| alterego | Heh | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| alterego | Yeah, I don't care :P | 00:00 |
| alterego | I've had loads of random people message me about maemo stuff because of that on facebook. | 00:00 |
| NIN101 | What is the name of the funny script or program which regenerates always /etc/fsatb? | 00:00 |
| MohammadAG | like I do, my nickname's my first.lastname | 00:00 |
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| alterego | NIN101: update-fstab | 00:01 |
| alterego | ?? | 00:01 |
| MohammadAG | NIN101, rcS-late? | 00:01 |
| alterego | Heh | 00:01 |
| NIN101 | hmm, thx guys, i will look into it. | 00:01 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, lol, what about MSN/Skype :P | 00:02 |
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| alterego | You know, that might be where that random guy got my skype address from .. | 00:03 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, also, with the renderer code that nicolai plugged into the mediaplayer, shouldn't you be able to easily C++-ify the app you made? | 00:03 |
| alterego | He phoned me up on skype randomly when I was in the pub and signed into my IM accounts to talk to my gf | 00:03 |
| alterego | He works for some mobile software dev company in London and asked if I wanted a job ^.^ | 00:03 |
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| MohammadAG | lol I got a skype call at 3AM once | 00:03 |
| alterego | Well, the UI is piss easy to port to C++ tbh | 00:04 |
| MohammadAG | from then on, my phone's always been in silent mode :P | 00:04 |
| alterego | And the backend is fine in Python | 00:04 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, I wasn't referring to the UI, I could do that :P | 00:04 |
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| MohammadAG | if only Qt apps launched as fast as gtk ones | 00:04 |
| alterego | Well, the UI is the only thing that uses Qt | 00:05 |
| alterego | What would be the point in porting the python backend? It works fine :P | 00:05 |
| alterego | It's only the UI that has speed problems .. | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | python's a memory hog :P | 00:06 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, hmm, ever used no english strings in a Qt UI? | 00:06 |
| panthere_noire | utility "card" that displays the satellite image. These images has its place it there? on the n900. There is no directory. googleearth? | 00:07 |
| panthere_noire | thank you in advance | 00:07 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: nope, I've never bothered translating apps either. | 00:07 |
| alterego | I use tr("Some English Crap") | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | when I tried nicolai's mediaplayer (with mafw source), it showed weird strings | 00:07 |
| alterego | Which probably isn't the best way of doing it :D | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | that's not what I meant :P | 00:07 |
| MohammadAG | actually, that's how I do it lol | 00:07 |
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| MohammadAG | anyways, should non english strings be wrapped with QLatin1String or something? | 00:08 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'll keep it like that until I start working on adding support for translations, which will be a v2 feature. | 00:08 |
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| alterego | Hrm ... | 00:09 |
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| alterego | So, you call accept on a dialog and it closes, you validate data and then you have to reshow the freakin' dialog. | 00:10 |
| alterego | Which looks crap. | 00:10 |
| alterego | I guess I'll have to put the validation code in the accept method, no biggy. | 00:11 |
| MohammadAG | yay, another overclocking script | 00:11 |
| alterego | yay .... | 00:12 |
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| Jyoshm | So, i was trying to get some japanese input on maemo, and installed the maemocjk-him-scim-anthy metapackage, and according to some links on google, with ctrl-space i should be able to write in japanese, which is not happening | 00:20 |
| Jyoshm | Any ideas? | 00:21 |
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| * alterego tries to get his gf to do a skype video call .. | 00:42 | |
| SpeedEvil | Can one do that on the n900 now? | 00:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is tat x86 only | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | I did one on new year's eve :P | 00:43 |
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| alterego | Well, we've got audio, and she can see me. | 01:00 |
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| NIN101 | Does anyone got truecrypt running with kernel crypto support? | 01:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | netsplit? kornbluth down? | 01:05 |
| SpeedEvil | freenode implements server hiding | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | any splits from any server are reported as the server you're on | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Maybe I'm confused though. | 01:06 |
| satmd | has quit [*.net *.split] | 01:07 |
| NIN101 | Does anyone got truecrypt running with kernel crypto support? | 01:07 |
| NIN101 | I assume that I have to recompile it with AES modules etc. :/ | 01:07 |
| NIN101 | (the kernel) | 01:07 |
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| pupnik | http://i.imgur.com/q4vbF.png zero-cost vaporizer | 01:11 |
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| MohammadAG | remind me why everyone uses freenode again? | 01:12 |
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| pupnik | it has the most open-source projects | 01:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL! Konversation quits silent death when trying to change kornbluth.freenode to irc.freenode | 01:12 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, and most netsplits | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | reproducably. Well at least 2 times in a row | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | kornbluth just down (no answer) | 01:14 |
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| Tamyrlin | Hi, I'm kind of a newbie on maemo programming, could anyone tell me how to force an application to the foreground? (I've tried googling for some time now, but I can't seem to find the trick. (I've tried gtk_window_present(), and gtk_window_deiconify(), gtk_window_fullscreen() without any success) | 01:17 |
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| MohammadAG | not sure about gtk but Qt's method has the word active in it, maybe you want to google for that? | 01:20 |
| MohammadAG | (wmctrl works too) :P | 01:20 |
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| ShadowJK | I for one would like to know how to make apps stop force themselves into foreground | 01:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: o.O | 01:27 |
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| MohammadAG | there's also gtk_widget_gain_focus() | 01:29 |
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| MohammadAG | Tamyrlin, there's also gtk_widget_gain_focus() | 01:30 |
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| Tamyrlin | Hmm, actually, I'll have to reverse my previous excited position. gtk_window_set_focus() didn't work after all. (I just thought it worked because the screen wasn't locked when I started the application.) | 01:31 |
| MohammadAG | nah nevermind, stick to set_focus() | 01:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wb kornbluth | 01:32 |
| Tamyrlin | Well, it is not a big deal to focus the application by hand for me | 01:32 |
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| MohammadAG | Tamyrlin, you did pass arguments to the function right? | 01:34 |
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| Tamyrlin | Of course | 01:34 |
| Tamyrlin | (the window and a textentry widget in the window) | 01:35 |
| Tamyrlin | Hmm | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 01:35 |
| Tamyrlin | I'm trying out wmctrl right now | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | there's probably a right way to do it | 01:35 |
| Tamyrlin | Am I completely off the base if I'm thinking that I should use wmctrl -l first | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | but I could think of a quick hack :P | 01:35 |
| Tamyrlin | and then wmctrl -R 0xaabbccdd (where aabbccdd is the window ID given from wmctrl -l?) | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | open a hildon stackable window and close it | 01:35 |
| MohammadAG | wmctrl -i -a $id | 01:36 |
| Tamyrlin | ah | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | but there's probably a better way | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | maybe ask the gtk people? | 01:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder why any app would dare to switch itself to foreground | 01:37 |
| MohammadAG | alarm app | 01:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 01:38 |
| Tamyrlin | But yes, you are right that it is not really that polite | 01:38 |
| Tamyrlin | Then again, waking me up in the morning is not that polite to begin with | 01:38 |
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| * MohammadAG wants an alarm with no snooze/stop buttons and no X button | 01:39 | |
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| Tamyrlin | MohammadAG: That is exactly what I'm writing :) | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | that would stop mce after turning on the display | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | ignore the last part, I'll add it in myself :P | 01:39 |
| Tamyrlin | yeah, the last part sounded a bit dangerous | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | it disables the power button :P | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | (along with most system buttons) | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | can you also grab ctrl+backspace? | 01:41 |
| alterego | Heh, just noticed that nokia C7 comp and that guy on tmo | 01:41 |
| Tamyrlin | That is a bit extreme, but I'm already handling the case where you click once on the power button and then click on the close this application selection | 01:42 |
| MohammadAG | how? | 01:42 |
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| Tamyrlin | (That selection basically runs xkill on the application. When GDK catches that it will just run exit(1)) | 01:42 |
| MohammadAG | ah | 01:43 |
| Tamyrlin | So I dealt with that by fork()ing the application from a main thread and checking the return value | 01:43 |
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| Tamyrlin | If it is non-zero I just relaunch the application | 01:43 |
| MohammadAG | EvilAlarm removes the button somehow | 01:44 |
| kerio | wait, what? | 01:44 |
| kerio | an alarm i can't dismiss? | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | i think it starts a window that isn't managed by the window manager | 01:44 |
| MohammadAG | and so, the button won't show | 01:45 |
| MohammadAG | I think = never looked at the code | 01:45 |
| Tamyrlin | Ah, didn't know about that app | 01:45 |
| Tamyrlin | Seems like it does almost what I want :) | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nohup sleep 6:30 && aplay einstruerzende_neubauten.wav | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you need to be awake to stop that | 01:47 |
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| pupnik | that's not music | 01:48 |
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| Tamyrlin | Aha | 01:49 |
| Tamyrlin | wmctrl -i -R 0xaabbccdd worked | 01:49 |
| kerio | DocScrutinizer: haha nice | 01:49 |
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| crashanddie_ | anyone here from the US? | 01:53 |
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| crashanddie_ | or near a proper library? | 01:53 |
| Gh0sty | :P | 01:53 |
| crashanddie_ | yay, we have infobot back | 01:53 |
| Gh0sty | why are libraries proper in the US? :P | 01:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Improper libraries spell colour right? | 01:54 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I can press ^C while i'm asleep | 01:54 |
| MohammadAG | btw | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | evil alarm is... evil | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: man nohup | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | you can't exit the window | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | oh, nohup | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | didn't notice that | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | umm | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | killall nohup? | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | still asleep? :-P | 01:55 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | I pulled the battery out of my device once | 01:56 |
| MohammadAG | while i was asleep | 01:56 |
| crashanddie_ | because they carry Wasiolek's books, Gh0sty and SpeedEvil, and in france they don't :P Hence they are improper | 01:56 |
| Tamyrlin | Perhaps that is why Nokia makes the battery door so hard to open... | 01:57 |
| crashanddie_ | and I just need 15 pages of a damn book | 01:57 |
| * MohammadAG looks at crashanddie_ | 01:57 | |
| * crashanddie_ looks back | 01:57 | |
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| MohammadAG | Tamyrlin, I already broke a battery cover, they need to try again | 01:57 |
| * MohammadAG stares at crashanddie_ | 01:57 | |
| * crashanddie_ stares back | 01:57 | |
| * MohammadAG gets a bomb and looks at crashanddie_ | 01:58 | |
| * DocScrutinizer starts videocam to document the scene | 01:58 | |
| * kerio accepts bets | 01:59 | |
| * crashanddie_ wonders if there is a rule 42 about terrorists | 01:59 | |
| crashanddie_ | with bombs | 01:59 |
| * MohammadAG throws bomb | 01:59 | |
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| kerio | rule 42? | 01:59 |
| SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_42 | 01:59 |
| crashanddie_ | crap | 02:00 |
| crashanddie_ | 32? | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I fail to see how many terrorists would be put-out by that rule. | 02:00 |
| SpeedEvil | I think you mean 34 | 02:00 |
| crashanddie_ | oh | 02:00 |
| crashanddie_ | 42, answer to... got confused | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie_, ven vill you be back on the project? :P | 02:01 |
| crashanddie_ | whenever I get time | 02:02 |
| crashanddie_ | been hunting for flats, fucking time consuming | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | throwing bombs probably isn't a gaelic game :-D | 02:02 |
| crashanddie_ | tomorrow, hopefully | 02:02 |
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| alterego | Might get a C7 | 02:03 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, get an N8 | 02:03 |
| lardman | improved version of C4 as we're talking about bombs? | 02:03 |
| alterego | I might be getting a C7 for free :P | 02:03 |
| alterego | I'm holding off upgrading until the N9 | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | sell it and get an N8 | 02:04 |
| alterego | Maybe ;) | 02:04 |
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| alterego | I would prefer an N8 | 02:04 |
| lardman | does the N8 have a compass? | 02:04 |
| alterego | But if the C7 has Qt, I don't really care. | 02:04 |
| alterego | lardman: yeah | 02:04 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | C4 | 02:04 |
| lardman | good, not that I want one, but at least Nokia are adding them in these days.... | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, the N97 has Qt | 02:05 |
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| MohammadAG | :P | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG | lardman, the N97 had a compass | 02:05 |
| alterego | N97 is ghey | 02:05 |
| MohammadAG | very | 02:05 |
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| lardman | MohammadAG: yeah I remember that now | 02:06 |
| alterego | Though I could probably get one if I wanted. | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | but it looks better than the N900 in some ways :P | 02:06 |
| alterego | Maybe | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | but the battery cover was crap | 02:06 |
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| MohammadAG | and RAM :p | 02:06 |
| alterego | I still look at my N900 every now-and-again I think "Wow, that's sexy" | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | and the camera lens | 02:06 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, only when the kb is closed and the screen's wiped | 02:07 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | but the N97 was sexier :P | 02:07 |
| alterego | C7 has compass aswell. | 02:07 |
| BCMM | alterego: the form or the function? | 02:07 |
| alterego | So it ticks all my Columbus boxes | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: only when the screen's off | 02:07 |
| alterego | BCMM: both :P | 02:07 |
| MohammadAG | C7 is Symbian^3 right? | 02:07 |
| alterego | I had a play with one the other day. | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | lol DocScrutinizer | 02:08 |
| alterego | No cz lens, but it was really good quality. | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | maemo 5's UI is cool tbh | 02:08 |
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| MohammadAG | well if it's for free, get it | 02:08 |
| MohammadAG | otherwise, N8 | 02:09 |
| alterego | It is ^3 yeah | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | ^3's UI is better than ^1 | 02:09 |
| lardman | hmm, /me finally sees post about qtm 1.1 going to extras-devel, good good | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | the whole OS is snappier | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | BUT! | 02:09 |
| alterego | Yeah, seems smooth. | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | I've noticed angry birds closing twice on me | 02:09 |
| alterego | But I keep pressing outside of dialogs to dismess them and not having it .. | 02:09 |
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| MohammadAG | and the official panorama app didn't launch | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG | all due to low RAM | 02:10 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:10 |
| MohammadAG | only fix is a reboot sadly, no top + killall on the N8 | 02:10 |
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| MohammadAG | also, the qtbrowser i made didn't work on it | 02:11 |
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| MohammadAG | and there's no terminal to debug that :P | 02:11 |
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| alterego | Though C7 doesn't have HDMI out, which is a -1 imo | 02:11 |
| MohammadAG | HDMI's cool on the N8 | 02:11 |
| MohammadAG | picture quality is amazing | 02:11 |
| MohammadAG | haven't tried my own clips FYI, only the included Tron trailer | 02:12 |
| alterego | :) | 02:12 |
| alterego | Heh | 02:12 |
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| * SpeedEvil ponders a tron trailer. | 02:12 | |
| SpeedEvil | Does it have a standard towing attachment? | 02:13 |
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| MohammadAG | lol | 02:13 |
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| alterego | Hahah | 02:14 |
| nox- | haha | 02:14 |
| MohammadAG | the iPod touch has no fmtx right? | 02:16 |
| alterego | No Apple products have built in fmtx | 02:17 |
| alterego | You buy an add on | 02:17 |
| * MohammadAG needs a standalone MP3 player with fmtx | 02:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry I find it kinda funny when Australia's coal mines can't work because of water caused by global warming | 02:18 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm, fck | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | i need to be at school at 9AM | 02:18 |
| MohammadAG | and it's 2AM :P | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | you should have vacations | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's new year | 02:19 |
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| MohammadAG | we do | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | but my chemistry teacher needs us for 2h | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | oh well | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 02:20 |
| MohammadAG | i'll sleep after I get home | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | let the teacher know how much of a favour you're doing for him :-D | 02:21 |
| lardman | gone midnight here, /me heads for bed | 02:21 |
| lardman | night night everyone | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 02:21 |
| MohammadAG | night lardman | 02:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | night Lantizia | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrr | 02:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry Lantizia - ETAB | 02:21 |
| Lantizia | np :) | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: xchat is missing nick repeat for tab at start if line. And while we're at it, the nick completion could use a most recently seen scheme (like L<tab> would expand to lardman in above case as he was last with l to post) | 02:24 |
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| NIN101 | I assume that the device mounts /dev/mmcblk0p1 automatically, it doesn't care if it is commented out in /etc/fstab. Does anyone know, where I can find that script, which is doing this? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | suggested sequence of nicknames suggested/completed for multiple tabs at start of line: last used nick in last own post; nick of user most recently posted, nick of user 2nd recently... | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: fstab is irrelevant | 02:29 |
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| NIN101 | hmm, and what is relevant? | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | mounting is done in rcS-early or rcS-late | 02:30 |
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| NIN101 | thx | 02:30 |
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| NIN101 | I assume rcS-early, I didn'T found in late anything ralted to mmcblk0p1 | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | or any other file of that zoo | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | (tip: grep for "I hate this hack") | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think it's in same file | 02:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or grep for MMC_MOUNTPOINT | 02:32 |
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| NIN101 | ok, thx. | 02:32 |
| NIN101 | found it | 02:32 |
| NIN101 | it is in /etc/init.d/ | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but where exactly now? | 02:33 |
| NIN101 | rcS | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 02:33 |
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| NIN101 | I have another question: is there a compiled kernel out there with crypto support, for example with AES? Would be cool for truecrypt, cause currently it can't use kernel support. | 02:35 |
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| Arkenoi | what's the point of using kernel crypto with no crypto acceleration hardware? | 02:36 |
| psycho_oreos | paranoia | 02:36 |
| psycho_oreos | next thing that will be asked is how to overclock CPU because 600MHz will be inadequate for truecrypt | 02:38 |
| psycho_oreos | and then fried hardware | 02:38 |
| kerio | haha | 02:38 |
| kerio | btw there is crypto accel hw | 02:38 |
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| psycho_oreos | CPU supported crypto accel? I thought less than a handful of CPUs actually support crypto accel on hardware level and ARM wasn't one of them | 02:39 |
| psycho_oreos | still battery life may eventually go down the drain as a result | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | there is a crypto engine | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | And there is no such thing as 'ARM' | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | really. | 02:41 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a 'ARM' core - and then oodles of seperate unrelated modules that people glom on the same chip. | 02:42 |
| SpeedEvil | The modules can vary significantly, from crypto, to DSP, to ADSL modem, to ... | 02:42 |
| psycho_oreos | what I was referring to was exactly just that, the type of CPU architecture | 02:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | CPU core architecture never supports crypto. It's always an external module. | 02:43 |
| SpeedEvil | And ARM is produced by so many vendors, that add random things. | 02:43 |
| psycho_oreos | that's true on the ARM is being produced by so many vendors, hence they are licensed users of the arch | 02:44 |
| SpeedEvil | The core architecture in this case tells you little about the modules that have been incorporated in the chip. | 02:45 |
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| psycho_oreos | that is also true though I do remember there was a site covering the hardware chips on the n900 itself, though unofficial there was no mentioning of crypto accel hardware chip | 02:48 |
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| psycho_oreos | ugh.. | 02:48 |
| psycho_oreos | that is also true though I do remember there was a site covering the hardware chips on the n900 itself, though unofficial there was no mentioning of crypto accel hardware chip | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not a chip | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | It's a module of the CPU | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_CPU#Summary | 02:49 |
| psycho_oreos | ahh | 02:50 |
| alterego | Does Qt have a default confirmation dialog? | 02:50 |
| alterego | Where you just give it a message and it has yes/no buttons? | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | QMessageBox | 02:51 |
| alterego | That was it. | 02:51 |
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| alterego | Does it work alright on maemo? | 02:51 |
| alterego | I bet it fucks up on portrait. | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | yep | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 02:51 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 02:51 |
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| alterego | I mean with the transition, not the actual appearing in portrait. | 02:53 |
| pupnik_ | omap3 supports variable resolution framebuffer scaling... http://pandorawiki.org/Kernel_interface | 02:55 |
| * alterego wonders what that means. | 02:57 | |
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| yacc | Sigh, nice user accessible format, .mafw.db ;( | 02:58 |
| pupnik_ | alterego: your program can request 512x384 resolution at whatever bit-depth it needs | 02:58 |
| alterego | Oh, cool. | 02:58 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, hmm, it will fuck up indeed :P | 02:59 |
| alterego | Lame | 02:59 |
| alterego | Roll my own it is then .. | 02:59 |
| alterego | "ColumbusMessageBox" | 02:59 |
| MohammadAG | on that note | 02:59 |
| alterego | Well, subclass with my fix ;) | 02:59 |
| MohammadAG | QMessageBox has an Ok button | 02:59 |
| MohammadAG | that stretches | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG | unlike the one I got in the FMTXdialog | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG | guess I'll have to subclass a QPushButton :P | 03:00 |
| sig^ | any ideas why I get from PyQt4.QtGui import * ImportError: No module named QtGui ? | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG | got all libs? | 03:01 |
| alterego | Note to reader, QMessageBox#setInformativeText() is rubbish on maemo .. | 03:01 |
| alterego | sig^: are you using PySide? | 03:01 |
| nox- | yacc, sqlite? | 03:01 |
| MohammadAG | no, he's using PyQt4 :P | 03:01 |
| MohammadAG | isn't that obvious? :P | 03:01 |
| yacc | nox-, yeah, but the value is a blob ;) | 03:02 |
| nox- | oh | 03:02 |
| alterego | ;) | 03:02 |
| alterego | yacc: value for what? | 03:02 |
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| yacc | nox-, so deleting say all FIN and FRA prefixed stations is slightly, only slightly, painful | 03:02 |
