IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2010-11-27

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SpeedEvilcorecode: A 1000W floodlamp00:10
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corecodethis channel is as useless as ever00:12
GAN900corecode, evidently you've not been entertained.00:13
* GAN900 kills himself.00:13
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alteregoI don't believe it ..00:20
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SpeedEvilcorecode: In principle, you could obtain the NDA'd datasheet of the cam00:24
corecodewell, something fiddles with the brightness00:24
corecodebecause sometimes it is completely dark00:24
corecodeand sometimes not00:24
MohammadAGhmm, how do i disable a hildon button?00:29
MohammadAGI use setEnabled(bool) in Qt00:29
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comawhiteanyone know why I get this error? E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable.00:33
alteregoNasty, you didn't install on a fat partition did you? ^.^00:33
comawhitetrying to install scratchbox00:33
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Termanagood morning00:34
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jacekowskiis there anything worth seeing in paris?00:41
crashanddiejacekowski: quite a few museums, very nice clubs, bars and cafés, good restaurants as well. Historical places, eiffel tower, etc.00:42
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crashanddiejacekowski: pretty much as much to see in Paris as say, London.00:43
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crashanddieTermana: g'day00:43
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DocScrutinizermy weekend toy: solar charger&List=0&SortField=0&ProductID=12476&Pics=100:46
pupnikthe people who are stealing the money are the criminals00:46
pupnikthe people who are murdering the people are the criminals00:46
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ShadowJKweekend toy?00:49
DocScrutinizerjust unpacking it00:49
ShadowJKI've been trying to find a similar device, but thermoelectric instead of photovoltaic00:50
DocScrutinizerfunny device, 7.77€ yesterday's special00:50
ShadowJKThey're worth it even without the panel :-)00:50
ShadowJK(if otherwise in working order)00:50
* SpeedEvil is idly pondering a large solar panel.00:51
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SpeedEvilSolar cells are cheap on ebay, and I have this big pile of bus-windows.00:51
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* ShadowJK wants something like
SpeedEvilThe efficiency is unfortunately laughable.00:52
SpeedEvilBut not useless if you've got a free source of heat.00:52
DocScrutinizerI'd use mirrors to multiply the light on them, and cool them with liquid I'd use to do thermosolar00:53
ShadowJKwood is free from own forest (takes work though) :-)00:53
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* SpeedEvil passes ShadowJK a newcomen beam engine.00:54
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DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20631) terminated with status 201:03
DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:48 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning01:03
DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process (20650) terminated with status 201:03
DocScrutinizerNov 27 00:02:50 IroN900 init: flashlight-extra main process ended, respawning01:03
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DocScrutinizerguess flashlight-extra uninstall scripts need a bit of love until it may promote to extras01:10
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alteregobluetooth streaming is working :D01:12
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* alterego tests with his N81001:12
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alteregoWorking in master mode anyway, gotta setup slave mode next.01:14
alteregosweeeet :D01:16
myuu_that sounds cool01:17
myuu_also my app manager is taking long to reload01:17
myuu_what can I do about that01:17
myuu_after an installation, its not slow in any other action01:18
marmouteI think it update after every installl.01:19
alteregoThere's something odd happpening, but it's kind of working :D01:20
myuu_oh you have it too01:20
myuu_yeah I dont mind it, i just change to another thing while I wait01:21
myuu_id like to know why its taking longer01:21
ShadowJKI think it's slower the more repositories (catalogs) you have enabled01:21
myuu_I only have extra-devel and maemo updates01:22
myuu_enabled, maybe its just a prob with extras-devel, ill check01:22
ShadowJKextra-devel would do it, it's huge :-)01:22
* ShadowJK only has extras01:22
myuu_well that makes sense01:23
myuu_ill time it vs extras01:23
alteregoSomething appears to be blocking my application.01:25
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alteregoThis is quite fun :)01:47
alteregoN900+Columbus --(via bluetooth)--> Laptop : Displayig my position on a map.01:48
alteregoWorks with the N810 pretty well too.01:48
alteregoSo, I think it's safe to say that it works with anything that can read NMEA.01:49
alteregoI think tomorrow, I'm going to drop it into my gfs' bag, and get it to stream over 2G to my server, then grab that stream from my server and use socat to create a serial device, then display it on a map.01:50
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SpeedEvilVoice recording too, remember.01:51
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SpeedEvilAlso FFT the accellerometer to reveal rhythmical motion in the 0.5-5Hz range.01:52
alteregoI was thinking of using my FFT to detect bottlenecks in a journey.01:53
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alteregoAnd basically detect when you're not moving.01:53
alteregoI'm suprised at how crap all the GPS apps I've found for Linux are though :/01:54
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jacekowskitomtom is linux based01:57
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alteregoSomething that'll run on a desktop distro, that's foss01:59
alteregoNow that v1 is feature complete, I'm gonna start working on the meego port and I'll probably get it to work on desktop too.02:00
alteregoWell, after I've done some more tests and tweaks.02:01
ieatlintalterego: "i think tomorrow i'm going to track the movements my unwitting girlfriend" :P02:02
alteregoIt's be nice to obtain a N8 to port to symbian too, but we'll see.02:03
ieatlintnokia seems to be handing those out like candy...02:03
ieatlintprobably just need to find some nokia event near you02:04
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alteregoheh, been and gone ...02:04
alteregoI've missed all the major events.02:04
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alteregoMaybe an email for a loaner or something.02:04
ieatlintthat sucks02:04
alteregoI need to do some more wet testing, then advetise and sell.02:05
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alteregoThough, I dunno how many will be interested in such an app.02:05
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Termanaalterego, You're going to try and sell an app but make it FOSS at the same time?02:09
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ieatlintthe n8 also offers a digital compass02:09
alteregoTermana: no, not making it foss02:10
ieatlintand a screen resolution that is a bit smaller, heh02:10
alteregoYeah, still I think it should translate okay.02:10
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alteregohey lcukn90002:14
Jay_BEEhmm i wonder if Nokia will be at CES in Vegas02:15
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Termanaalterego, not FOSS? Oh my, you deviant devil child you! :P02:16
* Termana adds sarcasm tag just in case02:16
Jay_BEEwhy yes they will02:16
alteregoTermana: I don't like it, but I need the money :P02:17
ieatlintyeah, i think i saw that nokia was scheduled to be pushing meego at ces at a minimum02:18
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Termanaalterego, it's fine by me. Developers need to eat as well.02:21
Termanarms is looking a bit pale lately, I don't think he is eating02:21
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alteregoAnyhow, I think it's bed time now :) G'night folks.02:33
myuu_I think the rootfs might be the culprit02:33
myuu_69.2 available02:34
myuu_could that be slowing down my app manager?02:34
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marmoutemyuu_: The app-manger do an "apt-get update" after every "apt-get install"02:39
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marmoutemyuu_: The mode repo you have, the more there is to do for each update02:40
marmouteIf you need speed, use apt-get from the command line02:40
myuu_well what about the rootfs02:41
myuu_is that an ok size to have left?02:41
myuu_using a different managet i get better speeds02:41
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alteregoI'm thinking of implementing an obex ftp server in my app so users can browse and download track data, though it seems like a useless gimmick ;)03:04
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DocScrutinizermyuu_: 69MB is pretty comfy for rootfs-freespace04:40
myuu_good cause deleting the bulkier apps04:41
myuu_isnt doing a thing04:41
myuu_im up to 7304:42
SpeedEvilyou don't care about size04:42
SpeedEvilyou care about size on /04:42
myuu_and now I know to stay away from extras-devel unless I need something that is only there04:45
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myuu_its probably my themes now that I think about it04:45
SpeedEvilWhy do you care about size on /04:49
myuu_its really more about04:51
myuu_wanting to know why its so full a day after buying it04:51
myuu_I didnt bother to check what it comes at by default04:51
SpeedEvilThere are three main filesystems04:52
SpeedEvilFirst you have mydocs - this is 28G or whatever - that's vfat, and is where the camera and stuff saves pictures, and where the USB-mass-storage drive is04:52
SpeedEvilThen you have / - this is 256M which lives right on top of the processor. This has all of the early-boot programs, and some random other stuff.04:53
SpeedEvilthen you have /home (also known as opt) which is 4G04:53
myuu_right and most apps install to opt04:54
