morally wrong to withold software that solves common problems... if you wrote it, and you don't ever plan to sell it, JUST LET PEOPLE HAVE IT.17:41
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rm_workof course, i also believe that software patents need to be abolished17:41
rm_workbut it's especially annoying when they taunt us with it17:42
javispedrowell there's some problems with that17:42
ccookerm_work: Okay. I agree over software patents, but... I do not believe that this solves a common problem. What's more, they are actively gtrying to sell it.17:43
rm_workit's more akin I suppose to holding a treat above a puppy's nose and never letting them have it17:43
fralsand you are also a sw developer by trade putting everything out as foss?17:43
javispedroif you start giving it out you're discarding making a dime out of it in the far future.17:43
rm_workfrals: i would if i was allowed17:43
rm_workbut, like i said, if they were willing to sell it i would just buy it17:43
rm_workbut from what i'17:43
rm_work*from what i've been told, it will just *not be available*17:43
rm_workthus: "if you wrote it, and you don't ever plan to sell it, JUST LET PEOPLE HAVE IT."17:44
ccookerm_work: it will... for individual apps.17:44
ccookeand possibly not on n900.17:44
javispedroand paid by oems, which have way more money than end users..17:44
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rm_workwell, i have to go to a meeting, and i assume this discussion will be over when i get back, but17:45
rm_workif my company was going to do something similar, I would definitely leak the software to the public, because doing otherwise i would feel morally wrong17:45
rm_worksoftware is meant to be used17:45
ccookerm_work: they *are* trying to use it.17:46
* javispedro watches rm_work grew stallman-like beard.17:46
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ccookeJust not in exactly the way *you* (well... we) want17:46
rm_worki met stallman, he's a childish ass, but he has some damn good points17:46
rm_workhad dinner with him actually.... disturbingly specific about his food too...17:47
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* rm_work goes to meeting17:47
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RST38hjavispedro: he will also need a teakettle and a plastic bag with the tea17:55
RST38hOh, wait, he will also need flippers17:55
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thebootroohello everyone18:03
thebootrooi'm qt apps developer and i just created a page with my best creations (in beta stage), can i show you ?18:03
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thebootrooATm its just a page on my other site but i'm planning to put download link for .deb packages as soon i success in doing one18:04
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chem|stthebootroo: would like to see them in extras if you mind18:05
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thebootroowhy not int future18:05
thebootroowhat do you think about the ui stuff ?18:08
Jaffathebootroo: Uploading them to Extras(-devel) is better than shipping random binary debs18:11
thebootrooi not sure, i'll surely provide my own installer script cause the built int App manager is a crap and fappman is just better but not as i want18:13
thebootroo(i'm a non-easily satisfied person you know)18:14
lcukthebootroo, the HAM has backup/restore capabilities18:14
lcukand *works*18:14
lcukit might be sluggish, but better that than having to rummage around for your random deb18:14
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thebootrooi've already started an app store like program18:14
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lcukMaemo extras process is designed to care for your source and packages :)18:14
thebootrooyou will not have to rummage18:15
* lcuk nods18:15
lcukbut how will user install our app store after flashing?18:15
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lcukcurrently I go to backup and restore from settings18:15
thebootroojust dl one app using the way you want and this app will be used to install others apps18:15
* lcuk notes that an app mall will be better principle :)18:16
thebootrooits just an very simple and beautiful app to install/remove/update the apps i provide on my ftp18:17
Jaffathebootroo: If you're starting your own "app store" project, you should engage other devs sooner rather than later, so it's not viewed a) with suspicion and b) as an installer for your own apps only18:18
thebootrooin the first time it WILL be a store for my apps only18:18
lcukthebootroo, note, MeeGo DeveloperEdition has no custom user front end for installing apps18:18
Jaffathebootroo: <devil's-advocate>Meaning it (and they) doesn't go through any of the QA of Extras; don't get the publicity and discoverability of or HAM; disappear when you do; ...</devil's-advocate>18:18
thebootrooand next i'll add a custom repos functions18:19
