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| dRbiG | hmm, how are the efforts to enable n900 to be a usb host? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| sivang | is the maemo Fiasco image called like this due to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiasco_(L4_clone)#Fiasco ? | 00:04 |
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| wmarone | doubtful | 00:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dRbiG: they are like http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=62787 | 00:09 |
| sivang | wmarone: it is acually mentioned with relationg to Symbian and in some way Maemo | 00:09 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang you can check your firmware version from settings->about product | 00:11 |
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| pupnik | spend some time educating folks, if you know something | 00:12 |
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| juk | i don't know, i think i'm cursed, emulation wont start! | 00:13 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: 3.2010.02-8 | 00:13 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang I bought my n900 from Finland and it has global firmware | 00:13 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: great, then that's probably what I have | 00:13 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang that should be global | 00:13 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: thanks :) | 00:13 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: how do you gather that? | 00:13 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: I mean, that the version is global firmware? | 00:14 |
| ArGGu^^ | usa firmware version should in .002, middle east and north america .003, india .004 and uk .203.x | 00:15 |
| ArGGu^^ | *should end | 00:15 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: nice, is this on the wiki somewhere? | 00:16 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: how do you know that? :) | 00:16 |
| ArGGu^^ | global firmware just have the normal version number It does not have it own suffix | 00:16 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php | 00:17 |
| ArGGu^^ | firmwares that you can download from there has those suffix | 00:17 |
| ArGGu^^ | and global has none suffix | 00:17 |
| juk | I'm cursed, emulation wont start! http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504157/ help me!!! | 00:17 |
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| E0x | juk: start dbus | 00:18 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: but that appears to be only in the file name no | 00:18 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: so the "Brief Description" column has the same version number for any make | 00:19 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang http://regmedia.co.uk/2010/02/16/n900_1.jpg | 00:19 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: but if your's global, and was bought in finland then that's okay | 00:19 |
| ArGGu^^ | there is screenshot of about product | 00:19 |
| sivang | uh-ha! | 00:19 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: thank you SO MUCH | 00:19 |
| ArGGu^^ | and it has the .002 suffix | 00:20 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: yes, I see that now, I never saw a different device so that helps | 00:20 |
| sivang | It is very rare hre | 00:21 |
| sivang | here | 00:21 |
| sivang | ;) | 00:21 |
| juk | E0x: after dbus manually started: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504158/ | 00:21 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: now the _COMBINED image means it has the eMMC vanilla as well? | 00:22 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: or do I still need to fetch the older in version time stamp image of the eMMC here: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php?f=RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin | 00:24 |
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| juk | E0x: again http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/504161/ | 00:25 |
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| juk | E0x: screw it, i gonna do all over again | 00:26 |
| ArGGu^^ | sivang I'm not sure of that. I have just updated my n900 using ssu | 00:27 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: ah okay. | 00:27 |
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| juk | yeah | 00:29 |
| juk | where's home directory actually in scratchbox? | 00:30 |
| sivang | juk: it is bind mounted to your regular home, IIRC | 00:31 |
| juk | sivang: i want take rootstarps out of there and blow off /scratchbox | 00:32 |
| juk | sivang: btw, it's not my actual home dir | 00:32 |
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| ArGGu^^ | sivang I think that depends where you have bind it. I got in /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/user | 00:33 |
| ArGGu^^ | juk check /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/user | 00:33 |
| juk | ArGGu^^: yeah, thats deal | 00:34 |
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| sivang | ArGGu^^: ah, right | 00:36 |
| ArGGu^^ | btw has anyone tested meego on n900? | 00:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: it's quite varbatim in ~flashing - anyway COMBINED is rootfs + possibly bootloader + possibly cellmo FW, and VANILLA is partitioning of eMMC and content of MyDocs which happens to be a eMMC partition | 00:39 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: yes, I just now deduced it since there was no other things for it to be combined with, as if ti was combined with the eMMC somehow, they would not provide the eMMC as well:) | 00:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if you want to keep $HOME and MyDocs, you do not want to flash VANILLA | 00:40 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: yep, noted thanks. | 00:41 |
| juk | sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_ctl stop | 00:42 |
| juk | WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING | 00:42 |
| juk | Trouble umounting! Some mounts could still be active! | 00:42 |
| juk | am I clear to rm -rf /scratchbox ? | 00:42 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: that's quite hilarious :) - NEW-HOME-SIZE=4096 | 00:42 |
| sivang | sed -e "s/2048/$NEW-HOME-SIZE/" path/to/*VANILLA*.bin >patched-VANILLA.bin | 00:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | eh? | 00:43 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I mean, one would think it'd require more than that. | 00:43 |
| nox- | moin | 00:43 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: so I was quite surprised to see that | 00:43 |
| sivang | moins nox- | 00:43 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no, that's just enough | 00:43 |
| nox- | moin sivang | 00:44 |
| juk | why it happens to me?! | 00:44 |
| ArGGu^^ | juk You want to remove scratchbox? | 00:44 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: how much can you enlarge it than its original size? I mean, the size of the eMMC is 32G tops right? | 00:45 |
| juk | ArGGu^^: yes, very much | 00:45 |
| ArGGu^^ | juk How did you install it? | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: yes, and you'll need 768M for swap, and should keep at least 1G for MyDocs | 00:46 |
| juk | ArGGu^^: sudo aptitude install scratchbox-core scratchbox-libs scratchbox-devkit-qemu scratchbox-devkit-debian scratchbox-devkit-doctools scratchbox-devkit-perl scratchbox-toolchain-host-gcc scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 scratchbox-toolchain-cs2007q3-glibc2.5-i486 scratchbox-devkit-svn scratchbox-devkit-git scratchbox-devkit-apt-https | 00:46 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sivang: so up to 30G for home should work | 00:46 |
| juk | and lots of lots stuff waisting my connection | 00:47 |
| ArGGu^^ | juk http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Un-installation | 00:47 |
| juk | I knew it gonna be messy, why did I | 00:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | juk: BEWARE! BEWARE! rm -rf /scratchbox has nukes quite some systems, because of the bindmounts back to "host"-system | 00:48 |
| juk | DocScrutinizer: I dont care now | 00:49 |
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| * DocScrutinizer neither. Is fetching popcorn and watching the horrormovie to come in this channel :-P | 00:50 | |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: HAHAHA | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | juk: probably if you'd go for a clean new install of your PC's linux OS right away, that'd be much easier than first nuking it by rm -rf /scratchbox | 00:51 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: this happened to me once, so I learned on the flesh. Never happend since. (Not with Maemo, but with various ubuntu chroots bindmounted for network and other stuff) | 00:52 |
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| sivang | I reacalled scratchbox has an uninstall "feature" no? | 00:52 |
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| juk | DocScrutinizer: really that bad, apparently I can't remove it | 00:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | juk: check mount | 00:54 |
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| juk | echo /scratchbox on /scratchbox/users/juk/scratchbox type none (rw,bind) | 00:55 |
| juk | /tmp on /scratchbox/users/juk/tmp type none (rw,bind) | 00:55 |
| juk | echo /dev on /scratchbox/users/juk/dev type none (rw,bind) | 00:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehe, so if you don't need your /tmp anymore... | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | nor your /dev | 00:55 |
| nox- | just umount those first? | 00:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes! | 00:55 |
| MohammadAG | no | 00:56 |
| sivang | juk: try to umount first, if yo get 'fs busy' make sure no apps or shell session are in those dirs | 00:56 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: ? | 00:56 |
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| juk | sivang: no way | 00:56 |
| juk | sivang: busy | 00:56 |
| MohammadAG | there's a way to stop the mounts | 00:56 |
| MohammadAG | sec | 00:56 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG to the rescue! | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:~$ sudo /etc/init.d/scratchbox-core stop | 00:57 |
| MohammadAG | Stopping Scratchbox: umount, binfmt_misc. | 00:57 |
| sivang | oh right | 00:57 |
| sivang | silly me | 00:57 |
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| juk | MohammadAG: Im done | 00:57 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: thanks for keeping us humane and not vilde hayes :) | 00:58 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | I rm -rf'd /scratchbox on my server once | 00:59 |
| sivang | heh | 00:59 |
| sivang | I see | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | was about 100km away from it for 2 months or so | 00:59 |
| sivang | oh dear | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | ssh failed | 00:59 |
| sivang | I have a VDS | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | i couldn't reboot | 00:59 |
| sivang | makes it much easier if I screw things up, so you also learned the hard way. So did I with 2 weeks worth packaging work that went downt the drain when rm -rf bindmounted dirs. | 01:00 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: in a VDS you can reboot and do whatever you want through a web vmware console | 01:00 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: it is quite nice | 01:00 |
| sivang | there where omniqueue.com is hosted | 01:00 |
| sivang | *that's | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | well | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | you can't reboot it in any way | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | cause the linux kernel is fooked | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | try it | 01:01 |
| ArGGu^^ | btw As here is lot of n900 users I think this good place to ask one question | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | rm -rf /dev/* /proc/* /sys/* | 01:02 |
| sivang | yes, so I can just reinstall an image | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | you won't recover from that easily without a cold reboot | 01:02 |
| sivang | if I want to, through a web ui | 01:02 |
| ArGGu^^ | http://arggu.ath.cx/IrGGu.png here is screenshot of irc client that I'm making for n900 | 01:02 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: true, that's is why having a VDS is nice (Virtual Dedicated Server) | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | it probably doesn't have a core i5 :P | 01:02 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: no, but is very very strong | 01:02 |
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| MohammadAG | I wanted an i5 back then | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | http://qkwv.com/xchat.png ArGGu^^ | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | I find useful | 01:03 |
| ArGGu^^ | I put a tab button next text input for nick completion, but I just would want to that if someone has better idea. | 01:03 |
| ArGGu^^ | SpeedEvil I don't like xchat on n900 | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | It would be ideal if it was possible to be able to easily rename the tabe. | 01:03 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: builds packages in a blink of an eye, I should try qt on it sometime soon, maybe tomorrow | 01:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Fair enough | 01:03 |
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| * sivang logs in to his irssi from the N900 | 01:03 | |
| MohammadAG | sivang, try the linux kernel | 01:03 |
| ArGGu^^ | *want to know | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ArGGu^^: it's some ideas - I like tabs on the left - or right - as usually the chat lines are not long enough to take up a whole line. | 01:04 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: will do, should be a nice experiment | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | anyways, I have a laptop now | 01:04 |
| SpeedEvil | ArGGu^^: And configurable short aliases for those names would be good. | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | compiling the zImage takes about 3-5 mins | 01:04 |
| ArGGu^^ | SpeedEvil n900 has some screen so I'm not going use any names list or channel list | 01:04 |
| MohammadAG | school day tomorrow, night o/ | 01:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | ArGGu^^: some screen? | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | ideally | 01:05 |
| ArGGu^^ | network and channels are switched with hot keys | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | the IRC client would have both | 01:05 |
| ArGGu^^ | SpeedEvil sry type I mean small | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | userlists and networks | 01:05 |
| ArGGu^^ | *typo :D | 01:05 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: night! | 01:05 |
| MohammadAG | you would have to swipe left/right to show them | 01:05 |
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| MohammadAG | up/down to scroll | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ArGGu^^: OK. I typically have several channels open - so that wouldn't work well for me | 01:06 |
| MohammadAG | hold on screen to activate copy mode | 01:06 |
| SpeedEvil | ArGGu^^: Also consider that your massive date/timestamp takes up as much room as a chanlist | 01:07 |
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| ArGGu^^ | SpeedEvil that timestamp is only in playback from bouncer | 01:07 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 01:07 |
