IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2010-10-17

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pupnik	do you have a keg of beer in the trunk with a feeder line to the sunvisor?	00:08
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ColdFyre	no	00:11
ColdFyre	but .. http://cfdigital.com/cpc2.jpg	00:11
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ColdFyre	http://cfdigital.com/cpc3.jpg	00:11
ColdFyre	it's not too dangerous	00:11
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steinex	ColdFyre: cool.	00:12
steinex	but.. fedora? :p	00:12
ColdFyre	yes :)	00:12
joga	one person at work had some sort of custom steering wheel thingy where he could mount a phone and type while holding the wheel, I didn't see it though	00:13
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ColdFyre	it was gentoo, but it was way too much of a PITA to compile everything on an atom cpu	00:13
steinex	i imagine	00:14
steinex	back in the days(TM) i touched nothing but FreeBSD, now i'm on Ubuntu :p	00:14
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steinex	but well, for servers, the above statement still applies	00:14
ColdFyre	i used to use ubuntu, but i grew to dislike it	00:14
ColdFyre	i should better document my car pc	00:16
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Wizzup	Hi. My /home/ seems to be Read only. Which means /opt is also read only... I can't think of any other reason for this to happen than an unsafe USB disconnect	00:33
Wizzup	However, I rebooted a few times and that doesn't help	00:34
Wizzup	In mount it doesn't show as ro	00:34
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Wizzup	So it's not the MyDocs that's ro, just /home/	00:38
Wizzup	/ isn't ro either	00:38
Wizzup	So I'm completely lost reallly	00:38
Wizzup	I can create a file in /, but not in /home/	00:38
kerio	Wizzup: MyDocs is another partition	00:40
kerio	it makes sense	00:40
kerio	reflashan time!	00:40
Wizzup	I understand it makes sense I can write to MyDocs, but / and /home are the same mount	00:41
Wizzup	o wait. That's not true	00:41
lardman	night chaps	00:43
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logisist	can anyone make me feel better about having the a7 model rather than the a8?	01:42
logisist	considering I just bought it, and at a premium since I didn't want to wait for it to ship\	01:42
logisist	it's not very logical.	01:42
* SpeedEvil forgets a7->a8		01:43
GAN900	a7?	01:43
SpeedEvil	A7 has buzz-fiz applied	01:44
ShadowJK	What the hell is a7?	01:44
logisist	ARMv7	01:44
SpeedEvil	rev a7 of freeruner	01:44
peb_	Logisist --> Audia A7 ??	01:44
SpeedEvil	logist - also - #openmoko	01:44
ShadowJK	wtf	01:44
logisist	NokiaN900	01:44
ShadowJK	Cortex A8 = ArmV7	01:44
logisist	oh	01:44
logisist	:)	01:44
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: there's never been a real A8 :-)	01:45
SpeedEvil	logisist: err - sorry - I was assuming you were meaning rfreerunner.	01:45
ShadowJK	N900 is Omap3, which includes a Cortex A8 core, Cortex A8 is ArmV7	01:45
SpeedEvil	yeah - I was about to say that.	01:45
peb_	Logisist: software rules ... so don't care so much about the nitty-gritty differences in these processors ....	01:45
ShadowJK	There's just one CPU model in N900..	01:46
* DocScrutinizer points to the A5-A7 part in http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/schematics/GTA02/Schematics_Freerunner-GTA02_A5-A7cumulative_public_RC0.pdf		01:46
ShadowJK	The guy bought N900 not freerunner :P	01:47
SpeedEvil	Where is rthe revisions of the n900 found?	01:47
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SpeedEvil	I mean - exposed to users.	01:47
ShadowJK	lol	01:48
DocScrutinizer	osso-product-info?	01:48
SpeedEvil	anyone have a revision other than 2101 in cat /proc/cpuinfo?	01:48
DocScrutinizer	or proc/cpuinfo	01:48
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* nox- 2204		01:49
DocScrutinizer	o.O	01:49
SpeedEvil	nox-: how recently purchased?	01:50
peb_	speedevil, I've 2014 as the revision ..	01:50
peb_	sorry ... 2104	01:50
nox-	i also didnt notice the usb plug going in `too difficult'	01:50
nox-	SpeedEvil, few monts ago	01:50
SpeedEvil	Interesting.	01:51
nox-	months even	01:51
SpeedEvil	I haven't seen that problem - with rev 2101	01:51
nox-	guess i was lucky :)	01:51
DocScrutinizer	nox-: I had that usb problem with my first one for a few weeks, the second one was ok from beginning. Both 2101	01:54
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nox-	oh	01:55
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user___	is there a date for a stable release of meego?	03:45
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jacekowski	never	03:52
lcuk	RIP Beniot Mandelbrot, you were awesome.	03:54
nox-	:(	03:54
lcuk	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIlwFpz9s_I	03:56
joga	also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO9ugnn8DbE	03:57
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FauxFaux	More like http://vimeo.com/1908224	03:58
FauxFaux	Actually, I'm not even sure that's my favourite.	03:58
lcuk	I remember my first time seeing mandelbrot set.	03:59
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lcuk	it took 24 hours to render a single black and white frame on my zx spectrum	03:59
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lcuk	i can render it in realtime on my n810	03:59
lcuk	computers are awesome	03:59
nox-	heh /me did that too	03:59
nox-	(fractals on spectrum :)	04:00
lcuk	i wrote a mandel zoom algorithm that fit inside the 256byte cache o nthe 680ec20 on the amiga o_O	04:00
nox-	:)	04:01
* lcuk wishes that hard drive still existed :)		04:01
lcuk	( context, on my n810: http://liqbase.net/liqbase_testfeatures.AVI )	04:02
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* DocScrutinizer rendered on a M70 Siemens process controller engine ('realtime' BS-2000 spinoff) and printed to a needle impact printer, tool some 40h iirc, for one page		04:37
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DocScrutinizer	http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html 16 bit CPU operating at 37,5 MHz	04:45
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FauxFaux	CoX OS? WANT.	04:45
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newbie007	hi could someone tell me where firefox (default browser) downloaded a file? according to the browsers file dialog its at /Nokia N900/Documents	05:16
newbie007	i really dont like it when save dialogs or open dialog obscure the real path	05:17
newbie007	got it ~MyDocs/.documents/<here>	05:20
DocScrutinizer	newbie007: ooh, I just had to learn "users do not like to bother about pathnames and directories" (quote Nokia guy)	05:21
newbie007	next question is how can i unzip?	05:21
newbie007	but in this os perhaps we can assume the users have a certain level of skill	05:22
DocScrutinizer	anyway, as even Nokia wasn't able to create a filesystem completely without pathnames, they decided to translate ~user/MyDocs to "N900", and the dir .documents in there to "Documents"	05:22
DocScrutinizer	I'm surprised you're not happy with this X-P	05:22
newbie007	X-P ?	05:23
DocScrutinizer	emoticon	05:23
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newbie007	i think i might make a virtual link	05:23
newbie007	symbolic link	05:24
DocScrutinizer	err, symlinks don't work there as it's VFAT (another concession to make your life easier :-P )	05:24
newbie007	ha	05:24
newbie007	its fine this is still the best phone ever	05:25
DocScrutinizer	for unzip I suggest you might want to install package mc (midnight commander) and maybe also unzip	05:25
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newbie007	mc is a file system browser?	05:26
DocScrutinizer	yes	05:26
DocScrutinizer	like norton commander	05:26
newbie007	i dont think there is a package unzip	05:26
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DocScrutinizer	probably not in Hildon Application Manager	05:27
newbie007	i would apt-get it but it seems i limited to only one command prompt (using irssi)	05:27
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DocScrutinizer	you'll need to install it from xterm via "apt-get install"	05:27
lcuk	http://maemo.org/packages/view/unzip-fm/	05:27
newbie007	ok thanks i'll brb then	05:28
DocScrutinizer	:-)	05:28
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DocScrutinizer	moin raster	05:33
n900user	I'm newbie007	05:34
DocScrutinizer	hey :-)	05:34
DocScrutinizer	you can have multiple xterms!	05:34
DocScrutinizer	there's a 'new' button in xterms menu	05:34
n900user	I'm using pidgin now	05:35
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n900user	Oh good to know	05:35
DocScrutinizer	:-)	05:35
tarpdocks	does anyone know if there is a /dev interface for the n900 microphone?	05:35
tarpdocks	like	05:35
tarpdocks	im trying to play a file over a phonecall but am finding it impossible	05:35
DocScrutinizer	tarpdocks: nope	05:35
n900user	Do i want fremantel or diablo? Using n900 vanilla install	05:36
DocScrutinizer	not really	05:36
raster	DocScrutinizer: doc!	05:36
DocScrutinizer	n900user: fremantle for N900	05:36
n900user	Thanks again	05:36
DocScrutinizer	np	05:36
tarpdocks	theres no way to redirect sound input from the microphone?	05:36
DocScrutinizer	you'll need something like gstreamer	05:37
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n900user	Sorry i386 or armel?	05:37
DocScrutinizer	armel	05:37
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paulynsamantha	hi all	05:38
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paulynsamantha	sorry to bother but does anyone know the output of the stock Nokia N900 wall charger?	05:40
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peb_	paulynsamantha DC 5.0V/1200mA	05:43
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logisist	any way to back up your conversations?	05:44
logisist	I have an N900 w/ Maemo	05:44
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DocScrutinizer	dunno, backup app might do that	05:45
logisist	oh, I see the backup software just takes care of that for me	05:45
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n900user	DocScrutinizer sorry do i need to add a repo? I cant seem to find unzip except here http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/unzip/6.0-1maemo1/	05:46
DocScrutinizer	paulynsamantha: the output alone isn't all to know about the Nokia charger. It also has a relatively 'new' signalling about it being a charger: the datalines D+ and D- are shortcircuit	05:47
paulynsamantha	OMG i need to buy the stock one	05:47
paulynsamantha	ive been using a random one	05:47
n900user	It's not standard usb?	05:47
paulynsamantha	thanks so much, Doc do u remeber me from before	05:48
paulynsamantha	n900user: yes but i used kinda rigged up one because i needed more output	05:49
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n900user	More output? You mean amps? Voltage?	05:50
paulynsamantha	amps?	05:50
DocScrutinizer	n900user: maybe you like to have a short glance at http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	05:50
DocScrutinizer	paulynsamantha: sorry, can't recall. Anyway more output won't help anything as N900 takes a max of 1050mA for charging	05:51
jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: do you never sleep? :)	05:52
DocScrutinizer	jpinx-eeepc: sleep is overrated	05:52
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jpinx-eeepc	yea - well...	05:52
paulynsamantha	hey did yous know that the gnuetella fire sharing client Phex works almost perfectly on N900	05:52
DocScrutinizer	jpinx-eeepc: and I heard people die while sleeping	05:52
n900user	I dont really want dev or test repos but i do want unzip. Should i click the link?	05:53
DocScrutinizer	you could click the .deb link in N900 microB browser, this should start HAM and install the pkg iirc	05:54
DocScrutinizer	no real need to enable the extras-devel repo, but I guess sooner or later you'll end with configuring that repo anyway, and just keep it disabled usually	05:55
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n900user	Orry i dont understand HAM or iirc	05:56
n900user	like the Doom!! Message.. Ok I'll give it a shot	05:59
n900user	Thx!	05:59
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jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: why disabled?	06:01
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DocScrutinizer	HAM=Hildon_App_Manager,	06:03
DocScrutinizer	~iirc	06:03
infobot	somebody said iirc was "if I recall correctly"	06:03
paulynsamantha	is n900 no longer on NokiaUSA Store online i cant find it lol looking for charger	06:04
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DocScrutinizer	jpinx-eeepc: you might want to keep versions of packages at extras-repo level usually, not at bleeding edge extras-devel repo	06:04
n900user	I've got dependancy issues now :(	06:05
n900user	# apt-get install unzip	06:05
n900user	Reading package lists... Done	06:05
n900user	Building dependency tree	06:05
n900user	Reading state information... Done	06:05
n900user	You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:	06:05
n900user	The following packages have unmet dependencies:	06:05
n900user	python-pygame: Depends: libsdl-ttf2.0 (>= 2.0.9) but it is not going to be installed	06:05
n900user	E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).	06:05
jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: not sure what I've installed from there..	06:05
* jpinx-eeepc shoots n900user		06:06
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ebzzry_	Is there a way to reread the file rx-51 without rebooting?	06:08
pupnik	what is in that file	06:09
ebzzry_	keymap	06:09
pupnik	cat rx-51 would read it	06:09
ebzzry_	keymaps*	06:09
pupnik	oh yes,	06:10
pupnik	enjoy breaking that and reflashing :)	06:10
n900user	Help: http://pastebin.com/SBwFuAyd	06:10
pupnik	hi n900user	06:10
ebzzry_	Gah.	06:10
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n900user	Hi pupnik	06:11
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pupnik	n900user: Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages	06:12
DocScrutinizer	n900user: hmm, I know libsdl threw errors for quite a while now	06:12
n900user	Pupnik just tried same error	06:12
n900user	Will pastebin...	06:13
pupnik	your first pastebin actually should have enough info for anyone with a device	06:13
pupnik	usually i fix that by removing the broken package	06:13
pupnik	oh i just LOVE the treatment SDL has received since 2007 here DocScrutinizer	06:14
DocScrutinizer	nfc what it is at all	06:14
dcaruana	anyone install moc on maemo5 N900?	06:14
pupnik	http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showthread.php?p=812131#post812131 <<< n900user	06:15
pupnik	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=777400 << n900user	06:15
n900user	http://pastebin.com/RDGit9m0	06:15
dcaruana	thx	06:15
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n900user	Should i remove the repo... ?	06:16
DocScrutinizer	disabling is sufficient, but won't change the problem here	06:17
n900user	Ell it didnt melt	06:17
n900user	*Well it didnt melt	06:17
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DocScrutinizer	friggin libsdl pkg is broken or sth	06:19
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pupnik	the explanation is in my second link	06:19
DocScrutinizer	pupnik suggested removing python-pygame	06:19
DocScrutinizer	aiui	06:20
pupnik	no	06:20
pupnik	dpkg --force-all -r libsdl-ttf2.0-0	06:20
pupnik	apt-get install -f	06:20
pupnik	that's what i suggested	06:20
pupnik	sorry if that was unclear	06:21
pupnik	< pupnik> usually i fix that by removing the broken package	06:21
pupnik	< DocScrutinizer> nfc what it is at all	06:21
pupnik	yup...	06:21
n900user	That doesn't look to safe	06:22
pupnik	http://newbiedoc.sourceforge.net/system/apt-get-intro.html	06:22
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logisist	any mobile Maemo users here running Pidgin?	06:23
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pupnik	the extras-devel libsdl-ttf2 is inconsistent with the official nokia one, n900user ... if you want to use the newer one from -devel, you have to first remove the one from nokia and then do a install -f	06:25
n900user	Logisist i be	06:25
logisist	interesting, I had an issue installing it	06:25
logisist	conflicting packages	06:25
logisist	I hate when I see "Ssl"	06:26
pupnik	well i googled libsdl-ttf and maemo and the threads were in the first few hits	06:26
