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| TNZ_ | hi all | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| TNZ_ | euuuuhh ... fresh news on PR 1.3 ?:D | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nox-: there are those lengthy lists in the universal remote manuals, like "Sony TV777UX: 430, 431; Samsung SuperVideoXL3: 431" if you got a samsung you'll probably also can use the remote for Sony (both 431) | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | boozetime, cheers | 00:05 |
| nox- | cheers | 00:05 |
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| nana | hello | 01:19 |
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| * ShadowJK is trying to familiarize himself with using symbian again before swnding n900 for repair | 01:43 | |
| ShadowJK | maemo sure is lightyears more userfriendly :) | 01:43 |
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| kerio | ShadowJK: ._. | 01:46 |
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| GAN900 | kerio, that's sad for several reasons, isn't it? | 01:49 |
| kerio | nah, just for the fact that he has to send his n900 to repairs | 01:50 |
| kerio | which is something *i* will have to do too, eventually | 01:50 |
| pupnik | what broke ShadowJK | 01:50 |
| kerio | (my usb port is *still* broken) | 01:50 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 01:51 |
| SpeedEvil | What broke? | 01:52 |
| kerio | it's been... what, 2 months? | 01:52 |
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| pupnik | 00:43 * ShadowJK is trying to familiarize himself with using symbian again before swnding n900 for repair | 01:53 |
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| * Chani wonders if there's a suse package for madde... | 01:59 | |
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| ShadowJK | cellular modem only works when device isn't moving | 02:07 |
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| ShadowJK | the moment i put it in my pocket and walk/jog/run, it starts disconnecting and crap | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes it pops up sim dialog | 02:08 |
| ShadowJK | sometimes just putting it down on a table makes it glitch | 02:08 |
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| ShadowJK | it works perfectly as a tablet though, so I've been procrastinating repairs sice it'll be gone a few weeks I bet | 02:11 |
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| SpeedEvil1 | have you tried new SIM/ | 02:13 |
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| ShadowJK | yes | 02:34 |
| ShadowJK | I've tried 3 different ones | 02:34 |
| SpeedEvil1 | I need to do the same - but I'm getting a new SIM to testr with first | 02:39 |
| SpeedEvil1 | getting towards that 12mo | 02:39 |
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| * nox- now knows why lirc couldnt send... the `irman' in the filename should have been a clue :/ | 03:16 | |
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| MrPPS | hey, two quick questions | 06:38 |
| MrPPS | 1, how do you turn off the camera sound in a nokia n900 | 06:38 |
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| MrPPS | 2, what's the default device lock code | 06:38 |
| MrPPS | i've tried 000, 0000, 1111, 1234, 0 | 06:38 |
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| pupnik_ | hey, can we get acoustic modem connections going over mic/speaker? | 06:41 |
| pupnik_ | bell 103, bell 202 ? or something made for acoustic applications? | 06:42 |
| pupnik_ | MrPPS: camera sound is stored as a .wav file that you can discover on the filesystem | 06:43 |
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| MrPPS | pupnik_: thanks :) | 06:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MrPPS: camera is silent on profile "silent" afaik. also you can check if >>IroN900:~# play-sound /usr/share/sounds/camera_snd_title_1.wav<< is the audio file you might want to replace by a 0 byte one. Lock code is 12345 afaik | 06:58 |
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| MrPPS | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the help :) | 07:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 07:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: via speaker&mic I'm sure this won't work. Via headset connector there should be no particular problem in running a softmodem | 07:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: http://bellard.org/linmodem.html | 07:22 |
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| CreamyG | does fcamera save pictures somewhere weird by default? | 07:29 |
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| Macer | anybody want a 2.2GHz 2GB 160GB MB for $300? | 07:47 |
| Macer | macbook | 07:47 |
| doc|home | stolen! | 07:47 |
| doc|home | Macer: link? | 07:48 |
| Macer | no.. mine lol | 07:48 |
| doc|home | really? why? | 07:48 |
| Macer | i dont really have a link for it.. i want to get a smaller netbook | 07:48 |
| doc|home | where are you? :) | 07:49 |
| Macer | it is in good shape | 07:49 |
| Macer | and has snow leopard on it | 07:49 |
| Macer | chicago | 07:49 |
| doc|home | too awkward. I'm in canuckistan | 07:49 |
| doc|home | would be tempted otherwise | 07:49 |
| Macer | lmao. well. i can ship it... i supose i can ebay it too | 07:50 |
| Macer | but figure i would ask here first | 07:50 |
| doc|home | it's a white one, right? | 07:50 |
| Macer | no | 07:50 |
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| Macer | black one | 07:50 |
| doc|home | hmmm | 07:51 |
| doc|home | no, must resist. thanks though :) | 07:51 |
| Macer | lol. ok ;) well.. im sure i can find someone to buy it here | 07:51 |
| Macer | maybe i will just go to uic an find a studebt to buy it.. it really is in good condition | 07:52 |
| Macer | student | 07:52 |
| Macer | i just started to try to sell it today tho so meh. people suck up apple products pretty quick :) | 07:52 |
| doc|home | yeah | 07:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Macer: isn't it a bit late for USA and a bit early in the morning for Europe? | 07:55 |
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| Macer | it is midnight in chicago | 07:57 |
| Macer | if you considert that late then yes ;) im a night owl | 07:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | me too, so time for bed for me - dawn outside | 08:02 |
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| RST38h | <yawn> | 08:09 |
| RST38h | Sooooooo.... PR1.3 today? =) | 08:09 |
| * luke-jr_ hides PR1.3 from RST38h | 08:10 | |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | RST38h: heh, why did it take so long until you update to 1.3? was therema blocker keeping you from it for 6 weeks? :-P | 08:35 |
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| mece | Perhaps a warning on tmo regarding backup-menu is in order? | 09:22 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hi all | 10:15 |
| RobbieThe1st | Anyone know why the forum DB keeps going down? | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | it's the riot caused after the flash 10.1 thing | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | probably ;) | 10:17 |
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| RobbieThe1st | I missed it; what, did they say it's never coming out? | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | nah | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 10:18 |
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| Stskeeps | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=833350#post833350 | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | start from there and go on | 10:19 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Hm... Now where did I put that old TI login.... | 10:22 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, hey, this has something to do with you I think: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-07.log.html#t2010-10-07T23:02:40 | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | I saw it, in response to an email I got from one of Andrew | 10:23 |
| mece | RobbieThe1st, ok, nevermind then ;) | 10:23 |
| RobbieThe1st | Essentially, worst case, you have to flash to PR1.2 again. It happens on like 40% of N900s. Why? Probably bad blocks. I have a new version that should solve the problem, but no one has tested it for me yet. | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: you're writing directly to NAND? | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | not nandwrite or nanderase? | 10:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | dd if=/myfile of=/dev/mtd5 bs=4096 or something like that | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | .. no no no | 10:25 |
| Stskeeps | you'll bust people's ability to flash | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | you need to look into mtd-utils | 10:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | Its worked so far... | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | since it's happening for people, it's not | 10:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | But, actually, I was thinking in terms of working file-level with tar etc. | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | you're basically screwing up the eraseblock information | 10:26 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, sitrep? | 10:26 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: mm? | 10:27 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Yea, I figured as much... is there a way to -read- an image going around those blocks also? | 10:27 |
| crashanddie | what did I miss? | 10:27 |
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| Stskeeps | crashanddie: in context of? | 10:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | Because even writing my images via the Nokia flasher doesn't work for some people | 10:27 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, dead NAND | 10:27 |
| mece | crashanddie: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-10-07.log.html#t2010-10-07T23:02:40 | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: backupmenu and even nokia care couldn't get someone's N900 back to life | 10:27 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: take a look at mtd-utils' nand* tools | 10:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | Whos? | 10:28 |
| crashanddie | mece, saw that, couldn't figure out the thread though | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: is in logs from last night afaik | 10:28 |
| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: we used those for initfs on n8x0 for ages, so they're safe | 10:28 |
| RobbieThe1st | I looked at the logs myself; couldn't see anything other than mohammadAG saying that someone complained about it "bricking". Which could mean needs to be flashed to factory default. | 10:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps: Got a manpage link or something? | 10:29 |
| RobbieThe1st | Y'know, I wish I'd known about some of this stuff earlier - its been like three months so far, and no one's suggested anything like mtdutils | 10:30 |
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| Stskeeps | RobbieThe1st: take a look at the bootmenu code from n8x0 | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/bootmenu/install_bootmenu?revision=55&root=bootmenu&view=markup , search for flash_eraseall | 10:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | Stskeeps: Hm, just out of curiosity, where is the kernel stored? On a partition of the NAND, or on a seperate chip? | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | and nandwrite | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | partition of nand | 10:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | (n900) | 10:32 |
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| RobbieThe1st | http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/nand.html <- How does that work then? | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | there's a partition table in kernel | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | and nolo takes care of eraseblocks etc | 10:33 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: has there been more recent releases (yes, I've been hiding under a rock for the past few months) than the original meego one released? | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | tybollt: didn't you see the recent video? | 10:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:36 |
| tybollt | Stskeeps: that was probably done by an insider w/ software not available to the public - yes? | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | no | 10:37 |
| tybollt | fair enough - the video is in scrollback the last 24h? | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWtMLs3j09U&feature=player_embedded | 10:37 |
| tybollt | thank you, sir | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | touchscreen response we're looking into still, something's really fucked | 10:38 |
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| tybollt | but the SGX bits are basically all there? | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | well, the SGX bits in this particular video is a bit unstable so they're not in the release track for 1.1 | 10:39 |
| Stskeeps | but they're bloody fast when they do work | 10:39 |
| tybollt | fair enough | 10:39 |
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| tybollt | isat a flying rabbit? How very monty python'esque ;) | 10:39 |
| mece | Stskeeps, is the "updated graphics driver" included in the 20101005 image? | 10:40 |
| tybollt | I have to say - the little anim it does when rotating the screen is very pleasing to the eye :) | 10:40 |
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| mece | tybollt, I think the delay before rotating is a bit too long for my taste. | 10:41 |
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| tybollt | mece: that's why stskeeps is here, so you can tell him directly ;) | 10:41 |
| mece | I'll have to see for myself though. writing the image to card as we sepak. | 10:42 |
| tybollt | me? I'd have to have it ina hand of me to form an opinion on that | 10:42 |
| mece | s/sepak/speak *mumble* *grumble*/ | 10:42 |
| infobot | mece meant: I'll have to see for myself though. writing the image to card as we speak *mumble* *grumble*. | 10:42 |
| Stskeeps | mece: no, as i said, not on 1.1 release track :/ | 10:42 |
| mece | Stskeeps, ok then. | 10:43 |
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| Stskeeps | mece: know enough to ssh in over usb? | 10:43 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, dunno how to do it on this computer unfortunately (windows xp) | 10:44 |
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| Stskeeps | mece: hmm :P | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | mece: cos you need to push forth and back some pieces to upgrade | 10:45 |
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| * crashanddie shoots a rocket at Oracle | 10:46 | |
| crashanddie | ~lart Oracle | 10:46 |
| * infobot takes a large goose feather pillow and swings it wildly in Oracle's direction, hitting Oracle and sending Oracle flying into the closet | 10:46 | |
| crashanddie | why the fuck would Oracle remove UML from Netbeans? | 10:46 |
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| crashanddie | Bunch of tits | 10:46 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, it's ok. I don't need to do it now. I guess we can expect 1.2 weekly's to appear after October 27th? Or before that? | 10:47 |
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| Stskeeps | mece: they should appear on wednesday earliest, but our kernel guy is gone for this week so it'll take a little while to upgrade | 10:47 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, sweet! | 10:49 |
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| tybollt | crashie: ? Oracle done something recently? | 11:03 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:12 |
| MohammadAG51 | Morning Jaffa | 11:13 |
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| Jaffa | tybollt: It's okay, Oracle are just destroying Sun's reputation; and surprising me cos I didn't think I thought that much of them. | 11:14 |
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| ieatlint | haha, yeah, i was about to ask what reputation | 11:15 |
| ieatlint | the usability of solaris, the efficiency of java | 11:16 |
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| ShadowJK | N900 dropped off at Nokia Care Point :-( | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | usb? | 11:30 |
| ShadowJK | no, cellmo | 11:30 |
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| ShadowJK | I think usb is going to last forever at this point | 11:30 |
| ShadowJK | well, or would, but fixing cellmo is probably going to be mainboard replacement and new usb port | 11:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | or a new simhole | 11:31 |
| MohammadAG51 | yes, i called it that | 11:31 |
| flux | my ear-speaker is somewhat flaky, but I suppose I want to fix it myself instead of waiting for eons to the phone back | 11:32 |
| ShadowJK | I say it'd probably last forever, because the force required to remove the plug is now 5% of original | 11:32 |
| flux | +get | 11:32 |
| flux | shadowjk, :) | 11:32 |
| ShadowJK | When it was new, I could have lifted a case of beer with that port before the connector unplugged | 11:32 |
| MohammadAG51 | lol | 11:32 |
| flux | I seriously suspect your usb-port has some issues nevertheles :) | 11:33 |
| ShadowJK | nah it's been fine :) | 11:33 |
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| MohammadAG51 | mine's dyslexic | 11:33 |
| MohammadAG51 | it sends data backwards | 11:33 |
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| ShadowJK | So I went to Nokia Online Shop, it said find local care point, Nokia Care website told me about this place I didn't know existed, and the name implied it was in a totally different city than what the address on the website was | 11:34 |
| ShadowJK | and Ovi Maps had some "issues" in getting me there.. | 11:34 |
| ShadowJK | Anyway, I wander in to this place and they have dishwashers and iphones and what not, and I ask if this is the place for Nokia Service | 11:34 |
| ShadowJK | the guy says "yeah, down the stairs, first door on your left" | 11:34 |