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| MohammadAG | sig^, install python2.5-qt4-gui | 03:03 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 03:03 |
| MohammadAG | somehow got insert enabled in xchat | 03:03 |
| yacc | alterego, .mafw.db: | 03:03 |
| yacc | CREATE TABLE iradiobookmarks( | 03:03 |
| yacc | idINTEGERNOT NULL, | 03:03 |
| yacc | keyTEXTNOT NULL, | 03:03 |
| yacc | valueBLOB); | 03:03 |
| yacc | That's a class book example of GOOD SQL schema design, I guess. NOT. | 03:04 |
| alterego | Ah, bookmark, interesting. | 03:04 |
| MohammadAG | what about them? | 03:04 |
| MohammadAG | mafw stores internet radio bookmarks :P | 03:04 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, simple exercise, delete all bookmarks where the title is like 'FRA%'; | 03:04 |
| MohammadAG | what would happen? | 03:05 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, the values are all in blobs. | 03:05 |
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| alterego | yacc: where's the db? | 03:05 |
| yacc | Hence mostly, if not completely unoperable on with SQL. | 03:06 |
| yacc | alterego, ~user/.mafw.db | 03:06 |
| MohammadAG | ~ | 03:06 |
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| yacc | PITA is the relevant word. | 03:06 |
| alterego | Hrm | 03:06 |
| alterego | yacc: http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=498302 | 03:07 |
| alterego | I see why they did it now. It's not bad schema design. | 03:08 |
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| jacekowski | at least it's in SQL | 03:10 |
| jacekowski | not in fully binary blob | 03:10 |
| yacc | alterego, that's nice but it's an utterly bad design if you plan to manipulate it in SQL. And if you do not plan to manipulate it with SQL, sqlite is not necessary the best tool for data storage, either do a humanreadable input/output or do some automatic serialization, it's not exactly as if the mafw needs to allow for multiple clients to manipulate that file directly, ... | 03:10 |
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| yacc | jacekowski, alterego: if it's such a great schema, please provide the SQL statement to delete all stations where the title starts with 'FRA' ;) | 03:11 |
| alterego | :)) | 03:11 |
| jacekowski | truncate table iradiobookmarks; | 03:11 |
| alterego | Hah | 03:11 |
| yacc | jacekowski, even without the BLOB column, that key/value storage is a PITA in SQL, ... | 03:11 |
| yacc | jacekowski, that also kills bookmarks that do not start with FRA. | 03:11 |
| jacekowski | well, you never said anything about keeping rest of them | 03:12 |
| yacc | jacekowski, lol, ok, jacekowski, alterego: if it's such a great schema, please provide the SQL statement to delete all stations where the title starts with 'FRA' and leave all other stations alone ;) | 03:12 |
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| jacekowski | how does that blob look like? | 03:13 |
| yacc | jacekowski, even without the blob that is PITA to decode in SQLite at best, you are still stuck with needing a subquery to get you all ids you need to delete, ... | 03:13 |
| yacc | jacekowski, http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=498302 | 03:13 |
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| yacc | jacekowski, substr(quote(value), 19, 200) gives your the part where the string value is encoded in hex, ... | 03:14 |
| spiritd | how many OSs can I have on N900? | 03:14 |
| jacekowski | then | 03:14 |
| MohammadAG | Unlimited | 03:14 |
| MohammadAG | theoritically | 03:14 |
| yacc | now I just wonder how do "abcdef0123456789".decode("hex") in SQLite ;) | 03:14 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, I wonder more if there is such a thing as Maemo for the current generation Archos tablets, ... | 03:15 |
| jacekowski | delete from iradiobookmarks where substr(quote(value), 19, 200) LIKE '465241%'; | 03:15 |
| MohammadAG | doubt it | 03:15 |
| MohammadAG | though you could get maemo's UI elements on an archos | 03:15 |
| yacc | jacekowski, wrong, you need to select the key, remember the ids and delete all stations with the ids. | 03:15 |
| yacc | So you get something like: | 03:15 |
| MohammadAG | hildon-desktop scales for different resolutions | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: usage of SQL db should be restricted to those who *know* about data design | 03:15 |
| jacekowski | yacc: well, i never seen that database | 03:16 |
| jacekowski | yacc: but hmm, so there is another table with that stuff? | 03:16 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: i'm tempted to buy archos windows tablet | 03:16 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: yeah, and that looks worse than my first DB that I designed ;) (At least, I learned the pain, I had to maintain that app for over 8 years in production, ...) | 03:17 |
| jacekowski | but price is a bit high | 03:17 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, it's windows, of course the price is high | 03:17 |
| MohammadAG | in all seriousness | 03:17 |
| jacekowski | not beacuse of that | 03:17 |
| MohammadAG | try to find one without an OS | 03:17 |
| jacekowski | i mean, netbook costs a bit less | 03:17 |
| jacekowski | o2 joggler costs £49 | 03:17 |
| MohammadAG | i think pupnik has an Archos | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: no, it doesn'.t | 03:18 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It cost that for a short promotional period. | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | well | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | £99 | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | still cheaper | 03:18 |
| yacc | jacekowski, you need something like DELETE FROM iradiobookmarks WHERE id IN (SELECT id FROM iradiobookmarks WHERE key='title' AND substr(quote(value), 19, 100) LIKE 'FFRRAA%'); | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | but i got joggler for 49 | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | yacc: ekhm | 03:18 |
| jacekowski | yacc: so what does key mean? | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | yacc: as in what is stored in that column? | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | no | 03:19 |
| yacc | jacekowski, I've got an Archos 101 for christmas. | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | no | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | you are wrong | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | just plain | 03:19 |
| jacekowski | DELETE FROM iradiobookmarks WHERE key='title' AND substr(quote(value), 19, 100) LIKE 'FFRRAA%' would do | 03:19 |
| yacc | jacekowski, well, key are for example 'uri' or 'title' | 03:19 |
| alterego | Hrm .. | 03:19 |
| alterego | Ah, I see. | 03:20 |
| yacc | jacekowski, no, because that deletes say (34, 'title', ...) but leaves all other entries with id=34 in the database. | 03:20 |
| alterego | Interesting error this :D | 03:20 |
| * alterego contemplates. | 03:20 | |
| jacekowski | hmm | 03:20 |
| jacekowski | so you have couple entries for same id | 03:20 |
| yacc | you need to select on (34, 'title', ...) to get the ids that you want to delete, and then delete all rows with id=34. | 03:20 |
| yacc | id/key is the composite primary key. | 03:20 |
| jacekowski | hmm, that's seriously fucked up | 03:20 |
| jacekowski | and person that designed it should be shot | 03:21 |
| jacekowski | twice | 03:21 |
| jacekowski | to make sure | 03:21 |
| alterego | You can do it in one SQL query though :P | 03:21 |
| yacc | jacekowski, yeah, that's why the old guys all consider MS Access to be the most dangerous part of MS Office, ... | 03:21 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, or the mafw API? | 03:21 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: something else ;) | 03:22 |
| jacekowski | yacc: my company has huge "database" in microsoft table generator | 03:22 |
| MohammadAG | sowwy | 03:22 |
| jacekowski | microsoft table generator == ms excel | 03:22 |
| NIN101 | Where can I get the sourcecode of /usr/sbin/ke-recv | 03:22 |
| yacc | jacekowski, well, bad database design, which a program like MS Access enables (because it makes you think that a newbie should do it) really funny ways to create fucked up data ;) | 03:23 |
| jacekowski | NIN101: on google | 03:23 |
| spiritd | how can I remove Nokia logo... and see full boot log... like on pc with debian for ex | 03:23 |
| NIN101 | i googled jacekowski | 03:23 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, is facebook redirecting microB to the touch site? | 03:24 |
| NIN101 | I just wan't to see how open this phone really is. | 03:24 |
| jacekowski | ~google ke-recv | 03:24 |
| jacekowski | blah | 03:24 |
| jacekowski | NIN101: well, i googled and it's first result in my google | 03:24 |
| NIN101 | and? | 03:24 |
| NIN101 | click the link in that thread | 03:24 |
| NIN101 | you will get 404 | 03:24 |
| jacekowski | then second result | 03:24 |
| jacekowski | second result is working | 03:25 |
| NIN101 | thx jacekowski , I shouldn't google "ke-recv source", fuck fail | 03:25 |
| MohammadAG | spiritd, compile a kernel with framebuffer enabled | 03:25 |
| nox- | i though fb is unstable? | 03:26 |
| nox- | thought even | 03:26 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: connect serial console | 03:26 |
| jacekowski | nox-: it's not | 03:26 |
| spiritd | MohammadAG hmm | 03:26 |
| nox- | oh | 03:26 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: not you | 03:26 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: connect serial console | 03:26 |
| nox- | someone here once said... | 03:26 |
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| MohammadAG | nox-, kinda | 03:26 |
| nox- | meaning? :) | 03:27 |
| yacc | alterego, yeah, you can do it in one SQL statement. OTOH, jacekowski demonstrated that it's not trivial to get it right, I'm not exactly the best test person for that, I've spent some years with the jobtitle that contained the letters DBA ;) | 03:27 |
| MohammadAG | it might cause 3 reboots at startup | 03:27 |
| MohammadAG | usually won't | 03:27 |
| nox- | hm | 03:27 |
| MohammadAG | otherwise, it's fine | 03:27 |
| MohammadAG | and kewl | 03:27 |
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| jacekowski | yacc: well, once you know db structure you can write a query | 03:28 |
| nox- | yacc, the one who `designed' that layout cant have been a dba that much is clear :) | 03:28 |
| jacekowski | i underestimated how fucked up is it | 03:28 |
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| alterego | yacc: heh :) | 03:28 |
| jacekowski | but what is it anyways | 03:28 |
| jacekowski | that mafw database | 03:29 |
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| jacekowski | what is using these bookmarks | 03:29 |
| MohammadAG | mediaplayer | 03:29 |
| jacekowski | how is mohammedia player going? | 03:29 |
| MohammadAG | As scheduled methinks | 03:30 |
| BCMM | heh, is that it's official title yet? | 03:30 |
| MohammadAG | no lol | 03:30 |
| yacc | nox-, well, as I said I've done similar if not that bad mistakes on my first "designs", but having to maintain that bullshit for a couple of years is quite an education in the drawbacks of that kind of designs. (Basically, at best long queries, many joins [actually if you need title/url/type in a result row you need 2 joins], slow running queries). | 03:30 |
| spiritd | jacekowski MohammadAG i though I can just switch some value somewhere... but recompilation? :) btw i meant something like this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42378 | 03:31 |
| BCMM | whyever not? | 03:31 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: you can connect serial console | 03:31 |
| MohammadAG | CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE | 03:31 |
| MohammadAG | iirc | 03:31 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: that's one | 03:31 |
| yacc | So you loose all possible benefits of having SQL, but that does not make the pain of the app<->DB rift go away. It's a combination of the worst of both worlds, kind of. | 03:31 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: or you can modify init script to dump dmesg to file | 03:31 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: as soon as it's started | 03:31 |
| MohammadAG | that's not real time | 03:32 |
| spiritd | jacekowski well its more for "geek look" than for some debuging... at least now | 03:32 |
| MohammadAG | spiritd, it's just a 10 minute process :P | 03:32 |
| MohammadAG | spiritd, I could compile one for you, but I'm away from my PC | 03:32 |
| jacekowski | if he has scratchbox | 03:32 |
| MohammadAG | installing scratchbox takes me 5 minutes | 03:33 |
| MohammadAG | I have a local mirror of the debs/archives needed :P | 03:33 |
| jacekowski | i have mirror as well | 03:33 |
| jacekowski | and working scratchbox | 03:33 |
| MohammadAG | and some custom scripts | 03:33 |
| MohammadAG | to copy to /tmp etc | 03:33 |
| jacekowski | i have builder | 03:34 |
| alterego | I swear my v1 roadmap is just staying the same size whilst I remove and then add new items :/ | 03:34 |
| MohammadAG | build one for him :P | 03:34 |
| jacekowski | 31G repository.maemo.org/ | 03:34 |
| MohammadAG | can I have that on DVDs shipped to me please? :P | 03:34 |
| alterego | Heh | 03:35 |
| jacekowski | i can ship them via interweb | 03:35 |
| alterego | is that non-free as well jacekowski ? | 03:35 |
| jacekowski | alterego: yes | 03:35 |
| alterego | How big is non-free do you know? | 03:35 |
| jacekowski | only fremantle | 03:35 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, a tar.gz of it? | 03:35 |
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| jacekowski | and only binaries | 03:35 |
| jacekowski | no sources | 03:35 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, but downloading file-by-file takes tiem | 03:35 |
| MohammadAG | time* | 03:35 |
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| jacekowski | it took me only 20 minutes to do first download | 03:36 |
| MohammadAG | you live in Poland/UK | 03:36 |
| jacekowski | yes | 03:36 |
| MohammadAG | where internet speeds are up to 100MBs(?) | 03:36 |
| jacekowski | no | 03:36 |
| MohammadAG | I live in IL :P | 03:36 |
| jacekowski | well speeds are up to couple GBs | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | if you can afford it | 03:37 |
| MohammadAG | for personal use? | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | as long as you can pay for it | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | i can't | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | but it would be nice to have at home | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | that's server in french DC | 03:37 |
| MohammadAG | i thought it was for corps only | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | 100.4MiB /nokia-binaries | 03:37 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: only corps can afford that kind of stuff | 03:38 |
| * MohammadAG has a local copy of those | 03:38 | |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: but anybody can buy it | 03:38 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, how much? :P | 03:38 |
| alterego | I should have mirrors r.m.o when I Was at my parents this weekend. | 03:38 |
| alterego | s/mirrors/mirrored/ | 03:38 |
| infobot | alterego meant: I should have mirrored r.m.o when I Was at my parents this weekend. | 03:38 |
| MohammadAG | yes, you should | 03:39 |
| MohammadAG | but you didn't | 03:39 |
| jacekowski | i recently asked for quote for 30Mbits cir=eir | 03:39 |
| jacekowski | £1k/mo | 03:39 |
| MohammadAG | such carelessness | 03:39 |
| MohammadAG | i'll pass | 03:39 |
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| jacekowski | anyways | 03:39 |
| jacekowski | extras-testing 162.4MiB /non-free | 03:39 |
| alterego | I want a local mirror so I can setup autobuilder to test before I upload to extras builder. | 03:39 |
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| jacekowski | extras-devel arund 130M | 03:39 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, well, here around a triple-play (paytv, phone, Internet) package with 100mbit/10mbit Internet costs around 70€ monthly :) | 03:39 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, you can't hide FAILED builds forever | 03:39 |
| jacekowski | yacc: cir=eir? | 03:40 |
| yacc | cir=eir? | 03:40 |
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| jacekowski | yeah, guaranteed speed | 03:40 |
| jacekowski | that you will always get full speed 24/7 | 03:40 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 03:40 | |
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| jacekowski | that's a thing with home stuff | 03:40 |
| SpeedEvil | My net falls over every midnightish. I need to poke them again. | 03:41 |
| spiritd | so i need to compile my own kernel... never did that :D | 03:41 |
| yacc | jacekowski, cable modem, so it's not guaranteed. OTOH, upc seems to have done it's homework this time, I see no practical congestion even in the weekend or evenings, ... | 03:41 |
| MohammadAG | spiritd, got scratchbox? | 03:41 |
| alterego | Columbus is now 7884 lines in 113 files. | 03:41 |
| alterego | And I'm bored. | 03:41 |
| MohammadAG | what's your vertical PC monitor resolution? | 03:41 |
| jacekowski | yacc: thing is that with services that cost like 1k+ you have 100% uptime and uncontended bandwidth | 03:41 |
| yacc | jacekowski, so no, it's not guaranteed, OTOH, my experience as one of the top-3 bandwidth users in Vienna is that they mostly keep their promises ;) | 03:42 |
| jacekowski | well, start using it 24/7 | 03:42 |
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| jacekowski | just downloading stuff from outside their network | 03:42 |
| jacekowski | and you will see | 03:42 |
| yacc | jacekowski, I've been doing it 24/7, using 15-20 mbit/s for months, ... | 03:43 |
| yacc | jacekowski, 10mbit upstream nonstop for bittorrent, that does not care for ISP structure, ... | 03:43 |
| yacc | jacekowski, as I said, I've been told by 2nd/3rd level support that I managed to be in the Top-3 of bandwidth users in Vienna ;) | 03:43 |
| jacekowski | RX bytes:619504305027 (576.9 GiB) TX bytes:8609559888167 (7.8 TiB) | 03:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Jesus. | 03:44 |
| MohammadAG | wtf do you guys download :P | 03:44 |
| yacc | jacekowski, some time ago they had this script that limited speeds over a certain threshold once a month, so I had to phone them, ask for being reenabled, ... | 03:44 |
| jacekowski | porn | 03:44 |
| MohammadAG | HD? | 03:45 |
| spiritd | MohammadAG ... well... have something... but need to install it once again... not sure if what i have is ok... btw what distro I should use for easy-install of whole maemo sdk? ... | 03:45 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: yeah | 03:45 |
| MohammadAG | Ubuntu | 03:45 |
| MohammadAG | or Debian | 03:45 |
| yacc | But they've apologized, and it seems that they've managed to kill that script in September, ... | 03:45 |
| yacc | RX bytes:17531908015 (17.5 GB) TX bytes:108629922052 (108.6 GB) <= that's for slightly over one day. | 03:45 |
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| alterego | jacekowski: Hah, my server: RX bytes:4006049500 (3.7 GiB) TX bytes:3966464529 (3.6 GiB) | 03:45 |
| alterego | You're obviously a lot more popular? :D | 03:45 |
| spiritd | MohammadAG kk ubuntu 10.10 or 10.04? | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | no, they just dl more porn | 03:46 |
| jacekowski | alterego: i host quite a bit of stuff | 03:46 |
| spiritd | i ll use vmware | 03:46 |
| yacc | I managed to do an echo b >/proc/sysrq_trigger on the wrong box. | 03:46 |
| jacekowski | + torrents | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | 10.10 should work | 03:46 |
| BCMM | yacc: that is impressive. | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | mind you, I never tried installing sb on it | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | only upgraded from 10.04 to 10.10 | 03:46 |
| yacc | Which reminded me that my n900 and my desktop PC have more in common nowadays than usual ;) | 03:46 |
| spiritd | MohammadAG whats your distro? ... | 03:46 |
| BCMM | yacc: why were you doing that anyway? | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | 10.10 | 03:46 |
| MohammadAG | upgraded from 10.04 | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | i.e I never reinstalled sb | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | but it should work on plain 10.10 | 03:47 |
| yacc | BCMM: I wanted to reboot the phone quickly experimenting, no idea what exactly, I guess with my WLAN routers ;) | 03:47 |
| spiritd | well i have 10.04 already here... so i ll install it on that... | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | I would have trouble legitimately exceeding 50G with media I have the rights to. | 03:47 |
| BCMM | yacc: hmm, does maemo not have halt -f? | 03:47 |
| SpeedEvil | /mo | 03:47 |
| MohammadAG | it has half | 03:48 |
| MohammadAG | halt* | 03:48 |
| yacc | BCMM: the sysrq trigges does reboot without asking for the PIN again. | 03:48 |
| jacekowski | alterego: are you on 32bit? | 03:48 |
| alterego | jacekowski: no 64 | 03:48 |
| jacekowski | hmm, i was thinking that it could be counter just overflowing on yours | 03:48 |
| yacc | SpeedEvil, yeah, as I say, it's only legal torrents, like Ubuntu. (I've trained often enough that I can say that without starting to laugh). | 03:48 |
| alterego | Unlikely. | 03:49 |
| alterego | There's little traffic through that server at the moment tbh | 03:49 |
| ShadowJK | I once filled my N900 with youtube download through gpodder | 03:49 |
| ShadowJK | over 3g | 03:49 |
| alterego | uptime is 102 days | 03:49 |
| jacekowski | 02:49:33 up 104 days, 10:15, 2 users, load average: 1.07, 1.14, 1.18 | 03:49 |
| yacc | When I remember right, the network counters are 64bit even on 32bit platforms, ... | 03:49 |
| jacekowski | 104 | 03:49 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, how was the eMMC? | 03:49 |
| alterego | Hah :) | 03:49 |
| jacekowski | yacc: nope | 03:49 |
| jacekowski | yacc: iptables counters are 64 bit | 03:49 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, what do you mean? | 03:50 |
| yacc | jacekowski, oh, right, I've been living in 64bit land for some time now ;) | 03:50 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, writing 26GBs directly on device surely wrecked performance | 03:50 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: torents do a lot of updates to same blocks | 03:50 |
| ShadowJK | I did't do torrents. | 03:50 |
| MohammadAG | he said youtube | 03:50 |
| MohammadAG | bbl, studying | 03:51 |
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| ShadowJK | There were some performance issues initially because of the sqlite databases that gpodder used, so I moved .config/gpodder to microsd and there was no jitter while downloading, as 1 megabyte/s sequential write is well within the emmc capabilities | 03:52 |
| jacekowski | http://jacekowski.org/cgi-bin/monitorix.cgi?mode=localhost&graph=all&when=month&color=black | 03:52 |
| alterego | Week 51 aye | 03:53 |
| alterego | Wasn't that a maemo release? | 03:54 |
| alterego | ^.^ | 03:54 |
| jacekowski | no | 03:54 |
| jacekowski | that was me cracking some md5 hashes | 03:54 |
| alterego | Heh | 03:54 |
| alterego | Oh, CPU usage. | 03:54 |
| jacekowski | just note it's in megabytes not megabits | 03:55 |
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| alterego | Yeah, was week 49 maemo release? ^.^ | 03:56 |
| pupnik | for lcuk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/3604535364/ | 03:56 |
| jacekowski | i think so | 03:57 |
| alterego | pupnik: :o | 03:57 |
| nox- | haha | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, writing to the uSD doesn't slow down the device? | 03:57 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: why would it | 03:57 |
| MohammadAG | always had the impression it did | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, nope? | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | interesting | 03:58 |
| nox- | depends on speed/class of the usd too? | 03:58 |
| ShadowJK | On N8x0 the two mmcs were multiplexed and the device can technically just access one of them at a time | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | that would affect speed of writing | 03:58 |
| MohammadAG | not the speed of the device | 03:59 |
| nox- | true | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | But even there, limiting sqlite diskrape to one device and having normal stuff on the other is net improvement | 03:59 |
| MohammadAG | i always thought writing to the uSD was the same as writing to the eMMC | 03:59 |
| MohammadAG | in the sense they'd both rape performance making the device unusable | 03:59 |
| ShadowJK | No | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | It's not cpu driven | 04:00 |
| nox- | depends on how much work the cpu does as opposed to the flashcontroller i guess | 04:00 |
| ShadowJK | It just looks that way because apps and swap are there too | 04:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, stalls in IOWAIT | 04:01 |
| MohammadAG | oh, so if swap was moved to the uSD performance would be better? | 04:01 |
| jacekowski | no | 04:01 |
| jacekowski | uSD is slower than eMMC | 04:01 |
| jacekowski | unless you have very expensive uSD | 04:02 |
| kerio | let's put the swap on a compressed ramdisk! | 04:02 |
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| ShadowJK | I'm running swap on uSD | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | but hmm, thinking about it | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | it may be better | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | because stuff is read more often from emmc than from usd | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | that may work | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG | my uSD isn't mounted | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's easy to test anyway | 04:02 |
| Arkenoi | kerio: i've seen people doing that, win95 era | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | swap parformance may be worse | 04:02 |
| MohammadAG | i don't use it at all | 04:02 |
| jacekowski | but general performance may be better | 04:03 |
| ShadowJK | on the theory that all the demand paging of apps and the databses in $HOME add significant random access writes | 04:03 |
| jacekowski | Arkenoi: android and ramzswap there | 04:03 |
| nox- | Arkenoi, only _that_ windows software iirc was all snakeoil | 04:03 |
| jacekowski | what is with that snakeoil | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | wasn't that ramdoubler | 04:03 |
| jacekowski | i never understood where it came from | 04:03 |
| ShadowJK | and swap is also random access, so putting it on uSD with no other writers should give better perf | 04:04 |
| yacc | jacekowski, well, actually, by splitting the swap to eMMC/uSD and using a class6+ card, it might work well. | 04:04 |
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| ShadowJK | though I think it depends highly on the card. That paper stskeeps found on USB flash drives reverse engineered showed that FTL algorithms ranged from bad to worse | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: lonk? | 04:05 |
| MohammadAG | does swapoff usually take time? | 04:05 |
| yacc | jacekowski, I managed to get satisfying speed out of an AcerOne by adding two 8GB SDHC and stripping via LVM, ... | 04:05 |
| * ShadowJK 'd actually suspect that some class 2 cards will perform better than some class 6 as swap device :-) | 04:05 | |
| yacc | MohammadAG, that depends how much of the swap is used. | 04:05 |
| nox- | jacekowski, you mean where the term comes from? selling ppl useless oil against snakebites id say | 04:05 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, yes. Note you can't swapon a file on vfat, locks up | 04:05 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, it needs to read in the whole swap and make space somewhere for it, so if you've got a couple of GB dirty swap that can take time. | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, it's a swap partition | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | dd if=/sev/zero of=MyDocs/swapfile bs=1M count=700; mkswap mydocs/swapfile; swapon mydocs/swapfile; swapoff /dev/mmcblk0p5(?) | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, read what ShadowJK said | 04:06 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, so they've fixed the swapon on vfat hanging bug then? :-) | 04:06 |