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pupnik	maybe you could try that next time	06:26
pupnik	www.google.com	06:26
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n900user	How can i disable a package?	06:28
n900user	I mean repo	06:28
pupnik	application manager lets you	06:29
pupnik	or edit the sources.list file(s)	06:29
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DocScrutinizer	click menu in HAM, catalogs, click on catalog, checkmarh [x]disabled	06:43
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TermanaN900	good morning	06:44
DocScrutinizer	good moaning TermanaN900	06:45
DocScrutinizer	~libdsl is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=777400	06:46
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	06:46
logisist	man this is the best phone ever	06:46
logisist	:D	06:46
DocScrutinizer	bah	06:46
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DocScrutinizer	logisist: yep	06:47
DocScrutinizer	~libsdl	06:47
infobot	well, libsdl is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=777400	06:47
TermanaN900	DocScrutinizer, quick pm?	06:47
logisist	hopefully after I update Maemo I'll be able to use Pidgin	06:47
DocScrutinizer	go ahead	06:47
logisist	hoping for more organization in my buddy list	06:48
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raster	god damn	06:59
raster	why did my n900 decide to cease charging on any usb stuff except its own wall-plug thing only?	06:59
* raster kicks his n900		06:59
paulynsamantha	i want an n810	07:04
raster	u'd have to likely get one 2nd hand	07:04
raster	or if someone is sitting on old unsold stock...	07:04
raster	or just get an n900	07:05
raster	which is probably a much better bet	07:05
paulynsamantha	i have n900	07:05
paulynsamantha	i want n810 cause of the like thumbpad thing	07:06
pupnik	not many people are fans of it	07:07
paulynsamantha	ah really?	07:07
DocScrutinizer	raster: it never did	07:07
raster	DocScrutinizer: eh?	07:08
raster	DocScrutinizer: it has done so ever since	07:08
raster	just plug it into pc with us cable	07:08
DocScrutinizer	raster: for proper charging it needs either ENUM from host, or a short from D+ to D-	07:08
raster	it charges	07:08
raster	it decided to stop doing that all of a sudden	07:08
DocScrutinizer	on host it should, yes	07:08
raster	my galaxy-s charges like a charm on the same usb plug	07:09
DocScrutinizer	hmm	07:09
raster	n900 used to	07:09
DocScrutinizer	USB works, for data purposes?	07:09
DocScrutinizer	device shows up on lsusb?	07:09
raster	for weeks its been sitting on my desk keeping powered	07:09
raster	and the screen on 24x7	07:09
paulynsamantha	ya when i plug in my ca-101 for n900 into any usb port it always says insuffiant power not charging	07:10
paulynsamantha	or soething like that	07:10
DocScrutinizer	also strange	07:10
paulynsamantha	i know	07:10
DocScrutinizer	usually 'insufficient power' means it's consuming more power than can be delivered by charging though	07:11
DocScrutinizer	which is a problem of sw running and subsystems activated	07:11
paulynsamantha	ya but its does that when its idle?	07:12
DocScrutinizer	e.g 3G TX needs a friggin lot of power, so the max 500mA from host might not be sufficient	07:12
DocScrutinizer	quite obviously it isn't idle	07:12
DocScrutinizer	how long will it operate from batery?	07:12
paulynsamantha	i almost always have like the wifi disabled and 2.5g to save battery life	07:13
paulynsamantha	i have to charge it multiple times a day	07:14
DocScrutinizer	raster: might be a defect cable or usb receptacle (N900 usb receptacle is a known flimsy part)	07:14
DocScrutinizer	paulynsamantha: see?	07:14
DocScrutinizer	something is eating lots of power - probably 2.5G data transfer	07:15
paulynsamantha	its always internet not connected	07:15
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paulynsamantha	i think i have a retarded BL-5J	07:16
DocScrutinizer	I'm absolutely sure you have a misconfigured system	07:16
paulynsamantha	i think i might flash it	07:16
paulynsamantha	reflash^^	07:16
DocScrutinizer	good start to tackle it	07:17
raster	DocScrutinizer ok. something bizaRRE	07:17
raster	oops	07:17
raster	something bizartre	07:17
raster	usb hub is a powered one	07:17
raster	so everythnig except the n900 worked and charged	07:17
DocScrutinizer	check charging and battery life before restoring previously saved apps and configs	07:17
raster	but somehow the usb hub this hub was plugged into decied to stop communicating	07:17
DocScrutinizer	hehe	07:18
raster	(yes hub plugged into hub plugged into pc - all hubs are powered tho)	07:18
raster	everything BUt the n900 charged and worked with no usb data conn	07:18
raster	n900 bar4fed	07:18
jpinx-eeepc	usb networking is generally flaky - I use it a lot and unplu/replug is a lottery	07:18
DocScrutinizer	cheap hubs won't manage the 'powered' property correctly for ENUM	07:18
DocScrutinizer	raster: sure, N900 is more pedantic about that	07:19
DocScrutinizer	the other devices basically are buggy when charging in such a situation	07:19
raster	but they work	07:19
jpinx-eeepc	using a hub just makes things more flaky ;)	07:19
raster	unlike the n900	07:19
raster	:)	07:19
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raster	jpinx-eeepc: not practical considering how far it is to get to the usb plugs on the pc	07:20
raster	2 at the front and 6 at the back	07:20
DocScrutinizer	raster: yes, they 'work' just like the USB-fan with no cpu or electronics inside	07:20
jpinx-eeepc	raster: use a back one	07:20
raster	the pc is 1.5m away at the end of the bench	07:20
jpinx-eeepc	raster: get a longer usb cable ;)	07:20
raster	thats why u got the powered hubs to make sure i have enough juice to keep most things happy	07:20
DocScrutinizer	raster: check lsusb, it will tell you how much the hub negotiated with N900 for VBUS	07:21
raster	jpinx-eeepc: no thnaks. got to omany bloody cables	07:21
jpinx-eeepc	heh - yea - such is life ;)	07:21
DocScrutinizer	it's not N900's fault other devices don't care about that USB spec and possibly break the host or hub by drawing "excessive" current	07:21
raster	i am so keen ont he day my entire desk is just one big wireless charging pad	07:22
raster	DocScrutinizer: hub with only n900 plugged in	07:22
jpinx-eeepc	raster: just don't put your head in that wireless loop ;)	07:22
raster	hub has a 2000ma 5w supply	07:22
rtyler	evening folks :D	07:22
jpinx-eeepc	raster: really - hubs are a pita for the n900	07:22
jpinx-eeepc	rtyler: o/	07:23
DocScrutinizer	raster: a hub that doesn't know about its own external power is supposed to limit current to 100mA for each of its 4 downstream ports	07:23
DocScrutinizer	lsusb will tell you in verbatim	07:23
DocScrutinizer	so if the hub doesn't tell host about "I got my own power" then host will ENUM N900 for max VBUS of 100mA	07:24
jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: I've had some shocking hubs;) Binned them all	07:24
DocScrutinizer	raster: 4*100mA for downstream + 100mA for powering hub = 500mA which happens to be max VBUS from host, according to USB spec	07:25
DocScrutinizer	N900 is following this spec, and limits charging to a 100mA in your situation	07:26
raster	beats the crap out of me which hub it is	07:26
raster	http://slexy.org/view/s20mPJymxa	07:27
rtyler	any of you chaps hacking atop Maemo5?	07:28
jpinx-eeepc	I suppose if you really research the spec and buy a top-quality hub it'll do ok for the n900	07:28
DocScrutinizer	raster: lsusb -v ;-)	07:28
DocScrutinizer	don't redirect to printer :-P	07:29
raster	i know	07:29
raster	but "which one" :)	07:29
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DocScrutinizer	raster: http://paste.debian.net/96775/	07:32
DocScrutinizer	raster: watch out for changing product-id!	07:33
raster	oh u meant check for the n900	07:33
raster	not the hub?	07:33
raster	MaxPower 500mA	07:35
raster	same	07:35
raster	well now it is	07:35
DocScrutinizer	err, you can check every device, but yes I've been talking about enum result for N900 like MaxPower 500mA #28 in my pastebin	07:35
raster	i thought u meant check to see what the usb hub says power-wise	07:35
raster	:)	07:35
raster	thats why is aid "beats me.. i have a fuck0-tonne of hubs listed"	07:36
DocScrutinizer	:nod: - odds are more than half of them are internal hubs of your host	07:36
raster	maybe	07:37
raster	maybe not	07:37
raster	i have a 10 port hub	07:37
raster	and a card reader with 3 more usb ports plugged into that	07:38
DocScrutinizer	which is actually like 3 or 4 logical hubs in itself :-)	07:38
raster	and another 4 port powered hub plugged into the 10 port	07:38
raster	and my monitor has a usb hub too	07:38
raster	with 4 ports	07:38
raster	and card reader	07:38
raster	and yup- that doesnt include any possible internal hubs on the motherboard	07:38
raster	:)	07:38
raster	thus why i went "crap... which one?" :)	07:39
DocScrutinizer	lol	07:39
raster	i could eliminate by uplugging everything	07:39
raster	etc.	07:39
raster	but i'm not going to bother	07:39
raster	:)	07:39
DocScrutinizer	following bus hierarchy usually helps	07:39
jpinx-eeepc	hubs plugged into hubs is not going to be nice to the n900 I reckon	07:45
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DocScrutinizer	lol, I'm checking hubs etc here. got a memstick (allegedly transcend) that gives me on lsusb -v -d1307:0165 :	07:56
DocScrutinizer	can't get debug descriptor: Connection timed out	07:56
DocScrutinizer	cannot read device status, Connection timed out (110)	07:56
DocScrutinizer	after several correct lines	07:56
jpinx-eeepc	yea - I can buy "branded" kit here in the market and it's crapware ;)	08:03
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logisist	I need a mail client that can do multiple identities, any ideas?	08:14
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DocScrutinizer	some of you might be interested in my success to enable hostmode in a different way than ~hostmode	08:36
DocScrutinizer	~hostmode	08:36
infobot	hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197	08:36
DocScrutinizer	no timing critical fiddling with starting/stopping bme, with plugging in memstick at a certain moment, etc	08:37
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SpeedEvil	Possibly interesting!	08:39
SpeedEvil	I shall need to wake up - I'm just up to get painkillers, and am going to bed having not read it.	08:39
SpeedEvil	great!	08:39
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rtyler	this is more of a n900 question, would it be possible to use the touchscreen as a mouse for my desktop?	08:40
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jpinx-eeepc	goddam wifi :(	08:59
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spinningcompass	rtyler: http://g.mmowe.com/index.php/archives/87712	09:14
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rtyler	I am having trouble understanding this	09:17
rtyler	I'm hoping english isn't the author's first language O_O	09:17
sivang	morning all	09:17
spinningcompass	rtyler: Cantonese, I think.	09:21
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DocScrutinizer	the little front sky has attempted to have assembled an once again , available , excited unexpectedly regularly	09:23
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DocScrutinizer	mhm :-D	09:24
DocScrutinizer	well, nite peeps, hostmode the decent way made me so tired I'm going to follow up on this in 3h	09:25
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jpinx-eeepc	DocScrutinizer: looks good so far - keep up the good work-thanks	09:27
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RST38h	mooorning?	09:33
sivang	hey RST38h	09:35
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RST38h	Oracle asked the founders of the Document Foundation and LibreOffice to leave the OpenOffice.org Community Council.	09:47
RST38h	Hehe	09:47
redeeman	lol	09:47
sivang	?	09:47
sivang	why ?	09:47
doc\|home	RST38h: erm, hadn't it already disbanded?	09:48
* sivang googles		09:48
RST38h	dunno	09:48
RST38h	duncare	09:48
RST38h	But it is a DRAMA!	09:48
doc\|home	well, if it had then it's FUDrama	09:48
sivang	hehe	09:49
RST38h	doc: fud directed at whom?	09:52
doc\|home	how do you define directed? If it's false, and I'm not sure it is, then it looks bad to Oracle	09:53
doc\|home	erm, bad for Oracle, pr-wise	09:53
RST38h	enjoy: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Community_Council_Log_20101014	09:54
doc\|home	foss politics, not interesting, got a specific time? :)	09:54
doc\|home	nevermind, found something someway relevant I think	09:55
* doc\|home reads		09:55
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RST38h	doc: the enemy in question is CorNouws	09:56
RST38h	doc: He is both on the OO council and working on the fork	09:57
RST38h	doc: and they do not like that at all	09:57
doc\|home	ok, seems the founders left, and the council itself didn't actually disband	09:58
doc\|home	my memory of this is why I thought it had http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09/28/openoffice_independence_from_oracle/	09:59
doc\|home	yes, theregister, I know :(	09:59
* RST38h like the register		10:00
doc\|home	it's reporting is blegh at best :/	10:00
doc\|home	(its	10:00
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RST38h	Better than gizmodo	10:01
RST38h	Oh well...	10:02
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PaulyNSamantha	hi	10:04
PaulyNSamantha	all	10:04
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PaulyNSamantha	hey Doc:	10:04
Texrat	hello all	10:05
PaulyNSamantha	hey i think i figured out why my battery goes low	10:07
PaulyNSamantha	i changed kernel power defualt to ideal	10:08
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DocScrutinizer	N9 schematics: http://xckd.com/730/	10:19
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TermanaN900	RST38h, the best section of The Register is the BOFH section :p	10:28
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Texrat	hey bigbrovar	10:42
bigbrovar	Texrat: hey	10:42
bigbrovar	name rings a bell	10:43
Texrat	I've seen you post at alk.maemo.org	10:43
Texrat	talk*	10:43
bigbrovar	yeah thats it	10:43
bigbrovar	I hardly there nowadays though	10:44
Texrat	where I think I hold the posting record :D	10:44
Texrat	yeah	10:44
Texrat	it's tailing off	10:44
bigbrovar	yeah ever since maemo became "mainstream"	10:44
bigbrovar	its what happens to your favourite underground artist when there go big screen lol	10:45
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Texrat	not to mention MeeGo now getting the glory	10:48
Stskeeps	well, it certainly causes some waves when anything meego is mentioned	10:48
Stskeeps	i'm not sure if i should be happy or sad it was the pr 1.3 'multiboot' people spread around instead of the more important part, me being technical lead of meego/n900 ;)	10:49
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FIQ\|n900	What is all the buzz about PR1.3 "enables multiboot maemo/meego"? As I've read, it's just like before - that the only people getting it is actually the same as before?	10:55
Stskeeps	basically a misunderstanding..	10:56
FIQ\|n900	i.e. developers/power users feeling to test things	10:56
Stskeeps	PR1.3 kernel adds patches for kexec	10:56
FIQ\|n900	Ah, ok	10:56
Stskeeps	the way we'll do it in meego/n900 is through u-boot instead	10:56
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bigbrovar	as far as the N900 is concerned I rather have a working functional as bug free as possible maemo than meego. N900 is the taget device of maemo and it would be hard for meego to have the same level of integration and smooth running	11:01
bigbrovar	give me turn by turn navigation and that is all I need. am good to go	11:01
bigbrovar	I can always get a meego device if one is eventually released	11:02
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lucent	pretty pleased with my N900	11:06
lucent	it survived a trip to Burning Man	11:06
redeeman	mine has lost its wifi capabilities	11:06
redeeman	it just craps out	11:06
redeeman	i think its the hardware	11:06
lucent	most of my electronics gear dies a toasty death after my vacation week to that event in the desert	11:06
redeeman	the checksum of the kernel module and firmware is okay	11:06
redeeman	it complains about timeout when initializing the wifi	11:06
lucent	oh shame about that	11:07
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RobbieThe1st	Hi, all	11:13
kerio	Hi, you	11:14