| MohammadAG | ArGGu^^, do consider my points :) | 01:08 |
| MohammadAG | o/ | 01:08 |
| ArGGu^^ | I would like to have nick completion used from keyboard but I can't think any good key for it :S | 01:08 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: maybe a quick double press? | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I use shift-rightarrow | 01:09 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: on the speace | 01:09 |
| SpeedEvil | It works well for me | 01:09 |
| sivang | ArGGu^^: have youipasted mock ups of the ui somewhere? | 01:09 |
| ArGGu^^ | MohammadAG yes I will consider. | 01:10 |
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| ArGGu^^ | sivang http://arggu.ath.cx/IrGGu.png here is the ui of client | 01:11 |
| ArGGu^^ | I like n900 keyboard so using mostly keyboard shortcuts works for me | 01:12 |
| ArGGu^^ | but maybe I could take more use of the touch screen | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I find it vital | 01:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Opening and closing the screen to switch channels would be _annoying_ | 01:12 |
| ArGGu^^ | Opening and closing screen? | 01:13 |
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| ArGGu^^ | why need to open and close the screen | 01:13 |
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| ArGGu^^ | my default shortcuts are ctrl+up previous network, ctrl+down next network and channels prev ctrl+left, next ctrl+right | 01:14 |
| ArGGu^^ | but shortcuts can be changed from options dialog | 01:14 |
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| sivang | is there a way to force time udpate ? | 01:25 |
| * sivang boogles at why it does not happen automatically as it used to | 01:26 | |
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| * sivang googles through the wiki | 01:30 | |
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| SpeedEvil | sivang: apt-get instal openntpd | 01:31 |
| SpeedEvil | opening and closing keyb | 01:32 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: why do I have to install something new if it worked before? have I changed anything unintentionally? | 01:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | dunno | 01:40 |
| SpeedEvil | I'm suggesting a workaround | 01:40 |
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| sivang | SpeedEvil: sure, thanks, I just like to understands what happens behind the scenes :) | 01:40 |
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| SpeedEvil | Do not look at the man behind the curtain. | 01:42 |
| sivang | hehe | 01:42 |
| DrGrov | Good evening | 01:42 |
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| Goliath23 | hi | 01:45 |
| crashanddie | "The telephone number pasted on boxes of cereal named for Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco was supposed to be for a charity -- but mistakenly directed callers to a sex line" | 01:45 |
| crashanddie | How the hell do you recover from such a mistake and keep your job? | 01:46 |
| crashanddie | "err, woops"? | 01:46 |
| SpeedEvil | crashanddie: By having a lucrative job lined up at an adult buisness PR department. | 01:46 |
| sivang | heh | 01:47 |
| Goliath23 | i'm writing an homescreen widget that displays bundesliga (expandable to other leagues as well) live scores. now i'm thinking of creating a public repo on the web. maybe someone can help my lousy programming skills. what would be the best place? garage.maemo.org? | 01:47 |
| nox- | or maybe they just stopped paying for the line and the phone equivalent of a domain squatter grabbed it... | 01:47 |
| crashanddie | nox-: no, they typo'd 888 instead of 800 | 01:47 |
| nox- | haha ok | 01:47 |
| sivang | hehe | 01:48 |
| Goliath23 | its written in qt and currently it just displays a table with the curremt scores with no automatic update yet (it updates at start) | 01:48 |
| crashanddie | Goliath23: gitorious.org is pretty popular, garage.m.o might do, it contains features such as bugtracker, source control management and mailing lists | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Has anyone used witter recently? | 01:48 |
| crashanddie | Goliath23: also, what the hell is bundesliga? | 01:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Football. | 01:48 |
| crashanddie | SpeedEvil: no, USE KHWEETEUR | 01:49 |
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| Goliath23 | crashanddie: what vcs does garage use? | 01:49 |
| crashanddie | oh, german word for first league? | 01:49 |
| crashanddie | Goliath23: svn, IIRC | 01:49 |
| Goliath23 | crashanddie: yes | 01:49 |
| Goliath23 | crashanddie: ok | 01:49 |
| Goliath23 | I think i go with garage for now | 01:49 |
| crashanddie | and git, as well | 01:50 |
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| Goliath23 | btw. does anyone know when full compisite will come to qt on hildon? | 01:50 |
| crashanddie | I'm guessing about two months after second coming | 01:50 |
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| crashanddie | well, 6 weeks after second coming, most probably. | 01:51 |
| Goliath23 | seems that only the top level widget can be made translucent. i have a tableview and I can't get rid of the black background.. | 01:51 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, Ochocinco is an ass. It's OK. | 01:52 |
| sivang | crashanddie: second coming? | 01:52 |
| crashanddie | GAN900: fairy nuff | 01:52 |
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| crashanddie | sivang: never heard of second coming? | 01:53 |
| sivang | crashanddie: it is related to religion right? | 01:53 |
| crashanddie | yeah | 01:53 |
| sivang | crashanddie: like, a revalation | 01:53 |
| Goliath23 | something like duke nukem forever? | 01:53 |
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| crashanddie | sivang: no, it's supposed to be the second time that christ will walk the earths | 01:53 |
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| sivang | crashanddie: yes, so a revalation to his believers | 01:53 |
| GAN900 | sivang, yes, Revelation. | 01:54 |
| GAN900 | crashanddie, book of the bible. | 01:54 |
| sivang | err, excuse my terrible after midnight spelling | 01:55 |
| sivang | I was bound to go to sleep already but am drawned by the magic spells this channel puts on me. | 01:55 |
| crashanddie | actually, second coming isn't described in the book of revelations (which is written by John, and discusses the end of the world, apocalypse, four horsemen, etc) -- second coming is far from that. | 01:58 |
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| sivang | crashanddie: so it si rather a good thing than an apocalypse? | 02:00 |
| crashanddie | well, ironically, the second coming will predict the end of the world, so... | 02:00 |
| crashanddie | take your pick :D | 02:00 |
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| crashanddie | sivang: i'm not a religious guy at all, I hate religion with a passion. | 02:00 |
| crashanddie | I just thoroughly enjoy the books as fiction. | 02:01 |
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| crashanddie | GAN900: I met the tech lead of my new job | 02:01 |
| crashanddie | the guy's a frigging genius/maniac/awesomeness in a box. | 02:01 |
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| crashanddie | At some point, he started a sentence with "In most of the (programming) languages I designed, I've always tried to include..." | 02:02 |
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| * sivang flashes rootfs | 02:05 | |
| sivang | how long should it show the progress bar once it rebooted? | 02:06 |
| * sivang phews | 02:07 | |
| sivang | the logo and setup appears | 02:07 |
| sivang | jesus | 02:07 |
| sivang | oops | 02:07 |
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| sivang | wawo | 02:08 |
| sivang | the new first time setup screen is amazing | 02:08 |
| * sivang likes | 02:08 | |
| sivang | especially the card | 02:09 |
| sivang | err, the clock | 02:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | crashanddie: we have 2 or 3 votes for shorter /topic, none for keeping as is | 02:10 |
| sivang | odd how some of the desktop icons remained and some vainshed | 02:11 |
| crashanddie | DocScrutinizer: sure | 02:11 |
| pronto | is there a way to have the camera have a timer before it takes a photo? | 02:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | go? | 02:11 |
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| crashanddie | yeah, no problem | 02:11 |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | http://maemo.nokia.com/ | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org/ | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog" | 02:11 | |
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| crashanddie | I thought that skype and nitdroid thing would stay for a day or two, not more | 02:12 |
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| sivang | hmm, so most of the packages vanished so I have to resync them from the backup | 02:14 |
| sivang | oh well | 02:14 |
| * sivang notes browser is much faster. | 02:15 | |
| sivang | kinetic scroll is much better | 02:16 |
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| sivang | odd I forgot the dimmer applet was stock /me reinstalls | 02:18 |
| * sivang just fell inlove deeper with the device. | 02:19 | |
| DocScrutinizer | still kinetic scroll is way from perfect. It's painfully missing a dynamic damping factor, like throwing 3 times in a sequence gives higher scrolling speed AND much less damping, so scroll persists longer | 02:19 |
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| dRbiG | DocScrutinizer: so true | 02:20 |
| dRbiG | and there should be an option to reverse it | 02:20 |
| sivang | dRbiG: yes, but such a difference for the previous version! | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | basically you'd want to have it at a final mode where scrolling never stops until end of window reached. | 02:21 |
| sivang | dRbiG: I got terribly annoyed at it already | 02:21 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: is this the case for iPhone? | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | NFC, I never touched an iPhone | 02:21 |
| sivang | okay. how do I make the protrain mode take affect btw? | 02:22 |
| * sivang thanks people here for pointing him at right wiki resources for making this a smooth process and non destructable | 02:22 | |
| DocScrutinizer | a first simple approach would be: the faster the scrolling the smaller the damping | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | aka 'friction' | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | a second stage of sophistication could take into account the number of throws user applied to the current scroll | 02:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | one fast fierce throw would give fast scroll that slows down quickly, while 3 or 4 gentle throws give a slow scroll that never slows down | 02:25 |
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| sivang | right, so backup app asks me if I want to overwrite the osso-addressbook file since the device has a newer version | 02:26 |
| sivang | I accidently cliked outside the question, and it just stoped the back up and rebooted | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | nice, no? | 02:26 |
| sivang | bahg! | 02:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:26 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: what bugs me here, how will a simple, former iphoner toleratethe fact the backup program asks him about a a file he will never rememebr backing up? | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: you can restore from arbitrary backups as often as you want | 02:27 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: "An more up to date version of your conacts exists on the device" | 02:27 |
| dRbiG | imo n900 is not for iphone users | 02:28 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: at least that:) | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: thank god not all on maemo is tailored to please ex iPhone users | 02:28 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: hehe, yes, well, I am mor ethinking of someone even coming from Symbian | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm | 02:28 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: it never asks you about "thie file that has an odd osso- prefix" | 02:28 |
| sivang | "Restoring contacts" instead | 02:29 |
| psycho_oreos | sivang, my previous phone was symbian :p | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm thinking of "checkmark your last phone you used!" err, [x]winmoob -.-.->BOOOOOM | 02:29 |
| sivang | HAHA | 02:30 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: it is not healthy for me to laugh so louly at this hour of night :) | 02:30 |
| sivang | psycho_oreos: Yes, did S60 ever asked you to replace a file ? :) | 02:30 |
| psycho_oreos | sivang, I don't recall that in particular but symbian was just a piece of shite :) utterly and completely | 02:31 |
| psycho_oreos | almost always everything is either `certificate not valid'; `cannot write to device' | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: had sybian ever any notion about what's a file? :-P | 02:32 |
| psycho_oreos | its like a hardened windows | 02:32 |
| sivang | guys comm'on, given symbian's heritage and early design decision it has gone pretty far with S3 in my view | 02:33 |
| sivang | ;) | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | granted | 02:33 |
| sivang | I have a book FN sent me, | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | still don't want to swap linux for it | 02:33 |
| sivang | and it explains some of the design decision that were never suited for the advanced SoC S60's carry now, and still they make faiely good usage of the hardware | 02:34 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: sure- me neither, Maemo/N900 is like a true dream come true | 02:34 |
| psycho_oreos | I personally don't care about the heritage of an OS, if I bought a device with whatever software its included I expect it to do whatever I please not to give me stupid excuses of needing this or that | 02:34 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: But I have special affection to my N97mini | 02:34 |
| sivang | it has blazing fast photo taking | 02:34 |
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| sivang | responsiveness to the shot button | 02:34 |
| sivang | and the email client is superb for fetching stff out of gmail imap | 02:35 |
| sivang | without draining the batteyr at all | 02:35 |
| * sivang is not sure how ti does that | 02:35 | |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, I considered to get N95-8G a few years ago. But when I had to learn it doesn't have any more external storage slot, I though "meh, screwit" | 02:35 |
| * sivang fights the replace dialog | 02:35 | |
| sivang | I wish we could port the mail client to Maemo/MeeGo :-) | 02:36 |
| psycho_oreos | I got N95-1 (the non-NAM version) it was loaded with dreaded puny RAM which hardly allows one to do multitasking let alone the ability to be able to make any use out of symbian | 02:36 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: yeah., the storage in this device si something else. I use it as a mobile SSHD | 02:36 |
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| sivang | psycho_oreos: what other alternatives were at that time? consider what other companies were offering :) | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: wtf? aren't there ANY good mail clients out there, that only need a Qt GUI to work on maemo/meego like a charm? | 02:37 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: yes,my plan as well :) | 02:37 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: true. There are some quite nice protocol middlwares that ould just use a Qt GUI thrown at them. | 02:37 |
