IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2011-03-13

BCMMthat it is00:00
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BCMMi want a future in which everything is routinely encrypted00:00
BCMMit just doesn't take substantial resources anymore, for stuff like amounts of text humans can reasonably process00:00
BCMMand it's such a good idea on so many levels00:00
DocScrutinizerinternetishard: that's nonsense, N900 contacts nicely integrates all kinds of "IM", except maybe IRC via xchat. For sure it does for SIP-chat, skype, and whatnot else00:00
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joppufucking awesome00:01
joppunow if anyone pings me on IRC, it'll notify me directly on jabber on my N90000:02
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doc|homejoppu: don't you think that might00:02
doc|homejoppu: get00:02
doc|homejoppu: annoying00:02
doc|homejoppu: ?00:02
lcukjoppu, nice one!00:02
jopputhat's why there's flood protection!00:02
DocScrutinizerjust like popups for highlight in xchat do00:02
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lcukjoppu, I do not think RST38h is correct this time00:03
BCMMthat's nearly as cool as getting all your spam email SMSed to you.00:03
lcukRST38h, what makes you think joppu will think it is annoying?00:03
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ??00:03
BCMMthis is the nature of geeks...00:03
internetishardThat happens by default with IM clients ;]00:04
BCMMgive them the tiniest amount of influence over a remote system, and they'll try to abuse it :)00:04
DocScrutinizerlcuk: mental ETAB?00:04
DocScrutinizer~seen RST38h00:04
infobotrst38h is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 196 messages. Is idling for 1h 5m 43s, last said: 'Yea, right'.00:05
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ShadSECUnder SEH Team00:22
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anidelnice, can't login in anymore... how can I reset the password?01:02
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DocScrutinizererrr, login->"forgot your password?"01:17
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DocScrutinizerohwell :-S  >>Warning: pg_connect() []: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server...01:19
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DocScrutinizererrr broken01:21
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: ^^^01:21
DocScrutinizer  "server rejected connect"01:23
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: GAN900: whom to PING ?01:31
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DocScrutinizerweird some 3 servers went down today, one of them my mailserver01:32
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DocScrutinizeranidel: authentication is broken, that's not your password or general credentials. Mine doesn't work as well01:40
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anidelah ...thanks01:44
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vi__who here has the balls to look into the maemo source code and tell me what is assigned to interrupt 57?01:46
vi__actually 5601:47
vi__and 3701:47
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SpeedEvilWhat does cat /proc/interruptsshow?01:48
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DocScrutinizergeneral purpose timer, and I2C, prolly bus 101:55
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vi__i know it is i2c, however what is spamming my i2c bus 10 times a second?01:58
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SpeedEvilPossibly smartreflex02:00
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* dangergrrl <3 flasher02:01
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DocScrutinizerwell, I2C1 aka I2C_CNTL == GAIA next to SmartReflex02:12
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SpeedEvilOne important thing to realise about interrupts is that you absolutely don't care about 99.9% of reported ones.02:20
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SpeedEvilFor example, if an interrupt happens whentheCPUis awake, or pait of a rapid interrupt train - there are almost no powerimplications.02:20
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DocScrutinizerwith OMAP zero clock design, there's even little to worry about when IRQs happen during >=C402:41
DocScrutinizeras only the needed blocks will power up, with minimal penalty for transition to C0 and back to "idle"02:42
dangergrrldoes aptitude work on n900?02:42
dangergrrlfor installing maemo stuff, not debian btw02:43
DocScrutinizerIRQs are really bad on designs like S3C2442 based Freerunner, which does a suspend to ram for idle mode, which takes 3..4 eternities, compared to wake from C4 of OMAP02:45
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dangergrrli really would prefer to delude myself with the idea that hardware is magic for the present moment02:52
dangergrrland yes i can read a databook and write a device driver02:52
dangergrrlbut it hurts thinking about it02:52
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: hardware *IS* magic, courtesy of us EE03:01
divanWhere are desktop configuration (icons, widgets, position/placement, etc) is stored?03:02
divans/is //03:03
infobotdivan meant: Where are desktop configuration (icons, widgets, position/placement, etc) stored?03:03
DocScrutinizeroh well03:03
DocScrutinizerseveral places03:03
divanI need icons and widgets03:03
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DocScrutinizericons as in pictures are somewhere in /usr/share/icons03:05
divanDocScrutinizer, no I mean shortcuts, currently placed on the desktop.03:05
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DocScrutinizer-> /home/user/.config/hildon-desktop/home.plugins (maybe)03:08
divanDocScrutinizer, thanks! It contains widgets. Must be separate file for contacts/shortcuts..03:11
DocScrutinizer  /etc/hildon-desktop03:11
divan/etc/hildon-desktop is the global configuration, I've already searched it.03:12
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dangergrrlyeah well i'm an embedded systems and kernel girl03:30
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dangergrrlhardware is just hard work to make work03:31
dangergrrland the datasheets are always wrong03:31
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gregoadangergrrl: aptitude works on the command line, the GUI segfaults03:40
dangergrrli want the command line03:42
dangergrrlthough i don't remember how to use aptitude03:42
dangergrrli remember it has help03:42
dangergrrland i can run in in ssh in a nice big xterm03:43
dangergrrli (needlessly) flashed03:43
dangergrrland have to reinstall all my apps03:43
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dangergrrlif you corrupt your boot scripts03:43
dangergrrlyou can get a shell from the meego initrd image03:44
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DocScrutinizerdangergrrl: umm, AIUI you need my nano-aptitude script from  Miniwrapper for apt-get logs04:05
DocScrutinizerWTF is /etc/systemui/cell-modem-ui.xml ?04:11
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: what's up?04:14
DocScrutinizermaemo blows chunks04:14
DocScrutinizerwiki.m.o  >>Warning: pg_connect() []: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server...04:15
DocScrutinizer  "server rejected connect"04:15
villagerDocScrutinizer: that's from an app in extras you've probably installed... the system menu to turn the cell modem off04:15
DocScrutinizerauthentication fails as well04:15
tybolltWell cheer up laddy Nokia's gone all in to bring us that awesome new OS Meego...                           oh wait...04:16
DocScrutinizervillager: thanks04:16
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: or is it fixed meanwhile ? :-D04:17
DocScrutinizeroh well, seems it "fixed itself"04:18
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DocScrutinizeror loadbalancer has mixed me to another box ;-P04:19
DocScrutinizermuxed even04:19
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer: too bad X-Fade's always busy these days.04:25
DocScrutinizerhe must appoint a proxy04:25
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DocScrutinizermoin lcukn90004:50
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lcuk\o doc04:56
lcukDocScrutinizer, was playing lemmings today on  an Amiga04:56
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lcukDocScrutinizer, it was fun, I saved 95% of them :D05:11
DocScrutinizerI bet it was. Amiga1000 was the best IT time of my life05:12
DocScrutinizerwait, is taht an original Amiga monitor? :-O05:13
lcukI believe so DocScrutinizer05:14
DocScrutinizeror is my memory fooling me05:14
lcuk#Playable #ZXSpectrum #Amiga #C64 #BBCMICRO #Archimedes and many more at #Manchester #MOSI Family Telecomms weekend! #Lemmings #awesome
lcukhold on, I can get a better shot I think05:15
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DocScrutinizerI "tuned" that one with a 6V~ transformer and a 10R 2W potentiometer, plus a relay, to preheat the CRT and get instant on when pushing the powerbutton05:19
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DocScrutinizeras it took so incredibly long to heat up without that05:21
lcuki had an analog tv for the longest time through a demodulator thingie05:21
lcukwhen I saw that today, I peeked round the back to see if the hunk of sheer odd design was in place05:21
DocScrutinizerhehe, I used the 1081 for TV with the tuner of a VCR05:21
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DocScrutinizerwas quite convenient to switch between SCART and CVBS05:22
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Guest40473could someone lend a hand troubleshooting this n810 video hardware05:22
Guest40473i am fairly certain if i totally depower the device, then boot it will work again05:23
DocScrutinizerno idea what'S N8100 video hw though05:23
Guest40473but i'd like to establish why this keeps happening05:23
lcukGuest40473, I used to use my n810 camera routinely05:23
Guest40473dmesg does not have much valuable output, and i dont see any kernel processes using much cpu on top05:23
Guest40473it is the screen05:24
lcukonly on very very rare occasions would it do strange stuff05:24
Guest40473i was playing vgba, when the screen suddenly began to fade to white05:24
lcukexplain your problem then05:24
Guest40473with vertical colored lines05:24
Guest40473if i tap, the backlight comes on05:24
DocScrutinizerouch, FPC05:24
DocScrutinizeror B2B-connector loose05:25
Guest40473showing white, mostly with a thin black/teal/yellow line, about every 1/2 cm05:25
Guest40473i can still ssh into the machine, though05:25
Guest40473the system is still running05:25
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DocScrutinizeryeah, /query PaulFerster, he had exactly same issue with one N810 some time ago. I can't remember if we managed to fix it, and what's been the exact cause05:26
DocScrutinizerPaulFertser even05:26
DocScrutinizerdoes it change on open/close slider?05:27
pupnik DocScrutinizer "we sell original part, picture is from back of speaker"]05:27
pupnik"do not worry"05:28
Guest40473well, popping slider turns the backlight on05:28
Guest40473other then that, no change05:28
Guest40473if i press the lock slider05:28
pupniknot everyone is smart i guess05:28
Guest40473i can still see the lines05:28
Guest40473even though the screen should be black/off05:28
Guest40473last time this happened, issuing init 6 did not fix the problem05:29
Guest40473i had to totally depower the device, then boot05:29
Guest40473i feel like05:29
DocScrutinizerGuest40473: My guess is it's the flat plastic cable that connects screen to main body05:29
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Guest40473the video driver bugs out and places the video hardware05:29
Guest40473in an unrecoverable state05:29
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DocScrutinizerif the box is back up (maybe tomorrow) you can check - you'll find that cable and the board-to-board connector at the end that also might get loose. Though often the cable itself or the B2B-con soldering breaks05:34
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Guest40473ran an init 6,05:34
Guest40473looking at boot messages to see if the driver complains about the problem05:34
Guest40473during the soft power off the white screen/vertical lines faded so now it's just blank black05:35
Guest40473is there anything else to look for diagnostic msg other then dmesg?05:37
DocScrutinizerI'd not know of anything that could diagnose the hw problem of the cable05:37
Guest40473i can confirm if the problem is cable-related in a minute05:38
Guest40473this problem is sporadic,05:38
DocScrutinizerquery paul, join ##mhd05:39
DocScrutinizerto oing him05:39
Guest40473so if i could find some symptom05:39
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kpomanguys sorry bout my ignorance, but what is emmc ? is it the internal n900 memory ? or the external microsd card ?05:44
chxthere is a 32gb SD card wired into the N900 as you know05:45
chxthat's the eMMC (embedded MMC)05:45
kpomanah ok I thought E was for external05:46
kpomando you know something about nitdroid ?05:46
chxi'd rather call it internal storage than memory although it's certainly flash memory but not operaitonal memory05:46
chxnothing more than you do05:46
kpomanok :p05:46
pupnikyes chx - handheld mfgrs are terrible about that05:46
kpomando someone know a bit about nitdroid ? gingerbread etc... ? I want to give it a try ...05:47
chxyeah carrying around any device with 32gb of *memory* would blow my socks05:47
kpomanyep I saw that page05:47
chxmy webservers have 32gb in them and even in a server that's a bit untypical05:48
chxcant even imagine how would you squeeze 32gb dram in a phone. but i'd buy one :D05:48
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woldrichWhy would one want to use android on the n900?05:49
pupnikhow about a foss OSM earth app - 3d world view05:49
chxwoldrich: well. how about Angry Birds?05:49
* chx runs05:49
