IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-01-11

halleyJust not with any dev discounts, apparently.00:00
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derfAnyway... I suspected something along those lines until I was recently in Connecticut with a friend who has a Tom-Tom (connected to some car-mounted GPS unit, I don't know which).00:00
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Solarionok, with dev discount, how about that.  :)00:01
derfAnd I'm sitting there spending several minutes waiting for it to acquire, even though I'm 15 feet from where it last had a lock, and he just turns it on and is ready to go.00:01
skiburhello?00:01
Solarionnokiausa won't let me put one in my shopping cart.  :(00:01
derf(again, with my own el cheapo bluetooth unit... I don't have an N810)00:02
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halleyThe acquisition time is 45 seconds on each locked satellite, to read its ephemeris orbit data; you need 4 sats to lock your position, some apps wait for 5.00:02
halleyThe 45sec is dictated by the GPS protocol, not the terra device.00:03
derfSure... if it took 45 seconds, that'd be one thing.00:03
derfLong, but nothing more than a minor annoyance.00:03
elbderf: if you're waiting several minutes when you're only 15' from the last lock, that is indeed a poor implementation00:04
halleyIf they're not in view, you can't start the process.  Sometimes a sat goes OUT of view before you get your 5.00:04
derfWhen it takes 2-5 minutes or more, that's something else.00:04
Solarionso, any hints on how to buy an n810 with dev code in the USA?  The salesmonkey I talked to said it required choosing a carrier (becase the n810 requires a SIM card in order to operate)00:04
elbderf: probably a software problem ... perhaps it expects you to *tell* it what hte last position is00:04
derfelb: I suspect a large part of it comes down to really shitty firmware.00:04
fysaSolarion: it doesn't even have a SIM slot..00:04
fysait's wifi only.00:04
elbhalley: 3 satellites will give you a 2-D fix, many old GPS units could only receive 3 signals00:04
fysa(and tethers via bluetooth)00:04
Solarionfysa: yeah, well she'd have none of that00:05
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derfhalley: They're in view. I can see the signal strength bouncing up and down in maemo-mapper.00:05
fysaprint the Nokia spec sheet and bring it back in? ;)00:05
Solarionfysa: I can't buy it on nokiausa because I have to select a carrier.00:05
fysaah00:05
Solarionfysa: bring?  It was phone.00:05
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Solarionshe even (supposedly) looked it up!00:05
halleyelb, true, but uncommon now.00:06
derfI'd consider paying real money for a bluetooth GPS with very good firmware, even for use with the N810.00:06
derfBut I can't find any reliable information on things like that.00:06
elbhalley: I only mention this because my receiver will give me a fix with 3 signals, without altitude :-)00:06
halleyThe n810's gps antenna is near the snoring led, and it's not very sensitive.00:06
derfelb: Right, because most of the time you don't need altitude.00:06
elbderf: if it's having to start over from *scratch*, there's more information it has to gather -- and that will take several minutes00:06
elbagain, that's part of the GPS protocol00:07
rm_youin Japan, cell phones do have GPS00:07
rm_youall of them.00:07
derfelb: I said, it's 15 feet from the last time I had it turned on.00:07
halleyI can lock with my Garmin at 36000ft in about 48sec, but couldn't get 4 sats on the n810.00:07
rm_youit's part of the spec or something >_>00:07
elbI know at least some of them do00:07
elbderf: that doesn't mean it _knows_ that00:07
derfIt shouldn't be having to start from scratch.00:07
halleyderf, it doesn't care how far you were last locked.00:07
elbmy GPS has a way to short circuit that search if you know approximately where you are00:07
rm_youI would like to see some accurate specs on the n810 builtin gps... my bluetooth one will lock in under 30 seconds from a cold start, and under 15 from not00:08
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derfMine has one button: power.00:08
elbyou can find your position on a built-in map and say "I'm here", and it'll then lock in 45s or so, even if (for example) you're in Russia and your last lock was in Indiana ;-)00:08
halleyIf it stores ephemeris, and that ephemeris doesn't need updating, yes, it can be shortcut by not seeking sat22 when it's below the horizon.00:08
derfAnd the only visible output is one LED.00:08
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elbhalley: actually, it does -- if your last lock was close by, and not long ago, it'll fix itself quite a bit more quickly than if it has no idea where to begin00:08
elbis 22 WAAS ?00:09
rm_youI have *three* leds! :P lol00:09
derfWell, it is a tri-color LED.00:09
halleyI picked a number at random.  Sat22, Sat4, whatever.00:09
rm_youheh00:09
elbahh, I see00:09
derfIt may be three separate LEDs all in the same package.00:09
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rm_youThis is what I have: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E1685870200300:10
elbwith my GPS, if I'm far from my previous location, getting the first lock takes a LONG time (say, 2-3 minutes), and the rest fall in almost immediately after that (presumably because it provided enough information)00:10
|tbb|derf thats what i think00:10
elbif I tell it where I am to within a few hundred miles, the lock is the same as if it hasn't been on for a day or so without moving00:10
derfAnyway... I want something small, bluetooth, and that doesn't suck.00:11
elbif it was on within the past 1-2 hours, it locks in about 5 seconds00:11
derfI'm willing to pay money for it.00:11
derfWhy is this so hard?00:11
rm_youderf: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16858702003 is *great*00:11
halleyelb, it likely decides from the first lock if the other sats' ephemeris is stale.00:11
elbhalley: that's my assumption00:11
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elbbut it has to wait for the whole signal to come in00:11
elband since that information is very low bitrate ... it takes a while :-)00:11
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rm_youi got it to lock in under 45 seconds *on an airplane*00:12
elbparticularly if the signal is less than spectacular00:12
rm_youwhich was probably bad, actually, since they say no wireless stuff >_>00:12
elbrm_you: then it was broken00:12
halleyYes, Garmins or Magellans are good about having ephemeris *predictions* too, but that's not likely in little embedded gps.00:12
derfrm_you: How big is that? It's hard to tell from the picture.00:12
rm_youerr00:12
elbwell, it might just be Really Good, but I find that unlikely00:12
derfActually, airplanes are usually pretty easy if you can hold it close to the window.00:12
GeneralAntillesrm_you, GPS isn't a problem.00:12
elbmost GPS units are incapable of fixing their position *accurately* above a few hundred MPH00:12
derfGood visbility.00:12
rm_youit said i was going 300mph00:13
rm_youand it showed me damn accurately00:13
elbwas it a tiny plane?00:13
rm_you774700:13
rm_you*74700:13
derfOh, well my el cheapo unit has always worked pretty well on an airplane.00:13
elbmost commercial jets fly quite a bit faster than 300mph00:13
rm_youwe were landing00:13
GeneralAntillesMy i-blue 737 locked in about 35 seconds doing ~500-ish in a 757.00:13
CrashandDiehey anyone a pidgin user here for the MSN IM client ?00:13
elb300mph must be within its capability, then00:13
fysa..00:13
derfIt was maybe a hundred meters off when we landed.00:13
fysajust shut it00:13
derfBut once we slowed down under 100 mph it fixed it.00:14
derfOn my last trip, I mean.00:14
elbderf: yeah, that's typical for most GPS units00:14
elbit'll get a fix, it just can't be very accurate00:14
elbbecause it's not fast enough00:14
derfI'm okay with being 100 meters off when going 500 mph.00:14
CrashandDiedoes anyone know if pidgin supports the nokia webcam ?00:14
rm_youit was like, a straight line into the runway :) which was pretty cool, actually00:14
fysanope00:14
elbmany will say they can't *get* a fix, becaus etheir 95% zone is simply too large00:14
fysaAMSN does00:14
rm_youit may have been a little bit off, i suppose00:14
fysaand Gizmo..00:14
CrashandDiehmm00:14
CrashandDieyeah but gizmo doesn't do msn00:15
fysathen get AMSN00:15
CrashandDiehmm00:15
elbI don't think my GPS is capable of reporting a 95% fix of larger than 150'00:15
elbI've certainly never seen one00:15
fysahttp://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n800/00:15
fysahttp://www.amsn-project.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=365900:15
KaKaRoTohttp://kakaroto.homelinux.net/~kakaroto/n810/ for chinook00:15
derfrm_you: You didn't answer my question of how big it was.00:15
elbanyway, like I said, I'm interested to see the n810 GPS :-)00:16
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fysahey hey, kakarota.  thanks for the port.00:16
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KaKaRoTofysa, you're welcome :)00:16
rm_youderf: dont have a ruler handy, but... if i set it on the numpad on my keyboard, it takes up from the 8 to the corner of the enter key00:16
rm_youderf: a little less than, actually, but pretty close00:16
rm_youlike, covering the 8,9,5,6,2,3,part of the 0, ./del, +, enter00:17
rm_youi wish i had a ruler :(00:17
rm_youpffft00:17
rm_youthe dimensions are on the site00:18
rm_you2.75" by 1.86" by .75"00:18
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derfOh, hey, I dind't scroll past all the useless reviews.00:19
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rm_youlol00:19
rm_youclick on the specs tab00:19
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derfI did, I _also_ went to the manufacturer's page, where it is $6 cheaper.00:19
rm_youactually, those reviews are what made me buy it... it was cheap, and the reviews said it worked with maemoMap00:19
rm_youheh00:19
derfrm_you: That's how I bought my last one.00:19
keesjI , I think I f*cked up my n810 ... http://paste-it.net/5685/raw/00:20
derfAnd they were accurate. It _was_ cheap, and it _did_ work... eventually. Usually.00:20
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rm_youlol00:22
rm_youi love this thing. i always get a lock, and it's always quick and accurate00:22
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rm_youand the battery lasts forever :) and i have a usb cable with me to charge it whenever00:22
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rm_youi just kinda walk up to people's computers and plug it in, and they're like... what? :P00:23
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fysan810 charges off USB?00:24
elbno00:24
fysaor am I missing something?00:25
elbthat bluetooth gps does00:25
fysaahh00:25
F463D9there are usb power adapters that are supposed to work for the n81000:25
fysathat have a USB cable with a nokia tip? ;)00:25
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F463D9http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000QJ6TNC/ref=wl_it_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=IJK5RX3T9KGHR&colid=36EF9MSPC8HKE00:26
halleyYeah, I'm a bit annoyed at the recharge plug myself.00:28
halleyI don't need yet another wall wart.00:28
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Spakman_bye00:29
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rm_youyeah i really wish they had just done USB charging too :(00:29
rm_youi was tempted to do the solder thing that supposedly makes it work, but I'm not sure what effect that would have on usb devices that I want to plug in when i get host mode working :P00:30
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rm_youso, i shall ask again today... anyone know how to get the GtkWidget "HildonControlbar" to function inside a GtkMenu?00:33
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derfI just bought a $15 cable at Circuit City.00:34
rm_youalternatively, is that the wrong approach to duplicate the visual style of the builtin nokia Brightness app / Volume app?00:34
derfUSB to Nokia 2mm power connector.00:34
derfNokia sells one, too, but it's like $35.00:34
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rm_youwhat is the circuitcity cable called?00:35
rm_youi will buy one right now if it's $15 lol00:35
derfYeah, that's what I said.00:35
derfHold on, looking it up.00:35
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derfhttp://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Kensington-USB-Power-Tips-for-Nokia-Mobile-Phones-24512US/sem/rpsm/oid/184694/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do00:36
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rm_youlol it's for their phones?00:36
derfThe tip is a little too long, so it doesn't fit snugly into the port, but it works.00:36
rm_youand it works great i assume?00:36
rm_youhrm00:36
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derfI mean, I've never had it fall out or anything, it just sticks out a little.00:37
rm_you>_>00:37
rm_younow, the question is... do i care $20 worth about a snug fit... >_>00:37
derfI cared $20 worth that I could drive over and have it today.00:38
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rm_youheh00:40
rm_youlibgueefalfjvlnfuy3oq48g7vo4yr7b 3g0274p200:43
MudhoneyI have WLAN connections set to "connect automatically" and "search interval" to 5 minutes.  Idle time is unlimited.  Does anyone know why it would not try to use a connection I've defined even if it has been 5 minutes since I was disconnected and I'm within range?00:43
rm_youthis gtk shit is driving me @(#$&ing nuts00:43
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MudhoneyI think it will reconnect if I use the browser or rss feed app.  otherwise it doesn't seem to do it automatically00:44
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MudhoneyWhere I work, the wireless is spotty so sometimes I get disconnected walking around and I'd like to stay connected as much as possible.00:45
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Mudhoneymaybe someone knows of a way to hack the n800's wireless equipment for better reception?00:49
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keesjcan the flasher tool --hw-revision set the hardware and revision code?00:49
Robot101keesj: no00:50
keesjI apparently changed my n810 into a n800 by performing a funky flash operation00:50
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Robot101... ouch00:51
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keesjIt had become Found device RX-34, hardware revision 080500:52
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keesjand what is a cold flash?00:54
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Robot101keesj: cold flashing is when you have the device on a debugging connector called a jig00:54
Robot101keesj: it connects up the serial port00:54
Robot101keesj: you feed the bootloader to the device over serial00:55
Robot101and that's implemented in hardware00:55
Robot101so you can recover a device with a mangled bootloader00:55
Robot101or work around a bug in the bootloader which can harm flashing00:55
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derfrm_you: Well, I bought the thing. Should arrive before I leave the country for 3 weeks.00:58
rm_you:)00:58
derfSo we'll see how it does.00:58
rm_youNewegg ships ridiculously fast00:58
derfI know. I love it.00:58
keesjI think it is the flash that refuses to flash atm http://paste-it.net/5685 . I have a black screen but I see the lights are on and the device responsd00:59
rm_youyeah, it was a very painless setup, and it does work great... i hope your experience is similarly excellent :P00:59
derfIf I don't, I'll send you a bill.01:00
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rm_youlol01:01
rm_youjust a note: if you have a motorola cell phone or any other wall plug usb charger, it probably won't work01:02
rm_youat least, the one for my phone didn't01:02
derfHuh, why not?01:02
rm_youbut USB to computer seems 100%01:02
rm_youand the wall plug they ship works01:02
rm_youso01:02
rm_youdifferent voltage? dunno01:03
rm_youit didn't seem to harm it though when i tried, fortunately01:03
rm_youit just wouldn't trigger the charge light01:03
derfWell, the car charger let's you plug a USB cable into _it_, instead of having its own cable attached.01:03
derfThe car charger I have, I meant to say.01:03
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johnxhopefully anything that comes out of a USB mini-B is 5v01:04
rm_youah, well, that will probably work, as it's more standard01:04
johnxit might just not be enough amperage01:04
derfSo I can use it with the aforementioned Kingston cable to also charge the N800.01:04
rm_youmaybe01:04
derfIt would be nice to have just one adapter and swap cables.01:04
rm_you*maybe @ johnx01:04
rm_youyeah01:04
rm_youthat will prolly work fine01:04
rm_youevery other USB charge plug i've tried besides the one for my cell phone works fine01:05
keesjbugger01:05
derfWe'll see... I mean, I can keep both adapters in the glove box.01:05
rm_youlets see... 5v 550mA01:05
rm_youfor cell phone01:05
johnxaaah...that would make sense01:05
rm_you5v 500mA for gps >_>01:05
rm_youmaybe i just got unlucky01:06
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derfI thought the USB standard mandated only 500 mA?01:06
rm_yousec, will try it again :P01:06
johnxthe max that something is *supposed* to be able to draw from a USB port is 500mA01:06
johnxa lot of laptops only do <300mA and the Zaurus/N8x0/(other OTG device) only do 100-200mA01:06
rm_youpfft nevermind anything i said01:06
rm_youit works fine this time01:06
johnxheh01:06
rm_you*happy*01:06
derfThat was supposedly Nokia's reason for not having a USB charger built-in, was the amperage requirement.01:07
CrashandDiewhat is flite for ?01:07
CrashandDieit says flite works with maemo mapper01:07
derfSpeech synthesis.01:08
derfIt reads the route points as you approach them.01:08
CrashandDieso maemo mapper can do GPS routing ,01:08
CrashandDie?01:08
rm_youhrm, though cell phone won't charge from the GPS one01:08
rm_youso yeah, my cell phone is non-standard01:08
derfWell... roughly.01:08
CrashandDiehmm01:08
rm_youwhich is annoying, because i bought a battery -> usb thingy for like $20 and it doesnt work with my cell phone01:09
derfIt doesn't try to fix the GPS position to a point on the track.01:09
rm_youbut it does charge the GPS and hopefully will my n800 when i get that cable :)01:09
CrashandDiewell I am going to take the 3 year wayfinder subscription01:09
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derfAnd it gets the route from a web service... so you have to be connected to download it.01:09
rm_youcan wayfinder get routes *NOT* connected!?01:09
rm_youthat would be... sweet01:09
CrashandDieyeah, ok01:09
CrashandDierm_you, sure01:10
derfrm_you: I have no idea.01:10
rm_youhrm01:10
CrashandDierm_you, that's why you have to download such huge waypoints01:10
rm_you>_>01:10
CrashandDiebtw01:10
GeneralAntillesYou can pre-download routes with maemo mapper.01:10
rm_youit's actually very small compared to MaemoMapper's mapfiles01:10
GeneralAntillesvector-based.01:10
derfGeneralAntilles: Right... until you make a wrong turn, or want to go somewhere else.01:10
rm_youyeah01:10
rm_you:/01:10
GeneralAntillesSure, derf, but it's also free. ;)01:11
rm_youlol01:11
CrashandDiewell I'm sorry, it was preloaded with canada and the whole us waypoints, and I live in Europe, so my memory was full :D01:11
derfGeneralAntilles: I'm not disparaging what John's done.01:11
rm_youhehe01:11
derfI'm just saying.01:11
rm_youyeah, for sure01:11
rm_youthe app is amazinf01:11
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rm_you*amazing01:11
GeneralAntillesIt does do recalculation with a cellular connection.01:11
CrashandDieyeah, it is01:11
CrashandDiejust wondered01:11
derfI have no idea how he found the time to write it.01:11
CrashandDiedo you guys get low-def on google satellite view too ?01:11
CrashandDieI can't zoom in as much as I can on say, google maps or google earth01:12
GeneralAntillesI love maemo mapper for outdoor stuff.01:12
CrashandDieit's quite pixelated01:12
GeneralAntillesThe sat view is amazing.01:12
GeneralAntillesDo you have pixel doubling on, CrashandDie?01:12
rm_youhrm... i wonder if it would be possible to reverse-engineer a way for MM to read the mapfiles from the other mapper01:12
rm_youcause the mapfiles are free... right?01:12
CrashandDieGeneralAntilles, not that I know off01:12
derfCrashandDie: Old maemo mapper versions only had 16 zoom levels.01:12
|tbb|how to force kill a app if kill PID or killall progname doesnt work?01:12
derfThe new ones have 20.01:12
GeneralAntillesOK, let me rephrase: you have pixel doubling on. :P01:12
CrashandDieoh right, because I didn't update the OS :/01:12
derfWhich as near as I can tell, go as far as maps.google.com does.01:13
johnxrm_you, builtin "Maps" uses vector maps IIRC01:13
rm_youyeah...01:13
GeneralAntillesThat would be hilarious if maemo mapper could use the "Map" maps and routing info.01:13
rm_youcause then i could fit the entire USWest in the same space as the two cities i have downloaded currently >_>01:13
CrashandDieit wouldn't be hilarious, it would be awesome01:14
derfYes... .jpg is not ideal for street maps.01:14
rm_youyeah :/01:14
rm_youGeneralAntilles: so yeah, i'm stuck on that brightness app01:14
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derfAt least the new database format means it isn't wasting 32KB on 100-byte JPEGs of a solid color.01:14
rm_you0.2 is pretty much the best i am going to be able to do unless someone magically appears to tell me how to fit the damn controlbar into a menu01:14
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: but at 0.2 it is very usable, i believe01:15
|tbb|anyone could help?01:15
GeneralAntillesHow is the hell is there nobody around who knows how the Nokia applets work?01:16
rm_youGeneralAntilles: I know, right!? >_< wtf01:16
derfI hate fat32 so much... "What do you mean my 100MB of data requires 2GB of disk storage?"01:16
rm_youheh01:16
rm_youGeneralAntilles: well, did you grab 0.2? it has nice display features :P01:16
CrashandDiethere's one thing I want to do for the n81001:17
rm_youas in, it correctly displays the dynamically filling brightness icon :P01:17
CrashandDieand that's try to get as close to paquet injection as anyone can01:17
GeneralAntillesYeah, I've got 0.201:17
CrashandDietrying**01:17
GeneralAntillesCrashed the desktop a couple times01:17
rm_you:(01:17
GeneralAntillescouldn't tell you why.01:17
GeneralAntillesWorking fine now.01:17
rm_youhrm01:17
|tbb|go CrashandDie go for it ;)01:17
rm_youthat's... odd?01:17
rm_youlol01:17
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GeneralAntillesYeah, dunno.01:18
CrashandDie|tbb|, heh :)01:18
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|tbb|so how can i force kill a process if killall or kill not work01:19
keesjkillall -901:20
CrashandDiekill -901:20
|tbb|:)01:20
keesjkill -9 -1 is my preffered one01:21
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rm_yougah how do i remove a file named "-o"01:21
rm_youi tried rm \-o and rm '-o' and rm '\-o'01:22
rm_you>_>01:22
b0unc3 rm \"-o\"01:22
rm_younope :/01:23
jottrm -- -o01:23
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rm_youTHANK YOU01:23
rm_youlol01:23
CrashandDierm lol01:23
CrashandDiehmm01:23
CrashandDiesorry bout that01:23
CrashandDiealready typed rm, then added lol01:23
johnxyeah don't remove the laughs here. :P01:24
CrashandDiewouldn't be a lot left :D01:24
CrashandDieokay, so what do you guys prefer for deving for maemo ?01:24
keesjrm ./-o01:24
CrashandDieC/GTK ?01:24
CrashandDiewhat is the interface based on ?01:24
johnxI don't dev but the two most popular things are: C/GTK and python/GTK01:25
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CrashandDieC++ not popular ?01:26
johnxhmmm...I don't know01:26
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johnxI'm 90% sure there are C++ bindings for hildon/gtk01:26
CrashandDiewhere can I find other applets ? For the home screen ?01:27
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fugitivoI like C/GTK01:27
derfC++ is bad for your health.01:27
|tbb|how can i increase the number of commands while using uparrow in xterm and how can i tell xterm if i run the same command twice it should handle it as one and not overwrite the one before01:28
fugitivosome people use python01:28
johnxCrashandDie, applets are all over the place...but not really organized anywhere01:28
CrashandDiethat's too bad01:28
johnxCrashandDie, OMWeather is popular and "simple launcher"01:28
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Toma-does anyone have KDE running on a 770 or n800?01:31
johnxToma-, Penguinbait does01:31
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Toma-that was awesome timing.01:31
Toma-penguinbait➜ would it be possible to have a peek at the kde launcher for 770 or n800?01:32
johnxToma-, yeah. That took a while to plan and synchronize. :D01:32
Toma-hehehe :P01:32
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CrashandDieanyone got other tips for nice applets ?01:33
GeneralAntillesN810?01:34
|tbb|a run applet01:34
CrashandDieyup01:34
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Andy80hi all01:35
b0unc3hi Andy8001:35
Andy80I'm trying Canola on n810 :)01:36
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CrashandDiehmm01:38
Cptnodegarddoes the OS2008 backup function back up GPE?01:38
Cptnodegarddidnt get a definite answer earlier01:38
CrashandDieAndy80, canola rocks !01:38
CrashandDiehmm... Anyone know how I can get the station code from weather.com for a non-us city ?01:39
Andy80CrashandDie: yeah :) even if... the could have released it opensource :\01:39
CrashandDiebleh01:39
CrashandDiewho cares, it's pretty much one of the best apps around (from what I've seen)01:39
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CrashandDiejohnx, any idea ?01:40
Andy80what we relly miss know is a good application like GPE, but better... with a user interface like canola ;)01:40
johnxhmm, good question...and I think I must have done it at some point too...01:40
johnxCrashandDie, have you entered the city name into the search at the top of weather.com ?01:41
johnxit came up no problem for me01:41
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|tbb|is it possible to read a gzip and its content ascii characters without decompress it01:42
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johnx|tbb|, zcat01:43
johnxor zless or zmore01:43
johnxhmm, does zmore exist?01:43
CrashandDiejohnx, perpignan france01:44
CrashandDiehttp://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/local/FRXX0128?x=0&lswe=perpignan&lswa=WeatherLocalUndeclared&y=001:44
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johnxCrashandDie, FRXX012801:49
johnxlook at the URL harder :D01:49
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CrashandDiejohnx, I did01:51
CrashandDiejohnx, doesn't work01:51
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johnxhmm...it "Works for me" (TM)01:51
CrashandDiehang on, lemme try again01:51
CrashandDieok01:52
CrashandDieI can go hang myself01:52
CrashandDiemust have mistyped or something, dunno01:52
CrashandDiesorry for that01:52
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johnxno problem :)01:52
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johnxthe weather.com site is so obnoxious :/01:55
johnxno wonder everyone uses another program to parse their data01:55
CrashandDieyeah lol01:55
CrashandDiehmm01:56
CrashandDiesimple launcher doesn't want to do invisible background :/01:56
johnxI don't think that works with 2008OS yet01:57
CrashandDieright01:57
CrashandDiefunny thing is01:57
CrashandDieI got my n810 today01:57
CrashandDieand I'm like all happy01:57
CrashandDieso I go out, and do maybe 4 different stores, in order to get a charger01:58
CrashandDieand none of them had one01:58
CrashandDieand I'm like "OH COME ON"01:58
CrashandDieI go home, look at the adapter, read what's on it01:58
CrashandDie"110-240V 50-60Hz"01:58
CrashandDieoh well, that will do, just started cutting, soldering and galvanizing :) Tadaaa, working charger :D01:59
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CrashandDieanyway, I'm pretty damn happy with this tablet01:59
johnxdon't they have cheap adapters that just adapt the shape of the plug?01:59
CrashandDieI dunno, I couldn't be bothered to look around too long02:00
CrashandDieI asked "do you have a nokia adapter, the new ones ? for this ?" "OOOH SHINY, WUT IS DAT ?"02:00
johnxwell it's the same adapter is comes with lots of Nokia phones02:01
CrashandDieyeah I know02:01
CrashandDiebut it seems someone went on a frenzy and decided I shouldn't have one, and bought them all02:01
johnxheh...that sucks02:01
CrashandDiewell, like I said, I have my charger working, just, maybe doesn't look as good as what it did like about 8 hours ago :-°02:02
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CrashandDielast ciggie then I'm off02:08
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CrashandDiehey doc|home, long time no see02:10
doc|homehey CrashandDie :)02:11
doc|homehave been here, just not saying much02:11
CrashandDienever saw you here02:11
CrashandDiejust remember you from #gentoo a few years ago02:11
doc|home:)02:13
doc|homestill using it?02:13
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CrashandDiegentoo ?02:13
doc|homeyeah02:13
CrashandDieYeah, still installed somewhere, but not really active anymore02:13
* doc|home nods02:13
CrashandDieI guess I just got tired of breaking my system every few months02:13
doc|homeheh02:14
* |tbb| think about what nokia should say: maemo connecting people ;)02:14
CrashandDieit's all fun, for a while, you learn tons, and the community back then was pretty awesome02:15
doc|homeyeah, a lot has changed since :/02:15
CrashandDiedoc|home, but then a few things happened, which I didn't like, so eventually, I just became a regular idle guy on #gentoo02:15
doc|homeyeah02:15
CrashandDielike ops being asses and banning other ops02:15
johnxit always happens eventually :/02:16
doc|homeCrashandDie: when was this?02:16
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CrashandDiedoc|home, dunno, couple of years now prolly02:16
doc|homehmmm, I've only seen that twice since I've been there02:16
CrashandDiedoc|home, remember reisio? or something along those lines, I never got blackace's side of the story, because he'd just ignore me02:17
doc|homeoh yeah, reisio is long gone, and iirc he has even been banned02:17
doc|homehe changed02:17
doc|homewent a bit... off02:17
CrashandDiebut also stuff like removing xmms from portage, telling people to start using something else, it's not the gentoo spirit02:17
doc|homeit is when there are vulnerabilities and it's no longer supported upstream :/02:18
CrashandDieoh come on, vulnerabilities in xmms ? tsss02:18
rm_youi used to hang out in #gentoo like... 2 years ago02:18
doc|homethere's only so much devs can do, and audacious was even more capable02:18
rm_youit was really cool back then :P02:18
CrashandDieWhen I started out in Gentoo, it was about user choices, no one was supposed to be there to interfere with what we wanted... And when they started fiddling with user preferences, that's when I sortof pulled the plug I guess02:19
rm_youI switched from gentoo to ubuntu though... I was having apt-withdrawls02:19
doc|homeyeah, ubuntu is less work now. Gentoo used to be easier to look after :/02:19
rm_youand i got tired of recompiling half my system every week, because I was OCD about emerge -uvD world02:19
CrashandDieI gotta give credit where credit is due, Gentoo really made my day, and even more than that, it thought me things no other distribution ever could02:20
