IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2011-03-16

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SpeedEvilWho wrote khweetur?00:11
* SpeedEvil forgot.00:11
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RST38hKhertan did00:16
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VenemoZogG, ping00:18
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pupnikwish i had all you guys in my hometown00:21
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SpeedEvilpupnik: Where are you, I forget.00:27
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pupnikgermany, near frankfurt00:27
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SpeedEvilFife, Scotland here.00:28
pupnikis there some nice scenery nearby?00:28
DocScrutinizer51hmm, so not too far from 49.45 11.0500:29
pupnikthe maemo conference was nice00:29
pupnikwas nice to meet nokians00:30
pupnikgood folks00:30
Venemothis is so annoying, Media Player fails to detect some of my metadata00:30
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pupniki shouldn't have slept in my car though00:30
Venemopupnik, what conference was that?00:31
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pupnikyou can overdo it with the money-saving00:31
phapI know this Venemo it's quite boring00:31
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Venemophap, do you know a solution?00:31
phapUnfortunaltly not I switched to Someplayer00:32
SpeedEvilpupnik:,+Fife,+United+Kingdom&ll=56.215314,-3.112521&spn=0.004558,0.008669&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=56.215916,-3.113197&panoid=ph1ycR8bGHGH3iNB37f2wQ&cbp=12,265.83,,0,-2.24 is nearby00:32
phapI love Media player if it was not for this art problem00:32
SpeedEvilDoes streetview work on microB00:33
pupnikoh now i remember SpeedEvil00:33
SpeedEvilnever tried it.00:33
pupnikgood work with your house00:33
RST38hI think it does, just barely00:33
SpeedEvilJust had a _massive_ pile of insulation delivered.00:33
SpeedEvilWhich should enable me to make a proper start.00:34
pupnikneed a hand?00:34
SpeedEvilI need to work out what I'm doing first.00:34
pupniki have a lot to do as well but it's hard to get going00:34
SpeedEvilThere are some possible state funded options that I need to investigate first.00:34
SpeedEvilIn some ways I'd prefer to DIY - but it's a hell of a lot of work.00:34
pupnikorchards are nice00:35
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pupniksomeone will appreciate them who you never meet00:35
ZogGVenemo pomg00:35
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pupnikunless some jerk comes and buldozes your trees00:36
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Sc0rpiusso have you read the Maemo Council candidates list?00:43
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Arkenoiwhat does "arapp" do? claims to be augmented reality app but does not seem to do anything01:04
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SpeedEvilMaybe it's for superimposing pictures of pirates on your world?01:08
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ThreeMcan i took the from another arm smartphone to work on the n900?01:17
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DocScrutinizerso who's extinguishing the fire this time? Or does anybody at all?01:20
lcukwhich fire?01:21
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: block4 on fire again01:45
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DocScrutinizerthis morning allegedly a special force of US military extinguished it. But seems they (tepco 50 dudes remaining personal at site) didn't manage to get cooling of chillout pool back to working order01:47
DocScrutinizerso it ignited again01:47
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DocScrutinizer(it seems == my take on it. Except for "fire again" and "used fuel rods in chillout pool at #4 caught fire this morning" it's mere handwaving and entirely 'made up' by me)01:51
ThreeMthe fire on reaktor is off01:51
ThreeMmom looking for timestamp01:52
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DocScrutinizerthere's been a seconf fire reported like 3h ago01:52
ThreeM00:36 met01:52
ThreeMso its 20 min old01:52
DocScrutinizeroh, good01:53
ThreeMlooks like the fire has just turn off.01:53
SpeedEvilI wonder if the fire is a zirconia-air fire01:53
SpeedEvilOr if it's some other random stuff.01:53
SpeedEvilZircalloy, rather.01:53
ThreeMi beleve its other randrom stuff from the building01:54
DocScrutinizerthat's zirconia-oxide so unlikely it is set on fire01:54
SpeedEvilyeah - not the oxide, the metal clad01:54
ThreeMnot the nuklearsticks itself (how they are called in english?)01:54
DocScrutinizerfuel rods01:55
ThreeMi think the fuel rods has fired up parts from the building. after the explosion.01:55
ThreeMbut we are all no experts :(01:56
DocScrutinizerseems nobody is atm01:56
DocScrutinizeresp when it comes to details of situation at site01:56
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* SpeedEvil hopes it's boring from here on in.01:57
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* SpeedEvil wants more nukes in the UK.01:57
ThreeMi hope they can prevent the fallout01:57
DocScrutinizerlast I heard is the pool is running short of cooling water, so the rods started to heat up. And they tried to fill the pool with pumps and/or via helicopers dropping water, which didn't pan out01:58
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SpeedEvilThe current amount of emitted radiation is apparantly hazerdous if you're right at the plant gates.01:58
SpeedEvilIt's not going to be dangerous in a few days due to decay times, or at any distance at all.01:58
DocScrutinizeryeah, you get like 400 times an allowable year dosage in 1 hour there01:59
ThreeMtake some steaks with you01:59
SpeedEvil(if stuff stays the same, and if the figures reported are accurate)01:59
DocScrutinizerthe figures reported are bogus mostly01:59
SpeedEvilPossibly, yes.02:00
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DocScrutinizerthere's one semi reliable report like ~400mS in between block3 and block4, when #4 was on fire. Probably taken by US special forces02:00
DocScrutinizer4000 are considered 50% immediately lethal02:01
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DocScrutinizerso of a crew staying there for 10h, like 50% will die during hours or days02:02
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DocScrutinizerdisclaimer: AIUI / AFAIK02:03
SpeedEvilRadiological units are hideously complex.02:03
SpeedEvilEven more than light units.02:03
DocScrutinizernevertheless this isn't the venus at night sky, this is a friggin baseball field illumination02:04
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ThreeM" Tepco said that it is considering dispersing boric acid, a fire retardant, over the Fukushima Daiichi plant’s No. 4 reactor from a helicopter, Reuters reports"02:05
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DocScrutinizerwhich just on incidence happens to also be last means to stop or minimize a chain reaction in case of meltdown02:06
SpeedEvilThe problem ismany people are conflatingthis with the desperate measures of dropping crap into the open core of Chernobyl.02:07
DocScrutinizerwhich may happen on those rods in chillout pool as well, aiui02:07
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SpeedEvilWhen it's about 8 orders of magnitudes lower.02:07
DocScrutinizerwell, ping me on next curtain. I'm off for a walk, so call me DocScrutinizer51 now ;-)02:08
ThreeMits 9,1 now02:10
ThreeMthe have been rated it up02:10
DocScrutinizernow that explains it all02:11
DocScrutinizerprolly block5 will go boom immediately after it learns about it's not been 8.9 but 9.102:11
ThreeMrating it up cause reaktor fails on 8.02:12
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ThreeM8,9 will be ok but 9.1  omg!02:12
ThreeMbut, the diffenence from 8,9 to 9.1 is huge02:12
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SpeedEvilIt was rated for 8.5 IIRC02:14
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an0therb0xhas anyone else had a charging issue with the n900 where is only charges when connected to pc/laptop but not wall or car charger ?02:50
SpeedEvilThe nokia wall charger?02:51
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orlokmy N900 will run flat connected via USB heh02:52
an0therb0xSpeedEvil: yes the nokia wall charger does not charge it but it charges my bluetooth ear piece02:53
SpeedEvilIt actually charges on PC?02:54
SpeedEvilI'd try to reboot.02:54
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an0therb0xSpeedEvil:  I have rebooted multiple times, my wild guess is community SSU02:55
SpeedEvilNo idea.02:56
ThreeMwall charger = standard charger include with N900?02:58
an0therb0xcorrect standard charger included with N90002:58
ThreeMno issues here with cssu02:59
ThreeMcan charge on laptop and standard charger without problems02:59
ThreeMmaybe your charger is broken?02:59
SpeedEvilan0therb0x: Are you using the same lead for both?03:00
an0therb0xthe nokia charger works fine for my ear piece03:00
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ThreeMuhh now the say that reaktor 4 is still under fire03:06
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DocScrutinizererr, ECAHN03:20
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blizzowI want to merge contacts on my n900 and have the changes propagate to my Exchange account.03:38
blizzowOr do the merge on my phone, save the resulting contact list, delete my exchange contacts, and import the resulting list.  Is this possible with the N900?03:38
blizzowIt seems like the n900 will only suck down contacts from exchange but changes done on the n900 don't get pushed to exchange03:39
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lolcatAlien Dalvik, like the rest of Myriad’s portfolio, is sold directly to operators and device manufacturers, and is unavailable for individual sale. We are currently in discussions with a number of our customers regarding Alien Dalvik and future deployments will be determined by market demand.06:40
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DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: your nokia charger has broken D+/- short07:43
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lofty306just doooont say usb pulled out07:45
DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: I guess the D+/- short is done by connecting the white and blue wire of a 4 wire cable running from charger to plug. Probably one of those 2 wires is broken07:49
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: an0therb0x: I guess the D+/- short is done by connecting the white and green wire of a 4 wire cable running from charger to plug. Probably one of those 2 wires is broken07:50
DocScrutinizeran0therb0x: ...or one of the middle 2 golden contact springs in the USB plug is bent or dirty07:51
DocScrutinizernew: smoke over #3, exciting: nothing any more about this desaster07:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: before you ask ;-D07:53
