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| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: maybe because the sensors are really expensive? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| jacekowski | DocScrutinizer: that technlogy was known 10 years ago | 00:01 |
| jacekowski | and prices went down only by couple % | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 00:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | no moore's shrinking, no increasing production numbers on the sensor | 00:02 |
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| jacekowski | yeah, no research so that cost is gone | 00:03 |
| jacekowski | i would buy it | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | CRT tubes and 1/4" CCD sensors and resistors also didn't significantly drop in price | 00:04 |
| jacekowski | for half price | 00:04 |
| chrissbx | Anyone else seeing the skype client stopped working? It thinks it is logged in, but I cannot place calls and buddies are not shown as logged in when they actually are. | 00:04 |
| Choom | thermal sensors need to be cooled, otherwise they'll see their own thermal glow | 00:04 |
| jacekowski | Choom: not anymore | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's nothing to optimize, on some devices | 00:04 |
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| jacekowski | Choom: uncooled microbolometers were invented over 10 years ago | 00:04 |
| Choom | that doesn't make a lot of sense | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's called PIR | 00:05 |
| jacekowski | Choom: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microbolometer | 00:05 |
| Choom | if the sensor is at room temperature and you're trying to see something coolder than that it won't work | 00:05 |
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| jacekowski | Choom: well, it does | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | Choom: you can compensate for that | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | everything that's warmer than absolute 0 will radiate | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | and heat up sensor | 00:06 |
| jacekowski | more or less | 00:07 |
| jacekowski | it's energy | 00:07 |
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| jacekowski | oO | 00:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyroelectricity | 00:09 |
| jacekowski | i just read that fluke and tektronix are one and same company pretty much | 00:09 |
| Choom | OK | 00:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Choom: when you're sitting in a room with 22°C air temperature and same temperature walls, and another time same room same air but walls have -50°C... I bet you'd notice, though you are evidently higer temperature than the walls in both cases | 00:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | otherwise those gold/silver plastic film recue blankets wouldn't make much sense | 00:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rescue* | 00:30 |
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| crashanddie | isn't that about heat radiation? | 00:38 |
| nox- | thats what ir is... | 00:38 |
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| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: except that the survival blankets barely work through radiation -- their greatest effectiveness comes from their windproof and waterproof characteristics | 00:40 |
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| sivang | something funny about desining voice recognition interfaces: | 00:50 |
| sivang | http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=455559633104 | 00:50 |
| Choom | meh, requires a facebook account | 00:51 |
| sivang | Choom: it does? screw it :-/ | 00:51 |
| Choom | I've been somewhat interested in that subject though | 00:51 |
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| sivang | Choom: shows in a sarcastic and ironic way how the lack of thought about scottish and irish accents leaves 2 bloaks stuck in en elevator | 00:52 |
| Choom | LOL | 00:52 |
| sivang | Choom: I wish you could watch it | 00:53 |
| crashanddie | blokes** | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not really a joke. A friend of mine seen some Universitary dudes presenting their speech recog system on a convention. When somebody with a easern german accent came along and tested it, it segfaulted (aka BSOD'ed) | 01:02 |
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| Choom | I can barely wait for the speech crackers of the future | 01:04 |
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| pupnik | wb javispedro | 01:04 |
| javispedro | hey pupnik | 01:05 |
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| pupnik | any interest in snes9x4p? | 01:07 |
| pupnik | here's the scalers http://pastebin.com/1swmb0gp http://pastebin.com/TpgbVf1W | 01:07 |
| pupnik | don't understand much of what's going on though | 01:08 |
| javispedro | so far not really interested | 01:08 |
| pupnik | mhm | 01:08 |
| pupnik | anybody else interested in SNES emu, here's a nice vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiTD9EMxjMI | 01:08 |
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| javispedro | I mean I don't see what's new about it | 01:09 |
| crashanddie | LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy | 01:10 |
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| sivang | hey javispedro | 01:11 |
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| javispedro | hi sivang | 01:12 |
| pupnik | oh awesome, Ian was working on the meego deferred gl | 01:12 |
| javispedro | why? | 01:13 |
| javispedro | I mean, what do you wanto to get from that? :) | 01:14 |
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| pupnik | i want to run in vmware or virtualbox javispedro | 01:15 |
| javispedro | oh | 01:16 |
| pupnik | http://conference2010.meego.com/session/opengl-acceleration-meego-simulator-and-emulator | 01:16 |
| javispedro | but that has nothing to do with deferred gl? | 01:16 |
| pupnik | well, i think it does | 01:16 |
| pupnik | not sure | 01:16 |
| javispedro | well | 01:17 |
| javispedro | I think a vmware drm was in progress | 01:17 |
| javispedro | http://www.mail-archive.com/dri-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg45658.html -- this says it's already on staging | 01:18 |
| javispedro | so it might very well be a matter of just rebuilding the kernel | 01:18 |
| sivang | javispedro: what's vmware drm? | 01:19 |
| MohammadAG | gnite everyone | 01:19 |
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| sivang | night MohammadAG | 01:20 |
| javispedro | gnite MohammadAG | 01:20 |
| javispedro | sivang: a direct rendering manager -- basically the "new"-style GPU drivers | 01:20 |
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| pupnik | ty javispedro | 01:21 |
| sivang | javispedro: I see, what the difference to "old" style ones then? | 01:21 |
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| javispedro | sivang: a bit long to explain atm | 01:23 |
| sivang | javispedro: ok, never mind :) | 01:24 |
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| Pauly | Hi, im on n900 and ovi store is not working. btw just reflashed pr1.3 | 01:58 |
| Pauly | it says to update my phone? | 01:58 |
| pupnik | Pauly: perhaps you have found a bug | 02:01 |
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| Pauly | want me take a screenshot? | 02:06 |
| Pauly | but the title of the page says ovi store coming soon. | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | double check your firmware version | 02:07 |
| FIQ|n900 | @ settings @ about your device | 02:07 |
| Pauly | 20.2010.36-2.002 | 02:09 |
| Pauly | i know its pr1.3 | 02:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | yeah | 02:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | it is | 02:09 |
| Pauly | ovi store work with yours? | 02:09 |
| FIQ|n900 | dunno, that icon has disappeared from my menu for some time | 02:11 |
| FIQ|n900 | haven't cared | 02:11 |
| Pauly | should be a browserf bookmark | 02:12 |
| FIQ|n900 | ah, there | 02:12 |
| FIQ|n900 | hm... | 02:12 |
| FIQ|n900 | yep, working here | 02:12 |
| Pauly | uh oh maybe my phone is broke | 02:13 |
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| comawhite | Pauly, did it turn into a paper weight? | 02:17 |
| Pauly | no i am currently on it | 02:18 |
| Pauly | im on the webchat on freenode on n900 | 02:18 |
| comawhite | ah | 02:18 |
| Pauly | should i restart it? | 02:20 |
| Pauly | but that would kill my battery | 02:20 |
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| myuu | paperweight app now on extra-devel? | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, for 0.99$ | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | uninstaller: 199$ | 02:25 |
| myuu | lool | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I wonder how long that would survive on OVI, and how many sales actually | 02:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hm, frozen planet. That'd suggest the answer to my previous question is "rather long, 0" | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | oops, if I tried to speak what I write I would hav noticed nobody ever says " That'd suggest " :-P | 04:24 |
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| derf | "That suggests" is more idiomatic, but "That'd suggest" is not terrible. | 04:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | try to speak it loud! Don't come and ask how to fix your tongue after that :-P | 04:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels like a mix of australian bushman and arab | 04:38 |
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| Ryuodjin | can i ask if updating n900 to pr1.3 will cause it to lose all data? | 04:40 |
| derf | It poses no problem for my tongue. | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | Ryuodjin: usually no data is lost when updating by OTA/SSU. Nevertheless a backup by using the backup app is strongly recommended. Also best this backup is stored to a uSD card rather than internal eMMC | 04:44 |
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| pyther | Hello | 04:49 |
| pyther | I want to convert a mkv to watch on the N900 | 04:49 |
| pyther | what would be a reasonable bitrate? THe wiki seems to suggest 300 at a scale of 352:208 | 04:50 |
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| ShadowJK | h264 baseline, 800x480.. dunno bitrate, 2M perhaps? | 05:03 |
| pyther | ShadowJK: ok cool, I actually found a handbrake file that should give me h264 baseline, so I'm trynig that | 05:04 |
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| nox- | hm if n900 would be `fast enough' for h264 why isnt fennec's html5 webm stuff watchable? | 05:04 |
| SpeedEvil | There is hardware accel | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe because fennec doesn't have DSP accelerated H.264? | 05:06 |
| nox- | ah hm | 05:06 |
| ShadowJK | Also if it wants to blend stuff ontop of the video, the CPU requirements go up dramatically :) | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | if it doesn't exploit the hardware multilayered video buffering that obviously is used in mediaplayer, then yes, this would kill much stronger CPUs | 05:10 |
| ShadowJK | The "multilayered" stuff is more like two independent displays, and the video shines through a specific shade of black drawn on the usual display | 05:12 |
| ShadowJK | Flash wants to do alphablending, in rgb, ontop of the video, so even if the decode was hw accelerated, pulling the decoded picture back into the CPU and converting it to RGB is already probably using more CPU than playing it with the media player does in the first place :-) | 05:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's what I meant, yes | 05:13 |
| ShadowJK | nvidia on x86 with the vdpau stuff has nice way to deal with that for subtitles and such | 05:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm sad I missed to start a N900 marathon with IRC on 8 chan over 3G, some 6h ago. Probably I could have reached a new record for battery live, given the fact the internets seem to have died. Solar activity? | 06:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SNOW :-((( | 06:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, the internets not dead, just frozen | 06:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~howl | 06:03 |
| infobot | AROOOOOOOO! | 06:03 |
| Dante_J | not frozen in Brisbane, Australia | 06:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, you're upside down. Take care you're not falling off the ball | 06:05 |
| Dante_J | enjoy the cold :p | 06:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-S | 06:05 |
| pupnik | marp | 06:06 |
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| Pauly | hi | 07:14 |
| Pauly | does any twitter app for n900 have scrollable homescreen widget? | 07:14 |
| Pauly | that yous know of | 07:15 |
| Pauly | thank you | 07:15 |
| Pauly | oh btw i fixed my ovi store problem it was because of hide user agent | 07:15 |
| pupnik | nice Pauly | 07:20 |
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| ddhananj | i m getting com.nokia.package_manager.Error.OperationFailed while installing a package | 08:49 |
| ddhananj | any help? | 08:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | message not verbose enough | 08:53 |
| psycho_oreos | maybe try installing by hand (apt-get) and see if there's any issues with installation, if not, its an issue with HAM then I suppose | 08:54 |
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| slonopotamus | random observation: passing --fast to flex produces parser that is ~10% faster | 09:03 |
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| RST38h | slono: the main trouble is yacc/bison anyway | 09:04 |
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| slonopotamus_ | meh. | 09:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | RST38h: what trouble? | 09:07 |
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| RST38h | slono: performance, weird behavior (usually traceable to something you have done wrong though) | 09:08 |
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| slonopotamus_ | Season significantly affects bison performance with winter feed intake and gain lower than the other three season | 09:10 |
| slonopotamus_ | :D from "bison performance" google results | 09:10 |
| mece | slonopotamus_, good to know. | 09:10 |
| RST38h | ehhehe | 09:10 |
| mece | I'll stock up on high energy food for my bisons | 09:11 |
| mece | erm bison | 09:11 |
| slonopotamus_ | RST38h: well, i'll rephrase. adding --fast gives 10% performance gain to my flex+bison parsing thingie | 09:12 |
| RST38h | aha | 09:12 |
| slonopotamus_ | so raw flex gain might be even bigger | 09:12 |
| * RST38h checks what the magicaloption actually does | 09:12 | |
| RST38h | ah, ok, it does not compress parsing tables then | 09:13 |
| slonopotamus_ | yep, whole flex file grew from 70 to 100kb. | 09:14 |
| slonopotamus_ | RST38h: actually, after some tests, real gain comes from the fact that it uses read instead of fread | 09:17 |
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| * RST38h involuntarily rotfls | 09:18 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: HIIIIILFE! | 09:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: wanna rotfl? --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883071&postcount=441 ff ff ff | 09:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer headdesks | 09:25 | |
| mece | DocScrutinizer, aaahah, I LOL'd | 09:26 |
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| MohammadAG | please take a stone LOL | 09:27 |
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| RST38h | Doc: This one wouldn't pass the Turing test, for sure. | 09:30 |
| MohammadAG | why does microB suck in terms of browserd reloading | 09:31 |
| MohammadAG | if browserd is restarted, it just sits there | 09:31 |
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| khertan_ | Morning | 09:44 |
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| yacc | RST38h, beg pardon, I'm no problem :-P | 09:51 |
| yacc | Anyone got an idea how much traffic skype might be producing? | 09:51 |
| Surfa | depends | 09:52 |
| Surfa | typically not much | 09:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | haha | 09:54 |
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| CableTwitch | Morning :O) | 10:00 |
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| Termana | good morning | 10:03 |
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| crashanddie | sup #maemo | 10:26 |
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| MohammadAG | morning crashanddie | 10:29 |
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| psycho_oreos | hi crashanddie | 10:34 |
| Pillum | does psfreedom work with powerkernelv46? | 10:34 |
| Pillum | heard, it isnt working because of usb host mode | 10:34 |
| khertan_ | Morning crashanddie | 10:34 |
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| * khertan_ is really surprize by his old amd64 3200+ which is currently oc at 3.2Ghz : with only aircooling 55°C ... really good | 10:36 | |
| CableTwitch | What heatsink, stock? | 10:37 |
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| Pillum | MohammadAG: ? | 10:38 |
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| MohammadAG | does fcam work with stock 1.3 kernel? | 10:46 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
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| Pillum | MohammadAG: yes it does | 10:49 |
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| MohammadAG | Pillum, so the problem's with kernel-power, ty | 10:49 |
| * MohammadAG looks at sources | 10:49 | |
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| psycho_oreos | there's a huge thread for it MohammadAG | 10:49 |
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| psycho_oreos | hang on lemme find it | 10:50 |
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| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=58899&page=4 | 10:51 |
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| sjk | how would i edit maemos dictionary (used when texting etc)? there are a couple of strange entries in it | 10:59 |
| jacekowski | that's probably user dictionary | 10:59 |
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| sjk | where can I find it? | 11:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | theres an app for that | 11:04 |
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| CableTwitch | You know, you can measure the latency between replies in coversations here in days, sometimes... XD | 11:08 |
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| phellarv | CableTwitch: sssshhhh - We're busy doing nothing. | 11:09 |
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| CableTwitch | So I noticed. | 11:10 |
| CableTwitch | (Please read the above in about an hours time) | 11:10 |
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| Pillum | lol | 11:12 |
| sjk | oh | 11:13 |
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| Pillum | what? | 11:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | better silence here than another idiot spam on tmo in one thread from one moron every 3 minutes | 11:21 |
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| CableTwitch | I dunno. I like people talking about stuff in here. I might learn things now and then :O) | 11:22 |
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| yacc | Wonder if anyone has measured how much skype in idle mode uses bandwidth? | 11:23 |
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| yacc | CableTwitch, latency of days can be quite normal on some irc channels. It's enough that the core members are all concentrated in one time zone, and during their night you won't get much of an answer. | 11:26 |
| crashanddie | study how long did it take you to as yoda speak? | 11:26 |
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| Pillum | @yacc bandwidth of skype is never constant | 11:30 |
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| Pillum | cause some things on skype are p2p | 11:32 |
| Pillum | like chatting | 11:32 |
| Pillum | so | 11:32 |
| Pillum | its probable that your skype app will redirect other ones' messages | 11:32 |
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| Pillum | MohammadAG: ? | 11:37 |
