IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-11-12

VladNistor*rootfs flash00:00
alteregobattery is low00:00
VladNistorit's plugged in :(00:00
VladNistorand it seems to be in a loop :(00:00
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alteregoOh, reflash then00:01
VladNistori did, twice :))00:01
alteregoemmc aswell? :P00:01
VladNistorredownloaded the .bin, maybe it wasn't downloaded corectly00:01
javispedroreflash emmc + rootfs from some other computer00:01
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VladNistornope, not the emmc00:01
tobis87Maybe a kernel, kernel modules mismatch.00:01
infobotfrom memory, pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update00:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i'm just looking at it00:02
jogacan pr1.3 be installed OTA at all?00:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: and i may have been wrong about boot process00:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: it looks like it's 4 stage00:02
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: rom -> nokia x-loader -> nolo xldr -> nolo scnd00:03
jacekowskior hmmm00:03
jacekowskiit may be something else00:03
yaccSo after pr1.3 it's meego time?00:03
javispedrothere is no meego.00:04
javispedrothe cake is a lie.00:04
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tobis87I have seen that kernel-power has patched radio-bcm2048 to support rds data. Does an app already make use of it?00:05
DocScrutinizerdidn't it work since ages?00:07
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javispedroI guess it's not rds but rather tmc00:08
javispedrowhich was news not long ago00:08
VladNistorwell I used the redownloaded image and it now works, thanks for your help :)00:08
javispedrords has been since forever00:08
tobis87;a=blob;f=driver-n900/radio-bcm2048-2.6.28.diff;h=d60ada5a4cd664bff10682db4a76cca915c66dd1;hb=master <- It says RDS, but I don't know for sure.00:09
javispedrotmc, tmc, tmc!00:09
cehtehDocScrutinizer: thanks00:11
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tobis87javispedro: yes tmc as well. however the readme says: "Patch to enable V4L compliant RDS data output on Nokia N900, comes through /dev/radio1 (/dev/radio0 is the FM transmitter)."00:26
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nvm, nolo 2nd is just a temporary bootloader for coldflashing00:30
prontoso i updated my n900 today, and now fMMS has stoped working, i can no longer revieve photo-texts00:30
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irlameI have a question about using unprotected wifi. When I open the media player I see the person's computer's name and click on it and it does nothing. Can they look at or take files from my n900?00:32
pupnikpeople can look at the data transmitted over the air in an unprotected wifi network00:33
jacekowskiirlame: that's just upnp you see there00:34
jacekowskiirlame: it's enabled by default by no files are shared by default00:34
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blackthornejust ordered my N900, can't wait to hold it on my hands...00:37
blackthorneone question, is maemo development going to die or somehow integrated with Meego ?00:38
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mgedminthere's not going to be an official meego image for the N90000:39
mgedminand Nokia most likely will not release any updated Maemo 5 versions00:39
mgedminthere's some level of community support00:39
irlameThanks iDont did you mean to say "but no files are shared"?00:40
blackthorneoh well, the one thing I want to try, is a web2py ( ) version00:40
blackthornedo you see a reason why shouldn't I go with this?00:40
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pupnikey cool lcuk starred in  UX meets code videos01:11
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* javispedro writes pathetic gesture recognition algorithm01:21
SpeedEvilFor use with fapman?01:22
javispedrofapman requies pathetic gestures? :)01:22
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javispedrothe sort of algorithm that only considers start->end points01:22
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pupnik_javispedro: finally lots of youtube videos about PreenV01:29
pupnik_surprising and nice that some of the games rescale correctly01:30
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Venemo_N900hi guys01:34
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: hey :)01:34
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Venemo_N900what's up?01:35
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Venemo_N900MohammadAG: for some reason, my N900 did not start pulseaudio on startup... I had to do 'start pulseaudio'01:36
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MohammadAGhmm, and that worked?01:36
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yaccMohammadAG, I've had twice also the problem that pulse audio did not work. The first time I have no idea if pulse was dead or just not working but second time I checked and pulseaudio was not there.01:38
MohammadAGI encountered pulseaudio not starting01:38
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MohammadAGbut starting it always failed01:38
Venemo_N900anyway, I have not seen this before01:38
yaccMohammadAG, the first time it also did not start. The second time a start pulseaudio did fix the issue.01:38
andaxmerlin_1991: i have not experienced any problems, my host is[]01:38
MohammadAGatm, I'm on power45 after a reflash, and i haven't had it01:38
* timeless_mbp sighs01:39
jacekowskidoes anybody here have possibly link to that n900 u-boot01:39
* timeless_mbp needs a picture of a folder01:39
pupnik_i'm happy to see that nokia was offering a position for a PA developer01:39
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: what is power45?01:39
timeless_mbphey. someone was asking me about md5sums of libstdc++01:39
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timeless_mbpi was right, we do prelink the fiasco images01:40
MohammadAGversion 4501:40
timeless_mbpbut we don't (can't iusefully) do that for OTA01:40
timeless_mbpjacekowski: i need a picture of /etc/osso-af-defines/01:40
andaxpupnik_: PA?01:40
Venemo_N900MohammadAG: oh, ok01:41
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jacekowskitimeless_mbp: picture?01:41
andaxuuhh, netsplit?01:41
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pupnik_pulseaudio andax01:42
javispedrobtw, does anybody know how to tell the n900' syslog daemon that I do not want it to buffer messages just in case "they were repeated N times"?01:42
andaxpupnik_: ok01:42
* javispedro just randomizes the message contents, I do not want to read sysklogd source code now...01:44
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SpeedEvilAppend - to the entry??01:56
SpeedEvilSomething like that01:56
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SpeedEvilmaybe not01:58
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Venemo_N900good evening guys01:59
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jacekowskii managed to change NOKIA text on boot up02:05
jacekowskifrom NOLO02:05
jacekowskiso i can modify nolo02:05
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alteregoWait, what?02:06
alteregoThe image?02:06
SpeedEvilCan you make it say 'Main screen turn on' ?02:06
alteregoMy gf just dropped my netbook on her face.02:07
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: nope02:07
SpeedEvilIs that a euphamism?02:07
jacekowskiat the moment i just modified it by changing random bytes there02:08
Robot101DocScrutinizer: its very clearly a modified telepathy-sofiasip binary - it even has the same COPYING, AUTHORS and README file :P02:08
jacekowskii don't understand format of that picture02:08
Robot101DocScrutinizer: so I'm gonna send them a polite mail as I couldn't find the source (to that bit) on their website02:08
alteregojacekowski: do you know how big it is?02:08
SpeedEvilWhat would NOLO changing do? Allow better low battery behaviour?02:08
jacekowskialterego: yes02:08
jacekowskiSpeedEvil: flash uboot there02:09
alteregoIf it's compreessed I bet it's a png, and there should be a header02:09
SpeedEvilalterego: this is nokia.02:09
alteregoHow big is it then?02:09
SpeedEvilalterego: It's probably SVG02:09
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alteregoSVG in a boot loader? :P02:09
jacekowskiwait a sec02:09
jacekowskii can give you a copy02:09
SpeedEvilYou know it makes sense - it allows for easy change of resolution.02:10
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merlin_1991andax: I'm getting connection reset by peer all the time, while my connection to quakenet stays stable02:13
alteregoSpeedEvil: but nolo is custom built for specific hardware revisions.02:16
jacekowskiok so pictures are here
jacekowskialterego: not really02:16
jacekowskialterego: i checked02:16
alteregodefinitely compressed then :)02:16
jacekowskialterego: there is no differences at all that could affect stuff02:16
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alteregojacekowski: didn't say there was, just merely that's how it worked.02:17
jacekowskipicture 1 is the one that say NOKIA02:17
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jacekowskiit doesn't look like it's compressed02:20
MohammadAGwhat's picture 2 and 3?02:21
jacekowskii know that changing random bytes in first one changed logo02:22
MohammadAGto what? lol02:22
jacekowskijust got messed up02:22
jacekowskibut based on entropy it looks like it's not compressed02:23
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jacekowski    4.005:1,  1.998 bits/byte, 75.03% saved, 6656 in, 1662 out.02:24
jacekowski    1.909:1,  4.190 bits/byte, 47.63% saved, 3964 in, 2076 out.02:24
jacekowski    1.209:1,  6.615 bits/byte, 17.31% saved, 1092 in, 903 out.02:24
alteregomaybe it's a bitmap just describing the text.02:24
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jacekowskiso it's compressible02:24
alteregoWhen you played with it, was there still a normal white background?02:25
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alteregoAnd just the text was messed up?02:25
jacekowskilet me swap them02:25
jacekowskiand see what happens02:25
b-man`MohammadAG is soo mean: XD02:26
MohammadAGat least it's in C instead of python now :P02:27
b-man`yea, i'll give you a +1 for that XD02:27
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andax"Over 1,200 Dhrystone MIPS using the superscalar ARM Cortex-A8" 2.2 GHz p4 has 4148 :
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jacekowski2nd picture is NOKIA logo thing02:29
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jacekowskiand it looks like a bitmap thing02:29
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MohammadAGthe NOKIA logo is available as a PNG on device afaik02:32
MohammadAGnot sure where02:32
MohammadAGreplacing it changes the shutdown image02:32
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jacekowskiwriting 00000's at logo location makes everything white02:34
jacekowskiexcept small usb symbol in corner02:34
MohammadAGjacekowski, compare the image above to the ones you got02:35
Funnyfacehmm I installed PR 1.3 and now nothing shows up in my program manager :\02:35
MohammadAGit's probably the same image02:35
jacekowskiMohammadAG: look at link i pasted02:35
MohammadAGUSB logo and 770 icon (R&D) are layers02:35
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alteregoI wrote this:
alteregolast night because in dark in bed the keypad and backlight min brightness is stiill too bright :D02:36
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MohammadAGmce shall interfere02:37
alteregoIt does a bit02:37
alteregoBut with sustained use it's fine02:37
MohammadAGstop mce02:37
MohammadAGand you're done02:37
SpeedEvilalterego: I have that - well - a similar one - set on a 'queen beecon'02:37
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MohammadAGalso, I found a better way02:38
MohammadAGlock the screen and sleep, it's what beds are for :P02:38
SpeedEvilI find the n900 ideal - better than a kindle - for reading books before going to sleep.02:39
SpeedEvilwith kindle I need to screw with the light to get the right lighting level02:39
alteregoYeah, induces eye strain earlier making you more fatigued ^.^02:39
SpeedEvilI personally don't find it a problem02:40
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SpeedEvileven reading large amounts - whole books02:40
* MohammadAG fries backlight, passes device to alterego 02:40
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jacekowskiwho knows anything about n900 uboot02:42
alteregoMohammadAG: I was playing (fixing actually) an N8 for a friend the other day.02:43
alteregoKinda want one :(02:43
MohammadAGjacekowski, ali1234 on #meego02:43
alteregojacekowski: I know a bit02:43
MohammadAGhe ported it02:43
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MohammadAGhe's not there atm02:43
MohammadAGalterego, it's a cool device when it works02:43
alteregoI think I've fixed the ssh blocking issue in meego02:43
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MohammadAGalterego, this didn't work on Symbian^3 FYI
alteregoMohammadAG: I kept finding I was pressing the space around dialogs to dismiss/close/cancel them and getting a bit frustrated :(02:44
MohammadAGyou have to press cancel xD02:45
alteregoMohammadAG: any reason for it?02:45
MohammadAGalterego, no idea, no debugging on symbian02:45
alteregoI know, it's a pain in the ass02:45
MohammadAGother than TRK02:45
alteregoOh, that's lame02:45
MohammadAGyou can only test over USB02:45
MohammadAGbattery low02:45
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alteregoHow does it not work?02:45
alteregoIs anything shown?02:46
MohammadAGyes, the UI buttons02:46
MohammadAGand the QProgressBar02:46
MohammadAGQWebView doesn't display the page at all02:47
MohammadAGhowever, it seems to load it02:47
MohammadAGthe progress bar moves from 10 -> 100, then it's hidden, meaning the signal for loading finished was sent02:48
MohammadAGbut QWebView remains white02:48
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MohammadAGanyone got google contacts with mail for exchange working?02:58
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alteregoAh, some late night t.m.o-ary03:03
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alteregog'night folks03:08
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mvaxirc still very alive03:39
mvaxim glad03:39
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mvaxdoes anyone know if is there a way to me disable that vibra thing when receive something from conversations (jabber or skipe&03:43
lolloodoes skype have file sending?03:45
lolloodoes it send pictures?03:45
lollooso does skype offer file sending to contacts?03:46
lolloodo you know mvax ?03:47
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lolloohow is skype with you mvax ?03:50
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lolloodoes it send files to contact on n900?03:51
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mvaxi mail it when i need, cannot get that plugin in extras-devel working03:51
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lollooit send files on n9703:52
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mvaxyes :/03:54
mvaxi got wrecked boot last morning with that power kernel upgrade03:55
lollooyeah me too03:55
lollooare you using 44?03:55
lolloo44 supports U-boot for meeGo03:56
mvaxdoes 44 working fine to u?03:56
lollooyes it does unless you have multiboot installed03:56
lolloothere is a way round for that03:56
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lollooam using it now03:56
mvaxdid you flesh whole firmware or just kernel?03:57
lollooFlashed only kernel03:58
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lollooI didnt do it03:58
lollooI just installed it from app manager03:59
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mvaxi will taste meego this weekend04:00
mvaxduring the week its hard to me04:00
mvaxwhat about webOS04:01
mvaxahve u ever tried it in n900:04:02
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b-man` - this would be fun  to implement on the N900 with video-out to a tv :)04:08
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b-man`Imagine the games you could make with it04:09
b-man`lcuk ^ :)04:09
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pupnik_b-man`: how is the camera recognizing the hands?04:13
pupnik_is he using LEDs or something to click?04:14
lollooone question please guys04:14
lolloohow can I check my firmware version on n900?04:14
lollooor which kernel am using?04:14
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pupnik_uname -a from shell will give you kernel info lolloo04:15
b-man`pupnik_: i'm reading into it right now04:15
pupnik_  looks like LEDs were used04:16
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lolloothis is what I got04:16
lollooLinux Nokia-N900 #1 PREEMPT Wed Nov 10 15:18:00 EET 2010 armv7l unknown04:16
pupnik_oh no... something difference04:16
lolloowow multitouch04:17
b-man`via camera :)04:17
b-man`and shadow tracking04:17
b-man`this would be cool for an interactive game on the N90004:18
lolloowow can N900 do same as Iphone multitouch?04:18
b-man`with this, perhaps :)04:18
pupnik_if he's recognizing hands just by the shape of shadows, that is worth a PhD04:19
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pupnik_i'm waiting for the next killer app04:20
pupnik_language translation from camera images04:20
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pupnik_take snapshot of restaurant menu: see translation04:21
b-man`pupnik_: maybe you could rig up an algorithm that uses this software ;)04:21
b-man`since it tracks shadows04:22
b-man`you could draw letters xD04:22
pupnik_lardman's app identifies qr codes04:22
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SpeedEvilAdd voice recognition and translation04:38
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Gorrothhmm, apparently voice nav exists for the n900, in the form of sygic's app04:54
Gorrothand supposedly mappero does it too, but i haven't figured out how yet04:54
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Maceris gftp still broken?05:15
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Maceranybody know a good X ftp client w sftp support?05:15
Maceror ncurses one?05:15
mvaxno i dont05:16
mvaxno i dont05:16
Macerhm. let me see if gftp is better05:16
Macerhas been a while since i tried05:16
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GorrothMacer: i like ncftp in console (ncurses)05:21
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Gorrothin fact, i like ncftp over any other ftp client05:21
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SpeedEvilncftp is good05:27
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b-man`hmm, my flashplayer crashed, wonderful \o/05:54
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GAN900Gotta love support articles about troubleshooting why an application isn't starting that describe finding the relevant logfiles by using the application06:00
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Termanagood morning06:21
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Macergftp still sucks06:27
Macerwell... not really but you cant double click to go into dirs or hit enter to do it06:27
Maceri wish there were an ncftp for maemo with sftp06:28
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Macerwonder if there is a samba supporting filemanager06:30
johnxwhat about sshfs+normal filemanager?06:33
Macerhavent tried it06:34
Macerbut i needed something that didnt require mounting heh06:34
Maceri could only wonder what chaos would become on disconnected ssh mouns06:34
Maceri would rather use a client06:34
johnxthey eventually timeout06:35
johnxor you can just umount them after the fact06:35
