| Venemo | fcrochik: on IRC, for one | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| alterego | Yeah, if you want votes you need to ask people to do it, on tmo or here, blog about it, ask mates :) | 00:00 |
| pupnik | pretty frustrating to spend your time on this rather than coding eh fcrochik | 00:00 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: is is always an option but I still thing that the process can be improved... I don't want to have to bug people all the time.... I still think the best idea would be to integrate appdownloaded+fap!!! :) | 00:01 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: well I don't use fap... :) | 00:01 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: I don't necessary mean FAP... just having an application manager that includes rating, reminders (and wouldn't hurt to be a little quicker).... I think the FAP interface could use some TLC but it works pretty good... what don't you like about it? | 00:03 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: about fap? | 00:03 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: yes | 00:03 |
| pupnik | fcrochik: you're right that the voting should be doable from an app | 00:03 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I dunno, probably the attitude of the author | 00:03 |
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| fcrochik | I don't know who the author is.... | 00:04 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I don't recall it either, but I talked to him on TMO | 00:04 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I asked him if he would contribute to HAM the way he made fap faster | 00:05 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I don't blame you...from time to time I also want to just give up on the whole thing... You spend your time and then have to hear some very silly things | 00:05 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I remember reading this post (didn't remember was yours). | 00:06 |
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| Jaffa | fcrochik: appdownloader has exactly those features. | 00:06 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: well, I don't blame him, HAM's code is a big mess. But it would be the right thing to do to fix that one app with community effort instead of every guy and his dog making his own app manager | 00:06 |
| * Jaffa needs to find the fapman author (or source) and see if it prefers -devel over other repos with the same binary | 00:07 | |
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| fcrochik | Jaffa: oh yeah! I love it (appdownloader)... a few minor tweaks, being able to install software and being able to access extras-testing, an automatic reminder like "you installed XXX one week ago would you like to rate it" and we would have a winner for me | 00:08 |
| nidO | tried kisstester? | 00:09 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I know what you mean but I need to give him some credit because I would not know where to start with the hildon app manager... Qt was my way to get into linux | 00:09 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: for me too :) | 00:09 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: that's why I said I don't really blame him | 00:10 |
| fcrochik | nidO: Yes. And I think is great idea... but again it is one more tool! I, and assume everybody else, would prefer to have one single tool to deal with packages.... I hate that my packages get stuck so from time to time I try to vote for the applications I know that are seating there... but just the fact that I need to remember to go ther does not help.... | 00:11 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: btw, I never got the chance to congratulate you for the app dev competition :) | 00:12 |
| dRbiG | and i still kinda don't like Qt | 00:12 |
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| nidO | fcrochik - I think half the problem with mycontacts is probably that it's in non-free, I imagine a lot of people testing only tend to look at free as traditionally there've hardly been any packages go through wityh no source | 00:12 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: congratulations to you too! Of course we never had a chance for the first place :( | 00:13 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: yeah | 00:13 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: QBW is a win... sorta swiss army knife | 00:13 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: why I uninstalled MyContacts is because it is incompatible with ringtoned (not sure whether you fixed that yet) | 00:13 |
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| fcrochik | nidO: I could start the discussion about the non-free x free but the truth is that I just started it as non-free because didn't have time to fight the autobuilder.... | 00:14 |
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| fcrochik | nidO: Of course I would not mind one day finding a way to pay my bills writing maemo software! | 00:16 |
| nidO | well its not a debate so much on the rights and wrongs of free v non-free, its purely that the QA list can be viewed either as everything, free, or nonfree, and I imagine most people just tend to look at the free list only | 00:16 |
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| Jaffa | fcrochik: Well, some people would argue that if you can't spare the time to help the community to provide source (because one day you *will* be gone), why should they spend their time helping test your app? | 00:16 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: back to the previous subject, I did download and look at HAM's code, and it is indeed utter crap | 00:17 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I think there's place for some optimalizations though | 00:17 |
| fcrochik | Jaffa: I would hope that by now people realize that I am willing to help the community... and even more that mycontacts free or non-free helps the community every day | 00:17 |
| lcuk | fcrochik, whats your app again? | 00:18 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, his app is MyContacts | 00:18 |
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| Venemo | hm | 00:19 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I have to wonder if is worth fixing it just because was the original one... I have to say that I would much rather invest time on a Qt based application ... if not because is what I can understand because unfortunately is the future | 00:19 |
| fcrochik | lcuk: mycontacts, wake on lan, macuco2, geeps... and I packaged libircclient-qt and communi this week | 00:20 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: on MeeGo perhaps. but MeeGo already has its own Qt-based (even more: MeeGo Touch based) app manager (I guess) | 00:20 |
| Venemo | hm | 00:21 |
| Venemo | what may be the cause of my N900's random reboots? | 00:21 |
| wmarone | what does /proc/bootreason say? | 00:22 |
| * wmarone rages at fedora | 00:22 | |
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| * SpeedEvil rages against the dying of the light. | 00:22 | |
| Venemo | wmarone: sw_rst | 00:22 |
| * SpeedEvil plugs the light back in. | 00:22 | |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I don't know that I believe that we will ever update our n900 to meego but if there is a way to benefit from meego is to backport qt applications to maemo... | 00:23 |
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| * cehteh isnt even sure if he wants to upgrade to 1.3 | 00:24 | |
| Venemo | fcrochik: well, this also brings up the question of deb vs rpm | 00:24 |
| cehteh | only a much improved modest would make me happy | 00:24 |
| nidO | improved = replaced* | 00:25 |
| Venemo | cehteh: did you check MohammadAG's community SSU repo? | 00:25 |
| cehteh | whatever, lets make it short: a working email client | 00:25 |
| cehteh | Venemo: i saied *much* :) | 00:25 |
| Venemo | cehteh: it has a newer modest, works quite nicely for me | 00:25 |
| cehteh | imap idle? .. subscriptions, threaded mails, notify only on selected folders? | 00:26 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: yes... I didn't say it would be easy :) but if we have the source code for a qt application we can create the package... Now that I was able to get the first applicatrion that I didn't create package I have more hope that is not that difficult :( | 00:26 |
| nidO | the fact that nokia intentionally disabled imap idle without simply making it a configurable option utterly baffles me | 00:26 |
| Venemo | cehteh: I don't think so... but it has a bunch of bug fixes | 00:26 |
| cehteh | well bug fixes comes next to usability :) | 00:27 |
| cehteh | currently its mostly unuseable to me, i dont even see bugs | 00:27 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: :) | 00:28 |
| Venemo | hm | 00:28 |
| Venemo | I dropped the N900 today (accidentally)... on concrete | 00:28 |
| Venemo | might that be related to the random rebooting thing? | 00:29 |
| cehteh | nidO: the underlying lib has some problems with power-saving and imap idle | 00:29 |
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| Venemo | it hasn't really done such a thing before, so I'm afraid | 00:29 |
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| cehteh | Venemo: there are no much moving parts, but the pcb might have a crack or some soldering came loose | 00:29 |
| cehteh | that would be really bad | 00:29 |
| nidO | cehteh: "it drains battery" isnt really a reason to prevent it from being selectable atall imo. there are countless ways of draining the device's battery faster than you can blink, I dont see why nokia chose to cripple the mail client in yet another way just to prevent one of them | 00:30 |
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| Venemo | cehteh: or it might be some other issue... a reflash is overdue anyways | 00:30 |
| Venemo | cehteh: I certainly hope for the latter | 00:31 |
| ieatlint | oh no, yahoo.com is down | 00:31 |
| cehteh | nidO: well yes, but implement it in a good way would be the solution | 00:31 |
| fcrochik | funny: out of the blue just saw a message "the email client closed unexpectedly" (or something to the same effect)... I was not even using the phone | 00:31 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: anyways, HAM could be made actually usable with a few clever modifications | 00:31 |
| nidO | ofc, thats ideal, and disabling it entirely is the worst solution really, with having it an option, despite being a power drain, being the obvious middle ground (to me at least) | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Nokia UI people hate options. | 00:32 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: but what about the features missing? I would assume we would not be able to combine it with appdownloader to get the comments, votes, thumbnails, ... | 00:32 |
| nidO | id rather be moaning that I have a functioning mail client but that means I have to recharge more often, than having a mail client I simply cant use for mail. | 00:32 |
| cehteh | well next comes that it notifies for each and every junk mail, my mail filter works fine sorting mails in about a dozen folders and i only want to be notifed when mail arrives on some few important folders | 00:33 |
| cehteh | modest is really made for people getting less than 5 mails per day | 00:33 |
| cehteh | (and no spam) | 00:33 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: what is appdownloader written in? | 00:34 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: Qt....that is why FAP+appdownloader makes sense... | 00:35 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: at least I think it is... :) | 00:35 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: haha! | 00:35 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: it isn't that hard :) | 00:35 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: what? | 00:36 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: did you know that Stiky Notes also calls GTK code? | 00:36 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: never had the pleasure to look under the hood :) | 00:36 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: of yourse it is not possible to embed Qt and GTK widgets into each other | 00:36 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: even if it is, I never bothered | 00:37 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I have some "foreign" objects on my code too but I can't say I like them.... | 00:37 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: but in fact, Qt and GTK windows can be made transient to each other | 00:37 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: in the end, both libs wrap Xlib, so no surprises there | 00:37 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: just the idea gives me the chills :) | 00:37 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: for example, the color and font selector dialogs, and also the about box of Sticky Notes are from Hildon-Extras | 00:38 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I have to say that I am too spoiled with c++ code.... just the very very GTK function names scares me :) | 00:38 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: yeah, I know what you mean :) :D | 00:38 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: that is why they work! I use the qt color dialog and it is just wrong! | 00:38 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: I wrote a Qt wrapper for Hildon-Extras for exactly this purpose | 00:39 |
| lcuk | there is more than one qt color dialog, be careful which you are mentioning (I think anyway..) | 00:39 |
| fcrochik | On this note: are we (maemo community) be able to update the qt packages by ourselves? | 00:39 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: you need to call a single method that returns a QColor... you can integrate it in less than 5 minutes | 00:40 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: [fremantle]: sticky-notes 0.3.0 OK -> thanks for your help again :) | 00:40 |
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| lcuk | fcrochik, technically if the ssu gets going, down the line after pr1.3 then its possible | 00:40 |
| fcrochik | lcuk: I think I am using the default one... at any rate is a known bug that was fixed... the problem is that we don't get new Qt libraries until PR1.3.... if ever....that is why I asked if we as a community can just generate new qt packages from the repository and replace the "old" ones... I dont think we can...can we? | 00:41 |
| lcuk | and afaik some of the qt packages may have specific meta packages to allow out of band updating anyway | 00:41 |
| fcrochik | lcuk: but qt packages are on the nokia repositories...arent they? | 00:42 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: glad to hear! | 00:42 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: see this doc: http://hildon-extras.garage.maemo.org/reference/current/hildon-extras-qt-he-wrapper.html#QtHeWrapper-showHeSimpleColorDialog | 00:42 |
| lcuk | fcrochik, look at how MohammadAG51 has been starting things like replacing hildon and modest builds, same principle applies | 00:42 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: cool! | 00:42 |
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| lcuk | fcrochik, since you can replace the kernel, I am guessing it should be possible to replace anything else too ;) | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | errr, I notice a statistically significant increase in mentioning of PR1.3 during last few days - what's the reason for this? | 00:43 |
| fcrochik | lcuk: yes... the truth is that we probably can just create parallel packages that replace the "official" ones... It is just how easy we make to the "end user"..... | 00:44 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I recommend HeSimpleColorDialog. It can also have an advanced mode in which the user can select an arbitrary color | 00:44 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: now that you have your library out there I may use it! The color dialog is a very small thing on mycontacts but I hate to know that it doesn't work | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still think: | 00:45 |
| lcuk | fcrochik, this issue is what requires resolving and why even though MohammadAG51 calls his repository the ssu one, its not yet - its merely bleeding edge. | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 00:45 |
| infobot | it has been said that pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... will probably be out in 1/0 days | 00:45 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: the color dialog is not in my library, it's in Q-Extras | 00:45 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: the color dialog is not in my library, it's in Hildon-Extras** | 00:45 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: sorry, typoed | 00:45 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: you may of course use my library too, if you want to :) | 00:46 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: I hope it works :) | 00:46 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: about Hildon-Extras, that will 100% work, as there are lots of professional people behind it | 00:46 |
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| asj_ | DocScrutinizer: I don't beleive that, they haven't, they haven't released the sdk and broken everything for 2 months yet | 00:48 |
| nidO | fcrochik: mycontacts has another vote now | 00:48 |
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| fcrochik | nidO: Thank you! Another...does it mean that it had one? | 00:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | asj_: exactly, so where from comes that sudden popularity for the term PR1.3?? | 00:49 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: is the hildon-extras just the 4 methods or is there more in it? | 00:49 |
| nidO | fcrochik: yeah, there was one from 3 days ago | 00:49 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: haha :) | 00:49 |
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| Venemo | fcrochik: http://wiki.maemo.org/Hildon-Extras | 00:49 |
| asj_ | DocScrutinizer: there was a blog post yesterday or the day before saying pr1.3 is almost here | 00:49 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: the 4 methods are the things that I wrote Qt wrappers for :) | 00:50 |
| Jaizuke | @MohammadAG : Hey you got a second? | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff | 00:50 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: it has a whole bunch of other Gtk/Hildon widgets too | 00:50 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: see the wiki page for pics | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't even bother to find the fist post saying same for PR1.2, seems it was 3 months before the japanese version came down on us | 00:51 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: cool! thank you for the tip! | 00:51 |
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| asj_ | even made engadget, but this started it: http://thenokiablog.com/2010/10/13/nokia-n900-pr13-dual-boot-meego/ afaik, mark guim who is the nokia blog...was just taking a few tidbits and making a store | 00:52 |
| asj_ | story | 00:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and then there were at least 2 false assumptions today in this very channel about what PR1.3 will bring us and that's the reason we can't stand it any longer to wait for it... :-/ MEH | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 00:54 |
| infobot | pr1.3 is, like, a ban'able subject now..... will probably be out in 1/0 days | 00:54 |
| asj_ | DocScrutinizer: she canna take any more captain ;) | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt, no, pr1.3 is <reply> STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 00:54 |
| Jaizuke | Can anybody please help me with the optimize N900 script? | 00:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 00:55 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | friggin blog, not even takes my comments - meh. Anyway what a BS, Stskeeps clearly explained in PR1.3 the kexec bug is fixed but meego switched to uBoot chainloading now - much cleaner and better solution - and completely unrelated to PR1.3 | 01:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | (well, maybe except for the fact they seem to bundle uBoot with a maemo kernel - presumably a PR1.3 version) | 01:17 |
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| andax | Hello, can someone recommend me a tiny WYSIWYG html editor which runs in a browser (embedded in html) but with no need for a webserver? | 01:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd expect you can install this right away, no need to wait for any PR1.3 to come - or not | 01:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so... | 01:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 01:18 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 01:18 |
| kerio | looooool | 01:19 |
| jacekowski | pr1.3 is released? | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /kickban jacekowski | 01:20 |
| jacekowski | you missed | 01:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | yoe ever heard of intentional near miss | 01:20 |
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| kerio | fuck yeah 100 points in gta chinatown wars | 01:21 |
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| fcrochik | Venemo: I tried to run "apt-get upgrade" and for some reason sticky-notes was "kept back"... | 01:28 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: what does 'apt-get install sticky-notes' say? | 01:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | sticky-notes? eeeew, hope it's not a saxophone | 01:30 |
| fcrochik | the following extra-packages will be installed: q-extras. the following new packages will be installed: q-extas. the following packages will be upgraded: sticky-notes | 01:31 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: it is like there are two q-extras.... ???? | 01:31 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: what? | 01:32 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it is a note-taking homescreen widget | 01:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaaah | 01:33 |
| * DocScrutinizer *loves* homescreen widgets - can slow down and even break the whole machine and nobody ever knows why | 01:33 | |
| fcrochik | Venemo: I don't know why is listing the q-extras as "will be installed and also as new package to be installed" | 01:33 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: try 'apt-get install q-extras' | 01:34 |
| fcrochik | installed 1.0.5 | 01:34 |
| fcrochik | and now upgraded sticky notes | 01:35 |
| fcrochik | Venemo: all good, feel free to creat your own sticky notes! :) | 01:35 |
| kerio | eew | 01:35 |
| fcrochik | Have to go but first: new release of geeps with "horizontal accuracy".... | 01:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrofeel tempted :-D | 01:36 |
| * DocScrutinizer waves, but fcrochik doesn't look back | 01:37 | |
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| * DocScrutinizer fires up HAM, sobbing | 01:39 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | hey, maybe HAM could display xkcd of the week, while running apt-worker :-P | 01:41 |
| Venemo | fcrochik: glad you succeeded | 01:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: he's goooone | 01:41 |
| mgedmin | no, please don't make HAM any slower | 01:43 |
| mgedmin | have you ever measured how long it takes for microb to open and start rendering a web page? | 01:43 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: hm, my IRC client didn't show a leave message | 01:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer chokes on mentioning of "phonon" for GeePS | 01:44 | |
| DocScrutinizer | my tabexpand suggests there's no fcr.... enamore | 01:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | any* | 01:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (got "hide join/quit/nickchange") | 01:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcrochik | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Have to go but first: new release of geeps with "horizontal accuracy".... 01:36 | 01:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | DocScrutinizer | 01:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | fcrofeel tempted :-D | 01:50 |
| andax | what is the equivalent of the Unix less command on maemo? (sh: less: not found) | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html#t2010-10-15T01:36:10 | 01:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get install less | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's nothing like the real less | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's in extras, devel, or tools | 01:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also: | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~messybox | 01:53 |
| infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils | 01:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | and http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools to the rescue | 01:54 |