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| Pillum | someone here with powerv42 and not working camera? | 11:58 |
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| Termana | It did take me very long at all to learn how to speak like yoda crashanddie not. Herh herh herh. | 11:58 |
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| Pillum | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=883645&postcount=410 | 12:03 |
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| chem|st | pong | 12:18 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer51: pong | 12:18 |
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| Pillum | ping | 12:19 |
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| chem|st | pong | 12:20 |
| CableTwitch | Twang | 12:20 |
| Pillum | MARCOO!!! | 12:20 |
| BCMM_ | how can i restart PA? | 12:20 |
| Pillum | PA? | 12:21 |
| FauxFaux | Pule. | 12:21 |
| FauxFaux | s | 12:21 |
| CableTwitch | Penny Arcade? Click on the button that takes you to the first comic. | 12:21 |
| Pillum | Pennsylvania? | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | pulseaudio is what he is talking about | 12:21 |
| BCMM_ | pulseaudio | 12:21 |
| crashanddie | not stop being trolls | 12:21 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: pactl? | 12:22 |
| BCMM_ | also, it's stupid, but i thing my sound probs. start when i boot up with the wallcharger plugged in | 12:22 |
| CableTwitch | Trolling is winding people up, not making silly comments ;O) | 12:22 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: killing it helps too as it should be on autostart | 12:22 |
| BCMM_ | thanks | 12:22 |
| Pillum | pulseaudio -k; pulseaudio -D | 12:22 |
| chem|st | ^^ | 12:23 |
| Pillum | :O | 12:23 |
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| BCMM_ | uh, what is the daemon usually called? | 12:23 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: having stuff plugged in while booting seems to be a problem in some cases | 12:23 |
| Pillum | pulseaudio i think | 12:23 |
| chem|st | pulseaudio | 12:23 |
| BCMM_ | cause i'm not sure it's running | 12:23 |
| Pillum | pulseaudio --check | 12:24 |
| BCMM_ | Pillum: as root? | 12:24 |
| Pillum | duno | 12:24 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: no as pulse | 12:24 |
| Pillum | --check | 12:24 |
| Pillum | Return 0 as return code when the PulseAudio daemon is already running for the calling user. | 12:24 |
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| Pillum | so pulseaudio --check; echo $? | 12:25 |
| BCMM_ | chem|st: it runs as user pulse? | 12:25 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: ps fax shows me a usr/bin/pulseaudio running as pulse | 12:25 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: yes | 12:25 |
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| BCMM_ | chem|st: bb's ps ignores parameters | 12:26 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: then top | 12:26 |
| chem|st | or htop | 12:26 |
| chem|st | well then ps|grep pulse | 12:27 |
| BCMM_ | when i'm the user pulse, it doesn't execute 'pulseaudio' | 12:27 |
| BCMM_ | no perms | 12:27 |
| chem|st | you do not become pulse ... what for? | 12:27 |
| chem|st | just kill the bastard and start any playback | 12:28 |
| BCMM_ | chem|st: you sais i should run it as pulse... | 12:28 |
| chem|st | it runs as pulse automagically | 12:28 |
| BCMM_ | chem|st: i can't kill it because it isn't running | 12:28 |
| Pillum | then just start it again :D | 12:29 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: playback should make it start | 12:29 |
| BCMM_ | it doesn't | 12:29 |
| chem|st | mmh | 12:29 |
| BCMM_ | no audio anywhere | 12:29 |
| Pillum | then do pulseaudio -D ? | 12:29 |
| chem|st | BCMM_: start it as user | 12:29 |
| chem|st | ^^ | 12:29 |
| chem|st | daemoned | 12:29 |
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| BCMM_ | i've tried making calls, using mediaplayer, mplayer, aplay, listening for the little window close noise and so on | 12:30 |
| BCMM_ | nothing | 12:30 |
| chem|st | weird as it should be on autostart... | 12:30 |
| Pillum | BCMM_: already started it via command line? | 12:30 |
| BCMM_ | also, volume keys don't pop up the osd | 12:30 |
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| Pillum | then just reboot .D | 12:30 |
| Pillum | :D | 12:30 |
| BCMM_ | Pillum: doesn't fix it. taking battery out does... | 12:30 |
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| BCMM_ | also, this keeps hapenning | 12:31 |
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| chem|st | BCMM_: then something is hanging up the hardware | 12:32 |
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| WhiteWidow | installed custom pulse audio packages? | 12:33 |
| BCMM_ | doing pulseaudio --system as root fixed it | 12:33 |
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| BCMM_ | this is odd... | 12:33 |
| chem|st | ok just trying like I would do on my desktop | 12:33 |
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| BCMM_ | i'm going to reboot and see what happens | 12:34 |
| chem|st | this is fscking crazy what nokia did to maemo | 12:34 |
| CableTwitch | ? | 12:34 |
| BCMM_ | i recently installed a custom fmtxd and fmtx kernel mod, could that do this? | 12:34 |
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| BCMM | well, this just gets weirder | 12:37 |
| RobbieThe1st | ? | 12:38 |
| BCMM | running pulesaudio --system from the command line fixed it, as in it was still fixed after reboot | 12:38 |
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| BCMM | normally, i need to take the battery out to fix that... | 12:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | Interesting | 12:38 |
| BCMM | as far as i have observed so far: after i boot it once with the wall charger plugged in, this happens every boot until i either take hte battery out or run pulseaudio --system | 12:39 |
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| BCMM | does that make any sense at all to anyone? | 12:39 |
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| BCMM | ah, this time a regular reboot fixed it | 12:40 |
| BCMM | so i don't know now | 12:40 |
| BCMM | i'm still pretty much sure it happens every time i boot up with the charger connected though, which is annoying | 12:40 |
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| yacc | Pillum, yeah, but the moment I've changed from my G1 to the N900, my data usage has gone up by around 900MB. Before it was seldom over 100MB mobile data, now it's over 1GB month by month. And while the browser is better, so I surf more, it's mostly text-oriented stuff that would work fine in lynx, ... | 12:58 |
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| yacc | Pillum, the only thing that I've got "more" on the N900 is Skype, ... | 12:59 |
| yacc | Actually the N900 is nicer because it manages to reliably connect my WLAN here, and while working it routes through USB, so it should have a bit of less mobile traffic. | 13:00 |
| chem|st | yacc: and automatic software update calling down 5-25MB everytime you login (depends on active repos) | 13:00 |
| yacc | chem|st, login? | 13:00 |
| chem|st | connect to 3G internet | 13:00 |
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| yacc | chem|st, I don't use the normal GUI, I prefer to do all my package management via apt. | 13:01 |
| chem|st | yacc: "automatically" | 13:01 |
| chem|st | yacc: not "userset" | 13:01 |
| yacc | chem|st, every time I connect to 3G internet? How do I disable that? Without removing the sources in /etc/apt? | 13:01 |
| yacc | I don't need any automatic apt-get update calls. | 13:02 |
| yacc | chem|st, OTOH, I use it mostly in 2G mode, to save battery. | 13:02 |
| chem|st | yacc: anytime you connect to the internet once a day afair (does not matter if 2G 3G or wifi) | 13:02 |
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| chem|st | yacc: gconftool -s –type=int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 60000 | 13:03 |
| yacc | Well, 2G with 4KB/s max download does not manage more than 15MB/hour. | 13:03 |
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| chem|st | yacc: the 60000 are minutes, there is no way to turn it off I know about | 13:03 |
| PrimeZ | Anyone got n900? | 13:03 |
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| chem|st | PrimeZ: nope noone in here got anything like that... wht was the question again? | 13:04 |
| yacc | chem|st, yeah I figured that 1440 looks like 24h expressed as minutes ;) | 13:04 |
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| chem|st | yacc: exactly | 13:04 |
| chem|st | yacc: it is weird enough that it is minutes but not having an OFF key | 13:05 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: what are you after? | 13:05 |
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| chem|st | yacc: and back in PR1.1.1 the delete button key value for mediaplayer was false... | 13:06 |
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| yacc | chem|st, Yeah we all use other maemo mobiles, that's why the channel is #maemo and not #n900 :-P | 13:07 |
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| chem|st | yacc: sure but it is obvious that the amount of n900 owners in here is >0 just from nicknames | 13:08 |
| PrimeZ | chem|st: the n900 call volume is too low. Trying to see if there's a fix to it. | 13:09 |
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| PrimeZ | Or yet it seems another nokia failure | 13:09 |
| yacc | chem|st, Well, the amount of non-n900 users here is probably not that high. | 13:09 |
| BCMM | hmm seems OK to me | 13:09 |
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| chem|st | PrimeZ: it is only the gsm call volume and that highly depends on your network and the other end | 13:10 |
| BCMM | (the call volume) | 13:10 |
| PrimeZ | both the call volume AND when activating the call speaker, which is nowhere near the ringtone volume. | 13:10 |
| PrimeZ | chem|st: I have another nokia phone here with an incredible volume on both. | 13:10 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: is the volume low in skype/sip/jabber or any other calling software | 13:11 |
| PrimeZ | anywhere | 13:11 |
| PrimeZ | skype/regular phone calls etc | 13:11 |
| PrimeZ | the 6131 i got here volumes are awesome | 13:12 |
| chem|st | mmh check your volumes in x-terminal | 13:12 |
| PrimeZ | I guess its a hardware issue | 13:12 |
| PrimeZ | chem|st: how? | 13:12 |
| chem|st | alsamixer for one | 13:12 |
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| PrimeZ | hm | 13:12 |
| PrimeZ | checking | 13:12 |
| chem|st | press TAB until you see all controls | 13:13 |
| chem|st | put them to 100% | 13:13 |
| PrimeZ | nice | 13:13 |
| PrimeZ | but they are at 100 | 13:13 |
| PrimeZ | :) | 13:13 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: yeah that is expected | 13:14 |
| PrimeZ | shit, now after googled, i guess its game over | 13:14 |
| PrimeZ | :p | 13:14 |
| PrimeZ | everyone complains about it | 13:14 |
| PrimeZ | coplainED | 13:14 |
| PrimeZ | old threads | 13:15 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: not exactly, I have only issues with gsm and that depends on the other end as well as on which network I am calling to | 13:15 |
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| PrimeZ | lol i see people disassmble the n900 to increase the volume, omfg | 13:18 |
| PrimeZ | taking open source to the hardware levels | 13:19 |
| PrimeZ | :D | 13:19 |
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| MohammadAG | sigh Nov 26 13:13:03 Nokia-N900 init: pulseaudio main process (1104) terminated with status 127 | 13:21 |
| MohammadAG | is there any way to debug that shit? | 13:21 |
| lolloo | I get buzzing sounds when calling, do you think it's hardware or software? | 13:21 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: not that I know | 13:21 |
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| chem|st | MohammadAG: do you knwo how to get some sink info out of pulse? | 13:22 |
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| MohammadAG | nope lol | 13:22 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: it is so damn hard to figure things out with all these stripped tools | 13:23 |
| chem|st | on a desktop the user in group pulse is able to configure, on maemo I get for most control stuff "no pulse running" reply | 13:24 |
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| yacc | Worse, anyone got an idea why my n900 does not ring (phone, alarm clock, calendar alerts), but it beeps fine on IM messages (and last time I checked played fine music)? | 13:28 |
| chem|st | http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/WhatIsWrongWithSystemMode | 13:29 |
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| chem|st | just checked it is not normal to have it as gloabl service and I do not have it on my desktop that way, the pulse group is just to be abel to start pulse I guess | 13:31 |
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| chem|st | "much higher memory usage and CPU load in system mode" | 13:31 |
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| yacc | chem|st, yeah, I wondered about that too. CPU okay, it seems fast enough, but memory? On a memory starved device like the n900? | 13:33 |
| chem|st | would be interesting how that compares to a proper usersetup with pulse | 13:33 |
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| chem|st | yacc: that system mode is for embedded systems or thin clients where no real local user exists | 13:34 |
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| yacc | chem|st, well, we do have one "proper" (or not, don't get philosophical about that) user, Mr. "user" ;) | 13:35 |
| yacc | wonder what would happen if I rename the user and move the $HOME, ... | 13:35 |
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| BCMM | maybe they said "fsck security", and patched it so it didn't disable shared memory? | 13:37 |
| BCMM | i don't know whether that's better or worse than saying "fsck performance" on an embedded device | 13:37 |
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| kerio | you should say "fuck those morons, let's have performance *and* security" | 13:40 |
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| chem|st | BCMM: both security measures are off by default | 13:41 |
| chem|st | pulse gives a warning that they arent set when starting on CLI | 13:41 |
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| BCMM | chem|st: not sure i understand - PA website says they are forced disabled in system mode | 13:42 |
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| * alterego yawns | 13:46 | |
| chem|st | BCMM: and nokia managed to enable to have an easy access to pull things around wether being root user or anyone else | 13:46 |
| BCMM | now i really don't understand... | 13:47 |
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| chem|st | BCMM: module loading should be disallowed or even forced to be disabled but it isn't on my n900 so nokia people managed to enable stuff which used to be disabled (forced or not) | 13:51 |
| chem|st | but they did not remove the check part for it so pulse complains about those active modules on startup | 13:51 |
| alterego | Part of the open platform that is maemo :P | 13:51 |
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| BCMM | ah, so they broke pulseaudio's security a bit | 13:53 |
| BCMM | without removing the warnings? | 13:53 |
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| chem|st | at least it looks alike | 13:56 |
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| dazo | Anyone had issues with Media Player not finding songs after flashing to PR-1.3? ... I have quite a collection of songs, in mp3, mp4 and ogg ... it worked very fine before, but after flashing and installing OGG support again, none of my songs are found any more - only the "demo songs" and songs on my SD card | 14:02 |
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| chem|st | MohammadAG: do you know where the actual volume values are stored? | 14:09 |
| MohammadAG | chem|st, you can get them with dbus i think | 14:09 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: and set them with dbus I guess | 14:10 |
| MohammadAG | i know how to set them :P | 14:10 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 14:10 |
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| alterego | Hrm, how can I detect when my app is switched into background? | 14:10 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: I'd like to read all volumes | 14:11 |
| MohammadAG | dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.mafw.renderer.Mafw-Gst-Renderer-Plugin.gstrenderer /com/nokia/mafw/renderer/gstrenderer com.nokia.mafw.extension.set_extension_property string:volume variant:uint32:100 | 14:11 |
| MohammadAG | for 100 | 14:11 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: thats percent then | 14:11 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: and gstr, I am looking for the sink volumes of pulse | 14:11 |
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| chem|st | MohammadAG: as it seems that they are not set to a proper value | 14:12 |
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| PrimeZ | yacc: replace it with a real phone | 14:13 |
| PrimeZ | :D | 14:13 |
| PrimeZ | teh iphone 4 | 14:13 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, isn't a dbus signal sent? | 14:13 |
| PrimeZ | thats my the conclusion i reached 1 hour ago | 14:13 |
| PrimeZ | :p | 14:13 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: don't know. | 14:14 |
| PrimeZ | since 3g, nokia has been an epic failure, and now with the touch. | 14:14 |
| blackthorne | what is the required apt-get repository for zip/unzip tools? | 14:14 |
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| yacc | PrimeZ, well, actually I'm quite happy, you can see how critical phone communication is to me by the fact that I've ignored this little fault for over a week without trying to figure it out ;) | 14:15 |
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| chem|st | PrimeZ: iphone is not a good phone; however, it is a good dog leash | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | well i thought the nokia was good | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | untill i saw my friend iphone 4 | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | which does everything the n900 can, but better | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | far better | 14:17 |
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| yacc | PrimeZ, the N900 is clearly way nearer to my idea of a perfect phone than more "normal" phones where I have first to root them or jailbrake them to own them, which I understand as my right as I've been buying fullprice phones for years now. | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | did u see the gps on google map? fast and super clean user experience. | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | the ui is amazing. | 14:17 |
| PrimeZ | yacc: apple brought jailbreak on themselves, either way, after a small modification, the iphone is clearly far superior to the n900 | 14:18 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, and an iPhone is not even a contender as I need to switch SIMs between different countries. | 14:18 |
| blackthorne | PrimeZ: I really like the iPhone 4 but no, it doesn't everything the n900 can | 14:18 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: it can not do everything the n900 can do. | 14:18 |
| PrimeZ | orly? | 14:18 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: for example, it won't run stuff i wrote. | 14:18 |
| blackthorne | BCMM: you can, though | 14:18 |
| BCMM | (without occasionally bricking during a routing update) | 14:19 |
| BCMM | and i like programming! | 14:19 |
| blackthorne | PrimeZ: you can't do this: python | 14:19 |
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| yacc | PrimeZ, the jailbroken iPhone of my wife for example does not to tethering. The N900 does tethering in practically all thinkable setups. | 14:19 |
| PrimeZ | BCMM: you see this specific trait of the n900 is for an ultra low % of people that actually wanna run thier own apps. | 14:19 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: well, that's not everything | 14:19 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: you just got marked as apple fanboy, and as long as iphone is more a style gadget than a useful item it will be for guys without balls only | 14:19 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: the iphone is not for geeks | 14:19 |