lofty306last i heard is that they withdrew all the workers  from  the plant radiation leevels too high atm07:55
lofty306but thee is confusion if that ment the last 50 workers there or others07:57
DocScrutinizernah, it actually meant all 50 last kamikaze workers07:57
DocScrutinizeractually they can't reasonably do anything anymore anyway07:58
lofty306thats what i took it to mean07:58
RST38hDoc:ah, how boring07:59
DocScrutinizerthey should place a proper little bomb under the reactors and start the containment discharge in a semicontrolled way, as long as the wind is friendly08:00
RST38hLast I heard, they were going to drop sea water from helicopters08:00
DocScrutinizermeh, that's old and of course was a major fail08:00
RST38hWhich, to anyone even slightly familiar with the subject, indicates that they have run out of reasonable methods to stop it08:00
DocScrutinizersupposedly they tried to refill the chill down pool at #4 this way08:01
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DocScrutinizerwhich actually would make sense, if there wasn't some building around it08:02
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: if you can't stop it, ride it08:07
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RST38hDoc: No, in hierarchical societies, it means "run around in circles and show the bosses that you are working hard"08:08
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DocScrutinizerreally they should "open the drain" of the PV and containment *now*, and manage the molten fuel rods as they come drop by drop (place huge amounts of sand and borax there), rather than waiting for a 70 tons of radioactive molten substance to collect in the bilge of containment until it reaches criticality08:16
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lofty306they decided not to drop water in that they could displace the fuel rode in the storage pool and send it critical bu rods  being too close together08:18
RST38hDoc: I am afraid none of us know enough and have enough background to reason like that08:18
DocScrutinizerthey should have dne this instead if useless filling in seawater, wait until it boils and builds up pressure and again the rods are in free air without cooling08:19
orlokdo all types of water act as moderators?08:19
orloki thought it needed heavy water?08:19
RST38hAFAIK, all, to some degree08:19
orloki thought the reason not to dump in water as it turned into radioactive steam08:19
RST38hbut they are using water mainly for cooling at the moment08:20
DocScrutinizerorlok: yes, of course08:20
lofty306thease are lite water reactors08:20
RST38hBecause light water works better as a moderator08:21
DocScrutinizerbecause heavy water is really expensive ;-P08:21
lofty306and add a nuclear poision to that and it will slow the reaction  they used boron(probably boric acid)08:22
* RST38h sighs: none of us here are nuclear engineers, so why argue?08:22
orlokDont suppose anybody here knows much about ethernet and ciscos?08:22
orlokRST38h: thats been my thought heh08:22
DocScrutinizeryeah, but that's not the problem. the reactor was correctly stopped wrt chain reaction08:22
orlok(the people in #cisco are seriously useless)08:22
RST38hso are most people, in general...08:23
orlokwell, one or two people have been of some vague help08:23
orlokbut the rest of them are just parroting crap from books with no uderstanding of why08:23
orlok"Force speed and duplex! Force to 100Base-FD!"08:23
orlokbut cant say why thats any different to the fact they all autonegotiate at 100BaseFD anyway08:24
orlokand why my problem goes away when i switch to 100Base-HD08:24
DocScrutinizeruse the force!!!08:24
orlokAnd them claim that the fact i'm using ICMP means its not a valit performance metric08:24
RST38hThey are certified cisco engineers!08:24
orlokThen claim any throughput issues must be an application error.. When i'm using FTP and SCP08:24
orlokThen they claim its the cheapest router cisco sells08:24
RST38hYou have been attacked by certified cisco engineers!08:25
orlokand yet still cannot explain why forcing to 100BaseFD is any different to Auto-100Base-FD08:25
RST38hRrrrun to the hills!08:25
orlokand especially cannot explain why the problem goes away at 100base-HD08:25
RST38horlok: Well that I can tell you right away08:25
orlokExcept to force the links.08:25
orlokBut cannot say why!08:26
orlokRST38h: NOT engineers.08:26
RST38horlok: "auto" means the adapters will only go to that mode if they both agree and the line is ok08:26
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orlokRST38h: Yes, i know all that, and they all went to 100Base-FD-Auto fine!08:26
RST38horlok: "forced" means that the adapter will go to that mode no matter what08:26
orloki know all this :)08:26
orlokthats the thing - they autodetected to 100Base-FD fine, yet had transmission errors.08:27
orlokErrors go away when i force them to 100Base-HD08:27
DocScrutinizerwhat's FD/HD?08:27
derfFull Duplex.08:27
orlokFull Duplex/Half Duplex08:27
DocScrutinizerfull/half dupleyx?08:27
derfHalf Duplex.08:27
RST38horlok: then what are you doing in a channel full of CCPs?08:27
DocScrutinizerooh, I know I know :-P08:28
RST38horlok: probably means one of two things08:28
DocScrutinizerhad that08:28
orlokRST38h: trying to get an explination for packet loss issues08:28
RST38horlok: 1) on of the cards does not support it or 2) your wiring is broken somewhere08:28
orlokit seems cos they have paid so much to get their certificates08:28
DocScrutinizerI witnessed that when I used a faulty wired cable once08:28
orlokthey cannot bear the thought of the cisco gear being anything less than perfect.. that would devalue them!08:29
DocScrutinizerworked fine on HD, broke almost completely on FD08:29
RST38horlok: I would go with (2) and start by connecting devices with a piece of wiring that is known to be good08:29
orlokRST38h: nope, nope.08:29
orlokRST38h: well, it _could_ be the cabling. I will be changing ALL of it tomorrow08:29
RST38horlok: howdoyouknow?08:29
orlokRST38h: but i have used multiple routers and servers08:29
orlokIntel servers, or Lenovo notebooks, etc etc08:29
RST38horlok: before you change cabling, try connecting them with a really short piece of a known good FD wire08:29
orlokCables were tested, etc08:29
orloki will open up a new batch tomorrow and test08:30
RST38horlok: oh wait have you got any concentrators there???08:30
orlokRST38h: actually, one of the few usefull things anybody in #cisco told me was there is a minimum cable length!08:30
orlok2 meters or so08:30
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orlokbut i could not find that in the IEEE cable specs08:30
RST38horlok: you may have got a faulty concentrator08:30
orlokRST38h: No concentrator.08:31
RST38hso you only have 2 devices connected?08:31
orlokRST38h: This is a testbed replication of an issue i am seeing in a production enviroment08:31
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orlokIntel server - 2950 - 1841 router - 2950 - Intel server08:31
orlokrouter has cleared config, configured for the two interfaces, etc08:31
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RST38hhow about removing 1841 and the second 2950? =)08:32
orlokNot the fix i was hoping for.. but better than anything they managed!08:32
RST38hnot a fix, just a way to figure out where problem resides08:33
RST38hit can be either of the servers, either of the 2950s, or the router08:33
RST38hmakes sense to start small, then add shit piece by piece and see when it breaks08:33
orlokRST38h: No, its the router.08:33
orlokIts to due with the duplexing.08:34
orloki can make the problem appear and dissapear by toggling everything from FD to HD08:34
orlokIn the production network, we had to change a switch WIC interface from half duplex to full duplex and force it08:34
orlokas otherwise the switch WIC would lock up every 2 weeks08:35
orlokThats what causes some production errors to show08:35
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orlokNow i can replicate that here and confirmed that was the problem08:35
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DocScrutinizerif the twisted pairs are messed up, you get interferences in cable on duplex08:35
orloknow i jkust want to know why, and of course nobody in #cisco will say "cisco sucks"08:36
DocScrutinizersuch a cable looks perfect on DC tests08:36
orlokDocScrutinizer: yeah, i'm going to unbag some new Cat6 cables tomorrow08:36
DocScrutinizeruse a different brand, from another shop ;-)08:38
orlokbest advice all day :)08:38
RST38hMeanwhile: Oracle is killing, the online home of Sun Microsystems and one of the oldest dot-com domain names.08:39
RST38horlok:there is probably a secret setting to toggle somewhere deep inside that router's guts! =)08:39
orlokRST38h: Just like what happened to HPHUX and Irix, then the guy that did it went to work for MS....08:41
orlok"Ok, guys, i wiped out the server and workstation compitition like you asked, wheres that breast inspector job?"08:41
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SpeedEvilWell - they could sell sun.com08:45
DocScrutinizerto pizbuin08:46
DocScrutinizeror to thomas cook08:47
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lofty306GE sending 10 gas turbine generators to japannn09:32
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DocScrutinizerGE hah. >>>Its reactors were designed by General Electric. ( is a joint venture between NBC Universal and Microsoft. GE is a part owner of NBC Universal.)<<<  kinda funny how they put it, at end of the article09:34
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timeless_w7ipthey have to09:37
timeless_w7ipit's standard disclaimer to indicate they're aware of the potential conflict of interest09:37
timeless_w7ipit's part of journalistic integrity09:37
lofty306it seems they went ahead with dropping water from helicopter09:41
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pupnik_ .10:19
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pupnikwow nokia 3310 sold 126 million units10:43
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pupnikis there a maemo app that will warn about upcoming ebay endings from the watchlist13:04
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flexxxvhey, what is the best way to set up scratchbox on a ubuntu box?13:17
pupnikfor you, installing vmware image13:17
flexxxvHow about
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crashanddieWhat exactly do you want to do?13:19
pupnikwhat abot it13:19
crashanddieDevelop C++/Qt apps for Maemo?13:19
flexxxvyes. or port some software13:19
crashanddieBasically, if you just want to do C++/Qt, you can get the Nokia Qt SDK13:20
crashanddieit does cross-compilation et all13:20
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crashanddieIf however you want to use other build systems, such as make, and basically master your own toolchain13:20
crashanddiethen you need scratchbox13:20
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Venemo_N900flexxxv: Qt SDK 1.1 can do what you want13:21
flexxxvhmm. I'll do some research13:21
Venemo_N900crashanddie: not true. while sb may be practical, Qt sdk can do all13:21
