IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2010-10-01

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DocScrutinizer	I'm not joking	00:01
nox-	ok	00:01
DocScrutinizer	tmo is down, see URL above	00:01
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nox-	ok but will it be up again?	00:01
DocScrutinizer	whoknows	00:01
nox-	mm	00:01
DocScrutinizer	*.maemo.org downtimes aren't really any new or exciting though	00:02
nox-	heh ok	00:02
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nox-	`it's dead, jim' just sounded so... eternal :)	00:03
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yacc	Any recommendations for an ebook (epub) reader?	00:03
DocScrutinizer	hehehe	00:03
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nox-	yacc, i know of fbreader and dorian	00:03
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javispedro	oooh pandaboard.org	00:04
DocScrutinizer	fbreader one of the 10 most frequently used nouns in this chan	00:04
* javispedro wants		00:04
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DocScrutinizer	(just kidding, but anyway)	00:04
javispedro	Wonder if the final MSRP will be similar to that of the beagleboard	00:05
yacc	Wonder if running ntpd on a mobile is a good idea, ...	00:05
nox-	yeah i had to `fall back' to a python httpd hack + browser too, ebook conversion just didnt cut it	00:06
nox-	(for some html trees i have at least)	00:06
DocScrutinizer	ask RST38h about where to find the real statistics as it seems it's a fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail fail not to mention it here and have a laugh about it in #meego :-)	00:06
yacc	nox-, calibre seems quite capable when it comes to converting.	00:07
nox-	why ntpd when there is gps? or cant that be used for syncing the clock?	00:07
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: what? fbreader?	00:07
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ShadowJK	yacc: openntpd would be silly	00:07
DocScrutinizer	chan statistics	00:07
ShadowJK	and use lots of power on 3g	00:07
nox-	yacc, thats what i tried... :/	00:07
DocScrutinizer	yacc: actually it's not such a brilliant idea	00:08
yacc	nox-, and what was the problem?	00:08
yacc	DocScrutinizer: ntpd? Yeah data usage is irrelevant, but battery, ...	00:08
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DocScrutinizer	yacc: ntpd really isn't build for random connectivity loss	00:08
nox-	yacc, three probs i remember were thumbnail images w links to larger ones, fbreader knowing no tables and it being kinda slow too...	00:09
ShadowJK	I just use the network supplied time, it's "free"	00:09
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DocScrutinizer	yacc: I always suggest to have a line like "netdate && hwclock --systohc" somewhere in ifup and syblings	00:09
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nox-	is syncing the clock from gps too difficult?	00:11
javispedro	ntpd -q is also "usable", but really, on the n900 you even rdate is fine	00:11
yacc	DocScrutinizer: Gimme at least a couple of days to get used to doing stuff like that on my new mobile, I've been used to Android the last 18 months or so, where the userland is very un-Linux-ish to say the least.	00:12
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yacc	ShadowJK, how to use the network provided time?	00:12
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javispedro	there's an option for that in clock settings	00:13
DocScrutinizer	yacc: s/netdate/ntpd -q/	00:13
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ShadowJK	it reset to off for me occasionally	00:14
DocScrutinizer	nox-: GPS needs connectivity for a decent TTFF. So where's the advantage over ntpdate alike approach?	00:14
DocScrutinizer	yacc: network as in GPS carrier?	00:14
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satmd	ntpd > ntpdate	00:14
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DocScrutinizer	[2010-09-30 23:13:23] <DocScrutinizer> yacc: s/netdate/ntpd -q/	00:15
nox-	DocScrutinizer, well for ppl that pay per kb, or when there is no notwork	00:15
nox-	if you have wifi its ok ofc :)	00:15
DocScrutinizer	when there's no network, you'll have to wait 15min for first fix from GPS	00:15
satmd	ntpd doesn't make much traffic, and if you're concerned you can change the packet interval	00:15
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yacc	nox-, the N900 is probably not the correct device for people that pay per KB. (Well philosophically I do pay per KB, but it's 4€ per GB ;) )	00:16
satmd	(default: start at 64 seconds, if time is stable, it'll go up to 1024 secs+)	00:16
javispedro	yacc: hey, all I get is 1.5€ per 10MiB. Damn third world country (comms wise).	00:16
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DocScrutinizer	nox-: don't listen :-D Just use ntpd -q && hwclock --systohc in ifup somewhere	00:17
nox-	heh ok	00:17
yacc	javispedro, well, what shall I say, telecommunication wise the America is not that advanced, ...	00:18
javispedro	tmo is back. hide the beer!	00:18
DocScrutinizer	satmd: the real question though is what it does when connectivity is lost	00:18
satmd	it'll fall back to 64 secs iirc	00:18
satmd	unless you use the iburst/burst options, that is	00:18
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nox-	also ntp is very susceptible to jitter which id suspect you get a lot on mobile notworks...	00:19
lindi-	i just got gps time in 20 seconds from cold start with freerunner in a bus. i repeated the experiment twice	00:19
DocScrutinizer	ntpd really isn't meant for devices with sporadic internet connectivity	00:19
nox-	exactly	00:19
DocScrutinizer	lindi-: we're not in #om here	00:19
DocScrutinizer	so TTFF of FR is largely irrelevant	00:20
lindi-	i thought you were talking about gps in general sorry	00:20
ShadowJK	jitter is absolutely horrible	00:21
ShadowJK	10 secs or so :)	00:21
nox-	:P	00:21
nox-	useless for ntp	00:21
luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: GPS doesn't need a fix for the time	00:21
nox-	oooh...	00:21
luke-jr_	GPS time is available from the second of the first satellite identified	00:22
DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: that's correct, but location lib seems doesn't offer any time from GPS until fix accquired	00:22
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luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: that's a shortcoming of liblocation then	00:22
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:22
luke-jr_	use my code :P	00:22
DocScrutinizer	sure	00:22
nox-	you fixed it? :)	00:22
luke-jr_	maybe have liblocation up just to trigger N900 GPS startup	00:22
luke-jr_	nox-: no	00:23
luke-jr_	but NMEA issues have no relevance to extracting a time	00:23
DocScrutinizer	also take my rant about liblocation with a grain of salt - not verified	00:23
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javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I agree with your observation	00:23
javispedro	it won't send reports until gps fix	00:23
DocScrutinizer	k :-D	00:24
yacc	So what's the normal way to get media on the device? Connect via USB and select MassMediaStorage?	00:24
`0660	a time from one satellite is worthless. without gps fix you have no idea how long the signal has been flying around before it reached you :)	00:24
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pupnik	"Orange is the anti-angst! It's the least depressing color there is! No one can stay upset in the face of orange!" Comment on N8 colors..	00:24
luke-jr_	yacc: scp	00:24
nox-	yacc, thats probably the fastest if you talk transfer speed	00:24
luke-jr_	`0660: never more than a few seconds I'm sure	00:24
ShadowJK	I get a time right away with location-test-ui, but dunno if thagt's system or gps time	00:25
yacc	`0660 let's say that it's probably exact enough for most people, in the 0.1s range I'd guess.	00:25
* nox- get >10 MB/s over umass and only 1.5 or so via wifi scp		00:25
luke-jr_	nox-: what's the rush?	00:25
luke-jr_	trackerd is going to kill you the faster you move data anyway	00:25
luke-jr_	:P	00:25
nox-	haha yeah i guess...	00:26
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: I'm quite sure that's system time	00:26
nox-	but at least umass was usueful getting the 10 G+ wikipedia dumps on there...	00:26
javispedro	ShadowJK: while doing my liblocation->garmin pvt bridge I found out that pre-gps fix reports (when you have cell enabled) did not have the "time is valid" bit set	00:26
luke-jr_	Wikipedia is crap	00:26
luke-jr_	☺	00:26
yacc	nox-, luke-jr: any docs about the paths to be used? I've already installed openssh (c+s), ...	00:27
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ShadowJK	javispedro, oh I chose GNSS	00:27
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luke-jr_	yacc: it's just a computer. copy files like you normally would.	00:27
luke-jr_	scp file machineB:	00:27
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DocScrutinizer	luke-jr_: nox-: nope, trackerd won't kick in until ass rage mode finished	00:27
DocScrutinizer	umount ~MyDocs, you know :-D	00:27
nox-	yacc, ~/MyDocs/.music (iirc)	00:27
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luke-jr_	DocScrutinizer: no umount needed for scp	00:28
yacc	~ being ~user?	00:28
DocScrutinizer	for scp yes	00:28
nox-	yep	00:28
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:28
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DocScrutinizer	it's a shell shortcut	00:29
DocScrutinizer	for $HOME	00:29
DocScrutinizer	which usually is /home/user/ on N900	00:30
DocScrutinizer	if you're root you can use ~user/MyDocs	00:30
yacc	DocScrutinizer just wanted to know which username to use, ..., id in the Terminal suggested the very individual "user" ;)	00:30
DocScrutinizer	which means "user's $HOME"	00:31
* satmd thinks he remembers something about that being a feature not all busybox builds have enabled :p		00:31
DocScrutinizer	yep	00:31
DocScrutinizer	I guess I remember N900/maemo messybox has, though	00:32
nox-	wtf tmo register only has VB RegSecure instead of images...	00:32
yacc	Any way to see the current power consumation of the device?	00:33
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DocScrutinizer	yup, confirmed. N900 messybox knows ~user	00:35
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nox-	ah it needs cookies...	00:36
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GAN900	I wish Ovi would stop asking me to have it sign in automatically.	00:36
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demute	How can I disable my n900 to do apt-get update automatically?	00:39
Appiah	umm	00:39
Appiah	did not know that could be enabled..	00:39
javispedro	on my device, liblocation: with no gps fix, cellmo disabled, it will send an initial report with time valid bit unset	00:40
javispedro	when it gets a fix, it will report time	00:40
javispedro	when it _loses_ the fix, it sends a few reports with valid time bit set _but_ time field contains last fix time	00:40
demute	Appiah: well in a certain time interval a program called apt-worker is starting to run if I have internet connection...	00:40
Appiah	oh wait	00:41
Appiah	apt-get update , I read apt-get upgrade	00:41
javispedro	(much like NMEA's time of last fix field would do)	00:41
Appiah	nevermind me!	00:41
demute	:)	00:41
Appiah	I should go to sleep now...	00:41
javispedro	so: liblocation time field is unrealiable unless there's a fix.	00:42
demute	yeah, me too. Sleep -f ?	00:42
DocScrutinizer	demute: see wiki 'maemo customization'	00:42
demute	DocScrutinizer: thanks	00:42
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MohammadAG	GAN900, disable the MicroB plugin	00:43
DocScrutinizer	:-D	00:44
DocScrutinizer	GAN900: you're visiting OVI via microB? I just can't believe it X-P	00:44
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demute	DocScrutinizer: it appears that I have followed that guide before and changed my update interval to 14 400 000 seconds, and since that rebooted and stuff, no change	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	hmm	00:47
DocScrutinizer	wrong number format? wrong syntax so cmd failed? invalid number (>maxint)?	00:47
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DocScrutinizer	maybe start with 604800 - which happens to mean once per week?	00:49
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yacc	Just out of curiosity, can the N900 handle a partitioned SD (one partition ext2, one vfat)?	00:52
DocScrutinizer	demute: also check your system time. Of course a huge jump may trigger an update (like when your hwclock says you're at 1970-01-01, on boot, and later the correct date gets set)	00:52
DocScrutinizer	yacc: yes	00:52
satmd	hm	00:52
satmd	that happens?	00:52
DocScrutinizer	VFAT even still is automounted - at least when it's the first partition	00:53
demute	DocScrutinizer: on that page it says that it must be lower than 2^31, but of course, they could mean 2^15 ;) I can give it a try...	00:53
satmd	2^31 would mean it is a signed int	00:54
satmd	that would not make much sense	00:54
satmd	unless -1 means disabled	00:54
satmd	does it?	00:54
javispedro	it's gconf.	00:54
* DocScrutinizer51 waves - boozetime		00:55
yacc	DocScrutinizer: lol, okay, the N900 is a tiny ARM based Linux box. So I guess it can handle almost anything that is within it's hardware resources as long as I'm willing to type commandlines on tiny keyboard ;)	00:55
* satmd LOVES that line :D		00:55
luke-jr_	yacc: not quite	00:55
yacc	luke-jr?	00:55
luke-jr_	yacc: various hardwares require blobs and have confidential specs	00:56
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luke-jr_	so you can't use those to their full potential	00:56
satmd	true, but isn't that exactly "within hardware ressources"?	00:56
luke-jr_	no	00:56
satmd	mhm	00:56
yacc	luke-jr_, Let me guess, no host-mode WLAN, so the WLAN tethering is as usually ad-hoc mode only?	00:56
luke-jr_	…	00:57
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javispedro	no breaking gsm towers!	00:57
luke-jr_	yacc: that's not one of the limittions	00:57
luke-jr_	javispedro: exactly :/	00:57
javispedro	=)	00:57
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luke-jr_	you also can't force 3G or 2G only to avoid an interruption in a VoIP call	00:57
yacc	satmd, kind of, philosophically sometimes it's hard to draw the line where the hardware/software line is.	00:57
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luke-jr_	thoguh the hardware is in theory capable of it	00:58
delt	this is weird, i can't ping the tablet even though it's connected to the network, and internet access works fine...	00:58
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yacc	luke-jr: so the N900 can play a WLAN hostap? Cool.	00:58
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luke-jr_	delt: N900 by default doesn't reply to ICMP ECHO	00:58
ShadowJK	you can forse wcdma/hsdpa	00:58
delt	n810 here.... same?	00:58
dsg	delt: It works if you start a ping on the tablet first. It's some powersaving I think	00:58
luke-jr_	yacc: the hardware can. the specs are available. you just need to write the driver for it	00:58
ShadowJK	but you cant force just wcdma :/	00:58
ShadowJK	or just hsdpa	00:58
luke-jr_	delt: not sure	00:58
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luke-jr_	ShadowJK: exactly	00:59
nox-	yacc, mobilehotspot	00:59
javispedro	luke-jr_: huh? you mean pings on wan interface? it does reply icmp echo on wlan interface here?	00:59
luke-jr_	dunno	00:59
luke-jr_	just recall reading that in an if-up script	00:59
javispedro	might be wan interface, where it usually makes no sense either way	00:59
javispedro	they're heavily natted usually	01:00
* ShadowJK has un-natted :D		01:00
delt	ok, after running sudo ping <here> from the tablet, now it responds to ping =)	01:00
ds3	gnats!!!!!!!	01:00
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ShadowJK	my n900 starts getting hot when someone tries bruteforce ssh	01:00
luke-jr_	lol	01:00
delt	dsg: does this last until reboot, reconnect, specific delay, ...?	01:00
javispedro	delt: so, you just saw Wifi Power Saving in action	01:00
dsg	delt: Until the powersaving kicks in again	01:01
delt	javispedro: it would seem so =)	01:01
luke-jr_	someone needs to specify a standard for firewall control	01:01
delt	ah got it	01:01
javispedro	delt: your router is broken	01:01
javispedro	er..	01:01
javispedro	s/router/ap/	01:01
luke-jr_	so when you set port 22 to DROP, it uploads that rule to the first router capable…	01:01
luke-jr_	javispedro: nah, PSM is broken ☺	01:01
javispedro	there's at least a set (small or not, that I don't know) of APs where it works	01:02
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dsg	javispedro: Hm, are you sure those APs don't just disallow devices to enter powersaving somehow?	01:02
BCMM	ShadowJK: can't you configure it to start instantly dropping all connections after the first N from the same IP?	01:03
javispedro	dsg: possibly both the router and the n900 implementation are buggy. shit happens sometime...	01:03
javispedro	*sometimes	01:03
BCMM	i know the wifi would still use power, but at least it wouldn't load the cpu much	01:03
* ShadowJK has two wifi routers where it works		01:03
BCMM	and it might even put off an especially clever bot	01:03
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ShadowJK	limksys wrt54gl, and Level1 Wap-006	01:04
delt	on a related note, in "connectivity settings" i set the "wlan transmission power" to 10mW instead of 100 (default) .... seems to work fine, any pros/cons/caveats/etc....?	01:04
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* javispedro has one D-Link router where PSM works flawlessly, d-link 2640		01:04
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MohammadAG	grr	01:04
BCMM	can 802.11 not automatically decrease power like GSM does?	01:04
MohammadAG	QFileSystemWatcher doesn't detect changes done in /proc	01:04
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delt	javispedro: ironic coincidence, i just stepped on it and it broke in half, right before you said that :3	01:05
ShadowJK	BCMM, radiated power is a very small part of total consumption	01:05
ShadowJK	even receive-only uses quite alot :)	01:05
javispedro	delt: the what? :P	01:05
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delt	javispedro: my rooter, or however you spell it =)	01:06
BCMM	ShadowJK: hmm, so why does delt have an option to decrease transmission power? different national regulations?	01:06
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ShadowJK	yes, exactly	01:06
delt	salut cyberfille, ca va?	01:06
luke-jr_	PSM isn't about decreasing power AFAIK	01:06
ShadowJK	you can only use 10mW outdoors in france iirc	01:06
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ShadowJK	luke-jr, correct	01:06
luke-jr_	isn't it about turning the radio off?	01:06
javispedro	yep	01:07
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luke-jr_	which is inherently going to cause delays	01:07
delt	ShadowJK: or you get arrested? (:	01:07
BCMM	yeah, that sound easily enforceable	01:07
javispedro	also, yep.	01:07
ShadowJK	With a proper wifi ap, the delay is going to be approximately that of beacon interval	01:08
ShadowJK	or 50ms :)	01:08
javispedro	a proper AP will even allow you to configure it	01:08
delt	PSM.... phase shift modulation?	01:08
ShadowJK	power save mode	01:08
delt	oh heh	01:09
satmd	commonly known as PM	01:09
ShadowJK	yeah, my cheap 20€ chinese ap let's me configure it :)	01:09
* satmd says good night		01:09
javispedro	heh =)	01:09
delt	bonne nuit satmd	01:09
luke-jr_	ShadowJK: couldn't you save even more power by making it once a second? ;)	01:10
ShadowJK	sure	01:10
javispedro	I use one second	01:10
javispedro	actually half second iirc	01:10
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delt	another weird thing, on the tablet i tar'd up everything on the / that wasn't other filesystems (du -sc told me around 240mb) and i untar it here, gives me 400mb of stuff	01:11
javispedro	makes ssh unusable =)	01:11
javispedro	ssh _to_ the n900, that is.	01:11
ShadowJK	I use 50ms because my symbian cellphones spend so little time scanning each channel that they never found aps if beacon interval was high	01:11
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ShadowJK	delt: did you accidentally include /proc?	01:11
javispedro	rootfs is compressed	01:12
demute	how come ps -A shows so many duplicates? e.g. 2 x camera-ui, 2 x hildon-home, etc	01:12
javispedro	wait, du calcs real size =)	01:13
jarkkom	each app has 2 threads running	01:13
delt	isnt there a good ol telnet server for maemo?	01:13
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javispedro	delt: no, but you can easily port one.	01:13
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javispedro	s/port/repackage mostly	01:13
delt	ShadowJK: nope, excluded everything that was mentioned in "mount"	01:14
delt	well, by the command "mount"	01:14
ShadowJK	real size = apparent size?	01:14
ShadowJK	or size on disk?	01:14
javispedro	unix doesn't know about the latter	01:14
javispedro	(theoretically... and afaik)	01:14
delt	oh, i installed bash from the extras repo, removed the sh -> busybox symlink and made a sh -> bash one ....anything wrong with doing that?	01:14
luke-jr_	delt: nothing weird about that	01:15
javispedro	luke-jr_: it's no longer insta-brick?	01:15
delt	thats the way it is on most unix systems anyway	01:15
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luke-jr_	[17:11:16] <delt> another weird thing, on the tablet i tar'd up everything on the / that wasn't other filesystems (du -sc told me around 240mb) and i untar it here, gives me 400mb of stuff	01:15
ShadowJK	I would also have guessed reboot-loop replacing busybox sh with bash	01:16
yacc	Received disconnect from 10.0.0.90: 2: Too many authentication failures for root <= what do I do to allow root logins again?	01:16
luke-jr_	javispedro: ?	01:16
javispedro	luke-jr_: past experiencies on stock maemo while doing that usually result in reboot loops	01:17
luke-jr_	doing what?	01:17
javispedro	/bin/sh -> bash	01:17
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luke-jr_	I wasn't talking about that	01:17
javispedro	ah.	01:18
luke-jr_	I was talking about how it's pretty normal for du to show different size-on-disk between different filesystems	01:18
delt	tar'ed up from jffs, untar'ed on ext3 here	01:18
demute	how do I change the number of desktops? I only want one, everything is fullscreen anyway.	01:18
luke-jr_	exactly	01:18
javispedro	ah, so du reports compressed size	01:19
luke-jr_	du reports how much space on the disk it uses	01:19
luke-jr_	so for extN, minimum 1 block	01:19
delt	du "disk usage" normally in terms of blocks, so yeah it is usually more than the cumulative file sizes	01:20
javispedro	delt: while we're at it, backup your n900 or undo the sh -> bash symlink if you plan to keep on using maemo.	01:20