rm_youtruth02:20
rm_youI learned a LOT from running gentoo for a year :P02:20
CrashandDieI tried arch for a bit02:20
CrashandDiebut that was like jumping back to Gentoo in 200202:20
johnxyeah, it's one of the only big distros that still encourage you to dig into it and hack02:20
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CrashandDieso I just reinstalled Gentoo, helped the community by getting the drivers for my soundcard to work, and had fun with the ipw3945 drivers, and then, eventually, I installed Solaris02:21
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CrashandDieafter Solaris came Ubuntu, after Ubuntu came Debian, after Debian came... No wait, that's it02:22
doc|homeubuntu > debian02:22
* doc|home hhides02:22
CrashandDielol02:22
johnxdoc|home, ubuntu ~= debian02:22
CrashandDiefor a home server ? No way02:22
doc|homejohnx: underneath perhaps, but it's much better packaged than debian02:22
|tbb|could zcat read gzip files while  the file is allready in use?02:23
johnxdoc|home, hmm02:23
johnx|tbb|, yes02:23
CrashandDie|tbb|, yes, as long as no flock is used02:23
johnxubuntu and debian just make different packaging decisions02:23
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johnxubuntu is not right for servers because of that02:23
|tbb|i became an error like zcat: short read02:23
CrashandDieI guess ubuntu is a wee bit too bleeding edge02:24
johnx|tbb|, is the file being modified while you're trying to use zcat?02:24
rm_youheh, i love both debian and ubuntu02:24
CrashandDiegreat for a desktop, not so great when you just want to maintain a server easily02:24
rm_youi just use them for different things02:24
|tbb|yes it is02:24
rm_youI still use debian for anything server related, and ubuntu for desktops02:24
rm_youubuntu is just a much better desktop-oriented distro02:25
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* czr moved to ubuntu on most x86/x86-64 archs ages ago (servers)02:25
* johnx agrees with rm_you 02:25
czria-64 is slightly different02:25
CrashandDieyeah, ubuntu studio is awesome though02:25
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johnx|tbb|, what are you trying to accomplish in general?02:25
CrashandDiewell, that's it for me02:26
CrashandDieI have this stupid class in a few hours02:26
CrashandDieman, why is it soooo hard for students to understand pointers in C ?02:26
czrbad teachers02:26
rm_youlol? :P02:27
CrashandDieheh02:27
rm_you*I* still barely understand pointers in C02:27
rm_youbut i never had a class on it02:27
rm_youalso, I do mostly Java and Python >_>02:27
rm_youthough I guess at this point I pretty much get it... just not the advanced stuff you can do with them02:27
rm_youwhich there appears to be a LOT of02:27
CrashandDiewell, a pointer is just a memory address, it points to a given position in the memory stack, after that, there's nothing more to understand02:28
czra pointer is not _just_ a memory address02:28
CrashandDiewell, it is02:28
czrptr ++;02:28
CrashandDieok02:28
CrashandDiepoint taken02:28
czrthat's what I mean.02:28
rm_youlol02:29
rm_yousee? *advanced* stuff02:29
rm_youmostly i just suck at allocating my own memory >_>02:29
rm_youmalloc/calloc02:29
rm_youand knowing when i have to delete it02:30
CrashandDiethat's not advanced... You increment the position of the pointer, so depending on the datatype pointed by the pointer, it will increment accordingly02:30
CrashandDiebut yeah02:30
CrashandDiepointers are shitty, I'll admit02:30
CrashandDiec++/Java ftw, references ftw !02:30
czractually it depends on the type of the pointer, not the type of the data that it points to :-)02:30
* czr hides under a rock called "sematics"02:30
rm_youheh02:31
rm_youdunno, if i had ever taken a class that went over C stuff, then i would probably be ok with them02:31
rm_youi just... didn't02:31
* czr nods02:31
czryou could also just spend some proper time with The Book02:31
CrashandDieyet again, pointing to a set of data that doesn't match the datatype is pretty stupid if you don't know why you're doing it, and if you do, yeah, I'll admit, that starts to be quite advanced02:31
czrand hang around ##c asking silly questions..02:32
CrashandDieor just googling and try to answer them02:32
CrashandDiewhich is probably where you learn most02:32
czrmaybe with php02:32
CrashandDiedude02:32
czror other copy&paste languages02:32
CrashandDieyou frighten me02:32
* czr evillaughters02:33
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czrCrashandLie, I've had plenty of discussions with other people about the pedagogy of teaching "advanced" C.02:34
johnxheh...I remember my intro to java class when I would get null pointer exceptions. "I'm not using pointers Java! Stop lying!"02:35
czrso far there are two camps. one which tends to push the very abstract approach, the other one being the "bottom-up" thingy, where you'd talk about memory addresses and such02:35
czrI've yet to be convinced that either approach by themselves works the best..02:35
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czrjohnx, you didn't realize already at that point that java is just fud? :-)02:35
czror was it crud.. /me can't remember.02:36
johnxI was young and naive (and the class was required)02:36
czrwe've all been there..02:36
czrthe first two bits at least :-)02:36
johnxI loved scheme though02:36
czrI don't have time to play with other languages these days, too sad..02:37
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johnxthey taught scheme as the "intro to computer science" class02:37
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johnxone of those "you have to be cruel to be kind" things02:38
czryeah, I can see that :-)02:38
czrbut I guess the language doesn't matter much, as long as you don't end up spending too much time in non-important issues (like you end up in C)02:38
johnxright, and that's why scheme is great02:39
* czr nods02:39
johnxyou just *couldn't* pass that class without understand recursion and iteration02:39
czrI'd probably use python if I'd be in that situation02:39
johnxor understanding why linked lists are slower than arrays02:40
czrwhee02:40
czrtraining material went live at last02:40
rm_youyeah... my classes went: C++, Python, Scheme, ML, Java, Java, Java, Java02:41
johnxAt least they got scheme and ML in there02:41
rm_youit was an elective >_>02:41
czrI think my first official torture language was LOGO02:41
rm_youi think...02:41
czr"see how the nice turtle does a stack space exceeded dump on the screen"02:41
rm_yourofl02:41
rm_youOH YEAH02:41
czrmy teacher didn't appreciate my creativity too much02:42
rm_youI DID LOGO!!! when i was like 10! lol02:42
* czr nods02:42
rm_youand QBASIC >_>02:42
johnxman, I think they had me doing logo when I was like 8 O_o02:42
rm_youbut i sucked too much back then to really know what i was doing02:42
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czrheh. we didn't have that officially. I think there was some "localized" version of TP that we used02:42
johnxyeah, it was more like a class in "copy the instructions"02:42
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czror at least I used, although I threw out the localization pretty quickly away.02:43
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czrI guess they don't teach programming anymore at lower classes?02:43
czrgiven the futility?02:43
rm_youprobably not much :/02:43
rm_youmy first class was in highschool02:43
rm_youwhich was alright02:43
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czrmine was in 7th grade I think, although I was writing programs back then anyway, so it didn't matter all that much (and that's the main reason why my LOGO teacher didn't like my creativity)02:44
GeneralAntillesDid some light programming on Apple IIs in elementary, then Java in high school.02:44
CrashandLieok, i've got a last qusetion, then I'm really off02:45
johnxI taught myself TIBasic and programmed on a calculator then took C over the summer in high school02:45
CrashandLieis there an on-screen keyboard on the nokia n810 ?02:45
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johnxCrashandLie, yes02:46
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CrashandLieknow how I get it to show up ?02:46
johnxno idea02:46
CrashandLiehmm02:46
CrashandLieok02:46
CrashandLiedoesn't matter02:46
johnxlend me your N810 and I'll figure it out. :D02:47
CrashandLieheh02:47
CrashandLiena02:47
CrashandLiedon't think so, I'm not bored of it02:47
CrashandLie(yet)02:47
CrashandLiecheers, I'm out02:47
CrashandLiepeace02:47
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rm_youlol yeah TIBasic :P02:47
johnx26 variables ought to be enough for anyone!02:48
GeneralAntillesDid a lot of programming on my TI-83 Plus in middle school.02:48
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GeneralAntillesWeird viral transmission of software02:48
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup. Same calc I had in high school02:48
GeneralAntillessince you could only really share with link cables.02:48
* czr is part of the "TI?" generation02:48
johnxemulate functions by calling other programs with "well known" variables set02:48
* czr hugs his old casio02:49
czryou can program one variable evaluation in it02:49
czrand heck, it has sin, cos and tan. what else do you really need.02:49
rm_youheh02:49
rm_youWell, i remember the day I realized you could store stuff in the matrices, and basically have unlimited variables02:49
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johnxthe "link" port was really just a serial port IIRC. I wanted soo much to get it talking to a modem02:50
rm_youit was like... OMG 2d arrays! :P02:50
johnxrm_you, I don't think I got that advanced (desparate?)02:50
rm_youlol02:50
rm_youi had a program that used like 60 variables >_>02:50
czrsimilar to the OMG I had with the casio. "Oh man, now I don't have to repeat the whole thing over and over again for 20 different values of X"02:50
rm_youit was an adventure game02:50
rm_youkinda like PIMP (if you remember that one)02:50
* czr pimps rm_you's TI02:51
rm_youlol02:51
johnxbling bling02:51
czryeah. and 56" built in TFT that you can watch when you remove the cover to replace the battery!02:51
penguinbaitanyone remember "liesure suit larry in the land of the lounge lizards"02:51
czrof course02:51
penguinbaithaha02:51
czrken sent me02:51
czrI should probably do something useful seeing that I'm not going to sleep anyway02:52
rm_youlol02:52
rm_youczr: you know much GTK?02:52
czrI know some02:53
rm_youdid i already ask you about making a HildonControlbar fit into a GtkMenu and function correctly? :P02:53
czrmm. no?02:53
rm_youor at least, something that LOOKS visually like the GtkMenu02:53
czrhaven't tried that one02:53
czrisn't HildonControlbar just a regular widget though?02:54
rm_youyeah02:54
rm_youit's basically a GtkScale02:54
czrso what's the problem?02:54
czrcreate a GtkMenuItem and add the widget to it?02:54
rm_youbut if i force it into a GtkMenuItem, and then put it into a GtkMenu02:54
rm_youif you try to click on it to like... move the slider, it selects it and closes the menu02:54
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czrhmm02:55
rm_you>_>02:55
czrI guess that is what menus are supposed to do..02:55
rm_yougetting it to fit into the menu and actually display at all requires a GtkHBox, i think...02:55
rm_youright02:55
rm_youbut like... you know how the backlight/volume applets work on the n8x002:55
czryeah02:55
rm_youyou click them, and theres the menu, but with a controlbar/volumebar at the top02:55
rm_youi need to duplicate that02:56
czrbut I don't think they use a GtkMenu for it02:56
czrmight be a regular dialog instead02:56
czrwith fixed screen position. although I'm not sure..02:56
czrhave you asked on the mailing list?02:57
rm_youno02:57
rm_youwhat is the mailing list?02:57
rm_youI'm certainly not on it02:57
czryou might want to. just say that you want to duplicate what the existing thingy does02:57
czrmaemo-developers02:57
rm_youi suppose that might work better than asking on IRC every day02:57
czryes02:58
czrhttps://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers02:58
czra lot of people read the list, but don't IRC so much02:58
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czror at all. so you might get better coverage for your question02:59
czrjust be specific enough with it, maybe someone will have a nice solution for you..02:59
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rm_youis there like, a mailing list archive?03:05
rm_youthat i can search through?03:05
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johnxyes03:05
czrthe link I gave you should have an archive03:06
czrnot sure about the search capability, I search locally03:06
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johnxgossamer-threads appears to have a searchable archive of it03:06
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Lahirupenguinbait, hi03:09
rm_youk03:09
Lahirupenguinbait, I need a help with installing KDE on n800 :)03:09
Lahirupenguinbait, I'm having a 1GB mmc... will tht enough to install KDE3.5.8?03:11
penguinbaitnope03:11
Lahirupenguinbait, n800 on OS200803:11
penguinbait1gb is not enough03:11
penguinbaitsad huh :)03:12
Lahirupenguinbait, oh.. can I find another edition.. with lesser number of pkgs?03:12
Lahirupenguinbait, yes :(03:12
penguinbaitnope03:12
Lahiruneed to test KDE while I buy a 2GB card :)03:12
penguinbaiteven if you boot from mmc, you need like 1.3GB03:12
Lahiruwell I hv another removable card03:13
penguinbait2gb?03:13
Lahirunop 120M :)03:14
penguinbaityeah, thats not helping you :)03:14
penguinbaitis that the one that came with 810?03:14
penguinbaitis that the one that came with 80003:14
penguinbaitI mean03:14
Lahirun800, yes03:14
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Lahiruwell then I shd buy a 2gb card today :)03:15
Lahirupenguinbait, just one thing.. whr shd we install kde mmc partition1 or 2?03:15
penguinbaitdont matter03:16
penguinbaiteither03:16
Lahirumm cnt we remove OS2008 and install pure kde? :)03:17
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LahiruI'm confused.. why are we partitioning mmc03:18
Lahirucnt we just install kde without doing partition?03:18
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Lahirupenguinbait, I'll buy a 2G and try :) thanks a lot03:24
penguinbaitnp03:24
penguinbaitsorry I cant shrink it, I wish I could03:24
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Lahirupenguinbait, hehh it's fine.. thanks for making it :)03:25
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Lahirupenguinbait, one help please :)03:32
penguinbaitwhats up03:32
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Lahirupenguinbait, I'm currently having a 1 GB mmc as internal memory03:32
penguinbaitok03:32
penguinbaitmmc203:32
Lahiruso is it ok to get another 1GB as an external mmc card03:32
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penguinbaitno03:33
Lahiruthen will I be able to install KDE03:33
jottyou could try to squeez it in a squashfs03:33
Lahiruah :(03:33
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rm_youyou should just go ahead and buy a 4g or and 8g card now >_>03:33
rm_youi have 2x 4g03:33
* jott just build a module because he also has a 1gb card and waits for his 4 gb card to arrive :)03:34
rm_youbut i will need to go buy 8g soon03:34
penguinbaitthere are 2 ways to install KDE, 1 requires a 1.5GB partition and the other requires 2gb03:34
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penguinbaitI have 8gb in n800, but will have to buy  microsdhc soon03:34
Lahirucan we use 4GB on n800?03:34
LahiruI don;t think so03:34
penguinbaityes03:34
penguinbaitI have 8gb03:35
penguinbaitsdhc03:35
Lahirummc?03:35
penguinbaitSD03:35
Lahiruah03:35
johnxLahiru, you can use any SDHC card03:35
johnxup to 16GB is tested03:35
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Lahirugreat! I'll buy an SDHC then cool :)03:35
penguinbaitI dont think any 32's are out yet are they?03:35
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johnxI dunno03:36
johnxthere are 32GB CF cards, right?03:36
rm_youyeah but SD is behind03:36
jottpenguinbait: how good can the kde build be compressed? just thinking if it's worth to try to put it in a squashfs to bring it <1gb03:37
Lahirujott, yes pls hehe03:37
rm_youfood, bbl03:37
penguinbaitI would imagine alot03:37
jottso it could fit :)03:37
penguinbaitI include everything, which is alot of small text type files03:38
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penguinbaitI never used squashfs, I no nothing about it03:38
jottit's a compressed (read only) filesystem03:39
jottpenguinbait: have you actually considered backporting debian or ubuntu kde packages so we could have a real split build with separate packages?03:40
penguinbaitI am not a developer, people may not no how lucky they are to get what they got :)03:41
* jott considers to do so03:42
jottwhat where the biggest pitfalls you had when just compiling?03:42
johnxjott, how much have you dug into packaging for 2008OS?03:43
johnxit's missing *lots* of stuff when compared to a regular debian system03:43
penguinbaitfrom what developer tell me is its a linker problem03:44
penguinbaitbut basically when compiling it cant find certain libs it already compiled03:44
johnxsometimes I think it might be easier to make the hardware dependent and GUI stuff run on a more debian-like system then backporting debian packages onto 2008OS03:44
jottjohnx: well just started to do some basic infrastructure building of missing debian bootstrap stuff03:44
johnxgreat!03:44
johnxI think we both had the same idea! and you already started. :D03:45
penguinbaitSo I use intuition and point it where I think they are03:45
Lahirucan somebody help me to revert my 1G card pls :)03:46
LahiruI partitioned it in hoping to install kde03:46
Lahiru;)03:46
jottjohnx: actually i consider patching the sbuild system (there was once a patch for scratchbox support but this is obsolete)03:47
penguinbaitLahiru, are trying to install from deb or boot from SD/mmc03:47
penguinbait?03:47
johnxLahiru, you want one big FAT16 partition back?03:47
jotti guess with a running sbuild one could build quite everything without too much of a hassle..03:48
johnxjott, especially since the debian armel port works so well03:48
Lahirujohnx, yes03:48
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Lahirupenguinbait, was trying to follow the instructions on the forum :)03:48
johnxsome N800 packages will probably need to be repacked from files on the device03:49
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penguinbaitwhich instructions?03:49
penguinbaitwith debs, or not03:49
Lahirupenguinbait, the link on your hacking site :)03:49
penguinbaitok03:50
penguinbaitthere is a new way03:50
penguinbaiteasier03:50
penguinbaitno partitioning03:50
Lahiruahh please tell me03:50
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penguinbait1 sec03:50
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Lahirua link03:50
Lahirupenguinbait, Thanks03:50
penguinbaithttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14680&highlight=KDE03:51
penguinbaithttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1468003:51
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Lahirupenguinbait, thanks03:51
jottjohnx: yes.. well as i have a n810 now my motivation increased by an infinite number to deal with this ;)03:51
penguinbaitnp03:51
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johnxI'm pretty motivated too03:52
johnxthere is so much software in debian ARMEL that it's shame to duplicate efforts03:52
pupnikjohnx: whatever you can do to help bridge to debian ARMEL will be appreciated03:53
johnxheh...don't look at me03:53
hachimodest refuses to start up for me :\03:53
johnxI have no idea if I'll really get anywhere with this03:54
jotti guess one has to fight with some little scratchbox limitations..03:54
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jotti failed to build eperl for example as it tries to link against x86 perl libs :)03:54
johnxjott, I was almost thinking about running a buildd in a qemu armel debian chroot03:55
johnxI would sacrifice a lot of compiling power but gain a lot of "just works"03:55
jottjohnx: yeah indeed..03:55
Lahirujohnx, can I get tht 1gb space back?03:56
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Lahirujohnx, I hv partitioned it :)03:56
jottwell maybe it's worth a try to bootstrap chinook into a debian qemu chroot and fix the bootstrap that it matches debians needs...03:57
johnxLahiru, you want it to be just like it was when you got it, basically?03:57
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Lahirujohnx, yes03:58
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johnxWhat program did you use to partition it?03:59
Lahirusfdisk03:59
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jottLahiru: have you run mkfs.vfat on the device? or is the partition table still broken?04:00
LahiruI used # mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p104:03
Lahiruand # mke2fs /dev/mmcblk0p204:03
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johnxjott, he partitioned it successfully and he wants it back to default one parition04:04
johnxjeez, I thought fdisk was cryptic enough ... then I started reading the man for sfdisk04:04
johnxLahiru, do you run Linux or Windows on your desktop? Do you have a card reader for it?04:05
Lahirushall I sfdisk it and just press enter04:05
LahiruLinux04:05
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LahiruI'll try using it04:06
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johnxLahiru, yes, start and enter should do it04:08
johnxI haven't used sfdisk before04:08
johnxI always preferred cfdisk04:08
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rm_youyes, cfdisk is a lifesaver04:25
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jottpenguinbait: the contents of KDE358.tar.bz2 is 322mb in a squashfs container.04:33
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penguinbaitwow04:33
penguinbaithow would it run though04:33
penguinbaitis that just like a file image?04:34
jottyou can just mount it04:34
Lahirufixed :)04:34
jott(given you have the squashfs.ko loaded)04:34
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penguinbaitthats what I am doing with ext2 local.img on /media/mmc1 or 204:34
hachiugh, now pidgin won't even let me add an account04:34
johnxwow, maybe I'll try out KDE then :D04:34
jottyeah .. so using squashfs instead of ext2 in that place would safe alot of memory (with some small performance impact)04:35
penguinbaitok, so all I would have to replace is the first deb04:35
penguinbaitI could do that quickly04:35
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penguinbaitI need some instructions for how to mount squashfs?04:36
Lahirujott, could u please tell me how can I use squashfs04:36
penguinbaitmount -t squashfs04:36
* Andy80 doesn't like kde :p (flaaaaameeee :D)04:36
Lahirugreat! after penguinbait  I ll be able to install kde on my 1gb :)04:36
jottpenguinbait: you can create a squashfs container quite easily (even without kernel support) - just (install and) run mksquashfs dir/ containerfile04:37
johnxAndy80, I'm not a big KDE fan but "free and takes 322MB" is a nice price point :P04:37
penguinbaitwell I need the squashfs.ko to mount it right04:37
penguinbaitI would put it all in a deb04:37
penguinbaitI have a small deb to create a ext2 fs, its just changing that one04:38
jotthttp://sse2.net/maemo/squashfs.ko04:38
hachiunable to update pidgin-exprefs, update file is corrupted04:38
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rm_youooo04:38
jottthats for Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 ..04:38
Andy80johnx: the great thing is that user has the possibility to choose ;)04:38
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jottbut i guess it should work on all maemo 2.6.21-omap104:38
penguinbaitmy 2008os is same kernel04:39
penguinbait50-204:39
rm_youi'll try KDE too at ~400mb :P04:39
penguinbaitand os version04:39
rm_youi hate it on PC, but some of the apps could come in handy :)04:39
penguinbaitwhere to get the tools?04:40
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jotthttp://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-x/kernel_guide_for_maemo.html <- otherwise this guide gives a short intro on how to build kernel modules..04:40
jottpenguinbait: squashfs.sf.net04:40
penguinbaitI really wonder how much slower this will make things04:41
jottor distro provided..04:41
penguinbaitIts not like speed can be spared on KDE04:41
penguinbait?04:41
jottpenguinbait: a bit on load time..but no runtime impact04:41
penguinbaitkonq already take 6-10 secs to load04:41
penguinbaitI guess I can at least see how it runs04:42
jottwell.. we'll never know if we don' try ;)04:42
penguinbaityup04:42
penguinbaitok, I got to go finsh a post on ITT, it was freaking long, the off to squash,  I'll let you know how it goes04:43
jotti wonder if you tried to prelink the kde stuff.. this should give an extra boost on load time04:44
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penguinbaitok squashfs question?05:21
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jottpenguinbait: .. :)05:24
penguinbaitmount -t squashfs image /mnt -o loop05:24
penguinbaitis that ext2 image?05:24
jottsimply "mount -o loop image /mnt" should work..05:25
penguinbaitcan I squash a file local.img which is ext2 fs mounte on /usr/local05:25
jottwith an squashfs "image"05:25
penguinbaitlocal sits on fat05:25
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penguinbaithow do I create a squash image?05:26
jottwell i guess there is no need for ext2 in that case.. (and probably it would also degrade compression)05:26
penguinbaitjust create 1.4gb files witdd then compress?05:26
jottmksquashfs src/ dest.squashfs05:26
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jottno.. you can directly compress the dir.. (like tar/zip)05:27
jottthe resulting image is "read only" then..05:27
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penguinbaitmy problem is the dir is FAT05:28
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penguinbaitso can I take a dir on a FAT FS and squash it, and then untar into it?05:28
penguinbaitmkdir /media/mmc1/squashdir05:29
jottuhm.. i guess the sane approach would be to compress the actual kde dir (instead of dumping it to a ext2 loopback, just compress the content of the ext2 with squashfs)..05:29
jottyou would get an single file that can be stored on fat or what ever..05:30
penguinbaitok, but its readonly?05:30
jottyes05:30
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penguinbaitI would have to redo all my debs, its not as easy as I thought05:31
jottthe compression tool "mksquashfs" just compresses the data (aka gzip and some structural information) into a read-only container05:31
jotthmm..05:31
jotthaven't looked at what you done actually :p05:31
penguinbaitI have three debs, the first one creates via dd a 1.3GB ext2 fs, and mounts it on usr/local05:32
penguinbaitit sits /media/mmc1/local.img05:32
penguinbaitI was hoping to compress local.img, then untar into it using the other two debs.05:32
penguinbaitI already have made05:33
penguinbaitand working :)05:33
penguinbaitmostly :)05:33
penguinbaitif you can read anyway05:33
jottwhat do the other debs do?05:33
penguinbait1 untars the main KDE files, in  /usr /etc /usr/local05:34
penguinbaitand 1 add about 20mb of stuff to start KDE up, that way I could update the smaller deb and not all of KDE, its a smaller download05:35
jott..i see..05:35
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jottok..05:37
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jottbasically you would just make a squashfs from /usr/local and mount afterwards..05:37
penguinbaitI am not done with this, I have some ideas it just might take me  a little more time05:37
jottand strip all /usr/local stuff from the sup package..05:38
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penguinbaitI am thinking of mabe I could do a couple of dirs in /usr/local but not all, do like all of share, but not libs and bin?05:39
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penguinbaitthen the squash images could be put into the KDE tarball?05:39
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jottuff.. well this sounds really messy - but it should somehow work.. :)05:41
penguinbaitwould having multiple squashes mounted be a problem?05:41
jottno.. shouldn't be a problem05:41
jott(as long as you will not exceed loop0 handlers i suppose ;)05:41
jottloopX05:41
penguinbaitright05:41
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jottbut why not stuff all of the local stuff into a big squash file?05:42
jottsomething like: mksquashfs /usr/local kdelocal.squashfs && rm -rf /usr/local/* && mount -o loop kdelocal.squashfs /usr/local05:43
penguinbaitI need to try it first to tes speed,but also would want to be able to update /usr/local possibly05:43
jottmh yeah ro is a disandvantage..05:44
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johnxa unionfs might work really well here...but it would involve some work05:44
penguinbaitI want to put as little as possible in flash05:44
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penguinbaitPlus if I want to add and kde apps I need to write out there also05:45
jottjohnx: yeah to some degree (as it's actually not really necessary)05:45
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johnxit's more complexity up front, but it nicely deals with updating in place05:46
jottthere is also so somewhat "stupid" approach to just symlink everything from some mountpoint to the flash..05:47
jottbut probably a sane unionfs setup would be a good option too..05:47
johnxI'd steer away from symlink hell05:48
jottor just one big ro dir with everything you need in it.. not flexible but kiss :)05:48
johnxask the zaurus users how fun it was :P05:48
* jott knows this ;)05:48
penguinbaitThats what I did05:48
jott(that's where the "stupid" derived from ;-)05:48
penguinbaitsimple is not always tiny :)05:48
johnxeither way, I just mention unionfs for completeness05:48
jottyeah.. quite a few livecd use unionfs ...05:49
johnxhowever there is a certain sweet spot in between tiny-massive and simple-hard05:49
penguinbaitto be fair, its the same size on a desktop, its not like I made it bigger :)05:50
jottpenguinbait: yeah well you could strip alot of stuff and make a "lightweight" version ;)05:50
johnxjott, that smacks of effort05:51
penguinbaitI want functional, for everyone, so I provide everything?05:51
johnxand it's a vicious cycle05:51
johnxevery time upstream updates you have to do lots more work05:51
penguinbaityou can always rip out what you dont want05:51
penguinbaitI am not a developer, I am winging it ;)05:52
johnxpenguinbait, welcome to the club05:52
jottindeed.. getting sbuild or alike running and do a full (debian/ubuntu derived) splitbuild would be imho the best thing to do ;p05:52
penguinbaithehe05:52
johnxjott, I'm trying to drag in maemo-sdk stuff into a debian armel chroot05:52
penguinbaitI am complete advocat of full OS done right, not by me :)05:52
johnxjott, we'll see how well this works05:52
penguinbaitI am just working with what I got :)05:53
pupnikpenguinbait, that's more of a umpc-linux approach05:55
penguinbaitisn't that what I have?05:56
pupnikyes, if you want05:56
pupnikbut for a consumer device, a limited OS makes sense too05:56
pupnikless unpredictable complications05:56
penguinbaitabsolutely05:56
penguinbaitas he said KISS05:57
penguinbaitbut getting a UMPC for $200, $400 pretty good deals05:57
pupnikbut your kde work is great05:57
pupnikyep05:57
johnxpupnik, There are trade offs. pulling in the full upstream software is easy for devs but may be complicated for users (and takes up lots of space)05:58