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| ShadowJK | I walk down the stairs, and the first door I see is the exit. My immediate reaction was that I just got told to piss off | 11:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | lol | 11:35 |
| FIQ|n900 | :p | 11:35 |
| ShadowJK | But there was a small door to the left, and in there sat a guy buried in pile of electronics crap, so I knew it was the right place :) | 11:35 |
| TermanaN900 | heh | 11:36 |
| TermanaN900 | I think you're confused, if you were told to piss off then you would know you found Nokia Care | 11:37 |
| TermanaN900 | kidding :p | 11:37 |
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| ShadowJK | true :) | 11:39 |
| ShadowJK | the guy mostly had piles of car stereos | 11:40 |
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| mece | ooooo--I'm such a nerd. My hairs stood up when I read that title.. http://conference2010.meego.com/session/porting-ti-omap%E2%84%A2-4-platform | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 11:43 |
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| ShadowJK | the unobtanium pandaboard | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | someone in #meego-arm got one last night | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | so not entirely | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:44 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, that's pretty sweet | 11:44 |
| mece | when was omap4 announced? | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | fairly long ago? | 11:45 |
| ShadowJK | couple of years? | 11:45 |
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| mece | what about the hardware? | 11:45 |
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| ShadowJK | Stskeeps, any idea of pricing? | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | unsure, i thought there was some presentation | 11:48 |
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| Stskeeps | s | 11:48 |
| TermanaN900 | Free | 11:48 |
| * MohammadAG51 holds off on getting a beagleboard | 11:49 | |
| TermanaN900 | If you sign up for their early program and get in | 11:49 |
| TermanaN900 | But i don't think the pandaboard is "for sale" per say yet | 11:49 |
| MohammadAG51 | what if my project fails? | 11:50 |
| ShadowJK | "We expect it to cost a little under $179 at distributors and will be publishing ordering information in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned!" | 11:51 |
| ShadowJK | cool :) | 11:51 |
| TermanaN900 | MohammadAG51, then your project was a failure good sir | 11:51 |
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| MohammadAG51 | that's the same price as the OMAP3 beagleboard xM :o | 11:52 |
| ShadowJK | that's weird | 11:53 |
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| Venemo | thp: congrats for your Hildon-Desktop mods, they're awesome | 11:53 |
| Venemo | thp: what I really would like to see in it though is a way to rearrange the windows in the task switcher | 11:54 |
| MohammadAG51 | didn't know thp was here lol | 11:54 |
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| jacktheripper | anyway to get an N900 out of a reboot loop without a reflash ? :S | 12:22 |
| jacktheripper | can I somehow mount rootfs on my PC and fix it ? | 12:22 |
| RobbieThe1st | Not unless you have BackupMenu installed. | 12:23 |
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| jacktheripper | I don't remember if I had that installed | 12:25 |
| jacktheripper | what would I do if I did ? | 12:25 |
| dRbiG | MohammadAG51: http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control - that's you work isn't it? | 12:25 |
| RobbieThe1st | well, open your keyboard and power it on | 12:26 |
| RobbieThe1st | If you see a menu, you will have some access. If not, you're - pardon the language - screwed | 12:26 |
| jpinx-eeepc | if yyou have ssh intalled it might let you login | 12:27 |
| jpinx-eeepc | I mean over the usb network | 12:27 |
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| RobbieThe1st | Maby | 12:27 |
| RobbieThe1st | But, he says its in a reboot loop | 12:28 |
| jpinx-eeepc | yea - sounds bad | 12:28 |
| mece | Stskeeps, I actually find the rotation to be quite smooth even without accelerated drivers | 12:28 |
| Robot101 | jacktheripper: you can try using the flasher to put it into r&d mode - there was one weird flashing bug which would cause it to reboot during bootup unless you boot it once in r&d mode then turn it off again | 12:28 |
| Robot101 | jacktheripper: what did you do to achieve a reboot loop? :) | 12:28 |
| jacktheripper | I messed with microb-engine :/ | 12:29 |
| jacktheripper | the browser didn't work | 12:29 |
| jacktheripper | I rebooted | 12:29 |
| jacktheripper | and that happened. It also can be because of rootfs having 0B of space. | 12:29 |
| jacktheripper | I booted the device using a meego rescue disk, it gave me a recovery terminal and I have stuff in /dev | 12:30 |
| jacktheripper | what's the name of rootfs ? | 12:30 |
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| RobbieThe1st | /dev/mtd5 | 12:31 |
| jacktheripper | don't have that :S | 12:31 |
| RobbieThe1st | what do you have? | 12:31 |
| RobbieThe1st | /dev/ubi0 ? | 12:31 |
| jacktheripper | mmcblk0, mmcblk0p*, mmcblk1, mmcblk1p* | 12:31 |
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| crashanddie | "Thousands of flushed condoms threaten to choke the Commonwealth Games village's drainage system, media reports said, in the latest problem to hit the venue from hidden snakes to outbreaks of dengue." | 12:32 |
| RobbieThe1st | Well, you can get your MyData and SD card | 12:32 |
| jacktheripper | *MyDocs | 12:32 |
| jacktheripper | I don't have an SD card | 12:33 |
| jacktheripper | and that's useless, I need microb-engine. Seems like I have to reflash :S | 12:33 |
| jacktheripper | and there's also no way to backup dpkg/info | 12:33 |
| jacktheripper | damn | 12:33 |
| RobbieThe1st | um | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: +1 | 12:34 |
| RobbieThe1st | do you have anything with ubi in there? | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: i wonder if athletics are really nothing more than an excuse to go around the world and fuck women in various countries.. | 12:35 |
| RobbieThe1st | Probably | 12:35 |
| jacktheripper | nope :S | 12:35 |
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| crashanddie | Stskeeps, want to know the worst thing? | 12:36 |
| jacktheripper | RobbieThe1st, sorry, need to go :S c ya | 12:36 |
| RobbieThe1st | Bye | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: always | 12:36 |
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| crashanddie | Stskeeps, this is what the President of the Commonwealth games federation said: "If that is happening, it shows that there is use of condoms and I think that is a very positive story. Athletes are being responsible" | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: oh dear | 12:36 |
| mece | Stskeeps, stupid question perhaps, but how do I connect to the 3g network? Appears it defaults to airplane(offline) mode. | 12:37 |
| mece | I have a sim without pin | 12:37 |
| crashanddie | Athletes are being responsible in using enough condoms to clog the sewage system? What kind of athletes/games are these? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | mece: hmm, what provider? Elisa? | 12:38 |
| mece | Stskeeps, sauna | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: maybe it's in good old greek style | 12:38 |
| mece | Stskeeps, uses elisa | 12:38 |
| crashanddie | mece, you don't have the 3g network in your internet connection list? | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | mece: interesting, second person with problem | 12:38 |
| RobbieThe1st | I do have one question for you guys: Do you know of any way - command line wise - to run a java application("java -jar .....") in "fullscreen" mode? It always seems to run with the top statusbar/etc visible. (Note: Using icedtea6 package) | 12:38 |
| mece | Stskeeps, could it be that sauna roams in elisas network? | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | mece: we didn't find a good reason for it yet - did you connect to wifi before trying phone stuff? | 12:38 |
| ShadowJK | Saunalahti is a virtual operator, it uses elisa's network | 12:39 |
| mece | Stskeeps, no I didn't. | 12:39 |
| ShadowJK | It's also a fully owned subsidiary of Elisa | 12:39 |
| mece | Stskeeps, it did see a bunch of wifi's tho. | 12:39 |
| ShadowJK | All phones think they're roaming when using saunalahti | 12:39 |
| `0660 | crashanddie, i thought there were pictures of overflowing sewage in athlete apartments even before the athletes arrived. I wonder if the officials are just trying to save their face by blaming the athletes. | 12:40 |
| mece | crashanddie, it's meego. | 12:40 |
| mece | Stskeeps, wifi works, it seems. | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | mece: it's a known bug .. search for sauna in bugs.meego.com | 12:41 |
| mece | ok thanks. | 12:41 |
| mece | getting zarro boogs. Did you find one? | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 12:43 |
| * Stskeeps gahs and can't find it.. | 12:44 | |
| mece | hehe | 12:44 |
| * Stskeeps searches mail | 12:44 | |
| Stskeeps | http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=7893 | 12:44 |
| povbot` | Bug 7893: Alarm clock does not wake me up when battery has died. | 12:44 |
| crashanddie | "Bug: device doesn't function when there is no power" | 12:44 |
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| crashanddie | "Bug: Television doesn't work when I remove antenna cable." | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | Actually, alarm clock woke me up once after battery had died. | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | True story | 12:45 |
| crashanddie | On the N900/Maemo? Nearly all the time | 12:45 |
| ShadowJK | I was extremely surprised, because it had shutdown due to hw cutoff | 12:46 |
| crashanddie | You can have the N900 wake you nearly 10-20 times after the BME has shutdown the phone for low battery. | 12:46 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, wontfix? wtf? | 12:47 |
| mece | Man I never find anything in the bug tracker | 12:49 |
| RobbieThe1st | Got a QT4/PyQT4 question - anyone know stuff about QT interfaces and the N900? | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | mece: it hides a bug, i think | 12:50 |
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| mece | Stskeeps, well I guess it's because quick search only searches open bugs and the only way to search all bugs is to painfully stake through the millions of options in advanced search. | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 12:54 |
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| ShadowJK | why is that wontfix anyway.. | 13:05 |
| mece | aw crap. I give up. I have absolutely no idea how to find bugs, so I can assume that every bug I report is a duplicate. | 13:10 |
| Hoxzer | why would you like to study a bug that's already been fixed? | 13:10 |
| mece | ShadowJK, Hmm it looks like the person who it was assigned to thought that the one who reported the bug was just confused or something. | 13:10 |
| mece | I don't really get it. | 13:11 |
| thp | Venemo: wouldn't rearranging conflict with either scrolling or selecting? | 13:12 |
| Venemo | thp: maybe it would conflict with scrolling | 13:13 |
| Venemo | thp: but there must be some way :) | 13:13 |
| mece | Scelt hello? | 13:13 |
| ShadowJK | long tap to active move? | 13:14 |
| thp | Venemo: well, you know how it's implemented in the launcher | 13:14 |
| thp | but that's not very practical for the switcher | 13:14 |
| thp | i'd rather have some more intelligent auto-sorting (i.e. group all browser windows, group all IM/SMS, ...) | 13:15 |
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| ShadowJK | But I always have vmstat in first window, battery status in seocnd, xchat in third, and then I don't care about the rest ;( | 13:15 |
| RST38h | thp: Btw, is your task switcher style configurable? | 13:15 |
| ShadowJK | unless I accidentally close one of them, then I have to close everything to get the "correct" order back :D | 13:16 |
| thp | RST38h: configurable at compile time atm | 13:16 |
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| RST38h | thp: Any plans to add it to that .ini file? =) | 13:17 |
| thp | RST38h: no :p | 13:17 |
| thp | just scratched an itch there.. but given recent interest in MohammadAG51's mods, maybe he will step up and create an umbrella project for all h-d mods | 13:18 |
| Venemo | thp: yeah, I already talked with him about it :) | 13:21 |
| mece | MohammadAG51, ping? | 13:21 |
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| Venemo | thp: anyways, I have another idea for rearranging | 13:22 |
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| Stskeeps | i vote for having bananas dancing around in a circle around the task windows | 13:23 |
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| bennypr0fane | Hey, i overclocked n900 to ideal profile (500-850) in Titan-powerkernel. Can anyone tell me how to UNDO this without reflashing the stock kernel (if that is possible)? | 13:25 |
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| mece | bennypr0fane: kernel-config limits 250 600? | 13:28 |
| mece | bennypr0fane, something like that. | 13:28 |
| bennypr0fane | is 250 the lower limit? | 13:28 |
| mece | bennypr0fane, read here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=731516&postcount=16 | 13:29 |
| bennypr0fane | i thought i'd have to use a low voltage-profile for that.... | 13:29 |
| mece | bennypr0fane, 250 is the default I think. I've never touched the stuff, so I don't know, but that's what I've come to understand. | 13:29 |
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| bennypr0fane | thank you | 13:31 |
| bennypr0fane | i'll try that | 13:31 |
| bennypr0fane | also, i think my phone always boots in r&d-mode or something | 13:32 |
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| bennypr0fane | when i power , the white nokia screen shows a phone-icon with a wrench and kernel info etc. are shown in green letters | 13:33 |
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| bennypr0fane | *power on | 13:33 |
| bennypr0fane | how can i make start normal mode again? | 13:33 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: Sounds like R&D mode | 13:34 |
| jarkkom | anyone remember what you had to do to get n900's attitude sensor unstuck? | 13:34 |
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| dsg | bennypr0fane: http://wiki.maemo.org/R&D_mode | 13:34 |
| bennypr0fane | dsg does that mean i need a linux pc to disable r&d mode? | 13:36 |
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| dsg | bennypr0fane: Well, the page says reflashing with the windows wizard will disable it. But I don't have any windows so I can't confirm. | 13:37 |
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| dsg | bennypr0fane: Did you get the phone like this from a nokia center? | 13:37 |
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| mece | bennypr0fane, there's flasher for windows | 13:38 |
| mece | bennypr0fane, download it from here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 13:38 |
| bennypr0fane | dsg yes i did. they performed update to pr 1.2 for me and returned it to me like this. i do have win xp but there's somehting wrong with my desktop's usb port. almost bricked my n900 when i tried to flash pr 1.2 myself. | 13:39 |
| bennypr0fane | so using the windows flasher is what got me there in the first place | 13:39 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: hm, it might be best to just bring it back to them to fix then. | 13:40 |
| bennypr0fane | i guess so | 13:40 |
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| mece | MohammadAG, hey! Question, can you add a repo and be offered updates from app manager with your fixes, or does one have to install them manually? | 13:41 |
| mece | talking about the hildon fixes and the media player | 13:41 |
| bennypr0fane | what I'm acutally concerned about is that every time i change the battery (i do that a lot cause i have 2), the device starts booting by itself. that didn't happen before service worked on it, so i'm guessing this behavior is due to r&d mode | 13:42 |
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| bennypr0fane | can anyone confirm that? | 13:42 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: I seem to recall similar behaviour with R&D mode, but I'm not sure. | 13:43 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: When the phone is off, and you just shortly press the power button, does it turn on? | 13:43 |
| bennypr0fane | maybe this is the lifeguard process or sth. | 13:43 |
| dsg | (usually you have to hold it for ~2 seconds) | 13:43 |
| dsg | That's a sure sign of R&D mode. | 13:43 |
| bennypr0fane | dsg yes it does - just short press | 13:43 |
| dsg | Ok, definately R&D mode. | 13:43 |
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| bennypr0fane | what does r&d mean anyway? | 13:44 |
| dsg | research & development | 13:44 |
| bennypr0fane | omg | 13:44 |
| dsg | Basically debugging/testing | 13:44 |
| bennypr0fane | :-D | 13:44 |
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| bennypr0fane | defintiely not for me | 13:44 |
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| bennypr0fane | but do you think the battery thing (just inserting battery will power on the device without pressing power button) is also due to r&d mode? | 13:45 |
| bennypr0fane | MohammadAG do you have an idea about this? | 13:46 |
| alterego | My device doesn't boot on battery insertion, well, unless it's plugged in to charge. | 13:47 |
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| bennypr0fane | mine didn't do so either before service gave it back to me set to r&d mode... | 13:49 |
| alterego | Well, take it off r&d mode then :P | 13:49 |
| Venemo | bennypr0fane: the best way to fix these issues seems to be a reflash, or try to take the device to a Nokia care center if you don't feel up to it | 13:49 |
| Venemo | ~flashing | 13:49 |