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DocScrutinizer	redeeman: hey, there's been a report about a new N900 with broken wifi just yesterday	11:23
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redeeman	DocScrutinizer: interresting	11:34
redeeman	you wouldn't happen to remember the number?	11:34
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DocScrutinizer51	number?	11:34
redeeman	bug#	11:34
DocScrutinizer51	it's been here	11:34
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mikki-kun\|N900	hey, can somebody point me to the dir where the n900 saves it's confugrations for wireless networks? i'd need to check a password i got for which version of it the n900 successfully uses...	11:36
steinex	mikki-kun\|N900: hmm, grep -Ri for the network in /?	11:37
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johnx	mikki-kun\|N900, it's stored in gconf, I believe	11:38
johnx	uhm, if it were me I'd do something like: gconftool -R / \| less	11:38
johnx	then type / in less and search for your network SSID	11:39
johnx	maybe there's a more friendly/easy way, but I don't know it	11:39
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mikki-kun\|N900	it does @sho it but like 10k likes other crap	11:42
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mikki-kun\|N900	but less is not working	11:43
johnx	switch out less for grep -C 10 MySSID	11:43
mikki-kun\|N900	every time i press enter ESCOM appears -_-	11:43
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andrewfblack	Anyone use there N900 without a Sim with bluetooth tether?	11:44
mikki-kun\|N900	thanks	11:44
mikki-kun\|N900	that worked :)	11:44
* johnx is impressed he's actually started to remember grep options ...		11:45
johnx	only took 10 years	11:45
MohammadAG	LOL	11:46
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FIQ\|n900	nice johnx :)	11:47
DocScrutinizer51	johnx: you missed to metion the ^M instead of CR you'll need in an unpatched xterm for less /	11:48
_trine	does anyone use asterisk on their N900 here ?	11:48
johnx	DocScrutinizer, good to know. I'd given it up as a lost cause and started learning to do without it	11:49
DocScrutinizer51	I fixed the root cause instead :-P	11:50
FIQ\|n900	Noes, no hg for n900	11:50
steinex	FIQ\|n900: porting hg should be a relatively no-brainer	11:53
steinex	it's python...	11:53
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lolcat93	Hey	11:57
lolcat93	How do I get out of the reboot loop? Charging and usb cable doesnt work...	11:57
johnx	lolcat93, is your data backed up?	11:58
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer51> I fixed the root cause instead :-P	11:58
MohammadAG	how?	11:58
lolcat93	johnx: I'm not sure I have any...	11:58
MohammadAG	I really hate how ENTER is KP_ENTER...	11:58
MohammadAG	why the fuck did they even do that	11:58
DocScrutinizer	http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools	11:58
lolcat93	johnx: Any suggestions?	11:59
DocScrutinizer	at bottom	11:59
lolcat93	johnx: I am not far away form returning it to the shop in hope to get a new one	11:59
johnx	lolcat93, will it wait if you pull battery, plug in usb, hold 'u' (on the N900) and plug in the battery?	11:59
johnx	lolcat93, returning it is another good answer :)	11:59
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pupnik	MohammadAG: i'm still wondering about that one	12:00
lolcat93	when van i releaze u?	12:00
lolcat93	Looks like it does nothin..	12:01
alterego	Aww, Mandelbrot is dead	12:01
johnx	when it stops at the 'usb logo' screen	12:01
lolcat93	Nokia it says	12:01
johnx	lolcat93, with a little 'usb' icon in the corner?	12:01
lolcat93	yep	12:01
johnx	you're set	12:01
johnx	reflash	12:01
lolcat93	how?	12:01
johnx	what OS do you run on your desktop?	12:01
lolcat93	and can i releaze u?	12:02
ShadowJK	~flashing	12:02
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	12:02
DocScrutinizer	~flash	12:02
infobot	i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	12:02
lolcat93	ubuntu	12:02
lolcat93	Can I releaze the u?	12:02
johnx	yeah	12:02
DocScrutinizer	yes XD	12:02
johnx	I said 'when it stops at the 'usb logo' screen' a couple minutes ago :)	12:03
DocScrutinizer	lol	12:03
lolcat93	Ahh	12:03
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lolcat93	It was a pita to hold it down while typing and such	12:03
* DocScrutinizer cackles		12:04
johnx	:D yeah, it just forces the device into 'flashing' mode. once it's there you're good	12:04
DocScrutinizer	I recommend though you switch it off immediately, read ALL the page about flashing, prepare everything, then continue doing same procedure to get to "u" mode	12:05
DocScrutinizer	otherwise odds are your battery drains to point of no return, which will create a nice deadlock as you can't charge without flashing, and can't flash without prior charging	12:06
lolcat93	Is this a long thing?	12:06
lolcat93	I'll get a replacement within a week if I return it	12:06
DocScrutinizer	flashing? naw, 60s	12:06
lolcat93	There is no link to download the damn software	12:07
* lolcat93 havent slept and is mildly grumpy		12:07
johnx	might want to leave it until tomorrow	12:07
DocScrutinizer	there is a link, look for URL with nokia in it	12:07
johnx	since it will get to flashing mode we know it's possible to restore it, but if you're tired and impatient and screw up the command you might have a whole bunch more work to restore it	12:08
lolcat93	Oh, I just had to scroll down to see the accept thing	12:08
DocScrutinizer	unless you drain your battery meanwhile, then suddenly you can't enter flashing mode anymore	12:09
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lolcat93	Doh it doesnt work with 64 bit...	12:09
Corsac	but in case you end up like this, it's still possible to charge your battery with another n900 (or at the store)	12:09
Corsac	lolcat93: it does, but you need ia32-libs	12:10
MohammadAG	lolcat93, --force-architecture	12:10
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johnx	off-topic: I really wish we had multiarch already ...	12:11
lolcat93	I guess I will just go to the shop	12:12
lolcat93	I haven't done anything that could possibly break it	12:12
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johnx	sounds like a good option :)	12:13
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lolcat93	johnx: I assume it will take forever	12:15
johnx	heh. which option?	12:15
johnx	flashing? maybe 30 minutes total time, including downloading the tools, and ia32-libs, and actually flashing	12:15
lolcat93	Returning it	12:15
lolcat93	It will take at least a week	12:16
johnx	taking it to a store? yeah maybe instantaneous or maybe weeks	12:16
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johnx	if you're not comfortable with the CLI there's a GUI flasher for windows	12:16
lolcat93	But if this happens three times, they are obligated by law to give me my money back, or a new device	12:16
lolcat93	I'm not really comfortable with Windows anymore	12:16
pupnik	it's nice when that leaves	12:17
lolcat93	It is Linux all the way here	12:17
pupnik	eventually the memories fade too lolcat93	12:17
johnx	then, it's time to start getting comfy with the Linux CLI	12:17
johnx	you might even get to like it eventually :)	12:17
pupnik	all those wonderful midnights you wanted to run down the street with a submachinegun	12:17
lolcat93	With Windows 95 I knew EVERYTHING, I could fix whatever	12:17
pupnik	shooting into anything that moved	12:18
lolcat93	But with Vista I know nothing	12:18
lolcat93	Barley toutched Windows 7	12:18
lolcat93	I like ubuntu, especially here where I have to use a wired network	12:18
lolcat93	But the fun thing with this phone is that, I got it on the insurance for my stolen N97. Then I got a discount of around $200-300 because it had a scratch in the screen (display phone). I told him I would just loose the money, so he gave me a "package deal" where I got a 16 gb micro-sd card and a handsfree and something else. But on the recite it says I only paid for the N900	12:20
johnx	well, that's good and bad :)	12:21
lolcat93	And the three strike rule is awesome. If I get the money back, I can order it from a cheaper store, and if I get a new one I get rid of the scratch	12:21
MohammadAG	how do I suppress killall?	12:23
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Corsac	rm killall	12:23
johnx	suppress?	12:24
MohammadAG	MohamadAG-N900:/etc$ killall somethingthatisntrunning	12:24
MohammadAG	killall: somethingthatisntrunning: no process killed	12:24
MohammadAG	get rid of that ^	12:24
johnx	killall foo 2> /dev/null	12:24
MohammadAG	2>	12:24
MohammadAG	?	12:24
johnx	redirect stderr	12:24
johnx	1 is stdout	12:24
MohammadAG	ah	12:24
MohammadAG	thanks :D	12:24
johnx	useful construct: killall myprogram 2> /dev/null \|\| echo "my own error message"	12:25
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DocScrutinizer51	even more useful sometimes: while killall foobar 2>/dev/null; do sleep 0.1; done	12:32
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johnx	and all sorts of fun variations including printing a '.' everytime you go through the loop :)	12:34
johnx	though, uhm, isn't your logic backwards?	12:34
DocScrutinizer51	backwards logic?	12:35
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DocScrutinizer51	the loop waits until the process actually terminates	12:35
johnx	if it was killed, loop?	12:35
DocScrutinizer51	yes	12:36
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johnx	yeah, guess I could see that	12:36
johnx	great as long as something isn't respawning it for you ;)	12:36
DocScrutinizer51	if it's respawning too fast then you're busted	12:37
johnx	I believe the saying goes " ... and now you have two problems"	12:38
johnx	~lart comcast's DNS admins	12:42
* infobot gives comcast's DNS admins a "free" copy of Windows and then charges double for "Upgrades"		12:42
johnx	that, uh, isn't helping infobot ...	12:43
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ilius	i want to install many development packages from debian repo to my scratchbox, but i get dependency error	12:46
ilius	Depends: libc6-dev but it is not going to be installed	12:46
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johnx	ilius, then it looks like those packages will need to be reworked before they can be installed	12:53
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MohammadAG	are there any apps which use QFile to read data?	13:18
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MohammadAG	nevermind, Symbian example helped :/	13:23
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D-Iivil	Hello.	13:37
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johnx	hallo D-Iivil	13:37
D-Iivil	what's up here?	13:37
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johnx	not too much.	13:40
johnx	late saturday night :)	13:41
D-Iivil	johnx, it's already mid sunday here.	13:41
johnx	what's it like in the future?	13:42
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dRbiG	hehe :)	13:42
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D-Iivil	Pretty much the same as elsewhere I think.	13:42
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johnx	do you have flying cars yet?	13:42
D-Iivil	No, no yet.	13:43
johnx	bah. I'll just sleep in then	13:43
MohammadAG	lol	13:43
D-Iivil	Yeah, tomorrow's gonna be pretty boring worldwide.	13:43
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MohammadAG	hmm	13:44
MohammadAG	I wonder if anyone changed their green full battery light into something else...	13:44
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, why? It should be pretty easy.	13:44
MohammadAG	cause I want to use a green light in my app lol	13:45
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, you're programming traffic lights app? :P	13:45
MohammadAG	maybe :P	13:45
D-Iivil	"red, orange, GO!"	13:46
D-Iivil	Would actually be pretty cool with 0-60mph gps timer bundled with :P	13:46
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MohammadAG	D-Iivil, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50NhK5tl9xw	13:48
D-Iivil	Since I'm here I will ask this guestion here aswell; is there a way to restart Xorg without rebooting the whole device (N900)?	13:48
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MohammadAG	with those boards, when the jailbreak is in progress, it shows a red LED, when it's done, it changes to green	13:48
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, too lazy to try to stream that over 2G...	13:48
MohammadAG	the N900 has both colours :)	13:48
MohammadAG	oh lol	13:48
D-Iivil	And I'm already almost out of battery too.	13:49
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D-Iivil	Anyone? No ideas about that Xorg guestion?	13:57
psycho_oreos	not on n900 lol	13:58
johnx	D-Iivil, check in the init script. you might be able to do it, but I doubt it's safe to do all the time	13:59
alterego	Strange how without the -opengl option to qmlviewer my code runs smoother and looks better.	13:59
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D-Iivil	johnx, will do that, thanks :) I'm just bored to boot the phone while testing stuff and I want to try if restarting Xorg would really clear all cached theme elements and show changed ones like after the reboot :)	14:00
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johnx	alterego, makes sense. after all, you're already in a composited context without 'opengl' mode ...	14:01
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alterego	Hrm, maybe, I would have thought some of the QML primitives would be optimized for OpenGL.	14:04
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johnx	correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that if you tried to use openGL in a window in maemo 5 you'd basically end up having to render-to-texture before it got to the screen	14:05
alterego	Yeah ..	14:06
alterego	Well, no	14:07
alterego	Normal programs are effectively being run like that.	14:07
alterego	But if you create a opengl app you get your own gl context.	14:07
alterego	Actually, when you use the opengl flag on qmlviewer there are more colours, just not good antialiasing and the animations don't seem as smooth.	14:08
johnx	huh. what happens when you do the 'app switcher' thing?	14:08
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alterego	It usually works alright, I think becausr then the compositor reads the buffer	14:09
johnx	if you say so :)	14:10
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Venemo	hi	14:16
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MohammadAG	first app which uses LEDs and doesn't break mce? http://gitorious.org/psfreedomui/psfreedomui/blobs/master/src/procwatch.cpp :P	14:21
* MohammadAG should learn how to use dbus properly instead of using system()		14:21
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* johnx makes his own life more difficult than it needs to be		14:23
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pupnik	it's really hard to go back to a 770 for browsing :)	14:40
* pupnik is amazed how long it took between announcement of omap3 and products with omap3		14:43
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TermanaN900	pupnik, that is horrible. Why would you do such a thing?	14:44
TermanaN900	:p	14:44
oshin	hi, anyone know how to add a new encoding to microb?	14:44
pupnik	TermanaN900: still waiting for my omap3 ship to come in. waiting since feb 2007	14:46
oshin	browser->adjust view->encoding	14:47
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frals	MohammadAG: uh, hasnt that req_lead_pattern_activate been known for a while? :D	14:53
MohammadAG	frals, true, but most apps write to /sys directly, or disable the engine1 & engine2	14:54
MohammadAG	writing to /sys eats CPU, disabling engine1 & 2 requires an mce restart after the app's run	14:54
MohammadAG	fcamera would be an example	14:54
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frals	i think i played around wit the dbus stuff when trying to get mms notifications working :P	14:55
MohammadAG	with default patterns, I'm sure :)	14:55
SpeedEvil	'writing to sys eats CPU' ?	14:55
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timeless_mbp	oshin: WHY?	14:55
MohammadAG	SpeedEvil, lemme rephrase, while true; do echo 255 > lednode; done	14:56
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oshin	timeless_mbp, to force an encoding over a page that use wrong encoding in the html header.	14:56
SpeedEvil	ah	14:56
MohammadAG	otherwise, mce would turn off the led	14:57