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| hatake_kakashi | I think less might be available in tools if not it'll be in one of the extras | 01:59 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, when I get back to England, can you just remind me to use the ambient light sensor to also dim the screen on the calculator - if theres no actual light around then it should dim | 02:00 |
| hatake_kakashi | and bash-setup doesn't do a good job of setting up user with bash when user opted yes for using bash instead | 02:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: duh, why would calculator not dim on ALS?? o.O | 02:01 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer, hatake_kakashi: thanks, got it now but only works as root atm. btw: I could not imagine why less is not part of the baselayout of maemo. So far, it was in the baselayout of any linux i came across. | 02:01 |
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| andax | and i need it badly :-) | 02:02 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I mean the solar cell part - to make it a bit more funnerer | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | andax: see ~messybox | 02:02 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, my personal thinking is that nokia guys didn't think maemo users are also proper linux users :) or maybe they thought people would be inclined to use the GUI parts instead | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 02:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: OK | 02:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: either of those, yes | 02:03 |
| lcuk | thanks \o | 02:03 |
| * lcuk gets back to packing | 02:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: maemo basically is trying even harder than ubuntu to mimic a windows machine | 02:03 |
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| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, its sad considering they expected NIT to not be as popular as their normal handsets to also assume that NIT owners won't be inclined to use power tools | 02:04 |
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| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, at least it not as bad as symbian mimicking windows :) | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: seems there's been a paradigma shift regarding that - now maem.. errr meego is hyped to become their top notch smartphone OS | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so of course they go for abominations like extension hiding, VFAT filesystems, and no proper gnutools | 02:06 |
| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, well when the time comes critics will be giving us the verdict of a quick rundown of what n9 will be like.. n900 was heralded as combining both internet tablet and phone functionality came out to be neither really good at either of them :) | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't argue aginst that | 02:07 |
| SpeedEvil | No proper gnutools is the right decision. | 02:08 |
| andax | frankly speaking, i think the GUI parts do not work like i want it to work and the kernel is not made with GUI so chances to survive without binary utilities are near zero | 02:08 |
| nidO | that said, my n900 both makes and receives perfectly good phone calls, so it gets a 10/10 from me as a phone | 02:08 |
| hatake_kakashi | it saddens me having to point out the obvious :) alas we'll see what n9 will be like | 02:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you got the chance to sanitize :-D | 02:08 |
| nidO | which is more than can be said for most apple/android trash where the phone is an afterthought | 02:08 |
| nidO | at least in the n900's case, its an afterthought that nokia *are good at* | 02:08 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, which is why alot of new n900 owners thinking it was a cool device actually wore out their novelties within the first few months | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mere phone is excellent, but tbh my 6210 as of y2000 was smarter on the few phone *apps* it had, than a plain N900 is ootb | 02:10 |
| hatake_kakashi | well in most cases n900 is very good for linux power users in general however: 1) it lacks portrait functionality for almost everything else apart from web browsing and phone calling (not to mention phone calling doesn't even log the amount of time you spent on it without a 3rd party tool if there is one) 2) the battery sizes for what reason is beyond me do they opted to give n900 a much much smaller sized plus the capacity on n900 compared to its prede | 02:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | cessors | 02:11 |
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| andax | but also, some GUI apps amaze me, i dont want to miss them and i see there is a lot respectable work in them. | 02:12 |
| nidO | the battery issue has always annoyed me, when my e90's bp-4l, of basically the same volume, is 1500mah | 02:12 |
| hatake_kakashi | and there's still lots of owners facing weak microUSB ports that can be easily ripped out | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMG, really? 180mA less? | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I still get 3 days standby with active IRC *easily* | 02:13 |
| hatake_kakashi | everyone's usage of it as a phone, as a tablet or both has different views on how good or how bad it is | 02:14 |
| jaska | mines a table that occasionally rings | 02:14 |
| jaska | tablet* | 02:14 |
| hatake_kakashi | its not just the 180mA less that annoys me.. I still cannot find a single source of where to buy BL-5J except to order them online | 02:14 |
| nidO | DocScrutinizer: its 15% less battery life than a battery essentially the same volume and like a 4 year older design, yes | 02:14 |
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| hatake_kakashi | had it been the same size as its predecessor, there would have been no dramas for me whatsoever to buy spare batteries | 02:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's a dfferent cell chemistry though. Maybe LiPo isn't that siuted for the use and duty pattern | 02:15 |
| jaska | atleast the keyboards buttons feel better than n810.. albeit they could be larger | 02:15 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: It would change a lot if the pointer pen could have two or three (mouse-)buttons and a bluetooth connection to the n900. Some common linux apps could be used. | 02:15 |
| andax | i think it could be done. i think bluetooth devices can be so tiny. | 02:16 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, heh there were discussions of multitap and about using capacitator screen rather than resistive | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | andax: hey! :-D attach a USB mouse! | 02:16 |
| hatake_kakashi | that requires n900 USB OTG which is still WIP | 02:16 |
| jaska | http://torrents.thepiratebay.org/5598924/Midsomer_Murders_S13E02_-_Made_to_Measure_Murder.5598924.TPB.torrent | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | or even a BT mouse | 02:17 |
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| andax | How could i? Is there a USB adaptor available for such? | 02:17 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer^ | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: sure? | 02:17 |
| hatake_kakashi | I've heard there's a hand full of BT mouse supported | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=824197#post824197 | 02:17 |
| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, no but I believe you would need OTG support and plus you have to either hack the mouse with the connector or buy a mouse that actually has microUSB connector as andax said | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | for those that've been living under a stone for the last 3 months | 02:18 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: mine is not (medion bt mouse) | 02:18 |
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| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, that doesn't mean its stable :) I've seen that thread.. requires custom kernel which would again put it out of the equation compared to its predecessors having OTG capability built-in | 02:19 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, heh that sucks | 02:19 |
| andax | indeed :( | 02:19 |
| hatake_kakashi | "The purpose of this package is NOT to bring hostmode to the masses, but it's meant to facilitate other devels to give a try to current state of what we basically achieved so far - and we are NOT INTERESTED in support requests, nor in "works for me" or "boohoohoooo It fails!!1!1!"" -- as per link quote | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: sorry then, we won't get any better than that any time soon - at least regarding need of a kernel that actually supports USB host | 02:20 |
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| nidO | *insert obligatory "hope datz in 1.3 then!" comment* | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | it seems not even meego kernels most bleeding edge are going to adopt the nasty hacks needed to put N900 USB host to work | 02:21 |
| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, I know, hence I don't go expect, there's plenty of other hacks I've yet to implement in my n900 but I mean it can put some owners off really.. OTG not as per standard (irregularity out of its NIT series? :)) | 02:21 |
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| hatake_kakashi | heh epic pr1.3 | 02:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: I agree, back when I was about to order / wait for the N900, when I realized it has fubar USB I was temped to go SCREWIT for a moment - then made up my mind and though "*I* can fix that" | 02:23 |
| hatake_kakashi | maybe its about time nokia should make n900 the "I am not a wannabe" NIT owner | 02:23 |
| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, best way to look at things, there's no more flexible platform for mobile OS to work with compared to maemo I'd dare say | 02:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hatake_kakashi: well, it was months and moths of pain for my EE heart, until finally the schematics 'leaked' | 02:25 |
| hatake_kakashi | DocScrutinizer, EE? Estonian? | 02:25 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but now I'm more happy with N900 than with any prior device I owned | 02:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | or Electronics Engineer or something? lol | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ DocScrutinizer | 02:26 |
| infobot | rumour has it, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | Electronics Engineer | 02:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | ahh | 02:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | I'm fairly happy overall with my n900 despite of all its pitfalls that I constantly pick on about. A lot better than my n95-1 (minus a few things) and it also fulfilled my desires to own my very own linux powered phone | 02:28 |
| hatake_kakashi | let just say that its not just a phone, its more like a portable device which has phone capability | 02:28 |
| nidO | I do really like the n900, but, frankly, it's not quite what i'd hoped. | 02:29 |
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| hatake_kakashi | it isn't for many I bet, but if you can work with it, it will still make you quite happy as a base for many other things | 02:29 |
| nidO | I wanted a mobile do-everything device that was an upgrade to my e90. does not deliver. | 02:29 |
| hatake_kakashi | I was hoping to fully kick my n95-1 out but that didn't happen as well | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wanted a N810 with UMTS, I got much more | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo the smaller screen and kbd | 02:31 |
| hatake_kakashi | n900 is my first NIT device | 02:31 |
| Mousey | kakashi proctology! | 02:31 |
| nidO | ditto, I could never really see the practical upshot of older ones over the e-series or communicators of the time | 02:31 |
| hatake_kakashi | I was also quite annoyed at nokia's plan to make meego rather than dedicating themselves to work with maemo platform | 02:32 |
| jaska | heh, i remember booting 9000i into dos | 02:32 |
| jaska | and ircing from a car with one | 02:32 |
| hatake_kakashi | Mousey, lolwut? | 02:32 |
| hatake_kakashi | oh yeh the nokia communicator was one of my childhood dreams of owning one, never got it but n900 is far better than communicator I bet :D | 02:33 |
| Mousey | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRcIrnjlQI | 02:33 |
| Mousey | --^ | 02:33 |
| nidO | hatake_kakashi: for pure productivity, really not | 02:33 |
| hatake_kakashi | Mousey, lol oh that, anime reference | 02:34 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 02:35 |
| hatake_kakashi | n900 = NIT chibi :p | 02:35 |
| hatake_kakashi | nidO, huh? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | GENERAL CHANNEL POLICY ANNOUNCEMET: it's deprecated to post URLs that neithe contain nor come with a hint about their content. BEWARE! might cause kick or ban | 02:35 |
| jaska | :D | 02:35 |
| nidO | hatake_kakashi: n900 being better than communicators - not so for actually getting things done, by a long way | 02:36 |
| hatake_kakashi | nidO, well not so but then again the base hardware is much better, its just the UI that's the let down.. at least I guess it'll be up to the maemo community to focus on making alternatives and maybe then shall n900 mimic a little like communicator series | 02:37 |
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| nidO | well, the hardware's better *in some ways*. the keyboard is a massive step down over any communicator or eseries | 02:38 |
| hatake_kakashi | Mousey, ever seen to aru kagaku no railgun? n900 reminds me of `the last order' :D the immature and pre-released NIT series :D | 02:39 |
| nidO | I do really like my n900 but I was very close to returning it after finding out just how terribad the keyboard was, and having to pick up my lower jaw from the floor after seeing the train wreck that is maemo's modest implementation | 02:40 |
| hatake_kakashi | and don't forget about the screen not being able to tilt on an angle like n97 | 02:40 |
| nidO | well, there the communicators have the n97 and n900 thoroughly licked as well, being as you can have them at any angle | 02:41 |
| hatake_kakashi | alas all communicators and e-series were powered none other than symbian | 02:41 |
| nidO | symbian's fine | 02:41 |
| hatake_kakashi | not for me | 02:41 |
| nidO | its a very good, solid, efficient os with a bit of a dated ui sitting on it. | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | sybian's fine? | 02:41 |
| andax | does someone not find the maemo filesystem "hierarchy" is confusing? o_O | 02:41 |
| Mousey | hatake_kakashi: nah, not my style. =/ | 02:41 |
| nidO | for getting things done, I couldnt give a toss that the icons look a bit old | 02:42 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I have seenirc bots that will lookup the title automagically for links (like youtube etc) | 02:42 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, not really, especially when you have worked with a fair few various linux distros :) | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, titles are blue smoke and sand in your eyes | 02:42 |
| hatake_kakashi | Mousey, lol fair enough | 02:42 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: cant find the users home directory via bt file transfer | 02:43 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: seems having a different order | 02:43 |
| hatake_kakashi | I'm not worried about icons or its provided features I'm moreso concerned of its overall functionality in that it doesn't try and inhibit users' desires.. which is exactly what my n95-1 ultimately shitted me the most | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: either it's clear from context what about an URL is, or you might feel oblighed to give enough info to save 449 users from clicking on that URL to find out | 02:44 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, its either /home/user or /home/user/MyDocs.. under usual hfm and stuff like that I think it'll just show up as your device name which links to /home/user/MyDocs once you open that up | 02:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and the promise to kick/ban after some warnings wasn't kidding | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: in other chans you earn a kickban on posting *any* URL | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | which of course is insane | 02:46 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, but that policy isnt great, its not going to be important enough for people to remember or need to know? just common sense, if you get infuriated enough to raise a kickban, why not just use the energy and ask the user what the link was? | 02:46 |
| hatake_kakashi | support channels you don't unless you repeat or you constantly post offtopic junk | 02:46 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: actually, via bluetooth it is different: ..\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\foobar | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'm an evil teacher trying to educate nice folks - and I'm grumpy as you all know and love me for that | 02:47 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, which program are you using? I'm using file manager and it allows me to send files through bluetooth | 02:48 |
| hatake_kakashi | hehe | 02:48 |
| lcuk | not really, save the kicks for offensive content - btw kerio deserves a massive ban ;) | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: and a asking for "what's that URL" isn't really different from "you're supposed to tell what that URL is" | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | kerio??? YEEEES | 02:49 |
| lcuk | sure, but one is positive reenforcement :P | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 02:49 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: i connect in the opposite direction, i work on lapttop with files on n900, via bluetooth connection but i cannot find root not home directories | 02:49 |
| andax | not -> nor | 02:49 |
| lcuk | you could of course just tell them what the link was "hey, I noticed you forgot the title, for everyone else its ..." :P | 02:49 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, ahh | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: I'm advancing offensive, then usually calm down a lot | 02:49 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, for that I just either ssh in via wireless or pc suite mode and enabling USB networking | 02:50 |
| lcuk | i have finally managed to pack suitcase, buying a helicopter with a box that takes up 1/3 of suitcase space causes logistical issues :P | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 02:51 |
| sp3000 | lcuk: you need a bigger helicopter to put the suitcase in | 02:51 |
| sp3000 | problem solved! | 02:51 |
| lcuk | :D sp3000 awesome | 02:51 |
| hatake_kakashi | and so you carry the helicopter by hand? lol | 02:51 |
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| hatake_kakashi | err nm | 02:51 |
| lcuk | sp3000, verkkokauppa has so many nice toys tho :P I couldnt carry them all back with me :D | 02:52 |
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| lcuk | hatake_kakashi, no my one piece of handluggage is this laptop | 02:52 |
| lcuk | err laptop bag | 02:53 |
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| hatake_kakashi | heh that's quite small | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you need to unpack it and let it fly next to your window ;-D | 02:54 |
| hatake_kakashi | but no, I thought what sp3000 meant was to buy a big helicopter so big that it will never fit in yer suitcase rather than thinking the literal meaning is to buy a real and proper helicopter so that you could for example sit in | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you only take the remote control with you | 02:54 |
| hatake_kakashi | and when it runs out of nitro/battery you can watch it disappear from yer view lol | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: or you place the heli into siutcase and wear all the clothes that don't fit in now | 02:55 |
| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, I have already decided on that approach | 02:55 |
| lcuk | I am going to be so warm in the airport :D | 02:56 |
| hatake_kakashi | heh igloo | 02:56 |
| sp3000 | or, just say the hlicopter is a funny hat | 02:56 |
| hatake_kakashi | carry it in yer bare hands and when they ask what is it you say its `my baby' :D | 02:56 |
| lcuk | :D ahah | 02:56 |
| * DocScrutinizer is waiting for Myrtti making anothe mushroom notice to calendar | 02:57 | |
| lcuk | thats in my pocket already | 02:57 |
| * lcuk drops so much tech onto the security conveyor I could fly to pluto and back | 02:57 | |
| hatake_kakashi | as long as you don't give them second looks that you're an electronics smuggler | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol for pluto | 02:58 |
| lcuk | well the people checking the main bags will see a metal box o_O | 02:58 |
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| hatake_kakashi | it'll come up as silver lol | 02:59 |
| hatake_kakashi | they'll probably tell you to open it and show them what is it | 02:59 |
| * lcuk fully expects to find a "weopened your luggage ..." note again | 02:59 | |
| lcuk | no, this is the checked luggage, not in my presence | 02:59 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: the /home/user/MyDocs folder is called Bluetooth-Umgebung\Gesamte Bluetooth\ Neighborhood\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\Data | 02:59 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: aww /home/user/MyDocs folder is called Bluetooth-Umgebung\Gesamte Bluetooth Neighborhood\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\Data | 03:00 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, whoa! that's really long path, hmm why not use binding mount? | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: helicoper? Yeah probably... "WTF!!! IS! THAT?!?" | 03:00 |
| lcuk | anyway, its rly late | 03:00 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: because maemo uses a somewhat unknown filesystem | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: right, time for lunch | 03:01 |
| hatake_kakashi | andax, not really, its mostly ext3 and fat32 | 03:01 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: and my brain is already full | 03:01 |
| andax | hatake_kakashi: with the difference that its not compatible with each of them | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | andax: seems you got something wrong | 03:02 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer: my linux box did not recognize that fs, my windows box did not recognize that fs | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | /home/user/MyDocs is called "Documente" in LANG=de_DE | 03:03 |
| andax | thats why i connect via bluetooth | 03:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | andax: too bad, all my linux boxes have no problems whatsoever | 03:04 |
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| hatake_kakashi | andax, too much bluetoothing for you! btw how fast can you transfer over bluetooth anyway? when I transfer over usb via sshfs I can attain roughly 2-3MB/s | 03:05 |
| andax | DocScrutinizer: it is not "Dokumente" here, but i use german | 03:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on N900 filemanager it's "Documente" iirc | 03:06 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | andax: just use tab completion | 03:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, it's N900, MyDocs/.documents is "Documente" | 03:07 |
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| andax | DocScrutinizer1GB takes estimated time of 84 minutes, and i wasnt able to move files larger than approx. 1.2GB | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | andax: via USB mass storage? | 03:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | andax: wtf? use usb networking | 03:08 |
| andax | DocScrutinizervia bluetooth | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, yeah | 03:08 |
| hatake_kakashi | usb networking isn't faster than usb mass storage | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope, for sure not | 03:08 |
| hatake_kakashi | but usb networking can provide you with shell and few other things :D | 03:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: fwiw I find usb network with sshfs is faster than mass storage | 03:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nope, I got around 12MB/s via mass storage, *write* to eMMC, for a 13GB | 03:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | but I use rsync so it doesn't have to transfer *everything* | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 03:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | I couldn't measure transfer speeds via mass storage in a stable fashion, though sshfs I know is quite slow for transferring files because it heavily uses CPU | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's not a fair competition | 03:11 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | heh -- who says it has to be fair ? ;) | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: I can rsync to a mass storage mounted device as well :-P | 03:12 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: really? I never tried that, but I'm always in networking mode so... | 03:13 |