thebootrooyou know, in the very poor HAM, the apps will be flooded in the mass so not better18:19
thebootroousers really need a better App Sotre18:20
thebootroobut as i dont use the same schema as HAM i cant support all pakages out-of-the-box18:20
thebootrooi'm not in the optic of a geek who customize his phone an brick it every week, but a standard user that want simpler apps for daily usage18:22
thebootroocause BTW a power user knows apt-get and dpkg so he can install manually apps (as i do personnaly, i prefer using Xterm + apt to upgrade instead of HAM or fapman18:23
lcukpssst power users are lazy too ;)18:23
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thebootrooyes that's why i prefer typing one line of text instead of clicking and waiting a couple of time18:24
thebootrooabout the UI, did you noticed i use mainly a customized version of Harmattan Ui guidelines ?18:25
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lcukthebootroo, how do you gainroot without using ham?18:25
thebootrooi use scripting behing my qt app18:25
lcuki mean at first18:25
lcukto install stuff with the console18:25
lcukyou need to install rootsh18:25
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lcukie, have to already go through the pain18:25
thebootrooi'm looking into a possibility to install the programs in home18:26
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thebootroo(very light programs and single user phone so no problem virtually)18:27
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thebootrooso, guys, i have to go18:28
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MohammadAG thoughts?18:57
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rm_worklooks neat19:39
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MohammadAGshot with an N900, it pwns the N819:42
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timeless_xchathi rm19:42
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rm_workhey timeless_xchat19:43
rm_workhow goes it19:43
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trxMohammadAG good job19:43
timeless_xchati'm watching sp3000 play w/ an n819:43
MohammadAGtimeless_xchat, I'm assuming you got bored already19:44
MohammadAGtrx, thanks :D19:44
timeless_xchatmohammadag: yep19:44
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rm_worktimeless_xchat: you trying to kill my neck? :P19:48
rm_workkeep twisting my neck back and forth looking at this slideshow as the pics keep alternating their rotation 180d19:48
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MohammadAGthe N8 isn't really that fun19:49
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timeless_xchati blame the n900 image viewer19:49
timeless_xchati used it to rotate19:49
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MohammadAGtimeless_xchat, is there any plugin that can forward flv files to the mediaplayer?19:50
MohammadAG(greasemonkey or otherwise)19:50
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timeless_xchati'm personally lobbying for totem19:52
timeless_xchatbut you could get your own plugin that works like the nokia media plugin19:53
MohammadAGwell, I have no experience in making FF addons19:53
MohammadAGand I'm really bored with having to update scripts to get flv links to the mediaplayer19:53
timeless_xchatnpapi, not ffaddons19:53
MohammadAGtotem isn't on the N900 :P19:53
timeless_xchatnetscape plugin api19:53
MohammadAGwell, that too19:54
timeless_xchatsupported by opera and others19:54
MohammadAGso I'd rather have something to edit instead of code one from scratch19:54
timeless_xchatflv isn't a plugin type19:54
timeless_xchatyou're actually triggering .swf19:54
MohammadAGwhich gets the flv19:54
timeless_xchati'd suggest you look at what real's downloader does19:54
MohammadAGor flashblockcss?19:55
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: rtmpdump - sorta19:55
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* DocScrutinizer yawns20:17
* n900evil yodels.20:18
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RST38hEnjoy :)20:28
ShadowJKI saw this on theregister yesterday :)20:29
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* MohammadAG curses 2.6.3820:35
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you're right20:36
MohammadAG^ on a new device20:36
RST38h"We may not have or be able to recruit, retain and motivate appropriately skilled employees to implement successfully the Windows Phone smartphone platform and to work effectively and efficiently with Microsoft and the related ecosystem."20:36
* RST38h laughs diabolically, eats a toadstool20:36
javispedro"For example, our association with the Microsoft brand may impair our current strong market position in China"20:37
MohammadAGchina? I thought those guys only bought nokla20:37