johnxooooor, you can bring them up on demand (with autofuse) and down on network disconnect06:35
Maceryeah but at least with a client i know where i stand plus i am sure you can set the timeout/reconnect stuff06:35
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Macerbut no resume for sshfs with the fm ;)06:36
johnxenjoy gftp :)06:36
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Macergftp totally sucks lol06:40
Macerand openssh sftp sucks as a client as well06:40
Macerno delete in filemanager?06:41
Maceror move? lol06:41
johnxI have move and delete ...06:42
johnxor we even talking about the same file manager?06:42
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orlokcrashanddie: lol06:51
orlokcrashanddie: you already got pasted onto wwp06:51
pupnik_need Dwarf Fortress for maemo06:54
wmaroneo noes06:54
wmaronelol, can't post anonymously on a forum full of "anonymous"06:54
wmaroneoh and whoever posted that is a tool06:56
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Termanaphonephags? I am appalled07:00
TermanaWe all have a life beyond #maemo right?07:00
Termana....... right?07:00
orlokanonymous are noobs anyway, i remember the anti-sci protests from the 90's07:02
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orlokpretty sure thats what triggered assange into setting up wikileaks too07:03
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GAN900internet retardation07:03
GAN900It's catching07:04
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orlokall the socked anons/channers are turning up07:04
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djszapiis there any change to jump to the desired page in the office-tools (pdf) ?07:50
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pupnik  "Oilfurnace, an illustrated Dwarf Fortress tale" [ things you can do in Dwarf Fortress ]08:09
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GorrothTermana: i do.  i'm going to union square tomorrow to test out squid and ettercap on my n90008:16
Gorrothso that will be away from #maemo08:16
Gorroththough, i might log in while on the move08:17
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chxhrm, ettercap is ported?08:20
Gorrothyes, i ported it08:21
Gorrothi also ported squid and libnet08:21
Gorroththey're all in extras-devel08:21
Gorrothchx: squid has transparent proxy support and ssl bump (about to test at least transparent proxy support)08:22
Gorrothchx: ettercap has every feature except passive dns enabled.  can't figure out how to get that working yet08:22
Gorrothchx: if you have some sort of problem with it, you can email the maintainer listed on it, and it will come directly to me08:26
chxmmmm nice.08:26
chxalthough never saw emails on those packags08:26
chxwhat did i miss?08:26
Gorrothapt-cache show ettercap-ng | grep -i maintainer08:27
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chxnot on the it.08:31
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Gorrothyes, i haven't posted info on my website yet08:32
Gorrothi'm still working on my site08:32
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jvesiluomahmm, anyone here familiar with gstreamer?08:48
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slonopotamusdamned patchers...08:50
slonopotamusdid you know that diablo is NOT linux-omap-2.6.21?08:50
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Gorrothis the patch in debian/patches?08:56
slonopotamusGorroth: diablo kernel has orig.tar.gz + diff.gz patch08:57
slonopotamusGorroth: where diff.gz is 300k08:57
slonopotamusGorroth: but the point is orig.tar.gz is _already_ something patched08:58
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slonopotamusthat's one of the reasons i hate debian packaging. it encourages messing with upstream tarballs.09:02
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TermanaDesireslonopotamus: why should it be linux-omap?09:05
TermanaDesireIt should be the mainline .21 kernel09:05
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slonopotamusTermanaDesire: because uname says omap-2.6.21?09:09
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Gorrothoh, i see what you mean09:11
Gorrothwell, i thought the point of the debian packaging and debian/patches (quilt setup) was so you don't mess with upstream tarballs09:12
slonopotamusTermanaDesire: okay, orig.tar.gz contains fs/jffs2/respool.c now show me _any_ 2.6.21 that does have it.09:12
slonopotamusGorroth: you do. because you run 1. unpack 2. run dpkg-buildpackage that creates orig.tar.gz09:13
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Gorrothyeah.  well, i used debian/patches to add my patch for ettercap-ng, and it created the orig (actual orig) and the diff for me09:15
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slonopotamusGorroth: that's what i talk about.09:18
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knightstalkerHello,Any one here who can help me with usb host mode?The problem is that my usb's led blinks for a moment and then it seems like its dead,retrying the process still gives no blinks until I restart my phone and retry then it blinks again and dies :P09:20
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slonopotamusso. anyone knows what was used as a base for diablo kernel?09:21
johnxknightstalker, what devices have you tried with it?09:23
johnxalso, my guess: not enough power to run that device09:23
knightstalkerjohnx,checked the kernel messages,it says something like power too09:24
johnxyeah. that's your answer then09:24
knightstalkerbut its an age old 128mb flash device09:24
johnxold ones can be the worst09:24
johnxif they don't follow the rules when negotiating for more power, then they'll fail09:25
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johnxthey also might have been lazy when designing the electronics: it might actually draw more power than a newer stick simply because the electronics are inefficient09:25
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knightstalkerkingmax falied too -.-09:27
Gorrothso, i can get the MobileHotspot app working.  it looks like it is doing the exact same thing i was doing when i wrote my own script that configures iptables and all that.09:27
Gorrothbut i can't connect to it from any device09:27
Gorrothprobably because the stupid thing runs in ad-hoc mode and the drivers and/or hardware don't seem to support master mode09:28
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johnxhostap capable cards FTW09:29
Gorrothis the n900 capable of running hostapd successfully?09:30
Gorrothif it can, i can package it up09:30
Gorrothhmm, my iMac can see the wifi network.  just can't connect to it09:30
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Gorrothor... maybe it CAN connect!09:31
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johnxGorroth, hostapd != hostap module09:35
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Gorrothi see09:37
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Gorrothwell, i can get the iMac connecting, and then i configure the client's IP/netmask/routing correctly, but i can't even ping the n90009:38
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pupnika jaw-dropping comic depicting the history of a Dwarf Fortress enclave
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knightstalkerh-e-n didn't need kernel flash right?09:44
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slonopotamusone more time. anyone knows what kernel version is stored in orig.tar.gz of diablo kernel?09:54
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* slonopotamus hates such moments09:57
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asj_me too09:58
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RST38hmoo, gentlemen10:06
johnxm00f RST38h10:07
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TermanaDesireMorning crashanddie_10:25
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knightstalkerNope,it doesn't work,not with any flash disks10:28
knightstalkerthey blink for a second,and then they are dead,they blink on VBUS boost on10:29
knightstalkerfurthermore,I had very weird stuff with my external HDD,its led was on green all the time after vbust boost on,still couldn't be mounted10:30
knightstalkerany ideas?10:30
crashanddie_Chocolate dumplings10:31
crashanddie_Now there's an idea.10:31
knightstalkerw00t w00t :p10:32
knightstalkerand can you explain that idea?10:32
maybeWTFit's dumplings with chocolate i'd guess10:33
crashanddie_maybeWTF, good guess10:33
knightstalkerThats not helpful,any other ideas?10:34
crashanddie_knightstalker, ever heard of clootie dumpling? doughboys?10:34
crashanddie_google iot10:34
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knightstalkeris that...relevent? -.-10:36
crashanddie_you asked "any ideas"10:36
crashanddie_Chocolate dumplings qualify as "any".10:36
knightstalkerso I fix 'any ideas about my problem'10:36
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crashanddie_let's start from the beginning, what exactly are you attempting to do?10:37
knightstalkerconnecting my flash to my n90010:37
crashanddie_your "flash"?10:37
knightstalkerusb flash/cool disk whatever10:38
slonopotamusafter some investigation, i conclude that diablo kernel orig.tar.gz doesn't have _any_ exact kernel version10:38
slonopotamusmore than that, it doesn't contain any specific commit from linux(-omap) git.10:39
slonopotamus~curse everyone who modifies upstream tarballs10:40
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, everyone who modifies upstream tarballs !10:40
infobotusbhost is, like,
crashanddie_knightstalker, ok, so how are you going about it?10:40
knightstalkerwell,I install h-e-n,got female-to-female adapter,connected the adapter to my Nokia usb adapter,opened h-e-n,connected the flash to adapter,clicked vbus boost on10:42
crashanddie_could be your adapter asks for too much power10:42
knightstalkerIt blinked a sec and then stopped,I clicked enumerate,nothing happened,waited 10 seconds and clicked mount10:42
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crashanddie_you're probably better off using a auxiliary-powered USB hub10:42
crashanddie_MohammadAG, bought a 23" 1080p screen for the PS310:42
crashanddie_MohammadAG, and Cod Black Ops10:43
crashanddie_MohammadAG, the story doesn't make any sense, but it looks fucking good.10:43
crashanddie_MohammadAG, aiming is a bit swidgy, hard to know when you killed an enemy or not. Sometimes they resuscitate a whole minute after you've shot them10:44
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yaccAny idea where the builtin IM app keeps it's logs?10:44
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sejohmm can't install khweeteur? missing deps?10:45
crashanddie_MohammadAG, you start every level/checkpoint with something like 2 billion ammo clips, meaning you could possibly just blast on continuously and not bother about actually hitting anyone. Other than that, jeep/helicopter/boat sequences are heaps of fun. Doesn't beat MW2 in my opinion, though.10:45
crashanddie_MohammadAG, if you have the cash to spend, buy it, and sell it once finished. If you're tight on cash, wait 'til someone can lend it to you10:45
knightstalkerhow much is it?10:48
knightstalkerthere,I mean10:48
RST38hSomething is wrong here10:52
RST38hcrashanddie: How come I do not see MohammadAG talking, just yourself?10:52
slonopotamusMohammadAG: wrt dvd playing with n900. tried bumping cpu freq to reduce framedrop?10:52
RST38hWeird crap10:52
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RST38hHmmmm, no /ignores10:53
slonopotamusMohammadAG: i see10:53
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phellarvRST38h: Me neither.10:53
RST38hslono, crash: Folks, are you sure you are not talking into the vacuum? =)10:54
slonopotamusMohammadAG: hmm, decoding on pvr? do we have some libs for that?10:55
knightstalkerI do not see MohammadAG either,but it doesn't matter :p10:56
slonopotamusRST38h: >.>10:56
slonopotamusMohammadAG: how many frames it drops?10:57
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slonopotamusMohammadAG: well then, bumping to 1ghz should allow it to play at full speed10:58
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slonopotamushmm, should i buy n800 for $90 or not?11:02
aquatixdepends on what you want it for :)11:04
slonopotamusfor my cruel experiments, of course11:05
aquatixthen, why not? :)11:05
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RST38hslono: if it is brand new, why not11:05
aquatixnot sure what they're going for nowadays though11:05
slonopotamusactually i have one already but its screen is kinda... used through by intensive on-screen keyboard usage :)11:05
RST38hslono: if it is used, skip on it11:05
RST38hslono: you are talking of that ru_maemo post?11:06
RST38hEh :)11:06
RST38hslono: Makes a decent mp3 player / book reader11:06
slonopotamusnah, decent book reader is palm m500 for $30 :)11:07
RST38htoo small, screen looks like shit11:08
slonopotamusi was using it for about 3 years for everything. programming, messaging (yep, it's kinda tricky to hold palm and phone connected with irda with one hand and type with other)11:09
slonopotamusthere were not many alternatives in early 200x11:09
slonopotamusi would by eink reader if they cost smth reasonable here (~$200, for example)11:11
RST38htrue, but still, m500 sounds uncomfortable11:11
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* slonopotamus needs to write and article on using inheritance with abstract data types11:14
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RST38hslono: Wwwwhy?11:21
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MohammadAGRST38h, ping11:35
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MohammadAGmorning khertan_11:42
aquatixslonopotamus: the Kindle 3 is kinda nice; not sure whether you can get it where you live11:43
* aquatix would have to ask some friends in the UK for example to ship it over to his country11:43
khertan_morning MohammadAG, still fighting with HAM ?11:44
crashanddie_Go germany! "A German judge has shot to popularity after letting 42 speeding drivers off without charges in the last week because he thinks speed controls merely serve to fill the state's coffers rather than prevent accidents."11:44
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crashanddie_slonopotamus, I need to write a authentication framework proposal11:45
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MohammadAGkhertan_, heh, your way might be the only way, but that's kinda nasty :/11:46
MohammadAGLOL crashanddie_11:47
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crashanddie_MohammadAG, you get my very short CoD BO review?11:47
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khertan_MohammadAG, exactly ... nasty ... as HAM :)11:48
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MohammadAGlol good point11:49
slonopotamuscrashanddie_: for what?11:49
crashanddie_slonopotamus, my company's VoIP server11:50
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crashanddie_going for fag, 'later11:53
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* Noobmonk3y grumbles12:14
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* MohammadAG grumbles back12:17
MohammadAGcan't compile xchat12:17
Noobmonk3yis there anywhere that has an example .desktop file?12:18
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Noobmonk3ywant to package up Kathy's knitting counter :P12:18
MohammadAGyour PM window12:18
khertan_Jaffa, pretty strange message you got on Khweeteur about sip version12:19
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* timeless_mbp switches to Nokia English + Nokia Theme to take some pictures12:21
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Jaffakhertan_: Indeed. Stack shows it comes from "from PyQt4 import *"12:25
khertan_PyQt4 import * ?12:27
khertan_Jaffa, funny as i use it without any problem12:27
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achipathe sip version thing is a version mismatch12:27
achipasomeone/something made a version mess there12:27
achipaon it12:27
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khertan_uh ?12:28
achipasip version ?12:28
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khertan_Jaffa, ?12:31
TermanaDesireQuestion mark, ?12:31
TermanaDesireQuestion mark C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER!12:32
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Jaffaachipa: Ah, cool12:39
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fdmlis there someone who can help me? Got problems with my nokia n900 it wont startup anymore and shows somting about   u-boot...12:42
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Noobmonk3yfdml: tried meego? and updated power kernel?12:46
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fdmlpower kernel update   no meego..12:48
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Noobmonk3yahh ok there's help pages on the forums i think, will go hunt one out12:49
fdmlno it wont even turn on.. Plz somebody help..12:49
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Noobmonk3yfdml: something like - ?12:50
Noobmonk3ywell, meh12:50
Noobmonk3yback to what i was doing i say :P12:50
fdmlyes!! that was what i see12:50
Noobmonk3ylooks like you just need to flash the stock kernel12:51
fdmlsh*t ... ok thank ill see if i can...12:51
Noobmonk3yfdml: -> if you are using windows -
Noobmonk3ygood luck :)12:51
Noobmonk3yshout back here if you have probs, i'm sure someone here has some clever ideas12:52
fdmlthanks alot Noobmonk3y!12:52
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Noobmonk3yhas anyone noticed how frals suddenly grew up and got a job, he's to busy stuffing trouts to come in here ;)12:55
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* frals slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout12:56
Noobmonk3yhi blackthorne12:56
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yaccfdml, it does turn on, but everything beyond u-boot is shoot. The good part is that u-boot is able to boot an alternate system from SD card.13:00
* Noobmonk3y likes having clever people in here13:01
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chem|styacc: tried matan's workaround?13:04
chem|styacc: did you install powerkernel?13:04
yaccchem|st, matan's workaround? and no I did not install the power kernel.13:05
Noobmonk3yyacc: have you got the problem too?13:06
yaccWhich problem?13:06
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Noobmonk3ythe not booting one?13:06
chem|styacc: or are you just repeating fdml?13:06
yaccOnly problem currently is that the phone has a tendency to have a dead pulseaudio.13:06
Noobmonk3ycouldnt tell if you where helping fdml or ^^ as chemist said13:06
chem|stNoobmonk3y: exactly13:06
* Noobmonk3y gets confused easily!13:06
yaccWhich I'd usually solve with a cronjob to check and start if missing, but this thing has no cron :(13:07
* chem|st is lost already13:07
yaccNoobmonk3y, I can try to help without having a non-booting phone ;)13:07
Noobmonk3yit's like watching the tv channel dave - all the repeats in the wrong order13:08
phellarv"I cannot let you do that, Dave"13:08
fdmlthanx for everyting everyone but realy got2go work now13:08
fdmlill try alter if its helps13:09
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ptlwhy all the joins and parts and no talk?13:33
ptlis freenode ok?13:33
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Noobmonk3yis it ever? ;)13:34
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khertan_shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :!13:38
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infoboti heard pr1.3 is the latest (and probably last) software update for Fremantle, available since Monday October 25 2010. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update13:39
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jvesiluomahmm, seems like libgphoto & gphoto2 compiled nicely in scratchbox13:47