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| * ShadowJK hasn't tested since 1.0 | 04:06 | |
| yacc | MohammadAG, especially if the system has no place to swapout the pages that it pulls in, because then you get "starved-for-memory" slowdown before the out-of-memory killer does its dirty deed ;) | 04:06 |
| MohammadAG | swapoff done | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | let's see | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | mmpf, I mean /media/card :-S | 04:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | not mydocs | 04:07 |
| yacc | Actually, I wonder if somebody that compiles the kernel could add compcache, ... | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | Too many applications open.\nUnable to open additional applications without closing some applications | 04:07 |
| MohammadAG | that's a new error | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and my card has a 2GB ext3 partition | 04:08 |
| yacc | 256MB RAM sounds like a "low-memory" situation that is perfectly situated for compressed memory ;) | 04:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it actually has a swap partition | 04:08 |
| ShadowJK | One thing that significantly slows down things though, is when the amount of writes to swap has exceeded size of swap. I don't mean when swap is fully filled, I mean once 700M has been written to a 700M swap partition | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | (from FR :-D ) | 04:08 |
| MohammadAG | I've never seen that error before | 04:08 |
| derf | Snake oil comes from a Chinese remedy for joint pain. | 04:08 |
| ShadowJK | I have a script that records iostat reading and if writes exceed swap partition size, it turns emmc swap back on, turns off uSD swap, turns on uSD swap, turns of emmc swap | 04:09 |
| yacc | ShadowJK, well, actually, the problem is that the 3 times RAM size rule is massively broken for current systems. Once you've swapped out 256MB on the N900 it starts to crawl, and the bad part of 768MB swap is that it will trash for quite some time before starting to kill apps, ... | 04:09 |
| nox- | derf, joint pain from snake bites? or otherwise? | 04:09 |
| ShadowJK | usually I can noticed from device performance when I've run over | 04:09 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: that's first slow down | 04:09 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: there is second slowdown where swap gets filled | 04:10 |
| derf | nox-: No, the oil came from the snakes. The pain came from, e.g., arthritis. | 04:10 |
| nox- | oh | 04:10 |
| ShadowJK | I don't expect my device would still be working with swap filled :-) | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | the oil came from somebody p.... into the bottles | 04:10 |
| derf | It was popularized by Chinese immigrants in America, but American snakes don't have as much of the active ingredient, so it didn't actually do anything. | 04:10 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, I think it would | 04:10 |
| ShadowJK | yacc: actually the bigger the swapspace the longer it takes before the emmc/usd starts protesting about fragmentation | 04:11 |
| jacekowski | derf: yeah, they don't do anything properly in there | 04:11 |
| nox- | derf, ah interesting | 04:11 |
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| ShadowJK | It depends on the app too. I've been playing widelands alot. Seems to leak memory a bit, I've had perfectly working and smooth device with 600M swap used | 04:12 |
| jacekowski | well depends | 04:12 |
| yacc | ShadowJK, yeah, but my experience is that a too big swap tends to lead to systems that can trash for hours (in the case of desktops) before becoming useful again, just because one stupid app did a calloc(-1, 1), ... | 04:12 |
| jacekowski | as long as swap isn't full | 04:12 |
| jacekowski | memory leak isn't going to be a problem | 04:12 |
| ShadowJK | and after closing widelands, with swap use going back to 100M, I'm not seeing much of the swap fragmentation issue either.. so it depends alot o actual access patterns | 04:12 |
| jacekowski | but once swap fills up | 04:12 |
| jacekowski | that's when shit hits the fan | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlangenöl | 04:12 |
| ShadowJK | for sure :) | 04:13 |
| jacekowski | and buffers are dropped | 04:13 |
| jacekowski | so i/o goes up | 04:13 |
| jacekowski | everything grinds to a halt | 04:13 |
| * alterego did a bit of pruning, 7814 lines in 109 files :) | 04:13 | |
| jacekowski | and takes another couple minutes/hours/days for system to go into state where oom killer does it's job | 04:13 |
| yacc | jacekowski, yeah, big swap is good for memory leaking stuff, but in practice if the memory leaked stuff is being accessed (e.g. it memory leaks in smaller units than the page size), you are in deep shit ;) | 04:13 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, heh even mentiones the win95 ram compression thing | 04:14 |
| ShadowJK | Luckily widelands leaks in significantly bigger units than pagesize :) | 04:14 |
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| jacekowski | get a valgrind | 04:14 |
| jacekowski | and run it | 04:14 |
| jacekowski | there is one game i'm missing | 04:15 |
| jacekowski | homm | 04:15 |
| ShadowJK | oooherr.. comitted_as is almost a gigabyte on my N900 :) | 04:15 |
| jacekowski | there was a homm clone for windows mobile | 04:15 |
| ShadowJK | i think I saw a hmm2 thing if that's the same | 04:15 |
| yacc | jacekowski, the trouble is that with the >8GB swap that Ubuntu wanted to create by default, my desktop would need hours if not days before even filling up the swap where it was not useable (when Ctrl-Alt-F1 takes 20 minutes, and text mode input echo is not instant the box is mostly unusable, IMHO), ... | 04:15 |
| yacc | And before filling up the swap the OOM killer does not start it's work. | 04:15 |
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| jacekowski | yacc: well i solved it by having memory limit set to 4G | 04:16 |
| jacekowski | yacc: and swap 2x that size | 04:16 |
| ShadowJK | So I wonder if one of those overcommit settings place the limit at physical+swap - comitted_as | 04:16 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: depends on settings | 04:16 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: you can either set it to swap+ram | 04:16 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: or just ram | 04:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hmm, is utopia ironic in most contexts? | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or is that just me being cynical. | 04:18 |
| yacc | jacekowski, won't work for my desktop, got 8GB physical memory, plus 2GB virtual swap, ... | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, jacekowski DocScrutinizer http://i53.tinypic.com/21b3k7s.jpg | 04:19 |
| MohammadAG | swap (on uSD) and ram are almost full | 04:19 |
| yacc | jacekowski, the really cool part about compcache is that it's so much faster than normal hdd based swap that OOM killer starts almost immediatly when memory fills up :) | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | ah, closed fennec and comitted_as went down to 600 :) | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: OOM | 04:20 |
| nox- | as someone once put it, fennec `eats ram like candy'... | 04:20 |
| kerio | omnomnom | 04:20 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, that happened to me when I had a small (256M) swap, or when I first swapoff mmcblkp03 before having other swap active | 04:20 |
| MohammadAG | 128MB swap :P | 04:21 |
| ShadowJK | The background daemons and preloaders in n900 actually voluntarily shut down when you swapoff entirely | 04:21 |
| ShadowJK | (though with shitty widgets and alike you can still easily run into unusably slow device) | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, but CTRL+SHIFT+X got me a terminal, so it's a UI thing | 04:22 |
| MohammadAG | can someone check EvilAlarm's code? i'm away from my PC | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | Yes, kernel sent signal and ke-recv (probably?) passed it on, causing some things like, I'm speculating, browserd to terminate voluntarily | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | I never looked that closely at how much shuts down | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | see how it checks time, i have a feeling it uses a QTimer that checks time each second | 04:23 |
| MohammadAG | could be wrong though | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | maemo has fault tolerance and plan B setups in random places :-) | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG | [ 4976.248565] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered | 04:24 |
| MohammadAG | ha | 04:24 |
| * alterego wonders how hard it'd be to get the meego SGX into Maemo | 04:26 | |
| alterego | We could have tear free UX .. | 04:26 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, very | 04:26 |
| * alterego puts it on his list of things to look at. | 04:26 | |
| alterego | MohammadAG: really? | 04:26 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, check PM | 04:26 |
| alterego | The kernel space is that different? | 04:26 |
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| jacekowski | new episode of primeval | 04:27 |
| alterego | scene it | 04:28 |
| alterego | One yesterday too. | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | it's already PREd | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | Primeval.4x02.HDTV_XviD-FoV | 04:28 |
| jacekowski | i'm just wondering if FoV is british scene group or something else | 04:29 |
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| alterego | Think it's about bed time for me. | 04:32 |
| * alterego checks his latest build. | 04:32 | |
| * alterego contemplates writing unit tests. | 04:33 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://thpmaemo.blogspot.com/2010/12/qw-01-is-now-available-for-maemo-5.html | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | What was this game called on Windows 98? | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ambrosia released it as: http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/barrack/ | 04:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jezzball! | 04:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Useless people. | 04:36 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 04:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Man, I can't believe the 2000s was last decade. | 04:41 |
| alterego | :) | 04:42 |
| Dassu | Me too :/ | 04:42 |
| Dassu | sucks to be old | 04:42 |
| alterego | We are the future! | 04:42 |
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| NIN101 | gn8 | 04:46 |
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| daxt | guys i want to install unicode fonts of our language into N900 , how do i do it ? | 04:50 |
| MohammadAG | /usr/share/fonts i suppose | 04:51 |
| MohammadAG | or /home/user/.fonts for user only | 04:51 |
| daxt | thanks Prophet MohammedAG (PBUY) | 04:51 |
| ShadowJK | I installed the droid fonts | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | They have some things I don't like, but it's more of a problem with unicode itself | 04:52 |
| ShadowJK | or it might actually be coming from the nokia fonts, *shrug* | 04:52 |
| daxt | who is using transliteration to type on N900 ? | 04:53 |
| daxt | MohammedAG how do u type Arabic on ur phone ? | 04:55 |
| MohammadAG | I don't :P | 04:55 |
| daxt | what ? | 04:56 |
| MohammadAG | I don't use arabic on my phone | 04:56 |
| daxt | oh ok | 04:56 |
| MohammadAG | Latinised arabic ftw | 04:56 |
| pupnik | have any of you ever been able to control your eyes independently | 04:56 |
| daxt | i can | 04:56 |
| MohammadAG | there's always ukeyboard | 04:56 |
| MohammadAG | pupnik, anyone can? | 04:56 |
| daxt | i can change the left eye without moving the right | 04:57 |
| pupnik | i met someone who could do it like a reptile | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 04:57 |
| daxt | MohammedAG not anyone , only if u meditate | 04:57 |
| BCMM | pupnik: it always bothers me, because it totally should be possible | 04:57 |
| pupnik | yes he was very advanced in meditation | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | well | 04:57 |
| pupnik | daxt: did looking at a mirror help? | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | I can't control my hands and legs separately | 04:57 |
| MohammadAG | = I fail at drums in rock band :P | 04:58 |
| pupnik | MohammadAG: that's a similar kind of mental focus | 04:58 |
| daxt | pupnik not a mirror , an object is the starting point | 04:58 |
| pupnik | or de-focus | 04:58 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 04:58 |
| MohammadAG | but I never practiced it | 04:58 |
| BCMM | the idea of pointing both eyes outwards somehow seems completely impossible or painful, and yet for each eye it's just a perfectly normal position... | 04:58 |
| daxt | MohammedAG if u want to become a prophet , begin practising :D | 04:59 |
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| pupnik | daxt: do you 'divert' the same eye as your dominant hand (left/right)? | 04:59 |
| daxt | yes | 05:00 |
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| daxt | if ur right hand is dominent , u can move ur left eye :D | 05:00 |
| jacekowski | MohammadAG: how does it look, that latinised arabic | 05:00 |
| MohammadAG | like this? | 05:01 |
| jacekowski | that's english | 05:01 |
| MohammadAG | we just use english with numbers :P | 05:01 |
| MohammadAG | even google translate allows it | 05:01 |
| MohammadAG | you can type in phonetic arabic, basically, what something sounds like in arabic but in english | 05:01 |
| jacekowski | so like allah akbar, kaboom | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | yes | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | try it in google translate | 05:02 |
| jacekowski | and i noticed "habibi" is quite often used | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | Mjy | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | my love* | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | damn enter key | 05:02 |
| MohammadAG | though i suggest you don't use that, unless you're gay :P | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | literally | 05:03 |
| jacekowski | well, hmm, strange | 05:03 |
| jacekowski | somebody at work uses it quite often when speaking to other people in arabic | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | he's probably using it in the context of "dude" | 05:03 |
| MohammadAG | but literally, it means "my love" | 05:04 |
| MohammadAG | jacekowski, type habibi in google translate | 05:04 |
| MohammadAG | just have the phonetic thingy checked | 05:04 |
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| jacekowski | Arabic to English translation | 05:05 |
| jacekowski | habibi | 05:05 |
| jacekowski | doesn't work | 05:05 |
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| jacekowski | do i have to write it in reverse? | 05:05 |
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| MohammadAG | do you have the "Allow phonetic typing" check box checked? | 05:05 |
| * ShadowJK types arabic on his N900: 123456789 | 05:05 | |
| MohammadAG | no, it works on my N900 | 05:05 |
| jacekowski | i'm doing it on my pc | 05:06 |
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| MohammadAG | again, do you have the checkbox ticked? | 05:06 |
| jacekowski | no checkbox | 05:06 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 05:06 |
| MohammadAG | javascript disabled? | 05:06 |
| jacekowski | enabled | 05:06 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 05:06 |
| MohammadAG | refresh | 05:06 |
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| MohammadAG | set it to arabic, auto detect doesn't work | 05:07 |
| jacekowski | still nothing | 05:07 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 05:07 |
| MohammadAG | I don't see the option anymore | 05:07 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 05:08 |
| jacekowski | i'm not planing to write anything in arabic anyways | 05:08 |
| MohammadAG | yeah but why was it removed | 05:08 |
| pupnik | here's one: if you look into a mirror and tilt your head left and right, do your eyes auto-level? | 05:09 |
| MohammadAG | it's even in the support page | 05:10 |
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| MohammadAG | sigh | 05:11 |
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| MohammadAG | I used it last week for russian to english | 05:11 |
| MohammadAG | oh well | 05:11 |
| MohammadAG | anyone interested in porting Qt to the PS3? :P | 05:12 |
| jacekowski | well, linux is working there now | 05:12 |
| jacekowski | so where is the problem? | 05:12 |
| MohammadAG | natively | 05:12 |
| MohammadAG | i.e for GameOS apps | 05:13 |
| psycho_oreos | cross compiling, heh | 05:13 |
| MohammadAG | OtherOS is like GameOS - 3D acceleration | 05:13 |
| MohammadAG | so it's crap | 05:13 |
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| * alterego wonders why he's still awake at 3am | 05:20 | |
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| MohammadAG | why not? | 05:20 |
| alterego | Yeah, I guess you could look at it that way :P | 05:21 |
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| daxt | guys /etc/hosts file in my N900 contains "127.0.0.1 Nokia-N900 localhost" | 05:21 |
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| daxt | is it ok > | 05:22 |
| daxt | or shall i add more dns values into that ? | 05:22 |
| BCMM | MohammadAG: are you installing maemo on a ps3 or something? | 05:22 |
| MohammadAG | yes, it's ok | 05:22 |
| MohammadAG | BCMM, Qt != maemo :P | 05:22 |
| BCMM | yeah, i know | 05:22 |
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| daxt | how do i add more name servers into hosts file ? same as other linux formats , such as nameserver 8.8.4.4 | 05:23 |
| daxt | ? | 05:23 |
| MohammadAG | it is linux | 05:23 |
| SpeedEvil | you mean /etc/resolv.conf? | 05:23 |
| SpeedEvil | nameservers don't go into hosts | 05:24 |
| daxt | ah yes | 05:24 |
| daxt | resolv.conf | 05:24 |
| SpeedEvil | also - /etc/resolv.conf points to dsnmasq - which does the shizzle. | 05:24 |
| alterego | It works as it normally does on desktop, but be warned. | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | hm.. my main desktop's uptime correlates quite well with my distro being 3 major releases out of date.. | 05:24 |
| alterego | Heh | 05:24 |
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| SpeedEvil | I don't know what runs nsmasq and how it's setup | 05:24 |
| ShadowJK | .. I have older kernel than stock n900 | 05:25 |
| SpeedEvil | It might be ICD - which is closed | 05:25 |
| alterego | Right' gonna go to sleep now g'night folks | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | cat /proc/version | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Linux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@rhl) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #5 Áù 3ÔÂ 4 13:37:03 CST 2006 | 05:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Oldest system up I think | 05:26 |
| BCMM | daxt: even windows uses the same format for the hosts file :) | 05:26 |
| * SpeedEvil stabs vendor of above kernel. | 05:26 | |
| daxt | BCMM ya bill gates stole the idea | 05:27 |
| spiritd | is this channel logged somewhere? | 05:27 |
| BCMM | \WINDOWS\system32\drivers\etc\ has several files that would be present in a real /etc/ directory, oddly. i presume it's something to do with having lifted the BSD networking stack | 05:28 |
| nox- | daxt, BCMM, `on windows, networking was an afterthought...' | 05:28 |
| nox- | spiritd, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | 05:30 |
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| jacekowski | spiritd: every irc channel is logged | 05:31 |
| jacekowski | spiritd: sometimes not in public, but any channel bigger than 3 peopel will be logged by at least one person | 05:32 |
| BCMM | some have rules against public logging | 05:32 |
| jacekowski | BCMM: win98 had bsd stack | 05:32 |
| jacekowski | well 9x | 05:32 |
| jacekowski | win nt based have different stack | 05:33 |
| jacekowski | that's just using same files | 05:33 |
| jacekowski | and was designed in compatible way | 05:33 |
| daxt | guys do u think app in this page http://www.saravali.de/ can be ported into N900 ? | 05:33 |
| BCMM | hmm, i wonder what sort of line breaks they use in /etc/hosts :) | 05:34 |
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| jacekowski | BCMM: on windows or on bsd? | 05:34 |
| BCMM | aww, they use windows ones. that's boring. | 05:34 |
| BCMM | anyway, whatever it's origins are, it's surprising suddenly feeling that at home on windows... | 05:35 |
| BCMM | config files, proper config files with # as the comment character... | 05:35 |
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| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, I have a 2.9.* device | 05:39 |
| MohammadAG | it's a Dreambox set top box | 05:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | That's impressive. | 05:42 |
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| luke-jr | mining is addictive x.x | 05:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I looked at some tutorials. | 05:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: No fucking way am I touching minecraft. | 05:43 |
| luke-jr | not talking about any dumb game :p | 05:43 |
| luke-jr | mining bitcoins | 05:43 |
| SpeedEvil | oh - that | 05:43 |
| jacekowski | i looked at minecraft videos today | 05:43 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a n900 client? | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | shrug | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | I would be _way_ too addicted. | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | build one, it's probably useless tho | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Depends on the algorithms. | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | Some algorithms are designed so that they are uncacheable. | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | these are | 05:44 |
| SpeedEvil | This causes a remarkable parity between processors. | 05:44 |
| luke-jr | most of the high volume mining is proprietary GPUs with OpenCL miners | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | I.E. n900 and fastest available processor may be only a single digit multiple per core out. | 05:45 |
| luke-jr | I have 4 computers mining, and barely making 0.03 BTC per block | 05:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Uncachable algorithms rely on large arrays, and random accesses to them. | 05:45 |
| jacekowski | what is it | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | that bitcoin thing | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: digital currency | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | so what is the point | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | how do i exchange it for real thing | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | like food | 05:46 |
| luke-jr | MtGox | 05:46 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It's the currency of the future or someting. | 05:46 |
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| luke-jr | it exchanges at about 30 USD cents per bitcoin currently | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | who exchanges it? | 05:46 |
| jacekowski | and how are you mining these bitcoins? | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | some guy | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: CPU time | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | lots of it | 05:47 |
| jacekowski | so you sell your cpu time | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | not quite | 05:47 |
| luke-jr | but sortof | 05:47 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 05:47 |
| jacekowski | explain | 05:47 |
| MohammadAG | I have an idle i5 | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | the CPU time is spent doing useless maths, and also operating the bitcoin functionality | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: want to mine for me? :P | 05:48 |
| MohammadAG | what do I get in return? | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | nothing! :P | 05:48 |
| luke-jr | course, you could always mine for yourself <.< | 05:48 |
| MohammadAG | well duh | 05:48 |
| MohammadAG | how do I do that? | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | first get a BitCoin address | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Getting_started | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | then join a mining pool like http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | or just mine alone, but that's much harder | 05:49 |
| luke-jr | then you're competing against all the other mines | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | mining pool is cooperative mining :P | 05:50 |
| SpeedEvil | And how long on a normal CPU does one coin take? | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: depends on competition :P | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | and the transaction fees people offer | 05:50 |
| MohammadAG | so the faster the CPU the better? | 05:50 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: pretty much | 05:50 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I mean to create - at the moment - say your computer | 05:50 |
| MohammadAG | and how much is a bitcoin again? | 05:51 |
| MohammadAG | in USDs | 05:51 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: huh? | 05:51 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: currently they trade at 30 cents | 05:51 |
| MohammadAG | oh, cents | 05:51 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 05:51 |
| SpeedEvil | luke-jr: I was wondering how much electricity you were spending per 30c | 05:51 |
| luke-jr | SpeedEvil: I don't pay for electricity on my dedicated servers :x | 05:51 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, how much time does a bitcoin take on say, an i5 | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: no idea, don't have anything that fast | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | and again, depends on the competition | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | each block generates 50 BTC total | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | if you're mining alone and get the block, you get it all | 05:52 |
| luke-jr | if you're mining with a pool, it gets split up fairly | 05:52 |
| nox- | same resolver code so yes | 05:53 |
| nox- | oops scrollback fail .) | 05:53 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 05:53 |
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| jacekowski | MohammadAG: faq says that they generate 6 bitcoins/h in whole network | 05:53 |
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| jacekowski | to me it's braindead idea | 05:54 |
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| luke-jr | jacekowski: which? bitcoins or mining them? | 05:55 |
| jacekowski | all of it | 05:56 |
| MohammadAG | so say I earn 30c an hour | 05:57 |
| luke-jr | (highly unlikely) | 05:58 |
| MohammadAG | $7.2 a day | 05:58 |
| jacekowski | more like a year | 05:58 |
| MohammadAG | i'll pass | 05:58 |
| jacekowski | i saw a project somewhere on interweb | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | all you're doing is processing transactions, what do you expect to get for it? :P | 05:59 |
| jacekowski | where they were paying for cpu time | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 05:59 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: transactions? | 05:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | meego-community | 05:59 |
| MohammadAG | luke-jr, I read your earlier message as $30 per bitcoin | 05:59 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: yeah | 05:59 |
| MohammadAG | so i was interested | 06:00 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr: where are these transactions coming from | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: people spending bitcoins | 06:00 |