| infobot | rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 13:49 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: Yes, I'm 90% sure. | 13:49 |
| Venemo | bennypr0fane: read that article | 13:49 |
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| alterego | Flashing doesn't reset R&D flag afiar | 13:51 |
| bennypr0fane | i'd like to disable r&d myself, but it looks like i have to hook it up to a pc in order to do that, and mine's no good for that. so i guess it'll have to be the service center then | 13:52 |
| alterego | But you don't need to reflash to remove the r&d flag. regardless on buootit should be blatantly obvious if you're in r&d mode. | 13:52 |
| alterego | You can run the flasher on device. | 13:52 |
| bennypr0fane | i guess i'm pretty sure now that i am. i was hoping to avoid the service center 'cause i'm afraid they can tell i overclocked and make me pay for any further service | 13:53 |
| alterego | Not sure if it works with r&d though? So be careful. | 13:53 |
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| alterego | I use flasher on device for kernel flashing would be nice to know if it can change those kinds of things aswell | 13:54 |
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| bennypr0fane | at service, can they tell easily that i had it overclocked if i give it to them with factory settings in place? | 13:55 |
| alterego | No | 13:55 |
| alterego | There's no way to tell, and tbh I doubt they'd care. | 13:55 |
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| bennypr0fane | how do i flash on the device? | 13:56 |
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| bennypr0fane | i've only heard of a flasher that needs to be run from external computer | 13:57 |
| bennypr0fane | or at least it's not mentioned here? http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Updating_or_re-flashing_the_firmware_using_the_Flasher | 13:57 |
| dsg | bennypr0fane: Be careful. Not all advice you read on the internet is good advice :) | 13:58 |
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| dsg | Flashing rootfs from the device sounds much more risky than flashing kernel. | 13:59 |
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| bennypr0fane | dsg sure thing. i tend to trust what people in here advise me though ;-) | 13:59 |
| bennypr0fane | or shopouldn't i? | 13:59 |
| bennypr0fane | alterego so if you're absolutely positive there's no way to tell i had the device overclocked, i guess i'll just bring it in for service | 14:01 |
| alterego | bennypr0fane: there really isn't | 14:01 |
| bennypr0fane | dsg "Flashing rootfs from the device sounds much more risky than flashing kernel." well i don't know how to do it anyway... | 14:02 |
| alterego | Unless they take it apart and you SoC is melted :P | 14:02 |
| alterego | ~your | 14:02 |
| infobot | your is, like, the possessive of you, and is not "you're", which means "you are" | 14:02 |
| bennypr0fane | alterego not yet :-D | 14:02 |
| marmoute | why the hell my mediaplayer is not able t play flv | 14:06 |
| alterego | gutted | 14:07 |
| alterego | bbl | 14:07 |
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| MohammadAG | bennypr0fane, "RobbieThe1st"? | 14:09 |
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| mece | what's the dimensions of the omap3430 chip? | 14:22 |
| SpeedEvil | About 10mm*10mm IIRC | 14:23 |
| mece | SpeedEvil, thanks. | 14:24 |
| crashanddie | 12x12, 13x14, or 22x22 | 14:24 |
| crashanddie | (don't quote me on those, though) | 14:25 |
| mece | what is the one on the N900 then? | 14:25 |
| crashanddie | 12x12 methinks | 14:25 |
| mece | k. | 14:25 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 14:26 |
| timeless_xchat | y? | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG | what variants of router custom firmwares are there | 14:26 |
| MohammadAG | I know about OpenWRT and DD-WRT | 14:27 |
| timeless_xchat | what difference does it make? | 14:27 |
| superchode | MohammadAG: i know of tomato as well | 14:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | mece: digikey.com | 14:29 |
| SpeedEvil | mece: search omap3530 | 14:29 |
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| mece | SpeedEvil, I guess I could have just measured the one on the beagleboard. | 14:31 |
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| mece | heh looks like they had to squeeze a lot mor stuff on pandaboard than on beagleboard. | 14:34 |
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| bennypr0fane | MohammadAG who's RobbieThe1st | 14:36 |
| MohammadAG | nevermind | 14:37 |
| MohammadAG | thought you were the backupmenu dev | 14:37 |
| bennypr0fane | nope | 14:37 |
| bennypr0fane | definitely no kind of dev | 14:38 |
| bennypr0fane | :-( | 14:38 |
| pupnik_ | ty DocScrutinizer fun. | 14:38 |
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| pupnik_ | DocScrutinizer: underwater acoustic modems http://www.nortek-as.com/en/service/deployment-assesories/acoustic-modem | 14:41 |
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| andax | Is in maemo something like virtual console you can get on common linux with Ctrl + Alt + F[1-12]? (plain text console, not embedded in QT stuff or such) | 14:47 |
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| asj_ | andax: wtf | 14:48 |
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| sharpneli | pupnik_: There were stuff about basically using wlan underwater few years ago on one acoustic conference. | 14:48 |
| andax | asj_: in case someone is wondering why i need it: they surely perform faster, need less system resources et cetera | 14:49 |
| asj_ | andax: -ENOPARSE | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | pupnik_: looks like a relatively simple exercise to implement such underwater modem on N900 :-D | 14:49 |
| sharpneli | pupnik_: Ofcourse it was not at 2.4GHz, they took the symbol and sent it on lower bandwidth (and lower central frequency) in a longer duration. Worked quite well. | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | the headset connector should even work up to 30kHz I'd guess | 14:50 |
| asj_ | DocScrutinizer: I can test it the next time I go scuba diving...send me a waterproof n900 :) | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 14:50 |
| SpeedEvil | RF underwater works not terribly, if you have properly matched antenna. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 14:51 |
| pupnik_ | it seems the signal processing problems are similar underwater and over-the-air DocScrutinizer | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Low conductivity water works much better. | 14:51 |
| SpeedEvil | Sea is a problem. | 14:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | some 30m :-P | 14:51 |
| sharpneli | Underwater you get much more usable bandwidth if you just use acoustic waves. | 14:52 |
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| asj_ | whales have had good luck with acoustic ;) | 14:52 |
| lcuk | underwater keynote speeches? :D | 14:52 |
| sharpneli | And ofcourse the closer you are the more bandwidth you could use effectively. | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lo lcuk | 14:52 |
| pupnik_ | i'm more curious about handshaking via audio | 14:53 |
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| pupnik_ | two devices chirping to each other would be cute | 14:53 |
| sharpneli | And the signal processing problems are identical with acoustics underwater and RF :p | 14:53 |
| pupnik_ | makes sense sharpneli | 14:53 |
| sharpneli | pupnik_: For what purpose that would be useful considering that we have bluetooth? | 14:53 |
| andax | asj_: Usually in Linux (see Linux console), the first six virtual consoles provide a text terminal with a login prompt to a Unix shell. The graphical X Window System starts in the seventh virtual console. | 14:54 |
| pupnik_ | can't think of one sharpneli - maybe feedback for humans that the devices are handshaking | 14:54 |
| asj_ | andax: sure, on a desktop | 14:54 |
| sharpneli | Instead of the lovely "Pairing" icon on screen?-) | 14:54 |
| sharpneli | Maybe it would be a nice aprils fool joke. Small program that can send contact info etc via the audio to other devices. | 14:55 |
| pupnik_ | maybe i'm getting a mitm attack sharpneli :) | 14:55 |
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| andax | why not on maemo? would be surely more efficient if you can handle it | 14:55 |
| andax | :-) | 14:55 |
| alterego | sharpneli: would be nice to implement a dialup modem :P | 14:55 |
| andax | asj_:^ | 14:55 |
| asj_ | andax: because it's not a desktop and would be almost useless | 14:55 |
| RST38h | "Many Android users are finding their shiny new handsets almost impossible to use due to a plethora of issues needing ridiculous workarounds, from creating and deleting multiple cloud accounts to repeatedly hard resetting." | 14:56 |
| sharpneli | Heh. Howabout implementing the bluetooth standard over audio? :D | 14:56 |
| alterego | plugin a audio/mic cross over cable and relive the retro years. | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Hmmm... And I thought Maemo sucked and Android was stable? =) | 14:56 |
| andax | i dont think so, the x-terrminal takes much time to load and i would use pdksh instead of bash, which is also faster | 14:56 |
| jarkkom | you could probably implement FSK modulation and get few hundred bps out of that with speaker/mic | 14:56 |
| alterego | RST38h: not needed to flash my N900 since I had it, I flash for each update though. | 14:57 |
| alterego | So I'm pretty sure I've not flashed it since PR1.2 | 14:57 |
| sharpneli | jarkkom: QAM ftw. | 14:57 |
| andax | well, i miss the function keys... | 14:57 |
| sharpneli | Maybe 10KHz of usable bandwidth between two phones close by. | 14:57 |
| sharpneli | I think there's no reason to use anything else than QAM nowadays really. We have more than enough processing power for it. | 14:58 |
| Scelt | mece: waddup? | 14:58 |
| alterego | Could use the fm transmitter/reciever for data xfer? :) | 14:59 |
| andax | asj_: maybe it would be useless for you but not for me. (because of the mentioned reasons and some more) | 14:59 |
| sharpneli | Hmmm. That's possible. Except FM sucks. We'd still get just few tens of KHz of bandwidth. | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | a couple of hundred kilobits a second are probably plausible. | 15:01 |
| alterego | Use it all and do bonding? :) | 15:01 |
| Scelt | mece: yeah, tripzero seemed to have made some wrong conclusions. Maybe I should have capitalized the VIRTUAL OPERATOR to make it understood | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - for silliness. | 15:01 |
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| alterego | bluetooth + wifi + usb + fm rx/tx + audio | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | Camera + lcd | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | for data transfer | 15:01 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: Via FM transmitter? | 15:01 |
| alterego | SpeedEvil: nice, | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: yes | 15:01 |
| alterego | animated wd barcodes? :D | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: Assuming complex modulation. | 15:02 |
| alterego | 2d~ | 15:02 |
| SpeedEvil | alterego: yes | 15:02 |
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| pupnik_ | maybe android will start fracturing and sucking mainly because it's not got enough gnu/linux | 15:02 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: I'd assume that the fm transmitter just does exactly what it says. FM modulates the carrier with the input sound signal. | 15:02 |
| alterego | pupnik_: I don't think your average end user cares too much. | 15:02 |
| Scelt | mece: and I didn't know that airplane has nothing with airplane mode, which is very unclear | 15:02 |
| alterego | It'll suceed or fail on how good it works for average users. | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | http://dailyshite.com/2010/10/captain-picard-has-an-android-phone/ | 15:03 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: So the sound signal would be the limit. | 15:03 |
| alterego | That don't want an iPhone :D | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: irrelevant. | 15:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: You canmodulate a couple of hundred kilobits a second over a audio channel withthebandwidthof the FM transmitter. | 15:03 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: I dont really know the specs of the transmitter. Yeah you can modulate few hundred kbps in that bandwidth but is it possible with the current hardware? | 15:05 |
| sharpneli | E.g if it just eats the sound and does basic FM modulation it is not possible. | 15:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: Over an audio channel of the bandwidthand SNR of the FM channel. Themodulationis irrelevant. | 15:06 |
| * SpeedEvil plays with firefox 4. | 15:07 | |
| sharpneli | Yeah. Though data rate goes as logarithm of SNR (or linear with the dB) but linear with bandwith. :p | 15:07 |
| sharpneli | With luck the SNR is good. You've tested it? | 15:07 |
| andax | SpeedEvil: that reminds me on a idea to connect a softmodem directly to a DSL connection | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: no, it's a shitload of code. | 15:09 |
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| SpeedEvil | andax: A soft-modem that implements the DSL stck is quite possible in principle. | 15:09 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: Shitloads of code? Save test symbol as wav, send it to fm transmitter and record from other device. | 15:10 |
| sharpneli | Transfer to matlab or whatever fancies you and go wild. | 15:10 |
| andax | SpeedEvil: Yeah, i guess so and think it would be pretty cool, (cold reduce some wiring salad at home) but i never saw such implementation | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | shaIt's an uninteresting experiment. | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: | 15:11 |
| andax | cold -> could | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: The FM transmitter is specified to provide a clean audio link over xKHz. | 15:11 |
| sharpneli | It is yeah. But what did you meant with the "shitload of code"? | 15:11 |
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| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: A proper soft-modem to modulate at high bits/hz a digital signal, and to recover it at the other end is quite significant code. | 15:12 |
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| SpeedEvil | andax: It would probably not. You're looking at a specialised 'soundcard' - that will at best need USB2 and to be moving a _large_ amount of data continually. | 15:13 |
| pupnik_ | alterego: perhaps going with meego with a lot of gnu/linux will mean more long-term trust and adoption of the platform | 15:13 |
| sharpneli | Yeah it is. Especially if it needs to be efficient. However it is not relevant if we want to set upper bounds for the possible data rate. | 15:14 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: Can you e.g change the samplerate the FM radio eats? Or is it analog already when it goes to the transmitter? | 15:14 |
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| alterego | pupnik_: maybe, or not, as much as I don't like the architecture of android, it does have the sandboxing potential that vendors may like from a security perspective ... | 15:15 |
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| SpeedEvil | The datasheet of teh FM transmitter sets a SNR and a bandwidth. You then compute the maximum datarate based on this. You're not doinganything other than treating it as a pure analog channel. | 15:15 |
| alterego | Yet to see how Nokia's security system works.. | 15:15 |
| andax | I was regarding a t40 thinkpad with integrated softmodem, so no USB stuff would be needed. Then, with IP-forwarding, could be the wifi hot spot and home server | 15:15 |
| andax | SpeedEvil:^ | 15:15 |
| SpeedEvil | andax: In principle possible, it would mean considerable hardware inside. | 15:16 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: So it does not go trough the audio system? That's great to hear. | 15:16 |
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| sharpneli | I was afraid that it would be tied to the audio output. | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | andax: the 'easy' way would be to basically integrate a DSL modem, the hard way would be to integrate a DAC/ADC, and do it in software. This would bemaybe $10-$20 cheaper | 15:17 |
| SpeedEvil | But would probably not run on linux. | 15:17 |
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| andax | SpeedEvil: a softmodem is functioning essentially as a DAC/ADC, much like a sound card which handles pure PCM and analog signals from and to the telephone line | 15:21 |
| SpeedEvil | andax: yes. But a softmodem that is designed fro DSL use requires an ADC running around 500 times faster. | 15:22 |
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| jarkkom | doesn't linux include some softmodem support by default, at least for conexant chips? | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | Irrelevant. | 15:22 |
| SpeedEvil | A DSL stack in software for a sofrtmodem would be a really huge chunk of code. | 15:22 |
| pupnik_ | it's very simple to win the apple/android/phone war. make MeeGo the better android platform | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | The DSL specification is - IIRC - around a thoudand pages. | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: no, it's not. | 15:23 |
| pupnik_ | so you've got native MeeGo/maemo apps, and you run the other fluff in a vm | 15:23 |
| andax | SpeedEvil: 500 times faster... probably too fast for a soundcard i guess | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: The notion that the best product wins in a fmarketplace is completely broken. | 15:23 |
| pupnik_ | i know that | 15:23 |
| SpeedEvil | andax: much too fast, yes. | 15:23 |
| jarkkom | actual modulation isn't that complicated in DSL but complexity in ADSL comes from legacy stuff, as there's all the ATM transport | 15:23 |
| LjL | are you talking about using the FM transmitter as a soft-modem...? O.o | 15:23 |
