IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2011-03-14

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ZogG_laptopVenemo, sorry i got timeout00:05
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ZogG_laptop1) can u up it00:05
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ZogG_laptop2) can u check what i did wrong (rewritted it)]00:05
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MohammadAGoh dear00:09
MohammadAGqrc:/entertainmentview.qml:138:9: QML Image: Cannot open: qrc:/home/user/.cache/media-art/album-7215ee9c7d9dc229d2921a40e899ec5f-6125f3f0367e2f34fc2656b572605d7d.jpeg00:09
ZogG_laptopVenemo, found error00:10
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VenemoZogG_laptop: k00:11
ZogG_laptopVenemo, can u up ur version00:11
VenemoZogG_laptop: yes, where?00:11
ZogG_laptopanywhere u can00:12
VenemoZogG_laptop: ok00:12
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ezistohello folks00:14
ezistois there a way to get an android app to work under maemo ?00:15
ZogG_laptopgoogle for alien dalvik00:16
MohammadAGalien dalvik, unreleased00:16
VenemoZogG_laptop: ok, uploading00:16
ezistoyeah i couldn’t find it any where00:17
VenemoZogG_laptop: please upload this to git00:18
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VenemoZogG_laptop: short description: if you want to add an XMMS-related feature, then add it to Xmms2Connector, and then connect that to the GUI00:19
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VenemoZogG_laptop: NEVER, EVER add such code to the GUI layer - it just makes your code unreadable and hard to follow or debug00:19
ZogG_laptopu mean one i did now?00:20
VenemoZogG_laptop: 'u'?00:20
ZogG_laptopi uploaded something new00:20
Venemobased on my code?00:21
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VenemoZogG_laptop: yes, I see you did something similar00:22
VenemoZogG_laptop: now please, use my Xmms2Connector00:22
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ezistothank you guys for the file00:22
VenemoZogG_laptop: it sends proper Qt signals and does a lot of other things :)00:22
ezistobut one more thing.. is it a Qt application ?00:23
ZogG_laptopVenemo, does it make coffee?00:23
VenemoZogG_laptop: of course00:23
ZogG_laptopVenemo, i did it based on your old files00:23
ZogG_laptopso i'm learning a little bit00:23
VenemoZogG_laptop: re-base on my new ones00:24
ezistoand do i need Qt installed in order to launch it ?00:24
ZogG_laptopok i'll so it tomorrow, anyway noone follows my repo now =)00:24
VenemoZogG_laptop: do it now00:24
ZogG_laptopwhy so hurry00:25
MohammadAGGuru Meditation: XID: 128149275600:25
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ZogG_laptopi just wanted to read it first properly00:25
* MohammadAG sighs at gitorious00:25
VenemoZogG_laptop: well, _I_ hurried for you. :P00:25
ZogG_laptopi'll do00:25
ZogG_laptopi'll do00:25
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ZogG_laptopezisto, u better not use it for now00:25
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VenemoZogG_laptop: also, it can now refresh your label and everything00:26
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VenemoZogG_laptop: look at the code of the callbacks if you want to know how :)00:27
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VenemoZogG_laptop: also, NEVER use global variables for such a purpose as you did00:27
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Zero_DoggCan the n810 use some form of external wireless dongle? My n810 reboots whenever the wlan is used (ie. when the connection manager scans for networks)00:28
VenemoZero_Dogg: try a reflash00:29
ezistookay thank you anyway00:29
Zero_DoggVenemo: done that, several times. Doesn't change anything00:29
VenemoZero_Dogg: well then either take it to the repair centre or find a dongle that it can support with its host mode :)00:30
ZogG_laptopVenemo, i almost was there, just needed to add this instead of NULL and i didn't know how to declare static functions in *.h now i know00:30
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ZogG_laptopVenemo, backed up mine so i can see the differences00:30
VenemoZogG_laptop: ok, don't worry :)00:30
ZogG_laptopWriting objects: 100% (8/8), 1.76 KiB, done.00:31
ZogG_laptopTotal 8 (delta 6), reused 0 (delta 0)00:31
Zero_DoggVenemo: nod, warranty on it is up, so could probably buy a used one for less than the repairs would cost. I do have Linux compatible usb dongles, but I'm guessing the n810's kernel probably doesn't ship with the modules00:31
ZogG_laptopVenemo, actually i tryed it before like that when it was in one file00:31
VenemoZogG_laptop: the this pointer is then passed to the user_data of the callbacks, so you can access an instance of the object from there00:31
VenemoZogG_laptop: then it emits a signal which is picked up by the slot at the main window00:31
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VenemoZogG_laptop: and in that slot, I change the text of the label00:32
VenemoZogG_laptop: and note that those are static functions of a class, and not just static functions00:32
VenemoZogG_laptop: this means that they can access the private members of the class00:33
VenemoZogG_laptop: I also recommend you to learn some OOP and C++ :)00:33
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ZogG_laptopbut this NULL and static thing ruined it as i declared those functions under private slots and got error with xmmsc_result_notifier_set00:34
ZogG_laptopVenemo, but i need to change ur code now too00:34
VenemoZogG_laptop: what do you need in it?00:34
ZogG_laptopVenemo, as u still used asynced method00:34
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VenemoZogG_laptop: ok, feel free to change it. :)00:35
ZogG_laptopi need to polish the way u get info and change xmmsc_result_wait00:35
ZogG_laptopnow i need to sleep as i woke up in 5 hours and still didn't took shower00:35
ZogG_laptopthanks man00:35
VenemoZogG_laptop, okay. if you have a problem or question, just ask :)00:36
ZogG_laptopVenemo, when and if i'll finish kinda useable version i would need help to make widget (it would be easier just relaying on existing code of program)00:36
VenemoZogG_laptop: what widget?00:36
ZogG_laptopand again man, many many thanks00:36
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VenemoZogG_laptop: you're welcome :)00:37
ZogG_laptopVenemo, a lt of things i just learn from how u did it00:38
VenemoZogG_laptop: I'm happy for you :)00:38
ZogG_laptopi mean there are things i dunno how to do or that i can do, and than i see the solution and i do understand for next time00:38
ZogG_laptopbut still i'm slow learner =(00:39
VenemoZogG_laptop: no problem. I had lots of trouble when I learned C++00:39
Arkenoiwow, surprised to know batteries "bigger than original" capacity do exist, i thought all of those are fake00:39
VenemoZogG_laptop: also, I had lots of trouble some time later when I learned Qt00:39
ZogG_laptopthey are bigger in all meanings00:39
VenemoZogG_laptop: so if I can help others to suffer less than I did, I'm happy :)00:39
ZogG_laptopi know a little bit C and no Qt00:39
VenemoArkenoi: which one is not fake?00:39
VenemoZogG_laptop: no problem00:40
Venemo[23:33] <Venemo> ZogG_laptop: I also recommend you to learn some OOP and C++ :)00:40
ZogG_laptopi have friend he is just getting it from code, he even doesn't need to read manuals sometimes00:40
ZogG_laptophe is quicklearner00:40
ZogG_laptopbut he never share even his programs00:40
ZogG_laptophe just doesn't care00:40
VenemoZogG_laptop: my father once said, the more you learn, the faster you can learn :)00:41
Arkenoivenemo: "scud" from aliexpress, said to be 1510 (even more than claimed 1450)00:41
ZogG_laptopbut he is more like python+gtk+c guy00:41
Arkenoierr, claimed 142000:41
ZogG_laptopVenemo, do u know java?00:41
Arkenoithere is thread on tmo00:41
VenemoZogG_laptop: java? NO! I only know a single joke about java00:42
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VenemoArkenoi: link please?00:42
ZogG_laptopbad, found pretty program for android00:42
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VenemoZogG_laptop: why do all java programmers wear glasses?00:42
ZogG_laptopit is based on C program00:42
ZogG_laptopVenemo, dunnp00:42
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VenemoZogG_laptop: because they don't C#!00:42
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VenemoZogG_laptop: as in C# [see sharp]00:43
VenemoZogG_laptop: I'm a C# / .NET developer too. or rather, I was before I started with Qt :)00:43
ZogG_laptopaso this program is based on program on C that is ported to maemo it can be built with qt4 or qpe or gpe or gtk and android uses it just to make more userfriendly gui00:44
VenemoMohammadAG: we were talking about wrapper classes earlier, remember?00:44
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VenemoMohammadAG: the Xmms2Connector class I wrote for ZogG_laptop is a good example of a wrapper00:44
ZogG_laptopVenemo, yeah i got it00:44
VenemoZogG_laptop: okay then :)00:44
Venemothx Arkenoi00:44
ZogG_laptopanyway CYA00:44
Venemobb ZogG_laptop, sleep well00:45
MohammadAGVenemo, I wrote MafwPlaylistAdapter :)00:45
VenemoMohammadAG: :):):)00:45
Arkenoitime to order new battery anyways, mine is one year old00:45
VenemoArkenoi: please do tell me if it's really any better than the original one00:46
Arkenoiyep, i really hope so :-)00:46
ZogG_laptopis it bigger?00:46
ZogG_laptopi mean size00:46
Arkenoinope, the size is similar00:46
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VenemoArkenoi, so it fits into the N900 without adding more bulkiness? that's good00:47
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ZogG_laptopand it's 1510 when original is ...00:47
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ZogG_laptopnot bad00:48
ZogG_laptop+- more 4-6 hours on regular usage i assume00:48
Venemothe original is not 135000:48
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ZogG_laptopVenemo, than original is ?00:49
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VenemoZogG_laptop: mine is 132000:51
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Arkenoiah, maybe 132000:52
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Arkenoianyways, 1510 means a few extra hours you may need so desperately sometimes00:53
Venemoyeah :)00:54
lolcatArkenoi: A bigger battery? Where?00:55
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lolcat23:40 <@arcade> Ymgve: Forøvrig, jeg ville tatt Nils Bøhmer i bellone med  fem klyper salt.  Ikke at det han sier er galt, men det er  litt .. opphausset.00:55
lolcatAccidental paste00:56
strunzgood evening :-)00:56
Venemogood evening strunz00:56
strunzi`ve a question about n900 and maemo00:57
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strunzwhen i start sygic mm10 it crashes on n90000:59