javispedro"The proposed Microsoft partnership may cause dissatisfaction and adversely affect the terms on which we do business with our other partners, mobile operators, distributors and suppliers, or foreclose the ability to do business with new partners, mobile operators, distributors and suppliers. "20:37
javispedroand for the paranoid: "We may be required or choose to share with Microsoft personal or consumer data that has been made available to us"20:38
RST38hReading this text, one may assume that "microsoft" is some kind of a deadly virus20:38
javispedrocombine that with the mynokia/cherry fiasco ;)20:38
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javispedro"Consumers may be more reluctant to provide personal data to us as a result of the proposed Microsoft partnership" lol20:39
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RST38hThe Windows Phone platform is a very recent, largely unproven addition to the market focused solely on high-end smartphones with currently very low adoption and consumer awareness relative to the Android and Apple platforms, and the proposed Microsoft partnership may not succeed in developing it into a sufficiently broad competitive smartphone platform.20:40
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javispedro"We plan to ship a MeeGo-based mobile product later this year. If the market segment that we target with that mobile product does not materialize as expected, or if we fail to develop next-generation platforms, user experiences and mobile products, we may incur operating losses and accordingly not realize a return on our investment in this area. "20:40
javispedro^^^ which "market segment"... ?20:40
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RST38hjavispedro: geeks!20:41
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RST38hjavispedro: but the wording is really weird there20:41
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RST38h"or if we fail to develop next-generation platforms,20:41
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RST38huser experiences and mobile products" <=== weird20:41
ShadowJKWell... MicroSoft has had like two decades of acting like a big corporation raping the users, they've been throttled back a bit as a result. Nokia's MyNokia and Ovi's undeletable Credit card number database are acting like the big corporation it isn't... so I'd probably feel safer giving my data to microsoft than nokia. Microsoft, Nokia, Google. In that order :-)20:41
RST38hSo, they still believe they NEED to develop stuff based on Meego20:41
javispedrogeeks do not fail to materialize ;)20:41
javispedroyoung hypsters, on the other side...20:41
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RST38hShadowJK: Not really20:42
RST38hShadowJK: Microsoft is really lousy about the data it collects20:42
RST38hjavispedro: hipsters buy iPhone.20:42
javispedro"Our management attention in smartphones and in the establishment of the new ecosystem for smartphones with Microsoft may result in less management attention paid to our mobile phones business. "20:42
RST38hAnd whoever these people are, there still was enough of them to make N900 a hit20:43
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RST38hIt is not exactly an iPhone, but most geeks know what it is and crave it20:43
* javispedro expects to read "a tsunami might hit one of our HQs, therefore impairing our ability to fulfill our deal with the devil..."20:44
chxwas the N900 a hit?20:44
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RST38h"In choosing to adopt Windows Phone as our primary smartphone platform, we may forgo more competitive alternatives achieving greater and faster acceptance in the smartphone market."20:44
RST38hchx: yes, according to sales figures20:44
chxin that case what moron stopped to follow up on the sucess? *facepalm*20:44
RST38hjavispedro: This should read "If tsunami hits Mirosoft's HQ, thus impairing our ability to fullfill..."20:45
ShadowJKSEC filings are required to be pessimistic :)20:45
RST38hchx: Do watch "The Adventures of Baron Munhausen" by Terry Gilliam20:45
RST38hchx: It explains what happened at the very beginning20:46
timeless_w7ipjavispedro: where's this stuff coming from?20:46
javispedrosec filling at
RST38hShadowJK: Oh of course. But it is how directional and concrete this pessimism is...20:46
javispedro*filing :20:47
MohammadAGis it me or is Texrat's last message on maemo-community... weird?20:47
timeless_w7ipno, for textrat's thing20:47
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: no, for texrat's thing20:47
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javispedroRST38h: chx: funnily enough, the N900 itself is one of the few phones mentioned in the text.20:49
javispedro(and I am yet to find any other nokia phone reference...)20:50
javispedroah yes20:50
timeless_w7ipjavispedro: it may have been the only phone whose sales weren't in line w/ expectations20:50
chxN8 is mentioned20:50
javispedrothere's the C7 C6 E7 N8 mentioned at environment stuff20:50