myuu_im not concerned or anything04:54
myuu_it can all be repartitioned if need be04:54
myuu_im just doing this to learn04:54
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SpeedEvilYou can't.04:59
SpeedEvil / is 256M, and can not be easily replaced or changed.04:59
SpeedEvil(you can in principle replace it with 512M, but yield is likely to be under 10%, with a skilled operative and good equipment)04:59
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DocScrutinizererr 2G05:06
SpeedEvil2G? That large?05:06
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# df -h /home05:06
DocScrutinizerFilesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on05:06
DocScrutinizer/dev/mmcblk0p2            2.0G    491.3M      1.4G  26% /home05:07
SpeedEvilI thought you meant the POP for a moment05:07
SpeedEvilBattery Gauge die Temperature: 280 Kelvin05:07
SpeedEvil(but I have a lovely electric blanket)05:07
SpeedEvilAnd bread baking.05:08
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userhi, just wondering how i might connect my nokia n900 in such a way that i can take a dd image of it?06:07
useri wish to muck around with flashing it, but dont wanna lose my data06:07
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DocScrutinizeruser: your data is safe on /home and ~MyDocs06:09
userDocScrutinizer: i wish to keep all apps and other settings as well though06:10
DocScrutinizera proper dd img isn't a bad idea nevertheless. Obviously you need a rescue system for a correct img of /06:10
userDocScrutinizer: how would i temporarily load up a rescue image?06:11
DocScrutinizerbut backup app is pretty much restoring all apps and settings, aven after a flashing new rootfs06:11
DocScrutinizerwhat's not backed up are special edits you did manually to /etc/*06:12
DocScrutinizerand the like06:12
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userDocScrutinizer: is there a way to load an image only into ram?06:13
userlike a live image?06:13
DocScrutinizeranyway if you want to do it the absolute correct way, this might help:
DocScrutinizeryes, this is exactly that06:13
userthanks DocScrutinizer06:13
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DocScrutinizerbe aware though: it's usually a bad idea to do a physical img of NAND06:14
useri must go now, thanks again DocScrutinizer, much appreciated06:14
userDocScrutinizer: why is that?06:14
DocScrutinizerNAND has special bad block mgmnt and you can't simply write abck an img06:15
DocScrutinizera sure way to really break your device as much as possible06:16
userDocScrutinizer: i could use that to take and keep a local image, which i could mount loop, and rsync back though, correct?06:16
DocScrutinizeryou need tools like nand_erase and other special tools (can't recall the name) to write to raw nand06:16
userDocScrutinizer: i'll take a look - thanks :)06:17
DocScrutinizerI guess mounting the fs somewhere and do a logical img is a much better way06:17
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userDocScrutinizer: thanks again, much appreciated :)06:17
DocScrutinizerglad to help06:18
userits been a great help :)06:18
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dotblankI seem unable to install a maemo sysroot in madde08:04
dotblanksays it cannot find the sysroot file08:04
TiagoTiagoI'm looking for a tutorial on using the losetup command, prefferably taking in consideration any particularities the N900 might have that affect the use,  any suggestions?08:05
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TiagoTiagobasicly i'm thinking about setting up a virtual disk that is hosted on MyDocs dedicated for installing WebOS games08:07
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TiagoTiagoon a file on MyDocs*08:08
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TiagoTiagoballs :(08:25
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myuu_is there a browser that works ok on
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TiagoTiagofor watching or transmitting?08:42
TiagoTiagowhat happens when you try with microB.08:45
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TiagoTiagoanyway, i gotta go, cya08:54
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pupnikKrugman vs Germany:
pupnikWolfgang Franz, who heads the German government’s economic advisory panel known as the Wise Men, tore into Krugman — and the US — in an op-ed in the German business daily Wednesday, titled “How about some facts, Mr. Krugman?”09:02
pupnik“Where did the financial crisis begin? Which central bank conducted monetary policy that was too loose? Which country went down the wrong path of social policy by encouraging low income households to take on mortgage loans that they can never pay back?09:02
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* RST38h yawns09:05
infoboti guess moohoho is
RST38h[Texas] Gov. Rick Perry said Thursday he would support sending U.S. troops into Mexico to fight the drug war.09:05
RST38h...and good morning to you all.09:05
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Macerthis damn signal keeps moving between 3G and 3.5G09:15
Macerand it makes my phone stutter09:15
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Macerit is driving me nuts :)09:16
* DocScrutinizer51 sighs09:17
RST38hDon't talk on the cell phone while driving!09:18
* RST38h cackles09:18
RST38h(seriously though, you can force it into 2G mode and leave it there, if there are handoff problems with 3G)09:18
DocScrutinizer51check chanlog of maybe last 3 days about 3.5G09:20
DocScrutinizer51there's no such thing like sgnal moving 3 to 3.509:20
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DhraakellianDHR set off my highlights again09:31
Dhraakellianguess I should be a little more specific with my regex09:31
Dhraakelliantoday/tomorrow or the next day, I need to un-narf my package management09:32
Dhraakellianthings got a little confused when I tried to install kdepim-mobile09:33
Dhraakelliantwo different and differently named packages for clucene trying to be installed09:33
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Dhraakellianah, well, too late (or early, depending on vantage point) to figure it out now. The phone's still workin', and I need to be doing the same in about 6 hours, so I really need to head to bed09:34
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Khertan... my usb connector move more and more10:48
* Khertan fer10:48
* Khertan fear10:48
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myuu_careful khertan10:53
myuu_wouldnt want it to break off in the port10:53
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CableTwitchAs long as you're nnot swinging it around by the USB lead, he shouldnt break it ;O)10:57
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TermanaCableTwitch, is that what you think everyone else that got theirs broken was doing? (swinging around by the cable)11:05
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CableTwitchTermana: Nah, its just those connectors arent made of glass, and can take a few hits. Unless you do something REALLY supid.11:22
CableTwitchStupid too.11:22
myuu_weve all heard the stories11:23
myuu_from this particular model tho11:23
myuu_better safe than sorry11:23
myuu_and it does feel weak, in my opinion11:23
myuu_tho its probably an easy fix11:24
myuu_if you have some tweezers11:24
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CableTwitchI dropped mine on its port while the USB cable was plugged in. The port stayed attaced to the Mobo, but the interbals of the port did snap.11:28
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* trumee Finally jumped the gun and installed power-kernel. N900 USB router is awesome.11:39
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sjkis installing power-kernel a tedious process?11:44
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lolloo how do I install thp's taskswitcher patch for having bigger thumbnails in the switcher?12:05
lolloofound this,12:05
lolloobut it's kind of hard to do12:05
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alteregoAnd someone said it'd be easy?12:06
lolloofound this12:08
alteregolooks like you just install a package12:08
alteregosingle column or double column depending on what you prefer.12:08
lolloohey alterego,  congrats on your progress12:08
alteregothanks :)12:08
lollooyou got yourself testers I see.12:08
lollooI hope it goes all well!12:08
alteregoYeah, got a few little things to sort out, but it's mostly done, bluetooth was the last major feature.12:09
lolloooh man cant wait! something fresh!12:10
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lollooit still says incompatibile12:34
lolloook found this12:37
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trumeesjk: no was quite simple.13:13
trumeesjk: install through FAP, and a reboot.13:13
TermanaBut don't do that too hard13:13
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Termanaba dum tssss13:13
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crashanddieHoly crap: http://orrent-finder.com13:16
crashanddieshoot, http://torrent-finder.com13:16
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Termanacrashanddie, The U.S. Government now has the power to seize domains under US control and where domains are not under US control, force US ISPs to actively block access to the domain.13:24
Termanacrashanddie, also - they need to find a better graphics artist that backdrop just looks cheesy13:25
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crashanddieI think it's about time we launched that p2p self-manage dns/tcp framework13:26
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Termanacrashanddie, can still go here: (AFAIK it's the same site, but this domain hasn't been seized by the government)13:32
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crashanddienha, idc about torrents13:33
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crashanddiei mean, i'm sick of governments meddling with the web13:33
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myuu_yeah its the principle of the matter13:38
myuu_i mean thats a terrible site to go to for torrents anyway13:38
alteregoOh, someone has made a qml desktop widget loader, neat.13:40