penguinbaitdid you see the debs?05:58
johnxmeanwhile, packing everything simple and small makes it nice for the users but really hard for devs05:58
penguinbaitspace is cheap, for large gain05:58
pupniki'm sorry i don't use the KDE, but i am a moral supporter of your work05:58
penguinbaitprinting webpages, emails,05:58
penguinbait:)05:58
pupnikthat's pretty serious advantage - the printing05:59
jottpupnik: hey, johnx just made a theoretical statement :)05:59
penguinbaitAre you an IBM'er or just did some time there?05:59
pupnikwho?05:59
penguinbaityou05:59
pupnikno06:00
pupnik(using logical OR)06:00
penguinbaitsorry wrong website06:01
GeneralAntillesHa06:01
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penguinbaityou were sitting by the fire drinking a beer?06:01
penguinbaitor was that not you?06:01
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penguinbaitmemory is failing me06:02
pupnik? :)  yes i have done that many times.  dunno who you are thinking of06:02
penguinbaithttp://pupnik.de/photos/Arnim_Roman_Tower_by_Limes_w_Psion_Netbook_sm.html06:02
pupnikoh yeah06:02
penguinbaitwhat was up with tornado night?06:02
penguinbaitlooks crazy06:03
pupniklots of beer :P06:03
penguinbaithehehe06:03
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pupnikhey it would be fun if the chess program allowed online gaming06:05
pupnikspeaking of online gaming06:06
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pupnikhttp://pupnik.de/Daimonin_Widget1.jpg06:07
pupnikno idea when it'll be finished though06:08
GeneralAntillesNever, if you keep dicking around in here. :P06:08
pupniktoo slow on the 77006:09
GeneralAntillesYour N810 ever ship?06:09
pupnikyeah two days ago06:09
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penguinbaitWe have decided to extend validity period of N810 maemo device program, new expiration date is 30.06.2008.06:11
penguinbaitthat cant be good06:11
GeneralAntillesThe N900 will be out by the time your get your N810, penguinbait. ;)06:12
GeneralAntillesDid they really send that e-mail to US residents?06:12
penguinbait102006:13
penguinbaitN139206:13
penguinbaitbait and switch06:13
penguinbaitI saw that online, on ITT06:14
jottGeneralAntilles: this mail was sent to all participants i suppose (as i got it too)06:14
penguinbaityou mean what I just pasted?06:15
jottyes..06:15
penguinbaithmm, checking mail now06:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to slap some resources and organization into Nokia.06:17
GeneralAntillesIt's just been one mess after another.06:17
GeneralAntillesThese are the people they expect peddle their wares.06:17
jottbut in the end everybody will be happy (hopefully :)06:18
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jottat least i'm happy now, as i recieved my devices yesterday :)06:20
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pupnikdeviceS?06:20
jottups..06:20
jottdevice :)06:20
rm_youheh06:20
* jott should try if the discount code works a second time *gg*06:22
rm_youlol06:22
rm_youhrm ok so the backlight thing checks device code now so it wont allow screen blanking on the n800 :)06:23
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rm_youi posted to the mailing list about my GtkMenu issues... we'll see how that goes. It may be a couple days before I see a response, if at all :/06:23
rm_youand the code is available if anyone wants it now... http://cs.trinity.edu/~acm/debs/advanced-backlight-0.3-src.tar.gz06:24
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rm_youi spent about 20 minutes cleaning it and commenting it... and then proceeded to tar over it by swapping the argument order :P so i did it again >_>06:24
jottrm_you: you need a patched kernel for this, right?06:24
rm_youyes06:24
rm_youat the moment06:24
pupnikhttp://www.worth1000.com/entries/119500/119632GLNK_w.jpg  <<< fox viewers (humor)06:25
rm_youi'm trying to figure out how to reverse engineer dsmetest as fanoush suggested... but i can only run it from within the /mnt/initfs/ chroot, and there isn't an strace available in there!! :(06:25
jottwe'll i already build my first kernel module so compiling the whole kernel would be the logical next step ;)06:25
rm_youheh, fanoush's kernel drops right in nicely06:25
rm_youhttp://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/06:26
rm_youso... any thoughts on that? I can only run dsmetest INSIDE the chroot, and i can only run strace OUTSIDE the chroot >_>06:26
dragornhttp://www.linuxgames.com/archives/991406:28
dragornso who wants to take it on? :)06:28
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penguinbaityup  got the freaking email, did only USA get the email?06:28
jottpenguinbait: no.. as i said i also got it (germany)06:28
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penguinbaitah06:29
rm_youdragorn: that would be sweet06:30
rm_youi wonder how hard it would be to compile06:30
dragornTaking a look06:30
dragornoh dear.06:30
dragornpython, tcl, and tk06:30
penguinbaitI really would have bought one by now if I was not promised two for free, I guess I am just like a kid waiting for christmas, and I am not sure what the date it?06:31
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rm_youwait, is it python???06:31
rm_youheh06:31
dragornUnix porting, optimization and TCL/Tk user interface design....06:31
dragornso it would be nontrivial06:31
johnxrm_you, it's TCL/TK06:32
rm_youunix porting??06:32
rm_you:/06:32
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johnxdragorn, it looks like it already runs on OLPC06:32
dragornjohnx: yes, a different version06:32
jotti never thought they really would release it under gpl :)06:32
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johnxright, but the source code for that is avaiable, yes?06:32
dragornthe olpc one?  not as far as I see in the article I pasted06:33
dragorn"The OLPC has an officially sanctioned and QA?ed version of SimCity that is actually called SimCity. EA wanted to have the right to approve and QA anything that was shipped with the trademarked name SimCity."06:33
rm_youi thought that was it06:33
johnxright, but would the OLPC guys even touch it if it was closed?06:33
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johnxhttp://www.olpcnews.com/content/games/simcity_on_the_olpc_xo.html06:35
Luriais there a config file for scratchbox that will 1) keep the target on armel on startup and 2)export DISPLAY=:2    ?06:35
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dragornwell it kind of runs.  not terribly well.  Like the main map doesn't render.06:35
johnxLuria, mine always remembers the last system I was on06:36
Luriahuh, mine didnt :-/06:36
johnxand you can export DISPLAY=:2 in your .bashrc inside scratchbox06:36
rm_youLuria: mine remembers too :/06:36
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Luriaall right, well i'll quit and startup06:36
rm_youdragorn: you get it to run? mine is having issues on compile06:37
Luriata06:37
dragornrm_you: it runs.  Just not playably.06:37
rm_youdragorn: :(06:37
jottmaybe s/micropolis/SimCity/g will make it work ;>06:38
rm_youlol06:38
jott(i bet they did it the otherway around ;-)06:38
dragornwish I had the time to think about porting it06:39
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jottdragorn: what yacc do you have? mine seems to fail on build06:40
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dragornwhatever the latest is...06:41
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dragorn1.9.106:41
zetheroodoes the N800 have 3G cpabilities?06:41
GeneralAntillesHa06:41
GeneralAntillesDo you see a SIM card slot? :P06:42
GeneralAntillesJust get yourself a good phone to tether to.06:42
dragornjohnx: you're right, btw, this is somehow tied to the olpc build06:42
zetheroooh ... I thought 3G is for Internet06:42
GeneralAntilles3G is like EDGE and GPRS06:42
GeneralAntillesIt's for cellular data.06:42
rm_youwell, *simply* put... "it is for the internet" ... via cell06:43
zetheroooh ok06:43
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: what phone do you have? i'm tempted by the n9506:44
GeneralAntillesSamsung SGH-A71706:44
GeneralAntillesCheap and small06:44
rm_youor maybe i will wait until Android devices come out to upgrade my phone06:45
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GeneralAntillesN95 seems like overkill for a tethering phone.06:45
rm_youjust a year or two on that, eh?06:45
rm_youlol so? i need a phone, too :P06:45
GeneralAntillesThen get something small and cheap. :P06:45
rm_youwell, my *current* phone would tether fine...06:45
GeneralAntillesNot huge and $60006:45
rm_youmotorola v36006:45
GeneralAntillesMotos suck06:46
rm_youi love mine <_<06:46
rm_youwhat makes you say that they suck>06:46
rm_you?06:46
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GeneralAntillesBecause they do. :P06:46
GeneralAntillesI had some decent ones when I was with Nextel06:46
rm_youmy v360 is the best phone i've ever had >_>06:47
GeneralAntillesmy parents have had a string of T-Mobile and AT&T Motos and they were all bad.06:47
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* qnr-lt say's their PS connectors suck, at least... likes Motorola transceivers and Motorola chips though06:47
rm_youi use TMobile06:47
qnr-lter. says06:47
GeneralAntillesBetter change if you want 3g06:47
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rm_youPS connectors?06:47
rm_you>_>06:47
qnr-ltconnectors for thier power supplies06:47
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rm_you...06:48
rm_youah06:48
qnr-lttoo shallow, tends to deform shape and the the connectors don't come in contact after a while06:48
GeneralAntillesI like my Samsung06:49
GeneralAntilleseverybody I know likes their Samsungs.06:49
rm_youwould that explain why my phone reboots when i bump it too hard? :P06:49
GeneralAntillesNokias are good, too.06:49
GeneralAntillesI just prefer clamshells.06:49
rm_you... cause it does06:49
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GeneralAntillesand it's the best phone you've ever had? <_<06:49
rm_youyes06:49
rm_youi hated my samsung06:49
GeneralAntillesYou've had some pretty terrible phones.06:49
rm_youmostly the software06:49
rm_youthe moto software is awesome06:49
dragornmy moto crashed all the time06:50
rm_youit has like, zero limitations on what it lets me do06:50
GeneralAntillesI kinda experienced exactly the opposite.06:50
GeneralAntillesMoto software drives me nuts.06:50
dragornrm_you: you must not have verizon :P06:50
GeneralAntillesReally, though, I only use my phone as a phone (well, and a modem).06:50
rm_youdragorn: tmobile :P they are very non-interference06:50
rm_youGeneralAntilles: what does your data plan cost you?06:51
GeneralAntilles$20/mo06:51
rm_youunlimited?06:51
dragornhowever, up where I am, they're useless06:51
GeneralAntillesit's not technically a tethering plan06:51
GeneralAntillesbut I've had it since last spring and haven't had any problems.06:51
rm_youunlimited?06:51
GeneralAntillesSupposedly06:51
rm_you>_>06:51
rm_youwhat plan *is* it?06:51
GeneralAntillesOf course that's not actually true06:51
* qnr-lt only turns on the phone every 90 days to find out his phone number so he can add more airtime :)06:51
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rm_youwho's your carrier?06:51
GeneralAntillesMediaMAX 200 is what Cingular called it.06:51
rm_youhrm06:52
rm_youi need to call tmobile and find out how much a data plan would cost06:52
GeneralAntillesThey only offer EDGE06:52
johnxIs there really no .deb for xserver-xomap?06:52
GeneralAntilleswhich is sloooow06:52
rm_you<_<06:52
rm_youswitching carriers would be... annoying06:52
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rm_youi wonder if i'm still on contract06:53
johnxgrrr...I should reflash and switch to running root on SD06:55
johnxI really wish it was actually legal for someone to just put up a pristine filesystem image from right after a reflash+firstboot06:55
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Vulc|NotHere[23:55:44] <johnx> I really wish it was actually legal for someone to just put up a pristine filesystem image from right after a reflash+firstboot -- to unlock a phone from a carrier? I think its allowed now06:58
Vulc|NotHerethere was a bill passed awhile ago06:58
johnxVulc|NotHere, sorry I was actually talking about an N80006:58
Vulc|NotHereAh, sorry.  I am tired, and was looking up and reading about cellphones before that06:59
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Vulc|NotHereI also completely misread what you said06:59
johnxno problem...I kind of just wedged it into a pre-existing conversation without introduction :)06:59
dospodsoooo wats every1 talking bout07:00
johnxThey're talking about phones07:00
johnxI'm talking about running the root fs of my N800 off of an SD card instead of the builtin flash07:01
johnx...so I can start trying to hack a proper debian system up07:01
johnxwithout hosing my device when I mess up the dependencies07:01
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dospodi wanna see someone put in a freebsd kernel on the n800 with maemo07:02
johnxis there an arm port of freebsd?07:02
dospodmaybe07:02
dospodif not netbsd might have one07:03
johnxthey do07:03
johnxas well as openbsd07:03
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johnxI doubt they have all the device drivers they need to be actually useful though07:03
dospodi think having bash as default would be helpful also07:04
johnxso, get your device booting off of mmc/sd and test it :)07:04
dospodi might be adventurous sunday to do it07:05
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dospodanybody else agree havving maemo, moblin, and ubuntu mobile diffrent is dumb07:07
dospodthey all run hildon, and say app compatibility between them is good07:07
Luriawhats moblin?07:08
johnxmaemo is cut down to fit in 130MB of flash, moblin is intel's official thing for bigger/faster systems07:08
dospodintels umpc platform07:08
johnxand ubuntu mobile is intel's thing07:08
johnxI think there is too much confict of interest to make it work well07:09
dospodi still think they should merge and just have diffrent releases for diffrent products07:09
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johnxit might be nice, but I'm sure it will never happen07:10
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johnxgah...I mispoke a couple lines up07:11
Luriaah07:11
johnxmoblin is of course intel's thing...not ubuntu mobile07:11
Luriaright, i understood07:11
dospodi think i feel too restricted with just one os choice for my tablet07:11
Luriayeah07:11
Luriawheres bsd for IT07:11
dospodand the ui restrictment kinda kills me07:12
Luriaor armel pen windows07:12
Luriathat would rock.07:12
dospodwould be cool to have a choice of ui layout07:12
johnxwishes aside...on a realistic note debian has a great armel port07:12
dospodi thought maemo was debian based07:13
johnxit is, but it's a really hacked down debian07:13
johnxit uses busybox instead of the normal GNU stuff and normal debian armel packages probably won't install07:13
dospodi guesd im used to more freedom with linux07:13
johnxyou *do* have freedom...you just have to do a little work07:14
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johnxright now, even as we speak I'm trying to get the maemo stuff to run in a full debian system07:14
dospodits alot for newbies07:14
johnxfreedom isn't free07:14
dospodi like the one window idea for hildon07:15
johnxthe "freedom" in Linux doesn't mean getting everything handed to you on a silver platter, it means that you can change things if you want to07:15
dospodi just dont like the app menu placement at times07:15
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johnxwell, maemo is pretty much a fixed-layout sort of thing07:17
jottjohnx: please keep me posted, i'm also very interested in a debian compatible build setup - i'll do some more work in getting a debian comaptible setup within scratchbox so we'll see if both approaches will be any good :) -- but i'm afk now07:17
dospodbut i could do something if i wanted07:17
johnxjott, alright07:18
rm_youjohnx: i would work on that too if i had the first idea how to go about it07:19
rm_youi think you have way more experience in that field, so i'll just leave you to it07:19
johnxheh07:19
rm_youbut i'll be somewhat interested as well07:19
rm_you*seeing as how you already did it for your zaurus >_>07:20
johnxon the zaurus it was comparitively easy07:20
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johnxright now I'm going to get my N800 to boot from SD, make a fresh copy of the 2008OS and at least get a debian chroot going07:21
dospodwell im out, i got school tommorow07:21
dospodcya07:21
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johnx'later dolske07:21
johnxgrr...sorry, I meant dospod07:21
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rm_youso... no one had any thoughts on my strace/dsmetest dilemma?07:22
johnxthis is in scratchbox?07:23
rm_youon the device07:23
johnxyou want to strace it on the device, right?07:23
rm_youyes07:23
johnxand it doesn't work, why?07:23
rm_youstrace is installed on the device...07:23
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rm_youbut to run dsmetest, i have to chroot into /mnt/initfs/07:23
rm_youwhich doesn't have strace >_>07:23
ds3anyone got a copy of roadmap compiled for OS2007 (https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=536&release_id=1342 <-- that but compiled for OS2007); there appears to used to be a copy at http://daveblank.com/n800/roadmap_1.1.0-1_armel.deb but that's gone07:23
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ds3rm_you: strace chroot /mnt/initfs /usr/bin/XYZ07:24
rm_youlol i was just wondering if i could do that07:24
Luriadid anyone manage to make a deb of abiword for chinook?07:25
Mouseyanyone got freeciv working in OS2008?07:25
rm_youthanks07:25
sibbejust remember to use strace -f07:25
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sibbe..and some other forking related switches07:25
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sibbe-ff, -o something, ...07:26
ds3that shouldn't fork07:26
ds3it should just be a series of exec's07:26
sibbewell but the dsme thingie might something07:27
sibbe+do07:27
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ds3ah07:27
rm_youhrm ok i think i got an strace...07:27
rm_youhttp://pastebin.ca/85042607:28
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johnxit's times like these when I wish I had a real physical console of some sort for the N80007:28
ds3no one know of a OS2007 binary of roadmap?07:28
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sibbe"brightness reqyest sent!\n" reqyest :)07:29
rm_youlol yeah07:29
rm_youit has a typo ^_^07:29
rm_youwrite(3, "\f\0\0\0\211\2\0\0d\0\0\0", 12) = 1207:30
rm_youcould that be it writing the value to whatever is file pointer 3?07:30
ds3rm_you: does dsmetest exit or does it loop continously?07:31
rm_youit exits07:31
rm_youit just runs, does its thing, and exits07:31
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sibbedo you have ldd? i wonder if that libdsme.so links to anything else07:32
Tama-rroHi, first time here. I will lurk for a while and see if I can help :)07:32
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LuriaTama-rro, very conscientious.07:33
johnxhi Tama-rro :)07:33
Tama-rroLol Luria, ciao Johnx07:34
rm_youhttp://pastebin.ca/850429 is correct... the other one had a duplicated section07:34
rm_youand the only lines that matter are between 38 and 76, right?07:35
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Luriawhats a good svn client?07:42
Luria(for debian etch)07:42
rm_youi use esvn >_>07:43
rm_youi don't like it very much... but it's the best i've seen07:44
blahdeblahLuria: I use Eclipse with subclipse plugin.  :-)07:44
Luriawell, that's a hearty recommendation07:44
Luriano eclipse.07:45
Luria:-)07:45
Luriai tried to like eclipse07:45
rm_youwtf >_>07:45
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Luriabut its so damn slow07:45
rm_youi try to run "ldd" or "/usr/bin/ldd" and it says "-sh: ldd: not found"07:46
rm_youbut i can SEE the file there07:46
rm_you>_<07:46
rm_youit keeps doing that to me on all kinds of other programs too07:46
rm_youthis is on the n80007:46
Tama-rroPATH NOT SETUP CORRECTLY?07:46
johnxis it executable? are you getting I/O errors? is it a link to something dead?07:47
Tama-rroops, sorry for caps07:47
ds3try the one in /mnt/initfs/usr/bin/ldd07:47
rm_youNezumi:/usr/bin# ls -l ldd07:47
rm_you-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         5567 Sep  7 02:47 ldd07:47
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Luriaso, if you want a laught... i tried installing some stuff from source last night... no gcc07:47
rm_yousame, not found07:47
Luriaso, apt-get install build-essential, right?07:48
rm_youeven though i am trying to run it as ./ldd07:48
Luriabut it kept hanging07:48
rm_youit's right there, i can see it07:48
ds3rm_you: what about "chroot /mnt/initfs /usr/bin/ldd"?07:48
Luriai was doing this over a nx connection07:48
ds3seem to recall there was something funny about getting ldd to work07:48
johnxrm_you, are you getting something weird out of dmesg?07:48
Lurianow, i can install some of the packages07:48
rm_youchroot: cannot execute /usr/bin/ldd: No such file or directory07:48
Tama-rrosh /usr/bin/ldd works for me07:49
rm_youjohnx: nope07:49
ds3odd07:49
rm_youIT IS RIGHT THERE07:49
rm_youI SEE IT >_<07:49
Luriabut not others. it just sat there not downloading.07:49
Tama-rrobut /usr/bin/ldd says 'not found'07:49
rm_youbut it *is* there07:49
Luriaturns out, sources.list still had a reference to the install cd.07:49
sibberun it with libc, eg. /lib/libc.so.something /usr/bin/ldd07:49
Luriaoops.07:50
sibbe(the usual way of getting around noexec stuff)07:50
rm_youAH!07:50
rm_youI see07:50
ds3do this -07:50
rm_youldd is a bash script >_<07:50
rm_youno bash on n80007:50
rm_youwtf07:50
Lurian800 runs ash/busybox07:51
ds3"LD_DEBUG=all /usr/lib/libdsme.so"07:51
sibbeahh.. didn't remember that07:51
Luriaso that would be a problem07:51
ds3it is a little verbose but should give you the info07:51
Tama-rroif you go : #sh /usr/bin/ldd it will run07:51
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rm_youds3: it isn't executable07:55
rm_youand it just segfaults if i try to make it so :/07:55
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ds3oh :(07:59
rm_youwell, i managed to get ldd into the chroot and it runs07:59
rm_yousort of07:59
rm_youit will output stuff on --help07:59
rm_youbut if i try like... ldd $somefile07:59
rm_youit just exits and prints nothing07:59
ds3i am tempted to flash to OS2008 on an N800.. is that advisable?08:00
rm_you yes08:00
rm_youthats what i'm running08:00
ds3so there is enough critical mass of ported software?08:00
rm_youyou really should... all the development work is moving to chinook08:00
rm_youeverything i need is there.08:00
rm_youjohnx: thoughts?08:01
ds3just worried I will be missing software... got the unit for xmas and it is in a state I almost like it08:01
rm_youheh08:01
rm_youwell, i had the device customized for like 3 months before i flashed08:01
rm_youso it took me like... 2 days to get it all back to normal08:01
Lurianot worth staying on os200708:02
ds3is it just a matter of ./flasher-static -F RX.....bin -f?08:02
johnxrm_you, it's a bash script...so it's probably expecting something that it can't find in initfs08:02
Luriaonly thing missing is abiword...08:02
rm_youjohnx: i was thinking more like, your opinion on flashing to 2008 :P08:02
Tama-rroldd may be using something bash-specific :(08:02
ds3or do I need to unpack it and do it one by one from Linux?08:02
johnxflash to 2008OS unless you really need something 2007 specific08:02
johnxds3, so far not on 2008: a2dp, abiword and evince08:03
rm_youa2dp as much as 2007 >_> better actually08:03
ds3a2dp is the only one I care about08:03
johnxwell, it's kinda there08:04
ds3does HSP work?08:04
rm_youit's what john and i are foxusing on08:04
rm_you*focusing08:04
johnxHSP works out-of-the-box08:04
ds3yeah, I saw your thread on IIT08:04
ds3Oh nice08:04
rm_youall dev for a2dp has moved to 2008 anyway08:04
ds3what about some player that can do both OGG and MP3 in the same playlist?08:04
johnxI'm not happy with how well it works, but it really does work about as good as 2007OS08:04
rm_youi dont think many people are interesting in developing for an outdated platform >_>08:04
rm_youds3: lardman has an almost working DSP port of tremor, IIRC08:05
johnxanyways, I will be out for a while08:05
* johnx lurks08:05
rm_youjohnx: ?08:05
rm_youkk08:05
ds3so everything is on the "verge" of working ?08:05
rm_youeverything fairly works08:05
rm_youa2dp works better than 2007, IMO08:05
ds3rm_you: what about flashing? do I just pass the bin file to flasher with the -f option? or is there more to it?08:06
rm_youcause i can watch videos with a2dp perfectly... and on 2007 that was totally not doable08:06
rm_youi think thats it08:06
ds3I've done kernel/initrd seperately08:06
rm_youcheck the maemo wiki or something :/08:06
ds3Okay08:06
rm_youi did it with the windoze flasher08:06
ds3no windoze machines handy08:06
rm_youyeah, i have one for work08:06
ds3the ones I have are not allowed on the network for security reasons.08:06
rm_youheh08:06
johnxjust use flasher -r bleh.bin -f -R08:06
johnxthat's IIRC08:06
* johnx is really away now08:06
ds3thanks08:07
rm_youds3: that reminds me, i really want to set up my own one of these networks: http://xkcd.com/350/ :P08:07
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ds3heh08:08
ds3it'll be a good excuse to avoid setting up asterisk so I can try out SIP ;)08:09
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hachidoes anyone have good luck with modest and an imap inbox of about 5k emails?08:44
Luriai dont have luck with 60008:47
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Luriago with claws, i would think08:47
PanzerboyMorning08:48
Tama-rroModest crashes too often for me08:48
Tama-rromorning PanzerBoy08:48
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* Panzerboy is ircing from his N810 08:48
Panzerboy:-)08:49
PanzerboyYeah, modest isn't quite there yet imho08:49
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Tama-rroand claws has fugly UI ;_;08:51
rm_youyeah, modest crashes on my inbox of 2k emails08:51
rm_youi have to use claws :/08:51
PanzerboyThe funny thing with modest is that, even though i've setup 2 accounts in it, i only see one08:52
PanzerboyBut it notifies me if i get mail on the second08:53
PanzerboySo at the moment i am using gmail with the browser08:53
PanzerboyNot very nice08:54
rm_youyeah08:54
rm_youit refused to get email from my other account as well :/08:55
rm_youerr, rather, same symptom08:55
PanzerboyBut it'll get better, it's only a matter of time08:55
rm_youyeah08:56
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Tama-rroI think modest displays only one acount at a time08:56
Tama-rroyou have to switch from one to the other manually08:56
PanzerboyHow?08:57
Tama-rroit will download emails from both though08:57
Tama-rroit's somewhere in the menu >.< I removed it after 2 hours so I do not rememeber08:57
Tama-rromaybe under 'view'08:57
PanzerboyJust make the 2nd default, or?08:57
Tama-rronope, I think you can switch08:58
hachiwhat's claws?08:58
Tama-rroI remember going: "ahhhhh"08:58
PanzerboyOk, i'll give it another try :-)08:58
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PanzerboyBrb08:58
Tama-rro"claws' is an email client08:58
hachialso, I'm trying to install gnokii, which depends on adduser, which doesn't appear to be available08:58
hachianyone know what the deal is there?08:58
Tama-rroyou want phonelink right?08:59
Tama-rrognokii will not install but libgnokii is already there09:00
hachiI'm trying to get GPRS working with my moto slvr (works fine from my debian linux laptop)09:00
hachithought maybe I could use gnokii to debug some of it09:01
hachireally shooting in the dark09:01
Tama-rroI see09:01
Tama-rroI have GPRS working on my V309:01
Tama-rroit worked at the first try, so I don't really know how to help09:01
GeneralAntillesIsn't the left-hand bar on Modest where you select the account?09:01
hachiwhat's a V3?09:02
Tama-rromoto RAZR V309:02
PanzerboyThere i see only account1 and the mail local on N81009:02
hachiGeneralAntilles: it shows my accounts and all the imap folders in my accounts09:02
GeneralAntillesThe early preview betas were actually more stable for me for some reason.09:03
GeneralAntillesIt's gonna be good once they finish it up, though.09:03
PanzerboyYeah09:03
Tama-rroI am reinstalling it09:04
Tama-rrojust to check Iiiiiiiif I remember correctly09:04
PanzerboyCool09:04
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ds3okay commited to OS2008 now09:05
Tama-rroyes it's under 'view'09:05
jalenPanzerboy, how are you IRCing from your n8x0? SSH, or an actual client?09:05
Tama-rroat the bottom you can select one of your many accounts09:05
hachiI'm on IRC via ssh/screen/irssi09:06
GeneralAntillesxchat, built-in, Pidgin09:06
Tama-rrojalen he probably installed the rtcomm update for OS200809:06
PanzerboyJalen: from pidgin09:06
Tama-rroah ok09:06
jalenlol - ok, got a few answers there, heh09:06
hachiwait, rtcomm... is that related to bluetooth serial?09:06
Tama-rroI am irc-ing from the builtin client09:06
PanzerboyI have the rtcomm update but pidgin is cooler09:06
PanzerboySee u guys latter, gotta go to work09:07
Tama-rrono hachi, I think it is the name for the OS2008 communication subsys09:07
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Tama-rro(it confused me too the first time I saw it)09:07
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GeneralAntillesrtcomm irc is a little underfeatured09:13
GeneralAntillesPidgin is just lame09:13
GeneralAntillesxchat is the way to go.09:13
rm_youds3: mentally committed? or the flasher is going? :P09:14
Tama-rrois there an os2008 version? :P09:14
rm_youyes09:14
Jalen2beta, but yeah09:14
GeneralAntillesxchat chinook skyhusker09:14
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GeneralAntillesshould pull it up for you on google09:14
GeneralAntillesJalen2, it's hardly beta09:15
GeneralAntillesIt's never crashed on me. ;)09:15
Jalen2ok, so just not added to the repos yet09:15
Jalen2the deb on his site is still listed as beta09:15
GeneralAntilleshttp://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/09:16
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Tama-rroyep, I found it but thanks :)09:16
JalenI definetly need a stowaway now :)09:17
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hachido any of the mail clients on maemo support offline operation?09:23
hachioffline imap09:23
hachimodest appears not to... and just crashed09:24
PanzerboyYeah, i would also like that09:24
PanzerboyI am not connected all the time unfortunately09:25
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PanzerboyI suppose modest will ... Some day09:25
hachiand claws doesn't let me do multiple accounts at the same time09:25
PanzerboyLaters guys09:25
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cgreerhas anybody tried KDE for the internet tablet?09:29
ds3rm_you: flasher done. configuring unit now09:29
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rm_you:P09:29
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ds3hmm the default repositories don't include openssh or dropbear :(09:31
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GeneralAntillesDo too.09:32
GeneralAntillesopenssh, anyway.09:32
GeneralAntillesAt least they DID.09:32
GeneralAntillesextras09:32
ds3let me look again09:32
ds3nope, not in the browse installable apps09:33
GeneralAntillesHmm09:36
GeneralAntillesYou have Extras enabled, right?09:37
ds3found out why09:37
GeneralAntillesMaybe it's in bora extras.09:37
GeneralAntillesI know I installed it right after I installed OS2008, though.09:37