javispedrogreen manufacture, etc.20:51
javispedro"Our latest smartphone models—the Nokia C7, Nokia C6-01, Nokia E7 and Nokia N8—represent an important step in making our product portfolio more environmentally friendly, in that they make use of renewable and recycled materials such as bio-paints, bio-plastics and recycled metals. The Nokia C7 is the industry’s first mobile device to use bio paints and ..."20:51
RST38hinvestors don't care about that20:52
timeless_w7iprst: some investers do strange investment strategies20:52
timeless_w7ipe.g. dumping stocks over environmental policy20:52
bmani got a eco friendly phone20:52
bmanlg remarq20:52
bmanmade with mostly recycled materials20:53
bmanincluding the packaging20:53
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* javispedro still doesn't get the tablet craze.21:02
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* javispedro is actually for some reason doing objc development at the moment ;)21:07
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javispedroor should I say smalltalkC.21:08
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njsfand people bitch about C++21:15
njsfobj-C is such a bolt-on21:15
njsfcompletely foreign syntax to a C coder21:16
njsfonly thing that is good is the complete separation of interface / implementation21:16
njsfas in you can implement more methods on the obj-c class than you declare on its interface21:17
njsfwithout having to spell it out fully on the header file21:17
njsfthat alone is a boon for maintenability and containment of recompile21:17
javispedroyou still have to declare ivars on the interface...21:17
jaskathe syntax makes me hurl21:17
timeless_w7iphave you guys seen Obj-C++ ? :)21:18
* RST38h yawns and goes over email21:18
njsfRST38h: I'll take a nap :)21:19
javispedrotimeless_w7ip: spectacular is what happens when you try to merge both, as, apart from both reinventing OO, both have some kind of exception support, runtime type information, etc.21:19
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MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, seriously? :P21:20
kerionjsf: it's not necessarily bad though21:20
kerio(the very different syntax from C)21:20
javispedroyou can bet that for ex. on a C++ calling delete on a ObjC class won't do what you think, and that adding a class with a destructor  inside a objc class won't cause the c++ destructor to be invoked..21:20
keriothey're both bad ideas anyway21:20
RST38hjavispedro: will be abomination either way21:21
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njsfkerio: Well it does make it feel a bolt21:22
ShadowJKhildon desktop crashed at some point21:23
keriocan objc be checked, at least?21:23
* ShadowJK ponders how to get system menu widgets back21:24
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know what the metal hook-like piece on the inside of the battery cover is?21:25
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anapospastoshi guys, any idea about this?
javispedrobut you're probably on a wrong channel..21:27
anapospastosoh yes21:28
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bmanMohammadAG, what device?21:31
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ShadowJKah, killall hildon-status-menu fixed21:32
RST38hbtw how do I reload the cpu load meter that crashed?21:32
bmancant help then, but on n800 there is a piece that shields the sd card21:33
MohammadAGif it didn't bring it back, killall again21:33
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MohammadAG(status menu goes in safe mode sometimes)21:33
RST38hyou mean killingall status menu?21:33
MohammadAGbrb, swapping batts21:34
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bmanshow me a pic MohammadAG21:37
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phap hello everyone21:53
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DocScrutinizer  ((DocScrutinizer: duh, now 5 coremelts pending))  Shit, I hate to say it, but seems they now accepted maybe ALL 6 blocks at FUKU-I do whatever an unattended unmaintained reactor likes to do. I.E now 6 pending22:05
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DocScrutinizermaybe #5 and #6 are so much chilled down (cold shutdown) so they remain stable even without any maintenance/cooling22:07
DocScrutinizerbut that's all but clear right now22:07
anidelfor some reason if I put my device on a flat surface, the MCE reports it a in "portrait" mode (albeit no "rotate" signal has been emitted via DBUS ) :(22:08
DocScrutinizercoremelts on #1..#3 are a safe bet now however22:08
anidelanyone knows a workaround?22:08
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chxwow the accident got upgraded to SIX?22:09
DocScrutinizeranidel: strange. Try removing battery for some seconds. Sometimes LIS302 accelerometer chip gets decalibrated22:09
anidelno it doesn't happen to me only...22:10
DocScrutinizeranidel: oh, sorry then. No idea22:10