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jacekowskibecause you've got pirated version01:00
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strunzno, i bought it from a distributor01:01
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ezistoVenemo: could you please tell me how to run that fresh on n900, i will be thankful if you show me how :)01:07
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lolcatThis is it? I have to buy three of them?01:09
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cehtehi'd take one :)01:11
lolcatI should order 1000, then they are sick cheap01:11
lolcatThen I just need a charger01:12
lolcatIf I have 4 batteries it is ez to replace them while doing stuff01:12
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cehtehwhere are you that it is hard to get replacement batteries? ... i can just pick one up at the next mobile shop here01:14
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lolcatcehteh: I wanted the one with 1500mAH01:14
lolcatMy phone is @ Nokia for repair of the USB port I think01:14
cehtehwell .. me too .. but ... its just a sticker :)01:15
SpeedEvilI can sell you one marked as 2500mAh01:15
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cehtehanyone of you has the equipment to reliable measure battery charge? DocScrutinizer dont you have an electronics lab?01:15
DocScrutinizer51cehteh: rudimentary01:16
cehtehah nice01:16
jacekowskicehteh: how do you define battery charge01:16
jacekowskiamount of energy you can pull from battery before it cannot be recharged back to like 95% of previous capacity01:17
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DocScrutinizer51cehteh: why?01:17
cehtehjacekowski: mAh or mWh ... there are ways to measure it01:17
jacekowskior amount of energy you can pull from battery before device it's powering shuts down on low voltage01:17
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jacekowskicehteh: but mAh or mWh don't tell you when you stop your measurments01:18
cehtehwell if you want you can measure the joules ... but thats a bit inconvinent01:18
cehtehjacekowski: well within design limits of the device01:18
cehtehwhen you know that it shuts down at 3.2 volts then you just programm your testing equiment the same way01:18
jacekowskiat what current?01:19
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cehtehwhatever .. some 'typical' for the device .. the current you draw isnt really much critical01:19
jacekowskiit is01:20
jacekowskibattery capacity changes with current you pull01:20
jacekowskiless current you pull more energy you can get01:20
cehtehnot that much01:20
cehtehnot with liion01:20
cehtehwell i am not talking about shorten it01:21
jacekowskiif you have 1Ah liiion and pull 1A from it and pull 100mA from it01:21
jacekowskiyou will get like 50% more from it at 100mA01:21
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cehtehheh .. source?01:21
jacekowskimy own measurments01:21
cehteh1A on a phone battery is quite much anyways01:22
jacekowskiit's not01:22
jacekowskiN900 pulls like 2A peak01:22
cehtehif you pull 100mA vs 250mA then you wont see much difference01:22
cehtehpeak yes .. for short times01:22
cehtehnot for 1hr :)01:23
jacekowski1A when playing games01:23
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jacekowskiif you use mobile hot spot01:23
cehtehanyways .. i am about comparing batteries with each other ..01:23
jacekowskieverything is getting warm01:23
jacekowskiand it discharges my battery in like 40-50 minutes01:23
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jacekowskiwhich is about right for almost 2A01:24
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lolcatI think I will order three scud batteries with 1510mAh01:24
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Venemoezisto, well, I haven't tried01:26
Venemoezisto, but, since you don't have xmms2 on your N900, you probably won't be able to use it01:26
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villagera 50% power loss at 1A sounds like the battery has an internal resistance of 3-4 ohms...01:38
jacekowskitry that on used battery01:39
jacekowskinot fresh one01:39
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ShadowJK3-4 ohms sounds excessive01:47
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ShadowJKBL-5J should be closer to .101:47
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jacekowskifresh one01:57
jacekowskiuse it for couple months and it will be around 101:58
SpeedEvilThe modem 'hard' powers off at around 3.2V IIRC01:58
SpeedEvilIt needs to be able to draw nearly 2A and stay above this.01:59
SpeedEvilTo supply pulses.01:59
DocScrutinizerhey, still with batteries?01:59
ShadowJKhm, mine stops working at around 3v01:59
SpeedEvilShadowJK: yeah - around - I'm unsure of exact.01:59
* ShadowJK doesn't have any couple months old batteries anymore02:00
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ShadowJKbut I'm pretty sure my 11 month one was <1 ohm02:01
ShadowJKthe mugen2400 was disturbingly high internal resistance :/02:01
ShadowJKafter 50 cycles or so02:02
DocScrutinizeranyway, 3-4Ohm, 2A, in my book that's 8V drop02:02
DocScrutinizersee how silly that looks?02:03
naeon an n900 can I disable the long presses entering the alternate symbol?02:03
* ShadowJK only has 50 cycles on this BL-5J02:03
ShadowJKand 3 reboots on this N900 :P02:03
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ShadowJKbme on N800 used a battery model with .16 ohm resistance, on N810 that parameter was .18002:06
ShadowJKin both cases my original batteries for them developed much higher resistance than that and became pregnant..02:06
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DocScrutinizernae: yes02:08
DocScrutinizersome gconf setting02:09
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DocScrutinizercehteh: you know you get best results on least effort with script?02:11
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DocScrutinizerjust make sure to change RS=30 to RS=22 whenever you get this script somewhere02:13
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DocScrutinizerShadowJK: sounds about right - it mustn't be much more than 200mR for modem to work correctly02:15
* ShadowJK uses RS=2102:15
DocScrutinizeron too high a impedance of battery you get those mysterious GSM connectivity drops02:16
Jadewould anyone be interested in buying a n900 with an usb port that came off?02:17
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DocScrutinizersure. 20 bucks02:17
DocScrutinizermeh, 3002:18
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Jade50 + shipping02:19
DocScrutinizer$ or eur?02:19
DocScrutinizerGBP?? :-o02:19
ShadowJKon n900 you get the pin code prompt after cellmo undervoltage reboot02:19
naeDocScrutinizer: thanks for the link02:19
DocScrutinizerShadowJK: brownouts on TX spikes won't trigger POR02:20
DocScrutinizerjust ruin the TX parameters, so the BTS will barf up02:21
ShadowJKhey is there usb pads below the battery?02:21
* DocScrutinizer stares at his bare board02:21
DocScrutinizerumm, shipping from US is too expensive02:21
Jadei live in canada02:21
Jadewhere do you live02:21
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DocScrutinizerI'd actually be willing to pay $50, but the hassle with sending and customs and all is too much02:24
Jadei could get it mailed for maybe $10-2002:25
Jadeusing regular mail02:25
Jadei mailed stuff to europe before02:25
DocScrutinizer60$ incl postage, on your risk, payment when it arrives, via paypal02:26
DocScrutinizersorry, can't go better02:27
DocScrutinizerI won't run away with it, I have some IRC channels to mamage ;-P02:29
DocScrutinizermanage even02:29
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DocScrutinizerhow many coremelts? I missed the news for 3 hours02:32
ds3marshmellows glowing in the dark yet? ;)02:33
DocScrutinizerI got my fair share of atomic waste on my keyring02:34
* n900evil sings 'Just one coremelto'02:34
BCMMoh my02:35
BCMMthey're pouring seawater into two cores now02:35
BCMMand "considering using seawater on a third"02:35
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DocScrutinizercool, hope they got a plug to pull and drain the second one when the first goes BOOOOOOOOOOOOM when 70 tons of 2000°C whiteglowing molten gue hit the seawater02:36
BCMMpumping large amounts of water in means that they've now accepted that it's all going to come back out as radioactive steam, right?02:36
ds3fill it with lead02:37
BCMMand since at least one core is almost certainly disintegrating, that's proper radioactive steam, not boring nitrogen from neutron-activated water02:37
ds3lead shot02:37
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DocScrutinizerlead shot doesn't help at all02:37
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ds3why not? lead show block the neutrons02:38
ds3and since it is hot, it'll melt and encase the rods02:38
BCMMwhat's the specific latent heat of fusion of lead like?02:38
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ds3not as nice as water I am sure02:38
BCMMvery little is02:38
BCMMalso, they probably don't have piles of lead to hand02:38
ds3but I suspect it will absorb more neutrons02:38
BCMMthey don't even have fresh water02:38
ds3raid the armory, use bullets (have the solders take out the power/brass first)02:39
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DocScrutinizerds3: aiui that's what the boratic acid is meant for02:39
BCMMpumping seawater into the reactor is an act of desperation in the first place02:39
ds3DocScrutinizer: yes but isn't lead suppose to be one of the decay products?02:39
BCMMit is really, REALLY annoying when people talk about "radioactivity" as if it is a substance02:40
BCMMsecond hydrogen explosion hasn't happened yet, but they still think it's going to happen02:41
DocScrutinizerit's even more stupid when they talk about radiation contamination all the time02:41
BCMMor "radiation leaking"02:41
DocScrutinizer10:1 on next explosion in <48h02:41
BCMMwhen they actually mean stuff that emits radiation has leaked02:41
BCMMi wish they'd say what exactly had leaked when they say things like that02:41
ds3isn't a radiation leak basically neutrons/alpha/beta/gamma flying out?02:41
DocScrutinizerBCMM: exactly02:42
BCMMi mean, the radioactive steam, per se, isn't a huge deal02:42
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DocScrutinizerpfff, radioactive H2O? so what?02:42
ds3what exactly is radioactive steam? heavy water steam?02:42
BCMMit shouldn't be that radioactive; just short-lived stuff formed by neutron activation of the water02:42
* DocScrutinizer yawns02:43
BCMMit shouldn't contain bits of the fuel rods02:43
BCMMbut if they've been feeding iodine to people exposed to it, that implies it does02:43
BCMMor that somebody doesn't know what iodine supplements are for02:43
SpeedEvilIt is only 'clean' if the fuel rods are intact.02:44