ds3extras is listed in the catalogs but it is disabled by default unlike OS2007 where it is not listed and I have to add it09:37
GeneralAntillesYou didn't have Extras enabled. :P09:37
ds3didn't expect them to provide repositories that aren't enabled!09:38
GeneralAntillesHehe09:38
rm_you:P09:38
GeneralAntillesWorst part, though09:38
GeneralAntillesis that it'll come disabled even if you restore from backup09:38
GeneralAntillesso you have to make sure to re-enable it before restoring applications. <_<09:38
ds3oh that sucks09:38
rm_youi thought restoring a backup just BROKE 2008 anyway09:39
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ds3map download is slow09:39
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, no, certain 2007 backups messed things up.09:45
GeneralAntillesLike having the browse engine set to Opera and whatnot.09:45
GeneralAntillesfwiw, my backup was actually from the second release of OS2007, and it worked fine.09:46
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rm_youhrm09:47
ds3i'm playing it safe and not doing a restore... might unzip and scp things back over though09:47
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Cptnodegard¨:(10:19
Cptnodegardplay.com price is up10:19
hachianyone built git or svn packages for maemo yet?10:20
timelyhachi: see gronmayer in topic?10:23
rm_youtimely: do you know how that is pronounced?10:25
rm_youtimely: i've been curious :P10:25
timelynot formally10:26
rm_youGron Mayer? G. Ron Mayer?10:26
rm_younot even close? :P10:26
rm_youlol10:26
timelyhe's german10:26
rm_youis it his name?10:26
timelyhttp://www.gronmayer.com/gronmayer/kontakt.html10:27
hachitimely: yeah... there's no matches there, that's why I was asking10:27
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timelyhachi: you want to use git/svn on a device?10:28
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hachiyup10:28
timelywhy?10:28
sibbe...why not? :)10:28
hachicause I'd love to keep copies of my work on it, and be able to pull trunk10:28
timelyit's his last name10:29
* timely has his first name in an email10:29
scripthachi: i'm building svn ...10:29
hachimostly so when I'm sitting at lunch and talking to other engineers about stuff, I can have the code right there10:29
scripthachi: i used to do it for itos2006 .. but takes some time now10:29
script.. and i have no time ;)10:29
timelyhachi: ssh+screen10:29
hachiI... need to set up a build env for this10:29
hachitimely: that assumes I have a connection10:29
hachiand since I can't get GPRS working with my phone... and nobody has a clue how to debug it. I'm stuck10:30
timelyhachi: did you file a bug in bugs.maemo.org for your phone?10:30
timelyconnectivity:dun or something10:30
timelythere's a nice guy who will help10:30
hachino, I didn't know there was a bug tracker :\10:31
timelyhttp://browser.garage.maemo.org/news/8/10:31
timelyread about it ^10:31
timelynote that the post is old, you thankfully don10:32
timelyt need to reorganize bug trackers very often10:33
timelyideally once is enough :)10:33
hachiis there more than one version of OS2008?10:33
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timelyonly 410:33
timely(at last count)10:33
hachihow do you find those? I see that page only talks about 06 and 0710:33
timelysee Would you give an approximate mapping? in 8/ ?10:34
timelythat general approach would let you find them10:34
timely'course it requires having a MAC address, but that's not too hard since itt and cnet explain howto :)10:34
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hachiwhat the devil are you saying?10:35
timelywell, i'm sick and would rather be sleeping10:35
hachiapproximate mapping? 8/?10:35
timelyand i'm generally cryptic10:35
timelythe url i pasted that ends in 8/10:35
hachiI'm just trying to find the software updates for this10:35
hachithe OS updates10:35
hachinot the apt updates10:35
hachiI can't figure out who controls that, is it maemo?10:36
timelyread the url i pasted, especially the section i indicated10:36
hachino... they appear to be on nokia.com10:36
hachiI am reading it10:36
timelynote that maemo isn't really an entity in a sense of able to control10:36
hachioh, I'm sorry... it talks about an 80010:37
hachiwhich I have an 81010:37
hachiso that's why I'm asking you again10:37
timelysame general idea10:37
timelyuse the n800 url and change it for n810 :)10:38
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Panzerboyaloha10:39
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GeneralAntillesCustom boot images are tasty.10:40
GeneralAntillesFinally rid of those creepy hands.10:40
timely?10:40
GeneralAntilleshttp://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1431010:41
timelyoh, you're not a connecting people fan?10:41
GeneralAntillesUsing a maemo/maemo thing instead of a nokia/nokia-hands thing.10:41
GeneralAntillesI'm anti-social. :P10:41
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rm_youlol sweet10:42
rm_youi hate those hands too :P10:42
GeneralAntillesThere's an svg of the maemo logo on the website if you want to roll your own.10:43
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onionbah, boot images suck.. what I'd like to have is the normal linux kernel messages10:44
hachinokia.com says to go to maemo.org for flashing my device with linux... since I don't have windows that's my only choice10:45
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hachimaemo.org 2008 image is older than the one on my device though10:45
timelyhachi: use maemo.org to get flasher310:45
timelyuse nokia.com to get the image10:45
GeneralAntillesonion, I could go for that, too.10:46
timelyand if there's something wrong in the instructions, send feedback10:46
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GeneralAntillesBut the idea was shot down pretty hard last time I brought it up. ;)10:46
hachiI'm just having a hard time finding anything on nokia's site... if I go to the 810 page and then try to get to software, I end up back in the general area10:46
timelyhttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php10:46
timelyhachi: send feedback to nokia.com complaining10:47
timelythe only way i know to do that is nokia care (see 8/ again)10:47
JaffaMorning, all10:47
GeneralAntilleshttp://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php10:47
GeneralAntillesfor the flasher10:47
timelyGeneralAntilles: why have i *never* seen that url?10:47
GeneralAntillesBecause you don't get around enough?10:48
GeneralAntillesDunno10:48
timelywhere's OS X - x86?10:48
GeneralAntillesThere's a bug.10:48
hachiare there changelogs for the various versions of OS2008? that's why I'm trying to navigate to this stuff myself10:48
hachiI want to read the information available10:48
GeneralAntillesWorks well enough under Rosetta from what I hear.10:48
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timelyhachi: no10:49
JaffaPorting 0xFFFF to OS X/x86 should be possible, too10:49
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timelyhachi: the best you have is...10:49
timelyhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/find?string=debian/changelog10:50
timelythen look for things whose datestamps are after the original release10:50
timelyif you're clever you can probably make a search w/in tha set10:50
GeneralAntillesThere's a package table on maemo.org for 2007 versus 2008.10:50
timelyGeneralAntilles: he asked for various 200810:50
timelywhich means deltas10:50
timelythe first 18=>19 thing was a kernel only fix10:51
timelyit changed none of the source packages that i typically xref10:51
timelythe next was the n800 beta10:51
timelyand then there was the current release10:51
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: I would rather see kernel messages too :/10:52
GeneralAntillesSeems like there must be a way to do it.10:54
timelyhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/os2008/search?string=Dec 2007&find=debian/changelog10:54
timelyshould probably work10:54
timelyhrm, it doesn't10:55
timelywell, it "kinda works, but everyone else sucks"10:55
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timelyi think the latest release also includes some new "apps"10:58
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timelyoh, right, the xref only covers the open source components, so maybe it's accurate :)10:58
timelyfwiw, writing useful changelogs is really time consuming10:58
timelyit cost me weeks worth of time10:58
timelyhttp://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/news/9/index.html10:59
* timely decides garage is broken and gives out xref urls instead10:59
timelyGeneralAntilles / Jaffa, my favorite from 9/11:01
timely"Restoring a backup from MicroB in OS2007 into an OS2008 device will result in a browser that crashes instead of just looping infinitely (please don't ask why this is considered a feature). "11:01
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* timely sighs11:01
* timely should go off and shoot the reporters who didn't read the release notes but filed a bug complaining that the browser crashed11:02
GeneralAntillesHa11:02
timelyi spent all that time writing detailed release notes, you'd think they'd do me the courtesy of reading them11:03
GeneralAntillesI'm still in favor of requiring taser neck-bands for internet use.11:03
Jaffa:)11:03
timelywe could ship everyone taser mp3 players11:03
timelythat got announced at CES earlier this week11:03
GeneralAntillesOr maybe just for bugzilla and itt accounts.11:03
timelyjust have to rewrite it so that it's localized11:03
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timelys/write/wire/11:04
infobottimely meant: just have to rewire it so that it's localized11:04
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timely2398 is the bug i'm thinking of...11:05
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GeneralAntillesWhat's with MicroB's slow startup time in OS2008 50-2?11:05
johnxhachi, changelogs if you still want them : http://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/first_official_os2008_update.html                                                                                                                          tr11:05
GeneralAntillesThat something I should blame on my backup?11:05
* timely shrugs11:05
timelyjohnx: that's v. 2007, not v. 2008-orig11:06
timelyoh11:06
GeneralAntillesIt's about 10-12 seconds from tap to the start of loading the homepage.11:06
timelyactually it is11:06
timelybut the file names suck11:07
oniondoes the media player use playbin these days ?11:07
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johnxtimeless, :)11:08
timelyjohnx: are hildon-theme-alpha and hildon-theme-gamma really in the device?11:08
johnxtimely, I can check in a second11:08
johnxthey have packages11:09
Lahiruhi.. I'm gonna have a 4GB SDHC as mmc1 and 1GB MicroSD as mmc2 will tht combination supports N800 with OS2008?11:09
timelysure11:09
johnxare they something cool I should install or ugly betas I should avoid? :P11:10
timelyjohnx: no clue11:10
Veggenjohnx: I tend to install anything that looks fun ;)11:10
timelyfrom memory and experience w/ prior releases and prereleases, the skins that got dropped earlier had serious glitches11:10
timelypresumably if they shipped them the obvious glitches are gone11:10
johnxoh, guess it's installed ... but not selectable11:11
timelysomething like say black text on black background :)11:11
johnxalso, not in the repo11:11
timelyclever11:11
timelyum... wanna try to force it? :)11:11
Lahiru4GB SDHC + 1GB micro will be fine right? :)11:11
GeneralAntillesYes, Lahiru.11:11
johnxnever mind, they just have different names in theme selector11:11
timelyLahiru: w/ proper extenders11:11
johnxalpha = felicia11:11
Lahiruthanks GeneralAntilles11:12
* timely remembers some themes actually swapping names in the past11:12
GeneralAntillesLike timely says, just make sure you have an adaptor for the micro.11:12
Lahirutimely: w/proper?11:12
johnxafk for a bit11:12
Lahiruyes I'm using 1GB micro as the internal card11:13
timelythat's cute, you file a bug against "theme cupidity" and all of a sudden "theme cupidity" is some other theme for which you filed other bugs11:13
Lahiruwhat I want is add new SDHC as the external card inorder to install KDE :D11:13
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LahiruThanks guys11:14
GeneralAntillesNokia shoulda put two microsd cards into the N810 instead of a single mini11:14
GeneralAntillesThe N900 should have 4 microSD slots.11:14
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timelysleep()11:14
keesjGeneralAntilles: why not some huge  solid state disk?11:15
GeneralAntillesPower usage?11:15
keesjinterrupt()11:15
GeneralAntillesSpace?11:15
GeneralAntillesCost?11:15
hachiwhy the devil would you need 4 slots?11:15
GeneralAntillesSSD is kinda pointless for these devices anyway.11:15
GeneralAntillesBetter off just soldering the flash straight to the board.11:15
GeneralAntilleshachi, storage of course!11:15
LahiruI thought the maximum capacity tht I can hv is 2GB thts y I got confused :)11:16
GeneralAntillesThat's for the SD spec, Lahiru.11:16
GeneralAntillesand that's on a single card.11:16
keesjthe n900 should be sold with a hacker kit just like openmoko (jtag and other fun stuff)11:16
LahiruGeneralAntilles: cool :)11:17
GeneralAntillesOMAP3430 is gonna be fun.11:17
keesjI really wonder how I will recover from my broken n81011:17
keesj(and if)11:17
hachiI have an openmoko here too11:17
hachithe n810 is just a little (lot) more mature11:18
keesjhachi: I loved the "Some assembly required" papper11:18
keesjhachi: openmoko is perhaps even longer term. I was really disapointed bye the phone11:19
hachithe neo consistently falls short on goals11:19
GeneralAntillesIt's the opposite of a consumer device right now.11:19
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keesjbut the documentation and tools they use is really great. I have learned a lot from it11:19
hachitheir built environment is pretty mature too11:20
GeneralAntillesProbably somewhat comparable to Nokia releasing 770 prototypes.11:20
b0unc3good morning11:20
Cptnodegarddoes anyone know how to filter rss results?11:20
hachiI haven't given maemo's build env a shot yet :\11:20
Cptnodegardwith the os2008 built in reader11:20
hachiI'm offloading the filter work to a plagger machine11:21
keesjGeneralAntilles: it did not leave me the same taste. The 770 was legendary for me.11:22
GeneralAntilles[4:20am] <GeneralAntilles>Probably somewhat comparable to Nokia releasing 770 _prototypes_.11:22
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hachidid the 770 get released many months late? (I don't know at all, so this isn't sarcasm)11:23
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GeneralAntillesIt was delayed about 4-5 months.11:23
hachiouch11:23
hachifrom what I read about the 810, it was silence till the day it came out11:24
GeneralAntillesSorta11:24
GeneralAntillesWe had the FCC docs.11:24
GeneralAntillesN800 was REALLY unexpected.11:24
keesjyep11:25
GeneralAntillesI was expecting (well, hoping, mostly) a real upgrade with the N810.11:25
keesjThere where the prototype foto's. and the rumours11:25
hachinow... time to figure out what's wrong with the internal xmpp client and my jabber server11:25
hachiGeneralAntilles: I opted to get the n810 because it's smaller by just enough... though I've heard some people say the 800 is better now11:26
GeneralAntillesThe minisd kills it for me.11:27
GeneralAntillesPlus the stupid d-pad location.11:27
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hachiwhat does the 800 have?11:27
hachisdmicro?11:27
GeneralAntillesdual SDHC11:27
hachioh11:27
hachiwell... ooops11:27
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hachimaybe I'll buy one of those next week11:27
GeneralAntillesI'll be able to drop 64gb in there and you'll still be stuck with 18GB. ;)11:27
hachiI thought this thing topped out at 10GB11:28
GeneralAntillesWith current cards.11:28
GeneralAntilles16GB miniSD cards are coming.11:28
hachiahh11:28
GeneralAntillesDual card slots was genius.11:28
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hachimy only gripe is the location of the unlock switch11:29
hachiwhich is behind the slide point11:29
hachiso the display locks on me after a few minutes... and then I can't unlock it because I have fat fingers or something (as I happen to be a walking stickman)11:30
GeneralAntillesI want soft power-off back.11:30
hachiI like mine being on all the time11:31
hachiI'm using it as an IM system while in the office11:31
GeneralAntillesSoft power-off is basically locking, but without the hassle of a two-finger procedure.11:32
GeneralAntillesYou can also set it up to drop in and out of offline mode.11:32
* Jaffa likes the D-pad location on the N810, and the slide switch11:33
JaffaI much prefer the cleaner look of the outside11:34
hachione thing I'm very happy with is the fact that the device is metal11:34
hachiit always feels cold, which is nice... I'm so tired of plastic things that feel hot11:34
GeneralAntillesCrime deterrent!11:34
hachicrime detergent?11:35
GeneralAntillesOld US cellphone commercial.11:35
hachiso, the internal IM client... it has a name, and I'm a dork and forgot it11:36
hachican anyone point me to the sources?11:36
GeneralAntilleshttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-710784058366458475411:36
GeneralAntillesrtcomm11:36
GeneralAntillesIt may be closed.11:36
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hachiwow... weird11:37
hachi(the commercial)11:37
hachiin any case, that's gonna suck if it's closed11:37
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hachiit seems to be unable to parse perfectly formed xml :)11:37
Cptnodegardok... help o.o the RSS home screen feed is displaying the feeds twice11:37
sKaBoyhachi, the gui is closed, the im framework is telepathy (and it's opensource)11:39
hachithanks sKaBoy11:39
hachinow... uhh11:39
hachihow do I find a product via google called 'telepathy'11:39
hachiit's like trying to find a company named 'the'11:39
GeneralAntilleshttp://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/11:40
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GeneralAntillesYour google-fu is weak. :P11:40
GeneralAntilleshttp://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/11:40
hachiapparently so11:40
sKaBoyor #telepathy if you have questions :)11:41
hachitotally on that11:41
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crashanddiehey everyone, I'm trying to gather info for deving for maemo11:42
onionanyone with some mediaplayer/gst knowledge around ?11:43
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, maemo.org11:43
zaheermgst knowledge yes...11:43
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: no, really? :P11:44
GeneralAntillesHey, I'm just giving you the answer that will cover your question as well as possible. :P11:44
onionzaheerm: I'm trying to get my mod support package up and running on os2008.. it seems the media player uses playbin now(?) as it's seems to play a mp3 just fine.. but it won't play a mod. If I create a proper pipeline with gst-launch it plays fine11:45
blahdeblahAnyone know why http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/install/rapier.install gives me an "Authorization required" error regardless of whether i'm logged in or not?11:45
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GeneralAntillesIs rapier even in Chinook extras?11:46
zaheermonion, sounds like the typefind for mod isn't there11:46
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: Apparently.11:46
blahdeblahThe main app screen is there, and the developer told me he uploaded it...11:46
GeneralAntillesGuess it is11:46
GeneralAntillesDo you have Extras installed in app manager?11:47
blahdeblahYes11:47
GeneralAntillesJust install it from there11:47
GeneralAntillesno need to bother with the .install11:47
blahdeblahDoesn't matter whether i try from app manager or the web site, i get the same result11:47
zaheermonion, try: gst-launch -v filesrc location=blah.mod ! typefind ! fakesink11:47
zaheermonion, and see what the caps of the typefind src pad is11:47
GeneralAntillesYou have ssh installed, blahdeblah?11:47
blahdeblahyes11:48
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GeneralAntillesssh in and run apt-get install rapier11:48
GeneralAntillesthen give us the output?11:48
GeneralAntilles(pastebin)11:48
GeneralAntillesIt's working over here.11:48
blahdeblahOK11:48
onionzaheerm: /pipeline0/typefindelement0.src: caps = audio/x-mod11:48
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: I've never tried to ssh in from outside - do i need to do anything to set it up?11:49
onionseems to be correct11:49
zaheermonion, so it does have typefind for mod..what happens when you do: gst-launch -v playbin uri=file:///home/user/blah.mod11:49
GeneralAntillesShouldn't, as long as you have both client and server installed.11:49
blahdeblahLike a password maybe?11:49
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to ssh as root.11:49
GeneralAntillesPassword is rootme by default11:49
GeneralAntilles(which you'll want to change)11:50
blahdeblahLooks like someone already has... ;-)11:50
onionzaheerm: Pipeline is PREROLLING ...11:50
oniongst-launch-0.10[5047]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GStreamer - gst_caps_copy_nth: assertion `GST_IS_CAPS (caps)' failed11:50
blahdeblahI can't get in with that password11:50
oniongst-launch-0.10[5047]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GStreamer - gst_caps_unref: assertion `caps != NULL' failed11:50
GeneralAntillesDo you have becomeroot installed?11:50
onion+ some more criticals11:50
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: Not to my knowledge - never heard of it11:50
zaheermonion: not good...you running this on the device or on a desktop?11:51
onionzaheerm: a filesrc ! modplug ! dsppcmsink pipe works11:51
GeneralAntillesOne sec11:51
onionzaheerm: device11:51
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GeneralAntillesblahdeblah, http://eko.one.pl/maemo/dists/bora/user/binary-armel/becomeroot_0.1-2_armel.deb11:51
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GeneralAntillesRoot is inaccessible by default.11:51
Jonhmm. are there any F/OSS media players for maemo floating around? I mean, ones which can be hacked on? the licence for canola is pretty unpleasant11:52
zaheermonion, ok try: gst-launch-0.10 uridecodebin uri=file:///home/user/blah.mod ! dsppcmsink11:52
johnxblahdeblah, did you install openssh-server?11:52
GeneralAntillesmedia center, maybe, Jon.11:52
zaheermonion, not sure how the media player uses playbin, what properties it sets etc.11:52
GeneralAntillesIf it's giving him a password request, yes, johnx.11:52
JonI'll give that a look, cheers - I think I've tried that and it wouldn't start on my n80011:52
johnxah, nm11:52
blahdeblahjohnx: yes11:52
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: Call me paranoid, but i don't generally just click URLs that people post in IRC.  Is there any doc on it at the maemo site?11:53
onionzaheerm: no such element on the device11:53
GeneralAntilles. . .11:53
rm_youin 2008 when you install openssh server, it prompts you for a new root password :P11:53
johnxI think recent openssh-server packages are supposed to ask you to set a root password on install11:53
GeneralAntillesLike I'm trying to hack your machine.11:53
GeneralAntillesw/e, I tried to help.11:53
metatronjohnx, on os2008, yeah11:53
zaheermonion, hmm do you have gdb and debug symbols on the device?11:54
blahdeblahGeneralAntilles: Like i said, call me paranoid. ;-)11:54
rm_youblahdeblah: install the file. we all did >_>11:54
GeneralAntillesWell, figure it out yourself, then. :)11:54
zaheermonion, also on a desktop, does playing the mod work with playbin?11:54
blahdeblahrm_you: hmmm...  I seem to recall being asked for that.11:54
onionzaheerm: sec..11:54
rm_youblahdeblah: in that case, you already set it. so try to remember :)11:54
rm_youor else install the deb file he linked you11:54
rm_youand sudo gainroot11:55
rm_youand then change it manually11:55
johnxbecomeroot is pretty well documented, don't take our word for it11:55
metatronman, im gonna hack your n810 and turn it into an open relay.11:55
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Panzerboyhaha11:55
johnxor just dpkg -x it and make sure you trust it11:55
* blahdeblah remembers his root password!11:55
Panzerboyyeah, i also have to install that one11:55
onionzaheerm: on my normal desktop it works yes11:55
rm_youblahdeblah: you'll probably want to install becomeroot anyway11:55
rm_youso you can sudo >_>11:56
onionzaheerm: but I have latest releases of all gst stuff there..11:56
zaheermonion, with no criticals?11:56
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blahdeblahcan i just edit sources.list directly?11:56
blahdeblahIt's telling me i've got duplicate repositories?11:56
blahdeblahs/\?//11:56
rm_youblahdeblah: sources.list.d/something11:56
rm_youyes11:56
onionzaheerm: I tried this gst-launch-0.10 -v  filesrc location=/media/mmc2/Modules/liz.mod ! decodebin2  and with decodebin. decodebin2 complains with criticals, decodebin does not11:57
onionzaheerm: on the device11:57
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zaheermonion, interesting...can you use --gst-fatal-warnings and get a core dump to gdb with on the pipeline with criticals11:58
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blahdeblahrm_you, GeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/6SUMVi60.html11:59
blahdeblahIf i go to http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz in my browser, i get "401 Authorization required".11:59
blahdeblahI really think this is an issue with the maemo.org web server.11:59
blahdeblahI can see http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/, though12:00
blahdeblahBut not http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 or http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages12:00
blahdeblahPermissions on the server, maybe?12:00
johnxblahdeblah, it works for me, but I think that maemo.org is actually different machines depending on your location12:01
blahdeblahjohnx: That explains why it works for GeneralAntilles but not me.12:01
johnxwhat IP does it look like from where you are?12:01
blahdeblah203-206-139-71.deploy.akamaitechnologies.net12:02
blahdeblahand -7212:02
johnxa515.g.akamai.net 219.188.199.13612:02
blahdeblahI wonder if i can go to that directly.12:02
* johnx tests12:02
blahdeblahI would have thought it would all be vhosted12:02
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johnxcan't connect directly12:03
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* blahdeblah wonders if he can fool it with wget...12:03
blahdeblahor a DNS override on his server...12:03
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KhertanHi !12:04
johnxI'm sure this isn't officially sanctioned but you can use stage.maemo.org instead of repository.maemo.org to workaround temporarily12:05
Khertanrepository are down again ?12:05
CptnodegardITT is seriousely annoying me12:06
johnxKhertan, only if your handle is blahdeblah12:06
Khertanso no :)12:06
johnxthe akamai servers he gets aren't cooperating12:06
GeneralAntillesstage isn't available anymore.12:06
johnxGeneralAntilles, it isn't?12:06
Khertanakamai have some problems this days ...12:06
johnxI figured since I could ping it ...12:06
GeneralAntillesDoesn't respond over here.12:06
GeneralAntillesHa12:07
GeneralAntillesMaybe it's available in some places.12:07
* blahdeblah is willing to try anything at this stage...12:07
johnxit WFM12:07
johnxsigh12:07
Khertanwfm ?12:07
blahdeblahKhertan: works for me12:07
johnxWFM = works for me12:07
blahdeblahstage.maemo.org gives me the 401 as well12:08
Khertanok (sorry i'm not english ... so i don't understand all acronyms ;) )12:08
* blahdeblah is not happy with akamai12:08
pupnik_wfm is new to me also12:08
johnxI hadn't seen WFM until yesterday but it was on this channel so I figured it was fair game12:08
Khertanlol12:09
GeneralAntillesbugzilla thing.12:09
rm_youdoes repostory.maemo.org still work? without the i?12:09
* blahdeblah says AIF to MUT WTL12:09
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, that's stage.maemo.org12:09
rm_you>_>12:09
johnxblahdeblah, does stage.maemo.org resolve to 62.61.85.32 for you?12:09
blahdeblahYep12:09
rm_youwell, i still have the IP in my /etc/hosts >_>12:09
rm_you62.61.85.32 repository.maemo.org12:10
johnxwell that sucks...12:10
blahdeblahYep12:10
Panzerboyhey, after sudo gainroot i've got root12:10
Panzerboythen i've setup a password for root12:10
Panzerboythen what next? :D12:10
blahdeblahEven when i try from my desktop, i still get 401 on http://stage.maemo.org/extras/dists/chinook/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz12:10
Panzerboyi see that sudo gainroot still works without any password12:10
KhertanPanzerboy: do a "rm -rf /"12:10
rm_youhrm time to try some stuff that may make my device gain super intelligence and try to kill me and steal my online identity12:10
rm_yousooo... brb12:10
Khertanhum don 't do this !12:10
PanzerboyKhertan: funny12:11
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* blahdeblah wonders if a download and dpkg -i will do the trick...12:11
PanzerboyNOT :P12:11
Panzerboyno, but su doesn't work12:11
GeneralAntillessu -12:11
Khertansudo su ;)12:11
Panzerboydoesn't either12:11
GeneralAntillesPanzerboy, that's the correct functionality for sudo gainroot.12:11
Panzerboyi see, but the point is12:11
Panzerboyafter i gain root12:11
blahdeblahGrrrrr!  Even http://stage.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/r/rapier/rapier_1.0.3-0_all.deb gives me a 40112:11
Panzerboyi want to protect it with a password, right?12:12
GeneralAntillesWell, I'd download it and give you a mirror, blahdeblah.12:12
Panzerboythen i have to somehow be able to get root (via su for example)12:12
Panzerboythen i want sudo gainroot to not work anymore :p12:12
Khertanbladeblah > i get .deb ... no 401 error hrer12:12
Panzerboyand if i do sudo su, it expects the user password i suppose12:13
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Khertanif user are in the sudoers files12:14
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BlafaselYay! My N810 just shipped to NYC12:16
* blahdeblah gives up for tonight. Wake me up when akamai starts working...12:16
blahdeblahThanks for your help everyone.12:16
KhertanBlafasel: u're lucky12:17
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BlafaselHmm.. I hope I'll get it on monday, when a friend of mine brings it here (Germany)12:17
Khertanit's seems that all french delivery has been canceled ...12:18
BlafaselBut I completely forgot that the US has this strange 110V A/C stuff.. Need to buy an adapter today, I guess.12:18
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Khertanfrench delivery (for the maemo discounted device)12:18
Khertanit s a rumour on a french maemo forum12:18
johnxBlafasel, I think it takes 100-240v 50/60Hz12:18
BlafaselHow much is one of those discounted one?12:19
nomismy N810 has arrived.12:19
nomisyay!12:19
Blafaseljohnx: Really? The AC doesn't care about 110 vs. 220-230?12:19
KhertanBlafasel: how much ? (the discount program for the selected developpers)12:19
GeneralAntillesBlafasel, we had electricity before you. :P12:19
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BlafaselGeneralAntilles: Huh?12:20
onionzaheerm: sure.. just how do I make it dump a core file ?12:20
BlafaselKhertan: Yeah, I was just curious how much it costs for pre-registered developers12:20
johnxBlafasel, it's 100-240v 50/60Hz12:20
nomisBlafasel: most power adapters for mobile devices (including Laptops) are tolerant regarding 110V vs. 230V.12:20
johnxjust checked12:20
blahdeblahDoes anyone know which media players on OS2008 can take advantage of maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support?12:21