crashanddieoh, ok then13:21
crashanddiemy bad13:21
Venemo_N900crashanddie: you can install any lib into MADDE13:22
crashanddiewell, yeah13:22
crashanddiebut not compile it easily13:22
crashanddieit's not as linux-hacker friendly as scratchbox is13:22
crashanddienot that scratchbox is friendly in any way, shape or form13:23
Venemo_N900true, true13:23
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flexxxvcan I use the qt4 designer to build a good interface for maemo 514:02
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dashavooafternoon all14:12
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jonwilI think the USB port on my N900 has finally reached the level of "broken" :(14:16
jonwilIts charging right now but thats a miracle I suspect14:16
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psycho_oreosdid you get a slowly flashing amber LED light?14:17
jonwilIts definatly charging14:18
jonwilI can see the LED14:18
jonwilBut I suspect that if I even breath on my N900 or its USB connector, it will move just that micrometer needed to break the link and stop charging14:19
dashavoojonwil: After mine stopped charging properly, switching to one of the other charging things worked for a while (they eventually became very sensitive too)14:19
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dashavoono idea why it should have made a difference14:19
jonwilright now its charging via wall charger14:20
psycho_oreoswhich build number do you guys have?14:20
jonwilwhich was for a while more flaky than charging via data cable14:20
jonwilbut now both data cable and wall charger are VERY flakey14:20
dashavoopsycho_oreos: where would one find that out?14:20
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SpeedEviljonwil: I thought you were in hte EU.14:21
SpeedEvilOr am I confused.14:21
jonwilnope, I am in Australia14:21
SpeedEvilDunno what .au warranties are.14:21
psycho_oreosdashavoo, hmm lemme check, iirc it was available in flasher14:21
jonwilWhen trying to plug it in, I was able to get it to flash briefly "charging" then "charging stopped"14:21
jonwilthen I tried one more time with the wall charger and just got it to work14:22
psycho_oreosdashavoo, `flasher --local -i' if doing it on n900 itself, look for hardware revision14:23
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BCMMyou can flash on-device?14:24
orlokjonwil: ever have  problems wih it losing SIM contact?14:24
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jonwilnope, its not loosing SIM contact14:24
orlokwho did you get it through?14:24
SpeedEvilorlok: I have.14:24
SpeedEvilorlok: what symptoms do you get>14:25
orlokSpeedEvil: ipad-type sim?14:25
jonwilI bought it from an Australian reseller14:25
orlokthe one with the extra cutout?14:25
dashavoopsycho_oreos: 210114:25
orloki got mine from.. allphones? or something14:25
dashavoopsycho_oreos: and thanks, I didn't know I could get info like that ;)14:25
jonwilIt was an online reseller14:25
orlokSpeedEvil: the SIM icon appears and goes grey14:25
jonwilwho sold me one14:25
jonwilwith a genuine Nokia warranty14:25
SpeedEvilorlok: I don't think I've seent hat.14:25
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orlokSpeedEvil: you know how you push the sim out of the credit card sized thing?14:26
psycho_oreosdashavoo, well now you know.. hmm 2101, slightly older than my build. I have heard numerous reports of faulty mUSB breakage14:26
orlokSpeedEvil: the ipad sim's are smaller yet again14:26
jonwilyeah I have heard the reports too14:26
orlokso theres a decent bit of plastic missing14:26
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psycho_oreosipad iirc uses uSIM or something like that, it probably only has the gold bits left of the SIM card to be inserted. That also reminds me of the dual SIM hack with N90014:27
jonwilI hope that since flakey USB ports are a "known fault" with the phone, Nokia wont try and tell me its not covered14:27
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psycho_oreosit is a known fault14:27
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jonwilThis is my second N900, the first one had a busted flexboard (indicator LED didnt work) and Nokia gave me a replacement rather than a repair14:28
orlokpsycho_oreos: yup, pretty much14:28
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dashavoojonwil: I have a worse problem... my screen is also severely cracked (I can see pretty much nothing now), so I either get insurance to repair the screen and hopefully usb, or I repair it myself and void the warranty14:28
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jonwilNokia Care weren't that bad when they fixed the first problem14:30
jonwilThey just took forever14:30
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jonwilWhich meant I was without a phone for a week or more14:31
jonwildespite their claims of "a few days"14:31
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SpeedEvilorlok: Ah14:31
SpeedEvilorlok: I took a different tack.14:31
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SpeedEvilorlok: Take the existing normal sized 'old style' SIM. Place back in the original holder. Line up with the new ipad SIM holder. remove old SIM holder while holding SIM firmly in place.14:32
SpeedEvilorlok: Draw round SIM carefully.14:32
SpeedEvilorlok: Apply sharp chisel to cut off excess.14:33
SpeedEvilThis leaves you an ipad SIM, inside a normal SIM-sized bit of plastic.14:33
SpeedEvilI need to install this in my phone though.14:33
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orlokSpeedEvil: yah, except my N900 came with an ipad style SIM14:34
orlokso its not as rigid14:34
orloki was thinking that caused my sim disconnect issues14:35
orlokCaptainX: my steppers are geared already14:35
SpeedEvilorlok: Ah.14:35
orlokthen they have a small gear, connected to a big gear where the fine control knobs are14:35
orlokwrong channel14:36
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lofty306orlok, you buildiing a reprap in here?14:37
orlokhaha, no...14:37
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orloktelescope mount drive system14:38
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jacktheripperdoes the camera app open microb by default to view images ? (after tapping that little image icon on the bottom-right_14:45
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jonwilis it normal for the mA provided by a wall charger to fluctuate (in this case as high as 831 and as low as 745)14:46
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RST38hwall charger provides volts not mA14:48
RST38hthe current (aka "mA") will fluctuate depending on how much power your device consumes14:48
jonwilso its normal for it to bounce around when charging14:48
jonwilThe main thing is that it IS actually charging14:49
jonwiland I have moved the phone to a location where nothing can even slightly bump it14:49
orlokif i perform a SCP over wireless wile plugged in via USB.. my device discharges.. even though it says charging14:49
jonwilso there is no danger it will stop charging14:49
jonwilmine definatly lists a TTF value14:50
jonwilso thinks its charging14:50 ( (
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pupnikloyal dog is loyal14:54
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dashavooorlok: when I am charging with usb and also using the phone for other things, I often get a message warning me that the device is consuming more than the usb cable is providing15:04
orlokdashavoo: ahh.. that may be why.. i didnt see a message15:05
orlokbut i was ssh'd into it, doing a tar -cf / across ssh15:05
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dominikbhi! on the N900, I am using the "--force-power-key" R&D flag to auto-boot the device when receiving power. is it possible to have this functionality when not in R&D mode?15:07
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jonwilgreat, hal-device bme and disagree on whether the device is recieving power or not15:09
samposlcuk: known prob ?15:09
lcuksampos, liqbase (0.1.5) has to date not run on the n90015:09
jonwilhal-device bme says "maemo.rechargeable.positive_rate = true" and "maemo.rechargeable.charging_status = 'on'"15:09
lcukI have never tried to push the code through15:09
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jonwilyet says TTF is 6553515:10
jonwiland is implying juice is being drained15:10
samposlcuk: ah, ok.15:10
lcukI dismantled and was building it as individual components in the libliqbase, liqbase-playground and all associated apps liq*15:10
lcukrather than the monolithich blob15:10
jonwilI suspect I am not going to get a charged device15:11
lcuksampos, the classic one *can* be tweaked to work on x86 and that was what I did on my meego ideapad whilst comparing optimisations15:11
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samposlcuk: maybe we have it on n900de someday ?15:13
jonwilI get the feeling that I have no choice but to go back to Nokia Care ASAP and hope they dont take 2 weeks to fix it :(15:13
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eichihello. is there a way to import the saved sms on my sim card to my n900?15:14
lcuksampos, no - the entire functionality exists in the library as individual apps, it all just needs polishing and aligning15:14
jonwilholy shit, its actually charging again now15:14
lcuksampos, having it as individual plugin apps is better and much more maintainable15:15
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lcukof course if someone else wanted to!15:15
samposlcuk: :)15:16
* lcuk does not think it is useful though as cleaning the library15:16
* umm`900 waits for the answer as well ^-^15:16
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lcuksampos, MeeGo N900 DE would be better with :
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lcukwhich shows the apps running fullspeed on all MeeGo devices I have15:17
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samposthat looks nice15:19
lcuksampos, :)15:20
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lcuksampos, notice that there are actually *more* apps running on the n900 one on that screenshot ;)15:21
* sampos looks more closely15:22
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kerioumm`900: ^-----^15:30
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jonwilYep, further examination of my N900 USB port under bright light reveals damage. I hope Nokia doesn't decide that whatever damage there is doesn't quality for a warranty fix (e.g. they claim "its clear that you used force on the connector so we wont cover it") otherwise I am in trouble15:45
jonwilI can see that the port is slightly out of alignment15:45
jonwilhence my concern :(15:46
luke-jrjonwil: since USB port damage is commonplace in N900s, I don't see why they would decline15:47
jonwilI think its clear from the # of reports of it that the N900 USB port is poorly designed15:47
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jonwilMy big issue is the fact that I will be without a phone for however long15:49
jonwilwhich makes it harder for me when I am trying to find a job15:49