| hatake_kakashi | rsync doesn't have to be over a network with IP addresses, it can be between two mounted devices or even directories | 03:14 |
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| chx | so i am getting my N900 on Monday (or Sunday, pending some tricks). Is there a "top list of awesome apps to install imedaitely" | 03:14 |
| hatake_kakashi | define: awesome | 03:14 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | chx: charge the battery before you start dicking about | 03:15 |
| chx | hah | 03:16 |
| jpinx-eeepc | chx: and learn what's in there before you start adding crapware | 03:16 |
| babsher_ | is there a difference between the using dbus or bluez to connect to a bluetooth device | 03:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chx: not-my-nokia (immediately!!), load applet, simple brightness applet | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | xchat | 03:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | rootsh | 03:19 |
| chx | bahaha why notmynokia? | 03:20 |
| chx | whats wrong with registering to mynokia | 03:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | wtf is not-my-nokia ? | 03:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | and xchat is crap | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: it's anticherry | 03:20 |
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| hatake_kakashi | makes n900 not subscribe itself to my nokia | 03:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | cherry? | 03:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | why is that a good thing? | 03:20 |
| hatake_kakashi | not necessarily | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | # kill that cherry PITA, before it sends SMS | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | # see http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription | 03:21 |
| hatake_kakashi | but disabling my nokia may save you sms fees | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | and protect your privacy | 03:21 |
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| babsher_ | any one know about the bluetooth programming? | 03:21 |
| jpinx-eeepc | your device is on the internet - privacy gone n | 03:22 |
| johndo | hi | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: maybe yours | 03:22 |
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| chx | humm | 03:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chx: flashlight | 03:23 |
| johndo | i've installed easy debian on my n900 and upgraded it to current debian versions | 03:23 |
| chx | there is a problem of ordering | 03:23 |
| chx | i mean | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not flashlight-extra though (brings machine to a grinding halt) | 03:23 |
| chx | i presume by now the phone will have pr1.2 on it | 03:23 |
| hatake_kakashi | babsher_, not I but taking an educated guess at yer problem, I'd say if you use dbus you make other built-in applications that depends on dbus aware | 03:23 |
| chx | and when i switch on it registers. | 03:23 |
| johndo | all worked fine until recently, now my menu bar on the lx desktop flashes | 03:23 |
| chx | no...? | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | chx: I wouldn't rely on that | 03:24 |
| johndo | i've tried to remove some lxde config files in home dir, but no success | 03:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | chx: and it won't register until you insert a SIM | 03:24 |
| johndo | any ideas or hints? | 03:24 |
| chx | oh | 03:24 |
| chx | that wont happen for days | 03:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: so basically it registers on boot, before you have time to stop it | 03:25 |
| chx | out of curiosity, is it possible to send-receive SMS without a voice plan? | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, on PR1.2 it does - *if* there's a SIM | 03:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | chx: depends on your provider | 03:25 |
| chx | jpinx-eeepc: what should i ask from my provider :) | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems here we got no SIM that don't come with voice plan | 03:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | same here | 03:26 |
| chx | heh | 03:26 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: so - having reflashed, inserted a working sim, rebooted, upgraded - it's done with nokia and I can't stop it | 03:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | but then here we don't pay for inbound minutes | 03:27 |
| chx | http://shop.windmobile.ca/ProductCatalog/DataPlans/PlanDetails.aspx?id=Infinite+Laptop | 03:27 |
| chx | i alreayd have this SIM in an Option 442 datacard. | 03:27 |
| jpinx-eeepc | chx: same as you asked here | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: seems yes | 03:27 |
| hatake_kakashi | some providers may charge you to send and receive SMS, others may bundle it as a cost for yer voice plan or have a set amount of sms you can send on yer plan | 03:28 |
| chx | i see. | 03:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Moving a hundred meg over usb-ethernet from outside to phone goes at 7M/s | 03:28 |
| chx | so no tricks of sending SMSes over data only? | 03:28 |
| chx | like we can do with voice? | 03:28 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: so installing not-my-nokia will make no difference to me now | 03:28 |
| hatake_kakashi | receiving is usually free unless its a premium number.. here in .au we have special numbers that are marked for premium sms services | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: the suggestion was't addressed to you anyway | 03:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | chx: sure there are webpages to send 'free' SMS | 03:30 |
| * jpinx-eeepc fails to see how installing not-my-nokia will work for anyone once the phone is booted... | 03:30 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | and usually you also may send SMS via your SIP provider | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: please read the wiki URL I posted above | 03:30 |
| jpinx-eeepc | i did | 03:31 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it appears to be effective only if you install it before inserting a sim | 03:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | cherry came with PR1.2 - you're supposed to install not-my-nokia *prior* to SSU upgrade to PR1.2 | 03:31 |
| SpeedEvil | Or you pull the SIM, then install the package that I've forgotten the name of. | 03:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and you also seem to have an option to delete the pending sim even when you booted to a PR1.2 without SIM | 03:32 |
| jpinx-eeepc | SpeedEvil: if the upgradde is done and the sim is in - you're toast | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:33 |
| johndo | so you could have prevented the n900 to send phone number to nokia for all times? | 03:33 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 03:33 |
| jpinx-eeepc | and there is no retro-opt-out? | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | there is | 03:34 |
| johndo | nice to know it after starting the device ;) | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'll send another SMS for that X-P | 03:34 |
| jpinx-eeepc | the sms is not the issue | 03:34 |
| jpinx-eeepc | 50 cents or whatever | 03:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, it's the privacy violation | 03:35 |
| johndo | there's no way back other than to get a new phone number | 03:35 |
| johndo | they dont delete data | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | nobody really does | 03:35 |
| johndo | they = nokia | 03:35 |
| johndo | big brother as all the others too | 03:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | they = * | 03:35 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: I change sim when I travel - always using a local provider - so nokia will have a bunch of numbers for me :) | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, nope | 03:36 |
| johndo | but do they really get personal data from the telephone providers? | 03:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | cherry shit is done once, not per sim | 03:36 |
| johndo | you sure? | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | johndo: they get SMS from *you* | 03:37 |
| johndo | i changed the sim as the question abpout registration came after upgrade to 1.2 | 03:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | johndo: yes I'm sure | 03:37 |
| johndo | and it came again as i switched back to my contract sim ;) | 03:38 |
| johndo | so i guess nokia now has both numbers | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | during boot some script checks for ~user/.cherry file, if none exists it sends the SMS and creates that file | 03:38 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | they must have the numbers or they can not send you "helpful messages" | 03:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | so until you reflash or erase that file, there'll be no other SMS | 03:39 |
| johndo | .cherry_state ? | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sth like that | 03:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | check there: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 03:39 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: so if I delete the file and have the not-my-nokia installed and reboot - all is undone? | 03:39 |
| johndo | good to know .. to not erase that file on a cleanup :) | 03:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: nfc | 03:40 |
| jpinx-eeepc | this is worse than MS :( | 03:40 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | how often do nokia send sms's? I see none in the convrsations | 03:41 |
| johndo | the bad thing is that there is no opt-out or "no" button when the registration window pops up | 03:41 |
| johndo | nokia had left a lot of trust in my eyes at this moment, did not think they are that bad | 03:42 |
| jpinx-eeepc | even MS has that | 03:42 |
| johndo | worse than MS is no level, MS has no skill whenit comes rto inet and data mining | 03:42 |
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| johndo | nokia is at the level of apple and google with that behaviuour | 03:43 |
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| johndo | something completely different, what's the difference in behaviour between the GUI packet manager and apt-get? | 03:45 |
| johndo | my GUI packetmanager is happy and don't want to upgrade anything | 03:45 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: huge | 03:45 |
| johndo | but when i start apt-get upgrade it wants to upgrade 3 packages | 03:45 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: I am told that using apt-get for the wrong things will break it | 03:45 |
| johndo | well, i would trust apt more than any GUI packet manager :) | 03:46 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: don't | 03:47 |
| johndo | and i see the packages apt wants to upgrade in the fremantle-1.2 repository | 03:47 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: you speak like a debian user ;) | 03:47 |
| johndo | so my question is why does the gui packet manager don't upgrade them? | 03:48 |
| johndo | I am one :P | 03:48 |
| jpinx-eeepc | same here, and I have been warned to use HAM whenever possible, not ap-get | 03:48 |
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| johndo | hmm, not very convincing :( | 03:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | johndo: apt-get upgrade is strongly deprecated and usually breaks your system | 03:49 |
| johndo | then the repositories are managed badly, shouldn't happen with good repositories | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the repositories have some special hacks that don't take effect with pure apt | 03:51 |
| chx | OK so http://www.twilio.com/sms/ this seems to be a solution to my problem. | 03:51 |
| johndo | so anybody knows what mechanisms prevent the GUI packet manager from installing packages which apt does not know of? | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe categories or whats it called | 03:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiu HAM only shows pkgs in group/category user/* | 03:52 |
| johndo | but then you can't even trust the fremantle extras repository? | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | trust? | 03:53 |
| johndo | trust in "it's mostly safe to install packages from there? | 03:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, those packages are supposed to be safe | 03:54 |
| * jpinx-eeepc installs notmynokia using HAM | 03:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | johndo: mostly | 03:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 03:58 |
| johndo | the thing i hate with HAM is that i can't see what it is doing | 04:00 |
| johndo | where it gets packages from, ... | 04:00 |
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| johndo | jpinx-eeepc: notmynokia is extras-devel and you install that with HAM? | 04:03 |
| johndo | how can you know what dependencies it installs from devel behind your back? | 04:04 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: relax and enjoy the ride ;) | 04:10 |
| jpinx-eeepc | you can query with dpkg after | 04:10 |
| johndo | hehe, i like the word "after" in that sentence :D | 04:10 |
| jpinx-eeepc | if you don't like something you can work out how to purge it ;) | 04:11 |
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| johndo | yes, and how to downgrade all packages which have been upgraded to a version from devel because of dependencies ;) | 04:12 |
| johndo | i guess my trust in apt to upgrade files isn't worse than that :) | 04:13 |
| jpinx-eeepc | johndo: you have reason - at least aptitude tells you - HAM says nothing | 04:13 |
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| johndo | gah, and nobody knows how to fix my blinking menu bar in lxde | 04:14 |
| johndo | do i really have to start with a fresh image :( | 04:14 |
| jpinx-eeepc | chroot? | 04:14 |
| johndo | yes | 04:15 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I have three images that I use ) | 04:15 |
| jpinx-eeepc | differing states of brokenness while I fiddle | 04:15 |
| johndo | i dont care to copy the original image over, but when trhis happens all 3 days or so it's not worth to invest time in the debian image to customize it | 04:15 |
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| ShadowJK | the "install" (or whatever) tab says what it installs | 05:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, HAM says nothing? and what's with the rightmost of those tabs under "Details"? | 05:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | umm, ShadowJK been faster just another time :-D | 05:11 |
| nox- | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/10/14/nokia_dilbert/ | 05:12 |
| ShadowJK | I forget, is the swap and back key on GPIO on N810 or on the keyboard matrix? | 05:17 |
| ShadowJK | the swap key stopped responding :/ | 05:17 |
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| ShadowJK | ah, mce restart fixed it | 05:18 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 05:21 |
| ShadowJK | the ground is covered in lots of snow | 05:21 |
| * ShadowJK gets to drive to work with summer tyres :D | 05:22 | |
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| quanttrom | ShadowJK: wohoo :) | 05:38 |
| johndo | ShadowJK, DocScrutinizer: it says what it installs, but not where from ;) | 05:40 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yes, that's correct | 05:41 |
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| ebzzry | Is there an (cross)assembler for Fremantle? | 05:53 |
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| TermanaN900 | morning | 05:55 |
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| ham5 | that irc protocal addon what if I need to send some commands to the server? | 07:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | you use /command | 07:15 |
| ham5 | and is there some sort of preform commands after connect? | 07:16 |
| ham5 | /command privmsg ham5 hi | 07:18 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | ham5: /help | 07:31 |
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| petabit | come join us at #hackers or ##itt-tech . if you dare that is..... | 07:50 |
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| RST38h | <yawn> | 08:17 |
| slonopotamus | definitely | 08:18 |
| Stskeeps | indeed | 08:20 |
| Stskeeps | so dark outside | 08:20 |
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| slonopotamus | oh my, fourth Knuth tome is coming out soon | 08:28 |
| slonopotamus | 4A, to be exact :) | 08:29 |
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| ebzzry | Hi! What is the ideal way of making the physical keyboard RETURN key send Return and not KP_Enter? Will doing so break anything? | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | probably will break things ;) | 08:55 |
| ebzzry | That's a big "probably" there. :) | 08:55 |
| Stskeeps | http://thenokiablog.com/2010/10/14/palm-hires-ari-jaaksi/ <- wtf | 08:55 |
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| chx | <trolling> wait, Palm has already got close to bankruptcy they do not need to learn that </trolling> | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | palm's HP now | 08:57 |
| chx | i know | 08:57 |
| chx | i was just gently pointing out that the guy is not exactly known for skyrocketing a product to stardom and Palm is erm well was not shining lately either | 08:58 |
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| chx | needless to say, i was fidgeting between Android and Maemo for a year and today made finally the decision so while dissing Nokia for being a bunch of idiots, the N900 is *still* the best phone on the market for me | 09:00 |
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| Stskeeps | then again, where else would you find someone who gets Linux and isn't an android guy? | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 09:01 |
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| chx | on this level? | 09:02 |
| chx | that's fair | 09:02 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hello all | 09:03 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps, do you happen to be around? | 09:07 |
| Stskeeps | if you count it being around having this low caffeine level | 09:07 |
| hatake_kakashi | in other words cranky? ;) | 09:07 |
| RobbieThe1st | Eh, close enough. | 09:07 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Anyway, I'm still trying to work out how to make a proper flashable ubifs image. I did as you suggested and used tar with the --numeric-owner -pcf options. I get a (seemingly) valid archive. When I flash it, it won't even -try- to boot(nokia logo for a bit, then it shuts off). | 09:09 |
| mece | wth? What is it with mornings and tmo/fmc? | 09:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | Note that I excluded the contents of /dev/ in my archive - that shouldn't be a problem, should it? | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | mece: probably got flooded after http://thenokiablog.com/2010/10/14/palm-hires-ari-jaaksi/ | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: quite big problem | 09:10 |
| mece | It's not just you! http://forum.meego.com looks down from here. / It's not just you! http://talk.maemo.org looks down from here. | 09:10 |
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| RobbieThe1st | It's not dynamically generated? | 09:11 |
| * mece gasps | 09:11 | |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: at bootup you always need basic /dev stuff before udev starts up | 09:11 |
| RobbieThe1st | Fair enough | 09:12 |
| mece | damn | 09:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Also, another question. I ran into a comment saying that a full wipe to PR1.2 doesn't reset any eraseblock info. If that ends up being corrupt or bad, how do you clear that(and potentially re-test all sections of the flash)? | 09:17 |
| Stskeeps | nanderase from a initrd | 09:18 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hm... That would be safe to do when running off a ramdisk, right? | 09:19 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Alright, so I flashed to PR1.2, bound /dev/ elsewhere, then tar'd up the remaining files. I then copied it to my desktop, and added the files to my image. There's a good ~150 files, all "character device" or "block device", and all of size 0B. I made my image, flashed it... Again, nothing | 09:49 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Lets see, in terms of other info, /boot, /tmp, /sys, /proc, /srv, /initrd, /floppy and /cdrom are all empty folders in my image. Should any of them have content? | 09:50 |
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| mece | RobbieThe1st, great thread that portrait mode thread. Made me lol | 09:55 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Have you got my message from tuesday?: But I've got an older version of the driver, because the new is based on ahash, which cannot be backported. So I cannot say if the omap-sham will work, because the new one also uses dma and dma caused these problems. | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 09:55 |
| Stskeeps | 2.6.35? | 09:55 |
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| RobbieThe1st | :p | 09:55 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Yes the driver in 2.6.35 uses dma. If it does work, you want to add these two patches: http://marc.info/?l=linux-omap&m=127859730421939&q=raw http://marc.info/?l=linux-omap&m=128343706809048&q=raw | 09:57 |
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| Stskeeps | ok | 09:58 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Btw, what stands in the way to be able to use the 2.6.35 kernel on the n900 with maemo? Which drivers are still missing? | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | maemo requires a lot of interfaces now gone | 10:00 |
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| tobis87 | Do you mean for example the program which configures the wifi on every boot? Would this not be a nice gift, if pr 1.3 would give you the ability to update your kernel to a newer version, I mean cleanup the interface stuff? | 10:05 |
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| MohammadAG | <Stskeeps> maemo requires a lot of interfaces now gone | 10:08 |
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| MohammadAG | bme and mce would be the first to die right? | 10:08 |
| MohammadAG | bme can be upgraded, or the meego version can be pulled | 10:08 |
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| MohammadAG | mce - I don't give a shit | 10:09 |
| * MohammadAG downloads latest kernel source | 10:09 | |
| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps: Alright, so I flashed to PR1.2, bound /dev/ elsewhere, then tar'd up the remaining files. I then copied it to my desktop, and added the files to my image. There's a good ~150 files, all "character device" or "block device", and all of size 0B. I made my image, flashed it... Again, nothing | 10:09 |
| RobbieThe1st | Lets see, in terms of other info, /boot, /tmp, /sys, /proc, /srv, /initrd, /floppy and /cdrom are all empty folders in my image. Should any of them have content? | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: hmm | 10:10 |
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| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: out of ideas right now - can i help you during the weekend? we have last minute additions to meego so | 10:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | Sure | 10:10 |
| RobbieThe1st | Let me know if you have any ideas; feel free to PM me on the forums or send me an email if I'm not here, | 10:11 |
| MohammadAG | /boot holds kernel images for on device reflashes | 10:11 |
| MohammadAG | /sys can't be empty when the device is up and running, same goes for /proc | 10:11 |
| MohammadAG | /cdrom and /floppy are pretty obvious :p | 10:12 |
| MohammadAG | the N900 has no /initrd | 10:12 |
| MohammadAG | no idea about /srv | 10:12 |
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| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: In case you missed the earlier discussion, I'm trying to make a flashable N900 rootfs image. I have a tar'd archive of all the files, this instruction for making the image: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html Everything works fine, but it won't start to boot | 10:13 |
| RobbieThe1st | No blinking dots, it doesn't get past the Nokia logo. | 10:14 |
| MohammadAG | flash a framebuffer kernel and see what stops it | 10:14 |
| MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/framebuffer/zImage-fb-omap1.bin | 10:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Perfect | 10:16 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Ok, here's the error: UBIFS error (pid 1): ubifs_check_mode: bad CRC: calculated .... read ... then "bad node at LEB 0:0", "expected node type 6" | 10:21 |
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| Stskeeps | maybe you're hitting your own badblocks problem now.. | 10:22 |
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| MohammadAG | crc errors should be ignored afaik | 10:22 |
| MohammadAG | CONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" | 10:22 |
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| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, any ideas what this means lib/crc-ccitt.c:0: warning: switch -mcpu=cortex-a8 conflicts with -march= switch, assuming CPU feature set | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | Um, what should I do with that? | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | MohammadAG: normal | 10:24 |
| MohammadAG | that's the default kernel cmdline RobbieThe1st | 10:24 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, I see | 10:24 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, erm, PR1.2 flashing does work, so I assume that this should be able to be made to work the same way | 10:24 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, I'm assuming the N900 2.6.25 MeeGo kernel source is on gitorious somewhere? | 10:24 |
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| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: After those errors, I get an error about not having the root= option set, availaible partitons: blank. Then kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount rootfs on unknown-block(0,0) | 10:26 |
| hrw | hello | 10:26 |
| tobis87 | hi | 10:26 |
| hrw | MohammadAG: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-os-base/kernel-source/trees/master/patches | 10:27 |
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| MohammadAG | hrw, thanks | 10:27 |
| MohammadAG | RobbieThe1st, try flasher-3.5 --boot="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6" | 10:28 |
| * RST38h started getting spam about Indian marriage services | 10:28 | |
| MohammadAG | though I don't see why you'd need to do that | 10:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | TY | 10:28 |
| RST38h | I guess they finally figured out I do not need Russian mailorder brides | 10:28 |
| crashanddie | lol? http://www.wtf.org/wtf_eng/main/main_eng.html http://www.whorepresents.com/ http://nsfw.org/ | 10:29 |
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| Appiah | I'm not opening that! | 10:29 |
| crashanddie | Appiah, actually, they're all SFW | 10:30 |
| Appiah | :) | 10:30 |
| RST38h | depends on your w | 10:31 |
| crashanddie | http://wtf.org/photo/img_photo/04_main.gif | 10:31 |
| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: Same error. It seems like there's an error in the image? nand? and it's not able to mount. | 10:31 |
| TermanaN900 | crashanddie, that may or may not be true, but i doubt "whorepresents" will get through most work filters :p | 10:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html <- has been used successfully by someone else, right? | 10:32 |
| crashanddie | TermanaN900, I know :P | 10:32 |
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| tobis87 | Stskeeps: Are there any news regarding hw. accel. support in openssl? Sha1 and Md5 acceleration might be handy if dnssec will have to be supported. | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | no, not following that | 10:36 |
| MohammadAG | hmm shit | 10:36 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, the kernel partition is only 2MBs right? | 10:36 |
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| hrw | MohammadAG: right | 10:37 |
| hrw | MohammadAG: but 2MB is a lot | 10:37 |
| MohammadAG | not for a 3MB image | 10:38 |
| MohammadAG | need to check .config for extra crap | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | then don't bloat it | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | and strip it | 10:38 |
| hrw | MohammadAG: and use lzma for compression | 10:38 |
| hatake_kakashi | lol modules ftw ;) | 10:38 |
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| crashanddie | "This little piggy went to market -- to pay off a Russian woman's overdue debt to a bank. | 10:39 |
| crashanddie | Court officers in far eastern Russia have seized a piglet from a woman who owes a bank 13,000 roubles ($432) and put it up for sale to recuperate some of the money, the regional branch of the Federal Bailiffs Service said on Thursday." | 10:39 |
| MohammadAG | arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzma.S:4: Error: file not found: arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzma | 10:39 |
| mece | MohammadAG, perhaps you forgot to compress the piggy? | 10:40 |
| hatake_kakashi | oink | 10:40 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: meego still uses "format/unpack/boot" way of upgrades? | 10:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps: Sorry for bugging you, but the two lines you have here: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/making-flashable-rootfss-for-n900.html have been tested, correct? | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: yes, we used them for the first meego images | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | hrw: you can do zypper up too but we're not testng it | 10:41 |
| hrw | Stskeeps: I will wait for something ready for users rather | 10:41 |
| tobis87 | I don't understand that more people are interested in ipv6 than in dnssec. I have upgraded to the newested bind9 yesterday and it shows up that debian.org is already signed, but gentoo.org is not. :-D | 10:41 |
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| * RST38h isn't interested in either, so he cannot relate | 10:43 | |
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| crashanddie | lol... | 10:44 |
| crashanddie | Ari Jaaksi joining Palm :) | 10:44 |
| Corsac | itym HP | 10:45 |
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| MohammadAG | hmm | 10:45 |
| MohammadAG | how was the first compiler compiled? :P | 10:45 |
| johnx | RST38h, so what kind of recent tech developments *do* interest you? | 10:46 |
| johnx | (honestly curious, not sarcastic) | 10:46 |
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| Corsac | MohammadAG: it wasn't compiled, someone preyed enough and it appeared, already compiled | 10:46 |
| tobis87 | MohammadAG: You would have to ask Grace Hopper, how she did it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper | 10:46 |
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| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: It was written in assembly, most likely | 10:47 |
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| johnx | RobbieThe1st, what about the first assembler? :P | 10:47 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, as assembly is simply human readable machine language, you could make the claim that punched cards were assembly | 10:48 |
| crashanddie | johnx, with hardware logic? | 10:48 |
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| crashanddie | "The first time you do something, it's science. The second time you do something, it's engineering. The third time you do something, it's being a technician." | 10:50 |
| johnx | I like the idea that we're getting closer and closer to proper desktop 3D printers. then we can have software that builds some software to complete the circle | 10:50 |
| johnx | crashanddie, heh. pretty sure I'm past technician and all the way down to mechanic :) | 10:51 |
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| RST38h | johnx: gradual switch to remote controlled air force | 10:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Yea, wouldn't it be great to go "Hm... I need a new SD card." *torrent plans*, print. | 10:52 |
| johnx | RST38h, hacking opportunity of a lifetime? you probably only get one shot though ... | 10:53 |
| RST38h | johnx: movement from paper books to ebooks | 10:53 |
| RobbieThe1st | Sure, in reality that'd be pretty hard, but at some point it ought to be possible | 10:53 |
| johnx | RST38h, got any newspapers that you're happy to see be the first to go? | 10:54 |
| MohammadAG | plastic ink would cost more than the SD card by then | 10:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: I have not read a paper newspaper copy for months now | 10:54 |
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| johnx | it's probably been a year or so since I've really sat down and read one | 10:55 |
| RobbieThe1st | By then, the nanobots or living cells that actually make it could probably tear down other objects for raw materials | 10:55 |
| johnx | but still, the ebook situation is just as bad as streaming films: a million formats, specific formats working only on specific OSes or hardware | 10:55 |
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| MohammadAG | sigh, 2240900 | 10:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: in general, only technological changes that matter are those that may/will affect your day to day life | 10:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | So, you put your iphone 300 on one side, take the plans for your Nokia N9,000,000 and put it in, press "make"... | 10:56 |
| johnx | RST38h, IPv6 will affect my day-to-day work very much :) | 10:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: ipv6 has been around for years and its effect on your life is nul | 10:56 |
| RobbieThe1st | johnx: That's what good old HTML's for. | 10:56 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: Pretty sure it will not | 10:56 |
| RST38h | You wil have to change a few things you normally do at work but nothing big | 10:56 |
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| johnx | RST38h, you could have reasonably made that argument about virtualization 10 years ago | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: virtualization has not affected me over these years | 10:57 |
| johnx | RST38h, in case you forgot: johnx == sysadmin | 10:57 |
| MohammadAG | Bootloader error log follows: | 10:57 |
| MohammadAG | ERROR: Image kernel won't fit in partition | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: it remains a glorified way to run multiple ISS copies on the same machine :) | 10:57 |
| MohammadAG | heh | 10:57 |
| RST38h | johnx: yes, I am aware :) | 10:57 |
| RST38h | s/ISS/IIS | 10:58 |
| Corsac | well, running multiple copies of ISS on the same machine would be nice too :) | 10:58 |
| johnx | MohammadAG, is the bootloader telling you that about the kernel that's already in the partition? :P | 10:58 |
| RST38h | johnx: Virtualization does not cause you to lose your paycheck or get paid more though, so it is still not crucial enough | 10:58 |
| MohammadAG | grr, framebuffer not showing up | 10:59 |
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| johnx | RST38h, still I have more than a passing interest. it affects me about the same as ebooks :P | 10:59 |
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| lcuk | johnx, if plaintext is good enough for emails, its good enough for stories! | 11:00 |
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| johnx | lcuk, don't have to convince me :P I've been reading txt ebooks starting on a Handspring Visor Prism starting in 2001/2002 or so | 11:01 |
| RobbieThe1st | I've only done that on my old Iriver H320 and its Rockbox firmware. Worked nicely, provided you had a good .txt source | 11:01 |
| RST38h | johnx: Institutions are dumping their whole libraries because of the switch to ebooks | 11:02 |
| lcuk | yeah johnx I am the same | 11:02 |
| RobbieThe1st | The lack of "special" characters, italics and bold is a slight problem though, for some authors | 11:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, I would say, ebooks win in terms of the scale of effects :) | 11:02 |
| * johnx shrugs | 11:04 | |
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| lcuk | RobbieThe1st, if ASCII is good enough for porn, its good enough for authors :P | 11:10 |
| * RST38h also feels that ASCII is sufficient | 11:11 | |
| RST38h | Ok, make it CP1251 :) | 11:11 |
| BCMM | are you suggesting that people who use non-latin languages should communicate solely through porn? | 11:11 |
| mavhc | I mostly use my kindle as an rss reader, desktop app to email rss2ebook converted files | 11:11 |
| RST38h | BCMM: Deep. | 11:11 |
| BCMM | RST38h: LOL. | 11:11 |
| johnx | BCMM, I was about to remind lcuk about non-latin characters, but I find your proposal intriguing | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG | sigh | 11:13 |
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| lcuk | BCMM, LOL! | 11:15 |
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| Myrtti | ♥ Calibre | 11:16 |
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| MohammadAG | I miss how how tmo was in December | 11:19 |
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| MohammadAG | freemoe's dead :/ | 11:19 |
| lcuk | BCMM, RST38h - I dread to think the responces to an RFC on that proposal | 11:20 |
| lcuk | responses even | 11:20 |
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| johnx | after years of kinda holding still, how does debian still have one of the better net installers ... ? | 11:23 |
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| RST38h | johnx: They have not been adding garbage, like the rest? =) | 11:24 |
| FauxFaux | I know the guy that did it, and he's Fucking Amazing? :p | 11:25 |
| lcuk | johnx, it was designed at a time when 9600 was the fastest and so was built for strength and stability, now that design makes even more sense again :P especially as mobile networks are prone to not being as reliable as our home nets? :D | 11:25 |
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| johnx | opensuse 11.3 (the latest) just asked me to type in the address of a mirror and the full path down to the repo content file | 11:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, lcuk, you have it wrong. the other net installers do *less* AFAICT | 11:25 |
| johnx | maybe I'm like doing this wrong or something ... | 11:25 |
| johnx | FauxFaux, the debian net installer guy? really? | 11:26 |
| lcuk | >> airport | 11:26 |
| johnx | lcuk appended to airport | 11:26 |
| johnx | that actually makes sense if I take it literally | 11:27 |
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| lcuk | "taking it literally" in the context of porn communication could be a bit troublesome :P | 11:27 |
| johnx | >> bed | 11:29 |
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| RST38h | johnx shifted himself by bed. | 11:33 |
| RST38h | hm. | 11:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | icuk: While ASCII's fine for text, if the writer's used to writing in RTF, or forum-code, it... doesn't always come out so good | 11:34 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's valid hex :P | 11:34 |
| Scelt | http://digitizor.com/2010/10/14/finally-opera-will-support-extensions/ | 11:34 |
| Scelt | great news for mini opera too | 11:34 |
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| RobbieThe1st | For instance, one book series had a name with an accented e in it. I could either have a blank block, where it couldn't be displayed in the current font, or a regular e. I used a regular e, but it still looked weird. Same with people who use italics or bold to denote speech/telepathy or some other form of communication | 11:36 |
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| * johnx was too harsh to opensuse, is totally impressed that the installer happily runs paravirtualized under xen | 11:39 | |
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| RobbieThe1st | Back to my rootfs image issue. Out of curiosity, I tried making a jffs2 image and flashing that. It didn't work either, but came up with almost the same issue, aside from that the checksum error wasn't there. Because of this - and that the PR1.2 rootfs image works - I think there's an error in my mkfs.ubifs configuration | 11:40 |
| RobbieThe1st | http://pastebin.org/201124 | 11:40 |
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| RobbieThe1st | And http://pastebin.org/201149 for my ubinize.cfg | 11:41 |
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| RobbieThe1st | MohammadAG: Do you happen to know of any other sources of N900-nand flash data? Like, any way of checking if http://pastebin.org/201124 was done with the right options? | 11:45 |
| alterego | So MeeGo gets a palm guy and palm get the meego guy, interesting | 11:45 |
| Appiah | wait what | 11:46 |
| Appiah | Palm? | 11:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: installer does WHAT? | 11:46 |
| xkr47 | facepalm | 11:47 |
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| Appiah | palm devices with meego :) | 11:47 |
| * RST38h fetches cross, holy water, a couple of stakes | 11:47 | |
| alterego | heh | 11:47 |
| Appiah | cant remeber the last time I saw someone using a palm.. | 11:47 |
| xkr47 | at my work, a guy just switched from palm to samsung android something | 11:47 |
| xkr47 | he was sad to switch away from such a polished gui | 11:48 |
| xkr47 | or maybe it was htc rather than samsung | 11:48 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Well, I suppose I've gotten enough progress done for one day. I have to say though, I think I'm gonna keep that framebuffer kernel. >:3 Makes it boot -so- much cooler | 11:51 |
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| Venemo_N900 | hey guys | 11:52 |
| RobbieThe1st | Hello | 11:52 |
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| hrw | xkr47: switching from palmos -> anything is pain | 11:53 |
| RST38h | (but worth it) | 11:53 |
| hrw | xkr47: it is always lose of functionality | 11:54 |
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| hrw | RST38h: give me PIM apps from palmos on android... | 11:54 |
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| mece | funny this: http://twitter.com/ceoSteveJobs | 11:58 |
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| RobbieThe1st | y'know, something I'm curious about: When you first install PR1.2, on the first boot you get a really nice screen that lets you select time. Its this nice touch-sensitive, graphical clock you can drag about. Date selection's also nice. Yet, I haven't seen -one- other interface that uses that style. Not any of the Nokia apps, and not any 3rd-party apps. | 11:59 |
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| MohammadAG | that app doesn't use hlibildon for scrolling lists afaik | 12:01 |
| MohammadAG | libhildon* | 12:01 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Huh, so what, was it a tech demo or something? | 12:02 |
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| MohammadAG | RobbieThe1st, more like an app to give you better first impressions | 12:05 |
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| RobbieThe1st | yea, makes sense i suppose | 12:05 |
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| MohammadAG | maxximuscool has been posting a lot of BS recently | 12:07 |
| * MohammadAG gives up on booting the MeeGo kernel with maemo 5 | 12:08 | |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if it has mtd support compiled in | 12:08 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: yeah, I've noticd he's been posting a lot of kid posts recently, I thought he used to be cool ... | 12:11 |
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| merlin1991 | hey could someone paste me the content of the autorun.inf on the n900, had to remove mine because it was a rootkit entry | 13:50 |
| jpinx-eeepc | merlin1991: where is that in the fs? | 13:52 |
| merlin1991 | ~/MyDocs | 13:53 |
| jpinx-eeepc | mom | 13:53 |
| ieatlint | uh, i don't think there is an autorun.inf... | 13:53 |
| merlin1991 | oh yes there is | 13:53 |
| merlin1991 | it defines the symbol that is used | 13:53 |
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| ieatlint | well, it's not on my phone on the sd card or in mydocs, and i don't recall deleting it | 13:54 |
| Kaadlajk | [autorun] | 13:54 |
| jpinx-eeepc | cat autorun.inf | 13:54 |
| Kaadlajk | icon=.n900.ico | 13:54 |
| jpinx-eeepc | [autorun] | 13:54 |
| jpinx-eeepc | icon=.n900.ico | 13:54 |
| ieatlint | but maybe i did... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47654 | 13:54 |
| ieatlint | google found it quickly enough | 13:55 |
| jpinx-eeepc | merlin1991: ↑↑↑ | 13:55 |
| merlin1991 | thx jpinx-eeepc, Kaadlajk | 13:55 |
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| alterego | What good is wine on arm anyway? | 13:56 |
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| ieatlint | uh, i doubt it compiles on arm | 13:58 |
| alterego | It does | 13:58 |
| ieatlint | that's funny | 13:58 |
| alterego | They winehq guys are apparently supoporting rm development | 13:58 |
| alterego | arm development .. | 13:59 |
| hatake_kakashi | http://www.wine-reviews.net/wine-reviews/news/wine-running-on-a-nokia-n900.html | 13:59 |
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| alterego | inddedle | 14:01 |
| ieatlint | that seems to imply they're running qemu on the device to emulate x86 | 14:01 |
| hatake_kakashi | wine can't emulate x86 natively, even if it could the windows programs needs to be based on arm/armel | 14:03 |
| alterego | The idea is win32 ports to arm | 14:04 |
| alterego | Apparently | 14:04 |
| alterego | So no x86 emulation, | 14:04 |
| merlin1991 | ARM based superphone N900 running the x86 wine binary via a statically compiled arm qemu binary, within an x86 chroot. | 14:04 |
| alterego | Heh, | 14:04 |
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| yacc | Well, somebody did bochs for the n900 which seems like crazy idea, ... | 14:05 |
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| alterego | That's something different to what I was looking at/reading then ;) | 14:05 |
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| zutesmog | if all of the core wine api's are ported to arm. Then you have a wine api for arm for porting apps | 14:05 |
| alterego | Not such a crazy idea when the A9 takes off :D | 14:05 |
| hatake_kakashi | A9? | 14:05 |
| alterego | ARM Cortex A9 | 14:05 |
| hatake_kakashi | ahh | 14:06 |
| alterego | OMAP4 | 14:06 |
| RST38h | alterego: And, obviously, A9 will be an order of magnitude faster than A8? | 14:06 |
| yacc | Well, guess I'll have to wait for next christmas before there will be an userupgradeable A9-for-N900 package, right? | 14:06 |
| alterego | RST38h: dual core 1.6Ghz | 14:06 |
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| alterego | Potentially .. | 14:06 |
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| yacc | It's not as if there are endless lists of announced Maemo or Meego devices, ... | 14:07 |
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| alterego | Some serious welly that's for sure | 14:07 |
| hatake_kakashi | indeed a very warm and very battery hungry device will be on the horizon for a dualcore 1.6 using n900's puny battery | 14:07 |
| alterego | yacc: I imagine Q2 2011 when MeeGo is in a fully usable state it'll gain a lot more traction from 3rd parties | 14:07 |
| alterego | That is a pure estimation by me, Nokia should have released their N9-01 which will be full MeeGo hopefuly by then | 14:08 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, at least the N900 seems to charge rapidely on the power outlet charger, ... | 14:08 |
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| RST38h | alterego: Cooool. And what would be the memory connected to that? | 14:09 |
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| yacc | alterego, The forces of the counter revolution are fully entrenched, did you noticed that all new Nokias are despite they comment that N-series will be Maemo are still Symbian? | 14:09 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, it literally defeats its purposes that it has phone funtionality.. meaning new owners will have to run and plug their power starved n900 or fear losing portability | 14:09 |
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| alterego | yacc: I think that is after the N8 ;) | 14:09 |
| dRbiG | anyone here used uae4all? | 14:10 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, yes and the traditional solution to that is known, I've got it already half-implemented, ... | 14:10 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, and that's a battery back or the lesser known mugen powerpack? | 14:10 |
| hrw | alterego: I think that meego may become cellphone user ready in 2012. this does not mean that nokia will not release anything before - they already said few times that Harmattan != MeeGo official release | 14:10 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, my second BL-5J is already lying on my desk, now if Amazon manages somehow to send the stuff that they taken the money for already, I'll have an external charger that can keep the second battery all times charged. | 14:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | I don't understand why wouldn't nokia keep versioning simple.. all maemo/meego should have letter M... all symbian devices has S.. done | 14:11 |