woldrichchx, what?05:49
pupnikangry birds was designed on maemo05:49
chxi was joking05:49
chxwow didnt know that05:50
woldrichI didnt get the reference :(05:50
chxi presumed it's an iPhone / Android app05:50
pupnikeveryone does05:50
Guest40473can someone run lsmod on n81005:50
Guest40473what is display driver name?05:50
chxi am too old fashioned gamer to even understand  the lure of angry birds05:51
woldrichHey, we can run pretty much every single linux application, can android do that?05:51
Guest40473woldrich: android does not have an X server05:51
woldrichoh, games. Yes, I am old as well. I know Pacman.05:51
woldrichguest40473, What do they use, something homebrew?05:52
chxi hope to god that the new HP phones wont be locked down too hrad05:52
pupnika.b. is a study in simplicity and genius05:52
woodong50_______is it possible to insert android on n81005:52
chxi think android runs fb simply05:52
Guest40473woldrich: afaik they just run something homebrew to composite their custom widgets/wm controls into their fb05:52
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lolcatI am seriously considering to buy a second N)0005:53
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Guest40473woldrich: basically, short story: to my knowledge xterm doesnt run out of the box on android... because there is no xserv05:53
woldrichI have some more exciting links to share with you; what about this: (yes, works on n900)05:54
woldrichguest40473, I see.05:54
chxmy biggest problem with the n900 is bulk05:54
chxi bought a belt case and it digs into my side so that's not a good solution05:55
chxhow do you guys carry the thing?05:55
chxi have an e51 and that's pocketable05:55
chxthis is too thick and heavy to be pocketable05:55
chxand i am afraid i'll scratch the screen too05:56
woldrichNo, your pockets are too small :)05:56
Guest40473man. how can i test this display..   x is running.. i can connect to a x11vnc instance05:56
DocScrutinizerI'd never dare to carry N900 in pocket. belt pouch05:56
chxwoldrich: my normal clothing maybe but my travel clothing has several pockets big enough for a nook :) but that's insanity.05:56
Guest40473dont see anything problematic in dmesg, i dont see a driver in lsmod... but could be one of these..05:56
chxDocScrutinizer: and ... how do you wear it on your belt? i cant sit with it on my belt.05:57
psycho_oreosif you think N900 is quite bulky, wait till you add otterman's case to it :p05:58
chxDocScrutinizer: do you remove it when you sit down?05:58
woldrichI havent been here in a while. What's the current situation after Nokias retarded idea of using Microsoft Windows instead? I guess this n900 was the last usable product from them... :/05:58
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chxi got this05:59
psycho_oreosthere's rumours of N950 coming out06:00
chxyou mean the head nokia guy saying that?06:00
psycho_oreosno I think it was Nokia's CTO06:01
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: woldrich asked about *usable* products06:01
chxtha'ts a bit more than a rumour but he said that there might be and who knows when and whether it'll have a keyboard :(06:01
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, he didn't say now however :)06:01
DocScrutinizerthat's not the point06:01
psycho_oreosor at least from a pessimistic point of view, yes there's nothing apart from N900 being the last of the usable product for *now*06:02
chxso back to pouches :)06:03
psycho_oreoschx, or will it even be running meego, what sort of internal hardware would it have, etc06:03
DocScrutinizerand maybe they decide to produce and sell a N995-classic some day. That might pic up where N950 dropped the ball06:03
chxwho else has ideas about carrying.06:03
DocScrutinizershoulder holster ;-P06:04
psycho_oreoswith a lanyard and hang it around your neck ;)06:04
chxisnt it a bit heavy for a lanyard?06:05
chxhrm, shoulder holster, i am in Canada not in Texas.06:05
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psycho_oreosnope I've wore it around the neck before. That's with a really old nokia lanyard I found off me brother's very old phone he used to have06:06
chx hrm :)06:06
lcuki have the bottom part of a lanyard on my n900, helps to grab and pull it out of pocket with06:06
Guest40473psycho_oreos: unless an update has been published, last i heard the meego people did say: "yes, we will still be shipping 1 meego device"06:06
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Guest40473woldrich psycho_oreos:
psycho_oreoslol I wore it a few times before but it was a little annoying with N900 swinging around my shirt when I was walking. I looked more like one of those `gangsta'. I wore it more or less until I one day I put it in my pocket and when crossing an engine stand the lanyard caught itself on an engine part before ripping apart06:09
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psycho_oreosGuest40473, there's more than one meego device out there, and yes Nokia's CEO did utter about bringing out one meego device by the end of this year. Apart from that both Intel and Fujitsu have either brought out or am planning to bring out a meego powered device06:10
internetishardWhat are the primary steps you guys took to secure your n900s?06:11
* chx shoots anyone who even looks at his phone.06:11
psycho_oreoslock code on mine06:12
internetishardI haven't used that, since I don't let it out of my hands anyway06:12
DocScrutinizernow how did we get to meego now? I thought it was still about *usable* devices06:12
internetishardalways in pocket06:12
internetishardand it doesn't seem the lock code would help if it is stolen06:12
Guest40473DocScrutinizer:   -_-06:12
psycho_oreosno it wouldn't help but it would make it hard for thieves to make it useful for resale06:13
Guest40473internetishard: mostly for keeping quasi-savy friends/coworkers06:13
Guest40473from doing jackass-like things with your contacts list/saved passwords06:13
internetishardyou can just reset it?06:13
psycho_oreosthe lock code isn't easily resettable, sure with handy computer skills you'll need to write to /dev/mtd and hoping it won't brick the device06:14
internetishardI care more about all the info I store on the device than the device itself (both would be disasterous, but making money to buy it again wouldn't be as bad as stolen personal info, etc)06:14
internetishardoh, okay, I thought the lock code was easier06:14
internetishardto reset, that is06:14
Guest40473n810 lock code can be read from /dev/mtd106:14
Guest40473with a bit of grepping06:15
Guest40473why need to write, when you can just read.. then unlock? ;p06:15
pupnik'one meego device' could be a zero-investment netbook bought from intel06:15
psycho_oreosN900 isn't exactly a popular device to be stolen and be reused.06:15
psycho_oreoslock code with timeout would prove quite challenging to the thief06:16
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chxexplain that to the crackhead who brandishes a knife demanding your phone so he can pawn it for today's shot06:16
Guest40473so what's the problem with carrying the n900 again?06:16
psycho_oreosi.e. every 30 minutes the device asks for lock code, you can't simply hook the device up to computer, and set it to PC Suite mode to ssh in and read the code let alone getting into xterm and doing the same thing06:16
Guest40473i carry n810 every day, sure it is thinner06:16
Guest40473but also much larger06:17
Guest40473and much heavier06:17
pupnikchx: that person should be shot06:17
* DocScrutinizer is all for a proper xdm06:17
chxpupnik: and yet06:17
DocScrutinizerfsck lock-code nonsense06:17
psycho_oreosI thought iphone crap was all the rage, N900 isn't that popular, sure the thief might earn some quid for it but not as much as when he steals iphone06:18
Guest40473i just use the supplied sleeve/protector while i carry it06:18
DocScrutinizerand still I'm wondering which closed source blob in init is querying the lock code06:18
chxso what do we think would be helpful?06:18
Guest40473to provide minimal puncture-resistance for screen, and to keep pocket lint out of it06:18
chxpsycho_oreos: yeah but the thief can barely see straight muhc less actually recognize an iPhone06:19
Guest40473chx: if you want to be shot in a tube station06:19
chxGuest40473: lulz what?06:19
psycho_oreosI have otterman's case for that, I have accidentally dropped the phone a few times and it hasn't bear any physical damages to the device itself06:19
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Guest40473electricians have been shot down there for less06:20
psycho_oreoschx, I don't think the thief would be dumb enough to not see the difference between an iphone and N90006:20
Guest40473puffy coats, et al06:20
psycho_oreosespecially N900 with otterman's case makes it look very different to iphone06:21
* DocScrutinizer wonders what fsckdup part of this globe Guest40473 lives in06:21
chxsounds London to me06:22
internetisharddoes the lock code prevent someone from hooking it up to the computer with usb and download the data off of it?06:22
internetishardif not, then I don't really care about it06:22
DocScrutinizerthough more like USA for the "shoot first, ask later" paradigm06:22
psycho_oreosit does if its also set to have timeout06:22
Guest40473cant you just hook usb & boot in flasher mode?06:23
psycho_oreoserr its called autolock06:23
Guest40473dump whole device to a file, with free flasher tool06:23
psycho_oreosflasher mode afaik only allows sending firmwares across to the device rather than dumping any devices06:24
Guest40473iirc free flasher tool lets you take full backups06:24
Guest40473because people are lazy06:24
DocScrutinizernot that I know of06:24
psycho_oreoswhich flasher tool are you talking about?06:24
DocScrutinizeractually it'd be nice if it did06:24
DocScrutinizerbut flasher is just a "frontend" to NOLO basically, and NOLO doesn't support readout of anything else than maybe CAL/mtd106:26
* psycho_oreos goes to find that tmo page on resetting lock codes06:26
Guest404730xFFFF is the community flasher06:27
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: meh, I can write down the one cmdline off top of my head, but it's worthless06:27
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, meaning that the lock code can still be dumped regardless?06:29
lolcatShould I get the N900 for 256EUR unused?06:30
DocScrutinizerregradless of what?06:30
Guest40473that seems extremely expensive06:30
lolcatI hate this country06:30
lolcat50% more a week ago06:30
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DocScrutinizerGuest40473: well, I don't completely get it what they are doing, but actually you could load your own "NOLO" via OMAP's ROM bootloader coldflash scheme, and that one for sure *could* read out arbitrary storage06:31
psycho_oreosregardless of using flasher mode or not?06:31
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: sorry, you lost me06:32
psycho_oreosGuest40473, interesting06:32
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, you were saying that you can write down the one cmdline off the top of your head.. can you elaborate on that? you mean you can actually retrieve the lock code by other means06:32
DocScrutinizeractually I'm completely lost with the last ~8 posts06:33
DocScrutinizerwhat's expensive?06:33
Guest40473lolcat: nm, that price is not so unreasonable, particularly for unused + in a smaller market.06:33
lolcatGuest40473: I could bargain it down, but if the price is less than 2000 I only have 2 years warranty06:34
DocScrutinizergrep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -106:34
Guest40473only about 350 usd06:34
lolcatless than 256eur06:34
lolcatGuest40473: And I figure 5 years of warranty is awesomer than 206:35
lolcateven if it costs me a few dollars extra06:36
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Guest40473alright. im out of ideas06:38
Guest40473dmesg, lsmod,06:38
Guest40473soft reboot.06:38
DocScrutinizeractually the N900 is unbrickable, which means it's also not protectable by lock codes, at least against reflashing but actually it seems also against readout of data. You of course can use cryptfs et al06:38
DocScrutinizerthat's where we're back to my request for proper xdm06:39
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internetishardwhat is this flasher thing that lets you take full backups?06:44
luke-jrI'm not aware of it letting you make backups06:46
psycho_oreoslol I didn't get to see the lock_code in plaintext, it was saying binary file /dev/mtd1 matches. Checking it via strings and the lock_code is encrypted06:46
internetishardsomeone just said that above06:47
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Guest40473i believe 0xFFFF should be able to write a full backup of internal flash out with "-e"06:49
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: yes, as is clearly explained in that tmo thread06:49
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, `root:Binary file /dev/mtd1 matches:' :)06:51
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Guest40473nice, slightly more protected then maemo 406:51
Guest40473psycho_oreos: ...06:51
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: sorry, I have difficulties to follow your thoughts and posts06:52
psycho_oreosbut no apart from that I can see a few encrypted lock_code by sifting through via strings06:52
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Guest40473psycho_oreos: in maemo 4, the lock code was on disk in plain text06:53
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, the output of that little command was the result, grep doesn't actually dump the encrypted file it just does comparison06:53
Guest40473it seems like in maemo 5 the n900 has it written down as a DES digest06:53
Guest40473but an attacker can take that string06:53
psycho_oreosGuest40473, and can be cracked in 1 second06:53
Guest40473and brute force it, extremely quickly06:53
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: sorry, I have difficulties to follow your thoughts and posts06:53