jonwilas I cant receive important calls15:49
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Maceri can't say i have ever had a problem with my n900 usb port15:51
jonwilAnd I thought Nokia was known for making good quality hardware15:51
jonwilOr is the N900 the exception to the rule?15:52
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* RST38h sets /ignore and sighs15:52
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lofty306he yank his usb out yeet?15:54
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pupnikhow silly15:57
pupnikcell phones are like sand on the beach15:57
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pupnikebay: 1 ero15:57
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flexxxvhey I'm trying to compile under scratchbox a programm and I get: error: stray '\357' in program error: stray '\273' in program error: stray '\277' in program15:58
flexxxvThe file contains some greek symbols and is utf8 coded15:59
RST38hYou are typing your program in unicode15:59
MohammadAGanyone into GLib (GValue to be precise)15:59
RST38hwhat about it?15:59
MohammadAGI'm getting segfaults15:59
RST38hon what code?16:00
MohammadAGI changed a GValue to a pointer16:00
MohammadAGif you look at that, you'll notice it's initialize a GValue each time that's called16:01
MohammadAGsince it's connected to a slider, that's a lot, and I'm guessing that's what causes the slider to be shitty16:01
MohammadAGnow, I changed that to a pointer defined in the header, and initialized it correctly16:02
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MohammadAGGVolume = NULL; g_value_init (GVolume, G_TYPE_UINT);16:02
MohammadAGand changed the section on gitorious to be g_value_set_uint (GVolume, volume); mafw_extension.. etc16:02
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MohammadAGit's segfaulting on it, mafw_extension_set_property(MAFW_EXTENSION(this->mafw_renderer), MAFW_PROPERTY_RENDERER_VOLUME, GVolume);16:03
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RST38hOf course it is segfaulting16:04
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RST38hg_value_init() is supposed to take a pointer to the EXISTING GValue and set it to type UINT16:04
RST38hYou give it a 0 instead of the pointer16:04
MohammadAGbut it's segfaulting on the mafw line :P16:05
RST38hcould you pastebin your code somewhere?16:05
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MohammadAGsegfaults on 31816:07
Aquarinai'm looking at a way to update my n81016:07
Aquarinais there a new image since os2008?16:08
Aquarina(been told meego wouldn't work on n810)16:08
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flexxxvAquarina: there is no stable meego for en users. what do you want to do with meego?16:09
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Aquarinaflexxxv: i'd like to have it behave more like an ordinary computer16:09
Aquarinamultiple users16:09
Aquarinafor example16:09
Aquarinashare internet connection16:10
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RST38hMohammad: ok this may not work16:10
RST38hMohammad: it is wrong16:10
Aquarinaexport the display through ssh ...16:10
MohammadAGRST38h, how?16:11
RST38hMohammad: please do this:16:11
flexxxvmeego ist right now only for developers (at all devices). It won't work like an ordinary pc16:11
RST38hMohammad: 1. At the top level, declare GValue GVolume;  (NOT a pointer)16:11
flexxxvtry something like easydebian16:11
RST38hMohammad: 2. Replace GVolume=NULL with memset(&GVolume, 0, sizeof(GVolume))16:12
RST38hMohammad: 3. replace GVolume with &GVolume everywhere16:12
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RST38hMohammad: 4. See if it works.16:12
Aquarinaflexxxv: hum... I'd LOVE to have debian on it16:13
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Aquarinaflexxxv: is there a page I can digg it?16:13
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flexxxvAquarina: google? I have a n800 (I'm not using at the moment) and I had the abillity to dual boot debian16:14
Aquarinaok, great16:14
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MohammadAGRST38h, works, but the slider's still slow :/16:15
Aquarinanow... let's see if there is some sort of netinstall - that would be a realy great thing16:15
flexxxvAquarina: dont you think debian inside of a chroot enviroment is better?16:16
Aquarina(I'd love to have a minimal system where I could install just what I'd need)16:16
flexxxvdo some search on . It should be somwhere there16:17
Aquarinaflexxxv: hum... that would add more need for storage space on top of maemo16:17
Aquarinaflexxxv: did you manage to have debian booting from internal card, as oposed to external card?16:18
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flexxxvthat is some time ago... If I remember right you can change the bootmenu to start from the internal card16:19
RST38hMohammad: I doubt it has anything to do with this variable16:19
RST38hMohammad: Should I explain why it crashed, just to prevent repeats ? =)16:19
AquarinaI already did that, I installed mer on another card and booted from it16:20
AquarinaI think it would be easy to change from one option to the other, but as far as I know, I couldn't have installed mer on internal card16:21
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AquarinaI don't realy undestand why but I think it had something to do with the bootloader16:22
flexxxvAquarina: I think you can the bootmenu16:23
flexxxvAquarina: I think you can change the bootmenu16:24
MohammadAGRST38h, cause mafw takes a const GValue pointer?16:26
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flexxxvI'm trying to compile goldendict in scratchbox. I get this error: here is the code error: stray '\357' in program16:29
AquarinaI'm afraid I fell off from irc16:30
Aquarinadamn web client16:30
* SpeedEvil nails Aquarina to the channel.16:32
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Aquarinaflexxxv: thanks :-)16:33
AquarinaI meant SpeedEvil16:33
eusou444hi maemo developers, I am new here16:33
Aquarinaso... where was I?16:34
dashavoohi eusou444 - I'm a lurker here ;)16:34
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eusou444there are so many people here16:37
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Aquarinaok, I can't seem to find easydebian page with instructions!...16:39
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Aquarinawell... I'll have to go16:41
Aquarinathk u guys16:41
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flexxxvAquarina: package should be in some of the extras repos16:42
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koala_manwhen browsing some page, can I zoom in and have the browser fit the contents to the new width?16:43
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koala_manMohammadAG: when I do that, the url bar just opens and gets focus16:47
koala_manI mapped shift-backspace to esc, maybe that messed it up16:49
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eusou444I have a problem with my SDK in networking conection. It was unable to connect to internet when WLAN of my work. But in my home there is no problem.16:50
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ZogGMohammadAG, i hate Orange16:55
ZogGthose bitches need to die16:55
MohammadAGZogG, hmm?16:56
MohammadAGPedophone isn't any better16:56
ZogGMohammadAG, do you have fanatic maybe? =)16:56
MohammadAGkoala_man, no ideas, it works for me :(16:56
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AsiQueI second MohammadAG on that!16:56
MohammadAGAsiQue, you're from IL?16:57
MohammadAGyour IP range is the same as mine...16:57
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AsiQue:-) i'll take it as a compliement16:57
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AsiQue*it -> that16:58
MohammadAGyou're on orange too?16:58
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AsiQuehate them!16:58
MohammadAGZogG, did you notice they changed the network name to orange? (from IL Orange)16:58
AsiQueMohammadAG i think you asked him already...16:59
MohammadAGhe never answered :P16:59
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MohammadAGAsiQue, my dad has Pelephone16:59
MohammadAGon an iPhone16:59
MohammadAGit barely gets a bar16:59
ZogGMohammadAG nope i have custom name16:59
ZogGdamn i wanted iphone4 from nov just to sell it and get student discount17:00
ZogGbut still no iphones17:00
MohammadAGhow come?17:00
MohammadAGI wanted him to get a Galaxy S17:00
ZogGand now i can't jailbreak 4.317:00
MohammadAGbut it was sold out17:00
ZogGMohammadAG, i can take galaxy but more chanes i sell iphone17:00
AsiQuewell they have Galaxy S now17:00
crashanddieZogG, why can't you jailbreak 4.3?17:01
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ZogGcrashanddie is their jailbreak for it alreadY?17:01
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MohammadAGyes, afaik17:01
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AsiQueMohammadAG: i actually have good reception with them... although they have some dead spots...17:02
crashanddie"It is a tethered jailbreak so it requires a Windows PC every time you wish to reboot your device"17:02
alteregoThat is hilarious :)17:03
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crashanddiealterego, when was 4.3 released?17:03
alteregoSomeone should write N900 iOS 4.3 jailbreaker now17:03
alteregoThen all the iPhone 4 owners will buy an N900 and end up prefering it in the end .. muahahaha17:04
crashanddieHighly doubt it, lol17:04
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crashanddieI've had more fun with my iPod touch in 2 weeks than with my n900 in 2 years...17:04
ZogGpelephoned stoled money from me when i was soldier17:05
AsiQueZogG how?17:05
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sivanghi all17:05
ZogGAsiQue, i got about 10 hours for 100 shekels or something discount17:06
sivanganybody knows if Candle 1.0 app by offscreen technologies is open source?17:06
sivangI want to reuse the candle vidoes17:06
ZogGand as i was at course i could talk only at 1 hour break once a day17:06
eusou444someone knows if there is a commercial LCD glasses via bluetoth ? I'm planning to use that with n900 and maemo.17:06
ZogGwhich mostly i didn't17:06
MohammadAGcrashanddie, you high or something? :P17:06
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ZogGbut i got bills like i was talking over 15 hours17:07
crashanddieMohammadAG, no, why?17:07
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MohammadAGcrashanddie, you can't have fun with an iPod, at least not without apps17:07
ZogGas well as i closes number and left only with orange i got regular bill at orange17:07
ZogGhad 2 phones17:07
crashanddieMohammadAG, been having plenty of fun with HTML5 apps17:07
AsiQueZogG, Strange... what did they say?17:07
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crashanddieMohammadAG, and developing with the gyroscope, w/e17:08
MohammadAGcrashanddie, give QML a chance17:08
ZogGMohammadAG, what do you think of app tp get info from orange of time you talked, sms sent, internet data and so on?17:08