| alterego | hrw: that's why I said after the N9, which I presume is MeeGo/Harmattan | 14:11 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, and you'll have downtime for everytime you swap the battery | 14:11 |
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| yacc | hatake_kakashi, but there are different "symbian" devices. For Multimedia, Fun, Enterprise, ... | 14:12 |
| alterego | I think even as MeeGo stands now, the 1.1 branch could be utilised by vendors, it just requires a lot of love. | 14:12 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, so add -M, -F -E for example.. S3-E | 14:12 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, better a 60seconds downtime, than "couple of hours till I get home" downtime. | 14:12 |
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| yacc | hatake_kakashi, as I'm a G1 refugee, I know the drill. | 14:13 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, or there's the option of carrying a large battery pack and forget about taking it to camping, because that will need to munch on car battery | 14:13 |
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| yacc | hatake_kakashi, and yeah, the down time is irritating, especially the physical handling, but only till you realize that it's still a huge improvement over offline-till-office-or-home | 14:14 |
| yacc | hmmm, | 14:14 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, the drill for battery swapping? meh.. BL-5J isn't even available out in the normal shops.. never ceases to amaze me why they made n900 different battery size and what not.. all is well that it leaves owners high and dry till extras is available | 14:14 |
| yacc | Bl-5J is trivial to pick up, but if you want it cheap, you'll have to order it from Amazon or Ebay, ... | 14:15 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, not so when you can just buy external power packs to keep n900 juiced up | 14:15 |
| alterego | hatake_kakashi: it shares the same battery as the 5800's | 14:15 |
| hatake_kakashi | its not so easy to buy BL-5J out where I live | 14:15 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, as it happens I do have an USB power source powered by standard AA battery slots too, ... | 14:15 |
| hatake_kakashi | alterego, and the same with me brother's X6-16GB | 14:15 |
| yacc | :-P | 14:15 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, well you came prepared didn't ya? :p I'm planning to go buy meself a nice power pack when I go overseas next year | 14:16 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, the battery situation on the N900 is a big improvement over the 9500. There hasn't been any external charger for these babies, ... | 14:16 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, how is it any improvement when: 1) it loses 100+mA 2) There's no retailer that stocks them unless you go to either nokia care centre or you order them online? | 14:17 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, as some people have already confirmed the pattern [female: the battery keeps an eternity, male: the battery is through in less than 12h, on the same device], I'm one of these power suckers, ... | 14:18 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, had it been the same battery as all the other NIT series I wouldn't have to wait to get BL-5J | 14:18 |
| yacc | And the G1 battery pack is | 14:18 |
| hatake_kakashi | I'm sure I still can't readily and easily obtain BL-5J.. what joy | 14:19 |
| yacc | yeah a puny joke were the words I've been looking for. | 14:19 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, first generic solution is an external USB battery. Does not look cool, when you run around with a cable around, but better than a dead device, ... | 14:19 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, I don't understand what you said last about female and male pattern | 14:19 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, and at least your internet tablet/phone is still kept alive despite extra ugly wiring | 14:20 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, or swapping batteries and hope you haven't missed any important calls | 14:20 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, I've observed it with the 9500 and the E61, where my wife and me had exactly the same device, ... | 14:21 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, I've been out of power often during the day, especially if I did not charge completely during the night. | 14:21 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, my wife could leave the phone for days in her handbag. | 14:22 |
| hatake_kakashi | speaking of which about power packs, that nokia's power pack is completely ludicrous.. not only was it fitted with a puny battery, it doesn't even charge my n900 | 14:22 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, I'm sure there are plenty of females who would spend their time blabbering away.. hence that's why phones makes it convenient | 14:22 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, so battery size is always relative to the usage pattern. The N900 battery is absolutely okay for somebody that uses it as a phone and does SMS with it. | 14:22 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, remember the firmware 1.1 and prior to those where n900 had a lovely one-two days uptime? | 14:23 |
| dneary_ | amigadave, ping? | 14:23 |
| dneary_ | amigadave, Are you sure about the change of directory from /usr/share/pixmaps to /usr/share/icons? | 14:24 |
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| yacc | hatake_kakashi, OTOH, if you are online all the time (IM clients e.g.), especially via UMTS (aka your stupid premium network does not offer EDGE inside of cities), you won't last 24h. | 14:24 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, and again I must mention yet again, the due credit to the lack of availability of BL-5J.. | 14:24 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, where are you located that it's so big an issue? | 14:24 |
| yacc | I mean there are at least a dozen sellers on Amazon alone, ... | 14:25 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, not so much of just being online, a couple of widgets, a few hours of bluetooth music and sharing and occasional web browsing and I could see half the battery is drained if I'm lucky | 14:25 |
| dneary_ | amigadave, Never mind... just rereading the spec: "Icons and themes are looked for in a set of directories. By default, apps should look in $HOME/.icons (for backwards compatibility), in $XDG_DATA_DIRS/icons and in /usr/share/pixmaps (in that order). Applications may further add their own icon directories to this list, and users may extend or change the list (in application/desktop specific ways).In each of these directories themes are st | 14:25 |
| dneary_ | ored as subdirectories. A theme can be spread across several base directories by having subdirectories of the same name. This way users can extend and override system themes. " | 14:25 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, .au | 14:25 |
| yacc | inetnum: 115.128.0.0 - 115.131.255.255 | 14:25 |
| yacc | netname: H3GAIPNET | 14:25 |
| yacc | descr: 3G Mobile Service Provider, | 14:25 |
| yacc | yeah, I noticed :) | 14:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | I prefer to source spare BL-5J in proper retail stores than online | 14:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, mm and? | 14:26 |
| hatake_kakashi | btw EDGE isn't available here.. | 14:26 |
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| TermanaDesire | That's not true | 14:26 |
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| hatake_kakashi | which providers have them and they retail N900 then? | 14:27 |
| sezuan | Is anyone aware of a psi build for the n900? | 14:27 |
| TermanaDesire | I'm in Australia - there is EDGE. | 14:27 |
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| TermanaDesire | hatake_kakashi: dodo | 14:27 |
| peb_ | kakashi, 2 times 9V Blocks + USB Adapter go a long way in terms of uptime ... just my 2 cents | 14:28 |
| hatake_kakashi | TermanaDesire, the last I checked dodo doesn't have n900 retailed.. plus they lack retailer shopfrons | 14:28 |
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| hatake_kakashi | s/shopfrons/shopfronts/ | 14:28 |
| infobot | hatake_kakashi meant: TermanaDesire, the last I checked dodo doesn't have n900 retailed.. plus they lack retailer shopfronts | 14:28 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, 3 in Austria is even funnier, they've got only an UMTS license, ... | 14:28 |
| TermanaDesire | Not the best of companies but they do | 14:28 |
| hatake_kakashi | peb_, not that I am particularly handy with d-i-y electronics | 14:29 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, they do commercials about the newest and best 3G network, but nobody realizes why the same mobiles batteries drain so much faster with them :-P | 14:29 |
| TermanaDesire | hatake_kakashi: they list the n900 on their site under contract | 14:29 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, well, I do not buy service and phone from the same source, best way to loose money, ... | 14:30 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, it doesn't mean anything.. most providers here use UMTS and I'm not using my n900's sim card to surf internet right now.. last but not least 3 doesn't retail n900 | 14:30 |
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| yacc | hatake_kakashi, why would you want to buy the N900 with a contract? | 14:30 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, again not really getting the point of not being able to source BL-5J spares | 14:30 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, no network in Austria, AFAIK, offers the N900? | 14:30 |
| hatake_kakashi | TermanaDesire, and there's no shopfronts | 14:31 |
| yacc | hatake_kakashi, ask for batteries for Nokia 5800? | 14:31 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, not Austria, Australia | 14:31 |
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| hatake_kakashi | yacc, only one and they had shop front, crazy johns and they go through vodaphone | 14:31 |
| hatake_kakashi | yacc, tried that, no dice, not even for x6 | 14:32 |
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| TermanaDesire | Anyway if your looking for a battery why not just get one from eBay | 14:33 |
| hatake_kakashi | I said before I don't buy that sort of stuff from internet | 14:33 |
| toggles | hatake_kakashi: http://dealextreme.com has bl-5j | 14:33 |
| hatake_kakashi | I rather buy them from shops | 14:33 |
| toggles | fair enough | 14:33 |
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| hatake_kakashi | toggles, yeah and pay for nice shipping bills to be delivered overseas + again defeats my purpose of not willing to purchase the online | 14:34 |
| hatake_kakashi | despite their rarity | 14:34 |
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| toggles | nope, no shipping, $16US | 14:34 |
| toggles | pretty much australian now.. | 14:34 |
| toggles | parity party anyone? | 14:34 |
| hatake_kakashi | "You may also reach us live by calling (+86) 1353-0080-484, (+86) 13714039173, (+86) 13714478454new!. Our office hour is between 9am to 6pm HKT/GMT+8 (lunch break between 11:45AM and 1:15PM), Monday through Saturday except public and statutory holidays" | 14:35 |
| hatake_kakashi | umm yeah.. that does state they're in Australia | 14:36 |
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| TermanaDesire | hatake_kakashi: he was talking about almost parity between the AU and US dill | 14:39 |
| TermanaDesire | Dollar * | 14:39 |
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| hatake_kakashi | TermanaDesire, for the time being yes but that doesn't mean that you won't have to pay for shipping fees no? | 14:40 |
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| * TermanaDesire rolls eyes | 14:41 | |
| hatake_kakashi | I was at once to the point of wanting to buy BL-5J (at least 3 months ago) but now I just don't see any point when battery packs can keep n900 on and on | 14:41 |
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| TermanaDesire | He was saying the item is $16 US dollars with no shipping fee. Then he remarked "pretty much Australian now" meaning the amount of US dollars equaling about the same in Australian dollars | 14:43 |
| toggles | hatake_kakashi: try this http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.32444 please note the "FREE SHIPPING" listed | 14:43 |
| toggles | they also have a "clone" for $3.67 which I can't attest to, but the one listed as "genuine" works ok, I can't tell which of my batteries is from them | 14:44 |
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| zutesmog | N900 is down below $425 in AU$ from 3 different online retailers. Pretty close to parity with the US. | 14:50 |
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| toggles | .005 left to go.. | 14:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what? kernel mtd is 2MB on N900? OMFG, we got severe problems with 2MB limits for kernels, in OM/OE | 14:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and our limit was just in uBoot env... btw: | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: will meego dual boot uBoot have envs at all? where eare they stored? I suppose in cal, where they "belong" | 14:57 |
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| crashanddie | johnx, have you not seen the $800 3D printers? | 15:03 |
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| ieatlint | the $800 3d printers aren't that nice | 15:05 |
| dneary_ | amigadave, back from lunch? | 15:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, I have a 150$ 3D printer ;-P | 15:07 |
| ieatlint | god, that has to be even worse than the makerbots :P | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | can print enough 3D on transparent plastic to create fake fingerprints from it | 15:07 |
| ieatlint | i'm guessing you were at the ccc a couple years back then | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | I've been always associated to the CCC to some degree | 15:08 |
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| ieatlint | i'm still hoping i'll be able to afford it this year | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | heh, I'm still hoping I'll get tickets this year | 15:10 |
| dneary_ | Stskeeps, Any ideas where I might get definitive docs on the .desktop file parsing? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | luckily this year it's my friend's turn to pay the whole thing for him and me :-) | 15:10 |
| ieatlint | i need friends like that | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | dneary_: the source? | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | hildon-desktop, specifically | 15:11 |
| dneary_ | Stskeeps, That's a start :) Thanks | 15:11 |
| ieatlint | i've actually got a free place to stay in berlin thanks to a friend, but can't drop the airfare+food+booze cost at the moment | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: did you say the kernel can't be >2MB, this morning? | 15:12 |
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| Stskeeps | DocScrutinizer: NAND area is 2mb size, you can load more into ram | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | with uboot you can load larger | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:13 |
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| dneary_ | Stskeeps, http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/05/13feature.html :) | 15:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 2MB turned out to be too small nowadays | 15:14 |
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| Stskeeps | dneary_: yeah.. | 15:14 |
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| * DocScrutinizer feels headache coming while trying to wrap his head around mtdparts | 15:16 | |
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| dneary_ | Stskeeps, I really like that article | 15:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dneary_: I once had the specs for .desktop, but for the life of mine I can't find it anymore - dunno if it was on freedesktop.org, or on some gnome.org page or where else | 15:20 |
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| dneary_ | DocScrutinizer: fd.o | 15:21 |
| dneary_ | DocScrutinizer: The spec actually lists some of the KDE & GNOME extensions, as well as the standard fields | 15:21 |
| dneary_ | DocScrutinizer: But I can't find anything about Maemo extensions | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, yes. Obviously :-/ | 15:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ...though I never noticed there are any | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, now there might be, e.g. for sorting/positioning the icons | 15:24 |
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| amigadave | dneary_: pong | 15:27 |
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| rmrfchik | îÁÂÌÀÄÁÑ ÚÁ ÔÁÎÃÅÍ ÓÔÒÉÐÔÉÚÅÒÛÉ, ÏÎ ÐÏÄÏÛÅÌ Ë ÎÅÊ ÓÌÉÛËÏÍ ÂÌÉÚËÏ, É ÏÎÁ ÓÌÕÞÁÊÎÏ ÕÄÁÒÉÌÁ ÅÇÏ ÎÏÇÏÊ × ÇÌÁÚ. õÄÁÒ ÂÙÌ ÔÁËÏÊ ÓÉÌÙ, ÞÔÏ áÊÒÅÌÅÎÄ ÐÏÌÕÞÉÌ ÐÅÒÅÌÏÍ ÎÅÓËÏÌØËÉÈ ËÏÓÔÅÊ ÞÅÒÅÐÁ, ÒÁÓÐÏÌÏÖÅÎÎÙÈ ÒÑÄÏÍ Ó ÇÌÁÚÏÍ É ÎÏÓÏÍ | 15:43 |
| rmrfchik | oh, noes, wrong channel detected | 15:44 |
| ieatlint | zalgo? | 15:44 |
| rmrfchik | zalgo? | 15:44 |
| crashanddie | rmrfchik, yeah, dont' do that again please :) | 15:45 |
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| rmrfchik | hope, your terminals didn't get broken cause of 8bit | 15:46 |
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| crashanddie | ieatlint, makerbots are actually pretty nice | 15:46 |
| ieatlint | i disagree | 15:46 |
| ieatlint | they are good for their cost | 15:47 |
| ieatlint | and they are a cool project | 15:47 |
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| ieatlint | but they have a lot of issues | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rmrfchik: just my eyes and brain hurts | 15:52 |
| * RST38h comes back to life. Anything I've missed? | 15:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | PR1.7 release ;-P | 15:55 |
| alterego | Anyone have a kernel with working kexec? | 15:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | alterego: see Stskeeps commenting on it yesterday in this chan | 15:56 |
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| alterego | Oh, whoops | 15:56 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Enables WindowsPhone7? | 15:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems all the PR1.3_comes_with_dualboot_for_meego hype is based on fixed kexec | 15:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ...while, ironically enough, aiui meego will not even use kexec as they go for uBoot chainloading now :-P | 15:59 |
| alterego | DocScrutinizer: that's what I wasw thinking, I also thought maybe there's a NOLO update that allows it to bootstrap uboot, as I thought that was the general direction the N900 adaptation team were heading, but I might be wrong. | 15:59 |
| alterego | And as no one has mentioned that .. | 15:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NOLO can chainload right now | 16:00 |
| alterego | Oh, cool | 16:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so there'll be no NOLO update for this issue | 16:00 |
| alterego | uhuh | 16:00 |
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| dsg | yep, works great. I noticed the slow start (fading in LED for 2s before starting the phone) was broken when chainloading uboot, but I guess that's fixed if it's going into an official maemo version :) | 16:01 |
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| RST38h | Doc: So, how will the dual boot procedure look from the end user point of view? | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | aiui you can install meego with uBoot right away, no matter which maemo PR | 16:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: Stskeeps said it's looking for a kernel on uSD, and if it doesn't find any, then it loads the 'standard' maemo kernel | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I hope there'll be a bootmenu as well | 16:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the reason why I asked for uBoot env, where uBoot stores his 'menu' | 16:03 |
| dsg | DocScrutinizer: When I tried the uboot stuff (a couple of months ago) the environment was hardcoded in u-boot | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-( | 16:03 |
| dsg | But that might have changed | 16:03 |
| RST38h | Doc: Ok, so a proper uSD partition is all you need? But once you have that partition, there is no user option to select one or the other? | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | uBoot needs a dedicated mtd partition to store env, afaik | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: that's how I got it yesterday, yes | 16:04 |
| alterego | RST38h: the basic idea was if you've got a MicroSD inserted with a kernel on it, it'd boot MeeGo, then you take that SD out and it'll boot maemo | 16:04 |
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| alterego | Not sure I like that way tbh, but that's what I think Stskeeps has been talking about recently. | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | alternative: rename the kernel(-symlink) on uSD | 16:05 |
| Stskeeps | other ways might be possible, but that's first approach.. | 16:05 |
| alterego | m'kay | 16:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | boot-meego() {mv /media/card/vmlinuz.disabled /media/card/vmlinuz} | 16:07 |
| RST38h | alterego: Given the pain of inserting another uSD, this does not seem to be very user friendly | 16:07 |
| alterego | RST38h: it's not supposed to be ;) | 16:07 |
| RST38h | yea, right | 16:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | boot-maemo() {mv /vmlinuz /vmlinuz.disabled} | 16:07 |
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| alterego | It's not exactly developer friendly either (from my perspective) as you need the SD in in order to flash a new rrtfs | 16:07 |
| alterego | ~rootfs | 16:08 |
| infobot | rootfs is, like, mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: you've seen my suggestion to patch uBoot to keep his ENV in CAL? | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | k | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | however our knowledge of storing stuff into CAL (at least in public) is a little bad | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | and corrupt cal == bad | 16:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | It's born out of the problem we probably don't have a dedicated mtd partition for uBoot to store env there | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: (problems introduced with CAL) ack | 16:12 |
| dneary | amigadave, I guess you saw my response - both icons & pixmaps are OK (icons is searched first) | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Stskeeps: is there any documentation about mkmtdparts and how and in which way N900 NAND is partitioned? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | kernel? think partition table is there | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | though im not sure | 16:14 |
| dneary | Although there must be some way to specify $XDG_DATA_DIRS instead of /usr/share, no? | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not kernel, the real basic partitioning of NAND, creating mtd's and assigning them to CAL, kernel, rootfs, whatnot | 16:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'm not even sure which program/process is supposed to deal with this. Seems flasher not always bothers to check and fix mtd partitions, maybe only on clodflash | 16:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on Openmoko, we had to follow a rather icky process including oddly named tools like devirginator, to create new mtd partitions | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | nand_erase_all and nand_write another few | 16:22 |
| * ShadowJK thought there was no partition table except the one passed as bootargs to kernel.. | 16:22 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | there is *some* partitioning that e.g. uBoot is using, which aiui is stored to env but also somewhere in "partition tables" in NAND | 16:23 |
| amigadave | dneary: sorry, was off for a bit | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | as said above: [2010-10-15 14:16:37] * DocScrutinizer feels headache coming while trying to wrap his head around mtdparts | 16:25 |
| amigadave | yeah, XDG_DATA_DIRS is just an environment variable that one can set | 16:25 |
| dneary | The MeeGo trademark fight's fun to watch | 16:25 |
| dneary | Pity it's so important | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | dneary: even more fun considering opensuse's own trademark rules | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | (worth a look) | 16:27 |
| dneary | amigadave, So you think s/pixmaps/icons improves things? | 16:27 |
| amigadave | dneary: yeah, the file was a PNG after all, not an XPM :) | 16:27 |
| amigadave | it works in pixmaps, but was a little confusing | 16:28 |