TermanaWouldn't have a clue - I don't have enough bandwidth for torrents13:40
Termana:p *13:40
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Termanacrashanddie, seems like a standard thing for the US. The US Government wants to extend itself to where ever it can and enforce it's laws on it citizens no matter where they are - overseas, online, accessing overseas content online.13:42
TermanaToo bad Australia wants to meddle as well13:42
TermanaI couldn't care less what the US does, but what Australia does directly affects me :p13:42
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tzafrirI have a new n900. I'd like to copy over some pictures to my laptop (Debian Linux). How do I do that?13:52
tzafrirI was not able to see any partitions on the disk in USB mode.13:52
tzafrirOr should I use some software with the PC-Suite mode?13:52
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Corsactzafrir: select “mass storage” then mount whatever partition appear?13:53
tzafrirCorsac, I see two new discs (sdb and sdc)13:55
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tzafrirTheir IDs are usb-Nokia_N900_372041756775-0:0:0 and usb-Nokia_N900_372041756775-0:113:56
tzafrirI don't see them in /proc/partitions13:56
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tzafrirWhen I try to mount the disk device directly, mount seems to hang13:56
tzafrirI didn't wait long enough:  mount: /dev/sdb: unknown device13:57
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tzafrirCorsac, any idea what causes the above?13:59
* NooBmonk3y waves14:01
NooBmonk3ystupid question :) - is it possible to get the phones imei number from terminal?14:01
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TermanaNooBmonk3y, dbus-send --system --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/phone/SIM/security Phone.Sim.Security.get_imei14:02
alteregodbus I think you can query it.14:02
NooBmonk3yty :)14:02
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WizzupHas anyone ordered something from before? I'm just wondering since the site looks a bit ... weird?14:21
prontoi personaly don't trust it14:21
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WizzupShame, would be nice to get a solar charger and a battery with free shipping. I'll see if I can find something on the forum about this site14:25
NooBmonk3ylcuk, cn you think of any clever way to test the n900 IR sender?14:25
luke-jrWizzup: if you're payign w/ PayPal, not sure how it can go bad14:26
BCMMNooBmonk3y: the camera can probably see ir14:26
BCMMuse a mirror14:26
NooBmonk3yhmmmm... thinking in Healthcheck...14:26
NooBmonk3ycan determine if it exists, but testit it aint easy14:26
BCMMwell, the only way to test that infrared comes out is to detect the infrared14:27
NooBmonk3ylol good point14:28
BCMMhealthcheck has cam tests, right?14:28
NooBmonk3ywell the new one hasn't but will do :P14:28
NooBmonk3ythe problem is, the IR faces the wrong way for the camera to easily point at a mirror :p14:28
BCMMjust make it possible to flash the ir while doing that14:29
BCMMNooBmonk3y: now with a slight tilt14:29
BCMMunless it's highly directional14:29
NooBmonk3yhmmm might give that a go when i get the camera tests working :)14:29
BCMMyou could scatter it with a sheet of paper14:29
NooBmonk3ygood point14:29
NooBmonk3yFree mirror with every free download of healthcheck lol ;)14:30
BCMMi actually cannot work out how to do this with irreco and the cam app14:30
BCMMunless there is a really long ir code for it14:30
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BCMMwhich brings me to: anyone know of a tvbgone-style function for the n900?14:31
NooBmonk3yhmmm one last unrelated question, is it possible via dbus or terminal to get the local phone number from the sim?14:31
BCMMdo sim cards even know?14:31
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alteregoNooBmonk3y: I think so.14:31
alteregoI think there's a dbus command.14:31
NooBmonk3yalterego, ! oooOooOoo!14:31
alteregoI can't help other wise though :P14:32
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: thanks for yesterdays mention of "remote SCSI"; iSCSI worked perfectly and windows has a native client.14:43
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javispedro... and to think I was going to roll my own solution ...14:43
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tzafrirok, I give up on mounting. Giving ssh a shot14:44
tzafrirI was able to connect with ssh using root, but not using 'user'14:44
tzafrirI did not set a password for it anywhere, but I copied over an authorised key file (from root)14:45
alteregoMake sure the permissions on the file are correct.14:46
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tzafrirPermissins seem to be ok. But is it possible that sshd is fussy about the group being "users"?14:46
javispedroiirc the passwd file on stock maemo says "user" is disabled14:46
javispedroalso says that about "root"14:46
SpeedEvilyou need the right permissions on ~/,ssh too14:47
SpeedEviland ~14:47
tzafrirhmm... let's see. .ssh is already 700 . ~ is 755 (so not writable by anybody else)14:48
tzafrirI tried changing it to 700, and still no luck14:48
tzafrirauthorized_keys is 60014:48
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tzafrirjavispedro, hmm... so I have to set a password for the user to use a pubkey authentication?14:50
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SpeedEvilI have a password set for user, and it works14:51
SpeedEvilI dunno14:51
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tzafrirright. sshd tells me that the user is disabled14:52
tzafrirBut I had to start a separate sshd to see that14:52
tzafrirWhere can I see messages sent to syslog ?14:52
Commogood morning... probably stupid question: how do i auto-reject calls on the n900? the mycontacts applications seems to provide that feature i  cant really figure out how to enable it though...14:53
tzafrirI would really love to avoid setting a password for the user. I see that passwords are saved in /etc/passwd and use DES crypt14:54
tzafrirSo anybody running code on the device can have a shot at my password.14:55
tzafrirAny way to avoid that?14:55
myuu_isnt there a script that autoblocks incoming calls14:55
myuu_you just have to add them to a textfile14:55
myuu_**add the numbers14:55
javispedrotzafrir: set a random string as password hash14:55
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myuu_I think I saw it on youtube14:55
tzafrirjavispedro, I would like to avoid that, if not necessary14:56
javispedrotzafrir: like "*"; anything that cannot be the result of crypt()14:56
javispedrotzafrir: why?14:56
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tzafrirjavispedro, thanks. Replacing the '!' with a '*' did the trick14:57
tzafrir(for user 'user')14:57
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tzafrirnow, will digikam work over ssh?14:58
javispedroask whoever made digikam :)14:58
Commoor is there maybe a different way to autoreject calls than mycontacts? :s15:00
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tzafrirno luck there. They probably rely on kde "mounts", which I don't want to use15:06
tzafrirand I'm still unable to use the simple method of mounting a USB storage device15:06
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tzafrir(doesn't work. See above)15:06
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CableTwitchAhh, there we go.15:07
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Venemo_N900hi guys15:09
myuu_did you try the application Commo?15:09
Venemo_N900no, I haven't15:10
Venemo_N900what does it do?15:10
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myuu_youre commo? it blocks calls15:10
myuu_its a py script15:10
Venemo_N900sounds nice15:10
Venemo_N900Khertan, good afternoon15:10
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Venemo_N900I'm beginning to question AutoDisconect's usefulness15:17
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alteregoWell, I don't use it :P15:18
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Venemo_N900maybe I shouldn't either15:19
Venemo_N900but sometimes it is really good15:20
myuu_yeah I wouldnt use an app called auto disconnect15:20
myuu_what does it do?15:20
Venemo_N900it disconnetcs connections from which I forget to disconnect15:20
Venemo_N900saves lots of battery15:20
myuu_idk why you would forget15:20
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myuu_oh well I carry a spare too15:21
Venemo_N900but the problem is, I can't tell it not to do so when I'm ircing15:21
Venemo_N900at least it doesn't disconnect while the screen is on15:21
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Venemo_N900maybe I should talk to its author15:22
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Venemo_N900~seen Khertan15:22
infobotkhertan is currently on #maemo #meego. Has said a total of 56 messages. Is idling for 4h 28m 26s, last said: 'yep'.15:22
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TermanaTime to partah.15:31
* Termana does the birthday jiggle15:32
TermanaPfft. What a boring lot you guys are. And to think I schedule you guys in for the whole day for my birthday, like I had nothing else to do (*COUGH* I don't *COUGH*)15:33
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alteregoHappy birthday :)15:34
Termanaalterego, thanks :p15:35
Termanaalterego, up for some.... SQUARE DANCIN'? YEEHAW :p15:35
alteregoAt the moment I'm trying to validate my satellite widget is rendering correctly.15:36
alteregoFor some reason it disagrees with maps on the N81015:36
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Termanaalterego, is this the thing you said you were planning to sell? How do you intend to also sell it on the N810?15:37
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alteregoI don't.15:37
alteregoIt doesn't work on the N81015:37
alteregoI'm using the N810 built in "Maps" application to see if the satellite position rendering aligns.15:38
alteregoIt doesn't, so I think I might be doing something wrong.15:38
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alteregoIT's pretty simple geometry.15:41
alteregoDon't know why I keep screwing it up ^.615:41
alteregoInteresting, it seems mirrored, which might mean my elevation is reversed.15:46