| * sivang thinks this could be a nice practice | 02:37 | |
| psycho_oreos | sivang, I would have personally gone for my very own first linux phone.. maybe an old HTC.. but instead N900 became my first linux phone | 02:37 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I actually started exploring some of those after going over the changelog of MohammadAG51 's modest package | 02:38 |
| psycho_oreos | N95-1 shits me to tears in most cases | 02:38 |
| sivang | psycho_oreos: consider the alternative at that time, when my friend bought his N95 and played albeit transcoded movies to a tv, or used N-Gage to play games, people astonished | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG51 is a constant pain in that he refuses to set up some central wiki location summarizing all his great work, and one decent git repo to pull sources from, and easy-to-install packages for everything, even a repo for HAM | 02:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and he's using tmo way too much to announce his things :-P | 02:41 |
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| sivang | tmo? | 02:42 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: I know someone who refuses to use git or Bazaar because they require* SSH keys… | 02:42 |
| luke-jr_ | sivang: talk.maemo.org duh | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | while no sane human can look at tmo more frequently than once a month | 02:42 |
| sivang | ah | 02:42 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I agree. | 02:42 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: that often? must be an edge case | 02:42 |
| sivang | real men use mailing lists :-p | 02:42 |
| luke-jr_ | pfft | 02:42 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: hehe | 02:42 |
| luke-jr_ | real men use NNTP | 02:42 |
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| sivang | luke-jr_: for news? | 02:42 |
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| luke-jr_ | the standard protocol for such purposes | 02:43 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: dude, that's the past | 02:43 |
| nox- | sivang, gmane | 02:43 |
| luke-jr_ | what protocol has replaced NNTP? | 02:43 |
| Carneque | hi all is there a good organizer that syncs with outlook calendar? | 02:43 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: so you have a news reader for MLs? | 02:43 |
| nox- | <nox-> sivang, gmane | 02:43 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: no protocl | 02:43 |
| luke-jr_ | sivang: ML is just a hacky implementation of discussion groups | 02:43 |
| luke-jr_ | NNTP is the standard protocol for them | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: simply? no | 02:44 |
| luke-jr_ | I suppose one could implement discussion groups with IMAP4… | 02:44 |
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| luke-jr_ | Carneque: I doubt many, if any, people serious about N900 use Outlook, or even Windows | 02:44 |
| sivang | nox-: ah, I will look to how to allows to subscribe and everything, never thought about checking it | 02:44 |
| Carneque | anything for organizing urself? | 02:44 |
| * sivang used to use NNTP in 1997 | 02:45 | |
| nox- | sivang, example: gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.user | 02:45 |
| luke-jr_ | unfortunately, NNTP clients are falling by the wayside | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: more elaborate: there's ways to sync the maemo genuine calendar and contacts, and there are organizers that sync easily but don't integrate into maemo well | 02:45 |
| luke-jr_ | but it is still the standard, and still best suited for the purpose | 02:45 |
| sivang | nox-: I'll install a news reader, do we have something for the tablet? | 02:45 |
| nox- | you are soo right luke-jr_ | 02:45 |
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| nox- | sivang, im cheating i ssh to a bsd box and run trn4... | 02:46 |
| sivang | nox-: heh | 02:46 |
| luke-jr_ | once upon a time I wrote a discussion group server that supported frontends for email (mailing list style), NNTP, and phpBB2… | 02:46 |
| sivang | I can try and do it on my server actually, and then I Might not need gmail at all! | 02:46 |
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| luke-jr_ | storing messages losslessly in their native/original formats internally, as well as convertible metadata | 02:46 |
| Carneque | what should i download on my computer so i can update my schedule there and sync my phone with it? | 02:47 |
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| sivang | perhaps other than proper email | 02:47 |
| luke-jr_ | Carneque: in theory, you can probably use any standard calendar app and git or bazaar | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: WUT?? | 02:47 |
| nox- | sivang, i run mutt on the bsd box too :) | 02:48 |
| sivang | nox-: ah mutt! me long lost friend | 02:48 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: don't tell me Maemo isn't standards compliant for calendar? :/ | 02:48 |
| sivang | it is isn't it? | 02:48 |
| sivang | ther'es a paper about that somehwere | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | wtf has calendar of any form to deal with git?? | 02:48 |
| Carneque | hmmm ive never heard of git or bazaar | 02:48 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: for syncing | 02:48 |
| luke-jr_ | all my PIM data is in a Bazaar repo | 02:48 |
| hatake_kakashi | sivang, not really, your friend has different needs and wants compared to me.. I still would have loved to have my very own first linux phone | 02:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer scratches head, extendedly | 02:49 | |
| nox- | sivang, and i even have a local nntpd for a few lists that i dont read via gmane | 02:49 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: efficient sync and merging capable | 02:49 |
| sivang | hatake_kakashi: sure, I was not saiying it can come instead of a linux phone | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: sounds nifty | 02:49 |
| Carneque | this is basic functionality isnt it? | 02:49 |
| sivang | nox-: that's 7133t | 02:49 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: my maildir is also in git | 02:49 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: and I have a server-side script that automatically makes commits for changes (monitored with inotify) | 02:50 |
| Carneque | i would think peeps wuld be all over developing that | 02:50 |
| hatake_kakashi | sivang, not for me, I thought symbian would have been more flexible than that motorola crap OS I had on me lost motorola v3 | 02:50 |
| hatake_kakashi | alas that wasn't the case | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: that's damn nifty for sure | 02:50 |
| luke-jr_ | DocScrutinizer: works well, even with ~220 folders and over 700,000 messages | 02:50 |
| Carneque | is anyone interested in a project like that? | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: take it. Nobody of the devs really is using outlook | 02:51 |
| sivang | hatake_kakashi: well depends on what you're used to I guess. I've only had Samsungs and Ericsson and they were not customiziable anough to my taste | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | anything else would take forever to sync that… but git can pull it off snappy | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | so I get real-time backups ;) | 02:51 |
| sivang | bzr new knit format is cool, yes | 02:51 |
| sivang | "new" | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | (it pushes to my local desktop too) | 02:51 |
| sivang | it is not that much new by now | 02:51 |
| sivang | so how od I get back the root mode? | 02:51 |
| sivang | hmm | 02:51 |
| sivang | through HAM? | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | … | 02:51 |
| luke-jr_ | sudo -i -H | 02:52 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: ah, thanks | 02:52 |
| Carneque | i guess im confused... i dont need outlook just something like it on the desktop | 02:52 |
| nox- | or the rootsh package | 02:52 |
| luke-jr_ | Carneque: honestly, I maintain 3 independent calendars | 02:52 |
| luke-jr_ | one of which is Maemo's | 02:52 |
| hatake_kakashi | sivang, or there's always the option to ignore mainstream developers at the time and head for linux phones :) remember trolltech qtopia? :) | 02:52 |
| luke-jr_ | the other, KDE's on my desktop | 02:52 |
| sivang | also the prompt changes, so I don't get the ncie "/home/user>" anymore | 02:52 |
| luke-jr_ | finally, a custom one I wrote for a weekly unchanging stuff | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: aiui sync to a evolution server is pretty much ootb. So if you're using standard gnome/linux | 02:53 |
| sivang | hatake_kakashi: never had ti, but read about it yes. | 02:53 |
| sivang | hatake_kakashi: quite rad in my view, and predicted a bit of the future if I may say | 02:53 |
| * luke-jr_ glares at DocScrutinizer for putting 'gnome' and 'standard' together | 02:53 | |
| Carneque | evolution server | 02:53 |
| Carneque | hmmm | 02:53 |
| * DocScrutinizer is amazed to type the cgar seqence starting with 'g' at all | 02:53 | |
| luke-jr_ | hmm, my maildir git repo is 25 GB now… | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | g* == EVIL | 02:54 |
| Carneque | i then setup a server to manage my calendar? | 02:54 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: asks for a password | 02:54 |
| luke-jr_ | sivang: so give it | 02:54 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: the root one? | 02:54 |
| hatake_kakashi | sivang, it made me droll but it was not available in shops around my area at the time.. I still would have loved to own it compared to what has been my epic time of using mainstream brands of phones until n900 | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: a server in unix is a process, not a box | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: you got several servers on your N900 even | 02:55 |
| Carneque | i worked in debian and never heard that term explained like that im still fresh though | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | most commonly known is X server | 02:55 |
| sivang | luke-jr_: have no idea what the password it, /me tries to install rootsh from HAM | 02:56 |
| Carneque | which is a box right? | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | Carneque: wikipedia is your friend | 02:56 |
| * sivang don't get why restore did not reinstall the rootsh package and since he did not erase the .bash* stuff why everytning changed for the prompt settings etc | 02:57 | |
| Carneque | yeah but im in a chattin mood | 02:57 |
| sivang | anyway, time to continuw with this tomorrow | 02:58 |
| sivang | byte all! thanks for all the fish! | 02:58 |
| Carneque | nice | 02:58 |
| sivang | (and for teaching how to fish) | 02:58 |
| sivang | err, bye all, that is. | 02:58 |
| Carneque | nite all im out too | 02:59 |
| Carneque | ill check out git and bizaar thanks for the advice | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: pkgs installed via apt-get aren't backup'd. Just a kind reminder. Also a hint: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 02:59 |
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| luke-jr_ | [18:55:50] <DocScrutinizer> most commonly known is X server | 03:01 |
| luke-jr_ | [18:56:12] <Carneque> which is a box right? | 03:01 |
| luke-jr_ | LOL | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | I was amazingly calm and reluctant, no? | 03:02 |
| nox- | DocScrutinizer, you seen this ticket? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 | 03:02 |
| povbot` | Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications | 03:02 |
| luke-jr_ | wrong is subjective | 03:02 |
| luke-jr_ | :p | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, not yet | 03:02 |
| nox- | theres a patched .deb in there (and also my workaround) | 03:02 |
| nox- | luke-jr_, well a `real' xterm doesnt send an esc sequence for keypad enter either | 03:07 |
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| nox- | well or at least not a wrong one :) | 03:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nox-: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools :-D Thanks | 03:39 |
| nox- | yw :) | 03:40 |
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| yacc_ | any idea why an installed applet (flashlight-applet) doews not showup? | 04:03 |
| luke-jr_ | yacc_: it only shows up when the shutter is open, and the Camera app off | 04:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | yacc_: flashlight applet only shows up in system status menu | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | luke-jr_: actually it also shows when camera is still active, but it's useless :-P | 04:06 |
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| luke-jr_ | [20:05:24] <halberd> you can be like jabba if you eat 10,000 calories a day- 5 loaves of bread at $2 a loaf | 04:06 |
| luke-jr_ | [20:05:33] <luke-jr_> Jabba isn't a human | 04:06 |
| luke-jr_ | [20:05:43] <halberd> jabba isn't real luke-jr | 04:06 |
| luke-jr_ | tell me he's lying! | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | who's jabba? | 04:07 |
| luke-jr_ | Jabba the Hut! | 04:08 |
| luke-jr_ | you know, Pizza the Hut's cousin? | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nfc | 04:09 |
| luke-jr_ | … | 04:09 |
| luke-jr_ | are you serious? O.o | 04:09 |
| luke-jr_ | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabba_the_Hutt | 04:10 |
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| raster | MUHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA | 04:16 |
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| DocScrutinizer | raster: ??? :-D | 04:26 |
| raster | thats what jabba would say | 04:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, ok. I prefer hypnotoad | 04:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | r33b.net | 04:28 |
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| newbie007 | does anyone know how to animate a svg image on the n900.. I'm thinking of going javascript/setTimeout .. any better ideas? | 04:38 |
| newbie007 | fyi the clock is svg based, not sure if animation is supported "smil"? | 04:40 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 04:50 |
| TiagoTiago | seems i might have somehow messed up the thing that autolocks the keysa and screen, it's set to do it but the screen stays lit and responding | 04:51 |
| TiagoTiago | i/e already treid rebooting as well as unsetting and setting it again | 04:53 |
| TiagoTiago | i've* | 04:53 |
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| TiagoTiago | any idea how i can figure out how to fix this? | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | try replacing mce.ini with a clean version | 04:57 |
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| TiagoTiago | can i paste the current contents of that file on pastebin for you to check if ythere is any bad parameters? | 05:03 |
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| TiagoTiago | http://pastebin.com/TGqjDe2u <- if you're willing | 05:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no obvious odds | 05:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: maybe you switched to "screen always on" in any app, like xchat? | 05:35 |
| pupnik | ttp://www.engadget.com/2010/07/22/blindtype-vows-to-autocorrect-all-wrongs-by-replacing-your-virtu/ Ok, here's an invention I wish i'd had. "Blindtype" for android. | 05:35 |
| Termana | Looks like you could use it to mitigate you missing your h key as well | 05:37 |