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crashanddie_jvesiluoma, libraries usually do -- functioning is something else.14:00
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ieatlinthspda+ makes me smile... i'm downloading at 600KBps14:02
alteregoSimon McVittie, I know him! ^.^14:02
ieatlintyes, byes14:02
ieatlintabout 4.7mbit14:03
SwedeMikeI've actually been getting 781 kilobyte/s of TCP thruput on 7.2 megabit/s HSPA14:03
crashanddie_those are streaming downloads, aren't they?14:03
SpeedEvilMine tops out at about 120kbytes14:03
ieatlint2min and 30s for a 102mb file14:03
crashanddie_Multiples files/request would be slower, wouldn't it?14:03
ieatlintSwedeMike: nice14:03
SpeedEvilI've been streaming video quite a lot14:03
SwedeMikethis is with a single TCP session downloading a file using http.14:03
ieatlintyeah, tmo us here where they tell me it's 7.2mbit14:04
ieatlintbut i'm not complaining at 4.714:04
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SwedeMike781 kilobyte/s is pretty much theoretical max, as this was in our lab with so much signal strength there was absolutely no retransmissions between the base station and the terminal.14:04
Surfaor practical :)14:05
SwedeMikeand I was alone on the cell.14:05
SpeedEvilHow many phones can go at that speed on a tower?14:05
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SwedeMikeper cell, a tower might have multiple cells.14:06
SpeedEviland multiple segments14:06
crashanddie_realitygaps_away, don't feel obliged to make us aware of your away status.14:06
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ieatlintwell, i'm in a major city at 4am14:06
SwedeMikerealitygaps_away: irc has this "status2 built in, you don't need to change your nick.14:06
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ieatlintso i'm hitting pretty ideal14:06
ieatlinti've stopped out around 3.5mbit during daylight hours14:06
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khertan_crashanddie, you aren't tired to fight against all this stupid irc script ?14:07
* mgedmin gets the idea of embedding the current time in his nick, to helpfully let people know what time it is14:08
* mgedmin wonders how freenode reacts to people who change their nicks too often14:08
khertan_mgedmin, quite a good idea ... do not forget to include seconds ...14:08
* mgedmin decides not to risk it14:08
crashanddie_khertan_, nope14:08
khertan_mgedmin, you ll be kline first time then glined14:08
crashanddie_no, freenode just doesn't accept the nickchange14:09
khertan_oh ... nice14:09
khertan_i prefere the undernet way :)14:09
khertan_ban ;)14:09
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crashanddie_undernet's policies are archaic14:09
mgedminwhat a grim world we live in, where people can't even change their nicks in peace14:10
khertan_ok ... gedit is bugged on n900 ... but does the same on desktop ...14:10
* khertan_ need a good ftp linux client with a gui !14:10
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realitygapssorry guys, turning that away status off....14:15
realitygapsnp, sorry didnt notice that was happening....14:16
* realitygaps will no longer be away14:16
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ebzzryDoes hostmode now work with titan's kernel?14:23
SpeedEvilnot yet14:25
BCMMthis is all awesome and stuff, but why does it have to be happening when i'm too busy to break my phone?14:25
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xDaReaperxwhy was this topic deleted by the admin ?14:37
xDaReaperxthere was a simple tutorial on how to install webos Games14:37
xDaReaperxhow dumb14:37
BCMMis it illegal somewhere?14:38
jacekowskii would have to use c*** word14:38
xDaReaperxno it's not illegal14:38
jacekowskixDaReaperx: sort of is14:38
xDaReaperxit was simpler tutorial :
xDaReaperxthat tutorial above is dumb i wish that was deleted14:39
xDaReaperxso hard to understand14:39
jacekowskixDaReaperx: but less illegal than my fmtxd mod thats stil there14:39
xDaReaperxi used to install it in 2 command lines14:39
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xDaReaperxsometimes i hate the forums14:41
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Robot101sometimes you like them?!14:41
* Robot101 ducks14:41
xDaReaperxsometimes i totally hate14:41
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xDaReaperxi never like though14:41
alteregoI got a "thanks for your help" but he couldn't be arsed to click on the Thanks! button.14:42
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X-FadeGuys, it is a forum. Take a deep breath and get on with you life. Surely you got more important things to do?14:43
crashanddie_X-Fade, BUT THEY ARE WRONG!14:43
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xDaReaperxyeah i've got to install this web os game14:44
xDaReaperxand the admin deletes a well tutorialised topic14:44
X-FadeIf everybody lurking and posting on these forums would spend 1/10th of the time actually creating something, we would have 50000 apps.14:44
crashanddie_xDaReaperx, erhm... I don't agree with you there.14:44
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crashanddie_xDaReaperx, you are not entitled to anything by using these forums14:44
crashanddie_And as far as I know,'s policy has always been to not blatantly ignore software piracy -- if there are doubts14:45
xDaReaperxI'm entitled to getting help14:45
crashanddie_no, you're not14:45
crashanddie_you're entitled to diddly squat14:45
alteregoThink I'm going to learn something useful today.14:45
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alteregoHow to write Qt documentation ..14:45
crashanddie_if you have problems with your device, feel free to ask14:45
Termanacrashanddie_ is being blunt about it14:45
TermanaBut he is right14:45
crashanddie_'course I am14:46
TermanaThis is a community. You're not entitled to anything.14:46
xDaReaperxi didn't do anything wrong14:46
TermanaNo one said that14:46
xDaReaperxyou made a statement stating it14:46
xDaReaperxso i thought you did14:46
alteregoSomeone obviously thinks you did something wrong.14:47
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alteregoOR that the post was too dodgy to have on the forum.14:47
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xDaReaperxprobably the admin in this IRC14:47
TermanaI didn't say you did something wrong, I said you're not ENTITLED to help14:47
alteregoI don't think so :P14:47
TermanaAnd if you created a topic that pushed piracy, then yes you did something wrong14:47
TermanaIt's against the forum rules14:47
xDaReaperxit was just a tutorial , i didn't share anything illegal14:48
crashanddie_xDaReaperx, what admin in this IRC?14:48
xDaReaperxnothing ^14:48
xDaReaperxnor did i make that post14:48
crashanddie_that's what I thought, won't even stand for his own thoughts.14:48
TermanaTalk about back peddling.14:49
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TermanaYou didn't just back peddling, you turned the bike around and rode the other way14:49
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DocScrutinizerhey, mooo14:57
DocScrutinizerI missed the fun? :-P14:57
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alteregoOh dear14:59
Termanamorning DocScrutinizer14:59
Termanasure did :p14:59
DocScrutinizermeh, got my own fun with noobs on hostmode :-P15:00
crashanddie_DocScrutinizer, I CAN HAZ PR0N ON N900?15:00
SpeedEvilI was surprised that certain live-streaming websites work just fine on n900.15:01
DocScrutinizer"...but WHY doesn't mount sda1 work?? this is a *normal* memstick with 5 partitions!!"15:01
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DocScrutinizerPaul and me trying to help MohammadAG out of that hell, by posting about hostmode is unrelated to mounting devices at large. Seems it starts to help - slowly but does15:03
FireFlyIs there anyone who knows how open/closed the Ovi Maps API is?15:04
* mgedmin is confused15:04
mgedminisn't hostmode a prerequisite for mounting devices?15:04
DocScrutinizerisn't charging battery as well?15:04
DocScrutinizeror mamanging you bank account so you even can *buy* a device :-P15:05
mgedminso you can't say these things are unrelated ;)15:05
DocScrutinizernevertheless you wouldn't expect your online banking deal with device mounting, would you?15:05
mgedminmaybe "necessary but not sufficient"15:05
mgedminhelp!  I cannot mount a usb flash card on my n900 because I don't have money to buy a n900!  can someone send me one for free?  kthxbye15:06
ieatlintmgedmin: please provide address15:06
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timeless_mbpDocScrutinizer, et al: i'm looking for slide feedback15:10
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Venemohi guys15:13
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Termanatimeless_mbp, my feedback: they are invisible, I can't see nothing15:15
alteregoHey Venemo15:17
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Venemohey alterego :)15:17
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alteregoJust noticed, Maps doesn't even show you your current speed ..15:21
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alteregoMy app is better :P15:22
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Sceltjspeed seems to be nice15:22
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Venemoalterego: released yet?15:23
alterego Of course not :P15:23
alteregoMaybe it'll never be released.15:23
mgedmintoo good to be shared with the world, eh?15:23
alteregoToo large and embarrassing.15:24
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DocScrutinizertimeless: wazzup?15:25
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Venemoalterego: why embarassing?15:28
alteregoBecause the code isn't particularly tidy etc, etc, etc.15:28
Venemoalterego: and why should the end users care about your code being tidy?15:28
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alteregoThey shouldn't, and I don't realy care about end users :P15:31
Venemoalterego: didn't you say you wanna sell this on Ovi Store?15:32
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alteregoNot too sure now.15:33
alteregoI haven't really decided.15:33
alteregoWant to get some input on it first.15:33
Venemoalterego: well... then release it, or show it to some people, or whatever :P15:33
ham5firesheep for maemo?15:33
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Venemoalterego: is it Qt based?15:34
Termanaalterego, what is your application?15:35
Venemoalterego: well then make a Symbian version too and earn a fortune with it15:35
alteregoNothing particularly interesting.15:36
TermanaDon't listen to anything Venemo has to say15:36
alteregoJust a GPS app a bit more like a handheld garmin GPS15:36
TermanaHe is suggesting you sell out! :p15:36
alteregoNo mapping, just the basic navigation tools15:36
alteregoWith a bit of funk and graphical glitz15:37
Venemoalterego: well I know the feeling anyway15:37
Venemoalterego: I also always make something that I never release15:38
Venemoalterego: but at the end I usually regret it, and by the time I actually do something about it, it's too late15:38
alteregoI do quite wanna try it on an N815:38
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munkiiiAnybody in here who know abit about Mobile Hotspot?15:53
steinexi know it works ;)15:55
munkiiiwell it doesn't for me...15:56
Venemodo you guys have an idea why Transmission is not working?15:56
munkiiii've made a post, but had no replies yet. -
RST38hOMG, you have really made a post!15:56
DocScrutinizermunkiii: please don't combine with multiboot!15:56
munkiiiAh, So can NITDroid and Mobile Hotspot not be used together15:57
DocScrutinizerunless you know what you're doing15:57
munkiiiuntil PR1.3, i have been using Mobile Hotspot with Multiboot Kernel-Power without problems15:58
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munkiiiRTFM for what? Mobile Hotspot? If you know of a "Fucking Manual" for Mobile Hotspot, can you point me in that direction?15:59
DocScrutinizermultiboot is a uber-clever_hack/brainfart/hickup >select what meets your taste>. In fact MB is doing quite a number of weird/rogue things and is not exactly easy to manage or update16:00
munkiiiI am asking because before PR1.3, MH worked fine with Multiboot. So i didn't assume it would be Multiboot related.16:01
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munkiiiso again, RTFM for what? Mobile Hotspot? If you know of a "Fucking Manual" for Mobile Hotspot, can you point me in that direction?16:01
DocScrutinizerMB is juggling with kernels by flashing them at boot time. Don't expect a simple installation of a new kernel will play nice with that16:01
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xDaReaperxhow do you reset the SSH password ?16:02
xDaReaperxon the N90016:02
xDaReaperxi dont remember my old password16:02
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DocScrutinizerssh password?16:02
ham5reinstall the server16:02
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DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing16:02
xDaReaperxi dunno16:02
xDaReaperxit asked for entering SSH password16:02
xDaReaperxand username16:02
xDaReaperxwhile installing16:02
andre41so set it?16:03
munkiiithat'll be the Sudo Gainroot needed password i assume16:03
xDaReaperxya had set it when i had installed long back16:03
xDaReaperxbut i forgot it now16:03
DocScrutinizeriirc it asks for *root* password16:03
DocScrutinizerand you're managing passwords with cmd (1) passwd16:04
DocScrutinizersee man passwd16:04
munkiiiAnyway, DocScrutinizer, cheers for your "help", i'll be sure to ask you in the future for help with anything i need. :)16:04
DocScrutinizerprepare for better sarcasm next time. I'm not as pissed as usual today16:05
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DocScrutinizerif the "help" I gve wasn't sufficient to give you a clue where to look for proper setup / help. Then you won't find any better here16:08
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* DocScrutinizer wonders whom to beat up a bit for multiboot :-P16:12
DocScrutinizerdon't care to look it up at dmo16:13
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DocScrutinizercould we get a heuristic on buildhost to check for buzzwords like "flasher" "vmlinuz" "*.bin" "/lib/modules/*" <add others here as see fit>, and then buildhost auto-adds a "WARNING! This package is messing with your system, and to revert you most likely *have* to do a full flashing! Also any SSU will probably break your system"16:18
DocScrutinizerplus pkg is auto-moved to (yet to define) group "user/device-killers"16:19
ieatlintheh, it would be a good idea... along with general package info like "this will access the network stack", "this will access the gps", etc16:20
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alteregoWell, there are always ways around this.16:22
alteregoI think what DocScrutinizer is suggesting is a more informed user warning in the app installer.16:22
alteregoUsing it for security is pointless :)16:22
alteregoGood idea,16:23
ieatlinteh, not entirely16:23
DocScrutinizerthough I'm about to think of yet another solution: a new repo: maemo-killers16:23
crashanddie_djeezus, OOo is such a fucking big pile of shit16:23
DocScrutinizerpkg might get kicked there by public vote, or delibeartely by developer, or by heuristics16:24
ieatlintdetecting access to things like the network stack, or a gps api is definitely detectable... and while it may be possible through some crazy workarounds to beat the detection, it typically is beyond the capability of those who create malware16:24
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alteregoieatlint: no, it's not :P16:25
alteregoNot always16:25
DocScrutinizerieatlint: that's along the andritiot / win7 whatyacallit user management16:25
DocScrutinizerI think it's both useless16:25
alteregoieatlint: no matter what you come up with, it will be trivial to work around if someone was in that kind of mind.16:26
javispedrodon't worry, crap security is coming with harmattan16:26
javispedroand, morning.16:26
alteregoI suggest not bothering to put up walls that will just invite them to break them down and give people a false sense of security.16:26
ieatlintthis is a much more in-depth discussion than i'm currently awake enough, but i'm not all swayed by claims that things like open() can't be monitored16:26
DocScrutinizero/ javispedro16:26
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alteregoieatlint: so you'd deny people access to open? :P16:27
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DocScrutinizerback on topic, my suggestion wasn't about security at all16:27
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HateBreederi am soon n900 user:P16:27
ieatlintno, i'm not saying restrict access16:27
alteregoDocScrutinizer: I know, yes, so, I like your idea :)16:27
HateBreederi have some questions and things what i want know...16:27
infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.16:28
DocScrutinizerwe got WAY TOO many useful apps in -devel16:28
ieatlinti'm saying inform the user at install time that it accesses things like an tcp/ip socket16:28
javispedroieatlint: lol16:28
DocScrutinizerieatlint: *useless*16:28
javispedroieatlint: that's indetectable at build time16:28
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javispedroieatlint: so it would be a "suggestion" at most16:28
alteregoI think that's the point16:29
DocScrutinizerand *useless*16:29
VenemoDocScrutinizer: what's the problem with having useful apps in -devel?16:29
HateBreederi have now samsung galaxy s but in wednesday and what u think about n900? is it slow and buggy?16:29
ieatlintit's not only realistic, it's accomplished and standard practise on symbian and android16:29
ieatlintand several virtualised jail environments on *nix16:29
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DocScrutinizerVenemo: it urges joe dumbuser to enable -devel16:29
javispedroieatlint: the only say way to do any of this is to sandbox16:29
togglesDocScrutinizer: hey, i resemble that remark16:29
VenemoDocScrutinizer: oh, right...16:29
javispedroieatlint: and if you sandbox, why not go java all the way16:29
alteregoAnd we don't have a controllable sandbox :P16:29
DocScrutinizerand get access to things like multiboot, powerkernel, tweakfreq, without distinguishable warning16:30
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well the solution would be to encourage devs to push their stuff to -testing and then Extras16:30
ieatlintjavispedro: i guess i'm in some chastised minority for realizing that anyone can make an app that can broadcast your imsi and gps location to a server :P16:30
alteregoVenemo: some stuff, like uboot, should stay in dev as it's dev apps :P16:30
javispedroieatlint: surpringly, they can also do it on the iphone16:30
JaffaDocScrutinizer: powerkernel made it's way to Extras, and doesn't it conflict with PR1.3?16:30
DocScrutinizerieatlint: and on andridiot it's *USELESS*16:30
HateBreederwhat u say about android on n900, does it works so i can use it?16:30
JaffaVenemo: +116:30
ieatlintjavispedro: you noticed i left that off my short list :)16:30
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javispedroieatlint: but exactly the absence of this filter is partly what makes Maemo Maemo.16:31
* javispedro envisions not being able to install an app because it "opens a socket" (to X11, but a socket...)16:31
* javispedro fears Harmattan..16:32
ieatlintoh please, the socket type is as easy to detect any the open call itself16:32
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HateBreederokay i dont get any help in here and i go back in next week ...16:32
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Venemoalterego, DocScrutinizer: I obviously meant things that are intended for end users16:32
alterego@HateBreeder, thank you, don't come again :D16:33