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delt	n810 .... and why link it back to busybox?	01:21
* luke-jr_ can't think of any reason one would want /bin/sh -> bash on N900 anyhow		01:21
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luke-jr_	delt: because all Maemo's boot scripts assume it's busybox	01:21
luke-jr_	and don't work in BASH	01:21
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delt	ohhhh... and busybox's "shell" mode is ash, right..... :/	01:21
demute	zsh should be in the repo	01:22
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MohammadAG	how do I suppress output from something?	01:22
delt	which is 99% backward-compatible, but a few weirdnesses might happen, and if they do they will in the WORST possible spot	01:22
delt	good point, thanks	01:22
delt	however i did reboot the tablet after, and nothing has exploded (yet)	01:23
nox-	aah theres a ticket for the enter key bug... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009	01:23
povbot`	Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications	01:23
nox-	i guess the deb in there is for 1.1 tho?	01:24
delt	ok, changing users shells in /etc/passwd instead of the symlink thing...	01:24
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delt	or didn't it mention some "bash-setup" thing in the app. manager?	01:24
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MohammadAG	delt, doesn't work	01:25
delt	MohammadAG: the script thingy that comes with bash?	01:26
delt	i'd figure all it does is change the shell at the end of your account's line in /etc/passwd...?	01:27
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javispedro	I wouldn't do that even...	01:28
ShadowJK	I'd type bash manually :-)	01:28
delt	uh why not??	01:28
delt	chsh is there, unless they forgot to remove it from debian...?	01:29
javispedro	well, half of maemo runs as root. the other half runs as user. enuff said.	01:29
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javispedro	but, you're free to try of course =)	01:29
delt	which makes using a shell i know better, a better idea, right?	01:30
delt	or am i missing something :?	01:30
MohammadAG	just have a backup close by :P	01:30
MohammadAG	and flasher-3.5	01:30
javispedro	^^ :)	01:30
luke-jr_	delt: Maemo isn't based on Debian really.	01:30
luke-jr_	it just uses its package manager	01:30
luke-jr_	or rather, it uses dpkg, the core package manager	01:31
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tripzero	ur mom is based on debian	01:31
MohammadAG	I wouldn't touch anything in /usr really	01:31
luke-jr_	it doesn't use aptitude, Debian's real pkg mgr even	01:31
MohammadAG	I edited some libs in /usr/lib, now I can't use my vkb	01:31
delt	tripzero: YOUR FACE is based on debian	01:31
MohammadAG	how mature	01:31
tripzero	my face is based on ubuntu	01:31
tripzero	s/my/your/	01:31
infobot	tripzero meant: your face is based on ubuntu	01:31
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luke-jr_	delt: basically, there's no chance anything was "forgot to remove from Debian"	01:31
luke-jr_	tripzero: you had that right the first time	01:32
tripzero	luke-jr, both are correct	01:32
delt	not even /usr/doc/README-debian.txt?	01:32
delt	jk	01:32
tripzero	luke-jr, did they just apt-build debian packages?	01:32
tripzero	against their own toolchain?	01:32
delt	uh that would have been debian-x.yz-release-notes.txt	01:32
luke-jr_	tripzero: more or less	01:32
tripzero	well... that's essentially what ubuntu does... and they claim they are based on debian	01:33
javispedro	no	01:33
javispedro	ubuntu tries to be in sync with debian	01:33
luke-jr_	I mean, it's kindof based on Debian, but not to the extent that it's remotely Debian-compatible	01:33
javispedro	maemo usually doesn't	01:33
luke-jr_	in any way	01:33
MohammadAG	delt, /usr/share/docs don't exist	01:33
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MohammadAG	docpurge well.. purges them :P	01:34
tripzero	javispedro, they sync every 6 months, but they really just pull debian packages and rebuild them	01:34
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tripzero	adding their own patches were applicaable	01:34
javispedro	tripzero: well, as I was saying, that's more than what maemo does =)	01:34
tripzero	:nod:	01:34
javispedro	ofc on the other side it is based on an old release of debian	01:34
javispedro	it forked from it.	01:35
MohammadAG	close to etch	01:35
luke-jr_	on the core of an old release	01:35
luke-jr_	only what they picked out for Maemo really	01:35
javispedro	MohammadAG: I'd say older.	01:35
tripzero	i bet ubuntu has all the infrastructure built out to fork debian every 6 months. That'd be handy in the open source world...	01:35
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MohammadAG	well	01:40
MohammadAG	I'm forking DeeGo when MeeGo comes out :P	01:40
luke-jr_	glhf	01:40
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javispedro	MohammadAG: YouGoFirst	01:40
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javispedro	lame joke...	01:40
MohammadAG	lol	01:41
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delt	jffs doesnt have builtin compression?	01:42
javispedro	is this n8x0 or n900?	01:42
MohammadAG	the N900 doesn't use jffs2	01:42
javispedro	I know.	01:42
delt	n810	01:42
MohammadAG	javispedro, I know you do :P	01:42
MohammadAG	that wasn't @ you	01:42
delt	ok, he knows that you know that he knows but he thought i didn't know.	01:43
delt	there	01:43
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MohammadAG	I knew it!	01:43
javispedro	but I had a slight advantage there. I knew I was trying to remember whether delt told me a few lines before he had a n810.	01:44
MohammadAG	k, you win	01:44
javispedro	and instead of backscrolling, I just wasted more bandwidth and a bit of everybody's time. Like I'm doing now!	01:44
* MohammadAG gives javispedro		01:44
* javispedro goes do some real work		01:44
MohammadAG	fail	01:44
* MohammadAG gives javispedro a trillion trolls		01:44
* delt uses the /me command for absolutely no reason		01:44
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* MohammadAG uses the /mkick command to kick everyone in the channel		01:45
delt	javispedro: you know in the 12th century you could have been tortured to death for wasting people's internet bandwidth	01:45
yacc	delt, well, having the special privilege to have been in the Top-3 bandwidth users at my ISP in the summer months, ...	01:47
yacc	delt, I guess in the 12th century they would have me revived at least a dozen times so they could enjoy torturing me more often ;)	01:47
delt	s/tortured to death/decapitated, executed, and then slowly tortured to death/	01:48
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yacc	delt, I mean I've got a 100mbit connection, and these guys get irritated if I just use about 10mbit on average, ...	01:48
delt	you and your whole village. which isn't good if you're living in a city like Tokyo or New York.	01:49
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pupnik	a laptop screen is nicer than a n900 screen	01:52
delt	weird, now du -sc (all that stuff on / ) FROM THE TABLET is telling me 348 megs	01:52
yacc	delt, well, I'm paying a premium to have the 100mbit connection, I could go with a 16mbit connection for way less, ...	01:52
delt	on a 256mb jffs partition. yeah.	01:52
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delt	just /usr is 287 megs according to du -s and there are 22 megs left on that 254.?? meg partition.	01:56
ShadowJK	sim card issue, part IV.. tried a newer sim card. it worked last week in E75. No go at all in my n900 :/	01:56
delt	what puzzles me is thath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS doesn't contain a single word that starts with "compres"	01:56
* ShadowJK sighs thinking of 2 week nokia repair turnaround, bestg case		01:57
MohammadAG	ShadowJK, broken kernel modules?	01:57
jpinx-eeepc	ShadowJK: was it you that had to prise the sim contacts up with tweezers?	01:57
ShadowJK	yeah that helped a bit with this card	01:58
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ShadowJK	dont tell nokia care I did that	01:58
ShadowJK	:)	01:58
* jpinx-eeepc pm's Nokia ;)		01:58
ShadowJK	Yeah, good luck, they aren't exactly easy to communicate with :)	01:59
jpinx-eeepc	ShadowJK: did you try cleaning the sim contacts with a contact cleaner?	01:59
ShadowJK	isopropanol?	01:59
ShadowJK	(running alcohol i guess?)	01:59
jpinx-eeepc	no - that leaves residues	01:59
jpinx-eeepc	there is proper cleaning solution for very small contacts	02:00
delt	Application packages missing: kernel-diablo-modules-extra <--- how would one go about finding and installing this package?	02:00
jpinx-eeepc	delt: apt-cache search....	02:00
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yacc	Anyone got an idea where I need to stuff my epubs for dorian?	02:01
delt	in a girl's fa...oh Epubs sorry!!	02:02
ShadowJK	jpinx-eeepc, funny that, I use isopropanol cleaning optical fibres before splicing specifically because it doesn't leave residue	02:02
delt	ok bad one =3	02:03
jpinx-eeepc	ShadowJK: I was told that it evaporates too quickly and leaves residues	02:04
jpinx-eeepc	ShadowJK: but go with what you know ;)	02:04
* ShadowJK wonders what contact cleaner would be called in .fi...		02:04
MohammadAG	jpinx-eeepc, never leaves residue here	02:05
MohammadAG	I used it when I fixed my PS3	02:05
ShadowJK	oh, I put a piece of paper between battery and sim holder. Now it didn't disconnect on same test that disconnected 3/4 tries: riding pushbike from one end of hall to other	02:05
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delt	oh, the nfs modules aren't included in maemo-diablo either, right? :(	02:08
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, my N900 always needs a paper under the sim	02:09
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nox-	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009#c27	02:12
povbot`	Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications	02:12
delt	heh apt-get update tells me some PGP or GPG error "You might want to run apt-get update to correct these problems"	02:14
MohammadAG	GPG	02:15
MohammadAG	ignore it	02:15
ShadowJK	oh :)	02:15
ShadowJK	I was told ethanol comes mixed with denaturizing agents and leaves residues	02:15
ShadowJK	but isopropanol can be had clean	02:15
delt	blah blah couldnt be verified because public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY [gibberish}	02:16
ds3	ShadowJK: Everclear :D	02:17
rhodric	Yeah, I always have loved that error Delt (about running apt-get update to fix it). They are having errors with the extras repository at the moment	02:17
delt	oh, saw E: earlier because the app. manager was still running.... closed it, now these are only W: (warnings)	02:17
delt	so it did suckseed	02:17
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MohammadAG	ShadowJK, err, you mean isopropyl right?	02:18
delt	sigh E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned errcode (2)	02:20
delt	(trying to run apt-get install kernel-diablo-modules-extra portmap nfs-common)	02:20
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delt	clochette: c'était toi "cybergirl" ya env. une demi-heure de ça?	02:21
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DocScrutinizer51	cleaning contacts is best done with rough unvarnished paper. Liquids likeethanol or propanol or methanol never remove oxids and may destroy plasic and glued joints	02:24
* ShadowJK has access to tons of paper		02:24
ShadowJK	literally	02:24
ShadowJK	MohammadAG, probably, seeing as that's where wikipedia redirects me	02:25
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ShadowJK	maybe I need two pieces of paper under battery :D	02:25
ShadowJK	the one piece did improbe things I think	02:25
delt	okie, now my /proc/filesystems should include "nfs" right?	02:26
delt	yay 1 point for me	02:26
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DocScrutinizer51	meh, disconnect	02:31
DocScrutinizer51	so you probably know how to call that 300g/m^2 unvarnished carton	02:31
DocScrutinizer51	I usually call it 'natural paper business card'	02:31
yacc	Just realized, could it be that the limiting factor of putting data onto the N900 is not my WLAN connection, instead the builtin MMC is limiting it speed-wise?	02:33
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nox-	yacc, as i said i get > 10 MB/s via umass	02:33
yacc	USB mass storage?	02:34
yacc	That sounds nice.	02:34
nox-	yeah	02:34
yacc	hmmm.	02:34
nox-	mtools	02:34
DocScrutinizer51	eMMC over mass storage and USB is 11MB/s	02:34
DocScrutinizer51	avrg for writing 13GB	02:35
raster	doc!	02:35
DocScrutinizer51	raster! :-D	02:35
raster	yay for mmc	02:36
* raster is on a mission to kill nand		02:36
raster	almost there	02:36
DocScrutinizer51	cool :->	02:36
raster	i seem to have everyone on side by now	02:36
raster	as i found a new use for the existing nand	02:36
raster	that massively increases system reliability	02:36
DocScrutinizer51	??	02:37
jpinx-eeepc	ShadowJK: I was going to suggest padding up the sim card - but I got d/c'd :(	02:37
raster	and gets rid of our every day mtd based fs's	02:37
raster	and all their crud	02:37
raster	and it actually makes peolpe happy	02:37
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raster	as they no longer feel they have wasted their nand	02:37
DocScrutinizer51	coooool	02:37
* DocScrutinizer51 loves happiness		02:37
raster	and the bonus is that its making things much more unbrickable :)	02:37
raster	lets hope that the telcos/production agree	02:38
raster	:)	02:38
raster	i'm also on a mission to kill of UMS	02:38
DocScrutinizer51	raster: how's life?	02:38
raster	no more bloody fat fs's being mounted and unmounted	02:38
raster	and exposed to host devices	02:38
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raster	screw that ugly mess	02:39
raster	it has to go	02:39
raster	HAS to	02:39
raster	got most of the way to killing that off too	02:39
raster	life - busy	02:39
raster	dont get enough sleep	02:39
nox-	hm i havent treid copying via usb notwork, maybe that also is faster than wifi...	02:39
raster	killed off another bug just now that i was totally baffled by	02:39
nox-	tried	02:39
raster	now i grok it	02:39
DocScrutinizer51	good :-D	02:39
raster	and i'm feeling good	02:39
nox-	:)	02:39
raster	so i'm doing my little self-motivation battle cries :)	02:40
raster	die ums die!	02:40
raster	die nand die!	02:40
raster	:)	02:40
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DocScrutinizer51	monster agnets for fun (had my first MRT today)	02:40
DocScrutinizer51	magnets*	02:41
yacc	What do I do when the N900 complains that it cannot do mass storage because it's already in use?	02:41
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nox-	stop the process(es) that use it	02:41
DocScrutinizer51	raster: also I carry my very own 0.3 mm^3 of atomic waste with m now, glolite tritium keyring - it's fun for knowing it'll shine on my grave eventually	02:44
raster	hahahahaha	02:44
raster	atomic-doc!	02:44
DocScrutinizer51	:-D	02:44
nox-	haha	02:44
raster	nostop procs using the fat fs when u want to unmount to export to usb host?	02:45
DocScrutinizer51	fuser ftw	02:45
DocScrutinizer51	lsof even	02:45
raster	thats just wrong	02:45
raster	u CAN do it	02:45
raster	but its wrong	02:45
raster	its highly unsociable to go killing procs off just because they have a file open on an fs	02:46
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raster	scenario	02:46
raster	i have my phoe - playing music	02:46
raster	my headphones plugged in	02:46
raster	i arrive home or at work	02:46
raster	plug phone into pc to charge + whatever	02:46
raster	i dont take my headphones out	02:46
raster	i just keep listening	02:46
raster	i want to add soem more music files to my phone while doing this	02:47
raster	so i mount it and copy files on	02:47
nox-	yeah then umass is not for you	02:47
raster	why should my music be killed off just because i want to do this?	02:47
raster	thats just bad	02:47
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DocScrutinizer51	raster: concept of emulating a block device on top of a FS driver has been discussed	02:47
raster	u can do it all without mass storage	02:47
raster	and fat	02:47
raster	u can keep concurrent access	02:47
SpeedEvil	raster: yeah - I thought of that ages ago	02:47
DocScrutinizer51	sftp ftw	02:48
SpeedEvil	raster: emulation of a virtual vfat fs	02:48
SpeedEvil	raster: generated on plug	02:48
raster	SpeedEvil: been done. look at qmeu	02:48
raster	:)	02:48
nox-	heh i was just about to say...	02:48
SpeedEvil	It's messy i you want to do that as you need to handle locking, or versioning	02:48
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DocScrutinizer51	goahead	02:48
raster	u can only do it read-only	02:48
raster	"saafely)	02:48
raster	but thats all u need	02:48
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raster	u only need ums "emulation" for legacy stuff	02:48
raster	like plugging device into printer	02:49
raster	or car steror	02:49
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raster	where it wants to access the audio files on the device to play them	02:49
raster	all u need is RO then anyway	02:49
DocScrutinizer51	give it ro	02:49
raster	for RW access - you do it all via usbnet + samba	02:49
raster	done	02:49
DocScrutinizer51	known concept	02:49
raster	concurrent access	02:49
raster	safe	02:49
DocScrutinizer51	nobody implemented it	02:50
raster	and u dont have the primitive fat fs to worry about on the device side	02:50
raster	ie u can keep proper user id's, permissions, symlinks etc. etc.	02:50
raster	and in fact u can use any fs u like	02:50
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raster	whatever works for your situation	02:50
DocScrutinizer51	smb is the future	02:50
jpinx-eeepc	raster: my aim is to be able to plug the usb into a windows box, use portaputty to ssh in to the box and do my work there. I am highly mobile but can use internet cafes for the big screen/keyboard	02:51
raster	the trick is in making windows work out of the box with it	02:51
raster	:)	02:51
DocScrutinizer51	smb!	02:51
raster	ie the regular windows user can just plug and play like they do with ums	02:51
DocScrutinizer51	samba	02:51
jpinx-eeepc	raster: not secure!	02:52
raster	as windows wont set up the usbnet right out of the box	02:52
raster	:)	02:52
raster	jpinx-eeepc: not secure?	02:52
SpeedEvil	raster: did you make a suggestion when I relogged?	02:52
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raster	SpeedEvil: not to you specifically :)	02:52
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raster	<raster> u only need ums "emulation" for legacy stuff	02:53
raster	<raster> like plugging device into printer	02:53
raster	<raster> or car steror	02:53
raster	* SpeedEvil (1000@mauve.plus.com) has joined #maemo	02:53
DocScrutinizer51	he's slapping our heads with UMB - whatever that is	02:53
raster	thats all u missed	02:53
jpinx-eeepc	raster: ssh encryption over usb to a windows box	02:53
raster	jpinx-eeepc: we're talking smb over usbnet (ie network usb device on your usb cable)	02:53
raster	its a USB CABLE	02:53
SpeedEvil	raster: Ah - yeah - I've worked all this out ages ago	02:53
DocScrutinizer51	alas he left qagain	02:53
raster	point to point	02:53
jpinx-eeepc	raster: it's an INTERNET CASFE	02:53
jpinx-eeepc	Ooops	02:54
SpeedEvil	raster: It's all damn simple if you drop the requirement for vfat.	02:54
raster	u plugged your device in	02:54
SpeedEvil	raster: Which is unfortunately there not only for windows.	02:54
raster	if the pc you are using is not trusted - u are SOL	02:54
SpeedEvil	raster: It's also there for 'I plug my phone into a printer that supports UMS and want to print my photos'	02:54
raster	ssh wont help	02:54
SpeedEvil	Or mp3	02:54
raster	everythnig can be intercepted and logged	02:54
jpinx-eeepc	raster: and ultimately it needs to work over bluetooth	02:54
raster	from passphrase entry thru to exchanging of keys	02:54
DocScrutinizer51	wtf ums	02:55
SpeedEvil	diffle-hymen.	02:55
jpinx-eeepc	raster: I change my ssh pass every time I use it	02:55
SpeedEvil	Or however it's spelled.	02:55
raster	SpeedEvil: see above. qemu. have vfat (read only) emulation available	02:55
raster	u can advretise BOTH a usbnet gadget AND a ums device	02:55
jpinx-eeepc	after I have unplugged	02:55
raster	ums is the vfat emulation	02:55
SpeedEvil	raster: That also implies versioning, and a much more aggressive indexer.	02:56
DocScrutinizer51	WTF IS UMS?	02:56
SpeedEvil	raster: It's especially fun if you want to support holes.	02:56
SpeedEvil	USB Mass Storage	02:56
raster	jpinx-eeepc: still doesnt matter - when connected it can be intercepted - extra commands sent down your ssh pipe. if your host cannt be trusted u are SOL.	02:56
raster	SpeedEvil: do it read-only	02:57
SpeedEvil	raster: If you have the ssh key of the remote side, the local net is just a pipe.	02:57
jpinx-eeepc	raster: it's connectin g froma chroot in the n900 too	02:57
raster	sure - once mounted your fs is "frozen" in its fat emulation state	02:57
SpeedEvil	raster: Still needs someone to implement the much more aggressive daemon.	02:57
raster	files that are deleted or modified will end up wiht io errs	02:57
raster	until an unmount and remount	02:57
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raster	jpinx-eeepc: u are still SOL. anything you can do - can be done by a malicious trojan/virus/app on the "internet cafe machine"	02:58
raster	if u can do it	02:58
raster	it can be done automated	02:58
jpinx-eeepc	Hmmm	02:59
raster	simple version	02:59
raster	u ssh in	02:59
raster	and can type in commands	02:59
raster	ls	02:59
raster	rm	02:59
raster	etc.	02:59
raster	a malicious app can fake a kbd device input stream to your putty/ssh app	02:59
raster	and type in cmds for u	02:59
raster	eg	02:59
raster	rm -rf /	02:59
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raster	there is NOTHING u can do	03:00
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raster	if the host (internet cafe machine) is considered untrusted	03:00
raster	as this can be done al the way down in the drvier itself	03:00
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raster	as deep as u like	03:00
raster	as u cannot make any assumptions on the security of this machine	03:00
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raster	if u cant make assumptions - then u are insecure by definition	03:00
raster	everything u can do as a person, it can do as a malicious machine	03:01
raster	encryption works over an insecure network as u TRUST both ends of the encrypted pipe	03:01
raster	u can verify each end is the "Expceted trusted host" via cert checks	03:01
raster	etc.	03:01
raster	but in the end u trust both points of the conn	03:02
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DocScrutinizer51	facit? log in as user, not as root	03:02