| blackthorne | PrimeZ: flash, you don't run flash better in your iPhone 4 | 14:19 |
| BCMM | this channel is probably primarily geeks, and i think you are intentionally trolling them | 14:19 |
| blackthorne | PrimeZ: flash is not such a geeky thing... | 14:20 |
| BCMM | fcam is pretty cool as well | 14:20 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: export your iphones gps as BT serial device?! | 14:20 |
| BCMM | can you do that sort of low-level camera control on an iphone? | 14:20 |
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| BCMM | the main thing the iphone is missing is something like "cool stuff it wasn't designed for" | 14:20 |
| BCMM | it's hard to hack. | 14:20 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, and I don't think that the iPhone can compete on the browser front either, considering that it cannot do flash at all, I think 10 of the top 10 brands in the US have a website that is not viewable by an iPhone ;) | 14:21 |
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| Choom | 1[6~ | 14:22 |
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| PrimeZ | I dont consider myself a super geek, but im working as a java programmer | 14:23 |
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| PrimeZ | but i dont see myself going into the x terminal with my n900 too often | 14:23 |
| chem|st | most iphone friends I have live at facebook and are easy target for identity theft ;) | 14:23 |
| blackthorne | PrimeZ: you can't replace your iphone's battery | 14:23 |
| PrimeZ | blackthorne: yea that i know, but there are those 3rd world stores that can do it :) | 14:24 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: iphone can't port scan wireless networks | 14:24 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, nor does the iPhone tuxpaint, which made my N900 quite popular with my daughter, but then my daughter has loved tuxpaint since being a toddler. | 14:24 |
| BCMM | (talking of the terminal) | 14:24 |
| blackthorne | I mean, you can't carry 2 batteries with you | 14:24 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: then it is the wrong phone for you... | 14:24 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: wanna sell yours? | 14:24 |
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| PrimeZ | chem|st: im looking for an iphone | 14:24 |
| PrimeZ | but cant find a proper price for it | 14:24 |
| chem|st | blackthorne: there are mobile chargers | 14:24 |
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| blackthorne | PrimeZ: the things they in common, iPhone 4 tends to be better from the user perspective but there are a lot of things beyond that the iPhone 4 can't even do | 14:24 |
| PrimeZ | since i live in a half third world country | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | :D | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | If I lived in the US i had most certainly get the iphone | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | since its only like 500$ | 14:25 |
| chem|st | PrimeZ: 950eur iP4 32GB?! | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | the UI is unmatched | 14:25 |
| blackthorne | chem|st: chargers? you mean those solar toys? | 14:25 |
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| yacc | PrimeZ, and hint, the iPhone does use up battery as any other smartphone when you "power-use" it. | 14:25 |
| BCMM | PrimeZ: hang on, where is half third world, but isn't the US? | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | israel | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | :P | 14:25 |
| chem|st | blackthorne: no mobile batteries | 14:25 |
| PrimeZ | at the moment | 14:25 |
| chem|st | yacc: dead in 3.5h | 14:26 |
| BCMM | i would call the n900 a computer | 14:26 |
| BCMM | i would not say the same for an iphone | 14:26 |
| PrimeZ | it is | 14:26 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, so one of the critical items on my checklist is not even feasible is "having an external charger that can charge the 2nd (or 3rd) battery pack without the phone". | 14:26 |
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| blackthorne | chem|st: well yes, it's not as good considering the volume and the price. Other thing, you may have to throw away your ipod/iphone if the battery dies not as easy as replacing a battery in the n900 | 14:27 |
| BCMM | the iphone is a better fit for you than the n900 if the iphone is a better fit for you than a full computer | 14:27 |
| chem|st | blackthorne: true, didn't throw on that ;) | 14:27 |
| chem|st | BCMM: wrong way around | 14:27 |
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| chem|st | if the iphone is a good gadget for you the n900 is the wrong to even look at | 14:28 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, then the lack of a physical keyboard, which is important to me. But the closed-ness of the iOS ecosystem is a show stopper. I will not let Mr. Jobs dictate what I can do on a phone that I bought. | 14:28 |
| BCMM | what i meant was that the iphone is an easy but somewhat limited experience. you'll prefer it to an n900 if you also prefer it to using a proper computer | 14:28 |
| chem|st | the only thing I am missin here is a magnetic-compass | 14:29 |
| BCMM | yeah | 14:29 |
| BCMM | there is that | 14:29 |
| yacc | PrimeZ, can the iPhone access the internet via USB? Can I remote control it from the PC via VNC? | 14:29 |
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| chem|st | yacc: we can stop now... | 14:29 |
| BCMM | (does hostmode work well enough for us to troll iphone users with it yet?) | 14:30 |
| chem|st | this discussion is pointless | 14:30 |
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| chem|st | BCMM: yes | 14:30 |
| BCMM | have you seen the compass in gpxview? | 14:30 |
| yacc | BCMM, with the power user kernel I think so. | 14:30 |
| Termana | yacc, ACTUALLY it can | 14:30 |
| BCMM | nice workaround for lack of a magnetic compas | 14:30 |
| yacc | Termana, ? | 14:30 |
| BCMM | it shows you a compass with north, your target, and the position of the sun on it | 14:30 |
| Termana | Maybe you should actually think about what your saying before trying to be a smart arse and talk like an idiot | 14:30 |
| chem|st | BCMM: very good at night on a boat where your gps just died | 14:31 |
| Termana | The iPhone can access internet over USB and you can control it with a PC with VNC | 14:31 |
| BCMM | heh | 14:31 |
| Termana | I'll admit, you need to jailbreak to gain this functionality | 14:31 |
| Termana | But it is there | 14:31 |
| BCMM | chem|st: not sure what you mean about the gps dieing, the n900 has gps | 14:31 |
| chem|st | BCMM: the on-boat one | 14:32 |
| yacc | Termana, the USB thing might be feasible, but then it uses non-standard protocols for USB, so I cannot even USB-tether it with my Linux laptop. And Linux is where I earn my money. | 14:32 |
| BCMM | oh ok | 14:32 |
| BCMM | boat is a perfect example of where you don't need a magnetic compass, since you are in constant forwards motion | 14:32 |
| chem|st | BCMM: actually no | 14:32 |
| RST38h | 1 | 14:32 |
| BCMM | oh, currents could cause you to move sideways, yeah | 14:32 |
| yacc | Termana, and jailbreaking phones are so compatible with itunes and small kids that are Windows-trained and press "yes" or "ok" on every dialog without thinking. | 14:32 |
| chem|st | I am at a mooring and turning slightly I quickly need the direction for land as it is dark as hell... just one use case | 14:33 |
| BCMM | but at any rate, in a boat that's actually moving, you will be able to see the vector you are following, and correct it | 14:33 |
| chem|st | movement is less then 5m per minut | 14:33 |
| yacc | Termana, my wife loved that one, because I made her jailbreak her phone herself, OTOH, she survived for almost 2 weeks without a mobile before managing that feat ;) | 14:33 |
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| BCMM | chem|st: yeah, a magnetic compass is useful really | 14:33 |
| chem|st | indeed | 14:34 |
| Termana | yacc, I'm not even sure what you just tried to say, it makes no grammatical sense | 14:34 |
| Termana | RST38h, 2 | 14:34 |
| chem|st | Termana: jailbrake does not count as you may put another OS on it if capable of the coding | 14:35 |
| yacc | Termana, jailbreaking an iPhone is a way more stressy procedure than installing openssh-server via the Application Manager app. | 14:35 |
| yacc | Termana, there are people that managed to put Android on a iPhone, so what? It's still first playing cat and mice with the manufacturer. | 14:35 |
| yacc | Termana, that's not a way to treat me as a customer. | 14:35 |
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| BCMM | yeah, i don't think anything that will make the manufacturer attempt to brick your device can be used when arguing for your device's usefullness | 14:36 |
| yacc | Termana, well, when my wife's iPhone was un-jailbroken by iTunes because our daughter was at the PC, I refused to jailbreak it for her, and she had to google herself through seedy sites to jailbreak it. | 14:37 |
| Termana | yacc, well, I've done two iPod Touches I have laying around (somewhere), and it didn't really seem "stressy". I plugged them in and hit a button, waited for it to finish and reboot. | 14:37 |
| Termana | yacc, right that makes more sense. | 14:37 |
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| chem|st | Termana: the point is that you need to jailbrake it to have some use of it | 14:37 |
| Termana | yacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future? | 14:37 |
| yacc | Termana, not really my observation, my wife lived without a mobile for over a week till she managed to find her way ;) | 14:37 |
| yacc | Termana, how so? They had the first smartphones? I could program my old Nokia E61 with Python. | 14:38 |
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| chem|st | and nokia will use meego in the future now tell how that will lock down devices (I am really curious!) | 14:39 |
| Termana | yacc, locked down as in, you change your kernel you won't access data, certain apps etc. | 14:39 |
| yacc | Termana, well, they might, they probably will do it for some of their phones. But the others are doing things to make it extra hard on their customers today. | 14:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | Being able to run your own programs on it is not quite the same as not bein glocked down. | 14:39 |
| Termana | chem|st, that's a silly thing to say. Android is open as well, but Android phones are locked down. | 14:40 |
| yacc | Termana, You mean like certain Motorola Androids that brick themselves in hardware when you do one thing wrong during "rooting" them? | 14:40 |
| Termana | (most) Android phones* | 14:40 |
| Termana | yacc, yes and then looks at some techniques other manufactures are using | 14:40 |
| Termana | NAND lock | 14:40 |
| Termana | Wiping NAND caches | 14:40 |
| Termana | look* | 14:41 |
| chem|st | ok that is another class for itself | 14:41 |
| Corsac | Termana: there's a large chance that meego phones will be locked as well | 14:41 |
| yacc | Termana, Well, my G1 was not locked down, and I would not accept a locked down phone. Funny not even my wife finds a locked phone acceptable after enjoying Apple's take on customer friendliness. | 14:41 |
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| Termana | Corsac, <Termana> yacc, In regards to the lock down, you realise even Nokia will be doing this in the future? | 14:41 |
| chem|st | well I got my n900 and as long there is hardware there will be someone to code for it ;) | 14:41 |
| Corsac | Termana: do we have confirmation that Nokia will do it? | 14:41 |
| Termana | Corsac, Nokia said they will if carriers ask them to | 14:42 |
| Corsac | ok | 14:42 |
| Termana | Confirmation for the Harmattan device at least - beyond that, who knows I suppose | 14:42 |
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| Corsac | I'm not really sure what harmattan means nowadays anyway :) | 14:42 |
| Termana | yacc, unless you got a Developer's Phone direct from Google, your G1 WAS locked down | 14:43 |
| yacc | Termana, basically a closed toy-device cannot compete with a serious work phone, which in my case means that I can tether through it in less than 1h after unpacking it. (that's the roaming freelancer in me, that's a hard requirement). | 14:43 |
| yacc | Termana, well, yes it was locked down but after unlocking it once, I was never bothered again by iTunes trying to break it for me. | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: could you move a few posts? | 14:44 |
| Termana | yacc, iTunes would have updated the iPhone. If you had done an OTA update for the G1 it would break it as well | 14:44 |
| yacc | Termana, and I could have gotten an ADP1 as easily it would have been just more expensive. | 14:44 |
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| yacc | Termana, but yes, nobody tries to force an update on me. iTunes has a tendency to ask nicely for that. And if you plug it in to a 3rd party PC with installed itunes, ... | 14:45 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: sure | 14:47 |
| blackthorne | how do I add the extras-testing repository ? | 14:47 |
| Termana | yacc, right, plugging the iPhone into another person's computer is not a good idea - that's a problem. Problems are good to identify and point out to show advantages of one thing over another, but talking about something untruthfully doesn't. | 14:47 |
| BCMM | what happens if you do? | 14:47 |
| Termana | BCMM, AFAIK an iPhone can only sync with one computer | 14:47 |
| Termana | so it will delete all your music, possibly apps and sync to that person's music etc. | 14:48 |
| chem|st | blackthorne: same as extras but with -testing in the web address | 14:48 |
| BCMM | what does sync mean? does that mean you can't just use it as mass storage? | 14:48 |
| yacc | Termana, basically an iPhone is not relevant because it does not allow by default to put any SIM into it. It does not allow tethering by default. The whole jailbreaking experience is fragile, e.g. some versions of the jailbreak rely on the PC to do it every time it starts. Fun if you run out of battery traveling, ... | 14:48 |
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| yacc | Termana, well, I had my VNC setup on my n900 on day 1. I've never read or seen a VNC setup for an iPhone. | 14:49 |
| Termana | BCMM, you could if you killed the iTunes daemon I suppose. iTunes runs a daemon in the background to detect iPhones, and automatically starts when you plug one in | 14:49 |
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| Termana | yacc, your first point is US based only. I can get an off-contract iPhone here in Australia that will work with any carrier here. | 14:50 |
| yacc | Termana, plus there is always that funny problem, that Apple seems to have no working download links for Linux iTunes :) | 14:50 |
| Termana | yacc, but I know VNC works | 14:50 |
| yacc | Termana, you cannot get it in Austria. | 14:50 |
| Termana | AustraLIA | 14:50 |
| yacc | Termana, you cannot get it without a special iPhone plan in Austria to be exactly. | 14:50 |
| yacc | Termana, Austria != Australia, I know. | 14:50 |
| Termana | yacc, oh I see, your in Austria? sorry :p | 14:51 |
| Termana | Tripped me up for a second there | 14:51 |
| chem|st | Termana: don't tell you do not know the "No Kangaroos in Austria" flaw at G20... | 14:51 |
| yacc | Termana, but again, an iPhone seems to need iTunes to activate at all. No Linux iTunes, so it's not feasable for to use it. Simple? | 14:51 |
| Termana | yacc, in regards to iTunes for Linux - I think Apple would probably rather ignore Linux because they would see it as a potential threat | 14:52 |
| yacc | Termana, yeah I know, it was funny 20 years ago when some US border guards in North Dakota of all places kept us for hours because they mistook our Austrian passports for badly forged Australian ones. | 14:52 |
| yacc | Termana, yeah, so basically iPhones are not being offered to me. | 14:52 |
| Termana | chem|st, I didn't until now :p | 14:53 |
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| chem|st | Termana: http://202.58.40.60/elements/img/article/638x359/skynews_537774.jpg | 14:53 |
| yacc | Termana, I can easily use an Android as a Linux user. The n900 shines in that role. Emporer Jobs dictates to me which OS I should use to do my work? | 14:53 |
| chem|st | Termana: they put up figures of all prime ministers with a stereo type clothing and put the australian one in a red white austria "tracht" | 14:54 |
| Termana | chem|st, heh :p | 14:54 |
| crashanddie | don't feed the troll | 14:55 |
| crashanddie | yacc, take your trash outside | 14:55 |
| yacc | Termana, btw, Nokia S60 works perfectly with Linux too. | 14:55 |
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| Termana | chem|st, I didn't think our international communications were that bad :p | 14:55 |
| nidO | tbh s60 works well at pretty much everything except being pretty | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ohhh, Friday? | 14:58 |
| nidO | indeed, day off \o/ | 14:58 |
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| yacc | Termana, it's like comparing buying and owning a car (where you can do everything that is legal with your property) versus renting a car or carsharing (where you are basically only a tenant and your landlord decides many things that can be done or not done). | 14:58 |
| blackthorne | my friend the acquired an n900 two days ago | 14:59 |
| blackthorne | already screwed it up | 14:59 |
| blackthorne | with the kernel extras package, I think | 14:59 |
| blackthorne | the new SMS message opened prepopulated with "random" data | 15:00 |
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| blackthorne | other than that | 15:00 |
| ShadowJK | why the hell are newbies installing extra kernel packages | 15:00 |
| blackthorne | he restored factory defaults | 15:01 |
| blackthorne | and then... brick | 15:01 |
| blackthorne | turns on the device, sees the Nokia logo | 15:01 |
| blackthorne | just that | 15:01 |
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| yacc | blackthorne, well, than he needs to reflash it. | 15:03 |
| blackthorne | that's what I told him | 15:03 |
| blackthorne | though I am newbie too | 15:03 |
| blackthorne | just have it for one day | 15:03 |
| blackthorne | still looking for zip/unzip tools and a decent twitter client for this | 15:05 |
| crashanddie | blackthorne, khweeteur works | 15:08 |
| MohammadAG | FCam Error: V4L2Sensor: Error opening /dev/video0: Device or resource busy | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG | does anyone know what that means? | 15:09 |
| javispedro | ebusy :) | 15:09 |
| MohammadAG | obviously :P | 15:10 |
| MohammadAG | it works fine on my device, but not on a friend's | 15:10 |
| javispedro | camera app open? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, my spyware didn't free the frontcam | 15:10 |
| javispedro | use fuser or lsof to check | 15:10 |
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| peb | Hi folks .. | 15:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo | 15:14 |
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| blackthorne | crashanddie: lists support ? dual account? | 15:17 |
| crashanddie | sorry? | 15:17 |
| blackthorne | khweeteur | 15:18 |
| crashanddie | no idae | 15:18 |
| blackthorne | maybe it's going to be my first n900 project | 15:18 |
| blackthorne | a decent twitter client | 15:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what's thp's taskswitcher patch? | 15:23 |
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| thp | DocScrutinizer: the hildon-desktop patch for having bigger thumbnails in the switcher? | 15:30 |
| thp | http://thp.io/2010/maemo/hd-single_column_layout.png | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm | 15:30 |
| thp | you'll find the patches at http://thp.io/2010/maemo/ | 15:31 |
| thp | (the "big-task-switcher" one) | 15:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 15:32 |