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| pupnik | oh sorry | 05:46 |
| pupnik | nevertheless it's fun to try to think of how one would implement that | 05:47 |
| pupnik | ""Our application permissions model protects against this type of threat. When installing an application, users see a screen that explains clearly what information and system resources the application has permission to access, such as a user's phone number or sending an SMS. Users must explicitly approve this access in order to continue with the installation" << google on the recent virus announcement | 05:49 |
| Termana | pupnik, android virus? It's not like what google is saying isn't true - it DOES show you in fine grain detail what the application is allowed to do | 05:51 |
| pupnik | Termana: that's quite a nice feature, actually | 05:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | SElinux? | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | AppArmor? | 05:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn, we have that since ages, not like a new invention of google | 05:57 |
| nox- | tho maemo isnt using it (right? :) | 05:57 |
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| pupnik | way to miss the whole point in true geek fashion, dockane_ | 06:10 |
| pupnik | DocScrutinizer: | 06:10 |
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| kwtm | Wow, nice bot. ~seen kwtm | 06:32 |
| kwtm | ~seen kwtm | 06:32 |
| infobot | kwtm is currently on #maemo (38m 35s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: '~seen kwtm'. | 06:32 |
| kwtm | Oh. I guess I have to be off for that to work. | 06:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | sorry, got distracted, as far as i know, i don't got anything set to keep the screen on | 07:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | (bme) you might be interested: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/jrbme/bme_chargefloat_log | 07:11 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | I need to set the n900 up with the local mobile service, but they don't have n900 on their list. What's the next nearest model that uses similar settings? | 09:18 |
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| parsapersian | hi all | 09:29 |
| parsapersian | I can not connect to yahoo in conversations and acound with my nokia n900 mobile device , my error is : not signed in! i have same error with msn , but google talk and aim is ok ,, What should i do? | 09:30 |
| pupnik | http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/03/magazine/03FOB-medium-t.html?_r=2&partner=rss&emc=rss angry birds makes NYT | 09:33 |
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| messerting | Hi, I'm preparing a PDF presentation, and would like to be able to use the TV cable on my n900 (as a backup solution) | 09:46 |
| messerting | In what resolution would it be best to prepare the PDF? | 09:46 |
| messerting | I'm using LaTeX beamer, and the default of 800x600 doesn't look so good. Anyone has experince with this? | 09:47 |
| Stskeeps | 800x480 | 09:50 |
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| RST38h | moo, zap, Stskeeps | 09:56 |
| messerting | Stskeeps: ok, will try to find the option in beamer to set that resolution. thanks | 09:57 |
| Stskeeps | moo RST38h | 09:58 |
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| cotigao | hi, i am getting an error when trying to apt-get update from sbox arm target | 10:38 |
| cotigao | i following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution | 10:38 |
| cotigao | ERROR: http://pastebin.ca/1953136 | 10:38 |
| cotigao | its says packages not found | 10:38 |
| cotigao | please help! | 10:42 |
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| cotigao | hi, can anybody help me out here with this? http://pastebin.ca/1953143 | 11:00 |
| cotigao | **please | 11:00 |
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| tobis87 | Hi, seen this http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2010-October/027687.html ? Could this be backported or does maemo already make use of the hw. accel. for codecs? | 11:22 |
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| Stskeeps | it already does | 11:29 |
| cotigao | Stskeeps, i am having problems with apt-get update, http://pastebin.ca/1953143 | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | cotigao: you've misconfigured your sb | 11:30 |
| cotigao | Stskeeps, but I am following the instructions as per http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution | 11:32 |
| cotigao | Stskeeps, what possibly i could have overlooked? | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | unsure | 11:32 |
| * Stskeeps has banned sb from his life permanently, so | 11:32 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:32 |
| tobis87 | Stskeeps: So it is just important to other projects, like the beagleboard and pandaboard. Maybe the vlc people could make use of it, but vlc for maemo seems to have stalled. | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | tobis87: it's important for meego, too | 11:33 |
| Stskeeps | on n900 | 11:33 |
| tobis87 | Why? If it already uses it, what is new on this that it is available as source? | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | it was always available as source, afaik | 11:35 |
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| cotigao | Stskeeps, is there any alternative to this? ... i mean a documented one | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | cotigao: you need to use the install script | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | and it'll set it up proeprly | 11:37 |
| cotigao | Stskeeps, where can i get it? | 11:37 |
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| Stskeeps | cotigao: google a bit :) | 11:38 |
| * Stskeeps is off for shopping | 11:38 | |
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| cotigao | Stskeeps, ahh.. ok thanks ... :) | 11:39 |
| tobis87 | Btw, do you know a bug which causes "DMA transaction error with device" ? This is all I get, if I want to use the hw encrypt. with 256-essiv. | 11:40 |
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| tobis87 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63208 , insane "12:Max. 1150Mhz" | 11:52 |
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| cotigao | hi, is there a away to disable charging in n900? | 12:52 |
| cotigao | *way | 12:52 |
| cotigao | *usb charging | 12:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | yes | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | before you plug it in, stop bme | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | why? | 12:55 |
| SpeedEvil | start bme after | 12:55 |
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| TiagoTiago | hi | 13:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | is there a way i can see what my N900 is thinking when it decides to not lock the screen and keys after i leave it untouched for the required time for that? | 13:14 |
| TiagoTiago | somthing like a live readout of all the parameters it reads to consider whether to lock the screen due to timeout or not | 13:16 |
| TiagoTiago | or some other status indicator that would shed some light on why it isn't qorking as expected | 13:17 |
| jpinx-eeepc | my n900 is connected to the internet by usb to this eeepc and through it's wifi, everything works fine excpet application manager, which demands a connection from thte list. The usb connection is not listed, so how do I proceed? | 13:20 |
| jpinx-eeepc | or do I just do apt-get update and upgrade from a terminal? | 13:21 |
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| sivang | mornig all | 15:07 |
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| jacktheripper | why's parted not there for fremantle ? | 15:09 |
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| sivang | did some checking over tinymail, now I wonder if it is also reused for MeeGo? | 15:12 |
| sivang | If so, hasthe modest shortcomings stem from improper use of tinymail or from misdesign and coding in the modest mail client itself? | 15:13 |
| * sivang wonders if anybody have an idea | 15:13 | |
| Stskeeps | both, maybe | 15:13 |
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| Stskeeps | i wish modest a horrible death | 15:14 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps:you think meego client will be better? | 15:14 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: ref client is not in 1.1 due to bugs, so no | 15:14 |
| * RST38h sghs | 15:14 | |
| sivang | Stskeeps: hehe | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i hope someone sane will code a better one | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I think, by now it is clear that the problem is not with built in apps. It is with the way they are developed... | 15:15 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: what would you propose as a middleware IMAP/pop local storage lib to be used? | 15:15 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Based on MMaemo4 and Maemo5 experience, won't happen | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: under rush? | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no idea | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I can think of several reasons | 15:16 |
| sivang | and if you wondered, so the fact the backup tool has to accept my 'don't overritw' request makes it not restore apps as well | 15:16 |
| sivang | FWIW | 15:16 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: hence why my apps were not installed :) | 15:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: 1) constant rush 2) unexperienced developers, with high turnaround 3) development policies preventing actual development from happening | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: 4) constantly changing priorities, with developers being shuffled between projects | 15:17 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I knew I used HAM to install every one of them , I thought I was going crazy recalling doing so | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Honestly, I have no idea which of these are affecting Maemo/Meego Devices, but some clearly are | 15:18 |
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| * sivang tries to find a good linux imap lib with good performance and support for good caching. | 15:18 | |
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| sivang | now what? the udate light is blinking and nothing happens in HAM | 15:19 |
| sivang | and it said it wasgoing to restore the apps | 15:19 |
| sivang | ah! after a while, things get clear. | 15:21 |
| * sivang notes HAM shoudl REALLY have some BETTER progress indication | 15:21 | |
| sivang | I was going to click it away already | 15:21 |
| sivang | :-...( | 15:21 |
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| sivang | is FAM better at progress indication? | 15:21 |
| Termana | sivang, it would be nice if HAM just didnt suck. Period. | 15:21 |
| Termana | sivang, FAM is much better and much faster imo | 15:22 |
| Termana | fapman | 15:22 |
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| Termana | :p | 15:22 |
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| GAN900 | sivang, welcome to Maemo: Where it's all half-assed! | 15:23 |
| n900-space | hi all | 15:24 |
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| n900-space | i installed the latest nokia qt sdk, and when i launched the qt creator it says help is not installed. Any ideas why not? | 15:26 |
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| sivang | Termana: I will install it once th restore is finished, does it hae proper progress indication? | 15:30 |
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| TiagoTiago | it seems somtimes when i restart mce the autolock works a couple of times, but then it stops working again | 15:35 |
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| wazd | there's no FAM, there's only Fapman :D | 15:39 |
| RST38h | wazd:moooooooooooooo | 15:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: heya :) | 15:39 |
| Noobmonk3y | wooooop | 15:40 |
| * MohammadAG slaps Noobmonk3y around with a large frals | 15:40 | |
| RST38h | wazd: http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs44/f/2009/096/b/5/Russian_elephants_by_Waldemar_Kazak.jpg !!!! | 15:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | hey mo! | 15:40 |
| Noobmonk3y | hows the land of maemo today? | 15:41 |
| RST38h | sleepy. | 15:41 |
| Noobmonk3y | awwwwwww | 15:41 |
| TiagoTiago | my N900 doesn't feel like autolocking the screen anymore :( | 15:41 |
| wazd | RST38h: jeez :D | 15:42 |
| Noobmonk3y | Tiaago, has it got swine flu? | 15:42 |
| RST38h | sorry tohear that, I am afraid you will have to put it down | 15:42 |
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| TiagoTiago | it isn't sneazing nor anything, and it isn't feverish either (for an N900, if it was a human it would need imediate medical attention) | 15:44 |
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| sivang | TiagoTiago: mine does this as well | 15:48 |
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| sivang | RST38h: hehe, using a sleep shot? | 15:48 |
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| TiagoTiago | sivang, does what? Stop autolocking or just be warm? | 15:50 |
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| sivang | TiagoTiago: both :) | 15:52 |
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| sivang | what does MicroB have with geolocation? | 15:52 |
| TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix the autolocking behavior? | 15:52 |
| sivang | there's a package maemo-geolocation, do I need it? (HAM restore asks me which packages to restore) | 15:53 |
| sivang | also, should I report a bug about the HAM oddity ? | 15:53 |
| TiagoTiago | there is an extension to let webpages see your location data (from GPS or cell network) | 15:53 |
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| MohammadAG | so | 15:58 |
| MohammadAG | should a thread which violates the GPL license be kept alive? | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | report it for copyright infrigement or council? | 15:58 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: on the forum? | 15:59 |
| RST38h | How do you violate GPL in a foru thread? | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=831506&postcount=1 | 15:59 |
| * sivang is curious as well | 15:59 | |
| RST38h | No, really? | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | they're distributing the neopwn kernel without a source | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: mentioning RMS's smell | 15:59 |
| MohammadAG | on their own repo | 16:00 |
| MohammadAG | and they're stating it's their property | 16:00 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 16:00 |
| TiagoTiago | talk with the owners of the intelectul property or whoever else enforces the GPL | 16:01 |
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| MohammadAG | the owner hasn't published the binaries publicly | 16:01 |
| TiagoTiago | i mean tell them what's going on so they can take action | 16:02 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: So how does he violate gpl? | 16:02 |
| TiagoTiago | releasing binnary copiled with GPL code without releasing source? | 16:03 |
| psycho_oreos | you do realise there's lots of source codes that hasn't been published.. much like that hacked fm-transmitter | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | fmtxd? | 16:03 |
| MohammadAG | that isn't GPL licensed | 16:03 |
| TiagoTiago | ask them for the source, if they don't give you then report them to the authorities | 16:04 |