ds3Iodine could have vaporized02:44
ds3doesn't that stuff sublimes?02:44
DocScrutinizerseawater OTOH is full of 'nice' minerals02:44
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SpeedEvilBCMM: Or if there is the possibility of leaks - you want people to have iodine beforehand.02:44
BCMMthat's sorta my point, if there is iodine in it, the rods are disintegrating02:44
DocScrutinizerall sure signs of a coremelt02:45
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BCMMi don't know how you make radioisotopes of caesium02:46
SpeedEvilThere will presumably nominally be some diffusion out of the rods.02:46
DocScrutinizeralso hydrogen explosions, as H2O desintegrates into hydrogen and O2 at some 1000s of °C02:46
DocScrutinizerwhich of course means the rods are gue02:46
BCMMbut radioiodine tends to come from uranium02:46
BCMMand definitely not from water02:46
BCMMyeah, the rods are goo02:47
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pupnikit would be ironic if the wind blew the fallout over the USA02:47
DocScrutinizererr did I say caesium?02:47
BCMMthe pacific is bigger than it looks02:47
pupnik'oops! so sorry!'02:47
BCMMDocScrutinizer: yeah, but so did the news02:47
SpeedEvilI would be surprised if the rods remain completely gastight under conditions of neutron activation, and elevated temperature. In normal use, I'd expect the primary coolant loop to have a fair amount of contamination from activated gasses02:47
DocScrutinizerI'm dizzy02:48
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BCMMif the rods are not intact, this seawater is basically washing over the nuclear fuel, right?02:48
BCMM(i know the principles, but not how the plant is actually put together)02:48
BCMMand this stuff is boiling off all the time... i wonder how much contamination the process of avoiding a full meltdown is producing02:49
DocScrutinizerds3: they should throw in natrium or a similar metal02:49
cehtehdo they feed it into the core? .. or just into the containment? iirc there was no information about02:49
pupnikdon't we have funky satellites that can take snapshots of radiation?02:49
DocScrutinizerpreferrably sth that doesn't incinerate02:49
pupnikwhy doesn't Google *do* something!02:50
cehtehgoogle earth live!02:50
DocScrutinizerpupnik: nope, sats can't see radiation02:50
ds3sure they can, but they might not be pointed at the planet02:51
DocScrutinizerat least not that one on earth surface02:51
ds3the gamma ray observatory02:51
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cehtehwhen voyager 1 picks up neutron emission from earth we should be considerably scared :)02:51
BCMMon the bright side, Onagawa appears to be intact... that's the one that caught fire, followed by elevated radiation readings02:52
BCMMapparently said readings were just contamination from Fukushima I02:52
cehtehthey say a lot these days ...02:52
* cehteh thinks it will take some months or even years to find about the whole truth02:53
BCMMcehteh: i'm pretty sure the sun would swamp that signal02:53
cehteh(which might be not that spectacular when we are lucky)02:54
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cehtehbut remember three miles island .. it took years before they realized that the core melt down02:54
cehtehprolly the now know better, but there is a lot to investigate what really happend still02:54
pupniklet's send the 9/11 commission to investigate02:55
ds3even if it did melt, isn't there less stuff in there then both of the A bombs?02:58
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cehtehhaha its all a evil plot of Osama Bin Laden!02:59
cehtehds3: you cant compare an atomic plant with atomic bombs02:59
DocScrutinizerit's common practice worldwide, and esp in nuke powerplant dependant Japan, for gvmt to only semi-admit facts that aren't possible to deny anymore02:59
cehtehthe plant may contain more mass .. more dirty but not critical since less enriched03:00
DocScrutinizerds3: less stuff??? that's TONs!03:00
cehtehand more fission byproducts and other crap03:00
BCMMDocScrutinizer: such as the possibility that the cores might be starting to disintegrate, after decay products obviously originating from the fuel have already been detected and people are already being dosed with iodine03:01
ds3just saying, it has happened before03:01
BCMM^such as admitting the03:01
DocScrutinizerds3: and due to the fact Fukushima rods were used and old, the percentage of isotopes like iodne etc is probably 20 times higer / kg than in Chernobyl03:02
cehtehBCMM: yes .. and the hydrogen explosion meant that hydrogen was produced which isnt at all good03:02
cehtehmeans the fuel-rods detoriating which is a good sign for meltdown03:02
ds3DocScrutinizer: all in all, the half life of iodine is short enough that it isn't that horrible03:02
ds3take plenty of KI til it all breaks down03:03
cehtehthere is plutonium in block 303:03
cehtehif that gets released then they have a really big problem03:03
DocScrutinizerwell, the Pu spilled all across on Nagasaki was for sure worse03:04
BCMM has maps showing areas of evacuation03:04
BCMMbut they don't seem to have a meaningful legend03:04
BCMMit does at least confirm that fukushima II has it's own evacuation zone03:05
DocScrutinizerit has, since yesterday03:05
DocScrutinizerwell, make that now-30h03:06
DocScrutinizerabout as long as I'm posting here about ~5 coremelts pending03:06
DocScrutinizerfor all info available that'S the minimum of blasts to happen if they don't find a better strategy03:07
DocScrutinizerrobability for a 6th one high03:08
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DocScrutinizerif only one of 6 gets a 'proper' core meltdown with china syndrome, they are on the lucky side03:09
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BCMMi take it "china syndrome" refers to the melt burning through the floor and getting into the groundwater?03:11
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pupniki predict japan's next nuclear reactors get built differently03:13
DocScrutinizerprobably bonbing it to pieces would be the better alternative03:13
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: You're missing something.03:14
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SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: As time after shutdown increases, decay heat decreases.03:14
DocScrutinizeryeah, in 12 moths it's only 5MW instead of 1003:14
SpeedEvilAt some point, decay heat will be passively coolable. I don't know when that point is of course.03:15
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SpeedEvilI vaguely recall 10% being stated as decay heat output an hour after SCRAM.03:15
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SpeedEvilSo ~50MW03:15
BCMMDocScrutinizer: but that also guarantees a complete release into the environment03:15
DocScrutinizerI didn't completely wrap my head around it, but I think I heard it's the decay products that continue to "tick" even when subcritical03:15
DocScrutinizerthat's why a reactor doesn't stop the very moment you pull the moderator rods out03:16
DocScrutinizeror in, depending on build03:17
BCMMit's all unstable atom; they decay no matter what you do to them03:17
BCMMi mean, move them far far away from any other unstable nuclei and they'll still spontaneously decay03:17
SpeedEvilWhen normally operating, the chain reaction neutron cause massive generation of unstable radioisotopes with decay times from picoseconds to years.03:17
BCMMyou just won't get any chain reactions where a fast neutron from one decay triggers another one03:18
DocScrutinizerswapped fuel rods need to chill for iirc 2 years next to reactor in a pool, prior to shipping them anywhere03:18
SpeedEvilThese decay over time when you turnthe reactor off, as there are 'no' neutrons.03:18
SpeedEvilBut you've got a whole heap of exponential curves piled on top of each other.03:19
DocScrutinizeryes exactly03:19
BCMMit's possible to have a perfectly safe (from blowing up or doing anything surprising) lump of plutonium that just sits there and is warm to the touch03:19
SpeedEvilIt starts at the nominal power, and then decays from there.03:19
BCMM(allegedly, this was verified in the Manhattan project. by actually touching it.)03:19
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: and decay of one isotop creates another one :-P03:20
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Decay chains, yes, it's more complex than a simple exponential due to this.03:20
DocScrutinizerthat's my point03:21
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BCMMthe chain-reaction itself is somewhat self-sustaining03:21
DocScrutinizeranyway, even a shutdown reactor needs cooling for months, if not years. Or you see core meltdown03:22
SpeedEvilTrue - of course - but cooling may be passive too.03:22
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BCMMAFAIK, since inserting the control rods doesn't come close to totally isolating each U atom from each other U atom, the rate of fission tails off quite gradually03:23
SpeedEvilI'd be surprised if it was engineered to require passive cooling after shut off for a month, for example.03:23
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: sure - if the heatsink is of enormeous size ;-P03:23
BCMMit puts it in a state where it's basically self-limiting and each neutron is causing an average of less than one other neutron to be emitted03:23
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BCMMbut it takes a long time to reach equilibrium03:23
DocScrutinizerand you put in enough heat conducting paste03:24
BCMMand the challenge is keeping it cool while that happens03:24
BCMMcause obviously if everything melts the control rods become kinda academic03:24
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DocScrutinizerBCMM: nope, all those processes happen at speed of light03:25
DocScrutinizerI.E. in zero time03:25
BCMMneutrons can not travel at the speed of light...03:25
DocScrutinizerthe difference is negligible03:26
BCMM(and gamma rays cannot trigger decay)03:26
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DocScrutinizerif it would take time to stop the process, it also would take time to start it -> nukes impossible03:26
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Wrong.03:26
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: thermal electrons are _verry_ far from the speed of light03:26
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SpeedEvilA few tens or hundreds of meters/second IIRC03:27
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: not like taking weeks to settle03:27
DocScrutinizernot even milliseconds03:27
DocScrutinizerbtw fission is rather unrelated to electrons03:28
BCMMwhere the thermal electrons come into things?03:28
BCMMthe term is not interchangeable with "beta particle"03:28
BCMM(or "neutron" for that matter)03:29