| jacekowski | i don't think that thing is so popular that you need network of computers to process them | 06:00 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: the encryption stuff… | 06:00 |
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| luke-jr | and distributed db | 06:00 |
| SpeedEvil | The idea is that there is a finite money supply | 06:00 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't that mean i can sniff it? | 06:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Which takes some effort to populate | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | and no central authority over it | 06:01 |
| SpeedEvil | then scarcity takes over | 06:01 |
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| luke-jr | MohammadAG: you can | 06:01 |
| luke-jr | but the encryption and distributed db means you can't steal without getting private keys | 06:01 |
| nox- | lets hope the keys are better secured than the ps3's :) | 06:02 |
| jacekowski | so everybody will know how much everybody else has | 06:02 |
| MohammadAG | nox-, zing | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: not exactly | 06:02 |
| MohammadAG | xD | 06:02 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: balances aren't per-individual ☺ | 06:02 |
| jacekowski | nox-: well, they are using ecdsa | 06:02 |
| MohammadAG | nox-, the ps3 also holds the psp master keys so... | 06:02 |
| jacekowski | nox-: and hmm, so far i've seen two serious implementation problems in ecdsa | 06:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | @Linux Foundation people using terms like "intellectual property" as if they have real meaning is scary. | 06:02 |
| jacekowski | nox-: winrar licence generation | 06:03 |
| jacekowski | nox-: and ps3 | 06:03 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 06:03 |
| nox- | jacekowski, the were using a constant in place of what should be random data | 06:03 |
| nox- | jacekowski, (in case you didnt see the 27c3 talk :) | 06:03 |
| jacekowski | i did | 06:03 |
| jacekowski | well, it's a implementation fail | 06:03 |
| nox- | ok :) | 06:03 |
| jacekowski | thing is that with this thing | 06:04 |
| jacekowski | if somebody finds out that there was a screw up | 06:04 |
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| jacekowski | and there are only 65k possible private keys | 06:04 |
| jacekowski | like with last debian disaster | 06:04 |
| jacekowski | ugh | 06:04 |
| jacekowski | shit will hit the fan | 06:04 |
| luke-jr | jacekowski: if EFF accepts it, they must have audited it | 06:04 |
| jacekowski | well, openssl code was audited | 06:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Was openssl code - as edited by monkeys audited? | 06:06 |
| jacekowski | i'm not going to trust thing like that | 06:07 |
| jacekowski | where major screw up cannot be fixed easily | 06:07 |
| luke-jr | tbh, if I get payments in BTC, I plan to convert immediately :P | 06:07 |
| jacekowski | with banks if shit happens | 06:07 |
| jacekowski | they can just block all access to people outside | 06:08 |
| jacekowski | regenrate keys | 06:08 |
| jacekowski | tough, somebody will have no access to his money | 06:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Or breakthroughs in quantum computation meaning bitcoins are useless | 06:08 |
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| jacekowski | but it's not going to be stolen within seconds | 06:08 |
| jacekowski | like with bitcoins | 06:08 |
| jacekowski | where it's online only | 06:08 |
| luke-jr | actually | 06:09 |
| luke-jr | since the bitcoin db has the full history, everyone could agree to roll it back and replace teh system | 06:09 |
| jacekowski | well, sort of | 06:09 |
| jacekowski | imagine if somebody would find that bug | 06:10 |
| luke-jr | true | 06:10 |
| jacekowski | and not share it with everybody | 06:10 |
| daxt_ | guys is there an app which reads offline maps while ur on the go and do not consume OTA internet ? | 06:10 |
| jacekowski | just steal | 06:10 |
| jacekowski | and cash in as soon as possible | 06:10 |
| nox- | SpeedEvil, there was a u.s. govt job posting some time ago looking for a quantum computing expert saying `assume working hw'... | 06:10 |
| jacekowski | nox-: there are working quantum computers | 06:10 |
| pupnik | nice | 06:10 |
| jacekowski | there was company that announced it couple years back | 06:11 |
| jacekowski | that they have very simple 4 qbit quantum computer | 06:11 |
| jacekowski | fully working | 06:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Scary: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2011-January/003022.html | 06:11 |
| nox- | jacekowski, yeah but those guys seem to have bigger ones than publicly known... | 06:11 |
| jacekowski | GeneralAntilles: well, that article is partialy right | 06:12 |
| yacc | jacekowski, yeah, but such requirements are "usual", e.g. I've been asked for >5 years commercial Android experience last year by an agent, .... | 06:15 |
| yacc | jacekowski, in this the customer has been Deutsche Bahn, ... | 06:15 |
| jacekowski | as in, there has to be some way for content provider that when he sells his content that there will be no people that will just post it on the internet because they can | 06:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is fucking insane. | 06:16 |
| jacekowski | but DRMs are not way to go | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | jacekowski: why? | 06:16 |
| SpeedEvil | At least for most content that can be ripped from otehr sources. | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most people are willing to pay for content if it's worthwhile and reasonably priced. | 06:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - fair use. | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | The problem these days is that most content is neither. | 06:16 |
| jacekowski | GeneralAntilles: yes, but some people are not | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | jacekowski: sure, some people also shoplift. | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | But those aren't the majority | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | and they wont pay however draconian you make your DRM. | 06:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | DRM really only punishes your customers. | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | DRM can be circumvented | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | Speaking personally. | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | and it ussualy hits legitimate users the most | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | I have bought quite a few ebooks from fictionwise.com | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | so drm isn't the way to go | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | that's one | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | However - I only buy unencrypted ones. | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | some content is avaliable only in some contries | 06:17 |
| jacekowski | which is wrong | 06:17 |
| SpeedEvil | As I can't do what I want to do with the books otherwise. | 06:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | SpeedEvil: Baen is good for those. | 06:18 |
| jacekowski | thing is that when i buy some stuff | 06:18 |
| jacekowski | or license it | 06:18 |
| SpeedEvil | (rip to html, pop through a backreference script so I can click people and get links to their declaration) | 06:18 |
| jacekowski | as some would like to say | 06:18 |
| SpeedEvil | GeneralAntilles: Indeed. | 06:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately MeeGo's customers are OEMs. | 06:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which means the project doesn't have any of our best interests at heart. | 06:18 |
| jacekowski | i should be allowed to play it as many times as i want, with any hardware i like, and then sell/give it to somebody else later on | 06:18 |
| yacc | GeneralAntilles, only if you like Sci-Fi/Fantasy, ... | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | yacc: well, sure. | 06:19 |
| SpeedEvil | fictionwise has a slightly wider range of stuff | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | yacc: but it's an example of a publisher doing the right think | 06:19 |
| yacc | GeneralAntilles, actually, it's webscription nowadays, there are other publishers on webscription for some time. | 06:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | so we should be voting with our wallets and supporting it. | 06:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I have been. | 06:19 |
| yacc | Although the monthly collections are done only by Baen. | 06:19 |
| SpeedEvil | To a limited extent, admittedly. | 06:19 |
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| yacc | Well, the issue is not even the price, but the offered payment forms are not necessarily convinient to Europeans, ... | 06:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | yacc: ah, well. | 06:21 |
| yacc | And the ARCs are kind of ripoffs, IMHO. | 06:21 |
| jacekowski | well, paypal, cards | 06:21 |
| jacekowski | everybody has one now | 06:21 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't have problems with ARCs | 06:21 |
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| jacekowski | arcs? | 06:21 |
| nox- | drm is not a solution, and at least the online music shops know it already | 06:21 |
| yacc | jacekowski, not everyone ;) | 06:21 |
| jacekowski | nox-: well, lot of people know it | 06:21 |
| nox- | true | 06:21 |
| jacekowski | nox-: why dvd's are released couple months after premiere | 06:21 |
| yacc | jacekowski, Advanced Reader Copy or something like that. Basically a version of the book as it is being delivered by the author to the publisher, without proofreading. | 06:22 |
| jacekowski | nox-: to make sure that they made all profit from people watching it in cinema | 06:22 |
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| SpeedEvil | yacc: It's post first-proof AIUI | 06:22 |
| pupnik | if you give people convenient and free access to media they want, you can slip in some degree of advertising to pay for the eyeballs | 06:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Galleys are what they call those in the industry. | 06:22 |
| jacekowski | nox-: everybody knows it's not efective, but it's free for them at the moment | 06:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://publishingcentral.com/articles/20030409-1-0a1c.html | 06:23 |
| jacekowski | nox-: as in, money was spent developing that drm technology in dvd's | 06:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I've not found major problems with ARCs. | 06:23 |
| jacekowski | nox-: so they add it, and it stops some people from copying it | 06:23 |
| yacc | jacekowski, well, not exactly, a R5LD release works well enough for a typical home screen, ... | 06:24 |
| jacekowski | r5 releases are coming from russian dvds | 06:24 |
| yacc | SpeedEvil, well, they ask a high price for them, that's somehow understandable, but they expect you to buy the proofed version too, which rubs me wrong. | 06:24 |
| jacekowski | and there is less r5 releases now than it used to be | 06:25 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC you get the real version too if you download it later | 06:25 |
| yacc | jacekowski, I know, but in practice R5LD is near perfect for home consumption, ... | 06:25 |
| jacekowski | i would be happy to pay for a movie if i could watch it without any problems without any additional advertisments | 06:26 |
| jacekowski | without any drms | 06:26 |
| yacc | jacekowski, actually, the dubbing is kind of a problem you've not got mostly, I've noticed that quite a bit of movies are still "lectored" in Polish, ... | 06:26 |
| nox- | exactly | 06:26 |
| jacekowski | but nobody is distributing movies like that | 06:26 |
| nox- | jacekowski, http://www.geekologie.com/image.php?path=/2010/02/25/piracy-full.jpg | 06:26 |
| yacc | jacekowski, worse, they distribute it DRMed as pay per view after the DVD release, ... | 06:26 |
| jacekowski | with torrents it's just click and it's here ready | 06:27 |
| yacc | jacekowski, at a price where I can rent it for almost a week from a DVD rental shop for a 24h viewing period, ... | 06:27 |
| jacekowski | if i could pay with same click - no problem | 06:27 |
| yacc | jacekowski, yeah, mediatomb seems to handle the problem of preprocessing stuff on the fly for the PS3 just fine :) | 06:27 |
| nox- | jacekowski, yeah, like amazon mp3s etc | 06:27 |
| jacekowski | possibly with option of like 10 minute sample | 06:28 |
| jacekowski | so if within 10 minutes you decide that it's crap | 06:28 |
| jacekowski | you just get your money back | 06:28 |
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| yacc | jacekowski, yeah, the problem is that even Amazon MP3 does not compare to the ease-of-use of torrents, ... | 06:30 |
| daxt_ | guys i am running freoffice on my N900 and it renders unicode text awefully , is there a better alternative ? | 06:30 |
| yacc | jacekowski, e.g. compare trying to buy all relevant mp3s for your daughter, versus pulling a top-100 torrent once a month, and let her pick the mp3 via Samba from your box? | 06:31 |
| nox- | yeah there's still room for improvement :) | 06:32 |
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| yacc | jacekowski, with amazon I basically have to supervise her "shopping" for quite a bit of time, or do it for her, while just pulling regular updates is a trivial thing to do. It does not even take much longer, in some way it's even faster, because pulling 500MB or 5MB makes not much of a difference (at least if the torrent is well seeded) when you pull 10MB/s => so it's 50s versus 0.5s, but it takes longer than one minute to select the relevant songs on Amazon | 06:34 |
| yacc | , especially if you are not shopping for yourself, ... | 06:34 |
| pupnik | do kids share mp3s via phone bluetooth push? | 06:34 |
| yacc | pupnik, probably, ... | 06:35 |
| MohammadAG | yes, we do | 06:35 |
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| pupnik | i mean non-computer geek kids | 06:36 |
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| pupnik | well then they shouldn't have much trouble getting the latest hit song | 06:36 |
| yacc | pupnik, mine is quite unhappy that she overrode me, because she got the touchscreen mobile all peergroup kids got, but it's rather uncool when it comes to Internet (GPRS only, unmaintained early Webkit browser, and with GPRS the included youtube client is kind of worthless) ;) | 06:37 |
| nightwalk | Anyone have any idea if maemo works on the droid 2? | 06:37 |
| pupnik | heheh | 06:37 |
| yacc | pupnik, yeah, they do, although I personally prefer the USB cable for home loading ;) | 06:38 |
| yacc | pupnik, well, I wanted to sell her an Android (with UMTS), ... | 06:38 |
| pupnik | what did she get? | 06:38 |
| yacc | pupnik, but she insisted that she wants that Samsung trash ;) | 06:38 |
| yacc | pupnik, Samsung Star. | 06:38 |
| pupnik | the bada phone??? | 06:38 |
| yacc | no idea what OS, but it's a closed Samsung-only OS. Bada or Jet? No idea, no one, including Samsung specifies what OS is included, ... | 06:39 |
| pupnik | hey that's affordable | 06:39 |
| pupnik | what u complanin about :) | 06:39 |
| yacc | pupnik, these guys are just user-unfriendly, e.g. you need to serve up JAD files via a http server (accessible via Internet, because the only connectivity it got is GPRS), clicking on a JAD file on the memory card just results in "unsupported file type" => Samsung even claims that the only source of apps is samsung.com, guess they want to cash in on their phones, ... | 06:41 |
| yacc | pupnik, well, I would have prefered to spend twice the money so she gets a sensible phone, so she does not clamor for a new one after one year, ... | 06:41 |
| yacc | pupnik, funny thing, money seldom is an issue, family politics are an issue. | 06:42 |
| pupnik | i understand | 06:42 |
| pupnik | but to a young person a year is a long time | 06:42 |
| yacc | pupnik, back then I could have bought her a 300€ phone and my wife would have just okayed it, ... | 06:42 |
| yacc | pupnik, but replacing the Samsung after one year is "family politically" a non-starter ;) | 06:43 |
| pupnik | good! | 06:43 |
| * yacc just realized that the same game is played in his family that was played by his parents when he was a kid. | 06:43 | |
| pupnik | :) .. that's a well-styled phone! | 06:44 |
| yacc | Was the same discussions how to argue that you need toy X, not about the money, *sigh* | 06:44 |
| yacc | well, the Samsung sucks. | 06:44 |
| yacc | E.g. it does not support most of the claimed codecs. At least not when ffmpeg, mencoder or vlc are used to generate the videos. | 06:45 |
| pupnik | oh dear | 06:45 |
| pupnik | "Touchwiz OS" | 06:45 |
| yacc | Might be that it does support the codecs, but if so, then it has some side conditions like specific bitrates, that are not documented, ... | 06:46 |
| yacc | So after a very frustrated afternoon I've postponed my project to put all of Spongebob onto the memory card, ... | 06:46 |
| daxt_ | what is the best unicode word processor for maemo ? | 06:46 |
| pupnik | http://forum.dailymobile.se/index.php?topic=10224.0 great lookin cheapo device | 06:46 |
| yacc | daxt_, you really want to do wordprocessing on that keyboard? | 06:47 |
| pupnik | yacc: here's another great looking 100 euro phone http://images.pricerunner.com/product/image/135171017/LG-GD880-Mini.jpg | 06:47 |
| daxt_ | yacc no i want it to render my unicode fonts properly when i open files :D | 06:47 |
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| yacc | It's a really nice keyboard, for messaging, or emergency ssh hacks, ... | 06:47 |
| Termana | good morning | 06:48 |
| daxt_ | i tried freoffice and it really sux when come to rendering unicode | 06:48 |
| pupnik | moin Termana | 06:48 |
| yacc | pupnik, yeah, but you get acceptable Android devices slightly over 100€ | 06:48 |
| yacc | Actually if you can accept a "noname" device, Vodafone sells one for 100€ straight. | 06:49 |
| yacc | Ok, I think I'm gonna crash now for a couple of hours. | 06:49 |
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| daxt_ | anybody care to help me to find a good word processor that renders unicode properly ??? | 06:50 |
| yacc | Tried abiword? | 06:50 |
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| yacc | ok, night. | 06:51 |
| daxt_ | cannot install abiword , unsatisfied dependancies :( | 06:51 |
| daxt_ | repository problem ? | 06:52 |
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| pupnik | use apt-get and install the dependencies manually | 06:54 |
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| nightwalk | Anyone know anything about any efforts at running maemo on a droid or droid 2? Google failed me once again :/ | 06:58 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: none | 06:59 |
| pupnik | nightwalk: i'm not aware of maemo5 running on any other devices | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | that would be copyright infringement | 06:59 |
| Termana | nightwalk, no efforts that I know of | 06:59 |
| luke-jr | it would also be a waste of time since Maemo is DEAD | 06:59 |
| Termana | luke-jr, don't be silly, no one would not do it because of that | 06:59 |
| Termana | luke-jr, eg. Zoom2 port | 06:59 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: 'copyright infringement'? how so? | 06:59 |
| nightwalk | GPL'ed code can be used anywhere | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: Maemo is proprietary Nokia "intellectual property"; someone would need to license it | 07:00 |
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| luke-jr | and Nokia is unlikely to do that especially for a dead platform | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | Maemo isn't GPL | 07:00 |
| luke-jr | maybe 40% of it is free software | 07:00 |
| MohammadAG | it's FUBAR | 07:00 |
| MohammadAG | jk :p | 07:00 |
| Termana | :p | 07:00 |
| MohammadAG | 47 iirc | 07:01 |
| MohammadAG | ~openness | 07:01 |
| infobot | openness is, like, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html | 07:01 |
| nightwalk | Ok...fine...the bits that *are* GPL (which is almost everything) have to have the source made available, and can be used anywhere, for (almost) anything | 07:01 |
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| luke-jr | nightwalk: but 47% of Maemo isn't Maemo | 07:01 |
| luke-jr | it's Mer | 07:01 |
| luke-jr | and that's discontinued too | 07:01 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 07:01 |
| MohammadAG | thinking of continuing it | 07:01 |
| * luke-jr gives MohammadAG a weird look | 07:02 | |
| nightwalk | Irrelevant. All someone like me would need are the basics to have been taken care of. You know....what desktop distros do ;) | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: the basics aren't GPL | 07:02 |
| nightwalk | Well...except that maemo is .deb-based I guess. Worst package format ever | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | LOL fail | 07:02 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, I got a call today from a mental hospital saying they were looking for someone in #maemo | 07:02 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, I think I know who it is now | 07:02 |
| luke-jr | .deb is basically the best, for binaris | 07:02 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, you want me to hate you right? | 07:02 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, infobot? | 07:03 |
| Termana | heh no. | 07:03 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: .deb is the hardest-to-make of the bunch, and dpkg wedges *constantly* | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: he's joking | 07:03 |
| luke-jr | he has to be | 07:03 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, you? | 07:03 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, someone closer to your side of the world | 07:03 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, hardest = 3 minutes for me | 07:04 |
| nightwalk | Can't do this because of package installations being partially completed...can't uninstall because of package installs only partially completed....utter stupidity | 07:04 |
| Termana | someone with the name Mohammad | 07:04 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, I have no children | 07:04 |
| MohammadAG | or grandchildren | 07:04 |
| Termana | last name starts with a A ends with an H | 07:04 |
| * luke-jr wonders how one would get grandchildren without children | 07:04 | |
| Termana | a H* | 07:04 |
| Termana | an A* | 07:04 |
| nightwalk | MohammadAG: not talking about checkinstall. Checkinstall is a shoddy way to build packages | 07:04 |
| MohammadAG | wtf is checkinstall | 07:05 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: checkinstall is easy | 07:05 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, sorry, my name ends with H | 07:05 |
| luke-jr | checkinstall make install | 07:05 |
| luke-jr | instant package | 07:05 |
| nightwalk | Builds half-a**ed packages | 07:05 |
| MohammadAG | 3 minutes without it | 07:05 |
| MohammadAG | don't use it, sorry, not a lazy ass dev | 07:05 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, also, I ended up using Google Apps for my domain email. Gmail can sync using the exchange protocol (Google Sync). | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | MohammadAG: yes you are! | 07:06 |
| nightwalk | Not saying rpms are great or anything, but at least everything that has to be changed is in a single file | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: ebuild ftw!@ | 07:06 |
| nightwalk | ...and rpm lets me --force things without deleting scriptlets from the filesystem first | 07:06 |
| MohammadAG | dpkg has --force... | 07:06 |
| MohammadAG | rpm is retarded | 07:06 |
| Termana | luke-jr, let me guess - anyone who doesn't build from source is lazy? | 07:06 |
| Termana | :p | 07:06 |
| luke-jr | Termana: only if they neglect the pizza | 07:06 |
| nightwalk | dpkg has --force...*now*. in-place upgrading from one version of ubuntu to another still results in deadlocks that require scriptlets to be deleted before the process can continue, though | 07:07 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 07:07 |
| ieatlint | mmmm, pizza | 07:07 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: you're not supposed to do that. and Ubuntu sucks in general. | 07:07 |
| MohammadAG | upgrading works fine for me | 07:07 |
| luke-jr | Ubuntu != .deb | 07:07 |
| nightwalk | Kind of made me glad maemo is going extinct in favor of meego, and that meego adopted rpm as it's package manager :) | 07:07 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 07:07 |
| MohammadAG | Maemo 6 <3 | 07:08 |
| nightwalk | in-place upgrades are how it's supposed to be | 07:08 |
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| MohammadAG | RPM's are retarded | 07:08 |
| ieatlint | and i have to agree, .deb is an annoying fucking bitch to package | 07:08 |
| nightwalk | There's no technical reason for distro version numbers anymore | 07:08 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: LOL, you have no idea | 07:08 |
| toresbe | Is there going to be any further development of Maemo at all? | 07:08 |
| MohammadAG | toresbe, yes | 07:08 |
| ieatlint | but i don't have enough experience with binary packaging systems to state if it is better or worse than others | 07:08 |
| MohammadAG | and it'll use debs | 07:08 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: you've never heard of ABI, have you? | 07:08 |
| MohammadAG | that's why i love it | 07:08 |
| toresbe | oh, goodie. | 07:08 |
| chx | what, deb is a bitch to package?? it's a walk in the park compared to RPM! | 07:08 |
| toresbe | RPMs are abhorrent. | 07:09 |
| toresbe | I thought they shelved Maemo 6 for Meego? | 07:09 |
| chx | that sounds correct. | 07:09 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: oh...I have a way better idea than you might think. I have to manage a ton of customizations to an upstream distro that basically make it different enough to be its own distro, *and* I have to re-base on newer upstream releases from time to time | 07:09 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, also, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mohammad7410/Packaging | 07:09 |
| toresbe | Is there an ETA on Maemo 6? | 07:09 |
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| MohammadAG | yes | 07:09 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: thanks for verifying that you have no idea | 07:09 |
| ieatlint | debs take 30minutes and a lot of reference lookup and copy/paste in order to get something to package... once you've done that leg work, then it's 3min to push out a new revision if the deps and such are unchanged | 07:09 |
| MohammadAG | return N9ReleaseDate(); | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | N9ReleaseDate is undefined, so, yeah | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | ieatlint, nah | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | generate stuff manually | 07:10 |
| toresbe | won't the N9 ship with Meego? | 07:10 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: why? because I happen to manage a custom rpm-based distro? | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | automatically* | 07:10 |
| MohammadAG | toresbe, no, Harmattan | 07:11 |
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| luke-jr | nightwalk: because you think forking Ubuntu is qualification | 07:11 |
| pupnik | i'd buy one with angstrom | 07:11 |
| MohammadAG | toresbe, or MeeGo-Harmattan | 07:11 |
| nightwalk | ieatlint: 3 minutes *if* you know sed syntax, maybe :) | 07:11 |
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| MohammadAG | naming isn't important | 07:11 |
| MohammadAG | but it'll use debs | 07:11 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: uhh...no. Ubuntu isn't rpm-based. | 07:11 |
| ieatlint | MohammadAG: maybe for you, when you've been doing it a lot and are very familiar with it... the rest of us see a annoying learning curve with a wall of text and conflicting information | 07:12 |