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alteregoVenemo: yeah, that's not so much what I think we're talking about here.16:33
Venemoalterego: what do you mean?16:33
crashanddie_alterego, damn, I wish i could've banned his ass16:33
Noobmonk3ywb MohammadAG16:33
DocScrutinizerieatlint: please!!! it's mega fooodjsgabkbcq ixb to common user!16:34
alteregocrashanddie_: :)16:34
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ieatlintand perhaps it is what makes maemo maemo... but i'll not be shamed by people shaming me for thinking some basic security on a platform that is woefully open is a bad idea.  it relies on its obscurity to maintain even a semblance of security, and is historically short-sighted16:35
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javispedroalterego: crashanddie_: well, you'll be able to ban him if he comes again "in a week" as he said :)16:35
* crashanddie_ puts a note in his calendar16:35
alteregoVenemo: We're talking about better informing users as to the potential issues of some -devel software.16:35
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javispedroieatlint: we do not rely on obscurity. we rely on the same the iphone does: reviewing.16:36
javispedroieatlint: that's the entire reasoning behind extras QA.16:36
Noobmonk3yalterego: just shoot anyone with crap software... that'll sort it ;)16:36
* Noobmonk3y hides16:36
Venemoalterego: just point them to the wiki article about extras-devel16:36
Venemoalterego: and expand the article16:36
javispedroieatlint: the fact that people prefer non-reviewed -devel applications for some weird reason says something16:36
Shapeshiftermy dad bought a galaxy s. and once again, I'm extraordinarily happy with my n900 by comparison :)16:36
DocScrutinizerieatlint: all studies show that spamming user with "warning!" he doesn't understand gets you *worse* over all security, instead of increasing it16:36
javispedro(other than people are stupid...16:36
Venemoalterego: tell them that software from -devel can and will blow up their N900s16:37
ieatlintjavispedro: don't make me quote you later in saying "we're as good as the iphone when it comes to security" :P16:37
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Shapeshiftern900 has such a crisp screen. and the IM integration is superb (one of the features I really use most)16:37
javispedroieatlint: we're better, our review process is open, we suggest the source code to be open, etc.16:37
DocScrutinizerthis is true for zonealarm, as it is for andidiot install warnings, or for win716:37
DocScrutinizerUAE or what'sit called16:37
ieatlintuh, the build system does not exactly require open code16:38
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javispedroieatlint: free extras devel does.16:38
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ieatlintno, it requires something i can submit the build system to be run through autotools16:39
ieatlinti can include precompiled SOs16:39
javispedroieatlint: has that every passed extras QA?16:39
ieatlinti honestly couldn't say16:39
* javispedro would shot such a thing down16:39
VenemoShapeshifter: agreed :)16:40
DocScrutinizerHELL, why get my nice topics always hijacked16:40
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: sorry :P16:40
ieatlinti'm heading off now, return to your nice topic :)16:40
Noobmonk3ymeyh meh16:40
javispedroDocScrutinizer: because you talk about puppy abortion, so we extrapolate it to the much larger and flammier topic of human abortion ;)16:40
DocScrutinizertelling a joke a second time...16:40
DocScrutinizerso, anybody interested in reading ~30min backscroll and answer to my suggestions/thoughts up there?16:42
DocScrutinizerieatlint: see?16:42
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Jef91Is the package mp-freemantle-002-pr the OS itself?16:43
VenemoDocScrutinizer: you mean this one?16:43
Venemo[15:18] <DocScrutinizer> could we get a heuristic on buildhost to check for buzzwords like "flasher" "vmlinuz" "*.bin" "/lib/modules/*" <add others here as see fit>, and then buildhost auto-adds a "WARNING! This package is messing with your system, and to revert you most likely *have* to do a full flashing! Also any SSU will probably break your system"16:43
Venemoseems to be reasonable16:43
* javispedro personally voted to dump non-GUI packages from user/*16:44
javispedrobut I lost :(16:44
Venemomaybe we should put those things into another repo, called 'extras-dangerous', or something like that16:44
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javispedroI wouldn't do another repository with basically the same semantics as extras-devel16:45
javispedrowhat will happen is that extras-uber-devel will become the new -devel16:45
javispedroyou have plenty of example...16:45
Venemoor extras-CanAndWillBlowUpYourDevice16:45
DocScrutinizer[2010-11-12 15:23:20] <DocScrutinizer> though I'm about to think of yet another solution: a new repo: maemo-killers16:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: sane solution: get packager to add a few warning boxes.16:46
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* javispedro really believes those packages shouldn't be in user/* either way.16:46
javispedrobut if they are, they might as well show some GUI...16:46
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DocScrutinizerwith skull&crossedbones16:47
javispedroget an animated, floating, dancing, bumpy warning 400px warning sign16:47
javispedroall while playing the main theme of "Apocalypse Now"16:47
DocScrutinizersure, all my ideas are easy, that's why they are good ideas :-P16:48
Venemowhen the user adds this repo, pop up a dialog and ask him the question, "Are you ready to let your device be destroyed?"16:48
javispedroVenemo: user will not read message, answer "Yes"16:49
Venemoand only enable it if he types in "Yes, I wanna let my N900 blow up"16:49
* javispedro notes you all should read yesterday's discussion we had on #meego16:49
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javispedrobasically, even Stskeeps started calling them "lemmings".16:49
Venemoor, simply remove these things from the user/* section16:49
DocScrutinizereeeeeek #meego16:49
Venemobasically don't let them be installed from a GUI16:49
* DocScrutinizer remembers the flames h-e-n team got by introducing i2c tools to maemo16:50
DocScrutinizerand the hoops we had to jump to calm down the critics16:51
Venemoif we remove these things from user/*, one would have to use the command line to install them, thus making the entry level higher16:51
javispedrountil someone sets up a "tutorial", that is.16:51
javispedrousually, most tutorials outside are "how to hose your device" tutorials.16:52
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG51: did the build work? or still fighting freenode?16:52
javispedrothis reminds me I should someday push on the topic of internationalized, before N900+1 gets released..16:52
Venemojavispedro: well yeah, until someone does16:53
Venemojavispedro: we should discourage that16:53
Venemojavispedro: I mean, making some "tutorials"16:53
javispedrogood luck with that..16:53
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MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, fighting freenode, I brought down the bouncer somehow16:54
DocScrutinizeronly way to discourage 3rd party howtos is to offer a really good one from beginning16:55
MohammadAGhm, no xnt14 connected, yep, it's dead16:55
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well then let's offer one with the proper warnings16:55
DocScrutinizerVenemo: I don't see how this will help without making installation so "complicated" users will actually bother to *look* at a howto16:56
VenemoDocScrutinizer: honestly, I'm out of ideas16:56
* javispedro suggests reading yesterday's #meego16:57
Venemojavispedro: the one that timeless_mbp said tl;wr?16:57
javispedroVenemo: no, a conversation between Stskeeps, smoku, me, RST38h, ..16:57
Venemojavispedro: oh.16:58
DocScrutinizer#meego is bah, and in some way like tmo.s evil brother from anti-world16:58
Venemojavispedro: maybe you could summarize it for us?16:58
javispedroDocScrutinizer: haha16:58
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: going back to your question16:59
rmrfchik_what the hell
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VenemoDocScrutinizer: hehe16:59
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: no way to fit kernel and uboot together somewhere16:59
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: but i think if i can compress uboot i can replace 2nd stage nolo17:00
DocScrutinizererr, thought that's what is done right now??17:00
Venemonah, I'm off watching SGU17:00
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jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: nah it's read from sd card17:00
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DocScrutinizeruBoot lives at start of kernel mtd partition, together witjh maemo kernel. It boots maemo kernel if it doesn't find any meego kernel on uSD. That's what I've been told17:02
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javispedroah, sorry, you're away.17:03
Venemojavispedro: thx17:03
DocScrutinizerNOLO boots kernel mtd partition, thus chainloading uBoot instead of maemo kernel17:03
javispedroah, sorry, you're not away.17:03
chem|stanother's "!" key is wearing out .... "well, it's too late!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my n900 is stocked to that devilish penguin u boot screen!!!!!!!!!!!!!"17:03
MohammadAGrmrfchik, user/hidden, you can use a custom apt17:03
Venemojavispedro: I look back to IRC every once in a while :)17:03
DocScrutinizerif NOLO would try to chainload uBoot from uSD, we'd not need any uBoot at all - first instance17:04
rmrfchikMohammadAG: how?17:04
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javispedroVenemo: also,
MohammadAGcompiled that in PR1.2 times, but it should work on 1.317:05
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rmrfchikMohammadAG: changelog?17:06
rmrfchikt.m.o thread?17:06
javispedroVenemo: people start sharing experiences from there on17:06
MohammadAGnone, same as stock, changed --configure flags17:06
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MohammadAGrmrfchik, none17:06
MohammadAGrmrfchik,  --disable-block-hidden  Don't block 'user/hidden' packages],17:06
chem|stDocScrutinizer: if nolo had became a proper bootloader we would have had no need for thirdparty workarounds17:07
* chem|st loves conditional sentences17:07
DocScrutinizerchem|st: Cpt.Obvious?17:07
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chem|stDocScrutinizer: yes17:07
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you are right, nolo and stock kernel are on the same partition17:08
DocScrutinizeruBoot and kernel :-)17:08
chem|stDocScrutinizer: just wanted to do a c3 sentence on that topic for fun17:08
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* javispedro still wants to try and fix kexec based multibooting some day17:09
MohammadAGsigh @ non working ke-recv17:09
MohammadAGwhy does maemo have retarded system tools?17:09
javispedromaemo as a distro is a mess17:09
MohammadAGfsck fucks up partitions (segfaults a lot)17:09
MohammadAGbusybox is... meh17:09
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: yeh, *real* development is kinda fun and frustrating same time :-D17:09
javispedroDocScrutinizer: do not do development on maemo17:09
javispedrothere's a reason the other day I had a problem with ETOOMANY partitions17:10
chem|stDocScrutinizer: and with a proper kexec support in desired OSs we would do fine too17:10
javispedroI have a lot of chroots for ex.17:10
javispedrowhen time for "real ondevice development" comes I just chroot on a real distro17:10
* MohammadAG has an SDK chroot17:10
MohammadAGdumped it for an ssh scratchbox17:11
rmrfchikMohammadAG: how app manager installs user/hidden?17:11
MohammadAGrmrfchik, apt-worker17:11
DocScrutinizerred-pill mode :-P17:11
javispedrothe issue here is fennec being in user/hidden17:11
MohammadAGjavispedro, duh :P17:11
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rmrfchiki will download it by habd17:12
MohammadAGwhy the hell did they disable it anyways?17:12
DocScrutinizerwhat a brainfart17:12
* javispedro requests some gas for his flamethrower while poining it at packager of fennec17:12
MohammadAGovi? fuck it17:12
rmrfchiknokia made a lot of insance decisions17:12
MohammadAGovi never worked17:12
MohammadAGnever will17:12
Noobmonk3yMo Mo! What do i need to do to finish this packaging? :| still a bit worried i can't entirely do it myself :|17:12
Noobmonk3ywanna get Kathy testing it17:12
chem|strmrfchik: no...! really?17:12
MohammadAGeven on symbian - while better than Maemo - it fails compared to the apple app store17:13
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, link again, lost it :P17:13
chem|stMohammadAG: free music refuses to download if account balance is ZERO (for some nokia cases)17:14
* javispedro is surprised at the irony of the entire meego-uboot-tmo triangle of doom17:14
Noobmonk3yjavispedro: i'm still laughing that theres 20+ threads created about it, and its quite a simple fix :P17:14
javispedrothey wanted ... meego ... they got ... a PENGUIN!17:14
javispedrosounds like a film name already.17:15
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chem|stNoobmonk3y: and I am tired of merging threads since pr1.217:15
DocScrutinizerB movie17:15
* Noobmonk3y remembers raising an idea about having a single line news brief thing on tmo.. ie "PR1.3 Released - read here" or "Uboot screwing it all up" or "Blaaah blaaaah"17:15
Noobmonk3yi even did a brainstorm17:15
javispedroWaaah Waaah17:15
Noobmonk3ybut as brainstorm isnt used by the masses, no one cared :p17:15
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Noobmonk3ychem|st: can see why :(17:15
javispedroNoobmonk3y: it was quite useful when it was used by the masses, everybody dumped his random shitty ideas there and nobody cared. yay! =)17:16
Noobmonk3ylol ;)17:16
Noobmonk3yreally though - its a developers tool brainstorm, not a community one17:16
chem|stNoobmonk3y: brainstorm failed as the volunteers could nothing do but edit freaking tmo threads (me) and thats why they quit proceeding17:16
Noobmonk3y:) :)17:16
chem|stNoobmonk3y: but mo meeting said we get it all working in 201117:16
javispedro.... it was designed as a community brainstorm17:16
FIQhow did i got HL17:16
Noobmonk3ycreating a thread as a brainstorm and vbote on the thread would make alot more sense17:17
javispedroFIQ: you tell us17:17
Noobmonk3yjavispedro: without thinking how most of the community work17:17
Noobmonk3ymost go on, search, or just post, the information cant be hidden down a maemo back alley, i agree it should have worked, but didnt :p17:17
* javispedro has some experience with how this stuff works...17:17
FIQnow i know why17:17
Noobmonk3ychem|st: oOooo17:18
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer: yes!17:18
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FIQi did a quick multihighlighter to be compatible with nbs-irc, and seems ti failed to exclude "(me)" as an actual word17:18
chem|stNoobmonk3y: yeah the "single" instance was requested month ago just after they split it up, still want to kick-ass those freaks who wanted related tmo threads instead of build in tmo right away17:18
FIQto* have failed*17:18
chem|stFIQ: lol17:19
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: what's your email? I plan to redirect tmoers to you when they start hosing their devices ;)17:20
* DocScrutinizer yawns17:20
chem|stFIQ: and I need to exclude pink and light-green from my nickcolor script...17:20
DocScrutinizerpending to changer to joerg@paypal.com17:21
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xDaReaperxanyone here installed any Preenv games on their eMMC ?17:22
xDaReaperxi mean WebOS *17:22
javispedro/home/user is on the eMMC17:22
javispedroso I think you're asking for "on MyDocs".17:23
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* DocScrutinizer ponders bout "real hackers are amused they get paid for doing things they'd do anyway" and when this started to change to "WTF am I doing this?" for him17:23
javispedroDocScrutinizer: matter of time17:23
javispedroDocScrutinizer: has happened to me few times already...17:24
JaffaDocScrutinizer: When you start working on apps you didn't even know existed.17:24
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DocScrutinizerI guess it started when I realized I never got paid by ``nokia'' and never will17:25
Noobmonk3yAutobuilder question alls!17:25
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javispedrofor me at least it's just that I get tired of nearly anything when I've been doing it for ~ a year.17:25
Noobmonk3yWhy is this .changes file getting rejected, any ideas? -
DocScrutinizeror maybe it started the day I found my fridge empty in the morning17:25
javispedroshitty :(17:25
Noobmonk3yerror = File upload error. You didn't upload a valid .changes file.17:25
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javispedroNoobmonk3y: are you writing .changes files _BY HAND_?17:26
xDaReaperxyes i'm asking for MyDocs17:26
xDaReaperxi installed NFSU on mydocs17:26
xDaReaperxit loads and it crashes when the loading bar comes17:26
javispedrostrace or gdb it.17:27
xDaReaperxhow ?17:27
xDaReaperxwhat command17:27
chem|stwith strace17:27
javispedro"strace" :)17:27
xDaReaperxand then open ?17:27
Noobmonk3yjavispedro: my first attempt at qt packaging, and MohammadAG has done it for me, cos it is a pain in the ass17:27
javispedroNoobmonk3y: but you are writing them BY HAND? O.o17:27
Noobmonk3yyet, the file is accepted when he does it17:27
Noobmonk3ybut not wwhen i do17:27
DocScrutinizerxDaReaperx: strace <appname>17:27
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Noobmonk3yerm, well yeah17:28
Noobmonk3yhow else do you create one?17:28
javispedroNoobmonk3y: do not!17:28
javispedroNoobmonk3y: why you can't run dpkg-buildpackage?17:28
Noobmonk3yi lie - MohammadAG gave it to me17:28
Noobmonk3ythats prob how it was done17:28
xDaReaperxi did strace nfsuc it says not found17:28
MohammadAG51dch :P17:28
chem|stxDaReaperx: strace is in tools repository17:28
MohammadAG51javispedro, cause he's on windows17:28
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javispedroMohammadAG51: shouldn't Madde provide dpkg-* ?17:29
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG: IT WORKED!17:29
MohammadAG51Noobmonk3y, your changelog is fucked up lol17:29
MohammadAG51rewriting it...17:29
MohammadAG51it'll fail on the builder17:29
chem|stbe good ppl17:29
MohammadAG51javispedro, it should, but never used it17:29
DocScrutinizerchrissbx: o/ AYE17:29
xDaReaperxjavispedro: when i try to run NFSU through : preenv ./nfsuc17:29
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xDaReaperxit wont open17:30
xDaReaperxis somethign wrong there ?17:30
DocScrutinizererr chem|st ^^^17:30
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javispedroMohammadAG51: should be slightly more easier than generating the package by hand...17:30
Noobmonk3yoh well17:30
chem|stDocScrutinizer: that was a byebye17:30
javispedroxDaReaperx: preenv doesn't accept command line arguments, it just spawns a shell17:30
xDaReaperxoh ok17:30
DocScrutinizero/ was a :wave:17:30
xDaReaperxNFSU never crashed when it was on /home/user/games17:31
javispedroxDaReaperx: so, when you get to run your game under strace, examine the log and watch for late errors17:31
DocScrutinizeri.e last ~30 lines will show some "ouch, that hurts..." :-D17:32
MohammadAGjavispedro, who generates packages by hand?17:32
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javispedroMohammadAG: well, I thought he was writing a .changes file...17:32
Noobmonk3yjavispedro: i have no idea what i am talking about17:33
DocScrutinizerI did once17:33
Noobmonk3yit's in the name <<--17:33