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DocScrutinizerand beta particles also are unrelated to chain reaction buildup03:29
kpomanok guys I got gingerbread working, and with overclocking it is excellent03:29
kpomanlot of games03:29
DocScrutinizerneutrons that's it03:29
kpomanvery smooth03:29
kpomanvery good battery life03:29
kpomanquite impressive in fact03:29
DocScrutinizerbeta particles - what a nonsense03:30
DocScrutinizerbeta quants maybe03:30
DocScrutinizeran electron is a particle?03:30
SpeedEvil7% of reactor output is decay heat (according to docs I found), and typically it takes a day to decrease to 1% of nominal.03:30
cehtehstrange .. with 2.6.38* my rxvt behaves very freaky ...03:31
BCMMok, so the chain reaction does not take much time to shut off03:31 pager 25603:31
DocScrutinizerbut the isotopes do03:31
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cehtehand xterm too wtf03:32
DocScrutinizeras lots of them have halflife of minutes, hours, days03:32
DocScrutinizerwithout chain reaction03:32
SpeedEvilSee also teh graph on page 25303:32
BCMMso the slow shut-off is caused by short half-life neutron emitters triggering chain reactions?03:33
DocScrutinizeryeah, something along that line03:34
SpeedEvilThe source above gives neutron-based thermal generation hitting 1% at about 40s for the reactor type.03:34
DocScrutinizermy TV nukes expert gave power emission of a shutdown core of the Fukujima type as 10MW, for several weeks to months03:35
DocScrutinizerwhich is kinda of in line with what I know about handling of used fuel rods03:37
DocScrutinizerbuzzword Abklingbecken, Castor03:37
SpeedEvilI can't find a nice soruce on BWRr03:37
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pupnik some nuclear reactor background for a video i helped did back in 97..  Good Nukes-- "Almost Good Enough": Pt. I Reactor Components03:50
pupnikoveruse of music by pupnik03:50
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GeneralAntillesGet your popcorn!
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kthomaswait,  wait,  it's working...04:10
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chxGeneralAntilles: They're rearranging deck chairs on The Titanic.04:15
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cehtehchx: its important to have a first-row seat on the sinking!04:21
cehtehimagine you cant see the iceberg04:21
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GeneralAntilleschx: something like that, yeah. . . .04:29
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chxwhat happened to "real men ship" ?04:32
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zerojayThe ship's been going down for years, just that most of you haven't realized it.04:33
Tsuyohey, i wanted to flash my n900 because it doesnt start anymore. I just see the Nokia screen, and then it turns off. After plugging my N900 into my pc and running the flasher, it stays on "Suitable USB device not found, waiting." Also, the phone reboots every 10 seconds. Does someone have an Idea?04:33
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TsuyoI'm on Windows 7 x86. Using arch' doesn't work too04:34
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zerojayAnd, I don't know about anyone else, but Arjan's just... such an ass.04:34
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GeneralAntillesHe's nice in person.04:37
GeneralAntillesProbably a bit frustrated, though.04:37
GeneralAntilleszerojay: yeah, but what's my alternative?04:37
GeneralAntillesAndroid aint it. :)04:37
zerojayWith that guy around, even WinMo is an option.04:38
zerojayHe's really good at driving passionate people away.04:38
GeneralAntillesIntel doesn't know how to deal with a community of individuals.04:40
GeneralAntillesThat's the strength Nokia (sort of) brought to the table.04:40
GeneralAntillesBut they've been tucked away with Harmattan.04:40
ShadowJKarjan is more used to dealing with large group of kernel hackers I think :)04:43
zerojayI don't think Arjan's used to dealing with anyone but himself.04:44
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orlokfuck microsoft and fuck nokia.04:50
gavinwell put04:51
orlokmy N900's camera gives operation failed when i open the slider.. any suggestions?04:51
orlokforum threads indicate it needs a fsck?04:52
orloknah, done that04:52
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TsuyoPlease, guys, any help here? enable-rd-mode doesn't help too04:53
Tsuyo: /04:53
GeneralAntillesTsuyo: did you hold down the U key while inserting the battery with USB plugged in?04:54
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nox- :(04:55
TsuyoGeneralAntilles: I tried it now, and doesn't change anything04:55
GeneralAntillesTsuyo: so, no USB icon in the corner on the N900?04:55
GeneralAntillesAnd you're sure the USB cable isn't at fault?04:55
TsuyoWell, there is one. I don't flash for my first time :p04:56
TsuyoMy brother had the nice idea to dpkg -r -a04:56
doc|homenox-: it's not major. Similar to explosion the other day. Data coming from the reactors says so far it shouldn't be a big problem.04:56
GeneralAntillesSo, the N900 is going into flashing mode, but the flasher isn't seeing it?04:56
TsuyoIt finds the phone04:56
Tsuyobut it freezes at:04:56
TsuyoSuitable USB device not found ..04:56
TsuyoThe phone keeps rebooting04:56
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Tsuyoi hear the vibrate ever ~10 secs04:57
lcukflat battery?04:57
orlokhmm.. deleted kernel maybe?04:57
GeneralAntillesYeah, battery might be low.04:57
GeneralAntillesNothing but NOLO is involved in flashing.04:58
GeneralAntillesSo if it's power cycling, it's likely a low battery.04:58
TsuyoBattery is on ~ 85%04:58
lcukhow do you know?04:58
lcukif you are not getting into os04:58
TsuyoI had it on the power cable04:58
Tsuyowhen my brother killed my phone04:58
Tsuyoand it was on arround 90%, wich would be ~85 now04:58
lcukpesky brothers04:58
lcukjusta thought04:59
* lcuk had power cycling doofer earlier today04:59
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lcukI had to look at my n900 sternly before it would bootup04:59
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TsuyoWell, i power it up over the night. I hope i get it to work today. Sending my phone back to nokia would suck much different things.05:01
lcuk indeed, when you try it in the morning05:02
lcukperhaps take out battery, plug in usb, start flasher, then when it says device not found, pop the battery in05:02
* lcuk used this method for every flashing on every device in last couple of years05:03
Tsuyowith your method i get this response:
lcukTsuyo, my old laptop used to do that randomly, it was something in the kernel etc - i had to reboot laptop to fix that cos I am not a kernel bod05:05
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Tsuyoi've rebooted my pc for the second time now : /05:05
* lcuk goes to sleep again anyway05:05
lcukTsuyo, try an alternative machine05:06
lcukbut that error is more host than n900 i believe05:06
ShadowJKand different usb port, and don't use hubs05:06
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lcukTsuyo, are your usb cables using clockwise twisting, or anticlockwise?05:07
Tsuyoyeah, i'm going to sleep too. Thanks for your help :), i'll abuse mother's pc after mornin'05:07
TsuyoHuh :D ?05:08
Tsuyoi thought usb would be a standard05:08
lcukwell you have to get the right kind of cable depending on which hemisphere you are on05:08
lcukthe electrons go the wrong way if you import :'(05:08
Tsuyowat :D05:09
orloklcuk: heh.. thats almost funny, as you said that while i was looking at stuff in #astronomy :)05:09
lcukgnite fellas \o05:09
orloklcuk: my telescope tripod came with a scope configured for the wrong hemisphere05:09
Tsuyogood night, too :)05:09
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* orlok ssh's into his phone to back everything up05:48
orlokAhh, a phone that doesnt drive me nuts...05:49
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infoboti guess flashing is
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DocScrutinizerhmm, 2nd reactor gone pooof06:59
orlokjust hydrogen containment06:59
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DocScrutinizersure, what else?06:59
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chxsounds like the containment vessels are intact07:12
ds3on topic question - does python offer bluetooth bindings?07:15
orlokpretty sure it does07:16
ds3i.e. ability to setup a rfcomm connection07:16
chxin general, does python offer X answer is yes :D07:16
orlokimport soul07:16
orlokpython makes me look like i know how to programm07:16
ds3python seems to be the easiest way to get a graphically app on the N90007:16
orlokds3: with what?07:16
* orlok uses pygame and wxwidgets on desktops07:16
orlokspeaking of which07:16
ds3I want to poke at the GPS, Bluetooth, and camera07:16
orloki need to get back to the hardware for it07:16
ds3all of which request mucking with X or wrapped X calls (aka libs like gtk/qt/etc)07:16
orlokmaking arduino controlled telescope.. PC side will be python07:16
ds3python seems to avoid that07:16
ds3okay, so the N900 side seems to be covered07:16
ds3trying to figure out what it would take to build a bluetooth watch as a N900 companion07:16
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doc|homeall reactors at plant 1 have been shut down07:17
ds3shutdown but not cooled down yet, right?07:17
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doc|homeds3: some, yes07:21
doc|homeds3: that takes days07:21
doc|homebut that's going ahead now07:21
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DocScrutinizerdoc|home: I don't see anything going ahead there, except expected hydrogen explosions after 15-20h from cooling failure, and the final coremelt after 30-45h, which will result in another much huger explosion or china syndrome07:59
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doc|homeDocScrutinizer: why do you expect failure?07:59
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DocScrutinizerfaulure is a fact, that happened quite some time ago07:59
DocScrutinizerbecause of both generators and power grid are damaged07:59
doc|homefailure of the systems they had in place, yeah, but they've been working on alternatives07:59
DocScrutinizerthese aren't alternatives, that's desperate last efforts that are rather unlikely to help a lot08:00
doc|home, but they've been working on alternatives08:00
doc|homefine, desperate alternatives :)08:00
doc|homeok, looks like it is happening08:01
doc|homepardon my french08:01
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DocScrutinizerplus wind is changing, tomorrow it might hit Tokyo08:06
doc|homewest coast of north america otherwise08:07
doc|homenot sure how bad that'd be08:07
DocScrutinizerand for all I know there are another 3 to 4 blocks pending which also have no more cooling08:07