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| psycho_oreos | fmtx-si4713.ko | 16:04 |
| RST38h | Paleontologists Unearth Giant Fossilized Penguin | 16:05 |
| TiagoTiago | lol | 16:05 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, talk to jacekowski then :) | 16:06 |
| MohammadAG | the source is available in the linux kernel, it has the numbers changed to match each other | 16:06 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, the plain one is available in the maemo patched linux kernel but not the hacked one :) so maybe jacekowski should also be reported? :) | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | he can provide the source for it upon request, those guys can't | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | psycho_oreos, the neopwn kernel doesn't have a public source | 16:08 |
| psycho_oreos | but why only on request? isn't that still somewhat a partial violation? | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | no | 16:08 |
| psycho_oreos | MohammadAG, that's true but that module doesn't have a source until requested | 16:08 |
| MohammadAG | sometimes I release binaries without a source | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | and I get a PM (usually from Matan) about it | 16:09 |
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| MohammadAG | then I provide the source (or the patches) | 16:09 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 16:10 |
| * MohammadAG thinks he found a way to disable transitions in hildon-desktop | 16:10 | |
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| TiagoTiago | any idea how i can fix the autolock not happening, or at least figure out why? | 16:11 |
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| psycho_oreos | hmm | 16:14 |
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| MohammadAG | TiagoTiago, probably mce being an ass about it | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | either restart mce and see if that works, or reboot | 16:15 |
| MohammadAG | stop mce then start mce | 16:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | nope | 16:16 |
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| TiagoTiago | had already tried with the LED pattern editor, and rebooting, somtimes it works again, but that only lasts one or two unlocks | 16:17 |
| TiagoTiago | tried now with the commands you said, nothing changed | 16:17 |
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| Goliath23 | hi | 16:21 |
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| Goliath23 | is there a way for a homescreenwidget to programmatically change it's size? | 16:21 |
| Goliath23 | how does it play together with the values in the .desktop file? | 16:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | I already suggested mce.ini clean, but inspection of TiagoTiago's pastebin didn't show particular odds | 16:22 |
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| TiagoTiago | tried again and this time it locked once, i unlocked it and it isn´t locking again | 16:24 |
| TiagoTiago | i tried replacing it anyway still nothing | 16:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | alarmd, mce, dbus, damn that can be a lot of things | 16:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | no way to diagnose it? | 16:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | hard | 16:25 |
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| TiagoTiago | cars got plugs you stick a laptop in and it says what is wrong.... | 16:26 |
| Goliath23 | homescreenwidget on a n900 that is .. (hildon I guess) | 16:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | ltrace mce (if that doesn't instantly reboot your system) - alas you'll have to analyze the log yourself | 16:26 |
| TiagoTiago | there isn't a thing that says what mce is seeing and what it's thinking? | 16:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | not afaik | 16:28 |
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| TiagoTiago | i'll try that command you said | 16:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | but a dbus-monitor --system | less might help as well | 16:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if any app is disabling screen blanking, then it most likely will do via dbus msg to mce | 16:29 |
| TiagoTiago | ltrace not found :/ | 16:29 |
| TiagoTiago | i dont got less either :( | 16:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer | debugging mce isn't a ootb-usecase :-P | 16:31 |
| TiagoTiago | "ootb" ? | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ootb | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf ootb | 16:31 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what ootb means... | 16:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~useless | 16:32 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 16:32 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ootb is Out Of The Box | 16:32 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 16:32 |
| TiagoTiago | i see | 16:32 |
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| TiagoTiago | can i install somthing relativelly safe that will let me do it? | 16:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | apt-get insrall less ltrace | 16:32 |
| TiagoTiago | k | 16:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | any other utils that might come in handy? | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | dbus-monitor | 16:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | guess that's default install though | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | wonder ehy | 16:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | why* | 16:34 |
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| TiagoTiago | what should i look for in the scrolling text? | 16:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | a msg to mce, asking to keep screen unblanked | 16:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | check dbus pages e.g of jebba | 16:36 |
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| TiagoTiago | that less thing doesn't update | 16:39 |
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| TiagoTiago | "signal sender=:1.431 -> dest=(null destination) serial=380 path=/com/nokia/mce/signal; interface=com.nokia.mce.signal; member=system_inactivity_ind" ? | 16:40 |
| mc_teo | hey there | 16:40 |
| mc_teo | i finally got scratchbox all set up | 16:40 |
| mc_teo | and working with xepher server too | 16:41 |
| TiagoTiago | signal sender=:1.41 -> dest=(null destination) serial=6515 path=/com/nokia/iphbd; interface=com.nokia.iphbd; member=wakeup150 | 16:41 |
| TiagoTiago | ? | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: yes, noticed that | 16:42 |
| mc_teo | first port of call, whats the easiest way to move things over to the n900 itsself? | 16:42 |
| TiagoTiago | that was another msg | 16:42 |
| TiagoTiago | two so far i've noticed had words that could indicate being related to my issue | 16:43 |
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| mc_teo | i tried compiling winexe from its sourceforge source, and it compiles grand under both x86 and arm archs | 16:44 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: sorry, I can't really help here. As mentioned above, you'll probably have to analyze the logs yourself | 16:45 |
| mc_teo | but i imagine it needs all of its own libs, etc, so how can i package them all together | 16:45 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 16:45 |
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| TiagoTiago | gonna try that ltrace thing | 16:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: I honestly think your mce is segfaulting and gets restarted. Failing screenblanking is a known issue of restarted mce. | 16:47 |
| TiagoTiago | wold there be a log registring when it segfaults? | 16:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | you can probably check some files dsme-related the name of which I can't recall right now, to find out if mce got restarted | 16:47 |
| TiagoTiago | where can i find the names/paths? | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask here | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | or skim /var/* | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | or google | 16:49 |
| TiagoTiago | ok, what is the name of the dsme related files that will tell me when mce got restarted? | 16:49 |
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| TiagoTiago | any suggestion of keywords that might speed up the search? | 16:51 |
| TiagoTiago | would the file have a .log extension? | 16:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't think so | 16:55 |
| TiagoTiago | or be inside a folder with log in the name? | 16:55 |
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| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_resets | 16:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | etc | 16:58 |
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| TiagoTiago | mce itself isn't mentioned in the files there | 17:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: also a simple ps can tell you about mce's PID, and that will change on restarts | 17:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | syslog also might help | 17:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | but for sure the best clue is to remember what you installed or did immediately befor the problem started | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the easiest fix is to reflash | 17:04 |
| TiagoTiago | :( | 17:04 |
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| steinex | [C | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | uninstall fcam, it's known to interfere with mce | 17:05 |
| TiagoTiago | where do i find the syslog? | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | TiagoTiago: there'll be none unless you installed syslogd | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | dmesg might hold just enough of info though | 17:06 |
| TiagoTiago | i'll go install that | 17:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | first go uninstall fcam! | 17:07 |
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| TiagoTiago | k | 17:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | iirc that is | 17:11 |
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| TiagoTiago | should i reboot after uninstalling fcam? | 17:13 |
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| TiagoTiago | if reboot isn't needed then uninstalling it made no difference | 17:15 |
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| TiagoTiago | ok, i'll reboot, brb | 17:18 |
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| TiagoTiago | seems that did it | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart fcam | 17:27 |
| * infobot installs a bad bootloader on fcam and turns fcam into a brick | 17:27 | |
| TiagoTiago | gonna reinstall fcam and see if the issue returns | 17:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes it will | 17:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | as mentioned above, fcam does wrong things to indicator LED (google for fcam blink), and this will eventually lead to same problem again | 17:28 |
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| TiagoTiago | well, if it does happen again later, i'll know what to do, meanwhile i'll keep having manual settings avaiable for special shots | 17:29 |
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| MohammadAG | <DocScrutinizer> fcam is known to do nasty really wrong things to indicator LED, which in turn may cause mce to segfault | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | muhaha, noobs | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | I added LED support to my app in a not so clean way, but it doesn't bother the CPU | 17:30 |
| MohammadAG | err, mce* | 17:30 |
| TiagoTiago | erm, it is still installed o.o | 17:31 |
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| TiagoTiago | lets see if it still autolocking.... | 17:33 |
| TiagoTiago | balls :( | 17:33 |
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| TiagoTiago | removing it with other means now | 17:35 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: mce = maemo camera engine? | 17:39 |
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| sivang | how nice, usb hangups are no on the laptop as well :) | 17:39 |
| * [XeN] is now away: Hi, this is the answer mashine. Leave a message after the beep. Beep. | 17:39 | |
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| TiagoTiago | ~mce | 17:40 |
| infobot | MCE = Machine Check Exception | 17:40 |
| TiagoTiago | i don't think that is it | 17:41 |
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| TiagoTiago | ~bce | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | machine control entity | 17:42 |
| TiagoTiago | isn't it mode? | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 17:42 |
| sivang | ah, yet another entity ,like the dsme | 17:42 |
| sivang | ~dsme | 17:42 |
| infobot | i guess dsme is Device State Management Entity | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* yes | 17:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | [XeN]: disable that away message! | 17:44 |
| sivang | so how does fcam makes mce segfault? | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | it opens LP5523 sysfs nodes, so mce fails when trying to access those, afaik | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce is stupid enough to simply segfault on such a simple problem | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | fcam is ignorant enough to access lp5523 indicator LED sysnodes directly, instead of using well documented easy-to-use mce interface for that | 17:47 |
| TiagoTiago | but does it do it even if i don't fire up any camera program? | 17:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno, camera-ui is started as a daemon, during boot. nfc what fcam does | 17:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I never really wraped my head around it. It's just a "meh, oh well..." for me, followed by immediate uninstall of fcam | 17:51 |
| TiagoTiago | having manual controls for the camera parameters is a big thing for certain types of photographers | 17:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sure | 17:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | for me fcam never performed up to par to the genuine pr1.2 cam app | 17:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | til PR1.2 the Nokia cam app was real crap. The PR1.2 though has improved a lot, and I'm quite happy with nightmode. So major PITA is you can't exactly remote control the camera-ui, for example to implement timer shots, or BT remote control shots (think of a BT headset pushbutton used to trigger a photo taken) | 17:57 |
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| * RST38h isn't sure what the "improvement" was. It is still crap, and the software has nothing to do with it. | 18:01 | |
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| MohammadAG | what's the chmod to make users only able to see their own files? | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | 777? | 18:02 |
| MohammadAG | nah | 18:02 |
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| TiagoTiago | use midnight commander or some other graphical interface to set permissions, no need for doing binary AND and binnary to decimal convertions in your head :) | 18:05 |
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| satmd | MohammadAG: no file on earth should need 777 | 18:06 |
| satmd | 0600 is user all, others none | 18:06 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: you can do somethin like chmod a-rwx , then chmod u+rwx on the ir with -R flag | 18:06 |