anidelthanks anyway :)22:10
GeneralAntillesanidel: thanks to the camera hump?22:10
anidellet's see22:11
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: that'd be really bad22:11
anidelno, and that only happens when I put the device in portrait mode (so Xournal rotates to Portrait) and then put it flat..22:12
DocScrutinizerthere should be a dead zone that doesn't trigger orientation changes until screen surface at least at 45° from flat22:12
anidelat that point, if I read the orientation, it returns "portrait"22:12
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DocScrutinizeranidel: so that's absolutely OK22:12
DocScrutinizerit technically is22:12
anidelbut no signal has been sent.. so the UI is portrait, but the item I'm going to show after the reading is the landscape one (a toolbar)22:12
anidelsorry.. I was wrong.. it reports "landscape"22:13
anidelone workaround I have is to store the orientation when the DBUS signal arrives...and don't read it from the MCE anymore22:14
anidelbut.. it's a workaround :P)22:14
DocScrutinizerhmm, sounds like you're comparing the actually real physical orientation of device as reported by some sensor, to the X orientation that stays in portrait when you turn the device flat from physical upright portrait22:15
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DocScrutinizerapps mustn't read out sensor to get orientation, the must use the means that are provided via X or whatever22:16
anidelI'm asking the MCE for MCE_DEVICE_ORIENTATION_GET22:16
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DocScrutinizeras long as it's about display orientation22:16
anidelif the UI is in portrait, it should return the same22:16
anidelthat is true, but that is what the official Maemo Documentation told us developers.. Conboy and others do the same..22:17
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anidelConboy stores the orientation and relies on that.. I do read the MCE after the DBUS signal has been sent, it should have been the same.. either is a bug or something else22:17
DocScrutinizerMCE_DEVICE_ORIENTATION_GET sounds like PHYSICAL device orientation, which obviously isn't always identical to screen or display rotation/orientation22:17
DocScrutinizerit's a bug in how you use, and interpret the semantics of, some signals22:18
anideltrue in most case, but it DOES know that the devices is flat on the ground.. so it shouldn't report "landscape" when it doesn't know it22:19
anidelactually.. hang on22:19
DocScrutinizeractually it should report FALT22:19
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DocScrutinizerwhich basically is neither LANDSCAPE nor PORTRAIT22:20
anidelah! it may be my bug after all! I'm comparing what it returns against "portrait"... and I am assuming (as it is different) than that it is in landscape!22:20
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anidelI'll check what is actually returning...22:20
DocScrutinizerbut as mentioned above, that's absolutely deprecated for deciding which display orientation to use22:20
anidelthanks Doc.. that opened my eyes22:20
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anidelwell it is not.. if in that case it reports like "unknown" that it is fine...22:21
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DocScrutinizerbut please pretty please ask MohammadAG about which X flag to query about orientation, instead of talking to MCE22:21
anidelit's just me that I was only dealing with "portrait"/"landscape" ignoring it knows also "flat" or "face down"22:21
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anidelas you said.. it should report FLAT or FACE UP or similar.. as said, it's my error in assuming that != "portrait" then is "landscape".. not MCE's fault.22:22
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pupnikmy speakers are VMPS RM/222:23
DocScrutinizerit's your error to talk to MCE at all, rather than ask X orientation of display, which might get locked to portrait even when device is objectively in a landscape position, and vice versa22:23
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DocScrutinizeras said before:22:24
DocScrutinizerbut please pretty please ask MohammadAG about which X flag to query about orientation, instead of talking to MCE22:24
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DocScrutinizeras long as your app isn't a spirit-level or s stepcounter or the like, it MUST NOT talk to mce about physical device orientation22:25
infobotThe key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED",  "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119.22:25
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DocScrutinizerespecially display orientation got NOTHING to deal with accelerometer readings as of mce. Screen orientation is an abstract thing you have to read out from X22:27