* MohammadAG stabs Termana with a candle15:46
MohammadAGor you're underground15:46
TermanaMohammadAG, as long as it didn't go out - I still get a girlfriend!....15:49
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* alterego is starting to think that the bug is in the Maemo 4 Maps application ..16:01
alteregoNo way to validate though :/16:02
tzafrirhmm... I ended up just rsyncing the files over to my system16:02
SpeedEvilalterego: google maps16:03
nidOalterego - no way to compare it on the n900 itself?16:03
alteregoGoogle maps can't ply the constellation :P16:03
alterego~display ..16:03
SpeedEvilalterego: it can give you lat/lon16:04
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alteregoIt's just my display dial that I'm trying to validate.16:04
alteregoI need to know if my azimuth/elevation conversion is working and display the satellites relative position correctly.16:04
alteregoAnyhow, minor issue I can resolve next week when I borrow my dads Garmin :)16:05
SpeedEvilthere was an app that had a az/el16:05
SpeedEvilmaetracks or something16:05
alteregoThe lib location test app does actually.16:05
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lcuk_ideaalterego, with all your gps looking, have you seen cloudgps?16:06
SpeedEvilIt just shows signal strengths16:06
SpeedEvilnot alt/az16:06
lcuk_ideaone of the most fantasticly super slick apps on maemo :)16:06
alteregoHrm, oh yeah.16:06
alteregolcuk_idea: I have heard about it yeah.16:06
alteregoHe uses OpenGL to render a map.16:06
lcuk_ideayes :) very nicely done, shows how a well tuned app can make optimal use of the resources :)16:07
javispedroit cheats tho :)16:07
alteregoIf it works it's not cheating ..16:08
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lcuk_idea"A wise man once said that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"16:09
SpeedEvilWas it Penn or Teller?16:09
lcuk_ideajavispedro, why do you suggest it cheats?16:09
alteregoBecause he's one task in life is to discount the hard work of others' :P16:10
alterego~his ..16:10
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alteregolcuk_idea: have you seen my latest screenshots?16:11
alteregoI'm going to be getting a few people to help test the app next week and give me feedback.16:11
lcuk_ideano alterego i have been getting aquanted with this meego ideapad16:11
* lcuk_idea has learnt to write on a chalk board16:12
alteregoThat's my refined status view.16:12
javispedrolcuk_idea: because it doesn't use xrandr to rotate, like harmattan :)16:13
alteregoWhat has that got to do with anything?16:14
lcuk_ideajavispedro, it uses the power of awesomeness tho16:14
lcuk_ideathe fade in/out transition on the buttons themselves is nifty and a really clean way to do it16:14
* lcuk_idea spent quite some time talking with damion at the conf16:15
GAN900Good riddance to bad rubish.16:15
GAN900The Netbook UX is just broken.16:15
lcuk_ideawell what have you replaced it with16:15
alteregoubuntu I bet :P16:15
alteregoOr windows 7! :D16:16
* lcuk_idea wants to put handset image on it16:16
GAN900Ubuntu for now.16:16
* lcuk_idea sighs16:16
GAN900Using the Mini 9 more than the Lenovo, though.16:16
RST38hNetbook = Laptop16:16
RST38hSo, netbooks do not require separate UI16:17
alteregoGAN900: I'll swap you another Mini9 for your Lenovo :)16:17
GAN900alterego, no.16:17
GAN900I'd love to swap the two of them for a MacBook Air.16:17
RST38hThe only reason why everyone does Meego on netbooks is because Moblin has been specifically developed for them and on them16:17
alteregoGAN900: awful16:17
alteregoAnd what's wrong with the Mini 9?16:18
GAN900Non-crap trackpad, keyboard and screen.16:18
GAN900Not a lot, bit constrained in all senses, though.16:18
alteregoHave you used an Air?16:18
RST38hGAN: And you call it functional?16:18
alteregoI dunno, they look sleek, like all Crapple products do, but the price tag is just as pathetically high.16:19
GAN900RST38h, I don't use laptops as my primary computing device16:19
RST38hAh ok16:19
GAN900I have Mac Pro for that16:19
* RST38h uses a subnotebook as his primary computing device, and the Air would not fit the requirements16:19
lcuk_ideaGAN900, then why did you not keep meego on it - with meego base, it should be possible to switch uxes as they come out16:19
lcuk_ideaor that was my impression :P16:19
alteregoDespite what "they" say GAN900 these products wont help you find a girlfriend ;)16:19
GAN900alterego, yeah, but everything else in that size range uses crap screens, crap trackpads and crap keyboards.16:20
RST38halterego: a boyfriend, on the other hand...16:20
alteregoRST38h: sounds like you're interested ;)16:20
GAN900lcuk_idea, because I don't have that much patience.16:20
GAN900alterego, says you.16:20
RST38halterego: as an armchair antropologist, yes, by all means =)16:21
GAN900Actually, Apple has lost all of its fashion appeal over here.16:21
GAN900Every idiot with $100 has an iPhone.16:21
lcuk_ideaGAN900, you have many computers running various things, this one just added to that collection16:22
alteregoGAN900: and you're saying they've lost their fashion appeal?16:22
GAN900alterego, nobody's impressed by an Apple logo at the coffee shop anymore.16:22
RST38hGAN: So, what is the next big fashion gadget then?16:22
GAN900Good question16:23
GAN900The iPhone's still it from a buyer's perspective16:23
javispedrodon't make me laugh :)16:23
GAN900But nobody else actually cares if you have one.16:23
RST38hThen Apple has not lost its appeal16:23
RST38hFashion is not always the same as Prestige =)16:24
GAN900Right, apologies for the N900-keyboard imprecision. ;)16:24
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TermanaI'm sorry, I didn't realise we were a bunch of no brains buying gadgets because they were in fashion16:25
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RST38hHeh, KDE has got its own Tracker16:25
TermanaNow excuse me while I go drive my car the wrong way down a one way street16:25
javispedroRST38h: with exciting name!16:25
javispedroNepromuk iirc?16:25
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RST38hjavispedro: Nepomuk is related to Tracker afaik16:25
RST38hjavispedro: But check out Akonadi16:26
javispedroAkonadi is PIM-only16:26
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javispedrodoes what evolution-data-server does afaik16:26
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RST38hSo, it is not Akonadi replacing tracker, it is tracker wishing to replace akonadi16:26
RST38hBy indexing addresses and communications too16:27
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GAN900Spotlight's the only indexing service I've seen that works halfway OK.16:27
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GAN900Tracker is just comical.16:27
TermanaDarn it pressed the wrong button :p16:27
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RST38hjust having goals different from yours (and 99.99999% other people)16:28
RST38hBut in itself, Tracker is a wonderful academic project :)16:28
GAN900Perhaps we should get them grant money.16:28
RST38hOn a condition of staying away from certain personal communication devices (list included)?16:29
alteregotracker is designed to index everything ..16:29
alteregoSomething to do with the semantic web aswell I'd imagine.16:29
alteregoData clouds and stuff.16:29
derfIf you exclude 99.99999% of people, there's still like 600 people left.16:29
RST38hYes, it is trying to build ontologies of the indexed data afaik16:30
RST38hCloud stuff has nothing to do with it though16:30
RST38hAlso, people have been trying to build ontologies for at least 15 years now (probably more like 20-22),with very few practical results16:31
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RST38hderf: ...and 550 of them are Chinese.16:31
alteregoBut it's the foundations of the semantic web maaaan!16:31
RST38hSorry, wrong math,make it 150.16:32
javispedroprobably, because endusers are still to the set the net immediate benefit16:32
lcuk_ideaderf, what a cute observation :)16:32
javispedros/to the set/to see/16:32
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infobotjavispedro meant: probably, because endusers are still to see the net immediate benefit16:32
RST38hjavispedro: Well, rthe research proposals all look wonderful16:32
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RST38hjavispedro:Especially ones made to various national security related organizations16:32
alteregoI started a semantic project at my previous job, the management didn't understand the net benifit either.16:33
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alteregoThey couldn't understand why it'd be better than what they already had.16:33
alteregoI thought that point was quite clear though :/16:33
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derfI never knew what to do with those proposals.16:33
RST38hjavispedro: Usually go along the lines of "computers to automatically analyze collected intelligence information, looking for links connecting suspects, instantly giving you cohesive intelligence related to your query"16:34
derfOur company wanted to bid on them, but you could never tell what the sponsoring organization wanted you to actually _do_.16:34
loft306hey guys is there a default lock code for the N900?16:34
derfSo it was like, how the gekk do I write a proposal to that?16:34
RST38hjavispedro: Once you start actually doing it, things get mighty hairy though16:34
RST38hderf: But that is an advantage16:34
RST38hderf: They basically want you to TELL them what they want16:35
SpeedEvilRST38h: And use that cohesive intelligence to automatically dispatch a GPS-guided missile?16:35
derfTo a normal person, yes.16:35
derfBut not to me.16:35
alteregoRST38h: that's the exact proposal I had for Tyco!16:35
RST38hderf: So, you just turn on a bit of fantays and put together a proposal16:35
RST38halterego: Why would Tyco want this stuff, I do not know16:36
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derfWell the problem is that a) you have to promise to deliver something, b) it has to be better than your competitors promise, and c) you have to be able to claim success at the end.16:36
RST38hThere are two Tycos, one is into toys another into tires16:36
alteregoBecase Tyco develop software solutions that the gov't use.16:36