| sivang | or what satmd said :) | 18:07 |
| satmd | u=rw,g-rwx,o-rwx | 18:07 |
| satmd | or that one | 18:07 |
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| MohammadAG | mohammad@mohammad-i5laptop:/home$ cd mohammad/ | 18:08 |
| MohammadAG | bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied | 18:08 |
| MohammadAG | fvck | 18:08 |
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| satmd | oh, for directories, you'll need +x, too | 18:08 |
| marcus_ | So just checked Phoronix, and this came up "New to Wine 1.3.4 is support for right-to-left mirrored windows, Winelib now supporting the ARM architecture..." | 18:08 |
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| marcus_ | What does the last part affect? | 18:08 |
| satmd | probably you can compile windows-sourcecode against winelib to run on arm | 18:09 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: execute bit on directories mean the abilty to cd into them :P | 18:09 |
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| RST38h | Mohammad: go-rwx | 18:12 |
| MohammadAG | there's a number afaik | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: not exactly. execute bit on dir means you can read the dir content, like in ls | 18:13 |
| Termana | MohammadAG, correct, there are lots of numbers in the universe. | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | setting a dir -x sometimes comes handy, as world still can read files from that dir IF and only IF they know exact full path to file | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: number? which number? 700 or what? | 18:15 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: ah, so you can still cd into it? Okay, everyday you learn something new | 18:15 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: ah no, you can just read files off of it if you know exact path. | 18:16 |
| TiagoTiago | what happens to GUI file browsers/managers? | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir | 18:17 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: MohammadAG> bash: cd: mohammad/: Permission denied | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: wasn't that (if you know exact path) exactly what I told before? | 18:17 |
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| nomis | DocScrutinizer: every process has a working directory you can change with chdir(2). | 18:17 |
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| nomis | that is a process property, not really a shell thing. | 18:18 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: sorry I got confused, yes, this i exactly what you said | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, I can cd right now | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | nomis: ack | 18:18 |
| MohammadAG | I want other users to not be able to | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: RTFM | 18:18 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/270183/ | 18:19 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: 16:18 < DocScrutinizer> sivang: given cd probably is a shell local thing to set $CWD, I'd not expect any problems in cd'ing into a -x dir | 18:19 |
| * DocScrutinizer doesn't bite on unknown bait | 18:19 | |
| dRbiG | hmm, the maemo sdk image for virtualpc fails at step three :S seems not to setup the scratchbox properly | 18:19 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: chmod a-x $DIR; chmod u+x $DIR | 18:20 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: I am using this to protect backup directories together with making them readonly for everybody unless I specifically make them writeable for root | 18:21 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: (the files in them, that is) | 18:21 |
| lindi- | sivang: you need to create the file directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :) | 18:22 |
| lindi- | s/file // | 18:22 |
| infobot | lindi- meant: sivang: you need to create the directory initially with correct permissions. otherwise somebody can chdir there before you manage chmod it :) | 18:22 |
| sivang | lindi-: true, but no one can log into my machine other than me in a non catastrophic scenario | 18:23 |
| lindi- | ( mkdir -m og-rwx foo ) | 18:23 |
| sivang | lindi-: so challgne response passwords are disabled, and there only one account that uses SSH keys | 18:23 |
| sivang | lindi-: good note though :) | 18:23 |
| lindi- | sivang: indeed. it's a nasty limitation in *nix, you can't really revoke +x | 18:24 |
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| steinex | 4 | 18:29 |
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| Anunakin | can any talk me on how to use IRC plugin on n900, cant enter on rooms | 18:49 |
| Anunakin | ? | 18:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | lindi-: interesting thought :-) | 18:49 |
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| sivang | lindi-: why not ? if you create the this with -m og-rwx as you noted? | 18:50 |
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| Anunakin | xchat works | 18:50 |
| lindi- | sivang: well that's not revoking then | 18:51 |
| lindi- | sivang: revoking means that you previously granted access but want to not grant it anymore | 18:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer idly wonders if a 'cd foo/bar; mv .. boo' still will cause havoc to filesystem like it used to some decades ago :-P | 18:51 | |
| sivang | lindi-: well, but you can no? using chmod a-x and then chmod u+x ? | 18:52 |
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| korhojoa | DocScrutinizer, try it | 18:52 |
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| lindi- | sivang: that won't revoke access from people who have already used chdir to get to that dir | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol, I'm not that much interested in it, but I'm rather sure some patch has blocked such nasty thing years ago | 18:52 |
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| sivang | lindi-: ah right | 18:53 |
| sivang | lindi-: changes are not refelcted real time | 18:53 |
| lindi- | sivang: the only way to revoke is to reboot :) | 18:53 |
| sivang | lindi-: but that allows for the great concurrency *nix provide | 18:53 |
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| sivang | lindi-: so when one process accessed a folder, and nother one erased it, or chmod'd it, the former can still operate until it stops :) | 18:54 |
| sivang | lindi-: this does has rather some intereting side effects at time, but hey, nobdy's perfect | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lindi-: revoking any resources would rewuire some async error feedback making an e.g fopen() in an alien process fail arbitrary time after it originally succeeded. That's really a big thing, and basically a nightmare to cope with, from a app developer POV | 18:57 |
| * sivang yays, N900 is now with pr1.2 and all apps restored. | 18:58 | |
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| sivang | the backup app is nice, just needs to continue what it was planning to do when refusing to overwrite files, | 19:00 |
| sivang | not ask the specific file but rahter "thre's a more recent contact data, do you want to restoe the backed up anyways?" | 19:00 |
| sivang | and maybe add file backup as well integrated | 19:01 |
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| jpinx-eeepc | when I connect by gprs, which my provider has a proxy for, and then want to revert to my USB network through the gateway I have in the eeepc, I find that the proxy seems to still be in effect as I can not make http connections, but i can do stuff like irc yahoo etc on other ports. I fix it by cycling all the connections, but that is a real pain, is there any better way? | 19:20 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, I'd suggest set proxy to none when establishing usb networking | 19:27 |
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| sivang | hmm anyone seen his 3G network connection not available anymore from the network context menu after the upgrade? | 19:31 |
| * sivang thinks maybe he needs to do that carrier setup stupidity | 19:31 | |
| sivang | where they send you an SMS | 19:31 |
| sivang | with some details and you have to do something with it | 19:31 |
| keesj_ | the upgrade? | 19:32 |
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| sivang | keesj: ? | 19:33 |
| sivang | I just lost the "3G Network" connection but ironically I have an "MMS" one | 19:33 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: sure - but that is also a pain when I have to jump between them a lot | 19:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | jpinx-eeepc: so you got any better suggestion than to streamline the not really supported usb networking to make it fit into maemo's connection management scheme? | 19:36 |
| jpinx-eeepc | DocScrutinizer: I hadn't up till now, but if it needs doing I'll take a look | 19:36 |
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| sivang | what adds the network connections possible to the choose network menu? | 19:42 |
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| * sivang cries | 19:50 | |
| SpeedEvil | I think that's ICD | 19:50 |
| SpeedEvil | It's closed | 19:50 |
| sivang | ? | 19:51 |
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| piggz_ | hi, is there a problem with repository.maemo.org? | 19:59 |
| jacktheripper | isn't mmcblk0p2 only mounted through /home and /opt ? | 19:59 |
| jacktheripper | I umounted both and it's still saying Device or Resource busy. | 20:00 |
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| GAN900 | SpeedEvil, yes. | 20:10 |
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| juk | hey hey guys just ported catdoc! so exciting! considering how badly i was feeling yesterday, after messing with scratchbox I had to go for fresh install, was realy frustrating, but took advantage and upgraded to 10.10 yet another exciting event, everything is so shiny! and scratchbox install went smoothly, and emulation works, but first i have to start Xephyr and then from X86 box af-sb-init.sh start, i was wondering how actually I can interact in emulation, can I | 20:21 |
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| Qantourisc | Can anyone explain me why Android is more favored ? | 20:23 |
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| juk | Qantourisc: device chiper can run it, non reach people dominating | 20:24 |
| Qantourisc | "non reach people" ? | 20:24 |
| Qantourisc | "device chiper" ? | 20:24 |
| Pillum | "can" ? | 20:25 |
| juk | Qantourisc: sorry for mispell, i can repeat | 20:25 |
| Qantourisc | juk: yes please i cannot correct the mispells | 20:25 |
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| juk | Qantourisc: it can run on cheaper cost devices, and in my place price 300$ vs 500$ | 20:29 |
| Qantourisc | ooo nice | 20:29 |
| Qantourisc | still don't need a smartphone but i's getting closed, so reacheaching in advance | 20:29 |
| Qantourisc | and one of the weirder question will be how i do my IM :) | 20:30 |
| juk | Qantourisc: and in my place who can afford n900 is rich man | 20:30 |
| Qantourisc | :/ | 20:30 |
| Qantourisc | i don't even know if i want IM on my phone :) | 20:30 |
| juk | Qantourisc: still in doubt? | 20:30 |
| Qantourisc | in doubt over ? | 20:31 |
| juk | Qantourisc: you from Belgium or what? | 20:31 |
| Qantourisc | Correct | 20:31 |
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| juk | Qantourisc: so no wonder, Belgium vs Asia | 20:32 |
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| pupnik | how about a clamshell tablet with 2x 1280x600 screens hinged tightly to minimize bezel | 20:32 |
| Qantourisc | juk: ? | 20:32 |
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| Otacon22 | Hi all, I have a problem on my N900 and evry time that i try to add something into the calendar i get "error" | 20:34 |
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| juk | Qantourisc: ok, $43,533 vs $6,100, GDP per capita, Belgium vs China | 20:40 |
| Qantourisc | juk: serious price difference :) | 20:40 |
| juk | Qantourisc: what im talking about ;) | 20:41 |
| lcuk | Otacon22, hrm, thats not good | 20:42 |
| Otacon22 | :( | 20:42 |
| lcuk | pupnik, supposing you did, are we having any real gaming/keyboard controls on it too? | 20:42 |
| Otacon22 | The calendar opens, but when i try to add something inside i get "Error" | 20:42 |
| lcuk | Otacon22, do your existing cal entries work well? | 20:43 |
| lcuk | ie, edit an existing one | 20:43 |
| Otacon22 | wait | 20:43 |
| * lcuk makes a note in his calendar to wait | 20:43 | |
| Otacon22 | I don't have entries here | 20:44 |
| Otacon22 | (i don't know if it is because i've just flashed | 20:44 |
| lcuk | did you restore from backup after you flashed too? | 20:45 |
| Otacon22 | no | 20:45 |
| Otacon22 | hum, i have an old backup, I'm going to try to put on that | 20:45 |
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| pupnik | lcuk: i was wondering if something like that could be made useful and attractive, lcuk | 20:47 |
| lcuk | of course it could be pupnik | 20:48 |
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| lcuk | i have been holding pairs of devices together for yonks | 20:48 |
| pupnik | i now | 20:49 |
| pupnik | i don't think it's attractive with that much bezel | 20:49 |
| lcuk | understandably so | 20:49 |
| lcuk | pupnik, are you meeting up with Carol this weekend? I noticed she flew into Germany | 20:52 |
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| Qantourisc | Are there any phones where you can drop the latest ISO from android or maemo on without passing by your manufacturere ? | 20:57 |
| LjL | since when do android or maemo come as an ISO? :o | 20:58 |
| Qantourisc | or source, or build or whatever :) | 20:58 |
| Qantourisc | Still funny to see how companies use linux on there stuff, yet it's nothing like linux :/ | 21:00 |
| SpeedEvil | n900 is still only it | 21:01 |
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| user___ | hi all | 21:02 |
| Qantourisc | SpeedEvil: yes i know, and if you want to install, you need to download from nokia ? | 21:02 |
| pupnik | how are n900's selling? any guesses? | 21:02 |
| SpeedEvil | probably slower thanthey were. | 21:02 |
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| user___ | MohammadAG51: do you know how to enable 3g network after 1.2 upgrade ? this is sivang | 21:03 |
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| luke-jr_ | user___: it just worked for me | 21:04 |
| user___ | luke-jr_: hmm | 21:04 |
| user___ | i dont know why it disappeared | 21:05 |
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| user___ | but there was some mention of it but no solution in google | 21:05 |
| user___ | and i did chose latest firmware | 21:06 |
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| lcuk | user___, isn't there an app which forces 2g only? | 21:07 |
| lcuk | that you mightv forgotten about | 21:07 |
| Qantourisc | on most phones you can configure if it should use 3G 2G Edge, etc ... | 21:07 |
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| user___ | lcuk: i specifically set itt to 3g trnasport | 21:13 |
| lcuk | user___, http://maemo.org/packages/view/3g2g-mode-selection-applet/ | 21:13 |
| lcuk | ok | 21:13 |
| user___ | lcuk: what odd is that MMS is there and i did not add fMMS back | 21:18 |
| Qantourisc | I think i'd best wait till netbooks become phones :) | 21:21 |
| ShadowJK | N900 and freerunner I'd guess | 21:21 |
| ShadowJK | but freerunner presents its own challenges :D | 21:21 |
| ShadowJK | maybe nexus one too | 21:21 |
| ShadowJK | but, drivers drivers drivers | 21:21 |
| Qantourisc | drivers is there own fault | 21:22 |