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DocScrutinizerplease ask MohammadAG about it, as he's dealing with general portrait support in maemo now, for CSSU22:28
DocScrutinizerthanks for your attention22:29
MohammadAGfor Gtk, use Gdk screen size-changed signal22:30
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MohammadAGfor Qt, resized(int) from QDesktopWidget22:30
DocScrutinizerthank you, MohammadAG22:31
trxif width>height then horizontal22:31
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anidelI know what MUST NOT mean. that was what available at that time. I work and have little time. My app already uses MCE for that. I'll fix the issue. I promise to look at listening to Gdk screen size-changed events and if it does not require much time I'll implement it that way. Promise. But if it requires time, no matter how people scream I will not change the code. Sorry. But I am looking at it right now.22:32
trxyou check your main form's width and height22:33
trxwhats takes time?22:33
DocScrutinizeranidel: then your app will break, as it is faking portrait on a supposed landscape display, that in fact got resized to portrait22:34
DocScrutinizeror any other permutation of the states not matching22:34
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anidelI'm not faking anything... I'm using (now) these orientation states from the McE:
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trxanidel you really dont need them, thats what he is trying to explain22:37
anidelI am no stupid :) I understood that.22:37
anidelBut the change may take too long and I simply may not have time to do it.22:38
trxyou simply see if your app's width > height = horizontal22:38
trxthats my sugesstion, take it or leave it :)22:38
Spydemonhey all :-)22:38
anidelI'm not complaining about suggestions :) I accept them22:38
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anidelI know and understand I should do that.. that is clear.22:39
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trxok then :)22:39
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anidelbut I think the MCE is used to detect for example if the devices if facing down or app22:39
Spydemoni've buy a n900 today x)22:39
trxthen you arent looking for current orientation of the application but the device's rotation xyz22:40
DocScrutinizerwe're happy to include your app to the list of broken apps that mustn't get switched to portrait by standard means as they want to mess around with it by themselves. We got a few of those already. All of those also don't benefit from orientation lock implemented in newest CSSU22:40
anidelso.. all I am saying, is that MCE is still reliable... not the perfect solution, I know and I'll try to change...22:40
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DocScrutinizermce is simply plain WRONG and not 'reliable' for this particular purpose22:41
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anidelDoc I appreciate what you're trying to do. A lot. But I've never appreciated your tone. Again "happy to include your app to the list of broken apps" is a tone I don't like. As I am happy to leave Xournal  in that list if the change requires too much of my little time.22:43
DocScrutinizerbasically you're looking out the window for blue sky to decide if you need warm clothes, rather than to watch the outside thermometer which would be the right thing22:43
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DocScrutinizersorry if my "tone" doesn't match your sensible demands and rules. It's not offensive in any way, it's just facts22:45
anideland as usual you don't listen. I said I UNDERSTAND perfectly what you are saying. I UNDERSTAND my app is broken, I UNDERSTAND and APPRECIATE you're trying to fix the status. But simply don't listen to WHY I MAY not do it. You don't accept it. And your tone goes way off. I don't like that. Didn't like it last time, don't like it now.22:45
DocScrutinizerwe need such a list anyway, and we got no problem with your app included n that list (= "we're happy")22:45
anidelI'm fine with that as well.22:46
DocScrutinizerso ok, we got that sorted. no bad feelings22:46
rm_workDocScrutinizer: when you say things that way it comes off as antagonizing / snyde22:46
* rm_work throws himself in front of the bus22:46
rm_worknot that I'm not guilty of doing it a lot... that's how i recognize it :P22:47
MohammadAGlistening for raw mce without backing it up womething else is bad22:47
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anidelagain and last time: I am NOT saying that I am happy to listening to it. I know that is wrong. Is that clear?22:48
anidelto it = to mce22:48
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rm_workjust ask someone to submit a patch :) maybe someone else is looking for something to do22:49
GeneralAntillesrm_work: hey.22:49
rm_worksup GA22:49
anidelis it that difficult, also, to understand I work onXournal of very little spare time? = I may not have time to dig into this. Simple. You still keep the app in the bad list, fine...but why point it out? threaten ? or what?22:49