derfa) I was okay with. b) and c) are hard16:36
RST38hderf: Ok, let me start with b)16:36
alteregoI was a software engineer writing software for the intelligence services.16:36
RST38hderf: You avoid b) by carefully crafting your proposal to propose different thign from the competition16:36
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RST38hderf: And explain why different thing is better, as it does what other thigns do not do16:37
loft306yay found it....16:37
alteregoI thought it was a pretty good idea, some others' thought it was a really good idea, but it just didn't get the wind to sail unfortunately.16:37
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derfRST38h: That sounds like something you would do at a company actually invovled in the field who researches their competitors.16:37
RST38hderf: a) and c) are related, and you solve them by promising to deliver a proof-of-concept solution16:37
RST38hderf: and defining it really loosely16:38
derfAs opposed to one where they say, "Hey, this has been bouncing around my inbox for 3 months, but now it's due in 3 days, can you write something for it?"16:38
jogaloft306, what was it?16:38
derfOn a Friday.16:38
RST38halterego: a small demo always helps more than a dozen proposals btw ;)16:38
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alteregoRST38h: yes, something I learned that day ;)16:38
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loft306joga 2nd post16:39
derfRunning code trumps vast amounts of speculation.16:39
RST38halterego: And yes, people have been known to fake those demos (see Boeing and its JSF prototype aka "Monica")16:39
alteregoWell, I worked on the project a lot in my own spare time, was working really well. Then I got made redundant so the project is collecting dust on my backup drive.16:40
jogaloft306, ah, k. I just ran john the ripper to get the code, I bought mine used :)16:40
jogathe guy who sold it forgot to tell the code so it was faster than waiting for an answer in mail :)16:40
joganow I know his birthday heh16:40
loft306i expected a type in your comde window   bit16:41
loft306then i was like crap16:41
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Bash1oops wrong server16:44
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NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  :)
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, Figure out how to determine phone number via dbus! <--?17:04
NooBmonk3y<alterego> I think there's a dbus command.  :) - so i'ma hunting17:05
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MohammadAGalterego, I think there isn't one17:07
MohammadAGyou can get IMSI and IMEI, but not phone number17:07
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  i will sqeeze this n900 dry until i've found it lol17:07
NooBmonk3yif only dbus was properly documented ;)17:07
alteregoMaybe it's in the user contact card in the contact db?17:08
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NooBmonk3yfrals, almost sounded authoratitative then17:09
fralsor well, if the user puts it there, but its not stored anywhere by default17:09
* NooBmonk3y just made up a new word n liked it lol17:09
MohammadAGalterego, maybe, but I'm sure it's not accessible via dbus by default17:09
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  maybe healthcheck should grow arms and bitch slap the user until they tell me their number? ;)17:10
fralsas MohammadAG said you can get imei/imsi but not sim cards own number17:10
fralsbecause its not stored on sim by default17:10
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NooBmonk3yfrals, ..... does the n900 allow using the ussd commands etc to get your number?17:10
* NooBmonk3y hasnt kept up to date with that lot of stuff17:11
MohammadAGit's not a standard GSM code17:11
MohammadAGi.e my operator doesn't even use USSD for most of this stuff17:11
NooBmonk3yjust thinking , if the phone doesnt store it, can it be requested in any way from the operator?17:11
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NooBmonk3ylcuk, you are brainy, can you think of any other ways to get the local phone number?17:14
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* lcuk_idea reads scrollback17:15
lcuk_ideaNooBmonk3y, i asked myself, afaik you need a ussd code17:15
lcuk_ideabut it makes sense also to add a contact for yourself (for ICE purposes)17:15
NooBmonk3yhmmmmmm..... wonder if there is a generic list somewhere :)17:15
lcuk_ideai just have my number in there too17:16
MohammadAGlcuk_idea, there's no standard USSD code17:16
NooBmonk3yas i already know the network being used17:16
lcuk_ideacall mandy and ask her :P17:16
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG,  maybe not but i can cater for most :) - as i know the network17:16
NooBmonk3yso could list all known ussd codes per network17:16
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, that'd be racist for me17:16
NooBmonk3ylol lcuk , she is baking cakes ;)17:17
NooBmonk3yMohammadAG, ussd'ist17:17
lcuk_ideammmm bacon cake17:17
MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, focus on more health check related stuff :)17:17
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NooBmonk3yyes daddy17:18
MohammadAGlike, capture volume keys and camera key for a button test17:18
NooBmonk3yoh pooo, forgotten about button tests17:18
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MohammadAGNooBmonk3y, do a drop test17:20
MohammadAG"Drop the N900, if you see the message on the screen, it survived the drop"17:21
MohammadAG"If not..."17:21
SpeedEvilEmergency service response time test.17:22
SpeedEvilPlay a machine-gun and screams over 911.17:22
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lcuk_ideaSpeedEvil, you earnt your name with that quote17:27
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alteregoI wonder if I could use tracker to create waypoints from images taken with the N90017:43
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RST38halterego: only if it indexes gps data17:50
Venemo_N900alterego: if geotags are turned on, then maybe17:50
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RST38hwhich it probably does not at the moment17:50
alteregoI think it does actually.17:50
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alteregoI vaguely remember seeing it, but I might be wrong.17:50
* RST38h wonders if Maep author would consider adding photos found in the device to the map, automatically17:50
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RST38h"Symbian Foundation has now announced that its websites will shut down on December 17th. Source repositories will no longer be hosted online, and user-submitted content databases may be available later upon request."17:55
RST38hSomuch for "open-sourcing" Symbian.17:55
Venemo_N900this is lol17:56
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Venemo_N900seems that open sourcing didn't help them much anyway17:57
Venemo_N900but I thought that they'll leave it OSS17:57
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Corsacwell, you'll still be able to request a dvd17:57
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alteregoQuick download the source and fork!18:00
alteregoThen startup a new site called the Symbium Foiundation.18:00
alterego~Foundation ..18:00
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Venemo_N900alterego: honestly... what for?18:05
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Venemo_N900is Mathan ever on irc?18:13
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Venemo_N900how much of MicroB is open?18:19
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JaffaVenemo_N900: Mathan or Matan?18:25
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Venemo_N900Jaffa: dunno. I mean the guy who makes hacks for the hildon-desktop18:33
Venemo_N900Jaffa: maybe he's Matan?18:33
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MohammadAGand trolls18:36
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GAN900Matan loves trolling18:43
GAN900It's his favorite hobby.18:43
RST38hHe isn't very professional at it though18:44
GAN900And consistent18:44
MohammadAGhey Texrat18:46
Venemo_N900GAN900: lol :D18:47
b-man`hey Texrat, long time no see :)18:47
Venemo_N900so does he ever come to irc?18:47
MohammadAGVenemo_N900, thankfully18:47
b-man`once in a while18:47
MohammadAG<Venemo_N900> trolls?18:47
Texrathey guys18:47
MohammadAGI meant he hacks and trolls at the same time18:47
alteregoHey Texrat18:48
b-man`he should stick to hacking lol18:48
alteregoTexrat: long time no see ;)18:48
GAN900Texrat, you need to idle more. I had something funny to tell you yesterday, now I can't remember it.18:48
Texratsorry, I forget to also drop in here...18:48
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: I understand18:48
Texratfeh... I was busy all day yesterda18:48
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DocScrutinizeryeah, no fun in bashing good hackers that are poor at trolling18:54
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Venemo_N900~seen fcrochik19:15
infobotfcrochik <> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 6d 3h 2m 13s ago, saying: 'ok...something "funny".... on the ideapad "sudo zypper install rpm-build" crashes with segmentation fault when downloading elfutils-lib... if I install it by itself and then the rest it works... it is just my luck these days!'.19:15
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: I suggest you include some BOLD size=4 editing on the "new package is fixed" part. Even better: *please* include a pointer to a up-to-date tested_to_work idiot hardened installation instruction19:19
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lardmanafternoon all19:19
lardmanhey chaps19:20
lardmanhi Texrat, long time no see19:21
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: also an explanation about zhings we are interested in, and things to better take elsewhere (like fcam incompatibilities) should go to such a generic installation instruction19:21
pupnikend ... of... 2010... >_<19:21
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DocScrutinizerpupnik: carpe diem19:22
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Venemo_N900pupnik: what's the problem with that?19:23