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer: you are a nutter though17:33
pupnik_have you gotten any corporate interest in preenv javispedro ?17:33
MohammadAGlol DocScrutinizer17:34
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DocScrutinizererr to javispedro17:34
* MohammadAG self explodes his bases17:34
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pupnik_all dwarf fortress needs (apparently) is a little UI work for maemo17:35
kerio"a little"17:35
pupnik_email bomb campaign :)
MohammadAGthe fuck? scp: /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/maecount_0.5.0_source.changes: Permission denied17:35
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MohammadAGsomeone broke the builder... on a friday17:35
pupnik_kerio: you experienced with DF?17:36
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DocScrutinizersomeone messed with tmo stylesheets etc as well, some days ago17:36
kerionope, always wanted to play it, always put off by the bad interface17:36
xDaReaperxi can't find strace17:36
xDaReaperxwhich rep is it in ?17:36
MohammadAGtools/sdk repos17:37
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DocScrutinizer[2010-11-12 16:28:37] <chem|st> xDaReaperx: strace is in tools repository17:37
xDaReaperxokay sorry17:37
MohammadAGX-Fade, I hope you're there17:37
X-FadeMohammadAG: At airport, but yes.17:38
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: beware of printer cartriges17:38
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MohammadAGX-Fade, oh fixed, nevermind :)17:39
MohammadAGX-Fade, safe trip17:39
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, X-Fade and toners, apparently, they can be killers17:39
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, it worked17:39
Noobmonk3yworld peace?17:39
Noobmonk3ytrout farming from thin air?17:39
Noobmonk3yomg it's on it's way to extras devel!17:40
DocScrutinizerworld peace always works in my living room17:40
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DocScrutinizer~trout Noobmonk3y17:41
* infobot slaps Noobmonk3y around a bit with a large trout!17:41
Noobmonk3ythankyou MohammadAG17:41
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MohammadAGyw, just get rid of notepad, please! :P17:42
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: seen my suggestions/weird thoughts about "dangerous" apps and getting some buildhost heuristics?17:42
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Noobmonk3yMohammadAG51: rf -notepad?17:42
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: maybe even a devel-killing repo17:42
* Noobmonk3y will move to ubuntu at some point17:43
BCMMfrom what?17:43
Noobmonk3yhave it on the laptop but hate swapping between the two17:43
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Noobmonk3yand cant remove windows as 2 girls use it atm and it has 2TB of crap on it17:43
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: Yes, but I don't see that happening soon.17:43
* DocScrutinizer neither - LOL17:43
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: For Harmattan that might be something else as the security framework needs to declare capabilities.17:44
BCMMMS Notepad is probably the most impressive example of wilful incompatibility I've seen17:44
lcukNoobmonk3y, "2 girls"   you and your missus?   *grin*17:44
BCMMi mean, how hard is it to support line breaks?17:44
Noobmonk3ylcuk:  ;)17:44
DocScrutinizernuke friggin PITA security framework17:44
DocScrutinizerit's *EVIL*17:44
X-FadeNah, it is not evil. It can be used for evil.17:45
X-FadeIt all comes down to policies.17:45
DocScrutinizerit WILL be used for *E*V*I*L17:45
* javispedro agrees17:45
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X-FadePerhaps, we'll see.17:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: then again, what it will forbide you from doing you probably won't be doing either way17:45
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* MohammadAG images such a repo17:45
MohammadAGI would upload a "You have 0.1s to cancel rm -rf /*, too late muhahahaha"17:46
DocScrutinizerit owns *my* device, and next SSU Nokia owns my device and pr1.3 getting obsolete like cheese in the sun17:46
javispedrowhen are we going to upload a trojan to extras-devel named "2 GHZ OVERCLOCK OMG"17:46
* javispedro will do if people promise not to ban me from here afterwards17:46
MohammadAGjavispedro, no, that's too obvious, it's clearly a fake17:47
javispedroI will also call in the usual "news channels" (slashdot, engadget...)17:47
* MohammadAG uploads a 2.1GHz overclock17:47
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keriojavispedro: why a trojan17:47
DocScrutinizerwith fsckng security framework Nokia is going closed hardware like all andridiot devices are17:47
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kerioupload a 2ghz overclocker to extras-devel17:48
DocScrutinizerwe'll have to deal with shit like jailbreak etc17:48
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DocScrutinizerI *EXPLICITLY FORBID* Nokia to push any cryptoshit sihned locked bootloader to my device. It's MY device - not >theirs<17:49
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: they're not going to push anything to your N900, but, you know, vote with your wallet when the next device comes...17:51
X-FadeWe were promised an open mode, so I'm not too worried.17:51
DocScrutinizerI also doubt Nokia is allowed to publish FOSS under such a "security framework" ownership deprivation policy17:51
* javispedro would be worried because we still don't fully know the limitations of the open mode17:51
javispedroie no ovi store apps at all because of custom kernel? sucks.17:51
X-Fadejavispedro: well, be sure that everything needing drm or copy protection won't work.17:52
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: that's BULLSHIT17:52
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DocScrutinizer"open mode" means you got a device with a nulled ram17:52
javispedroah, I see.17:52
DocScrutinizeropen mode can not run any "secure" app17:52
DocScrutinizerif the whole OS is "secure", then open mode means you're fucked17:53
javispedrowhat's going to be funny,17:53
X-FadeWell, in open mode you can create your own sec policies.17:53
X-FadeSo you can secure your own apps ;)17:53
javispedrois that I'm going to bet that the WebOS, with NO drm, will have more applications in the ovi store =)17:53
javispedros/ovi/palm ;)17:53
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* DocScrutinizer shakes head, deeply saddened, about nobody understands security framework is about DRM, not about security as in app-armor or SE17:54
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: I've said I agree with you.17:55
pupnik_actually i think people understand that nowadays17:55
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: That is not true.17:55
DocScrutinizerthere's ZERO you as a user or FOSS devel will earn from security framework17:55
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: You can make sure no other apps touch your files for example.17:55
BCMM"who's security?"17:55
javispedroX-Fade: is it protecting the system from the applications (app-armor) or is it protecting the applications from the system (aka DRM)?17:56
javispedroX-Fade: from what I read on the wiki, and what you've said, I think: both.17:56
X-Fadejavispedro: Both.17:56
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: BS, I am used to do this with unix permissions and user/group17:56
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X-Fadejavispedro: It can protect files, use secure encrypted storage, get notified about capabilities etc.17:57
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javispedroX-Fade: and provide an API for applications to refuse to boot if the device has been "tampered" with.17:57
javispedroaka IsThisClosedMode()17:57
X-Fadejavispedro: No.17:57
X-Fadejavispedro: It can not start apps then.17:57
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: great, and what of all this can't be done by possix-capabilities and tools like app-armour or linux-SE17:58
X-Fadejavispedro: But once bootloader declares the kernel is signed, it will run.17:58
X-FadeUsing the tpm thing in omap.17:58
javispedroX-Fade: so similar to what I said, it will provide means for applications to refuse to run if in open mode.17:58
X-Fadejavispedro: Yes.17:58
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DocScrutinizerthe only NEW thing of security framework is DRM, and you bet you are deprived of your device when it comes17:58
X-FadeBasically the device as a different device key in open mode.17:59
javispedrowell, this is the DRM part.17:59
javispedroyou might now as well call open mode "developer mode" and call the N9 the "iPhone 5" or the "Pre 3"..18:00
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DocScrutinizersecurity framework IS EVIL, it's the hoofed one18:00
X-FadeBut for software development, they either need to provide some sort of self-signing or make a workable system in open mode.18:00
* alterego is now implementing a Qt based graphing system in a similar vein to rrdtool18:00
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DocScrutinizerangry birds: sorry your system is in open mode, terminating18:01
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X-FadeCan well be, that is not known.18:01
javispedrolooking on the bright side, this might deter users from overclocking ;)18:01
DocScrutinizernetstat: error: no kernel support - secure mode kernel18:01
X-Fadejavispedro: No, in openmode you can run your own kernel.18:02
DocScrutinizergbd? sorry we didn't bother yet to implement it, as it doesn't run on user mode anyway18:02
javispedroX-Fade: but not angry birds.18:02
javispedro(example only)18:02
MaikBHello.  I'm trying to set up sbrsh.  I can issue simple commands like `sbrsh 29999,29999,user ls', but I can't get my scratchbox user dir mounted.  This is my ~/.sbrsh and this is the result I'm getting
javispedroI understand that Rovio might decide to allow for Angry Birds to run in open mode.18:02
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nidOX-Fade: thats his point - theoretically if software wont run in open mode, users wont blindly be opening it to overclock via a 3rd party kernel18:02
X-Fadejavispedro: Well yes, that is why I said it is all up to the policies.18:02
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javispedroand, fortunately, third parties seem to be oblivous to this.18:03
MaikBIt would be nice if  those of you who use sbrsh can have I look. Thx18:03
javispedroat least on the Pre there is a trivial copy protection API that ... no third party uses.18:03
DocScrutinizerthat is why I say all devels of security framework got brainwashed by industry18:03
X-Fadejavispedro: As 99% of customers won't ever run in open mode.18:03
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javispedroX-Fade: I agree. Issue is, the other 1% is on tmo or here ;)18:04
X-Fadejavispedro: Yes. Man I love to play advocate of the devil :)18:04
* javispedro goes communist18:04
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DocScrutinizerX-Fade: sorry, I can't answer to this. My education, you know...18:05
javispedroso, basically, those EVIL capitalist PIGS will RESTRAIN our RIGHT TO PLAY Angry Birds with our OVERCLOCKED KERNELS!!18:05
javispedrocomrades, unite!!18:05
javispedro</ ;) >18:05
Jaffajavispedro: Think of the uptime as you have to reboot18:05
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* javispedro notes that what will happen is that the 30th day after the device is released, someone will crack this and from then one everyone will run the cracked kernel.18:07
mgedmincomrade, how dare you PLAY Angry Birds when EVERYONE knows it IS NOT FREE SOFTWARE !!!!1!1!18:07
tobis87It's even worse, the security framework will not only "secure" apps: "Use of single reference hash list instead of ELF signed binaries and EA has certain advantages. It allows to have protection for scripts and data files, which do not have ELF header."18:07
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DocScrutinizerI promise to start hardware nuking viruses for Nokia NIT with linux based security framework enabled devices18:07
kerioDocScrutinizer: <318:08
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DocScrutinizerto prove security framework is about all but security and to teach Nokia about spirit of FOSS18:08
javispedro... and the noone will talk about it again, making the topic one of those issues that only popup from time to time when talking about extremism...18:08
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kerioDocScrutinizer: it will be easy!18:09
keriojust require the device to be in closed mode using the security api18:09
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DocScrutinizerdoesn't do any further harm as the DRM loving ignorant crowd is moving ahead anyway18:10
dsgugh, fuck DRM. And fuck any developer who insists on it.18:10
tobis87And I even may have helped them, because I found that bug with hw. accel. which surely will be used for that power framework. Btw sidenote the driver is written for omap3630, at least it includes an workaround for that cpu.18:10
mgedminwhy just developers, dsg?18:10
Noobmonk3yhow long is the build process nowadays? (Before getting into extras devel?)18:10
mgedmindrm is usually imposed by ignorant management18:11
DocScrutinizersecurity framework IS linux-SE minus awesomeness plus DRM!18:11
JaffaNoobmonk3y: Build is quite quick. Dunno how quickly the repo gets populated.18:11
javispedrotobis87: imho it is pretty clear by now that n9 has that18:11
Noobmonk3ythanks Jaffa  :)18:11
javispedrotobis87: same as pre218:11
Noobmonk3yit used to me 27 minutes when i was doing healthcheck, just seems a bit slower today :)18:11
javispedroexpect 1 ghz18:11
X-Fadejavispedro: Another nice marketing term :)18:12
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nidOwell that marketing term is getting old now18:12
javispedroyes, virtually no difference. pft.18:12
nidODUAL CORE!11 is where its at now.18:12
* javispedro would prefer a9, with jazelle dbx again :)18:12
X-FadeI want an A1518:13
X-FadeWith Quad 604 gpu.18:13
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mgedminonly don't stuff it into your pockets, so they won't catch on fire18:13
X-FadeSame power footprint.18:14
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: why? to playback DVD on a DRM protected commercial player?18:14
X-FadeNo, on our quad display morphing devices of course :)18:14
javispedroskip the 3D tablet altogether and aim directly for the holograms hype18:15
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mgedminlaser direct-to-eye painting18:15
Venemohi again, guys18:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: which comes with DRM implemented by security-II framework directly into your brain18:15
* mgedmin wonders if he should re-read Snow Crash again18:16
DocScrutinizercourtesy expert lemmings18:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you have to put your brain in Open Mode, comrade!18:16
mgedminwarning: watching pirated content may hurt your eyeballs18:16
tobis87The security framework could also be enforced on the N900 with Meego and an updated official Nolo (which is now discussed in the release team)18:16
javispedrotobis87: Meego has no security framework as of now18:16
DocScrutinizeryes, my point18:16
DocScrutinizertobis87: ^^^18:16
X-Fadetobis87: Sure, N8x0 had that capability too.18:16
X-Fadejavispedro: 1.2 :)18:17
tobis87No, but It will be used any time in the future.18:17
javispedroDocScrutinizer: ARGH! The evil capitalists ARE GOING TO PUSH DRM TO YOUR N900!!18:17
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'd go to bed with capitalists and not touch security fw apologets with a 5 yards pole18:18
* javispedro goes grab aluminum foil18:18
javispedroDocScrutinizer: hehe, I understand, just joking :)18:18
tobis87I also don't like SELinux or Apparmor. Grsecurity is somehow nice, because it includes PaX.18:19
DocScrutinizerHELL, if they at least were paid properly for that shit they do18:19
javispedrothe fact that Nokia seems to be willing to spend the effort to push the security stuff to the N900 worries me18:19
javispedrobecause that means future ovi store will clearly require drm...18:20
X-FadeBut the code is all in the open, you can play with it now.18:20
X-Fademeego-security on gitorious.18:20
VenemoDocScrutinizer: why, they are not paid?18:20
X-FadeIf nobody looks at the code before it ends up in devices, who do we blame :)18:21
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: nuclear device specs are also in the open now - suggest to play with that too?18:21
nidOpoint is though, theyll be wanting ovi drm because commercial developers will want it, and persuading commercial developers that drm isnt a "good idea" isnt helped by incidents such as the rampant piracy of webos games all over tmo the day preenv hit the repos18:21
X-FadeDocScrutinizer: That is a lot less safe.18:21
mgedminwhat sort of drm does android have?18:21
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javispedronidO: I've put it many times that webos does have a trivial copy protection, and no game uses it.18:21
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javispedronidO: case in point, preenv will refuse to run such games.18:22
javispedronidO: no complains about it yet.18:22
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DocScrutinizersorry, I have to take a break not to get too offensive. I guess everybody willing to listen got my point18:22
X-FadeIt is also sad that there is no easy way to legally get these games.18:22
javispedrono, without a pre no.18:22
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X-FadeI would be willing to pay for them, but I can't.18:23
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javispedroand I bet that the situation is not going to improve...18:23
javispedroI'd wish.18:23
Noobmonk3ykhertan_: lol... your next tweet will be "gregjroberts: who are you?" :)18:23
X-FadeYeah, it only serves as an example for piracy now though :(18:23
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DocScrutinizerI paid for my N900 and I AM NOT INTERESTED in somebody locking up next PR with crypto+DRM bullshit, so you can legally pay for OVI crap18:23
Noobmonk3yDocScrutinizer: i actually agree with you...18:24
DocScrutinizercya peeps18:24
* Noobmonk3y washes his mouth out18:24
javispedroX-Fade: yes, and also causes extra work on tmo mods :(18:25
VenemoDocScrutinizer: well if you don't wanna, you could always reflash with an earlier FW without the stuff you don't want18:25
khertan_Noobmonk3y, :)18:25
VenemoDocScrutinizer: but I of course got your point18:25
X-Fadejavispedro: Yeah, it is so cool from a tech pov, but the abuse is the dark side of it.18:25
DocScrutinizerVenemo: try to flash PR1.2 and restore your apps - enjoy MUHAHAHABWAHAHA18:25
javispedroX-Fade: it is also not cool from a tech pov, it was plainly easy......18:25
VenemoDocScrutinizer: :(18:26
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X-FadeIt should give developers an idea that it is viable to develop games for both platforms in one go.18:26
lcukjavispedro, noticing a trend that your apps cause more work for departments.18:26
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khertan_Drm ? where to ?18:27
javispedrolcuk: I guess I should start making themes instead ;)18:27
VenemoDocScrutinizer: but I don't get what the problem with Ovi DRM is. for any commercial developer this it is kind of a blocker not to have one, isn't it?18:27
Noobmonk3yjavispedro: you could make notepad for maemo ;)18:27
BCMMVenemo: yeah, that's exactly why there is no software available for Windows anymore18:27
X-FadeHmm need to go through immigration, let's see. bbl or bbiab ;)18:27
Noobmonk3ylol X-Fade18:28
javispedrocya X-Fade18:28
khertan_why #FF18:28