MohammadAGZogG, no API?17:09
denoguys do you know if CONFIG_MUSB_PIO_ONLY is enabled by default in the kernel?17:09
denoI mean, dma is enabled in the maemo kernel?17:09
deno(by default)17:09
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ZogGanyone tried new nitdroid?17:11
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AsiQuethere is a new one?17:12
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flexxxvanyone an Idea why I get " error: stray '\357' in program" under scratchbox enviroment?17:15
ZogGAsiQue, they gave me 10 papers of calls with numbers i did, how the F i would check?17:15
flexxxvits working when compiling normally17:15
ZogGMohammadAG, i dunno, i'll email orange17:15
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flexxxvhere the complete error: codeis here
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* ZogG is watching hard die 217:17
AsiQueZogG, strange... so in orange it's all good?17:17
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ZogGAsiQue, was17:17
ZogGtill i pay too much now17:17
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AsiQueZogG, are u reffering the nitdroied build from 2 months ago...?17:18
AsiQueZogG, so what now... cellcome?17:18
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sivangAsiQue: bah don't say this word in this esteemed channel17:23
sivangorange for the win, although they kill my money spin17:23
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* sivang mailed offscreen people17:24
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sivanghey MohammadAG , are you running for council ?17:24
MohammadAGall 3 operators suck, orange sucks least17:24
MohammadAGsivang, nah, not much time in the coming months17:25
sivangMohammadAG: damn right17:25
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sivangMohammadAG: How is school and stuff?17:25
MohammadAGthat's exactly why I don't have time :P17:25
sivangMohammadAG: :)17:25
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MohammadAGI feel like releasing v0.1 of my mediaplayer17:26
sivangMohammadAG: please do, QML based right?17:27
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MohammadAGit has QML parts, but it's pure Qt for the rest17:28
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sivangMohammadAG: nice, so you caught on C++ on the go?17:28
Sc0rpiusI want to test that too17:28
MohammadAGsivang, yes17:29
sivang(/me lols at the 'on the go' phrase)17:29
Sc0rpiusgeez I would even want to get rid of the stock media player if I could17:29
sivangMohammadAG: so what do you need school for?17:29
MohammadAGSc0rpius, you're not a noob,
Sc0rpiusI thought the source was closed "so far"17:29
MohammadAGsivang, lol how would I find a job without a certificate17:29
sivangMohammadAG: oh please :)17:30
MohammadAGSc0rpius, rewrite17:30
MohammadAGwhat? :P17:30
sivangMohammadAG: but you're right, actually. Especially if you want to someday move to someplace normal like the EU :-p17:30
GAN900Normal? EU?17:31
sivangGAN900: remember where we come from :)17:31
sivangGAN900: all a matter of perspectiv17:31
GAN900sivang, yeah, fair enough.17:31
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sivangMohammadAG: study hard, my friend so you won't turn like me.17:32
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sivangMohammadAG: code will always be written and bit rot. A degree is for life17:32
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sivangMohammadAG: it is easy to get development jobs in TLV without a degree, but then it is just as easy to lose the :)17:33
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sivangMohammadAG: I realized that Accelerate C++ is probably the worst book on C++ ever written for seasoned developers like me, so I switched to Herbert Schildt and I profit.17:34
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sivangMohammadAG: not to mention TLV's work scene is one big mad house in terms of no planing, crazy deadlines and unorganized schedule.17:34
sivangMohammadAG: I used to work for Animation Lab in Jerusalem, the renovated govmt. money printer building.17:35
timeless_w7ipsivang: s/planing/planning/17:35
sivangMohammadAG: Beit Lehem road or something17:35
GAN900Move to the US. :P17:35
Sc0rpiuswow C++17:35
sivangtimeless_w7ip: oh you again! :)17:35
MohammadAGI thought you were in the EU tbh17:35
AsiQuesivang. try Practical C++ Programming17:35
timeless_w7ipsivang: i'm only passing by17:35
MohammadAGSc0rpius, C++ isn't that bad17:35
Sc0rpiusI have way too much of a long time without programming in C++17:35
MohammadAGat least with Qt17:35
GAN900It's too bad immigration and customs is so idiotic here.17:35
ZogGsivang, get me job =)17:35
Sc0rpiusall OO I have done lately is either Java or C# (.NET)17:36
ZogGnot coding something more easier =)17:36
sivangZogG: I lost mine, I can't help others :)17:36
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MohammadAGI kinda like C, but Qt's C++ and I find that way more productive17:36
AsiQuesivang looking for one?17:36
sivangGAN900: my N8 just got detained for 8 days in custom :-)17:36
sivangGAN900: my seoncd term forum nokia champion gift17:36
sivangGAN900: 8 whole days17:37
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MohammadAGdon't feel bad17:37
sivangGAN900: it flew from Espoo to here in just less then 24 hours!17:37
MohammadAGsame happened with the N90017:37
sivangMohammadAG: yes, it happened last year as well!17:37
MohammadAGcustoms suck17:37
sivangMohammadAG: especially ours..17:37
MohammadAGyeah, 34% on my N900 wasn't nice17:37
sivangAsiQue: interestig - what's your work mode?17:37
sivangMohammadAG: same here..17:38
AsiQuemy n900 wasn't delayed... had it labeld as mobile computer17:38
MohammadAGso they taxed you 17%17:38
sivangMohammadAG: You are also a champion ? should be IMHO17:38
sivangMohammadAG: yes, as if I bought it17:38
AsiQuesivang: embedded progrmming + fpga's, we are looking for another team member...17:38
MohammadAGif you didn't buy it, you don't pay tax17:38
MohammadAGor customs17:39
sivangMohammadAG: no use in crying saying it is not for porfit but to write cross platforms QML tutorials...:/17:39
MohammadAGand no, I'm not a champion17:39
MohammadAGbut I did request a DDP, didn't get charged for it17:39
sivangMohammadAG: as per
ZogGAsiQue, what company?17:39
* MohammadAG thanks Nokia17:39
AsiQuesivang DSIT17:39
sivangMohammadAG: I did the same, still had to pay since the value they decided it has is higher then market value inside .IL17:39
MohammadAGthe DDP had 7xx NIS tax on it, but they didn't make me pay it17:40
sivangMohammadAG: you know I paid for the first ever ubuntu cds to enter IL ?17:40
MohammadAGwhy pay for Ubuntu CDs? :P17:40
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MohammadAGI got taxed for books once17:41
sivangMohammadAG: the bearded guy at custom said I am going to sell them and that I am lying.17:41
sivangMohammadAG: to get them into .IL17:41
sivangthe warty cds!17:41
AsiQuelol ZogG, DSIT17:41
MohammadAGyeah, but why not download ISOs?17:41
sivangthanks AsiQue , can I log on a web site?17:41
MohammadAGthey're free anyway17:41
sivangAsiQue: do you follow a methodology ?17:41
sivangMohammadAG: they did not buy it./17:41
sivangMohammadAG: they said that noboy is going to gove 300cds for free17:42
AsiQuesivang, didn't understand the first question....17:42
sivangMohammadAG: but Hamakor compensated me with honorary membership for that.17:42
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AsiQuesivang, actually not... it's a small group with alot of work... beed trying to get things into order...17:42
sivangMohammadAG: for the 150nis I paid back in 200417:42
sivangAsiQue: how many hours of work a day? I take its a startup?17:43
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ZogGAsiQue, no need in stupid noobies in computer sphere, maybe linux junior admin or something or QA?17:43
AsiQuesivang, no it's not a startup... the rt group is small, were something like 30 ppl in the hw / sw field...17:44
timeless_w7ipsivang: were you missing proper documentation of ownership? or did they claim it hadn't been tested+approved?17:44
sivangAsiQue: I can offer you a sacrifice for thought in advance:
AsiQueZogG, no sorry,,,, we've got that coverd17:45
sivangAsiQue: sounds nice, got a job description and required qualifications?17:45
sivangtimeless_w7ip: no and no. they claimed there is no way I am not going to make profit out of it.17:45
AsiQuegive me a sec...17:46
sivangtimeless_w7ip: canonical sent letters, phones were exchanged etc17:46
sivangtimeless_w7ip: nothing helped.17:46
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sivangworkrave is angry. be back in 10 minutes17:46
ZogGAsiQue =(17:46
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ZogGAsiQue hard to get job with no experience for student nowdays =(17:47
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AsiQueZogG: yeha i know... a friend of mine tried to find a job some months ago... took him ages... (he just finished a math degree)17:48
AsiQuesivang.... so meggo is pronounced... meeeeegoooo.... cool :-)17:49
AsiQuesivang, listening to the lecture... :-)17:49
Jartzame go. to tampere ->17:50
ZogGAsiQue i'm failing on second year of software ing as i do not have enuf time to study17:50
MohammadAGI wonder if I could get a job :P17:51
AsiQueZogG, why don't you have time?17:52
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ZogGAsiQue i work a lot ans shitty shifts so when i do have ime i just fall asleep17:53
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ShadowJKI hope N9 will have a a tinkerbell emmc :(17:56
ZogGit will have nothing =)17:57
MohammadAGwhat N9?17:57
ZogGhe means magic17:57
ZogGjust kids around here17:58
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: a pair of random letters17:58
MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, thought so17:58
timeless_w7ipwhich hypothetically could conform to an outdated nokia model schema17:58
timeless_w7ipi don't have an n8, i have an n8-0017:58
timeless_w7ipso i'd expect there shouldn't be an n9 :)17:58
AsiQueZogG... where do you study?17:58
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ZogGmaybe over9000n would have mmc17:59
ShadowJK"Indilinx has new controller technology, called Tinkerbell, which is a high-performance e.MMC" ... "transfer data at 104MB/sec, at Double Data Rate, for both sequential and random I/Os"18:00
AsiQuesivang.... can we go private?18:00
ZogGAsiQue afeka18:01
ShadowJK104MB/s is somewhat more than the ~80 kbyte/s N900's emmc does :)18:01
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AsiQueZogG, cool... 2nd year from 4 right?18:01
timeless_w7ipmohammadag: well, that would be consistent with nokia's latest versioning trend18:01
timeless_w7ipor maybe it was the trend 6 months ago18:01
ZogGAsiQue don't touch sivang in unproper places18:01
timeless_w7ipsometimes i think they change trends more often than they ship products :)18:02
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sivangAsiQue: yes, I was in a workrave break18:10
timeless_w7ipsomeone signed timeless@gmail up for tickets to a BBC show18:11