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timeless_mbp	oshin: let's try again	14:57
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timeless_mbp	WHAT PAGE!@	14:57
timeless_mbp	WHICH ENCODING	14:57
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* timeless_mbp hates users		14:57
TermanaN900	SHOW ME THE MONEY	14:57
oshin	timeless_mbp, some thai page that the contents are in iso-8859-11 but the html header says utf-8	14:57
TermanaN900	Oh I'm sorry. Wrong situation	14:58
TermanaN900	:p	14:58
timeless_mbp	oshin: thai? glory	14:58
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oshin	any idea?	14:58
oshin	i am bored by grepping.	14:58
timeless_mbp	oshin: personally i'd just yell at the idiotic page author	14:59
timeless_mbp	then i'd load content from elsewhere and boycott his page until he fixed it	14:59
oshin	so you don't know?	14:59
timeless_mbp	but if for some insane reason you persist in visiting such an idiotic service provider	14:59
timeless_mbp	to get such Crappy content	14:59
timeless_mbp	then you're best served by using firefox for mobile, or perhaps opera	14:59
oshin	it could happened with content automated by bots etc.	15:00
timeless_mbp	well some idiot is clearly providing content	15:00
oshin	anyway, thanks.	15:00
timeless_mbp	managing the bot, etc	15:00
timeless_mbp	do the world a favor and complain to that guy	15:00
timeless_mbp	the design of microb is to give users choices that make sense for the product	15:00
timeless_mbp	the product (the n900) does not include support for Thai	15:00
TermanaN900	pissing the hell out of timeless_mbp and what not	15:00
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timeless_mbp	so including menu options which are not remotely useful for 99.99% of the target audience is a huge waste of resources	15:01
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timeless_mbp	not counting localization, testing, etc	15:01
oshin	well	15:01
oshin	there's adjust view option	15:01
timeless_mbp	it actually confuses the majority of the userbase	15:01
oshin	and that's a single line of iconv that can be coded	15:01
timeless_mbp	um	15:01
timeless_mbp	no	15:01
timeless_mbp	not even remotely close	15:01
timeless_mbp	1. it isn't iconv	15:01
timeless_mbp	yes, and any poor sap who actually needs to use that for a supported region will be stuck w/ one more useless and confusing option	15:01
SpeedEvil	3. underpants	15:01
oshin	and a sane coder should just have loaded another editable text file to map the conversion	15:02
timeless_mbp	a sane coder wouldn't work for nokia	15:02
timeless_mbp	and a sane coder would fire a user like you	15:02
timeless_mbp	i'm picking the latter option	15:02
SpeedEvil	Also - nokia has a fundamental problem with UI - they tend to have nigh-immovable specs set in stone.	15:02
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: understatement	15:02
SpeedEvil	Which do not take account of sensible user comments.	15:02
timeless_mbp	note: this user's comments aren't sensible	15:03
oshin	may be greasemonkey could help me on this.	15:03
timeless_mbp	oshin: i highly doubt it	15:03
pupnik	+5 insightful SpeedEvil	15:03
oshin	i bet i can change the html header with it?	15:03
timeless_mbp	oshin: greasemonkey gets a page once you have the page	15:03
SpeedEvil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10354 - for example. Mashing two keys shouldn't work - you should always press them carefully in the right order.	15:03
povbot	Bug 10354: Symbol virtual keyboard inconsistent to access from hardware keyboard.	15:03
timeless_mbp	which means decoding is already done	15:03
timeless_mbp	SpeedEvil: yeah, our ui designers are idiots	15:03
timeless_mbp	they conspire w/ the intl/l10n/kb people to produce the worst experience possible	15:04
timeless_mbp	and they're very good at it	15:04
oshin	ill modify polipo then, thanks.	15:04
timeless_mbp	and by "decoding", please read "destructive mangling"	15:04
SpeedEvil	I'm unsure. I see the value of consistency - even if it annoys some users. Where I object is whenthat spec is not updated when updating it would not confuse the user in any way or complicate the interface, and be useful for users.	15:05
timeless_mbp	oshin: really, getting decoding right by the time it gets to browsers is full of fail	15:05
timeless_mbp	and real users can not use such a menu	15:05
oshin	we used it all the time here.	15:05
timeless_mbp	and if someone does manage to screw up the headers, they probably also will manage to mix the screwed up content	15:05
SpeedEvil	They should all just learn en-us. :)	15:05
oshin	a lot of pages were like that.	15:05
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timeless_mbp	oshin: used which?	15:06
oshin	due to some migration of database of php webboard i think.. well, dunno.	15:06
timeless_mbp	where?	15:06
timeless_mbp	ah see, some idiot screwed something up	15:06
timeless_mbp	and instead of you complaining to the right idiot	15:06
oshin	timeless, do adjustment on page encoding.	15:06
timeless_mbp	you come here	15:06
timeless_mbp	expecting a miracle	15:06
oshin	i expect some sane in the development.	15:06
oshin	that a simple stuffs like encoding should be easily added	15:07
timeless_mbp	well, i expect the idiot who screwed up the conversation to be the one who gets whipped	15:07
MSJ1983	MuhammedAG its there coming any updates on psfreedom?	15:07
timeless_mbp	that's where it went wrong	15:07
oshin	that's why the world has something called 'work-around'	15:07
timeless_mbp	that's where it should be fixed	15:07
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timeless_mbp	yeah, work-around = find a better content provider	15:07
timeless_mbp	one which doesn't get this wrong	15:07
oshin	it's a part of software engineering since stone edge.	15:07
* timeless_mbp ponders		15:07
timeless_mbp	no	15:07
timeless_mbp	if you can't read EDBIC	15:08
timeless_mbp	you don't add support for EDBIC	15:08
timeless_mbp	you just don't waste time reading EDBIC	15:08
timeless_mbp	it saves everyone lots of time and money	15:08
MohammadAG	MSJ1983, yes, tomorrow hopefully	15:08
oshin	in about:config there seems to be a list of encoding	15:08
timeless_mbp	and if someone really wants that EDBIC content, they convert it properly and publish it in a supported format	15:08
oshin	wonder what it can do.	15:08
timeless_mbp	oshin: the MicroB ui is not Gecko	15:08
timeless_mbp	it's hand written gtk-c	15:08
timeless_mbp	and the strings are .po/.mo based	15:09
timeless_mbp	so, in short, "it does nothing"	15:09
timeless_mbp	you could of course try Firefox for mobile	15:09
* timeless_mbp said that about 30 lines ago		15:09
oshin	what's the package of software that has this adjustview menu implemented?	15:09
timeless_mbp	offhand, probably tablet-browser-ui or something	15:09
timeless_mbp	it's closed	15:09
timeless_mbp	don't bother looking for it	15:09
oshin	heh, i didn't notice firefox thanks	15:10
timeless_mbp	...	15:10
* oshin tries.		15:10
timeless_mbp	oshin: please do me a favor and read everything i write to you instead of ignoring it	15:10
timeless_mbp	i'm not writing things to you because i like writing	15:10
timeless_mbp	i'm inherently lazy	15:10
MohammadAG	timeless_mbp, may I ask why it's closed? it's fairly simple	15:10
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oshin	dude you type to fart and pardon me i am not even a native english user	15:10
MohammadAG	unlike bme and that stuff	15:10
timeless_mbp	but do me the common courtesy of reading answers to questions you ask	15:10
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hahlo	can you send text message (sms) from command line, and read incoming messages too?	15:11
timeless_mbp	MohammadAG: management process failure	15:11
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Robot101	timeless_mbp: you should probably just switch to a different channel, you seem to care about this way too much	15:11
timeless_mbp	oshin: if you don't understand something someone says, ask for clarification	15:11
Robot101	timeless_mbp: http://xkcd.com/386/	15:11
oshin	well firefox is slow	15:11
timeless_mbp	don't ignore it	15:11
Robot101	I left #maemo for a few months, it was great	15:11
oshin	and yeh i can safely ignore it later.	15:11
Robot101	in fact it was just my irssi config that brought me back by mistake	15:12
oshin	like 'on the fly' ignoring the resolution.	15:12
oshin	s/re//	15:12
timeless_mbp	Robot101: heh	15:12
infobot	oshin meant: like 'on the fly' ignoring the solution.	15:12
timeless_mbp	i was wondering why you ended up back here	15:12
Robot101	I wonder why you stay here if it makes you so angry :)	15:12
timeless_mbp	Robot101: it doesn't most of the time :)	15:12
timeless_mbp	and sometimes people listen	15:13
timeless_mbp	or at least, i have to hope that once in a while people would listen	15:13
Robot101	well it doesn't make me angry most of the time either, but when it does it really excels :P	15:13
timeless_mbp	it could happen!	15:13
oshin	yeh he's useful most of the time.	15:13
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Robot101	I'm mostly just laughing at the moment	15:13
timeless_mbp	oshin: you do realize that i work on the browser, right?	15:13
Robot101	which is good because I needed cheering up	15:13
oshin	hell no!	15:13
timeless_mbp	you're more or less asking about my baby and then ignoring me	15:13
timeless_mbp	which is a terrible idea	15:14
timeless_mbp	and if you don't know what a person here does, there's a part of maemo.org w/ profiles that would tell you	15:14
MSJ1983	i was thinking about hermes 4 or somthing that come up MuhammadAG	15:14
oshin	i wouldn't bother reading that for just a simple question	15:14
oshin	like how to add more encoding and get 'no' rather than 'why'	15:14
oshin	see? world work easier that way.	15:15
timeless_mbp	oshin: if there's a major content producer, i'm willing to use that either to contact the producer directly	15:15
timeless_mbp	or to suggest to some future UI person that we might need to include the option	15:15
oshin	well, that's like xml philosophy	15:15
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oshin	people do produces error	15:15
timeless_mbp	s/produces error/produce errors/	15:16
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timeless_mbp	yes, you've proven that	15:16
oshin	and why you wasting your time manifying the error?	15:16
oshin	aren't you producing it as well?	15:16
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* timeless_mbp looks up http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manify		15:17
timeless_mbp	did you mean magnify?…	15:17
timeless_mbp	oshin: put differently	15:17
timeless_mbp	if you have content which has a tiny error in it, such as your typos	15:17
timeless_mbp	you ignore it, right?	15:17
oshin	it's fun, but.. i dont have time	15:17
oshin	yeh	15:18
timeless_mbp	why don't you ignore the minor errors w/ the thai content?	15:18
oshin	like rasterman	15:18
oshin	i can't read them	15:18
timeless_mbp	what's so different between the thai content and me?	15:18
oshin	well hey, it's cool but later	15:18
timeless_mbp	well, why is that thai content so important?	15:18
oshin	need to get something done quickly	15:18
oshin	friend sutffs	15:18
timeless_mbp	(this was my original question)	15:18
oshin	like chatting board	15:18
oshin	later!	15:18
timeless_mbp	surely there's an admin you could contact	15:19
oshin	well... no	15:19
timeless_mbp	if you do that, you'll fix your problem forever	15:19
oshin	too bad	15:19
oshin	they hardly response you know	15:19
timeless_mbp	instead of having to fix it for each page or at least each session	15:19
timeless_mbp	have you tried?	15:19
oshin	sure	15:19
timeless_mbp	on this item?	15:19
oshin	i even know his home	15:19
timeless_mbp	(with pictures)	15:19
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oshin	well.. since in other browser they can have default encoding	15:20
timeless_mbp	we can too	15:20
oshin	and adjust encoding that can be easily accessed	15:20
timeless_mbp	for a limited set of encodings that made sense for our target audience	15:20
oshin	people lived with it	15:20
oshin	and they don't bother fixing	15:20
oshin	ah works!	15:20
oshin	thanks really!	15:20
timeless_mbp	which works? firefox for mobile?	15:20
oshin	no, firefox desktop	15:21
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oshin	i am on mobile they are on desktop so i don't know	15:21
timeless_mbp	"you can't take it with you"	15:21
timeless_mbp	fwiw, i can't see any obvious way to manually add an encoding to Safari on OS X	15:21
timeless_mbp	and i'd be shocked to discover i could w/ Safari on my iPod touch	15:22
timeless_mbp	(first I'd have to find my iPod touch, then i'd have to find the charging cable, and then ...)	15:22
oshin	can't you just edit nib on safari osx?	15:22
timeless_mbp	the odds of that doing anything remotely useful are rather poor	15:22
timeless_mbp	but sure, i can edit a nib	15:22
oshin	to add more encoding if the underlying coversion is in something like iconv	15:22
timeless_mbp	no	15:22
timeless_mbp	not generally	15:23
timeless_mbp	you're assuming a very specific form of plumbing	15:23
timeless_mbp	which is unlikely to be present	15:23
oshin	well i have that in the framework ive been working on say gnustep	15:23
timeless_mbp	in Gecko's case, sometimes something like that works	15:23
oshin	add something we don't code, we fix the nibs	15:23
timeless_mbp	but in MicroB or Safari, you typically have a UI which maps a stringID to a number and a user visible string	15:24
timeless_mbp	the number is then specifically hard coded to do work in a couple of functions	15:24
timeless_mbp	so adding a new user visible string does nothing	15:24
timeless_mbp	because there's no hard coding on the other side for the other number to do what you want ™	15:24
oshin	i think i better port libobjc2 to meego	15:25
oshin	thanks!	15:25
timeless_mbp	(this is definitely true for MicroB, how accurate it is for Safari, I can't say)	15:25
timeless_mbp	"have fun storming the castle"	15:25
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* timeless_mbp wonders if people recognize that line		15:27
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oshin	yeh it's cool	15:27
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oshin	btw	15:28
oshin	when i say "ah works" it means argh i have some works to do.	15:28
oshin	i just found the conversaions' meaning went downhill lol	15:29
timeless_mbp	oh, you meant "ah, work :(", not "ah, [it] works"	15:29
* timeless_mbp sighs		15:30
oshin	yeh	15:30
oshin	lol	15:30
oshin	welll	15:30
timeless_mbp	see, getting things right is important	15:30
oshin	n/m	15:30
oshin	sure	15:30
oshin	but we can fixed it later	15:30
oshin	like now	15:30
timeless_mbp	depends	15:30
timeless_mbp	that requires someone to recognize there was a mistake	15:30
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timeless_mbp	and it assumes no one storms off in a huff	15:30
timeless_mbp	(as Robot101 suggested)	15:30
oshin	just different approach on how to collecting expereience on how to producing error	15:31
oshin	i am thinking of something, sorry for the grammar	15:31
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pupnik_	http://apps.open-pandora.org/cgi-bin/viewarea.pl?Games	15:36
pupnik_	Games, portable to n900. There	15:36
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pupnik_	is there any compiler that can obfusticate the resulting binary, maybe sign each with a unique hash?	15:47
MSJ1983	more hames	15:49
MSJ1983	:-	15:49
MSJ1983	games :-)	15:49
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pupnik_	MSJ1983: there are only a handful un-ported ones. but some look cool	15:52
MSJ1983	jaii...	15:53
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MSJ1983	somebody tried live wallpapers on the nokia n900	15:53
MSJ1983	myne crashes now all time	15:53
MSJ1983	somebody know what do to	15:53
MSJ1983	i can not make i normal again	15:54
MSJ1983	plz help	15:54
lcuk	MSJ1983, hrm	15:55
lcuk	which specific ones are you trying	15:55
lcuk	and whats the actual errors and when do they happen	15:55
MSJ1983	that withe ariplane	15:55
MSJ1983	and city	15:55
MSJ1983	thing	15:55
MSJ1983	crap program	15:55
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xDaReaperx	Hey	15:55
xDaReaperx	how's everyone doing ?	15:55
pupnik_	weee	15:57
MSJ1983	somebody know if i reset the nokia n900 what happend to my contackts	15:57
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MohammadAG	hmm	15:58