| dneary | amigadave, There was one other change I wasn't sure about, but I'm sure you checked it... | 16:28 |
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| amigadave | i checked the Makefile.am changes, so that EXTRA_DIST was not required | 16:28 |
| amigadave | the dist_ prefix already ensures distribution :) | 16:28 |
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| dneary | The changes to Makefile.am were what I was wondering about | 16:30 |
| amigadave | yeah, there is basically no need for EXTRA_DIST, comman fallacy | 16:30 |
| amigadave | s/comman/common/ | 16:30 |
| infobot | amigadave meant: yeah, there is basically no need for EXTRA_DIST, common fallacy | 16:30 |
| dneary | I had understood that NNNdir was used to install NNN_DATE | 16:30 |
| dneary | NNN_DATA even | 16:30 |
| dneary | So pixmapdir -> pixmap_DATA | 16:31 |
| amigadave | yep | 16:31 |
| dneary | And you have icondir and dist_icon_DATA | 16:31 |
| amigadave | there is also nodist_ if the file to be installed is generated and should not be ditributed :) | 16:31 |
| dneary | And desktopdir, dist_desktop_DATA | 16:31 |
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| GAN900 | Why the hell is Xorg eating %16 of the RAM. . . . | 16:51 |
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| mgedmin | it's holding pixmaps for all the clients | 16:52 |
| mgedmin | and it has the frame buffer mmapped into its virtual memory areas | 16:52 |
| mgedmin | etc. | 16:52 |
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| * RST38h agrees with Milhouse: a magic button at boot time feels like the best solution | 16:58 | |
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| GAN900 | HP and Nokia are doing Wife Swap for execs. | 16:59 |
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| njain | Hey all! | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Each is getting rid of someone they no longer want | 16:59 |
| njain | i love my N900 | 16:59 |
| fcrochik | hi...does anybody know if yahoo is usefull anywhere but the US? The APIs they describe seem to assume US as the only option... I don't know if they have a different set api/docs for each country...doesn't seem like | 17:00 |
| alterego | GAN900: not Palm? | 17:00 |
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| njain | but the absense of a button to recieve a call is very bad.. | 17:01 |
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| fcrochik | alterego: Palm=HP | 17:01 |
| alterego | Oh, I did not know that :) | 17:01 |
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| GAN900 | alterego, same thing. | 17:02 |
| jpinx-eeepc | fcrochik: yahoo what? messenger? | 17:02 |
| njain | is there a way to get any other button to pick up the call.. | 17:02 |
| fcrochik | jpinx-eeepc: no...yahoo as "local search"... | 17:02 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: you can set it to autoanswer I believe | 17:02 |
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| njain | but even then its a problem.. | 17:03 |
| jpinx-eeepc | fcrochik: local as in - within the country you'resitting in? | 17:03 |
| ieatlint | fcrochik: oh, don't worry, it's not useful in the US either | 17:03 |
| njain | while i am fetching the phone from my pocket.. | 17:03 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: why? | 17:03 |
| njain | if it autoanswers in that time.. | 17:04 |
| fcrochik | ieatlint: that is what I was afraid... I thought about implementing yahoo (instead of google) search on geeps but I don't think is worth | 17:04 |
| * jpinx-eeepc fails to see the problem with call answering | 17:04 | |
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| fcrochik | jpinx-eeepc: local = search for things around your current position | 17:04 |
| jpinx-eeepc | fcrochik: hell no - google is better by far | 17:04 |
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| hrw | did someone know application which can sync ldap<>maemo contacts? | 17:05 |
| fcrochik | jpinx-eeepc: I assume is better... it is just that google is only json... | 17:05 |
| njain | oh when i get a call i have to recieve it using the touch button.. | 17:05 |
| njain | that auto appears! | 17:05 |
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| njain | i guess? | 17:05 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: I have mine set to manual answer, minimum time to screen off/lock. from ringing in my poccket I only have to flick the side switch to retart the screen and hit answer | 17:06 |
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| ieatlint | heh, yeah, json still sucks in c/c++ .. or at least isn't included in any standard libs | 17:06 |
| fcrochik | ieatlint: I probably will just bite the bullet... I really miss being able to search for a business name ....most of the time I don't know the address | 17:07 |
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| ieatlint | there is qjson, not sure if it's in the repos | 17:07 |
| fcrochik | ieatlint: one thing I have to say about yahoo: I liked the idea that you can search for a place around a path (not just position)... | 17:08 |
| ieatlint | yahoo is better for scripting... the YML stuff can do some very interesting things | 17:08 |
| ieatlint | also, yahoo pipes can be interesting... but no one knows about it | 17:08 |
| njain | in my case when the phone rings the screen is powered on and most of the times when i am travelling i touch reject instead of accept! | 17:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | fcrochik: might work in USA/EU but the rest of the world uses google | 17:08 |
| ieatlint | took a friend who works there to tell me it even existed, heh | 17:08 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: you need to sort out your settings, mine stays screen off but rings | 17:09 |
| fcrochik | ieatlint: qjson is on the repository...I will give a try | 17:09 |
| njain | did you configure some options? | 17:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: of course | 17:09 |
| njain | ok cool | 17:09 |
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| ieatlint | fcrochik: i'll be interested to hear how easily it works.. | 17:09 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: can't remember exactly what - play with it nd see | 17:10 |
| njain | hmm thanks | 17:10 |
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| fcrochik | ieatlint: I also found a simple recipe on to parse json just using the standard script tools.... it didn't seem any better or worst than qjson | 17:10 |
| njain | but still i was thinking in case some button vol/power could be configured to pickup a call | 17:11 |
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| njain | it would be great! | 17:11 |
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| njain | the problem is the bumpy roads here makes me mess up the buttons.. | 17:12 |
| fcrochik | njain: for me the ideal solution would be to have something like the "lock button" enable the buttons.... I was click the reject too | 17:13 |
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| fcrochik | njain: let me try again: for me the ideal solution would to have to slide the "lock buton" to enable the buttons to answer/reject the call (when the phone is locked).... I always click the reject button by mistake | 17:14 |
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| njain | i think i will try your suggestion. | 17:15 |
| njain | and then see if i still need the button. | 17:16 |
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| BCMM | if you required the lock button to be used, you could also permit the use of, for example, vol up and vol down to reject/answer | 17:18 |
| BCMM | which would fix the bumpy roads thing | 17:18 |
| njain | yeah | 17:19 |
| BCMM | i am commenting cluelessly on a conversation i did not hear the beginning off, and will shut up now | 17:19 |
| njain | BCMM: that was what i thinking to map it to | 17:19 |
| BCMM | this whole conversation is happening because somebody already said that, then? | 17:19 |
| fcrochik | BCMM: I said lock button but I was thinking about the "thing" on the right side of the phone...don't know how it is called.... | 17:19 |
| BCMM | yeah, that's the lock switch | 17:19 |
| BCMM | or button, or something | 17:19 |
| BCMM | i don't really know what to call it | 17:20 |
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| BCMM | you know, it really looks as if you need to slide it to open the kb or something | 17:20 |
| fcrochik | BCMM: for me that would be the only safe thing.... I always have my phone on my pocket and anything else could be a false trigger | 17:20 |
| njain | doesn't matter what we call it i think we are getting what lock button is. | 17:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | njain: stop the car to answer the call - it's illegal in most countries to use a phone while driving | 17:21 |
| BCMM | fcrochik: well, you can't press the answer button while the proximity sensor is engaged | 17:21 |
| BCMM | i assumed he was a passenger | 17:21 |
| njain | oh i am not driving. | 17:21 |
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| BCMM | illegal in most countries, stupid in every populated place | 17:21 |
| njain | yeah i am a passenger | 17:21 |
| fcrochik | BCMM: but somehow I managed everytime I remove the phone from my pocket and before I get a chance to look into the screen to not touch the "sensor" and touch somewhere on the screen - usually on the reject button! :) | 17:22 |
| BCMM | it would be nice to be able to answer the phone without touching the screen actually | 17:22 |
| BCMM | for if you're fingers are not very clean | 17:22 |
| BCMM | i was fixing my bike yesterday, and actually answered with my nose | 17:22 |
| BCMM | so as not to leave a greasy black fingerprint | 17:23 |
| njain | BCMM: yes! i agree with you. | 17:23 |
| jpinx-eeepc | make it auto anser | 17:23 |
| jpinx-eeepc | you have options - use them | 17:23 |
| BCMM | actually, isn't there an app to answer with the camera button? or is that just to hang up | 17:23 |
| BCMM | i'm talking about phone speaker switcher or whatever it is called | 17:24 |
| BCMM | the one that lets you switch the speakers on when the proximity sensor detects you taking the phone away from your head | 17:24 |
| jpinx-eeepc | mine is sittng on the desk here propped up on it's tand and it auto answers and goes to speakerphone - no sweat | 17:24 |
| BCMM | actually, that applications is really useful | 17:24 |
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| Corsac | jpinx-eeepc: is it easy to switch mode? | 17:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | Corsac: yes | 17:25 |
| njain | but still there should be someway to configure the button to answer the call | 17:25 |
| jpinx-eeepc | it's like anything - you need to learn how to drive it ;) | 17:26 |
| njain | all this is fine | 17:26 |
| fcrochik | ieatlint: did you see this: http://qtwiki.org/Parsing_JSON_with_QT_using_standard_QT_library | 17:26 |
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| ieatlint | nope | 17:26 |
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| fcrochik | ieatlint: it seems easy enough | 17:26 |
| BCMM | it's neat because otherwise, you have to take the phone away from your head, wait for the screen to turn on, then press the button | 17:26 |
| ieatlint | indeed, that certainly makes it look simple | 17:27 |
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| BCMM | which takes long enough that you have to tell the person on the other end what you're doing so they can stop talking for a bit | 17:27 |
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| fcrochik | ieatlint: qjson sounds cool because you can go c++ -> json too but I don't need that... | 17:28 |
| njain | jpinx-eeepc: i am ready to learn | 17:28 |
| njain | could you suggest me a start place.. | 17:28 |
| ieatlint | yeah, plus simpler to not add extra libs, especially ones that aren't always available | 17:28 |
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| nidO | does fsck included with maemo actually do anything? :\ | 17:37 |
| GAN900 | Yellow journalism in forum threads is getting old. | 17:38 |
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| GAN900 | (titles) | 17:39 |
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| mgedmin | nid0, which fsck? dosfsck or e2fsck? | 17:42 |
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| MohammadAG | nidO, it borked my SD card filesystem twice, so I guess it does :P | 17:43 |
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| mgedmin | dosfsck is very user-unfriendly | 17:45 |
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| mgedmin | if you do not give it a command-line argument, it doesn't write anything to disk | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | it _asks_ "do you want to replair?", you answer (y), it _pretends_ to repair, but because of the lack of that command-line option (-a, iirc), it doesn't actually change anything -- and doesn't tell you it didn't change anything | 17:45 |
| * mgedmin hates | 17:45 | |
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| dneary | Hi again | 17:47 |
| dneary | I'm looking for information again :) | 17:48 |
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| njain | shortcutd is a good option. | 17:57 |
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| * RST38bis moos evilly | 18:07 | |
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| dRbiG | does the standard maemo's multimedia player scan whole MyDocs for stuff or has it some config file where i can restrict where it looks? | 18:14 |
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| dRbiG | i've started using gpodder+pannuci and i really don't like podcast showing up inbetween my music files | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | there is a conf ile | 18:15 |
| dRbiG | veeeri godt :) | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | check wiki, usr:joerg_rw/tools for a link | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | tracker is the sucker | 18:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 18:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | dRbiG: /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg | 18:26 |
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| dRbiG | DocScrutinizer: yeah. i also found a thread how to rebuild the indexes without rebooting | 18:48 |
| dRbiG | as 'reboot' is not in my standard technical vocabulary :) | 18:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | mhm, there's some "tracker-* --foobar" commands to somewhat manage this POS | 18:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the only semi decent way to deal with it were to write a virus to delete every file on every machine in this universe that refers to trackerd/thumbnailer | 18:53 |
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| dRbiG | mh, sound like another openmoko | 18:54 |
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| mgedmin | dRbiG, have you tried turning it off and on again? | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | </itcrowd> | 18:54 |
| dRbiG | ;D | 18:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though tbh it's not exactly tracker that's *BAD*(tm), it's the way maemo (and meego >:-/ ) are using it | 18:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's just one thing that's even worse than the mere fact tracker is used for creating a shadow flat "filesystem index" for all media, and that's the way it is configured to actually accomplish that task | 18:59 |
| oshin | anyone know how to remove the plastic theme setting button that keep appearing on the start of the setting panel? | 19:01 |
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| oshin | it keeps showing "Plastic Theme Setup" for a moment then the button disappear. | 19:02 |
| oshin | I already tried remove --purge but didn't seem to help | 19:02 |
| nidO | mgedmin ad MohammadAG: just fsck - running it followed by any normal switches just prints its version name and does nothing else | 19:03 |
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| mgedmin | hm | 19:05 |
| mgedmin | define 'normal switches'? | 19:05 |
| nidO | well the most straightforward example, running "fsck -A" just returns "fsck 1.41.3.maemo0 (12-Oct-2008)" | 19:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oshin: install another theme? I guess it's like with kernel, you can't simply uninstall a theme, you need to replace it by another (talking outa my ass!) | 19:06 |
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| mgedmin | and /sbin/fsck is a real binary, not a symlink to busybox | 19:06 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 19:06 |
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| mgedmin | I have to say I never tried to run fsck on maemo | 19:07 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, plastic theme one has like.. custom settings panel | 19:08 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, I didn't use the theme anymore but the button to set the theme still exist for a second before the setting app fully started | 19:08 |
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| oshin | like settings app can figure out later that the actual plugin for the setting didn't exist (removed by apt) | 19:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oshin: if it's only for the button appearing though it shouldn't, then it's just poor coding. The button object gets instantiated though some condition checked later on says it shouldn't and removes it. But as long as you actually got that theme, I can't see why you'd not want this button | 19:09 |
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| oshin | DocScrutinizer, I removed the theme, but the button is still there. | 19:10 |
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| DocScrutinizer | oshin: aah, ok, yes probably apt-get --remove doesn't do what you expected it to do | 19:10 |
| oshin | i apt-get remove --purge | 19:10 |
| oshin | how does settings app query for the underlying backends? | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | oshin: it's clearly a bug of that theme pkg. Open a ticket for it | 19:11 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, yes, I just wonder if I could fix this for myself | 19:11 |
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| oshin | so may be I could submit a more descriptive bug report for better karma | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure you can. IIRC there's some XML like file defining all the settings plugins. I assume it's got edited by your theme install, and the remove didn't revert that edit | 19:12 |
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| oshin | i wonder what process i could strace | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | grep for the button string | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-) | 19:13 |
| oshin | lol why i never thought of that | 19:13 |
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| oshin | i did some grepping though | 19:13 |
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| javispedro | morning | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | oshin: not-my-nokia removes a settings menu button - you might want to have a look into it how it's done there | 19:15 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, neat idea, thanks | 19:15 |
| oshin | bah.. busy box grep didn't have --include | 19:15 |
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| * oshin looks for gnu grep | 19:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get install coreutils-gnu | 19:16 |
| javispedro | so I've had to witness the transformation of "pr1.3 might have something that makes booting meego slightly more easier" into "omg nokia is releasing meego! rulz! omg!" by the press. | 19:16 |
| oshin | i already have coreutils-gnu | 19:16 |
| javispedro | not a nice sight. | 19:16 |
| Myrtti | javispedro: welcome to the club | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: usual way things go with the lemmings, no? | 19:17 |
| Myrtti | I saw that already yesterday | 19:17 |
| oshin | dpkg -L coreutils-gnu|grep grep shows nothing eh | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~pr1.3 | 19:17 |
| infobot | STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever | 19:17 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but this means the world is _full_ of lemmings! *sad realization* *cries* | 19:18 |
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| oshin | i just grep for everything, okay | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | oshin: for your convenience: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 19:18 |
| oshin | DocScrutinizer, thanks! | 19:18 |
| oshin | ok, i just grep with find | 19:19 |
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| oshin | anyone know why ari left? | 19:20 |
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| Myrtti | oshin: he does | 19:23 |
| Myrtti | speculation gives me a rash | 19:23 |
| cehteh | HP pays more :) | 19:23 |
| oshin | :) | 19:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: nota bene Stskeeps explained yesterday all that's new in PR1.3 maemo is a fixed kexec, and meego won't use that (so the whole "meego comes with PR1.3 completely obsolete info) as meego will switch - or has switched - to uBoot chainloading so won't need any kexec | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: isn't that double funny? XP | 19:26 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: doesn't surprise me. But fixed kexec is good news (dunno about Meego, I wanted it for some tests of mine). | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure a working kexec is a great thing, but the whole hype is complete nonsense now | 19:27 |
| * MohammadAG attempts to install Kubuntu 10.10 | 19:27 | |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, how much is a displayport adapter? | 19:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | dualboting to meego is here right now aiui, and won't get *any* easier with PR1.3 :-P | 19:27 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: check ebay. hardware wise, dirty cheap. | 19:28 |
| javispedro | err | 19:28 |
| javispedro | DisplayLink, you mean? | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | my bad, that | 19:28 |
| MohammadAG | the one you used with the N900 in May? | 19:28 |
| javispedro | lg panel builtin | 19:28 |
| javispedro | there are three versions of hardware right now iirc | 19:29 |
| javispedro | but they all should be covered by modern libdlo, _unless_ they deprecated it because they were aiming for a proper kernel framebuffer driver | 19:30 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: I wonder who will be the one that will tell tmoers they can run Meego right now if they wanted to... | 19:32 |
| javispedro | will it be their arch-enemy didn't-give-flash-to-me Stskeeps (btw, late congrats!) ? | 19:32 |
| javispedro | engadget: "Hit the source to get fully educated while waiting on the dual-booting PR 1.3 update to drop". How ironic. | 19:34 |
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| javispedro | aha, Flandry told them. Let's hope they listen this time. | 19:38 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, what is the meego image's file system format? | 19:39 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't seem to be ext3 | 19:39 |
| javispedro | btrfs? | 19:39 |
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| MohammadAG | meh | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | Kernel panic with ubuntu | 19:45 |
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| MohammadAG | Attempted to kill init | 19:45 |
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| javispedro | btw MohammadAG, did you know that Madde now has a working system qemu for the n900? | 19:50 |
| javispedro | (I at least didn't) | 19:50 |
| javispedro | It helps for trying images without breaking the battery cover. | 19:51 |
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| RST38h | hurrah | 19:53 |
| RST38h | hello, javispedro btw | 19:53 |
| javispedro | morning | 19:53 |
| * RST38h unsubscribes from Faster Kinetic Scrolling thread | 19:54 | |
| RST38h | coompletely ruined by noise | 19:54 |
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| javispedro | not surprising, it has all necessary keywords | 19:56 |
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| RST38h | What is the current deal with Mohammad's SSU, anyway? | 19:56 |
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| * javispedro wonders how many packages will be bumped in pr1.3 thus breaking ssu | 19:58 | |
| * javispedro prays for nokia gods to pull tracker patches from bmo as I don't want to keep on patching it every time. | 19:59 | |
| RST38h | Forget those fake nokia gods | 19:59 |
| RST38h | Pray to the Tentacled One | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | WTF tracker patches? | 20:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | for tracker even the Tentakled One boggles | 20:01 |
| oshin | anyone know if the swapollube something actually help with battery life? | 20:01 |