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| SpeedEvil | jarkkom: The modulation is not in principle _that_ complex - OFDM/... | 15:24 |
| pupnik_ | SpeedEvil: that's why don't don't make a 'better OS' and expect to sell that. You make a better way for people to run their apps, and they'll flock to you. | 15:24 |
| alterego | pupnik_: it seems more about eyecandy and phone sex factor that makes android successful, not it being any good :) | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | jarkkom: The problem isthat implementing all of the seperate layers is a quite large amount of code. | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | From memory. | 15:24 |
| jarkkom | SpeedEvil, yeah I haven't dealth with ADSL/DSLAM in several years but I remember whole ATM thing being main headache as nobody actually had ATM networks anymore | 15:25 |
| alterego | Admittedly a lot of the Android phones seem to look the same to me now. | 15:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Initial FIR/IIR filter fromthe ADC/DAC. OFDM modulate/demodulate. ATM with FEC. then PPPOA or ... | 15:25 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's somethingthat is possible to do, but it would require special hardware and significant software. | 15:26 |
| pupnik_ | one thing this maemo experience teaches me is the nature of pioneering product classes (internet tablets) and market adoption | 15:26 |
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| * SpeedEvil points at the Apple Newton. | 15:27 | |
| pupnik_ | you've got a chance to be a hit as the innovator - maybe - if it's as simple as a frisbee or hula-hoop :) | 15:27 |
| sharpneli | OFDM == just do FFT and look at the taps ;p | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: I know the principle. | 15:28 |
| andax | the audio frequency range typically is 20–20000 Hz | 15:28 |
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| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: While the individual parts of it are perhaps managable bits of code, the aggregation is a fairly large bit. And DSL modem debugging hardware is rare and hideously expensive. | 15:29 |
| sharpneli | My view is extremely biased here because I know the low level stuff well but I really dont know right now how to implement the upper layers. So I'll take your word for it. | 15:29 |
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| sharpneli | One positive side is that one software based stack could work just as well with audio and with FM transmitter as the transfer path. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: Each individual bit is simple, but implementing all of thetwiddles, and spending ages puzzling over the ambigous meaning of bit 32 of the training word... | 15:31 |
| sharpneli | :D | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: unfortunately, not quite. | 15:31 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: FM is basically a clean channel. | 15:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | Real-world audio that goes throughthe air has many more artifacts. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Reflections, and frequency-dependant phase shifts and amplitude shifts. | 15:32 |
| sharpneli | Yeah. But they're all just noise and handled the same way if OFDM is used. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | As well as external noise. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | they aren't. | 15:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Frequency dependant phase shifts that alter over time are a pain with OFDM too. | 15:32 |
| sharpneli | What would produce that kind of effect? | 15:33 |
| crashanddie | OK WTF http://yourlogomakesmebarf.com/files/pegleg-paintball-logo.gif | 15:33 |
| crashanddie | Who the hell comes up with this shit? | 15:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: motion. | 15:33 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: reflections off nearby objects | 15:34 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: the angle of the sending/recieving phones changing. | 15:34 |
| sharpneli | Motion is correct, others are just the same as with RF | 15:34 |
| sharpneli | Multipath just means longer guard interval. | 15:35 |
| alterego | crashanddie: paintball for those in a wheelchair? | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | But you can completely neglect these if you are using the FM transmitter, as you are not dealing withthem. | 15:35 |
| sharpneli | Yeah it's true. | 15:35 |
| sharpneli | But that makes it boring :D | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | The FM transmitter is by definition a nice flat 'perfect' audio channel. | 15:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Have I linked http://www.renault-ze.com/news/twizy-competition-1982.html&gallery=#gallery-twizy here? | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Free car! | 15:36 |
| sharpneli | Yeah because the relative bandwith is so damn small | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Though it seems to be aimed at people who like musical theater. | 15:36 |
| alterego | I still like my idea, just use everything with a network stack on top and do bonding :) | 15:36 |
| SpeedEvil | The 'rental battery' concept is interesting. | 15:36 |
| sharpneli | SpeedEvil: However those effects are relevant only to the demodulation phase. After that the rest of the stack is identical. | 15:37 |
| sharpneli | And as you said, the rest of the stack is most likely the hardest part to do :p | 15:37 |
| alterego | Though it means implementing new network devices for fm tx+rx and audio in/out | 15:37 |
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| alterego | If you use the forward camera and screen you've got bidirectional communications too :) | 15:37 |
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| lcuk | lol SpeedEvil | 15:38 |
| lcuk | from the thumbnails I tohught 9/12 "Happy" was a meegomobile! | 15:39 |
| andax | maybe some forms of historic packet radio network as a starting point could reduce the efforts | 15:39 |
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| SpeedEvil | lcuk: naah - that's what happens when you reverse into a crowd of children. | 15:39 |
| sharpneli | Grab the stack of some radio amateur packet radio system and write new modulation/demodulation code. | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I point to debian chroot | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | and the factr that fldigi is already there | 15:40 |
| SpeedEvil | However- the range of FM is under that of bluetooth. | 15:41 |
| SpeedEvil | So there is almost certainly no point. | 15:41 |
| sharpneli | True. The audio path would be quite neat. | 15:41 |
| sharpneli | And then plug a small hydrophone to the device and you'll have underwater communication! | 15:42 |
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| andax | \o/ | 15:43 |
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| alterego | Is that what this conversation was about. | 15:44 |
| alterego | I think I'd prefer a text to morse conversion using the flash and camera to encode and decode. | 15:44 |
| sharpneli | Atleast it started with http://www.nortek-as.com/en/service/deployment-assesories/acoustic-modem this :D | 15:44 |
| alterego | Who wants to do it for me? :) | 15:44 |
| sharpneli | Heh. It's hard to know which one would be more annoying. Beeping and hissing or epilepsy inducing flashing :D | 15:45 |
| crashanddie | just look at the source code of the eeepc | 15:45 |
| crashanddie | or the olpc | 15:46 |
| crashanddie | they screeched to find one another | 15:46 |
| alterego | Well, flashing has better range in low noise conditions | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | I think it should be able to do a couple of hundred meters. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | With flash | 15:46 |
| alterego | Especially if you could setup the position and do tracking. | 15:46 |
| SpeedEvil | if the two phones are fixed | 15:46 |
| alterego | Yeah | 15:47 |
| alterego | Could use the red led as a carrier? :D | 15:47 |
| SpeedEvil | At night at least | 15:47 |
| pupnik_ | alterego: you could do spread specrtum data using YUV! | 15:47 |
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| andax | Why not communicating under water? the size of the keyboard gets more and more appealing for frogs as well :-) | 15:47 |
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| alterego | pupnik_: hah, good idea. | 15:48 |
| jarkkom | I guess you could just throw infrared filter over flash if it has enough power in those frequencies | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Flash outputs essentially no power at IR | 15:48 |
| alterego | jarkkom: no point, we've got an ir emitter | 15:48 |
| sharpneli | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:White_LED.png | 15:48 |
| Corsac | or just use the IR emitter? | 15:48 |
| SpeedEvil | there will be some tail at IR of the yellow pigment, but I would suspect it to be down at least 10^6 | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG | if I have 4 partitions on a device, say, sda1-4, would dd if=sda of=file backup all 4 partitions? | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | the IR LED is weak though | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: yes | 15:49 |
| alterego | Unfortunately you have to make sure the camera is down when you're firing. | 15:49 |
| MohammadAG | thanks | 15:49 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: you are aware trhat mmc are not block devices though? | 15:49 |
| alterego | flash is much easier | 15:49 |
| jarkkom | oh I forgot abour IR completely, with bluetooth being everywhere | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | There is no IR reciever. | 15:50 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, it's an external microSD card | 15:50 |
| sharpneli | Remove the IR filter from your camera | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | The cameras can - sort-of pick up IR, but not well. | 15:50 |
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| sharpneli | Actually CCD picks it up really well if the filter is removed. | 15:50 |
| sharpneli | But that's not exactly the most practical solution :p | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | yes. | 15:50 |
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| SpeedEvil | Also - neither of the cameras in the n900 are CCD. | 15:51 |
| andax | isnt it a IR sensor on the right of the camera shot button? | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | (but that point is irrelevant, as they have a similar spectral response) | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | andax: no | 15:51 |
| nomis | andax: it is a sender. | 15:51 |
| jarkkom | sharpneli, had one of those first sony cameras without IR filter at work, annoying to work with since conference area where it was also had IR-based headset system from simultaneous translation | 15:52 |
| sharpneli | Heh | 15:52 |
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| jarkkom | then sony put IR filters on every camera when some pervert found out that some clothes are quite transparent in IR frequencies | 15:53 |
| sharpneli | I removed the IR filter from one old logitech quickcam. Provided fun for approximately for ~5minutes :p | 15:53 |
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| sharpneli | Hmm. I think you just told me an excellent way to use it :D | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | sharpneli, best part of removing IR filter is that you can see through some materials | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | IR photography is cool | 15:54 |
| sharpneli | As a fun sidenote you can see why some black shirts are much hotter at summer than others. Some shirts are actually white at IR even though they're black on visible light. | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | for natural stuff - not pervy | 15:54 |
| SpeedEvil | near-IR | 15:54 |
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| sharpneli | ~1um wavelenght kicks ass. | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | SpeedEvil, this should work for these then right? | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ ls /dev/mmcblk0* | 15:55 |
| MohammadAG | /dev/mmcblk0 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /dev/mmcblk0p2 /dev/mmcblk0p3 /dev/mmcblk0p4 | 15:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: mmc are not a block device | 15:55 |
| SpeedEvil | MohammadAG: err | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | actually - ignore that, of coruse tehy are | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | I was thinking of mt | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | d | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | that's not the N900 | 15:56 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 15:56 |
| MohammadAG | k, ty :) | 15:56 |
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| SpeedEvil | The root devicehas allthe aprtitions, and the partition table. | 15:57 |
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| alterego | Ah, you've just reminded me | 16:00 |
| * alterego flashes a new meego image | 16:00 | |
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| sharpneli | Hmm. Meego works with n900 already? | 16:00 |
| maybeArgh | depends on your definition of "works" | 16:01 |
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| sharpneli | Useful development work can be done without jig with serial port? | 16:02 |
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| andax | BTW: HTML/Malicious.PDF.Gen VIRUS WARNING: #http://maemo4beginners.garage.maemo.org/maemo-quick-start-guide.pdf | 16:05 |
| andax | Is there a good online virus scanner for maemo users? ^ | 16:06 |
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| andax | (do not open the document) | 16:07 |
| SpeedEvil | sharpneli: no, you cant get to the serial port with no jig | 16:07 |
| sharpneli | In theory you could. But that was just my definition of the 'works'. No serial port console needed. | 16:08 |
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| alterego | andax: what do you expect that pdf to do to a Linux machine? | 16:09 |
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| lcuk | andax, which virus scanner identified it? | 16:09 |
| lcuk | alterego, not the point | 16:09 |
| lcuk | its pdf resource and lots of devs may be on windows | 16:09 |
| alterego | Sure I get that. | 16:09 |
| lcuk | i see its for m4 though which may limit | 16:09 |
| lcuk | but still if its a genuine detections it should be cleaned | 16:10 |
| lcuk | the virus is being picked up as generic heuristics though | 16:10 |
| andax | lcuk: scanned with AVIRA, according to description it tries to find ftp accounts | 16:10 |
| alterego | Maybe someone should work on porting clamav or something for keeping the fat areas clean ;) | 16:10 |
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| lcuk | alterego, this isnt a device problem | 16:11 |
| jarkkom | I submitted it to totalscan, let's see what various scanners say | 16:11 |
| alterego | lcuk: the question was :P | 16:11 |
| jarkkom | only AntiVir complains about it, probably heuristic gone wrong | 16:11 |
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| alterego | And maybe it is a good idea. | 16:11 |
| alterego | It'd certainly make some people happy I'd have thought. | 16:12 |
| crashanddie | <alterego> lcuk: the question was :P <-- why the hell is everyone talking like Yoda today? | 16:12 |
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| jarkkom | 1/43, so probably just AntiVir issue http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=35e94a64f7fc8036ef09ab3dd165c3036fc3b0bbb7b50fc4769023a0f2d62fe2-1286543369 | 16:12 |
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| lcuk | andax, jarkkom could you check http://maemo.org/development/documentation/maemo-quick-start-guide.pdf | 16:13 |
| lcuk | it appears to be the same file published | 16:13 |
| andax | its odd too that the maemo4beginners server does not have a start page | 16:14 |
| GAN900 | Is the new Fennec beta actually available? | 16:14 |
| jarkkom | virustotal is pretty good for checking that kind of stuff | 16:15 |
| andax | jarkkom: yes, good to know, thanks | 16:15 |
| jarkkom | they support all major antivirus software and bunch of more obscure ones | 16:15 |
| jarkkom | and you don't have to risk anything by downloading files yourself | 16:15 |
| lcuk | jarkkom, :) it is quite nice actually | 16:16 |
| jarkkom | lcuk, it's same file, identical hashes and same result, just antivir complaining | 16:16 |
| lcuk | thanks | 16:16 |
| jarkkom | http://www.virustotal.com/file-scan/report.html?id=35e94a64f7fc8036ef09ab3dd165c3036fc3b0bbb7b50fc4769023a0f2d62fe2-1286543369 | 16:16 |
| sharpneli | Or it's the best pdf virus ever. Constructed spesifically to give identical hash! | 16:17 |
| alterego | sharpneli: I'm sure the other AVs would have picked something up it it was the case :P | 16:18 |
| lcuk | sharpneli, it was just highlighting the same thing had been published ;) | 16:18 |
| lcuk | heuristic scanning can often bring up things like this though | 16:18 |
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| alterego | bbl | 16:19 |
| lcuk | speaking of viruses on linux: http://liqbase.net/OMG_VIRUS_ON_LINUX_Screenshot.png | 16:19 |
| sharpneli | Hey, are you going to let logic come into way of fear and despair?-) | 16:19 |
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| ieatlint | lcuk: the real joke is the bookmark to the TMZ | 16:20 |
| lcuk | ieatlint, \o I will tell tracy that | 16:20 |
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| ieatlint | :P | 16:20 |
| smhar | this is the first time I try the OVI maps, and I could not find a way to save a location of interest or to search for one, I used to be able to do so with OVI maps for N97. is it possible in N900? and how? | 16:21 |
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| ieatlint | also, that must be a lie, there are no women using linux | 16:21 |
| ieatlint | just like there are no women online | 16:21 |
| sharpneli | Considering the resolution that's a netbook. Quite girlish thing. | 16:21 |