lardmanhave to remember the new year when writing cheques19:23
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DocScrutinizerlast party I tried to kickoff was 20.02. 2002 20:02, alas I sucked on invitations. Maybe they change calendar to get >= 20 months/year, until 2020 ;-P19:25
RST38hmoo lardman19:26
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lardmanmoo RST38h19:27
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* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass19:27
infobotsomebody said moohoho was
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DocScrutinizeras those 20 months/y seem unlikely, maybe I should go for 2020 week 20, +20h20m19:31
DocScrutinizeror UGT timestamp 20202020202019:32
lardmanand start a rumour that this is the new end of the world as predicted by a recently discovered Mayan thread calendar?19:33
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* DocScrutinizer wonders how to fight his SantaClaus-trophoby19:34
pupnikwrite visualization effects for christmas19:34
* lardman hates trying to find bad data so he can show examples of how to process it19:36
SpeedEvilI know of a source of 180GB of xml.19:36
DocScrutinizereeeerrrr? o.O??19:36
SpeedEvilWould that be of use?19:36
Venemo_N900lol SpeedEvil19:36
kerioSpeedEvil: OSM?19:37
DocScrutinizerprocessing is fecking easy: rm -rf19:37
Venemo_N900hehe DocScrutinizer19:37
DocScrutinizerwhat else could you possibly do with bad data19:38
keriobut... it's our Planet!19:38
SpeedEvilFix it.19:38
SpeedEvilAuto-determine the degree of badness.19:38
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SpeedEvilFind out who is to blame.19:38
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DocScrutinizeractually there's no way to fix bad data, you can only replace it by better data19:39
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SpeedEvilSure there is.19:39
DocScrutinizerknowledge about degree of badness is useless19:40
SpeedEvilTaking the above as an example.19:40
SpeedEvilIf you have higway:primary as a key - it's certainly a typo for highway:primary19:40
DocScrutinizerthe above is an extemely poor example. Not the data but the object to deliver the data is bad19:41
SpeedEvilAnd degree of badness per unit area can be a useful pointer as to places that need fixed19:41
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: learn to abstract: that's not bad data, that's bad formatting19:42
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lardmannah, bad thermal image data is what I need19:42
lardmanbut not so bad that it can't be cleaned up, just on the cusp19:42
lardmanall good fun19:43
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* SpeedEvil passes lardman a pile of old faxes.19:43
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: it's bad data. The data is entered by the users - and they typoed it.19:44
DocScrutinizerthen it's data about user state of mind19:44
DocScrutinizerand actually poor data19:44
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DocScrutinizerwell, maybe my def of data and distinction to info is flawed19:45
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DocScrutinizermaybe correct def of data is "formated info"19:46
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* lardman decides to brave the icy footpaths and get some food19:46
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* DocScrutinizer ponders a second latte M.19:46
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alteregodata doesn't have to be formatted :)19:48
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DocScrutinizerno, data has a auto-restart for his positron matrix19:49
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alteregoWondering whether to use flat file or database to store my tracklogs ...19:51
SpeedEvilIt would be nice (for me) to be able to upload to
sjkalterego, what maemo applications are you developing?19:52
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SpeedEvilHowever, I'd like to be able to specify a few circles in the world to punch out of the tracklogs before upload.19:53
alteregoSpeedEvil: they use GPX right?19:53
alteregoMy app exports that fine.19:54
alteregoI'm talking about native format, :)19:54
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SpeedEvilI mean auto-upload.19:54
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SpeedEvilflat files have big plusses.19:55
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Venemo_N900what is a flat file?19:55
alteregoSpeedEvil: hrm, yeah, I've been thinking about linking with web services.19:55
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alteregoI've got a plugin interface, so people can add that sort of functionailty :)19:56
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Venemo_N900alterego: sounds nice19:57
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DocScrutinizer~dict lore19:57
infobotDictionary 'lore' (1 of 6): \Lore\, obs. imp. & p. p. of {Lose}. [See {Lose}.] Lost. [1913 Webster] Neither of them she found where she them lore. --Spenser. [1913 Webster].19:58
Corsachmhm I think I read someone here talking about using the n900 as a bluetooth gps device, is it possible?19:58
* DocScrutinizer smiles about esprit in startrek naming19:58
alteregoCorsac: my app does it ;)19:58
alteregoBut it's not released yet, I finished that feature last night :)19:58
Venemo_N900alterego: we will soon discover that your app also created the world as we know it :P19:59
Corsacalterego: oh.19:59
Corsacalterego: far from a release? :)19:59
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Venemo_N900Corsac: he hasn't decided yet whether to make it OSS or release for cash20:00
alteregoCorsac: planning for a week of testing. Then release.20:00
alteregoBut no it's not FOSS20:00
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Venemo_N900I suggested to him to release in Ovi for some cash20:01
alteregoNot Ovi, I'm gonna host it all myself.20:01
Venemo_N900and how much it's gonna cost?20:02
alteregoProbably about 3 euro20:02
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alteregoNormal rip off mobile prices :)20:03
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jacekowskialterego: 3 euro for something like that?20:14
jacekowskiesspecialy considering that all it has to do is accept rfcomm bluetooth connection and push gps data in nmea format20:15
Venemo_N900jacekowski: his app does more than that20:16
alteregoIT has master and slave mode actually :)20:17
alteregoBut yes, it's not just a bluetooth nmea provider.20:17
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Venemo_N900I'm still looking for an idea for my homework application20:22
alteregoAn application that does your homework?20:22
javispedroI already have an app that accepts BT and pushes NMEA20:22
javispedroIn fact I have an app that accepts BT and pushes Garmin protocol =)20:22
alteregojavispedro: have you got it to work yet? :P20:22
Venemo_N900an application that I write as my homework for the mobile linux applications course20:22
javispedroalterego: I made it :)20:22
javispedroso, ofc.20:23
alteregoYou were having problems with NMEA last I heard.20:23
alteregoUnless it was someone else.20:23
javispedroI was having some accuracy problems with the Garmin version -- track behaved crazily20:23
alteregoWhy haven't you released it then? Lots of people want it ..20:23
javispedrobut nRoute pinpointed my position on the map flawlessly20:24
javispedrobecause it's mostly trivial?20:24
javispedroi'm sure luke-jr has also done it20:24
* sjk pokes alterego20:25
alteregoTrivial for people that can program, so you don't think it's worthy of extras?20:25
javispedro nmea version, garmin pvt version20:25
alteregoNice packaging ...20:26
pupnik   The US has started seizing the domain names of various websites through ICANN - not because owners of these sites were convicted of anything, but merely because complaints have been filed against them.20:26
alteregoThat's like mass censorship ..20:26
javispedroalterego: is such a thing really wanted? by normal persons? :)20:27
alteregoOne of those steps to becoming a dictatorship.20:27
alteregojavispedro: yes, quite a few people have been asking for the functionality.20:27
alteregoLike Corsac just did ..20:28
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pupnikI'm waiting for the USA brain-drain20:29
pupnikEngineers, scientists, doctors packing their bags and leaving :)20:29
alteregoMeh, most of the clever people are in England anyway :P20:29
pupnikIt's already on.   18 month waiting lines at the US Consolute in London20:30
SpeedEvilDon't worry.20:30
SpeedEvilWe've got the precise same law that's just gone onto the statute books here.20:30
SpeedEvilTo allow government to randomly turn off websites.20:30
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ds3i wish mer lived on :(20:33
jaskasieg heil20:33
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alteregoWell, that's annoying.20:44
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* javispedro gives up20:48
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javispedrono way to troll on IRC with so many netsplits!20:49
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javispedrothe new bugzilla is splendid
MohammadAGindeed :)21:07
MohammadAGif only the 3 icons were centered21:07
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javispedroWONTFIXes look fully TRUE COLOR now!21:07
javispedro</joking>Naah, good job!21:08
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GAN900javispedro, weirds me out.21:11
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javispedrothe paint job is quite nice21:21
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MohammadAGtitan should update his kernel21:25
MohammadAGit needs more modules for USB hostmode21:25
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GAN900javispedro, header needs massaging, though.21:30
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GAN900I've got a 2.2 template around somewhere. . . .21:31
javispedrobackground colors seem to "disagree"21:31
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: maybe there should be some supplementary driver pkgs for powerkernel?21:35
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MohammadAGtalk about open source!