raster	in your scenario the n900 is trusted	03:02
raster	but not the pc end of the conn	03:02
jpinx-eeepc	Hmm -- I am only connecting to the internet cafe machine for the sake of the big screen and kbd	03:02
raster	the actual connection - usbnet itself is as trusted as either end of that conn	03:02
raster	so since u dont trust the pc	03:02
raster	then the whole thng cannot be trusted	03:02
raster	encryption or not	03:02
DocScrutinizer51	STUXNET!!!	03:02
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raster	DocScrutinizer51: its aqn internet cafe meachine - no root. its windows, let's say. the intternet cafe operates the host. it may have had "root" (admin) compromised	03:03
raster	the internet cafe itself may have snooping/trojan software installed as admin/root	03:03
raster	etc.	03:03
raster	so doesnt much matter	03:03
jpinx-eeepc	it will....	03:03
raster	u dont trust the machine	03:04
raster	anything you can do - it can do.	03:04
raster	unless u trust that machine - you shouldnt use it AT ALL	03:04
jpinx-eeepc	ok raster there has to be a way to better secure the n900	03:04
raster	there is	03:04
SpeedEvil	raster: Unless you trust it to do limited things.	03:04
raster	dont connect to the n900 in ANY way other that FROM a trusted host	03:05
raster	SpeedEvil: thats my point	03:05
raster	u have to place some trust	03:05
SpeedEvil	raster: For example, you may accept the risk of screen-scraping, and mitigate the risk of keyboard by having the n900 resting on the big keyboard and checking the noises.	03:05
raster	in the case jpinx-eeepc above outlined - its an "internet cafe" machine	03:05
DocScrutinizer51	raster: but you are 'johndoe' (aka 'user') on N900	03:05
SpeedEvil	raster: I've already wondered about an opensource implementation of the sound->keystroke analyser, for the purposes of eliminating the keyboard.	03:05
raster	imagine one of those random pieces of junk in those crappy convenience stores somewhere in some backwater town in rural india?	03:05
DocScrutinizer51	raster: MY 'sudo gainroot' asks for passwor	03:05
DocScrutinizer51	d	03:05
raster	\or whatever	03:05
SpeedEvil	keyboard cable	03:05
raster	where the guy who runs the convenience store is about as technical as a lump of mud	03:06
raster	all he did was pay for some adsl	03:06
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raster	buy a pc	03:06
raster	plug it in	03:06
* jpinx-eeepc uses internet cafe machines all over the third world - they are unlicenced, pirated XP home edition riddled with viruses		03:06
raster	and charge u 50rupees/hr to use it	03:06
raster	for example	03:06
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raster	now imagine that machine has beeen there for 4 years	03:06
raster	by now its a virus and trojan and script kiddie infested MESS	03:06
raster	the kbdinput is logged and sent off somewhere	03:07
raster	theres a dozen viruses that have infested the kbd driver and otehre things that can insert keystrokes	03:07
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raster	u cant trust that machine as far as u can throw it	03:07
raster	u just never connect it to your trusted n900	03:07
raster	nothing u can do	03:07
SpeedEvil	Sure there is.	03:07
SpeedEvil	It's still useful as a network connection.	03:08
raster	any privilege u give that machine opens a hole to your n900	03:08
jpinx-eeepc	raster: ok - so I use the n900 keypad... I just want the big screeni	03:08
SpeedEvil	an untrusted network connection you VPN through. But still.	03:08
raster	and by using its kbd/screen u are opening such a hole for yourself as a user - and thus it can access anything you can access via that same hole	03:08
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raster	jpinx-eeepc: thats safer as u are allowing "output from n900 only"	03:09
ds3	it doesn't even have to be root/admin	03:09
ds3	there is a little keystroke recorder that you can connect in series with the keyboard	03:09
jpinx-eeepc	raster: by the same token, I use their wifi to the n900, and everything will be snooped	03:09
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jpinx-eeepc	they are usually public wifi with a webpage login	03:09
raster	SpeedEvil: sure - but jpinx-eeepc is takling of using that pc as a kbd/screen	03:09
SpeedEvil	raster: I was wondering today about data-over-skype.	03:09
raster	that means allowing unecrypted input from his fingers thru the kbd of that untrusted machine to the n900	03:09
SpeedEvil	raster: video skype call.	03:09
raster	so doesnt matter if u turn it into an encrypted session over usbnet	03:10
SpeedEvil	raster: vpning over video patterns and audio patterns on the display, and camera	03:10
raster	its already made it thru the untrusted host unecrypted as kbd input	03:10
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raster	the chain of trust is broken as soon as u press the key on that kbd :)	03:10
SpeedEvil	raster: It's not.	03:10
SpeedEvil	raster: You can unplug the keyboard, and use it that way	03:10
SpeedEvil	Either using audio->keystroke, or virtual keyboard style, with the camera pointing at it.	03:11
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raster	jpinx-eeepc: for wifi - as above. u connect frokma trusted host n900) and encrypt BEFORE it gets to the untrusted medium (their wifi), and gets decrypted at the other end (trusted server)	03:11
SpeedEvil	Or even USB keyboard on USB host.	03:11
raster	SpeedEvil: vkbd doesnt help	03:11
jpinx-eeepc	raster: tell that to my bank )	03:11
DocScrutinizer51	check backscroll or chanlogs for german ID cards	03:11
raster	if trojan/virus is scanning and recording the screen	03:11
DocScrutinizer51	same issue	03:11
raster	and can issue the same fake mouse events to do it	03:12
raster	same principle	03:12
raster	u just make it harder and more "custom"' for your device	03:12
SpeedEvil	raster: Sure - attacks that record the screen are mitigated by the simple fact of bandwidth of attack.	03:12
raster	sure - the virsus would need to expliucitly know how your system works	03:12
raster	as its unique/rare	03:12
raster	but thats security via obscurity :)	03:12
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* DocScrutinizer51 yawns		03:13
ds3	raster: don't even need that... a tiny usb box in the keyboard cable and it is game over...	03:13
raster	ds3: that too	03:13
raster	thats my whole point	03:13
raster	if your taks is "real unbreakable security" u cannto have an untrusted element of the chain exist that has unecrypted data	03:13
ds3	http://www.keelog.com/diy.html	03:13
ds3	take a look at that :D	03:13
raster	thats everything from the kbd hw itself	03:13
raster	all the way to the entry point on your trusted host	03:14
raster	encryoption is only useful if you can trust the 2 ends	03:14
raster	then it can work through any number and type of untrusted hops along the way	03:14
nox-	..and then comes obama and wants the keys	03:14
raster	:)	03:14
raster	hahaha	03:14
ds3	encryption/vpns/etc are all easy ways to get a false sense of security	03:14
ds3	one must understand exactly what they are doing and the environment or there will be no security	03:15
raster	ds3: thats my point	03:15
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raster	just throwing some encryuption in makes no sense	03:15
raster	UNLESS u also ensure both ends are trusted	03:15
ds3	raster: nod just echoing what you are saying	03:15
nox-	yeah	03:15
raster	if 1 end is not trusted - there is no point	03:15
raster	u just think its secure	03:15
raster	because u threw in some encryption	03:15
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raster	if u want your n900 secure	03:16
raster	use its own kbd	03:16
raster	and its own screen	03:16
raster	and make sure u dont get anything malicious onto it	03:16
nox-	...and who knows if there are flaws/backdoors in the gsm/3g link too	03:16
raster	ie that u can trust it	03:16
raster	:)	03:16
raster	no indeed	03:16
raster	nox-: indeed	03:16
ds3	or personally verify every bit of software that goes onto the bare hardware	03:16
raster	yup	03:16
raster	actually verify the hw too	03:16
raster	:)	03:16
DocScrutinizer51	in Germany there's an age old sticker for phones (computers, whatever): "Feind hört mit!"	03:17
jpinx-eeepc	hehehe	03:17
jpinx-eeepc	I hear you raster - I'll think again - thanks for the smack ! :)	03:17
raster	np	03:17
ds3	look at the reports of how android apps are screwing over users despite the claims it is secure and will protect your data	03:17
raster	of course.. if u are willing to take a risk	03:17
jpinx-eeepc	raster: it's not so much the logging of keystrokes/screens/etc . I can control what I ask for and only do non-important surfing like looking for flights	03:17
raster	u can "make it harder"	03:17
raster	by making it "more obscure"	03:17
raster	ie there is a lower CHANCE the attacker knows about your obscure connection/control method	03:17
raster	and a lower CHANCE that they can slip something in	03:18
raster	but now we are simply talking of risk factors as a percentage chance that they may be smart/knowledgebale enough to be able to figure your stuff out (in advance)	03:18
raster	encryuption itself depends on that too	03:18
raster	it just makes that chance so low that its effectively 0	03:18
DocScrutinizer51	security by obamity err obscurity	03:19
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DocScrutinizer51	never works	03:19
raster	all encryption (in common use today) can be decrypted	03:19
raster	given enough time and compute power	03:19
raster	juyst with long enough keys + good algorithms it makes that time+equipment required so rediculously huge	03:19
raster	that its silly	03:19
raster	(inthe end time + compute power becomes a dollar amount - how much hw do u have to buy to crak your encryption within 1 minute for example)	03:20
raster	ie a useful period of time to exploit it	03:20
nox-	yeah wasnt there some job posting looking for quantum computing experts a while ago that said `assume working hw'?	03:20
DocScrutinizer51	steganography ftw	03:20
raster	does it cost $0, $100, $1mil, $1billion, etc. etc.	03:20
nox-	so for all we know, non-quantum encryption may already be worthless	03:21
raster	possible indeed	03:22
DocScrutinizer51	quntumis worthless as well	03:22
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DocScrutinizer51	every laser is a quantum multiplier	03:22
raster	ok	03:23
raster	time to popsicle-stand	03:23
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DocScrutinizer51	whatever that maens	03:23
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jpinx-eeepc	that cleared the air ;)	03:24
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ds3	encryption is a delaying tactic	03:24
ds3	so make your information worthless quicker then it takes to decrypt it	03:24
jpinx-eeepc	ds3: very true . time and money will always crack it	03:24
SpeedEvil	Or one-time-pad.	03:24
SpeedEvil	Which nobody can crack - with proper pad managment	03:25
nox-	DocScrutinizer51, sounds like he wants some icecream? :)	03:25
ds3	OTP can be cracked with other means	03:25
DocScrutinizer51	Britains, when getting that enigma from U147(?), were able to decode all the comu of last 3 years	03:26
ds3	i.e. you crack the person, not the encryption.	03:26
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DocScrutinizer51	this is really a replay of a b-movie	03:27
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DocScrutinizer51	actually everything been stated several times	03:28
DocScrutinizer51	steganography ftw	03:29
DocScrutinizer51	my beer much more attractive than that old stinking security debate	03:30
jpinx-eeepc	the fact that "security" is time-limited only means that you have to stay one step ahead by changing keys/passwds/etc more frequently	03:30
* jpinx-eeepc pulls up a crate of guinness		03:30
DocScrutinizer51	ohnoes	03:30
DocScrutinizer51	Britains, when getting that enigma from U147(?), were able to decode all the comu of last 3 years	03:31
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ds3	crate? don't they come in kegs?	03:32
DocScrutinizer51	crope comes in nuges	03:33
jpinx-eeepc	ds3: has never sucked a bottle of guinness?	03:35
jpinx-eeepc	it was aroun long before those kegs ;)	03:35
jpinx-eeepc	d	03:35
ieatlint	guinness is one of those beers that is just so much better from a keg... bottle isn't worth it in my opinion	03:36
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DocScrutinizer51	stuxnet wins	03:36
DocScrutinizer51	next is a generic 8051 virus	03:37
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DocScrutinizer51	our hackers are already half way there	03:37
nox-	haha	03:37
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ieatlint	someone go write a virus to target SCADA systems of breweries like budweiser	03:38
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DocScrutinizer51	FUCK DROPTEST to stone floor from 120cm, slide opened	03:39
nox-	intentionally? :/	03:39
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jpinx-eeepc	ffs!	03:39
DocScrutinizer51	looks odd, maybe can fix the housing	03:39
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DocScrutinizer51	drunken gf	03:40
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ieatlint	lol	03:40
jpinx-eeepc	did her slide open?	03:41
ieatlint	my gf accomplishes that without the need for alcohol	03:41
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DocScrutinizer51	my fault. dont hug people while holding N900	03:42
nox-	:(	03:42
DocScrutinizer51	well it 'works', no?	03:43
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DocScrutinizer51	if only there were some warranty with those devel devices	03:44
DocScrutinizer51	then I'd dare to disassemble to fix it	03:45
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DocScrutinizer51	the screen half outer frame seems broken. Thought it's metal, now I realize it's plasitc that can have parts broken out	03:53
SpeedEvil	:/	03:53
SpeedEvil	Damn.	03:54
* jpinx-eeepc passes the araldite		03:55
DocScrutinizer51	whatever that is	03:56
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jpinx-eeepc	glue	03:57
delt	drunken gf =)	03:58
delt	i like that abbreviation "gf" ... sometimes i can answer with: "You did WHAT with your grandfather???"	03:59
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ieatlint	do you really want to know the answer to that though?	04:00
delt	haha, not more than i want to know how you got your nick :D	04:01
e-yes	http://forum.nitdroid.com/index.php?topic=458.msg2598#new	04:01
delt	damn... who would have thought bzip2'ing a jffs2 image would take so long..!!	04:03
DocScrutinizer51	well, in Germany it's normal to have GV with your GF	04:03
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delt	GV?	04:05
rohanpm	delt: isn't jffs2 already compressed?	04:05
delt	um, the wikipedia arcticle doesn't mention it at all.....	04:05
delt	actually 18:57 < delt> what puzzles me is thath http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS doesn't contain a single word that starts with "compres"	04:05
rohanpm	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 does :-)	04:06
delt	FACE. PALM. duuuuh then slaps forehead anyone have a sledge hammer..... :/\/\/\/\/\	04:06
ieatlint	yeah, jffs2 is compressed	04:07
ieatlint	so is ubifs	04:07
delt	so, junk food filesystem2 is indeed compr...yeah, compressed -)	04:07
ieatlint	and if you have need to mount a jffs2 partition on your desktop, god help you :P	04:08
ieatlint	need to simulate a block device and shit	04:08
delt	oh, on this computer?	04:09
delt	mount -o loop jffs2file.img /mnt/wherever .....? wouldnt work?	04:09
ieatlint	nope	04:09
ieatlint	http://www.digitalpeer.com/id/mount has an example of what to do	04:10
delt	whereas mount -o loop ext3file.img /mnt/whereverelse would.....	04:10
ieatlint	doesn't look as bad on that page.. but it's a real mess when you think about it all, hehe	04:10
delt	dd if=jffs2.img of=/dev/mtdblock0 <--- so he uses a flash device as intermediate	04:10
ieatlint	he emulates an mtd device	04:11
delt	then mounting said device itself and not the device	04:11
delt	then mounting said device itself and not the image	04:11
ieatlint	then dd's the jffs2 image to it	04:11
ieatlint	then mounts the mtd device	04:11
* DocScrutinizer heads ut, cackling in an evil and mad manner		04:11
delt	ah ok... misread this line modprobe mtdram total_size=24576 erase_size=128	04:11
ieatlint	yeah, size may need to be adjusted for your jffs2 image	04:12
ieatlint	there are other guides that talk more about it with actual docs	04:12
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ieatlint	openmoko's wiki likely has a whole page about it	04:12
DocScrutinizer	I should investigate how to cause a CORE MELTDOWN by appropriate I2C commands to the USB charger bq24150 chip	04:13
delt	openwiki's moko likely wuh what?	04:13
DocScrutinizer	moko????	04:13
DocScrutinizer	~joerg	04:13
infobot	hmm... joerg is a HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko, usually known as DocScrutinizer	04:13
ieatlint	http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Jffs2 has some info and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Userspace_root_image has more	04:13
delt	looks up on wikipedia	04:14
DocScrutinizer	meh	04:14
DocScrutinizer	have fun	04:14
delt	joerg du bist's ja?	04:14
delt	hab ein wenig deutsch in der schule gelernt =)	04:14
delt	UND JETZT IST MEINE GEDUL...uh i mean.... now my patience is up with fucking WINDOWS PARTITIONS!@#$%	04:15
DocScrutinizer	schoen fuer dich, aber ich muss dich leider gleich aus dem chanel kicken, fuer abusive language	04:15
delt	tml :(	04:15
ieatlint	lol	04:15
ieatlint	why am i doubting kicken is a real german verb	04:16
nox-	oh it is...	04:16
delt	moment mal, "abusive language" als "fuck" "shit" usw.... oder einfach als deutsch schreiben	04:17
delt	?	04:17
DocScrutinizer	kicker is a famous german news mag about football	04:17
DocScrutinizer	german is the 'better English'	04:18
delt	english -is- a "germanic" language	04:18
DocScrutinizer	for further answers ask youtube: frank zappa	04:18
delt	well, a simplified 10:1 german (at least ancient english with thee, thou, thy, ....)	04:19
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wmarone	ドイツ語分からないな	04:20
DocScrutinizer	lerry likes to dress up funny, tonite he iss dressed up like Frank SSappa. Letss ask him, whatss se deal	04:20
DocScrutinizer	(FZ 200 Motels)	04:21
delt	also ieatlint...uh i mean "the person bearing the nickname ieatlint": canadian french has a LOT of "englishism" words that are waaaay worse than "kicken" :D	04:21
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ieatlint	french is a just a joke :P	04:21
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delt	depends what revision of the language you are speaking	04:22
delt	also did you compile french as a module, or have it brain-built?	04:22
DocScrutinizer	french is a remedy used when you ate much too old oysters	04:23
delt	HAHAHAHA	04:23
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delt	or what you'd THINK are old oysters..... or, either very very good cheese, or very very old shoe soles.	04:24
DocScrutinizer	ever been in china? in a really classical restaurant? :-D	04:25
DocScrutinizer	I never would want to eat that eggs	04:25
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delt	nope.... but those.. chicken abortions from Cambodia were quite similar....	04:26
DocScrutinizer	inside green like copper, outside transparent like platic stored in a air condition of a smokers' apartment	04:26
delt	and about 1/4 - 1/5 of the egg is a solid white-ish mass....that sticks to the inside of the shell?	04:27
delt	if we're talking about the same - or similar thing	04:27
DocScrutinizer	you'd never think anybody could even chew that	04:27
delt	the hard white thing? you're supposed to throw it away	04:28
nox-	i guess many chinese think similar about drinking milk from a cow...	04:28
delt	same as we do for eating cats and dogs....	04:28
nox-	yah	04:28
delt	personally i dont really like aborted chickens, but they can eat cats all they want AS LONG AS ITS NOT MY PRECIOUS CAMILLE!!!!	04:29
DocScrutinizer	actually milk is becoming quite popular in china	04:29
delt	see i <3 my cat	04:29
nox-	heh	04:29
delt	had her for about 8 years.... since she was a little baby kitten the size of a mouse	04:30
DocScrutinizer	shop prices rised for China buying out milk markets in Germany	04:30
nox-	but dont many chinese have lactose intolerance?	04:30
DocScrutinizer	they give a shit	04:30
nox-	hah	04:31
DocScrutinizer	like redskins give a shit bout ethanol	04:31
DocScrutinizer	it's ""cool""	04:31
nox-	:P	04:31
DocScrutinizer	and expensive	04:31
pigeon	what's chinook again?	04:32
DocScrutinizer	so if you can afford	04:32
DocScrutinizer	some maemo vesion?	04:32
pigeon	yeah, is that older or newer than fremantle?	04:32
DocScrutinizer	muuuuuuuuuuuuuuch older	04:32
pigeon	right, thanks	04:33
delt	oh, this X11 server running on the n810, is a X11 server, right?	04:34
DocScrutinizer	damn, thinking about my next breakfast... if I had paypal, how much would you pay for that answer?	04:35
delt	so what part of the UI would be "analogous" to the window manager?	04:35
delt	and would it be possible to configure that "window manager" (or of sorts) to support multi-workspace, like say, xfce, kde, windowmaker, etc....?	04:36
* ShadowJK adjusted the clips holding the battery, and added 900 micrometers of paper padding ontop of sim bay		04:36
ShadowJK	and it's been stable for 15 whole minutes	04:36
DocScrutinizer	c'mon, not even some keystrokes like "0.00"?	04:36
ShadowJK	yay	04:36
delt	DocScrutinizer: sorry, i	04:37
ShadowJK	delt, it doesn't really have a workspace to begin with, considering windows have two possible sizes..	04:37
delt	DocScrutinizer: sorry, i 've never had a mobile phone	04:37
delt	so that \n's why i never been familiar with open(or closed)moko	04:37
DocScrutinizer	k, n8	04:37
delt	fucking US keyboard	04:37
delt	yeah... normal, fullscreen	04:38
ShadowJK	atleast on n8x0 there's physical button to switch app	04:38
DocScrutinizer	ruined N900 plus this non-reply. I think that's ebough for pleasant dreams	04:38
ShadowJK	heh	04:39
delt	so.... int x_size; int y_size; 64 bits (or 32 or 128 depending on architecture) gets replaced by 1 flag	04:39
ieatlint	delt: by "aborted chickens" do you mean balut?	04:39
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: you're my alltime hero!	04:39
ShadowJK	yeah now you're drunk for sure	04:39
delt	personwhoclaimstoeatlint: Balut (egg), an Asian delicacy <--- in that case, yes	04:39
DocScrutinizer	not enough, for sure	04:39
ieatlint	you can get balut here	04:40
DocScrutinizer	actually one beer plus one vodka can't really disturb my operation mode	04:40
delt	A balut is a fertilized duck (or chicken) egg with a nearly-developed embryo inside that is boiled and eaten in the shell.	04:40
ieatlint	it's awesome for freaking out vegans	04:40