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| javispedro | very old ones I sent in -- mostly oneliners fixing typos causing album art discovery to be ... "unreproducible". | 20:01 |
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| RST38h | The only proper tracker fix is the one that disables it =( | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-15 17:53:36] <DocScrutinizer> the only semi decent way to deal with it were to write a virus to delete every file on every machine in this universe that refers to trackerd/thumbnailer | 20:02 |
| * javispedro partially disagrees, but not in a flame mood today =) | 20:03 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hooray for fubar album art - I cursed that one since ages | 20:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-15 17:56:00] <DocScrutinizer> though tbh it's not exactly tracker that's *BAD*(tm), it's the way maemo (and meego >:-/ ) are using it | 20:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-15 17:59:38] <DocScrutinizer> there's just one thing that's even worse than the mere fact tracker is used for creating a shadow flat "filesystem index" for all media, and that's the way it is configured to actually accomplish that task | 20:04 |
| RST38h | There isn't much you can do configuring it on Maemo | 20:05 |
| RST38h | It still comes down to traversing media files | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | *ALL* media files, even though you only *deleted* _one_ lously picture | 20:05 |
| javispedro | heh. | 20:05 |
| RST38h | no | 20:05 |
| RST38h | AFAIK it only checks files you add | 20:06 |
| RST38h | deleting a media file should not invoke it | 20:06 |
| javispedro | it does only check added files for media player at least. | 20:06 |
| javispedro | making it recheck a file (for example for album art retrieval) was quite hard. | 20:06 |
| javispedro | I used to have to delete the entire database quite often. | 20:07 |
| RST38h | there is a way to reset the index, via dbus | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | tracker should use that kernel thing i forgot name of | 20:07 |
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| jacekowski | that notifies about changes | 20:07 |
| javispedro | "inotify"? | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | inotify | 20:07 |
| RST38h | yes | 20:07 |
| jacekowski | yeah | 20:07 |
| RST38h | it does | 20:07 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, not checked it thoroughly - just did a test some 60min ago: take a pic with cam, on preview open galery, delete the pic in galery, close galery, close camslider and cam-gui. Watch load applet hit the roof | 20:07 |
| RST38h | yea | 20:08 |
| RST38h | but I guess it is acting on that initial picture-added event | 20:08 |
| RST38h | just too slow with it | 20:08 |
| nidO | woulsnt that just be tracker running for the newly added picture, just not that quickly | 20:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | whatever it does, it almost freezes the device on doing it | 20:09 |
| javispedro | might it be photo gallery app itself? | 20:09 |
| RST38h | nah | 20:09 |
| RST38h | it is NOT the gallery app | 20:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ah I forgot: "watch galery app adding one thumbnail after the other, for age old pictures that for sure got already thumbnailed" :-( | 20:10 |
| RST38h | got proof of that? | 20:11 |
| javispedro | I do not get the behaviour, trackerd jumped to 7% and tracker-indexer to 2% | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | what kinda proof - my eys see it | 20:11 |
| RST38h | My eyes see tracker trying to index a newly shot photo | 20:11 |
| RST38h | And yes, the goddamn daemon appears to hang the device | 20:12 |
| javispedro | possibly because ls ~/MyDocs/DCIM | wc -l is 200 only on my device | 20:12 |
| RST38h | Most likely due to swapping + data access | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | galery has lots of black photo thumbnails coming up one after the other over 20s, and load applet is at max CPU | 20:12 |
| RST38h | javis: naah, I do not think it matters | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | It seems to me this awful behaviour is new since I copied 13GB of mp3 to MyDocs | 20:14 |
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| RST38h | Doc: I think something else is going on with your device | 20:15 |
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| RST38h | Doc: Dump dbus traffic, during the time when it is hanging | 20:15 |
| RST38h | Just to see what the hell is going on | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | IroN900:~# ls ~user/MyDocs/DCIM | wc -l | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | 104 | 20:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: k | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: system or session bus? | 20:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Doc: All, I guess | 20:17 |
| javispedro | session | 20:17 |
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| javispedro | well | 20:17 |
| RST38h | Doc: And if you can track file accesses, dothat as well | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 20:18 |
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| javispedro | all tracker stuff runs under "user" | 20:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | any suggestions *how* to do that, without running every process under strace control? | 20:18 |
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| javispedro | there's a sysctl setting that dumps such stuff to kernel log afaik | 20:21 |
| javispedro | aha, gotya | 20:22 |
| javispedro | http://soniahamilton.wordpress.com/2009/10/29/monitoring-disk-activity-using-block_dump/ | 20:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | thenumberthenumberthenumber?? err, got a cmdline? | 20:23 |
| dRbiG | hmm, the tracker settings for scanning of mounted/removable cards are well useless | 20:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | virtually all tracker settings are useless | 20:24 |
| dRbiG | but i got it not to scan all MyDocs | 20:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, I'm going to monitor session bus now | 20:24 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: http://sprocket.io/blog/2006/05/monitoring-filesystem-activity-under-linux-with-block_dump/ seems that you need syslogd, so it might not be worth the effort | 20:24 |
| pupnik_ | http://xckd.com/ is epic today... | 20:25 |
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| dRbiG | i had to turn off this second option too | 20:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | do you think I got no syslogd on my device?? :-D | 20:25 |
| javispedro | heya pupnik_ | 20:25 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, qemu? why? | 20:26 |
| pupnik_ | hi javispedro | 20:26 |
| MohammadAG | my battery cover's bottom clip is already broken btw :P | 20:26 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: well, trying stuff before flashing it, specially if you get to use stock kernels | 20:26 |
| MohammadAG | nothing noticeable though, it's as good as before | 20:26 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Is there anything new and exciting happening with your community ssu? | 20:26 |
| pupnik_ | 17:16 <+srogers> Sure, everyone has seen Cheers, but they don't realize what it's like when everyone sees it *at the same time* - because that's all there is for weekday entertainment | 20:26 |
| pupnik_ | oops | 20:26 |
| pupnik_ | someone scrolled right while i was middle clicking | 20:27 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, I want to find the kernel bit that dismounts the mmc when the cover is removed | 20:27 |
| dRbiG | xkcd... yeah the would would be a better place | 20:27 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: your anecdote makes me want not to remove that battery cover never again. | 20:27 |
| dRbiG | i hate phone support | 20:27 |
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| MohammadAG | RST38h, not really, I was working on it, HAM refuses to accept the config | 20:30 |
| MohammadAG | and PR1.3 is close, so :) | 20:30 |
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| javispedro | MohammadAG: wild guess: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/mmc/host/omap_hsmmc.c#373 ;P | 20:30 |
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| MohammadAG | javispedro, already found it with grep lol | 20:31 |
| MohammadAG | drivers/mmc/host/omap_hsmmc.c:/* Protect the card while the cover is open */ | 20:31 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: IMHO as long as apt-get works, HAM is secondary | 20:31 |
| javispedro | ... with the amount of people that have removed the fremantle metapackage due to extras-devel induced chaos | 20:32 |
| MohammadAG | host->protect_card = 1; | 20:32 |
| javispedro | getting HAM to work again without reflashing is going to be a though job. | 20:32 |
| * MohammadAG sets that to 0 muhahaha | 20:32 | |
| RST38h | javispedro: hopefully, the upgrade from mohammad's to pr1.3 should work =) | 20:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: a million thanks for sharing this one :-D | 20:33 |
| javispedro | RST38h: depends on whatever upgraded packages "the fake nokia gods" surprise us with. | 20:34 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, my changes are easily reverseable | 20:34 |
| * javispedro fails at yoda grammar | 20:34 | |
| RST38h | Mohammad: I have not found a way to downgrade back to pr1.2 though | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | apt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.138-1+0m5 to restore modest | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | err, hildon-desktop, why did I say modest... | 20:35 |
| RST38h | mmm? | 20:35 |
| RST38h | ok | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | But I also installed your metapackage | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | same goes for others | 20:35 |
| MohammadAG | you can reinstall the Nokia one once you downgrade all 5 packages | 20:36 |
| RST38h | ah ok | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG | 3.2.13-3+0m5 modest | 20:36 |
| MohammadAG | 0.3.38+0m5 hildon-status-menu | 20:36 |
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| MohammadAG | 0.3.66-2+0m5 hildon-home | 20:36 |
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| MohammadAG | 1:2.2.65-1+0m5 hildon-application-manager | 20:37 |
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| Goliath23 | hi | 20:37 |
| RST38h | New Fringe episode yeste^H^Htoday | 20:37 |
| Goliath23 | where should homescreenwidgets install additional files they need (sounds e.g.) | 20:38 |
| RST38h | Goliath: usually/usr/share/<packagename> | 20:38 |
| Goliath23 | thanks! | 20:38 |
| Goliath23 | and: whats the best way to play a sound in maemo? (QSound is not supported, so I need to resort to something else. if nothing else works, maybe a system call?) | 20:39 |
| javispedro | RST38h: Fringe. They just started airing it on here. What I found most surprising about it was finding "Artificial Intelligence" in the opening' list of fringe sciences =) | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: RST38h: OMFG :-O | 20:39 |
| MohammadAG | use /var/lib/dpkg/info/*list | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | attention spam! | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | method call sender=:1.255 -> dest=org.freedesktop.thumbnailer serial=24 path=/org/freedesktop/thumbnailer/Generic; interface=org.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic; member=Queue | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | array [ | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | string "file:///home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Anastacia.discografia.completa.mp3/Anastacia%20-%20Not%20That%20Kind/anastacia-not%20that%20kind-back.JPG" | 20:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | string "file:///home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Anastacia.discografia.completa.mp3/Anastacia%20-%20Not%20That%20Kind/anas | 20:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | +5000 more | 20:39 |
| javispedro | how you dare. | 20:39 |
| RST38h | javispedro: oh, I always cringe at that list | 20:39 |
| RST38h | Doc: pastebin, please | 20:40 |
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| RST38h | Can't read a thing here | 20:40 |
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| * MohammadAG kicks DocScrutinizer thou dare defy IRC rules? | 20:40 | |
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| RST38h | javispedro: popular ideas about "science" are funny | 20:41 |
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| javispedro | completely. | 20:42 |
| * MohammadAG wants a drum app | 20:42 | |
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| pupnik_ | that might be better with capacitive | 20:42 |
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| RST38h | nah, will do just fine with the nails | 20:43 |
| RST38h | except N900's pressure readings are useless | 20:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: (pastebin) "sorry, length of code exceeds 90k" - that's ONE dbus msg | 20:44 |
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| pupnik_ | RST38h: i've used drum apps before. i think being able to trigger more than one sound at a time is pretty integral to the whole concept of 'drumming', RST38h | 20:44 |
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| RST38h | Doc: ahhaha | 20:45 |
| MohammadAG | screw it | 20:45 |
| * MohammadAG wants drums | 20:45 | |
| RST38h | pupnik: true | 20:45 |
| * MohammadAG waits for Rock Band 3 | 20:46 | |
| RST38h | Doc: So, essentially, this thing may hang because it tries passing the whole list of your media files as a single dbus message? | 20:46 |
| javispedro | this rings a bell | 20:46 |
| Goliath23 | is there a lightweight tool to play a sound from commandline? or maybe a dbus call? (maemo 5 pr 1.2= | 20:46 |
| javispedro | iirc one of those otherwise non-maemo related posts about tracker-"new generation" was that passing results of queries via dbus was über slow | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: http://paste.debian.net/96617/ | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | (partial) | 20:47 |
| javispedro | Goliath23: there's paplay from pulseaudio-utils. You want to do this from a QT application? | 20:47 |
| MohammadAG | Goliath23, play-sound, overrides volume control | 20:47 |
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| Goliath23 | javispedro: yes | 20:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: exactly (one dbus msg) | 20:48 |
| Goliath23 | MohammadAG: volume control shouldn't be overridden in my case | 20:48 |
| javispedro | Goliath23: Have you tried Phonon? | 20:48 |
| RST38h | Doc: That should be visible in a repository somewhere, right? It is open source? | 20:48 |
| Goliath23 | javispedro: QSound? | 20:48 |
| Goliath23 | javispedro: no I haven't ... | 20:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | no idea, sorry | 20:48 |
| MohammadAG | there should be a Q<insertname> thing | 20:48 |
| javispedro | Goliath23: what's wrong about QSound? | 20:49 |
| Goliath23 | javispedro: it isn't supported according to the plpatform notes | 20:49 |
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| javispedro | http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-11555 | 20:49 |
| javispedro | hmpf. | 20:49 |
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| javispedro | Goliath23: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/phonon.html | 20:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bbl, have to run | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/multimedia-audiooutput-audiooutput-cpp.html | 20:50 |
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| javispedro | qt is a damn mess for audio. | 20:50 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Oh well | 20:50 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, Goliath23 why QSound when you can use http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.6/qaudiooutput.html ? | 20:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | just one word: it's amazing dbus doesn't explode on that :-/ | 20:51 |
| RST38h | javispedro: In general, I would avoid Qt APIs outside of their proper GUI domain | 20:51 |
| Goliath23 | MohammadAG: haven't thought about that. I had the impression, QSound would use Phonon. will try it now! | 20:51 |
| RST38h | Doc: I thik I know what happens | 20:51 |
| RST38h | Doc: Thumbnailer seems to ask the database for all jpgfiles in the system | 20:52 |
| RST38h | Doc: Probably via that bastardized SQL query they have (SPARQL?) | 20:52 |
| javispedro | how does he trigger this message? | 20:53 |
| javispedro | I made a picture and got that method call but with only the just taken picture as argument. | 20:54 |
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| javispedro | wait no. | 20:54 |
| javispedro | Not that method_call. | 20:54 |
| javispedro | ah yes, yes. | 20:54 |
| javispedro | =) | 20:54 |
| javispedro | org.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic.Queue aai | 20:55 |
| javispedro | http://maemo.pastebin.com/1eDdx1YH | 20:56 |
| javispedro | deleting it from photo gallery caused org.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic.Delete with that file | 20:58 |
| javispedro | I guess such a large dbus message is not cause but symptom =) | 20:59 |
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| * MohammadAG watches as the silver thingy around the camera lens decomposes into black shit | 21:03 | |
| javispedro | "This bug means that any application using QAudioOutput will randomly hang or crash - sometimes even taking the complete desktop with it. " sigh. | 21:04 |
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| MohammadAG | LOL | 21:08 |
| kerio | and they wonder why people keep using stuff like pulseaudio | 21:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro:may be both symptom and the reason | 21:08 |
| kerio | :> | 21:08 |
| RST38h | javispedro: depends on how much time sqlite takes to compute it, and how much time thumbnailet takes to process it | 21:09 |
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| javispedro | RST38h: the question is why such a big query | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | javispedro: SELECT Name WHERE TYPE='IMAGE' | 21:10 |
| RST38h | javispedro: feeling like looking at the sources? | 21:10 |
| javispedro | nobody sane would make such a query for every photo deleted/added | 21:11 |
| javispedro | well... | 21:11 |
| RST38h | They are here: http://hildon-thumbnail.sourcearchive.com/ | 21:11 |
| javispedro | RST38h: did you see http://maemo.pastebin.com/1eDdx1YH ? | 21:11 |
| javispedro | that's what I get, much saner results. | 21:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: I will have to babysit for the next 15-30 minutes, so take a look | 21:11 |
| RST38h | javispedro: looks correct, indeed | 21:12 |
| RST38h | I should try it myself, in 20-30 minutes | 21:12 |
| RST38h | Look, maybe Doc's filesystem reports wrong file modification dates??? | 21:12 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: Goliath23: while on the topic of QT audio, http://labs.danilocesar.com/blog/2010/10/14/beat-maker-a-drum-loop-application-written-with-qt/ | 21:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: too much LSD? | 21:13 |
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| javispedro | "After a long discussion I’ve realized that phonon could not be used [...]. At this time I’m using an approach suggested [...] : play the sound using pulseaudio’s API." | 21:13 |
| * RST38h silently weeps for the /dev/dsp* | 21:14 | |
| * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to subject all audio framework designers to severe punishment | 21:15 | |
| GAN900 | I wonder how the architecting of that stuff could go so wrong. | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<javispedro> nobody sane would) you're suggesting galery and mediaplayer concept has been written by sane people? MUHAHA | 21:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: the use of tracker clearly proves the opposite | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Audio, you mean? Really easy | 21:17 |
| * DocScrutinizer joins in silent weeping, but for alsa dmix | 21:17 | |
| RST38h | GAN: All you need to do is abstract from the actual code development and concentrate on the Structured Architectural Design | 21:18 |
| RST38h | GAN: And then you lay a turd. | 21:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :-D :nod: | 21:18 |
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| RST38h | GAN: Same goes for Tracker, btw | 21:20 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: well yes, may Maemo sanity be with all of you =) | 21:21 |
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| * javispedro goes try this beat maker app, might make for a nice "drum app" | 21:22 | |
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| javispedro | open source software released on ovi store??? ohnoes | 21:22 |
| GAN900 | Fennec. | 21:23 |
| javispedro | touché :) | 21:23 |
| Jaffa | Repackege it effor Eextras '=-) | 21:24 |
| GAN900 | "Because we're too incompetent for packaging which'll get through the autobuilder." | 21:24 |
| RST38h | btw, Nokia Launchpad is now free | 21:24 |
| RST38h | and they offer Ovi Store publishing | 21:24 |
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| GAN900 | Jaffa, no, you stab your eyes out with rusty spoons. | 21:24 |
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| RST38h | GAN: 1) No wonder Firefox cannot get through autobuilder 2) they can still place it into non-free | 21:25 |
| RST38h | What REALLY makes me wonder is why they create a new deb repository for EACH FireFox package release, even if it is just a beta | 21:25 |
| javispedro | "non-free-political-reasons", "non-free-tech-reasons" | 21:26 |
| RST38h | who cares about the reasons? | 21:27 |
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| RST38h | as far as I am concerned, it is just a way to publish a package that for whatever reason cannot be run through the autobuilder | 21:27 |
| MohammadAG | nothing cannot be run through the autobuilder | 21:28 |
| javispedro | well. | 21:28 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, incompetence. | 21:29 |
| javispedro | depends on the level of readability of the source I'd say. | 21:29 |
| javispedro | you can always pass base64'd binaries as source package, and call unbase64-ing them "building" =) | 21:30 |
| RST38h | yeah | 21:30 |
| RST38h | but that would be cheating | 21:30 |
| RST38h | imho just placing them into non-free is less cheating | 21:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: RST38h: well, I can't really complain - I *asked* for galery showing *all* pictures, when I clicked on that little icon bottom right in camera-ui it opens up "/all pictures/DCIM/20101015_001" and when closing this it climbs up the "path" | 21:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | on closing window after window finally you end on "all pictures/" and that window *must* ask for a dbus-msg of that structure, size, and content | 21:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the basic issue is (once again) tracker searching directories it never should touch | 21:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as in "Darn, I *do not want* cover art of my mp3 stuff showing up in galery!" | 21:37 |
| javispedro | that's an interesting issue actually | 21:38 |
| javispedro | known cover art doesn't show up | 21:38 |
| MohammadAG | it earns my WONTFIX ;P | 21:38 |
| RST38h | hm | 21:38 |
| * MohammadAG thinks bugs.maemo.org is dead | 21:38 | |
| RST38h | no shit sherlock | 21:38 |
| * javispedro looks into his photo gallery to see all his cover art showing up. this broke again, I guess. | 21:38 | |
| RST38h | it is not just cover art | 21:40 |
| RST38h | even applications artwork shows up | 21:40 |
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| javispedro | that should definitely not happen, unless applications store their artwork on ~ | 21:41 |
| RST38h | javis: some store stuff in MyDocs | 21:41 |
| * javispedro has bunches of theme hospital artwork (& media) on gallery, but that's because theme hospital requires case insensitive fs. | 21:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | (<javispedro> known cover art doesn't show up) sure, because braindamaged mediaplayer doesn't recognize *.jpg - it only can detect embedded cover art aiui | 21:42 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: oh, it does recognize whatever you throw at it, as long as you pull all bmo patches in. | 21:42 |
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| javispedro | without them, whatever it discovers art or not is pretty much random | 21:43 |
| javispedro | as there's at least ONE bug that cause it to forget about such art randomly | 21:43 |
| javispedro | gotcha | 21:43 |
| javispedro | got the über large .Queue message, it just overflown my xterm | 21:44 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: Looks like you may want to add a modified Tracker to your SSU :) | 21:44 |