MohammadAG	top metal bar is making an annoying click whenever I touch it	15:59
MohammadAG	any fixes?	15:59
MSJ1983	:_(	15:59
MohammadAG	lcuk, I noticed the new hildon-desktop (probably for PR1.3) has live-bg code in it	16:00
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lcuk	MohammadAG, its been there for a while, or do you mean new code	16:01
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MohammadAG	not sure, but it has to do with the desktop bg not moving when live-bg is active	16:02
MohammadAG	which wasn't planned in the old PR1.2 live-bg	16:02
lcuk	afaik its there already, since livewp has option for one background over all screens as does gas balls	16:02
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xDaReaperx	Anyone from India here ? i needed to know if there were any stores where i could buy the N900 screen protector	16:09
SpeedEvil	I used ebay for mine.	16:09
SpeedEvil	Got a pack of 10, used 1	16:10
SpeedEvil	3	16:10
xDaReaperx	Cost ?	16:10
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MohammadAG51	got a DQC-160	16:11
SpeedEvil	3.99 pounds I think.	16:11
SpeedEvil	really cheap	16:11
xDaReaperx	omg thats so cheap	16:11
xDaReaperx	Martin Fields costs like 20 $ with shipping for 1	16:11
SpeedEvil	yes	16:11
SpeedEvil	I'm not saying these protectors fon't suck compred to an expensive one - but personally, they make the device no harder to use, and protect mys crren from scratches.	16:12
* lcuk was surprised by how many multitouch devices failed the boobie test		16:12
MohammadAG51	boobie? test?	16:13
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Chani	o.0	16:13
MohammadAG51	Vikuiti DQC-160, about €10 shipped i think	16:13
Appiah	controlling the device with boobs?	16:13
MohammadAG51	using it since january	16:14
xDaReaperx	Ow .... Okay do they provide a clear display ?	16:14
lcuk	MohammadAG51, multitouch computers from lots of manufacturers, I played with a load of them and just try to draw 2 big circles on the screen one with each hand	16:14
MohammadAG51	device got scratched, screen didn't	16:14
lcuk	like boobies	16:14
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Chani	aww. that's a far less entertaining mental image ;)	16:14
lcuk	Chani, I walked out of the store leaving loads of screens with amusingly incorrect drawings	16:15
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MohammadAG51	lol	16:15
Chani	hehe	16:15
lcuk	i removed the youtube of it, but I have the original video from earlier this year here..	16:15
MohammadAG51	liqbase.net? :P	16:16
lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.multitouch.boobies.fail.20100402_003.mp4	16:16
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lcuk	there was a hp dual mode slate which appeared to work better than naything :) it even had a stylus!	16:16
lcuk	anything ^	16:16
xDaReaperx	should be on TPB	16:17
MohammadAG51	i want to disassemble the screen	16:18
MohammadAG51	but i'm scared	16:18
lcuk	MohammadAG51, my n900 is scratched o_O	16:18
lcuk	happened sometime on my trip	16:18
xDaReaperx	my N900's screen is scratched .. very lightly though .. caused by the stupid stylus	16:19
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MohammadAG51	i pulled the headset out of my pocket, the n900 was connected, it didn't hold well so it hit the ground	16:19
lcuk	xDaReaperx, the stylus does not scratch the screen	16:19
lcuk	but it has a very small surface area and if it catches a piece of grit	16:19
MohammadAG51	got a scratch on the battery cover	16:19
lcuk	it will carry it around	16:19
MohammadAG51	and near the right speaker	16:20
* lcuk used a wet wipe on the plane and made it squeeky clean		16:20
MohammadAG51	metal bar is still new, but it creaks at the top now	16:20
xDaReaperx	i don't know but when ever i use the stylus , while scrolling i fell like i'm scratching the screen	16:20
xDaReaperx	its barely visible , but i'd better get a screen protector	16:20
lcuk	xDaReaperx, I have learnt to feel that situation	16:21
lcuk	its like trying to write with a pencil with broken lead tip	16:21
lcuk	you "feel" it quickly	16:21
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xDaReaperx	kind of	16:21
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lcuk	ahhh I also did that video: http://liqbase.net/liq.packard.bell.confused.multitouch.20100329_006.mp4	16:22
xDaReaperx	lol	16:22
SpeedEvil	I found that a sharpened bit of twig was actually much less liably to grab grit than the pointer.	16:23
lcuk	its frustrating because microsoft surface components include multiplayer games	16:23
SpeedEvil	Oddly.	16:23
lcuk	SpeedEvil, potentially because the grit could be taken up into the wood a little	16:24
SpeedEvil	I _wrecked_ my first protector due to 'blocks'.	16:24
lcuk	haha	16:24
lcuk	i was once on the train	16:24
lcuk	and a woman next to me pulled out a dell axiom	16:24
lcuk	I couldnt see her actual screen pixels	16:24
lcuk	but the reflection caught her scratch marks	16:25
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xDaReaperx	the internet says using a banana could remove scratches =/	16:25
lcuk	and she must play solitaire every single day	16:25
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SpeedEvil	xDaReaperx: Rub a bananna in your eye, and you can't see scratches.	16:26
xDaReaperx	haha	16:26
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SpeedEvil	In practice, removing scratches is very much harder trhan not creating them.	16:26
SpeedEvil	Also - the gel on the backof screen protectors will cover up most.	16:26
* lcuk once tried to remove a scratch from CRT with anti glare coating		16:27
SpeedEvil	I did that too.	16:27
SpeedEvil	I ended up going over the screen with SiC paper, to make it even, and then coating with linseed oil.	16:28
SpeedEvil	It worked surprisingly well.	16:28
DocScrutinizer	~moo	16:28
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass		16:28
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SpeedEvil	Actually.	16:28
SpeedEvil	More methane comes out of the mouth.	16:28
pupnik_	curse infobot for putting that song in my head	16:30
xDaReaperx	lol srsly ? banana's : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfT9qfVkVQM	16:30
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xDaReaperx	sad thing is i can't buy online i'm like only 17	16:43
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xDaReaperx	could have bought a screen protector online or else	16:43
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* RST38h yawns		16:45
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RST38h	You can buy online even if you are only a dog	16:45
xDaReaperx	like how ?	16:45
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xDaReaperx	i dont have a credit card ... also	16:46
xDaReaperx	not even a bank account lol	16:46
nidO	well your restriction isnt being 17	16:46
nidO	its not having a bank account.	16:46
RST38h	They won't sell you booze, but you can probably get uranium chloride	16:46
xDaReaperx	meaning ?	16:47
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xDaReaperx	nidO: true	16:48
Myrtti	I've had a bank account since I was 5	16:48
Myrtti	how can someone not have a bank account at 17?	16:48
Myrtti	boggle	16:48
xDaReaperx	nah i dont have one sadly no joke	16:48
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DocScrutinizer	Myrtti: tztztzz	16:49
MohammadAG	get a debit card?	16:49
xDaReaperx	hmm no , i have paypal with no cash in it	16:49
DocScrutinizer	lo MohammadAG	16:49
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MohammadAG	in Israel they let you buy one at any age, yet in other shops they think having a credit/debit card means your 18+	16:50
MohammadAG	o/ DocScrutinizer	16:50
DocScrutinizer	hah!! now we got to the root issue - you got no MONEY	16:50
MohammadAG	xDaReaperx, go out and buy one	16:50
xDaReaperx	uh i get pocket money	16:50
MohammadAG	our local post office sells debit card	16:50
MohammadAG	s	16:50
xDaReaperx	hmm ok	16:50
MohammadAG	hi Termana cracks knuckles	16:51
Termana	errr hello	16:51
Termana	what have I done now? :p	16:51
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MohammadAG	you showed up xP	16:51
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Termana	heh :P	16:51
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RST38h	Myrrti: I did not have bank account at 17.	16:52
RST38h	But as I didn't have any money either, it didn't bother me:)	16:53
xDaReaperx	well i went to getjar.com yesterday and i wrote to them about including Maemo application softwares on their website and include support for the phones N770, N800 , N810 and N900, i got an email saying : We're working on it.Thanks,	16:53
Termana	xDaReaperx, resistive screens seem to scratch more easily and the worst bit about them is that you can actually feel and hear it as you use it (once you've scratched it - feels/sounds aweful)	16:53
Termana	Either resistive screens or maybe it's just Nokia's	16:53
* lcuk pokes VDVsx		16:54
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xDaReaperx	yes thats right ... thats why it feels weird while using the stylus to scroll and stuff	16:54
Termana	But I got it on my N810 and it seems to be starting on my n900 as well	16:54
* DocScrutinizer stares at N900 "switching on" from act_dead, like the 1000th time, wondering...		16:54
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xDaReaperx	I don't know but , Nokia had better touch screen on the N97	16:55
sivang	dashavoo: act_dead?	16:55
DocScrutinizer	~lart xDaReaperx	16:55
* infobot turns xDaReaperx into a lifesized tux doll		16:55
dashavoo	sivang: huh?	16:55
xDaReaperx	wow lol	16:55
Termana	sivang, I think you meant DocScrutinizer	16:56
dashavoo	aah, tabcomplete fail	16:56
DocScrutinizer	ETAB	16:56
Termana	sivang, and act_dead is the state it's in when you plug the charger in when it's off and it starts booting and then goes "dead"	16:56
DocScrutinizer	sivang: act_dead aka "charging" aka possibly runlevel 1	16:57
dashavoo	does anyone have any idea why I can't connect to the network using mobilehotspot? Months ago it worked fine, but nowadays it all seems to start ok but I can't connect.	16:58
DocScrutinizer	depending on a few config vars it can even run updates in that state, keep GSM data connections and whatnot	16:58
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, when the device is charging, X is up	16:58
MohammadAG	no idea why	16:58
dashavoo	i was googling for the answer for a while, but there is only so much i can stand using the internet on a phone screen	16:58
MohammadAG	Termana, Nokia, the N900 scratches more than the N97	16:59
xDaReaperx	yes thats what i meant ^	16:59
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: I think that's heritage from N810/diablo where there was an always-on charging screen	16:59
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, so it might be actually runlevel 5	16:59
DocScrutinizer	or that	17:00
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, the N900 has a charging screen, no battery indicator though	17:00
MohammadAG	the screen can be forced on by some changes to the kernel coupled with R&D mode	17:00
MohammadAG	it just shows the 5 moving dots continuously	17:00
DocScrutinizer	FFS	17:01
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dashavoo	damn this dodgy phone network >=(	17:03
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I know, it's half baked and stupid	17:03
dashavoo	did anyone respond to my question by any chance?	17:04
DocScrutinizer	wtf?	17:04
DocScrutinizer	Oct 20 20:49:04 Nokia-N900-02-8 maemo-launcher[1507]: invoking '/usr/bin/worldclock.launch'	17:04
DocScrutinizer	dashavoo: nope	17:05
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: OMGz	17:05
Scelt	any rumored change logs for pr1.3?	17:05
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sivang	Scelt: most centrainly it won't inclue the fix to the microb tap in problem :)	17:06
Appiah	There will be none! people will have to figure out what changed	17:06
Scelt	sivang: microb tap?	17:06
sivang	DocScrutinizer: I had a feeling this what happens, I guess that it why when the battery is completely dead it goes bricked.	17:06
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RST38h	Scelt: "None of the most popular bmo bugs will be fixed.Ever. "	17:07
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lcuk	sivang, you mean it becomes unbootable for an unspecified amount of time	17:07
Scelt	RST38h: ;D	17:07
sivang	lcuk: heh, yeah soemthing like that	17:07
lcuk	normally once something is bricked, its only ever future usecase is as a brick in a wall :P	17:07
* RST38h laughs satanically and displays a pair of lightup horns		17:07
sivang	heh	17:07
DocScrutinizer	sivang: err sorry?	17:07
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lcuk	RST38h, :D	17:07
lcuk	getting ready for halloween	17:08
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: Well, when you get the battery completely drained, and you need to restore the rootfs,	17:08
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: you need to charge the battery esle where	17:08
sivang	DocScrutinizer: since quite design errornously, it needs to boot to charge.	17:08
sivang	but I had a hunch since i saw messages are getting updated	17:09
xDaReaperx	can the N900 ever have Multi touch ?	17:09
Scelt	nope	17:09
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Termana	It already does	17:09
Termana	MAWAHAHAHA	17:09
MohammadAG	<DocScrutinizer> Oct 20 20:49:04 Nokia-N900-02-8 maemo-launcher[1507]: invoking '/usr/bin/worldclock.launch'	17:09
MohammadAG	it auto opens apps to speed up the way they launch	17:10
MohammadAG	ala iPhone I think	17:10
MohammadAG	edit the .desktop file to change that	17:10
Termana	Okay, so not traditional multi touch but you can do fake multi touch on it :p	17:10
DocScrutinizer	sivang: err, yes? known issue - though I don't agree on the part "quite design errornously,"	17:10
sivang	DocScrutinizer: can you please explain? I would expect charging to not rely on anything that could block getting the device back into usable state	17:11
MohammadAG	Scelt, yes, PR1.3 solves the US recession problems	17:11
MohammadAG	Change, is coming!	17:11
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: but then again, I'm not a hardware expert	17:11
xDaReaperx	Ow like that cool	17:11
sivang	DocScrutinizer: so this might be a technical constraint which is unsolveable	17:11
RST38h	Oh, Mohammad, REALLY?	17:11
Scelt	MohammadAG: wat is dat?	17:11
sivang	MohammadAG: PR1.3 has been announced?	17:11
DocScrutinizer	sivang: bq24150 charger chip isn't perfect, but among the best you can get for the given amount of money	17:12
MohammadAG	RST38h, yes, it also bring world peace	17:12
MohammadAG	and solves poverty and famine	17:12
RST38h	Anything about unicorns?	17:12
derf	It will also get you laid.	17:12
MohammadAG	sivang, in all seriousness, no, but it's coming	17:12
RST38h	derf: nooooooooooooo...	17:12
DocScrutinizer	sivang: Nokia could listen to my suggestion and include a 'hold C' mode for charging, to MOLO	17:12
DocScrutinizer	err Nolo	17:12
sivang	MohammadAG: I know it is coming, thought there was something new on that :)	17:12
RST38h	Doc: The first partof that sentence is guaranteed to be false.	17:13
sivang	DocScrutinizer: but they didn't? maybe you can suggest this to meego?	17:13
DocScrutinizer	but that's not a hw design issue	17:13
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DocScrutinizer	meego doesn't deal with bootloaders	17:13
MohammadAG	sivang NOLO doesn't have to do with maemo or meego	17:13
DocScrutinizer	errr	17:13
DocScrutinizer	maybe it does :-)	17:13
MohammadAG	no	17:13
sivang	MohammadAG: as it is the boot loader?	17:13
DocScrutinizer	yes	17:13
MohammadAG	MeeGo chainloads using uboot	17:13
sivang	ah right	17:14
sivang	does this make things better?	17:14
DocScrutinizer	uBoot is a bootloader :-P	17:14
sivang	and NOLO is?	17:14
MohammadAG	true, but it doesn't have to do with nolo	17:14
MohammadAG	NOkia LOader	17:14
MohammadAG	or something	17:14
Termana	I still don't think it should need any user input, it should just play fucking dead and charge, not even try to boot. :P anyway	17:14
DocScrutinizer	NOLO is a bootloader as well	17:15
MohammadAG	Termana, flash a broken kernel, it'll do that	17:15
MohammadAG	but NOLO kicks brightness to 255, so it might use more power than the bq will supply	17:15
Termana	MohammadAG, sure, but who else is closer to Nokia than the MeeGo N900 adaptation team :p	17:15