| nightwalk | ubuntu uses .deb's, and after learning to make them, there's no way I'd want to manage a deb-based distro | 07:12 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: well, forking any distro for that matter | 07:12 |
| ieatlint | ever notice that there are at least half a dozen .deb packaging guides on the maemo wiki alone? | 07:12 |
| toresbe | Oh wait. Maemo 6 == Meego 1? I'm ...confused | 07:12 |
| MohammadAG | no | 07:12 |
| ieatlint | and try to follow a non-maemo guide, and you're even more fucked | 07:12 |
| MohammadAG | Maemo 6 == MeeGo fork 1 | 07:12 |
| nightwalk | ieatlint: oops...forgot, there are subdirs in the debian/ dir. find + sed syntax :) | 07:12 |
| MohammadAG | wtf nightwalk ? | 07:13 |
| MohammadAG | you don't need subdirs in debian/ | 07:13 |
| ieatlint | my only other experience with "packaging" software are ebuilds... and they're a fuck of a lot easier | 07:13 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: I didn't fork because I wanted to. I forked because it's what the client wanted, and I haven't been able to break them of their roll-your-own attitude yet | 07:14 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: you still don't have a clue | 07:14 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, I'll give you steps to build a kernel | 07:14 |
| MohammadAG | make menuconfig | 07:14 |
| nightwalk | However, knowing what I know now, if they told me they wanted me to switch it all to a deb-based distro, I'd find a way to be more persuasive | 07:15 |
| MohammadAG | make bzImage | 07:15 |
| nightwalk | MohammadAG: kernel has a builddeb script | 07:15 |
| MohammadAG | do that with maemo's kernel, and meego's kernel | 07:15 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, ok, build the meego kernel | 07:15 |
| ieatlint | heh, anyway, i don't know rpms, or other more obscure ones, so i can't compare | 07:15 |
| ieatlint | but you're kidding yourself to say that .deb is clean and simple :P | 07:15 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: funny how you make the same accusation without any reference material. I think you're just taking it a tad too personally. | 07:16 |
| MohammadAG | nope, find it a lot better than RPM | 07:16 |
| ieatlint | nightwalk: this is linux/oss ... we take everything personally | 07:16 |
| nightwalk | Personally, I like the pacman philosophy better than anything. The distro surrounding it (Arch) needs to mature a bit more before I can recommend it, though | 07:16 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: well I just run Gentoo on my N810 and N900 so there | 07:17 |
| nightwalk | luke-jr: hey...it's gotta be better than android :) | 07:17 |
| luke-jr | yeah, cuz android uses rpm | 07:18 |
| nightwalk | I'm so *not* impressed by android on this droid 2 right now. Trouble is, I need to run something else to figure out whether it's the hardware to blame, or the software :/ | 07:18 |
| Termana | Yeah, well bitches I'm going to run OpenBSD on an OQO 02. Suck on that | 07:19 |
| luke-jr | Termana: buy me one? | 07:19 |
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| luke-jr | please | 07:19 |
| ds3 | isn't the OQO's dead? | 07:20 |
| ieatlint | you're only fucking yourself over; go right ahead | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | probably | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | I just want to rant about it's non-free parts | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | lol | 07:20 |
| Termana | ds3, there's about 15 being sold on ebay at the moment | 07:20 |
| Termana | used | 07:20 |
| Termana | a few new | 07:20 |
| luke-jr | (you know i would) | 07:20 |
| nightwalk | Look...I don't care *what* you guys run, so long as you release the code, and it never translates to me ever having to build a .deb | 07:20 |
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| * luke-jr votes we force nightwalk to build debs for the rest of his life | 07:20 | |
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| nightwalk | O_O | 07:21 |
| ds3 | Termana: but they aren't being made anymore, right? | 07:21 |
| nightwalk | Couldn't you just shoot me instead? | 07:21 |
| luke-jr | nightwalk: no, that'd be a sin | 07:21 |
| Termana | ds3, nope. Which is why I want to get money quickly and get one, before no one is selling them second hand anymore :p | 07:21 |
| Termana | Maybe I'll run MINIX on one and send it to luke-jr | 07:21 |
| nightwalk | and making .deb's aren't? The devil hisself created it, after all :P | 07:22 |
| ds3 | Termana: I see... the reviews I remember reading it put it below a Z | 07:22 |
| ds3 | just use tgz's | 07:22 |
| ds3 | loose this silly packaging crap | 07:22 |
| ds3 | :D | 07:22 |
| ds3 | SLS 4 EVER! | 07:22 |
| nightwalk | Not really sure why more distros haven't done that | 07:22 |
| ieatlint | Termana: run freedos | 07:22 |
| ieatlint | it's reliable, and open | 07:23 |
| nightwalk | There's nothing that says the auto-dependency stuff has to live in the same file as the payload, after all | 07:23 |
| * luke-jr pretends ds3 doesn't exist. | 07:23 | |
| ds3 | Termana: what processor is in that OQO? | 07:23 |
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| nightwalk | Err....be embedded in the payload packaging, rather... | 07:23 |
| ds3 | SLS was a FINE distro :P | 07:23 |
| Termana | ds3, depends which one you get. Most of the ones being sold on ebay are 02s with VIA processors | 07:23 |
| Termana | (x86) | 07:23 |
| * nightwalk shudders at the thought of freedos on a phone | 07:24 | |
| ieatlint | go run freebsd... they're so cute because they're in more denial about how dead it is than most oss projects | 07:24 |
| Termana | If someone feels like making *BSD work on the N900, feel free and I'll buy an N900 again instead and some beers for the person who does it | 07:24 |
| nightwalk | ieatlint: you must be my twin or something :) | 07:24 |
| nightwalk | Though fbsd might yet survive in the form of PCBSD | 07:25 |
| ds3 | Termana: C7's? | 07:25 |
| ieatlint | nah, i just end up dealing with a lot of freebsd people | 07:25 |
| ds3 | Termana: in that case, wouldn't a WiBrain be better? | 07:25 |
| Termana | ds3, C7M | 07:25 |
| nightwalk | I'd rather see someone adapt a n900 to cdma...or for nokia to release a cdma n900 | 07:26 |
| Termana | ds3, I don't know, maybe. What does the WiBrain have over the OQO though? | 07:26 |
| Termana | Looks like it has a trackpad which is good. The OQO has a mouse knob | 07:26 |
| nightwalk | The n900 is an awesome phone, but there aren't any gsm or wcdma carriers in this area T_T | 07:26 |
| ds3 | Termana: a bit newer I think and overall smaller | 07:26 |
| ds3 | and the WiBrain has a version that natively runs linux | 07:26 |
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| ieatlint | i'm more concerned about the network support for the n9... | 07:29 |
| ieatlint | i'm sure it'll be gsm/umts, but fear which carriers it'll work with where i live | 07:30 |
| luke-jr | nothing 4G? | 07:30 |
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| ieatlint | uh, LTE rollout is just starting i think | 07:30 |
| budfive | nightwalk: where are you that you have no gsm? | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | USA | 07:31 |
| nightwalk | budfive: midwestern US. | 07:31 |
| luke-jr | has basically no GSM | 07:31 |
| budfive | nightwalk: heh? tmobile? att? | 07:31 |
| ieatlint | luke-jr: uh... hardly | 07:31 |
| ieatlint | the largest carrier in the USA is gsm/umts based even | 07:32 |
| luke-jr | ieatlint: Sprint is CDMA | 07:32 |
| nightwalk | budfive: tmobile has a presence, but coverage is dodgy at best | 07:32 |
| Termana | Sprint is not the largest carrier in USA | 07:32 |
| budfive | budfive: I'm in la and tmobile works great. ymmv i suppose | 07:32 |
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| nightwalk | There are basically two choices here: verizon, or sprint. Both are somewhat dodgy, but usable | 07:32 |
| luke-jr | Verizon is going standard w/ 4G LTE | 07:33 |
| nightwalk | This used to be an Alltel area, and under Alltel, I had almost perfect coverage | 07:33 |
| * nightwalk sighs | 07:33 | |
| nightwalk | I miss Alltel... | 07:33 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, i hear verizon just started their LTE rollout, which is the first 4g network | 07:33 |
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| nightwalk | I care less about 4G than I do about them trying to force me to pay way too much for an 'unlimited' plan that has a pathetically low cap | 07:34 |
| nightwalk | A 250G cap like comcast has is acceptable, 5G isn't by far | 07:35 |
| nightwalk | Just casually watching youtube vids on the subway would eat that up in nothing flat. | 07:35 |
| ieatlint | subway in the midwest? hah | 07:36 |
| nightwalk | I can dream... | 07:37 |
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| MohammadAG | jacekowski, ping | 07:37 |
| nightwalk | Actually, one of the neighboring states is supposed to be starting on high speed rails in 2012 | 07:37 |
| nightwalk | Not the right solution, but it should still help out the economy in this region | 07:37 |
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| luke-jr | ieatlint: Subways all over the midwest.. | 07:38 |
| nightwalk | MohammadAG: I read through the link you sent. You're joking, right? That makes building .deb's seem even *more* difficult than I know they are :/ | 07:38 |
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| nightwalk | luke-jr, ieatlint: the US isn't nearly as progressive as some places. Sad fact is, most people in the US have their heads shoved too firmly up their own a**es to care whether or not other people have a decent way to work, whether they're polluting the environment, or whether they're wasting precious resources on less-than-optimal means of transit | 07:42 |
| ieatlint | uh, all 3 of us live in the US... not sure we need that lecture | 07:43 |
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| nightwalk | Evidently you do, or you wouldn't be making fun of subways | 07:43 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, sorry if it scared you off, it's the way I package stuff :P | 07:44 |
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| ieatlint | eh, no matter where you are in the world, if you have a mass transit system, you inevitably complain about it | 07:44 |
| pupnik | :) | 07:44 |
| nightwalk | MohammadAG: I keep waiting for someone to write a nice little wrapper so I don't have to even touch the debian/ directory ;) | 07:45 |
| pupnik | yeah let's see... we are using personal computers and the internet - invented in the US | 07:45 |
| ieatlint | not entirely | 07:45 |
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| nightwalk | Invented by the military...for military purposes. Re-purposed by colleges, then re-re-purposed by big business to peddle their wares | 07:46 |
| MohammadAG | nightwalk, that might be easy to do... | 07:46 |
| ieatlint | pretty sure it was al gore | 07:46 |
| MohammadAG | In fact, I'll consider it :P | 07:46 |
| MohammadAG | well | 07:47 |
| nightwalk | MohammadAG: You'd certainly lessen the hate level in those of us who are anti-deb ;) | 07:47 |
| MohammadAG | all of it will be easy | 07:47 |
| MohammadAG | cept for debian/rules | 07:47 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, it's usually always the same | 07:47 |
| nightwalk | Come to think of it, jbj was bouncing around the idea of merging .deb functionality into rpm a while back. Was kinda waiting to see if that materialized, too | 07:48 |
| nightwalk | Probably won't for a while now though. Sources say he landed himself a gig that's keeping him from his side activities | 07:49 |
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| nightwalk | MohammadAG: anything is better than nothing. | 07:50 |
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| nightwalk | I'm a little surprised no one has extended alien to handling source packages, actually | 07:50 |
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| nightwalk | Converting between packages' metadata formats isn't exactly trivial, but it's not a hard problem either. | 07:52 |
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| Termana | Hmm, submission of my first 1000 word essay for Uni. I'm learning how to expand sentence with bullshit that unnecessarily elaborates on points and uses expanded vocabulary. :p | 08:02 |
| Termana | sentences* | 08:02 |
| chx | Termana: just wait until you get to writing an article for a magazine or even worse a book. | 08:04 |
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| Termana | This study period I've taken Introduction to Information Technology and Learning and Communication Behaviour. Because I decided to take the uni placement over completing high school I was forced to take the second one (which is the one I'm doing the essay for), otherwise I'd be doing Intro to IT and Intro to Programming :p That would be much more fun :p | 08:07 |
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| Termana | You also get penalised for using to much wikipedia references :p | 08:10 |
| lolloo | is the a script for wh-701 headset to make the play-pause buttons to work on N900? | 08:11 |
| lolloo | wh-701 headset is awesome, it has a good Bass. | 08:15 |
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| lolloo | I know there is a kind of code or script to make it work with N900. | 08:15 |
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| trumee | Here we go again. Another dead software since the developer deserted Maemo. Witter. RIP | 08:35 |
| trumee | Both Facebrick and Witter are dead. Sucks. | 08:36 |
| loft306 | they quitL or just go to the new stuff? | 08:39 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, DL the source, edit it yourself, and republish it. | 08:42 |
| trumee | loft306, both have quit it seems. | 08:42 |
| RobbieThe1st | That's what OSS is all about | 08:42 |
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| timeless_mbp | anyone here speak swedish? | 09:24 |
| sandst1 | ja | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | > Visa en dialog för att ställa in serveralternativ när man läser in ett sparat spel. | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | are all of those tokens words in Swedish? | 09:25 |
| timeless_mbp | i know that in german it's ok to merge words to make longer words | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | and i understand that swedish is a germanic language | 09:26 |
| sandst1 | it's the same in swedish | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | ok | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | so "serveralternativ" is legal | 09:26 |
| sandst1 | yeap | 09:26 |
| timeless_mbp | thanks | 09:26 |
| sandst1 | np | 09:26 |
| * timeless_mbp wonders if anyone will ask where this question came from | 09:27 | |
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| sandst1 | timeless_mbp: UI spec in Swedish? : P | 09:28 |
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| timeless_mbp | sandst1: no :) | 09:28 |
| timeless_mbp | the question doesn't particularly relate to the string | 09:28 |
| sandst1 | ookay :) | 09:29 |
| timeless_mbp | http://www.google.com/codesearch?hl=en&start=10&sa=N&q=serveral+-serveralert+-serveralias+-serverallowsresponsecachingforrequest+-serveralreadyactive+-serveralreadyregistered+-openssh+-serverallowsspawn | 09:30 |
| timeless_mbp | it came from there :) | 09:30 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Awesome, and somewhat relevant: http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/12/what-happens-when-you-steal-a-hackers-computer/ | 09:33 |
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| timeless_mbp | someone forgot to swap the drive for spare parts ;-) | 09:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea | 09:35 |
| RobbieThe1st | You -always- wipe things that you get used. It's just common sense. | 09:35 |
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| * timeless_mbp gets totally confused | 09:37 | |
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| timeless_mbp | oh grr | 09:39 |
| * timeless_mbp cries | 09:39 | |
| timeless_mbp | this isn't the right directory | 09:39 |
| kerio | nope, this is irc | 09:39 |
| kerio | we don't even have directories, we have channels | 09:40 |
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| timeless_mbp | thanks | 09:40 |
| timeless_mbp | http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/search?string=serveral&filter=\bserveral\b | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | is the meego equivalent of my google codesearch | 09:41 |
| timeless_mbp | oh joy | 09:41 |
| * timeless_mbp likes the tracker po | 09:41 | |
| * timeless_mbp presumes that means someone eventually fixed en | 09:42 | |
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| RST38h | Well. Moorning. | 09:47 |
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| * timeless_mbp likes http://mxr.meego.com/repo.meego.com/source/rpmlint-0.92/TagsCheck.py?raw=1#352 | 09:49 | |
| timeless_mbp | it complains when people write "serveral" in their descriptions :) | 09:49 |
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| RST38h | Anyone knows WTF is going on with the repos? apt-get is replacing a bunch of the same packages for the second day in a row | 10:03 |
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| kerio | huh... updates? | 10:07 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 10:09 |
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| yacc | RST38h, what repos do you have enabled? | 10:30 |
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| RST38h | yacc: the usual | 10:30 |
| hrw | morning, HNY'11 | 10:32 |
| RST38h | hny to you too hrw | 10:32 |
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| Venemo_N900 | morning | 11:15 |
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| crashanddie | morning | 11:24 |
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| daxt | guyz , what is the default font in maemo , and how do i change it ? | 11:26 |
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| Venemo_N900 | daxt: default is Nokia Sans | 11:27 |
| daxt | i want to change it to on my own unicode font | 11:27 |
| daxt | is it possible ? | 11:27 |
| Venemo_N900 | daxt: about how to change, use the power search feature on tmo | 11:27 |
| daxt | tmo ? | 11:27 |
| Termana | crashanddie, did you see that the injection drivers have been opened now? | 11:28 |
| crashanddie | I did not, good news though | 11:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | daxt: http://talk.maemo.org | 11:28 |
| daxt | oh | 11:29 |
| daxt | thanks | 11:29 |
| Termana | crashanddie, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=67554 | 11:29 |
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| crashanddie | woah, trollfest | 11:34 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, need some quick help with C++ | 11:35 |
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| crashanddie | shoot in other channel | 11:35 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: what's the question? | 11:37 |
| pupnik | boy i gotta be careful what channel i talk to Venemo_N900 in now | 11:39 |
| pupnik | they look so similar ::) | 11:39 |
| Venemo_N900 | hehe pupnik | 11:39 |
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| crashanddie | Termana, well, technically, he can't demand payment for the source | 11:39 |
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| crashanddie | Termana, he can ask for a fee to cover his costs to distribute the source, but requiring donations isn't allowed. | 11:41 |
| frals | man shouldve required donations for ppl to dl fmms | 11:42 |
| frals | i wouldve been a rich man by now for sure | 11:42 |
| flux | crashanddie, hm, but he doesn't need to give the source to anyone other than the ones that have received an offer for it, that is, anyone who has the resulting binary as well.. | 11:43 |
| flux | crashanddie, of course, nothing prevents a person from redistributing the source once he gets it | 11:43 |
| crashanddie | erhm, no | 11:44 |
| crashanddie | flux, the binary has already been widely distributed, whether directly through him or not (see neopwn project) | 11:44 |
| MohammadAG | who has an unmodified US device? | 11:44 |
| MohammadAG | by unmodified I mean no custom FMTX stuff | 11:44 |
| flux | crashanddie, oh, I wasn't aware of that | 11:44 |
| Jaffa | frals: See my donation framework for maemo.org... | 11:44 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, and you'd need to support us :P | 11:45 |
| flux | crashanddie, in any case, it should be the distributors of neopwn that should be distributing the source | 11:45 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Don't suppose you fancy getting stuck into some MWKN issue editing? It's a bumper issue and just needs a few items fleshed out | 11:45 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, now? | 11:45 |
| frals | Jaffa: where can I see it? /me has been off maemo.org for the last 2 months | 11:45 |
| frals | MohammadAG: nevah! ;) | 11:45 |
| frals | MohammadAG: i already do enough supporting ;( | 11:45 |
| MohammadAG | frals, well, you need to accept more bug reports if fMMS was paid | 11:46 |
| crashanddie | flux, yeah, and I've upheld that for quite some time :) | 11:46 |
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| MohammadAG | I received a pic of my gf, why wasn't it naked? fMMS sucks | 11:46 |
| frals | MohammadAG: not paid, "donationware" ;) | 11:46 |
| Termana | crashanddie, for a start, he didn't distribute it, Neopwn did so he does NOT have to give the source to whoever received a binary from Neopwn. Secondly, what he is doing is copyright infringement anyhow - see the discussion last night for an in-depth view | 11:46 |
| Venemo_N900 | lol MohammadAG | 11:46 |
| crashanddie | who's "he" doing copyright infringement? David? | 11:46 |
| MohammadAG | frals, should I file a bug for it? | 11:47 |
| frals | MohammadAG: no :( | 11:47 |
| MohammadAG | trouts suck!1! | 11:47 |
| frals | got some many bugs i need to triage already ;( | 11:47 |
| Termana | crashanddie, the current person distributing it when someone donates to him (the source and binary) | 11:47 |
| crashanddie | oh | 11:47 |
| Termana | ixp or whatever | 11:47 |
| crashanddie | lxp | 11:47 |
| MohammadAG | lxp | 11:47 |
| Termana | right lxp | 11:47 |
| * MohammadAG points frals to the weed of bugtracking | 11:47 | |
| MohammadAG | WONTFIX | 11:47 |
| crashanddie | Termana, it's a bloody nightmare, that's what it is | 11:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: you have a gf? | 11:48 |
| frals | MohammadAG: INVALID is better | 11:48 |
| crashanddie | Termana, and a rightful shame | 11:48 |
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| MohammadAG | frals, WONTFIX!!1 | 11:48 |
| crashanddie | Venemo_N900, yeah, she has five fingers and access to lube. | 11:48 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo_N900, not in the sense of a gf in other countries, but yeah | 11:48 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, piss off :P | 11:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | lol crashanddie | 11:48 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, you need help now? | 11:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: well if not in that sense, then I can understand why her picture was not naked. | 11:49 |
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| Termana | crashanddie, I want to see the lawsuits from this. lxp sues neopwn for breach of contract, neopwn sues lxp for copyright infringement, kernel developers sue neopwn for copyright infringement | 11:49 |
| Termana | DING DING! | 11:49 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG: this is the situation when devs say, "fix your own bug man!" | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | Termana, they're all in different countries as far as I can tell | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG | hehehe | 11:50 |
| Termana | Even more interesting! :p | 11:50 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: crashanddie If you've time | 11:50 |
| crashanddie | Termana, kernel devs are in sweden/northern europe, david is in germany (telling from his name), and neopwn is in the US | 11:50 |
| MohammadAG | Jaffa, before that, one question, is ln -s in the postinst necessary? it makes installation fail | 11:51 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, send link, I'll see what I can do | 11:51 |
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| Jaffa | frals: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-January/023980.html | 11:51 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: It is necessary. I'm fixing it now. | 11:51 |
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| xDaReaperx | hey i'm using PR 1.3 | 11:53 |
| xDaReaperx | does the Matan's Hildon-desktop fix really work to reduce CPU usage for PR 1.3 ? | 11:53 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, :) | 11:53 |
| MohammadAG | I'm using the soon to be launched PR1.3.3.7 | 11:53 |
| xDaReaperx | i was trying to explain ... | 11:54 |
| xDaReaperx | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/matan/ << this one | 11:54 |
| Venemo_N900 | xDaReaperx: Matan's patches have nothing to do with cpu use | 11:54 |
| xDaReaperx | MohammadAG please help | 11:54 |
| frals | Jaffa: :) was it ever implemented or acted on? | 11:54 |
| xDaReaperx | Okay what does it do ? | 11:54 |
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| MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/matan/hildon-desktop_matan_2.2.140-1+0m5_armel.deb | 11:55 |
| MohammadAG | is what you need I suppose | 11:55 |
| Venemo_N900 | xDaReaperx: read the article titled "modified hildon desktop" in the wiki | 11:55 |
| xDaReaperx | okay | 11:55 |
| MohammadAG | they're not matan's patches | 11:55 |
| MohammadAG | they're madam's | 11:55 |
| Jaffa | frals: It's on the maemo.org roadmap and was accepted by the maemo.org team as part of the brainstorm. | 11:55 |
| MohammadAG | and that's a modified modified hildon-desktop | 11:55 |
| MohammadAG | modified x2 intended | 11:55 |
| xDaReaperx | uhm okay | 11:55 |
| Termana | <MohammadAG> I'm using the soon to be launched PR1.3.3.7 <-- I see what you did there | 11:56 |
| Termana | :p | 11:56 |
| MohammadAG | Termana, that's my SSU number :P | 11:56 |
| xDaReaperx | l33t ? | 11:57 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: http://gitorious.org/community-ssu/community-ssu-enabler/merge_requests/2 | 11:57 |
| xDaReaperx | what's SSU ? | 11:58 |
| xDaReaperx | okay if i do this to disable auto updates : gconftool -s --type int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 1440000 | 11:59 |
| MohammadAG | ~ssu | 12:00 |
| infobot | ssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU | 12:00 |
| xDaReaperx | how do i enable it ? | 12:00 |
| MohammadAG | that doesn't disable it | 12:00 |
| xDaReaperx | how do i disable ? | 12:00 |
| MohammadAG | just sets refresh rate to some ridiculously huge number | 12:00 |
| Termana | First you must give your first born to MohammadAG | 12:00 |
| MohammadAG | o_O | 12:00 |
| xDaReaperx | is there a way to disable it ? | 12:01 |
| MohammadAG | no | 12:01 |
| Venemo_N900 | no | 12:01 |
| xDaReaperx | cause it does freez my phone | 12:01 |
| Venemo_N900 | xDaReaperx: you can disable it with a hammer | 12:01 |
| xDaReaperx | ? | 12:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | after you smash the N900, I guarantee that it'll never try to update again | 12:02 |
| Termana | You can also try taking it out of the freezer | 12:02 |
| Termana | So it's not frozen | 12:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | yes Termana | 12:02 |
| xDaReaperx | i don't appreciate trolls | 12:02 |
| Jaffa | xDaReaperx: Define "freeze" | 12:03 |
| Jaffa | xDaReaperx: Have you reflashed? | 12:03 |
| Termana | Venemo_N900, aww, see that - try and have a little fun and suddenly we're trolls | 12:03 |
| xDaReaperx | No i did not reflash ... , freeze meaning it hangs the phone.. kind of high CPU usage | 12:03 |
| Termana | Looks like some people can't take a joke | 12:03 |
| xDaReaperx | only when i connect to the internet | 12:03 |
| Jaffa | MohammadAG: Sorry for the fsck-up. Will try harder in future ;-) | 12:04 |
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| MohammadAG | hehe, no worries | 12:04 |