| Qantourisc | if you make a chip, write your drivers foss | 21:22 |
| Qantourisc | and no wories ever again | 21:22 |
| ShadowJK | sure, but from a user's point of view, freerunner and N900 are probably in the best driver position :/ | 21:23 |
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| l0up | anyone using pymedia on n900? i cant get the setup script to detect ogg, vorbis, mp3lame, alsa etc | 21:35 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: no but i'm familiar with "crap" in general :) | 21:38 |
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| Qantourisc | anything specific it says ? | 21:39 |
| jacktheripper | e2fsck tells me 'device or resource busy' while I totally umounted everything relate to /home and /opt | 21:39 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: did you use umount -l ? (lazy) ? | 21:40 |
| l0up | quanttrom: just says it cannot detect anything and asks if i want to continue | 21:40 |
| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, yes | 21:40 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: lazy unmounting might still leave the FS mounted | 21:40 |
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| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: it makes it inaccessable for new programs and request, not the ones that are open :/ | 21:40 |
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| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, can I find what's opening the device ? I already tried fuser and lsof. | 21:41 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: lsof and fuser reveiled nothing in use ? | 21:41 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: also if ther eis anything mounted in /home or /opt it's an issue | 21:42 |
| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, lsof did reveal stuff before the lazy unmounting. fuser never showed me anything. | 21:42 |
| l0up | Qantourisc: maybe i should have the devlibs installed? but i cant install libogg-dev, says that libc6-dev is needed but not installable | 21:42 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: not sure | 21:42 |
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| l0up | and libvorbis-dev says it needs libogg-dev | 21:42 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: but it can't detec alsa either ? | 21:43 |
| Qantourisc | or is used oss ? | 21:43 |
| l0up | nope | 21:43 |
| l0up | it says "Using UNIX configuration..." | 21:43 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: i'd first try something less complicated that python first | 21:45 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: try mpd :) | 21:45 |
| l0up | hmm | 21:45 |
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| l0up | i need to play and possibly record sounds with my python/pyqt app | 21:46 |
| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, I tried killing the processes using the device. One of them was browserd (it looks important yes). Killing it just brought it back again. When I kept repeating `pkill`, the phone rebooted. Does that mean I can never unmount /home successfully ? | 21:47 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: if you need to do maintaince i recommend 2 possible ways | 21:48 |
| kerio | considering /home holds... half of the binaries? i'd say no | 21:48 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: method 1) Boot into a sort of resque mode | 21:48 |
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| sivang | kerio: the dmse rebooted the device? | 21:48 |
| jacktheripper | thought about that, does the N900 even have one ? | 21:48 |
| dolp | what's the best way to make my widget to do something everytime SMS is sent? any suggestions what to look for? | 21:48 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: method 2) Connect to the computer as a block device, giving full acess to the memory by your computer (if your phone supports this) | 21:49 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: and then do the fs2chk from your computer | 21:49 |
| kerio | Qantourisc: huh? | 21:49 |
| sivang | dolp: there is an app tat responds to calls, you can use what's there to write it to you widget | 21:49 |
| kerio | Qantourisc: /home/ is never unmounted on the n900 | 21:49 |
| Qantourisc | kerio: hes trying to fs2sch some volumes | 21:49 |
| sivang | dolp: pycallblocker is the app'sname , available from extras-testing | 21:49 |
| dolp | sivang: thanks.. i'll take a look at it | 21:50 |
| Qantourisc | kerio: that's why your need some sort of resque mode, or attach it to your computer as a "usb-disk" (without booting the OS) if the device supports it | 21:50 |
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| kerio | what device? | 21:50 |
| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, I'm actually trying to resize /home. I'm doing the whole e2fsck thing because I lazily unmounted the volume. (parted says it didn't unmount cleanly) | 21:50 |
| kerio | aren't we talking about the n900 | 21:50 |
| jacktheripper | yes n900 | 21:50 |
| kerio | yeah, ass rage only works for MyDocs | 21:50 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: if it's ext ... you might be able to do a online resize (if you want it bigger) | 21:51 |
| * RST38h yawns and wonders what to do tonight | 21:51 | |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: i read someone where you had to push a button while connected to the pc while booting so you could update/flash the device, the same method might be used for this but instead of updating messing with it | 21:51 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, tsk tsk, you need to be aware which order you are unmounting things - /opt is a mountbind to /home/opt - so if you are trying to unmount home first won't it already be in use/ | 21:52 |
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| kerio | umounting /opt/ will not go well imo | 21:53 |
| lcuk | nope, but he can always reflash | 21:53 |
| kerio | if that's an option he can use it right now | 21:54 |
| Qantourisc | source: "http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware" | 21:54 |
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| Qantourisc | 1) Ensure the battery is fully charged. | 21:54 |
| kerio | changing the text file in the eMMC image to make /home/ bigger | 21:54 |
| Qantourisc | 2) Unplug the USB cable if present, and switch off the device. | 21:54 |
| Qantourisc | 3) N900: While holding the u key, connect the N900 to your computer via USB. Wait until you see a dim screen on your N900 with a Nokia logo in the middle of your screen with an USB icon in the top right corner. | 21:54 |
| Qantourisc | Note: If the USB logo does not appear, and the device turns off - ensure the battery is charged by connecting to the wall charger for an hour and try again. | 21:55 |
| Qantourisc | 4) You don't need to continue to hold any buttons once flashing starts. | 21:55 |
| Qantourisc | hmmm once the flashing starts ? | 21:55 |
| lcuk | Qantourisc, GTFO the wiki exists so that lot doesn't need to be pasted | 21:55 |
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| Qantourisc | lcuk: well it's not a exact copy | 21:55 |
| Qantourisc | i skipped a few lines | 21:55 |
| Qantourisc | because it's to update | 21:55 |
| Qantourisc | but if my huntch is right | 21:56 |
| Qantourisc | the above will give you access to the disk | 21:56 |
| Qantourisc | making whatever jacktheripper is trieing to do easy | 21:56 |
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| jacktheripper | I hope so. Lemme try. | 21:56 |
| jacktheripper | and thanks | 21:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools | 21:56 |
| The|Avatar | Hi! | 21:56 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: ofcours it might not give you access to the disk but only some flasher thing :) you'll have to try and see | 21:56 |
| RST38h | wazd. | 21:57 |
| Qantourisc | jacktheripper: make sure the backup whaver you need back | 21:57 |
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| jacktheripper | Qantourisc, actually, I think so instructions are only used with flasher | 21:59 |
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| jacktheripper | s/so/those | 21:59 |
| Qantourisc | pitty :/ | 21:59 |
| Qantourisc | without some sort of rescue mode or direct disk access this might get tricky | 21:59 |
| The|Avatar | Is anyone here, who could give me some hints as to why my maemo-sdk installation refuses to start hildon? | 22:00 |
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| lcuk | The|Avatar, you will have to talk more than that, first time installation? non standard host OS? never installed it? | 22:01 |
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| l0up | Qantourisc: is it possible to play multiple sounds at the same time with mpd? | 22:01 |
| Qantourisc | no | 22:01 |
| Qantourisc | but it plays over alsa,oss and plays ogg,mp3,flac,wav,... | 22:02 |
| Qantourisc | so it should be a good test | 22:02 |
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| Qantourisc | l0up: mpd is a media-library-player | 22:02 |
| l0up | yeah | 22:02 |
| Qantourisc | l0up: i only recommended it because it's a C program with minimal layers allowing you to hopefully find the issue | 22:02 |
| Qantourisc | it's also one of the smaller examples i could think of | 22:03 |
| l0up | ah, i see | 22:03 |
| The|Avatar | lcuk: of course. Second tima actually. Host OS is Kubuntu. Installation wnet without error so far. The toolchains work as well. Start of Xephyr works. ... | 22:03 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, if you recall developers of old, they used punch card systems and pre-wrote (carefully) their software before running it. writing a script to do something at system start could be considered a similar task ;) also, there are ways to shut down most of the apps on the system without a reboot | 22:04 |
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| The|Avatar | lcuk: but when i start af-sb-init.sh start, i get lots of error...mostly like "ailed to connect to socket /var/run/dbus/system_bus_socket: No such file or directory" | 22:04 |
| Qantourisc | after a lot of reading i decided vs android or maemo | 22:04 |
| lcuk | The|Avatar, so the scratchbox install and all toolchains sdks and everything is on and you can build stuff, you just can't run the emulation thingy | 22:05 |
| jacktheripper | lcuk, including browserd ? :D do you have any idea what it does when the browser is not running (if it's even related to it) ? | 22:05 |
| The|Avatar | lcuk: right | 22:05 |
| lcuk | jacktheripper, at the very least browserd is waiting | 22:06 |
| lcuk | The|Avatar, I have never really run anything in the xephyr, but pastebin the errors it gives | 22:07 |
| lcuk | perhaps someone else who does will recognise it | 22:07 |
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| Qantourisc | meego looks promossing | 22:11 |
| The|Avatar | lcuk: http://pastebin.com/miQVBuYp | 22:12 |
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| Qantourisc | did anyone notise a "closeing source" trend for maemo ? | 22:15 |
| Qantourisc | if not i'm certain of my choice for the future | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: what will happen with meego on nokia is probably that they'll stick their apps and differentation on top of it, all of it closed source, while contributing to the common platform | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | Qantourisc: contributing to the common platform isn't a small thing though even though it sounds like it :) | 22:17 |
| GAN900 | Qantourisc, it's one of those sick "where're more open here, but less here" trends. | 22:17 |
| Qantourisc | hmmmm | 22:18 |
| Qantourisc | android i consider "closed" | 22:19 |
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| Qantourisc | no X11, no default root support, etc | 22:19 |
| _llll_ | maemo is pretty much in no-one's future, right? | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | _llll_: pretty much | 22:19 |
| Qantourisc | "in no-one's future" ? | 22:19 |
| _llll_ | if you wnt a long-term platform, it isnt maemo | 22:20 |
| Qantourisc | _llll_: so what you recommend ? :) | 22:20 |
| * Stskeeps 'd say meego | 22:20 | |
| Qantourisc | custom cook ? :) | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | simply because it has the most potential for actual open devices | 22:20 |
| GAN900 | Qantourisc, well, MeeGo is certainly better than that. | 22:20 |
| GAN900 | Qantourisc, the closed stupidity comes from process stuff, and vendor differentiation. | 22:21 |
| Qantourisc | well meego sort of is maemo successor as i read it ? | 22:21 |
| GAN900 | Sort of | 22:21 |
| Viiru | Getting open hardware would be best. | 22:21 |
| _llll_ | dont know, meego is interesting. i'm yet to be convinced until i see a device actually using it though | 22:21 |
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| _llll_ | but my n900 does what i need it to do well enough | 22:21 |
| GAN900 | Though MeeGo seems to not want to be dirtied with too close of an association. | 22:21 |
| Qantourisc | yea, for me it's to early for a smart phone | 22:21 |
| Viiru | After that happens the rest doesn't matter. The community can sort out the software stack to run, as was done on the desktop. | 22:21 |
| Qantourisc | the market is still relatiliy crap | 22:21 |
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| Stskeeps | Viiru: i'm pretty happy with the fact i can make phone calls and use a modern UI with redistributable 3d accelerator libs, battery management, wifi and bt firmware.. | 22:21 |
| _llll_ | im more interested in a better battery than a better os | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | Viiru: that's pretty open | 22:21 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, redistributable? | 22:22 |
| Qantourisc | _llll_: batteries are a hard thing to improve | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yes, hell froze over | 22:22 |
| Qantourisc | _llll_: usually it's hardware and software draining it :) | 22:22 |
| Viiru | Stskeeps: "Redistributable" is enough for open? Actual openness doesn't matter? | 22:22 |
| lcuk | so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen? | 22:22 |
| lcuk | or some such | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | Viiru: considering the current market in ARM, it's good enough for me | 22:22 |
| lcuk | or is it just "distributable with meego" | 22:22 |
| Viiru | Stskeeps: Isn't my idea of open hardware. | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | Viiru: alright then, but it's a big step | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: if we cut out 'luke-jr' of the equation, then yes - we can't do 'distributable with meego' cos repo.meego.com is mirrored on kernel.org | 22:23 |
| Viiru | Stskeeps: If you say so. I don't really care how the closed 3d-drivers and assorted firmware get on the device. | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: luke-jr would never take dirty blobs | 22:24 |
| lcuk | ok Stskeeps - but the point reamins | 22:24 |
| Qantourisc | 'lcuk: so does this mean that luke-jr_'s dream of 3d in gentoo can happen?' ? | 22:24 |
| lcuk | is it redistributable fully as in they can be used and included (for instance) on debian | 22:24 |
| lcuk | I know purity issues etc | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yes, go read the licenses | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | nokia bits are distributable for non-commercial purposes | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | which makes sense | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | sgx isn't limited like that | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | just for TI hardware | 22:25 |