DocScrutinizer	that's why the trick they are going to use for meego is called chainloading	17:15
sivang	Termana++	17:15
MohammadAG	at least with the emergency charging stuff	17:15
Termana	MohammadAG, yes that's great (and I already knew it would do that), but it doesn't help when your battery is flat	17:15
Termana	and you have a reboot loop or something like that	17:16
MohammadAG	Termana, all finnish peeps :P	17:16
DocScrutinizer	Termana: technically act_dead is a fully booted state	17:16
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MohammadAG	Termana, that's the point, flash a kernel that kernel panics	17:16
Termana	DocScrutinizer, no, I mean act dead as in stay the hell off, not act_dead	17:16
MohammadAG	-> no reboot loop, it just drools there	17:16
Termana	MohammadAG, you can't flash when the battery is below a certain point	17:17
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MohammadAG	Termana, yes you can, use a knife on the flash	17:17
Termana	MohammadAG, FLASH, I don't want SLASH it	17:17
DocScrutinizer	Termana: it will charge to 3.7V maximum without booting, which isn't exactly what you'd expect it to do normally when "charging"	17:17
Termana	DocScrutinizer, and what's the minimum level to reflash?	17:18
DocScrutinizer	dunno, maybe 3.8V	17:18
DocScrutinizer	anyway, if it's for reflashing, then you'll need NOLO no matter what. So why not charge in NOLO (which means hardware has booted) rather than requiring hw to do the charging unattended	17:20
DocScrutinizer	or charge in uBoot for that behalf, as we can't patch NOLO that simply	17:21
Termana	DocScrutinizer, your solution of using a button to put it into a charging mode in NOLO is acceptable, certainly better than it is at the moment.	17:21
DocScrutinizer	OTOH with uBoot you got proper dual boot in place and can as well boot to a working OS for charging	17:21
Termana	I still think it's better for it to just stay off. Especially from a user point of view.	17:22
DocScrutinizer	Termana: nonsense	17:22
Termana	DocScrutinizer, the other thing with having to press a button is that you have to sit with it while it emergency charges and quickly hit it before it starts trying to boot.	17:22
DocScrutinizer	from a user POV it means you got no proper charging indication	17:22
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DocScrutinizer	all other aspects are not a bit different from user POV	17:22
Termana	DocScrutinizer, sure you do. My Desire shows an orange light while it's charging, and a green light when it's done	17:23
Termana	DocScrutinizer, what other output are you getting in act_dead? None	17:23
Termana	Just the LED	17:23
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DocScrutinizer	Termana: oh, you're discussing hardware mods now - the severe kind like ripping out whole charging circuit and replacing it by something different and much more expensive. Sure, you are free to do that, on your N900 :-P	17:24
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Termana	heh :p	17:25
DocScrutinizer	Termana: and how the heck are you sure about your Desire is not booted to do the whole charging and LED blinkenlights?	17:26
Termana	DocScrutinizer, its not booted into USERSPACE.	17:26
DocScrutinizer	/kick Termana	17:26
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xDaReaperx	meh	17:26
Termana	DocScrutinizer, I know this because I completely wiped the userspace on it.	17:26
Termana	(and the charging mechanism continued functioning when off)	17:27
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DocScrutinizer	Termana: don't you think that's done in Desire's bootloader, just like I suggested doing it on N900? Why do you want to ruin your N900 by stupid hw mods, and why are you arguing with me about that, stealing my time?	17:32
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Termana	DocScrutinizer, It is possibly done in the bootloader, but it shouldn't need to turn on and have the user press a button (which is your n900 solution), you should be able to just put it on the charger and leave it there. Secondly, I'm not doing stupid hardware mods I was comparing it to another device and as to your final question, you have nothing else to do and your in an IRC channel, so I am discussing the merits of what I feel is	17:35
Termana	a design flaw by Nokia with someone that has more brain capacity than someone on t.m.o	17:35
DocScrutinizer	sorry I don't get this. But I feel like I'm not actually interested in getting it	17:36
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eichi	hello, someone knows, how to get maps in the eCoach with N800?	17:43
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xDaReaperx	i use google latitude better than maps	17:49
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* lardman considers PythonQtObjectPtrs		18:10
* MohammadAG curses translating Python to C++		18:10
lardman	perhaps PythonQt would be of interest then	18:11
MohammadAG	I hate python	18:11
lardman	Python scripting within C++/Qt	18:11
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MohammadAG	and I'm 90% complete	18:11
lardman	Python is ok, at least it's quick and doesn't require a compiler	18:11
MohammadAG	but I'm stuck at the help window	18:11
lardman	and it also has lots of "libraries" available	18:11
MohammadAG	which is some ugly code imo	18:12
oshin	+1 hate py	18:12
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* lardman wonders if implementing python plugins for mBarcode was a waste of time then!		18:12
oshin	love objective-c and can see everybody -1 for it	18:12
MohammadAG	http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jV7jtLY4	18:13
MohammadAG	lardman, see how ugly that is ^?	18:13
lardman	hmm, interesting approach there	18:14
MohammadAG	there must be an easier way	18:15
MohammadAG	I just want a window with Phat Slim	18:15
MohammadAG	select model	18:15
MohammadAG	then it displays page 1	18:15
MohammadAG	with next button	18:15
MohammadAG	page 2 with next/back	18:15
MohammadAG	next and back would use the next or previous image	18:15
lardman	big select{}	18:15
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MohammadAG	err?	18:16
lardman	but don't ask me, I just write procedural code :)	18:16
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pupnik	lardman: sometimes these things happen slowly	18:16
* pupnik is also procedural generation		18:16
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lardman	all in one fn, then use a variable to hold the page # and change the label contents accordingly	18:17
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frals	MohammadAG: dont blame the language when the developer has been writing shitting code ;)	18:19
MohammadAG	frals, python is slow, admit it :)	18:19
MohammadAG	fMMS is the slowest app (to start at least) on my N900	18:19
MohammadAG	on a PC, you might notice it, but on a 600MHz device with a shitty eMMC...	18:19
frals	browser is slowe when not prestarted ;-)	18:20
lardman	Oooh, I've just received my first MMS, speaking of which	18:20
lardman	I wondered why my phone had decided to go online for no apparent reason	18:20
MohammadAG	frals, the browser loads a whole engine ;)	18:20
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MohammadAG	frals, does fMMS have a daemon of some sort?	18:21
lardman	MohammadAG: that lurks in browserd afair	18:21
MohammadAG	I got an MMS notification and it wasn't running	18:21
frals	yes, the daemon is responsible for notifications etc	18:21
MohammadAG	ah	18:21
frals	ie the client doesnt have to be open :p	18:21
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lardman	Curious, I connected to my wifi connection, then fmms told me I'd need to change connection and afict it's just connected to it again	18:22
MohammadAG	frals, anyway, I've given up on python for large apps, eats too much memory and it's slow	18:22
MohammadAG	PSFreedom takes 12 seconds to load in Python, 4 in C++/Qt	18:22
frals	lardman: that part of the code is a tad buggy.. i blame icd2 for not doing as i tell it to ;)	18:22
lardman	so I should connect to the mms connection manually?	18:23
frals	lardman: yeah, thats the foolproof way of doing it	18:23
frals	MohammadAG: 12 seconds sounds a tad excessive.. but 4 in compiled sounds bad as well imo :D	18:24
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lardman	hmm, doesn't like the connection	18:24
lardman	perhaps that's why I've never managed to send an MMS	18:24
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MohammadAG	frals, well, my N900 takes 6 mins to boot up, do the maths :P	18:25
frals	lardman: quite possibly :P	18:26
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lardman	one of those things I use so infrequently that I can never be bothered to track down where exactly it's failing	18:27
lardman	never mind	18:27
frals	MohammadAG: fmms starts in ~5secs on my device fwiw :p	18:27
frals	lardman: if you cant connect to the mms apn manually there is no way fmms can send/receive messages :)	18:27
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MohammadAG	frals 11	18:28
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lardman	frals: of course, but I used to be able to connect to the Vodafone one, though no messages could pass, and now it's automatically set me up with a wap.voicestream.com (iirc) server	18:29
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* MohammadAG slaps Noobmonk3y with a compiled frals		18:31
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* Noobmonk3y giggles		18:31
* Noobmonk3y waves		18:31
Noobmonk3y	lo alls	18:31
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MohammadAG	my hands hurt :/	18:31
lardman	too much slapping?	18:32
* MohammadAG curses rock band, continues playing		18:32
Noobmonk3y	lol!!	18:32
Noobmonk3y	hahaha	18:32
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* lardman wonders how to return a QStringList from Python		18:34
Noobmonk3y	by feeding it bacon	18:34
lardman	no, feeding me bacon makes me look at the docs so I can write the right code ;)	18:35
Noobmonk3y	lol what ya doing with it?	18:35
Noobmonk3y	could chuck it into a list?	18:35
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Noobmonk3y	QStringList list;	18:36
Noobmonk3y	list = str.split(",");	18:36
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lardman	am writing an mBarcode plugin which itself contains and handles all the Python plugins to be supported via PythonQt	18:36
Noobmonk3y	oooooooooo	18:36
kerio	BACON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	18:36
kerio	Noobmonk3y: ";"?	18:37
kerio	wtf	18:37
lardman	I need to interogate each Python plugin to get things like name, description, which barcodes it wants to handle and pass them to the C++ code which handles the overall plugin arch	18:37
Noobmonk3y	lol kerio :P	18:37
Noobmonk3y	lard, that just sounds confusing :)	18:37
Pillum	Hangup tset: unknown terminal type xterm	18:38
lardman	yeah is pretty confusing	18:38
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Pillum	i cant change my scratchbox target	18:38
Noobmonk3y	wb lcuk	18:38
Pillum	can someone help me with that?	18:38
lardman	ignore the layered plugins bit, that's just so that mBarcode doesn't require people to install python unless they want to	18:38
lcuk	hey Noobmonk3y \o	18:38
lardman	hey lcuk	18:38
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Noobmonk3y	hey hey ! :)	18:38
lcuk	Pillum, why not? run sb-menu, kill all the existing processes in current target then switch ?	18:38
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lcuk	hiya lardman \o	18:39
Pillum	lcuk: Hangup \n tset: unknown terminal type xterm \n Terminal type?	18:39
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Pillum	using Ubuntu 10.10	18:40
lcuk	Pillum, huh? at what point and was it working happily before you did this?	18:40
lcuk	and have you tried rebooting your ubuntu :P	18:40
Pillum	mom :D	18:40
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MohammadAG	Pillum, CTRL^C then start scratchbox again	18:41
Pillum	its a fresh sdk installation from yesterday	18:41
MohammadAG	I get the same	18:41
Pillum	didnt used it since then	18:41
MohammadAG	it'll switch targets properly	18:41
Pillum	k	18:41
MohammadAG	you just have to restart scratchbox	18:41
lcuk	lardman, are you a red or a white wine person?	18:41
lardman	red for sure	18:41
Pillum	is there a mlt package available for n900 yet?	18:41
Pillum	need that for audio/video cutter	18:42
lcuk	Pillum, try it and see	18:42
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Noobmonk3y	talkinf of wine... must be time for a quick glass :)	18:42
Noobmonk3y	talking* even	18:42
lcuk	anyone would think you had one already	18:43
Noobmonk3y	;)	18:43
lcuk	hey Noobmonk3y I met frals last week and contrary to popular beileve, he does not carry a quick release trout in a scabbard	18:43
Noobmonk3y	omg! and yay!!! - he came to the UK, or was this the meego convention thingy?	18:44
lardman	what about a pike?	18:44
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, helsinki meego meetup	18:44
Noobmonk3y	luck - if he showed you his hidden trout supply, he would then have to kill u!	18:44
lcuk	lardman, that would fit better I assume	18:44
Noobmonk3y	omg - havnt been to sinki in 10+ years!	18:44
Noobmonk3y	brb	18:45
lcuk	\o	18:45
* lardman wonders if Noobmonk3y has a teleporter		18:45
lcuk	so lardman what goes better with chicken, red or white?	18:46
Noobmonk3y	white :P	18:47
lardman	yeah	18:47
lardman	though I'll drink red with anything	18:47
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Noobmonk3y	unless you cook chicken + bacon, and then a fruity red :P	18:47
food_noob_lcuk	heh	18:47
mikki-kun	doesn't it partially depend on what sauce you are having for chicken?	18:47
lardman	yeah, with a strong sauce a more robust red might be applicable	18:47
food_noob_lcuk	found out mcdonalds do a BIG BACON	18:47
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kerio	MORE BACON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!	18:48
MohammadAG	hmm	18:48
MohammadAG	my HP laptop has some accelerometer process in windows	18:48
MohammadAG	I wonder if it has an accelerometer :O	18:48
* lcuk shall let hosts select fine wines to go with dinner :)		18:48
kerio	lcuk: MORE BACON DAMMIT	18:49
lcuk	MohammadAG, dont most laptops have accelerometer nowadays?	18:49
lcuk	even if the tech is in the harddrive	18:49
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lcuk	even my old x41 has one	18:49
* SpeedEvil ponders putting an accel and gyro and magno in laptop.		18:49
SpeedEvil	Probably silly.	18:50
lcuk	SpeedEvil, in a normal laptop its a bit wasteful	18:50
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lcuk	but in a slate its more practical	18:50
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MohammadAG	hmm, /sys/module/hp_accel	18:51
MohammadAG	'HP accelerometer: free fall detection working, testers wanted' - MARC LOL	18:51
lcuk	haha	18:51
lcuk	n900fly	18:51
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Noobmonk3y	lol	18:52
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pupnik	some days all i eat is ramen and popcorn	18:55
pupnik	that can't be good	18:55
Pillum	where is /usr/local located in the scratchbox?	18:55
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lcuk	pupnik, some days I eat rice only	18:56
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RST38h	as long as you both eat daily...	18:56
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Pillum	ah got it	18:56
MohammadAG	is there a way to get the number of a SIM card, without dialing anything?	18:56
jacekowski	no	18:57
jacekowski	number isn't stored on sim card	18:57
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: yes.	18:58
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SpeedEvil	lcuk: It's just I'm about to be ordering the accel/gyro for the n900	18:58
SpeedEvil	lcuk: And I have schematics for my x60s, and am taking it apart anyway to fix the case.	18:59
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Pillum	when try to run ppu-gcc i get this: bash: /usr/local/ps3dev/ppu/bin/ppu-gcc: No such file or directory	19:03
Pillum	it is in the path	19:03
Pillum	btw. im running this on scratchbox	19:03
Pillum	without scratchbox it runs fine	19:03
Pillum	changing to that dir manually doesnt help either	19:04
MohammadAG	jacekowski, yeah, I know it's assigned at the operator	19:04
MohammadAG	jacekowski, is there a way to get the number with fixed dialing active?	19:04
Pillum	fixed dialing?	19:05