| MohammadAG | I'm trying to figure something out | 12:05 |
| MohammadAG | since I can't remember it too well | 12:05 |
| MohammadAG | on US devices, is the FMTX missing all even numbers? | 12:05 |
| MohammadAG | i.e *.0/2/4/6/8? | 12:05 |
| xDaReaperx | @Termana : Cliche .... | 12:05 |
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| chem|st | 'lo | 12:10 |
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| crashanddie | when was the launch of the N900? | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | december 2009? | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | Or 2010? | 12:17 |
| crashanddie | err, 2008 | 12:17 |
| ieatlint | 2009 | 12:18 |
| ieatlint | and november i think | 12:18 |
| crashanddie | so just over a year ago | 12:18 |
| MohammadAG | November 2009 | 12:18 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Launch was September 2009 at Nokia World | 12:18 |
| crashanddie | aye | 12:18 |
| MohammadAG | that was announcement no? | 12:18 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: General availability was about November | 12:18 |
| ieatlint | well, retail availability, nov :P | 12:18 |
| crashanddie | just trying to remember how many years ago the summit was | 12:18 |
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| * MohammadAG got his shipped from amazon after two weeks of delays | 12:19 | |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Berlin (first): September 2008. Amsterdam (second): October 2009. Dublin (MeeGo): October 2010. | 12:19 |
| ieatlint | ask a simple question, get 10 pedantic and slightly conflicting responses that are somewhat correct... yay geeks | 12:19 |
| Jaffa | s/October 2010/November 2010/ | 12:19 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: crashanddie: Berlin (first): September 2008. Amsterdam (second): October 2009. Dublin (MeeGo): November 2010. | 12:19 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Ambiguous question ;-) | 12:19 |
| MohammadAG | San Fransisco: May 2011 | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, can you proofread the stuff I've added? | 12:20 |
| ieatlint | woo... i'll be able to afford to go to that one | 12:20 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, I've done it real quick, while I'm on a conf call | 12:20 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Much appreciated. Will give it a scan through now. | 12:24 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Just sorting the children first. | 12:24 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, still on holiday? You lazy sod :P | 12:25 |
| crashanddie | oh right, Monday -- cuz Saturday was a day off | 12:25 |
| crashanddie | Damn I love that rule in the UK | 12:25 |
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| tybollt_ | crashie "saturday was a day off"? | 12:26 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Aye :-) | 12:28 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Although I am a lazy sod. Mrs Jaffa is upstairs painting the eldest's new bedroom | 12:29 |
| Jaffa | crashanddie: Jaffalets are in front of cbeebies | 12:29 |
| lcuk | wouldn't they technically be tangerines? | 12:29 |
| Jaffa | :) | 12:29 |
| lcuk | Jaffa, are you lazy enough to be in bed typing though?! | 12:30 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: No, I'm dressed & typing :-) | 12:30 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Lazy enough to get crashanddie to finish MWKN for me, tho' | 12:30 |
| lcuk | heh | 12:30 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: Perfect. Thanks. | 12:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | Jaffa: lol at "Mrs Jaffa" | 12:36 |
| RST38h | http://www.jwz.org/doc/censorzilla.html | 12:36 |
| RST38h | And especially: ns/cmd/macfe/central/medithyper.cp PissOnThisDocument(fHContext); | 12:36 |
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| crashanddie | tybollt_, in the UK, when a bank or public holiday falls on the weekend, the next Monday is usually a day off | 12:41 |
| crashanddie | Jaffa, glad I could help | 12:43 |
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| Jaffa | crashanddie: The only bank holidays that can do that are Christmas Day, Boxing Day & New Year's Day. All the others are on fixed days of the week (but not fixed dates) | 12:44 |
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| Jaffa | tybollt_: So Monday/Tuesday last week, and today are all national holidays. | 12:45 |
| ieatlint | armistice day? | 12:45 |
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| Jaffa | ieatlint: Not a national holiday. | 12:46 |
| ieatlint | huh... thought it was in every allied nation | 12:47 |
| Jaffa | ieatlint: There're services of commemaration and a two minute silence; but not a day off work. | 12:54 |
| * Jaffa ponders giving Android a go. | 12:55 | |
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| NIN101 | Is it possible to have multiple kernels installed and to choose them when I boot up(like in GRUB)? | 14:16 |
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| * pupnik plays Beach Boys - Wouldn't it be Nice | 14:19 | |
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| RobbieThe1st | NIN101: That's what the two bootloader systems do - Multiboot writes a new kernel to the kernel partition, and the other one(I forget the name, support was added in PR1.3) just chainloads a kernel | 14:24 |
| thp | ShadowJK: you said that moving .config/gpodder to the microsd or emmc improves download performance? | 14:25 |
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| ShadowJK | thp, well it stopped alot of the "stutter" in UI | 14:25 |
| ShadowJK | of other apps | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | RobbieThe1st: uBot was the name | 14:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | NIN101: Uboot is the other one, and it can be made to have a menu | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | uBoot | 14:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, thanks | 14:26 |
| NIN101 | thx guy | 14:26 |
| NIN101 | s | 14:26 |
| thp | ShadowJK: that's a good thing. i consider moving the db to MyDocs for a future version for other reasons :) | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | multiboot is *BAD* (TM) | 14:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | ^^ It was used because it was the only thing we had. uBoot came along, and that's the new, much better solution | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | thp, there's still a large noticeable gpodder UI pause whenever a download completes, but I haven't checked if gpodder is also blocking/"pausing" downloads during that time | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't say multi is stupid or poorly written. It's e real clever hack, just nasty to the bones | 14:27 |
| ShadowJK | thp, well at least ext3 can be somewhat vaguely trusted to not make your frequently in-place updated single file data store into $random or nulls whenever something goes wrong :-) | 14:29 |
| ShadowJK | I wouldn't put that much faith in vfat | 14:29 |
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| RST38h | Nice clusterfuck example: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/02/AR2011010202491.html?tid=iGoogle | 14:30 |
| MohammadAG | windows needs ext3 support | 14:33 |
| derf | RST38h: Eh, it's only $5bln. | 14:33 |
| NIN101 | haha, installed uboot from the repo and now it frezes at "Starting kernel...", so I have to reflash :-) | 14:34 |
| ShadowJK | We need to stop use ext3 on flash also :-) | 14:34 |
| MohammadAG | and use what exactly :) | 14:34 |
| MohammadAG | ext2? | 14:34 |
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| kerio | ubifs | 14:35 |
| ShadowJK | Well that's the problem :) | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | ext4? | 14:35 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah, onenand without FTL and running ubifs on it would be nice | 14:35 |
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| MohammadAG | what about brtfs? | 14:36 |
| kerio | if that idiot didn't get caught we could use reiserfs now | 14:36 |
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| kerio | *got | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | MeeGo is doing btrfs which is a step up in performance, except when it decides to run slower than a Commodore64 tapedrive | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | iirc reiserfs had ext2/ext3 class performance on flash last time I checked | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | it = ? | 14:37 |
| ShadowJK | btrfs | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | i thought btrfs was better than ubifs | 14:37 |
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| ShadowJK | They aren't comparable | 14:37 |
| pexi | deleted angry birds and now the auto-update suggests angry birds :) | 14:38 |
| ShadowJK | btrfs works on block devices, ubifs works on unsorted block devices which work on raw flash | 14:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pexi: maybe uninstalling would have been method of choice, rather than deleting :-P | 14:39 |
| MohammadAG | what about ext4 vs btrfs | 14:39 |
| pexi | doc, well.. i did that if i recall it right :p | 14:39 |
| ShadowJK | On big machines (well, things with real harddrives or real SSDs, and more than bare minimum ram) btrfs runs faster and also has other nice features | 14:40 |
| ShadowJK | in my benchmarks on mmc type devices, ext4 came out faster than btrfs... | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-01-03 13:35:39] <DocScrutinizer> ext4? | 14:41 |
| RST38h | derf: Yes, but given the relative desolation of the whole place, they are probably running out of ways to waste it =) | 14:41 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: what about mmc life span though? | 14:41 |
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| pexi | http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/12/awesome-iphone-controlled-beer-robot-with-air-cannon-web-cam/ | 14:41 |
| derf | RST38h: There's always graft and larceny! | 14:42 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, so I've been writing a constant 2 megabytes/second to a 16 gigabyte sandisk for about a year now. Still going. | 14:42 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: same amount of available space though? | 14:43 |
| kerio | that's a lie! | 14:43 |
| ShadowJK | The card is not aware of available space | 14:43 |
| RST38h | derf: Kinda difficult to pilfer $5b still | 14:43 |
| kerio | that's 61593gb, not 16 | 14:43 |
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| RST38h | derf: But I am sure they can handle it, bring it on! =) | 14:44 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah so 61 terabytes written to it | 14:44 |
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| RST38h | ShadowJK: I have been under impression that, as flash blocks go bad, they should be marked unsuable and the available space should decrease, no? | 14:45 |
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| derf | RST38h: The banks here pilfered some $20tln. So they've got something to aspire to. | 14:45 |
| ShadowJK | it's a nilfs2 filesystem and an older kernel. Its garbage collection seems to run at a constant 2M/s or so :-) | 14:45 |
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| RST38h | derf: Banks, of course, had much more fertile environment for this kinda thing | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | amazingly rumour has it they are getting terribly more worse instead of better (regarding write rounds ) | 14:45 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Yes and no | 14:46 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, no they have spare blocks and when it runs out it runs slower and slower until it fails, at which point they usually do one of) a) report I/O error for the block in question b) hang indefinitely c) report i/o error for everything d) silently corrupt data | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Doc: Generally, the smaller flash cells become and the more charge levels are used per cell, the less reliable they will be | 14:46 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Sounds like scary crap | 14:46 |
| SpeedEvil | It is. | 14:47 |
| ShadowJK | Some USB drives actually have vendor tools that could be used to reconfigure the drive as a 4G, but mostly the microcontroller is so crap it's not able to deal with that either | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you bet it is | 14:47 |
| RST38h | Doc: BUT, our Korean overlords are repeatedly assuring us that "improvements in technologies allow them to keep things reliable | 14:47 |
| ShadowJK | I think the "report shrinking space" was implemented in a single PCI-e connected enterprise class SLC device :-) | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | there are also "vendor" tools to configure and sell 4GB as 16GB :-P | 14:48 |
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| tybollt_ | sjk: o_O so 4G doesn't mandate new antenae etc? Just new microcontroller? | 14:48 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Hey, the OS itself should be able to maintain the list of bad blocks, done it for years with HDs | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | Intel's SSD if predicting cells will die before the warranty expires switches to a slower but "better" wear-leveling algorithm, sacrificing performance for longevity :-) | 14:48 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: So, I do not see how flash is different here | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.mail-archive.com/devel@lists.laptop.org/msg24533.html | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | See that | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | RST38h, sure if you had some god damn access to the flash | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | but it's behind the FTL | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | on flash | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | which randomizes LBA -> physical every time you touch the flash | 14:49 |
| RST38h | ShadowJK: Ah, true | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | And the FTL in SDs may suck badly | 14:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | The above is tests from the olpc peeps on SD endurance | 14:50 |
| ShadowJK | Like, my card that does d)silently corrupt data has bad blocks showing up with the badblocks utility, but every pass of badblocks has the bad blocks in a new randomized position :-) | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's coooool | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | XD | 14:51 |
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| ShadowJK | It's actually still almost half-usable as mp3 storage. There's just occasional blips and garbles :-) | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just those 16G cards where you surprisingly find block containing data @512MB is same content as block containing data @0 | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e the card reports 16GB but actually mirrors 512MB over the whole 16GB | 14:53 |
| RST38h | You are all scaring me. | 14:53 |
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| RST38h | Evil, evil people. | 14:53 |
| timeless_mbp | ShadowJK: comparing ext4 w/ btrfs for speed is mostly pointless | 14:53 |
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| ShadowJK | http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/pjd/papers/fast10-flash.pdf "Write Endurance in Flash Drives: Measurements and Analysis" | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | btrfs is designed for reliability | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and other fancy things | 14:54 |
| Venemo | wl-kmod-5.60.48.36-1.meego.src.rpmhttp://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=910436&postcount=54 -> what do you think? is he an idiot or he is an idiot? | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | and it probably hasn't had time to be optimized | 14:54 |
| Venemo | sorry, bad copypaste | 14:54 |
| timeless_mbp | Venemo: i think you should have included a space in "rpmhttp" :) | 14:54 |
| Venemo | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=910436&postcount=54 | 14:54 |
| ShadowJK | As far as CPU use goes, it's probably highly unoptimized | 14:54 |
| Venemo | timeless_mbp: ctrl+c sometimes does interesting things here :P | 14:55 |
| ShadowJK | but that's not the main issue | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Venemo: geneven pretty much went made lately | 14:55 |
| RST38h | s/made/mad | 14:55 |
| timeless_mbp | Venemo: i think he meant 'underclocked' | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: **SIGH** | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Please, excuse his regrettable condition and do not troll him too much. | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | What I find annoying is that SD card flash tranlation layer is implementd in MC?Us, that could probably be reprogrammed to do fun stuff. | 14:56 |
| * Venemo still thinks we should ban overclocking related topics in TMO | 14:56 | |
| timeless_mbp | SpeedEvil: like deadlock? :) | 14:56 |
| ShadowJK | nilfs2 which otherwise is the slowest in every benchmark is by pure accident very fast on mmc type storage :-) | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | Venemo: but that's restricting freedom to be an idiot | 14:56 |
| timeless_mbp | that's a violation of civil rights! | 14:56 |
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| Venemo | the forum is full of people who overclock to 1 GHz and after a few months they come back and say hey, my device freezes all the time... | 14:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | heh | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | timeless: Like implementing a native serial dataloger, or playing out raw audio with no other hardware, or getting out of the way, and just acting like a controller onto the raw NAND. | 14:57 |
| Venemo | and they say, NOOOO, it is not because I overclocked, because overclocking makes it smoother! he! | 14:57 |
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| timeless_mbp | i think we should be able to add tags to other posters | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | so if 20 maemo people want to tag someone as "overclocker" | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: no that's mere protection of my nerves. Nobody is allowed to injure my mood and tranquility | 14:57 |
| timeless_mbp | that tag sticks | 14:57 |
| crashanddie | fuck fuck fuck, quadruple fuck | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | then we could query for people with <overclocker> and <broken> and show correlation :) | 14:58 |
| Arkenoi | Venemo, prooflink? | 14:58 |
| Venemo | Arkenoi: ? | 14:58 |
| Arkenoi | never seen complaints like that | 14:58 |
| crashanddie | Stupid french government passed a new law that is going to need me to spend 7 hours in driving schools for my motorbike | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | timeless_mbp: I second that | 14:58 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: cool, can you poke someone to make it so? | 14:58 |
| Arkenoi | overclocking for year or so and happy with it :-) | 14:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ME? | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | Arkenoi: there are probably 50 different overclocking kernels | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | DocScrutinizer: i firmly believe the forums don't exist | 14:59 |
| timeless_mbp | please don't burst my bubble | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's probably 50.000 different useage patterns with OC | 14:59 |
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| Arkenoi | found lowest stable voltage for 950MHz, it is still lower than stock 600 | 14:59 |
| ShadowJK | I think the btrfs people are optimizing for either harddrives where you spend a shitload of effort in placing things optimally at write time (beacuse stuff is written less than they're read, and it costs time to seek around, so spend extra effort placing it "just right" on the disk), or for big fat juicy fast SSDs like OCZ Vertex or Intel M-25 that run their own filesystems internally anyway... mmc behaves exactly the opposite of a harddrive, you want to | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | spend 0 effort on elaborate on-disk placement. Fragment the hell out of it when writing, because seeks during reads are mostly free but very expensive during writes | 15:00 |
| Arkenoi | so i doubt it will fry the device ever | 15:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: that's like "I don't believe I'm going to die ever. I made it for xx years now without" | 15:01 |
| * RST38h checked out Arkanoid's overclocked N900, it wasn't any smoother,expectedly | 15:01 | |
| ShadowJK | That pdf that stskeeps originally linked and I pasted link to again a bit further up has more details on scheduling for mmc :-) | 15:01 |
| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, if it lasts one more year, that's quite enough | 15:01 |
| Venemo | I agree with DocScrutinizer51 | 15:01 |
| Venemo | I agree with DocScrutinizer | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: think of OC is doing to OMAP what smoking is going to do to you and your live span expected | 15:01 |
| Venemo | (tab fail) | 15:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: not really | 15:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | all are same | 15:02 |
| Venemo | all are you, I know | 15:02 |
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| Arkenoi | DocScrutinizer, ok, i think it does worth it. most of the time you won't even notice oc advantages, but there are some cases that are worth it. like heavy web page rendering and flash | 15:03 |
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| Arkenoi | some video player issues are gone with OC as well | 15:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: I completely agree OC *could* be a reasonable thing if for example you'd limit it to maybe 1min/h | 15:04 |
| Venemo | how come that I've never had such issues? | 15:04 |
| tybollt_ | overclocking a mobile phone? *headexplode* | 15:04 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: 30% swappiness fixes the video player as well | 15:04 |
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| Arkenoi | RST38h, actually swappiness tweak and fixed pulseaudio contribute more to general user experience | 15:05 |
| Arkenoi | yep | 15:05 |
| * ShadowJK hasn't had any issues with video player? | 15:05 | |
| RST38h | Fixed pulseaudio? | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Arkenoi: most useage patterns may do this limitation implicitly. Those who don't may see severe wear after months or years | 15:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | ShadowJK: 'fragment the hell out of it when writing' also implies that as reads are very fast, arbitrarily, you can spend a lot of effort per block write (128k or whatever) grabbing fragmented blocks in areas that you plan to 'erase'. | 15:06 |
| * RST38h loudly wonders what kind of fun people find in arguing about overclocking | 15:06 | |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, yep, there is a contributed pulseaudio package that reduces cpu use significantly | 15:06 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, yeah | 15:06 |
| RST38h | You have bought your N900. You have a right todo whatever you want with it. If you fry it, it is your personalproblem, period. | 15:06 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: link? =) | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | And if it goes wrong, you can sell it on ebay | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Yes. Or use it as a doorstop. | 15:07 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, it is in my n900 faq on livejournal | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: or my problem when you sell it to me or come here whining | 15:07 |
| RST38h | So, I am not getting all this pseudo-religious "overclocking is evil evil evil" talk | 15:07 |
| ShadowJK | SpeedEvil, well, sequential write performance will drop by a factor of 5 perhaps.. It's a tradeoff really, do you want "OS drive" performance at 50 kilobytes per second with sequential write of 10M, or 1-2 Megabytes per second with sequential write of 2-3M per second? | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Saying it ONCE is enough. And whoever isn'tlistening is on his own anyway | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Doc: 1) Don't buy unknown crap 2) When people come whining for whatever reason, tell them to kiss His Tentacledness ass. | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: aye sir | 15:08 |
| Venemo | Arkenoi: link to pulseaudio pls? | 15:12 |
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| ShadowJK | That olpc thread is interesting read | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | regarding NAND writes and avoiding useless block erase events: Is any of the drivers actually checking if the new data is just programming bits but doesn't need erasing bits? or does this just work on virgin sector tracking but not on bit level (for now, in current implementations)? | 15:17 |
| ShadowJK | one of them chose nilfs2 for his own setup to get away from the dreadful write latencies of other filesystems, exactly the reasons I use it on my sheevaplug squid spool server :-) | 15:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui for example CAL is using "sectors" of fixed size for "key=0xdeadbeef" values, and always using the most recently written of multiple "sectors" with same key= label. Nevertheless if I'm going to change key=<0xFFFFF> to key=<0xFFFE> then there's no need to use a new sector, you can program-to-0 the one bit in existing sector, without erasing/rewriting whole block | 15:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 0xFFFE -> 0xFFFD won't work though, without a erase/rewrite or using a new "sector" | 15:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | test for <new> OR <old> == <new>, if true just rewrite the original data | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | that scheme applies only for SLC with erase-to-1 | 15:27 |
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| ShadowJK | They don't have the ram to do a comparison of an entire eraseblock :-) | 15:37 |
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| RST38h | ...and/or never thought of it | 15:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: aah, yes. If you don't do it in a lil bit smarter way, then that's probably true | 15:38 |
| RST38h | Probably considering it to be toounlikely | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: well, for example on appending to files it's quite feasible | 15:39 |
| ShadowJK | Yeah appending is normally fine | 15:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | that'd be a management of virgin bytes though, not a mgmt of virgin bits | 15:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | still better than mgmt of virgin sectors | 15:40 |
| RST38h | yeah | 15:40 |
| ShadowJK | And sometimes you can be half-filling more than one eraseblock, check that pdf I linked, they reversed engineered 3 different usb drives | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | sha\o/ | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | ehh? | 15:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: ^^^ | 15:41 |
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| RST38h | Arkanoid: At this rate, your epic mobile posts will end up at lurkmore. =) | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | GAN900, ping | 15:44 |
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| lolloo | merging contacts on N900 is not good specially with online accounts | 15:46 |
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| lolloo | the conact stop updating the status of my frnd. | 15:46 |
| lolloo | the picture stays same the name stays same even when my frnd changes his nick name | 15:47 |
| lolloo | it wont change on N900. | 15:47 |
| lolloo | I hope they fix this | 15:47 |
| lolloo | I never merge contacts now ever. | 15:48 |
| lolloo | I keep skype contacts seprate from MSN and sepreate from facebook | 15:48 |