| lcuk | sharpneli, its a lenovo x41 | 16:22 |
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| ieatlint | netbooks aren't really girlish... they're fucking useful | 16:22 |
| andax | description of HTML/Malicious.PDF.Gen : http://www.precisesecurity.com/trojan/htmlmaliciouspdfgen/ | 16:22 |
| Corsac | ieatlint: are you saying that girls are not fucking useful? | 16:22 |
| ieatlint | sometimes you need a lightweight laptop as a terminal that has a battery that will list 6+ hours | 16:22 |
| lcuk | haha the battery on that old couchboard lasts about 5 minutes | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | Corsac, don't know if this 'Useful' dude is being fucked, but I definitely know some girls who are fucking. | 16:23 |
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| ieatlint | Corsac: no, of course not, they just are useful in the kitchen instead | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | ugh | 16:23 |
| Corsac | crashanddie: right now? | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | why do people think sexism is funny? | 16:23 |
| crashanddie | Corsac, sure | 16:23 |
| ieatlint | mgedmin: because it is | 16:24 |
| Corsac | depends | 16:24 |
| sharpneli | For the same reason anything else is funny. Come on, people laugh at farts. | 16:24 |
| sharpneli | Even though farts are funny it's quite rude and unacceptable to do that in general at public. | 16:24 |
| mgedmin | ieatlint-- | 16:25 |
| ieatlint | my gf is a linux sysadmin and makes more sexist jokes than i do... so meh to your "omg no, sexist jokes are bad" | 16:25 |
| crashanddie | pics or it didn't happen | 16:25 |
| ieatlint | hah | 16:26 |
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| andax | smhar: it is not possible with ovi for n900. frankly speaking, ovi maps on n900 appears as the poorest maps application that i ever came across. | 16:28 |
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| Surfa | it only means that you haven't seen too many map applications ever | 16:28 |
| ieatlint | ovi maps on the n900 totally beats mapquest | 16:29 |
| ieatlint | which is the nicest thing one can say about it | 16:29 |
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| smhar | andax, ooh, that is really silly, to specially considering that the code is all there!! I can not think of a reason not to port it to N900!!! | 16:29 |
| ieatlint | what code? | 16:30 |
| andax | Surfa: mapquest... i remember, it was hot around 1998 | 16:30 |
| andax | or 1999 or so | 16:30 |
| smhar | ieatlint, the software code for the part of the software doing the saving and searching of POI | 16:31 |
| ieatlint | i somehow assumed that ovi was entirely closed source | 16:31 |
| smhar | so, is there a 'better' alternative maps software for N900 that does that? | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | sygic's good :P | 16:31 |
| toggles | sygic++ | 16:32 |
| ieatlint | http://www.google.com/maps/m is the mobile version of googe maps... there's a gps plugin for the browser | 16:32 |
| toggles | i like the way she stutters | 16:32 |
| andax | Surfa: at the moment i prefer to navigate without GPS, go to http://map.search.ch/ and save the printable file when i need to find something. | 16:32 |
| smhar | ieatlint, I know, I mean Nokia doing the porting, afterall, they the ones who published OVI maps for N900, and they own and have access to the code of OVI maps for N97 | 16:32 |
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| andax | Surfa: unfortunately this map is for switzerland only | 16:32 |
| andax | but i think its the best | 16:33 |
| ieatlint | sygic is something like $80 as i recall | 16:33 |
| andax | online map | 16:33 |
| smhar | ieatlint, I mean a map application that is an offline one, that does not depend on a live internet connection | 16:33 |
| ieatlint | smhar: there are some that will do caching of OSM or google methinks... not sure how well they work | 16:34 |
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| lcuk | smhar, paper maps | 16:34 |
| andax | smhar: i wish i had a offline map. It makes me crazy wqhen i see the road on the map with its name and cant find that road over the search function of Ovi | 16:34 |
| smhar | lcuk, yah, beside that I mean | 16:34 |
| ieatlint | smhar: in my experience, of the free mapping apps for the n900, mappero is the best | 16:35 |
| ieatlint | and i believe it supports caching | 16:35 |
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| ieatlint | http://www.mardy.it/mappero | 16:35 |
| jarkkom | for Meego they really need to have some kind of QMapView and then have it support whatever map backend phone manufacturer packages | 16:36 |
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| ieatlint | although the routing and POI search are online only methinks | 16:36 |
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| jarkkom | even with just single source, I have like 200MB of openstreetmap cache data on phone currently because each app does its caching in different way | 16:37 |
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| ieatlint | qt4.7 doesn't have a qmapview, and meego won't either | 16:38 |
| ieatlint | (well, meego 1.1) | 16:39 |
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| achipa | isn't there some thingy of that sort in QtM ? | 16:39 |
| ieatlint | there's gps stuff in qtmobility | 16:39 |
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| jarkkom | achipa, there has been something about it being in plans but I haven't seen anything concrete | 16:40 |
| ieatlint | but as i understand it, qtmobility has nothing based on qwidget... was supposed to be a wrapper for standardising detection and access of device-specific hardware | 16:40 |
| lolATmaemo | Do you think it will ever be possible to port maemo/meego to n8? | 16:40 |
| achipa | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/qgraphicsgeomap.html | 16:40 |
| lcuk | achipa, yes http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/location-overview.html | 16:40 |
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| * lcuk likes qtmobility :) | 16:41 | |
| ieatlint | oooh... i stand corrected | 16:41 |
| ieatlint | happily | 16:41 |
| lcuk | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.1.0-beta2/ | 16:41 |
| lolATmaemo | why is nokia even trying? they should just kill maemo/meego. | 16:41 |
| ieatlint | i do not like the new layout for qt docs :( | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | sigh | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | lolATmaemo: are you a troll? if so, please go and kill yourself slowly with a rusted, blunt knife | 16:42 |
| ieatlint | Stskeeps: of course he is | 16:42 |
| lolATmaemo | ouch... | 16:42 |
| jarkkom | I guess majority of developers probably would rather see symbian go | 16:42 |
| ieatlint | lolATmaemo/samosa: do a better job masking yourself | 16:43 |
| lcuk | lolATmaemo, what do you suggest to do? | 16:43 |
| ieatlint | the whole quit and then join 30s later with a new nick is not too convincing | 16:44 |
| Corsac | hmhm http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/m/beta | 16:44 |
| lolATmaemo | port it to n8 or abandon it. | 16:44 |
| Corsac | slow. | 16:44 |
| lcuk | lolATmaemo, how do you know meego won't run on the n8 ? | 16:45 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, has Linux ever really run on any Symbian device? | 16:45 |
| GAN900 | Besides: shit screen resolution | 16:46 |
| lcuk | GAN900, theres versions of linux o nthe iphone | 16:46 |
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| lcuk | and Mer runs on a pocket lighter | 16:46 |
| achipa | Stskeeps: is Serbia, that saying is with a spoon | 16:46 |
| jarkkom | hmm this looks pretty good actually, I need to see if I could convert my timetable app to mobility 1.1 http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2010/09/30/qt-mobility-1-1-0-beta-package/comment-page-1/ | 16:48 |
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| GAN900 | lcuk, "there're" and no, not really. | 16:48 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, not since the 3g. | 16:48 |
| lcuk | GAN900, sigh - get a sense of adventure | 16:49 |
| achipa | GAN900: does http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/ count ? :D | 16:49 |
| lcuk | jarkkom, :) yeah it does. | 16:49 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, point being, platform sec is getting better, not worse. | 16:49 |
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| lolATmaemo | lcuk: [06:40] <lolATmaemo> Do you think it will ever be possible to port maemo/meego to n8? <-- I dont know, but theres no version out? | 16:49 |
| lcuk | lolATmaemo, change the nick if you want a serious conversation | 16:50 |
| *** lolATmaemo is now known as Meegowillfail | 16:51 | |
| Meegowillfail | better? | 16:51 |
| kerio | sure | 16:52 |
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| achipa | who will countdown for the kick ? | 16:52 |
| pronto | 3? | 16:52 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 16:53 | |
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| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b *!*5ec2d20a@*.94.194.210.10 | 16:53 | |
| *** Meegowillfail was kicked by Stskeeps (no, you fail) | 16:53 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o Stskeeps | 16:53 | |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, +q works a lot better | 16:54 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, they can't change their nick anymore, and have to endure us ignoring them :0 | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | so does beer in the sun | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:54 |
| Corsac | +b without kick is the same | 16:55 |
| Corsac | plus they won't rejoin if they leave | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | Corsac, nope, +b still allows them to change nicknames | 16:55 |
| Corsac | are you sure? | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | pretty much | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: depends on impl | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | well, let's try | 16:55 |
| crashanddie | Stskeeps, ban me | 16:55 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Stskeeps | 16:56 | |
| *** Stskeeps sets mode: +b crashanddie!*@* | 16:56 | |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: I meant on your implem, obviously | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | man, that feels good.. | 16:56 |
| Corsac | :) | 16:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:56 |
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| Corsac | (changing nickname would me escaping the ban, so I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be allowed) | 16:56 |
| visz | cannot speak on channel, when banned | 16:57 |
| visz | atleast on some other ircd | 16:57 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 16:58 | |
| crashanddie | well | 16:58 |
| smhar | jarkkom, which timetable application? | 16:58 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b crashanddie*!*@* | 16:58 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 16:58 | |
| Stskeeps | crashanddie: worked? | 16:58 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o crashanddie | 16:59 | |
| crashanddie | glad Stskeeps took his own sweet time to keep me banned, when obviously I wasn't changing my nickname :P | 16:59 |
| crashanddie | but I still can't talk when deopped | 16:59 |
| *** crashanddie sets mode: -b crashanddie!*@* | 16:59 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o crashanddie | 16:59 | |
| crashanddie | should be better | 16:59 |
| jarkkom | smhar, Helsinki Area Transport provides online XML API for fetching optimal routes through public transport, so got API key from them and wrote client to use that + gps data | 16:59 |
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| smhar | jarkkom, interesting | 17:00 |
| crashanddie | Corsac, it makes sense you shouldn't be allowed to change your nickname when banned, but still... | 17:00 |
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| visz | jarkkom, is that app in a repository? | 17:00 |
| visz | i've seen a couple implementations of the same stuff, but they were never finished | 17:01 |
| jarkkom | no, I would have to keep it closed source because I can't share the API key and wider distribution would need agreement with them | 17:01 |
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| crashanddie | jarkkom, how long do you want to bet that API key is kept safe if a few of us start looking at it very closely | 17:02 |
| jarkkom | just run "strings" on binary :V | 17:02 |
| crashanddie | exactly my point | 17:02 |
| visz | jarkkom, ah, right. the other apps prolly did not use the api | 17:03 |
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| jarkkom | they also have full XML dump but N900 just doesn't have memory for that even if I serialized that to binary | 17:04 |
| jarkkom | I can give you binary though if any of you lives in helsinki area and want to test it promise not to abuse their API :) | 17:05 |
| visz | oh, great | 17:05 |
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| crashanddie | if they're going to promise that, and you really want them to test, then just give the soruce | 17:05 |
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| jarkkom | I was going to release it as GPL but I don't have time to deal with whatever subcontractor handles API access how to deal with open source projects | 17:07 |
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| lcuk | jarkkom, so how does closed source make it better? | 17:09 |
| jarkkom | it doesn't | 17:10 |
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| jarkkom | basically binary only releases in cases like that are just covering your ass, "evil hackers stole it" | 17:13 |
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| MohammadAG | is camera-ui the same size in all firmwares? (as shown by ls -l)? | 17:20 |
| smhar | why can not I install some OVI applications available for N900? why it is 'not available for you country'? | 17:20 |
| MohammadAG | or the MD5 sum of it | 17:20 |
| crashanddie | smhar, licensing issues | 17:20 |
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| andax | smhar: which country? | 17:22 |
| smhar | crashanddie, but my country is just a 'normal' country! it is even a USA Allie :-) | 17:22 |
| crashanddie | has nothing to do with the normality of your country | 17:22 |
| djszapi_ | if I write an own ioctl kernel function, can I compile a userspace application calling that method ? I would not like to install gcc on the target device, can it be solved somehow from scratchbox or with other bypass ? | 17:22 |
| djszapi_ | ( to be clear: to avoid the linker 'undefined reference...' error ) | 17:23 |
| crashanddie | it's just Damned Copyright © | 17:23 |
| smhar | andax, Bahrain, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahrain | 17:23 |
| smhar | crashanddie, but there must be a reason why certain country is included in the 'ban' | 17:24 |
| crashanddie | smhar, because of stupid reasons | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | smhar, if you have a problem, contact the copyright holder | 17:25 |
| smhar | ?!! | 17:25 |
| crashanddie | not #maemo | 17:25 |
| smhar | crashanddie, I know it is not a #maemo problem, I just think it is strange. this the second application that I can not install because of this issue | 17:26 |
| crashanddie | smhar, I'm still trying to understand why any person in their right mind would attempt to limit the amount of exposure an application/product/movie/tv-show/song can have based on the geographical location of a person. | 17:27 |
| * MohammadAG proves crashanddie's point | 17:29 | |
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| MohammadAG | http://www.youtube.com/bullettv (US only), http://www.youtube.com/bullettvsme (international), can't view both | 17:30 |
| crashanddie | either* | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds. <- wtf does that even mean | 17:30 |
| * MohammadAG goes back to MeeGo | 17:30 | |
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| SpeedEvil | soundtrack usually | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | What the hell "E: Handler silently failed" | 17:31 |
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| MohammadAG | GAN900, user/hidden, I have a modified apt for it | 17:31 |
| GAN900 | Ah, fennec | 17:31 |
| andax | smhar: i could imagine the software you tried to install contained a module with cryptography which possibly is not clear if it is legal or not in Bahrain. | 17:32 |
| MohammadAG | GAN900, http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/debfiles/apt_0.7.20.2maemo13.1_0m5latest_armel.deb | 17:32 |
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| crashanddie | andax, yeah, like Nokia cares about that | 17:32 |
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| andax | crashanddie: Maybe not Nokia but OECD: http://gilc.org/crypto/crypto-survey-99.html | 17:34 |
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| DrHalan | hey, my n900 freezes at the "nokia" screen on startup... i am kindof clueless... | 17:35 |
| crashanddie | andax, and that link tells us exactly diddly squat | 17:35 |
| lcuk | DrHalan, doesn't sound healthy. did you install things priot to this happening? | 17:36 |
| lcuk | and have you gotten yourself a backup | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | freezes for how long? | 17:36 |
| DrHalan | nah i just recharged it this night and it turned itself off and now i can't start it anomyre | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | I would expect it to boot, eventually, or reboot, eventually | 17:36 |
| MohammadAG | and which Nokia logo, the first one or the boot video? | 17:36 |
| DrHalan | it vibrates and shows a nokia-screen after some time it vibrates again... | 17:37 |
| crashanddie | mohammadAG: the one painted on the hardware :D | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | a reboot loop :( | 17:37 |
| MohammadAG | crashanddie, lol | 17:37 |