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| yacc | Any idea how came that the settings app cannot access audio, despite that pulse is running fine? | 15:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr | 15:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why should settings app access audio? | 15:35 |
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| yacc | Can anyone with a working sound do a ls -l /proc/*/fd/* | grep /dev/snd and privmsg it to me? | 15:37 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Well I try to set a different ring tone, ... | 15:38 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Actually I'm interested to figure out why my phone does not ring, while not on silent profile, and with a volume set that should be hearable. | 15:38 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess one of your extras-devel pkgs is acting up | 15:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lrwx------ 1 root root 64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/760/fd/3 -> /dev/snd/controlC0 | 15:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | lrwx------ 1 pulse pulse 64 2010-11-26 14:39 /proc/798/fd/18 -> /dev/snd/controlC0 | 15:40 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: let me guess ps | grep 760 gives you some alsa named process, and 798 is pulseaudio | 15:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lrn2ask :-P | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# lsof /dev/snd/controlC0 | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | COMMAND PID USER FD TYPE DEVICE SIZE NODE NAME | 15:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alsaped 760 root 3u CHR 116,0 1742 /dev/snd/controlC0 | 15:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | pulseaudi 798 pulse 18u CHR 116,0 1742 /dev/snd/controlC0 | 15:43 |
| MohammadAG | yacc, pulseaudio not started? | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | it's fucking annoying me | 15:44 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG, it's started but even mediaplayer refuses to play anything. | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, what kernel are you on? | 15:44 |
| yacc | Actually it beeps that it cannot do it. | 15:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | pr1.2 stock | 15:44 |
| MohammadAG | I'm thinking kernel-power's causing problems with pulseaudio | 15:44 |
| yacc | MohammadAG, I'm on stock kernel too. | 15:44 |
| yacc | Linux Nokia-N900-51-1 2.6.28-omap1 #1 PREEMPT Fri Aug 6 11:50:00 EEST 2010 armv7l unknown | 15:45 |
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| alterego | MohammadAG: fixed columbus to suspened UI updates when in background or screen locked now, so your battery issue shouldn't be a problem anymore ;) | 15:45 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: fancy being one of my beta testers next week? | 15:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | alterego: \o/ | 15:46 |
| yacc | Is there one process that I can kill so that the whole user interface restarts? | 15:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hildon-desktop? | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, yay, sure :) | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | nope | 15:47 |
| MohammadAG | you need to killall hildon* | 15:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh | 15:47 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: I'll put you on the list too ;) | 15:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | feel tempted to google hildon | 15:48 |
| alterego | I've got three people, should probably be enough. | 15:48 |
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| alterego | 4 inc me. | 15:48 |
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| lcuk | alterego, open source, open testing? | 15:49 |
| alterego | closed source, closed testing :P | 15:49 |
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| alterego | But I like you, and you've been benificial, so you can be a tester too if you like ;) | 15:51 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: could you do again a ps for me? Is it normal to have two hildon-status-menu, hildon-home and hildon-desktop running? | 15:59 |
| yacc | Guess so, the pids are always N and N+1, so I guess all these do internally fork. | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes | 16:02 |
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| yacc | So control-panel still says it cannot play because something else is using the device, ... | 16:03 |
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| Shapeshifter | man it's annoying that people always put their guides in some random forum thread instead of editing the wiki... | 16:04 |
| Shapeshifter | this is a problem so specific to the maemo 'community'. | 16:05 |
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| * MohammadAG opens thread about pulseaudio on tmo, expects no replies | 16:06 | |
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| MohammadAG | Shapeshifter, indeed | 16:09 |
| BCMM | Shapeshifter: yeah, i was surprised by how much it seems to revolve around the forum | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: I guess you rebooted? | 16:12 |
| BCMM | when every other project i pay attention to has something like an IRC channel, a wiki, and a bugzilla | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: wiki and IRC are not exactly troll compatible | 16:14 |
| BCMM | do you mean aren't troll-proof, or aren't good for trolling? | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | bugzilla in fact kinda is, but there's a harsh moderation :-P | 16:14 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: nope, but now I'm completely baffled because the phone app can access the sound devices to make a call. | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean trolls don't like them | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: praise PA | 16:15 |
| yacc | In "unsupported" system-mode ;) | 16:15 |
| yacc | So Nokia took that on them to support themselves, but yes, PA is usually a PITA. | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | I get lags of up to WEEKS(!!) for desktop event sounds, on my PA enabled laptop | 16:16 |
| yacc | WEEKS? | 16:16 |
| BCMM | DocScrutinizer: what? | 16:17 |
| BCMM | you mean it actually plays a sound several weeks later? | 16:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | not several but more than 7 days sometimes, yes | 16:17 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: wow | 16:17 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Although when I send a SMS once to a collegue in Australia, he got it 2 weeks later too. (And came online in emergency mode because the SMS alerted him to the fact that the production servers are down. Well had been down two weeks earlier). | 16:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 16:19 |
| alterego | Heh | 16:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, there's no guaranteed time to delivery for SMS | 16:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's just a timeOUT you can set for SMS | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | SMS never meant to be a realtime thing, just like mail | 16:21 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: yeah, although there is a "timeout" functionality, where you can set how long delivery trials should be done. OTOH, most modern phones do not know how to set this property. | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: :-/ | 16:22 |
| alterego | Bloody apt-worker ruining my development. | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 16:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | is it rewriting your code? | 16:22 |
| alterego | No, stops me installing my packages. | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | heuristic QA | 16:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | does it install a "****" icon instead? | 16:24 |
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| * DocScrutinizer ponders a patch to HAM that replaces random installs by installing a ">>BEEP<<" pkg instead :-D | 16:26 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, and my paperweight app for OVI needs some work :-D | 16:29 |
| * DocScrutinizer feeling so Friday. Any other BS to invent? | 16:30 | |
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| alterego | Heh | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe a server with a blacklist holding (user, regex) tuples, for HAM to look up for user names that aren't allowed to install packages matching regex. Mad usefull to deal with tmo lemmings | 16:32 |
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| BCMM | hehe | 16:32 |
| alterego | Where does HAM get usernames from though? :P | 16:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's the trick | 16:33 |
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| chem|st | maehehhe I think I am in need of some new soldering coil for smd... one volume button does not work not even after proper cleaning | 16:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | messaging, mail, a few other config data to skim | 16:33 |
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| CableTwitch | You knackered your volume rocker? | 16:34 |
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| alterego | I should probably come up with a better way to store GPS telemetry .. | 16:34 |
| chem|st | CableTwitch: 0.5L wheat-beer-coke mix direct hit | 16:34 |
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| CableTwitch | Wow. Are you competing with MohammadAG to see who can wreck their device fastest? ;O) | 16:35 |
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| CableTwitch | (I'm winning, btw... I'll be on my 3rd when it gets back from the Nokia Wrecking Shop) | 16:35 |
| alterego | Actually, maybe I Don't. | 16:36 |
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| BCMM | alterego: better than what? | 16:36 |
| alterego | Well, I've created a TelemetryModel which inherits QAbstractTableModel | 16:36 |
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| alterego | Which basically stores positional information in a QList | 16:37 |
| chem|st | CableTwitch: my first... no scratch no nothing but a glass of beer in 11month... | 16:37 |
| chem|st | CableTwitch: and I am not that carefull but my last phone survived 3 years without a scratch on the display and I opened up bottles with it | 16:38 |
| alterego | I should do some load tests .. | 16:38 |
| CableTwitch | See, opening bottles with an N900? Thats not a good thing to be doing ;O) | 16:38 |
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| chem|st | CableTwitch: it survived the beer attack pretty good, first the display was always on then the button started to tinker and so on everything back to normal but a few days ago the button refused to work anymore | 16:40 |
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| BCMM | alterego: also, what are you using telemetry for? | 16:40 |
| BCMM | are you building an n900-based UAV? | 16:40 |
| alterego | BCMM: storing positional and lock information for rendering to my widgets. | 16:41 |
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| alterego | Like the trackview | 16:41 |
| alterego | And the accuracy graph. | 16:41 |
| chem|st | CableTwitch: I was thinking of modifying the back with a hardened aluminium frame to have it as universal bottle opener (actual idea was a plug'n'play carmount but that looks just like a bottleopener) | 16:41 |
| alterego | Basically all the widgets that display historical information :P | 16:41 |
| BCMM | alterego: are you using a different meaning of telemetry than i expect? | 16:41 |
| BCMM | chem|st: i choose to read that as "bear attack" | 16:41 |
| chem|st | ehehe | 16:41 |
| alterego | BCMM: probably. | 16:41 |
| alterego | I'm talking about GPS positional data. | 16:42 |
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| BCMM | alterego: telemetry would usually be remote collection of data | 16:42 |
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| chem|st | BCMM: once I got the replacement I may try the wheely and after that the bear attack | 16:42 |
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| CableTwitch | "Modify the bear attack"... | 16:42 |
| BCMM | alterego: e.g. GPS position of a scientific balloon or something | 16:42 |
| alterego | BCMM: yes, you're right. | 16:42 |
| alterego | BCMM: I do stream over UDP or TCP/IP ;) | 16:43 |
| BCMM | chem|st: wouldn't an aluminium backplate wear down the other bit of the plastic body where it made contact? | 16:43 |
| alterego | But yes, this is a local issue. | 16:43 |
| BCMM | alterego: you're turning the n900 into a GPS bug? | 16:43 |
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| alterego | BCMM: no my app can just be used as a bluetooth or network connected GPS. | 16:43 |
| BCMM | i think i see | 16:44 |
| alterego | It has that capability built on top of its' data logging. | 16:44 |
| alterego | (logs to file too) | 16:44 |
| BCMM | oh, you could use the n900 like a bluetooth GPS adaptor for a PC? | 16:44 |
| alterego | BCMM: exactly, | 16:44 |
| BCMM | that's a good idea | 16:44 |
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| alterego | I'm testing with an N810 though ^.^ | 16:44 |
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| MohammadAG | I'm gonna ask politely | 16:46 |
| MohammadAG | WHO THE FUCK OPTIFIES LIBRARIES | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | why not | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | they take up space too :/ | 16:47 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: it would be fine, if they're in a "standard" location, like /opt/usr/lib | 16:47 |
| alterego | and /opt/lib | 16:47 |
| MohammadAG | cause i've been pulseaudio-less for a week because of it | 16:47 |
| ShadowJK | /opt/maemo/lib :) | 16:47 |
| MohammadAG | libflac8 | 16:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, so what? | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | oh nice, does that mean ogg-support has finally been optified? it eats so much space on / :( | 16:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | who DOES NOT optify libraries? | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~optification | 16:48 |
| infobot | [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish somebody had looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", or http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 sentence3 | 16:48 |
| MohammadAG | i have no idea, but pulseaudio doesn't start | 16:48 |
| ShadowJK | I wish base os was /usr and on nand, and extra stuff in /usr/maemoorg/ or something, on emmc | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | so to me it seems the right question is: "WHO T F DOES NOT KNOW HOW TO OPTIFY CORRECTLY?" | 16:50 |
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| alterego | I'd say /usr on nand and /usr/local on emmc | 16:51 |
| alterego | Makes more sense .. | 16:51 |
| alterego | (at least to me) | 16:51 |
| GAN900 | I don't think many people are being polite here. :P | 16:51 |
| ShadowJK | it's okay, MeeGo is going to be on emmc/sd only, so then we either need devices with 1-2gig ram, or go on a massive microsdhc treasurehunt trying to find one that's fast (and class rating sucks) | 16:52 |
| CableTwitch | This is unusual how? | 16:52 |
| ShadowJK | alterego, yeah that'd be fine too | 16:52 |
| CableTwitch | Mo, did you manage to find any RAM modules that would work with the 900? | 16:52 |
| CableTwitch | I'd be interested in seeing how viable a self-service upgrade to system memory could be. | 16:53 |
| ShadowJK | well the ram is soldered onto the cpu | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | CableTwitch: Forget about it, really. | 16:53 |
| CableTwitch | Yeah, I kinda forgot about that bit... XD | 16:53 |
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| MohammadAG | CableTwitch, nope | 16:54 |
| alterego | USB is faster than WiFi right? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: what's the use of having /usr on NAND? o.O | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | CableTwitch, and if I did, I won't replace it | 16:54 |
| CableTwitch | I forget... is the CPU BGA? | 16:54 |
| ajf_ | I'm on Vodafone UK and I upgraded to PR 1.3, since then my phone keeps losing signal and needs a reboot to get it back. Has anyone heard of this? | 16:54 |
| SpeedEvil | USB may or may not be faster than wifi | 16:54 |
| GAN900 | If you're good at BGA soldering you can source PoPs for reasonable prices in lots of 1000. | 16:54 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, yes, should be | 16:54 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: because it's quicker for system stuff? | 16:54 |
| GAN900 | CableTwitch, CPU and the PoP | 16:54 |
| CableTwitch | Yay | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: irrelevant | 16:54 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah, want to be able to page in the phone UI faster :) | 16:54 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: say a USB 2 memory stick or hard drive and data transfer over WiFi | 16:54 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: USB will usually be faster | 16:55 |
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| alterego | DocScrutinizer: how is a justification irrelevant? | 16:55 |
| alterego | O_o | 16:55 |
| alterego | Why don't you come up with a reason against it. | 16:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: FHS isn't for anybody and his dog inventing random new schemes. Learn to do proper system architecture | 16:56 |
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| alterego | O_O | 16:56 |
| alterego | What is that supposed to mean? | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | I guess we'll go back to /opt/vendor/ then | 16:57 |
| alterego | /usr is for core applications and /usr/local is for system wide installed applications | 16:57 |
| alterego | (by the sysadmin) | 16:57 |
| alterego | Which in this case is the user. | 16:57 |
| ShadowJK | I prefer NetBSD's /usr for system, /usr/local for things you compile yourself, /usr/pkg for things from packag tree :-) | 16:58 |
| alterego | To me, it seems better to use /usr/local than have a load of /opt/blah directories | 16:58 |
| alterego | At least then we can have a consistent entry in ld.so.conf | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | and tbh I happily rade in 20% speed loss on accessing /usr (and *only* on accessing /usr) for that mindboggling optification | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG | Back to the original problem :P | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG | /opt isn't ready when pulseaudio starts | 16:58 |
| chem|st | BCMM: so what? the backpanel is about 20€ but why would it wear down? | 16:58 |
| MohammadAG | thus, an optified library won't work | 16:59 |
| MohammadAG | libflac8 shouldn't be opified | 16:59 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: unneccesarry. | 16:59 |
| ShadowJK | submit bugreport against pulseaudio :D | 16:59 |
| alterego | We can have both | 16:59 |
| alterego | A sane architecture and the performance we have now. | 16:59 |
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| Venemo_N900 | why does modest have to be such a piece o' crap? | 17:00 |
| alterego | /usr/local over /opt just seems more intuitive to me, I don't know why they didn't do it. | 17:00 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, why not against libflac8 | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | I never understood why all the linuxen are mixing system packages and user installed packages anyway, though it hasn't ever had a well defined system border either, except on things like meego and maemo | 17:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: then the library is ill placed. It has to go to /lib then, rather than /usr/lib | 17:00 |
| ShadowJK | MohammadAG, because / is precious | 17:00 |
| Venemo_N900 | hi guys | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG | 300K/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 seriously... | 17:01 |
| MohammadAG | it's only 300k | 17:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | what's up? | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, pulseaudio loads from /usr/bin, obviously, /usr/lib is there when it starts | 17:02 |
| MohammadAG | hey Venemo_N900 | 17:02 |
| Venemo_N900 | hello MohammadAG :) | 17:02 |