MohammadAG	Pillum, umm, compiling the bins for PSFreedom should be done OUTSIDE scratchbox	19:05
Pillum	MohammadAG: just following this guide: http://psfreedom.com/wiki/Nokia_N900#Compile_using_kernel-power_.28titan.27s.29_maemo_kernel	19:05
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Pillum	latest psfreedom compiled for power kernel if someone needs it	19:19
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Noobmonk3y	bloody hell Nokia QT SDK takes aaaages to install!	19:37
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, installed in 5 minutes here	19:43
Noobmonk3y	meh -	19:43
MohammadAG	and I have to say it's awesome	19:43
Noobmonk3y	almost 1 hour 45 mins here so far, at 61%	19:43
MohammadAG	except for the madde bit where it removes any packages with the existing name	19:43
Noobmonk3y	ooo 63%	19:43
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lcuk	RevdKathy, how is your Sunday going thusfar?	19:45
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RST38h	Fun, fun: http://gizmodo.com/5665968/massive-outage-nukes-older-peek-devices	19:53
RST38h	And you, people, complain about N900 sending a single SMS to Nokia...	19:53
Noobmonk3y	you people?	19:53
Noobmonk3y	or you, people even...	19:53
Noobmonk3y	lol	19:53
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Noobmonk3y	meh, sdk installer stuck at 63%	19:54
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Noobmonk3y	"Downloading archive for component Madde Qt 4.6.2" - meh	19:58
Noobmonk3y	oo jumped 1% in 15 mins :\|	20:01
RST38h	Noob: Accept that it doesn't like you, terminate, restart	20:03
Noobmonk3y	meh meh meh meh	20:05
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MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, downloading?	20:07
MohammadAG	I used the offline installer haha	20:07
Noobmonk3y	oh	20:07
Noobmonk3y	i used what it gave me	20:07
Noobmonk3y	ahhh, at 75% now	20:08
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steinex	r	20:19
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DocScrutinizer	~hostmode	20:35
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, hostmode is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197	20:35
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alterego	Hrm, I reflashed eMMC and rootfs the otherday and now Ovi store isn't working, anyone know why?	20:44
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Noobmonk3y	alterego: ovi store not working, sounds like a fix to me ;)	20:45
Surfa	well, you'd miss couple of good apps and games	20:45
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alterego	Yeah, I wanna download some stuff I bought :P	20:46
alterego	Some stuff I bought that I've not backed up ;)	20:46
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Noobmonk3y	ahhhhhhhhhhhh	20:46
Noobmonk3y	whats the error?	20:47
alterego	Takes me to the maemo ovi page	20:47
alterego	Which says update the software O_o	20:47
alterego	I remmeber this being a known issue with some users a while ago.	20:47
Noobmonk3y	hmmmm, have seen it before bu i'm a bit rusty, you need some brains like MohammadAG or lcuk to assist :)	20:48
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alterego	This is basically the issue: http://www.lookatbowen.com/2010/06/how-to-avoid-ovi-store-not-working-on-n900	20:49
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lcuk	my brain is offline this weekend	20:49
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Noobmonk3y	94% GOOOOOOOOOOO AWWWWWWWWWWWWWN installer!	20:50
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alterego	Oh, hahah	20:50
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MohammadAG	alterego, osso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION="RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.19-1_PR_MR0"	20:50
alterego	I forgot I installed that ^.^	20:50
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Noobmonk3y	lol	20:51
* Noobmonk3y knew that mo had some hidden braininess somewhere :)		20:51
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alterego	Seems after I installed that user agent switcher it screwed it up.	20:53
alterego	Figures. :)	20:53
MohammadAG	lol Noobmonk3y	20:53
MohammadAG	it's the command I use in the SSU package	20:53
MohammadAG	so ovi doesn't break	20:53
Noobmonk3y	;)	20:53
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, rewrite healthcheck in C++/Qt :)	20:54
lcuk	rewrite it in asm/qt	20:54
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: as soon as it actually installs i might get round to it! had today free! but spent most of it looking at this darn installer!	20:55
MohammadAG	lcuk, rewrite liqbase in whitespace	20:55
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: i agree, lcuk should do that	20:55
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, should've downloaded the offline installer lol	20:55
Noobmonk3y	the weird thing, he probably could lol	20:55
MohammadAG	900MBs, but it installs in 5 minutes	20:55
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: i should have got a better tinterweb connection	20:55
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MohammadAG	it might be bad, but mine isn't better lol	20:56
MohammadAG	I finally found a freenode server that doesn't lag	20:56
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Noobmonk3y	lol!	20:56
lcuk	MohammadAG, Noobmonk3y - whitespace is a tricky language, but I can write native brainf*ck and transliterate into whitespace code if you like	20:59
Noobmonk3y	hahaha :P :)	21:00
MohammadAG	lcuk, fine by me, I'll shit bricks when I see the binary	21:00
Noobmonk3y	w0000p 96%!	21:00
kerio	braincopter is way better	21:00
lcuk	brainf*ck is fairly logical, afaik its turing complete too	21:01
kerio	malbolge is turing complete too, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it	21:01
lcuk	reasonable	21:01
SpeedEvil	piet is also turing complete.	21:01
lcuk	but seeing as if github thinks liqbase playground is already written in visual basic, I don't suppose brainf*ck is much more difficult :P	21:02
kerio	braincopter is better than piet	21:02
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SpeedEvil	Piet and liqbase would seem to go together.	21:02
* lcuk should get his visual basic -> liq* generating qt projects someday		21:02
kerio	i know of a guy working on a c2bf converter	21:02
lcuk	SpeedEvil, :D	21:02
lcuk	kerio, thats easy	21:02
lcuk	try perl2bf	21:02
lcuk	kerio -> for c, get gcc to generate asm, then generate bf direct from the asm	21:03
kerio	lcuk: pypy to c to asm to bf!	21:03
lcuk	now we are talking!	21:03
* Noobmonk3y actually did some assembly language last week and was proud i remembered it :)		21:03
* MohammadAG loves it when this channel goes off topic		21:04
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: there is a topic? shit!	21:04
MohammadAG	doesn't happen a lot in #ubuntu :P	21:04
* SpeedEvil has been on-an-off coding a bitsliced GPS correlator.		21:04
SpeedEvil	Bitslicing is fun.	21:04
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, I'm not complaining	21:04
Noobmonk3y	yayyyyyyyyyyyy installinginging!	21:04
* MohammadAG also loves how some people haven't left the community		21:04
MohammadAG	momentum back in december was better	21:05
* Noobmonk3y is still here, most of the time! :P		21:05
Noobmonk3y	i'm still gonna try a healthcheck version that works on the n8, n900 etc	21:05
MohammadAG	I remember when I used to see lots of [Announce] threads	21:05
Noobmonk3y	just need other phones to test it on :P	21:05
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, impossible imo	21:05
Noobmonk3y	lol MohammadAG nothing is impossible, except world peace :P	21:05
MohammadAG	Symbian doesn't use /sys	21:05
MohammadAG	or /proc	21:06
MohammadAG	world peace is possible, just nuke all 7 continents	21:06
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Noobmonk3y	the penguins will revolt!	21:06
kerio	ATLANTIS PREVAILS!	21:06
lcuk	MohammadAG, [announce] threads come and advance as they do and people hack and work on stuff in fits and spurts	21:06
Noobmonk3y	penguins with frikkin lasers v atlantians... cool!	21:06
kerio	i still haven't tried pypy btw :<	21:06
Noobmonk3y	lcuk: more fits than spurts	21:06
lcuk	Noobmonk3y, :)	21:06
lcuk	its like buses	21:07
Noobmonk3y	hehe, RevdKathy - keeping v quiet :P	21:07
MohammadAG	lcuk, true, I just enjoyed it more when others were there to help	21:07
Jartza	\o/	21:07
lcuk	you wait a couple of weeks for an announce thread and you get 3 together at once :P	21:07
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Noobmonk3y	lcuk: better then taxi's - 30 come every 2 minutes and 29 try to rip you off :p	21:07
MohammadAG	qwerty12 was a huge loss tbh :(	21:07
RevdKathy	Didn't think anyone had noticed I was here!	21:07
Noobmonk3y	hmmm, i agree MohammadAG ,	21:07
Noobmonk3y	RevdKathy: how could we not notice? :)	21:07
* lcuk noticed		21:07
MohammadAG	heya RevdKathy	21:07
Jartza	I'm going to become nokia certified trainer \o/	21:07
lcuk	i even spoke to you	21:08
* MohammadAG too		21:08
Noobmonk3y	lcuk actually said hi to you earlier ;)	21:08
MohammadAG	lol	21:08
* Noobmonk3y needs a new job		21:08
Noobmonk3y	anyone got any jobs going?	21:08
lcuk	Jartza, :D nice	21:08
RevdKathy	You did? Not in red - I'd have noticed!	21:08
Noobmonk3y	RevdKathy: lol...	21:08
DocScrutinizer	RevdKathy: o/	21:08
* MohammadAG pries off Noobmonk3y's X button		21:08
RevdKathy	LOL brains slowly atrophying, I think	21:08
MohammadAG	just in case the missus is talking to you while you're IRCing	21:08
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RevdKathy	Evening one and all properly, then.	21:08
Noobmonk3y	hahaha	21:08
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: she's back in 30 mins	21:08
Jartza	it doesn't change that much, except I can finally use something as a reference	21:09
Jartza	:D	21:09
* MohammadAG puts Noobmonk3y's X button back where it belongs		21:09
lcuk	RevdKathy, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-17.log.html#t2010-10-17T19:45:21	21:09
Jartza	all the other commitments or tasks are under NDA, so can't tell :D	21:09
MohammadAG	next to the M button	21:09
lcuk	Jartza, whizbang	21:09
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Jartza	customers give me the funny eye always when I tell them that I'm competent but can't really show it because of NDA :)	21:11
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lcuk	Jartza, you are telling them wrong	21:11
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lcuk	"I can offer oyu a brief overview of my work, but unfortunately I must remove your eyeballs after"	21:11
RevdKathy	Ah you may have spoken to me when my n900 accidentally signed me in and I hadn't noticed?	21:11
lcuk	idk	21:11
Jartza	lcuk: :)	21:11
lcuk	Jartza, you could offer other alternatives for people who wish to remove specific pieces of bodywork	21:12
lcuk	luke was talking about the extra weight his front brakes on his bmx added, so he removed them	21:12
Jartza	hmm. there's an idea	21:12
lcuk	following this through to its natural conclusion, he will be doing stunts on a unicycle soon	21:13
Jartza	I can tell you. it only costs a tongue.	21:13
lcuk	tongues are important	21:13
Jartza	so are brakes? :)	21:14
RST38h	wheels are unimportant	21:14
* RevdKathy remembers reading"The Little Mermaid" as a child and being terrified		21:14
RST38h	they are in you head	21:14
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lcuk	he launches himself over big ramps and quarterpipes, I think the brakes just give him a way to bail out!	21:14
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f0rkb0mb	anyone else got airodump-ng on the n900 running, and has the problem that channel hopping doesnt work ? it always sticks to channel 1	21:15
MohammadAG	you can't get it to work on the stock kernel	21:17
f0rkb0mb	well it works for channel 1	21:18
MohammadAG	monitor mode needs kernel-power	21:19
_trine	DocScrutinizer, would you happen to know why when I run petrovich from cli it gives this error ?	21:19
MohammadAG	injection needs neopwn's kernels	21:19
_trine	http://dpaste.com/259293/	21:19
f0rkb0mb	i dont want injection, i just want the promisc mode	21:19
f0rkb0mb	for all channels not just for ch1	21:20
Myrtti	pppplllläääääääähhh.	21:20
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DocScrutinizer	_trine: no idea. But aiui petrovich is obsolete as HFM has obex sharing over BT now	21:28
tobis87	f0rkb0mb: The monitor patch applied to the wireless module, compiled for the stock kernel; http://www.mediafire.com/?ydy49ndggnty846	21:29
f0rkb0mb	thank, will have a look	21:30
_trine	DocScrutinizer, can you be more explicit because I dont know what HFM is but I could guess Hildon file something	21:30
DocScrutinizer	hildon file manager	21:31
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DocScrutinizer	aka File Manager	21:31
_trine	where is that on the n900	21:31
_trine	ah	21:31
_trine	you answered	21:31
* MohammadAG prefers filebox		21:32
_trine	I have seen HFM but to be honest it looks very messy	21:32
MohammadAG	hildon-fm lags a lot	21:32
_trine	I have filebox and that is much better	21:32
_trine	but petrovich was nice in its simplicity	21:33
tobis87	f0rkb0mb: Backup the wl12xx.ko kernel module, copy the new, run depmod -ae and reboot it. Conky should then display the connection rate correctly.	21:33
tobis87	and monitor should worl	21:33
slonopotamus	n910?	21:34
_trine	has neopwn not gone public yet	21:34
f0rkb0mb	kk	21:34
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_trine	MohammadAG, do you know if neopwn has gone public like they promised ?	21:35
tobis87	I would be interested, what changes have been made for the neopwn kernel.	21:35
_trine	tobis87, it was just the wifi drivers as far as I know that were needed	21:37
tobis87	Because loading the hacked neopwn modules (vermagic modified and __versions striped) into the stock kernel forces a reboot.	21:37
_trine	although there was a modified kernel	21:37
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_trine	but the modified kernel was not part of neopwn	21:38
MohammadAG	_trine, no, he didn't	21:38
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MohammadAG	the modified kernel is all that's needed	21:38
_trine	MohammadAG, I dont understand how he can get away with that	21:38
MohammadAG	_trine, ping swc\|666 when he's here	21:39
_trine	will the injection work without the new drivers	21:39
MohammadAG	~seen swc\|666	21:39
infobot	swc\|666 <~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 16d 9h 41m 35s ago, saying: 'chmod -x $(which banshee) .. j/k'.	21:39
_trine	MohammadAG, where does he fit into this ?	21:39
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_trine	I'm absolutly surprised there has not been a torrent for it	21:40
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* MohammadAG strips infobot's reply		21:40
MohammadAG	swc\|666 <~neopwn@unaffiliated/swc666/x-4934821>	21:41
MohammadAG	swc\|666 <~neopwn	21:41
* Noobmonk3y blinks		21:41
_trine	well he should be asked why its not public AS PROMISED	21:41
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D-Iivil	Is it possible to build Qt apps on the device (n900)?	21:42
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D-Iivil	I'm away from pc, but have the sources and would like to compile it and try it out.	21:42
D-Iivil	Installing libqt4-dev and then running qmake project.pro gives error:	21:43
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pupnik	"I think shyness is a myth, ppl dont drink to be less shy around girls, they drink because sober they know better than to get involved with them." -kermit	21:44
MohammadAG	D-Iivil, no gcc	21:44
D-Iivil	/usr/bin/qmake: line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpected	21:44
tobis87	I could use the drivers with injection, but only if I also flash a kernel which was modified and I don't know what was changed. I also don't have the kernel headers for this kernel. Therefore I stay with the monitor "only" patched driver and wait until it has been reverse engineered, if ever.	21:44
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_trine	perhaps in the interests of justice it should be pirated	21:45
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, no gcc? Like no go?	21:45
MohammadAG	gcc = compiler	21:45
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MohammadAG	libqt4-dev = headers	21:45
MohammadAG	you need both	21:45
