IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-10-15

Venemofcrochik: on IRC, for one00:00
alteregoYeah, if you want votes you need to ask people to do it, on tmo or here, blog about it, ask mates :)00:00
pupnikpretty frustrating to spend your time on this rather than coding eh fcrochik00:00
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fcrochikVenemo: is is always an option but I still thing that the process can be improved... I don't want to have to bug people all the time.... I still think the best idea would be to integrate appdownloaded+fap!!! :)00:01
Venemofcrochik: well I don't use fap... :)00:01
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fcrochikVenemo: I don't necessary mean FAP... just having an application manager that includes rating, reminders (and wouldn't hurt to be a little quicker).... I think the FAP interface could use some TLC but it works pretty good... what don't you like about it?00:03
Venemofcrochik: about fap?00:03
fcrochikVenemo: yes00:03
pupnikfcrochik: you're right that the voting should be doable from an app00:03
Venemofcrochik: I dunno, probably the attitude of the author00:03
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fcrochikI don't know who the author is....00:04
Venemofcrochik: I don't recall it either, but I talked to him on TMO00:04
Venemofcrochik: I asked him if he would contribute to HAM the way he made fap faster00:05
fcrochikVenemo: I don't blame you...from time to time I also want to just give up on the whole thing... You spend your time and then have to hear some very silly things00:05
fcrochikVenemo: I remember reading this post (didn't remember was yours).00:06
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Jaffafcrochik: appdownloader has exactly those features.00:06
Venemofcrochik: well, I don't blame him, HAM's code is a big mess. But it would be the right thing to do to fix that one app with community effort instead of every guy and his dog making his own app manager00:06
* Jaffa needs to find the fapman author (or source) and see if it prefers -devel over other repos with the same binary00:07
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fcrochikJaffa: oh yeah! I love it (appdownloader)... a few minor tweaks, being able to install software and being able to access extras-testing, an automatic reminder like "you installed XXX one week ago would you like to rate it" and we would have a winner for me00:08
nidOtried kisstester?00:09
fcrochikVenemo: I know what you mean but I need to give him some credit because I would not know where to start with the hildon app manager... Qt was my way to get into linux00:09
Venemofcrochik: for me too :)00:09
Venemofcrochik: that's why I said I don't really blame him00:10
fcrochiknidO: Yes. And I think is great idea... but again it is one more tool! I, and assume everybody else, would prefer to have one single tool to deal with packages.... I hate that my packages get stuck so from time to time I try to vote for the applications I know that are seating there... but just the fact that I need to remember to go ther does not help....00:11
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Venemofcrochik: btw, I never got the chance to congratulate you for the app dev competition :)00:12
dRbiGand i still kinda don't like Qt00:12
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nidOfcrochik - I think half the problem with mycontacts is probably that it's in non-free, I imagine a lot of people testing only tend to look at free as traditionally there've hardly been any packages go through wityh no source00:12
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fcrochikVenemo: congratulations to you too! Of course we never had a chance for the first place :(00:13
Venemofcrochik: yeah00:13
Venemofcrochik: QBW is a win... sorta swiss army knife00:13
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Venemofcrochik: why I uninstalled MyContacts is because it is incompatible with ringtoned (not sure whether you fixed that yet)00:13
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fcrochiknidO: I could start the discussion about the non-free x free but the truth is that I just started it as non-free because didn't have time to fight the autobuilder....00:14
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fcrochiknidO: Of course I would not mind one day finding a way to pay my bills writing maemo software!00:16
nidOwell its not a debate so much on the rights and wrongs of free v non-free, its purely that the QA list can be viewed either as everything, free, or nonfree, and I imagine most people just tend to look at the free list only00:16
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Jaffafcrochik: Well, some people would argue that if you can't spare the time to help the community to provide source (because one day you *will* be gone), why should they spend their time helping test your app?00:16
Venemofcrochik: back to the previous subject, I did download and look at HAM's code, and it is indeed utter crap00:17
Venemofcrochik: I think there's place for some optimalizations though00:17
fcrochikJaffa: I would hope that by now people realize that I am willing to help the community... and even more that mycontacts free or non-free helps the community every day00:17
lcukfcrochik, whats your app again?00:18
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Venemolcuk, his app is MyContacts00:18
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fcrochikVenemo: I have to wonder if is worth fixing it just because was the original one... I have to say that I would much rather invest time on a Qt based application ... if not because is what I can understand because unfortunately is the future00:19
fcrochiklcuk: mycontacts, wake on lan, macuco2, geeps... and I packaged libircclient-qt and communi this week00:20
Venemofcrochik: on MeeGo perhaps. but MeeGo already has its own Qt-based (even more: MeeGo Touch based) app manager (I guess)00:20
Venemowhat may be the cause of my N900's random reboots?00:21
wmaronewhat does /proc/bootreason say?00:22
* wmarone rages at fedora00:22
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* SpeedEvil rages against the dying of the light.00:22
Venemowmarone: sw_rst00:22
* SpeedEvil plugs the light back in.00:22
fcrochikVenemo: I don't know that I believe that we will ever update our n900 to meego but if there is a way to benefit from meego is to backport qt applications to maemo...00:23
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* cehteh isnt even sure if he wants to upgrade to 1.3 00:24
Venemofcrochik: well, this also brings up the question of deb vs rpm00:24
cehtehonly a much improved modest would make me happy00:24
nidOimproved = replaced*00:25
Venemocehteh: did you check MohammadAG's community SSU repo?00:25
cehtehwhatever, lets make it short: a working email client00:25
cehtehVenemo: i saied *much* :)00:25
Venemocehteh: it has a newer modest, works quite nicely for me00:25
cehtehimap idle? .. subscriptions, threaded mails, notify only on selected folders?00:26
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fcrochikVenemo: yes... I didn't say it would be easy :) but if we have the source code for a qt application we can create the package... Now that I was able to get the first applicatrion that I didn't create package I have more hope that is not that difficult :(00:26
nidOthe fact that nokia intentionally disabled imap idle without simply making it a configurable option utterly baffles me00:26
Venemocehteh: I don't think so... but it has a bunch of bug fixes00:26
cehtehwell bug fixes comes next to usability :)00:27
cehtehcurrently its mostly unuseable to me, i dont even see bugs00:27
Venemofcrochik:  :)00:28
VenemoI dropped the N900 today (accidentally)... on concrete00:28
Venemomight that be related to the random rebooting thing?00:29
cehtehnidO: the underlying lib has some problems with power-saving and imap idle00:29
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Venemoit hasn't really done such a thing before, so I'm afraid00:29
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cehtehVenemo: there are no much moving parts, but the pcb might have a crack or some soldering came loose00:29
cehtehthat would be really bad00:29
nidOcehteh: "it drains battery" isnt really a reason to prevent it from being selectable atall imo. there are countless ways of draining the device's battery faster than you can blink, I dont see why nokia chose to cripple the mail client in yet another way just to prevent one of them00:30
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Venemocehteh: or it might be some other issue... a reflash is overdue anyways00:30
Venemocehteh: I certainly hope for the latter00:31
ieatlintoh no, is down00:31
cehtehnidO: well yes, but implement it in a good way would be the solution00:31
fcrochikfunny: out of the blue just saw a message "the email client closed unexpectedly" (or something to the same effect)... I was not even using the phone00:31
Venemofcrochik: anyways, HAM could be made actually usable with a few clever modifications00:31
nidOofc, thats ideal, and disabling it entirely is the worst solution really, with having it an option, despite being a power drain, being the obvious middle ground (to me at least)00:32
SpeedEvilNokia UI people hate options.00:32
fcrochikVenemo: but what about the features missing? I would assume we would not be able to combine it with appdownloader to get the comments, votes, thumbnails, ...00:32
nidOid rather be moaning that I have a functioning mail client but that means I have to recharge more often, than having a mail client I simply cant use for mail.00:32
cehtehwell next comes that it notifies for each and every junk mail, my mail filter works fine sorting mails in about a dozen folders and i only want to be notifed when mail arrives on some few important folders00:33
cehtehmodest is really made for people getting less than 5 mails per day00:33
cehteh(and no spam)00:33
Venemofcrochik: what is appdownloader written in?00:34
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fcrochikVenemo: Qt....that is why FAP+appdownloader makes sense...00:35
fcrochikVenemo: at least I think it is... :)00:35
Venemofcrochik: haha!00:35
Venemofcrochik: it isn't that hard :)00:35
fcrochikVenemo: what?00:36
Venemofcrochik: did you know that Stiky Notes also calls GTK code?00:36
fcrochikVenemo: never had the pleasure to look under the hood :)00:36
Venemofcrochik: of yourse it is not possible to embed Qt and GTK widgets into each other00:36
Venemofcrochik: even if it is, I never bothered00:37
fcrochikVenemo: I have some "foreign" objects on my code too but I can't say I like them....00:37
Venemofcrochik: but in fact, Qt and GTK windows can be made transient to each other00:37
Venemofcrochik: in the end, both libs wrap Xlib, so no surprises there00:37
fcrochikVenemo: just the idea gives me the chills :)00:37
Venemofcrochik: for example, the color and font selector dialogs, and also the about box of Sticky Notes are from Hildon-Extras00:38
fcrochikVenemo: I have to say that I am too spoiled with c++ code.... just the very very GTK function names scares me :)00:38
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Venemofcrochik: yeah, I know what you mean :) :D00:38
fcrochikVenemo: that is why they work! I use the qt color dialog and it is just wrong!00:38
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Venemofcrochik: I wrote a Qt wrapper for Hildon-Extras for exactly this purpose00:39
lcukthere is more than one qt color dialog, be careful which you are mentioning (I think anyway..)00:39
fcrochikOn this note: are we (maemo community) be able to update the qt packages by ourselves?00:39
Venemofcrochik: you need to call a single method that returns a QColor... you can integrate it in less than 5 minutes00:40
Venemofcrochik: [fremantle]: sticky-notes 0.3.0 OK‏ -> thanks for your help again :)00:40
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lcukfcrochik, technically if the ssu gets going, down the line after pr1.3 then its possible00:40
fcrochiklcuk: I think I am using the default one... at any rate is a known bug that was fixed... the problem is that we don't get new Qt libraries until PR1.3.... if ever....that is why I asked if we as a community can just generate new qt packages from the repository and replace the "old" ones... I dont think we can...can we?00:41
lcukand afaik some of the qt packages may have specific meta packages to allow out of band updating anyway00:41
fcrochiklcuk: but qt packages are on the nokia repositories...arent they?00:42
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fcrochikVenemo: glad to hear!00:42
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Venemofcrochik: see this doc:
lcukfcrochik, look at how MohammadAG51 has been starting things like replacing hildon and modest builds, same principle applies00:42
fcrochikVenemo: cool!00:42
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lcukfcrochik, since you can replace the kernel, I am guessing it should be possible to replace anything else too ;)00:43
DocScrutinizererrr, I notice a statistically significant increase in mentioning of PR1.3 during last few days - what's the reason for this?00:43
fcrochiklcuk: yes... the truth is that we probably can just create parallel packages that replace the "official" ones... It is just how easy we make to the "end user".....00:44
Venemofcrochik: I recommend HeSimpleColorDialog. It can also have an advanced mode in which the user can select an arbitrary color00:44
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fcrochikVenemo: now that you have your library out there I may use it! The color dialog is a very small thing on mycontacts but I hate to know that it doesn't work00:45
DocScrutinizerI still think:00:45
lcukfcrochik, this issue is what requires resolving and why even though MohammadAG51 calls his repository the ssu one, its not yet - its merely bleeding edge.00:45
infobotit has been said that pr1.3 is a ban'able subject now..... will probably be out in 1/0 days00:45
Venemofcrochik: the color dialog is not in my library, it's in Q-Extras00:45
Venemofcrochik: the color dialog is not in my library, it's in Hildon-Extras**00:45
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Venemofcrochik: sorry, typoed00:45
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Venemofcrochik: you may of course use my library too, if you want to :)00:46
Venemofcrochik: I hope it works :)00:46
Venemofcrochik: about Hildon-Extras, that will 100% work, as there are lots of professional people behind it00:46
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asj_DocScrutinizer: I don't beleive that, they haven't, they haven't released the sdk and broken everything for 2 months yet00:48
nidOfcrochik: mycontacts has another vote now00:48
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fcrochiknidO: Thank you! Another...does it mean that it had one?00:48
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DocScrutinizerasj_: exactly, so where from comes that sudden popularity for the term PR1.3??00:49
fcrochikVenemo: is the hildon-extras just the 4 methods or is there more in it?00:49
nidOfcrochik: yeah, there was one from 3 days ago00:49
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Venemofcrochik: haha :)00:49
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asj_DocScrutinizer: there was a blog post yesterday or the day before saying pr1.3 is almost here00:49
Venemofcrochik: the 4 methods are the things that I wrote Qt wrappers for :)00:50
Jaizuke@MohammadAG : Hey you got a second?00:50
Venemofcrochik: it has a whole bunch of other Gtk/Hildon widgets too00:50
Venemofcrochik: see the wiki page for pics00:50
DocScrutinizerI can't even bother to find the fist post saying same for PR1.2, seems it was 3 months before the japanese version came down on us00:51
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fcrochikVenemo: cool! thank you for the tip!00:51
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asj_even made engadget, but this started it: afaik, mark guim who is the nokia blog...was just taking a few tidbits and making a store00:52
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DocScrutinizerand then there were at least 2 false assumptions today in this very channel about what PR1.3 will bring us and that's the reason we can't stand it any longer to wait for it... :-/ MEH00:53
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infobotpr1.3 is, like, a ban'able subject now..... will probably be out in 1/0 days00:54
asj_DocScrutinizer: she canna take any more captain ;)00:54
DocScrutinizerapt, no, pr1.3 is <reply> STILL a ban'able subject, more than ever00:54
JaizukeCan anybody please help me with the optimize N900 script?00:54
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever00:55
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DocScrutinizerfriggin blog, not even takes my comments - meh. Anyway what a BS, Stskeeps clearly explained in PR1.3 the kexec bug is fixed but meego switched to uBoot chainloading now - much cleaner and better solution - and completely unrelated to PR1.301:16
DocScrutinizer(well, maybe except for the fact they seem to bundle uBoot with a maemo kernel - presumably a PR1.3 version)01:17
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andaxHello, can someone recommend me a tiny WYSIWYG html editor which runs in a browser (embedded in html) but with no need for a webserver?01:17
DocScrutinizerI'd expect you can install this right away, no need to wait for any PR1.3 to come - or not01:18
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infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever01:18
jacekowskipr1.3 is released?01:20
DocScrutinizer/kickban jacekowski01:20
jacekowskiyou missed01:20
DocScrutinizeryoe ever heard of intentional near miss01:20
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keriofuck yeah 100 points in gta chinatown wars01:21
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fcrochikVenemo: I tried to run "apt-get upgrade" and for some reason sticky-notes was "kept back"...01:28
Venemofcrochik: what does 'apt-get install sticky-notes' say?01:29
DocScrutinizersticky-notes? eeeew, hope it's not a saxophone01:30
fcrochikthe following extra-packages will be installed: q-extras. the following new packages will be installed: q-extas. the following packages will be upgraded: sticky-notes01:31
fcrochikVenemo: it is like there are two q-extras.... ????01:31
Venemofcrochik: what?01:32
VenemoDocScrutinizer: it is a note-taking homescreen widget01:32
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* DocScrutinizer *loves* homescreen widgets - can slow down and even break the whole machine and nobody ever knows why01:33
fcrochikVenemo: I don't know why is listing the q-extras as "will be installed and also as new package to be installed"01:33
Venemofcrochik: try 'apt-get install q-extras'01:34
fcrochikinstalled 1.0.501:34
fcrochikand now upgraded sticky notes01:35
fcrochikVenemo: all good, feel free to creat your own sticky notes!  :)01:35
fcrochikHave to go but first:  new release of geeps with "horizontal accuracy"....01:36
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DocScrutinizerfcrofeel tempted :-D01:36
* DocScrutinizer waves, but fcrochik doesn't look back01:37
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* DocScrutinizer fires up HAM, sobbing01:39
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DocScrutinizerhey, maybe HAM could display xkcd of the week, while running apt-worker :-P01:41
Venemofcrochik: glad you succeeded01:41
DocScrutinizerVenemo: he's goooone01:41