timeless_w7ip(as Tim)18:11
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sivangtimeless_w7ip: lol18:11
sivangtimeless_w7ip: maybe the same guy who uses the same nick you told me about in Dublin ?18:12
sivangAsiQue: btw, the guy with the jokes and the funny stuff in that talk is timeless_w7ip :)18:13
AsiQueohh cool18:13
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sivangtimeless_w7ip: I just wanted to say, when network-manager screws you. Use W7 with joikuspot. network manager seems to not like joikuspot too much; re: w7ip nick18:16
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* ShadowJK likes to call it notworkmanager18:17
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sivangShadowJK: just like holdon-app-manager? ;)18:26
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ShadowJKluckily I only use appmanager once a month :)18:27
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sivangtimeless_w7ip: projects@FN load balancer is acting up :/18:32
timeless_w7ipandre__: i didn't feel like saying it, but that's the right conclusion18:37
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timeless_w7ipthe browser team to the extent it exists is interested in Fennec18:37
andre__timeless_w7ip, I'm fine with saying it ;-)18:38
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eichiis there a way to see the sms from sql database with human readable time and date?18:52
timeless_w7ipeichi: beyond the browser interface and just speaking sqlite?18:54
eichithere is a strange time_send etc. format18:55
eichiis this unix time?18:55
eichidont thinks, this is in the original n900 user manual18:56
crashanddiewhat's the format, exactly?18:57
crashanddieBecause last I checked, it was simple sqlite datetime or something18:57
eichi                   129560921118:57
eichiis a time18:57
crashanddieFri, 21 Jan 2011 11:26:51 GMT18:58
DocScrutinizertime for 12648430   ☕18:58
eichiand how to calculate this?18:59
crashanddieI give up18:59
crashanddielearn to RTFM.18:59
DocScrutinizerman date ; >>%s     seconds since 1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC19:02
DocScrutinizermore helpful: man sqlite319:04
DocScrutinizerif that's not one of the friggin berkley db19:05
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hillbicksgood evening everyone19:33
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hillbicksanyone here familiar with the queen beecon widget, specifically the gps funtion? i read 45 pages of the thread and couldn't even find a question about it. tbh, I can't make much of the wiki description for this function as it merely points to the location api page. So, any hint in the right direction is very much appreciated19:40
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DocScrutinizer/o\  >>> 2:35 (approximately) CNN Reports that a 3km evacuation zone has been declared around a second nuclear facility that is approximately 30km south of Fukushima plant. No further details were provided.<<<19:53
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DocScrutinizerI thought that's Fukushima-II ~20km South of Fuku-I19:54
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BCMMDocScrutinizer: haven't they already got a >3km evacuation zone?19:54
jacekowskithey did19:55
jacekowskinow they expanded it19:55
Aquarinahi again, is someone aware of a page explaining how to install easydebian on n810?19:56
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Macerjapan is doomed19:58
Macerright now a meltdown might help if the reactor just goes straight down and keeps going19:58
Macerthen has the molten rock melt closed behind it19:59
DocScrutinizerwell, I suggested yesterday they should actively initiate core discharge *now* rather than waiting till it burns thru the floor and nobody has _any_ control over the situation20:00
BCMMMacer: groundwater.20:00
BCMMand soluble thigs20:00
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MacerBCMM: it will go right through that. i a week or so the ground water will be fine20:00
BCMMMacer: there is absolutely totally no way that would happen without radioactive iodine dissolving in the groundwater20:00
DocScrutinizerMacer: BS20:00
BCMMi mean, lots of it20:00
Macerheh. well i figure ground water flows... so won't it just flush out?20:01
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DocScrutinizerotoh ground water at shore usually is salty and not usable20:01
Macerjust drink bottled water :)20:01
DocScrutinizerand tends to flow from land to sea20:02
BCMMalso, between breaching containment and melting through the floor (if it does such a thing), the melt will most likely *catch fire*20:02
Macerbccmexplosions are the problem... and atmosphere release20:02
BCMMcatch fire == atmospheric release20:02
MacerBCMM: so ..... :)20:02
Macerwhy? if it goes through the containment building floor....?20:03
DocScrutinizer(land to sea) unless of course they are pumping up so much of it for tapwater, that the sea water pushes in landward to replace the loss (happening in all spain)20:03
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Macerthe containment building filters radioative materials.. so a "fire" would be contained as it melts and creates molten rock around it20:04
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* javispedro doesn't drink seawater..20:04
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Maceri am sure the molten rock might work well for convection. as lont as the rods are in decay heat will go away sooner or later20:04
DocScrutinizerMacer: again BS20:05
timeless_w7ipjavispedro: do you eat fish?20:05
MacerDocScrutinizer: flowing ground water might help :)20:06
DocScrutinizerMacer: which rods? in a molten gue of 3000°C and critical mass? that's the major problem of a coremelt: it tends to start chain reaction again20:06
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BCMMMacer: stuff somehow burrowing into the ground straight from the red thing?20:07
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Macergue is a nicer sounding word tho :)20:08
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Macersounds like g-ew20:09
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BCMMalso, the groundwater isn't "flushing" stuff into the centre of the earth or something20:09
BCMMit's all still gotta go somewhere20:09
Proteouseaten by a grue20:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: though previous examples prove that even in cases of large part of the fuel melting, fission tends not to happen (mostly because it also melts with metal, concrete, etc.)20:09
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javispedroby previous examples I mean TMI and Chernobyl, even.20:09
javispedrotimeless_w7ip: Yes :)20:10
MacerBCMM: so a few whales die20:10
BCMMjavispedro: presumably, the control rods would end up in the melt too, moderating the neutron flux20:10
DocScrutinizerfill up concrete pool under reactor with sand and borax, "pull plug" of containment so all the molten material can exit of containment as it melts down, not collect to a 70 tons blob of whiteglowing 3000° molten critical pulp20:10
javispedrosadly, that is expensive to clean.20:11
javispedroif containment keeps you're talking about a 30 year few million project.20:11
DocScrutinizerfew billion you mean20:12
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javispedrono, few million.20:13
DocScrutinizerfor now they still are in danger of a pressurized coremelt, which doesn't end as a china syndrome but rather like a small nuke explosion20:13
RST38hDoc,javispedro: folks, do not make a mistake of playing nuclear engineers not having any background20:14
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* javispedro does have a slight background in reactor retirement...20:14
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: uhuh, so they sanitized ThreMiles with a few million? Darn our technicians here in Germany are idiots, each of the Nuke plants we dismantled so far cost a few billion20:15
timeless_w7ipdoc: inflation :)20:16
DocScrutinizerand those were in "perfect condition" when dismantling20:16
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javispedrowell, the entire budget for the dismantling of a plant that is at around 30 km from here was 200 million euro (not adjusted)20:16
RST38hDoc: This is not idiocy. This is wise application of federal funds.20:17
javispedroand it wasn't in "perfect" condition, it was dismantled because of a INES level 3 "incident"20:17
DocScrutinizerwow, lives are cheap where you live, aren't they?20:17
javispedroDocScrutinizer: the plan is that on less than 15 years there will be no building and/or measurable radiation level left; so far, they're on plan...20:17
MohammadAGironic that my mediaplayer starts faster even on a clean device (out of the box - 9 songs or so)20:19
DocScrutinizergenerally dismantling of a nuklear facility with severe contamination (if only of PV, turbines, all the other 'expected' 'hot' items) is significantly more expensive than building the crap20:19
BCMMMohammadAG: wow... how?20:20
BCMMMohammadAG: and is that as the first Qt application run since boot?20:20
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kerioMohammadAG: i call hax20:20
MohammadAGBCMM, yes20:20
ZogGKaKaRoTo, you are here as well?20:21
KaKaRoToZogG, obviously...20:21
kerioisn't the media player just a bit of glue between mafw and tracker?20:21
ZogGAfter playing with #QML for the next Khweeteur version, i ll revert to QWidget. Too slow and use too much memory !20:21
MohammadAGkerio, mafw, only the stock player glues like an idiot to tracker20:21
DocScrutinizerof course you can use 30 tons of C4 and then point at the pile of rocks and say "look, now it's dismantled. Mission accomplished" - this probably actually can be done with a few millions20:22
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kerioMohammadAG: oh, so that's why yours is better20:22
kerioi called it20:22
javispedroDocScrutinizer: not only that but contamination also lengthens the process20:22
ShadowJKpour concrete into the building, and then some, call it dismantled20:22
MohammadAGkerio, have fun laughing
javispedroDocScrutinizer: which is one of the reasons it might be desirable to release a few radiation before starting the "pour concrete all over the place" plan.20:22
Venemogood evening20:23
keriotracker is speschul!20:23
VenemoMohammadAG, lol!?20:23
javispedroDocScrutinizer: ShadowJK: (C4, concrete) no western country does that, not in the current climate at least ;)20:24
javispedrochina, on the other side...20:24
MohammadAGstock player fails at getting info due to heavy dependancies on tracker20:24
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MohammadAG(randomly of course)20:25
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MohammadAGyou can see both are handling mafe (same number of songs, same position)20:26
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DocScrutinizerMy advice from beginning: implement mediaplayer in a way it works even completely without tracker installed on system. When that's accomplished, ponder how to add in some tracker support that doesn't break things when tracker acts up (what it usually does)20:28