| lcuk | hmm | 22:25 |
| lcuk | "non-commercial" is still a limitation though | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | but it saves worse conditions | 22:25 |
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| lcuk | indeed :) its a good result from your time with the vendor social contract stuff | 22:26 |
| Viiru | I don't consider the difference between "I downloaded these binary blobs of the net" and "I ripped these binary blobs out of the software that came with the phone" to be in any way meaningful. | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just happy to be making my own open images i can redistribute without getting sued | 22:26 |
| lcuk | ok, so thats sgx | 22:26 |
| GAN900 | Viiru, hehe. | 22:26 |
| lcuk | now if someone wants to post a meego image themselves | 22:26 |
| lcuk | is that feasible now too? | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yes | 22:27 |
| lcuk | getting better :D | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | I think that depends a lot on who you're associated with (i.e., meego.com). | 22:27 |
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| lcuk | that shouldnt matter should it GAN900 | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | s/i.e./e.g. | 22:27 |
| lcuk | someone gets meego running on XYZ hardware | 22:27 |
| GAN900 | lcuk, @ Viiru | 22:27 |
| lcuk | and wants to post image to help others | 22:27 |
| sivang | http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/05/25/nokia-n900-software-update-release-1-2/ this is Fenec and not microb right? | 22:28 |
| Qantourisc | meego image for n900 is avaible | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, on repo.meego.com | 22:28 |
| * lcuk will do more reading next week in work time, I am offski for now | 22:29 | |
| sivang | also, my firmware bin file has SE in the file name, does that mean something? | 22:29 |
| sivang | argh, too late, I have to run. Be back later, sorry for asking and going away. | 22:29 |
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| lcuk | gnite folks, enjoy your beers \o | 22:30 |
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| nox- | moin | 22:34 |
| _llll_ | Qantourisc: stabbing oneself in the eye is also available, is meego any less painful yet? | 22:36 |
| Qantourisc | _llll_: doubt it :D | 22:37 |
| _llll_ | hehe | 22:37 |
| Qantourisc | i just hope it will be ready by the time i need a smatphone :) | 22:38 |
| Qantourisc | and also hope there are cheaper smarthpones then :) | 22:38 |
| Qantourisc | right now 500€ =) | 22:38 |
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| _llll_ | my n900 was free with a contract | 22:40 |
| Qantourisc | oO ? | 22:40 |
| Qantourisc | what contract ? | 22:40 |
| Jartza | My N900 was also "free" | 22:45 |
| nox- | not that you dont pay the price back anyway with such contracts :) | 22:45 |
| nox- | just in monthly increments | 22:46 |
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| nox- | and i just looked, i payed ~ eur 400 | 22:49 |
| Qantourisc | hehe | 22:49 |
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| Qantourisc | in belgium how expensive is gprs ? | 22:50 |
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| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: the blobs are distributable without some EULA clickthrough or such nonsense? | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: yes | 23:16 |
| kthomas_vh | MohammadAG, still interested in the n810? | 23:16 |
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| MohammadAG | kthomas_vh, a bit short on money, so I can't buy it atm :( | 23:16 |
| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: where at? | 23:17 |
| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: or would I need to put them somewhere? | 23:17 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: you okay with rpm format? | 23:17 |
| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: rather not :P | 23:17 |
| kthomas_vh | alas, I'll list it on yad2, probably get more there :) | 23:17 |
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| luke-jr_ | then I need to add DEPEND=rpm2targz | 23:17 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/non-oss/repos/armv7l/packages/armv7l/ | 23:18 |
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| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: no upstream w/ proper tgz or such? | 23:19 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: well, TI's own dist or srpm contents | 23:19 |
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| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: where is TI's copy? | 23:20 |
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| luke-jr_ | Stskeeps: xorg-x11-drv-fbdev-sgx isn't open? so no using it without MeeGo builds of X.org? :/ | 23:21 |
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| luke-jr_ | hrm, come to think of it, that'll be a problem with the GLES libs too, won't it? … | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: it's open | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr_: for technical reasons we have it in non-oss | 23:22 |
| luke-jr_ | i c | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | srpm should be there, if not, it's a bug | 23:23 |
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| luke-jr_ | it's not in that dir you linked, no | 23:23 |
| luke-jr_ | what about ABI issues on the other libs? | 23:23 |
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| Stskeeps | got a recent glibc? | 23:24 |
| luke-jr_ | dunno, that's the problem | 23:24 |
| timeless_pidgin | Hello world | 23:24 |
| luke-jr_ | Gentoo could be any glibc :P | 23:24 |
| luke-jr_ | or uclibc | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 23:24 |
| luke-jr_ | or who knows | 23:24 |
| luke-jr_ | more liekly a problem is GCC version | 23:25 |
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| Stskeeps | we're on 4.5 | 23:25 |
| luke-jr_ | 4.3 is not ABI compatible with 4.4, and neither of those with 4.5 | 23:25 |
| * timeless_pidgin is about to book an easyjet flight out of manchester | 23:25 | |
| luke-jr_ | Gentoo stable is 4.4 | 23:25 |
| luke-jr_ | testing is probably 4.5 | 23:25 |
| timeless_pidgin | Gcc.. Linux.. Abi... Very funny | 23:25 |
| luke-jr_ | tbh, I don't know *any* solution to that short of distributing only code | 23:25 |
| timeless_pidgin | 4.5.0 is of course broken | 23:25 |
| luke-jr_ | even if someone built binaries for each combination, Gentoo has no real way to use them properly | 23:26 |
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| timeless_pidgin | Distribute .dll's | 23:26 |
| timeless_pidgin | Let people use winelib to import your portable code | 23:26 |
| timeless_pidgin | Use any compiler you like. | 23:27 |
| timeless_pidgin | Let anyone use any compiler they like | 23:27 |
| timeless_pidgin | Clean. Simple. Hassle free. | 23:27 |
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| timeless_pidgin | Objections come from the NIH crowd | 23:27 |
| luke-jr_ | hmm | 23:27 |
| luke-jr_ | that's an idea, sortof | 23:27 |
| luke-jr_ | a .a with some wrappers that use asm to call the real funcs… | 23:28 |
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| nox- | so dll.s made with diff mingw gcc versions are compatible? | 23:29 |
| luke-jr_ | didn't mean actual dlls :p | 23:29 |
| nox- | heh ok | 23:29 |
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| absic | hi. i'm new here. i'd like | 23:33 |
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| absic | sorry | 23:35 |
| absic | i'd like to get some help. I'm interested in N900 | 23:35 |
| absic | but am concerned about Nokia's shift to MeeGo. Would you say I should wait for a MeeGo device? | 23:36 |
| timeless_pidgin | Nox: if you provide proper dll runtimes, and properly manage memory, yes | 23:36 |
| timeless_pidgin | Absic: i'm using my n900 right now, in Liverpool | 23:36 |
| timeless_pidgin | I couldn't use a MeeGo device today. It doesn't exist. | 23:36 |
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| timeless_pidgin | If you want to wait for an unspecified amount of time for a future product because you have no real pressing need | 23:37 |
| timeless_pidgin | Then waiting makes sense | 23:37 |
| timeless_pidgin | If you have a pressing need | 23:37 |
| timeless_pidgin | Then waiting doesn't make sense | 23:37 |
| luke-jr_ | absic: as timeless hints, it really depends on what you want | 23:37 |
| timeless_pidgin | You're probably somewhere in between | 23:37 |
| jacekowski | nox-: as long as their api is compatible | 23:38 |
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| luke-jr_ | absic: care to mention why you might want a N900? | 23:38 |
| absic | timeless_pidgin: Thanks. I think I'll just go ahead and get it | 23:38 |
| nox- | jacekowski, nice | 23:38 |
| timeless_pidgin | Nox: basically dll's export functions according to a standardize mangling scheme | 23:38 |
| nox- | ah didnt know that :) | 23:39 |
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| * nox- more a *ix person as you might have guessed... | 23:39 | |
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| luke-jr_ | absic: often people who don't have a N900 have misconceptions on what it is capable of, FWIW | 23:39 |
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| jacekowski | well, same on *nix | 23:39 |
| timeless_pidgin | You can of course write a dll that *doesn't* work well | 23:39 |
| absic | I like that it is a phone and runs Linux. I am a newbie on the Linux side of things, and I intend to stay by Tux | 23:39 |
| luke-jr_ | timeless_pidgin: none of these ABI problems have anything to do with mangling | 23:39 |
| timeless_pidgin | But that's independent of everything else. | 23:39 |
| jacekowski | but on *nix people tend to break API a lot often | 23:39 |
| luke-jr_ | absic: N900 doesn't run Linux any more than Joe Android Phone | 23:40 |
| jacekowski | so if you compile old source with new gcc it will be compatible | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | IMO, it does. | 23:40 |
| timeless_pidgin | Nox: basically you'd want your .dll to link against the msvc6 crt, or to statically link a crt | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | You can get root from the default repo, and then install GCC just by adding another repo. | 23:41 |
| luke-jr_ | absic: at least not with Maemo; MeeGo might change that | 23:41 |
| absic | timeless_pidgin: could you please alaborate a bit on what you mean about "misconceptions" | 23:41 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: it's closer to gnu/linux than android | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Way closer than android | 23:41 |
| luke-jr_ | absic: while Nokia isn't officially supporting MeeGo on N900, they *are* paying people to port it | 23:41 |
| luke-jr_ | jacekowski: X11 isn't GNU | 23:41 |
| jacekowski | yeah, but you have standard libc | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | gnu libc | 23:42 |
| timeless_pidgin | If it statically links against a crt, then it doesn't have problems (in general, minus ensuring you do memory management correctly) | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | with some gnu tools | 23:42 |
| luke-jr_ | X11 is basically the only notable difference between Android and Maemo | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | and gnu stuff | 23:42 |
| luke-jr_ | jacekowski: Android doesn't use glibc? | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: and libc | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | nope | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | no glibc on android | 23:42 |
| luke-jr_ | o | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | no libc at all | 23:42 |
| luke-jr_ | wtf? | 23:42 |
| jacekowski | they use their own incompatible implementation | 23:42 |
| luke-jr_ | gotta have *some* libc | 23:43 |
| jacekowski | called bionic | 23:43 |
| luke-jr_ | busybox requires a libc | 23:43 |
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| luke-jr_ | absic: lots of people seem to think N900/Maemo is open source. in reality, it's like Mac OS X | 23:43 |
| jacekowski | it's not as bad | 23:44 |
| b-man` | luke-jr: android doesn't use busybox by default | 23:44 |
| luke-jr_ | absic: less than half of Maemo is open source, mainly just the parts required to be open source legally | 23:44 |
| luke-jr_ | b-man`: what's teh CLI then? | 23:44 |
| b-man` | luke-jr: android it uses it's own called "toolbox' :P | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: there isn't any | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: not by defaul | 23:44 |
| b-man` | built on BSD stuff | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: and stuff that runs on that phone is ported to bionic | 23:44 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: or running on dalvik | 23:44 |
| absic | luke-jr: this is interesting information indeed | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | luke-jr_: dsme is open source | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | modest is open source | 23:45 |
| jacekowski | parts of hildon | 23:46 |
| jacekowski | hmm, what else | 23:46 |
| absic | too bad Swaziland gets devices like these last :( | 23:48 |
| pupnik | someone has to be last | 23:48 |
| timeless_pidgin | Fwiw, a lot of the stuff that isn't open source isn't worth opening. | 23:50 |
| luke-jr_ | jacekowski: DSME is only open source after Nokia stripped it of any actual functionality | 23:51 |
| timeless_pidgin | The calculator for instance is closed source iir | 23:51 |
| timeless_pidgin | But you really don't want to see it | 23:51 |
| luke-jr_ | lol | 23:51 |
| timeless_pidgin | Anyone can make a better one | 23:51 |
| timeless_pidgin | And starting from the maemo one would be like starting 500m behind the starting line for a 100m race | 23:52 |
| timeless_pidgin | Possibly drunk, and likely dizzy | 23:52 |
| johnx | in my experience, the biggest problem was getting it to other devices with a small team | 23:53 |
| johnx | it doesn't matter that the calculator sucks, but not having one is lame, and re-coding it from scratch is a waste of time when the team is only about 3 people | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | calculator engine is open source | 23:54 |
| timeless_pidgin | In our case, it'd have been better to find an html one and use that | 23:54 |
| johnx | both valid points, but I was using it as a general example ;) | 23:55 |
| timeless_pidgin | Cost: 1 man, 1 week to find it. 1 man, 2 weeks to make it internationalized | 23:55 |
| *** kuuntelija has joined #maemo | 23:55 | |
| timeless_pidgin | Translating it is handled by another team | 23:56 |
| *** valgrind has joined #maemo | 23:57 | |
| valgrind | hi there... | 23:57 |
| valgrind | can i ask a question about the 770 here ?? | 23:57 |
| SpeedEvil | yes | 23:57 |
| timeless_pidgin | Johnx: the point is that we sent some team probably of 3 people to make the theming disaster of a calculator. And managed to introduce some calculator bugs | 23:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Most of us are here for hte n900 though - I don't know how many have a clue | 23:58 |
| timeless_pidgin | And botch the ui | 23:58 |
| valgrind | trying to connect a usb keyboard. tried 2008HE. using xterm to try to switch to host mode. no luck. | 23:58 |
| valgrind | ooh ?? right. | 23:58 |
| valgrind | well.. downgraded now. | 23:58 |
| valgrind | and the n900 ?? no host mode.. ?? right ?? | 23:58 |
| johnx | timeless_pidgin, I actually liked the UI ... :P | 23:59 |
| pupnik | valgrind: thinkoutside stowaway works pretty well here on 770. | 23:59 |
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