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, echo root:$(grep -A 13 lock_code /dev/mtd1|tail -1): = root:Binary file /dev/mtd1 matches:06:54
DocScrutinizerhmm, you must use busybox grep06:54
psycho_oreosindeed as I just realised, using gnu grep is different06:55
DocScrutinizerNB root:12345: is still plain text and not encrypted, and means the device has factory default set and never changed yet06:58
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pupnik  4.3" NIT on your forearm07:08
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psycho_oreosyou meant IT07:11
pupnik  if this only had bluetooth it would make a nice client for n90007:14
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ebzzry_Hi! Does anyone how to replace lxp's kernel (wl1251) with titan's?07:30
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ds3I'll settle for any watch with bluetooth that can do more then display the caller id07:32
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ds3whoa, it exists!07:38
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pupnik  cool, "Get real-time notifications right on your wrist"08:09
pupnik"inPulse is the perfect hacker accessory - a fully programmable wireless smartwatch."08:09
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chx isnt it a bit large?08:10
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ds3if it works...08:13
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robbiethe1stHm, I'd be more interested in how indestructible it is: Unless its like my $20 Armitron and can literally be used as a hammer without damage, it's too fragile for me.08:16
robbiethe1st(I've had this one for like 4+ years, and wear it almost 24/7. The case plastic's edges have been rounded down, the screen's plastic cover's scratched to ****, and it still works right.)08:18
ebzzry_I need to reinstall titan's kernel, but after installing lxp's bleeding edge wl1215 kernel, I can no longer install it.08:20
ds3Oh I can relate... I had a 10+ year old timex08:20
an0therb0xwhich configurtion file(s) controlas System -> Setting -> Personalization ?08:20
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iluminator101is there a kindle app for maemo08:35
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robbiethe1stiluminator101: Probably not. But there is skindle and FBReader.08:42
robbiethe1stFree your data, then use it on just about anything.08:42
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RST38hMany foods are naturally radioactive, and bananas are particularly so, due to the radioactive potassium-40 they contain. The banana equivalent dose is the radiation exposure received by eating a single banana. By comparing the exposure from these events to a banana equivalent dose, a more intuitive assessment of the actual risk can sometimes be obtained.08:53
RST38hBananas are radioactive enough to regularly cause false alarms on radiation sensors used to detect possible illegal smuggling of nuclear material at US ports.08:54
* RST38h goes to the kitchen, to dispose of the radioactive materials08:55
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derfDoes anyone actually eat a banana every single day?08:55
RST38hProbably - many people take 'em to work for lunch08:56
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derfI would get sick to death of them.08:56
derfAnd not from the radiation!08:56
RST38hSame here, but tastes differ08:57
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Venemohi guys09:01
RST38h...bananas cause radiation exposure even when not ingested; for instance, standing next to a crate of bananas causes a measurable dose.09:02
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MohammadAGRST38h, seriously? Never knew that09:04
RST38hMohammad: (also see "brazilian nuts" there)09:04
psycho_oreosradiation from bananas is not noted to have any significant impact on human being thus if such were the case it would have been already documented and should not be eaten in excessive amounts09:05
RST38hif it does not affect you, you have just not eaten enough bananas! =)09:05
MohammadAGexplains why it blows up well in Worms09:05
MohammadAGgotta love that game09:05
dm8tbrthey have thermonuclear bananas there!09:06
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Venemomorning MohammadAG09:06
psycho_oreoscontrary to that, if standing next to bananas would have measurable dose of radiation, I'm sure the cultivars would have been complaining of excessive radiation dosage09:07
RST38hthey are kept in the dark by evil international corporations! =)09:07
MohammadAGmorning Venemo09:08
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dm8tbrpsycho_oreos: measurable does not necessary mean that it has an health impact09:08
dm8tbrpsycho_oreos: there are places around the world where the background radiation is far stronger than on such a plantation plus the bananas.09:09
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dm8tbralso depending on where the active potassium comes from that accumulates in bananas it might be that they reduce the background component of the soil by well accumulating it themselves09:12
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xxtjaxxHey! How can I include caldav/webdav calendars into my calendar on the n900 ?09:15
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psycho_oreosdm8tbr, you're missing my point, I was noting the fact that just because bananas are radioactive, it doesn't mean anything09:16
dm8tbrpsycho_oreos: then we have the same point.09:17
* dm8tbr continues to caffeinate09:17
psycho_oreosindeed :)09:17
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RST38hpsycho_oreos<== obviously a wikipedian09:18
xxtjaxxRST38h: not really there are also documentational video series about this09:19
RST38habout him not being a wikipedian?09:19
xxtjaxxthey are mostly conducted by uni profs and things and it truely is radioactive but they are only by a tiny tiny amount09:19
xxtjaxxRST38h: yes09:19
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RST38heveryone who ate even a single banana during 1800-1899 is dead now though09:21
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RST38hthis stuff is deadly!09:21
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MohammadAG<RST38h> psycho_oreos<== obviously a wikipedian <-- [citation needed]09:45
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MohammadAGhmm, setting a higher value for HILDON_STACKING_LAYER causes my dialog to show over the stock call dialog09:54
doc|homeRST38h: wow09:55
RST38hWell, predictable, isn'tit?09:55
MohammadAGI feel stupid for looking for a way to kill the dialog instead of raising the number to 909:55
doc|homeRST38h: what was that in aid of, the windows stuff?09:55
RST38hdoc: a German carnival09:56
doc|homeRST38h: yep, but is it due to the layoffs a while back or more recent than that?09:56
RST38hdoc: article accompanying the photos is dated 3/3/11, so make your own conclusions09:57
doc|homecould  be a file photo09:57
chxRST38h: LOOOOL09:59
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RST38hHere is the whole article: (more lulz there, the text is in Russian, sorry)10:00
MohammadAGlolwtf @ 410:02
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doc|homedoes the n900 support daylight stupidity time automatically?10:11
fluxit does, in the same way as every unix system does10:11
RST38hafaik yes10:11
flux(that is, time is stored in UTC time, and only its interpretation is defined to cover time zones and DST)10:12
doc|homeok, thanks10:12
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phapHi all10:17
phapI have a small problem with the backup: now when I backup it always backup the same applications that the same backup I made 1 week ago. It doesn't see the new applications or the one I already removed. Any idea?10:18
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tzafrir_laptophmm... my N900 keeps hanging recently10:25
tzafrir_laptopBadly. Calls don't seem to wake it10:25
tzafrir_laptopThe power button doesn't work10:25
tzafrir_laptopI have to take out the battery and returrn it. Happened twice lately.10:25
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ZogG_laptopVenemo: hey10:30
ZogG_laptopi almost did it10:31
ZogG_laptope-yes: they didn't like joke about flash =P10:32
ZogG_laptophmm how is it possible that when i do run make from /src dir it works fine, but while i run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b -uc it fails =)10:34
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ZogG_laptop_damn webchat, proxy and timeouts10:37
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Venemohey ZogG_laptop_, congrats10:44
ZogG_laptop_Venemo: but not the whole thing10:44
ZogG_laptop_i only succeeded to make dirty code for callbacks10:45
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ZogG_laptop_but now i'm stuck with classes and using mainwindow class function from functions without class10:45
MohammadAGyou shouldn't be using functions without classes10:48
MohammadAGthat's not C++10:49
ZogG_laptop_right cause i use C10:50
ZogG_laptop_and there is some problem to make some C function class functions of Qt10:51
MohammadAGC with Qt is a bad mix10:51
ZogG_laptop_u are bad =P10:51
MohammadAGconsider a wrapper instead of mixing C and C++10:51
ZogG_laptop_i'll make console program at the end =)10:51
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ZogG_N900there will be 3 of me here10:54
ZogG_N900anyway MohammadAG the c++ api has boost10:55
MohammadAGif anyone feels like testing/improving
ZogG_N900i dunno even how to include it as it's not pk-config10:56
ZogG_N900MohammadAG, it work out of box?10:59
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, hmm?10:59
ZogG_N900works terrible11:01
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ZogG_N900took half min to appear11:07
ZogG_N900as i slided second time slide left slided =)11:07
ZogG_N900and i had 2 numbers instead one11:07
AsiQueMohammadAG: lol that was really bad... :-)11:07
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MohammadAGZogG_N900, I said testing/improving11:08
AsiQueit does take 15 sec to appear... and it donsn't want to go landscape :-!11:09
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MohammadAGAsiQue, that depends on your stock dialog11:09
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MohammadAGslowless = Qt sadly11:09
AsiQuewhere's the source?11:09
MohammadAGa Gtk rewrite would be awesome11:09
AsiQuewill look into that...11:10
ZogG_N900i dont think it's good to put apps on top of closed11:11
MohammadAGgo beg Nokia for sources, I'm not doing it :p11:12
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MohammadAGor if you're a gtk dev, use DocScrutinizer's suggestion11:14
MohammadAGLD_PRELOAD a modified lib11:14
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RST38hRevisiting the topic, it is ok to use functions without classes in C++11:24
RST38hNothing prevents it, and it makes sense in many case (i.e. the function operates on the global state, not associated with any objects).11:25
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RST38hThe rule of thumb is: if a bunch of your function takes the same first argument, and this argument is a struct, then you probably want to make it a class11:26
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MohammadAGRST38h, it's ok, but it makes looking at code painful11:28
* MohammadAG wonders what a slider's called in QML11:28
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MohammadAGheh, it doesn't have a slider11:37
MohammadAGbut making one looks easy11:37
MohammadAGthis is kinda fun11:37
Lava_CroftMohammadAG: hows the mediaplayer cloe?11:39
MohammadAGneeds some tweaks for a music-only release11:39
MohammadAGyou can try a binary11:40
Lava_Crofti would11:40
MohammadAGI update it every once in a while ^11:42
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MohammadAGthe biggest thing that needs fixing is that it iterates over all songs and adds them to a playlist, that makes the UI "hang"11:43
MohammadAGI just need to move that into a separate thread11:44
MohammadAGbut if you're using the same playlist from the stock player, it works well11:44
MohammadAG(I use it daily)11:44
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Lava_CroftI just renamed the old bin and started using this one11:46
Lava_Croftdoes it do streaming yet?11:46
Lava_Croft( i mostly use it for streaming radio while working)11:46
Lava_Croftif not, i can just use mplayer11:47
MohammadAGyou don't need to rename the old one, in fact, I suggest you don't11:47
Lava_Crofti figured that out just now11:47
MohammadAGit can do streaming, but the window isn't connected to handle pause/stop next/prev11:47
Lava_Croftwell MohammadAG, that mediaplayer of yours its quite the piece of work11:55
Lava_Croftgood job, damn11:55
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MohammadAGthanks :D11:59
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ZogG_laptop_damn, double click just make whois =912:07
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ZogG_laptop_Venemo: than i would need help to make it work in Qt or make separete lib/file with all functions that make all the job and connect it to my program12:20
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VenemoZogG_laptop_: I can help with that12:54
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VenemoZogG_laptop_: can't you use the pattern that I created in the version I sent you?12:55
MohammadAGwhy does Qt Creator lack a deploy to device feature for QML...12:59
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timeless_w7ipmohammadag: more fun this way :)13:07
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MohammadAGtimeless_w7ip, heh13:10
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MohammadAGI hate the new Qt SDK13:11
pupawayMohammadAG: does it still support n900 as a target?13:12
MohammadAGyes, it does, but it sucks13:13