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DocScrutinizerwho gives a flying F***?21:35
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javispedroMohammadAG: I think I can hear RST38h laugther from here21:37
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DocScrutinizerWTF is up with internets ?21:37
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's freenode21:38
javispedroLOL at the image Engadget selected21:39
DocScrutinizer383 users, tzzzz21:39
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javispedro"Symbian Foundation: Things are developing nicely"21:39
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javispedroSo, Symbian officially disappears from the world of the living and all we get are cold silence and warm netsplits?21:41
javispedrothank god!21:41
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* DocScrutinizer shrugs on sybian at large21:42
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SpeedEvilIt does have a noise problem at high settings.21:43
kerioDocScrutinizer: sybian?21:43
kerioSpeedEvil: I C WHUT U DID THAR21:44
DocScrutinizerseems parts of Nokia are about to learn their lesson that FOSS doesn't mean you simply disclose the sources and reduce your own investment of manpower to 20% of the initial effort21:44
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javispedrothen open a bugzilla and mark everything as WONTFIX!21:44
* RST38h also thanks the Tentacled One,but warily21:44
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* MohammadAG waves goodbye to Symbian21:45
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RST38hYou do all understand that Nokia only offers Symbian based smartphones at the moment?21:46
DocScrutinizerkerio: yep sybian - my fav typo on that topic21:46
jacekowskihardest kinect game ever21:46
RST38hAnd so far has not disclosed any specific plans to release non-Symbian devices?21:46
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jacekowskiRST38h: they don't sell n900 anymore21:46
javispedrojacekowski: no surprises there =)21:47
RST38hn900 is effectively end-of-lifed afaik21:47
DocScrutinizerN900 has no more active development support from Nokia aiui21:47
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CableTwitchHeh, like it needs it from Nokia.21:48
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kerioit needs SPECS from nokia21:48
SpeedEvilN900 is still for sale from
javispedroit needs WORK from Nokia21:48
SpeedEvilbut with a 2 year warranty21:48
DocScrutinizerwaranty on what though?21:49
CableTwitchEverything but the USB port21:49
ArkenoiRST38h, well, they still do make and sell n900s?21:49
RST38hArkenoi: they still sellsome n900s, not sure if they are making them21:49
MohammadAGI saw 2104, and 2204 hardware revisions today21:49
DocScrutinizerI guess they'll make and sell as long as users buy21:49
javispedroprice is going down rapidly21:49
MohammadAGmine is a 210121:49
javispedroat least here21:49
MohammadAGthere were hardware refreshes apparently21:49
MohammadAGapparently, fcam-drivers fails on 2104 (not tested 2204 yet)21:50
DocScrutinizercna't be anything significant? (hw refreshes)21:50
RST38hwhere is the hardware revision?21:50
javispedrowell, drivers failing on one revision is significant I'd say21:51
* javispedro would have thought only mechanical fixes or the like21:51
DocScrutinizerMEGA significant21:51
* SpeedEvil ponders idly that latest revision hostmode 'just works.21:52
* javispedro laughs at the entire docstogo situation21:52
SpeedEvilMore logical would be to nuke the debug mode driver21:52
SpeedEvilLED driver21:52
jacekowskithat's disturbing21:52
jacekowskinormal website designed for iphones only21:52
MohammadAGRST38h, softupd --local & flasher -i && killall softupd21:52
RST38hjavispedro: what about dtg?21:53
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keriojacekowski: wut?21:53
* DocScrutinizer wonders if they designed out some of the "vulnerabilities" of their hw, as in "fuckup hostmode for good now", "change bootloader scheme to something that's solidly locked ootb" etc21:53
RST38hMohammad: Sounds pretty scary21:53
javispedroRST38h: read tmo? basically, they've been promising a paid version that is up to the feature level of the free version since forever21:53
MohammadAGalso, keyboard LEDs failed on a 2104 when kernel-power was installed21:53
javispedroRST38h: a dataviz employee periodically telling everyone "to wait a little bit" with extreme precision21:53
MohammadAGall lp2xxxx(whatever) LEDs failed21:53
MohammadAGthe battery had to be pulled out21:54
MohammadAGRST38h, -i is info21:54
javispedroMohammadAG: so you can also check it from host?21:54
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: ??? debug mode driver, LED driver?21:54
MohammadAGsoftupd is just to do it on device21:54
RST38hjavispedro: they do not have the free version afaik only paid one21:54
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: I meant - a logical low-risk rev would be to pull the debug mode LED driver21:54
javispedroRST38h, MohammadAG: flasher-3.5 on host also has "-i" mode21:54
MohammadAGjavispedro, I know :)21:55
MohammadAGflasher = flasher-3.521:55
MohammadAGbut compiled for ARM21:55
MohammadAGthat's why you can flash an N900 from an N90021:55
jacekowskiand there is revision on sticker21:55
jacekowskiunder battery21:55
MohammadAGor possibly an N8x0 from an N90021:55
javispedroMohammadAG: not exactly, I doubt the N900 one uses libusb ;)21:55
jacekowskithere isn;t21:55
javispedroMohammadAG: well, don't mind then :)21:55
MohammadAGjavispedro, I think it does, I got it to show device info from a friend's N90021:56
RST38hjavispedro: as far as I can tell, the only dtg that exists right now is the onein ovi21:56
RST38hjavispedro: $30, with some editing capabilities, no?21:56
javispedroRST38h: yes, they killed the better free one21:56
MohammadAGthough I had to click the enumerate button many times so I don't miss the hold "u" part21:56
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: as you seem to have contacts that own 2104, could you get a md5sum for LP5523.ko?21:56
javispedroRST38h: it had no edit features, but was Hildon based, so overall it was: way faster, better integrated with Maemo, and more featurefull.21:57
MohammadAG(or at least I remember it said something about the device)21:57
RST38hjavispedro: ah, and the ovi one is qt or what?21:57
javispedroRST38h: the paid one they believed the Qt hype and decided to rewrite21:57
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, same as mine21:57
javispedronet result is awful.21:58
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, it's the same kernel etc21:58
* javispedro actually paid $11 for it, so I guess he should get the pitchforks.21:58
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, two classmates got an N900, third one coming soon :P21:58
MohammadAG2104, 2204, not sure about the 3rd21:58
jacekowskii have 210121:59
RST38hjavispedro: is there a "solution" to make the original viewer only one work forever? =)21:59
MohammadAGjacekowski, same21:59
javispedroRST38h: I don't think it had any check, so if you still have the packages....21:59
javispedroin fact it was able to work alongside the Qt docstogo, but I think I erased it during the 1.2->1.3 reflash22:00
RST38hjavispedro: it only worked for 30 days22:00
jacekowskiRST38h: ?22:00
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: could you check the diffs of lp5523.ko drivers for e.g pr1.0 and current version? To see if the current version is a modified one which we are missing the sources22:00
javispedroRST38h: maybe, don't exactly remember22:00
jacekowskiRST38h: there is a solution22:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, hmm, I'll check tomorrow (he's offline atm)22:01
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: thanks a lot :-)22:01
MohammadAGdon't thank me, thank the openssh-server I have on his device :)22:01
javispedrothat's evil22:01
DocScrutinizerI'm serously concerned Nokia actually designed out some expensive and some 'vulnerable' chips22:02
MohammadAGjavispedro, he knows :P22:02
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* MohammadAG loves his 2101 :)22:03
DocScrutinizerprobably they noticed bq24150 makes bme basically obsolete, so they decided to get a chip that *needs* bme, and also might not support vboost anymore :-/22:03
RST38hDoc: like hardware audio filter? :)22:03
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that would be too evil also.22:03
javispedroI prefer to assume incompetence.22:03
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, h-e-n works on his device22:03
DocScrutinizerpffffoooo even22:04
ynaveI've some problem with Conversations applications, all sms are marke as not sended, but my contact receive it, sms list isn't updated, etc..  is there a way to clean sms history ?22:04
GAN900javispedro, especially in Nokia's case. . . .22:04
ynaveall other app running good22:04
javispedroGAN900: hehe22:04
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: you could try to get a full boot dmesg, and compare22:05
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MohammadAGsysklogd + reboot should do that22:05
MohammadAGOff topic, should I upload mplayer with libdvd support to the repos?22:05
jacekowskinot really22:05
javispedroassuming that the changes are minor, one guess there would be a place in the board.c file where the id gets fetched and something is decided upon that22:05
jacekowskiideally if you could get to serial port22:05
MohammadAGsame package name22:06
MohammadAGdon't go on, I don't have a cable22:06
javispedroMohammadAG: contact maintainer and tell him to enable libdvd (or warn him about what you're going to do)22:06
DocScrutinizerwell, folks. I think I should get a life...22:07
ynavenobody know how to clear  Conversation  messages ?22:07
jacekowskiynave: flash it22:07
ynaveI can"t22:07
ynavedon't have usb cable :(22:07
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javispedrocya DocScrutinizer22:07
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MohammadAGynave, clear all messages?22:08
ynavedoing it by menu application don't work...22:08
DocScrutinizernuke some *.db?22:09
ynaveI receive new messages  but they are show in the list..22:09
MohammadAGrm -rf /home/user/.rtcom-eventlogger (CLEARS ALL CONVERSATIONS!)22:09
ynavewhere are thos db ?22:09
DocScrutinizerjust to throw some noise to chan on leaving22:09
ynaveMohammadAG:  thanks :)22:09
MohammadAGdo it as user22:09
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, heh, was just checking directories22:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: maybe mv instead rm?22:09
MohammadAGynave, hmm, that might clear phone logs too22:09
ynavenot a problem22:10
DocScrutinizer( a suggestion :-P)22:10
MohammadAGalso, killall -9 rtcom-messaging-ui22:10
MohammadAGyes, the -9 is needed :/22:10
javispedrotalks about a system_rev value22:10
ynaveI tried do restart the phone22:10
ynavebut nothing better22:11
javispedrocamera voltages are setup differently depending on "system_rev"22:11
ynaveremove battery during some seconds etc..22:11
MohammadAGynave, rming them should remove them, for sure22:11
MohammadAGjust kill the messaging UI afterwards22:11