Blafaseljohnx, nomis: Thanks. If I'd know how the plug looks like in the US I might get away without an adapter (but I somehow doubt it?).12:21
KhertanBlafasel: it should cost 99 Euros ... but when we use the code it was 0Euros + Delivery ports (7,5Euros) ....12:21
BlafaselKhertan: Wow. Nice12:21
KhertanBlafasel: but delivery seems to be cancelled ...12:21
nomisKhertan: I got mine today. I paid 5 EUR of shipping cost.12:22
Khertanand one guy from a nokia let s me a message on my phone ... but with no more information12:22
johnxBlafasel, http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=com.ubuntu%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=nokia+phone+ac+adapter+US&btnG=Search+Images12:22
nomisMhm. I wonder if Nokia will contact me regarding this.12:22
Khertannomis: i take express delivery ... so in 48 hours ... bought the 04/01/08 ... and still not received it12:22
Khertan;(12:22
nomisKhertan: sucks.12:23
Khertani ve try to recontact it ... but noone answer to call ....12:23
johnxBlafasel, first pic is US ac adapter is first image12:23
Blafaseljohnx: Thanks again. So off to buy an adapter during lunch12:23
johnxBlafasel, if you can find one that just converts shape, not voltage it will be lots cheaper12:24
rtpKhertan: your order was canceled. The guy from nokia will give you a new code to order one with the right discount12:24
johnxI don't know if those exist near you though12:24
Khertana other guy on maemofr.org have a dial with one guy at the french store ... saying that send was cancelled and it give it a new discount code... and when he use it ... it get the n810 for 99Euros12:24
Blafaseljohnx: No problem here (and I need one of those anyway), since the EU likes to vary a lot as well12:24
BlafaselI'm off to switzerland on monday, they for example use a different shape again12:25
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Khertanrtp: not very nice from nokia... as i ve no more informations ....12:25
rtpKhertan: if you tried to phone to the guy after 18h, it was too late :)12:25
Khertanrtp: i ve tryed before12:26
Khertan30 min ... and after 30 min it was 18h ... and call connection close12:26
Khertanso i ve tryed at 17h3012:26
rtp:(12:27
rm_youhrm12:27
rm_youfor some reason i can't open /mnt/initfs/tmp/dsmesock in write mode :(12:27
Khertanso i'm wainting ... and i m a little furious ....12:27
rm_youit just fails12:27
Khertanbut remembering that is a offer ...12:28
blahdeblahSo no takers on maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support?12:28
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Khertanhum ... "gift" should be a more appropriate word :)12:29
rtpKhertan: well, take also into that ups are loosers too so you can also have delivery troubles ...12:29
michele_hello12:29
bedboican anyone point me to the thread about GPS (n810) on itt?12:29
michele_is gnuite's gpx.cgi source available?12:29
bedboii'm still having problems with that12:29
Khertanrtp: yes i know... i hate ups ... each time i ve problem with this company ...12:29
Khertanrtp: but as you should read it somewhere else, there is no tracking number on the nokia command status ...12:30
rtpKhertan: I don't need to read it somewhere. I know people who got their n810 :)12:30
maddlermorning all...12:31
Khertanrtp: i read it that a french get it too (which get a call), and one get his order cancelled (which get a call too)12:32
michele_bedboi: what kind of problems?12:32
bedboiit can't get a fix in a reasonable amount of time12:32
bedboieven if i am on the street12:32
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johnxbedboi, did you ever get the first fix?12:33
bedboiyep12:33
johnxhow long did that take?12:34
bedboiin that case it took some minutes12:34
michele_bedboi: my experience has been that the first time it took several minutes, then it varies, from one minute up12:34
rtpKhertan: I'm talking of french people too12:35
bedboimichele_: do you need not to move?12:35
bedboiin order to get a fix?12:35
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michele_bedboi: no, it works even if I am moving in the car12:35
bedboiok, so it's not my case12:35
bedboieven if i'm walkin on the streets it doesn't get a fix in 10 minutes walk12:35
Khertanrtp: yes ... and all lucky who get their n810 get it with standart delivery ... why i take a express delivery to get it ... stupid i am ...12:36
borismi've got mine from ebay from guy in u.s., arrived within two weeks :)12:39
borismi wonder where gps antenna is in there12:39
johnxisn't it near the weird corner on the top left?12:40
keesjI really did not have that problem yesterday. The only feeling I had is that the position showed it where you where a few seconds ago12:41
borismi doubt it - quite tight with space there12:41
michele_yes, it's not very precise, but it gets better as you hook to more satellites12:42
bedboimichele_: now i'm in the very same place where i got the first fix, but the device is not able to get the fix again, which is quite weird.12:42
borismindoors?12:43
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Veggenbedboi: gps-coverage/conditions can vary a lot.12:45
bedboiVeggen: i never had a gps receiver, btw i think that you should get a fix at least once a day12:45
bedboiyesterday i didn't get any fix12:46
GeneralAntillesThey really should've put a really GPS chip in the N810.12:50
GeneralAntillesAny real GPS unit will get a fix in under a minute.12:50
GeneralAntillesMy i-blue holds a fix pretty much anywhere and in under 40 seconds12:51
michele_what do you mean a real gps chip?12:51
GeneralAntillesNot a shitty TI chip12:51
michele_I have seen other mobile gps antennaes, and they don't work much better12:51
GeneralAntillesSiRF or MTK or somesuch.12:51
GeneralAntillesThe Garmins I've used have all been great12:52
GeneralAntillesand bluetooth GPS units are really good.12:52
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Khertanmy sirf III take 10 min in my car from cold start12:53
GeneralAntillesYeesh12:54
GeneralAntillesMust have a bad antenna.12:54
keesjMy tomtom works just fine (specialy when i download quickfixes) :p12:55
Khertanit s a tomtom one12:55
Khertanbut it work very well in the car of my wife12:55
GeneralAntillesAha, you have treated windows?12:55
GeneralAntillesSome manufacturers have a metal treatment on the windows12:56
GeneralAntillesUV filtering or somesuch12:56
GeneralAntillesbut it kills radio reception for devices inside the car.12:56
Khertani ve a special window ... but i don t know how to say it in english ... wait ... you ll laught with google traduction ... :)12:57
KhertanAthermic windscreen12:57
GeneralAntillesThat would be the reason for bad reception.12:57
Khertanhum ... not funny ... it s seem s to be good traduction ...12:57
JuhazKhertan, moving car or just sitting there?12:58
KhertanGeneralAntilles: yeah i know ... and it s one of this first type of window .... the new one is more gps friendly*12:58
KhertanJuhaz: if i move it s noway .... :)12:58
GeneralAntillesThe TomTom have an antenna port?12:59
Khertando u have differences superior of 10 km/h between the speed indicated by the gps and your car ?12:59
KhertanGeneralAntilles: some have ... mine i don't know ... never use it ... it s mainly for my wife12:59
GeneralAntillesMy GPS is within .5MPH when it gets a lock.13:00
Juhazcar speed meters ofter report bit too much, yes.13:00
GeneralAntillesThe speedometer on my Beetle was actually 2MPH too fast.13:00
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zetherooI really need Skype to have video on the N800.... sob... :'(13:02
GeneralAntillesJust get everybody to use Gizmo.13:02
GeneralAntillesSkype sucks, anyway.13:02
zetherooI am leaving on a work trip to the US for a month and want to have video chat with my wife and kids while I am on-the-go13:02
zetherooGizmo such too13:03
mgedminwhat sucks most is that I have three different "internet call" programs in the Communications menu13:03
GeneralAntillesSet them up with Gizmo, then.13:03
zetheroono video for Linux13:03
mgedminthere should be only one13:03
zetheroomgedmin: yes... same here....13:03
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zetherooridiculous13:03
mgedminof course it's skype's fault for not using a standard protocol...13:03
Khertani ve tryed my car on a private road ... and gps indicate lower speed on high speed13:03
zetheroomgedmin: its just that none of the apps, Skype, Gizmo or the default one are up to scratch..... arg13:04
mgedminwell, that too13:04
keesjconsider voting on some bugs here https://developer.skype.com/jira/browse/SCL?report=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.project:popularissues-panel13:04
zetherooso frustrating13:04
GeneralAntillesGizmo with the built-in client works well for me.13:04
zetheroowith windows?13:04
zetheroowith a Windows PC?13:04
GeneralAntillesNo, on OS2008.13:04
BlafaselI'd rather use a solution based on xmpp and jingle13:05
zetherooyeah... but with what OS are you video chatting to?13:05
GeneralAntillesOS X13:05
zetheroowell my wife has a Mac13:05
GeneralAntillesThat'll work.13:05
zetheroowith OS X13:05
zetheroo?13:05
zetheroois it easy to setup?13:05
GeneralAntillesJust install Gizmo13:05
GeneralAntillesmake sure she has a webcam13:05
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Juhazmy car shows almost 20km/h too much at 100km/h (the error seems to be a function of speed, not fixed)13:06
GeneralAntillesLog it in, add yourself as a contact.13:06
keesjMy girlfriend runs linux :(13:06
GeneralAntillesThe other alternative is to just buy her an N800, zetheroo. :P13:06
Nermalhello all :)13:07
Nermalare there any nice little utils to tell me my current IP for os 2008 ? I used to have an applet for 2007 but I don't think it works in 2008 yet :|13:07
zetherooGeneralAntilles: haha... I don't have money flowing like that....13:07
GeneralAntillesConnection Manager, Nermal.13:07
GeneralAntillesNothing else right now.13:07
zetheroowhy oh why does the Linux version not support Video.....13:07
GeneralAntillesBecause nobody uses Linux. :P13:08
Nermalok - if I wanted to install ifconfig what package is that in ?13:08
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zetheroowhy is Linux alwasy behind?13:08
GeneralAntillesBecause nobody uses Linux. :P13:08
zetheroofrustrating13:08
Nermalzetheroo, nah - we've had lots of things first :)13:08
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zetheroothats not true...... many ppl use it13:08
zetherooNermal: maybe13:08
GeneralAntillesFor servers, yes.13:08
GeneralAntillesBut it doesn't have the critical mass on the desktop yet.13:09
Nermalbut open source is primarily written by people who like to code rather than design UIs.  It's also generally written for a technical audience.13:09
zetheroowhats better about the N810?13:09
Nermalso you get a lot of software which does what it does very well - but is unituative or difficult to use13:09
zetherooNermal: all that has got to change13:09
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NermalI'd much rather code in my spare time than do usability testing and documentation13:10
zetherooso there is no way to video chat from an N800 and a Linux PC?13:10
Nermalzetheroo, and it will I expect, as companies like canonical can pay people to do the stuff coders don't want to do13:10
mgedminGNOME is pretty good in the UI design and ease-of-use department13:10
zetherooI have been running Ubuntu on all my PC's (3) for a year13:10
jjoI sense a desktop environmert war in the air...13:10
zetheroono Windows at all13:11
zetheroojjo: no13:11
zetheroono war13:11
zetheroojust peace and harmony13:11
zetheroohehe13:11
jjoexactly and editing with the best editor ever, vim13:11
Blafasel;)13:12
BlafaselUse ed13:12
jjoI do agree that gnome has done a lot of usability stuff and for me it works13:12
keesjzetheroo: yep. not possible13:12
KhertanNermal: the ip applet will be available for os 2008 when the dev will receive their n810 device13:13
Khertanit s what he said on their site ....13:13
Nermalah ok :)13:14
Nermalgah - no aptitude in os 2008 :(13:14
Khertanhttp://www.mulliner.org/blog/blosxom.cgi/2008/01/08#repositorystats13:14
fugitivook, i got an email with the correct link to buy the tablet in USA13:15
fugitivobut the code has no balance13:16
mgedminoh?13:16
mgedminI'm afraid to try it out13:16
mgedminlast time people whose orders had to be cancelled said that the code became invalid after one try13:16
fugitivoi'm going crazy with this issue :)13:16
mshyeah, mine didn't work either13:17
mgedminby the way, is the code a "coupon code" or a "gift/reward code"13:17
mshjust patience I guess.13:17
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mgedminand what genius came up with the idea to have two different ones?13:17
mshand need to find a US creditcard.13:17
mshmgedmin: perhaps the number ranges overlap ;)13:17
mgedminone entry box is narrower :)13:17
fugitivoone is Coupon code, the other Gift/Reward13:18
fugitivofirst one doesn't work, the other works but no balance13:18
zetherooare bluetooth headsets supported on the N800?13:18
mshfugitivo: "12345" has no balance too for "Gift"13:19
Khertandon't enjoy too early ... using the discount code doesn't mean you ll get your n810 ....13:19
* msh grins13:19
zaheermis there a way of detecting if running inside hildon from inside python?13:19
Khertanzaheerm: yes ...13:20
mshnote to self: avoid buying stuff from nokia stores :)13:20
zaheermKhertan, do you know how?13:20
Juhazzaheerm, try to import the module?13:20
Khertanzaheerm: need more information ? :)13:20
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Khertantry to import module ... if it fails ... u re not13:20
zaheermJuhaz, i mean running inside it, not whether the python module is installed13:20
Khertanarg ... burnst by juhaz ... :)13:20
mgedminzaheerm: why do you need that?13:20
Juhazwell, while there is theoretically a difference, when do you run into it in real world?13:21
mgedminwhat problem are you solving?13:21
Khertanyou can do as ukmp coders ... as u read the user name, and if there is a /media/mmc2 :)13:21
Juhazhildon is just a library anyway, you can't be "running inside it", unless you've been embedded in some other app that uses hildon13:22
Khertanyes but why limits your app, if it can run on other device which have all the necessary libs ?13:23
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zaheermthis is just to enable hildon specific stuff13:23
Khertanso just enable it when the lib is available ...13:23
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zaheermbut yah i think you're right, just try importing hildon and seeing if it throws an exception or not13:23
rm_youzetheroo: yes13:23
zaheermshould suffice13:23
zetheroorm_you: ok... cool13:24
Khertani use hildon on my desktop pc ... so why your app shouldn't work on it ? is there any reason ?13:24
rm_youGeneralAntilles: I *think* i'm making progress with this dsme brightness setting stuff... >_>13:24
GeneralAntillesSo no need for the kernel?13:24
zaheermKhertan, not really13:24
rm_youi didn't quite grasp how little I knew about coding, until today :P13:24
rm_youhopefully, if i can actually get this to work13:25
GeneralAntillesIf you make an applet that allows full-range without the need for a custom kernel. . . .13:25
GeneralAntillesWell, you'll make a LOT of people very happy. ;)13:25
rm_youlol13:25
Khertanrm_you: are u trying the python example to set brightness ?13:25
rm_youhopefully fanoush gets back to me13:25
rm_youKhertan: no? i'm using C13:25
Khertanstill no news about python hildondesktop / or update on hildondesktop binding for ruby ?13:26
rm_youpython would be so much better for me, because I actually know python >_> but apparently C is better for this (much faster, admittedly)13:26
rm_youKhertan: which python brightness example?13:26
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Khertanrm_you: c is better to do a applet ... mainly because  python binding for hildon desktop arent functionnal yet ...13:26
Khertanrm_you: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_osso_examples/code/statusbar/osso_test_statusbar.py13:27
Khertanthis one13:27
rm_youKhertan: that applet doesn't look like it DOES anything?13:29
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hachithe warnings on the OS flasher stuff say the memory card will be cleared... I think13:30
Khertanit s not an applet ...13:30
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hachidoes that only mean the MTD will be cleared, or the mmc will be cleared too?13:30
rm_youKhertan: its a statusbar applet13:30
rm_youright13:30
rm_you?13:30
Khertanit s just a small example to send a message to statusbar applet13:30
hachioh, everything not on the memory card, okay13:30
hachiI read it backwards13:30
rm_you????13:30
rm_you>_> i don't get it13:31
rm_youI think i need to sleep now13:31
KhertanStatus Bar13:31
Khertanhttp://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/python_osso_examples/index.html13:31
rm_youI've been barely able to keep my eyes open for like the last 3 hours13:31
GeneralAntillesSleep! Sleeeeeep!13:31
rm_youoh.... no. that's lame :P13:31
rm_youlol13:32
rm_youGeneralAntilles: *you* should play with reverse engineering this #$^@ing thing13:32
GeneralAntillesNah, that's what I have you for. :P13:32
rm_youlol13:32
rm_youhttp://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11958&page=513:32
rm_youmy current test code is in the last post :P13:33
GeneralAntillesNothing to install scratchbox on over here, anyway.13:33
rm_youah, right13:33
rm_youlol13:33
rm_youi should ship you my 450 mhz dual pentium debian machine that I use as a foot-warmer13:34
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GeneralAntillesHaha13:34
hachiI have a dual P4 xeon that I use as a house warmer13:34
GeneralAntillesYeah, G5 that I use as an apartment warmer.13:34
michele_rm_you: what are you trying to do with the brightness?13:35
GeneralAntillesGet rid of the suck.13:35
michele_it sucks?13:35
rm_youmichele_: allow changing it in a range from 1-127 instead of a range from lame1-lame2-lame3-lame413:35
michele_ok :)13:35
GeneralAntilleslame . . . hahaha13:35
hachihey... which button is the home button on the 81013:35
mgedminone of the two13:36
GeneralAntillesThe one with a house on it?13:36
michele_no offense intended, but I'd rather see people working on useful applications instead of minor quirks like this ;)13:36
hachino such button13:36
michele_but hey, if it makes you feel better, just do it anyway13:36
mgedminhachi: the one with the two overlapping rectangles, I think13:36
mgedminI don't have a N810 yet13:36
michele_there is no house on the 81013:36
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mgedminIIRC the two buttons on the left are Esc and Home13:37
michele_yes, that one13:37
GeneralAntillesmichele_, this is a major usability killer for a lot of people13:37
GeneralAntillesHardly a "minor quirk"13:37
mgedminrm_you: I wonder if you can tweak the default applet by setting some gconf keys13:37
mgedmingconftool -R /|grep bright13:37
mgedminthe ones in /system/osso/dsm/display look interesting13:38
hachiyay flashed13:38
mgedminmax_display_brightness_levels and display_brightness_level_step13:39
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GeneralAntillesThe applet would never give you a full-range of selection, mgedmin.13:39
GeneralAntillesOnly 5 steps.13:39
mgedminGeneralAntilles: I see 9 steps in the applet here13:40
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GeneralAntillesOS200713:40
GeneralAntilles-0513:40
mgedminOS200813:40
GeneralAntillesBull13:40
GeneralAntillesThere are 5 steps.13:40
inzmgedmin, do the ones above 5 change the brightness?13:41
mgedminyes13:41
mgedminwait, no13:41
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mgedminno13:41
mgedminhm, fun13:41
michele_what means when the presence applet has an exlamation mark on it?13:42
mgedminperhaps steps 6-9 are valid on N810 hardware only13:42
GeneralAntillesConnection error of some sort, michele_.13:42
GeneralAntillesTap it and it'll usually tell you.13:42
michele_oh right13:42
inzmgedmin, nope, N810 has only 5 too13:42
michele_mgedmin: I have the 810 and I see 5 steps13:42
mgedminwtfness13:42
wnddamn me and my curiosity. when I was told the built-in email client was, I should have believed them. I wanted to know just how bad it was, so I set the thing with my gmail account. it downloaded 5000 headers, consumed all available ram and put the thing to crawl. I managed to open the accounts dialog and click delete. after five minutes of waiting the device was still busy doing something so I ssh'd to the device and killed the process. this caused the email client t13:43
wndo refuse to start until I rebooted. I checked the email client and the account was gone. I continued playing around until it said I had new email. I openend the email client and realised the account was still there. however this time "enprocess" is consuming all the cpu time and I cannot get the account dialog open. killing enprocess terminates the email client as well. is there /usr/bin/kill-email-client-accounts-and-delete-retrieved-headers.sh or something?-)13:43
* wnd sighs13:43
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rm_youmgedmin: ok well just spent about 5 minutes playing around with all of those display/brightness gconf values... only one of them appears to affect ANYTHING13:43
rm_youand all it does is switch between the presets >_>13:44
zetherooGeneralAntilles: umm ... I am trying to get the video working in Gizmo with my wifes Mac.....13:44
zetherooGeneralAntilles: but there is no video option in the Gizmo control panel13:44
rm_youzetheroo: you need like... the beta or something13:44
rm_youit's a much smaller link on the site13:44
rm_youIIRC13:45
zetheroobut there is only a beta for Windows13:45
rm_you:/13:45
rm_youdoes the mac version have video in the stable version?13:45
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: you there?13:46
rm_youzetheroo: it doesnt look like the mac client supports video yet? :/13:46
rm_youjust the windoze beta that i see13:46
zetheroobut....13:46
zetherooGeneralAntilles said he had it working on his mac13:47
rm_youI *did* test the windows beta <-> n800, and it worked nicely with video13:47
GeneralAntillesWell, they HAD a Mac beta13:47
GeneralAntillesdon't know where it went.13:47
zetheroooh?13:47
zetheroojee wiz13:47
zetheroodo  you still have it?13:47
zetheroocan you send it my way?13:48
GeneralAntillesNot on this machine.13:48
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GeneralAntillesnot on a machine I have convenient access to.13:48
zetherooshame13:49
rm_youwell, anyways, this project is teaching me a ridiculous amount of cool stuff :)13:50
rm_youso whether i get it working or not...13:50
rm_youwell, lets just hope i do :)13:50
* rm_you sleeps13:50
GeneralAntillesSee, why in the world would you want me to learn all that cool stuff? :P13:50
GeneralAntilles'night13:50
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: do you mean the beta 3.1?13:52
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zetheroofor Leopard?13:52
GeneralAntillesDon't recall the version13:52
GeneralAntillesbut it did video.13:52
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zetheroothere is a Gizmo Beta with compatibility for Leopard.... its 3.113:53
Cptnodegardgrrrrrrrrrrr13:53
GeneralAntillesDoes it do video?13:53
zetherooummm13:53
Cptnodegardanyone here ever made a RSS feed?13:53
zetherooI dunno\13:53
metatronnot intentionally13:53
zetheroothere is barely anything written about it13:53
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GeneralAntillesIntel machine, zetheroo?13:54
zetherooummm13:54
zetheroothe Mac?13:54
GeneralAntillesYeah13:54
zetheroonope13:54
zetherooiBook13:55
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zetherooG413:55
GeneralAntillesNo webcam on that13:55
GeneralAntillesUSB?13:55
zetherooyeah13:55
zetheroodo you have to have a webcam plugged in for the option to show in Gizmo?13:56
GeneralAntillesDunno13:56
zetheroohow do you uninstall apps on a Mac?13:56
GeneralAntillesTried it on a Macbook13:56
zetheroowith a built-in webcam?13:56
GeneralAntillesDid you ever pull it off the disk image?13:56
GeneralAntillesYeah13:56
zetherooI want to uninstall Gizmo13:56
GeneralAntillesDid you ever copy the application off the disk image?13:57
zetherooumm13:57
zetherooI installed it13:57
GeneralAntillesCopied it to Applications?13:57
GeneralAntillesFor 90% of stuff on OS X, you don't actually install anything13:58
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GeneralAntillesYou just copy the application off of the disk image over to /Applications13:58
GeneralAntillesWhich isn't necessary unless you actually want to keep it.13:58
GeneralAntillesIf you did that13:58
Luriaand end up with a bloody mess13:58
JaffaCptnodegard: yeah, I've made RSS feeds.13:59
GeneralAntillesthen delete Gizmo out of /Applications13:59
zetherooyeah thats what I did13:59
zetheroooh ok13:59
zetheroosimple13:59
zetheroowow13:59
GeneralAntillesand eject the disk image13:59
GeneralAntilles(or don't it'll go away after a restart)13:59
GeneralAntillesLuria, what sort of "bloody mess".13:59
GeneralAntilles?13:59
Lurialots of programs in a messy applications folder14:00
GeneralAntillesStick them in folders, then. . . .14:00
Luriai do not like the way macs handle installs14:00
GeneralAntillesWhy, too straightforward? :P14:00
Luriano, too cludgy14:00
GeneralAntillesThere's application management software out there if you want that.14:00
Luriai like it less than windows even14:00
GeneralAntillesHow is downloading an application and sticking it in a folder "kludgy"?14:01
Luriai also would like a proper application menu14:01
Luriaexcept some things do, some things dont install that way14:01
GeneralAntillesRight, stuff that has to stick stuff in /Library and ~/Library, etc.14:01
Luriaand some of the things that do install that way make (untracked) system changes14:01
GeneralAntillesWell, that's not Apple's fault.14:02
GeneralAntillesI run everything by Quicksilver, anyway.14:02
GeneralAntillesclick-click-click in a menu is a pain.14:02
Panzerboyyeah, Quicksilver rules14:02
Panzerboyeven though if all you do is launch apps, spotlight in Leopard is enough14:03
GeneralAntillesEh, spotlight is still too damn slow for that.14:03
zetherooGeneralAntilles: still no video14:03
Cptnodegard[12:59] <Jaffa> Cptnodegard: yeah, I've made RSS feeds.  <- im having trouble with the N800 reader, it only shows one of the items... I wanted to make a simple feed showing items named N/A to stop the os2008 rss reader to show duplicate items on the home screen when there's less than 4 itemsavailable14:03
Cptnodegardthe feed: http://captain-odegard.com/rss.xml14:03
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JaffaCptnodegard: try it through http://feedvalidator.org/14:04
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zetheroosigh14:05
Cptnodegardthx14:05
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mgedminthe RSS reader shows only new times14:06
mgedminwhere "new" means "those that weren't present in the feed when you last refreshed it"14:06
zetherooGeneralAntilles: is there an easy way to test my webcam on this mac?14:06
mgedminthere's a bug filed about this14:07
GeneralAntillesDon't know off-hand, zetheroo.14:07
GeneralAntillesNever use webcams.14:07
Nermalis there a way to change the background colour of the simplelauncher app ?14:12
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Panzerboyzetheroo: what webcam you have? integrated iSight or some external?14:14
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pupnik770bleh @ postman who just drove by...14:23
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pupnik770wooooo!!!!!!!14:24
keesjgreat!14:25
pupnik770weeeeeeee ;)14:26
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GeneralAntillesTime to register pupnikN810? :P14:29
Cordpupnik770: standard?14:29
zetheroook well I got me USB webcam working on the Mac... and Skype loves it... but Gizmo ... nothing14:29
zetherooso... what about Googletalk?14:29
zetheroodoes it do video chat?14:30
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coronaVideo or webcam chatting isn't currently supported in Google Talk.14:30
coronahttp://www.google.com/support/talkgadget/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=6943214:31
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zetherooso this webcam is completely useless fro me....14:32
zetheroogreat....14:32
zetherooshould have spent the cash on an EeePC14:33
coronaI'll take it - just cut it out ;)14:33
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Nermallo pupnik770 - you waiting for an n810 ?14:34
GeneralAntilleszetheroo, give it two months.14:34
zetheroowhat about jabber?14:34
zetheroodoes that work on a Mac?14:35
GeneralAntillesYou could do audio-only just fine.14:36
zetherooand SIP?14:37
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johnxzetheroo, I think it's called xmeeting for SIP on Mac14:38
zetheroocan it handle video?14:39
johnxI honestly don't remember14:39
johnxshould be easy to google14:39
pupnik770hi nermal   just arrived14:39
zetheroois sip like skype and gizmo?....14:41
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pupnik770it is a standard for phone convo14:42
zetheroodo you need to buy credit to use it?14:42
pupnik770i think some ISPs provide free or cheap SIP calls14:43
zetheroooh ... so its like VOIP14:43
Nermalpupnik770, bit of an upgrade from the 770 then ? :)14:44
pupnik770yeah just tested the screen in direct sunlight    -- wow14:44
Nermal* pupnik770 is now known as pupnik810 :)14:44
Nermalyou have sunlight where you are ? :|14:45
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Nermalbah - I want simplelauncher transparency :(14:45
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Khertanpupnik> you get a discounted n810 ?14:58
pupnik770hopefully yes15:01
pupnik770i have to check with the credit card holder15:01
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Cordpupnik770: standard delivery?15:02
Khertanfor 99 Euro ?15:02
pupnik770well apparently 0 euro.  very nice of Nokia to increase the discount15:03
pupnik770thanks are in order15:03
Khertani ve ordered mine one week ago for 0Euros + 13 Euros for express delivery ... but never see it yet ... it s seems that order has been canceled for many people ...15:03
CordKhertan: which country?15:03
Khertanand they need to call shop support15:03
Khertanwhich provide a new discount code for 99Euros ...15:04
pupnik770.de15:04
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Khertanso pupnik don't expect to have it for 0Euro15:04
Khertancord > french store15:04
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pupnik770khertan, what country?15:04
Cordpupnik770: the discount isn't mentioned on the 'rechnung'?15:05
Khertanfrench15:05
Khertanfranzosichen15:05
pupnik770the discount is on the rechnung15:05
wusel_cord: it was a delivery note, no bill ...15:05
Cordwusel_: ok. just to lazy to check with dict.leo.org ;-)15:05
Khertani ve a bill which a received by mail ... after the delevery note15:06
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Khertanbut it seem s they call back device sended by ups before the delivery15:08
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mat|workmine (0 euros, france) was apparently canceled, although I didn't receive any notification of that...15:11
Cordlets see. i now know about two Expressdelieveries and one Standard in .de15:14
Cordpupnik770: it was Standard-delivery?15:14
alteregoHmmm, ssh-agent doesn't seem to want to work on my N810 :/15:15
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Khertanmat|work > hum .... same thing ... how do u know that yours has been cancelled ?15:16
mat|workbecause it's been a week since I ordered it ? :)15:17
Khertanok ... like me15:17