MohammadAGit fails to deploy unless I remove the old build myself13:13
pupawayah that's the problem13:13
pupawaysomeone was asking about it13:13
MohammadAGquite a helpful error ":-1: error: Packaging failed."13:14
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ZogG_laptop_Venemo: i still didn't see your version14:02
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ZogG_laptop_Venemo: do you still have my repo?14:02
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VenemoZogG_laptop_: I gave it to you a few days ago14:13
ZogG_laptop_i know14:13
ZogG_laptop_i just wanted u to look what i did14:13
Venemoso why didn't you see it?14:13
Venemookay, send it to me then :)14:14
ZogG_laptop_i used static int i and i++; and printed it everytime in callback - it worked14:14
ZogG_laptop_Venemo: i didn't see it as it didn't work right as u told14:14
wazdhola all14:16
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wazdZogG_laptop_: your project? :)14:40
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ZogG_laptop_wazd: what about it?14:41
ZogG_laptop_wazd: look at qmlreddit and if you have time look at bouncebounce game =)14:41
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wazdZogG_laptop_: <- I thought that was for me :)14:52
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Extends_hi all, I need some help. how to get permission to create database automatically on maemo with qt ?15:03
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jaskahmm :)15:20
jaskaNokia-N810-43-7:~# uptime 15:23:48 up 287 days, 13:39, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.0015:20
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ruskiedo you use it daily?15:21
troulouliouhi i would like to resize home and mydocs ; but i do not understand one thing in the tuto ; do i have to reflash the firmware ?15:21
jaskamostly fbreader15:21
ruskietroulouliou, nope15:21
ruskiejaska, ahh I have an eink reader for that ;)15:21
ShadowJKI'd definitely have a backup of everything15:21
troulouliouruskie: it is just that home and mydocs wil be deleted15:22
trouloulioui can copy back after ?15:22
ruskieif you make a backup first yes15:22
troulouliouok cause in the tuto it says : Backup all settings (to your computer or SD), reflash, restore the settings and install rootsh (no other applications!).15:22
jaskaruskie: with text set to white on black i can read without extra light at night too, which is a plus over e-ink type, and i didnt want to buy another device just for it when i already had one :)15:22
ruskiejaska, haha that setup messed up my eyes badly15:23
ruskiealso backlit is annoying15:23
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jaskawell, i have to read with my worse eye closed anyway, not wearing glasses at that point15:24
troulouliouanother question; i have a problem with samba-common ; at each time i instll a packet with apt-get i get error dpkg configuring samba-common15:24
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ruskiejaska, ahh... well dark setups and a shitty monitor basicalyl ruined my eyes in half a year...15:25
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* jaska remembers the days of 1600x1200 87Hz interlaced on 17"15:27
jaskaactually no, that was 59Hz15:27
jaskathe 87iHz was 1152x864 on 14"15:27
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v2pxhi, i have a problem with my scratchbox. it keeps saying "ERROR: Cannot determine user. $USER is null. Please check your environment.15:37
v2pxwhen i try so /scratchbox/login15:37
infobotv2px meant: when i try to /scratchbox/login15:37
v2pxhow can i fix this?15:39
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timeless_w7ipwell, is $USER empty?15:43
crashanddie_v2px: export USER=`basename ~`15:43
timeless_w7ipand did you use sbox_adduser or whatever to add your user?15:43
lardmanhi chaps15:43
lardmananyone here used QJson?15:43
v2pxoh hm, i tried setting USER but this time it worked for some reason15:43
crashanddie_lardman: hey bru15:45
crashanddie_lardman: isn't it some run-off-the-mill JSon parser?15:46
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lardmanhi crashanddie_ , yeah I think so, just wondering if it will handle multiple root-level objects15:46
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lardmannot sure that's the right nomenclature either15:46
crashanddie_yeah, root objects in JSON15:47
lardmanhmm, actually I guess if you have multiple root level objects, they should be in an array anyway15:47
lardmanand from the look of the api they will be, damn my little netbook screen, was hard to tell the { and [ apart15:47
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lardmanI think "doh!" is a suitable response here ;)15:48
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crashanddie_what are you using JSON for?15:49
crashanddie_BTW, I'm getting the feeling JSON is the new XML/SOAP.15:49
lardmanam writing a house hunting app, and need to grab crime data to add to the mix15:49
crashanddie_looks like it's a map of root objects anyway15:50
lardmanan array is the root object I take it?15:50
SpeedEvillardman: #openstreetmap over on may have people with a clue15:50
DocScrutinizer(<MohammadAG> or if you're a gtk dev, use DocScrutinizer's suggestion  LD_PRELOAD a modified lib)  My suggestion improved, just for the protocol. I suggested to implement it as a gtk theme, and you can set themes per app afaik15:51
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lardmanSpeedEvil: thanks, I'll give this a go15:51
crashanddie_lardman: [ == map/array. { == object.15:51
lardmanHave already written the scraping code to grab the historical house price data, just need to find a site which also lists # bedrooms for the properties so I can add in extra info15:51
lardmanthen it's a case of analysis :)15:52
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lardmancrashanddie_: ah map is an array, I see15:52
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DocScrutinizerbtw I'd happily accept all buttons to go slider-style15:52
crashanddie_lardman: yeah, sorry, I wrote a JSON parser this week so I'm a bit messed-up with the in-house keywords we use in our language :P15:53
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lardmanI swear the spec writers just change keywords to confuse developers ;)15:54
DocScrutinizerand I think SHR already has such a slider button15:54
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crashanddie_lardman: sometimes I get angry at myself because I used stupid names/keywords in the spec I'm implementing days later...15:54
timeless_w7ipcrashandie: json is the replacement for xml as in soap, yeah15:55
timeless_w7ipit's a lot less verbose, but just as useful15:55
timeless_w7iptechnically soap has schema junk15:55
timeless_w7ipbut the reality is that it never worked15:55
timeless_w7ipand the impls were mostly incomplete/incorrect/incompatible15:55
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crashanddie_yeah, it works nicely. We're moving quite a few of our proprietary protocols to JSON where appropriate. We have SOAP interfaces, proprietary, and JSON...15:55
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timeless_w7ipmaemo it picked soap15:56
timeless_w7ipwhich is depressing because soap was already mostly dead by the time they did15:56
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crashanddie_well, SOAP is dead in consumer-space15:56
crashanddie_But in Enterprise, it's still going strong15:56
crashanddie_SOAP, in most cases, is still less broken than say... RMI...15:57
crashanddie_RMI gives you pain based on Java versions et all, which is just horrendous, but it's faster than SOAP15:57
DocScrutinizer(slider switches) look at mute, speaker:
crashanddie_IIRC, latest benchmarks I ran, SOAP was roughly 20-30% slower than RMI, which can be significant15:57
crashanddie_JSON is about 15% slower than our proprietary protocol, and about 10% faster than SOAP15:58
timeless_w7ipso json is slower than rmi?16:00
crashanddie_well, I haven't compared the two side by side16:00
crashanddie_but our protocol is roughly on par with RMI (maybe a tad faster, less than 10%), so...16:01
troulouliouhi does anybidy here have segfault with subversion ?16:04
troulouliouwhen i type subversion on my N900 i have segfault16:05
timeless_w7ip'subversion' or 'svn'? and which version of svn?16:05
timeless_w7ippersonally i don't use svn if i can avoid it16:06
timeless_w7ipsvn: REPORT of '/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: connection was closed by server.16:06
timeless_w7ipis my last runin w/ it of late16:06
timeless_w7ipoh joy16:06
timeless_w7ipsvn: Working copy '.' locked | svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details)16:06
trouloulioui mean the svn command inside the N90016:07
lardmananyone know whether QString.replace() allows you to replace one string with another, but only do it once?16:08
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* lardman heads into town to grab some lunch16:15
lardmancu chaps later on16:15
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GeneralAntilles"The MeeGo product is no direct N900 successor that much I can tell you as it has everything it takes for the style-conscious, always-connected enthusiast to love it."16:21
GeneralAntillesIt's going to suck so much.16:21
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timeless_w7ipthat's what makes it fun and exciting!16:27
timeless_w7ipall new16:27
timeless_w7ipnew bugs16:27
timeless_w7ipnew old bugs16:27
timeless_w7ipnew different ui16:27
timeless_w7ipnew confusing ui metaphors16:27
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merlin1991GeneralAntilles: where's that quote coming from?16:28
jonwilI bet that this meego product will have less features than the N90016:29
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jonwiland it wont have any of the features the N900 is missing16:29
Lava_Croftjonwil: great story16:29
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Lava_Croftbashing meego is very productive16:29
jonwilI am not trying to bash MeeGo, just be realistic based on how little Nokia seems to care about Linux since the Windows announcement16:30
jonwilthey are releasing one "product" for MeeGo (that may not even be a phone as such)16:30
timeless_w7iplava: it is!16:30
timeless_w7ipsetting low expectations is vey important to success16:30
jonwilwhich will get even less post-release support than the N900 got16:30
timeless_w7ipit's much easier to exceed low expectations than to attain high expectations :)16:31
pupawayif you are sort of useful you can get meego running on the 1ghz omap3 archos 7.0 right now16:31
timeless_w7ipjonwil: i believe that's "one meego related device"16:31
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I hate to say I toldya16:31
timeless_w7ipi don't think we've actually claimed it'd be a product :)16:31
timeless_w7ipit might be possible for us to literally ship <one> unit and fulfill our promise :)16:32
jonwilregardless of what Nokia may do, I am still glad I bought the N90016:33
jonwilNokia have released a cellphone that is more open than any other 3G cellphone to date16:33
timeless_w7ipi'm still depressed that i didn't expense an n900 corporate phone :(16:33
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: unreflected meego fanboyism also doesn't help16:34
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer: but im not a meego fanboi16:34
Lava_Croftif saying that bashing meego is unproductive makes me a fanboy16:34
Lava_Croftthen be it16:34
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Lava_Croftat least im not in the silly process of bashing an unreleased product16:34
jonwilThe N900 is certainly more open than any Android phone to date, even the Nexus One/Nexus S16:34
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: and jonwil's assumption is quite well based on what we heard about harmattan and meego handset ux so far16:34
Lava_Croftspeculation for the win16:34
APTXfanboy, fanboy16:35
Lava_Croftbut dont let me stop you16:35
Lava_Croftat least bashing meego might make the maemo failure look better16:35
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: bashing a released product is way more silly than criticism during development16:35
jonwiland unlike HTC and Motorola and other vendors in the Android space, Nokia doesn't violate the GPL or withhold code16:35
Lava_CroftDocScrutinizer: not from the end-user perspective16:35
DocScrutinizerwho here is an end user?? ;-P16:36
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DocScrutinizermaybe that's what the meego gods want us to be, endusers of their brilliant inventions16:36
jonwilNot only that, there is someone currently at Nokia (qgill) looking into the possibility of releasing even more N900 code16:36
DocScrutinizerthat's not going to happen16:37
Lava_Croftat least its reassuring to see that this community is mostly like any open source community16:37
jonwilhavent heard if that discussion has gone anywhere or if its still ongoing though16:37
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Lava_Croftwhich means it consists out of bashing the supposed opposition instead of trying to better yourself16:37
timeless_w7ipdocscrutinizer: afaict the target audience for product n+1 is generally picked to be distinct from product n16:37
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jonwilthe other thing about the N900 is that the hardware is the most documented of any 3G cellphone, making porting alternative OSs to it easier16:38
jonwildocumented in the sense of the code being there16:38
jonwile.g. ofono16:38
DocScrutinizerdamn, where he went? I was about to kick him for trolling16:38
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jonwilAnyone know which bug or forum or mailing list or other item I should follow if I want to see any results that come out of what qgill is doing?16:40
jonwili.e. should anything happen, where will it happen?16:41
SpeedEviljonwil: Leaked schematics and stuff hep a fair chunk too.16:42