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| MohammadAG | DrHalan, a framebuffer kernel would help, if you can flash it | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | reflashing is the surest fix, but it'll restore everything to factory settings, losing any 3rd-party applications | 17:37 |
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| mgedmin | user data should be preserved | 17:38 |
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| mgedmin | (unless you also flash the eMMC image, which would wipe user data too) | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/framebuffer/zImage-fb-omap1.bin | 17:38 |
| smhar | I hope it is not a WSOD, I've had a couple of those with Nokia devices before. bad experience | 17:38 |
| DrHalan | mh guess ill do that | 17:38 |
| MohammadAG | no such thing as a WSOD | 17:39 |
| DrHalan | but maybe its a hardware issue? to me it seems possible that the power button broke.. | 17:39 |
| MohammadAG | DrHalan, flash the framebuffer kernel if you want to find the issue | 17:39 |
| smhar | mohammadAG, you mean on N900? | 17:39 |
| lcuk | DrHalan, pop out the battery | 17:39 |
| lcuk | put it back in and make sure it was charged? | 17:40 |
| lcuk | before trying anything drastic *shrug | 17:40 |
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| MohammadAG | yes | 17:40 |
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| DrHalan | the only way to "turn it on" is to put in the charger cable and then but the battery in and out again | 17:40 |
| smhar | mohammadAGgood news | 17:40 |
| MohammadAG | DrHalan, the hardware power button isn't tied to any hardware which shuts down the device (i.e like on a PC), the hardware button is handled b y software | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | by* | 17:42 |
| MohammadAG | in Maemo 5, that's mce | 17:42 |
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| andax | crashanddie: it says Bahrain: None can tell (nobody answered the phone call). Enough for an assumption that it is still the same today | 17:49 |
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| * ShadowJK wants nis n900 back | 17:50 | |
| ShadowJK | this thing is lie an abacus | 17:50 |
| ShadowJK | like | 17:50 |
| * MohammadAG sends ShadowJK his N900 | 17:50 | |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: cold turkey kicking in? | 17:51 |
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| DrHalan | mh if im flashing anyways...would you guys recommend meego ? i love bleeding edge stuff but maybe it still is too early | 17:56 |
| lcuk | meego does not replace the rootfs main maemo OS | 17:57 |
| lcuk | so for sure try meego but it will not solve your maemo issue | 17:57 |
| MohammadAG | DrHalan, too early, I'm running it right now | 17:58 |
| ShadowJK | stskeeps: yeah. ssh on 320x240 screen is making me want to brick myself | 17:58 |
| MohammadAG | right now, it is in no way a replacement OS | 17:59 |
| DrHalan | oa | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, Symbian device? | 17:59 |
| DrHalan | mh alright | 17:59 |
| DrHalan | damn there is no flasher-debian package for 64bit | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | --force-architecture | 17:59 |
| MohammadAG | Linux mohammad-i5laptop 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Sun Sep 19 20:32:27 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux | 18:00 |
| ShadowJK | mohammadAG: yes | 18:00 |
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| ShadowJK | as I said, it's like a stoneage abacus :-( | 18:01 |
| MohammadAG | ShadowJK, shoot yourself in the head, it hurts less | 18:01 |
| crashanddie | So, your assumption is that Nokia is limiting the download of software you don't know the type of based on the already shaky assumption that the software some random dude downloaded had anything to do with encryption, based on the already shaky assumption that Bahrain limits any encryption whatsoever, based on an even more sketchier website where they simply write "We don't know." | 18:02 |
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| crashanddie | andax, ^ ; do you see why I have a hard time accepting your argumentation? :P | 18:03 |
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| andax | yes, but no, but yes ;-) | 18:06 |
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| andax | "During our first survey, we were contacted by telephone by the Embassy of Bahrain in Washington, D.C. and informed that the agency in Manama, Bahrain that was responsible for regulating the use of cryptography was the Directorate of Islamic Affairs, a component of the Ministry of Justice and Islamic Affairs. A direct query to that agency went unanswered." <- i dont think that sounds too... | 18:07 |
| andax | ...sketchy to mention an assumption on top of their story | 18:07 |
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| GAN900 | New Fennec beta: As slow and useless as the last. | 18:25 |
| superchode | hrm. WinSCP is having a lot of trouble connecting/staying connected to the N900 for some reason. | 18:26 |
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| GAN900 | Is Fennec in MeeGo going to be this XUL mess or native? | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | meego 1.1 fennec is my nemesis, currently | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | 1.2 will hopefully be better. | 18:28 |
| superchode | what's the general concensus on best method of moving a lot of files to the N900? | 18:28 |
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| BCMM | superchode: from what? | 18:29 |
| superchode | a PC | 18:30 |
| BCMM | superchode: USB MSC is fastest | 18:30 |
| mgedmin | ssh connections are sometimes hampered by an access point implementing wifi power savings incorrectly | 18:30 |
| BCMM | for me, rsync is always substantially slower, even over USB networking with compression | 18:30 |
| mgedmin | a workaround is to fiddle in the n900 connection settings and reduce the power savings level, at the cost of some battery life | 18:31 |
| mgedmin | scp/rsync is slow (but convenient, and wireless) | 18:31 |
| BCMM | superchode: are these files, in total, a lot of data, or just a large number of small files? | 18:31 |
| superchode | yeah. was using scp in the past... it's slow, but was very reliable. not sure why i can't maintain a connection, at the moment | 18:31 |
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| mgedmin | usb isn't exactly screaming fast -- mmc write speed becomes the bottleneck, and then hildon-media-thumbnailer starts trying to burn your cpu out | 18:32 |
| superchode | drag and drop within win7 generally fails, at some point | 18:32 |
| mgedmin | for hours | 18:32 |
| GAN900 | Sheesh, does Fennec launch a tracker process on first boot or something. . . . | 18:32 |
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| mgedmin | well, maybe minutes | 18:32 |
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| BCMM | win7 generally fails, at some point | 18:32 |
| GAN900 | Locked the whole device up cold for a couple of minutes. | 18:32 |
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| BCMM | does anybody know why tracker isn't just run nice? | 18:32 |
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| lcuk | superchode, is it the connection itself thats varying wildly? ie underlying network transport issues | 18:32 |
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| lcuk | try just pinging | 18:33 |
| djszapi_ | how can I build 32 bit binary in scratchbox ? There is no general -m32 or --arch option. | 18:33 |
| Phong_ | hi guys, i'm very new to nokia sdk | 18:33 |
| BCMM | horrible hack, but i feel as if the n900 could be substantially improved with a script to renice a few of the resource hogs after boot | 18:33 |
| Phong_ | anyone know the steps to get it going? | 18:33 |
| superchode | ping from the phone or to the phone? | 18:33 |
| Phong_ | hello. | 18:34 |
| lcuk | BCMM, technically making tracker take longer just extends the pain | 18:34 |
| Phong_ | does anyone know where i can begin to start the sdk? | 18:34 |
| lcuk | mgedmin, yeah I filed bug against it when I noticed it | 18:34 |
| BCMM | lcuk: it wouldn't be anything like as bad niced though, would it? | 18:34 |
| Phong_ | BCMM, know what need to get nokia sdk ? | 18:35 |
| lcuk | try it | 18:35 |
| lcuk | on like for like tests | 18:35 |
| BCMM | Phong_: what OS are you on? | 18:35 |
| Phong_ | i'm very new...and interested on progrmming nokia app | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | I somehow doubt nicing would help | 18:35 |
| Phong_ | win xp | 18:35 |
| BCMM | lcuk: i wouldn't know how | 18:35 |
| BCMM | lcuk: also, are you saying i should, or retorically saying that you have and it's not nice | 18:35 |
| BCMM | ? | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | a lot of I/O makes a linux system slow | 18:35 |
| mgedmin | (and also wipes disk caches, with the same result) | 18:35 |
| BCMM | Phong_: i've never heard of that OS, ask someone else | 18:35 |
| Phong_ | is this a nokia dev chat? | 18:36 |
| Phong_ | is this a Nokia Development chat room? | 18:36 |
| BCMM | mgedmin: using storage with 0 seek time should substantially reduce the ability of a low-priority, high-IO process to interfere with other processes | 18:36 |
| lcuk | Phong_, yes, you should be able to create and build and test an app using the nokia qt sdk on your n900 | 18:37 |
| BCMM | Phong_: this isn't a chat room, it's an IRC channel | 18:37 |
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| Phong_ | qt, i dont have a phone yet...so i can't do anything? | 18:37 |
| lcuk | BCMM, no need to be a pedant | 18:37 |
| BCMM | Phong_: and in practise, all sorts of things get discussed here, including both user and development issues | 18:37 |
| lcuk | Phong_, there is a simulator in the sdk | 18:37 |
| lcuk | but you have to read the docs | 18:37 |
| BCMM | lcuk: well, i'm getting the impression he doesn't get IRC etiquette yet | 18:37 |
| Phong_ | which version of qt? | 18:37 |
| lcuk | does it matter? | 18:38 |
| Phong_ | i dont know. m asking u | 18:38 |
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| BCMM | "the SDK" refers to scratchbox, right? | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | what's a Nokia SDK anyway? | 18:38 |
| mgedmin | the Qt one? | 18:39 |
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| lcuk | Phong_, http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html | 18:39 |
| * mgedmin finds http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e920da1a-5b18-42df-82c3-907413e525fb/Nokia_Qt_SDK.html | 18:39 | |
| lcuk | :) | 18:39 |
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| * lcuk high 5s mgedmin | 18:39 | |
| BCMM | Phong_: for running your app without an n900, there is an environment called scratchbox which can sorta-emulate an n900 | 18:40 |
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| BCMM | Phong_: it runs on linux only, but i believe there is a vmware image or something | 18:40 |
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| Phong_ | lcuk is it the 923mb one? | 18:40 |
| lindi- | Phong_: no vmware involved afaik | 18:41 |
| lindi- | BCMM: scratchbox1 or 2? | 18:41 |
| lcuk | Phong_, IDK possibly | 18:41 |
| BCMM | lcuk, mgedmin: oh, i didn't know about that. how does that fit with scratchbox? is it an alternative? a replacement? | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | I think there were three SDKs for the N900 total: Maemo SDK (scratchbox), MADDE, and now the Nokia Qt SDK | 18:41 |
| mgedmin | or is MADDE just a beta version for the Qt SDK? | 18:41 |
| BCMM | and how does "the QT Simulator" work? | 18:41 |
| lcuk | I think MADDE is in the middle of the nokia qt sdk | 18:42 |
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| Phong_ | IDK | 18:42 |
| lcuk | BCMM, now if you we were following etiquette, should we tell you to RTFM | 18:42 |
| Phong_ | come on...guys , think of me as a noob | 18:42 |
| * mgedmin has never used MADDE _or_ the Qt SDK, so /me can't possibly help ... | 18:43 | |
| BCMM | lcuk: which? what i've found is fairly minimal, and somewhat contradictory | 18:43 |
| Phong_ | lcuk, i download the 923MB now | 18:43 |
| lcuk | Phong_, well try and install it and tell us, the nokia qt sdk is not the standard maemo development target | 18:43 |
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| BCMM | lcuk: btw, all i meant by the etiquette comment was that he'd highlighted me without any reason to think that i could help | 18:43 |
| lcuk | but if it produces good apps and follows the qt baseline then its a good alternative :) | 18:44 |
| Phong_ | i have not a clue much of what u're saying...just tell me what i need to program for nokia phone | 18:44 |
| Phong_ | i'm currently downloading the qt now...the 923mb one. | 18:44 |
| mgedmin | Phong_, which phone in particular? Are you targeting Symbian or Maemo? | 18:45 |
| lcuk | so, you are getting the Nokia Qt SDK? | 18:45 |
| MohammadAG | the Qt SDK is awesome | 18:45 |
| lcuk | any idea what SDK means? | 18:45 |
| Phong_ | what is the different maemo | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | different OSes | 18:45 |
| Phong_ | oh | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | the only Nokia phone with Maemo is the N900 | 18:45 |
| Phong_ | what about Nokia n8 | 18:45 |
| Phong_ | or nokia n97 | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | all other Nokia smartphones use Symbian (Series 60, to be more specific) | 18:45 |
| mgedmin | those are Symbian phones | 18:45 |
| Phong_ | ok then i want symbian | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | this channel is for Maemo | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | I know nothing about Symbian | 18:46 |
| Phong_ | i'm in wrong channel? | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | yes | 18:46 |
| Phong_ | wow | 18:46 |
| Phong_ | lol this is crazy for me. | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | yes, well, it's confusing | 18:46 |
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| Phong_ | whre can i find the right channel | 18:46 |
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| mgedmin | actually, Qt can be used to develop Symbian apps; it may be the Nokia Qt SDK works for both Maemo and Symbian | 18:46 |
| lcuk | the Nokia Qt SDK also has a symbian device target I believe? | 18:46 |
| mgedmin | I don't know, since I've never used it myself | 18:46 |
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| Phong_ | there is only 1 phone device that run maemo | 18:47 |
| Phong_ | ??? | 18:47 |
| Phong_ | hmm | 18:47 |
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| Phong_ | please tell me what is the right channel for symbian dev | 18:48 |
| mgedmin | oh, I lied | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | no, I didn't | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | 770, N800 and N810 weren't phones | 18:50 |
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| Phong_ | mgedmin, n8 is | 18:50 |
| lcuk | Phong_, what kind of app do you want to write? | 18:51 |
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| Phong_ | lcuk learning...not specific | 18:51 |
| Phong_ | lcuk, consider pre-101 symbian | 18:51 |
| Phong_ | ;) | 18:51 |
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| MohammadAG | <lcuk> the Nokia Qt SDK also has a symbian device target I believe? | 18:51 |
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| Phong_ | luck or symbian for dummy | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, but couldn't find it on the linux version of the SDK | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | n9 will be a meego phone, and meego is the successor to maemo | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | maemo will always be maemo | 18:52 |
| Phong_ | n9? | 18:52 |
| Phong_ | it's N8 | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | meego isn't really a successor, it's a new basebone | 18:52 |
| MohammadAG | no, N9, the next Maemo 6 device | 18:52 |
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| MohammadAG | Harmattan | 18:52 |
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| Phong_ | lcuk i have downloaded the qt at 82% completed. | 18:53 |
| Phong_ | luck, pretty big file | 18:53 |
| lcuk | awesome, irc progress bars | 18:53 |
| Phong_ | lcuk is that all i need? | 18:53 |
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| Phong_ | lcuk just the qt? | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | not enough ascii art! | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | [==================> ] 82% | 18:54 |
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| lcuk | I am sure its over 82% now | 18:54 |
| * lcuk hits f5 | 18:54 | |
| Phong_ | lol | 18:55 |
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| Phong_ | yeah it's 92now | 18:55 |
| Phong_ | lcuk is completed now.. let me do the installation... | 18:55 |
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| * mgedmin eagerly awaits ascii-arted screenshots pasted in this channel ... NOT | 18:56 | |
| Phong_ | lcuk is that all i need? the qt? | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | the Qt? | 18:57 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't sound geeky enough for #maemo :P | 18:58 |
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| Phong_ | mohammadAG funny? | 18:58 |
| andax | Ah, you brought me an idea mgedmin, is it possible to run the Ovi Maps from N810 on the N900? I could imagine it is better when using the device offline... | 18:58 |
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| mgedmin | meh, ovi maps sucks on both platforms | 18:58 |
| MohammadAG | Phong_, are you running on linux or windows | 18:58 |
| Phong_ | windows xp pro. | 18:59 |
| mgedmin | why not use maemo-mapper (which was renamed to Mappero), or Maep? | 18:59 |
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| MohammadAG | cause as I said above, I couldn't find an S60 emulator on linux.. k | 18:59 |
| andax | mgedmin: no good news :( | 18:59 |
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| andax | well, i will try mappero as soon as my package installer works again o_O | 19:00 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: How about MADDE? | 19:01 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: It should let you develop Qt apps for Symbian, no? | 19:02 |