Noobmonk3yis everyone verging on dublin today?18:28
VenemoBCMM: well, I can understand both standpoints18:28
lcuklol javis18:28
VenemoNoobmonk3y: I wish I could go there, but I can't18:28
Noobmonk3ykhertan_: why not? :) - just cos i read all your tmo blurb etc, doesnt mean i can't #ff you :)18:28
Noobmonk3yVenemo: me too :(18:28
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khertan_Noobmonk3y, hum ... maybe ... just that i didn't understand what it s mean :)18:29
Noobmonk3yFollow firday18:29
Noobmonk3yi dont use it often, but the idea is my followers follow people i put in the #ff tags18:29
Noobmonk3y'follow friday'18:30
khertan_ah ... ok :) this explain the long list of nickname :)18:30
Noobmonk3yie on a friday, people post #ff posts to show other followers decent people to follow :)18:30
Noobmonk3yyup :018:30
Noobmonk3ysearch twitter for #ff you'll see thousands of others18:30
SpeedEvilWhat about indecent people to follow?18:31
SpeedEvilThey're far more fun.18:31
lcuksexy saturday18:31
VenemoNoobmonk3y: just the flight ticket to Dublin and back would cost me almost a month's salary, hehe18:31
VenemoNoobmonk3y: this is the problem with part-time jobs18:31
Noobmonk3yVenemo: i could have driven but cant afford to drive, let alone fly and stay on someones floor atm ;)18:31
Noobmonk3yjust moved with the missus so my monthly free income is about £200 atm! lol - most of that goes on ciggies lol18:32
* ShadowJK screams at ovi maps18:32
VenemoNoobmonk3y: lol18:32
VenemoShadowJK: why is that?18:32
Noobmonk3yShadowJK: when you scream at ovi maps, compare it to screaming in space.....18:32
tobis87DocScrutinizer: Do you really think, they would backport that "security" framework to Maemo for Pr1.4? That would be too much work, Nokia also doesn't backport important driver fixes, e.g. wl12xx power fix.18:33
ShadowJKI search for "Backlandsvägen", and it offers me "Bäcklandintie" and "Mäkitie"18:33
VenemoShadowJK: seems it does not know that location18:34
Venemotobis87: well I don't think there'll be any more PRs after 1.318:34
ShadowJKactually, "Mäkitie" is in the right place18:34
X-FadeHehe, a bit it was :)18:34
ShadowJKit just translated it into another language18:34
ShadowJKjust in case I didn't want to use the local language18:34
javispedrotobis87: only reason I could see that happening is if N900 becomes useless to consumer without it (for ex. if they force current ovi store to have DRM)18:35
TurskiShadowJK: umm, which city?18:35
javispedrotobis87: even then I'd find that unlikely *relief*18:35
tobis87Venemo: Yes, I also think so. If you don't install Meego you won't get the security framework in the future.18:35
VenemoShadowJK: so it is not a bug but a feature?18:35
ShadowJKTurski, it's in the countryside18:36
X-Fadejavispedro: I only see that if they do a consumer version of MeeGo for N900. No other way.18:36
MaikBRegarding my sbrsh problem:  Rather than using `sbrsh --remote' I added a matching user to the N900 (sbrshd was already running at this point) with this commands sequcence: .   The ~/.sbrsh config file is still the same  Unfortunately the error is still the same as well:
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ShadowJKVenemo, yeah except not even people living there know the names in both languages18:36
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VenemoX-Fade: I don't think it is likely to happen18:36
X-FadeVenemo: Me neither :)18:37
GAN900Woo, converted another iPhone user.18:37
VenemoX-Fade: maybe there'll be a community MeeGo for N900, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon18:37
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VenemoGAN900: congrats18:37
javispedroVenemo: there's one already :)18:37
nidOman, the govt is really going overboard on getting rid of the UK's ID card info18:37
DocScrutinizerGAN900: too bad. Meego going to be the worse iOS18:37
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: going back to the thing18:37
GAN900DocScrutinizer, N900.18:37
Venemojavispedro: the one that I've seen on videos is just plain awful...18:38
MaikBhm, I think its an ssh issue18:38
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Venemojavispedro: not worth to replace good old Maemo yet18:38
DocScrutinizerGAN900: isn't maemo declared 'dead' for N900, and everybody recommends devels should move to meego and its security framwork bullshit?18:38
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Venemojavispedro: maybe if we did a MeeGo release with Hildon-Desktop instead of that crappy Handset UX thing18:38
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: i meant that you can't replace nolo with uboot + kernel image because 1st stage bootloader has limits on size18:38
javispedroVenemo: well, I don't see what you'd win18:39
Macermake hildon do portrait :-P18:39
DocScrutinizerI never suggested that18:39
Venemojavispedro: a nice UI18:39
javispedroVenemo: other than a potentially nicer userspace18:39
* Macer hides18:39
sar3this there a easy way to listen to a shoutcast server using a n900 with pr1.3?18:39
DocScrutinizerkacmy question was if we could bundle NOLO and uBoot18:39
javispedroVenemo: I mean by replacing Maemo with Meego.18:39
MaikBDocScrutinizer,  Given that Qt used for development no Maemo, the port to MeeGo should be too hard18:39
javispedroVenemo: while keeping h-d.18:39
X-Fadesar3th: Yes, the mediaplayer.18:40
DocScrutinizerMaikB: completely point-missing18:40
MaikBmeh typos meh18:40
Venemojavispedro: compatibility with MeeGo's rpm repos, but keeping the current (superior) UI18:40
sar3thX-Fade, please elaborate18:40
MaikBDoc, enlighten me18:40
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: my question was if we could bundle NOLO and uBoot18:40
MacerVenemo: cant people do that?18:40
DocScrutinizerMaikB: meego is *EVIL*18:41
VenemoMacer: what do you mean?18:41
Maceri mean... what is stopping you now?18:41
X-Fadesar3th: There are 4 icons in that app, which one would you think?18:41
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: that's a no-go as well, uboot itself is 30% bigger than nolo18:41
VenemoMacer: what's stopping me from what?18:41
javispedrojacekowski: not necessarily on the nolo partition18:41
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: but that can be worked around18:41
javispedro(I Guess)18:41
jacekowskijavispedro: no space left on mtd18:41
X-Fadesar3th: Internet Radio, rings a bell? :)18:41
jacekowskithat would require completly new fiasco image18:41
sar3thbut how do i select the server then?18:41
jacekowskiesspecialy rootfs image18:41
sar3thi.e. add my own one18:41
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X-Fadesar3th: click on the top.18:41
X-Fadesar3th: add radio bookmark.18:42
javispedrojacekowski: tbh I do not know what this discussion is about so I probably shouldn't participate, but current uboot does install a (uboot+stockkernel) bundle in current kernel mtd partition.18:42
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: :nod:18:42
sar3ththen http://server:8000 as url?18:42
sar3thand that ought to work?18:42
X-Fadesar3th: Yes.18:42
MaikBEVIL is a term that is used to scare the simple minded so they follow.18:42
sar3thok, thanks X-Fade18:42
MaikBGood luck with such an approach among developers18:43
sar3thdidn't know it really was that simple >_<18:43
MacerVenemo: putting hiln in meego?18:43
MaikBI didnt work in the past, and it won't work in the future18:43
Macer:) problem with an idea is that it usually dies as one18:43
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lcukDocScrutinizer, on multiple occasions its been mentioned about your harsh OTT descriptions of things, sure we know and understand things aren't always to your satisfaction, but you certainly know how to push the FUD down.18:44
VenemoMacer: well what's stopping me is that there is no reason to do so yet18:44
Macerwhy not?18:44
Macerno working n900 meego yet?18:44
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: so uBoot pkg had to package preinst any actually used kernel with uBoot binary, prior to flashing it. It also should replace/override  the local flasher call to flash a kernel SSU way, by same wrapping-up toolkit invocation18:44
VenemoMacer: because I know of no MeeGo repos that would contain more stuff than the current Maemo repos18:45
norayrwhere are sms messages?18:45
VenemoMacer: so unti MeeGo becomes mainstream, this would be a waste18:45
MacerVenemo: make your own repo18:45
norayri've got an sms from unknown number, minimized it, and it lost after reboot18:45
DocScrutinizerlcuk: ??? mind to get more specific please?18:45
norayri need the history18:45
VenemoMacer: why on earth would I want to do that? :)18:45
norayris it possible to get it in maemo?18:45
MacerVenemo: to kick start it18:45
VenemoMacer: also some basic drivers for the N900 are not okay yet in MeeGo18:45
norayri don't use phone as phone that much so I do not know how to use it18:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: Meego is not evil (currently), Harmattan is ;)18:45
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DocScrutinizerok, granted18:45
Venemojavispedro: yeah, but Harmattan is not MeeGo18:46
MacerVenemo: lol. yeah. the hw is always a problem18:46
Macersame for mer18:46
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Macernokia are hw nazis18:46
DocScrutinizersorry for this lack of precision18:46
VenemoMacer: I believe the guys will get it right sometime18:46
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VenemoMacer: there's been lots of work on it. compare the current status with two months ago18:46
fcrochikGeneralAntilles1: ping18:47
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: but thing is that we can replace nolo with uboot18:47
jacekowskiDocScrutinizer: as long as uboot will be capable of setting up everything18:47
DocScrutinizerjacekowski: we actually can? that'd be SO NICE18:47
* javispedro doesn't think it's that simple18:47
GAN900fcrochik, yeeessss?18:48
norayrshort search in google did not bring any results18:48
Macerdoubt before the n900 is obsolete18:48
DocScrutinizerNo NOLO, No securtity framework conquering my hardware18:48
fcrochikGAN900: it seems that we are going to be on the same plane going to meego...18:48
norayrit is very obvious, but I don't know how to use phone as a phone, so I have no idea where are sms messages inbox18:48
norayrin maemo18:48
lcukfcrochik, #meego for meego chatter18:48
VenemoMacer: anyway, MeeGo is coming along nicely, but its current state is pathetic18:49
fcrochiklcuk: sorry.... but I can't get over with maemo :)18:49
lcukDocScrutinizer, not one person will force you to install anything on your machine.18:49
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lcukfcrochik, sure18:49
pupnik_the evil will come pre-installed? :)18:49
DocScrutinizerlcuk: sure about that? How am I supposed to install any app pkg to my PR1.2 then?18:50
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fcrochikGAN900: have you planned how you are getting to the hotel?18:50
lcukDocScrutinizer, I said, force18:50
lcukits all choice18:50
javispedroDocScrutinizer: don't worry, if a PR update comes with DRM forced I will start mirroring -devel myself =)18:50
lcukif theres nice candy and you want some18:50
DocScrutinizeryeah, nobody can force me to breathe the smog18:50
jacekowskijavispedro: i know how to replace nolo18:50
jacekowskijavispedro: and it's very simple18:50
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: deal18:51
javispedrojacekowski: "replacing" might be, getting it to work...18:51
* lcuk still runs windows XP on my desktop18:51
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* MohammadAG gets out a knife and stabs HAM18:51
jacekowskiwell uboot is doing lot of this stuff anyways18:51
Venemoanyway, what would you guys gain by replacing nolo?18:51
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javispedrojacekowski: but not all of it, I guess.18:51
jacekowskiVenemo: rule the world18:51
MohammadAGVenemo, a more open device18:51
Venemooh... :)18:51
MohammadAGthat's still closed18:52
lcukMohammadAG, I asked in part about this - the install an extra package which does all this does seem the easest?18:52
VenemoMohammadAG: so what's up with HAM? or it is still the usual?18:52
MohammadAGVenemo, SSU issues, you know about them :)18:52
MohammadAGlcuk, we already install 2 packages for the SSU to work, and it doesn't, HAM ignores my packages18:53
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: seems you have to start mirroring *before* they mess up the official repo just another time18:53
jacekowskijavispedro: and that's why i'm waiting for ali1234 to ask some questions about what exactly is supported18:53
jacekowskijavispedro: as i'm not familiar with uboot at all and he done most of work already18:53
VenemoMohammadAG: so the usual18:53
VenemoMohammadAG: why don't you do it like the guy who did the Diablo community SSU did?18:54
X-Fadeok, about time to board. See you all in Dublin :)18:54
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X-FadeWell, some of you :)18:54
MohammadAGon a non related note, thunderbird is awesome18:54
javispedrobon voyage X-Fade18:54
MohammadAGheh, safe trip X-Fade18:54
MohammadAGVenemo, I did, it's not working18:55
norayrhey, ppl18:55
lcukMohammadAG, eek18:55
crashanddie_Is he nuts? No, he's insane.18:55
MohammadAG Venemo18:55
norayrit's really not hard, anybody who use maemo as a phone know where is it, it's so obvious: where are sms inbox?18:55
VenemoMohammadAG: ouch18:55
MohammadAGMenu -> Conversations18:55
crashanddie_norayr, conversations18:56
norayrfor unknown numbers, not address book contacts18:56
Venemonorayr: go to the application menu, then launch the Conversations app18:56
norayrthanks :)18:56
norayrfound it18:56
Venemonorayr: all of your SMS and IM conversations will be there18:56
norayri didn't use maemo as phone18:56
Venemonorayr: no problem18:56
MohammadAGs/will/should :P18:56
Venemonorayr: you're welcome18:56
DocScrutinizernorayr: took me some days as well until I finally run nto it18:57
MohammadAGthunderbird's downloading 2747/274618:57
MohammadAGI thought only windows failed there? :)18:57
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: Consider if a new message arrives when downloading.18:58
norayrDocScrutinizer: :)18:58
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, no messages arrived :)18:58
DocScrutinizeron a related note: stopwatch app offers seconds selection list 0..58 :-P18:58
MohammadAGlol, it just did18:59
MohammadAG(an email)18:59
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pupnik_stopwatch, the new 'hello world'19:01
DocScrutinizeryep :-D19:01
Venemopupnik_: no, the new hello world is making a blog engine19:02
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DocScrutinizer'hello worl' in this case19:02
DocScrutinizerI'm so happy I got no dog :-P19:03
Venemolol :D19:04
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javispedrolol is true.19:07
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javispedroI've also made a blogging engine...19:07
javispedrotime ago.19:08
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* mgedmin is tempted to write one19:08
lcukVenemo, it used to be that kids would write a media player as their hello world.19:08
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Venemolcuk :)19:08
javispedrolcuk: on VB, definitely (mci ;) )19:08
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javispedrolcuk: (I at least did it)19:09
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alteregoI thought the new Hello, World was Kon' nichi wah19:09
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MohammadAGswype is kinda awesome19:11
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MohammadAGyou need some time to get used to it, but after that it's very quick to use19:12
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VenemoMohammadAG: on the N900?19:21
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: (mediaplayer) now I got it where maemo mediaplayer comes from :-P19:22
alteregoRight, got loads to do, see you all later folks.19:23
MohammadAGcya alterego19:23
* MohammadAG sets ban on alterego*!*@*19:23
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VenemoMohammadAG: you have an N8?19:24
MohammadAGit's not exactly mine, but yes, it's in the house :P19:24
alteregoSomething is very broken ..19:24
alteregoBut I can't fix it now :(19:25
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Venemoalterego: what is broken?19:25
VenemoMohammadAG: is it any good?19:25
pupnik_is qt mobile as bloated as kde used to feel on slower PCs?19:26
MohammadAGVenemo, yeah, it's way better than symbian^119:26
pupnik_like, ridiculous delays when clicking on things...19:26
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Venemopupnik_: not really19:26
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VenemoMohammadAG: compared to Maemo 5?19:27
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alteregoNot as good as m519:27
MohammadAGthe UI is smoother, a lot smoother19:27
pupnik_Venemo: if it were my choice, i'd reserve a budget for a 'lag hit squad'19:27
MohammadAGthe functionality otoh...19:27
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pupnik_and espectially as things run down to crunch time, they'd have some limited override ability to blast through cruft and deliver a speedy UX19:28
VenemoMohammadAG: otoh=?19:28
MohammadAG~wtf otoh19:28
infobotOTOH: on the other hand19:28
MaikBsbrsh again: I solved the mounting issues by moving /opt/scratchbox to /scratchbox.  Now another problem appears: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-119:28
MaikBsbrsh server: Can't open a pseudo-tty (No such file or directory)19:28
SpeedEvilpupnik: and lag bounties.19:28
MaikBanybody seen this before?19:28
SpeedEvilpupnik: reduce time of X by Y, get Z19:29
VenemoMohammadAG: so you thing that N8's UI is better than M5, but functionality is worse?19:29
MohammadAGMaikB, does the file exist?19:29
MaikB[sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > ls /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-119:29
MohammadAGVenemo, it's smoother than the iPhone19:29
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MohammadAGI still like M5's UI more, but it's laggy19:29
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Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, still not in extras-devel :|19:29
MaikBMohammadAG, btw: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh ls19:29
MaikBsbrsh server: Can't open a pseudo-tty (No such file or directory)19:29
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VenemoMohammadAG: mhm19:30
MaikBsomething odd is going on19:30
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, poke X-Fade, or fire an RPG that delivers a message to his plane then goes back to earth19:30
Noobmonk3ylol good point, he is on a plane ;)19:30
Noobmonk3yX-Fade: on a plane still? ;) hehe19:30
alteregoOkay, really going now :P19:31
alteregoCiao :D19:31
Venemobye alterego19:31
* MohammadAG sets another ban on alterego*!*@*19:31
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, someones app 'shoplist' is already published, and was pushed through over an hour after ours, meh19:31
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* Noobmonk3y goes on the warpath19:32
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, send a message on the mailing lists :)19:32
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VenemoNoobmonk3y: what are you talking about?19:32
Noobmonk3ymeh, will go get pissed instead19:32
* MohammadAG takes away Noobmonk3y's bacon19:32
Noobmonk3yVenemo: Just waiting for to get into extras devel19:32
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG you evil evil man19:32
lcukMohammadAG, there are laws against that.19:33
MohammadAGlcuk, sue me, muhahaha19:33
VenemoNoobmonk3y: maecount? a new app of yours? :)19:33
Noobmonk3yVenemo: loooooooong story!!!