jonwilleaked schematics are available for plenty of other cellphones16:42
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jonwilThe other plus about the N900 is that its the only phone that even pretends to be open that has a landscape qwerty keyboard16:45
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jonwilAll the others are touchscreen only AFAIK16:45
jonwilFreerunner, Nexus One, Nexus S etc16:45
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DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: btw the most silly thing is to talk about meego as a 'product to release', as that in itself makes meego a major fail - it's supposed to be *developed* in public, and so bashing it at any state of development is perfectly valid, while suggesting a "wait til it gets released" is mere bullsh*t16:47
Lava_Croftim sorry, im already bored of you16:47
Lava_Croftalready had like 10000123543215214351432521435431524135143 of your kind in the past years16:48
Lava_Croftbut you can write me an email if you like, and put everything you want to share with me in there16:48
DocScrutinizerwell, we had like 17.3 trolls like you in this channel, and most of them were more funny16:48
Lava_Croftyeah, im the one trolling here16:48
Lava_Croftim sorry for not bashing meego16:48
Lava_Crofti should know better than not to bash the other options16:49
Lava_Croftbut even after all these years, i still cant get myself to do it16:49
Lava_Croftim not the type to join a channel belonging to a linux distro and then go about bashing some other distro16:49
Lava_Crofti believe in making myself better by improvement, not by bashing the other16:49
Lava_Croftlet's leave it at that, i think we both have better things to do16:49
Lava_Croftand more productive too!16:50
DocScrutinizerthat's all to your liking, bit please refrain from blaming and educating others here16:50
DocScrutinizerit's perfectly OK to have a different opinion than even Nokia employees that state about meego development and what they think it will result in, it's not OK to blame them for not sharing your take on it16:52
DocScrutinizeror call them silly, for this particular case16:52
Lava_Croftit's not ok to bash stuff16:52
Lava_Croftyou can also quit now, since you will not get through to me with your probably very important truth16:53
Lava_Crofti cannot be helped16:53
DocScrutinizerok, you want a kick for bashing jonwill?16:53
Lava_Croftgo threaten me16:53
Lava_Croftpeople that want action just take action16:53
Lava_Croftthey dont go about threatening folks16:53
Lava_Croftif you think that you can impress me this way, it's not really working16:53
Lava_Croftit's actually making your point a lot less valid16:53
Lava_Croftill go do something productive now16:54
Lava_Croftlike bash ubuntu16:54
DocScrutinizerLava_Croft: I'm trying to keep this channel friendly. My feeling is it's you who is bringing unfriendly moods in here. So this is my first warning16:54
Lava_Croftyeah, bashing meego is fine16:54
Lava_Croftbut calling the bashing silly is being unfriendly16:55
Lava_Croftinfalliable logic16:55
Lava_Croftjust kick me if you feel the need16:55
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Lava_Croftor dont if you dont feel the need16:55
Lava_Croftbut dont go threaten16:55
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DocScrutinizerping me if you think you can stop bitching16:55
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DocScrutinizer(slide to answer) >>But you can go further than that. You can actually modify your application logic while the program is running ...  ***Allows modification of the properties for any widget.*** <<
RST38hSo, what is new and exciting? Bankrupcies? Anyone important died? In a suicide?17:05
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RST38hDoc: Meego should adopt the graphics style they chose for the logo =)17:06
* DocScrutinizer moo's at RST38h17:06
pupaway  japan before/after pics17:12
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RST38hAh, I was going to postthat :)17:14
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Next time, I'd suggest raising a bug of suitably high priority, and adding, & to the CC.17:18
DocScrutinizerJaffa: regarding what?17:18
JaffaDocScrutinizer: If it isn't quickly acted on, the Council can forward it on to Nemein support17:18
DocScrutinizerinfra down?17:18
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Server outage (that seemed to be what your ping was about)17:19
DocScrutinizeryep, thanks17:19
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DocScrutinizerJaffa: how's council elections progress?17:23
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, feel like running for council?17:25
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lcuki nearly submitted a nomination for you DocScrutinizer17:26
troulouliouhi can anybody help me in repartitionning the flash ? i m afraid of loosing my /home17:27
lcukDocScrutinizer, but then I thought of how you would rage17:27
DocScrutinizeryou woudn't want me in council17:27
lcukwho else could be nominated though17:28
DocScrutinizerI know I'm not a polite and nice guy :-)17:28
lcukhave the current council given nominations or been nominated again?17:28
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lcukhey penguinbait \o17:28
RST38hlet us nominate abilluk!17:28
RST38hand yss too17:29
lcuktry it17:29
lcukit might have effect of convincing others to stand17:29
penguinbaithey lcuk!!17:30
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'll call you Machiavelli now17:31
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RST38hmoo javispedro17:36
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javispedroso, how's the newly formed abill_uk maemo council?17:47
alteregoHah, what?17:47
RST38hThey have decided to petition Steve Jobs to port iOS to N900.17:47
alteregoI must have missed that.17:47
chxi am sure stevie would just love to that......17:50
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alteregoHave I missed some hilarious tmo pthread or something?17:53
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lcukalterego, it was just mentioned up there before you entered ^^17:56
lcuk<RST38h> let us nominate abilluk!17:56
lcuk<RST38h> and yss too17:56
lcuk<lcuk> try it17:56
lcuk<lcuk> it might have effect of convincing others to stand17:56
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alteregoNot enough people interested in being council members?17:58
alteregoWell, this isn't good ..17:58
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jacktheripperwhat's the difference between a regional and a global firmware ?17:59
pupawayanybody want me to nominate them?18:01
Jaffapupaway: Anyone can put themselves forward18:02
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: Status:
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alteregoThe council is probably more important now than it has ever been18:03
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Jaffaalterego: Agreed18:04
wazdJaffa: you're the only one who haven't checked out CSSU icon :)18:05
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alteregoI'm not council material, I'd run if I realy thought I could offer anything18:06
DocScrutinizerJaffa: is there a sticky thread on TMO? if not, why?18:07
pupawayJapan: Shinmoedake Volcano erupts
RST38hmaterial, shmaterial, who cares?18:07
RST38hpupnik: oh, volcano too???18:07
DocScrutinizerohnoes, poor Japan18:07
RST38hearthquake. tsunami. nuclear meltdown. volcano. <fill the blank>18:08
Jaffawazd: I did, I said "nice". Like it very much.18:08
RST38hYou know who is going to be in that blank, right?18:08
JaffaDocScrutinizer: There should be. Although, IMHO, there are too many sticky threads in the _Community_ forum.18:09
DocScrutinizerDeities must have decided to erase Japan from earths surface18:09
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: meteor?18:09
RST38hno, of course not18:09
RST38hthe meteor is from a different movie18:09
JaffaDocScrutinizer: I dunno, tho', since I've not had chance to check TMO all week.18:10
wazdJaffa: ah, cool :)18:10
DocScrutinizerJaffa: me neither18:10
javispedrosomeone already said on slashdot "just evacuate the entire island and let it sink!"18:10
DocScrutinizerJaffa: the odd thing is tmo obviously is seeing much broader audience18:11
JaffaDocScrutinizer: There are many people in the Council who were elected because of their ability to be non-technical, "end-user" focused and TMO active.18:11
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JaffaDocScrutinizer: RevdKathy should be able to do it, for example.18:12
DocScrutinizerso one of the most noble duties of council is to care about next term. I'd suggest those members go starting a massive advertising on tmo - if not done already18:12
javispedroRST38h: godzilla.18:12
RST38hJaffa: This once again forces me to ask: "What are the real tangible results of the current council work?"18:12
RST38hjavispedro: But of course!18:12
RST38hJaffa: And if there are none, why do we need the council?18:13
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JaffaRST38h: I've answered this before.18:13
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Agreed18:14
alteregoWe need the council more than ever now, to continue to plan a migration strategy for if/when Nokia walk away from maemo.org18:14
lcukRST38h, I would like to know the CSSU is in good hands and that our N900s will continue to be great devices for many people.18:14
DocScrutinizerJaffa: If it weren't that silly, I'd say nobody may leave council until (s)he found a next tenant for own position18:14
RST38hlcuk: The CSSU is not being developed by the council. It is being developed by individuals.18:15
lcukRST38h, it helps to bring focus, the CSSU core developers are one subset, to rally the testers and communicate about the additions and changes and to ensure the user experience is actually improved is important18:16
alteregoYeah, I don't think there's any council involvement in CSSU currently.18:16
RST38hDunno, I have not seen the council doing that18:16
pupawayalterego: isn't smoku's project the thing to do?18:16
lcukRST38h, do you think they could though?18:17
RST38hlcuk: No, I do not think they could.18:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: council are moderators and editors in some way. look at to see part of what they are doing all the time18:17
RST38hDoc: What part of this page should I specifically look at?18:18
lcukRST38h, also, the current council have been involved in CSSU btw18:18
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RST38hlcuk: How?18:19
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: e-g by making the hosting on those servers happen, if not anything else?18:20
Jaffaalterego: Thanks. I'll sod off then.18:20
RST38hDoc: AFAIK, the hosting is being handled by Nokia employees and contractors responsible for maemo.org18:20
* javispedro could see a smaller council.18:20
RST38hDoc:And even without that, one could simply create a thirdparty repo on his own18:21
DocScrutinizerI said make it happen, not do it18:21
lcukRST38h, jaffa has been implicit in the CSSU and has been involved in many of the conversations and discussions between Nokia people and the maemo infrastructure18:21
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Jaffaalterego: The Council a) provides the empowerment to give MohammadAG the repos on and say "*this* is official"; b) I wouldn't've been so bothered about doing the wiki pages, bug triaging, communication and repeatedly asking the same questions on TMO if I wasn't on the council.18:22
lcukhis advice, thoughts and feedback into the process have helped connect the dots between the code and actually trying to turn it into an SSU18:22
Jaffalcuk: s/implicit/explicit/, please :-p18:22
alteregoJaffa: oh, I didn't realise there are official repos now :P18:22
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DocScrutinizerMy take on the council isn't about voluntary coding work or anything similar, the council has to have a comprehensive idea what's going on both in Nokia and community, and advocate between those and of course inside community18:22
Jaffaalterego: The CSSU, since launch, has been on maemo.org18:22
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Thank you.18:23
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lcukJaffa, apologies, I am merely trying to point out the good work you have done to date :)18:23
alteregoI've been quite distracted away from maemo recently and have mainly been working in meego, so I'm sorry, I must be behind on these developments :P18:23
JaffaRST38h: Since you've never seen the value of the Council, your question is loaded.18:23
alteregoI was under the impression it was hosted by mohammed18:23
alteregoObviously I am wrong :P18:23
Jaffaalterego: No. There was a prototype which was.18:24
alteregoYes, I see t hat now, I'm just a little out of date :)18:24
JaffaAnyway, the meme "all the coding is done by MohammadAG" is also wrong. There are patches from me, thp, Sc0rpius and others all included.18:24
RST38hJaffa: If I had seen the value,I would not ask though18:25
alteregoI know that there are a fair few contributors :P18:25
Jaffaalterego: Indeed, it was a general comment ;-)18:25
JaffaRST38h: Then you're missing the point.18:26
RST38hMight be, although not receiving a concise response to my question bother me.18:28
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you got shitloads of answers18:29
DocScrutinizerthe most short one now: council = TSG18:29
JaffaRST38h: Some things this term: sponsored participants to MeeGo Conference with a Maemo background, liaising with Forum Nokia on Qt updates in Extras-devel, CSSU, ownership, liaising with Nokia on further license change requests, ...18:29
RST38h#define liasising18:30
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RST38hAs I understand,"maemo.orgownership"is not really an activity18:31
RST38hThe CSSU stuff is done by concrete people, none of whom are council people18:31