mgedminno, please don't make HAM any slower01:43
mgedminhave you ever measured how long it takes for microb to open and start rendering a web page?01:43
VenemoDocScrutinizer: hm, my IRC client didn't show a leave message01:44
* DocScrutinizer chokes on mentioning of "phonon" for GeePS01:44
DocScrutinizermy tabexpand suggests there's no fcr.... enamore01:44
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DocScrutinizer(got "hide join/quit/nickchange")01:45
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DocScrutinizerHave to go but first:  new release of geeps with "horizontal accuracy"....  01:3601:50
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DocScrutinizer  DocScrutinizer01:50
DocScrutinizerfcrofeel tempted :-D01:50
andaxwhat is the equivalent of the Unix less command on maemo? (sh: less: not found)01:51
DocScrutinizerapt-get install less01:52
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DocScrutinizerthere's nothing like the real less01:52
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DocScrutinizerdunno if it's in extras, devel, or tools01:53
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infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils01:53
DocScrutinizerand to the rescue01:54
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hatake_kakashiI think less might be available in tools if not it'll be in one of the extras01:59
lcukDocScrutinizer, when I get back to England, can you just remind me to use the ambient light sensor to also dim the screen on the calculator - if theres no actual light around then it should dim02:00
hatake_kakashiand bash-setup doesn't do a good job of setting up user with bash when user opted yes for using bash instead02:00
DocScrutinizerlcuk: duh, why would calculator not dim on ALS?? o.O02:01
andaxDocScrutinizer, hatake_kakashi: thanks, got it now but only works as root atm. btw: I could not imagine why less is not part of the baselayout of maemo. So far, it was in the baselayout of any linux i came across.02:01
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andaxand i need it badly :-)02:02
lcukDocScrutinizer, I mean the solar cell part - to make it a bit more funnerer02:02
DocScrutinizerandax: see ~messybox02:02
hatake_kakashiandax, my personal thinking is that nokia guys didn't think maemo users are also proper linux users :) or maybe they thought people would be inclined to use the GUI parts instead02:02
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: OK02:02
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DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: either of those, yes02:03
lcukthanks \o02:03
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DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: maemo basically is trying even harder than ubuntu to mimic a windows machine02:03
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hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, its sad considering they expected NIT to not be as popular as their normal handsets to also assume that NIT owners won't be inclined to use power tools02:04
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hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, at least it not as bad as symbian mimicking windows :)02:04
DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: seems there's been a paradigma shift regarding that - now maem.. errr meego is hyped to become their top notch smartphone OS02:05
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DocScrutinizerso of course they go for abominations like extension hiding, VFAT filesystems, and no proper gnutools02:06
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, well when the time comes critics will be giving us the verdict of a quick rundown of what n9 will be like.. n900 was heralded as combining both internet tablet and phone functionality came out to be neither really good at either of them :)02:06
DocScrutinizercan't argue aginst that02:07
SpeedEvilNo proper gnutools is the right decision.02:08
andaxfrankly speaking, i think the GUI parts do not work like i want it to work and the kernel is not made with GUI so chances to survive without binary utilities are near zero02:08
nidOthat said, my n900 both makes and receives perfectly good phone calls, so it gets a 10/10 from me as a phone02:08
hatake_kakashiit saddens me having to point out the obvious :) alas we'll see what n9 will be like02:08
DocScrutinizerbut you got the chance to sanitize :-D02:08
nidOwhich is more than can be said for most apple/android trash where the phone is an afterthought02:08
nidOat least in the n900's case, its an afterthought that nokia *are good at*02:08
hatake_kakashiandax, which is why alot of new n900 owners thinking it was a cool device actually wore out their novelties within the first few months02:09
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DocScrutinizermere phone is excellent, but tbh my 6210 as of y2000 was smarter on the few phone *apps* it had, than a plain N900 is ootb02:10
hatake_kakashiwell in most cases n900 is very good for linux power users in general however: 1) it lacks portrait functionality for almost everything else apart from web browsing and phone calling (not to mention phone calling doesn't even log the amount of time you spent on it without a 3rd party tool if there is one) 2) the battery sizes for what reason is beyond me do they opted to give n900 a much much smaller sized plus the capacity on n900 compared to its prede02:11
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andaxbut also, some GUI apps amaze me, i dont want to miss them and i see there is a lot respectable work in them.02:12
nidOthe battery issue has always annoyed me, when my e90's bp-4l, of basically the same volume, is 1500mah02:12
hatake_kakashiand there's still lots of owners facing weak microUSB ports that can be easily ripped out02:12
DocScrutinizerOMG, really? 180mA less?02:13
DocScrutinizerI still get 3 days standby with active IRC *easily*02:13
hatake_kakashieveryone's usage of it as a phone, as a tablet or both has different views on how good or how bad it is02:14
jaskamines a table that occasionally rings02:14
hatake_kakashiits not just the 180mA less that annoys me.. I still cannot find a single source of where to buy BL-5J except to order them online02:14
nidODocScrutinizer: its 15% less battery life than a battery essentially the same volume and like a 4 year older design, yes02:14
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hatake_kakashihad it been the same size as its predecessor, there would have been no dramas for me whatsoever to buy spare batteries02:15
DocScrutinizerit's a dfferent cell chemistry though. Maybe LiPo isn't that siuted for the use and duty pattern02:15
jaskaatleast the keyboards buttons feel better than n810.. albeit they could be larger02:15
andaxhatake_kakashi: It would change a lot if the pointer pen could have two or three (mouse-)buttons and a bluetooth connection to the n900. Some common linux apps could be used.02:15
andaxi think it could be done. i think bluetooth devices can be so tiny.02:16
hatake_kakashiandax, heh there were discussions of multitap and about using capacitator screen rather than resistive02:16
DocScrutinizerandax: hey! :-D attach a USB mouse!02:16
hatake_kakashithat requires n900 USB OTG which is still WIP02:16
DocScrutinizeror even a BT mouse02:17
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andaxHow could i? Is there a USB adaptor available for such?02:17
DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: sure?02:17
hatake_kakashiI've heard there's a hand full of BT mouse supported02:17
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, no but I believe you would need OTG support and plus you have to either hack the mouse with the connector or buy a mouse that actually has microUSB connector as andax said02:18
DocScrutinizerfor those that've been living under a stone for the last 3 months02:18
andaxhatake_kakashi: mine is not (medion bt mouse)02:18
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hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, that doesn't mean its stable :) I've seen that thread.. requires custom kernel which would again put it out of the equation compared to its predecessors having OTG capability built-in02:19
hatake_kakashiandax, heh that sucks02:19
andaxindeed :(02:19
hatake_kakashi"The purpose of this package is NOT to bring hostmode to the masses, but it's meant to facilitate other devels to give a try to current state of what we basically achieved so far - and we are NOT INTERESTED in support requests, nor in "works for me" or "boohoohoooo It fails!!1!1!"" -- as per link quote02:20
DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: sorry then, we won't get any better than that any time soon - at least regarding need of a kernel that actually supports USB host02:20
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nidO*insert obligatory "hope datz in 1.3 then!" comment*02:21
DocScrutinizerit seems not even meego kernels most bleeding edge are going to adopt the nasty hacks needed to put N900 USB host to work02:21
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, I know, hence I don't go expect, there's plenty of other hacks I've yet to implement in my n900 but I mean it can put some owners off really.. OTG not as per standard (irregularity out of its NIT series? :))02:21
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hatake_kakashiheh epic pr1.302:22
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DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: I agree, back when I was about to order / wait for the N900, when I realized it has fubar USB I was temped to go SCREWIT for a moment - then made up my mind and though "*I* can fix that"02:23
hatake_kakashimaybe its about time nokia should make n900 the "I am not a wannabe" NIT owner02:23
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, best way to look at things, there's no more flexible platform for mobile OS to work with compared to maemo I'd dare say02:24
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DocScrutinizerhatake_kakashi: well, it was months and moths of pain for my EE heart, until finally the schematics 'leaked'02:25
hatake_kakashiDocScrutinizer, EE? Estonian?02:25
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DocScrutinizerbut now I'm more happy with N900 than with any prior device I owned02:26
hatake_kakashior Electronics Engineer or something? lol02:26
DocScrutinizer~ DocScrutinizer02:26
infobotrumour has it, docscrutinizer is jOERG, a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko02:26
DocScrutinizerElectronics Engineer02:26
hatake_kakashiI'm fairly happy overall with my n900 despite of all its pitfalls that I constantly pick on about. A lot better than my n95-1 (minus a few things) and it also fulfilled my desires to own my very own linux powered phone02:28
hatake_kakashilet just say that its not just a phone, its more like a portable device which has phone capability02:28
nidOI do really like the n900, but, frankly, it's not quite what i'd hoped.02:29
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hatake_kakashiit isn't for many I bet, but if you can work with it, it will still make you quite happy as a base for many other things02:29
nidOI wanted a mobile do-everything device that was an upgrade to my e90. does not deliver.02:29
hatake_kakashiI was hoping to fully kick my n95-1 out but that didn't happen as well02:30
DocScrutinizerI wanted a N810 with UMTS, I got much more02:30
DocScrutinizermodulo the smaller screen and kbd02:31
hatake_kakashin900 is my first NIT device02:31
Mouseykakashi proctology!02:31
nidOditto, I could never really see the practical upshot of older ones over the e-series or communicators of the time02:31
hatake_kakashiI was also quite annoyed at nokia's plan to make meego rather than dedicating themselves to work with maemo platform02:32
jaskaheh, i remember booting 9000i into dos02:32
jaskaand ircing from a car with one02:32
hatake_kakashiMousey, lolwut?02:32
hatake_kakashioh yeh the nokia communicator was one of my childhood dreams of owning one, never got it but n900 is far better than communicator I bet :D02:33
nidOhatake_kakashi: for pure productivity, really not02:33
hatake_kakashiMousey, lol oh that, anime reference02:34
hatake_kakashin900 = NIT chibi :p02:35
hatake_kakashinidO, huh?02:35
DocScrutinizerGENERAL CHANNEL POLICY ANNOUNCEMET: it's deprecated to post URLs that neithe contain nor come with a hint about their content. BEWARE! might cause kick or ban02:35
nidOhatake_kakashi: n900 being better than communicators - not so for actually getting things done, by a long way02:36
hatake_kakashinidO, well not so but then again the base hardware is much better, its just the UI that's the let down.. at least I guess it'll be up to the maemo community to focus on making alternatives and maybe then shall n900 mimic a little like communicator series02:37
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nidOwell, the hardware's better *in some ways*. the keyboard is a massive step down over any communicator or eseries02:38
hatake_kakashiMousey, ever seen to aru kagaku no railgun? n900 reminds me of `the last order' :D the immature and pre-released NIT series :D02:39
nidOI do really like my n900 but I was very close to returning it after finding out just how terribad the keyboard was, and having to pick up my lower jaw from the floor after seeing the train wreck that is maemo's modest implementation02:40
hatake_kakashiand don't forget about the screen not being able to tilt on an angle like n9702:40
nidOwell, there the communicators have the n97 and n900 thoroughly licked as well, being as you can have them at any angle02:41
hatake_kakashialas all communicators and e-series were powered none other than symbian02:41
nidOsymbian's fine02:41
hatake_kakashinot for me02:41
nidOits a very good, solid, efficient os with a bit of a dated ui sitting on it.02:41
DocScrutinizersybian's fine?02:41
andaxdoes someone not find the maemo filesystem "hierarchy" is confusing? o_O02:41
Mouseyhatake_kakashi: nah, not my style. =/02:41
nidOfor getting things done, I couldnt give a toss that the icons look a bit old02:42
lcukDocScrutinizer, I have seenirc bots that will lookup the title automagically for links (like youtube etc)02:42
hatake_kakashiandax, not really, especially when you have worked with a fair few various linux distros :)02:42
DocScrutinizermeh, titles are blue smoke and sand in your eyes02:42
hatake_kakashiMousey, lol fair enough02:42
andaxhatake_kakashi: cant find the users home directory via bt file transfer02:43
andaxhatake_kakashi: seems having a different order02:43
hatake_kakashiI'm not worried about icons or its provided features I'm moreso concerned of its overall functionality in that it doesn't try and inhibit users' desires.. which is exactly what my n95-1 ultimately shitted me the most02:44
DocScrutinizerlcuk: either it's clear from context what about an URL is, or you might feel oblighed to give enough info to save 449 users from clicking on that URL to find out02:44
hatake_kakashiandax, its either /home/user or /home/user/MyDocs.. under usual hfm and stuff like that I think it'll just show up as your device name which links to /home/user/MyDocs once you open that up02:45
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: and the promise to kick/ban after some warnings wasn't kidding02:45
DocScrutinizerlcuk: in other chans you earn a kickban on posting *any* URL02:46
DocScrutinizerwhich of course is insane02:46
lcukDocScrutinizer, but that policy isnt great, its not going to be important enough for people to remember or need to know?  just common sense, if you get infuriated enough to raise a kickban, why not just use the energy and ask the user what the link was?02:46
hatake_kakashisupport channels you don't unless you repeat or you constantly post offtopic junk02:46
andaxhatake_kakashi: actually, via bluetooth it is different: ..\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\foobar02:47
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'm an evil teacher trying to educate nice folks - and I'm grumpy as you all know and love me for that02:47
hatake_kakashiandax, which program are you using? I'm using file manager and it allows me to send files through bluetooth02:48
lcuknot really, save the kicks for offensive content - btw kerio deserves a massive ban ;)02:48
DocScrutinizerlcuk: and a asking for "what's that URL" isn't really different from "you're supposed to tell what that URL is"02:48
DocScrutinizerkerio??? YEEEES02:49
lcuksure, but one is positive reenforcement :P02:49
andaxhatake_kakashi:  i connect in the opposite direction, i work on lapttop with files on n900, via bluetooth connection but i cannot find root not home directories02:49
andaxnot -> nor02:49
lcukyou could of course just tell them what the link was "hey, I noticed you forgot the title, for everyone else its ..." :P02:49
hatake_kakashiandax, ahh02:49
DocScrutinizerlcuk: I'm advancing offensive, then usually calm down a lot02:49
hatake_kakashiandax, for that I just either ssh in via wireless or pc suite mode and enabling USB networking02:50
lcuki have finally managed to pack suitcase, buying a helicopter with a box that takes up 1/3 of suitcase space causes logistical issues :P02:50
sp3000lcuk: you need a bigger helicopter to put the suitcase in02:51
sp3000problem solved!02:51
lcuk:D sp3000 awesome02:51
hatake_kakashiand so you carry the helicopter by hand? lol02:51
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hatake_kakashierr nm02:51
lcuksp3000, verkkokauppa has so many nice toys tho :P I couldnt carry them all back with me :D02:52
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lcukhatake_kakashi, no my one piece of handluggage is this laptop02:52
lcukerr laptop bag02:53
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hatake_kakashiheh that's quite small02:53
DocScrutinizerlcuk: you need to unpack it and let it fly next to your window ;-D02:54
hatake_kakashibut no, I thought what sp3000 meant was to buy a big helicopter so big that it will never fit in yer suitcase rather than thinking the literal meaning is to buy a real and proper helicopter so that you could for example sit in02:54
DocScrutinizerso you only take the remote control with you02:54
hatake_kakashiand when it runs out of nitro/battery you can watch it disappear from yer view lol02:55
DocScrutinizerlcuk: or you place the heli into siutcase and wear all the clothes that don't fit in now02:55
lcukDocScrutinizer, I have already decided on that approach02:55
lcukI am going to be so warm in the airport :D02:56
hatake_kakashiheh igloo02:56
sp3000or, just say the hlicopter is a funny hat02:56
hatake_kakashicarry it in yer bare hands and when they ask what is it you say its `my baby' :D02:56
lcuk:D ahah02:56
* DocScrutinizer is waiting for Myrtti making anothe mushroom notice to calendar02:57
lcukthats in my pocket already02:57
* lcuk drops so much tech onto the security conveyor I could fly to pluto and back02:57
hatake_kakashias long as you don't give them second looks that you're an electronics smuggler02:58
DocScrutinizerlol for pluto02:58
lcukwell the people checking the main bags will see a metal box o_O02:58
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hatake_kakashiit'll come up as silver lol02:59
hatake_kakashithey'll probably tell you to open it and show them what is it02:59
* lcuk fully expects to find a "weopened your luggage ..." note again02:59
lcukno, this is the checked luggage, not in my presence02:59