doc|home4 of them have been previously shut down08:07
DocScrutinizerall have been shut down, but that doesn't help as you MUST cool a reactor for several weeks after shutdown08:08
DocScrutinizerblock1 and 3 also were shutdown, and still blew up08:09
doc|homewill try to get the link08:09
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DocScrutinizerwhy? I don't see any news there08:10
doc|homeone sec08:10
DocScrutinizerand it's a japanese website - seems those have the most censored info08:10
doc|homegetting hit pretty hard right now though08:11
doc|homewill pastebin contents08:11
DocScrutinizermeh, I doubt there's anything that I haven't heard yet. I even doubt there's much truth at all on that page - it as well has a .jp TLD08:12
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doc|homethat's their own page08:12
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doc|homeso, 3 of the 6 should be ok, two worrying, one ok but possibly a problem08:13
doc|homeif something changes08:13
orlokhmm lot of crimping and soldering08:14
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: if you have more info, I'm all ears08:14
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DocScrutinizerwell, everybody got more info than that BS they publish on their own official website08:15
doc|homeDocScrutinizer: like?08:16
doc|homehmm, that one about the partial core meltdown was from 2 days ago08:17
DocScrutinizerlike explosion on block3, some 2h or 3h ago, more severe than that of block1, 4 workers injured, 7 *missing* - allegedly it's been a planned controlled explosion (that's what you will read on their website in 10h)08:17
DocScrutinizercaesium137 found 100km from Fukushima08:18
doc|homethat's not new info, and that explosion's on the front page of
doc|homeok, the 100km is new08:19
doc|homewhere did you hear that?08:19
DocScrutinizerwhich explosion=08:19
doc|homeon block 308:19
RST38hMoo all08:19
RST38hSoo, what is new and exciting? Japan again?08:20
DocScrutinizerhonestly, I'm too tired to argue with you about fsckng japanese info policy08:21
doc|homei'm not arguing...08:21
doc|homewere you?08:21
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RST38hDoc vs doc08:31
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doc|homenot on my part08:32
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orlokHmm... I'm getting "operating not supported" when i open the camera cover on my N90008:34
DocScrutinizerorlok: sometimes this is caused by a broken filesystem where camerat would store pictures08:36
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DocScrutinizeralso fcam drivers need reinstallation after any kernel update or change08:37
DocScrutinizerof course only if fcam or any other alternative camera app got installed08:38
JakDaRippadoes the nokia n900 work with boost mobile?08:45
chxi'd be surprised08:46
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chxisnt boost one of the last using  iDEN ?08:47
chxJakDaRippa: CDMA / iDEN.08:48
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Termanagood morning09:48
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gomiamsyn 5757809:57
pupnik_nobody like my juok09:58
mecepupnik_, que?10:00
pupnik_moment mece10:01
pupnik_ < Aleister93> i saw a headline, "Japan asks US Navy for help"10:01
pupnik_< pupnik> US navy answers japan: "Whom do you want us to bomb?"10:02
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pupnik18,000 ppl missing in rikuzentaka, a town of 24,000, 6,000 accounted for10:17
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pupnik< pupnik> the difference between japan and haiti is japanese and haitians11:08
RST38hpupnik: Better question: What is the difference between Haiti and Dominican Republic?11:09
RST38hBut it is a much, MUCH better question ;)11:10
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pupniki didn't ask a question RST38h, i made an observation.11:14
pupnikdo you have an observation to make about haiti vs dominican rep?11:14
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RST38hpupnik: Yea. It appears to be directly linked to yours ;)11:15
pupnikdominican republic is on the same island, i believe11:16
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crashanddiexnt14, you pinged me?11:36
crashanddiepupnik & RST38h discover the world as offered to them by the conglomeration of corporate news networks...11:37
mecehehhe ipad2 jailbreaked. that was fast :D11:37
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chem|st mmh...11:54
chem|stanyone experienced problems with sip lately?11:54
chem|stI still have no clue about debugging telepathy...11:55
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pupnikchem|st: sorry i have avoided that since 200211:58
chem|stpupnik: sip?11:59
chem|sta reboot did it (or the cssu upgrade) but I'd like to know what is hogging that sofia bitch12:00
pupnikoh sip sorry12:00
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FIQ|n900Hi, isn't mobilehotspot supposed to depend on kernel-power?12:06
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pupniki forgot12:07
FIQ|n900Because it fails to initiate ("DEBUG: Command output: insmod: can't read '/lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1/nf_conntrack.ko': No such file or directory"), and kernel-power seems not installed. Hoewer, it conflicts with mobilehotspot.12:07
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FIQ|n900So i can't install it anyway12:07
FIQ|n900Oh, in extras-devel12:08
lcukFIQ|n900, extras has 0.3.4 which might have different deps,
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pupnikFIQ|n900: report your results pls12:11
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pupnik  screencast desktop opengl - to n900?12:39
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RST38hmoo wazd12:44
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wazdRST38h: o/13:13
wazdhi all13:13
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FIQ|n900<pupnik> FIQ|n900: report your results pls13:18
FIQ|n900I activated extras-devel, then installed kernel-power. Rebooted, installed mobilehotspot. It failed to work. But after one more reboot it seems to work (the UI looks like so, and no errors in the terminal. Hoewer, I can't test if it actually works atm.13:20
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FIQ|n900will test if it worked when at home13:22
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shanttuHi guys. Why omap2_mc psi takes 100% cpu after heavy load? It doesn't end after reboot. Is it ok to kill on terminal?13:34
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shanttuSorry it doesn't end _until_ i reboot13:34
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dashavooHappy Monday everyone (I'm not sure how I feel about it myself)14:14
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* ruskie throws some spiky, sharp things at dashavoo 14:15
merlin1991Mondays suck (because they start with a maths lecture for me)14:15
dashavooruskie: ouch =(14:16
* merlin1991 copycats ruskie14:16
ruskieMondays suck. No qualifier needed.14:16
dashavooI had sharp things thrown at me, and now I have just remembered that I didn't bring lunch with me to work this morning14:17
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ruskieI hate when I forget my lunch @home14:19
dashavooI had a nasty surprise this morning, too.14:20
dashavooI had set the clock wrong on my coffee machine, so it wasn't made when I stumbled into the kitchen this morning14:20
dashavooThat one was easily sorted though14:20
dashavooIt was worse the time that I forgot to put coffee in, and got up to a pot of hot water14:21
ruskiegood thing I don't drink/consume coffee or caffinated stuff14:21
dashavooruskie: I didn't used to. I've always liked coffee, but before I started working here I drank it in moderation, just now and then. Now I have several cups a day.14:22
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ruskiedashavoo, any particular reason?14:22
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dashavooruskie: because there is a pot of coffee brewed at coffee break, and I'm not good at resisting things that are there, and in the morning I am not very coordinated or organised, so it is easier to set my coffee machine to make me a coffee than it is to make myself something else to drink when I get up14:24
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ruskiereplace coffee with a coffee substitute...14:24
ruskiethat requires the same cooking process14:24
dashavooUsually if I try to do something first thing in the morning, I end up breaking things14:25
keriocrystal meth14:25
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dashavooI have considered putting a small amount of chilli powder in with my morning coffee, just as an experiment14:25
dashavooI am a bit of a heat-freak... I love chilli14:25
kerioit worked for erdös14:25
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dashavooI noticed somewhere that the power kernel has mesh networking support... does anything/anyone actually use it?14:37
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TsuyoHey, i was here already ~ 7 hours ago. My phone always reboots after my brother killed my phone with "dpkg -r -a". If i want to put my phone on usb, it reboots/vibrates every 10 secs. Even loading the battery doesnt work, because it restarts every time14:42
TsuyoDoes someone have an idea?14:42
TsuyoI have the N90014:42
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ruskiewth is dpkg -r -a ?14:43
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ruskie <-- loath14:46
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TsuyoIt removes every package on the phone14:46
Tsuyoeven the kernel.14:46
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Tsuyomerlin1991: Doesn't work. The phone reboots14:47
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merlin1991Tsuyo even if you hold u when booting and have usb connected?14:47
TsuyoI don't flash for my first time and have some experience. that's why i'm asking here :p14:48
merlin1991Well normally when people ask about flashing they are first timers :)14:49
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TsuyoI like to read first, before i ask dumb questions :p14:51
TsuyoWell, but the 'net says nothing about this desease14:51
MohammadAGspeaking of diseases14:53
MohammadAGwhatever happened to H1N1?14:53
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ruskiewhat happend to all other disesases... became obscure for the panick media...14:54
orlokyeah, there are worse diseaes to worry about14:54
Tsuyoit was removed by the economy because no one wants to buy the vaccination14:55
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TsuyoBut that doesn't bring my phone back : /14:56
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jonwilSucks that your phone wont even boot into flash mode so you can reflash it :(15:07