delt	yes, that looks a lot like it	04:41
ieatlint	expensive though	04:41
delt	i dont mind the taste, or texture, but ...yeah 1. the price, and 2. out of respect....	04:41
DocScrutinizer	but a girl hitting my N900 so it falls to the ground, that's actually a bummer	04:41
delt	DocScrutinizer: "drunken" as you mentioned earlier? :/	04:42
DocScrutinizer	seems that is correct description, yes	04:42
delt	well, when i had a girlfriend and she was horny, she liked a lot when i was "indrunkitated".... the owner of the block where we lived made wine, sold it to us for $5 a bottle... would get a few and practically ....well, you get the idea	04:44
* DocScrutinizer is off for preparing to do COBOL coding for some bank tomorrow		04:44
delt	anyhow, not that im in any way proud of that, but... meh, still good memories	04:45
DocScrutinizer	meamo doesn't buy bagels	04:45
ieatlint	COBOL ... hehehe	04:45
DocScrutinizer	compilable lyrics	04:46
delt	COBOL im lucky i never had the ...pleasure of learning that in school	04:47
delt	inst that obsolete by a few decades or half a century btw?	04:47
DocScrutinizer	IF BLA IS GREATER THAN 5 THEN ADD 7 TO X, AFTER DIVIDE Y BY Z GIVING RESULT REMAINDER R	04:47
delt	heh, one thing that reminded me of that (maybe 10-15 years ago) was "hypercard" on the old mac's. had a very "fluent-english-like" scripting language	04:48
delt	dunno if that is still in any kind of use today, but .. i had lots of fun with that when i was in high school =)'	04:49
delt	-'	04:49
delt	i especially liked its global variable "it"	04:49
delt	"calculate the value of me + the next widget on this page" "put it in variable X"	04:50
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delt	ms "visual" basic was a total ripoff of hypercard, except 1. it sucked in every aspect compared to, and 2. they were too cheap to develop a scripting language, so they used the basic interpreter they had pirated from sun microsystems like 10 years before	04:51
DocScrutinizer	you can have a COMPUTE A = B + 0 in cobol, but a COMPUTE A = B doesn't work. You have to use MOVE B TO A for that	04:52
delt	or whatever hideous mutation thereof, in the microsoft-ish style of.. microsoft	04:52
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DocScrutinizer	MOVE CORRESPONDING is plain awesome	04:53
DocScrutinizer	no other language has this	04:54
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ShadowJK	disconnects continue :(	04:55
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flailingmonkey	what language?	04:56
delt	crapo bullshit oriented language	04:58
delt	or something like that	04:58
DocScrutinizer	05 STRUCTA; 10 A PIC 9(5); 10 FILLER VALUE "that's just comment"; 10 B PIC 9(2) DSIPLAY; 05 STRUCTB; 10 B PIC 9(8) COMPUTATIONAL; A PIC A(4); ... MOVE CORR STRUCTB TO STRUCTA	04:58
DocScrutinizer	moves A to A and B to B	04:59
DocScrutinizer	while converting the values	04:59
delt	what was the "comment" mark in cobol? (did it even have one?)	05:00
DocScrutinizer	yes, a * in col 6	05:00
DocScrutinizer	iirc	05:00
delt	ok, so if you spaced everything to be readable, and you had a number in the 4 digits starting....uh never mind :3	05:01
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DocScrutinizer	nah, if you never heard about STORAGE SECTION and LINKAGE SECTION, you just shouldn't bother	05:02
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DocScrutinizer	compilable lyrics: a THEN as well as a comma ',' is alowable almost everywhere	05:03
DocScrutinizer	a IF clause is terminated by a .	05:04
delt	21:47 < DocScrutinizer> compilable lyrics	05:04
DocScrutinizer	yes, a DOT	05:04
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DocScrutinizer	the dots always gave us much fun	05:05
DocScrutinizer	almost invisible on impact printer	05:05
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delt	heh....	05:06
delt	-rw-r--r-- 1 user users 206851135 2010-09-30 20:59 rootfs.img.bz2	05:06
delt	[pts/9][user@deimos]:~/n810$ bunzip2 rootfs.img.bz2	05:06
delt	[pts/9][user@deimos]:~/n810$ l rootfs.img	05:06
delt	-rw-r--r-- 1 user users 261619712 2010-09-30 20:59 rootfs.img	05:06
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delt	thats the jffs2 image	05:06
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delt	so balut eggs do support compre..uh wait...	05:07
DocScrutinizer	IF FOO IS EQUAL TO BAR THEN ADD 1 TO VAR-A, THEN DIVIDE VAR-B BY 2. THEN CONTINUE WITH VAR-X DIVIDING X IN VAR-X BY 4 GIVING VOID REMAINDER MODULO-X	05:08
delt	cambodians never cooked balut eggs on a jffs2 filesystem??	05:08
DocScrutinizer	naybody seen the dot?	05:08
delt	DocScrutinizer: yeah, if that wasnt ALL-CAPS it would pretty much resemble "hyperscript" on the old mac =)	05:08
delt	yeah after the 2.	05:09
DocScrutinizer	NOTE THIS IS a comment, until DOT.	05:12
DocScrutinizer	you can have NOTEs everywhere	05:13
delt	in hypercard it was --	05:13
DocScrutinizer	NOTE == /, DOT (.) == /	05:14
delt	add 1 to x -- we count one more	05:14
DocScrutinizer	ADD ONE TO X GIVING Y. now guess if X has changed or not	05:15
delt	um.. in C that would be easy, depends if you use ++X or X++	05:15
delt	but i dont know cobol enough to..uh..... i dont know cobol :)	05:15
delt	um no scratch that... havent coded in too long	05:16
delt	my guess: X HAS CHANGED, just to fuck everyone up?	05:16
DocScrutinizer	COBOL is a giant when it comes to sort / merge of incredibly lagre sets of records in files	05:16
DocScrutinizer	tbh I don't remember if Xhas changed or not	05:17
DocScrutinizer	I always use COMPUTE for that	05:17
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DocScrutinizer	COMPUTE x = x + 1	05:17
delt	hmm......	05:17
delt	JFFS2 version 2.2. (NAND) © 2001-2006 Red Hat, Inc.	05:17
delt	MTD: Attempt to mount non-MTD device "/dev/loop0"	05:17
delt	that is after: mount -o loop -t jffs2 rootfs.img /mnt/	05:18
DocScrutinizer	or ADD 1 to X	05:18
DocScrutinizer	friggin nifgtmare	05:19
DocScrutinizer	GIVING waaaaaaaahhh	05:20
DocScrutinizer	google for COBOL 88	05:20
delt	ADD "girlfriend" to "me" GIVING "head"	05:20
DocScrutinizer	won't work, no " allowed	05:21
DocScrutinizer	except for string constants maybe	05:21
delt	hehe would have thought so	05:22
delt	print GO FUCK YOURSELF ASSHOLE	05:22
DocScrutinizer	microfocus cobol, blarghhh	05:22
delt	unknown output device ASSHOLE	05:22
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DocScrutinizer	STOP RUN	05:23
delt	um that would be "stop" and then "run" or "stop the run"?	05:23
DocScrutinizer	left to reader for exercise	05:24
delt	void warranty(seal) {if (broken) {}}	05:25
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* GeneralAntilles boots an N800.		05:34
delt	oh, i installed a package from the extras repo, that changes the behaviour of the swap? (2 rectangles overlapped) button on the left of the n810	05:37
delt	.... to a mac osx style "tile" display of running processes	05:37
* cehteh had an excellent bug yesterday		05:37
delt	i dont even remember what was the default behaviour of that button :D	05:37
GeneralAntilles	People complained a lot about the hardware, but it really had a lot to recommend. . . .	05:37
cehteh	when rearraning desktop icons every contact-icon was doubled (and exact copy underneath)	05:37
cehteh	but deleting one of them deleted both :P	05:38
delt	uh wuh?	05:38
delt	thewebsiteisdown.com	05:38
delt	:D	05:38
delt	the first clip they have on there is hilarious	05:38
delt	"sales guy vs. web dude" or something	05:39
delt	lmao'd several times watching it :D	05:39
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delt	so... "knots" (stream media from your desktop computer) is pretty useless if you have nfs working, i presume...?	05:45
ShadowJK	I forget, does knota do the upnp thing?	05:45
ShadowJK	some of these things have the desktop transcode videos on the fly to something more suitable	05:46
delt	cd - is a blessing when you can type 2 characters per second instead of 20, hehh.....	05:47
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ShadowJK	so how did you end up getting a n810 (right?) at this point in time	05:48
delt	my brother sold it to me, wanted one with cellphone capabilities builtin	05:48
delt	and he got it second hand from a guy in ontario	05:48
delt	so it was mine uh.... 3rd hand :D	05:48
ShadowJK	ah :)	05:49
delt	still owe him $40-50 bucks for it btw, had it for almost 2 weeks now	05:49
ShadowJK	is it still on original battery?	05:49
delt	well, says nokia on it....	05:49
ShadowJK	impressive :)	05:49
delt	fully or 9x% charged, says about 5 hours operation, as per specs i read on the net before "buyrowing" it from my bro (:	05:50
ShadowJK	the meter lies :)	05:51
ShadowJK	or rather, it always assumes the battery is brand new	05:51
delt	for the last few years, was always carrying an ipod nano (or more recently a sansa e260) .... which i mostly used to have my notes/phone#/etc. handy	05:52
delt	and sometimes to listen to music	05:52
* ShadowJK is the local battery geek		05:52
delt	hehe	05:52
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delt	well, this one gives me a good 3:30 - 4:00 hours continuous without plugging to the charger	05:53
SpeedEvil	No!	05:53
* SpeedEvil is!		05:53
SpeedEvil	Today I started building my battery analyser.	05:53
SpeedEvil	To do 12V/3.3/1.2 cells	05:54
delt	how much$ would a brand new one cost, say on ebay once i get sick of this one ie. when it drops to 10 minutes after 5 hours charging :D	05:54
SpeedEvil	well - batteries	05:54
SpeedEvil	$4?	05:54
SpeedEvil	Ebay batteries work well for most people.	05:54
SpeedEvil	But...	05:54
ShadowJK	they kinda vary in quality :/	05:54
delt	plus $19.95 shipping, + border taxes, broker, hmm, $87.39 not too bad	05:55
ShadowJK	my original nokia is slightly pregnant and has about half capacity left	05:55
delt	speaking of pregnant i got a phone call from an old friend today, hadnt seen her in almost a year	05:55
delt	and well.. punchline is..... she's pregnant :3	05:55
ShadowJK	$4 from china with hong kong post sailing past customs, $4 for cupcakes for the mailman so he doesn't take it and flog on ebay	05:56
delt	hey, what if i solder 2 or more of them in parallel, like i did with the ipod :D that worked, heheh	05:56
delt	or just buy a broken n8x0 on ebay for parts (like for ex. the battery connector) and solder said connector in parallel well.. you get the idea	05:57
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delt	oh, i also noticed milkytracker is in the extras repo, which is AWESOME!!!! ....but no schism tracker????? come on..... !!!	05:58
newbie007	greetings, I have a n900 and just got a pico projector. It's a projector that has AV video input. I got a blue screen on the device.. any ideas?	05:59
delt	(i designed the schism tracker logo!!)	05:59
delt	like 5 years ago	05:59
delt	and fixed a few bugs / added a few features+enhancements in schism, when i had a few braincells left	05:59
SpeedEvil	newbie007: have you swirtched it to NTSC/PAL/...	06:01
delt	anyway, when i first got this tablet, that was one of the first programs i was wondering "will schismtracker run on that?"	06:01
delt	s/when/before/	06:02
infobot	delt meant: anyway, before i first got this tablet, that was one of the first programs i was wondering "will schismtracker run on that?"	06:02
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delt	s/got/bought/	06:02
infobot	delt meant: anyway, when i first bought this tablet, that was one of the first programs i was wondering "will schismtracker run on that?"	06:02
delt	s/bought/was offered to buy/	06:03
newbie007	SpeedEvil: never thought of it,, I don't think either device has it though.. ?	06:03
delt	ok ok....	06:03
SpeedEvil	newbie007: you can switch the video standard onn900	06:03
SpeedEvil	newbie007: umm.... settings -> tv out I think	06:03
newbie007	ah ok,, good idea.. settings.. probally	06:03
delt	but seriously, with a foldable bluetooth keyboard, that would really be kickass =)	06:04
newbie007	SpeedEvil: I went to pal, but same outcome	06:04
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newbie007	SpeedEvil: if I hook it to the tv, it just works.. I think it might be the cable.. It's a male headphone jack - smaller male headphone jack	06:05
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SpeedEvil	hmm	06:09
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newbie007	SpeedEvil: I did a av audio cables connection between the two devices and it works!	06:13
SpeedEvil	:)	06:15
newbie007	if anyone cares: the quality of the projector (pico100) is less than I had thought, but works well, I can switch between pal/ntsc	06:15
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GAN900	"Don't respond to goddamn screen taps."	06:19
GAN900	is a good OS feature	06:19
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GAN900	The more technology I use the more I loathe it.	06:20
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SpeedEvil	newbie007: the resolution is something like 250 pixels horizontally	06:21
SpeedEvil	Of the otuput	06:21
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raster	GAN900: software used to be simple and reliable. then users wanted features. thats where it all fell apart. :)	06:24
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newbie007	640x480. barley usable, but it works	06:39
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SpeedEvil	It's not 640 pixels	06:42
SpeedEvil	http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52794	06:42
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raster	SpeedEvil: i think u got rows and columns mised up	06:50
raster	:)	06:50
SpeedEvil	raster: nope	06:51
raster	u flip between them	06:51
raster	There are simply not 800 columns displayed on any TV standard, by most sensible measures.	06:51
raster	then instantly u go into the 480 rows of ntsc	06:51
raster	:)	06:51
raster	the rest makes sense	06:52
SpeedEvil	Seperate topics	06:52
SpeedEvil	800 columns - from the 800 pixel resolution of the screen	06:52
SpeedEvil	umm	06:52
SpeedEvil	Or is it 820	06:52
* SpeedEvil forgets		06:52
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raster	of the n900?	06:52
SpeedEvil	yes	06:52
raster	800x480	06:53
raster	well u flip back and forth	06:53
raster	columens, then rows, then back to horiuzontal res	06:53
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raster	next paragraph	06:53
SpeedEvil	I was responding to 'etting at least the same resolution as the internal screen would be great.'	06:53
raster	the active picture is 52/64ths of the line	06:53
raster	ie that means that the HORIOZNTAL visible region is 52/64ths of the line	06:54
raster	u cant getanywhere near the internal screen indeed	06:54
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raster	composite is hoirrid	06:54
raster	i think u;'ll be lucky to get 400x240 out of it	06:54
SpeedEvil	I don't see the problem you're having with the text	06:54
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raster	oh wait	06:55
raster	never mind	06:55
raster	i see	06:55
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SpeedEvil	It could probably be clearer - but meh	06:58
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raster	hmm	06:58
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raster	actuallyt your numebrs might be a little off	06:58
raster	tho about right-ish	06:58
raster	@ 4.5mhz for liminance	06:58
SpeedEvil	I was shooting for order of magnitude	06:58
raster	u have 29.96 frames per sec (interlaced frames)	06:58
raster	and 480 lines (not all visible)	06:59
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raster	so thats more like 312	06:59
raster	of which only part of the line is visible	06:59
raster	etc. etc.	06:59
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raster	but order of magnitude you're right :)	06:59
raster	tv out is crap	06:59
raster	anyway	07:00
SpeedEvil	480 lines of picture information, some of which may be lost to overscan	07:00
raster	yup	07:01
raster	<raster> and 480 lines (not all visible)	07:01
raster	(the not all visible bit)	07:01
SpeedEvil	And anyway, I divided by the line frequency	07:03
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SpeedEvil	http://www.analog.com/en/analog-to-digital-converters/ad-converters/ad7195/products/product.html	07:07
SpeedEvil	argh	07:07
raster	bah	07:09
raster	analog	07:09
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newbie007	is there any way to display a blender image or html5 on the n900 ?	07:33
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SpeedEvil	Someone got blender up and running	07:34
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newbie007	really I'd just want a player.. I'll googalge it	07:34
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h4xordood	heya :)	08:37
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h4xordood	can some one tell how to change theme from xterminal	08:37
h4xordood	my theme button in system settings not workin	08:37
h4xordood	when i click themes it shows nothin	08:38
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slonopotamus	and now, after a year of porting gentoo on my n800 and compiling kde for it, i can finally feel the full glory of being able to play KTron on it!	08:59
Stskeeps	it took a year to compile kde?	09:00
Stskeeps	:P	09:00
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newbie007	how can I get the source for Desktop Clock Widget v0.4 ?	09:01
slonopotamus	no, i tried gnome before that :)	09:02
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merlin1991	newbie007: apt-get source desktop-clock-widget 0.4	09:03
merlin1991	newbie007: or http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras_free_source/desktop-clock-widget/0.4/	09:04
newbie007	merlin1991: thanks, what ah perfect	09:04
newbie007	I'm currently running a rpm based os	09:04
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slonopotamus_	oh noes	09:07
slonopotamus_	it doesn't go UP	09:07
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slonopotamus_	looks like world domination failed.	09:08
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skyscraper	hi	09:26
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skyscraper	is it possible to configure n900 to only connect to sip-number "xy" only when its connected to wlan "abc"	09:27
skyscraper	?	09:27
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mveplus	hello guys	09:33
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flailingmonkey	sounds like that guy with the pico projector "discovered" how Nokia went with a non-standard AV/headphone jack	09:37
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flailingmonkey	so, did usb host-mode and jrbme on N900 get stuck?	09:53
flailingmonkey	in their development	09:54
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slonopotamus_	flailingmonkey: afaik, usb host-mode has separate channel, can't remember its name though	10:02
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flailingmonkey	hmm, interesting	10:02
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flailingmonkey	probably could search the irc logs for it	10:03
flailingmonkey	s/probably/I/	10:03
infobot	flailingmonkey meant: I could search the irc logs for it	10:03
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T-Co	usb host-mode in N900? Say what?	10:03
psycho_oreos	its in alpha state	10:03
mveplus	yes	10:04
T-Co	Awesome	10:04
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slonopotamus_	flailingmonkey: #maemo-hostmode-discussion	10:04
flailingmonkey	when fremantle goes to community SSU, I expect that will help it to be deployed	10:04
flailingmonkey	slonopotamus_: thanks	10:04
Koll	hi all	10:05
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mveplus	thanks slonopotamus_	10:05
Koll	Here you can chat about different topics?	10:05
slonopotamus_	flailingmonkey: also, this thread: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=52227&page=22	10:05
slonopotamus_	Koll: except nitdroid	10:05
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psycho_oreos	Koll, as long as its related to maemo	10:06
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Koll	what is nitdroid? i am russian	10:07
slonopotamus_	:D	10:07
Koll	i bad know english	10:07
slonopotamus_	Koll: android port for nokia tablets	10:08
flailingmonkey	slonopotamus_ beat me to it	10:08
slonopotamus_	flailingmonkey: uh?	10:08
slonopotamus_	Koll: whatever, ask your question :)	10:09
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Koll	Here you can talk about American life? Parties, get-togethers, entertainment?	10:10
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Stskeeps	only bacon	10:10
Koll	bacon??	10:11
johnx	american life = bacon	10:11
Koll	why?	10:12
johnx	parties? only kind of party that's worth talking about is a bacon party	10:12
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Koll	oh...	10:13
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Koll	and for films like American Pie. These parties do not?	10:14
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Koll	hey	10:16
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Koll	are you sleeping	10:16
Koll	?	10:16
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psycho_oreos	I really don't think here would be a nice place to talk about American life :) not all of us comes from stateside (US)	10:17
kerio	BACON!!!!!!!	10:17
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johnx	kerio, see. you understand me at least ...	10:17
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T-Co	Yanks. pfft	10:18
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johnx	T-Co, at least we can agree on bacon	10:18
kerio	i'm actually italian ._.	10:18
johnx	<- yank :)	10:18
T-Co	johnx, Word	10:18
delt	mOOOzzarella!	10:19
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T-Co	I'm Finnish	10:19
ieatlint	nah, we don't agree on bacon in my experience	10:19
delt	i eatta riggatOOOOni with you tonIIIght!	10:19
johnx	O_o;	10:19
ieatlint	europe tends to prefer a thicker cut than is at all popular or common here in the states	10:19
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delt	"a fish called wanda" hilarious movie :D	10:20
T-Co	I just bought 0.5cm slices of bacon for my Coq au Chainti I'm planning to make today	10:20
T-Co	*Chianti	10:20
delt	coq au quoi???	10:20
delt	uh... *quoi?	10:20
T-Co	Coq au vin but made in Chianti so Coq au Chianti	10:20
CWhiteham	C'est quoi un coq au chianti?	10:20
delt	en plein ce que j'allais demander	10:21
Koll	are you smoke weeds?	10:21
ieatlint	yeah, 5mm bacon is much thicker than you find here	10:21
T-Co	delt, :)	10:21
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ieatlint	we're typically probably 2mm or so	10:21
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xkr47	lol	10:22
delt	i remember "coq ou poule" from when i was a kid (those plants that grow in grass)	10:22
Koll	you eat bacon?	10:22