andaxhatake_kakashi: the /home/user/MyDocs folder is called Bluetooth-Umgebung\Gesamte Bluetooth\ Neighborhood\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\Data02:59
andaxhatake_kakashi: aww /home/user/MyDocs folder is called Bluetooth-Umgebung\Gesamte Bluetooth Neighborhood\Nokia N900\File Transfer server\Data03:00
hatake_kakashiandax, whoa! that's really long path, hmm why not use binding mount?03:00
DocScrutinizerlcuk: helicoper? Yeah probably... "WTF!!! IS! THAT?!?"03:00
lcukanyway, its rly late03:00
andaxhatake_kakashi: because maemo uses a somewhat unknown filesystem03:01
DocScrutinizerlcuk: right, time for lunch03:01
hatake_kakashiandax, not really, its mostly ext3 and fat3203:01
andaxhatake_kakashi: and my brain is already full03:01
andaxhatake_kakashi: with the difference that its not compatible with each of them03:02
DocScrutinizerandax: seems you got something wrong03:02
andaxDocScrutinizer: my linux box did not recognize that fs, my windows box did not recognize that fs03:03
DocScrutinizer/home/user/MyDocs is called "Documente" in LANG=de_DE03:03
andaxthats why i connect via bluetooth03:04
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DocScrutinizerandax: too bad, all my linux boxes have no problems whatsoever03:04
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hatake_kakashiandax, too much bluetoothing for you! btw how fast can you transfer over bluetooth anyway? when I transfer over usb via sshfs I can attain roughly 2-3MB/s03:05
andaxDocScrutinizer: it is not "Dokumente" here, but i use german03:05
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DocScrutinizeron N900 filemanager it's "Documente" iirc03:06
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jpinx-eeepcandax: just use tab completion03:06
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DocScrutinizererr, it's N900, MyDocs/.documents is "Documente"03:07
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andaxDocScrutinizer1GB takes estimated time of 84 minutes, and i wasnt able to move files larger than approx. 1.2GB03:07
DocScrutinizerandax: via USB mass storage?03:08
jpinx-eeepcandax: wtf? use usb networking03:08
andaxDocScrutinizervia bluetooth03:08
DocScrutinizeraah, yeah03:08
hatake_kakashiusb networking isn't faster than usb mass storage03:08
DocScrutinizernope, for sure not03:08
hatake_kakashibut usb networking can provide you with shell and few other things :D03:09
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: fwiw I find usb network with sshfs is faster than mass storage03:09
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DocScrutinizernope, I got around 12MB/s via mass storage, *write* to eMMC, for a 13GB03:09
jpinx-eeepcbut I use rsync so  it doesn't have to transfer *everything*03:10
hatake_kakashiI couldn't measure transfer speeds via mass storage in a stable fashion, though sshfs I know is quite slow for transferring files because it heavily uses CPU03:11
DocScrutinizerbut that's not a fair competition03:11
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jpinx-eeepcheh -- who says it has to be fair ?  ;)03:11
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: I can rsync to a mass storage mounted device as well :-P03:12
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jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: really?  I never tried that, but I'm always in networking mode so...03:13
hatake_kakashirsync doesn't have to be over a network with IP addresses, it can be between two mounted devices or even directories03:14
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chxso i am getting my N900 on Monday (or Sunday, pending some tricks). Is there a "top list of awesome apps to install imedaitely"03:14
hatake_kakashidefine: awesome03:14
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jpinx-eeepcchx: charge the battery before you start dicking about03:15
jpinx-eeepcchx: and learn what's in there before you start adding crapware03:16
babsher_is there a difference between the using dbus or bluez to connect to a bluetooth device03:18
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DocScrutinizerchx: not-my-nokia (immediately!!), load applet, simple brightness applet03:19
chxbahaha why notmynokia?03:20
chxwhats wrong with registering to mynokia03:20
jpinx-eeepcwtf is not-my-nokia ?03:20
jpinx-eeepcand xchat is crap03:20
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: it's anticherry03:20
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hatake_kakashimakes n900 not subscribe itself to my nokia03:20
jpinx-eeepcwhy is that a good thing?03:20
hatake_kakashinot necessarily03:20
DocScrutinizer# kill that cherry PITA, before it sends SMS03:21
DocScrutinizer# see
hatake_kakashibut disabling my nokia may save you sms fees03:21
DocScrutinizerand protect your privacy03:21
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babsher_any one know about the bluetooth programming?03:21
jpinx-eeepcyour device is on the internet - privacy gone n03:22
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: maybe yours03:22
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DocScrutinizerchx: flashlight03:23
johndoi've installed easy debian on my n900 and upgraded it to current debian versions03:23
chxthere is a problem of ordering03:23
chxi mean03:23
DocScrutinizernot flashlight-extra though (brings machine to a grinding halt)03:23
chxi presume by now the phone will have pr1.2 on it03:23
hatake_kakashibabsher_, not I but taking an educated guess at yer problem, I'd say if you use dbus you make other built-in applications that depends on dbus aware03:23
chxand when i switch on it registers.03:23
johndoall worked fine until recently, now my menu bar on the lx desktop flashes03:23
DocScrutinizerchx: I wouldn't rely on that03:24
johndoi've tried to remove some lxde config files in home dir, but no success03:24
DocScrutinizerchx: and it won't register until you insert a SIM03:24
johndoany ideas or hints?03:24
chxthat wont happen for days03:24
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: so basically it registers on boot, before you have time to stop it03:25
chxout of curiosity, is it possible to send-receive SMS without a voice plan?03:25
DocScrutinizeryes, on PR1.2 it does - *if* there's a SIM03:25
jpinx-eeepcchx: depends on your provider03:25
chxjpinx-eeepc: what should i ask from my provider :)03:26
DocScrutinizerseems here we got no SIM that don't come with voice plan03:26
hatake_kakashisame here03:26
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: so - having reflashed, inserted a working sim, rebooted, upgraded - it's done with nokia and I can't stop it03:27
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DocScrutinizerbut then here we don't pay for inbound minutes03:27
chxi alreayd have this SIM in an Option 442 datacard.03:27
jpinx-eeepcchx: same as you asked here03:27
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: seems yes03:27
hatake_kakashisome providers may charge you to send and receive SMS, others may bundle it as a cost for yer voice plan or have a set amount of sms you can send on yer plan03:28
chxi see.03:28
SpeedEvilMoving a hundred meg over usb-ethernet from outside to phone goes at 7M/s03:28
chxso no tricks of sending SMSes over data only?03:28
chxlike we can do with voice?03:28
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: so installing not-my-nokia will make no difference to me now03:28
hatake_kakashireceiving is usually free unless its a premium number.. here in .au we have special numbers that are marked for premium sms services03:29
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: the suggestion was't addressed to you anyway03:29
DocScrutinizerchx: sure there are webpages to send 'free' SMS03:30
* jpinx-eeepc fails to see how installing not-my-nokia will work for anyone once the phone is booted...03:30
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DocScrutinizerand usually you also may send SMS via your SIP provider03:30
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: please read the wiki URL I posted above03:30
jpinx-eeepci did03:31
jpinx-eeepcit appears to be effective only if you install it before inserting a sim03:31
DocScrutinizercherry came with PR1.2 - you're supposed to install not-my-nokia *prior* to SSU upgrade to PR1.203:31
SpeedEvilOr you pull the SIM, then install the package that I've forgotten the name of.03:32
DocScrutinizerand you also seem to have an option to delete the pending sim even when you booted to a PR1.2 without SIM03:32
jpinx-eeepcSpeedEvil: if the upgradde is done and the sim is in - you're toast03:33
johndoso you could have prevented the n900 to send phone number to nokia for all times?03:33
jpinx-eeepcand there is no retro-opt-out?03:34
DocScrutinizerthere is03:34
johndonice to know it after starting the device ;)03:34
DocScrutinizeryou'll send another SMS for that X-P03:34
jpinx-eeepcthe sms is not the issue03:34
jpinx-eeepc50 cents or whatever03:34
DocScrutinizerno, it's the privacy violation03:35
johndothere's no way back other than to get a new phone number03:35
johndothey dont delete data03:35
DocScrutinizernobody really does03:35
johndothey = nokia03:35
johndobig brother as all the others too03:35
DocScrutinizerthey = *03:35
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: I change sim when I travel - always using a local provider - so nokia will have a bunch of numbers for me :)03:36
DocScrutinizererr, nope03:36
johndobut do they really get personal data from the telephone providers?03:36
DocScrutinizercherry shit is done once, not per sim03:36
johndoyou sure?03:37
DocScrutinizerjohndo: they get SMS from *you*03:37
johndoi changed the sim as the question abpout registration came after upgrade to 1.203:37
DocScrutinizerjohndo: yes I'm sure03:37
johndoand it came again as i switched back to my contract sim ;)03:38
johndoso i guess nokia now has both numbers03:38
DocScrutinizerduring boot some script checks for ~user/.cherry file, if none exists it sends the SMS and creates that file03:38
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jpinx-eeepcthey must have the numbers or they can not send you "helpful messages"03:38
DocScrutinizerso until you reflash or erase that file, there'll be no other SMS03:39
johndo.cherry_state ?03:39
DocScrutinizersth like that03:39
DocScrutinizercheck there:
jpinx-eeepcDocScrutinizer: so if I delete the file and have the not-my-nokia installed and reboot - all is undone?03:39
johndogood to know .. to not erase that file on a cleanup :)03:40
DocScrutinizerjpinx-eeepc: nfc03:40
jpinx-eeepcthis is worse than MS :(03:40
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jpinx-eeepchow often do nokia send sms's? I see none in the convrsations03:41
johndothe bad thing is that there is no opt-out or "no" button when the registration window pops up03:41
johndonokia had left a lot of trust in my eyes at this moment, did not think they are that bad03:42
jpinx-eeepceven MS has that03:42
johndoworse than MS is no level, MS has no skill whenit comes rto inet and data mining03:42
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johndonokia is at the level of apple and google with that behaviuour03:43
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johndosomething completely different, what's the difference in behaviour between the GUI packet manager and apt-get?03:45
johndomy GUI packetmanager is happy and don't want to upgrade anything03:45
jpinx-eeepcjohndo: huge03:45
johndobut when i start apt-get upgrade it wants to upgrade 3 packages03:45
jpinx-eeepcjohndo: I am told that using apt-get for the wrong things will break it03:45
johndowell, i would trust apt more than any GUI packet manager :)03:46
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jpinx-eeepcjohndo: don't03:47
johndoand i see the packages apt wants to upgrade in the fremantle-1.2 repository03:47
jpinx-eeepcjohndo: you speak like a debian user ;)03:47
johndoso my question is why does the gui packet manager don't upgrade them?03:48
johndoI am one :P03:48
jpinx-eeepcsame here, and I have been warned  to use HAM whenever possible, not ap-get03:48
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johndohmm, not very convincing :(03:49
DocScrutinizerjohndo: apt-get upgrade is strongly deprecated and usually breaks your system03:49
johndothen the repositories are managed badly, shouldn't happen with good repositories03:50
DocScrutinizerthe repositories have some special hacks that don't take effect with pure apt03:51
chxOK so this seems to be a solution to my problem.03:51
johndoso anybody knows what mechanisms prevent the GUI packet manager from installing packages which apt does not know of?03:51
DocScrutinizermaybe categories or whats it called03:52
DocScrutinizeraiu HAM only shows pkgs in group/category user/*03:52
johndobut then you can't even trust the fremantle extras repository?03:53
johndotrust in "it's mostly safe to install packages from there?03:54
DocScrutinizeryes, those packages are supposed to be safe03:54
* jpinx-eeepc installs notmynokia using HAM03:54
DocScrutinizerjohndo: mostly03:58
johndothe thing i hate with HAM is that i can't see what it is doing04:00
johndowhere it gets packages from, ...04:00
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johndojpinx-eeepc: notmynokia is extras-devel and you install that with HAM?04:03
johndohow can you know what dependencies it installs from devel behind your back?04:04
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jpinx-eeepcjohndo: relax and enjoy the ride ;)04:10
jpinx-eeepcyou can query with dpkg after04:10
johndohehe, i like the word "after" in that sentence :D04:10
jpinx-eeepcif you don't like something you can work out how to purge it ;)04:11
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johndoyes, and how to downgrade all packages which have been upgraded to a version from devel because of dependencies ;)04:12
johndoi guess my trust in apt to upgrade files isn't worse than that :)04:13
jpinx-eeepcjohndo: you have reason - at least aptitude tells you - HAM says nothing04:13
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johndogah, and nobody knows how to fix my blinking menu bar in lxde04:14
johndodo i really have to start with a fresh image :(04:14
jpinx-eeepcI have three images that I use )04:15
jpinx-eeepcdiffering states of brokenness while I fiddle04:15
johndoi dont care to copy the original image over, but when trhis happens all 3 days or so it's not worth to invest time in the debian image to customize it04:15
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ShadowJKthe "install" (or whatever) tab says what it installs05:09
DocScrutinizererr, HAM says nothing? and what's with the rightmost of those tabs under "Details"?05:11
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DocScrutinizerumm, ShadowJK been faster just another time :-D05:11
ShadowJKI forget, is the swap and back key on GPIO on N810 or on the keyboard matrix?05:17
ShadowJKthe swap key stopped responding :/05:17
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ShadowJKah, mce restart fixed it05:18
ShadowJKthe ground is covered in lots of snow05:21
* ShadowJK gets to drive to work with summer tyres :D05:22
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quanttromShadowJK: wohoo :)05:38
johndoShadowJK, DocScrutinizer: it says what it installs, but not where from ;)05:40
DocScrutinizer51yes, that's correct05:41
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ebzzryIs there an (cross)assembler for Fremantle?05:53
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ham5that irc protocal addon what if I need to send some commands to the server?07:04
jpinx-eeepcyou use /command07:15
ham5and is there some sort of preform commands after connect?07:16
ham5/command privmsg ham5 hi07:18
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jpinx-eeepcham5: /help07:31
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petabit  come join us at #hackers or ##itt-tech . if you dare that is.....07:50
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Stskeepsso dark outside08:20
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slonopotamusoh my, fourth Knuth tome is coming out soon08:28
slonopotamus4A, to be exact :)08:29
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ebzzryHi! What is the ideal way of making the physical keyboard RETURN key send Return and not KP_Enter? Will doing so break anything?08:55
Stskeepsprobably will break things ;)08:55
ebzzryThat's a big "probably" there. :)08:55
Stskeeps <- wtf08:55
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chx<trolling> wait, Palm has already got close to bankruptcy they do not need to learn that </trolling>08:57
Stskeepspalm's HP now08:57
chxi know08:57
chxi was just gently pointing out that the guy is not exactly known for skyrocketing a product to stardom and Palm is erm well was not shining lately either08:58
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chxneedless to say, i was fidgeting between Android and Maemo for a year and today made finally the decision so while dissing Nokia for being a bunch of idiots, the N900 is *still* the best phone on the market for me09:00
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Stskeepsthen again, where else would you find someone who gets Linux and isn't an android guy?09:01
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chxon this level?09:02
chxthat's fair09:02
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RobbieThe1stHello all09:03
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RobbieThe1stStskeeps, do you happen to be around?09:07
Stskeepsif you count it being around having this low caffeine level09:07
hatake_kakashiin other words cranky? ;)09:07
RobbieThe1stEh, close enough.09:07
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RobbieThe1stAnyway, I'm still trying to work out how to make a proper flashable ubifs image. I did as you suggested and used tar with the --numeric-owner -pcf options. I get a (seemingly) valid archive. When I flash it, it won't even -try- to boot(nokia logo for a bit, then it shuts off).09:09
mecewth? What is it with mornings and tmo/fmc?09:10
RobbieThe1stNote that I excluded the contents of /dev/ in my archive - that shouldn't be a problem, should it?09:10
Stskeepsmece: probably got flooded after
StskeepsRobbieThe1st: quite big problem09:10
meceIt's not just you! looks down from here. / It's not just you! looks down from here.09:10
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RobbieThe1stIt's not dynamically generated?09:11
* mece gasps09:11
StskeepsRobbieThe1st: at bootup you always need basic /dev stuff before udev starts up09:11
RobbieThe1stFair enough09:12
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RobbieThe1stAlso, another question. I ran into a comment saying that a full wipe to PR1.2 doesn't reset any eraseblock info. If that ends up being corrupt or bad, how do you clear that(and potentially re-test all sections of the flash)?09:17
Stskeepsnanderase from a initrd09:18
RobbieThe1stHm... That would be safe to do when running off a ramdisk, right?09:19
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RobbieThe1stAlright, so I flashed to PR1.2, bound /dev/ elsewhere, then tar'd up the remaining files. I then copied it to my desktop, and added the files to my image. There's a good ~150 files, all "character device" or "block device", and all of size 0B. I made my image, flashed it... Again, nothing09:49
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RobbieThe1stLets see, in terms of other info, /boot, /tmp, /sys, /proc, /srv, /initrd, /floppy and /cdrom are all empty folders in my image. Should any of them have content?09:50