| lolloo | and also normal phone numbers i keep them alone | 15:48 |
| lolloo | even if the same contact over and over again. | 15:49 |
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| lolloo | thats not practical ever. | 15:49 |
| ShadowJK | If you have two contacts with the same phone number, maemo just displays the phone number and not a name when he/she calls :-( | 15:50 |
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| lolloo | once I merge a contact the status stops updating | 15:50 |
| lolloo | yeah I keep changing letters!! | 15:50 |
| lolloo | zzz | 15:50 |
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| ShadowJK | I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be <contact>: (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) | 15:51 |
| lolloo | my frnd was asking me about his new profile picture | 15:51 |
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| lolloo | I said to him it is the same one as before | 15:51 |
| lolloo | i idnt know he changed it!!!! | 15:51 |
| ShadowJK | Like how would it know if it should show yahoo msn gtalk or facebook profile pic :-) | 15:52 |
| lolloo | because N900 stoppd updating status of him | 15:52 |
| ShadowJK | but then I don't use these things :/ | 15:52 |
| lolloo | it nows my friend. | 15:52 |
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| lolloo | specially facebook contacts | 15:52 |
| lolloo | my frnds change their profile picture time to time. | 15:53 |
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| lolloo | if I dont merge the contacs it will update their new picture profile. | 15:53 |
| dazo | Anyone got ideas how to get all the music back into Media Player? After updating to PR1.3, most of my music is not found by Media Player ... but it is all playable via Symphonie or other file based players | 15:53 |
| lolloo | but if I do merge them ! OMG | 15:53 |
| lolloo | stopps updating status. | 15:54 |
| lolloo | this needs fixing. | 15:54 |
| lolloo | also why I can't use only nickname to store a contact ??? | 15:54 |
| lolloo | do I really need firstname atleast!!?? | 15:55 |
| lolloo | when I edit a contact from facebook and try to save it ... BAM | 15:55 |
| lolloo | you need firt name!!! | 15:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | dazo: make sure you install aditional codec support as before | 15:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | dazo: it just doesn't play - or it's missing from the list? | 15:56 |
| lolloo | hate it! now all my conatcs are trippled!!! | 15:56 |
| lolloo | lol | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | dazo: then just add one song/file (or copy one), so tracker will do a reindex | 15:56 |
| lolloo | I havde the same person three times!!!! heh | 15:57 |
| lolloo | one for skype and facebook and mobilenumber. | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: yeah, we got your point | 15:57 |
| lolloo | just for the sake of status update | 15:57 |
| lolloo | anyone complained about this? | 15:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | you did, 5 times in a row now | 15:58 |
| lolloo | or all of you not into facebook and skype | 15:58 |
| dazo | DocScrutinizer: I've done that (adding needed codecs) as well ... I'll try to add a new song, even though I believe I tried that as well | 15:58 |
| lolloo | this should be filed as a bug to nokia! | 15:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | dazo: there are more "professional" ways to tell trackerd to start a scan. Don't ask me how's the exact cmdline incantation | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: so just do that!! | 16:00 |
| lolloo | I did send them email but no reply since | 16:00 |
| dazo | DocScrutinizer: :) I had a little hope for the cmdline version though .... :) | 16:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | of coure after checking for similar tickets | 16:00 |
| lolloo | mmm | 16:00 |
| dazo | lolloo: https://bugs.maemo.org/ | 16:00 |
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| lolloo | any patch to fix this? | 16:01 |
| lolloo | or script ? | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: [2011-01-03 14:51:17] <ShadowJK> I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be <contact>: (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) | 16:02 |
| lolloo | like runing a script to do a manuel update. | 16:02 |
| crashanddie | manual | 16:02 |
| lolloo | namual | 16:02 |
| lolloo | manual* | 16:02 |
| lolloo | he | 16:02 |
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| ShadowJK | What should it do if he has different profile pic on Skype and facebook | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | s/:/:<avatar>/ | 16:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: lolloo:<avatar> [2011-01-03 14:51:17] <ShadowJK> I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be <contact>: (Skype: NA MSN: Offline Yahoo: Busy GTalk: Online) | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/:/:<avatar>/g | 16:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: lolloo:<avatar> [2011-01-03 14:<avatar>51:<avatar>17] <ShadowJK> I think they had difficulty deciding if it should be <contact>:<avatar> (Skype:<avatar> NA MSN:<avatar> Offline Yahoo:<avatar> Busy GTalk:<avatar> Online) | 16:04 |
| * timeless_xchat sighs | 16:04 | |
| lolloo | it doesnt update!! | 16:04 |
| lolloo | thats why you shouldnt merge contatcs | 16:04 |
| ShadowJK | Could you answer the question instead of repeating yourself :-) | 16:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: WE HAVE READ THAT LINE BY NOW | 16:05 |
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| trumee | :) | 16:05 |
| * timeless_xchat debates filing a bug about omweather | 16:05 | |
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| * trumee hopes one day opensync will able to talk to N900 over syncml. | 16:06 | |
| lolloo | how can run my camera from N900 and stream it to vlc on my pc? | 16:06 |
| lolloo | is pr1.4 out? will it fix contact not updating the pic. | 16:07 |
| Venemo | lolloo: no. | 16:07 |
| lolloo | too bad oh well | 16:07 |
| ShadowJK | So do you want to have 7 different pictures there for all the different networks, or just one, and if just one, which one? | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: don't feed the troll! | 16:08 |
| lolloo | yes i want diferrent pictures for all networks | 16:09 |
| lolloo | facebook, skype, gtalk | 16:09 |
| lolloo | also diferent nicknames. | 16:09 |
| lolloo | but thats not the case, | 16:10 |
| NIN101 | Hmm, i want to get rid of this nokia splashscreen on startup. I compiled a kernel on with CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE=y but I still see it, but a lot shorter. Seems that probably a deep hack is needed. | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: splashscreen? | 16:10 |
| ShadowJK | NIN101, It's probably first put there by the bootloader :-) | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: shaking hands? | 16:10 |
| NIN101 | no, Nokia loader, the shaking hands just an avi which you can easily replace. | 16:11 |
| NIN101 | I mean the Nokia logo | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know | 16:11 |
| lolloo | like if i have a contact on facebook and i go edit it...and add a phone number, it stops updating after that. | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | the NOKIA logo is put there by NOLO | 16:11 |
| Venemo | lolloo: who cares? | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: YESSIR, WE HEARD IT | 16:11 |
| Venemo | NIN101: you probably can't remove it | 16:12 |
| lolloo | you care about logo on a phone? hehe | 16:12 |
| NIN101 | If so, the phone isn't that open. | 16:12 |
| lolloo | get a life | 16:12 |
| NIN101 | I will look into NOLO. | 16:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: NOLO is closed blob | 16:12 |
| Venemo | lolloo: you get a life | 16:12 |
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| NIN101 | damn :/ | 16:12 |
| lolloo | i do have life and frnds i care to see their status | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | but it shouldn't mess with fb anyway | 16:13 |
| lolloo | not a nokia logo | 16:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lolloo: STFU or +q | 16:13 |
| lolloo | yeah whatever geek | 16:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: fb should replace/overwrite "NOKIA". iirc the jumping dots spoil fb console output | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: NOLO is the bootloader. It doesn't really interfere with linux console output | 16:15 |
| ShadowJK | Well it draws the Nokia logo there, and it's left there until Linux clears it or puts something else there.. | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 16:16 |
| ShadowJK | the jumping dots are animated straight onto the fb, so console output would make the current state of that animation scroll upward whenever text scrolls :P | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | for powerkernel I seem to recall this kinda works for me | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | ShadowJK: yeah, that's annoying | 16:17 |
| ShadowJK | jumping dots are in the initscripts somewhere.. | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway I'm quite sure killing the dots is a matter of removing/editing an initfile | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 16:18 |
| Venemo | thx DocScrutinizer for getting rid of that kid | 16:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 16:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | might have a bright future as a standup commedian or radio moderator | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | he... obviously | 16:20 |
| Venemo | :-) | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: you tested powerkernel instead of your own homegrown? | 16:21 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, pong? | 16:22 |
| NIN101 | yes, compiling powerkernel atm. | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | NIN101: iirc there've been problems with fb enabled kernels in the past - like multiple reboots until final successfull bootup | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | still it seems most recent PK has fb enabled once again - I might be wrong | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe MohammadAG knows more | 16:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: oops sorry, I was wrong. current PK doesn't enable fb&console. I confused it with uBoot output and backup-menu output | 16:30 |
| NIN101 | same result with power kernel, but at least no reboot loop or something like that | 16:31 |
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| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: has anyone filed a bug about vcs.garage's cert expiring on dec 31st? (not jan 1)? | 16:40 |
| X-Fade | timeless_mbp: yes. | 16:40 |
| jhb1 | hi *. I am trying fm-boost, but I still only get a range of about 1-2m, and /sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-0063/power_level stays at 106, no matter what. Any ideas? | 16:41 |
| ShadowJK | the power is locked since PR1.3 | 16:41 |
| timeless_mbp | X-Fade: btw, expiring on dec31st is amusing :) | 16:41 |
| Venemo | jhb1: search for jacekowski's fmtxd, try that | 16:41 |
| jhb1 | Venemo: thx | 16:42 |
| ShadowJK | It was locked in kernel :-) | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | jhb1: rmmod and modprobe the kernel module and then immediately setting power should work | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | it locks max power to what's written first there | 16:43 |
| jhb1 | DocScrutinizer: which module? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 16:44 |
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| jhb1 | fmtx_si4713 ? | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah prolly | 16:44 |
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| jhb1 | DocScrutinizer: /me tries | 16:45 |
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| jhb1 | DocScrutinizer: numbers are now different, range not :-/ | 16:47 |
| jhb1 | thanks a lot | 16:47 |
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| jacekowski | jhb1: there is another option | 16:51 |
| jhb1 | jacekowski: I am just on your page | 16:51 |
| jhb1 | :-) | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | ok | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | then you know it | 16:51 |
| jhb1 | jacekowski: reading http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD1.3 | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | read | 16:51 |
| jacekowski | http://jacekowski.org/Maemo/FMTXD | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | read that as well | 16:52 |
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| jacekowski | treat that 1.3 version as upgrade to 1.2 version | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | procedure is same | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | just one file instead of two | 16:52 |
| Corsac | hmmh, not in repo? | 16:52 |
| jacekowski | no | 16:53 |
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| Corsac | is there a reason? (like legal stuff or so?) | 16:55 |
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| jacekowski | legal stuff | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | and you're not allowed to modify system files | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | replace* | 16:55 |
| Corsac | good point | 16:55 |
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| jacekowski | some people don't care about it | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | but that's in guidelines for repository | 16:55 |
| jacekowski | besides, it's only one file | 16:56 |
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| * GAN900 doesn't know why he's responding to the DRM thread. | 16:58 | |
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| ShadowJK | Interestingly nobody has pointed out that legal music sales were mostly nonexistant until they started giving up DRM | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | hey, i want to install MohammadAG 's media player on an n900 | 16:59 |
| timeless_mbp | anyone have instructions? | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | (and then people who bought DRMd music legitimately started getting shafted as MS "Plays for sure" servers started shutting down) | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 17:00 |
| jacekowski | GAN900: link | 17:00 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: not so much | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: look at itunes | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: it was a ot more popular than anything else | 17:01 |
| jacekowski | because it automaticaly did everything for you | 17:02 |
| jacekowski | and there was no annoying drm problem visible to user | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | I think teh first lesson from itunes is: not everyone can be apple | 17:02 |
| Venemo | timeless_mbp: pm'd you | 17:02 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: that was deep | 17:02 |
| GAN900 | jacekowski, one sec. | 17:03 |
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| GAN900 | jacekowski, starts here: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002978.html | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | No really, you have to make it *work* painlessly right from the start, and it helps to have devoted droves of users who love you and who's trust you have | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | I guess it also helps if you know how to process payments :/ | 17:05 |
| * ShadowJK looks at ovi | 17:05 | |
| RST38h | GAN: Well, he is right. | 17:05 |
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| jhb1 | jacekowski: the combination of it seems to help. cheers! | 17:06 |
| jacekowski | ShadowJK: well, card payment is less annoying once you remember card numbers and stuff | 17:07 |
| jacekowski | so you don't have to take your card out of wallet | 17:07 |
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| ShadowJK | Well I was referring to that ovi fail where they couldn't take payment from half of europe for several months :) | 17:12 |
| ShadowJK | (while paypal and amazon did it just fine on the same cards with the same info) | 17:13 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, that MeeGo needs to have a security framework to compete? | 17:15 |
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| Venemo | jhb1: is your issue solved? | 17:16 |
| jhb1 | Venemo: still working on it | 17:16 |
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| jhb1 | Venemo, jacekowski: had it working once, but it didn't survive reboot. The thread with the instructions http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=60567 is 29 pages long - is there (in the end) anything beyond copying fmtxd and restarting it? | 17:29 |
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| * alterego wonders if anyone has leaked the wl drivers yet. | 17:37 | |
| Venemo | jhb1: no idea, sorry | 17:37 |
| Venemo | alterego: what leaked wl drivers? | 17:37 |
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| hcf | lol | 17:41 |
| alterego | The wl drivers with injection support that that guy is selling with mandatory donations. | 17:41 |
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| alterego | Just wondering if anyone has leaked them yet. | 17:42 |
| crashanddie | I did | 17:43 |
| Venemo | alterego: he also distributes the source | 17:44 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 17:44 |
| alterego | Well, it is GPL | 17:44 |
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| * ieatlint notes it's legal to sell gpl software | 17:48 | |
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| alterego | Never said anything about the legality of it :P | 17:53 |
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| ieatlint | fair enough :P | 17:54 |
| alterego | Besides, we've had more than enough debates over that over the past week or so ;) | 17:55 |
| ieatlint | hehe, ok... you just seemed awfully critical for someone with their own plans to sell an app :P | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | he's not really selling the app, is he? | 17:56 |
| crashanddie | I mean, it's not like he's requiring people to purchase a licence to use his application | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | he's actually requiring a donation for access to the source code | 17:57 |
| crashanddie | which, in itself, is a violation of the GPL | 17:57 |
| jaska | someone did leak it at some point | 17:57 |
| ieatlint | does he give the binary for free? | 17:57 |
| jaska | and leaking it should be ok as it is afterall gpl :) | 17:58 |
| crashanddie | it wouldn't be a violation if however, he was asking for a "fair amount of money to cover the costs of making the source code available" | 17:58 |
| jaska | i have it mirrored at home somewhere | 17:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, wl12xx driver again? | 17:58 |
| ieatlint | not sure one can call it possible to "leak" gpl code... think it's just called redistributing it | 17:58 |
| jaska | gnu public leak! | 17:59 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: licence fights are rather entertaining :P | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't see what left over to discuss there. | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's perfectly ok to SELL routers with linux binaries, as long as customer is allowed to download the source somewhere (after compensating for processing the request) | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what can be wrong with SELLING binaries, as long as you ship the source with it? | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | yes, and? | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and he doesn't even do that, he just ASKS for a DONATION | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | well, no | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | he demands payment | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | considering there is no alternative for download | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | donnate 1 cent for hosting costs. Absolutely legitimate | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | also, when you buy a router, you pay for the hardware | 18:02 |
| crashanddie | here, you're only paying for... hosting? | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | for whatever | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | buy RHEL | 18:03 |
| ieatlint | does he offer the binary for free though? | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | what you are paying for there? | 18:03 |
| ieatlint | or is that part of this "donation"? | 18:03 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, support | 18:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: so what? | 18:03 |
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| crashanddie | and subscription to their online software center | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, read GPL | 18:04 |
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| crashanddie | I did | 18:04 |
| crashanddie | Again, I'm not saying it's a violation of the GPL or anything | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | I'm off work | 18:05 |
| crashanddie | later all | 18:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ""you developed it for LINUX! we are entitled you give it to us for free!"" GASHEADS | 18:06 |
| * ieatlint agrees | 18:06 | |
| ieatlint | the GPL is about ensuring code does not become closed, NOT that it remains free | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer, you ought to know better with me ;) | 18:07 |
| chem|st | what was that now about those square card dongles? | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: wasn't adressed to you | 18:07 |
| crashanddie | k | 18:07 |
| ieatlint | chem|st: give me an address... i'm hitting the post office in 30min :P | 18:07 |
| ieatlint | ieatlint@tehinterweb.com | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Soooo | 18:10 |
| RST38h | What is new and exciting going on, except for a bunch of middle schoolers trolling tmo? | 18:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: maybe mwkn? | 18:13 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you wanted one of thos dongles too? | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep, much | 18:13 |
| RST38h | Doc: Nah | 18:13 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: ieatlint will send me some and I fwd | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 18:13 |
| * timeless_mbp sighs | 18:14 | |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: just 1? | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm racing an hgsubversion convert w/ an ovi suite install | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, is enough | 18:14 |
| ieatlint | òk | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the ovi suite install "This may take a few minutes" has been running for an hour or so | 18:14 |
| timeless_mbp | the conversion estimated something like 20mins and is right on time | 18:14 |
| ieatlint | now i need to quickly remember where the fuck i put them, heh | 18:14 |
| RST38h | Ah, SandyBridge is out | 18:15 |
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| RST38h | Still called Core i3/5/7, how will people distinguish it from the last years' i3/5/7? Weird. | 18:16 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: what does dsme do? what is the difference between dsme and mce? | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | *burp* by looking at 65I334327a33jkhdsh | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | dsme starts & controls processes | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce manages hardware | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | basically | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | so the overlap on some domains | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | they* | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: do a ssme-tool --help | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | grrr | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | dsmetool --help | 18:19 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: is it the same as http://gitorious.org/dsme ? | 18:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd think mostly to yes | 18:20 |
| Venemo | mhm | 18:20 |
| Venemo | thx DocScrutinizer | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 18:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | obviously the thermal mgmt and wd-kicking is more of an mce domain basically | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | while mce handling power button is arguably more like a genuine dsme domain | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | both are evil, anyway. dsme is "open" at least | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I'm amazed they opened up dsme while mce still closed | 18:23 |
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| ieatlint | ok, i'm off to post office and bank fun... be back with customs/tracking info for some people | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | customs \o/ | 18:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: write "you forgot you junk!!" on the envelope :-D | 18:26 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I'm not sure if that is the same dsme as Maemo's | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure either, but it's close from description. Maybe they left parts out that they didn't like to disclose | 18:28 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: hm, the authors email addresses are @nokia.com, so it is likely | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask stskeeps, he should know details | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny enough he doesn't even join this chan anymore | 18:29 |
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| Venemo | for the moment, it doesn't interest me too much, I was just messing around and found it interesting that they opened it | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I know they did, quite some time ago iirc | 18:30 |
| Venemo | so why not mce? | 18:30 |
| Venemo | (maybe they merged the dangerous code from dsme into mce? :P) | 18:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | can't see that. But maybe mce wasn't exactly needed by stskeeps for mer? | 18:47 |
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| Venemo | heh | 18:51 |
| Venemo | maybe. | 18:51 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, by looking at the really long model numbers, of course! | 18:52 |
| GAN900 | Hey, new socket, too! | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: that's what I meant :-D | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: how's life? | 18:53 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, glad the holidays are over. | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 18:54 |
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| GAN900 | Glad 2010's over | 18:54 |
| GAN900 | what a shit year. | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 18:55 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, what's wrong with mwkn? :P | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm afraid the shit won't care about new year though | 18:55 |
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| GAN900 | Probably not | 18:55 |
| GAN900 | But at least it feels like a new start. | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: http://gitorious.org/dsme/dsme/merge_requests/5 ([2011-01-03 17:21:50] <DocScrutinizer> while mce handling power button is arguably more like a genuine dsme domain) :-D | 19:05 |
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| HtheB | hi | 19:10 |
| HtheB | sup all | 19:10 |
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| HtheB | lol, everybody is sleeping again | 19:12 |
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| HtheB | how ironic.... | 19:13 |
| HtheB | :D | 19:13 |
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| HtheB | MohammedAG, u there? | 19:15 |
| HtheB | MohammadAG * | 19:15 |