delt	me? generally yes, but not right now. i am eating Pretzel und Bier.	10:23
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Koll	)))	10:23
Koll	and smoke canabis ?	10:23
delt	Bacon nicnt enthalten.	10:24
delt	nope... never touched that shit in my life, and dont intend to	10:24
crashanddie	delt, isn't poule ou coq a game?	10:24
delt	s/dont intend to/wouldnt be a good idea/	10:24
infobot	delt meant: nope... never touched that shit in my life, and wouldnt be a good idea	10:24
delt	medications and all	10:24
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delt	crashanddie: yeah, a stupid 5 year old thing.... you had to guess if it was "coq" (rooster) or "poule" (uh..female chicken == hen?)	10:25
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mece	MohammadAG51, ping	10:25
T-Co	I once od'd and never touched since. First and last time :)	10:25
Koll	is the prevention of cancer. And flies)	10:25
delt	drugs is the prevention of cancer, and flies??	10:26
delt	<--- not following	10:26
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Koll	dependance has not	10:27
CWhiteham	wir sall but probably doir sasn't havir sa thir sa faintir sast cluir sa what is going on.	10:28
CWhiteham	s/ir sa/e/g	10:28
infobot	CWhiteham meant: well but probably doesn't have the faintest clue what is going on.	10:28
delt	heh	10:28
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delt	i was thinknig about coming with some completely obfuscated gibberish, which once through s/a/b/ or something, said "go fuck yourself" or something	10:29
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delt	(i may have just invented a new artform :D )	10:29
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pupnik_	review stoner ideas later, when sober	10:30
Koll	delt i bad understand you	10:30
delt	oooh, so the bot can take several -e arguments, just no "-e"	10:31
delt	now about that sa/e/g..??	10:31
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Koll	i not understanding	10:32
delt	koll which part?	10:32
Koll	i was thinknig about coming with some completely obfuscated gibberish, which once through s/a/b/ or something, said "go fuck yourself" or something	10:32
Koll	you were stoned to?	10:33
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delt	hxlly mzthxfzckxr -> hello motherfucker (s/x/e/ s/y/o/ and so on)	10:33
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delt	so the "art form" i "invented" consists of:	10:34
delt	type a bunch of junk	10:34
delt	then s/ a bunch of junk	10:34
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flailingmonkey	why would #maemo have any topics other than the BEEESSSTTT mobile phone os commercially released	10:34
delt	and the bot says <user> meant: <something clever/obscene/amusing/etc...>	10:34
flailingmonkey	infobot always understands me. she's my best friend	10:35
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mece	flailingmonkey, well fonearena haven't officially announced the winner yet, if that's what you're referring to.	10:36
delt	how do you define and/or determine the gender of an irc bot?	10:36
FauxFaux	Stick it in it, and see if you're gay afterwards.	10:36
delt	oh, good one... this woman comes home, and finds her husband with a fly swatter.	10:36
delt	He says "Hey honey, i just killed 5 flies! 2 males and 3 females"	10:37
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delt	so she asks "how do you tell the males from the females???"	10:37
delt	"easy: 2 were on the beer cans, and 3 were on the phone :D "	10:37
flailingmonkey	lool	10:38
Koll	lol)	10:38
delt	not as "true story" as the "dont call your brother a SOB in front of your mom" but kind of amusing none the less -)	10:39
Koll	bye	10:40
delt	in french it's even worse "fils de pute" means son of a hooker/prostitute/whore/whatever	10:41
delt	nite koll	10:41
delt	or good morning in your case? (i probably should have "nite"d a number of hours ago)	10:42
mece	LOL	10:42
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mece	good one delt :)	10:42
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delt	uh what? -)	10:43
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delt	oh yeah, about backing up the jffs2 partition on the n810 ... hahaha dunno wtf i was thinking :D :D	10:44
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delt	well, /usr/src/<project_of_some_importance> and /tmp/src/<any_other_junk_i_need_slash_want_to_install> have worked great for the last 15 years, using the root account only to install....	10:49
delt	so whoever said /usr/ HAS TO be mounted read-only.... do you have mount points in /usr/src and /usr/local ...?	10:50
delt	not to mention 5 or 6 hdd's partitioned for each directory from /	10:50
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johnx	delt, /tmp commonly gets erased during boot on a lot of distros, just FYI :)	10:56
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delt	johnx: yeah like maemo heheh.....	10:59
skyscraper	i'm having a problem installing an app - getting: subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255	10:59
johnx	skyscraper, probably other errors. pastebin the whole output if you can	10:59
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delt	personally i just think of /tmp as a part of my filesystem i should cleanup myself, sort out what i want to keep and rm -rf the rest	10:59
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skyscraper	johnx its the nitdroid installer O:-)	10:59
johnx	skyscraper, ok	11:00
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skyscraper	Setting up nitdroid-installer (0.2.6-3) ... dpkg: error processing nitdroid-installer (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 255	11:00
johnx	is that actually the whole output from when you typed the command until you're back at a prompt?	11:01
johnx	if it's too long, use pastebin	11:01
skyscraper	not 100%	11:01
johnx	uhm, other than that, look at the content of the script it's talking about and try and understand why it would exit 255	11:02
skyscraper	wait	11:03
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skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:~# apt-get install nitdroid-installer Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree Reading state information... Done nitdroid-installer is already the newest version. The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required: python-crypto libtpsession telepathy-salut pidgin-facebookchat libqt4-maemo5-dbus liblongcat1 libqt4-maemo5-gui libqtm-messaging python-telepathy acc	11:03
johnx	~pastebin	11:03
infobot	[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you should paste anything over 3 lines so you don't flood the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://bin.cakephp.org/ , http://asterisk.pastey.net/ , or install pastebinit with yum or aptitude.	11:03
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delt	~maemo	11:04
infobot	i heard maemo is http://maemo.nokia.com/ http://maemo.org/ http://www.forum.nokia.com/Technology_Topics/Device_Platforms/Maemo.xhtml	11:04
skyscraper	http://pastebin.com/wQx5DBq0	11:04
delt	~women	11:04
infobot	women are not boys! :P	11:04
delt	~men	11:04
infobot	Men are dumb! Thank goodness I'm just a bunch of bits on the interweb!	11:04
delt	~interweb	11:05
delt	~infobot	11:05
infobot	somebody said infobot was better than wowbot	11:05
Myrtti	are you done soon?	11:05
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delt	soon as sometime in the recent/immediate past, yes (and sry :D )	11:05
johnx	delt, if you want to have long conversations with infobot you can actually send a PM I believe	11:06
johnx	skyscraper, look at the contents of /var/lib/dpkg/info/nitdroid-installer.postinst or some similarly named file	11:06
johnx	then try and find where it says to exit 255	11:06
delt	heh =)	11:07
delt	~johnx infobot -> marital_status	11:07
skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:/var/lib/dpkg/info# cat nitdroid-installer.postinst #!/bin/sh update-sudoers Nokia-N900-42-11:/var/lib/dpkg/info#	11:07
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delt	oh, "jk" here would be kind of .... um, over-sarcastic	11:08
skyscraper	fixed it - renamed the nitdroid-installer.postinst	11:08
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johnx	skyscraper, just FYI, you may or may not just have made your N900 unbootable	11:09
johnx	google about 'update-sudoers' a bit	11:09
skyscraper	why?	11:09
johnx	why? cause I googled and people were having booting problems and talking about update-sudoers in the same post	11:10
skyscraper	argh	11:10
johnx	so you should read up and make sure it's not a problem before you reboot	11:10
johnx	5 minutes of reading now will save you time later	11:10
skyscraper	i've done "update-sudoers" manually in shell	11:10
johnx	entirely possible I'm wrong (likely even), but do your homework :)	11:10
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skyscraper	no error	11:10
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johnx	update-sudoers ; echo $?	11:11
johnx	run that ^	11:11
skyscraper	ok wait	11:11
johnx	if it prints 0, you're good. if it prints 255 it means it's still failing	11:11
skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user# update-sudoers ; echo $? 255	11:12
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johnx	time to do a bit of googling before you reboot	11:12
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skyscraper	nitdroid wont install to	11:13
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skyscraper	Going to download the installation files. This will take a rather long time! Downloading nitdroid.manifest ...done Downloading NitDroid-0.0.8-Popov.tar.bz2 ...FAILURE. Bailing out.	11:13
skyscraper	afk a bit	11:13
skyscraper	be back later	11:13
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delt	whoa... i need to sleep... be back in a few weeks :/	11:20
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skyscraper	re	11:42
skyscraper	WTF	11:43
skyscraper	my /etc/sudoers is very long	11:43
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skyscraper	having massive problems -.-	11:56
Hoxzer	which one uses more power on n900 3/4 wlan or full bar 3G?	11:58
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Stskeeps	you mean low bar 3g	11:58
skyscraper	when i have to reflash n900 is the /home/user/* folder deleted?	11:58
Stskeeps	low bar == need stronger signal	11:58
Hoxzer	Stskeeps: no, zI mean full bar	11:58
Hoxzer	a.k.a high bar	11:58
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skyscraper	f*** i CANT remove kernel-module-cifs... it says its in a very inconsistent state	11:59
psycho_oreos	you could probably try force remove	12:00
skyscraper	it says it should reinstall it... but when i try he wants to replace but gets many errors	12:00
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skyscraper	anyone could help? http://pastebin.com/C3SZ8kHt	12:02
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pupnik_	http://learningwebgl.com/blog/?p=2303 WebGL on N900!	12:03
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psycho_oreos	skyscraper, which kernel version are you running (in full detail)	12:05
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skyscraper	psycho_oreos... i had stable kernel-power running... 10 minutes ago i used apt-get upgrade and updated kernel-power to extras-devel version.. so i think its kernel-power beta	12:07
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psycho_oreos	skyscraper, do uname -r and print out the output	12:08
skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user# uname -r 2.6.28.10power37	12:09
skyscraper	i doestn rebootet atm	12:09
skyscraper	anyone said i should NOT restart when my update-sudoers fails with error code 255	12:10
psycho_oreos	you'll most likely need to reboot, as the package manager was looking for the current kernel version that you are running (which is obviously non-existent because you did kernel upgrade	12:10
skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user# update-sudoers ; echo $? 255	12:10
skyscraper	is this a problem?	12:11
psycho_oreos	I don't know about that but I don't know why you updated the kernel without rebooting before installing a kernel modules	12:11
skyscraper	Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user# update-sudoers ; echo $?	12:11
psycho_oreos	s/modules/module/	12:11
infobot	psycho_oreos meant: I don't know about that but I don't know why you updated the kernel without rebooting before installing a kernel module	12:11
skyscraper	hm	12:11
skyscraper	should i use "sudo reboot" or shutdown and start it via power button?	12:12
psycho_oreos	how relevant is the update-sudoers anyway?	12:13
skyscraper	dont know	12:13
psycho_oreos	or who said it or from where you read it/are following it?	12:14
mece	anyone who understand things about qml+js present?	12:14
skyscraper	psycho_oreos: johnx said it	12:15
psycho_oreos	skyscraper, hmm	12:15
psycho_oreos	did he also tell you to upgrade the kernel, or did you do that yourself?	12:15
skyscraper	i did that because i hoped that "apt-get upgrade" will fix some probs	12:16
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psycho_oreos	well yeah in other words you've complicated the matter yourself lol	12:17
skyscraper	-.-	12:18
psycho_oreos	what you could do is either symlink that current kernel version with the installed kernel version for directory of kernel modules (or mount --bind) and then install the package.. double check to see if update-suoders thing exits with 0, if it still doesn't.. then reboot lol	12:19
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skyscraper	hmm	12:21
psycho_oreos	I don't understand how update-sudoers work let alone relate to the situation on hand but johnx seems to be a reputable person so I'm going to assume the same thing as well, make sure that it exits with 0 by all means :)	12:22
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yacc	Wondering, does maemo support usbnet when connected via USB?	12:33
yacc	Basically is there a way to tether through a N900 via USB?	12:33
psycho_oreos	yes, usb ip networking?	12:33
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yacc	So I just need to "click" PC-Suite and do the ifconfigs on both sides?	12:34
psycho_oreos	no its not that simple.. hang on there's a link	12:34
psycho_oreos	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking	12:35
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skyscraper	yeah that with the symlink worked!	12:36
skyscraper	installed ok	12:36
skyscraper	but kernel-power-flasher crashes	12:37
skyscraper	because of post-install "update-sudoers" (crashing with 255)	12:37
Stskeeps	RST38h: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/columnists/miles-kington/high-court-hangups-747313.html	12:38
mece	Check out this short film by Blender Foundation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRsGyueVLvQ It's very impressive :)	12:38
skyscraper	anyone could help with crashing "update-sudoers"?	12:38
psycho_oreos	after install, you should remove the symlink	12:39
yacc	Well, actually I want to do it the other way, does the N900 default kernel have iptables NAT available?	12:39
skyscraper	ok	12:40
psycho_oreos	I don't think N900 by default would have iptables but I could be wrong	12:40
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mece	Stskeeps, omgwtflol!	12:41
skyscraper	should i restart or its possible to fix the problem with update-sudoers?	12:41
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ShadowJK	uusually you use n900 as usb 3g modem, not as usb ethernet device..	12:46
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mece	Stskeeps, it continues:.. http://www.ocnus.net/artman2/publish/Light_Side_14/The_Man_who_Stole_40_000_Coat_Hangers.shtml	12:48
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nandan	hello	12:48
korhojoa	hello	12:48
nandan	i want to flush n900	12:48
nandan	how can i do it	12:49
psycho_oreos	there are instances where you need n900 to function as usb ethernet device :p such as file transfers whilst maintaining shell/vnc access	12:49
korhojoa	uhh.	12:49
korhojoa	put it in the toilet bowl. push button/pull lever	12:49
nandan	sorry flash	12:49
korhojoa	i don't know why you want to do that though	12:49
nandan	:)	12:49
korhojoa	send it to me instead	12:49
korhojoa	read the wiki	12:49
nandan	i got some problem	12:49
yacc	ShadowJK, you mean that I get an USB "serial device" that I can set AT commands to do connect?	12:49
psycho_oreos	nandan, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware	12:49
nandan	okk	12:50
nandan	thanks	12:50
psycho_oreos	nw	12:50
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psycho_oreos	any of you have bh-905? mine no longer powers up.. damn flaky nokia devices :\|	12:54
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skyscraper	rebooted.... n900 bricked	12:56
skyscraper	showing some crazy bootmanager restarting all the time and i cant select anything	12:56
skyscraper	oh	12:57
psycho_oreos	ahh fixed it, stupid thing	12:57
skyscraper	when i press "1" without pressing anything before it boots original maemo kernel	12:57
skyscraper	omap... not power	12:57
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skyscraper	yeah back in maemo now :D	12:57
skyscraper	how to modify the bootmanager to boot the powerkernel?	12:58
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marmoute	skyscraper: with a bootmanager modifycation tools	12:58
skyscraper	marmoute: can i download it with apt-get?	12:58
skyscraper	uname -r says 2.6.28-omap1... thats original kernel istn it?	12:59
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majeru	hi, has anyone in here OC'ed a N900?	13:08
secyritas	ye	13:09
Stskeeps	majeru: would recommend against it	13:09
majeru	:)	13:09
majeru	mine is running at 900 MHz for a few minutes now, and seems stable	13:10
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majeru	i'm keeping it at max with an infinite loop	13:11
Stskeeps	yeah, but your eMMC suffers and other parts	13:11
majeru	the temperature is now 38C	13:11
Stskeeps	people has been getting bad sectors on emmc = fucking bad	13:11
Stskeeps	:P	13:11
DocScrutinizer2	~tell majeru about omap-oc	13:11
majeru	Stskeeps: ouch	13:11
Stskeeps	so that's why i'm saying 'don't do it'	13:11
majeru	thanks	13:12
SpeedEvil	majeru: you cannot measure the core temperature	13:12
majeru	ok, I quit then	13:13
majeru	I didn't notice much improvement anyway	13:13
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ShadowJK	i'm surprised if it just appears as bad block	13:19
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ShadowJK	that'd be like the first flash device i'd ever seen that fails so benignly	13:19
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ShadowJK	usually they just lock up and require poweroff reset on a bad block condition ;p	13:20
ShadowJK	yacc: yes	13:21
yacc	ShadowJK: Only issue left is that phone starts to act as an comedian when used as an USB modem => I'm getting yellow band messages about the phone using more power than it gets from the host, and it recommends to use the power outlet charger instead. Wonder where Nokia has hidden that second USB port, if I know my luck it's under the battery and inaccessible ;)	13:23
ShadowJK	hehe	13:23
lcuk	yacc, if you have yellow messages visible, that means your screen is illuminated ;)	13:24
ShadowJK	power use stays approximately balanced at +-0 with screen off for me	13:24
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yacc	lcuk, ah, I see, I shouldn't use the N900 to surf on top of being a modem, so I'll finish that and switch to the PC, and everything will be fine :)	13:25
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lcuk	yacc, I find I can do most things in any order even using usb	13:27
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lcuk	but I have my screen brightness quite far down (2nd notch)	13:27
SpeedEvil	max notch to one down saves most power	13:28
SpeedEvil	subsequent powersaving is really quite small.	13:29
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yacc	lcuk, well, the N900 seems to have a much nicer battery than my old G1. Even taking in account that the G1 batteries have been used 1-1.5 years already, leaving the G1 in UMTS mode overnight tended to have it drained, while the N900 showed only a tiny dip in the battery state, ...	13:29
yacc	Wonder how well the N900 can detect the state of the battery.	13:29
lcuk	yacc :) at different times and different uses thats happened to people too	13:29
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lcuk	its entirely possible to abuse the available capacity	13:30
yacc	(the G1 battery setup was basically stupid, and based on Android & the kernel doing an educated guess based on usage how your battery is)	13:30
lcuk	and it can detect charge quite well	13:30
yacc	lcuk, it's not my first smartphone.	13:30
lcuk	shhh, some here will tell you the n900 is not a smart phone	13:30
yacc	lcuk, the most embarrassing thing had been always the E61 phones where me and my wife had exactly the same phone. Mine always drained in under a day, hers kept for a week, ...	13:31
yacc	lcuk, oh, it's a smartphone as it should be, ..	13:31
lcuk	:) me and tracy notice the same things with our n900s	13:31
lcuk	tho hers is more an angrybirds phone	13:31
yacc	lcuk, it's basically an ARM based Debian-derived laptop in a form factor that makes it useable as a mobile phone, ...	13:32
lcuk	indeed :)	13:33
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lcuk	yacc so what do you use yours for then (apart from phone and internet :P)	13:34
yacc	I wonder, how does one restore the thing after killing the OS on it? I know a former friend of mine managed to overfill the root partition, basically brick the device, and he mentioned that it's was trivial to unbrick, as he said, it seems to be almost completely safe even for crazy users, ...	13:35
yacc	lcuk, well, IM, Email, Ebooks, browser, and when the situation warrents network accesspoint.	13:36
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lcuk	you can download lovingly created and fully tested images of the default OS and eMMC	13:37
yacc	lcuk, the phone needs a data package for all the apps anyway, and I've never seen the joy of paying two data packages so that I have my phone and my USB modem working.	13:37
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yacc	lcuk, and how do I install them when the thing is bricked?	13:37
pexi	i'm thinking of buying a real smart phone because of the calendar sync problems :)	13:37
lcuk	you misuse the term bricked :)	13:37
lcuk	the usb flashing part is very early in the boot sequence and practically impossible to break from the OS itself	13:38
misc--	hi all, is it possible to send sms from the terminal?	13:38
yacc	What tools do I need for that on the host, just to be safe for the future?	13:38