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meceRobbieThe1st, great thread that portrait mode thread. Made me lol09:55
tobis87Stskeeps: Have you got my message from tuesday?: But I've got an older version of the driver, because the new  is based on ahash, which cannot be backported. So I cannot say if the  omap-sham will work, because the new one also uses dma and dma caused  these problems.09:55
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tobis87Stskeeps: Yes the driver in 2.6.35 uses dma. If it does work, you want to add these two patches:
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tobis87Stskeeps: Btw, what stands in the way to be able to use the 2.6.35 kernel on the n900 with maemo? Which drivers are still missing?10:00
Stskeepsmaemo requires a lot of interfaces now gone10:00
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tobis87Do you mean for example the program which configures the wifi on every boot? Would this not be a nice gift, if pr 1.3 would give you the ability to update your kernel to a newer version, I mean cleanup the interface stuff?10:05
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MohammadAG<Stskeeps> maemo requires a lot of interfaces now gone10:08
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MohammadAGbme and mce would be the first to die right?10:08
MohammadAGbme can be upgraded, or the meego version can be pulled10:08
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MohammadAGmce - I don't give a shit10:09
* MohammadAG downloads latest kernel source10:09
RobbieThe1stStskeeps: Alright, so I flashed to PR1.2, bound /dev/ elsewhere, then tar'd up the remaining files. I then copied it to my desktop, and added the files to my image. There's a good ~150 files, all "character device" or "block device", and all of size 0B. I made my image, flashed it... Again, nothing10:09
RobbieThe1stLets see, in terms of other info, /boot, /tmp, /sys, /proc, /srv, /initrd, /floppy and /cdrom are all empty folders in my image. Should any of them have content?10:10
StskeepsRobbieThe1st: hmm10:10
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StskeepsRobbieThe1st: out of ideas right now - can i help you during the weekend? we have last minute additions to meego so10:10
RobbieThe1stLet me know if you have any ideas; feel free to PM me on the forums or send me an email if I'm not here,10:11
MohammadAG/boot holds kernel images for on device reflashes10:11
MohammadAG/sys can't be empty when the device is up and running, same goes for /proc10:11
MohammadAG/cdrom and /floppy are pretty obvious :p10:12
MohammadAGthe N900 has no /initrd10:12
MohammadAGno idea about /srv10:12
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RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: In case you missed the earlier discussion, I'm trying to make a flashable N900 rootfs image. I have a tar'd archive of all the files, this instruction for making the image: Everything works fine, but it won't start to boot10:13
RobbieThe1stNo blinking dots, it doesn't get past the Nokia logo.10:14
MohammadAGflash a framebuffer kernel and see what stops it10:14
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RobbieThe1stOk, here's the error: UBIFS error (pid 1): ubifs_check_mode: bad CRC: calculated .... read ... then "bad node at LEB 0:0", "expected node type 6"10:21
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Stskeepsmaybe you're hitting your own badblocks problem now..10:22
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MohammadAGcrc errors should be ignored afaik10:22
MohammadAGCONFIG_CMDLINE="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6"10:22
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MohammadAGStskeeps, any ideas what this means lib/crc-ccitt.c:0: warning: switch -mcpu=cortex-a8 conflicts with -march= switch, assuming CPU feature set10:23
RobbieThe1stUm, what should I do with that?10:23
StskeepsMohammadAG: normal10:24
MohammadAGthat's the default kernel cmdline RobbieThe1st10:24
MohammadAGStskeeps, I see10:24
RobbieThe1stWell, erm, PR1.2 flashing does work, so I assume that this should be able to be made to work the same way10:24
MohammadAGStskeeps, I'm assuming the N900 2.6.25 MeeGo kernel source is on gitorious somewhere?10:24
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RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: After those errors, I get an error about not having the root= option set, availaible partitons: blank. Then kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount rootfs on unknown-block(0,0)10:26
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MohammadAGhrw, thanks10:27
MohammadAGRobbieThe1st, try flasher-3.5 --boot="init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 snd-soc-rx51.hp_lim=42 snd-soc-tlv320aic3x.hp_dac_lim=6"10:28
* RST38h started getting spam about Indian marriage services10:28
MohammadAGthough I don't see why you'd need to do that10:28
RST38hI guess they finally figured out I do not need Russian mailorder brides10:28
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AppiahI'm not opening that!10:29
crashanddieAppiah, actually, they're all SFW10:30
RST38hdepends on your w10:31
RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: Same error. It seems like there's an error in the image? nand? and it's not able to mount.10:31
TermanaN900crashanddie, that may or may not be true, but i doubt "whorepresents" will get through most work filters :p10:32
RobbieThe1st <- has been used successfully by someone else, right?10:32
crashanddieTermanaN900, I know :P10:32
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tobis87Stskeeps: Are there any news regarding hw. accel. support in openssl? Sha1 and Md5 acceleration might be handy if dnssec will have to be supported.10:36
Stskeepsno, not following that10:36
MohammadAGhmm shit10:36
MohammadAGStskeeps, the kernel partition is only 2MBs right?10:36
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hrwMohammadAG: right10:37
hrwMohammadAG: but 2MB is a lot10:37
MohammadAGnot for a 3MB image10:38
MohammadAGneed to check .config for extra crap10:38
Stskeepsthen don't bloat it10:38
Stskeepsand strip it10:38
hrwMohammadAG: and use lzma for compression10:38
hatake_kakashilol modules ftw ;)10:38
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crashanddie"This little piggy went to market -- to pay off a Russian woman's overdue debt to a bank.10:39
crashanddieCourt officers in far eastern Russia have seized a piglet from a woman who owes a bank 13,000 roubles ($432) and put it up for sale to recuperate some of the money, the regional branch of the Federal Bailiffs Service said on Thursday."10:39
MohammadAGarch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzma.S:4: Error: file not found: arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzma10:39
meceMohammadAG, perhaps you forgot to compress the piggy?10:40
hrwStskeeps: meego still uses "format/unpack/boot" way of upgrades?10:40
RobbieThe1stStskeeps: Sorry for bugging you, but the two lines you have here: have been tested, correct?10:40
StskeepsRobbieThe1st: yes, we used them for the first meego images10:41
Stskeepshrw: you can do zypper up too but we're not testng it10:41
hrwStskeeps: I will wait for something ready for users rather10:41
tobis87I don't understand that more people are interested in ipv6 than in dnssec. I have upgraded to the newested bind9 yesterday and it shows up that is already signed, but is not. :-D10:41
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* RST38h isn't interested in either, so he cannot relate10:43
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crashanddieAri Jaaksi joining Palm :)10:44
Corsacitym HP10:45
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MohammadAGhow was the first compiler compiled? :P10:45
johnxRST38h, so what kind of recent tech developments *do* interest you?10:46
johnx(honestly curious, not sarcastic)10:46
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CorsacMohammadAG: it wasn't compiled, someone preyed enough and it appeared, already compiled10:46
tobis87MohammadAG: You would have to ask Grace Hopper, how she did it
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RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: It was written in assembly, most likely10:47
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johnxRobbieThe1st, what about the first assembler? :P10:47
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RobbieThe1stWell, as assembly is simply human readable machine language, you could make the claim that punched cards were assembly10:48
crashanddiejohnx, with hardware logic?10:48
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crashanddie"The first time you do something, it's science. The second time you do something, it's engineering. The third time you do something, it's being a technician."10:50
johnxI like the idea that we're getting closer and closer to proper desktop 3D printers. then we can have software that builds some software to complete the circle10:50
johnxcrashanddie, heh. pretty sure I'm past technician and all the way down to mechanic :)10:51
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RST38hjohnx: gradual switch to remote controlled air force10:52
RobbieThe1stYea, wouldn't it be great to go "Hm... I need a new SD card." *torrent plans*, print.10:52
johnxRST38h, hacking opportunity of a lifetime? you probably only get one shot though ...10:53
RST38hjohnx: movement from paper books to ebooks10:53
RobbieThe1stSure, in reality that'd be pretty hard, but at some point it ought to be possible10:53
johnxRST38h, got any newspapers that you're happy to see be the first to go?10:54
MohammadAGplastic ink would cost more than the SD card by then10:54
RST38hjohnx: I have not read a paper newspaper copy for months now10:54
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johnxit's probably been a year or so since I've really sat down and read one10:55
RobbieThe1stBy then, the nanobots or living cells that actually make it could probably tear down other objects for raw materials10:55
johnxbut still, the ebook situation is just as bad as streaming films: a million formats, specific formats working only on specific OSes or hardware10:55
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MohammadAGsigh, 224090010:56
RST38hjohnx: in general, only technological changes that matter are those that may/will affect your day to day life10:56
RobbieThe1stSo, you put your iphone 300 on one side, take the plans for your Nokia N9,000,000 and put it in, press "make"...10:56
johnxRST38h, IPv6 will affect my day-to-day work very much :)10:56
RST38hjohnx: ipv6 has been around for years and its effect on your life is nul10:56
RobbieThe1stjohnx: That's what good old HTML's for.10:56
JaffaMorning, all10:56
RST38hjohnx: Pretty sure it will not10:56
RST38hYou wil have to change a few things you normally do at work but nothing big10:56
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johnxRST38h, you could have reasonably made that argument about virtualization 10 years ago10:57
RST38hjohnx: virtualization has not affected me over these years10:57
johnxRST38h, in case you forgot: johnx == sysadmin10:57
MohammadAGBootloader error log follows:10:57
MohammadAG  ERROR: Image kernel won't fit in partition10:57
RST38hjohnx: it remains a glorified way to run multiple ISS copies on the same machine :)10:57
RST38hjohnx: yes, I am aware :)10:57
Corsacwell, running multiple copies of ISS on the same machine would be nice too :)10:58
johnxMohammadAG, is the bootloader telling you that about the kernel that's already in the partition? :P10:58
RST38hjohnx: Virtualization does not cause you to lose your paycheck or get paid more though, so it is still not crucial enough10:58
MohammadAGgrr, framebuffer not showing up10:59
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johnxRST38h, still I have more than a passing interest. it affects me about the same as ebooks :P10:59
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lcukjohnx, if plaintext is good enough for emails, its good enough for stories!11:00
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johnxlcuk, don't have to convince me :P I've been reading txt ebooks starting on a Handspring Visor Prism starting in 2001/2002 or so11:01
RobbieThe1stI've only done that on my old Iriver H320 and its Rockbox firmware. Worked nicely, provided you had a good .txt source11:01
RST38hjohnx: Institutions are dumping their whole libraries because of the switch to ebooks11:02
lcukyeah johnx I am the same11:02
RobbieThe1stThe lack of "special" characters, italics and bold is a slight problem though, for some authors11:02
RST38hjohnx: So, I would say, ebooks win in terms of the scale of effects :)11:02
* johnx shrugs11:04
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lcukRobbieThe1st, if ASCII is good enough for porn, its good enough for authors :P11:10
* RST38h also feels that ASCII is sufficient11:11
RST38hOk, make it CP1251 :)11:11
BCMMare you suggesting that people who use non-latin languages should communicate solely through porn?11:11
mavhcI mostly use my kindle as an rss reader, desktop app to email rss2ebook converted files11:11
RST38hBCMM: Deep.11:11
BCMMRST38h: LOL.11:11
johnxBCMM, I was about to remind lcuk about non-latin characters, but I find your proposal intriguing11:12
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lcukBCMM, LOL!11:15
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Myrtti♥ Calibre11:16
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MohammadAGI miss how how tmo was in December11:19
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MohammadAGfreemoe's dead :/11:19
lcukBCMM, RST38h - I dread to think the responces to an RFC on that proposal11:20
lcukresponses even11:20
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johnxafter years of kinda holding still, how does debian still have one of the better net installers ... ?11:23
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RST38hjohnx: They have not been adding garbage, like the rest? =)11:24
FauxFauxI know the guy that did it, and he's Fucking Amazing? :p11:25
lcukjohnx, it was designed at a time when 9600 was the fastest and so was built for strength and stability, now that design makes even more sense again :P especially as mobile networks are prone to not being as reliable as our home nets? :D11:25
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johnxopensuse 11.3 (the latest) just asked me to type in the address of a mirror and the full path down to the repo content file11:25
johnxRST38h, lcuk, you have it wrong. the other net installers do *less* AFAICT11:25
johnxmaybe I'm like doing this wrong or something ...11:25
johnxFauxFaux, the debian net installer guy? really?11:26
lcuk>> airport11:26
johnxlcuk appended to airport11:26
johnxthat actually makes sense if I take it literally11:27
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lcuk"taking it literally" in the context of porn communication could be a bit troublesome :P11:27
johnx>> bed11:29
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RST38hjohnx shifted himself by bed.11:33
RobbieThe1sticuk: While ASCII's fine for text, if the writer's used to writing in RTF, or forum-code, it... doesn't always come out so good11:34
johnxRST38h, it's valid hex :P11:34
Sceltgreat news for mini opera too11:34
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RobbieThe1stFor instance, one book series had a name with an accented e in it. I could either have a blank block, where it couldn't be displayed in the current font, or a regular e. I used a regular e, but it still looked weird. Same with people who use italics or bold to denote speech/telepathy or some other form of communication11:36
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* johnx was too harsh to opensuse, is totally impressed that the installer happily runs paravirtualized under xen11:39
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RobbieThe1stBack to my rootfs image issue. Out of curiosity, I tried making a jffs2 image and flashing that. It didn't work either, but came up with almost the same issue, aside from that the checksum error wasn't there. Because of this - and that the PR1.2 rootfs image works - I think there's an error in my mkfs.ubifs configuration11:40
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RobbieThe1stAnd for my ubinize.cfg11:41
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RobbieThe1stMohammadAG: Do you happen to know of any other sources of N900-nand flash data? Like, any way of checking if was done with the right options?11:45
alteregoSo MeeGo gets a palm guy and palm get the meego guy, interesting11:45
Appiahwait what11:46
RST38hjohnx: installer does WHAT?11:46
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Appiahpalm devices with meego :)11:47
* RST38h fetches cross, holy water, a couple of stakes11:47
Appiahcant remeber the last time I saw someone using a palm..11:47
xkr47at my work, a guy just switched from palm to samsung android something11:47
xkr47he was sad to switch away from such a polished gui11:48
xkr47or maybe it was htc rather than samsung11:48
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RobbieThe1stWell, I suppose I've gotten enough progress done for one day. I have to say though, I think I'm gonna keep that framebuffer kernel. >:3 Makes it boot -so- much cooler11:51
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Venemo_N900hey guys11:52
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hrwxkr47: switching from palmos -> anything is pain11:53
RST38h(but worth it)11:53
hrwxkr47: it is always lose of functionality11:54
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hrwRST38h: give me PIM apps from palmos on android...11:54
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mecefunny this:
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RobbieThe1sty'know, something I'm curious about: When you first install PR1.2, on the first boot you get a really nice screen that lets you select time. Its this nice touch-sensitive, graphical clock you can drag about. Date selection's also nice. Yet, I haven't seen -one- other interface that uses that style. Not any of the Nokia apps, and not any 3rd-party apps.11:59
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MohammadAGthat app doesn't use hlibildon for scrolling lists afaik12:01
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RobbieThe1stHuh, so what, was it a tech demo or something?12:02
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MohammadAGRobbieThe1st, more like an app to give you better first impressions12:05
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RobbieThe1styea, makes sense i suppose12:05
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MohammadAGmaxximuscool has been posting a lot of BS recently12:07
* MohammadAG gives up on booting the MeeGo kernel with maemo 512:08
MohammadAGI wonder if it has mtd support compiled in12:08
alteregoMohammadAG: yeah, I've noticd he's been posting a lot of kid posts recently, I thought he used to be cool ...12:11
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merlin1991hey could someone paste me the content of the autorun.inf on the n900, had to remove mine because it was a rootkit entry13:50
jpinx-eeepcmerlin1991: where is that in the fs?13:52
ieatlintuh, i don't think there is an autorun.inf...13:53
merlin1991oh yes there is13:53
merlin1991it defines the symbol that is used13:53
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ieatlintwell, it's not on my phone on the sd card or in mydocs, and i don't recall deleting it13:54
jpinx-eeepccat autorun.inf13:54
ieatlintbut maybe i did...