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| ieatlint | alterego: your dongle is finally en route | 19:19 |
| ieatlint | ~10 day travel time | 19:19 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: and chem|st will have them in approx 10 days as well | 19:20 |
| ieatlint | cost the same to mail 2 as it did 7 to two different countries, heh | 19:22 |
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| alterego | ieatlint: why thank you :D | 19:24 |
| alterego | ieatlint: I'd forgotted :D | 19:24 |
| alterego | Heh | 19:24 |
| ieatlint | yeah, delayed by xmas, and then by the fact that i've been sick for the last 8 days :( | 19:24 |
| ieatlint | i mailed you 2.. | 19:25 |
| alterego | Heh well, I don't really even need one ;) | 19:26 |
| alterego | Except to test your s/w | 19:26 |
| * ieatlint shrugs | 19:26 | |
| alterego | Still it will be cool to play with. | 19:26 |
| ieatlint | sell it to some kid who wants to skim credit cards | 19:26 |
| alterego | Hahah | 19:26 |
| ieatlint | they're still free to me in reasonable quantities, so yeah | 19:27 |
| ieatlint | and with the cost the same to mail 1 or 7 (apparently)... why not | 19:27 |
| alterego | Heh, | 19:27 |
| alterego | Did you have a good Chrimbo, New Year btw? | 19:27 |
| ieatlint | yeah... xmas was great, then i got sick on boxing day, got just well enough to think it was a good idea to go to a party for new year, and i'm recovering still.. :P | 19:28 |
| ieatlint | how was yours then? | 19:28 |
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| alterego | Really good yeah :) | 19:29 |
| alterego | But | 19:29 |
| alterego | I always enjoy socialising and seeing family. | 19:29 |
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| ieatlint | your family must be more sane than mine | 19:31 |
| alterego | No, they're all quite insane, but that's why it's quite fun :D | 19:31 |
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| HtheB | anyone knows how to disable and enable the bluetooth module | 19:34 |
| HtheB | from xterm? | 19:34 |
| HtheB | (for the N900) | 19:34 |
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| ieatlint | it's probably a dbus call | 19:35 |
| ieatlint | unless you mean like rmmod style | 19:36 |
| ieatlint | http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Bluetooth has details on starting/stopping bluetooth | 19:36 |
| ieatlint | via dbus | 19:36 |
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| HtheB | ieatlint, I'm regarding that because of this: | 19:38 |
| HtheB | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=910702#post910702 | 19:38 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i don't have an answer for you there | 19:39 |
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| HtheB | hope someone else has | 19:39 |
| ieatlint | someone in here might... as might someone on tmo | 19:40 |
| ieatlint | running this might prove interesting though: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Identify_adapter_path | 19:41 |
| ieatlint | that will at least tell you if maemo see your adapter at all even | 19:41 |
| ieatlint | dmesg may or may not yield some error messages or other helpful info | 19:42 |
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| trumee | ieatlint, what dongle is that? | 19:55 |
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| ieatlint | dongle to read magnetic stripes | 19:56 |
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| * timeless_xchat rotfl | 19:56 | |
| * timeless_xchat cries | 19:56 | |
| timeless_xchat | so... omweather is um... creative | 19:56 |
| timeless_xchat | jaffa, trumee, lcuk, x-fade, et al: ping | 19:57 |
| trumee | ieatlint, ah i see. Google Nexus S has this NFC thing. could be intersting in the future. | 19:57 |
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| trumee | timeless_xchat, pong | 19:57 |
| ieatlint | yeah, except the NFC on the nexus s supports 13.56mhz only methinks | 19:57 |
| ieatlint | rfid credit cards operate on a different frequency | 19:58 |
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| ieatlint | 125khz if memory serves right | 19:58 |
| timeless_xchat | trumee, so, quiz | 19:58 |
| trumee | ieatlint, right | 19:58 |
| timeless_xchat | what's an "s. mi"? | 19:58 |
| * trumee is not running omweather. | 19:58 | |
| ieatlint | the idea is definitely intriguing though... | 19:58 |
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| trumee | timeless_xchat, no idea! | 19:59 |
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| * trumee is wondering whether Nokia plans to build Ovi/PC suite for linux in the future, considering meego is all linux. | 20:00 | |
| alterego | trumee: and ovi suite is all Qt, doesn't mean they will :/ | 20:01 |
| trumee | alterego, ah!, didnt realise Ovi was Qt. I miss direct device to computer sync not through that ugly funambol. | 20:02 |
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| trumee | Opensync is an epic fail and is almost a dead project. | 20:04 |
| alterego | trumee: Ovi suite, PC suite, it's been writting in Qt for as long as I can remember. | 20:04 |
| alterego | Even before the aquisition of troll tech. | 20:04 |
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| trumee | so there is no syncing solution at present. | 20:04 |
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| * trumee wonders why enterprise linux companies dont throw money at opensync | 20:05 | |
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| johnsq | Hi | 20:07 |
| HtheB | ieatlint, it says: | 20:07 |
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| HtheB | Error org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.ServiceUnknown: The name org.bluez was not provided by any .service files | 20:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a way to get pictbridge gadget? | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Is there a pictbridge gadget even | 20:09 |
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| alterego | What's one of those? :D | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | pictbridge is a way to move pictures over USB. | 20:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It was implemented in many cameras as an alternative to mass storage. | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | And some printers. | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I have a printer that does it, my n900 won't work in mass storage mode for some reason I don't understand, and I can't work out what disk type/... it wants as mass storage on a printer. | 20:10 |
| SpeedEvil | as mass storage on a plugged in drive | 20:11 |
| SpeedEvil | partition type/format | 20:11 |
| SpeedEvil | And I'm trying to print pictures. | 20:11 |
| * SpeedEvil sighs. | 20:11 | |
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| trumee | SpeedEvil, yeah my HP printer has pictbridge too, but never used it. | 20:14 |
| * alterego contemplates getting osmocombb stack runnin on N900 | 20:17 | |
| alterego | I'd need RS232 | 20:17 |
| alterego | Hrm. | 20:17 |
| alterego | I could use my RS232 bluetooth dongle. | 20:17 |
| cehteh | isnt one of the ports behind the battery a serial port? | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: impossible - oh do you mean to control a reciever phone? | 20:18 |
| alterego | It is, | 20:18 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: yes | 20:18 |
| cehteh | otherwise there are good working usb to rs232 converted .. might work with hostmode | 20:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah - yeah - that'd work | 20:18 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: I just mean running the user space on the N900 ;) | 20:18 |
| SpeedEvil | Need mass storage too for the rainbow tables. | 20:19 |
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| alterego | What the 10TiB or whatever it is? :D | 20:19 |
| * trumee wonders what is special about MohammadAG media player. | 20:19 | |
| alterego | trumee: it's FOSS | 20:19 |
| alterego | trumee: supports portrait mode, has prettier looking album art. | 20:20 |
| alterego | And we can hack on it. | 20:20 |
| trumee | alterego, ah nice. But Mediabox does most of that? | 20:20 |
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| trumee | alterego, although python drags it down a bit. | 20:21 |
| alterego | Dunno, don't use it. Mohammediaplayer is a drop in replacement for the inbuilt media player. | 20:21 |
| trumee | alterego, is it written in C++? | 20:22 |
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| alterego | Yes | 20:23 |
| trumee | alterego, should be good for the future. its not released yet? | 20:24 |
| alterego | It's WIP | 20:24 |
| alterego | But you can download, compile and install it. | 20:24 |
| trumee | right. | 20:24 |
| alterego | R1 is supposed to be mid to late this month. | 20:24 |
| trumee | nice | 20:25 |
| alterego | So, still a bit needs to be done. | 20:25 |
| alterego | But it's coming along extremely well. | 20:25 |
| trumee | alterego, is it Qt based? | 20:26 |
| alterego | Yes of course | 20:26 |
| trumee | good. | 20:26 |
| ieatlint | SpeedEvil: this what you mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picture_Transfer_Protocol | 20:27 |
| alterego | Is that for printing? | 20:27 |
| * trumee tried BlessN900 for the first time and found stock camera photos produces more realistic photos compared to BlessN900. | 20:27 | |
| ieatlint | there's software for linux to implement as a client (libptp, which is used by several apps)... not seen it as a server | 20:27 |
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| ieatlint | alterego: not explicitly | 20:28 |
| alterego | Sure, but is that what printers use? :) | 20:29 |
| * trumee guess need to do more comparisons before concluding anything. | 20:29 | |
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| ieatlint | i would guess yes | 20:29 |
| trumee | what does "low light" mean? | 20:29 |
| ieatlint | i know most cameras support ptp | 20:29 |
| ieatlint | and it's what photo apps on windows/osx/linux typically use to talk to cameras (in lieu of usb mass storage mode) | 20:30 |
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| __20h__ | Good evening. I installed via fapman a different clock for the status panel. After removing it, did the battery status display disappear. Anyone knows a hint, how to configure this status panel and its applets and what needs to be entered there for the standard battery status? | 20:33 |
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| __20h__ | It was the »advanced-clock-plugin«. | 20:40 |
| __20h__ | But those seem to be unrelated. | 20:40 |
| SpeedEvil | have you rebooted? | 20:42 |
| __20h__ | I haven't; I will try. | 20:42 |
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| Jaffa | timeless_xchat: pong | 20:44 |
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| timeless_xchat | jaffa, so, quiz | 20:45 |
| timeless_xchat | what's an "s. mi"? | 20:45 |
| Jaffa | "standard mile"? (as opposed to nautical...) | 20:45 |
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| timeless_xchat | jaffa, ever used OMWeather? :) | 20:46 |
| Jaffa | timeless_xchat: Not since diablo | 20:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maemo.org BETA?? LOL | 20:46 |
| timeless_xchat | can i get you to install it for a bit? (you can uninstall when we're done) | 20:47 |
| daxt | guyz when i open the camera slider , i want the LEDs to light up and not to open the camera app , how do i do it ? | 20:47 |
| timeless_xchat | docscrutinizer, of course | 20:47 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: wut? | 20:47 |
| timeless_xchat | everything is better in beta, ask google! | 20:47 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Was supposed to be removed ages ago - I still see it and CBA to moan at the appropriate people | 20:47 |
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| timeless_xchat | CBA? | 20:48 |
| timeless_xchat | can't be arsed? | 20:48 |
| Jaffa | timeless_xchat: Indeed | 20:48 |
| timeless_xchat | jaffa, so, omweather? :) | 20:49 |
| daxt | guyz when i open the camera slider , i want the LEDs to light up and not to open the camera app , how do i do it ? | 20:49 |
| SpeedEvil | there isn't an app for that | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | there is a app that gives you the chouce what you want to happen | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | two buttons - open camera, turn on flashlight | 20:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I forget what it's alled | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | clale | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | clealr | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | named | 20:51 |
| SpeedEvil | I want an app that starts the cam, unless I open the shutter witht eh camera pointed down | 20:51 |
| timeless_xchat | i want a pony! | 20:52 |
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| __20h__ | Found it. Somehow the status-area-applet-battery.desktop was moved from /usr/share/applications/hildon-status-menu to ./disabled | 20:52 |
| Venemo | Jaffa: I guess there's not much point in removing the beta caption now. | 20:52 |
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| Venemo | question is, when'll they shut down maemo.org and tell everyone to f*ck off to meego.com | 20:56 |
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| __20h__ | It was the advanced-power-manager, which took it away. | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: They will not | 21:05 |
| timeless_xchat | jaffa, try settings in omweather. .. | 21:05 |
| timeless_xchat | i'm about out of power | 21:06 |
| Venemo | RST38h: so maemo.org will remain forever the last stand of a dead platform? | 21:06 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: "They"'ll never do that, cos the community (i.e. the council) own maemo.org | 21:06 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Will not tell you to go to Meego.com instead, that is. Meego.com is more for core developers and contributors, not for you | 21:06 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Who pays for the servers though? | 21:06 |
| Venemo | RST38h: yeah, right now it is :) but as soon as it'll begin to be productized, who knows | 21:06 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: Maemo 5 is the best next-gen mobile OS exists for my use-cases right now. Especially with teh CSSU | 21:06 |
| Venemo | Jaffa: agreed :) | 21:07 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: The better question is "are servers so expensive that *if* Nokia pulled the plug before it was time, would the costs at that point be unrealistic?" | 21:07 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Paid for, perhaps, by amazon.* referrals for N9 purchases ;-) | 21:07 |
| Venemo | Jaffa: the important part is the "right now". the question is, what'll happen when MeeGo becomes actually usable? | 21:07 |
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| Jaffa | Venemo: At the moment, we have a commitment from Nokia to pay for maemo.org for the forseeable future. | 21:08 |
| Venemo | Jaffa: good to hear :) | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Don't try to avoid the question | 21:08 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: With a promise to give as much warning as possible for any change in that situation (which'd be about 6 months, as that's the budgetary process) | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Consider what happens when nokia pulls the budget instead | 21:08 |
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| RST38h | Venemo: I do not see it happening, sorry | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: When MeeGo becomes usable, lots of the community will move to MeeGo, as they also move to Android, iOS or maybe even WebOS | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes, that's what I'm talking about. | 21:09 |
| Venemo | RST38h: hehe :D | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Nokia budgets are revised every 6 months. | 21:09 |
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| Venemo | okay, so no need to worry for now | 21:09 |
| Jaffa | Venemo: Correct. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Ok. Come next July and you suddenly find out that there is no more money for maemo.org. Web servers shut down. Autobuilder shut down, Repositories shut down. X-Fade goes on vacation, just like he did last year, but permanently this time. | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Your actions? | 21:10 |
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| mc_teo` | hello, i have a problem with the facebook chat | 21:12 |
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| mc_teo` | it seems to disconnect quite frequently | 21:12 |
| mc_teo` | like every 5 seconds | 21:12 |
| mc_teo` | it connects, and shows contacts as being online, but then it disconnects quite quickly | 21:13 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: As I said, we'd have more notice than that. | 21:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Hopefuly we would. But somehow, I doubt it. See what happened to Symbian Foundation servers for example. | 21:14 |
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| timeless_xchat | the symbian downage sucked | 21:14 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Primarily, it'd be up to the Council - but if it were me, 1) mirror the content; 2) auto-builder should've been replaced by OBS by then; 3) temporarily host everything I can on my own colo box; 4) look for sponsors whilst putting ads on the site; provide a mechanism for community members to donate. | 21:14 |
| * timeless_xchat grumbles | 21:14 | |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: But if a server is turned off and no-one notices; does it matter? | 21:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Sounds like a plan. | 21:15 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well I do think some people will still be at maemo.org | 21:15 |
| MohammadAG | timeless_xchat, so the mediaplayer segfaulted for you? | 21:15 |
| RST38h | It has been a great community. | 21:15 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I can't predict the state of the community in 6-18 months time. If I could, Nokia would employ me in their strategic planning dept ;-) | 21:15 |
| timeless_xchat | yes | 21:15 |
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| timeless_xchat | and i'm about to run out of power | 21:15 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Indeed; I'm sure there'll be continued life in 770, N8x0 and - primarily - N900 owners. That's why getting the CSSU rolling now, before the N9 launches, is so key. | 21:16 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I can. In spite of not being employed at Nokia's strategic planning :) | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | "Youll notice that the boogey man is no longer a very common fear in children. Do you know why? We contained it. We have it locked in a cell somewhere, and study it." | 21:17 |
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| Venemo | ~ping | 21:47 |
| infobot | ~pong | 21:47 |
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| Venemo | ~botsnack | 21:56 |
| infobot | :), Venemo | 21:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | waitwaitwait, who was that flaming me for mentioning I should wget the maemo wiki some day? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder how my attitude or the way I put it back when is so much different to what I read from RST38h and Jaffa some 30+ lines backscroll | 22:28 |
| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Cos a wiki dump is a bit easier; and would be perfectly achievable before anything got turned off or lost. | 22:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | so how am I entitled to get flames for mentioning this? | 22:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-12-28.log.html#t2010-12-28T01:42:23 | 22:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Jaffa: all I said was >>nxt time friggin wiki is up I'll have to wget it. Completely<< | 22:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, obviously there are guys that love to hate me. I don't really care, just amused | 22:45 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: did you do that btw? ;) | 22:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not yet, it's not THAT simple a task (not to download all the special pages), and I hope wiki will be more responsive not between the years | 22:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | honestly somebody should have done this long ago, and meanwhile ought have published 17th monthly update of the pkg on maemo-extras | 23:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | considering it's basically the best and only documentation about maemo available | 23:03 |
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| Jaffa | DocScrutinizer: Well, the InfoCenter's OK. | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | InfoCenter? o.O | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you're not talking about that well hidden pdf on MyDocs, are you? | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | Err, no, | 23:06 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to google maemo infocenter | 23:06 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr library.maemodocs.nokia.com | 23:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 23:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yeah. Not bad either. Also online | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | some individuals prefer to get one big chunk and then browse the whole stuff offline, on takatukaland | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's not that long ago when always-online was a ludicrous idea. For some poor souls it's still today, when it comes to mobile devices and GPRS | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and honestly how much can an image of wiki.maemo.org be? 500MB, 100MB, 50? | 23:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell maybe even gzip it :-P It's *text* | 23:17 |
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| pupnik | always online is still expensive in terms of energy consumption and battery life | 23:23 |
| pupnik | try going on a 5 hour trip with irc open in n900 | 23:24 |
| kerio | you mean a 10-minute jog | 23:24 |
| pupnik | it's magical that it works at all | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | pupnik, I do it all day. | 23:24 |
| GAN900 | On EDGE though | 23:24 |
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| ds3 | try doing a 3.5day trip with a N900 :( | 23:27 |
| Suiseiseki | desu | 23:27 |
| ds3 | 5 hours should be doable with a little cleverness | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so I request a ftp or rsync access to download raw wiki.maemo.org in bulk | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | even 24h is somewhat feasible sometimes | 23:29 |
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| alterego | Neat, there's a CUDA WPA2 cracker | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | but not when you're frequently browsing the wiki ;-D | 23:30 |
| ds3 | it is the 3.5 day one that takes some planning :( | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ds3: this clearly needs a spare battery :-) | 23:30 |
| ds3 | DocScrutinizer: A? like 3 or so | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | depends | 23:30 |
| ds3 | even the N800 didn't cut it on a 3 day trip | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | N900 is better I heard | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you're not going GPRS or excessive WLAN | 23:31 |
| ds3 | really? even if I go in and out of coverage? | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope then of course not | 23:32 |
| ds3 | I really really really wish they did not do away with the dedicated charging port | 23:32 |
| ds3 | the USB batteries would have made nice secondary power sources | 23:32 |
| alterego | I've had my N900 on WLAN at my parents for 3 days before it ran out | 23:32 |
| alterego | I was well impressed, I even used it a bit ^.^ | 23:33 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: why do you need browsing the Maemo wiki that much? | 23:33 |
| ds3 | alterego: was 3G/2G completely disabled? | 23:33 |
| alterego | I only get 2G at my parents. | 23:34 |
| alterego | It wasn't disabled, no. | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: developing fancy shit for N900, while sitting in airplane? | 23:34 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:34 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :) | 23:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: the question is more like "why are so many users unaware of the wiki?" | 23:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it should ship with N900 ootb | 23:36 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: right :) | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | as a supplement to this nice 35pp pdf called manual | 23:36 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I've recently found an interesting doc on the wiki that talked about what I was interested in. unfortunately it wasn't up-do-date and didn't have deep enough info :( | 23:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's the inherent problem of every wiki I've seen so far | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | still usually you get a better idea than without it | 23:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a short glance at page history also helps a lot | 23:39 |
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| * javispedro curses | 23:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | wazzup? | 23:42 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: I would need an internal readme or diagram about the hildon-desktop code structure and inner workings (something like what timeless gave us about libmatchbox2) | 23:42 |
| GAN900 | What's funny is that the best wikis I've ever seen on the internet are for video games. | 23:42 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: this page _almost_ explains it nicely: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/UI_Framework | 23:42 |
| javispedro | something along the bluez rfcomm stack is converting my \r\n's into \r\r\n | 23:42 |
| GAN900 | (See any Elder Scrolls game) | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: that's smething usually neglected by developers though | 23:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: lol | 23:44 |
| javispedro | what could possibly be line-ending aware in rfcomm? | 23:44 |
| javispedro | tty subsystem? | 23:44 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: there must exist some kind of thing that talks about it. no single person can hold the inner workings of 25-30 1000+ line long C files | 23:44 |
| javispedro | l2cap? I have nfi. | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: tty line discipline | 23:44 |
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| javispedro | see, that's why I came to this channel =) | 23:44 |
| javispedro | now, where's that google when you need it :) | 23:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: I suspect conspiracy meetings in Nokia's 7th cellar | 23:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: http://en.tldp.org/HOWTO/Serial-HOWTO.html | 23:47 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: :D | 23:48 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: many thanks :) | 23:48 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: here is a picture of said meeting: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bertogg/3707868233/ | 23:48 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: unfortunately the pic is to blurry to see the diagram on it. :( | 23:53 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: the only parts visible from it are the things I already know. | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah - "Fremantle" | 23:55 |
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| Venemo | bah | 23:59 |
| Venemo | I accidentally plugged out the N900 | 23:59 |
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