yacc	lcuk, yeah, as I said, the comment of this guy was that his N900 was near unbrickable, and that's absolutely great for a device one wants to play with.	13:39
SpeedEvil	~flashing	13:39
infobot	[flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	13:39
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lcuk	misc--, its easy to do via python, I am not sure if there is a direct dbus call though	13:40
lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS	13:40
misc--	lcuk: ahhh, ok thanks	13:40
lcuk	yacc, lots of work done by a great many people in ensuring the device is as solid and reliable as possible :)	13:41
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yacc	lcuk, yeah, but it's the idea that counts. An G1 with HardSPL installed is quite hard to kill to, but stupid T-Mobile puts a castrated SPL on it by default, so you always that one moment where you need to replace the boot loader, where you brick your device easily, ...	13:43
_\|Nix\|_	X-Fade: Hey! Can you please have a look at libhildon-extras_0.9.6? It's been building the x86 portion for a while. Is it stuck with the X server again? I've made some changes ...	13:45
yacc	lcuk, Nokia OTOH has made it easy and relatively safe.	13:46
* lcuk nods :)		13:47
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yacc	Well, let's be truthful, the G1 was not a bad mobile, but the N900 is clearly superior to it (perhaps with the exception of the touch screen), ...	13:49
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mece	QtWRT is included in Qt4.7, right?	13:56
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mgedmin	DocScrutinizer2++ for the informative overclocking lecture	14:03
mgedmin	does infobot count ++ when it's followed by more text?	14:03
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* Arkenoi watched meego video. fascinating. how did they manage effectively reduce 800x600 screen to 4 lines of text, restoring famous nokia 3210 feel?		14:06
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harbaum	my wifes n900 just lost its usb recepticle :-(	14:07
Hoxzer	:(((	14:08
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mgedmin	another one bites the dust :(	14:09
Hoxzer	my n900 broke my 3rd party charger	14:09
mgedmin	Arkenoi, which video?	14:09
Hoxzer	the usb plug was too strong :(	14:09
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Arkenoi	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S20k1mvL8 this one	14:09
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Stskeeps	malformed video id	14:09
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mgedmin	Arkenoi, "The URL contained a malformed video ID."	14:10
mgedmin	harbaum, you know what to do, right? Nokia Care	14:10
mgedmin	the weak USB socket is a design deficiency	14:10
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Hoxzer	imho it sucks that nokia will not replace those phones.	14:11
Hoxzer	or some of the people had their phones replaced	14:11
Hoxzer	just as mgedmin it is desing flaw	14:11
Hoxzer	the charger should break not the n900	14:11
harbaum	do they actually care? I don't want to send it in just to have them requireing weeks to fix it	14:12
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Arkenoi	oops , http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S20k1mvL8d0	14:14
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mgedmin	harbaum, yesterday people on this channel talked about it	14:16
mgedmin	"weeks to repair" was mentioned as someone's actual experience :(	14:16
mgedmin	but it is covered by the warranty, as far as I understand	14:17
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mgedmin	http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-n900-microusb-defect-and-your-chance-to-do-something/	14:18
harbaum	The Nokia site just ack'ed that it's still under waranty	14:19
mgedmin	http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-Devices/Nokia-responds-to-reports-about-the-N900-micro-usb-port-getting/td-p/629019/highlight/false	14:19
_\|Nix\|_	sigh ... can anyone besides X-Fade have a look at libhildon-extras_0.9.6? It's been building for a while, and I'm afraid it's stuck, and when I re-submitted, that just keeps sitting in the queue ...	14:19
_\|Nix\|_	Please?	14:19
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harbaum	mgedmin: Thanks for the links. This may help to convince certain people that this is covered by waranty	14:38
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rmrfchik	http://pics.livejournal.com/ibigdan/pic/00k1d08h	14:51
mece	rmrfchik, hee	14:51
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psycho_oreos	harbaum, which revision version is your wife's n900?	14:53
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Jaffa	Morning, all	14:55
Jaffa	_\|Nix\|_: Raise a bug.	14:55
_\|Nix\|_	Jaffa: I guess ...	14:55
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jacekowski	my vwindow goto	14:58
jacekowski	ehh	14:58
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_\|Nix\|_	Jaffa: MB#11357	14:58
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\|187\|	guys how long does a charging cycle via usb cable usually take? phone was down to about 20% its charging 3hrs at my office pc already	15:06
\|187\|	that normal ?	15:06
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mgedmin	I think it takes longer to charge from a PC than from a wall socket	15:08
Jartza	sure	15:08
mgedmin	~2 hours for a wall socket, maybe 3, 4 from a PC	15:08
mgedmin	numbers approximate since I never measured	15:08
Jartza	wall charger has more "ooomph"	15:08
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Jartza	meaning more milliamperes, than usb	15:08
mgedmin	the technical term is "current"	15:09
mgedmin	my laptop's fan started making a noise :(	15:09
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ShadowJK	4-5 from a PC sounds about normal I think	15:10
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psycho_oreos	what about powered USB hub? :)	15:13
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mgedmin	same	15:14
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Khertan_	lbt_: any news about the community obs sync ?	15:16
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Khertan_	Morning all !	15:27
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harbaum	psycho_oreos: Dunno. HW rev or what? I don't have the device here	15:33
psycho_oreos	harbaum, ahh ok, its either printed inside the device or the retail packaging itself.. I'm curious to know if that revision is higher or lower than mine	15:34
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joga	hmm...trying to use mobile hotspot (with power kernel installed; says it's started and stuff), but my laptop doesn't seem to be able to pump an ip from it	15:37
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joga	any tips what to check?	15:37
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joga	I can see in iwconfig that it has associated with the n900, shows the essid	15:39
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luke-jr_	joga: it only works with the mobile hotspot kernel	15:44
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joga	luke-jr_, oh, I thought the power kernel is required	15:49
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joga	heh, now that I actually tried using the net with n900 while it's using the hotspot, I have speeds of 0.5-3kB/s with 3g	15:51
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joga	luke-jr_: what's this "mobile hotspot kernel" and where do I get it?	15:57
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Hoxzer	joga: You can download it from repos.	16:03
ieatlint	i've learnt that having a touchscreen makes me try and use regular monitors incorrectly :(	16:04
GAN900	So who's going to justify themselves for a PandaBoard?	16:04
Hoxzer	joga: it's called "Enchanced linux kernel for power users"	16:05
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ieatlint	if i could think of anything to try and sell the pandaboard peoples, i would	16:05
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GAN900	I wonder if anybody has proposed "Porting MeeGo" yet.	16:06
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Hoxzer	eh,? YOu can install development version of meego on n900	16:07
joga	Hoxzer, but that's exactly what I have	16:07
Hoxzer	joga: try uname -r in terminal	16:07
tybollt	gan	16:07
ieatlint	in theory, there is no "porting" of meego to the pandaboard	16:07
joga	Hoxzer: 2.6.28.10power37	16:08
Hoxzer	yes, then the mobile hotspot should work.	16:08
ieatlint	pandaboard has a working kernel, which is 95% of the work to "port meego" to a device	16:08
ieatlint	instead, it's just installing software	16:08
GAN900	ieatlint, yes, but do they know that?	16:08
joga	Hoxzer: it does start the hotspot and I can see it from my laptop, but I can't get an ip	16:08
ieatlint	i damn well hope so :P	16:08
GAN900	ieatlint, and the key phrase there being "in theory".	16:08
Hoxzer	joga: :/ Hmm, you mean your laptop can't get the ip?	16:08
joga	Hoxzer: yes	16:09
GAN900	ieatlint, make the proposal and find out. :D	16:09
ieatlint	yeah, well, i suppose you could sell a meego image for the device	16:09
joga	tried both unsecured and wep	16:09
Hoxzer	joga: and your laptop works with all hotspots (using dhcp) ?	16:09
GAN900	tybollt, yeeeesss?	16:09
ieatlint	partitioned and such with a specific profile setup	16:09
joga	Hoxzer: yeah, had no problems yet	16:09
ieatlint	netbook i guess, as handset and tablet don't fit	16:09
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Hoxzer	joga: try without encryption	16:09
joga	Hoxzer: as I said already, tried it :)	16:09
Hoxzer	:(	16:09
lcuk	GAN900, isnt there an omap4 board video shown running meego already?	16:10
Hoxzer	then I have no more tips for you. Usually works fine with me	16:10
Hoxzer	you can try restarting n900 or laptop	16:10
ieatlint	no idea i have would actually accentuate the pandaboard as a platform, or require any features it has over the beagleboard	16:10
Hoxzer	joga: btw, remember to close all connections before you start mobile hotspot	16:11
joga	Hoxzer: yes, I've done all of those, and now I tried to reinstall mobilehotspot, restart n900, make sure it's not connected, then start hotspot unencrypted, it starts, I can see it from the laptop, but it just gets stucks at obtaining ip	16:12
MohammadAG	lcuk, indeed	16:12
joga	I'm using wicd on the laptop, which has no problems connecting to the other wireless networks	16:12
lcuk	seems to run it very well too from what i can gather	16:13
joga	does n900 support master mode?	16:13
ieatlint	has the price for the pandaboard been announced even?	16:13
Hoxzer	joga: try to login as root and type "route" in n900	16:13
ieatlint	kinda looks like it could replace a number of the soekris uses, if the price is reasonable	16:14
joga	Hoxzer: hotspot is now running, I only have one line: 10.132.128.0 * 255.255.255.0 U 0 0 0 wlan0	16:14
joga	I also tried to manually assign an ip and gateway for my laptop but to no avail	16:15
joga	(chose 10.132.128.2 as ip, as the n900 appeared to be .1)	16:15
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ShadowJK	hm, is there no way to "stream" readings from accelerometer..	16:15
Hoxzer	joga: try "ifconfig"	16:15
joga	ShadowJK, what do you mean "stream"?	16:15
tybollt	GAN900: just aying hi really	16:16
tybollt	:)	16:16
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: See http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-1795.2009.00326.x/abstract	16:16
SpeedEvil	err	16:16
SpeedEvil	not that	16:16
joga	Hoxzer: any specific thing you want to know there? wlan0 is up and has the .1 ip	16:16
GAN900	tybollt, hi. :)	16:16
SpeedEvil	http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Accelerometer is a link to the APIs I think	16:16
Hoxzer	joga: gprs0	16:16
joga	says it hasn't received anything	16:16
joga	gprs0 is down	16:16
SpeedEvil	the hardware does not support streaming mode, the CPU has to poll it	16:16
Hoxzer	joga: it should be up	16:16
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joga	then I guess mobile hotspot screws up :)	16:17
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, yeah it just seems I can poll it at the rate of i2c bus	16:17
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Hoxzer	joga: verify that the "Connection" is specified correctly	16:17
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joga	but I try again: I'll make an internet connection without hotspot once, then disconnect and try it	16:17
joga	Hoxzer: it is, only one choice there	16:17
ShadowJK	I was hoping it'd delay giving reply until a new value is available	16:17
GAN900	lcuk, and what does that mean, exactly? We should all know how things are with getting operating systems running on ARM.	16:17
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: there is I think a flag.	16:17
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: but you poll it at ~400Hz, and it works.	16:17
Hoxzer	joga: for me the N900 reports that there was a problem connecting and then askes for connection	16:17
Corsac	hmhm, is there some kind of synergy client for n900 (using touchscreen and keyboard to control remote box through wifi)	16:18
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Hoxzer	joga: you can try running mobilehotspot in terminal.	16:18
dsg	Corsac: There's a VNC client	16:18
joga	Hoxzer: now hotspot is not running, I made the internet connection and see gprs0 being up. should I now manually disconnect from it and then run hotspot or should hotspot do this for me?	16:18
Hoxzer	hotspot should do it for you	16:18
joga	ok, I will try starting it now then	16:19
Hoxzer	wait	16:19
ShadowJK	6000 samples in 11 seconds, 545.454529/s	16:19
ShadowJK	972 unique, 88.363640/s	16:19
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joga	kay	16:19
Hoxzer	joga: try "mobilehotspot_backend start" in terminal	16:19
joga	apparently fails to insmod nf_conntrack.co	16:19
joga	hmm, maybe as root :)	16:20
Hoxzer	go-ahead	16:20
joga	ok it seemed to have done the tricks to put wlan0 up and stuff	16:20
joga	gprs0 and wlan0 are up	16:21
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: my mistake.	16:21
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joga	still not giving ip with dhcp, it seems	16:21
SpeedEvil	ShadowJK: It can interrupt on new data	16:21
ShadowJK	SpeedEvil, the driver calls sysfs_notify but I don't know how to hook into that :)	16:22
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SpeedEvil	See 7.4	16:22
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SpeedEvil	on the datasheet	16:22
Hoxzer	joga: try the "route" again	16:22
joga	Hoxzer: default thru gprs0, and then there's the wlan0 supnet	16:22
joga	*subnet	16:22
Hoxzer	joga: does it said "default" for gprs0 ?	16:23
joga	yes	16:23
joga	which sounds proper to me	16:23
Hoxzer	yes it is.	16:23
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joga	in iwconfig encryption is off, it's in ad-hoc mode and everything seems normal	16:25
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joga	err...	16:25
joga	I'm seeing a different mac address from my laptop than what is shown in ifconfig wlan0 on the n9000	16:26
joga	*n900	16:26
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joga	that's not normal, right?	16:27
Hoxzer	dunno	16:27
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joga	wlan0 starts like C8:97:9F... and the laptop shows 36:97:64...	16:28
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joga	that one doesn't even seem to be valid	16:29
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joga	oh, well, I think I'll look at this later, have some stuff to do. Thanks for your kind help Hoxzer	16:29
Hoxzer	nope...	16:30
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juk	just reflashed n900, calendar glitching, with internall error, and contacts refuses to read sim sim	16:39
juk	wireless works	16:40
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juk	modest mail app not works	16:44
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juk	contacts from sim still not showing up :(	16:45
juk	modest mail app not works Unable to select server inbox	16:46
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juk	flashed with lates global image	16:46
juk	what's wrong?	16:46
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juk	but i didn't flash external memory	16:47
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juk	who the fuck cares here	16:49
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ShadowJK	If by external memory he meant emmc, then that'd explain why the flashing didn't help :)	16:51
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nocturnal	using the gui installer for the maemo sdk i ran into an error when it was setting up scratchbox targets. i've pasted the last parts of the install log here http://pastebin.com/DH5Majyh	16:53
nocturnal	i've tried running /scratchbox/login manually but it says run sb-menu first, and sb-menu says i'm not allowed to run it. even though my user is in sbox group. i've also tried with root.	16:53
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node808	ahhh sooky sooky yeah boiiiii.....i need dat new look...that fresh fresh...whatchall feel those new momo rims in black...be stunnin them boys	16:55
nocturnal	pardon?	16:56
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node808	oh snap...my bad dog	17:03
node808	i had seent this room..thought it was the momo rims room	17:03
node808	my bad playa	17:03
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GAN900	Stereotype.	17:14
MohammadAG	~seen javispedro	17:14
infobot	javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/council/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 15h 30m 12s ago, saying: 'and instead of backscrolling, I just wasted more bandwidth and a bit of everybody's time. Like I'm doing now!'.	17:14
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DocScrutinizer2	ShadowJK: you sorted your accel readout and notification issues?	17:27
ShadowJK	eh I just wanted to dump it to a file at max rate	17:27
DocScrutinizer2	:nod:	17:27
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DocScrutinizer2	ShadowJK: most natural way to use gmeter is to set a convenient threshold and get a uevent/kevent/knotify or whatever it's called when that threshold is tripped, so you can read out the new value	17:29
DocScrutinizer2	ShadowJK: for high resulution continuous recording I'm not sure if gmeter itself has a mode for triggering an IRQ @ 400Hz, or you simply read out the sysfs node @400/s	17:31
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MohammadAG	~maemosdk	17:33
infobot	from memory, maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	17:33
DocScrutinizer2	(kevent) I tried to find out about how to do that a few days ago, but lost my way in /usr/src/linux/Documentation	17:33
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sivang	~info	17:34
sivang	how can I tell myself about something from the infobot?	17:35
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DocScrutinizer2	~query	17:35
infobot	talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query apt" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)	17:35
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DocScrutinizer2	sivang: help helps a bit about what you can do	17:37
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ferenc	hello, FYI: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo-org-service-break-2010-10-03/	17:38
DocScrutinizer2	listkeys and listvalues are useful cmds to grep in database	17:38
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DocScrutinizer2	~maemo-down is http://maemo.org/news/announcements/maemo-org-service-break-2010-10-03/	17:40
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer2	17:40
*** DocScrutinizer2 is now known as DocScrutinizer		17:40
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Does anyone aside from X-Fade have access to the buildbot? I uploaded libhildon-extras_0.9.6 to the fremantle build queue, and it never finished building. Then, when I tried to upload it again, it got stuck in the queue. I'd need someone to terminate the previous build attempt.	17:40
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: It's probably stuck at the very end because it launches an X server (required for gtk-doc generation) and probably never terminates it.	17:41
flexxxv	hy is the source of the maemo 5 calculator included	17:41
flexxxv	I mean avaiable	17:42
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satmd	infobot: do you notice that '/query apt' is not the correct nick? :p	17:42
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_ : I will check and try to remove it from the queue, but I am not so familiar with the build infra.	17:42
infobot	yes, I notice that '/query apt' is not the correct nick? :p.	17:42
satmd	lol.	17:43
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: (kevents) FSO is using that mechanism a lot, so you should be able to spot examples in python and vala there	17:43
DocScrutinizer	ShadowJK: (on FR kernel notifies FSO fsodeviced(?) about battery charging state changes, which in turn switch notification LED via yaml rules)	17:45
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DocScrutinizer	satmd: are you sure?	17:46
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* DocScrutinizer suggests a /whois apt		17:47
DocScrutinizer	also /whois ibot	17:47
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satmd	:P	17:48
satmd	^- that's what she said	17:48
DocScrutinizer	~seen ibot	17:49
infobot	ibot is currently on #gsoc (14d 21h 17m 41s) #bzflag (14d 21h 17m 41s) ##bspress (14d 21h 17m 41s) #brlcad (14d 21h 17m 41s) #handhelds (14d 21h 17m 41s) #utah (14d 21h 17m 41s) #oe (14d 21h 17m 41s) #zaurus (14d 21h 17m 41s) #gllug (14d 21h 17m 41s) #pillbox (14d 21h 17m 41s) #arm-netbook (14d 21h 17m 41s) #handhelds-gpe (14d 21h 17m 41s) #uphpu (14d ...	17:49
DocScrutinizer	~seen apt	17:49
infobot	apt is currently on #debian (15d 4h 44m 14s) ##icf (15d 4h 44m 14s) #elive (15d 4h 44m 14s) #htc-linux (15d 4h 44m 14s) #kde (15d 4h 44m 14s) #wowroster (15d 4h 44m 14s) #openmoko (15d 4h 44m 14s) #slug (15d 4h 44m 14s) #lugwv (15d 4h 44m 14s) #openmoko-cdevel (15d 4h 44m 14s) #debian-france (15d 4h 44m 14s) #debianppc (15d 4h 44m 14s) #linuxpakistan (15d ...	17:49
DocScrutinizer	~seen infobot	17:49
infobot	infobot is currently on #utos (15d 4h 14m 32s) #asterisk-doc (15d 4h 14m 32s) ##t42 (15d 4h 14m 32s) #fredlug (15d 4h 14m 32s) #maemo (15d 4h 14m 32s) ##ols (15d 4h 14m 32s) #flyspray (15d 4h 14m 32s) #asterisk-dev (15d 4h 14m 32s) #webos-internals (15d 4h 14m 32s) #opensimpad.org (15d 4h 14m 32s) #asterisk (15d 4h 14m 32s) #byumug (15d 4h 14m 32s) ...	17:49
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DocScrutinizer	apt: hi!	17:53