ieatlintgoogle found it quickly enough13:55
jpinx-eeepcmerlin1991: ↑↑↑13:55
merlin1991thx jpinx-eeepc, Kaadlajk13:55
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alteregoWhat good is wine on arm anyway?13:56
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ieatlintuh, i doubt it compiles on arm13:58
alteregoIt does13:58
ieatlintthat's funny13:58
alteregoThey winehq guys are apparently supoporting rm development13:58
alteregoarm development ..13:59
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ieatlintthat seems to imply they're running qemu on the device to emulate x8614:01
hatake_kakashiwine can't emulate x86 natively, even if it could the windows programs needs to be based on arm/armel14:03
alteregoThe idea is win32 ports to arm14:04
alteregoSo no x86 emulation,14:04
merlin1991ARM based superphone N900 running the x86 wine binary via a statically compiled arm qemu binary, within an x86 chroot.14:04
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yaccWell, somebody did bochs for the n900 which seems like crazy idea, ...14:05
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alteregoThat's something different to what I was looking at/reading then ;)14:05
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zutesmogif all of the core wine api's are ported to arm.  Then you have a wine api for arm for porting apps14:05
alteregoNot such a crazy idea when the A9 takes off :D14:05
alteregoARM Cortex A914:05
RST38halterego: And, obviously, A9 will be an order of magnitude faster than A8?14:06
yaccWell, guess I'll have to wait for next christmas before there will be an userupgradeable A9-for-N900 package, right?14:06
alteregoRST38h: dual core 1.6Ghz14:06
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alteregoPotentially ..14:06
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yaccIt's not as if there are endless lists of announced Maemo or Meego devices, ...14:07
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alteregoSome serious welly that's for sure14:07
hatake_kakashiindeed a very warm and very battery hungry device will be on the horizon for a dualcore 1.6 using n900's puny battery14:07
alteregoyacc: I imagine Q2 2011 when MeeGo is in a fully usable state it'll gain a lot more traction from 3rd parties14:07
alteregoThat is a pure estimation by me, Nokia should have released their N9-01 which will be full MeeGo hopefuly by then14:08
yacchatake_kakashi, well, at least the N900 seems to charge rapidely on the power outlet charger, ...14:08
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RST38halterego: Cooool. And what would be the memory connected to that?14:09
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yaccalterego, The forces of the counter revolution are fully entrenched, did you noticed that all new Nokias are despite they comment that N-series will be Maemo are still Symbian?14:09
hatake_kakashiyacc, it literally defeats its purposes that it has phone funtionality.. meaning new owners will have to run and plug their power starved n900 or fear losing portability14:09
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alteregoyacc: I think that is after the N8 ;)14:09
dRbiGanyone here used uae4all?14:10
yacchatake_kakashi, well, yes and the traditional solution to that is known, I've got it already half-implemented, ...14:10
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hatake_kakashiyacc, and that's a battery back or the lesser known mugen powerpack?14:10
hrwalterego: I think that meego may become cellphone user ready in 2012. this does not mean that nokia will not release anything before - they already said few times that Harmattan != MeeGo official release14:10
yacchatake_kakashi, my second BL-5J is already lying on my desk, now if Amazon manages somehow to send the stuff that they taken the money for already, I'll have an external charger that can keep the second battery all times charged.14:11
hatake_kakashiI don't understand why wouldn't nokia keep versioning simple.. all maemo/meego should have letter M... all symbian devices has S.. done14:11
alteregohrw: that's why I said after the N9, which I presume is MeeGo/Harmattan14:11
hatake_kakashiyacc, and you'll have downtime for everytime you swap the battery14:11
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yacchatake_kakashi, but there are different "symbian" devices. For Multimedia, Fun, Enterprise, ...14:12
alteregoI think even as MeeGo stands now, the 1.1 branch could be utilised by vendors, it just requires a lot of love.14:12
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hatake_kakashiyacc, so add -M, -F -E for example.. S3-E14:12
yacchatake_kakashi, well, better a 60seconds downtime, than "couple of hours till I get home" downtime.14:12
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yacchatake_kakashi, as I'm a G1 refugee, I know the drill.14:13
hatake_kakashiyacc, or there's the option of carrying a large battery pack and forget about taking it to camping, because that will need to munch on car battery14:13
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yacchatake_kakashi, and yeah, the down time is irritating, especially the physical handling, but only till you realize that it's still a huge improvement over offline-till-office-or-home14:14
hatake_kakashiyacc, the drill for battery swapping? meh.. BL-5J isn't even available out in the normal shops.. never ceases to amaze me why they made n900 different battery size and what not.. all is well that it leaves owners high and dry till extras is available14:14
yaccBl-5J is trivial to pick up, but if you want it cheap, you'll have to order it from Amazon or Ebay, ...14:15
hatake_kakashiyacc, not so when you can just buy external power packs to keep n900 juiced up14:15
alteregohatake_kakashi: it shares the same battery as the 5800's14:15
hatake_kakashiits not so easy to buy BL-5J out where I live14:15
yacchatake_kakashi, as it happens I do have an USB power source powered by standard AA battery slots too, ...14:15
hatake_kakashialterego, and the same with me brother's X6-16GB14:15
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hatake_kakashiyacc, well you came prepared didn't ya? :p I'm planning to go buy meself a nice power pack when I go overseas next year14:16
yacchatake_kakashi, the battery situation on the N900 is a big improvement over the 9500. There hasn't been any external charger for these babies, ...14:16
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hatake_kakashiyacc, how is it any improvement when: 1) it loses 100+mA 2) There's no retailer that stocks them unless you go to either nokia care centre or you order them online?14:17
yacchatake_kakashi, well, as some people have already confirmed the pattern [female: the battery keeps an eternity, male: the battery is through in less than 12h, on the same device], I'm one of these power suckers, ...14:18
hatake_kakashiyacc, had it been the same battery as all the other NIT series I wouldn't have to wait to get BL-5J14:18
yaccAnd the G1 battery pack is14:18
hatake_kakashiI'm sure I still can't readily and easily obtain BL-5J.. what joy14:19
yaccyeah a puny joke were the words I've been looking for.14:19
yacchatake_kakashi, well, first generic solution is an external USB battery. Does not look cool, when you run around with a cable around, but better than a dead device, ...14:19
hatake_kakashiyacc, I don't understand what you said last about female and male pattern14:19
hatake_kakashiyacc, and at least your internet tablet/phone is still kept alive despite extra ugly wiring14:20
hatake_kakashiyacc, or swapping batteries and hope you haven't missed any important calls14:20
yacchatake_kakashi, well, I've observed it with the 9500 and the E61, where my wife and me had exactly the same device, ...14:21
yacchatake_kakashi, I've been out of power often during the day, especially if I did not charge completely during the night.14:21
yacchatake_kakashi, my wife could leave the phone for days in her handbag.14:22
hatake_kakashispeaking of which about power packs, that nokia's power pack is completely ludicrous.. not only was it fitted with a puny battery, it doesn't even charge my n90014:22
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hatake_kakashiyacc, I'm sure there are plenty of females who would spend their time blabbering away.. hence that's why phones makes it convenient14:22
yacchatake_kakashi, so battery size is always relative to the usage pattern. The N900 battery is absolutely okay for somebody that uses it as a phone and does SMS with it.14:22
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hatake_kakashiyacc, remember the firmware 1.1 and prior to those where n900 had a lovely one-two days uptime?14:23
dneary_amigadave, ping?14:23
dneary_amigadave, Are you sure about the change of directory from /usr/share/pixmaps to /usr/share/icons?14:24
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yacchatake_kakashi, OTOH, if you are online all the time (IM clients e.g.), especially via UMTS (aka your stupid premium network does not offer EDGE inside of cities), you won't last 24h.14:24
hatake_kakashiyacc, and again I must mention yet again, the due credit to the lack of availability of BL-5J..14:24
yacchatake_kakashi, where are you located that it's so big an issue?14:24
yaccI mean there are at least a dozen sellers on Amazon alone, ...14:25
hatake_kakashiyacc, not so much of just being online, a couple of widgets, a few hours of bluetooth music and sharing and occasional web browsing and I could see half the battery is drained if I'm lucky14:25
dneary_amigadave, Never mind... just rereading the spec: "Icons and themes are looked for in a set of directories. By default, apps should look in $HOME/.icons (for backwards compatibility), in $XDG_DATA_DIRS/icons and in /usr/share/pixmaps (in that order). Applications may further add their own icon directories to this list, and users may extend or change the list (in application/desktop specific ways).In each of these directories themes are st14:25
dneary_ored as subdirectories. A theme can be spread across several base directories by having subdirectories of the same name. This way users can extend and override system themes. "14:25
hatake_kakashiyacc, .au14:25
yaccinetnum: -
yaccnetname:        H3GAIPNET14:25
yaccdescr:          3G Mobile Service Provider,14:25
yaccyeah, I noticed :)14:26
hatake_kakashiI prefer to source spare BL-5J in proper retail stores than online14:26
hatake_kakashiyacc, mm and?14:26
hatake_kakashibtw EDGE isn't available here..14:26
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TermanaDesireThat's not true14:26
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hatake_kakashiwhich providers have them and they retail N900 then?14:27
sezuanIs anyone aware of a psi build for the n900?14:27
TermanaDesireI'm in Australia - there is EDGE.14:27
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TermanaDesirehatake_kakashi: dodo14:27
peb_kakashi, 2 times 9V Blocks + USB Adapter go a long way in terms of uptime ... just my 2 cents14:28
hatake_kakashiTermanaDesire, the last I checked dodo doesn't have n900 retailed.. plus they lack retailer shopfrons14:28
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infobothatake_kakashi meant: TermanaDesire, the last I checked dodo doesn't have n900 retailed.. plus they lack retailer shopfronts14:28
yacchatake_kakashi, well, 3 in Austria is even funnier, they've got only an UMTS license, ...14:28
TermanaDesireNot the best of companies but they do14:28
hatake_kakashipeb_, not that I am particularly handy with d-i-y electronics14:29
yacchatake_kakashi, they do commercials about the newest and best 3G network, but nobody realizes why the same mobiles batteries drain so much faster with them :-P14:29
TermanaDesirehatake_kakashi: they list the n900 on their site under contract14:29
yacchatake_kakashi, well, I do not buy service and phone from the same source, best way to loose money, ...14:30
hatake_kakashiyacc, it doesn't mean anything.. most providers here use UMTS and I'm not using my n900's sim card to surf internet right now.. last but not least 3 doesn't retail n90014:30
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yacchatake_kakashi, why would you want to buy the N900 with a contract?14:30
hatake_kakashiyacc, again not really getting the point of not being able to source BL-5J spares14:30
yacchatake_kakashi, no network in Austria, AFAIK, offers the N900?14:30
hatake_kakashiTermanaDesire, and there's no shopfronts14:31
yacchatake_kakashi, ask for batteries for Nokia 5800?14:31
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hatake_kakashiyacc, not Austria, Australia14:31
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hatake_kakashiyacc, only one and they had shop front, crazy johns and they go through vodaphone14:31
hatake_kakashiyacc, tried that, no dice, not even for x614:32
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TermanaDesireAnyway if your looking for a battery why not just get one from eBay14:33
hatake_kakashiI said before I don't buy that sort of stuff from internet14:33
toggleshatake_kakashi: has bl-5j14:33
hatake_kakashiI rather buy them from shops14:33
togglesfair enough14:33
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hatake_kakashitoggles, yeah and pay for nice shipping bills to be delivered overseas + again defeats my purpose of not willing to purchase the online14:34
hatake_kakashidespite their rarity14:34
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togglesnope, no shipping, $16US14:34
togglespretty much australian now..14:34
togglesparity party anyone?14:34
hatake_kakashi"You may also reach us live by calling (+86) 1353-0080-484, (+86) 13714039173, (+86) 13714478454new!. Our office hour is between 9am to 6pm HKT/GMT+8 (lunch break between 11:45AM and 1:15PM), Monday through Saturday except public and statutory holidays"14:35
hatake_kakashiumm yeah.. that does state they're in Australia14:36
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TermanaDesirehatake_kakashi: he was talking about almost parity between the AU and US dill14:39
TermanaDesireDollar *14:39
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hatake_kakashiTermanaDesire, for the time being yes but that doesn't mean that you won't have to pay for shipping fees no?14:40
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* TermanaDesire rolls eyes14:41
hatake_kakashiI was at once to the point of wanting to buy BL-5J (at least 3 months ago) but now I just don't see any point when battery packs can keep n900 on and on14:41
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TermanaDesireHe was saying the item is $16 US dollars with no shipping fee. Then he remarked "pretty much Australian now" meaning the amount of US dollars equaling about the same in Australian dollars14:43
toggleshatake_kakashi: try this please note the "FREE SHIPPING" listed14:43
togglesthey also have a "clone" for $3.67 which I can't attest to, but the one listed as "genuine" works ok, I can't tell which of my batteries is from them14:44
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zutesmogN900 is down below $425 in AU$ from 3 different online retailers.  Pretty close to parity with the US.14:50
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toggles.005 left to go..14:52
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DocScrutinizerwhat? kernel mtd is 2MB on N900? OMFG, we got severe problems with 2MB limits for kernels, in OM/OE14:54
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DocScrutinizerand our limit was just in uBoot env... btw:14:56
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: will meego dual boot uBoot have envs at all? where eare they stored? I suppose in cal, where they "belong"14:57
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crashanddiejohnx, have you not seen the $800 3D printers?15:03
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ieatlintthe $800 3d printers aren't that nice15:05
dneary_amigadave, back from lunch?15:06
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DocScrutinizermeh, I have a 150$ 3D printer ;-P15:07
ieatlintgod, that has to be even worse than the makerbots :P15:07
DocScrutinizercan print enough 3D on transparent plastic to create fake fingerprints from it15:07
ieatlinti'm guessing you were at the ccc a couple years back then15:08
DocScrutinizerI've been always associated to the CCC to some degree15:08
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ieatlinti'm still hoping i'll be able to afford it this year15:09
DocScrutinizerheh, I'm still hoping I'll get tickets this year15:10
dneary_Stskeeps, Any ideas where I might get definitive docs on the .desktop file parsing?15:10
DocScrutinizerluckily this year it's my friend's turn to pay the whole thing for him and me :-)15:10
ieatlinti need friends like that15:11
Stskeepsdneary_: the source?15:11
Stskeepshildon-desktop, specifically15:11
dneary_Stskeeps, That's a start :) Thanks15:11
ieatlinti've actually got a free place to stay in berlin thanks to a friend, but can't drop the airfare+food+booze cost at the moment15:12
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: did you say the kernel can't be >2MB, this morning?15:12
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StskeepsDocScrutinizer: NAND area is 2mb size, you can load more into ram15:12
Stskeepswith uboot you can load larger15:12
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dneary_Stskeeps, :)15:14
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DocScrutinizer2MB turned out to be too small nowadays15:14
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Stskeepsdneary_: yeah..15:14
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* DocScrutinizer feels headache coming while trying to wrap his head around mtdparts15:16
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dneary_Stskeeps, I really like that article15:18
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DocScrutinizerdneary_: I once had the specs for .desktop, but for the life of mine I can't find it anymore - dunno if it was on, or on some page or where else15:20
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dneary_DocScrutinizer: fd.o15:21
dneary_DocScrutinizer: The spec actually lists some of the KDE & GNOME extensions, as well as the standard fields15:21
dneary_DocScrutinizer: But I can't find anything about Maemo extensions15:22
DocScrutinizerooh, yes. Obviously :-/15:22
DocScrutinizer...though I never noticed there are any15:24
DocScrutinizerhmm, now there might be, e.g. for sorting/positioning the icons15:24
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amigadavedneary_: pong15:27
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rmrfchikoh, noes, wrong channel detected15:44
crashanddiermrfchik, yeah, dont' do that again please :)15:45
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rmrfchikhope, your terminals didn't get broken cause of 8bit15:46
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crashanddieieatlint, makerbots are actually pretty nice15:46
ieatlinti disagree15:46
ieatlintthey are good for their cost15:47
ieatlintand they are a cool project15:47
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ieatlintbut they have a lot of issues15:47
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DocScrutinizerrmrfchik: just my eyes and brain hurts15:52
* RST38h comes back to life. Anything I've missed?15:54
DocScrutinizerPR1.7 release ;-P15:55
alteregoAnyone have a kernel with working kexec?15:56
DocScrutinizeralterego: see Stskeeps commenting on it yesterday in this chan15:56
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alteregoOh, whoops15:56
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RST38hDoc: Enables WindowsPhone7?15:57
DocScrutinizerseems all the PR1.3_comes_with_dualboot_for_meego hype is based on fixed kexec15:57
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DocScrutinizer...while, ironically enough, aiui meego will not even use kexec as they go for uBoot chainloading now :-P15:59
alteregoDocScrutinizer: that's what I wasw thinking, I also thought maybe there's a NOLO update that allows it to bootstrap uboot, as I thought that was the general direction the N900 adaptation team were heading, but I might be wrong.15:59
alteregoAnd as no one has mentioned that ..15:59
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DocScrutinizerNOLO can chainload right now16:00
alteregoOh, cool16:00
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DocScrutinizerso there'll be no NOLO update for this issue16:00
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dsgyep, works great. I noticed the slow start (fading in LED for 2s before starting the phone) was broken when chainloading uboot, but I guess that's fixed if it's going into an official maemo version :)16:01
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RST38hDoc: So, how will the dual boot procedure look from the end user point of view?16:01
DocScrutinizeraiui you can install meego with uBoot right away, no matter which maemo PR16:01
DocScrutinizerRST38h: Stskeeps said it's looking for a kernel on uSD, and if it doesn't find any, then it loads the 'standard' maemo kernel16:02
DocScrutinizerI hope there'll be a bootmenu as well16:02
DocScrutinizerthat's the reason why I asked for uBoot env, where uBoot stores his 'menu'16:03
dsgDocScrutinizer: When I tried the uboot stuff (a couple of months ago) the environment was hardcoded in u-boot16:03
dsgBut that might have changed16:03
RST38hDoc: Ok, so a proper uSD partition is all you need? But once you have that partition, there is no user option to select one or the other?16:04