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| * andax is exploring mappero now :-) | 19:21 | |
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| mgedmin | maep is faster/slicker; mappero is more featureful | 19:21 |
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| DrHalan | mh shouldn't my computer detect the n900 as a mobile storage or so? | 19:23 |
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| jacekowski | not straight away | 19:23 |
| jacekowski | you have to click on a phone | 19:23 |
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| mgedmin | when you plug in the usb cable, the n900 presents a menu: usb storage / nokia pc suite / charging only | 19:24 |
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| jacktheripper | is the vanilla PR1.2 kernel available for download somewhere ? (no thanks I don't want to download 180MB for a kernel :D) | 19:31 |
| MohammadAG | yes, sec | 19:31 |
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| MohammadAG | http://mohammadag.xceleo.org/public/maemo/kernels/zImage.bin | 19:32 |
| jacktheripper | thanks! | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | I should remove the .bin, server allows no extension files | 19:32 |
| MohammadAG | yw | 19:32 |
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| jacktheripper | do I need any other file (like an initrd for example) to boot directly with flasher without copying to rootfs ? | 19:33 |
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| DrHalan | mh | 19:34 |
| DrHalan | i managed to startup the n900 and saw the loading bar and after that a strange sound game (like a beep) and it turned of.. | 19:34 |
| SpeedEvil | DrHalan: it''s probably the 'emergency battery shutoff noise. | 19:35 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is wierd | 19:35 |
| DrHalan | but i have plugged in all the time before.. | 19:35 |
| DrHalan | maybe the charging is broken? :( | 19:35 |
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| DrHalan | but i have this yellow light that indicates charging | 19:35 |
| SpeedEvil | were you tethering? | 19:35 |
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| DrHalan | nah i never did that | 19:36 |
| DrHalan | but now i try to connect it to my computer maybe it works then... | 19:36 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flatbat | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | ~flatbattery | 19:37 |
| DrHalan | is the display supposed to show anything when charging? | 19:37 |
| pupnik_ | Nokia: 3000 mAh tablet battery!? << what? | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | no | 19:37 |
| SpeedEvil | not if it's very flat | 19:38 |
| SpeedEvil | ~help | 19:38 |
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| SpeedEvil | pupnik_: ? | 19:38 |
| pupnik_ | SpeedEvil: look how easly 3000 mAh fits | 19:39 |
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| MohammadAG | pupnik_, err... | 19:42 |
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| MohammadAG | if a 3000 mAh battery has the same size as a 1320 one, it's not 3000 | 19:42 |
| pupnik_ | fits within the form factor MohammadAG - 2x 1500mAh | 19:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | covers cam | 19:43 |
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| pupnik_ | you could get 4000 mAh if you didn't need space for wifi and camera | 19:43 |
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| jacekowski | you can get 60Ah if you are willing to carry 10kg battery with you | 19:45 |
| MohammadAG | bme will probably blow up | 19:46 |
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| mikhas | 60Ah ...hm ... | 19:46 |
| * SpeedEvil wants a step-charger. | 19:46 | |
| DrHalan | does the device have to be turned on to be flashed? seems like it only gets detected when running.. | 19:48 |
| MohammadAG | ~flashing | 19:49 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 19:49 |
| jacktheripper | can I access rootfs when the device is stuck in a reboot loop ? :S | 19:50 |
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| MohammadAG | you'll need a script, backupmenu would be one | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | to start an ssh server | 19:52 |
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| MohammadAG | or you could install a minimal backup OS with USB networking, then isntall | 19:52 |
| MohammadAG | install a custom kernel for that | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | meego would be one | 19:53 |
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| MohammadAG | though it's not exactly minimal | 19:53 |
| DrHalan | argh -.- | 19:53 |
| jacktheripper | I tried a minimal OS, http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Using_Rescue_Initrd | 19:53 |
| MohammadAG | 400MB download | 19:53 |
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| DrHalan | the usb logo doesn't appear so guess the battery isN#t charged | 19:53 |
| jacktheripper | it didn't expose rootfs. Just the eMMC | 19:54 |
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| MohammadAG | jacktheripper, | 19:54 |
| jacktheripper | and if I get MeeGo, wouldn't I have to flash rootfs ? :D | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | load ubifs module | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | then mount it | 19:54 |
| MohammadAG | jacktheripper, meego doesn't fit in 256MBs | 19:55 |
| jacktheripper | how's it installed on N900s then ? | 19:55 |
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| jacktheripper | and how do I load that module ? (USB recovery mode still doesn't give me rootfs, even at /) | 19:56 |
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| DrWilken | modprobe ubifs? | 19:57 |
| jacktheripper | oh on my PC. AFAIR I didn't find a device file related to rootfs | 19:57 |
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| DrHalan | does it make sense to flash my device to the newest firmwareß | 20:02 |
| DrHalan | or does the package manager take care of that? | 20:03 |
| DrWilken | You might as well flash it with the newest fw from the start. Why not? | 20:04 |
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| DrHalan | well iirc maemo has a package manager. does it update the system stuff too? | 20:06 |
| DrWilken | yes | 20:07 |
| DrHalan | so flashing wouldn't change anything | 20:07 |
| DrWilken | it would overwrite it | 20:08 |
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| RST38h | 32GB MicroSDHCs are now<$100 | 20:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Boooring. | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | I want a 32 exabyte card. | 20:13 |
| RST38h | Of course they are Class2, so beware | 20:13 |
| DrWilken | ... but still slow... :) | 20:13 |
| SpeedEvil | And a puppy. | 20:13 |
| Getkeys | http://www.anandtech.com/show/3967/the-tmobile-g2-preview/2 wtf is that plastic hinge thing | 20:13 |
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| James_Littler | hi, does anyone know how long developer account activation takes? I need to use the Autobuilder. Thanks | 20:31 |
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| jacktheripper | James_Littler, it took less than 24hrs for me. | 20:37 |
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| James_Littler | great, thanks | 20:40 |
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| Phong_ | is there such as qt plug in for eclipse? | 20:52 |
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| MohammadAG | hi RevdKathy | 20:58 |
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| RevdKathy | Hi MohammadAG! Hi all. :) | 20:59 |
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| andax | hi | 21:02 |
| divan | hi guys, i'm trying to make a video screencast on n900 and to achieve most optimal results, I use rawvideo ffmeg codec and convert it to mp4 on standalone computer. Everything seems to be great and fps is around 15frames, but I have one problem - the video after encoding to mpeg4 moves from the right to left - looks like some issues with vertical synchronization. | 21:02 |
| spinningcompass | Phong_: Yes. | 21:02 |
| spinningcompass | Phong_: http://qt.nokia.com/developer/eclipse-integration/ | 21:02 |
| divan | on the n900, I run such command: ffmpeg -f x11grab -vsync 0 -s 800x480 -r 15 -i :0.0 -vcodec rawvideo -sameq -y test.avi | 21:03 |
| divan | then copy test.avi over scp to my desktop and then run: ffmpeg -vcodec rawvideo -pix_fmt rgb565 -r 15 -s 800x480 -f rawvideo -i ./test.avi -r 15 -sameq -vcodec mpeg4 -y output.avi | 21:03 |
| divan | Any suggestions? Video just slowly moves to the left, like the 0 X-coordinate constantly descreasing in loop.. | 21:04 |
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| tybollt | why | 21:18 |
| tybollt | d jaaksi resing? | 21:18 |
| jacktheripper | it just can't be bootloop > reflash. There has to be an easier way to recovery :S | 21:19 |
| tybollt | hello? | 21:19 |
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| kerio | jacktheripper: backupmenu | 21:35 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, nobody knows. | 21:35 |
| tybollt | GAN900: well that is frankly a load of BS :) | 21:36 |
| tybollt | 'there are people in this very channel whom I am 110% certain knows _exactly_, granted, they are probably on NDA :) | 21:37 |
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| tybollt | but really - there must be some kind of speculation going on :) | 21:37 |
| * tybollt reading TMO for the first time in ... long time :) | 21:38 | |
| jacktheripper | kerio, and if I already bootlooped my device without even knowing there was a solution ? is there anything that can help me ? | 21:39 |
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| kerio | hmm | 21:39 |
| kerio | prayer? | 21:39 |
| jacktheripper | see ? that's what I'm talking about xD | 21:40 |
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| BCMM | jacktheripper: reflashing isn't a big deal | 21:40 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: you may only need to reflash the kernel | 21:40 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, I don't want my tons of apps removed | 21:40 |
| jacktheripper | hmm | 21:41 |
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| BCMM | jacktheripper: there are various types of reflash | 21:41 |
| BigWookie | Hi, I want to start developing with the NokiaQtSDK for Maemo and MADDY, is there a proper Documentation/Getting started Anywhere? | 21:41 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: it is possible to flash just the kernel | 21:41 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, yes I noticed | 21:41 |
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| BCMM | jacktheripper: well, that doesn't involve losing your apps | 21:42 |
| jacktheripper | I think the problem lies in the power kernel, before the loop, I had just removed the kernel (through apt-get (big mistake ?)) and rebooted. It still boots using it. | 21:42 |
| BCMM | anyone know how that works, btw? is there a little bit of dedicated memory just for the bootloader somewhere? | 21:42 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, OK, nobody HERE knows who can talk about it. | 21:43 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: well, power kernel does come with large warnings to not do that | 21:43 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: i thought you said it didn't boot? | 21:43 |
| tybollt | GAN900: thank you :) | 21:43 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, boot loop | 21:43 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: anyway, it seems like you have no kernel. flash a kernel to the device | 21:43 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, I have a kernel. R&D mode shows the kernel name. If I flash only the kernel image will it fix this ? | 21:44 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: i don't know | 21:44 |
| BCMM | i can't remember how R&D mode works | 21:44 |
| jacktheripper | not about that. | 21:44 |
| jacktheripper | R&D shows some info on the Nokia screen, it shows the kernel name. | 21:44 |
| jacktheripper | I was asking if flashing the kernel would replace the power kernel. | 21:44 |
| tybollt | GAN900: still when there | 21:45 |
| tybollt | GAN900: still when there's not even a good hint out there it smells fishy. Coverup etc... :-/ | 21:45 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, given my experience, I'm not sure what to make of it. | 21:45 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: flashing the kernel will cause you to use whatever kernel you flashed, if that's what you mean | 21:45 |
| GAN900 | Although it doesn't particularly bother me. | 21:46 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, good enough. Do I need the FIASCO image or there's some other 'smaller' solution ? | 21:46 |
| tybollt | gan: It does me | 21:46 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: i don't know | 21:46 |
| divan | did anyone try to grab video from the framebuffer with ffmpeg rawvideo demuxer? | 21:46 |
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| jacktheripper | BCMM, ok, thanks for the help | 21:46 |
| GAN900 | Jaaksi was never really very open source in his approach to open source. | 21:46 |
| tybollt | ugh ok? | 21:46 |
| tybollt | GAN900: though | 21:46 |
| GAN900 | So I wouldn't assume it had anything to do with the company shifting in a direction we might not like. | 21:46 |
| tybollt | I don't really care about that, more like why did he leave - what is about to happen that he is leaving because of ;) | 21:47 |
| tybollt | GAN900: uhuh | 21:47 |
| tybollt | GAN900: there rumours nokia's up for sale has been floating around for some time | 21:47 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: so does it boot in r&d mode or what? | 21:47 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, sure, he basically brought the use of open source technology to Nokia, but he was never one to put open source ideals into practice. | 21:47 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: i don't know how it works; is it possible that it displays the name of the kernel before trying to load it? | 21:48 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, I can't see it. | 21:48 |
| GAN900 | Not the arrogant Finns. | 21:48 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, I don't really know what R&D mode is. So far, it does nothing but displaying some extra information and disabling watchdogs (those reboot the device automatically if it didn't boot the 'official' way) | 21:48 |
| BCMM | in any case, it sounds like you need to flash a kernel | 21:49 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, I will. | 21:49 |
| tybollt | Well all finns are arrogant really... | 21:49 |
| BCMM | so is there a seperate bit of memory just for loading the kernel from or what? | 21:49 |
| GAN900 | tybollt, I think the biggest thing we're likely to see from his resignation will be the direction his replacement decides to push things in. | 21:50 |
| tybollt | will there be one? | 21:50 |
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| tybollt | praps they'll replace him w/ an intel exec and skew meego@nokia | 21:51 |
| tybollt | ' | 21:51 |
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| GAN900 | Hehe | 21:54 |
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| * RST38h is practically forcing himself not to unsubscribe from Mohammad's threads | 21:56 | |
| RST38h | Heavy, incredibly heavy lemmng infestation. And yes, their N900s are all broken and nothing works for them. | 21:56 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, the kernel and most of the filesystem is on rootfs. | 21:59 |
| BCMM | jacktheripper: so how does flashing the kernel work? | 21:59 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, copy/paste :D | 21:59 |
| jacktheripper | BCMM, it isn't really 'flashing'. Rootfs can be written to like any other filesystem. The kernel is just copied onto it | 22:00 |
| BCMM | ah | 22:00 |
| BCMM | so how does the boot process work? presumably there is some kind of custom bootloader? | 22:00 |
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| BigWookie | Umm I try to use a emulator for the N900 with madde (atm freemantle ) but at boot it says "no initfs" | 22:02 |
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| jacekowski | ignore that | 22:05 |
| jacekowski | that's normall | 22:05 |
| BigWookie | hmm i cant even ping the emulator | 22:06 |
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| jacekowski | because it's not booting probably | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | you should get something after that no initfs | 22:07 |
| jacekowski | but no initfs isn't the problem itself | 22:07 |
| BigWookie | :D i thought so, but I cant find andy documentation about setting it properly up | 22:07 |
| BigWookie | *any | 22:08 |
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| BigWookie | Could you probably tell me where to find one? :) | 22:11 |
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| GAN900 | Your N900 will really feel slim after using it in an OtterBox for a month or so. | 22:13 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:16 |
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| ShadowJK | sigh | 22:35 |
| ShadowJK | symbian... 3 bars battery left, 5 seconds later it decides battery is low, terminates all my apps and switches to some useless "energy saving" profile. I open energy profiler and battery is at 3.76V. wtf. | 22:36 |
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| GAN900 | Ha | 22:47 |
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| GAN900 | ShadowJK, we're all laughing at your suffering. | 22:47 |
| GAN900 | Wait, I mean sympathizing with your loss. | 22:48 |
| GAN900 | Yeah, that's the one. | 22:48 |
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| delt | Hello | 22:48 |
| delt | i can't flash my n810 because of the boot menu thing :( | 22:48 |
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| delt | trying to enable "rd" mode | 22:48 |
| ShadowJK | bootmenu runs after the flashing stuff.. | 22:49 |
| delt | ran maemo-flash --enable-rd-mode on the PC, says no suitable device, waiting..... | 22:49 |