GeneralAntillesThings I learned today: You pay the ridiculous amount of money for 1st-party lens hoods because they don't go crooked on you without your noticing.22:49
anidelit's open source.. the source is on gitorius and patches are more than welcome22:50
GeneralAntillesanidel: I wouldn't get worked up over it. ;)22:50
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anidelaction and reaction.. if I react that way, there is a reason. With all the good will in fixing this in Xournal, when I read some words and perceive a tone, I react that way. Sorry, he is like that, I am like bad feeling, things end here.22:51
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GeneralAntillesanidel: oh, I don't disagree. It's just not worth the energy.22:52
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rm_workyeah, there's a lot of people here you really just have to ignore most of the time :P22:52
anidelwhy not? he's right that Xournal is broken. He's wrong in the way he seems to *force* people in doing what is (actually) correct.22:53
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anidelI don't want to ignore his suggestion.. it's more than valid and fine. It's only the way he delivers it22:53
rm_workyeah, but there are other people telling you the same thing, so pay attention to them and ignore him. problem solved.22:54
anidelbut oh well.. spent more time here than I was planning to... back to work.22:54
rm_workor ignore me, whichever makes you happier22:54
anidelI'm going to ignore the whole channel for now :) bye and thanks22:54
rm_workGeneralAntilles: yeah sometimes buying the real thing is worth it22:55
GeneralAntillesanidel: later.22:55
rm_workhonestly i do that more than not these days... i think on average i save money that way from less re-buying22:55
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GeneralAntillesStill, $7.95 versus $45 was hard to swallow for a piece of plastic.22:55
rm_workyeah >_>22:56
rm_worki guess in that case at least it was cheap enough that it doesn't matter22:56
rm_workwhen it's less than 25% price difference is when it sucks to guess wrong22:56
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, I'm usually not one for the cheap knockoff method.22:57
rm_worklike on computer parts22:57
rm_worklike, hrm, an ASUS is $20 more than an ECS board, and the ECS is going to cost me $10022:57
rm_workI think I'll go for the ASUS :P22:57
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rm_workbeen trying to track down a blue 2010/2011 Lancer Ralliart for a while now23:01
rm_workfricking impossible23:01
rm_workI found a red 2010...23:01
rm_workred = 5 tickets/year23:01
rm_workcan't do that anymore23:01
rm_workblue is the answer :P23:01
rm_workthere's like five of them in the whole US i think....23:02
rm_work(for sale, that is... and i think one sold last week which brings it to four)23:02
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* SpeedEvil passes rm_work a can of cyan emulsion.23:05
rm_workI guess I could go get a paintjob but damn it feels painful to go immediately paint over the factory paintjob of a brand new car >_>23:05
* DocScrutinizer shrugs. Humans and their sensible feelings. oh my23:06
rm_workwell, the other problem being that it's expensive to paint properly >_>23:06
lolcatCan the n900 act as a bluetooth headset?23:06
GeneralAntillesrm_work: why blue?23:06
rm_workdon't think so23:06
GeneralAntillesrm_work: and why the hell would you want a nasty double-cluck flappy paddles?23:07
lolcatI need one for my ps3 and the nokia one has crap battery life23:07
rm_workGeneralAntilles: the blue is sooooo pretty, it makes me get all girly and giddy >_>23:07
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol @ paddles23:07
GeneralAntillesIf there's no clutch pedal, then GTFO.23:08
rm_workthe paddles are fairly lulz, but it's going to be for commuting, honestly I would have been ok with just straight auto :P23:08
rm_workbut it's the best of both because it's a manual that shifts super-fast and super-accurately23:08
rm_workyay for TC-SST23:09
rm_workand has auto mode for when i'm trying to drive in stop-and-go traffic while eating a sandwich :P23:10
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rm_workmmmm sandwich23:10
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rm_workI could get an EvoX I suppose23:10
rm_workbut honestly rather just have the SST in the ralliart23:11
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GeneralAntillesIt's not the best of both.23:14
GeneralAntillesIt's the worst.23:14
GeneralAntillesYou don't get nearly the control you would with a clutch.23:14
GeneralAntillesNor the fun.23:14
GeneralAntillesEvoX is what I would go for. :P23:14
GeneralAntillesEven Top Gear loved that car.23:14
rm_worknearly the control? how about, i tell it to be a manual and i tell it when to shift? is that not control? lol23:14