johnsq	Hi	21:45
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MohammadAG	lcuk, got gcc on his N900, but it takes a huge space in /	21:46
D-Iivil	ok. Thanks for clearing that out :)	21:47
D-Iivil	So there's no relatively easy way to compile qt apps on device?	21:47
* D-Iivil is sick of remote desktopping to pc over gsm...		21:48
lcuk	yes MohammadAG	21:48
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lcuk	build-essential should be run through and optified, but the sdk components are not geared for on device so theres no official reason to request the change	21:48
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lcuk	it would be nice too though :)	21:49
MohammadAG	D-Iivil, other than a chroot, no	21:50
D-Iivil	How about installing the whole scratchbox to device?	21:50
MohammadAG	lcuk, agreed	21:50
MohammadAG	chroot	21:50
D-Iivil	I mean if it's possible to run easy debian...	21:50
MohammadAG	scratchbox is a cross compiler, when compiling on the N900 you're natively compiling it	21:51
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, give me something to google for please :)	21:51
MohammadAG	qole got an image	21:51
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG, chroot gives way too many hits :P	21:51
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MohammadAG	D-Iivil, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=786521&postcount=3	21:52
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D-Iivil	MohammadAG, thx!	21:53
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MohammadAG	* D-Iivil has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)	22:01
MohammadAG	he probably started extracting the image lol	22:01
* MohammadAG watches as dd rapes his N900		22:01
MohammadAG	it's not responding to anything	22:01
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pupnik	MohammadAG: yeah that's not the friendliest command to use	22:02
MohammadAG	pupnik, I know, I was just too lazy to enable mass storage	22:02
pupnik	try various block-sizes	22:02
pupnik	i never got around to benchmarking that	22:02
MohammadAG	dd if=/dev/zero of=/home/user/MyDocs/maemo-sdk-v1_2.img.ext2 count=2097152	22:02
pupnik	i also suspect maybe there's a lower level prefetch	22:02
pupnik	bs=....	22:03
MohammadAG	I wonder what the load is	22:03
pupnik	but i think the system slowdown comes from something at kernel level	22:03
MohammadAG	not responding to ssh	22:03
pupnik	right	22:03
MohammadAG	Load average: 14.20 10.61 5.	22:03
pupnik	maybe someone smart knows more	22:04
ShadowJK	It's IO contention	22:05
ShadowJK	the mmc doesn't multitask	22:05
ShadowJK	And the kernel is trying to make it do that	22:06
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, so it's a kernel bug	22:06
pupnik	ty ShadowJK	22:08
MohammadAG	something that can probably be fixed	22:09
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ShadowJK	It's more of a missing feature thing	22:12
ShadowJK	But a workaround is to set swappiness to 1 before doing any heavy IO	22:13
MohammadAG	too late I guess	22:14
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pupnik	aha!	22:18
dreamer	hey, anyone here can open the player on thedailyshow.com?	22:20
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summel	whats with the recent strange entries on planet maemo?	22:29
* MohammadAG pings Jaffa		22:31
summel	who is roger sperberg?	22:31
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, I got the chrooted sdk running fine and installing Nokia binaries atm. Just one question; how can I copy my stuff located under MyDocs to chrooted sdk for compiling?	22:32
MohammadAG	mount it and use cp :P	22:33
D-Iivil	MohammadAG, mount which and from where? :) I know I have to mount, but what and how?	22:33
MohammadAG	where did you mount it to install nokia-binaries	22:34
D-Iivil	"/sdk	22:34
D-Iivil	qchroot image /sdk	22:34
D-Iivil	If that's what you asked...	22:35
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: QT Designer error on run? - hmod: /usr/local/bin/Healthcheck: No such file or directory	22:40
Noobmonk3y	meh	22:40
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lcuk	Noobmonk3y, so I guess that means you need to refine the tests :P	22:41
Noobmonk3y	lol trying to run something on my device, i think:P	22:44
Noobmonk3y	it can communicate with the n900 - but assuming not copying the files	22:44
MohammadAG	install madde on your device	22:47
Noobmonk3y	have done	22:47
Noobmonk3y	but using root to install, when i try the developer user + generated password it doesnt connect	22:47
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alterego	I'm guessing your program is called Healthcheck?	22:48
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RevdKathy	Saying Goodnight folks.	22:50
RevdKathy	Lcuk - I'll email in the morning	22:51
RevdKathy	Night all!	22:51
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Noobmonk3y	hehe yeah alterego	22:52
Noobmonk3y	just gonna try and redesign it	22:52
Noobmonk3y	using qt designer	22:52
alterego	Have you checked it's there?	22:52
Noobmonk3y	the current one is pyqt	22:53
alterego	Under /usr/local/bin ?	22:53
Noobmonk3y	well, nope it isnt :p	22:53
Noobmonk3y	i assumed it would copy it	22:53
alterego	Okay, so it's not on run, it's on deploy.	22:53
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alterego	Deploy is done with dpkg at the moment.	22:53
Noobmonk3y	sorry my first time using qt designer	22:53
Noobmonk3y	oh, so cant do it in qt deisgner?	22:53
Noobmonk3y	designer?	22:53
alterego	I think the problem is the fact you can't get it to work with the developer user account	22:53
Noobmonk3y	will try again	22:54
alterego	Because sudo dpkg as root doesn't work, I'm guessing.	22:54
alterego	What you wanna do is get it to work using mad-developer on the device and integrated with Qt Creator, then deploy an SSH key and you shouldn't have the authentication problem again.	22:55
Noobmonk3y	ahhhhhh it makes sense in a foreign kinda way lol!	22:56
alterego	:)	22:56
Noobmonk3y	so i need to figure out how to get the ssh key bit across first i assume?	22:56
alterego	Well, Qt Creator has a deploy ssh key feature	22:56
alterego	But you need to get it to work with a password first.	22:57
alterego	You can however do it manually yourself.	22:57
MohammadAG	don't use Qt Designer alone	22:57
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MohammadAG	use it inside Qt Creator	22:57
Noobmonk3y	i'm in qtcreator	22:57
alterego	MohammadAG: I don't think he is, I think he's just confused.	22:57
Noobmonk3y	yup	22:58
* Noobmonk3y = confused		22:58
alterego	:)	22:58
alterego	Would you like me to walk you through setting up an N900 with Qt Creator?	22:58
Noobmonk3y	awww you are great if you have a spare few mins that would be cool! :)	22:58
Noobmonk3y	got mad developer running on the n900 - so done the basics i think	22:59
alterego	Okay, start Qt Creator then	22:59
Noobmonk3y	done!	22:59
alterego	Are you running on Windows btw?	22:59
Noobmonk3y	win 7	22:59
alterego	Oh, hrm ..	22:59
Noobmonk3y	hehe	22:59
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* Noobmonk3y = pain in the ass		22:59
alterego	This should all still work the same, I would have thought, but I've not used Win 7 + maemo	23:00
alterego	Do you have putty?	23:00
Noobmonk3y	cool! - well this may be a first	23:00
Noobmonk3y	nope but i can do, i have winscp	23:00
alterego	Well, that'll do actually ;)	23:00
Noobmonk3y	(and it connects!) lol	23:01
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alterego	I want you to try connecting to the N900 via usb networking using the developer user account and the password it says in mad-developer	23:02
alterego	Or are you using wifi or something?	23:03
Noobmonk3y	oh, usb? pooooooo!	23:03
Noobmonk3y	using wifi :P	23:03
Noobmonk3y	it connects fine though :)	23:03
alterego	Okay, using wifi then :)	23:03
Noobmonk3y	will try the madde one though	23:03
Noobmonk3y	2 secs	23:03
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Noobmonk3y	yup connects fine	23:04
alterego	Okay, in Qt Creator, go Tools->Options->Projects->Maemo Device Configurations	23:05
Noobmonk3y	done	23:05
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Noobmonk3y	got one pre-setup (as much as i can)	23:05
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alterego	So you've entered the correct IP address?	23:05
Noobmonk3y	yup	23:05
alterego	And username and password?	23:05
Noobmonk3y	just double checked	23:05
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alterego	Okay, click Test then	23:06
Noobmonk3y	yup	23:06
Noobmonk3y	ooooooooo	23:06
alterego	What does it say?	23:06
Noobmonk3y	working now!	23:06
Noobmonk3y	how random!	23:06
Noobmonk3y	test works	23:06
alterego	Okay, well close mad-developer	23:06
Noobmonk3y	done	23:07
alterego	You shouldn't need to run that any more	23:07
Noobmonk3y	cool!	23:07
alterego	And everything else should be working fine now	23:07
alterego	As you're using windows, don't bother setting up a key because I don't know how that works under windows.	23:07
Noobmonk3y	hmmmm - when you close madde developer though it looses the password	23:07
alterego	Ah	23:07
Noobmonk3y	so i have to use a key?	23:08
alterego	Okay, close mad-developer	23:08
Noobmonk3y	done	23:08
alterego	and as root on the N900 type: passwd developer	23:08
Noobmonk3y	oo clever!	23:08
alterego	And enter in that password again.	23:08
Noobmonk3y	Cool thats done	23:09
Noobmonk3y	although..........	23:09
alterego	Anyhow, provided you dont run mad-developer again that should all stay persistant.	23:09
Noobmonk3y	i'm assuming 'run' doesnt just work, as it keeps saying cant connect	23:09
Noobmonk3y	yet test works fine	23:09
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alterego	Hrm ..	23:09
Noobmonk3y	oooo	23:10
Noobmonk3y	maybe not	23:10
alterego	;)	23:10
Noobmonk3y	(Reading database ... Finished running remote process.	23:10
Noobmonk3y	but nothing on the deviec :P	23:10
Noobmonk3y	device*	23:10
alterego	Give it a bit	23:10
Noobmonk3y	lol	23:10
alterego	Can take some time, that's it using dpkg	23:11
Noobmonk3y	okey dokey!	23:11
alterego	Well, shouldn't take this long.	23:11
Noobmonk3y	processor doesnt look to be doing much, will try again	23:11
alterego	Try killing that and doing it agagin	23:11
Noobmonk3y	chmod: /usr/local/bin/Healthcheck: No such file or directory	23:11
Noobmonk3y	:p	23:11
alterego	Interesting	23:11
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Noobmonk3y	sorry missed that b4, but thats the error	23:12
MohammadAG	fail xD	23:12
Noobmonk3y	but just checked test, working fine	23:12
MohammadAG	what did it install then	23:12
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: .... yup :(	23:12
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: boobies	23:12
MohammadAG	nice	23:12
alterego	Yeah would like to see that deb	23:12
Noobmonk3y	:P	23:12
MohammadAG	boobies_0.0.1.deb	23:12
alterego	What does this app actually do? Is it just a "hello, world" type thing right now?	23:13
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Noobmonk3y	alterego: pretty much, just the windows with no major code	23:13
Noobmonk3y	8008135.deb you mean?	23:14
MohammadAG	I think that's how it names shit	23:14
Noobmonk3y	lol	23:14
alterego	Well, I've got to run now, if you catch me or Venemo tomorrow one of us can help you	23:15
alterego	I'd recommend having a look at the contents of the generated .deb file.	23:15
Noobmonk3y	darn it	23:15
alterego	It'll be in your project-build directory and on the device in /home/developer	23:15
Noobmonk3y	sounds geeky	23:15
evil\|Jonne	umm, wtf happened to planet maemo?	23:15
Noobmonk3y	thank you alterego :)	23:15
Noobmonk3y	very appreciated :)	23:15
* MohammadAG pings GeneralAntilles / GAN900 and Jaffa		23:15
alterego	evil\|Jonne: working fine for me.	23:15
* Noobmonk3y pongs MohammadAG		23:15
evil\|Jonne	seems like some blog got added that doesn't really add any useful content	23:16
MohammadAG	alterego, i think it's getting spammed	23:16
alterego	Oh, I see	23:16
MohammadAG	can someone take a macro pic of the N900's top with the battery removed?	23:17
MohammadAG	please?	23:17
Noobmonk3y	alterego: i know the problem!	23:17
evil\|Jonne	if n900guide.com doesn't get removed i'll just unsubscribe	23:17
Noobmonk3y	dpkg - warning: downgrading healthcheck from 1.2.1-3 to 0.0.1.	23:17
alterego	Noobmonk3y: ?	23:17
alterego	Oh, hahah	23:17
Noobmonk3y	my app is the current version!	23:17
alterego	That might be it.	23:17
Noobmonk3y	lol	23:17
Noobmonk3y	maybe change the name? lol! or uninstall hc?	23:17
alterego	bbl	23:17
Noobmonk3y	cheers	23:18
alterego	Yeah, change the name until you've got something you want.	23:18
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, should downgrade	23:18
Noobmonk3y	should bu tdoesnt	23:18
MohammadAG	it downgraded here	23:18
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Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOHAUvbuV4o	23:19
Noobmonk3y	its genius when adverts are better than tv!	23:19
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MohammadAG	ARGH	23:22
MohammadAG	flash player crashed	23:22
Noobmonk3y	lol!	23:22
* MohammadAG loads again		23:22
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MohammadAG	lol Noobmonk3y	23:23
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Noobmonk3y	:) :)	23:23
* Noobmonk3y likes		23:23
MohammadAG	no offense, but the gal's english accent doesn't fit in rap :P	23:24
Noobmonk3y	not at all - but neitehr do the others!	23:24
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MohammadAG	LOL @ owl	23:24
MohammadAG	english accents in rap don't sound proper :P	23:25
MohammadAG	the rest are cool	23:25
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MohammadAG	but the ad is epic xD	23:25
Noobmonk3y	MohammadAG: west country doesnt sound right normally lol	23:25
Noobmonk3y	i think the idea is to not sound cool + but be cool randomly!	23:26
MohammadAG	Noobmonk3y, check PM :P	23:26
Noobmonk3y	Starting remote application.	23:26
Noobmonk3y	Selecting previously deselected package healthcheck.	23:26
Noobmonk3y	(Reading database ... Finished running remote process.	23:26
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: pong	23:51
MohammadAG	Jaffa, a lot of people have been complaining about Planet Maemo	23:52
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kpoman	hi all !	23:52
Jaffa	MohammadAG: "A lot"?	23:52
kpoman	anyone any ideas about usb host mode on the Nokia N900 ?	23:52
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Presumably because of old posts showing up in RogerS' feed?	23:53
timeless_mbp	anyone here have experience using the n900's IR port?	23:53
timeless_mbp	i have a remote - DVR combo which isn't working	23:53
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timeless_mbp	i'm wondering if it's possible to try to send commands to my DVR w/ an n900	23:53
MohammadAG	Jaffa, yes	23:53
kpoman	anyone ?	23:54
Myrtti	cheesecake?	23:54
Jaffa	MohammadAG: Seems to have stopped. Send him a polite email and vote them down. Latter's already been done, I see.	23:54
kpoman	Myrtti: to me ?	23:55
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Myrtti	to everyone, I'm feeling somewhat indifferent right now	23:55
MohammadAG	Jaffa, I'm not subscribed to planet maemo, I just pinged you cause two users complained here	23:55
f0rkb0mb	timeless_mbp try irreco	23:55
Jaffa	MohammadAG: OK, ta.	23:56
kpoman	ok nm	23:56
kpoman	I do see this: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host	23:56
kpoman	anyone any ideas ?	23:56
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kpoman	or experience ?	23:56
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Myrtti	that just threw me off to Old Spice -mode	23:56
Jaffa	MohammadAG: TBH, I'm not bothered; it's not like the feed is overflowing with stuff - and a lot of people would say it's the raw feed and you're "supposed" to subscribe to /news/ instead.	23:56
Myrtti	"see this, this is diamonds on my hand, see again, now they've turned into that phone you love"	23:57
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Jaffa	MohammadAG: But thanks for the headsup	23:57
* Jaffa is not well inclined towards people complaining due to someone arguing about a sponsorship decision for the conference, saying "my karma's not being calculated properly due to a known bug" and then points at something been RESOLVED FIXED for months.		23:58
Jaffa	So I'm going to bed :-)	23:58

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