| alterego | brb | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | that's a cool strategy, split something up into 100 libraries and say "it's just 300k" for evrry one :) (this is actually the reason why ogg-support has gigantic / use) | 17:03 |
| * Venemo_N900 is on a train again | 17:03 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so which noob moved a lib to /opt generically, without proper symlink from /usr/lib? | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: what you say doesn't make sense to me | 17:03 |
| MohammadAG | it is symlinked, but /opt won't be ready at that time so the symlinks is pointless | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | and the maintainer is mikkov | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the definition of /usr is it gets mounted later | 17:04 |
| MohammadAG | and /opt gets mounted even after that | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | so anything needing stuff prior to mounting /usr needs to go to the corresponding root directories | 17:05 |
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| * chem|st likes dependencies based boot | 17:05 | |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: you're arguing with "we did that bad thing, so we now should tweak all pkg to make use of it" | 17:06 |
| MohammadAG | huh? what? | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | read FHS | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | i'm just saying libflac8 shouldn't be optified | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | understand what's the rationale behind /usr | 17:07 |
| MohammadAG | pulseaudio is started BEFORE /opt is mounted | 17:08 |
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| chem|st | MohammadAG: then make it mount earlier | 17:08 |
| chem|st | it is dumb setup anyways | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | And I told you /opt is irrelevant, as it's really /usr that shouldn't be used before it gets mounted. Nobody cares about maemo that didn't understand that and instead invented optification | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, and wait for a new PR | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if PA is started early it has to go to /bin /lib /sbin etc, NOT to their /usr/* counterparts | 17:09 |
| MohammadAG | PA is started from /usr/bin... | 17:10 |
| MohammadAG | /usr would be mounted duh | 17:10 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: afair my debian does mount anything itself if in fstab on auto etc if called earlier than normal | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | SO WHAT???!!! THIS IS WROOOOONG | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH! | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: had a booze night yesterday, or what? | 17:11 |
| MohammadAG | I think we can both agree it shouldn't be in /opt with a symlink in /usr/lib | 17:11 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: did you mean /usr should not be used before /opt is mounted? | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: irrelevant | 17:12 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, no, I have 20 missed calls and 10 silent ones because of a damn lib that shouldn't be optified | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | the definition of /usr is it MUST NOT be used for system relevant and early things | 17:12 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: pulse is not system relevant... | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | but early | 17:13 |
| chem|st | true | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | vim also isn't system relevant | 17:13 |
| chem|st | actualy the call isn't that early... | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | pa is started after /usr is mounted and before /opt is mounted | 17:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | read FHS | 17:13 |
| MohammadAG | regardless, the module should not be optified | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously as it MUST NOT go into /usr | 17:14 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: it should be but /opt should be mounted before any /usr call | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they want to use it early | 17:14 |
| nicolai | the interesting question is, why does pulse needs libflac. | 17:14 |
| MohammadAG | nicolai, ldd shows that it's tied to it | 17:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nicolai: ++ | 17:15 |
| nicolai | yes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it | 17:15 |
| MohammadAG | libFLAC.so.8 => /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8 (0x4060a000) | 17:15 |
| chem|st | the bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway | 17:15 |
| MohammadAG | nicolai, err, what? | 17:16 |
| MohammadAG | so something is replacing pulseaudio? | 17:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: congrats, now we're two | 17:16 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: since march... | 17:16 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: properly using pulse would be one idea | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wouldn't be surprised to find that being a side effect in powerkernel (libflac) | 17:17 |
| alterego | Hrm .. | 17:17 |
| chem|st | there is no need for a systemwide daemon running | 17:18 |
| alterego | Why does dbus go through the roof when I use it in Qt?! | 17:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>titan: "Duh, why not include a few nice codecs to PA by default?!" | 17:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | hopefully they'll get it right in MeeGo | 17:18 |
| chem|st | the only thing why pulse is needed that early is the damn hands movie | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | they won't | 17:19 |
| Khertan | <chem|st> the bloating pulseaudio setup of nokia is pissing me off anyway <<< the ubuntu one is worse :) | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: yep | 17:19 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: why won't they? | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | meego is adopting PA | 17:19 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: well there is nothing wrong with PA itself | 17:20 |
| chem|st | Khertan: I knew there are a lot of reasons why I do not use buntu distros - it adds to it | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | orly? | 17:20 |
| Venemo_N900 | lots of desktop distros use it too | 17:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yeah, screwit damn #@@!?%&/ | 17:20 |
| chem|st | Venemo_N900: there is a lot wrong with pulse if you set it --system | 17:21 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, :) yep but i've still problem with my pulseaudio conf ... without using ubuntu :) but hem ... i can only blame myself | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | because of some ****** shoving that PA shit down everybodies throat | 17:21 |
| corecode | anybody hacked the mail client to store sent mail on imap? | 17:22 |
| chem|st | Khertan: Venemo_N900: and on my desktop I am fighting aswell but with my own setup from hell | 17:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | heh | 17:22 |
| chem|st | MohammadAG: make pulse die after startup movie might help | 17:22 |
| Khertan | chem|st, i ve try to setup myself after just installing debian core | 17:22 |
| Venemo_N900 | why not simply mount the necessary stuff earlier? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: MohammadAG: you should listen carefully to what nicolai said | 17:23 |
| chem|st | Khertan: welcome to the jungle | 17:23 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you mean the "why does it need" part? | 17:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | more the >><nicolai> yes, but after reflashing with pr 1.3. ldd shows it isnt tied to it<< part | 17:24 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, tell us how you REALLY feel. | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: huh? | 17:25 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: it is called at that point anyway if MohammadAG isn't on his other phone... | 17:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: sorry, you lost me | 17:25 |
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| corecode | what do you suggest, maemo sdk+, or just plain maemo 5 sdk from nokia? | 17:26 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: thought he got two phones one at PR1.2 and another 1.3 | 17:26 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: nvm | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG? not afaik | 17:27 |
| Khertan | chem|st, maybe i should try an working out of the box distribution ... | 17:27 |
| Khertan | chem|st, but based on debian :) | 17:27 |
| MohammadAG | nope, not me | 17:27 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, linux mint seems a good candidate | 17:27 |
| chem|st | Khertan: what do you mean, own distro or use a OOTB one? | 17:27 |
| chem|st | Khertan: depends on the device you are using | 17:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd suggest a mass poll on ldd PA, vs stock or power kernel | 17:28 |
| chem|st | Khertan: and expectations you got | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suspect a flaw in power kernel config | 17:28 |
| Khertan | chem|st, device will be a core i5 4gb ram sys on ssd , something fast, pyqt, pidgin, quot libet, firefox and libnotification :) | 17:29 |
| Khertan | and virtualbox :) | 17:29 |
| Khertan | not really complicated ... something that all distrib can provide :) | 17:29 |
| chem|st | Khertan: I was one of the earliest to adopt debian on a sammy nc10 (2 weeks after release in europe) fully supported, 3 month later linux mint worked OOTB... | 17:30 |
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| chem|st | Khertan: so a desktop plugnpray machine | 17:31 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, hum ... i used debian squeeze with xfce + tint2 on my samsung n130 :) | 17:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | corecode: what is maemo sdk+ ? | 17:32 |
| Khertan | chem|st, plugandpray ? why ? | 17:32 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, i ve verified that all mainboard chipset are supported by the current squeeze version of debian :)= | 17:32 |
| Khertan | (audio, network, usb ...) | 17:32 |
| chem|st | Khertan: squeeze + ion3, pray as I got a 50:50 chance of melting something when I hotplug pciE cards ;) | 17:33 |
| chem|st | Khertan: sure... mint is debian derived | 17:33 |
| Khertan | did you hotplug pciE cards everyday ? | 17:34 |
| chem|st | Khertan: no just for several hours several times | 17:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: what was it you wanted me to tell you? | 17:35 |
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| chem|st | compared cube and physics performance of nvidia cards and raidcontrollers | 17:35 |
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| chem|st | fried one... | 17:36 |
| Khertan | chem|st, ;) ... i think i didn't plug or unplug something on my pc since april 2010 | 17:36 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:36 |
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| chem|st | Khertan: just some hours ago I had my n900 fully dissected | 17:37 |
| Khertan | but the main question is why using mint instead of debian ... as it s just a derivated ... i didn't see the added value | 17:37 |
| chem|st | uh mint is just no hassle! I prefer pure debian | 17:38 |
| chem|st | mint is like "put it on a stick and boot, copy it on disk and reboot without stick!" | 17:38 |
| chem|st | system ready... | 17:39 |
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| Venemo_N900 | the question is, why did the authors of mint start their own distro instead of contributing to Debian? | 17:40 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, sorry, I forgot the sarcasm tags. *g* | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | though those wouldn't help me to understand what you were referring to | 17:41 |
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| Khertan | Venemo_N900, yep ... also | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NFC what you meant to say | 17:42 |
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| chem|st | Venemo_N900: most start because of the restrictive upstream management, the goal fro debian is to create a ultra-rock-solid-server distribution and so is the management | 17:43 |
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| yacc | Wonder, is there any documentation on the boot process of the n900? | 17:43 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, was addressing your anger about Nokia this morning. ;) | 17:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: ok so then there is ubuntu | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | me? angry about Nokia? | 17:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: they could've contributed to that too | 17:44 |
| RST38h | GAN900: Have you been promising Doc pink unicorns, online? =) | 17:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | not more than usual | 17:44 |
| chem|st | Venemo_N900: religion? | 17:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: [citation needed] | 17:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: maybe | 17:45 |
| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: but I still think it is ridiculous | 17:45 |
| chem|st | 170+ distributions is ridiculous! | 17:45 |
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| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: indeed | 17:46 |
| chem|st | I understand the common 15-20 but the rest... waste of space | 17:47 |
| alterego | Looks like I've crashed Xorg .. | 17:47 |
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| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: although I do not agree with it, I can understand why people do it | 17:47 |
| chem|st | 2nd | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, nuke *buntu and we are rid of some of the more annoying ones ;-P | 17:47 |
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| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: for example | 17:48 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, and what did you think of using ssd ? does there is a real performance improve or not by using it for / but not /home and swap ? | 17:48 |
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| chem|st | Khertan: mainly useless, faster boot, all relevant stuff is in RAM anyway so performance you get for starting stuff but not for running stuff | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: ++ | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG_ | hmm, how do I get a USB headset working on maemo? | 17:50 |
| Khertan | (small ssd 32Go but Read: Up to 280 MB/s and write 170Mbs) | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: with the right drivers? | 17:50 |
| MohammadAG_ | other than those? | 17:50 |
| chem|st | Khertan: so what? I would like to have that for my 2TB data partition | 17:51 |
| Khertan | chem|st, hum ... as it s arround 100Euros ... maybe i should go for 8Gb of ram instead of 4Gb for same price | 17:51 |
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| chem|st | I dont care about slow startup of a program as I leave everything open, so fast swap with about 4GB is just enough | 17:52 |
| chem|st | Khertan: RAM I buy as much as the MB supports... | 17:52 |
| chem|st | Khertan: having a DVD cached in RAM while watching/burning/resampling etc. is a key feat. | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | chem|st: ++ | 17:55 |
| chem|st | Khertan: swap is only 4GB as it only swaps if realy needed, hibernate goes to swapfile somewhere | 17:55 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: you agree alot today ;) | 17:55 |
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| chem|st | Khertan: / is on my slowest disk /data is on my most energy efficient and /home on my fastest... | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I probably should throttle posting such noise | 17:56 |
| chem|st | DocScrutinizer: nope it is good the see that people agree on things I am normaly fighting for | 17:57 |
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| yacc | Ah, anyone got an idea how the boot process inside maemo5 works? Googling turns up many pages related to installing MeeGo, Android, but not much related to things that happen after the kernel takes over. | 17:58 |
| chem|st | Khertan: I loose about 30MB/s just because of encryption... | 17:58 |
| chem|st | have a nice weekend ppl | 17:58 |
| Venemo_N900 | chem|st: you too :) | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: a bit. ask specific questions | 17:59 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: I'm still on my pulseaudio does not start problem. | 17:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | read backscroll, seems MohammadAG_ has found a cause | 18:00 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: does 'start pulseaudio' as root solve it? it does for me most of the time | 18:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: power kernel? | 18:01 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: The interesting part is that I cannot start pulseaudio (stopping because it's respawning to fast) after booting the device, but later (no idea how much later, I admit) I can start it. | 18:01 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: And no, I have the stock kernel, no power kernel for me. | 18:01 |
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| Khertan | chem|st, thanks, you too | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | try starting PA directly, with the exact line that's used normaly as a parameter to dsme-tool im /etc/events.d | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if you can get any meaningful output or syslog | 18:03 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: nope, stock kernel here | 18:05 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: still PA doesn't start in 50% of time | 18:06 |
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| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: in most cases, I can start it with 'start pulseaudio', and it the crap upstart says "respawning too fast", then a reboot usually fixes it | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm, for PA upstart does "respawn" no dsme-tool involved o.O | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: respawning too fast isn't any useful an errormsg | 18:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it just indicates PA has quit and was restarted by upstart several times | 18:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: afaik it is a bug in Maemo's Upstart that it says this when it's in a bad mood | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | it doesn't tell WHY PA quits | 18:08 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: indeed | 18:09 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: That's from now when pa does start: http://pastebin.com/bSL0ACCd | 18:09 |
| yacc | Venemo_N900, actually the respawning too fast happens for me after a reboot and goes away after some time. | 18:10 |
| Venemo_N900 | what I'm saying is that Upstart randomly gives this message for other stuff too | 18:10 |
| Venemo_N900 | we would need to find out why PA doesn't start in the first place | 18:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | E: voice-sidetone.c: Cannot open /sys/devices/platform/omap-mcbsp.2/st_enable -- looks odd | 18:11 |
| alterego | upstart does that because it's shit. | 18:11 |
| alterego | I've had so much hassle trying to get daemons running in upstart with that lame message. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: ??? | 18:12 |
| alterego | There was actually a bug in the version of upstart used in maemo that caused that issue, | 18:12 |
| alterego | Don't know if it was fixed. | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ticket#? | 18:12 |
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| alterego | It's a known upstream problem anyway. | 18:12 |