mat|workalso my roommate said I received a call from nokia15:18
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Khertanin express delivery ...15:18
mat|workshe gave them my cellphone number but they haven't called me back15:18
Khertanit seems that one french get his device15:18
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mat|workmaybe our lucky guy before they noticed the problem :)15:18
mat|works/our/one/15:18
infobotmat|work meant: maybe one lucky guy before they noticed the problem :)15:18
mat|workthanks, infobot15:18
Khertanj'ai ete appelé ... mais j'etais en train de dormir (malade) ... il a laissé un message disant qu'il allez me rappeler mais rien15:18
Khertanand i ve tryed to call her ... but noone answer ...15:19
CordKhertan: no rude language here. thanks ;-)15:19
Khertanoupsss ... sorry for the french15:19
* Cord hides.15:19
Khertanso they call me back .... but just leave a message, saying that they call again ... but this never happen15:20
CordKhertan: your order is still visible in the shop?15:20
Khertanyes15:20
Khertanand you ?15:21
Khertani finish to eat ... then i ll call it ...15:21
Cordmine too, but i ordered at 08.01.2008 20:10 CET15:21
mat|workmy order is also still visible15:22
mat|workI'd try to call them but I'm at work :(15:22
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KhertanCommandé le  04/01/2008 16:08 CET15:22
KhertanCommandé le = Ordered at ...15:22
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Khertan(copy / paste)15:22
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Khertanthis maemo developpers program is a fiasco ...15:24
Cordthe whole Shopsystem of Nokia is. including the services they provide for maemo.15:25
Khertanit s mostly give me the feeling that they laughting us ....15:25
wumpusyeah, agreed, you developers should have gotten one of the first of those devices15:25
CordKhertan: they don't. because they don't care enough.15:25
wumpusthis really sounds like it's not important at all15:25
wumpusindeed15:25
Khertanand at this time ... if their was similar device from other company ... i ll switch15:25
GeneralAntillesI'm guessing the people that care either don't know or can't do anything about it.15:26
GeneralAntillesThe rest either don't care or are entirely incompetent.15:26
wumpusI wouldn't blame you the least15:26
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KhertanFor a company doing communicating device ... it s a shame that their is no communications with their customers and dev ...15:27
pupnik770cord - ordered on the 9th, std delivery15:27
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Cordpupnik770: even half a day later than my collegues and me.15:27
Khertanthey ve lost two customers which bought the n810 at his fullprice 10 days before in express due to no communication why their command has been cancelled15:28
guardianwhich should i prefer: dropbear ssh server or openssh ?15:28
pupnik770delivery depends somewhat upon logistics - how many packages they have stocked up to go to a particular place15:28
wumpusof course, but they could at least try to communicate that better15:29
GeneralAntillesopenssh15:29
Khertanpupnik> yes ... but when it s cancelled ... it s not a logistics problem15:29
pupnik770ok15:29
Khertannor a delay from the delivery company ...15:29
guardianok15:30
pupnik770first impression - speakers have a slight rattle/distortion when playing full volume15:30
wumpusdropbear should be somewhat smaller, but don't know the difference in capability15:30
Khertani know that sometimes a express delivery in 48 could take more ... but it s the fault of the company delivery ... but not here15:30
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Khertanwumpus ... the main difference between dropbear and openssh for me is that dropbear is lacking some feature ... like scp15:49
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VeggenI always install openssh.15:49
LoCusFis there some advantage is in using dropbear vs. openssh ?15:49
Blafaselscp or sftp?15:49
GeneralAntillesdropbear is a lightweight deal.15:49
wumpusyes, I know it lacks some features, but I didn't know which15:49
wumpusscp sounds like a serious feature to miss though :/15:50
guardianplease can someone remind me how to become root on OS200715:50
mshdropbear should have scp if it's compiled in15:50
mshpossibly not sftp though15:50
guardianlogin into ssh, "rootme" password, change password ?15:50
GeneralAntilleshttp://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html15:50
BlafaselLoCusF: dropbear is the small and lean solution for embedded devices. If you have a router with linux/ssh on it, it's probably dropbear15:50
* msh is matt15:50
wumpusdropbear uses much less memory and disk space15:50
GeneralAntillesNote the first paragraph15:50
BlafaselCall it the busybox of ssh15:50
wumpusnot that important for the nokia, but indeed for routers etc it is15:50
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Khertandropbear should have scp if it's compiled in > yes but it s not the case for the one available in the repository ...15:52
Khertanit was not the case when i test it the first time ...15:52
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mshmm. I'll try and sort that out when I get my n81015:52
blahdeblahOK - gonna try this question again: which maemo media players support both maemo-scrobbler and ogg-support?15:53
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giskardhey guys do you think it's possible to share a bt wifi connection with the n810?15:57
Sho_Wonderful - today my dev discount N810 arrived. Defective. This is starting to be comical.15:58
Jaffagiskard: need more clarification, what do you mean by "bt wifi connection"?15:58
Khertanlol15:58
NermalSho_, doh15:58
Jaffagiskard: BT's (the incumbent landline operator in the UK) wireless routers as part of their BT Broadband package should work flawlessly with the N810.15:58
Sho_And the bill of delivery does have a column with the rebate, but didn't factor it into the total sum at the end, so I have no idea what I'm going to pay15:59
giskardbluetooth15:59
NermalI think he means bluetooth15:59
giskardsorry15:59
giskardright15:59
Sho_And given how utterly incapable Nokia is of getting anything right that is even remotely connected to this program, I can only imagine what fun it is going to be to get it replaced15:59
Khertanwe can think that nokia is try to suicide their platform maemo ... or at least try to abandonned it ...15:59
vegaiSho_: defective, how?16:00
NermalSho_, at least you got a discount code :)16:00
Jaffagiskard/Nermal: indeed, but "bt wifi" doesn't make much sense16:00
Sho_vegai: The screen has a strong yellow tint and is unintelligible16:00
Jaffa(to me, at least)16:00
vegaiAh, nasty.16:00
giskardjaffa...i mean share internet over bt16:00
Nermaltake it to your "local nokia service centre" ?16:01
Khertanand how much was your rebate ? total ... or with a rest of 99 Euros ?16:01
Sho_vegai: e.g. the Nokia hands at bootop are visible as faint shadows in a sea of murky yellow16:01
Sho_Khertan: It says: Price: 459. Discount: 459. Shipping: 5. Total sum: 464 ;)16:01
Jaffagiskard: Yeah, I guessed that. With whom? Using what? Do you mean the N810 has a wireless connection using WLAN (i.e. 8021.11b/g) and then another N810 connects, over BlueTooth, to the first and uses it to piggy back its internet connection?16:01
Sho_Khertan: So I have no idea what I'm going to pay ;)16:02
KhertanSho_: i ve a total of 13 Euros for an express delivery ... but one week later ... still no device ...16:02
derffugitivo: Did you figure out how to use the code?16:02
Khertanseems they have cancel the delivery16:02
Sho_I've so far been fairly cool about this mess, but I have at admit: I'm this close to just giving up on the whole thing16:03
Sho_*to admit16:03
giskardJaffa, something like laptopt_bt -> n810. atm my ap is dead, i'm waiting the new fonera16:03
Khertani m a bit furious about Nokia ... and hope for us, there is not real equivalent device in other company ... else i ll switch16:04
fugitivoderf: no, does it work?16:04
derfNo.16:04
Sho_They say in order to return a delivery, you have to email or phone them to get an RMA going16:04
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Sho_Of course, they NEVER pick up the phone and answer emails after two weeks16:04
Jaffagiskard: OK, so laptop has an Internet connection somehow (e.g. ethernet, wlan etc.) and you then use Bluetooth PAN from the laptop to an N810.16:04
KhertanSho_Of course, they NEVER pick up the phone and answer emails after two weeks .... same things16:04
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derfFor the N800, I had to call the store and it took like an hour before I could find someone who knew enough to activate the code.16:05
Jaffagiskard: I want to do exactly the same (and on Windows, for when I'm at work). It's theoretically possible, and definitely doable with a Linux laptop. But will require much fiddling on both the laptop and the N81016:05
derfJust double-checking before I try that again for the N810.16:05
Sho_so: (1) It took forever, (2) the process was buggy, (3) I have no idea what I'm going to pay now because the emails and the bill of delivery make no sense and are conflicting, (d) the delivered unit is defective16:05
Sho_Total failure in every respect :)16:05
tableteerblahdeblah: Take a look at UKMP - seems to support both16:05
corona1,2,3,d ...16:06
KhertanSho_: it really a shame for a company doing communicating device to not communicate16:06
blahdeblahtableteer: Thanks16:07
giskardJaffa, i could use the ipw2200-ap module but this solution is too easy. ;)16:07
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Sho_I guess I have to wait and see what they charge the credit card with before I try to get it replaced, in case I have to fight two battles (one about the wrong sum, one about the replacement)16:08
CordSho_: we are also waiting for that.16:08
Sho_Cord: Do your delivered units at least work, or did they kick against each one to punish the evil discount recipients that make them work so hard? ;)16:09
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CordSho_: we got two up to now (out of four). both came on Express and are working.16:10
tableteerSho_: Two devices received here at Guetersloh so far. Both work.16:10
Sho_Cord: I.e. when you switch it on the screen goes immediately proper white and readability?16:10
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tableteerSho_: Yep.16:10
Sho_Alright, then I guess my murky sea of yellow with faint shadows of windows and type really isn't normal ;-)16:11
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* Sho_ still had a faint hope ;)16:11
tableteer:-/16:11
CordSho_: i have no idea. i ahven't looked at those. but my two collegues didn'T complain, and i'm sure that almost one of those would.16:11
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Cords/almost/at least/16:12
infobotCord meant: Sho_: i have no idea. i ahven't looked at those. but my two collegues didn'T complain, and i'm sure that at least one of those would.16:12
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Cordcorona: we need this feature in our bot :-)16:13
Cordcorona: and it is friday. :-)))16:13
tableteerI'm curious about the "real" bill(s) I've to pay. I paid for two devices...16:13
tableteerOne for my collegue not having a CC...16:14
Jaffagiskard: http://www.wifizard.com/tutorialsXP/generic_bluetooth_pan/index.htm looks interest16:14
Jaffa+ing16:14
tableteerEvery other online shop offers additional payment methods...16:15
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coronaCord, ack - and actually it's friday ;)16:15
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Khertanyeah someone pick the phone in the french store !16:16
Sho_tableteer: My bill of delivery says price 459, discount 459, shipping 5, total sum 464 ;)16:17
Sho_tableteer: So I have no idea what's it going to be - 5? 104? 464? ;)16:17
derfNokiaUSA has, of course, never heard of this discount program.16:17
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maddleris anyone experiencing web browser slowness while starting it?16:19
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giskardJaffa, will take a look, fighting against ad-hoc ;)16:21
maddlergiskard!16:21
derfWell, this person was much less helpful than the one I talked to when ordering the N800.16:22
derfIn that they refused to authorize the code at all.16:22
giskardmaddler, :)16:22
Cptnodegarddonkey!16:22
tableteerSho_: My delivery note states the same (expect the shipping costs). But I've a NokiaCare.EMEA-Case open. Seems that the people there have been accelerated. After weeks of no feedback (concerning the question when the discount will work), I already got two mails this week. One telling me the codes work now. And one question concerning the Order No. (for checking the discount/bill).16:22
Sho_tableteer: I wrote them a mail via the contact form about the discount codes last week, and got no reply so far ;)16:23
Cptnodegardstar in the book for anyone who have any idea whatsoever how to make GPE summary white on black instead of black on white16:24
Sho_tableteer: Would be interesting to hear the result of your inquery about the price. I'm wary to try and start the RMA process for my defective unit until I know whether or not I'm going to have to fight a battle about the price.16:24
j0ttSho_: 1 Nokia N810 Internet Tablet 02701Z7 0,00 €  (+s&h...)  <- that's what the final price in their confirmation mail was (nokia.de)16:24
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Cordtableteer: hey, why don'T you use your nick!16:24
Sho_j0tt: Yes, that's what my mail said, too. But not the bill of delivery in the package.16:24
wusel_sho_: my delivery note states nothing about the rebate (see http://blogdoch.net/images/100120081216-cut-2.png), but the crappy mails from that crappy online store say they billed my CC with a total of 13,-- EUR ;) I'll just have to wait for the credit card company to sent me their bill ;)16:26
Sho_wusel_: Same here. Hope at least your delivered unit wasn't defective ;)16:26
maddlerCptnodegard: Shreck!16:26
maddler:D16:26
Cptnodegardindeed :D16:26
wusel_Sho_: It's /me Cord was sure about having told him if the N810 would have been defective ;)16:27
* Cord whistles.16:27
wusel_.oO( works like a charm, my little precioussss ;) )16:27
Sho_don't rub it in :(16:28
Cordwusel_: don't fall in the lava... the guy yesterday wasn't so lucky.16:28
alteregoIt's nice that they install maps for your location in the N810 ..16:28
alteregoI tried downloading them on the N800 but it took forever.16:28
alteregoSo that's handy.16:28
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Cptnodegardturn off your porn downloads while downloading maps ;D16:28
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alteregoNot everyone's a sex pest like you Cptnodegard :P16:29
Cord. o O ( the internet is for porn *sing!* )16:29
Cptnodegardlol16:29
* alterego wonders if he's the only one that changes his tablets hostnames ..16:29
* Sho_ wishes he had a blog to publish a rant ;)16:29
alteregoI actually give my tablets DNS too.16:29
Cord( ---> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5430343841227974645 )16:30
wusel_tableteer and I did some short navigational contest this morning (his N810 against my GoPal), besides the loooong time for any first lock (some minutes in both tableteers and my case, compared to ~30 sec. on the GoPal), it's quite amazing.16:30
Veggenalterego: me too.16:30
Khertan Numéro de suivi :     1Z 5AX 418 04 8004 148 016:30
alteregoVeggen, what have you named your tablet?16:30
Khertan Numéro de suivi :     1Z 5AX 418 04 8004 148 016:30
wusel_.oO( especially compared to that bloddy fake-gps in the N95 ;) )16:30
Khertan Livré :   S GRAVENHAGE,  NL16:30
Khertangreat :16:30
Khertanorder come back to nokia16:30
Khertanthey cancel the delivery ...16:31
Khertangive me a new code for 99Euro instead of 0Euro16:31
KhertanGREAT !:16:31
Khertangrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr16:31
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wusel_.oo( should i try cord's link on the n810?)16:31
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Veggenalterego: storsteinen. Goes with my name schedule internally. Named after peaks/walking destinations around a cabin I used to frequent :)16:31
derfKhertan: At least they admit that the program exists!16:32
derfNokiaUSA does not.16:32
floriannomis: So we feel lucky, eh?16:32
alteregoKhertan, did the email that said the site was ready to take orders from you have a code at the bottom? The code I got when I originally got accepted was different to the one in the email saying I could order.16:32
alteregoVeggen, My N800 is called Neptune, and my N810 is called Proteus.16:32
alteregoAll of my devices/computers have astrologically related names for some reason.16:33
Veggenhmm. Order a n810, I wonder?16:33
Veggenyah, I know I'll want one eventually.16:34
guardianis there another way than mount --bind to share a directory between my home and my home inside scratchbox ?16:34
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alteregoVeggen, they're very sexy :)16:34
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bedboisomeone told me that the "right" way to read data in sysfs without polling is using g_io_add_watch...16:34
bedboinow i have a question: should i create the GIOChannel using g_io_channel_new_file ?16:35
bedboithe fact is that the callback is called just once even if the content of the file changes16:35
Khertanalterego ... yes the site provide in the link16:36
Khertanalterego: there is only one in france ...16:36
alteregoAh16:36
alteregoI feel slightly insulted that Americans pay less for N810's than we do :/16:36
derfWe do?16:36
Veggen3 euro more for express. yah.16:36
Veggen(29 instead of 26 euro)16:36
derfOr you mean, without the discount.16:36
alteregoWithout the discount16:37
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derfWell, maybe you Europeans should print more money and devalue your currency.16:37
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alteregoThat's a great idea!16:37
derfIt's worked for us.16:37
alteregoWell, comparatively I'd imagine that in the US the value is the same, or maybe even more.16:38
Khertanderf> yes but we have stupid president ....16:38
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nomisflorian: I think so.16:38
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alteregoIt's just I see the price difference and I think to myself, why not just order from NokiaUSA?16:38
Khertanthey think a high currency is a good thing16:38
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derfKhertan: It _is_ a good thing... for some people.16:38
derfIt is bad for others.16:38
glassalterego: getting hit in customs risk16:39
glassalterego: woudl have to pay the vat and possibly a small import tax16:39
Khertanderf: it s a good thing for people which have a low value16:39
alteregoglass, maybe, but I'd probably actually order it to a friend or via a UPO16:39
glassalterego: in finland anyhow.. thats if the packet gets picked up by the customs16:39
glassalterego: it might still get stuck in customs.  mark it as books btw..16:39
Khertanand we can't buy from us nokia store ... has us don't ship in france16:39
glassthey usually get through16:39
alteregoIf I send it to a UPO it doesn't matter.16:40
alteregoCustoms have nothing to do with it.16:40
derfKhertan: It's a bad thing for people with large cash (or cash-equivalent) assets.16:40
derfI.e., the people who make the decisions.16:40
glassalterego: upo?16:40
Sho_tableteer: I wonder if I might be able to replace it in the local Nokia service shop instead of sending it away ..16:40
Khertanwe ve no choice ... all company do that ... the conversion is always the same 1$ HT = 1Euros  HT + 20% TAX + Tax on import + Tax + Tax16:40
Veggenwell, n810 ordered.16:40
alteregomaemo.rubyx.co.uk is back up :D16:40
derfAlso importers.16:40
KhertanderfKhertan: It's a bad thing for people with large cash (or cash-equivalent) assets. > no as they invest in company which can't product in france due too too high currency16:41
inzbedboi, it might not work for all files16:41
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glassalterego: doesn't matter what it arrives to europe with, parcel servics, posts.. it might still get stuck in customs unless your friend brings it over in luggage16:42
bedboiinz: in that case the only way is polling16:42
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Khertanairbus which close some production site in france to create it outside the euro zone16:42
inzbedboi, what file are you reading?16:42
guardianis there another way than mount --bind to share a directory between my home and my home inside scratchbox ?16:42
alteregoglass, not if it gets shipped into an AO16:42
VeggenKhertan: For Norway, this is a great problem.16:42
alteregoAPO ,,16:42
bedboiinz: /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/device/lux16:42
glassalterego: what is that?16:42
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inzbedboi, I think the value there changes so much that anything else than polling doesn't really make sense16:42
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glassalterego: and how does it circumvent customs16:43
derfKhertan: But Airbus still owns the new production site, which saves them money.16:43
alteregoAn APO is a postbox for Americans that work on bases.16:43
glassah ok16:43
bedboiinz: i was thinking the same16:43
derfSo anyone who invested in Airbus hasn't lost anything.16:43
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bedboiinz: btw i don't really know how internally (in the driver) they update the value16:43
Khertanderf: do you have see the falldawn of the airbus market share ?16:43
derfI mean, in the US everyone moved their manufacturing to China because it was so much cheaper.16:43
derfAnd all the investors thought it was great.16:44
Khertanderf: same thing in europe16:44
Veggenderf: same here, yes.16:44
glassalterego: i once paid the tax on sneakers for a box that had xbox etc in it..    friend used receipts as packing material16:44
alteregoHah16:44
glassso the customs official opens the box16:45
inzbedboi, they might read it from the device every time the file is read16:45
alteregoI bet they were thinking. "This is a damn heavy pair of boots!" :D16:45
glasspicks up the first receipt16:45
VeggenActually, I think it'd be good for the environment if the largely polluting container ships actually had to pay some hefty environment fee. Right now it's ridiculously cheap to ship something to the other side of the world.16:45
glassdunno if he knew english16:45
bedboiinz: it can be like that.16:45
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bedboiinz: if it's like that than i must poll16:45
murraycThey should just throw it up in the air long enough for the planet to rotate around.16:46
derfVeggen: Because you think making consumer products more expensive will help matters?16:46
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Veggenderf: mm, well. One should make it pay off to produce things locally...16:48
derfVeggen: America tried the whole protectionism thing in the late 19th century.16:48
derfIt turns out it works really badly.16:48
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jkyroit's not like there's no more protectionism16:49
Veggenit's not about protectionism, it's about making the container ships paying an environment tax.16:49
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Veggen(not making it pay off to pollute more)16:50
jkyroin reality, theres16:50
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jkyroa fat chance that the chinese or the koreans would enforce something like this16:50
inzbedboi, shame there isn't any dbus signal sent when the system detects lighting condition change16:51
bedboiinz: i'm writing a small library16:51
bedboithen i can provide a dbus signal16:51
Veggenjkyro: I'm not saying it's realistical :)16:51
inzbedboi, yeah, but they're anyway already monitoring the sensor16:51
bedboiinz: are you sure?16:52
inzbedboi, try covering the sensor with your finger and see what happends16:52
jkyroVeggen: oh, then why stop in shipping16:52
jkyrotax anything that has negative externalities like pollution16:52
bedboiinz: what happens?16:53
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derfAnd who do you pay the tax to? Europe? China? What do those governments do with the money?16:53
inzbedboi, the screen should dim a bit16:53
penguinbaitdoes anyone's usa codes work yet?16:54
derfpenguinbait: No.16:54
inzbedboi, (less light, less brightness needed)16:54
penguinbaitemail sent out this morning with USA site16:54
derfpenguinbait: I tried calling NokiaUSA, but unlike with the N800, this time the person refused to authorize the code anyway.16:54
Takthread on the list looks like nobody's gotten it to work16:54
penguinbaitbut it dont work yet, still zero balance16:54
Sho_Now I tried calling to Nokia premium service shops to figure out whether I might be able to replace the defective unit locally. Of course they don't pick up the phone either, just as the Nokia shop itself. Man, Nokia, as a company, really must hate telephones.16:54
derfYou may have better luck if you get a different sales rep.16:54
penguinbaithopefully soon16:54
NermalI wonder if they all have to have the nokia ringtone in the office16:55
derfI leave the country in 3 business days.16:55
derfI don't hold out any hope.16:55
penguinbaitI thought it was saying it was available, danm16:55
Nermalpenguinbait, now you've done kde, can you port gnome to the n800 please ? kthxbye16:55
derfYou and... everyone else.16:55
pierluxI installed telepathy-idle but the IRC protocol doesn't show in the new account list16:55
j0ttSho_: they work with phones all day - that's why they hate them :).. have you tried to call the main number of nokia gmbh?16:55
Sho_j0tt: Not yet16:56
Veggenderf: Well. Idealistically, I'd like it to pay off to be environment friendly.16:56
penguinbaitNermal, I trie gnome first16:56
Veggenderf: It's not certain it's doable, though ;)16:56
penguinbaitand you got KDE?16:56
penguinbaitso dont hold your breath, not from me anyway16:57
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j0ttSho_: 0234-984-0 they answered really fast, but did not feel responsible (regarding discount codes)... anyway if you insist (politely) of beeing connected to someone they might be able to do so..16:57
Sho_j0tt: hmkay16:58
Takeh, greed-based incentives to act in the public good are failures16:58
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Nermalpenguinbait, ah :|16:58
VeggenSho: I did walk into an official Nokia service center in Norway with my n770 w/WSOD. They hadn't seen such a unit before, wasn't at all sure what to do with it. But they took it in, and I got it back fixed in the end... ;)16:58
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VeggenSho: Not sure it was the quickest way, though :)16:59
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* Tak glad I've avoided WSOD so far17:00
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mazzenany german discount program participant here, who got already the n810?17:01
nomismazzen: yeah, here.17:02
nomismazzen: got mine today.17:02
mazzenhuh, that's a fast answer :)17:02
mazzenme too17:02
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mazzendid you got a strange bill, too?17:02
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nomismazzen: you mean the Lieferschein?17:03
mazzenprice: 459 euro - discount = 459 + 4 euro porto17:03
mazzenyes17:03
nomismazzen: yeah, thats a bit weird. The online invoice is "correct" though.17:04
nomis(I am unsure if it really was intentional to have a 100% discount)17:04
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mazzenyes, that's the point17:04
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mazzeni'm really unsure to open the package.17:05
mazzenwich is *not* easy for me :)17:05
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nomismazzen: pff. The invoice is what matters, you have an Auftragsbestätigung which is kind of legally binding to Nokia.17:06
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j0ttnomis: that's exactly what i think17:07
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mazzenhm... then i guess this gonna be a nice weekend :)17:07
nomismazzen: :)17:07
Khertan(I am unsure if it really was intentional to have a 100% discount) it was not ... they cancel delivery ... and try to get back device which has been delivered17:08
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Khertanthey give me a new code... and now it s 99Euro ....17:08
Khertan+s17:09
nomisKhertan: pity.17:09
nomisKhertan: I'll wait for a contact from Nokia. They have a lot of convincing to do for me to hand that back in.17:09
mazzendepends on if we every be a part of the developer program nomis ;-)17:09
Khertannomis: i ve contacted him ... because i ve ordered mine in express delivery one week ago ... and still no news ...17:10
JaffaYou could always offer to pay the difference, but I wouldn't send the device back once I got it17:10
vegaiperhaps you guys are just better than the rest of us17:10
j0ttoffering the difference would be *very* generous under german law ;)17:11
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Jaffaj0tt: indeed, but as an act of good faith for any future discount programmes ;-)17:11
Khertanbut it s because i ve asked ... else i still have no news ... !17:11
j0ttJaffa: yeah, but as we all know the local stores do not even know of such programs :P17:12
Jaffaj0tt: true :)17:12
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Nermalhow do you reset the device lock code if you don't know it ?17:12
ustunozgur1234517:13
Nermalit's not that :|17:13
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NermalI bought mine off ebay and the guy doesn't know what the code is :|17:13
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alteregoThat's unfortunate.17:13
alteregoPost on itt or the users mailing list.17:13
Nermalhum17:14
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TakI think that happened to someone else (or maybe it was you), and someone from nokia was saying that it has to be done by nokia17:15
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alteregoThat's unfortunate.17:17
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Takwell - it kind of makes sense - you shouldn't be able to steal a locked device and just reflash it17:19
Lynourehmm, I'm trying to flash my N800, but despite it being charged full, pluggish it into charger just starts charging again, and does not switch it on. And flasher does not detect it, but keeps waiting17:20
Lynourepressing home+power starts it, but no green bar, no detecting and no messages about flashing, just a normal startup...17:20
Takare you connected through a hub?17:20
Lynoureno. there is a hub connected, but the N800 is connected directly to the laptop17:21
derfLynoure: Unplug it, wait for the backlight to turn off, and then turn it on.17:22
Lynourewith the home+power combo?17:24
fysado you see the USB/disk mode icon?17:24
Lynourefysa: yes, I did see that, earlier, when I did home+power boot, but then it just continued with blue bar and normal home view17:25
Lynourederf: or just power, no home?17:25
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derfLynoure: I've never pressed home while doing it, but who knows if it mattes.17:26
alteregoAnyone know if it's possible to have a lock code for when the device is turned on?17:26
Lynourederf: all instructions seem to say it is required, but trying without now.17:27
Lynourederf: just got a normal startup. :/17:27
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Lynoureit shows usb icon in the status bar, but flasher is not detecting it17:28