MohammadAGJaffa, I never take credit for something I didn't do, you probably know that :)18:31
JaffaRST38h: Fuck off. I'm a council person and I'm involved in the CSSU18:31
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RST38hSponsoring conference participants I can understand and welcome, although I am a bit unclear about where money came from18:32
DocScrutinizerRST38h: so what? which part of Technical Steering Group was it that's so hard to understand?18:32
RST38hThis leaves the "liasing" thing, so what does it mean?18:32
JaffaRST38h: And, as I said above, I did things which don't directly scratch my itches because of Council membership18:32
RST38hDoc:Part where the council does actual steering18:32
MohammadAGI sense an argument of some sort around here?18:32
* MohammadAG goes back to idling18:32
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JaffaRST38h: The money came from the MeeGo project, why does it matter where the money came from?18:32
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JaffaMohammadAG: Yes, it's not worth your time. Nor, for that matter, mine. Goes off to spend time with kids.18:33
RST38hJaffa: Because if the Meego project sponsors a few maemo people for the conference, then the Meego project should take credit for that, right?18:33
DocScrutinizerRST38h: you're really playing stupid here :-/18:34
MohammadAGJaffa, I just try to avoid arguments, whether they waste time or not, unless I'm the one who "started" or caused it18:34
JaffaRST38h: The MeeGo project wanted to sponsor people who were involved in the MeeGo project. We argued that people from the parent communities should be involved as "potential" (and past) contributors. Then, one of the council (specifically me) was involved in the decision making committee.18:35
JaffaUsing the same model that the Maemo Community Council used for the Amsterdam summit.18:35
DocScrutinizerand that's *exactly* what council is all about. Not about contributing patches to CSSU18:36
DocScrutinizercouncil isn't a beauty contest of the most productive coders or whatever you seem to consider it18:38
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alteregoI'd be happy if the council weren't even programmers :)18:38
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MohammadAGI wouldn't be happy if abill_uk was a member18:39
troulouliouhi i m trying to resize my flash without reflash ; when i copy from /home to mmc i have to preserve the file rights no ?18:39
MohammadAGcp -a does that for you18:39
troulouliouha ok18:39
MohammadAGanyway, use the MeeGo initrd image and gparted18:39
MohammadAGit makes resizing piss easy18:39
troulouliouand symlinks ....18:40
MohammadAGwhat about them? you're changing the partition table, not the files18:40
troulouliouyou have a link ?18:40
DocScrutinizerI'd not. Council need a lot of knowledge about system architecture and coding tools and practices to maintain a comprehensive understanding of what's going on where and how to make things fit together nicely18:40
DocScrutinizeralterego: ^^^18:40
MohammadAG <-- quite awesome18:40
MohammadAGI have another partition on my eMMC for MeeGo18:40
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: cp -a doesn't help when copying a ext2/3 to vfat18:41
MohammadAGvfat needs to die18:41
MohammadAGvfat can't store permissions, it's not cp's fault :P18:41
alteregoDocScrutinizer: fair point18:43
alteregoI guess a good overview of how things are done around here is important.18:43
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njsfDarn, N900 failed to update the clock on todays DST transition18:48
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troulouliouMohammadAG: in your link ; emmc is the full mmcblk0 not only Mydocs right ?18:48
njsfwas not a failure of the provider either. after I rebooted the N900 the clock was right. it seems it just did not update the clock if the signal was not lost or something?18:49
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DocScrutinizernjsf: I think maemo doesn't correctly manage automatic switching of DST. BTW where is DST switched today?18:50
MohammadAGtroulouliou, yes18:51
troulouliouMohammadAG: and flasher won't remove any file is is just an util to reboot on a different kernel18:51
troulouliouyes looks pisssed easy then :)18:52
DocScrutinizerat least here18:52
MohammadAGas I said :)18:52
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DocScrutinizerhas anybody updated the broken link on that page?18:53
trouloulioudon'l like to install gparted on my system but will do it temporary then18:53
DocScrutinizernjsf: weird US18:53
njsfyes, they advanced it for 2 weeks18:54
njsfbut what I was surprised with was the fact that it did not pickup the DST change from the provider18:54
DocScrutinizerso how should maemo know about that?18:55
njsflike the throw away phones do18:55
njsfDocScrutinizer it should take hint from the time the cell gives it18:55
njsfsince I have that checked18:55
njsfeither that or then _do_ NTP18:55
DocScrutinizerit does, but sometimes not on boot18:55
njsfit _only_ did on boot18:56
DocScrutinizerswitching to tablet mode and back usually helps18:56
DocScrutinizernjsf: nah, carrier is sending time with registration AIUI18:56
njsfno really caring about what "should help"18:56
njsfthen I was just unlucky by having consistent carrier connection ? :)18:57
DocScrutinizersomewhat, yes18:57
njsfwouldn't the N900 get it on transition from 2.5-3-3.5 G ?18:57
njsfI saw it transition18:57
njsfand no time update18:58
timeless_w7ipnjsf: err18:58
DocScrutinizerit should get time when T3212 reregistration timer expires18:58
timeless_w7ipdid you check the box asking for automatic time updates?18:58
MohammadAGtroulouliou, on your PC of course18:58
njsfas for the N900 "knowing", there should probably be a tz update from CSS ?18:58
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ShadowJKIt varies between operators how and when they send time. My other operator only sends on establishing hew gprs connection18:59
njsftimeless_w7ip: _of course_ otherwise I would not be talking about it18:59
timeless_w7ipyou'd be surprised18:59
DocScrutinizernjsf: on boot however, I've seen registration on GSM just being "too fast" so it gets lost in halfway init18:59
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ShadowJKI was angry for half a month when N900 kept "unlocking itself". Turned out I had "lock automatically" unticked :x19:00
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njsfIs there any package that adds ntp already ?19:00
DocScrutinizernjsf: or too slow, or whatever19:00
njsfDocScrutinizer ok got it.19:00
troulouliouMohammadAG:  the file in your link ( initrd and kernel are out of date) can i use the latest one or i should pick those from archive.meego ?19:00
DocScrutinizeryes, there's ntp pkg. It's not really optimized for random connectivity devices like mobile phones19:01
MohammadAGcourse you could use the latest ones19:01
ShadowJKI wouldn't run openntp, it would be a significant impact on battery life19:01
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derfopenntpd craps all over itself when the network connection goes down.19:01
njsfDocScrutinizer what do you mean by not optimized for random connectivity ? it will cause new internet connections to be established ?19:02
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derfAnd never re-establishes sync until you restart it.19:02
njsfah ok thanks derf19:02
njsfthat is weird, because regular ntp is kinda resilient to that19:02
ShadowJKalso it polls every 64s always, doesn't it?19:02
derfNo, I have a cronjob restart it every day even on my desktop for the same reason.19:02
DocScrutinizernjsf: go for a "cronjob" calling ntpdate every 6 hours or somesuch19:03
ShadowJKwell... if you compare ntp and openntp, openntp is a joke19:03
njsfDocScrutinizer, good idea, I have alarmed installed19:03
njsfI suspect that is why you quoted "cronjob"19:03
troulouliouDoes anybidy here have a segfault error when they use subversion ?19:06
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timeless_w7ip <- sanity!19:11
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njsfwhat is the package name / repos where ntp is ?19:32
njsfdpkg-query -l *ntp returns zilch19:32
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DocScrutinizerwell, facebook/twitter + automatic tagging of faces by ever-getting-smarter recognition technologies = 1984 big brother on a commercial basis rather than a authority-driven one19:33
RST38hyou do not want that19:33
RST38hcredit card transactions + accounting all RFIDs currently used for goods storage and security = PROFIT19:34
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RST38hyour face is really not that important, and neither is your facebook/twitter drivel :)19:34
ZogGRST38h what is thea new thing they added to nexus S19:35
ZogGNFC or something19:35
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: when everybody and his mad dog is taking photos of me walking down the street and uploads it to twitter for letting everybody know what she's doing atm, then it is19:39
njsfDocScrutinizer do you have the name of the ntpdate package?19:41
njsfcan't find it through apt-get or dpkg-query19:41
DocScrutinizernjsf: I'm afraid there's none for maemo19:41
javispedrontpdate was depreciated iirc19:41
DocScrutinizeryup, a pity19:41
njsf(1:01:14 PM) DocScrutinizer: yes, there's ntp pkg. It's not really optimized for random connectivity devices like mobile phones19:42
javispedro*deprecated ;P19:42
MohammadAGNear Field Communication19:42
njsfah ok19:42
MohammadAGa concept that'll take at least 10 years to be in Israel19:42
njsfwhat was the reason ?19:42
javispedronjsf: you can use ntpd -q or something like that19:42
njsfIs it worthwhile I try to package it ?19:42
javispedronjsf: it will run ntp for a few minutes then die.19:42
njsfthen where can I find ntpd ?19:43
njsfalso not finding it19:43
DocScrutinizernjsf: I'd much appreciate that. ntpdate is poorly replaced by ntpd19:43
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njsfthanks javispedro19:44
DocScrutinizeractually I think that deprecation was a failure19:44
javispedrofor quick syncs plain rdate is a better protocol either way ;)19:44
DocScrutinizerntpd doesn't support/replace all the fuctions of ntpdate19:45
javispedrobut depending on how much in a hurry you are it is "good enough". not to mention it is way more precise than ntpdate.19:47
RST38hDoc: Yes, maybe, but consider this19:47
njsfok got it installed, I guess I am good for now. thanks all19:48
RST38hDoc: You walk that street, and a little metal box at a nearest lamppost registers the UIDs of you coat, your shoes, your cell phone, your dog's collar, and the dogfood your dog has eaten for lunch19:48
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RST38hDoc: this data gets checked against purchase records andmatched to your CC which is matched to your name and residential address19:49
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RST38hDoc: no images ever enter this chain19:49
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* javispedro curses19:54
javispedrolibc debug symbols don't match the actual pr1.3 library19:54
javispedrodespite the same debian package version..19:55
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: moot points. Nobody should deprecate a tool for a inferior alternative. I am missing a way to just *display* the ntp server's time to compare it to my local sysclock, rather than actually setting it19:57
dm8tbranother problem solved ;)19:58
pupnikNFC isn't exactly cool as a framework for mesh communication between users19:59
lcukpupnik, depends how much info you can pass by making phones high 519:59
kerioZFC is much better20:00
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: in case you missed sth: >>20:00
DocScrutinizerhalley:/media # ntpdate --help20:00
DocScrutinizer       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!20:00
DocScrutinizerThe ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To quote the upstream ntp developers:  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."20:00
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: cute, I'd just disable that output though :)20:00
DocScrutinizerthat's not cute, that's a lie20:01
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DocScrutinizeras evidently (or I'm mistaken) ntpd does NOT completely replace ntpdate20:01
DocScrutinizersee the post you answered to20:01
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dm8tbrmhm, there are not really that many cases where you are interested in the offset and dont' want to set your clock though20:02
DocScrutinizerthat's not friggin up to anybody else to decide for me20:03
DocScrutinizerand you failing to know about usecases where I'm interested in a correct time without messing with my local system time inevitably - doesn't mean there aren't any20:05
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dm8tbrmind you I didn't say there "aren't any"20:09
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DocScrutinizerwhatever, it's an absolute failure of devels to deprecate ntpdate without taking care about a complete replacement that doesn't lack functionality of the deprecated program20:10
DocScrutinizerthis is true for any tool, and absolutely unrelated to usecases, particularly of ntpdate20:11
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MohammadAGcan any mobile other than the N900 focus in video?20:17
MohammadAGa 12MP cam in the N8, gone to waste for lack of macro20:17
MohammadAGand I can't film the N900 with the N90020:18
DocScrutinizerohmy *sigh*20:18
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: "there are not really that many cases where you are interested in filming macro"20:19
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MohammadAGI even tried low light in the event it'd focus on the N90020:20
MohammadAG(fixed focus)20:20