| alterego | No idea. | 18:13 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: ^ | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | doesn't sound convincing to me | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | see /etc/event.d/pulseaudio, last line: >>respawn | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | So I tend to think upstart restarts PA as PA is segfaulting or otherwise quiting | 18:15 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc, copy the lib in /opt to /usr/lib | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | if this happens too often, upstart is supposed to throw error "respawning too fast" -- init does same for respawning processes in inittab | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | and i wasn't the one who found the solution | 18:16 |
| alterego | I could really do with another N900 :/ | 18:16 |
| MohammadAG_ | cp /opt/maemo/usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 yacc | 18:17 |
| yacc | That's from when start pulseaudio complains about respawning: http://pastebin.com/KTCsW5EE | 18:17 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc do that and reboot, pa will work just fine | 18:17 |
| yacc | MohammadAG: how so? | 18:17 |
| yacc | Ah. | 18:18 |
| yacc | opt is not yet mounted when pa tries to start first time? | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | yeah | 18:18 |
| yacc | usr/lib is a symlink to opt | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | (sometimes it is, that's why it wokrs 1% of the time) | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | works* | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG_ | yep | 18:18 |
| Venemo_N900 | well Upstart does that awful message for 'start sticky-notes' too sometimes... so... alterego is right, this is an upstart bug | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | err, not /usr/lib | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | /usr/lib/libFLAC.so.8.2.0 | 18:19 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG: I know, I meant /usr/lib/libFLAC.... | 18:19 |
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| MohammadAG_ | yeah, that's a symlink, copy the file in /opt to overwrite it | 18:19 |
| MohammadAG_ | ~seen mikkov | 18:20 |
| infobot | mikkov <~mikkov@xdsl-83-150-82-126.nebulazone.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 242d 18h 17m 26s ago, saying: 'http://ecoach.garage.maemo.org/'. | 18:20 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: why just libflac? aren't there other libs on which it depends? | 18:20 |
| MohammadAG | apparently, only that one is optified | 18:20 |
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| Venemo_N900 | oh. | 18:21 |
| yacc | MohammadAG: Does not fix it for me. I restarted (actually did echo b >/proc/sysrq*) and it still cannot play ringtones in the settings app. | 18:21 |
| yacc | OTOH, pulseaudio is running, which is clearly an improvement. | 18:22 |
| yacc | Where does upstart store the output of the executed commands? | 18:22 |
| alterego | yacc: doesn't unless you tell it to | 18:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_N900: never blame a component to be buggy unless you have sound proof for what exactly is the bug | 18:22 |
| yacc | alterego, how do I tell it? | 18:22 |
| alterego | yacc learn upstart config and read the config file :) | 18:23 |
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| alterego | By default I don't think apps are created attached to a tty | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: sounds more like it | 18:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: well I didn't research into it much | 18:24 |
| MohammadAG_ | alterego, is there a way to send a DBus signal when h-e-n enumerates something? | 18:24 |
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| MohammadAG_ | well, when a Qt app does something in general | 18:24 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: there is QtDbus | 18:24 |
| alterego | MohammadAG_: yeah, QtDbus :P | 18:24 |
| MohammadAG_ | by sending a signal I mean sending my own signal for other apps to use it | 18:24 |
| alterego | Yes | 18:24 |
| alterego | Easy, as pie :P | 18:25 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: it is totally possible with QtDbus | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG_ | would be nice to have an app that auto detects a mouse and activates the patched mouse driver + mouse pointer | 18:25 |
| alterego | MohammadAG_: http://doc.trolltech.com/qq/qq20-dbus.html | 18:25 |
| MohammadAG_ | ty | 18:25 |
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| alterego | "Sending and Receiving" | 18:25 |
| alterego | dbus is quite nice in Qt. | 18:26 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qtdbus.html | 18:26 |
| yacc | Any way to get ls to show not only the inode number but also the st_dev? | 18:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, seems we excluded powerkernel from the usual suspects. So I guess everybody who has this PA problem has the pkg advanced-audio-codecs (or similar) installed. I could imagine there's a bug in this pkg with linking some PA module that gets replaced to a lib that's optified | 18:26 |
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| MohammadAG_ | removing one line in libflac8.postinst to not optify it would do wonders | 18:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | which pkg is libflac8 ? | 18:27 |
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| MohammadAG_ | libflac8 :) | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | bah | 18:28 |
| MohammadAG_ | decoders-support just depends on it | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | k | 18:28 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: I have the "extra decoders support" installed, yes | 18:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | check libflac8 of PR1.2 | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the pkg | 18:29 |
| alterego | I've never had this issue .. | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, it's an extras package, can be fixed | 18:29 |
| alterego | But I don't think I installed extra codec support this time round. | 18:29 |
| MohammadAG_ | would enumeration be better as a system bus signal or a session bus one? | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | check the module/lib that ld-depends on libflac8, in version of PR1.2 | 18:29 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: be happy then :) | 18:29 |
| * MohammadAG_ votes system :) | 18:29 | |
| alterego | Q: My app has the option of screen keep-alive, should I, when my app is switched to background, inhibit that function if it's enabled? | 18:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: prior to fixing we need to spot the bug | 18:30 |
| alterego | So, my app will only keep alive the screen, if it's in the foreground and the option is enabled. | 18:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | you found a botch workaround, but haven't yet dissected where the bug came in | 18:30 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: I found you this: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/examples-dbus.html | 18:30 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: probably because PA doesn't have mountfs as one of its' dependants. | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | alterego, yes, that would be nice :) | 18:31 |
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| Venemo_N900 | alterego: yes, you should | 18:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2 possible causes: a) libflac8.postinst is buggy in PR1.3, b) the binary that links in this libflac8 is buggy | 18:31 |
| alterego | Yeah, done it, thought it'd probably be the sane choice ;) | 18:31 |
| MohammadAG_ | Venemo_N900, thanks :D | 18:31 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: or if you're not sure, place an additional option in your app whether to do so | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: that's also quite possible | 18:32 |
| * MohammadAG_ likes the chat example, would be nice to have a cross platform bluetooth messenger, classes are sometimes boring | 18:32 | |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: if it's caused by mount happening too late, then that is the better solution I think. | 18:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | :) | 18:32 |
| ShadowJK | alterego, yes that sounds sensible | 18:32 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: why not just irc? | 18:32 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Don't think so, because I just listed the st_dev and it's the same for all libraries referenced from /usr/lib/pulse-0.9.15/modules/*.so :( | 18:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: could be a sleeping bug since ages, that came up on PR1.3 with some timing changes / race | 18:33 |
| alterego | Yeah, | 18:33 |
| alterego | Do you want me to look at the upstart configs then? ;) | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: would you verify it fixes things, and then open a ticket with a proper patch attached? | 18:34 |
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| alterego | Well, I don't suffer the issue. | 18:34 |
| MohammadAG_ | Venemo_N900, cause my classmates don't use IRC :) | 18:34 |
| Venemo_N900 | alterego: try the extra decoders support and see if you suffer it then | 18:34 |
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| alterego | m'kay. | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, so explain to moh and yacc and Venemo_N900 how to fix it proper, and they will happily verify | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: ^^ | 18:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: I meant #maemo :P | 18:35 |
| alterego | I don't really want to suffer it thanks ;) | 18:35 |
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| alterego | I'll explain the fix and make a patch. | 18:35 |
| alterego | If it seems to solve the issue then you can submit it. | 18:35 |
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| MohammadAG_ | Venemo_N900, heh, I'm always on | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: :-D | 18:35 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: huh, really? | 18:36 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: how does your battery handle it? | 18:36 |
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| * peb is gone. Gone since Fri Nov 26 15:14:00 2010 | 18:36 | |
| MohammadAG_ | Venemo_N900, well, I cracked the school's WEP so I don't need to worry about 3G | 18:36 |
| yacc | lol, funny behaviour too: despite pulseaudio running, when the alarmclock wants to play an alarm all I get is a beep (could be also the first sub-second part of the ring tone, not sure). | 18:36 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: lol :D | 18:37 |
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| MohammadAG_ | yacc, you probably used /etc/event.d/pulseaudio to start pulseaudio right? | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG_ | I did that last week, make a call, it'll always go through the loudspeakers | 18:37 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG_, well, after the libFLAC fix it does start on boot, so yeah, I guess so. | 18:37 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: I haven't seen that bug yet, although I use the default alarm ringtone | 18:37 |
| MohammadAG_ | reboot fixed it | 18:38 |
| MohammadAG_ | ah, nvm then | 18:38 |
| * MohammadAG_ thinks he has seen most bugs around maemo :P | 18:38 | |
| alterego | Okay, it appears the fix is to add: start on stopped rcS-late to /etc/event.d/pulseaudio | 18:38 |
| yacc | MohammadAG_: and despite that pa is running, the media player still says "cannot play, audio device is used by a different program" | 18:38 |
| Venemo_N900 | hmm | 18:39 |
| yacc | alterego, add or replace the existing start on line? | 18:39 |
| MohammadAG_ | add it | 18:39 |
| alterego | add it | 18:39 |
| alterego | It needs to start after dbus too. | 18:39 |
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| yacc | Ok, rebooting. | 18:40 |
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| MohammadAG_ | rebooting | 18:41 |
| alterego | This may, however, stop the nokia tune from playing .. | 18:41 |
| yacc | alterego, that's a bonus :) | 18:41 |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:41 |
| MohammadAG_ | (file moved back to /opt, symlinked again) | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG_ | I hope I haven't typod | 18:42 |
| yacc | alterego, nothing as irritating to be unable to restart the phone without letting the whole room know. | 18:42 |
| MohammadAG_ | btw, reboot shuts down my device for some reason | 18:42 |
| Jay_BEE | good (UGT) morning | 18:42 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: well you can always remove the hands movie entirely | 18:42 |
| alterego | yacc: well, that's an easy fix: echo -n > /usr/share/whereever/that/avi/is.avi | 18:42 |
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| MohammadAG_ | alterego, didn't work :) | 18:42 |
| alterego | Interesting. | 18:42 |
| alterego | So you still have the problem? | 18:43 |
| Venemo_N900 | there is an option in powatool that turns that movie of | 18:43 |
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| alterego | I installed a custom one. | 18:43 |
| yacc | alterego, lol I think you can leave out the echo -n, the redirection on an empty command makes also an empty file. | 18:43 |
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| alterego | Oh, cool :P | 18:43 |
| alterego | Learn something new every day ;) | 18:44 |
| yacc | alterego, media player still tells me that something else is using the "sound device". | 18:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: hm, interesting | 18:44 |
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| MohammadAG_ | instead of clearing the avi file, clear the config | 18:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: agreed | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc, heh, had that one | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | only fix was to reflash :) | 18:44 |
| Venemo_N900 | hm. is that avi optified at least? | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | I think so | 18:44 |
| MohammadAG_ | lcuk, should know | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG_ | btw, why does mce sorta depend on pulseaudio for haptic feedback? | 18:45 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG_: that's not exactly a fix, that's a capitulation ;) | 18:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: event.d/rcS-late: | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | script | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | #mount /home; fix ext3 and retry mounting if 1st attempt fails | 18:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | mount_home () | 18:46 |
| alterego | bleurgh | 18:46 |
| alterego | m'kay | 18:46 |
| alterego | remote the -late | 18:47 |
| * MohammadAG_ has yet to figure out how to scroll to the bottom of a QTextBrowser/QTextEdit | 18:47 | |
| alterego | This might be the case | 18:47 |
| alterego | try: start on stopped rcS | 18:47 |
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| Venemo_N900 | MohammadAG_: #qt is a nice place | 18:47 |
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| alterego | #qt is full of trolls | 18:48 |
| * MohammadAG_ agrees ^ | 18:48 | |
| Venemo_N900 | yeah, literally :D | 18:48 |
| Venemo_N900 | lol | 18:48 |
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| yacc | Just tried it out, my ringtone is the same as the ringtone in the alarm clock, 4 very short weak beeps. | 18:48 |
| alterego | yacc: do you want to try with the modification I just said? | 18:49 |
| yacc | alterego, which one? | 18:49 |
| yacc | alterego, start on rc late, that one is already in there and rebooted afterwards. | 18:49 |
| yacc | alterego, the full way with pin request and all. | 18:50 |
| alterego | start on stopped rcS | 18:50 |
| alterego | (without -late) | 18:50 |
| yacc | start on stopped rcS | 18:50 |
| alterego | Yes | 18:50 |
| yacc | Hope that's ok, reboot coming. | 18:50 |
| alterego | :) | 18:50 |
| alterego | It's okay for sshd :P | 18:51 |
| alterego | Strange how rcS-late doesn't depend on rcS :) | 18:51 |
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| yacc | Btw, the sounds for "battery is charging" and "connected IM" are playing fine. | 18:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | what does rcS stand for? | 18:52 |
| Venemo_N900 | yacc: can the cause be file system corruption? | 18:53 |
| yacc | rc file for single user mode, that is always executed no matter what init level you want to go to? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: WUT? | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, seems all quite... messed up | 18:54 |
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| yacc | alterego, ok, did not help. | 18:54 |
| alterego | pfft | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG_ | I'm more interested in why /etc/event.replace.d/ isn't cleaned up | 18:54 |
| alterego | Oh well, I give up, got things to do :P | 18:54 |
| yacc | media player still claims the device is busy. | 18:54 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc, I suggested reflashing, I had the same problem with the camera | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: who claimed it should? | 18:54 |
| alterego | I might look into it later if I have the time and I fancy screwing my media playback capabilities :P | 18:54 |
| alterego | Wait, is yacc's problem not the one we're trying to fix: | 18:55 |
| alterego | ? | 18:55 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, I have duplicate scripts in /etc/event.d and /etc/event.replace.d | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: please enlighten me what exactly this event.replace.d is for | 18:55 |
| yacc | I wonder why some apps (the desktop for example) can play sounds while others cannot? | 18:55 |
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| Venemo_N900 | may be a permission issue? | 18:56 |
| korhojoa | hmm, anyone tried using uprecords on their n900? | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, postinst of mce copies script from it | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | to /etc/event.d | 18:56 |
| korhojoa | i got it installed on mine using the debian armel debs, but it doesn't keep the records updated | 18:56 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc, policy file issue? | 18:56 |
| korhojoa | each reboot it resets them | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: hmm, so why should it be cleaned? | 18:56 |
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| ereslibre | hey, where can i find maemo bluetooth related code ? | 18:57 |
| yacc | MohammadAG: I've got two processes accessing /dev/snd, one is pa, and the other one is /usr/sbin/alsaped -p 4 -f /usr/share/policy/etc/curre | 18:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG_: good point | 18:58 |
| yacc | MohammadAG_, Which policy files? | 18:58 |
| yacc | MohammadAG_: which package do I need to reinstall? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | Nokia-N900:~# cat /usr/share/policy/etc/current/pulse/xpolicy.conf | pastebinit | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | http://pastebin.com/jZZaL3cE | 18:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | anybody of you installed the skip-on-headset-pushbutton app, or the pause-on-unplug-hs ? | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | you might want to remove the last two section if you don't have them | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, headphoned, yes, I have it | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | might mess up policy file | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG_ | and qwerty12's headset-control app, had it for quite some time, then my headset broke | 18:59 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Now that you ask, I've got the pause-on-unplug app installed. | 18:59 |
| Venemo_N900 | DocScrutinizer: pause on unplug is here, works as always for me | 18:59 |
| MohammadAG_ | yacc it doesn't cause issues | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | that doesn't mean it leaves the file intact though | 19:00 |
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| MohammadAG_ | it edits it, but it doesn't ruin it :) | 19:00 |