MohammadAGmafw works without tracker20:29
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MohammadAGidk how, but it does20:29
RST38hDoc <-- speaks the truth20:31
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dangergrrlfor my next fun and exciting task20:34
dangergrrli want the maemo dev tools installed on sabayon which means i'll be using gentoo portage20:35
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dangergrrlmy nets are down again today, glad i got tethering working yesterday; using wvdial20:35
javispedroif you're talking about scratchbox, this is no fun, it is mostly self contained.20:35
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dangergrrlit looked like a custom scratchbox version that at least isn't supported by sabayon maybe not gentoo either20:37
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dangergrrlno idea why wvdial works and the gnome networking tools don't but i have something working so i don't care :)20:37
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javispedro"supported"? sb1 even brings its own libc to the table. it needs virtually _nothing_ save a shell from the distro.20:38
dangergrrlfor one it's dialing a different number, *99***1# instead of *99#20:38
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RST38hBehold: #3 at the front, #4 at the back20:42
pupniki wonder if anybody has ever bombed a running nuclear reactor20:42
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RST38hpupnik:No, not yet20:43
RST38hActually, I am wrong, someone has:
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pupnikyou're still wrong20:48
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timeless_w7ipjavispedro: sometimes it needs a compiler (if you want to build sb1 yourself..)21:09
javispedrogood point21:09
javispedrothough if you want to built it ,21:09
javispedrolast time I had to find debian sarge cds ;)21:09
javispedro(though afaik this been's improved since hathor release)21:09
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Aquarinacould someone please tell me that there are a lot of people working on having a working and patched maemo for n810 devices?21:17
pupnikpatched for what21:18
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DocScrutinizerwell, my N810 says "maemo Linux based OS2008 Version: 5.2008.43-7" - and I always thought it kinda works21:21
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DocScrutinizerAquarina: so yes, if that makes you happy: "~267.000 developers are working on having a working and patched maemo for n810 devices"21:23
AquarinaDocScrutinizer, great!21:24
Aquarinajust what I wanted to know21:24
Aquarinanow... I don't see much appening on maemo site21:24
Aquarinaas far as I know, maemo is very similar to debian except there may be some kernel patches, right?21:25
Aquarinahere's what I'm looking for:21:26
Aquarinamake my device multiuser21:26
Aquarinaexport the display21:26
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Aquarinaconfigure iptables and have it share internet connection21:26
Aquarinathose are the most importante ones21:27
Aquarina(asside from having an enervating bug on gnumeric fixed, which I cannot do)21:28
Aquarinacan someone help me on that?21:28
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Aquarinaoh!... and have it update21:30
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Aquarinapupnik, sorry, I didn't see your line there21:32
Aquarinapatched for security fixes and so on21:32
Aquarinaallways "no updates available"!21:33
AquarinaI know: we're so damn good that there are no bugs...21:33
pupniknot much interest in newer kernels and stuff21:33
Aquarinabut if I ssh into it and do an apt-get update; apt-get upgrade..21:34
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Aquarinasomething wrong happends, which I don't recall anymore21:34
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pupniki think some folks are updating their packages21:35
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rm_worki haven't touched my stuff on Maemo4 in... since Maemo5 :P21:35
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rm_workof course it pretty much worked perfectly by that time, was just working on feature requests21:36
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Aquarinajust doing it now:21:37
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Aquarinasignatures could not be verified21:37
Aquarinalet's apt-get upgrade21:37
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Aquarinax11-common is being kept back21:38
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Aquarinaalso, how do I update my keychain?21:39
rm_workif you type "apt-get install x11-common" it will tell you what other packages it depends on that aren't going to be installed for some reason21:39
Aquarinalet's do that21:40
rm_workbut i wouldn't recommend forcing it21:40
rm_workbecause if you say "yes, install this" it will probably break something21:40
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rm_workthere's usually some reason it's holding stuff back, and with x11 it's kind of a big one to take chances on :p21:40
Aquarinax11-common: Depends: debianutils (>= 1.13)21:40
Aquarinashould I try to install debianutils?21:41
rm_workapt-cache policy debianutils21:41
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Aquarinainstalled: none; candidate: 2.1721:42
Aquarinashould be ok21:42
Proteousfamous last words21:43
Proteoussoon followed by, why does it not booooooooottttt21:43
AquarinaThe following packages have unmet dependencies:21:44
Aquarina  debianutils: PreDepends: coreutils (>= 4.5.8-1)21:44
Aquarina               PreDepends: mktemp21:44
Aquarina  hildon-initscripts: Depends: osso-af-startup but it is not going to be installed21:44
AquarinaProteous, are you vaticinating something?21:44
Aquarinaer... does "vaticinating" exist?21:44
Aquarinarm_work, what should I do? think it's dangerous to go ahead and install coreutils and mktemp?21:46
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rm_workprobably another reason why they aren't installed21:46
Proteousvaticinationg? To Vaticinate?21:47
rm_workthe dependency tree in Maemo4 has gotten a bit broken <_<21:47
rm_workyou can try21:47
rm_workworst case, you have to reflash your device21:47
rm_workif you're ok with that, go for it21:47
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ProteousVaticination: n.  The act of prophesying.21:48
Proteousso yeas21:48
Proteouser, yes21:48
Aquarinashoud not update x11?21:48
timeless_xchat-bash: warning: setlocale: LC_MESSAGES: cannot change locale (en_US.UTF-8): No such file or directory21:49
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Aquarinarm_work, I'm ok with that, I've done it, but not now...21:49
AquarinaI need it to work21:49
timeless_xchatanyone know how to make that go away?21:49
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Aquarinawhat should I do?21:50
Aquarinado you guys have yours updated without thar error?21:50
Aquarina1st: how do I update the apt-keys?21:51
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Aquarinaanyone on how do I get the new keys»?21:54
Aquarinaapt-get what?!21:54
DocScrutinizer~dict Vaticination21:55
infobotDictionary 'Vaticination' (2): knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)  ;; \Va*tic`i*na"tion\, n. [L. vaticinatio.] Prediction; prophecy. [1913 Webster] It is not a false utterance; it is a true, though an impetuous, vaticination.                 --I. Taylor. [1913 Webster].21:55
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Aquarinaoh Proteous devine source: how do I meke my sources.list clean?21:57
DocScrutinizertimeless_xchat: could this somehow be rekated to maemo fubar on true LANG=C, or maybe to your improved translations?21:58
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timeless_xchatdocScrutinizer : the former, yeah22:01
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timeless_xchatssh is helpfully forwarding those vars22:01
timeless_xchatand my destination box has no locales22:01
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rm_workAquarina: i honestly haven't touched my n800 in like... at least a year22:05
rm_workAquarina: i think most of your list of stuff just isn't going to happen, unless you do it yourself, but some of it i don't think is even possible22:06
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rm_worklike, making an n810 a multi-user device isn't going to happen, at least not in the UI. you could let more than one person SSH in... but the UI will *always* run as "user"22:06
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rm_workunless you feel like rewriting almost the entirety of the UI, lol22:07
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rm_workdid Mer ever work 100% on N810?22:07
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timeless_xchatwhy would someone want multiple users for a PDA?22:09
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Aquarinasorry, had to go take care of dinner22:10
* timeless_xchat is eating dinner 22:11
* mgedmin wouldn't mind a "guest mode" before giving his PDA for someone to play with/check out the UI -- though this doesn't necessarily require multiple users22:11
timeless_xchatyou can take your n900 out to dinner :)22:11
Aquarinatimeless_xchat, to hand it to someone, to have your girlfriend use it without messing with your stuff...22:11
Aquarinalots of reasons22:11
MohammadAGwhy would you hide something from your girlfriend? :P22:11
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timeless_xchataquarina: would this other user be able to install stuff?22:12
Aquarinamgedmin, no?22:12
Aquarinamgedmin, please give me the solution22:12
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Aquarinatimeless_xchat, not necessarily no22:12
Aquarinawouldn't be root22:13
Aquarinaat least have some other username and home dir22:13
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timeless_xchatout of the box, most data is stored on FAT3222:13
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timeless_xchateither because it's removable media22:14
timeless_xchator because it's designed to plug into a usb host22:14
pupniknice idea mgedmin22:14
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held_any n800 users online?22:14
timeless_xchatto actually protect data22:15
timeless_xchatyou'd have to encrypt it22:15
timeless_xchaton an n8x0, that won't be good for battery life22:15
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Aquarinahum... let's go one step at a time22:15
timeless_xchatnor would it be good for responsiveness22:15
AquarinaI can see that22:15
timeless_xchatlet's ignore your data22:16
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timeless_xchatand consider settings22:16
* SpeedEvil would like a pictbridge gadget too.22:16
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timeless_xchatshould a visitor be able to adjust the volume?22:16
SpeedEvil(for some reason my printer does not like my n900)22:16