* lcuk tells Susan over MohammadAG 19:33
Noobmonk3ylcuk: thank you19:33
* MohammadAG burns bacon then sends a live video to Noobmonk3y and lcuk19:33
Noobmonk3ycan't beleive the cheek tbh19:33
Venemolol MohammadAG19:34
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, burning bacon is fine ;)19:34
lcukburning bacon just acts as a signal19:34
* MohammadAG tortures Noobmonk3y by feeding the bacon to his cat19:34
* lcuk puts the cat in the smokehouse for a week19:34
pupnik_one could make a pork-chop case for the n900 - out of meat19:34
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG, harsh! my cat died 6 years ago!19:34
lcukand then proceeds to eat that instead19:34
pupnik_mmm smoked cat19:34
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, his = mine19:34
VenemoNoobmonk3y: what would this app do?19:35
* MohammadAG gives Noobmonk3y his cat19:35
lcukNoobmonk3y, is your app 64bit compliant?19:35
Noobmonk3yVenemo: it counts 4 counters, that can reset at different points :P19:35
MohammadAGno, it's Y2K complaint19:35
Noobmonk3ylcuk: no19:35
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Noobmonk3yVenemo: ie, knitting patterns19:35
lcukNoobmonk3y, what happens if I want to count over 4294967295 ?19:36
lcukie a BIG sweater.19:36
Noobmonk3ylcuk: limited to 999 on each atm19:36
VenemoNoobmonk3y: mhm.19:36
Noobmonk3yyou wouldnt luck, the pattern wouldnt need that mean, as it is repetetive19:36
VenemoNoobmonk3y: will try it next time I knit19:36
Noobmonk3yunless you are covering the moon maybe19:36
Noobmonk3yVenemo: never knitted in my life, which is why i cant test it19:37
Noobmonk3ybut took 1 hour to make lol19:37
VenemoNoobmonk3y: :)19:37
Noobmonk3yand then 3 days to finally get Mo to package it lol19:37
VenemoNoobmonk3y: I did knitting when I was a kid... it was a creative thing to do19:37
Noobmonk3ylcuk: as you are clever, fancy making a tool that walks users through packaging? ;)19:37
Noobmonk3yVenemo: Now there is the internet and porn, no more knitting :P19:37
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VenemoNoobmonk3y: lol19:38
lcukNoobmonk3y, packging is cross platform problem , discussions and stuff are already ongoing about just how to make qt handle it properly19:38
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MohammadAGuse the same packaging system, easy19:38
Noobmonk3yi hear the new qt creator may have something to helop19:38
VenemoNoobmonk3y: at the first time, it took me 3 days and 10 failed attempts to get to extras-devel19:39
Noobmonk3yeven a sensible html guide would help :P19:39
MohammadAGunfortunately, meego isn't helping there19:39
Noobmonk3yor a linux backend website to walk people through?19:39
* Noobmonk3y hugs khertan_ and py2deb etc, was alot easier in python ;)19:39
Noobmonk3yjust thinking with a webkit (website etc) - go through each file, then ask for specifics, put them in folders, and end up with 3 files?19:39
lcukMohammadAG, deb rpm sis installshield wise pdw msi mac* .tar.gz .......19:39
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG51: sounds doable though?19:40
MohammadAGlcuk, thanks for listing them :P19:40
Noobmonk3yMohammadAG51: ?19:40
MohammadAGyou forgot ipk19:40
lcukMohammadAG, deb rpm sis installshield wise pdw msi mac* .tar.gz ipk .......19:40
lcukbut you get the idea19:40
MohammadAGiPhone PacKage I think19:40
Noobmonk3ythats what the palm games use19:41
MohammadAGand iPhones19:41
MohammadAGthat sounds wrong19:41
MohammadAGlike iT... k, nevermind19:41
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MaikBodd, I started sbrshd from an terminal at the device and it works now19:43
MaikBthis is, the error message doesn't appear19:43
MaikBhoweve, the gtk app won't start19:43
Noobmonk3ydefinitley something up with devel today though19:43
Noobmonk3yreally shouldnt take 2+ hours19:43
Noobmonk3yX-Fade: can you remotely give extras-devel/packager a kick up the ass from 30,000 feet? ;)19:44
MohammadAGNoobmonk3y, it's in devel19:44
Noobmonk3ycant see it on my device :|19:45
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Noobmonk3ycan anyone see maecount in extras devel? (Education)19:46
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MaikBevidently my new user account isn't allowed to start X apps19:59
jacekowskiit is20:00
jacekowskijust not allowed to connect to X server20:00
jacekowskixserver by default accepts only connections from user that started it20:00
MaikBthe X server is started by `user' rather than root?20:01
iDontNoobmonk3y: # apt-get install maecount --dry-run does find the package after apt-get update (extras-devel enabled)20:01
SpeedEvilMost of the user-interface is run as user20:02
MaikBhm, I added another users because I couldn't get my scratchbox home folder to mount properly20:02
MaikBbut the root of the problem was something different20:02
MaikBmaybe I'll give sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user another shot20:03
MaikBcancel the maybe20:03
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SpeedEvilErr - I'm talking about the actual device20:04
iDontNoobmonk3y: and it shows up in HAM (Educational), as expected :)20:04
MaikBSpeedEvil: I do as well20:04
MaikBsbrsh is supposed to run binaries on the actual device20:04
* Noobmonk3y goes hunting20:08
Noobmonk3ythanks iDont20:08
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pythercan I set a password for my local user?20:09
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Noobmonk3yi still can't see it20:10
Noobmonk3ywtf is up with my device (and yes, checked it is enabled!)20:10
Noobmonk3ypyther: yes20:10
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jacekowskiis it?20:10
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pytherhow can I regenerate the sudo file?20:13
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Noobmonk3ydisabled, re-enabled extras-devel, meh still not there?20:19
Noobmonk3yis there a way to reset the catalogues?20:19
Noobmonk3yon the device i mean20:19
pupnik_the ubiquitous Dneary weighs-in
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Noobmonk3yok tis not just me20:27
Noobmonk3ykathy can't refresh the catalogues either20:27
iDontNoobmonk3y: apt-get update is working fine here20:28
Noobmonk3ytrying again!20:29
Noobmonk3ynope didnt work20:30
Noobmonk3ymeh meh meh20:30
MaikBFor the sake of debugging I try to start conboy rather than an app compiled on my desktop.  As expected. `sbrsh conboy' does nothing, since it will start the process as something different than the user `user'20:31
MaikBbut: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~] > sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user conboy20:31
MaikBStarting conboy, Version
MaikBand nothing happen on the device20:31
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MaikBno xhost on the n90020:37
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pytheris there a picture viewer that can simply load pictures from a directory?20:38
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crashanddie_going home for the weekend. Later all20:40
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iDontpyther: I use geeqie for this, it compiles nicely without any dependencies in Scratchbox/is available in Easy Debian.20:43
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pytheriDont: thanks, looks like it might work20:44
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iDontpyther: you can configure the layout of the app under edit -> preferences -> configure this window. The default configuration isn't veru usefull for small screens ;)20:46
iDont*very useful20:47
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pythergah I can't remember the password to my virtualbox debian install20:49
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sivangjavispedro: hey20:59
sivangjavispedro: there?20:59
javispedrosivang: yep20:59
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sivangjavispedro: great, I tried to answer you on the ML and CC'd you as well re: windowActivateEvent21:00
sivangjavispedro: now, in you email, you told me about nokia keeping closed dead simple stuff21:00
sivangjavispedro: is there a specific example we can provide at the talk? (I'm preparing slides)21:00
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sivangjavispedro: also if you can find the link to last nights hectice IRC chat with Dawn that would be great :)21:01
sivangjavispedro: sorry for bugging, though21:01
sivangjavispedro: I'm doing this and preparing for travel at the same time :p21:01
sivanglast minute packing, etc21:01
javispedrosivang: you mean ?21:02
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sivangjavispedro: great, so you refer me to the issue that is in public accaptance testing and is till a private bug :)21:06
sivangjavispedro: is that it? this is fine, just making sure21:06
javispedrosivang: uh?21:07
* javispedro doesn't understand, my brain is somewhere else atm 21:07
sivangjavispedro: so in your email, yousaid that dead simple stuff that are obvious to bne open should be open, did you have a specific example?21:08
sivangjavispedro: this is a very god point, I am trying to find a specific exmaple21:09
sivangand even good point21:09
javispedrowell, I'm personally thinking of all the user applications :)21:09
javispedroor bme21:09
sivangjavispedro: like the address book?21:09
javispedrosivang: yep, for example21:09
sivangjavispedro: okay, thanks this is much more clear now21:10
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sivangjavispedro: modest is not fos or is it?21:10
javispedroor the specifications of what xprot does, or ...21:10
sivangjavispedro: I mean, the Maemo one21:10
javispedrosivang: modest is oss21:11
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sivangwich was the app mohammedag wanted to add turning support and couldn't due to it being closed?21:11
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sivangjavispedro: what's xport? (X protocl?)21:12
javispedrosivang: no, xprot. a filter that "protects speakers" implemented as a closed pulseaudio plugin21:12
MaikB[sbrsh] Did anybody here successfully run a graphical application on a N900 via sbrsh??21:12
RST38hjavispedro, Mohammad,moo21:12
bibounefr  hello  I am French, I have a big problem with the kernel 45, can not reflash.  can you help  me?21:13
javispedrosivang: you might also want to ping Stskeeps, he knows better than me the entire list of closed stuff, and also what he need to pull for Meego21:13
bibounefrwith version 45. nothing does not flash.21:13
bibounefrafter having run the flasher,, plug  the N900 while holding the u key on, the phone shows the nokia logo with the usb  on the top right, but this one direct to reboot the little penguin ...21:13
bibounefrI do  not know what to do, I do not know either if my battery is charging (no orange  LED on or on a wall or on USB)21:13
bibounefrthank you for your help21:13
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javispedrohello RST38h21:14
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jacekowskiMaikB: which way are you going21:17
bibounefr  person  did the same problem?21:17
jacekowskiMaikB: app running on n900 connecting to display on PC21:17
jacekowskiMaikB: or what21:18
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: anything particular to highlight me?21:18
jacekowskiMaikB: and are you exporting DISPLAY variable21:18
javispedroDocScrutinizer: because I remember you once talking about how simple the n900-bme must be and ranted about reasoning not to publish it. is that true?21:18
MaikBjacekowski: I try to start an app inside scratchbox and want it to run on the device21:19
MaikBjacekowski:  sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user conboy DISPLAY=
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: mostly21:19
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I said crappy and full of cruft - I guess. No 'simple'21:19
sivangi see21:20
MaikBjacekowski: I decided to use conboy to test if I can get any X-app running21:20
jacekowskiMaikB: wrong21:20
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jacekowskitry hmm21:21
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jacekowski sbrsh -r 29999,29999,user bash -c "DISPLAY= conboy"21:22
GAN900RST38h, you not coming to the conference?21:22
MaikBjacekowski: same result21:22
bibounefrplease ?21:23
jacekowskiwhat do you get as error21:23
MaikBthe debug log of sbrshd says: return code 121:24
MaikBempty stdout21:24
MaikBjacekowski: thats the output inside scratchbox:
pupnik_20,000 goblins21:25
MaikBjacekowski: the ~/.sbrsh
jacekowskistupid me21:26
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jacekowskisbrsh -r 29999,29999,user bash -c "DISPLAY=:0 conboy"21:26
chrissbxDocScrutinizer: you pinged me 4h ago? "chrissbx: o/ AYE"21:27
DocScrutinizersorry ETAB21:27
chrissbxaha. np21:27
MaikBjacekowski: I'm getting more output:
MaikBjacekowski: but I have an simple gtk around21:28
MaikBI gonna test it now21:28
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jacekowskiMaikB: anything on screen?21:28
MaikBjacekowski: no21:28
jacekowskion a phone21:28
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MaikBjacekowski: the simple gtk app runs21:29
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MaikBjacekowski: thx a ton21:29
jacekowskii rule21:29
MaikBthe dbus error is another issue21:29
MaikByou do21:29
MaikBjacekowski: I guess the dbus error is related to the sandboxing that sbrsh does by default21:32
MaikBbut I'm happy for now21:32
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MaikBsbrsh sh -c "DISPLAY=:0 /home/maik/dev/gtk_helloworld-1"21:35
MaikBworks as well21:35
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MaikBusing DISPLAY=:0 and wrapping the whole command with sh -c does the trick21:36
MaikBI made a note21:36
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bibounefrpanic kernel  please ?21:47
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BCMMa friend said she saw a Tux and scrolling text (sounded like a typical Linux framebuffer bootup) on her n900. why would that have happened?21:59
BCMM(it then played the Hands video and started normally)22:00
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DocScrutinizeror power/moh kernel, both titan and MohammadAG like to enable fb (and make the device go thru 5 reboots every now and then :-P)22:02
DocScrutinizeractually early pre-alpha hostmode kernels had fb boot console22:03
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sivangjavispedro: could you think a problem in open sourcing the application manager?22:05
sivangjavispedro: or why one would not want to do so?22:06
javispedroit is open22:06
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trumeeis there any app in repo which lets youtube search based on date?22:07
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trumeeI want to watch few episodes of Merlin, but Mediabox search comes out with a random mix.22:08
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trumeeWhy doesnt PageUp in xtem give the command history?22:11
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* Aranel_ looking for someone kind enough to give me his /usr/lib/ 22:23
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DassuIsn't there any sftp client for n900 with a gui?22:26
DassuThis is really hard to google because of the noise caused my sftp->n900 threads22:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I hate the framebugger, it caused me lots of problems22:27
sivangjavispedro: you mean h-a-m is open?22:27
sivangjavispedro: oh :o22:27
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DocScrutinizertrumee: maybe shell's keymapping isn't correct for history on page-up?22:29
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DocScrutinizerafter all that's not an xterm feature22:30
trumeeDocScrutinizer: i do have the correct .inputrc but it is not being read by bash22:31
javispedrosivang: yes22:31
trumeeDocScrutinizer: my .inputrc has "\e[5~":history-search-backward22:32
trumeeand "\e[6~":history-search-forward22:32
lcuktrumee, it normally does, but frustratingly, it doesnt save to disk if oyu close with the [X]22:33
* MohammadAG wants gnome-terminal22:33
MohammadAGat least I can paste with kb shortcuts22:33
trumeelcuk:i think "trap exit SIGHUP" might be required in .profile to fix that22:33
RST38hMohammad:the toolbar in maemo xterm can be customized just not easily22:34
trumeeBut no Page Up/Down doesnt give any command history at all in a terminal22:34
sivangjavispedro: k, but addrssbook is a very good example22:34
sivangis Buteo open source?22:34
RST38hMohammad: So, you can improve things, a little bit22:34
lcuktrumee, its not an issue normally, the commands I use most are stored because I remembered to ctrl D and ctrl D my way out22:34
DocScrutinizertrumee: are you sure .inputrc doesn't need explicit 'soucing' or whatever, in one of the other standard .profile files?22:34
MohammadAGRST38h, gconf, I know22:34