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| delt | then turned on the n810 while connected to the usb port... went directly to the boot menu stuff | 22:50 |
| ShadowJK | did you hold in the button that brings up the program list? | 22:50 |
| delt | xterm on the pc was still saying "waiting..." (oh and loading the CPU to 100%) | 22:50 |
| delt | program list? | 22:50 |
| delt | you mean the list of running tasks while using maemo normally? | 22:51 |
| delt | <--- confused :? | 22:51 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 22:51 |
| ShadowJK | I think that was the one | 22:51 |
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| delt | oh, i installed a package that modifies the behaviour of the "2 squares overlapping" button... changes it to a kind of mac osx "tile up all open windows" kind of thing | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | well, packages don't run on boot | 22:52 |
| delt | exactly | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | so it shouldn't matter what you've installed | 22:52 |
| ShadowJK | But yeah, the 2 squares overlapping button | 22:53 |
| delt | but, thing is, i dont remember what that button does (in normal use) by default :D | 22:53 |
| delt | (the one with 2 squares overlapping in diagonal) | 22:53 |
| delt | so i think you may have meant that one when you said 15:52 < ShadowJK> did you hold in the button that brings up the program list? | 22:53 |
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| delt | oh and im so smart i dont even remember the name of that package :/ | 22:54 |
| ShadowJK | Yes I meant the two squares overlapping in diagnoal button | 22:55 |
| delt | ah ok, thanks =) trying that now. | 22:55 |
| ShadowJK | "hile holding the Home/Swap button (It's a house on the 770 and N800, and two overlapping rectangles on the N810), power on the device by holding the power button. You should see a Nokia logo in the middle of the screen, and a USB icon in the top right corner. " | 22:55 |
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| ShadowJK | hile=While | 22:56 |
| delt | actually i did try it the other day (while connected to usb) but without maemo-flasher "waiting" for it | 22:56 |
| delt | ok, lets try it out | 22:56 |
| delt | flasher v2.5.2 (Oct 21 2009) | 22:56 |
| delt | Suitable USB device not found, waiting. | 22:56 |
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| ShadowJK | Did you start flasher before plugging in N810 to USB? | 22:56 |
| delt | yeah... well at least before turning on the n810 | 22:57 |
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| ShadowJK | It's a long time since I flashed my N800 and N810, but I think I started flasher before plugging in USB even | 22:57 |
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| delt | right now i have the maemo-flasher saying that | 22:58 |
| delt | ok | 22:58 |
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| delt | unplug usb cable, replug... | 22:58 |
| delt | done | 22:58 |
| delt | which i dont really see how it should make a difference... lsusb doesnt even show the nokia when its turned off | 22:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 22:59 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 22:59 |
| delt | so iirc. if i hold down a button even before turning the device on, it will still detect that it's pressed down, right? | 23:00 |
| ShadowJK | yes | 23:00 |
| delt | nope... connected to usb, holding down two-squares and turn it on, still goes straight to the bootmenu thing :/ | 23:01 |
| ShadowJK | :/ | 23:01 |
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| delt | and since that button brings up the "network-over-usb" recovery mode in the bootmenu, it just goes straight to that | 23:01 |
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| delt | oh, other question... how wound one go about changing the delay before default selection is made, on bootmenu? | 23:02 |
| delt | is there something like liloconfig on pc....? | 23:03 |
| ShadowJK | It's really strange, I seem to remember that my N810 would display Nokia and USB icon if I pressed swap on boot, even if USB wasn't plugged in at all | 23:03 |
| delt | yeah me too.... seems the bootmenu thing killed all ways to get to that :/ | 23:04 |
| ShadowJK | GAN900, I feel like I'm Pitr: http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040303 (and next ones in the series) | 23:04 |
| delt | so when you're on that startup screen ie. white screen with "NOKIA" logo and blue USB icon in the top right... that's just firmware/hardware running right? no maemo kernel or anything? | 23:05 |
| delt | (at that point in the boot sequence)? | 23:05 |
| delt | ...so it's not at all dependant on whatever contents of the internal or external flash/sd/etc....? | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | right | 23:06 |
| luke-jr_ | Is there any harm in putting a thin computer between the battery and the case in N900? | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | Well, kernel might actually replace nokia logo with nokia logo too.. | 23:06 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, dunno, cellular on mine was dying from the slightest pressure on battery cover | 23:07 |
| delt | that would make things like, very confusing :/ and uselessly imho | 23:07 |
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| luke-jr_ | eg, a spare SIM card or 2 | 23:07 |
| GAN900 | ShadowJK, hehe. | 23:08 |
| * delt tries fiddling around with the bootmenu settings in "pb" / "pbeasy" ...... | 23:08 | |
| luke-jr_ | bah | 23:09 |
| luke-jr_ | "SIM card regiztration failed" | 23:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | N8x0 might go from NOLO straight to batery charging, when battery voltage is too low | 23:09 |
| delt | ah PenguinBait ...was trying to remember what PB stood for the other day ...knew it was someone's username =) | 23:11 |
| luke-jr_ | oh great | 23:11 |
| luke-jr_ | now SIM reg fails all the time | 23:11 |
| ShadowJK | whoah :) | 23:11 |
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| delt | hmm.... in pb "select default boot device" just lists the 256mb partition :/ | 23:15 |
| delt | <--- tries "cancel" then "scan for disk changes, update info".... | 23:15 |
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| delt | nope.. other tasks in "pb" can see the internal flash, but "select boot device" only lists /dev/mtdblock4 (size 256mb_used_blahblahblah) | 23:17 |
| delt | (let's try booting from the backup (256mb) and running pb from there.....) | 23:18 |
| delt | oh sorry thinking aloud here... uh i mean thinking atype hre | 23:19 |
| delt | here | 23:19 |
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| DocScrutinizer | delt: what is it you really want to do? | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | at this point I'd probably try remove the battery, keep flasher running on PC, disconnect usb, hold in swap key, insert usb, insert battery, press power key. Still holding swap | 23:20 |
| luke-jr_ | grumble | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | DocScrutinizer, i think he wants to flash | 23:20 |
| luke-jr_ | can "SIM card registration failed" mean anything other than "broken SIM"? | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2010-10-08 22:09:46] <DocScrutinizer> N8x0 might go from NOLO straight to batery charging, when battery voltage is too low | 23:20 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: 1. enable/disable "rd" mode, 2. change the delay "bootmenu" waits before loading default partition (from infinity to like, 0 or 1 second) | 23:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: yes, it may mean your carrier refused sim to book in | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | luke-jr, anything fun in dmesh? | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | dmesg | 23:21 |
| luke-jr_ | any way to tell if it's broken SIM or T-Mobile not liking me? | 23:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | try sim in other device | 23:22 |
| luke-jr_ | ShadowJK: when it there *anything* in dmesg? :P | 23:22 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: what other device? | 23:22 |
| ShadowJK | there was when my N900 started malfunctioning | 23:22 |
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| luke-jr_ | suppose I can boot Gentoo and try it there… | 23:23 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: btw, there's a package i installed -before- cloning my 256mb jffs2 to the internal 2gb partition, that changes the behaviour of the "home / "2 squares overlapping in diagonal" button ..... and im so smart i dont remember the name of that package :/ | 23:23 |
| delt | from maemo-extras (i THINK) | 23:23 |
| delt | anyway, that's for bonus points =) | 23:24 |
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| delt | ok, running "pb" from the 256mb jffs2 as root, now let's see...... | 23:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: you have a full battery? You unplugged N810 from charger so it's really off when powering it on? | 23:26 |
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| DocScrutinizer | delt: please read | 23:27 |
| delt | really off when powering it on? uh.... | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 23:27 |
| infobot | flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 23:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: "off" while charging doesn't really mean you can enter flashing mode by "powering up while holding home button" | 23:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | as "off" with charging actually is act_dead | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | it's never off if charger is connected | 23:28 |
| delt | weird thing is, im pretty sure i selected 1 second as the delay in "pb" .... but now it asks me to select partition for several minutes, then switches back off | 23:28 |
| ShadowJK | if it goes as far as bootmenu, it's too late for flasher | 23:29 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: turned off as in, press the "power" button (top ledge, in the middle) then select "turn device off"? | 23:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: PLEASE read | 23:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~flash | 23:30 |
| infobot | i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 23:30 |
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| ShadowJK | answering whether charger is connected or not should be easy enough :) | 23:31 |
| delt | reading.... (thanks for your concern!!) | 23:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: for flashing N8x0/770 the device MUST NOT be connected to power supply | 23:31 |
| delt | yeah, the docs mentioned that... and thinking about it, .... yeah when its connected to the charger, it's never really completely turned off.... | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | see? :-D | 23:32 |
| delt | because there has to be SOME intelligent programming checking the batterly level(s) otherwise it will shorten the battery's live | 23:32 |
| delt | s/live/life | 23:32 |
| delt | s/live/life/ | 23:32 |
| infobot | delt meant: s/life/life | 23:32 |
| delt | sry | 23:32 |
| delt | s/ live/ life/ | 23:32 |
| luke-jr_ | Error activating /n900/primarycontext8: org.ofono.Error.NotAttached: GPRS is not attached | 23:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 23:32 |
| luke-jr_ | any idea what that means? | 23:32 |
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| delt | um... again, just thinking alou....uh i mean atype =) | 23:33 |
| delt | yeah, if the device is turned off completely, and current is still going to the battery, then eventually it will lose its "zero" point and only hold smaller and smaller charges | 23:33 |
| delt | like an electric razor, if you keep it plugged all the time | 23:34 |
| ShadowJK | that's mostly bullshit :) | 23:35 |
| * delt ? | 23:35 | |
| ShadowJK | uf current goes into battery without stopping, battery explodes | 23:36 |
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| ShadowJK | if* | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-P | 23:36 |
| delt | (completely unrelated to the page above on wiki.maemo.org | 23:36 |
| delt | ) | 23:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | delt: 770/N8x0 has software controlled charging. It can not charge battery without a booted system | 23:37 |
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| ShadowJK | electric razor probably has a nimh battery which tolerates some small amount of overcharge. the charge circuitry probably never stops charging. the best nimh batteries can take a year or so of that kkind of charging | 23:37 |
| delt | um.... so you say the "bootmenu" thing runs AFTER actual kernel boot. Does it read a config file from the FS, or....? | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably, but how's that related to flashing? | 23:38 |
| delt | DocScrutinizer: so its like the razor thing..? i remember when i was a kid, in germany, my dad had an electric razor he always kept plugged to the wall socket | 23:38 |
| delt | worked fine that way, but when he unplugged it, he couldn't figure out why it slowed down and died after like 10 seconds | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: google for NiMH memory effect | 23:39 |
| nox- | or nicad if it was that long ago | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually NiCd | 23:39 |
| nox- | yeah | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nox-: yep | 23:39 |
| ShadowJK | nicad memory effect is mostly a myth | 23:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | nope | 23:40 |
| ShadowJK | but keeping it plugged in is a sure way to kill the batteries all without involving memory effect. | 23:40 |
| delt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_effect | 23:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | anyway, sw charging of N8x0 LiPo has no link whatsoever to memory effect or deterioration by overcharging of NiCd/NiMH | 23:41 |
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| delt | so, as i suspected this is why 16:39 < DocScrutinizer> delt: 770/N8x0 has software controlled charging. It can not charge battery without a booted system | 23:41 |
| delt | a simple fix would be to include a simple voltage checking circuit between the battery and charger input? | 23:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, basically | 23:42 |
| delt | (not an electronics expert, but first thought....) | 23:42 |
| ShadowJK | Once the battery is fully charged, it starts producing hydrogen. There's a mechanism in place to recombine it, but it can only handle so much. The battery slowly vents excess hydrogen and loses water. it dries up | 23:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and that's what N900 has | 23:42 |
| delt | and most mp3 players like ipod, sandisk etc etc.... but you can kill the battery if you just leave it charging on some weird configuration, like an old version of rockbox and some unknown charger thing | 23:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | delt: please make sure you have a fully charged battery, and no charger connected, when trying to flash | 23:44 |
| delt | [x] check | 23:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | remove full battery, start flasher, plug in USB, hold home button, power up N8x0 | 23:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | remove full battery, start flasher, plug in USB, insert battery, hold home button, power up N8x0 | 23:46 |
| delt | uh.... remove full battery as in, physically take it out of the n810? | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 23:46 |
| delt | aaahh ok i get it | 23:46 |
| delt | sorry, hadnt even read the rest of that line :3 | 23:46 |
| mariorz | hey guys, anyone have any linkage for modifying the menu bar in os2008? | 23:46 |
| delt | so, even if the screen is black, and no keys are responding... doesn't necessarily mean it is completely off? | 23:47 |
| mariorz | i know about the applications.menu file but doesnt seem to be exactly what im looking for | 23:47 |
| delt | "nokiiii, you're just pretending to sleep!!! i know you're awake!" | 23:48 |
| lolloo | why is the screen scrolling on N900 is sluggish alot! | 23:48 |
| nox- | swapping? | 23:48 |
| lolloo | 3D engine is bad | 23:48 |
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| delt | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the tip! but, question: just out of curiosity, what would be the difference between "plug in USB, insert battery" or the other way around? | 23:50 |
| delt | (if there is any) | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | no diff probably | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | device might accidentally boot up on battery insert | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | which isn't helpful | 23:51 |
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| delt | oh... and how does plugging the USB first prevent that? | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, probably a good idea to hold home button during plug in USB, insert battery, and power up | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | (prevent) it's supposed to start flashing when booting up to a waiting flasher connected to USB | 23:53 |
| delt | ah ok thanks =) so if i only have 2 hands? :D jk | 23:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | nota bene: if your battery is too low voltage (not completely charged) then NOLO may decide to ignore all flashing action and directly boot system to charge battery | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | so make sure your battery is fully charged | 23:55 |
| delt | uh ooops... ALMOST did it, but i released (and pressed back down) the "home" button during operation "put battery-cove back" :3 | 23:55 |
| delt | its like at 90% nwo | 23:55 |
| delt | s/nwo/now/ | 23:55 |
| infobot | delt meant: its like at 90% now | 23:55 |
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| delt | oh, second hand... no wait make that 3rd hand battery. my brother had this n810 for a bit less than a year, which he bought from someone in Ontario. Then i bought it from my brother. | 23:58 |
| luke-jr_ | (*#($*)# T-Mobile | 23:58 |
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