| Venemo_N900 | anyway guys, I have to leave now | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | it might introduce whatever issue, with 1.3 | 19:00 |
| Venemo_N900 | good evening to all of you and have a nice weekend :) | 19:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | even a perfect edit that was ok for 1.2 may mess up 1.3 PA | 19:01 |
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| MohammadAG_ | DocScrutinizer, true, but I have it installed and it hasn't caused me issues | 19:02 |
| MohammadAG_ | also, thp hasn't left the community, if it does cause issues he would've updated it :) | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I strongly suggest to check both apps. Deinstall, make sure the files were restored to original, check if error still occurs | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | the late mount story sounds good, but when mediaplayer is doing shakehands from optified medifile, then evidently /home has to be mounted at that point in time | 19:04 |
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| yacc | MohammadAG_: That's the diff to mine: http://pastebin.com/wRGi6U1J | 19:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | looks fishy | 19:06 |
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| alterego | Lovely segfaulys. | 19:06 |
| alterego | ~segfaults. | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | don't call infobot names | 19:06 |
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| alterego | Heh | 19:07 |
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| yacc | sigh | 19:08 |
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| yacc | Do we have some cmdline tools that I could try for playing a mp3 through pa? | 19:09 |
| * MohammadAG_ looks at the two assignments he has to write and hand in tomorrow | 19:10 | |
| * MohammadAG_ goes back to Qt Creator | 19:10 | |
| alterego | Yaaay, fixed me segfauly :) | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | play-sound | 19:10 |
| alterego | Ah, need to clean up that a bit ^.^ | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: ?? | 19:11 |
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| yacc | Nokia-N900-51-1:~# play-sound /home/user/MyDocs/Musik/Vangelis/The\ Hits\ of\ Vangelis/01\ -\ Pulstar.mp3 | 19:13 |
| yacc | ca_context_play_full (vol -0.000000): File or data corrupt | 19:13 |
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| yacc | Google does not say anything about that error :( | 19:14 |
| yacc | away for a moment | 19:15 |
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| nicolai | yacc: try a .wav file, play-sound /usr/share/sounds/ui-battery_low.wav | 19:17 |
| BCMM | it could be worse. i hate it when the only google results for an error are the source code of the program that just broke | 19:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense) | 19:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: seems you're back to gst-* to playback mp3 | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BCMM: I'd love that | 19:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | usually you find 37k-hits on lusers whining, and no proper link at all to the source | 19:30 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: Isn't that funny, play-sound can play the wav file fine, ... | 19:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: play-sound is using another policy. You can tell by the always-100% volume it uses | 19:40 |
| yacc | DocScrutinizer: By policy you mean the ini-file style sections in the xpolicy file? | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | the strange thing called policy enforcer in PA, that makes the volume separate for ringtones and for music playback and for calls | 19:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | controlled by that file, among others. NFC how it works in detail, or where to find docs | 19:42 |
| yacc | Do I need to restart pa after changing the file? | 19:42 |
| kerio | "not fucking care"? | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~nfc | 19:42 |
| infobot | [nfc] No Fucking Clue | 19:42 |
| kerio | ooh | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc: dunno | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | maybe send SIGHUP to PA-foo | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | or restart | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | or nothing at all | 19:43 |
| yacc | Let's say, pulse audio is a really great piece of software. But just anyone (even people doing Linux over a decade, or perhaps especially these) hopes that their distribution gets it all right, and they don't need to touch it ;) | 19:43 |
| kerio | pulseaudio is horrid | 19:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep. And I heard hundered times one of the major reasons for inventing PA was the abysmal ALSA doc. I can't say I find PA doc any better - hell I can't find any doc at all | 19:44 |
| yacc | kerio, It can record stereo send it around half of the globe, and then replicate the stream to 3 Bluetooth headsets while recording it on harddisc with every headset having a seperate volume and so on. But setting it up makes hardcore Linux users go into panic mode. | 19:45 |
| kerio | jackd does that too :( | 19:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yacc: ACK | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw ALSA can do that as well... well maybe not around half the globe | 19:47 |
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| yacc | Ah, just discovered GST pipeline syntax, ... | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | the really odd thing: all my mixers on my desktop are still kinda attributed ALSA mixer, not a single PA mixer | 19:49 |
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| yacc | I love man pages that look like an annotated BNF | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | and those ALSA mixers all can handle softvol controls quite naturally. You don't even notice it's not a hw control | 19:49 |
| yacc | Yet another layer that can do everything. So Alsa can mix streams, PA too, and gstream pipelines seem to replicate a good part of that too, ... | 19:51 |
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| yacc | Who the fuck thought this eggheads about abstraction layers, sigh. | 19:52 |
| yacc | cacasink: cacasink: A colored ASCII art video sink | 19:54 |
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| yacc | I think that's clearly everything that I need, ... | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | caca YEP XP | 19:56 |
| alterego | yacc: alsa & PA can't decode/encode | 19:56 |
| alterego | And muxing streams in gstreamer is different. | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | libcacafap | 19:57 |
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| yacc | alterego, any tool where I need more than 15 minutes to figure out from the manpage how to play a mp3 file is suspect to me? | 19:57 |
| alterego | O_o | 19:58 |
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| alterego | Meh, | 19:58 |
| alterego | gst-launch isn't meant for playing an mp3 is it :P | 19:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it's NOT? | 20:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I guess that's exactly what mediaplayer does though | 20:01 |
| alterego | It's one thing that it happens to be able to do. | 20:02 |
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| yacc | Ok, so what conversion module does decode a mp3 file, .. | 20:04 |
| yacc | Because the examples in the man page use mad which is not there on my n900. | 20:06 |
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| pupnik | yacc: what language? | 20:07 |
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| yacc | pupnik, language? | 20:07 |
| alterego | He's using gst-launch | 20:07 |
| pupnik | oh | 20:07 |
| yacc | Trying to. | 20:08 |
| alterego | yacc: why not just use "play-sound" command? | 20:08 |
| yacc | alterego, because that one works and my media player does not. | 20:08 |
| alterego | Heh | 20:08 |
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| GAN900 | Ah, Fall cold. | 20:08 |
| yacc | Hence I want to see what the media player sees, because media-player error messages seem not always to be perfect clear. | 20:08 |
| GAN900 | Lovely. | 20:08 |
| alterego | You mean the maemo media player? | 20:08 |
| javispedro | hey GAN900 | 20:08 |
| javispedro | btw, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNKOImlCWHk (yes I filmed that) | 20:09 |
| alterego | yacc: the maemo media player uses mafw | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | Howdy-ho | 20:09 |
| alterego | yacc: mafw is a dbus service that uses gstreamer to play audio. | 20:09 |
| yacc | mafw? So where's the documentation? | 20:09 |
| alterego | If you want to see what media player sees, you need to use dbus-send and dbus-monitor :P | 20:09 |
| alterego | do a google search for mafw .. | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | javispedro, that thing was creepy. | 20:09 |
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| yacc | alterego, cool, so where's the docs? | 20:10 |
| pupnik | javispedro: minitube doesn't see your link, but browser does | 20:10 |
| yacc | Google associates mafw with "Morris Area Freewheelers Bicycle Club - Home" | 20:10 |
| alterego | yacc: google | 20:10 |
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| GAN900 | pupnik, unlisted video. | 20:10 |
| alterego | I'm sure you can be a bit more inventive than that. | 20:10 |
| alterego | It stands for "Media application framework" | 20:10 |
| javispedro | pupnik: try now, i've made it public (nothing interesting though :) ) | 20:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ( <alterego> yacc: why not just use "play-sound" command?) [2010-11-26 18:21:53] <DocScrutinizer> yacc: play-sound knows .wav - seems it doesn't know other formats though (makes sense) | 20:14 |
| pupnik | ty got it javispedro | 20:14 |
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| javispedro | play-sound as | 20:14 |
| javispedro | *also uses system notifications volume | 20:15 |
| javispedro | so it will be loud | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahaaaa, where from you got that special secret wisdom? | 20:15 |
| RST38h | heya javispedro | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | I always wondered which policy it uses | 20:15 |
| javispedro | hi RST38h | 20:15 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: pure experimentation | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | isn't doc excellent on the whole audio-shit? | 20:16 |
| javispedro | completely! | 20:16 |
| javispedro | there's no hidden x-maemo stuff whatsoever. | 20:16 |
| javispedro | everything documented. | 20:16 |
| korhojoa | :D | 20:17 |
| * javispedro sighs | 20:17 | |
| DocScrutinizer | uhum | 20:17 |
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| yacc | DocScrutinizer: The point is not to play a mp3 file, the point is to get to see what really happens when it spits out it's error message. Last time when pa was dead it said something like "cannot play files in this format", .... <= not exactly the real cause, ... | 20:17 |
| RST38h | open, yes | 20:17 |
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| troulouliou | hi could anybody give me the output of glxinfo on its maemo ? | 20:17 |
| BCMM | yacc: it complains about the format if anything at all goes wrong | 20:18 |
| BCMM | yacc: i've had that due to PA dieing and due to the DSP getting a broken state | 20:18 |
| BCMM | ^in | 20:18 |
| BCMM | troulouliou: sure, which package is it in? | 20:19 |
| yacc | BCMM, so it's perhaps understandable that I want to know more, because with such generic error messages it's hard to debug the situation. | 20:19 |
| troulouliou | BCMM: apt-get install mesa-utils | 20:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | yeah, maemo just works, why bother about error msgs or docs | 20:19 |
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| troulouliou | the app manager is too slow here so i drop it definitively :) | 20:20 |
| erstazi | just curious: N900 users, how do you know your N900 is charging? | 20:20 |
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| troulouliou | ther is a led blinkning in the corner | 20:20 |
| javispedro | troulouliou: there's no GLX in the Maemo xorg server. | 20:20 |
| erstazi | does the little red light on the bottom left blink? | 20:20 |
| erstazi | troulouliou: ^ | 20:20 |
| BCMM | erstazi: a light comes on (by default), and you can see it in the status area too | 20:20 |
| BCMM | erstazi: that light isn't always red | 20:20 |
| BCMM | erstazi: by default, it's orange for charging | 20:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | amber | 20:21 |
| erstazi | BCMM: right but that is if the phone is on (: but if the phone is off, does the normally white light blink red when it is off? | 20:21 |
| yacc | If I trust dbus-monitor nothing beyond a stop message is transmitted, ... | 20:21 |
| troulouliou | javispedro: what is the equivalent | 20:21 |
| BCMM | erstazi: still orange, by defualt | 20:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no | 20:21 |
| * erstazi checks the user manual | 20:21 | |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no red ever | 20:21 |
| BCMM | orange blinking light, even if hte phone is "off" | 20:21 |
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| BCMM | red is for errors, and i think for the front cam being on | 20:21 |
| BCMM | (but i've messed with my settings and might've forgotten the defaults) | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | amber :-P | 20:22 |
| troulouliou | javispedro: cause opengles 1.0 suport it i think | 20:22 |
| javispedro | troulouliou: it's a long story, but the equivalent is EGL | 20:22 |
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| javispedro | troulouliou: anything specific you want to know? | 20:23 |
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| troulouliou | javispedro: yeah i m porting an application that compil against GLES 1.0 | 20:23 |
| BCMM | just installing a pastebin script | 20:23 |
| troulouliou | and its using GLX for window rendering | 20:23 |
| BCMM | incidentally, glxgears doesn't work right :( | 20:24 |
| troulouliou | javispedro: so i hoped that at least the mesa-glx was working fine | 20:24 |
| javispedro | troulouliou: are you sure it's GLES (not GL)? It'll be the first time I have ever seen such a combination (possible though) | 20:24 |
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| javispedro | BCMM: no wonder, as I guess glxgears is GL1.0 (not GLES1) | 20:24 |
| BCMM_ | http://pastebin.com/VSRHDZJS | 20:24 |
| BCMM | troulouliou: & | 20:25 |
| BCMM | ^, rather | 20:25 |
| javispedro | handle with care, that is very probably sw rendering | 20:25 |
| BCMM | "OpenGL renderer string: Mesa X11" - yep | 20:26 |
| BCMM | why's that? | 20:26 |
| javispedro | I am trying to explain, above :) | 20:26 |
| javispedro | there's no GLX at all in the N900. | 20:26 |
| BCMM | GLXgears was weird, incidentally: just a fullscreen transparent window... | 20:26 |
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| troulouliou | javispedro: think it is , it is based on ogre | 20:26 |
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| javispedro | ogre itself was ported to the n900 | 20:27 |
| BCMM | so OpenGL ES isn't implemented through mesa? | 20:27 |
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| troulouliou | BCMM: both 1.0 and 2.0 have their own driver | 20:29 |
| javispedro | troulouliou: I'm quite sure the GLES port of Ogre uses EGL, not GLX... | 20:29 |
| javispedro | see http://ogre.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ogre/trunk/RenderSystems/GLES/src/ | 20:29 |
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| BCMM | is ES not entirely a subset of opengl proper then? | 20:29 |
| javispedro | it's a long story BCMM, GLX was never part of OpenGL | 20:29 |
| javispedro | proper. | 20:29 |
| troulouliou | BCMM: http://wiki.maemo.org/OpenGL-ES | 20:30 |
| BCMM | javispedro: opengl itself has never cared about windowing systems on any platform, right? | 20:30 |
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| javispedro | OpenGL is not a "complete" API in the sense that you cannot use it at all unless you have some extra platform depended API | 20:30 |
| javispedro | BCMM: exactly | 20:30 |
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| BCMM | javispedro: and GLX doesn't do opengl-es? | 20:31 |
| javispedro | it can | 20:31 |
| javispedro | but not on the N900. | 20:31 |
| BCMM | ah... why not? | 20:31 |
| javispedro | probably two reasons | 20:32 |
| javispedro | EGL is suggested for GLES, and no other platform used X11 with GLES | 20:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, raster would know some details. If you would"mt mind he's using 'u' instead of 'you' | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | alas somebody thought that's a reason to kick | 20:34 |
| javispedro | heh | 20:34 |
| yacc | Ok, I guess pnatd is not open source, but I wonder if there is any documentation on it at all? | 20:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | none I know of | 20:35 |
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| javispedro | either way, noone should know the obscure glx stuff | 20:35 |
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| troulouliou | javispedro: iphone is using egl or glx or anything else ? | 20:38 |
| javispedro | troulouliou: a propietary api | 20:39 |
| javispedro | it is usually called eagl | 20:39 |
| troulouliou | javispedro : ok got it now | 20:40 |
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| javispedro | similar to egl btw, I'd call it "EGL on ObjC" | 20:40 |
| javispedro | but not exactly the same | 20:40 |
| troulouliou | and egl is only compatible gles1.0 ? | 20:42 |
| erstazi | if I take the battery out, it flashes yellow/anber but if I put the battery back in, it flashes red. | 20:42 |
| troulouliou | or there is one for gles1.0 et another one for gles2.0 | 20:42 |
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| ds3 | a | 20:42 |
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| javispedro | troulouliou: you can potentially use EGL with any API | 20:43 |
| javispedro | gles, gl, vg... | 20:44 |
| javispedro | flashing red? heh. | 20:45 |
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| javispedro | btw, capacitive stylus suck. | 20:49 |
| javispedro | the required pressure is.... wow. | 20:49 |
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| RST38h | Won't any metal object work though? | 20:49 |
| MohammadAG | sed 's/stylus/*/' :P | 20:49 |
| javispedro | RST38h: you're not going to press any metal object so hard against the screen | 20:50 |
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| javispedro | I don't know why but it requires extreme pressure to be able to detect anything at all | 20:50 |
| javispedro | (save for one's finger) | 20:50 |
| javispedro | so much for capacitive. | 20:52 |
| javispedro | if this is the way the N9 is going to work... | 20:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | erstazi: battery dead, or phone hw dead | 20:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: toldya capacitive sucks | 20:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | try wiener - works great and you can eat it | 20:55 |
| RST38h | not after it touches that germ-infested touchscreen! | 20:55 |
| javispedro | but I hoped to use a stylus for precision stuff / writing | 20:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'll come up with a mustard dispenser app for N9 | 20:55 |
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| javispedro | so the fact that it is hardly sensitive to a conductive stylus is shit. | 20:56 |
| * RST38h wonders if terminals of charged capacitors will do the job | 20:56 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: capacitive needs a certain conduvtive *area* in close contact to screen | 20:56 |
| myuu_ | hey anyone here having trouble wth Netstory? | 20:56 |
| pupnik | javispedro: the screen denter | 20:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: no way for precision stuff on c-ts | 20:57 |
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| RST38h | MohammadAG is trolling lemming. | 20:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | erstazi: try reflashing. If that doesn't help, try to get new battery. If that doesn't help, get a new device | 20:58 |