MohammadAGI just want kb shortcuts :|22:35
javispedrosivang: Buteo?22:35
trumeeDocScrutinizer: hmm. wasnt aware that .inputrc needs to be sourced in .prfile22:35
sivangjavispedro: syncml framework in meego22:35
sivangjavispedro: seem sos22:36
javispedrosivang: oh, no idea, never used it...22:36
* sivang curses latency22:36
trumeeInteresting thing is there exists a /etc/inputrc as well22:36
sivangjavispedro: wow22:38
sivangjavispedro: rad22:38
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MohammadAGjavispedro, ~openness :)22:38
javispedro~tell javispedro about openness22:39
sivangsorry for caps22:39
javispedroah, interesting.22:39
MohammadAGnever seen that (~tell)22:39
sivangat east I think backup framework is going to be open in meego if not alrady is22:39
MohammadAG~tell MohammadAG about life22:39
sivangerr, backup framework! the app nees to be popen22:39
javispedrosivang: yes, it's improved :)22:39
sivangpopen is something else22:40
sivangjavispedro: is the backup program opene?22:40
sivangnoot "the framework"22:40
javispedroon Maemo, nope. on Meego, I think there's no app for now =)22:40
javispedrobut the general openess is improving with Meego.22:40
javispedrothe list of closed packages on the n900 image is basically: bme, 3d drivers, and some pulseaudio plugins.22:41
javispedro*meego n900 image22:41
sivangalso hildon-desktop22:41
javispedroh-d is open :)22:41
sivangah, cool22:41
sivangappeared not so in 1.1.22:41
MohammadAGhd has always been open22:41
RST38hMeego has no hildon-desktop,no?22:42
MohammadAGRST38h, ha, it has no gtk to work on22:42
javispedroseems that some parts of h-d were closed O.o22:42
lcukno required parts of HD were closed22:42
jarkkommost of that closed source stuff is pretty common sense, like 3rd party hardware interface or exchange sync etc, but why "Applications/browser-ui" ?22:42
lcukafaik thats the additional settings/config things22:42
javispedrojarkkom: that's the point, there are some small things that make no sense to keep closed22:43
* RST38h is also not sure why the skin-deep browser-ui is closed22:43
lcukHD is certainly buildable and usable on other things22:43
* MohammadAG had it on his laptop22:43
jarkkomjavispedro, though I suspect it might've been outsourced development that Nokia doesn't actually own fully22:43
javispedrosivang: jarkkom: add in the file manager, which is basically a shim wrapper to the libhildonfm API (foss), and even then it's closed.22:43
jarkkomit has happened before22:43
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RST38hjavis: ah, screwthe file manager22:43
DocScrutinizer~tell MohammadAG about query22:44
RST38hjavis: but I sorely miss browser-ui sources22:44
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MohammadAGRST38h, right, you're here :)22:44
MohammadAGhow do I compile xchat?22:44
MohammadAGI keep getting errors22:44
RST38hMohammad: the usual22:44
RST38hMohammad: make22:44
RST38hwhat errors?22:44
MohammadAGRST38h, libtool22:45
lcukMohammadAG, are you building for meego?22:45
MohammadAGnope, I'm trying to fix the damn icon22:45
trumeeDocScrutinizer: source /home/user/.inputrc returns "-sh: /home/user/.inputrc: line 3: \e[5~:history-search-backward: not found"22:45
RST38hah that one22:45
lcukthen your SB sounds borkened?22:45
RST38hI spent hours trying to fix it22:45
MohammadAGmake[5]: Entering directory `/home/mohammad/xchat/xchat-2.8.6/src/common/dbus'22:46
MohammadAG/bin/sh ../../../libtool --mode=execute /usr/bin/glib-genmarshal  --header --body marshallers.list > marshallers.h22:46
MohammadAG../../../libtool: ../../../libtool: No such file or directory22:46
sivangjavispedro: thanks, that's the best case study I've been looking to22:46
MohammadAGlcuk, can't be, tried 4 different installs22:46
sivangjavispedro: you need to get credits22:46
RST38hMohammad: sb2 -eR apt-get install libtool22:46
DocScrutinizertrumee: mhm22:46
javispedrosivang: naa :)22:46
sivangand the rest here, I have to include something22:46
lcukMohammadAG, but it builds in the autobuilder and on RST38h's system ?22:46
javispedrosivang: hope you find more feedback elsewhere too :)22:46
RST38hI think he just need toinstall damn libtool22:46
MohammadAGlibtool is already the newest version. RST38h22:46
lcukahhh RST38h you use sb2?22:46
RST38hlcuk: yes22:46
sivangjavispedro: same, kindof disappointed of the lack of interest of the ml thread, but it truely shows the current states of affairs22:47
RST38hMohammad: I can reboot to Linux and verify, if you wish. It will take 5 minutes, ok?22:47
MohammadAGsure :)22:48
lcuksivang, which study, where is link to the ML thing22:48
lcukI unsubscribed from a load of lists recently22:48
Firzen|2hi I am newbie to Maemo and I have a problem with installation of Maemo SDK22:48
MohammadAGlcuk, I'm using dpkg-buildpackage, so build deps should be installed22:48
lcukMohammadAG, dpkg-buildpackage does not automagically install the deps?22:48
MohammadAGit doesn't, but it never continues without them22:49
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MohammadAGI think I know22:49
RST38hOk, I am in Linux22:50
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MohammadAGRST38h, I think libtool's path is wrong22:50
MohammadAGit's looking for it in /home22:50
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laasonenHow can I disable updation of specific package in maemo?22:51
MohammadAGlcuk, I'm using dpkg-buildpackage, so build deps should be installed22:52
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Firzen|2please I see that mostly of you installed Maemo SDK successfully... I only want to get working tools, without them I cant't write anything for Maemo :-/22:53
MohammadAGwe can't help if we don't know your problem :)22:54
lcukMohammadAG, "apt-get build-dep xchat_or_whateveritis" is the way to install them if you got source from the repo (usually simplest method)22:54
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MohammadAGlcuk, yep, I know about that, I have all deps22:54
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Firzen|2MohammadAG: ok I know :-)  I've downloaded virtual image from here:
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sivanglcuk: a filemanager being closed even though it is using libhildinfm, which is open22:55
Firzen|2MohammadAG: and a followed simple installation steps in "Installation" folder link22:56
sivanglcuk: my email to the mls about trying ot mak a differnece, only attila , javispedroresponded on the mls, you actually helped through IRC22:56
* sivang goes for a break22:56
RST38hMohammad: resolved it?22:56
lcuksivang, how many layers of abstraction are required before an open source app can have closed source ui capped ontop in yourbook?22:56
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Firzen|2MohammadAG: but at step 4: Installation of Nokia binaries it writes this error:22:57
MohammadAGRST38h, nope22:57
RST38hok, I am just refreshing some missing packages at the moment, wait22:57
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sivanglcuk: EPARSE22:57
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Firzen|2MohammadAG: sb-conf: No such target: FREMANTLE_ARMEL, sbrsh-conf: No current target, Something is wrong with Scratchbox, exiting.22:58
sivanglcuk: I'm tired, and no native speaker :)22:58
trumeeah, it is fixed now. Turned out bash-setup did not change by shell to /bin/bash. Instead it was still /bin/sh. Once i switch on /bin/bash, .inputrc is being read22:58
Firzen|2and I haven't found any solution of this problem.. :-/22:58
sivanglcuk: plesae excuse , but if you elaborate I will read the backlog, have to do a brak22:58
lcuksivang, well, the linux kernel is open source, but obviously a great many closed source apps exist on top.  how many layers do you think are needed between the open engine and the closed ui?22:58
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trumeeRobot101: Regarding open-sourcing vox-mobile, they plan to do that in the future. The dev from Vox wrote this to me in email "Oh, re: the open sourcing, yeah I imagine that is something we will be doing at some point in the not-too-distant future."22:59
MohammadAGRST38h, fixed it22:59
valdynlcuk: your question makes no sense with "open source"23:00
MohammadAGRST38h, added this line to debian/rules, but I can't see why it's needed23:00
MohammadAG# Build the main XChat package23:00
MohammadAGln -s `which libtool` ./libtool23:00
MohammadAGit should just find the libtool from $PATH23:00
valdynlcuk: as "open source" does not specify the actual license23:00
Robot101trumee: it's not a choice - it's a derived work of telepathy-sofiasip of which I am one of the authors23:00
valdynlcuk: and as you can see at mac os x there does not need to be any "layer" in between23:01
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Robot101they currently have no right to distribute this code *at all* because they are not compliant with the license23:01
sivanglcuk: none?23:01
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Robot101I'm assuming this is ignorance rather than malice, so I sent them a polite e-mail yesterday23:01
sivanglcuk: I have a closed binary, using an opene source api interface23:02
sivanglcuk: how many of those do I need? :)23:02
Robot101but if they don't reply soon, they will get a less polite message from Collabora's lawyer23:02
trumeeRobot101: Well you need to remind this to them then. But it is strange that Nokia *officially* endorses since it is on Ovi store.23:02
Robot101and then if they fail to reply, probably a DMCA takedown request23:02
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Robot101oh cool, we can have it removed from the Ovi store too - it infringes Nokia's rights too23:02
Robot101but, really, I don't want to be an asshole - its probably just an honest mistake23:03
sivanglcuk: the closed source ui is linked against the open source api, that's it. if the lib is lgpl no isse?23:03
Robot101so that's my initial assumption23:03
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sivanglcuk: am I missing something?23:03
sivanglcuk: the closed ui does t change anything in the lib, so no sources need to be given back23:03
* sivang goes to take a break :)23:04
lcukno sivand that answers the ponderment doesn't it?   so no issue23:04
Robot101I'd far rather have the source than a lawsuit23:04
trumeeRobot101: Nokia doesnt provide MWI support. Atleast this app does, it will be a big shame if this app gets killed.23:04
Robot101trumee: I want their source so I can merge it to tp-sofiasip - then the next devices will have MWI too!23:04
sivanglcuk: yes, it does :)23:04
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trumeeRobot101: ++ for that.23:04
Robot101I was just like, oh thats cool, how do they do it, and I downloaded to take a look23:05
trumeeRobot101: Hopefully it will be on its way soon as the dev said.23:05
Robot101and it's our shit, and they didn't give the source, so I e-mailed23:05
sivanglcuk: so the conclusion here they just wanted it to be closed? that's it? :)23:05
RST38hMohammad: still here?23:06
Firzen|2MohammadAG: how you've installed your SDK?23:06
lcuksivang, i dont know I havent read historical docs on it23:06
infobothmm... maemosdk is
sivanglcuk: okay, nm23:06
RST38hMohammad: Please cd to xchat root dir and type sb2 dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b23:07
RST38hMohammad: this should build the package23:07
MohammadAGRST38h, I already pointed out the problem, I was doing that23:07
MohammadAGbut it's looking for libtool in ./23:07
MohammadAGnot for the one in $PATH23:07
MohammadAGln -s `which libtool` ./libtool23:08
MohammadAGfixed it ^23:08
RST38hhm, weird23:08
MohammadAGattempt #1 to fix, failed23:09
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jacekowskii hate u-boot23:10
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jacekowskililo ftw23:11
* RST38h finds it funny how FreeBSD's boot manager has no name, takes just one disk block, and manages to work23:11
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jacekowskililo did that23:13
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RST38hnot really23:13
jacekowskiwindows bootloader used to do that23:13
RST38hlilo never worked on any of 3 laptops I had23:13
valdynjacekowski: the dos boot loader, not the windows boot loader23:13
* Aranel_ looking for someone kind enough to give me his /usr/lib/ 23:13
jacekowskiwell, i'm talking old school23:13
jacekowskiwhere windows was booting from dos23:14
jacekowskinot NT stuff23:14
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crashanddiehaha, dunno who here posted me on WWP, but nice :)23:16
crashanddieAnd as someone said, OP is a tool :D23:17
RST38hMohammad: ok, it builds for me just fine23:18
MohammadAGcrashanddie, worms world party?23:18
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MohammadAGRST38h, built fine for me after I did that, couldn't get the icon to work (yet)23:18
crashanddiewhyweprotest, chanology/anonymous lair23:18
RST38hMohamadAG: Damn GTK+ appears to have the icon stuff broken23:19
crashanddiemohammadag: I made a joke-threat pretending that we'd unleashed anonymous on scientology, and that nokia should fear our wrath should they disappoint any further23:19
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crashanddieapparently, some anonfag took me seriously :D23:20
MohammadAGRST38h, well, I got a binary that makes those messages the hildon way23:20
crashanddieMohammadAG: watching the CoD end credits scroll by23:20
MohammadAGinterested in a source, maybe you can fix something up?23:21
crashanddie~seen orlok23:21
infobotorlok <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 16h 16m 56s ago, saying: 'all the socked anons/channers are turning up'.23:21
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RST38hMohammad: Where is it supposed to go?23:24
crashanddieLMAO MohammadAG23:24
MohammadAGcrashanddie, you scare me sometimes23:25
crashanddieMohammadAG: after the end credits, there's an easter egg :D Fidel Castro, Kennedy and some idiots from the white house are together in a bunker23:25
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crashanddiesuddenly, something breaks a window... ZOMBIES23:25
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jacktherippernewer power kernels don't work with multiboot ?23:25
* MohammadAG doesn't get why tryearch likes zombies23:25
GAN900MohammadAG, popular with gamers.23:26
GAN900Because it's the only good idea they've ever had23:26
MohammadAGGAN900, I'm a gamer, I hate zombie games23:27
GAN900Otherwise they're just bad at implementing Infinity Ward's ideas.23:27
GAN900MohammadAG, Left4Dead?23:27
crashanddieGAN900: the last view is a complete ripoff from left4daed23:27
MohammadAGGAN900, never played it23:28
GAN900MohammadAG, ah, well then.23:29
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Robot101trumee: FYI,
GAN900Robot101, coming to the conference?23:31
MohammadAGRST38h, fixed it23:31
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MohammadAGlol crashanddie23:32
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RST38hMohammad: Send in a patch? =)23:33
trumeeRobot101: well said23:33
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trumeeRobot101: How did you get the email address?23:34
Robot101GAN900: we're gold sponsors :)23:34
MohammadAGRST38h, :)23:34
Robot101trumee: packagers@ bounced, it's from the debian package23:35
GAN900Robot101, yes, but are you coming. :P23:35
Robot101GAN900: yes23:35
Robot101GAN900: we've got like 10 people or something23:35
trumeeRobot101: coz, i hope somebody reads that.23:35
GAN900robink, see ?23:35
Robot101trumee: well info@ is on their webpage23:35
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trumeeRobot101: ok cool.23:36
Firzen|2anyone who knows this error?..
Firzen|2I know what is message saying but i23:38
Firzen|2*I don't know how to do it..23:38
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MohammadAGRST38h, :)23:41
MohammadAGyou can ignore the first hunk if it builds fine for you23:41
Robot101trumee: are you in touch with them via e-mail?23:41
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trumeeRobot101: yes, i had contact with one of the devs23:41
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Robot101trumee: can you give me an address?23:43
trumeeRobot101: Phil D'Amore <>23:43
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trumeeRobot101: He sometimes hangs out in #freeswitch as ptdamore.23:44
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GAN900Watching 4-year-olds competently use Blackberries makes me feel old.23:52
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SpeedEvil isn't bad either, reading it23:54
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piggzis there a nice (working) facebook client available for n900?23:57
w00t_GAN900: are you coming btw?23:59
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w00t_if so I'll see you there (along with Rob :-))23:59

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