| RST38h | javispedro: whadidyoudo | 21:44 |
| javispedro | was browsing photo gallery using the "Filter by Folder" menu item | 21:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the WHAT? | 21:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, never realized that one | 21:45 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, hmm? what modified tracker? | 21:46 |
| javispedro | rdfq:Condition> <rdfq:and> <rdfq:inSet> <rdfq:Property name="File:Path" /> <rdf:String>/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM,/media/mmc1/DCIM</rdf:String></rdfq:inSet> </rdfq:and></rdfq:Condition> | 21:46 |
| javispedro | there you have the responsible sparql query | 21:46 |
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| javispedro | ... or maybe not, seems not to search inside all of ~ | 21:47 |
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| * DocScrutinizer chokes | 21:47 | |
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| pupnik_ | ? | 21:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | sparql - yuck | 21:48 |
| javispedro | either way, dunno, I cannot reproduce it without enabling weirdo filters. | 21:48 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: RST38h suggest that maybe your mtimes from your files are broken | 21:48 |
| javispedro | *suggested | 21:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer shrugs | 21:49 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | how could they? | 21:49 |
| javispedro | I mean, in the future or sth. | 21:49 |
| dolp | how could i find out why my widget just disappears from the desktop after a while | 21:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | what means 'broken'? | 21:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | umm | 21:49 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: Doc says there are patches to tracker in some bmo thread | 21:51 |
| javispedro | ones I remember right now: bug #9316, bug #9317 | 21:51 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9316 Tracker doesn't run album art heuristics for non-mp3 audio files | 21:51 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9317 Tracker doesn't import album art from .mediaartlocal at all | 21:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | bash-3.2$ stat /home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Depeche\ Mode_Rock/Depeche\ Mode\ -\ Precious.mp3.jpg | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Access: (0644/-rw-r--r--) Uid: (29999/ user) Gid: ( 0/ root) | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Access: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.000000000 | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Modify: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.000000000 | 21:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Change: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.000000000 | 21:53 |
| javispedro | bug #7413, etc | 21:53 |
| povbot | Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7413 Cover art not shown for Ogg Vorbis files | 21:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bug1: mediaplayer is broken by design | 21:55 |
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| RST38h | You can just as well clam the whole Maemo5 broken | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, there's a lot of nice clean things, like... errr.... waitaminute.... | 21:59 |
| * javispedro still uses winamp as mediaplayer on desktop for some reason. an outdated version. under wine. | 21:59 | |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, gconf? | 21:59 |
| * MohammadAG laughs diabolically | 21:59 | |
| DocScrutinizer | GRRRRRRRRRRRR | 21:59 |
| RST38h | javis: same here, winamp on windows | 22:00 |
| * DocScrutinizer shudders | 22:00 | |
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| pupnik_ | javispedro: i've done that too (re winamp) | 22:02 |
| pupnik_ | back when xmms started crapping out on long playlists | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | 52AACFLRM: do you think this is a nice nick making your non-botty nature obvious to everybody? | 22:02 |
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| wolf^ | javispedro, foobar2000 is better than winamp | 22:04 |
| javispedro | possibly will work better under wine, without funky windowing behaviours. | 22:05 |
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| pupnik_ | i liked foobar2k also | 22:12 |
| pupnik_ | now it's usually just mplayer, or maybe qmmp | 22:12 |
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| ShadowJK | oh wow | 22:28 |
| * ShadowJK hates radio | 22:28 | |
| pupnik_ | wow, "cheeky monkey" was a very early-90s phrase wasn't it | 22:28 |
| * SpeedEvil loves radio. | 22:29 | |
| SpeedEvil | BBC+++ | 22:29 |
| ShadowJK | So I thought I had found this amazing hotspot of 3g in the room | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | but then it went to 0 at some point | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | The 3g phone was ontop of an envelope | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | I hadn't noticed, but under the envelop was a USB extension coord that dangled down towards the floor | 22:30 |
| ShadowJK | when I removed the coord, 3g signal went down by 20dB | 22:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | RF is voodoo | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can ask any RF EE to confirm this | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | even more amazingly, it only seems to "work" with the cable running close to the bottom of the phone, at a specific angle and specific distance | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | sire os | 22:32 |
| ShadowJK | sure is* | 22:32 |
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| ShadowJK | The very fucked up thing is, that if Nokia Energy Profiler's readings are to be believed, this little cable, when correctly aligned, works better than purpose built inductive couplers | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you're interested in RF voodoo tales, just follow up the whole buzzfix story at OM | 22:33 |
| GAN900 | You think we'll miss cellphones that make speakers click in 10 years? | 22:33 |
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| ShadowJK | touching the metal parts of the phone makes the headphones connected to my PC buzz | 22:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | athena rework is one of my favourites | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | oh that was the solution | 22:35 |
| * ShadowJK put piece of paper between cable and phone, and signal jumped from 0 bars to full bars (wtf?) | 22:36 | |
| DocScrutinizer | http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/GSM_EMI_noise/noise_stopped_by_athena_rework/ | 22:36 |
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| truder | hi, i wonder if anyone can help me, just got a new n900, but for some reason, i cannot get my wifi to work. it never detects any signals. (Tried flashing (including emmc), but still nothing. something strange i'm noticing is that when i type; ifconfig wlan0 up u get: SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such device | 22:45 |
| MohammadAG | check dmesg output | 22:48 |
| * ShadowJK 'd return it | 22:48 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | iwlist wlan0 scan | 22:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lsmod|grep wl12xx | 22:53 |
| truder | with dmesg (assuming i did it correctly), i got the same messsage | 22:53 |
| truder | i wrote: "dmesg | ifconfig wlan0 up" | 22:53 |
| truder | if i simply write; dmesg | ifconfig wlan0 | 22:53 |
| truder | i get the details for the interface | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | dmesg | grep wlan | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 22:54 |
| truder | i get no output for that | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | oh gah, I think it was the combination of extension coord, and (unconnected) rolled up nokia microusb cable a bit further away | 22:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's the result of >>iwlist wlan0 scan<< then? | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | voodoo :-( | 22:55 |
| truder | DocScrutinizer: i need to install the wireless tools for that right ? | 22:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | not sure, don't think so | 22:55 |
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| truder | got iwlist: not found. ( when i had wireless tools, prior to flashing, i got something like the interface is not in a state to perform this command ) | 22:56 |
| truder | or some message to the same effect | 22:56 |
| truder | i'm starting to think it's a hardware problem, but i wanted to make sure before returning | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | id ? | 22:57 |
| truder | id means ? (sorry i'm quite green to this ) | 22:57 |
| MohammadAG | does ifconfig even list the interface? | 22:57 |
| truder | simply typing : ifconfig, i don't get it listed no | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: you're root? | 22:58 |
| truder | if i type ifconfig wlan0 i see the details | 22:58 |
| ShadowJK | wireless tools aren't installed by default | 22:58 |
| truder | DocScrutinizer, yes, using rootsh | 22:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, my installed-aps.sh doesn't mention any wireless tools I ever installed | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe they come as a dependency of some weird pkg? | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | or I installed them long before I 'invented' my logged apt-get | 23:00 |
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| truder | when i try manually typing the commands found at: http://wiki.maemo.org/Desktop_Command_Execution_Widget_scripts#Enable.2Fdisable_Wi-Fi | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | iwlist is part of wireless-tools | 23:02 |
| truder | starting from the else part, i get to start wlancond successfully, but then the next cmd fails :/ | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: let's start with >>osso-product-info|grep RELEASE_VERSION | 23:02 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, mobilehotspot depends on it | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: though I never installed that | 23:03 |
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| truder | OSSO_PRODUCT_RELEASE_VERSION='10.2010.19-1' | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | cat /var/lib/dpkg/stats | less | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | err | 23:04 |
| truder | ( i installed the global version ) | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | cat /var/lib/dpkg/status | less | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | then /wireless | 23:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: how far you got with your generic customer service script? | 23:04 |
| MohammadAG | truder, what does lsmod | grep wl output? | 23:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Mohamo lessmadAG: odds are he got n | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohamomadAG: odds are he got no less | 23:05 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, that was for you lol | 23:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | uhh | 23:05 |
| truder | MohammadAG, i got a couple of lines, would you need all info ? | 23:06 |
| MohammadAG | no, only the wlan driver, wl12xx 77568 0 | 23:06 |
| truder | wl12xx 76864 0 | 23:06 |
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| MohammadAG | so the module's loaded, hmm | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Package: wireless-tools | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Status: install ok installed | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'm not any wiser now | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | you installed it on your own then | 23:07 |
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| pupnik_ | surreal video game video - "8 Bits" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLpkjtWuPs8 - for the Emulator guys | 23:07 |
| MohammadAG | you are now :P | 23:07 |
| vanadismobile | hai thar | 23:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | (<MohammadAG> so the module's loaded, hmm) mmpf ->[2010-10-15 21:53:15] <DocScrutinizer> lsmod|grep wl12xx | 23:09 |
| truder | btw, i got two other lines which contain, the wl112xx: "mac80211 122954 1 wl12xx" and "crc7 1216 wl12xx" | 23:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 23:11 |
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| MohammadAG | my N900's very hot :/ | 23:11 |
| truder | mine will soon be very smashed against the wall hehe | 23:12 |
| MohammadAG | truder, I'm assuming you have no custom kernels installed? | 23:12 |
| MohammadAG | ls /sys/class/net/wlan0/ | 23:12 |
| truder | no i flashed the image and the emmc, and installed the official bin files | 23:13 |
| truder | ( latest obviously ) | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get install wireless-tools | 23:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | iwlist wlan0 scan | 23:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | truder: rereading your original issue description, I got to ask: what are you doing to "get wlan to work" ? | 23:18 |
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| truder | DocScrutinizer, basically, i tried with different wifi routers (no security and broadcasting ssid) | 23:19 |
| truder | and it didn't detect any of them | 23:19 |
| truder | whilst laptop and other mobiles | 23:19 |
| truder | detect them | 23:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | maemo connectivity isn't exactly standard, so not all tools/procedures you might expect will work the way they usually do | 23:20 |
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| truder | so i've discovered | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: I'm just interested in what you did *on N900* | 23:20 |
| MohammadAG | however, it should just work | 23:20 |
| truder | DocScrutinizer; ok, so i click on the icon next to the battery display, i then click on: "internet connection" | 23:21 |
| truder | and i wait for it to search for a network | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | like in "clicking system status area, clicking 'connections'..." | 23:21 |
| truder | and it never returns anything | 23:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, thanks. that's standard method | 23:21 |
| MohammadAG | can you install sysklogd, and reboot the device? | 23:21 |
| truder | i've also tried going to settings, adding a new connection, " scan for available wlan networks > yes | 23:22 |
| truder | and same results | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd go for iwlist rather | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, iwlist won't do anything to help if his hardware is broken | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suspect a hw-defect | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | exactly my point | 23:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: neither will syslog | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | HW errors should show up in dmesg | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | not if the device is logically ok | 23:23 |
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| truder | in progress, as i'm setting up internet via my operator settings | 23:23 |
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| lcuk | DocScrutinizer, ? generic customer service script? | 23:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | iwlist will either barf when device is logically nonfunct, or it will simply show nuttin if antenna is borked | 23:23 |
| truder | ( i guess there is no .all package i can simply copy to my mobile and install right ? they'd need more dependencies ) | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | Sep 22 23:48:40 Nokia-N900 kernel: [26991.086273] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev 4.0.4.3.7) | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | should error out ^ | 23:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | lcuk: you came up with an isea about doing a low level "healthcheck" and aggregating things like osso-product-info etc pp into one file and upload to pastebin | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, already done with phone-control, I just haven't documented it | 23:25 |
| lcuk | ahh yes, no, other things sidetracked | 23:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: not if transceiver or antenna is defect | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | phone-control --diagnostics | 23:25 |
| lcuk | this big keyboard is awful | 23:25 |
| MohammadAG | should write all that standard info into MyDocs in one file | 23:25 |
| lcuk | fullsize 10x click | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | truder: did it ever work? how old is the device? | 23:26 |
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| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=C5TiEH7c | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | 15SAAYYCR: damn, what's that with those funny nicks? | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nice start | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, any ideas what I could add to the above commands? again they're in the current phone-control package in -devel, just not in --help | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | lsmod? | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | indeed | 23:29 |
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| DocScrutinizer | cat /dev/mtd2? | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | or somesuch? | 23:30 |
| truder | it's only a couple of days old :/ and no so far wifi has never worked for me | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | mtd2 hmm | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | bootreason | 23:30 |
| MohammadAG | ah, logs | 23:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | those notorious dsme logs | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ps | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | lshal | 23:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | truder: swap! | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: hw defect | 23:32 |
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| Venemo | hi guys | 23:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo Venemo | 23:33 |
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| truder | so, iwlist wlan0 scan: Interface doesn't support scanning: Network is down | 23:35 |
| truder | trying sysklogd now.. | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: either your wlan RX is broken, or the wifi antenna is defect. You could investigate further to tell apart, but to what benefit? | 23:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: open up the 'connections' in system status, then try again iwlist | 23:36 |
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| truder | DocScrutinizer, I tend to agree with you, HOWEVER, i saw a number of posts in different sites, where people had the same or similar problems, and some solution or other (though i seem to have tried all now), including flashing.. solved them (for some at least ) | 23:37 |
| truder | hope is the last to die.. :( | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | truder: of course wlan system is powered down when not associated to AP and not scanning (started by maemo obscure connectivity framework) | 23:37 |
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| truder | DocScrutinizer: "open up the connections" in system status: is this "internet connections" in settings? Or is there some menu i'm missing | 23:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | the first method you mentioned before | 23:38 |
| truder | ah ok | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | "clicking the icon right to battery..." | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | you see a small spinning progress clock in the top black bar, right to "change or stop connection" | 23:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | spinning means it's doing a 'iwlist wlan0 scan' as well (or something similar) | 23:41 |
| truder | ah same thing.. no connections available | 23:41 |
| truder | i'll just take it back to have it exchanged | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | what does 'iwlist wlan0 sca' say | 23:41 |
| truder | i guess i've expired all the options | 23:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 23:42 |
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| truder | no reply at all now | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | wlan chip broken, or firmware defect. check md5 of firmware file | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | (though when you flashed a fresh clean image... :-/ ) | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's supposed to 'just work' | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | swap! | 23:43 |
| truder | yep, that will be it | 23:43 |
| truder | thanks a lot for your time DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 23:43 |
| truder | much appreciated guys | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | come back with your new device :-D | 23:43 |
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| truder | i will. i'm sure it's a good phone.. assuming it works :) | 23:44 |
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| * DocScrutinizer files another bill to nokia customer support :-P | 23:46 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: lsusb? :-P | 23:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: cat /sys/*/*/*/*/* :-P | 23:47 |
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| truder | btw, out of curiousity, what should the syslogd show me ? or what should i do for it to show me something ? | 23:48 |
| Venemo | hi again | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | cat /var/log/syslog | 23:48 |
| Venemo | my N900 became faulty since yesterday | 23:49 |
| GAN900 | Ha, what do you think level 3 support gets paid at Nokia? | 23:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | truder: basically syslog will have same info like dmesg | 23:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | just not crippled | 23:49 |
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| Venemo | hi | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: should suffice for my beer tonight | 23:50 |
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| Venemo | I dropped the N900 accidentally yesterday | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: not yours now :-/ | 23:50 |
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| Venemo | since then, it reboots at random times | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ugh | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | bootreason? | 23:51 |
| Venemo | and it also goes into reboot loops when it feels like it | 23:51 |
| Venemo | various... sw_rst and 32wd_to | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: was battery popping out, or device was off after drop? | 23:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or rebooted immediately after drop? | 23:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if so, odds are your fs got corrupted -> full reflash | 23:53 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: it was on, battery didn't pop out | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, do a full reflash anyway | 23:54 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer: then it began behaving oddly | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | last resort | 23:54 |
| Venemo | I did a reflash a couple of hours ago already | 23:54 |
| Venemo | didn't help | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | :'( | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | hw defect | 23:54 |
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| DocScrutinizer | only thing you *could* try: get a new battery. Sometimes they suffer seriously from impact | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | but honestly, I doubt that will help | 23:55 |
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| truder | syslog shows the following when i try ifconfig wlan0 up; warning wlan not ready and then error unsupport chip id: 0x0 | 23:56 |
| truder | unsupported* | 23:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hw defect, definitely | 23:57 |
| truder | i see | 23:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | chip id 0x0 is bogus | 23:57 |
| Venemo | sorry, things keep crashing all the time | 23:57 |
| * lcuk ties Venemo down | 23:57 | |
| Venemo | lcuk, the IRC client crashes... | 23:58 |
| lcuk | Venemo, ahh | 23:58 |
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| lcuk | how in gods name did I used to like typing on this big keyboard | 23:59 |
| lcuk | it feels like an old manual typewriter | 23:59 |
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| Venemo | lcuk, what? | 23:59 |
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