timeless_xchatwhat about brightness?22:16
Aquarinawhy not?22:16
BluesLeethe n800 had also a skype client right?22:16
SpeedEvilSame as with X.22:16
timeless_xchatdesktop applets?22:17
timeless_xchatblueslee: yes22:17
SpeedEvilIf it locks, you get a 'pick user' screen.22:17
timeless_xchathow about the clock?22:17
Aquarinamaybe I'm being naive, but I'd like to make it mimic a real computer22:17
Aquarinathat's all22:17
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timeless_xchataquarina: real computers don't walk away22:17
SpeedEviltimeless_xchat: laptops do.22:17
timeless_xchatand their brains aren't the size of a fingernail22:17
BluesLeetimeless_xchat: can you upload your configuration file /etc/skyhost/skypevideocodecs.conf?22:18
Aquarinabut they're too heavy to be caring around on a pe lesson22:18
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Aquarinaor to go running with them, or biking...22:18
timeless_xchatblueslee : i'd have to walk home and turn one on22:19
BluesLeetimeless_xchat: i am trying to get n900 <-> linux pc video call to work22:19
BluesLeeanyone else with an n800?22:19
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AquarinaBluesLee, n810, but never used skype22:19
Aquarinaok, now... how do I get rid of apt-key errors?22:20
BluesLeeAquarina: was it build in software?22:20
BluesLeeAquarina: can you look up if there is a file /etc/skyhost/skypevideocodecs.conf?22:20
timeless_xchatblueslee : it was a standalone app iirc22:21
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Aquarinathere isn't22:21
timeless_xchatcustom, but standalone22:21
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BluesLeehow do i get a copy of it?22:21
Aquarinapublic keys are not available22:22
BluesLeetimeless_xchat: maybe you can sent me a pn on tmo with the file?22:22
Aquarinahow do I get them?22:22
timeless_xchati don't do tmo22:22
timeless_xchatbut i'm not even sure what you seek exists22:23
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BluesLeetimeless_xchat: it exists on my n90022:24
Aquarinanext doubt: how do I export the display to my computer through ssh22:25
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AquarinaI did ssh -X ....22:26
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Aquarinawhat's the terminal called?!22:26
timeless_xchataquarina: s/doubt/question|concern/g22:26
timeless_xchat /usr/bin/osso-xterm22:27
timeless_xchat... you doubt the certainty of a statement22:27
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timeless_xchatwhen you have a question, you have a question22:27
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timeless_xchatwhen you are concerned, you have one (or more) concern(s)22:28
Aquarinatimeless_xchat, tks22:28
timeless_xchatwhen in doubt (about the certainty of whether you should use "doubt"), assume you shouldn't22:28
Aquarinasshed into the device with -X option, but nothing apeared on my screen22:29
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DeeleHello ladies and gents22:29
DeeleSuggest me best place to ask for replacement part - Lens Glass Cover, for N81022:30
Aquarinathe terminal apears on the device screen22:30
DocScrutinizerDeele: errr, I doubt there is any way tlo get that as a single part22:31
timeless_xchataquarina: yeah22:31
timeless_xchatbecause most apps cheat22:31
timeless_xchatthey're actually a launcher22:31
timeless_xchatwhich talks to a daemon22:31
DeeleDocScrutinizer, I saw only full front cover, but it costs too much (
timeless_xchatwhich forks and loads the actual app22:31
DocScrutinizerDeele: even that's amazing22:31
timeless_xchatyou need to use run-standalone or -summoner / -invoker or something22:32
timeless_xchatgoogle. ..22:32
Aquarinaso... what ...22:32
DeeleDocScrutinizer, maybe someone has dead 810, with that part as spare...22:32
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Aquarinaby the way: what is osso?22:32
DeeleI have only 770 dead :D22:32
Deelewith that stupid WhiteScreenOfDeath22:32
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Aquarinanever got my head around what's the mapping betwin that and x server/window manager/...22:33
DocScrutinizermaybe, but I again doubt those individuals would be willing to sell a 0.03g plastic chip22:33
Deelemaybe, they would give it for free :)22:33
timeless_xchataquarina: google22:33
DocScrutinizerDeele: I'm even uncertain about whether it can get disassembled from front cover22:34
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DeeleDocScrutinizer, it is sitting on my desk ATM :) I disasembled my nokia, took out that part, made a photo22:35
timeless_xchatosso was a division22:35
timeless_xchathildon was a toolkit22:35
timeless_xchata window manager manages windows22:35
timeless_xchatan x server serves x clients. offering drawing primitives and input events22:35
DocScrutinizerDeele: you'd for sure have to buy a complete broken N810 and disassemble yourself. Nobody is going to sell a broken N810 by the plastic chip22:35
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Aquarinatimeless_xchat, so ildon is what on a desktop computer? gtk?22:36
Aquarinafor example?22:36
timeless_xchathildon is a gtk derivative22:37
Aquarina(I'm not a programmer, so...)22:37
DocScrutinizer"ebay: button power, plastic, 0.004g. Buy now: 60ct -- also see my other 758 auctions with unique N810 spare parts" LOL22:37
timeless_xchatgtk is a toolkit22:37
timeless_xchathildon is gtk with replacement widget objects for mobile22:37
DeeleDocScrutinizer, you said something about people not selling such a stuff? :DD I will see that in ebay22:37
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DocScrutinizerDeele: that's been a hoax by me to show how silly that sounds22:38
Aquarinathe window manager?22:38
timeless_xchat<timeless_xchat> osso was a division22:38
DeeleDocScrutinizer, can you give me a link to that item?22:39
DocScrutinizerDeele: that's been a hoax by me to show how silly that sounds22:39
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DocScrutinizeropen source specialforces Oslo22:40
Aquarinaer... what you mean a division? some folks ...22:40
DeeleDocScrutinizer, lol, I got it now :DD22:40
Aquarinadidn't get it22:40
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DocScrutinizerOffice for Seriously Silly Options22:41
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AquarinaOr Some Stupid Otherthing22:41
timeless_xchataquarina: ...22:42
timeless_xchata division is generally a group of people22:42
AquarinaI'm still googling for run-standalone22:42
Aquarinatryed it and nothing happened22:42
Aquarinawhat else was I supose to google?...22:43
timeless_xchatoddly enough, software is not deus ex nihilo22:43 <yourapp>22:43
AquarinaI did that22:43
Aquarinathe app still didn't show up on my computer22:43
DocScrutinizercheck your firewall on PC22:44
Aquarinano fw22:44
Aquarinaxhost +22:44
timeless_xchatuse ssh forwarding22:44
timeless_xchatdon't mess with xhost22:45
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AquarinaI'm doing it22:45
DocScrutinizercheck DISPLAY setting22:45
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Aquarinaon the device?22:45
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timeless_xchatin your ssh session22:46
DocScrutinizerthere's something kinky going on with ssh exporting the wrong DISPLAY on your behalf, or sth along that line - at least I seem to remember such reports22:47
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Aquarinadisplay is :0.022:47
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DocScrutinizergenerally you don't want to log in as root via ssh, to start&forward X, I'd guess22:47
Aquarinathat's probably it22:48
Aquarinalet's see...22:48
DocScrutinizerroot has no session bus, no session even22:49
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Aquarinacan't log in as normal user22:50
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe you want to drop some .ssh/authorized_keys there22:50
timeless_xchatadd an ssh authorized_keys file for user22:50
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AquarinaI have to go dinner22:52
timeless_xchat vaguely indicates you want to install xauth22:52
Aquarinatomorrow I'll try that22:52
Aquarinatimeless_xchat, and shouldn't I?22:53
* timeless_xchat shruga22:53
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* timeless_xchat shrugs22:53
* timeless_xchat would 22:53
SpeedEvilYou can cheat.22:53
SpeedEvilssh in to n90022:53
timeless_xchatsadly the other box i can reach doesn't have x1122:54
SpeedEvilssh out to desktop, with X forwarding22:54
SpeedEvilrun xauth on that22:54
timeless_xchatwhich makes testing painful :)22:54
Aquarinathat I can try now22:55
timeless_xchatspeedevil : but i don't see how that helps22:55
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AquarinaI once been told that, I think I tryed it and it didn't work22:55
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Aquarinaunable to open display ""22:57
AquarinaI'm going to eat a bull22:58
Aquarinathank you22:58
Aquarinatomorrow I'll hammer on this a little bit more22:58
timeless_xchatdo you have a goal?22:59
timeless_xchatmost maemo apps are designed for a fixed screen resolution23:00
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timeless_xchatand by running stuff on your maemo device, you aren't gaining processing power23:00
timeless_xchatsometimes, it's simpler to use vnc23:01
timeless_xchator qemu-arm23:01
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Aquarinatimeless_xchat, I'd like to have gnumeric exported to my main screen where I could use my keyboard and mouse23:02
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Aquarinawithout having to install a gnumeric instance on my computer23:02
Aquarinajust to edit a few files23:02
timeless_xchati'd just install gnumeric and use sshfs or scp23:03
timeless_xchator use vnc23:03
AquarinaI tryed vnc but it was allways disconecting23:03
timeless_xchatthere's really no good reason to do what you're doing23:03
Aquarinadon't know why23:04
Aquarinathere's probably no good reason to play guitart23:04
Aquarinabut, believe me23:05
timeless_xchatin general, x isn't more tolerant than vnc23:05
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Aquarinait would realy help me getting my work done23:05
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timeless_xchatand if your xsession is broken, your apps will commit suicide23:05
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timeless_xchatthat'd be bad for gnumeric23:05
Aquarinasee you next day23:06
Aquarinatomorrow or so...23:06
Aquarinaand thank you, I know i'm not very easy to understand at times23:07
Aquarinaand not very easy to convince23:07
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sq-oneis the original nokia case (cp-408) for the n900 recommendable?23:17
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luke-jrsq-one: no23:40
luke-jractually, I don't know23:40
luke-jrCP-408 is not the original NIT case23:40
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timeless_w7ipthe TSG23:55
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