DocScrutinizeruBoot needs a dedicated mtd partition to store env, afaik16:04
DocScrutinizerRST38h: that's how I got it yesterday, yes16:04
alteregoRST38h: the basic idea was if you've got a MicroSD inserted with a kernel on it, it'd boot MeeGo, then you take that SD out and it'll boot maemo16:04
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alteregoNot sure I like that way tbh, but that's what I think Stskeeps has been talking about recently.16:05
DocScrutinizeralternative: rename the kernel(-symlink) on uSD16:05
Stskeepsother ways might be possible, but that's first approach..16:05
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DocScrutinizerboot-meego() {mv /media/card/vmlinuz.disabled  /media/card/vmlinuz}16:07
RST38halterego: Given the pain of inserting another uSD, this does not seem to be very user friendly16:07
alteregoRST38h: it's not supposed to be ;)16:07
RST38hyea, right16:07
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DocScrutinizerboot-maemo() {mv /vmlinuz /vmlinuz.disabled}16:07
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alteregoIt's not exactly developer friendly either (from my perspective) as you need the SD in in order to flash a new rrtfs16:07
infobotrootfs is, like, mount ro, but all the nessary files that need to be writen to are created in a ramdisk that is rw16:08
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: you've seen my suggestion to patch uBoot to keep his ENV in CAL?16:10
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Stskeepshowever our knowledge of storing stuff into CAL (at least in public) is a little bad16:10
Stskeepsand corrupt cal == bad16:11
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DocScrutinizerIt's born out of the problem we probably don't have a dedicated mtd partition for uBoot to store env there16:11
DocScrutinizerStskeeps: (problems introduced with CAL) ack16:12
dnearyamigadave, I guess you saw my response - both icons & pixmaps are OK (icons is searched first)16:12
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DocScrutinizerStskeeps: is there any documentation about mkmtdparts and how and in which way N900 NAND is partitioned?16:13
Stskeepskernel? think partition table is there16:13
Stskeepsthough im not sure16:14
dnearyAlthough there must be some way to specify $XDG_DATA_DIRS instead of /usr/share, no?16:14
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DocScrutinizernot kernel, the real basic partitioning of NAND, creating mtd's and assigning them to CAL, kernel, rootfs, whatnot16:14
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DocScrutinizerI'm not even sure which program/process is supposed to deal with this. Seems flasher not always bothers to check and fix mtd partitions, maybe only on clodflash16:16
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DocScrutinizeron Openmoko, we had to follow a rather icky process including oddly named tools like devirginator, to create new mtd partitions16:21
DocScrutinizernand_erase_all and nand_write another few16:22
* ShadowJK thought there was no partition table except the one passed as bootargs to kernel..16:22
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DocScrutinizerthere is *some* partitioning that e.g. uBoot is using, which aiui is stored to env but also somewhere in "partition tables" in NAND16:23
amigadavedneary: sorry, was off for a bit16:25
DocScrutinizeras said above: [2010-10-15 14:16:37] * DocScrutinizer feels headache coming while trying to wrap his head around mtdparts16:25
amigadaveyeah, XDG_DATA_DIRS is just an environment variable that one can set16:25
dnearyThe MeeGo trademark fight's fun to watch16:25
dnearyPity it's so important16:25
Stskeepsdneary: even more fun considering opensuse's own trademark rules16:26
Stskeeps(worth a look)16:27
dnearyamigadave, So you think s/pixmaps/icons improves things?16:27
amigadavedneary: yeah, the file was a PNG after all, not an XPM :)16:27
amigadaveit works in pixmaps, but was a little confusing16:28
dnearyamigadave, There was one other change I wasn't sure about, but I'm sure you checked it...16:28
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amigadavei checked the changes, so that EXTRA_DIST was not required16:28
amigadavethe dist_ prefix already ensures distribution :)16:28
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dnearyThe changes to were what I was wondering about16:30
amigadaveyeah, there is basically no need for EXTRA_DIST, comman fallacy16:30
infobotamigadave meant: yeah, there is basically no need for EXTRA_DIST, common fallacy16:30
dnearyI had understood that NNNdir was used to install NNN_DATE16:30
dnearyNNN_DATA even16:30
dnearySo pixmapdir -> pixmap_DATA16:31
dnearyAnd you have icondir and dist_icon_DATA16:31
amigadavethere is also nodist_ if the file to be installed is generated and should not be ditributed :)16:31
dnearyAnd desktopdir, dist_desktop_DATA16:31
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GAN900Why the hell is Xorg eating %16 of the RAM. . . .16:51
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mgedminit's holding pixmaps for all the clients16:52
mgedminand it has the frame buffer mmapped into its virtual memory areas16:52
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* RST38h agrees with Milhouse: a magic button at boot time feels like the best solution16:58
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GAN900HP and Nokia are doing Wife Swap for execs.16:59
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njainHey all!16:59
RST38hEach is getting rid of someone they no longer want16:59
njaini love my N90016:59
fcrochikhi...does anybody know if yahoo is usefull anywhere but the US? The APIs they describe seem to assume US as the only option... I don't know if they have a different set api/docs for each country...doesn't seem like17:00
alteregoGAN900: not Palm?17:00
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njainbut the absense of a button to recieve a call is very bad..17:01
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fcrochikalterego: Palm=HP17:01
alteregoOh, I did not know that :)17:01
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GAN900alterego, same thing.17:02
jpinx-eeepcfcrochik: yahoo what? messenger?17:02
njainis there a way to get any other button to pick up the call..17:02
fcrochikjpinx-eeepc: as "local search"...17:02
jpinx-eeepcnjain: you can set it to autoanswer I believe17:02
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njainbut even then its a problem..17:03
jpinx-eeepcfcrochik: local as in - within the country you'resitting in?17:03
ieatlintfcrochik: oh, don't worry, it's not useful in the US either17:03
njainwhile i am fetching the phone from my pocket..17:03
jpinx-eeepcnjain: why?17:03
njainif it autoanswers in that time..17:04
fcrochikieatlint: that is what I was afraid... I thought about implementing yahoo (instead of google) search on geeps but I don't think is worth17:04
* jpinx-eeepc fails to see the problem with call answering17:04
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fcrochikjpinx-eeepc: local = search for things around your current position17:04
jpinx-eeepcfcrochik: hell no - google is better by far17:04
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hrwdid someone know application which can sync ldap<>maemo contacts?17:05
fcrochikjpinx-eeepc: I assume is better... it is just that google is only json...17:05
njainoh when i get a call i have to recieve it using the touch button..17:05
njainthat auto appears!17:05
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njaini guess?17:05
jpinx-eeepcnjain: I have mine set to manual answer, minimum time to screen off/lock. from ringing in my poccket I only have to flick the side switch to retart the screen and hit answer17:06
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ieatlintheh, yeah, json still sucks in c/c++ .. or at least isn't included in any standard libs17:06
fcrochikieatlint: I probably will just bite the bullet... I really miss being able to search for a business name ....most of the time I don't know the address17:07
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ieatlintthere is qjson, not sure if it's in the repos17:07
fcrochikieatlint: one thing I have to say about yahoo: I liked the idea that you can search for a place around a path (not just position)...17:08
ieatlintyahoo is better for scripting... the YML stuff can do some very interesting things17:08
ieatlintalso, yahoo pipes can be interesting... but no one knows about it17:08
njainin my case when the phone rings the screen is powered on and most of the times when i am travelling i touch reject instead of accept!17:08
jpinx-eeepcfcrochik: might work in USA/EU but the rest of the world uses google17:08
ieatlinttook a friend who works there to tell me it even existed, heh17:08
jpinx-eeepcnjain: you need to sort out your settings, mine stays screen off but rings17:09
fcrochikieatlint: qjson is on the repository...I will give a try17:09
njaindid you configure some options?17:09
jpinx-eeepcnjain: of course17:09
njainok cool17:09
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ieatlintfcrochik: i'll be interested to hear how easily it works..17:09
jpinx-eeepcnjain: can't remember exactly what - play with it nd see17:10
njainhmm thanks17:10
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fcrochikieatlint: I also found a simple recipe on to parse json just using the standard script tools.... it didn't seem any better or worst than qjson17:10
njainbut still i was thinking in case some button vol/power could be configured to pickup a call17:11
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njainit would be great!17:11
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njainthe problem is the bumpy roads here makes me mess up the buttons..17:12
fcrochiknjain: for me the ideal solution would be to have something like the "lock button" enable the buttons.... I was click the reject too17:13
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fcrochiknjain: let me try again: for me the ideal solution would to have to slide the "lock buton" to enable the buttons to answer/reject the call (when the phone is locked).... I always click the reject button by mistake17:14
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njaini think i will try your suggestion.17:15
njainand then see if i still need the button.17:16
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BCMMif you required the lock button to be used, you could also permit the use of, for example, vol up and vol down to reject/answer17:18
BCMMwhich would fix the bumpy roads thing17:18
BCMMi am commenting cluelessly on a conversation i did not hear the beginning off, and will shut up now17:19
njainBCMM: that was what i thinking to map it to17:19
BCMMthis whole conversation is happening because somebody already said that, then?17:19
fcrochikBCMM: I said lock button but I was thinking about the "thing" on the right side of the phone...don't know how it is called....17:19
BCMMyeah, that's the lock switch17:19
BCMMor button, or something17:19
BCMMi don't really know what to call it17:20
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BCMMyou know, it really looks as if you need to slide it to open the kb or something17:20
fcrochikBCMM: for me that would be the only safe thing.... I always have my phone on my pocket and anything else could be a false trigger17:20
njaindoesn't matter what we call it i think we are getting what lock button is.17:20
jpinx-eeepcnjain: stop the car to answer the call - it's illegal in most countries to use a phone while driving17:21
BCMMfcrochik: well, you can't press the answer button while the proximity sensor is engaged17:21
BCMMi assumed he was a passenger17:21
njainoh i am not driving.17:21
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BCMMillegal in most countries, stupid in every populated place17:21
njainyeah i am a passenger17:21
fcrochikBCMM: but somehow I managed everytime I remove the phone from my pocket and before I get a chance to look into the screen to not touch the "sensor" and touch somewhere on the screen - usually on the reject button! :)17:22
BCMMit would be nice to be able to answer the phone without touching the screen actually17:22
BCMMfor if you're fingers are not very clean17:22
BCMMi was fixing my bike yesterday, and actually answered with my nose17:22
BCMMso as not to leave a greasy black fingerprint17:23
njainBCMM: yes! i agree with you.17:23
jpinx-eeepcmake it auto anser17:23
jpinx-eeepcyou have options - use them17:23
BCMMactually, isn't there an app to answer with the camera button? or is that just to hang up17:23
BCMMi'm talking about phone speaker switcher or whatever it is called17:24
BCMMthe one that lets you switch the speakers on when the proximity sensor detects you taking the phone away from your head17:24
jpinx-eeepcmine is sittng on the desk here propped up on it's tand and it auto answers and goes to speakerphone - no sweat17:24
BCMMactually, that applications is really useful17:24
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Corsacjpinx-eeepc: is it easy to switch mode?17:25
jpinx-eeepcCorsac: yes17:25
njainbut still there should be someway to configure the button to answer the call17:25
jpinx-eeepcit's like anything - you need to learn how to drive it ;)17:26
njainall this is fine17:26
fcrochikieatlint: did you see this:
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fcrochikieatlint: it seems easy enough17:26
BCMMit's neat because otherwise, you have to take the phone away from your head, wait for the screen to turn on, then press the button17:26
ieatlintindeed, that certainly makes it look simple17:27
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BCMMwhich takes long enough that you have to tell the person on the other end what you're doing so they can stop talking for a bit17:27
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fcrochikieatlint: qjson sounds cool because you can go c++ -> json too but I don't need that...17:28
njainjpinx-eeepc: i am ready to learn17:28
njaincould you suggest me a start place..17:28
ieatlintyeah, plus simpler to not add extra libs, especially ones that aren't always available17:28
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nidOdoes fsck included with maemo actually do anything? :\17:37
GAN900Yellow journalism in forum threads is getting old.17:38
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mgedminnid0, which fsck? dosfsck or e2fsck?17:42
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MohammadAGnidO, it borked my SD card filesystem twice, so I guess it does :P17:43
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mgedmindosfsck is very user-unfriendly17:45
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mgedminif you do not give it a command-line argument, it doesn't write anything to disk17:45
mgedminit _asks_ "do you want to replair?", you answer (y), it _pretends_ to repair, but because of the lack of that command-line option (-a, iirc), it doesn't actually change anything -- and doesn't tell you it didn't change anything17:45
* mgedmin hates17:45
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dnearyHi again17:47
dnearyI'm looking for information again :)17:48
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njainshortcutd is a good option.17:57
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* RST38bis moos evilly18:07
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dRbiGdoes the standard maemo's multimedia player scan whole MyDocs for stuff or has it some config file where i can restrict where it looks?18:14
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dRbiGi've started using gpodder+pannuci and i really don't like podcast showing up inbetween my music files18:14
DocScrutinizer51there is a conf ile18:15
dRbiGveeeri godt :)18:16
DocScrutinizer51check wiki, usr:joerg_rw/tools for a link18:19
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DocScrutinizer51tracker is the sucker18:19
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DocScrutinizer51dRbiG: /home/user/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg18:26
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dRbiGDocScrutinizer: yeah. i also found a thread how to rebuild the indexes without rebooting18:48
dRbiGas 'reboot' is not in my standard technical vocabulary :)18:49
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DocScrutinizermhm, there's some "tracker-* --foobar" commands to somewhat manage this POS18:52
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DocScrutinizerthe only semi decent way to deal with it were to write a virus to delete every file on every machine in this universe that refers to trackerd/thumbnailer18:53
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dRbiGmh, sound like another openmoko18:54
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mgedmindRbiG, have you tried turning it off and on again?18:54
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DocScrutinizerthough tbh it's not exactly tracker that's *BAD*(tm), it's the way maemo (and meego >:-/ ) are using it18:56
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DocScrutinizerthere's just one thing that's even worse than the mere fact tracker is used for creating a shadow flat "filesystem index" for all media, and that's the way it is configured to actually accomplish that task18:59
oshinanyone know how to remove the plastic theme setting button that keep appearing on the start of the setting panel?19:01
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oshinit keeps showing "Plastic Theme Setup" for a moment then the button disappear.19:02
oshinI already tried remove --purge but didn't seem to help19:02
nidOmgedmin ad MohammadAG: just fsck - running it followed by any normal switches just prints its version name and does nothing else19:03
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mgedmindefine 'normal switches'?19:05
nidOwell the most straightforward example, running "fsck -A" just returns "fsck 1.41.3.maemo0 (12-Oct-2008)"19:06
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DocScrutinizeroshin: install another theme? I guess it's like with kernel, you can't simply uninstall a theme, you need to replace it by another (talking outa my ass!)19:06
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mgedminand /sbin/fsck is a real binary, not a symlink to busybox19:06
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mgedminI have to say I never tried to run fsck on maemo19:07
oshinDocScrutinizer, plastic theme one has like.. custom settings panel19:08
oshinDocScrutinizer, I didn't use the theme anymore but the button to set the theme still exist for a second before the setting app fully started19:08
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oshinlike settings app can figure out later that the actual plugin for the setting didn't exist (removed by apt)19:09
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DocScrutinizeroshin: if it's only for the button appearing though it shouldn't, then it's just poor coding. The button object gets instantiated though some condition checked later on says it shouldn't and removes it. But as long as you actually got that theme, I can't see why you'd not want this button19:09
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oshinDocScrutinizer, I removed the theme, but the button is still there.19:10
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DocScrutinizeroshin: aah, ok, yes probably apt-get --remove doesn't do what you expected it to do19:10
oshini apt-get remove --purge19:10
oshinhow does settings app query for the underlying backends?19:11
DocScrutinizeroshin: it's clearly a bug of that theme pkg. Open a ticket for it19:11
oshinDocScrutinizer, yes, I just wonder if I could fix this for myself19:11
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oshinso may be I could submit a more descriptive bug report for better karma19:12
DocScrutinizersure you can. IIRC there's some XML like file defining all the settings plugins. I assume it's got edited by your theme install, and the remove didn't revert that edit19:12
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oshini wonder what process i could strace19:12
DocScrutinizergrep for the button string19:13
oshinlol why i never thought of that19:13
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oshini did some grepping though19:13
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DocScrutinizeroshin: not-my-nokia removes a settings menu button - you might want to have a look into it how it's done there19:15
oshinDocScrutinizer, neat idea, thanks19:15
oshinbah.. busy box grep didn't have --include19:15
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* oshin looks for gnu grep19:15
DocScrutinizerapt-get install coreutils-gnu19:16
javispedroso I've had to witness the transformation of "pr1.3 might have something that makes booting meego slightly more easier" into "omg nokia is releasing meego! rulz! omg!" by the press.19:16
oshini already have coreutils-gnu19:16
javispedronot a nice sight.19:16
Myrttijavispedro: welcome to the club19:17
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: usual way things go with the lemmings, no?19:17
MyrttiI saw that already yesterday19:17
oshindpkg -L coreutils-gnu|grep grep shows nothing eh19:17
infobotSTILL a ban'able subject, more than ever19:17
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but this means the world is _full_ of lemmings! *sad realization* *cries*19:18