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timeless_w7ipdoc: didn't nokia put up a show of doing macro w/ a bunch of phones?20:21
DocScrutinizertimeless_w7ip: nfc20:22
MohammadAGfor photos, yes20:22
MohammadAGfor videos, not so much20:22
alteregoYeah, macro video isn't particularly normal use case ..20:23
MohammadAGstill, a nice feature to have20:23
MohammadAGit is a camera phone after all20:23
DocScrutinizerI'm just noticing the original unix spirit as e.g found in toolbox design principles is going oblivion more and more these days20:24
MohammadAGI have a sony handy cam, which shoots video with manual focus20:24
MohammadAGbut it saves crap to a DVD, so I cba20:24
MohammadAGThe N8 needs a new campaign20:25
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MohammadAGIt's not the megapixels, it's what you do with them20:25
DocScrutinizerrather you see more and more apps/tools designed for one particular purpose and trying to outsmart the user20:26
DocScrutinizerwhich is what a all learnt to hate M$ for20:27
DocScrutinizers/ a / we /20:27
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: which is what we all learnt to hate M$ for20:27
* timeless_w7ip likes MS20:27
timeless_w7ipand that's not a Nokia thing20:27
timeless_w7ipthey might not have a Don't Be Evil mantra20:27
timeless_w7ipbut their business practices aren't stupid20:28
timeless_w7ipunlike some companies20:28
timeless_w7ipAnd they make good Tools20:28
timeless_w7ipAnd have good support20:28
timeless_w7ipunlike some companies20:28
DocScrutinizerbusiness considerations tend to fuck up OS architecture20:28
* timeless_w7ip ponders20:28
timeless_w7ipNot necessarily20:28
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timeless_w7ipI mean, sure, if you're Nokia, they might20:28
timeless_w7ipbut I don't think Sun's architecture was fucked up due to business considerations20:29
timeless_w7ipwhat was fucked up was their revenue stream20:29
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DocScrutinizeranyway, bbl20:29
* DocScrutinizer ->dinner20:29
timeless_w7ipAnd I don't think IBM's OS/2 or other OS's had bad architecture due to business considerations20:29
timeless_w7ipagian, they had bad marketting20:29
timeless_w7ipMS has even done a reasonable job in that category20:30
timeless_w7ipagian, unlike some companies20:30
timeless_w7ipbut yeah, i like that dinner idea20:30
timeless_w7ipAs for choosing to support existing software20:30
timeless_w7ipApple does it, Microsoft does it, Sun/Oracle do it20:31
timeless_w7ipthe only group that doesn't is Linux20:31
timeless_w7ipthat doesn't make Linux well architected20:31
timeless_w7ipit makes Linux fluid20:31
timeless_w7ipwith the ability to say "we changed our mind, we're going to do something else"20:31
timeless_w7ipit also means that Linux is under no obligation to think things out in advance and try to get it right the first or second or third time20:32
timeless_w7ipwhereas a business which actually has to support things after they ship does try to get things right sooner20:32
timeless_w7ipas the cost of failing to do so is much higher20:32
timeless_w7ipfeel free to ask Symbian about the cost of failing to get things right...20:34
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MohammadAG3 billion in R&D?20:34
timeless_w7ipAnd a dev base which curses every time it tries to do anything20:34
MohammadAGSymbian can do good things20:35
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MohammadAGI mean, it's the reason I joined!20:35
timeless_w7ipsymbian has way too many poorly designed (hah) overlapping apis20:35
timeless_w7ipand a coding style which people learned to hate (and hated to learn)20:36
MohammadAGit made me hate C++20:36
timeless_w7ipi actually like its principles but no one else does20:36
javispedrowhat principles20:36
MohammadAGI wanted to try C++ three years ago20:36
MohammadAGCarbide C++ didn't make it enjoyable20:36
javispedroif you're talking about being microkernelish, I'm in....20:36
timeless_w7ipallocate objects carefully, check for failure, use init methods, properly release20:36
MohammadAGI'm surprised how many iOS apps segfault tbh20:37
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timeless_w7ipjavispedro: i'n quite willing to assume that the symbian kernel doesn't suck20:37
infobottimeless_w7ip meant: javispedro: i'm quite willing to assume that the symbian kernel doesn't suck20:37
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* RST38h prays to the Tentacled One20:41
MohammadAGwho's the tentacled one?20:42
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javispedrohave mercy upon MohammadAG 's soul.20:43
* MohammadAG wonders why he hated QML - besides it being interpreted20:43
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RST38hThe canonical image of the Tentacled One, explaining specifics of OS kernel design to a salaried software engineer.20:44
zeltakhya guys. anyone knows of a widget to quickly change profiles? can find a quick way to do so20:46
lcukMohammadAG, n900 video focusing is great, but you have to give it something to focus on - it can do spectacular results20:46
lcukidk how you did not get yours focused for that video!20:47
timeless_xchatiirc qml can be compiled...20:49
MohammadAGlcuk, that's an N820:49
lcukthat explains it :P20:49
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MohammadAGRST38h, reminds me of south park20:49
BCMMzeltak: what's the matter with the default one? too many clicks?20:50
timeless_xchatzeltak: what do you mean by profiles?20:50
BCMMzeltak: if you want a one-tap toggle between general and silent, use the switcher on the power key menu20:50
timeless_xchatthere's an addon that lets you add tablet mode to the power menu too fwiw20:51
zeltakBCMM: , timeless_xchat thx. and yes using the default one is to many clicks for someone lazy as me :)20:53
zeltaktimeless_xchat: what is tablet mode?20:53
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timeless_xchattwo clicks is too lazy?20:54
MohammadAGno, it's one press and a click, there's a difference!20:54
timeless_xchatyou spend 99% of your time at the home screen instead of using an app?20:54
zeltakwell in 'normal mode' i have to click the task bar>click the profile icon>choose the profle and press done20:54
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timeless_xchattablet mode turns off the GSM radio20:55
timeless_xchatzeltak : err20:55
timeless_xchatpress the power key20:55
timeless_xchatthe thing that you use to turn *on* your n90020:55
zeltakusing the 2 click option with the power menu is not bad but dosent work with profilex as far as i can tell20:55
zeltakyeah got that , thats a cool trick20:55
timeless_xchatwtf is profileX?20:56
zeltakonly issue it dosent work with proflex (custom proflies)20:56
timeless_xchatand see my note about tablet mode20:56
timeless_xchatthe menu is fully pluggable20:56
zeltakkk cool thx guys for the tips :)20:56
timeless_xchatso it sounds like you should ask proflex to plug it20:56
zeltakyeah good idea :)20:56
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javispedrofscking arm stack alignment20:58
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norayr!seen trx20:58
zeltakbtw does anyone know if there is screen or tmux for the n900?20:58
ShadSECzeltak, there is screen on the tools repository, it is not optified, but other than that it works great (for me)21:00
timeless_xchatwhy would you want screen?21:00
timeless_xchatjust use ssh+screen21:00
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DocScrutinizerzeltak: use queenbeecon buttons and execute a dbus-send cmd to set the profile of your choice21:05
DocScrutinizeror add several custom menu items of your own design and function to the power-menu21:07
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zeltaksounds cool thx21:13
zeltakShadSEC: what do you mean not optified btw?21:14
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zeltakDocScrutinizer: can you point me to the documentation on how to chnage profiles through dbus?21:15
DocScrutinizerit means it's installed to /usr/bin, not to /opt21:15
DocScrutinizerthus eating space on rootfs which is a rare and precious resource21:16
DocScrutinizerzeltak: sure21:16
ShadSECzeltak, it takes around 1MB of root filesystem... but you can symlink main binary to other place21:16
zeltaksure thx21:16
DocScrutinizeroptification is sth you can do yourself21:16
DocScrutinizeror add to the optification setiup21:17
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zeltakcool thx DocScrutinizer21:18
DocScrutinizerfor optification check /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf21:20
DocScrutinizeror ask lcuk ;-D21:21
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DocScrutinizeralso read all about optification at :21:22
ShadSECDocScrutinizer, oh... is that a new feature or it was always there? :S21:22
infobotoptification is probably a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence321:22
DocScrutinizerShadSEC: NFC21:23
DocScrutinizercdate here is 2010-04-1521:24
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ShadSECfirst time I see that file... I was happy just mv/ln'ing the offenders, but that its pretty interesting, thx!21:24
MohammadAGthe iPhone has rootfs on eMMC21:25
MohammadAG(if it's an eMMC anyway)21:25
ShadSECDocScrutinizer, yep, and I have just checked it is in the backup I did before flashing PR1.3.... :S21:31
javispedroah, this reminds me.21:31
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you're so going to love this:
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javispedroread the second quote.21:32
kpomanagain hi all :)21:32
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I hope you recognize the guy behind it ;)21:32
kpomanI managed to install nitdroid/gingerbread, it works fine but very slow form a microsd class 4, I want now to install on eMMC, I need to repartition /home to more than 2GB. I read a method using backupmenu and then mounting it on a linux box and using gparted or whatever. However backupmenu refuses to install ! Why ???21:33
kpomanbackupmenu: Depends: bootmenu-n900 but it is not going to be installed21:33
Sc0rpiusit's slow with a Class 6 too21:33
Sc0rpiusit's slow even if you run it from memory21:33
Sc0rpiusit's slow, period.  Not for everyday use yet,.21:34
lcukgingerbread is good with milk.21:34
kpomanSc0rpius: I heard from emmc it is much faster really21:34
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lcukand a crisp tasty apple for afterwards :)21:34
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kpomanplease someone give me a tip ! just want to install backupmenu on a multiboot configuration !21:35
kpomanhelp !21:35
* lcuk noted Tracy brought home an apply corer today21:35
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* timeless_xchat prefers yogurt 21:37
ShadSECHave anyone been able to do a fragmentation attack using lxp injection drivers? I am starting to think it is definitely not possible21:45
ShadSECmaybe do to it using mac8021121:46
jacktheripperkpoman, you could try this instead of backupmenu -> (If it's not too complicated)21:48
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: JESUS HELP ALL OF US! with developers like lennart and  mezcalero messing with system init and FHS, the future of linux is *bright* for sure21:48
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: some good news though: mezcalero and lennart are the same, so there's only one of them!21:49
javispedromezcalero is his IRC nick or something21:51
lolcatjavispedro: He fryed his cpu?21:52
lolcatJust asking21:53
lolcatWhat happened to mezxalero?21:53
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javispedrosee above linkie21:54
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GAN900Does semi-serious rude unpleasentness really pass for humor in Ottawa. . . .22:03
kpomanjacktheripper: I dont want to reflash my phone ! that is why I would like to do solution #822:04
jacktheripperkpoman, you don't reflash your phone. flasher only boots the phone with a meego kernel temporarily (when you reboot, nothing is changed)22:05
jacktheripperkpoman, sol #8 might be easier though, when you figure out your problem22:05
kpomanjacktheripper: Im on ubuntu and dont have a package called flasher !22:06
kpomanthey say to install flash 3.5 ... what is that ?22:06
DocScrutinizerGAN900: Ottawa?22:08
jacktheripperit's the program that's used to flash your phone, or in this case make it boot the kernel22:08
kpomanjacktheripper: where do I get it for ubuntu ?22:09
MohammadAGnicolai outdid himself again
MohammadAGI love the press T to turn on flash feature22:10
DocScrutinizerkpoman: multiboot and backupmenu conflict. I told you about multiboot being borked to the bone, and best to avoid it (and avoid nitdroid same thought)22:10
kpomanyep I am there but which package ?22:10
kpomanDocScrutinizer: yep sure but I really wanted to give nitdroid a try ! I did, it worked, but damn slow on microsd22:10
jacktheripperkpoman, maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2_i386.deb22:10
DocScrutinizerkpoman: it doesn't change the major fail that is multiboot, and especially uninstalling it22:11
kpomanI am getting it, dpkg -i then ?22:11
jacktheripperkpoman, yes22:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, ever used an iPhone?22:11
javispedroMohammadAG: a few times, why?22:12
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MohammadAGjavispedro, do you know the slider to turn things on/off?22:12
javispedrowhat would be the check button on gtk?22:12
kpomanok fine let me go further22:12
MohammadAGjavispedro, would it be doable for 3 items?22:12
MohammadAGsomething similar to that slider22:13
javispedrobest not to, it would be confusing..22:13
MohammadAGnot if done properly :p22:13
* javispedro has no idea how to do it "properly" then...22:13
javispedrounless you're thinking a puzzle-like UI with tetris-like pieces22:13
javispedrowhere the slider freely moves inside the T tetris piece22:14
MohammadAGumm, sort of22:14