rm_workyeah, i saw that vs the STI23:14
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GeneralAntillesNo clutch, no real control.23:14
rm_workit's not a slushbox BTW23:15
rm_workit does have a clutch, just no clutch pedal23:15
GeneralAntillesYes, I know what a double-clutch system is.23:15
GeneralAntillesBut if robots are controlling it instead of your left foot, well. :)23:15
rm_workthen... it's better? faster? more accurate? :P23:15
GeneralAntillesLess fun, more pedestrian.23:15
rm_workin what way a robot is worse than a human at simple mechnanical tasks, i have yet to see23:16
rm_workhow is that less control23:16
rm_workyou're just unhappy cause you can't do the cool shify motion with your foot :P23:16
GeneralAntillesA robot clutch is basically either off or on.23:16
GeneralAntillesYou don't get any of the degrees in between.23:16
RST38hMy left foot has better things to do than controlling the damn clutch.23:17
RST38hSo, automatic transmission it is.23:17
GeneralAntillesMine doesn't.23:17
GeneralAntillesI don't like being bored while driving.23:17
javispedrointeresting discussion.23:17
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javispedroIt's hard to find automatic transmission fans around.23:18
RST38hGeneral: Then listen to NPR!23:18
* RST38h laughs satanically23:18
rm_workI'm usually not bored... I'm usually too busy eating a sandwich. and yes, listening to NPR actually >_>23:18
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rm_workI'd say roughly 1/3 of my time spent in my car is also spent simultaneously eating a sandwich of some kind23:19
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rm_workI love sandwiches23:19
CorsacRST38h: what better things to do your left foot has?23:19
Corsacwait, no, don't answer that23:19
RST38hCorsac: it's classified.23:19
rm_workeating a sandwich while shifting is... difficult, and can lead to calamitous loss of sandwich23:19
GeneralAntillesRST38h: ugh.23:19
GeneralAntillesMy commute is never interrupted by much traffic.23:20
GeneralAntillesrm_work: that's one reason I don't eat in the car.23:20
rm_worki spend most of my time sitting at lights or in stop-go on the freeway23:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h: yes, I don't live in hell. ;)23:20
GeneralAntillesSame @rm_work. :P23:20
rm_workGeneralAntilles: well then you're missing out on delicious sandwiches :P23:20
GuySofthey all, would the GPS work on mameo on the debian chroot?23:21
RST38hBy this measure, hell is just about everywhere23:21
GuySofti am trying to find a way to run foursquare on an N81023:21
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GeneralAntillesrm_work: nah, I eat those from the comfort of a real chair and table after my 4-7 minute commute. ;)23:21
rm_workGeneralAntilles: T_T23:21
rm_workGuySoft: I assume you could bind the gps device23:21
rm_workthe same way you bind /proc and /sys usually23:22
ArkenoiNo latest Angry Birds level packs for us anymore?23:22
ThreeMoverrated game23:22
RST38hnot unless you pirate android ones and make them work on n90023:22
rm_workI never got the Ovi Store to let me log in on my n900 so no angry birds for me at all :(23:22
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rm_workGeneralAntilles: well, I *could* buy an evo... I think they actually *had* a blue evo for sale23:23
rm_worknot too much more expensive, but I actually prefer the SST23:24
javispedroGuySoft: which maemo version?23:24
rm_workjavispedro: if it has a node in /dev he can just bind it into the chroot, no?23:24
javispedroif it's n810, then gpsd (stock) might provide a port which outputs plain nmea, but I don't remember which one :D23:24
javispedromostly, not on any maemo version so far.23:25
javispedrodiablo/n810: not because the dev node emits an unknown format,23:25
javispedrofremantle/n900: not because there's no dev node at all, just some socket.23:25
rm_workah, blegh23:25
rm_worksocket to filepipe -> bind? :P23:26
javispedroharmattan/n9: not because it doesn't exist.23:26
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rm_workshould be easy to write i'd think23:26
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GeneralAntillesrm_work: too bad.23:26
javispedroon n900 you can use columbus or the like to get a nmea stream, then do whatever you want with it.23:26
rm_workthere's a debian app for Foursquare?23:27
rm_workGuySoft: is the foursquare app OSS? can you just port it to Maemo?23:27
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pupnika lot of people shouldn't breed23:30
ds3pupnik: offering free tickets to japan for them? :D23:31
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* Arkenoi wonders why there is conboy for maemo and no desktop version23:48
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RST38hyou still have desktop? =)23:50
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