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oshini just grep for everything, okay19:18
DocScrutinizeroshin: for your convenience:
oshinDocScrutinizer, thanks!19:18
oshinok, i just grep with find19:19
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oshinanyone know why ari left?19:20
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Myrttioshin: he does19:23
Myrttispeculation gives me a rash19:23
cehtehHP pays more :)19:23
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: nota bene Stskeeps explained yesterday all that's new in PR1.3 maemo is a fixed kexec, and meego won't use that (so the whole "meego comes with PR1.3 completely obsolete info) as meego will switch - or has switched - to uBoot chainloading so won't need any kexec19:24
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: isn't that double funny? XP19:26
javispedroDocScrutinizer: doesn't surprise me. But fixed kexec is good news (dunno about Meego, I wanted it for some tests of mine).19:26
DocScrutinizersure a working kexec is a great thing, but the whole hype is complete nonsense now19:27
* MohammadAG attempts to install Kubuntu 10.1019:27
MohammadAGjavispedro, how much is a displayport adapter?19:27
DocScrutinizerdualboting to meego is here right now aiui, and won't get *any* easier with PR1.3 :-P19:27
javispedroMohammadAG: check ebay. hardware wise, dirty cheap.19:28
javispedroDisplayLink, you mean?19:28
MohammadAGmy bad, that19:28
MohammadAGthe one you used with the N900 in May?19:28
javispedrolg panel builtin19:28
javispedrothere are three versions of hardware right now iirc19:29
javispedrobut they all should be covered by modern libdlo, _unless_ they deprecated it because they were aiming for a proper kernel framebuffer driver19:30
javispedroDocScrutinizer: I wonder who will be the one that will tell tmoers they can run Meego right now if they wanted to...19:32
javispedrowill it be their arch-enemy didn't-give-flash-to-me Stskeeps (btw, late congrats!) ?19:32
javispedroengadget: "Hit the source to get fully educated while waiting on the dual-booting PR 1.3 update to drop". How ironic.19:34
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javispedroaha, Flandry told them. Let's hope they listen this time.19:38
MohammadAGStskeeps, what is the meego image's file system format?19:39
MohammadAGdoesn't seem to be ext319:39
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MohammadAGKernel panic with ubuntu19:45
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MohammadAGAttempted to kill init19:45
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javispedrobtw MohammadAG, did you know that Madde now has a working system qemu for the n900?19:50
javispedro(I at least didn't)19:50
javispedroIt helps for trying images without breaking the battery cover.19:51
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RST38hhello, javispedro btw19:53
* RST38h unsubscribes from Faster Kinetic Scrolling thread19:54
RST38hcoompletely ruined by noise19:54
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javispedronot surprising, it has all necessary keywords19:56
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RST38hWhat is the current deal with Mohammad's SSU, anyway?19:56
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* javispedro wonders how many packages will be bumped in pr1.3 thus breaking ssu19:58
* javispedro prays for nokia gods to pull tracker patches from bmo as I don't want to keep on patching it every time.19:59
RST38hForget those fake nokia gods19:59
RST38hPray to the Tentacled One19:59
DocScrutinizerWTF tracker patches?20:00
DocScrutinizerfor tracker even the Tentakled One boggles20:01
oshinanyone know if the swapollube something actually help with battery life?20:01
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javispedrovery old ones I sent in -- mostly oneliners fixing typos causing album art discovery to be ... "unreproducible".20:01
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RST38hThe only proper tracker fix is the one that disables it =(20:02
DocScrutinizer[2010-10-15 17:53:36] <DocScrutinizer> the only semi decent way to deal with it were to write a virus to delete every file on every machine in this universe that refers to trackerd/thumbnailer20:02
* javispedro partially disagrees, but not in a flame mood today =)20:03
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hooray for fubar album art - I cursed that one since ages20:03
DocScrutinizer[2010-10-15 17:56:00] <DocScrutinizer> though tbh it's not exactly tracker that's *BAD*(tm), it's the way maemo (and meego >:-/ ) are using it20:04
DocScrutinizer[2010-10-15 17:59:38] <DocScrutinizer> there's just one thing that's even worse than the mere fact tracker is used for creating a shadow flat "filesystem index" for all media, and that's the way it is configured to actually accomplish that task20:04
RST38hThere isn't much you can do configuring it on Maemo20:05
RST38hIt still comes down to traversing media files20:05
DocScrutinizer*ALL* media files, even though you only *deleted* _one_ lously picture20:05
RST38hAFAIK it only checks files you add20:06
RST38hdeleting a media file should not invoke it20:06
javispedroit does only check added files for media player at least.20:06
javispedromaking it recheck a file (for example for album art retrieval) was quite hard.20:06
javispedroI used to have to delete the entire database quite often.20:07
RST38hthere is a way to reset the index, via dbus20:07
jacekowskitracker should use that kernel thing i forgot name of20:07
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jacekowskithat notifies about changes20:07
RST38hit does20:07
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DocScrutinizerhmm, not checked it thoroughly - just did a test some 60min ago: take a pic with cam, on preview open galery, delete the pic in galery, close galery, close camslider and cam-gui. Watch load applet hit the roof20:07
RST38hbut I guess it is acting on that initial picture-added event20:08
RST38hjust too slow with it20:08
nidOwoulsnt that just be tracker running for the newly added picture, just not that quickly20:08
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DocScrutinizerwhatever it does, it almost freezes the device on doing it20:09
javispedromight it be photo gallery app itself?20:09
RST38hit is NOT the gallery app20:09
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DocScrutinizerah I forgot: "watch galery app adding one thumbnail after the other, for age old pictures that for sure got already thumbnailed" :-(20:10
RST38hgot proof of that?20:11
javispedroI do not get the behaviour, trackerd jumped to 7% and tracker-indexer to 2%20:11
DocScrutinizerwhat kinda proof - my eys see it20:11
RST38hMy eyes see tracker trying to index a newly shot photo20:11
RST38hAnd yes, the goddamn daemon appears to hang the device20:12
javispedropossibly because ls ~/MyDocs/DCIM | wc -l is 200 only on my device20:12
RST38hMost likely due to swapping + data access20:12
DocScrutinizergalery has lots of black photo thumbnails coming up one after the other over 20s, and load applet is at max CPU20:12
RST38hjavis: naah, I do not think it matters20:12
DocScrutinizerIt seems to me this awful behaviour is new since I copied 13GB of mp3 to MyDocs20:14
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RST38hDoc: I think something else is going on with your device20:15
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RST38hDoc: Dump dbus traffic, during the time when it is hanging20:15
RST38hJust to see what the hell is going on20:16
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ls ~user/MyDocs/DCIM | wc -l20:16
DocScrutinizerRST38h: k20:17
DocScrutinizerRST38h: system or session bus?20:17
RST38hDoc: All, I guess20:17
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RST38hDoc: And if you can track file accesses, dothat as well20:18
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javispedroall tracker stuff runs under "user"20:18
DocScrutinizerany suggestions *how* to do that, without running every process under strace control?20:18
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javispedrothere's a sysctl setting that dumps such stuff to kernel log afaik20:21
javispedroaha, gotya20:22
DocScrutinizerthenumberthenumberthenumber?? err, got a cmdline?20:23
dRbiGhmm, the tracker settings for scanning of mounted/removable cards are well useless20:23
DocScrutinizervirtually all tracker settings are useless20:24
dRbiGbut i got it not to scan all MyDocs20:24
DocScrutinizermeh, I'm going to monitor session bus now20:24
javispedroDocScrutinizer: seems that you need syslogd, so it might not be worth the effort20:24
pupnik_ is epic today...20:25
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dRbiGi had to turn off this second option too20:25
DocScrutinizerdo you think I got no syslogd on my device?? :-D20:25
javispedroheya pupnik_20:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, qemu? why?20:26
pupnik_hi javispedro20:26
MohammadAGmy battery cover's bottom clip is already broken btw :P20:26
javispedroMohammadAG: well, trying stuff before flashing it, specially if you get to use stock kernels20:26
MohammadAGnothing noticeable though, it's as good as before20:26
RST38hMohammad: Is there anything new and exciting happening with your community ssu?20:26
pupnik_17:16 <+srogers> Sure, everyone has seen Cheers, but they don't realize what it's like  when everyone sees it *at the same time* - because that's all there is  for weekday entertainment20:26
pupnik_someone scrolled right while i was middle clicking20:27
MohammadAGjavispedro, I want to find the kernel bit that dismounts the mmc when the cover is removed20:27
dRbiGxkcd... yeah the would would be a better place20:27
javispedroMohammadAG: your anecdote makes me want not to remove that battery cover never again.20:27
dRbiGi hate phone support20:27
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MohammadAGRST38h, not really, I was working on it, HAM refuses to accept the config20:30
MohammadAGand PR1.3 is close, so :)20:30
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javispedroMohammadAG: wild guess: ;P20:30
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MohammadAGjavispedro, already found it with grep lol20:31
MohammadAGdrivers/mmc/host/omap_hsmmc.c:/* Protect the card while the cover is open */20:31
RST38hMohammad: IMHO as long as apt-get works, HAM is secondary20:31
javispedro... with the amount of people that have removed the fremantle metapackage due to extras-devel induced chaos20:32
MohammadAGhost->protect_card = 1;20:32
javispedrogetting HAM to work again without reflashing is going to be a though job.20:32
* MohammadAG sets that to 0 muhahaha20:32
RST38hjavispedro: hopefully, the upgrade from mohammad's to pr1.3 should work =)20:33
DocScrutinizerpupnik_: a million thanks for sharing this one :-D20:33
javispedroRST38h: depends on whatever upgraded packages "the fake nokia gods" surprise us with.20:34
MohammadAGRST38h, my changes are easily reverseable20:34
* javispedro fails at yoda grammar20:34
RST38hMohammad: I have not found a way to downgrade back to pr1.2 though20:35
MohammadAGapt-get install hildon-desktop=1:2.2.138-1+0m5 to restore modest20:35
MohammadAGerr, hildon-desktop, why did I say modest...20:35
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RST38hBut I also installed your metapackage20:35
MohammadAGsame goes for others20:35
MohammadAGyou can reinstall the Nokia one once you downgrade all 5 packages20:36
RST38hah ok20:36
MohammadAG3.2.13-3+0m5 modest20:36
MohammadAG0.3.38+0m5 hildon-status-menu20:36
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MohammadAG0.3.66-2+0m5 hildon-home20:36
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MohammadAG1:2.2.65-1+0m5 hildon-application-manager20:37
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RST38hNew Fringe episode yeste^H^Htoday20:37
Goliath23where should homescreenwidgets install additional files they need (sounds e.g.)20:38
RST38hGoliath: usually/usr/share/<packagename>20:38
Goliath23and: whats the best way to play a sound in maemo? (QSound is not supported, so I need to resort to something else. if nothing else works, maybe a system call?)20:39
javispedroRST38h: Fringe. They just started airing it on here. What I found most surprising about it was finding "Artificial Intelligence" in the opening' list of fringe sciences =)20:39
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: RST38h: OMFG :-O20:39
MohammadAGuse /var/lib/dpkg/info/*list20:39
DocScrutinizerattention spam!20:39
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DocScrutinizermethod call sender=:1.255 -> dest=org.freedesktop.thumbnailer serial=24 path=/org/freedesktop/thumbnailer/Generic; interface=org.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic; member=Queue20:39
DocScrutinizer   array [20:39
DocScrutinizer      string "file:///home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Anastacia.discografia.completa.mp3/Anastacia%20-%20Not%20That%20Kind/anastacia-not%20that%20kind-back.JPG"20:39
DocScrutinizer      string "file:///home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Anastacia.discografia.completa.mp3/Anastacia%20-%20Not%20That%20Kind/anas20:39
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DocScrutinizer+5000 more20:39
javispedrohow you dare.20:39
RST38hjavispedro: oh, I always cringe at that list20:39
RST38hDoc: pastebin, please20:40
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RST38hCan't read a thing here20:40
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* MohammadAG kicks DocScrutinizer thou dare defy IRC rules?20:40
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RST38hjavispedro: popular ideas about "science" are funny20:41
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* MohammadAG wants a drum app20:42
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pupnik_that might be better with capacitive20:42
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RST38hnah, will do just fine with the nails20:43
RST38hexcept N900's pressure readings are useless20:43
DocScrutinizerRST38h: (pastebin) "sorry, length of code exceeds 90k" - that's ONE dbus msg20:44
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pupnik_RST38h: i've used drum apps before.  i think being able to trigger more than one sound at a time is pretty integral to the whole concept of 'drumming', RST38h20:44
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RST38hDoc: ahhaha20:45
MohammadAGscrew it20:45
* MohammadAG wants drums20:45
RST38hpupnik: true20:45
* MohammadAG waits for Rock Band 320:46
RST38hDoc: So, essentially, this thing may hang because it tries passing the whole list of your media files as a single dbus message?20:46
javispedrothis rings a bell20:46
Goliath23is there a lightweight tool to play a sound from commandline? or maybe a dbus call? (maemo 5 pr 1.2=20:46
javispedroiirc one of those otherwise non-maemo related posts about tracker-"new generation" was that passing results of queries via dbus was über slow20:47
javispedroGoliath23: there's paplay from pulseaudio-utils. You want to do this from a QT application?20:47
MohammadAGGoliath23, play-sound, overrides volume control20:47
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Goliath23javispedro: yes20:47
DocScrutinizerRST38h: exactly (one dbus msg)20:48
Goliath23MohammadAG: volume control shouldn't be overridden in my case20:48
javispedroGoliath23: Have you tried Phonon?20:48
RST38hDoc: That should be visible in a repository somewhere, right? It is open source?20:48
Goliath23javispedro: QSound?20:48
Goliath23javispedro: no I haven't ...20:48
DocScrutinizerno idea, sorry20:48
MohammadAGthere should be a Q<insertname> thing20:48
javispedroGoliath23: what's wrong about QSound?20:49
Goliath23javispedro: it isn't supported according to the plpatform notes20:49
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DocScrutinizerbbl, have to run20:50
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javispedroqt is a damn mess for audio.20:50
RST38hjavispedro: Oh well20:50
MohammadAGjavispedro, Goliath23 why QSound when you can use ?20:51
DocScrutinizerjust one word: it's amazing dbus doesn't explode on that :-/20:51
RST38hjavispedro: In general, I would avoid Qt APIs outside of their proper GUI domain20:51
Goliath23MohammadAG: haven't thought about that. I had the impression, QSound would use Phonon. will try it now!20:51
RST38hDoc: I thik I know what happens20:51
RST38hDoc: Thumbnailer seems to ask the database for all jpgfiles in the system20:52
RST38hDoc: Probably via that bastardized SQL query they have (SPARQL?)20:52
javispedrohow does he trigger this message?20:53
javispedroI made a picture and got that method call but with only the just taken picture as argument.20:54
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javispedrowait no.20:54
javispedroNot that method_call.20:54
javispedroah yes, yes.20:54
javispedroorg.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic.Queue aai20:55
javispedrodeleting it from photo gallery caused org.freedesktop.thumbnailer.Generic.Delete with that file20:58
javispedroI guess such a large dbus message is not cause but symptom =)20:59
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* MohammadAG watches as the silver thingy around the camera lens decomposes into black shit21:03
javispedro"This bug means that any application using QAudioOutput will randomly hang or crash - sometimes even taking the complete desktop with it. " sigh.21:04
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kerioand they wonder why people keep using stuff like pulseaudio21:08
RST38hjavispedro:may be both symptom and the reason21:08
RST38hjavispedro: depends on how much time sqlite takes to compute it, and how much time thumbnailet takes to process it21:09
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javispedroRST38h: the question is why such a big query21:10
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RST38hjavispedro: SELECT Name WHERE TYPE='IMAGE'21:10
RST38hjavispedro: feeling like looking at the sources?21:10
javispedronobody sane would make such a query for every photo deleted/added21:11
RST38hThey are here:
javispedroRST38h: did you see ?21:11
javispedrothat's what I get, much saner results.21:11
RST38hjavispedro: I will have to babysit for the next 15-30 minutes, so take a look21:11
RST38hjavispedro: looks correct, indeed21:12
RST38hI should try it myself, in 20-30 minutes21:12
RST38hLook, maybe Doc's filesystem reports wrong file modification dates???21:12
javispedroMohammadAG: Goliath23: while on the topic of QT audio,
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: too much LSD?21:13
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javispedro"After a long discussion I’ve realized that phonon could not be used [...]. At this time I’m using an approach suggested [...] : play the sound using pulseaudio’s API."21:13
* RST38h silently weeps for the /dev/dsp*21:14
* RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to subject all audio framework designers to severe punishment21:15
GAN900I wonder how the architecting of that stuff could go so wrong.21:16
DocScrutinizer(<javispedro> nobody sane would) you're suggesting galery and mediaplayer concept has been written by sane people? MUHAHA21:16
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the use of tracker clearly proves the opposite21:16
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RST38hGAN: Audio, you mean? Really easy21:17
* DocScrutinizer joins in silent weeping, but for alsa dmix21:17
RST38hGAN: All you need to do is abstract from the actual code development and concentrate on the Structured Architectural Design21:18
RST38hGAN: And then you lay a turd.21:18
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DocScrutinizer:-D :nod:21:18
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RST38hGAN: Same goes for Tracker, btw21:20
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: well yes, may Maemo sanity be with all of you =)21:21
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* javispedro goes try this beat maker app, might make for a nice "drum app"21:22
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javispedroopen source software released on ovi store??? ohnoes21:22
javispedrotouché :)21:23
JaffaRepackege it effor Eextras '=-)21:24
GAN900"Because we're too incompetent for packaging which'll get through the autobuilder."21:24
RST38hbtw, Nokia Launchpad is now free21:24
RST38hand they offer Ovi Store publishing21:24
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GAN900Jaffa, no, you stab your eyes out with rusty spoons.21:24
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RST38hGAN: 1) No wonder Firefox cannot get through autobuilder 2) they can still place it into non-free21:25
RST38hWhat REALLY makes me wonder is why they create a new deb repository for EACH FireFox package release, even if it is just a beta21:25
javispedro"non-free-political-reasons", "non-free-tech-reasons"21:26
RST38hwho cares about the reasons?21:27
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RST38has far as I am concerned, it is just a way to publish a package that for whatever reason cannot be run through the autobuilder21:27
MohammadAGnothing cannot be run through the autobuilder21:28
GAN900RST38h, incompetence.21:29
javispedrodepends on the level of readability of the source I'd say.21:29
javispedroyou can always pass base64'd binaries as source package, and call unbase64-ing them "building" =)21:30
RST38hbut that would be cheating21:30
RST38himho just placing them into non-free is less cheating21:30