apt	hi	17:53
DocScrutinizer	~status	17:53
apt	Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 101 modifications, 1563 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 760 commands. I have been awake for 15d 4h 54m 56s this session, and currently reference 117310 factoids. I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5077.74/127.37 child 0/0	17:53
merlin1991	apt help	17:54
merlin1991	apt, info	17:54
merlin1991	hm	17:54
* merlin1991 doesn't know the apt bot		17:54
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		17:54
ShadowJK	I suspect it needs beer	17:54
*** apt was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)		17:54
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer		17:55
DocScrutinizer	~status	17:55
infobot	Since Thu Sep 16 09:58:38 2010, there have been 101 modifications, 1563 questions, 0 dunnos, 0 morons and 761 commands. I have been awake for 15d 4h 57m this session, and currently reference 117310 factoids. I'm using about 38392 kB of memory. With 0 active forks. Process time user/system 5078.35/127.45 child 0/0	17:55
ilius	how to see pidgin's body list window?	17:55
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: thanks	17:59
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sivang	~flashing	18:00
infobot	flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:00
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Dunno what you (or anyone else) did, but libhildon-extras1 seems to be gone from the queue ... dunno if it's building now, or if it got simply yanked, but I'll wait. Thanks a lot!	18:00
sivang	thanks infobot	18:00
DocScrutinizer	~botsnack	18:00
infobot	:), DocScrutinizer	18:00
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: it's building, but I am afraid that the build git stuck again.	18:00
ferenc	s/git/got	18:01
sivang	the topic still mentioned extras is hosed, is that so?	18:01
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Damn!	18:01
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: seems IT is a somewhat deterministic thing	18:02
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: OK. I'll revert the X portion to what we had in 0.9.5 ...	18:02
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Can you please kill it again?	18:02
DocScrutinizer	sivang: I heard no complains last 24h, so maybe not	18:02
sivang	okey	18:02
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I wish I could kill these things from here, but it seems that, if not all processes quit, the build gets stuck ...	18:03
DocScrutinizer	sivang: otoh odds are nobody bothers to mention it's still broken for some of the servers, as the fact and a workaround is known :-P	18:03
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: I am looking for the build log to get more clue..	18:04
sivang	DocScrutinizer: ah, really? The workaround being using a community member that mirrors the repo somewhere? :)	18:04
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: you got access to the reporsitory server farm?	18:04
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: bother to click the URL mentioned in topic	18:05
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I launch a copy of Xvfb using a script called run-xvfb.sh which I may not be killing ...	18:05
DocScrutinizer	the workaround is to resolve repository.maemo.org to an IP of a good server	18:05
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sivang	yes, read this now- thanks again, I should have more trust in channel's topic pastebin'd instructios :)	18:06
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: The problem is that I cannot reproduce this problem in my own scratchbox.	18:06
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ferenc	DocScrutinizer: I have access to the origin server, from where content is being fetched by the caches. what's the problem?	18:06
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the buildbot collects all output into the file, and if not all processes quit, the file is never closed.	18:07
DocScrutinizer	some of the caches had a broken *.gzip file	18:07
DocScrutinizer	not all but only some of them	18:07
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I remember once reproducing this hangage by running dpkg-buildpackage > filename 2>&1, but it's not working now ...	18:07
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: see /topic	18:08
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I wish it posted the log of the hangage after you kill it, so I can compare it with my own scratchbox's output, to tell what the difference is.	18:10
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: If it's stuck, can you please kill it one more time, and I'll revert to the previoius version and try again. If it gets stuck, I don't mind waiting till Monday if you decide to call it a day.	18:12
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: I found the build logs, but see no errors there. Strange. I kill the processes again.	18:13
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Thanks!	18:13
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: see http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-09-30.log.html#t2010-09-30T02:10:52 until / and http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2010-09-30.log.html#t2010-09-30T02:26:57	18:13
_\|Nix\|_	I'll revert then.	18:13
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DocScrutinizer	_\|Nix\|_: starting X on a buildhost? sounds weird	18:15
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Just checking: You do know that the problem is only happening on the i38 side, right? I see no logs from i386 here: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libhildon-extras_0.9.6/	18:15
_\|Nix\|_	DocScrutinizer: Necessary for proper gtk-doc generation.	18:15
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: oops. let me check the i386 logs then.	18:15
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ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: no sign of the i386 build here on the server :(	18:16
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ferenc	DocScrutinizer: do you refer to the broken Packages file in the extras repo?	18:18
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DocScrutinizer	yes	18:18
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DocScrutinizer	ferenc: diablo was broken as well, see URLs above	18:19
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Yeah ... weirdness ... I think the file never gets created, because all processes don't qui.	18:20
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ferenc	DocScrutinizer: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz looks good to me.	18:21
ferenc	DocScrutinizer: same for fremantle.	18:22
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DocScrutinizer	ferenc: it was broken only on some of the akamai servers of the server farm. Worked for one IP while it failed for another	18:22
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ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: from the x86 build logs:	18:23
ferenc	test -x debian/rules	18:23
ferenc	mkdir -p "."	18:23
ferenc	Starting X server ...	18:23
ferenc	kill: usage: kill [-s sigspec \| -n signum \| -sigspec] [pid \| job]... or kill -l [sigspec]	18:23
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MohammadAG	ferenc, do you have access to the packages on the repos?	18:23
DocScrutinizer	depending on where you get redirected to by the load balancing you either encountered problems or not	18:23
MohammadAG	I want to remove a non-free package	18:23
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: You dound it ...	18:23
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Nice.	18:23
ferenc	DocScrutinizer: yes, unfortunately I can not clean the caches.	18:24
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Yeah, that's OK, as long as it kills it at the end.	18:24
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: It starts the X server twice and should kill it once at the end.	18:24
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Look at the i386 build log for libhidon-extras_0.9.5	18:24
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ferenc	MohammadAG: I can remove it from our origin server, but not from the caches.	18:24
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: ... for comparison.	18:24
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: ok. I guess it will just "fix itself" on next rsync. Would be interesting to have a look into the cause of it	18:24
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: BTW: I reverted the X server related changes and I'm trying again ... cross fingers	18:25
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ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: ok	18:25
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: My original motivation for making changes to the way I run the X server was the fact that when I first submitted 0.9.6, it failed to start an X server at :2 because one was already running	18:26
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ferenc	DocScrutinizer: I am not sure if Akamai uses rsync, otherwise it would have been fixed already :)	18:26
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: My X server killing method may not work.	18:26
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: kill -9 $(pidof Xvfb)	18:26
DocScrutinizer	:nod: rsync was more like $RSYNC	18:27
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: yeah, I think this is the problem.	18:27
MohammadAG	ferenc, can you remove psfreedom from non-free?	18:27
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: But this worked with 0.9.5 ...	18:27
ferenc	MohammadAG: yes. hold on.	18:28
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: I suspect it happened when $RSYNC got started in 'a wrong moment'	18:28
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: BTW: The armel portion of the new submission has completed.	18:28
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: I'm expecting the i38 portion to fail because of an already-running server ... unless you killed it :)	18:28
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: It built!	18:29
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Can you please check if there are any Xvfb instances still running?	18:29
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: ... now that the build has completed.	18:29
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: There are no Xvfb instances.	18:30
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ferenc	MohammadAG: fremantle non-free?	18:30
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Cool. So, it worked.	18:31
MohammadAG	ferenc, yep	18:31
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Next time, if my build fails because of a X server running on the same DISPLAY as the one I'm trying to start (:2), I'll simply try to re-submit. In no case will I mess with this setup though, I don't think, because it works, as long as no server is running on :2.	18:32
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Or, maybe, if a server is already running on :2, I should just use it, instead of trying to start one of my own.	18:33
dRbiG	hmm, does anyone else share my view that larger python scripts consist in 40% of string 'self.'? ;D	18:33
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: In any case, thanks a lot for your help!	18:33
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: I did not see a new build starting after I killed the build for the 2nd time. So I am not sure if this build is ok. :(	18:33
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_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/libhildon-extras_0.9.6/	18:34
ferenc	MohammadAG: I might be blind, but I can't find psfreedom :(	18:34
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: All signs point to it being OK.	18:34
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: The build doesn't take very long ... unless it gets stuck, of course :)	18:34
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: ok, good. the build must have been fast.	18:34
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: either block $RSYNC to the caches (in whatever way that can be done), or make sure the master always has a consistent image to sync to the caches, so no races occur that sync a half done image that's "build in progress" - my 2 cent	18:35
_\|Nix\|_	ferenc: Yep :) Thanks a lot!	18:35
ferenc	_\|Nix\|_: you are welcome!	18:35
MohammadAG	ferenc, http://maemo.org/packages/view/psfreedom/	18:36
DocScrutinizer	s/block/during build block/	18:36
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: ferenc: either during build block $RSYNC to the caches (in whatever way that can be done), or make sure the master always has a consistent image to sync to the caches, so no races occur that sync a half done image that's "build in progress" - my 2 cent	18:36
ferenc	MohammadAG: ah, it is in extras-devel. ok. removed it.	18:37
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MohammadAG	ferenc, ty :)	18:37
ferenc	MohammadAG: no	18:38
ferenc	MohammadAG: np, i meant :)	18:38
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ferenc	DocScrutinizer: Akamai fetches stuff that has been built. I know what went wrong last time. We were testing a new export control feature and I enabled debugging. During that time Akamai refreshed its content and received a "wrong" Packages file. After the tests Tero cleaned the caches, but some crap remained there :(	18:40
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DocScrutinizer	ferenc: fine :-D problem cause identified, problem solved. Thanks a lot	18:41
MohammadAG	ferenc, did you just remove all of psfreedom? lol	18:42
ferenc	DocScrutinizer: I hope we can negotiate access to the cache web ui, so such problems can be cured faster.	18:42
ferenc	MohammadAG: yes, from non-free. You asked: "can you remove psfreedom from non-free?"	18:43
MohammadAG	yeah, but it's not free	18:43
DocScrutinizer	ferenc: I assume caches should all have received their good sync now?	18:43
MohammadAG	it's not in free*	18:43
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MohammadAG	http://maemo.org/packages/view/psfreedom/	18:43
ferenc	DocScrutinizer: yes, hopefully.	18:44
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer		18:44
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ \| http://maemo.nokia.com/ \| Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council \| http://mxr.maemo.org/ \| http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog \| Skype is INCLUDED in the N900. Unless you live in India, that is. \| Also this is #maemo, NOT #nitdroid"		18:44
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ferenc	MohammadAG: sorry, I lost you. psfreedom is no longer in fremantle-1.3 / extras-devel / non-free section.	18:45
satmd	1.3?	18:45
ferenc	MohammadAG: it has also been removed from the Packages tool itself.	18:45
ferenc	satmd: well, the latest fremantle release..	18:46
satmd	mhm ok	18:46
MohammadAG	ferenc, why?	18:46
MohammadAG	0.3-4 was in free	18:47
ferenc	MohammadAG: ok, I am sorry. I will revert it.	18:47
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DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: just upload it again?	18:47
DocScrutinizer	nm	18:48
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MohammadAG	sigh, can you add it back to the packages tool?	18:48
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* sivang dar's the content of the phone that was backed up to an mSD before "The Big Reflash"		18:50
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sivang	I guess I am a little bit paranoid when it comes to back ups	18:51
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Scelt	~flash	18:52
infobot	rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	18:52
DocScrutinizer	sivang: ??	18:52
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sivang	Scelt: yes yes, I am well aware of that, I just commencted about backing up partition contents before	18:53
sivang	DocScrutinizer: I didn't satisfy with the internal backup program	18:53
Scelt	sivang: oh, no. I needed the flashing url myself :]	18:53
DocScrutinizer	fair enough	18:53
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MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I did, it was rejected :P	18:53
DocScrutinizer	:P	18:54
* sivang still carries the sysadmin mindset to other disciplines		18:54
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DocScrutinizer	sivang: keep that habit	18:54
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: yeah, it is always to be safe than sorry :-[	18:54
sivang	:-p	18:54
sivang	*better	18:54
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DocScrutinizer	except sometimes in strictly social activities, where such mindset isn't alway appreciated :-P	18:55
ferenc	MohammadAG: do you need this instance kept: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_non-free_armel/psfreedom/0.3/	18:55
sivang	DocScrutinizer: hehe, true	18:55
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MohammadAG	ferenc, that's the one I wanted you to remove	18:56
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sivang	DocScrutinizer: heh	18:56
ferenc	MohammadAG: The Packages web UI and the repo are 2 different things. I removed the package from the repo and then I also deleted the "psfreedom" entry from the Packages catalog.	18:57
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ferenc	MohammadAG: the latter one was restored, but I can clean up the non-free "package instance" from there too.	18:57
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MohammadAG	ferenc, thanks :)	19:11
MohammadAG	ferenc, you can remove the non-free instance	19:12
ferenc	MohammadAG: yes, I will try..	19:12
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GAN900	Anybody recommend a registrar these days?	19:14
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ferenc	MohammadAG: done.	19:14
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MohammadAG	thanks	19:14
ferenc	MohammadAG: welcome	19:15
slonopotamus	evening, ladies and gentlemen	19:15
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RST38h	good evening,heffalumpus	19:23
slonopotamus	:P	19:24
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slonopotamus	meh, can't find any traces on controlling wifi psm :/	19:25
MohammadAG	any DSLR experts?	19:26
slonopotamus	and wtf is that post by Teemu Harju on t.m.o?	19:26
slonopotamus	err, on maemo planet	19:26
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frals	slonopotamus: link?	19:29
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RST38h	Hmm, installing Mohammad'sSSU packages broke apt-get	19:32
slonopotamus	frals: oh, it was removed already. i got it via rss.	19:32
RST38h	It now thinks that the system is broken as mp-fremantle-generic-pr has unsatisfied dependencies	19:32
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frals	slonopotamus: what was it?	19:32
MohammadAG	RST38h, dpkg -r it and install it again	19:33
MohammadAG	unfortunately, 6-1 > 7, or that's what apt thinks	19:34
* slonopotamus can't paste unicode into maemo xchat... wtf		19:34
MohammadAG	no, you can't paste more than one line	19:35
slonopotamus	i didn't	19:35
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slonopotamus	oh, k, some weird symbol	19:36
slonopotamus	that post was titled "次のエクシオで名誉挽回"	19:36
RST38h	ah	19:36
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slonopotamus	and here's full contents: http://dpaste.org/bVhM/	19:36
merlin1991	lol	19:36
slonopotamus	i have no idea what that means	19:36
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RST38h	Mohammad: You mean I should install one from your repo?	19:37
MohammadAG	yeah, version maemo7	19:38
RST38h	hmmm ok	19:38
MohammadAG	apt-get install mp-fremantle-generic-pr=10.2010.19-1maemo7	19:39
merlin1991	ah MohammadAG hearing about your repo all the time but never saw an url, gimme! :D	19:39
MohammadAG	it will say downgrading, but it's actually upgrading	19:39
MohammadAG	sometimes apt confuses me	19:39
MohammadAG	#maemo-ssu, if you can test the .install file I'd be grateful :)	19:40
RST38h	hm ok	19:41
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RST38h	Interesting,installing mp-fremantle-generic-pr for some reason keeps back libsdl-mixer1.2 perl-base	19:43
merlin1991	it keeps that back on my phone too	19:44
merlin1991	but I don't have the ssu enabled yet	19:44
MohammadAG	RST38h, apt-get install perl-base	19:44
MohammadAG	don't touch the sdl package	19:44
MohammadAG	the perl-base package was updated by Nokia (thanks X-Fade)	19:45
MohammadAG	the sdl package is a package in -devel which breaks your metapackage, idk who uploaded	19:45
MohammadAG	it	19:45
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jacktheripper	is it possible to dump microphone input to the FM transmitter on the N900 ?	19:47
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RST38h	Mohammad: scary	19:47
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MohammadAG	jacktheripper, just dump microphone input anywhere, then start the FM transmitter	19:49
MohammadAG	idk what node the mic is in /dev	19:49
RST38h	apt-get install perl-base tells it is going to remove the mp-fremantle-generic-pr and a whole bunch of maemo5 core packages	19:49
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jacktheripper	umm what do you mean by dumping it anywhere ? I want it live not recorded if that's what you meant.	19:50
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jacktheripper	can I just dd mic input into radio0 ?	19:52
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lcuk	jacktheripper, try it?	19:53
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jacktheripper	okay	19:53
lcuk	chances are you will hear SNFGFKUESNGESUGHDAT.KSHFRIUENRKUNHAINHESAFKJre KIND NOISES	19:53
lcuk	but IDK	19:53
MohammadAG	RST38h, then ignore it	19:55
SpeedEvil	jacktheripper: no, it's horribly more complex than that.	19:55
SpeedEvil	Radio0 is not a sound device	19:55
SpeedEvil	you need to convince pulseaudio to do it.	19:56
SpeedEvil	It may be possible to use sox to do this.	19:56
sivang	MohammadAG: maybe it'd be better to provide each package upgrade separately ?	19:56
sivang	SpeedEvil: is Radio0 an pulseaudio "sink" that has it's protocl/API for accessing and not plain dev node?	19:57
MohammadAG	no	19:57
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sivang	MohammadAG: why not? to you need to authenticate the whole package (is it a meta package btw?) for HAM to accept it?	19:57
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MohammadAG	it uses a fake mp-fremantle-generic-pr package	19:59