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jonwilYou may have no choice but to take it to Nokia and get it fixed15:07
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kerioyou're lying15:14
pupnik  hahahaha15:19
RST38hpupnik: a real American!15:20
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pupnik"Tepco Simpson"
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* javispedro has found a funny xchat bug15:24
javispedroso there's this function that shows or hides certain widgets, which is called when you resize the window and gtk+s size allocations are calculated15:24
javispedrobut of course, hiding or showing widgets can cause gtk+s size allocations to be reallocated15:25
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javispedrowhich might cause xchat to again show and hide certain widgets, which causes gtk+ to recalculate sizes, which causes xchat to show/hide certain widgets...15:25
lcukjavispedro, that sort of problem used to occur on Windows too, where you have a frame with auto scrollbars, you calculate how much room you need, but it cuts into space needed by scrollbars so it needs adjusting again :P15:26
RST38hjavispedro: yea, well known crap15:26
RST38hStill occurs in Windows15:26
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* lcuk used many hearty swearwords on those issues15:27
javispedrofortunately, the workaround I found is to avoid certain window heights (multiples of a yet undetermined N I believe)15:28
javispedroand/or avoid using the channel switcher vertical tab bar altogether.15:29
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dashavooWhy is it that, despite having every email I have recieved since 2006, I can't find any proof of purchase for my N900? D=16:24
dashavooAnyone who bought one from the nokia shop know what the subject would have been?16:24
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dashavooof course, I am assuming they sent some sort of email acknowledgement16:25
jacekowskiit's not a proof of purchase16:25
Robot101dashavoo: I got the email acknowledgements from - but I think the actual invoice is sent with the device16:25
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SpeedEvilThank You For Your Purchase at Nokia UK Online Shop16:26
SpeedEvilFrom: <>16:26
dashavoojacekowski: the insurance people will possibly accept that, whereas they have said outright that my bankstatement won't do16:27
jacekowskidashavoo: you've lost it?16:27
SpeedEvildashavoo: you're in the UK?16:27
dashavoothanks everyone :), I'll search again for that ridiculously long email address later16:27
dashavooSpeedEvil: yes, UK16:27
SpeedEvildashavoo: Worst case, you can FOIA nokia shop.16:28
SpeedEvilWhich is a bit extreme, but...16:28
SpeedEvilErr - not FOIA16:28
SpeedEvilSubject access request under the data protection act.16:29
dashavoojacekowski: my screen is broken, and I (family member) used the box for something and disposed of the invoice16:29
dashavooSpeedEvil: thanks, if it comes to it, I will16:29
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jacekowskidashavoo: new screen may be cheaper than you excees16:34
dashavoojacekowski: the excess is only £2516:34
jacekowskiare you sure16:34
jacekowskiwho are you with?16:34
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dashavoojacekowski: I can't remember who the insurance is actually with, I got the insurance via one of my parents as they had an offer for free mobile insurance for 4 devices16:36
dashavooall of the paper work has been sent to their address, and I have been sending them details for them to send on16:36
jacekowskicheck if your excess is still 2516:36
jacekowskiit went up recently16:36
jacekowskiand n900 lcd is less than £5016:37
dashavooHmm. I'll check. If it is too high, then I'll just buy a new screen, but it is worth seeing first16:37
dashavoojacekowski: really? That is less than I thought it was.16:37
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jacekowskidigitizer is like £2016:37
jacekowskiwith free shipping16:38
SpeedEvilThat has come down!16:39
* mgedmin paid about £125 to have the cracked LCD on his N810 replaced at a local authorized Nokia repair shop a couple of years back...16:39
dashavooThat is awesome, thanks16:39
dashavooI'll bookmark that and possibly just forget about the insurance16:39
SpeedEvilThough the digitiser may need replaced too16:40
jacekowskimy has some holes in it16:40
jacekowskibut it's still working16:40
jacekowskiso i'm not bothered16:40
SpeedEvilAnd it is possible to screw up your device whn attempting repair.16:40
jacekowskias long as you adhere to basic esd precautions16:40
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SpeedEviljacekowski: The flex cable is very fragile, and the screws are tightened enough that you should really replace them.16:41
jacekowskii think you get new ones with that screen16:42
dashavooIt really is ironic that it wasn't until I reflashed in preparation for sending the phone for repair, that it started working at a decent speed16:42
crashanddieit's really ironic that someone who uses the term "ironic" doesn't know the definition of it.16:43
crashanddiedashavoo, are you, by any chance, a relative of Alanis Morissette?16:44
SpeedEvilof, or pertaining to iron.16:44
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NiQ1hi, anyone has some experience with kernel compiling for maemo?16:45
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dashavoocrashanddie: I understand the definition of crashanddie, and have had this argument many times before ;)16:47
orloksounds like a discarded name from hackers16:47
dashavooI'm not sure how that happened16:47
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BCMMRST38h: wow...16:58
BCMMfor a start, material from the fuel rods has entered the environment. this always means the plant loses.16:59
BCMMalso, using multiple redundant power supplies doesn't mean much when they can all be taken out at the same time16:59
BCMM"contains quite a lot of very short-lived (half-life measured in seconds) radioactive materials such as Nitrogen-16" - even the power company isn't claiming that anymore...17:01
BCMMhmm, i just realised i'm arguing with a Reg article...17:01
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ZogGVenemo, day17:04
ZogGhey every117:04
crashanddieorlok, I'll hack your IP and trace your VB script to get your webcam on Facebook...17:04
crashanddieorlok, so, d0nT m3ss w1th meh!17:05
Venemohey ZogG, what's up?17:05
Tsuyocome at me bro17:05
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kerioit's a trap!17:06
VenemoZogG, are you familiar with Gnome?17:06
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javispedroBCMM:what is wrong with TheReg? they publish the BOFH stories!17:07
ZogGVenemo, yeap17:07
ZogGVenemo, little bit17:07
ZogGi use it on laptop17:07
javispedroBCMM:(not to mention that they pretty much repeat the IAEA story...)17:07
dashavoough, I need to get back to working again... I wouldn't mind if this code wasn't so ugly17:08
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crashanddiedashavoo, pretty much the reason why I've been stalling all morning/afternoon.17:08
crashanddieSo, I feel for you.17:09
dashavoocrashanddie: thanks17:09
dashavooalways good to know I am not suffering alone17:09
RST38hjavispedro: I think he just hasn't got it17:09
dashavooah well, here I go17:09
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ZogGruskie, are you ready to test? Venemo has coded it =)17:58
rm_workJaffa: you around?17:58
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ZogGdamn timeouts18:02
Venemohey ZogG, I didn't code it. I was just helping you.18:02
ZogGi messed too much18:03
ZogGbut now i have a start =)18:03
VenemoI just organized your code in a suitable way :)18:03
ZogGVenemo how do i set the title?18:04
VenemoZogG, title of what?18:04
Venemodouble click the mainwindow.ui file, and on the list at the right side select the main window. then the window title should be at the properties window18:05
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ZogGyeah found it, just thought to do it with command =)18:07
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VenemoZogG, what you can do with the UI designer, don't do with code18:08
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ZogGVenemo, true18:18
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NiQ1hi, anyone has some experience with the n900 kernel?18:22
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pupniki entered some magic numbers to make it faster :D18:26
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DocScrutinizer(Fuckishima) the best one I've seen so far:
Robot101burn through concrete? that's not quite right19:17
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Robot101the concrete containment is entirely designed to catch the core if it melts19:18
Robot101it's the last line of defence19:18
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DocScrutinizeryeah, alas even concrete melts at <2000°C19:18
DocScrutinizergoogle for china syndrome19:19
ZogGruskie, =(19:19
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Robot101assuming it's uncooled. which it's not - hence the steam (and hydrogen)19:19
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ZogGVenemo, if i want to use several lines and different fonts, do i need to use 2 labels or Qt magic can do it with one?19:20
DocScrutinizerhow would you cool the concrete wehn a massive blob of 70 tons withglowing molten radioactive gue sits on it?19:20
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ZogGice cubes?19:21
DocScrutinizermight help if yu suck on them, at least for your mood19:22
Robot101well, they can tell from the material leaving the reactor that it's not got to that stage yet - and this is not primary uranium reaction at 1000sC, it's residual heat from the secondary reactions, at 100sC19:22
DocScrutinizereven japan gvmt is now admitting core melt in 3 reactors, I heard19:23
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DocScrutinizerpartial, but meh19:23
Robot101yeah, due to the tops of fuel rods being exposed19:23
Robot101hence the seawater19:23
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DocScrutinizeryeah, sea water is so much better than the originally present water of the reactor19:24
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DocScrutinizerseems they decided to fill in seawater, wait 1 day, release radioactive steam, rinse repeat19:25
DocScrutinizerfor the next 3 months19:25
DocScrutinizer*might* work19:25
DocScrutinizerI honestly doubt19:25
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Robot101well, they ran out of deionised water. and it shouldn't be months, the emergency shutdown worked already19:25