GeneralAntillesIt'll do it without, doing it with Home key just makes it wait for the flasher.17:29
alteregoLynoure, you have to restart it :P17:29
GeneralAntillesPlugged into a hub?17:29
lardman|gonei think home only makes a difference if the kernel is already running (because it's charging)17:29
Lynourealterego: again?17:29
Lynourealterego: the N800? or the flasher?17:29
alteregoLynoure, it shouldn't be booted up.17:29
* lardman|gone goes again17:29
Lynourealterego: it was not.17:29
derfRight, I thought Home was for when it was plugged in.17:29
alteregoIt should hang on the "Nokia" screen.17:29
Lynourealterego: it does not... I wish it did17:29
alteregoYou have to hold down the home key ..17:30
alteregoOr at least, I always seem to have needed to.17:30
LynoureTried that too, first two times17:30
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LynoureBut I'll try again.17:30
GeneralAntillesWith the device completely off, press and hold the Home key. While still holding the home key, power the device up.17:30
alteregoMake sure it's not plugged into the charger.17:30
Lynoureit was not, but I'll try again17:33
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Lynourehow long should I keep holding it?17:34
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Lynoure>2min now, no detection, no bar of any color17:36
GeneralAntillesIs flasher running?17:36
GeneralAntillesIs the USB logo in the upper corner?17:36
GeneralAntillesYou can let go if the device is waiting.17:36
Lynoureyes, and yes17:37
Lynourebut still Suitable USB device not found, waiting17:37
GeneralAntillesYou have it plugged directly into the machine?17:37
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Lynoureyes17:38
bmidgleyI got another email about USA store & discount code but the code still doesn't work I guess...17:38
Lynoureeven unplugged the hub it was not plugged through at any point17:38
Lynoureno trace of it in lsusb, either.17:38
Nermalwewt - found the lock code :D17:38
GeneralAntillesThen there's a wiring problem.17:38
LynoureI used that cable earlier today, worked ok, and same with the usb port17:39
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KhertanPlease respond to this maemo post with complaints:17:39
Khertanhttp://maemo.org/news/announcements/view/500_fortunate_applicants.html17:39
Khertanit was a texrat citation.17:40
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derf"ERROR The requested URL could not be retrieved"17:41
derfPerfect.17:41
Khertan?17:41
derfTheir caching proxy or whatever that's always messing up maemo.org.17:41
LynoureWeird, picky baby this N800, different port&cable did help, nevertheless17:42
GeneralAntillesSomebody poured water on maemo's paper-mache house.17:42
GeneralAntillesThen something was wrong with the port/cable.17:42
derfJust to make sure you can't even complain.17:43
Lynourebut, hmm, not much: USB device found found at bus 004, device address 00917:43
LynoureError claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy17:43
NermalTak, alterego : combination of cat, some devices in /dev and a hex editor let me find it :)17:43
Khertani ve complain ... work for me17:43
LynoureHowever, it looks flashed. Weird.17:43
bedboiinz: in order to get the value in the sysfs updated you have to close and reopen the file17:44
bedboiinz: otherwise the value don't get updated (even if you seek)17:44
Khertani think i ll port xbill with the nokia logo instead of bill17:45
giskardcool17:45
giskardit seams that17:45
Khertanso we can kill nokia ..... !17:45
giskardwith the italian language i can't play video /hear music17:45
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crashanddieHey, I'm having some problems while trying to upgrade the OS on the n80017:48
alteregoI like the way it sometimes takes be 3 times to use the slide lock.17:49
crashanddiehttp://slexy.org/view/s24yBArAGu17:49
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crashanddieanyone ?17:50
GeneralAntillesYou have to be more assertive, alterego. :P17:50
alteregoJust took four times then :P17:50
GeneralAntillessudo, crashanddie.17:51
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dragorncrashanddie: you need -F to tell it the fiasco image17:51
dragorncrashanddie: flasher3 -F image -f17:51
crashanddieoh right17:51
GeneralAntillesThat, too.17:51
dragornGeneralAntilles: I don't think they need sudo, it's binding to USB and finding the device, just didn't tell it to do anything :)  All depends how your udev perms are set up and what groups you're in.  I set mine up to not require sudo since I don't like running random binaries as root.17:52
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giskardJaffa, n810 + adho + masquerade doesn't work17:53
GeneralAntillesTrue, true.17:53
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BlafaselSo, anyone here using the N810 with IP over DNS tools? That would be really neat and I think I saw some packages for that.17:54
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diemanWas trying to use the US discount code at the url just sent to me, and its not working :|17:58
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kbsinghis there a decent Calendar app with a ToDo and issue tracker for the os2008 platform ?17:59
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kbsinghdieman: sounds like something for the lists :D18:00
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crashanddieok well thanks for that :)18:03
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diemankbsingh: yeah...18:06
diemankbsingh: sounds like someone else has already bugged people at letstalk and nokia about it from what i can see18:06
kbsinghnot sure dude18:06
diemanforgot about the lists :)18:06
kbsinghi got my device at the full price :18:06
diemanheh18:06
* kbsingh isnt really contributing anything into the maemo stuff at the moment. 18:06
kbsinghmight change that sometimes oon18:06
kbsinghbut it all boils down to time and how much we can really do and when we can do it18:07
kbsinghgot my fingers in quite deep into a couple of other open source projects, and trying to kick start another one18:07
diemanwow cool, the light sensor is in hwmon18:08
diemanthat sounds fun18:08
alteregoShit, my internal memory is full!18:08
Nermal:D18:10
GeneralAntillesNITs are bad places to keep porn.18:10
alteregoI mean the MTD memory, that holds the OS.18:12
alteregoAll my porn is on SD18:12
alteregoFound the culprit, maemo mapper was using internal flash :/18:12
GeneralAntillesHehe18:12
GeneralAntillesI did that once.18:13
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diemanheh18:14
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nelsondieman: not working for me either.  oops.  I'm sure they're working on fixing it.18:27
pupnik_now that i have a gps i have the urge to go somewhere18:27
Khertanhttp://khertan.net/18:28
Khertanread the news ...18:28
Khertanhave a good week end ... bye18:28
Takheh18:30
TakI'm not really down with all the whining and ultimatums18:30
pupnik_the dpad isn't as bad as i feared - plenty useful for not-fast games18:30
Takor are they ultimata ?18:30
johnxultimatii?18:31
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pupnik_my whining timing was funny.  whined about no feedback, and the next day qgil gave us feedback.  called the nokia store about the missing codes and the next day the codes were active18:32
pupnik_i do note that my N810 is not nearly as loud as the 770 (front facing, larger speaker)18:34
pupnik_so headphones would be required in an environment with a bit of ambient noise18:34
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Spakmanalterego: does ruby-maemo have any ability to display (basic) HTML on a widget?18:35
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alteregoSpakman, 0.4.1 will,18:36
alteregoI'm including support for gtkmozembed.18:36
Spakmanalterego: excellent news!18:37
nelsonVeggen: by the way, it can be less polluting to ship something on a huge container ship, then put it on a railroad, than to drive it 100 miles on a truck.18:38
Spakmanalterego: any idea how far away the newer version is (not wanting to hassle...)18:38
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zoransomeone connected to yahoo imap server successfuly?18:40
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alteregoSpakman, I'm hoping to do it this weekend. So somewhere inbetween Monday and Wednesday.18:41
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Spakmanalterego: great news, thanks again for all your work on this18:45
alteregoThat's okay :) I like doing it18:45
alteregoAnd the N810 for 70 pounds is a nice reward for my work ^_^18:45
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terraceshi. anyone from france that had the n810 discount code here ?18:46
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pupnikterraces: search internettablettalk.com for 'discount code'18:47
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terracespupnik: actually I already browsed it, but I was looking if someone was there18:48
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terracesapparently nokia made an error in discount code and asked the tablet back from UPS18:48
terracesI'm in that case .. :/18:48
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pupnikterraces, the user 'khertan' is in france, but he has left IRC tonight18:49
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terracesok thanks pupnik I'll try to catch him there18:49
zaheermterraces, i know someone who had that issue, order got cancelled...from the spanish shop18:50
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terraceszaheerm: also because they made a mistake in the amount of the discount code ?18:53
terracesI'm not sure this practice of cancelling is legal (at least in france)18:53
maddleris it me? or is someone else experiencing posts doing back and forth on planet.maemo.org?18:54
maddlerthere were some new posts a few minutes ago...18:54
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maddlerbut now they disappeared...18:55
zaheermterraces, no he was told that they didn't know the reason on the phone18:55
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terraceszaheerm: do you know if he had another code ?18:55
zaheermno just one...18:55
zaheermoh i think he was given a longer code before18:56
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zaheermhis new one was shorter18:56
terracesfor the same amount?18:57
zaheermno idea, he didn't use the long code...only the short one18:57
zaheermi have a feeling that nokia don't actually run the shops18:58
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scriptyay, n810 arrived18:59
script*building openvpn*18:59
pupnikoh and i don't agree with people who don't like the keyboard.  works fine for me18:59
pupnik<- fat thumbs18:59
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maddlerpupnik: indeed... :)19:00
maddlereven if a "alt" key would have been useful... :D19:00
maddlerbtw... ttl here...19:00
zaheermpupnik, same, the keyboard size works well for me19:01
|Rw19:01
pupnikpushing 'up' on the dpad does require using edge-of-thumb for me though19:01
|Roops... what is the url for the US code?19:01
Cord1800, friday. no ups. no n81019:01
pupnikbut that's doable too19:01
|R(wondering if it would be useable for canada..)19:01
pupnikCord: when did they ship it?19:02
pupnikMine arrived not with ups but some other package service19:02
scriptwhats the standard-way of becoming root nowadays?19:03
|Rssh in?19:03
Cordpupnik: 9.1. according to website.19:03
pupnikok same here19:04
Cordpupnik: no ups, no other parcel service.19:04
Cordpupnik: where do you live?19:04
pupnikbutzbach, hessen19:04
Cordand Sho_?19:05
Sho_Cord: Berlin19:05
Cordhm.19:06
* Cord in Gütersloh.19:06
Sho_Cord: Ordered on Wednesday, got shipping notice at around 16:30, arrived on Friday noon via GLS (not UPS)19:06
scriptgreat .. openssh-server asks for root-pw at install time .. very nice indead19:07
* nomis today in Siegen.19:07
CordGLS...#19:08
Cordnomis, pupnik: do you know which parcel service delivered for you?19:08
nomisCord: GLS19:09
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GeneralAntillesscript, is that sarcasm? It's asking you to set one.19:10
scriptGeneralAntilles: that's what i said .. no?19:12
scriptGeneralAntilles: i like it19:12
GeneralAntillesSarcasm doesn't translate well over text.19:13
GeneralAntilles(well, lack of, here. :))19:13
sp3000we should ban non-sarcastic comments on irc! :)19:14
GeneralAntillesYeah, great idea. . . .19:14
scriptyay, that was painless19:14
scriptFri Jan 11 18:14:08 2008 Initialization Sequence Completed19:14
penguinbaitwow people downloaded 40206447 kilobytes = 39264.1084 megabytes = 38GB of KDE files yesterday alone19:15
j0ttCord: i got mine via UPS (Berlin)19:15
GeneralAntillesDamn bloated KDE. . . .19:15
Cordj0tt: Express? or Standard?19:16
j0ttexpress19:16
penguinbaitfor 6$ per month, no wonder the website is having problems :)19:16
Cordyea. my two collegues that choose Express also got it by ups.19:16
pupnikwow penguinbait19:16
wusel_.oO( express rulez. sorry, cord )19:16
Cordwusel_ :-P19:16
wusel_8 EUR well spend from my point of view; would've gone mad after all those time and knowing that baby stays in a parcel somewhere over the weekend ... OTOH, I would have bet on standard being delivered the same day as express did, i. e. one day after shipment.19:19
wusel_these nokia shop guys are strange :(19:19
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j0ttindeed.. GLS is really dangerous sometimes.. giving a package to some nearby store and putting the receipt outside on the front door (in berlin!).. happened more than once...19:21
thefoolj0tt: are you afraid someone is going to comeup, take the recipet and pick up your package?19:23
thefoolwow, can't spell today...19:23
j0ttthefool: that would be quite possible...19:23
j0tti was never asked for a passport or id when taking packages from a complete stranger..19:24
wusel_;) DHL like to put parcels on my terrace, without putting a paper into the mailbox ... Easter the whole year over, sort of ;)19:24
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thefoolj0tt: There are people with bars over their windows and doors not 10 miles from where I live, but I have never worried about a package just sitting on my front door for hours on end...kind of stupid now that I think about it19:25
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penguinbait38GB downloaded yesterday and 44GB the day before, holy crap!  KDE fiends out here :)19:29
alteregoNot really, it's just f*cking big :P19:35
GeneralAntilles^19:35
jottwhile true; do wget ...; rm ..; done   :P19:36
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alteregoHeh19:41
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|tbb|could anyone tell me why top > bla.log will log top proccess list  and top > bla.log & will not log anything?19:42
jott|tbb|: i guess "top -b" is the way to go..19:43
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skiburI have seen the darkside of programming.... And I love it!!!19:44
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inzjott, don't do that download loop, -O /dev/null is better19:45
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truentalterego, how's maemo.rubyx goin?19:45
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inzpenguin, I get that much traffic in 10 weeks =)19:46
truentahh i see its up19:46
truentskibur, darkside =?19:46
alteregotruent, back up now :)19:47
alterego:)19:47
truentnice19:47
truenthey i took another look at ruby-dbus.. its not so bad..19:48
truentonly wacky thing was non introspectable objects19:48
skiburreverse engineering19:48
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alteregoYeah, I might attempt to intergrate it with OSSO19:49
alteregointergr819:49
truentskibur, heh whatcha workin on?19:49
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truentalterego, i just made a lil wrapper.. method_missing to make method calls on non introspectable objects.. but the introspectable ones are set up19:50
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truentprobably in a similar manner19:50
skiburLinux on the Wii19:50
skibur:P19:50
truentlol19:50
truentanyone else read linux format?19:50
truentmag from the uk19:50
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scripthas anyone got the SIP client working with asterisk?19:51
JaffaAnyone tried the ACID-3 pre-release test on microb?19:51
skibur:(  KDE looks like Windows Vista GUI19:51
skiburNew KDE 4.0 that is19:52
skiburJust came out today19:52
truentscript, was wondering about that19:52
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alteregoWell, maybe you can do it then :P19:52
alteregoskibur, KDE has always looked like Windows :P19:53
inzkde has always looked ugly19:53
inzand they still do19:53
alteregoIt's all that g*y blue ..19:53
* alterego agrees with inz19:53
skibur:P19:53
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wumpusI like the kde look.. for about an hour, then I want a simple, fast window manager back :)19:54
alteregoKDE developers should have just worked on Win.19:54
alterego~Wine ..19:54
* infobot pours .. a glass of the very best pinot noir from the cellar19:54
truentalterego, well in the process of making my program i needed some dbus functionality.. i'll letcha take a look at it when i'm done and maybe you can refine that part of it for use19:54
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alteregotruent, cool. I'll be interested to see it.19:55
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skiburI will bring back the old school Desktop environment....  Linux + Windows 3.1119:55
truentk19:55
skiburAnybody wanna start the project with me19:55
skibur???19:55
skibur:D19:55
truenti'd go back to pre gnome days19:55
jottfvwm95? :)19:55
truentwhen enlightenment was brand new19:56
skiburlol agree19:56
skiburI stick with brand old environments19:56
skiburlol19:56
truentheh i remember when the communist debian came out19:56
truent;p19:56
skiburWow I thought I was the only one to remember19:57
truenterr became popular i should say19:57
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alteregoI don't like the N810 case.19:57
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alteregoIt's a bit crappy..19:57
JaffaThe pouch or the device?19:57
truentalterego, looks good in magazines ;p19:57
alteregoI think a tan real leather version of it would be good ..19:57
alteregoThe case, not the device.19:58
truentahh the case case19:58
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JaffaThe device has a case. Stops the insides falling out ;-p19:58
* Jaffa foods.\19:58
alteregoThe devices is the sexiest piece of electronics I've ever held :)19:58
alteregoLucky it fits into all my pockets.19:58
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alteregoTry getting the N800 or 770 into a shirt chest pocket ..,19:59
coronahooray - N810 arrived today (germany, wrong numbers all over in the Lieferschein, Standard-Delivery) - just for the record19:59
truentim not buying one i dont care what you say19:59
truent;p19:59
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alteregoI would not have bought one if I'd failed to get accepted into the device program.19:59
skiburPictures in 4 sections of KDE 4.0  ---->  http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.0/guide.php20:00
czryeah, just like me! although I didn't even apply :-)20:00
czrhey alterego20:00
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alteregoHey czr :)20:00
alteregoI got an N810 :D20:00
skiburIt looks like a JEET KUN DO of Windows Vista and MAC OS20:00
alteregoWoah, KDE looks _really_ ugly ..20:00
pupnikcorona: i saw one wrong number on the lieferschein - did they charge you the correct amount on the credit card?20:01
skiburyeah20:01
alteregoskibur, I think that's the point ..20:01
alteregoUnfortunately,20:01
skiburtrue20:01
* alterego likes gnome. It's simple and elegant.20:01
* Tak 1"-punch skibur 20:01
czralterego, me too. well. kind of.20:02
czrit's called N00, but you wouldn't notice the difference! :-)20:02
* czr awaits for the next revision, the N00B20:02
* Tak preorder 52 copies20:02
alteregoHeh20:02
coronapupnik, will check as soon as possible - the store receipt (via mail) says it will be charged with just 5 EUR20:03
* skibur shifts his weight applies a combo to Tak face20:03
alteregoczr, I'll do a swap if you like :P20:03
czrwell. mine costs 125kE :-)20:03
jottand in the end, what this particular mail says counts ..20:03
czrso I'd better take it back at some point :-)20:03
alteregoHah20:03
coronapupnik, wrong number referred to "discount" 459 EUR + shipping equals 464 EUR ...makes really no sense ;)20:03
pupnikon mine, they listed the discount, but did not subtract it from the total20:04
czranyhow, I'm back, maybe will take a look at some more bugs next week, now back to being sick ->20:04
pupniki used a relative's card, so i hope i'm not in trouble :/20:04
jottpupnik: but not in the confirmation mail...20:04
coronasame here ... really poor software engineering on that nokia store if you ask me20:04
jott(that's the legally binding decleration of intention)20:05
pupnikthe confirmation email shows the discount properly20:05
alteregoWell, I have to work a bit more. To get some things out of the way. Then I'll have a lot more free time.20:06
czrooh. just now I noticed the email on maemo-developers20:06
coronaI agree - it states at the end of the email that it's a legally binding receipt - Nokia will have a had time dealing with CC companies if the charge differently20:07
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henriquewhat is this default browser used in maemo?20:08
alteregoRight, time to punch out.20:08
alteregoSee yaz later folks.20:08
alteregoLater czr20:08
GeneralAntilleshenrique, which version?20:08
johnxhenrique, microb based on gecko in 2008OS20:08
henriqueGeneralAntilles, chinook, the one used in N81020:08
GeneralAntillesMicroB20:08
henriqueright, thanks20:09
GeneralAntillesGecko20:09
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giskardcool20:13
giskardapplicantion manger shows camera20:13
giskardbut it can't be installed20:13
giskard:)20:13
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|Ranyone has camera 3.4 installed and have it rebooting the device when launched or after a while in it?20:21
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wndnot causing reboots here20:26
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elbI love letstalk.com (Nokia's US shop): "In order to make sure this phone will work where you live, we need to check your location. This is because different cellular companies use different technologies (such as GSM, CDMA and TDMA) and the phone hardware has to be designed to work on that particular type of network."20:28
inzelv, let (us) stalk (you).com?20:29
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mgedminwhee!20:30
BlafaselHmpf.. Still waiting for my confirmation that the N810 arrived safely in NY for me. CircuitCity claims that it is shipped..20:31
fugitivocode still not working in USA20:32
BlafaselMine's fullprice anyway..20:32
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derfelb: I loved how everyone I spoke to on the phone there first asked me for my mobile number.20:33
BlafaselI hope I didn't steal one of the subsidized gadgets of yours by buying one as a regular user ;)20:33
derfNever minding that this _is_ the US, and we call them cell phones, they didn't seem to believe me when I told them I didn't have one.20:34
BlafaselHuh? You really don't own one or just no Nokia?20:34
derfI really don't own one.20:34
scriptwhy is my mediaplayer not working ....20:35
BlafaselWhy oh why?20:35
BlafaselCouldn't live without it..20:35
derf(The best was when I told the guy I didn't have a mobile number, and he goes, "Okay, what's your cell phone number?")20:35
BlafaselHrhr.. Well, you _did_ cirticize the "mobile" naming here.20:35
elbderf: hah20:35
derfBlafasel: I don't mind people calling them mobiles, it just sounds odd in America.20:36
BlafaselSo that probably happens over and over again.. "I have no _mobile_ number. I might be able to provide you with my _cell phone_ (insulting emphasis here) number though" ;)20:36
derfLike they're reading off a script written by Europeans that nobody has thought to adapt.20:36
scriptarg ... i just "rebooted" that damn thing .... and my ssh is still open?! and the uptime is 2hours?20:36
scriptwtf?20:36
Blafaselderf: Guess what, Germany calls them "Handy (s) or Handys (pl)" in a pseudo-english fashion20:36
pupnikthe germans call cell phones 'handys'  which is .20:37
derfBlafasel: I just assumed he was used to stupid users not knowing what he was talking about until he used the word "cell".20:37
pupnikhaha20:37
Blafaselpupnik: ;)20:37
inzscript, did you have charger connected?20:37
scriptinz: yes20:37
inzscript, then the device doesn't really shut down20:37
BlafaselWe have some pretty retarded names here, yes. In switzerland they are "Natel"s, something build from (probably) national telephone20:37
scriptinz: wow ...20:37
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scriptinz: why the fuck?20:38
derfBut it was still funny that he didn't _start_ with the cell question, if that was really the case.20:38
inzscript, because the charging UI uses X ;)20:38
scriptinz: oh, ok ;)20:38
scripti just couldn't believe that ;)20:38
BlafaselOkay, need to get a beer or two. I hope I'll get my "The N810 arrived safely" confirmation tomorrow.20:39
scriptso that didn't fix the mediaplayer eighter ;)20:39
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johnxheh, well now I have a debian armel chroot wedged onto an SD card on my N80020:41
johnxstill no closer to figuring out what's wrong with A2DP though20:42
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penguinbaitanyone reccomend a good, cheap hosting20:47
penguinbaitnot sure that good and cheap go together that well :(20:48
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penguinbaitoh, with lots of bandwidth20:48
dragornjohnx: The only way I've used a2dp is with alsa20:50
dragornjohnx: and not on the nokia20:50
johnxdragorn, oh, I know how to use it...heh20:50
johnxIt doesn't perform as well as I was expecting it to, so I've been trying to track down why20:51
Takmgedmin: I would like to congratulate you on your new tactic of coercing devs into using garage extras.20:51
mgedminoh?20:51
mgedminthe "I won't use your software if you won't upload to extras" one?20:51
mgedminI'm not entirely sure it's effective20:51
skibur:)20:52
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skiburpenguinbait, which one are you using now?20:53
Takif more users do it, it will become effective20:53
Takalterego: you should move the ruby stuff to garage extras already :-P20:53
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johnxTak, any chance of getting a link to some info about the whole "getting things in extras" process?20:57
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Takjohnx: http://maemo.org/community/application-catalog/extras_repository.html20:59
johnxthanks20:59
scripthm, why isn't repository.maemo.org (without extras) not in the default-package list?20:59
TakI thought it was in the list, but disabled by default?20:59
scriptno it isnt20:59
scriptextras is disabled20:59
inzit's meant for the dev env, not for the device21:00
scriptbut there are some nice things in it ..21:00
scriptnetcat for example21:00
scriptand it would be stupid to take it and put it into extras/ wouldnt it?21:00
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inzPeople who need netcat surely can add the repo21:00
mgedminpersonally I wouldn't mind21:00
scriptand what if there are deps in it that are needed by some extra apps?21:01
scriptsame stupid process would be neccessary21:01
mgedminstuff that's useful both in the sdk and on the device ought to be available in both repos21:01
inzscript, chinook allows you to define multiple repos in .install file21:01
scriptalright, that's what i will do ;)21:03
script(if it's intended or not ...)21:03
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scriptdoesn't fix the issue when directly installing from app-manager, though21:03
scriptafk21:03
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Takthe bigger problem IMO is that a lot of stuff in extras depends on stuff in r.m.o21:06
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johnx'night all21:10
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JaffaTak: indeed, it's a stupid situation. Once we get in-place upgrades, presumably the os2008 (or rather it's os2009 equivalent) will be full of device runnable software which can be depended on.21:12
Takthat would be nice21:13
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henriqueis it possible to install the microb browser in maemo chinook?21:17
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GeneralAntilleshenrique, the browser in Chinook _IS_ MicroB21:24
mgedminGeneralAntilles: I assume henrique means the SDL, not the device21:25
mgedminerr, SDK, not SDL21:25
GeneralAntillesThen no.21:25
GeneralAntillesThere's no x86 version of browser-ui.21:25
mgedminand there's no source either, iirc21:25
henriquehmmm21:25
GeneralAntillesRight.21:26
mgedminpermission to release bogged down in lawyer-land somewhere, I've heard21:26
GeneralAntillesWouldn't it be possible to write a new browser-ui?21:26
GeneralAntillesSeems like it might be fairly straightforward with EAL21:26
henriqueGeneralAntilles, and what about the armel target? should not be enough to run the application?21:27
henriquebtw, in the site the package supplied is for bora, not chinook21:28
milhousei'm about to file an enhancement request to disable the ambient light sensor (at least as far as dimming/undimming the display is concerned - it's driving me nuts) - anyone able to suggest the correct component in bugzilla? kernel? or control panel?21:28
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GeneralAntillesI'd say control panel.21:28
milhouseok ta GA21:28
GeneralAntillesBut I'm frequently misguided on those things. ;)21:28
fysaMinefield.21:29
GeneralAntillesIs bloated and slow.21:29
milhousenp - me too! :) can always be filed under the correct component later, assuming anyone from maemo.org reads it (are they back from holiday yet or still MIA?)21:29
pupnik810hmm id like to disable this input method option that prompts words to click21:29
GeneralAntillesSeems like they're back21:29
GeneralAntillesNokia people have been doing things in there.21:29
fysaWe need someone to take Minefield, strip it down, and build this in: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/125021:30
milhousepupnick - isn't that option already in control panel -> Text input?21:30
GeneralAntillesProbably Control Panel, pupnik81021:30
GeneralAntillesEr, yeah.21:30
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pupnik810heh  thx21:30
inzmilhouse, you might be able to disable it by moving/renaming a .so21:30
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milhouseGA: Would be nice to see some announcements acknowledgments of the problems we were left with over christmas21:30
GeneralAntillesSomebody should get minefield working with EAL.21:30
inzmilhouse, I just don't remember where it lives21:31
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, yeah . . . nice.21:31
GeneralAntillesHa.21:31
fysahttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Xp3mQGOQTzk <- firefox w/kinetic scrolling21:31
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inzmilhouse, try find / -name '*als*.so'21:31
milhouseinz: that would be nice - it keeps on flip-flopping between dim and not so dim even when in bright light, and even when i stop myself from covering the sensor with my thumb21:31