javispedroand system_rev comes from bootloader22:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, interesting22:11
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: move! not remove!22:12
MohammadAGshould fcam devs be notified?22:12
javispedrodunno if fcam bypasses this22:12
DocScrutinizeryou can rm any time later, if you found it didn't nuke your phone22:12
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ynaveMohammadAG: I've mv, reboot the phone... I'm trying ..22:13
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MohammadAGjavispedro, fcam shows device or resource busy on /dev/video022:14
MohammadAGStock camera shows Operation Failed22:14
javispedrois this a bug?22:14
MohammadAG(with fcam-drivers installed)22:14
javispedroI mean, "stock" app from where?22:14
javispedrowell, EBUSY should be easy enough to debug even with plain printks ;)22:15
MohammadAGsorry, freenode lag sucks22:15
ynaveMohammadAG:  seems to be good,  many message listed but know when I send it's ok22:15
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ynaveMohammadAG:  thanks :)22:16
MohammadAGyw :)22:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, how do I read system_rev?22:16
javispedrofrom user space? nfi22:16
javispedroshould be in atags22:17
* MohammadAG strings /dev/mtd022:17
javispedrothose should be readable from uboot also afaiu22:17
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DocScrutinizer  MEH22:17
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yeah, nothing of interest save for the cam bit22:18
javispedrowait a bit22:18
javispedrothe cam bit is not there22:18
DocScrutinizerI wonder how power kernel kbd LEDs can break on 2104 though22:18
DocScrutinizeryep, I'm missing the "referenced in"22:18
DocScrutinizermxr barfs up again22:19
javispedroprobably mxr not parsing macros22:19
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MohammadAGit breaks when it's installed22:19
DocScrutinizerneed to "grep"22:19
MohammadAGif you remove the battery, it works again22:19
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MohammadAGI tried removing the lp something module and adding it again, only the vibra was registered in dmesg22:19
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javispedronote that this might be all pre-release to manufacturing22:21
javispedroI mean, who knows.22:21
DocScrutinizerwhere is that anyway?22:22
MohammadAGinteresting crap btw:22:22
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# strings /dev/mtd0 | grep fuck*22:22
MohammadAGerror secondary config block too; something is really fucked up22:22
MohammadAGNokia-N900:~# strings /dev/mtd0 | grep USB\ host22:22
MohammadAGNo USB host detected22:22
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MohammadAGUSB host mode22:22
javispedro"No USB host detected" can be very well be just a log message from nolo :)22:23
MohammadAGstrings your /dev/mtd0, it has shit about host mode22:23
javispedro(aka no PC detected to get firmware from)22:23
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DocScrutinizer#251 HAHA22:24
SpeedEvilThe actual system rev numbers are all under 2000 that are referred to22:24
MohammadAGjavispedro, no, it has two USB related messages, one about hosts, and one about USB host mode22:24
javispedroa kmod to print system_rev would be trivial, if noone finds other way to get it22:24
MohammadAGcould be related to cal-tool's --usb-host or whatever command22:24
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i reported that ages ago22:24
jacekowskiMohammadAG: it was present in nolo long time ago22:24
MohammadAGjacekowski, I know (cal-tool)22:24
MohammadAGI don't know if you mentioned NOLO22:24
SpeedEvilNokia-N900-02-8:~# cat /proc/cpuinfo22:25
SpeedEvilRevision: 210122:25
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, meh, testing builds22:25
jacekowskii did22:25
MohammadAGjacekowski, k :)22:25
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MohammadAGSpeedEvil, is your serial all 0s?22:26
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: new_hw_audio means the amp etc isn't using dedicated a regulator which needs to get enabled prior to audio-out22:26
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javispedroSpeedEvil is completely right, system_rev is printed by /proc/cpuinfo ( )22:27
jacekowskiMohammadAG: hmm, but now as you reminded me about it22:27
javispedroso there you have, same value as what flasher -i gives I guess.22:27
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i just had an idea22:27
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DocScrutinizereverybody seems to have serial=00000000000022:28
jacekowskiMohammadAG: i can modify nolo to make it not take that branch and go way where host is detected and see what happens22:28
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: funny idea22:29
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javispedromaybe a relic from n8x022:29
DocScrutinizer(seems there's a conspiration to tie me to that friggin computer, esp when I plan to get dinner)22:30
javispedrothere is.22:30
jacekowskihow many times i said that n900 nolo isn't anywhere close to n8x0 nolo?22:30
jacekowskimore like 4222:30
* DocScrutinizer remarks there are at least 3 USB controllers in N90022:31
DocScrutinizerat least one of them a dedicated hostmode-only22:31
jacekowskii have to make use of that jig at some point22:31
jacekowskibut it looks like i'll have to just get rid of everything inside22:32
DocScrutinizerhonetly, investigating how TF powerkernel can break at controlling LP5523 (kbd LEDs) on newer hw revisions is a top priority thing22:34
jacekowskii don't have new hw revision22:34
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javispedroexactly. you'd first need to get such a revision. from the on start applying the realted powerkernel patches one by one22:34
javispedro*then on22:35
MohammadAGnot a very useful post, but clearly, my friend's device isn't the only one22:36
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jacekowskiwell, try talking directly via i2c to it22:36
jacekowskiand see what happens22:36
* javispedro is hungry and unlike DocScrutinizer ( ;) ) he will leave for good 22:36
jacekowskiand then if that's working we know it's kernel that's broken22:36
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MohammadAGmaybe it's matan's patches...22:37
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jacekowskibtw. i fixed my car22:38
jacekowskiand i finally have properly working heating22:39
jacekowskiand engine have correct temperature22:39
MohammadAGoverclocked the device? I keed i keed22:39
MohammadAGanyways, kernel-power has two lp related patches22:39
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: this sounds like fsckng old fcam borkage of indicator light once more. fcam occupies the LP5523 sysnodes for directly messing with ind-LED, and so mce gets "EAGAIN" or sth and segfaults22:39
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, there are NO sysnodes, even after a reboot22:39
MohammadAGand fcam doesn't even work on his device :P22:40
jacekowskihmm, segfaulting after EAGAIN is wrong22:40
DocScrutinizeruhuh, where's that documented?22:40
jacekowskiMohammadAG: so driver is not registering at all?22:40
MohammadAGjacekowski, yes, he only had twl4030 registered new vibra or something22:40
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: that thread you linked above, is a bit thin22:41
MohammadAGRegistered led device: twl4030:vibrator22:41
MohammadAGthat's the only register he had in dmesg22:41
DocScrutinizerhm, LP5523 chip is directly powered from battery. If it locks up for whatever reason, you actually need to remove bat22:42
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DocScrutinizeranything starting from NOLO over uBoot to powerkernel could mess with LP5523 and make it freeze22:43
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jacekowskiwell, question is it frozen22:43
jacekowskior driver is broken22:43
MohammadAGor again, it might be matan's lp5523 patches22:44
DocScrutinizereven a different driver for another chip on same I2C bus could accidentally access LP552322:44
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DocScrutinizerlp5523 patches? W*T*F?22:44
MohammadAGthere are two patches for lp5523 on kernel-power22:44
DocScrutinizerI honestly wonder what matan has to patch on lp5523 driver (except maybe the idiotic limitations of the original one)22:46
MohammadAGhe creates another sysnode, dbrightness, which can be written to without worrying about mce22:46
DocScrutinizerwhat a BS22:47
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DocScrutinizerwho reviewed and signed off this?22:48
MohammadAGtitan probably22:49
DocScrutinizerMEH, huge alert and nothing serious actually.22:49
DocScrutinizerpoor borked useless concept, obviously kicking LP5523 balls. For no good reason. I don't see why we need this, and I don't think *this* is a top priority issue. Titan should keep out that nonsense out of power kernel22:51
MohammadAGMatan is a project admin, good luck22:52
DocScrutinizerseems we have to go back to own kernel for h-e-n22:52
DocScrutinizermaintenance and QA for powerkernel is sub-par even for experimental22:53
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DocScrutinizerI still completely fail to get the rationale behind dbrightness22:55
ShadowJKFrom what I've heard before, I'd assume using dbrightness makes the driver ignore hte usual brightness settings22:55
ShadowJKso the light-sensor based brightness change is inhibited22:56
DocScrutinizerI can fuzz around with brightness as I like, and never bothered about mce other than to maybe stop it so it won't revert my settings there22:56
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DocScrutinizerOMFG what a borked concept22:56
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DocScrutinizermeh, cya22:59
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luke-jr__DocScrutinizer: It could be worse23:06
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luke-jr__DocScrutinizer: they could have instead modified the light sensor driver to allow them to spoof values there to control it indirectly23:07
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr__: yeah, probably. Depending on what exactly they planned to do (I'm still not getting it)23:15
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DocScrutinizerluke-jr__: or somebody could have had a look at the output of head -n 14 /etc/mce/mce.ini23:16
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*** timeless is now known as timeless_mbp23:21  :-D23:21
ZogGDocScrutinizer, did you miss me dude?23:23
ZogGMohammadAG, hey23:23
DocScrutinizerZogG: you think I did?23:24
DocScrutinizer-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 30772 2010-05-11 14:56 libfilter-brightness-simple.so23:25
ZogGDocScrutinizer sure you did23:26
* ZogG hugs DocScrutinizer 23:26
ZogGwhere have you lost your 5123:26
DocScrutinizerZogG: it's my alter ego23:26
DocScrutinizerlook, it'sover there23:27
ZogGDocScrutinizer51, i think DocScrutinizer is the fake one and is trying to get all your glorry23:28
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Venemo_N900guys, what the hell does this mean?
ZogGRST38h, =(23:45
ZogGnoone likes me and misses me23:45
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