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| RST38h | trolling lemmings that is, sorry Mohammad | 20:58 |
| javispedro | I've seen too kinds of capacitive stylus, http://www.songtak.com.tw/downloadfiles/iphone%20stylus%20with%20gloves2.jpg (useless for writing), and http://www.redmondpie.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/CapacitiveStylus.jpg (with a "peephole", the one that requires insane pressure to work) | 20:58 |
| RST38h | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=66226 <== Not even sure if he is serious :) | 20:58 |
| javispedro | just send them a dcma c&d | 20:59 |
| javispedro | *dmca | 20:59 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, I am, and it works :D | 20:59 |
| troulouliou | it is possivle to replace the boot-splash hand by console output ? | 21:00 |
| myuu_ | erstazi have you ever tried to jumpstart your batt.? | 21:00 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Too bad none of these folks can appreciate the beauty of this method =) | 21:00 |
| MohammadAG | Indeed :) | 21:00 |
| nox- | moin | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 21:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | moin nox- | 21:01 |
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| nox- | moin DocScrutinizer | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | troulouliou: yes, with a special fb-enabled kernel, that is notorious to reboot 5 times until it comes up | 21:02 |
| troulouliou | ok thanks :) | 21:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | troulouliou: ask MohammadAG | 21:02 |
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| erstazi | DocScrutinizer: working on all of those. | 21:03 |
| troulouliou | i just got mine , is there anythong special to do so that when i turn it it activate the phoine ? | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG | /usr/share/hildon-welcome.d/ I think | 21:03 |
| erstazi | myuu_: working on that, thanks | 21:03 |
| MohammadAG | and /etc/hildon-welcome/ | 21:03 |
| erstazi | DocScrutinizer: thanks | 21:03 |
| troulouliou | i have a friend that have that option | 21:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's no need to jumpstart battery. It's actually strongly deprecated and discourraged | 21:04 |
| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Welcome_screen | 21:05 |
| jacekowski | you know what | 21:05 |
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| jacekowski | it's friday | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | in fact a dead battery that causes red flashing might be rather dangerous to "jumpstart" | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: actually | 21:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | jacekowski: noticed same thing/mood/symptoms some 6h ago :-P | 21:06 |
| * MohammadAG starts saving for the Fender Rock Band 3 guitar | 21:06 | |
| MohammadAG | $280 :( | 21:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG - the one man band | 21:06 |
| * javispedro tries to install some 1998 game in IdeaPad, let's see if that works with reasonable performance | 21:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | with drumset on back and guitar in his hands | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | hihat on his head | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | blowing a harp | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG | no, I use beat-maker on the N900 for drums | 21:07 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: There is some experimental camera-based contraption that will let you do the air guitar -) | 21:07 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, I don't know how to play a guitar, let alone an air one :P | 21:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, so no drumset in red wood anymore? | 21:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I assume you tried VGBA already? | 21:08 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: But that is the whole point of the air guitar! =) | 21:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: air guitar is easy, it's never detuned :-P | 21:08 |
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| troulouliou | COuld anybody tells me what is the best replacement for appManager cause here it takes like 2 minutes to refresh | 21:09 |
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| troulouliou | and synaptic can not be installed due to scrollkeeper broken package | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, heh | 21:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nad you always get the right note | 21:09 |
| MohammadAG | I'm impressed with the N8's 300kbps BT speeds (with my laptop) | 21:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | you just need to lear to shake your head like an idiot :-P | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if it's BT 3.0 or something | 21:10 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, headbanging ftw :P | 21:10 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: 300? BT2.0 max should be 200 iirc | 21:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | also air guitars are considerably lower price than fenders | 21:11 |
| javispedro | ah | 21:11 |
| javispedro | a laptop with BT3.0? =) | 21:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: I have a few nice and cheap ones here, start at 20$ | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | no idea | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | I just got 300 | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | is the N8 3.0? | 21:12 |
| MohammadAG | apparently, it is | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, BT3.0? | 21:13 |
| * DocScrutinizer scratches head | 21:13 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | wasn't that the fake BT that' | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | s | 21:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually a WLAN? | 21:14 |
| MohammadAG | no, it's BT3.0 :) | 21:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Bluetooth 3.0 + HS (auch Seattle Release genannt) ... Unterstützung eines zusätzlichen Highspeed-Kanals auf Basis von WLAN und UWB | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth | 21:18 |
| javispedro | Aber ich spreche nür ein bischen Deutsch! | 21:19 |
| javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth#Bluetooth_v3.0_.2B_HS | 21:20 |
| comawhite | anyone using Qt in Maemo? | 21:20 |
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| MohammadAG | most of the developers probably | 21:23 |
| javispedro | dammit | 21:24 |
| javispedro | anyone knows what's the protocol apple uses for cdrom sharing? | 21:24 |
| javispedro | totally offtopic question =) | 21:24 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, probably sftp :P | 21:25 |
| MohammadAG | dubbed as iShareCDs | 21:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | N8 official Nokia specs: Bluetooth Spezifikation 2.1 + EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) | 21:25 |
| kerio | MohammadAG: i doubt it | 21:26 |
| kerio | it doesn't share files | 21:26 |
| luke-jr | DocScrutinizer: uh, so? | 21:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr: eh, yes? | 21:28 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, I see | 21:28 |
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| javispedro | smb for sharing cds with a netbook plain sucks | 21:28 |
| javispedro | no block access, smb process hogs mount point, etc etc | 21:29 |
| javispedro | s/smb process/smb process and/or windows client | 21:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: remote scsi? | 21:30 |
| javispedro | oooh | 21:31 |
| javispedro | thanksssssss | 21:31 |
| javispedro | there's a windows client for that seems | 21:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: I'm just babbling buzzwords | 21:32 |
| javispedro | exactly what I'm looking for, buzzwords to google | 21:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: btw "nür" is quite charming | 21:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | the rest was too perfect to be true | 21:35 |
| javispedro | heh | 21:36 |
| korhojoa | hmm. the n900 should be able to be upgraded to bt 3.0, right? it's got bt 2.1 with edr and wlan, which is all that is required | 21:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | korhojoa: probably not. | 21:41 |
| korhojoa | why not? | 21:41 |
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| SpeedEvil | korhojoa: The BT and wlan interfaces are not designed to work together. | 21:42 |
| korhojoa | isn't that all about the drivers to make it happen? | 21:42 |
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| SpeedEvil | They require very intimate scheduling to make it happen - below the level of what drivers do. | 21:42 |
| korhojoa | ah, okay. | 21:42 |
| kerio | :( | 21:42 |
| SpeedEvil | Think more of 'machine gun firing through propellor' than 'flying in formation' | 21:42 |
| korhojoa | That is an interesting way to describe it | 21:43 |
| SpeedEvil | I couldn't think of a car analogy. :( | 21:43 |
| korhojoa | more like firing injectors than changing gears | 21:44 |
| SpeedEvil | that works | 21:44 |
| * SpeedEvil has a open-source ECU he needs to put together. | 21:44 | |
| korhojoa | megasquirt? | 21:45 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:45 |
| korhojoa | heh. a friend of mine has built a few | 21:45 |
| korhojoa | he's got a go-fast button :D | 21:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | :) | 21:46 |
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| korhojoa | for racing, it totally screws up emissions but gives him like 35 hp | 21:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I was actually more wondering about go slow buttons. | 21:47 |
| RST38h | Mhm, CNN is covering the black friday as if it were some highly important global event | 21:47 |
| korhojoa | ahh, saving fuel? | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | And extra measures - for example - cylinder idling | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Also pulse mode. | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Somewhat similar to 'pulse and glide' - but implemented in the ECU | 21:47 |
| korhojoa | interesting | 21:47 |
| SpeedEvil | Run at near WOT all the time - and just pulse on and off. | 21:48 |
| korhojoa | firing only two cylinders at high rpms to save stuff? | 21:48 |
| korhojoa | where stuff is fuel | 21:48 |
| SpeedEvil | that sort of thing, yes. | 21:48 |
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| slonopotamus | is it possible to use n900 as a modem? | 22:04 |
| BugBlue | bluetooth 'modem' or so? | 22:05 |
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| slonopotamus | yep, bt | 22:05 |
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| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: thing is that isn't firmware in wlan and bt module upgradeable | 22:05 |
| jacekowski | SpeedEvil: i would go with option that hardware is capable of doing it - just firmware would need changing | 22:06 |
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| comawhite | why is there ARM and X86? | 22:44 |
| GAN900 | comawhite, different purposes? | 22:44 |
| comawhite | like? | 22:45 |
| GAN900 | comawhite, Wikipedia really sounds like a good place to start here. | 22:46 |
| MohammadAG | architecture is a good keyword | 22:47 |
| GAN900 | Federal or Ranch? | 22:47 |
| Noma | it's like asking why there is Xbox and Playstation... | 22:47 |
| MohammadAG | no | 22:48 |
| MohammadAG | that's a bad example :P | 22:48 |
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| Noma | well, they are from different developers and do a nearly same thing but are not compatible with each other | 22:48 |
| dRbiG | gee | 22:49 |
| dRbiG | Noma: read about each of them :) | 22:49 |
| Noma | i know what the difference is, but i just tried to find an analogue | 22:49 |
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| dRbiG | oh, sorry, meant to addres comawhite | 22:50 |
| dRbiG | i guess i'm tired | 22:50 |
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| comawhite | i just need the gist of it ;P | 22:50 |
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| dRbiG | the gist is that arm is embedded and x86 is old and not for embedded appilcations | 22:51 |
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| comawhite | sorry I mean why is there both x86 and arm on the maemo sdk | 22:52 |
| dRbiG | ooo | 22:52 |
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| comawhite | sorry I should have been more clear | 22:52 |
| dRbiG | because you do developement on a 'big' computer with x86 | 22:54 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | Hello!!! | 23:07 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900? | 23:08 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | who can I ask about a probem I have with Canola2 on my N900? | 23:09 |
| jacekowski | ask here | 23:11 |
| comawhite | KaRaan25ro_, no need to repeatedly ask | 23:11 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | on the channal? | 23:11 |
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| comawhite | no the phone | 23:11 |
| comawhite | yes | 23:12 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | ok | 23:12 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | sorry... don't know the rules | 23:12 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | so... | 23:12 |
| comawhite | i have no idea about your question | 23:12 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | I have installed Canola2 on my N900 but since I couldn't find a version for N900 I have installed one for N810 and it works fine but I can't type | 23:13 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | the keyboard does not respond to the comands | 23:13 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | so I can't login to Picasa, for example | 23:14 |
| comawhite | blah scratchbox's site gives horrible speed | 23:15 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | ? | 23:15 |
| comawhite | i have a 3 GB/s connection and only getting 100-200KB/s | 23:15 |
| jacekowski | 3GB/s? | 23:16 |
| jacekowski | WOW | 23:17 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | what is that have to do with the fact my N900 keyboard does not work in Canola2? | 23:17 |
| jacekowski | whole datacentre could run on that | 23:17 |
| GAN900 | KaRaan25ro_, Enlightenment's keyboard input is broken. | 23:17 |
| GAN900 | Dunno if there's a workaround | 23:18 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | aha | 23:18 |
| GAN900 | May be able to scare somebody up in #canola for specifics. | 23:18 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | so there's no way I can make it work... the only option is just to forget about Canola on N900 | 23:18 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | no one on that channel says anything | 23:19 |
| Choom | people aren't exactly there (or here) awaiting questions | 23:19 |
| Choom | regard IRC as you woul regard a sticky note | 23:20 |
| Choom | post the question and come back later to see if there's an answer | 23:20 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | ok... well in the meantime all I have to do is NOT logout, right? | 23:20 |
| GAN900 | What's the other one? | 23:20 |
| GAN900 | Media Center? | 23:20 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | I have no idea... the last time I have used IRC was more than 10 years ago so I got the instructions to login here from someone I wrote an email to help me this this problem | 23:22 |
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| corecode | anybody else also interested in having modest put sent mail on imap? | 23:34 |
| nidO | yes | 23:34 |
| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: right, basically, reponse times can vary from seconds to hours depending on the channel you're in | 23:34 |
| corecode | nidO: found some solution already? | 23:35 |
| nidO | and all the other things that would actually make it function as an imap mail client :< | 23:35 |
| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: it's friday evening in Europe though, so most people won't be very active | 23:35 |
| corecode | nidO: what is missing? | 23:35 |
| nidO | corecode: currently my best solution to having a functioning imap client on my n900 is to simply carry me e90 as well. | 23:35 |
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| corecode | nidO: what is missing? | 23:36 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | crashanddie: if I leave an email address for potential answers, do you think I'd have a chance of response? | 23:37 |
| nidO | well as you say lack of sent messages on the server, imap-idle being disabled, no local folder subscriptions are the 3 major huge enormous flaws imo | 23:37 |
| digitalstimulus | does anyone know where PiTiVi config settings are located in ~/? | 23:37 |
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| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: slim to none | 23:37 |
| digitalstimulus | sorry, wrong channel | 23:37 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | great... | 23:37 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | thanks anyway... I'll keep on searching | 23:38 |
| corecode | nidO: what are local folder subscriptions? | 23:38 |
| nidO | corecode: being able to set which folders you're subscribed to locally rather than amending the server-side account-wide subscriptions | 23:38 |
| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: how about you restate your problem in a relatively short and concise sentence? | 23:38 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | i can't type anything in Canola2 on my N900 :) | 23:39 |
| corecode | nidO: ah | 23:39 |
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| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6511 | 23:40 |
| povbot | Bug 6511: Unable to type text in Canola on N900 | 23:40 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | I found that link a few seconds ago too | 23:41 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | thank you! | 23:41 |
| crashanddie | KaRaan25ro_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=429114#post429114 | 23:41 |
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| corecode | oh what? remote drafts work, but remote sent mail doesn't? | 23:44 |
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| KaRaan25ro_ | crashanddie: thank you for the link... I hope to find a way to repair it :) | 23:46 |
| KaRaan25ro_ | Good night toall | 23:46 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: The problem is that it requires very low-level coordination of packets and radios. I don't think the bluetooth module can do this. | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: at least - typically. Also - the bluetooth module is much 'smarter' than the wlan one. | 23:47 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: It does quite a lot internally, whereas the wlan one is - more or less (on the transmit side) software builds a packet, and tells the hardware exactly when to transmit. | 23:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: Also - session-migration between two modes is fun, and there may not be enough internal data exposed. | 23:49 |
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| jacekowski | that's up to firmware to decide | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | jacekowski: for example, this precludes GSM->wifi bridging. | 23:49 |
| jacekowski | what is exposed | 23:49 |
| SpeedEvil | Firmware and hardware. | 23:49 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - assuming for a moment that it's a CSR radio - that I think it is - most of the bluetooth code is closed. | 23:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | You can run software on the chip, but it's not allowed to see the insides of the bluetooth stack. | 23:51 |
| SpeedEvil | actually - no - it's broadcom | 23:52 |
| SpeedEvil | dunno how that architecture works. | 23:52 |
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| corecode | any hints how to change the brightness of the front camera? | 23:55 |
| GAN900 | corecode, add a 12k | 23:59 |
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