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MohammadAG	but no, if you want separate packages remove the existing metapackage	19:59
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sivang	MohammadAG: so the meta package exists in purpose to not allow you to individually upgrade some of the core componenets and still have the nokia package in?	20:00
SpeedEvil	radio0 has nothing whatsoever to do with audio	20:00
SpeedEvil	it's just a control node	20:00
sivang	SpeedEvil: ah, so to enable/disable	20:00
SpeedEvil	yes, and tune, and ...	20:00
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sivang	SpeedEvil: so like to choose the transmitting frequency ?	20:00
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MohammadAG	<jacktheripper> umm what do you mean by dumping it anywhere ? I want it live not recorded if that's what you meant.	20:01
MohammadAG	I meant you don't have to address the FM transmitter directly, just find a way to play mic input through speaker output	20:01
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RST38h	MohammadAG: Basically, removing the mp-*-pr thing automatically suggests removal of pretty important system packacges like rtcom stuff	20:01
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RST38h	MohammadAG: So, I guess, living without any mp-*-pr at all is not a good idea	20:01
MohammadAG	no, it shouldn't	20:02
MohammadAG	I lived without it for a month or two actually :)	20:02
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Khertan	Hi again	20:05
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RST38h	MohammadAG: I hope you did not do apt-get autoremove during that time :)	20:05
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Khertan	I got strange charging problem since three night with wall charger on my n900	20:06
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Khertan	the two first time the n900 was powered so i think that it s come from process eating cpuj	20:07
Khertan	but this night i shut it down and in the morning it was only charged at 40% when i power up	20:07
Khertan	so more than when it s start to charge but less than it should be after 6 hours of charge	20:08
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Khertan	could it be the charger which is defect	20:08
Khertan	?	20:08
Khertan	but i see the charging icon when i plug it in the n900	20:08
Khertan	this is kinda strange, isn t it ?	20:09
RST38h	Electronic Arts and developer Danger Close have bowed to pressure and announced that the Taliban side would simply be referred to as "opposing force."	20:09
RST38h	Medal of Honor would allow players to take the role of Taliban forces in multiplayer games, causing no small amount of consternation among political groups and military supporters.	20:09
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RST38h	Khertan: I had two N900s (one a developer unit) fail to go into charging mode during the night, for unknown reason	20:09
RST38h	Khertan: Might have somethingto do with voltage spikes in the outlet, dunno	20:10
Khertan	rst38h: it will be a borring game : run ... run ... run ... explode with the bomb	20:10
RST38h	Khertan: Nah, talibs are actually more lively than that	20:11
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stef_204	hi, does anyone know if there is a way so that the email client in maemo on n900 does NOT dowload all attachments when checking for emails (IMAP)?	20:11
GAN900	RST38h, saw that a few times on my proto.	20:11
Khertan	RST38h : hum maybe but the electronic alarm haven t lost his datetime	20:11
GAN900	Obnoxious when the phone is dead leaving the house.	20:11
* sivang -> (out, "be back later")		20:12
RST38h	I know for sure it is not related to the N900 hw	20:12
RST38h	Because TWO of them could not do the same thing in a row	20:12
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Khertan	RST38h, but yes it s possible has we have many electricals problem on the electrical network many out of power every day. And when i start electrical device i can see light blinking	20:14
RST38h	shit, something installed python again =(	20:14
RST38h	Khertan: If you can get an old voltage stabilizer, get one	20:14
RST38h	Khertan: Or a UPS, I guess, will do the same thing	20:15
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SpeedEvil	I have a ferroresonant power conditioner.	20:16
RST38h	How do I check who depends on a given package? =)	20:16
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RST38h	Your next Nokia device: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/07/wp7main1.jpg	20:17
* RST38h hides		20:17
rdesfo	is there a perl6 version that works with nokia's n900?	20:17
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Khertan_	hum ups will beep during the night in the room	20:19
Khertan_	my wife will be not happy	20:19
Khertan_	:)	20:19
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SpeedEvil	Place ape over beeper.	20:21
SpeedEvil	tape	20:21
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Khertan__	grrr third deconnection	20:23
Khertan__	~ping	20:24
infobot	~pong	20:24
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nocturnal	using the gui installer for the maemo sdk i ran into an error when it was setting up scratchbox targets. i've pasted the last parts of the install log here http://pastebin.com/DH5Majyh	20:25
nocturnal	i've tried running /scratchbox/login manually but it says run sb-menu first, and sb-menu says i'm not allowed to run it. even though my user is in sbox group. i've also tried with root.	20:25
lcuk	nocturnal, did you try reading the troubleshooting guide and specifically about vdso?	20:27
nocturnal	no i did not, thank you lcuk	20:27
lcuk	nocturnal, I googled the first error	20:28
lcuk	something you could have done ;)	20:28
lcuk	http://suppressingfire.livejournal.com/35277.html	20:28
nocturnal	very nice of you =)	20:29
lcuk	hope it fixes it anyway :P	20:29
nocturnal	thanks	20:29
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RST38h	Khertan: Just move somewhere with stable power, dammit~! B)	20:34
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dRbiG	anyone here got some experience with gtk(+) programming?	20:40
dRbiG	i need a widget to be hidden _and_ not to be included in the size calculation of the container and i have currently no idea how to do it :)	20:40
dRbiG	or i'm just getting the impression that the hidden widget is still used for the calculations	20:41
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DrIDK	Can somebody help me to test something : try to open http://thecorpo.fr/sacha/stream2.mpeg from your brother	20:42
_llll_	mt brother's on holiday	20:43
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jacktheripper	why does 'cat /dev/kmem' crash the device here ?	20:47
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SpeedEvil	unsure.	20:50
SpeedEvil	I tried that ages ago, and it did	20:50
nocturnal	i'm seeing a lot about debian x64 being unsupported with the SDK. is this serious? should i maybe reinstall with just 32-bit?	20:50
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nocturnal	meh i'll give it another shot now that i disabled vdso	20:52
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GAN900	Weather starts dipping into the 80s and it feels like winter.	20:58
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* kirma has learned that mr. jaaksi is leaving today :I		20:58
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pupnik_	what was he responsible-for?	21:00
Stskeeps	kirma: :O	21:00
Stskeeps	kirma: [citation needed]	21:00
pupnik_	i find the explosion of arm-based portables mysterious, looking at n810... n900... somehow missed the wave	21:00
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pupnik_	how did that happen?	21:01
RST38h	Epic, definitely epic: http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/30/nokia-n8-vs-iphone-4-camera-showdown/?utm_source=engadget&utm_medium=twitter	21:01
kirma	I can't give citations. consider it a rumor.	21:01
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh :(	21:01
RST38h	(and yes, few people understand that "overprocessed"!="better")	21:01
Stskeeps	kirma: please let the replacement -not- be someone from MS..	21:02
Stskeeps	:P	21:02
juk	how to emulate	21:02
kirma	and... I'm not a nokia employee, nor employee of a subsidiary or other company in direct interaction with nokia	21:02
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RST38h	Jaaksi gone?	21:03
RST38h	Ohhoho, more Changes are coming	21:03
juk	help	21:03
tybollt	RST38h: jaaksi gone? why?	21:03
kirma	I really hope for a proper verification for this word-of-mouth	21:03
kirma	too...	21:03
RST38h	kirma: URL or it didn'thappen.	21:04
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kirma	then it didn't	21:04
juk	how to emulate using Xephyr?	21:05
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh :(	21:05
MohammadAG	~maemosdk	21:05
infobot	methinks maemosdk is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation	21:05
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juk	thanks infobot	21:06
tybollt	~slap juk	21:08
* infobot slaps juk, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!		21:08
pupnik_	ty RST38h	21:09
juk	infobot, it's kind of welcome, i get it	21:09
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tybollt	~kill juk	21:10
* infobot shoots a hyper-charged positrino gun at juk		21:10
juk	~headshot juk	21:11
* infobot shoots juk in the head		21:11
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juk	~blood juk	21:11
juk	~bleeding juk	21:12
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juk	MohammadAG: I did everything by instructions why Im missing that af-sb-init.sh?	21:20
juk	anyone have one, would share content?	21:20
MohammadAG	nokia-binaries?	21:20
juk	yes	21:20
juk	by imea i got link added to list updated ...	21:21
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juk	and replacing symlinks by dir is outdated info, it is already dirs	21:22
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juk	tybollt: im sorry i meant no offence, emotions	21:23
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tybollt	juk: :)	21:25
RST38h	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2tpSCVVujc	21:26
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RST38h	Sweat dreams.	21:26
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juk	RST38h: im not allowed to watch youtube	21:27
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RST38h	And?	21:28
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juk	RST38h: do you know what in af-sb-init.sh	21:29
RST38h	some shell code?	21:29
juk	RST38h: exactly	21:29
juk	RST38h: i need it, shortly	21:30
RST38h	And?	21:30
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juk	RST38h: i assume you don't have it, so have I nice day	21:31
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johnsq	Hi	21:32
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GAN900	RST38h, you said Jaaksi is leaving? eg	21:34
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RST38h	GAN: not me, some other guy	21:34
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh :(	21:34
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RST38h	GAN: Said he heard it, no URL though	21:34
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RST38h	GAN: But there is a cute video of a living electroturd devouring an iPhone at the above URL, to make you forget =)	21:35
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TiagoTiago	hi	21:39
TiagoTiago	my photo gallery is broken :(	21:39
TiagoTiago	it says operation failed and says there are no images	21:40
TiagoTiago	hm, the builtin media player also isn't finding anything	21:40
SpeedEvil	reboot	21:41
TiagoTiago	already did	21:41
TiagoTiago	hm, rootfs got zero bytes free....	21:42
SpeedEvil	rm -rf /	21:42
SpeedEvil	(will break your device more)	21:42
TiagoTiago	lol	21:42
kirma	I said... the leaving part. but consider it a rumor slipped out from regular intoxicated finns on a friday night. :I	21:42
RST38h	kirma: Go back there, bring 'em more booze!	21:43
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, please give me, who have got one	21:43
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, if you got one, pastebin output: cat `which af-sb-init.sh` from your scratchbox	21:45
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, if you got one, pastebin output: cat `which af-sb-init.sh` from your scratchbox	21:46
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Stskeeps	..	21:47
juk	so I installed, scratchbox following http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, if you got one, pastebin output: cat `which af-sb-init.sh` from your scratchbox	21:47
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GAN900	kirma, so I should source you when I write it up for next week's mwkn? g	21:48
RST38h		21:49
juk	so I installed scratchbox, following: http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, if you got one, pastebin output: cat `which af-sb-init.sh` from your scratchbox	21:49
RST38h	Somebody, help that juk guy, he is getting really annoying now.	21:50
tybollt	GAN900: 'some dude on IRC said that..."	21:50
juk	RST38h: no, im cool, just reformarting...	21:50
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RST38h	GAN900: Just source Eldar Murtazin, nobody will say a word at that =)	21:50
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GAN900	Ha	21:53
GAN900	Well, clearly if Jaaksi's on his way out, they must've signed a deal with Darius.	21:54
GAN900	He's got his think tank.	21:54
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RST38h	His think tank is filled up with nuts up to the rim.	21:56
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lcuk	juk, why didnt you follow the official scratchbox installation instructions or use the GUI installer that makes it trivial?	21:57
jacktheripper	found that FM transmitter routes all the audio automatically to FM, so I just have to route mic input to audio output. Can I do THAT, with dd ?	21:58
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juk	so I installed scratchbox, following: http://dartarrow.net/maemo-sdk-installation-on-linux/233 12 step failed i don't have af-sb-init.sh, if you got one, pastebin output: cat `which af-sb-init.sh` from your scratchbox	22:00
juk	gives command: Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac -kb &	22:00
MohammadAG	<jacktheripper> found that FM transmitter routes all the audio automatically to FM, so I just have to route mic input to audio output. Can I do THAT, with dd ?	22:01
juk	Unrecognized option: -kb	22:01
MohammadAG	not sure about dd, but I told you that about 2 hours ago :P	22:01
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juk	please someone edit wiki	22:01
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MohammadAG	juk, take out -kb	22:02
MohammadAG	you're probably on Ubuntu 10.04	22:02
jacktheripper	damn, didn't notice :/	22:02
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jacktheripper	sorry for that :D	22:02
juk	MohammadAG: yes, 9 days remaining to 10.10	22:03
TiagoTiago	gotta go, cya	22:03
gregoa	juk: my /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh --> http://paste.debian.net/92766/	22:03
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MohammadAG	juk, I'm on 10.10, but that's not the point, the Xephyr package on 10.04+ doesn't have the -kb option	22:04
MohammadAG	so just hit ALT+F2	22:04
MohammadAG	paste Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 800x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac	22:04
MohammadAG	hit ok	22:04
MohammadAG	or run, whatever	22:04
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juk	gregoa: god bless you kind man, could you also pastebin: /etc/osso-af-init/af-defines.sh	22:08
juk	MohammadAG: thanks	22:09
gregoa	juk: sure --> http://paste.debian.net/92767/	22:09
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juk	My God help you in everything you doing, last thing:	22:19
juk	AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs' not found	22:19
juk	AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/keyboard.defs' not found	22:19
juk	AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/sdl.defs' not found	22:19
juk	gregoa: if it makes sense, i dont know how many, else	22:21
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gregoa	juk: here we are (all 3): http://paste.debian.net/92769/	22:22
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ikke-t	hi, i'm having problems getting stacked windows working on my test app	22:23
ikke-t	is there any limitations for using them?	22:23
ikke-t	i made three widgets, and tried to obey the example, but failed getting them appear as stacked window	22:24
pronto	anyone know how to get a self timer working for the n900?	22:24
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opdf2	ANyone have a simliar problem of Call Notify always saying I have 5+ missed SMS when i only have one?	22:27
Funnyface	do you know if the performance of wimax is comparable to DSL? or is it just about as sheite as UMTS/HSDPA?	22:27
Funnyface	packet loss and latency wise	22:27
Surfa	depends	22:28
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ShadowJK	packet loss depends on signal	22:28
ShadowJK	I have about 30 - 50ms latency, consistently	22:28
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ShadowJK	(on UMTS/HSDPA your first pings take 1000ms before it starts becoming reasonable)	22:29
ShadowJK	Then again I have a 30cm fixed dish in a tower in my backyard, pointing at the base station 500m away.	22:30
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Surfa	but is wimax really alive somewhere? :)	22:31
RST38h	Yes	22:31
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ShadowJK	it's filling the adsl/umts notspot here.	22:32
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juk	gregoa: May God protect you from whole the trobles of life, thank you!	22:35
gregoa	juk: you're welcome	22:36
juk	MohammadAG: I got this output when run af-sb-init.sh, looks like bug: http://paste.debian.net/92771/ help	22:36
MohammadAG	sb-conf select FREMANTLE_X86	22:37
juk	and?	22:39
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juk	<< Startup Xephyr, with the x86 targets pointing the output to it >> what that suppose to mean 12 step dartarrow.net	22:40
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nocturnal	http://i.imgur.com/A7C2K.jpg finally got the sdk working! thanks for all the help you guys who helped me figure out vdso32.	22:44
juk	nocturnal: mac?	22:46
nocturnal	yes	22:48
nocturnal	i use vmware fusion to run linux	22:48
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juk	MohammadAG: http://paste.debian.net/92777/	22:52
lcuk	nocturnal, :)	22:52
juk	nocturnal: why no app panel?	22:52
MohammadAG	juk, echo $DISPLAY	22:52
nocturnal	the dock you mean. i think it's worthless when you have spotlight. unfortunately Adolf Jobs hard coded it into the desktop so turning it off disables like 4 other services and makes the desktop unusable.	22:53
nocturnal	so it's only hidden to the side	22:53
juk	MohammadAG: [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > echo $DISPLAY	22:53
juk	:2	22:53
MohammadAG	are you sure you have nokia-binaries installed?	22:54
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ShadowJK	nocturnal, why does your nick look completely unknown to me on freenode, but when I see your own irc window it looks familiar	22:55
juk	MohammadAG: how comes, I am apologising, please, i din't realise, apparently not [:shame:]	22:55
MohammadAG	lol	22:55
nocturnal	ShadowJK: no idea, i've been on freenode since like 2000 but mostly in #freebsd back before the extra #	22:56
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BugBlue	clear	23:00
DocScrutinizer	poll!	23:02
DocScrutinizer	who thinks /topic should lose the "\| Skype...*$" part?	23:02
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DocScrutinizer	please post "topic -" if you think the topic should get shorter (i.e. delete the part after&incl " \| Skype"	23:04
DocScrutinizer	)	23:04
DocScrutinizer	please post "topic +" when you think the topic is ok as it is now	23:05
korhojoa	topic -	23:05
korhojoa	(are we allowed to start yet?)	23:05
DocScrutinizer	sure	23:05
DocScrutinizer	:-)	23:06
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DocScrutinizer	topic -	23:07
juk	DocScrutinizer: why in India?	23:08
DocScrutinizer	inia COMBINED image comes without Skype	23:08
juk	DocScrutinizer: clear	23:08
DocScrutinizer	some legalese about encryption	23:08
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SpeedEvil	I wonder why wpa2 is ok	23:10
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nocturnal	has anyone managed to setup cpu transparency for ARMEL so you can run the ARM apps without transferring them to the tablet?	23:17
nocturnal	i get a missing devkit.	23:17
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luke-jr_	nocturnal: yes	23:18
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luke-jr_	but not necessarily Maemo apps	23:18
nocturnal	luke-jr_: ok well should i read this for help on how? http://www.scratchbox.org/documentation/user/scratchbox-1.0/html/devkit.html	23:19
nocturnal	or how did you do it?	23:19
luke-jr_	but I do have a working ARM chroot for Gentoo	23:19
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luke-jr_	http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0/qemu	23:19
luke-jr_	again, not sure how that can be modified to run Maemo apps or not	23:20
luke-jr_	but it's a start	23:20
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TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify the python stuff under /usr/lib/ ?	23:22
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nocturnal	thanks luke-jr_	23:26
luke-jr_	np	23:26
TiagoTiago	oh, and hi	23:26
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TiagoTiago	anyone?	23:29
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kirma	&last 200	23:40
kirma	er.	23:40
TiagoTiago	is it safe to optify the python stuff under /usr/lib/ ?	23:40
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SpeedEvil	Has anyone used witter?	23:42
SpeedEvil	I can't setup oauth	23:42
ShadowJK	isnt it already optified	23:42
ShadowJK	check output of df..	23:42
SpeedEvil	On returning from the browser, and clickg ok, I get a window that's off the bottom of the screen with what looks to be an entry box that I can't use.	23:42
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sivang	hi	23:47
sivang	how do I know which firmware my N900 is? Middle east, UK , it was sent to me from Espoo, Finland	23:47
sivang	does this holds as a UK version or the "plain" images?	23:47
sivang	as per FNC gift	23:48
* sivang picks "GLOBAL" release		23:48
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opdf2	nm had to edit callnotify.py	23:50
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