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BCMMeven if it works, that steam surely contains medium-long half-life stuff?19:26
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DocScrutinizerBS, there's no emergency shutdown for chill down, as clearly explained here in this chan ~18h ago, and also detailled in that article.19:26
BCMMi don't know which caesium is out19:27
MohammadAGthere is emergency shutdown19:27
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BCMMbut Cs-137 is a good candidate, being a common fission product19:27
MohammadAG"I'm your CPU, you obviously know more than I do, so I'm taking a rest *fries*"19:28
BCMMit has a 30-year half-life...19:28
DocScrutinizerwhich got triggered for ALL JP nuke plants 10s before the earthquake19:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: ^^^19:28
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BCMMso even if they "succeed" with the seawater, they're causing long-term contamination19:28
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DocScrutinizeryou know they have some 10-30s prewarn time on earthquakes, based on P-waves19:29
DocScrutinizerBCMM: sure19:29
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BCMMCs-137 is one of the major reasons there is still a zone around chernobyl19:29
DocScrutinizerthey are at severity 4.5 of 5 now, and try desparately to avoid 5+19:30
DocScrutinizer(that's my take on it, no facts)19:30
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, Japan never suffered cause of the quakes19:31
MohammadAGthe tsunami is what did all the damage19:31
DocScrutinizercore melt is going on in 3 blocks, cooling failed on 4 - that's semi-confirmed facts19:31
DocScrutinizernext block to go boom: #219:32
DocScrutinizeramazingly few info about fukushima-II19:32
BCMMthe most worrying bit is that the latest explosion was in the building housing the reactor with the plutonium19:33
DocScrutinizerjust the salt in the soup19:33
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ZogG_laptopi wonder are there any ussd codes or opion to get info on billing (i mean spent, minutes talked and so on)19:35
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SpeedEvil - the car of the future!19:36
SpeedEvil(plz vote, I want free car!) I thought goatse was a bit obvious.19:36
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SpeedEvilIn principle it's an interesting vehicle - it's just completely wacked from a style POV.19:39
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DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: depends on what your carrier supports19:39
javispedroI SCREAM!19:40
DocScrutinizerthose are *S*upplementary codes19:40
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fralswhat do i need to force rotation in applications?19:46
merlin1991cssu ;)19:47
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JakDaRippaanyone here using boost mobile on their nokia n900? i'm with tmobile now and thinking about switching and wanted some input.19:50
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wmarone__boost mobile is CDMA (using Sprint's network) and will not work with the N90019:52
JakDaRippadamn. there goes that idea19:52
JakDaRippaso i'm stuck with tmobile and at&t?19:53
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wmarone__or if you can find a GSM based carrier other than them19:54
* wmarone__ is on AT&T19:54
ds3what would cause fmms to crash with a trace back ? tail line in /tmp/fmms.log - ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '50:8080'19:54
JakDaRippawhat plan do you have? how's the service?19:54
wmarone__JakDaRippa: basic plan with 400 minutes and $15/mo "unlimited" data, and it works without issue19:55
JakDaRippawhat about text msg'ing?19:55
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wmarone__JakDaRippa: no plan, cheaper to just eat the $0.20 per text for as few as I get19:56
wmarone__still a ripoff ;)19:56
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wmarone__ds3: improperly parsing a URL (looks like it's choking on the port number tacked on to the last octet...)19:56
JakDaRippado they have something like 'friends and family' or 'myfaves'?19:57
ds3wmarone__: that's what I thought but further up fmms.fmms_config_dialog... shows it having the right port19:57
ds3it is as if there is an internal self inconsistancy19:57
wmarone__JakDaRippa: believe they do19:57
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wmarone__ds3: well, perhaps there's a flaw down in the proxy config, since that's what :8080 makes me think19:57
ds3let me see if it is still compiled python19:58
ds3cool .py files there now19:58
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DocScrutinizeranother good one:
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MohammadAGI wonder where I could get QGLWidget20:12
alteregoMohammadAG: how do you mean?20:13
alteregoYou instantiate it yourself :P20:13
MohammadAGalterego, the headers are missing20:13
alteregoQT += opengl20:13
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MohammadAGheh, thanks alterego20:16
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MohammadAGholy crap that's fast20:17
MohammadAGalterego, any disadvantages20:17
alteregoNot really.20:18
MohammadAGI remember you mentioned something when you were making the XBox remote app20:18
NiQ1hi, anyone can help with kernel issues?20:18
alteregoYeah, that uses a qglwidget20:18
MohammadAGyeah, but I remember something about anti-aliasing issues20:18
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infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.20:19
MohammadAGagainst our will lol20:19
BCMMjust one of the odd things about freenode, really20:19
alteregoHrm, there's some precision errors sometimes, which was because of my very complex widgets20:19
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alteregoBut I managed to fix those by making the images smaller.20:20
BCMMnewbies presumably think that it's rude to just ask, like in real life20:20
BCMMNiQ1: ask away!20:20
NiQ1typing :)20:20
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NiQ1trying to install a custom kernel. unforetunately it does not load and the n900 restarts. trying to debug. enabled framebuffer so i can see debug messages but unfortunately can't follow (too quick for me). any ideas how to log them somewhere?20:21
MohammadAGthis is awesome!20:21
BCMMMohammadAG: what is?20:21
ds3I have said it before and I'll say it again - google blows chunks20:21
MohammadAGif there's a kernel oops, it's logged to an mtdblock20:21
MohammadAGBCMM, openGL accelerated QML20:21
ds3search for fmms and it gives me a bazillion hits on MMS WTF20:21
E0xfirst result of google when i search for fmms : [Announce] fMMS for N900 - - Talk20:22
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BCMMcan QML use normal-looking qt widgets?20:22
ZogGMohammadAG, the open media player look neat20:22
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alteregoNiQ1: if you put your N900 in R&D mode it wont reset on fatals20:22
NiQ1doesn't seem like a kernel oops - one of the things i have noticed is that the system goes into act_dead state and then an unidentified process touches /tmp/shutdown and the machine halts.20:23
ZogGbut video quality...20:23
alteregoBCMM: no, though Qt Components is working towards that goal20:23
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ds3E0x: I was looking for fmms proxy settings and it dumps me into matches for MMS20:23
ds3I am convinced something in recent veresions broq.20:24
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shanttuHi. Asked this earlier without response. Why omap2_mc psi takes 100% cpu after heavy load? Process does not end until I reboot. Is it ok to kill?20:25
NiQ1will try rnd mode w/ no lifeguard reset20:26
BCMMhmm ogl accelerated QML is going to make KDE's plasma really, really fast...20:26
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alteregoIt makes my MeeGo QML dialer really slick ;)20:27
NiQ1doesn't work... will appreciate any other idea.20:28
alteregoHopefully as I come to the end of this contract I'llhave earned enough cash to dedicate a couple of weeks to a month on MeeGo and Maemo dev20:28
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NiQ1is there any way to completely halt the system when it attempts to shut down?20:30
ruskietake out the battery?20:31
NiQ1halt = keep whatever is on the screen still on the screen :)20:31
ruskieerm... this isn't enik20:31
ruskieerm eink20:31
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SpeedEvilHehe. Found someone confused linking people to IKEA, not IAEA20:33
NiQ1or alternatively, how can i tell which process called the shutdown?20:33
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meceffs not entirely simple to replace ff3.6 with 4.020:34
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lcukNiQ1, follow the startup20:34
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meceogl qml really doesn't work properly on my n900 for some reason.20:35
NiQ1that's the whole issue, it's too quick and i can't read it before the system shuts down20:35
rzrdoes E7 worth n900 ?20:35
mecerzr, ??20:36
mecerzr, N900 < E7, if that's what you're asking.20:36
mecerzr, N900 > E7, duh20:36
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rzri got a E7 to swap for a N900 :)20:36
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mecerzr, I guess it depends on what you do. E7 is much more expensive. You should get 2 N900's for one E720:37
rzrE7 is not for QT hacking20:37
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rzrbut it will lack the unix underlayer20:38
rzrfor me20:38
rzr(19:37:51) rzr: E7 is not for QT hacking20:38
rzrjust ran the update20:39
rzrand he suggest me to install msn20:39
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mecerzr, are you talking about an E7 now?20:39
rzri am typing on left hand on the kb , the e7 is in my right one :)20:40
rzrn810 is on my right20:40
rzrand e61 on the left20:40
rzri see this beast is 495EUR
mecerzr, what was the question again??20:42
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rzr(19:39:25) mece: rzr, are you talking about an E7 now?20:44
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mecerzr, well you started with "rzr: does E7 worth n900 ?" and I'm wondering what that means.20:45
pupnikrzr: does e7 have shorter battery life than n8?20:45
pupniklooks like there's less space in there20:46
mecepupnik, hw is sexier at least :)20:46
pupnikis symbian's image worse than the substance?20:47
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NiQ1ok, trying another approach. suppose the error is logged to syslog, i'll attempt to dump it to a file before shutting down.20:48
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mecepupnik, well it looks old.20:49
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MohammadAGsymbian's meh20:52