MohammadAGbasically, something like I--22:14
MohammadAGdragging it would make it show -I- then --I22:15
kpomanok installing rpm2cpio22:15
MohammadAGof course, I could use the stock Gtk Slider if there is one, but it looks fugly22:15
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javispedronot the slider, but we have the selector thing22:17
javispedroor rather just three state buttons22:17
MohammadAGlike the 3G/2G applet?22:18
MohammadAGnot that appealing, but they do the job22:18
* javispedro has not yet entered this today's trendy fashion of ignoring UI guidelines completely...22:19
GAN900DocScrutinizer, crazy Canadian tourists.22:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, heh22:19
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: thought you commented on
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: MohammadAG: (slide to answer) you noticed my prev link to gtkparasite?22:21
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, no, but this isn't for slide to answer :)22:22
MohammadAGthis is for slide to lock orientation22:22
ZogGVenemo, pingos22:22
DocScrutinizerI know... :-)22:22
MohammadAGdouble checking :)22:22
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yep, crazy stuff.22:22
VenemoZogG: pongos22:22
ZogGMohammadAG, hmm, and if totally change lockscreen file22:23
ZogGclosed one22:23
ZogGor answer call file22:23
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: looks like a decent base to start tweaking closed source apps, like dialer22:23
ZogGi mean you make yours and rename it to the original one and change22:23
ZogGVenemo, have you seen?22:23
VenemoZogG, no I haven't seen22:23
MohammadAGZogG, no one can replace the stock dialer properly22:23
ZogGMohammadAG, ?22:24
DocScrutinizerZogG: way too complex22:24
MohammadAGmaybe if 50 devs started a project...22:24
MohammadAGthey might end up with a 70% complete replacement22:24
ZogGmaybe if you took 100 people like me, i do shitty code as Nokia so...22:25
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DocScrutinizerhell, even original dialer probably is only 95% complete ;-D22:25
kpomanok that will make me a 16GB fat mydocs, a 8gb ext3 /home, then the rest to play on the near future :)22:25
kpomanapply !!!22:25
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, but compared to the original dialer, the original dialer is 100% complete22:26
MohammadAGsee what I did there?22:26
kpomanjacktheripper:I didnt know about that flasher tool ! quite cool :p22:26
jacktheripperkpoman, oh yes it is22:27
kpomanjacktheripper: do you know they keep telling that nitdroid partition should be on p2 and of 2gb ?22:27
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VenemoMohammadAG: what is the remaining 30%?22:28
kpomanor is it just a matter of editing /etc/multiboot entry ?22:28
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ZogGMohammadAG, and reverse engineering? =)22:28
jacktheripperkpoman, I never followed any instructions installing nitdroid and its working, so I guess no such constraints. I wrote that wiki section myself btw xD22:28
ZogGVenemo, do you have time?22:29
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VenemoZogG: well, not exactly. but you can ask and I'll try to answer :)22:30
VenemoZogG, even if I don't have much time, I'll be able to point you to the right direction22:30
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MohammadAGVeggen, missing stuff :P22:30
ZogGlook at
MohammadAGVenemo, *22:31
MohammadAGsorry Veggen22:31
kpomanjacktheripper: ok it had a problem while partediting !! lol... I am stuffed up now :p I guess it disconnected then reconnected22:31
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kpomanstill can act on it :)22:31
VenemoMohammadAG: ok, but what stuff?22:31
ZogGVenemo, and than
VenemoZogG: what's wrong?22:31
ZogGthe second one actually is callback for change song22:31
kpomanmove sdb2 to the left and grow from 2gb to 8gb ... doing it again right now ! hope it wont die :p22:31
ZogGVenemo, i don't get how to change label from it22:32
VenemoZogG: I already told you that these callback functions are not intended for this22:32
MohammadAGVenemo, VOIP would be one thing22:33
MohammadAGEmergency calls22:33
ZogGVenemo, i used different and they do work22:33
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MohammadAGintegration with contacts22:33
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lolcatEmergency calls isn't that vital22:33
VenemoZogG: okay then, I would tell you to check out my code about this... :)22:33
MohammadAGyeah, sure22:34
ZogGlooking now22:34
kpomanI wonder why the flasher initrd kernel is 2.6.33 and the device is 2.6.28 :(22:34
VenemoZogG: but basically, xmmsc_result_notifier_set_and_unref(res, on_playlist_pos_changed, NULL); ---> instead of NULL, give it the this pointer, and then use it to manipulate the instance.22:34
ZogGwhich pointer?22:34
VenemoZogG: this22:34
ZogGdon't get how to use it than22:35
ZogGwait looking thru your code22:35
slonopotamusmsdn links on this channel? no wai22:36
MohammadAGhmm, I wonder if QML can be compiled in one binary with Qt apps22:37
Venemoslonopotamus: it's a good explanation on the C++ this pointer22:37
VenemoMohammadAG: achipa said yes it can be22:37
ZogGVenemo, so but if i do use my callback in the way you use xmms2connector22:38
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ZogGVenemo, i just do not connect it Qt4 way but C way22:38
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VenemoZogG: best way to do this: send me your code, and I'll put it together in the right way22:38
ZogGVenemo, it's in the link i showed22:38
Venemookay ZogG22:39
achipaMohammadAG: QML, just like any other file can be embedded in resource files (-> binary)22:39
MohammadAGah, as a resource22:40
MohammadAGcool, thanks22:40
Venemoachipa: how can it be actually compiled (not embedding the qml file, but compiling it to imperative code) -> is this even possible?22:40
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VenemoZogG: please delete the .pro.user file from git22:42
ZogGVenemo, why?22:42
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VenemoZogG: because it contains machine specific settings. My Qt Creator ends up deleting it22:42
MohammadAGdelete it from git, then add it to .gitignore22:43
Venemoor just don't commit it22:44
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bef0rdgoign to try cssu22:44
ZogGVenemo, ok22:44
MohammadAGVenemo, nah, always leaves a chance to have it in there22:44
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MohammadAGactually, blacklisting all *.pro.* is better22:44
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VenemoZogG: your app hmm... well it gives me this:  * xmmsc_io_out_handle was called without pending output * This is probably an error in the application using libxmmsclient22:46
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VenemoZogG: how can you tell that your callbacks are working correctly?22:46
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kpomanok now moving android to emmc :) cool ! everything works !22:47
Venemokpoman: even da fone?22:47
kpomanand I got a 8g /home now :)22:47
kpomannot the phone :p just repartitioned my /home to 8g22:47
kpomanand copy my gingerbread to that path22:47
kpomanseems it is much much faster on it22:48
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Venemowho the hell wants to use horseshit like android instead of maemo?22:49
kpomannow editing the multiboot entry22:49
kpomanVenemo: it is just for the fun dude !22:49
VenemoZogG: which one is the callback that is supposed to change the label?22:50
Venemokpoman: android is unfun22:50
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kpomanmmm it is fun having a multiboot phone ! btw I will try meego too, and now easy debian will run better on its own partition22:51
derfVenemo: Apparently there are people out there who don't want to spend weeks hacking up their phone to get it to do what they want.22:52
derfCrazy I know.22:52
Venemoderf: well N900 does what I OOB22:52
Venemoderf: well N900 does what I want, OOB22:53
ZogGVenemo, i do not have callback for that i have one that calls on_playback_cur_track_changed as song is changed22:53
derfMaybe you are the one who's crazy.22:53
VenemoZogG: so that is the one, okay22:54
Venemoderf: why am I crazy?22:54
phapomg what a crap movie22:54
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kpomanOk lets see if it is better now ! reboot the phone !22:56
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phapdid it happen to anyone here when you have the homescreen selector then you switch to let's say #8 you can't open any shortcut menu on the desktop. Before this you have to scroll a bit the desktop and then it works...22:56
ZogGphap, which one?22:56
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phapIt's all about love (2003) I gave it up at half22:56
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ZogGphap, i think i saw it22:57
phapA kind of SF movie full of nonsense22:57
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DocScrutinizerhmmpf, seems we must pepare to see 4 core meltdowns at least, in Japan23:05
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lcukDocScrutinizer, it is an extremely bad sequence of events23:06
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SpeedEvilCore meltdowns alone aren't that bad.23:07
SpeedEvilThey are horrible to dissasemble - but they don't of themselves imply large radioactive release to the environment23:07
DocScrutinizerI honestly hope it won't result in Japan vanishing as a nation, and that the world will change due to re-evaluating value of fission power23:08
SpeedEvilThat's utter hyperbole. Even worst case accidents releasing all the cores wouldn't kill everyone.23:08
derfDropping two nuclear bombs on the country didn't make Japan vanish as a nation.23:09
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: either you get that radioactive gue in groundwater, or you get an enormous steam and also hydrogen explosion sprading it all around and possibly even entering jetstream level23:10
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DocScrutinizercontamination and evacuation of >50% of the area, plus no more electric power (which is dependent virtually exclusively on nuklear plants in Japan) wouldn't make the island vanish, but I doubt we'd call the result Japan anymore23:12
cehtehanyone ordered a new toyota? .. guess that order will be a bit delayed23:13
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VenemoZogG: 1) if you want to make an application like this, separate the UI from the actual program logic23:14
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VenemoZogG: 2) try to adopt and follow a coding style23:14
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ZogGVenemo, what for did you use typedef struct xmmsv_St xmmsv_t; ?23:15
VenemoZogG: because I did not want to include that ugly c header in my own header, therefore I typedeffed that for myself23:16
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ZogGVenemo, what ugly header?23:20
VenemoZogG: #include <xmms2/xmmsclient/xmmsclient.h>23:20
VenemoZogG: read about the SoC principle23:21
ZogGdamn i should learn before starting23:22
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ZogGbut let's try to understand it that way23:22
VenemoZogG: read that article23:24
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VenemoZogG: also, in a Qt app, use qDebug() instead of printf23:36
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MohammadAGhow do I check if an object was initialized?23:42
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MohammadAGif (objectName) is always returning true23:42
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VenemoMohammadAG: what do you mean by initialized?23:43
MohammadAGIt's not a null object23:43
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VenemoMohammadAG: well, initialize it to 0 at the beginning23:43
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VenemoMohammadAG: or you can use a QPointer if the object is a QObject23:43
MohammadAGit is23:44
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kpomanok problems ! lol my nitdroid boots and tells me Guru meditation and segmentation fault errors.23:44
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MohammadAGinitializing it to 0 worked, thanks Veggen23:45
MohammadAGsorry again Veggen :/23:45
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VenemoMohammadAG: is your irc client crap?23:46
MohammadAGno, n comes after g23:47
Veggen(no problem, Mohammed :)23:47
VenemoMohammadAG: umm. if I press M<Tab>, mine autocompletes to the last nickname who wrote something and begins with M23:49
MohammadAGnot sure if XChat does that23:50
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VenemoMohammadAG: oh. so the answer to my question is yes23:52
Sc0rpiusXchat does not do that, mIRC autocompletion is way better23:52
VenemoZogG: okay, I managed to get your code up and running correctly23:52
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Sc0rpiusactually mIRC is better in all aspects except it doesn't run on Linux23:52
VenemoI use Konversation, it is excellent23:52
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# du -h /root/mediaplayer.bc5c5b5a10377a360354ff2ab641c1dc23:53
MohammadAG<3 debug builds23:53
ZogGVenemo, how?23:55
MohammadAGdoes QML use the SGX by default?23:55
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MohammadAGI remember alterego talked about some OpenGL support23:55
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ZogGVenemo, can you look up into the repo to see waht i did23:56
ZogGit doesn't compile23:56
ZogGbut i used your style23:56
VenemoZogG: I cloned your repo when you asked me and a minute ago I solved it.23:56
ZogGup the code please23:57
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VenemoZogG: I'm cleaning it up right now23:57
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