pupnik810hmm  nope21:31
GeneralAntillesThe word suggestion bar is a major PITA with a BT keyboard.21:32
keesjfunny how things change. the battery of the n810 really likes to fly21:32
fysaagreed, GA21:32
GeneralAntillesIt frequently disables the vkb and thumbboard when the BT keyboard disconnects.21:32
milhousehmmm.. ./usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so looks like a prime candidate21:32
fysayou can turn it off for everything, but not just kb mode21:32
fysaI want environment-specific profiles.21:32
GeneralAntillesIt's like QC just completely forgot they were also releasing OS2008 for the N800.21:33
milhousefysa: let's an enhancement request for that... let me get the ref21:33
fysabt kb in, then use these settings21:33
fysapower in, use these settings21:33
inzmilhouse, try to move it somewhere else and reboot or restart mce21:33
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milhouseinz: i'll give it a go, thanks!21:33
fysaI don't know.  there are many things that would be nice to make this a more world-friendly device.21:33
fysaI would absolutely love a screensaver.21:33
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inzwhy?21:34
fysabut for certain times of the day.21:34
milhousefysa: profiles -> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=104621:34
inzDoes the battery last too long?21:34
milhousefysa: vote for it, or add a comment, or both :)21:34
fysai.e., I plug it in on my coffee table during the day, the screensaver should be random photos from my collection21:34
fysait becomes a photo frame..21:34
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milhousethat kind of use case is covered in the above enhancement request...21:34
fysaI plug it in next to my bed at time, (i.e., say after 10pm) -- I can use a different 'screensaver'21:35
fysai.e., a simple clock21:35
milhouseand that21:35
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pupnikbuild quality on the thinkoutside stowaway is totally chinese compared to N81021:35
milhouse:)21:35
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milhousepupnik - is that good or bad?21:35
fysaand have brightness automatically change based on scheduling..21:35
inzfysa, combine that with geoclue position awareness, and you get a photo frame that shows your family pictures when at home and something else when at the mistress'21:35
Taksomebody made a power applet that lets you set different screen times based on the plugged state21:35
fysathen my device could be anything.  wake me up in the morning with a radio stream..21:35
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Takwould be simple to launch a photobook app right before plugging in21:36
pupnikmilhouse: hehe21:36
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fysawith high brightness..  turn brightness down low at night, so it's bright enough to use as a real alarm clock..21:36
milhouseplease update bug 1046 with these suggestions :)21:36
fysaor just give me cron.21:36
inzfysa, what's wrong with alarmd ;)21:36
fysathen I can do any of these myself. ;)21:36
milhouseit's only got 28 votes... may not be enough to convince someone this is a useful request21:37
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fysaheck, I wouldn't mind an alarmd that let you run scripts.21:37
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inzfysa, sure it does allow you to run scripts21:37
inzfysa, it allows you to do a dbus call or to run a command21:37
fysawhere is this configured?21:37
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mgedminGeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but alt-tab'ing to another app and back got rid of it21:38
fysaTak: 'simple,' maybe.  but I don't want to do it every day, then it's just a chore.  (albeit, a simple one)21:38
inzfysa, it's per-event, you need to add your event with libalarm21:38
mgedmins/alt-tab'ing/switching/21:38
Takmgedmin meant: GeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but switching to another app and back got rid of it21:38
infobotmgedmin meant: GeneralAntilles: I once accidentally got the suggestion bar with a BT keyboard, but switching to another app and back got rid of it21:38
mgedmintwo bots?21:38
GAN800Yeah, that's a sorta of fix, but it's still a PITA.21:38
fysaI mean, is there a config setting in the UI that I can use to create alarmd events?21:39
fysaor a text file I can add them to?21:39
fysaor do I need to write something that <includes> libalarm properly?21:39
GAN800I want the thumbboard to not be buggy as hell.21:39
inzfysa, unfortunately there is no UI, I could make one...21:40
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inzfysa, I'll add it to my long and slow TODO-list ;)21:40
Takhah - actually I wrote an infobot-inspired script that replaces regexen correctly ;-)21:40
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fysahow about an /etc/crontab 'importer' for alarmd?21:40
jottinz: the imaginary one?! :)21:40
fysathen we could just use a crontab UI to create a crontab and then import that21:41
inzjott, you mean iTODO?21:41
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inzjott, well, it's only in my head, so you can say it's imaginary21:41
jottyeah the modern approach handling tasks :)21:41
fysahttp://www.kalab.com/freeware/pycron/pycron_screenshot.jpg21:41
fysathat interface would work for me.21:42
inzfysa, I was concidering that, but alarmd and cron work somewhat differently, so I never got to it21:42
fysathat is pycron21:42
Takhmm, so vala is pretty cool21:42
TakI just finished porting everything but the hildon-specific parts of xmaeme21:43
fysavala?21:43
fysaah21:43
fysanew lang21:43
fysa'new'21:43
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fysainteresting.21:43
Taknewish - http://live.gnome.org/Vala21:43
jottTak: does it handle the hildon stuff?21:44
fysaworks with hildon?21:44
fysahttp://live.gnome.org/Vala/HildonSample21:44
jottah :)21:44
Takjott, fysa: yes ;-)21:44
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jotti read about it some time ago. it looks quite interesting.21:45
fysait's compiled too.21:45
Takit might fit the bill for a high(er)-level-language that doesn't impose additional resource constraints (python, ruby) on the device21:45
fysajesus this is really cool.21:45
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fysarequires gcc?21:46
Jaffawhat's the compilation like in scratchbox?21:46
jottbut i guess the "0.1.5" implies some uncomfortable glitches at some point ;)21:46
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jottfysa: yes21:46
jottit just creates c code afaik.21:46
fysabluez/dbus nice21:47
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Takmy vala executable is ~3k smaller than my c executable21:47
* Tak scratches head21:47
fysahaha21:48
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TakI must have reused a little more code21:48
fysaextra headers in a Makefile somewhere?21:48
jottTak: stripped/optimization level/etc there are quite a few factors :)21:48
Takthey're both stripped, -O2 iirc21:49
fysayou did hildon by hand before?21:49
jottor different code :)21:49
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fysahow about memory?21:49
fysaMinefield w/Vala-based interface.21:50
Takthe vala one is a direct port of the C one with minimal changes21:50
fysaor core of21:50
Takhaven't checked memory yet, but I don't expect it to be substantially different21:50
Takhmm, vala 1.5 requires glib 2.1221:50
Takwhat version of glib does chinook use?21:51
cizarro2.10 afair21:51
juergbiTak: only for the compiler, not for runtime21:51
pupnikstupid question - is there a camera snapshot app on the N810 by default?21:51
pupniksearching ...21:51
Takah, hello juergbi ;-)21:51
Takwhat version for the runtime?21:51
juergbihi Tak ;)21:51
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juergbi2.10 should certainly work, it basically depends on what your code does21:52
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pupnikoh ok, 'camera'...21:52
juergbiif you use glib 2.12 functionality in your vala application, you obviously need glib 2.1221:52
juergbithere is no runtime library, so no vala-specific min. version of glib necessary21:52
TakI know I'm not using anything specific to glib > 2.821:52
Takah, that's cool21:52
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fysasomeone should start a code snippet libary for maemo, specifically for vala snippets.21:53
Takyou don't happen to have some vala-1.5 packages built for bora or chinook, do you? ;-)21:53
fysai.e., 'this will display an RSS feed in a window''21:54
fysa(which, coincidentally, is a great application to replace)21:54
* Tak post xmaeme code, "This will launch roms in a chosen emulator" :-P21:54
fysamaybe I will mess with that.21:54
juergbiTak: you mean to compile on the tablet itself?21:54
TakI mean so that I can compile vala code inside scratchbox21:54
fysaI really want an RSS reader that is UI-native, but has "Share" and "Star" that hit Google Reader.21:54
juergbiTak: no, i don't have such packages, it might be easiest to generate the c code in the normal system and then build the c code as usual for maemo21:55
TakI suppose I could compile down to C, then compile the C...yeah21:55
fysafrustrating that we can't read and sync simultaneously :P21:55
Takthe vmware image that the indt guys distribute has vala preinstalled in the sbox, but I'm not using their image21:56
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fysaanything wrong with it for someone starting new?21:57
Takit?21:57
fysatheir image21:57
Taknot that I'm aware; I just didn't have the spare disk21:58
fysacool21:58
jottshouldnt be to hard to make a vala deb..21:58
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juergbijott: vala is in debian for quite some time21:58
Jaffajott: that'd be very cool21:58
milhouseinz: moving /usr/lib/mce/modules/libfilter-brightness-als.so seems to have done the trick - now the ambient light sensor thinks it's in permanent darkness! :) Has the side effect of preventing the boot progress bar from appearing which kind of suggests the boot scripts freak out now21:58
Takhmm - I wonder if I could install the debian-armel packages21:59
jottjuergbi: that's why i said this :)21:59
* Tak tries, suspects he will b0rk scratchbox21:59
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pupnikanybody else have a N810 where the speakers sound extremely distorted and about 1/3 as loud as a 770?22:03
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mooxHi there22:04
mooxHow can i replace the default mail app by modest?22:04
djcbmoox, you can't22:05
milhousepupnik: mine seems ok - no distortion, plenty loud enough22:05
mooxSerious?22:05
`0660yes22:06
mooxMmh22:06
milhousemoox: not yet anyway... modest is still very beta22:06
mooxOk, so i would be possiblewith clwws?22:06
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milhouseok you got me there22:06
djcbin general, it's hard to replace the built-in apps22:07
milhousei don't think the os is designed to allow alternative mail clients - once modest matures i'm sure the effort will be put in to allow that22:07
`0660haven't tried it yet but i bet it's already more usable than the crappy default app :)22:07
djcbwe hope we can think of some tricks to replace the default app22:07
djcbbut right now....22:08
mooxThe blue led is activated but my modest is closed...22:09
Takmeh, deb hell - might as well build source22:09
djcbmoox, it checks your mail, even if it's isn't running22:09
milhouseThe email client should be an optional install the same as Skype and Gizmo... i don't use email (mainly because the stock app is so bad) but if i don't need email I just don't install it. This might give more scope for alternative email clients.22:09
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uliseshello all22:10
djcbwell i guess you can remove it in blue (or was it red) pill mode22:10
mooxDjcb how can it check the mails if it doesn t run?22:10
djcbmagic22:11
milhousewell i don't need to remove it - as i've never run out of memory yet - but that's not the ideal solution... it would be better if i have the choice of not installing anything, or installing the mail client of my choice22:11
fysahaha22:11
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GeneralAntillesModest will be becoming the default mail app.22:11
milhouseone day.22:11
djcbno, every <n> minutes it starts, checks for new mail and then close again22:11
milhouse:)22:11
GeneralAntillesmoox, it uses the mail fetching daemon that the built-in client uses.22:11
fysaeven modest seems a little heavy ;)22:11
milhousedjcb: wouldn't a small daemon be a better opion? although there is a mentality that says daemons are bad...22:12
GeneralAntillesIt is a small daemon, afaik.22:12
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fysaI don't think it's "small" by any means22:12
milhousewhy not leaving it running all the time rather than closing at the end?22:12
mooxGeneral : it use the deamon but with the config from  modest?22:12
djcbmilhouse, we have the alarm daemon, which is a bit like crond22:13
fysaI can't believe RSS reader is using 74MB22:13
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milhousedjcb: right, but why use?22:13
milhouses/use/use it/22:13
infobotmilhouse meant: djcb: right, but why use it?22:13
Takmilhouse meant: djcb: right, but why use it?22:13
milhousea long running, never ending daemon would be better, no?22:13
hachiwhy does it seem impossible to move windows on maemo?22:13
Takbecause it is22:14
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djcbmilhouse, well to no require you to have modest running all the time22:14
milhousehachi: very easy to move on the home page :) (unfortunately)22:14
fysawhere are maemo-launcher pids stored again?22:14
hachiwhat's this thing it does when I tap on the top of windows?22:14
hachiI see the border of the window very clearly22:14
hachiplus the window behind it22:14
mooxHave 2 go.bye22:15
hachisorta like... how things look when you move windows22:15
milhousedjcb: i'd have thought it wouldn't need the whole of modest, just something to check a post box but maybe it needs most of the modest/tiny-mail libs... I don't know really, just seems overkill loading an app, then unloading it22:15
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Takhachi: it just hides the window so you can see what's behind22:15
djcbmilhouse, well, it doesn't start the UI etc., it's pretty minimal22:16
`0660and a battery drainer...22:16
milhouseok - i assume both options have been considered and this is the least "expensive" option in terms of cpu/battery/peformance etc.22:16
fysa/usr/bin/maemo-launcher--daemon--send-app-died--boostergtk--quiet22:16
fysathis is using 70MB22:16
djcbmilhouse: i guess so.... but you're free to come with suggestions / patches of course :)22:17
hachiany of you able to use xchat on OS2008? when I solve the dependancy problems that I can, it wants to remove some of the core apps22:17
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milhousedjcb: :)22:17
fysamodest is C?22:18
djcbfysa, yes22:18
fysa1744 user      65284 SW  /usr/bin/modest22:19
fysadoesn't that seem heavy?22:19
cizarrois that VIRT or what?22:20
fysaVSZ22:20
djcbwell, top is not a very good way to get mem figures22:22
cizarroyeah. so it doesn't really indicate too much about memory use22:22
cizarrotry getting RES then subtract SHR from it22:22
nomisthis probably includes the dynamically loaded libraries, or?22:22
GeneralAntilleshachi, what in the world are you doing?22:22
GeneralAntillesIt installed right off for me.22:22
pupnikstrange, the germany map only takes up 131MB22:25
cizarronomis, amongst other things22:26
cizarroit includes all memory mapped areas, even if they haven't been loaded from the storage22:26
fysaok, 15MB, not so bad ;)22:26
cizarrohence, VIRT is not really indicative of memory usage22:26
hachiI dunno, I have a few repos enabled... it says it can't install: hildon-libs022:26
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hachiand when I make hildon-libs0 available, suddenly it decides to remove something else... which I forgot the name of22:27
hachitrying to get openssh-server installed... hanging on the 'apt-get update' step inthe gui22:27
inzhachi, you're trying to use 2007 version of xchat22:27
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inzhachi, 2008 has libhildon1 instead of hildon-libs022:28
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hachiinz: I'll check, but I installed the varios repos by clicking on them in the browser, and gronmayer.com has been able to detect that I'm on a 2008 just fine every time I've tried it22:29
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hachiapplication manager has crashed now :\22:29
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`0660inz, are you planning to release a version of x-term? :)22:30
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`0660i hate the one in os200822:30
hachiinz: there is no OS2007 xchat release22:30
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`0660i noticed there was some chinook fixes in the svn for it22:31
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hachias soon as I get openssh-server going (in a moment here) I'll be able to use apt-cache policy to see exactly where xchat is trying to install from22:32
hachiI'm pretty sure it's coming from Maemo hackers22:32
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nomisMhm. The light sensor is a bit in an irritating place. /me keeps putting the finger on top of it.22:33
GeneralAntilleshachi, there are xchat releases going back to OS200522:33
GeneralAntillesDid you install xchat from application manager or from the .deb on the net?22:33
hachiapp manager22:34
hachiit's not installed22:34
GeneralAntillesThen you did it wrong22:34
GeneralAntilleslike inz said, you're trying to install the OS2007 version22:34
GeneralAntilleshttp://zeus.rm-fr.net/~skyhusker/xchat-chinook-betas/22:34
GeneralAntillesYou want the one in there.22:34
hachiso let me get this straight, when I'm on gronmayer.com and I go to 2008 and search for xchat22:34
hachiand I get a result from maemo hackers22:34
hachithis version I see22:35
hachiin the 2008 section22:35
hachiis for 2007?22:35
GeneralAntillesIt's the OS2007 version22:35
GeneralAntillesSomebody entered it wrong22:35
GeneralAntillesor there's some fuzziness on the repo end22:35
GeneralAntillesor you specified searching the whole db22:35
GeneralAntillesNo point crying over spilt milk. :P22:35
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hachishould I not be using  'maemo hackers' because of this deficiency?22:36
GeneralAntillesEh, there's no real reason not to.22:36
GeneralAntillesThe GUI stuff wont work22:36
GeneralAntillesbut the console stuff will run just fine.22:36
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hachithis is such a weird contrast, busybox and apt22:40
hachiI'm so used to busybox and ipkg22:40
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hachihttp://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/chinook/free/p/pidgin-extprefs/pidgin-extprefs_0.7-0nix2_armel.deb  Size mismatch22:41
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hachihah, 2 extra bytes in the file in the repo22:43
nick_fnIs there a maemopad+ port for Debian Linux, so I can view my items on the desktop PC?22:44
nomisdoes anyone know if the two keys in the left of the N810 have LEDs in them as well?22:45
hachimine do not light up22:45
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nomishachi: if mine would light up I would not have asked this question  :)22:46
hachiI know22:46
hachibut mine is 2 days old22:46
hachiI doubt I burned them out by now22:46
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milhouseanyone got an n810 on them?22:47
pupnikme!22:48
hachilike I just implied a moment ago, I have an n81022:48
milhousecan you open file manager, then maximise22:48
milhouseit22:48
pupnikok - it's under heavy load atm though22:48
milhouseand then try to unmaximise it - does it work? mine doesn't! it stays maximised22:48
milhousewill file a bug report if someone can confirm it...22:48
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pupnikyes maximize and unmaximise worked22:48
hachinope22:48
pupnikusing button22:49
hachifine on mine22:49
milhousehmm wierd - thanks hachi22:49
milhousei wonder if the ambient light change broke it?22:49
hachithank pupnik too :)22:49
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milhouseyes thanks pupnik :)22:49
pupniktwo tests better than one...22:50
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hachiI can trigger a light change22:51
hachihold on22:51
hachinope, that seems unrelated22:52
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dragornmilhouse: worked fine here too22:54
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milhouserebooted - didn't re-enable the ambient light hack - and it's working for me too...22:54
dragornwhat's the ambient light hack?22:54
milhousewill put it down to a one-off...22:54
milhousedragorn: nothing exciting, just a hack to stop the ambient light sensor driving me nuts by constantly and randomly changing the brightness for the screen22:55
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milhouseRFE is here - https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2755 - and temporary fix is in comment 222:56
dragornmilhouse: yeah I was hoping that's what it would be :)22:56
dragornah wow that's an ugly hack :P22:57
milhouseoh yeah :)22:57
milhousebut better than nothing22:57
dragornyou might be able to make things a little happier by finding the functions in that and making a stub lib22:57
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milhousesaves my n810 ending up in pieces after being thrown against a wall22:57
milhousei'll have to leave that for people that understand that kind of thing - maybe that lib is open source (you never know with this "open source" project)22:58
Jonheh22:59
Jonis hildon OSS? I'd love to put the scrollbars on the LHS.22:59
Jongtk supports doing that but I doubt that has been inherited into hildon22:59
milhousehildon is oss22:59
Jonawesome22:59
Jonthanks22:59
* Jon adds to TODO list22:59
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milhousehildon is now part of the GNOME project - http://live.gnome.org/Hildon22:59
Jonah that's a good sign23:00
milhousescrollbars are so last year btw :)23:00
JaffaIndeed, go bug #2564 :)23:00
Jonwhy do some apps have absurdly wide scrollbars?23:01
milhousebad design, no inter departmental communication, too many cooks?23:01
Jonoh wait, /me reads the bug23:01
hachiI think I like the interface of modest best23:01
JaffaJon: it's a finger-friendly "feature" introduced in OS 2008 for the reasons milhouse mentions23:02
JonI see. yeah, it seems absurd to have such a huge scrollbar in a small display situation23:02
hachiI wish it was offline sporting23:02
Jonoh.23:02
JonI wish it was optional in the mail app at least23:02
pupnikok dosbox is a total wet dream on this23:02
* Jon notices it in the modest screenshots23:02
* milhouse thinks pupnik needs to get out more23:03
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cizarroscummvm already exists on the device, milhouse :-)23:03
hachiJon: you can tell the mail app to download whole messages23:03
cizarrono need to get out..23:03
milhousedragorn: any news on kismet for os2008 - still got wireless problems?23:03
hachianyone know why maemo-launcher might take up all of the available cpu?23:04
cizarrohachi, it takes a lot of energy to launch missiles23:04
Jonhachi: yes. not sure how that relates to the scrollbar - crossed wires?23:04
dragornmilhouse: still got problems.  I'm taking a break from it for a day or two, because it pisses me off.23:04
milhousecan understand that - still no assistance from the powers that be?23:04
dragornmilhouse: unless someone else figures it out, the only way to get wlancond to leave the interface alone is to outright kill wlancond (/etc/init.d/wlancond stop) which is HORRIBLE.23:04
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hachioh, I thought you were saying you wanted offline support in modest23:05
dragornmilhouse: and it still doesn't work after that, the interface randomly drops dead and I don't know why23:05
dragornmilhouse: Unless my power control code isn't changing the power, but wext power control is another nightmare23:05
dragornmilhouse: independent of the dbus/glib nightmare the nokia api imposes on trying to control things23:05
milhousedragorn: bummer... maybe Intel MIDs will be a better option (you listening, Nokia?)23:06
MikeonTVI met a guy on this channel who has experience with the DiggAPI. Anyone here know who to talk to?23:06
Takdbus glib nightmare?23:06
Tama-rroHey, anyone knows who maintains the system icd? (the connection daemon)23:07
dragornmilhouse: Add a secondary level of significant annoyance at the fact that USB worked in the os2008 betas and doesn't in the final release, and I'm awfully cranky.23:07
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dragornTak: The concept that someone might not want to rewrite their entire codebase to use glib seems to have escaped whoever designed some of the APIs.23:07
dragornTak: It looks like it'll take ~150 lines of code and 43 libraries to use the libconic API, and it doesn't do what I need anyhow in the end :P23:08
dragornmilhouse: re assistance from powers that be, I don't know who to hassle that could help with it, watching the lists the nokia guys who are actually working on the device seem to have their hearts in the right place but can't release more info about the wireless stuff because of mgmt23:10
dragornmilhouse: Which means no inject, and I dunno what for rfmon23:10
milhousekalle valo would be the best (only?) man I guess, but i'm sure you've been in contact and know where he stands (pretty much as you said above: hands are tied, unable to help, platform sinks, nokia out of the game etc.23:11
milhouse)23:11
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dragornmilhouse: I fluctuate between being really cranky and having sympathy for them, since I'm in a similar position with other stuff.23:13
Takmmm...autotoolicious23:13
milhousedragorn: i have a ton of sympathy for the maemo developers, but I'm not going to have any sympathy for nokia or the maemo management when Nokia are out of this game due to their own bureaucratic incompetence23:14
dragornmilhouse: The degree to which nokia seems to not want this to succeed is painful, yes.23:15
* nelson sends dragorn a box of doughnuts.23:15
nelsonchocolate doughnuts.23:15
dragornmilhouse: now, something I haven't tried - a long time ago, someone got a hacked up p54 prism54 softmac running on a 770.  Then the p54 project went stale.23:15
dragornmilhouse: Lately however the mac80211 stuff is getting traction and has some form of prism54 softmac23:16
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milhousewould that help on the nokia tablets?23:17
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dragornWell that's what I'm getting at. :)  I don't know.23:17
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milhousei guess a hack is better than nothing at all (assuming it works) - shame you have to do all this extra work though, instead of being able to work together with nokia :(23:18
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Tama-rroI need n00b info: what is the relationship between maemo and the nokia devs?23:20
Tama-rroand do nokia devs accept patches to stuff like 'icd'?23:21
milhousealmost all maemo developers are nokia employees23:21
cizarroTama-rro, yes. file a bug, a patch, and cross fingers23:21
milhouseaccepting of patches - it's been known to happen23:21
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milhousetama-rro: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2006 is an example where a patch was accepted23:22
Tama-rrothanks23:23
dragornmilhouse: I'm cranky about the usb stuff too since I actually had a wispy working well :P23:23
milhousedragorn: milhouse wonders what the hell is going on at maemo.org... seems like they're not listening, not communicating, not working. :(23:23
milhouse(oops didn't mean to talk about myself in the third person!)23:25
maddlerdamn... my power menu disappeared... :)23:26
cizarromilhouse, happens to the best of them..23:26
milhousecizarro: not if they want to survive23:26
TakYou want to begin talking about yourself in the second person.23:26
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cizarromilhouse, survival of us and them, is equally overrated23:27
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* Tak begin long process of building glib23:27
cizarroTak, how long does it take?23:27
TakI'll let you know23:27
* cizarro doesn't remember it taking too long last time he/they did it23:28
cizarrodirect or cross?23:28
Takcross23:28
* cizarro nods23:28
Takmy build machine is aging, as well23:28
michele_Is it just me or youtube doesn't work anymore with the included flash player?23:28
milhousei don't see this platform surviving without maemo.org (too much closed source, would take a long while to replace the whole OS), and they can't survive without us... can't overrate that relationship enough!23:28
milhouse:)23:28
Takhmm, what about mamona?23:29
milhouseis it fully working yet? thought there were some parts not yet working23:29
Takonly a couple of minutes to build glib; I'm impressed23:29
dragornglib is pretty tiny23:30
* jott finally build valac_0.1.4-1_armel.deb for sbox23:30
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Takwhy 1.4?23:30
jottthat's what lenny gave me :p23:30
jotta version bump should not be too hard now with all dependencies build..23:31
* Tak building 1.5 now23:31
TakI'm not doing it The Debian Way, though23:32
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cizarroTak, what gcc flags did you have?23:34
cizarroand which gcc?23:34
cizarro(not that it really matters much, just out of curiosity)23:34
TakI'm using the latest bora maemo toolchain23:34
Takdefault cflags from configure23:34
* cizarro nods and shrugs23:35
* cizarro plays with latex some more23:35
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Takhell - /usr/lib/libgtk-x11-2.0.so: undefined reference to `osso_g_scanner_cache_open'23:38
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Takhmm, if I revert to old glib, I get: valac: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/libvala.so.0: undefined symbol: g_param_spec_gtype23:42
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Tester_michele_: make sure its not disabled23:42
jottTak: my deb (0.1.5) seems to work :p ..23:44
Takwhat version of glib does it depend on?23:44
jottthe sbox one.. 2.5.023:45
michele_Tester_: it was... But I didn't disable it...23:45
Taksend me the deb(s)?23:45
Tester_michele_: yea, that happens to me too23:45
jottTak: yeah but i need to trace the dependency path first (there are alot of other debs in the dir ;-)23:46
Takwhee23:46
jotthmm seems only to be build-deps..23:47
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jottTak: http://sse2.net/maemo/ ..just tell me if there is missing something23:49
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Takvalac depends on libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1); however:  Version of libc6 on system is 2.3.5cs2005q3.2-5.osso12. valac depends on libglib2.0-0 (>= 2.12.12-1osso3); however:  Version of libglib2.0-0 on system is 2.8.6-1osso11.23:52
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jottwhat sdk are you using? not chinook?23:56
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* nelson grrrrrrs at letstalk.com23:57
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Takbora23:59
jottuuh.. :P23:59
TakI'm not moving completely to chinook until HE is caught up23:59

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