fralsbah, rotation is fubar on fremantle20:52
lcukfrals, using CSSU?20:53
fralsno, using pr1.3 and hildon.hildon_gtk_window_set_portrait_flags(self.window, hildon.PORTRAIT_MODE_SUPPORT)20:54
lcukwhat are you experiencing?20:54
fralsits useless at detecing rotation and some times mce doesnt emit the rotation signal... hoping there is some nice callback on window rotation from gtk but im guessing not :P20:55
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MohammadAGit works well for me20:55
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* lcuk gets the .HEL crew to come along and rotate frals 20:56
lcukalthought you would have to write a signal handler for girly_scream();20:56
MohammadAGwow, they can do that?20:56
ieatlintfrals: look for resize events and test if w>h20:56
MohammadAGgdk emits a signal for that20:57
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fralsieatlint, MohammadAG: cheers20:58
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fralsright... switching to a new stackable window means it forgets it was in portrait and goes back to landscape? :P21:11
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fralsMohammadAG: any solution? ;)21:14
MohammadAGfrals is the task switcher button small in landscape after it flips?21:15
MohammadAGif not, set_transient or whatever gtk's set parent window is called :P21:15
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MohammadAGgtk_window_set_transient i think21:15
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fralsyeah the task switcher button is small but it goes to landscape21:15
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MohammadAGis the new parented to the main one?21:16
MohammadAGif so, it's your hildon-desktop being an asshole21:16
MohammadAGa reboot will kick it again21:16
MohammadAGa killall will break it more :p21:16
MohammadAGI still don't know why it happens21:17
fralsor hm21:17
MohammadAGbut it's very annoying, made me waste an hour21:17
fralsmaybe i dont actually set the parent when i use this path21:17
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frals... this is the downside not looking at the code more than once a month :p21:17
MohammadAGI never got PyGtk or PyQt tbh21:18
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MohammadAGfound C/C++ much faster21:18
fralsno difference if its pygtk or plain gtk, its still horrible compared to qt :p21:18
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MohammadAGgtk isn't that bad21:19
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* MohammadAG looks at gobject with fear21:19
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MohammadAGfrals, ever considered a C/Gtk rewrite?21:19
fralsyes, and rejected it ;)21:20
fralsif i would rewrite id to it in qt/qml21:20
infobotfrals meant: if i would rewrite id do it in qt/qml21:20
MohammadAGQML's sexy21:20
MohammadAGQt's nice to work with, not much to worry about21:21
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fralssweet, all my problems went away with a reboot21:34
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SpeedEvilI tried that. It diddn't fix my broken central heating.21:36
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GAN900SpeedEvil, did you fsck the eMMC?21:37
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MohammadAGfrals, told ya :)21:39
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pupnik "Tepco Simpson"
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chxlet's hope they are more clueful than that22:32
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Jaffarm_work: pong22:40
rm_workJaffa: hey :P22:40
rm_workI thought I remembered earlier someone saying you were the person to talk to about hostmasks here, could be wrong22:41
Jaffarm_work: X-Fade specifically, but he deputised me ;-)22:41
rm_workwell, can you help me out? :P22:41
Jaffarm_work: Send me an email to with your freenode user name22:41
rm_workdone, thanks :)22:43
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lcukJaffa, am I right in thinking that when you request a cloak you are entered into a free draw to win a /maemo/council cloak upgrade instead? :P22:45
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bmani was trying to install a older alpha of fennec for n800/diablo and install keeps failing due to pkill22:46
bmanwhat package is pkill in?22:46
Jaffalcuk: Something like that. But then you have to email maemo-community as well. And it's a time-limited offer.22:46
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bmanwhats a time limited offer?22:47
lcukrm_work, to be in with a chance of a nice new cloak made out of the finest threads, send a mail to the Maemo Community ML syaing "I nominate myself for a cloak (and the council thingy)"22:47
RST38hI think the best incentive will be money though.22:48
* RST38h smiles evilly22:48
bmanwhat am i missing22:48
lcukobviously a cloak22:49
lcukRST38h, well noone has ever said otherwise22:50
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ZogGJaffa, haha i heard that too. may i email too?22:51
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pupniki just discovered how good gimp's sinc scaler for enlarging images -
pronto  im so confused22:53
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ZogGpupnik, that's what she told me22:54
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pupnikimpressive pronto22:56
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prontod'oh didnt mean to post that in here22:56
ZogGnow i have to check it22:56
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* Arkenoi ordered 3-pack of scud batteries, will see if those are really that good22:57
bmanwhat package is pkill in?22:57
bmanbetter question, anyone got fennec/firefox4 working on n80022:57
bmani had a old version 1.0 working and havent been able to install 1.1 or newer22:58
pupniki wish we had a 'cryopid'22:58
derfI don't think we've been actively testing against Maemo 4 for some time.22:58
bmani noticed that, the last version i found built for maemo4 was 1.122:59
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bmanbut it fails to install because its looking for pkill22:59
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bmani made a pkill and dropped it in /bin and it still fails so its looking for pkill in some hard coded path i assume23:00
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derfpkill is /usr/bin/pkill on my N900.23:00
bmanim a ff extension builder and want to test my shit on a device (i dont have n900 or android)23:00
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derfSo you might try dropping it there.23:00
bmani tried in /usr/bin/pkill link to /bin/pkill (ln -s) and it still fails23:01
derfYou could also try asking in #mobile on
derfSomeone there probably knows more than I do.23:01
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bmani just posted in there too23:04
bmanwonder why they stopped building for n80023:04
bmanfree n900's?23:04
SpeedEvilI've not been keeping up over the past few days.23:05
SpeedEvilHave there been any meegodevice rumors I've missed?23:05
MohammadAGalterego, ping23:06
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, no, they replaced MeeGo with Windows Phone 9!23:06
MohammadAGthey skipped 8, it was obsolete apparently23:07
timeless_w7ipbman: a couple of problems23:07
timeless_w7ipone the people who made the sdk for maemo screwed up23:07
timeless_w7ipthere was a toolchain update23:07
timeless_w7ipand it pulled in a libc which wasn't actually shipped to maemo4 or something fun like that23:07
timeless_w7ipand no one reported that they'd been shipping broken binaries for well over a week23:07
timeless_w7ipi.e. there were no customers23:07
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bmani used it23:08
bmanbut it was version 1.023:08
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timeless_w7ipi'm talking about the nightlies23:08
bmanit wasnt doing auto updates23:08
bmanyeah i wasnt using nightlies23:08
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MohammadAGalterego, nevermind, solved it :D23:08
bmanso 1.1 is the last version for maemo4 then i guess23:08
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ZogGbman еру йгуыешщт црн еру ыещззув ыгззщке т900 тщкьфддн фы цудд =)23:12
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ZogG_laptopbman never mind23:16
ZogG_laptopbut look i can do like this too שלום23:16
ZogG_laptopמה קורא? =)23:16
* lcuk thinks this place is starting to look more and more like the graffiti wall every day23:17
ZogG_laptoplcuk, is it bad?23:18
lcukwell with the sketch fonts, nope :)23:19
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ZogG_laptopit's hebrew23:20
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lcukZogG_laptop, it could be herbrew for all I care :) it is good to see variety23:21
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RST38hZogG: Do stick to English though:not everyone can read Hebrew23:22
RST38h[hell, my ircii can't even display unicode]23:22
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ZogGRST38h use xchat23:25
RST38hsorry, no xchat inside an ssh session23:25
ZogGand i don't think anyone here speaks hebrew23:25
ZogGRST38h, why ssh?23:25
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RST38hwhy ask?23:26
FauxFauxZogG: To allow the use of screen.23:26
SpeedEvilDoes MohammadAG?23:26
hajRST38h: irssi23:28
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, speak hebrew? barely23:29
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kerioi know aleph and beth23:29
MohammadAGthough I could tell what ZogG said above, obviously23:29
ZogGMohammadAG, you are half way there23:30
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ZogGMohammadAG do you have arabic layout?23:30
MohammadAG<RST38h> [hell, my ircii can't even display unicode] <-- teehehehe :P23:30
MohammadAGZogG, sorry, don't use arabic on my PC23:31
kerioutf8 pwns j0023:31
ZogGkerio =)23:32
ZogGгеа8 аец23:32
MohammadAGI have to say23:32
MohammadAGQML rocks for everything but lists23:32
ZogGdamn it's hard to have 3 langs23:32
ZogGi always mess with layouts23:32
keriosıɥʇ op uɐɔ noʎ ǝsnɐɔǝq zǝןnɹ 8ɟʇn23:33
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ZogGutf8 ♥23:35
ZogGcan we manage compose key on n900?23:35
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vi__did anyone read about the SCUD battery?23:50
vi__it has 1500mAh...23:51
ThreeMany link?23:51
vi__check forum, dr_frost_dk's thread23:52
vi__it is one of the latest he has tested23:53
ThreeMim skeptic23:55
RST38hhehe, Oracle JavaSE SDK does not install:the installer hangs23:55
RST38hWhat a pileof crap...23:55
ThreeMlike the android sdk :)23:56
vi__write once23:56
vi__crash anywhere23:56
* MohammadAG needs to figure out how to null on delete23:57
RST38hptr = 0; <===23:57
vi__is that like a bong?23:57

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