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: RST38h: well, I can't really complain - I *asked* for galery showing *all* pictures, when I clicked on that little icon bottom right in camera-ui it opens up "/all pictures/DCIM/20101015_001" and when closing this it climbs up the "path"21:33
DocScrutinizeron closing window after window finally you end on "all pictures/" and that window *must* ask for a dbus-msg of that structure, size, and content21:35
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DocScrutinizerthe basic issue is (once again) tracker searching directories it never should touch21:36
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DocScrutinizeras in "Darn, I *do not want* cover art of my mp3 stuff showing up in galery!"21:37
javispedrothat's an interesting issue actually21:38
javispedroknown cover art doesn't show up21:38
MohammadAGit earns my WONTFIX ;P21:38
* MohammadAG thinks is dead21:38
RST38hno shit sherlock21:38
* javispedro looks into his photo gallery to see all his cover art showing up. this broke again, I guess.21:38
RST38hit is not just cover art21:40
RST38heven applications artwork shows up21:40
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javispedrothat should definitely not happen, unless applications store their artwork on ~21:41
RST38hjavis: some store stuff in MyDocs21:41
* javispedro has bunches of theme hospital artwork (& media) on gallery, but that's because theme hospital requires case insensitive fs.21:42
DocScrutinizer(<javispedro> known cover art doesn't show up) sure, because braindamaged mediaplayer doesn't recognize *.jpg - it only can detect embedded cover art aiui21:42
javispedroDocScrutinizer: oh, it does recognize whatever you throw at it, as long as you pull all bmo patches in.21:42
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javispedrowithout them, whatever it discovers art or not is pretty much random21:43
javispedroas there's at least ONE bug that cause it to forget about such art randomly21:43
javispedrogot the über large .Queue message, it just overflown my xterm21:44
RST38hMohammad: Looks like you may want to add a modified Tracker to your SSU :)21:44
RST38hjavispedro: whadidyoudo21:44
javispedrowas browsing photo gallery using the "Filter by Folder" menu item21:44
DocScrutinizerthe WHAT?21:45
DocScrutinizerduh, never realized that one21:45
MohammadAGRST38h, hmm? what modified tracker?21:46
javispedrordfq:Condition>  <rdfq:and>    <rdfq:inSet>  <rdfq:Property name="File:Path" />  <rdf:String>/home/user/MyDocs/DCIM,/media/mmc1/DCIM</rdf:String></rdfq:inSet>          </rdfq:and></rdfq:Condition>21:46
javispedrothere you have the responsible sparql query21:46
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javispedro... or maybe not, seems not to search inside all of ~21:47
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* DocScrutinizer chokes21:47
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DocScrutinizersparql - yuck21:48
javispedroeither way, dunno, I cannot reproduce it without enabling weirdo filters.21:48
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: RST38h suggest that maybe your mtimes from your files are broken21:48
* DocScrutinizer shrugs21:49
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DocScrutinizerhow could they?21:49
javispedroI mean, in the future or sth.21:49
dolphow could i find out why my widget just disappears from the desktop after a while21:49
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DocScrutinizerwhat means 'broken'?21:49
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RST38hMohammad: Doc says there are patches to tracker in some bmo thread21:51
javispedroones I remember right now: bug #9316, bug #931721:51
povbotBug Tracker doesn't run album art heuristics for non-mp3 audio files21:51
povbotBug Tracker doesn't import album art from .mediaartlocal at all21:51
DocScrutinizerbash-3.2$ stat /home/user/MyDocs/allofmp3/mp3/Depeche\ Mode_Rock/Depeche\ Mode\ -\ Precious.mp3.jpg21:52
DocScrutinizerAccess: (0644/-rw-r--r--)  Uid: (29999/    user)   Gid: (    0/    root)21:52
DocScrutinizerAccess: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.00000000021:52
DocScrutinizerModify: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.00000000021:52
DocScrutinizerChange: 2010-09-25 02:08:52.00000000021:53
javispedrobug #7413, etc21:53
povbotBug Cover art not shown for Ogg Vorbis files21:53
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DocScrutinizerbug1: mediaplayer is broken by design21:55
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RST38hYou can just as well clam the whole Maemo5 broken21:58
DocScrutinizernah, there's a lot of nice clean things, like... errr.... waitaminute....21:59
* javispedro still uses winamp as mediaplayer on desktop for some reason. an outdated version. under wine.21:59
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, gconf?21:59
* MohammadAG laughs diabolically21:59
RST38hjavis: same here, winamp on windows22:00
* DocScrutinizer shudders22:00
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pupnik_javispedro: i've done that too (re winamp)22:02
pupnik_back when xmms started crapping out on long playlists22:02
DocScrutinizer52AACFLRM: do you think this is a nice nick making your non-botty nature obvious to everybody?22:02
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wolf^javispedro, foobar2000 is better than winamp22:04
javispedropossibly will work better under wine, without funky windowing behaviours.22:05
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pupnik_i liked foobar2k also22:12
pupnik_now it's usually just mplayer, or maybe qmmp22:12
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ShadowJKoh wow22:28
* ShadowJK hates radio22:28
pupnik_wow, "cheeky monkey" was a very early-90s phrase wasn't it22:28
* SpeedEvil loves radio.22:29
ShadowJKSo I thought I had found this amazing hotspot of 3g in the room22:30
ShadowJKbut then it went to 0 at some point22:30
ShadowJKThe 3g phone was ontop of an envelope22:30
ShadowJKI hadn't noticed, but under the envelop was a USB extension coord that dangled down towards the floor22:30
ShadowJKwhen I removed the coord, 3g signal went down by 20dB22:30
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DocScrutinizerRF is voodoo22:31
DocScrutinizeryou can ask any RF EE to confirm this22:32
ShadowJKeven more amazingly, it only seems to "work" with the cable running close to the bottom of the phone, at a specific angle and specific distance22:32
ShadowJKsire os22:32
ShadowJKsure is*22:32
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ShadowJKThe very fucked up thing is, that if Nokia Energy Profiler's readings are to be believed, this little cable, when correctly aligned, works better than purpose built inductive couplers22:33
DocScrutinizerif you're interested in RF voodoo tales, just follow up the whole buzzfix story at OM22:33
GAN900You think we'll miss cellphones that make speakers click in 10 years?22:33
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ShadowJKtouching the metal parts of the phone makes the headphones connected to my PC buzz22:34
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DocScrutinizerathena rework is one of my favourites22:35
ShadowJKoh that was the solution22:35
* ShadowJK put piece of paper between cable and phone, and signal jumped from 0 bars to full bars (wtf?)22:36
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truderhi, i wonder if anyone can help me, just got a new n900, but for some reason, i cannot get my wifi to work. it never detects any signals. (Tried flashing (including emmc), but still nothing. something strange i'm noticing is that when i type; ifconfig wlan0 up u get: SIOCSIFFLAGS: No such device22:45
MohammadAGcheck dmesg output22:48
* ShadowJK 'd return it22:48
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DocScrutinizeriwlist wlan0 scan22:50
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DocScrutinizerlsmod|grep wl12xx22:53
truderwith dmesg (assuming i did it correctly), i got the same messsage22:53
truderi wrote: "dmesg | ifconfig wlan0 up"22:53
truderif i simply write; dmesg | ifconfig wlan022:53
truderi get the details for the interface22:54
DocScrutinizerdmesg | grep wlan22:54
truderi get no output for that22:54
ShadowJKoh gah, I think it was the combination of extension coord, and (unconnected) rolled up nokia microusb cable a bit further away22:54
DocScrutinizerwhat's the result of >>iwlist wlan0 scan<< then?22:54
ShadowJKvoodoo :-(22:55
truderDocScrutinizer: i need to install the wireless tools for that right ?22:55
DocScrutinizernot sure, don't think so22:55
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trudergot iwlist: not found. ( when i had wireless tools, prior to flashing, i got something like the interface is not in a state to perform this command )22:56
truderor some message to the same effect22:56
truderi'm starting to think it's a hardware problem, but i wanted to make sure before returning22:56
DocScrutinizerid ?22:57
truderid means ? (sorry i'm quite green to this )22:57
MohammadAGdoes ifconfig even list the interface?22:57
trudersimply typing : ifconfig, i don't get it listed no22:58
DocScrutinizertruder: you're root?22:58
truderif i type ifconfig wlan0 i see the details22:58
ShadowJKwireless tools aren't installed by default22:58
truderDocScrutinizer, yes, using rootsh22:58
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DocScrutinizerhmm, my doesn't mention any wireless tools I ever installed22:58
DocScrutinizermaybe they come as a dependency of some weird pkg?22:59
DocScrutinizeror I installed them long before I 'invented' my logged apt-get23:00
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truderwhen i try manually typing the commands found at:
MohammadAGiwlist is part of wireless-tools23:02
truderstarting from the else part, i get to start wlancond successfully, but then the next cmd fails :/23:02
DocScrutinizertruder: let's start with >>osso-product-info|grep RELEASE_VERSION23:02
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, mobilehotspot depends on it23:03
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: though I never installed that23:03
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MohammadAGcat /var/lib/dpkg/stats | less23:04
truder( i installed the global version )23:04
MohammadAGcat /var/lib/dpkg/status | less23:04
MohammadAGthen /wireless23:04
DocScrutinizerlcuk: how far you got with your generic customer service script?23:04
MohammadAGtruder, what does lsmod | grep wl output?23:04
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DocScrutinizerMohamo lessmadAG: odds are he got n23:05
DocScrutinizerMohamomadAG: odds are he got no less23:05
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, that was for you lol23:05
truderMohammadAG, i got a couple of lines, would you need all info ?23:06
MohammadAGno, only the wlan driver, wl12xx                 77568  023:06
truderwl12xx 76864 023:06
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MohammadAGso the module's loaded, hmm23:07
DocScrutinizerPackage: wireless-tools23:07
DocScrutinizerStatus: install ok installed23:07
DocScrutinizerso I'm not any wiser now23:07
MohammadAGyou installed it on your own then23:07
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pupnik_surreal video game video - "8 Bits"   - for the Emulator guys23:07
MohammadAGyou are now :P23:07
vanadismobilehai thar23:07
DocScrutinizer(<MohammadAG> so the module's loaded, hmm) mmpf ->[2010-10-15 21:53:15] <DocScrutinizer> lsmod|grep wl12xx23:09
truderbtw, i got two other lines which contain, the wl112xx: "mac80211 122954 1 wl12xx" and "crc7 1216 wl12xx"23:10
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MohammadAGmy N900's very hot :/23:11
trudermine will soon be very smashed against the wall hehe23:12
MohammadAGtruder, I'm assuming you have no custom kernels installed?23:12
MohammadAGls /sys/class/net/wlan0/23:12
truderno i flashed the image and the emmc, and installed the official bin files23:13
truder( latest obviously )23:13
DocScrutinizerapt-get install wireless-tools23:13
DocScrutinizeriwlist wlan0 scan23:13
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DocScrutinizertruder: rereading your original issue description, I got to ask: what are you doing to "get wlan to work" ?23:18
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truderDocScrutinizer, basically, i tried with different wifi routers (no security and broadcasting ssid)23:19
truderand it didn't detect any of them23:19
truderwhilst laptop and other mobiles23:19
truderdetect them23:19
DocScrutinizermaemo connectivity isn't exactly standard, so not all tools/procedures you might expect will work the way they usually do23:20
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truderso i've discovered23:20
DocScrutinizertruder: I'm just interested in what you did *on N900*23:20
MohammadAGhowever, it should just work23:20
truderDocScrutinizer; ok, so i click on the icon next to the battery display, i then click on: "internet connection"23:21
truderand i wait for it to search for a network23:21
DocScrutinizerlike in "clicking system status area, clicking 'connections'..."23:21
truderand it never returns anything23:21
DocScrutinizeryes, thanks. that's standard method23:21
MohammadAGcan you install sysklogd, and reboot the device?23:21
truderi've also tried going to settings, adding a new connection, " scan for available wlan networks > yes23:22
truderand same results23:22
DocScrutinizerI'd go for iwlist rather23:22
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, iwlist won't do anything to help if his hardware is broken23:22
DocScrutinizerI suspect a hw-defect23:22
MohammadAGexactly my point23:22
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: neither will syslog23:22
MohammadAGHW errors should show up in dmesg23:23
DocScrutinizernot if the device is logically ok23:23
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truderin progress, as i'm setting up internet via my operator settings23:23
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lcukDocScrutinizer, ? generic customer service script?23:23
DocScrutinizeriwlist will either barf when device is logically nonfunct, or it will simply show nuttin if antenna is borked23:23
truder( i guess there is no .all package i can simply copy to my mobile and install right ? they'd need more dependencies )23:24
MohammadAGSep 22 23:48:40 Nokia-N900 kernel: [26991.086273] wl1251: firmware booted (Rev
MohammadAGshould error out ^23:24
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DocScrutinizerlcuk: you came up with an isea about doing a low level "healthcheck" and aggregating things like osso-product-info etc pp into one file and upload to pastebin23:25
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, already done with phone-control, I just haven't documented it23:25
lcukahh yes, no, other things sidetracked23:25
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: not if transceiver or antenna is defect23:25
MohammadAGphone-control --diagnostics23:25
lcukthis big keyboard is awful23:25
MohammadAGshould write all that standard info into MyDocs in one file23:25
lcukfullsize 10x click23:26
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DocScrutinizertruder: did it ever work? how old is the device?23:26
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DocScrutinizer15SAAYYCR: damn, what's that with those funny nicks?23:28
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nice start23:29
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, any ideas what I could add to the above commands? again they're in the current phone-control package in -devel, just not in --help23:29
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DocScrutinizercat /dev/mtd2?23:29
DocScrutinizeror somesuch?23:30
truderit's only a couple of days old :/ and no so far wifi has never worked for me23:30
MohammadAGmtd2 hmm23:30
MohammadAGah, logs23:30
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DocScrutinizerthose notorious dsme logs23:30
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DocScrutinizertruder: swap!23:32
DocScrutinizertruder: hw defect23:32
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Venemohi guys23:33
DocScrutinizerlo Venemo23:33
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truderso, iwlist wlan0 scan: Interface doesn't support scanning: Network is down23:35
trudertrying sysklogd now..23:35
DocScrutinizertruder: either your wlan RX is broken, or the wifi antenna is defect. You could investigate further to tell apart, but to what benefit?23:35
DocScrutinizertruder: open up the 'connections' in system status, then try again iwlist23:36
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truderDocScrutinizer, I tend to agree with you, HOWEVER, i saw a number of posts in different sites, where people had the same or similar problems, and some solution or other (though i seem to have tried all now), including flashing.. solved them (for some at least )23:37
truderhope is the last to die.. :(23:37
DocScrutinizertruder: of course wlan system is powered down when not associated to AP and not scanning (started by maemo obscure connectivity framework)23:37
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truderDocScrutinizer: "open up the connections" in system status: is this "internet connections" in settings? Or is there some menu i'm missing23:38
DocScrutinizerthe first method you mentioned before23:38
truderah ok23:39
DocScrutinizer"clicking the icon right to battery..."23:39
DocScrutinizeryou see a small spinning progress clock in the top black bar, right to "change or stop connection"23:40
DocScrutinizerspinning means it's doing a 'iwlist wlan0 scan' as well (or something similar)23:41
truderah same thing.. no connections available23:41
truderi'll just take it back to have it exchanged23:41
DocScrutinizerwhat does 'iwlist wlan0 sca' say23:41
truderi guess i've expired all the options23:41
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truderno reply at all now23:42
DocScrutinizerwlan chip broken, or firmware defect. check md5 of firmware file23:42
DocScrutinizer(though when you flashed a fresh clean image... :-/ )23:43
DocScrutinizerit's supposed to 'just work'23:43
truderyep, that will be it23:43
truderthanks a lot for your time DocScrutinizer and MohammadAG23:43
trudermuch appreciated guys23:43
DocScrutinizercome back with your new device :-D23:43
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truderi will. i'm sure it's a good phone.. assuming it works :)23:44
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* DocScrutinizer files another bill to nokia customer support :-P23:46
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: lsusb? :-P23:47
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DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: cat /sys/*/*/*/*/* :-P23:47
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truderbtw, out of curiousity, what should the syslogd show me ? or what should i do for it to show me something ?23:48
Venemohi again23:48
DocScrutinizercat /var/log/syslog23:48
Venemomy N900 became faulty since yesterday23:49
GAN900Ha, what do you think level 3 support gets paid at Nokia?23:49
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DocScrutinizertruder: basically syslog will have same info like dmesg23:49
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DocScrutinizerjust not crippled23:49
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: should suffice for my beer tonight23:50
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VenemoI dropped the N900 accidentally yesterday23:50
DocScrutinizerVenemo: not yours now :-/23:50
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Venemosince then, it reboots at random times23:51
Venemoand it also goes into reboot loops when it feels like it23:51
Venemovarious... sw_rst and 32wd_to23:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo: was battery popping out, or device was off after drop?23:52
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DocScrutinizeror rebooted immediately after drop?23:53
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DocScrutinizerif so, odds are your fs got corrupted -> full reflash23:53
VenemoDocScrutinizer: it was on, battery didn't pop out23:53
DocScrutinizerhmm, do a full reflash anyway23:54
VenemoDocScrutinizer: then it began behaving oddly23:54
DocScrutinizerlast resort23:54
VenemoI did a reflash a couple of hours ago already23:54
Venemodidn't help23:54
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DocScrutinizerhw defect23:54
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DocScrutinizeronly thing you *could* try: get a new battery. Sometimes they suffer seriously from impact23:55
DocScrutinizerbut honestly, I doubt that will help23:55
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trudersyslog shows the following when i try ifconfig wlan0 up; warning wlan not ready and then error unsupport chip id: 0x023:56
DocScrutinizerhw defect, definitely23:57
truderi see23:57
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DocScrutinizerchip id 0x0 is bogus23:57
Venemosorry, things keep crashing all the time23:57
* lcuk ties Venemo down23:57
Venemolcuk, the IRC client crashes...23:58
lcukVenemo, ahh23:58
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lcukhow in gods name did I used to like typing on this big keyboard23:59
lcukit feels like an old manual typewriter23:59
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Venemolcuk, what?23:59

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